Immigration Debate Reveals Philosophical Gap In Congress

July 19, 2010 by Personal Liberty News Desk

Immigration Debate Reveals Philosophical Gap In Congress During a heated debate in Congress about immigration reform, lawmakers took to citing Biblical passages to justify both anti-immigration views as well as approaches that would open a path to citizenship to undocumented aliens.

The development took place during a House Judiciary subcommittee hearing that included religious leaders such as Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention and Bishop Gerald Kicanas from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, according to media reports.

While some of the speakers tried to frame the discussion in terms of basic human rights and dignity, lawmakers such as Texas Representative Lamar Smith cited passages that he said justify a stronger crackdown on illegal immigrants.

Among them was the passage from Romans 13, which states that it is God’s will that individuals should follow the laws set out by governing authorities.

"The Bible contains numerous passages that support the rule of law," Smith said. "The scriptures clearly indicate that God charges civil authorities with preserving order, protecting citizens and punishing wrongdoers."

However, Land and other religious representatives used the scriptures to motivate their support for a comprehensive reform. According to Land, the Bible also teaches us “to care for ‘the least of these among us’ (Matthew 25:34-40), to care for the ‘strangers’ who reside in our land (Leviticus 19:34; Hebrews 13:2) and to act justly and mercifully (Micah 6:8)," quoted by The Denver Post. ADNFCR-1961-ID-19893168-ADNFCR

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Joe williams

This whole administration is lower than a snakes belly. Their mothers and fathers must be dead cause no self respecting mother or father would let their sons/daughters destroy this country. Oh, right , sorry I forgot, these people have no mothers and fathers so that makes the whole lot of them what?
http://Cox.net Janice Bonnecaze

The plan is that the illegal immigrants have to pay a fine. They won’t have the money. They have sent their money back to Mexico , Guatemala, etc. So the fine will be forgiven. If we think there is problem now with them the entering the country, just think of the scramble to get in under ‘umbrella’ of amnesty. Janet Napitano and the president have said we can’t seal the border. Obviously, they need to get consultants from Iran and North Korea. Their borders are sealed tighter than an gnat’s behind.
While we are on this subject, we need to re-visit the 14th ammendment. It should read that for a baby born here to be a citizen, at least of the 2 parents be a legal citizen. That would solve the anchor baby problem.
One more suggestion: Add electricity to the fence. If they still climb the fence, ramp up the electicity until it gets painful enough to discourage them.

Richard Smith

Actually, if the 14th Amendment were to be interpreted as written and as intended, the Jurisdiction Clause would exclude children of illegal aliens from birthright citizenship just as children of diplomats are excluded. Congress can clarify what the 14th Amendment means and legislation has been introduced more than once to do that; but, that legislation has never gotten very far. I think court cases have also been filed to do the same, but the courts refused to hear them for various reasons.

In a more general sense, if the magnets attracting illegal aliens including birthright citizenship, welfare benefits, and jobs were eliminated many/most illegal aliens would leave on their own and deportation would not be needed. Obama, and others, who say the only choices are either deportation (which they say is impossible) or legalization are spouting nonsense. They ignore the 3rd and most viable option of just eliminating the magnets and having the illegals leave on their own.
wayne a

we can skip the fence,just put up many,many signs then mine the borders.cheap,easy fix.

eddie47d

Hey! You were in Michael Moores movie Sicko. You must have stepped on one of your own landmines.
JC

I think mines goes too far. Gaurd towers, lights and belt fed 50 cal’s should do the trick.
http://?? Joe H.

JC,
yeah, but mines don’t have to be manned. Costs money to keep those men out there!!! LOL!
eddie47d

You’re all sicker than I thought. Not really I suspected that long ago.

Bonita

The Constitution separates the Church and State. Our government following the the MINORITY among us has made it almost impossible to read the Bible and Pray in public places (except churches). Now they want to use the Bible to argue their point? to me that is what is called HYPOCRISY. That just goes to show that our government will say and do anything to get what they want and lately that seems to be to screw over their own Citizens.

Kinetic1

The Representative who is quoted here is a Republican who has fought for the right to pray in school! He is a Christian quoting his Bible. What “MINORITY” are you referring to?

http://?? Joe H.

No he’s a RINO type progressive!!!

D. East

The religious left is saying–Open the Borders and let them all come in!

If all these illegal aliens are such great assets to the U.S. Economy, just think what they could do for the economy of their respective countries. I encourage them to go home, help you native country grow.

Those that trespass to cut inline are not the type of individuals we want to become citizens of this great nation. Those that will abandon their native countries are not the type of individuals we want to become citizens of this great nation.
Judi

I lost my job and was forced to take early Social Security at age 62, but Medicare never kicks in until age 65, so I tried to receive MINIMAL medical benefits from Medicaid; all I cared about was an annual physical or emergency care. My request was not approved because my Social Security income made me “ineligible”. There were SIX Americans in the Social Services office and approximately 90 Spanish speaking applicants, for whom “translators are provided” (a big sign said that as well). My granddaughter will be a minority when she reaches school age, and our country has become a 2 language nation and I find this horrendous. We all came from immigrants who came here legally, LEARNED THE LANGUAGE proudly and paid taxes, worked hard and raised families. Anyone who sneaks over a border is a criminal and should not be granted amnesty or even US jail time – they need to be sent back immediately. We have enough criminals of our own without adding to the burden. Wake up, America!!!

http://personalliberty rob

This is the “AGENDA”….Have you heard your elected reps./senators speak to the contrary?? Email/call your congressman/senators/candidates, ask them directly where they stand on “ILLEGAL” immigration…place a bet!!!, you won’t get a response.. If you have a candidate in your state running for an office, now is your chance to put his/her feet to the fire…make them answer to us..These leaders should answer to “WE the PEOPLE”.

http://?? Joe H.

rob,
I have and Steven Latourette is dead set against amnesty for them and against sanctuary cities. The Governor of Ohio, however” is NOT!!!

Steve Coy

To RH Schumann
You are an Idiot, first of all these people came here ILLEGALLY they did not Immigrate. I just left the New Mexican Terrortory formerly California and I worked with and around thse Illegals and they hate us and think we stole this land. What really happened was we kicked their sorry asses and turned a non productive land into the greatest Nation on Earth. Making these people citizens pisses in the face of every legal Immigrant who came here with real intensions of becoming a U.S. Citizen who wants to learn our language and reap the rewards of being a good citizen. What I have seen in California for the last 46 years is hatred and being told I should learn Spanish and not fly the American Flag. You have not weighed the true cost of Blanket Amnesty, we are in a major Recession with over 20 million Americans out of work and 40 Million Illegals in this country taking American jobs, thats right 40 Million ILLEGALS. The 2000 census said that 22-24 Million Illegals were in this country, 2007 Immigration Office said that 1 Million a year have crossed our borders since 9/11 and in 2009 they said up to 5 Million have crossed our borders the last 2 years since Obamanation talked about Amnesty. Now add another 30-50 Million to that amount for their families because they will be allowed to bring their families here too!! Now add those figures to Welfare, State Aid,Medical Care (3rd world Diseases) Schooling and Social Security and you have an Automatic Bankrupt Country. Why would you want all these people here when they have done such a good job with their own Country? Have a nice day, go ahead give away your Country in the name of ????

RHSchumann

OK, so I am an idiot. And I fully agree with you that everybody who lives in the USA should speak English. There is no room for a second language.
Now, does that make idiots of both of us?

rwnut

RHSchumann…You really beleive that if the illegals would just speak English,everything would be fine. Well,here is an English speaking Mexican who is telling you exactly what he intends to do .”I beleive we are practicing ‘La Reconquista’(reconquering)in California”.
rwnut

Quote is from Jose Pescador Osuna,Mexican Consul General in Los Angeles.
JC

Turns out he said most of it in English too. So no, just speaking the language isn’t good enough. You come through the front door, swear allegiance and help support the country.
If that’s a problem, maybe Mexico is for you then…
JC

That’s just a general thought RW.

rwnut

Steve Coy…Hoorah..You are correct on every point!
Kinetic1

Steve’
Where did you get these numbers? The 2000 census estimated 7 million. According to a 2006 article in the Christian Science Monitor, that number had increased to about 8.7 million. Assuming that they knew better since they were closer to the action, “The US Border Patrol union Local 2544 in Tucson, Ariz., says the total number of illegal immigrants in the US today is between 12 million and 15 million.” So much for “22-24 million.”

Now let’s look at the rest of your numbers. You take the number coming in and ignore those going back. You assume that those coming in are all new, unlisted people, but in fact many are repeat offenders who were either deported or left on their own and are now returning. Any way you look at it, your numbers are off.

