Why does the “mainstream press” condemn the Catholic Church for allowing predatory homosexuals to destroy the lives of boys, while simultaneously condemning the Boy Scouts of America for not allowing precisely the same thing in their organization?

Please Jay. You’re comparing apples and oranges.

I Am a Man

By Greg Quinlan

Why have gay activists instigated media attention over ex-gays and the husband of Presidential candidate Michelle Bachmann?

Apparently, Mr. Bachmann, who has a PhD in clinical psychology, operates several counseling centers which also offer services to homosexual clients seeking to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions. But because even one ex-gay proves that homosexual behavior is not innate or immutable, the gay lobby’s fear of their former members results in false claims and attacks aimed at preventing homosexuals from exercising their right to self-determination. They cannot bear to have even one homosexual leave homosexuality, hence their outrage at Dr. Bachmann.

I know because I am ex-gay myself. I suffer more harassment as a former homosexual than I ever did as an out and proud homosexual.

The ex-gay community includes thousands of former homosexuals like myself who benefited from counseling. We did not choose our homosexual feelings, but we did exercise our right to seek help to change those feelings. As a registered nurse, I saw hundreds of gay men die of AIDS before I finally left the gay lifestyle.

Contrary to the myths being generated by outraged homosexuals, counseling for unwanted same-sex attractions is not prohibited by any medical association. Unhappy homosexuals are not children in need of parental permission and can freely choose their own therapeutic treatment just like anyone else.

The Bachmann incident demonstrates that as homosexuals gain more civil rights, heterosexuals are losing theirs. Because gays are a wealthy and politically powerful minority, they claim access to media attention, political power and corporate influence that middle America does not have.

Continued:http://americansfortruth.com/issues/the-agenda-glbtq-activist-groups/

Jay,
Your bias has blinded you. The Boy Scouts actions may be presented as an attempt to prevent pedophiles from assaulting the kids, but in reality they are trying to prevent all homosexuals from acting as leaders based on an unfair assumption that they will pervert these young minds. Let’s not forget that there have been many cases of “straight” Scout leaders turning out to be pedophiles. We had a situation like that with a school bus driver/Scout leader who was found to have child porn on his computer. I agree that pedophiles need to be prosecuted and known pedophiles should be disallowed form participation in Scouts or any other child leadership program. Most of the gay men who have been drummed out of the Scouts were generally considered good leaders prior to their outing, were often Scouts themselves as kids and in some cases were Eagle Scouts. The one thing they were not is guilty of being anything more than gay.

It was printed in the Gay Community News. Obviously the gay community was ok with the ranting and ravings of Mark Swift, as there was no criticism levelled at Mr. Smith. Also, not only was Mr. Smith’s statement printed and circulated, but it was never retracted. Did not the “Gay Community News” stop to consider before printing Mr. Smith’s outrageous comment? No, because obviously they concurred!!!

A lot has changed in 23 years. I’m sure you wouldn’t see anything like that published again. I would also wonder about that particular publication. We don’t know how large a publication it was or how large its readership. You know that there will always be radicals on any side and many of them could rightly be labeled as insane.

It sucks to “eat crow” doesn’t it Karolyn.

I ain’t eatin’ crow, Song. I stand by everything I say.

Furthermore, God always was. He has no beginning, and He has no end. Therefore, His Word remains true, and it cannot, nor will it be ever altered. One may try, but will break themselves in pieces, and they will be no more!

I second that…well said

CJM, I have known several homosexuals in my lifetime. All of the ones that I have come into contact with, have had strange relationships with their mothers from childhood. It is as if they have been mothered to the point where they adore and admire their mothers so much that they want to be their mothers. That is just one of the basis that I put forth my opinion upon. That is a mental illness. There are other so-called reasons for deviated sexual acts of course.

Well, the ones I’e been friends with have had no such relationships with their mothers. The mos logical hypothesis I have found into why is the amount of testosterone a woman has available to her baby at a certain time in the gestation period. Of course, you do know that we all start as female.

The homosexuals that I have known have had a love/hate relationship with their mothers. They adored them when they were younger and wanted to be them, then as they grew older they began to resent them. The mothers who bore these homosexual males had actually wanted girls and had no qualms in telling others, and they lavished a mother’s love on the male child as they would have a daughter, allowing their hair to grow long with curls, giving them dolls to play with and treating them with the affection they would have lavished on a daughter. The fathers of these particular males were absent either as alcoholics or just absent emotionally. In my opinion, this was a selfish evil performed by the mother. I can only speak for what I have actually seen, and this is true.

As a little boy, I held a doll to my breast as if breast feeding. I don’t recall any of this though. I am only told so. Am I homosexual? No. Do I love my mother? Yes. When I was a teenager, my dream was to be a father. Did I go out and have sex with the girls? No. Now I am married and I am a father. I find the heterosexual lifestyle very rewarding…. the rest qualifies as T.M.I.. To boil things down for others, I chose to follow a path I knew to be right. If I wanted to be a father, then I must honor the commitments I make to that end. And if I honor the commitments to my children, then I must honor their mother. If I honor their mother and am committed to a family, then I must marry a woman I love and desire to be around for time and eternity. When I was dating the woman who is now my wife, I literally ran away several times apologizing because I wanted to avoid sexual sin before marriage. She respected my desire to do this in God’s way and I think God has blessed us because of that.

If you want to talk about homosexuality, that is unnatural. Sodom and Gomorrah were wicked and ripe for destruction. Now I don’t think sexual sin was the only thing they had a problem with, however, of all the things that could be used to illustrate how wicked the cities had become this was the example provided. Translation: they were far gone so much so they did not even respect messengers from God. How far off are we? How long until God decides that it is better to move the righteous then to spare our cities, our nations?

Someone else pointed out that Christ had sinners at his dinner table. This was not uncommon. If you pay attention to the scriptures, Christ was calling the sinners to repentance, not the righteous. The irony of course is that we all sin, the difference is who among us are willing to accept the message of Christ to repent. Would Christ accept a homosexual at his dinner table? Probably. But would it be the same man or woman who left Christ’s table as who sat down there? Probably not. If we allow Christ in our lives, we can change.

And whoever quoted scriptures about “judge not” probably ought to read their scriptures a bit more too. For the scriptures warn us that with what judgment we judge others, so too will we be judged. Interesting tag there. Before I try to explain, let me go on and remind people that the scriptures also tell us to “judge righteous judgment.” Are these in conflict? Perhaps not. For if I judge sin as righteousness and righteousness as sin, then by the first “judge not” with its accompanying warning tells me that my righteousness will be judged as sin for that is how I judged others. So, the question for me really becomes, how do I learn “righteous judgment”? Now that is tough one and will probably take me beyond this life to learn. I know that. In the meantime, I pray and ask God that He will humble me to know when I judge wrongly, when I should judge, and when I should not. For example, condemn the sin but not the sinner. That is a tough one. If I would to apply this to homosexuality, my best guess is that there should be no laws of the land against it. It is a choice. Not a right choice, but a choice nonetheless. But that also means there should be no laws to support it either. So we leave the choice as a matter between God and the sinner to settle. We love the man, not their transgression. However, all this being said, I watch the laws being passed, the education system transformed, and it seems to me that man is worshiping a false god. We are setting ourselves up as the ultimate law and thus we are dooming ourselves for both temporal and spiritual destruction. That I think is what was the real problem with Sodom and Gomorrah. They were so far gone that they put their own carnal desires above all us to the point that they no longer feared God or respected God’s servants. Their sexual sins were merely a symptom of a deeper problem and the real difference between them whom God destroyed and the sinners who ate dinner with Christ.

