Correct.

The people of Cal. did vote to change THEIR state constitution (gay marriage). But the judges are trying to rule that the amendment isn’t constitutional. So how can we expect the judges to rule that the US Constitution means what it says when the judges don’t believe in it in the first place. And certainly Congress and the President don’t.

You’re right. Judges take a solemn oath and immediately flush it. Look at Sotomayor and Kegan.

When “social justice” takes priority over Constitutional law, we are in BIG trouble. These judges should be impeached and speedily removed from office for breach of oath.

My sincere apologies to the Monkeys, I meant them no disrespect.

They were bailed out once about 1970. So their politicians assume they will be bailed out again regardless of how much they over-spend or what they spend it on. I think it is time that they accept the problem and start cutting to pay off their debt. One of the first things they can cut is the funds they are giving the illegals.

Do you remember the NY Daily News headline when President Ford refused to bail out NYC? I think it said, “Ford to New York: DROP DEAD!”

Ah, the good old days.

Wayne,

“Decent people” have been relegated to irrelevance. We still outnumber the indecent, it’s just that our politics have been taken over by a machine that we no longer own.

Many of the decent people are out hunting jobs since they aren’t of the race/class to be given welfare. They don’t have time to get involved in politics.

45, Brought to you personally by none other than Obama. Really makes you wonder dosent it? Mike L.

When I was in high school, college was accepted as a place for the rich or the really talented. Now it is considered a must for all high school students. As a result, colleges are far too big and they care more for enrolling students than they do having jobs for those students when they graduate. High school education has no real meaning any more when a good percentage of those graduating can’t read, write, or do simple math. The main reasons are the “12 and out” mentality and the PC feeling that it might harm some poor student to have to repeat a year for failing to learn anything. Even college is beginning to get that way, particularly when they spend more time trying to teach the students the liberal socialist way rather than the studies he/she needs to be able to support themselves upon graduation.

As someone said, a BA degree means they can better say, “You want fries with that?”

45
I always felt that if you had to take a test to get in it would be one of common sense and if you had it you failed.

I graduated in 1964 from high school, and I maintain that we graduating students were (and still are) more truly educated than the leftist automatons with bachelor’s degrees.

Written in LA Times:

Where some tax money goes
As anyone who has looked at the University of California (UC) system of the California State University (CSU) system knows, in-state tuition is granted based on whether or not you attended three years of high school and graduated from high school in California.

There is no requirement to prove that you are a legal resident.

This means that illegal immigrants can obtain in-state tuition for the UC and CSU campuses, provided they meet the high school graduation requirement.

UC and CSU systems are subsidized by the State. Your tax money goes to pay for the subsidies, and some of the money subsidizes tuition for illegal immigrants.

Now, I tend to believe that if you are illegal you shouldn’t have access to ANY benefits. This includes education. I believe that by allowing access to education, health care, and welfare programs, California is actually creating a situation that is attractive to illegal immigrants.

I definitely don’t like the idea that illegals are attending college at in-state prices.

The argument is that illegals, who are brought here as children, have no choice in the matter. They should be given the same opportunities as other children. However, if this is true, then there are no consequences to bringing your children here, rather, there are incentives to bring your children to the US with you – illegally. There should always be consequences for illegal action. There is an old quote, “Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.” That applies here.

However, California is offering incentives. These are people who go to college – and take spots at college that should go to legal residents – and pay less for the privilege. These are people who lament, at graduation time, that they cannot get a job that puts their degree to good use because they are illegal. Then what are they doing getting that degree here?

At the same time, California makes out-of-state, legal residents pay more. Sometimes it is almost double the cost of in-state tuition.

Some out-of-state students have challenged that California is breaking federal law by granting in-state tuition to illegal immigrants. This is because illegals in California cannot be legal residents, and cannot gain access to perks for legal residents. Illegal immigrants are already barred from accessing federal and state grant and loan programs for tuition assistance.

Many illegal immigrants say that they will not be able to attend college if forced to pay the higher prices. They say that their illegal status makes it close to impossible to afford higher tuition prices. The solution to this is to enter the country legally, not illegally.

Teresa well said sounds like you have been doing your homework . a skeptic seems to just want to give the law breakers a free ride from everyone elese’s pocket’s .That should not be allowed not any more . Not in Ca. or in any other state . Illegal means against the law and should not be that hard to understand nor should it be rewarded . But for some it sure seems to be .

Teresa and Mike M.

