End Of The World? Only The Father Knows

May 20, 2011 by Bob Livingston

This will be the last Freedom Watch I will write. The world as we know it ends tomorrow, according to Harold Camping, who said his calculations come from his reading of the Bible and comparing numerological calculations to historical events like the founding of Israel in 1948.

Camping has been broadcasting on his Family Radio Worldwide independent ministry that the Rapture — the time when Christians both dead and alive will be taken into heaven and a period of tribulation will begin on Earth — will definitely occur Saturday.

“Beyond the shadow of a doubt, May 21 will be the date of the Rapture and the day of judgment,” he said in January.

A lot of people believe it. There are news reports of unrest and gatherings in countries around the world as Camping’s followers prepare. One of his followers, Chris McCann, told Fox News he plans to spend Saturday with his family, reading the Bible and praying. McCann works with eBible Fellowship, which met for the last time on Monday.

“We had a final lunch and everyone said goodbye,” McCann said. “We don’t actually know who’s saved and who isn’t, but we won’t gather as a fellowship again.”

Likewise, I won’t be writing another Freedom Watch, unless…

Jesus is quoted in Matthew 24:36: “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.”

I’m not certain what calculations Camping used to come up with his date, but it takes a great deal of hubris for someone to think he knows more about God’s schedule than the Son of God. I, personally, wouldn’t deign to say Christ is coming tomorrow — or that He isn’t. Or that He is coming the next day or in 1,000 years.

But I do think it’s great that McCann will spend the day with family reading the Bible and praying. That’s something we should all do every day. After all, we are guaranteed only the time we are in. A heart attack, a lightning strike, a meteor, a bus, a crazed gunman and a host of other possibilities exist that could take us out in an instant.

And that’s why we should heed Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 24:44: “Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

So this will be the last Freedom Watch I will write, or it won’t. But since we can’t be sure if the world will end tomorrow, we are going to go ahead and have Monday’s Personal Liberty Alerts™ put together this afternoon, as we normally would, so you can get it first thing Monday… if you’re still here.

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http://www.worldviewweekend.com SavedByGraceAloneInChristAlone

As for the whole alien phenomena, please realize that aliens are nothing more than demons masquerading in spatial disquise, attemtpting to fool the wise and those who lack Biblical eyes to see and ears to hear fail to have the discernment necessary to avoid this satanic trap.

The devil is the father of lies and has spun a false tale here with UFOs and demonology. God the Father, God the Son (the Lord Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit are clear and are truthful.

Satan is the master of darkness and evil, attempting to rob you of eternity in heaven by duping you into thinking that there is another way apart from John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes unto the Father but by me.”

Aliens are demons, plain and simple. They are attempting to deceive you into believing that they are something they are not and ultimately, to rob you of trusting in Christ.

independant thinker

Billy Graham once said something like this about alians from outer space “I do not know if they exist or not but if they do rest assured the same God that created us created them.”

Jana

Independant,
AMEN. I have always felt the same way.

http://www.worldviewweekend.com SavedByGraceAloneInChristAlone

Carole: You stated, “Will someone please tell me where in the Bible it says that Christians will be ‘raptured’. The Thessalonians verse that everyone points to tells you where the dead are, not that anyone is going to fly out of their cars, and all of the other ridiculous images we see of this so-called event.”

Read I Thessalonians Chapter Four, Verses 16 through 18 (copied below for your edification) to understand that the Rapture is coming and will snap up the dead in Christ first, followed by the believers in Christ, and we are to comfort one another with these words, for the King is coming:
FIRST THESSALONIANS CHAPTER FOUR
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up (from the Latin translation, “raptos” or raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Amen! Now, believe in the Lord Jesus, He died for your sins. Be blessed. Spread the word. Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and He is coming SOON — although I will slap guarantee you that it will not be on Saturday, May 21, 2011, at 6:00 p.m. Grenwich Mean Time (GMT).

Jana

SavedByGrace,
I used to believe in the rapture theory, but while trying to prove it, I actually found I can no longer believe in a fly away doctrine.
Going back to 1Thes. 4, verse 16 is not the subject.
the subject starts in verse 13, which states,

1 Thess 4:13-14
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
KJV

Of course the dead in CHRIST shall rise first, as they died first, HE is bringing them with HIM.

http://www.worldviewweekend.com SavedByGraceAloneInChristAlone

Thank you, Jana, and praise the Lord Jesus for your faith in Him, pursuant to Ephesians 2:8-10.

I think that a lot of these issues, such as doctrines, dogma, dispensations and more, are best left to church group discussions.

The main message for all believers is to continue the Great Commission and spread the good news of The Gospel, that we are all sinners but Christ died for us. Believing in this and following Him (Ephesians 2:10), is our best testimony and statement here and anywhere.

Praise God for you, Jana, take care.
Jana

SavedByGrace,
Amen.
Hopefully this will inspire all of us to sincerely study GOD’S
WORD. It is so much fun being a student of THE WORD. We are seeing so many things unfold that we read about in the Bible and some it scares and others just know we must be about our FATHER’S business and that is, for each one of us to do whatGOD has personally called us to do.
We are not to be afraid, but rather as the Bible says in
Luke 21:28
28 But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your heads; because your redemption draweth nigh.

Wow and HALLELUJAH.

