Right on, Dave. I could not have stated it any better.

Sopply and demand will always win. Regardless of any law. Most of which are well-meaning, but ill-thought out.

Of course ‘sUpply’ was the intended word.

Correct. The issue is police corruption and their wanton illegal activities, in the name of justice. How perverted!

As well it should be! Some of the most dangerous criminals in America are hiding behind a badge.

A very good question. On the other hand most judges will not issue a warrant unless you have strong evidence. They may have suspected but not had any true evidence.

WRONG, 45. All the cop has to do is to TELL the judge he ‘has evidence’, no details are usually required.

New schemes for increasing power for all branches of all government are to be expected. A level playing field has not existed since Al Capone was convicted for tax evesion on sales of liquor that made Joe Kennedy rich or for that matter the harsh actions taken by Texas Rangers in the assasination of Clyde Barrow. Just remember there was an intimidated rat used in both cases. Joe Kennedy only got a democratic party fame rap sheet as long as your arm. Capone just stfu.

DaveH,
actually if you can prove you feared for your life it can be beaten. If a guy pulls a gun and says he is going to kill you, you pull a gun and shoot him first, you can go scot free!! The courts have exhonerated people for this time and time again!!

When in doubt empty the magazine, or cylinder. Dead men tell no tales.

You can bet your shirt that there were more reasons in mind than protecting the kids when the records were sealed, like $$$$$$$. Prohibition made Joe Kennedy rich running booze across lake Michigan from legal stills in Canada to the waiting mob for distribution.

45,
That defies common sense. Supposedly drugs are life-threatening, right? Or, as you have stated, they may take the lives of others in a drug-related accident. Either way they can get in a mess of trouble. Yet the still do the drugs. If they aren’t worried about losing their lives or their assets, do you really think they are going to worry about possibly going to jail? Please.

DaveH:
You missed the point. TODAY most drug dealers aren’t worried about prison. But then? The hard rock pile wasn’t a joke. You were forced to work in the hot sun from dawn till dusk. You marched there and back in the dark. You were given food – maybe if you were a good boy – and dropped into a cot to sleep. Seven days a week. Got in trouble? You were likely shot whether you started it or not. A 20 year sentence meant 20 years – no parole. And like today’s Mexican prisons, if you got 20 years, you were lucky to live that long. Life? You generally could stand up to 10 years or so before you died – maybe. Prisoners preyed upon each other openly and were ignored by the guards. Trust me, today’s prison is a picnic. Yes, going to prison then was a deterrant. That’s why I said what I did. Our prisons today are NOT a deterrant.

Joe,
You see I understand your point, as well I can’t argue with your logic as by its nature its what we are programed to feel and think.
But I now feel strongly that THC is good for anyone and is healthy for people to smoke it or make oil from it for natural meds. Or even boil the leaves for tea. As well if cooked in foods it makes for the best sleep aid you can buy that will not harm you in any way shape or form.

But the facts are I cured myself with hemp oil and now have seen nearly 70 others whom I have explained how to do it and they too have kicked cancer.
The facts are that they along with myself would now all be dead if it were not for THC oil.
I have helped now well over 50 people who had skin cancer, their doc’s still scratching their heads and yet asking no questions about how they no longer have the skin cancer.

I understand that PCP, Meth etc. are made from man made products, crack is based from Coke I understand, and please do keep in mind I am far from an expert on these items, as I don’t know anyone who is into them nor have I ever done them.

But as to Pot, I can tell you the following, I now smoke a bit to aid me to sleep, {lets face it with whats going on in the world its hard to close your eyes even to sleep.}

I went for a blood test a few months back they also tested my lungs and their functions etc. my heart and blood, the doc asked me straight up if I smoked pot, I said yes.

His responce was that I was in better condition than any one he had seen in over twenty five years he has been a Doc.
My lungs are at 100%, heart 100%, zero blockage in the blood system. And my allergies are completely gone, as in I have no more post nasal drip, no puffy eyes, no head aches.
Oh and I have 20/8 vision too and I am 60 years old.