It’s still a lot of people that need to be dealt with, but good luck if you think you can just deport them all. Yes, we need to better enforce our borders. Yes, we need to better enforce our laws. No, we don’t need under paid illegal workers taking jobs form legal American citizens. What we need is a logical, rational approach that addresses the needs of our country. Once we get there we need to enforce the law. If we had better records, honest employers and strict enforcement of our laws we would not be in the situation we are in now.

wayne a

if our laws are enforced entirely with no exception then yes we could send what illegals that remained back across the border,but we have a present that refuses to secure our borders!
Michael J.

Kenetic 1,
According to Bear Stearns 2006 estimate there were as many as 20 million illegal aliens in this country. Now consider 4 years later with an influx of 1 million per year and 22-24 million is feasable.

As far as deportation of such mass numbers goes, with fed enforcement of existing laws on an as encountered basis, progress can be made. Mass deportation of illegals has happened at least three times in the last century with positive results. Each time the government has moved to rid the country of illegals, three times the number rounded up left on their own accord.
http://?? Joe H.

kinetic,
You may be right that we can’t deport all of them. We sure as hell can make a big dent in their numbers, though!!!

slickporsche

In a few short years , it will be blacks east of the Mississippi, and Hispanics to the west. If you live in the East, you will be required to speak Odumbo, and in the West, it will be Spanish. What a mess.

Kinetic1

According to the U.S. Census, the estimated break up in 2008 was %65 white, %15 Hispanic or Latino and 13% Black. Sounds like you are expecting some amazing things to happen in the next decade!

wayne a

i’m sure the % of hispanics is not even close to what it is now.why do you think they said whites will be a minority no later than 2050!

eddie47d

You and your racial dreams;Your obsessed!

JC

Racism is a liberal obsession…since they have no sense or logic…it’s really “all” they’ve got.
eddie47d

JC Slickporsche and you always defend each others derogatory remarks. Your sickness is spreading!

http://charter howe

It is amazing to me after all these years of having a free and successful Republic that we have to have the wrong kind of intrusion from the churches. They preach their humanitarian philosphy which is fine, but they also denigrate the rule of law with their pleas for helping the lowest of the poor people. We all know we cannot survive as a free nation without a Constitution and the rule of law and although that does not trump God and the Bible, we can only enjoy our freedoms to worship when we first create the environment to do so. That means we have to do some things that the church may not agree with thats what life is all about. I didn’t hear these hypocrits wailing for my rights when I spent twenty nine years in the military with several overseas tours one 12 month tour in Southeast Asia being used for target practice. I was defending the Constitution and our way of life so these hypocrits could make their case for a society that ignores responsibility in favor of spreading the wealth. Religion has been distorted for ages going back to the Crusades where it was OK to kill people for the glory of God. Man has perverted God and the Bible by using radical church teachings to make a talking point. I am a Christian who believes in God and Bible but I am always suspicious of the people who are ordained to administer Gods word because I believe there is a big disconnect there. It may also explain why more and more people are discouraged and drop out of church groups. With some, God is only a convenience to look to when they need a talking point to enhance their character. We need more God and country and right now the Socialist Democrats are taking that away from WE THE PEOPLE. If you want positive change you will have to get the backbone to vote Obama, Pelosi, Reid and all the liberal democrats out in Nov 2010 and 2012, if you want your kids to benefit. The Republicans need to clean up their act also but at least with the conservatives we will have a chance to survive deficit sticker shock and take back our country so that govt gets smaller and gets their nose out of our business and leave us alone to worship without threatening to jail our ministers for expressing an opinion that can be classified as hate speech. The military duty was not kind to my mind or some parts of my body, but I will not be comfortable in my retirement years until I know that comrade Obama, Pelosi and Reid have been voted out of office. Check it out if you want the truth.

eddie47d

Dang that bad Catholic Pelosi and her brood of children. Actually you should love her and her be fruitful and multiply lifestyle.

Steve Coy

I find it astounding that the Liberal Left is allowing the use of the Bible to make their point when for the last 50 years they have been trying to eliminate God and the 10 Commandments from our Country and have allowed an ILLEGAL Foreign born Muslim America Hater in the White House. If you people allow this travesty to continue this November you will see how bad Communisum really is. If you don’t think we are headed this way you don’t know History and you are blinded by being a Demcrat(Communist) first instead of being an American First.

eddie47d

Obama is not a Muslim. The 10 commandments are alive and well if you choose to believe in them. With your rancor I have my doubts.

JC

“The call of the minaret is the sweetest sound on earth”
~ The Kenyan
No he’s no Muslim, nawww not at all…
http://?? Joe H.

JC,
“my Muslim faith” Nope, no Muslim here!!!!

Bo

Strange, they want to fine employers that hire illegals, but don’t want to deport the illegals. Does that mean it’s all right for them to be here, but they can’t have jobs? I guess that it means, let them live here off of the taxpayer.

eddie47d

If the employers do the right thing and check proper papers then illegals won’t apply.If all employers obey the rules then the illegals will go home. If that is what you are trying to get at.

http://?? Joe H.

A lot of them would if the government would make E-verify available to all employers and make it manditory!!!

RHSchumann

The United States has always been open to immigrants. As a matter of fact, immigrants were actively recruited in Europe. After WWI the need for new immigrants lessened and Congress passed laws to restrict the number of new arrivals and set quotas to ensure that the racial and ethnic composition of the country remained the same. That favored Europeans and hindered Latinos and Asians from entering. Immigrants also had to have a sponsor, which ensured that only well qualified people could enter whose skills were needed.
Ever since WWII, most legal immigrants fell into that category. Traditionally, well into the 20th Century, immigrants performed the most menial tasks at the lowest pay, work that no self respecting native born American was willing to do. The Irish, Poles, and Italians are the most notable examples. In order to find people to do that kind of work many businesses, especially agriculture, brought in seasonal workers that did not have permanent residency status. And of course many others came across the leaky Mexican border. To claim that these undocumented (illegal) immigrants are lazy bums who live off American social services is a myth and cynical. Most are hard working and are even paying social security tax. Yes, many later turn to crime such as drug dealing, but by doing so they only joined the armada of native born Americans who engage in the same type of recreation.
Those who demand that all undocumented aliens be deported or, as one commentator suggested be whipped with a nine-tail or executed are barking up the wrong tree. Should we become a Police State? The smart thing to do is document everybody who lives in the USA provided they are law abiding citizens and fully integrate them into society. Those who quote the Bible to justify getting rid of immigrants apparently have not listening to Jesus’ message.

D. East

Read what you wrote…so we should allow them (illegal aliens) to come to take jobs we are not willing to do for ourselves. That’s like saying, I’m too good to clean my own toilet bowl…I’ll pay someone less than minimum wage to clean up after myself–to do the dirty work. That doesn’t seem to be a very religious point of view, now does it. Treating others as though they are the scum of the earth.

Aren’t we also denying their native country the economic opportunity to put this hard working, humble human beings to work to improve the national economy from which they came. Less stop being selfish by only thinking of ourselves. There can be as much economic opportunity in other countries as there is here.

marvin

D. East well said
eddie47d

Shouldn’t you as a Christian be out in the fields then if you can’t stand those who are now doing it. Your comments kind of schuffle both ways.
JC

Shouldn’t you be waving a hammed and sickle somewhere yelling La Raza?

Kinetic1

RHSchumann,
Thanks for the history lesson. For the most part I agree with you. Living in a dairy town I know how hard these people work, doing jobs that Americans used to be willing to do. My Brother worked on a dairy when he was in his teens and he’ll tell you that most of the other kids in town wanted nothing to do with getting up at 4:00 am to deal with cows. Unless we are willing to pay much, much more for our dairy and produce then we do now, we need these workers. Send the criminals home, but those who’s only crime is looking for work, let’s find a balance.

As for how we achieve this balance, I believe we first need to address the employers. If we crack down on employers who knowingly hire illegals, we cut down on the jobs available. Once we have decided which jobs we will open up to immigrants, then we can begin documenting and authorizing those workers who can stay. It won’t be easy and many families will be hurt. We may base our decisions on family, or years already spent here. We will certainly look at police records and gig those who have caused the most trouble. It will not be fair to many, but we have to make some hard choices to benefit all Americans.

If, on the other hand we choose to document and accept anyone who is here and has not caused trouble, we will continue to allow many employers in the construction and other industries to live off cheep labor. Labor prices are based on supply and demand and if we allow for increased supply, the demand for American workers will continue to be short.

All arguments have two sides, but both sides have some truth. The idea that our unemployment situation is the fault of illegal workers is foolish. It is the kind of naive rhetoric used against every new immigrant population that has come to America. On the other hand, some industries are affected and this needs to be addressed. So enough of the” threats of “10 lashes with a ‘Cat-o-NineTails’” and ” Immediate execution” and enough of accepting them all. Let’s take a long, hard rational look at this situation and find a solution that would work.

