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Fahrenheit 450

September 9, 2010 by  

Fahrenheit 450

I remember the first time I read Ray Bradbury’s Fahrenheit 451. I was a prisoner in an 8th grade English class. I also knew I was going to be facing Ayn Rand and George Orwell, with Anthem and Animal Farm looming on the syllabus. The teacher was clearly working on a bit of a motif.

The only motif my teenage mind could discern was: “Truckload of homework.” The teacher was endeavoring to instill a more profound lesson: Literary and intellectual oppression is anathema to civilized society. For those of you who are victims of teachers’ unions: Burning books is stupid.

Burning books also doesn’t work. The anti-intellectualism of someone who would torch even Al Franken’s idiotic drivel deserves even less respect than the driveller himself. Don’t sell Al’s deepest thoughts short — there’s that wobbly leg on the coffee table, for instance. More to the point: From the Nazi Säuberung to the Fairness Doctrine, even short-lived victories in a war on knowledge always end up buried under a pile of either bodies or ballots (in the Fairness Doctrine example, a pile of Dennis Kucinich speeches).

During my internment in 8th grade English, I would gladly have siphoned gas out of my teacher’s Oldsmobile to assist an effort to rid us of the collected works of Bradbury, Rand and Orwell.

I was 13. What’s Terry Jones’s excuse?

Jones, the pastor of the incongruously-monikered Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., has announced that he and his congregants will be marking the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks by putting the Koran to the torch. Despite cautionary notes sounded by everyone from the local fire department to General David Petraeus, Jones is going ahead with his bonfire of the inanities. Jones says he and his congregation are making a statement about standing up to the forces of terrorism embodied by the Islamofacists who flew planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in rural Pennsylvania.

I say Jones is playing the part of a lowbrow Macbeth (bet Jones is no fan of Shakespeare, either). By throwing his pyrotechnic tantrum, he’s offering sound and fury, but signifying very little.

Standing up to the forces of extremism and stupidity by acting in an extremely stupid manner is… extremely stupid. I have perused the Koran and remain decidedly non-Muslim (it’s a bacon thing). Nor do I have any desire to set my copy on fire, because it’s a really nice leather bound edition and I am intelligent enough to read divergent doctrine and/or opinion without being overcome with the urge to reach for a lighter (or shop for a new vest in the Semtex department).

However, Jones and his flock burning the Koran won’t further inflame the hatred of those who venerate the 9/11 hijackers. Gainesville, Fla., is also home to the University of Florida. Give an Islamofascist an eyeful of what the Gator coeds are wearing on campus and the Dove World Outreach Center might as well festoon their building with flaming Suras.

“Akbar, did you see the church in Gainesville has burned the Koran?”

“I did, Mustafa. But did you see that girl outside the student union? I COULD SEE HER ARMS ABOVE THE WRISTS!”

“THAT’S IT! DEATH TO THE INFIDELS!!”

They’ve already drawn their proverbial line in the rubble. Besides, we’re already fighting them and have been for the better part of a decade. And for the millions of Muslims worldwide who want nothing to do with the Al-Qaida/Taliban brand of Islam, most are either smart enough to recognize crazy when they see it or will shake their heads with the same sad bewilderment which I feel every time Chris Matthews starts talking about Obama-induced tingling in his lower extremities.

I suppose I should note that liberals are — predictably — trying to cast Jones and his minions as members of the “religious right.” I should subsequently direct you to the aforementioned Fairness Doctrine for an example of who the Islamofascists’ kindred spirits are on this side of the pond.

The real issue here is that Terry Jones and the Dove World Outreach Centrists are morons, albeit morons basking in their 15 minutes of fame. They don’t represent the American people, so President Obama can scrap his latest apology to nations which stone women for flashing their ankles, and MSNBC’s “hosts” can stop wringing their hands.

If you burn books, you’re just an idiot — nothing more. If you’re concerned about idiots, look for the smoke, then walk the other way.

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • George

    We enjoy “Freedom of Speech”. Let these people so exercise freedom. However, the best thing we could do is ignore them. The more attention they get, the more it will inflate the egos involved with the act and in a way, lends credibility to the book burning cause.

    It also gives credibility to the terrorists we are fighting to consider them members of a religous group by any name. Yes, they claim a religion, but that is secondary. They are primarily barbarians and criminals who are determined to destroy western civilization by any means neccesary. How does Taliban obtain financial resources for arms? Is it not in part through drug traffic? We need to recognize and call them what they really are?

    • Viktor Leben

      George,

      They get money via OIL and OPIUM !! DOn’t forget that !

      • George

        Viktor,

        Good point! That was what I was pointing out. The drug issue is also proof that they are criminals/barbarians. The conflict or was is not only with us, but all of western civilization. It is not a religous conquest. That is a masquerade to provide legitimacy.The more this is understood, the better.

        George

  • FreedomFighter

    “If you burn books, you’re just an idiot — nothing more. If you’re concerned about idiots, look for the smoke, then walk the other way.”

    In America, idiots on all sides can make vulgar smoke signals, its called free speech.

    You dont have to like it, just recognize it for what it is, whatever it is.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Kate8

      I do not think Islam is worthy of our respect in America.

      Perhaps burning the Koran, for these people, is a symbol of OUR victory of Islam, just as their mosque is a symbol of victory over us.

      Personally, I think they need to be rooted out. At the very least, they should be given no special privilege. They cannot be allowed to gain power in America. Pandering to them is suicidal. To deny their own stated goal of Sharia is beyond stupid.

  • Angel Wannabe

    I get the melting pot in America, and if you call yourself an American, then our rules and regulations, Constitutions and Bill of Rights apply to all!_On one hand, Our kids aren’t allowed to pray in school anymore, school children on a day trip, are told to be quiet while singing a patriotic song at a National Memorial!__A kid with flags on his truck is told by school security to remove the flags.__
    On the other hand, Areas of cities across America, have been cordoned off, for street praying for Muslims, that’s OK with the authorities though?!. We have Imam’s insistence on building this Mosque on the foothill of 9/11.(Constitutional yes, is it right, not on your life!) I believe this to be a direct contemptible act against the people who lost loved there.__Question is, Why the absolute instance, of a mosque on this site?__And Why Imams unwillingness to move it?__He states there is a Mosque just 10 blocks away from this proposed site,(so get a cab and go ten blocks down) he also stated in the past, that America instigated the 9/11 attack, really?__ and now warns of dire consequences,if the Mosque is not built on the purposed site __I WOULD ASSUME, In retaliation of the Mosque, we have a Minister threatening to burn the Koran. Question here is, is this possible Koran burning a reality, or is the Obama media, trying to take the heat off the Messiah, with another diversion. Imam said, Dire consequences if this Mosque isn’t built. Was that a threat, or a temper tantrum to get his own way?___ANYONE??

    • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

      Threat.

      • Claire

        Threat?? I agree.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Most definately a THREAT!!!

      • http://naver samurai

        100% threat! If you come here to fight, come my way. Me and my M-16 are waiting for you. FOR GOD (not allah) AND COUNTRY!

    • Angel Wannabe

      Conservative at Birth and Claire, I don’t condone either action, but I don’t think we should be allowed to be threatened either.

      • Claire

        Iman no doubt is a threat. And I will not be threatened. Let him “back up” what he says–he’ll find out in a hurry how many Americans will not put up with his garbage. He will be in for a rude awakening.

      • 45caliber

        Claire!

        How can you say that! Everyone KNOWS that Americans are wimps and will back down from any threat! Just look at Iraq … well, maybe Afghanistan … ah, Iran? We NEVER back up any threat and are always willing to play safe. At least the libs do and they are the ones who run everything here. Right?

      • Claire

        45caliber– I never “ran” from anything. I am my Mother’s daughter. She always took the “bull by the horns” and met any obstacle head-on. She taught me to stand up for myself and to have confidence and not to be ashamed that we were poor. I remember being “picked on” when I was kid-because we were so poor. Other kids picked on me and my sisters at school. We had bullies way back then! I ran across my old report cards years ago–I weighed 40 pounds in the 5th grade! But I can honestly tell you I stood up for myself. I am proud of myself when I look back at those years. They didn’t call me “the scrapper” for nothing. I didn’t allow anyone to push me around. My Mother said I was as good as anyone else and I sure believed her!
        Seriously we have become weak in many ways and this has to stop. Now. I won’t go looking for trouble, but if it comes to me then it is a different story. I will do what I have to do for my freedom and equality.

      • Claire

        45caliber–I got on a tangent. I will answer your question. Yes, any time we have “gone” to war we should have cleaned house the moment we got there. This pussyfooting around has done nothing but prolong a miserable situation and the unnecessary loss of American lives. Sure, I should have compassion for other cultures, people, etc. but when it comes to America and all Americans, I say America and her people come first!! Always. Look at World War II—we did what we had to do and when Pearl Harbor was attacked, we did what we had to do. And by golly, the war ended. I think you understand what I am saying here.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Claire, You preach it Girl, I’m right there with ya!!!

      • Kate8

        Claire, how about running for office? We could use some people who know what they stand for, and won’t back down.

        It seems that the only people we get in office are those who are willing to sell their souls to get votes.

        BTW, I agree with you. Americans should come first. Whatever happened to the idea that when you move to a new land, you respect and honor the ways of that land? It’s like someone coming into your house and demanding that you change everything to suit them, and then demand that you move into the shed. Until they’re ready to use that, too.

        Islam should have no place in America. Sorry, but any culture which is diametrically opposed to everything on which our nation was founded, should have no place here. There was a time, before LBJ, that only cultures compatible with our American culture was allowed to immigrate here. Allowing them here had only one intent, and that was to degrade our own culture and break our American spirit.

      • Claire

        Kate8— LMAO!! I have to laugh, I am too old now I think to run for an office. Besides, I am not devious enough. And I do not have the “power.” I have to admit there has been a time or two I wish I would have gotten into politics. I could have raised some hell. But no one would vote for me! I would like for my son to run but he isn’t devious enough either.
        We do need people that have a backbone and will stand up for what they believe in and not sell their souls.
        And I have to say I wish there were no islams/muslims in this country. I wish a lot of things were different. It is up to all Americans to stand up and be counted. Literally.

      • Claire

        I re-read my own post—my Mother’s daughter—I know she is with God and in a better place but I cannot help but wish she was still here.

      • JeffH

        Angel Wannabe, amen to that.

      • Angel Wannabe

        JEFFH, What really p*sses me off is, that these Islamic suckers become Americans, and then use our Constitution, against us!

      • Jeff

        As the great Don King says; “only in America”…only in America does anyone have the right to slam this country and it’s citizens and recieve equal protection.

