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How Much Do You Think I Deserve To Keep?

September 19, 2011 by  

How Much Do You Think I Deserve To Keep?

One of the best questions ever asked in a political debate was posed by a young man at last week’s GOP debate in Tampa, Fla.

He asked, “Out of every dollar that I earn, how much of that do you think I deserve to keep?” Moderator Wolf Blitzer directed the question to former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman, who said: “…for you we leave it at 8 percent, 14 percent, 24 percent.” Then Blitzer moved the discussion to corporate tax breaks.

The original question wasn’t posed to any of the other candidates. Why? And why did they not come back to answer the question later?

Because the questioner touched on a subject sensitive to the elites. They think the money we earn is theirs and we should keep only what they, in their infinite mercy, allow us to have.

Under the Law of Moses, 10 percent was enough for the Creator. Under the law of the political elites, it is 30 percent, 40 percent, 50 percent and more if they decide they want it.

The American people have been sold a bill of goods. They have been conditioned to believe that government is necessary to thwart all the evils in society. Those evils must be confronted by a myriad of alphabet soup agencies like the EPA, FDA, USDA, OSHA, NLRB, HHS, HUD, DOE (both energy and education), and on and on, ad infinitum.

To fund those agencies that keep us safe, Americans are told, more of their hard-earned wealth is required of them. Thus, the leviathan grows. The people grumble, but their grumbling is squelched by the elites and the majority who remind them the government is only acting in their best interests.

Any talk of possibly scaling back the growth of those agencies is quickly suppressed. If the budgets of those agencies are touched, we are told, pollution will flow uncontrollably from industry, the water will be poisoned, our food will kill us, terrorists will run amok in our streets and the greedy capitalists will abuse us. No rational discussion of alternatives is possible because people automatically default to government.

A very recent example of this tactic comes from Representative Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill). She said:

I’ll put it this way. You don’t deserve to keep all of it and it’s not a question of deserving because what government is, is those things that we decide to do together. And there are many things that we decide to do together like have our national security. Like have police and fire. What about the people that work at the National Institute of Health who are looking for a cure for cancer.

This is the standard fallback. Thus, those agencies grow into monstrous bureaucracies that oppress Americans under the guise of keeping them safe. Those bureaucracies consume everything in their paths: innovation, spirit, can-do attitudes, the family structure, societal mores and capital.

Taxes, the elites say, are necessary to fund the government. That is Orwellian doublespeak. Taxes are used by the elites to control our consumption and redistribute the volume of money. The Federal Reserve floods the market with electronic blips and green strips of paper it calls “dollars.” We use those dollars to buy things we need. The price of those things goes up as more and more money is dumped into the system. (Actually, prices don’t go up. The reality is that those dollars are each worth less as more and more are introduced into circulation, so more and more dollars are required to buy the same goods.)

President James A. Garfield said, “Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce.” The elites understand this. The American people do not.

In a speech before the American Bar Association in 1946, then-Federal Reserve Chairman Beardsley Ruml said, “The necessity for a government to tax in order to maintain both its independence and solvency is true for State and local governments, but it is not true for a national government.”

How can this be?

It’s simple logic — so simple that most can’t fathom it. The Federal government can and does print money to infinity. Therefore, the idea that the Federal government needs your tax dollars to operate is a fallacy, a lie.

Ask yourself this question: If I can print all the money I want to use as I want, will I have debt or ever face default? The answer is obvious.

Now, President Barack Obama is proposing a “new” plan. In reality it is an old plan, one that has failed before if success is measured in a way that helps the people. He intends to transfer more wealth from the middle class to his elite partners in crime. This is theft from the American people to those who have bought themselves a seat at the elite table.

It involves squeezing more money out those who work. The plan will be “paid for,” Obama promises. How? By raising taxes and closing loopholes, while all along taxes are already going up to “pay for” Obamacare and the value of our “dollars” is going down because of QE1 and QE2 and TARP and stimulus and bailouts.

According to the Bible, after the death of King Solomon, “… Jeroboam and all the assembly of Israel came and spoke to Rehoboam, saying, ‘Your father made our yoke hard; now therefore lighten the hard service of your father and his heavy yoke which he put on us, and we will serve you.’”

But Rehoboam rejected the advice of the elders to lighten the yoke of the people and win them over. Instead, he listened to the advice of the young men who said, “But you shall speak to them, ‘My little finger is thicker than my father’s loins! Whereas my father loaded you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke; my father disciplined you with whips, but I will discipline you with scorpions.’” (1 Kings 12)

The majority of the people abandoned Rehoboam, and Israel was split in two.

Former President George W. Bush put a heavy yoke on the people. Obama has added to the yoke. The result is a record number of poor people: 46 million Americans are now considered poor, 22 percent of all American children are living in poverty, unemployment is at 9.1 percent.

The people are rejecting Obama. His disapproval ratings are historic. In New York, a little-known and underfunded Republican beat a Democrat for a House seat held by Democrats for almost 100 years. It has nothing to do with Obama, his minions say. Move along. Nothing to see here. Doublespeak.

But take care before crowing and supporting the Republican elite. They are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Though not as brazen as Schakowsky, they believe as she does. That is why you are not hearing any of the GOP candidates talk about cutting the size of government. None, that is, save one. And it’s not Governor Rick Perry, former Governors Mitt Romney or Jon Huntsman. It’s not Representative Michele Bachmann, who wants to eliminate whole unConstitutional government agencies. Nor is it former Speaker Newt Gingrich or former Senator Rick Santorum. It isn’t even Herman Cain. They believe that what you earn is theirs, except what they decree you should have.

Listen carefully to their words. Do you hear them speak about anything beyond a “Washington cut,” which doesn’t really mean cut?

Contrary to what everyone thinks, printing more and more paper money does not create abundance. It creates more scarcity. Everybody has less and less. Greed is the endgame of a paper-money system, and it brings with it a moral breakdown with the collapse of the rule of law.

In short, paper-money debasement destroys the soul of society. But the longer the elites can keep this a secret, the longer they can maintain their hold on power.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Raggs

    What do you think that this is about?

    It is easy to control people when you control their food.
    It’s all about CONTROL folks!

  • home boy

    for all you boys and girls that where not paying attention last thursday and friday, the fed has given 11 billion to the imf ( international monetary fund) togive to greece. thanks tim geithner .

  • Jack

    You have all missed the one we need. Palin for president!!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Unfortunately, I don’t think Sarah will run. She has been my choice all along.

  • Chris

    At least Herman Cain’s “9/9/9 Plan” seriously addresses tax relief for citizens, albeit keeping government revenue roughly the same.

  • Labs111

    The basis of creating income for the nation based primarily on the taxing of INCOME is a huge problem. We should all be able to keep 100% of what we produce in income (including corporations)! The nations only income should come solely from a tax on consumption. This will take the “money power” away from crooked politicians. For more income to flow to government we would have to “consume more” as a nation. This would provide more jobs and more consumers. Tie this to a mandatory “Balanced Budget Ammendment” and we will have widespread properity in this country once more.

    • DaveH

      Before the 16th Amendment was passed, the taxes for the support of the Federal Government came from the States based on their population size. Essentially, it was a True Flat Tax, except the individual States could decide how to extract it from their citizens. That was a wise provision, and we should return to it.
      Ideally every adult should be liable for the same amount of Federal tax (a True Flat Tax), with the possible exception of those Federal services which could easily be allocated to the actual users of those services. That way, every adult would have skin in the game (as it should be), and you can bet that the size of the Federal Government would be decreased rapidly as the adults who then had to pay equally would demand much more bang for their buck.

  • Watchman on the wall

    If you look at what Gov has been doing the last decade from another viewpoint, it all makes sense. The USA has been the worlds policeman for a long time, but for the 1 world order to be established, the policemen needs to be taken out. This is being done economically, by a purposeful crashing of our currency. We CANNOT in any way pay the promises to our elderly in SS, Medicare & Medicade, the bill is beyond what we make as a nation. What to do? Crash the dollar/economy and hit the “reset” button. We will not be the worlds policeman after we collapse, then the NWO can move forward. If YOU wanted to crash the US currency, what would YOU do? Exactly what the Gov has been doing. Get ready for it, prepare now.

  • transponder

    The Dems have murdered over 55,000,000 tax payers, customers, employees, employers, business owners, Social Security payers, Medicare payers, etc. How many of these 55 million would have found the cure for cancer and a whole slew of other problems? How many would have invented such things as the mythical Warp Drive? The Dems and all who support abortion are enemies of this population, country and of GOD!

    • Labs111

      True. Abortion is the number one national and worlwide crime, fashioned by greedy individuals to control population and demographics. At the current rates of abortions Americans will become extinct as a people, while the Muslim world (who does not permit abortions) will rule America by becoming the majority population. Are you ready for Sharia Law?

    • Angel Wannabe

      transponder so true, I know many talented folks holding back entrepenureship, because they don’t want to be forced into giving little less than half of they’re earnings. I say its time to starve Washington out!

    • professor

      We couldn’t support another 55,000,000 on Medicaid…or any of the social programs! Sad, but half of this country doesn’t pay taxes, they are sucking up free money and benefits paid for by those brave individuals that are still willing to work and support them!

      People that work are drowning in debt, trying to stay in their homes while the muslim wants to raise taxes.. Don’t think that the tax hike will only be on the rich. The rich are the ones creating jobs and the products that everyone else buys. When taxes go up, those increases are passed on to all the customers, not just rich customers…. Higher taxes on the rich effects everyone in this country that buys a loaf of bread or a gallon of gas!

      • eddie47d

        “The rich are the ones creating jobs” That is only partially true and the rest is a fairy tale. Edison wasn’t rich at first neither was Gates or Jobs. Average Americans come up with inventions after years of struggle and then become rich. Few people with lots of money ever invent anything or create employment with money alone. We have a multi-trillion dollar economy and the wealthy are not opening up or creating new jobs. It’s the little guy working in his garage or in a lab who actually creates those jobs. The wealthy usually sit back and make money off of money and build bigger houses,buy up land and pad their bank accounts. They are not saving America they are sucking it dry for personal gain. They truly do become the Elites and control each and every one of us.

      • Angel Wannabe

        eddie47d, I gotta ask, do you work for yourself?__ and if not __ did you ever work for a POOR MAN?__think about that when your bashing the rich capitalist, while cashing your paycheck,__kinda redundit isn’t it??

      • Lewis Munn

        Angel, I got fired by a very rich man, after I worked all night on an emergency problem, fixed it, and failed to show up for the regular work at 8AM.

        He got his ear chewed by the government administrative judge for that, but I never got a job in my profession anywhere again afterwards.

        Corporate money can talk in many ways.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Lewis, all of the rich aren’t bad Lewis, you got one that forgot where he came from_I’ve worked for a few too__all I can say that Karmas a b*tch, it all comes back.

      • eddie47d

        Angel, I “bash the rich capitalists” who deserved to be taken on. Maybe you need to be more aware of how they are taking us (and You) for a ride. Monsanto and Goldman Sacs are still in business so feel free to take them on.

      • DaveH

        If you believe that the Small Business Entrepreneur is the backbone of our country, Eddie, then why do you support Big Government which burdens them with piles of small-business-killing regulations?
        If you read the book “The Big Ripoff: How Big Business and Big Government Steal Your Money”, you would know that Big Government and Big Business work hand in hand to stifle the smaller businesses and thus take advantage of them, their consumers, and the taxpayers.
        Do yourself a favor, Eddie. Take some time off to read the book, instead of pestering us, and come back when you know something.

      • eddie47d

        I don’t believe I have gone after “small business entrepreneurs” as you accuse me of doing. You must be related to Dan in his false accusations.

      • JeffH

        eddie, eddie, eddie…do you read and comprehend at all or do you scan a comment and just react without comprehending what someone says?

        Your response clearly defines the answer to my question.