I welcome JESUS returning, but there is still much work to be done.
We don’t like to see what is happening in this world, and we aren’t supposed to. So, we stand.

http://bearmountainscientific.com Vern Harris

I wrote a couple of books concerning this subject. It also covers many more related subjects. Want to get a fresh, accurate perspective on life and it’s purpose? The two books are titled “The Travelers” and The Alien Travelers Among Us”. Most might be surprised that there are travelers already among us preparing for this great day. Go to Amazon.com and do an author search by author Vernon R. Harris. Several books will show up but these two will be the ones you will want to check out.
Maranatha_Mark

Gaye, “All Christians” will not look like fools an hour after 6 p.m., or the day after that, if the rapture doesn’t happen when Camping says it will. Only one man represents “ALL” of Christanity, and His name is, ‘Yeshua Hammashiach’. Brother Camping, I believe (I can’t say, “I know…”) is wrong, but he speaks only for himself concerning his predictions, not the Church as a whole. No mortal man speaks for the Church as a whole. As a follower of Yeshua Hammashiach, I know there have been, are and will be until Yeshua’s return, folks who mistakenly think and preach what they believe is the truth, but isn’t. None of them have, do or will speak for the whole of the Church – Christanity. So don’t get all upset and stressed out over Camping or anyone else’s predictions concerning the rapture or anything else, that you can’t confirm by the Scriptures. If folks laugh at Christanity because of Camping, who really cares, for the world hates us almost as much as they hate the Jews. So who cares if they laugh at us.

Blessings and Shalom,

Maranatha! Mark

5StarTexan

That’s right Mark. You know the scripture says that on the day of Christ’s return we will look upon our enemy and laugh…we won’t be able to believe what an imp he is and the same with the mockers who refuse Jesus. Pre-trip rapture is a wrong doctrine and Jesus warned us of such things in Matthew 24. I believe this teaching which came from a girl named Margarette in 1830 will cause many believers to be lax in following the truth and many will stumble. Though a lot of churches also teach that once you are born again that it impossible to go to hell, they are wrong. If they were not wrong, then why does the Apostle Paul spend so much of his time in the letters warning Christians that they can fall from grace and end up in hell. Margarette was a member of the Catholic church and she supposedly had a dream that was about the comimg of the Lord. From that dream scholars of the Catholic church wrote up the rapture doctrine. In that doctrine they double use some scriptures to speak of the 1st and 2nd comming. I mean they use the same scriptures to prove both comings as they put it. I believe the Bible shows us 3 New Testament comings of Jesus= 1. He was born of the flesh-a baby-2. He resurrected and appeared in the Upper Room. 3. He will return once more in flaming fire and vengence and the resurrection of the redeemed will take place and the judgement of the condemned (seperation of the sheep and goats) begins…the redeemed will participate in judging and the judging will take 1000 yrs..then we will see Rev…last chapter fulfilled…the healing of the nations. Heaven is on earth===there will be a new heaven and a new earth===the supper of the lamb is actually the sight of God’s enemies being destroyed…not a table full of food where believes will sit on a cloud for 3.5 yrs in a safe place to keep the powerful god of this world from harming them…that is ridiculous! When Jesus arrives the bodies of believers will be changed to incorruptible bodies and then Satan cannot harm the saints of God!!! We will witness Satan’s destruction and we will rule with a rod of iron for a thousand years with Christ…this is the judgement!! MATTHEW 24 TELLS US THAT THOSE WHO THINK THAT THEY WILL NOT SUFFER TRIBULATION (BELIEVE THEY WILL BE RAPTURED) WILL YEILD TO THE ANTI-CHRIST BECAUSE THE ANTICHRIST IS GOING TO ARRIVE SAYING HE IS CHRIST AND HE WILL APPEAR JUST LIKE BELIEVERS WHO BELIEVE THE HERESAY OF RAPTURE EXPECTS AND THEY WILL FOLLOW HIM BECAUSE THEY ARE DECEIVED….THE ENTIRE POINT OF SCRIPTURE ALSO IS THAT FOR EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY….CHRIST CAN COME ANY MOMENT FOR WE ARE NOT GUARANTEED THE NEXT MOMENT..SO BE READY.

Maranatha_Mark

5star Texan, respectfully, I can’t figure out how you have arrived at your theology and have read the Bible. You theology has so many things that simply are wrong, I don’t have the time or room to site chapter and verse on all the points you are wrong about. However I respect your right to be wrong. You seem to ignore the fact that Yeshua, Himself said that, “That which the Father has given Me, I can NOT LOOSE.”, Read John Chapter 6 a few times, for starters. How many times do you put Christ on the cross to pay for yours sins. How do you get around scriptures like Galatians 2:17-21? You must live in constant fear of loosing your salvation, which isn’t what the New Testament teaches.

Paul taught us about the rapture, but when the Catholic Church became the main harold of the Word, buried it for the most part. Your ideas on the various comings of Yeshua, would be laughable, if it weren’t so sad to see someone twist the truth so badly.

So all I can do is pray that Father sees fit to have the Rauch Hakkodesh guide you to the truth. Unfortunately, once you get your theology so askew, it is very hard to get it straightened out. I know, because before I really started studying the Bible, I once held some the beliefs you stated above, and it was hard to turn loose of some of my earlier misunderstandings, even in the face of undeniable truth of the scriptures.

Blessings and Shalom,

Maranatha! Mark
libertytrain

5 Start Texan —- Rapture as such is Not the Roman Catholic Church but a sect created in England around 1830ish known as the Catholic Apostolic Church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Apostolic_Church
http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/encyc/encyc02/htm/iv.vi.cxcix.htm
and more: “Irving, a Presbyterian minister at the time, was subsequently expelled from the Presbyterian Church, at which time he formed the Catholic Apostolic Church.”