      • Jeep

        So, Jeff, if they succeed in bringing down America, I guess they’ll have to find someplace else to get the benefits of freedom, and hate it too? Isn’t there some psychological disorder to explain that? lol

    • tg7357

      don’t blame the Muslims for all that you were writing about: blame your government. The Muslims were just smart enough to use American law to their own benefit.
      Burning Korans and mosques isn’t the way to fight growing Islamic influence in America: changing the laws is. If your government won’t listen, then DUMP it and start over. Its coming down to that anyway.

      • Claire

        The administrations- past and present, have never stopped the islams/muslims from infiltrating America. Our border security did not do their jobs. Now we have another issue to deal with.

      • libertytrain

        Claire – sometimes I really have to almost question whether there really is some sort of plot going on beneath the surface or was government just even more inept than any of us ever realized for so very long…

      • Claire

        libertytrain–Probably a plot. I keep thinking of the NWO. Both parties are involved in the NWO-in the past and currently. LIberals and Republicans alike.

      • libertytrain

        perhaps… In weeks to come I’m going to do a little more exploring on my own with regards to these things. I do wish you and I could have a nice cup of tea or perhaps a strong cocktail :) and discuss all these things face to face -

      • JeffH

        libertytrain, ineptness for sure. NWO for sure. I do believe that ineptness does play an equal role in all of it. I certainly trust Claire’s experiences regarding the Muslims.

      • DaveH

        No plot, Liberty. It is the nature of people to feather their own nest. The politicians are just doing that. Jefferson knew the tendency of Government to grow out of control. He tried to warn us, but we slept.
        I have noticed throughout my life the tendency for the most screwed-up people to push their screwed-up ideas on other people. I think it gives them comfort in their own tortured minds if they can get other people to agree. Those are the people, I think, that are attracted to political positions.

      • Claire

        libertytrain–Me too. I will let you know my dog show schedule–maybe the week before Christmas at the Rosemont in Chicago?

      • libertytrain

        Claire – I’m just going to have to email you someday :) I don’t know about being up in Chi-town at that time of year but will be passing your area this weekend for another visit with dad.

      • Claire

        libertytrain–I will be home this weekend–here in Springfield. Other people have posted their email addresses on this site. I guess I can do the same. I’ll work something out.

      • libertytrain

        CLAIRE – DO NOT POST YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS – for your own safety and well-being.

      • Claire

        libertytrain–I won’t. After I posted and hit “submit” I thought I can’t post my email address! Like I said, I will figure something out.

      • tg7357

        You are absolutely right: since 1972 the American government has first-hand knowledge of the danger of fundamentalist Islamic terrorists, but did nothing. They did nothing but play politics when the hostages were taken in Iran, and did almost nothing during the first World Trade Center bombing. It took passenger jets flying into the Twin Towers for the government to finally scratch its collective head and say ‘Wow! Those guys don’t like us!” Now the problem is, its probably too late. The Feds have NO IDEA who is in this counrty, why they are here, and what they are going to do. The fundamentalists have had nearly 40 years to infiltrate every state, every city and every level of the government and military. Even if we stand up today as a nation, we are probably going to be fighting a loosing battle. The terrorists aren’t coming to AMerica: they are already here and they are better prepared for a crusade than we are, thanks to our dumb-a$$ government and our own complacency.

      • Claire

        tg7357–And you are correct with every word you say. This infiltration has been going on for years and the government did nothing to stop it. Yes, “they” are already here and no doubt in place for the ultimate takeover? There are numerous groups all over the US that play their war games out in the country, they are gearing up for something. I despise thinking this way, I probably sound like a radical but too much has happened over the course of many years and I have become very suspicious.

      • Cribster

        Islamberg, NY

        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510218,00.html

        I’m sure there are many more similar enclaves throughout America.

      • 45caliber

        tg:
        When you said the government was scratching its head and saying, “Those people don’t like us!” you missed the second sentence.

        They add: “We must have done something to make them mad at us so let’s appologize to them and give them some money.”

      • http://?? Joe H.

        tg7357,
        It may be a losing battle, but if you remember your history, we are at our best, militarily, when we are fighting a losing battle!! Americans don’t know the meaning of losing battle. Even VietNam, even though we left, we won every major battle we were in over there and even though we took casulties, we inflicted far more on our enemy!

      • Kate8

        Claire, It was in the ’70s when I first noticed that all the motels and mini-marts were being taken over by Muslims. All of a sudden, they seemed to be everywhere. Prior to that, you never saw them.

        It was LBJ who signed the document opening up America to the Third World.

      • Claire

        Kate8–I remember about 10 years ago, we went to Wisconsin for a dog show–had to stay overnight of course. The motel we checked into was decent-looking from the street plus the fact it was close to the dog show site. Went to the front desk, paid for a room, and I could tell right then and there that the people were muslims. He wore a turban and she was covered up like an eskimo and it was summer. Plus the pictures on the wall were a dead giveaway. Anyway, we parked, unlocked the room, it was shabby looking, and then I looked in the bathroom. There was standing water on the floor. Needless to say, we walked out of that room, went to the front desk and asked for our money back. They would not give it to us. My husband was pissed and he told them we would not stay in that room let alone take our dogs in. They told us they would call the police if we did not leave. So we left and went to another place. We learned a bitter lesson that night. From then on we stayed at a Comfort Inn, Red Roof Inn, Holiday Inn, etc. whenever we traveled.
        Muslims do own a lot of businesses. It is scary. The handwriting is on the wall as so to speak.

      • Karolyn

        Kate – I hate to disappoint you but most of those people taking over the gas stations and mini marts were and are not Muslims. They’re Hindu.

    • Dr. Mabuse

      It was more than a threat…
      It was an ultimatum…

    • 45caliber

      Angel:

      They want a mosque at this site because they ALWAYS build a mosque at the site of any victory against the infadels. And, to them, this is a victory over the mighty US.

      • Angel Wannabe

        MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY 45!

      • Kate8

        The Muslims, themselves, told us that the Cordoba site is a symbol of victory for Islam over America.

        And then we are told that we are bigots and intolerant when we object!

        I am absolutely sick of the lying, conniving, twisting, and denigrating of the American people being put forth by this government, and especially this administration.

      • JeffH

        Kate8, unfortunately we’re at a point in our history where we have to fight the Marxist/socialist/communist/liberal progressives as well as the muslim extremists with the pen and the sword just to keep our noses above water and maintain a little dignity. I just thank God for all of you fellow patriots.

      • Karolyn

        Kate – Can you show us where they said that? I don’t believe it. I also cannot believe that you would treat a Muslim child as less than an animal either.

    • Viktor Leben

      The Constitution is dead. The voters killed it. The Federal oligarchy/plutocracy now rules …..

      Please wake up everybody. It’s dead and ain’t coming back ….

  • Bruce D.

    Just as building the Mosque on ground Zero is not smart either is burning the Koran. Both have the right to do but both are creating anger and animosity by doing it. It takes a lot of guts to burn the Koran in a public forum. You put your life at risk. I give him credit for that if he feels that strongly about it. Many Muslims think nothing about killing for God. Many are dissatisfied with their life and killing for God is a sure way for them to get to heaven in their own mind. Maybe sometime down the road we will be so afraid of Muslims killing for God that we will allow them to dictate our personal liberty. Isn’t that what they are trying to accomplish?

    • Pathfinder

      NO!!! They have no right to build any mosque anywhere on American soil. Not only should this “Cordoba House” not be built; ut all mosques on American soil should be destroyed. There should be only as many mosques here as there are synogogues in Mecca.

      • Bruce D.

        That is an odd thing to say. It must be an emotional belief or a religious belief. It certainly isn’t a legal opinion.

      • eddie47d

        Looks like Pastor Terry has set us all up. A few of you have fallen all over him like he is Christ himself. He went to the media so he is the one looking for attention.He wants a firestorm and some of you are willing to give it to him. Shades of Nazism for sure. Does this pastor of a small church represent 300 million Americans? We’ll see!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        edduhh47DUHHs!
        both have the right to do what they wish. but you say it is wrong to burn the koran as it will offend the muslims, but it is not wrong for them to build the mosque because it will offend the Christians AND many of the families of 9/11. By your train of thought(or lack of it) we should be aware of their feelings, but they shouldn’t be aware of ours. One question. WHY??!?!?!?

      • JeffH

        Joe H., you know darn well a “rock” can’t think, let alone somewhat normally.

      • eddie47d

        Joe H and Jeff; We can all play the nasty name game so bring it on. I stated over a week ago that they could legally build the Mosque but would be better to move it somewhere else. Maybe you 2 should think instead of acting like that Rock.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Because we are vastly more civilized than the muslim cretins. They’re stuck on the first limb of the evolutionry tree.

      • Viktor Leben

        Eddie

        If we are no longer a Christian Nation then we better take every advantage we can get to survive !

        No more Mr. Nice Guy !!!

        Let the liberals fight the wars in the Middle East .. We have to conserve our Christian children, so they can reproduce and outnumber those who voted for Obama !!

        I remember on the Michael Moore movie – Fahrenheit 9/11 – when he had a Marine recruiter asking a Congressman to sign up his children – to fight in Iraq !!! You should have seen the look on the COngressman’s face !!!!

        Face it everyone. We are no longer a christian nation. Tolerance will not be forthcoming from the majority. The Christians were the founders ! The only good thing CHrisitians are for is cannon fodder in the US military to fight the Power Elite’s wars ….

      • eddie47d

        Then stop supporting these wars.

      • coal miner

        eddie47d,

        Joeh and Jeffh think?Their brains are located south of the belt line,front or backwards,take your pick.HA HA HA

      • http://?? Joe H.

        coal dunger,
        If that’s true then get your nose out of the back of my brain!!!! HaHaHa!!

    • 45caliber

      Bruce:
      Yes, they are. The problem is that our traditions and laws favor them building there. And they believe, like many people in other countries, that the US is wimpy and Americans NEVER follow through. Further, the ONLY way they can be guanteed a place in heaven is by killing infadels.

      What is really sad is that this entire concept was NOT taught by Mohammed. It was taught by his nephew after the rest of the Muslem world kicked him out. He also came up with Paradise. He was the original creator of the assassins. He tried to control that entire region (Turkey and south) by killing the leaders and threatening their heirs. If any of his assassins were killed, they were promised Paradise, liquor, and all the women they could want.

      Somehow I believe that a number of those he promised were waiting for him when he died.

      • Kate8

        45, Mohammad’s armies killed plenty of people who didn’t want to embrace his new religion.

        In any case, there have been numerous times Christians have been denied permits to build churches in certain areas in America (in recent times) because for whatever reason they were not wanted there. It has happened in the area where I live.

        Don’t forget, the Orthodox Church which stood there at Ground Zero and was destroyed on 9/11 has been denied the right to rebuild since it happened.