So, what do you consider to be a reasonable solution to the situation?

As I stated earlier, “All arguments of legality and fairness aside, it’s just unrealistic to insist that immigrant families:
a) cover the costs and dislocation of returning to their countries of origin;
b) go through the uncertain, lengthy and costly process of applying for legal status;
and then, having exhausted all their savings,
c) come back, re-establish themselves, and finally send their sons or daughters off to college when these young people are no longer young.

…Something to think about when we shut the door to these positive, dedicated youth striving for a more useful role in our communities than hanging around on street corners.”

P.S. BTW, thank you for arguing respectfully. In many other conservative forums, people get so all wrought up they can’t even see clearly… something that only denigrates the true conservative perspective.

A lawsuit was filed in 2005 by a group of out-of-state U.S.-born students (42 students and their parents from 19 states) argued that a 2001 California law extending “undocumented illegals” the right to pay the same in-state tuition in California’s public colleges and universities is unfair to both in-state and out-of-state college students.

California is one of nine states that allow illegal aliens to pay in-state tuition rates. The class action suit argued that 60,000 out-of-state college and university students who are U.S. citizens, have illegally been forced to pay higher costs to attend California’s public institutions of higher learning. The in-state cost to attend the University of California is $6,769. The out-of-state cost to attend the same classes is $24,589. Why the extreme difference? Because California taxpayers subsidize the education of their own children. Out-of-state students, not being legal California residents, are not entitled to that taxpayer-funded subsidy. NOR SHOULD ILLEGAL ALIENS who are not legal in any sense.

If that isn’t bad enough, here’s the rest of it. When the plaintiffs in the original lawsuit asked the University of California, California State University and several community colleges in the State how many illegal aliens were enrolled as full time students, most said they did not keep records on that information. The University of California said they only had 407 “undocumented students” enrolled. In point of fact, California colleges and universities average 15,000 illegal alien students. Translated into real dollars, California taxpayers are digging a little deeper into their pockets than they realize. To educate illegal aliens each year, California taxpayers are coughing up $267,300,000.00 so that illegal aliens can pay in-state tuition rates.

Think that’s bad? Now, multiple this by the nine states which now offer illegal aliens in-state college tuition rates and you discover that taxpayers in nine States are digging into their pockets for 2 billion, three hundred ninty-five million, seven hundred thousand dollars so illegals can go to the colleges they wish their children could attend. (Sounds like a lot more money when you spell it out, doesn’t it?) And, it makes you mad, doesn’t it? If it doesn’t, it should. Talk about taxation without representation. This is covert taxation that most citizen taxpayers in those States don’t even realize they’re paying. Most of them think the $6,769 each illegal pays in tuition costs covers the cost of their education. Most don’t like the system, but since they think it isn’t costing them anything, they shrug and go about their business. That’s how social progressiveness works. Make the little lie work, and then expand it. But, before that lie gets so big it destroys all of us…

Catch your breath and wait for the next shoe to drop. Get your adding machine back out. New York and Texas are also offering reduced tuition for illegals. It’s almost like they’re advertising for undocumented college grads to come there. Add to that, Massachusetts is pushing for the same thing. Trust me, this is only the beginning. It’s just like dominos. Once they start to fall, you can’t stop them.

Here’s the real reality we are facing. This stealth education program for illegals will not only grow into other States it will multiply once it does. Here’s how. It’s likely that the parent-student group that filed the original 2001 lawsuit in Yolo County Circuit Court in California will likely appeal the California Supreme Court decision to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. If the verdict is upheld, California’s education giveaway spreads to Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington State.

Let’s imagine someone challenges the Texas giveway and it ends up in the 10th Circuit, and the State prevails. That decision impacts not only Texas but Louisiana and Mississippi. Are you starting to get the picture? And, as the practice spreads like a cancer, the taxpayers of the United States will be footing the bill..

California went “rogue” a long time, ago-and copycat states will follow-some willingly and others because they are affected by US Circuit Court of Appeals decisions. We need to stop the Pancho Villa raid on the American education system because if it continues, every State in the country will be affected. It may take assisting the current litigants to make sure they win at the appellate or Supreme Court level, or it may entail initiating our own action. Clearly the United States is not enforcing the rule of law. If they did, President Harry S. Truman’s Federal Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, which makes it a felony for any person, groups of people, businesses, corporations, advocacy groups or elected officials to assist illegal aliens..

