I didn’t read it on the internet, but in the paper about a year ago. It was about interviews that were given by scientists who don’t agree with Al Gore’s assessment. They had done their own investigation by going to the ice and measuring it. They found it had actually thickened.
It came out recently that scientists in England, I believe, had falsified results about global warming.

You are right AC, I have read that as well. Not to mention that this is one of the coldest winters we have had on record where I live! It is has been so cold in fact that the joke is now when it snows in the middle of April and temps dive back under 25 degrees people say, “gotta love that global warming!”

I saw an article in the newspaper about 15 years or os ago. A climatologist who had worked in that field was warning the world that climates were reverting from their odd pattern to the normal pattern.

The “odd pattern” was being able to foretell the weather for weeks, months, and even years in advance. That started in the mid-20′s according to him. The “normal pattern” was not being able to tell the weather for more than a couple of days in advance – if you were lucky. He was trying to warn the world that the farmers were going to be plagued with floods, droughts, etc. and if we expected to have enough food to feed everyone we needed to plant about twice as much, expecting to harvest only half of it. He stated that he had records of it snowing in Mexico City on July 4th back in the 1800s and that we could expect the “Normal” patterns to do simiiar things.

All the “scientists” studying global warming look only at the records in the world over the last fify years or so – when we had abnormal weather patterns.

Arctic Ice today is “Normal” . . . . The snow-pak in the Canadian Rockes is 30% above normal “Today” . . .

Antarctic ice growing, not melting

18 Apr 09 – “Ice is expanding in much of Antarctica, contrary to the widespread public belief that global warming is melting the continental ice cap,” says this article in The Australian.

“The results of ice-core drilling and sea ice monitoring indicate there is no large-scale melting of ice over most of Antarctica, although experts are concerned at ice losses on the continent’s western coast.

“East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week’s meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown “significant cooling in recent decades”.

“Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

“Dr Allison said there was not any evidence of significant change in the mass of ice shelves in east Antarctica nor any indication that its ice cap was melting. “The only significant calvings in Antarctica have been in the west,” he said. And he cautioned that calvings of the magnitude seen recently in west Antarctica might not be unusual…………..”

“Antarctica has 90 per cent of the Earth’s ice and 80 per cent of its fresh water.”

If Antarctica contains 90 percent of the earth’s ice – and the amount is increasing – wouldn’t that mean that more than 90 percent of the world’s glaciers are growing? (As I’ve been saying all along.)
See entire article by Greg Roberts
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25348657-401,00.html
Thanks to snowyman in Australia for this link

I’ve seen a lot of this type of info elsewhere too. And I’ve also seen a report that says if ALL the world’s ice melted, we could expect to see the oceans rise by 20 inches – not feet. Much of what the global alarmists are calling ice is actually rock. The ice in the Artic Ocean won’t raise the ocean level if it melts by one millimeter – it floats. Floating ice doesn’t raise the water level. If you don’t believe it, fill a glass with ice and water and then mark the water level and let the ice melt. It remains the same since liquid is denser than solid water.

Melting water that could raise the ocean only comes from ice on land. There are some mountainous areas of Greenland and Antartica that are being considered as ice. In fact one reason the penquins go so far inland to lay their eggs is because they want those eggs on land and not ice.

Jovi- Here ya go: Greenland’s icecap has thickened slightly in recent years despite concerns that it is thawing out due to global warming, says an international team of scientists.

A team led by Professor Ola Johannessen, at the Nansen Environmental and Remote Sensing Center in Norway, report their findings online ahead of print publication in the journal Science.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=95908

Here are a few Jovi Anus, one is http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/271218, and another is http://www.iceagenow.com. Or if you want to see hundreds of others, just good Polar ice caps growing, and there are tons of them. Of course, dont go there unless you really want to know, and see how much Al Gore and his ilk are lying.

That was a typo of the worst kind. That should read “Just Google Polar Ice Caps Growing”.

You got that right. Like Michelle telling us all we just all need to tighten our purse strings and get through this together, then goes out and has a couple hundred dollar lobster dinner. Sweet. Nice, real nice. Her and that long legged mack daddy husband of hers are really enjoying spending all our money. I used to think the Clintons were America’s worst nightmare, you know, white trash with money. That was bad. I think these two have stepped it up a notch higher.

And you aren’t kidding there! He, both of them, run around like a couple of celebrities and socialits. Only, it is on our dime, and they have virtually accomplished nothing except destruction. What did he make this year? 1.1 mill? After taxes, that didn’t even cover Michelle’s trip to Spain. They treat our tax dollars like their own open-ended personal check book.

So true Doctor Mom, you hold true treasure!

Go back and read your Bible some more. The Bible does not state that when you die, you are automatically taken to heaven. It does state, however, that the dead in Christ will be the first to arise; and further, that these newly arisen souls would be part of Christ’s army when He returns for the last and final battle in the Valley of Megiddo.

And I don’t believe that Christ will be all love and kisses in that final battle either, despite what some try to say.

That’s right 45caliber, He first came as a Sacrificial Lamb, the next time He comes, and very soon, will be as a Conquering Lion!!!

You got that right. The first time He came, He came for one reason and one reason only, to serve man. That pretty much is why the Jewish community rejects Him today. They pictured Him coming in triumph to lay His judgment and wrath down upon His enemies, as the Bible says He will do when He comes again. When He came to serve man, and gave Him self up for us, that isnt what they wanted or thought. But your right, when He comes again, I would not want to be one of those walking the earth in that day, as its not going to be pretty. I know that if Im not already dead, I will be taken up, in what is referred to as the rapture, of which that actual word is not referred to in the Bible. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 tells about all this, but to use just part of this, in verse 17, it says “after that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” The “them” it refers to, is those that someone referred to in an earlier post about the “dead in Christ will rise first”. But He is coming, and this time, He will mete out His judgement.

Also, the Spirit that presently restrains, will be removed. I can’t imagine the horror as a result of God abandoning man!

It will be like the anarchy in the Mad Max movies, where groups just go around preying on others and killing them and taking what they have, until they are all wiped out, when God decides to take them out.

It seems to me an awful lot of our high governmental folks are heavy ethanol consumers, so naturally they would want more production!

And precious few have any background in chemistry, or economics; most all are political science of one sort or another, so they do not understand chemistry, mechanics, physics; nearly all know next to nothing of virtually any real science.

Might help a lot if a degree in any exact science were a requirement in this very technological age for being a congressman at the national level, and perhaps state level too.

And how long does it take for their pollution to hit the USA and Canada?

They dont care. As blunt as that may sound, its the truth. They dont care.

Exactly Beberoni and Lewis. I know people that live and work in China. They moved their business to China for more favorable tax rates and will be the first to tell you that the Chinese really love their cars and aren’t about to give them up. Beijing is experiencing some of the worst traffic and congestion in the world as the govt. is scrambling to make the underground subway more “cool” to entice people to use it. Not to reduce energy consumption, but to relieve some of the congestion on the freeways. And believe me, the Chinese think that we Americans are STUPID, they laugh at our folly, they laugh at our government, they laugh at all of our misguided policies, regulations and attempt to control the environment and they don’t care. They aren’t in debt, WE ARE!

Well, of course China is in good shape. It’s called total governmental control, or communism. Which way do you want it Thamera? You’re anti-communism but using China as your example of a debt-free country that’s laughing at us.

And you believe we should mimic China’s government as a good thing?

Perhaps you should visit China for a couple of years. They aren’t worried about pollution – that’s something the US does. One friend who goes to China on business regularly told me that one town he visited makes phosphorous … in their homes. They dig the ore by hand, take it home and smelt it on their kitchen stoves. Then they put it into a 30 gallon barrel and carry it on a bycycle to the port to sell. Every person in town, including new babies, have burns and scars from it. The people breathe it daily as they work in their kitchens. Do YOU want to live like that?

45 – I was being facetious with Thamera. Don’t get your panties in a bunch!

Did I say China was in good shape karolyn? China has become more capitalistic than America karolyn. AS China progresses we digress into the abyss of “progressive change”. China has overcome a lot in the past 30 years but there is still a lot to be desired. My dear lady you live a very sheltered life.

Far, far from sheltered, Thamera.

karolyn:

I have to agree with Thamera

Karolyn-They may be debt free now, but look at how their population lives. That is where we are headed, only bankrupt.

We do have far, far too many governmental controls, too much red tape and governmental interference. Some is need, many are not. But because China has money right now, is no reason to blatantly dump large amounts of chemicals and waste into streams and rivers, and kill people downstream in native areas, and not care. They are ignorant, or just dont care. Back in our industrial revolution, people just didnt know about the damage they were doing dumping everything. Im sure they thought the water would just carry it away and disperse it. Now days we know better. In China, they havent yet found out that there are consequences to being industrialized. It is new to them. But their government could care less about people in most instances, and it doesnt bother them to let places dump waste in the rivers and streams, because those same people downstream are expendable to them, and they dont care. And no amount of money makes that right. No amount. That is not success to me. That is blatant stupidity. And they will pay for it sooner or later.

Our state just invested in a large wind farm with promises of lowered energy bills and guess what? It has turned into a huge, wasteful and expensive boondoggle which is going to INCREASE the price of energy for all of us and has thoroughly embarrassed the state legislatures as they scramble to try and make all of this “palatable” for us living here. Morons.

Thamera-Wasn’t that GE and T. Boone Pickens? I was trying to find a quote I thought I read somewhere that wind generation will never pay off. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,450464,00.html

It wont, and solar panels are only good if your guaranteed sun all day. Like a place I went to fish in Canada years ago, built a laundry/shower room, all lighted and water heated and powered by this big ugly solar panels they put in where they cut down a bunch of the trees. Yeah, that is what they did. The first day, it was nice having a hot shower, because in the past it wasnt there, and you either went dirty or warmed up water on a coleman stove. However, it turned cloudy and rained most of the week, and needless to say, to go to the bathroom in there, you had to take a flashlight or lantern, because there wasnt even enough power to light a single light bulb. Highly unreliable energy source, expensive, and not practical for most places. And wind farms, most for one cannot afford them or the land to put them on, they are eyesores, and they kill birds and wildlife, and dont put out enough energy to compensate what they cost to build. Then, talk to some areas that have had them for awhile, and have had to have people come in and work on them because a bearing wore out or something like that. Very, very expensive. Not the answer at all.

Lewis-Wonder no longer. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574376543308399048.html

This is a perfect example of government interferance and wrongful regulations, where they pick and choose to whom the law applies. Because these windmill folks have lined the pockets of government officials, and the government hasnt given them a black eye yet, like the democrats have big oil, they get a free pass. Just remember when demonizing the oil companies like so many do, that yes, although they do make billions, these same politicians that demonize them to the the general public, seemingly make more money off of the oil sold in this country than do the oil companies.

