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Wishing It Were So

October 15, 2010 by  

Wishing It Were So

Elected elites have been subverting the Constitution and encroaching into our affairs for decades.

The majority of the electorate — long content to occupy itself with earning a living, raising families and considering politics for only a short period of time (typically between Labor Day and the election) has finally awakened to the reality of a bloated and overbearing government. A poll released this week bears this out.

The Gallup/USA Today poll shows that a growing percentage of Americans are coming to view the government as too intrusive and powerful. The poll, conducted Sept. 13-16, shows that 59 percent of the country believes the government has too much power, compared to 33 percent who think it has the right amount. In 2002, only 39 percent believed the government was too powerful while 52 percent said it wielded the right amount of power.

A growing majority, 58 percent, believe the government is trying to do too many things that should be left up to individuals. Only 36 percent believe government should do more. Two more things the poll revealed: 49 percent believe there is too much government regulation, 27 percent believe there is too little government regulation and 21 percent believe we currently have the right amount; and 46 percent believe the government poses an immediate threat to the freedoms of ordinary citizens and 51 percent believe it does not. However, that 46 percent number is up from 30 percent in 2003.

These numbers are reflected in the rise in the Tea Party movement.

But, according to the administration of President Barack Obama, it’s not a concern about an ever-growing government that’s behind the growth of the Tea Party and decline in the popularity of incumbent politicians — particularly Democrats and Republicans in Name Only (RINOs). No, the administration just thinks the electorate is dumb… and it’s saying so.

Democrats aren’t running on the administration’s accomplishments like healthcare and financial-regulatory overhaul and the stimulus because “it’s just too hard to explain,” Vice President Joe Biden told Bloomberg News.

“The 24-hour news cycle is just so lightning fast and the attention span I think is so short that sometimes it’s difficult to keep everybody focused on the long term,” Obama told a crowd at George Washington University.

The truth is that explaining how a healthcare bill that costs more, benefits fewer and eliminates choices is a good bill is difficult. Explaining how trillion dollar bailouts for big banks and Wall Street are beneficial while Americans see their way of life destroyed is difficult. Biden is correct on that count.

It’s a difficult sell because Americans are smart and they’ve seen through the charade. But I would be surprised if the electorate’s attention span is so short — as Obama believes — that it’s going to forget by Nov. 2 what the elected elites have done these last 20-plus months. The elites just wish it were so.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Eric Bischoff

    There’s an old saying. You better be careful what you wish for, you just may get it.

    What do you expect? The country fed up with years of pandering to the rich, waging wars and running the economy into the ground voted for change and elected a Democrat president, House and Senate . Why do think that happened? Have you all developed amnesia?

    This fiasco was a long time in the making. I am sorry if some of you just woke up but this was a long time in the making. It just so happens that we’ve reached the perfect storm. Credit cards maxed, no equity in our homes, no savings and then the banks screw up by gambling on steroids with money they never had. Why? Because deregulation let them do it and they are greedy bastards. Money is the real god in america.

    But unfortunately instead of being good sports and saying alright you won! we’ll try your way for a while, the very crowd that brought us to the brink of disaster does everything in it’s power to insure that things get even worse so that the new guys look bad and then they can get back in. Thanks guys!

    So we end up with toothless convoluted bills that just maintain the status quo. And this crowd which never takes responsibility for any wrong doing continues to blame everything on the current administration. Granted dems could have fought harder that is if they had any courage. We should have tried a public option, but they have no guts and they know full well that it’s not up to the public if they keep their job it’s directly related to how much money corporation will throw into advertising or should we call it lies and propaganda. The supreme court has now made sure of that.

    Come to think of it maybe the supreme court is what needs fixing. They help steal elections and now they have made corporations into super humans that can spend as much as they want on elections. And you can’t even control where the money comes from.

    We did not get any meaningful change yet and we probably won’t. The pendulum will swing back towards the other side and the rich will get richer, the poor will definitely get poorer and the middle class will suffer even more. We may even get deeper into wars.

    I am not a fan of the Democrats but I can’t stand most Republicans and I am sorry but the Tea Party brings new meaning to mean and stupid politicians with big money behind them.

    Oh well. I guess you haven’t suffered enough yet.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Eric, your right! The zombies and parasites havent had it tough enough yet.

    • DaveH

      Eric,
      You really need to do some reading. Start with Thomas Sowell’s book “The Housing Boom and Bust”. The Government led by your Democrats coerced the banks to lend to unqualified lenders. Another problem was the accomodative stance of the Federal Reserve. When Ron Paul tryed to get a bill passed to audit the Fed, North Carolina Democrat Mel Watt trashed it:
      http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/congress/2216-subcommittee-guts-ron-pauls-bill-to-audit-the-fed

      • DaveH

        The problem was certainly not the so-called deregulation. As long as Big Government exists, there will be regulations:
        http://reason.org/news/printer/the-myth-of-financial-deregula

      • Bitter Libertarian

        ANY Politician who isnt OPPOSED to the existance of the FED reserve is a worthless POS Traitor GUILTY of TREASON. Its THAT simple.

      • Eric Bischoff

        DaveH
        They are not my Democrats. I think I’ve outlined my belief through this site many times. I call them RepubliCrats because they are 2 sides of the same coin.

        You know squat about my need to do some reading. According to my wife the house is about to collapse under the weight of books and periodicals.

        And if you still believe that deregulation had nothing to do with this financial debacle then you are reading the wrong books or maybe you are not comprehending what you are reading. I recommend Nomi Prins, David C. Korten, Naomi Klein, Thom Hartmann, Martin Weiss, Richard Mayberry.

        And for a real eye opener, read Catherine Austin Fitts’ blog post Financial Coup D’Etat.

      • DaveH

        Did you even read the link I provided, Eric? With an unbiased brain? I’ve been reading economic publications my entire 40 years of adulthood. And with an open mind. I’ve never been afraid to think outside the box, hence my Libertarianism. Don’t confuse hopes and dreams with reality, Eric. Have you perused the link I provided to the ranking of the countries by their economice freedom (less regulation)? Maybe you are reading the wrong publications, Eric. After all, the economic policies you apparently advocate have failed throughout the world. Can you not learn from the experience of others?
        All the reading in the world will do no good if you can’t learn from your own and others’ experience.
        This is where well-meaning but misguided people like yourself are leading this country:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs&feature=PlayList&p=FBD7EFAE8BE4F748&index=0&playnext=1

      • DaveH

        And as far as your statement “reading the wrong books or maybe you are not comprehending what you are reading”. I have 7 years of college under my belt and graduated with honors in two different degrees. I think I can comprehend what I read, you undeservedly arrogant jerk.
        Perhaps you could explain to me how bureaucratic tampering with business practices (regulations), which costs our economy not only the salaries of the meddlers, but also the salaries of the people the businesses must hire to comply, save our economy money? I’m not talking about enforcing fraud, which has always been against the law and adjucated in courts of law. I’m talking about Government intrusion into honest business practices.
        If you can’t think for yourself, and seek banks or other firms that operate to your liking, don’t saddle my choices with your Big Government meddling.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Go get em’ DaveH!!!!! I love it!!!

      • Eric Bischoff

        DaveH I’ll agree with you on the Fed, they have to go.

  • Anthony

    HERE’S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THE MIS-INFORMED …. cuz they wanna be.

    ======================

    CLARENCE SWINNEY says:
    October 15, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Sorry Bob (Livingston?) Your ceation ?”Big Government” by Reagan + Bush is not our imminent threat to Democracy.

    THIS, if read properly, states that Reagan and/or Bush… is not the culprit in our current financial excrement situation. SC? You got another take?

    It Is Your creation of WSA–Wall Street Of America

    Your pals created the Great Redistribution of Income and Wealth to 1% or 1.2 millionultra rich. Yes Bob! You. You. You.

    Let 1% go from 20% Total Fianancial Wealth in 1980 to 43% in 2009.
    From Ten percent of Total Income to 24% in 2009

    HOW, it is, that Bob Livingston… might be the real criminal here for what WALL STREET decides to implement… is beyond me. Mr. Livingston has (I am sure) practically NO leverage with the Wall Street types – he only advises where you can sneak in and enhance YOUR own wealth satndard – and he aligns himself with StansberryReserach.com in the process … therefore, it’s all good in my book.

    Yes Bob, You created a Third World called Wall Street Of America formerly United States Of America.

    You, Bob, increased spending by 80% and Debt by 170% from 1980 to 1989. Yes! You Bob increased spending and debt each by 100% from 2000-2009

    Yes! You, created 99,000 net new jobs in 20 years just enough to cover new entries into the work force.

    I still don’t see where he’s defining which BOB he might be speaking to… Bob Livingston doesn’t work in Government, nor on Wall Street, and I would offer he might be highly escorted if her were to knock on the door of the Federal Reserve even if only for a small tour.

    Yes! It was not Clinton or Carter who in 12 years created 222,000 per month.

    Yes! It was you who freed banks where large investment Gamblers could own all our bank assets for their Gambling Empire.

    Yes! It was you who modernized financial empire to allow unrestricted Gambling in your new CASINO DERIVATIVE OF AMERICA.

    AGAIN – no one aligned/working for Personal-Liberty.com or the empire(?) of Bob Livingston.. would/could ever have the clouot it might take to alter what teh Bilderbergers (can you say George Soros?) have been up to since the late 1970′s under Jimmy Carter.

    [Hey, ever notice they never call President Carter by his Christian name of JAMES.....LOL]

    You should constantly go back and review documentaries online or buy those DVDs which discuss THE MONEY MASTERS and THE FEDERAL RESERVE …. aka: The Creature from Jekyll Island.

    If it’s beneath you… then, most certainly, ..live life on your knees!

    • JC

      Good stuff Anthony.
      Idiotic isn’t it? :)

  • Anthony

    @ Palin12 -

    NPR had a great critique, this morning, about the Nevada race…

    REID will lose unless the Bankers get in there and implement Voting Booth rigging for the desired results. Count on it.

  • Palin12

    I enjoyed the debate last night between Angle and Reid. She was the aggressor from the very beginning. At one point she told Harry to “man up and realize Social Security is in deep trouble and needs to be fixed.” She also pointed out that while she lives in a middle-class neighborhood in Reno, Harry lives at the Ritz-Carlton in Washington. Another time she recalled Ronald Reagan by starting off a rebuttal with “there you go again”…Early voting starts tomorrow in Nevada. You can count on my vote Sharron.

    • Eric Bischoff

      That’s it, that’s the best you can choose! Now that’s sad.

      • JeffH

        Eric Bischoff, is that the best YOU can do? Dirty Harry looked more like a senile old man with alzheimers than a lifelong politician…then agan maybe they’re one in the same. If he couldn’t stumble and studder he might have been abel to say something other than “extremist” every other sentance.

      • Palin12

        JeffH
        Did you see when the moderator asked Dirty Harry to give his closing remarks Harry fumbled with his papers for about 30 seconds and then said “let me find my papers”?? Not very well prepared! Did they show this debate in California?

      • JeffH

        I heard quite a bit of it today on the local 580 KMJ…Angle was very well prepared and Dingy Harry, just like Barbara Boxer did, was totally unprepared and winged it on their liberal talking points, totally avoiding the major issues and trying to ride the fact that they’ve been voted in for so long “so they must be doing something right”. A total joke.

      • Palin12

        JeffH
        You can watch Harry fumbling for his papers here. Cut to the chase at 9:00 minute mark:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_505404&v=40uHZgPS_bA

      • http://?? Joe H.

        JeffH,
        You mean he’s NOT a senile old man with alzheimers???? Could have fooled me!!! Of course you left out one part. He’s a GREEDY old man with alzheimers!!!

      • JeffH

        I love it! LOL!

      • Eric Bischoff

        I don’t like Harry Reid, never have but replacing him with Sharon Angle now there’s a brilliant move!

      • http://naver sook young

        Do you have something against a woman taking his job from him? Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai
        Vote November 2!