      • Dan az

        Eddie
        The little guy that creates out of his garage is the same person that you think is stealing all the money that you keep blaming!Gates comes to mind!Started in a garage by two kids and turned into something that you hate!So which is it?The big business or the little guy that got a head that your against that supplied millions of jobs and got rich from hard work.Do you think an inventor can manufacture his Ideas?Is it not the gamble that you have to take with your life’s savings to go to market to hopefully one day make it back and then some.I’m confused eddie with your logic!Or is it that your jealous that some one else will work with there own money and gamble that they could lose it all the whole time you and your union buddies sit around at coffee break and complain about your not making enough because look at what they make compared to us that have no skin in the game.Ya I think that fits your logic and every other liberal here.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Dan Az, Honest to God, I’ve been on here since 2009 and still can’t grasp the Liberal think_its ridiculous!

      • JeffH

        Angel, go figure! Ignorance is bliss…must be true!

      • JeffH

        Job Creators Speak Out on Excessive Regulations: Spencer Weitman, National Cement

        Spencer Weitman, a private-sector job creator from Alabama, took a moment today to discuss the impact of excessive federal regulations on his business, National Cement. As Mr. Weitman explains, regulatory obstacles created by Washington have forced National Cement to put a $350 million construction project on hold.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKpN3CR-rJg

      • JeffH

        Job Creators Back Action on Bills to Protect Jobs Put at Risk by Excessive Government Regulations

        At a House Energy & Commerce Subcommittee on Energy & Power hearing yesterday, American job creators voiced their support for legislation that is expected to be voted on in the coming weeks that will help address the regulatory burdens that are hampering job creation.

        Here are some of the highlights:
        One planned regulatory action, the new “Boiler MACT” rules, would affect thousands of American job creators – from factories to hospitals to municipalities – that use boilers. James A. Rubright, Chief Executive Officer of Rock-Tenn Company, cited a recent study that found that the rule would cost the U.S. forest products industry $7 billion and “would place at risk 36 mills and over 20,000 jobs in the pulp and paper sector alone, about 18% of its workforce.” Rubright warned that “the current wave of regulations is unsustainable,” and that “living with such an uncertain regulatory environment not only costs current jobs, but also prevents new jobs from being created.” Rubright urged Congress to pass the EPA Regulatory Relief Act (H.R. 2250), bipartisan legislation sponsored by Rep. Morgan Griffith (R-VA), “as soon as possible” to address the regulatory uncertainty that is putting jobs at risk. (Testimony, 9/8/11
        )
        Todd Elliott, General Manager of Celanese Corporation, said that the pending boiler regulations would impact one of the company’s facilities in Virginia that “currently employs more than 550 skilled workers and an additional 400 contractors.” Elliott warned that the cost increase associated with the rules could cause the company to “lose competitiveness and jobs.” (Testimony, 9/8/11)

        Dan Harrington, President and CEO of Lehigh Hanson, Inc., a supplier of heavy building materials to the construction industry, said just one of several new regulations affecting the cement industry “could force the closure of 18 out of the nearly 100 U.S. cement plants,” job losses that “will not be readily absorbed in the communities where most plants are located.” Harrington said the Cement Sector Regulatory Relief Act (H.R. 2681), introduced by Energy & Power Subcommittee Vice Chairman John Sullivan (R-OK), will “mitigate regulatory uncertainty and … preserve jobs that serve as the anchor of dozens of American communities.” (Testimony, 9/8/11)
        http://www.speaker.gov/blog/default.aspx?postid=259182

      • JeffH

        Washington Regulations Are Hurting Jobs – VIDEO
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGqgFGcDPIs&feature=channel_video_title

      • Dan az

        Way to go Brother!Can you find the one on the new unconstitutional powers that 0 gave EPA to circumvent congress?You know the one that gives them the right to make laws for their cap and trade taxation on all business?
        Oh and my new pic is a liberal that is looking for a clue!

      • JeffH

        Brother Dan, I think that the senate has put that to rest for now.

        Nice pic…must be a liberal looking for some kind of inspiration… :)

      • LES

        And they were not creating any jobs when they were not rich, only after making money could they create jobs.

      • Angel Wannabe

        LES, Yay!__Thanks be to Christ, someone else that gets it!

        You to JeffyH! Well said my man! :)

      • crisscross

        Eddie, you really don’t have a clue. Beyond DNC talking points, there’s a real world out there where most wealthy people earned their wealth working hard and where the fortunate few who can live off of their investments have every right to do so, every right to enjoy their success without having it confiscated by others…a real world that has nothing to do with your version.

  • Klaus

    EPA, FDA, USDA, OSHA, NLRB, HHS, HUD, DOE, FCC, kill them all. We don’t need any regulation. They are run by mostly lawyers anyhow. I don’t think you will find too many scientists at EPA as an example, just environmental nutcases.

  • Labs111

    As citizens of our community, county, state, and the United States of America, we accept the responsibility to support the common services we need to have in place. We also must accept that we have to pay for the necessary services we need that we cannot provide for ourselves. Here is where the struggle comes-”What services do we really need to provide as a community versus what services must we provide for ourselves”?

    At the birth of our nation the list of “community provided services” was very small because people were far more proud and independent. Today we have evolved into a majority of “moochers”. With the growth of government people have recognized that we can demand more freebies and get them simply by trading off our vote. In the eyes of many “the government” is a person by itself with endless and infinite ability to gives us anything we demand. Few people look at themselves as part of the government. As long as we can have the “other guy” pay more into the government sinkhole while we keep taking more and more out, we are happy. It’s alwasy the other guy that needs to put more in.

    When did this lack of self-dependence start? I suspect we evolved into it as Marxist/Socialist/Communist types infiltrated our country. We have slowly permitted the “get it for nothing” attitude be a controlling factor of our daily lives, and it has been passed on now through several generations of Americans. It’s like giving a child a lollipop. Once they have it and are enjoying it, I dare you to try and take it away without a riot occuring.

    There is only one way to solve the economic and moral pain we have created in our country. It’s called “endure the pain of retraction”.
    Unless we can once again make ourselves more self-dependent (retract to the way it used to be)like our ancestors were, we will find a growing government simply ruling our lives with our indirect permission. Herein lies the problem. It is human nature that we want to avoid self-inflicted pain at all costs. So we will defer to this person we call “government” to provide for us. As they fail we feel some great justification in blaming our problems on the government.

    We must begin NOW to reduce our government to the essential services we need as a community. We have too many “lollipops” being given away by government, and too many crooked politicians making money off of those lollipops. Start by taking “money power” away from those politicians by putting the “Fair Tax” proposal in place. Not a flat tax, but the actual “HR25 FAIR TAX” proposal. Then pass a required annual “balanced budget” ammendment. No excuses. with the available money identify the essential services the federal government must provide (such as a strong national defense). All of the “less than essential” services will be tossed back to the individual citizen to provide for themselves. Will there be pain? Oh yes. But there is no choice. “Necessity is the mother of invention”. Americans need to retract and learn (and embrace) independence and self-reliance once again. If we are unable to do this we are destined to become slaves of government an tyranical leaders (just like so many other countries).

  • Pat

    We all want all the perks of civilized society and we want someone else to pay for it. Corporations didn’t leave to escape environmental regulations they left because the could. They were allowed to sell out their homeland and exploit the residents of third world countries. Notice they didn’t move to heavily unionized Europe that has a flat across the board tax rate with no loop holes. Its is amazing that the workers will so staunchly support paying double the tax as the elite 10% who hold the bulk of the nation’s wealth. It should be obvious by now that if that system worked everyone would be employed. During the time of this country’s greatest growth and prosperity we had a 90% tax bracket. That was in the good old days when all who wished to be were employed and everyone thrived. The rich were richer than most and the rest lived at a higher standard than today.

    • DaveH

      Yes,
      Isn’t it amazing that some countries will accept a Gift Horse without looking it in the mouth? Oh, the foolishness.

    • DaveH

      No, that is wrong, Pat. Our greatest growth and prosperity came before the Progressives took increasing control of our country:
      http://mises.org/daily/4156/Failure-and-Prosperity

      Also, it might be noted that our Governments only spent 24% of GDP in 1950 (when income tax rates were 91%), while they spend 40% of GDP currently. Why are things so bad now, when Government is spending nearly twice as much?

  • http://angeltracks alicia

    Ron Paul says that we need the government out of our lives as much as possible!!! He’s got my vote! The government is to serve the people, not the people serve the government. WE are the people. This country was started by people who wanted to be free from the things we are experiencing today. If you study history and what the elite have done to the Constitution you can pretty much see what has gone wrong. For example: The original 13th amendment is an important issue. Search it and go from there. The creators of the Consitution warned us of this day if we ignored their words. I urge people to revisit the Constitution, and take it seriously.

  • Jan

    At least a real question at a debate, isn’t what the debates are suppose to be(?), off the cuff questions to get real answers from the candidiates? All of the candidiates should have been given time to answer that young man’s question. I’d be interested in their replies. Seeing my monthly pension check, the gov’t taking their 10% cut off the top, which is more than enough.

    • Alex

      I’d have liked to have heard the replies as well. I already know what Ron Paul thinks. He wants to repeal income tax, the death tax, capital gains tax, and a few others. That alone would have gotten him cheers, while the rest of the candidates would have been forced to either follow his lead (and essentially make promises that would come back to haunt them when they didn’t follow through), or make promises not quite as appealing as Paul’s.

      • DaveH

        Gingrich referred to the young man’s question and said “We’re going to let you keep more of your money, if you create more of what we want”.
        There it is folks, Freudian slip or not. They will “let you” keep more of your money if you do things their way.
        How much more proof do we need that these establishment Republicans think our money is their money?

      • bob wire

        aah !, you are kidding ! Did Snuty Newty real say that? ~ It does sound like his “wording style” , something he would attempt to pull off.

        Like his “Social engineering, where it left or right is not good”

        I like to have cried with laughter with that one. An “In your fact admission” that the right is engaged in the practice just like the left.

  • Denis F

    Ron Paul? A good man with some good ideas and ideals but he does not have the strength to pull it off. Everyone of ‘em has some good ideas but unfortunately, so far they also have lots of shortcomings. Unfortunately, until we get organized and refuse to tolerate their bull, we have what we have.

  • http://www.easyinvest.co.za peter

    We need to somehow “convince” the government that it works for s and not that we work for it. That is not easy to do when we keep on giving the government everything that they demand from us. The only thing they will understand is when we stand up and say: “The party’s over now government, it’s time to do things differently and replace you all with competent people. No more nonsense from you guys, it is now time to set out the solutions and put in place the remedy. You guys never did and never will cut it so we are going to do it ourselves. We have the competent and honourable people at our disposal so you can all take a walk and watch while we fix