RHSchumann

Finally somebody with a rational comment!
Of course I do not advocate granting immigrant status much less citizenship to criminals. But it would be in the best interest of the USA to legalize those who are helping our economy to function. If legalized, they would all pay taxes and contribute to SS and pay health insurance. As long as they live on our soil, we will have to take care of their physical needs, like it or not. In the 21st Century we cannot let people starve to death or go without medical care. That may have been possible long ago but not in a country that calls itself civilized. So, let’s have selective legalization for those who came into the USA without authorization. Isn’t that the Christian thing to do?
Much of the debate is because the flood of immigrants (man legal!) from South of the border speak Spanish and many States are being overwhelmed. I am all in favor for forcing them to learn English. No more catering to Spanish speakers. I think this issue really is the root cause of the campaign against illegal immigrants. I myself immigrated to the USA almost 60 years ago and my first order of business was to learn proper English.
rwnut

Tell it to Calderon!
marvin

RHSchumann only fly in the ontment is most are poor and uneducated ,1st point just by coming here illegally the illegals have moved to the front of the immigration line[telling the ones legally waiting for 4 to 5 year you are stuped], 2nd how will they pay there fine and back taxes,for ever illegal household it cost legal american citizen $330 a year to provide goverment services[heritage foundation]and it would cost 2.6 trillion dollars in retirement cost for amnesty illegal aliens[heritage foundation]and 53% of legal and illegal households with kids use welfare and their would be a 75% growth in the uninsured [center forimmigration studies]
rwnut

And the start of that solution is to Slam the borders shut and begin deporting.
marvin

Kinetic1,,immigration is not i repeat is not the same as criminal invasion,immigration is thru legal means walking in to another country is not legal, that is called illegal entry and is not legal,here is an idea go try that in mexico or iran or for that matter most all country i guarante you won,t like the results all liberals need to try that would sure get ready off or at lest walk you up
Jeep

You are so right Kinetic! Any alien that has committed a crime should be deported. Oh wait…that would be ALL of them. It is illegal to come here without documentation and going through the proper and LEGAL process. So, you are right on, deport any illegal alien that has committed a crime.

wayne a

SCHUMANN,what planet do you come from? first,in the late 1800′s,early 1900′s the immigrants that came here, came here to to become Americans,to contribute to our country.there were many skilled workers,scientists,teachers,woodworkers etc.now the illegals thats coming across our borders are their poor,unskilled and uneducated.according to the LA Times 48% of the illegals are on some kind of welfare.contrary to your comments most illegals do not pay taxes!and where do you get your facts that most are hard workers? most are here for the free ride and to get what they can get out of our country.they have no desire to become Americans and couldn’t care less about our country!in fact last yr. they sent back over 20 billion dollars to their homeland.that would have been a nice shot to our economy!

eddie47d

Explain where you get the idea they came here for a free ride and don’t work hard. They always do back breaking work and sometimes they get injured or sick and have to use our services. I have seen Americans who refuse to work and are lazy so you are way off base.
JC

Well then it only seems fair then doesn’t it eddie…that lazy Americans should have the same right to starve to death if they don’t want to work, right?
And that’s a great point you make…we already have enough problems of our own, we don’t need Mexico’s.
http://?? Joe H.

edduh,
If they are all such hard workers, then why, in certain parts of Adrian Michigan and certain areas of Painesville Ohio you can travel night or day and see them all piled on their porches drinking beer and looking for trouble? Painesville is a sanctuary city and they know they don’t have a thing to worry about from the police unless they commit a crime! Drive through some of these sanctuary cities and OPEN your eyes! Matter of fact, I dare you to drive through “little Mexico in L.A.!! You might make it, but then again you might end up dead and in the sewers!!!
eddie47d

Sitting on their porches and looking for trouble.Now that’s an oxymoron. They probably can’t afford to do much more than to sit on their porches you dofus!

Mexico is going to annex the U.S. by default.

It has been reported that there are 30 million hispanics living in the United states 20 million of which are Mexican. Mexico Has a population of 100 million people including the Mexicans that are living in the U.S. (Mexicans can and do have dual citizenship)

That means that 1/10 of Mexicos population is here in the U.S. sponging off our social services and welfare.

Only one solution to this get rid of them by ANY means deportation attrition or any other name you can think of but get rid of them.

eddie47d

Tanks and bayonets anyone? Sign up at defaults office next to Lucifers.

JC

If necessary.
eddie47d

Your an un-American coward or maybe only a fascist drip.

Marv

I think the silent majority is about to the boiling point. I have no problem with any race. we are all the lords children. this is not a race problem. this a problem with the people in D C to up hold the constitution they are there to do. we need a house cleaning in D C. lets not wait any longer vote the crooks out. I mean all of them and start over with people that can reed the constitution and do what it says. Not try to change it to what they want to give them more power. did they not learn how to read or even go to school. any 1st grader can better understand what the constitution says than they can.
http://www.charter.net James A Graham

God’s peace
In God We Trust

Barack Obama is the best thing that has happened to America in the last 100 years. Truly, he is the savior of America’s future. He is the best thing ever.

Despite the fact that he has some of the lowest approval ratings among recent presidents, history will see Barack Obama as the source of America’s resurrection. Barack Obama has plunged the country into levels of debt that we could not have previously imagined; his efforts to nationalize health care have been met with fierce resistance nationwide; TARP bailouts and stimulus spending have shown little positive effect on the national economy; unemployment is unacceptably high and looks to remain that way for most of a decade; legacy entitlement programs have ballooned to unsustainable levels, and there is a seething anger in the populace.

That’s why Barack Obama is such a good thing for America.

Obama is the symbol of a creeping liberalism that has infected our society like a cancer for the last 100 years. Just as Hitler is the face of fascism, Obama will go down in history as the face of unchecked liberalism. The cancer metastasized to the point where it could no longer be ignored.

Average Americans who have quietly gone about their lives, earning a paycheck, contributing to their favorite charities, going to high school football games on Friday night, spending their weekends at the beach or on hunting trips — they’ve gotten off the fence. They’ve woken up. There is a level of political activism in this country that we haven’t seen since the American Revolution, and Barack Obama has been the catalyst that has sparked a restructuring of the American political and social consciousness.

Think of the crap we’ve slowly learned to tolerate over the past 50 years as liberalism sought to re-structure the America that was the symbol of freedom and liberty to all the people of the world. Immigration laws were ignored on the basis of compassion. Welfare policies encouraged irresponsibility, the fracturing of families, and a cycle of generations of dependency. Debt was regarded as a tonic to lubricate the economy. Our children left school having been taught that they are exceptional and special, while great numbers of them cannot perform basic functions of mathematics and literacy. Legislators decided that people could not be trusted to defend their own homes, and stripped citizens of their rights to own firearms. Productive members of society have been penalized with a heavy burden of taxes in order to support legions of do-nothings who loll around, reveling in their addictions, obesity, indolence, ignorance and “disabilities.” Criminals have been arrested and re-arrested, coddled and set free to pillage the citizenry yet again. Lawyers routinely extort fortunes from doctors, contractors and business people with dubious torts.

We slowly learned to tolerate these outrages, shaking our heads in disbelief, and we went on with our lives.

But Barack Obama has ripped the lid off a seething cauldron of dissatisfaction and unrest.

In the time of Barack Obama, Black Panther members stand outside polling places in black commando uniforms, slapping truncheons into their palms. ACORN — a taxpayer-supported organization — is given a role in taking the census, even after its members were caught on tape offering advice to set up child prostitution rings. A former Communist is given a paid government position in the White House as an advisor to the president. Auto companies are taken over by the government, and the auto workers’ union — whose contracts are completely insupportable in any economic sense — is rewarded with a stake in the company. Government bails out Wall Street investment bankers and insurance companies, who pay their executives outrageous bonuses as thanks for the public support. Terrorists are read their Miranda rights and given free lawyers. And, despite overwhelming public disapproval, Barack Obama has pushed forward with a health care plan that would re-structure one-sixth of the American economy.

I don’t know about you, but the other day I was at the courthouse doing some business, and I stepped into the court clerk’s office and changed my voter affiliation from “Independent” to “Republican.” I am under no illusion that the Republican party is perfect, but at least they’re starting to awaken to the fact that we cannot sustain massive levels of debt; we cannot afford to hand out billions of dollars in corporate subsidies; we have to somehow trim our massive entitlement programs; we can no longer be the world’s policeman and dole out billions in aid to countries whose citizens seek to harm us.

