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Afghanistan: A Lost Cause

May 25, 2011 by  

Afghanistan: A Lost Cause

“Afghanization. Vietnamization. Surge. Gradual escalation. Corrupt dictators. Internal dissension. The war follows a familiar script.” POLITICO

Despite proclamations of victory by the Administration of President Barack Obama, the death of Osama bin Laden is not like the fall of Berlin in 1945. In itself, killing bin Laden brings no peace. It does ask many unsettling questions about America’s No. 1 ally in the War on Terror, Pakistan. It also puts into question America’s ability to even win the war in Afghanistan.

When Obama took office, he got this advice from Vice President Joe Biden: “If you don’t get Pakistan right, you can’t win.”[1]

The reason was and remains simple. The enemy, the Taliban, are using Pakistan as a base to operate hit-and-run missions against American troops the way North Vietnam used Cambodia to strike GIs four decades ago. The key difference is former President Richard Nixon launched attacks into Cambodia. Obama’s Cambodia is Pakistan, a Muslim nation with 100 nuclear weapons in its inventory.

If you think the nearly decade-long war in Afghanistan has a lot of similarities with Vietnam, you are not alone. The New York Times reports the recently deceased Ambassador Richard Holbrooke had to shut up regarding how badly the war in Afghanistan was going.

“There are structural similarities between Afghanistan and Vietnam,” Holbrooke noted, in ruminations now in the hands of his widow, Kati Marton.

“He thought that this could become Obama’s Vietnam,” Marton recalled. “Some of the conversations in the Situation Room reminded him of conversations in the (Lyndon B.) Johnson White House. When he raised that, Obama didn’t want to hear it.”

The Times indicated if Holbrooke were still alive, he would be shuttling frantically between Islamabad, Pakistan, and Kabul, Afghanistan, trying to take advantage of bin Laden’s killing to lay the groundwork for a peace process.

The Ghost of LBJ

Johnson was a guns-and-butter Democrat who sat in the Oval Office during the Vietnam War. The undoing of the nation was not solely over his vision of the Great Society, but rather America’s defeat in Vietnam.

Even LBJ finally understood that Vietnam was a lost cause, but not before tens of thousands of Americans died.

Johnson drawled: “Light at the end of the tunnel? We don’t even have a tunnel; we don’t even know where the tunnel is.”

This truth applies to Obama, who still won’t admit it. Without Pakistan as a reliable partner, the United States cannot win peace in Afghanistan. And Pakistan is moving away from the U.S. faster than a bootlegger from the cops.

Last week, the Toronto Sun wrote: “The Pakistani government is embarrassed that bin Laden was found living in relative comfort, but there’s little in their reaction that indicates shame. Rather, they are miffed that the American SEAL team went in without telling them. Parliamentarians even cheered Prime Minister Yousuf Gilani when he warned of dire consequences if the U.S. ever again sent troops into Pakistan without permission.”

Gilani declared that Pakistani intelligence services were neither complicit nor incompetent and that the discovery of bin Laden living in plain sight of Pakistan’s military academy was not Pakistan’s fault. He insisted China is Pakistan’s “all-weather friend” and implied the U.S. is an unfaithful ally.

Can you imagine Winston Churchill warning America about coming on British soil to hunt Nazis during World War II? Of course not, but Pakistan is not a real ally. It is a Muslim nation in which key members of the government and its intelligence service (Inter-Services Intelligence) covertly plan American deaths in Afghanistan while cheering on a war that is exhausting both America’s financial resources and the nation’s psyche.

But there are no Churchills in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

The President of Pakistan is Asif Ali Zardari. His own people call him “Mr. 10 Percent” because of all the kickbacks he took during the premiership of his late wife, Benazir Bhutto, who was assassinated when she again ran for office in 2007. Not only is Zardari corrupt, but he is weak against the Muslim mob which grows angrier each month.

The other key ally in America’s war on terror is Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai, who is also corrupt, perhaps delusional and, most likely, a drug addict. The U.N. envoy to Afghanistan even questioned the “mental stability” of Karzai and suggested the Afghan president may be using drugs.

In an interview on MSNBC, Peter Galbraith described Karzai as “off-balance” and “emotional.” Galbraith went so far as to call for Obama to limit Karzai’s power to appoint officials within Afghanistan until he proves himself a reliable partner.

“He’s prone to tirades. He can be very emotional, act impulsively. In fact, some of the palace insiders say that he has a certain fondness for some of Afghanistan’s most profitable exports,” said Galbraith, in reference to heroin.

When asked straight out if Karzai is a drug addict, Galbraith responded: “There are reports to that effect. But whatever the cause is, he can be very emotional.”

You can see where this is going. In World War II America had Churchill and Charles de Gaulle on our side. In this war we have Zardari and Karzai, two leaders that make South Vietnam’s dictator Ngô Đình Diệm look like Thomas Jefferson.

A Steep Price of Peace

There is a lot of money being made in these Arab wars, at least for U.S. military contractors. Fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq has cost more than$1 trillion. Yet some neoconservatives just can’t get enough, as was evident earlier this year when Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) wanted to put boots on the ground in Libya. McCain declared the Libyan “rebels” are true heroes and represent American democracy. Either the Senator has seen Star Wars one too many times, or he has forgotten that Americans are still dying because Washington armed the mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

It is true that Presidents and generals never get credit for battles they never fought. In this way President George H.W. Bush never got credit for not invading Iraq in 1991 and for letting the Communist bloc determine their destiny without American interference.

Furthermore, the success in killing bin Laden shows that surgical operations, whether lead by SEAL teams or pinpoint bombing, can knock out America’s enemies and not at the cost of hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

But I don’t expect Obama to declare victory and bring the troops home anytime soon. There is still an election to win, so I expect the President to give his “Peace with Honor” speech just before Americans go to the polls.

Yours in good times and bad,

–John Myers
Editor, Myers’ Energy & Gold Report

[1] From the book, Obama’s War, Bob Woodward, Simon & Shuster, New York, NY, 2010

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • http://Google Lloyd Olson

    At the start of the Civil War,some said to Abe, you can’t win. Before
    Pearl Harbor the Brits were telling the USA , get your butt over here or we will all pay for it. Go back and read Myers last report on S.I.L.A.
    then tell me if you want him running the military.You don’t wait for the problem to be on your door step,you stop the problem before you pay dearly for not doing so. Are we always perfect, no, but no feet will be on our soil we don’t permit coming here.

    • JC

      It’s a good sentiment, but it doesn’t justify any of the wars we’re currently in, nor does it explain why our people are overseas when we have an invasion taking place on our southern border.

      Your thoughts?

      • American Patriot 777

        Look up “AGENDA 21″ Look up “NORTH AMERICAN UNION” And, while you are at it. Look up ” EASTER BUNNY SHOT OSAMA BIN LADIN IN THE BRAIN PAN AND DUMPED HIS SORRY ASS IN THE OCEAN TO COVER UP THE LIES”

      • Cawmun Cents

        Until Islam has its version of”protestant revolution”,we will be fighting these types of police actions.There are too many fanatical people and ways of seeing things which culturally fly under the radar.Unseen forces are at work here.While Master Gunny is right about many of the city-fied Muslims seeing the toys that we have and wanting them for their own,he may fail to see the underlying truth about the nature of Islam.The largest population of Islamic people is in Indonesia.Not in the Arabic states,will we find the most fanatical leaders,for these have been there for centuries.But from the Southeast Asian world where our tactics have been observed before will we meet the true Islamic fanaticist.Yes,the Philippines,and Other places in Southeast Asian have yet to be heard from.Then where will the”he who dies with the most toys,wins”frame of mind catch hold.It is already there.So you see that many do not comprehend tha vastness of this condition.Where was ouR illustrious POTUS schooled in a madrs?In Indonesia.Under the radar.Beneath the waves lurks the iceberg which the Titannic of the United States now comes dangerously close to.Do we fail to note that historically when people forget the past,they tend to relive it?The world is watching…..-CC.

  • http://stanleymuzyk@gmail.com Nutmegger

    The Russians were smart! They found out that they could not win in Aghfanistan — and pulled out!

    Our “Community Organizer President,” isn’t smart enough — to pull our troops out of Aghfanistan, when we still have our military in Iraq — and he dabbles in war activity in Libya, for good measure.

    As a result, we owe billions of dollars to countries throughout the world — and China and Japan — will no longer buy our debt. We went into Iraq — for the oil! But, after many years of war in Iraq, China gets all the oil from this country — and we owe China alone, nearly a trillion dollars, for helping us finance this wasted war effort — losing, or wounding the cream of our brave military men and women, in the process!

    Is United States — just plain stupid — or is there is an intentional effort in this country — to desroy us? “President Barack Obama is not bucking the destruction tide!”

    • eddie47d

      China is slick and it seldom registers on our radar. Do you see them in world conflicts? Hell no! They are positioning themselves all over the world without firing a shot.They are in Africa,South America and the Middle East. While we do the fighting and killing and spend trillions of dollars they waltz in and take over.They win and we lose.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        They are asserting themselves by economics and demographics.