        But Islam gets special privilege, and we’re told they have the right to insult us. Over and over this government makes it clear that Americans are no longer heard in America.

  • del

    No one would even care if Jones was planning to burn any other book. Are we allowing fear of retaliation from these violent extremists to influence our thinking on this? Believe it or not, the extremists are in control. They are dictating what we can and can not do in our own country. They are using the threat of violence to get what they want. Before they said the “Ground Zero Mosque” would build bridges between religious groups. On the news this morning they’re saying it could provoke violence if we do not allow it’s construction.

    • Pathfinder

      There is one very good reason to remove all of our troops from the middle east. We do not want to expose our troops to the blast and radiation when our nukes land. Both Mecca and Medina should glow in the dark at night. We should feel free to add more targets to the list as suits us. It is time to wipe all Islam from the face of the earth.

    • Claire

      del–I will tell you this–I am not afraid of any islam/muslim. Just let them “try” anything with me concerning my family, my home and America. I will not put up with any crap from them. Let them come, I’m ready. My entire family is ready. I will not tolerate any backlash from this cult.

      • JeffH

        Claire, as you’ve stated many times before, with your line of work comes a complete understanding of the Muslim mindset as dictated by the Quran…I’m with you.

      • Claire

        JeffH–I kid you not–the stuff I have edited regarding textbooks on terrorism is enough to make a person’s hair curl. They are an abomination. Sorry, but this is how I feel. And I will never think or believe otherwise. The cruelty is beyond belief.

      • Jeff

        Claire, you have no reason to be apologetic.

      • Claire

        Jeff–Thanks!

  • dan

    I appreciate that…but when do we,in good faith,defend the innocent from the sword of the unrighteous? I’d just as soon the Creator settle
    this little fracus…but I’m willing to let the Holy Spirit lead the
    way.Love thy enemy but first disarm/neutralize his ability to do harm…
    and if that means isolate him in the dessert/sand box,round them up and give them ALL a big time-out!

    • Pathfinder

      Kill them all. Let God sort them out.

  • Richard

    Had a missionary to Egypt in our church last week. I was surprised to hear that in Egypt where under 0.5% of the population is Christian that whenever the believers organize to buy land and build a Christian church (place of worship) the government always buys up the adjoining property and builds a mosque. It was antagonizing to hear that the mosques loud speakers are then aimed at the church and the Koran is read (literally shouted)in an attempt to disrupt services. Prayers are 5 times a day starting at 5:00AM with the last at 10:00PM so you can only imagine how disruptive this becomes. Government sponsored religion…. and yet we are the ones viewed as intolerant?

    • 45caliber

      Wait until the mosque is built. Then they will block the traffic to the 911 site so their prayers of thanksgiving can be heard five times a day.

      • Viktor Leben

        45Caliber,

        It seems the people opposed to this Coroba community center won’t tolerate the constant noise !?? Or will they ? I have a hunch mass rioting may break out in NYC if this happens. Or am I being optimistic ?

        Prez Obama is right, we are not a christian nation, and the mosque probably will be built.

        I read on the internet Pastor Jones struck a deal with the moslems. If they call off building the mosque on/near ground zero Pastor Jones will not burn the Koran …

        Just a bunch of hype. To get us to stick our necks out for rest of the Americans who (the majority) who voted Obama into office.

        All you peole who voted Obama into office, I’m not going to die for you ! It’s my life ! If you want to live then defend yourselves! I’m not going to defend you liberals anymore !!!

        Pastor Jones — BURN THEM KORANS !

        Did all you people notice Hilary Clinton when she commented on this topic ? SHE WAS AT A CFR MEETING !!!

  • TIME

    Folks this is a twin edged sword with an edge so sharpe on both sides that its visceral meanings run so deep as to give rise to logic from both sides of the playing field, yet ~ its little more than a “Power Play” for Political gain by way of more “MEDIA PLAY”.
    How much Market Share can one build for thier sides point of view.

    This event is Carthitic to many, yet Bombastic to others.
    Yet we as Americans are rooted in the term “FREEDOM” Thus within that said term there is a vast amount of room.
    Such as with “Real and True Freedom” {one must allow for all events no matter what level of inward or outward feelings one may have about said event.}

    Thus we are bound by the very meaning of the word “FREEDOM” to allow our selfs to be offended by others acts, no matter how the level of expression may effect us.

    Thus the very “preversion” of the word FREEDOM begins by allowing one group to opress or otherwise hold down the other group. (MANS LAWS)

    Thus all feeling of respect are then lost within the haze of both hate as well Rhetoric, the end results are the preversions of others feelings as well their rights being sullied.

    We see this clearly from the point of those that feel that a Cult such as Islam is allowed to build a place that’s alledged to be based in PEACE, such as the “Cordoba Center” on nearly the very sight of where almost 3000 Americans were killed on 9/11 2010 by “Extree Cult Based Zealots” who don’t believe in any forms of “FREEDOM” that is other than what a small band of what ever tribe is in power at the moment.
    And please do keep in mind they will kill each other at the drop of a hat.

    But be that as it may, its the double standards that have been fostered by our “POLITICAL Cults” from the very onset of all “Political Cults.” “MANS LAWS” to Repress others.

    The very reason our two partys can’t seem to produce logical and or rational policy’s.
    They feel that to impliment laws based on the “lowest common denominator” also known as LCD; makes the laws of the land a level playing field.
    When in fact its really quite the opposite effect that will happen.
    And thats LOGICAL to anyone who has gray matter or understands the word, “FREEDOM.”

    Democrats want to control your lifes by lies and out right deceit and force if needed. All the while telling you its for “your own good,” and it aids others who have less, that are not willing to do anything but sit back and let someone else do the work.

    Republicans want to do the same thing but do it with more sugar on it rather than RAM it up your backsides with a pole and tell you its ok because they said so like the Democrats method of role model.

    Thus we come back to the word “FREEDOM” This is a strong word with vast meaning. But only when its applied by the RULING party of the moment.
    So its meaning can change within a split second, thats with out the aid of Cults or the bent logic of what the Media spin as well outright supports at the moment, thats only for what ever level of Ratings they are looking for to “grow their Market Shares.”
    In plain words the media could care less what the effects are as long as they get their MONEY! The Media is Da HO’ for bucks.

    So whats the end result, Frustration to anyone whos not within the frame work of when the ruling powers allow the ” Lowest Common Denominators” to always have the most visible and protected outcome.

    Thats whats called creating a problem so one can then create a fix to said problems to make the ruling powers look good.
    Well after a while this behavior breaks the back of either one side or the other.

    So When that happens events such as what we see in the HO’ media unfold daily as the highlites of the moment are most visible such as these very event’s.

    Do I feel either side is right? ( No,) thus there should not be a CORDOBA Center, as well the burning of a book, be it no better than that of what a CULT, are both 100% wrong, as they both impinge each others FREEDOM on a equaly footing.

    If we as a nation would hire Advocates to do their jobs with out all the “self serving rhetoric” both of these issues would be non issues.

    Can I make it any more clear.
    {Do to others as YOU wish DONE to you.}

    • Warrior

      Agreed, but airtime must be filled with something between Lindsey Lohan updates.

    • Dr. Mabuse

      OK, You’re correct when identify The Hegelian dialetic, Problem – Reaction -Solution, but as a tacit response to all that you’ve said:
      If there’s anyone thats gonna wield a double edge sword I would prefer it to be the Americans.

  • Kimberly Boldt

    I shout “bravo!” to this pastor who has the guts to take a stand in this country of cowards and pacifists! Our education system AND our churches have succeeded in dumbing down Americans to the point where hardly anyone reads the Bible or the Constitution and documents of the Founding Fathers anymore. This IS this man’s natural right protected by the Constitution to burn the Qur’an and take a political stand.

    This whole idea that somehow this pastor is going to ignite more terrorism by burning a book is completely bogus!

    Did not God say, “thou shall have no other gods before him”? And did he not also say we are not to honor the customs and practices of the heathen nor allow them in our land?”

    I’m getting really tired of “real” Americans being labeled as “extremists”. By your standards, Ben, the Founding Fathers would be labeled extremists today. Or have you forgotten the Boston Tea Party when Sam Adams and friends dumped hundreds of thousands of pounds of tea in the Boston Harbor at a current market value of $3 million dollars as a political protest!? By your standards Jesus Christ himself would be labeled an “extremist”!

    What is wrong with Americans today? Where is the courage of the Founding Fathers? Where’s the courage of Christians in being willing to die for their beliefs? Jesus was no pacifist. He made himself a whip and drove the moneychangers out of the temple while shouting and overturning tables. He pointed out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and Sadducees. He instructed his disciples to be armed.

    It’s time for the men of this country to “grow a pair” and stand up!

    Freedom of Religion was meant for multi-denominational Christianity. The Founders honored no other gods beside the God of Christianity. They honored no other religions beside Christianity. Read The Federalist No. 2 where John Jay specifically points this out.

    While Christians are being persecuted now in their own country and their natural rights taken away, we now honor heathen religions and their gods? The Founding Fathers are turning in their graves now.

    Shame on you Ben, for your arrogance and your distain for real Americans! I suggest you read the Bible, the Constitution, The Federalist, and the letters of the Founding Fathers.

    It’s time we ALL take a stand, or do we love communism and the Muslim religion so much we’ll succumb to them both?

    • Pathfinder

      Amen, brother. One of the funny things is that we could even “get away with” being tolerant of a number of non-christian faiths; but how are we supposed to tolerate a “religion” which has declared war (jihad) on us ? Jews, Buddists, Hindus, and even Druids live among us in peace. But, none of those beliefs has a doctrine of religious war (jihad) against all others. For this reason, Islam is the one religious system which should not be tolerated. ISLAM DELENDA EST!!

      • DaveH

        You have a good point there, Pathfinder.

    • Viktor Leben

      Kimberly,

      The year now is 2010, not 1776. We have elected a President who has declared in his inauguration, that we are not a christian nation. Today is a different time.

      What you are saying is “Let the Christian minority save the day for the non-Christian majority !!!”

      Why not sit back and let them all destroy themselves ? The American majority that voted Obama in, do they deserve to be saved from Islam ?

  • Robert Smith

    Let’s see… Kill the non believers. Sounds kinda familiar to me.

    Anyone up for a good inquisiiton or crusade?

    Let’s see if we can find a basis for them in christian words.

    Some Christian words:

    I am the Lord thy God, … Thou shalt have no other gods before me.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long.Thou shalt not kill.Thou shalt not commit adultery.Thou shalt not steal.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.<<>>Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house.

    Goes to the issue of stealing. Common sense. But then selfish desire is at the root of capitalism. Oh my… Where is the line drawn?

    Rob

    • Robert Smith

      Again it looks like technology ate a bunch of my post.