Yes, and when they got caught in their lies they just changed their terminology to fit their lies because they truly think that we are all complete idiots..ie global warming is now climate change (lol). Anyone who doesn’t find the egotistical, condescending nature of elites like Al Gore offensive and demeaning deserve to be a pawn in their grab for power and money.

How much CO2 does Al Gore’s private jet give off each mile of all the trips he makes? Does he use it to go to his favorite stores shopping?

Beberoni-GE also finances many of the retailers credit cards.

Probably the ones that break in half after 2 months..

I agree wirth yoiu, Howe, on many items. Because we have one time around, from the ice record, we need to do it really correctly, not politically corrtectly, especially not liberally politically correctly, ending stuck on an earth under the dictatorship of the Liberals.

We get another Rome going, shows for the oppressed public, wild parties for the rich, and sacrificing the conservatives and the religious who mention the defects of society, and man may never recover!

And I think that is part of the problem as to why we arent drilling our own. I think the plan is to suck them dry and then we will have all the oil power. Problem is, from everything Ive read, it takes approximately 10 years from starting a drilling operation to having it pumped out, refined and ready for use. And we need refineries, which take awhile to build also. So do we have enough reserves to get us through 10 years? That is the question.

Not under current governmental policies.

Tho maybe we can disguise wells as wind turbines!!

And who is the one single factor that makes the most on a gallon of gas? The US government and its tax of .46 a gallon, or somewhere around that, and oh yeah, Obama wants to raise that, evidently to make up for the lost revenue of all the jobs he keeps costing us, and to raise more money to pay for all the government jobs he keeps creating as he does the democrat thing, of growing government.

Federal Excise Tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. The states and localities tack on even higher amounts, resulting in an average of around 50 cents total Fed, state & local.

First they attacked the smokers and drove off all those millions in taxes they were collecting. Now they want to get everyone off of gasoline and onto electric cars, then they will lose all those billions of tax dollars. What next, Campbell soup? They wont overdue going after the liquor and beer and wine industries, because they all use those products. So maybe bubble gum? Crackers? It wont stop, they will go from one thing to the next, until they chase it all away. Dumb butts.

Agreed, based on limited experience. Singapore is a nice country, but incredibly messy when the religious festivals occur, with paper stuff all over, food spoiling at the curb, etc.

I agree, and I still think he is totally unelectable, and the democrats know it, and as it gets closer, I think you will see them pressure him into announcing he will not see re-election. They would force him out, but he has a card he can play that they fear.

What do you think the odds are he will make a Presidential Mandate that everybody vote for him or not vote at all? Or get Harry Reid and all his loyal congressmen to pass a late-night law changing the election rules so only votes cast for him will be counted?

Harry’s computer repairmen can also change the algorithms so the computers give every other vote that is not for him to him, so he wins in a landslide. But the tampering is not obvious.

Lewis:

Hairy’s computer repairmen are all union. Imagine that!

A democrat in bed with union guys? No way man. So it aint so?

Sounds like the coin toss of “heads I win, tails you lose” scam.

“No matter what “good intentions” are thought behind all of these enviro(mental)ists…”

You’ve hit the nail head on. It has always struck me that there are two kinds of liberals, the first type with genuine (though misguided) concerns for “social justice,” saving the environment, etc. and the second type who are the power-hungry, prevaricating propagandists who prey on the fears and sympathies of the true bleeding hearts.

Notwithstanding the noble intentions of the liberal masses, the opportunist politicians are abusing these good intentions to forward an agenda that will accomplish two things: to line their coffers and consolidate their power over other people.

I read in a book long ago that said the world’s problems revolve around two kinds of people – the busybodies who want to control everything and everyone, and the ones who want to be left alone. I want to be left alone.

Me too Carlucci – I get tired of all those nosy baboons.

Ditto, Carlucci. My dog and I will survive just fine.

P.S. Thanks for the offer on “Shadow,” but I’d die without him.

I know you would, Vigilant. Shadow sounds wonderful – Huskies are so gorgeous. I feel the same way about my big red puppy dog Willem (collie/chow/german shepherd/golden retriever mix). He is awesome. After my husband died I wanted to die, too. Thank goodness my two dogs were such a comfort to me. Don’t know what I would have done without them. Sadly, my basset hound Chloe passed away 2+ years after I lost my husband. That just about killed me. I still miss my “big boned gal”, but I’m so grateful I still have Mr. Willem.

They talk of change, but they want all our folding money instead.

That is their choice and yours. Or don’t you believe in allowing people to make their own choices? I think you have demonstrated a Totalitarian belief system in most of your posts here.

Karolyn, you’re sounding more radical all the time! As Conservative at Birth says, that IS their choice. We all get to make them – rather we MUST make them. For you to talk down to the choices of others actually paints you with the “progressive” brush in some of the worst possible ways (not that there are any good ways to be painted with that particular brush).

karolyn:

You almost got it. You said they mine coal because there isn’t anything else to do to earn a living. Correct. So … you want to bann it so they can’t get sick mining it? Then what would their life style be? Welfare recipients?

You can go too far trying to keep someone safe. What needs to be done – and I suspect IS done – is that they have improved the safety of doing the mining. And they will continue to do that. That makes a lot more sense to me than forcing them all to live in the poverty level on welfare.

Not only that, but these people are coal mining people, and they embrace it, and they are proud of it. And things have come a long way since what Karolyn is talking about with everyone on the corner having cancer from it. In the old days, they had no ventilation, no masks, and it was terrible. They now have plenty of safeguards, and pump in oxygen and make it a much safer, and cleaner process than it ever was. We need to use our coal and our oil, and dump these Saudi’s to the curb, or at least start taking some of their oil for protecting them, because without our backing, Saudi Arabia would have fallen a long, long time ago.

On TV you say, well then, I guess that makes it the Gospel! Tele-evangelism is still going strong, hey Karolyn!

Execute the coal miners and their families at once…stop delaying. Be pre-emptive on cancer. Much cheaper to kill them all now, and cut medical costs.

Do that same thing for smokers, too, while we are at it.

Why only coal miners and smokers? Why not obese people, the mentally challenged, people who engage in risky behaviour like; homosexuals, athletes engaged in contact sports, people that live on fault-lines, near volcanos…and so on!

DUH, did you notice that those moron’s on that show, choose not to wear any type of breathing protection? They made a choice, so don’t cry to me. Pat attention!

But, Karolyn, you just said earlier that the Earth would do just fine without us. Make up your mind.
And, unless I’m wrong, nobody put a gun to those coal-miners’ heads to force them to work in those mines.
We all are going to die someday, Karolyn. How about you and your Liberal friends making life a little easier by butting out of our personal choices?

Funny isn’t it DaveH how people like karolyn are so concerned with how people act, what they say, what they do, but then champion issues like…abortion????

Because, as you and I know, their policies are all about relieving other people of their money and that is all.

hamera I do not “champion” abortion. I advocate “free choice.”

“Free choice” is code word for; Kill the polluting and resource consuming human!

Jay – You’re all for less government and laws and more freedom only when it suits your belief system.

Ditto, Karolyn. So how about practicing what you preach?

And now karolyn, based on former posts involving abortion, you are just being dis-in-genuine. I am also pro-choice in that I believe people have free agency, but – I abhor the practice of abortion…do you?

Karolyn – Free Choice – is a left wing liberal term that means its ok to murder an infant in their mothers womb by sucking them out and tearing them to pieces. Its murder, and there is no other way to put it. I dont care if your a Christian like me, or an Atheist like DaveH, the act of ending ones life intentionally like that, is murder. If you dont want the child, give it up for abortion, so that someone who lovingly wants a child but cant have one, can take this helpless child off your hands and give them a decent chance of having a good life. Free Choice. What a cop-out term that is.

karolyn, have you seen the commercial where the pre-teen little girl puts a cigarette in her mouth and a side clip comes in showing an old lady with a hole(tracheotomy)in her throat still smoking a cigarette? Do you know who’s paying for that commercial? The American Taxpayers.

Propaganda pure and simple. FYI, I don’t and never have smoked but I do feel for the smokers that are forced to pay exorbitantnt prices on their smokes because of anti-smokers and government force.

The thing that Karolyn and other Liberals don’t understand is that none of us is going to get out of this life alive. The best we can do is leave other people alone to make their own mistakes, and then let them pay for their own mistakes. That’s the peaceful way.

Dave – Why would you think I don’t understand that?

Karolyn-I think people get that idea about you from your previous posts on how the gov’t. should regulate more, take care of everything, make decisions for everyone in a one size fits all mentality. It is you and you alone who make people think of you that way.

Your right Dave, to a point. Like I dont smoke or do drugs, but to those that want to, they are going to regardless of what anybody or anylaw says, so let them do it, as long as they arent harming others. But when it comes to someone sucking a live child out of their mother, then there is another in this picture, who is not having their feelings taken into consideration, and that is the baby being sucked out. I have to draw a line there, and say no, you can just do what you want, because in doing that, you are murdering another. I have no acceptance of that at all.

Patty – That is not true. I most emphatically DO NOT support more government regulation and have never said I did.

Karolyn-Then exactly what does this mean?
karolyn says:
April 20, 2011 at 8:02 am
The only thing that can help us at the pump is more regulation on Wall Street. I’m sure you know that the reason for our high prices on gas are the greedy oil speculators.

And it didn’t take me long to find that. It is your post on this same blog. You said it in this post, and you have said it in others.
I just don’t have the time to find them all.

And yet, they still collect millions in tobacco taxes that are in turn used to vilify smokers!

Imagine that!

Some of us believe we are here to glorify our Maker and serve those we can who are in need.

Agreed.

We could say living is dangerous, and maybe all living things should be killed now! Think of the slaughter of germs with antiseptics! Trillions every day.

Did you know that there used to be wild salmon swimming in the Thames?

Yeah, the same state that put their school buses on bio-diesel fuel, you know, to save the environment. Only thing is, bio-diesel fuel gels when it gets cold, so winter came and none of the buses would run. So then they built great big garages, with running heat 24-7 to keep the buses warm so that they would run in the morning. But there was a problem. Not all of them would fit in the garages. So the rest of them, they pulled up and parked outside, and just let them run all night so they would work in the morning. Genius. Sheer stinking genius. So now that they have saved the environment going to bio-diesel fuel, they are burning natural gas all night to heat buildings and burning bio-fuel all night in the other ones so that they will run. What a joke. They are causing much, much more damage to the environment than if they would have just left it be. Of course, then they also elected Al Franken, so you can see what kind of people we are dealing with here. Unbelievable.

Ya, and those mandatory CFL bulbs don’t work worth a you know what in this climate! Also, can anyone here who believes in all of this global warming tell me where they are going to put all of these car batteries once used up? Hello landfill! Also, our electrical grid will not support the charging of all these vehicles if everyone moves in that direction. Do they realize we will have to build more nuclear and coal plants to generate enough electricity to run them? I cannot believe the amount of uneducated masses.