Yes, Crystal, and he is already doing that with the black American youth. I saw a short video on some of this training–not one youth from any other ethnic/racial group was involved. He calls this his national security force and intends it to be more powerful than our own military…isn’t that scarey!?11

I wish I knew where you live, so I could send the Jehovah Witnesses to your door.

That would include atheism and every other ism you can think of! It is not religion, but rather, human nature that suffers from such affliction. At this point and time, we have the homosexuals that are forcing their religion/lifestyle into our lives. It may not be viewed as a religion, nevertheless, it cannot be argued that it is being forced, by hook or by crook, into our lives!

good point Jay

Jay,
TripleH when he claims that those that believe in God don’t have the reasoning or higher education to correctly choose must not have read the ABOVE LIST!!! I see a great many names there that could make him look like a simpleton!!!

Excluding religion does not exclude morality. Man is born moral and is corrupted by society.

Karolyn:Excluding religion does not exclude morality. Man is born moral and is corrupted by society.

Yes Karolyn, you are correct! We are moral beings, and all are born with an innate moral nature. But my question was; Who’s moral standard(s), or level(s) will decide, or dictate, the course of society?

ALL of them.

And don’t give me any of those lame extremist arguments about marrying chairs or raping kids.

Most folks know what is right and good without your god, or his lame representatives, telling them.

Rob

God does not care what man does because there is no God of any kind.

Nevertheless hicusdicus, you are religious. For it takes faith to believe there is no God, as it does to believe that God exists! But what is the reason for your statement? Since, according to your words, there is no God, therefore, mankind may do as it wishes? Would you object to pedophiles adopting children? If you say no, what will your argument be to support your resistance to such? You may be labeled a bigot, or at worst, pedaphobe!

hicus…: atheism IS a religion, in and of itself. At some point you had to believe there is a God in order to argue that God does not exist.

Atheism is NOT a religion, by definition. Interesting that we are all born atheist, and taught to believe in what ever god or gods are of the parents/guardians persuation. Even after being brought up in a religious belief system, one can (and many often do) use reason to conclude that no god exists…. which is not a “belief that god does not exist”. It is a reasoned conclusion using one’s intellect !!

HHH: Atheism is NOT a religion, by definition.

Jay: By who’s definition?

HHH:Interesting that we are all born atheist, and taught to believe in what ever god or gods are of the parents/guardians persuation.

Jay: The flip-side of your unsubstantiated assertion is that, all are born theists but are encouraged, or instructed, by parents/guardians to atheism.

HHH: Even after being brought up in a religious belief system, one can (and many often do) use reason to conclude that no god exists…. which is not a “belief that god does not exist”. It is a reasoned conclusion using one’s intellect !!

Jay: Many who were brought up in a atheistic system have embraced theism. As well, a majority who have, posses considerable academic credentials!

Francis Collins, a geneticist and former director of the Human Genome Project, one of the most important scientific projects of our time, converted to Christianity.

▪ Steve Beren – former member of the Socialist Workers Party (United States) who became a Christian conservative politician.[184]
▪ Anders Borg – Sweden’s Minister for Finance.[185]
▪ Bruce Cockburn – Canadian folk/rock guitarist and singer/songwriter. (former agnostic)[187]
▪ Francis Collins – physician-geneticist, noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes, and the director of the National Human Genome Research Institute (former atheist)[188]
▪ Larry Flynt – American publisher and pornographer; briefly converted under the auspice of Ruth Carter Stapleton.[189]
▪ Bo Giertz – Swedish Confessional Lutheran Bishop, theologian, and writer (former atheist).[190]
▪ Joy Gresham – American writer and wife of C. S. Lewis (former atheist)[191]
▪ Anna Haycraft – Raised in Auguste Comte’s atheistic “church of humanity”, but became a conservative Catholic in adulthood.[192]
▪ Ignace Lepp – French psychiatrist whose parents were freethinkers and who joined the Communist party at age fifteen. He broke with the party in 1937 and eventually became a Catholic priest.[193]

▪ Khang Khek Leu (also known as Comrade Duch) – Cambodian director of Phnom Penh’s infamous Tuol Sleng detention center[195]
▪ C. S. Lewis – Oxford professor and writer; well known for The Chronicles of Narnia series, and for his apologetic Mere Christianity.[196]
▪ Shelley Lubben – former pornographic actress, current author and Executive Director of the Pink Cross Foundation, anti-pornography activist.[197]
▪ Gabriel Marcel – French philosopher and playwright (former agnostic).[198]
▪ Norma McCorvey – “Jane Roe” in Roe v. Wade[199]
▪ Alister McGrath – Biochemist and Christian theologian. Founder of ‘Scientific theology’ and critic of Richard Dawkins in his book Dawkins’ God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life [200]
▪ Czesław Miłosz – Nobel prize winning poet
▪ Nina Karin Monsen – a Norwegian moral philosopher and author who grew up in a humanist family, but later convert to Christianity through philosophic thinking.[201]
▪ The Montagnards – the Vietnamese hill-tribe minorities, traditionally animist, but have been converted to Christianity in large numbers since the mid-20th century. [202]
▪ Crissy Moran – former pornographic actress and current anti-pornography activist.[203]
▪ Lacey Mosley – Vocalist and lyricist for Alternative metal band Flyleaf.[204]
▪ William J. Murray – author and son of atheist activist Madalyn Murray O’Hair[205]
▪ Bernard Nathanson Medical doctor who was a founding member of NARAL, later becoming a Pro-Life proponent.[206]
▪ Marvin Olasky – former Marxist turned Christian conservative, he edits the Christian World magazine.[207][208]
▪ Enoch Powell – Conservative Party (UK) member who converted to Anglicanism.[209]
▪ George R. Price – Geneticist who became an Evangelical Christian and wrote about the New Testament. Later he moderated his evangelistic tendencies and switched from religious writing to working with the homeless.[210][211]
▪ Anne Rice – author of Interview with the Vampire[212]
▪ Dame Cicely Saunders – Templeton Prize and Conrad N. Hilton Humanitarian Prize winning nurse known for palliative care. She converted to Christianity as a young woman.[213]
▪ Edith Stein – Phenomenologist philosopher who converted to Catholicism and became a Discalced Carmelite nun; declared a saint by John Paul II.[214]
▪ Peter Steele – Lead singer of Type O Negative.[215]
▪ Lee Strobel – Author of The Case for Christ (former atheist)[216]
▪ Allen Tate – American poet, essayist and social commentator, and Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress.[217]
▪ Evelyn Waugh – British writer (former agnostic).[218]
▪ Fay Weldon – British novelist and feminist.[219]
▪ Monty White – British Young Earth Creationist (former atheist)[220]
▪ John C. Wright – Science fiction author.[221]
▪ Nicko McBrain – Michael Henry best known as “Nicko” McBrain, drummer for Iron Maiden heavy metal band.