      • Craig

        Anything is better than a scumbag dumbocrat.

      • Palin12

        Eric Bischoff
        yes that is the best I can do, since Sarah Palin is not running for Nevada Senator :-)

    • Mick

      Palin12 says:
      October 15, 2010 at 3:13 pm
      I enjoyed the debate last night between Angle and Reid. She was the aggressor from the very beginning. At one point she told Harry to “man up and realize Social Security is in deep trouble and needs to be fixed.” She also pointed out that while she lives in a middle-class neighborhood in Reno, Harry lives at the Ritz-Carlton in Washington. Another time she recalled Ronald Reagan by starting off a rebuttal with “there you go again”…Early voting starts tomorrow in Nevada. You can count on my vote Sharron.

      &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
      Palin12…She can count on my vote as well.
      Being from NV I definitely want to see REID gone…….

      • JeffH

        Good for you Mick…I can’t vote for Angle but I sure can offer my support…not only for Angle but O’Donnel and several others. I hope you guys can do the same for…Whitman vs Jerry Brown, Carly Fiorina vs Boxer and John Dennis who is running for Pelosi’s seat in SF.

      • Palin12

        Jerry Brown, what a joke. I remember when he came on TV and pleaded to spare the life of serial killer William Bonin, who was convicted of a minimum of 15 murders and was duly executed.

      • Palin12

        …and with the recent celebration of John Lennon’s 70th birthday, I can’t help but wish that his killer, Mark David Chapman, would also receive the ultimate punishment.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        JeffH,
        I can’t vote for her but My wife and I sent her some money for her campaign as we would have supported anyone or anyTHING against dingy Harry!!

      • Christin

        Mick,
        I would have loved to see that debate… sorry I missed it.

        I do not reside in NV so I can’t vote progressive REID OUT, but we sent in money to support Sharron Angle. Hope and Pray she wins Nov. 2nd.

        Thanks for the up-date. All the best to you Nevadians.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    The Single Most Bipartisian issue that every political party, or group could rally on (except the commies) is to Dissolve the Fed and restore Constitutional Money system. Shame everyones emotional issues get in the way.

    • BigBadJohn

      So do you blame Nixon for taking us off of the gold standard? It was his idea to print our way out of debt.

      • JeffH

        Who cares about Nixon…we’re here in the 21st century now, Nixon is old news. Dis the Fed and get on with it.

  • THINK ABOUT

    Why should we be concerned with polls, we should be more concerned with possible solutions which are never offered. Money is spent on frivolous bashing the other canidates just so they can cover for lack of any planning. It is always easy to say no and takes thought and effort to come up with any plan to cut spending. It is always cut somewhere else but not in my back yard. We should have learned something from the rescue of the miners in Chile, they worked together and got the job done. You can’t change what you do not accept. Calling names sure does not fix any problems. Some things in life as the USA knows it has to have regulations, if you want to live where no modern conviences are available then accept the road of no and nothing.

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    Only 58% believe government is too intrusive and powerful?? Of course, that’s better than another Gallup poll I just read on CNSnews (Wednesday, 10/13/2010), in which only 46% say the government threatens our rights and freedoms. I sometimes wonder if Gallup is oversampling Democraps?? In that poll 2 days ago, several issues were raised. It sounded rather biased to me. I.e., only 15% worry about the threat to our 1st Amendment?? Only 6% worry about our freedom of religion?? WAKE UP!! Are they oblivious to the leftwing democraps’ attempts to shut down talk radio, or the ‘hate crime laws’ which turn the government into the thought police and could prosecute clergyman from preaching the Bible?? Only 11% worry about the health/hell care law?? Most polls show an overwhelming majority of Americans oppose it!! And only 2% are worried about too much government spending??!! GOOD GRIEF!! My only guess is that maybe that poll was taken among drones, leeches and losers. They obviously don’t care about spending, as long as the spending is a handout to them from the government. Nor do they care about all the other issues, in which we see this current democrap regime destroying America!!

    • Joyce from Loris

      Unbelievable, isn’t it? 58 million people are on SS or SSDI, 60 million are on welfare. Well, there is only 320 million in America! Almost half are on some form of government assistance, at the tax payers expense. Problem is, there are not enough tax payers anymore to support all the deadbeat welfare people, and the SSDI people getting checks because they have ADHD, or are on crack or alcoholics or obese. It is madness! That is why we have such a huge deficient in this country. They are taxing the working class people to death, to pay those who do not or will not work. Every day, the welfare numbers grow because of people losing jobs, yet in WASHINGTON DC alone, the employment rate for hispanics has INCREASED 8.5%. Imagine that.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        I could try to focus on a Solution, but the reality is that we are facing the problem you mention above in the very, very near future.
        The effects of this unemployment and parasitic govt leeches is going to overwhelm us before any decent political solution presents itself!

        So I asked yesterday…
        How are you going to feed them?
        Where are they all going to live?
        Who is going to pay the bill?
        Higher taxes?
        Print more Money?
        High inflation?
        Food Riots?
        Civil unrest?
        Revolt?
        Martial law?

        Its not pretty but its reality…thats ALLOT of people to feed & support…either that or WWIII!

      • BigBadJohn

        Links for your numbers please. Doing some research the numbers I saw for welfare ranged from 2 million to 4 million – way less than the 60 million you claim.

        As for SS how many of those people paid in to it all of their working lives? If you paid into it do you think you deserve to draw out of it?

    • Karolyn

      Who on earth is trying to shut down talk radio? That’s ridiculous. As long as a preacher preaches what the Bible says, there is no reason for him to be arrested. It is when a preacher uses his own interpretation of the Bible to incite violence that he should be prosecuted. Just because a lot of people who don’t think like you do are not as vociferous as you doesn’t mean they don’t exist. You exist in your own culture. When you venture outside your culture, you can see that there are a lot more people than you think out there that don’t have the same feelings you do.

      • JeffH

        FCC Regulation
        The standard playbook for revolutionaries is to seize all the television and radio stations first, and announce the rebels are the new government. The Left has already done this in America. Except for a couple of holdouts — conservative talk radio and Christian broadcasts.

        Conservative talk radio generates strong ratings and is thus a lucrative venue for certain stations to carry. The problem is, the Democrats don’t like conservative talk radio. So, they seek to use their power to silence this venue.

        How do they do that?

        The Senate immediately followed its approval of Sen. Jim DeMint’s amendment prohibiting the Fairness Doctrine by approving an amendment from Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) which provided for the FCC to “encourage and promote diversity in communications media ownership and to ensure that broadcast station licenses are used in the public interest.”

        With legislation like the “Fairness Doctrine” and/or “localization”. With “localization” a handful of appointed government beaurocrats decide what’s in the best interest of the people in terms of their radio programming. Got that? A couple of FCC lackeys get to decide what radio stations are allowed to play on the air. Non-compliance will be met with fines, forced programming and a revoke of broadcasting liscenses – Obama wants to have the liscences be good for only 2 years, as opposed to the 8 years that they are currently good for.

        The main frontal attack is not going to come through Congress, where talk radio audiences and Christian grassroots can be mobilized to stop it. It is going to come through regulations issued by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), which already has all the legal authority it needs.
        http://spectator.org/archives/2009/04/22/will-obama-seize-the-radio-sta

        It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what Obama really is — a cigar store Indian for the ruling elite and the bankers. Obama is a front man who does the bidding for our globalist rulers. He is the public relations spokesman for international banks and transnational corporations. Obama’s job is to shoot hoops and look confident and come off as if he is in control while the real controllers pull the strings from behind the curtain.

      • Vigilant

        JeffH:

        It’s amazing that there are people out there who are still unaware of the “Fairness Doctrine.” This idea is not new, has been the pet project of Dems. for years, but now they’re feeling their muscle with Obama in office.

        A favorite approach of this president is to utilize the regulatory power of agencies such as FCC and EPA to circumvent the legislative process (and therefore the Constitution itself) to get things done by fiat. Executive orders and making appointments during Congressional recesses to bypass “advice and consent” have been used by other presidents, but never to the extent done by this would-be dictator as a routine method of getting things done.

        To say that leftists cannot see their hypocrisy in always championing free speech and then doing their best to stifle it when it doesn’t suit their nefarious purposes, is incorrect. I believe they know full well what they are doing in their “end justifies the means” mentality, and in their heart of hearts, don’t give a damn about free speech except when it serves their purpose.

      • JeffH

        Vigilant, any way they can they will usurp the Constitution.

      • Eric Bischoff

        What’s amazing to me JeffH is how close minded you are but then again maybe that explains why you continue to have everything backwards or should I say ass backwards.

      • JeffH

        Eric, I’m not closed minded at all unless you think wanting the government to control your every move in life is a good thing, then yes, I’ll take my closed mindedness over being a Marxist, socialist or communist loving liberal any day of the week. As for being “bass ackwards”, perhaps you should lift your head above your knees after you’ve taken a close look in the mirror.

      • Angel Wannabe

        kAROLYN, instead of asking who this? and what that?___Why don’t you try and google some of this stuff, you wish to learn and read it, on your own, instead of blindly grappling at the air looking for answers? It’s what the rest of us do!!!

  • DaWitchesBroom

    Nov 2 is not going to be a cake walk. Will be interesting to see. Until more people start working harder in the US, the US is in trouble no matter who is in charge.

    The overall population determines the vitality of the nation unless the financial sector collaspes which has not happened. There is just not enough work being done.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      The Financial Sector could literally vanish and it matters not. Return the US to our Constitutional Money system and we’d be just fine.

    • DaveH

      That is always true, Broom. But the question is “what motivates people to work harder?”. It certainly isn’t thieving Democrats who want to take their money as fast as they earn it. If Big Government motivated people to work harder the countries on the bottom of this list would be very prosperous:
      http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx

  • Soldier

    wishing it were so did nothing. Only action matters.

  • BigBadJohn

    The results of polls are always determined by who participates in the poll.

    Every time you search the WEB, buy a magazine, use your member card at any store, sign up for email list, or join a blog such as this one, your name goes on a list.

    By selecting which list to use, pollsters can influence the outcome of the poll.

    Time, place and who actually takes the time to take a poll, instead of hanging up, also affects the outcome.

    So yes the result of any poll is determined by who does the poll.
    Take the results of ALL polls with a grain of salt.

  • Vigilant

    Not all pollsters are dishonest. Scott Rasmussen and Gallup, for example, have very respectable reputations for integrity. And their accuracy of prediction is very high.

  • Elissa

    One of the few things I remember from my “Probabilities and Statistics” class is my instructor’s voice intoning “Always look to see who financed the study”. The point was that if you were conducting a study it would be better for you financially to show results which were favorable to whomever paid for the study. As examples, he trotted out some of the tobacco studies which said tobacco was harmless and even beneficial in some cases. Of course, they were commissioned by the tobacco industry!

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Follow the Money….

      • TIME

        Follow the ones who lust POWER, The money is no big deal, they own it all.

  • Joyce from Loris

    I know sometimes that the polls show numbers that we can’t hardly believe, but we all have to remember one important thing. WE THE PEOPLE have changed. So many people from different countries, different cultures have moved to America. THEY are changing the fabric, day by day. The elites of this country have always touted, “We are the nation of immigrants”. Well, welcome to America, home of the muslims, the mexicans, the asians, etc. The white America is disappearing. Blacks are multiplying at a rate of 3 to 1 white. Mexicans are multiplying at a rate of 5 to 1 white. Muslims are multiplying at a rate of 8 to 1 white. White girls are coupling with black boys, mexican boys and asian boys, making little brown children. That is their goal, to BROWN AMERICA. Us white people will be eliminated. The government has also been totally competent in trying to make us white people feel bad, feel guilty about being WHITE. It’s madness. I am proud to be white, I am proud that my children are white, and my grandchildren are white. But I fear that my grandchildren will be the slave of some other nationality by the time they reach adulthood IF WE DON’T CHANGE THINGS NOW. All people want equality, but it just never works. You can’t have total equality in this world. You will always have differences. You will always have the “Haves and the have nots”. There will always be someone somewhere that is different.