Literally millions of Americans have had enough. They’re organizing, they’re studying the Constitution and the Federalist Papers, they’re reading history and case law, they’re showing up at rallies and meetings, and a slew of conservative candidates are throwing their hats into the ring. Is there a revolution brewing? Yes, in the sense that there is a keen awareness that our priorities and sensibilities must be radically re-structured. Will it be a violent revolution? No. It will be done through the interpretation of the original document that has guided us for 220 years — the Constitution. Just as the pendulum swung to embrace political correctness and liberalism, there will be a backlash, a complete repudiation of a hundred years of nonsense. A hundred years from now, history will perceive the year 2010 as the time when America got back on the right track. And for that, we can thank Barack Hussein Obama

Michael J.

James A Graham,
Excellent!

http://www.charter.net James A Graham

Rusty Ivie

——————————————————————————–

Subject: The Dinner Roll

The Dinner Roll ..

Once upon a time I was invited to the White House for a private dinner with the President.

I am a respected businessman, with a factory that produces memory chips for computers and portable electronics.

There was some talk that my industry was being scrutinized by the administration, but I paid it no mind. I live in a FREE country. There’s nothing that the government can do to me if I’ve broken no laws. My wealth was EARNED honestly, and an invitation to dinner with an American President is an honor.

I checked my coat, was greeted by the Chief of Staff, and joined the President in a yellow dining room.

We sat across from each other at a table draped in white linen. The Great Seal was embossed on the china. Uniformed staff served our dinner.

The meal was served, and I was startled when my waiter suddenly reached out, plucked a dinner roll off my plate and began nibbling it as he walked back to the kitchen..

“Sorry ’bout that,” said the President. “Andrew is very hungry.”

“I don’t appreciate…” I began, but as I looked into the calm brown eyes across from me, I felt immediately guilty and petty. It was just a dinner roll. “Of course,” I concluded, and reached for my glass.

Before I could, however, another waiter reached forward, took the glass away and swallowed the wine in a single gulp. “And his brother, Eric, is very thirsty,” said the President.

I didn’t say anything. The President is testing my compassion, I thought. I withheld my comments and decided to play along. I don’t want to seem unkind..

My plate was whisked away before I had tasted a bite.

“Eric’s children are also quite hungry.”

With a lurch, I crashed to the floor. My chair had been pulled out from under me.

I stood, brushing myself off angrily, and watched as it was carried from the room.

And their grandmother can’t stand for long.”

I excused myself, smiling outwardly, but inside feeling like a fool. Obviously I had been invited to the White House to be sport for some game. I reached for my coat, to find that it had been taken.

I turned back to the President.

“Their grandfather doesn’t like the cold.”

I wanted to shout, “that was my coat!” But again, I looked at the placid smiling face of my host and decided I was being a poor sport. I spread my hands helplessly and chuckled.

Then I felt my hip pocket and realized my wallet was gone. I excused myself and walked to a phone on an elegant side table.

I learned shortly that my credit cards had been maxed out, my bank accounts emptied, my retirement and equity portfolios had vanished, and my wife had been thrown out of our home.

Apparently, the waiters and their families were moving in. The President hadn’t moved or spoken as I learned all this, but finally I lowered the phone into its cradle and turned to face him.

“Andrew’s whole family has made bad financial decisions. They haven’t planned for retirement and they need a house. They recently defaulted on a subprime mortgage. I told them they could have your home. They need it more than you do.”

My hands were shaking. I felt faint I stumbled back to the table and knelt on the floor.

The President cheerfully cut his meat, ate his steak, and drank his wine. I lowered my eyes and stared at the small grey circles on the tablecloth that were water drops.

“By the way,” he added, “I have just signed an Executive Order nationalizing your factories.

I’m firing you as head of your business. I’ll be operating the firm now for the benefit of all mankind.

There’s a whole bunch of Erics and Andrews out there and they can’t come to you for jobs groveling like beggars…we need to spread YOUR wealth around…”

I looked up. The President dropped his spoon into the empty ramekin which had been his crème Brule.

He drained the last drops of his wine. As the table was cleared, he lit a cigarette and leaned back in his chair.

He stared at me. I clung to the edge of the table as if it were a ledge and I were a man hanging over an abyss.

I thought of the years behind me, of the life I had lived. The life I had earned with a lifetime of work, risk and struggle.

Why was I punished? How had I allowed it to be taken? What game had I played and lost? I looked across the table and noticed with some surprise that there was no game board between us.

What had I done wrong?

As if answering the unspoken thought, President Obama suddenly cocked his head, locked his empty eyes to mine, and bared a million teeth, chuckling wryly as he folded his hands.

“You should have stopped me at the dinner roll,” he said.

WAKE UP AMERICA !!!

eddie47d

Tacky!

http://?? Joe H.

only if you are talking about Nobamas sticky fingers!!!

JC

Accurate analogy. Don’t give them ANYthing!
224 Barbara

Wow! What a perfect analogy. The goodness and kindness and guilt of Americans is leading us to this scary scenario.

Bob

Beware of “Viva Aztlan” and “La Reconquista”. Being “taken care of” is exactly what these illegals want when they come here. Free everything, schooling, food, housing, etc. It is the same attitude of entitlement we see amongst many of our own minorities, and “WE the people” who are paying for it all and have NOTHING for our own retirements are SICK of paying through the nose for it all. They MUST obey our laws and STOP trying to conquer the U.S. south by population explosion. It’s getting REALLY OLD.

Al Sieber

Bob, I agree with you on that. instead of taking back their country and changing it they come here with the excuse that we owe them, and we have to make sure they get everything they think they deserve. pretty soon we’re gonna run out of other people’s money and it’s gonna get real interesting. these are not the same people that used to come here to work.

JC

They’ll turn America into just another Mexican toilet.
And the Kenyan is bound and determiined that we pay them to do it.
ALL of the illegals have to go.
Al Sieber

You got that right, you can see it already.
http://?? Joe H.

Al sieber,
They are too lazy to do that! Guess that shows the lie in them being so hard working, doesn’t it? The dark lie to government health Care is uncloaked as well. They have free health care there now but it is such CRAP that they would rather commit a crime by crossing the border and get US care. That won’t work so well when Nobama care goes into effect!!!

sam

Republicans and Democrats are both responsible for this problem.
So the people that keep bashing the party in power with out taking in consideration what the last administration did or should say (DID NOT DO) are hypocrites.
And using the Bible like a weapon to push political issues is just wrong.
If you have faith in your life then try having and using some.

wayne a

SAM,i agree it was the responsibility of both parties.but why do we have a president that wants to make all ilegals citizens and refuses to secure our borders?

eddie47d

He is securing the border but you wouldn’t believe it anyway. These people also work here and many for decades. I more I listen to people like you the more I know these immigrants work harder than you ever had. I hope you are telling your kids or grandkids to get out into those fields and do an honest days work. Could they last a day,a week, we’ll see.
JC

They are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS moron…period!
eddie47d

Your mouth is illegal.I think it needs an emission sticker or tape.
http://?? Joe H.

edduh47DUH!,
Tell you what. When you and say 12 of your buddies sneak into Mexico and go through what the Mexican government does to you, I will support granting citizen ship to one of them, it will be worth it to get rid of you from these posts FOREVER!!! Like I said earlier, they will deport you, jail you, or shoot you!!!! Go ahead, try it!!!
Al Sieber

eddie47d, the more you post this crap the more you show us you have no idea whats going on here in Ariz. you don’t know what people have to go through living out here on a day to day basis having to deal with illegals trespassing, breaking into houses, stealing, damaging property, etc. the reason illegal border crossing is down is because it’s summer, and temp. can reach 115 degrees easily, and you can’t carry enough water to make the crossing, they find a lot of bodies in the fall. do your research before you open your mouth.
eddie47d

Illegal immigration is down all year you get your facts straight.The only thing you work hard at is being disgusting.
Al Sieber

eddie47d, you wouldn’t last 1 minute doing hard work, I could out work you any day of the week in the heat, and I’m 60.
Al Sieber

And Mexicans don’t work any harder then we do.