Never underestimate the wiles of the tax collector.

But wonder why the governments do not raise the taxes on other technologies too, or…reduce the controls so they do not have to spend so much money?

Exactly Patty, energy costs will only continue to increase as well as taxes. They will only shift from one place to another. The green movement is only another attempt to control people and it is scary isn’t it how many people gulp that down so eagerly but then claim that it is groups like the tea party that are attempting to take away our freedom? It really does put into question ones lucidity…(Denniso, Jovi, Bob w….)

Everyone try this. Open another screen. In your upper finder box (mine is google) key in your cell phone number. I did this and it showed on a map where I was at in the suburbs. I tried it from a clients office space downtown on my computer there. It showed me that my cell phone was downtown within a block of where I was. I don’t have GPS on my phone or tracking turned on. Kinda scary!

patty, I did a trace on my cell phone and the city is correct but the location and the carrier are incorrect. I will admit that the name that pops up on the caller ID’s I call shows someone elses name…not even close. I’ve had my current cell phone service for 3 years and even tried to get the ID corrected. Now I’m glad it is incorrect and I’m leavin it that way.

JeffH – Try it from a different computer and location. I don’t quite get “traced” in your comment. Your phone has a GPS in it and gives the location where you are at if you punch it into google (whether you have it turned on or not. If you email someone a picture from your phone, it gives the GPS coordinates of where that pic was taken. On vacation? The ones that want to rob you will know by cruising the web. There is just too much info buried in whatever you communicate to others that you may not even realize. I never post anything even remotely traceable on facebook. I absolutely remove any “tags” on any picture of me posted on that site. It just seems like why too much big brother for me.

IT was SARCASM – of course it was an urban myth……

Not … necessarily.

I’ve ridden in a Trihumph that got 75 mpg. I wish I had one now.

And I’ve read an article about the son of the creator of the first carborator. Between him and his father, they had 85% of all patents on those.

At present about 15% of the gasoline is vaporized and used for power. The rest is burned as small droplets in the exhaust. That’s one reason so many vehicles have catalystic converters – they are there to insure the droplets burn. But they do NOT provide energy.

The person above created a carborator that would vaporize 35% of the gasoline. Basically is lightly more than doubled the gas milage. If your car got 1 mpg, it would now get 2. If it got 50 mpg, it could get 100. He was not allowed by the Dept. of Energy to make and sell these because they were afraid they would lose too much tax.

Dale-I tried to find that same thing and could only find that it was a myth also.

You are living proof of idiocy!!!!!!!!!!!

You talk like the Earth is a human being and have been smoking a little too much medical marijuana. Exactly what part of the Earth are you anyway and what part of the Earth is in you? E

WOW!! Talk about unthinking people! What part of a peraosn is the earth? Let’s see…Every single human(all plants,animals)from the very beginning of life drinks water from the earth to stay alive and grow from a fertilized egg….try not drinking any water for a week and get back to me on it’s importance. Every single human is nourished from food that comes directly from the earth…go for a month or two and see how tou do w/o food from the earth. The very air we breath is also a part of the earth,isn’t it? Would the earth resemble what it is w/o it’s atmosphere and the oxygen it contains for
us to breathe? Try holding your breath for 10 mins and see how well you do.

You people think it’s radical to maintain that we are part of the earth,when we evolved and grew directly from it and are constantly sustained by it? My God,what blind rightwingers w/ apparently NO clue about anything.

“…the earth could live quite well without human beings.”

Then who would take care of my Siberian Husky?

I WILL!!!

Thank you patty! (:-)

me too – !!

karolyn:

It is the nature of ALL LIVING THINGS to use what is available. If there becomes too many deer, they eat all the food and starve. If they starve, so do the preditors. If they try to move to another location, the animal rights people complain about it and want them moved back so they can starve since it is “nature’s way”. If man tries to feed them, the animal rights people complain about that too.

Yes, we use things. And we try to replace them if possible. You are listening to too many of the “green” comments.

Remember in any environment – man is a PART of that enviornment, not seperate from it. Just like all other life.

la, la, la, la, la, la la, or, waa, waa, waa, waa, or babble, babble, babble, or ……

Patty, how does this relate to anything in the discussion?

I clicked on the “reply” under Karolyn’s post and it ended up way down here. I was posting sarcatically to Karolyn who constantly seems to babble and yet, say nothing.

Mankind was not made for nature, but for the worship and glory God, however, nature was made for man! “Be fruitful and multiply and SUBDUE the earth”. Thank you God, I think I will! It is anathema in the eyes of God to worship nature, absolutely the most retarded thing a human being could do! Its idolatry, pure and simple. But when we turn our backs on God and dismiss Him from our lives, we immediately step into Idolatry, why? Because, the chief function of mankind is to worship His Creator, like breathing and the heart beating, worship is fundamental to humankind’s existence, if we will not worship the Creator, we will worship the creation!!!

We sure have a lot who worship the creation, even to dispoiling it.

We could plunder the earth for the next million years and still not exhaust the resources God has placed in nature! The over population and scarce resources myths were invented by the greedy elite who wish to have more for themselves, but like the greedy simpletons that they are, they do not realize that the Creator can provide beyond what we can possibly imagine! Also, the simpletons that believe in the myths, are just that, simpletons, typically atheists, go figure!

You type so many words, and yet you say nothing.

That’s because you have nothing in your head!

Maybe JIBBS that is because you have not read his posts, or, you lack the comprehension to understand so many words at one time. LOL!

You are correct. But there are some people who insist mankind is the only real god. It makes them feel far more important.

Is this why so many are hellbent on destroying the earth, or remaking it into the image they want?

Maybe. But God calls us to be good stewards of all we have been given, and that includes the earth. We should take care of it as we can, and not do stupid things like dump old oil into the woods, or antifreeze and chemicals down the sink. We shouldnt throw our wrappers and bottles and cans out the windows of our cars, or our cig butts on the ground. But as someone else posted, many think of themselves as being god, and they do want they want to do, and just dont care. But those who profess to know God, are charged with caring about it. But I myself, I dont believe in global warming, Ive looked at weather patterns since theyve recorded them, and I see them as being a cyclical thing, with no know pattern. And I sure as heck arent going to put 65 thousand dollars worth of solar panels on my roof, or buy 20 acres and put up 200 windmills that I cant afford, let alone aford the upkeep on them. I love the forest, the woods, the streams, the mountains and oceans and lakes. But Im not a greenie, in any form. Those guys are extremists, and they do many dangerous and destructive things, even to this environment they claim to be “saving”.

45- Each and every one of us is important no matter what our beliefs.

do apply that same consideration to the unborn child karolyn?

Yes, 45caliber, the original sin! That’s what destroyed the highest ranking angel, Lucifer, he wanted to be god!

Ezekial 28: 12-19

45caliber, these insane and atheistic monsters will soon be wiped of the face of the earth! God will not allow this kind of madness and oppression to continue much longer! Good riddance to this pack of idiotic mules!!!

I hear Al Gore has built himself an oceanside mansion well below the predicted rise in ocean levels due solely to Man!

Wonder how long he can live in it?

Sounds like a very expensive coffin! And to think, that this lunatic, was once our Vice-President.

Sounds to me like someone has a serious depletage of Soylent Green TeaTM in his liquid regimen.Get on your Jack-boots,goose step out to your Chevy VoltTM and glide on over to the global marketTM.Scan you some Soylent Green TeaTM,and get with the program citizen.See you there!

Liberalism in general is a religion. It appeals to the uninformed citizens because the goals sound so good, but it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. So the followers must take it on faith.

Soylent Green is people.Liberals love people…yum people…..

I remember that movie Cawmun Cents!

Yes, I agree.

And they will do anything to further their religion, even to lying, falsifying data, and using political pressure to convert people.

They even have a pseudo-religious structure, and excommunicate and persecute those who find any flaws in it.

Absolutely, we need to be in the sun for vitamin D. However, there are many people who are prone to melanoma. I had a friend who had to keep getting things burned off her face and could not go out in the sun. Another has full-blown cancer that will kill her in the not-to-disant future. We all have cancer cells in us. Why they takeover in some but not in others might be due to genes.

Yeah, your right on the genetics thing. There are many families who have people die young of cancer who never smoked and stay out of the sun, but they get it anyhow, and some that smoke like chimneys and have no signs of it.

45cal – The truth is that the patent that Dupont had on freon was running out. They got the regulations past to eliminate freon and replace it with their new patented product. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/blackstock5.html
And the incestuous cycle continues….

And it will continue until the citizens wake up and realize that Government meddling in the Marketplace is causing our problems.
We need to get back to Free Markets, where the companies must please the consumers to succeed, rather than pleasing the politicians as is currently the case.

Sounds to me like there is a serious depletage of Soylent Green TeaTM in your daily supplements there DaveH.Report to the global marketTM and scan you some re-programming please.See you there citizen!

I think that is well stated.

Only exception I cam see is the control of things that are causing a hazard to the citizens and are not plainly tagged as to the hazard.

We then also need to be sure citizens can read and understand!

Don’t you think, Lewis, that the responsibility to read and learn is theirs?

No cawmun sense, Dave is right. The government should not be propping up some companies, and taxing the daylights out of others. If they cant manage their business correctly, let them sink, and let someone else step up and have a chance, and someone else would if the government would back off. But they put up so much red tape, and they give tax breaks to this company and that company, but other companies they tax and tax and tax, and they need to get out of the way, and let the free market work. I cant put it any simpler than this. If your selling a product I want, and at a price I am willing to pay, then you will make the sell to me. If your charging way too much, or selling an inferior product, Im not buying it, and chance are most people wont buy it either, and you will be out of business. And thats the way it should be. But when the government interferes, and helps this company that is failing, and punishes that company that is succeeding, then it screws up the whole thing. They should back off, and let the free market dictate, not government favoritism. That is big problem, and big government is a big problem. Dave is absolutely correct.

Totally agree, DaveH!

Patty, good post! How convenient that the eco-nazis hide the politics and the commercial side of this issue, or rather, non-issue! Also, in our schools, global warming or climate change is discussed in social studies, rather then, science class! Interesting, I suppose they are trying to avoid confusing the issue with scientific facts. My ten year old Son knows all the terminology but not the science with respect to this topic. Just as well, I relish the opportunity to explain it to Him. Thanks for the post!

so does my ten year old daughter Jay! It is frightening when your child comes home spouting all this PC drivel. They are so innocent and so trusting and believe everything their teachers say. Fortunately that does not go unnoticed in our home and we discuss everything! I am very active in my children’s education. You have to be!

I found it necessary to home-school as well as use the public schools, and also gave them when I was able some protestant parochial schooling, so they learned a lot of ways to approach subjects.

I have never regretted the mix, and am glad they were able to get such a comprehensive outlook on the world.