      Out of time for now though.

      Rob

      • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

        That is a good thing. Your thoughts are not worth reading.

      • DaveH

        And selfish desire isn’t at the heart of Socialism, Robert?
        I’ll tell you where we draw the line – Voluntary Contracts. Not the Forced Contracts that Liberals want to push on us. If you think the Corporations are getting unfair advantage (they may be), then level the playing field, get the government out of the marketplace, and give the power back to the consumer. In other words, Free Markets.
        I have never been forced to buy a product by any Corporation. The same can’t be said for Big Government.
        And if you think the Corporations are charging too much, you would be free to start your own companies and give away your product. It would be easy since Liberals are so much more intelligent than the rest of us.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Well done DaveH!!!

      • http://naver samurai

        I second that motion!

    • Pathfinder

      Dear Rob : The idea that selfish desire (greed) is the basis for capitalism, is a communist lie. I am sorry that you have fallen for it. Capitaism is no more based on greed than a hearth to heat one’s home is based on arson. Rather, both are based on controling and harnessing an otherwise destructive force and causing it to serve a benign purpose. Just as the stove harnesses the destructive power of fire to cook food and warm the home; so capitalism harnesses the vice of avarice and channels it so that those who best serve their neighbors needs and wants are rewarded with material gain. Thus, we have businesses serving the public, rather than thieves plundering the fruits of their neighbor’s labor.

      • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

        Which is what Communism/Socialism is. Forced Slavery.

    • DaveH

      And Robert, I guess that you are an expert on theft, being a Liberal.
      Let’s see, I have a choice between spending my own money, or having a Liberal spend it for me. Duh, what should I do?
      I am so afraid of all the responsibility it takes to make my own choices. NOT!

      http://mises.org/daily/4125

    • Kate8

      “Selfish desire is a the root of capitalism”.

      So, Bob, you think communism, socialism or fascism is a better idea? Where those at the top have everything, live like kings, take what we’ve worked for and make us all equally poor slaves? Where we are allowed to exist only at the pleasure of government? Where we are utterly without hopes and dreams, and the pursuit of happiness?

      Do people like you even think about what you are saying? Do you really think that government has your best interests as their priority?

      How can freedom exist without the natural human right to succeed (or fail)?

      There were laws put in place against monopolies, in order to prevent the corporatist takeover we see today. It is not capitalism that is to blame, it is the manipulations and machinations of those desiring to remove freedom from humanity who are behind this mess.

  • Mark

    I spit in the face of those that want to protect this koran comic book and its leather binding. I spit in the face of the obama liar and his puppets. I spit in the face of Soros and those that financially support barry soetoro. In the middle east they spit on us, burn our flag, and the Bible, the Word of God, is not allowed. So just why are we allowing this comic book koran in the United States. I say burn, burn them all, and burn their flags, and if it endangers our troops, they should be ready, maybe this would draw out the taliwhackers into the open so that our brave troops could dispose of their cowardly butts. I hope these muslims drown in pig saliva, and anyone that supports them dies a horrendous death. Burn them books preacher.

    • Pathfinder

      Thank you, Mark. At least I won’t be alone when it is time to fight. Hopefully, there will be plenty more like us to fight the Isamofascists when we encounter them here on our own soil.

      • flyguy

        Pathfinder, you are not alone. I and many others are very well prepared to defend what is ours.
        Semper Fi

      • Claire

        Pathfinder–Believe me, you are not alone in your stand against this cult.

      • JeffH

        One positive to burning the Quran book is that one less book will make it into the American classroom.
        Oh, I’m with you all too.

    • Wayne Billings

      I’m with you Mark,this has nothing to do with burning books.This is not a religion it is a movement.It should be outlawed

  • Pathfinder

    Need I point out, to those who worry about burning the Koran inciting the Moslems to violence, that the Moslems already are violent. How many Korans had we burned prior to 9/11 ? When a bully has already hit you; at least get the satisfaction of spitting in his eye. And, if possible, kick him in the “nads” as well.

    So, go ahead, burn the Koran. And, don’t stop there. Burn mosques and moslems as well. The war (jihad) has already been declared. Let’s start hitting back hard.

    • Dr. Mabuse

      Well as far as 9/11 goes, I think the question should be how many Torahs and Talmuds did we burn.

  • KM

    I believe that the troops are already in harms way as a result of the restrictive and unrealistic ROE (Rules of Engagement) that hamper the effectiveness of most of the maneuver units on the ground in Afghanistan. I have spent years here and the ‘political correctness’ generated by the likes of obama and clinton have rendered most units ineffective in the; pursue, capture, kill mode. Burning the koran, or anything else for that matter, isn’t going to change a thing on the ground. The locals are tired of our presence and would rather live under TB rule (because the TB are muslims) than to operate under “Infidels” rule (they believe that we are occupiers, not partners in any venture). We have not been able to significantly crush the TB, courtesy of a CinC who has never been in uniform, hates the military in general, and pushes (for purely political reasons) unrealistic ROE down to the troops in the field. The only thing being accomplished here these days is tax payer money being thrown at people who hate us. Afghans (in general) prefer a life style that mimics that of the 7th Century. Democracy is an abstraction here for these people. Tribal law rules…terrain dictates that…and it always has. If we are in a war, let us fight it…if not, let’s pull out. Book burning is insignificant in the day to day affairs of soldiers and Marines. Tempest in a tea cup.
    This place is hopeless…and the locals like it that way. Those of you that have been here know what I am talking about. Congressional Deligations see this place as if they were looking through the a straw. When they do show up they do not venture outside of the Embassy, and do not spend any time on the ground. They make recomendations based on that view, and those short timelines. To see them worked up over koran burning is nothing short of funny. Go ahead..burn the books, it won’t change a thing here.

    • Cribster

      My gut instinct lurched in the wrong direction when I heard General Petraeus make his statement, the initial gut reaction is almost 99% correct. His statement felt “political” and not general-like.

      Then I tried to analize his statement rationally and it still wasn’t adding up. Just as you said, the rules of engagement have been getting our soldiers killed for years and he’s worried about a Koran burning? Aren’t they trying to kill us anyway?

      Maybe burning the Koran would bring more of the disingenuous peace pretneders out in the open to face our forces rather than ambushing us later.

      • Bob

        I guess killing hundreds of thousand of women and children is OK but burning a book is not.

      • http://naver samurai

        Only if you are a terrorist, moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        samurai,
        Good thing those terrorists have never killed any kids, huh?

      • LocalYokel

        Gen. Petraeus is obviously politically correct and therefore not able to employ military strategy that has always been 100% effective against muslims. But that would be considered profiling. Political correctness and longevity go hand in hand at his level.
        Ask George Patton.

    • LocalYokel

      If they decide to react to any defamation of Islam the fire will be fanned from the top down, not from the bottom. Yet those that carry their torch will always come from a wannabe trash heap looking for a short cut to paradise. Any body else have free tickets with “seven virgins” ratings for their trip?

  • American

    Muslims have been burning Bibles for years because they know how offensive it is to Christians but Christians aren’t supposed to burn the koran for fear of offending muslims? Those violent defenders of sharia law are like dogs…they can smell fear…and fear is what this country shows when we allow them to do to us and then cower behind the progressive mindset that we’re tolerant. They see we are weak against them because no matter what they do to us, no matter how much ground they gain in our country, we don’t want to offend them and we give them more ground. However, I don’t think this burning party should take place. If this had not been publicized so thoroughly beforehand there would be little fallout after the fact. Yet the MSM has sensationalized this to the point that now, if it goes through, it will be seen as an instigation to violence. The reverend now feels compelled to stick to his guns in the face of this media attack so he’s not going to back down and the muslim community will see it as another reason to perpetrate violence against us.

  • Flynn

    “By throwing his pyrotechnic tantrum, he’s offering sound and fury, but signifying very little.” What are the Islamofascists signifying? Also, very little! Although I am not in favor of burning books either, we shouldn’t take away from Pastor Jones and his church the right to do it. This is true especially of any books of a religious nature because (Who knows?), they may be from God, Like Mr. Jones has said, they are simply making a statement, and that statement should be made. If the Islamofascists can’t stand such a statement, or they don’t like such a statement, or their ideas fail because of it, then so be it. The war against the principalities of darkness will continue.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Flynn,
      They can’t stand it because their belief system is weak!!! If their belief system was strong we couldn’t insult it any way!!!

  • Wally Pieper

    Amen Cribster. You have stated my thoughts better than I could.

    Wally Pieper

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U2n-RxUh48 infidel-Bob

    Regardless of your position, everyone knows that this will be worse than the Khartuun’s. (The “Cartoons” caused death and riots world-wide, 3 months later that is, when the Eemahms got no satisfaction from the Danish Gumit.) The Elephant in the room that isn’t discussed, even here: The Religion of Peace will again show it’s true colors,[Terry Moran's said: "There could very well be a gun battle out here"] but even then the Progressive Fellow Travelers will not acknowledge the fact that appeasement didn’t work with Hitler, and it’ll not work with Fundamental Moslems. If only 2% hold literal interpretations of the teaching of their prophet, that’s about 30 Million. There is a principle in Islam known as Takiya, the right to fake peace when you are weak for the purposes of defeating your enemy when you are stronger. This is Taught in the 10yr long treaty known as the Truce of Hudaybiyah
    Oh, by the way, 2 years into that treaty,

    Kill the disbelievers [non-moslems] wherever we find them. (Sura 2:191)

    The infidels are your sworn enemies. (Sura 4:101)

    Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. (Sura 9:123)

    Prophet, make war on the infidels. (Sura 66:9)

    “After all who speaks of the Armenians?”: – 1939 – Adolf Hitler

    • dan

      Thanks for the refresher…it’s been a long time since I studied and rejected the Koran as a rip-off of the Bible…and most don’t seem to realize that the Koran is not Holy but denies the devinity of Jesus
      (Yashua H’ Machia/God with us) and is ANTI (i.e.: instead of) Christ (i.e.:the annointed)
      as is Mustafa the profit.Perhaps M.Jones will avail himself of this opportunity to bring light to the deceived.
      …of course if Sharia would shut Pelozi,Brower,Brower and all the rest of the femi-nazis….

      • eddie47d

        So,Dan do you have your own secret desire to force sharia law on certain people of your choosing?

      • Jeff

        In your case fast eddie “stupid is as stupid does” applies.

        com·pre·hend [ kòmprə hénd ] (past and past participle com·pre·hend·ed, present participle com·pre·hend·ing, 3rd person present singular com·pre·hends)

        Definition:
        1. transitive and intransitive verb understand: to grasp the meaning or nature of something
        It was hard to comprehend the sheer scale of the problem.