    • Lost in Paradise

      They will not believe us, until their blood runs in the streets like rainwater.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Controlling taxes and eliminating the debt is so easy, but both sides of the aisle dont want to do it, because it would mean that they themselves might have to ante up. First of all, close down at least half of our military bases around the world. Now Im the first one to say we need a strong, strong military, as without with we would be taken over in a heartbeat. But we dont need all these bases in France and Germany, and many many other places around the world, sucking billions of dollars out of us. Then, we dont need every swinging joe who served in congress, living on a giant swelled retirement fund for the rest of their lives, making more than they did when working. It is called being a “public servant” for a reason. It is not called “self servant”, where they do a term or two and are taken care of for life. Its so, so wrong. And they need to pay for their health insurance just as you and I do. Any law they pass, they themselves should be subject to it. Then there are government agencies that just suck the life out of us, that need either shrunk or totally done away with. The Department of Energy, which was founded by Carter to wean us off of foreign oil, now employs around 280,000 people plus contracts out another 100 thousand, and hey, guess what, we are just as dependant on oil as we were when this started. Only now we are also paying billions to support these government jobs, which obviously have failed miserable. We spend billions on the public school system, which is and has been a dismal failure for years. Time to get out of it and let the private system take over, which has shown to be a much more successful model. Government interference has totally ruined our school system. The IRS is another money sucker. Get rid of federal income tax, and just pay a flat tax on items, maybe 10 percent. I mean, if I buy a 400.00 fishing boat, I pay my 10 percent. If a rich bastard like John Kerry buys a 40 million dollar yacht, he pays 10 percent. Close the loopholes that let people escape taxes, and make it even across the board. Mr. Poor guy spends 20 bucks on something, he pays 10 percent. This way it is totally equal, as 10 percent is 10 percent is 10 percent. No loopholes, no so called poor not paying any but collecting it, and no filthy rich guy writing it off, and everyone pays the piper. Big government is killing us, and they keep expanding and creating more and more for us working folks to pay for. Look, the first stinking thing Obama and the democrats did was expand social handout programs. They enlarged welfare, food stamps, unemployment, and even went as far as to sign into law that they now use our money to perform abortions in third world countries. We need to stop this nonsense. We pay billions supporting illegal aliens, that should be returned to where they came from. We spend billions on marijuana eradication, which is such a waste, as it grows right back. We subsidize oil companies which are making record profits. Stupid. We give millions and billions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Turkey and many other countries that are not, and I repeat, are not our friends. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Thank all the lawyers in the world that have all become politicians, and have fixed it so that nothing gets done without them getting paid. One day, Im sure it is coming, that when someones indentity is discovered that they are a lawyer, they will be taken into the backwoods, and what they do is becoming tiring, very tiring. Shame on all of you in charge that do these damning things to this country, and shame on all of you that continue to vote in these career politicians. Time for some new blood, and if they dont work for us, vote them out the very next election. From what I see, these two parties have created a division in we the people, that keeps them in power by siding against the other guys. Its time we the people became one, and started kicking their deadbeat buts to the curb every election until they finally get it. Im from Indiana, and Im sorry folks, but there is no way a guy like Dick Lugar should be getting elected year in and year out. He has done nothing, but be a member of the good old boys network. All these guys like him, Lugar, McCain, Kerry, Daschle, and I dont care what side they are on, these career guys need to go. They are so entrenched with special interest groups, all they care about is whats in it for them. Shame on them all.

    • Don

      Amen Beberoni, i am with you all the way !!

    • dan

      This are the most sensible statements read on this post yet. This government has become one of “Parties” These parties are not loyal to the people or the country, only their party. To many Americans have fallen into the same…that being party loyalty. Neither party is better than the other, neither party wants to relinquish control , power, or money for the benefit of the country. Conservative, Liberal, Christian, or non-believer…these are all terms utilized to keep the mainstream at odds with each other. What happened to being an AMERICAN or better yet, a HUMAN BEING. Fire them all! Limit their terms! The party politics Party has been going on to long. Time for them to dryout and sober up! JMHO

  • Rosco1776

    Ron Paul 2012 or BU$T !!

  • Suzanne

    Still Bob Livingston, you never speak about Ron Paul who won’t do any of this. He’s the only one I will vote for. I agree that the others are sheep in wolf’s clothing.

    • James Andrews

      Ron Paul is the man!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Will you vote for Paul, even if he is not on the ballot? If you do, remember that you are insuring Obamas re-election.

      • Shane

        Romney, Perry or Bachmann, it doesn’t matter if any of them were to win or Obama was to, it’ll be the same song and dance. Ron Paul or it’s more of the same. Simple as that. Ron Paul 2012!

      • DaveH

        No, Capitalist, it is you and others like you who have insured Obama’s election. Without people like yourself buying into the “don’t split the vote” scenario, we could have elected principled people decades ago after Jimmy Carter made a mess of our economy. Instead your kind kept voting for, and getting, the lesser of two evils, which is still just evil. So the Leaders in both parties have been able to continue fleecing the citizens and using that fleece to line their own beds. All because people like you, Capitalist, have aided (perhaps unwittingly) in the suppression of principled people who could have awakened the voters decades ago.
        People are finally awakening to the scam and trying to do something about it. So bugger off, Capitalist, and let Freedom take root.

      • Lost in Paradise

        Capitalist, I understand what you mean if Paul is not on the ballot, but I have read other posts by you, and wonder why you are sooooo against Ron Paul. I think that no matter what happens, Obama will be re-elected. Too many liberal voters.

      • moonbeam

        If Obama gets re-elected, I believe there will be smoke in the city. With as low an approval rating as he has (whatever that happens to be right now) I really don’t think it will sit well with people who turned out to vote him out. Riots and chaos may ensue. It worked in the middle east getting rid of leaders the people didn’t want.

        Four more years of him this country can’t take. Romney and Perry are no good either. They are partial to using executive orders to do what they want and force their will on the American People. Perry did it as governor of Texas forcing Gardasil injections on young girls. He will do much worse things as president. Count on it.

        As stated earlier, listen to their words. In addition, check out their affiliations and voting records. Check birth certificates and other important records, such as experience. Obama slithered in with none of the above and not properly vetted.

      • Alex

        First of all, Ron Paul will be on the ballot in the primaries. If he wins the nomination, he’ll be the Republican candidate. So before anyone worries about splitting the vote and other nonsense like that, let’s first worry about getting him the nomination.

        If he DOESN’T get the Republican nomination and runs independent, then the answer is yes. I will vote for him on the independent ticket. And so will a lot of other people.

        In case you were not aware, the results were just posted recently. Ron Paul won the straw poll in California by a landslide. He had more votes than Romney and Perry combined.

        So stop trying to downplay Ron Paul like a media stooge. He might not be on the television a whole lot because of establishment interference, but he’s got the numbers behind him. He’s not merely a top tier candidate. He’s presently in first place.

      • JeffH

        How much longer will/can the MSM ignore Ron Paul…Ron Paul wins California straw poll…another victory for Ron Paul…

        With a hair less than 45% of the vote, Ron Paul has won this year’s straw poll, which was held in front of the California Republican Party convention delegation.

        At least two of Paul’s supports at the straw poll voted for President Obama, but are disappointed by the results.
        According to MSNBC, one husband and wife couple defected from the Democratic Party:

        “Both of us voted for Obama in 2008,” said Monica Wattana, an emergency care doctor.
        “We kind of fell for the, ‘Change We Can Believe In,’ ” said her husband, Brian Wilson, an engineer. He laughed.

        http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/311643

      • Lewis Munn

        Obama’s election does NOT depend on not voting for Mr. Paul, or anyone else.

        Obama will be re-elected, because he pays off the unions that program and run the voting machines, and pays off the illegals who vote over and over for him for pay.

      • Lewis Munn

        Obama runs the illegals. Obama runs the Unions. Together they control the vote, no matter what the rest of you do. The Illegals can vote early and often, or late in such quantities they cannot be checked; Obama controls the unions, who run the voting machines, and can reprogram critical ones so Obama has a landslide.

        You folks only think you can beat Obama. He has you bamboozled; he holds 5 aces in his hand and he will play every one!

    • DaveH

      He was speaking of Ron Paul, Suzanne, without speaking of him. Read the article again, carefully.

  • Free Mind

    Taxes fund the government. This is a government we don’t want and more importantly don’t need. I say there are two choices. For the sheep, requirem they pay 5% if they feel they must. For me; I haven’t filed in 3 years. Don’t plan to ever again.

    If everyone refused to pay the burdensome taxes, that would be our lever of control. Pretty simple.

    • eddie47d

      Then don’t render onto Caesar as you are saying. Complaining about taxes is as American as apple pie yet if you don’t pay then don’t play. Now you do directly benefit from the Clean Water and Clean Air Acts so why do you think the rest of us should pay for what you receive?

      • Dan az

        eddie
        The clean air act?You mean those catalytic converters that they forced everyone to use that puts out cyanide gas or is it that gas that was suppose to be safer that created killed all the lakes and streams I forget what they called it but it was a mandatory additive that calif. forced through then had to take it back out.Ya they really got it together.Lets not forget fluoride,you know the poison that has a skull and cross bones on it that they put into the water.Ya thats clean.Lets not forget the envirogreenies that stop all the dams from being built too.So we all can just pay more for the energy from those nasty generators that spew out toxic air that they want them to stop too.We need more regs right ed then that way we can force everyone to conform with your sorted logic.Your funny eddie :)

      • eddie47d

        Lets go out and build more dams and stop the natural flow of rivers. Sometimes it works and sometimes it backfires. Then the State has to spend millions buying up land,dredging behind the dams and stocking the lakes with fish. There are benefits with dams such as water supplies,hydro and recreation also. Everything has to be taken into consideration.

      • Lewis Munn

        I am not sure how I benefit from the clean water acts…water tastes worse than ever, especially in cities!

        And the clean air…well, it hurts me because, IF you check, the “Clean Air” folks are DIRECTLY responsible for the rapid rise in global temperatures. Nature proved this twice in the 1800′s, tho I am sure you still deny recorded facts!

      • Lewis Munn

        You are socialist, and so must be social, including picking up the tab for the rest of us. Etiquette demands it.

        Socialists are the ones with the money! So start being social, all of you.

    • Al Sieber

      I’ll second that!!

      • Al Sieber

        Not you eddie, Free Mind’s comment.

    • Mike P

      If taxes did,in fact,fund government,we wouldn’t have the leviathon that exists today. This monster has been funded with “money” created from thin air ,with pure greed and power being the motivators. The income tax is nothing more than a government hoax,lie,ponzi scheme to steal from anyone who will consent to it. This is a plank straight from the “Communist Manifesto” Anyone not wishing to be a victim of this fraud should go to: http://www.losthorizons.com

  • Jay

    Actually, the question should be, “How much does the vampiric, government deserve to take”? Answer: As little as possible!

    • Tom

      Jay, And everyone else.

      Research the word “kleptoparasite”. I believe you will find it to be appropriately descriptive when referring to the three branch kleptocratic political duopoly that we call a “federal government.”

      • Jay

        kleptoparasite |ˌkleptəˈparəˌsīt|
        noun Zoology
        a bird, insect, or other animal that habitually robs animals of other species of food.

        Yap, that is a very accurate description of the puppet government that is in place today. You know Tom, there was only one President that was about to avert the mess we find ourselves in today, and, as you know, was assassinated for it! JF Kennedy wanted no part of the federal reserve, rather, he wanted to start printing American currency, not notes like the federal reserve issues, but American currency, with no interest! You know, as Rockefeller once said: “Give me control of a nation’s currency, and i care not who writes its laws”. Well, enter the federal reserve, and it’s been down hill ever since! Btw, American total debt obligation totals 200 trillion! No, its not a type-o!

      • Lewis Munn

        Hey…we’re the best at getting into debt! Let’s take a week off to celebrate on the White House lawn! Free hotdogs to the first billion people.

        Salad’s on Obama!

      • Jay

        Sorry Tom, it wasn’t Rockefeller that said that, it was A. Amschel Rothschild!

  • Capt Gene

    God, who owns it ALL, only asks for 10%. If that works for God, how much more so that will work for man.

    • Karolyn

      God asks for NO MONEY!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Karolyn , yes he does, God requires a tenth of ALL spoils from livestock to money. Read the Bible!

      • Karolyn

        I’m sure that’s in there because the Church wanted to make sure it got its cut. I’m talking about what’s REAL!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Good Grief Karolyn, if your going by the 60′s era, IS ANYTHING REAL or OR IS IT IMAGINED, how crazy do ya wanna get with this?

    • Lewis Munn

      God asks for all of you. So does the Government now. How does one accomodate both God and government?

      • Angel Wannabe

        Lewis Munn, we cannot serve two masters, one must choose.

  • Jane

    Well, here we go again. You are trying your best to reelect Obama. Have at it, and we will see what sort of groaning and bellowing we will hear from you after the election when you see some REAL facts about who wants our money. Why is it that this sickness takes over people when there is a critical election ahead? I’ve seen it over and over again.

    • DaveH

      Who is it, Jane? And how can they take our money and other property without the complicity and Force of Big Government?

