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“Unintentional” Co-Conspirators

January 11, 2011 by  

“Unintentional” Co-Conspirators

I wanted to discuss how years of inflammatory, often violent, rhetoric from the far Left walked us all right up to the moment in Tucson where liberal hate led to liberal violence in one horrific afternoon. I wanted to point out how the incessant drumbeat of rage from Democrat Party outlets like MSNBC and Daily Kos was laying a welding torch to the gunpowder of Leftist anger. I wanted to expound on the fact that the endless “Worst person in the world” ranting from MSNBC’s Zen master of hate Keith Olbermann, with the defamatory efforts of his “mini-me,” the appallingly angry Rachel Maddow, would ultimately drive one of their brainless acolytes to the edge of insanity.

But none of that really matters. Today, a husband sits anxiously next to his wife’s hospital bed. Today, a family is preparing to bury their husband and father. Children have to say goodbye to parents. Parents have to say goodbye to children.

Nonetheless, while the Democrat Party urges its supplicant media to find a way to pin the murder of six people on Sarah Palin, the Tea Party and the GOP by proxy; the facts reveal a vastly different picture. It’s a picture of the ultimate expression of Leftist rage, fanned by monsters like Markos Moulitsas, raging idiots like Olbermann, violent union thugs from the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), and possibly the anti-semitic roaring of characters like former President Jimmy Carter:

While Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) was clinging to life, Democrat Party shill Paul Krugman showed up on television to offer:

“..violent acts are what happen when you create a climate of hate. And it’s long past time for the GOP’s leaders to take a stand against the hate-mongers.”

I’ll presume that Krugman didn’t mean statements like this one:

“If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard…”

Or this one:

“I’m itching for a fight.”

Or this one:

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun…”

All of the preceding statements were made by homicidal terrorist William Ayers’
friend, Barack Obama, since he won the Presidential election of 2008.

Nonetheless, forget all of it. Forget Olbermann’s lunatic yammering on
the Democrats’ “news” channel, MSNBC. Set aside Daily
Kos
and their violent vitriol:

Daily Kos

Peruse that inset, then tell me again how appalling Sarah Palin’s ads
are. Daily Kos also scrubbed a “diary” by an acolyte who
calls himself “Boy Blue” which made repeated references to a Congresswoman
being “dead.” Make sure you keep in mind Daily Kos owner
Moulitsas’ endorsement of Islamofascist terrorism when you do.

Shuffle the SEIU’s assaults on Obamacare opponents to the back of your
mind. Lock away your images of the NAACP standing up for cop killers like Troy
Davis. And consider this:

Jared Lee Loughner appears to be Unabomber-crazy. While the Democrat Party trots
out the big media and blogosphere guns to pin the Tucson tragedy on conservatism,
their macabre effort to profit from human suffering and death rings as hollow
as an Ed Schultz “voter fraud is ok when it benefits the Democrat Party”
monologue.

The Left has developed a cottage industry built on hatred. And while the nation
united in mourning the loss of the victims of Loughner’s murderous rage, they
left the door to their asylum wide open.

But amidst the cacophony of liberal rage, I’ll simply say:

Good night, sweet Christina Green. You deserved better.

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • Raggs

    The democraps see this as an open door to push more gun control.
    Not to mention further restrictions on free speach.

    I figure the craps create a crisis to push an agenda and that is all they see… They do not see the poor people that this tragedy affected intsead they have dreams of a grand nazi state.

  • bargeman

    Do all of you realize the JARED LEE LOUGHNER is a result of our liberal socialist education system. From K-1 throught Collage. It is the worse in our higfher education schools where socialist, comminst, murders,bombers.menally retarded teachers tell your children what is right.It is going to get worse in this deranged and depraved country.

    • eddie47d

      Then all his previous teachers should be interviewed to find out how he fit into school and how he adapted to THEIR education system. You could be correct or 100% wrong and until that fact is known then you are only blowing smoke.

  • http://(n/a) Marv

    As far as the GRAMMER excuse attributed to the Tucson Killer, there IS HISTORIC PROOF to his “ranting” : Anyone remember none other than BILL CLINTON litterally STUMPING CONGRESS with his INFAMOUS statament about sex & the simple word ” I-S ” : It went something like this ; It all depends on the proper defination : What ever the defination of the WORD IS , IS ??? Anyone remember this LEGAL GRAMMER STUNT ???

    Maybe the Tucson Killer IS RIGHT ! The GOVERNMENT is messing with GRAMMER !

    ///MRB

  • Don

    “You have to admit that we must also question the intelligence and reasoning behind allowing people to carry unregistered concealed weapons. At political rallies, in bars and now in schools! I guess Columbine and Virginia Tech were not enough yet.”

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but all but two staes require a concealed carry permit to carry a weapon. What does registering the weapon itself do??? Murder is illegal. Attempted murder is illegal. A person who is insane does not give a hoot whether he is doing something illegal. If one sane person or more…had been legally carrying a weapon at Virginia Tech, I bet we would have more people alive from that tragedy as well!!! Think about it this way….unless there is some sort of supe laser beam that shoots down from the heavens wiping out all guns at once and forevermore…..If you take guns from the people that abide the laws….only the criminals (and insane) will have and use them. It’s unfortunate that some of these nuts slip through the cracks and are able to purchase a weapon legally. But you cant catch them all in a nation of so many… anymore than you can expect a laser beam to erase all guns from the planet!!

  • BABUSHSKA

    This tragedy in Tucson should serve as a wake-up call to parents, school administrators, and all others in authority who come in contact
    with an individual who appears to have serious mental health issues. It is simply not enough anymore for a college, a company, or even the military, (ie. Fort Hood shootings) to continue to overlook someone with apparent mental illness, or tell an individual that they are barred from returning until they receive a mental health evaluation, and then wash their hands of him. There must be follow-up by those in authority to ensure that these types of people receive the help they need, if in the very least, to ultimately protect society. Why weren’t Loughren’s parents contacted after the college barred him from returning? Our societal responsibility to each other has totally broken down. And yet, are we not to be our brother’s keeper? The blame for this tragedy belongs on each one of us who look the other way, who refuse to get involved, who hide under the cloak of political correctness, or fear being intrusive.

  • Patriot

    How come the Lame Media did not come out as strong against the Fort Food massacre and the attempted Time Square bombing? Was it maybe because they were Muslim’s? These are sometimes the consequences of living in a semi-free society; there are nuts out there and this can happen to any of us at anytime! I look forward to a time when I can learn and be proud of our media, sadly this is not the time!

    • Curtis

      I disagree. I think Fox News was very vocal about Fort Hood and their biggest stock holder (outside the Murdoch Family) is a muslim.

  • JACKIE PHILLIPS

    oKAY!!! I am not a O”Bama fan and I am pro constitution, but bringing politics into this event is deplorable. I do not care who did it first (think CNN did) but stop. A nut killed 6 people,including a 9 year old, give the family sympathy and pray for the survivors. There is no political currency to be gained by politicizing this. THIS IS PATHETC!!!.

    • JUKEBOX

      The sheriff started it within an hour of the incident, when he gave his “OPINION” and not the facts.

  • Mick

    Mick says:
    January 11, 2011 at 8:25 am
    JIM says:
    January 11, 2011 at 7:12 am
    HOW ABOUT ALL THOSE FAR RIGHT PEOPLE SPEWING THE HATE AND VIOLANCE. YOU KNOW RUSH , GLEN BECK,HANNITY, AND MOST OF THE GOP. IT IS AMAZING HOW THE REPUBLICANS CAN START SOMETHING AND THEN TRY TO BLAME THE DEMOCRATS. THEY ARE SUCH HIPOCRITS
    ********************
    JIM……It looks to me that the hypocrisy lies in your camp.
    You say that the Republicans start something and try to blame the democrats,how many decades has the left continuously held protests marches while the right sat on the side line doing nothing.You don’t like what’s happening right now because other folks finally had enough of the left crap and are beginning to rebel against you to save our country.
    You can bet that if there was anything to discredit our country the left were the first involved. race, pay, off the walls rights designed to benefit criminals and the list go on and on,,,,,,,,,
    What happened in Tucson has nothing to do with any party or other person than the killer, as for the hate , just look at your post and comments made by Olbermann, Krugman, the Tucson sheriff and the stupid media that has been plaguing our air waves for decades, talk about hating the people who think differently, if you libs can’t convince others to veer toward your mind set you slander them in order to destroy them..
    The way I see it, the left has pushed the envelope for too long, I don’t hate people on the left but I sure don’t want anything to do with them or their agenda.
    I see a snake, I don’t hurt it, I just walk away from it………….

  • Bob

    I wonder where a Moslem who had a page with 23 bulls eyes on it like Ms. Palin did would be sitting now…..

    • JUKEBOX

      Probably getting a recess appointment from Obama!

  • Eric Bischoff

    Cartoon caption
    “Clueless hypocritical Ben throws more gas onto the fire.”

    Overheated political rhetoric. Hate spewing hypocritical religious zealots, uneducated ignorant masses, absent parenting, self serving manipulating media, massive deregulation, uncontrolled easy access to guns. A PERFECT STORM!

    I’d like to propose some food for thought. And before you go nuts, yes I am aware of the 2nd amendment but like everything else in the constitution and the bible it does seem that we have a comprehension and interpretation problem.

    We even have two differently punctuated versions of the 2nd Amendment.
    • A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    • A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    Language matters. Precise language matters even more.
    Some choose to only see the right to bear arms. Me, me me.
    Other see it as part of a well regulated militia. Us us us.

    Jared Loughner certainly does not fall into the well regulated militia category. Everything about him screams “Should never be allowed to be near a gun” But yet here we are incapable of regulating this properly and keeping that perfect storm from happening. I think it’s partly because we can’t stop and think things through in calm and rational ways. We get stuck at the me me me and I want my gun.

    Here’s something else to ponder. We require all to have car insurance. Why? Cars can do damage and even kill people. Therefore we require that not only you must purchase insurance you must also register and inspect your car yearly. Why aren’t people up in arms about that? There’s a whole industry and jobs associated with it. You can own a car and not register it or have insurance but you better not be driving on PUBLIC streets.

    Why not apply that thinking to a few other areas in our life that we can’t seem to ever agree on or resolve. Why not try something different. How about anyone can own a gun but they must purchase lliability insurance as well and they must register it and be tested for competency yearly. Why? Because guns can cause of lot of expensive damage. If you have to register and inspect your car yearly, why not apply the same to gun ownership. What are you afraid of? That’s the well regulated part of the speech that always gets left out!

    You have to admit that we must also question the intelligence and reasoning behind allowing people to carry unregistered concealed weapons. At political rallies, in bars and now in schools! I guess Columbine and Virginia Tech were not enough yet.

    Why not look at health insurance the same way. Many people are up in arms over the healthcare bill and I venture to say that the only thing that really sets them off is the part about being forced to buy insurance. I think it’s a stupid compromise. Me personnaly I would much rather have a public single payer option. I know that would be most cost efficient by far. But we can’t get past that – you can’t tell me what to do.

    So please take a step back and look at it this way. Just think about this. If a person does not take care of themself and they get sick with an infectious disease and they don’t get help because they can’t afford it or refuse to. Hey it’s a free country. If they stay on their land or in their house and never go into PUBLIC, so be it. But the minute that they go into PUBLIC, serve you food, handle your children, work in hospitals, now they have a responsibility not to infect others. How do we deal with that problem. Roulette. Rool the dice. Too bad!

    Maybe a more enlightened society might want to look at that and decide that since we now have billions living on the planet and with airplane travel things move around pretty fast and outbreaks can happen pretty quickly. We don’t have too many choices. How do we insure that all have access to healthcare for the common good? I don’t see how forcing people to buy insurance is a solution. It’s not enforceable and it’s not right. Therfore it does not even come close to solving the problems.

    But on the other hand if we looked at it as spreading out the RISK through a public single payer option, It’s not such a big bad boogie man. It’s merely a cooperative non profit solution. What are we AFRAID of.

    Bottom line we need to stop being so sure ONLY WE have the answers and we need to listen to each other in a respectful way. There’s a lot to be gained by that and very little downside. Oh my God, I shut up today and listened to someone I never agree with and I actually learned something.

    • Michael J.

      Eric Bischoff,
      Nuts!

      • eddie47d

        Nothing nuts about what he said….we all need to listen and learn. Protect our second amendment rights but be more responsible about it. You will say that YOU are responsible and the issue get’s shoved under the rug. Nothing changes and nothing learned.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,<[NOTE THE COMMA] the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

      A well regulated driving population being necessary for the economic success of a city, the right of the people to keep and bear cars shall not be infringed.

      I can see your point HOWEVER why does the negative actions of one nutjob justify the regulation of imposing fines, and regulations on tens of millions?

      I am sure Eric being the responsible person you are, that you do not drive drunk. If you were required to pay DRUNKARD INSURANCE would that be ok to you?

      Not attacking you, just hoping you see that I dont see it as fair that I have to suffer more costs, fines, or regulation as a result of one freak.

      We would do much better to straighten things out in our homes, families, and schools. Freedom & Liberty need not be attacked as a result of an isolated tragedy as sad as it is.

    • Angel

      I don’t agree with any of what you have said. The government (at all levels) is confiscating to much of our work product. At what point does it become slavery. We are fast approaching that point if we are not already there. Personal responsibility Eric.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        True. What far too many people DO NOT understand is that those that argue for more regulation, control, limits, etc, will soon find their own ideas, opinions and lives encroached upon and regulated.

        The Freedom & Liberty to express your opinion and desires only exists as long as there is freedom to discuss, share, and disagree.

      • eddie47d

        It’s not an anything goes society where we can do anything we want (until we get caught). We can’t talk about personal responsibility if we are all being irresponsible in our talk and actions. There are speed limits for a reason and you will seldom get stopped for speeding if you do speed. You do have to take responsibility if you do get caught. We can all say what we want and insult whomever we want but be prepared to take responsibility for what you say or do. This Loughnor kid read conservative books and far left books and several fantasy books in between. Psychiatrists have said if he hadn’t shot Gifford then he eventually would have gone after someone else and that could have been a Republican. He was a troubled young man with little responsibility for those around him.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        You still havent Justified why I (a responsible gun owner) need to suffer ANY consequence for this nuts action.

        Like I said…I am sure Eddie47d being the responsible person you are, that you do not drive drunk. If you were required to pay DRUNKARD INSURANCE or give up your car would that be ok to you?

      • independant thinker

        Bitter, despite his claims of being all for private ownership of firearms I have never seen a post by eddie on the subject of firearms that did not call for more restrictions on private ownership.

      • eddie47d

        B.L. Driving drunk in my state get’s you a DUI and they do take away your car (Driving privileges) and insurance rates go up.

      • eddie47d

        I.T. I haven’t seen any posts where you want anything else but the wild west. Does that make us even? I doubt it?

      • Robert Smith

        Lib says: “If you were required to pay DRUNKARD INSURANCE or give up your car would that be ok to you?”

        Sounds to me like you might think buyinig an indulgence to drive drunk makes it OK. It isn’t.

        Drunk (or drivers under the influence of anything, even legal drugs like Contac) drivers SHOULD have their cars taken away.

        More people die from DUI than from guns.

        Rob

      • independant thinker

        Means I win eddie because the so called wild west was actualy quite tame. You have been watching too many Clint Eastwood westerns.

      • eddie47d

        I was actually reffering to the present times in our big cities so I should have clarified.

    • JC

      “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”
      You’re right … language matters.

    • TIME

      Eric,
      An interesting post, but what you seem to forget is that this has all been to the Supreeme Court before.
      As they sided with its the “INDIVIDUALS” rights to own guns as they are the backbone of this country.
      You will also find they used the argument that due to this very issue is why the Japanese during WW II did not attempt an assualt on the US.
      Thus the facts support the wording as its the “personal responsibility” of each citizen to bare arms to protect the basic fabric of this nation.
      As in if the nation is not only attacked from outside its boundaries, but also from within its confines.

      There are no winners, here there are only loosers.

      6 persons lost their lifes. One of the wounded is a friend she’s still not quite back with us 100%, Yes; I refer to Gabby. She would stand by what I have just stated and if any of you knew her you would know that.

      I am saddened by these events and it breaks my heart to wittness the behavior of the NEW YORK TIMES, CBS, NBC, ABC, & MSNBC, CNN, HLN, and the gaggel of PIGS that they employ to report the news, much of it just made up out of thin air.

      Don’t any of you find it totaly strange that not a “single alledged LEADER” has stepped up to the plate and acted in a way that quells this issue? In a way that bonds us together in this time of saddness and loss.
      Thier behavior clearly displays just how inept our alledged leaders are.

      • Teresa

        Time…I agree w/you….and I do see the circle closing. The circle in which congress has weaved for themself over our rights. I wish everyone would open their eyes, step out of their boxes and look at the events taking place…the wikileaks, the media coverage of this and how congress is reacting to it, the UN meetings…the whole picture. Please wake up people…How much do you value your freedom???
        Has anyone even stopped for one second and thought about when this man goes to trial??? Obama comes to the rescue, says the fbi is taking over, he gets a high attorney….how do you think the outcome of this will end???? Now what would happen if he were tried in AZ court?

  • http://n.cates@cox.net Norman F.

    Bob Wire: What?

  • Norm

    Ben is once again in his finger pointing mode. I believe the truth is more like:

    No sooner had the media discovered the YouTube profile page for Jared Lee Loughner — charged with killing six people, including federal Judge John M. Roll and a 9-year-old girl, and wounding 13 others, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., in a shooting in Tucson Saturday — than speculation began about the favorite books Loughner listed there.
    Conservatives pointed to Loughner’s citation of “The Communist Manifesto” as proof that he was a leftist maniac and liberals interpreted his enthusiasm for Ayn Rand’s “We, the Living” as evidence that he was a right-winger.

    Other books on Loughner’s list (the profile was created on Dec. 20) include the children’s classics “Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland,” “Peter Pan” and “The Phantom Tollbooth.” He also claimed to have admired Adolf Hitler’s “Mein Kampf.” But the idea that this list will tell us much about Loughner and any political motives he had for shooting those 19 people is sorely misguided. Anyone who takes the time to watch the 22-year-old college student’s videos ought to be able to see that clearly enough.

    As the New York Times remarked on Sunday, the garbled, rambling and generally incomprehensible statements included in the videos (which consist of text only) are “consistent with the delusions produced by a psychotic illness like schizophrenia, which develops most often in the teens or 20s.” Loughner’s book list is also consistent with a bright, curious, rebellious teenager whose life has been arrested and derailed by just such an illness. In fact, the only surprising thing about that list is that it doesn’t include “The Catcher in the Rye,” a novel important to two other mentally ill shooters: Mark David Chapman (who killed John Lennon) and John Hinckley, who tried to assassinate Ronald Reagan.