“The other group to adopt Margaret Macdonald’s new idea was the sect known as the Brethren or Plymouth Brethren, organized in the British Isles by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Darby was educated as a lawyer but became an Anglican priest in 1826, then left the Anglican Church to form his Brethren movement in 1830.”

dan

Can’t help thinking that the 22nd will dawn and we will awaken to
to the heaven or hell of our own choosing.
What of the bit where first the son of perdition/devil must come
peaceably…just sayin’ I’m still waiting for peace to break out all over the world before I get too excited.
Chris

He was wrong in 1994 and he will be wrong again tomorrow. You can’t base predictions on fiction and/or legends.
Abe

Pretribulation rapture has been around for longer and there is no prerequisite that the tribulation happen before the rapture. Moreover, in Revelation John is told to come up before these things happen and if you really are open to the truth and base your study on the Bible rather than the commentaries by supposed scholars, you will accept that the rapture by definition is pretrib and there is no criteria that needs to be fulfilled for it to occur.

Maybe tomorrow, maybe in a couple of years or 50 no matter when, Jesus wil come – that is the only thing that is sure.

Even so come Lord Jesus!

http://www.posttribulationrapture.com/index.htm Sam

Please read Matthew 24, verses 29, 30, and 31 and ask your self, when will Christ come back? When will every single eye on earth see him coming back? When will the dead in Christ all be raised from their graves and changed in the twinkling of an eye and brought up to a waiting Christ? When will all those living saved believers in Christ be propelled up to the waiting Son of God.? An the answer is, on the last day, and the last day is, “immediately after the tribulation”.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Gaye

Oh my Gosh, here in Brisbane, Australia they have paid for a massive bill board and on it they tell of how Jesus is coming back on the 21st.
Hells teeth guys, just as you are saying, no one knows the Hr, day etc, not even Jesus, (or perhaps he does now as he is with the Lord but when that was written he was here)..
Imagine what fools ALL Christians are going to look after tomorrow!!!, this is so sad, it is hard enough to talk to people about Christ as it is without fruit loops talking like this and making Christians and the bible look foolish..
The bible says that in the last days that there will be a great falling away, and with this sort of thing being said, it is no wonder…, we all look we are half brain dead now..
http://Endoftheworld? Mary

There is so much evil everywhere-I do not see how mankind can survive much longer. We will self destruct. We are all afraid of the unknown . Just focus on the promises of Jesus. Get up in the morning-have a talk with HIM – to keep your feet pointed in the right direction, keep that armor on, – we will be OK. MARANTHA!

Robin from Arcadia, IN

Mary… I am appalled at the evil in our world. I am saddened by the evil in our government. I too believe that we are living in the last days. We certainly cannot predict ‘the end’, but God’s word has given us enough information to know that the world cannot continue with so much corruption. Yes, it has been said many times before, but Christians know. I expect it to see it happen in my lifetime.

Maranatha_Mark

Robin, you are correct, many folks throughout history have tought it was end of days, but they didn’t pay attention to one of the main signs that would harold the beginning of End Times… the rebirth of the nation of Y’israel, which until May 14th, 1948 hadn’t happen yet. So you are correct many folks have thought they lived in ‘End Times’, the difference between then and now, is they didn’t have a Re-gathering resulting in the rebirth Y’israel as a nation.

Blessings and Shalom,

Maranatha! Mark

eddie47d

Three days ago I brought up this same subject and at least 4 people called me a liar. They said they didn’t believe me and I didn’t have any proof of Mr Camping or that this “event” was even going to happen. Now are these same people going to call Bob Livingston a liar for talking about this subject? Does he get a free pass because he is a Conservative? Does a Liberal get denounced because he says the exact same thing? I also said 3 days ago that I thought it wasn’t going to happen because these predictions have been made by many over the years. My point is that this site (the commentators) automatically attacks any thought that isn’t just like theirs and assume the other side has to be wrong. Another interesting thing that Mr Camping said is that there will be an earthquake at 6:00pm tomorrow and it will last 24 hours. This will shake the earth to it’s foundation and be the beginning of the end and life as we know it will probably cease to exist by Oct 21st 2011. I plan on being at church tomorrow working in the community garden. Life will go on.

Robin from Arcadia, IN

eddie47d… Conservatives do not get free passes.
Dan az

Eddie
Are you whining or bragging?I don’t remember that but what ever!
libertytrain

I don’t think every poster did as you said – several commented about this purported event – maybe not to your thread – and this church has been running full page ads in USA TODAY and who knows what other papers about the end of the world on Sat.
JeffH

…leave it to 47Stupid to mix his politics and “conjecture” in with this subject. No mortal man can predict the end…when my time is up, it’s up, same as everybody elses. The mystery of the end is where we will end up.

What we call the beginning is often the end. And to make an end is to make a beginning. The end is where we start from.
T. S. Eliot
http://naver samurai

Edduh, you may not believe this, but I do agree with you on some things. First, this person Camping has no way of knowing when the world will end. Only God knows down to the exact second when it will. Second, political beliefs don’t give you a pass on anything with God. Just because I’m a staunch conservative will not score me any points with God. It’s what we do on this earth that determines where we go in the here after. My wife and I are going to help out at our church’s bake sale tomorrow. All the procedes go to the Faith Mission homeless shelter. We hope to get a good turn out. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

James

Samurai, The ‘world’ doesn’t end when Christ returns. The word ‘world’ was translated from means: ‘age’ or ‘era.’ His Return is when His thousand-year rule on earth begins.

independant thinker

Can’t speak for anyone else the other day but I did NOT call you a lier I asked for sources because at that time I had not heard of this crackpot or his prediction. By the way, last time I looked you had not provided any sources of course they are not needed now.
DaveH

Eddie,
Most of your comments are either personal attacks or totally unfounded. If you expect people to take you seriously, you need to change that.

