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Golden Words: "The Democrats Must Go!"

October 20, 2010 by  

Golden Words: "The Democrats Must Go!"

Heading towards next month’s election, gold has given the Democrats a clear vote of no confidence. Despite the excitement and even euphoria that Obamamania created two years ago; the Midas metal — which abides no politics and holds no favorite — is showing two thumbs down on re-electing a Democrat majority.

The day before President Barack Obama won the election — on Nov. 3, 2008 — gold was trading at $729 per ounce. Today gold is trading around $1,350 per ounce. That is a whopping 85 percent gain in less than 24 months.

Only one other President has done so much to help gold and to hurt the nation. Jimmy Carter was elected on Nov. 2, 1976. On that day gold traded at $122.50 per ounce. Twenty-three months later bullion was at $215 per ounce. That was a 75 percent increase in the Midas metal; less than what Obama has accomplished. Who says President Obama isn’t good at anything?

The Dems Have Sent Gold Soaring

History Says Bullion Will Continue To Boil
If you think that the Obama Gold Bull is becoming a bubble consider this: The Carter Great Gold Bull just kept on going. By the time it hit its all-time high in 1980, bullion was trading for $850 per ounce. That was four times higher than what gold was after Carter’s first two years in office. Even if Obama holds on for just one term and gold follows a path similar to the Carter Presidency, bullion could top $5,000 per ounce.

But Obama’s influence can be felt well beyond the gold market. The Christmas before Obama was sworn in crude oil was selling for less than $38 per barrel. Since then oil prices have more than doubled to $82 per barrel.

While commodity prices keep rising the dollar keeps on falling. Since summer the U.S. dollar index (a measurement of the strength of the dollar against a basket of other key currencies) has fallen off a cliff — dropping from an index reading of 89 to just 77.

Regardless of what economic propaganda Washington spews, we all know that the basic cost of living is higher now than it was two years ago. Gasoline costs more, bread costs more; even a cup of coffee costs more. And oh yes, there are fewer jobs.

There are 14 million unemployed and underemployed workers, or 17.7 percent of America’s total population. Each month millions of middle class Americans see their dollars buying them less while millions more keep searching for work. It is a building catastrophe and is leading towards economic stagflation.

Stagflation is the worst of both worlds. It is a stagnant economy and currency inflation at the same time. It is going to only get worse. Consider that the economy only grew 1.7 percent in the second quarter of this year, not enough growth to improve the economy.

Economists argue that we need 2.5 percent annual growth in the gross domestic product to prevent our already high unemployment rate from rising. That means we need to add more than 100,000 jobs per month to keep our unemployment rate from rising. Yet we created only 64,000 private sector jobs in September.

Meanwhile, unemployment has been at 9.5 percent or higher for the past 14 months. That is already a month longer than our last severe recession in 1982-1983, and no turnaround is in sight.

Last week Chicago Now said that President Obama’s stimulus package is deeply flawed: “It continues to increase our government debt at record levels. The bailout of our financial institutions has helped the banks, yet they are hesitant to loan money to consumers and businesses, which has compounded the chance of a smooth economic recovery. The banks are using our tax money while hoarding cash and our federal government has not instructed them to make loans.”

Hurricane Barack
If the election doesn’t change business as usual by the President and Congress, the result will be even greater deficit spending; something that will trigger a dollar catastrophe.

According to a story in Benzinga.com last week, 2010 bank reserves are incredibly high — above $1 trillion. That is more than 23 times the $44.6 billion in bank reserves that were held at the end of August, 2008.

All this money could turn into an inflationary tsunami in quick order because the Federal Reserve could use these bank reserves to buy more Treasury securities which will allow the Obama administration to continue to create debts that are beyond the nation’s capacity to repay.

The price of gold is already flashing this sign but there hasn’t been wholesale liquidation of greenbacks… at least not yet.

What you need to know is that it could happen even if the Republican Party pries away seats from the Democrats next month. After all, the instrument of all this destruction will still be sitting in the White House for at least another two more years.

According to Benzinga.com, “With the Federal Reserve and Treasury/President/Congress doing these things, historic monetary instability is the prompt, unsurprising result. The dollar’s value is dropping to all-time lows as proved by the gold price rocketing past $1,350/oz, up 386 percent since achieving equilibrium value of $350/oz in 2003. This means the Fed has devalued the dollar about 75 percent in the past seven years, an average annual monetary inflation rate of 10.7 percent.”

The Rule of 72 tells us that if this inflation rate stays true, that dollar in your pocket will be worth 50 cents in just over six years (hopefully not, but possibly when Obama exits the White House for good).

Even if Obama is defeated in two years he has plenty of time to wreak havoc on the economy and the dollar. Again, let’s consider Carter.

After the Democrats lost seats in the 1978 midterms Carter stuck to his liberal guns. The nation was just falling into the grips of sky-high inflation, rising interest rates and surging unemployment. But over the next two years the economic crisis got much worse. It was very bad for the nation but high times for gold.

I see the same situation today. Whether or not gold will reach $5,000 per ounce I don’t know. I tend to think not because there is also a chance for a stunning deflation if America’s creditors like China get tired of the Federal government’s runaway spending. Still, gold is very strong and it has legs to move much higher in short order.

Action To Take
We only have one vote. But we can protect ourselves and our families from the stupidity that is rampant in Washington. I urge you to sell all bond instruments and use the funds to buy bullion, either in physical form or blue-chip gold mining stocks.

Yours for real wealth and good health,

John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Stephen

    Unfortunately, the article only blames the Dems. The Republicans have done their fair share of ruining this country as did the previous administration did for 8 years. To go back as far as the Carter reign, is not justified. I’m not defending what happened, but, we must move forward. I am deeply disturbed by both mainstream parties as their political BS does not serve us well. We need to and have to take care of ourselves and family and not depend upon any governmet to help us. Too many people are complacent. They would rather not do anything and have others who are more assertive take a stand. When the economy crumbles those complacent individuals will scream the loudest. They will expect from those of us who have taken measures to ‘survive’ the crisis take care of their needs. Wake people, when a crisis situation happens, people act much differently and usually it’s not in a positive way. We are seeing a severe decline in governmet. The banks will never help the people and wall street is far too greedy to help us.

  • chuck b

    kilrntex

    you may be right, however, i think you will have to go back further than 1947. i think they were spawned by the depression in the thirties.
    roosevelt may have been slipping around on eleanor. the government handouts during the depression started us on the socialism road, even tho it helped many families at the time, it planted the seed and we were well on our way to what you are seeing today.

    • Bob Wire

      Maybe so, but have you ever taken a good look at Eleanor.

      Noble lady in every sense of the word.

  • kilrntex

    I have a sign in my yard that says:”Democrats are destroying this Christian nation, VOTE THEM OUT!”. Have you seen the Andy Griffith commercial praising ObamaCare? I have a sign for that too. It says: “SPECIAL ELECTION, BARNEY FIFE FOR SHERIFF OF MAYBERRY, (ANDY LOST HIS MIND!) I’m trying to keep sanity in an insane world. I’ve finally figured out what liberals are. I believe that in 1947 the Roswell incident brought aliens here and a military experiment went wrong when they crossbreeded the little bastards with crash dummies! They must have escaped and started breeding in government housing projects. The democrats saw this as a way to get votes, so they got them food stamps, housing allotments and brainwashed them into thinking that they lived in an Eutopian world. These idiots are zombie robots which you talk yourself blue in the face and still not get through to them. Hitler must have had some too, that’s where he got his rocket technology. He must have used muslims, because they hated Jews worse than liberals we have today. Now the UN is reaching out to the aliens whether it be ET or illegals from the south. Afterall, they breed about as fast and can be programed quite easily. Now you know what you are up against when you have to deal with liberals. They will stop at nothing! Watch “Terminator” and it will give you an idea on how to stop them! They aren’t as tough as Arnold, but every bit as stupid. God save the planet!!

    • Denniso

      You’re ‘trying to keep sanity in an insane world’??? Doesn’t sound like you’ve been successful,does it?

  • http://Google Yeshi Gemaneh

    There is time for everything. Things cannot remain static that is the fact of everything. The inflation of America cannot be a reason of Democrats or Republicans. It is probably world wide issue. From my observation in a distance President Obama is working very hard to make things work and go well. To be honest he is only one person; if anyone individually or collectively have a better offer why not come forward to boost the Economy.

    The weakness of the economy at this stage is all over the world. In my opinion,instead purchasing from other parts of the world should increase the items “Made in America.” Other parts of the world also have high respect and believes in America goods; if items increased “Made in America” that would elevate the economy. The other point, until the economy is adjust the scale of salary should be moderate. Now, some paid extremely high and some have nothing. That too makes the gap wide between haves and not haves.