    The sole ideological thread running through Loughner’s list is an inchoate anti-authoritarianism. It’s likely that what attracted him to “Mein Kampf” and “The Communist Manifesto” was less the political thinking in either book than their aura of the forbidden, the sensation that he was defying the adults around him by daring to read either one. The rest of his favorites — “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest,” “Brave New World,” “Animal Farm” and “Fahrenheit 451″ — depict deceitful and oppressive regimes committed to squelching individual initiative and thought.

    • libertytrain

      first finger pointing on this site was by a lib leftist regular – the big “D” – quickly followed by several other regular lib leftist posters – pointing fingers greatly outstretched at the rest of us.

      • Karolyn

        What are you talking about???? Not my take at all!

      • bob wire

        Karolyn, ` we are left to believe he didn’t read the OP (original post) or that it should left to go without “any” oppositional response.

        I find the op’s (Ben Crystal) posting extremely inflammatory in view of this mornings back drop, requiring me to take stock in the very nature of the beast I attempt to address this morning.

        I have not yet so much as begun to respond to BC thread post, it’s going to take the rest of this day to cool down. I’m not yet convinced that it’s worthy any response.

      • Karolyn

        You’re right, Bob. I often let my fingers speak before I really think about it and hate doing that.

      • eddie47d

        The first one to bring up the issue yesterday was Patrick and then Eddie W. Both “conservative” commenter’s. I responded to Patrick so to say say we instigated the story line is rather absurd. Jeremy’s comment today was rather subdued so who is ruffling the feathers.

      • libertytrain

        actually the big “D” brought it up first on Saturday as soon as news seemed to break on it.

      • libertytrain

        I have only referred to the finger pointing as news of this horrible event broke:
        2011/01/08 at 4:53 pm
        Denniso to Eddie- Restoring the American Dream
        “We all know which side in this country has been stoking the fires of violence for the past 10 yrs. During the last election cycle some Democratic workers were shot and killed. Now we have a Democratic Rep in Tucson shot and at least 6 people killed in the tragedy,one of the dead a 9 yr old girl. The inflamatory language of the right is responsible for these killings as they shout repeatedly that we need revolution,that ballots may not be enough,that liberals are traitors,that Obama is a marxist. All of that and more makes up much of the comments on this site and that’s all it takes to trigger and unbalanced person to take up violence. Everyone here and elsewhere who uses such language and makes thinly veiled threats on political leaders shares in the blame for these killings.”

        Shameful for the rightwing extremists,Arizona and this country. Six dead, a little girl, and maybe more among the injured. Disgusting!”

      • Denniso

        And I agree…the killer is unstable. The rhetoric of violence, guns, revolution, demonizing and calling political opponents traitors, as well as villifying the gov’t and president can of course contribute to an unstable person acting out w/ violence. No one with any sense doubts that. Most,not all, of the violent rhetoric comes from the party that does the bidding of the NRA and engages in hatespeech and fearmongering. Listen to limbaugh and Savage and then tell me you disagree. Words have consequences,like we tell our children.

      • JeffH

        libertytrain, you are 100% accurate in your comment and backed it up with a copy of the iitial comment by Denniso. Be careful what you paste because Denniso doesn’t like that stuff as I found out…I’m sure you know what I mean…

      • libertytrain

        JeffH – I have nothing to fear on this site. You know that and neither do you. Denniso just proves himself over and over again to be bogus – especially lately.

      • Denniso

        You guys are so clueless and childish. This site has been peppered w/ overt and subtle threats for all the time I’ve been here. I may get angry or flippant at some of the stupid,bigotted and malicious comments here,but I never come close to threatening anyone….politicians or people here. You ignore the actual threats,hate and bigotry/racism from the rightwing extremists here and focus on those of us who try to call those people on their comments directed at groups of people and our president.

        Oh, I forgot,JeffH is one of those rightwing extremists. Liberty just sounds like a tepid follower who wants to try to malign people who call the extremists on their hate game and who has a general distaste for Democrats/liberals/Obama.

      • libertytrain

        You are most certainly entitled to your perception. It’s your personal liberty. And I am equally entitled to mine and don’t mind at all how tepid (sweet word – feels warm and cozy) I appear to you.

  • Mike Austin,TX

    Seems a bit convenient that Congresswoman was pro 2nd amendment. Now they want to pass more laws protecting elected officials more than they protect the average citizen and I am sure there will be an attempted reduction of our rights tucked in there also. Never waste an opportunity huh…..

    • JUKEBOX

      Yes, and it is ironic that all of the Obamaphiles call Chicago home, and one of the worst cities historically for murder and crime.

  • bob wire

    Nice spin Crystal, ~ Are you attempting to be part of any solution or part of the problem?

    darn mean old tree huggers! Hollywood is on the march!

    Well ~ deposit your payroll cash and try to be happy with your efforts.

    A young woman is lying in a hospital bed fighting for her life this morning, while funeral services is being arranged for others ~ and for what? ~~ To sell some kind of political soap?

    It’s just too much to ask of a pitchman to not sell something that 3% of Americans are willing to buy!

  • FlaJim

    Nearly all violence in our society today is fomented by far left wingers and many of the nut jobs are attracted to this. It’s not those on the right who attend those ‘greenie’ conferences and stage violent riots. Leftists show up threateningly at their own party’s (the Dems) conventions to protest they’re not whacky enough. No one on the right made a movie about assassinating Clinton but the lefties were lauded for their efforts in making one about killing Bush.

    Lefties have been getting a bye on their vitriol for years because their propaganda arm, the MSM, approves of their aims. Meanwhile, they accuse the right of doing all the things they actually do or would if the situation was reversed. We know we can win at the ballot box; they know they can’t without stuffing it and using intimmidation.

    All that said, this guy was just a nut job and for the left to try to capitalize on this to push gun control legislation is contemptible (he was taken down and held by an armed citizen). That he identified with the left is what makes it galling to them.

    • JUKEBOX

      People forget that it was some of the Green people that burned all of those cars at dealerships on the left coast.

      • libertytrain

        I believe they also targeted homes/new housing developments as well.

  • Don

    Moderate gun control laws?? Get real, you really think he wouldnt have found a way to get one? The guy is insane. This isnt left or right, it’s the insanity of an individual. If more responsible citizens concealed carried a firearm the nutjob may have been put down faster than he was. You really should do some research. You’ll find that extreme gun laws drive up crime rates where they are placed. So typical of you liberals to attack guns and conservatives, using this terrible tragedy in hopes of political gain. Disgusting!!!

    • JUKEBOX

      I believe a person can go to a strange city with money in his pocket, and within three hours, be able to buy a gun. This is real life.

    • eddie47d

      There are 280 million guns in America and they are fairly easy to buy. So it seems like it is never enough and the conservatives have always used these tragedies as an opportunity to go out and buy more guns. That is a fact you can take to the bank. The more tragedy-the more guns-the more unsafe our nation becomes-the more tragedies that occur. It’s a never ending cycle with little common sense on either side.

      • TIME

        Eddie,
        I can go to Africa today and buy millions of guns all I need is cash.
        I can also go to just about any place in the middle east or South America and again cash is all I need. No ID no nothing.

        You don’t get out much do you Eddie, you may not know this but in the real world Eddie that is outside the US CASH is KING.
        Only in our own country is CASH looked down on, so perhaps you may wish to ask why that is, as in the REAL REASON?

        We have more laws on the books here in the US on guns then we have common sense. If the laws on the books are not upheld of what value will new laws have?

      • eddie47d

        Well then Time we should start upholding the laws on the book and stop ignoring them.

      • JUKEBOX

        Would you be so stupid to try to hurt or rob a person with a weapon in plain sight on his person?

  • Bobbi Martin

    I so totally agree with you By George! This Political Correctness has gotten so far out of hand it is sickening. Look back over just the past 50 years or so. Things in this country have gone ” to hell in a handbasket” since whoever first phrased ‘Political Correctness’! I feel this is a major player in the US being what it is today – well on it’s way to being 3rd world!! The dismantling of gun ownership is but one of many steps headed toward World Government. Those among us who will not see this are the head of the beast. As the saying USED to go…When guns are made illegal, only the criminals will own them. It will NOT stop THEM from owning them. It will only stop US from being able to defend ourselves. Should you be one of the millions who now own a gun for you self preservation, you should really be thinking about a place to hide them, and hide them well, before the time comes when ‘THEY’ come to collect them. This of course will be done ‘For Your Own Good’. I hate seeing what this once grand country is well on it’s way to becoming. I hope I don’t live to see the total take-over by THE NEW WORLD GOVERNMENT.

    • pennsyltuckian

      You are correct sir. The only reason for strong gun control is to prevent free people from exercising their rights and to keep the tyrannical government safe. Considering the leaders of major gun confiscation schemes like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Chavez were devout communists or socialists who realized they could never get their way in a free society what are the dumbocrats now trying with their new control hopes. Yes, Germany was a National Socialist revolution regardless of how the current leftist libs try to spin them as right wing. Consider how different things may have been in Germany, France, Poland, and other countries had the populace been armed and able to defend themselves when being herded to ghettos and death camps.

      • Mick

        pennsyltuckian says:
        January 11, 2011 at 8:05 am
        You are correct sir. The only reason for strong gun control is to prevent free people from exercising their rights and to keep the tyrannical government safe. Considering the leaders of major gun confiscation schemes like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Chavez were devout communists or socialists who realized they could never get their way in a free society what are the dumbocrats now trying with their new control hopes. Yes, Germany was a National Socialist revolution regardless of how the current leftist libs try to spin them as right wing. Consider how different things may have been in Germany, France, Poland, and other countries had the populace been armed and able to defend themselves when being herded to ghettos and death camps.
        &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
        pennsyltuckian ,,,,What you said is absolutely correct….I am originally from France. I Know.!!!

    • JUKEBOX

      If these gun control pacifists had been around during the violent part of the civil rights era 60 or 70 years ago, they would wanted a background check before you bought rope or chain. These things don’t kill any more than a gun, hate kills.

  • Wendy

    Here’s the thing. While Mr. Crystal presents as poorly as those liberal media outlets who bashed the GOP, Palin and the Tea Party, I know where he stands and probably how he arrived. I was around for this crap during the early civil rights movement days. This is very similar, a lot more sophisticated and being carried out by fewer peoples of color and for different reasons, but very similar.

    It is no longer only about who sits where on the bus or who drinks from the cooled electrified drinking founutain. That very movement has been taken and turned into something far less gallant. It is now a tool to further the agendas of the extreme left. It is about a mass take over of power in this country. Is there racism at the heart of it, absolutely. Are some of the instigators unaware that they themselves are being used, without a doubt. Mr. Crystal may very well be one of those who can see this and is frustrated. Name calling is never the answer, but these people tend to push the buttons of the best of us.

  • RHSchumann

    No matter how this tragedy is spun, fact is the policical atmosphere has been poisoned and poisoned mostly by Conservatives or people who pretend they are Conservative. And the hate speeches and suggestions to committ murder must have an effect on simple or deranged minds. If the murderer didn’t read Palin, he certainly was aware of similar statements by Gifford’s opponenet in the last election.
    And don’t forget the NRA. Moderate gun control laws would have prevented this psychopath to buy a weapon in the first place. And that type of weapon should never be on the open market. Under Clinton it was outlawed. The Republican House made the weapon legal again in 2004.

    • Angel Wannabe

      RHShumann, and your doing the same damn thing your acusing others of,the only way it’ll stop if we all shut up, won’t it?__You included!!!__You Conservative bashers are looking for someone to blame for one of your own dems being shot!__This ain’t a political thing buddy boy its a human thing, grow up, people died here, your forgetting that!

    • Pathfinder

      @ RHSchumann : Your desire to ignore the actual political leaning of the shooter, and to unjustly lay this tragedy at the feet of conservatives shows the depth of your own delusion. It is the left which is a constant source of hate and vitriol in political discourse. So, take your Barbera Streisand (BS) accusations and fertilize your garden with them. Your lies are not believed here. You hypocrite !!

    • http://yahoo jowolo

      Sir, you have your facts twisted. Do some research. The laws are on the books to prevent this act. The local authorites dropped the ball. I suppose you think that by allowing larger capacity magazines caused this, and you think it wouldnt have happened if they were limited to just 10 rds. You have no clue.

      • JUKEBOX

        I wonder if he realizes that laws don’t stop crimes, they are supposed to be a deterrent. The jails are full of people that chose to ignore the law, just as Loughner did.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Your Right JukeBox, Laws are for the LAW ABIDING CITIZENS!___Why would criminals care if the laws were changed or not, they don’t abide by them anyway??_makes no friggin sense.

      • bobwire

        laws are for everyone! kinda like locks!

        I know of no one that don’t use them or depends on them in someway.

      • Robert D

        Nicely put. We all are faced with many choices in our lives, unfortunately some choices have bad consequences. Some choose to drive drunk and some decide to shoot people, but it is thier choice no matter what they read or what they are told.

        DO NOT take my freedoms because some Sycophant made a horrific choice.

    • http://naver samurai

      Did you really read the article or other intel about the shooter? I didn’t think so. See, now you went and got a group of patriots angry at your stupid butt for sounding like an arse. This was a tragic event, no question about that. I hope the parents of that child can cope with their loss and I understand somewhat of what they are going through. Though none of my children have died, but I have had to write letters home to a solider’s parents or wife about them dying in action. Never a good feeling. Just lay off of the party stuff and try to make that popping sound. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • http://n.cates@cox.net Norman F.

      It wasn’t the NRA that displayed a picture of Sarah Palin kneeling in prayer while a man stood with a rifle against her head with his finger on the trigger. It was one of the left wing nut jobs.

    • TIME

      RHS,
      Interesting but saddly dude your wrong ~ a glock has never been illegal to buy or own, please don’t post total Rhetroic.
      It only makes you look like an agressively stupid person.
      BTW ~ from many of your HATE filled / Vitrol post I have seen by the way even this post of your’s again cleary displays your utter comtempt and Vitrol.
      Perhaps you should find a class in “anger managment,” or seek out a good Shrink for your anger issues.

      I don’t own any guns but I can clearly understand that “LAWS” take away FREEDOMS, “Regulations” also aid in such restrictions on FREEDOM.

      How about “RESPONSIBILITY and COMMON SENSE.” Could these be possible issues, seems totaly logical to me and thats called the
      “HUMAN CONDITION,” Guns don’t kill people,
      in fact “PEOPLE kill other PEOPLE,” thus its a HUMAN Thing.

      A gun is a tool, just like a hammer or a saw, a baseball bat
      or even a screw driver or a car, all can kill just as dead as any
      gun. JFTR, all can kill just as many and just as fast.

      In Zimbabwe in the 1970′s the Leftist used baseball bats with rusty spikes in them, they killed thousands that way. But why let the TRUTH stand in the way when one can take the easy way out and pontificate such ignorance as you have within your post.

      Thus all points that making laws to restrict gun ownership is all part of the “Police State” mind set, of what disallows ~ FREEDOM.

      With FREEDOM comes that nasty word “RESPONSIBILITY.”

    • Bruce D.

      A very hateful post RHSchuman. You should be ashamed of yourself for that kind of hate speech.

    • castaway

      So in your infinity wisdom , if he was not able to buy a gun, he would not steal one, or use another method? He could have used an automobile as a battering ram, a chainsaw, or better yet, a Crossbow from a roof top. Either way, this nut job would have found a way, and gun control would not have stopped him, but if one of the people there would have been carrying, this NUT would have been dispatched, shortly after firing the first round. You gun haters are simply a bunch of SISSY’S.

    • clh

      TO RHSchumann, Criminals will always have guns when law abiding citizens will be stripped of theirs. They are criminals and will beg, borrow, steal, lie, whatever it takes to obtain one. I am armed for my protection against those wanting to take what belongs to me and not them. This shooter was a lunatic reported by the army who denied him, by his teacher who tried to have him removed from school by the Giffords campaign people who did not want him around. If it has anything to do with politics, blaim the liberals, the UN and Obama who wants to indoctrinate our schools with their agenda. This is how kids are being taught in schools now days.

    • independant thinker

      “And that type of weapon should never be on the open market. Under Clinton it was outlawed.”

      WRONG. That “type of weapon” has never been outlawed. What was banned was the manufacture and sale of NEW magazines capable of holding over 10 rounds. Existing magazines of all sizes were allowed. As for the actual weapon, the shooter used a Glock piston in I believe 9mm. The 9mm Glock pistol has never been out of production.

    • marvin

      RHSchumann
      that type of gun you talk about is a simi automatic 9mm glock no differant then any 22 22m 25 32 380 357 38 41 44 45 simi automatic pistol the clip was an extentd clip that held around 32 rounds as i understand most clips hold 8 or 9 shells but the point is reguardless of clips one shot one hit and simi is one triger pull for each shot

  • Ed

    To Jim – You’re entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree. None of them propogate the hate you speak of and if they do then what do you cal Olberman, Matthews, et al. Please Jim! If someone does not agree with you liberals then you always bring this crap up. We the people have had enough of the liberal agenda; it’s not about hate. It’s about change; change we didn’t want and furthermore, promised change we never received. All of us as Americans need to stand accountable and that includes our elected officials. Lastly you call Republicans hyprocrits; and Democrats aren’t. Some on both sides of the aisle are so let’s not paint with the broad brush sir. Check out all your facts before you rant on. And have a great day.

    • JUKEBOX

      I wonder what he calls Matthews for his comment about sticking a CO2 cartridge in Rush Limbaugh’s face and watching his head explode. If that isn’t violent, hateful speech, then I’m a newborn baby.

      • libertytrain

        Somehow when they make those comments, etc. it doesn’t matter… somehow is not relevant – confuses the heck out of me too.

      • JUKEBOX

        I forgot the killing in New York that Al Sharpton incited, where they burned the business, killing several people.

      • http://www.kjnf.net Jimmimac

        Great call jukebox, the left never proves their accusations against the right, but when we prove the left had angst against the right they attempt to change the topic, read some of my other posts like the charge that rush and beck are creating hate speech I said that he probably never listened to any right wing talk show hosts and the lefties only repeat the lefts mantra like parrots! My next move is to call for a boycott of all vendors on the left wing networks, according to Zogby a poll they conducted 65% of Americans claim to be conservative, so I think if we organize we can shut down the left wing hate stream media, so I hope all you right minded people join in on this!

      • JUKEBOX

        I believe that the boycott has worked, for Air America went bankrupt, Mike Malloy is hiding out in the North Georgia mountains, and government supported NPR is one of the few liberal outlets left.

      • kate8

        Jimmimac – Sounds good to me. Let’s all get organized.

        The Left has been organized for some time, and look how far they’ve gotten. We’ve been asleep at the wheel.

        We’ve got truth on our side. Let’s use it.

    • thundertone

      Hey bud…telling the goddamn truth is not hate speech… get a frigging clue you moron…as I was always taught…ya don’t like what ya hear, then close your ears, but telling the truth is just that…telling the truth…if it blisters your ears dimwitty, then maybe it’s cause you’re part of that hate thinking problem!!

      • kate8

        Well said, thundertone. Truth is truth, whether anyone likes it or not.