        2. transitive verb include something: to include something as a part of a larger whole ( formal )

        [14th century. < Latin comprehendere "grasp fully" < prehendere "seize"]

      • eddie47d

        I comprehended his comment nicely and too bad you didn’t. Go back to licking on that salt block,Thanks.

    • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

      The Quran is a handbook for a military leader to enforce discipline and nothing else.

  • Greg

    25% of “mainline Islam” admit to at least passively support suicide bombing. Their goal is to destroy Western Civilization, impose Sharia law and kill or enslave all infidels. Ignore this at your own risk. Historically, every pacifist society on earth has been wiped out.

    • Robert Smith

      Hi Greg: >>> Historically, every pacifist society on earth has been wiped out.<<<

      Ummmmm, like Germany, Japan, the Vikings, the Romans… Each and all who had the military stuffing kicked out of them.

      On the other hand Switzerland has done well. Is the Vatican a pacifist society? They were once asked how many troops they had. How did that turn out?

      Rob

      • Don Walker

        Switzerland is not pacifist. It has a military with compulsory service for all able body males. Switzerland is neutral. The survival of Switzerland as a neutral country depends on natural protection by geography and that nobody wants it badly enough to invade and take over.

        An interesting point – Swiss military members are required to keep a specific set of weapons at home. The crime rate is probably rather low. So, why invade when virturally every house is going to have a gun with someone willing to use it.

      • independant thinker

        Here is an incident that supposedly happened between a German General and a Swiss general. The German made the statement that if he invaded Switzerland with a 5 million man army against their 1 million man army what would the Swiss do. The Swiss general replied our troups would each fire 5 shots then we could return home. The implication being the Swiss were so well prepared that was all that would be needed to defeat the Germans.

        The weapon the Swiss are required to keep at home is their small arm that they carried while on active duty whether pistol, rifle, or maching gun. And, the Swiss crime rate is very low.

      • katy b

        RE: THE SWISS – virually everyone in Switz-land is armed – as they were all in military at some point in time – and do keep their arms when released. correct me if wrong.

    • Pathfinder

      The only good moslem is a dead moslem. Kill them all and let God sort them out.

      • Dr. Mabuse

        I thought that was the only good Indian, etc.
        However, applying the same philosphy of massacre and decimation will probably be the only way out after all this sabre rattling stops.
        Buckle up and grab your #$%#!%&^, its on like Donkey Kong… LOL…

      • Karolyn

        You are a sick m-f’er. why don’t you just go out and find yourself a sweet little Muslim kid and put a bullet in his head? Where did your ancestors come from? We are all God’s children. Are you an atheist? that’s OK if you are – just asking.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        karolyn,
        And God tells you to call people sick m-fers??? I don’t think so!!!

      • Karolyn

        Ooooh. I guess I better wash my mouth out with soap. Using profanity certainly does not compare with talk of killing people. I think that might be higher on the list of “bad” things. Besides, why would God care about words. Actually, I spoke the truth. anybody who talks of taking lives like it’s a lak really is a sick m-f’er.

  • Christopher51

    “We the Sheeple” have been warned! We have been warned that there will be severe repercussions if we, (A) Burn the Quran: (B) If we don’t allow the building of a Mosque at Ground Zero. Are we to be held hostage on our own soil? I, for one, am extremely tired of third world cretins dictating terms: That goes for most of western Europe as well.
    Bush screwed the pooch, so-to-speak. 9/11 Was a Tuesday morning. By that Friday, that entire area of the world should have been turned into an ashtray. This would then be a moot point.
    Make no mistake people, they will rise up… en masse, if push comes to shove. That’s more that I can say for us. Make no bones about it, these cretins were dancing in the streets on 9/11.
    May God have mercy on us all.
    The Holy Bible tells me to forgive. Some day I might. I will not, however, ever forget. 9/11, I know. I was there!
    Laus Deo

    • Pathfinder

      Even God, himself, does not forgive the unrepentant. Have you seen any repentance from the Moslems ??

      • LocalYokel

        Not a one, since in their beliefs the only unpardonable sin is desecration of the Quo’ran and indoctrination heals all others

      • Karolyn

        God forgives everybody!!

  • Cribster

    Muslims in France (I believe most are illegal aliens) block streets five times a day for prayers. Even though it’s against the law the police are told to stand down. Why? Because if they try to enforce the law and remove the rude savages from the streets all Hell will break loose.

    That’s what comes from tiptoeing around Muslims.

    Radical Islam is a global virus! Stop installing footbaths in schools and airports. Stop catering to supermarket cashiers that won’t handle pork in hermetically sealed packages, stop reorienting toilets to face Mecca. Burn the damn Koran in America just as someone would, as repugnant as it would be, burn the Bible, burn and stomp the American flag.

    Islam keep gaining ground because of fear of retaliation. I’m beyond sick of the daily demands from Muslims and everyone backing down due to fear and hypersensitivity.

    • Mike Austin,TX

      You are exactly right. When they act this way, it is like a bully in the schoolyard. If he does not listen to reason, you MUST fight back or forever be a victim. Or, you are part of the problem that leads the bully to victimize others. Let’s all be part of the solution.

    • Bob

      Cribster Where do you get your information about the Muslims blocking streets in France?

    • Nilsson

      Cribster… I totally share your opinion about Islam. Let’s burn the Qu’ran, let’s increase the resentment between them and the West and let’s get ready for the 21st Century Crusades. This time around the Christians can use smart bombs, and the Muslims can use dirty bombs and Iran’s nukes. Maybe a little biological warfare too. Are you ready to rumble??

      • Cribster

        Indeed! I’m working on a pork launcher as we speak. ;)

      • LocalYokel

        Where will you stand when the line is drawn in the dust and all intimidation has failed?

  • http:/lindysattic.com Marshall

    Hmmm, Ben Crystal wrote an excellent piece. I have not read Fahrenheit 451. My 8th grade time served was 1966. I did read Orwell in High School. So, “Ending IS better than mending” In certain respects. Old socks…sure, end em. Old cars…nope! Rebuild em. Friendships with most of the crazy world…end them for sure! I guess I need to read more.. Thanks Ben

  • tg7357

    I think General Petreaus is concerned because of the knife-edge our troops are living on in Afganistan. There are a lot of devout Muslims in that country and in Pakistan both that are not involved one way or the other with us or Al Queda or the Taliban. I think he’s worried that this kind of inflammatory gesture will bring a lot of the neutrals in on the side of the bad guys. The Muslims rever the Koran as the unabridged, unedited words of Mohammed, and I can respect their beliefs as such. Burning any religion’s revered writings is a show of ignorance, and that includes Muslims who burn Bibles. The books are not the problem: its the twisting of the words in them by fundamentalists thats the crux of the whole problem.
    Does that minister have the right to burn those Korans? Yes, he does.
    But if he really wants to protest the encrouchment of Islam into America, he needs to demonstrate in front of a mosque or hold a rally somewhere and speak his piece. From what I see, the man has found a novel way to commit suicide, because he will be a marked man if he goes through with this. Muslims don’t tolerate their own disrespecting their religion. Unless the good Rev was planning on become a martyr to Christianity all along with this, he’s about to make a real poor judgement call.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      tg7357…
      There are many who are ‘speaking their piece’ but it seems like this reaction to the mosque is not making any dent in their plans. Rev. Jones is going to the extreme. What he is trying to do is raise awareness of those who are not currently opposing the mosque and he doesn’t want to let anyone forget what happened on 9/11. He may be crossing a line with his idea if he goes through with it, but now that the public knows it will be doubtful that he will back down. Would a Muslim back down if the situation were reversed?

      • tg7357

        You’re talking about 2 different motivations where. Rev Terry won’t back down because the media won’t let him. He’s getting his 15+ minutes of fame, and MSLSD and CNNDenial are egging him on with this.
        I don’t know if he really believes in what he’s doing is his Christian duty or not, but I will tell you that Muslims are charged by their religion to defend the Koran, media coverage not necessarily withstanding. What Rev Terry is going to do is offended Muslims who haven’t said yea or nay about America one way or the other, along wiht the fundamentalists who are already here and have their knives sharpened. I hope the governor of Florida has some National Guard troops still left there and not in Afganistan: he’s liable to need them in Gainesville by Saturday afternoon.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        tg7357…. Well, I am offended by the Muslims, but I wouldn’t intentionally kill one. They function on a different level than Americans do. We have compassion and give people the benefit of the doubt. I do not believe that they do. Of course I am generalizing, but from what I know of their beliefs, they do not tolerate Christians. I do not condone what Rev. Jones wants to do, but I also don ‘t condone building a mosque close to ground zero. If Muslims do not like our laws and want to trample on our rights, they have a country to call their own which they can return to.

      • LocalYokel

        Intimidation through fear has been the sword of Islam held over both its followers and infidels since it’s escape from Mecca in 622. The Quo’ran has been held as its unquestionable shield even before it suffered 322 years of editing. Seven ways of of reading the text were settled as the only canonical permissible methods using language grammar 158 years younger than the original script. Acceptance of only one of these methods has survived through control by continuous blood line of leaders. Rev Terry is inviting you and all other defenders of the Quo’ran to check the flammability of your unsubstantiated confusion.. Risk of exposure to truth is more than those affected by media white wash can tolerate

      • http://?? Joe H.

        tg7357,
        To a lot of extremist Americans, if those muslims rise up, it proves what they have been saying and Florida won’t need national guard!!!

      • Karolyn

        I think he’s just a crackpot looking to make a name for himself. Anybody can be a preacher in the south. Why does he only have 50 members in his congregation? Hmm. I wonder?

    • http://phpico.com UncleAl

      You say: The books are not the problem: its the twisting of the words in them by fundamentalists that’s the crux of the whole problem.

      I say: Right on!

      • tg7357

        But I also mean that for BOTH sides of the religious issue. Christian fundamentalists can be as bad as Muslim fundamentalists. Thats the problem with fanatics.

      • DaveH

        We are surrounded by people who want to manage our lives. And most of them can’t even manage their own.

      • Karolyn

        And a big AMEN to that!

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        That’s right. Remember when those 7 Day Evangelests flew those planes into the Trade Centers ? Yeah, you really have to watch those Christian fundamentalists. Remember when those Baptists had that taffy pull at that picnic a few years ago? Who was Taffy and what did they pull? Was Taffy a black or a muslim, and what happened to him afterward ?

      • Karolyn

        You’ve got that right Uncle Al.

    • RivahMitch

      “From what I see, the man has found a novel way to commit suicide, because he will be a marked man if he goes through with this. Muslims don’t tolerate their own disrespecting their religion.”