It is too bad we cannot get Education Vouchers to put kids in the schools we want and find give good education! In my opinion.

Totally agree with you, Thamera! We cannot afford to leave the education of our children entirely in the hands of the education system. Every day, after school, I engage in a de-brief and address any questionable information my Son will have heard that day! This is why the system is so hell-bent on driving a wedge between parents and their children, they fear that committed parents that are aware of the truth, will teach it to the children. As I said, He is ten, and at present He is aware of these; santa claus does not exist, main stream media as well as our politicians lie, the education system has become predatory and there is no such thing as the easter bunny, just a few of a long list! He does however, believe in the Sovereign, Omnipotent and loving Creator. If we are to cause any positive change, we as parents, must, protect and properly educate our children!!!

The same liberal think tank that wants to teach our kids that a bird shit on a rock, the sun fermented it, and up rose a man who could walk and talk and think. What a crock of bull.

Where did you study macroeconomics? Did you get a degree out of a Cracker Jax box?

Karolyn is right on this. When these speculators see a storm coming, or a damaged well, or anything that they “think” might disrupt drilling and production, they automatically up the prices. That does have a lot, a whole lot to do with it. Now also, there is the angle, of who they are in bed with, and who makes these instant profits when they speculate a rise and jack the price up. Someone is collecting.

No, Beberoni, neither of you are right. Speculators can only ride the roller coaster, they do not drive it. See my comment lower in this thread for a more thorough treatment of that subject.

The prediction is that, because of the ongoing crisis and the continued decline of the dollar, oil will go to $150 and then to $200 a barrel before the year is out. When it reaches these levels, Williams says, the plan is to cease purchasing oil from the Middle East and begin extracting it from Gull Island in Alaska’s Prudhoe Bay, from the nearby Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) in Alaska, and from the Bakken formation where North Dakota meets Canada.

In addition, 2 trillion barrels of shale oil lie beneath the Rocky Mountains may be tapped. Such a welcome retaliation to the Arab oil czars will certainly be applauded by the American people, who will be told that it is being done to lower prices at U.S. pumps. However, when such a result never comes and gasoline prices soar to $6 a gallon anyway, the American people will realize, too late again, that the only change made has been in who harvests the vast profits.

It is the Banks – World wide that run every country on the face of Eath. They mandate when and where things will run and how much it will be charged. Do not doubt this. The bible calls them whores and they are that. The pimps are the UN. They will herd us all into one category and tag us with their universal chips – This is the mark of the beast. where each and every human will be monitored. They also will control each and every military in existance. Next are the Unions who are the governments thugs who will stop at nothing to make sure that you do the goose step to their will. All reserves are being horded for their use – consider these carrots to dangle in front of your face. The beast runs Obama and that harlot beside him.

If you have not prayed before – you had better start praying now.

We do not pay attention to our own history. Sound money, gold and silver,over paper was a huge debate. One the general public lost. We should strive to separate bankers from creating the value of money, and politicians from the ability to own it. http://www.ourcaucus.com & http://www.GOOOH.com, & google “Web of debt”; read creature from Jekyll island.

The reason the price of fuel and food etc. is going up is because the dollar is crashing, not Wall Street speculators. hyperinflation is on the way.

Yep.

Follow the money.
At varying times, some of the top borrowers included Brussels-based Dexia Bank ($33.5 billion), Dublin-based Depfa Bank ($24.5 billion), Parisbased Societe Generale ($5 billion), Tokyo-based Norinchukin ($6 billion), Bank of China ($198 million) and two Deutsche Bank AG divisions ($1 billion each).

One of the most controversial was the Arab Banking Corp., which borrowed more than $35 billion. Arab Banking Corp. is 35 percent owned by the Central Bank of Libya. Regardless of what readers may think of Libya, the Federal Reserve made an estimated 73 loans to the Central Bank of Libya—the national bank of a country the U.S. military is currently bombing.And guess who owns the central bank of libya?Yep you guessed it the same ones that print the funny money and make us all pay for it.Hyper inflation sounds soft to me!One would bank and one world currency sounds the norm to me.

Frankly, it makes me tired reading your drivel, along with those who have shown up in suport of it! USE YOUR GOD-GIVEN BRAINS, PEOPLE! Regulation is not the answer. Regulation will stifle and otherwise destroy the market. If you really don’t like the price of fuel that much, then do something that the market will understand: don’t buy it! Do like the rest of the eco-nuts and ride your bicycle, or the bus, or ride-share…whatever.
But if you want the problem solved, then we need to do what Robin was bemoaning: drill here at home and allow refineries to be built!
And those “greedy oil speculators” are trying to provide for their families, just like you! Just becaus they’ve found a way to do it well does not mean that they’re evil. In fact, it strikes me that when the prices of oil go up and the price at the pump goes up, so does theirs! The question is, are they conservatives who give to charities, or are they “progressives” who don’t?

The speculators are enabled by ole barry the Socialist and his Lib Dem MORONS!! when Bush was President, the DAY he announced that the drilling prohibitions were removed the price of gas dropped and continued to drop every week!! That is the ONLY way to break the back of the speculators, but of course this DUFUS pres will not do that unless he is FORCED!! IMPEACH NOW!!!!!

For those who want to learn some reality about the dreaded “oil speculators”:
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9479

Dave – I read the piece at Cato, which is 2 years old, and then opened a recent video from the O’Reilly Factor in which there were still differences of opinion. I do have to say I still don’t understand why gas prices are so high. It is hard to comprehend the explanations.

Karolyn,
O’Reilly is clueless when it comes to Economics. Yet he will still flap his lips as if he isn’t.
I saw him a year or two ago arguing with Neil Cavuto about oil speculators. Cavuto (who does know about Economics) chewed him up and spit him out, but O’Reilly was too ignorant to know it.

The problem is not a lack of oil. People are not driving as much, but it will do no good, because it is those on top of the heap driving up the price of oil.

If you mean by “those on top of the heap”, the Regulators, you are correct.
In all the times that I have posted the rankings of the various countries based on their amount of Government regulation, have you ever once spent any time looking at those real world experiences to learn a little about the damages that Big Government does to countries, Karolyn?
I know, you “haven’t got the time”. Yet you somehow do have the time to put your two cents in on this board constantly.

D – I just read one; and the reasons I don’t read more is because I have more interests than politics.

Yet, you are here arguing about politics.

The best way to lower oil prices because we americans are the biggest consumers of it,is to stifle the economy cutting your gas consumption in half. How do you accomplish this? think of ways to combine trips when driving Do a home project that will make you want to stay home more.We did our backyard with a nice patio and bar-b-que pit and jacuzzi. We would frequent restaurants at least 2-3 times a week now we bar-b-que and enjoy our home a lot more. getting started on the man cave making the basement a family room living space. planning on doing a vegetable garden this holiday weekend.You will be amazed at the extra money you will have if you can cut your gasoline consumption in half. Our family(4) gas card went from $750 adverage a month down to $418. This is the only peaceful way to combat what is going on gas price wise. a stalled economy will get their attention and when there is surplus(there is surplus now because the Saudi’s slowed down production) Once they are drowning in their own oil the price will drop dramatically like last time. costs money and manpower to store it. make them drown in it.

Karolyn – The reason why gas prices are rising is number one, by design, how many times have you heard the ones pushing green say that gas should be somewhere between $5-7/gallon. # 2 your prez has taken competition out of the equation so that the mid-east knows there is no place else for us to get the oil. You can directly blame Obama for not letting us drill. How is that hope and change working for ya now? If you are hoping for lower prices on all of your needs, you better be hoping for a completely different administration from the prez all the way down. All of them, both sides.

OMG. Are you really that naive, Karolyn? What kept those dreaded speculators from driving our prices to the sky when there was even less Government? Speculation can only drive prices in the short term. Supply and Demand, or excess money creation are the long term drivers.
In Free Markets when the demand exceeds the supply, therefore resulting in higher prices, the producers get busy and produce more supply (because they’re “greedy” you know). Then as they fight for more market share and produce more the prices again fall.
Regulators just cost us more money — directly with their salaries, and then indirectly by hampering the productivity of their target companies.
The speculators risk their own money because they believe they know where the future prices are going. If they’re wrong, they lose. If they’re right, they win. By their willingness to risk their money, they provide the producers with some safety by allowing the producers to sell their product at known future prices, which allows them to make longer range plans than those which would have been possible if they were stuck only with the Spot Market.
Speculators can not drive long-term prices.
The main cause of higher oil prices (in US dollars) is that the Federal Reserve has been flooding the world with excess dollars. More dollars chasing fewer goods, thus higher prices.
Of course, those in power don’t want the ignorant masses to know that, because they derive a good deal of their wealth by printing more fiat money and giving us the hidden tax of inflation, thereby draining the citizens’ wealth. They always have and always will blame the producers for inflation.

Yep, and it is only going to get worse. Do ya think Jeremy and karolyn and the like have read any of your links yet DaveH?

I doubt it, Thamera. They are too busy covering their eyes and ears and chanting “na, na, na, na, na”.

While I agree, you cannot argue the bible or religion with agnostics, atheists and or progressives like the environmental fanatics. They simply dismiss it along with you. After all, “they” are omnipotent, they are all knowing and they know what is best for me and you. (note the sarcasm)

That is correct. It is the Totalitarians dream.

I agree, about the lefts sick agenda. See my post above, about the things the left wing liberal enviro green meanies do to push their agenda. Lies, lies, and more lies. They think we are as gullible as their blind followers, and think all they say is true. News to you greenies, we hear you, and we recognize you for the liars that you are. Without your pushing your agenda, you have no jobs. You have become a cancer, and you need cut out. Leave the environment to people like me who love the outdoors, while people like you greenies pound nails into trees causing humans to lose life and limb. That is pathetic of you.

Right on! and trees are a renewable resource.

And among facts mased on myth this is among the biggest ones on the planet (No pun intended). As a geologist myself, I find it most interesting that there is never mention that the first atmosphere of the earth was methane, not oxygen…Methane has a carbon base.

During the carboniferous period, CO2 in the atmosphere was much greater than today and trees were much taller…

Here is another interesting thing to consider, Has anyone taken the time to document how Al gore has become a billionaire? Further, what is his degree in? the results would amaze you. Look into who is making the money on the backs of the taxpayers and consumers and you will find your answer there.

You are so right on!! Ole barry the Illegal Socialist Idiot,, so called, pres and his Lib Dem Moron cronies are Destroying our Great country daily!! Nature has cycles, which will continue and has NOTHING to do with man!!

Augie D, thanks for the tip on the Club of Rome. I’d not heard of them.