  • Donald D Jones ww2 vet

    you just don’t get it , do you?
    The E P A has regulated America out of Business
    They have moved out, because they can’t make it here
    I just can not figure out what the hell you are thinking
    Congress , the President, the Media, heads in the Sand
    I know, you know, we must chop the regulations way back
    to get industry started again, and lock that door so they
    can stay here, Cut Regulation and no new regulation

    been there, done that, don jones

    • Angel Wannabe

      DDJones well said!__I did some research a while back just on our community alone. I wanted to know how many industry & manufacturing companies closed in the last 30-35 years here._ ANSWER_ 21. Reasons, Non_ Union compliance, tax & regulation, and 3rd, Ceo/owner deaths.
      It doesn’t take a genius to figure this out. We’ve been taxed and regulated right out of jobs!_and The Libs know full well what they’re doing.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Great Idea lets bring back the days of rivers so polluted by industry that the fish can not be eaten and they catch fire all by themselves.I long for the days when I was able to see the air I was breathing.Great Idea.Question if tax brakes for the wealthy create jobs why no jobs since the first Bush tax cut?

      • Angel Wannabe

        Your way over the top nam 68, you guys crack me up. Ya either have no opinion at all or go way over board!!!__ Where did I say to go back and pollute everything from land, air and water? __I didn’t!__What I stated was the EPA have gone too damned far and driven everything off shore. Ift he TPTB want to tax and regulate further, LET THEM PAY FOR IT!–THEY PRINT MONEY OUTTA THIN AIR ANY OTHER TIME!

      • Angel Wannabe

        aw,
        You don’t regulate job growth so much, that you regulate companies off the map and off shore, which in fact is just what they’ve done!

      • Al Sieber

        Angel, you’re wasting your time with sarge.

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        A few examples of why the EPA was started and is still needed. Cuyahoga River Ohio caught fire all by it’s self, Hudson river NY do not eat the fish due to the PSB, Washington State consume only one serving of fish a month, Florida panhandle consume no fish do to the red tide ,etc,etc.I could go get into smog over LA,Chicago,NYC etc,etc and acid rain destroying lakes in the North East etc,etc Why bother you follow the pundits like Rush, Beck, Hannity, etc who are all millionaires and are just protecting themselves with there Bovine Scatology

      • Angel Wannabe

        nam68 and why do you push the Liberal agenda on a Conservative website?__ Do you benefit by the Liberal policy ie, unemployment benefits?, Welfare?_ Got a house for nothing, Government Grants?

        _or are you just on here fishing for conservative think, to take back to the Liberal Media bosses so they can plan they’re next attack??__after they hand you a paycheck for doing this, that is??!!___Last response, NUff said LIB!

      • DaveH

        Sarge won’t be happy until he and his Progressive buds have turned us into an economic wasteland, so he can practice his jungle survival skills once again before he dies:
        http://mises.org/daily/683/Greens-versus-Energy

      • eddie47d

        See how they ignored your comment SGT. They answered but nothing in relationship to what you said. In other words they didn’t have a real answer.

      • JeffH

        Gee eddie, you seem to have ignored the fact that there are many responsive posts to the sarge…hmmm?

      • DaveH

        Can you give me a synopsis of the article I posted a link to, Eddie?

      • bob wire

        well Red Tide is mean enough to think it’s a mistake make by man. Burns the eyes and lungs, stinks and overwhelming ` but it’s all natural!

        Red tide is a common name for a phenomenon also known as an algal bloom (large concentrations of aquatic microorganisms), an event in which estuarine, marine, or fresh water algae accumulate rapidly in the water column and results in discoloration of the surface water. It is usually found in coastal areas.[1]

        These algae, known as phytoplankton, are single-celled protists, plant-like organisms that can form dense, visible patches near the water’s surface. Certain species of phytoplankton, usually dinoflagellates or diatoms, contain photosynthetic pigments that vary in color from green to brown to red.

        When the algae are present in high concentrations, the water appears to be discolored or murky, varying in color from purple to almost pink, normally being red or green. Not all algal blooms are dense enough to cause water discoloration, and not all discolored waters associated with algal blooms are red. Additionally, red tides are not typically associated with tidal movement of water, hence the preference among scientists to use the term algal bloom.

        Some red tides are associated with the production of natural toxins, depletion of dissolved oxygen or other harmful effects, and are generally described as harmful algal blooms. The most conspicuous effects of these kind of red tides are the associated wildlife mortalities of marine and coastal species of fish, birds, marine mammals, and other organisms. In the case of Florida red tides, these mortalities are caused by exposure to a potent neurotoxin called brevetoxin which is produced naturally by the marine algae Karenia brevis.

        But I understand your point Sarge. ~ allowed to do anything they want too, big business pursuing big profits would destroy the plant if left unchecked by mankind. Mr Peabody’s coal train would haul it all away.

        I do believe big business is more mindful today then anytime in history and the reason for this is the pressures places upon them by people many here take exception too. So let us look for some compromise in such matters. Big Business has that wanted to stay in America.

        we’ve made a big turn around since the 60′s and we’ve lost some ground and gained some ground.

        I don’t want to work on a assemble line making cheap watches and cell phones and live in a grass hut and wear on shoes. I don’t want that for my children but somebody is willing to do it.

      • Karolyn

        I will never forget the radio interview I heard around 10 years ago. A big developer in NJ was asked if he felt badly that he was using up all the land, and his grandkids would have to deal with it. His answer was basically, “No.” In so many words, he could give a crap about what he was leaving; all he caed about was how much he could make right now. Look at Monsanto taking over the world seed bank and not caring at all what it is doing to people. Big Business is out for the bucks and let the chips fall where they may. They will get away with as much as they can.

      • eddie47d

        Monsanto has way too much control over our lives. Although the Conservatives say they don’t like Monsanto either this company is nothing but another corporation out of many who have screwed someone. In their case it was the small farmer and heirloom seeds.

      • Al Sieber

        Sarge, what do you know about the EPA? I deal with the NAZI’s once a month.

      • Al Sieber

        eddie, lay off the Twinkies and Moon Pies.

      • DaveH

        Apparently, Sgt, that is what you strive for when you work with your Liberal Cohorts to impoverish our nation. It is well known fact that the poorest economies have the dirtiest environments.
        Get out your gas mask.

      • DaveH

        Only a deluded Liberal would still be dredging up that old dead horse of Acid Rain:
        http://reason.org/news/show/the-conservative-reversal-on-scienc.html

      • eddie47d

        “It is well known that the poorest nations have the dirtiest environments”. Although that statement is true why do you actively fight against anyone who tries to keep our environment clean and safe? That should be a strength of a nation not something to scorn. Anti-environmentalists are always diluting our laws to serve those companies that do the damages to our environment. We can’t control what other countries do to their rivers and where they dump their waste. That is their loss and not something to be envious of.

      • DaveH

        Do you have any logic skills at all, Eddie? Good Grief.

      • eddie47d

        I would think you are the one without logic on that one.

      • Lost in Paradise

        Darn Sarge, I think you ate too many of those fish.

      • Alex

        I have a better question for YOU. When was the last time you heard of a poor person giving someone else a job?

        The wealthy create jobs. No one else can. If you take the wealth from the wealthy, then no one has the means to create anything.

        Taxing the piss out of the wealthy to create government jobs is just reallocation. They aren’t creating anything new. They are just preventing free markets and entrepeneurs from creating the jobs in order to raise the revenue to create the jobs themselves, and usually at a higher pay rate with less responsible spending.

      • Karolyn

        I’ve heard that before about poor people not creating jobs, and it’s not true. For one thing, when I was in business for myself and poor at that, I had a couple of employees. For another, look at all the people who have jobs with organizations trying to help the poor! :-)

      • Alex Frazier

        If you were in business for yourself, you weren’t poor. You might have had debt, and a lot of the assets you had tied up. But you weren’t poor. Poor people don’t start businesses. Poor people buy beer on Friday and wonder if they’ll be able to pay the past due electric bill with next week’s paycheck.

        Poor people also tend to have bad credit, because when the time comes to decide between buying food or paying for the credit card they got to buy tires that they desperately needed but couldn’t afford, food wins. Working in retail for years, I can tell you first hand that if they were poor, their credit sucked. If they had some money, their credit was golden. It’s all a matter a means.

        So, no … poor people don’t create jobs. Poor people work the jobs created by people in better financial condition, or live off the welfare and unemployment paid in by those in a better financial condition. Take your pick. But they don’t create a damn thing but higher taxes for those who try and better themselves.

      • bob wire

        “Alex says:
        September 19, 2011 at 10:42 am

        I have a better question for YOU. When was the last time you heard of a poor person giving someone else a job?”

        Well if you want to talk about it, get it right.

        Jobs are not “given” they are commissioned, let or “exchanged” for something.

        The “affluent” have had ample time to generate the jobs and employ a workforce after enjoying some 7 years of “W’s” tax breaks. At this point I believe they have declined the invite finding it not compulsory.

        Much like the Federal government, ~the amount “gained”, went into their pockets and became part of their “General Fund”. ~ They really don’t know what money we are talking about. It’s viewed as all “Their MoneY” in “their pocket” at this point and someone is trying to take it for them.

        Make perfect sense to me!

        So the moral of this story,

        “Don’t give people money and then turn around and attempt lay claim to it or control it.” They will only look at you funny and think that your are weird.

      • Lewis Munn

        Now we cannot eat ocean fish either, as all the nuclear “accidents” have poisoned all the water. And you got no idea how much stuff the government is feeding us. And irradiating us. For our own good, of course!!

        I am reluctant to fly overseas as I have to take a dose of poisonous Mercury to meet government specs! Mercury is a cumulative poison, and there are better ways to avoid viral infections. Mercury also destroys your cognitive brain functions.

        Maybe that is why the governments are so anxious we take it!

      • eddie47d

        Environmentalists have been fighting against mercury poisoning for at least 60 years now. Coal is the biggest factor in it being spread. Coal ash is a byproduct and can also be harmful. Now we have GE to contend with in forcing those new bulbs on us. China doesn’t care and that is where the bulbs will be coming from. We have been sold out from all sides of the Mercury problem.

      • Lewis Munn

        Nam68, I would like to see that fish that when you catch it, it cooks itself. This could be a solution to the Food Crisis! Do you have it breeding true yet?

  • Greg

    The elites have run into a problem. They can’t tax the unemployed, whose jobs they sent away with NAFTA.

  • Angel Wannabe

    WEll Put Bob, In fact there is hardly much I can add.__Voting Repub is about the same as voting Dem anymore, soon as they’re elected its business as usual anyway. Because the TPTB are calling the shots and telling them how it will be regardless.__Which always means the Guv gets richer and the people get poorer__IN ESSCENSE NOTHING EVER CHANGES, It’s as plain as the nose on your face!__Oddly enough, over the weekend while talking to some friends, we decided too, that 10% is in fact good enough for the Good Lord, but the Guv always wants more.
    Washington’s the one implementing all the taxes, so let them pay for them!_The Guv claims this huge deficit, as Bob explained, as a means to excuse & control us into accepting more regulation and tax.
    __We’ve Been onto ya for a while now Washington.__Our Patriotic Duty …Right!??

    • David

      It sounds like it’s time for a Tea Party!

      • Larry From Indiana

        My opinion David is: Time for an old time ‘Tar & Feather Party in DC!’

      • Patriot II

        Larry the Dems and Libs will take that as a Physical Threat, and brand you as a Hate Crime person. Just remember, they and Jimmy Hoffa (Obama’s close bud) can get away with it you can’t.

      • Angel Wannabe

        lARRY from Idiana, LOL!__Funny you mention that, my Grandmother who is long gone now, told me a story years ago, that at 9 years old her and a friend were walking downtown, and got caught in the middle of a mob of men which tarred and feathered a man who murdered a policemen, and then drug him through the streets while tied to a horse. She was pretty explicit about it, the man died and the end result wasn’t pretty.

      • Lost in Paradise

        I think I would prefer a lynching in front of the White House, with all the liberal news media for spectators.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Lost in Paradise___LOL!