    • Don

      Nutmegger, you are so right, but until the people of this country can see what obama is doing and remove him we will slide down this slippery slope, and soon it will be to late to turn back, just look at the elections in Wisconsin, they still don’t care about this country, all they care about is power, very, very sad !!!

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    There is nothing to gain in Afganistan other than the opportunity to kill terrorists. The country is a third world shit hole and always will be. Their gvt. is corrupt and will fall to the taliban a week after we leave, be that now or ten yrs. from now. As long as the enemy has a safe haven in Pakistan this scenario will never end. An American’s life is not worth a million Muslims. Let them go back to the Middle Ages and if they crawl out of their caves and mud huts to attack America carpet bomb them with B-52s & B-1s. That seems to be all they understand. I would like to see India wipe out Pakistan.

  • thinking about

    It is not a “win” to have killed bin Laden any more than killing Saddam was a “win”. Big difference is bin Laden ordered the attacks on USA and Saddam fooled many by professing to have WMD’s. The main interest was on “getting Saddam” and not on the target we should have went after first. Big contractors getting big bucks, you bet, and who is one of the contractors, Halliburton which is so very tied to Cheney. There should be some big investigations into following the money with the defence contractors.

  • Tim

    With the term backfilling coming to mind, aid to Pakistan has indirectly funded their nuke program.

    It is a pity that Obama handled the killing of Osama in such a poor manner. Yes they got him but that would have happened sometime down the line. The raid was as politically correct as a B52 carpet bombing Karachi with pork chops. Simpler would have had, possibly under duress, Pakistan do the dirty themselves, show their balls.

    The Pakistan Govt is in a deep hole and they need to retake control of their own country. They are loosing…….

    • eddie47d

      Tim; You made a good point of why didn’t we inform the Pakistani government of Bin Laden’s whereabouts and made them show their loyalty to us by raiding the compound. If they were a true and trusted ally they would have done it but we all know they can’t be trusted.

  • Master Gunny

    The real enemy is Islam, no point in playing word games. Since 650 A.D. Islam has been agressive, expansive, and ruthless. Our biggest contribution to turning the GWOT around has nothing to do with bullets, guns, or air strikes. Rather our most effective weapon is the cultural “pollution” that we introduce into Islamic societies every moment of every day that we occupy any piece of soil where Islam predominates (pun intended). The corruption of Sharia law, Muslim cultural values, and “sacred Islamic soil” are precisely the reasons that Islama-terrorists exist in the first place. Rather than driving American influence out of the Middle East (and I’m proud to be a card carrying member of “the Great Satan”) the opposite has happened.
    As the youth of the Middle East see American technology, our toys, and our “perversions” (commonly called freedom here in the West) they are altered. The old mores and customs seem less relevant and the hold of the mullahs, clerics, and tribal leaders is loosened. Each day causes more doubt about the old ways and more questioning about why things shouldn’t change. In addition the Islamic youth are given the bitter lesson that Allah hasn’t done much good for the Taliban or al Queda who die in huge numbers for little or no gain. It’s hard to trust a God who is powerless against laser guided bombs and the finest military machine that has ever walked on the planet. “Patience grasshopper” would be my advise to the pundits, critics, and soothsayers.

    • eddie47d

      That one women in Saudi Arabia is still in jail for driving a car.Even in “advanced” Muslim nations change comes slow.The Democracy movement may bring needed changes or the hammer could come down and make matters worse.

      • Master Gunny

        Mr. Eddie, note the recent news that even the corpulant Saudia princes are starting to worry about the spread of the democracy infection taking hold in their back yard. They have recently started dumping huge piles of cash to their subjects to avoid ervolution. In many ways Islam is it’s own worst enemy because eventually even the most devout begin to doubt and question the ways of their elders. Thanks to the crippliong corruption, soul destroying religious requirements, and exposure to western thought and customs the walls of seculsion and isolation that protected Islamic “culture” is being to crumble.
        The increased violence with which Sharia law is being enforced in so many countries is becuase the mullahs see their grip on the people slipping an force is the only way to stop the rot.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Top; you nailed it. You should be a General.

        Semper Fi

      • Cawmun Cents

        What about the largest population of Islam in Southeast Asia?

  • http://aol.com sean murrey

    This is another vietNam we are bleeding ourselves white.

  • Jack Urban

    Yes indeed Afghanistan is a lost cause and a sickening lose of American Soldiers. We can never win because of the brain washing Qu’ran Ideology that teaching children at 5 years old that infidels are the enemy of Islam and the only good Infidel is a convert to Islam or a Dead Infidel.
    All you need to do to understand the why of it, is to thoroughly read the book of Hate aka Qu’ran; then Infidels will understand the only way to have peace around the world would be to burn all the Qu’rans in existence and perform Lobotomy’s on all the brain washed Mooslums, then what a peaceful world it would be.

    • DaveH

      We could eliminate all our purported enemies, and the military statists would just invent new enemies to justify their existence.
      It’s all about control of the citizens and enrichment of the Politicians and their buddies.
      Leaders want to feather their own nests and they will do whatever it takes to convince us that we should provide them those feathers.

  • Bert Cundle

    Our First Black President, again… Hell No!!! BUT: Politics is in the Cross Hairs!

  • http://YAHOO.COM B.FRANKLIN

    IT’S LIKE FREEDOM FIGHTER SAID. LET THE GENERALS RUN THE WAR NOT THE POLITICANS.WE COULD HAVE WON IN NAM.TO MUCH ASS KISSEN IN WASHINGTON

    • eddie47d

      How about staying out of other peoples civil wars and police actions. Once we step into the muck it becomes ours and the commitment never ceases.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        You have to also know when you messed up royally to stop and get out.
        We are supposedly destroying the rats nests, but why are the contractors going behind our soldiers and rebuilding them.

      • April

        If we’re gonna be SENT to war, then let’s get the job done fast, furious, and efficient, so we can get out of there. Less people would die that way. These panty-lace waisted passifist are more worried about what is politically correct and offending the enemy that they end up aiding in keeping the war going on and on and on etc.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:

        May 25, 2011 at 9:29 am

        How about staying out of other peoples civil wars and police actions. Once we step into the muck it becomes ours and the commitment never ceases.
        __________________________________________________________________

        It’s a blue moon day…eddie, I agree with you.

  • Frank C.

    The thing is we do not want to leave Afghanistan worse off than when we came. Is it better off now? Are we developing an Afghan army that will be able to keep that country (and our country too) safe and stable from radical, unlawful elements who want undemocratic control? We do not want a country or elements in that country who plan the destruction of the U.S. Allowing Afghanistan to evolve back into a more primitive, “primordial” state than it is now would not, I do not think, serve our purpose. Afghanistan may, basically, be less fundamentally Islamic than Pakistan. A stable Afghanistan may lead to a more stable, with less radical elements, and a more secular Pakistan. I don’t know, I may just be dreaming.

    • DaveH

      If the Afghan people didn’t want the Taliban there, they wouldn’t be there. We need to quit doing the very arrogant business of attempting to impose our life-styles on other countries.
      There’s a show I’ve seen on cable recently that depicts actual actions by a group of American military in Afghanistan. You can see from the Afghan people they encounter that those people do not like us, they fear us. Our soldiers try to curry favor by giving them gifts, and they take them of course, but I doubt seriously that the gifts result in changing their minds about the US.
      Think how we will feel when the UN has troops here watching our every move.

    • ValDM

      You don’y really believe that do you? Afghanistan has been at war for so long it’s bordering on the ludicrous. The U.S. has been there for a lot longer than 10 yrs. Do any of you recall The Russians being there? And we were, TOO. We were there arming them and teaching them how to fight. Now we’re there as their adversary rather than their ally. We need to pull out, and let them become what they will, or will not. All this money & lives wasted; and FOR WHAT?

  • H. Kirk Rainer

    Not that this hasn’t been said, but “winning” may not be the objective; rather, the purpose is to maintain a presense in the region–as U.S. infrastructure for other causes…

    The U.S. public is left puzzled because the purpose is not clarified; as in the recent event pertaining to the supposed Bin Laden compound, details are never reported.

  • Bruce Porter Sr

    Ike warned us about the “military-industrial complex”. Looks like he was absolutely correct.
    What was that old saw from Viet Nam? “War is our business and business has been good lately”
    As to winning, according to Gen Giap, the head of the North Vietnamese Army we did defeat him, after TET 68 he had nothing left, but our government made us pull back and allow him to rearm, refit, and retrain.
    Our government also warned him a week prior to every B 52 strike so he could move his troops out of the target area.
    I’d be willing to bet we knew where bin Laden was all along…..just killed him when a political boost was needed.
    BTW, I’m a combat wounded Airborne Ranger.

    • Bert Cundle

      Osoma Bin Laudin: Was & Is A C.I.A. Op. For Bush Sr.!

