That was written in Oct 08 eight years after Clinton and it ignores all that the eight years of Bush with six years of a republican congress and two years of a split congress and the senate only had a l vote majority and the republicans filibustered attempts by the dems to make changes but for six years after Clinton the republicans could have corrected anything they did not like about Clinton but what is so funny is now the same people accuse Obama of still blaming Bush after only 19 months and before the mess he left can be fully cleaned up.

Want to bet Obama is for the mosque? The only reason he’s shut his mouth about it for the present is bacause if he comes out and publicly advocates it, he’s going to torpedo his own party in the November elections, if he hasn’t done so already with his open-mouth-insert-foot of the other day.
Oh, Obama is all for that mosque; it will fit in well with his apology-tour to the Middle East and Europe from the first part of his regime. it will make a nice touch for his Muslim brothers to build it and put a commemorative plaque on it with his name.

What are you the chief Obama apologist and defender here?
Now we hear the parts of the ground zero “Hamamosque” Imam’s book were worked into Obama’s Cairo speech. USS Cole bomber prosecution halted, NASA’s mission changed to Muslim outreach, etc… etc… etc….
Obama is for the mosque alright, just like he said. The community organizer in chief often opens his mouth and speaks his mind before his handlers can stop him.

Well just how big in lower Manhattan ? I don’t agree with the President yet I understand the nature of his statement. He’d been miles ahead on the national political scene if he’d not weighed in on this. But there is other scenes besides America.

You and I see no need to consider since we are not the President. This is more a conflict of position and not so much of interest.

Let’s go over what he actually said.” But let me be clear. As a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.”

hmm? as a Citizen I don’t agree but as the President I would agree.

Now pay attention here, it’s important that you do.

BHO is voices American values and principals and saying, They have the “right” with conditions ~ private property and in accordance with local laws and ordinances”

So what does that mean? ~ It’ means they must buy the land , which means someone must sell the land. And if you think local law and ordinances are going to be easy ~ you’ve got much to learn about city government and building codes. ~ If they ever do build it, it will be one expensive son of buck! ~ and like the twin towers it too can fall down.

What I hear is a President saying what he had to say, while giving everyone the heads up about what must happen to prevent it.

Now , you might not see it this way ~ but you must understand the nature of politics. You can’t always address things head on and expect to be successful.

Much like this sb1070, ~ it a head on approach to attacking illegal immigration by giving Government more rights and each of us having less personal liberties in the process.

There is a time and place for head-on assaults, neither of these issue will be best resolved in this manner.

Understand , it’s okay for you to be anger and disagree. ~ Register your strong displeasure. That’s what you are suppose to do.

Consider it a trial balloon test, a float, no float test.

But what many have done, is taking this as some kind of validation to rumors.

I just ask you to consider the best approach to kill this construction project.

What grounds can be brought forward to resisted it? ~ It’s clear the Muslim Community is insensitive to most Americans feeling.

So what’s new? ~ You think this alone might stop this project? They don’t think like us, don’t expect them too.

and more over ~

The Presidents can’t be seen as “appearing” to run the Nation on “Feeling” bias or otherwise.

I’m not trying to defend or change your mind ~ I’m wanting effective opposition to engage this issue.

Bob Liar, that’s their trophy,after the World Trade Center attack, they build a Mosque to their victory.

Bob Wire–I do not approve of a mosque near Ground Zero. I think the muslims have a “method to their madness” and I am highly suspicious. And as the days go by, I hear more and more names of people that are supporting this mosque. This is what really bothers me. I think Obama should have kept his dang mouth shut about the issue. He just added more fuel to “his” own “roasting.” Everyone needs to find out all the names of the people that are supporting this mosque. And what about the Democrats AND the Republicans that do not say anything about the mosque? I am still digging.

barbwire,
why don’t you just tell the truth, HE VOTED “PRESENT” AGAIN!!!!

I lie not Joe , You hear only what you wish to hear.

You would be well served to listen better and read better.

The Navel engagement that sent the PT 109 to the bottom was well documented with supporting witness testimony. McCain heroic lost of one war bird was not so much so. ~ But read into it what you wish, that’s what’s expected of you.

Myself I question McCain’s judgment and ability to follow protocol and proven methods. Especial after divorcing a wife laying in a hospital bed to marry up to wealth and the copiousness nature he ran his campaign. Like his butt was on fire. His answer to the Hillary Threat, was to go get himself a prettier woman, Not to mention the Keating 5 adventure and influence peddling

McCain has developed quit a track record that stands on it own. You only need to look at it to see he’s an opportunist and don’t think things through very far. Pretty much the reason he got blown out of the sky.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And the President statement was in line with policy and rule of law.

They “can build” if they can “comply” and “buy” ~ those are any Americans obstacles if they wish to build.

There is nothing in the law books about the “rights” of public sentiment toward religions.

Warm and fuzzy, feel good ideas is not what any President is expected to address.

Let them pay top dollar to build the thing ~ and see how long it stands.

There is just some things that not for public discussion JOE.

But I know ~ it’s a lot more fun to attack the president!

We didn’t have all these people come to our shores in droves until the Bushes ~ and their business ties and two wars did we?

I agree Claire, I wish he’d kept his dang mouth shut too!

But don’t confuse the statement as “support”

He’s not just a citizen as you and I, and his words must be measured inside a framework of position and law.

Where you are I Claire can say, to “Heck”! with the law,

We don’t like it and don’t approve of it and don’t want to look at Disney Land Palace against all the modern structure of the 20th and 21st Century in downtown Manhattan.

We don’t won’t to hear crying foreign languages walling over a PA system three times a day for the rest of our lives and see people on their hands and knees and butt in the air on a thier magic carpet!

We can say, We feel a if this dishonors the dead. We can say, we don’t like the sons of b1tches.

but

Obama can’t say such things.

He said he was he was for their Constitutional right to build it and yes even at this location, he never gave personal preference or presidential preference as to weather he was for or again this location only they had that right. He clarified it the next day after his words the night before were taken out of context by so many reading that into his statement and using their take on it and not his. Unless you can read his mind no one knows.

To all–I still think it is important for us to find out the names of EVERYONE who is supporting/promoting the building of this mosque. I think it will be an eye-opener.

I am thankful I do not hear that wailing on a PA system day in and day out. Sad.

Like I said before, put that mosque on Alcatraz.

DaveH, Right on.

That reminds me of those teachers who rag on the parents for not spending enough time educating their kids. It’s the teachers’ job. If they can’t do their jobs, then at the very least they shouldn’t try to put off their lack of teaching skills on the parents.
Ironically, it is teacher groups that are lobbying hard against home-schooling. They want what they want and they want Big Government to force us to give it to them.

DaveH–The parents are supposed to “raise” their kids. The teachers are supposed to “educate” them. From what I have observed regarding somes cases, the parents and the teachers are doing neither.

Claire – I agree with your comment totally – also, the happy dance is beginning. She should be on a plane leaving Afghanistan tonight -

libertytrain, congratulations. Hold your enthusiasm best you can until you see her with your own two eyes, then let it flow. I’mm happy for you.

Claire, well said.

Thanks Jeff, until those boots are on USA ground, I will be holding the happy dance that Claire talks about. I’m glad she’ll be able to be back with the family. Son-in-law got back in late June from Afghanistan and the toddlers are now enjoying him and counting the days for their mommy to be with them once – again – dual deployments are difficult for all involved.

libertytrain–I am very happy for you, for your family. Even the dog! God love you and your family. I will be thinking about you. Be sure to do the “happy dance” with your daughter! Tell her I am extremely proud of her and hubby!! Give her a hug for me.
My cousin (one of them) is in Kuwait now.

Libertytrain,
just goes to show that prayers do help!! I kept my promise to you and added your kids to my nightly prayers and I know a couple of others here did as well. He hears and answers!!! Tell them I said welcome home and a heartfelt THANKS!!!!

JoeH – thank you for the prayers and good wishes. We need to keep it up for all our soldiers out there. She’s not back yet – kind of in a holding pattern in Manas. But that’s ok, she’s begun the journey back.

Bob Wire…

The evidence based on laws already passed, and restrictive laws proposed, and many comments from lawmakers, is that the government wants to take away the guns and/or prevent them from being used in self defense.

Look to the problems in South Africa when the good citizens were hamstrung on guns, and the criminals were given free reign to use guns.

It is part of History.

I had friends over there at the time, and got reports.

Carol: Regardless of what is going on with SS, people, not the government should plan and save for their own retirement. Why do people think that the government should be allowed to take money and “save” it, via government, so that others won’t have to plan and save? That doesn’t seem right to me. Social Security should be phased out and people need to be responsible, along with their children for their own care during the later years. I’m certain that this statement will create a firestorm. The government doesn’t “manage” money. It only continues to take and spend more than it takes. Stop relying on the government people. Maybe this is a hard one to grasp but we need to take care of ourselves and boot out this big government monstrosity. If they didn’t exist in their current form, we would all have more money to save as we desire. The checks they are writing for SS are coming off the backs of our grandchildren and I don’t have any yet. My children are still in elementary school.

People can now come into this country at age 65 and start collecting SS without ever having worked here.

I’m with you, Dogswife. How people ever bought into the scam, that people in the Government would care more for our lives than we do, is beyond me. Would we let our neighbor take our money for our own good? Would we even let a financial advisor take our money (against our will) for our own good? When anybody takes our money against our will, it is just plain theft. And in the case of Social Security, most of us know that taken money was spent years ago. Social Security is nothing but a Ponzi-scheme.
Now, we are between a rock and a hard spot. How do we end it without screwing those of us who already paid in against our will? And if we continue it, the future retirees get screwed as the economy dwindles from too much Government. I think the only chance we have is to cut Government’s size dramatically and hope that the robust economy that follows will be enough to save the past victims of the Social Security Scam.

Dogswife; I hope you are saving a bundle if you don’t want Social Security and are willing to take the risk in the stock market or another investment.I mean at least a thousand a month or more. Social Security has definetely been abused for years and I can understand your worry. The concept of Social Security was and still could be a good one if it is only used for the right purpose. Few companies offer good pension plans anymore so there has to be something out there as a safety net.It’s been proven that Americans don’t save much on their own. If they have a choice of buying a home/nice car over savings the house always wins. Social Security has saved allot of people in retirement who otherwise would have nothing. If Social Security was done away with the welfare rolls would swell and that would be a bigger nightmare.