HHH: Even after being brought up in a religious belief system, one can (and many often do) use reason to conclude that no god exists…. which is not a “belief that god does not exist”.

Jay: Well, if you believing that God does not exist, is not a belief, than you do not believe that God doesn’t exist, otherwise, you would believe that God doesn’t exist, dumb dumb!

Doc:God does not like men killing men (or women or children for that matter) and he probably does not like American Idol either.

Doc, can you imagine what God thinks of abortion?

I can’t think of anyone who “likes” abortion!

That is a very profound statement, Doc. That’s why supporters are called pro-CHOICE.

No karolyn, that is what THEY call themselves trying to convince THEMSELVES that what they do is not WRONG!!! BUT IT DEFINATELY IS!!!!!

Here is what I would think if I were a god dealing with abortion… So, you can count it as imagination:

An accidental pregnancy is a test for the woman and the man. How they respond, taking into consideration their relationship, their station in life (do they have other kids to support on a thin margin) etc. is what I would be watching for. DO THEY HANDLE THINGS IN A WAY WHICH IS BEST FOR THE CIRCUMSTANCES THEY ARE IN? Sometimes abortion is the responsible thing to do, particularly with very young girls who were made pregnant by some old predator.

Rob

I’m merely trying to make the distinction between the religious aspect of marriage, and the legal aspects of marriage.

TML: You are correct; marriage is a religious ceremony, it has no Constitutional protection and does not need it. As for law, the right to inherit property rests with the individual leaving the legacy. Laws may protect the right of widows/widowers and the children, but anything else the person may wish to leave to another individual or organization is their preference. Furthermore, the right to access personal informtion by one, other thatn the spouse, has been available for years. All the same gender couples had to do was to sign a consent form that allowed the information to be shared. In some instances (such as Social Security and bank accounts), that form had to be signed by the recipient of those servics; otherwise, not even the spouse could obtain or correct informtion within the record. These laws existed when DOMA was put in place–so DOMA was entirely unneccessary.

How can you say marriage is a religious ceremony when so many are married by judges and others licensed by the state?

“…so many are married by judges and others licensed by the state?”

That’s one of things I think shouldn’t be happening.
Submission of records for reasons of heritage, and the like, should be voluntary. There’s no “license” that should be given. It is the responsibility of the individuals making their oaths to legally guard property, and other such things, prior to entering into the marriage. Divorcees in dispute over property and other such things, take their cases to court. Other than this, government shouldn’t be involved.

Karolyn,

Marriages performed by judges etc are civil ceremonys, not religious weddings.

Song,
I suppose that since you say that this country was founded with god and his commandments you must think that God (I’ll use the capital G) is okay with slavery.

The definition of biblical slavery and the Atlantic slave trade are two different things. I noticed this argument is tried over and over again, but it still doesn’t gel.

actually many of the churches in the south supported slavery, just as many support the hate of gays today. Churches haven’t always been right, and they certainly aren’t all right today.

Rob

Actually, it seems that Churches in the North equally supported bigotry. At least 100 people were murdered in New York during a time when the North wasn’t keen on blacks being encouraged to serve in the war as Union Soldiers. This was discussed in the Lincoln series running on Public TV last night on my PBS station. And a search gives instances where Free blacks were kidnapped in New York, thrown on ships going down South and sold as slaves. Hmm. Read the article, it’s quite telling – http://books.google.com/books?id=N-MCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=irish+kill+100+negroes+in+boston+area&source=bl&ots=s3fo4JPu48&sig=wDNjBDG1S82dORkykUKtuMCK-M0&hl=en&ei=RvcuTtuUI9SutwfYrrikCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

It’s not about Churches, it’s about people.

That’s just too funny Doc. Nowhere and at no time does god sanction slavery but that does not remove the fact that our founders were well versed in the bible and subscribed to many of the principles found in scripture and the ten commandments. That Mr. Doc is a FACT not conjecture which you and Karolyn are all too fond of.

You are right. They are not mentally retarded they are emotionally retarded. Religion is dangerous and has caused more harm than it has ever caused good. Religion will continue till the sun turns off because the emotionally retard have to have it so they can cope with life.

In order to be emotionally or mentally retarded you need to practice unnatural acts. The actual physical practice is what stimulates the emotional practice.

Crystal – “In order to be emotionally or mentally retarded you need to practice unnatural acts.”

What are you taling about? Emotionally or mentally “retarded” (disabled) people do not necessarily pracice unnatural acts.

I agree.

A Marriage contract is also necessary if one plans to collect child support or alimony.

True… I just don’t think the government should be telling anyone who can, or who can not, enter into a marriage contract, so long as they are two consenting adults.

I’m glad you used the word “two.” What’s to stop the number in a marriage from expanding if this is passed? Or maybe at least one person is an adult? You’re looking down the throat of a slippery slope.

I’m glad you used the word “two.” What’s to stop the number in a marriage from expanding if this is passed? Or maybe at least one person is an adult? You’re looking down the throat of a slippery slope.

I don’t think so, because “two consenting adults” is a reasonably defensible moral outside the sphere of religions conviction.

Why should anyone care if two or three or more women want to marry one man? (or vice versa – however, I can’t imagine that happening). As long as they are consenting adults and do not have a problem with the concept, there should be no stopping them. It’s called freedom!

Yeah anyone who knows anything makes marriage about government.Only government is worthy of overseeing marriage.Are you people for real,or just government educated?-CC.

“Why should anyone care if two or three or more women want to marry one man? (or vice versa – however, I can’t imagine that happening). As long as they are consenting adults and do not have a problem with the concept, there should be no stopping them. It’s called freedom!”

True… specifying “two” consenting adults is rather restrictive without just cause. I was thinking in terms of multiple marriage ‘contracts’, but me thinks that might actually be worse.

Freedom is about trusting individuals to make better choices than the government can’t make for us

I disagree, I believe it is more spiritual, because a marriage consists of two individuals who want to confirm their love and commit to one another, and that does not necessarily have anything to do with religion.

I think I know what you mean when you say ‘religion’, but to me spiritualism is religious if ceremonies are performed

Yes. Ceremony is one of the bases for a religion to be defined as a religion.

In some religious beliefs, Mariage is more than just a contract or a ceramony it is a sacrement. A covenant pledged between a man and woman and God ! A sacred promise to all involved and there is no divorce ! How could anyone stand before God in a holy and spiritual setting and make an oath to him when that couple is breaking the very laws of God in just being there in that setting in the first place. You can’t thumb your nose at God and think he is going to sanction your union when he has told you in the Bible that your union is an abomination to him !

