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Crushing Dissent

December 17, 2010 by  

Crushing Dissent

The U.S. Army private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks sits in solitary confinement in a military brig at Quantico, Va., isolated for 23 hours of every day. He’s been there for five months, and he was held in similar conditions for two months in a military jail in Kuwait.

Salon.com’s Glenn Greenwald writes that Bradley Manning, despite being a model detainee without any episodes of violence or other disciplinary problems, has been declared a Maximum Custody Detainee, is isolated from human contact for all but one hour a day, is barred from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce the restrictions. And now the brig’s medical personnel administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of the isolation.

“In sum,” Greenwald writes, “Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America’s Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado:  all without so much as having been convicted of anything.”

There is no word to describe this sort of the treatment other than torture.

Despite what you think of Manning and his actions — and it’s evident from some of the responses to A War On The Truth that many believe there is no punishment sufficiently cruel for Manning and Julian Assange — his treatment at the hands of the U.S. Government is barbaric and extreme. In many nations — including our own, according to court rulings from the 19th and 20th centuries — extended confinement in extreme isolation is considered a form of torture.

This treatment is especially egregious when one considers that Manning is merely accused of a crime. He has not yet been convicted. In America, in theory at least, everyone is to be considered innocent until the state proves them guilty.

This is what happens when the camel’s nose gets in the tent, as it did when our government sanctioned the torture of enemy combatants at Abu Ghraib, at Guantanamo Bay and in secret facilities around the world. The camel’s nose was allowing the torture of foreigners. This expanded to torture of Americans — first Jose Padilla and now Manning — who are, in their own ways, considered terrorists by U.S. authorities.

Next, authorities will come for those who dare to stand up to oppressive government — Tea Party members, Ron Paul supporters, libertarians, returning military veterans, those who fear coming martial law and are stockpiling food and gold. Some in government already consider these people to be terrorists.

Don’t believe that can happen? Ask Padilla and Manning.

Or, if you could, it would be a wonderful exercise to query those German, Russian and Chinese citizens who were roused out of bed in the dark of night, only to disappear into some dank gulag, concentration camp or salt mine without benefit of trial, merely for being different or daring to speak the truth.

Is this the America you want to see?

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Harold Olsen

    I have no sympathy for Manning. He is a traitor. He sold classified documents and if convicted he deserves to be put to death. As for Assange, I would not be upset if a “shoot on sight” order were put out on him. I’m someone who normally opposes capitol punishment, but for scumbags like this, no punishment would be too harsh for either of them.

  • Ancient Warrior

    The Bradley case is different from the Padilla case.

    Bradly is a soldier who disobeyed orders and committed other military crimes. If the Obama administration were competent, he would now be in solitary, only serving a life sentence or awaiting execution. I pity him, but in no way sympathize.

    Padilla is a terrorist who engaged in making war on the US. There are no rules for the treatment of terrorists, and the Bush administration was forced to make it up as they went along, with political second-guessers trying to undermine Bush’s presidency. With regard to terrorists, we owe them no special treatment. We owe ourselves to give them food, shelter and medical attention while we hold them. We should hold them as long as they are a threat, even if that means years and decades.

  • Gregory M. Fota

    Innocent until proven guilty?…not for this poor sap. He probabloy is a traitor, but he still deserves his Constitutional right to a “speedy” trial. Oh, I forgot, he lives in “Obamaland” where 2+2=5. Meanwhile, Mr. Assange is out on bail ,and back to his same old dangerous antics. Unbelievable.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Gregory, thats what I don’t get, people claim these guys have comitted treason, but why then, didn’t the authorities do something about them, when they released the first batch of intel?_It doesn’t make sense.

      • USNpops

        Manning committed treason. He is an american military man.

        Assange is an austrailian, and a psychopath that cares for no one or nothing but his self. And he cannot be tried in this country for treason. nor in any of the countries where he has been in Europe. Which is why they are trying to get him on Sex Charges.

        His actions however treasonous they might be, are protected under the American Constitution”Right to a Free Press” and he calls himself a journalist. And anybody in this country that tries to do anything against his website can be tried under our FCC laws. So our own freedoms are being used against us by this Australian.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Well thought out USNpops!

  • Commonsense

    When you join the military you sign your rights as a civilian away. You are known as a piece of government property subjugated to the UCMJ-Uniformed Code Of Military Justice. It’s not like you have in civilian world. The Code tells you what your rights are. Everything that he is getting now, he knew he would get if he disobeyed orders. He didn’t have to sign up, but when he did he has to play by military law. That is why getting a tattoo in the military can get you brig time. It’s called defacing government property. Those are the rules. He signed up knowing what could happen. It’s too bad that people don’t realize that our current pres, along with several others, over the last century have done more damage to our country and it’s liberties than espionage has, and yet I hear their names cheered in history, sad, really.

    • crystal

      There are so many people in the civilian world who don’t have any idea of what the military is and what the military does. You’d probably be surprised that a lot of fools who never served in the military actually believe the movie “Stripes” is accurate.

      • Dan az

        crystal
        I find it amusing that even the commander and chief is unaware of the military law that he to can be tried for treason.And may very well be sooner than later.

  • FreedomFighter

    A speedy trial is in order.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    Another unhappy queer pissed off at the gvt. because he’s not allowed to parade around like a drag queen. What didn’t he understand about the consequences for his illegal actions. Didn’t someone read the UCMJ to him and tell him that the brig really sucks. he needs to spend the rest of his life on a rockpile at Levenworth. And yes, a PFC can hold a position in the military where his security clearance enables him to download this type of info. The fact that he was only a PFC says something about his qualities as a soldier. Probably another soldier putting his sexual perversion ahead of his profession.

    • bear

      gunner689,
      As an Honorably discharged military officer, I can assure you that there have been gays serving in our armed forces for many years. My service dates were from 1966 through 1969 and yes, I was in Nam. During my time in the military I knew of several individuals who were gay. It was not hard to spot, but there were no conflicts between them and the straights. Each stayed in their place and did their jobs. I NEVER had a complaint nor saw any complaint about any problems between any gay soldier and any straight soldier. To change anything about the military’s policy on “gays in the military” would cause problems. It should be left alone and the politicians should keep their damn noses out of it. When ever did a politician FIX anything?

      So, in my opinion, you can leave sexual preference out of this issue. From my viewpoint, this man saw things going on with our government and politicians and just might have felt like “we the people” might like to know how we are being manipulated. Consider that possibility before judging him as you have.

      • crystal

        I’m glad you didn’t have any problems with them, we did in our barracks. Mannings behavior about being homosexual while he was in the military doesn’t add to his innocence. Manning protested about being homosexual and whined and cried the entire time he was in. He wasn’t fit for the military.

      • LEVI506

        Manning down loaded many thousands of documents. Just like the reply to your post, you and he never read them. It’s obvious to the most casual observer that his intention was to hurt those he felt in authority and the country he blames for his problems. Under the UCMJ, he has no right as a citizen. His rights are now subservient to the military and as such he should be shot as a traitor!