    • Karolyn

      Joyce – I never took you for a KKK member! WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS and have the right to mix and mingle. Who the F cares? God loves us all no matter what color our skin is. Do you think God cares what color anybody marries? The biggest surprise to me when I moved from NJ to SC was the amount of interracial marriage and cohabitation I saw. It is heartening to see redneck grandparents loving their mixed-race grandkids. Good for them! They have gone against the southern mindset and that of so many others.

      • libertytrain

        You apparently haven’t come to understand the true Southern mindset – they are far more advanced in acceptance of these things than any Northerner I ever knew.

      • JeffH

        Karolyn, you have no right to use your “racially motivted” term REDNECK! You’re as much a hypocrite as Joyce whom you accuse of being a KKK member. No difference at all.

      • libertytrain

        I’ll second that – I get a giggle each time someone on the left throws about those words and calls us racist.

      • Karolyn

        It’s actually a term of endearment the way I use it.

      • Karolyn

        Hey, I’m good friends with some of them rednecks; and THEY sure don’t mind me calling them that! It’s what they call themselves!

      • Joyce from Loris

        You are NO friend of rednecks. They would have NOTHING to do with the likes of you.

      • Karolyn

        Also – You can call me a Polack any time you want. I could care less (just like the rednecks could care less). I’m not as PC as you might think. I just can’t abide people bashing interracial marriage or cohabitation, thus my post.

      • Joyce from Loris

        I just can’t abide in your bashing people for their opinions, either. You have yours, I have mine. Just because you do not agree with me, does not make me wrong.

      • JeffH

        Karolyn, explain it any way you want to…you got busted plain and simple…purley a hypocrit!

      • Joyce from Loris

        Karolyn, you are such an idiot. The people in SC (yes, I am one) really wish that you would move back to NJ because of idiotic statements like you just made. No, I am not a KKK member. They do not exist, stupid. My opinions are just that… MY opinions. I do think that it is a disservice to the children of these relationships. You don’t??? That’s fine, I could care less. But I am proud to be white, and I long concluded, from your past post, that you on food stamps, and taking other hand outs from the government. I know you have a Pell Grant, another form of handouts. So, here is one to really knock your socks off. I believe that people who are incapable of taking care of themselves should not be allowed to vote!! So, welfare witch, how do you like those apples?? Get a job. Contribute SOMETHING besides your ability to take from others what they work HARD for everyday.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Joyce,
        Please do not lie and say the KKK doesn’t exhist! We had them come around my mostly white neighborhood dropping off pamphlets about three years ago and they demonstrated in the town square of Painesville Ohio about five years ago. Cost the county almost half a million in security costs. They wanted to come back again and the county told them if they wanted to come back,they would have to pay the costs that the county incurred or they would not be allowed to return. we didn’t see the cowards again! I forgot to add, the cowards came thorugh my neighborhood in the middle of the night!! Couldn’t stand up to the light of day!!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Karolyn, Tp copy your statement> “It’s heartening to see REDNECK Grandparents lovingly taking care of they’re racially mixed Grandchildren??”__I must ask you, and Just what choice did they’re children, who “produced racially mixed children”, give the Grandparents?__It’s certainly NOT the Grandchildrens fault they’re here, and would be absolutely wrong to take their parents, poorly thought out actions, out on the innocent Grandkids. People only think about themselves today, they act first to quench a desire and never thinking about the children who come later, THEY are the ones who are really left to deal with this stuff, not the parents!!

      • Angel Wannabe

        K, BTW, I am an old redneck!–And what IN the HELL DOES THAT FACT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH CARING ABOUT PEOPLE IN GENERAL?

  • http://www,truckerjd@clearnet.com JOHN DESKUS

    DEAR READERS JUST A NOTE FROM MY VIEW WE ALL KNOW HOW IT IS THAAY TELL US ONE THING WHEN THAY ARE TRYING TO GET IN OFFICE. AFTER THAY GET IT WHO -WHO- WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE TRY TO GET A CALL IN TO MOST OF THEM GOOD LUCK AFTER THAY GET YOUR MONEY AND TELL THE NEXT TIME THAY NEED YOUR VOTE AND MONEY ? IS IT ONE PERSON TO BLAME FOR ALL THAT IS WRONE NO? AND IS ONE PERSON GOING TO FIX ALL THAT IS WE NEED DONE NOL, IT TOOK A LONG TIME AND A LOT OF EVENTS TO DAMAGE THE WORLD WE LIVE IN AND IT WILL TAKE A LOT OF WORK FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE OVER A LONG TIME TO GET IT GOING THE WAY WE ALL NEED IT TO THE USA AND ALL OF US WILL NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB FROM NOW ON THANK TO ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING AND HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT THAY CAN TO REPAIR AND KEEP THE WORLD RUNING AS GOOD AS IT IS AND HOPE THAT THE NEXT PAGE IN THIS BOOK OF LIFE AND ALL THE PLAYERS BIG ONES AND THE SMALL ONE THAT IS ALL OFF US IN SOME WAY CAN KEEP US SAFE AND KEEP FOOD ON TABLES AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS WE NEED TO MOVE ON IN THIS LIFE AND FOR THE KIDS THAT WILL GROW UP AND TAKE OVER, SO PLEASE LETS DO WHAT WE CAN TO HELP[ NO AND LETS TEACH THE NEXT GROUP WHAT NOT TO DO WE CAN LEARN FROM THE BAD THINGS IN PAST AND STOP TRYING TO FIND SOME ONE TO TAKE THE FALL FOR WHAT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST. LET THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT ARE TRYING NOW TO FIX THE COUNTRY DO WHAT THAY CAN AND BY THE TIME THE NEXT GROUP IS READY TO MOVE UP AND TAKE OVER WE CAN HOPE THAT THE PEOPLE AND GOVERMENT THAT IS MADE UP WITH US THE PEOPLE OF THE USA WILL HAVE LEARNED WHAT NOT TO DO AND WHAT TO DO MY BEST WISHES TO ALL OF US PLEASE LETS STOP BLAMING AND START THANKING FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD OVER ALL WE HAVE UPS AND DOWNS IN LIFE ,LETS TRY FOR MORE OF THE GOOD AND STOP THE BAD WHAT EVER YOUR REASON IS AND YOU FEEL LIKE IT IS WORTH IT AND IT IS HELPING OUT IN THE BIG PICTURE .I THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO MAKE IT A BETTER PLACE FOR US NOWS AND FOR THE NEXT PERSON THAT WILL TAKE OWR PLACE.

  • Donald Butler

    Polls? A “snapshot” in time. The republicans will win the house and God willing the senate. Problem: RINO’S, i.e., McCain and his ilk, based on their previous behavior simply will not have the backbone necessary to get the job done! First priority? Repeal Obamacare! Secondly! Impeach him and his commie czars! Let’s hope they will! Failing to do so they will have betrayed the clear-thinking American people (led by the teaparty!)who have placed the future of this country in their hands! A huge responsibilty! Are they up to the job? Who knows? Who can say? Let’s keep their feet to the fire! America’s future hangs in the balance. We must stop the progressives (commies!) in their tracks, before they destroy everything previous generations have worked so hard for, the wars fought and won! We must not allow all the blood, sweat & tears spent building our nation to be destroyed by one man & his commie cronies attempts to spend us into oblivion! Any economist worth his salt will tell you when the government spends more than 40% of the GDP, the free market system can no longer endure! We are there now! We are surviving as a free people under what is left of a free enterprise system burdened down with debt to the tune of 100 trillion dollars to be passed on to future generations! Our government is now being run into the ground by Obama & his commie czars! Should you doubt this, do the research! Wake up America! God bless America..again, should be the prayer of every American as we enter the single most important mid-term election in this nations history! Will Republicans man-up to the challange awaiting them? Or will they, as many fear, wilt as shrinking violets! We all know of the few Jim DeMints’ that will, and the all too many McCain’s (RINO’S) that will betray the public trust and will not!

    We’ll see! Won’t We?

    Donald Butler

    Don Butler

    • Bitter Libertarian

      We need to OUST the Shadow Corporate Govt as well my Friend!

      • Conservative at Birth

        Audit the Fed

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Congress doesnt have to repeal Health care..Just a Full blown audit of the Fed, then legislation to repeal the 16th amendment, the IRS and all the RATS will leave their sinking ship.

      • TIME

        BL, Strong points dude!

      • JC

        Actually Congress DOES have to repeal the Kenyan health care act…it gives government WAY too much control over everything we do.
        Plus everything else you suggest.

      • http://naver sook young

        I was looking in my books and came across what you are saying. I agree with what you say libertytrain, but can’t they just decide not to give money to it? If there is no money, then there is no problem right? I guess I could tell the president, no money no honey? Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai
        DON’T TREAD ON ME!

        P.S. My husband has been admitted into the hospital and is very sick, so he’ll be unable to post for awile. I’m currently posting from my laptop in his room. I hope he gets well soon. I would like us to vote together next month.

      • JC

        Prayer for Samurai…stay strong, get well.

      • http://naver sook young

        Sorry, I meant bitter libertarian.

      • http://naver sook young

        Thank you JC. I’m sure my husband will appreciate the thought. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

      • Kate8

        sook young, I’m so sorry to learn that samurai is ill.

        He will be in my prayers, as well.

        Godspeed.

      • JeffH

        sook young, please let brother samurai know our hearts and prayer are with him…he’s a fellow freedom fighter.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Sook Young,
        My prayers are added as well!!! give my best to your freedom fighter. In honor of him, For God And Country!!!

      • http://naver sook young

        Thank you all for those kind words. He has a very severe case of what we call 폐렴 or pneumonia. I’ve been watching over him since Friday. Since I have many friends and co-workers at this hospital, I know he is in good hands. I also pray over him everyday. I also want to help out in this fight for America. As my husband would say: “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!”

      • Claire

        sook young–I just read your post. I pray for a speedy recovery and tell him to take care of himself.

      • Christin

        sook,
        I will pray that our Lord, The Great Physician, will put his healing hands on Samurai that he would be well and back to great health very soon and that you, sook, will remain healthy and strong.
        God Bless you both.

      • http://naver sook young

        Thank you Claire! I see my husband has lots of support here also. Thank you all very much!

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai
        Vote November 2!

      • http://naver sook young

        Thank you Christin!

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai
        Vote November 2!

      • Angel Wannabe

        cab, JFK tried to get rid of the federal reserve, withn 6 months he was dead__Co-incidence?

      • TIME

        Angel,
        JFK, said in one of his speaches 48 hours before he went to Texas, he was going to expose to the American people who really was running the country. Thats what got him.
        His brother Bobby said he was going to expose what happened to his brother and open JFK’s sealed file to expose the truth.

      • JeffH

        …Abe Lincoln fully resisted borrowing any “European” money and a debt to the Rothschild’s Banks to finance the Civil War and he also ended up dead.

      • spike

        JC AND ANGEL;
        Can we repeal this thing? Or will Obama veto it?????

      • Angel Wannabe

        Your right Right Jeff and Time!!!__ I agree the fed reserve gotta go, the question is, AGAIN, who’ll take the risk?___
        ____________________________________________________

        SPIKE__if the repubs take majority over the House and Senate, they’d had better know, the people are no longer taking a back seat to them! We aren’t going to give them the reigns only to have them hang us “we the people anymore!”
        We’re gonna, watch and holdem accountable!__As far as Obama vetoing?__Hell yes, he’s gonna veto! Health care reform is his baby, in no way is he gonna let ANYONE adopt it out either!!___I the think HCR is absolutely unconstitutional, I think the courts do too, or they wouldn’t allow to move ahead with the procedure, UNLESS it’s a ploy, to get the States hopes up, only to dump them on they’re head___Time will tell Spike!!!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Time_ Jeffh___My last post strangly disappeared__Hmm?
        But any at rate I fully agree!