Maranatha_Mark

Actually, SS McDonald, I have been studying Eschatology for the last 7 years, and study with folks who have the PhD in Theology, and a Pre-tribulation rapture is pretty evident, and it wasn’t invented in 1830, but rather Paul taught on it, himself. The author of the article correctly pointed out… no one knows the day or the hour of the Rapture, unlike the 2nd coming which we do know the day. When the Anti-Christ signs the 7 year peace treaty with Y’israel, 2,520 days to the day after they sign that treaty, according to scripture, Yeshua Hammashiach comes back to Earth and defeats the armies of the Anti-Christ and saves the remnant of Y’israel.

As for the “Rapture Trap” and “The wonderful idea that no good Christian would be held accountable for the sins of mankind.” that Anne Elizabeth commented on demonstrates she has no understanding of the Gospels (teachings found in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament of the Bible), for the ‘Good News’ folks speak of, is the fact that Yeshua Hammashiach came to earth to die for ‘ALL of Mankind’s Sins’, not some or past, but all sins – past, present and even future sins. When a follower of Yeshua Hammashiach confess with sincerity, their belief in Yeshua Hammashiach, as being the only begotten Son of YHWH, who came to earth to teach and then die for our sins, and we repent of our past sins, according to the scriptures, we are saved; we are a new creation and the righteousness of YHWH, we are no longer under the penalty of sin/The Law. But that doesn’t give the Beliver the green light to sin as much as they please, for when a believe sins, we break fellowship with the Father. And because we truly love the Holy Trinity, and we know that sin displeases Him, we strive not to sin, but when we do sin, we repent as soon as we can to restore fellowship with our heavenly Father. This is a very brief summary of what it is to be a follower of Yeshua Hammashiach. Brother Camping, is an old man, I can understand wanting to go up in a rapture as opposed to dying, and while I wish it was true, that the rapture was coming 5/22/2011 at 6 p.m., the truth is, I doubt it will happen. I can no more say it won’t happen though at that time, than Brother Camping should predict that it will happen then. The rapture could happen before you finish reading this, or as the author of this article pointed out, several years from now… I don’t know when it will come, only that it WILL come.

Blessings and Shalom to all!

Maranatha! Mark

Rebecca

Mark,

You have given the best explanation yet. Having been through several studies of the books of Revelation, Isaiah and Daniel, my understanding of the rapture/tribulation/1000 year reign/Armageddon/Judgment Seat of Christ and Great White Throne Judgment is right down the line with your thinking.
Some of the things we have seen this week do point to prophecy rapidly being fulfilled like Obama’s stand with Egypt and Palestine against Israel. Also, we haven’t yet seen the temple rebuilt in Jerusalem. I don’t believe that is an analogy of Christ’s resurrection as some do. I believe it is the literal rebuilding of the temple. What are your thoughts on that subject?

Maranatha_Mark

Rebecca, 1st off, thanks for your kind words. The scriptures are pretty clear about Yeshua’s main purpose for coming to earth… to be the perfect sacrifice for our sins, so that all of mankind might have a way to escape the penalty of their sins, and restore that which Adam and Eve gave away all those years before Yeshua Hammashiach.

As for the Temple, there will be physical temple built, very soon, where the Dome of the Rock now stands. Why can I say that with certainty? The Abomination of Desolation is to be set up in the next and last man-made temple in Y’israel, and the Anti-Christ will then reveal his true intent, which is to require the world to worship him as ‘God’, and his intent to preform genocide upon the Jewish race… to wipe all of the Chosen people from the face of the earth, cause Father YHWH has promised that the only way His prophecies won’t come to pass is if every last Jew is wiped off the face of the earth. With this knowledge in mind, the anti-Christ will launch a world-wide hunt for all Jews, to do what Hitler only dreamed of doing.

In fact, there are folks in Y’israel called the “Temple Institute” that have reproduces all the ceremonial robes for the temple priest, found and identified Jews with the Levite tribe’s blood line, been training them in the various aspect of priestly duties including scarifices, prepared the tools for all temple duties, and even have the stones required for the foundation, waiting for the green light to start building the temple. Of course the Dome of the Rock must go, but if your are familiar with the prophecies of Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38-39, it is highly likely that during one of these conflicts, the Dome of the Rock will be destroyed by the Muslims themselves, for if the Jews did it, it would surely result in an all out ware against Y’israel.

If you have time, a very good book that I highly recommend is, “Isralestine: Blueprint of a Future Middle East” by Bill Salus. It is a very good book that studies many of the soon-to-be fulfilled prophecies like Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38-39, Isaiah 17, etc.

Blessings and Shalom,

Maranatha! Mark
Rebecca

Thank you for the book suggestion. I will read that. I now remember reading that the Dome of The Rock must go before the temple can be rebuilt. This could all happen within a matter of a week I am sure. I also now remember reading that the anti-christ will stand up in the temple and say that he is the Messiah. Only time will tell. But if he takes this old Jewish girl’s life I will be with the Lord shortly.
independant thinker

I heard once long ago that everything needed to rebuild the temple in Jerusulem is in a warehouse in NY just waiting on the proper time to be shiped to Isreal. Not claiming it is either true or false just that I heard that.

James

Maranatha, For the sequence of the ‘rapture’ event, see my above reply to Carole.

Carole

Regardless of who you are, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, the worst of the worst or the best of the best, etc., etc., etc., no one has yet been judged, not even Mother Theresa. The only entity to this point who has been judged is Satan himself.

To be absent from the flesh is to be present with the Lord for everyone! There is absolutely no one languishing in a grave anywhere -no one ever dies except as a result of the great White Throne Judgment (the second death), which has not happened YET!