Eddie,
Whether it was a noble thought originally or not, nobody has the right to take your money away “for your own good”. People have a right to be ignorant if they choose. And they have a right to pay for it later if they choose wrong. They don’t have a right to make others pay for their mistakes. That is the only way that most people will make the effort to take care of themselves (if they can’t later ride on the coattails of others).
How could anybody not do better with that confiscated money than the Government has? That money is gone! No individual could have done worse than that. So they immorally took our money against our will, and then they didn’t even do their fiduciary duty of conserving it for us.

DaveH: Recently I have started wondering whether Social Security was ever intended to be a “safety net.” Have been paying attention to the markers on tomb stones. An awful lot of those born say in the late ’30s didn’t live to the age of ’62…the original “retirement age.” Life expectancy didn’t really surge til the last, say 20 years. Could it be that FDR really wasn’t thinking of all of us “poor” folks out here…and how he could “help” us? Could it be that all along it was a “scam” to merely get more money into the federal “coffers?”

You’re right, tfk. And we can probably add vote-buying to the reasons they promoted Social Security.

I used to have a nice retirement set up. I would have had about another $500 a month income. It pretty well poofed 2 years ago, and it was diverse. I should have my inheritance, but the state has blocked every effort to have it turned over to me. They still say they don’t have all the information they require to let me use it. Every time my attorney takes the new info they required the last time he went to court, they ask for something else. My advice is to stay away from California. They want your money as badly our people in Washington D C. It’s my money, but if I use any of it before the courts say it’s legally mine, I could go to jail.

Sorry to hear that, Carol. I am in a similar situation. Someday maybe the citizens will figure it out that the Government people are in it for themselves, not us.

Dogswife, you obviously did not have to study the history of Social Security in school. I suggest you do some research and learn the origin of it. I did not have the choice of NOT contributing to it. It was taken from my paychecks without my permission. It was supposed to have been put into an interest earning fund, but was never done.

Dave I don’t have to read it , I know! It been going on for years!

Small business is under attack by government, special interest and big business! They are attempting to remove consumer options and local small business concerns. ~ Anyway they can! Dave

They are tag teaming us. Attempting to make it too expensive to for us to open the doors.

Which is why, Bob, the only way to get a “fair” marketplace is to get the Government out of it. Give the power back to the Consumer.

barbwire,
hire some of Nobamas people, they will work REALLLL hard for you!!!

JoeH– forget that!!! lol

Bush and Cheney are gone genius. Nothing we can do about those losers. Stay focused on the present losers. Oidiot and his crew are 100x worse and more destructive to our country than Bush ever was. You cannot see the truth, as do most liberals.

Graig,

Have you heard?Ken Mehlman has come out of the closet.That is George W.Bush’s Republican NAtional Chairman.Tell JoeH stay strong. we will pray for him.Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2010/08/former-rnc-chairman-is-gay-will-support-gay-marriage.html

I meant was.

I meant He was.

Hey backhole miner,
I always said Bush was a RINO!!!! Maybe this is good news for you for other reasons????? Perhaps THAT is why you support the gay agenda?!?!? Need I make it any PLAINER for you????

Craig, all the left knows how to do is carp about Bush. That’s been ingrained into their simple minds.

At least many on the right are able to see their politicians objectively, and know when they are out of line. We go after our turncoat leaders all the time.

The left worships their politicians no matter what they do. If they have a D by their name, they are a-okay.

Well Kate, that is because Obama is being viewed and measured to Standards we are uncertain of.

We only have past known standard to apply. The most recent in memory comes to mind.

Don’t you think it’s only fair to apply the same standards to all?

I’m only 62 ~ and draw from memory and personal experience with some academic knowledge of American and World History.

My first personal memory of Nation Events was in the first grade and the launching of the first nuclear submarine the Uss Nautilus in 1954 while Eisenhower was in office. My teacher, ( Mrs Spivy) made it a point that we knew history was being made that day.

Prior to that, ~ I only watched and listened in amazement as a small boy, as huge formations of B36 bombers filled the sky and rattled the ground as they flue overheard. I only knew ~ they were not of “my” world and belonged to “others”, it was very scary.

A blink of time in the telling of history ~ But each President since then has been held to a “Standard” by the people. We’ve been both pleased and disappointed with all of them. Much like a family member in a way.

So what standard should we apply today?

Great logic, Bob. Hitler’s standards were unknown also until afterwards.
I use my experience and knowledge to look ahead and figure out where I’m going before the damage occurs.

It’s not “his standards” but your standards Dave. The standard that you apply.

Hitler was a man full of anger and on a mission, We have a standard to judge him ~ He was a Far Right extremest, military dictator and cold blooded bigot.

Some have attempted to show parallels to both Bush and Obama ~

No one got much mileage for attempting to do so, so far. For there is little substance to support either.

A foolish attempt to fool the more foolish, as neither men compare.

Hitler was as close to the Great Kublai in method as you might get.

BW, All I can say is, if a republican candidate tried to come forward with Obama’s credentials, or lack thereof, and sketchy (and hidden) past, he would never have made it to the primaries.

McCain, bad as he is, was throroughly vetted, and all questions about his past were resolved.

You libs have simply closed your eyes and ears to all the overwhelming evidence of massive cover-up and conspiracy. Yes, I said conspiracy.

We conservatives questioned many things about Bush, the same as we question any politician. We were extremely angry about some of the things he did, and we called him on it.

You libs follow Obama and his band of demons with absolute blind loyalty. Even if the face of disaster, you continue to praise him. And blame the republicans for EVERYTHING, even though they have had very little influence over the years.

Take a look at what the democrats have done to states like California. A total disaster. And the nation is right on our heels.

Kate8; I was going to direct this to Craig but you out did him. George Bush is a historical figure (like Clinton,Reagan or Obama). Some do like to poke fun at Bush just like any President. The more I see some of you (most of you)attack Obama then the more I want Bush’s name brought up. I personally never called President Bush the filthy demeaning names that I hear said about Obama. You said you called Bush out a few times? Then how could he have possibly got re-elected? I do not respect allot of commentators here because of their vicious attacks,especially when they are not true. When a progressive comes on this site and challanges anyone it’s always the same response (lying liberal go somewhere else). No debate even when the liberal is right. Now Obama has a few faults of his own. I think he should be more Christian sensitive and talk about their accomplishments for making this a great nation. He let’s the right define Christianity when there are good liberal speakers for God. No President should take anything for granted and both Bush and Obama have done that. Bush said he was the decider and had a mandate to govern. He barely got elected both times and showed his arrogance both times. Now I do wish Obama would tone down his arrogance.

kate8 says:
August 27, 2010 at 5:27 pm

BW, All I can say is, if a republican candidate tried to come forward with Obama’s credentials, or lack thereof, and sketchy (and hidden) past, he would never have made it to the primaries.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
With all Respects Kate, BHO was a US Senator and he has offered up a history, credentials and a autobiography. What the GOP has and does is irrelevant ~ While I do like and respect Mrs. Palin, her family values and as a person, ~ she,like Dan Quail was just another pretty GOP face and neither would not have made it to the DNC primaries as pretty as they may have been.

McCain, bad as he is, was thoroughly vetted, and all questions about his past were resolved.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well yea, ~ The Keating 5 was not overly exploited, or the Fee Trips to Happy Land and stays in Island Mansions of Mr Keating just for kicks! ~ The decision was made by the DNC to ignore these “questions” of ethics for the greater good. The DNC took the “high road” ~ That he lost a military plane, it was ignored for all the pain he suffered in captivity and never was brought before full review. That McCain divorced his 1st wife Carol, while she lay in a hospital bed was rarely mentioned. As McCain seen an opportunity to marry into great wealth. ~ hardly a word spoken about it. I find that personally reprehensible and just one more poor example of poor conduct and judgment. And on a side note; It made Nancy Reagan sick to her stomach as well and the Reagan did help Carol in her most difficult times as McCain became a GOP hopeful a sported is new wealthy wife.

I would say most GOP members closed their eyes to this behavior and questionable display of “family values” So is that vetted to you? ~ There is little conspiracy to it. None is needed!

You libs have simply closed your eyes and ears to all the overwhelming evidence of massive cover-up and conspiracy. Yes, I said conspiracy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, I’m surly not a liberal ~ but this mass cover-up and conspiracy is about all the GOP/Tea baggers have got! ~ It sometime to “create and add too” where there little else to throw. They sure don’t bring forward any record of success, with the exception of what Storming Norman gave them and Reagan’s Valentines Day Card to Omar Khadafi.

We conservatives questioned many things about Bush, the same as we question any politician. We were extremely angry about some of the things he did, and we called him on it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well the message got scrabbled ~ and read Tax Cuts and 4 more Years!

You libs follow Obama and his band of demons with absolute blind loyalty. Even if the face of disaster, you continue to praise him. And blame the republicans for EVERYTHING, even though they have had very little influence over the years.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you consider “praise” defending him from erroneous attack, then yes we praise him. He were the lesser of two evils Kate, please don’t confuse that with “love” or “praise” ~ The GOP offered me no choice in the matter. You need to accept that at some point.

Take a look at what the democrats have done to states like California. A total disaster. And the nation is right on our heels.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmm? ~ It don’t think either of these states California and Arizona are very reflective of the nation katie and both have GOP Governors at the moment.

Both have serious immigration problems, state budget short falls and extremely High Taxes. The immigration problem has been on going for the last 31 years and we’ve enjoyed 20 of those years under GOP executive office leadership.

BHO has been in office only about 18 months to date ~ I’m not sure if you can blame him or just democrats for current illegal immigration numbers as I know they are deporting foreigners at a accelerated rate of speed these days, ever deporting anchor babies parents. No to mention Border patrol has been beefed up and there more to come.

This is a serious problem ~ well beyond was just what a fence might do. I’ve spoke with many illegals Mexicans about this. ~ One was from Mexico City. ~ Asking him why! Why are you here?!!! The answer? This economic down turn is world wide ~ and it always hurts the poorest first and the hardest. Mexico has serious problems, unemployment is high and three drug cartels are making great gains the Federal Counsel controlling some 13 seats, the gulf cartel being the strongest.