      • http://naver samurai

        Now you really don’t believe that, do you? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • DaveH

        For those who aren’t aware of our Government’s folly in the mideast:
        http://blog.mises.org/2277/american-spooks-heavy-sleepers/

      • JC

        I don’t know Samurai…the Bush’s and bin Laden’s go way back.
        In fact Osama was known as “the other Bush boy” he spent so much time with them. In fact they are still in business together to this day.
        The Carlyle Group is a munitions distibutor.

      • Al Sieber

        Yeah JC, his CIA name was Tim Osmand, not the musical group.

      • BrotherPatriot

        Confirmed…the Bush’s & Bin Laden were tight. Conspiracy’s stop being conspiracy’s when they are FACTS.

        God Bless.

    • Master Gunny

      Sir,
      With respects, it was that same “military-Industrial Complex” that built the current military to it’s awesome capabilities. The Soviets threw in the towell because they saw more clearly than we did just how out-classed they were.
      The problem is, as you say, with politicians who are neither trained in the arts of war nor have the mental or political discipline to marry together the complex interrelationship of statesmanship and warfighting. In spite of the ineptness of nearly all of presidents our enemies can clearly see that picking a fight with us unlikely to avail them much in the long term. Compare our modern performance with that of the Spanish American war or even our early participation in the Great War and there is no comparison.
      Our war-fighting capability is a mix of American industrial ingenuity, excellent leadership and training, and awesome professionalism. The weak link is, and always has been, the politicians and naives at the State Department.

      • April

        Totally agree!!

      • texastwin827

        No one could have said it any better! Remove the politicians from the formula and you have a military who can make short work of ANY military action!

      • Cawmun Cents

        You said it best…keep politics out of the military.

      • Bud Tugly

        You are absolutely correct.

      • JC

        You point to something very important Gunny.
        Politicians are a very different thing than Statesmen.
        We need to reduce the number of Politicians to right around zero
        and increase the number of Statesmen proportionately.

      • Mike in MI

        JC – It will do absolutey nothing unless and until the beauracracies’ are offices are closed and locked, and the crooks among them put in Jail or graves (jail costs way too much, but once they learn how to collect a check from Obama most of them become dole-r-ous Obamaphiles).

  • Cashpockets

    General Mac Arthur said during the war in Korea;
    “There is no substitute for total victory”
    He was right and we haven’t had a total victory since WWII

    Getting into all these non winnable wars in foreign countries is very expensive, unnecessary, kills so many of our soldiers in vain and weakens our nation.

    Wouldn’t it be great if Ron Paul could actually become the President of this country?

    • Bert Cundle

      Victory from W.W.II??? Yea… Japan Got our Industral!

      • Bert Cundle

        China got our World Trade empire.

      • Bert Cundle

        Our Voting Balots are in ALL LANGUAGES…

      • Bert Cundle

        We are 15 T. in debt… to who & for What?

      • Bert Cundle

        We are 15 T. in debt… To who & Why?

      • DaveH

        World War II was the typical military statist scam. We lost over 400 thousand American lives in that war and for what? Did we free Europe? Sure if you can call it ‘Freeing’ them when millions of civilian lives were lost, and then afterwards many of the countries were delivered from one Despotic regime to another Despotic regime.

        We need to butt out of other countries’ business and mind our own which we have severely neglected for over a century.

      • bob wire

        dave ~ how can you be so blind to the reasons why history is what it is.

        Butt out? Turn a blind eye? There comes a time to fight, a time to die for ideas, for country, for fairness, a time to fight for those that can’t.

        These libertarian notions of the self sufficient individualist and personal freedom will never shape the world as you seem to believe they will.

        You or I are really not that damn important in the grand scheme of history.

        You are your brother keeper ` like it or not, you can opt out if you wish and I suppose that is what you are trying to do with such talk.

        You scoff at social program that your very existence in a product of.

        Without the social underpinning presently in place today ~ many of us would not be in warm house a pissing and moaning about how bad things are.

        No man is an island unto himself Dave.

        You don’t seem to have an allegiance to anyone or anything but “self” ~ straight out of some Ayn Rand novel.

        Please tell me that I am wrong.

      • DaveH

        Okay,
        You’re wrong, Bob, in so many ways.
        My eyes are wide open to the fact that most people can rationalize any amount of immorality if they think it will better feather their nest.
        I am fighting, Bob, against wrong-headed thinking.
        Fairness? Coming from a Liberal who thinks fair means taking the hard-earned money of others? If you want their money, try acquiring it the moral way — earn it from them with your labor or some other voluntary exchange.
        Whether our Libertarian ideas are accepted or not, we will continue to try to educate ignorant people like yourself who push for a system that has failed throughout the world. Experience proves the agenda you advocate is bankrupt, yet you still embrace it.
        And please, save your BS about my being a product of social programs for your ignorant Liberal friends who buy such nonsense.
        And listen to you, a selfish Liberal who wants to take forcibly what others have worked for, calling me selfish. Unbelievable.
        Liberals have big mouths, but when it comes to putting their money where their mouth is, they silently slink away.

      • Mike in MI

        Bob wire, You’ve got it all wrong about Ayn Rand.
        She was an immigrant from the Soviet Empire, a place led by people you could easily agree with.
        She understood principle. Some people have called her an advocate of “Enlightened Self-interest”. She put into novel form a more modern application of things stated in The Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights, Bible, Federalist Papers and a few things your statements indicate you like to live under…but, want no part of.
        Those documents that cause in you revulsion are filled with principles.
        I don’t care what you mentaly ascribe to and tout yourself to be your posts have shown YOUR “principles” are just sayings and doctrines of false prophets…and worse.

      • bob wire

        “My eyes are wide open to the fact that most people can rationalize any amount of immorality if they think it will better feather their nest.”( Well, you will be judged as you judge Dave ~ and what goes around, comes around.)

        “I am fighting, Bob, against wrong-headed thinking.”

        ( you wouldn’t enjoy it as much as you think you might. As you take what you now have for granted, knowing no different.)

        “Fairness? Coming from a Liberal who thinks fair means taking the hard-earned money of others? If you want their money, try acquiring it the moral way — earn it from them with your labor or some other voluntary exchange.”

        (First I’m not a Liberal, ~ and what has been taken from you Dave that hasn’t been taken from me? How is it that you seem to think you money comes to you differently then it does me? That mine is somehow easier then yours to acquire, or that you pay taxes that I don’t? That’s simple not true!)~

        (I have been self-employed since 79 ~ never filed for unemployment or government grants of any form in my life. ~ No subsidies, not No minority status , no 1/8th American Indian. It’s been a long road and I’ve tasted dirt enough to know what it takes to stay on my feet.

        I did take advantage of the GI bill and advance my education and I confess, I bought a home on the GI bill. That’s the extent of any special entitlement that I’ve taken advantage of. Do you begrudge me for that?

        At 63, I’ve yet to file for SS. of which I have contributed something to the tune of $150,000.000. Would you begrudge me if I attempted to claim some of my own money back?)

        “Whether our Libertarian ideas are accepted or not, we will continue to try to educate ignorant people like yourself who push for a system that has failed throughout the world.” ;

        (Failed? We are experiencing 30 years of GOP meddling and leadership, a small block of history) So where in history has these Libertarian ideas that you champion worked so well since we quite living in caves? I know of none! Rome? )

        “Experience proves the agenda you advocate is bankrupt, yet you still embrace it.” (Dave , I don’t embrace it ~ I contend with it and defend it from hawkish, selfish greedy people and it’s not easy)

        “And please, save your BS about my being a product of social programs for your ignorant Liberal friends who buy such nonsense.” *(So you or your family has never lived in a GI home, drawn unemployment, worked at a government or government subsidized job,accepted food stamps, housing subsidies, school grant, head start, affirmative action program, government assisted medical care, I know you didn’t just one day fall from the sky Dave. )

        And listen to you, a selfish Liberal who wants to take forcibly what others have worked for, calling me selfish. Unbelievable.
        (again, I say, what has been taken from you that wasn’t taken for me? I just not carrying on like a wounded animal about it)

        Liberals have big mouths, but when it comes to putting their money where their mouth is, they silently slink away.

        (That is completely unworthy a comment, it is not I that “howls” and I assure you, I’m not a Liberal, I just don’t agree with you. I accept the fact I owe a debit payed by those that came before and you see “no commitment or debit” to society like a child that would reject the debit to ones mother )

      • bob wire

        and MIke, I’ve read all of Ayn Rand’s novels and was enamored and fascinated by her writing skills, her views of “self” and the world around her. Her unique ability to validate and justify motives and actions.

        No, ~ after years of deliberation, I’m not wrong about Any Rands work. She was in a league of her own, this is true. Ayn Rand high appeal is due too her writing skills and the ability to transfer the feeling of being caught up in being a victim, something everyone has felt at one point it time.

        Chances are both you and Dave and many others here feel as if they are “Victims” and this is where they dwell. They adapt and maintain the posture of a “Victim” If you will read Dave posting, can you not he him cry out as a victim?

        That I am a victim of the same pain seems to matter little. That I don’t agree with Dave makes me the one that’s caused his pain. Again just another transfer of guilt.