      • USNpops

        I’m glad you are retired and no longer an officer serving in our military. Not because you feel DADT shud be left alone, as I feel the same, having known gays during my entire 20 years.
        What I do take offense at is the fact that you think his leaking classified information may be allright due to the public’s right to know.
        If you were still in the military and presented this idea at Officers Mess, I’m sure you would have some serious conversation with your superior officers at a later date. But maybe not in our present day officers corps. After all wasn’t the Fort Hood Killer an military officer, and in disfavor with his senior officers.

      • Claire

        The Fort Hood killer was in the military and was in disfavor with his senior officers–and these senior officer SHOULD have turned him in!!

  • Retired AF

    So what’s the point? First of all, he should not have been in the military. Homosexualty is not an acceptable behavior for proper service in the uniform of our nation. Secondly, is or is not he an indicted defendant in a serious crime?

    • crystal

      Excellent comment!!!

  • Raymond Donahue

    Gee Bear are you comparing the US Gov to the Third Reich?

    • bear

      Bulls eye!

  • Raymond Donahue

    Meanwhile his accomplice basks in publicity and is considered a hero by many.This guy is merely a dupe. What has been the course of discipline for those superiors who were as derelict in their duties to this country. I have not even seen their name in print. if they have been it has not been taken up by the mass media

  • Ron

    Manning is an immature traitor, but also a scapegoat. As a PFC, he had assistance in gaining access to all of that information and we don’t hear about the investigation trying to identify who they are. Yes, his actions were treasonous and he probably deserves the death penalty for his actions. He still has access to select reading materials. The use of anti-depressants on his part are still voluntary. They are not forced on him, just provided. Can you imagine the guilt he is feeling as he finally realizes the consequences for his actions? Especially knowing that whoever provided him the info is still free? I also agree his segregation is more for his own safety than as punishment. He wouldn’t last a full day in general population. His crime was not theft or fraud, but something that could cause others to lose their lives. The other prisoners may have family members who become affected by his actions. They’ll take him out – what do they have to lose?

  • TIME

    Hey ~ he can still get his Law Degree!

  • bear

    Enough B.S. guys. The U.C.M.J., better known as the Uniform Code of Military Justice provides for non-judicial punishment for individuals wsithin our military. GOT THAT? What Manning did is a court martial offense, similar to what Clinton did in sharing weapons and missile delivery systems with the Chinese. GOT THAT? Ony Manning was not the Presisent of the United States. GOT THAT? What Manning did, by military standards, was wrong. What Clinton did, by Constitutional standards, was also wrong. GOT THAT? If you take the time to read some of the documents that have been released, which amounts to about 1% of all the documents that Assange has in his posession, you will be amazed to see what our world leaders and politicians are doing behind our backs. Yes the government feel threatened and are pissed off because the cats are getting out of the bag. Don’t be so fast to judge Manning and Assange for their deeds. Remember Valkerie? Those men who attempted to assinate Adolph Hitler were executed by the Third Reich and now today are considered to have been the real patriots and heros of Germany. THEY TRIED TO STOP WHAT THEY KNEW WAS WRONG! There just might be some similarity in the actions of Bradley Manning and Julian Assange. The system in place is not always there to protect us but can also hide the actions of others, such as polotical leaders and politicians. Use your brains. Think about the bigger picture here…….the truth about what is really going on in our country and the world. Want to go after someone? How about George Soros?

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Mr. Soros meet Mr. Nosler.

  • Charlie

    I used to like Bob Livingston until he started defending these miserable pieces of human garbage. Incidentally, I was in the army in the pentagon attached to the CIA with a top secret clearance. I was a PFC! (although I did make Spec 4 before I was discharged.)

    • Bruce D.

      I am starting to think that Bob has read one too many conspiracy books and it colors his ability to ascertain the facts of the story. I guess he is just like any other blogger. He tells it like he sees it and not necessarily like it is.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Bruce D.

        I believe in the Constitution and the rule of Law. You are the one who seems to have trouble with “facts,” except for those you concoct from whole cloth.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Sam

        Bob Livingston,

        In your own forum, do not tell your own reader, “You are the one who seems to have trouble with ‘facts,’ except for those you concoct from whole cloth.” And, don’t sign such an insult, “Best wishes, Bob.”

        Sam Dunn

      • Bruce D.

        Bob says: You are the one who seems to have trouble with “facts,” except for those you concoct from whole cloth.

        And which ones would those be Bob or it that just a statement of convenience.

      • DaveH

        I have yet to find anywhere in the Constitution where it says that the military personel have no Constitutional protections. Yet the military leaders continue to ignore that reality even though they swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. Our military is fighting wars in at least two countries that have been undeclared by Congress. They regularly shoot people from afar with of course no trial and often with the flimsy excuse that they are armed (wouldn’t you want to be in that hostile environment?).
        Our country has indeed become a Society of Criminals, and I am ashamed of most of you:
        http://mises.org/daily/4125

      • Bruce D.

        DaveH says: “Our military is fighting wars in at least two countries that have been undeclared by Congress. They regularly shoot people from afar with of course no trial and often with the flimsy excuse that they are armed.” Good grief DaveH want is wrong with you. Those wars were approved of and voted on by Congress. A flimsy excuse of holding a gun. My God if someone is holding a gun and he doesn’t have your uniform on or an allied uniform that is a little more than a flimsy excuse. Soldiers were being killed when the order was given to wait for others to shoot first. It was just rescinded because soldiers were dying. It is not a cowboy western were you allow the other guy to draw first.

      • DaveH

        So you are one of those that believes in pre-emptive strikes? Obviously you are not very logical because that would make you the aggressor. It’s people like you who would potentially attack us that we are supposedly fighting against. You just don’t get it do you? Maybe that concept is beyond your mental capacity.

      • Bruce D.

        Of course I believe in preemptive strikes. I cannot believe you even said that. I saw a video of a helicopter strike of three men planting a road side bomb. They were a mile away and the soldieries waited until they saw what they were doing. It was all on video. Quite frankly I am proud of our soldiers. Don’t try to make them all out to be criminals.

      • Effin Reed Tard

        DaveH,

        People get shot because the territory is under “martial law”, not “civil law”. If you are under martial law your better staying indoors, if you look suspicious it’s shoot first and ask questions later !

      • DaveH

        I know how you must feel, Bob. Sorry. People believe what they want to believe, and getting them to think a little is a difficult task. You are a great person. Know that there are at least a few of us out here who appreciate your efforts.

      • Bruce D.

        DaveH says: “People believe what they want to believe, and getting them to think a little is a difficult task.” There is no one that applies to more than you DaveH.

      • Claire

        Bruce D–Don’t you think we are all bullheaded and believe what we want to believe? I know I can be bullheaded and I certainly believe what I believe and I can look at issues in a different way sometimes. You have your opinion, DaveH has his. This is one of the “rights” we have as Americans.

      • libertytrain

        Unfortunately Claire, if we do not agree with each and all of their thoughts we are the ones deemed ignorant.

      • Claire

        libertytrain—You and me ignorant?? Hell no, they are ignorant if they don’t agree with us!! LOL Just kidding.

      • Claire

        libertytrain–Today is our Mayor’s funeral. He shot himself in the chest, as least this is what the coroner has determined. The coronor is in a lot of hot water herself, a lot of wrongdoing according to the newspaper. Now there are two men fighting amongst themselves to fill the position until the election. Good old Illinois politics.