        They’ve used political correctness to criple us. If the truth is unpleasant, or goes against their agenda, it’s hate speech, so we have to all agree on a lie.

        No more.

  • http://ByGeorge By George

    Here we go again. A nutter murders a few people including, unhappily, a member of the US House of Representatives, a Federal Judge, a child and several others and suddenly the left goes berserk and immediately starts blaming the TEA Party, Sarah Palin, talk radio, deranged ex-military types, and everybody else not on the Daily KOS e-mail list. It was an assassination attempt as the investigation has now disclosed and the target of the hit was indeed the Arizona Representative, Gabrielle Giffords. That she did’t die outright was a God sent tribute that the on- duty operating room surgeon was a retired US Navy physician, a specialist in penetrating wounds with twenty-four years of experience many on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    That this shooting gained such national prominence was simply because of the status of the victims. The continuing news coverage, repeating over and over again the same sordid details is remarkable in the lack of anything new, except that the shooter was a “left-wing pothead”, and a registered Independent who didn’t vote in the last election. The left is beside itself with fury that their take on the deranged “right” isn’t catching. People are on to them, like Megan Kelly of Fox News who cornered that silly sot of a Sheriff in Pima, County. Under her questioning he had to admit his comments were based on no facts what so ever but were his opinions only. Now the idiot is blaming Rush Limbaugh somehow. The sooner the FBI takes the investigation out of his hands, the better.

    But, what about the shooting? Nothing remarkable actually! It happens everyday here in Atlanta, out in Los Angeles, in New York City, Chicago, Washington D.C., Detroit, and any other large American City, and a lot of small ones you can name, and yet, the national press passes on them. Did I forget to mention to rising violence on our border with Mexico as well?

    Now, lacking a clear anchor with which to drown the conservative side, the political left has returned to that old saw, “gun control” and the question was asked “just how much control should the Federal government have over guns? Well, that question can be answered by referring to our constitution. On a news program tonight, a Democrat politician, a woman, said “Guns kill”. Well, no they don’t! People kill whether it’s with a knife, rolling pin, car, broken beer bottle or a pool cue. So, what else is new?

    What the gun does is to ensure civilization. If a robber wants to rob me, he first has to ponder if I can defend myself. As we do not live in a moral society, he must resort to persuasion or force to convince me to unwillingly part with my wallet. If I cannot defend myself, then I should comply, which is no guarantee that I won’t be killed anyway. However, if I have an equalizer, a gun, then he must make a decision, he can flee or die. I carry a gun, not to kill but to keep from being killed and the law gives me that right to defend myself. High profile people, like Giffords, or the President of the United States, are vulnerable to work alone killers because anyone willing to die can easily make a hit in public. That I can return lethal force works in my favor. It allows me to leave my home without fear, to go just about anywhere I wish to go without molestation (except by the TSA goons) and I can expect to live long into my elderly years with my wallet and my person in tact. When I am armed I have removed force from the equation. Arbitrarily removing guns form the hands of citizens is to empower the robber. It would do nothing to limit his actions. Freedom is the goal, the Constitution is the way!

    • Pathfinder

      @ ByGeorge : Sir, you are correct. I am tired of these gun-phobic idiots trying to disarm honest, decent people. I think that their real goal is to insure the safety of muggers, thieves, and other criminals.

      • JoMama

        Pathfinder – isn’t that sooooo “left”??? Yes. Yes.

      • crystal

        That’s the problem. Gun control fanatics can’t comprehend that the criminals will still get guns.

    • JUKEBOX

      I could not have said it better. Here in Anniston, AL, we have quite a few citizens that are still alive by being armed when a gunman threatened their lives during a robbery, but the robber was not so fortunate. I do not depend on the police to protect my safety, only to write the report of the aftermath.

      • Yvan

        Guns are for cowards and USA if full of it.

      • American Citizen

        Guns are for self-protection, what’s cowardly about that? Are you so anxious to die?

      • JC

        You mean like the “cowards” who were herded into the showers and ovens for lack of guns? Or maybe according to you, they were “brave” for walking right in there at gun point?
        Moron.

      • Yvan

        USA is a sick society and you’re part of it – Stock up on ammo and clean your gun, it’s going to be a hot summer. I know a place were you can buy hand grenades and AK-47, nice store for dick heads.

      • JUKEBOX

        Yvan isn’t old enough to remember pre WW2 Germany, and his liberal teachers at his government indoctrination center feared it might frighten him if he were taught the truth. When they came for the Jews, I didn’t protest, because I wasn’t a Jew. This went on through several groups I wasn’t a part of, and when they came for me, there was no one left to protest. History has a way of repeating itself. Yvan needs some counseling for his rectal cranial inversion syndrome.

        when

      • JC

        Good answer Yvan. Made no sense at all. You must be a Liberal.

      • marvin

        u don,t like guns next time you need help don,t call the cops they are all armed,u don,t like the usa no one will stop u from moving to mexico the citizens their have no guns,whats that u say they are being murder by the ten,s of thousands so what they gave up their rights to own guns now just the crooks on both sides of the law have guns and it is hard to tell who is the bad guys and the sheep like u are in the middle

      • kate8

        marvin – Excellent. Your point about Mexico is a great one. The murder down there is out of control, and the people have no protection.

        It’s easy to pick off people who can’t defend themselves. What a great idea.

      • Teresa

        REALLY! Then tell every military person that sacraficed their life for you to have Your freedom to be allowed to speak that! Say that to every law-abiding citizen whom stands for Freedom. But especially tell that to the people running round clock security for our President! Why don’t you call him up and tell him that?

  • JIM

    HOW ABOUT ALL THOSE FAR RIGHT PEOPLE SPEWING THE HATE AND VIOLANCE. YOU KNOW RUSH , GLEN BECK,HANNITY, AND MOST OF THE GOP. IT IS AMAZING HOW THE REPUBLICANS CAN START SOMETHING AND THEN TRY TO BLAME THE DEMOCRATS. THEY ARE SUCH HIPOCRITS

    • Angel Wannabe

      JIM, Sounds like your trying to get something started too__EH?

    • Pathfinder

      What hate and violence ?? Psychologists call what you are attempting here PROJECTION. The left has been spewing hate and practiceing violence for a long time and wants to accuse conservatives of the very things which liberals have been practicing for a long time. Show me some video of tea partiers intimidating voters as the new black panthers did in Philadelphia. You can’t because there were none. It is no wonder that a leftist nut case thought he could get away with murder. After all, BHO’s justice department saw to it that the voter intimidation charges were dropped.

      • JoMama

        Pathfinder – you are right.
        Tea-partiers are just little old ladies & gentlemen with a passion for law & order. NOT the evil hate-mongers the left makes them out to be. There is NOTHING wrong with freedom of speech (that’s one of our Constituional rights). And there is NOTHING wrong (or racist) about wanting to uphold the law of the land & prosecute the ones who do break the law.
        I feel for all those people who were shot in Tuscon, AZ – no doubt. The act of just one crazy man (Jared Loughner) cannot condemn the mission in which the Tea-partiers are working for. These people are working for the all the rights & freedoms FOR the American people. It’s really too bad when fellow lawless American leaders who do not have the same views are fanning the flames of fear & hate. Yes, making it seem as though it is all Republican at fault here. They are practically saying that all the Republicans pulled the trigger!!
        THAT IS SO WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS!!!
        We are the UNITED STATES – NOT THE DIVIDED STATES!!!

      • Karolyn

        Little old ladies and gentlemen????????

      • American Citizen

        A lot of us who agree with the Tea Party’s views are senior citizens. We’ve lived long enough to know the policies of the leftists don’t work, they impoverish all but the elite. The elite then makes it almost impossible to better your station in life. It’s called “slavery”. Some call it socialism or communism. By any name, it’s bad for us. We are in grave danger of losing our Constitutional form of government and the freedoms it gives us if we don’t wake up.

    • TIME

      Jimmie, have you checked your dippie? I smell something real bad and its coming from you.

      • Karolyn

        Now, see? Is this really necessary? You sound like a kindergartner. I would expect more from you, Time.

      • TIME

        Karolyn,
        So let me get this straight, I am not allowed to have fun with a moreoff?
        Really?

      • Karolyn

        Nobody said anything about being “allowed” to do anything. I could care less if you want to act like a jerk. The point is we’re supposed to be mature adults!

    • chas

      If it wasn’t for being sick & tired of hearing Blue-shirted Liberal NAZIZ spew their venom for years through the lamestream media, academia, and the halls of congress/ presidential pulpit, I would NOT EVEN BE ON THIS SITE!!…ANYONE with a BRAIN knows BSLN arguments are specious and meant ONLY to silence opposition….WE are AWAKE, AWARE and ON to YOU!!…This ALL will change either by BALLOT….OR…..BULLET!!….I….AM….READY…AND….WAITING!!

      • eddie47d

        You sound like part of the problem with you’re “liberal Naziz” ranting.

      • http://yahoo.com chas

        Eddie, you Blue-shirted liberal NAZI panty=waist!!…I’M part of the SOLUTION!!

      • eddie47d

        Not!

    • http://naver sook young

      Jim, please do these things:

      1. Learn to spell more correctly.
      2. Learn about the subject at hand. It was already reported that he was a pothead and a left wing extremist. The GOP, TEA party, etc, had nothing to do with this. Please quit acting childish.
      3. This may have been an isolated incident and not affiliated with any political party. Why blame someone or something else than the person doing the shooting?

      Are these points clear enough for you? Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

      • Curtis

        hahaha ‘…more correctly’? Something cannot be done ‘more correctly’, it’s either correct or it isn’t. Everyone has their flaws… his is spelling yours is seems to be grammar.

      • independant thinker

        And yours is being an A$$

    • http://n.cates@cox.net Norman F.

      Jim: How do you know those folks “spew hate and violence”? Do you listen to them? Or do you rely on the oh-so-far left MSM? You should put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion!

    • Rod

      Please share with us any of the hate and violence rhetoric that you “claim” emanates from Rush, Beck and Hannity. It has always been interesting to me to observe the thinking of others. It seems in today’s society that we cannot disagree to any degree with someone on the “left” without them calling us racist, hate mongers or anti-American (and that comes from the top down). Grow up and learn how to engage in an exchange of ideas and ideologies. Sometimes we (you and I) may even raise our voices. Sometimes in these types of exchanges I have been known to raise my voice – not out of anger but because I can be very passionate about what is going on in my life, with my family and with my country. I promise to always listen to what you say and ask questions if I don’t understand. I have noticed that that is not something that the “left” is willing to do. I’m not even sure that the “left” has the ability to listen even if they wanted to.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Rod, None of this crap the Libs are spewing is about “Conservative Violent Rhetoric”. The lefties have hijacked a tragic shooting incident and turned it political in trying to find someone to blame for a fellow democrat getting shot.__This tragedy in Arizona to me isn’t political, it should be viewed as tragic and human.

    • Mike Austin,TX

      Jim, Jim, Jim. I really feel sorry for you. You should sit and listen to some of these shows you “hate” before passing judgement spoon fed to you by the media. Especially Glenn Beck. He has never advocated any violence and he actively campaigns against it. Just for the very reason you are claiming. I don’t agree with GB all the time regarding how to remove a corrupt gov’t, but he seems to be right about how you react.

    • Mick

      JIM says:
      January 11, 2011 at 7:12 am
      HOW ABOUT ALL THOSE FAR RIGHT PEOPLE SPEWING THE HATE AND VIOLANCE. YOU KNOW RUSH , GLEN BECK,HANNITY, AND MOST OF THE GOP. IT IS AMAZING HOW THE REPUBLICANS CAN START SOMETHING AND THEN TRY TO BLAME THE DEMOCRATS. THEY ARE SUCH HIPOCRITS
      ********************
      JIM……It looks to me that the hypocrisy lies in your camp.
      You say that the Republicans start something and try to blame the democrats,how many decades has the left continuously held protests marches while the right sat on the side line doing nothing.You don’t like what’s happening right now because other folks finally had enough of the left crap and are beginning to rebel against you to save our country.
      You can bet that if there was anything to discredit our country the left were the first involved. race, pay, off the walls rights designed to benefit criminals and the list go on and on,,,,,,,,,
      What happened in Tucson has nothing to do with any party or other person than the killer, as for the hate , just look at your post and comments made by Olbermann, Krugman, the Tucson sheriff and the stupid media that has been plaguing our air waves for decades, talk about hating the people who think differently, if you libs can’t convince others to veer toward your mind set you slander them in order to destroy them..
      The way I see it, the left has pushed the envelope for too long, I don’t hate people on the left but I sure don’t want anything to do with them or their agenda.
      I see a snake, I don’t hurt it, I just walk away from it………….

      • Karolyn

        I would have to ad that those protest marches were by and large peaceful.

      • Mick

        Karolyn says:
        January 11, 2011 at 8:36 am
        I would have to ad that those protest marches were by and large peaceful.’
        &&&&&&&&&&&&*****************
        Karolyn …Some were, some were not!
        We’re headed toward the European style of living under the democrat’s agenda and for decades their leftist demonstrations have been anything but peaceful, how long do you think it will take before America is plagued with the same violent organized demonstrations as in Europe, it goes with the mentality and we’re damn close to it…………

      • ValDM

        You still have to qualify it with “by and large”. Were those prostests peaceful or not???? NO gray area here. yes or no!!!

      • Karolyn

        The peace marches were and are always peaceful. Gay marches are always peaceful until religious nuts start trouble. the million man march was peaceful. Dr. King’s rallies were always peaceful. Pro-choice marches are peaceful unless anti-choice activists start trouble.

      • Michael J.

        Karolyn,
        Apparently you are un-aware or are ignoring the Queer Nation Manifesto.
        Here’s a sample.

        “Until I can enjoy the same freedom of movement and sexuality, as straights, their privilege must stop and it must be given over to me and my queer sisters and brothers.

        Straight people will not do this voluntarily and so they must be forced into it. Straights must be frightened into it. Terrorized into it. Fear is the most powerful motivator. No one will give us what we deserve. Rights are not given they are taken, by force if necessary.

        It is easier to fight when you know who your enemy is. Straight people are you enemy. They are your enemy when they don’t acknowledge your invisibility and continue to live in and contribute to a culture that kills you.”

      • Karolyn

        Michael – I would seriously doubt that they have a large gay following. I’ve known many gays and never one who was that militant. I’ve never heard of them in any violent actions, marches, or protests. Have you?

    • JUKEBOX

      Jim seems to think that you can stop the bullets of a madman with beautiful, sensitive words. He is too stupid to know that all of the people he named, and most of the other conservative talk show hosts, are paying for 24 hour security out of their own pockets, not some paid government bodyguard. This is due to the multiple death threats they receive from left wing whackos every day.

      • eddie47d

        The whole issue has gone over your head when you blame one side over the other. Which means you are one sided and just can’t fathom that the right and left both sprue out venom. The left has it’s Olbermann’s and the right has it’s Limbaugh’s. I doubt if any of you knew this but in my state our Democrat Senator was threatened Friday night less than 16 hours before the Tuscon incident. A John Davis made statements that were recorded and the police arrested him. “I’m going to come down there and shoot you all”,”I’m going to set fire to your perimeter”,”I may go terrorism on you all”. You know what his beef was?Social Security benefits! This guy is only 44 years old and wants his SS benefits and is willing to kill for it. We have our own Wackos up here too.

      • JUKEBOX

        I would venture to say that the talk show hosts receive many more threats than any member of Congress do.

    • Bruce D.

      You accuse others of what you are doing Jim. Certainly the three people you mentioned do not hate and it is very hateful for you Jim to try and project that onto them.

    • castaway

      They are mostly Spewing the truth about the left. Kind of makes you uncomfortable when you know you are part of the problem Huh?

    • crystal

      It wasn’t the Right who pulled last Saturday’s trigger in Tucson, AZ. It was a refer-head liberal.

    • always right

      Jim. Please cite one quote where any of the people you named are
      inciting violence. (…listens to the crickets chiiirrrping…)

      Thank you. Now shut up and go away. you’re an idiot

      • Curtis

        As previously posted….
        August 10, 2006, Glenn Beck warned on his radio program that “[t]he world is on the brink of World War III” and that “Muslims who have sat on your frickin’ hands the whole time and have not been marching in the streets” will face dire consequences. Beck made his comments toward Muslims who he claimed “have not been saying, ‘Hey, you know what? There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. We need to be the first ones in the recruitment office lining up to shoot the bad Muslims in the head.’”
        May 17, 2005, broadcast of The Glenn Beck Program, Beck said he was “thinking about killing Michael Moore ” and pondered whether “I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it,” before concluding: “No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out — is this wrong?”
        BTW… yes, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and “the Right” have said hateful things… so has Keith Olbermann and the gang on “the Left”. The shooter had mental health issues and committed his heinous act before he was diagnosed. As someone has already said (elsewhere) blaming the media is like blaming Jody Foster for the shooting of Ronald Reagan.

    • http://www.kjnf.net Jimmimac

      I WILL BET YOU A DIME TO A DOLLAR THAT YOU NEVER LISTEN TO ANY OF THEM, AND IF YOU SAY YOU DO, I WILL ASK YOU ONE QUESTION WHICH I BET YOU CANNOT ANSWER SO STOP BEING A PARROT AND SAYING WHAT THE LEFT WING HATE MEDIA SAYS AND LISTEN FOR A CHANGE, OR ARE YOU AFRAID THAT YOU MAY FIND THAT THE LEFT IS ALL WET!

    • marvin

      JIM
      you like flashless and a few more thank just like obama if we disagree you will get in our face but trouble with that is their are more of us then you, and in the end you lose for truth is truth and facts are facts and your opinions are like a grain of sand on the beach amount to nothing

  • Michael J.

    Hiding in plain sight is the culprit responsible for the chaos we are all now witnessing. A seemingly benevolent phrase which has become an un-written rule in western society. I am talking about the 90 year old scourge called “Political Correctness”

    Black -vs -White, Straight -vs – Gay and Left -vs – Right are amonsgt the stated goals of “Political Correctness” as prescribed by the desciples of Karl Marx in that Socialist think tank known as The Frankfurt School in 1920′s Germany whose mandates were and are as such:

    1. The creation of racial tension
    2. Continual change to create confusion and chaos
    3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
    4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
    5. Huge immigration to destroy sovereign identity.
    6. The promotion of excessive consumption of drugs and alcohol
    7. Emptying of churches through persistent critisism of church values and symbols
    8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
    9. Dependency on the state and state entitlements
    10. Control and dumbing down of media
    11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family

    One of the main ideas of the Frankfurt School was to exploit Freud’s idea of ‘pansexualism’ – the search for pleasure, the exploitation of the differences between the sexes, the overthrowing of traditional relationships between men and women. To further their aims they would:

    • attack the authority of the father, deny the specific roles of father and mother, and wrestle away from families their rights as primary educators of their children.
    • abolish differences in the education of boys and girls
    • abolish all forms of male dominance – hence the presence of women and gays in the armed forces
    • declare women and minorities to be an ‘oppressed class’ and white men as ‘oppressors’

    Faculty member Munzenberg summed up the Frankfurt School’s long-term operation thus: ‘We will make the West so corrupt that it stinks.’
    Any of this sounding familiar yet? The parellels with our present day society are mind boggling.