        Ayn Rand refused to grow up and accept her lot in life, she was always a victim of someone foul deeds in a ever changing shifting sea of torment. She was indeed a victim of birth and her times and she did a wonderful job of offering us a view of what her early childhood was like and the thought proceed that when though her mind to rationalize.

        Now if you can find something that you can use in Rands writing , ~ that’s find and good, she offers you a train load of “feeling”. But being a perpetual victim of life shouldn’t be one of them.

      • JC

        Bob, it was “government” that started the first and second world wars.
        I’d explain it to you, but you seem intelligent enough to do your own homework.
        History is what it is…because it was manipulated by self interested politicians who don’t give a damn about us.
        And your social underpinnings theory is thin at best.
        Were better off governing ourselves under a system of justice and morality.
        Government has very few legitimate functions.

      • bob wire

        Well JC, you are not going to get away from “dominion” of government, no way, no how.

        I seen no need to defend this notion.

        There were war before government ~ The Animal Kingdom that mankind belongs to, is all about conquest, breeding and war.

        So, I’m not sure what point you are attempting to make.

        It’s eat or be eaten , it’s almost impossible to withdraw from this on going process. ~ Maybe one might try ~ turn mountain man, but you would grow tired of that quickly.

      • JC

        Bob, I guess what I’m getting at is that for us to put complete trust in this or any government is entirely foolhardy. Which is why their activities must be limited to a few basic functions as prescribed in our founding documents.
        I won’t bore you with all the reasons I believe this, I’m sure you know what they are.
        As for mountain man, been there done that and never felt freer in my life. I ran a 75 horse outfitting company that did everything from family camping trips to camera safari’s and big game hunts.
        Funniest thing you’ll ever see is 4 or 5 Japanese guys whacked up on scotch playing John Wayne with real (unloaded) 45′s around a campfire at night 50 miles from the nearest pavement. Pretending to have a shootout and falling over dead…in Japanese. Funny guys…

        I had to give it up over a beef with the Feds…not funny guys.

      • bob wire

        Oh I see~ I understand how you feel JC ~ 75 pasture puppies! sounds like a sweet life for sure. It’s a shame it slipped out of your grasp and no doubt you harbor strong feeling about losing a life style.

        I watched a fish & game officer tear up a charter boat Captain licenses once and then impound his 132 ft. boat over a difference of opinion. Put him out of business in 15 seconds, never to commercial fish again.

        I believe I know sort of how you feel, ~ I found my frontier on the southern tip of Texas some years back. I had Mexico and the sea to do as I pleased ~ just respect your neighbors, there were few rules and Port town people are very tolerant of people by nature, everyone is from somewhere else, often running from something.

        Then came 9-11 and everything change, the Fed showed up in force, collage boys dressed up like Ninja Turtles with quad 225 Merc’s on a long Cigarette with huge letters on the side, HOME LAND SECURITY.

        Inside of 3 day ~! they were issuing citations speeding in the bay. What does that have to do with home land security? No one was aware of any speed limits in the bay, it’s a huge bay, no one around for miles. That we could go as fast as they could seemed to piss them off.

        Then came the Gulf Cartel and screwed up Mexico. Mexico was always a trick bag but I could managed the danger but I couldn’t manage that!

        So I’m back home, inland breathing bad air, so bad I can see it and dealing with traffic and people in a big insane hurry. ~ but it’s not so bad ~ I don’t like it that much but accepted it. ~ I make more money here but I’d preferred clean air and peace and liberty I once enjoyed much like yourself.

        But JC ~ you’ve got to let go of yesterday and live today. Make the best of what’s before you. No matter bad you think things are, they can get much worse.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Well said Bob.

      • JC

        Well there you go Bob, we haver more in common than I might have imagined.
        The end result though seems a little different.
        I too prefer to live in the moment and not carry the weight of the past. But its getting worse every time we turn around and increasingly difficult to ignore or rationalize away.
        It’s got to stop.

      • Master Gunny

        We left the engineering of a peace treaty to Georges Clemenceau and David Lloyd George after the Great War. The result was WW II.
        Winston Churchill and FDR made different but equally disasterous mistakes as they carved up Europe in cahoots with Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili AKA Joe Stalin. Dispite Stalin’s pre-war invasion of Finland, his seizure of the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), Buhkovinia, and Bessarabia our politcians made agreements with that maniac.
        Truman, spinless politician that he was, also was cowed like a schoolboy by Stalin thus setting the standard for future presidents. Ike did slightly better than most but still failed to deal with a threat so obvious that forgiveness is hard to find.
        The founding fathers made one tragic mistake when writing the constitution: they made no provision to insure that the man who would become the Commander in Chief would have the qualifications to do the job. Expecting any politician, always masters of compromise, intrigue, and duplicity to master a profession that requires honor, integrity and courage is just plain silly.

      • JC

        Further to that, one of my heros, George Patton saw it for what it was at the time. He wanted to re-arm the Germans and go after the Red army right then and there. They shipped him and into obscurity for that.

      • DC/Tex

        Wake up! Hitler was already planning on attacking as Japan was. If we had not went to war when we did we would have had to fight in home town America.

      • JC

        Going to Europe to help was righteous DC Tex.
        But I don’t overlook the long term effects of the Treaty of Versailles that pretty much gauranteed a “second” world war.
        More Political jockeying gone wrong…

      • bob wire

        “Yea… Japan Got our Industrial!” well? ~ I*’ll admit they took delivery of the final product.

        How’s that?

        American experienced an overwhelming windfall post WWll.

        We have been generous because we could afford to be. Supply and demand was in place to create great wealth.

    • http://teamlaw.org/ Jazzabelle

      He has my vote! And unlike the bizarre insinuation in this article that Pakistan isn’t a “real ally” because they objected to our INVASION (“Can you imagine Winston Churchill warning America about coming on British soil to hunt Nazis during World War II? Of course not, but Pakistan is not a real ally.”), Ron Paul makes the sensible comparison: Would we have sent helicopters to bomb bin Laden’s pad if he were hiding out in the middle of London? WITHOUT TELLING THE BRITS WE WERE COMING??

      • texastwin827

        Major difference in Britain and Pakistan. Great Britain has proved, time after time, to be a faithful ally. Pakistan has NOT.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        we wouldn’t have had to. the Brits would have taken care of him themselves. Do you know the difference between good and bad or is everything relative in your progressive world ?

    • JUKEBOX

      These wars are a covert way of controlling the population.

  • Thor

    Tony R., I’d agree from a political standpoint, but the issue is more strategic than political. Bin Laden is a nice trophy but the real fight lay between Saddam and Osama. Back to map reading 101…we put an army in Iraq and an army in Afghanistan, not merely to get Bin Laden, but to put the squeeze on Ahmadinejad and his clergyman oligarchy. We have known since 1983 (Actually,since the return of the Ayatollah Khomeini)that strategic level terrorism has been coordinated from Tehran (Target America. Yossef Bodansky, 1993). Seems like we ought to do something about that before we leave. Meanwhile, the ‘horns of the bull await.’

    • eddie47d

      “To put the squeeze on Iran” is another way of saying let’s start another war. Pakistan is far more dangerous than Iran (just ask India).We can’t pacify them and they keep the Afghan War going by sabotaging our supply lines. Then they supply the Taliban with weapons and recruits. Pakistan takes our money and leans towards China so how is that helping us? Iran leans towards Russia and could care less what we think.Karzai has been a stooge from day one and his brother is a drug dealer.There are positive improvements in Afghanistan with roads and education but if the government doesn’t change it’s bad habits then where is the Democracy? Because of Karzai’s government we could lose everything in a blink of an eye.

      • Michael J.

        eddie47d said:
        “Pakistan takes our money and leans towards China so how is that helping us?”

        True enough, but this time it’s Obama that nudged them towards China, or was that Bush’s fault too?

      • eddie47d

        Don’t kid yourself they have been pals with China for a long time and even North Korea.

    • Mike in MI

      Thor -
      Maybe you can throw thunderbolts and the thunderbutts can print money. But, nobody can print wealth. There have been many a king that went down and took his kindom with him because he thought he could wage a war without sufficient arms or wages or supplies or support. “Little King” Napoleon comes to mind.
      Bad leadership is another reason kingdoms have gone the way of the land of Babylon. America comes to mind.

