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Rendell's Retreat

December 2, 2010 by  

Rendell's Retreat

“What more sacred, what more strongly guarded by every holy feeling, than a man’s own home.”
— Marcus Tullius Cicero

“Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife."
— Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., in
Brown v US, 1921.

“I do not believe that in a civilized society we should encourage violent and deadly confrontation when the victim can safely protect themselves (sic) [through retreat].”
— Outgoing Governor Ed Rendell (D-Pa.)

If your home is your castle and is so sacrosanct that 2 millennia worth of brighter lights than Pennsylvania Governor, Ed Rendell believe you have the right to defend it, then is it not reasonable to extend the same protections to your person as your property?

Rendell thinks not, expecting “detached reflection.” Thus, he used his waning authority to veto a bill expanding Pennsylvania’s Castle Doctrine to include the right to use deadly force to repel attackers, even if the potential victim is outside his or her home.

The bill, which passed with overwhelming majorities in both houses of the state legislature, would have guaranteed Pennsylvanians the same rights held by the citizens of more than 30 states. By vetoing it last Saturday, Rendell ensured that the bill couldn’t be rescued from the clutches of liberalism before a state assembly veto-override deadline.

Unfortunately for the good people of Pennsylvania, they may have to wait a minute for a rescue from the clutches of an armed felon. Rendell, who spends his days surrounded by a State Police security detail, is highly unlikely to experience the sort of moment for which the bill was intended. Perhaps a stroll through South Philly after 3 a.m. might change his perspective.

And perspective is the key to the “stand your ground” philosophy of self-defense. Liberals like Rendell, irrationally terrified of firearms because of what they MIGHT represent, prefer to encourage flight over fight. But the proud citizen, imbued with the spirit of freedom tempered with responsibility, knows that flight is not only sometimes impossible, but ALWAYS illogical.

Why should a law-abiding citizen be forced to run for his life when he is perfectly capable of defending himself? For liberals like Rendell, the response is simple: The law-abiding citizen is easier to control through legislation. The armed felon isn’t likely to simply give up his life of crime and get a day job because the Governor of Pennsylvania wants him to.

In 1895, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Beard v US:

“A man assailed on his own grounds, without provocation, by a person… apparently seeking his life is not obliged to retreat, but may stand his ground and defend himself …” (emphasis mine)

A liberal would read that quote and remark that 1895 was a far different time; armed confrontations were more frequent, and less likely to draw a timely response from Pennsylvania’s finest. I would remark in turn by suggesting the liberal visit gang-ridden Allentown late on a Saturday night.

Anti-Bill of Rights Groups like the Brady Campaign and the Violence Prevention Center presume that WE can’t be trusted; that stand-your-ground laws would cause American society to degenerate into a Wild-West dystopia. The fact that society has certainly not done so is immaterial. We’re easier to effect laws upon, because we’re more likely to observe them. Perhaps the next time a Pennsylvanian is staring down the barrel of a mugger’s or rapist’s gun, he or she can call the Violence Prevention Center to ride out and leaflet the assailant into submission.

According to the Department of Justice, violent crime in the United States has dropped precipitously in the last 30 years — a decline which coincides with a rise of States adopting laws which allow the use of deadly force in self-defense. In fact, since 1993, the number of total violent crimes in the U.S. has dropped from more than 4 million to fewer than 2 million. I somehow doubt “midnight basketball” deserves the credit.

In the Constitution of the United States, the 4th Amendment states:

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated…”

What more unreasonable seizure of the aforementioned security exists than the attempted taking of it by a criminal? And since the 2nd Amendment guarantees us the right to bear arms, why should any of us, from Philadelphia to Phoenix, immediately start looking for the exit when such seizure is threatened?

As for Rendell, the Brady Campaign and the Violence Prevention Center, I am fortunate to live in a state which does allow me to stand my ground. And for the thugs who might consider testing me:

“Go ahead, make my day.” — SFPD Inspector “Dirty” Harry Callahan

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

    Jefferson;

    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. … Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. — (Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764; see below)

    • 45caliber

      True.

      A “hot” burglary is one where the burglar KNOWS the owner is home when he breaks into a house to rob it. In the US, less than 10% of all burglaries are hot.

      But in England, since they have banned guns, 90% are hot. The criminals know they are safe so they want to force the owner to give them anything hidden as well as open.

      In fact, one 80+ year old woman had her house wrapped in barbed wire since a couple of burglars were robbing her right after she received her SS (equivalent) check every month. The police made her remove it because it might “harm a burglar”.

  • Mick

    2WarAbnVet says:
    December 2, 2010 at 10:17 am
    “Those who deny me the freedom to carry a firearm with which to protect my family and myself, are as complicit and guilty as the perpetrator should we be harmed or murdered by an act of violence.”
    - Charles F. “Chuck” Bearden
    **********************************

    CAN’T ARGUE WITH THAT 2WarAbnVet………

  • 2WarAbnVet

    “Those who deny me the freedom to carry a firearm with which to protect my family and myself, are as complicit and guilty as the perpetrator should we be harmed or murdered by an act of violence.”
    - Charles F. “Chuck” Bearden

    • Tony

      2WarAbnVet, I believe that pretty much says it all. Thanks!

    • 45caliber

      I agree. And I wish we could file charges against them for it too. But Congress and state legislators are exempt from such things.

  • Bob Wire

    It sounds more like “political” rangling then a ideology to me.

    As we find so often in politics , a simple up or down vote fails to offer anyone a complete view of any one issue or position.

    Political hay ~

    Where might we be without political hay?

    I truly doubt if anyone expects citizens to offer a defenseless posture.

    As told me by the ancient ones, “There more then one way to skin a cat”

    • 45caliber

      But skinning that cat is very difficult without the proper tools. In fact, if you aren’t careful, that cat can skin you.

  • Mick

    Karolyn says:
    December 2, 2010 at 9:29 am
    Rendell the Ridiculous! Before I moved to SC, I was totally anti-gun. However, since moving to SC, where everybody has at LEAST gun (except me!), I have become more relaxed with gun ownership. In our county, crime is very low except for drugs and domestic abuse; and I believe it is so because criminals know that most homeowners do own guns. I don’t because I believe that having a gun means you are expecting something to happen; and when you expect something to happen, it will. I live in the woods by myself. I do have a dog, but I think he would hide behind me if somebody broke in. Oh, btw, they would not have to break in because I never lock my doors.
    *******************************************
    Karolyn ……….It’s fine and dandy but try that in a Urban area, don’t forget that our society’s mentality has change drastically since the days when we all could leave our doors unlocked and even then people had guns just in case for some fluke some nut would try to burglarize, rape or kill you.
    We have guns locked and ready to go and will not hesitate to use them, the only part that bothers me about the whole deal is that i have to worry more about the 12 jurors at my trial, with my luck half of them would be liberals.

    • Vicki

      They would all have to find you guilty so you should be ok.

    • libertytrain

      Mick – I live on a mountain – rural and in NC – I lock my doors and would be more inclined in SC.

  • Karolyn

    Rendell the Ridiculous! Before I moved to SC, I was totally anti-gun. However, since moving to SC, where everybody has at LEAST gun (except me!), I have become more relaxed with gun ownership. In our county, crime is very low except for drugs and domestic abuse; and I believe it is so because criminals know that most homeowners do own guns. I don’t because I believe that having a gun means you are expecting something to happen; and when you expect something to happen, it will. I live in the woods by myself. I do have a dog, but I think he would hide behind me if somebody broke in. Oh, btw, they would not have to break in because I never lock my doors.

    • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

      Karolyn,

      Keep in mind.
      Cesare Beccaria, 18th Century Italian Criminologist
      The laws that forbid the carrying of arms … serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

    • 45caliber

      Karolyn:

      You better lock your doors. I grew up in Arkansas where we didn’t even have locks on the doors. But … there is a court ruling that if you leave your doors unlocked and someone gets in and takes something (gun, knife, whatever) using in a crime you can be sued because you didn’t take measures to prevent them from entering. If they break in, you are free and clear.