      • libertytrain

        Claire – well let us bask in our ignorance – :D

      • libertytrain

        Claire – may your city be saved somehow from the ravages of greedy men (and or women)

      • DaveH

        So, you are going to follow me around and launch your ad hominem attacks now, like the Liberals, Bruce? I’m beginning to think you are as much a lowlife as they are.

      • Bruce D.

        Give me a break Dave. You are commenting on my post. You are not seeing realty. You also accuse me of doing the same things liberals do yet you are the name caller the the one trying to belittle every comment that is in disagreement with yours.

      • DaveH

        Your comments are riddled with ad hominem attacks, Bruce. I stand by my accusation – you are lowlife.

  • AZ Jack

    It is very hard for me to show any sympathy for Manning or Assange, but I do not believe that he (Manning) should be treated as badly as he is being treated. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. At least, that is the way it is supposed to work.

  • http://radiodynamo.com/ Radio Dynamo

    I think this young man did the country a favor. He should be given a medal for bravery above and beyond the call of duty. We need more like him.

    Remember George Hansen from Idaho? He was never convicted of anything either but he disappeared for years riding a train from one end of the country to the other and horrible abused in the process of it all. For what? Telling the truth.

    Out so called government is clearly out of control and the real terrorists sit behind benches in long black robes and in capitol chambers posing as men and women of honor and integrity, traitors to the oath they took to up hold and defend their/our constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

    • crystal

      He signed documents and took an oath. Mannings word isn’t worth crap.

      • LEVI506

        PLEASE DO NOT PUT GEORGE AND MANNING IN THE SAME SENTENCE. GEORGE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST TO CALL MANNING A TRAITOR. A GOOD FRIEND ONCE ASKED GEORGE WHY HE DID THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT THINGS HE DID AND SAID. HE ANSWERED TO THE EFFECT THAT HE SAID WHAT HE BELIEVED AND DAMM THE TORPEDOS, FULL SPEED AHEAD. HE WAS A GOOD MAN AND YOU DISHONOR HIM BY COMPARING HIM WITH MANNING, WHO IS NOT A PATRIOT.

  • Jerry Kearns

    This traitor is/was in the military. Whether you or anyone else likes it when one takes the oath one gives up quite a few protections. For my money take the traitor out back and shoot him.

    • Bruce D.

      Being in the military is not a game. If proven he put lives at risk he should received the maximum penalty.

    • Patriot

      Death by firing squad, pure and simple! Traitors have no rights, when can we start with Obama, Reid & Pelosi? When you do not unhold the Constitution you are traitor, no? There can be a case made with these 3 idiots!

      • RAH

        I agree with you completely Patriot. obama, reid, and pelosi are indeed traitors to this country and should be convicted of treason. Hopefully, with a Republican majority in the House we can start the ball rolling in removing these scum from our government.

    • Vicki

      Yes he took an oath. An oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against ALL enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC. What evidence to you offer that he was NOT upholding that oath?

      Secrets protect the guilty. That is why our courts demand the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

      • Bruce D.

        What evidence do you have he was trying to uphold the Constitution. Is that why many here hgave falen in love with this guy. It is unlikely it will play out that way but we will see. I do not get the connection from the information that has already been released.

      • Vicki

        Bruce D. writes:
        “What evidence do you have he was trying to uphold the Constitution.”
        His exposure of the mis behaviour of government employees. Kinda the whole point of the Freedom of the Press part of the First Amendment.

      • DaveH

        Bruce says “Is that why many here hgave falen in love with this guy”.
        Where do you get this hyperbole that you spew, Bruce? You are like a 10-year old kid.
        Expecting Constitutional treatment of a man is not falling in love with him. You apparently are too ignorant to see what this whole thing (Wikileaks, etc.) is all about. The leaders have been exposed to the world and they want revenge. And fools like you aid and abett them in their shennanigans.

      • Vicki

        DaveH says:
        “Bruce says “Is that why many here hgave falen in love with this guy”.
        Where do you get this hyperbole that you spew, Bruce? You are like a 10-year old kid.”

        He sounds just like a liberal defending socialism here. :)

  • Lookout

    Never mind the view on the Wikileaks his act as a government employee was at best deplorable and at worst treasonable. He could not know what damage his actions may have caused hence it would be reasonable for him to be shot on proof of his guilt. On that issue this ‘innocent till proven’ story will take effect, but you can be sure they will already be certain of his guilt; we can do without the PC rubbish.

    • DaveH

      Yeah, why not shoot him? And they should use a .50 caliber to do it. I mean, if they can do it to the other innocent victims in the released videos, why not Manning? That way the murderers could avoid the label of hypocrisy.
      Good God, you people are going to deserve the fate that Big Government has awaiting you, your children, and your grandchildren.
      We give the Government people (yes, they are just people) carte blanche to break whatever damn moral codes they want (theft, murder), and then we wonder why the country is in such a big mess.
      Sieg Heil!

    • Vicki

      Dead men tell no tales. Yeah lets shoot him quick before he can talk.

  • Jeryl

    While I agree that the release of all those documents was a violation of his oath, I certainly do not agree with the treatment he is receiving. I took the step of contacting my Representative and both Senators about this issue. Just a question: is he allowed anything to occupy his mind, or does he just have to sit alone with only his own thoughts?

    • Bruce D.

      It may not be so nice being left alone with your owns thoughts if you are being charged with treason and stand to spend the rest of your life in jail. Those who play with fire sometimes get burnt.

      • James

        Bruce, If Manning is found guilty of treason, he should be executed. Why should Americans be forced to house, cloth, feed and take care of him for the rest of his life?

      • Bruce D.

        Agreed!

      • Kate8

        James – What about the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Ried, Barry Soetoro and numerous others?

        If treason is the issue, let these folks lead the way to the firing squad.

      • James

        Kate, Nice idea, but the insiders who pulled off the 9/11 caper aren’t even sweating. Me thinks only the Second coming of Christ will clear up this mess.

    • crystal

      This is a good time for Manning to be alone with his own thoughts.

    • Vicki

      His oath included protecting and defending the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC. There is a chain of command to oaths as well.

  • papadonthai

    How long does anyone think he would last in general population in the Quantico brig? Even prisoners have a code against certain criminals. Ask pedophiles what happened to them in a prison, they are considered the scum of the earth by even murderers.

    What do you think they would do to a traitor, even if the term “innocent until proven guilty” is applied. I venture to say, Manning would be buried with honors, dead at the hand of fellow prisoners.

    • Bruce D.

      Soldiers have more at stake when treason is committed. Sometimes those sitting in the comfort of their own home do not realize what is really at stake when someone is given information that puts your life at risk.

      • DaveH

        Oh, come on. Treason? Have any of you who are claiming that even seen what the content of those releases consist of? Baa-a,Baa-a.
        http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=12058

      • Vicki

        From DaveH’s cite
        “The series of New York Times stories based on the files paints a grim picture of a mission hampered by endemic disorganization, double-dealing allies, and frequently deadly error.”

        Thus demonstrating that secrets protect the guilty.