@granny mae – That’s fine for you to believe that, but you should not have the right to impose that religious belief onto others. If people of the same-sex want to get married under their own religious conviction, we have no right to say otherwise.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. The union called marriage is a civil and lawful contract under all states in this country. Within this contract, certain rights and priviledges are accorded. The fact that a preacher, minister, priest, or any other “holy man/woman” performs the ceremony does not necessarily make the union any more or less acceptable to the state. The certificate that you get called “marriage cdrtificate” is certified by the state, not a religious holy person. The marriage is a marriage, which is more than a “civil union”. And everyone else espousing the bible as the “word of god” needs to understand that the bible is NOT a very good book to be used as a tool of guidance to live a moral, ethical, and fullfilling life….. it was inspired by no one other than voices in the heads of uneducated, but influential, goat herders and tribe leaders. At best they may have been very good at voo-doo , which apparently still exists today in the form of “evangelical preachers ‘, spewing “their interpretation” of the “word of god” and “what is in the holy book of scripture” It seems that there are folks on this thread that want to force their beliefs onto everyone, and are intollerant of opposing views, and opposing belief systems. I, personally will use reason as my basis of understanding the world around me, and will live by the laws developed by the men and women who are charged with such a civil task. There is no “gods law” in the statutes to be followed by our citizinery. A little tolerance on everyones part will go a long way to understanding the principles of the constitution, and the laws enacted for us all.

HHH: And everyone else espousing the bible as the “word of god” needs to understand that the bible is NOT a very good book to be used as a tool of guidance to live a moral, ethical, and fullfilling life…..

Jay: Could the same be said of every other book ever written?

HHH: it was inspired by no one other than voices in the heads of uneducated, but influential, goat herders and tribe leaders. At best they may have been very good at voo-doo , which apparently still exists today in the form of “evangelical preachers ‘, spewing “their interpretation” of the “word of god” and “what is in the holy book of scripture”

Jay: Your ignorance, HHH, is staggering! By today’s standards, the people you mentioned, were by far, better educated than the best of scholars today. I will, however, agree, that there is a considerable craziness coming from mainstream Christianity, but not for reason(s) you think. Religious organizations have been infiltrated by atheist/communist/socialist mongrels, who realize, that the only way to convert a nation to their ideology, is by the take-over, and the commandeering of the nation’s moral, and sea-worthy vessel!

HHH:It seems that there are folks on this thread that want to force their beliefs onto everyone, and are intollerant of opposing views, and opposing belief systems.

Jay: The same accusation could be levelled at you, HHH! For you insist, without providing concrete proof, that all theists are wrong, yet all atheists are right! That, is your belief system/religion.

HHH: I, personally will use reason as my basis of understanding the world around me,

Jay: What will your reference be by which you will apply reason to understand the world around you?

HHH:and will live by the laws developed by the men and women who are charged with such a civil task.

Jay: All laws? What about laws your reason rejects?

HHH: There is no “gods law” in the statutes to be followed by our citizenry.

Jay: If that is so, then explain the origin of our legal system, and why it is structured according to the laws written in the old testament, and why does it still uphold the laws written in it?

HHH: A little tolerance on everyones part will go a long way to understanding the principles of the constitution, and the laws enacted for us all.

Jay: What do you mean by tolerance? Tolerant of what? Tolerant of whom? As for understanding the principles of the constitution, the constitution is clearly intolerant of any, and all oppression, not just religious!

Btw HHH, based on your statements you post, you appear to be no smarter than a fifth grader!

Jay,
So how far down tis road do we want to go? Technically the word marriage was not in use until well into the 13th century. Note that a literal translation of the Bible will not contain the word marriage. Further, prior to the mid 16th century the act of marriage was a simple statement of union and commitment between two people. No representative of the church was required.

So, who is right here? Based on the history of the word HHH is correct that it is not exclusively religious. On the other hand, from your viewpoint of modern religion marriage may be a union that only a church can perform. And so we return to the point I have made over and over again; Those of us who accept the broader interpretation of the word will recognize the legality and spirituality of same sex marriages and those of you who believe only in “traditional” marriage will not. There is no reason that our Federal Government should be involved in deciding which is “right”.

Kinetic1, my statement to HHH was an apologetic response to his viscous and unsubstantiated attack on the usefulness, and merits of Bible. My statement did not deal with the biblical view, or the biblical definition of marriage. But since you brought it up.

Genesis 2:23–24 (ESV)
23 Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Granted, the above statement does not use the specific word, “Marriage”, however, there can be no question that it describes, rather profoundly, what marriage is! Is it possible for homosexuals to become, “one flesh” in the same sense? I don’t think so. I have no issue with homosexuals getting married. Let them. Do I approve of same-sex marriage? No! Would I ever attend a same-sex marriage ceremony? Never! So what? Btw, not all who disapprove of same-sex marriage are “Conservative Christians.” Surprised? But whether one approves or disapproves of same-sex-marriage, is not the issue, since all have the right to voice their opinion, rather, the issue seems to be coerced tolerance, as those who do voice their disapproval are labeled bigots, intolerant and blinded by their bias. As well, they are accused of interfering with the process, which, by the way, no one can stop, since all mechanisms to facilitate the eventual outcome are well in place. Btw, kudos to the homosexual activist’s who have worked tirelessly under “cloak and dagger” to ensure their success. On the other hand, those who approve are labelled tolerant, openminded, sophisticated, and all-embracing. Who here is the bigot, biased, and intolerant? Well, that would depend on which side of the fence one is standing, doesn’t it?

Actually isn the early 1800s a marriage was not recognized unless it was performed by a “preacher”!!!!

Meaningful dialogue Doc? No, what you are waiting for is acceptance of a lifestyle CHOICE that most people find perverse and unnatural then lam-bast anyone who doesn’t agree with you or karolyn for that matter, while trying to force your perceived moral dictates on everyone else. You can stop with all the “loving relationships” and “pity the homosexual” rhetoric. Maybe I spent too much time in Frisco or have worked too long among the same people you seek to support. The majority are anything but! They are vile, perverse and mostly “in your face” and will earn no respect or pity from me.

Amen Mr. Song. The one thing a homosexual is not is GAY. Their life focuses on the groin area and they try to justify it every time they get a chance to take a breath.

Here! Here!

I spent 11 years putting up with that discust and I certainly agree with you !

Does the truth hurt that bad, Doc?

CJM,
Oh I think most of us understood C130′s “humor”, it’s just that many of us have outgrown such immature drivel. I’m sure it went over great in Jr. High.

Which should ALMOST bring it down to a LIBTURDS level!!

And besides “tax treatment” what other “rights” does your guvmint confer on these people?

There are several things having to do with raising their children and being able to visit your spouse in a hospital when they are very ill, having your spouse on your health insurance policy instead of having to purchase two policies. I know there are several more.

Hospital visits should not only apply to homosexuals. There are a great number of people who have the same problem. If you’re the main caretaker of your neighbor, but not a family member, you can’t get in to see them. This is a hospital problem, not a homosexual problem.