  • http://com i41

    Vicki, you nailed that bank lending crap head on. I know two people with several houses they have bought, paid off, sold, and built! The wife is a radiologist and he is a PE engineer, were going to borrow $250,000 to buy land to set up a business. The banks wanted contracts for the products to be produced, you cann’t get contracts till a product is produced to show potential customers. With the salaries of these 2 and land owned, 3 years ago it would have in and out with the bank. I know I mothballed my my equipment and laid off the crews because of the more invasasive government control in my company. The envior green b–l s–t of using renewelable products to make pellets for heating stoves. Problem was banks wanted me to to SBA, which is loaded with chair polishers and that never have done a damn thing, but work with the government paper shuffling. I told them to blow it out their pompous rears when I would have to go to classes for over a month on my dime, before any possiblity of knowing if money would be approved for the putting more people to work and the purchase of more equipment. The classes were for EPA standards and safety, even though I have been MSHA, HAZMAT, and been a certified firefighter for 2 decades. Banks now are requiring more paper work and nit picking like if you photo copy something it had better not have wrinkles or curled edges. When I hear some one brag they are an investment banker, in my book they rank right up there with all degreed public leeches, they produce nothing but stife and complexity of money management on the citizens. Over the years when I was in livestock production, the bankers couldn’t loan enough to you to buy and expand your herds when prices were high, but when prices went to hell, these same jackwagons who called in the note. Who was complicate in the mess, investment and stock market clowns betting on paper, Hillary inside trading come to mind. Check the grain markets right now and the connection of government programs of idling crop land for decades and all they other “program”. The housing mess was caused by Freddie and Fannie and the giant bubble, when every swingung worthless dog was entitled to a shack. Since our elected fed wonks cann’t tell me what costs I will have on my business between healthcare costs, increased taxes, envior costs. Since I don’t use batteries, I use big diesel gensets, so cap and trade crap is another unknown cost. So the smuck National Marxist Democrat Communist Party dinks have created a massive f–ked up system in all areas they have touched, and if you socialist bastards disagree, you must be a union or a welfare no mind!! Which the democrat have increased by unemployement of up to 2 years.

    • ChangingTimes

      i41

      You are a nasty crusty ole buzzard which makes me fearful because I am always agreeing with you or go beyound your extremism as some one here called it. I think your cows need an id chip in their ear so that you can be tracked down when they give sour milk.

      • Bob Wire

        haha hehe! he can sting and stink at times, sometimes all at once.

  • Sam

    All I can say is that gold has always been the best BAROMETER of a nation’s currency and economy. Despite what Washington says, we DO have inflation – and quite probably are in the beginnings of a runaway inflation. Worldwide, gold is doing well where countries are constantly devaluing their currency. This country, England, Europe, Japan, China: as gold climbs, the currency falls. Should you BUY gold. Yes, because gold has always been WEALTH STORAGE since the days of ABRAHAM. Gold for wealth storage, silver for trade.

  • Vicki

    “The banks are using our tax money while hoarding cash and our federal government has not instructed them to make loans.”

    Isn’t telling banks to make loans what caused the housing bubble that was the trigger if not the main cause of the economic adjustment in 2008?

    I am not surprised that banks are being VERY cautious. They are run by people and when burned people tend to shy away from that which burned them.

    • ChangingTimes

      The blow out was cause by numerous factors such as the reserve ratio being set to allow banks to basically lend money they did not have, the use of sweeps, the lending practices and products allowed, the elimination of the barrier between investment banking and lending banking, the derivatives, the credit default swaps, the lies at Freddie and Fannie, the AIG involvement in foreign government pension funds, the mortgage backed securities, and all the other schemes to blow the economy up until it could stand no more fantasy about everyone being equal as far as a loan was concerned as long as they had a fair credit rating.
      So much action and fortune could be make in the home lending market and products that were based in that market that no other lending was taking place at a level that was needed to move the nation along. If an immigrant worker and spouse could get a 350000 dollar loan for a house that should have cost less than 70000 while a business could not get a 100000 loan, the home buyers were cornering all the money although their future depended on a job at a business usually. The home market consumed a lot of loan money and paying back the loans will consume even more. The so called unraveling can be even more costly.
      When banks decided not to lend each other money, the crash was on. Shorters of bank stock would have bankrupt them all as their stock value dropped well below the money they needed to lend to continue operations. No body would deposite money with a bank that was about to fail either. They are forced to publish their financial condition unless they are the all too common foreign bank like RBC and BBVA or whatever the name of the Spanish bank that bought Compass.

      Remember, the federal government cannot go bankrupt because it can print money. The states, counties,and cities can bankrupt because they can only tax. The federal government is the source of all money. Asset value is the source of wealth. The value of assets is being destroyed by inflation because no one can afford to put the assets to use at the current costs. That is why so many assets are on the market. But, who wants them. They are not productive.

      Inflation forces people to concentrate on essentials when their earning’s increase does not match the inflation rate. That is happening now. Again, non-essential producing assests will decline in value. Government often is the owner of many non-essential assests such as stadiums and arenas. If these fail to make money, more essential basic services, water,police, fire protection, sewerage, and waste removal will rise. Has this been happening? Yes.

      Only the rich can support a yatch dealership. The US has many rich people. They made big profits off the vast amount of money flowing in the US in the 15 years prior to 2008.

      Money is out there now in the trillions. It has to be there because the federal government has spent it and we still have fractional reserve banking. The banks are just not lending. They are investing their money in sure things. Which is bad. The only sure payer is the federal government.

      So, the government allows the banks’ wealth to grow so the banks can support government spending. Not a bad system until all the money goes overseas to pay for plastic toys.

  • http://www.isonicinfiniterocket@skyrocket.gov.com STEPHEN ANDERSON

    HI DAD,
    GOO” MORNIN , its so sunny today in vegas i was suprised to know your majesty was lokin throu the valiant spectrum of the brighter blink of the perfection of the gravitational supremacy of righteous living,, YOUR ROYAL MAgesty ot is true obamamania is out… i will like to remind you a storey once upon a time in disney WORLD when hijackers blew our plane …once upon a time in the history of of osama bin laden who shammed mans pride bye blowing blew ” bye bye’ many years many years … dad let the plane ” the boeingalpha qa380 air borne soldier fly pass president barrack behind where he was saluting the ROYAL YWHYTE HOUSE SEALZS ………SOUND SELAH SELAH
    FRESH ENHEINZ PRINCESS are victorious queensz…..bye

    • http://?? Joe H.

      WTF?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

    • Christin

      Okay, I’m sorry I just took the time to read this illegiable goop.

  • Scott

    May I humbly suggest that it’s the *dollar*, not gold, that is screaming against the incumbents.

    • Bob Wire

      may I suggest , a dollar screams ! and not “against” anyone it particular .

  • da norseman

    I can hardly wait to see Pelosi get dethroned as Speaker when she is forced to hand over the gavel to her successor. She has been nothing more than a detriment to this nation and the biggest disgrace to the seat she holds. She is the most unpopular House Speaker this nation has ever seen. Though she may win reelection within her own district since a majority of the voters there are dumb enough to believe she is great and that the rest of the nation would place her on a pedestal. Her supportive constituents and interest groups are inept to the concept and just don’t get it!

    After four years of seeing her as House Speaker, we freedom-loving Americans have seen enough! It’s curtains for Ms. Pelosi and her commie-loving progressive cronies who show a deaf ear toward their constituents and stick with the progressive agenda when they don’t understand what the word “no” means.

    It is worse enough when she is just two heartbeats from the presidency. If anyone is “astro-turfing”, she’s the one!!! We don’t need anyone who addresses illegal immigrants as “patriots” and freedom-loving Americans as being “un-American”. It’s time for her to go!!!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      da,
      She doesn’t consider freedom loving people as unAmerican. She considers then as terrorists!!!!

    • Eric Bischoff

      Geez that’s funny because actually she has been called the most effective majority speaker in America ever. I may not agree with all of her decisions but I can recognize accomplishments. Do I detect some sexism? Park you McCarthy bull rhetoric would you it makes you sound like a moron.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Eric,
        Yeah right! That’s why some of the dems are calling for her to step down as she is hurting their chances at re-election!!! Remember “astroturf”? “Vets are all possible terrorists”? ” We’ll just have to pass the bill to see what’s in it”? Those were all jewels spoken by that “most effective majority speaker ever”!!!!! If you truly believe all that you spew, then you sir are a fool!!!

      • ChangingTimes

        She could be called the Queen of Mars and I still would not like her ideas and policy direction. She is a hydra trying to please all the fringe constituency at once using the nations treasure to do so.

      • da norseman

        She’s effective in helping illegal immigrants gain U.S. citizenship, that’s all I know! She’s just one of those typical San Francisco leftist commies.

  • Carlucci

    The Republicans are just as bad. They rubber stamped every destructive freedom stealing thing Dubya put out there, not to mention the phony “wars” to “protect freedom”. If you believe that, I have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell. These are not wars, but very expensive invasions to destroy the infrastructure of a country like Iraq, and now Pakistan. Iran is on the drawing board to be next. The poor clueless kids who volunteer for the armed forces “to protect our freedoms” have no idea that they are just being used as cannon fodder. If they are lucky enough to come back home, many of them end up homeless with terrible physical and/or mental health issues.

    There should be a big housecleaning in Congress and they should all be kicked out except for Dr. Ron Paul. If encumbents get kicked out all over the place that will send a message that their constituents are tired of the crappy job they are doing and they must be fired. It will also send a message to the new members of Congress that they’d better do the will of the people or they will be replaced as well. Yes, the prez is a big fat loser, but we need to go green and recycle Congress.

    • independant thinker

      “The Republicans are just as bad. They rubber stamped every destructive freedom stealing thing Dubya put out there,”

      The Democrats with their filibuster proof majority did nothing to repeal those thefts of freedom and have even enhanced them.

  • DaveH

    I remember the Jimmy Carter days well, as I was just beginning my work life when he was elected. I remember how many people were convinced by Government that the oil companies were the cause of the inflation. Funny, that after Jimmy’s raggedly butt was thrown out of office, the inflation subsided. I guess those dastardly oil companies just decided to be nice when Reagan was president.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I also remember when Jimmy Carter decided to start the Department of Energy, whose sole purpose was to get us off of our dependance on foreign oil. Looks like not only did they fail to do that, now we are stuck paying some 260,000 people they now employ, along with another 100,000 or so that they contract out, and weve been paying and paying for all these years, and continue to do so today, while they are growing and growing more and more people to suck our tax dollars out of us with. Amazing isnt it. This department needs eliminated, as it never did was it was made to do. Thanks Jimmy.