      • USNpops

        Some of the information that I was privy to, had there been a Wikileaks and I gave them the information back in the 60′s and 70′s, could conceivably caused the loss of an entire Naval vessl with in excess of 150 sailors on board.
        So I know how this twit could have, and actually may, cause great harm to our nation.
        And in all societies, the penalty for treason is Death. And at least this guys has his life left, and the liberal justice system will allow him to keep it I’m sure.

      • Vicki

        And the penalty for exposing a tyrant before he is ready is also death. Just ask any tyrant.

      • Kate8

        Has anyone even considered that, without the controlled media running with this story, it would have been a non-story?

        We all know that when things appear over the internet, but are ignored by the MSM, no one gives it any credence, if they hear of it at all. The release of this stuff had to have had the blessing of the PTB, or this wouldn’t have exploded the way it did.

        Aside from that, this young soldier had to have known the possible repercussions of leaking info. So he’s either a tool of tht PTB, or he genuinely sacrificed himself to do what he thought was his patriotic duty.

        Is he a traitor or a hero? Will we ever know? Will higher powers protect him, quietly pay him off, or will they take him to slaughter shrouded in infamy?

        We live in a world of deception and manipulation. We need to keep this in mind when we are inclined to start demanding someone’s head based on media hysteria.

      • Claire

        Kate8–I watched some of Jesse Ventura’s Conspiracy Theory the other night. It was about the Pentagon and 9/11. Seems like NO plane parts were found, they think it was a bomb–

    • James

      Exposing what our government has done and is doing isn’t necessarily a bad thing. There are things the government doesn’t want us to know, things that are not detrimental to our national security, things that case our government in a bad light – like manufacturing evidence that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction.

  • Don

    They treat him this way without a conviction, then go on about how awful the real terrorists are treated at Gitmo. Something just doesn’t smell right.

    • Angel Wannabe

      “BINGO”,DON!

  • Larry Hearold

    Mannang is a scapegoat anyway. Having served for over 20 years in the military, a PFC DOES NOT have access to the amounts and types of information that he “supposedly” provided wikileaks. He may have passed the information along from someone else but a PFC just does not get the security clearances necessary to do it. TTHAT is why he’s being isolated! They are afraid that if he starts talking to lawyers, reporters, etc., the cat is out of the bag and the real culprit will be known. I don’t agree with wikileaks but it needs to be done. Our government is too corrupt and the Amaerican public is too dumb!

    • James

      Larry, If memory serves, Manning kept tinkering with his computer search until he stumbled onto a combination of terms that unlocked these super-secret files. He then downloaded them (some 250,000 pages) and gave them to Wikileaks. That anyone could do that was a shock, and an embarrassment to the authorities.

      • Harold Olsen

        A few weeks ago, Fox News Channel reported that Manning’s superiors caught him downloading some of these documents and ordered him to stop. He apparently ignored those orders and his superiors apparently did not ensure that he complied with them.

      • http://none Mike

        People Listen to yourselves. God all Bob is asking is that you think here before we just write this guy off.I have some very intresting questions I would love to have answerd before this guy is made mute by whatever they are feeding him in there.

        1How did a privet in the service gain acess to above top secret documents? Did you ever think that some lazy general might have given him a clerance code to write some report for him? Or was he given acess by some higher up who was flat disgusted by the behavior of our wonderful goverment? No insted you howell for blood like the cheap seats in the Roman coloseum.

        2 Were the secrets he relesed detrimental to our leaders or were they detrimental to our security? If what was relesed was just a slap at how we are conducting our affairs overseas then maby we needed to be told the truth about it?If we were double dealing on our allies and consorting with the enemy during a time of war there were far larger crimes being commited by our goverment?

        3 Why was Assange chosen for the relese of this information? Was he an inside contact for someone higher up the food chain?We may never know how high up the ladder this goes if he is broken and mindless when and if he is ever allowed to testify.

        4 I want some of these questions answerd please. Call me naive if you want but we have had too many years of cloak and dagger polotics for me just to be satisfied with calling him a traitor.

        5 I have seen several of you who are millitary veterans quoteing the UCMJ. I am too and I have personally seen where the UCMJ was circumvented in favor of a higher ups son being allowed to stay in the millitary after a suicide attempt. This activity was to be followed by an immediate court martial and imprisonment. Yet he was allowed to stay and complete his basic and go on to his school.So no the UCMJ isnt as ironclad for all as you think .

        Just a few points to ponder before we throw this guy to the lions. And if he is proven guilty then by all means punish him. But lets not be so quick in our rush to judgement that we loose track of the facts. Mike L.

      • Kate8

        Mike, I tend to agree. In today’s world, we can’t trust the media. People are often set up to be sacrificial lambs. I don’t know if this is the case, but we can be sure we’ve not been told the whole truth.

      • James

        Mike, Nor do I believe we can trust our national government.

    • crystal

      Sorry Larry, but this time you’re wrong. When I was a Seaman Apprentice in my field I held an extremely high Security Clearance which gave me access to some of the most critical information coming over the system. The military uses low ranking individuals to push paper.

      • Harold Olsen

        I sometimes wonder just how good security is in the military. I enlisted in the army on my last day of high school in 1967 and spent three years in the service, which included a year in Vietnam. After basic training at Fort Lewis, Washington, I was sent to Edgewood Arsenal, Maryland where I worked as a clerk-typist in a chemical lab. I eventually got a security clearance rating of “Secret.” My job was to type up documents about research being done in my department. Before getting my security clearance, I was not allowed to read any of the documents that I had typed up. Does that make any sense??

      • Jana

        Harold O.
        Now that is just too funny. At the same time that is pathetic.
        The military is made up of people. They make mistakes, and some of those mistakes are in thinking if the other person is serving in this department, then they must be trustworthy. I am sure a lot of our security is not as secure as it should be. Too many people have easy access to information that they shouldn’t have.

      • Kate8

        Jana – For Pete’s sake, the military must accept Muslims and assume them to be loyal to America, even though they are clear that their first allegiance is to Allah.

        I’m afraid that today, insanity rules.

    • DaveH

      I agree, Larry. It’s easy from reading various comments on this board to see how evil people like Hitler, Stalin, or Mao can take power. Too many unquestioning sheeple.

      • Bruce D.

        You mention Hitler a lot Dave. You seem to be the one who wants to dictate what everyone says on this site. Your posts are increasingly filled with name calling and belligerence. I understand you have a very high opinion of yourself and a very low opinion of anyone who disagrees with you but that is your problem.

      • DaveH

        Your comments are full of ad hominem attacks, Bruce. Take off your blinders. You are as manipulative as the Liberals.

      • James

        Dave, you said Hitler and Stalin were both evil people. Are you saying we shouldn’t have allied with the Soviet Union in World War Two? General Patton (1885-1945) said we should have allied with Germany against the Soviets.

    • USNpops

      I was in the military for 20 years as well and cleared for Secret as an E4, and Top Secret as an E5. Clearance is give based on the information you may come in contact with in performance of your job, and has nothing to do with age or rank.
      In my case Anti Submarine Warfare tactics and the use of oceanographic data. Any one that spends 20 years in the military without a Clearance, was in a job that had no signifigance in relation to national security.
      There were regular evaluations of my status and I maintained the clearances for the life of my enlistment. Getting the clearance required a very rigid background check and yards of paperwork on a regular basis during the time I held those clearances. This carried forward into my civilian position with a large national company after retirement, where I was in a job position requiring me to enter secure Military installations in performance of my job.
      But the bottom line for me was that I was so trusted as an individual to be given this honor, that no way would I violate the oath of secrecy I took. Call me sentimental, but that is how I felt and feel to this day.