Doc S: If you and any of your friends had signed the consent forms that allowed sharing of information, you would have had your wish..but that’s just cumbersome for you and yours because you have to ASK for it! You know, spouses do not automatically get information from certain accounts UNLESS they ASK for the consent form in order to share the information. Hospitals do not bar partners, marital or not, from visiting–they do bar them from obtaining medical data and are especially strict about it under the HIPPA Law; you do know what that is, correct. Again, it is a matter of the patient requesting and signing a consent form to share informatin. As for the tax breaks, well, same gender couples do not deserve this–sorry. As for raising their children in a loving environment, no one is stopping those who have children under their care from doing so (and in some areas, same gender couples adopt children without a problem). However, when you or one of your male friends give birth to a baby, let us know of that historical event so all can celebrate the reality that same gender couples are exactly like opposite gender couples. That’s the problem with the LGBT/PRIDE agendas–they want to be treated exactly like heterosexuals, which they are not and, therefore, are not entitled to the exact same treatment of the heterosexual world.

Doc,
It was reported just the other day, that quite a few of the insurance companies will NOT COVER even legal gay marriages!! Now what, Bubba??

Food Stamps, Public Housing, SS Benefits, and a myriad of other entitlement programs, including abortions if they made the mistake of switching sides.

The unions of these people don’t need any defense. They would would be doing a lot of defending if they were not protected by law.

Sorry, but their lifestyle isn’t protected by law. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

How’s that transsubstancian canabalism thing going for you samurai?

I think that should be illegal.

Rob

Samurai – Why do you need to call people names? Can’t you respect other people’s views? Oh, sorry, I guess you do not have that ability and can’t help it. Why do you care so much if gay people get married? They’re not bothering you.

They’re bothering our children in school, by having over-the-top liberal legislatures pass their agenda on our kids. When parents say “No” they mean “No.”

Crystal, you can’t catch the gay! Are you saying that parents aren’t rasing their children right and any influence from anything the parents don’t agree with is going to be absorbed by the kids? Better put those kids in a bubble, as there are a lot of people out there in the world who drink, cuss, smoke (both kinds) have affairs, drink and drive, etc. who are a terrible example for kids. You have a phobia against anyone who isn’t just like you.

Eyes, you lie too much. We both know that if you introduce this type of education to children in elementary school, they’ll learn. Children at that age, their brains are like sponges and easily absorb any information you tell them. That’s why there are so many children who smoke, drink, so drugs, and this is no different! Gay nonsense has no business in our schools and the government isn’t the one that can say they can get married. You’re a joke eyes! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

Hey samurai, how the heck are you?

Why don’t you just prey to that brutal god you worship and make him protect your kids from gayness? Oops, I’ll bet that didn’t work for Dick Chaney’s daughter of Newt’s sister. Oh well. Back to your name calling.

Rob

It bothers (really saddens) me when I see people totally reject what God has stated. It does bother me when a ‘girl’ comes into the restroom and uses a urinal. O.K. it really is a ‘man’ who looks like a girl but it does bother me.

Why bucko? Are you attracted to them?

Rob

I am Roman Catholic, 61 years old, married to my husband for 39 years.
I am for marriage for all of God’s children! (That’s not to say that it is such a wonderful right with a divorce rate of over 50% and the pain it brings to so many.)
I am an advocate for treating everybody with respect!
I am for equal right and treatment under the law!
And I am for being civil and kind!!!!

Rita Gruener,

Your statement just proved that you are not a Catholic ! This act is against our religion period. You know what the church teaches and if you can’t follow the church instructions on these matters maybe you should find another religion ! You can’t claim to be what you don’t believe so don’t hide behind the Catholic church as though it makes it all right for you to hold these ideas !

You might want to have this discussion with several Catholic priests.

granny mae, the commie brigade that frequents this sight will say, and claim to be anything, even Christian, if necessary, in order to lend legitimacy to their arguments. You are correct, the person claiming to be Catholic, is certainly not Catholic. However, it is also possible that she may be a Heretic!!!

All of this discussion just proves how close we are to the end times of our once great nation. Everything GOOD is now EVIL, and everything EVIL is now GOOD. The debauchary of the Roman and Greek Empires led to their ultimate demise. Even the Muslims recognize how wrong the ways of these so called “SENSITIVE, LOVING” people are. Some of the meanest, most viscious people I have known are homosexuals.

give her a break. she is only doing what the catholic church has done. they don’t use the hole bible 100%. they only take what they like so they can hold you captive and then you never learn the truth about the bible

grannymae and jukebox: How do you know the writer isn’t a Catholic? Just because her ideas do not match yours is no reason to call her a liar. And jukebox, the muslim/islamic believers stone anyone they perceive as homosexual to death, but they also take your sons to satisfy the lust of the pedophiles who dominate those countries. So, are you saying the middle eastern ‘religion’ is good? If they invade this nation and force shar’ia laws onto us, you will have to give them your sons, who will be treated as young maidens…that’s the islam/muslim way!

CJM
I would love to see them take my two sons I just petty the poor sucker that had to deal with them. Don’t think thats going to happen anytime soon.But it would be fun to watch

Doc,
I don’t have to discuss it with a priest, minister, reverand, or any other religeous leader. The only leader in my life is Jesus Christ, my savior. He is the living son of God and his father says that homosexuality is a sin! I know, we don’t follow all things in the bible, but stoning wicked women has been reversed by the son, so we don’t follow that! God gives us the ability to decern between right and wrong and just because it makes you unpopular does not make the decision wrong! I will continue to believe as I do and I will answer to him for my mistakes or sins, not you for me!

HB, the person is no Christian. By the post you’ve stated, neither are you. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

P.S. Let someone try those things with any of my sons. They’ll give them the proper response, their shoe up the person’s arse!

You just proved you are not Catholic.

Being Catholic has nothing to do with the rules the church imposes. Just because somebody might be excommunicated does not mean they are not a Catholic in their heart. I was born and raised Catholic; I have always thought of it as something I just was rather than a church I was a member of. It’s like Jews who don’t follow the Torah. They still consider themselves Jews. I guess Rita just better watch out for the Catholic Police to come and revoke her license to be a Catholic.

Sorry, Karolyn, Crystal is correct in informing both you and Rita that you are no longer Catholic. Nomenclature has specific rules…at least for the practically minded and dialectically savvy. If you no longer believe the edicts of the Holy See, you are no longer Catholic. It does not mean you cannot be Catholic again at some future point; but it is requisite that you have and practice the tenets of the Catechism to be Catholic…neither of you do. Perhaps you’d like to peruse CC2357 for verification. Do the words “intrinsically disordered’ ring a bell? If you are not who you say you are, please have the decency to coin a new term for it. This is not said to be rude or hurtful…and, of course all true Catholics pray every Mass for your return to full communion with the Church.

Thor – I know full well what you’re talking about. However, I believe that what is in a person’s heart is more important than what is in a church’s rules.

Karolyn
If they didnt follow their bible how would it not make them jews?Sould they be arabs?Turks?you get the picture then what?They are jews because they are jewish Right?What else could they be?

