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Green Lies About Oil Sands Put America's Energy Future At Risk

July 28, 2010 by  

Green Lies About Oil Sands Put America's Energy Future At Risk

Alberta’s oil sands are back on the Green’s hit list. And this time the Greens are playing dirty.

A couple of weeks ago the San Francisco based environmental group, Corporate Ethics International—which has few ethics and works closely with the Sierra Club and Greenpeace—spent $50,000 erecting billboards in Denver, Portland, Seattle and Minneapolis that deride Alberta as home to "the other oil disaster.” The campaign urges tourists not to go there.

The billboards—which may be coming to a city near you even if you live in Europe—showcase a dead duck found in a Syncrude tailings pond and an oil-soaked pelican in the Gulf of Mexico.

Now I have been to Alberta’s oil sands on a couple of occasions and I can tell you that the land is scarred. Squeezing oil out of shale is a tough and dirty business and the waste ponds there do kill ducks, although hardly enough to create a frenzy over. In fact fewer ducks die from being soaked in tailings ponds in the oil sands than are killed by flying into wind power turbines.

I need to make one more point: Canada produces 2 percent of the world’s greenhouse-gas emissions and the oil sands account for about 5 percent of that total. So while the Fort McMurray area is tarnished, it has a smaller carbon footprint on the world than a handful of Chinese coal-fired power plants. Still I can’t remember Greenpeace damning people that went to the Summer Olympics in Beijing.

I can also tell you that the last time I was up in the Fort McMurray area where Alberta’s giant oil sands are located was October, 2001. I took this trip in the wake of blown-up buildings and murdered Americans—Americans killed by Arabs, most of them Saudis, whose oil production American Greens don’t seem to have a problem with.

At that time I told my subscribers to Outstanding Investments that if I had to choose between energy security and some scarred land I would choose energy security. I also told them that if I had to choose between ducks and people; I would choose people every time.

My real outrage over this slander by the Greens against Alberta is that it is full of lies and it doesn’t even target what the environmentalists consider to be the problem—the oil sands themselves. Instead, it goes after an entire province and its tourist industry.

It was a topic of conversation here in Calgary last week at the Pacific Northwest Economic Region Summit. I was on hand and heard as people in business and government on both sides of the United States/Canada border condemned the latest smear tactics.

“I voted with my feet, I’m here (in Calgary),” said David Jacobson, the U.S. Ambassador to Canada. “To tell you the truth I think that ad campaign makes about as much sense for people not to come to Alberta to vacation because of the oil sands as it does for people not to visit Chicago because Illinois has coal.”

As an American who was born and now lives in Alberta, I can tell you it is a majestic place to visit. I have not seen greater beauty anywhere in the world than the Rocky Mountains that flank Calgary.

You might think that the Corporate Ethics group would understand that propaganda doesn’t work when the truth is allowed to get out.

Even the infamous liar, Supreme leader Kim Jong-il, has a better understanding of propaganda writes the Montreal Gazette: “The North Koreans don’t let their citizens travel. That is why Corporate Ethics International would like Alberta to be as isolated as Albania.”

There is just another tiny problem with the Alberta attack ads—they are filled without outright lies. Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach is particularly angry at the anti-Alberta ads, calling them a "propaganda campaign that is full of lies.”

Stelmach pointed out that claims about the size of the oil sands development, as well as the damage to water and air, are all grossly wrong.

Corporate Ethics International claims that Alberta’s oil sands are “twice the size of England.”

Not even close says Travis Davies, a spokesman for the Canadian Association of Petroleum. "There is a massive difference between 260,000 square kilometres and the reality of the Alberta oil sands, which is 600 sq. km. impacted and 65 sq. km. reclaimed." So much for truth in advertising.

Still, Alberta’s oil sands might seem like an easy target for the environmentalists, even in an age where radicals in the Middle East are targeting the U.S. That doesn’t mean that the Greens are being honest about the utility of Alberta’s oil sands.

“The environmental risks of the oil sands have been greatly exaggerated and overblown by activist organizations that have different agendas,” says Hal Kvisle, the former CEO of TransCanada, a North American pipeline giant. “These parties, such as Natural Resources Defense Council and Greenpeace, make statements about the oil sands that mostly aren’t true.”

America Needs Alberta’s Blue-Eyed Sheiks
I have some other news for the Greens—if they want to count on Arab oil—some of it from places where extremists continue to plot death and destruction on America—Alberta has plenty of other buyers. In fact China must be tickled pink at the Greens’ attack on Alberta because they are plowing plenty of money into Alberta’s oil sands so that they can secure their energy future in America’s backyard.

As for the U.S., it is on track to import as much as 3 million barrels of oil per day from Alberta’s oil sands by the end of this decade. Right now the U.S. consumes almost 1 million barrels per day of Canadian oil sands. Yet there are Greens in the Obama administration and in the Democrat party that want to derail oil sands imports in pursuit of more expensive green energy technologies—technologies that frankly do not yet exist and may not exist for years or even generations.

The politics of Green are blissfully ignorant that Canada has one of the largest stable oil deposits in the world just a scant distance from America’s borders.

If the Greens get their way and reduce or shut down the flow of Canadian oil, the U.S. will be more vulnerable, paying higher energy prices; in some cases for oil held by maniacal mullahs. And inevitably, China, America’s major competitor, will be enriched and empowered. If you ask me, it is a pretty stiff price to pay over some dead ducks.

Action To Take
Could Alberta’s oil sands do a better job of cleaning up the mess they are making? You bet. Meanwhile there is too much at stake for the U.S. to turn its back on this rich and secure energy source. As a result oil sands stocks will continue to prosper. I recommend you buy Suncor Energy Inc. (NYSE, SU, $30.82) and Canadian Oil Sands Trust (TSX: COS-UN.TO, C$27.52).

In fact just last week the Oil & Gas Journal wrote: “The blowout in the Gulf of Mexico and resulting ban on deepwater drilling in U.S. waters may prove a boon for Canadian oil producers,” including oil sands stocks. I couldn’t agree more.

Yours for real wealth and good health,

John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Purcupile

    I find it interesting to note that what I understood John’s main premise of his article to be was the unethical attack on the tourist economy of Alberta, is ignored by the “greens” writing to attack John and the producers of oil from shale. Ethics to them seems to be term they are totally unfamiliar with. Their belief is that they can say and do anything at the expense of ethics and morality as well as innocent hardworking families trying to make a living while not being involved in the oil shale business at all.

    They avoid responding to John’s specific criticisms by ignoring them and steering the argument to things like the U.S. southern borders, or stating opinions as facts…for instance DocSarvis’ statement about strip mining. Another common tactic is to use prejorative words like lunatic, or fool to describe someone who has a different opinion than theirs…this tactic is commonplace in their method of debate. It is unfortunate that in their small misguided minds their opinion is the only one that counts. These are subjects that need to be debated…we do need to find other, new and cleaner sources of energy but we have to wait until it is developed and in the meantime we need to utilize the sources of energy that are available to us today.

    • Al Sieber

      You are right on.

    • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

      But that would be common sense, which is not a tool in the liberal toolshed.

    • ross

      RE: the Utopians’ lack of ethics in debate or conflict in general…
      we Non-Utopians are slow to identify where those tactics come
      from.

      The leadership of Leftwing causes are devotees of Alinsky. They
      see their causes as so important that guerilla tactics in general
      are necessary; hence the name-calling, lies, obfuscation, and the
      recruitment of the gullible (they lie to their rank-and-file
      troops,’cause the troops never question Carl Pope, et al). The end
      justifies the means, in their guilty-to-be-on-the-planet mindset.

  • Oil Barron

    I put the “Oil Disaster” in the Gulf directly on the heads of Green Peace, the Sierra Club, and all the other missinformed tree hugger types. The disaster is a direct result of them pushing the Oil companies farther and farther offshore and into VERY deep water. If they were allowed to drill closer to shore they wouldn’t have to contend with problems caused from over a mile deep of water, current and storms and wouldn’t have these misshaps. These depths astonomically increase the chances of disaster.

    • Al Sieber

      Oil Barron, theres a whole lot that doesn’t add up with that story in the Gulf.

    • malc da falc

      Oil Barron I find it hilarious that your post is identical to what Rush Limbaugh said about the Sierra Club being responsible for the Oil Spill. In case you didn’t know the Sierra Club doesn’t condone ANY offshore drilling whether its close to shore or far away. The fact that you actually listen to and trust Rush Limbaugh is laughable and a lil scary.

      To everyone that says the Sierra Club is all about the Greenbacks please explain to me why all those people work for a non-profit? Because you didn’t know that’s what the Sierra Club is, a non-profit company. There are similar position in private environmental consulting firms where these people could be making 2-3 times as much money. The people working at these organizations are fighting for what they believe and standing up to things they think are wrong. It’s no different than someone who is completely pro-oil, they just disagree. Wasn’t American founded on the idea of freedom of expression? Can that not translate into your work place?

      • Bob Wire

        ha ha!! not sure what kind of “oil barron” we got here.

        I might even enjoy such a title as I receive royalties as they horizontal drill under my house! ~ I got people wanting to buy my royalties every few days. I think I might get the big head soon if it continues.

        Oil Companies have be restricted some, sure you bet! We can’t allow such activity’s just anywhere. Reasons are many. But They drill where they are allowed to drill and they feel certain they can reach it and be cost effective. Nobody made them drill! They choice to drill.

        This deferred blame and guilt was cute at one time, like when we were 3 and 4, but it’s beginning to get old.

        So let’s blame everyone “BUT” Bp for oil in the water?

        ~ Don’t blame the Rapist ! blame the victim!

        If she hadn’t been there it wouldn’t have happened!

      • Doug

        Non profit is another way for people to get paid way to much money for doing little! Maybe you should check the salaries of the top people in the Sierra club.

      • eddie47d

        Maybe you should check into Rehab or maybe you could join the Sierra Club and really do some good.

      • ross

        …”non-profit”…words designed to extract donations from the gullible…it works well, along with misleading photos and outright lies(Spotted Owl fiasco). Sierra Club supporters are notorious for their economic illiteracy.

        And their fannypacks worn in front…

      • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

        Enough with the altruism. I have experience with non-profits. I have founded one. I know lots of people in them. In many cases they are habitats for self-serving activity. Many of the employees are there because the job was easier to compete for. Please don’t be naive as to think that non-profits don’t manipulate their surpluses in creative ways.

  • Halbert

    Why didn’t Bush Cheney think of this when they were the fearless leader?

    • Doug

      they were to busy meeting with Obama puppet master same crap different day at least they are not Marxist list most liberals are.

  • Only in America

    Canada can start killing their rivers like China does.

    • eddie47d

      They are working on it.

    • JC

      Absolute propogandist “greeny” garbage!
      God but you watermelons are gullible.

  • LARRY

    WE HAVE TO MANY BIRDS ANY HOW,AND TO MANY LIBERALS AND TO MANY ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND TO MANY MUSLIMS!