        SPIKE as far Obama vetoing a repeal of HCR, if infact it can be repealed?__Hell yes he’s gonna veto it, HCR is his baby and he’s not likely to to adopt it out!___It is however encouraging, that the courts are allowing it to go forth, but we have to remain cautious, it may be a ploy, to drop us on our heads later on! The repubs have to know, that if we hand them the reigns (both houses) in November, and they try to hang we the people with the reigns, we will hold them to accountability!__We’ve got to stay alert!!

      • Kate8

        Angel-, JeffH, libertytrain, Vicki, Christin and the rest of the patriots, maybe this will help you feel a bit better:

        VERIFIED BY SNOPES . . . .

        OBama May Be In Deep Trouble…

        Chief Justice John Roberts, U.S. Supreme Court.
        According to sources who watch the inner workings of the federal government,
        a smackdown of Barack Obama by the U.S. Supreme Court may be inevitable.
        Ever since Obama assumed the office of President, critics have hammered him on a number of Constitutional issues.
        Critics have complained that much, if not all of Obama’s major initiatives run headlong into Constitutional roadblocks on the power of the federal government.
        Obama certainly did not help himself in the eyes of the Court when he used the venue of the State of the Union address early in the year to publicly flog the Court over its ruling that the First Amendment grants the right to various organizations to run political ads during the time of an election.
        The tongue-lashing clearly did not sit well with the Court, as demonstrated by Justice Sam Alito, who publicly shook his head and stated under his breath, ‘That’s not true,’when Obama told a flat-out lie concerning the Court’s ruling.
        As it has turned out, this was a watershed moment in the relationship between the executive and the judicial branches of the federal government. Obama publicly declared war on the court, even as he blatantly continued to propose legislation that flies in the face of every known Constitutional principle upon which this nation has stood for over 200 years.
        Obama has even identified Chief Justice John Roberts as his number one enemy, that is, apart from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and so on.
        And it is no accident that the one swing-vote on the court, Justice Anthony Kennedy, stated recently that he has no intention of retiring until ‘Obama is gone.’
        Apparently, the Court has had enough.
        The Roberts Court has signaled, in a very subtle manner, of course, that it intends to address the issues about which Obama critics have been screaming to high heaven.
        A ruling against Obama on any one of these important issues could potentially cripple the Administration.
        Such a thing would be long overdue.
        First, there is ObamaCare, which violates the Constitutional principle barring the federal government from forcing citizens to purchase something.
        And no, this is not the same thing as states requiring drivers to purchase car insurance, as some of the intellectually-impaired claim.
        The Constitution limits FEDERAL government, not state governments, from such things, and further, not everyone has to drive, and thus, a citizen could opt not to purchase car insurance by simply deciding not to drive a vehicle.
        In the ObamaCare world, however, no citizen can ‘opt out.’
        Second, sources state that the Roberts court has quietly accepted information concerning discrepancies in Obama’s history that raise serious questions about his eligibility for the office of President.
        The charge goes far beyond the birth certificate issue. This information involves possible fraudulent use of a Social Security number in Connecticut, while Obama was a high school student in Hawaii.
        And that is only the tip of the iceberg.
        Third, several cases involving possible criminal activity, conflicts of interest, and pay-for-play cronyism could potentially land many Administration officials, if not Obama himself, in hot water with the Court.
        Frankly, in the years this writer has observed politics, nothing comes close to comparing with the rampant corruption of this Administration, not even during the Nixon years.
        Nixon and the Watergate conspirators look like choirboys compared to the jokers that populate this Administration.
        In addition, the Court will eventually be forced to rule on the dreadful decision of the Obama DOJ suing the state of Arizona.
        That, too, could send the Obama doctrine of open borders to an early grave, given that the Administration refuses to enforce federal law on illegal aliens.
        And finally, the biggie that could potentially send the entire house of cards tumbling in a free-fall is the latest revelation concerning the Obama-Holder Department of Justice and its refusal to pursue the New Black Panther Party.
        The group was caught on tape committing felonies by attempting to intimidate Caucasianvoters into staying away from the polls.
        A whistle-blower who resigned from the DOJ is now charging Holder with the deliberate refusal to pursue cases against Blacks, particularly those who are involved in radical hate-groups, such as the New Black Panthers, who have been caught on tape calling for the murder of white people and their babies.
        This one is a biggie that could send the entire Administration crumbling–that is, if the Justices have the guts to draw a line in the sand at the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

      • JeffH

        Kate8, I won’t hold my breath just yet.

      • Kate8

        JeffH – I know what you mean. I just try to find any glimmers of hope that some of our leaders will have the courage to do the right thing.

        I’m not holding my breath, either, but I do pray every day that America will get her bearings. We can’t just focus on the bad stuff.

      • Kate8

        Angel, It certainly worked to silence anyone else from attempting to expose them.

        The think is, everyone knows it now. I guess they figure we can’t stop them anymore, so it doesn’t matter. Just look at Ron Paul. I can’t help but wonder if they are using him (knowingly or not) to pull out the opposition.

        Just look at ho many in Congress SUPPORT what the Fed is doing.

      • Vigilant

        Spike,

        As long as Obama is president, Congress does not have the 2/3 majority to override a veto. However, they can take a first step by refusing to fund the program. I don’t believe it takes more than a majority vote to stop the appropriation.

      • Claire

        JFK and Bobby–geez, I wish they had lived. I wish the people behind their killings were caught–I wish I knew the true story and WHO had them killed. The killers are probably all dead by now, hope they are rotting in hell.

      • Christin

        kate8,
        Thanks and Yes, I did get that info already via e-mail.
        Don’t know if there is real strength behind the charges… and don’t know if the brave souls can get this brought forth to court or get the public attention it deserves to open the cases and get to the TRUTH… and prosecute.
        We can PRAY TRUTH prevails and justice is served.

      • BrotherPatriot

        Abolish the Fed & let’s print our own money without interest!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Brother Patriot, but who is willing to take the risk?

      • EltonJ

        If we don’t Abolish the Fed, Israel’s Ishi (husband) WILL! And his method is nasty. So, better us than him. We would be much more merciful in killing our central bank. Where’s Andrew Jackson when you need him?

      • JC

        •Andrew Jackson addressing the US Bankers Association. Long version…

        Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you. And when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves.

        Still going on today.

    • http://n/a Jo Walczak

      Dear Mr.Butler,
      Thank you so much for your wonderful answer!
      I pray for our Country& hope we will be able to
      at least start on the road to sanity.Alas there
      are way too many months left before 2012 and the
      blame game will really start in.
      Sincerely Joanne Walczak

    • Vigilant

      Donald:

      Excellent post. I wish we could impeach him for his cavalier treatment of the Constitution, but the number of votes will not be there in Congress to do it.

      Much like the Clinton impeachment, the Dems would demonstrate their disdain for the Constitution by voting on purely political lines. When a president puts his hand on the Bible and takes a solemn oath to tell the truth, and commits perjury as Clinton did, it shouldn’t matter whether he’s Dem. or Repub., he has committed a Constitutionallly impeachable offense and should be convicted.

      • BrotherPatriot

        As usual, Vigilant…well said & truth!

        If the right thing were to be done…most all our government employees who are supposed to Serve the American people…would be fired. It would cause a great deal of issues…but…America would survive and be the better for it. Constitutional Representatives would then begin to steer this great country back to the course this Nation should be on.

        American Exceptionalism…not normalization that the UN wishes to impose upon us. Some common sense applied would do wonders…

      • Eric Bischoff

        I just love listening to the crowd that is willing to casually impeach a president for lying about a blow job but give a free pass to a president who lied, and started wars. And now you disguise your racism to find any reason to impeach the black guy. It delineates what is wrong with us as a society and why some people in the world are unhappy with us. We are still racists in denial. We like guns and violence and wars and we casually invade and occupy other countries for their resources but we pretend to be easily offended with sex. Which makes no sense because the white male population is the one that is buying all of this viagra. And just look at our mainstream media and the films that we continue to support with our dollars and how raunchy things have gotten. We are pimping out and parading our skimpily clad daughters all over the boob tube and porn use is at all an time high.

        We are hypocrites.

      • JeffH

        Blah, blah, blah, blah blah! Speak for yourself as I’m not part of your generalization of the “WE” you speak of…you racists know who you are…you ,for one, for having the thought in the first place.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        eric,
        how did i know that you would play the race card!!! I haven’t heard ANYONE here wanting to impeach him just for his color!!! I have, however, heard one hell of a lot of them wanting to because of his ignorant way of trampling the constitution!!! So perhaps you should go back to huff po, dailykos, and of course the ever present air America!!! hear the static yet???

      • Eric Bischoff

        Yes but you are all being dishonest.

      • JeffH

        Eric Bischoff, you believe you’re the one that should make that accusation of “dishonest” to Joe or anyone else for that matter? You’re the only one that pulled the race card out so who is really dishonest. I know and Joe H knows but YOU refuse to accept YOUR responsibility for yYOUR own words. RIGHT?

      • libertytrain

        When all else fails or if one doesn’t want to bother with any worthwhile comment – play the race card – —-

      • Vigilant

        EB:

        “I just love listening to the crowd that is willing to casually impeach a president for lying about a blow job but give a free pass to a president who lied, and started wars.”

        As usual, the left is not only in a state of denial, but hopes if they perpetuate the myth about Clinton’s impeachment, somebody will believe it.

        Sonny, we don’t impeach presidents in this country for sexual peccadilloes. They are impeached for “high crimes and misdemeanors,” as stated in the Constitution. It doesn’t matter if the original offense was jaywalking or a parking ticket. I’ll repeat it for your feeble brain:

        When a president puts his hand on the Bible and takes a solemn oath to tell the truth, and commits perjury as Clinton did…he has committed a Constitutionally impeachable offense and should be convicted. What part of that don’t you understand?

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Polls are “ok” but I dont need a poll, I’ve never seen so many Gadsden Flags in CT! Still not enough…too many lazy, sleepy, ignorant zombies sticking to their “party” loyalties…

  • CLARENCE SWINNEY

    Durn Bob. You took my post before I was finished and edited for accuracy and spelling?? Shame!

    Yes! It was you Bob who in 8 years in the Bush created 31,000 net new jobs per month. A wee bit down from Lord Bill 237,000!

    Why Bob did you allow your Ultra Rich to rush imto Derivative Casino and leave investments in stock market assets to build firms snd jobs???

    You know Bob that Casino Derivative has no assets.
    You know Bob that Casino Derivative adds no value to our economy.
    Why Bob why did you allow it? Why Bob?

    Why Bob Why did you do it to 120,000,000 middle class workers who gained 0 zero zero from 1980 to 2009??? Why Bob?

    You Bob have created a Third World Nation.

    Prove me wrong with numbers and facts not rhetoric. Si Senor!
    clarence swinney olduglymeanhonest mad mad mad
    Political Historian Lifeaholics Of America
    Burlington NC

    • Bitter Libertarian

      You focus on the Actors: Bush, Clinton, Carter, etc, and the other “cast of 500+”
      Eliminate the Private bank = The federal reserve..till you realize they are the “directors” and FOCUS on them, America is screwed.

    • s c

      CS, who are you jiving with that cosmic debris? To paraphrase one of your progressive chums, ‘yo haid ain’t connected to yo bod,’ dude. Next time, use English, make sense, take your prozac (or lsd) before you pound on the keyboard and have someone check your diatribe before you make a complete ASS of yourself – again.
      I’ve graded papers written by 7th graders who make more sense than you do. So, did you get as far as the 7th grade?

      • Warrior

        Ha! Poodle bites, Poodle chews it. I may have to listen to some Zappa tonight.

    • Conservative at Birth

      Why are you on this site?