To Rita :
Right on!! I’m a Lutheran Protestant myself. Also, i’m not into the gay lifestyle. However, people’s constitutional rights needs to be respected, as long as it’s with two consenting adults, who aren’t coercing nor forcing their lifestyle on others. Thus again, right on!!

Today is a very sad day to read that a Lutheran Protestant has become so secular he/she can only see the constitution of the United States and not his/her God and what He says.

Evidently, your “religion” does not allow you to read the Bible, because God called this behavior an abomination in both the Old and New Testament.

Perhaps you need to rethink your position separate from the “constitution”, because in doing so your blatant approval “Also, i’m not into the gay lifestyle. However, people’s constitutional rights needs to be respected, as long as it’s with two consenting adults, who aren’t coercing nor forcing their lifestyle on others. Thus again, right on!!” of this can lead to another person spending eternity in hell, that is if you still believe there is a hell.

The bible says there is a hell, and I believe that as well too.

If you believe the Bible, what will you say to God when HE asks you why you made this statement on a public forum where you know “gays” are posting and will see your approval?

Response to Tony,

Who is making a judgement? The bibles says, paraphrasing, “you will know them by their fruits”. Exactly what are their fruits, Tony? HIV and AIDS for one. But if you have more fruits that would be satisfying to our Lord, please post them here.

I have in no way, shape or form distorted the word of God.

Please give the EXACT information about this “captain of the Roman guard, who was known as a notorious sodomite”. I would definitely appreciate the exact book and other information referenced here about the Roman guard. If they knew he was a notorious sodomite, what was his name?

Are you further telling me that the entire book of Romans in the NEW TESTAMENT is to be discounted as well?

No one to my knowlege is turning these people away from God. That is what that reference is about, but I don’t believe it had anything to do with the Roman guard being a sodomite. Unclean was used as a reference to anyone who was not a Jew. But to lie to homosexuals and tell them what they are doing is okay, is purely a mark of ignorance in God’s word. We will ALL answer for our words and actions, and I believe, even our votes. I believe that if we vote for someone we know to be evil, i.e. someone who is okay with the killing of innocent babies via abortion, we will pay for that vote. Voting for them is the exact same thing as agreeing with their platform of abortion. HOw can anyone defend this vote?

Fruits are any accomplishments. Many of the most creative people ever born were gay. Their fruits were many and lauded.

Response to Karolyn:

Karolyn says:
July 22, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Fruits are any accomplishments. Many of the most creative people ever born were gay. Their fruits were many and lauded.

No, the fruits of which I speak have nothing to do with material accomplishments or being lauded for producing those fruits, or even being creative.

The fruits the Bible speaks of are different. They are the fruits of the spirit. We are to know people by their fruits.

1.Love
2.Joy
3.Peace
4.Longsuffering
5.Kindness
6.Goodness
7.Faithfulness
8.Gentleness
9.Self-control

These are the fruits of which I am talking…

Well, Daylo, homosexuals have those fruits too, just like everybody else.

Wrong again Tony! Remember that the gays are a sexual behavior. OMG! Behavior IS NOT COVERED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION! Please get your facts stright before you post. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

Rita:

Do you ever read your Bible? Because you will find references to this type of behavior in both the Old and New Testament. God calls it an abomination. Just being a “Roman Catholic”, being heterosexual and being married for 39 years does not give anyone the authority to tell another that what they are doing is okay with them or God, especially if you are a Bible-believing Christian.

Just being kind will not get anyone into heaven. The Bible says, you (all of us) must be born again.

Response to Daylo:
Sir, yes i do believe in the Bible, in Heaven, and Hell. Since, you want to talk about the Bible. It, aslo, states “Judge not or yee shall be judged. God is the only sole judge of man.” In addition, you
are distorting the words of the lord, thus beware. It’s true in Leviticus chapter 9 verse 22, A Man laying with another man as with a
woman and vice-versa is an abomination. But in the new testament Jesus
met with the captain of the Roman guard, who was known as a notorious
sodomite. When his disciples question this, Jesus retorted” All who come to my father’s table is welcomed”. So, this shows your distortions. Thanks!!

Tony,
you better read your Bible a little closer!!! Look up Leviticus chapter 9 verse 22 and you will see what I mean!!! The research will do you good!

Then why are you defending the gays and attacking those who son’t believe in their immoral lifestyle, Tony? You can’t say you are a Christian and live in rebellion to the Bible. Maybe you ought to read Romans 1 verses 26 – 32 a little closer. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

If you were a Catholic or a Christian, you would be anti-gay agenda. If you believe in their ways, fine. But don’t say you believe in their ways and call yourself a Christian. It is inconceiveable to call yourself a Christian, but live in rebellion to the Bible. Some food for thought. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

Well, Samurai, there are gay priests in the Episcopal Church; and I personally know very well a conservative, Christian gay man.

Karolyn, you can’t be gay and a Christian. They are bound for hades. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

Rita, hands clapping, you are a Christian. God Bless you.

You are no Christian eyes, so how would you know? Lies, lies, and more lies! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

samurai, what gives you the right to define christanity for others?

Your bible babble is simply YOUR interpritation, not any facts.

Rob

samurai,
You are quick to argue for an American’s right to own however many guns they want. You’re quick to argue that property owners should have the right to do as they please with their land. You’ll argue all day for the rights of smokers and free speech, so why is it so hard for you to accept the rights of homosexuals? No one is asking your church to accept gay marriage. No one is going to force you to attend a gay wedding. No one is going to spend your hard earned money on a gay honeymoon, so what is the problem?

Kinetic1 says:

“No one is asking your church to accept gay marriage.”

Wrong! That is simply not true! In Illinois, a new civil unions law goes into effect June 1. The state will stop funding Catholic Charities if they refuse to grant applications to gay couples who want to adopt children from that organization.

If DOMA is repealed, it will have HUGE implications for the Catholic Church nationwide. With regard to adoption, the Catholic Church will be FORCED to accept gay marriage. Other issues are sure to crop up as well.

GregS,
This law does not state that all churches must perform or accept Gay marriages, but that they must recognize the legality of such marriages if they want to receive government funds. If your church want’s to remain “pure” and true to their tenants they can remain totally separated from the government. It’s no different than saying that a church will lose it’s tax exempt status if they become too politically involved.

kinetic,
so the rights YOU speak of are more important than my rights of free speech, my rights of freedom of religeon, and even more importantly, the rights of the people that depend on those charities to survive???

Kinetic1, “accept[ing] Gay marriages” is EXACTLY the same as “recognize[ing] the legality” of gay marriages. There is NO difference. Furthermore, not only does this law affect the funding of these agencies, but it also paves the way for discrimination lawsuits to be filed against these agencies by gay couples, regardless of whether or not any funding is received from the state.

Additionally, the lack of funds and fear of countless lawsuits will force the Church to shut down its adoption agencies. In Illinois alone, this represents about 20 percent of all such services in the state. It will cause a huge void and displace about 3000 children. In addition, many employees will lose their jobs as these adoption and foster care facilities are phased out. This is bad for both the children involved, as well as for the communities.