    • William

      right Larry. now if we could just elimenate a lot of the birds and all of the liberals and muslims,

      • Mondovibe

        your hitler mentality is loud and clear…never forget

  • Lost and Found

    Myers sure likes that oil.

  • Whisky Joe

    I prefer NAT GAS and nuclear

  • Hot Dog

    Some times people make wild statements. so the ads are a request for donations. We today are huge users and producers of energy. If we did not produce energy, our trade balance w. china would look even more skewed. We need to revert to more coal usage,(electricity). To do this we must upgrade our power transfer technology to eliminate the need for gasoline/diesel engines. It would be nice to say,”oh, riding a bicycle will eliminate the need for oil”. I love biking ,however, lots of modern bike parts are made from oil as are your computer, cellphone, as well as lubricants. All this may be done w. coal. Powering vehicles w. USA sourced natural gas is only a minor step. Powering cars w. power strips in the interstate system will eliminate the need for large batteries in electric cars,(and the current thing a gasoline motor). The purchase of the power can be sensed by EZ Pass technology. You just swipe your card at the gas station now? Why not have your EZ Pass carry your fuel bill? And stop paying to haul that explosive gasoline down the road? BACK TO COAL!!!!!

  • Tar Ball

    At least the Sierra Club stands up when everyone else looks the other way.

    • Al Sieber

      Tar Balls, the Sierra Club, among others; condemn the land, steal it or buy it cheap then sell it for a profit. they don’t care about the environment. just money.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Please tell me when the Sierra Club bought land and sold it for a profit or when the stole land-Please.

      • Al Sieber

        Doc Savris, prove me wrong!!!!

      • Al Sieber

        Doc., You can’t prove anything, can you?

      • ross

        Doc, it’s always nice to see virginity.

        The Sierra Club, et al presses for and brings action against private uses of land, claiming environmental hazard, need for wetlands classification, existence of threatened/endangered species, etc. etc. ad infinitum. These are often trumped up, with no factual basis. The environmentalists’ pockets are deep, given the fact that much of their money for legal action comes from taxpayers and an endless line of well-meaning Urban Shut-ins.

        The private landowner gives up, financially and emotionally, sometimes after YEARS of conflict. The land use he HAD, or envisioned, or anticipated, is disallowed. Therefore, VALUE is taken from him.

        But not to worry!!! In what can only be described as sheer coincidence, THE NATURE CONCERVANCY, THE TRUST FOR PUBLIC LANDS, or other similar group, is standing nearby, ready to buy the now greatly devalued real estate, thereby rescuing the poor ba$t*rd that had plans for his land.

        Are you really as naiive as you sound?

        Maybe so, and as I said–virginity is to be valued. Carry on!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Al Sieber,
        And they have done SO MUCH to stop all the enviromental damage done to the trails coming into the US by the illegals!! Such stand-up citizens I never saw before!!!

    • Craig

      Yeah wasn’t it the Sierra Bozos that tried to telling us polar bears were dieing off and it was all do to that hoax, man made global warming. I loved the picture of a polar bear on a tiny iceberg. Too bad the lying A hole Sierra club never mentioned that polar bears are excellent swimmers.

      • JC

        Parents of children in Churchill Manitoba Canada walk their kids to school with rifles…because of all the Polar Bears. They’ve never had so many.

      • ross

        ..but doncha know that’s because da bears ran outa ice…it’s true cuz da IPCC guys said so…dey ain’t no ice left anywhere…

    • Jim H.

      Tar Ball, The Sierra Club runs on donated money and membership dues. They need a cause so clueless people like you will donate. It’s about the money. The green they care about is the greenback.

      • William

        so right Jim. all the more reason for finding out who gives them their money and stop buying any thing from them,

      • eddie47d

        Poppycock!!

      • Doug

        No Eddie you are a —–!

      • eddie47d

        Polar Bears can only swim up to 40 miles and that is a stretch. Most icebergs can float for hundreds of miles and with so many breaking off these day because of the warming polar bears are truly lost at sea.

      • Jana

        uh oh, eddie must have donated to them. He is one of the clueless that was being talked about. hahahaaha

      • JeffH

        fast eddie, do you belong to or support the organizations Defenders of Wildlife, PETA and the Humane Society? Just curious.

      • Claire

        JeffH– I abhor PETA. I have given to the polar bear fund before. I am also a member of the National Wildlife Federation and I have given to the World Wildlife Fund. I contribute to Contact Ministries (for the poor) here in town. I am not a radical about these organizations. I do what I can if I can. I have also contributed to the Animal Protective League here in town. I have to admit my main concern is for the German Shorthaired Pointer Rescue. And I am against puppy mills. There are an abomination. At this point in time I am concentrating on the GSPs and getting rid of puppy mills.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Claire,
        I don’t know about your area, but here the APL euthanises after a period of time. I know you wouldn’t want to support that. We have a few non-kill rescue houses in our area that refuse to kill any of their “rescues”! I donate money, food and litter to them instead!

      • Claire

        JoeH– The APL here does a good job, they do not euthanize. They have ads in the paper every day with a picture of the dog or cat they are trying to find a home for. The APL appear at a lot of stores here in town on the weekends trying to get the animals adopted. They really work hard at trying to find homes. The APL has a lot of fundraisers which helps. The local animal pound euthanizes. Brady (RINO) who is running for office here in Illinois submitted legislation to put all animals together in the same room and kill them using auto exhaust. He is a jerk. There is a no-kill shelter in Benld, IL ran by Lorraine Jackson. She has done this her entire life. She is a wonderful person. She has a lot of volunteers that help her.

      • eddie47d

        Dear Jeff You didn’t say pretty please but you being such a good friend I’ll tell you I am a member of Defenders of Wildlife and have given money to the Humane Sosiety.

      • ross

        …crickets chirping…

      • ross

        Eddie, even bears get a clue and go on welfare at Churchill, apparently.

        Maybe Greenpeas can rescue da bears in that Batmobile Boat…would make a great money-making TV show…think of the drama….

        Now that you mention it, why is Greenpeeze NOT rescuing da bears? They have the boat—what is their excuse?

  • Willy

    Remember the 9-11 terrorists came through Canada not Mexico.

    What about all the illegal people on expired visas (like students, like the 9-11 terrorists). Can Arizona racially profile them? What if they look European or Canadian next time and speak English?

    • Joyce from Loris

      Let’s profile everyone! There are illegal RUSSIANS here, that came on work vistas and never left. They are white. I would NOT be upset if someone asked me to show identification to prove I was an American. If a police officer stops me for any reason, first thing he asks is to see my driver’s license, proof of insurance and car registration. Is that profiling?? ALL illegal immigrants must be FOUND and DEPORTED. All people caught invading our country should be shot as terrorist.

      • Jim Cumber

        While I HEARTILY agree that illegal aliens should be found, arrested, and deported, don’t you think that shooting them all as terrorists (after all, MANY, if not most, of the illegals are women and children!) is a BIT “over the top”?!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Willy,
      Just as long as YOU remember that seven of the nine terrorists that were planning to attack Ft Dix came through Mexico!!!

    • NorthernDave

      NOT A SINGLE 9-11 TERRORIST ENTERED THE US FROM CANADA! NOT ONE. But then again, why let facts screw up your post, eh?

  • So called conservatives

    Why not repeal all taxes so we can better spend our money.

    They repealed all the antiquated anti-depression laws and decontrolled the banks.

    Remember libraries, wars, highways, and the obsolete space shuttle were free………..no taxes involved if you listen to conservative talk.

    • Craig

      Apparently you never listen to conservative radio, as nobody says those things should be free. You are clueless.

      • eddie47d

        Craig; Conservatives say all taxes are evil (except for military). They never say where money comes from for highways,libraries,ect. They never admit it comes from taxes.

      • Jim Cumber

        eddie47d: “…Conservatives say all taxes are evil (except for military). They never say where money comes from for highways,libraries,ect. They never admit it comes from taxes…” WRONG!

        If you “did your homework” you would know that: (1) Under the Constitution, there are only VERY limited areas in which the Federal Government is Constitutionally authorized to be involved, and the military is one of the “short list” (U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8) items. “Libraries” are NOT on the list, nor are “highways” (UNLESS they are “post Roads”: Article I, Section 8, Paragraph 7). “National Parks”, etc., do NOT appear on the Constitution’s “short list” of permissible Federal Expenditures! (2) ALL Income Taxes go EXCLUSIVELY to the misnamed “Federal Reserve” (which is nothing more than an unConstitutional, illegal, private banking cartel!) to pay the exorbitant INTEREST on our NATIONAL DEBT! Study the Constitution…

      • eddie47d

        There are State and local taxes and Republicans say the same thing on that level.

      • JeffH

        fast eddie, why don’t you post some facts to back up your accusations instead, just once.

      • eddie47d

        Jeff; Listening to you proves me right everytime. I don’t even have to look any farther.

      • ross

        Eddy…send back your oil royalty check.

    • Roland N Thompson

      Roland Thompson

      Dear so called. When will people like you wake up and see that all agendas lib.and conser. will only destroy our country. Our colleges
      need to teach our kids how to think not what to think.

      • Jim Cumber

        Roland N Thompson: “…Our colleges need to teach our kids how to think not what to think…”

        ABSO-FRAGGING-LUTELY!!!!

        Only I believe that our so-called “education system” should begin teaching students HOW to think (rather than WHAT to think!) when they are in GRADE school! If they wait until college, they will MISS a high percentage of American youth, who never go to college…

      • ross

        On the NEA’s list of recommended reading: Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals”(check it out).

        These clones (NEA) have our kids for six hours a day.

        I used to vote yes on every school bond. I will henceforth vote NO on any school bond, until there is CHOICE in education.

        Liberals believe in CHOICE? What a farouking joke.

    • William

      where in the hell did you hear that crapp?

    • dean

      do you like the police,firemen or highways? taxes pay for those

  • jim

    A little known fact is that the US has this same type of oil deposit available as well. I believe it’s somewhere in the area between N. Dakota and Montana and it’s very close to the Canadian border. AS I recall, it’s in shale and the technology to extract it is available now…yet we have these greenjeans calling for no exploration or extraction…it’s simply infuriating. Why don’t GreanJeans and all their cohorts go to N. Korea or Saudi Arabia and ply their agendas? I can tell you why it’s because they would silence their sorry mouths once and for all. Perhaps they ought to realized what we are fighting against and get on board. We can be good stewards of our lands and resources and at the same time remain the best country on God’s green earth.

    • William

      you are right Jim. all the damned IDIOTS need do is travel through Pa. where they have been strip mining for years. se what they have done to the land they pulled the coal from. land that otherwise would be worthless is now beautiful. but those ass holes dont want you to know about that, they just want to bitch about the drilling. what they want is for us to be dependant on the muslims so we can give them plenty of money to buy weapons with, wouldn’t it be nice if they would attack some of those worthless bastards>>

      • dean

        i think the mountains were beutiful before the coal co came along

    • eddie47d

      Jim; Prove it (good stewards) so “greenjeans” can’t say it’s not true. So far you haven’t.