      • Jana

        USNpops,
        That’s because you are an honorable man. Thank you.

  • Bill

    I agree with Mr. Livingston. If Manning is tried and found guilty, THEN he should, IMHO, be executed for treason. Until then he is “innocent until proven guilty”. I think he should be held in custody to prevent flight until he is prosecuted, but not in total isolation. His trial should also be as soon as possible and not dragged out over many years. Secret, idefinte imprisonment and torture (including prolonged isolation)is NOT what America is about. I am a patriot and deplore what Manning did (if he is guility – and I believe that he is – but that needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court), but he is a U.S. citizen and deserves to be treated decently and given a fair trial.

  • John Wayne

    Leave his sorry butt there too!

    • DaveH

      Achtung!

  • http://www.diyyardandhome.com Dan

    His “isolation” as described is inaccurate. He is in a cell with by himself. The front of the cell is barred and there are cells on either side and if occupied he can converse with those individuals. It’s not like he is in a closed room with a door that has a single window opening. This is not torture and there are many individuals who are in similar cells for many reason. His isolation is more than like due to the perceived threat to his personal well being. If he was in the general population he would be in danger of retaliatory violence. The prisoners in military prisons are a little better disciplined than civilian prisons simply because of their training. This does not mean the general population would treat him any better though.

    He violated federal and military law. He does deserve punishment. I know it may be hard for many to understand he is not an average citizen subject to civilian laws but a military member who violated the UCMJ. As far as his time in confinement without a trail, that is the norm since it is usually the individuals own lawyers who delay a trail and not the prosecution.

    If he is found guilty he would more than likely end up back in isolation simply because a lot of military members would see him as a traitor.

    • Bob

      You hit the nail right on the head Dan.

    • Bruce D.

      Thanks Dan for the clarity. I do not think it good for anyone when someone puts out questionable articles without finding out the truth first. We should not really hate government or like it. Each story should stand on truth without adding emotional color to it.

      • Harold Olsen

        Based on what I know about Salon.com, Greenwald most likely had all the facts but just put what he wanted into his story, trying to gain sympathy for Manning.. He is probably one of those idiots like Michael Moore and Ron Paul who consider Manning a hero for what he did.

    • James

      Dan, I’m curious. How do you know that Manning is in such a cell and can see and convese with other prisoners? All I’ve seen is the artist’s drawing in this article.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Dan,

      Sorry, but I believe you are incorrect. Manning is being held in extreme isolation. There is no contact with other prisoners. He’s even being denied basics like a sheet and pillow. In short, the government is being quite punitive in its treatment of him. And remember the important point: He has not yet been convicted of any crime.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Jana

        Bob Livingston,
        Does he have a lawyer? He has been seen by someone since he has been given drugs for depression, and the guards see him, but is he being represented by anybody? What about his parents?
        He should be allowed to have a pillow and a sheet as well as a few other amenities. He may be and probably is guilty of treason, but he does deserve reasonable treatment till he has a trial. Then punishment is meted out.
        I would sure like to know more.

      • Jana

        I see that his title was ARMY INTELLIGENCE ANALYST. So it says he was capable of having information or gaining information that he shouldn’t have. Our teenagers and 22 yr. olds have grown up with computers and know how to use them, in some cases way to well.

      • Stan Smith

        The reason he had no sheets they could have put him on suicide watch In case if he try to kill himself!

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Stan Smith,

        He is not on a suicide watch. There is no reason to deny him basic amenities other than punitive.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Stan Smith

        Dear Stan Smith,

        He is not on a suicide watch. There is no reason to deny him basic amenities other than punitive.

        Best wishes,
        Bob
        I know but I was just guessing Then again they could keep this thing quiet But we may never know!

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Bob Livinston,

        That is scary.

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner
    • Bruce D.

      You really had me there Dan. Now I think you really need to state your source. I want to believe you because I want to think better of our government. Right now Bob is giving me doubts about your story.

      • DaveH

        Bruce,
        No offence, but I was wondering why you so quickly assumed Dan’s statement as true?

      • Bruce D.

        I thought he was a military man and not left wing.

    • HFlashman

      Who says he violated any law? Any proof or evidence to substantiate charges? Think about that.

  • http://none Mike

    Sounds to me like if they cant just make him dissappear they will drive him insane.I wonder if this no contact holding of him is in some way out of fear for what he might have to say in his own defence? If so we will probly never know the truth like so many other things buried by our beloved goverment. Innocent until proven guilty?I think not this is a dangerous precips we stand on right now. So close to totalatarian its pathetic. Mike L.

    • http://naver samurai

      Looks like the Obama bin Laden administration also believes in using torture in some ways. I guess the libs can’t just blame Bush anymore. Their “messiah” does it too. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      P.S. If he intentionally did this act, he’ll probably be hoping for a long sentence instead of the alternate punishment – death. Since we are at war, people that do things like this tend to be facing a firing squad. Where this immature soldier got the idea in his head to do these things is unbelievable. I wish him the best. Military justice and be swift, but also messes you up for the rest of your life.

      • Teresa

        I agree

      • Bus

        sounds like we’re learning from the Gulag system.

      • Bruce D.

        Jeff Paterson, who runs Manning’s legal defense fund, told The Huffington Post. “His attorney and supporters were hoping that this could be taken care of through the appropriate channels.
        I just found this. If he has an attorney than a lot of people are just talking crap here.

      • Bruce D.

        Good point that in a time of war, which we are, he could be shot for doing what he did. Maybe he should be if what he did leads to even one person dying or aids and abeits Alqueda or the Taliban in any way. That being said he needs to have a trial to ascertain just what kind and of harm he has done and the penalty should fit the crime. The Army shames America by giving him mind altering drugs. By the time they are done with him he won’t care whether he is in jail or not. It is not likely that there is a threat of violence that would justify isolation and no exercise. If you want to shoot him for treason and it is justified then shoot him. But the punishment should fit the crime or it puts us all at risk.

      • Wanda Murline

        If I am correct, he was depressed before he alledgedly released all of this information. Why is no one new media posting that this guy is gay and was feeling overwhelmed and insecure and this is one of the reasons that he decided to steal the information and release it to the public? This information has been withheld from the public via the alphabet news media and even this site. Let’s look at the whole picture and when you have ALL the pertinent information, then make some rational as to why this guy did what he did, and what his punishment may be. I think he already had a mental incapacity and his being gay had something to do with it. Maybe he is getting antidepressents for his depression that he already had before he leaked this information. God, I wish that someone would report the whole story, not just pick and chose what they want to report….that is what the government does regarding laws on the books…they rally behind laws that they like (Patriot Act), and ignore laws that they don’t want to deal with (Immigration). All laws need to be adhered to and the big one is the Constitution.

      • Bruce D.