      My wife and I started locking our doors about 5 years ago due to that.

      • Claire

        45caliber–Back in the 50s and 60s we always left our car keys in the ignition. Remember that? At least we never had to “look” for our keys when we wanted to go somewhere. My husband and I lived in a small town and there was never any crime. The days of innocence.

      • Al Sieber

        Claire, I still leave my keys in the ignition most places I got theres not much stealing here. I sure hope your husband starts feeling better.

      • Dan az

        Hey Al
        Im the same here all of my cars have keys in them just incase someone needs a car.The house dosent even have a lock but dose have a very big rottwiller that will let you in but wont let you out.He’s a roman rott and weighs 180 lbs.Never had a problem here either!

      • Claire

        Al Sieber—I always hang my car keys by the front door–that way I never have to look for them! My husband has a lot of issues, it is almost unbelievable. He is such a good person. Sometimes I want to rant and rave because I think it is so unfair. Bad things should not happen to good people but this is what life is all about. A person has to take the good along with the bad. If a person has their health they are very fortunate. Thank you for your kind words.

      • Claire

        Dan az—You have a Rottie!!! I had a Rottie back in the early 80s. He was a rescue. We named him Bon Bon. He was a wonderful dog. He was so good with the family. He looved his basketball and he was a good watchdog. He never barked much but when he did we paid attention. I cannot say enough good things about Bon. He loved us and we loved him. He was about ten and a half years old when we had to put him down. He had liver cancer. It is very hard to part with a good dog.

      • Dan az

        Claire
        His name is Jake and it fits.He thinks hes the great protector especially of my youngest grandson.Ive had rotties only for about 20 years now and probably wouldnt have any other kind.But you know there bad trait and I have to ask,He sleeps at the foot of the bed and being 180 lbs he is huge the question is how do you get rid of the unbelievably long drown out FARTS?

      • Claire

        Dan az–I know what you mean about farts. Silent but deadly. Bon would never sleep on the bed, he laid on a big dog bed on the floor. He weighed about 110 pounds. He was short and stocky built. He would “break wind” once in a awhile but not too often. When he did, we all scattered! I would use the air sanitizer.
        One time in the middle of the night Bon started barking and raising heck. We got up, the next thing we knew fire engines were racing down out street. Four houses down from us, a house was on fire. John and Nancy got out with their little dog but their house was burned to the ground. John had a heart attack a couple of days later and was never able to work again. It was tragic. They lost everything and they stood in the street crying. We all cried. What amazes me is that Bon started barking BEFORE the fire engines arrived! Bon knew something bad was happening. Yes, dogs are man’s best friend.

      • Dan az

        Claire
        That is so true when jakes out on the porch I watch him stick his nose up in the air and I can tell there is some cows coming and about ten minutes later there they are.Sorry to here about your friends.

    • JeffH

      Karolyn, good that you’ve become more “comfortable” with guns.

      However,I’ll say this, not meant to be critical but informational. Your statement that if you own a gun you are expecting a crime to happen and a shooting will be more likely is totally erroneous.

      There are probably more people that buy their guns primarily for hunting and shooting sports and I would suspect more often than not,a purchase exclusivly for self protection is secondary but a very important consideration.

      More than 19 million Americans safely participate in target shooting alone and reports estimates that approximatly 21.8 million Americans hunted at least once during the past five years.

      Could I suggest taking a peak at this website, the National Shooting Sports Foundation. Their Mission Statement: To promote, protect and preserve hunting and the shooting sports.
      http://www.nssf.org/industry/aboutNSSF.cfm

      • Angel Wannabe

        Jeffh, Your around my age, you had to be raised with guns and they’re use, like I was. Hell, I shot my Dads 30.6 at 9 years old__I went all over tin cups off the picnic table, b/c Dad hadn’t put the recoil on yet and I held it sloppy at my shoulder.__but I shot, Shotguns and pistols__in my 30′s I learned how to use a compound bow and arrow__If all else fails, my days in women’s baseball’ll come in handy, cuz i can still swing a bat!__line__ People must stay or get educated about safety and the use of firearms.

      • 45caliber

        Just 9?? I started shooting at 5 – just like everyone else I knew. My kids started then too.

      • Angel Wannabe

        I do just fine 45! :)

      • JeffH

        Angel and 45caliber, I was raised around shotguns but wasn’t allowed to shoot one until I turned 11 at a fun “ham shoot” with my dad’s dog club, German Shorthair Club of California. I ended up with a bloody nose, the shotgun was a bit bigger than I was. I’d been going bird hunting with my dad since I was 6 or 7 and I bought my first shotgun when I was 14. I didn’t own a rifle until I was 26, in 1976 and bought my first handgun, a Colt Python, in 1981. Guns have always been a part of something I love and I appreciate all types of guns, like a good bottle of wine or fine artwork. It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.
        Guns don’t make bad people, people make bad people.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Well said!__Jeffh

      • 45caliber

        Jeff:

        Agreed. As an ex-hillbilly, I’ve been around guns or shooting them all my life. I like them fine even though my wife is uncertain that I need that many.

      • JeffH

        45caliber, I’d like to get back what I had to sell while I was out of work back in ’07…a heartbreak and 40+ years of collecting…but I had to pay the rent someway! At least I know they’re in the hands of people that I know and respect and can appreciate them for what they are.

      • JC

        JeffH – Further to your comment to Karolyn…
        I have a fire extinguisher in my house,
        even though I’m not expecting a fire.
        I have house insurance and no expectation of disaster.
        I have a first aid kit and no plans to hurt myself.
        I have a shovel in the shed and I’m not digging any more holes…unless I “need to”.
        I have a gun in my house…and no “intention” of killing anyone.

        They’re tools, that’s all.

      • JeffH

        AHHHH JC, if one can’t understand your analogy then one can’t understand…period!

    • Claire

      Karolyn–You never lock your doors?? Even when you go to bed at night? You are asking for trouble. In a lot of the counties near me there have been a tremendous amount of rural burglaries, etc. Rural crime is on the “upswing,” at least in this neck of the country it is rampant. In a nearby town, out in the country, a woman was walking and when she got near her house, a white pickup truck was in her driveway. When she got in the house, they shot and killed her. It was a terrible crime. They have not found the person that killed her. One never knows what can happen anytime or anywhere. So watch yourself and keep safe.

  • Mick

    Raggs says:
    December 2, 2010 at 8:51 am
    Europe is like that also… The criminals there do whatever they want and get away with it… The thing is if you have an intruder don’t just wound him… kill him…

    *******************************************************
    Raggs,,,,They have the right to own a shot gun in France and supposedly defend themselves but they better not miss, 2 rounds doesn’t exactly stands against a 9mm or even a six shooter..

    • 45caliber

      They don’t have even that right in England. “Self Defense is not a justified reason for harming someone.”

      • JC

        The English have lost their way in that regard.
        Best we don’t go there…

  • pennsyltuckian

    Anyone actually breathing in PA is a brighter light than Rendell other than Specter, Casey, and Sestak. Thank God for term limits. Just wish I could have voted against him after returning home but at least he is gone.

  • LTCMSCUSAR1

    We in Pennsylvania can expect nothing less from “Fast Eddie, the Ragu Salesman.

    • Angel Wannabe

      LTCMSCUSAR1___Ain’t that the truth!

  • Raggs

    Why is this even a subject?… Damm the liberals if they want an intruder raping their daughter so be it, but I will kill any that pose a threat to my family or myself lives. Plain and simple!

    As a matter of fact, if a criminal knows that a residence is armed locked and loaded he probably will have second thoughts about entering… If he doesn’t have second thoughts than oh well no lose..