If the United States refuses to enforce the rule of law, the taxpayers of America should not be forced to foot the bill. AmeriPAC feels obligated to step into fray and help those fighting this abuse of the taxpayers by offering the legal expertise to win this case on appeal and stop the nonsense that forces American families to foot the bill to educate those who steal into this country in the dead of night while the educations of their own children are compromised. Entering the United States illegally is a crime, and we shouldn’t reward it. Nor should our children be penalized because they are natural born or naturalized citizens.

California has been a joke for some time now. The CA Supreme Court, like the 9th Circuit, is filled with leftist activists who couldn’t give a fig about Constitutional law. They use their positions to traitorously circumvent, side step or outright violate their own oath of office and the Constitution they are sworn to preserve, protect and defend.

And good old George Soros has been very active in pushing for appointment of judges (rather than voting for them) in many states. I wonder why he wants to do that?

Paul, I feel the way you do. I am sure that a lot of people feel the same way as we do, but they are oblivious to what is actually going on in this country. It would take a bomb to drop on their heads for them to wake up and actually see what the hell is happening.

Amen to this, Patrick.

yes it is illegal to ask people for identification of citizenship….first of all who would the police ask?? all those who look illegal? brown people, people who dont speak english well?….it all goes back to racial profiling, That is exactly what Arizona’s SB1070 was doing. Racial profiling is illegal which makes it illegal for police to ask for ID

DREAMER,

If your looking for a blonde cocker that ran away you sure don’t check out the Delmation on the corner ! If you are looking for Mexican illegals you don’t check out white english speaking people ! Get a grip ! It isn’t wrong it is logical !

Granny Mae – as always a nice logical comment – well said. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Why is it nobody notice’s this. It’s illegal to ask for proof of your statues when I’m asked daily “Can I See Some ID Please.But it’s illegal to ask a mexican or any other. Their “ALL” Dem. who want a free ride from the American citizen who works for a living and abides by the laws of this country and Fights for this country. Want to see how fast the illegal would go home. Tell them they will be put on the front line’s and if they make it back they will become a citizen try that and see what happens.

Please read the fifth paragraph of the article.

You got me however that says HOPE lets hope not

Ok, you’re right and you’re wrong. What you say is true: education is a state and not a national matter. Clearly, then, the California Supreme Court has jurisdiction and the U.S. Supreme Court doesn’t.

It’s not at all clear why the writer accepts DeYoung’s idea that an appeal to the national court is possible. Of course, DeYoung also qualifies the affordable rate as “a [$23,000] gift that is not available to U.S. citizens in other states”, which is obviously a gross misrepresentation.

The $35,000 foreign student fee is aimed at rich Asian or European students, and in this the universities are simply charging what the market will bear. They understand that families who work, pay taxes, and live – legally or illegally – in the U.S. simply wouldn’t have the resources to see their sons and daughters get a better education. They lose customers and a whole segment of the population gets shut out from improving themselves and being more productive in the economy. Twelve thousand bucks a year is tough enough for any family; for most Latino or other relatively recent immigrant families it requires real personal sacrifice.

Now, people will howl about “How can we give this benefit to illegals?” but the fact of the matter is that the community has accepted to include these immigrant young people in its public education system and the students, in turn, have distinguished themselves through several years of dedicated study in middle and high school to the extent of their being accepted into college. This is not a “cross the U.S.-Mexican border and head for the enrollment line” situation.

Seems to me if there ever was a immigration reform that deserved implementation it was the DREAMS Act just this fall. The Republicans – who had a chance to extend a peace offering to the Latino community, while still insisting on tighter borders – defeated this in the federal legislature, under pressure from the xenophobic, anti-immigrant backlash.

All arguments of legality and fairness aside, it’s just unrealistic to insist that immigrant families:
a) cover the costs and dislocation of returning to their countries of origin;
b) go through the uncertain, lengthy and costly process of applying for legal status;
and then, having exhausted all their savings,
c) come back, re-establish themselves, and finally send their sons or daughters off to college when these young people are no longer young.

…Something to think about when we shut the door to these positive, dedicated youth striving for a more useful role in our communities than hanging around on street corners.

All well and good, BUT ONLY IF…
the federal government did NOT ever again give so much as a dime of my tax money, for ANY reason, to the the state of California. jms

Wayne,

you said “I am dumb founded how the folks could have elected Nancy Pelosi again. This tell you the mind set of the people in Nancy Pelosi’s district.”

I used to believe that you really could tell the mind set of Americans in different areas of the country by who got elected and re-elected. How did Ted Kennedy get a 40 year career in the Senate after Chappaquiddick?