“Real Freedom” means the ability to do as one pleases, as long as you don’t hurt or effect others. Thats when laws come into play.

Lets face it you can drive while drunk and kill someone and get up to 5 years in jail if even that much time.
Yet to have a few joints and get up to 5 years in jail. Its totaly bent.

Tell me whats logical about that. By the way this is not meant to inflame its just a logic question.

Time:
Morphine is made from opium and is a god-sent to anyone in pain. So far, though, no one has been able to tell me the difference between morphine and heroin – other than name.

Many other good drugs can come from various illegal ones. But the government forbid any medical research in hemp. I’m quite sure if that could be done, we’d find medications we could use from it too. But using it raw isn’t the answer. It might work for some and kill others. Let’s get a little research on the subject.

Actually, I think one problem is that the drug companies can’t sythasize it very easily. And that limits the use of any medication to what can be grown. As far as they are concerned, if it can’t be artificially made, it isn’t worth messing with.

Time,
I smoked cigarrettes for about 35 years, starting when I was 11 years old. I quit about ten years ago and will be 60 this Dec. I just had an artey scope ran and even with diabetesmy arteries are 100% my lungs are 100% BP is text book!120/80! After my check-up my doc said she had never seen a 60 year old with the condition of lungs I have. Especially with diabetes! I only smoked pot about three of four times and found that if I wanted to get high, I could drink some beer and it was legal. Like I said in my post above, I do support legallizing it for a proven medical need so we do agree in that aspect of it.

Vote Libertarian:
http://libertarianparty.org/platform

I agree that the government has no right to protect you from yourself – even though they say they do. However, they DO have a right to protect you from the violence of others. And drug users will, sooner or later, get violent with family or others when they are denied their drugs due to lack of money or other reasons.

Since many jobs in the US (like truck driving) require a clear head, it has been established that those who use drugs or alcohol cannot perform those jobs. When caught, they are fired and can seldom get similar jobs elsewhere, particularly when they continue to use. (Do you want a truck driver, high on some drug, come bearing down on your car at 80 mph?) Those who start using drugs, even if legal, are a hazard and will not be allowed to do this. As a result, such people seldom can hold a job (except a government job, of course) and have to acquire their drugs usually by criminal means.

I’d prefer to give us the ability to lock up such people before they start committing all those crimes. In fact, I’d like to see them do hard labor – something that is no long legal. That way they would be more careful when they get out again.

After watching a special on PBS on the drug habits and uses in Europe, mostly Belgium, I cannot agree with what you just wrote. Seems they let the people that use drugs use them. They try and keep the sale of these drugs in an area of the cities that they can watch. They have low crime, the drugs are readily available and cheap, and if you want drug rehab there is a bus that goes through each morning and takes the people that want to go to rehab. Most just hang around and do their drugs and sleep in the park so to speak. Lots of them had jobs and went to the every day.

They also interviewed a number of long term drug users. One was especially surprising – he was a 20 year cocaine users. He held a real good job, made 6 figures a year, and the drugs did not interfere in any way with his career or his advancement. This was not to say he was high while working – he was a social user and believed himself not to be addicted to the drug. I also learned that nicotine is more powerful and more addicting then cocaine. Funny huh?

I believe the same way at least one sheriff does. Can’t think of his name. “There is no such thing as a social user.”

They may call themselves that and only take it once in awhile but sooner or later they will use more and then more until they have lost everything. Would you want your kids to go to the park where the drug users hang out?

Some minor jobs are okay if the person is a user – and in the US such jobs do not require or even allow drug screening. But some do. In Houston just in the last couple of years they have caught one school bus driver using them – after she crashed the bus with kids aboard. Several Metro bus drivers have also been caught – usually after a crash. Some truck drivers have been identified as well. Many times because they are looking for a way to stay awake and drive further to make more money they will take the drugs. Chemical plants do not allow them at all and have random drug tests to catch those who might. If you are involved in an accident one of the first things that happens is a drug test. I agree with all of them. Would you want to risk such people taking drugs? This plant has a 3 mile blast radius if someone does something wrong and the safeties don’t catch it.