    • 45caliber

      I understand in England some years ago, a man broke into the house of one of their liberal politicians.

      The politician did exactly what the liberals tell you to do to prevent harm to you and your family. He simply did everything he was told.

      The man tied him up to a chair and raped his wife and two young daughters.

      About two days later, his wife took the girls and left. She stated that she would never live with a man who refused to even try to protect his family. To my knowledge, he hasn’t seen them since. He was quite bitter about the whole thing.

      • Kate8

        45, Only a liberal would stand by and watch that happen. Sick.

        I’m glad his family left him. But then, what can you expect from an emasculated liberal. These guys really have messed up priorities.

  • Pete0097

    Ironic, as my parents PA home was constructed with places to stand in the chimneys so as to be able to shoot any attackers of the house (there also was a way to climb up the chimney. the shutters are 2 inch thick oak so as to repel attackers.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Pete, Everyone of my windows are punched tin shutters, two are solid wood__ I know, I made them!__attackers would need a can opener to get in, and then theres the dogs.

    • Karolyn

      Sounds like a cool house Pete. How old is it? I’m originall from NJ, and have seen stone homes with slit-type openings to shoot from.

  • charles

    The only death that I’m not prepared to explain is my own.

  • Henry

    Just like wild beasts who you stumble upon in the woods, agressive actions will sometimes make them back down and leave. Turn around and run, they will chase you down and eat you alive. Every time.

  • HFlashman

    Right on ! Canandian law and custom is so relevant to US law and custom ! Wow…. how could any point be made without citing Canadian doctrine (and ‘facts” which can’t be verified at that !)

    • JC

      For comparison purposes it has more bearing than anything you Liberal Communists have to add, that’s for sure.

  • Henry

    Until such time the police can know where and when a creep is gonna commit a crime, and be there to prevent it instead of just showing up to make a report after we are all raped or dead. I’ll take care of any intruders who choose to kill themselves by confronting me.
    Informing my family I suffered a cruel death is not as much fun as telling the creeps family he died quickly.

  • FlaJim

    Here in Florida, like many other states, the state legislature has addopted the Castle Doctrine giving us the right to stand our ground anywhere where our lives, loved ones, or property are threatened. To my knowledge, this right has been exercised only two or three times in the past year and we’re the fourth most populated state.

    The ridiculous extent to which the anti gun crowd will go was illustrated about 30 years ago in Toronto, Canada. Three thugs broke into a man’s home, tied him up and threw him in a closet while they raped his wife and mother in law. The man was able to loosen his bonds, load the shotgun he kept in there, and shot 2 of the thugs as they ran off. The thugs got 5 years in prison. The man got 10.

    • Raggs

      Europe is like that also… The criminals there do whatever they want and get away with it… The thing is if you have an intruder don’t just wound him… kill him…

      • Vicki

        Never shoot to wound. Only shoot to stop. Accepting the fact that he may not survive. That is, of course, between him and his Creator.

        My training is 2 shots to center of mass, if not stopped, 1 shot to cranial ocular cavity.

      • 45caliber

        One case on record in England that doesn’t concern a gun …

        A 275 lb. man broke into a 20 year old woman’s apartment. She weight 110. He attacked and tried to rape her. She sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and called the cops.

        He got 1 year for breaking in, assault, and attempted rape. She got 2 years for “using undo force to subdue an unarmed man.”

        And people wonder why we don’t do the same thing here!

    • 45caliber

      In England, self defense is not a defense in court.

      A farmer of 70 had been robbed by the same two men about two days after he received his retirement check for 7 months in a row. The police refused to do anything – even though he was beaten each time.

      The eighth time they showed up, he used a single barrel shotgun on them. He killed one of them and wounded the other. He was arrested and sentenced for first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison (the worst sentence they can give there). The prosecutor stated that he needed to be locked up because he was a clear threat to the life of any burglar.

    • 45caliber

      Oh, I forgot to add … the burglar got two years for burglary but was out in six months. It was his 34th CONVICTION – and he was only about 35 years old.

      • Dan az

        45
        sounds like calif.laws except they would of let the burglar go and let him sue the guy that shot him and would now own his home.

    • JC

      FlaJim…goes to show governments don’t give a damn about people or justice. The only thing seperating the US from that same kind of garbage are some lines in ink on an old document…and we’d better protect and honor that document.

  • Jan Scallan

    Why does “half-assed man” keep coming to this site dribbling his garbage. Doesn’t Olberman have a site he can visit and be with his own kind? He is pretty tiresome and beyond plain ignorance.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Jan, we found if you take the Liberals food away, such as responses, then like flies they’ll go somewhere else to feed.

      • JeffH

        Yepper!

      • Kate8

        Yeah, but we never do. And they keep coming back with their idiocy, day after day.

        Mostly I don’t read their tripe. One can only have so much patience with stupid.

      • Dan az

        The last couple of days if you noticed there is alot more of them.Same fly’s same crap!

  • Henry

    By federal law I have the right to my gun. I have used it before and I assure you, only a fool would think a law by a liberal coward and his minion of morons would prevent me from placing a well aimed round in the middle of a creeps forehead, should they confront me anywhere. I’ll let a jury judge my decision. Not a liberal coward.

    • 45caliber

      I hope you live in the South or West, at least.

      One man in Arkansas shot his wife because she was both attacking and just plain nasty. He was sentenced by the jury to one day suspended sentence for murder because he confessed and they figured she deserved to be shot. The prosecutor almost messed himself.

      • JimH

        45, “It was a mercy Killin Judge. I put her out of MY misery.

      • JC

        Then there was the woman in Texas who shot a purse snatcher six times.
        When the judge asked her why she shot him six times she said because the seventh time it just went “click”. Case dismissed.
        Source Unverified.

    • Vicki

      Henry says:
      “By federal law I have the right to my gun.”

      By Divine providence you have the right to your gun. Federal law if applicable at all merely recognizes (and hopefully protects) the right granted you by your Creator.

      Also always shoot to stop. Never to kill. Knowing that the perp may well not survive the incident. That is between him and his creator.

      • 45caliber

        Vicki, you are certainly correct. I’ve never tried to kill anyone when I was shooting.

      • JC

        I’ve been in some tight situations but never pulled a gun.
        If I ever get that far though, I’m sure I’ll unload it at the threat.
        If 8 rounds out of a .45 won’t solve your problems…you need another clip! :)

      • JimH

        Vicki, A wounded person can still shoot, so after you stop him, don’t turn your back, keep him covered.

      • Claire

        Aim for the knees/legs and like you said never turn your back on them.

      • Kate8

        Claire – Is everything okay with you? You haven’t been around much lately.

        God bless.

      • Claire

        Kate8–Hi!!! I have commented on a few articles lately and I have taken time to read a lot of the posts. My husband has more health issues, been busy with the dogs, still working and geez time goes by so fast. I am getting some of my Christmas decorations up in the house, now I have to get all my deer out and get them in the front yard. I have the dogs’ rooms decorated. Looks like day care. Thank you for asking, it is very kind of you. I hope all is well with you!!

      • JeffH

        Claire, hope you had a wonderfull T-giving. Agree with ya’!
        I’ll aim for the chest and tap the second shot in the numb skull, that’ll save ya from any later lawsuit from the perp.

      • Claire

        JeffH–I have always heard that it is best if the creep is shot and killed, rather than just maim them. And if the creep is shot and killed inside your home, there has to be evidence of forcible entry.

      • Vicki

        I live in the peoples republic of kalifornia. I am not allowed to shoot the knees. I HAVE to shoot to center of mass. Shooting to wound would be used against me saying that I was not really in fear of my life. If I ever have to shoot it will be to center of mass and if still moving to the cranial ocular cavity.

        Oh and they will be considered a viable threat till I have sufficient backup to not have to worry about them getting up when I am not looking :)

      • Kate8

        Claire – You decorated the dog’s rooms? Rooms? Do they each have their own?