      • Conservative at Birth

        Let’s eliminate the Departments of: Education, Energy, EPA, Fire them all and let them see what it is like.

      • Mick

        Conservative at Birth says:
        October 20, 2010 at 11:03 am
        Let’s eliminate the Departments of: Education, Energy, EPA, Fire them all and let them see what it is like.

        ********************************************************
        The department of education is very dangerous, they take young minds and mold them to their ideological views and leave them incapable to think for themselves.
        They have brainwashed so many over the past few decades that we see the result of it today, people incapable of seing that our beloved America is becoming the whipping post of the world with a Congress and president aiding the process…
        Wake the hell up folks…… Grow a pair and start fighting against the people and organizations decimating our civilization.

      • DaveH

        I agree, Mick. Our first priority should be to get Big Government out of the education of our children.

      • KimM

        I too agree! How are the children to learn anything but, when the “Teachers” are members of a union? It isn’t a far stretch to equate unionism with communism, much of Karl Marx’ doctine involved the organization of the proletariat(Work Force)teaching the young.

      • KimM

        A mind my be a terrible thing to waste, but a closed mind is just a terrible waste!

      • Bob Wire

        Well Jimmy was right ! He just couldn’t get it done.

        But that doesn’t change him being correct. You can look at the Carter administration and come away with many ideas and notions. His biggest failure was not being an effective leader, as we see even today the GOP has little interest in doing anything but overcoming any and all DNC administrations. There was no cooperation without it being leveraged, extracted. Jimmy Cater wasn’t well acquainted with such adversarial conditions. As a notion , we were in turmoil, the Vets were coming home, military complex was taking a back set after many years of being in the forefront. And Nixon’s final years were spent defending his administration and the Fed was left to drift.

        Dave bought up the matter of “giving” to the needy ~ and wished to suggest Conservatives best their counterparts in giving. Going so far as suggesting “Liberals” being greedy and tight wads of sorts. That conservative might corner the market in giving.

        It is the churches that give the most, The Catholic church made up of 1 billion members world wide of all persuasions that gives the most.

        All Church organize their giving and this makes them the most effective and the largest “givers” ~ the process of giving comes by and large without press, photo opts or fanfare as this is the nature of giving.

        Now if you wish to believe that all Catholic’s are card carrying GOP member’s and Mexico is full of Conservative Catholics you might have an argument.

      • DaveH

        Bob,
        I was speaking from personal experience, which I know is a very small subset of reality. But if you have some proof that indicates that Liberals are more generous with their own money than are Conservatives, please post it.

      • DaveH

        Here’s some evidence for my hypothesis:
        http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

        I’ve shown you mine, Bob. Please show me yours.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Barb Wire,
        The church is the PEOPLE!!! The four wall that surround them is just a building. The people give the tithes to the church hierarchy and then they decide who the money goes to!!! The church is made up of dems, repups, independants, and others!!!

      • ChangingTimes

        I am wealthy, conservative and do not give anything to anyone or organization outside my family. I have a relative who is liberal and all involved in the Democrat party. He is wealthy. He gives to the church, whiner groups, and animal savior groups but not to his own family. So, it must be genetic. We are both not likly to give to those outside our causes. But, we will both give a little. Not a whole lot.

      • Bob Wire

        Sorry, I’m running a man short this week, ~

        Dave, you flat out stated the liberals was stingy ~ while not a liberal myself , I thought it a far reach and worthy to address. ~ The very ‘spirit” to the nature of “giving” doesn’t offer us much to count or consider and largely undocumented. ~ But that doesn’t seem to deter some people from trying. We left with personal testimony and what documentation that can be found.

        In so doing, we find all kinds of valuable information. ~ Like at a party, how 2% of the people attending eats 37% of the nuts.

        I did find this article and even though this author is attempting to support your claim, I find it even and balanced and wish to share it for your consideration. I found it believable, while the author wishes to place “church giving” in the conservative camp. I know for a fact many liberals attend church service and in fact, do hold positions as pastors ,deacons and elders

        ” Americans give sums to charity equivalent to 1.67 percent of G.N.P., according to a terrific new book, “Philanthrocapitalism,” by Matthew Bishop and Michael Green. The British are second, with 0.73 percent, while the stingiest people on the list are the French, at 0.14 percent.

        (Looking away from politics, there’s evidence that one of the most generous groups in America is gays. Researchers believe that is because they are less likely to have rapacious heirs pushing to keep wealth in the family.)

        When liberals see the data on giving, they tend to protest that conservatives look good only because they shower dollars on churches — that a fair amount of that money isn’t helping the poor, but simply constructing lavish spires.

        It’s true that religion is the essential reason conservatives give more, and religious liberals are as generous as religious conservatives. Among the stingiest of the stingy are secular conservatives.

        According to Google’s figures, if donations to all religious organizations are excluded, liberals give slightly more to charity than conservatives do. But Mr. Brooks says that if measuring by the percentage of income given, conservatives are more generous than liberals even to secular causes.”

        I want agree with this assessment on the matter of “giving”.

        My truth is , I feel stingy as I don’t give as much as I could, but until all of my responsibilities are met, I maintain some prudence in the matter and believe charity should start at home. If I am weak, I can’t help anyone.

      • Bob Wire

        No time now Dave, but it’s a worthy subject and I’ll get back to it. ~ enjoy your banter

        It’s curtain call here.

      • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

        Booby Wires, are these receptionists or recipients ?

    • Bob Wire

      Hmm? Ronnie, I remember too, I remember how the fix was in to not release the Americans held hostage by Iran as the GOP hoped to make it a political chip, allowing Ronnie to walk into the White House with “one HUGE problem solved! My hero!

      I remember how the Capital Hill elite did everything in their power to foils anything Carter attempted to do and worked it to when he looked like a goose. ( which wasn’t too hard to do anyway) Much like they are trying to do to Obama today ( with less results), tie the hands of government, making it ineffective, prolonging Americans misery for political party gains.

      ” Domestically, the (Reagans) administration favored reducing government programs and introduced the largest across-the-board tax cuts in American history. The economic policies enacted in 1981, known as “Reaganomics,” were an example of supply-side economics. Reagan aimed to encourage entrepreneurship and limit the growth of social spending, as well as the reduction of regulation and inflation. Economic growth saw a strong recovery in the 1980s, helping Reagan to win a landslide re-election.
      (oops! what have we here)
      The national debt increased significantly, however,

      darn those tax breaks !

      oh shucks ! ~ that pesky national debt thing again !

  • Bob Wire

    Fair Play? Not here! There’s all this gold to sell!

    The engines that fuels politics are hard at work ratcheting things up to election. If you are in the right position, It is Harvest Time.

    All these “illusions” that have created markets and demands are coming full bloom and it’s time to cash in.

    There no interest in notions of “fair play” to be found.

    • Conservative at Birth

      I am playing to win, not to lose. Is that unfair?

      • Bob Wire

        I understand ~ 2nd place is no place. Then you shouldn’t mind playing tit for tat?

        ~ I grew up in a neighborhood, where you didn’t pull out anything that you couldn’t envision yourself eating.

        You can’t expect to plant corn and grow cotton. What we plant is what we reap. The first liar hasn’t got a chance. But if we start down that rode of lies ~ then only lies will be our harvest.

    • DaveH

      Bob,
      Read this article about the modern economy of Argentina. Keep in mind that in the early 1900s Argentina was ranked as one of the most robust economies in the world:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Argentina#The_modern_era
      Don’t think for an instant that we can’t follow in their footsteps.

      • Bob Wire

        Wasn’t that where the affluent German’s hid their booty? ~ I will look into it Dave , thanks

      • http://?? Joe H.

        DaveH,
        I guess Bob wasn’t impressed enough to comment!! course I didn’t think he would!!

      • Bob Wire

        WoW! what a roller coaster ride they’ve been through ! Good read Dav. thanx

        The Central Banking system most noteworthy and I found the criticizing summary most interesting;

        “The Kirchner Administration began pursuing a price truce with retailers as early as 2005; but, with macroeconomic pressures at these levels, the initiative soon failed.[66] To make matters worse, in early 2007 the administration began interfering with inflation estimates and, as of mid-2009, continues to do so[67] (by how much, of course, remains a subject of debate; but, where the Economy Ministry has refused to acknowledge inflation greater than 10%, their own measure of implicit private consumption prices (a factor in GDP estimates) suggests inflation had reached nearly 20% by mid-2008, and remains in the order of 12%).[54]”

        Nobody likes to hear bad news. ~ Today I have great concerns with many things, inflation being but one. Not owning or controlling enough to heavily invest at my age, I’m a cash and carry guy with zero indebtedness and carry a modest accounts receivable that rolls over from month to month. I have a few holes in my bucket, late pay and penalties sometimes. But miles ahead of anyone 20 to 50 or more grand down.

        I don’t know where this is to end , I plan to die and screw everyone.

        Seems I’ve excelled at being an underachieve, but I’ve shirked no duty or responsibility and at 62 , drew no unemployment,held no government job or subsidized job (exception 2 years Army, volunteered for the draft in 67), accepted no grants, accepted no leg up by government with one exception. I took advantage of the schooling VA benefits offered after coming stateside. Self employed since 78, employ three and raised 3 children.

        I reserve the right to say I am a conservative and to cash in when I’m ready. I’ve rowed my own boat with only family and Gods help.