For now, much of this is out of our hands ~ we are left with containment and interdiction.

barbwire,
“it was never brought up that he lost a plane?!?!?!?!? Are you without logical thought??? That wasn’t brought up for the same reason that it was never brought up that JFK lost a PT boat. BECAUSE THEY WERE BOTH CONSIDERED HEROES!!!!! You sir, are an idiot!!!

“Oidiot and his crew are 100x worse and more destructive to our country than Bush ever was.”

Such embellishment undermine the creditability of your post.

To date;Sir Obama has been in office about 18 months and spent less then two and more then one trillion dollars. Much of this loot is still tied up in the system. Much is being sand bagged by Republican Governors. The full affect of it yet to be felt and won’t be for some time.

Now how you can compare that with a “known” 8 years track record and conclude it somehow 10x worse be-galls the mind. ~ You have little to base this comparison on other then your emotions that are being feed by a political machine and a major media outlet hell bent to destroy “any” DNC administration, much less the present one.

I’m completely willing to overlook you wish to ignore the fact ~ The US was in a “economic collapse” two months before HO took the oath of office. Completely willing to overlook GDP growth was in a negative for 2008. Completely willing to overlook unemployment was on a steep rise.
Completely willing to overlook 4 trillion spent on two wars to “no where”. Completely willing to overlook 6000 Mother’s tears.

43 ran this country in the ground Sir, making friends and enemies while playing Santa Claus to a select few.

When he handed Obama the keys, all fuel tanks were empty, all charge cards were maxed out and all the bills were due and no one had bothered to take the trash out or mow the yard.

Let us attempt to be reasonable in our assessments . ~

Look at some good news , the GDP has grown almost 3% this year to date and we have slowed job loss. This downturn has been a bugger to stop.

To date is has been done with very little bipartisan support, we have had to fight and drag the GOP the whole way and fight off the bear all at the same time.

If You wish to defend this “with love of country” ~ I’ll pass on any love you might have to offer. I’d settle for a stick in the eye.

Big Brother hflashman what you fail to understand and what you will continue to fail to understand is that the things those on the right did not like in Bush we are seeing multiplied 10X by Obama. We are making an effect to correct those problems from the right while the things you did not like in Bush you give full support to under Obama and act as his cheerleader as do those in the media. “There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.”

Thanks for that Bruce, you told me something ~ but you need to narrow these “dislikes” down before we can really discuss them.

You know? ~ Like offer us an example, or one or two things in specific.

That would help a lot in understanding your position.

As represented, you hold “more then apprehensions” and voice only dislike in the current dministration.

We don’t necessary need a whole laundry list to start meaningful discussion but we do need ‘something’!

And be mindful ~ to what standard you apply to Obama will permit the same standard to apply to all other prior Presidents.

You are missing the point Bob Wire. You are looking to the right to defend the mistakes of the left. I am saying why try to make excuses for either side. The budget would be an example. Bush X deficit-Obama 10X deficit. The left were huge critics of the Patriot Act. Not a word about it now and renewed it.Obama does not seem to be much different from Bush in foreigh policy-only Bush did not ‘suck up’ and bash America like Obama has. I know foreign countries like the ‘suck up” and put down of America but what has he achieved by it. Why not pull troups out of Germany and Japan and defend our southern boarder. It is time these countries take responsibility for their own defense. Many on right would like to cut back on U.S. involvement overseas. Instead it is business as usual.

Bruce, hmm? ~ looking to the right to defend the left?

well, ~ Bruce neither administration works inside a vacuum.

Example; ~ I’m father/husband of a household, I fail to address the needs of my family. ~ I misspent the families money. I failed to bring in enough to compensate for my poor spending habits. I buy a new deer rifle and pay my part of the hunting lease with the guys. ~ I ignore the thread bare tires on the wives car she drives to work. ~ The boy is hell on his pants and shoes. ~ I fail to set down and explain to him, the need to be more careful with his play as we can’t afford to re-outfit him every 60 days. The daughter need to see the dentist, but we are postponing it. She want to buy the school annual and class ring but the mother needs new tires.

The wife packs the kids and leave while the husband is on a hurting trip, says she has had about enough ! She finds herself a new man that willing to buy the farm, lot ,stock and barrel.

This new man, has got some “Spending” to do to please this woman and enjoy all of her good stuff and keep peace in the Shire.

This new man is Obama. ~ now if I’m attempting to compare one to the other, I suppose I am. But bottom line ~ this woman and her children have needs that has been ignored and she tied of working her ass off while the man plays and doesn’t share her priorities.

America is in great disarray today and it’s peoples “needs” should be considered and made possible for them to reach with in a 50 hour work week of two people.

Is that asking too much, too much hope for?

Bruce

All bullcrap coming from the far right wing propaganda machine that you have swallowed hook line and sinker!!

I can see why you call yourself smilee. No valid points.

Smilee who on the right is talking about bringing troups home from Germany and Japan or the Patriot Act at this time. Few if any, just mindless banter on your part.

Bruce

In your first post you fail to understand my very valid points, I believe its called denial!! The second post is typical of conservatives when they cannot address intelligently the issue of the poster they are addressing they change the subject to something else and you you did just that!!

Our economy was doing very well long before Kennedy became president so how do you account for that??

Small percentage take advantage of it? You ain’t never been to south central LA and surrounding cities. There is more than a small percentage abusing the system. There are families that have been abusing it for generations.

Welfare people aren’t included in the unemployment statistics. Some families have been on welfare for 4 generations. About time to break the cycle.

Why break it? They always vote “right”…for the party that doles out the most free benefits. Somebody has to pick them up and use them or the bleeding heart do-gooders will be hurt!

Exactly what has caused the Job losses in the U.S.A.? Could it be the economic colapse caused by the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act of 1933 signed by Bill Clinton in 1998-1999, which made it legal for Banks to sell derivatives and debit credi swaps? Could it be the Community Re-investment Act originating with Carter and dusted off and strengthened by Clinton. Could it be the 110% Mortgages that should never have been made. Could it be that no one in their right mind would invest in, start, or expand a private business in this uncertain time. Capital will continue to flee this country in the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 are not made permanent, the death tax is not eliminated, and a reduction in capital gains taxes.

Conservative;Everything you said is true but those laws were put in place to make our system better. They certainly shouldn’t have been watered down by Clinton or Carter.Unfortunately few things work out the way they are supposed to work. Those laws (before and after)weren’t a license to cheat. Who took advantage of those laws? Capitalistic banks and mortgage companies. The government got a little to generous and these corporate thieves got a might greedy and raided the hen house. Oversight was lax on both sides. Not much different for some folks on welfare;the more you give them the more they want.Then everyone sees how easy it is and “everybody” wants in.

wrong Doc. a helluva lot of them. and a helluva lot of them are working getting paid under the table. I know some of them and have known a lot of them in my 74 years on Gods green earth. and if you will look around you probably know a few too, oh by the way a helluva lot of wellfare recepients do the same thing, all wellfare recipients are not lasey. they are very smart and do work,

And don’t forget how fathers of welfare babies disappear during a certain time of the month when case workers may drop by for an inspection. OOPS! Can’t find the abandoning parent in the house!

Doc, It doesn’t matter HOW much money the government collects in taxes. It will never be enough. Even if they took everything we earned it would not be enough.

They are printing money out of thin air. It does not exist.

Harrassing the taxpayer is just another way to keep us stressed out. It is to get us out of the game.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

And no matter how little the government collects in taxes it will never be a small enough amount for most taxpayers. That is why we elect people to represent us and create a balance between the two positions (too much or too little taxes) to run our government.

There is no such thing as balance. They will take as much as they can, until we stop them. Unfortunately with so many people paying little or no taxes, the political class has a ready supply of bought-and-paid-for voters to keep that from happening.

DaveH

We know there can be no balance coming from someone as unbalanced as you are!

Doc, You have a problem with people wanting to enjoy the fruits of their own labor?

You seem to think the government has a right to it.

Sleepee,
What would disturb me would be an ignorant person, such as yourself, defending me.

My son has been on that “safety net” for two years now.
I have known nobody personally that hasn’t milked unemployment benefits all the way to cut off. Then they suddenly get the energy to get a job.

The majority of folks that I know personally who have been layed off (most of which has been in the last two years) sought employment immediately and were working again within three months. None of those who I know who lost their job were unemployed longer than one year.

Doc, Doc, Doc… “through no fault of their own”, you bet. Of course they are in the unemployment line because our government has fostered a system whereby fiscal irresponsibility has been rewarded but only to the controlling rich. In case you haven’t heard, our wonderful omnipotent corporations and their government worthless lackeys have hooked up to allow the corporations to go global. You know what this means, don’t you Doc? Of course you do, it means that the corporations can now exploit hapless third world countries into providing the labor for a starving wage. Hey, guess what?–the only people that this benefits is the investors because the consumer seems to be paying more and more for the products even in spite of the cheap labor, and, if you remember, that was what was sold to us when they were putting together NAFTA: cheaper goods. Did that happen? Nike Chairman “Phil” Knight has a whole army of third world literally starving to work for Nike. I don’t see anywhere were Nikes are manufactured in the good ole USA. Off the top of my head the only shoe I know of that is manufactured here in America is San Antonio Shoes (SAS) and, I might add, they are an excellent excellent shoe, cheaper and nicer than Nike. I’m just using SAS and Nike as a case-in-point since Nike makes athletic shoes but that doesn’t diminish the premise or the truth of what I am saying. Com’on Doc.

The libs DO care about the poor. However, first they’ve got to take care of thier voting bloc: The stupid, the irresponsible, the inept, the lazy, the connected, and the criminal. If there’s anything left over after that, the poor are the first in line.

Come on lemming!Don’t you think corporates and some small businesses were irresponsible,well connected and criminal, The banks,investment co.’s,mortgage co’s,,insurance co’s, car co’s,big pharma all made that so true. They were first in line for corporate welfare when they were growing and first in line when they lost their butts.

I don’t suspect…. I absolutely KNOW there were companies gaming the system and corporate welfare (supplied by government for the sole purpose of taking in more in taxes than they{WE} paid to prop ‘em up) should be made illegal. GM and Chrysler (hurts to say because I’m a Mopar fan in the racing world) should’ve “sunk or swam”. A couple others you cited (banks and mortgage cos.) were driven to bankruptcy BY GOVERNMENT ala “Frannie” and CRA ’96. The right is DEFINATELY guilty of some subsidization. THAT, however, is NOT the all pervasive entitlement mentality which, I’ll go so far as to say, is a party platform of the left and their sycophants.