      • JeffH

        fast eddie, you’ve yet to prove anything. Each time you’re called on to post a fact or a factual rebuttle you can’t and just make another idiotic remark…no credibility at all…

      • eddie47d

        Do all the time Jeff so you can lie all you want if it makes you feel better. You’d make a great garbage salesman always carrying around free samples!

      • ross

        Eddie…send back your oil royalty check.

  • Marcus Aurelius

    Who needs greasy migratory birds anyway? Why not just lace their food with poison so they die in Canada.

  • Donald

    Myers may be absolutely right, but he is certainly not an unbiased source. His whole life has been in association with the Oil Industry.

  • Lawrence L. Sober

    The current administration in America is good at telling lies. They lie to the public on a regular basis. We pay billions of dollars for oil from countries that spend a large part of their profits supporting attacks against America. What can you expect when you Make a devout Muslim the President of the US. A president who has one agenda and that is to see that America becomes a Socialist Republic. The facts don’t lie, just the people who present them.

    • Mondovibe

      that’s why the current administration is pushing for innovation in sustainable energy and job creation…a win/win for the economy and environment

      • Coservative at Birth

        If there was real innovation in energy to replace oil, people would have already invested in it. This administration is trying to steal my freedom, and if you are with them, you have declared yourself my mortal enemy. They really want to tax the American Free Enterprise system out of existence, and that is all.

      • Jana

        This administration is just plain bad. I started to say it was a joke, however with all of the bills that he is getting pushed through, this admin. is more like a nightmare.

      • ross

        Barry Soetoro never has run so much as a lemonade stand…but he’s a helluva speech reader….

      • dean

        the bills he is pushing through will save our republic its the deregulation crowd and “conservitives”that have pushed our country to the brink

    • eddie47d

      Al; We have been relying on foreign oil for a century and you want to blame it all on Obama with the usual name calling.You have no credibility.

      • JeffH

        fast eddie…do you think you have any credibility? None, nada, zero, X! I’d suggest you think about it but I wouldn’t want you to hurt yourself.

      • eddie47d

        Jeff Get lost you pandering pimp!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        JeffH,
        I think you just demonstrated very well that the TRUTH hurts!!

      • eddie47d

        Another pandering pimp is that a species?

      • ross

        No, pandering pimp is interchangeable with the genus Lemming Lefty-Nutball.

    • dean

      so did bush and chaney they lied continuosly for eight years non stop

    • dean

      also if the president was a muslim he would be working to make us an islamic republic not a socialist one

  • Only in America

    Oil shale is one nasty and expensive place to get oil.

    Perhaps you will debate the effects of green house gases on the planet too. Especially after it is too late.

    Just more nonsense from the so called conservatives.

    • Mondovibe

      Yeah, it’s hard to understand what the conservatives want to conserve other than destructive exploitative profiteering policies that outsourced the American Dream, gambled away our safety, economy and environment…and their definition of family only…the rest of us aren’t deserving of civil rights or sustainability…yet they call us greenies, commies, marxists, fascists, etc.

      • Joyce from Loris

        You left out stupid.

      • eddie47d

        No that’s you since your such a corrupter of a clean environment. Your insults will not stop this nation from moving forward with clean air and water. You need to take a serious look at water issues in America and the world.It’s not all pretty.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Yeah edduh!, such a clean environment that a staunch dem bastion like NYC has needles and all kinds of garbage washing up on its beaches from the trash it hauls out to the deep water ocean!!!

      • ross

        Joe, you do that Obama elocution(sp?) perfectluh…

      • ross

        Yes, Edduh–

        Can’t get over the wonderful clean, healthy National Forests that “environmentalists”(always use quotes around that word) have given us with the forest policy they’ve inflicted on us.

        What we have now is sick, fading tinderboxes which, as they ignite, wipe out whole populations of wildlife and their habitat.

        There is a TOTAL avoidance of this issue by the Nutball Lefties on this site. The main reason is that it’s the truth; the other reason is that they’re Urban Shut-ins.

        Send back your oil royalty check, Edduh!!!

      • dean

        we need clean water to live,clean air and land too.like i said before if the earth dies so do we.i want a healthy planet so that my children and grandkids etc. can live far into the future.don’t you?

      • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

        Mondovibe-

        You have a very idealistic view of the world to think that liberals and environmentalists (which the article was about), are somehow more honest than people in business. Let’s do away with all business for a few years. Then we’ll all gradually have less of everything, and we can enjoy seeing where people point fingers. Some will wonder why there is no innovation or willingness to take a risk.

      • ross

        aaaaamen, hi-five, and fist-bumps, Alan.

        Lefty Nutballs (you know–the ones with the CHE’ t-shirts) need to do a few years in one of their Worker’s Paradises. Cuba would be a good start.

        They’d be begging for mercy on the second day.

  • hflashman

    Great idea…let’s stay on an increasing outmoded ancient oil dependent economy while the rest of the world moves ahead to the next evolutionary phase of an energy based technological economy. Let’s put our enegy dependence reliant on concentrated areas of production so they can be easily wiped out by missiles. Let’s ignore the facts about environmental degradation, concentrating more wealth and power to a few companies for energy production.

    There is not one good aspect in opening up these oil shale fields. By the time they can produce any amount to make an impact, during that time we still have to be controlled by Middle east tyrants, and we still have to sit up and take notice when Hugo Chavez makes noise in South America. All the while holding our breath we aren’t crippled because we listened to some lunatic fringe on the Right say being controlled by Corporate America and not moving forward leading the world to a new energy frontier is a good idea. Uh huh … sure it is … if you say so.

    BTW…notice how the author referenced Kim’s wall to keep N Koreans from getting out while he obstensively say it’s for “protection’? Hmmm…isn’t there a lunatic right wing element saying we should build a wall on our Southern border? Walls work both ways…

    • MoJo

      I remember when the corporation/special interest conservatives were against higher mileage vehicles, clean air and clean water. The good old days will return.

      There were photos of rivers on fire and kids were poisoned with tetraethyl lead from gasoline.

      • Jana

        Wow flashman,
        Talk about fear mongering.

        You stated and I quote, “Great idea…let’s stay on an increasing outmoded ancient oil dependent economy while the rest of the world moves ahead to the next evolutionary phase of an energy based technological economy. Let’s put our enegy dependence reliant on concentrated areas of production so they can be easily wiped out by missiles. Let’s ignore the facts about environmental degradation, concentrating more wealth and power to a few companies for energy production.”
        What other countries are you suggesting that are moving ahead? Venzuela? Brazil? Iran? Mexico?
        We could move forward but the environmentalists keep stopping everything out of fear. They can’t even clear out the underbrush in the forests to stop fires ‘because of the environmentalist’. These environmentalists are good up to a point then they become like a rock in your shoe and a major pain.

      • hflashman

        Brazil is a very good example of how to transition into a non oil based transportation system. China is the worlds largest producer of “green energy” systems and has launched a national campaign to decrease oil dependency. Venezula would like nothing more than to keep us oil dependent.

        Think about that. Those that want us dependent upon oil, are not wanting the US to remain top dog in thie world.

      • ross

        …uhhh, last time I checked, we were facing some apparent climatic limitations in attempting to mimic Brazil in sugar cane production…and if you’re holding your breath while China switches to alternative energy from those eeeeevilllle “fossil” fuels…well, good luck–and just WHICH lunatic fringe do YOU belong to?

      • eddie47d

        Well said,I hope Jana remembers the past and how the obstructionist Republicans blocked every thing back then too. No wonder we are in such a mess.

    • Craig

      Blah blah blah. I belch black diesel smoke at you loons.

    • William

      what loony bin did you escape from. the reason we are so dependant on the muslims now is because of the damned IDIOTS like greenoeace et al,

      • Coservative at Birth

        Do you know what percentage of our oil comes from the middle east. I bet you don’t. Check it out and get back to us. Your’e argument against oil will be destroyed.

      • Doc Sarvis

        About 60%.

      • Coservative at Birth

        You are so wrong. I said check it out. We get 7 % of our oil from Saudi Arabia. Canada is number 1. Mexico is number 2. etc.

      • ross

        …numbers and ACTUAL facts are so inconvenient and, well, just distressing to the Utopian Left…

      • eddie47d

        Far from it;did you have polio as a child for your mind is crippled.

      • eddie47d

        That was for William.

      • libertytrain

        why Eddie – what a kind and gentle soul you must be… Good grief.

      • Claire

        eddie47d–You are not a damn bit funny. My Father died of polio two months before I was born. He was in an iron lung. He was 27 years old.

      • eddie47d

        Sorry Claire for you early loss in life and for offending you.

      • Claire

        eddie47d— Like Ross said, we all say things that can be hurtful, and forgiveness is a good thing…true words. I have no ill feelings towards anyone on this thread.

      • JeffH

        fast eddie IS the board idiot, without a doubt…

      • Claire

        JeffH– I draw the line when it comes to illnesses and disabilities. I will never mention any derogatory statements against anyone concerning health. One never knows if and when it can happen to them. We do not know what the future holds regarding health. If a person has good health they are fortunate. eddie should watch his tongue.

      • ross

        …agreed, but we’re all capable of hurtful speech, and foregiveness is a good thing…

      • Jim Cumber

        William, it’s even WORSE than that! Way back in the 1970s, an almost forgotten news magazine called “Review of the News” sent reporters to, as I recall, a meeting of oil executives and OPEC representatives in California. A Saudi sheik at that conclave made the following statement (as close as I can remember): “You Americans will be dependent on us [the Muslim World] for your oil needs for at least the next 30 years, unless, of course, you discover massive new deposits in your own country. However, our friends, the environmentalists, will protect us from that eventuality, BECAUSE WE ARE FINANCING THEM!” Is this NOT “economic warfare”? Does the word “TREASON” (Article III, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution: “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them [the States], or in adhering to their [the States'] Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort…”) ring a bell?!

    • Brad

      hflashman/MoJo

      So where are the so called green jobs promised by this administration? Oh that’s right there all in China. So why can’t you two bring any constructive ideas to the table for a debate, is it because you don’t have any constructive ideas to get us off of foreign oil!!! Currently in the US we have the most oil reserves un-tapped the world has ever heard of, 2-3 trillion barrels, that we can’t touch, and why, thank the “RATS” and their green friends. So on that note where are the new fuels that’s going to replace oil and the products that are produced from it?

      That’s right we have E85 but it doesn’t provide the same fuel economy that regular gas does, plus E85 is mixed with regular unleaded gas to give it some bang. Then there are natural gas and propane cars and where are the thousands of stations for them, oh that’s right they also don’t get very good fuel economy, my bust. Well then there is Hydrogen fuel but that technology is still 10 years from being truly perfected and right is still highly volatile. The totally electric car is now on the scene, but what is its power source, nuclear plants, coal fired power plants and the list goes on.