        Now I’ve learned to not judge myself by looking at others or what they’ve got. And I try very hard to not judge other unless they get in my face.

        I feel blessed and rich in many ways, may I share that with you?

  • Patriot

    If you have not done so I suggest reading Trickle Up Poverty, by Michael Savage! Our President is as anti-American as can be, his policies are by design and his radical Marxist relationships are unmistakable! If socialism & Marxism is good for us and that is what he truly believes then why does not just come out and call it for what it is? If he is so smart and knows all; why are all his records from K thru college, not to mention his passports, birth certificate, etc. all locked away? Most of all why are we not demanding these records and how in the world did we as a nation elect this imposter? There are so many questions and yet no answers. We need to band together like never before to protect our freedoms and liberty, November 2 cannot get here fast enough! This is only the beginning, keep the faith!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Those on the left will not give Michael Savage the time of day, because the truth is not in them, and Michael Savage is going to give you the truth right between the eyes, and they cant take it. Thats the whole truth to the matter.

      • Patriot

        Good point! It is not about left or right, just right or wrong and it is not only the left most media types on both sides dismiss Savage that is why I like want he says, he caters to no-one and that is where most of the truth is. All I want is the facts and then I can make up my own mind based on facts without the BS!

      • Joyce from Loris

        I like Savage as well. I will never forget the “Dumbest Caller of all Time” segment. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry!

  • Pat Ridge

    Let me get this straight everything was just fine and beautiful when Obama took over in Jan 2009!!!!There was no wars going,the unemployment rate was was very low(!!!!!!!!!!!!!,the deficit was okay(!!!!!!!!),no Banks were collapsing etc Come on people when Obama took over the USA was in a mess,I have meet a few (not many!!!) fair minded Republicians who admit the country was in dire straits when Bush left office but hey it’s all Obama’s fault now.Can Obama do better yes but how about some fair play here.

    • Joyce from Loris

      No Pat, things were OK until 2006. It’s a democrat thing, you know?

      • Bob Wire

        So 9-11 was okay? The Iraq invasion was ~ Okay.

        and Terri Schiavo collapsed in her St. Petersburg, Florida home in full cardiac arrest on February 25, 1990. She suffered massive brain damage due to lack of oxygen and, after two and a half months in a coma, her diagnosis was elevated to vegetative state. For the next few years doctors attempted physical therapy and other experimental therapy, hoping to return Terri to a state of awareness.

        “On February 25, 2005, a Pinellas County judge ordered the removal of Terri’s feeding tube. Several appeals and federal government intervention followed, which included U.S. President George W. Bush returning to Washington D.C. from a vacation to sign legislation designed to keep Terri alive. After all attempts at appeals through the federal court system were unsuccessful, Terri’s feeding tube was disconnected on March 18, 2005. Terri died at a Pinellas Park hospice on March 31.

        In all, the Schiavo case involved 14 appeals and numerous motions, petitions, and hearings in the Florida courts; five suits in federal district court; Florida legislation struck down by the Supreme Court of Florida; a subpoena by a congressional committee to qualify Terri for witness protection; federal legislation (the Palm Sunday Compromise); and four denials of certiorari from the Supreme Court of the United States.[3] The case also spurred highly visible activism from the pro-life movement and disability rights groups.

        and this is somehow ~ Okay?

      • Conservative at Birth

        Yes it is. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Protect those who cannot protect themselves. Roe V Wade allowed the murder of 43M innocent children. Is that okay?

      • Bob Wire

        hmm? interesting statement.

        children? ~

        so eating eggs is the same thing as eating chickens?

        So women, that make up half the world population have limited rights

        to their bodies and personal affairs requiring mandates and government

        to dictate?

        I feel your argument most noble and for all the right reasons.

        Women are the “host” to life leaving men short responsibility regardless if he’s willing to carry it or not. I see a great disparity and disconnect there.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Barb Wire,
        where is the mans rights in the issue?? If the woman decides to keep the baby the man has no choice but to support the baby till 18 or 21 years of age. If the woman decides to murder the child, the man has no right to his child. This seems right to you??

      • Bob Wire

        Joe; “the man has no choice but to support the baby till 18 or 21 years of age”

        If this was a lead pipe cinch, You’d offer a good argument Joe, as we see so ofter this is just no the case.

        Women and children are some of the poorest among us followed by the aging. That is a lead pipe cinch.

        “if and “should” is not a strong enough nail to hang your hat on.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Barb wire,
        rather than dance around the question, how about answering it!! You do know how don’t you???

      • Bob Wire

        Dance around ? ~~ Give me a break Joe ~

        Women carry the burden of child birth ! If they are “lucky” they get help from “the father” or from friends , family or love ones that “wish” to get involved. ~ More times then not ~ it is women helping women! Even if there is a loving caring father involved in this process of birthing children.

        You dance around that “FACT” for a while ~ show us your rooster strut and explain to us why ” Men and government” should have “equal say” in the matter of hosting life.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Actually, everything was going great under Bush, until his last year, when everyone who knew anything, knew for one, he couldnt run again, for two, that Cheney was going to run, for three, that the Republicans were probably going to run 156 year old John McCain at a time when people are sick of career politicians, and four, that Obama or Hillary was going to be president. First course of business, was all business’s knew the tax monster was coming. What does that mean? It means save cash, your going to need it, because they are going to take it. How do you save cash in a business world? Lay off workers. Cut back production and buying materials for production, which affects the business you buy raw materials from. The economy slowed down dramatically. Still, since Obama came in, millions since then have lost their jobs, and millions more to follow when he rescinds the tax cuts. What has he done to make things better? Nothing. He continues to tout raising taxes on successful business’s and on successful people, and give handouts to failing companies like GM, Chrysler, and expand unemployment, welfare, and food stamps, to reward those who have failed. And you blame this on Bush? Give me a break. Bush took over a huge recession from Clinton, and he never once stood there pointing fingers and crying “look what a mess he left us in”. No, he rolled up his sleeves and went to work. Within two years of Bush, things were going good, really good Pat. Two years into Obama, not so good. And your just like the rest of the left wing losers. You point the finger and blame someone else. Two years and he had made things 10 times worse, and thats the bottom line, and he is continuing to run us downhill and make it worse. Bush climbed out of Clinton’s hole in 2 years, and turned it around. Whats Obama’s problem? Lack of leadership? Lack of ideas? Lack of care for the United States? Lack of class? I find it a combination of all of the preceeding. Its time for him to go, and time for all of you that make excuses and live your lives blaming someone else for everything, to grow up and just stop it. Look in the mirror and see the person that causes you most of your problems, and deal with that person, and that alone will make the world a better place. But stop pointing fingers and being a victim. Its such an easy part to play.

      • Shasta

        wow~~Beberoni, I really like what you said, and so TRUE! AMEN!

      • Christin

        Yes, very well said.

    • Conservative at Birth

      Actually the Republicans lost seats in 2002 and 2004, long proceeding the 2006 Democrat takover. The Republicans mistake was in being Compasionate Conservatives, instead of holding to true Conservative principles. In other words, becoming more like Progressives (Socialists, Communistst, Nazzis, etc.)

      • ChangingTimes

        yes

      • bruce d.

        I agree with that also.

      • Bob Wire

        “Compassionate Conservatives”, hmm? that went over like a thousand points of light, ~ It didn’t make sense and still doesn’t.

        Compassionate to whom and about what? darn near an oxymoron.

    • DaveH

      No, Pat, everything was not okay. Bush allowed government spending to grow out of control. But remember that the last two years of his presidency, the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress. Yes, he should have done a lot more vetoing, and we shouldn’t be wasting our soldiers and resources in a vain attempt to save the world. But still, that does not excuse Obama from taking us even further down that dangerous road.
      All the Bush blaming in the world isn’t going to solve our problems. Do some reading at the Libertarian sites to learn some reality about economics and government. Mises.org, Reason.org, and Cato.org.

      • Bob Wire

        ” All the Bush blaming in the world isn’t going to solve our problems.”

        So true, nor is all the Democrat and Obama blaming. I feel, you and many others wise enough to agree.

        It’s just fun! and in Vogue !

        Both, people and the media are doing exactly what they have done to Cater,Clinton,Nixon,Ford, Sr. Bush and W. ~ only the timing it starts, varies with each. ~

        Sr. Bush, was caught falling around, down the steps of Air force One, falling here and falling down there, throwing up on a few Japanese dignitaries during a big wing ding dinner offered in his honor. ~ I don’t even think it was broccoli.

        Bless his heart, being sick away from home is no fun, I don’t care who you are.

        We seem to thrive on their humiliation and embarrassment. It drove Nixon off the edge, to where paranoia set in and destroyed a stellar political career with many great achievement to his credit.

        He was not a perfect man but an most able statesman no less. We destroyed him with his own weakness.

        Regan was one of the few who escaped much of this. For one thing, Rarely did he speak in “absolutes” but when he did , he had a way of connecting with the people and nailing it.

        When he wasn’t doing that , he was napping and hiding under a veil of “plausible undeniably ”

        I have nurse/friend that works Geriatrics, she tells me, these old folks are having a ball! and we are the ones that’s suffering! They are like little children, wanting to run and play ! getting into things ! stealing from each other, playing grab ass games. They can act sick and pitiful just to play tricks on you.

        This was where the Gipper was headed before he left office and I feel he was protected by staff. This might account for him dodging this bullet, ~ the fate of all others.

        We need a higher caliber of politician from all party affiliations across the board.

        But how to get them? An earlier poster suggested removing the attorneys! No how that might work ~ is yet to be see.