    • JeffH

      JeffH says:
      October 15, 2010 at 2:31 pm
      CLARENCE SWINNEY, once again I’ll point out that CLARENCE SWINNEY makes his living from writing and blogging for the Democratic Underground, blogging in the Huffington Post and In These Times.

      • Jana

        Clarence S sure doesn’t sound like the brightest color in the box.

    • libertytrain

      Why are you blaming Bob for taking the comment before you were done – a little paranoid here perhaps? – he didn’t submit it, you did.

      • JeffH

        libertytrain, I think that CLARENCE SWINNEY is very jealous of Bob Livingston’s Personal Liberty Digest. It is Mr.Livingston who seeks the truth and publishes his own newsletter and website and provides so many of us the avenue to share, agree, discuss, argue and disagree which may very well be exactly what Mr. Swinney wants but hasn’t succeeded in acquiring…he has crossed into “enemy” territory without success. Thus the jealousy.

      • libertytrain

        I think that’s a problem with many of the leftist posters who can’t seem to get enough of this site despite their purported disdain for all of us.

      • JeffH

        libertytrain, eventually they end up moving on to somewhere else with the exception of just a few who drop by from time to time to tell some of us how stupid, ignorant and uneducated we are.

      • libertytrain

        Good point…I still always have to laugh at their attempts to put us in our place—

      • JeffH

        libertytrain, I can just imagine one of the standing in front of their PC, hands on hips, thinking or even saying “I really told them”!

      • libertytrain

        Jeff – I see it as well – I think that’s what makes me giggle more.

    • JC

      How many of those jobs created were government or civil service jobs?

    • spike

      WHO THE HEL* IS BOB!!!!????

      • Karolyn

        A little slow are we? “Bob” as in “Bob” Livingston who wrote the article.

    • Gary

      Clarence, You are nuts.

    • http://naver sook young

      You say you are a historian? I don’t know about you, but you don’t sound anything factual like my husband Samurai. Please tell us the truth and you may get a lot of responses. Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai
      Vote November 2!

  • LiarsMustBeDefeated

    Vote every day using your pocketbook. When you buy gold, for example, you are saying “gold good, dollar bad” When you do less taxable business you are saying “My freedom good, taxes to support the government bad.”

  • The Shrimper

    Right on Angel….. !!!
    Just remember folks the old saying….”the way you can tell when a politician is lying to you??… when his/her lips are moving.”
    It’s not what they say…… it’s all about what they do.
    Can’t wait to hit the flush lever on Nov. 2nd.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Shrimper__WHOOOOSH!!!__LOL

  • Mick

    Mick says:
    October 15, 2010 at 8:41 am
    Al Sieber says:
    October 14, 2010 at 8:50 pm
    Mick, you have to be careful feeding those Burro’s to many carrots because of the sugar content, I’ve seen one drop over dead because of that, a baby I mean. they also like beer too. I live 5 miles out of Oatman, lots of Big Horn sheep on my property, interesting animals.
    *********************************************
    Good morning Al… Never got to answer you yesterday.

    I was made aware that giving carrots to these gorgeous little babies was dangerous to them and although it bothered me not to be able to spoil the little things I restrained myself, I certainly didn’t want to be the cause to bring them harm.
    I always look for Big Horns but they’re hard to spot when you’re driving they blend so well with the background.Got lucky a couple years ago and spotted some on 160 in NV near Mountain spring,They’re certainly more interesting than the bunch of polical crooks we have to deal with now days…….

  • CLARENCE SWINNEY

    Sorry Bob Your ceation ?”Big Government” by Reagan + Bush
    is not our imminent threat to Democracy.

    It Is Your creation of WSA–Wall Street Of America–

    Your pals created the Great Redistribution of Income and Wealth to 1% or 1.2 millionultra rich. Yes Bob! You. You. You.

    Let 1% go from 20% Total Fianancial Wealth in 1980 to 43% in 2009.
    From Ten percent of Total Income to 24% in 2009

    Yes Bob, You created a Third World called Wall Street Of America formerly United States Of America.

    You Bob increased spending by 80% and Debt by 170% from 1980 to 1989.
    Yes! You Bob increased spending and debt each by 100% from 2000-2009

    Yes! You, created 99,000 net new jobs in 20 years just enough to cover new entries into the work force.

    Yes! It was not Clinton or Carter who in 12 years created 222,000 per month.

    Yes! It was you who freed banks where large investment Gamblers could own all our bank assets for their Gambling Empire.

    Yes! It was you who modernized financial empire to allow unrestricted Gambling in your new CASINO DERIVATIVE OF AMERICA.

    • LiarsMustBeDefeated

      You don’t make any sense at all. Why don’t you explain yourself so us idiots can understand it? What are you talking about? I don’t think anyone can take you seriously.

      • libertytrain

        I was trying to make sense of it as well and couldn’t either. Poor guy.

      • Eric Bischoff

        Made perfect sense to me. Maybe that’s because it’s not really news to me.

      • DaveH

        All anybody, who really wants to learn, has to do is go to the congressional websites and see which party votes for the spending bills and regulatory bills. It’s pretty obvious from that which party votes the most for Big Government. I’m no champion for Republicans but they are dwarfed by the Democrats when it comes to building government bigger.
        Link for the House:
        http://clerk.house.gov/

      • DaveH

        Link for the Senate:
        http://www.senate.gov/

      • Angel Wannabe

        At’s what I say DaveH, we have to watch them all now, but it’s STILL comes down to the “lesser of two evils”! With that said, Alot of folks are calling for a third party, that in itself is going to take way more time, than two or three voting cycles to get moving and we’re going to need alot more eyes, if that happens!

      • Kate8

        Check out this painting of Obama by Jon McNaughton. It is a powerful message, and says it all:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KGlBHyVeYU

        A picture is worth a thousand words.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Kate8, Ok, wait til I dry my friggin’ eyes!,__ I’m an artist as well, been in a few magazines and couple of TV stints___ but I’m not so big headed, that I cannot, see such a true and profound talent, such as this man, and this painting___IT’S JUST BREATH TAKING & SAYS IT ALL!___Thanks so much for sharing!!!__I’m sending it along!

      • JeffH

        Kate8, a very powerful message and presentation.

      • Vicki

        Thanks Kate8 That was breathtaking.

      • Palin12

        Excellent kate. Thanks for sharing.

      • Jana

        Wow Kate8,
        I have an email of that painting and you can put the curser on each individual Pres. and it tells a little about him, but hearing the artist was just heart rendering.

    • The Shrimper

      Wow,…
      An Obama/democrat drone…… not that such imbecilic nonsense even warrants a substantive reply, but I just couldn’t resist.
      At least it appears this drone has absorbed the class-envy, hate-the-rich crap and managed to regurgitate it with reasonable accuracy. You got the “blame Bush” part, even managed to pull in Reagan. Impressive.
      Yes, you Bob, have managed to do ALL this as a private citizen.. You are truly a remarkable, almost god-like figure. No wait.. I think we’ve been told the name is Barack.
      Actually , the really sad thing is that this moron has the ability to cancel out at least one vote of substance. But, that is the system.

      • slickporsche

        I think what this idiot is trying to say is that you would mean all US citizens, and of course BOB. I think.

      • DaWitchesBroom

        I think he posted into the wrong article. He is trying to ask retorical questions about financial policy matters that he thinks caused the financial crisis such as the blending of lending and investment banking and other matters. He blames the republicans and people who are connected to Wall Street such as dear ole Bob. Blame is a free and plentiful commodity at all times. Stocks, bonds, currencies, commodities, and the whole lot of derivatives, swaps, hedges are a gamble. Better believe that.

    • alpha-lemming

      Do you suppose that discrepancy has anything to do with Government intrusions and forever taking bigger pieces of the pie (well over 1/2 and appraoching 2/3 of peoples income when you combine “hard” taxes plus the unseen but very real bureaucracy that increases the cost of everything)? When squeezed, businesses answer has ALWAYS been to operate “leaner and meaner”… do more with less, get 150% out of employees and in a worst case scenerio… reduce the work force and get the remainder to put out 150%. That’s the way it’s gonna stay until Government gets SERIOUSLY pruned back… at least a third!! While still profitable, our place is running around like a NASCAR pit-crew just to stay even. New hires have always been a lagging indicator as to the health of an economy.

      Finally, your hatred of Reagan is WELL documented in your rantings but it wasn’t he who SPENT anything but rather your beloved progressives (same thing in the new millenium but with Rs beside their names… still progressives…. add in 9-11 and 2 wars). History and his legacy MUST be destroyed beacuse QED… OUTCOMES/RESULTS prove he’s right and subsequently are fatal to the lefts’ governing theories.

    • TIME

      Clarenceee,
      It would seem you fail to grasp much of anything per your post over and over again. So on that note let me give you a base education in simple math.

      Wall Street is main Street dude, With the stock market not only will the company grow, but so to will peoples 401 K’s, or Retirement funds, or just monthly income if stocks are how you make you monthly nut, of what many do.

      Do the traders make money, you bet ya they do, but it on VOLUME, so if 500 million stocks trade at a $1.00 profit to the stock broker, and a $5.00 profit to the stock holder, the Broker makes, $500 Million, the stock holders make $2.5 billion.

      Then in steps the Government who then takes 50% of all the net profits, then the Government waste that money of people who will not even try and work for a living, or Illegal’s, or BS wars, or on what ever waste of the moment the government can conjure up, aslo known as Voodoo Politic’s.

      But, as you seem to be filled with the “BIG GREEN ENVY bug,” that all may still be just to much for your limited amount of gray matter to grasp.
      Perhaps a visit to a good shrink would give you some aid with your Big Green ENVY bug problems. They do have meds for people like you, you do know that right?

    • JeffH

      CLARENCE SWINNEY, once again I’ll point out that CLARENCE SWINNEY makes his living from writing and blogging for the Democratic Underground, blogging in the Huffington Post and In These Times.

      • JC

        And typically Jeff, none of it bears up to any amount of scrutiny and none of it results in a full circle thought…that reaches logical conclusions. Just as none of it takes into account a number of influential factors…like over bearing government intrusion from both sides of the aisle.
        It’s just carefully (or not so) worde bits of propoganda strung together in order to evoke an emotional reaction.
        (Yes we can Yes we can,) ;)

    • Gary

      WTF dude? What are you on?

  • Angel Wannabe

    I don’t trust polls, numbers can be manipulated just like the Washington manipulates us! I’d like to know what the hell all these power hungry elitists are going to do, when there’s no more power or money left to steal?___ Washington’s greed, reminds me of the famous Charles Dickens story “A Christmas Carol” with Scrooge played by, Alistair Sim. I can still see him counting his money at seven o’clock in the evening, before closing the shop, and reluctantly visiting his sick and dying partner Jacob Marley. There is a hell-of-a-lotta SCROOGES in Washington these days. Integrity, caring for fellow man, has slowly but deliberately been replaced with, “that Government is the answer,and you need us attitude”. Waaay too many people have swallowed this bitter pill and all of us now are paying for it. Those of you who are still asleep at the wheel, Wake the hell up folks, “Watch what Washington Does, Not What it Says”!_-Stay on it!!

  • s c

    Hopefully, there is such a thing as an objective poll (somewhere). I suspect most pollsters are tempted to manipulate their findings, and the easiest way to do it is to ‘load’ the questions.
    Now that people are finally beginning to understand what is so wrong with a government that never hesitates to coerce its citizens (yes, both parties), it is possible that those same people might even begin to rely less on a subjective media
    and get information on their own.
    In case some folks start whizzing and moaning about the “purity” of their favorite pollster(s), they would do well to remember (and ADMIT) that pollsters rarely gather information unless there is a monetary incentive to create that poll in the first place.

    • Al Sieber

      SC,I agree with you, good point. people need to do their own research. and I believe there is manipulation going on.

      • dan az

        Hey Al
        I couldn’t agree more.Untill they poll 150 million people then I would agree that they where only half right!

      • Jana

        The biggest and best poll of all will be Nov. 2.

      • dan az

        Jana
        We can only hope!