      Right now we are 10+ year’s from any form of energy that can replace oil and we all know it, it’s time to cut the Arabs off and start drilling our own oil and at the same time developing new sources of energy for the future security of our country. I believe we can become energy independent and turn a profit at the same time because we would produce more oil than we can consume so it goes out onto the open market for sale, we would rake in billions annually. Just think we would become the world’s financial power house again, just by tapping into our own oil sources and putting in onto the world market. As with anything it will also take time and by the way it would take less time then developing those so called new energy alternatives.

      As for N. Korea, they keep their people in for a reason, they (the gov) don’t want the general populous to know the truth, if they knew what was going on the general populous would revolt against their government. Right now there are two types in N. Korea, the haves and the have not’s, 5% have 95% of the food and quality of life items where as 95% have only 5% of the food and quality of life items. So why don’t you guy’s go live in N. Korea and report back how life is so great their!!! We Americans want our borders protected, we want the illegal immigrant sent packin, and if you have proper paperwork to be in this country legally then I welcome you with open arms, and that goes for both sides of the border.

      You two are such fools, do some research and you will find out for yourselves the left, progressives, democ “RATS”, are leading you and this country to third world status.

      • http://INTERNETEXPLORER GUNDOCTOR

        brad…
        you hit the nail on the head. right on. at least some of us have common sense and our heads out in free air!!

      • eddie47d

        I won’t deny what you said and we will depend on oil for many years. Why not keep pushing for more alternatives and within that 10 years we’ll be in a better position as a nation.

      • Doug

        Hell if we used the hot air coming out of Eddies mouth I think that could power a house!

      • eddie47d

        Sorry Mr doom and gloom I didn’t mean to ruffle your feathers.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Doug,
        Nah the methane from all that BS is a greenhouse gas!!!!

      • Jim Cumber

        Brad, I have been referring to them as “Demorats” for years; then again, I, as an “iron rod” Constitutionalist, can’t stand the GOP (Goof Off Politicians: EXCEPTING Ron Paul) for years…;) I am a precinct chair in the Constitution Party. See: http://www.constitutionparty.com

      • dean s

        no its the republicans who have been trying to turn us into a 3rd world country since 1980 when reagan got his dirty paws on the white house if you check the facts the middle class has been shrinking ever since and the national debt keeps getting higher.

      • dean

        but of course democrats havent been inocent either alot of them have taken money from wall st, and the big business lobyist to deregulate everything

    • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

      A lunatic right wing element? Polls for some time have shown that more than half of Americans want a wall. CNN’s poll in July 2008 indicated 2/3 of Republicans, 55% of Independents, and 40% of Democrats favor a wall. That’s a lot of people for you to be calling lunatics, don’t ya think?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        allan,
        On the evening MSM news tonight, they said nearly 68% of Americans believe the giverment is not doing their job on immigration. They did add that that was down 2% from a month ago. That’s probably because they polled 2% more bleeding heart libbies this time!!!

    • ross

      “…controlled by Corporate America…” hilarious. You have DISCRETION over every one of your dollars you spend.

      Except for April 15 each year.

      If you don’t give money to Corporate America on April 15 each year, what does Corporate America do to you? Nothing.

      You deserve to live in Cuba, where you would be free of Corporate America.

      Some people just never could leave the 60′s behind…

      • dean

        corporite america screws the american workers and tax payers every day, they move our jobs oversea to get slave labor pay no taxes and overcharge the govt,on a regular basis. i could go on and on

      • dean

        o.k my spelling does suck

  • John Angel

    If these people don’t want oil exploration and are against it’s use why do they travel by car or airplane? They must not be aware that it takes oil to make fuel to make these devices move so that they can spread their drivel.
    If a person is openly opposed to finding oil and doesn’t want companies to develop it then they should be banned from driving or traveling in any other way other than by bicycle.

    • s c

      Actually, John, little green elves and fairies put a special fairy water in the fuel tanks of the vehicles of greeners. Overnight, that special fairy water turns into gasoline. The next day, away they go, fighting for truth and justice and green causes.
      When those little green elves and fairies have to take a day off (it’s exhausting supplying the energy needs of progressives), Mary Poppins and Peter Pan take over so never is there a gas shortage like we had back in the ’70s. FYI, Mr. Obama organized all those little green elves and fairies (all dues-paying members of Chicago Local
      #69).

      • Jana

        Nancy Pelosi went greener so she leases an $18,000 a month office for herself in CA. Now this is just one of her offices. Hmm, she is so concerned about being greener yet she still uses her bigger jet airplane that costs more in fuel etc. and she uses it regularly. Shame on her and shame on CA for electing such a nut back into office year after year.
        This is the mentalitiy that we are up against. This is the mentalitiy of those on this site that are the liberals that are for this administration.
        I realize full well that there are Republicans that use and abuse too, but they are not out there shouting to us to MAKE SACRIFICES. I know, I know. Obama and Pelosi and Reid are just taking care of us like precious babies—-with money.

      • eddie47d

        Yes Jana don’t make sacrifices for the good of the nation. That’s only in old Hollywood movies.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        edduh!,
        I WILL make sacrifices when ALL of the dems, including YOU do!!! Oh and that includes ALL the greenies!!

    • William

      John even a bycycle uses petroleum. let the walk. the last time I noticed walking isn’t crowded,

      • Jana

        William,
        Can’t use those Tennis shoes either.

      • Joyce from Loris

        Or flip flops. All petroleum based products. Oh, and we can’t get leather from animals anymore to make shoes, that would horrible. So, we go bare footed?
        Coal and oil are nature’s gifts. We, as humans, use the intelligence that God gave us to make use of these gifts. Yes, we can find alternative methods of creating energy, but it can’t happen overnight. It will take time, and we are still a nation on the go. Why, just look at Obama. He flies Airforce One all over the world at the drop of a hat. Does he look concerned about conserving energy?? No, so what kind of an example does he present to the nation?

      • eddie47d

        So you want him to sit around in the White House and not engage in the rest of the world. Then you would ,WELL,accuse him of sitting around and not engaging in the world. At least he hasn’t started any wars yet.

      • Jana

        eddie, eddie, remember, common sense. Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to.

        Obama also uses his fuel to take many many vacations and to play games. I don’t really know when this poor overplayed man has time to work.

      • eddie47d

        Jana. He also has children and as a Good Democrat he takes his kids places. Darn I forgot;that’s only a Republican value. Then George Bush always took the whole month of August off for his personal pleasure. Darn I forgot Republicans can do it but Democrats can’t. My apologies!

      • Jana

        eddie,
        I accept your appology.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Joyce,
        I got an idea! We’ll all use Ho Chi Mihn sandals!!! those are made out of used tires and we need to get rid of those!!!! Oh darn, I forgot winter!! Hey, I did my part now the rest of you think about winter!!!

      • Claire

        JoeH–I used to wear flip flops– but no more! The dogs go after them, I guess because of the flapping “noise” they make when I walk.

      • ross

        Here’s the answer: HEMP sandles.

        Eddy—–send your oil royalty check back to the Province!!!!

  • Ken Roberts

    We need laws that will protect us from the attack of the heinous green people they do more damage, and I would not put it past them to sabotage an oil rig to get what they want.

    • Craig

      I’d be happy with open season on these green enviro Nazi types. No limit. Be doing humanity a huge favor.

      • William

        AMEN Craig. as a matter of fact there shouild be a bounty on them,

    • http://INTERNETEXPLORER GUNDOCTOR

      YOU MEAN LIKE THAT ONE IN THE GULF…HMMMM, FOOD FOR THOUGHT. OBUMMER SAYS HE’S A GREENER….HMMMM, MORE FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

    • eddie47d

      Ken,craig,William; Are you the 3-stooges? Maybe you are talking about Breitbart’s sabotaging race relations in America.Go clean up the manure in your own barn!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Another cattleman, all that bull in one place!!! Nobamam has done more to ruin race relations in this country than any president in modern times!!

      • JC

        Race relations? Don’t you mean tha divide and conquer tactsics of racial division used by DC?

      • dean shamblen

        you are watching too much glen beck

      • ross

        That won’t fly. The Left has been exploiting race as part of its broader class warfare strategy before anybody heard of Glenn Beck.

        Open your eyes.

  • Peter

    John Myers: Oil apologist and complete fool when it comes to oil sands. read the real story of the destruction of Canadian environment AND natural water basins by oil sands extraction: http://www.newint.org
    Oil sands were ignored for decades by big oil until they were faced with real depletion in global oil reserves. Now all of a sudden they’re economically viable due to the increased price of oil, but they are an absolute filth and blight on our environment – yours and mine. You can’t hide it. I am not a member of any environmental group, nor am I a socialist, but I like to keep my eyes and my mind open to all sides of a story, and this John Myers story is so biased it has absolutely no credibility on a global or local scale whatsoever. Totally unbalanced journalism. The world needs new solutions, not old oil cover-ups like this.

    • JC

      There is no more destruction to the environment than one would expect with strip mining. Those sands have been leeching oil into rivers there for centuries. And the Government of Alberta is very sensitive to environmental issues and inspects operations rigidly.

      • Doc Sarvis

        You said; “no more destruction to the environment than one would expect with strip mining”. Have you EVER seen a strip mine? There is nothing MORE destrucive than a strip mine!

      • hflashman

        More destructive than strip mining? Sure there is…returning to the Bush/Cheney years as the GOP is proposing as its solution to the problems we face (hmmm…problems caused by the Bush/Cheney policies…) Of course, that’s the difference between a .45 in the head and a .357 in the head, both are effective in killing us.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Good point.

      • http://INTERNETEXPLORER GUNDOCTOR

        hflashman….you just had a “flash in the pan” with no resulting ignition and expulsion of the projectile as desired. yep, blame it all on the republicans….you jerk-off democraps refuse to take responsibility when you f__k up, but you love to revel in the glory and take credit when someone else does it right! MORONS ALL!!

      • Jana

        hflashman,
        You and doc should put your actions with your words and start doing a little sacrificing then. I recommend giving up your cars and your computers to start.

      • eddie47d

        Jana; Life will go on Jana.We just don’t have to be so destructive about. Can we move forward with better solutions or are you one of those who are invested in oil and gas.Thus that is how you vote.

      • Jana

        eddie,
        I am vested in common sense.

      • eddie47d

        Jana, Apparently not!

      • Jana

        Considering the source, coming from you this is a BIG complement.

      • ross

        Eddy talks about being “invested in oil” as being a bad thing.

        But he gets a check from the Province of Alberta for oil royalties.

        But he sends it back…yeah, sure.

        If he’s not an Alberta resident, he is nonetheless prospering BIG-TIME from oil, as a Canadian citizen.

        The Province of Alberta sent oil checks to its citizens as far back as the 1950′s.

        It IS……..SAUDI ALBERTA, and that’s a good thing….