        I agree with you on that. We are all doing a lot of guessing with this story. I think someone on this site posted he was gay but I have not heard it on the news. I am not sure if that is relevant as the military is not dumb enough to accept that as a justification for treason. What needs to be known is if any information was leaked that aided and abetted Alqueda or the Taliban. If it has he should get life in prison along with the other guy.

      • crystal

        The media is hiding the fact that he’s a homosexual because it would fly in the face of them trying to repeal DADT. Manning went on many homosexual tangents during his time in the military. There is no doubt that he’s guilty and should be taken outside and shot. No room for treason.

      • Jana

        He may be isolated because he is in danger of being harmed by other prisoners as he has been labeled as a traitor to our country. There are different reasons to be isolated than to just punish.

      • Charie

        Wanda, I’m with you. I hate cherry-picked stories and that’s pretty much what we get all the time. I want someone to tell the truth for a change!!

      • marvin

        Bruce D.
        i would say that the solater is keeping him a live

      • Gary

        That’s Obama bin Biden

      • DaveH

        We are not at War. War has not been declared by Congress.

      • DaveH

        It is just one of the many constitutional usurpations that our dictators have taken.

      • Bruce D.

        The use of military force was authorized by Congress. I know Obama wants to call it a police action and try people in civilian courts but either way both military actions were voted on and authorized by congress.

      • Bruce D.

        James Madison reported that in the Federal Convention of 1787, the phrase “make war” was changed to “declare war” in order to leave to the Executive the power to repel sudden attacks but not to commence war without the explicit approval of Congress. The expressed approval was given by an overwhhelming majority in Congress. Congress can vote at any time to bring the troups home as they did in the Vietnam War and also cut off funding as they did in the Vietnam War. They have never lost that power.

      • DaveH

        Word games, Bruce. That’s all.

      • DaveH

        You are the first to complain when the Liberals use the Commerce Clause as their justification to do just about anything they please. How about breaking their mold and not behaving similarly?

      • Bruce D.

        DaveH you get so offended when I disagree with you. I am not a Libertarian and I do not agree with everything you say. Why would you expect people to agree with you al the time as Libertarians ony represent a very small part of the population. It has nothing to do with word games. The intent of the Constitution is that the Congress has the power for the continuance of a war or to stop a war if action is taken by the President. In this case a vote was taken by Congress approving the action. Congress can start bringing the troupes home any time they want to. Congress has chosen to continue the war even when the left had sixty senators and could have easily ended it. The intent of the Constitution is intact.

      • Bruce D.

        Also this has nothing to do with the commerce clause.

      • DaveH

        My commerce clause point was that the left use it to usurp the main intent of the Constitution, just as you are doing with the War Powers clause.

      • Vicki

        So Bruce D I still do not see evidence from you or anyone else that we are at war. If we are then with whom are we at war? Notice I ignore word games like “war on poverty”, “war on (some) drugs”, “War on terror”. With whom are we at war and when was the war declared and who in Congress voted for it and who voted against it.

        Absent actual cites I most presume that you like so many others are playing out an exact part from the story “1984″. And our masters are using our foolish belief that we are at war with “somebody, somewhere” to stifle opposition. When Bush was in the WhiteHouse, liberals complained daily that they were being demonized for their “patriotic” actions opposing Bush. Now that it is THEIR OX, suddenly opposing Obama and HIS use of our military is (surprise) un patriotic. Theo obvious common theme here is opposing the regime is un-patriotic. How Banana Republic of us.

      • Bruce D.

        Vicki I think Dennis Cucinish is the only one who did not vote for it. If you do not know that there is a war going on where have you been for the last eight years. It is you and DaveH who are playing the words games. Somehow you are both managing to avoid reaity.

      • Vicki

        Bruce D. Show me the Declaration of War. Otherwise you are just another person advocating a lawless society.

      • USNpops

        Congress may hot have the balls to declare the war against terrorism, but the majority of people in this country are beginning to realize that we are at war – a war on terror.
        Call it what you will, the attacks on 9/11, against the Marine Barracks, and the USS cole, were not just “Man Made Disasters”, but rather salvos in the Jihadist War Against America and our way of life.
        And there are threats that we have not seen the worst yet. But still our government refuses to recognize that we are the targets of a war that we refuse to recognize and put our maximum strength and will on the front lines in an effort to be the victors.

      • Vicki

        It is really hard to fight a war on terror. Who are its soldiers. What is their uniform? Where is their nation. What are they attacking. How about we tell our government that we have already WON the war on terror by being NOT afraid. http://www.downsizedc.org/etp/campaigns/77

        Yes winning the war on terror is just THAT easy. Terror will have lost. Then if there is a puppet master pulling the strings he or she will have to come out from behind that silly curtain. Declare war on that person or persons. A war on a feeling can only be won by those who are having the feeling. Choose to NOT be afraid. Tell congress to stop being afraid on your behalf.

      • Kate8

        Vicki, Bruce, Dave, It seems to me that our biggest problem is our own government, not terrorists. Or maybe they are the biggest terrorists.

        Our own country has turned against us, and we fight amonst ourselves. If our own government performed it’s duty, foreign terrorist would not be a problem.

        Washington, backed by foreign elites, has turned against us. What has happened to this poor soul will soon come to all those who wish to preserve our Constitutional Republic. In fact, it is on a fast-track.

        I have been appalled at what I’ve learned about those we thought were the good guys. In the end, it is up to us.

      • PATRICIA

        Where were you when Congress voted to declare war on Irag?? The one they keep blaming President Bush for and now Obama has extended it to Afghanistan

      • William Barry

        We ARE at war, whether you believe it or not… whether you wanted it to happen or not. We can pull out, pack up our toys and come back home, but the enemy will never stop hunting us, never stop stalking and killing us for no other reason than who and what we are.

        They hate us because we exist.
        They hate us because we are not like them.
        They hate us because we stand in the way of their drive for universal and absolute supremacy.
        They also believe they are superior to us, and they believe that gives them the right to hate us.

        You cannot reason with people who think like this, and you cannot defeat them with peaceful platitudes. You can only fight them and hope you inflict enough defeats upon them to make them reconsider, or you can die.

        The choice is yours.

      • marvin

        DaveH
        hell i thoght that when hille clinton was a senitor that they voted to go to war with iran

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Marvin,
        you mean Iraq.

      • RivahMitch

        Sorry but, as a combat vet my feeling is that he clearly violated his oath of office and for deliberately disseminating classified information (this is not a case of conscientious objection to an illegal order) that jeopardizes the lives of others he should be held incommunicado untle executed.

      • DaveH

        Yeah, sure, hold him incommunicado so he can’t tell his side of the story.
        How fortunate for leaders that men do not think — Adolf Hitler

      • Bruce D.

        It is easy for you to criticize from the comfort of your home DaveH. This soldier is putting his life on the line and he doesn’t like it.
        …”this is not a case of conscientious objection to an illegal order..” I agree with that statement. I do not think the imprisoned solder is the hero many think he is. I think his intention was to cause harm in any way he could. I am sure left wing organizations will come to his aid before long and his story will be told. It needs some time to play out as there is still more information not released that could put our troupes in danger and those giving intelligence.