      • Christin

        dan az,

        “We can” do more than “only hope”… “we can pray” to an Almighty God.

    • Anthony

      Thanks for the assist, SC. I agree, but I would extend the thought into the realm of THEY ARE ALREADY DOING SO, and HAVE BEEN FOR A LONG LONG TIME. How many people do you know that can’t stop themselves from blaming Reagan, for all sorts of B$..? Yet, despite the CFR monkees he was surrounded by, Ronald Reagan’s message shined thru and reached the people no matter how long and loud Dan Rather or Peter Jennings would scream or contradict.

      Sure, there was a lot of nonsense during the Eighties, especially in Central America… and elsewhere… but do your homework and you will find it was the likes of Volcker, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and the Leadership of the DEM party (in ultimate power) that were involved in all phases of such nonsense.

      To this day, I stand by the stance that Reagan’s jellybeans were LOADED with ASPARTAME…. moreso than anything you might find on the Store shelves. His alzheimer’s came on soooo sudden, like no one elese I’ve ever heard of… No other explanation has credibility.

      In my perview – the Media has been loading the POLLING questions since the days of LBJ and so on. Whichever way supported the real stance of those who control our currency … if it made us feel good and kept us at bay, while they altered the Stock Market of the Dollar
      Gold standard…. then, so be it.

      LBJ had the USS Liberty…. How many of you spoke out against it?
      Nixon pulled the dollar off the gold standard.. under a misconception of finance tactics? A debate, to be sure.

      Only Ford & Reagan were not members of the CFR and became President in spite of that fact. SInce it’s inception, all other Presidents WERE members of the CFR… and YOU, the People, had no say in what chouce you voted for.

      I say the POLLING nonsense (thanks for the Link, Bob) is still a red herring and consistently a setup …when the Nightly News will NOT show you what the questions were… and that is my MAIN point.

      Why do they avoid showing us the questions, when they announce the results on the 6 o’clock news ?

      • DaveH

        Anthony,
        Even with his diminishing brain, Reagan had more wisdom that the vast majority of other politicians. Of course, maybe the others weren’t ignorant at all, but just evil.

      • Jana

        Anthony,
        Are you sure your real name isn’t Thomas?

      • dan az

        Anthony
        If you remember Janet Rieno also got alzheimer’s right after waco pretty suddenly too!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      sc,
      I wonder where Anthony is NOW???

  • Anthony

    Good write-up, Bob. Yet, I would ask… Whenever someone cites a POLL (almost as if we’re talking about High School popularity, btw), why is it no one ever lists a LINK to that POLL so the rest of the Nation can actually read the questions for themselves(?)

    How are the questions worded?
    Are they depicting in the news story a correct corrolation from those questions?
    Or, are they stretching a thin premise as if it’s the real & basic structure of the Polling Questions?
    Can the People see an Agenda behind the Poll?
    Or is it just out to find information / tracking consumers, as it were?

    I think I’ve actually read (after the fact) maybe two or three polls in my entire time online. You always hear about a POLL, but in that Article or the telling of it, you simply do not see the questionnaire listed within.

    As most can surmise, all Polling Questions can be designed to manipulate the public into an answer more desired by the Creator of the Poll. And, this is where the pittfalls occur.

    At the very least, we’ve been able to extrapolate for quite some time now, Polls will be designed to have a slant to them and the end results will be manipulated for the desired outcome by the group producing said POLL in the first place.

    A poll wlll be used most often to foment the (false) Left/Right Paradigm as a decoy conversation. It is the most often used discussion in politics. Real governmental policy discussions do not occur with the public involved – it is always after the fact (i.e.: “we must vote on the Bill, so we can read it” – Nancy Pelosi … if this isn’t wagging the dog, I don’t know what is)

    Nowadays, there are enough documentaries on YouTube and/or Google (alone) to keep on away from the alpha waves of your TV sets, for many weeks – especially if you dare to research the comments and evidence given within. Many people simply will not drive themselves in that direction, due to fear that they’ve been had all their lives – standing up for the status quo is all they know, or dare to know.

    The real danger to POLLS, is the fact that those running them, can (and do?) falsify whatever the outcome might be, so as to re-direct what the bandwagon-wannabe’s of our citizenry’s attitudes and intentions on the political landscape …. this happens a lot more than just about anyone here would like to admit.

    My stance is -
    Dems always get a boost by at least 20-25%
    Repubs usually get a deflation of about the same amount. 20-25%

    Next time, as you look at any POLL, try and remember this simple math and extrapolate the numbers you are hearing … see how you feel then…

    AND, AREN’T YOU THE LEAST BIT CURIOUS AS TO WHAT THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS WERE….EVEN IN THIS AMBIGUOUS POLL ?

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston
      • Conservative at Birth

        I don’t see how this poll can be skewed one way or another. Simple and straight forward question.

      • Craig

        Any poll that does not favor the libs is skewed. Just like the Black Panthers were not intimidating other voter and Moochelle Oidiot was not breaking the law by pushing other to vote for her idiot husband Marxist agenda.

      • Vicki

        I checked the poll too. Pretty straight forward questions without much leading of the viewer at all.

    • Vicki

      Anthony writes:
      “A poll wlll be used most often to foment the (false) Left/Right Paradigm as a decoy conversation. It is the most often used discussion in politics. Real governmental policy discussions do not occur with the public involved – it is always after the fact (i.e.: “we must vote on the Bill, so we can read it” – Nancy Pelosi … if this isn’t wagging the dog, I don’t know what is)”

      What she actually said is far more obnoxious than implied above
      “We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it..”
      http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/10/video-of-the-week-we-have-to-pass-the-bill-so-you-can-find-out-what-is-in-it/

  • http://personalliberty.com Jessica

    Of course they think we’re dumb. Why else would they launch that bogus lie about the Chamber of Commerce using foriegn money to finance GOP candidates? And it backfired royally, because it reminded everybody of all the dirty Middle Eastern money that flowed into Obama’s campaign coffers.

    • Patriot

      I’ve got some bad news for you. The Red Chinese are bank rolling a number of campaigns, both Republican and Democrat. Our politcal system is broken. Having lived in a number of Third World nations, I can honestly say that politicians in Washington are the most corrupt in the world.

      • BrotherPatriot

        We have to purge & replace with Constitutional Representatives (Republican Conservatives, imho).

        It will only happen if “we the People” demand it. If this were to happen…it then would become our duty to keep tabs on what the elected are voting for…accountability.

      • Anthony

        ONLY the Repubs, partner….? Who the flyin’ f-@#$%^&*( are you anyway? ONLY the Republican Conservatives…. what a hockey puck. I can’t believe I’m reading this B$.

        Much like Alexander hamilton — You’ve chosen a misleading moniker.

        PROVE OTHERWISE….

      • old white guy

        possibly you know some liberal or progressive conservatives.

      • Mike In MI

        Cool it, Anthony -
        I wouldn’t think BP guilty of saying what you imply. A modern day Alexander hamilton would be that traitor Brenanke. The last thing that bird wants is accountablility which goes for all the libs and prog-frogs. I guess I’d have to add in all the RINOs, too. Anybody who voted for the original bailouts and TARP trap since none of them voted to include any accounting of where the money went or what was done with it.
        The base reason for that was that there was a verbal promise to the bankers and mortgage people that they would be covered for their losses when the loans went bad by whatever was in Soc. Sec., Medicare,and the rest of the entitlement pools. When those proved to be already raided the progs and Bush-babies had to find other resources.
        Just another reason why big government is a terrible, awful idea. If they can steal your wealth they throttle your rights to use the freedom any wealth gives us, and stransfers it to whoever takes it.

      • Karolyn

        And where did you get this information?

      • Carole Howell

        Can everyone handle this much truth, we are not falling behind because we cannot compete with China, we are falling behind because we cannot compete with Germany who sells more to China than we do. Germany makes money off of China, But China makes money off of us.

        Why Germany Has It So Good — and Why America Is Going Down the Drain
        Germans have six weeks of federally mandated vacation, free university tuition, and nursing care. Why the US pales in comparison.
        October 14, 2010 |

        While the bad news of the Euro crisis makes headlines in the US, we hear next to nothing about a quiet revolution in Europe. The European Union, 27 member nations with a half billion people, has become the largest, wealthiest trading bloc in the world, producing nearly a third of the world’s economy — nearly as large as the US and China combined. Europe has more Fortune 500 companies than either the US, China or Japan.

        European nations spend far less than the United States for universal healthcare rated by the World Health Organization as the best in the world, even as U.S. health care is ranked 37th. Europe leads in confronting global climate change with renewable energy technologies, creating hundreds of thousands of new jobs in the process. Europe is twice as energy efficient as the US and their ecological “footprint” (the amount of the earth’s capacity that a population consumes) is about half that of the United States for the same standard of living.

        Unemployment in the US is widespread and becoming chronic, but when Americans have jobs, we work much longer hours than our peers in Europe. Before the recession, Americans were working 1,804 hours per year versus 1,436 hours for Germans — the equivalent of nine extra 40-hour weeks per year.

        In his new book, Were You Born on the Wrong Continent?, Thomas Geoghegan makes a strong case that European social democracies — particularly Germany — have some lessons and models that might make life a lot more livable. Germans have six weeks of federally mandated vacation, free university tuition, and nursing care. But you’ve heard the arguments for years about how those wussy Europeans can’t compete in a global economy. You’ve heard that so many times, you might believe it. But like so many things, the media repeats endlessly, it’s just not true.

        According to Geoghegan, “Since 2003, it’s not China but Germany, that colossus of European socialism, that has either led the world in export sales or at least been tied for first. Even as we in the United States fall more deeply into the clutches of our foreign creditors — China foremost among them — Germany has somehow managed to create a high-wage, unionized economy without shipping all its jobs abroad or creating a massive trade deficit, or any trade deficit at all. And even as the Germans outsell the United States, they manage to take six weeks of vacation every year. They’re beating us with one hand tied behind their back.”
        Thomas Geoghegan, a graduate of Harvard and Harvard Law School, is a labor lawyer with Despres, Schwartz and Geoghegan in Chicago. He has been a staff writer and contributing writer to The New Republic, and his work has appeared in many other journals. Geoghagen ran unsuccessfully in the Democratic Congressional primary to succeed Rahm Emanuel, and is the author of six books including Whose Side Are You on, The Secret Lives of Citizens, and, most recently, Were You Born on the Wrong Continent?

        Terrence McNally: You start your book Were you Born on the Wrong Continent? with a personal experience, a stopover in Zurich. Could you talk about that?
        Thomas Geoghegan: In 1993 I got it in my head, for reasons too long to tell, to go see a woman I’d met who happened to be in Moscow. Because of the coup in October 1993, all the flights to Moscow were canceled, and I ended up in Zurich. I had not been in Western Europe for years, and, while I was waiting for clearance, I happened to walk around the streets and I was just thunderstruck by how nice it was. Every bookstore seemed like a boutique and even the train station was like a perfumery. And I thought, how did this part of the world get so wealthy without my knowing it? That was the epiphany that led me to take a bigger and bigger interest in how Europeans live, and to ask ultimately, were you born in the wrong continent?

        McNally: In talking about that walk, you point out that if you don’t have much poverty, life is better for everybody. Not just better for the poor, but for everybody.

        Geoghegan: You have more of the city available to you. [My hometown] Chicago’s fantastic, but there’s a huge swath of it that you don’t particularly want to go to — not because of any criminal danger, but just because it’s run down. Largely white ethnic neighborhoods on the northwest side are unattractive and dilapidated. Plus there are huge parts of the city that are downright dangerous. Europe isn’t like that. It’s the argument for social democracy: more equality and less poverty and disorder.

        McNally: In their book, The Spirit Level, Richard Wilkinson and Kate Picket point out that on average everything is worse for everybody in the countries with the most unequal distribution of wealth.