Jeff Reynolds

Somedays I just feel like I’m alone on my own planet where I’m the only one who sees what’s going on in this country as others look at me like I have 2 heads when I give them just little tidbits of what’s coming our way in the very short future. A great majority of America was fooled by this shyster we call president (I don’t myself) and the Democrat Congress and Senate that backs everything this clown does, why? because they are all corrupt and fall for the same promises alot of Americans did when they voted for this phony (I still refuse to belive he is even a U.S. citizen) why else would he pay a law firm just under a hot MILLION to keep people from digging into his background. We’ve all seen the picture and certificate from Indonesia where he is listed as Barry Sorbel and a Muslim at that! When are we all going to get mad enough to storm the Capitol and take our country back from there stuffed shirt Elitist traitors one by one because whether they know it or not he has no regard for them either he plays on their greed and lust for power, yet they will all take you know where in the end – Exibit A – Stupack. This guy has an agenda and I fear if we don’t rise uo fast he will destroy this country within a year. And I could go on and on, but just watch Beck and you’ll get the full story based on facts not lies which this entire presidency is predicated upon. He just lies with impudity like we’re all idiots out here. Come on America lets get this idiot impeached and the easiest way may be oncovering his real background.
ANOTHER ANGRY AMERICAN
Big Ugly

There exists, already, a ‘path to citizenship’ for These United States. Anyone who fails to exercise the means already in existence is a criminal and MUST be treated as such. If anyone is caught in VIOLATION of the LAW, they should FOREVER be banned from any attempt to gain citizenship. They are CRIMINAL and MUST be treated as such.

Recommendations for Illegal Immigration;
1) First offence – minimal medical care (immediate life-saving only). One pound of bread and one gallon of water. Immediate deportation.
2) Second offence – 10 lashes with a ‘Cat-o-NineTails’. Immediate deportation.
3) Third offence – Immediate execution as soon as identity and ‘third-strike’ is confirmed. Carcass left to rot where it falls. Publish the names in a special announcement – if anyone wants to claim the bodies, they may make application to do so – minimum delay of 3 days, maximum delay of 7 days, in processing the application.

These people are CRIMINALS – I don’t care what their ‘reason’ or ‘excuse’.
Drug dealers, thieves, rapists, murders, etc., are ‘just trying to make their own lives more enjoyable …… Why are you trying to stop them from improving the quality of THEIR lives?

Criminal is CRIMINAL! Period
Even in our own Congress ….. CRIMINAL IS CRIMINAL.
Perhaps our Congress should try reading the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and their respective State Constitutions.
But, then again, then they would have to be ‘responsible’ wouldn’t they ….. can’t have that, now can we?

sam

Big Ugly’s statement sounds like something out of a WWII history on the Nazi movement.
We all remember how well that work out for Germany.

Mike Austin,TX

Typical liberal response. Next you will bring up the racist card. Would you prefer to feed and clothe them in your house? They are taking from mine and I don’t approve. That is theft.
224 Barbara

Sam, try to understand that Big Ugly is using hyperbole. The point is that illegal aliens are just that — illegal. That means they are criminals. And criminals should be punished. If I run a red light and am caught I will be punished because I did something illegal. Some the silly comparison to Nazi Germany. There is no comparison. Now repeat 100X: Illegals are criminals, illegals are crimminals..

wayne a

couldn’t have said it better

eddie47d

Your far from being a Christian in words or action.
JC

And you, being a communist are unworthy of judging anyone or anything…slither back under your rock.
http://?? Joe H.

JC,
there was an illegal that was admitted to the cleveland hospital a few years back. He was in a coma and his bill was at almost one million dollars before they convinced the Mexican government to take him off their hands! The bill was never paid, not even a few dollars. The hospital had to eat the cost and guess who ended up paying for it? the American people that became paying patients of course. The real stupid part was a little over a week after they handed the guy over to Mexico, he mysteriously DIED!!!!
eddie47d

JC The famous name caller. I can’t because you’re already under that rock.

OneDamnAngryAmerican

Anybody remember the Faulklands War? It started with about 20 Argentine military forces who landed on South Georgia Island, taking over an bandoned building and then raising the Argentine flag. The UK only has about 2K people living there. After Argentina raised their flag, stating that the Faulklands belonged to them, 2,300 more Argentine forces showed up for the invasion. Most of the UK residents there are frail and elderly. They have a police force under 20 people and there was only about 500 UK troops there. The UK demanded that they leave, which they did not, so the Queen sent 5,000 troops there, to defend their country. When the Argentine troops finally figured out that the UK was serious, they surrendered, turning a police-matter of tresspassing into a military matter of war, so that the cowards of Argentina (who finally figured it out and surrendered) would be treated as prisoners-of-war, and not as “tresspassers.” The rest is history. Doesn’t any American realize the similarity of what is happeninmg to America? 91% of the illegals in this country are from Mexico. If the USA would treat this as a military matter and not as a law enforcement matter, we wouldn’t have to deport any of them. THEY WOULD RUN FOR FEAR OF THEIR LIVES! But, I guess our tin soldiers in DC can only talk the talk and don’t know how to walk the walk, to protect America. Protecting America takes a pair of balls, obviously something the WH and members of the HOR DON’T HAVE! I feel sorry for my country. Every male member of all 5 generations of my family were wounded in battle defending our country. Now, it is being given away by people who refuse to do what it takes to protect it. SHAME ON EVERY AMERICAN WHO CONTINUES TO REFUSE TO PROTECT WHAT WE HAVE AND WHO AGREE THAT US CITIZENSHIP IS JUST NOTHING MORE VALUABLE THEN A $500 FINE! I am ashamed to be an American and more ashamed of the sacrafices all of our military have done in the name of freedom. Freedom has never been free. But, now, under demokratic rule, it has become nothing more then CHEAP! God save us all!

http://personalliberty rob

ODAA,
I LOVE YOUR PASSION…what you said spoke VOLUMES…I have been trying to say all along ” I ONLY HOPE WE ARE WAKING UP”!!!!. BUT, I fear that we have become passive and lazy…If there is something to be learned here, the biggest change that needs to be made is that “WE the PEOPLE” need to keep our elected reps. in our state and federal positions accountable to us….”THEY WORK FOR US” and they need to “REPRESENT” us….Now with that being said, please look at history over the past 20 years regarding “ILLGAL IMMIGRATION”, republicans and democrats alike have allowed this “INVASION”.
Kinetic1

OneDamnAngryAmerican,
By your own words this comparison is false. Yes, many people have come her illegally from Mexico and many have committed other crimes, but where is their flag? When did they demand control of our country and where are the Mexican Troops that will demand our surrender?

Under our laws, the laws that you and your family fought to protect, we cannot declare war against these people. They are not here as soldiers of their country. Most are otherwise honest people here to find work. Are you really suggesting that we declare martial law and round up anyone who may be here illegally? Would you really support our government walking all over the Bill of Rights? The idea of ejecting anyone who is here illegally sounds good, but consider the power the government would have to impose on all of us to get the job done. When was the last time you saw our government give up new powers? One of the reasons President Obama was elected is that many assumed he would overturn things like the Patriot act, Illegal wire tapping and the new Presidential powers that Bush gave himself, but he continues to protect these and other powers. If we declared war against these immigrants, are you really so confident that we would gain as much as we would loose?

rwnut

In Sacramento they drive around with the Mexican flag flying from their cars,and Mexican flags flying from buildings. Armed Mexican troops have crossed into America many times to harrass American border agents.
“They are afraid we’re going to take over the government institutions and other institutions. They’re right. We will take them over…We are here to stay”.Richard Alatorre,L.A.City Council
“We’re going to take over all the political institutions of California. In five years the Hispanics are going to be the majority population of this state. Anyone who doesn’t like it should leave. They ought to go back to Europe”. Co-founder of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Ed. Fund.
JC

And they’ll have Cali looking like Tijuana in no time flat!
Michael J.

Kinetic1,
Maybe you should broaden your horizons with something other than the nationalized Obamedia. For a dose of reality, check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMiRxsUz5bM

I would think that even liberal progressives become fatigued when watching Chris Olberman, Kieth Matthews and Rachel Mannow night after night.
Kinetic1

Michael J’
Ok, I’ve watched it. I saw one guy waving a Mexican flag. I also saw asians, blacks and maybe a few white guys in the riots. I can point you to videos of all sorts of stupid people rioting for all sorts of stupid reasons. Everyone there should be locked up and/or fined. What does this have to do with the Mexican government waging war on America?

rwnut,
If legal citizens of Mexican heritage are elected to office, that is American. If we enforce our voting laws and only allow American voters to choose our leaders, and one region becomes mostly Hispanic, that is American. This is not an illegal takeover by a hostile foreign government. If California finds itself with a largely Hispanic government, it is still a part of the United States. Look around, Hispanics are not the first immigrants to become the majority in a region. What would you have us do? Should we outlaw the election of people from certain cultures? Is heritage now a qualifier for government office? You know, I’m not too happy about what Hitler did, so maybe we should exclude people of German heritage from Government.
Michael J.

Oh Kenetic One,
Actually, there were multiple Mexican flags being waved in this scene of violence. As for the nationality of some of the participants, I’ll leave that for you to decide sense you are probably better at racial profiling.
Michael J.