      • Vicki

        Political secrets protect tyrants. Military secrets have a very short shelf life and need to be shown the light of the people. Should we have the military our founders designed for us military secrets would be short and naturally secret. Secret just long enough to fight and win. Once the battle is over the only reason to keep it a secret is to protect the guilty.

      • DaveH

        Where are you criticizing from Bruce? Your workplace?
        The greatest threat to our nation is from the military state which sheeple like you support. Hitler would have loved you.

      • marvin

        DaveH
        just what story should he tell, he down load thousands of classified documents what do you want him to say i had a lover spat with my boy friend and had nothing better to do then put lives in danger

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Vicki,
        In battle there are often locals that helpin your confrontations with the enemy. In a war such as this we have going right now, those people need to be protected for the rest of their life! Those type of informants save American lives!

      • DaveH

        This is how the pushy controlling Muslims are working their magic:
        http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/UK-Red-Cross-Christmas/2010/12/17/id/380244

        We send our soldiers far away to die for what? Do we really think we will change these people?
        And then we give ground to them on the home front. And, I know, it is in the United Kingdom. Same difference. What is wrong with this picture?

      • http://none Mike

        Samurai, I just have way to many questions now. And the treatment and behavior surrounding this whole mess is makeing thoes questions grow and grow. Just how far up did this go? Did he have help? What is the true nature of what Assange Still has? There is a reason these 2 are still alive and this wasent buried before this ever came out?No Now I want answers and to get thoes this guy needs to testify. Not be driven to mindlessness.Yet I see many many people here who want a swift fireing squad for this guy with no answers comming from the dead I just dont see it. Mike L.

      • Vicki

        Killing them quickly protects the guilty as LH Oswald could tell us. Opps.

      • http://none Mike

        Vicki, Many secrets are buried with their carriers. I see you have studied this too with your later NG link. I use Discovery and History much the same way. Amazing how these 2 channels are owned by the British isnt it. :) No there is a reason this guy is being held in a dark cell in the deepst recesses of our prison system. My mind begs me to ask What is it?

        On a secondary note isnt it suppriseing to you that so many here that wouldent trust the goverment to blow their own noses. Are so willing to trust them in this. Scitzophrenia on display. Mike L.

      • Teresa

        Vicki, you stated: So Bruce D I still do not see evidence from you or anyone else that we are at war.

        If you can not see that we are at war then you need to open your eyes wider…we are at the greatest war of all times….the war of our very freedom is at stake and the war on terror for the pure and stupid fact of political correctness and our Constitution is being destroyed.
        Again, if you do NOT see this war you are blind.

      • http://none Mike

        Teresa, Yes this is a war. But it is a war unlike any we have ever fouht. This is a war against an Idealog.This war has no border that is well defined. It has no city on a hill to be defeated. It has no clear leaders out there. You might point out Osama Bin Ladin but you would be wrong as everyone else is. This is not a war as we have ever defined war. Its one we cant win with guns. We can elimante every leader they have and yet another will still arise from the ashes.

        This is a war we can win but we will only do so if we figure out the reasons for it. These people who are drawn to this Idealog are not living in the same world as us. And no matter how many we kill we will never kill Ignorance. This area of the world still lives in the fog of 12th and 13th centurey beliefs.Untill the point we raise these people up to a level where they can at least understand the world they live in. These Idealogs will continue to rise up in this area of the world. So yes it is a war but its a war that we need to understand to win.Mike L.

      • Vicki

        Mike says:
        “On a secondary note isnt it suppriseing to you that so many here that wouldent trust the goverment to blow their own noses. Are so willing to trust them in this. Scitzophrenia on display. Mike L.”

        It is not surprising though it is depressing. But ride we must. Ring the bells we must. The secrets and deceit and lies must die so that we can become again the land of the (actually) free. (We are still the home of the brave)

      • Vicki

        Teresa I am still waiting for you to show me the declaration, properly signed by Congress. The Truth is ALWAYS at war with the lies. A possibly misguided soul released some truth that your masters are upset about. That is the war in which we fight but a single battle here today in this thread. Do you fight with and for Truth or with your masters?

        The battle lines have been drawn. Truth, Justice and the American way on one side. Banana Republic on the other. Choose your path.

      • Dan az

        Mike
        I remember watching a you tube awhile back that a helicopter was asking for permission to ingage on some muslims in irag.The door gunner Im pretty sure was this guy.He released the footage and got in trouble.So maybe this is just a way for him to get back at them who knows.

      • Apache6

        HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT FOR TREASON BY NOW!!!!!!

      • Palin12

        Just for laughs….Obama on Mt. Rushmore video….this will make your day LOL
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVw-H9KDBLs&feature=grec_index

    • John Mathews

      I think they are being too easy on him. They should take him out and hang him.

    • HFlashman

      Wow … now folks on the wacked Right are refuting exactly the concets and treatment they espoused and shouted for. Detention without charges, no right to counsel, indefinite period before trial or hearing, complete secrecy and no contact by prisoners, no hearing of evidence … exactly what the Right wanted.

      You got what you asked for. Happy now?

      • Bruce D.

        Everyone is just guessing. The truth is we do not know if he is receiving council or not. Those who are anti-government are assuming that. Those who feel there is still information not released that could cause people to die do not want that information released. In any case he should be given legal council without a doubt. He is in the military an there are serious consequences to aiding and abetting the enemy if proven to be true.

      • Vicki

        If he swore the oath to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic then how is exposing the domestic enemy of the Constitution a treasonous act?

        Secrets protect tyrants.

      • texastwin827

        Vicki, based on our assumption, I presume George Washington’s battle plans would have been “open game” as far as you are concerned.

        While the petty stuff may be fair game, when this man (and Assange) starts publishing targets, info about troops movements and names of people that are “undercover” so to speak, then it has taken one step too many in the name of “whistleblowing”.

        Military movements and info about personnel have been “classified” every since George Washington fought his first battle. To say, in today’s times, “we have a right to know” is pure BS! If it were one of your family members who worked at a “target” or was the one who was revealed, you would not likely feel that way.

        As for Assange…sorry to disagree with y’all…he is arrogant, egotistical & money driven (from millions in donations that he doesn’t account for, to anyone…and it’s not his overhead that he spends it on) and it has nothing to do with being a whistleblower….

      • Vicki

        texastwin827 says:
        “Vicki, based on our assumption, I presume George Washington’s battle plans would have been “open game” as far as you are concerned.”

        I presume you meant “your” rather than our assumption. You must be new here thus you have not seen my full statements on military secrets. Here is the short form

        Military secrets (GWs battle plans) will naturally be kept secret for the SHORT time necessary to wage and win that battle. After the battle is won the secret if kept only serves to protect the guilty. For example the links above that DaveH posted showing the leaks where American soldiers killed (murdered) non-combatants. (Anyone remember Mi Lai?
        http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,840403,00.html)

        In a proper defense system as envisioned and created by our founding fathers there would be naturally kept secrets before and during battle. After battle the stories can and should be told in ballad and song.

        Secrets protect the guilty and tyrant.

      • Bruce D.

        Secrets also protect military men in a time of war Vicki. Should we not have secrets from Iran or North Korea.