      So you’re suggesting that Islamofascists should be able to intimidate Americans into abandoning their rights? Let’s see, our own military destroys Bibles in the Middle East to avoid upsetting this scum and now we shouldn’t exercise our rights here for thew same reason? Unless and until Westerners begin to respond to deliberate insults and affronts (think “Piss Christ” and celebrity at the 9/11 attacks) in the same tenor as our adversaries there’s no reason to expect that “Western civilization” will survive. A Muslim building a 9/11 Victory Mosque at Ground Zero should be at least as afraid as a Copt worshiping in Egypt.

      • Karolyn

        He wasn’t getting a bonfire permit anyway.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        I don’t think it will work. Shit doesn’t burn too well.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        gunner689,
        Nah you have to draw a comic about it then they will issue a fatwa on you!!!

    • katy b

      “devout muslims” – i cringe when i see that phrase. Do you think they really are devout – which implies a choice? i choose to be a devout whatever. Their “devotions” are necessary – to live.

  • Charlie Foxtrot

    Well as I live in the area surrounding the ‘gala event’, I believe that while watching this spectacle, that I may be forced to set up a food stand and sell ribs. Pork that is. And yes that was sarcasm.

    Burning books, makes not one single bit of difference to how anyone thinks, or believes. And the MSM is on this like white on rice as yet another example of why We the People are too ignorant to know that they know what is best for us. And the point that either you support both the koran burnings and the cordoba mosque, or you oppose them both is valid. But nothing is going to change the way either Pastor Jones thinks, or the way the Islamists think. It just is what it just is. And sorry about my Benjamin the Donkey impersonation.

    • JeffH

      Charlie Foxtrot, I agree.

  • PJ

    What’s going to change? They are going to try harder to kill us? If this is their level of tolerance, why are we allowing them to build anything in this country? Allowing a mosque at Ground Zero is submitting to Shariah. Kiss the US and freedom goodbye.

    • Robert Smith

      PJ asks: >>> If this is their level of tolerance, why are we allowing them to build anything in this country?<<<

      Because many of them are AMERICANS who happen to be muslum, just as many Americans are christian, jewish, budist, and all the other paths that people choose to walk.

      Rob

      • patricia

        Well said,Bob!!!

      • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

        Have you read the Quran, or studied the history of Islam? I think not.

      • Dr. Mabuse

        Directly on point CAB, If he had done as you suggested, he would have found conversion by the sword as the modus operandi. I’ve posed this question to several Muslims, and have yet to receive an adequate answer. “If God is One as you profess, then why do you have sects and schisms in your religion?”

      • Claire

        Robert Smith– Okay, some may be nice Americans muslims/islams BUT this does not alter the FACT that they ARE muslim/islam people and do not forget that they were brought up in this belief.

      • Claire

        Robert Smith–I firmly believe “once a muslim/islam, always a muslim/islam” irregardless if they have American citizenship or not. Their beliefs are literally “burned” into their brains almost from the very minute they are born. No, I do not trust them. I never will.

      • Angel

        Rob, If they are so “American” why aren’t they offended by the attack on “their country”??? I think, like may other people do, that this is a statement of victory. Sorry, I can’t ambrace your statement. Wish I could, it would be so much easier and more comfortable if I could.

      • JeffH

        Robert Smith, a point you should understand is that YOU too are an “infidel” and any compliance with those that preach the Muslim Sharia Laws want you dead too. This IMAM has connections to Hamas and this mosque will “teach” sharia compliance. Killing “infidels” in America and most of the world is against the law if you weren’t aware.

      • Bob

        What page in the Quran does it say to kill infidels. I’d like to look it up.

      • Jeff

        I don’t play that game Bob. Try it on someone else!

      • Jeff

        Bob, just to top it off, where in my comment did I even mention “Quran”?

      • http://naver samurai

        There are too many to list.

      • Jeff

        Qur’an (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them” No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

        Qur’an (8:39) – “And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah” From the historical context we know that the “persecution” spoken of here was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow Muhammad to enter their city and perform the Haj. Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as an armed group, since Muhammad declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad’s intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until “religion is only for Allah.” According to Ibn Ishaq (324), Muhammad justified the violence further by explaining that “Allah must have no rivals.”

        Qur’an (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.” According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.

        Qur’an (9:29) – “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” “People of the Book” refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final “revelations” from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad’s companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.
        http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

      • Jeff

        The text of the Koran is undeniable. How can you be Muslim and still support our Constitution?

        In Islam, all non-Muslims are called unbelievers or infidels. The treatment of the infidels in Islam is divided into two categories. The polytheists, pagans, idolaters and heathens have the choice of converting to Islam or suffer death. The Jews and Christians, whom the Koran calls people of the book, can retain their religion but on the sufferance of accepting humiliation and subjugation to Islam and payment of Jizyah (poll-tax) to the Islamic rulers.

        Now, let us have a closer look at what the Koran says about the infidels:-

        Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
        Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)
        When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)
        Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
        Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)
        The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)
        Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)
        The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
        Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
        (22:19)

        Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)
        The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)
        Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:28)
        Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an (8:12)
        Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)
        The Qur’an certainly proclaims that when the time is appropriate, Muslims must use force to convert the unbelievers to Islam. For the non-Muslims, the alternative to this is to pay the humiliating protection money (Jizya tax) or be killed (by beheading, of course). A militarily dominant Islam, without doubt, precludes the peaceful co-existence with the unbelievers if the Muslims have to abide strictly by the unalterable stipulations of the Qur’an.

        This is why we see very few “moderate” muslims coming out and speaking against the violence. There is so much overwhelming evidence stacked against them not able to be “moderate” because of the fundamental belief’s of Islam.
        http://infidelsarecool.com/2006/12/28/overwhelming-evidence-of-i/

      • Kate8

        You go, JeffH. We can always count on you to produce the evidence.

        If any Muslims were to speak out against the militants, they would become targets themselves. But then, Islam, itself, is militant, and demands “submission”.

        Historically, there have been many attempts by Islam to conquer. The middle east was Jewish before it was Muslim, Islam has moved to conquer Europe in the past and are again, and they are quite open about their intent for America. Why do we ignore this? Their goal has not changed. It hasn’t changed for going on two thousand years.

        Europe is lamenting their tolerance of Islam, and they are warning us not to go down this path. Yet, we continue to pander to them.

      • Claire

        JeffH– Thank you. Now maybe some people will wake up to what this cult is all about.

      • Viktor Leben

        Jeff,

        In a sense we are paying that tax “jizya” right now ! Consider all the money we send to the muslims, to buy their overpriced oil, makes you wonder if we aren’t under their control already !

        Now it seems we have 2 political/economic factions based on oil ? You have the Saudi and all the other muslim countries who sell us overpriced oil. Then you have the Iranians and the countries behind them. Both sides are dominated by Islam. Both sides are spreading their own disinformtion in the media…

        It’s a damn oil war ! And we are funding it.

      • JeffH

        Vik…as for the middle east muslims , we paid and taught them how to make money from their oil and have done a good job funding(CIA)their little wars. They don’t like us and probably never have but it is the worlds “muslim extremists” that have declared war on western non-muslim civilizations. If not the USA then they’d be fighting with someone else. They are barbaric and for the most part are not peacefull and live to fight anyone.

      • http://naver samurai

        Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD (not allah) AND COUNTRY!

    • Karolyn

      Have you ever been to NY? The CULTURAL CENTER is 2 blocks away and around the corner. 2 blocks in NY is a long way, believe me.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Karolyn,
        Yes, I have been to NYC about 17 times. And the place you speak of is close enough that one of the engines from one of the jets hit that very building!!! It is close enough to be in the debris field!!

      • Karolyn

        That’s not saying a hell of a lot. It was a pretty damned big explosion wasn’t it?

  • JeffH

    Terry Jones and his Dove World Outreach Center deserve the same considerations as the “Ground Zero” mosque. A huge majority are offended that a “sharia” mosque would be built so close to ground zero. The POTUS thinks differently. “As Petraeus said, it puts our troops in harm’s way,” Robert Gibbs told reporters Tuesday. “And obviously anything that puts our troops in harm’s way would be a concern to this administration.” Of course MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann addressed the topic, ignoring the intentions of the church and instead framed the effort to stop the Quran burning as “a practical issue,” rather than an academic or fringe discussion.

    Is this Koran burning any more harmful to our American troops than building a mosque that supports killing “infidels” in the middle of NY at ground zero is to American at home?

    You either must support both or deny both because as a supporter the principles are equivelant. I personally don’t support either one.

    • dan az

      JeffH
      neither do I!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      JeffH,
      count my vote on that as well!!

    • Claire

      JeffH– I saw Petraeus (sp) on the news and he said the Quran burning could be bad for our troops, it could put them more into harm’s way. He may have a point. Plus all religious leaders are condemning this burning. I didn’t have a problem with burning this satanic book, however, now that I have heard it could be bad for our troops, I am beginning to wonder. I am more concerned about our troops, not anything else. What do you think?

      • patricia

        Claire, I have also seen the clip with Gen. Petraeus(sp) and I think I see how it could hurt the troops…you see, burning the Quran would be tantamount to showing a lack of respect to peaceful Muslims…you see, some are peaceful…and then you have the RADICALS. That doesn’t mean I support the mosque at or around Ground Zero. That is an event that none of us will forget. It would mean that 3000 + people lost their lives for nothing.

      • ALWAYS RIGHT

        “Peaceful muslims” is an oxymoron. If you’re a muslim, you’re told to kill, convert or enslave (“dhimmitude”) non-muslims. End of Story. what is “peaceful” about that?
        There are muslims actively trying to bring on the 12th Imam and a world-wide caliphate through brutality and violence and those passively trying to do so. But the end result is the same: Death of Western civilization, Christianity & Judaism. “Peaceful” your butt! They hack of heads off of non-combatants and videotape it. They stone and mutilate women and children and use them for human shields. And this guy is worred about “offending” them. Stuff a koran with bacon slices, burn it then urinate on it to put it out, all on video. That’s what I plan to do.

      • Mike Austin,TX

        Several points you may be missing. Just being in that country puts our troops in danger. No, just being alive does. The bigger picture here is the POTUS did not stick up for the Right to burn the books with a disclaimer that is is not a good idea and may further inflame crazy zealots. If he had, the misguided pastor may have taken a different path. As the chief defender of the Constitution, Barry should have acknowledged the right, regardless of the consequences. Just goes to show the double standard. So, in order to insure this duplicity continues to be highlighted, burn as many koran as possible.

      • Wanda Murline

        As I was watching the people in Iraq and Afghanistan, I saw them burning our beloved flag and hanging a dummy which I feel was an infidel..you know..you and me. These people are living in America, building mosques to show victory over us, and they must realize that this is not Great Britian where they can just take over. We have laws that protect us, I think we still have a Constitution, so if the Muslims want to live in this country, they need to learn the law. If this guy wants to burn the Korans, he has the Constitutional right to do so. Petraus is only repeating what the POTUS tells him to do…he is using the military as a scapegoat to stop this to protect the Muslims. The military took orders for their rules of engagement where they could not even shoot an enemy unless they got permission form an overseeing officer, and they are concerned about this?