Kenetic 1,
BTW, illegal imigration now and back in 40′s when Eisenhower was forced to deal with it, is/was covertly sponsored by the Mexican government.
Also, 80% of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals. Drug cartels spend a half-billion dollars per year bribing Mexico’s corrupt generals and police officials, and armed confrontations between the Mexican army and U.S. Border Patrol agents are a real threat. There have been 118 documented incursions by the Mexican military over the last five years
http://?? Joe H.

kenetic,
There are areas of cities all over this country where the police are afraid to enter or patrol as they are out guned, out numbered and they are being killed at a rate way higher than other areas by Mexican gangs!!! Tell me THAT isn’t an invading force!!!
Julie

You and rwnut are talking about two different things. Rwnut is talking about Mexicans, people from and for expanding the country of Mexico. You are talking about a culture. No one is against cultural diversity. But I sure as hell am against losing part of my country to another!
George E

Kinetic1,

I think I agree with you that the illegal immigration problem should not be a military matter. I conclude this because no foreign government has claimed sovereignty over US territory or has openly encouraged its citizens to violate US laws. Having said that, I believe the government of Mexico has come painfully close to this line by some of their recent statements and the fact that they haven’t discouraged their citizens from violating US immigration laws. Also, illegal immigration on our Southern border has become a very dangerous situation primarily because the drug lords have co-opted it. They use illegal immigrants to carry their drugs into the US, and may use them once here to distribute drugs or otherwise work in the drug organizations. It sounds to me that this situation is much worse today than in past years. Since our police forces on the border aren’t staffed, armed, and trained to deal with well financed and well armed armies of drug dealers, they may need the help of our military forces until this situation can be controlled.

What rights do illegal immigrants have in the US? I suspect they only have those human rights enumerated in international law since they aren’t supposed to be in the US anyway. Why would they fall under US law? So, I’m saying illegal immigrants probably don’t (or shouldn’t) fall under the protection of our Bill of Rights since they are not US citizens.

Regarding abuses of the law, that can happen under almost any law we already have on the books by our law enforcement and regulating agencies if they want to. Hopefully, that doesn’t happen too often or for too long before it is eliminated. However, we know abuses do happen under the best of circumstances. That doesn’t mean we don’t need laws to protect us because some nitwit bureaucrat might abuse it. It does mean we need laws that are within the bounds of our Constitution and International law (when dealing with matters outside the US) that are both respectful and respected. I’ve heard claims that the Patriot Act was a violation of the Constitution, and that our government will (or has) abused US citizens enforcing it. However, I have yet to hear a single case where a US citizen was actually violated or abused. I have heard a number of cases where foreigners who are believed to be potential terrorists have been contained with this law. Nevertheless, I do not endorse any law that really does give our government more power than it needs to effectively fight those who would harm us.
http://?? Joe H.

George E,
Actually el presidente of Mexico has said that Mexicans know no borders! That IS inciting it’s people to enter this country illegally. He also said that the people of Mexico still thought of the southwest as part of Mexico!
George E

Joe,

As I said, Mexico is walking very close to the line. Our politicians need to let them know that there is just so much of this crap that we’ll take from them.
marvin

Kinetic1,,you ask were is their flag you must be deaf dumd and blind,i have watch illegals marching and demanding under a flag that is not american, the grope mexica movement said we are indigenous the only owners of this continent, the group la raza founder joes angel gutierrez said we got to eliminate the gringo and i what i mean is if worse comes to worse we got to kill him ;[white man] real good none american citizens
blamesomeoneelse

press one for english, say that sounds american! There are more hispanic speaking TV stations in Texas then there are english. Our papers, bills, laws, phone calls come in two lanuages. Our grade schools teach to spanish, the good paying jobs are for people that can speak, and write in spanish. Soon they will be the majority and those who don’t read, write spanish will have to learn or move. No illegals are not taking over, we are just so nice. Why do we not have all the world lanuages, press 20 for german, press 56 for french, press 901 for english…
By the way I had picked vegtables at one time it isn’t that hard. I grow some crops in the back yard and I don’t hire illegals to pick them, I do it myself.
You may find that your childrens social security number is being used by an illegal to get a job so how do businesses know without being able to ask if they are citizens or check because it is racial profiling. Drivers license are made for a fee and they don’t even have to take a driver test or pay state fees. Oh the list goes on and on. They don’t just break one law, it becomes the norm and the good part is they can change idenity at anytime. I know of illegals that collect food stamps from using other peoples idenity, you say turn them in, haha that is what Arizona is trying to do and Obama is sueing them. One day you may find that someone else who is not legal is collecting your social security or retirement plan, good luck on catching them. You may have to lose your home and credit then what? Go to Obama for government hand outs!
http://?? Joe H.

blame,
the real bad thing about them using your kids SS number is that when your kid gets older and goes to get credit, they find they DON’T have any!!! They find out someone has had their number in use for a few years and run up credit all over. Try clearing that from your record if you think it’s easy!!!

Joe williams

Very well put my friend. I read this dribble every day and wonder who among you will fight for their freedom. If 1 man steps fordward alone he will be crushed, but if that man steps fordward with thousands of others behind him, at least he has a chance. But, faceing reality, the dammage is done, the anti christ is here and he wont go away with words.There are no democrats or rebublicians, just a bunch of power drunk humans that put on a show in front of the public. They will do anything to stave of attacks on THEIR power and what they think of the ordinary man? Well, its obivious what they think. The Goverment knows best how to run our lives. Welcome to the new Socialist America!!!!
wayne a

ANGRY AMERICAN,it has nothing to do with having balls,its all about votes.if obama gets his way the 20 million illegals will become citizens which in turn would become democrat voters that would assure his re-election!
wayne a

KINETIC,speaking of flying flags,do you recall the two cases where 4 students were suspended for wearing tshirts with American flags on them because the hispanics was celebrating a mex holiday or the case where they were flying a mex flag above the American flag at a highschool so a student took down the mex flag and was suspended!several months ago there was a news report out of atlanta that took a news crew and a former congressman from ga. to the borders of Arz.they obtained a list of captured illegals and their country.on that list there were 100′s of illegals from every terrorist supporting country in the the world!do think they were here just to work here? their research showed that they would come across to south amer,learn spanish then blend in with the other illegals crossing the borders.if these terrorist that are here to do harm to the US and kill our citizens isn’t a military concern then what is?
eddie47d

Serving in the military alone (in itself) doesn’t give you or me the right to condemn immigrants and put them in a war situation. They also picked fruits and vegtables for you and your family while you were serving. You should have learned that from our Japanese internment camps we set up. That was a bad move and done out of fear not facts.

http://?? Joe H.

edduh,
no one here is suggesting internment camps for them, we’re saying kick their azzes HOME!!!!
eddie47d

Oh Bull! Many on this site have said deport them all. That means jails(camps) until it all can be sorted out. Think before you speak.

Barbara Humphrey

Yes, let’s please separate church and state, a concept that has only been around for about 300 years on these shores! Respect for people, believe in the dignity of life, justice and liberty come from our Declaration of Independence and Constitution, the law of the land. Take your bibles back to church, and let the rule of law reign in this instance, and also in others, such as abortion, teaching evolution in the schools, etc. Yea, separation of church and state.

George E

Barbara,

That sounds good except for the fact that religious documents and ideals form the ethics and values foundation for our laws. If you don’t rely on these religious sources then what would you turn to to define ethics and values? Fortunately, many of the values expressed in one religion are shared by most other religions, so even though our Founders based many of their concepts on Christian teachings, those teachings aren’t all that different from teachings in other religions. Obviously, atheists object to any religious teachings, but so far as I’m aware, they haven’t offered an alternative that is acceptable to the majority of Americans and can substitute for religious teachings without leaving a void in defining ethics and values.
Mike Austin,TX

The seperation means the State should not be tied closely with the church. Look a bit deeper than just the one sentence. We have always had seperation. Even with prayers, bibles and “One Nation Under God” we allow the choice and that to me was the original intention.
http://?? Joe H.

Barbara,
Look back at when they took prayer out of the schools and religous symbols out of government buildings. About what 25 years ago? Look at the teen pregnancy rate in the last 25 years. Doubled? Tripled? Yup taking prayer out of the schools sure was a GOOD thing, wasn’t it? They actually called the teen pregnancy rate an epidemic!

eyeswideopen

JoeH, why don’t you ask Palin, where she failed in educating her daughter about pregancy? Have you considered that the rate didn’t really expand that much, the population has gotten larger. But it is funny that one of the “most conservative” has a daughter who fell off of that perfect pedestal. It is sad that the poor girl was afraid to tell her mother that she was engaged.