  • Janice Fortin

    Where’s the beef? America has been in Afghanistan and Iraq long enough to succeed. If I were a military man, I would see nothing but a country with the military hands tied against success. Are we in there to bash down the Taliban or to train the Pakistani military?
    COME HOME, ALL YOU HEROES. WE LOVE AND APPRECIATE THE UNMATCHWED AMERICAN MILITARY. Now it is time to put your muscle to protect the homeland. Thousands of unidentified criminals are pouring over our borders. Supposedly, we had the $ for the “the wall”. Wot a damn chuckle that was….STEPS built on the mexican side. Oh heavens don’t put electric wire at the top, we wouldn’t want to miss out on any lovely beheading drug cartel entering poor AZ! And those who entered as children, prize them above all….the very folks who planned havoc at For Dix were in the benevolent USA since childhood.
    How many 9-11 hijackers HAD A COLLEGE DEGREE IN USA? AMERICA PAID FOR THE TRAINING AND THE EDUCATION OF THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MASSACRE AT FORT HOOD. and this doesn’t touch the rest of the planners of evil in USA. Now, folks, don’t add 2 and 2, and for CRIME’S sake, don’t go jumping to conclusions, you might come up with a solution that requires CHANGE ONE HELL OF A LOT DIFFERENT THAN THIS
    “PRESIDENT” HAS IN MIND. He has made it “stylish” to be antiAmerican. human traffickers get $7,000 to $30,000 HEAD to smuggle them into USA? For food? Not always. THEY ESCAPE COMMUNISM AND MARXISM AND DEPLORABLE SHARIA LAW IN THEIR COUNTRIES! Females in middle eastern countries are treated with unbelievable cruelty. HOW DARE ANYONE MENTION TO INSTALL SUCH UNCIVILILIZED EXISTANCE IN USA.
    If they wanted that, they wouldn’t be here! America has spent more than enough $ and lives in Afghanistan and Iraq. What wasn’t achieved in all these yrs is mostly due to America’s appeasing. Time to hang it up. IT IS NOT AMERICA’S LOSS BUT THEIRS. THE HOMELAND NEEDS MILITARY ON OUR OWN BORDERS. WHEN A NEW PRESIDENT FINALLY GETS IN THERE, HE/SHE WILL SEE TO IT~! SAVE AMERICA!

    • Cawmun Cents

      Personally I have always been a”wheres the beer guy”because you drink beer after the job is done and you are home relaxing.Either let us soundly defeat our enemies using whatever means necessary Mr. President(former or current doesnt matter to me)or let our troops come home.

      • JUKEBOX

        He’d rather go to Ireland and drink beer with them, rather than real heroic Americans.

  • samuel welsh

    americans need to connect to Afgainastain on a cutural level
    and an aid level

    • Nadzieja Batki

      What do you mean?

    • bob wire

      Yea , right Samuel, you go first.

    • JC

      Yah! Konnect vis zem on a kultural level” “Und zen on to ze next place…und ze next vun…until ve haff “konnected” vis zem all! singing Zeig Heil! ;)

      “America” needs to bring its best and bravest home, stop supporting the planet and clean up its own back yard.

      • Mike in MI

        Ooch, da, JZ, Yue tellem! zie sprach recht unt guter azz kin bee.
        Vee awlreddy tride dat Konnect’n’ und aid’n. Und nauw vee got dee AIDz in dee unterparten.

    • Michael J.

      samuel welsh,
      You need to connect with spell check.
      Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

      • JUKEBOX

        To connect with them on a cultural level, Obama should send a contingency of students from our segregated schools, led by his friend Common. That would really impress those tribesmen in the Khyber Pass.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      How do you culturally connect with a caveman? The only aid they want is more ammo to kill each other and fertilizer for their poppy fields.

  • Insurgent

    We need to bring all troops home to eradicate the Muslim terriots from this country and round up all the illegals and send them home.
    We need to police our borders and secure this country for the American taxpayers. “Charity begins at home.”
    If this country is not healthy, there is no way we can help anyone else. We need to purge Washington DC of the 545 greedy ba$tard$ that are ruining this country.
    We need term limits for all three branches of the federal gubmint !!!

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Insurgent… I like your plan better than the plans that Washington has! Bring the troops home. Clean up America first. Secure the boarders!

      • Mike in MI

        Robin – Not much hope of that happening. Obama already has to wiggle-and-flop, squizzle and sqweeze the numbers in order to prevaricate the unemployment figures down to make it even look like he’s keeping their growth close to incalcuable.

      • JUKEBOX

        Obama is too stupid to realize how many Muslim terrorists are coming through our porous Southern border.

      • Mike in MI

        Jukebox -
        I think he does know. Ad not only that but he gets a daily brieig to get their numbers, names and destinations. Obama’s got various Cabinet agencies selling assault weapons and explosives to somebody who takes them to Mexico to be brought back into the U. S. A. by drug cartel goons.
        So, what’s going to happen when the muscle’ems reach saturation levels where O’BathHouseBumBlaster wants them?

    • Wayne937

      Great post, Insurent. I would definately go along with this.

    • DC/Tex

      Yes on term limits on all levels of government and Pass The Fair Tax!!!

  • http://aol.com Tony Rozycki

    Agree. Bin Laden’s death is probably our only opportunity to claim victory & get out (but keep our big guns within range in safe locations).

  • http://www.reformdc.com nax777

    Well…yea they are comming here with visa essued by the USA.

    The US reached a zero population growth in the mid 80’s our leaders increased their yearly appetite for immigration. The legal yearly immigration rate went from 100,000 to 1,000,000. From the years 2000 to 2010 our leader’s yearly appetite for legal immigration grew to 3,000,000. At present levels the US population will swell another 130 million to 442 million by 2040! This is a very conservative estimate. US immigration rate is the sole reason for overpopulation in the US today and tomorrow!

    It is irrational to think that any nation can save more than a hand full of people from overpopulated poorer nation. Especially when most refuse to change their life style and blame the Jones’s for their plight.
    It is irrational to call mom a Nazi A. hole for giving people a ride back home to keep her home from overpopulation. It is irrational to think that any single payer social program will work best. It is irrational to think that nations can tax its way out of poverty. It is irrational to believe that a power convinced that you have nowhere else to go will do your biding.

    No one is going to stand in their way the template to convince people that a rational person is a very sick or stupid SOB must be removed first. And only you can remove yours.

    People will not take in grandma, or their disabled neighbor long enough to break the social network of chains that separate us. It does not have to come to that, yet! The working class can be forced to plan for their life without a single payer plan. We must meet with our fellow citizens, listen and share ideas.

    A true Conservative and a true Liberal agree on one thing though for different reasons. Any single payer social program is a nutty idea! Now each believes that it’s not so nutty as long as their side is managing it.

    We can destroy the power by replacing them with citizens that can be immediately removed by citizens should they grow a greedy bone and never serve for a life time. We must take control ourselves. Please join with us at Goooh.com you might be able to click on my name. This will take you to my link page that links to Goooh.com, NumbersUSA.com and SBA-list.org.

    P.S. Have you heard of “you cut” @ http://majorityleader.gov/YouCut/

  • Bitter Libertarian

    http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/libertarianism-vs-statism/
    Excellent Article!

    “It is how libertarians view freedom that befuddles and confuses, and sometimes even angers, American statists. They’re simply unable to comprehend how libertarians are able to honestly believe that Americans are not free. That’s because in the minds of American statists, it’s obvious that Americans are free. Everyone knows that the United States is a free country.

    The reason for this phenomenon is, again, that, while all of us are living within a statist box, most Americans have not been able to break out of the box, mentally speaking, and question and challenge the legitimacy of the statist box itself. Undoubtedly, that is in large part because of the powerful indoctrination that takes place in people’s formative years — a period in which their minds are molded so that they believe that the welfare state is, in fact, freedom. Thus, when a statist encounters a libertarian, who wants to bring freedom to America, the statist becomes confused, befuddled, and even angry because in his mind he’s already free, thanks to the welfare state.”

    Yes, in principal the article is very relevent to these decade long wars.

    • DaveH

      It’s important to note that while we’re against the Government forcing people to contribute to a Social Security program, we are NOT in favor of stiffing those who have already had their money confiscated forcibly by Government. If we got all the Immoral and Unconstitutional Government programs stopped, they could easily pay back the money that has been stolen for years from American workers. That would include selling much of the 30% of our land that the Government owns to meet the Social Security obligations to those who had no choice in the matter.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Agreed..there would HAVE to be a Transition.

      • DC/Tex

        The Government has borrowed from SS and never paid it back, given it to dope heads to buy more drugs and is run by a bunch of rocks.
        In my small family, my dad died at 63 my brother at 49, they both worked all their life and paid SS, what happened to that money? I also disagree that SS is called an entitlement I paid SS for 43 plus years, that is my money.

      • JC

        That is your money, it always was.

  • Donald

    Myers, with whom I usully disagree, is right on the money on this.

  • DMS

    You mean the founding fathers were correct in writing a SUPREME Law – the Constitution – that made it illegal to become entangled in undeclared wars in countries that have nothing to do with war against the US?

    • DaveH

      Laws? What laws? They don’t need no dam laws!

      • Mike in MI

        DaveH -
        I do believe you are right. I think they, further, see themselves as in some sort of glorious anarchists’ role which by way of the survival-of-the-fittest law of the jungle is going to evolve a “new and better” brand of humanity. The eletists above Obama must feel pretty certain that because they are the head dogs now they will continue to be great after they rid themselves of the riff-raff.
        Actually, (if that happens) they will suddenly become “average” in a world they can not comprehend because they have never experienced the real, natural world. That world runs itself according to its own rules like we see in the Mid-west right now where a heavy winter, sudden run-off, heavy rains, floods, tornadoes and unfamiliar destruction quickly unveil for us what a bunch of weak puppies we are.