Jana

Carole,
Amen and Amen, and PRAISE THE LORD!

http://naver samurai

I second the Amen! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

http://Trumped-Up ed

Padre Pio a Saint in the Catholic Church (canonized in 1962) who was responsible for 100′s of miracles and bled the wounds of Jesus in his hands, stated that Jesus appeared to him and mentioned the “The Three Days of Darkness” that will happen just before his returning to earth. Harold Camping should read the site at:

http://www.tldm.org/news/darkness-11-13-98.htm
Lisa

False Prophets, are many to come and go. But the question will be “What If?” and are you ready. Everyone questions that day and if they are ready. On suggestion I have is to pray for yourself, family, and friends that they are ready. Laslty Pray that you have gotten yourself ready. When God put her here he gave us husbands/wives, children, parents, friends, and an instruction manual to follow. From there it was about “CHOICE” so therefore the choice was to serve only One God and hopefully it was the right choice. God Bless!
http://eternalvaluesministries.com Chalpain Peter

I do not see a pre-trib rapture. It is read into the text.The culprit is false dispensational theology.It is separating Israel from the church which is one olive tree. Rom.11;Eph 3:6. Also the dead in Christ must rise first. This happens only at the 2nd advent. What will happen when the rapture does not take place. 1Tim.2:15-18. You are left behind. This is where true Christians belong!

Mike in MI

CHALpain Peter – what, dear God, is a CHAL-pain?

What in blazes are you referring to? There is no I Timothy 2:15-18.
There is II Timothy 2:15-18 whch in my humble estimation applies marveously to your scrambled scrumblings. None of what you say appears to be cogent to anything or elucidate anything coherent.
If you are referring to the word “rapture” I think it is a good word to get rid of – nothing resembles it in the manuscripts. Therefore, it causes confusion – which is not Godly. All kinds of these stupid “traditions” have been associated with the beautiful, logical coherent ideas that reside in what God had those guys write.
It ain’t hard. We need to get it through our hard heads: He wants us to know Him (Ephesians 1:17, “knowledge of [or about] him”). Why else would He have had such a big book written? If He wanted us stupid and ignorant He would have had anything transmitted? Why closely protect, maintain and convey something if you want to be obscure and totallly inscrutable?
He wants us to “believe” His Words. So, isual and tactile are not ways H makes Himself presently available – except on the printed page.

James

Mike, Concerning your ‘rapture’ comment, see my above reply to Carole.
Mike in MI

James -
Thanks, “Rapture” is a dumb word. It has no sort of corollary which applies a similar meaning and makes it seem (to me anyway) like an off into the blue yonder “Timothy Leary-cube-sucking-bum-tripper’s-mind-crap” thing.
I only know that God makes certain inalienable and irrevocable promises to people during this “Age of the Grace of God” in which we live. The Promises, some of them, are unlike those in other periods of Father’s dealings with mankind. God deals in legal covenants and agreements on the basis of set policies and regulations which obviously change from time to time according to His Plans. It does not seem to me that those (believers) who are alive during the “Tribulation”, “Wrath” and (so called) “Armageddon Period” enjoy the same rights and privileges we have until such time as the Church which is Christ’s Body is removed “out of the midst”. It seems from the manuscripts that we have power to nullify the rise of the devil spirit powers as long as “Christ in You, the hope of Glory” is available and extant on the earth.
For that reason, if for none other, the believers in the covenant established on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 (still in effect today) can not be left on earth during the “Tribulation, Wrath of God, Time of Anti-Christ ” or what have you. Romans says we, Christians covered by the promises Paul was instructed to record, are saved from the wrath to come. If you want to endure that, by all means be my guest, stand and endure.
But, if your bloodlines are not Hebrew (back to Abraham) you will be cited as an imposter and you won’t get sealed. (On the otherhand, God may pull you out just because of what He has invested in you – whether you are using it or not.)
James

Mike in Mi, Matthew 24:27-30 reads: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the son be darkened, and the moon shall give her light” [that's the aftermath of Armageddon a nuclear holocaust] “then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven…and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds [vehicles] of heaven with power and great glory” [that's Christ's Return]. At His Return, is when the ‘caught up’ occurs, thus this rescuing of survivors is after Armageddon.

Carole

Will someone please tell me where in the Bible it says that Christians will be ‘raptured’. The Thessalonians verse that everyone points to tells you where the dead are, not that anyone is going to fly out of their cars, and all of the other ridiculous images we see of this so-called event. Besides that as long as there are ‘wars and rumors of wars’ the end is not yet!

Camping totally ignores the prophecies in Daniel. Plus he says that it will begin at 6 PM (wherever in the world that 6 PM on May 21st hits first). Excuse me, when Christ’s feet hit the Mount of Olives – time, as we know it, will stop and everyone, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, the saved and the unsaved, will all be changed into spiritual bodies in the ‘twinkling of an eye’! Time is made for man, not man for time! I think I may even call him (Camping) on Sunday or Monday to find out what happened!

There is so very much more, but I will just end it here.

Jana

Carole,
I so agree with you. I used to believe in the rapture theory. Oh how I wanted that to be true. It sounds like such a good idea too, in the flesh, however, GOD has called us to stand for HIM, not run nor hide nor fly away. That’s why in Eph.6, HE tells us to put on the whole armor of GOD. HE gives us the tools to stand, not to fly.
When I ask someone who is going to be the teachers of the word when the Christians are supposed to rapatured up, I am told oh, the husbands and the wives of those who were raptured. When I hear that I cringe. We are to be about our FATHER’S business now and as well as when the Anti Christ comes on the scene.

Bitter Libertarian

I agree. I personally believe that the good & the real followers will be given a choice to stand, fight and die for their Belief in God, or Live and cower under the reigns of evil.