If we don’t like a company or product, we have the freedom of voting with our feet and wallets. With government???…. you have NO freedom/options, and you refuse their mandates???…. you get arrested!!

Party of no? People that regurgitate that lame statement are clueless. Thanks for providing proof of your ignorance.

Craig, liberals completely ignore the fact that during that all-to-brief period when republicans ‘controlled’ Congress, the democrats blocked EVERY issue they tried to address. Remember Tom Daschle? That mealy-mouthed weasel.

Their job is to block the opposition party from passing egregious legislation. Unfortunately, it’s all become a side-show while legislation is being silently written and passed behind closed doors. Anything that we get to see is just for effect.

kate8,
they also forget that twenty years ago volkswagon was paying their workers in south america 45.00 a month then! The last estimate I saw was close to 100 dollarsw a month which lets them live a fairly good life in those countries. Their foremen were making about 300 a month.
We have let the unions push this country so high on the salary range that normal non-union workers can’t afford to live because the economy in a certain area goes up in accordence with the higher wages. There are many companies that are union that when asked what they want to bargain for, retirement or wages they always say wages! Then when the time to retire comes they want to cry that they can’t afford to live on their retirement! what happened to all that money they made when they were working? did they save or invest? Hell no, they bought new cars every year, big screens, boats, everything they didn’t need. My father lived well on a welders retirement and saved a lot. he sometimes drove cars that were 7-8 years old, but he actually owned a plane at one time a cessna 120, a tail dragger as they are called. He later sold it for just about as much as he paid for it but that doesn’t matter. he never made over 12 dollars an hour. NEVER! He invested a little, saved a little and had a reasonable retirement check. He didn’t make 35 thousand a year from his retirement from the shop, nowhere near! Now people EXPECT to retire with 50,000 a year from their employer AND make 30 dollars an hour!! And you wonder why we are losing jobs???

Craig says:
August 27, 2010 at 10:19 am

Thanks for providing proof of your ignorance, it came through load and clear

Blame it on our socialized schools that do not bother teaching anything of real value, such as correct spelling. He really means the “Party of Know”, but flunked spelling and passed spieling

You have it backwards he did mean the party of “NO”

well 350 pieces of legislation are blocked in the Senate that address the economy and employment ~ So who’s the brain dead here regarding the party of “NO”. ~ I say 350 bills stalled says “NO”! very loudly.

Who wishes to disagree?

I don’t like to see any corporation pay taxes. Any time they are taxed, they just pass it along to their comsumers. Let’s change this so called, Tax Cheat Charlie Rangel’s and Tax Cheat Geither taxes, to a more fair tax system like the fair tax instead. Maybe Congress and some of the government officials will be unable to cheat on their taxes. Just think, there is around 60,000 pages to the tax system. Why so many? Obama has hired all his Communist Buddies, and cronies that could not find decent jobs, and put them on the Federal Payroll for the hard working citizens to pay their wages. These idiots are running the country and some folks just cannot see if for some reason. Hey, come on you liberals we, the conservative, want the best for this country. Do you? We have got to clean house in Congress this Nov. or we are all sunk. I think you liberals has lost sight of the Boy Scouts Motto …

I agree, Wayne. Corporate tax is just a diversionary tactic by the politicians. They can get more money out of us if they succeed in rallying those with the green-eyed glasses to their phony cause. Corporations don’t pay tax, people pay tax.
I’m not sure the Fair Tax is the answer though. I would much rather see every adult be liable for the same tax each year. That way those of us who are responsible could just cut the Government a check and be done with it. The people who couldn’t pay would be the ones who would need to jump through the paperwork hoops explaining why they couldn’t pay. If every adult was required to pay the same taxes, you can bet that we would vote for a much smaller Government. Which is exactly the reason why we couldn’t expect most Politicians to vote for such a system.
While I do agree that we need badly to get rid of the Income Tax System, if you read this article, you might change your mind about the Fair Tax being a viable solution:
http://mises.org/daily/1814

Dave H. Another good article that you presented on the not so fair Fair-Tax.Much food for thought.

You brought up an interesting train of thought about corporate taxes. I’ve heard tell that corporations have worked out a sweet deal in partnership with the government whereby they withhold money from a workers paycheck by using a document called a W4 that you have to sign, or else… In return for this they get a pass on a whole lot of things. Think about it.

Flash: you fail to remember…oh, I forgot, our history books have been altered, so maybe you never learned…that GLOBALIZATION began in the early-mid 1960s. That’s when the “World” Trade Center was conceived. Progressivism has been going on, at the very least, for a century. Stop focussing on the last administration so much…this started too long ago for us to have to tolerate your partisan rants.

That’s why I keep saying that Obama can’t be blamed for everything. It goes back a long ways.

The party of “NO” has been for the “little” guy especially small businesss, since ever I can remember. The party of “yes” (to my money) has been screwing us in the name of “Fairness.” Look at what they’ve done since ’06. And don’t blame Bush. Congress has the “power of the purse”. Have you ever wondered why the “Big Guys” welcome more and more regulation? ‘Cuz THEY can AFFORD it. Meanwhile the little guy is out of the competition. Now, in real terms about 18% of us are out of work. Thanks “mules”.

The Rothschilds have been financing wars for hundreds of years. Financed both sides in the Civil War.

Yepper Al!

Bruce, So true. And since almost none of the democrats in office have ever had ANY business experience, including Odumbo, they have no clue about what it is like to have to actually work for a living.

It’s the ones who’ve never had to get their hands dirty who think they are above it all, and somehow think they know how to run things better.

I think we need to get rid of ALL career politicians. Having business experience should be a requirement. Otherwise, how can they class themselves as our “peers”? It is just this mindset that makes them regard themselves as “rulers” rather than “servants”.

Oh, and being a lawyer doesn’t count. Funny how they become lawyers in order to learn how to effectively twist and circumvent the law, and to get their foot in the door.

Above all, those in the Legal Profession love complexity. The more there is, the more money they make. We need to get back to the KISS principle.

I personaly think the flash-in-a-pan knows exactly what he is saying and knows he is being used and does not care.

independant thinker,
did you ever consider that he could be one of the users purposely sounding stupid to convert fense sitters? NAHHH! Just kidding!!!

Dan, as screwy as criminal justice is, it’s entirely possible that teleprompter repair could become a vertical bar hotel resume enhancer. It could be seen as an easy way to ‘create’ new jobs, especially when the economy implodes.

Average Joe Don’t forget Reagan who survived but fell in line and George Wallace who was paralyzed for life. Many were targeted but came through OK>

Average,
If we shrink Government dramatically, those with power now will see their power greatly diminished. We need to get Government (especially the Federal Government) out of the marketplace and out of our personal lives.
For Individual Freedom, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, and Limited Government, Vote Libertarian:
http://libertarianparty.org/platform

I have to agree with you…

AJP–

“Rich people” are not some monolithic, faceless “group” of sinister
people. They are human beings, with their own ideas about things.
They tend to cluster in groups, because they are experienced in the
ways of power and there is more power to be wielded in group effort.

The thing is, not all of these groups advocate the same things.
UYes, the Bilderburgers exist. Yed. they have a lot of power.
But no, that doesn’t guarantee they will get their way. There
are other groups of powerful people who oppose them. Often, they
oppose each other.

The most powerful group of people is not necessarily all that rich:
it is the American electorate.

At those rare times when this powerful group is awake and energized,
great and powerful things happen. When we are complacent, which is
most of the time, we pay for it.

Your argument promotes complacency, AJP. It tells us everything is
a setup, so we might as well give up.

Look around you at the real changes that are occurring because of the tea party movement. An awakened electorate has already, even before
the elections, become a pebble in the stream which is rapidly
growing into a boulder.

Don’t give up.

Fr. Jim, You do speak the truth, and your words give hope.

You make a good point about how many of the powerful are in oppostion to one another. This is important because evil always breeds discord and distrust within its own ranks.

We also need to be aware of much of what they say is to influence how we think. Psy-ops. They count on us believing what they tell us and, thus, we allow it to come to pass. They will sound the most confident when they are the most desperate.

This is why those who seek to enslave the world are doomed to certain failure.

The wealthy in this country have realized the “American Dream”! Our economy is fueled by their ambitious endeavors. They should not have a higher tax just because they are successful but this current administration sees money and can’t control itself.

How encouraging to see all the comments from you all about Biblical prophecy! I especially enjoyed the comment of why communism fails. As Christians, people are going to turn to us for encouragement & help in the coming disaster that is fixing to hit this nation. When our leaders publically turn against Israel, & side with the UN, we are in for some major punishment. The Bible says that God blesses those who bless Israel, & curses those who curse Israel. As of now, I don’t see anyway that we can turn the tide of the coming judgment against our nation. I do hope that I’m wrong, & if enough of us turn to God & really pray, maybe we can touch His heart. While He is going to take care of His own, that does not mean that judgment isn’t coming.

Dave I wonder how many libs will post their thoughts?I have had my own business for about forty years and that pretty much somes up what I felt the whole time.

Risk deserves full reward or full failure, not minimal reward and full failure. Incentive for risk is removed as reward for success dwindles. Incentive to succeed, Its why socialism/communisim ultimatley fails, both mute or remove personal motivators from society resulting in eventual social decay, unrest and eventual rebellion of citizens, history of 100 years of communist and socialist goverment systems clearly demonstrates.

Laus Deo
Semper Fi

Semper Fi, FreedomFighter – I’ve got a different reason why communism/socialism always fails, never succeeded and will never, under the best set of conditions they might postulate or excuses they care to give after they fail.
God won’t bless it, help energize its growth or bring success to those who lead it or live submissively under it. They are on their own. Rest assured, if God hasn’t, doesn’t or won’t bless it, it will die from internal rot. How do you spot such a system?

Proverbs is the Book of Wisdom. It says God estblished the world by wisdom. If something is to succeed it must fit within the framework of His Wisdom. Biblically,”knowledge” is information about something; “wisdom” is what to do with knowledge, how and when, in order to make something succeed. God will energize its growth from within if it fits His criteria to receive blessing.