I’ll stay with not allowing them to use and put up with the drug wars. At least most of the time they are killing each other.

Meteorlady,
Who pays for their drug treatment?? If it isn’t them it has to be the government which means the people. If they aren’t able to pay for it are they just left to die? I kinda doubt that. I don’t think we as a people should have to pay for treatment for something that is self inflicted!!! All drug and alcohol addiction is self inflicted.

45,
Most drug crimes are a result of the Drug laws. Primarily, their high costs are a direct result of their illegality. Without the high prices the drug-related crimes would diminish dramatically.

Meteorlady,
When I was in my 30′s, I worked on a secret project. The plant was heavily guarded and scrutinized. Guess who was observed doing Cocaine at a company party? Yep, several of the security guards.

DaveH:
You are right – guards will sometimes take drugs too. They try to weed them out – and send them to jail – but some always show up. When I was in training for prison guards, the woman next to me was there for the first two days. The third day she failed her drug exam – even knowing there was going to be one.

DaveH:
SOME drug crimes – such as shootouts between gangs – would probably be reduced derastically. But it wouldn’t do much to stop or slow down burglary, robbery, etc. very much. At most, the existing drug users might OD on cheaper drugs but I suspect they would still want to come up with money for drugs.

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world’s population. But it has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners. And a large percentage are in jail for drug violations. Has it done any good besides costing us all a lot of money?

And, 45, come on. Preventive lockups? Given that most of us have harbored ill feelings at one time or another, I guess they should lock us all up to prevent harm to others.

Portugal decriminalized drugs in 2001. Do they regret it? No:
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080

Funny, 45, that when I was a teenager, before they decided to save us from drug users, there weren’t any more traffic accidents than there are now.
Besides that, the laws aren’t working anyway. Mexico is going to hell in a handbasket because of the drug trade. Where are those drugs going to? The United States of course. Obviously the threat of punishment isn’t deterring the users.

Not in today’s world. However, in MY youth, there were far fewer cars than there is now. I could drive a freeway for thirty miles and PERHAPS see 6 cars. Now I can’t go a mile without seeing dozens. The number of accidents per car has gone down due to many safety measures but the accidents were certainly there then. But I don’t know about you. Perhaps you are twenty or so?

We’re already looking back uphill, Dave.

DEA also has over $2 billion in seized assets without charges being filed. How much cash would you guess was exempt from any record with legal use of seizures by law enforcement cleared by legislation?

This will never be an effective communication medium until someone invents a sarcasm font.

Alpha your right about that. Good point.

And when someone does, I want a copy of it!

Meteorlady,
why should we support him for any number of years till his sentence is done?? Tatoo him and tell him that if he is picked up on the northern side of the border again he will be given the death penalty then deport him!!! Or we could always release him and let it leak that he was working for us against the druggies!!! either way, he will be taken care of!!!

There’s huge money being wasted on all sides of the Drug Wars. And on top of that, it’s ineffective. Oh, well, I forgot that it has been effective in turning Mexico over to the drug lords.

True Dee, but don’t let the video confuse you with the simplicity of slave ownership. Owners have many names and many fronts.
With your market value as a slave dwindling look for the new buyers. Let the news media be your guide. They’re under the white wash.

Dee,
I find it offensive that you are saying George Washington and the ‘Founders’ created a corrupt system. You must have communist ideology. David Barton researched the Masons and said the corruption in Europe Masons did not come to America. In good economic times people should not have bills. If they do they live above their means or spends too much money on alcohol. High paying jobs on often based on supply and demand and a good education. In a free society no one is obligated to give you a high paying job if you work at 7/11. Nothing is preventing you from owning a 7/11 and you can pay people as much as you want. Take some responsibility for your life and you would not be a slave.

well said bruce.