        I love it!! If my house were bigger, my cats would have rooms, too!

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Do that and you’ll probably miss. If you wound him some dirt-bag jury just may find you guilty in a civil suit. then you can support him for the rest of it’s life. after all you took away his criminal profession.

      • Claire

        Kate8–LOL A lot of people tell me that when they die they want to be reincarnated as one of my dogs! I have 8 dogs–several are getting rather elderly, these 4 are in the blue bedroom. The other 4 are in the green bedroom. Bob and I are down to one bedroom. I have another bedroom downstairs but it is full of plants that I bring indoors for the winter-it is crammed along with canned goods, etc. I keep the house clean and their rooms are cute. I hate to say this but I have been to peoples’ homes that have a lot of dogs and geez I was horrified. Talk about a mess. I think this is why I am so paranoid about keeping their rooms clean. I wash their bedding every other day, and it is a lot of work. Nails to grind, teeth to keep clean, baths, ears to keep clean. Every once in awhile I will show one of the old ones in the Veterans class at dog shows. The old ones get the same care as the younger ones. No one is slighted. They are all champions except for Vinnie and Brunnie. I must get Vinnie and Brunnie’s championship within this next year. They are my last hoorah since I have to outlive what I have.
        I have a lot of German Shorthaired Pointer statues, and their pictures are on the walls, especially the “winning” photos, plus ribbons and award plaques. I have always loved dogs, and I take good care of them. They have given me a lot of happiness and I am proud of them. My husband used to hunt with the old ones, and he has had many many happy days with them. Bob loves these dogs as much as I do, thank the good Lord! I suspect people think I am nuts but this is me, this is what I have enjoyed doing for so many years.

      • Claire

        Kate8–I wish to add that the dogs are outside for most of the day providng the weather is decent. Bob has been retired for about ten years so he takes care of them during the day-I come home for lunch. I would not dare let any dog stay out all night and we watch them during the day when they are outside. The perverts around here steal dogs from backyards and use them for bait for their pit bulls. The dog fighting rings are bad in Illinois.

  • HFlashman

    Out of curousity…as the wacked and gun freaks sound off…how would this law benefit you? Under what circumstances do you see that enforcement of ths law infringes upon you ?

    My guess is any scenariom conjured up there is no “safe retreat’ possible…thus this law would not apply. Other circumstances would make you the aggressor…thus, it does since you took the fight to someone.

    But go ahead…try and come up with a possible scenario …

    • Al Sieber

      What problem do you have against a person protecting himself, loved ones, and his property?

      • HFlashman

        Al…none. Fact is, I support the 2nd. My questions is … what circumstances would this law apply? Anything I can think of, the “victim’ is either in immediate danger, and the law would not apply, or the “victim’ becomes the aggressor … and commits an avoidable violent act.

        Seems to me this law which was rightfully veto’d would a0 legitimize criminal acts, and throws the entire mess into a “he said, she said’ argument. The veto does not challenge the right to defend oneself if necessary….it merely affirms that if you have a way to get out of the situation, then listen to the music and get out.

      • Raggs

        No not hardly dude… As a matter of fact we have the right to protect others as well… If you find yourself at Wal-Mart and an armed man is robbing someone else ( at gun point ) and he fires his weapon you then have the right to use lethal force…

        This happened 3 years ago in my state during Christmas… But at the time no other person was armed so the robber shot and killed a man and flead the scene.. he was later captured and charged with murder, but if someone had been there the victim may be alive today…

        I went through a concealed carry class… Car-jacking / intrusions / defending others these are just a few things you learn…
        Most people do not know that we have the same rights as the police…

      • Vicki

        Raggs writes:
        “…and he fires his weapon you then have the right to use lethal force…”

        Generally you do NOT have to wait for him to fire his weapon to use lethal force. He had the ability (gun) and opportunity (present in the store and displaying the gun in a threatening manner). Plus there was jeopardy (the person you were protecting was present).

      • 45caliber

        Raggs:

        Several years ago, in Dallas, a man waited outside one of the bigger malls for his ex-wife to get off work. When she came out, he shot her. After she fell, he stood over her and continued to shoot.

        A man driving up had a gun with him. He jumped out and ordered the shooter to stop. The shooter turned toward him and the man killed him.

        Unfortunately the wife was dead. The man had shot her ten times.

        The DA looked at the case and thanked the man for shooting the criminal. All was forgotten – almost.

        A couple of weeks later, a small group of people from New England flew down and demanded the DA try the man for murder. THeir arguments were:
        the wife was already dead and therefore he couldn’t justify trying to save her life. The man’s gun was empty when he turned to face him so he couldn’t justify saving his own life by shooting him. THerefore he committed murder by shooting the criminal.

        The DA listened in disbelief. Finally he said, “I don’t know what y’all do up there in New England. But down here that man was paid for. I think y’all need to go back home and hunt murderers there.”

      • Vicki

        The living man could not know the woman was dead. He could not know the gun was empty unless it was set open by the last shot. Even then a “reasonable man would be looking at the opening of the barrel and seeing little else of the gun. I think the DA was overly diplomatic.

      • Tony

        Flash-in-the-pan, You miss the whole point. This is the USA and our constitition gives us the right to defend ourselves. Enter my home,uninvited, armed or not and you will either be on your way to the hospital or to the grave.

      • Vicki

        Actually your Creator gave you those rights Tony. They existed before the Constitution and will exist till the end of existence itself. The Constitution merely limits government from infringing on those rights.

        Should the Constitution be the source of your rights I could take your rights away just by getting our fellow citizens to vote to change the Constitution.

        Oh and they would be properly named as PRIVILEGES.

      • HFlashman

        Tony..the law doesn’t apply to invasion of the hme. And the example Crystal used was walking in S Philly at 3:00 a.m. try again, just this time read carefully what is written. And think.

      • James

        Tony, Vicki is right, we have an unalienable right to bear arms, and everyone was exercising that right before they created the federal government. The Second Amendment merely prevents the U.S. Congress from infringing on the right. Forty-four state constitutions have similar restrictions on them, and in the six that don’t, like California, the people still have the right.

      • JC

        Wrong on every level Flash.
        If someone is in my house, they better hopw I’m in a good mood.
        Otherwise there will be no “he said she said” scenario as only one person will be telling the story.
        Don’t like it? Stay out of my house.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Way to tell it, JC!

      • HFlashman

        JC…I never said to walk from one’s castle. I spoke about what the law stated. Sorry, but reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Either that, or you can’t read in the first place.

      • JC

        You missed the point Flask, apparently “comprehension” is not your strong point…
        Point is if I need to defend myself, my family or my property, location is irrelevent, regardless of what the ridiculous
        “Laws of Control” say…get it yet?
        Gun Control is none of the Governments damned business in anyway anywhere at anytime – period.

      • JeffH

        HFlash’s arguements are straight out of Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals”.

        #3. “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

    • Rosco1776

      HFlashman, you can go and retreat but I will stop him dead in his tracks. Retreat so the criminal can go out and do it again and again, I think not. You have obviously never had your house broken into, I wish you no harm but when you do you’ll find out. I will defend myself and my family.

      • HFlashman

        Roscoe….I said nothing against protecting home, family or self.

        To make it clear…outside of home, and when family or self are not in immediate danger of harm….when is it correct to become the aggressor? At what moment does anyone ‘see” when it is right to attack someone?

        Hw does this law if not veto’d change the Right to protect oneself when in immediate danger of harm?

        C’mon hotshots…you’re so incensed this law was veto’d… go ahead and tell everyone how you legitimize violence when not in immediate danger.

      • Teresa

        You legalize violence by this…if someone breaks into your home with any means of intent…by this I mean even if you do have means of escape why should you??? You stand your ground…This is your home, your family, YOU STAND YOUR GROUND and you use force to remove them by any means! And by that I mean I will pull my gun out and I will shoot you where you stand!