The Club of Rome, like the Illuminati, Bilderbergs, NATO, the UN, CFR etc are all in cahoots to use their worldly influence to push for the One World Order.
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/clubofrome.htm

Myers would do well to read some actual science before he spouts off again. More extreme snow events are part of global warming,as increased atmospheric temps allow for more moisture in the air,hence more precip in some areas and less in others. At the same time as these big snows,we are watching extreme drought in the SW w/ unprecedented fires in TX…something like 400,000 acres burned.

Sure,let’s follow the advice of the pseudo-scientists Myers and Limbaugh,and keep doing exactly what we’ve been doing for the past couple hundred yrs…trash the atmosphere w/ any and all waste from our glutonous lifestyle and watch the entire earth’s eco system crumble right before our closed eyes. Good job, Myers,keep shilling for the energy industry so they can continue to reap their billions while the earth and all life suffer.

While all the earth suffers???????? Really?? I don’t suffer to any measurable degree And I’ll bet you don’t either. Incidentally, there are more trees now than there were 50yrs ago. Since trees use carbon dioxide to grow and then exude pure oxygen, your argument is full of hot air. (pun intended)

There goes Denniso again, no facts, just conjecture and the oh so tiresome rhetoric about anyone that doesn’t drool green hates the planet.

Val:

Ever notice that initially “global warming” was causing all the extreme temps and when it was debunked that now “global warmeing” is causing all the cold / snow?

Deniso says that the “globaal warming”, oops, “climate change” causes all the heavy snow. However, what do you need for snow? COLD WEATHER.

I rmember in the early – mid 60s we had tremendous amounts of snow. My dad told me about the horendous winters / snow in the mid-30s.

Follow the money. Think Albore.

Old Henry, funny you should say that. I live in an area in California where snow has been nearly non-existent. I do remember some snow in 1957 and again in 1972…haven’t had any since though. I can also remember that in the 60′s we had a lot of weather that is very similar to todays weather.

I’m all for everyone doing their part to keep the environment clean, like I’m sure most of us do, but I’m not supporting the environmental extremists or the UN’s phony green agenda’s(see Agenda 21) which was created to put our greenbacks in the “One Worlder’s” pockets.
http://green-agenda.com/agenda21.html

So I say to all of you environmental “extremists” out there…wise up and stop being played like a 5 string banjo. There is a much easier way to continue keeping the environment clean and creating alternate energy sources and it can’t be done economically through government “force”. Let the free market work utilizelise the oil resources within our boundaries…in my opinion the only way to satisfy our quest to economically create cleaner energy and a cleaner environment. I do think most of us would be more than satisfied if we could remove the “secret agendas” and the “extremists” from the equation.

Joe is ‘all for taking care of the environment’,yet he must think that it’s perfectly OK to continually pour billions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. I guess Joe doesn’t know that the atmosphere is a part of ‘the environment’. Read some real books Joe…

denisso addresser his/her comment to Joe. Who the hell are you talking to…those little demons dancing on your shoulders or the ones ravaging your brain?

Your thoughts are just another example of man’s high opinion of himself thinking that he can control / change something as large and diverse as our planet.

The climate has been chaning for the ten or 12 thousand years that the earth has been in existence as we know it today and it will continue to do so = with, or without man.

The earth is not going anywhere due to man. If it ceases to exist it will be due to God Almighty.

Watch the greenies and follow the money. Think Albore…

Henry, The earth is simply much more older than you. Try billions of years. Christian fundamentalism cannot explain the earth and sun, stars, galaxies, the entire universe as 10 to 12 thousand years. It takes light 100,000 years to cross the Milky-way. If you are seeing a star within the Milky-way, it took an average of 50,000 years to get to you. I will agree with you in part, Man has only been on earth for around 7,000 years. Man’s history is very well documented by ancient writings. He was never a stooped over, grunting animal, as some would believe.

Back to global warming: The earth cycles around the sun in one year intervals. But it wobbles around the sun like a spinning top. It takes 20,000 years to arrive at the same location point around the sun. The Egyptians figured that out while building the Giza pyramids. 20,000 cycles that put the earth in different locations around the sun every year. That would surely give slight angle changes to effect our weather. Add the more frequent forest fires that spews out tons of Co2, volcanoes (above and undersea)plus many other sources of hot house gasses. Man has only kept an accurate weather record for little more than a hundred years. No where near enough to compare with the billions of years that the earth has been around.

Yes, Al Bore has more to do with global warming. Not as an ecological warning, but an opportunity to capitalize on fear, and unscientific pandering to the masses. Check out the Club of Rome, and their agenda. And don’t bother with the official website. Look beyond!

Augie D……….If you will re-read his statement he did not say the earth was only 10-12 thousand years old he said that is how long it has existed AS WE KNOW IT TODAY.

Hello Denisso,

It sounds to me that you like most other environmentalist Greenies are are drawing all of you conclusions from emotion and believing fraudulent facts just because someone famous like Al Gore says so. Al gore has an agenda, and that is to make Al gore richer. I have a degree in Environmental Biology. What is your degree in? You should know that when one area is receiving vast amounts of rain, that another area of the world is usually suffering from droughts. Thats the way the Earths systems work. As for your increased atmospheric temps, that is completely fraudulent. As a matter of fact, the Earth is cooling. If you look at the research from the ice cores taken from antarctica you would see that the Earths cycle is going into the next ice age, not Global Warming. This whole Global Warming scam is being used by elitists to enslave you. Did you know that mankind only contributes less than 1% of greenhouse gasses. Hardly enough to even worry about. There is also something called the carbon cycle. This cycle is necessary for all forms of life on the planet. There are feedback loops on the Earth that compensates for high levels of CO2. Any fluctuations you are seeing are natural cycles. Scientists still don’t have all the facts locked down yet, but they are getting closer all the time. All this Global warming nonsense is hogwash. You should be a little more worried about the upcoming solar maximum, and the fluctuations in the Earths magnetic field that are presently occurring. Don’t get me wrong, I love the environment and want to protect it. But protecting it to the point that mankind suffers is wrong. There is a way to use the Earths’ resources responsibly and protect the environment at the same time. That’s what we should be doing instead of using fraudulent facts and fear to achieve our goals. Stop worrying so much there is new technology being discovered every day that will carry us into the future, such as cold fusion and Zero Point energy.

To say that humans contribute less then 1% of the green house gasses is technically correct as long as you include the number one green house gas – water vapor. Actually, power plants and vehicles contribute about 6% of the total CO2 emitted into our atmosphere. The major effect of increased atmospheric CO2 is an increase in the rate of plant growth. And that includes food crops. It also assumes an adequate supply of water, minerals and sun.

Rob, thanks for an explanation even these unappreciated libtards should understand. But facts aren’t their forte’; feelings are.

Wow, someone who actually believes in the global warming dribble. We may as human beings have some very slight effect on the heating and cooling of the earths atmosphere but for the most part it is purely cyclical. The global warming agenda is just another way for certain people to control the U.S. and our economy. Do you really believe this junk or are you just trying to make folks sick?

Dinniso,

If you want to understand global climate change, then you must factor in changes that occur cosmologically, not just globally. The last three years have been cooler because the great Pacific sea is cooler. The Pacific is cooler because our great nuclear reactor in the cosmos has been in a solar minimum since 2008. When the sun is in a solar minimum, the Pacific (and the earth) absorbs less energy from the sun; therefore, it cools. North American weather is dominated by the Pacific Ocean; therefore, when it is cooler, our weather is colder. Now that the sun is entering a more active phase, we can look forward to warmer winters, hotter and drier summers as well as more active hurricane (Typhoon) seasons. Changes in the weather and climate has very little to do with billions of cars burning nonrenewable fossil fuel.

You’re not talking about “actual science”, Denniso. You are talking about conjecture and Liberal talking points. I doubt you know much of anything about the “actual science” of Homogenic Global Warming. If you did, you would know that it is a hoax.
For instance, what are the Global Warming predictions based on?

This is more of a response to several of the comments rather than just to Denniso. One comment there just got to me.

An increase in the number of wildland fires and acres burned in one state isn’t much of an argument for global warming. There are only two ecosystems in the continental United States that are not either fire tolerant or fire dependent (ie fire generated). Those two ecosystems are the Sonoran Desert, and 3 temperate rain forests on the west side of the Olympic Peninsula, in Washington state. (The Quinault, the Queets-Clearwater and the Ho. Each river 20 miles apart)(and in real dry years with major wind events, they can burn). All of the other ecosystems in the continental US require periodic fire for ecosystem health.

Those ecosystems are stressed and out of whack because we have been practicing almost total fire exclusion via suppression in this country since 1910. Pretty much had to, to protect life and property. Not so much in the early years, but definitely at this point in time. In the areas where fire could be allowed to burn, politics and smoke into populated areas rapidly becomes a major issue, and suppression is usually the result. At great expense to the taxpayer.

Ecosystems build up dead dry fuels over the years. Periodic fire removes them. Ecosystems are dynamic, not static. They change. Spruce ecosystems get old and decadent at about age 200. Pine ecosystems vary. Some younger, some older. In a weakened state they get attacked by outbreaks of mountain pine beetle, spruce bark beetle, etc. Most spruce ecosystems in the US get taken out by fire on an average of every 200 year. That’s about the time they reach old age. Most Lodgepole pine systems can’t regenerate themselves without fire. (Yellowstone NP, 1988) When they get old and decadent, they get taken out by fire, and new lodgepole pine systems start up again from the ashes.

West of the Missippi River has roughly 20 year drouth cycles followed by 10-15 year wet cycles. The sun has 7 and 14 year sunspot cycles, the magnitude of which is greatest during the 14th year. Sunspots cause electrcal storms on the surface of the earth. Electrical storms cause lightning. Lightning causes fires. (at least those that aren’t caused by humans at the wrong time and place).

Learned that at fire school in 1967. Was amazed to read in the news in the mid 90′s that scientists had finally determined that the sun has 7 and 14 year sun spot cycles that cause electrical storms on the surface of the earth.

The Wenatchee NF in Washington was practically burned over in its entirety in 1970. It was an asbestos forest for the next 20 years, when it started to have large fires again. Took a while to build up enough dead and downed fuels to generate large fires again.

It wasn’t until the last 20 years that scientists identified and determined some of the effects of the El Nino and La Nina currents on the west coast of the US, which pretty much determine how much moisture makes it inland.

Are we going through global warming? Yes, of course we are. We had 4 major world glaciations in a row, and we haven’t entirely come out of the last one. We have been going through global warming, with the exception of the Little Ice Age between 1200-1850, for at least the last 10,000-12,500 years. (1,200 AD, just about the time the Anasazi moved out of the 4 corners area in the Southwest)

The Sphinx, next to the great pyramid at Cheops, was estimated to have been built 10,000-12,500 years ago. It is tremendously eroded, consistent with erosion patterns from water, not wind and sand.

Has it been warmer and drier before? In the Pleistocene, western Washington had a northern California ecosysten all the way up into the southern third of British Columbia. Remainders of that ecosystem can be seen on the East side of the Olympic Peninsula in Washington state. It’s in a rain shadow of the Olympic mountain range and gets only 13 inches of rain a year. The west side of that range gets 12-14 feet of annual rainfal.