In Proverbs 1, you read about a father teaching his son about some of the people who will try to get him to “cast in your ‘lot’ with us”. ‘lot’ = (bal)lot; “we want your ballot with us, boy”. The Dad says that one of the ways the son can know a bad (unwise) bunch is that they will all throw their profits in one purse, pot, pool, slush fund. This bunch will have an undercurrent that isn’t obvious, but basically they can be characterized as a bunch of thieves and murderers.

Well, one of the basic tenets of communism/socialism/whateverism is they’re taking all our profits and throwing them in one big pot and doling the bucks out to their buddies in crime. Meanwhile, Obama is turning the USA into a grandoise copy of Jennifer Granholm’s Michigan. Well, in order for anything to succeed it has to work within the framework of things God will bless (wisdom) and make grow from within. By now it should be obvious that Granholm is unwise – Michigan’s about dead. It also might be time to send Obama somewhere outside this world if he wants to try to make our nation fit his unwise model. His success is impossible. God’s agin’ ‘t. If the whole world became socialistic God would fold His hands and civilization would fall back into the Dark Ages (until another Martin Luther came along) or the Tribulation.

Capitalism may not be fair but it is kind and generous to people who do things God’s way (whether they know it or not).

What Mike and Mary say is both true. Additionally we lost a great deal of freedom when the Democratic president Wilson allowed the mostly then foreign owned Federal Reserve Bank to take over the Constitutional responsibilities of Congress as regards to money in 1913 (which necessitated the inauguration of the progressive income tax to pay them for the ‘service’). The dollar has lost over 95% of it value since then and it is only going to get worse. Those who do not read the Bible may not be aware that one of the prophecies in the last book, Revelation, speaks of a future world banking dictatorship run by a genius who proves to be the most evil man who has ever lived. This new system seems to be gold based and centered in the rebuilt Babylon. It also speaks of a time when it will take a days wage to buy a days food although it use terms unfamiliar to ordinary people, “…a measure of wheat for a denarii or three measures of barley for a denarii…” (in ancient times a days wage was a denarii for an ordinary worker and a measure of wheat was the amount of wheat needed for a days bread). First, of course, must come tremendous inflation, then a world wide financial collapse of all paper monies, economic chaos, probably much greater war, food shortages and in many places famine. I have come to the conclusion that this is what is going to happen and others much smarter than I have come to the same conclusion. Some think this will begin with the next two years but it could take a longer time to all play out. May God bless us all. Believers need to pray and everyone who wants to slow down the collapse of the USA needs to vote in November.

Thanks Richard – I (Mike in MI) appreciate the feedback and agree on your assessment of what God says about the world’s future. But, unless I skipped over it, I didn’t see anything about the diseases they are going to use to help depopulate the earth. They can try – and it will work – on those who rely on medicine for life support and disease maintenance in themselves. Those who don’t learn, NOW, how to get and stay healthy because of the great immune system God created in you and the power of “gifts of healings” (I Corinthians 12; 7-11; which is part of the spiritual panoply you get when you believe God raised Jesus from the dead and allow him to be your boss) are not going to be able to learn it all later. It’ll be too late.

PRAY FOR THE PEOPLE DOWN IN WASHINGTON, DC AT THE “RESTORING HONOR” RALLY – COOL WEATHER, PEACEFUL AND CALM CROWDS OF FOLKS WHO LOVE GOD AND AMERICA. AND THAT GOD’S POWERFUL LOVING PROTECTION IS MIGHTILY IN EVIDENCE.

Richard and Mike,

I agree with what you say about Revelation. I have been studying Bible prophecy for many years now, and other prophecies, as well. I have studied what others have written, and have fervently prayed for understanding, as I feel that there is more to be revealed. I have recently had some breakthroughs that I have not found anywhere else (not to say isn’t our there) and I am still receiving information that I am very excited about.

I do believe that we are in the last days. I also feel, as you do, about healing vs conventional medicine. Natural forms of healing has, for all my adult life, been a passion. I worked many years in this field, and have continued to expand my horizons into areas that are really quite astounding. I feel that vibrational and energetic healing will, at some point, be all that we are left with, and we need people who have understanding in this area. Those who continue to depend on cenventional medicine will find themselves in peril, on many levels.

It is good that God is raising people such as yourselves. You will be especially needed when those who still think things are okay get their wake up calls.

Godspeed.

Hi Mike, Jeff, Dave, Kate, SC, and all,

Just a few quick words about the 8 / 28 Rally,
{It was a “Beautiful day” in all respects.}
There were a lot of really super folks here, I have no count that would a 100% on target, but a strong guess is somewhere around 650,000 to around 800,000 Plus people.
I know the US media is saying about, 250 – 300K, but, thats VERY LOW and not even close to the true numbers.

On Friday when I got in I stayed with freieds who live in George Town so I got to bop about Friday PM, as well speak with friends from the locals all stated it was a total ZOO and they had not seen this many people since last year’s Tea Party rally.

Folks we are having a massive impact on a lot of people who are just now waking up, So please keep up the Great work!
Keep speaking with folks you meet and spreading the word!
“WE CAN WIN back our COUNTRY” from these radical bone heads.

TIME, Thanks for the report! I’ve been trying to find out how things went, but when I turned on news I didn’t hear anything.

I’m so glad you went! Way to go!

Yes, we need to keep focused on taking back our country!

Godspeed!

TIME, good friend,

As an admirer of your literary achievements on this salutary meeting place for good talk and fun, thanks for the update about 8/28. I figured if anybody would be making that scene it would be you. Wish I could have been there, but I was at a patriot’s picnic at a different site. But, I was praying for you and for God’s blessing on the “Honors” assembly – as were lots of others, too.

Again, thanks for letting us know about what you saw – write more. You’re a great man and one to whom I would (do) pay heed.

We have been a socialist country for years, but a lot of people don’t get it. Now is very clear.

As a small business owner, I’m not directly affected by much of what the Feds do. I’m more concerned about state and local affairs which affect the business. What I’m directly affected by from the Feds is the lack of oversight of the big guys running amok because of favored regulations, of the lack of oversight on products reaching me and being a concern they aren’t tainted or flawed, of the additional labor costs I incur by hiring fair versus some a-hole (usually a self righteous far Right winger) who evades taxes etc for undocumented labor without fear of punishment, and by the banks who can screw with my credit and credit lines because they paid off the past administration to get sweet heart legislation and regulations passed.

I’m directly affected because my trucks have additional maintenance because the roads are becoming worse in both raffic and condition, and I wouild love to know the wealthy fat cats are going to pay a fair share of the costs of the past admin’s financial mismanagement instead of getting the free ride they’ve had the past 10 years.

I would LOVE a public option for health care to get those leeching insurance companies off my back. That alone would increase my gros net by a significant margn allowing me to hire at the very least two more employees.

And I would absolutely become enthusiastic about where this country was headed and be willing to take more of a risk if I knew that everything propsoed by Congress wasn’t going to torn apart and denied by the party of No…and that instead of saying “no” to the little guy like me and favor everything for the welthy and elite….they for once would begin to offer a counter solution other than returning to the past admin’s policies. (Egads..anyone who wants that is certifiably nuts).

I place the blame on where we are today where it belongs..on the past admin and the GOP who shouted down and denigrated anything but favortism to graft and corruption…and I place the blame of why we can’t get out of the morass where it belongs..on the party of No, who offer no solutions but call for everything that will favor the wealthy entrenched elite and nail my hide to the wall suffering and paying for that welfare to the rich.

Come on hflashman, you don’t REALLY own a small business do you. If you do and you don’t think you are affeaced by the feds, then you are still drinking the kool-aid, or else you just don’t think at all.

I do…and I dream of the not to distant future when I can proudly tell my friends I have to pay more taxes because I hit the 250 grand income levels and the temporary welfare given in 2001 ran out.

I have 8 employees FT, 4 PT and one intern. All legal and I had no problem verifying citizenship before hiring.

Ed,
You nailed that one dead spot on!

I agree, Ed. I find it very hard to believe that somebody so ignorant could be running his own business.
For instance, Flashman says “I wouild love to know the wealthy fat cats are going to pay a fair share of the costs of the past admin’s financial mismanagement instead of getting the free ride they’ve had the past 10 years”. When in fact 50% of the wage earners (below $33,000/year) pay only 3% of the income tax. Yet they get to vote equally to those “fat cats”, even though they have very little skin in the game:
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

Still more ignorance from Flashman “I would LOVE a public option for health care to get those leeching insurance companies off my back”.
So Flashman would like the Federal Government to provide us insurance. We would go from having choices to having no choice. We would go from a private, voluntary insurance industry, which runs efficiently or fails, to a Government insurance company which is under no such constaints. And we all know how successfully government runs any business that it gets into.

Oh Why am I not suprised by Hflash’s response. In fact I would have been disapointed if he hadn’t responded as he did. We have all come to expect his leftist rants here and to every article that appears. I have begun to believe that Hflash is in fact a plant by the administration in order to spout the company line. Nice work Hflash, you are a true and dedicated follower of General and president for life Idi Amin Obama. He rings the bell and like pavlofs dog you respond as he directs. We’re on to you, you naughty little devil.

I have to go along with the Public Option. It should have been included in the health reform bill–I think it was in the beginning but they took it out to get it passed. Cheap shot.

Dave H.; The private healthcare business gouged America by over 150% in about 5 years time and you call that efficiency? That was financial terrorism especially from their CEO’s. If someone like hflashman makes good money and has a different opinion you go and call him ignorant (at least it’s slightly better than the other fellow below who kept calling him a moron). It’s your way or the highway,right. But Dave, I thought you loved everybody who made big money no matter how they get it? Free Enterprise or bust,except for hflashman.

This person has a small business and he’s not generating $250K? With 8 FT employees, 4 PT and one intern? Why even bother?

Of course he’s a libtard…I can tell by the blame game he plays…

hflashman says:
August 27, 2010 at 10:14 am

hflashman

An honest businessman, testimony before committees in our state and house in our state legislature from small business men gave testimony stating the same as you have and even a few large business gave some of the same complaints epically about transportation problems as to bad roads and lack of enough roads so traffic delays prevented them from timely movement of their goods and services and causing excessive labor and repair costs, taxes in our high tax state did not concern them. Our beloved Governor, Mr. Pawlenty vetoed bills that would have made this better and is the real causes of Businesses not moving to MN, this all om the mouths of business men. The idiots on here don’t understand that and I am stating to wonder if they are paid writers hired by big businesses, Chip is hired to throw the red meat out and they are hired to wolf it down as they are told to. There is no doubt in my mind you are a business man.