If you think about it as tension builds around the world, (and it is building) mix revolts with war, famine, natural disasters, degrading morals, deceptions, manipulations, and mistreatment spreads like fire…we are clearly on a road towards a climax. When..as stated..only God knows.

James

Carole, The word ‘rapture’ isn’t in the Bible. Paul wrote: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (1 Thes. 4:16-17).
This return of Christ (Mt. 24:27-30) is stated to be “Immediately after the tribulation of those days.” That ‘tribulation’ being the final war (Armageddon). The biblical sequence is the tribulation (armageddon), Christ’s Return, then the ‘caught up’ occurs. Most believers in the ‘rapture’ have the ‘caught up’ occurring before the final war – not true.

April

Carole, The word ‘rapture’ isn’t in the Bible. Paul wrote: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (1 Thes. 4:16-17).
This return of Christ (Mt. 24:27-30) is stated to be “Immediately after the tribulation of those days.” That ‘tribulation’ being the final war (Armageddon). The biblical sequence is the tribulation (armageddon), Christ’s Return, then the ‘caught up’ occurs. Most believers in the ‘rapture’ have the ‘caught up’ occurring before the final war – not true
James
I think that was Carole’s point in the first place that the word ‘rapture’ is not in the Bible. I think Jana also makes a good point about the subject.
The subject is them which are asleep(koimaomai in the Greek tongue-referring too those who have died) in verse 13 of 1Thes 4. Paul says not to be ignorant concerning this subject; this is where most folks misinterperet b/c they start at verse 16 and therefore not clear what is being referred to.
Verse 14 gives the condition, and reaoning,and position of those Jesus Christ will bring with HIM at HIS return. They believe Jesus Christ died and rose again before they died.
Verse 15 gives the reason and position of us who remain; there is no way we can prevent(phthano in the Greek tongue)ie. to go before those who are already with our LORD.
Verse 16 and 17 gives us the actual 7th trump event. Christ descends with a shout of command by the archangel, with the trumpet of God: and that sid hst already with HIM shall rise first (“anistemi” in the Greek tonge which means to stand up or
April

sorry I accidently hit the enter button prematurely.

(“anistemi” in the Greek tonge which means to stand up or

to stand up of rise up to the occation as an army is raised to do battle.) This trump has a primary preposition denoting a fixed and specific time place and position (ensalpinx) of the action (a great vibration/disturbance of what the anti-Christ has built-the beast system utilizing the 4 hidden dynasties) this trumpet executes.
Verse 17- Then we who remain shall be caughtup (karpazo in Greek tongue ie.catch up with or to join them. We are not gonna fly away)In the clouds is a figure of speech as is in Hebrews 12.1 a cloud of witnesses, to meet the Lord in to air “aero” ie. spirit(not sky).
James

April, I understood Carole’s question as to mean: Is the idea of a rapture in the Bible? and it is. It just uses the words ‘caught up.’
April

James I challenge you to check me out. The word “caughtup” is (karpazo in Greek tongue ie.catch up with or to join them). We are not gonna fly away-Christ is returning to the Mt of Olives.
In the clouds is a figure of speech as is in Hebrews 12.1 a cloud of witnesses, to meet the Lord in to air “aero” ie. spirit or breath of life(not sky).
If you don’t have the tools to go deeper and study for yourself I encourage you to do so. Start off with a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, Bullinger’s Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, a set of Green’s Interlinear, Smith’s Bible Dictionary, Holmes Bible Dictionary, Hebrew and Greek Lexicon’s for cross references so that you can get the thought paterns of the Massaretic and Septuagint and those time periods. There are more, but these are good to start with. When you study, pray to the Father that the Holy Spirit teach you how to rightly divide and show you Truth. Believe no individual without checking them out.
Best Wishes to ya.

Mike Friend

Harold Camping is a false teacher even apart from this zany prediction. He attempts to say that when Jesus stated that even the Son did not know the day or the hour of His return that the word son does not refer to Jesus.
He also teaches that Jesus died twice and that one cannot know whether or not one is saved.
Notice in his ads regarding May 21 he urges “Call urgently on God” but he does not present the gospel as to how one can be saved.
I pity his followers who are in for a profound set of choices and decisions come Sunday May 22. We must hope that they will have the sense to leave this false prophet and rebuild their lives on the true Word of God.
Also timeserver.com would make clear to anyone that the day and hour of this event couild not be stated because around this world of ours it is always two days going on and periodically three days.
So just check the Australian news tonight and you’ll know the forecast for the USA tomorrow.

Mike in MI

Good, Mike

Richard

That’s what’s sad, people loosing their faith because of false prophets and then feeling stupid / cheated and hating real believers.
The word says in the last days many having itching ears heap to themselves prophets that tell them what they want to hear. Unfortunately the deceivers are themselves deceived.
There is an important spiritual principle in Eze 14.. When people don’t have a sincere heart torward God and have stumbling blocks (or idols) in their hearts; God will answer them thru their prophet according to the multitude of stumbling blocks they have, in other words, he will let them hear what they want.
SS McDonald

Bible scholars and those who faithfully study their Bibles realize that pre-tribulation Rapture is false doctrine (invented in 1830). Those who faithfully study their Bible will and do know the signs of the end of this age of mankind….and the end is near. Bible study does not mean studying some man’s opinion written in some book that “explains” the Bible. Bible study does not include listening to some sermon and believing that as the only truth. Bible study means grinding out the truth for yourself. God recognizes those who truly seek Him in Bible Study and thus makes the study easier as one progresses. It cannot be any more simple than this.