Global warming is a fact. But it’s a natural fact. It’s a long term description of combinations of numerous long term natural cycles on this planet, (some which likely haven’t even been determined yet), that far exceed the lifetimes of of one, two or three generations of humans.

If a person has been in one place all their life and never seen “this” before, it doesn’t really mean much in the context of local change, let alone global change.

Humans aren’t the cause of global warming. Our actions contribute to speeding the current process up. There will be changes in ocean currents, wind patterns, rainfall, etc. Most likely we will eventually go through another ice age. All natural cycles over long period of time.

For what it’s worth, I went to college to become an archaeologist, and spent 34 years in wildland fire suppresssion and prescribed burning. It was much more exciting. I’m no expert on either. I doubt that there is anyone who really is. We all just have a small nitche of knowledge.

Why anyone would trust what any politician says is beyond me. They will say and do whatever it takes for them to stay elected. Fear tactics is one of their major tools of rhetoric.

Our politicians got us where we are today. And we got where we are today by not paying attention, and letting them.

Some of the rightwing deniers of climate change say we are experiencing a natural warming now,others say we are actually cooling. You can’t have it both ways and also be in denial of the science.

Some say that the climate scientists are not doing real science…I wonder what it is then? Ice cores,tree rings,ocean temps,atmospheric sampling,is that magic or astrology or religion?

Other deniers say that we only affect greenhouse gas in the atmosphere by 1%….that’s wrong,but even if it were that small an addition to the natural emissions it would still have an effect over time. If you add any appreciable greenhouse gases to what ocurrs naturally then the balance can be tipped toward a level that is detrimental to the planet.

Some say that they love the environment but we shouldn’t hurt humans in order to protect it…sounds a bit selfish of humans to me. Beyond that,we don’t have to harm humans or our lifestyle to care for the environment and planet. Why can’t we essentially live the same as always if we do something like increase gas mileage standards for autos? Does our lifestyle dictate that we be allowed to drive any size car/truck that may get only 15 mpg? How does it wreck our lives if we have more renewable energy sources? Why are you willing to subsidize oil and nuclear w/ hundreds of billions and then demand that solar and wind compete on their own?

Someone above wondered what degree I have…engineering w/ a minor in econ. Work in engineering,construction and architecture.

All of those mentioned measurements, except atmospheric measurements, are roughly approximate. And even the atmospheric measurements are flawed because at the time of the purported rising in temperatures the Russians were in the midst of economic meltdown, so they weren’t maintaining the measurement stations in Siberia. Thus a whole lot of cold temperature data went missing.
By the way, you haven’t answered my question. It’s because you just don’t have a clue, isn’t it Denniso? If you read some books about Global Warming “Science”, you would know the answer.

They are not just predictions. We are seeing actual evidence for warming and it correlates w/ higher CO2 levels in both the atmosphere and oceans. Glaciers are in fact melting at faster rates than in the recent past.

You claim a degree in science,yet you think most of the climate scientists around the world are involved in a hoax,and why would they be supporting a hoax after all these yrs? You think it’s for money and control,which is absurd and doesn’t show much respect for thousands of scientists….maybe the problem is that you never worked in science so you don’t understand that the vast majority of scientists work for the love of it and not for piles of money. Your theory would be closer to truth if you were talking about bankers,wall street,big industry,oil companies,Donald Trump,Limbaugh and almost all other professions…not scientists.

Study your history denniso. Temperatures are cyclical. We are not warming. Do not believe Al Gore

blackmark48 – excellent post. Been reading about the need/requirement for the fires for decades and decades now. All of your post was great info.

Of course fire is part of the natural systems…any person who can think at all knows that,but when we get unprecedented fires,heat and drought it can’t just be written off as ‘normal’.

Even if all we were doing is ‘speeding up the current warming process’,that’s hardly benign. Humans don’t live and exist in geologic time. If we speed up something like warming so that it affects us in the short term,not to mention the living eco systems,we and our economic system will have a very hard and expensive time trying to deal w/ it. If a warming or cooling cycle takes thousands of yrs to happen,that’s manageable,as opposed to major changes ocurring in 20 or 30 yrs…much more difficult and dislocating to us and all earthly systems. That’s what happened to the dinosaurs,too sudden a change.

It is explanations and life experience such as this that keeps me interested in reading these articles. Thanks.

If you mean me,then you’re welcome.

Denniso-Why did the word narcissist pop into my head as soon as I read, “If you mean me,then you’re welcome.”

You don’t understand when someone is being facetious? This warlord guy is just another rightwing kook who has the need to use juvenile name calling.

To listen to some of the opponents of CO2 gases, or greenhouse gases is like listening to the guy on this TV ad marketing a bracelet that claims to “Create Balance in Your Daily Activities”! How can educated individuals actually buy into this sham? To create a society that is less capitalist and more socialist requires taking a coomodity necessary, consumed, and has significant profitable potential in a free market society. Environmentalists have found the one important commodity used world wide, is in continual high demand, and creates wealth for large corporations in the modern era. Obviously oil as well as many other natural resources used to create energy was deemed the perfect target! In 1972 the UN began a long term study of how to better “serve” the global community. Maurice Strong, a successful Canadian investor in petroleum based commodities, was hired to take on a “study of the specific areas globally which were inhibitors of the UN’s capability to control” future difficulties. The study used “Population Growth and Poverty” as its foundation. As a result this study evolved into what became “The Kyoto Protocol”, which served to limit “Greenhouse Gases”!
Al Gore has made a fortune telling people L.A. and Manhattan would be under water from all the “Glacier Meltings” from Global Warming, yet he just recently purchased a multi-million dollar mansion right on the coastal areas he denegrated. Obama served as the top dog of the Chicago based CCCI, a Climate control entity seeking legislation selling industry allowances for certain amounts of carbon gases, also known as “Cap & Trade”! The entire scam has Money at its core along with more and more Government Control and the decrease and eventual elimination of a Free Market Society!
God controls climate, The United States of America is a Constitutional Republic built upon Divine Providence! Obama was allowed this one term as President in order to awaken
the American people. The 2009 Executive Order issued by Barack Obama, written by Cass Susstein, was created for environmental control for the purpose of imposing a more socialist agenda without, necessarily, violating our constitution! Remember all the birds that kept dying by the thousands a few months ago? The reason: Gigantic, extremely sharp blades on Windmills!
Try using a little common sense and study some material on metereological science, human nature and greed, survival of the fittest through territorial manipulation, and search the web for info on Maurice Strong, The Secret Jekyl Island Summits during Wilson’s Presidency, and talk to Seniors over 60! Stop being so gullible! For some thought, how did a man overseeing three wars receive The Nobel Peace Prize? RMcDinGa

‘God controls the climate’? That’s such a nice and tidy belief to hold onto,w/ of course no evidence at all,so you don’t have to be concerned about any aspects of the planet’s health do you. For that matter,why would you and people like you be concerned about anything at all,since I guess your God controls essentially everything. Why worry about the debt,or who’s president,or war and peace? Your all powerful God is in control of everything so it is all going according to his plan,isn’t it?

I imagine that most climate change deniers are believers like you,and so it would follow that they also have no worry because God’s in control…why don’t most of them come right out and say it? Afraid of looking like wackos?

Denniso-Why worry about the debt,or who’s president,or war and peace? Your all powerful God is in control of everything so it is all going according to his plan,isn’t it? These are man made catastrophes, not natural.

So the Christian god only controls ‘natural’ events? Anything connected to man is out of his purview?? Some all powerful god you’ve got there…

The hardest thing for all LIBERAL SOCIALIST to do in life, is to admit they were WRONG about anything!..one more thing is that you BIG AL!????…

Denniso, See the comments below about you…They are not smart enough to connect the dots…Thats what they have Lumbauh to do it for them.

I hope these half wits (Ditto Heads) forget to vote!!

Got me there vigilant. However if im not mistaken we also pump or release sulfur as well. As to carbon amounts yes your right. I just figure we have some control and since the levels appear to be going up again we should try to do something about it.

All the more reason to change over to clean and safe energy. The new capitalist of the future will be those who change over to the clean energy economy.

“Jeremy, it has been proven, and even admitted to by the green house gas nazi’s, that the majority of green house gases emitted, are caused by the evaporation of the oceans.”

I’m afraid I’ll have to challenge that. Evaporation of water, salt or otherwise, creates one thing: water vaper, and little of anything else. It’s the principle of distillation.

Evaporation/distillation does not produce methane, CO2, or airborne particulates.

“To conquer, first divide.”

The ocean’s, are a major CO2 absorber, a natural cycle driven by
currents……absorbing at the polls, releasing at the equator.
The warmer the ocean’s become, the less ability they have to absorb
the excess……ocean temps are a major indicator of warming, and
climate change.

You all can continue to deny the science all you want….and even if
we ceased all man made CO2 emissions TODAY, climate change is locked
in for the next twenty to thirty years……and since we are not going to do this…….your future will be quite interesting indeed.

There was a gentleman named Thomas Malthus, who offered a prediction
regarding the world’s population and the planet’s ability to sustain it…….of course when he did so, the population was relatively
small, less than 1 billion …..we are now approaching 7 billion, or
have exceeded it.

Malthus will be proved right, and so will climate change, with the
single exception that the latter, will happen far more quickly, and
there is a nasty little fact that is NOT mentioned regarding, CO2
and that is it’s percentage of the atmosphere. When it hits .006 the effects are irreversible: game over.

Of course, most of us will be dead by then, but your great grand chidren won’t be…..

Given the mind set of most of the people who frequent this site, as
well as the current state of our government and the corrupt nature
of the political machine…….as well as the general idea that this
is all being controlled by an elite cabal, what should concern you
is the “solution” to the “reality”, of climate change and Malthusian
Theory, whose effects are already being felt.

You see, there is a solution…..but I doubt it is one that most of
the world’s inhabitants would favor, because it wouldn’t include them,
and as the number creeps closer to .006, those who have the means
to affect it, will certainly consider doing so.

P.S. There are “other green house gases”, which are also in play,
among these, methane…….which will come into play……and
whose effects are far stronger, than CO2……the only bright side here is that, these effects will naturally disapate, in 20 years.

“Do not ask for whom the bell tolls……….”

Hey vigilant,
Water vapor is considered a greenhouse gas. As a matter of fact, it constitutes the largest portion of the greenhouse gasses. Do a little research will ya.

Hey Bob,

Jeremy’s statement was “the majority of green house gases emitted…” Do you, in your lack of reading comprehension, overlook the letter “s” when it indicates a plural noun?

ONE gas, water vapor, is created. While indeed a greenhouse gas, it is THE gas that keeps this earth a liveable place for human beings.