        Geoghegan: As a labor lawyer, I can see that janitors and truck drivers I represent would be better off in a social democracy. I make the argument in the book that even people who are doing relatively well would be literally, materially better off in a more egalitarian social democracy. Some of the public goods that are available there for free- – university education, for example, are skewed towards the people who are relatively at the top.

        McNally: Someone who doesn’t go to university doesn’t get that benefit, but a family who sends two or three kids gets an enormous benefit.

        Geoghegan: Of course, low income sectors do better too. Nonetheless, it could be said, there’s a growing amount of poverty in Germany. Especially during the 1990′s and the early part of the last decade, there was a scaling back of social democracy. For a while the bubble of casino capitalism in the US and the UK led to an allocation of capital into the US and UK looking for hot returns. Since the collapse of casino type capitalism in 2008, money has shifted back where it should have been in the first place, to the virtuous economies of the world like Germany, based in manufacturing.

        McNally: I recall Kevin Phillips pointing out in his book Bad Money that year after year the US shifted more and more of our money and our best and brightest young people into finance. When the casino seemed to be paying off, other countries also shifted in our direction, but when it broke, we didn’t have the manufacturing and export base a country like Germany has to fall back on.

        Geoghegan: The Germans had a certain amount of schadenfreude about the whole thing. They’re basically a very pessimistic people by temperament, and when they saw a world debacle that they weren’t responsible for, they actually became a little more upbeat.

        They had what they call a good recession. The German government was very quick off the mark, and immediately put in place what they called kurzabeit. Through this short work-week program, the government paid people to stay on the job when they otherwise might have been let go.

        We got ahead of the curve,” one German labor minister said, “employment didn’t drop here the way it did in the US.” When the economy recovered, there was no incentive to hold off hiring because the people were already on the job. Their unemployment is now significantly lower than ours and the economy is booming.

        McNally: When asked why Obama didn’t pursue a similar policy to stem the economic bleeding, Larry Summers dismissed the idea, saying the White House wanted to create new jobs not preserve old ones.

        Geoghegan: A pretty lame answer.

        Terrence McNally: And an arrogant one. Good for you, Larry. What about the guy who lost his job? And his family and his kids?

        Geoghegan: Larry Summers is the villain of my book. He was an architect of deregulation, and was doing a war dance back in the late 1990′s about how the US model was triumphant over all. Now, the shoe’s on the other foot.

        McNally: What’s the status of the crisis in Europe right now? The EU includes not only virtuous, productive economies like Germany, but also others not nearly so.

        Geoghegan: Those less virtuous economies were the so-called “new Europe” that Donald Rumsfeld was touting. People in the countries that are in trouble now economically were the ones willing to go to Iraq — and there is a connection. These are the countries that were much more inclined to go the American route, going into debt heavily, using housing speculation as the engine of the economy, and opening their economies big time to global bank debt and finance.

        Goldman Sachs poured tons of money into Greece, and other New York, London and German banks poured money into Spain. None of the bubbles occurred in Germany and in the “old Europe” that Donald Rumsfeld wrote off. Part of Europe is in trouble to the extent — and only to the extent — that it’s involved in the American model. Those countries most resistant to the American model are doing fine.

        By the way, why was Goldman Sachs willing to lend money to weak economies like Greece? Because Greece was in the EU. Because Spain was in the EU. These countries would never have gotten all this money from US banks. And what is so important about the EU? At the end of the day the Germans with their trade surplus are able to pay — and in fact that’s what has happened.

        McNally: How is the relationship unfolding between Germany and the economies it is bailing out?
        Geoghegan: It’s working out pretty well. The Germans are doing even better because the Euro fell — it was overvalued to begin with — and that made German goods more competitive. After the great debt crisis, the Euro became relatively cheaper, and that made Germany more profitable as an export country. Greece didn’t collapse, partly because the Germans bailed it out and partly because there was belt tightening in Greece and plenty of tourists still coming in.

        McNally: By the way, Greece represents only 2% of the EU’s total GDP, whereas California represents 14% of the US. Yet when California reached out to the federal government for similar help, it didn’t get it.

        Geoghegan: You see a story in the New York Times every six weeks — ever since I graduated from college in 1971 — about how Europe is going to collapse. They come out like clockwork.

        McNally: I pulled one of those Times articles in May when the Greek crisis was hot. The headline: “Europeans Fear Crisis Threatens Liberal Benefits.” But you point out that when a country like Germany takes something away from the safety net, they usually balance it with a benefit.

        Geoghegan: They cut back on holiday and they add a nursing home benefit. But the US press always focuses on the cutback. One of the reasons I wrote this book was to show that there’s a leadership class over there that is very clever about these things. I don’t mean in a spurious, tricky way, but actually thinking, “What do we have to cut back now so that we can go forward in the future?”

        To quote a wonderful line from the Lampedusa novel, The Leopard: as the old order is collapsing, the Sicilian aristocrat says to his young prince, “We have to change so that everything remains the same.” How do you change social democracy so that you preserve it, and maybe even create an opportunity to expand it in a year or two when the wheel of fortune turns again?

        McNally: Let’s talk about some of the contrasts in the book between our culture and theirs. People here work nine more weeks per year.

        Geoghegan: In the US, the most driven work 2300 hours a year, and people a notch or two below the most driven are working 1800 hours a year. That doesn’t count hours that are off the clock.

        McNally: Why do we work so hard? You say one of the reasons is because we don’t have unions or job security. People are afraid that if they don’t work weekends and overtime, if they don’t skip their kid’s soccer game, they’ll get laid off.

        Geoghegan: Nobody knows who’s going to be laid off next. It’s all arbitrary, Chainsaw Al could knock down your cubicle door at any time. So everyone has an incentive to stay five minutes longer than everyone else, and that creates anarchy. According to labor economists Richard Freeman at Harvard and Linda Bell at Haverford, in the US there’s nobody to tell you to go home.

        McNally: Given the fact that we work more, are we more productive?

        Geoghegan: If you consider productivity as output per hour, working longer probably decreases it. My friend Isabelle came to the US to attend grad school at Northwestern, and was upset when she discovered there were no holidays here. In the middle of the year, I found her very stressed, and I figured out what was happening: she was working American hours with German efficiency. When you look at the fact that Germans rank at the top of the world in terms of export sales — on a par with the Chinese who work till they drop — you realize they must be doing something that makes them more efficient.

        Leisure time also has material value. The fact that Americans work longer and longer hours increases GDP per capita, but it doesn’t necessarily raise our standard of living.

        McNally: Americans don’t know how things actually work in European countries. For many people the fact that Germany is neck and neck with China as the number one exporting country — give or take the rise and fall of currency – must be mind blowing. Even progressives in America don’t look overseas for models that work. I find it almost pathological that our exceptionalism infects even those who assume they don’t believe in it.

        Geoghegan: I have a friend who’s just come back from being a journalist for a long time in France and now works as a political reporter in Washington DC. She recently told me, “It’s become impossible for me to stay in a carpool with other women journalists because all I do is say to them, ‘Oh, it’s so much better in France This is so much better If this happened we wouldn’t’ She said, “They’re just so sick of me, they don’t want to hear anything more about France.”

        In some ways it’s understandable and in some ways it’s tragic. Another journalist friend of mine told me, “The three most deadly words in American journalism are ‘in Sweden they’ People just won’t keep going from there, and why is that? These are economies that have developed a level of sophistication and look like the US in so many ways. People say, “Europe’s becoming just like America,” but it’s not.

        McNally: Let’s make a quick comparison of GDP. The problem with GDP is that it has only an addition side, it doesn’t have a subtraction side. So an auto accident increases GDP; crime increases GDP.

        Geoghegan: Waste and fraud and gambling; Katrina increases GDP; urban sprawl especially increases GDP. Hours stuck in traffic increase GDP.

        McNally: plus the fact that we’ve monetized so many things that we used to do for ourselves or for our families

        Geoghegan: You’re shelling out $50,000 in tuition for NYU law school and your counterpart in Europe is getting it for free. How pathetic for the poor European adding nothing to GDP. In America we’re increasing GDP, but dragging down people’s standard of living.

        It’s a very perverse system of accounting. You say it’s all addition and no subtraction, but it’s not even all addition. Nothing increases your well-being or your material standard of living as much as leisure time. Among the untouchables in India, of course, that’s absolutely not the case; leisure is a nightmare, unemployment is a nightmare. But for many, a loss of leisure is a loss of material value.

        For example, leisure to go to a free concert at Millennium Park in Chicago. It’s a glorious experience. People in Europe are gaga about it, because it’s the one thing in America that seems to them the most European — wonderful orchestras, pop bands, jazz bands, playing right in the middle of the city; gorgeous lawns; people picnicking, etc. — and it’s all free. It’s so un-American, there’s no money going out the door. It makes a mark on your life but you can’t turn it into a sum of dollars, so it doesn’t mean anything — even though of course it means everything.

        McNally: You say the three building blocks of German social democracy are the works councils, the election of boards of directors by workers as well as by hedge fund managers, and the regional wage setting institutions.

        Geoghegan: First: work councils. The analogy I used in the book is fictitious: Imagine you elect a works council from among the employees at the Barnes & Noble bookstore where you work. They don’t bargain for wages, that’s done by the unions; but they have all sorts of rights that relate to working time, who gets laid off, even whether the store is going to close or not. They can go in and look at the books. The management has to enter into agreements. The works council can’t dictate, but they have enormous influence over what working hours will be, who’s going to work when and how.

        Co-determined boards are mandated at German companies with 2000 employees or more, the global companies that are beating us, although you can have them in other situations. These are maybe more like super boards that don’t do as much day-to-day managing as our boards of directors do. It consists one half of people elected by and from the workers, and one half elected by the shareholders.

        The chairman of the board is selected by the shareholders and has a double vote so that, if there’s a tie between the shareholders and the employees, the shareholders win. But it creates a lot of potential influence over how the debate goes.

        McNally: But you also say that the shoe is on the other foot when it comes to choosing the CEO, correct?

        Geoghegan: If the shareholders are divided on who should be the next CEO, the clerks get to pick the king.

        McNally: In contract negotiations over the last 10, 15, 20 years, American workers have been giving back things, agreeing to two tiers, lowering their pension guarantees. I’ve never heard of any of them trading a concession for the right to elect members to the board.

        Geoghegan: The UAW had somebody on the board once.

        McNally: Management can’t even say it won’t work because Germany’s beating our pants in manufacturing, and the codetermined board is also spreading elsewhere, right?

        Geoghegan: The German model has made inroads on the US model in other European countries.

        McNally: You quote the German labor minister saying, “Our biggest export now is co-determination”. Now, third: regional or sector wage settling.

        Geoghegan: It’s much reduced these days, but they still have some version of regional wage bargaining setting standards that everybody has to comply with. That used to be true here — to a lesser extent than in Germany — but it’s disappeared.

        McNally: Are you talking about a situation where you would negotiate with one of the big three automakers and the others would basically get the same deal?

        Geoghegan: I was thinking more of the United Mineworkers negotiating a contract with multiple employer associations to produce a national agreement that covered every employer. That was true in the coal industry and with the Teamsters in the trucking industry.

        McNally: Agreements across a whole industry create a sense of transparency, right?

        Geoghegan: People know what their wages are. East Germany was a factor in the breakdown. You couldn’t really have the same labor costs and labor standards that you had in West Germany because the economy wasn’t at the same stage of development.

        IMcNally: f you compare your quality of life and the prospective quality of life for your children with the German quality of life, things are only getting worse. To cite just one example, economist Robert Frank talks about the fact that American families end up moving into neighborhoods they can’t afford because that’s where the good schools are, and I’m sure this played some role in the mortgage collapse.

        Geoghegan: We’d be much more competitive globally if Americans had six weeks off, and had a chance to go and see what people are doing in other countries. We’d come back much more sophisticated about them and probably have better ideas about how to sell things to them.