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Teresa,

        I agree with you,100 percent.

      • HFlashman

        Teresa…OUTSIDE your home! Why can’t anyone read in this forum???????

      • http://?? Joe H.

        OK Flushed,
        Outside! I come out my door and there is my neighbor on the ground and his wife standing there under the gun of a person I KNOW isn’t a cop. I’m gonna use my perogerative to protect the mans wife and maybe him if he isn’t already dead!!! CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?!?!?!?

      • Angel Wannabe

        Flashman, The real point here, that most bills amendments or what have you are all legal jargon and so broad based, they allow ANYTHING to be changed, dictated or added at any time, why don’t you wake up?___

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        HFlashman… If I come home and find someone in my home, or my front door open, I would immediately believe myself to be in immediate danger. Someone breaking a window in the middle of the night to get in, my first thought is immediate danger. Anyone on my property I don’t know I would consider myself in immediate danger. That doesn’t mean I have to shoot them, but why isn’t it okay to be prepared? I don’t have my carry permit yet, but I will eventually get one. If you think you can fend someone off without losing your own life or theirs, wonderful. I can’t nor would I be expected to. You may have had special ops training, I haven’t. My Chihuahuas won’t be much good in a home invasion either. Protecting my home and family shouldn’t be up for discussion, ever.

      • 45caliber

        It is against the law to carry without a permit. BUT … in Texas no woman has ever been convicted of it. Only men. All a woman has to say was that she was fearful for her life and the jury turns her loose. When we go to some bad area, my wife carries. But she insists she is going to give me the gun if it is necessary.

      • JeffH

        HFlash is using #13.
        Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and ‘frozen.’…”…any target can always say, ‘Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?’ When your ‘freeze the target,’ you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments…. Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the ‘others’ come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target…”One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other.”

      • 45caliber

        flashy:

        Tell me, if you and your wife leave a restaurant late at night and someone attacks you, do you become the aggressor by pulling out a gun? There isn’t a law anywhere as far as I know (certainly not here in Texas) that would call you the aggressor. The man who attacked is.

        If you honestly believe that pulling the gun makes you the agressor instead of the defender, I certainly hope you live in some state like the NE where they might believe that drivel.

      • HFlashman

        45….the veto of the law in question does not change the facts as you present that self defense is legitimate. Try again. Now…if the scenario wer the same…and you ‘thought’ you were about to be robbed/beaten/raped…and you shot the guy(s)…are you justifed?

      • JC

        Don’t bother .45. Anyone who needs to even ask a question
        like that is a moron.

      • Claire

        Hflashman–Anyone with half a brain KNOWS if and when they are being attacked. If I am attacked, I WILL retaliate. It is a matter of self-preservation. It is eithe them or me. I will choose me.

      • Claire

        “either”

      • Vicki

        HFlashman says:
        “To make it clear…outside of home, and when family or self are not in immediate danger of harm….when is it correct to become the aggressor? At what moment does anyone ‘see” when it is right to attack someone?

        This link will get you started on your journey of discovery.

        http://www.useofforce.us/3aojp/

      • 45caliber

        Vicki:

        If you notice, flashy’s argument is that if you do pull a gun – regardless of what the criminal is armed with or what he is doing – YOU become the aggresser and he is the defender, the victim. All false of course.

      • Vicki

        I noticed :) That is why I chose links that specifically deal with deadly force and gun.

      • HFlashman

        “In other words, even when the ability, opportunity, and jeopardy criteria are satisfied, and knowing that you must clearly do something to protect yourself, the use of force, particularly lethal force, may only be that “something” if you have no other safe options.”

        OK..and veto’ing the law changes this how? Follow a more enlightned path on your journey Vicki…you’ll be safer and happier

      • Vicki

        HFlashman writes:
        “Follow a more enlightned path on your journey Vicki…you’ll be safer and happier”

        I do thank you. That is why I am safer (I have guns) and happier (I do not worry about criminals)

        Lo I walk thru the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil for God is my light, Christ is my savior, and Mr Smith and Mr Wesson my constant companions.

      • JimH

        Flash, If you have a chance to run and you take it, you will be saved. You just gave the intruder, who YOU could have stopped the chance to go to another house, where they may not be able to run. By not stopping them, someone else could be killed.

      • Vicki

        And unfortunately the law is very clear on that. I MUST let the perp run away to rape and kill again. Of course if the next victim is also armed and dangerous the perp will be stopped then but I do not have the right of defense of another because the opportunity and jeopardy are not present.

        This is btw an extension of the legal concept of prior restraint which is a power we deny our government and one we deny ourselves.

      • JC

        Actually to hear Flash’s rationalizations he could run away and the intruder could then have his wife.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        what if the assaliant is faster than you at running. Why bother; just give him the old double tap. One in the head and one in the chest.

      • Dan az

        Flash
        said (At what moment does anyone ‘see” when it is right to attack someone? )The word attack is where you get it wrong it should be defend!!!

      • JC

        Firearms are for hunting and self defense…with a little target shooting thrown in for recreation.
        They aren’t weapons until they are used in an act of aggression or war.
        The LibComs will get all hysterical at the distinction I’m sure.

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Rosco1776,

        Here is what a famous liberal said.

        Hubert H. Humphrey (vice president)
        “Certainly, one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms. … [T]he right of the citizen to bear arms is just one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible.”Liberals for gun rights.

    • 45caliber

      flashy:

      You want an example?

      Any time someone attacks you or a family member, you have a right to defend yourself and them. Anytime, anywhere. If they immediately start backing away, you might let them go (I wouldn’t since I’d feel that I would be guilty of the next attack they make on someone else). But you CAN hold them for the police if you don’t want to kill them. If he honestly is a threat … he’s dead. I don’t want him attacking us and I won’t allow him to go to jail so he can be paroled to attack someone else.

      Incidently, you sell your ‘life’ and talents to an employer to acquire the money to buy something. If a burglar or robber tries to take that item they are actually taking part of your life – and if you resist it is self defense.

      If you don’t want to resist, that’s up to you. But I would certainly feel sorry for your family and wonder why your wife would stay with you.

      • HFlashman

        And veto’ing this insane law changes that concept how?

  • Bitter Libertarian

    My Home state. How sad that we have to fight now for our inalienable rights!!!

    • Vicki

      We have been warned many times that freedom is NOT free.

  • castaway

    Have any of you asked a police officer what to do if an armed gunman comes to rob you at home? I have been told by 3 officers call us and we will handle it! I remember telling one of them, ok officer I will call you from the other side. He became angry and said what is that supposed to mean? I told him I would call him from the grave. He reminded me that if I shot an armed robber, I would be the one arrested.

    • Al Sieber

      castaway, I don’t know where you live, but here in Ariz. you have the right to protect yourself with a firearm if you’re in fear for your life, and the right to protect other people, even the police if they’re in danger.

      • Al Sieber

        I forgot to add this was told to me by a Detective after my friend was murdered, he said just don’t shoot them in the back.

      • 45caliber

        I heard that in Chicago, the police offer a class on when to shoot and when not to shoot. Some of the questions come after you watch a video and are then asked, do you shoot or not?

        There is one videa that EVERY man has failed. You open your door and see a stranger trying to rape your wife in the yard. He sees you, jumps up and runs. Do you shoot or not?

        The correct answer is that he is no longer trying to harm anyone so you can’t shoot. But even the police MEN fail that question.

      • Kate8

        45, So you have to let him go so he can try again later. And you know he will be back, to either your house or another.

        People who commit senseless violence should be taken out. We’d have a lot less crime.

      • Dan az

        Kate8
        thats why we have backhoes we bury the garbage here!

      • JC

        I agree. The national crime rate would drop to less than half in about 6 mos. And just about zero after a year.