Sorry Dee, we don’t live in the same world, I live miles away from civilization, so, I don’t remember much about cities or that style of life. so I don’t know the average day-day life people go through in cities. but I know what freedom is and what we lost.

seems like to me every time someone does something wrong in this world it isn’t them that pays for it but us ! let someone commit a crime with a gun and they want to take mine ! let someone blow something up and I can’t buy something I’ve been able to buy for years (like muratic acid to clean rust, or aluminum) because you can make bombs or drugs with it I am so tired of this principle in my life, all our lives.bust the one’s responsible and leave the rest of us alone !

this is right up there with isalami !

Tom W, stick your “gay” link up your as…

I don’t think it’s so bad when it’s a mehican we’ve had so much trouble with them commiting crimes where I live and then (for whatever reason) the law enforcement letting them go their merry way back to mehico. It’s enough to “p” you off !

larryh you seem to know all of the facts involving this case so you tell us. how did they come to the conclusion he was involved in the trade? are you saying they just randomly chose this person to see what his actions were?

I’m assuming at the beginning of this case, law enforcement probably used the allegation suspicion of cultivation and trafficking as the probable cause for the search. If this is the case, then his 4th Amendment rights technically weren’t violated. I base this on the adjudication Pineda-Moreno is appealing.
Abuses of our 4th Amendment rights are becoming more commonplace, guys like Pineda-Moreno just make it easier for the cops to get away with “dirty” tactics.
Are far as the cops are concerned, its too bad that there’s a bunch of azzholes in their ranks. It makes life miserable for the decent people in law enforcement.

If they had probably cause they should have went to a judge to okay it. No good can come out of doing away with oversight of police.

My first response to this article was,,, HooYah! for the cops! I don’t know what the complete details are on this arrest or charges against that man. I only hope the agents were smart enough to actually get hard evidence before they cuffed him. from the drift of the article, it would not have been good policy to bust him based only on the fact they traced him to a pot garden without laying eyes on him to observe his actions and get photos of any illegal acts he may have been involved in. sure, I’m all for protecting our fourth amendment rights and all the rest of our rights as Americans. Those of you that fear getting caught are the only ones beefing about this guy. Hell, if he is guilty of drug law violations, hang his ass from the yardarm! My advise to all you cry-babies,,, get a life! If your NOT doing something that gets you in trouble,,, stop worrying about the small [offensive word removed]. There are much larger crimes taking place everyday right under your noises,,, by the corrupt politicians YOU put into power and YOU are too damn lazy to keep watch on them. A bit of vigilance and action there will go a damn sight further then your petty [offensive word removed] here. Man up,,, be somebody and become an American Patriot, while you still can before socialistic/communistic politicians really rob you of more or all your freedoms.

Tom,
You talk out of both sides of your mouth. A corrupt politician is one that does not faithfully obey the Constitution. Then you go on to say it is okay not to follow the Constitution if you are a cop or a judge. Most want the crimminals in jail but we do not want government to become crimminals to do it. Once you start down that path it is very dangerous. “The more corrupt thr government the numerous the laws.” Tacitus 100 AD It is possible one day you will become a criminal Tom because some politician doesn’t like your idea of Patriotism.

You are correct that to many informed people are just too LAZY to vote. End result, we that do vote for rational laws are at the mercy of the “Do-gooders” & “Know-nothingers” that do vote without KNOWING amymore that what is printed on the ballot. Nothing is worse than an a fully UNINFORMED voter!

i guess you never heard of fly overs with heat seeking equipment that would tell if the weed is grown on is property

How do you know that they snuck onto his property? The article didn’t say that. If he’s parked in a public place, what’s to stop them from planting the device there?

Now the cops can monitor your movement from the donut shop with a hand held tracking device.

I agree with you Judson. stiff penaltys for users and even stiffer penaltys for dealers and growers, and no more clinics for users at tax payers expense, if they want treetment let them pay for it,

I think all the illicit money law enforcement gets from the dealers cash, cars etc. should be used to pay for the users treatment.