    In the 1930′s the Frankfurt School Communist became too radical even for Hitler who banished them into exile. The group landed in of all places, Columbia University, New York where they set up shop until after the war in Europe was over. Before they moved back to Germany in the 1950′s they managed to create in their own image and likenees a few people whose names have recently become significant such as Saul Alinsky and Cloward & Piven whose plans for Progressive Marxism were obviously cast from the original set of goals prescribed by the Frankfurt School scholars.

    Here is also a video that explains in detail the origins and goals of “Political Correctness”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyu-9-OhHog

    • MsAmericanPatriot

      Michael you hit the nail on the head. That school is to blame for what is now happening in America. That is what the left wants for America and it is high time that America sees that this is what Rush and Beck see and do NOT like whatsoever. We want a school of thought like that of our Founding Fathers not these humanist nut jobs.

      • American Citizen

        I also blame Hollywood and the media for a lot of what is happening for the coarsening of our society. Parents are having a harder time raising their children as it is impossible to keep them from being exposed to all the trash out there.

      • kate8

        All well and good, folks, seeing where our kids are being led astray.

        But the real blame falls squarely on our own shoulders. We haven’t paid attention, we haven’t watched where the schools were going with our kids, and we’ve allowed the government to fill up with Progressives who have been incrementally dismantling our nation.

        We’ve stood by while our kids lost values, morality and ethics. We’ve watched them grow lazy and entitlement-minded. We’ve allowed them to believe America is bad, that socialism is good, and that excellence isn’t cool.

        Thank God that my grown kids still have values, and they can see what is going on in spite of their liberal friends. But it took them awhile to come back around, in spite of the fact that I didn’t see it myself as they were growing up.

        God is good.

      • Angel Wannabe

        kate8, I hear that kate8, our 28-30 year old kids thought we were nutz too__now they’re payin attention a little more, and gettin involved__Thank Christ!

    • UncleOtto

      Well put Michael!!

    • JUKEBOX

      I watched Rachel Maddow give a diatribe on gun control last night, showing stories of all the mass shootings in the last few years. I did not hear one word about someone in these incidents being armed, with the capability of stopping a madman or senseless killer. When George Wallace was shot, his personal bodyguard, State Trooper E.C.
      Dothard, took the first two bullets, and went to his grave regretting that he had not done more to protect the governor. I also noticed that two of the three people who restrained Loughner were over 70 years of age. Young people today have been trained to be pacifists. If there had been an armed patriot in that crowd Saturday, we would not have to worry about spending millions to have a trial for this nut case.

      • Angel

        You didn’t watch the entire Maddow show – she had an aide to the congresswoman who also tried to stop the shooter. He was a young, large hispanic man named Daniel Hernandez (who was honored by Gov. Jan Brewer and has just been hailed by the Family Research Council). 3 guys to why he appeared on her show…

      • JUKEBOX

        You’re right, I can only tolerate a minimum amount Of MSLSD. The aide is the one who tried to control the bleeding, which is very commendable of this young man, but I don’t believe that under the circumstances he was not able to do much else.

      • kate8

        Congress is already introducing gun legislation. It’s like they already had it ready, just waiting for an incident. (No! Really?)

        Taking guns is big on their agenda. Hillary’s already promised the UN that we’d be giving up our guns.

      • Al Sieber

        I agree with you Kate, and I also believe it’s a diversion to take our minds off of a lot of other stuff they’re planing to pull on us.

    • Bruce D.

      It looks like the left has succeded in in most of their goals Michael J.

    • crystal

      Excellent point!!!

    • Teresa

      Michael….a very well put statement. I wish everyone could place their hatred behind them, at least for one day and pray for all the lost and their families and for congresswoman Gabby. Regardless of OUR views, can we Please focus on Their needs just for today! We all know the media did play a bias role in their views but this has been going on and will not change. It’s WE, our rights, our personal actions in which we are accountable for. The government will go after OUR rights by any means. Is it right? Absolutely NOT! Should we give up any of these rights? Absolutely NOT! There will ALWAYS be nuts out there till the end of time bent on horrific acts, rather they act alone or rather they are influenced, but that does not give the government the right to punish nor take away the rights of WE THE PEOPLE! There is an outcry over Our rights of freedom of speech and guns. I hear how the media and congress twist it and distort it and make it as if WE THE PEOPLE are already quilty of crimes of revolting against congress. It is not a crime to be angry about how congress has cheated and lied to US and let our voices be heard. It is a Right to bear arms to defend and hunt. What congress fails to realize is We fear THEM. I do not condone violence, but I would fight for the freedom of the Constitution and the rights for ANY OF YOU on here.

    • http://na. Robert Bradfield

      Its that South African again. The most dangerous speak is half truths or blatant lies. Lie about the motives of a specific group of people and repeat it continuously and it becomes the “truth”. We have seen how Herr Hitler used it to eventually turn the German people against the Jews. It is at present happening in South Africa where the whites are continuously accused for not “working” with the new government to uplift the rest of the country – which is not true – but people are starting to accept that, to what ends is still not clear. To draw the line further to your situation, if people continue to accuse the “right” as the war mongers in the US, and it is repeated till it becomes the “truth” then one has the beginning of a armed civil conflict.

      • kate8

        Robert Bradford – Yes, that’s it exactly.

        They just keep loudly repeating a lie until everyone believes it to be true.

      • libertytrain

        I like reading you Robert. You are actually “walking the walk” rather just “talking the talk” – in other words you are there and living it and seem to hope we aren’t forced to do the same.

      • http://deleted Claire

        libertytrain–I heard that Church group from Kansas that goes around “protesting” at soldeirs’ funerals is supposed to be at that little 9-year-old girl’s funeral. From what I hear Arizona is going to be “ready” for them and I hope they are. I also heard there is talk of Hell’s Angels possibly being there to keep this nutty church group away? Also about 10,000 people are lined up to keep the weirdos at bay? Is there no end to the insanity in America?

      • Karolyn

        Claire I believe it’s another motorcycle group that does that. they have done it at other funerals those wackos wanted to protest at.

      • libertytrain

        I believe that if anything would bring the libs and conservs together, it would be to protect the helpless and suffering from these unGodly people.

      • kate8

        Claire – No! That’s deplorable.

        I don’t really know anything about this churchgroup, but they certainly don’t seem very Christian to me.

        It sickens me to hear that. These people have n0 decency. The parents of this child have enough suffering to deal with. It’s unbelievable to me that any church would be so heartless. That anyone would.

        My heart aches for this family. What a beautiful child, and a waste. I’d be totally devastated.

      • DamnYankee32

        It is suppose to be true that the church group that protest at funerals are to be there at the funerals. Ijust heard of this on the tv. I heard that the people of Tucson will not allow the protesters as near as the protesters want to be to the families.

  • Angel Wannabe

    “Murder has no party affiliation”__Especially a beautiful 9 year old little girl._Sadly Wackjobs are a part of Society, we know they’re out there, but no one knows when or where they’ll snap.
    You can’t arrest people for they’re opinions or because they act weird, like this man has done most of his life._ The authorities can go and talk to people about Loughners life all they want. Yes, the signs of mental illness were there, but until these people “Do Something against someone else”, No one, can “do” anything thing legal about them!__
    All of us can get fired up about politics, either side, but it’s the mentally sick Lone Wolf that’s the real danger here not heated political debate.
    I do have to agree with Ben, the Libs jumped on the bashing conservative bandwagon.(Well at least its not Bushes fault) I’m not having that, thats all for another time. Innocents died at the hands of a madman, period. The “do-gooders” of the world will die themselves trying, to pinpoint and stop, the next the gunman before another has to die. Unless they’re mind readers no one will stop it. It’s just a sad sad fact!

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Angel… You are so correct. The media should not be trying to blame this on anyone except the the shooter! As deranged as this young man appears to be, he was not motivated by one single thing, but a combination of his lifestyle and the need to ‘do something.’ Only time will tell how mentally unstable he is. My prayers are with the survivors and the families.

      • Wild Bill

        Angel,Robin
        Thank you both for saving me a lot of time typing.I need say little more than I agree with your statements.There is way too much vitriol poured out on sites like these from both sides of the political spectrum.The gunman in Tuscon was a sick individual who acted not out of anger stemming from any given political viewpoint,but as a result of internal demons that are apolitical.Not to make light of this subject matter,but he just as easily could have shot up a McDonalds because he was once,as a child,refused a pony for his birthday.This tragedy in Tuscon should not be used as political fodder by either side.Let us all learn a lesson from this.Other than in the protection of life and property,acts of physical violence are the product of a mind that places no value on life.As much as we have our political disagreements here,let us agree to take a break from finger pointing and ponder the events in Arizona and pray for all the victims.

        Wild Bill
        Alaska

      • kate8

        Angelw- and Wild Bill – That sounds great and all, but this blame and run game from the left has gone on too long. They point their fingers and then we’re all told to come together.

        Yes, it was a horrible act, and we need to stand with the victims. And we do.

        But we simply can’t allow the Left to get away with this stuff anymore. And they will use it to pass every bit of egregious legislation they can get away with. Just watch. They won’t let it go without taking every advantage of it.

        I, for one, am not going to back off this time. It’s got to stop, before they use every act of violence to render us all completely powerless. This is the stuff the Left thrives on. It gives them what they need to advance their miserable agenda. If we back off now, it will continue to work, and they will continue to use it.

        Humanity is not 100% predictable. Short of total enslavement and technological mind-control, acts of violence cannot be stopped. All you have to do is look around the world at those who have tried.

        Unless we all repent (and I do mean the LEFT, as well) and drop the blame game, then we have to remain alert and vigilant against the moves of the Left. Forget their words of “coming together’. They lie. Always watch what their other hand is doing.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Kate8, I get it about the lefties_What they’ve done is hijacke a tragedy, to further an agenda that lost steam as a result of the election. All I’m sayin its sad as hell that it has to be politics as usual, in the light of a madman taking lives and maming so many.

      • marvin

        Robin from Arcadia, IN
        you are one hundred % right the media get paid to do news like it or not,but when the police start spouting their opinions with out facts to back it up then we have a problum we don,t pay the goverment for their opinions from the street cop to the president we want facts from them .the sheriff need keep his opinion to his self and deal with facts not what he perceive as fact that don,t back up what this mad man has done

    • dstk

      On one hand the left Liberals are, “tree huggers, “doo gooders” “goody two shoes” wanting to help all “those looser” and so on… but now in this situation “The Left has developed a cottage industry built on hatred” as you say.

      you can’t have it both ways… You are truly from the asylum. As you can see here even on this site most everyone is able to see that what has been happening with the escalation of hate and anger and believe it is wrong on both sides, if you will, but not you, you continue, even it this sad tragic event to spill your hate. and YOU profit from it.

      how can you possibly now do this “reversal” rhetoric with people like Rush and Beck as your chosen spokes persons, which you promote everyday!

      • chow

        I’ve listened to Rush and Glenn but i’ve never heard them say anything violent or espousing violence. All I hear from them are their political observation and about people in politics and their political background and beliefs. Yes I know it’s hard to hear the truth about yourself when you hear it from somebody else.

      • Curtis

        Okay… this took about ten seconds to find….

        August 10, 2006, Glenn Beck warned on his radio program that “[t]he world is on the brink of World War III” and that “Muslims who have sat on your frickin’ hands the whole time and have not been marching in the streets” will face dire consequences. Beck made his comments toward Muslims who he claimed “have not been saying, ‘Hey, you know what? There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. We need to be the first ones in the recruitment office lining up to shoot the bad Muslims in the head.’”
        May 17, 2005, broadcast of The Glenn Beck Program, Beck said he was “thinking about killing Michael Moore ” and pondered whether “I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it,” before concluding: “No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out — is this wrong?”

        Shoot bad Muslims in the head? Choke the life out of Michael Moore? I’m no fan of ‘bad Muslims’ or Moore… here are two examples of what you asked for.

      • http://elitespacovers.com jfrodriguez-m50 gunner

        Curtis,be open and listen,I was raised by humble people a mexica indian/mestizo and a cauc.american white never was i told of hate but to analize and listen,you should do the same,watch Farrakak,Obama,Clinton,Jones and all the rest and find where all this is coming from,yes! there is fault from the other side but not as criminal a them like thaught in the corps,listen obverve annalize the act.

    • Norm

      Angel Wannabe
      Hold on to your hat.
      I agree with everything you said except that I think that Ben and the conservatives are making as much “hay” of this as the liberals are.
      This monster clearly isn’t running on all cylinders. It’s too bad a cop didn’t take him out then and there!
      Pardon my unbridled violence!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Norm_ This back and forth name calling in a tragedy, is just plain cold & stupid. To blame political debate on this is ridiculou-PERIOD! The madman that pulled the trigger, is the only one accountable. I don’t really care what his reasons or political motives were. Besides irregardless what he was politically?, it won’t change the murder verdict in the end.

      • kate8

        Angel W – Have you forgotten that the Left has pledged never to let a good crisis go to waste?

        Where’s your usual clear thinking here, girl?

      • Angel Wannabe

        kate8, Oh don’t worry kate the clear thinkin is still here_ and I’m just as p*ssed off as the rest of ya’s about these Liberals starting this crap by calling out Rush, Beck and Palin as soon as the first shot was fired. It’s tragic that nutjobs are on the loose and innocents gotta pay!_ and even worse that the Liberal wacks think the Conservatives had something to do with these murders. Almost sounds like the Libs are marking they’re territory for 2012 election, doesn’t it?

      • American Citizen

        What gets me is that she received death threats even from the shooter, but she didn’t have the security she should have had. Politicians know they are fair game, they admit it, but to not provide security for yourself when out in public is the height of folly these days.

      • Dale on the left coast

        The shooter had contact with the Sheriff’s dept about 5 times . . . why didn’t the Dimmicrap senile 75 yo sheriff do something about this clown???

      • kate8

        Dale – You are so right. The sheriff knew what this guy was about, and had been monitoring him. He even told Ms. Gifford that he was under control.

        Now he’s deflecting his own culpability by blaming Rush and conservative talkers. Why wasn’t someone there to make sure there was no incident? Were they, in fact, aware that Ms. Gifford was in danger, and they already knew how they would spin it?

        Things are really starting to smell more and more fishy. It’s also looking more and more like a false flag.

    • DamnYankee32

      Angel, don’t bet on it, that they will blame Bush. The left will work hard to blame others, themslves are blameless. Right?? The total facts aren’t in, other than the shooter was deranged. Yet that has not been proved.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    I disagree with Mr Crystal on this matter. I feel the shooting of Congresswomen Giffords and the murder of six innocent people in Tuscon was ultimatly an expression of a distorted mind, a cowardly extremist, and the horrific consequences that result when extremist action matches extremist rhetoric. I believe that while this mans reading of extremist literature helped contribute to his deranged fantasies I do not feel it is a reflection of any sort of realistic political ideology. I believe that rhetoric of an extremist nature which supposedly contributed to this crime is something applicable to all sides of the political spectrum be they Democrat, Republican, Conservative, Liberal, Libertarian, Progressive, Left or Right. I believe people from all sides in recent months and years have used slanderous and bias words to insult opponents and have resulted in turning politics into a no comprimise, no solution atmosphere. Wether that contributed to the actions of such an obviously deranged man I do not know. But I will say two things. The first as I said I believe extremism can be blamed on many so I strongly disagree with those who seek to blame this incident on Sarah Palin and her supporters. That being said I feel I must criticize Mr Crystal for choosing to denounce slanderous and inflammatory rhetoric while using it himself.

    • Kinetic1

      You are so right, Jeremy. The violent rants from all sides has grown to dangerous proportions ad no one group has the market cornered. Yes, BlueBoy made some awful statements regarding his opposition to his representative’s choices, but here on this very sight I read one persons idea of sitting on a roof top, picking off gays with his rifle. All this hatred and vitriol may get you the attention you crave, and it may make for good ratings, but it does nothing good for our nation.

      • dstk

        Yes, they are part of the problem, not the solution!!!

      • eddie47d

        Then Steve(below) why does Ben blame everything on the left.We can see with our own eyes what he is full of and we are not making things up.

      • http://yahoo.com chas

        Because EVERYTHING that is WRONG with this society ORIGINATES/METASTASIZES/MURDERS from “the LEFT”(heretofore referred to as BSLN or BLUE-SHIRTED LIBERAL NAZIZ)!!….All who post here need to understand that “slow Eddie”, Dennis-BOZO, and Kinetic-PHART are LIARS &do NOT care about DISCUSSION….They ONLY care about SILENCING DISCOURSE( ie: first amendment AND SECOND AMENDMENT[ aka: ...fear..])….We MUST continue to call them out on their LIES( see “Sultry Sarah”/ “Mama Grizzly” response to the BSLN in the lamestream media)…The use of DENIAL( #ONE BSLN psychological defense mechanism to SILENCE civil discourse), PROJECTION(def: painting the opponent as EXACTLY what YOU are[#TWO PSYCHO defense mechanism to SILENCE opposition]), and EQUIVALENCE(painting ONE DESPICABLE ACT as equal to a NORMAL response/act[#3 PSYCHO defense]), along with non-sequiters and changing the sublect , are used against ALL of you to respond to their LIES!!…STOP IT!!…If you MUST respond, respond knowing thar they care NOT about TRUTH/JUSTICE and chastise them accordingly…..E/D/K/….GO BACK TO DAILY KOS WHERE THERE ARE PEOPLE OF YOUR SICK PSYCHE!!…You have been OUTED here!!…..

      • Steve

        Hey dumbass, big difference between “I heard a guy on a blog say something hateful” and hearing the hateful and violent come from people in the media. Keep deflecting the facts, maybe some of the gullible masses may believe you but others won’t. It’s shameful to blame this terrible event on Sarah Palin, Glen Beck and the “Right”. Shameful and blatant lies.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Steve your absolutly right. Im just saying its just as wrong to try and blame it on the left or liberals as I believe Mr Crystal is.

      • Vicki

        Apparently you should re-read the article. Mr. Crystal is pointing out that the liberal media is going out of its way to blame any and all conservatives IN SPITE of the evidence that Mr Crystal presented that the hate speech is coming from the LIBERAL press and liberals in high and or prominent places. His story is all and only about hypocrisy and how stunningly obvious it is.

      • Dogma-Free

        Oh, Ben…again, trying to spread disinformation among your already misinformed cohorts.

        Go ahead and spin again, Vanna!

        Here are some more quotes to add:

        “Don’t retreat, reload!”

        - Sarah Palin, former Governor of Alaska

        =========================================

        “If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies.”

        - Sharron Angle, former member of the Nevada State Assembly

        ========================================

        “If ballots don’t work, bullets will.”