    • Dr. Mabuse

      Hey Castaway, what did you expect?
      The cops were full of shyt yesterday, today and smart money says they’ll be full of shyt tomorrow

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Dr.Mabuse,

        I agree.Here is what Socialist leader Eugene Victor Debs said,”The Constitution of the United States guarantees to you the right to bear arms…You have the unquestioned right, under the law, to defend your life and protect the sanctity of your fireside. Failing in either, you are a coward and a craven and undeserving of the name of man.” — Eugene V. Debs

        Rendell is full of sh*t.

    • Bill

      Cops hate it when you tell the truth, They baby the criminal, feed him, clean him all up, debug him, let him get further training on how to use the law against those he attacks, and then have Mr Police man there protect his criminal ass, it is a sad time we live in. Best to be in a Area where you can protect yourself, send the criminal to hell and yourself remain free. This needs to be enacted nation wide. Dictators want to be’s such as Obama see guns as a road block to them, We must keep our guns and our Rights, any wanting any different need to be handled now. These police officers need to get there priorities right. We need to be able to defend our loved ones and homes, and criminals killed during home invasions need to be just buried. Criminals have more rights now then honest men, this needs to change! The Police are here to protect the law abiding citizen, not prosecute him for protecting his home before a Officer could get there, now for a cop to get there and then have some one shoot and kill a criminal for no reason my be different, yet if a threat to home or family still remains, he is holding or heading to the kids room on the run and you see him, it should be totally legal to put the criminal down! If you look and read on here we have others who would seam to rather hide under there bed and watch as there family was butchered and raped in front of them, to defend him or her self should be left to the policeman still blocks away from your home as the last loved ones throat was slit seems to be there feelings on this. I for one say if needed reload, the home intruder just moved again, a threat still remains.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Well said Bill!

      • 45caliber

        Oblama doesn’t want to be a dictator! He just knows what is best for you – better than you do yourself – and he wants to take care of you!

        (sarcasm off)

      • Vicki

        Bill writes:
        “Cops hate it when you tell the truth, They baby the criminal, feed him, clean him all up, debug him, let him get further training on how to use the law against those he attacks, and then have Mr Police man there protect his criminal ass, it is a sad time we live in.”

        Ummm…. I don’t really think you should blame the police for the actions of the politician. Cops do NOT hate it when you tell the truth. Any babying they do is because they are REQUIRED to do so by politicians (Police chiefs are most often elected btw)

        Also keep in mind that the police often interact with unknown persons who YOU claim are criminals. Thus they MUST in good moral conscience treat the accused with something approaching dignity for they really are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

        Besides if YOU had to shoot an intruder the police do need to investigate. YOU will be the one they are feeding and cleaning up. In this scenario you did shoot in self defense right?

      • Al Sieber

        Hey Bill, I agree with you on the home invasion, “bury them”. that’s another use for my back hoe.

      • Dan az

        Al we think alike!

      • Al Sieber

        Dan, thats right, I could bury the vehicle and all with my backhoe.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Dan az,
        what do these bleeding hearts not understand about illegal entry??? breaking and entering?? Illegal entry with the intent to do bodily harm??? If the SOB comes into your house uninvited, then he is fair game! Many a good home owner has been killed by the words “get out of my hous………

    • DaveH

      Castaway,
      Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Cops are great at showing up after the incident and drawing the chalk lines. They may even catch you’re killer; now that will make your family feel better.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        gunner 689,
        yeah especially since he will probably bargain down to keep them from having to bring him to trial! wouldn’t want the prosecutors to have to earn their check!! guy here purposly backed his car over his girlfriend and bargained down to manslaughter!! Murder pure and simple!! bet her family were real relieved he got convicted of ANYTHING!!!

  • Al Sieber

    After my dogs get to them, they’ll beg to be shot. Ariz. and Alaska probably have the best gun laws in the U.S..

    • Steve

      I have heard that in the olden days folks were quite a bit more polite and hesitant to provoke violence against others. Most likely this was due to the fact that you never knew if the other person might pull out a gun and blow your head off….

      • Cliffystones

        One of my favorite quotes.

        An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.

        Robert A. Heinlein

      • 45caliber

        Except for the movies, the “Wild” West wasn’t nearly as wild as most people think. In fact, I believe the name came from Cody’s circus.

      • Vicki

        On average the only wild one in the wild west was Mariah.
        Not even an antitank gun could stop her.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Your_Wagon_%28musical%29

      • 45caliber

        lol

      • 45caliber

        I’ve got to admit – that in most towns in the old west, they had just about as many shooting as they did in that movie.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        those cattle/mining towns had nothing on Detroit or Flint, Mich. today

    • 45caliber

      Al:

      Actually Vermont does. It surprised me but it is legal to carry open or concealed there without a license.

      • Al Sieber

        45, you’re right, I knew I missed a state. in Ariz. a law went into effect last July where you don’t need a concealed/ carry permit. it’s probably for the drug cartels and illegals that are pouring over our borders, the sheriff’s here told the citizens to arm themselves, the problem is way out of hand and the president does nothing.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Al S.
        If only Ohio would go the same direction!!! They’d have to burn the state down to get rid of me!!!

  • Richard Barrow

    Isn’t it interesting that all the persons who are against self-protection with firearms, are the ones who have “around the clock” guards,police,etc. and usually paid by the tax payers. They don’t care about the regular folks or their families, or their property.

    They are not the regular,little guys who are the subject of crimes,assaults,robberies,etc. and they don’t have to pay the high insurance bills because of crime. They just add a new tax.

    • Teresa

      AMEN! The government wants control of the American citizens. They want to disarm us, end of story. Guns do not kill, people do. If you are intent on killing you will find a motive and means to do it and the terrorist and gangsters and murders and rapist of the world know this but we as law abiding citizens Have to be able to protect ourself and our loved ones. I do not want to hear this BS about the times were different 100 yr. ago, of course they were there worse now! In times of crisis people loot and riots break out. I often imagine how congress would feel if our armed troops or special forces were not at their side to protect and serve them….would they be so freely to take away our rights then? This is the ONE single battle that Americans can NOT afford to loose, this is our very existence of freedom!

    • 45caliber

      I agree. In fact, ALL of the anti-gun people in Congress that I know about either have guards all the time or they carry. Feinstein carries; when asked whether she was going to give up her gun when she got them banned, she said, “I can’t do that! There are people out there who hate me!”

      So basically what she (and the rest) are saying is: “I need mine but you don’t need yours. And we fear you with one.”

    • Vicki

      The other thing you will notice is that they are the ones who love to use other peoples (your) money for their pet projects. And they are not afraid to take your wealth at gunpoint (Try not paying taxes sometime).

      • DaveH

        With the way these Liberal leaders flaunt their power in our faces, Vicki, imagine how brazen they would be if we were disarmed.

      • Vicki

        We don’t have to imagine or even look at other countries. Look at New York City, Washington DC and any Airport TSA Security line.

  • Angel Wannabe

    We have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms!_ Rendell can veto all he wants, the wuss__Come on my property at 2 in the morning, with the intention to do me or mine harm_ and see what happens?!__Enuff said!!!!

    • HFlashman

      LOL….one really has to laugh at the lame attempts Crystal keeps coming up with time and again to legitimize his rantings of lunacy. Beard v US, 158 U.S. 550 (1895) which Crystal uses as the base of his argument is so off target that using his reading is nearing deliberate misrepresentation. It’s obvious he trolled the ‘net and took the quote out of context and didn’t read the case itself. Bad journalism, and crushes any case which he could present as to being an honest Op Ed writer.

      If I were he, i’d sue the college which gave him his degree as it is obvious with each article he writes he can’t claim a higher education. his Bio which states such is about the only factually true statement he has made. (Mr. Crystal…if you take offemse with this descritpion of your standards..truth speaks for itself)

      But what the heck can one expect from an obvious shill for the powered and wealthy financiers of the GOP (FOREIGN and domestic)?