      • Al Sieber

        Mining is a lot different then it was 100 years ago. it could take up to 10 years to open up a new mine. don’t compare what they did in the past, with the future, its a weak argument.

      • JC

        What’s your point Doc? We need oil, period!
        Unless of course you happen to be sitting on a magic flying carpet,
        step off until you have something constructive to add.
        Typical liberal…all whine and no thinking.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Doc,
        “Have you ever seen a strip mine?” Yes I have and I have seen them that have been reclaimed. most of the reclaimed ones that are done right are beautiful!

      • hflashman

        Actually….the best any reclamation can bring land back is 70% of what is was prior to being stripped. Hard facts. There are certain bio molds that are destroyed when soil is moved around, topsoi is diluted to a secondary soil grade, and there’s a difference in water retention ability of ‘reclaimed’ versus natural.

        Most relamation projects are 50% of pre stripping…the last 20% is very expensive, yet that last 20% possibility does the most benefit in stream and vegetation protection.

      • Pathfinder

        To the contrary, while strip mines are ugly to look at while in operation, after the mine is “played out”, backfill operations leave behind a beatuiful landscape. There is little long term damage, if any.

      • 45caliber

        Have you ever seen the land after the strip mine has been closed and reclaimed? You can’t tell it was ever there.

      • Laid Nack

        Just more regulations.

        Why can’t we just dilute the oil downstream.

      • dean shamblen

        have you seen pictures of west virginia from the air lately, the coal industry is systematecly destroying the appalatian mnts.

      • Claire

        dean shamblen–and polluting the water that is around these areas. To me, this is what is sad. If any type of mining, oil drilling etc. is done, we should make sure to keep the environment safe. It can be done but obviously people are either too lazy and don’t care about anything but profits. Money talks and responsibility walks.

    • William

      yeh peter you sure dont sound like an environmentalist,

    • MJ Montana

      Myers is unbalanced? Exactly why is that so? Because he is a geologist that has been covering oil sands for years or becasue he is just flat out wrong — people should not go to Alberta becasue of those dirty oil sands in the extreme north? Speak out on if it is the latter and maybe drop a line about where you live. Does your state mine coal, have offshore drilling or maaybe handle nuclear material… all good reasons to boycott your home state.

    • alpha-lemming

      Oh Yeah!!
      What a totally balanced, unbiased, One-World, addendum to the Communist Manifesto web-site. Saharan Africans have to live in dung-huts….. It’s only right that we should too.

    • Jim Cumber

      Let’s “rein in” on our emotions and use our brains a little more. (1) We are “barking up the wrong tree”, here: solar, wind, and other such “green” technologies are exceedingly “weak reeds” on which to lean our energy future, to say the least! (2) Some of the newest (but little known) technologies offer MUCH better alternatives! Might I suggest a little “light reading”: “Energy from the Vacuum”, by Dr Tom Bearden. It explains how, among other things, an ALREADY PATENTED device, the Motionless Electromagnetic Generator (MEG) can extract pure, clean, electrical energy, DIRECTLY from the quantum vacuum, in COPIOUS amounts of up to TRILLIONS of watts per unit! This electrical energy can power land, marine, and propellor driven air vehicles, and/or our homes and businesses; a simple variation on the MEG can also replace jet aircraft and even spacecraft. All this technology needs is about $12 million (yes, I said only $12 MILLION, or LESS than the cost of drilling a SINGLE oil well!) and 18 months of “clean up” research to be ready for mass production, and the MEG (which is about the size of a half dozen VHS video tapes to power the average home) produces energy UNTIL THE ELECTRICAL PARTS WEAR OUT, in about 20 YEARS! See: http://www.cheniere.org

      • eddie47d

        Now were getting some where with a few good answers.thanks.

      • ross

        Thanks Jim–I will read it…

        If viable, let’s hope Dr. Tim doesn’t try to make a PROFIT on it. The Libs will start calling him BIG VACUUM and dream up a host of environmental problems.

        There shouldn’t be a reward for the hard work and dedication required to produce a new technology. That would be GREED, according to several people on this page.

  • Doc Sarvis

    The choice between energy security and some scarred land is a false choice. We have other options. I have enough confidence in America that we can succeed in transitioning away from our oil based economy. Americans who are not afraid to make some sacrifices for the benefit of our country can make our country a leader in this transition.

    As for the Greens wanting to count on Arab oil; that is false too. What the Greens want, and I think all Americans would prefer, is an energy policy moving away from oil all together. If you think oil sand imports are going to keep prices down you are, to say the least, misinformed. Extracting oil from sands and shales is hugely expensive and environmentaly destructive. Transitioning to other sources of energy will be expensive too, at least initially, but it is the best path we can take for our energy policy and our national security.

    • Doug Palla

      Lunatic right, left wing element’s, socialism, politics, energy, right and wrong is a battleground to control everyone’s life regardless of the out come. I just wish people could evolve into one voice of survival and stop the toxic war threats against one another. The attacks on The United States is nothing new. The politicians and special interests are control freaks bent on setting society back 150 years. An obvious solution to dependence on oil is natural gas thru converting vast fleets to run on this abundant fuel. No matter how much environmental groups protest the use of oil society must go on. Our countries security depends on it. Hampering free trade for a political statement is nothing but blackmail and immoral, a word not used by the leftist movement unless it is to justify the means of obstruction. Creating clean fuel from a dirty business needs some improvement and new technology, it should be mandatory, but not as a means of destruction of the oil age.

      • eddie47d

        Natural gas is somewhat cleaner than oil but allot of chemicals are poured into the ground to get that gas out. Thus you have contaminated ground water. All solutions need to be put on the table and that includes natural gas but it can’t be the only option.

    • William

      doc. how the hell do you figure on lubricating those turbines with out petroleum? do you think metal on metal will do just fine? or maybe you plan on using bacon grease,

      • Doc Sarvis

        My argument is to transition from an “oil based energy policy/economy”. I did not say we could eliminate the use of oil but we should drastically reduce it. When we develope an energy policy and energy infrastructure that is not based on oil we can turn to domestic sources of oil for the MUCH smaller demand for that resource.

      • Coservative at Birth

        Exatly what are the alternatives to Oil, Coal, Nautural Gas, and Nuclear Power that we can afford. Wind Turbines kill birds, disturb wild life habitats, human existence, and only work some of the time. Solar power is limited as well. They are both cost prohibitive, and cannot supply all of the electricity. And, just how do you propose We transport ourselves? You are either totally ignorant or a kool-aid drinking totalitarian socialist. Let us decide in November. Give me Liberty or Give me Death.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Coservative at Birth

        I’m not sure what “Coservative” means but it sounds like you have little faith in the citizens of this great nation. Americans have overcome many difficult situations and the American spirit can cope with the energy challenges we are up against. I think most patriotic Americans will agree that we are up to this task.

        There are definitly challenges in moving to new sources of energy. The largest challenge is getting people off their butts and working for positive results as opposed to waiting for the oil to run out (which is too rapidly approaching). We are already spending too much to keep us in oil (military budgets and the lives of good American soldiers) and that will only increase.

        There are a number of emergent energy technologies that show promise. The problem is that so little time and money has been invested in developing these promising sources. Then there are some existing technologies such as upgraded nuclear and some appropriatly sited hydroelectric plants. Solar and wind do work but need more development. Better siting and better design of wind will lower the wildlife costs. Wind and solar work well together in many places. Often winds are greater after the sun goes down and of course the sun seems to work better when the sun is out. There are other potential sources I have not mentioned as well.

        One big factor is not the source of our energy but the wise use of it. Energy conservation and efficient use of energy is something that will be a huge step for our energy independence and national security.

      • eddie47d

        Conservative at birth; Your rant makes you the extremist.

      • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

        Doc Sarvis-

        Don’t you think if the green technologies were so promising to invest in that the current energy industry would be leading the way to secure market share? As for American spirit and ability to overcome problems, that exists, but the real problem greens have with the public is credibility — too many lies and too much exaggeration. The spotted owl issue was never about owls, it was about shutting down the timber industry, and if you look behind the scenes, you’ll see the profit motive. Americans aren’t all opposed to profit yet, but they like to see profits made honestly.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Doc,
        If solar is so green, then why did the greenies stop the building of the biggest solar plant in the world in energy strapped Kalifornia because of a tortise and a lizard???? Evidently you greenies have your priorities crossed!!!

      • Sgt Mike

        WELL SAID

        Think Evolution NOT Revolution

      • dean shamblen

        if we could get dems in big coal states to go along, we could’ve had an energy bill, but it died in the senate becouse of the republicans and democrats who did’nt have the courage to vote for the bill.

      • hflashman

        We still have oil reserves to tap for lubricants etc … it’s the power generation aspect of oil that drains our national economy and has us dependent upon the Middle East and Big Corporate America…thank Bush/Cheney for that. They put the nails in our coffin. Funny how no one was outraged when Bush kissed the Shiek and they walked holding hands. But then…Obama bowing in a diplomatically approved gesture is traitorous…holding hands and kissing the shieks isn’t. Go figure.

      • Jim Cumber

        No, as a person trained about the Middle East and Islam, I can state, categorically, that Barry Soetoro (his LEGAL name from when he was “naturalized” as a citizen of Indonesia and adopted as the son of Lolo Soetoro) bowing to the Saudi Royalty was merely a demonstration of his devotion to Islam. The “dirty little secret” of Constitutionally illegal, White House occupant, Barry Soetoro, is that he is a “closet” Muslim. He follows all the protocols: for example his wife, Michelle, never accompanies him on visits to Arab countries which abide by strict, Shari’ah Law. I predict that the “gloves will come off” after Barry Soetoro is either reelected for a second term as the Constitutionally illegal, pseudo-POTUS or, more likely, the 22nd Amendment is repealed and he becomes our first Muslim “POTUS for Life” and mandates Shari’ah Law for us all: MARK MY WORDS!

      • eddie47d

        Jim Cumbers I wouldn’t mark (put money) on anything you just said. Your way past the koolaid stage.

      • Jana

        But eddie, you are from Canada. That explains a lot of your liberal thinking.

      • sheldon

        Now there’s some ridiculous stereotyping! The last I heard, the ruling party in Canada was the CONSERVATIVE party.

      • ross

        …ANYTHING he says, Eddie? Occidental College says Barry Soetoro was Barack’s name when he attended there. Are you accusing Occidental of lying? They’re a bastion of Liberal integrity–they wouldn’t lie. Are you saying that Obama DIDN’T use the name Barry Soetoro? WTF…you’re not beleiving ANY of it?

      • Joyce from Loris

        hflashman, you have a short memory. When Bush was seen smooching on the shiek, and getting all feely and cozy holding hands, well the nation was OUTRAGED. Don’t you remember? Most conservatives flooded the White House with phone calls and emails, blasting Bush for this act. He got the same treatment Obama got. The United States President should NEVER BOW before another, nor should he be kissing and holding hands.