How does Barney Frank continue to get re-elected? Harry Reid? Maxine Waters? John Kerry? I have concluded, in my own mind, that elections in so-called “strong democrat” areas of the country are pre-determined. Witness the selling of Barack Obamas senate seat in Illinois.

We like to think our elections are free and honest, I would like to think that, but I am frankly convinced the the will of the American people is rarely seen in modern times on elections days. Frankly, I find it impossible to believe that even Obama was honestly elected by the majority of Americans. To believe that, I would have to believe that the whiners, the criers, the complainers, the wannabe communistic socialist and the generally stupid outnumber intelligent Americans.

For my money, Pelosi did not get re-elected. Her senate seat has been bought and paid for, just like Obamas presidency.

One thing I find interesting is that Pelousy had only 45% or so of the vote prior to the election – but got 80%. Boxer was in even more trouble. So was Reid. In fact, I saw one poll for him that showed him at 26% of the vote but he won. And he won in the last hour of the voting. It was as if all his supporters waited until the last moment to run in and vote.

Rather than that, I believe the voting machines were programed as some were shown to be in the early voting: four out of five votes for his opponent were changed to his votes. Further, I believe that most of these districts that vote by such overwhelming numbers are the same. Take Houston for instance. Shiela Jackson Lee filed charges because a group of poll watchers, following all the rules, were watching in her district for illegal acts. She wanted them out – and then started campaigning for votes at the machines – which was very illegal!

It’s a little known fact that there is a river known as the Dumbo which has it’s source in Red China and surfaces in California, then goes back underground and reapears in Mass. It has branches that flow to Atlanta, Chicago, and some other major cities. These cities derive their drinking water from the Dumbo and it destroys common sense and reality, turning the drinkers into liberal zombies. “Yes we Can”, “Yes we Can”, “Yes we Can”, “Give Dope, I mean Hope, a Chance.”

Gunny
I think you may have something there!

Joe, you are most likely correct on this. It seems that most of the political system is controlled by money, not by integrity. Being an honest man myself, which is the way my parents raised me, I know I am naive to think that all people are honest. They are not. In my opinion, the public has to take part of the blame for this as we have allowed it to happen. We should screen the background of all those who run for office and all the folks running the political parties. I think that corruption starts with these two parties. We know that neither party vets their candidate. All people running for any political party should be vetted. Folks with felonies on their record should never be cnsidered for any office, period. Example, like Marion Barry, Mayor of DC, being sent to prison for selling drugs and then running for office again and getting elected by his constitutents. What a castastrophe. We need to demand that both parties (Democrats & Republicans) need to have the people running for office fill out an application just like you and I would have to fill out. They should be required to show their original birth certificate, have a police check filled out on them showing no felonies, they should be of good moral character and etc. You see my point. Until this happens, there will never be an changes, and the crooks will be running our public offices. I, for one, am very disturbed the way the political system is being run.

I’m Glade you said about time someone did.I agree 100% . We the People do not exist anymore. It’s We The Party” nuff said.

pennsyltuckian,
The ruling doesn’t say that illegals get a better rate than what you would get; they still have to ante up $12,000 per year. Nor can you argue that your tax dollars are more precious than the tax dollars of hard-working parents, albeit illegals and under falsified identities, who want a better life for their children.

The tax man takes his due and cares little if the activity or person is legal or illegal.

What makes you believe the illegals are paying taxes? Many work for cash only. (This saves the employers money since they don’t have to pay taxes on them.) Many other illegals have two sets of ID papers and draw welfare for 6 months on both sets while working on the other. Then they file two income tax forms and get all their income taxes back. The only tax they may pay is sales tax.

Further, if the parents are here illegally, then I don’t really care if they pay $20,000 a semester for their kids to go to our schools. They shouldn’t be here in the first place. I believe that the college should check the immigration status of all students and any found to be illegal should not only be turned over to the INS but the INS should see if they can’t find the rest of hte family too.

45, A skeptic there = a liberal. He touted how the illeagles should get a break. If they were here to better themselves through education, What he fails to see just like any other good democrate liberal is the fact that they are here illeaglely. I guess you could find that same reasoning in his/hers support for them reciveing medical benifits,health care benifits and social security. For me all that ends at the illeagle part. Sam withe their supposed innocent anchor babies. Kinda heartless I know but this has got to stop just because you darted across the border and had a baby for free in one of our hospitals does not give it automatic citizenship rights. Mike L.