Gale Dawson

Take care of strangers who are here legally. I am a 61 yr old American born and raised. I have obeyed the laws of this land all my life. They didn’t by coming here illegally. The political correctness of the so called elites is wrong. Hand slapping of judges throughout this land is wrong. I served for 9 yr’s in the Marine Corps, now handicapped. When are you college edumacated people going to open your eyes and admit your stipidity and make all people obey the laws of the land and quit adding onto them when you don’t even now have enough hair on your ass to enforce the ones we have. Stupid. And people have pushed union leaders for more and more and forced large company’s out of the country. Reinstate the draft and stop abortion and maybe God will heal our land. You people are destroying it.

J.M.R.

this is what we get from electing lawyers in public office

Disgusted

Amen to that. If I even see that a candidate is a lawyer I will consider not supporting that person based on that knowledge alone.
RPS

Acutally this is what we get for electing career politicians, Ben Franklin stated that there should be NO career politicians… they should serve the people for a time and then return to their farms (business’s). That is how big business gets politicians into their pockets. Politiciians do not write the bills .. they don’t even read the bills … they mearly vote them in because their big business backers tell them to.

As far as seperation of church and state is concerned, it is clearly stated that no single church will be able to control this country as in the Church of England. It has nothing to do with praying in schools or having the 10 commandments posted in our courts .. by the way what do you think most of our laws are based on … shall we throw those out also …. Thou shalt not kill … it is illegal to murder another person … shall we throw those both out?
eddie47d

That means even a Christian church can’t dominate our government yet many have tried. (Oral Roberts,Pat Robertson,Liberty University). God can be apart of government but no individual religion.
Christin

Most of the Dems are lawyers.
I would consider voting for a “Constitutional Lawyer”… that is one who has studied the Constitution and its laws and not the “case law,” new laws won by lawyers and judges in court, that is taught in the universities now.
Most people who like the Constitution are Conservatives.

Arizona YOU ARE NOT ALONE! Many of us come from a border state, too, and those that don’t are experiencing much of these problems, too. Rhode Island has a law as well already!

Our country doesn’t seem to be in a position to help the entire world financially… we are in debt and can not repay it all… ever.

Let the Constitution and the Amendments be our Rule of Law.
I am all for the Ten Commandments in the Bible as well.

God loves us and has blessed us, but He is also Just and disciplines those that do not obey.
Jeep

America tried that with Oman…didn’t he claim to be a “Constitutional Lawyer”?

OneDamnAngryAmerican

If the HOR wants to read something that will give them clear concious as to what to do about illegal immigration, I suggest they read the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES! Particularly the section that makes it illegal for THEM to aid and abet an invading force and specifically the section that says that they are to protect the UNITED STATES from INVASION by a foreign force! O’Bama says he doesn’t want 50 different immigration laws. I would suggest HE & his BAND OF CROOKS start enforcing the Constitution, before they end up with 50 Republics, i.e., states who will probably succeed from the Union in order to protect their citizens. It was exactly this protection by the Union that seems now to have been “coerced” to these “republics” to become members. It would appear to me that the only way any “state” can protect themselves, now, is to revert back to their status, prior to joining a government that has since lied to them about what being a part of the Union would be for them! Mexico’s presidential visit to the HOR several months ago, was nothing more than a demand for surrender, which the democrats met with nothing more then furverent applause!

Gram-ma Rita

The first state to sucede from the Nation is where I want to live! I’ve had it with the entire bunch of idiots in Washington D.C.! Keep me posted on the state that actually has the guts to suceed and I will be moving there ASAP.

Ellen

Gram-ma Rita, Let’s go there together!!!!
Anita

Me too!!!
Michael J.

If all you girls are headed there, count me in too/also.
eyeswideopen

Gram-ma, go and please take all the other radicals with you. But please don’t expect the rest of us to foot the bill for your security, healthcare, education, transportation, etc. Build a wall around that state and go back to the 19 century and isolate yourselves from 21 century living standards and practices. Go, please take all the other radicals with you and GO!!!
Julie

I would much rather live where the people actually have a backbone and aren’t “tolerant” of every whim of society. If your eyes are wide open you probably should pull your head out of the sand.

Madeleine

Religious leaders have no business telling our Government what they should do or offering a plea on behalf of illegal immigrants , especially reciting passages from the bible considering our children can not even pray in school, where were they on that? Here is the perfect example of where separation of church and state should kick in. The immigrants who are coming here now are not the least among us, we Americans are the least among us not the Muslims and not the Mexicans, our Government is trying their darndest to get them in here but going agaisnt their own laws to do it and going against a state of their own union, Arizona, while they are at it. If we were any more of the “least among us” we would be invisable.

Kinetic1

Madeleine,
I have not been posting here long enough to know the positions of regular posters, so please don’t take this personally if it does not fit. That having been said, I am amazed by the duality on this site. One day the regulars are arguing that this is a Christian country that was based on the laws of the Bible, the next your are objecting to using the very words of the Bible to instruct our leaders. One day it’s only the Republican leaders with the moral compass that comes from a true Christian foundation that can lead us, the next those same men are among the “political leaders” who “have no business telling our Government what they should do or offering a plea on behalf of illegal immigrants”

Perhaps you did not intend to lump Rep. Lamar Smith in with the unelected religious leaders, but he was the one quoted. And it’s funny that you would mention school prayer since Rep. Smith has voted in favor of school prayer in the past. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want anyone’s religion setting the laws I must conform to, I just don’t see how you can have it both ways.

As to the “least among us.” Who are they in your mind? White people still make up the majority of this country, and despite the race of the President, they still control our government. Mexican workers work in triple digit heat for 12 hours a day picking the fruits and vegetables for our plates and do so for a meager wage. Americans may work hard, but they have the protections set forth by our government that regulate their working conditions (though business leaders often manage to weaken these rules) their pay and even how they will survive if they lose their job. American workers, when compared to the rest of the world live an exceptional life. We have far more and consume far more than most. Of course not all Americans live to the standards we consider to be basic. Many Americans live “below the poverty line”, but when compared to countries like Mexico, even our poverty line looks good.

I don’t approve of people coming to our country illegally and I agree that we need to address the concerns of the people of Arizona, as well as others. On the other hand, I see the value of these people, not only as workers but as human beings. Those who’s only crime is coming into our country to find work, work that American’s won’t do, deserve a system that allows them to help us and themselves. Those who come here to commit crimes against us do not deserve to be on our soil. For those who are among the first group, let’s work on a system that allows them to come here and work those jobs where they are needed. We can restrict them from taking jobs from American workers in the construction, service and other industries. We can also crack down on employers who knowingly hire illegal workers (thus encouraging illegal immigration) to save a buck. Once we have made it legal for the good people to come and work, then we can begin defending our boarders against those who would do us harm.

RPS

There is already a system in place for those wishing to come here from foriegn countries to work and not become citizens … its called a work VISA and it is good for a definate period of time and them must be renewed or the holder must return to their home country.
Kinetic1

Yes, there is a visa system, but no one seems to be willing to follow it. The employers need to follow the law if we expect the workers to. The government need to be tough and enforce these laws so that employers will respect them. When we stop allowing employers to ignore employment law and make it more expensive to break the law than to follow it, we will then be able to better enforce our immigration laws.
wayne a

i agree we need to enforce our immigration laws,we need to go after the employers and the illegals.but explain one thing,why won’t obama secure our borders?
eddie47d

Wayne: Obama is securing the border,there are plenty of agents in most areas and that has been documented. Illegals are down and those who do manage to sneak in are mostly drug runners. Sure we could build higher fences but they would build longer ladders. Now violent crime is up in some areas and that is what makes the headlines.Overall crime is down in the majority of areas.
JC

Wayne, Obama is not doing anything to secure the borders…not in any real sense. He is using the issue as a political chip in his bid for “immigration reform” that we don’t need. And if a few dozen or a few hundred Americans are kidnapped, killed or raped… what the hell?
It’s not as if they were Muslims so why should he care?
Jeep

Gosh, thanks ed. boy, I thought that illegal immigration was a problem. Thanks for pointing out that everything is fine. Okay everybody! Eddie says there is no problem, let’s find something else to discuss.
eyeswideopen

Wayne, why didn’t Bush secure the borders??? Because corporations wanted cheap labor, that’s why. Follow the greed machine and most of your questions will be answered. Why did the oil spill happen? Greed!! Why did the economy crash?? Greed!!! Why didn’t the repubs address immigration when they had control of house and senate for 11 years??? GREED!!!!! Welcome to the UNITED CORPORATIONS OF AMERICA run by the Republican Party….
eddie47d

JEEP, I never said every thing was fine you negative jerk.
GlennAz

Kenetic1.
With over 20 million illegals here already if they truly did only the hard labor there wouldn’t be enough fruit for everyone to pick. In 1973 metro center was built and I know at the time construction workers were earning $20 an hour. The illegals took over and today construction workers earn $10 or there about an hour. When the construction in Arizona cane almost to a dead stop the unemployment rate in this state didn’t change at all. You are talking thousands of jobs lost and no change in the unemployment rate. Yes the illegals take jobs americans don’t want because after they lower the pay it doesn’t pay americans a living wage. Would you want to stay at your job if in 1973 your pay was $20 an hour and today it paid $10 an hour, I don’t think so. Now that is only one occupation but there are too many to mention how many wages have been lowered because of these people but if you look around you can figure it out for yourself.
RPS

I also live in Arizona .. I say my neices and nephews unable to find part time jobs after school because they were all filled by illegal immigrants … how would you like to go into a McDonalds in your neighborhood and try to place your order only to have the cashier hand you a picture menu and point at all the pictures in an attempt to get you to show him what you wanted to order because the cashier did not speak english. A few years ago the Arizona republic printed an article saying that the illegal’s only take the jobs that we Americans won’t do … 2 weeks later they printed another aritcle about a Mexican national who came here illegally with his wife 30 years ago ….they then had 3 son’s . The man was a supervisor at a construction company making $50.00 an hour … oh my … now tell me which American construction worker would not want to earn $50.00 an hour.