        What if,…not expecting, just what if…Yellowstone blows its crown, all the flooding loosens the New Madrid Fault or hurricanes come or the Canary Islands blow and send the East Coast a tsunami? What if the rest of the bees suddenly disappear and nothing gets pollinated and all of us are foraging for food at once?

        I’ve often wondered what it’s like to think you’re “top-dog” and your pack disappears?

    • JC

      Gee, haven’t you heard?

      The Constitution is “antiquated”
      The Constitution is a “living document”
      The Constitution must be “interpreted”.

      And the prize winner from GWB:

      “The Constitution is just a damned piece of paper”

      End the Fed, Restore the Constitution….NOW!

      • Al Sieber

        Right on JC!!

      • BrotherPatriot

        Here, Here!!!

    • JUKEBOX

      He probably was in a crack house somewhere with that nose full of cocaine, when Russia was getting their ass whipped in Afghanistan.

  • s c

    Victory? Herr Obummer’s “victory” has NOTHING to do with Afghanistan, people. His “victory” deals strictly with a twisted combination of naive, stupid and otherwise braindead people who VOTED for him. Get that point straight, or you’ll always be behind the learning curve in dealing with Herr obummer and his plastic, designer administration.
    Whateever else he is, he’s NO C-in-C, he’s NO leader, he’s without character, and he’s willing to do work for ANYONE who will get him fame and fortune. He’s a classic poser. He’s a willing puppet. He’s a theoretician who probably never had both feet in the real world (and never will). GOT IT?

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Get a life

      • http://none ralph herman

        Sarge he is brain dead and cannot recall how the cost of living went up and retirement funds went down,for 7 and 1/2 years.I salute you Sarge.

      • DaveH

        You will get your memories soon. With the trememdous increase in the money supply, people on fixed incomes are going to suffer greatly. Government is on track to confiscate our savings with their created inflation, and our Social Security with their misleading inflation statistics. They will continue to claim inflation rates much lower than actual, while the seniors on Social Security struggle to live decent lives in the face of ever-increasing prices.
        Meanwhile the ignorant Liberal legions will still be blaming Bush instead of opening their eyes to reality.
        For those with at least half-a-brain:
        http://mises.org/daily/5223/Charting-the-Course-to-7-Gas

      • s c

        DaveH, it is a sad fact of life that some people can’t admit they made a mistake in voting for a non-academic dingbat. Granted, when the “best” you can get is a toss-up between McHorse’s Ass and Herr Obummer, you’re screwed.
        However, if those people don’t have a functioning conscience, it’s THEIR problem. I will not be a party to the belief that a politician who combines socialism, communism, fascism and any other ism that’s convenient is an “asset,” all they have to do is look into a mirror and see who created the problem. Screw ‘em.

      • JUKEBOX

        When the American people are supporting the man/child for his every need and desire, he doesn’t give a damn if the cost of living increases 500% in one year.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Sgt. If you can’t see the writing on the walls you must have lost your brain in the rice paddies.

    • http://naver samurai

      I agree. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • JC

      Obama is all of that and worse.

    • DC/Tex

      I agree with all you say except obama (no capitol letter to start this name) is a great C in C (comander n crime)

    • http://certus-certus.blogspot.com Raymond Harbin

      EXCELLENT ANALYSIS SC– PEOPLE IN ANY AREA OF THE CITIZENRY, WHO STILL GIVE A RAT’S ASS ABOUT SALVAGING SOME REMNANTS OF THIS REPUBLIC, NEEDS TO START A WRECKING BALL ROLLING IN THE DIRECTION OF DC CALLED “THE IMPEACHMENT PARTY WRECKING BALL.” THE METAPHOR MAY BE FUNNY, BUT SPIRIT IS NOT– AND SALVAGING “REMNANTS OF OUR REPUBLIC” IS CORRECT WAY TO PHRASE IT BECAUSE SO MUCH OF WHAT THIS NATION WAS– NO LONGER IS. THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED NOT BY A REPULSIVE TRIBE OF BAD, INCOMPETENT, UNTRUSTWORTHY,SELF-CENTERED POLITICIANS– THESE ARE ON US AND IN OUR FACE EVERY TIME AMERICA IS PUT UPON BY A DEMOCRAT UPRISING– WHAT HAS WARRED ON AMERICA IS A GANG OF CRIMINAL MARXIAN HOODLUMS WHO, LIKE THE OLD ADAGE: “BULLS IN A CHINA SHOP, WHATEVER THEY DON’T BREAK, THEY DEFECATE ON.” EVEN IF THEY ARE THROWN OUT IN 2012, I FULLY EXPECT TO FIND COVERT THEFT, AND CRIMINAL CHANGES, LIKE THE $600,000,000.00 THE LARCENOUS FRAUDS STOLE FROM THE MEDICARE BUDGET TO COVER THEIR ENDLESS LIES ON OBAMACARE COST PROJECTIONS. IT MAY REQUIRE THE WHOLE FOUR YEAR TERM TO CLEAN UP THE MESS THESE WRETCHES LEAVE.

  • Cawmun Cents

    We give billions to Pakistan and clearly they are permitting the worst of our enemies to hide in their nation.With allies like this who needs enemies?How can an established Muslim nation be called our ally,except by people who just dont get the Muslim religion.Someone need to do some splaining Lucy.Has anyone read the history concerning Muslims?They were treated very harshly by the Mongols because they always betrayed them.Eastern Europe hated them and the legend of Dracula was born as a result.Dont get me started on the Eastern Roman Empire,and their experience with Muslims.Ok so they gave us algebraic formula and mosaic tile.Minarets and whirling dervishes…and oil…lots of oil.But other than that(and some nice things said by spanish people)….not much.Point is that they are not allies that we can trust or fund in any way.Yet the last few administrations have gleefully done just that.We are paying them to attempt to kill us.That is ridiculous.

    • FreedomFighter

      The US military can win any war, the politicians just have to let them win-wage war not a police action.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • http://none ralph herman

        What is the mission of the bayonet?To kill Ivan sir.Those days are over and our armed forces can hold their own with any situation but not with their hands tied.The troops should be able to return fire and run the enemy to ground and kill them.You resist my enemy or you are my enemy.Lt.Calley was right Kill them all and let God sort them out.With the mess we have over there train them and with draw and stop being their cash cow.In a matter of a few years they are back in the same shape corrupt and still fighting themselves.

      • eddie47d

        Lt Calley was a mass murderer who should have been locked up for life at the minimum.To use him as a shining example in how to run a war tells me you also have an unstable mind. Most people can accept collateral damage in a war but not deliberate massacures.

      • Snake

        Unless you were there you have no clue!

      • eddie47d

        That really doesn’t make much difference in right or wrong but to satisfy your curiosity I was in Nam with the 4th Infantry/52nd artillery(March 1967-May 68). Calley did his dirty deed in Mar 68 and shamed us all.

      • bob wire

        With all respect, that is the way to win wars, Make it horrible as possible. We wasn’t sent to Nam to “win” anything but to secure the peace for free and public elections. That Lt.Calley forgot and tried to win something were indeed unfortunate. This was not the first or only time, but an event that was unable to be covered up or glossed over.

        It’s next to impossible to win any war where you dress as a solider and your foe dresses as civilian and plots ambush. Who works with you at day and comes at you at night. Who kills their own with less concern then you might.

        I would no say we “lost” Nam, ~ it was never ours to loss.

        I was a members of Cambodian invasion force with the 25th. It wasn’t all that much to it really, they faded into the jungle, it was mostly small arms fire, land mines in the road and booby traps. They attempted to slow our advance while others took care of loose ends and made hasty retreat.

        We found concrete sidewalks and even a swimming pool ~ so they had been there awhile and had planed to stay. ~ concrete walk ways is rare in the jungle

        The fact that we were willing to cross into Cambodia and they not sure when, offering us the greatest benefit I suppose, leaving stock piles of munition and gear behind in rapid retreat.

        Pakistan is indeed much like Cambodia in many ways, only made much worse by it’s possessing some 700 nuclear devises and leadership not truly in control of it’s many rural regions. And most of all, this nagging question where does their sympathies truly lie and what feed it? money,faith,extortion?

        A war without unconditional surrender the final solution is not winnable unless men like Lt Calley are given their head to lay waste.

        So ~ containment is the only other option, a political solution, the carrot and stick.

        I have a hard time believing “O” don’t want to or refuses to hear from anyone that has something to offer. ~ He’s never show to be that way before.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:

        May 25, 2011 at 10:10 am

        That really doesn’t make much difference in right or wrong but to satisfy your curiosity I was in Nam with the 4th Infantry/52nd artillery(March 1967-May 68). Calley did his dirty deed in Mar 68 and shamed us all.
        _________________________________________________________________

        Wow eddie, that does come as a surprise.
        Now that it becomes obvious you sold out all sense of being an American to promote communism…I have even less respect for you.
        What the hell happened to you?