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        HFlashman… You are so funny! You accuse Ben Crystal of bad journalism???? Sweetie…. I am afraid the liberals have that market cornered! Perhaps you can no longer distinguish between good journalism and bad journalism, heh?

      • HFlashman

        If you think Crystal is anything nearing even medicocre, then you must watch FOX McNews and think it’s good. Like yesterday…every station had Gen. Powell on with his press conference discussing the Start Treaty. Except FOX…they had some wacked out crazed wingnut discussing the Debt Reduction Committee report and he advocated snuffing SSI, unemployment etc…and giving bigger tax breaks to the wealthy.

        Jeesh …

      • DaveH

        Imagine the gall of a person who advocates that the Government not take somebody’s money for ‘their own good’ and then proceed to waste it all. Imagine the gall of a person who advocates that the Government not take somebody’s legally acquired money and then proceed to pass it out to people who did nothing to earn it.
        Only a Liberal could steal your money and then call you selfish for resisting.

      • Tony

        Hey Flash-in-the-pan, Do you have signs up in fronT of your home declaring “NO GUN ZONE”? I have one that says “NO TRESPASSING, VIOLATORS WILL BE SHOT, SURVIVORS WILL BE SHOT AGAIN”.

      • Angel Wannabe

        I love it, Tony!

      • Tony

        Angel, and you can know that I mean it! It’s not that I’m unsociable, I just hate thieves.

      • NoQuarter

        LOL, The one in my yard says “Neighbor to left doesn’t believe in guns”

      • Angel Wannabe

        NoQuarter___Thanks funny!!!! :)

      • http://?? Joe H.

        NoQuarter,
        Where can I get two of those that say right/left??? Or just one that says the neighbor to the left AND right of me doesn’t believe in guns or the right of self defense!!!!

      • Usnret1994

        Here is a link to the No Trespassing sign I have posted. Note the statement “VIOLATORS WILL BE TREATED AS INTRUDERS”
        http://www.narlo.org/sign.html

      • Angel Wannabe

        usrnet1994__Thats great!!!

      • Al Sieber

        Tony, I have one on my front gate, Trespassers Will Be Shot. the sheriff said I can’t tell you that you can or can’t have that sign, he said I would. that was 8 years ago and it’s still there.

      • Bill

        Hay Flash, see your on again, spewing your liberal UnAmerican views as you worship your master and your hopeful dictator in future years Obama! I see you set under the bed while others enter your home steal your positions and rape your wife and children, good for you, the sooner we rid our nation of pusses as you the better off we are, Love your comments Coward. Some one mentioned who paid you to write any way, that too has me curious?? Hope some thieves duct tape you up some night and let you watch!!!! YOU HFlashman in my opinion and these are my opinions only is what is wrong with America today, Taught by socialists who’s agenda is the down fall of America, your a disgrace to our country in my opinion. Now you can go play with your dolls. But please don’t screw with my Rights and I hope soon you are educated as to the need of such rights!

      • HFlashman

        Bill…nice to hear your views. FYI … where did I advocate disarming the home? C’mon big guy…walk the talk. Frippin’ idiot. Can’t even answer the proposition I brought up. Jeesh….are you a founding member of Lunatics United perhaps?

      • independant thinker

        I see HF is flashing in his pants again.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        independent,
        Yeah and that last flash showed he squats to pee!!

      • JeffH

        HFlash has been AWOL for a few days but nothing like a good ole “Alinsky styled attack” at Ben to let us all know… HE’S BACK!

        Personally I like Ben’s style…he adds a little panache to the website.

        Just ignore this hack, he’ll go away again!

      • Vicki

        HFlashman Here is a link to the case for you.
        http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=158&invol=550

        I read the entire case as presented at that link. It discusses the requirements of retreat. Ben Crystal’s article discusses the same thing. The requirements of retreat. The quote from the case that Mr Crystal used is EXACTLY the point that Mr Crystal was making. The Attorneys in the case of Beard vs US wished to make the point that the lower court had erred and misrepresented the legal requirements of retreat further justifying Mr Crystal’s use of the quote and the case. I therefore fail to see any justification in your claim of lunacy on the part of Mr. Crystal.

      • HFlashman

        Vicki…Read the SCOTUS comments…not atty arguments. Also the facts of the case. Did you read anywhere in the opinion wher the SCOTUS said becoming an aggressor was justified? Nope. Did you read anywhere that the folks involved were on anything but one’s private property? Nope. Did you read anywhere that the accused did, in fact, go out and intend to kill the deceased? nope. Did you read anywhere anything that Crystal is advocating? nope.

        Case closed

      • Vicki

        Did YOU read anywhere in Bens article or the comments that followed that we EVER said that being the aggressor was justified?

        Being aggressive in defense of life is no vice.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Flushedman,
        break in to my house and see if I don’t agressivly defend it!!! I’ll even let you attain entry!!!

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Rendell is obviously unfamiliar with the Pa. State Constitution, but then he is a democrat. He was also one of the ones, along with Bob Becker, who went to Fla. during the Bush-Gore election, to nullify the military absentee vote. What a guy.

  • Anthony

    Quote: ” Liberals like Rendell, irrationally terrified of firearms because of what they MIGHT represent, prefer to encourage flight over fight.”

    And, to think, the people of Pennsylvania, especially Philadelphia, have always considered themselves to be the biggest bad-a$$es in practically the entire Country. Liberty Bell and all that rot, ya know…

    Then, they go and elect a coward. I wonder just how many in that City, let alone State, even have a clue as to what this wuss has taken from them(?)

    I’m a cheesehead, and we don’t favor Philly fans very much. They prefer to be somewhat confrontational at the Eagles games. They even went so far as to install a Courthouse, downstairs below the football field , in the basement of their Stadium – so as to convenience themselves while handling barbarian visiting fans – is the excuse. Truth is, the Eagles fans are the ones with barbarian attitudes at football games, going around making false accusations at visiting fans, as a sort of “sport”, like little Junior High kiddies.

    But, I digress.

    IF WE GO BACK – there is further evidence that the People of Philadelphia and Pennsylvania have had their hats handed to them, thru the perversion of freedoms guaranteed to them in the Jeffersonian-intent of the U.S. Constitution – during the Whiskey Rebellion. Alexander Hamilton conned George Washington to send in the troops, when all the locals were doing was standing up for their rights against undue taxation … the troops won, just so ya know.

    Smells almost like the french when you capsulate it like that, don’t it(?)
    Ya see, when you google up Wars won by the French – you get an answer of NONE.
    I think you get my point.

    Philadelphia, the bastion of Freedom in the history books, as it were, doesn’t seem to have the hootspa to put on the tri-pointed hats and actually stand for something (aside from a free handout, from their Masters, I guess).

    Personally, I would take [Beard vs US, 1895] one step further and dictate I have the right to go out after that perpetrator, seek them out and ["do unto them"] to even the score. Anyone wanting to disagree, I assure you, needs their heads examined. Bait Artists may now apply……

    Sad to say, however, the 4th Amendment, these days – Ben, seems to have lost its purpose and power in most States. What with Executive orders, etc., taking the real sterngth of that Amendment away, many Americans are left with “what the heck do we do now” syndromes.

    You can chalk it up to what one can expect in a Police State, where the High School bully’s rule the day, obviously.