      • Pathfinder

        Diplomatically approved gesture ?!?! Are you totally insane ?? IT HAS NEVER BEEN ACCEPTABLE FOR AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT TO BOW TO ANYONE !

      • 45caliber

        hflash:
        Energy is a big oil user, yes. But plastics is just as big. Keep in mind just what you use every day: clothing, electronics, cars, styrofoam cups, cd’s, DVD’s, computers, chairs, furniture, etc. Even houses use some plastics in their construction.

    • Sgt Mike

      WELL SAID

    • Sgt Mike

      Doc,

      WELL SAID

      We can have both jobs and a cleaner inviroment.

      It was not to many years ago the Oil industry was the most powerful cartel in the world. They lobbied congress for subsidies in the name of national defense.

      They painted a picture of the nations industry grinding to a halt with out them, joblesness would destroy us, it was a nasty picture.

      and then 7 years later the WHALE OIL cartel was GONE, yes Whale Oil,

      seems some folks figured out what to do with this stuff leaking out of the ground in PA,

      Americans are a rather remarkable people, If we get our heads out of the SAND,Oil Sand that is we can find something \much better.

      I do not wish to point fingers but has anyone considered that John \meyers might have a Ulterior motive to keep us invested in

    • 45caliber

      Doc: Perhaps you should also point out that 1/3 of all oil America uses comes from there.

      I do believe that we can come up with a way to reduce, at least, our use of oil by going to an alternate source. Nuclear energy comes to mind. But FIRST we need to find and accept using that source and then build it BEFORE we stop using oil.

      So – what have you invented so far???

  • Bruce

    Is it not of interest that {RARE EARTH} is now being minned by “SLAVE LABOR.” Keep in mind that “All of the GREEN products use RARE EARTH” for there production. Now ask so whats the real goal again?

    • Al Sieber

      China is the largest producer of Rare Elements (R E E)we have a large deposit of REE’s s.w. of Las Vegas, Nv. on I-15 at mountain pass, going towards Baker, Calif. they closed all the land around there for wilderness areas.

      • 45caliber

        Reminds me of Clinton closing the mining of coal in Utah. His reason was to get the “green” vote in California.

      • dean shamblen

        there are large deposits of rare earth minerals in south east nebraska

      • dean shamblen

        ER,i meant rare elements

    • esarhaddon

      If you don’t like the use of so called Slave Labor then send them back to Mexico!

    • Pathfinder

      Just like a watermelon: green on the outside and red on the inside; so also is the sierra club.

      • 45caliber

        When Carter was President, he signed an order placing 96% of the state of Alaska into Federal Lands that could not be developed. If you find a mountain of gold there now, you are forbidden to mine it – but required to tell the feds so they can sell it to someone. You cannot live on it anywhere.

        The Sierra Club was one of those groups that got him to do this. There is one section of Alaska set aside as a wilderness area for backpackers only. It is so big that you can’t carry enough food to get to the center and back out again without starving. But at least once a year the senior officers of the Sierra Club are brought it by the fed. government on a horseback trip at gov. expense to “inspect” the area. Basically they ride to a point where no backpackers can reach and spend two free weeks fishing and enjoying something no one else is allowed to enjoy.

      • ross

        The Sierra Club and their ilk are responsible for the degradation of all Western U.S. National Forests. All are turning into very sick forests (fly over them or drive through ‘em), with a faded look due to stress from disease and insects.

        It is a very real disaster, due to no meaningful timber stand management as National Forest policy.

        Climate change is not a major factor in this disaster–it is uncontrolled disease and insect infestation. Adjacent PRIVATE timberlands are immediately identifiable for their healthier, greener appearance.

        The “Greens”(oh the irony) will never be held accountable for the damage they have done to our National Forests. They are, essentially, unaccountable. The media does nothing but encourage them, never questioning…

  • Jim H.

    Here is a source of oil, that could be sent by pipeline and not ship(no oil spill) coming from a next door country and not supporting a middle east country and someone still has to gripe. The Sierra Club relies on contributions, so they need a cause to be against to get donors. It’s all about donation money.

    • Meg

      You have a good point…I would rather see oil go through a pipe line as long as they keep a good check on the line. All companies need to follow good standards!

      • Jana

        Meg, it seems like bad politics are even in these big companies. That is why they make big donations to Presidents like Obama.

      • DS

        Don’t forget that the terrorist green organizations are the ones that blow up pipelines…

    • William

      Jim thats why it should be made public to all of us who it is that donates to these sorry damned people and we should all stop buying anything from any one who supports these people. if they quit getting donations then maybe they would have to get a real job. I would not give one of them a dime if they were starving,

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      It keeps them in business. Kind of like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They create racism and stir up racism to keep themselves in the money. Without it, they are broke and fade away to nothing. But as long as they stir it up and cause it, people give them mass amounts of money, then they are on the first bus out of town. These greenies are the same way. They pound and pound and pound on an issue, and get people to give them money and off they go to the next popular cause.

    • eddie47d

      It’s not about donations;it’s about the environmental damages that are incurred where ever oil companies exist. Energy companies are a dirty business and we have to cut them some slack for making our lives more comfortable;but only up to a point. When they do more harm than good then the pendulum swings the other way.

      • old white guy

        eddie did you have a crap today. talk about environment damage.

      • eddie47d

        Gee,old and nasty. There were 23 major oil spills in the world in the year 2000. 5 were in the USA Sorry old and nasty white guy things haven’t gotten much better.Apparently not for you either. Maybe an enema will help.

      • 45caliber

        Give it a try. It can’t harm you.”

      • ML

        I have solar on my pool and home and am enjoying the cut in my energy bills. The real estate lady in my neighborhood told me it will add to the value of my home if I ever plan to sell it. Solar has great advantages and I would like to see us building more plants here for the tiles,etc. I love the lower Bills and it makes sense to me to go greener and cleaner! There is Freedom when you see your lower bills folks!

      • ross

        …can’t quarrel w/that–here in SW Idaho, my solar blanket heats the pool to 83 degrees…warm enough.

    • Pathfinder

      It is about donations. But it is also that these people are not environmentalists. They are WATERMELONS: Green on the outside ans RED on the inside.

    • 45caliber

      But they don’t want us to use oil at all! There was a big fuss about the Alaskan Pipeline. “It will spill oil!” (It has had a few minor leaks but nothing like flooding the territory.) “It will prevent the caribou from migrating!” (No, it hasn’t.) “The caribou will die off!” (Actually, they like the pipeline – it’s warm in winter.)

      Most “green” groups (I put it in quotes because they aren’t as much worried about green plants as they are green money.) are against ANY changes to anything.

      They all forget one thing when they talk about the environment. Man is part of the environment.

      • dean shamblen

        and man is killing the environment,and 1oo.000 gallons isn’t a minor leak

    • dean shamblen

      pipelines leak all the time, their is a million gallons of oil in the kallamizzo {however it’s spelled} river in michigan.

  • Viktor Leben

    It all comes down to control of machinery used in American Industry. Without cheap energy America cannot re-industrialize. Expensive energy will result in more jobs being exported overseas, the closure of more factories and the bankruptcy of the middle class…….

    If you don’t have the energy to run the machines then you can’t produce wealth. American industries carrying capacity and ability to supply a living wage is being reduced. The total irony of this scenario is the land being “protected” by the “Greens” will have no productive purpose. Why ? Because these lands are not being opened up for agricultural development ! Not even on an old early 19th century model when animals (horses, oxens etc.) were used to exploit the land !!!!!

    A 100 years from now, if these trends continue, what type of technologically stagnated world will our descendants be living in ? Will their be no machines to conquer creation ? Is it a return to the poverty the Industrial revolution did away with ?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      China doesnt seem to be stopped from becoming an industrial giant, and they are using the same energy sources we are.

      • eddie47d

        China needs to keep it’s nose out of Alberta for we (Canada) certainly don’t need to fuel their energy demands. We can use our resources without being environmentally reckless if we have the balls to do so. China is also seeking permits for drilling off the coast of Cuba. If oil is so important then why don’t we lift that embargo and work out a deal with Cuba. Instead of letting China move in.

      • 45caliber

        eddie:
        China is already drilling off the coast of Florida – under a permit from Cuba. They supposedly have other wells going in elsewhere in the Gulf too.

        I believe that this is due to Oblama making a deal with China – “you can have our oil if you will loan me more money for my programs.”

        True or not, I don’t know. But I do know that China didn’t want to loan us any more money – in fact, they wanted to sell the treasury notes they did have – but changed their minds after Hillary visited them. And now they are allowed to drill for oil in our lands.

      • ross

        If I owe you $1000, you’ve got leverage on me. If I owe you a million, I have leverage on you.

        Therefore, it’s not clear WHO has WHO in this China/U.S. relationship…

      • dean shamblen

        i agree with you, we should work with cuba, or we’ll be working for china, and we should be building nuclier power plants. the big oil co. have the money and knowhow to develope alternative forms of energy, they should lead the way, instead of getting in the way, but unfortionitly they care more about short term profit instead of long term sustainability.

  • s c

    Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and Corporate Ethics, while they are happy being in bed together, have little or nothing constructive to offer America. They are indicative of Hitlerian mind control used by agenda-driven groups.
    You’d think people would get tired of enduring a mindset based on pc ‘persuasion.’ Their ‘idea generators’ suffer from an extreme lack of talent, and one wonders how they can be worth whatever they’re paid when they use brilliant, compassionate concepts like ‘sacrifice – or else.’ Or ‘think global – think surrender.’
    How long it will take these geniuses to tell us when they plan to replace the oil business with green techniques that offer better alternatives to petroleum? Perhaps 50 years? Perhaps never?

    • refuse2lose

      These various “green”organizations are not worried about saving animals or clean energy,they want control over the worlds population. And while the members of these groups will storm government buildings and declare that our world will end if they don’t get their way,they drive around in gas guzzling vehicles and use jets to reach their destinations.

      It is called liberal hypocrisy,practically every liberal is guilty of it,and it disgusts me.

      • eddie47d

        How do you get to where you are going? Are Tea Party folks guilty of “storming” government buildings? How about gun rights groups or anti-abortions groups? Neither side is necessarily wrong but that could make you the hypocrite.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Did you not read his article? Those green groups do these things. Not the Tea Party. Not the NRA. Did you miss something here? Come on man, read it.

      • eddie47d

        I sure did! Did you or didn’t you catch refuse2lose’s spin?

      • Jana

        Nope, and yours didn’t make sense.

      • eddie47d

        jANA (OLD WHITE GUY,TOO), Tea party folks fly to Washington or Nashville to have demonstrations or conventions (that’s great),but they use allot of gas They storm Senate offices with their demands and drive suv’s to their rallies. I’m only repeating what was said in the opposite context.Now do you get it. You (Berberoni) love mocking others yet when it’s turned around it’s not so funny. Right!