        - Joyce Kaufman, Radio host, Tea Party activist

        ========================================

        “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

        - Currently serving United States Congresswoman from Minnesota, leader of the Tea Party Caucus, paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson

        ========================================

        “Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they’ve gotta realize there are consequences to that action.”

        - Currently serving Congresswoman from Arizona Gabrielle Giffords

        ******************************************************************

      • JeffH

        Jeremy, I agree with your take that the rhetoric should stop from everyone, but I do see what Ben is saying…case in point…Dogma-Free immediately chases down Palin and points the blame, but fails to recognize that the Democratic strategists used these tactics as far back as the 70′s…per the words of Bob Beckel last night on Hannity and that the Democrats had targets featuered on their website for the states and candidates that they had “targeted” for defeat in 2008, it is a fairly common practice. What someone says on any blog isn’t what influences the actions of someone like Loughner who is obviously mentaly disturbed.

        We can argue all day that he said she said crap but my experience with this website is that the hate and vitriol directed at Bush, Cheney, Beck, Limbaugh, Reagan, conservatives, republicans and the right far exceeds that of any other pointed vitrolic remarks directed at the liberals and Democrats, Obama and his administration and we all know there is enough of that as it is.

        There are individuals here that search out comments and will tie violence into every word despite the context. Some are as crazy as Loughner with their excessive rants, others are just looking for a fight or a reaction or, like some, just looking to disrupt the website.

        The MSM media is probably the guiltiest of all if anybody wants to point fingers at anyone, but that won’t change anytime soon…just watch MSNBC and Keith Olberman if you can stand to listen to him.

      • kate8

        JeffH – Read Stan Smith’s link:

        http://www.eutimes.net/2011/01/top-us-federal-judge-assassinated-after-threat-to-obama-agenda/

        It’s exactly what I thought.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Dogma,
        Here’s another quote for you. “if they bring a knife, then we will bring a gun” Stated by good ole’ president Barack Obama when he was running for office!!! I don’t know about you, but that seems a little more harsh than a map with a bullseye on it, how about it???

      • JeffH

        kate8, my, my…now is that such a surprise? I suppose it(Rolls death) was just another coincidence????

      • kate8

        JeffH – Want more?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELBY7Ha9le0&feature=player_embedded

        Why is it that, even though we know better, we want to assume that news reporting is all above board? And that our leaders (Obama?) are telling us the truth?

        We need to realize that these guys are not playing games. They are out to bring America down and destroy us. THEY ARE SERIOUS. People have been murdered right and left (no pun intended). Look at all the “suicides” when Clinton was in office.

        They have us by the shorthairs now, and they aren’t about to let us get the upper hand. We are talking about truly diabolical beings here.

      • eddie47d

        Kate 8; David Ickes sounded correct on some things but nothing but a self pitting fear monger. That man is really hung up on himself.Me,Me,Me! I’m not sure if you were trying to get a conspiracy theory by liberals against Judge John Roll either. Conjecture solves nothing but feeds the hate. Judge Roll was a conservative who stood up for the rights of immigrants and received hundreds of death threats spurred on by anti-immigrant people. A local Tucson radio talk show host asked his listeners to take on Judge Roll. So if you want a conspiracy go ask some of those who made death threats. Now that would put this incident on the conservative side and would show they are willing to attack their own. I’m against most conspiracy theories so I’m only showing you how easy it is to throw this kind of information around and make hay about it.

      • oldtimeyman

        So, who started hateful dialog and sinister threats?

        May I submit this little tidbit uttered by a communist in 1947 speaking of the United States and other Christian nations:

        “We will offer the Christian world unheard of peace overtures, and these nations, stupid and decadent, will leap at the chance to be our friends; they will willingly cooperate in their own destruction. Then, when their guard is down, and they have gone to sleep, we will smash them with our clenched fist.”
        Dmitri Manuilsky in 1947
        [Dmytro Zakharovych Manuilsky] (1883-1959) Bolshevik/Soviet Diplomat

      • Dogma-Free

        Ummm…and he is who, exactly? Plus, is that communist dude even still alive today? No, I would say he isn’t.

        So…since we’re talking about how much we all abhor violence, let’s start talking about stiffer gun laws, shall we?

        It seems a pretty obvious solution: No guns, no more shootings.

        This has been a long time coming, and I would say it’s come to a head. To ignore this would be setting a precedent, and essentially saying that you promote even more violence and the shooting and murders of innocent people.

      • Robert Smith

        Posted: “It seems a pretty obvious solution: No guns, no more shootings.”

        Really… And how do you propose to implement such a crazy idea?

        What we need is more folks working on mental health, more folks working to end the despiration that can drive people to crime, and more freedom to enjoy what is currently criminal. Prohibitions just don’t work.

        Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        dogma,
        what about the fact that the guy that came out of the Walgreens store and helped subdue the guy had a gun in his pocket??? He’s not a cop, just a citizen and If the jerk that did the crime HAD broken loose and got the gun that they took, the guy from walgreens could have shot him! In fact, he actually said he would have!!

      • Bus

        The reaction to the killings was a great statement of where this country is headed. The person who pulled the trigger was the responsible person (nutty or not), it isn’t society, it isn’t the rhetoric, it isn’t his poor upbringing. THE INDIVIDUAL WHO COMMITS THE CRIME IS THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR COMMITTING THE CRIME!
        But now we have to look around for who put him up to it? A 22 year old loner??? I’d bet his main source of news? type information was John Stewart or Colbert. I doubt very much that he listened to Limbaugh or Hannity.

      • Dick Gazinia

        Ben Crystal’s article is an astonishing attempt to twist the truth. Shameless in fact. The hate speech from Beck, Hannity, that load, Limbaugh, O’Reilly, and some of the people on this site are pushing nut jobs over the edge. … and let’s not forget Palin’s cross hairs. They should all be proud.

        The gunman was hardly a liberal

      • Robert Smith

        Posted: “The gunman was hardly a liberal”

        He is a nut case. Out of 330,000,000 there are bound to be some.

        We need to learn to recognize them before they do harm. This guy had a lot of red flags flying but nobody paid attention. It’s just like the guy at the VA school. Nobody did much about the red flags that guy flew either.

        Rob

      • DaveH

        Quite frankly, Kinetic, I can see what the right-wingers might be getting upset about. They are tired of Liberal legislators taking their hard-earned money. So, am I. But what are the left-wingers upset about? The Liberal legislators not giving enough of that taken money to them? I see the left as a bunch of spoiled children who have no concept of reality, and just want what they want, damn morality.

      • DaveH

        A Society of Criminals:
        http://mises.org/daily/4125

      • Denniso

        Sure,some leftwing people go over the line as well, but all you have to do is listen to Michael Savage and Limbaugh,among many other rightwing blabbers, and you see where the problem originated. Savage has for several yrs called Democrats/liberals ‘vermin,’mentally ill’,'cockroaches’ and more w/ Limbaugh picking up on the same thing for the past few yrs. Feminists are called ‘Feminazis’, people who care for the earth are ‘environmental wackos’….Limbaugh has taken to calling liberalism a mental disorder and that Democrats are out to destroy the country.

        Many of us think that Cheny is evil and Bush was/is and idiot,and that their actions meant harm to the country and the world,but we never said they were intentionally trying to destroy the country,just that they were money driven and power hungry. I almost feel sorry for Bush for his incompetence and his inability to speak or form a cogent thought or sentence. Almost…

        The rightwing,including the tea party,has convinced millions of people,some very unstable, that the gov’t is inherently evil and out to get them,that Obama is a traitor and illegitimate and all liberals are enemies of decency and patriotism…Obama and the liberals have a master plan to create a one world gov’t and a Muslim or Mexican U.S…that Bill Clinton had Vince Foster killed for political purposes. The tea party people marching to protest rallies w/ their guns dangling to make a show of force…what was that about if not a threat of violence? Most liberals just think that most conservatives are ill informed,confused,selfish,cheap,narrow minded,bigoted,deluded and sometimes ignorant. There is a difference between calling people dumb or selfish, and threatening violence.

      • kate8

        DaveH – Amazing how the tune has changed since it’s been shown the the shooter was a Leftist. Now, instead of all the shouting for the heads of conservatives like Sarah Palin, we now hear how we ALL need to tone down the rhetoric. That’s the Left now walking with its tail between its legs.

        Abolishing free speech is not the answer, no matter how the Left would love to use this incident to make that happen. It seems that one of the shooter’s biggest complaints was illiteracy, and the dumbing down of the English language. Well, not long ago, I listened to a discussion on the radio about how programs like phonics was destroying the beauty and meaning of our language. Gee, maybe this guy heard that, too. Does this mean we have to shut down all discussion, for fear that some deranged soul might hear it and go off?

        There have always been unbalanced people. We can’t stop them. Who knows what issues might hack them off. The Left will use every incident to further induce us to accept total control out of fear for our safety. But life has never come with guarantees, and that is just how it is.

      • HFlashman

        Kate8 … where are you xcoming up with that fiction that the shooter was a “leftist” ? I see references to that from all the wacked Righties…but no proff whatsoever. Just another lie?

      • Vicki

        Kate8 is coming up with that “fiction” from sources far more reliable than the MSM :)

        http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

      • Dogma-Free

        I’d also like to see where, exactly, it has been ‘revealed’ that the shooter was a Leftist.

        haha…if it’s FAUX “news”, or even this questionable site (with its own blatantly obvious agenda), then you might as well not even bother posting it, because your source will have zero credibility.

        Besides that, it has been stated by posters here, that the murderer was into reading “Mein Kampf”, by Adolf Hitler, who himself was yet another far-right nutjob. By his actions, his love of Hitler’s work, and his obsession with guns, I’d say he had much in common with those on the political Right…not the Left, as some far-right loons/pundits would like you to believe.

      • Vicki

        And of course we have what the alleged shooter said on his youtube channel:
        ————————–
        “The Communist Manifesto” and Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” were among the favorite reading materials of Jared Lee Loughner,….(who) listed those tomes among his favorites on his YouTube channel.
        ————————–
        http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=248829

        Note I say “alleged” cause I was not there and have no real idea who shot whom. It does raise the interesting question how in Arizona so few people were armed at that incident.

      • eddie47d

        Kate 8 you have really fallen off of the apple wagon in your assumptions. Leftists have never called for the abolishment of free speech and you are dastardly ignorant for saying that. Please keep the rightwing swill out of the conversation.

      • Dan Burke

        When I first heard of the attack, I went to our other computer here in the house on Saturday. While my wife was still reading about the terrible shooting, I did a Google search to see if I could find out who the shooter was.

        So, if Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto is evidence of being a right wing nut, then I suppose the evidence is that this guy is right wing nut. Why is that important? Because those two are supposedly some of his favorite books.

        Strange how the rhetoric against government sounds the same whether from the right or the left. Sometimes, in the end, you really have to ask yourself if the problem is the means, and not the ends itself. For it is the means that shape the ends….

        And we don’t even really know if that is what motivated this guy. All we have our the opinions of everyone else. I have yet to read a statement by the shooter that he was “inspired” by the media on the right or the left. In fact, there is nothing to indicate that Mein Kampf or The Communist Manifesto had anything to do with this. This guy also apparently has a history with drugs and previous disagreement with the politician (over grammar?). Way too much here that we don’t know.

        I feel sad for the families affected.

        I want this man punished according to his actions, not his “hate” crimes.

        I want the current laws enforced. We do have laws to “punish” those who take another’s life. Or, at least, last I knew we did.

      • DaveH

        Vicki,
        I figure it is just a matter of time before the left points to Arizona’s carry freedom as a failure. We have that freedom, sure, but very few people that I know exercise it (unfortunately for the victims).

      • DaveH

        Also, I might add that, whether the victims are armed or not, the perpetrator, who knows what his plans are, has distinct advantage over those who are surprised.

      • Dan Burke

        Hitler was far right? Really. I thought his objection to the Communists was how they were doing things. I saw a summary once of the two philosophies point by point. They were almost identical except for stuff that related to the HOW.

        Traditional right versus left = tyranny versus anarchy. Or total government versus no government. Those of us “conservative, right wingers” typically don’t want anarchy. Rather, what we want is something just this side of no government. Enough government to maintain the Rule of Law.

        Modern right versus left = fascism versus communism. Notice that both modern forms of right versus left are total government options = tyranny. So it all depends on your “point of view.” The truth as seen from many of our modern society is that right versus left is fascism versus communism as if we are destined for one or the other and freedom is only found between them. The truth as seen from of us who have begun to learn from the past is that when you are focused on communism versus fascism you will get what you focus on. Since you focus on these two choices, you WILL get one of them. Both are tyranny. So we instead to focus on tyranny versus anarchy, the other standard for comparison. Again, both extremes are bad, but now we see a middle where there is freedom as opposed to focusing to two different faces of the same coin (tyranny).

        And when looking at history, here’s something I have learned over the past few years about fascism versus communism from history.

        Fascim appeared to have freedom. It was an illusion and you did what government told you or suffered accordingly.

        Communism appeared to have equality = everyone equally poor. In reality they still had the “haves” and “have nots.” They just had a lot more “have nots” who had a lot less than before….

        Neither choice offered freedom. We would consider both options tyranny and very left wing….

      • eddie47d

        Dan Burke; I was almost in total agreement with you until you played the leftist card at the end. You are right in saying tyranny is tyranny no matter who is taking away your freedom. Yet you failed to realize that right wingers can also take away your freedoms and push for their agenda. Hitlers hatred for Jews,Homos,left wing commies, for Aryan rights, against Jehovah Witnesses,union members and Catholics who disagreed with him put him squarely in the right wing camp. Hitler also also wanted law and order no matter who had to suffer because of it. Nixon strongly pushed that agenda. Now Stalin didn’t directly push for law and order he just sent his goons out to kill anybody who wasn’t for the Party. Evil is evil no matter who is pushing it on the populace and Hitler and Stalin are top DOGS.

      • Dan az

        For all of the lefties that dont want to admit that one of there own is responsible. I give you the facts,which is who taught him at the school and who payed for the school and the person that set the influence for his belief’s.
        http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=249429
        this is what happens when you try to change history and the way our children think.So yes I blame the schools but mostly I blame the left for their indoctrination attempts at covering up the true history of our nation by pushing their politically correct attitude instead of the truth.Look at the truth which I gave you on the site and then complain to me that its not the truth I dare you!

      • DaveH

        Eddie,
        If I was as clueless as you are, I wouldn’t be posting any comments on this board. I guess you would have to be somewhat intelligent to be embarassed by your ignorant comments:
        http://www.businessinsider.com/clyburn-free-speech-2011-1

      • eddie47d

        What’s the matter Dave H. are you afraid you can’t yell fire in a crowded theater anymore? You and you cronies will be so depressed that you can’t belittle and mock others anymore. Don’t worry Dave you will be able to make your quirky put downs and name calling so chill out.

      • http://www.kjnf.net Jimmimac

        kinetic1 please indicate where you saw a right wing rant claiming to want to kill people, or anything near that, then look again at all the the left wing deranged rhetoric the left wing loon squads rant about constantly, Obama if they bring a knife we bring a gun, so he saw the movie starring the former James Bond in the gangster movie where he told Elliot Ness if they bring a knife we bring a gun, original no, cowardly left yes!

      • Les

        Although what you say has merit, Jer, you miss the point completely. Ben is pointing out the extreme hypocrisy of the left and their political opportunism at all cost. The nutbag murderer was one of their own; a leftwing, entitlement, victim, scumsucking, leech; as are the media heads he listened to and the political form he supported. Their talking heads and leaders cry out for violence, murder, censorship and the taking of rights; then turn around and blame it on the patriots who pay the bills. It’s time for Truth!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        But Les thats the point. Mr Crystal is denouncing people on the left for inflammatory rhetoric and trying to blame this incident on conservatives or republicans. But what he is doing is basically suggesting those on the left or liberals are responisble. He even titles the article unintentional coconspirators suggesting that those on the left are somehow involved or guilty of helping bring this incident about. That kind of statment is no different then people saying Sarah Palin or conservatives are unintentional coconspirators. Mr Crystal is commiting the very action he’s criticizing.

      • Robert Smith

        And then the extreme right nut jobs take advantage of the situation.

        The Westboro Baptist Church is going to protest the funeral of the 9-year-old little girl murdered in Tucson Shooting.

        How christian of them.

        Rob

      • libertytrain

        I think perhaps Christ would be the first to be offended by calling them Christian – and I doubt if there’s a poster on this site, on either side, that holds what they do to be of Christianity.

      • Vigilant

        While the texture of the national discourse has become decidedly coarser over the last few years, it’s both premature and harmful to attribute blame to one side or another. Both sides are guilty of inflammatory rhetoric, but stoking the fires with gasoline against either the right or the left is dead wrong. Nothing of value is added to the conversation but encouragement to perpetuate the left vs. right blame game ad infinitum.

        There are perhaps more than a few people out there who are either on the edge of sanity and/or who are full blown psychopathic personalities. We don’t blame Jody Foster for the attempt on President Reagan’s life, do we?

        Mr. Crystal, your diatribe falls short in a number of areas, e.g.:

        Accountability: by implying that the left wing media shares some of the responsibility for the rampage, you are buying into the very “it takes a village” mentality that society is responsible for the catalog of ills that beset us. If you are willing to imply that, then you, sir, are no libertarian. We as individuals are responsible and accountable for our actions.

        Blame game: by jumping into the fray as soon and with as little factual basis as the MSM regarding the man’s motivation to do what he did, you are just as guilty as they of offering speculation alone as a means to inflame passions. Before you assign blame, ask the question first as to where were the immediate family and friends in this whole process. Who could have noticed his allegedly bizarre behavior but did nothing about it?

        Cognitive thinking vs. emotion: in being long on emotion and short on cautious analysis, you engage in the same sort of the behavior as the political forces you wish to demonize. In case you don’t remember, the left is often characterized as shooting from the emotional hip without a thought for intelligent substantiation that comes from rational thought.

    • dstk

      yes, you are so right.
      “That being said I feel I must criticize Mr Crystal for choosing to denounce slanderous and inflammatory rhetoric while using it himself” and he says it for profit!

    • Pathfinder

      Had this shooter been shown to be a conservative republican would you be making such disclaimers ?? I do not think so. Now that it is already known that the liberal left has been encourageing violence, you wish to tar the right with blame for what your own rhetoric has wrought. How many murderers like Bill Ayers are mentors for presidential candidates on the right ?? NONE !!

      • eddie47d

        Ben Crystal is the sick one and lays all of the blame on the left. When it’s the right who has been upfront with hateful slogans ,cross hairs,and wicked posters at least in the last 3 years. Ben ought to talk about those who want Obama taken out with their 2nd Amendment rights. Too much silence on that issue from Ben yet he brings up Bill Ayers who committed his deed 45 years ago and turned his life around. It’s okay to bring up the past but not when you are ignoring the present. Bill Ayers could have killed someone yet he didn’t and there is little excuse for his deed. Yet many on this site advocate violence against the government and are willing to kill many. Ben ought to take a long look in the mirror and be more factual in his reporting. The Rhetoric definitely needs to be toned down on both sides so are you listening Ben Crystal and Keith Olbermann.