      • Old Henry

        Lost in Paradise:

        That is an excellant idea. And we can re-use the rope as many times as we need to…

        Fast, simple and efficient.

      • Angel Wannabe

        H*ll Yeah Old Henry at least by re-using the rope, we’d be green and recycling!

      • Alex

        Careful with that, or the liberals might start pushing for rope control laws. Street lamps shaped like an upside down L will require a special license … only good for silver colored lamps, provided you register them in time. And the rope available for purchase will only be allowed to be one foot long.

        After all, we would need to punish and restrict all lawful rope users because of the one random act of hanging the bastards in Washington.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Alex, LMAO!!!

      • Old Henry

        Ditto Alex!

        Looks like everyone got plenty of sleep over the week end!

      • FreedomFighter

        Dave its time to become active, get your friends active, and protest the now blatent takeover of America by the NWO banksters and elite Lucy’s.

        Its end game time. We may need call on our US military to support revolt against these usurpers and the tyrant in the white house.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

    • Warrior

      I find it amazing that everytime little barry gets in trouble the LSM trots out bubba to get his opinion.

      • JUKEBOX

        Much as I hate to say it, Bubba is far more reasonable than Barry, and a whole lot smarter.

    • Al Sieber

      Angel I agree, and Bob good article. everyone should read the coinage act of 1792 if we would of stuck to that we wouldn’t be in this mess. our money isn’t real it has no substance, it’s a Federal Reserve Note not a dollar which should be gold or silver. the Govt. doesn’t deserve one penny from us from our fruits of labor, we deserve to keep it all. we need to stand up for our rights instead of being a nation of sheep and sissy’s and I hope it isn’t too late. in Deuteronomy it says substance for substance, I trade you something of worth for something of worth. not Fed. Notes. our whole monetary system is pure evil.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Ats what I say Al Sieber, Washington guilts into paying out more taxes & regulation, they’ve chamged the language by calling it “Our Patriotic Duty!”__F-IN Idiots!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Al, Sorry typo, I meant “changed”.

      • Dan az

        Hey Al
        I can sorta see why the need for paper funny money,It was easier to keep in your pocket but the minute they took it off the gold stanard then it became useless toilet paper.Thats what the plan was all along.The only good thing I see is that the price of gold and silver just keeps going up every time they print more debt.So their next move could only be one thing and thats chip everyone with their bank account and then there wont be anything to change hands.Our demise is on the horizon.
        Getting cold up here how about there?

      • Al Sieber

        Dan, Henry, it’s 74 in the am, and 90 in the late afternoon and Alex I’ll have to look it up I was paraphrasing.

      • Dan az

        Not bad! its in the 50′s in the morning here and 80′s all day.I guess your wearing your winter clothes now huh? :)

      • Old Henry

        Absolutely Al. If the poll resuts that DaveH posted above are any indication, we are peeling the layers off the onion.

        I am getting more positive responses when I wear my One Big A$$ Mistake America tee shirt.

        Has it cooled of some down in your neck of the woods? Got your sweater out yet? I have had to regress to my blue jeans and sweat shirt. Takes some of the enjoyment out of my Miller Lite consuming.

      • Alex

        Where in Deuteronomy does it say that? If it reads as you say in context, it’s a passage I’d like to add to my current repertoire of anti-Fed scriptures.

      • Al Sieber

        I’ll look it up again, what do you have in anti-Fed biblical quotes?

      • bob wire

        There is many statement made in Deuteronomy you wouldn’t agree with.

        That was eye for eye and tooth for tooth~ trial law Al Sieber

        They cut off heads and stone people for just being an “embarrassment” to the family back then.

        I know that you are bright, but don’t be spreading the virtues of a primitive cultures.

        If you don’t want to live in America and pay a tax like everyone else has to, ~ take your happy a$$ down the road. Take with you all that you can carry.

    • Old Henry

      Angel Wannabe:

      God Almighty requires 10%.He is greater than any government. So, if God can get buy on 10% and He is above government then government should get no more than 9.9%.

      • Angel Wannabe

        At’s what I say Old Henry__ anymore is highway robbery!

      • Karolyn

        God Almighty requires NO money! The churches require the money – some a hell of a lot more than others!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Karolyn Reposting this AGAIN, God requires his people to pay a tenth of they’re spoils from livestock to money__Read the Bible!

      • Karolyn

        AGAIN! What is in the Bible is hand-selected by The Church to insure it had complete control of the people AND their money!

      • Opal the Gem

        Prove it Karo

  • DaveH
    • DaveH

      The MSM doesn’t want people to wake up:
      http://www.huntingtonnews.net/9134

      • slapjack

        Try Fox News!!!!!!!

      • FreedomFighter

        TSA will now grop you kids, wife, girlfriend, mother, father and little babies at NFL football games. TSA type groping coming to shopping centers, grocery stores, and police highway checkpoints.

        This is freekin insane.

        http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel?blend=1&ob=5

        Steal your money and molest you, this goverment is way out of control.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Lewis Munn

        Put a mousetrap in each pocket

      • Christin

        Love it, Lewis Munn!

      • Kate8

        slapjack – Really? I think it’s all an illusion. Just another way to control our thinking while making us think we think independently.

        For example: “O’Reilly on the FoxNews Channel (also) tries to portray himself as just another ‘ordinary guy’ (one of the folks), may give people the feeling that they can identify with him, as if he is an ‘ordinary guy’ that is on their level, and not a haughty, intellectual, or elitist. The only catch is that this ‘ordinary guy’ is a gazillionaire, the PNAC spokesperson, whose friends are the CEOs of the oil industry, and, as of summer 2006, who has the US military and Congress by the spurs.” –Corporatism, by Jeffrey Grupp.

        None of us think for ourselves, even if we think we do. Our minds and thoughts are owned by the corporatist elite, all the while keeping us believing that we have choices. Even avenues of rogue thinking are carefully crafted. Every “new thought” or “new movement” was someone elses idea. They are playng with our minds and keeping even the “nonconformists” under control.

        Most people are not able to see this, and don’t want to see it. This is the worst kind of slavery…the kind where people don’t know they are slaves, and are even happy being so.

      • Robert Smith

        Riiiiiiiight Kate…. You and your god just can’t stand to see people happy, can you?

        If folks are happy what business is it of yours?

        Rob

      • Kate8

        RS – Spoken like a true cyborg.

        You should do very well in the NWO slavegrid.

      • Bud G.

        Kate8: It is interesting that you picked O’Reilly. I have never figured out why the people like him so much because he can be a very obnoxious person and talks over the people on his show. I don’t believe you can say he is a Republican and if anything he is an Independent. They do, however, present both sides of an issue of liberal and conservative views. This cannot be said of the other media; even CNN and MSNBC wouldn’t know the truth if it slapped them in the face. Tell me how many times how you seen coverage of an event such as Trumpka’s outburst on CNN or MSNBC? How many times have you seen a Republican drug through the mud with them making false claims or outright lies?
        Do you remember one very popular reporter being fired for producing what he knew was an outright lie about President Bush? He was fired solely because it was the President and the pressure that came form it. This is their game and they are good at it but the fact is they are losing audience to Fox and have been for the last few years where Fox is by far the most watched.

        The debate by the candidates for the Republican nomination being held in Tampa, where I live, was a bad idea. It was also a bad idea for CNN to host it. Why, because Tampa is majority Democrat and CNN certainly doesn’t favor the Republican candidates. Look for them though to move away from Obama as the election nears and begin pushing Hillary for President since they see Obama as abject failure and unlikely to win in 2012.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/MrMrEinstein?feature=mhee Lee

        Fox News Ha Ha Rupert Murdock own’s them, Own’s Wall Street,My Space and other related New’s origination’s. Controlled New’s at it’s worst.
        Only thing Fox New’s has that is worth anything is Freedom Watch with Judge Neapano.Real News check Alex Jones on youtube.Prisonplanet.com or infowars.com.”This is the real new’s they sugar coat nothing.

      • Old Henry

        Thanks Lee. I saved them in my Favorites.

      • DaveH

        And John Stossel (Libertarian), and America’s Nightly Scoreboard with David Asman, and Follow the Money with Eric Bolling.

    • Robert Smith

      Didn’t some guy named Jesus come up with something like, “Rendeer onto Cesar…”

      An educated populace, roads, water, sewer, etc., should be community efforts.

      When the Roman infrastructure was taken over by the christians there was a thing called the “Dark Ages.” The sewers didn’t work, ideas were crushed…

      Isn’t it time to catch on?

      Rob

      • newspooner

        Wow! Blaming the “Dark Ages” on Christians is like blaming the “Holocaust” on Rabbis or blaming the “Holomondor” on Ukrainian peasants or blaming the “Killing Fields” on moped riders. The “Dark Ages” resulted from an increase in the size and scope of government, the same old story of oppression by the same kind of people who today call themselves “Liberals”. Governments murdered well over 100 million of their own citizens in the Twentieth Century. “Liberals” today are setting the stage for a repeat of that performance in this century.

      • Old Henry

        And newspooner, I’ll bet Rob does everything he can to minimise his burden on April 15th.

        I’ll bet he NEVER sends in EXTRA $ to DC, his state capital or his local Assessor’s Office at the County Seat.

        Do as I say, not as I do liberals!

      • JiimCO

        Well as pointed out in the column (The majority of the people abandoned Rehoboam, and Israel was split in two.) how did easing the yoke on the people Israel work out for them? Did they become a stronger more vibrant nation able to resist the many enemies that surrounded them? No one likes to pay taxes but is trading in your tax burden to your own government to be a slave under another, is not a better deal!

        Even today the people of Israel are protesting their heavy tax burden … what do you suppose will be the outcome for the state of Israel if they again abandon the next Rehoboam?

      • 1776

        hey JiimCO isreel paying tax ha we the us gives every man women and child in the state 15,000 a year yes we do. and in the bible in matthew it says that yahshua and the taught ones came to kapar nahum and they went in a house and one of the tax colletors came to kepha and ask does you master not pay the tax and he said yes ie he dont pay so kepha came to yahshua who said who do they tax the stranger or the son he said the stranger so he said that is why but to stop them from stumbling against each other go to here and cast a hook and the first fish you catch open its mouth and there you will find a gold coin give that to them.

      • DonnieB

        Religion ran the show. Just becasue it doesn’t suit your way of thinking, doesn’t mean it is not true.

      • http://www.motorcarsfinancial.com Brad

        Amen Brother

      • S.C. Murf

        The christians did it, now that’s a good one bobbie. Time to make that popping sound.

        up the hill
        airborne

      • JUKEBOX

        That’s like Obama blaming Bush for what’s happening today. The Romans did exactly what the politicians are doing today. They lived lavish lifestyles, had troops all over the known world, and kept the poor depressed.

      • slapjack

        They are called Democrats today.

      • Old Henry

        Not just Democraps Slapjack. RINOs / elitist Republicans as well.

        They are all guilty as hell.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Roman Catholics to be more exact in conjunction with the ruling elite Kings and Princes.

      • Pat

        OH BROTHER!!!

      • Gold

        Yes, but didn’t he also say “The poor will always be with us.”

      • Lastmanstanding

        the poor have the govt and themselves to blame…”oh poor you, yes poor me.” “Those rich people did this to you…yes, your right they did!”

        What happened to personal responsibility?

      • JUKEBOX

        The liberals made personal responsibility illegal.

      • Bella

        AMEN Lastmanstanding!

      • Marten

        Yes, Lastmanstanding and CHARITY is a VICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • grady

        Yes he did say the poor would always be with us, because he knew wed have liberals.

      • Alex

        lol

      • JeffH

        :)

      • Angel Wannabe

        Robert Smith, it’s a well known fact they’re is a war on against Christianity in this country.__It’s also a well known fact, that the Constitution is only for a Religious moral people as Our in-alienable rights Came from God.
        Governments sole purpose was to protect those rights and keep the American people safe from foreign enemies. The United States Corporation feels the Constitution is little more than a nuisance, Hence the reason for the push of atheism among the American people. Such as public prayer, Flag killing, squashing patriotism and plain over reaching into our, private and religious lives!__ If the elites kill the Constitution once and for all, They kill the republic. The fall of the Constitution, means the rise of NWO agenda occupation__MY question to YOU is, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET IT?