So you see, Kenetic1, this is NOT just a matter of the Church “remain[ing] totally separated from the government,” as you put it, nor is it a matter of the Church “becom[ing] too politically involved.” The fact is, the government wants to cram the homosexual mentality down the throats of those who want no part of it, at the expense thousands of innocent children and the communities involved.

Greg says: ” The state will stop funding Catholic Charities…”

Why is the state funding your religious organization? I don’t want any of my tax money going there regardless of what they believe. I don’t want my tax money going to ANY religious organization.

Rob

Robert, the state is NOT funding a religious organization. It’s the SERVICES (in this case, foster care and adoption services) performed by the religious organization, which are being funded. The beneficiaries of those SERVICES are the adoptive children who come from ALL walks of life.

If YOU don’t want your tax dollars going toward these services, just because they are provided by religious organizations, then that’s YOUR problem, and it’s another issue altogether.

All I’m saying is that a HUGE void will be created, if these services are discontinued, and thousands of adoptive children will be left without care.

My question to you, Robert, is this: Since you are so critical of the services being provided, just because it’s being done by a religious organization, are you at least willing to provide any constructive solution to the problems that would be caused if these services should be discontinued??? I think NOT!

Thank Gos for that K1. What I have against them is they are unnatural and not what God has ordained (sp). What about when they have a fairy parade and you think that’s OK, but let some Christians sit off to the side and silently pray then your kind call the police and have the Christians arrested for what? We are also tired of hearing about their immoral Sodom and Gomorrah lifestyle as being a right. I challenge you to show me anywhere in the Constitution that deals with behavior. IT ISN’T THERE! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

Quit making stuff up samurai. For example: ” but let some Christians sit off to the side and silently pray then your kind call the police and have the Christians arrested for what?”

Arrest warrants are public informaiton. Show us ONE case where such has happened.

BTW, if your god is so powerful about his wishes why can’t he hear you in his house of worship? I see your preying not as a religious act but one of a preditory nature upon some “other” to support your horrific group think. Otherwise where you prey wouldn’t matter.

Rob

In your opinion!

Karolyn I have noticed that you are like a little yapping dog: yap, yap “in your opinion”, yap, yap, “and how do you know that?” yap, yap, “in your opinion” as if you ever offer anything more than “your opinion!”

Amen !

Well, that’s all anyone ever offers is his opinion! If I said too much, I just might blow your mind!

Song, don’t pay any attention to Karolyn. She is just a lazy welfare bum that surfs the web all day and is not a productive member of society.

Palin – You know crap about me! How dare you judge me! I’ve never been on welfare! Why is it that you conservatives like o just dismiss what you don’t understand or agree with. Don’t you ever stop and think at all about anything other than what everybody else like you thinks?

G.A.Y.= Got AIDS Yet?

Very funny Palin 12! Good post and true in your description Song. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! 하나님 하고 나라를 위해서! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

OK Karolyn
I know that your not married and I don’t care why.But Why not let everyone here know that you still like men or you can come out here in front of God and everyone and admit that your gay!Or is it that your By?

Dan, you make me laugh! I love men and have been married. I have no problem with men who can think beyond their noses and respect women and don’t want to control them. I have seen way too much of that!

karolyn,
go ahead, blow my mind!! Like you did backing up your statement that people are born gay!! Nothing but opinion and mindless drivel!! If you are the student you say you are, do some research and PROVE A FEW OF YOUR STATEMENTS!!

Karolyn was married? I really feel sorry for the poor soul that made that mistake. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

Have you seen the news samurai?

Check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCzbNkyXO50

BTW, the church acts as if kids are born christian. Why is that any more real than being born gay?

Rob

Karolyn, I see that your heart is hardened to the word of God, so I invite you to take the chance to go against His word, so you will ha ve plenty of company with those loving souls of Bill Maher, Kathy Griffith, Jeneane Garafalo, and Rosie O’Donnell.

I wouldn’t wish Rosie O’Donnell or Bill Maher on anyone. That’s a fate worst than Hell.

Juke – My heart is anything but hardened! I believe in the TRUTH as I perceive it. That Truth includes the fact that the Bible is nothing but a collection of stories that was manipulated by man to gain control of others. The God (universal intelligence) that I believe in loves us all equally, is not a punishing God (Why would he/it/she punish his creations for being what he made them to be?) is not a jealous God (Why should the almighty have need of jealousy? Is that not a human characteristic?) I could point you to a couple of really good books, but most Christians are too afraid to even entertain the thought that there might be more to the great mystery of life.

Juke – I have no special affinity for those mentioned people. Garofalo is an OK actress. Kathy Griffith is a jerk. I could care less about Maher or O’Donnell.

john
I guess the term marriage can mean different things but legal marriage between same sex couples is legal in ten countries.
As for your assertion that I will burn in hell, well we are all sinners. And for the record – I am heterosexual.

Doc: are you saying that everything that is legal…is right?

“Right” in whose eyes are you asking about?

Professor Alan Dershowitz said the other day on a TV interview, “What is legal, is not always morally right”. This is a liberal Jew, and I never thought I would hear those words from his mouth, but I agree with him.

Here is an example of “christian” morality from: http://wps.ablongman.com/wps/media/objects/2661/2725147/documents/doc_d066.html

“A Catechism for Slaves (1854)
“Frederick Douglass’s Paper,” June 2, 1854, from The Southern Episcopalian (Charleston, S.C., April, 1854).”

That’s while slavery was still legal.

For some reason I just can’t alighn myself with that kind of sick religious mentality and the brutal god that allows it.

Rob

Doc Sarvis,

Ten other countries huh? Well so is prostitution but that doesn’t make it right ! Marriage has always been a religious rite. From the beginning it was sanctioned by God for the procreation of life . There is no chance of that with same sex unions. If they want to be together so be it but don’t try to make it out to be right in the eyes of God because it isn’t. To the homosexual it is a fantasy just like their sordid lives! They know something is wrong with them and instead of being celebet they pretend there is nothing wrong and resort to all kinds of disgusting acts and displays and then want the normal person to accept them ! As though marriage would bring some kind of ligitiment normalcy to their lives in the eyes of all those that see them and know them. Not here !I had to put up with these people and their over bearing ways and displays and filthy talk for years when I worked . It was disgusting then and it is disgusting now ! Once they get legally married then they want to adopt children and guess what they teach them ? All the hideous perverted ways to live as they have lived all their lives ! If it is that important to them then let them move to one of your so called other countries and live happily ever after !

granny mae
This discussion is about whether legal rights not about whether or not it is right in the eyes of God.
You seem to believe that homosexuals teach their adopted (or otherwise) children to be homosexuals. Does that mean the majority of homosexuals that we have today were taught to be homosexuals by their heterosexual parents?
As for procreation, we don’t seem to have a problem doing that, we don’t need more precreators.
Throughout our history BOTH heterosexuals and homosexuals have fought and died for our country, saved lives in emergencies and in the medical field, and contributed to our society in countless ways. You ignore all of that when you want to push them out of our great country.