      • thundertone

        Eddie, it’s this left against right that fuels this sort of crap…if people/politicians started telling the damn truth which lies dead in the middle between the two, we wouldn’t have this kind of problem and more unity of the people of this lazy ass and blind nation of people!!

      • Lomax

        The author of the above article is correct in what he says, however I suspect that this kid may well be the victim of recent onset schizophrenia. He is at the right for that sort of thing, and reading his writing makes me think that may well be the case. When a competent psychiatrist gets hold of him, which I hope is what happens, then maybe we will find out.

      • kate8

        I had a terrible thought. Aside from the obvious intent of the Left to villify the Right, and incite more anger against them coming from the already deliberately inflamed Left, there is another frightening implication here.

        The PTB are using the time-tested rulebook for conquest of a nation, play by play.

        What have most all the shooting sprees had in common, aside from leftist leanings of the shooter? They’ve all been mentally unbalanced and have had trouble living in society, and have taken medication.

        Who were among the first to be rounded up by socialist regimes? THE MENTALLY IMPAIRED.

        Is it possible that part of the intent of these events is to justify the rounding up of those with mental disability in the name of public safety? They are, after all, a major money drain on the social system.

        As far as I’m concerned, everything they do is suspect on many levels. They have admitted themselves that they will let no crisis go to waste when it comes to pushing their agenda.

        They have come a long way in corrupting our morality and desensitising our populace, especially the youth, toward killing those who are inconvenient.

        Obama’s following Hitler’s methodology. I believe he’s trying to set us up for the elimination of the elderly, the debilitated, the mentally impaired, and…conservatives. All who are inconvenient to them.

        Watch what the other hand is doing.

      • Vigilant

        kate8, I’m not as willing as you to jump to a conspiracy theory yet. Wackos will always be with us, and they will always do terrible things. It’s hard to imagine this mental case as anything more than a deranged nut job acting out his rage.

      • kate8

        Vigilant – Ther Germans, including the Jews, said the same kind of things. They didn’t believe anything evil was afoot, either.

        It’s time we wake up, before it’s too late. If you look deep enough you will see much to implicate that something evil is INDEED afoot.

        Don’t make the mistake of thinking it can’t happen here. Listen to the rhetoric of the leftist groups talking about Alinsky, Pivvens…about collapsing America top down, bottom up, inside out…about inciting anger toward conservative America…And don’t lose sight of the real purpose behind Obamacare.

        If we wait until we see our neighbors being hauled off, or have the civilian forces at our door, it will then be too late.

      • kate8
      • Robert Smith

        kate8 says: “Is it possible that part of the intent of these events is to justify the rounding up of those with mental disability in the name of public safety? They are, after all, a major money drain on the social system.”

        What would YOU do with those who are mentally ill? Reagan dumped them on the streets of America. Is that our solution?

        What we need is common sense where mentit isn’t a perminant stigma to have had a mental illness and made sure folks get treatment.

        So kate, if you don’t want to get them treatment, and you don’t want them on the street just what do you want?

        Rob

      • kate8

        Robert Smith – Where did I say I don’t want them to get treatment? That’s not the reason Hitler rounded them up. They were eliminated.

        Believe me, this is an issue close to my heart. I have a daughter who suffered brain damage from advanced Lyme disease before it could be diagnosed, further aggravated by fluorosis. I have tried to get her every kind of help I could, but she is an adult and has chosen to remain on medication, which takes away her beautiful personality.

        She was in a home for the mentally disabled for a time. I came to love those dear, damaged people. As many of them are on SSI, this makes them a target for removal because of the cost. Actually, they already are, because the heavy medications cause severe obesity and heart and liver damage.

        Don’t put words in my mouth or tell me how I feel. What I don’t want is for them to be hurt. I’d go first.

      • Dan az

        Hey kate
        It looks as if the true agenda is in the makings,one lone gunman and the nation will pay by taking their guns rights.
        http://www.eutimes.net/2011/01/us-congress-readies-new-gun-control-bill-in-wake-of-arizona-massacre/
        Every time there is one nut job that goes beserk they try to pass new laws to take the protection of the 2nd amendment from us.

      • crystal

        Like when Obama called Conservatives “enemies” or when Obama told Republicans to sit in the back seat. Maybe you mean when Obama made fun of the “Tea Party Patriots” by mimicking the holding of a teabag in front of other Americans where he knew he could get a good laugh because he didnt’ take the “Tea Party” seriously. Or was it when Obama refused to listen to the Republicans or let them in on meetings stating that “Their side lost the election.”

        Obama has fueled more than any one person on any side.

      • DaveH
      • DaveH
      • always right

        Eddie, IF (big “if”) bill ayers has actually “turned his life around” will that bring back the dead cops? How is he any less a dirty commie now than he was then? He’d just chaged tactics so fools like you will love him. Eddie boy, you don’t like heated rhetoric. I think that’s great! So, since that doesn’t sing to you, let’s try this. You’re a disgusting, festering pile of leftist crap. Why don’t you go to over demoncrapic underground or the the daily kos, where you belong and leave the humans alone?

      • eddie47d

        No cops died at the hands of Ayers so that makes you a liar. If he had he would still be in prison. Your mind is poisoned and there isn’t much I can do about that so your lies must come natural. Maybe you should be more concerned about conspirator McVeigh who did kill 168 people and Federal agents. Your mind is a terrible thing to waste.

      • Robert Smith

        always right says: “How is he any less a dirty commie now than he was then?”

        What would you do with him? Are you suggesting that Americans can NEVER change their lives?

        If the alleged left “piles” can’t change what will you do with them?

        Rob

      • marvin

        eddie47d
        i think if you would open a history book,you would find this is nothing new we the american people [mabe not you]are a caring nation and give freely to all that need,you are intitled to your apinion,but not your own facts,you have a president that has said ,you disagree with me i will get in your face,reward your friends and punish your enimys. repubs can rie in back of buss[most repubs are white],cops are stuped,just looking for who,s ass to kick,i am a citizen of the world,you bring a knife i bring a gun,i won set down and shut up,to your way of thinking lincoln,the kennedy bros,reagan ,the list goes on ,is was all right wing people like palin beck hanity fault,you just can not fix stuped people ,that open mouth and insert foot then start blameing others ,if their were a poster boy for abortion,you would be it

      • kate8

        The lefty’s will continue to try to spin this one. It doesn’t change the fact that it is Obama’s minions who are calling the loudest for violent overthrow. What about the youth brigades he’s firing up and training in the use of military firearms as a civilian force? Against whom? Surely not the Left, so that means conservatives are in his crosshairs, as they his opposition.

        The “president” has done more to inflame, divide, and marginalize than any in history. He has stopped just short of criminalizing conservatism, and that will be next. He does everything possible to provoke outrage among those who believe in protecting and defending our Constitution.

        I love this article, Mr. Crystal, and we need to keep them coming. It’s time the Left gets called on their tactics, and gets a taste of it in return.

        The people are becoming more and more aware. Truth will prevail.

      • oldtimeyman

        Well said, Kate.

      • Stan Smith
      • kate8

        Thanks for that link. All you leftys check here for reports that the shooter was a committed LEFTIST.

      • eddie47d

        What violent overthrow Kate 8? How about some references on that? Seriously I have only heard that from the right.I haven’t heard that from the left in over 30 years. Please enlighten.

      • Dogma-Free

        Kate, you sound like you’re just about ready for a tin foil hat.

        I would say *if* there is a hidden agenda, it has nothing to do with right or left – it has to do with the classes.

        Eliminate the middle class, and then you just have the ‘haves’, and the ‘have nots’…and the ‘haves’ can then tell the ‘have nots’ what to do. Or else.

        Now, it would stand to reason why the republicans (including their minions, like FAUX “news”, and Bobby Livingston’s site and sisterhood here) would want to push this, as traditionally, the republicans have always been the party that catered to the wealthy…who, in turn, would fund the campaigns of the republican candidates who looked after them the best.

      • Robert Smith

        kate8 says: ” What about the youth brigades he’s firing up and training in the use of military firearms as a civilian force?”

        Really… Quite frankly I think that is just another example of the BIG LIE.

        BTW, have you been following the trial of an ex-cop who had a kid blow his own head off with an Uzi at his event? That wasn’t a left wing event. You can count on that.

        Rob

      • http://www.kjnf.net Jimmimac

        eddie47d whatever it is your smoking eddie its time to stop, the right has no comparison to the left wing hate that is permeating the air waves Obama is a racist and its in his book, the left wing is out of control in America, the jokes on the left actually have been calling for riots and revolutions, have you heard that on the right, I will answer that for you “NO”! So get your head straight and stop smoking the drapes!

      • eddie47d

        What is your source on that. I don’t get onto far left sites so I may have missed that. So far I haven’t heard anything about a revolution except from the right saying “Take back this country”.

      • HFlashman

        Same here Eddie. The only sites I’ve read where it has been stated time and again about ‘revolution’ and “loack and load’ etc etc are the Right wing sites where the number of nuts rival a Planeter’s peanut factory in number. And i love how they say (Kate8 etc) the shooter was a leftist, and then cite Right wing blogs as “proof’ of this.

        Heck…no one on the “left” have I seen say the guy was anything but a raving lunatic, yet the Right tries to steer off the subject that perhaps their rantings about guns, implications and insinuations about rebellion, packing guns to rallies, the hate and vitriol spewed in any discussion…has nothing to do with the atmosphere we have in this country today.

        Jeesh … and here I had thought that perhaps today, becuase of the tragedy in Tuscon…maybe that would cause a stage where social polite discourse could take place. I should have known better. They have no shame ..

      • Patriot38

        Most of those on this blog, or rant, or whatever you want to call it, remind me of the MSM. I have always marveled at how the MSM pounces upon the scene of some event, breaks into programming with their “Breaking News” and then stands there yammering about it and informing the world of everything he doesn’t know; a complete waste of time and an unnecessary interruption of the program in progress.

      • http://www.kjnf.net Jimmimac

        you hit the nail on the head Pathfinder, these lefties are always looking for ways to tar the right with their hate they can not take responsibility for their own actions, I discovered the reason, I read an article that the medical profession has discovered that liberals have a brain virus, not making this up, this virus eats the reciprocal lobe that is the part that helps with reason, right from wrong, the picture is coming clearer every day these people are truly sick!

      • Robert Smith

        J says: “reciprocal lobe”

        Ain’t no such thing.

        Why do you present us with outright lies?

        Rob

      • Dan az

        Hey jimmimac
        There is proof of that besides the obvious try this site!
        http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=116644
        So sorry lebies its a fact!

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Pathfinder:

        Denniso’s mention of Clinton for some reason set me to thinking back to that era. I suddenly remembered what happened the last time the democrats lost their control in the House, i.e. 1994. What happened shortly after the Republicans took over in January of 1995? Oklahoma City with another whacko killing many innocent people. The democrats immediately began blaming conservatives and their “inflammaatory rehtoric”.

        Fast forward to 2010 / 2011 and what hajppens shortly after the Republicans take over the House?

        Also, I heard that during the democrat vote on choosing their leader Cong. Giford voted AGAINST Pelosi. A few days later the Congreswoman is shot. Hmmmm.

        The congresswoman had many conservative leanings and was shot by a liberal.

        Oh, and speaking of the violence instituted by conservative Sarah Palin, remember all the women and children killed by Bill Clinton at Waco? He had them shot and burned to death by our government, for their own good I guess.

        It has been stated that all this recent vitriol and violence is bad because it upsets the government. Well, our founders believed that it is a VERY GOOD thing for the politicians to be scared of the electorate rather than the people being scared of the government.

        Last week when our founding document was read into the Congressional Record the liberals went absolutely mad. Our country’s constitution to liberals is akin to holdingup a Cross in front of a vampire.

        All just food for thought.

      • kate8

        Old Henry – The day this happened, one of my first thoughts was, ‘this is a message to Congress of what would happen if any of them were entertaining notions of breaking ranks with Pelosi/Reid and actually listening to the people’.

        Ms. Gifford did that.

        It worked to bring presidents in line. We’ll see how they run.

      • kate8

        GOP already caving on spending.

      • Denniso

        You two are off the edge of sanity and into a fantasy world manufactured by people like Beck,Limbaugh and Savage. You really do need to read some real books and learn to think independently and logically. I hope you don’t vote or go out in public.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I assure you pathfinder. Whatever this lunatics beliefs I would say the same thing to this article. My point is rhetoric is applicable to anyone and everyone from any side of the spectrum. But more to the point this isnt the time to be political and its not an issue to politicize. I criticize those who pin blame on conservatives and I criticize those who pin blame on liberals. The fault lies with the deranged killer and whatever disease or drug that made him think killing helpless innocent people was the way to change things.

    • BigBadJohn

      As I read around here all of the time

      “lock and load”

      • Robert Smith

        Remember all the advocacy to put gays on the front lines to “solve the problem?”

        Rob

      • kate8

        R S – As expected, you had to insert your favorite topic, the gay issue. Near and dear to your heart, eh?

        Sheesh.

      • DaveH

        It’s amazing to me that we’ve come to the point where it’s okay for somebody to put their hands in our pockets, but not okay for us to extract their hands. In the twisted Liberal world, that is an act of violence.

      • kate8

        Idiocy.

        The Left doesn’t even bother with metaphors. You guys just call outright for murder and assassinations.

        Do you honestly think that squashing free speech will stop unbalanced people from committing acts such as this? How, then, do you explain the terrible violence that occurs in truly oppressed countries? Crushing dissent only breeds more violence, BBJ. Including from the government itself.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        kate8:

        Remember the books written and the movies made about assasinating George W. Bush? Where was the leftist outrage? Where was Sen. Dick Turbin with hs admonitions?

      • eddie47d

        Kate, James Earl Ray was no lefty so what in the heck are you talking about? Leftists are no more prone to violence than righties.

      • smithington

        Edddy, try putting your fist in your mouth for 47 minutes.

      • smithington

        Yes, I said 47 minutes…that should do it.

      • smithington

        1…2…3…are you being a good boy?

      • smithington

        I want you to want me…that should distract you from your foolishness. I am a Harvard graduate, please mess with me.

      • eddie47d

        No thanks Smith…,You sound a little too gay for me. “I want You”. No way dude.

      • oldtimeyman

        BBJ. Is that you? Do you remember newsman1994?

    • CJ

      Mr. Crystal, how did you work it to have the first posters to your article prove your point? The left wingers are the first to point the finger and complain when others fight back against their negative accusations. Liberals, here’s a suggestion, quit point the finger and prove you’re right by setting the example to take the higher road. Until I SEE actions of higher moral ground, I’ll know you have no desire to make the situation better, as you silently create the environment that leads to this kind of action just so you can stand back and say… “see, I told you”.

      • libertytrain

        well said.

      • Karolyn

        Jeremy did not point the finger! He pointed to EXTREMISTS on both sides! Why is it “you people” cannot see the truth when it is spelled out for you! Just the fact the Crystal pointed the finger at the left is incitement. Why did he not show the inflammatory rhetoric of conservatives as well? To keep you guys mad and keep his job! There is no need for this at all, and you are part of the problem.

      • ValDM

        Karolyn,
        Care to cite a few instances????????

      • Robert Smith

        Lock and load…

      • Robert Smith

        Actually there are doctors who are dead from the guns of the right wing.

        And then there was the Olympic bombing and bombings and bombings at clinics.

        I’ve seen some around here try to justify it because those doctors are called “murderers” by clergy and those who want to insight violence.

        Rob

      • crystal

        Abortion was created to murder black children. I don’t give a $//$%#% about abortionist.

      • Karolyn

        Whoa, Crystal! You need help!

      • eddie47d

        How many abortionists did Eric Randolph kill at the Olympics?

      • Dogma-Free

        Whoa, Crystal…way to take a thinly-veiled shot at ‘the blacks’ by insinuating that the only women getting abortions are black women…or something along those lines…

        How interesting.

      • castaway

        You are dead wrong, because I have been reading and listening to this [offensive word removed] ever since the democrats were no longer in power. They spent millions on Bush bashing, and that of the G.O.P.. They own the lamestream media and that is all you here from the media is how the right is this and that. The real problem is with the left, who cannot stand not being in the limelight. Yet you lefties stand for no morality and anything that makes you happy goes, Spend until you are broke, and then blame it on the other side,and you want everything done for you. You are all a bunch of losers. How can you be anything but, as you have no constitution, or morals.

      • Bruce D.

        What you say makes a lot of sense castaway. The left spin has been in full force for a long time. What they are saying is that their spin is the norm and anyone who opposes it is extreme and prone to incite violence. The problem is they went unopposed for too long and had their way for too many years. Now that people recognize what they have done and what they are trying to do they do not like it.

      • Robert Smith

        Hey castaway, you say: ” They spent millions on Bush bashing, and that of the G.O.P..”

        Remember how one of Chaney’s minions was CONVICTED of outing a CIA agent?

        Remember how Bush let the Binladens go immediately free after 911? No questioning or anything. How irresponsible is that?

        Trashing the economy…

        Lots of stuff was done by Bush and his cronies.

        Rob

      • Steve

        CASTAWAY, WHEN YOU’RE RIGHT, YOU’RE RIGHT!

      • http://www.kjnf.net Jimmimac

        ain’t that the truth, but the loony left will never admit it, as I saw an article that explains these deranged loons the medical profession has done mri’s on thousands of liberals and have determined that they have a brain virus that destroys the part of the brain that creates reasoning, that should tell you why we have Olberman and all the Olberman wannabe’s

      • eddie47d

        Jim..I heard just the opposite 3 weeks ago and even posted it on this site. Mees thinks you are a goofy liar.

      • Anti Government

        And who is doing all the killing??? It is not the left. The violence comes ONLY from the right. I will only agree that both sides need to tone down the rhetoric but violence is only from the right.

      • DaveH

        You are wearing some major blinders, Anti.
        I’ll show you mine:
        The Holodomor, The Holocaust, and the Cultural Revolution.
        Now show me yours.

      • Steve

        It’s unbelievable! This nutjob was a lefy leaning homo whacko who spent his time on lefy whacko websites and now the rest of the lefty whackos are trying to blame this situation on the right? You guys wouldn’t know the truth if it hit you in the head. Shut up already! You are blind because you don’t know the TRUTH! You reject the truth and defend the other side. Your side is the side opposed to the truth. Here it is……Jesus is the truth and you don’t know Jesus, do you? You wonder what the heck I’m talking about because you don’t get it. But I didn’t think you would anyway.

      • American Citizen

        Uh, I believe the shooter is a leftist.

      • marvin

        Anti Government
        you just can not fix stuped and people like you it,s in your make up blame blame blame bush bush bush, not my fault,not my fault, not my fault,go back under that rock you been hiding under,you have had your head up your liberal ass to long that ass gas has worped your mind

      • Vigilant

        Anti Government: “The violence comes ONLY from the right.”