Had you an ounce of sense, you’d understand that the envirowackos aren’t interested in the level of water vapor in the atmosphere, as water vapor levels are not affected by human activity.

Have a little common sense will ya.

Vigilant,
He said “the majority of green house gases”. How else would he say it to be more correct? Majority implies more than one. To say the majority of greenhouse gas would not be proper english. I kind of suspect you are grasping for straws. Suck it up. It was a misguided attack in the first place.

Vigilant,
I’m afraid you are wrong there. He said the “majority of greenhouse gases”. Water vapor is the majority of the Greenhouse Gases by far. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas#Greenhouse_effects_in_Earth.27s_atmosphere

DaveH says, “I’m afraid you are wrong there. He said the “majority of greenhouse gases”. Water vapor is the majority of the Greenhouse Gases by far.”

Dave, it’s a matter of English. The word “majority” in common usage is never used to describe a relative volume of material. Majority applies to discrete numbers. The correct usage was shown by Bob when he said, “it constitutes the largest portion of the greenhouse gases.

My irritation with Bob was simply that he was chasing a red herring. Water vapor is not only innocuous, we wouldn’t survive without it.

It was Beberoni who made the statement, Vigilant. And I do have a very good grasp of English. A majority is the subset of the total number of objects in a set whose numbers are greater than the subset of remaining objects in the set.
What Beberoni said does seem not quite right, but then the English language is not perfect. My main point was that it was a trivial pursuit on your part to correct him. For him to have been more precise would have involved much more verbage.

DaveH,

Point taken, old friend. I’m duly chastised. (:-)

I tend to get anal about English, as my father often told me to use precision in communicating. Too often a point is missed because someone reads something into, or infers something not intended, in the words we speak and write.

Just so you know, I like both of you.

I have seen it reported over and over, that the majority of green house gases are cause by ocean evaporations. I have even seen reports where they brought this to the greenies, and they said so also, so I dont know what to tell you.

Thank you for a good thought out post. I try not to label all as one, but sometimes I do, when I see so many on the left, just tell out and out lies to forward their agenda. Many of Al Gore’s so called scientists have now stated that they basically faked all their so called evidence. And from the reports Ive seen and read from actual geological scientists, they say just the opposite of what Im seeing environmentalists show on the history channel and other networks. They are saying that the ice caps are growing bigger than ever, and that they are so large that pieces of them break off over time because they cant carry their own weight, and that its a natural thing. They have also said, and proven more than once, that these “melting” videos the green meanies keep showing, are places in the spring that naturally melt each year, but the left presents it as global warming melting the polar ice caps, and the video’s they show are from somewhere else. I believe, and history proves it to be correct, that temperatures are cylclical, always going up and down, and have since forever. I know here in Indiana, its been cold all spring so far, where as two or three years ago, we didnt even have a spring, it went straight from winter to 85 degrees in a week or two, and it was a hot summer. But when I look at years gone past, I see warm years, and I see colder years, and in all actuality, what Ive seen and what Ive heard from these geological scientists, is that the earth has actually cooled since the 70′s. And when youve got guys like Al Gore, in bed with GE and a few others, who stood to make billions of dollars if they got everyone scared enough and hyped up enough to buy into what they were selling, well then youve got someone pushing an agenda, and not the truth. But as I compare temperatures these last 10 years, with the 10 previous, and the 10 before that, and the 10 before that, I see nothing at all out of the obvious, to indicate in the least, anything at all resembling global warming. So I find that those who buy into it, are blindly led by TV and newspapers, who are directly influenced by the left wing liberals in bed with the environmentalists, and I dont fall un-educatedly for things like that, or for that matter, for a guy who buys millions of dollars of add’s yelling change, change, change. I dont get swayed by what I read or see on TV. I choose to look into things, and explore all avenues before I make a decision, not blindly following someone because “they said so”. And I love the environment. I am an avid hiker and fisherman. I take care of the outdoors. I do not litter, and I pick up crap others throw on the ground when Im out and put it into its proper place. I drive a fuel efficient vehicle, and put a 97 percent efficient furnace and AC unit in my home. I love the outdoors, and do what I can to protect it. Put I dont believe in driving a spike into a tree that a logger is cutting down, making the chain come off and cut his arm off. That logic is insanity. I dont burn down SUV dealerships because they sell cars that pollute, yet the burning down of these released more pollutants into the atmosphere than these vehicles could have in their lifetime. These left wing liberal enviro’s are insane, and do stupid things like this, in an attempt to further their agenda, and all it does is make it so no one will take them serious, because its lying and cheating when they do this, and it is putting their foot in their mouth. You want to help green meanies, hike the trails I hike, and pick up the trash along the way. Be productive, and quit pushing your agenda at all costs. Its all wrong. I love the outdoors, and I dont damage it, I enjoy it and take care of it. And truthfully, I see no evidence of global warming. I see the lying video’s they produce, and a spring time natural melt is not the ice caps melting. Sorry, Im not falling for that.

Floyd, Stick to something simple like checkers.

Better yet Floyd,Just get your Jack-bootsTM on and goose step out to your Chevy VoltTM,glide on over to the global marketTM and scan you some Soylent Green TeaTM,the chosen drink of professional progressivesTM.A fter all…green is the new red.See you there citizen!

Inconvienient fact. Solar system, Mars etc., experiencing warming trends due to sunspot cycle. Volcanism contributes more co2 than ALL combined. Cathalates, frozen methane in far north has enough energy to power civilization megayears; or kill it if released suddenly. One meteor away from global death. The whole Green thing is about power and control, and making money. If ALL industry was on the Moon,and the earth a virtual park, the weather would still be changing. If we spent our money on Dome homes (super insulated) the twister would blow over them and not blow them away. Shelter in place against terror of bio attack, nature,energy conservation, less trees used for lumber etc. Put roofers out of work wouldn’t it. So much for logic.

Here is a little fact that should comfort some of you. Between 85% to 90% of Earth’s oxygen comes from the Phytoplankton in the ocean. If you want to keep breathing protect the Oceans.

I agree, the sun is the main controlling factor of our weather, not man.

No conservative. Im simply saying when carbon goes into the atmosphere it becomes a green house gas. Yes increased heating can produce more but we produce it as well. Lets at least try and control what we can control-ourselves and the amount we put out.

NC1 My point in refering to my parents and grandparents is that they describe to me in detail the deplorable condition of our air not 40 years ago. They describe smog every day and having a hard time being outside from the lack of breathable air. And this is in the same area we live now. It seems since then laws have been passed to help regulate pollution and clean up the air so to speak. I figure if its possible to do that its possible to have a great effect on the enviornment good or bad.

Poisonous pollutants were a very real issue, Jeremy. You’re mixing apples and oranges. Carbon Dioxide is not a poisonous gas except in much higher than normal concentrations. Normal air contains about .04%. It doesn’t start causing problems until it reaches close to 1%. Note that level is 25 times the concentration in normal air.

Dave my views are just as valid and genuine as yours. My views are based on honest belief in what I say. Perhaps I am “clueless” as you put it in that I have heard many arguments for and against global warming and have formed my opinions accordingly. I believe the basic sciene of carbon becoming greenhouse gas is a fact recognized by anyone regardless of their beliefs. And I believe it a fact that man pumps much carbon into the atmosphere. Finally I believe it a fact that fossil fuels are finite and that eventually we will have no choice but to switch to some other form. I figure do it quick and get it over with as one would respond to an unwanted doctors or dental appointment. As to the ozone hole. It is in the past and is healing. I used it as an example of mans ability to do damage to the overall enviornment but to do something to repair the damage. The hole wasen’t a lie and it wasn’t big government propoganda. With respect Dave it may be either in your eyes im a liar or im an idiot or im crazy. I assure you Dave I am not a liar. I believe what I believe based on many arguments with many people who both agree and disagree with me. I have formed my opinions based on that. I listen to opposing arguments and I honestly try to recgnize something I did not or do not know when its presented too me. But I still believe what I believe and like all people there is a certain point where one still holds on to what they believe. I still try to be as open minded as possible and perhaps if we met face to face and argued it would be easier to admit when I cant counter something. But for now I believe what I say. I am not spreading propoganda. I am saying what I personally believe. Think it what you will.

Jeremy, it is obvious that you are only listening to one side of the “issue”. I heard a scientist/climate expert on the radio a few weeks ago saying that global warming is a hoax. The earth is covered with trees and plants that clean the air all the time; much like the ocean is full of plants and animals that continuously clean the water. You can keep the air clean in your home with live house plants. This scientist said without plant life, the air and water would be a problem, but it is all about balance in the eco system and always has been.

I believe the earth is divinely created, and as such, has a built in cleaning system.

Remember, your mind is like a parachute. It works best when opened.

I can respect that Carlucci. My only concern is that there is alot of deforestation happening. That could upset the balance. I dont feel the worst case senario of global warming leading to floods and ice ages or the devestation of our planet are valid. However I do believe man is capable of affecting whats around him. Bear in mind we can pollute the ocean and cut down trees. An open is a wonderous thing and I try to have it as often as possible. I do listen to people of different views and at times I have changed my views accordingly.

There are more trees now in our country than ever before, Jeremy, thanks to homeowners and others planting trees where they didn’t exist before.
Did you know that a Greenhouse Gas that is as prevalent as Carbon Dioxide is Methane? Did you know that trees give off Methane?

Jeremy, in all fairness, you have a point about the de-forestation of the rain forests. I find that very worrisome, too, mostly because it upsets the eco system and habitats of all the wonderful animals that live in those forests.

Maybe, Carlucci, but that is Brazil’s business, not ours.

Carlucci – Not to mention all the as yet undiscovered plants that could lead to curing diseases. And to Dave – It IS our problem. It effects the whole world.

Did Jeremy not say that he investigates both sides and then comes up with his own belief? Why does everybody think that investigating both sides would mean only coming up with the answer YOU believe to be true?

DaveH – I still have to agree with Jeremy about the deforestation of the world’s rainforests. Karolyn made an excellent point about the plants and herbs that can heal that grow only in the rainforests all over the world Graviola is just one of those healing plants that comes from a tree found only in the Brazilian rainforest. It put a dear friend of mine in remission from pancreatic cancer, which is usually a quick killing cancer.

A much greater danger to the “whole world”, Karolyn, is you Liberals who are hell-bent on impoverishing us all.
If there are indeed herbs that are going to save mankind, you can bet Free Marketeers will be busily propagating them for profit. What we are talking about is not saving the World, but messing with other countries’ choices.
And, Carlucci, I am surprised that you would want to be part and parcel of that.

DaveH “part and parcel” of what? I am not following you.

Minding other peoples’ business. In this case a country full of other peoples’ business.
If we want to encourage them to save their rain forests by education or payments of some sort which they can voluntarily accept, that is fine. But I don’t think that is what Karolyn is talking about (voluntary). And, by “we”, I mean voluntary donors, not those who are forced to donate through their taxes.
Freedom is not qualified by the phrase “unless somebody wants something from you”.