Mike in MI

Sail on there S. S. McDonald; bonie voyagee what e’er your heading -

So, “grinding it out” in personal Bible study yourself is all a “real believer” needs, eh-h-h? I guess God didn’t think all that out too good, did He? He didn’t have Matthew, Mark, Luke and John written out before Christ started his ministry; so they could study before he came. Then they could have verified him or disputed him on the basis of their own grinding. Most of them couldn’t even read – but that’s irrelevant I suppose. Guess it was silly of God to want them to believe on the basis of Jesus’ sermons and effects he produced.
Then there were those troublesome original 12 disciples/apostles and the other apostles of Christ Jesus’ personal calling – guys like Paul, Luke, Barnabas, Silas and others. (Well, that word is associated in the Acts text with their ministries.) Hey, I didn’t have the Book written. Check it out. It’s verified in Interlinears, Lexicons, Concordances, good versions and faithful commentaries (not all, but those that don’t have an ax to “grind”).
It helps a whole lot to hear “a sermon” (a teacher) from someone who points one in the direction of such materials.
Oh yes, and what about all those people exposed to those 12 disciple/apostle guys and that other one (the one who said a whole “DISPENSATION” was committed unto him…um-m-m, Paul???)? They went out and “TAUGHT”, heralded the Word, did sermons, held meetings (of both daily planned and also spontaneous occurences [Acts 2,3 and 4]). They spoke the Word to anything that moved if they could get its attention.
Paul went to a place called Thessalonica and Berea and taught. Those folks believed big and responded. Then Paul was sent to Athens and wrote the first of his letters back to Thessalonica. That was the first letter of the “Age (Dispensation) of the Grace of God” to explain Doctrine. What was one of the main themes? Christ’s return. Did they respond to the truth because they had written scripture to study? NO-O-O, NO-O-O, NOT. His verbal attestation started it and they went to the written Old Testament passages they had available to verify his dialogue.
So, how did it start for them? Sermons, what Paul and the others taught and proved: 1.) From Paul’s new (and verifiable) information; and 2.) from the signs and workings of spiritual power written about in I and II Thessalonians. Please read and THINK about I Thessalonians 2:13 in the context of those days and the depth of importance attached to WORDS,…especially if someone purported to be a spokesman for God. They didn’t have New Testament “Gospels” and “Epistles” to refer to. Yet, they are offered to us as templates to conform to as “believers”. Simple people, scientific explanations were not required to believe the Truth that was SPOKEN. They wanted to hear something that fit in the frame of their minds, of their lives and then see something to prove whether or not God was faithful to HIS WORD. Evidently, they were not disappointed. Had they not been favorably impressed, the name of Jesus and Paul would be buried in the rubble of Rome. And, you would have no Book to read. It’s all still available today – when you find someone TEACHING the right stuff. (If it isn’t, my wife and I are dead as Nero.)
So, what harbour for the S.S. McDonald tonite?

Carlucci

These “predictions” have been going on for centuries. Tomorrow will come and go, and the world will keep turning.

jeanelane

You are right, Carucci.

I, personally, don’t believe that ‘the end’ or the Rapture or whatever word someone want to use, will occur on any date that a person says. God will definitely do whatever on the date he chooses. It will have no correlation to a date that man chooses.

It does not matter if the Rapture occurs 05/21/2011 or 12/21/2011 or any other day. What matters is if you are ready to meet your Maker face-to-face when it is your time. As the article says, a car accident, a crazed gunman, anything can cause this moment to be your last.

Carlucci

Amen, jeanelane. You hit the nail on the head. God bless you.
Mike in MI

Good one, jeanelane (and Mr. Livingston) -
Criminently, just think! Obama might even get re-elected – and America re-infected – again next year.
BET THAT’LL SHORTEN THE DAYS?

http://burkecomputers.blogspot.com/ DanB

I wonder how many will lose their faith over this. Then there will be others that say there is no Christ because there is no “rapture.” It seems to me that even in the spiritual realm, history is repeating itself so I expect things to get a lot worse for the believers. May I count myself a believer until the end, for if the Bible is any hint about these “last days” then things are going to get a lot rougher still.

Felix

People who will lose their faith over someone’s words are not believers in G-d, they have their Prophets who are more important than G-d Himself, I can only pity them, for they are in Hell every day…

Jana

Felix,
You can spell out the name of GOD. Also, I agree with your post.
Nadzieja Batki

Out of respect for God and not to take his name in vain accidently, there are people that will write God as G-d.
Jana

Nadzieja,
I kinda thought that was why he was not spelling GOD’S name out, but we show true respect by loving HIM and honoring HIM and not being afraid of saying HIS name. We know if we are showing disrespect to GOD or not, and so does GOD.
Have a nice day sweetie.

http://www.livinginthetwohearts.wordpress.com Anne Elizabeth

Awh, the Rapture Trap! The wonderful idea that no good Christian would be held accountable for the sins of mankind. I wonder, when May 21st comes and goes and the 22nd arrives on it’s heels, will these folks turn to Mr Camping and ask him, “Did you just get the date wrong?” Or, hope beyond hope, they’ll wake up to reality and listen again to the words of our Savior, “Then if any says to you, ‘Lo, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and FALSE PROPHETS will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Lo, I have told you before hand.” ~Mt 24:23-25

Al

On the 22nd we will be asking Mr.Camping if he was not enough of a believer to be called up into the kingdom of God. Did God forget to call him up and why he is still here.