        Thanks for the insight, I didn’t know that Nidal Hassan was a right wing wack job.

        As a leftie, your monicker is very appropriate.

      • DamnYankee32

        Dear Anti: Hate to inform you that it is not true that violence ONLY comes from the right. If one, whether right or left, is a criminal or mentally-deficient, they can ALWAYS find a weapon, whether a gun, a knife, or a baseball bat, to kill someone. Whether rhetoric, on either or both sides, is responsible has yet to be proved.No one should jump to any conclusion before ALL the facts are in. “Opinions are like a$$$holes, everyone has one”.

      • DaveH

        Karolyn is trying to incite violence by pointing the finger at the “Conservatives”.

      • kate8

        DaveH – It’s becoming all too transparent. Further inflaming Left-wing nutjobs against the Right is a fringe benefit here. I do believe that is part of the ploy.

      • eddie47d

        …and Dave H. is still playing the Hitler card to incite hatred against the left. Hitler was a right wing master of deceit and it seems like Dave is using some of his tactics. Take your snow job to Arizona for they could use the moisture.

      • Dan az

        So eddiee
        Hitler is a conservative Really where did you read that?Could you give me the site?I must of been asleep then so please give me the site!

      • kate8

        Karolyn – The Left jumped to blaming the Right before the ambulance ever made it to the hospital.

        Now that the guy’s been shown to be a Lefty, we’re supposed to stop pointing fingers.

        As far as I’m concerned, all bets are off. The truth must be told, whether you guys like it or not. Holler on. We won’t be silenced any longer.

      • JeffH

        kate8, I’ve taken that stance for a long time now, the gloves have been off.

      • Karolyn

        Kate, I could care less if the guy was a lefty or righty. According to what I’ve read, he had leanings in both directions. He is nuts. I agree with many talking here that it is a problem of both the left and the right. I could also care less about these lefties who are out for blood and “taking advantage”. I have no use for them or those on the other extreme.

      • kate8
      • HFlashman

        The EU times ?

        Next Kate you’ll be citing the Weekly World News as a reliable source….lol

      • JeffH

        HFlashman, sure beats your sources…none! OOPS, Olberman, Maddow, Mathews, MSNBC, Daily Kos, Huff N Toke…??? Want to add to it, be my guest.

      • HFlashman

        OK…when I read the article one thought kept running through my mind…”who is this lunatic” ? i had a difficult time believing even Crystal could display the lunacy and far from reality excuses he writes. However, as has been the case since I began reading these articles, Crystal came through with his usual rantings and inflamatory accusations.

        In all the months I’ve read this board, I cannot recall anyone labelled ‘liberal’ here has suggested violence. Yet… count the number of times EACH DAY it comes from the so-called self styled ‘patriots’. “Lock and Load’ was one statement today fer chrissakes !

        I have never read the Daily Kos. Never. I have heard of few times where extremist violence has been used against the Right (please feel free to cite sources…not just make unsupported claims,,,,but cite sources). And I flat out guarantee, you can cite one, or ten or maybe twenty instances the Left has come close to urging violence…and I can cite hundreds and close to thousands from the Right.

        What occurred in Tuscon was the rsult of a lunatic. Neither Right nor Left…he is flat out nuts. And if there wa ever a case for snuffing someone, he is it (though for me..I’d rather he be given a life sentence and every day for the remainder of his life at a set time the cell door opens and there stands a guard with a certain shaped utensil saying ‘bend over Dude’..)

        But how many here when they heard the news and the shock of sadness of the tragedy enveloped them…how many had as one thought “egads, I hope it wasn’t anyone connected to the TP or the Right”?

        That’s where the Rush’s, the Hannity’s, the Beck’s etc have brought you. That’s the image where accepting and cheering folks who pack guns to rallies has created of your movement. That’s what the constant barrage of hate and bigotry has wrought. Where Palin can place gunsights targeting Democratic seats “targeted” for action as she spouts her ‘lock and load’ garbage.

        Everyone recognizes the shooter in Tuscon as a raving lunatic. Everyone.

        But as well, recognize where the rhetoric has brought the TPers and the extremist Right. That’s your image you created with glee. And unless changed, it’s your shame.

      • castaway

        Actually it is shameless people like you that have brought us Patriots to the point of a “good ole fashioned ass kicking contest”. You all want to run this country into the ground, and have no respect for the constitution or the bill of rights unless you can find a verse in it to support some of your socialist ideas. So now you have brought this Republic, not a Democracy to the brink, and you can all see the end coming. I sure hope you like violence , because you ain’t seen nothin yet. You lefties reap what you sow and now let the violence begin. It is what you really wanted, so you can (you think) bring out marshal law and call all the Patriots terrorists,to be locked up for attacks on the USA. Well Flashman you are going to [offensive term removed] when you find out how many of us there really are that are patriots. No, we are not out to kill,like that wacko just did, but we are ready for a fight. On that day, if you are hiding in the closet,we will drag you into the street kicking and screaming. THe gist of it is if you lefties really want to destroy the America we all love, then prepare for a fight.

      • Robert Smith

        Castaway posted: “You all want to run this country into the ground, and have no respect for the constitution or the bill of rights unless you can find a verse in it to support some of your socialist ideas.”

        Show us in the Constitution of the United States where your god is appointed to run America.

        It’s WE THE PEOPLE…

        Not castaway’s god. That’s where your huberus is. Quite frankly when I get threatened in the mane of some god it’s the person who is trying to force THEIR religion upon me; I don’t see or hear their god. But the people, that’s another story.

        Rob

        Rob

      • DaveH

        I have yet to see a Christian force their belief on anybody. But I have seen plenty of Liberal Atheists force their religion on the Christians. Note that I say “Liberal Atheists” as I am also an Atheists, but I am an Atheist who believes in the kind of Freedom that our Founders believed in. Something Liberals know little about.

      • kate8

        castaway – Isn’t it amazing that when the Left loses power, they cry about wanting to be heard and ‘can’t we all get along’, and how we need to ‘compromise’ and ‘stop the divisive rhetoric’.

        Well, what happens as soon as they take power? ‘Shut up’, ‘you lost’, ‘get to the back of the bus’…literally, shut out of every discussion.

        They dish it out, but they JUST CAN’T TAKE IT.

        No, the violence is NOT coming from both sides. It’s coming FAR MORE OFTEN from the LEFT, as they are the ones who not only advocate it, and call for it, but actually train for it.

        Well, they’ve overplayed their hand, and we’re mad as hell. They think they can continue to run roughshod over conservative America? I think they’ll soon see that we’re done rolling over. Talkin’ part’s over. We’re ready to stand firm, and we’re done being jerked around. Back off, or be thrown off.

        It is YOU, on the LEFT, who’ve split America, by design. What you mean by ‘getting along’ can only mean ‘stop fighting us and roll over’. I’m here to tell you, the answer is NO! NO MORE.

        You’ve gone and pushed us too far. You’ve awakened another sleeping giant.

      • Dick Gazinia

        Castaway – You need professional help… mental help.

        Anyone who wants to drag neighbors into the street and beat them for disagreeing with them is truly ill. That’s what the Naziz did in the 1930s.

      • Dan az

        Hey kate
        I luv it when you get mad!I think it scares the hell out of them! Keep up the good fight girl!

      • Angel

        Well said. What is scary is that this shooter spouts the same “government is coming for you and your guns” nonsense that alot of people here believe as well.

      • Vigilant

        You hide and watch, Kenny. Before you know it, we’ll see another cry for limitations on gun ownership.

      • Dan az
      • DaveH

        Show me a single event where Hannity or Beck have called for violence, Flashdunce. It shouldn’t be hard, as there are hundreds of their videos on the internet. You are good at fabricating facts, not so good at being factual.
        The facts are that the Liberals want to help themselves to the money of others. Right there they are breaking the moral law “Thou Shalt not Steal”. So, now that we know that don’t abide by morality, why would we put anything past them?
        And how do Liberals help themselves to other peoples’ money? Through their Big Government gang. Why do people let the Government take their money? Because they know the violent results of refusing that taking.
        The real question is “Do you really know that, and are pretending innocence?”, or are you just plain ignorant?

      • Dan az

        Dave I think we know the answer to that one!

      • Searcher

        Flashman
        Your little “bend over dude” statement, would to me, be considered a violent act. So you are condoning violence and torture? (or is it just a fantasy of yours?)
        There is plenty of vitriol on both sides. Neither side has an exclusive on the nasty rhetoric. It just seems that the liberal side has more trouble remembering it when it comes from their side.
        According to the liberal side, I am a potential terrorist (since I’m ex military) and the president of our country has labelled me as an enemy, since I oppose much of his agenda. Ex-speaker Pelosi called me unAmerican since I was against their ridiculous healthcare plan. I hardly consider those statements to promote a reasonable response. The left has a penchant for demonizing anyone that doesn’t agree with their ideas. They love to name-call. If you do not agree with them, you are either unamerican, an enemy, a racist, a homophobe (a word that was made up BY them), a crazy, a terrorist, and any number of other names they like to use. I don’t find the namecalling to be a good way to promote reasonable discourse, and a lot of us out here are tired of it.
        In this instance, the “crazy”, the violent one, was one of their own, but they seem to want to do anything they can to remove any possibilty of THEM perhaps sharing in responsibility of possibly inciting this young man to action. I just wonder why they think that as a lberal, he would even have been LISTENING to the non-liberal side.

      • Dogma-Free

        Would that be torture, or just ‘enhanced interrogation’…?

        Oh, right…it’s the same thing. My bad.

      • HFlashman

        I’m sorry guys. Searcher and Dogma..let me rephrase that so y’all won’t be conflicted in what the guys did…once convicted (if convicted as he is presumed innocent), I believe his punishment for his crime if not the death penalty should be delivery of ice cream and cake with catered meals …

        My sncere apologies if my opposition to holding people without trial, charges, or observance of the gaurantees under the Bill of Rights as well as opposition to state sponsored torture confused you as to my stated desires for punishment for the shooter’s deeds.

      • always right

        Glad you asked, flash.
        http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2010/11/it-begins-leftist-icon-calls-for-violent-socialist-war-against-tea-partiers/

        Then there was all the stuff through the 60′s and early 70′s, the burning of banks, ROTC buildings, Kent State (where they threw rocks and bottles at the NG troops and righteously, got shot and killed), the vandalism by the left of school buildings, the bombings and murders of the like of bill ayers, the Demoncrapic national convention in Chicago, the riots at the WTO, Watts riot, Detroit riots, Rodney King riots (those sure weren’t conservatives in the streets nor were those inciting same conservatives); the list goes on and on.

      • kate8

        always right – EXACTLY.

        We’re sick of the lies. We’re sick of their acts of violence, which they then blame us for.

        The greatest weapon is TRUTH. The light is shining, and they’re finally being exposed for the lying hypocrites they are.

      • HFlashman

        Always Right (if a name was ever a misnomer..). Did you fact check that blogger’s claims? Seriously check it? Didn’t think so. And you’re equating the anti war times of Vietnam as ‘proof’ the “left’ is violent? Give me a break. And such mindset you display is the reason as i cited…to your shame the country has the image of the TPers and the extreme Right as violence minded and irrational to the point of being dangerous.

      • Steve

        Flashman, you make a great point. The guy is a whacko. Ok, so now tell me why the left is attacking the right on this situation? Let me help you out. It’s what they do. They distort the truth. They attack and distort what they don’t understand and the truth has no place in them. That’s the way it is and if you defend these lying clowns in the MSM then you are a gutless lying clown too. Thank God for FOX News! The most trusted name in news. They are good people.

      • HFlashman

        Steve:

        Several points you should be aware of.

        1. There have been studies 9i belive at least two0 which show that viewers of FOXMcNews are the least informed and have the least amount of accurate knowledge than any other segment of the population…amazingly enough, one had said viewers more misinformed than people who didn’t read newspapers or watch news on tv.

        2. From everything folks post on this board, take a gander at whom is dostorting what. Let’s see…so far todfay i visited three ‘sources” cited as “proof’ of what the writer was ranting … Guess what/ LOL … yep. None of it close to being true. fact is, one tried using a BLOGGER’S statement as ‘proof’ the shooter was a “leftist’. Another tried using the EU Times..which is akin to using the Weekly World news as a relable source.

        Fact is..time after time on this board all one has to do is check the ‘sources” cited…and the lies and distortions are easily exposed.

        As well..people who comprise the average TPer or wacked Conservative Right don’t think. Just use the authoer of the article, Ben Crystal. I mean c’mon…his IQ wouldn’t make a respectable earthquake and his mental swiftness is slower than a herd of turtles wading thorugh chunky peanut butter fer chrissakes. If you read this board, you’ll note every once in awhile Crystal will pen a short post patting himself on the ack or acknowledging plaudits from some insane nimwit, but never can he defend hs writings. yet people here are like coyotes circling red meat with his inflammatory hack writings. Ah well…he has toearn a living somehow and the local McD’s near him probably rejected his application.

      • Dan az

        Flash
        you truly amaze me with your facts Oh thats right there are none Sorry my bad!

      • marvin

        HFlashman
        in two words [offensive word removed] ,the kos put a bull eye on this congress lady in 2007 for being to far to the center,open your eyes and read befor you start placing blame but as allways you like to by pass the facts and one more point if you don,t like this right wing blog ,DON,T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU AS YOU GO flashless or clueless

      • http://www.kjnf.net Jimmimac

        another left winger who does not watch the left wing media, ok so what then did Obama say about a knife, and the left wing radio joke calling for a revolution, and then there was Obamas friend Louis Farakhan calling for a revolution and the union leader who called for killing political leaders, where were you when these and dozens of other left wing loons called for violence in America? I suppose you think they are all right wing plants in the left as well!

      • kate8

        Don’t forget the guy calling for the killing of whites and their “cracker babies”.

        Don’t forget the hispanic groups calling for killing all whites and “taking back” the southwest.

        Don’t forget the Muslims flooding into America, taking over our cities and calling for taking over America, committing terrorist acts against Americans and overthrowing our government.

        These are outright calls for murder and mayhem.

        These are not conservative voters. Where has been the outrage from the Left? Where have been the cries for them to tone down the rhetoric? (crickets).

        Where do they point fingers? Sarah Palin!

        They aren’t getting away with this any longer. We need to call them on EVERYTHING from now on.

        The tables are being turned.

      • Dan az

        Hey kate
        See it pays to get pissed off,I forgot about all those and many more thanks!

      • Allan Halbert

        Rationalize and revise as you will. Fact is the left started blaming the right immediately and you know this.

    • RAY

      WHaaaaaaaat? ARE YOU SAYING ? You ignore the WHOLE point of Ben’s article. He is simply pointing out the lightning fast speed at which the Left -Media tried to “PIN” this on a political dynamic. And now your bitching at him for simply pointing out an OBSERVATION?
      After the shoooting at Ft.Hood ,the same media people that he mentioned
      in his article CAUTIONED us ALL to not jump to conclusions…give it time..give it time..Yet even that stupid Sheriff comes out and taints the jury pool right away by blaming “right-wing” hate groups?
      Arguguing with guys like you is an excercise in futility,truly.
      Enjoy your finger pointing bitter life and keep on patting each other on the back. In the eman time…the rest of us will be out there to stop your bitterness with Pro-American optimism.

      • eddie47d

        Ben’s article was hardly pro-American optimism and maybe that sheriff is just sick and tired of all the hate and divisiveness that has been placed on his community over the last few years. Look how sheriff Arpaio in the next county over has stirred up controversy in those same years. We’re all tired of it all and on many fronts.

      • always right

        Eddie, that sheriff’s speech was hateful rhetoric to those of us who are conservatives. It was also based upon his ow prejudice toward conservatives rather than the facts in the case; i.e. it was lies. But that’s all OK with you because you’re just another libtard to whom facts mean nothing and with whom hate speech is fine as long as it is directed at conservatives. What’s that make you? Oh, a hypocrite, a hater and a bigot.

      • eddie47d

        Classy words; hate, bigot? Sheriff Arpaio has said far worse than this Sheriff and has spread much hate and bigotry.

      • JeffH

        eddie says…”Sheriff Arpaio has said far worse than this Sheriff and has spread much hate and bigotry.” Maybe you could provide some proof to another of the eddie assumptions…seems the good sheriff is enforcing the law…

      • eddie47d

        So did Elliot Ness but he wasn’t always so honorable.

      • Steve

        Is anyone else besides me waiting for eddie to back up what he said. Back it up or shut up.

      • eddie47d

        Steve; I’m not going to do your research for you.Arapio has done some unsavory things and some good things also.

      • marvin

        eddie47d
        this sheriff has two choices enforce the law as wrote not as he wants keep his opinions to his self or get out of office,his job is to enforce the law not to start a right left fight by stating his opinion not facts,

      • DamnYankee32

        You mentioned Sheriff Arpaio. Are you for illegals coming across the borders? I assume you don”t know or don”t care as to the difference between legal and illegal. How can the Sheriff who is doing his duty be accused of violence?

      • eddie47d

        There are plenty of Sheriff’s who break the law and not always in catching the bad guys.

      • Dan az

        See there you go again eddiee (Look how sheriff Arpaio in the next county over has stirred up controversy in those same years. We’re all tired of it all and on many fronts.)Blaming the ones that want to uphold the laws that we all have and refuse to see the truth for what it is. Show me where he broke the law!Thats the problem with you no facts!If I wanted bed time stories I would find a book that had them but thats not why I’m here,I like to get the facts up front and you and your kind seem to not have any!How can you recruit people to your side with out them?Fairytales thats all I get from you and the rest of your kind.What is so hard about researching the truth maybe because you would find out that your on the wrong team maybe?

      • kate8

        Dan az – That’s an easy one to answer.

        Leftists don’t care about facts. They operate from emotion. They recruit people, mostly youth, by appealing to those who are already live in a sea of raging emotion and hormones. They teach them to distrust the morals and values of their parents, and rip any foundation they ever had out from under.

        People with no real rudder in life are vulnerable to making choices based on emotion, especially when you convince them they’ve been cheated and held down, and then point the blame at conservative America.

        Islam does the same thing to their youth. They have a lot in common.

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Daveh

        “I have yet to see a Christian force their belief on anybody” What about my mother and others.They made it impossible for a Catholic family to live in our neighborhood.They force their religious beliefs in public schools such as prayers,christmas plays, and easter egg hunts.They force indians and blacks to accept their vicious creed.What about the dark ages?That was when Christainity declare war on society,it resulted in the torture and murder of men, women and children.They also were responsible for the lives of 160 million Indians on both continents,North American and South America.In short,they kill more people than Joeseph Stalin,Chou Enlai and Mao tse tung.
        What About The Puritans,religious cults and other Christian nuts.You remember Abortion clinics? They are examples of how Christainity still dominates society and force their silly beliefs on everyone.

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        I meant Christianity.

      • kate8

        lump of coal – That’s idiocy.

        What do you lefty’s always do when you’re caught? Start in with the dredging up of (revisionist) history. That’s called throwing up a smokescreen. Clouding the issue.