        That would be like sending an electrician to paint your house. You’d end up with paint everywhere and spending more money on paint and material then required while the final outcome being most uncertain.

        There is “something lacking” in the “calling” to political life today, something is missing that should be there, and something “is there” that shouldn’t be.

        At that point, I need help in elaboration and defining. I just don’t know.

        Would anyone care to expand on the thought?

  • Bruce Eden

    The only way the economy will rebound in short order, is if the elected apparatchik take heed from We the People and start cutting federal income taxes drastically. Cutting the income tax in 1/2 will give a huge boost to the economy and create a glut of revenue to the government. At the same time, government programs will have to be eliminated by at least 30% as we did in NJ several years ago under the Republican regime there. It worked only as long as the Repubs remained in power. The minute the Democrazies took power in NJ, everything went to hell! We need to slash taxes across the board and maybe get the Tea Party representatives to eliminate all federal income taxes and pass a FairTax of 10% across the board, and 20% if you want certain deductions like mortgage interest and capital gains, with the proviso that the FairTax can never have a “Sunset” provision and can never be raised.

    • Bob Wire

      If I remember correctly wasn’t New York City actually one of the first receptionists of a Federal bail Out?

      June 30th 1978 ~ Ford administration

      New York officials took a different view. They thought they had finally convinced the country — and through the country the President — that New York had to be rescued. Governor Hugh Carey considered the loan a “vindication of New York’s case.” He thanked the American public for its “support and solidarity,” but he voiced no gratitude to the man in the White House who had kept him waiting so long.

      The loan, as the President emphasized, is no handout. If Congress approves it, as expected, the Federal Government will advance the city up to $2.3 billion each year through June 30, 1978. The loan must be repaid within the year it is made, and it will carry 1% higher interest than the U.S. Treasury borrowing rate, currently about 7%. Thus, the Government will turn a small profit.

      To wangle the loan, which was necessary to prevent default, city and state officials were forced to take drastic actions that went against many a past promise. For the most highly taxed city in the country, the state legislature passed a $200 million increase that includes a 25% raise in the city income tax as well as higher levies on corporations, banks, barber shops, beauty and massage parlors and inheritances. Also approved was a three-year moratorium on the redemption of $1.6 billion in city short-term debt held by individuals.

      Banks Agree. The municipal workers’ unions were persuaded to contribute to the rescue from their pension funds. They agreed to invest $2.5 billion in city securities and to refinance $700 million in bonds issued by the Municipal Assistance Corp. and $450 million in city notes. The New York banks, too, were persuaded to cough up still more in assistance. By promising to balance the state budget, now in deficit by an amount estimated anywhere from $300 million to $700 million, Carey won agreement from the banks to refinance $550 million in city notes and $1.1 billion in MAC bonds

      • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

        Bob Wire, Receptionists (plural More than one) Receptionist ( a noun) an office employee who receives callers, gives information etc.
        Recipient (a noun) ( see to receive), A person or thing that receives, receiving or ready or able to receive.

      • ChangingTimes

        Where were you when I needed a dictionary in tenth grade?

      • Bob Wire

        I wish to thank you from the heart of my bottom for your observant correction. ~ Your complete control of the written word is only superseded by your anal retention.

    • DaveH

      Bruce,
      You are right about the need to slash Government spending. But that is the only way to get the job done. The various tax schemes are just an illusion. If we cut them completely off taxes, they would just create more money (through the Federal Reserve) and tax us the hidden way (inflation).
      You might view the Fair Tax solution in a different light if you read this article:
      http://mises.org/daily/1814

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Inflation pretty much has always been there. I mean as time passes, the costs of things always seem to go up. But normally, your wages would go up accordingly also. Under 8 years of George W. Bush, prices didnt climb all that much, but my wages more than doubled in those 8 years. Under Obama, within a year of his reign of terror, my wages were actually decreased 10 percent, while everything at the store I buy went up in cost. Imagine that. At least Im not one of the millions that lost their jobs because of his administrations incompetance, and at least Im not one of the at least million more that are going to lose their jobs when he takes away the Bush tax cuts. Oh yes, that is coming next, and soon. It will be interesting on how they will stand there and point their fingers at Bush when this happens. Stay tuned……….

    • DaveH

      Beberoni,
      The Federal Reserve actually promotes inflation:
      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-15/bernanke-sees-case-for-further-action-on-economy-with-too-low-inflation.html
      Every extra dollar they add to the economy diminishes the buying power for peoples’ hard-earned cash savings. And Bernanke tries to sell us on it as a necessary goal? Can you believe that BS? They just use any excuse they can to rob the citizens of their buying power.
      Even when our economy was robust and productivity was rising, thus creating more and cheaper goods and services, the Federal Reserve was obsessing over “Deflation” (supposedly) and creating too much Fiat Money. Until we get rid of the Federal Reserve, we will not see the results of our increased productivity.
      Of course they are working in conjunction with Big Government.

  • Charles

    While this Whitehouse has traveled the world and apologized for America, the time must come when those in political power will have to say “I am sorry.” to America. For any of us who have hurt someone, to say, “I am sorry.” is difficult, but the deeper that hurt is, and the more people that hurt touches, the more difficult the apology. Guided and blessed by the G_d upon which this nation was founded, supported by unselfish hard working citizenry who fight for truth and perform un-noticed quiet acts of kindness with grace, the day may yet be won.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Charles,
      I noticed that there is nothing wrong with your “o” key so why the G_d? It is no a sin to write out the word God anywhere in he King James version that I know of!!!

    • Christin

      Charles,
      You are quite the optimist… The “Political Power” saying “I’m sorry” and apoligizing to the American People… WOW, now that I got to see… only in my dreams!

      God will not force their apology, nor will the evil ones willing give it… it is their intent to get rid of useless eaters and eliminate you (depopulation), clean “Mother Earth” of dirty factories and industries … and jobs (dedevelop) and have a New World Order or One World Government… their Utopia… aka Evil earthly Kingdom.

      Christians’ Kingdom is in heaven with God, our Father.

      • ChangingTimes

        God is not worried with the US now. HE is out trying to make my numbers will the lottery.

      • Christin

        Change,
        “Will” the lottery… “Win” the lottery… no, NOT God.

        HE is much more powerful and important than the little selfish box you have put Him in.
        Your mock of Him does not show the reverence He deserves .

      • Robert S

        Christin You’re right. They want to get rid of anyone who doesn’t produce. That is why all manufacturing is moving overseas. When gas hits $10.00 a gallon people won’t be able to drive meaning less pollution. Water poisoned with Fluoride and Gmo foods are killing Americans. Pharmaceuticals are making Zombies out of people docile enough to be led to the FEMA camps. Doesn’t look good.

      • Christin

        No, Robert S, it doesn’t look good.

        But we will fight the good fight until the end… when God choses to call His children home. He is still in charge.

  • Robert S

    People still don’t get it that we only have one party in this country. Until they all do we will keep voting in the same crap.

    • Conservative at Birth

      As I have stated before we need 535 non Lawyers, ie Mr. Smithe goes to Washington. Then things will change, and not until everyday Americans get involved, as they are now. It will take two more election cycoles to get rid of the corruption.

      • DaveH

        Conservative,
        I wish I could be so optimistic, but not nearly enough people have awakened to reality to get our country back from Big Government.
        Look how much misery the Russian people had to endure before they actually got enough political will to throw out the communists. And even then, thanks partly to the Clinton advisors who sold the Russians on our brand of socialism as being “Free Enterprise”, they didn’t get the job done. Now the phrase “Free Enterprise” is a dirty phrase to many (if not most) Russians, when in fact they never really experienced “Free Enterprise”. My personal opinion is that Clinton’s people did that on purpose, because if the Russians had gone to truly Free Markets with individual property rights, they would have waken up much of the world (including the United States) to reality.
        Czechoslovakia (now Slovakia and Czech Republic) ignored the advice of the Clinton admininstration and instead listened to Milton Friedman. They are doing well now (relative to their former condition).

      • ValDM

        Dave,
        The Russians did, in fact, have free enterprise, just not what they had imagined: they got the Russian Mafia.

      • DaveH

        No, Val, they did not. A large part of any successful Free Market system is the enforcement, by Government, of property rights. They lacked that and many other things that make up Free Markets. They are currently one of the most economically unfree countries in the world:
        http://www.heritage.org/index/Country/Russia

  • Stefan Albrecht

    The polemic an pandering is unbearable. No talk about who wasted Trillions on unnecessary wars, doubled the federal debt from manageable levels to problematic levels, and create the debt bubble in the first place by allowing bank leverage to balloon from a factor of 12 to a disaster of 40. Never mind that gold was at 250 when Bush took office and at 750 when he left. What kind of vote is that by your standards?

    • Joyce from Loris

      Why don’t you check where gold stood in 2006, when the democrats took control of the house and the senate??

      • Stefan Albrecht

        Lets try this! Gold was still up more than 100% during the time Bush took office and the Democrats took the House.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Uh Stefan, check your facts on the banks thing. Bill Clinton is the culprit, ie using Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac funds to lend to people who couldnt in a thousand years afford to pay it back, because “everyone should live the American dream of owning a house”. This is what caused the banks collapse man, did you not know this? The federal government backed up bad loans, the funding ran out, and ooops, we got a problem Houston. The Bush admin called for an investigation on this, but the problem was, Clinton set it up with Barney Frank as the head of the oversight committee on this, and he shot it down, saying no investigation was needed, that everything was ok. In the meantime, top democrats Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick were running this thing, writing their friends million dollar bonus checks out of these funds, and they milked it dry. Why all these guys are not in jail just amazes me. They are thiefs and lied in court, and got away with it. No, dont blame that on Bush. And dont blame 9-11 on him either. All that was planned and set up under Clinton also, as he was too busy playing with interns and cigars, and cutting our intelligence community in half, and nobody was there to notice these guys running around the country setting up their evil deeds. Selective memory you people on the left have. How you can omit the facts on things, I just dont understand. Amazing.