Eddie,
Where do you get your figures? They can’t gouge anybody that doesn’t let them. I don’t and will never buy Health Insurance. It is a bet against the odds that you will suffer misfortune. I prefer to bet with the odds that I won’t suffer misfortune. I eat right and live right. That is my insurance. And if I suffer misfortune, I will not burden somebody else, like you Liberals do.
So you think somehow the people in the Government would run the health insurance program more efficiently? Sure you do. But most of us know better.
Eddie says “It’s your way or the highway,right”. Eddie, it’s you and your Liberal cohorts that are trying to force us to do things we don’t want to do. Not me.
Eddie says “I thought you loved everybody who made big money no matter how they get it?”. As usual, Eddie, in his typical Liberal fashion is putting words in my mouth.
I love Freedom. And I don’t mean Freedom to take the money of others against their will, like the Liberals do.
It amazes me how the Liberals will dis the Rich who have earned their money legally and from voluntary purchasers, but then turn around and, through Government, forcibly take our money all the while thinking they have the moral highground.
Yes, Eddie, I think you are ignorant also.

Ed, If flash had a business, why would he not take advantage of a little free PR for it and announce to us all the location and the business name itself. Unless, of course, you are right which is why I agree with you.

eddie47d says:
“The private healthcare business gouged America by over 150% in about 5 years time and you call that efficiency? ”

And just how did they gouge anyone for any amount? The government on the other hand will clearly be gouging America by the simple act of putting a gun you your head and saying “Buy this product”.

Vickie; Everyone needs health insurance and everyone gets sick in their lives. Not everyone has insurance because it costs too much or they are wealthy enough to pay upfront for everything. I purchased health insurance many years ago and it went up 150% about 4-5 years ago. No pre-existing conditions for either my wife or myself. I had many policies to choose from and they all went up. That’s gouging in my book. My wife hadn’t used the policy in 32 years but you know how we have to pay these CEO’s outrageous salaries. Choice to you must mean to do without or be ripped off by another party.

Eddie47 writes:
“Vickie; Everyone needs health insurance and everyone gets sick in their lives.”

No one needs health insurance. People have gotten sick since the beginning of people. Some people can use health insurance, some can’t.

SOME people need health care. We provide a wonderful system here in America for jsut that event. We call it “the emergency room”. Most every big hospital has one. We even provide transportation with pretty lights and loud noises. No insurance required. We (the people of the US) are just that nice.

Eddie47:”I purchased health insurance many years ago and it went up 150% about 4-5 years ago. No pre-existing conditions for either my wife or myself. I had many policies to choose from and they all went up. That’s gouging in my book.”

Gouging in your book does not make it real. Sounds good and evil though. “Those evil insurance companies are gouging me again.”

Eddie47: “My wife hadn’t used the policy in 32 years but you know how we have to pay these CEO’s outrageous salaries.”

You don’t have to pay them a dime. Nor does your wife. You CHOOSE to. Unlike Obamacare where government agents will come to you with guns and demand payment. Kinda looks like a protection racket to me. Didn’t they advertise themselves as being in the insurance business

Eddie47: “Choice to you must mean to do without or be ripped off by another party.”

Refuse to be a victim. Start your own health insurance company. Then you get to figure out why the CEO gets such a salary. (Hint: Supply/Demand)

The blog here doesn’t allow multiple links so I can’t show Eddie47 the 267 MILLION google hits for “health insurance” but here is just 1 that can get quotes on a bunch of competing companies. So Eddie47 try google if you rather not start your own co-op.
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/healthinsurance/california2?allid=Goo25151&sid=040310-CA-04

Hflash:
You are truly a moron. Oh where to begin. That “partner” mentioned above is the Federal Government you moron. You stated that, “I’m not directly affected by much of what the Feds do, I’m more concerned about state and local affairs which affect the business” This article didn’t even get into what the State and local “partners” will do for you…Moron.

I can go on and on about your response, but with moron’s like you there is no use. All I can say is get your facts straight. We are NOT the party of No as you mentioned so many times…. We are the party of HELL NO! You moron.

As I have stated previously, it is waste of time to read or respond to hflashman. He, obviously is totally ignorant or history and has no comprhension of economics.

If by trucks, you mean semi-trucks, then you should know that it is the semi-trucks that are causing the condition of the roads to deteriorate. Me thinks you do not own a business, let alone know what you are talking about. You do regurgitate liberal talking points though, maybe that is you job.

The roads are deteriorating, but they are deteriorating because the Government (all levels, but especially the Federal level) is wasting our financial resources.
For the Liberals to ignore the fact that Government has been steadily growing over the decades (no matter whether Democrats or Republicans), and therefore ignore the fact that it is creeping Socialism that is ruining our country, not lack of regulation, is, well, just plain ignorant.

DaveH–All the states that took stimulus money–I thought some of this money was to go towards infrastructure–roads, etc.

Claire says:
August 27, 2010 at 2:55 pm

The money is going to infrastructure, you must not pay attention to all those signs saying so in the construction areas which are placed so you can not miss them if you are paying attention, I see them all over.

Smilee–I haven’t been out of the state of Illinois for quite awhile. I do know there is a lot of road construction going on within Illinois. My son is with IDOT.

I remember when the semi’s had signs on the back of their trailers saying they paid x amount of highway and fuel taxes (the numbers that come to mind are 1,500-2,500 dollars). At that time I worked for a state highway department and the most common remark about those signs was that the trucks did 10 times that much damage to the highways.

Yeah, Sleepee, Claire needs to pay attention to those vote-buying signs. Like this statement from a banner-ad on Ebay “If you owe less than $729,000 on your mortgage, you probably qualify for Obama’s Making Home Affordable Program”. So where did they get the money for that program – from Obama?
No, from the taxpayers. But that won’t occur to the ignorant people that tend to vote for Thieving Democrats.

smelly,
yeah, you are right. I read where there was about 30 million spent on signs alone. Such great use of taxpayers money!!!! You guys are always crying for the underpriveleged, I wonder how many low income housing units could have been built for those 30 million??? Or how many poverty stricken could have had good dental care, glasses? Health care? Food and heat this winter? Clothes? give me a break!!!

You’re right, Joe, they don’t really care about those people. They are simply buying votes.
With Liberals, you can’t trust their words, so you have to read between the lines. You are obviously a good reader.

I have enough sense to realize what is going on with “signs” that are posted. I am talking about road construction–”Road Construction Ahead” “Left Lane Closed”–and there are a lot of workers present. In some places they work during the night. The other signs regarding loans, etc. are nothing but a bunch of garbage.

‘Not directly affected by what the Feds do’? Are you kidding or what? What planet is your little business on, flashman? Mars? Jupiter? There is NOTHING on this Earth, and particularly in the good old US of A that the Feds DON’T have their fingers into, onto or taking out a lease on, and that includes your business. If you pay taxes, then Uncle Sugar is your boss, guardian angel, demonic in-law, and executioner. I cannot believe you are that naieve, or that clueless. Either that, your business is illegal and if it is, I’d be careful writing glowing reports about it on these posts!!! The walls not only haveears, they also employ spy satellites!!!!!

tg, re: flash, how is one who owns that level of a business able to spend hours every day ranting on conservatice blog sites.

Having been in small business, I know that the intrusion by government is stifling. I also have many friends who are going under, in part because of the suffocating regulations they now have to meet under this administration.

I don’t find anything flash ever says very credible. His vast level of ignorance on all fronts betrays him.

Kate8, Are you saying only old retired farts and the unemployed can blog? That would be a very small cross section of this country and not reflective of this country.

No, eddie. I’m saying that people who run businesses like flash indicated, have far more things to think about and do than sit and blog ALL DAY. EVERY DAY.

Doesn’t add up.

kate8, leave it to a liberal to try to put words in yout mouth, least of all one less creditable than flash, if that’s possible.

Jeffy poo; Do you have that broken record on speed dial?blah,blah,blah

I run a small, very small business. I publish games for the PC/MAC (only one so far, but this is only our first year). I say that to solidify MY authenticity.
Now here is my point: I myself barely find enough time to blog, even with just 3 PT employees. Yes, I said very small, and now you can see why.
Fear not, friends, country men/women.
The liberals are losing ground. They are in their death throes. And like an animal that has been backed into a corner, they will fight to the bitter end. However, one doesn’t fight so sloppily unless they are afraid. And one knows not fear if they do not doubt their own beliefs, because if they had true conviction, they would never doubt and therefore they would see no reason to defend that which is obviously true in their minds… In other words, deep down, even liberals think they are liars.
Also, they should pay more attention to their spelling. It only hurts their credibility.

SL Johnson, You have a point. Most of these libs don’t have the intelligence and/or the education to know how to run a business.

hflashman: I don’t believe that you’re a small business owner. I absolutely can’t believe that you are a citizen of the United States of America. We believe in a capatalist society, not a society of leeches. The reason why the roads are in disrepair is because the government misuses the money that it strongarms from the people. The reason why our economy is in such tatters is because the government is bought by big names and lobbyists. If the government would get out of the system, we would have competition. We would be able to choose whether or not to patronize certain businesses. The bad ones would go out and the good ones would continue to do business. Just wait until the system you tout goes into place. You and no one else will have any incentive to work. Why work when you can do nothing and still get a check from the government off of the back of another person? Eventually they will run out of money because they not only give it to the lazy who don’t work but they spend our money so lavishly on themselves. I’ll wait to see your response in 20 years when our country no longer exists as we know it and we are total slaves to the government. Haven’t you ever heard the phrase “I sold my soul to the company store.” The government is the company store and we will have no choice but to hand our money over to it and never be allowed to leave.

Well said, Dogswife.
I suspect that Flashman is lying about having his own business. My guess is that he works for the Government.

DaveH, If flash works for the government, then either he is wasting our money by sitting all day playing on his computer, or he is part of a “community organization” and his job IS harrassing blogsites.

Oh wait, that is STILL wasting our money.

dogswife; Those corporations and businesses that you mention are the ones who hire the lobbyists. Those corporations gouge America so wouldn’t they be the leeches?

They couldn’t do that without Big Government aiding and abetting them. And you Ignorant Liberals want to make it even bigger.

DaveH, the liberals never be able to will figure it out.