      • Jana

        eddie,
        The TEA Party people are not the ones condemning everyone for driving and using by products of the oil, so they are not being hypocritical of others doing so. Unlike Al Gore who uses his private jet and vast amounts of jet fuel and yet gets rich off of carbon imprints, as well as his lowly 30,000 sq ft. house uses more electricity in one month than a whole city block of houses uses in a year.
        Its ironical to most of us that the ones crying wolf the loudest are the wolves.

      • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

        Eddie-

        Tea Partyers don’t use fossil fuels and lecture others not to. So your argument made no sense, as you can probably tell from the comments you received.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Edduh!
        I haven’t seen any e-boards wanting and offering perfect strangers rides to the green demonstrations! I have, however, seen them for the TEA Party trips. I ahve also seen reports of P-lousys flight costs and of course her bar tab going on trips that the PEOPLE pay for!!!!

      • old white guy

        holy crap you are dumb. it is people like you that are the problem. go live in a bloody cave with no electricity, running water or central heat. call me when you have had enough. moron.

      • Denniso

        More hyperbole and exageration,again…All the environmental groups want to do is find energy sources that don’t destroy the earth,upon which we are entirely dependent. Part of their plan involves cutting back on the huge amount of wasted energy that is part of our consumming culture. We are 5% of the worlds population yet we use 25% of the worlds energy…something wrong there, don’t you imagine?

        The other aspect to the ‘green’ plan is so called renewable energy that also has low environmental impact,unlike oil,coal and nuclear…
        or as your lover boy Bush would say,’nucular’. All energy has some degree of impact on the earth,the trick is to use what has the lowest harmful impact. ‘Greens’ don’t want to live in caves,or they would be already. They want the country and world to strike a better balance between a decent livestyle w/ wise use of our resources, and the self destructive path we’re obviously currently on. The oil spill in the Gulf isn’t the only one going on, and there are 2700 abandoned wells there already and some w/ leakage problems…what’s going to happen w/ those wells in 50,100 or 1000 yrs?

        We don’t have to destroy our only planet in order to have energy for a decent society…we just have to be a little smarter than we have been for the past 150 yrs.

      • Pathfinder

        These groups are full of WATERMELONS: Green on the outside and RED on the inside.

      • ross

        Denniso,Denniso,Denniso…
        It is refreshing to find such innocence. “ALLLLL the Greens want…” is lofty, wonderful resolutions to environmental issues, in your mind. They’re doing it for the children, of course.

        What planet do you come from? When they cooked up the fraudulent Spotted Owl fiasco, and wrecked the Western U.S. timber/lumber industry, with the resulting losses of jobs, industry and tax base, you bought their jive too. The owl never was threatened, the population studies proved it then and going forward to this day, and the Federal forests are a disaster area now because of no management. But to this day, Greens consider that disaster a “victory”, and 99% of the population is oblivious to what happened and what is happening now.

        If you and the rest of the U.S.population would get around just a little bit, you wouldn’t be so easily manipulated by the CHICKEN LITTLE INDUSTRY. But the chances of you and the rest of the enviro-lemmings actually going anywhere (other than as tourists to tourist traps)is essentially zero. You have no overview of our National Forests and their sorry health, for instance, and you will never be at or near the Athabasca Tar Sands. You people just…do…NOT…get around. This helps to make you an easy mark for the Utopians (Greens)and their rhetoric, and your failure to understand that Radical Environmentalism is where Liberals went to hide when the electorate woke up to the failure of a Marxist, anti-enterprise mob.

      • Denniso

        If not for all the environmental battles against big industry,you would already be living on a virtually dead planet….is that what you want? Toxic air for your kids to inhale,poisoned drinking water,clearcut forests,radioactive waste bubbling up,mountain tops blown off in a mad search for coal,rivers dried up by too large a population depending on them??? If you think things are bad now just see what happens if environmental concerns fade and industry gets it’s way entirely…

        You and your kind have no love for the earth,except in it’s capacity to produce money.

    • perry

      the sooner you quit dragging your feet, the sooner we can get off the oil as the primary driver of the economy and move on to the next level of planetary development.

      Too many people in the ‘we need more oil business’.
      You got your dreams and propaganda too.

      • http://none John Detwiler

        We have as you suggested been working on ideas to better our standard of living and freedom from oil. But the one thing that you forget we are years away from even a little less dependency on oil. And truthfully (Literly)you need to get your head out of the sand. We will never be entirely free from the need of oil. So wake up and face reality or are you one of the glass breaking,vehicle burning Anarchists?

      • Denniso

        Never is a pretty big word. We have known for at least 40 yrs that we would face an energy crunch and increasing environmental issues w/ burning hydrocarbons…and what do we do? Big oil and their lapdog ‘conservatives’ fight essentially all moves in a positive direction toward energy independence,cutting demand and more sustainable sources. So, we are almost no further along toward a more healthy program for the country than 4 decades ago…

        You must have a pretty good crystal ball to be able to state categorically that we will NEVER get off of oil. That sort of adament declaration is the hallmark of the Repub party who think they know everthing and can predict the future perfectly. It is true that the Repubs are trying to keep us in the dark ages and stop all advancement
        toward a better future for all of us,and the earth.

      • ross

        You’re the engineer–deliver the alternative(s) to oil. It’s easy. I know that because the Utopians (you and your fellow travelers) say it is!. And I know you’ll do it without a PROFIT motive (hope I don’t get 86′d here for using a dirty word). Of course, you keep placing your orders for more petroleum ALL day EVERYDAY, and then sanctimoniously calling out the oil companies and anybody who doesn’t trash them.

        Can’t blame you for being a Fundamentalist Liberal though (of the Elmer Gantry sort–preaching against eeeville, whilst partaking of it at every opportunity). An engineer might see job security in endless (however meaningless) regulation and scare-mongering, as does the entire Green movement. Engineering experiences no regulation–just job opportunities as increasing burdens are placed on the private sector.

        AMBITION AND SUCCESS MUST BE PUNISHED. VOTE DEMOCRAT!!!

      • Buster

        You can’t have a reasonable discussion with these conservatives. If you don’t agree with their twisted, unscientific, and religious views, they’ll just post more lies and attack your character. Many of them don’t even know computers have a spelling check feature. Check out jerry b b to learn about the age of the Earth and Edgar Cayce (misspelled Casey) and Jean Dixon. I can’t believe these people are allowed to vote.

      • Denniso

        I’m a self employed engineer/architect and hate unnecessary regulation,but have learned why we have and need some degree of regulation,w/o which the unsuspecting public is victimized…financially and physically.

        Because it’s tough to move to better,safer and more sustainable energy
        sources for the world doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be trying and taking
        incremental steps in that direction. We can save as much as 15% of our energy use by effective conservation alone. We can fairly quickly get up to another 15% from solar and wind…that gets us close to energy independence. If we don’t even try and allow the oil and coal and nuclear(or as Bush would say,nucular)industries and their enablers in the Repub party to continue to block meaningful progress,then no, we will never get off our oil dependence and all the
        crap that goes along w/ it.

        You can stay stuck in the mud and watch others move ahead to a better future for us and the earth.

      • Jana

        perry,
        Then I assume you have given up riding in or driving in any type of motor vehicle, given up wearing anything made out of the by products, which even includes your tennis shoes. Oops, you have to give up your computer, it is made of plastic which is a by product of oil. No more TV, no more radio. Hey when you put your life in order and quit using any and all products or by products, then you can talk. When you come up with some good solid cost effective ideas, then you can talk. Meanwhile I will tune you out.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Jana,
        If he’s got one, he better cut up the ole credit card as well!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Or we can do like Carter did. You know, form the Department of Energy, to end our dependance on Foreign Oil. Only now, all these years later, we use more of it than ever before, and this un-necessary government agency has 280,000 employees and contracts some hundred thousand more, and we are all paying for it. This is how the democratic think tank works, and we sure as hell do not need more of it. And instead of addressing anything, this current democratic admin is creating more and more government agencies, that we will all get to pay for, for the rest of our lives, while more and more liberals that they hire to run these agencies, get richer and richer. Of course, when theyve got ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC in their pockets, they can just go on TV and through the brain suckers in everyone’s living room, and blame it on Bush or someone else. That seems to be their mantra.

      • eddie47d

        I think it was Nixon during the Arab oil embargo (long lines at the pump) that said we shouldn’t be so dependent on foreign oil. Nice try in trying to pin it all on Democrats,so typical of you.

      • Normal Guy

        Bebe

        Well I know that pointing out facts is pretty much useless to anyone on this thread but as usual the suggestion that the DOE is something thrown together by Carter to lower oil prices blah blah blah… is just a distorted little piece of information taken completely out of context. The DOE is responsible for everything to do with energy from nuclear weapons on down. Lose your Foxspeak mantra and go to their site for the historical background and mandate.

        The roots are from the early 1940’s and are focused on the development of nuclear energy and more specifically nuclear weapons.
        Here is a link to their about the DOE page.

        http://www.energy.gov/about

        After looking at this read the history – then distort the information in you conspiracy addled mind and blame it on Carter Obama and the Rothschild’s – you guys are really pitiful. Rather than rail against the talking points that you know nothing about why not actually do some research!! Here is a little taste of reality.

        June 29, 1973
        President Nixon establishes the Energy Policy Office. The office is responsible for formulating and coordinating energy policies at the presidential level.

        November 7, 1973
        President Nixon launches Project Independence, with the goal of achieving energy self-sufficiency by 1980. Recalling the Manhattan Project, Nixon declares that American science, technology, and industry can free the United States from dependence on foreign oil.

        December 4, 1973
        The Federal Energy Office replaces the Energy Policy Office. The new office is assigned the task of allocating reduced petroleum supplies to refiners and consumers and of controlling the price of oil and gasoline. William Simon is named Administrator.

        May 7, 1974
        President Nixon signs the Federal Administration Act of 1974. The Federal Energy Administration replaces the Federal Energy Office.

        August 4, 1977
        President Carter signs the Department of Energy Organization Act. The Federal Energy Administration and Energy Research and Development Administration are abolished.

        August 5, 1977
        James R. Schlesinger is sworn in as first Secretary of Energy.

        October 1, 1977
        DOE is activated. Bringing together a score of organizational entities from a dozen departments and agencies, the new department is also given responsibility for the nuclear weapons program.

        November 9, 1978
        President Carter signs the National Energy Act, which includes the National Energy Conservation Policy Act, the Power Plant and Industrial Fuel Use Act, the Public Utilities Regulatory Policy Act, the Energy Tax Act, and the Natural Gas Policy Act.

        Oh by the way during the oil crisis, Carter was able to get US consumtion to decrease by some 25%. Lower temperatures in office buildings 55 MPH speed limits etc.

      • old white guy

        ok, same reply as to eddie 47.

      • eddie47d

        Old white guy Are you dead too or just playing us along with your dumbing down?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        normal guy,
        were you working during the carter years?? I was and part of the reason that the oil usage went down was 1) limited supplies = long lines. 2) wage freezes that dropped output at almost all jobs!!!