      • Stefan Albrecht

        Uhhhh! More pandering! The home owners of 2000 are not the ones in trouble, at least as long as they didn’t take out equity. The worst problem are the mortgages and home buyers between 2005 and 2007. Right after the SEC allowed leverage to balloon!!! The housing bubble was nurtured during the Bush years!!! Until 2006 the Democrats had no say what so ever!!!

      • bruce d.

        I disagree. Loans pushed by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. It created a massisive feeding frenzy from most banks. Then these loans were packaged and sold as AAA Bonds through dirivitives. It is Clinton who started the deregulation. Bush move to reign in Freddie and Fannie but
        Barney and Chris opposed it using the argument it was helping the poor people. Not only were the poor people hurt, most everyone eles was too.

      • Stefan Albrecht

        Just not true! Major hedge fund shareholders of Fanny and Freddy pushed them to take on mare risk. The argument was to aggressively compete with the investment banks. In the end it was a competition to take on more risk. All enabled by the SEC by allowing to raise leverage to a factor of 40.

    • DaveH

      No doubt, Stefan, that both parties have been culpable in growing our Leviation Government out of control. Leaders throughout history have lusted for ever-increasing power. It is the nature of the beast. Our Founders tried to prevent that with the Constitution, but alas, the Voters have set apathetically at the side-lines being deluded by one major party or the other.
      As Beberoni stated, Government didn’t engage in just “allowing bank leverage to balloon”. They encouraged it. And it was mostly the Democrats that were behind that encouragement. Do some reading at the Libertarian sites mises.org, reason.org, and cato.org to learn the reality of the collapse. Or read “The Housing Boom and Bust” by Thomas Sowell. I’m sure there are many other reading sources to enlighten you about the true nature of our economic collapse.
      The Federal Reserve and their excess creation of Fiat Money were also a big factor in the collapse.

      • Stefan Albrecht

        I have been an investment banker for 27 years, I know what happened! I am at heart a fiscal conservative and the 8 Bush years were thorough fiscal disaster. From wasteful wars, ballooning deficits, Republican enforced free trade agreements(already during the Clinton years, but the worst was the lax banking oversight and the SEC rubber stamping of the banking leverage increase from a factor of 12 to 40. This was just pure insanity. Leverage of 40 means a capital of 2.5%. That’s the volatility of not even a days trade. This happened in 2004 long before the Democrats took control of the house. I am tried of incompetent discussions. Let the Republicans take control again to run the ship finally into the ground! The core problem is that US policies create jobs all over the world, just not in the US and there is no way that the US situation can improve until this changes. Who again has been the driving political force behind trade agreements that disadvantage companies who produce in the US?

      • Stefan Albrecht

        One more thing! Without the Federal Reserve there would have been a revolution in the US a long time ago and all the US wars after WWII would not have been possible. Hmmm maybe really not such a bad idea to get rid of the FED.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        stefan,
        It’s a fact tha Bush warned congress a total of 32 different times about the housing debacle and they wouldn’t listen. Yes, it’s true that he in fact finally went along, but they were just as culpable if not more! They held the purse strings!!

      • Stefan Albrecht

        Who was in control of Congress until 2006? The SEC allowed leverage to spike from 12 to 40 in 2004. This action alone was insanity. Bush could have stopped all of it. Deregulation is not always the answer!

      • DaveH

        I don’t care what you’ve been for 27 years, Stefan. I am well aware that there are Liberal Economists as well as Conservative Economists. Your profession means little to me.
        Big Government has been the cause of our economic calamities. Without them Free Markets would quickly adjust to economic disruptions. And I don’t deny that Military excursions are expensive and wasteful. But they are just a part of the wasteful Big Government spending.
        Governments have no business in protecting people from themselves, whether individual people, or countries of people.

      • Stefan Albrecht

        I totally agree with you on that point. And yes, it is the nature of every entity trying to expand. Now that the government monster has matured it will be almost impossible to bring the genie back into the bottle. I predict that the system will need to collapse before this is going to happen. No matter who rules in Washington, nobody will reduce government voluntarily. When it is finally going to happen there will be a lot of economic pain. Without government protection of the mentally challenged (read stupid) common sense and freedom will finally make a comeback!

      • DaveH

        I still have hope, Stefan, that the electorate will become energized and learn the wisdom of what our Founders tried to create. If they don’t, I doubt a collapse will lead to any good. We will just be taken over by another despot who likely won’t allow any more Freedom than the people that caused the collapse. Luckily for me, I only have about 20 years left, so it won’t matter much to me one way or the other.

      • bruce d.

        In Florida Clinton used bribery with Doc Myers (R) and Alcee Hastings (D) to pass those free trade agreements. Much the same way Obama used bribery to pass the Healthcare Bill.

    • Jeep

      Stefan, check your facts…we have not spent “billions” in Iraq and Afghanistan. And, while you’re at it, tell us all how much 3000+ American lives are worth.

      • Stefan Albrecht

        As bad as 9/11 was, and I worked in Manhattan when it happened, it never justifies the expense, loss of freedom, and the dead and handicapped soldiers that followed. 34000 Americans die in car crashed every year! Who fights a war for them? The cost of both wars is already over 1 Trillion. Including long term costs the final tap will reach at least 2 Trillion. All part of the National debt!

    • ChangingTimes

      I never liked Pres. Bush. He was too liberal. But, he was not as liberal as Al Gore or John Kerry. So, he was my choice. He was also a nicer fellow than either of those robots.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        ChangingTimes,
        no insult meant, but your words make me shudder. You voted for someone because he seemed NICER?!?!? There are a lot of “nice” people out there that will spill your guts all over the ground! Or in this case destroy your country!

      • Robert S

        Changing Times Nice fellows don’t have tens of thousands of people killed on lies of WMD.

  • Brad

    The past few days I have read on the internet some where; I just can’t remember where but Obama’s 10-11 budgit will include 1 trillion more in deficit spending, could of been someone quoting from the CBO website, I’m not curtain. Company’s/states/individuals are feeling the effects of obamacare and HHS secretary doesn’t understand why things are going so wrong, could it be the “Rats” passed a bad bill and should have read it before voting for it, VOTE NOVEMBER 2nd.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      They have no clue of what they are doing, and his people are fleeing from him as fast as they can. Not quite 2 years in, and people are leaving his cabinet posts as fast as they can, trying to distance themselves from him. You know, I am pretty sure that the democrats will throw him under the bus before the 2012 election, and not even let him run for re-election, as they know he cannot possible win. Sit back and watch them eat each other. Its going to be a good show.

      • DaveH

        To the contrary, Beberoni, they know very well what they are doing. They are redistributing the legally acquired wealth of others.

      • Bob Wire

        legally ? okay ~ where else does wealth come from but from others?

        You have a diamond ring that you can’t eat, use or employ ? You trade it to someone that finds value in it for something you want or need or can use.

        Diamonds are worthless ~ (excluding industrial use) it’s the scarcity and illusions of value that create the demand. They grace the human body, usually the hand that rocks the cradled. It is this desire to have and please that predicates a wealth transfer.

        The true value small, the created value large.

        This is so with many things. As we see the powers in play attempting to increase the value of gold today.

        I see an ounce of gold equal to a polished stainless steel, S&W heavy frame, 357 in mint condition. ~if the value spread of these two items become to wide, something is wrong.

        Each of us has our own way of determining value and worth. It is the fluid personal assessment that allow wealth transfer to take place.

        How much are you willing to spend to see your woman light up?

      • DaveH

        What is your point, Bob?
        Gold, like any commodity, can be subject to overvaluation. But it generally holds its value relative to other items. There are several factors that make Gold valuable. One is its scarcity. Another is the fact that is virtually impervious to corrosion. Whatever the reasons, people throughout history have sought Gold. Who am I to predict the end of thousands of years of desire for gold?
        The higher price of Gold is mostly due to the lessening value of the dollar. Thus it becomes a store for value, much more so than the Fiat Dollar, which could become worthless in a very short time span. History is replete with examples of hyperinflation caused by excess paper money creation:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

  • rosina

    WOULDN’T BE AT ALL SURPRISED DAN AZ!
    This fool, what else can you call him, is not only a fool but a criminal. he is bound and determined to destroy, destroy, destroy.
    How can he be worth the pension he will get?
    Can this be stopped?
    Must he be protected for the next 50years at our expense because he WAS POTUS for a while? What a ridiculous situation.
    Carter was different. He was TOO GOOD to be in charge. A good person who truly felt for the poor BUT not an America Hating person. Look at what he does now to help all over the world.
    This OBARMY will never be like him. He is head of the criminal Acorn groups. Carter never used, as far as I know,thugs to win elections.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Carter was one of the worst presidents, but I agree he didnt have a damnation of America thing like Obama does. I have a heart for the poor also, but its not the governments job to take care of them, it is the job of the church, and that is why I tithe, and all Christians are called to tithe, “that there be enough food in the storehouse”. Its funny how these liberals cry separation of church and state, and yet they always want to create social programs and interfere with the church’s job, by taking involuntarily from us, and giving to those who do not want to work for it. Carter was unprepared to be in office, and those who surrounded him did a bad job, and a lot of bad decisions were made. But nothing like this Obama guy, who goes around and damns America at every turn, supplies lawyers at our cost to terrorists we caught trying to kill us, then imprisons our soldiers for doing their jobs. He apologizes for us being successful, and shames us to our enemies. Its time for him to go.