April

Al
The last thing Mr. Camping will need is teasing and to be ridiculed for when he wakes up on the 22nd, 23rd, etc. he will be humiliated enough. I know he set himself up, but I hope and pray that he will be encouraged to study deeper and that his eyes will be opened to the truth; that he will realize the difference between the trumps and the seals. The trumps are in chronological order; the seals are not. The 6th trump must come before the 7th.
Anti(instead of)-Christ comes in the 6th trump. The True Christ returns at the 7th.
RM

I’m not worried about Harold Camping because he is totally deceived. I am concerned about the people who surround him who know this guy is way off and they wont get him out of there. I actually spoke to their office and actually talked to Harold Camping. He is rather arrogant and adamant about his way and honestly, he may not ever get it but the people around him are slow to move. It’s too bad because the radio station played nice hymns and the teachings were mostly correct until he started adding his false prophecies. With that being said, there will be many false teachers rising soon…beware..

http://Personalliberty Tony

To everyone:
Right on!! This is totally nuts. It says in Revelations to beware of false prophets in the end days. Thanks!! Also, keep the faith!!
Charles

I will still confess my faith in Jesus on Sunday the 22nd; as well on the 23rd, the 24th,… and through out eternity!!!

Jana

Charles,
Exactly! We live every day the same. No one is promised a tomorrow anyway, so we need to be ready at any given moment, but the rapture? Tomorrow? No way.

http://naver samurai

Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

Mike in MI

YEA, Charles – That’s one of THE MOST reasonable things I’ve seen on this board out of everything that’s been written, so far.

In Mark 13:32-33 Jesus Christ said concerning that day or that hour not anyone knows, not even (absolute negation) the son (o’ uio’s – and he was the only one classifiable as THE SON). Then he said, “… for ye know not (absolute “not”) when the time (kairo’s) is.” He told this just before his trials and crucifixion were to begin. “Kairo’s” is a certain, determined period like a harvest or the historic setting in “time” (Passover) for finishing Christ’s ministry to Israel, exclusively.
In studying the prophecies for these events one must be careful about words regarding timing, eg. when, then, after, before, while, immedately, etc.

Then, in Acts 1:7 ten days before Pentecost, he told them again. They had asked if he were going to restore the kingdom to Israel when they were to recieve spiritual power. Again he told them it was not theirs to know a marked duration (xronos) or set time (kairos) which the Father placed in His own authority. He had just finished being with them and teaching things concerning the kingdom of God for forty days. He must not have taught it then. So, God was holding that info pretty close to His chest.
Further, when he revealed to Apostle Paul the things regarding the Mystery of God He kept that back or told him not to write it. Why make it known? Everybody would know and only get all “holy, holy, holy” the week before his arrival is known to be set. God ain’t stupid.

Consequently, anybody who tries to tell you he knows when it is to happen is violating I Peter 1:20-21…”privately interpreting” The Word. That’s a STUPID thing to do because it’s the first thing we’re to know we must not do. At some point you must add to it, subtract from it or make up your own version of it. There can be various
paraphrases in languages other than the manuscripts (has to be – language changes). But to depart from the Father’s intent and usage is blasphemy. It is diffiult to get too far away from Truth without it becoming evident. Apostle Paul, in I Timothy 1:3, told Timothy to command some not to teach any other doctrine. How do you know if you’ve got “any other doctrine”?

God stops responding.

Sam

AMEN! No one knoweth the day or the hour!

Richard

I am ready to get on the raprure plane that takes me to that free dinner. I wonder if it’s all you can eat, would being a glutton be bad? (I saw a movie called Horizons where the alens raptured people to eat their brains) Just kidding..
If you study the resurrection of the Just and unjust (only 2 talked about in the bible) that Christ talked about, you no longer have room for the raprure because the resurrection is what’s seen on the verses, not a “rapture”. Besides the rapture has the error of dispensation. There is only saved and un saved, not an almost saved antichrist group. If you don’t profess Christ, you are anti-christ! So, most of the world is antichrist..
Spirit of error is not from God.

Robert Smith

Hey Richard, when you go can I have your car?

Rob

http://naver samurai

Leave it to you moron to try to make a joke, not a good one either. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
R. Smullen

I thought it was funny too.
http://naver samurai

No semse of humor. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
cvw

That’s actually pretty funny and I think in this circumstance is the correct reaction to this. This same guy predicted this 20 years ago. I guess if he keeps trying one day he will get it or at least close. Meanwhile for the rest of us it needs to be a lesson to simply be ready for your life to end without a moments notice.
JimH

Hey Robbie, When the meek inherit the Earth, I get your house.
Mike in MI

JimH ????? – ????What? And give up your Mansion Jesus Christ said he’s prepared? Well, OK, but just be aware you might have to answer for whatever he’s grows in there or has spontaneously generated from all the fertilizer he exudes.
JimH

Mike, The real joke is that statement is my being boastful about my meekness.
diana

massive laugh!!!! ….
http://naver samurai

Another one with no humor. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Jana

Hey Samurai,
Its after 6 and we are still here. HHALLELUJAH.
http://naver samurai

You’re right Jana. I don’t believe anything will happen until God wills it. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

ever says hal la lulu

14 hours to go …… be darn if another miscalculation happened ..

where’s the flying saucers to take us away ???

sure, i would like my photo taken before that big sign board of the ‘coming’ or eh ‘raptured’, paint me a halo

cvw

Well now a savvy investor would put some big bux into aluminum foil futures for the day. Just think of the profits with so many making hats.

Jana

Richard,
Amen.
http://www.jeffreyallendavis.tk Jeff Davis

Amen, Richard.
http://naver samurai

Amen to that! Amen to that! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
John Terry

Jesus made it quite clear when he said, “Concerning that day and hour, no one knows, neither the angels of heaven or the son, but only the father.”

Truth is, there is no actual date. Only the Father of Jesus shall make this determination. When he decides, that is when. Just like Jesus said. Only his father knows because only his father can make that decision.

End Of The World? Only The Father Knows

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