        Abortionist killings? What about infanticide? That, you support.

        Tit for tat. That solves everything, doesn’t it?

      • Dan az

        Hey Kate
        I had to look that one up and it blew my mind!
        Babies who survive abortions are not protected by the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution.

        Obama, the sole opponent ever to speak against BAIPA, stated on the Illinois Senate floor on March 30, 2001:

        I just want to suggest … that this is probably not going to survive constitutional scrutiny.

        Number one, whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a – child, a 9-month-old – child that was delivered to term. …

        I mean, it – it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute. For that purpose, I think it would probably be found unconstitutional.

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Kate8,

        I am not a lefty.I don’t believe in any kind of governments.I belong to the Iww.We are sworn enemies of socialism, so called communism and capitalism.We are the true libertarians,we considered all governments dictatorial,including democracy.Anarchy is the best rule which means no rule.Anybody can join the IWW, we welcome all races, colors and creeds.

      • kate8

        coal – Show me a society where that has ever worked, but I’m not aware of any.

        Judging by your posts, that is a scary thought, indeed.

      • Dale on the left coast

        Lumpy . . . you’re starting to sound like the guy in jail in Tuscon . . . . .

      • DaveH

        I don’t know your mother, Coal Miner. And I’m talking about this country, these times. If you can cite some references for the force you are declaring by Christians, I would be happy to look up references of force against the Christians. Remember, current times, Miner, not several hundred years ago.

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Daveh,Dale, and Kate8

        http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html – 61k – Similar pages

      • Dan az

        Black lunger
        That has got to be the most twisted site I ever had to read!If thats the best you can do I would suggest that you take a one way ticket to Haiti because I think you would fit in quite well there!

      • DaveH

        Coal Miner,
        Are you providing proof for my point now? That website was nothing but a rabid attack on Christians.
        Read this one (use the links to get to the other pages):
        http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20100224/COLUMNISTS/2244021/0/ARTICLES?Title=Christians-find-themselves-under-fire-throughout-United-States

        Has a Christian ever forced you to pray, Miner? There are plenty of cases around the country where Christians have been told they couldn’t pray, or post their religious symbols. Are you aware of any cases where Christians have taken people to court to force them to pray? Government is Force, Miner.
        Although atheist myself, I would fraternize with a Christian long before I would fraternize with a thieving, pushy Liberal.

      • DaveH

        Liberal leaders hate Christians for many reasons, not the least of which is their adherence to the Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Steal”. How dare those dastardly Christians tell Liberals that it is wrong to steal the property of others?

      • Steve

        Coal Miner, I’m sorry you have been so hurt by what you believe to be Christianity. Unfortunatly I hear similar stuff sometimes how people are hurt by the church and they stay offended for long periods of time. BUT please consider for a minute what Christianity is and what it is not and then I hope it helps you see things a bit differently. You see scripture says that “It’s God’s kindness that leads us to repentance” and that’s my experience. I know that you can find examples and people that have terrible experiences in church or with people that say they go to church or say they are Christians. But you you need to understand that A CHRISTIAN IS CHRIST LIKE. CHRISTIANITY IS TO ADOPT THE THINGS THAT JESUS TAUGHT AND LIVE THE WAY HE DID, or try to anyway. CHRISTIANITY IS TO LOVE OTHERS, EVEN YOUR ENEMIES. That’s Christianity and you quite possibly have never seen it or seen anyone that is a very good example of a Christian. The church as a whole has a lot of hurt and broken people in it. And I have heard a saying that “hurt people, hurt people”. Also, it’s true that some pastors or whatever you want to call them are or have been THE WORST kind of example of what a Christian really is and makes me sick. Some are not even Christians. But people in church are not God. They are people. Pastors are people. Some churches are better than others. Jesus was and is AWESOME. Jesus loved people and he was killed for it by the religious leaders of the time. But understand that Jesus willingly allowed it to happen as part of Gods plan to redeem mandkind from sin. “There is no greater love than this, that one would lay down their life for a friend”. In a nutshell, that’s Christianity and that’s what Jesus did for us. I truly doubt you have a problem with Christianity and hope you would understand that.

        Your friend,

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        DaveH,

        Growing up in the south we were ordered to bow our heads in school and pray and you are forgetting my mother. She crammed her silly beliefs down our throats. If what I am saying now I would have been expelled from school.Remeber the Monkey Trial,Scopes was not only fired,he was thrown in jail for teaching evolution.As the Bible being moral you better take a second look at your biblical heroes.You got Lot and his daughters,You got king David,lecher, bandit, murder and thief. You got Samson, and the wise man of the Bible, Solomon.Do you remember Joshua?He murder,rape and decimated entire towns.All religions are a means of force,Christianity is no exception.I could go on and on.The Bible is anything,but moral.

      • marvin

        RAY
        that is one reason the feds moved him to phoenix,one more point, there were other people killed or hurt besides this congress lady,some old people a young girl this was an act of a deranged person not a person playing with a full deck,and for anyone like the sheriff to start the blame game need be out of office their is no place in goverment for this kind of talk,and the people of arizona most likly won,t forget it,the facts do not at this point support his opinions and he should never have started this right left thing,as joe friday in the old dragnet show ,would say facts mam just the facts

    • Karolyn

      And a big AMEN! to that!

    • FreedomFighter

      The left can no longer play imaginary guilt games to edge more votes, nor will superficial displays of remorsesway any conservative or any other thinking American/english speaking.

      Should we now state: Dem policy toward immagration has created a multibillion dollar country wide systemic failure, with 1/3, one third, 33% of all in jail currently are illegals. Further more, this policy has all but collapsed social services, hospitols, fire and rescure services…cost billions.

      People need to call out the utter failure of the left, whatever the rhetoric cards fall.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Bruce D.

        Well said Freedom Fighter.

      • eddie47d

        Democrats have been fighting for Immigration Reform for some time now. Those reforms have included fines,penalties and years to achieve citizenship. The Democrats have deported more illegals than the previous administration and is trying harder to get the criminal element out of our country. There is still much to be done but please don’t dump this problem solely on them.

      • castaway

        That is the point exactly. We do not want your brand of Immigration reform,nor do we want amnesty for any of them. Send them all back, no matter how long they have been abusing our hospitality. You lefties do not seem to have the ability to run a country anywhere, but into the dirt.

      • eddie47d

        How come you aren’t talking about killing people Castaway? Did this mass murderer hit a nerve and you’ll be pulling back on your extremism verbiage for a few days.When the right calls you out then I’ll believe that they are serious about stopping this madness. Until they do I’ll have to consider it business as usual.

      • eddie47d

        Speaking of verbiage thundertone (below) tried to use some colorful language to spread his B.S. Get over yourself!!

      • thundertone

        [offensive word removed] EDDIEBOY…the dems have been primarily instrumental in instigating blame and anarchy and distrust in the American people using double speak and lies and manipulations soully to play get the end result they want which is ALWAYS opposite of what it appears…and YOU REPLUBLICANS LET THEM AND FALL RIGHT INTO THEIR GAME AND ACTUALLY ADD TO THE PROBLEM BY NOT CALLING THEM OUT ON THE CARPET AND UPHOLDING THE VERY VALUES THAT THEY SHOW PLAINLY NOT TO STAND FOR!! Such as the Constitution, morals, and serving the American people!!

      • Ret

        You hit a lot of nails on the head, thank you. All I can say is that I’m glad I’m old and won’t have to live many more years in this mess. I’m even happier that most of my family did not live to see it, particularly the different male members who fought in every war and/or conflict since WWI, to preserve our freedoms, our rights and our responsibilities. How did we come to the point of such evil? George Bush said after 9/11 you’re either with me or against me, Barry talks about groups of us as enemies. It took my brother years to be compensated for injuries after Korea, yet we give 100 times that to illegal aliens (they are not immigrants) without blinking an eye. The previous amnesty programs did not work, this one won’t work either. I’ve covered a lot of topics, sorry, but just had to say it.

      • chow

        All these democrat immigration rhetoric is nothing but amnesty. I myself just want them all deported and the 14th amendment section 1, struck down or interpreted by the court as to the exact meaning of the statement “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof”

      • SeeTheLies

        Eddie,
        You CLAIM that the Dems have been working hard to fix illegal immigration…. BS! How long does it take to build a FENCE? Had they EVER put any effort into building it the project would have been completed 12 years ago! Try another LIE! The Dems want to provide amnesty to every illegal so that they can BUY 15 MILLION VOTES to sustain their control of the U.S.A. In case you have not checked NObama is the MOST DIVISIVE “President” ever to usurp the office. He still has not proven to the American PEOPLE that he is legally elligible to hold the office. And yes, that means providing both a valid American Birth Certificate, and answering questions about the Passport he used when he went to Kenya and other places that were interdicted by the U.S. State department…. he could not have done it on an American Passport, no visa! If he used a passport from another country then he has surrendered his American citizenship.
        Go ahead…. stick your head in the sand and duck the questions, but that does not resolve the issue. Answeres are needed, and have as yet, not been forthcoming. How many Millions of Dollars has NObama spent to try to bury this? Too many! I have no respect for LIARS and THIEVES, in either party. Half the Congress could be jailed if they had not granted themselves ‘diplomatic immunity’ from prosecution. SICK!
        P.S. Try to respond with FACTS and leave out the vitriolic verbiage.

      • eddie47d

        Since the majority of illegals came into this country under another administration and went to work for conservative (Republican) leaning companies then the ball should have been put into their court. Why are you always trying to pass the buck onto Obama when he is doing more than that previous administration? There is a national debt out there and 2 wars which have taken precedence over the immigration issue. You hate Obama so what is new?

      • Steve

        I’m sorry my friend but I think you are wrong. Obama doesn’t want to necessarily give illegals amnesty he only want to say he will give them amnesty so they will vote for him time and again. It’s a game they play to get votes. I think this is how Obama got elected. just tell everyone you will give them what they want. Then when in office, just do the stuff you really want to do. Obviously, he lied a lot to get elected but what he really wanted to do was destroy our constitutional government, run up the credit card debt, pay off everyone that helped him get elected like Soros and the unions, convert us to socialism, make the country more politically and racially divided than ever, destroy business except unions, make energy prices “necessarily skyrocket”. Oh, and then kick the can down the road until Republicans get back in office so they can be blamed for all the damage he causes. Carter was stupid but his guy is very cunning and devious. I think he tries to take US ALL down within the next two years.

      • Searcher

        eddie47d
        Perhaps SOME democrats have been fighting for it, but if it was really a priority, why was it not done? They held both houses of Congress, and the Whitehouse. Just more empty rhetoric from them in an effort to pander more votes. By the way, how’d that work out for them?

      • Dan az

        Come on Eddiee
        Give me the facts just once!
        http://www.eutimes.net/2010/08/arizona-under-siege/
        I try to give only the facts not what I feel that they are,Why dont you try it?

      • eddie47d

        Nothing untrue about what I said.

      • marvin

        FreedomFighter
        i say amen to,befor the internet crooks in goverment could hide their lies and miss deeds,but now the light has been placed on them they run like cockroaches,and hide behind their liberal place blame or tell a lie enuff time, people will think it is fact .can i get a .so be it[amen]

    • DaveH

      Jeremy,
      Ben Crystal is just giving back to the left what the left has given to the right for many decades. Hurts, doesn’t it?
      I learned long ago that the left is full of racists who accuse the right of being racist. I learned long ago that the left is full of haters who accuse the right of being haters. I learned long ago that the left is full of mean people who accuse the right of being mean.
      And I am not fond of either the left-wingers or the right-wingers, but I find the right-wingers to be more moral people. Yes, they are being betrayed by their leaders, just as much as the left-wingers are being betrayed by their leaders.
      Maybe it’s time for both left-winger followers and right-winger followers to wake up to the fact that their leaders are in it for themselves. Leaders from both extremes have built Government steadily to its current Leviathan State, albeit the Left-Wing Leaders are much more brazen about it. Wake up Followers, you are being used.
      And Jeremy, Compromise? Please, give it a rest. The Democrat idea of compromise is Democrat says “Give me all of your money”, Republican says “Absolutely not”, Democrat says “Okay then we will compromise; give me half of your money”.

      • AnhydrousBob

        Well Said, Dave.

        Crystal was only displaying the tactics of the Left, only he actually provided evidence of the left displaying hatred and advocating violence – something missing from the left’s accusations of hatred by Rush, Beck, etc.
        And personally, I think Rush, Beck, etc are too STATIST (on the Right) for my taste, but I have never heard them spew Hatred (Anger, yes). IF they have, someone please provide it to me.

      • marvin

        AnhydrousBob
        i have knob on my radio and buttons on my remote if i dislike a program or a talk show i simply turn it off, i do not have to watch or listen to anyone i don,t want to same [for now anyways]as for beck hanity palin and that goes for obama,i pay my own bills and have paid for my radio and tv,s and computer,anytime obama or his subject come on i turn them off,i just don,t like to hear the same old blame game,my wife died my kids are grown and i don,t owe you or anyone my time it is mine to do with as i please tell the master calls,and saz times up marvin,tell then i will be a thorn in the liberals side or butt,two half truths do not make a whole it is still half lie

      • kate8

        DaveH – Great post.

        I think this incident has gone a long way in waking people up to just who these people are. And it’s not pretty.

        What will they do when their divisive rhetoric no longer works to keep true freedom-loving Americans down?

        We’ll see where the violence comes from when they have no more rhetorical tools left to use.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Dave in this case I am not asking for comprimise I am asking for recognition. The recognition of rhetoric as being from all people from all sides. And with that the recognition that regardless of which side made the most rhetoric, the fact is if rhetoric is to blame for this incident then out of respect for the victims and their families we should put aside our personal views of those we disagree with and instead of blaming each other to the point that a discussion over a senseless shooting devolves into a massive debate over issues stretching from government regulation, to president Obama, to immigration and religion. I dont feel its what the victims would have wanted and I wish everyone would just stop it.

      • DaveH

        Maybe, Jeremy, if you are really as good as you think you are, you are just embracing the wrong political party. Please read this free online book. It may rock your world:
        http://mises.org/books/newliberty.pdf

    • patrick H.T. paine

      “To conquer, first divide!”

      All kinds of “heroes” have surfaced, and the stories are such
      obvious contradictions……once again demonstrating the realiability
      of eye witnesses…..but to those desperate to distract and derail,
      just more grist and fodder.

      Had a real hero been present ( one who had a gun and the instincts
      and training to use it ) much of the damage would have been avoided.
      And if everyone had a gun, maybe the gunman would have chosen another
      method, or none at all. ( he hadn’t planned on surviving so who can
      say….he probably expected police to be present and if they had been
      he would be dead. )

      That he survived is unfortunate for everyone, because now everything
      has to be controlled and managed to achieve the “proper” result.
      As with “timothy mcveigh”, this should not be difficult, after all
      the fact that there were 3 unexploded devices in the Federal Blgd,
      dutifully reported at the time, and then never mentioned again,
      was easy enough to bury.

      The spin has already started, with references to “incoherant ramblings”
      regarding “our currency” and “the Fed” and politicians somehow “not really
      understanding the words”……..hhhhhmmmm, so I guess such “incoherance”
      is rampant…….because a lot of it appears HERE……and in the Constitution
      as well……..i.e. Congress shall have the power ( duty and responsibility )
      to coin money and regulate the value thereof, fix the value of foreign
      currency, etc……..not to mention Article One, section 10.

      Since these elected officials have taken an “oath”, these “ramblings”
      are clearly “incoherant”……to them.

      Of course, the second article of the bill of rights, will again be raised,
      and once again it’s meaning conveniently misinterpreted…..for one
      clearly has a natural right to defend oneself against any threat,
      so the meaning of this “right” can only be, the one to defend oneself
      against “government” when it decides to use FORCE while exercising
      authority that is both “illegitimate and therefor criminal”.

      The simplest way to do this would be to rewrite history, and instead of
      the war that was necessary, simply declare that England, having received
      our “petition for redress of grievances”, understood and agreed with
      these complaints, and peacefully granted our indepedance, without that shot
      heard round the world, and the fact that is was “government force” seeking
      to secure an arsenal and denyihg the means of resistance, to those
      oppressed by “tyranny.”

      We may also want to eliminate any reference to the Articles of Confederation,
      which were so fearful of a strong FEDERAL government, that they were written
      with such constraints, that it rendered the system, unworkable….requiring
      what was essentially an “unlawful” effort to replace it. ( and over time,
      with distortion and corruption, ended up with exactly what was feared )

      Finally, to end this obvious “incoherant rambling” a question:

      How does one exercise one’s right to peacefully petition for a redress greivances,
      when the authority one is appealing to, is the source of those greivances,
      has a vested interest in continuing them, and has the power of force and the
      court’s to rule in their favor?

      patrick H.T. paine, citizen at large
      who will cease to reason, when they pry my
      brain from my cold dead head.

      • Dan az

        Patrick P
        that was well thought out and covered just about everything and not one lefty or righty mentioned Not bad at all!Thanks!

    • Historian

      If you continue to read these opinions, you will find that no one is interested in uncovering the truth. They are all stuck in the attempt to support their own point of view.

    • smithington

      WOW!!! So many responses. We should think about what’s going on. What’s goin’ on, what’s goin’ on?

    • Brad

      And I disagree with just about all of you. Our dialogue is the wrong dialogue. Politics & rhetoric, no matter how mild or over the top has nothing to do with what happened here in Tucson. This was a deranged man, obsessed with the occult, mind control, and dream control, and who knows what else. Anyone that knew him all say that he hated politics, that he never discussed it, and that he would rather talk philosophy or any of the aforementioned things.

      For some reason, he became fixated on Congresswoman Giffords. He knew there would be a crowd that day. You all have been sucked into the vacuum that the point-the-finger crowd has created, even by our irresponsible county sheriff that is tainting the case by postulating speculative political rants, attributing the shooting to things he has no evidence of. As a matter of fact, most of the evidence speaks volumes against what the blame game crowd is saying.

      If you want insight into this shooter’s warped mind, read this: http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message. This is an interview with one of his past closest friends. Scary stuff.

      As a teacher, I see this happening all the time in education. Talk about everything that you *think* is about the problem, but don’t actually talk about the problem so it never gets solved.

      • kate8

        Yep. Let’s just keep lapping up the official story, like we always do.

        Sure the kid had a warped mind, because he was damaged. He was used.

        No one has expressed any horror at what is being done to our youth. This young man is as much a victim as the rest of them. It breaks my heart to look into those eyes and see vacant, soulless being. That isn’t natural, and he wasn’t always that way, friends said.

        Think back at all the shooting incidents that have gone on in the US. Doesn’t anyone see a stunning similarity in look and behavior of these “crazed” shooters?

        Do some research into MKultra. This is precisely what it was intended for. It’s a horrific idea, and no one wants to believe it, but until we grow up and start realizing the extent to which we are being manipulated and herded, we cannot understand what we are dealing with.

        It’s sickening, and lives are being wasted all around.

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