      • Mike in MI

        What happened to him?…eddie47d, that is -
        He came to one of those cross-roads in life we all come to at some point. Took the wrong turn.
        Well, I’m surprized, too. Anyway, thanks for serving, Eddie47d. The things we all experienced led to some catastrophic adjustments to personally cataclysmic events. Some just had the drivel we’d already been force fed set like cement. Whatever it was made you go that way…I don’t comprehend. So I’ll cease being so disturbed at some things you say. Youse want safety in the ant colony…..
        No, thanks.

      • Mike in MI

        Hey, texas twin – I think you and Sarah r M. Bachmann should run for POTUS…serious

      • Mike in MI

        OOps – this as supposed to be in th next thread!!!

      • independant thinker

        From everything I have heard and read Lt.Calley took the fall for illegal orders given by his superiors possibly as high as the pentagon. Not defending his actions just noting him being the fall guy once the action became public knowledge.

      • Wayne937

        No, no no, Eddie. Remember, this was not a war. It was a Democratic, police action, nightmare. Lt. Calley should have not been there in the first place. Maybe it should have been you there instead.

      • Larry Owens

        IF you were not in vietnam day after day grinding it out then PLEASE do not talk about something you have NO knowledge about. young 18-19 year old kids fighting in vietnam and afganistan are trained to KILL that is what War is about. When you start picking and choosing in vietnam it was a good time to Die. I do not condone killing innocent civilians. But try day after day watching your buddies Die then you might understand why some soldiers react harshly.

      • professor

        Hello, the reason for going to war is to “kill the enemy!” If you are not going to do that….stay home.

      • eddie47d

        JC; I stand by what I said so I reckon that makes you a wanna a be cold blooded killer. If so then I have even less respect for you.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:

        May 25, 2011 at 10:15 pm

        JC; I stand by what I said so I reckon that makes you a wanna a be cold blooded killer. If so then I have even less respect for you.
        ________________________________________________________________
        How did you pull that out of what I said you schizophrenic freak?

      • Old Henry

        ralph:

        Are you talking about Afghanistan or the u.S.?

      • Thor

        Ditto, FF…kinda makes you wonder why that ‘open borders’ mentality that applies to illegal aliens doesn’t apply equally to soldiers who merely want to bring mortal skunion upon those who deserve it.

      • DaveH

        Why stop there? Why don’t we all just kill everybody we don’t like? There wouldn’t be many people left if we did.
        It upsets me to no end how quickly people can rationalize murder these days.
        As Hitler said “How fortunate for politicians that people do not think”.
        I think there’s little hope left for our country. Too many people think war is a football game. Too many people think other peoples’ money belongs to them.

      • FreedomFighter

        1. War is not murder.

        2. Islamic Fanatics who’s sole purpose in life is to kill us by starting WWIII bathing the world in Islamic fire cannot be placated nor negoitiated with, extermination is the viable solution, possible its the only solution at this point.

        3. The leader of Iran is the closest thing to Hitler alive today.

        4. We treat war as a world police action, much closer to the football game you describe, if war were the ugly, nasty win or die proposition it should be-last resort, then fewer conflicts would result and more political solutions found.

        If you wage war, wage war to win, destroy the enemy completely, including civialian populations. A sane population will remove the warlords in the east from power, fearing annihilation.

        Obviously police actions by armed forces dont work on fanatics.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Mike in MI

        Right Dave -
        And worse, they Deify a leader who sends people out to do the dirty work on Osama and when it’s done takes most of the credit for himself. He goes out crowing how great his policy in that respect is, but, along with everything else, it’s really a non-sequitur.

        Then to show you how ghoulish we have been made…everybody demands to see the gorey face of death like it’s some sort of trophy. How is that different from dragging the bodies of our soldiers around the city and hanging them up on a bridge?

        don’t know what people think anymore. I fear for this nations sanity.

      • texastwin827

        Dave, on the contary, people do not think war is a “football game”. Many of us have family or friends fighting this so called war, just as we did in Vietnam. I have 5 COMBAT veterans, not REMF’S, in my family, including my deceased husband who was a door gunner with the 191st AHC (aka Bounty Hunters), in Vietnam so I certainly don’t view it as one.

        My youngest daughter (28 yr old) has many high school friends (mostly Marines)who have already done 2 to 4 tours in Iraq or Afghanistan and her boyfriend is a command pilot of an Apache helicopter unit, currently in Afghanistan. Their hands are tied much the same as our Vietnam vets hands were. As my husband was fond of reminding people, “the soldiers in Vietnam NEVER lost a battle…it was the politicans who lost the war”.

        The problem with all wars, since WWII, is that our d**n politicians, most of whom are lawyers and never served one day in the military, dictate how the war is to be fought. IF our men/women are to be committed to a war, then it should be run by the military, not pansey’s in suits and it should be fought with an “unleash our military” attitude. Wars would be much shorter, with less loss of life and limb, for all involved, if they were allowed to do their job without interference.

      • DaveH

        Whether individuals in Mainstreet America commit it, or individuals in Government commit it, don’t kid yourself. Murder is murder. If you kill somebody except in self-defense, it is murder, no matter what your rank in Government.
        You can rationalize it all you want, just like the Liberals rationalize theft.

      • DC/Tex

        Freedom Fighter, I agree. We need Generals with the mentality of G.S. Patton and when the troops go into action only the top military leader is in charge we cannot depend on politicians much less our commander in crime to make any decisions on how to win a war and our so called allies are with us or against us.
        This report also talks about the corrupt governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan question is are they any more corrupt than the Antichrist and his band of Chicago mobsters in the White House.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Great idea Dave. There’s too many people in the World anyhow and most of them hate us because of envy. We either prevail or we come another has-been nation. We can start by letting India wipe out Pakistan and Israel the Palistians.

      • karolyn

        There is no way we can win a war in Afghanistan.

      • Mike in MI

        I agree, we can’t win any more than the Soviets did with our governments rules of engagement. We should gt outnow and keep as many of our kids safe and alive as possible.
        But Obama wn’ do it. He doesn’t want one additional soul on the list of unemployed. Bad [politics

      • Bud Tugly

        You might find the book THE AFGHAN CAMPAIGN, by Pressman interesting. It is a well researched account of Alexander the Great’s army in Afghanistan. It shows that nothing has changed in thousands of years except their religion, now being Muslims (which doesn’t help). The core culture is the same, its attitudes unchanged.

        Selective breeding in horses has led to thoroughbreds, quarter horses, Morgans. etc., all with their own temperments. In dogs we have Labradors, poodles and pit bulls.

        The Afghans have evolved to what they are and are likely to remain so without a vast cultural shift, which is unlikely. You can’t change a pit bull into a poodle.

      • JUKEBOX

        Vietnam and Afghanistan have one thing in common: They train their children from an early age to kill anyone that they disagree with. It is impossible to reverse this indoctrination, no matter how much money you throw at it. The only principle these tribal leaders understand is total anihilation.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        can’t or won’t ? there is a big difference. keeping them in the Stone Age is enough for me.

      • EddieW

        They do not want the war won…at any cost!!!! This is a great way to bankrupt and destroy this Republic!!! and it will be done!!! It has to be bankrupted, as the people will not willing accept the one world government, that the CFR with Obozo, our Liar in Chief, with his every cabinet member a member of CFR’s help!!!

      • azwayne

        What we call “war” since before VietNam was only smokescreen for politicians to rip off tax payers. Johnson was total for VietNam, They control rules of engagement, that’s NOT war. Time to stop the charade. It’s nothing but false economy because politicians don’t know and won’t allow a full independent economy. They have no idea what they really want to happen in middle east. they’ve screwed it up continuously before, check the military industrial complex and check all your richest in united states and friends.;If we spent ha;f of what we throw away in military we could have best of everything. Politicians won’t let the control get out of their hands. They play around with meaning of war who and where we should be,we keep building aircraft, vehicles, equipment good for nothing else but as long as they have us convinced it’s for our poor soldiers no limits. Federal government only job and duty, protect United States, ONLY.. We have no use of spending 1/4 on defense of what we are. It’s for the money making by politicians.