      • Patriot II

        Angel, you are right on!! The real issue here is how a certain unnamed entity is really trying to DESTROY US, so OWG can have its “World BreadBasket”
        We have one of the most Powerfull weapons in the World FOOD! Once they get it from us we are done. You are right Angel, most people think it is our Localized (US) issue. Can’t treat the symptom if we don’t know the real cause!!

        Patriot II

      • Angel Wannabe

        PatriotII, Thats it, if the TPTB try to keep us stupid regarding the facts, then we have nothing to fight them with, we will end up succumbing!

      • Old Henry

        Speaking of controlling our Bread Basket..

        http://cowboybyte.com/877/might-have-to-dust-off-the-boxing-mitts/#com
        ment-20587

      • Angel Wannabe

        Old Henry, Don’t know if your familiar with David Barton of Wall Builders

        http://www.wallbuilders.com/

        He has one the most extensive archive of original documents pertaining to the founders and American History there is. Check it out. I have many of his books.

      • Old Henry

        Good link Angel Wannabe. No, I had not heard of him.

        Thanks!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Old Henry, David Barton is often a guest of Glenn Beck’s shows on Fox and Now on GBTV, he was just on last week. David Barton also has I believe an hour long radio broadcast everyday, check his site for info. You will not be disappointed!

      • DaveH

        Angel,
        Why do you want to behave like the Liberals and alienate a large portion of Freedom lovers, just because they don’t believe in a supernatural being as you do?
        Did you know that 72% of the scientists in the National Academy of Scientists disbelieve that there is a God? And only 7% believe there is a God?
        Did you know that over 75% of the people in prison are Christians? And over 95% of prisoners believe there is a God?
        http://www.thinkatheist.com/notes/Percentage_of_atheists

        Freedom works because People are happier when they can believe what they want. People are happier when they can keep their own hard earned money. People are happier when they can choose their own lifestyles free from the coercive force of others.
        You weaken our argument for Freedom by making it into a religious issue. It isn’t.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Daveh, I’ll respond once, the Constitution was and is for a wholly Moral and religeous people dave. The facts don’t change just because you don’t believe in God. If anyone feels left out of the equation in this agrument, the responcibility is “they’re own”. No one is forcing you to believe in God, but the facts don’t change, just because you don’t agree. we discussed this before Dave and it gets us no where, I think were on the same side regardless of opinion. nuff said

      • Angel Wannabe

        DaveH, I hit submit before I wanted__in regards to your”Did you know that over 75% of the people in prison are Christians? And over 95% of prisoners believe there is a God?”-

        Being a Christian and following the word, will in time provide wisdom, but we still have free will, and being a christian won’t keep your azz outta trouble, if you don’t make a conscience to avoid it. Its a choice._-If you don’t want to get burned, then maintain a safe distance, from the fire.

      • crisscross

        As our Founders stated, freedom is based upon the laws of nature and nature’s God. Otherwise, there is no standard upon which we can truly rely. The Founders understood the folly of expecting a republic to last with accountability only to man, no matter how “rational.” Disagree all you want, but that’s how we wisely started. Unfortunately, our abandonment of this fundamental truth will be how we end.

      • Alex

        Dave, only atheists and people who want to remain morally or ethically unaccountable consider any talk of God a problem. So I have to completely disagree with you. We talk of God, and you aren’t alienated.

        Now, did YOU know that if 72% of scientists weren’t pushing a heathen agenda, forcing our children to be brought up in a godless country with eroding morals, that our prisons might be a lot emptier?
        Did you know that the reason so many prisoners turn to God is that even an atheist will seek out the higher power they know in their gut exists when they hit rock bottom and have nowhere else to turn?

        I also think it’s in poor taste to say that 75% of the people in prison are Christians. Chances are, most of them weren’t until they got there. Real Christians don’t commit crimes that get them put in prison.

        In actual point of fact, if everyone behaved like a true God-fearing Christian, our prisons would be empty. If no one stole, no one would be in prison for larceny. If no one murdered, there wouldn’t be anyone on death row. If no one committed adultery, we wouldn’t have a family values crisis. If everyone had one God, there wouldn’t be moral decay where the first amendment is used to protect pornography and the burning of the American flag.

        I will agree with you that people are happier when they can believe what they want to believe. I also believe they are happier when they keep their hard earned money, choose their own lifestyles, etc. But these are aspects of freedom. And the atheist agenda in politics infringes on those freedoms.

        Through the atheist liberal agenda, the ten commandments have been taken down from state and federal buildings. They weren’t hurting anyone. It violates the free practice of religion for the government to mandate their removal, since doing so institutes the religion of atheism. The same agenda has outlawed prayer in school, has teachers chastising students for having a bible out in plain sight, and has caused the pledge of allegiance to be omitted. The same agenda pushed for legalized abortion, despite the fact that an unborn child is considered a child in every other instance, particularly in criminal court. The agenda is pushing the “it’s okay to be gay” motto to young children, as though they actually need more fuel to fire their teenage confusion.

        I can go on and on. The fact is, this country’s problems stem from godlessness. If you don’t want to believe in God, that is your choice. But most other people either believe in God or tolerate God, and it has been my experience that those who have a problem with things centered around God are actually struggling with the fact of accountability in the face of their own wickedness, and their desire to continue living in wickedness.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Alex, well said!__God knew we were i’m-perfect, Bottom line, God gave us guidelines to go by, but still have free will, its all a choice. Its plain to see what has happened to the country now that MANS AGENDA has taken over Gods Agenda?!!__still, belief or no, is STILL A choice.

      • DaveH

        My brother and his wife go to church every sunday. Both are Sociopaths who will do whatever it takes to achieve their goals, Damn morality.

        I don’t put my fellow human beings down for believing what they choose to believe. But I do put them down when they Force their way on others. Yes, the prayer banning is wrong. Yes, the forcible taking down of the Ten Commandments is wrong. But how many of you so-called God-fearing people condone murder in other countries who have in no way attacked the United States?
        I follow the Ten Commandments more closely than any religious person I’ve ever known. Just saying you believe in God does not make you good people. Good people respect their fellow human beings for how they treat other people, and they treat their fellow human beings respectfully. Not-so-good people think saying they believe in a God somehow gives them a free pass to disrespect and force their way on their fellow human beings.
        Sorry, people. I will judge you based on your goodness towards your fellow human beings. Saying you believe in a God, who you cannot in any way sense, means nothing to me.
        Now behave yourselves and quit acting like controlling Liberals.

      • DaveH

        And Angel, here it is. Please show me where it says that it was created for a “wholly Moral and religeous people”:
        http://www.cato.org/constitution/constitution_en.html

        You’re making stuff up, just like the Liberals do.

      • Old Henry

        DaveH:

        You say “you believe in a God, who you cannot in any way sense”

        Dave, I can sense God Almighty and those who have a true relationship with God can also sense Him.

        That being said, I understand how as a non-believer (and very analitical person) you do not understand “sensing God”.

        Here is an experiment for you, and please do not feel that I am trying to push my beliefs on you or force God on you.

        Just try talking to God. YOu can do that quietly in your heart / mind or, say, go out in your back yard and just try talking to God. He may, or may not, answer you with his Holy Spirit right away, but if you seek Him out He will eventually answer you.

        What do you have to loose? (Afraid He might prove you wrong?) No one need know other than you and God.

        I remember you telling us about your brother and his wife in the past. Going to church does not automatically make you a Christian. Perhaps they are trying to keep up appearances. Your description of your life & beliefs sound like they run more parallel to Christians than you relatives.

        Dave, you truly have me scratching my head. Atheists being godless are overwhelmingly evil by nature. It seems you are not. I wish we could sit down in the driveway in the sun with a cold Miller LIte (I know you don’t drink) and get to know one another. I do pray for you. Even though I do not know you, God does.

      • DaveH

        How can you make such statement, Henry — “Atheists being godless are overwhelmingly evil by nature”? Wow. I consider it evil to discriminate against people who have done you no harm.
        I’m feeling a little crabby today, so here goes:
        You imagine an all-powerful God who is everywhere and all-knowing.
        You can justify his existence because how else could we have gotten here? Yet, when asked how he (or she) got here, the answer is that he has no beginning and no end. How convenient. Many of you talk about the word of God, but there is no word of God, only the words that people have attributed to their imaginary God.
        That’s fine with me, because I don’t care what people believe as long as they don’t use those beliefs as an excuse to Force their ways on me. But don’t condescend me because I don’t believe in an imaginary being that doesn’t exist.

      • DaveH

        Now, can we please quit talking about Religion? I have no interest in converting you guys, and I can guarantee that you won’t convert me. I’ve been there, done that.
        Let’s use that morality that “God” gave you, and get along with each other.

      • Angel Wannabe

        DaveH, Its all about choice Dave._ I left for Lancaster Pa quite sometime ago and just returned, so in essence, you kept the ball rolling talking about religion__you have your links and I have mine__hear is my last word_-The other link will follow_-The first being the Declaration

        http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=25685

      • Angel Wannabe

        First of all DaveH, I’ll be quiet when I’m damned good and ready. secondly, I don’t think I responded to you through any of this, YOU felt the need to get in it with me. I won’t be quite about this, I have free speech, just like you and threatened no one, so forget getting me to shut up. You have to choose to either respond or not__IF YA DON’T LIKE what I post, then IGNORE IT!

        I’m not inspired nor defeated by your links, if atheism is your choice, why do you care what I think???___My old man don’t control me and You sure as hell arent going to either!____its enough!__Stay outta my conversations with others!

      • Old Henry

        Angel Wannabe:

        Get outta the wrong side of the bed today? Wow!

        Ya made me smile!

        I do find DaveH to be very interesting, intelligent and pretty considerate, even with folks like eddie and denniso who I can tell really ruffle his feathers.

      • DaveH

        Angel,
        You aren’t really Christian. If you were, you would know that Christ taught tolerance.
        As far as your comment to stay out of your conversations, I don’t recall Robert inviting you into a conversation. We don’t need invitations here.
        You started the fray with your ridiculous comment — “It’s also a well known fact, that the Constitution is only for a Religious moral people as Our in-alienable rights Came from God”.
        You are the kind of people that many came to America to escape from. Bullies who think it’s their way or the highway.
        I don’t look at you, Angel, as being representative of Good Christians. If I did, I would be on the side of the Liberals.

      • Angel Wannabe

        daveh, your not very tolerant either, if you expect me to keep quiet! :)

      • DaveH

        Did I say that, Eddie Jr.? :)

      • Angel Wannabe

        DaveH _I don’t really have a name to call you, and only consider you someone that claims hes for the America, pushes links out like a hen lays eggs__ and thinks he’s always right. Sorry without religion, I find you__egocentric & empty__ By that I mean you have a problem in believing in a higher power than yourself!__enough for tonight__shower and bed! :)

      • DaveH

        Do you honestly think that believing in a supernatural being, who doesn’t exist, makes you something special? You are severely deluded.

      • Lost in Paradise

        I got it years ago, and I am so very angry that it brings tears to my eyes. There is not enough intellect or bravery, in this country to bring about a succesful revolution, and that is the only way to save this country. Ron Paul would be a good president if there were 500 more like him to run congress and the rest of the government. We will vote, vote,and Vote, and when its all said and done we will not have accomplished much at all.

      • Dan az

        Hey Angel
        Please check out this link its food for thought.You wont regret it.
        http://kacperpostawski.com/blog/2011/08/16/quickening/

      • Angel Wannabe

        Dan Az, I saved it in Favs, I’ll leten to it later__ I’m listening to Beck Radio right now___NOW THAT OUGHTA BRING OUT a LIBERAL RESPONSE!!!! ROFLMAO!!___WHICH IS WHY I SAID IT!___:)

      • Dan az

        :) :)

      • Old Henry

        Angel Wannabe:

        Speaking of which, wheeeerrrreeee’s eddie and denniso? Last Friday’s discussion carried over into Saturday afternoon / evening! I even did some posting on Sunday.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Old Henry I don’t know where they’ve been… I haven’t been on much either all summer, just too much to do!