Yes, Scott, what you really are talking about is LEGALIZED THIEFT, by the cops.

About 10 years back construction of rehabilitation facilities was the fastest growing industry in the country. You may be amazed at the number of high ranking executives of then existing rehabilitation institutions were heavily invested in this industry. Today these “pea farms” are all over filled with USERS and are forced to release them to make room for those convicted of more serious crimes. Maybe you could elaborate on your “severe prosecution” idea since drug usage has paralleled incarceration while making rehabilitation czars more able to invest in government guaranteed success with YOUR tax money. The effort of the “mules” transporting 20 kilo back packs into the south west or those building disposable submarines to bring in the heavy stuff from the gulf or even the walkover lumpy Grandmother with 30 pounds of cocaine taped to her body should convince anyone that some will always strive to meet demand with supply. Just what measures would you consider severe enough to fix the problem, execution?

Judson, our jails are full now with drug offenders. We cannot build enough prisions to put them in jail for longer periods of time. I think drugs users should only get time for drug rehibilitation if they are not caught doing another crime in the process. This would free up jails to put sellers of drugs in there for longer periods. Say 5 years 1st offense and 10 years second offense. Taking drugs is mostly a crime against oneself. Selling drugs is a crime against others.

It’s pretty obvious to tell which of you bleeding heart liberals are the offender types…. It’s too hard for you to cover-up, you are USERS….and these actions are only making you run scared…!!!

Wllmwltn, I do not take drugs. Not even medical drugs. I am more interested in health and herbal remedies. You just have no idea what you are talking about and fail to grasp the issue. A police state is not the answer to anything. It just enable government to turn to crime. Your views are short sited.

Judson, are you older than 14? I work inside at the bottom of the Criminal Justice System and I see no end in sight for the prosecution of drug offenders. When are we going to see that the “War on Drugs” is as lost as Iraq and we bail out of it and start TAXING it out of existence. After everyone gets through ass slapping and high fiveing each other over a busted SUSPECTED pot grower, fill me in on where it is written in the Constitution that Law Enforcement has the right to use any underhanded means at its disposal to catch potential criminals? Don’t know? Well, it was a trick question because the Constitution is there to protect EVERYONE from the vagaries of a runaway law enforcement community. Even if there were enough dots to connect this guy with a field of pot being grown, connect the dots before a magistrate to get the right credentials to pursue the matter further. Anyone can “What If” any situation into the ridiculous, but what if the location they tracked him to was simply the only spot he could find to cheat on his wife with his mistress? What then? Are all of you out there far too dense to comprehend the impact and implications of ANY enforcement agency which answers to no one higher than themselves. They decide independently what cases to look into and who gets investigated without any checks or balances. Does the name Gestapo bring to mind anything sinister or unwholesome from our recent past? Arrest without a warrant, warrantless searches of private property unlimited detainment and/or incarceration. You have to remember that the Constitution is there to protect the individual rights of sovereign citizens and not society as a whole as it is interpreted in today’s world. It protects ALL of us. Not just the ones we like or agree with. I thought that everyone had to take Civics 101 in school in order to graduate. Obviously, many of you skipped out on senior day the day of that final exam.

William,
Not to insult, but if what you say is true, and you are a lawyer, then how do we know whether we can believe what you say???

Joe, Great responce, You just created a new classic come back line!

William, I know many lawyers that are super people and they don’t lie.
My wife is one, she is so bloody honest it crazy.
By the way so to are both of my sister inlaw’s as well my brother inlaw, and countless friends to include our business lawyer’s are both very honest men. My long time friend takes barter, for payment from clients that can’t afford to pay, and by the way I would trust him with my life.

So No, not all lawyers are liers.

I do understand that many are such, but look to politicians for that honor of high class liers.

Beleive Georg Soros. He buys them to install as judges for protection of other puppets.

Quit trying to sound so intelligent,….go back to school and learn to spell correctly, you ignoramous @#$!&%*&..!