      • Vicki

        Bruce D. says:
        “Secrets also protect military men in a time of war Vicki. Should we not have secrets from Iran or North Korea.”

        Since we are not at war with Iran or NKorea your point is moot. Should we go to war with either then we can keep battle plans secret long enough to execute the plan, win and then write songs and ballads about the battle. Secrets of that battle no longer needed.

      • Kate8

        Vicki – good point. We seem to have lost track of the fact that we’ve got foreign and domestic enemies in charge of the country right now.

      • Teresa

        I believe he should be given a fair trial, everyone associated w/his involvment if any and if he was the one tried and hanged for treason, end of story.

    • http://www.restorethebalance.us Glenn Neal

      Mike, your comment, “So close to totalatarian its pathetic,” is right on—but for the wrong reason. The real danger to the country is politicians in Washington.

      But I digress: Manning is a member of the United States Army, which tells me four things:
      (1) He is a volunteer.
      (2) He chose to be in the Army. He was not drafted;
      (3) He swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States, to obey the lawful orders of those appointed over him, and to be bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. He received training on the physical skills of a soldier, AND he also was trained about his oath and what circumscribed his behavior—The Uniform Code of Military Justice. As I recall, the training was thorough and left no doubt as to what is expected of military personnel. If you haven’t served in any branch of the uniformed service, you may not know that.
      (4) If a soldier gives away his country’s secrets, it’s kind of like being “a little bit pregnant.” If he is willing to give away secret diplomatic cables, what is there to prevent him (or another soldier who happens to be angry at the Army or someone in the Army) from giving away military troop movements—allowing an enemy to ambush and kill those troops? And, how would that be different from the alleged “fragging” that went on in Viet Nam? They are all criminal acts.

      None of us have the whole story and should be cautious about making judgments. Does he know more than we have heard about so far? Could he be a risk for releasing more secrets if allowed to communicate with the outside world?

      Personally, I sleep better knowing he is under control and not very likely to further damage the security of this country.

      Giving away your country’s secrets is a pathetic, pitiful, cowardly way to get revenge when you are angry with the Army or about some individual slight—real or imagined. Whatever your beef, you have no right to put other people’s lives at unnecessary risk.

      • Jana

        Glenn Neal,
        This was a very good post and you make a lot of good common sense.

      • DaveH

        I guess these people’s lives don’t count:
        http://www.collateralmurder.com/

      • USNpops

        It is a shame that there is collateral killing in war. Think about the attack on Pearl harbor, many innocents were killed in that conflict. The constant bombing of Londen by the Nazis, intended to inflict Maximum civilian damage, and not aimed at military targets on purpose.
        In wartime there will be civilian casualties. In wartime sometimes the worst in a person will be brought out and they will do some things they should’nt. Being in a situation where the next person you see may be a living bomb ready to kill you every day, would tend to change your mind on mercy. And the military deals with these situations on a daily basis. The rules of engagement of this war are so restrictive that they have caused many of our troops to be killed because they hesitated when they should have been defending.
        And also bear in mind our troops are in a position where the enemy will use their own children, wives and mothers as shields for their deeds. Then accuse us of brutality when there are losses of innocent lives.
        And many gullible goody two shoes, who have never put their life on the line for their country sit back and judge the actions of those that are putting it on the line every day so they can sit safely by their fireside and complain about the brutality of war.
        Go through the list of people in congress, and the Commander in Chief, and see how few of them ever served in the military, and yet are in positions of authority over the military.

      • Bruce D.

        Good post USNpops. I agree with what you are saying as I feel the same way. Many cannot understand that from the comfort of their own home. Many soldiers are just kids themselves. Some make bad decisions and there may be a few that do not care. The overwhelming majority of our soldiers are trying to do the best they can and come home alive. I support them and I am proud of their courage. It was not their decision to go to war. The Congress authorized it and bad things happen in war. You hope they don’t but they do.

      • Vicki

        If you can accept collateral deaths in fighting against enemies foreign then why are you so upset that there may be collateral deaths when fighting enemies domestic?

      • DaveH

        That was outright murder, Pops. Maybe you and Bruce and others can dance around the english language to justify it, but I can’t. Why are we even over there, if not to save lives? So, how do you square the reckless taking of personal lives with that? It’s no wonder the Liberals don’t take your morality seriously when you accuse them of wrong doing by helping themselves to the money of others. You’ve got no legs. You’re no damn better than the Liberals.

      • Bruce D.

        DaveH I see you are in bed with John Kerry on this one.

      • DaveH

        I see you are in bed with the Devil, Bruce. It’s funny that as an Atheist, I adhere much more rigorously to moral code than do you Right-Wingers.

      • Bruce D.

        What moral code it that Dave. That American soldiers are murderers.

      • DaveH

        Killing people other than in self-defense is Murder, Bruce. It doesn’t matter whether that killing is sanctioned by ordinary people or people in Government.
        I wouldn’t expect you to understand that concept. You are just another of the useful tools that tyrants rely on when they do their evil deeds.

      • Kate8

        DaveH – I still just can’t help thinking that the timing of this has more to do with controlling the media, and especially the internet.

        I trust nothing the media reports. Everything is spun. Much is contrived.

        Is this man a patriot or a traitor? Without all the facts, we’ll never known. But it will be used in the move to control what we hear.

      • DaveH

        I’m sure you’ve noticed, Kate, how Government uses every event as an excuse for more growth. Yet, things keep happening, no matter how much more “protection” they add. And useful tools like Bruce buy into the bull.

      • http://none Mike

        Glenn, I used that line to make a point. Are we now takeing political prisoners here in our beloved america. This privet isnt the only one. He is just the most recent in a long line of oversteps by our goverment. Ruby Ridge and Waco Texas come to mind for a couple of more recent ones. You have Wesly Snipes going to prison for 3 years for standing up and saying taxes are illeagle. There are many many more.

        They all seem to be leading to the same place though. That deep dark hole of totalanarism. Where every thing we say do and think is to be scruitinized by our wonderful goverment all in the name of security. Mike L.

    • alwaysright

      He’s already insane. He’s a freakin’ fruitbar who sings along with “Lady” gag-uh and was working on a sex change. Ya think that might be part of the overall problem?? no-DADT? TGFFF (Thank God For Friendly Fire)

    • Violet

      They haven’t proven anything and this is similar to the CIA tactics by psychiatrist Cameron used back in the LSD and psychic driving to erase personality and then reprogram. The USA government is capable of evil as any other government is. Just read history.

    • old white guy

      mike , if it was ww2 the idiot would already have been shot for treason.

      • http://none Mike

        Most likely you are right about that. But it isnt WW2. We had a declared war there against a defined enemy. Here we have a series of memmos between our illusterious diplomats about their bungeling of their jobs. Being fully coverd up by our goverment to CYA an adminastration that has no clue as to what its really doing.Mike L.

    • Olaf

      Come on you people, has he been convicted of anything? Up to this point in time he is innocent but is frying in a slammer because someone dreamed up he is guilty. What kind of justice do you have in the US? Mob justice? Yes, indeed that is all what it is and that comes out of the US. The US is supposed to be leading the world on free speech and justice for all. Looking at this case I know there is more justice in Zimbabwe.Shame on you you poison the air I breathe.

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