      • DonnieB

        There are many Dem’s, RINOs and atheists liberals , who want to take over this country and the Constitution is definitely in their way.

        As an atheist myself, I find myself in agreement with quite a bit of the political aspirations of the Religious Right. Not everything because they would be happy to take over the country for god.

        Take a look at conservative atheism. A small group to be sure but the way this country should be run. Those of us in this group find ourselves attacked from both sides. There are a few sites where you can find some honest political discussions. Check out Yahoo’s Groups – Conservative Atheists. Not the only place to find us but the one that I am most familiar with.

        This is NOT a Christian nation. The government is to be neutral on religion (remember the Second amendment?). Unfortunately, many Christians or Muslims think that if the government is not pushing their particular religious agenda, then they believe that they are being discriminated against.

      • Angel Wannabe

        DonnieB, Hit up wallbuilders.com, as I’ve stated before, they have the largest concentration of original American documents known today. Incuding hand held Bibles given to each member of congress when sworn in._AGAIN,Your free to believe or not tp beleive as you wish, but facts don’t change, just because you don’t believe in them. Just sayin’…

      • Karolyn

        Angel – I think this is the first time I’ve seen you make up your own “facts.”

      • Angel Wannabe

        karolyn …mmm….I see nothings changed. Well darlin’ ya won’t know the truth unless ya go find it yourself, cuz I sure as h*ll ain’t providing it, even when is provided ya still refuse to see__But hey, have a great day though!

      • Old Henry

        Angel wannabe!

        LOL!! Yer onna roll today girl!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Old Henry, there a couple folks on here who like to yank my chain, I let’em once in a while!__Whatever folks need to think about me I let them, I have my own truth I live by__I don’t let other opinions dictate the truth for me__its all good though! :)

      • Karolyn

        Angel – Same here. Isn’t that what really matters? That we are happy with ourselves and our beliefs? It IS all good! Have a peaceful night! :-)

      • Brian

        It is not a well known fact that the Constitution is only for religious moral people. That is horse sh** made up by fundamentalists. In FACT, the Constitution says exactly who it was created for…”ourselves and our posterity.”

        I always crack up when someone assumes that atheism means all the things you claim. I am an atheist and I abhor what the government has done and is doing. The cause is and always has been liberty. But for you to condemn atheists is just ridiculous.

      • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

        I have a problem with atheists bringing all the lawsuits to expunge anything they consider a reference to God. To me it is another form of political correctness. Believe what you want to believe but quit trying to turn society on its head. You control the horizontal and the vertical, so turn the channel. Don’t make taxpayers pay to fight your lawsuits. When it comes to forcing people to accept one’s beliefs, I’d say atheists are doing a pretty fair job of that themselves.

      • Karolyn

        ” the Constitution is only for a Religious moral people”

        WHAT? The Constitution is for ALL Americans! What about people who believe in a God but not in religion? What about people who believe in a different concept of God? Atheists don’t count?

        The Higher Power/Universal Mind/God/whatever you want to call it loves all of us, as we are each a part of the whole; and as such are each equaly important.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Angel Wannabe

        Bull sh*t.Religion is the problem.Our founding fathers never did endorse any religion.Religion is an opiate for the weak minded,a mental crutch for the ignorant and above all we don’t need it.

      • Angel Wannabe

        coalminer, hot d*amn you liberals guys are out in force today!__I just love gettin you guys all riled up! :)

      • JeffH

        Angel Wannabe, a triple :) to you! LMAO! You go girl!

      • Angel Wannabe

        JeffH :) :) :)

      • ronn

        Angel,
        Just wanted to inform you that Barton is a charlatan, and is involved with the ecumenical movement. Check out the website Understand the Times International. The have some recent articles about Barton as well some archived posts.

      • Angel Wannabe

        ronn, Neither D.Barton or G.Beck believe in a one world church,(one of ANYTHING, be it a king or a church, is the reason we left England in the first place) they do however believe that most faiths can stand together in unity for Israel and America and the Greater good of Man. Trying to make they’re beliefs more than what it is isn’t going cut it here, not with me anyway!__have a good one!

      • Patriot II

        Bob, here is how I see it;

        The Blob! (Our Current Government) takes 10 Government workers to do the Job 1 efficient entrepreneur can do. Caesar was more like Hercules compare to our current government (Blob), who on the other hand is more like Jabba the Hut! It eats our Money and Craps out Regulation to limit our earnings, so it then needs to take a larger percentage every time to sustain it’s big Fat But!

        Patriot II

      • Raggs

        robert.. shake hands the the devil when you get into hell maybe he will cut you a deal.

      • bob wire

        The Roman Empire was supported by pillage & plunder. The Elite lived in Rome and enjoyed a comfortable life. I’ve not thought of the “Church” as crafting the “Dark Ages” but there is much to what you say and worthy consideration, as we find some of the worlds most advanced thinkers of the time after the fall Rome lived in fear of the church and were indeed suppressed by the church.

        The Roman empire was on a fiat money system and thrived until Cesar demanded it be changed to gold. In so doing, he became a target and was killed while the gold system was employed and enjoyed by the fewer and fewer elite. The fall of Rome started, as more and more became less supportive and obedient as the elite viewed less and less worthy.

        Now what all of this means, I’m not exactly sure. I’d enjoy hearing other peoples thoughts.

        Mankind has always used the “Chief & Witch Doctor” approach to govern the “faithful”, called it a host of many Names as it seeks dominion and willful obedience.

        God’s kingdom is in heaven (or the after life) but here on earth it’s a roll your own situation. The guy that dies with the most toys a self declared winner with some willful popular support.

        I’m not convinced a “gold standard” is the cure-all answer. ~ value is a perception, perception is easy enough to alter.

        People holding vast amounts of gold would hold one view while people holding vast amounts of pretty guns and hungry ugly people might disagree.

      • DaveH
      • DaveH
      • DaveH
      • Lost in Paradise

        Thanks for the info DaveH, but I already know the scoop and maybe even the outcome. Besides, do you believe everything you read? I do not. I have been watching this coming for years, and could do nothing about it, and still cannot.

      • Old Henry

        You need to change your moniker to Professor Dave…

      • bob wire

        So?, what don’t kill you will make you stronger. There’s a lot of truth to that. We see it even in modern medicine.

        So when you burn down the barn to get rid of a few “rats” you need to be willing and in a position to not need a barn. If the rats are eating up 25% of what you have stored in the barn and you can’t find a good mouser that will keep the “rat” population under control. Lazy overfed cats!

      • DaveH

        Lost,
        Of course I don’t believe everything I read. I couple my extensive studies with experience and draw sensible conclusions, like I hope you do.

      • Old Henry

        bob wire:

        Trouble is when ya burn down the barn the rats will scamper out.

        However, I guess you can shoot the rats as they run out. Come to think of it, that makes the job easier…

      • Patriot II

        Bob Wire,

        Have you ever heard the the old saying; “There are no U-Hauls behind Hearses”

      • Dan az

        Patriot
        No I hadn’t thats a good one thanks! :)

      • Old Henry

        No Patriot II, but I have heard the country song with the line “I’ve never seen a hearse with a luggage rack on top”.

        Can’t rmember the artist. Brad Paisly perhaps?

      • bob wire

        No, I have not heard that one, ha ha, he he ☺

        Some say, death makes us all equal but I don’t believe that.

        Call me a sucker, but I do believe in the opportunity to transcending to a higher plane, beyond the physical one that we’ve been born into. I consider this existence “Sand Box 101″ and it’s up to each of us how we live and conduct ourselves. Like Art Carney said to Ralph Cramdom, ” The first thing you learn when working in the sewer Ralph, All that glitters is not gold.”

        This desire for gold has been the undoing for many men and they have wasted a life.

        Anyone ever watch the movie “There will be Blood”? an excellent film. It’s full of everything that men lust for and might ever hold. Setting in north America early 1900′s and the quest for gold and finding oil instead. It’s full of details,viewpoints, methods mixed with rich human drama of the times. A “must see” for any person over the age of 50. Goolge it, if nothing else!

        I believe much would be lost to younger people as they “assume” so much that has been hard fought by the people that came before them.

        A 30 year old today is just to close to Sponge Bob, to get anything across. I’ve all but quit even trying.

      • Old Henry

        bob wire, you’re on a roll today! LOL! I really enjoyed the “Honeymooners” What was the name of Art Carney’s character?

        To the moon Alice!

        Yeah, Carlin was good. The hippie dippy weatherman, with hour hippie dippy weather man…

      • JeffH

        OH. Ed Norton!

      • Old Henry

        Yes! Thanks JeffH. Sheesh, I don’t know why I simply could not remember that!

        My brain musta had a hube cramp. Maybe I shuld shove a banna in my ear.

      • JeffH

        OH, same here…I hadda look it up too… :)

      • Al Sieber

        BobW, your full of sh!tt, you know nothing about gold you’re a idiot or drunk on drugs or both. you know nothing about the monetary system and can’t be taught like most of the liberals here. give it up !!!

      • Al Sieber

        Your real name is probably sponge bob instead of bob wire.

      • bob wire

        Oh! are you renaming people now Al? ~

        You speak as if you know me Al. I’d prefer you use my screen name and cease this ruse of over familiarity. Take me face value as I take you. If I was choosing friends here you’d be at the end of a very long list.

        Unless of course you wish to push the boundaries of civility and Mr. Livingston’s patience, I will spar with you if you actually make a statement or offer something worthy consideration.

        I have a rich long and wide past, a bright opportunistic future and know the joys of being found in high demand today. B1tch slapping a smarta$$ around has always brought me small pleasure. I’ve dodged too many bullets and swam with too many sharks to put up with your surly lip Sir. Be so advised with you future comments directed my way.

      • Old Henry

        Interesting post, bob wire.

        “Mankind has always used the “Chief & Witch Doctor” approach to govern the “faithful”, called it a host of many Names as it seeks dominion and willful obedience.”
        Here is a link to help enlighten and question the “Which Doctor” in DC.

        http://dont-tread-on.me/a-decade-of-denial-and-deception/

      • bob wire

        George Carlin, ~ I miss him, his logic and out spoken antics. He’s a hometown Fort Worth boy ya know?

        “The American Dream” because you have to be asleep to believe it!”

      • Karolyn

        I recently read that the fall of Rome was also attributed to the depletion of the soil, thereby resulting in no food. That is why only grapes and olives grow in part of Italy.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Karolyn,
        The fall of Rome? Soil depletion? Don’t forget, Christianity was also a contributing factor.

      • DaveH

        Community efforts? Sounds kinda like Communism, doesn’t it?
        Actually the Romans collapsed in a very similar fashion to where we’re headed, Robert. The leaders did too much empire building, and generally spent too much money, in the end buying off the populace with lavish distributions of wealth. Then after being impoverished, they were overrun by the hordes of enemies that they created with their empire building.
        We don’t need to go back so far as the Roman Empire to get some common sense. Well, at least those of us who can learn by experience don’t. All we need do is look at all the failures of Socialism in modern history — Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea …
        Or look at the countries with the biggest Government regulatory apparatus:
        http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

        Only somebody working for the system, or feeding at the trough, can tout Big Government as the solution with a straight face.

      • Andrew

        rome was finished when it tried to be friendly to its enemies. it let their enemy’s armys exist within the roman empire boundaries. these roman enemy’s were very largely uneducated savages, kill and plunder and move on were there methods of operation, not rebuilding. they sacked rome and destroyed every thing else they could destroy. it was the catholic church that preserved any intellegience and helped bring the known world out of the dark ages. the savages still existed and operated through the dark ages.
        Christianity saved our world period.