      • Timothy May

        Right on, FF. The U.S. is very good at winning wars…when our troops are ‘allowed’ to win. Unfortunately, we are even better at losing the peace, which is why, if you paid attention to the words of the (late) Charlie Wilson, had we done what we should have done when the doing was easy both politically and fiscally, we would not be in Afghanistan today. As for the claim that LBJ thought Vietnam was a hopless cause, he under-estimated our troops. We had that war won after the Tet Offensive in 1968 for having all but obliterated the NVA forces, about 70K+ NVA troops wiped out at a cost to us of somewhere between 5K-8K casualties; it is a historical fact that NVA General Vo Giap was sitting around a table discussing with his staff how to approach the Americans to surrender when he heard Walter Cronkite solemnly intone with lies and half-truths that (I will try to get close to the quote) “the Tet Offensive is conclusive proof that America can never win the war”. General Giap was stunned. He looked around the table and said to his staff, “We’ve won. It’s only a matter of time.”
        Truman started this in Korea, fighting not to win. That war was won when the Chinese troops, according to a plan that had been in the works for some time, rolled in and escalated the war. What did we do? We acted like we were were sorry to have to fight the Chinese, and signed a “truce” that is still in effect 54 years later.
        As for the war in Afghanistan, that is about Pakistan. The original idea was to disallow the use of Afghanistan as a “Cambodia” to the Taliban and AlQaida in their pursuit of obtaining the nuclear prize that would shift the balance of world power so far out of kilter it might never recover. We had, in fact, done that in 2001 at almost no cost, no regular troops committed on the ground to fight another long, expensive assymmetric conflict far from our shores. We had that war won!…in 2001!…and we gave the country away. Of course the enemies of Pakistan and the U.S. and the West operating inside Pakistan politically as well as militarily are going to cause trouble. Duh. If and when Pakistan decides to eliminate its enemies from within, like our nation needs to do, then the U.S. and Pakistan will have no trouble with the original ‘hammer-and-anvil’ plan, and that war will be done.
        As for commenting on corruption in high levels of the Pakistan government, this is laughable. This is the pot calling the kettle black…our American president would not last for one day at the helm in Pakistan.

      • JUKEBOX

        He wouldn’t last more than a week in any of the Arab countries.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Actually, they would welcome him home. He’s obviously one of them.

      • http://certus-certus.blogspot.com Raymond Harbin

        THE DISTINGUISHED, AWESOME,
        VENERABLE, COOL, GROOVY
        NEATO . HIGH POTENTATE AND
        HONORABLE PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN
        ASIF ALI ZARDAN
        OR CURRENT CASTLE OCCUPANT

        DEAR PRESIDENT ZARDAN

        AS YOU CAN SEE BY THE LETTERHEAD, I AM CONGRESSMAN, WILLIAM HICKOK , CHAIRMAN, HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS. UNDER OUR AUTHORITY OUR WORKING, TAX PAYING PEOPLE’S MONEY IS MADE AVAILABLE FOR CONGRESSIONALLY APPROVED GOVERNMENTAL EXPENDITURES AND WORTHY PROGRAMS AND PROJECTS. WE HAVE YOUR REQUEST FOR TEN BILLION DOLLARS IN AID TO PAKISTAN FOR THE CURRENT YEAR. ALI, (YOU DON’T MIND A LITTLE INFORMALITY, DO YOU?) YOUR LETTER ASKS THAT IT BE DELIVERED IN CASH, IN $100.00 BILLS. YOU SAY THAT YOU DO NOT WANT A CHECK, AS YOU HARBOR MINOR CONCERNS ABOUT OUR BANK BALANCE, AND YOU WOULD LOATHE TO SEND US A $5,000,000 DEBIT CHARGE, IF THE CHECK BOUNCED, AND RETURNED BY OUR BANK.

        ALI, WE HAVE A PROBLEM– AND WHEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM–YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. WE WILL NOT OPERATE AS THE FORMER ADMINISTRATION; WE WILL VIEW OUR DOLLARS AS THE DESERVED RESULT OF OUR HARD WORKING TAX PAYERS; AND VIEW EVERY FEDERAL EXPENDITURE AS A GREASY HAND, THRUST IN TO OUR CITIZENS POCKETS– AND, AS THESE POCKETS ARE OUR ONLY SOURCE OF THAT AMERICAN ELEMENT FOR WHICH YOU AND YOUR NEIGHBORS EVINCE PERPETUAL LUST — WE CANNOT, AND WILL NOT, ALLOW THE PEOPLE’S MONEY TO BECOME THE POSSESSIONS OF THOSE WHO SMILE AT OUR FACES, BUT CAST CURSES AT OUR BACKS. TO WIT:

        WE HAVE INFORMATION THAT CONVINCES US THAT YOU WERE PLAYING FOOTSY WITH BIN LADEN, RIGHT UP TO THE HOUR THAT OUR SUPERB MILITARY UNIT OFFED HIM, 18 MONTHS BACK– AND BIN LADEN, AT THAT VERY TIME WAS HIDING WITHIN A STONE’S THROW OF ONE OF YOUR MILITARY POSTS– WHERE IT IS SAID THAT YOUR COMMANDING OFFICERS INVITED BIN TO YOUR BASE FOR BEER, PORN AND POKER EVERY MONDAY NIGHT- – WHEN MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL WAS OFF SEASON. WE HERE, AT THE NEW SUBCOMMITTEE– DEPARTING FROM THE PAST– NOW LOOK DOWN (WAY DOWN) ON HANDOUTS OR EVEN LOANS TO SLEAZY , UNTRUSTWORTHY, FOREIGN ASSOCIATES. WE BELIEVE A BOUGHT FRIEND WILL FORSAKE US FOR TEN DOLLARS MORE FROM OUR ENEMY. IN THE MID -EAST WE HAVE, AT GREAT EXPENSE, LEARNED THAT THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY, IS STILL MY ENEMY.

        AS YOU WILL SEE MORE VIVIDLY AS TIME EVOLVES, WE HAVE UNDERGONE MUCH FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE. WE FEEL THAT YOUR PLAYING FOOTSY WITH THE NOW, WHACKED AND DEPARTED BIN LADEN; YOUR RECENT HUG FEST WITH THE COMMIE CHINESE; AND YOUR OPEN ARMED, DALLYING, AND REGAL HOSPITALITY WITH TERRORISTS– THESE PERVERSIONS OF FRIENDSHIP ACCRETE HEAVILY ON OUR PATIENCE, PUTTING US IN NO MOOD TO GIVE YOU ONE DAMNED COPPER PENNY, UNTIL YOU SCRAPE EVERY SMELLY PILE OF THESE BARBARIC, TERRORIST ENEMIES OF OUR NATION, FROM THE SURFACE OF YOUR COUNTRY’S SOIL. UNTIL THEN– YOU NEED MONEY? CALL AL QAEDA OR TRY THE COMMIES.

        ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT OUR OIL SUPPLY??? OH, YOU WISH! FORGITABOUTIT! WE HAVE TOLD THE GREENIES TO CLAM UP OR MOVE TO VENEZUELA, NORTH KOREA OR CUBA– WE ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THIS KNOW-NOTHING, NOISY, WILD-EYED, ELITIST, RADICAL MINORITY TO PUSH THIS REPUBLIC INTO A GRAVE, STARVED BY LACK OF ENERGY RESOURCES! RIGHT NOW, AS WE WRITE, WE ARE DEVELOPING OUR HUGE RESERVES OF OIL, GAS, AND COAL, (THE LATTER, THE WORLD’S LARGEST PROVEN RESERVES) ENOUGH AT, MINIMUM, TO LAST AMERICA FOR 350 YEARS, ONE-THIRD OF A MILLENNIUM– ADEQUATE TIME TO DEVELOP A ZILLION, CHEAPER VERSIONS OF SOLAR, SUPER-SAFE NUCLEAR AND OTHER ALTERNATIVES.

        THANK YOU FOR BEING THE SQUEEZE THAT YOU ARE– YOUR, RESULTANT FACE SLAPS HELPED US WAKE UP AND STOP KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD; ADDITIONALLY, YOUR PENCHANT FOR WANTONESS, PROMPTED US TO PROCLAIM TO ALL MID-EAST NATIONS THAT WE HAVE NO PLANS TO BUY ANY FOREIGN OIL EXCEPT CANADIAN. BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES IS THE WORLD’S LARGEST OIL CONSUMER , WHEN WE WITHDRAW FROM THE WORLD MARKET– THE WORLD’S MARKET PRICE WILL DROP PRECIPITOUSLY. THE STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE OUR ONLY BUY/SELL MID-EAST AGENT. YOU WANT OUR BUSINESS? MAKE PEACE WITH ISRAEL! SHOW NO MORE HATE– OPEN YOUR EYES AND NOW SEE: HOW YOUR STAR ENEMY CAN BECOME YOUR DEAREST AND MOST VALUED ($$) FRIEND. FOR ALL ENERGY ISSUES: PLEASE- CALL ISRAEL–AMERICA’S ONLY BUSINESS REPRESENTATIVE IN THE MID-EAST. WE WILL FORWARD THEIR 800 NUMBERS IN HAIFA, TEL AVIV AND JERUSALEM . GET USE TO IT.

        ALI, I’M VERY SAD TO THROW THIS BAD NEWS ON YOU ALL AT ONCE..
        (Tee, he, he –. It feels so good, I can hardly stand it !! )

        CONGRESSMAN WILD BILL HICKOK
        NEW MONEY MASTER U.S.TREASURY

      • Mary

        You’re so right. War is a business. US can win a war in two days max. Israel won in 6 days one to three of his neighbors enemies. That tells a lot.

    • Wayne937

      Giving billion of dollars to Pakistan, and to other Muslim nations is why the social socurity recipients did not see any increases in their pay for the last tw years. I don’t see how any one on SS could vote for Obamanuts.

      • JUKEBOX

        In the third year of Social Security “CUTS”, I encourage everyone to vote for ABBO, Any Body But Obama.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        There’s a sucker born every minute.

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