        McNally: You point out that as globalization grew, the US chose to compete on the basis of cheap labor by outsourcing. We kept the marketing and executives here and moved the manufacturing elsewhere. We’ve been playing that game for 20-30 years now. Germany chose to play the opposite game.

        Geoghegan: 30 years later the Germans are making money off of China, and China is making big time money off of us. One thing I really try to get across in the book: Many Americans think that we’ve got a trade deficit because we can’t compete with China. We’ve got a trade deficit because we can’t compete with Germany in selling things to China. Until people wake up and look at the kinds of things that the Germans are doing to keep their manufacturing base, we’re going to continue to run deficits which leave us in the clutches of foreign creditors and compromise our autonomy as a country.

        McNally: This is something that the right wing should be up in arms about.
        Geoghegan: Absolutely. And they’re clueless. They are mortgaging this country’s future and they’re too stupid to realize it.

        McNally: This seems like a good point to turn to “10 Things the Dems Could Do To Win,” a cover story I wrote for a recent issue of The Nation.

        Geoghegan: The Democrats have to do something for their base, keep it simple and make it universal. Unlike the healthcare bill which was perceived as a handout for “them”, the uninsured, many of them in red states. Democrats should focus on things that either give a direct benefit to people or give them a sense of power.

        For example, increase Social Security so that it’s a real public pension — push Social Security benefits up to 50% of people’s income. Of course we can’t do this overnight, but we can set it as a serious goal.

        McNally: Social security in the US is 39% at this point. In Germany it was 67%, but it’s dropped?

        Geoghegan: To the low fifties. But people have tons of money in the bank over there, there’s a high savings rate and, at least in the unions, they also have private pensions that work much better than in the US.

        McNally: They also don’t graduate college with thousands of dollars of debt that many will carry for the rest of their lives.

        Geoghegan: They do have a demographic crisis that they’re going to have to get through, but they’ve protected the system.

        McNally: Raising social security to 50% of working income means that when you go on to social security you’ll get half of what you were getting when you were working. Currently you get less than two-fifths.

        Geoghegan: The top 20 developed countries have an average rate of something like 60%, so we can do this.

        My second proposal is simply the most effective way to move ultimately to a single payer healthcare system, which I think we have to do. I would say that even if I didn’t think single payer were a better system. You have to have one consistent system of payment to get control of healthcare costs. All the European countries do. It doesn’t have to be single payer, but it has to be a consistent system. You can’t have a mix of private market and single payer.

        Let’s lower Medicare’s eligibility to 55. What brought back GM and Chrysler? The government came in and took away their retiree healthcare costs. We’ve got to lower labor costs not by bringing down wages — that would be a disaster, but by having the government assume wage labor costs that are making us less competitive. People of 55-65 will all vote for you because it will change their lives.

        McNally: Folks like Alan Simpson and Pete Peterson are going to say, “Wait a minute, you’re going in exactly the wrong direction.”

        Geoghegan: Social security basically is solvent now even at its current level. And I have ways of paying for it.

        First, if you brought back the estate tax and dedicated the proceeds to the Social Security trust–as Robert Ball, former Social Security commissioner, once proposed. Second, lift the cap on the Social Security tax — it’s at $90,000 now — so it applies to all incomes. After all, Social Security is for everyone. Third, if you did things like eliminate the corporate debt protection for debt that is used in leverage buyouts and non-productive uses right now, you could generate the financial reserve that could pay for this. Finally, I do think people should pay a little more for their Social Security because they’re going to get a better deal.

        All of these things have two purposes, to do something directly beneficial to the base now, and to do something that reduces the size and influence of the financial sector and increases the viability of manufacturing.

        Lowering the age for Medicare, for example, allows employers to substantially lower their labor costs for their most expensive workers. It’s not just to make them competitive, but it’s also to induce investment into manufacturing which is right now inhibited by the uncertainty of healthcare costs. Ultimately the goal of all of this is to get the US out of debt.

        The debt issue ought to be the Democrat’s issue not the Republicans. The real debt issue is our external trade deficit. We either have consumers go into debt to make the books balance at the end of the day as we did during the Bush era, or we have the federal government do it when consumers cut back. We don’t earn out way in the world, and until we do, we’re going to be running either large consumer debts which lead to private financial panics, or federal debt which could lead to a sovereign default. We’ve got to get out of that box, and the only way to do it is to put in measures that make our economy more competitive globally.
        McNally: You’re saying that Obama and the Democratic party could transform the issue of debts and deficits by offering solutions that are not just about paying today’s bill, but about restructuring our ability to pay the bill in the future.
        Geoghegan: We will never get out of debt until we confront our inability to pay our way in the world. Somebody is going to be in debt, whether it’s me the taxpayer paying off the federal deficit or me the consumer paying off my Visa card. It doesn’t make a whole lot of difference at the end of the day. The Democrats ought to present themselves as the party that has a plan to get the country out of debt.

        McNally: You also recommend a usury cap on credit cards.

        Geoghegan: You’ve got to get returns down in the financial sectors and returns up in manufacturing sectors. That’s the key. And proposing that will split the business community in this country in a very healthy way. The Democrats can be the party of the manufacturers, even if it’s at the expense of Wall Street. For years, the Democrats have slipped the other way. People perceive that and they’re frustrated by it.

        McNally: The financial sector currently funds both parties. Republicans get to be true to their convictions, while Democrats end up negotiating with themselves. Though they may have some progressive leanings, their funders pull them in the other direction.

        Geoghegan: Even progressive Democrats don’t have the sophistication of their counterparts on the left in France and Germany in terms of understanding how important it is not to run up a national debt. Here we march against Mexico and put up tariff walls. They don’t do that in Europe, they’re not that unsophisticated.

        McNally: Let me finish with a quote of yours that really struck me: Without an industrial base a democracy dies.

        Geoghegan: My own favorite ending line would be: Countries like Germany do both capitalism and socialism better than we do.

        Interviewer Terrence McNally hosts Free Forum on KPFK 90.7FM, Los Angeles and WBA I99.5FM, New York (streaming at kpfk.org and wbai.org). He also advises non-profits and foundations on communications. Visit terrencemcnally.net for podcasts of all interviews and more.

      • JeffH

        The New Republic is nothing more than a magazine that supports liberal social and social democratic economic policies. They also have a very limited readership.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        JeffH,
        If all their collumns are as long and windy as that one and say absolutly nothing worth while like that one then I can see why they have a limited readership!!! By the time I got to the end of it I was almost cross-eyed and bored to death!!

      • JeffH

        Joe H., some people still can’t cut & paste then leave a link.

      • Eric Bischoff

        If that’s all you got from that story, you may be illiterate but I suspect that your ism and phobia filters are what’s keeping you from your god given potential and that’s a shame. I feel sorry for you.

      • Eric Bischoff

        If we followed your line of limited thinking, Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin or Tesla Motor’s small client list would imply that they are crap compared to the big mainstream car companies.

        I don’t understand how you can be for deregulation and small government but be supportive of large media conglomerates that promote only a few company’s products, services and ideas, as in the drug companies, the oil companies, coal companies, big Telecom companies and car companies, and help them shut out any competition therefore destroying the premise of competition and the free market system. You are supporting the rigging of the system so that the biggest bribes win.

        I thank god that these small magazines, non profit radio and TV are there to keep some kind of sanity to this madness. They are obviously labors of love as the people doing this will never get rich but they continue to do it because it is the right thing to do. Isn’t that what our declaration of independence our constitution and our bill of rights were for? to protect free speech and minorities from the oppressive mainstream mobs.

        If you are satisfied with mediocrity and propaganda then by all means keep limiting yourself to just watching Fox and the alphabet networks or reading People, The Wall St Journal, USA Today or your local papers which are all owned by just a few mega, mostly absent from your communities, corporations. Then go to a famous fast food joint and have your best you can ever get, subsidized by your dumb ass, food. A hormone and anitbiotics ladden, corn fed burger, some devoid of any nutrition french fries and a corn syrup sweet soda.

        IT takes all kinds to make a world and I am sorry but I cannot and will not follow your line of limited thinking and that’s what is great about this country, I don’t have to.

        So please reexamine your flawed thinking when you want government out of our lives while at the same time wishing you could silence alternative thinking.

      • JeffH

        Eric Bischoff continually says Baaaa, Baaaa, Baaaa….Yes Eric, were just a bunch of illiterate little followers, not big time liberal hacks for the Marxist in charge like you and your minions. Thanks but no thanks, I’ll continue to make my own judgements without the Marxist, socialists and communists influences, or just maybe they do have an influence afterall…I see by your posts that you are crtainly influenced by it all…a bit hypoctritical?

      • JeffH

        Oh Eric, the “I feel sorry for you” comments don’t hold any water around here. It is used quite freely by the liberal hacks on this website and is nothing more than an untruth.

      • DaveH

        Ignorant Eric,
        Those Big Corporations, that you so despise, couldn’t shut out their competition without the help of Big Government regulations. The big companies can afford the cadres of lawyers and paper-pushers to comply with the myriad regulations that you advocate. The small companies can’t. It is you and your ignorant cohorts that unwittingly promote those crony capitalists. Without Government intrusion into the marketplace, the consumer would be king rather than the bought and paid-for bureaucrats. Without Big Government, those Big Corporations would have to please the consumers, rather than greasing the correct political palms to squelch their competition.
        It’s pathetic that you are so ignorant as to fear private corporatists who couldn’t force us to do anything (without the force of Big Government), yet turn around and trust the people in Government who can use force against us, and who have little to lose if they don’t please us. The kind of people who will condescendingly ignore the will of the people and say things like “We need to pass ObamaCare so that the public can find out what’s in the bill”.
        And you have the nerve to condescend us? You are a nitwit, Eric.

      • DaveH

        Carole,
        What is it with you Liberals and your cutting and pasting of long articles? You could simply post the link to your Liberal nonsense. Such as:
        http://www.alternet.org/economy/148501/why_germany_has_it_so_good_–_and_why_america_is_going_down_the_drain?page=1

        So, explain to me, Carole, how six weeks of mandated vacation, free nursing care, and free university tuition is going to make people more productive when they finally actually do some work? Do they then work harder (a lot harder) during that little time they actually do work?
        The United States Gross Domestic Product is about $14 Trillion. Our population is about 330 million people. That is approximately $42,000 per person per year.
        Germany’s GDP is about $3 Trillion. Their population is about 83 million people. That is approximately $36,000 per person per year.
        Why would we want to imitate people who are less successful than we are?
        In the past, we could work hard, save and invest our money wisely, and take all the vacation we wanted after reaching our goals. Now, thanks to useless Big Government loving Liberals, we are more and more becoming trapped in the drudgery dictated to us by the Government.

      • DaveH

        Germany’s Government currently spends 44% of GDP each year. Their Tax Take is 41% of GDP each year. That means they must borrow an additional 3% of GDP each year which adds to the existing Debt. So in ten years, at that rate, their debt load will have increased by 35% of GDP. How long do you suppose they can keep that up before their Government is overcome by the debt?

      • http://MicrosoftOutlook Cathy

        Bottom line is that there is no such thing as a free lunch. I have a friend whose daughter has just gone to Germany to teach. She said they pay 65% of their income in taxes, and electricity is so expensive that people don’t use their clothes dryers. They hang their clothes outside on lines or inside. Where she lives if you find something you like in a grocery store, buy several of the items because you may not find them when you go back again. This is a socialistic country, but changes are coming to Europe. Look what’s happening in France. The workers are protesting in the streets because they don’t want their retirement age raised to 62 from 60. This is their entitlement mindset. We are in a battle in this country for our future. Nancy Pelosi, in a speech in PA, spoke about wealth redistribution. It even sounded like she was talking about redistribution of property. I wonder if she included herself in this. Is she willing to give some of her millions to people in the lower brackets so that we can all live as one or is it only our money and property she is talking about.

        We have a lot of people supporting these Democrats in their quest to destroy our way of life, but they must not think they will be affected. I have news for them; they will go down with the rest of us.

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