Dave, You are so wrong about me it isn’t even funny. It doesn’t matter what I say; you will misconstrue it to fit your own agenda.

I would be happy to be wrong about you, Karolyn, but from my point of view, you are wrong about yourself.

“To conquer, first divide.”

Ah, yes….by all means, be sure to listen to the other side! Such wisdom seems common sensical until one attempts to put it into practice, regarding such things as say, heliocentrism……which has another side……should we consider it?

There is another side to the Constitution, those who listened, helped
bring into existance, the best government money can buy, using funny
money at that!

One of the more interesting aspects of alternative green technologies,
before they became a part of the “climate change” debate…..is that
they are most effective and efficient when applied at the point of
need…….energy grids are inefficient by definition, and the farther
the end user is, from the source, the more vulnerable they become.

Given the doom and gloom, the end is nigher mind set, and the annie get your gun, and heirloom seeds ready crowd that seems prevalent here, the resistance to these technologies, seems somewhat self contradictory, given that it is these technolgies, that can be applied, locally…..to disempower, the centralised elites that are
controlling your existance………

This is also true for government……since it tends to be much more
responsible when it’s constituency is next door, than thousands of
miles away…….

In 1877, local militia’s refuse to intervene in the railroad strikes
that were taking place……because they would be firing on their
neighbor’s…….federal troops had no such problem.

“The lesson of history, is that we have learned NOTHING from history.”

But by all means, be sure to listen to the “other side”, because
we know they both can’t be right……unfortunately, for the
divided….they both can be WRONG!

“Do not ask for whom the bell tolls……..”

Exactly, Jeremy, your views are based on belief. Mine are based on extensive reading, thinking, facts, and logic.

As are mine Dave

Sure, Jeremy, whatever you say.
Did you read the links I posted? You could read the book John Myers suggested. Or you could read any of many that Christopher Horner has written.
Frankly, I would be embarrassed to post comments if I was as lacking in knowledge as you are.

Yes Dave I did read them. I admit to not knowing certain things such as the various proposals to counter CFCS. However I have not read the book. That being said I wouldn’t make an argument if I wasn’t willing or able to fight for it or if I didn’t believe it.

And, Jeremy, I have seen little in your comments but conjecture and the regurgitation of Liberal talking points. Sorry, but those do not pass as facts or logic.

By the way, Jeremy, I’ve been thinking and studying outside the Liberal box for well over forty years now. Are you even that old?

Well, from what I understand, the citizenry of those countries that are lucky enough to have rainforests want to preserve them because they contain animal and plant life that is found nowhere else in the world but there. Unfortunately the greedy government officials could give a rat’s patootie about that when they can pocket tons of money for “development”, and screw the citizenry, animals, and plants.

About ten years ago Sting was on a campaign to save the rainforests and I believe he received tons of donations to do that very thing. I remember sending a donation for the cause.

No Dave I am much younger than 40 years old. With respect I am still licensed to have an opinion and a belief system. And please know I do have some conservative views, not just liberal ones.

The ozone hole wasn’t a lie, but man’s effect on the ozone hole was a lie.
Use your brain, Jeremy. Chlorofluorocarbons are freely diffusing gases, as is ozone. Are you aware that ozone is a pollutant that many cities fight? If Freon (CFC) broke down the ozone, do you think it would just skip over the surface ozone? Do you think the surface ozone wouldn’t just diffuse freely to the (wait for it) Ozone Layer?
Jeremy, Liberals prey on the idealistic, easily molded minds of young people. Why don’t you break the mold, and do some thinking for yourself? Read this (Of course you won’t):
http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv5n2/v5n2-5.pdf

I did read it Dave. Cost benifit risks versus health risks. The issue I have is for me health is most important. The basic sciene of CFC breakdown and destruction is discussed and is not denied. For me I point out the vast production of CFCS by man. If the science of CFC breakdown and mans vast production of CFCS is not denied I dont see how it is a lie that man helped create the hole in the ozone.

You can’t see? More like you don’t want to see.

Jeremy says “Dave my views are just as valid and genuine as yours”.

What’s the difference between what I know and what Jeremy knows?
It’s a Big one. I am not trying to force my views on Jeremy. He and his Liberal cohorts are trying to force their views on the rest of us through Big Government.

Can you imagine even remotely, Jeremy, what it would be like if you were indeed more knowledgeable than I am, and I was trying to force myself on you through Big Government? If you can, then you will understand my frustration with people like yourself.

Dave im not trying to force my views. Im trying to say my views and support them as best I can. If the people choose not to elect people who share my views or those in power choose not to support ideas or proposals that reflect my views there is nothing I can or would even try to do about it. All I am doing is saying what I think. And I dont consider myself more knowledgeable than you. I am just saying that I am as genuine in my belief as you. I am honest in what I say I believe just as you are.

You just don’t get the whole voting thing, do you Jeremy? Government is force. When you vote for a politician who will implement your desired policies, you are voting to force those policies on other people. It’s no different than if you were in a small gang forcing your way on other individuals, it’s just a much larger gang.
If you want to save the animals, get together with like-minded people and buy some land to set aside a preserve. That’s the voluntary, peaceable way to do things. If you want to save the environment, then ride your bike to work, grow a tree, volunteer to clean up. But don’t force the rest of us to engage in your pet agendas using Government as your bully boys.

But Dave if the majority of the people support what I support then thats democracy. If what I want has popular support I feel thats grounds for acting on it. If we can get more people to vote and if the majority of those who do vote for the candidate or the proposal that I like then I am happy. I dont want force. If people vote its their buisness. If they dont vote well I cant change them and its their right to do so. And please know they can oppose a plan if it does get the majority vote. Majority tyrannizing the minority is just as bad as minority tyrannizing the majority.

Like I said, you just don’t get it.

Jeremy – I applaud you for being on this site and reading other view points. It shows that you are yearning to learn and that you are not convinced of everything you have been taught. By the way, the US is a Republic, not a democracy. Democracy is mob rule. We can start there for lesson 1.

Here is some backup for my statement about Dupont:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorofluorocarbon#Regulation_and_DuPont

Crony Capitalism at its finest. How many of you had to change your air conditioning systems (as I did) to accomodate the new refrigerent gases? You gotta love those Liberals. NOT!

I remember that, they were calling for an ice age by the year 2000! By the way, what caused the ice ages and environmental catastrophes prior to industrial age? The environmentalist’s never tackle that question!

DaveH: I have a children’s book that I was given back in 1978 about pollution and in this book it predicted that well before now the earth would be nothing but a toxic wasteland because of us terrible humans LMAO. I am so glad I kept that book!

I remember a TIME magazine cover from about 1978 that said the earth was getting COLDER and the earth would be covered in ice in 100 years.

It’s all junk science. I cannot believe that anyone would pay attention to, much less believe what a politician says. It has been revealed that other so called “experts” who support this theory are not experts or scientists at all.

You can bet that Al Gore and his cronies like B.O. and the rest of the federal mafia stand to get some kind of sweetheart deal out of this – lecturing us, yet all the while flying in their private polluting jets, SUVs, and limosines.

Its all about the almighty dollar. Whoever can concoct the lie that they can get the media to hype and the government to force on people, then they collect billions. Al Gore just tried this, and almost made it. First they cry about an ice age coming. Now they cry global warming. Then they make stupid statements like its getting warmer and melting the polar ice caps, and by getting warmer its going to make it colder. What? Do they even listen to what they are saying. Around here, our local mayor said he would raise taxes, he would lower them. So he gets elected, first thing he does is raise property taxes, and says that is part of his plan to lower taxes. Are you kidding me? Do they all thing we are all as dumb as their blind sheeple? Needless to say, myself and a couple thousand now and growing, have moved out of that county, because were not paying their exhorbitant property taxes. Unbelievable.

Amen…and you might add a money maker!

Average-I like that! I think I will put that on my wall of sayings in the bathroom. It is a neat wall with framed sayings printed backwards. When you are done with your busness, you can read them in the mirror while you wash your hands. I can’t tell you how many people tell me they can’t read them because they are backwards. My reply is to tell them to go back and wash their hands. I can’t believe in this day and age that that many people do not wash their hands.

Jovi you are truly clueless about China just for starters. Yes, they have a lot of great technology but they also have a lot of people that LOVE their cars! I know people that work and live there.

Speaking of Propagandists.
Maybe if you repeat your bull often enough, Jovianus, people will believe you. But not if I can help it.
Jovianus says “it’s not about ‘global warming’ anyore. That’s proven to exist”. Yes, Jovianus, Global Warming has existed. So has Global Cooling, and Climate Change. The issue is whether man has a significant effect on any of those. That has not been “proven” in any stretch of the imagination. What has been “proven” is that Liberals are willing to tell any lies they can muster to promote their agenda.

What gets me is that Liberals (probably yourself, but I can’t remember offhand) are so quick to damn the rich people, yet you are so blindered that you can’t see this is all about rich people and other leaders making money and taking power at the main street citizens’ expense. Or is it that you don’t want to see because you are one of the takers?

DaveH,
You have a better chance of convincing a turd that it is a goldfish in a bowl than you do of convincing Jovial Anus that his (or her) thought processes may in fact be flawed.

There is none so blind as those who will not see.

Average Joe, people like joy anus are not here to be convinced, they are here to convince us! I would suggest not responding to them.

My point exactly……Which is why I responded to DaveH…and didn’t waste my time on Happy Azz….there is no fixing stupid…so, I didn’t try.

Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity…and I’m not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein

Jovi, you’re nothing more than annoying with your socialist rants! Get it through your head, your work is done here…you’re a failure!
Go back to the Kos or HuffPost where you can be recieved with open arms and like minds.

What proof have you that Obama is a Communist? You have none, zero, zip, nil!

Did he tell us that he smoked? Did he tell us that he was anti-gun? Did he tell us that he was going to get us out of the wars? Oh, wait, he did tell us that.
What do you think he’s going to do? Tell us he’s a Marxist and expect to get elected? Intelligent people will judge him by his actions, not by his words:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2289

You are so correct. I once knew a man who had a wise plaque in his office. It said “What a man says in words, is what he wants you to think he is. What he does in his actions, is who he really is.” And it is true as can be.

the stated desire to redistribute wealth

Pimer’s conclusions are as fraudulent as anything out there!

Donald,
A legend in your own mind?

The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance – it is the illusion of knowledge.
Daniel J. Boorstin

Ethanol subsidies began under Bush,Obama is just continuing the policy. It’s a virtual joke,true,but you can’t blame Obama for it.

Solar and wind can already do much more than they are if we would subsidize them as much as we do conventional sources and nuclear. Wind and solar have almost no major negative issues associated,unlike every other energy source.