      • DaveH

        If the Government was greatly downsized, there would be more than enough private-sector charity to help the truly handicapped people. And Beberoni, you don’t have to be a church member to be charitable. The funny thing is that the Liberals I have known are the stingiest people when it comes to using their own money to help others.

      • Earl, QUEENS, NY

        Good point, DaveH. And of course we know how cheap the phony rich democraps are with their own money….but they’ll squander trillions of our hard earned money. The bumbling buffoon VP Biden gives only a tiny fraction of his income to charity. BH Oblunder has a half brother living in a hut in Kenya, earning only $12.00 per year. With all of Oblunder’s wealth, can’t he help his own brother????!!!! In fact, if we knew his address in Kenya, maybe we could send a twenty dollar bill to his brother, and in doing so, we’d more than double his income!! Of course the rich liberal democraps are a bunch of phony cheapskates!!

      • Eric Bischoff

        Actually if people were paid a fair living wage for their work, we wouldn’t have so many poor people and the churches would not be so overwhelmed.

        If the Republicans weren’t so busy exporting all of our jobs to the chinese we wouldn’t have so many unemployed poor and hungry people. I especially love this one today. The Chamber of Commerce is giving seminars to show business owners how to outsource their work to China to lower their product costs. Then they use the proceeds from the seminars to fund the republican candidates who will promote this. That’s one way but not the only way that foreign money has started to invade US elections.

        2009 statistics show that 43 Million americans live below the poverty level. What would Jesus say?

      • ChangingTimes

        Jesus would say that the poor get richer and rich get poorer so I am going to play pro baseball for the Yankees.

      • bruce d.

        Actually millions of Obama’s stimulus money went to create jobs in China as well as other foreign countries. Also, if the teachers union would allow bad teachers to get fired we would have better educated kids with a better work ethic that would be worth more in the work place. The left wants to subsidize rather than raise standards but when your 13.5 trillion in debt there is only only so much subsidizing left in the liberal playbook before the whole system breaks down.

      • libertytrain

        Eric, my first instinct was that Jesus would say get off your butt and get to work —– and despite how cold and heartless that sounds to the ones with their hands out (oftentimes generation after generation) to the government which means taking from our funds to take care of our own families which then means we have to work much harder — I believe having been down but not out, cause I’m not afraid to work at whatever it takes to get my family cared for – whether it’s scrubbing floors, cleaning toilets, flea markets, or eBay – there are ways – you just have to not be afraid to work.
        I like the old adage, “The good Lord takes care of those that take care of themselves.”
        And of course my favorite – “God does not make manifest his work in cowards.”

      • DaveH

        As usual, Eric shows his ignorance. Just who decides what a fair wage is, Eric? We pay more of our precious dollars to some overpaid Government Bureaucrats so they can pontificate what fair is? Meanwhile even more of our companies decide they’ve had enough and say goodbye. Then what do we do? Are Eric and his cohorts going to create the jobs? I doubt it. They’d be too busy jawboning about what’s fair, or who’s being discriminated against, or whether or not everybody has the same cubicle accoutrements.

      • DaveH

        43 million americans live below the poverty level? How can that be with all that Big Government that you Liberals have created?
        I have a solution for your Fair Wage problem, Eric. Get together with Dumniso, and the other Liberals, and start your own competing businesses. You can offer “fair” wages to your competitors’ employees, thus making the employees happy and also forcing your competitors to offer higher wages to keep their employees. And since you Liberals are superior in intelligence, you would have no trouble running those companies efficiently.
        I know, I’m blowing smoke up your rear. Because the reality is that Liberals don’t want to risk their own money. They would much rather tell other people how to spend theirs. Yes, that is right “their money”. The business owners have invested their money in hopes of future success which may or may not come (29% of business startups fail). Many people are employed by these Risk Takers. What do the Liberals do? They spend their money as fast as they can. Then they make effort to control those who haven’t.
        The Liberal way – Force and Theft.

      • Bob Wire

        ” dave says :” 43 million americans live below the poverty level? How can that be with all that Big Government that you Liberals have created?

        Dear David , If you would bother to look ~ proclaimed Conservative are not “lacking” in creating “Big Government”

        The rising numbers of the “working poor” are due in part to an on going “wealth transfer” that was created in the 80′s under yours truly “Ronnie Rayguns” It’s taken a while, but now many are feeling the “pinch” ~ yep ! you got it! ~ you and many others are not considered “the American People”

        How do you feel about that today?

      • Eric Bischoff

        The only thing Carter was unprepared for was the hornets nest that government is that he had just stepped into. In the end Carter is a better human being than all other presidents combined. A Nobel Peace Prize and a genuine good Christian. If you can’t see that you are blind.

        Reagan should have been arrested for treason his first day in office for conspiring with the iranians so that they wouldn’t release the hostages while Carter was still president. This way he had a better chance of winning. From there he went on to break more laws in Iran Contra scandal. He will eventually be exposed for being responsible for most of what ails us today. He wasn’t very smart, he was a B-movie actor but he sure made a mess of things and still people are blindly in love with him.

        I am constantly struggling to understand why the freedom and liberty crowd is enamored by the thieves and murderers and always makes fun of the nice guys. That is an American disease.

      • Jeep

        You’re so silly…even BO got a nobel! What a great prize that turned out to be…not!

      • bruce d.

        Carter is recognized as the worst president in modern times possibly only to be outdone by Obama who intention is to turn America into a Marxist society. Carter’s has been making statements over the past few years which shows he never had a handle on what he was doing.

      • DaveH

        What a surprise, Eric is sticking up for Jimmy Carter now. The man that promised us a great economy and then after things started crashing around us, he had the nerve to say we just need to tighten our belts.
        I doubt very seriously that we are going to get another man like Ronald Reagan who was strong enough to stand against the tide and stop the inflation before we became like Argentina in the 1980s (5000% in 1989) So “tighten your belts” and get ready for some real ugliness courtesy of Ignorant Dreamers like Eric.

      • DaveH

        And after Carter and his Congressional Democrats regulated and taxed our economy into an inflationary hole, he had the nerve to suggest more of the same poison:
        http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_crisis.html

        “Crisis of Confidence”? Is that what he calls it when Government destroys our economy? They should invite that guy to be on “Dancing with the Stars”.

      • Francis hutchinson

        Hey guys, compare two charts. 1. The Dow jones ind. chart- from1930-to1938. 2. The Dow jones ind. Chart-2008-to 2011. They both match up. Today we sit on the point of the chart where the Dow jones had a rally in late1937 and crashed into a depression in early 1938. The two charts run in the same exact pattern. Could this be the rally before the big crash?

  • Joyce from Loris

    You know, you hope and pray that things will change when the Republicans take power. Then you read something like this to scare you even more, confirm that things might not get any better and could get worse. We have to impeach this creature from our house. That needs to be job ONE when the newly elected folks take their oath.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Things will get much better when his party is booted out of office. As soon as the business world knew, in Bush’s last year, that pretty much a democrat was coming into power, the economy went into the tank, as business’s know that when the democrat tax monsters come into power, taxes go up, production goes down, and they have to make sure they have the reserves on hand necessary to feed the democratic tax monsters. When it is clear these losers are going, which is getting clearer and clearer by the day, and people come in that are friendly towards business and getting people working again, things will straighten up pretty quickly. But first weve got to get through all the millions that are going to lose their jobs when old Barack and his ilk take away the tax cuts, and start punishing the sucessful business’s again, right out of the democrats playbook. That way they can have bundles of cash to give to failures like GM and Chrysler. I mean, the facts just played out again, right there for all to see if anyone wants to see the truth, that these left wing liberals reward bad behavior and failure, ie payouts to GM and Chrysler in the billons, and punish success, by raising the tax rates of those who succeed. That is what they do, but soon they will be rendered as “lame ducks”, then in 2012 we can finish cleaning the house.

      • Joyce from Loris

        I agree, Beberoni, but I still want the idiot impeached! I don’t want two more years of him.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You and millions of us, but its not going to happen. At least not while he continues to pay thousands to a legal team to keep from having to produce a birth certificate or college papers that he doesnt seem to want anyone to see for some reason. Gee, I wonder what that reason could be?

      • Cathy

        I believe the reason for his failure to produce his college records is because people would know that he’s not as smart as he’s cracked up to be!

        Really!! So tired of everyone saying how “intelligent” he is. Uh-huh…prove it!

        PS John Kennedy’s IQ was 119 but I think he was brilliant. On the other hand, Nixon’s was 143. He was brilliantly deceptive. HA…

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Beberoni,
        I think he reason is that people will know that he go federal grants as a foreign student!! Federal crime!!

      • John Woodbury

        I agree JoeH. He is either committing fraud for only a natural born citizen can be president, or he committed fraud to get student loans as a student. I truly suspect he is Indonesian, he just came here and never bothered to affirm his American citizenship by age 21 as required by law. Then he could not confirm it so he just changed his name and ran with that. He never thought anyone would care. So now we have an illegal alien President. If not, where is the proof of Affirmation of US citizenship? Where and when did the official name change take place? Because, he was a citizen of Indonesia.

      • Buddy

        Maybe some things will get better when Obama is booted out of office, but economic things won’t. These effects linger on a lot longer that a presidential term. In fact, the FDR’s economic missteps have held back economic progress for near a century. For more current actions, the Clinton administration cut banking restriction enough to allow the real estate problems we have today. Also, don’t forget George W Bush who raided the US Treasury by creating mid-east wars.