      • eddie47d

        Wanda; Are we showing victory over Muslims when we build a Christian church in Uganda or Nigeria? I don’t think so! I believe the Christian religion is the better Way and we must prove it to the world. You want to fight evil things with your own evil. Show them the Light of Christianity and leave the darkness to our God.

      • MSGT JOHN CORREA – USAF (RET)

        Wanda, I totally agree with you. Most Americans have two serious problems; they have a tendency to forget events much too easily, and they are basically much too lazy to research history. In Iraq I saw a woman jump up and down with “JOY” when our WTC buildings were destroyed along with the lives of three thousand American men and women. What really makes me angry is the knowledge that never in the history of the United States has our government ever interfered or involved themselves in the protection of any Judeo-Christian religion as much as certain government officials are protecting the Islamic religion of the Muslims. Furthermore, I don’t believe that New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg has any knowledge of the Muslim’s history or its originator, Mohammed. Why do you suppose the Muslims object to the translation of their Koran? I suggest that Americans research the history of Mohammed who ran from Mecca to Medina to save his butt. The reason for his immediate departure was due to his to preaching of violence against the people he designated as “evil-doers.” Here’s a few of their Koran’s Suras; 1. In Sura 18:21 you will understand Why Muslims insist on building a Mosque at Ground Zero; IT IS THEIR SYMBOL OF VICTORY as they built their Mosque over Spanish churches in Cordoba and Seville and Segovia, and Agia Sophia in Constantinople. 2. Sura 9:5, 9:3, and 9:29 of the Koran effectively commands Muslims to kill the non-believers. (meaning us infidels.) I don’t wish to make this paragraph any longer than I have too; but you should research the Koran and its Suras for yourself to learn that the Muslims are currently “infiltrating” key governmnet positions with the help of the foreign-born Muslim Communist U.S. President Barack Hussein Obama II. Wait until you read the Koran’s Sura 5:51, 5:54, and 5:60 that label’s the Jews and Christians as “pigs and monkeys.” Once they gain more and more ground in government, they will impose their law of “Sharia” as the law of the land over us. Wake up Americans!!!

        MSGT JOHN CORREA
        USAF (RET)

      • Beepster

        The Muslims in the U.S. are in the minority, and, as told in the Quran, they must act peacefully. As they take over more and more areas and form inclaves, they start with their Sharia Law. The Quran teaches Tayiqqa, the lieing, deceiving, smiling at infidels while hateing them in their hearts. Google Tayiqqa.

      • Claire

        At the risk of being labeled as standing up for Obama–it wouldn’t have made one bit of difference if he agreed or disagreed with the burning of this satanic book. Obama would have been crucified either way he chose. If he was against it, people would have screamed bloody murder. If he was “for” they still would have screamed bloody murder.
        Now I am beginning to wonder if this preacher simply wanted his 15 minutes of fame? Look at all the religious leaders that are denouncing this action.

      • JeffH

        Mike Austin,TX…that’s my point exactly…double standards. I agree that our military is already in harms way and it seems that burning the book or not won’t chage that. I don’t particularly like any kind of book burning no matter what it is and I sure don’t support the building of a mosque that will support the idea of killing “infidels”.
        Some people will stand up for a “sharia” compliant mosque then under the same breath condemn the “freedom of expression” book burning.

      • JeffH

        …another thought to add is that maybe America is more open to “terrorist muslim” acts of aggression under Obama than before.
        Just a thought!

      • Ed Lester

        In case no one noticed, our troops are already in harms way. Gen. Petreaus, of all people, should be aware of this. As long as Jones doesn’t burn my copy of the Koran, I got no beef with him. It’s called protest, people, and as I recall he has the right. A foolish gesture, probably. But no more foolish than most of what is in the Koran. It is an uninspired pseudo-spiritual rant written by a horny adolescent Arab narcissist.

      • Wanda Murline

        Did you know that Mohammad took his first wife at the age of 5 or 6, but did not consumate the marriage until she was 9…in my view he was a pediphillic rapist. You decide.

      • Claire

        I have edited numerous books about terrorism–I know all about the islams/muslims. I have no use for them. They can stay out of my life. And I could care less about the burning of satan’s book. I already know our troops are in harms way–they should have been brought home years ago. In fact, they should never have been sent there in the first place. But no, seems like the politicians wanted another Viet Nam. As far as our troops not being able to engage in firepower–is this the truth? We don’t know half of what has been going on over there, administrations only “tell” us what they want us to hear, and only in a manner that will make “them” look good. The MSM/talk show hosts continue to stir the pot. Who knows what the real truth is? Bring our troops home, now.
        In Tennessee a mosque has already been torched. Be on the lookout, for it may happen to our churches. People may be playing with “fire” literally. We have to walk softly and carry a big, big stick.

      • Sheldon

        You are referring to Aisha or Ayesha… Mohammed’s THIRD wife.

      • Wanda Murline

        Sheldon, thank you for pointing out that the 9 year old was Mohammad’s third wife. I don’t care if it was his 75th, the fact that he molested a 9 year old is wrong. Had he done this in this country, he would have been prosecuted for rape and spent some time in a jail cell. This should awaken the people of America, the Koran is a book written by one man in his lifetime, with only his ideas and fantasies. It is contradictory, so it states that when contradition arises, take the latter writings as the rule of law…and the later writings are the most violent.

      • Sheldon

        Wanda… when you tell people that Mohammed was a pedophile, I want you to have your facts correct, so your words will have more impact. I also hope you tell many people. Like you, I don’t care “if it was a different time” and I don’t care if he waited a couple of years after marrying a six year old to consummate the marriage.

      • coal miner

        Wanda Murline,

        Where in the hell did you get that at? Muhammad’s first wife was twenty five years old.He had eleven wives.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_wives

      • Sheldon

        Coal Miner… the wikipedia article you linked to said Mohammed was 25 when he married his first wife… who was 40 years old at the time. It appears that age didn’t matter to him. It also said he was monogamous until her death.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        coal dunger,
        We are talking about his third wife aisha. Dig a little deeper and you will find she was six years old when betrothed to him and the marriage was consumated at age nine!!! Suggest you google Muhammads wifes? and you will get a lsting of them in order, age and life span!!! Do we have to tell you how to do EVERYTHING?!?!?

      • Sheldon

        Joe… follow the thread, try to get your head around the conversation before you start calling people names.

      • Kate8

        Claire, I wholly agree with you. You are right on the money.

      • Claire

        kate8—Hi!! Glad you agree. Hope all is well with you and yours.

      • coal miner

        Wanda Murline and Joeh,

        The so called wisest man in the wasn,t exactly a moral man,remember Soloman?

        http://kingsolomonsgate.com/xxx.htm

      • coal miner

        Wanda,

        Incest in the bible,try Lot’s daughters.

        http://www.religioustolerance.org/chrincest.htm

      • http://naver samurai

        Coal digger, don’t forget that his daughters got him drunk as a monkey till he passed out. After he fell “asleep” then they took advantage of him. Get your facts straight before you post! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        sheldon,
        If you just look at the site he suggested for a minute, you might see why I’m so flabergasted with him and it isn’t the first time as well. Besides, he has called many, many people on this site names myself included and I give back twice what I recieve. Sorry if you don’t like it but too bad!!

      • coal miner

        Wanda’

        The Characters in the Bible are no better.

        http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

      • independant thinker

        “In case no one noticed, our troops are already in harms way. Gen. Petreaus, of all people, should be aware of this.”

        Petreaus probably is aware of it most likely he is following orders to speak against the koran burning.

      • coal miner

        My mistake.

        Sorry about that,Sheldon.

      • Sheldon

        lol Took me a few times to figure it out too. Poorly written.

      • coal miner

        Wanda,

        I meant solomon!

      • coal miner

        Samurai,

        You just close the door on your own Barn.If lot Was was passed out drunk how could he have erection.Men don’t get erections when they are passed out drunk. Thats impossible.

      • herman richardson

        Just keep turning your head away, it doesn’t matter to folks until it happens to them. Why are the folks of America the butt of joke about freedom, where is it? Take care of what is ours, let them stay where they are in the country they think is so wonderful and LEAVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE alone. Live your own life in the best way you can and quit trying to ram it down our throats. The only thing apparent here is HE LIED from the beginning. And continues to play the American people like a fiddle. Remember the revolution, might be time to consider that again. FOR THE PEOPLE not the politicians

      • Bob

        Claire most of you people are missing the point. This little piss ant preacher with a whopping 50 congregants is only being used by tne media to whip up more anti muslim fever. If any violence comes from this the media should be held accountable. Why doesn’t the media write articles on the good things religious people do?

      • Claire

        Bob — Hey, you have a good point. I just posted a comment regarding this preacher–I wondered if he was doing it to get his 15 minutes of fame. Hell yeah–these people do it to get the media’s attention and the media blows it all out of proportion, like they do every bit of “news” they hear. They all want their 15 minutes of fame. I agree with you–the media hardly ever reports on the “good stuff” that happens in America. Brainwashing–this includes the MSM and the radio talk show hosts.

      • Claire

        Bob—lol – the little “p— a–”

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Claire: must you judge everyone by your own pathetic standards? Maybe, just maybe, he is a brave man doing the right thing to get these rag heads to back off the mosque thing.

      • Claire

        gunner689–My pathetic standards? What about your own? Do you walk on water? I think not. I posted an opinion just like you posted yours, if you do not like my opinions, don’t read them. I have my standards and I will keep them whether anyone likes it or not. You have yours and you are entitled to them. But don’t call my standards pathetic. I have never called yours pathetic nor anyone elses’. If we do not agree then so be it.
        It did not bother me one bit if he burned the koran, who gives a crap about that piece of garbage. I don’t. But the next thing I heard was that it could possibly be detrimental to our troops. To me, our troops come first.
        Plus the fact there are scores of people out there that will do anything for their 15 minutes of fame. Then they write a book and amass a fortune.

      • JeffH

        Bob, I agree that this shouldn’t even be a story but the leftist controlled MSM once again steps up to the plate with what should be a non-story, thus putting America as a whole in harms way, not just our military. It is just a reminder that the MSM has become the National Enquirer news source. Accountability has become just another 14 letter word to the MSM.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        JeffH,
        did you hear today that the Immam said if he allows the mosque to be moved to another place there will be an uprising among the people of his country? How bout’ we let them rise up, then knock them to hell down???

      • Jeff

        Joe H., I haven’t heard that one. I’ll have to check it out.