      • bob wire

        I never noticed Rome trying to be overly “friendly” to anyone but Romans and toward the end not even them. Nero wasn’t what you’d call benevolent or fatherly. He was an interbred nut case and wasting air something else could breath.

        As far a Christian saving the world, perhaps but many would disagree. And I’m not convinced that we are out of the woods yet. Even Christian writing testify to that as fact.

        There will always be wars and rumor of war and pestilence upon the land.

        I think of it more a game of musical chairs, as long as the music plays, we are all in the game and think of ourselves as “contenders”

      • eddie47d

        Rome loved slaves Andrews and where do you think they got those slaves from? From invading and plundering other nations.

      • DaveH

        That’s so rich. A Liberal talking about slavery, while he advocates forcibly taking money from others. You are clueless, aren’t you Eddie?

      • Old Henry

        Yep DaveH. Last week I caught a program on the History Channel about Rome from 400 BC forward. The hair on my neck began to stand up as I thought “That is us TODAY”!

        Scary, very, very scary.

      • Oxford

        Sorry, Rob…you don’t know what you’re talking about. First, we don’t have a Ceasar here…we are a Constitutional Republic with a LIMITED federal government…so Ceasar doesn’t even apply or rendering ANYTHING to him…nor to the Federal Government beyond it’s limited juridiction which was supposed to be supported by foreign trade tariffs and imposts…but what has been created is a prostituted, bastardized society of elitists that enslave others for their own benefit. Wake up and get educated!

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Many of our Presidents have acted like Dictators. Jackson, Lincoln, Johnson, Carter, and Obama for example.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Failed to mention Wilson,Teddy, and Franklin

      • Lost in Paradise

        OH! That must be some good stuff you are smoking!

      • Old Henry

        Oxford:

        If you rearange the letters in Ceasar you can spell Obama. LOL!

      • Alex

        No, we don’t have a Caesar. We have an Obama. Caesar was a name, not a title, as I’m sure you well know. And Rome was a Republic, just as we are. Until the day Caesar crossed the Rubicon, just as Obama has stationed a 20,000-man standing army on American soil and has established the rough equivalent of a Praetorian guard. Rome couldn’t print money, but they did debase it by issuing gold-plated lead. Rome suffered massive inflation, as we are now. Rome tried price fixing to stop the inflationary hemmorage, just as we have in the past, and will again in the future if things are not brought under control. Rome had troops stationed across the known world, just as we do now. Rome made enemies across the known world through their occupation, just as we are doing. Rome allowed foreigners to be part of the Senate, and to eventually hold the consulship, just as we have done with our congress, and have likely done concerning our bogus Kenyan president. Rome eventually spread itself so thin that an invading force toppled the capital. We are spread thin right now, and have already been attacked. More or worse are not impossible, no matter how many grandmothers we strip of their adult diapers in the name of stopping terrorism.

        So don’t be so condescending. We are following in Rome’s footsteps. To say, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” is not such an outrageous statement. The government, as it exists, owns us.

      • bob wire

        of course it does. ~ Government cleans up ! where and whenever something need cleaning. ~ You die in place, government won’t allow you to just lie there. They put you in the ground and take what in your pockets, take any holdings you might have and bill your family if they can find a paper trail.

        Like a freight train, in case of any tie, you loose.

        People die, institutions live much longer. But they can die too.

      • JeffH

        What I find most interesting about Robert Smith’s post is how he re-directed the comments and easily created a disruption to the thread. He mentions “christians” and the in-fighting and arguements begin.

        Can’t anybody else see what his intent was?

        C’mon folks, I know you’re all smarter than that!

      • bob wire

        No not really Jeff. Robert’s comment was out of context. ~ The render unto Cesar comment by Jesus was an answer offered to Pilot when JC was being questioned about his title as “King of the Jews” and the establishments concerns that Cesar held dominion. ~ so that was a superfluous comment. JC was on trial for his life before the most powerful man in the land. A man that would hand you your head in a heart beat if he found you “off color”.

        We revel in the notion that P.P. found JC without fault and void any crime against man or country. But the noisy crowd ruled the day. Jesus did a splendid job representing himself that dark day. But he was lobbing the wrong people. The clergy wanted him dead and they got their way. The “church” was victorious! Yea CHURCH!

        That Christian took over Rome and screwed everything up was pure bull$hit. ~Christian didn’t take over Rome but had to hid out in caves. A hundred years later some Roman did accept Christianity, but many keep their idols and worshiped both, chosen to be better safe then sorry.

        But Robert’s post it did spark discussion of Rome and Roman history and the parallels we see happening today. I ignored Roberts posting finding it absurd but I do see your point.

      • Damon

        Jesus, also said follow the LAW of the land, and our law does not require one to pay a FEDERAL PAYROLL TAX~~~~ If you don’t work for the federal government and live in Puerto Rico, ect. ect. Then you don’t have to pay. Write your legislator if you don’t believe, its the biggest lie in American history.

      • crystal

        I know I’ve said this to you before, but it was Christianity that took Europe out of the Dark Ages after the Fall of Rome.

      • bob wire

        No, not really, history fails to support your statement. The civilized world went into the dark ages where brighter minds had to hide their thoughts as later as Leonardo De Venice who found it necessary to write in crypt less the “simpletons” expose him as a “blasphemer” and demand their “justice”

      • john

        Rob,the ages dark came when the last desciple (sp)was murdered,Jesus said that his word (the light) would not be heard again throughout the land.The people preaching then did so with out GOD’S approval.hence,the dark ages. There is not a doubt in my mind that this will not even slow you down,you hatred of any thing Christian comes through very well. I shall pray for you.

      • Susan

        Where did you get such idiotic information? If you’re going to “quote” things, how about getting them right?

      • Lewis Munn

        One minor error.

        The Dark Ages were a time when the rulers called themselves “Christian”, but did NOT teach what Christ taught, or act as Christ acted.

        You need to be sure when you complain about “Christians” you are talking about those who are converted to following the teachings of Jesus Christ in their livea. NOT someone who says they are christian and then proceeds to violate what Christ plainly tsught!!

        It is a mistake many people make. You have heard of the RINO? You are blaming those who are CINO. “Christians In Name Only”

        Hey, if it does not walk like a Christian, does not act like a Christian, does not tell the truth like a Christian…ever occur to you it might NOT BE a Christian, but a CINO, a pretender, with NO heart and mind faith??

      • Al Sieber

        Right on brother!!!

      • bob wire

        That’s the way I see it Lewis. It’s was more in spite of Christians.

    • Old Henry

      Very interesting poll results DaveH!

      “Strange” we do not see them reported, but then again…

      I forwarded the newsletter to several people as well as your link.

    • Alex

      Funny how the allegedly unelectable Ron Paul is in first place with 19.74%. And you STILL don’t hear about him in the media. After all, even with enough egg on his face to be an omlette, Rick Perry is “the clear winner.”

      • DaveH

        I’ve been watching the Tampa debates for about 30 minutes now, and so far Perry has been given about twice as much face time as the other candidates by CNN. I will finish watching before I pass judgement though.

      • DaveH

        Okay, I finished and that ratio held. Rick Perry had twice as much face time as any other candidate. CNN has obviously picked our candidate for us.

      • Alex Frazier

        The media picked him the moment he announced his candidacy. But the polls are telling the truth. Ron Paul is presently in the lead, and won the California straw poll by a landslide. He got more votes than Perry and Romney combined.

        The media can lick my crack. If I knew who to cuss out at my local station, I’d have done it already. A bunch of establishment stooges.

      • DaveH

        Libertarians scare the hell out of moguls. With Free Markets they would have to compete for a living instead of running to their Government buddies to get special subsidies, quotas, tariffs, targeted regulations, or other forms of Government protection.
        With Free Markets, upstarts can be giant killers. The moguls know that, and they will do everything in their power to silence Libertarians.

    • Lewis Munn

      Too few and too late.

      Our educational system has suppressed logical thinking for fun stuff. And suppressed the study of what made America great…too old-fashioned, and not enough fun.

      Rome went this way too! But we do not learn this in public schoo9ls anymore!!

    • OB1

      Yes, DaveH: Saturday’s GOP Straw Poll: (Notes:Texas GOP just cancelled their Straw GOP Poll!)

      http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/09/17/california.straw.poll/

      Ron Paul won the GOP Straw Poll overwhelmingly this Saturday. CNN reported it on their site then took it down! Here’s the numbers:

      Texas Rep. Ron Paul won a California straw poll, the state Republican Party announced in a statement Saturday night.

      A total of 833 ballots were cast during the straw poll, the statement said.

      Paul won with 44.9% of the votes, Texas Gov. Rick Perry came in second with 29.3% of the votes, and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney came in third with 8.8% of the votes.

      Yes, the AP and the rest of the elites are terrified of him. He cannot be bought.
      You will not here this on any main stream media, not even Fox News. He has won
      or came close by 140 votes in Iowa of winning every Straw Poll. Everywhere.

    • OB1

      DaveH: (Notes:Texas GOP just cancelled their Straw GOP Straw Poll!)

      http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/09/17/california.straw.poll/

      Ron Paul won the GOP Straw Poll overwhelmingly this Saturday. CNN reported it on their site then took it down! Here’s the numbers:

      Texas Rep. Ron Paul won a California straw poll, the state Republican Party announced in a statement Saturday night.

      A total of 833 ballots were cast during the straw poll, the statement said.

      Paul won with 44.9% of the votes, Texas Gov. Rick Perry came in second with 29.3% of the votes, and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney came in third with 8.8% of the votes.

      Yes, the AP and the rest of the elites are terrified of him. He cannot be bought.
      You will not here this on any main stream media, not even Fox News. He has won
      or came close by 140 votes in Iowa of winning every Straw Poll. Everywhere.

      • DaveH

        Why would Texas cancel their straw poll vote? I thought that was the state which was going to lead us back to Freedom? Of course, I’m joking. I worked in Texas for 3 years. They don’t know any more about Freedom than any other state I’ve been to.

      • bob wire

        So true, a dip stick in Texas is a dip stick in Bama. There is no difference.

      • Christin

        OB1,

        Wow, I had not heard that… kind of out of the loop for a few days. The media is really pushing Perry and Romney and only mentioning a few of the others, but essentially leaving Ron Paul out… that speaks volumes… we know the media pushes the winners TPTB have picked.

        Thanks for sharing the straw poll… guess if Texas decided not to have a poll they are afraid Constitutionalist Ron Paul will win over Globalist Perry.

      • bob wire

        As bad as I hate to say it, the time long since gone when Texas was a Stand up, front and center , in your face state. We have been assimilated by limp wrist, do nothing fagots north of Oklahoma.

        Don’t depend on Texas leading the way. We have been overran by people looking for an easier life.

        and damn it hurts!

        bw

    • Lee

      I believe I deserve to keep 100%! Can you say FairTax? You only pay tax, if you purchase something. As a nation, we need to push for getting rid of the IRS, and FED. We need to scream loud and long. We need to push our representatives to implement HR 25, S 13 FairTAx act. Go to FairTax.org, and learn more. This class warfare has to stop. It is the rich who create jobs for the rest of us slobs. The unions just take money and mess up the system.
      We need to get rid of the Washington Thugs NOW! Everything that is happening is already scripted, and we need to change the script.

      • DaveH

        The Fair Tax isn’t fair. Just ask the retailers that will be assigned to being tax collectors:
        http://mises.org/daily/1814

        And we would still have a large portion of the population who would have Representation without Taxation (just as bad as its opposite).

    • Iva Raggon
    • Judy

      I agree 100%, it’s time people wake up and understand that politians work not for the people, but for themselves. They should only hold office for eight year terms and no longer. They should be on SS and Medicare just like every American when they reach the age of 67yrs. They should not get a raise every year. SS is not an intitlement, my husband worked 35yrs at his job, and we are still paying income taxes, and my husband is 73yrs old now. We the people have to petition, and stop the government from spending the peoples hard earned money. These politians have the best benefits, health and retirement and we support it.Something is wrong with this picture.

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