    I refer back to a portion of one John Wayne movie (paraphrasing) -
    “Pilgrim, you tested me mighty strongly with that shotgun in my middle. But, we’re gonna calm down now that you no longer have that weapon. I’m gonna watch my temper. Oh, I’m not gonna hit ya … LIKE HELL I’M NOT……

    Good points all around, Ben. Keep it up…

    • d williams

      recently a friend of mine was home invaded in his pa. home while at home sick. the robbers assumed he was at work. he fought off the burglars and by the time he got his gun they had left. the state cops caught them. the cops told him he could have shot them and they would not have arrested him. he asked even if they were fleeing and they winked at him and said they would be cool. at least some pa. people and cops are on our side. the big cities have their problems but the good ole small towns are mostly cool. do not stereotype pa. people

      • Angel Wannabe

        Damn straight_ I’m a Pa-er!__We had a attempted break in 3 years ago__One at the front door, one at the back door, we had just gotten home___We let the pitbull out, my husband had a baseball bat, I got the gun!__They ran off!____the next day we noticed a knitted hat hanging in the pine trees__later that day, 5 kids came running down the bank into the trees to try and find it___my husband and pitbull, snuck out behind the tree and nabbed them___5 kids all under the age of 17__We called the cops___later_That same day__one of the kids father decided to sit, in our driveway, for the day, because he was PO-ed, his son was booked __Just so happens we know ALL THE POLICE force__One of them came back for more questioning___The cop new it was one of the fathers__he ran him off and said if you bother these people again, I’ll arrest ya!___We take care of each other & our own here!

      • TIME

        Angel, Good for you!

      • JeffH

        Angel, I’m standing and clapping for you and your family. Good job.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Thanks JeffH and TIME!__After further investigation, the police later told us, that three out of the five kids, were also involved in other robberies in our area.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        angel,
        Down in georgia I was living with some friends and he and I went fishing. his wife, at home alone, heard a knock at the door and a guy asked to talk to the man of the house. Like a dummy(his words) she said we went fishing. A little later she heard someone at the back door. My Dobie sen-sen was under the back portch asleep. She raised the window and yelled “sen-sen git im’” The guy cleared a 6 foot chain link fence!! she got a piece of his pants on the way over, though! The next day, she saw the guy walking down the street and told me. I went down the alley and walked up to the guy tapping my watch like I needed the time. When I got to him I told him the next time the gate would be opened for the dog and he better not slow down. he ran down the street and we never saw him again!!

      • Angel Wannabe

        JOeH, That story ended well too!__I bet the guy could’ve crapped his pants!!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Angel,
        Well, I had papers saying that sen sen was full blooded but I swear from her size she was mixed with an elkhound!!!

      • 45caliber

        A neighbor of mine in Arkansas was threatened over the telephone. He warned the threatener that he had a gun and the man just laughed. So he called the sheriff. The sheriff heard him out and then said, “If he shows up, shoot him.”

        My friend said, “I thought he had to be in my house before I can do that.”

        The sheriff replied, “No, all he has to be in on your property. Shoot him and we’ll take care of it.”

        The man didn’t show up … to the relief of my neighbor.

      • Angel Wannabe

        45_ Our police here, all have pitbulls as pets as well__They told us, if we have to defend ourselves to let the dogs loose first, if thats not working then do what you have to do!__They said, If would be invaders get attacked, they’d back us up!

      • 45caliber

        I have the perfect guard dog. He barks when anyone comes up. That’s all I want of him. I’ll take it from there!

      • HFlashman

        45…make sure you feed my ex wife nd keep her yearly shots up to date … thanx. I appreciate it…

      • http://?? Joe H.

        45caliber,
        Same here now!! He might drown them in drool but he barks like a banshee! The guy two blocks over says he knows when my dog is out and we get company!!! He wouldn’t hurt a fly, well, maybe a squirril but not a fly!!

    • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

      Anthony,

      Niccolo Machiavelli
      Rome remained free for four hundred years and Sparta eight hundred, although their citizens were armed all that time; but many other states that have been disarmed have lost their liberties in less than forty years.

    • JeffH

      Anthony, thanks the well thought out nd wonderful read. I’ll also say that your John Wayne/George Washington McLintock quote summs it all up very well.

      For eight years, Gov. Rendell has lobbied hard in the halls of the Capitol for what he calls “commonsense” handgun laws. Rendell is just another in the long list of anti-gun nuts that believes in the “commonsense” approach to gun laws. Isn’t that the politically correct method of doublespeak to ban gun ownership all together? You bet it is.

      Rendell is a lame duck governor now Governor-Elect Corbett has signaled that he would sign the bill Rendell had just vetoed.

      This is from The Philadelphia Inquirer:

      “I have full confidence we’ll pass it next year with a bipartisan overwhelming vote, and Gov. Tom Corbett will sign it,” said Rep. Seth Grove (R., York). “You are giving power back to the citizens to defend themselves.”

      Corbett would sign the castle-doctrine bill in its current form, said his spokesman, Kevin Harley – who added that Corbett opposed all the other gun-control measures advocated by Rendell.

      • http://none sean moor

        what sickens me is, everytime one of these souless dirtbags, passes some dumb law.some of the police seem to go along with it.without questioning it.

      • Todd G.

        Most (NOT ALL) cops are idiots who have NO clue about how to enforce the laws that (MEN make) not God!!!! No man can sit in a chair and tell you, you can’t defend yourself in your own home!! There is NO need for this bill to even be reintroduced!! If anyones house gets robbed and you home shoot 1st, they can’t testify when they are dead!!!!!

      • 45caliber

        Cops are different.

        I saw an article in the paper one day some years ago. A man in San Antonio broke in on a woman. She ran to the bedroom, locked the door and got a gun. He broke in and she shot and killed him. The police were upset about it.

        On the same page on the opposite side, another article told of a similar story in Houston. Or at least it started similar. A man broke in on a woman in Houston. She grabbed a gun and went into the living room to check. He saw her and ran. She chased him into the kitchen and shot him. She tried to shoot again but her gun jammed. So she ran back to her bedroom, got another gun, and charged back. She held the gun on him until the police arrived. He was dead. The police told her she had done a good job.

      • 45caliber

        The police can and do question it – but they still have to arrest people for breaking that law whether they like it or not. They cannot pick and choose which laws they will enforce.

        However … any JURY can make the difference. They try to not let you know about that but a jury can refuse to honor ANY law made by any group.

        All they have to do is decide that the law is wrong and therefore find the prisoner innocent.

        Now that the feds have passed several laws, they can now try you again for the same crime with a different jury, but at least you still have a chance of getting off when a law is wrong.

      • Rick Quill

        45 – Correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t that kind of action be considered “Double-Jeopardy”?

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        It is double jepordy but the Feds, especially do it until they get the verdict they want. They just change the name of the charge. Remember Bernie Getz, the NY. guy who shot some thugs on a subway? They tried him over and over again until they got a guilty verdict. If they want you bad enough they’ll get you but better tried by 12 than carried by six.

      • Angel Wannabe

        JeffH, A few months ago Rendell must have been getting massive amounts negative responses,including from us__In a speech he referred to us all that don’t agree with his crap_ LOONS!__I lol on that one!

      • JeffH

        Angel, guess what? That other “loon” will not be governor of Pennsylvania in 2011.

      • Kate8

        I don’t think self-defense is even an issue with liberal loons like Rendell. They couldn’t care less about anyone’s safety.

        It’s like everything else Progressives do. They try to use emotion and their distaste for ‘killing’ poor misguided souls as just another ruse to eventually confiscate guns for their bigger agenda.

        Don’t you just love how they have so much compassion for criminals, and so little regard for the innocent? Just more of their twisting of logic for mind-boggling.

        If we keep in mind that these people never stop when they gain ground, that they do everything in small increments with the intent to continue pushing when the dust settles, we get a look at the bigger picture. We all know they are pushing for gun confiscation.

        It seems these days that all bets are off with the Progressive agenda. They aren’t even waiting for the dust to settle anymore. It’s now rapid-fire acts of treason against the people.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Thank Christ.

      • Angel Wannabe

        I’m Hearin’ all of that kate!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Kate8,
        here’s hopin his house gets broken into while he is home!!! Let him get a taste of what he is trying to foist on others!!

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