      • Jeep

        That’s right Buddy! I heard that W actually set the charges in the twin towers himself! He did it to make sure they would fall. And, then he found some willing middle east wierdos, bought ‘em some plane tickets (after giving them the fundamentals on how to fly), and turned ‘em loose. All that so he could “raid the treasury”. Never mind the 3000+ dead and all those soldiers who just had to be sacrificed so that W could get his hands into the cookie jar and spend, spend, spend. Grow up.

      • bruce d.

        Your goofy.

      • Earl, QUEENS, NY

        That’s what I’ve been saying for some time, Beberoni. It’s been 21 months since BH Oblunder took office, but he and his democraps continue to blame Bush for the sick economy and huge deficits. But I firmly believe Oblunder and his democraps were to blame for this deep recession even before the obamanation began on 1/20/2009, maybe even before the disastrous 11/4/2008 election, when pre-election polls showed Oblunder with a lead over McCain. Of course Oblunder never takes responsibility. It’s always the same thing – either blame Bush, or lie about a make-believe recovery and try to take credit for it. Hopefully in the next few election cycles, the American voters will be wiser and not fall for the democraps’ lies again.

    • Ruby

      And then have the patience while the damage is being reversed.

      • DaveH

        I doubt, Ruby, that we can be patient enough. This is how I think it will unfold. The Republicans will gain majority in one or both houses. They will attempt to make some corrections but they won’t be enough to move the economy strongly into the black in those two years until the 2012 elections. Then the Democrats will convince many of the voters that the Republicans aren’t really effective, and the cycle will repeat. Even if the Democrats don’t regain complete power, they will continue their ball and chain behavior and our economy will just muddle along.
        There is one way, and one way only, to get our country back. We need to elect politicians that have the strength to dramatically and rapidly cut the size of Government. We need to get Government out of our wallets and out of our personal choices. There is only one political party with the Principles to accomplish that – The Libertarian Party. I won’t hold my breath waiting for people to wake up to that reality.
        http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      • Kate8

        DaveH – Lots of people are finally waking up to that.

        We switch parties back and forth, over and over, and the same agenda moves forward. Why does anyone think it will change now.

      • Jeep

        Spot on DaveH. The sheeple have the attention span of a gnat. And, they understand as much about the congress as they do about advanced rocketry. What can a Republican house do? Nada, zip, nil. Which is exactly what those of us who understand the political system we have think they should do. Well, I would hope that at least they would introduce legislation such as repealing health care, tort reform, extending tax cuts, and a short list of others. They will not be able to get anything passed in to law. The best that can be hoped for is to SHOW a conservative agenda. There is no way BO and company would allow a really conservative agenda to pass into law. And, heaven help ‘em if the Republican’s don’t at least try to introduce this legislation. Because I, for one, might actually have to lose faith in my Republican brothers and sisters and join the Libertarian Party (not that that would be a bad thing!)

      • bruce d.

        It would be the same as Democrats voting for Ralph Nader or The Green Party. Most on the right were happy with that as most on the left are happy with any move the right might take to the Libertarian Party. Then of course you have the Constitutional Party to split things up even more. It is one of Obama’s basic moves and he has been using right along ‘divide and conquer’. Keep people from uniting in a single effort. The Libertarian Party is a move toward pure ideology and away from any practical application.

      • DaveH

        Sure, Bruce, dream on. When a political party doesn’t really represent what the people want, they should vote for them because they can win? It’s people like you that have doomed us to mediocracy.

      • Jeep

        Again, DaveH, spot on! The Dems have shown us all how to be “lock-step” no matter the cost.

  • J.M.R.

    if he is its on our dime not his

  • dan az

    So there is one other thing that numnuts is good for besides waking up the masses.golden boy can join the ranks of the truly retarded.Has anyone seen if he was insider trading in the gold market yet?

    • DaveH

      His buddy George Soros is profitting mightily from Obama’s folly.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Thats because since Soros bought them, they owe him big time, and this is just part of their payback to him.

      • DaveH

        I believe that Soros purposely guides them in that direction so he can make more money. As a long-time investor, I know that it is difficult to make big money when markets are stable. Those who know what they are doing can make much more money in unstable markets.
        The Rich are well-versed in buying when the ignorant masses are selling, and then selling when the ignorant masses are buying. They shear the masses like sheep. They can only do that to people that are economically ignorant. Which might explain why schools do so little to make students more economically literate.

      • ChangingTimes

        Timing is of upmost importance now in the markets. All these run away gainers on low volume and low need rather than demand are very risky. What uses gold has are industrial and are in the jewelry trade. Beyond that, it cannot be used except as a hedge.

        The real winners are those who can borrow large US sums at very low interest, leverage those sums at a high ratio, and trade those sums for a foreign currency. But, sometimes the dollar puts up a stand or the yen is massivly sold cheap for dollars by the Japanese government.

        Best watch out for the big boys like Soros who trashed the pound sterling nearly to death.

      • Denniso

        Myers is confused and trying to spread his own confusion. Oil was down to $38 just before Obama was sworn in because the economy was in a freefall and oil was spiralling down. What was it previously under Bush before the crash? $150? Now it’s 1/2 of that under Obama.

        Gold? The crash began under Bush and global instability ensued. W/ the panic and instability, gold started rising and continued because we suffered the largest collapse in 80yrs and people flocked to the supposed security of gold as the stock market dropped and made market investing shaky to many. The gold marketers and pushers jumped in and aided in convincing people that the sky is falling and helped push the gold bandwagon further.

        The market has risen and regained about 85% of it’s value,yet there is
        still fear for the future w/ continued global instability.So, gold is still high…but, it’s going to crash since it’s another bubble and once it begans, watch out. People are now being greedy and staying in gold for the big gains. We’ve seen this before and the writing is on the wall. Take your profits out of gold and wait for the bubble to burst. Trillions are going to be lost in another blood bath,soon.

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        Oh yeah,
        We should take investment advice from Dumniso, a Liberal Hack who advocates the Socialistic policies that have resulted in economic misery for countries throughout history.
        Study the modern history of Argentina to get a glimpse of where we are headed if we listen to ignorant Liberals.
        Since February of 2009, the US Dollar has lost an average of 30% of its value compared to the currencies of 5 other countries with systems similar to ours: Australia, Britain, Canada, New Zealand, and Switzerland.
        The two biggest losses are to the Australian Dollar (50%), and the New Zealand Dollar (46%), both of which are ranked economically freer than the United States.
        Keep in mind the 85% recovery rate that Dumniso likes to state is affected by the value of the dollar and the fact that he conveniently picked the low of the market in that time period. Isn’t hindsight great. If only I was so prescient as Dumniso is (after the fact). That low, that Dumniso likes to start with, was established after the investors knew that Obama had been elected. Of course any intelligent investor knows what Democrats do to our economy and they reacted in accordance with that knowledge. If we instead use November 2008 as the starting point (the month Obama was elected), we see that the Dow achieved a November high of 9653. So using that as a starting point, the Dow (currently at 11,200) has gained 16%, less than the drop in value for the US Dollar since that time.

      • Denniso

        I wonder if DaveH is any smarter about economics than he is about history/political science. Socialism is quite new as an economic model and certainly has not existed ‘throughtout history’. It is a relatively modern response to the frequent abuses and excesses of raw capitalism and the almost total control of entire economies by industry and the wealthy ‘throughout history’.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Socialist workers party of America founded 1877!!!

      • DaveH

        I know about purposeful liars, Dumniso. I was married to a chronic liar for 13 years. And had a brother who was a chronic liar. You, Dumniso, are one of them.

      • DaveH

        And notice folks, that Dumniso had no retort to the content of my comment. He could only argue Semantics.
        Definition of Socialism:
        “governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods”.
        It has been going on for a very long time.

      • Denniso

        JoeH thinks that 1877 is ancient history. I guess any time before he was born is ‘throughout history’???

        DaveH is reduced to insults and name calling. Sorry, if you can’t stand the heat and are cracking up,so you’re having trouble coming up w/ anthing like a rational thought. I think you should take a break and go for a hike in the woods to clear your mind.

      • DaveH

        Dumniso,
        You are amazing. Do you really think anybody buys your bull?
        From Dumniso’s earlier comment “I wonder if DaveH is any smarter about economics than he is about history/political science”.
        Your comments consist of fabricated facts, innuendos, condescension, ridicule, and name-calling. They contain little (if any) substance. You can fool yourself, Dumniso, but nobody else.
        Personally, I’m glad you post here, Dumniso, so the people can see what little substance there is to Liberalism.

      • Denniso

        You don’t answer the point. Do you think 1877 qualifies as ‘throughout history’? Throughout much of human history there have been autocrats and dictators who controlled pretty much all of what people did, work and play. That wasn’t socialism. Look at countries like Sweden for a guide to modern socialism,that is a combination of markets and gov’t intervention and democratically elected leaders.

      • FreedomFighter

        The Progressive/Socialist/Communist Liberals must go, unless Democrat now means Communist, then ok, they must go too.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Warrior

        100% agree. Democrapic party has been taken over by the socialist and progressive factions. Anyone who aligns with them is themselves a traitor to this country.

        For God and Country!

      • http://non James

        Well that may be true. And the GOP has covertly be taken over by “The C Street Family”. SEE THE FAMILY, and C STREET, both books by Jeff Sharlet.

        James

      • http://msn Margaret

        All democrats need to go to hell impeach obama we get rid of him and this country will be much better off

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