45…as you stated, some work for cash and employers use that to evade the ta man. As I have stated many times…most TPers ignore the true criminls in the undocumented worker issue…the employer. Instead they are admament we punish the guy whose only ‘crime’ is looking for and getting a job.

“45…as you stated, some work for cash and employers use that to evade the ta man. As I have stated many times…most TPers ignore the true criminls in the undocumented worker issue…the employer. Instead they are admament we punish the guy whose only ‘crime’ is looking for and getting a job.”

Flush, cut the sh*t. I’m tired of hearing this non-argument. “TPers” ignore no one in the issue. Show me ONE, just ONE posting from a conservative who advocates allowing the employers off scot free.

Speak now or forever hold your peace!

45caliper

I’m just suggesting that in principle the DREAM Act, if limited to direct family members, is not necessarily a bad thing. Right now it wouldn’t hurt to make a small gesture of goodwill to Latinos in general, and to these young immigrants who you yourself have admitted have met other in-state requirements and who are trying to improve themselves and make positive contributions to the community and economy.

Call it expedient if you wish, but realistically, what are the options that would lead to a more positive result? If we go the present course based on the hate and prejudice that I read here everyday, we’re shutting down the hopes of these positive and studious young people, and leaving them in menial jobs, or worse, on the street. Let’s, for once, be fair about it: it’s BULL that they’re getting a break that their fellow classmates don’t.

Like I say, here is a chance to offer a simple gesture of respect to those young people and to the Latino and recent immigrant community in general.

But people prefer to hate and go along with the wolfpack instead of reason: in the present political mood, it’ll be difficult for Republican representatives to educate their electorate on the fairness of this. This is especially so if every time someone brings up some reasonable accomodation, the issue gets muddied with other emotional and not-directly-related issues such as you have done here, with accusations of welfare abuse.

Yes, by all means, clean up the welfare abuse and sanction the abusers… but at the very least, be fair about it and recognize that people from ALL races are guilty of this; as we all know, so too are the major corporations and banks, but at an infinitesimaly grander scale.

45caliper, why did you think it fair to bring this up?

In reality, Latinos are among our hardest workers, often doing jobs that others won’t. ‘Course, that’s not anything that you’d ever admit to agreeing with.

Illegal aliens don’t pay taxes, don’t contribute to society, don’t care about our laws, don’t carry insurance etc.
Illegal aliens must be either fully integrated and participate in our society or they must be deported.
As illegals they are just enjoying a free ride at the expense of everyone else. Rewarding them for not participating and not paying taxes isn’t the solution.

Skeptic, Illegals should not be in this country period. It is liken to some one invading your home, and you don’t have enough sense to remove them.

WIA Repeat after me: READ PARAGRAPH 5 OF THE ARTICLE, get it? It’s DOES have the potential to involve the SCOTUS.

“Vigilant….you do shame to your name. You should be asking why is this Conservative group ready to appeal to the SCOTUS when in probability there is lack of jurisdictional standing? Seems they don’t like the 10th…”

Flush, you do shame to your brain. If you had any reading ability, you would have seen the following: “Californians for Population Stabilization (CAPS), a nonpartisan organization, has condemned the court’s decision and hopes that the U.S. Supreme Court will overturn the ruling.”

What part of “nonpartisan” don’t you understand?

“lack of jurisdictional standing?” You’re dumber than I thought.

One of the jobs of SCOTUS is to do precisely that: determine the jurisdictional standing of an issue before the court. You don’t even understand how your own government works, do you?

And, Flush, resign yourself to the realization that you will NEVER win an argument with me on the basis of facts, logic, civics and historical accuracy.

If you think I’m worried about bruising your self esteem, you obviously have me confused with someone who gives a damn.

Why should they get anything at all?
At my expense?

They’re ILLEGAL – Period!

Didn’t you know it is only illegal for the folks that are citizens to show their displeasure, you have to be a politician to corrupt the world, as long as we continue to take it they will continue to do it. HOw long are we going to put up with it?? NOw if you complain you are considered anti American, and are put on a list, just like they did with HITLER, are we going to continue and just get on the bus and go to the gasings???????? but consider most of these illegals are not American, so they do not give a damn!! STOP THE INSANITY GET RID OF THE NAZIS, OR SOCIALISTS OR WHATEVER THEY WANT TO BE CALLED, it is time to take care of AMERICANN NOT MEXICANS