      • Normal Guy

        Joe

        Wage freezes were put in place under Nixon, the first oil crisis occurred in 1973 under Nixon and he regulated prices keeping them artificially low, when Carter came in he deregulated the pricing on oil to allow it to approach world prices (about $15 a barrel regulated US price, $30 a barrel world price)Prudhoe bay came on line imports dropped significantly and US production came on line.

        During this period domestic U.S. oil output rose sharply from the large Prudhoe Bay fields while oil imports fell sharply. However, since there were no price controls on imported oil, this had no impact on boosting the supply of gasoline in 1979. Hence, long lines appeared at gas stations, as they had six years earlier during the 1973 oil crisis.

        So maybe you are just a bit senile and can’t remember what actually happened or maybe you just don’t have a clue.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Normal Guy,
        I admit I made a mistake. I am neither senile nor stupid. I will say one thing though I will admit it will you do so or are you one of those who never make them???

      • http://NewsMax David Combs

        Carter lowered thc consumption to 25 per cent.
        He lowered home owners.
        He lowered farm owners.
        He lowered car owners.
        He did raise the interest rate to 21 per cent.
        Thank you Mr. President

      • Dale on left coast

        Perry . . . what are you smokin???
        There is nothing to replace oil tomorrow . . . there is enough oil and gas in North America to last another 100 years, we just need to go and get it. When an realistic alternative is invented, besides nuclear, it will take over the market place. Windmills and solar panels don’t make the grade.
        Anthropogenic Gorebull Warming was a massive LIE . . . the globe is cooling and ice packs are growing on both poles, as the polar bears grow in numbers.

      • Normal Guy

        Hey dopey old guy

        Thought I should point out that you are slagging a guy who is on your side of the fence in crazy conspiracy world. I guess when you don’t have a clue it is easy to lash out at anyone, you go get em.

      • ross

        …Crazy Conspiracy World…would that be like “Wall Street is out to get you, the oil companies are out to get you, rich people are out to get you (RICH means anybody who has more than you), everybody except doctrinaire Progressives are racist, FOX News reports NO facts, Tea Party activists are all militiamen and racists, there’s an economic pie of finite size, and if your slice isn’t big enough, then somebody STOLE yours…”ya mean THAT crazy conspiracy world?

      • TIME

        Ross, Great post!

      • Deborah

        Scientists are reporting that their beliefs that oil, such as in Saudi and the Gulf is something the earth makes naturally. Not dino drippings.
        They said it happens naturally to aid in the movement of the plates.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

      • Jana

        Deborah, I have heard this theory before too. I also tend to agree with it. They go back to old fields and get more oil out of them when they thought they were dry. I know that some would say oh we have better technology today, but I am not so sure that is all there is to it.

      • ross

        The oil replenishing the depleted aquifers is older oil than that taken out originally; it is possible to determine difference in age of hydrocarbons…which supports what you are saying.

      • Jana

        Thanks Ross

      • dean shamblen

        the world IS getting wormer, the ice packs on both poles is getting smaller, do you ever look at global satilite pictures? poler bear populations are declining, mountain glaciers are melting all over the globe or are allready gone. glacier national park in montana used to have over 100 glaciers, now there are only a few left. greenland is melting faster then scientist thought it would. the planet is getting hotter on average every year. the oil and coal industry never tell you the truth. niether do conservitives, fox “news” IS THE PROPIGANDA CHANNEL. they shouldent get away with calling themselves a news channel. if and when are planet dies SO WILL WE, don’t listen to the lies from the right, they don’t care about you, the u.s.a, or the health of the planet. all they care about is making money and power, so don’t believe the lie that the earth is getting cooler becouse it isn’t, get your head out of the “tar” sand, and learn from real scientist who haven’t been bought off by the energy industry.

      • ross

        Here’s a truth from a Non-Utopian (you know–people you call “Conservative”): YOU flunked English and especially spelling.
        Education has certainly failed SOME people (it most certainly can’t be THEIR fault).

      • TIME

        Dude, ever hear of natural cycle’s?
        Ever hear of sun spots?
        Ever hear of why sun spots occur?

        I see when the quasi liberals post this stupid question over and over again they think its rather funny, so here it is back at you dude;
        ” What do you want to go back to the good old days?”
        Would that be PRE BC?

        So explain just who will be making money hand over fist if Cap & Trade is passed? Any clues dude?

        Then explain how Cap & Trade will make any differance at all to the Enviroment?
        That is keeping in mind that the same amounts of crap will still be pumped into the air & waters etc.?

        Can you with a straigh face and being totaly honest really think or say that a law that restricts YOU from owning a car, or having heat in the winter or air in the summer, or grasping that it will set the standards of the “REALLY Wealthy,” as they who do have heat and air have and the “REALLY POOR” the rest who don’t have heat or air.

        As in just hows that going to work out again?

      • old white guy

        same as eddie 47. get your head out moron.

      • eddie47d

        Go back to the dead you clueless simpleton

      • Sgt Mike

        Perry

        Agreed,
        now before any one “”goes Off” on me I own a truck,
        I make part of my living hauling to the Alberta Oil Fields

        RE: Being GREEN, as I watch some of these posts that pass for debate I am reminded of the old phrase FIRST LIER NEVER HAS A CHANCH but I am also reminded as I criss cross the US and Canada, the Earth is changeing, AND AS i visit places that when I was a KID 60 plus years ago that were green and cool running water today I see BROWN, no water or People and buildings.

        I’d like to throw out the phrase BRIGHT GREEN, it is the concept that YES we must reduce our use of oil, we are in fact destroying this nest we call earth BUT BRIGHT GREEN also recognizes that we can not over night change the world.
        PEOPLE MATTER,

        I ask to ALL who read this site, PLEASE, PLEASE let us all attempt to look at FACTS, realize there are truly people in this world who will fight to the last drop of OUR BLOOD to hold onto the old power base.
        (To those who might think I am a bleeding heart
        I spent 36 years in the military)

        The world IS CHANGEING, America has long been the leader, let us realize GREEN is coming, in fact much of the world is balls out to get there realizeing it is the future.

        Let us stop dragging our feet, move ahead of them creating new jobs and YES VERY LIKELY SAVING THIS LITTLE LIFE BOAT WE LIVE ON.

        Let us also realize that as we move forward or if in fact we are to move forward we must take care of those who have WORKED to create this nation, NOTE I SAY WORKED, not those who have played the shell game with paper that is supposed to represent TRUST, trust that we can trade it for food and shelter.

        They will continue to attempt to hold onto power by getting us to fight over scraps as they laugh at us, wave a flag and throw food in the trash.

        LET US LEAD THE CHANGE NOT BE RUN OVER BY IT.

      • dean shamblen

        AMEN

      • http://NewsMax David Combs

        You can keep the change

      • Pathfinder

        Face facts folks. None of your proposed “green technologies” produces sufficient energy. The needed number of kilowatt hours just are NOT there. For fixed (immobile) generating stations, nuclear power is a good alternative to coal and/or oil. However it is organizations like green peace are the ones who sue to stop the developement of atomic power plants. Unfortunately, atomic power is not practical for moving vehicles. At present petroleum products are the ONLY practical solution for moving systems. Fortunately, there is an adequate supply of oil to buy the time neccessary so we can develope the new technology that we need. In the meantime, we must continue to use oil until a practical new method can be developed.

      • 45caliber

        perry:
        I have no problem getting off oil. In fact, I believe that oil should not be used for energy at all.

        But I’m not so stupid as to insist we cut off using oil cold turkey without having anything else to fall back to using. And you and your friends are insisting we do just that.

        Can you see Al Gore giving up using his jet or the energy for his mansion simply because we stop using oil? I can’t. But the fact remains that if we did stop using oil (and coal) immediately 90% of the country would be out of power.

        Yet those who insist that we not use oil are also upset at other energy sources. “Windmills kill birds and look terrible! Shut them down!” “Nuclear plants are unsafe! Shut them down!” “Solar energy plants require stripping large sections of land of all trees! Shut them down!” And so on.

        What do you REALLY want us to do? Go back to burning wood? No, that would use up too many trees and would create a lot of smoke.

        I guess we go back to the caveman days – no energy use at all and everyone starves.

      • 45caliber

        The real problem I think I am seeing is that the “Green” people are in fact saying that there are simply too many people – and everyone else who isn’t a member of the “green” movement should be eliminated.

      • ross

        …Greens also believe there is a Social Security TRUST FUND, and a tooth fairy as well…

    • 45caliber

      Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, and most other “enviornmental” groups are interested in one thing – money. They get donations for people who feel good about “saving the _____” (fill in your own word). They get money by tying up renewal of licenses for plants. (“Pay us $10,000 and we’ll drop the protest against your license renewal.”) They get money for organizing protests (such as the company that paid them to protest against Freone.) Check and see what many of their officers are paid – both in salary and expense money.

      • ross

        Just one more thing…they get TAXPAYER MONEY for their massive legal campaigns…most people don’t know that.

    • Joe

      Wow there are a lot really messed up people on this website. So much for tolerance or open discussions. I have been reading posts for half and hour and I have not read anything but the rants of people who just want to call each other names. That accomplishes nothing. Try harder and make a difference.

      • Charles Newman

        Joe,
        So, “intolerant” and “ranters” are examples of the name calling you prefer? It’s OK to disagree, but when you do what you critsise others of doing, you act like a fool. Becoming less tolerant of fools is a good idea.

    • Charles Newman

      s c
      The don’t want better solutions, they want more poverty and misery, which usually translates to more Democrat votes and support for socialists and communists. This is what they are, don’t be deceived by their lies.

    • Trip

      Groups like the Sierra Club and NRDC (even Greenpeace has their moments) have got to do what you are basically calling brainwashing. Without groups like these to hassle Washington your beloved corporate giants and black goldrush investors would simply walk all over our natural resources without an ounce of concern for the damage left behind, we have all seen the the results of lies paying their way across the hill. I do not have a problem with big oil and energy research in general but I do have a problem with this group’s irresponsibility when it comes to getting what it wants, essentially mass profit at whatever cost. You tear down mountains in Appalachia leaving behind planted city park like fields and tell us what a gift you have given back and now you want access to the Rockies, I’ll keep the mountains; you tell us that massive accidents in oil will not or can not happen so that Washington will approve your drilling leases in the Chukchi and Beaufort Seas without investigating your technological ability to deal with a disaster, may I remind you of Deepwater Horizon; by the way, Did Shell Oil ever clean up the Niger River Delta? You people want to hack down the only groups that strive to make you accountable for your irresponsible and destructive behavior. Its not about shutting down big oil and the energy biz its about maintaining checks and balances against absolute power and control, which I’m sure you would like to have. Another question, How do you expect these groups and concerned citizens to approach big oil’s massive power base? By crying to mommy? You people are amazing and I’m fairly certain you will not be happy until you turn the planet into a Madmax like wasteland? I don’t think your worthless dollar supported spine would last long in that setting.

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