      • independant thinker

        “This little piss ant preacher with a whopping 50 congregants is only being used by tne media to whip up more anti muslim fever.”

        Bob, assuming what you say has some truth to it the media isn’t trying to incite violence against muslims for the sake of violence but rather as a means to another end such as calling for more repression of free speach and other freedoms/rights of the American people.

      • Bob

        IT The media likes wars and violence because that’s what sells newspapers.

      • JLC

        Bob — This is, admittedly, hearsay, but it comes from a very reliable source. A close family friend, with two sons currently serving in Afghanistan tells me that, according to her sons, their chaplains are not permitted to be in the field. For whatever it is worth!!

      • libertytrain

        Well I don’t know if this is considered “in the field” but:
        http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hAO6NEFk6og1zlkBfN4fcuCdP3owD9HVVDG00

      • Bob

        JLC The Chaplains aren’t allowed in the field because they don’t want the preachers to see the troops guarding the poppy fields.

      • JLC

        Liberty Train — Thank you for the link.

      • libertytrain

        JLC – you’re welcome. I just remembered hearing the news last week.

      • Jim H.

        Bob, Is the MSM using this to whip up anti-Muslim fever or are they trying to infer that all Right Wing Christians are wacky like the p— ant preacher? Just a thought.

      • Claire

        Jim H– The MSM seizes upon any tidbit and pump it up into something catastrophic that stirs the pot amongst Americans. They “prey” on just about anything if they think it will create a turmoil. BTW–what about the after effects of the oil spill? We never hear anything about that anymore. Sometimes they bypass the “real news” and report on garbage like the preacher and give him 15 minutes of fame over the burning of the Koran. The MSM hawked that story like it was the only news they had.

      • Bob

        Jim H Whether you know it or not very few Christians own newspapers, tv stations or any other media. Most controlled by 15 families, mostly Jewish, not Christian.

      • coal miner

        Bob,

        You are right.I blame CNN, Fox News and CBS.

      • Claire

        Bob–My son came over for supper and he said almost the exact same thing you posted!

      • Bob

        Claire you have a very smart son. Probably because he doesn’t read all the BS on these websites.

      • http://PLD TomD

        I am not for burning the book either but I think our troops are at danger no matter what. Maybe if they dont burn the book it will what? stop the vermin from killing our troops or citizens. No, no matter what these type of muslims what us and our culture DEAD.
        I hope when we see these people burning the US flag or pissing on the Bible the same people speaking out against the koran being destoyed will get as passionate but I doubt it

    • af

      Actually– since you want to make an issue of this– the right to build a building is not guaranteed by the constitution. But freedom of speech, religion and the right to assemble are. So the peacher in Florida has an implicit right to his planned bonfire; the imam does not have an implicit right to build. Moreover– the imam has apparently been the beneficiary of preferential treatment not afford another sect, whom being Eastern Orthodox, could not possible wield the pressure the muslims can. Oh– and the church denied rebuilding rights was there BEFORE the world trade towers came down. So much for equal treatment under the law.

      Quite clearly, one need not hook the two (koran burning and mosque building) together.

      • TL

        Finally a brain in the Nutz Stuff

      • Bob

        The Mosque is not going to be built. It is another story to divide the people.

      • Robert Smith

        From af: >>>Quite clearly, one need not hook the two (koran burning and mosque building) together.<<<

        Correct on the surface of it. But there are three points that must be taken into consideration.

        1. Book burning is nuts. As is Tipper Gore's efforts to discriminate against some kinds of music and the urge of right wing christians to excise Darwin from text books.

        2. The Muslum building is ALREADY there. They are a very moderate group of folks and the head of it has been taking point and going over seas to try to build bridges. We need folks like that as much as we need soldgers. It's easy to put a boot on someone's throat but when the boot is lifted you still have an enemy. If you respect someone, their religion, and reach an understanding that they are mutually out to dominate each other (as some muslums and christians are inclined to do) then there is a chance for peace.

        3. We can't forget the regular American flag burnings that often show up in the news.

        Flag burning by itself truly demonstrates that we are dealing with folks over there just as crazy as Jones. They don't represent all muslums any more than Jones represents all christians.

        Rob

      • independant thinker

        “2. The Muslum building is ALREADY there. They are a very moderate group of folks”

        What is already there is a Burlington Coat building that was damaged and condemed as a result of debris from the planes that hit the twin towers.

        If they are so damned moderate why are not they much more vocal in their condemnation of not only terrorist acts by other muslims but those who propose, plan, finance, and carry out those acts.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        robert,
        Hey dip stick I suggest you look up what the Immam said about allowing the building to be built elsewheres!!! That Mosque is just an attempt to disgrace the American people and set up a monument to the attackers! You wanna believe that these are “peaceful” people go ahead right up till you lose your head over them!!! I’ll believe they mean to subjugate the American people and be ready for them when they come!!

      • coal miner

        JoeH,
        Hey brain donor it is Iman,not Imman.

      • libertytrain

        coal – do a little of the research you enjoy so much – Imam not Iman -”(Reuters) – A New York imam involved in a project to build a Islamic cultural center and mosque near the site of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the city is willing to discuss moving the controversial location, a Florida Islamic leader said on Thursday.”
        — is one example, there are many. Try Wikipedia – though it’s not always the perfect site.

      • Bruce D.

        We have the right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. Building a home on your own property certainly falls under that in the DI. I think the 4th Amendments guarantees property rights. Also any rights not enumerated in the Bill of Rights are reserved for the people. Government has no rights. Government has duties. I know people on this site are more knowledgable than me on the Constitution. Maybe they can give a clearer understanding.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Bruce D,
        Can you spell eminent domain???

      • coal miner

        JoeH,
        Can you spell Iman?HA HA HA

      • libertytrain

        Coal – it seems that the correct word is Imam – not Iman which means strength of belief – so you’re apparently incorrect as well.

      • coal miner

        Liberty’

        Wrong, it is Iman.

        http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GLOSSARY/IMAN.HTM

      • libertytrain

        Ah Coal – I think of faith and belief in the same way – but that’s me and hundreds of other Internet sites that consider Iman belief and/or faith as pretty much interchangeable – ah semantics.

      • libertytrain

        Coal – looking at Joe’s article he was referring to the Imam not the faith or belief that relates to the word Iman

      • libertytrain

        coal again, if Joe was referring to the cleric as it appears he was when he said the Immam, the correct spelling is Imam. Iman is belief or faith not the cleric.

      • coal miner

        Liberty,

        An imam (Arabic: إمام plural أئمة A’immah‎, Persian: امام) is an Islamic
        leadership position, often the leader of a mosque and the community. …

      • libertytrain

        Yes Coal and that is whom he was referring to.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        libertytrain,
        I couldn’t write comedy better than this!!! He proves himself WRONG!!! I just hit the “M” key twice by accident!!! I would have done it sooner if I had known it would make me laugh this much.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      JeffH…. Very well said! If they want to be here, in this country, they must learn that we have a Bill of Rights. I think a bonfire made of Qurans is not ‘politically correct’, but neither is flying planes into skyscrappers!

      • JeffH

        Robin from Arcadia, IN, well said and simply easy to understand.

    • http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish Doug Schexnayder, PhD (ret)

      QURAN…EDIT,THEN BURN BABY BURN

      The massive outrage of intolerant liberals and cult of allah fawners concerning a tiny American christian church burning a few Qurans has brought up a great point about the Quran.
      The offensive murderous medieval sections of the Quran (added later) that give CAUSE for worldwide murder of innocents for at least a generation should NOW be edited out.

      A worldwide committee of top islamists should immediately convene to do this obvious editing of the Quran so the rest of the world does not have to suffer the mindless terror via “misinterpretation” anymore.

      Why has this obvious scrubbing NOT already been done?

      Why have you not heard ANY islamic voice clamoring for this obvious long overdue move?

      We should ignore the lies like, “its radical islam, its the jihadists”. Until the Quran is edited ALL ISLAM IS RADICAL.

      Over a billion cult of allah members and not a peep about removing or editing that (supposedly) few sections that are “misunderstood”.
      What does that tell you?

      Is it not true that centuries ago all Qurans were burned except one version so as not to confuse followers?
      Well, here we are again. There are NO excuses.
      You now have that uneasy gut feeling, don’t you?

      conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

      • http://PLD TomD

        Amen Brother

    • Kate8

      JeffH, I would not be part Koran burning, but not because it would further inflame muslims.

      If we keep walking on egg-shells, bowing to every cry of “insult” on the part of Muslims, it will only get worse. We can’t allow ourselves to be intimidated by threats into giving up our rights of expression.
      If this is a statement these folks want to make, then it is their choice.

      Maybe a bit less publicity would be in order here. No doubt this administration has made a spectacle of this in order to futher discredit American conservatives. I’m sure if it was a Bible-burning (or worse) on the part of Muslims, it would have scarcely gotten notice. Christians are insulted, defamed and marginalized every day, and no one cares about hurting Christian’s feelings.

      We all know that the intent of Islam is to dominate our country. Allowing them to build near GroundZero is no less an insult to us. If they want to burn Korans, let them. Maybe it’s important to them. In any case, it’s not for us to say whether they can or not. We do not have to participate or approve. The media could have left it as a private event, and then it wouldn’t have mattered.

      • Jeff

        Kate8, as usual you get it. Well said and I agree.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        I’ve got a better idea. Let’s bury Korans and burn mosques.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        gunner689,
        Even better yet bury mosques and burn terrorists!!!

    • http://att.net Virginia L. Connor

      I asked to read Ray Bradbury in my high school sophomore year because I did not want to read CATCHER IN THE RYE.Later, I met Mr. Bradbury and I could only bring one book to bring for him to sign. Guess which book I asked him to sign? None other than FAHRENHEIT 451! He asked me why I chose it and I told him I didn’t care for censorship, since that meant the Bible could also be censored as well. He agreed too. I happen to be a Christian and conservative, but I feel that burning the Koran will only make things worse for Christians and Jews. I don’t want the Mosque built near Ground Zero, but is it worth WW111?

    • katy b

      Robert Gibbs:“And obviously anything that puts our troops in harm’s way would be a concern to this administration.”
      Oh really? if the troops were a concern to O and his regime, (they) wouldn’t have changed the Rules of Engagement – which in truth is making our troops sitting ducks.

    • Karolyn

      Give me a break!! You cannot equate the two in any way shape or form. and the “mosque” 2(long, NY) blocks from Ground Zero is not to be a mosque but a cultural center with a prayer room. That preacher in Florida is nothing but a big a-hole who’s having a great time with his 15 minutes of fame. It’s just a damn shame the media couldn’t have just ignored him.

      • independant thinker

        I have read in numerous articles on the subject that the top floor of the proposed building is to be a mosque.

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