Jeff H. But we do have you figured out!

eddie47d: If those corporations were not able to bribe legislators via lobbyists, they wouldn’t be able to manipulate law to their advantage. As far as SS is concerned, it is and will be a monumental task, but no person should be forced to pay in for another person. People need to have their taxes cut and start saving and their grown children need to be more responsible for the elderly. My husbands parents both stayed at home and were cared for by their children until they died. The mother had dememtia. Their parents had savings, health insurance and a paid for home. They planned and so should everyone else.

One of the things I remember as a child is my mother telling me,”Wake up and smell the roses.” I think that is something that we all need to do.

So, hflashman … let’s see, you run your own business and are HAPPY to be able to pay more taxes to the Federal government so that all of those undocumented workers that the “fat cats” employ can have a public option! If you’re a small business man, I’m a 767 jet pilot. It’s exactly that kind of circular thinking that both exposes you liberals for what you are and creates 90% of the problems that this country now faces. Along that same vein, do you think that George Soros is a “fat cat”? He giggles every time he reads one of the posts from mindless followers like you.

Go back to Russia ya fake!

hflashman, Fat cat, fat cat, fat cat___is that the only word you know?__ You sound like a classic case, of Class Envy___You can be a Fat cat too___put in the hours___hire the workers___pay 45-50% to the Fed, healthcare, overhead__ and work your ass off 16-18 hours a day with little or NO incentives.___The difference between a small business owner, and a so called Fat Cat, is the Fat Cat has more money left at the end of the month than the small business, inturn the Fat Cat, pays a good CPA who knows all the legal loopholes in around our tax base.__I was a small buisness owner as well,back in the 80′s until I lost everything in a fire. I thought seriously last year of starting again, but the thought of paying the Fed 30% and or above, for a water color and/or oil on canvas pictures I paint?__They can kiss my azz, I’ll give them away first, I’ll paint for me and GOD___not the Fed!!

hflashman__if your a businessman, I’m atilla the hun!!!__Blame Bush!!!Get some other material will ya flash, your show sucks, ya just can’t use old wornout material!!!___ you libs have abused it enough. It didn’t work before and blaming bush isn’t gonna change a damn thing now___Each admin had it’s problems, since your such a MR know it all__ how’s about you running for office, or better yet just beat feet outta here, cuz your a bore!

Seriously, hflash, you could have tried to make your story sound a little more believable. Tell your puppetmaster that he needs to hire more qualified propagandists instead of radical ideologues.

hflashman – - -YOU’RE BUSTED!
Anyone legitimately involved in trucking (real trucking not some fly by night with a box truck) is aware on a daily basis of the amount of FEDERAL regulation applying only to the trucking industry. I’m speaking of everything from the amount of record keeping required to document compliance (everything from hours of service to maintenance logs on equipment to tariff compliance) to the frequency of inspections and maintenance and the certifications required to be maintained.
For general information. Most of you aren’t aware of the content of the book of federal regulations that every commercially licensed driver has to know and abide by. It is almost 2 inches thick and printed in closely set 8 and 10 point type.
On top of this each state has their own specific regulations that need to be followed while you are in their jurisdiction. Everything from split speed limits to where you can park during your rest periods. A lot of states have 8 hour parking restrictions while the federal law requires a 10 hour off duty period.

If old “blame game” is keeping you from stepping up to the plate with any form of plan for national, local or state improvement, discard it along with your false pride and profess your ingenuity before your eager audience. Your party of choice has miserably failed to produce anything that can withstand the trials of parasites hungrily waiting at government trough or screening demanded by a more astute public. When blind pride of a majority with a silver tongued leader railroads the ideology of appointed czars consider that the only power of the minority in congress is to trumpet the ignorance of bullheaded incumbents continuing to railroad legislative destructive on all future generations rather than enforce the common sense necessary for your survival. What is truly shameful is the total lack of support by mass media for the only positive attempts in congress by the “party of whoa” to slow down the donkey pulling the destruction that you so clearly support.
“Did you forget to use the term “moving forward” without even a vague attempt to describe the intended destination or the guaranteed failure? Or perhaps you would care to extend your own plan of a glorious future for yourself and get laughed out of the blog. Perhaps with a little diversification and some shoe polish you could apply for some of the $1.2 billion being uncovered in the USDA give away delivered in the senate by a junior from Illinois. With your attitude you may even qualify with a tan or oxblood profile. You could even rest your futile exercise when you get paid for your vote.

JFC the first words out of a libtards mouth is Bush’s spent all that money, so like that means your commie buddies can spend and tax even more? ”net gross” what type of bullsh*& term is that? You do not own a business. So go ahead, rant all the f*&^ing liberal Dumbocrats talking points you want, oh by the way take ”your fair share” and stuff it up your a$$. Sorry but I am really peeved at dumb liberals who threaten our country and our way of life, (and this is the cleaned version) can not Google Fannie May and Freddy Mac, and Bush’s tries to fix, and offers their same old failed policies and lies. Maybe you should post at PMSBC, their readers are not educated and believe any commie crap you write. And God forbid if you should support any of your craziness with facts, or like Rham likes to say “What are facts, just useless pieces of information that get in the way of the truth.” FAHPOSLB rot in Hades.

FLASH’N TH’PANMAN – You are SOO-O-O-O-o-o-.-.-. gullible.

What’s worse is you think we are, too. You’re paying out $138,00 at least in wages paying your 8 FT people minimum wage plus employment taxes. Plus, maybe, another quarter of that much to PT workers. I doubt your personal salary is a big goose egg. Legitimate businesses require some kind(s) of insurance. Equipment? Office or business space (even home or apartment with utilities, water, maintenance, etc. costs a bundle in liberal MN)? Transportation? Local and state taxes, licenses, fees? Now, tell us, do you really have a business requiring that much help with no other overhead?

And you say you’re about to break $250,000? What is this business – hiring illegals to sell dope? Or are your employees all women working the corners and streets downtown? Well, you are a liberal, so we have to consider the possibility. (No wonder you need the Public Option…or is it Pubic Option?

hflashman, you can’t live in your dad’s basement forever chugging down RC colas,and stuffing you’re face with “Moon Pies”, you need to get out in the real world and smell the “Facism”.

hflashman

To think the FED doesn’t effect you much is the largest mistake one could make. There a video on google called the Secret of Oz (and many others I’m sure) that can tell you what I can;t in this forum. (I’m recommending this video only for the historical impact the FED (and those that created it have on this country… I’m not for or against at this point the “fix” for the problem.. that need more study)

Other wise the things that bother you surely are the same things that are bothering many others on this forum. However using “Right Wing Ass” to define our many countrymen who share a great majority of the same concerns doesn’t help. I do how ever wish both sides of the political spectrum come to as full of a realization that their own favorite political party is as screwed up and anti american (meaning we the working/non-elite class) as the “enemy” party. It’s all a shell game which far too many people are still blind to. (though they’ll swear they know what’s going on and I’m either a conspiracy theorist (left wingers call me that) or I’m a godless commie sympathizer (right wingers) Thank god many of my brothers and sisters are awakening to illusion both sides of the table have been operating under for decades if not centuries.

hflashman….You a business owner??…balony! How can you operate and professionally manage a business while typing on a BLOG all day? I am a retired business man and I can assure you I did not have time to participate on a blog while managing my business.

Business owner! Get out of here, your business is BLOGS. The question would be, who is paying you?

Mr Porters paper provides food for thought but it has tons of data that can’t be verified! I do not get excited if the critical numbers can be proven, but alas this can not be done. In a couple of years we will know for sure.

But such an idea where 1/2 your profit is taken, NO small starting out business could survive such a thing.

That 50% item is a lie…it’s closer to 35%. 50% when you add in state and local taxes and fees. It would be MUCH lower if the big guys and the employers of undcoumented labor were forced to play under the same rules.

I own a small automotive repair shop, and I don’t know where you are living, chief, but at the end of the year, it is %45-%50 just in fed. Local and state are minimal. Maybe you need to be audited just to make sure you’re paying your fair share. Having some IRS thugs come to your place of work or home would be just a blast to you, I’m sure.

Some states don’t have sales tax and some don’t have a state income tax.

Okay, let’s put some reality into this discussion. Government at all levels spends 37% of our Gross Domestic Product. Not 50%, but still a lions share of our income. How many of us would voluntarily pay 37% of our income for the services that the Government offers? Not me.
Hong Kong gets by on Government spending of 15% of their GDP. And Hong Kong has a robust economy. Why is that? Are they nicer than us? They don’t need so much oversight? Probably they are just smarter than us (at least smarter than our Liberals).

Bob – a very quick look shows there are 7 states without income tax and seems like from what I can tell they make up for it with almost excessive sales taxes. Have a Google and see what you find. Also there appear to be two states that have neither personal income tax or sales tax: Alaska and New Hampshire. I didn’t check to see how recent this info was -

Liberty,
Here is a pretty good article on state by state taxes:
http://retirementliving.com/RLtaxes.html

Here is a side of the undocumented worker story that few people are exposed to:
http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html

Although I certainly don’t condone illegal entry into this country, the illegal aliens aren’t the cause of our economic decay. Big Government is the cause of our economic decay.

The politicians in government have always had bigger ideas than “our” wallets. It is so easy to spend someone else’s money.

Yesterday I heard on the news that Springfield, Illinois was #4 in the category of being one of the best cities to live in regarding the cost of homes, taxes, etc.

DaveH – thanks -

Dave H. Wow,I’m impressed by you having the courage to post that web site on immigration (reason.org). Immigration is a problem but that takes a little steam out of those who claim these people are “stealing” from us.

Commonsense says:
August 27, 2010 at 10:58 am

Businesses that are S-Corps, LLC’s or Partnerships pay no income taxes at all they file what is commonly referred to a pass through income tax form which determines what portion of the profits the owners must declare on their personal income tax forms usually form 1040 and is the equivalent of wages or dividends. How do I know I file one every year and the business never has to pay income taxes, but to hear conservatives say it we are raising income taxes on small businesses when in fact there is no such tax. So much of conservative rhetoric is misleading or outright false, but many on here don’t get that.

You actually read the article, Eddie? There may be hope for you yet.