Doc Sarvis, name a homosexual who has died for this country? What sex act were they performing at the time they died for the country?

Crystal! You have got to be kidding! You actually believe that no gay soldiers have died for this country? Wow!

Hey Chrystol, here you go from ABC news: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/death-of-a-gay.html

Not only that, he was a hero according to the Washington Post: “The Washington Post reported at the time that Rogers’ commanding officer wrote to his family: “As God would have it, he shielded two men who probably would have been killed if Alan had not been there.”

Gay and a hero. My my… Blows your theory.

Rob

There toes granny mae with her version of morality again: ” Well so is prostitution but that doesn’t make it right !”

Not necessarily, but why are you messing in the lives of consenting adults? Isn’t America about freedom? Obviously you NEVER have to pay for sex if you don’t want to but I’ve seen so many far off extreme right wingers who use their personalities for birth control that I can understand their need.

Rob

Other countries. Not this country. If you don’t like the laws of this country, you can always leave.

Hey Crystal,

You posted: “If you don’t like the laws of this country, you can always leave.”

By by! Medical pot has been voted in BY THE PEOPLE and gay marriage is a fact in half a dozen states. I’ll bet you can afford a one way ticket to Mexico or you can go to the north.

Rob

Doc
Has anyone here heard one truth out of docs mouth?
And for the record – I am heterosexual. I rest my case!

Everything Doc speaks is true!

karolyn,
Except his moniker, persuasion, and 99.999999999999% of what comes out of his computer that he enters!!

Karolyn, how can someone that is so far out in left field be able to speak the truth? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

Wrong! Read your bible and read history!

Bible history??? You mean Bible mythology.

Are you ignorant enough to take the chance? Would you be willing to walk through a mine field, and trust your mythology that a percentage of those mines are defective?

you got a book that’s better?

Another Bible and Christian basher has entered the site. Ignore the lost soul and he’ll go away! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

john,
I respect your beliefs and would fight to protect your right to hold to those beliefs, but I can not accept the premise that your religious beliefs should determine the rights of others. As I said to samurai, no one is going to force your church to accept or perform gay marriages. You can look away as you pass other churches and your church leaders can preach about the sin of homosexuality, but in this nation religion does not get to have the last word on what is legal and what is not.

Kinetic1 says:

“As I said to samurai, no one is going to force your church to accept…gay marriages.”

Wrong! See my response to your previous comment above.

Rights and equality can’t be voted away, Greg.

Rob

Robert, we were NOT talking about “vot[ing] away” “rights and equality.” We were talking about the state forcing the Church to accept gay marriages. Go back and read the thread. As usual, you’re not following along with what is being discussed.

As far as loving relationships go heterosexuals are no different from homosexuals.

In my experience then Doc., that would mean highly dysfunctional. But the larger point still remains: Just because we are free to choose, does not mean that we are free to choose the consequences.

Doc Sarvus sounds a bit poofy. Maybe he has not yet found the door knob on the closet.

“Just because we are free to choose does not mean we are free to choose the consequences.”

What? Why not?

Gee, karolyn, I’m gonna rob you and then walk away free and get to keep what I steal, if I can choose the consequences!!!! Sound good?????

You’re right, they are as mean and hateful as most liberals are.

OMG, Jukebox! Do you read the comments here from your Christian conservative friends? The venom just drips from their words.

Yes, heterosexuals are completely different from homosexuals. Outside of two arms and two legs, we’re not the same at all.

Geez Crystal! We are all HUMAN BEINGS!! We all love, laugh, cry, eat, sleep, MAKE LOVE, etc. You sound like you think gays and lesbians are less than human.

awww Crystal, gays are different from you? Blacks are different, orientals are different, different, different, different…

Looks to me like it’s the christians who are different and the rest of us just don’t care about it.

Rob

Song,
Yes I have seen the goings on in Frisco and it is unbelievable. They dress in clown like costumes and in all manner of undress and parade the streets on floats and bring their small children along for the ride ! These children have the worst of enviornments to grow up in and live in. I a heterosexual were to do these things in front of their children in their own home and the authorities found out they would soon be loosing their children. I have listened to these sick people talk when working with them, and the things they talk about would sing your hair. The things they do and the chances they take are just unbelievable ! You are hearing all this and your thinking why? Why in the name of God would you do such things? And they do them over and over then wonder why they get Aids ! No these are some very sick people. Now there are some people that are gender disabled and they should be helped as much as possible but the gays as a whole forget it !

grannymae: Come on–heterosexual people also have parades, dress-up in costumes, talk about their sexual prowess (which would also singe your hair), are promiscuous, AND they get HIV/AIDs. As a heterosexual person, I highly dislike those who denigrate human sexuality, which, in and of itself, is a beautiful experience. It is the bastardization of the human experience that is wrong–not the everyday activities that you imply as belonging to a warped side of the world.

CJM,
do some research into where the first case of aids in the US came from!!! It came from a gay stuard that flew into the US and when the sores became evident and he lost his employment, visited the gay bathhouses at night as they couldn’t see the sores in the dark! He spread it to a great many people before he died!! As for the heteroes that get it, a good number of them, children encluded got it from blood transfusions from tainted blood! Children that were “bleeders” and the only clotting factor in their bodies comes from transfused blood!! May that flight attendant rot in hell a dozen times for what he did!!

Joe says: “May that flight attendant rot in hell a dozen times for what he did!!”

More right wing misinformation. The real story from http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm is: “While Gaetan Dugas was a real person who did eventually die of AIDS, the Patient Zero story was not much more than myth and scaremongering. HIV in the US was to a large degree initially spread by gay men, but this occurred on a huge scale over many years, probably a long time before Dugas even began to travel.”

The ones I blame are those who denied condoms to those who might have been helped and those who oppose needle exchange programs. The PROOF is that both of these methods are highly effective in reducing HIV yet were denied because of right wing posturing.

Those are the ones who should rot in thier own hell.

Rob

Very narrow view. Hey, look at Mardi Gras, which is primarily heterosexuals. You are speaking like someone who has never really had any kind of personal relationship with a gay or lesbian person.

And you would be wrong as usual Karolyn…yap, yap, yap

granny mae says: “They dress in clown like costumes ”

Sounds to me like you wouldn’t like Shriners either. You know, the guys who have a bunch of orthopedic and burn centers? Hospitals that don’t take a dime of tax money yet offer treatment free to kids with the only qualification for the kid is to be in need of treatment.

If you don’t want to watch a gay parade why do you go? Seems to me you are LOOKING for something to hate.

Rob

Mr. Smith never any useful information to contribute. Just mindless attacks. How pathetic.

I believe you could get the ACLU to file a suit for you to get that right.

JUKEBOX,
but only if the goat consented!!! HaHaHa!!!

The goar is probibly under age and unable to legally consent.

Besides, crazy slippery slope arguments are usually absolutely false. Has anyone petitioned to marry such as the right wing presumes will occur? Gay marriage has been legal for several years, yet it hasn’t happened.

Please quit lying about it.

Rob