Smilee says:
“Businesses that are S-Corps, LLC’s or Partnerships pay no income taxes at all they file what is commonly referred to a pass through income tax form which determines what portion of the profits the owners must declare on their personal income tax forms usually form 1040 and is the equivalent of wages or dividends. How do I know I file one every year and the business never has to pay income taxes, but to hear conservatives say it we are raising income taxes on small businesses when in fact there is no such tax. So much of conservative rhetoric is misleading or outright false, but many on here don’t get that.”

So let me see. The business makes a profit. That profit goes to the “partners” The partners have to split their profit with the “partner government”

If the business had to pay tax on the profit before paying the partners then the government partner would have gotten 35% of the profit from the business and then 35% from each of the partners for a total of 35% of the profit.

A difference that makes no difference is no difference. The business had to pay income tax.

Smilee says “Businesses that are S-Corps, LLC’s or Partnerships pay no income taxes at all”. Then later in the same comment, Smilee says “but to hear conservatives say it we are raising income taxes on small businesses when in fact there is no such tax. So much of conservative rhetoric is misleading or outright false, but many on here don’t get that”.
Typical Liberal equivocation. There are several types of entities that a business (big or small) may choose to operate as. Sleepee chose to mention only the ones that don’t pay income taxes as a separate entitie (but as Vicki pointed out their profits are still taxed at the personal level).

commonsense,
It may not be a blast to him to have them visit him, but it sure would entertain me if they visited him. Especially if they sold popcorn!!!! Gimme a comfortable lawnchair close by, a cold coke and a bag of popcorn and it would be better than a night at the movies watching a premiere!!!!

vicki says:
August 27, 2010 at 9:55 pm

So let me see. The business makes a profit. That profit goes to the “partners” The partners have to split their profit with the “partner government”

If the business had to pay tax on the profit before paying the partners then the government partner would have gotten 35% of the profit from the business and then 35% from each of the partners for a total of 35% of the profit.

A difference that makes no difference is no difference. The business had to pay income tax.

______________________________________________________
You have a complete misunderstanding of these type of business tax law!!

There is a big difference with business profits and the money the owners receive in either wages or dividends as personal income or both. If they pay themselves wages that is deductible for their business like any employee of theirs who is not an owner and any other monies they draw from their company become personnel income and is not profit any profit not passed on as personnel income to the owners is not taxed, if those portions of the profit are used to expand or maintain the business and then it is not taxed. The business pays no tax and the tax form the business is required to file only determines the portion of the profits that is the personal income of the owners and is not different than any income a non owner person gets and is taxed in the identical manner, what your trying to do is create a special tax break for small business owners over and above what these type of business get as opposed to other type of businesses and this is why they create this type of business for themselves to lower their taxes and liabilities and many out there are spinning this reality to create the illusion they will have to pay more taxes than non business people and this is not true, they actually have an tax advantage witch you ignore and that is why they are in fact very different.

DaveH says:
August 28, 2010 at 11:43 am

Smilee says “Businesses that are S-Corps, LLC’s or Partnerships pay no income taxes at all”. Then later in the same comment, Smilee says “but to hear conservatives say it we are raising income taxes on small businesses when in fact there is no such tax. So much of conservative rhetoric is misleading or outright false, but many on here don’t get that”.
Typical Liberal equivocation. There are several types of entities that a business (big or small) may choose to operate as. Sleepee chose to mention only the ones that don’t pay income taxes as a separate entitie (but as Vicki pointed out their profits are still taxed at the personal level).

____________________________________________________________

Davie

The truth I state is neither liberal or conservative it is simply the truth and then factual and you in fact admit that about the type of businesses I addressed and then you go into spin mode and attempt to crate the illusion that the money they receive from these companies is profit when in fact it is personal income they have received as either earned or unearned income despite it is not the profit of the business and these income these owners receive are identical for tax purposes for any income anyone receives weather earned or unearned even if they are none business owners, your spin creates the illusion that they are unfairly taxed as opposed to others when in fact they probably are at an advantage and anyone who understand this tax law knows full well so you are either ignorant of it or have an agenda that wants to crate this illusion for reasons you have failed to disclose to this conversation, but thanks for admitting these business pay no taxes themselves.

I don’t think Smilee knows tax law anywhere near as well as he/she thinks.

“Just as the IRS taxes individuals’ income, such as income from a job, it also taxes the income a business brings in. And, in the same way that an individual can lower her taxable income through credits and deductions, so can a small business.”
http://www.inc.com/articles/2002/02/18957.html
Note the IRS does not care about “profit” just income. Gross income to be precise. What is left after the IRS is thru is what business might consider “profit”.

Now just like personal income there are “deductions”

But the more important point is that business NEVER pays the tax in the end. The CUSTOMER ALWAYS pays. If the tax is lower for any reason the business does not have to charge as much for the product. Competition is what forces a business to lower their “profit” by lowering their prices. Smart competition looks for the price/volume/availability sweet spot.

Vicki says:
August 30, 2010 at 1:37 pm

Well for your information I have filed the business tax forms for my business since 1992 (17 years) and my individual tax forms every year since 1962 (48 years) myself as well as individual tax forms for many others so I very well understand income taxes. It is you who does not understand them. The url you reference and its article does not deal with S-Corp, LLC. Partnerships etc. which has their own tax form different from other business and these business as a business is exempt from paying income taxes but the personal individual income received by the owner for personal use aside from any wages he may pay himself is determined by this tax form and must like any other income be included on his individual income and it is not business income or profit in fact the tax form does not determine the profit. On the individual tax form there are two income that are relevant and that is adjusted gross income (different form gross income in some cases) and taxable income after subtracting all deductions standard or otherwise and it is this income that you pay tax on and small business owners pay the same as non business persons. It is clear you do not understand this by your statements regarding it. Having done it so often, I do understand it and have a lot of experience at it and I am always amazed by the large amount of misinformation about small business incomes. Conservatives have done a very good job of spinning this issue and creating all this misinformation and you seem to buy into it.

Smiliee says S-Corp pays no taxes. Provides no links to support his assertions. Ignores the fact that S-Corps do exactly as I said and that is pass the income to the share-holders who pay the income tax at their individual rate.

Thus a tax that is not a tax that is a tax. The corp paid the tax the same way any non-s corp does. Passes it on to individuals. From the government side the money still comes in.
Which of course was my original example.

here is a link btw
http://www.taxguru.org/corps/scorp.htm

Oh and to add insult to injury the individuals have to pay the tax even if they do not take out a dime of that income from the company.
(see previous link for stories)

“With an S corp, the shareholders are required to pay income tax on their share of the corporation’s income whether they take any money out of the corporate account or leave it in there. A few years ago, I wrote about the consulting client who had to include over $300,000 of S corp income on his 1040, when he had only taken out about $30,000. It wasn’t bad enough that he had to pay more income tax than he had received, but things were much worse. He had a child support arrangement requiring him to pay 29% of his adjusted gross income (AGI) each year. This meant he had to pay 29% of the $300,000 to his ex-wife.”

The government remains the strong-arm partner. Lots of unintended consequences lying about too.

vicki says:
August 31, 2010 at 3:27 pm

Try looking at the form and the instructions on the IRS website as I previously recommended then you will find the truth instead of reading these propaganda sites you refer us to. Maybe you are not smart enough to understand these taxes but at least look at the IRS forms and instructions before you shoot your big mouth off. This is an issue I am very familiar with and I will not let a know nothing spin the truth on it.

my my my Smilee is full of ad hominum attacks this morning. Just SOME of those links I provided happen to be to the folk who actually DO tax prep and deal with the IRS. Silly me for not noticing the propaganda there. (Prob from the IRS

With respect to tax law I will bow to Smilee’s knowledge as I have an accountant. However the point was and is that the government gets its money. That would be a “bottom line” for those of you actually in business Doesn’t matter what you call it. A tax. A fee. A racket. The government is your (big bully) partner (That being the point of both the article and my comments).

And remember all taxes are paid by individuals, usually the consumer, one way or another.

Vicki says:
September 1, 2010 at 3:09 pm

Spin,Spin, Spin, no wonder your so confused and mixed up

Time, you are so right, business’s around here (east coast) are dropping like flys, we’ve lived in a depressed area for well over 15 years now, more like 20-25, since industry is gone. I’ll repeat once more, if you don’t bang a cash register, work for yourself, or in the medical field, your screwed for a job around here. It’s quite depressing. A gas station just shut down the road from us, landscapers are becoming non-existant, luxury services, such as hair & nail salons are hurting as well. Bars are hurting, cuz folks are either, buying a six pack and taking them home, or they just stopped drinking, and the non smoking just made matters worse__ I hope the Obama Administration are proud of themselves, with business’s dropping off, they won’t be getting any taxes form them.__ what will they tax next!___America is in a sad state of affairs, worse than I’ve seen in my life time and I’m 54.__God bless

Hey Angel Mustabee -
Obama and his Admin. are proud of themselves. Have they, to date, backed away from or modified much of anything in their agenda? Joe Bidenmytime was out there yesterday reiterating that we’re on the right track, sailing back into port, not going down the “Bush Road” programs of the past. YUP, they are proud of themselves. They set out to “fundamentally change America” and you can ask the gas station owner down the road if he’s got his change yet or knows what his next hope will look like. Ask the homeowners who are being foreclosed if the manner they are underwater is much different (to them) than how Katrina’s victims were underwater. What’s going to happen THIS winter?

Maybe algore will sell them some Carbon Credits and Obama’s conflit of interest in giving us the Green Weeney will warm all our hearts this winter.

Bless you, stay warm kido.

Mikie Mi, Oh yeah, the libs keep sayin’ ‘were on the road to recovery___Eh Where?____Utopia, must be a grand island or the White House windows need washing, because, the Bambi Administration is loookin over reality in Disney land!__Ill connected to America and reality. As far as stayin warm, I will, I just put a wood stove in, my thermostat will stay low enough to keep the pipes from freezin’__They can kiss my azz, for higher oil prices___ as for lighting, I got a plenty of kero for kerosine lights, life hands ya lemons ya make lemonade, sides, I’m used to tough times. Its kept me a survivalist and not a whiner at 54!I can survive with the best and have!

I to have seen a noticeable increase in buildings along main streets with “for lease” signs in the windows. These are in commercial retail areas of town. It’s not pretty.

vicki,
Yup, fewer department stores and more dollar stores!!!

I found your family story very interesting as well as thought-provoking – All this happened right under our “sleeping” eyes, one step at a time. And it continues. Perhaps we are waking up.