People are compplaining about our new lat which simply gives local police the right to enforce federal laws that are already in place but the federal government does not have the manpower to inforce. Arizona is not the only state that has this law … SUPRISE … California and Virginia have quite simular laws and now voters in Nevada are saying they want it too. Think about this …if you live in a state that does not have a law in place giving your local police departments the right to enforce federal law …look out … some of the illegals that are leaving Arizona are going back to Mexico but most are moving to other states … YOUR STATE. I hope your teenagers or even your grandchildren will be able to find work in a couple years. Hell, I hope YOU will be able to find work in a couple years.
Mike Austin,TX

This is exactly what I have been saying all along. This prevents our young people with the opportunity to work in part time jobs, gain experience and understanding of a workplace. It is part of growing up.
Kinetic1

Again, look to the employers. McDonalds should not be hiring illegals. That construction company should not have hired an illegal. I worked in fast food restaurants and gas stations when I was a kid. I agree, it’s not a bad place for kids to learn about life.

I never said that these immigrant workers would not take jobs we do want, only that they are willing to do the jobs we won’t. So protect the jobs we want. Demand that the government make a list of the jobs that only legal citizens can hold and demand that the employers who do not follow legal guidelines be punished. An illegal worker can not hold a job unless the employer is willing to overlook their status. We have had programs like Reagan’s “guest worker program” that allowed for immigrants to do seasonal work in the fields, but employers found it cheeper not to follow the rules. If the employers don’t care about the law, why should the workers? The government needs to enforce these laws. If we make it easier to identify undocumented workers, then employers will have no excuses.
http://personalliberty rob

I’m sure that your senator “FLIP-FLOP McCain” has done his part for helping AZ for the past 10 years.(That’s sarcasm)..Now that he’s up for re-election, what’s his stance on “AMNESTY” today??? If he is re-elected, will he stand by and stick up for AZ and fight against “ILLEGAL” immigration…Don’t count on it….
DAWII

Hi RPS,
It is not that the Feds can’t allocate the manpower to secure our Border, they don’t want to. Obama is for open World borders. He is holding border security hostage for his Amnesty plan. Trouble is, if Amnesty is granted there isn’t and there will not be any border security or plan put in place.

We need E-Verify put in place permanently at the state and Federal levels ASAP. This would create a somewhat orderly self deportation of millions of illegals. It will not get rid of all of them, especially the criminals, but it will open up a lot of jobs for our unemployed.
As one writer said, there are plenty of Visas available “IF” we need the extra workers.

The important thing in my mind is to get as many of these people out of our Country as soon as possible. The next step would be to make “ENGLISH” our National Language. This is already called for in our founding documents. No one in politics observe them, so we need another law specifying this. No more press 2 for English. For those of you who use prescriptions and have a Kmart with a pharmacy in your area, they only have English on their recordings. You can boycott CVS and Walgreen’s until they remove their Spanish language voice mail.
our National language.
wayne a

i read an article last week that said rhode island is doing exactly the same thing that the law in arz. would do.wonder why obama hasn’t sued RI,could it be that its one state obama won in 2008 and one of the few states where he has over a 50% approval rating?
JC

Wayne, 4 or 5 states have enacted very similar laws. But Arizona is directly on the border…on the front line. So he wants their submission to Federal authority in the eyes of the public.
http://?? Joe H.

DawII,
YOU may be able to boycott CVS, but it is the only pharmacy our insurance will recognize! I filled two prescriptions today that would have cost me 200 dollars had I filled them off plan. that’s just two of seven I have to take. With insurance, it cost me 20 dollars!
Kinetic1

GlennAz,
Please note that I suggested that the system be designed to restrict workers to those jobs we felt they were needed for. I agree, the presence of immigrants has allowed employers to cut wages and increase profits. As a result, American workers have lost out. I want our government to take this under consideration when deciding what we will and will not allow. I want only legal, documented workers doing these jobs for many reasons and I want our employers to step up to bat and ensure that is what we are getting.

The point is, we have to decide what we, as Americans are willing to pay for. When Sam Walton was alive he was proud to offer American made products. Now WalMart is the place to go for cheap foreign made products and they grow and grow. If everyone in America is so concerned about American workers, why do they continue to buy from places like WalMart? I will look hard and pay more for a product made in America. I am also willing to pay a qualified craftsman to build, repair and paint my home, but I seem to be in the minority. Immigrant workers would not wait on the corner for work if people would not hire them. I’d rather pay a neighbor kid to cut my lawn (if I could find one who wanted to) but my landlord hires a service where 85% of the workers can’t speak english. I have no idea where they come from or if they are here legally. If you want to support American workers you have to be ready to pay for them. So what are you willing to pay?
barbm

i would love to be able to buy american made products, but it’s not that easy. i looked at cookies and candy last week at the store. they all said they were made by some american company and gave the address. because i know that hershey’s is now made in other countries, i knew that to be a lie. they were not marked as to where the candy was actually “manufactured.” we should require that info on all products sold in america. as for guest worker programs, we MUST have a provision that will prevent anchor babies. the women come here, get pregnant as quickly as possible, then have their child here. that allows the whole darn family to be here legally.
wayne a

no offense,but you’re damn right i would be willing to pay!in fact i took early retirement so i have a fleamarket booth.we’re 700-800 miles from the nearest border but on a sunday at the fleamarket,we are a minority! in fact a lot of the people in the area calls it little mexico.it would kill my business but if they’re illegal,they need to get the hell out!
Vippy

Here we go again. This country has been so brainwashed into thinking that we have it better than the rest of the industrialized nations. No, we don’t. I was shocked when I came here in 1966 having left a country that offered me a montly salary versus the hourly $ 1.00 at the time here with no benefits and no healthcare. Take away the 360 billionaires this country has and then figure out the measly average income of the rest of the country. No wonder, some people are waking up to the fact that our wages have been stagnant for 40 years. Yes they have! But then no other country spends to much on defense, more than the rest of the world combined while brainwashing the population that we are bringing democracies around the world.
Mike Austin,TX

You must be a liberal. Maybe you are not as qualified as you think. Although we have a similar standard of living, one of the highest, we don’t get skrewed nearly as much in taxes as the other industrial countries. It is a part of American culture that you rely on yourself and not the Gov’t. They are trying their best to make us dependant like the Europe but fortunately, we are waking up. The 360 billionaires you show disdain for is a result of being free to create wealth on your own and get rich from it. Good for them. Do you think we would have so many good ball players if they paid minimum wage and no chance to get rich from it? No…
Kinetic1

Ball Players? Really? Would we be in such a bad place if the quality of our sports heroes declined? I for one have had about enough of overpaid actors, ball players, Nascar drivers and other icons. $100 to sit in a ball park? The same for a seat in the theater (live, not movie, though movies are getting up there.) What about our teachers and nurses? Why is a good short stop more valuable?

If you want to point to those who have built businesses that help our economy by employing our people, great. Sports were better before we decided that our players were worth more than those who produce.
Jeep

Alright, Vippy…I’ll say it…if it’s so bad here, then please go home. And, if you do not like to hear it, then do not compare our great nation with your homeland. Your opinions are welcome, but I do not think your comments are very “American” in nature when couched in terms like yours.
JC

He does have a point though. We’re definatley manipulated, especially our economy.
Dallas E

OK ! How Do We Separate The Good Ones From The Bad Ones ??? CAN’T Be Done !!! If People Are Here Illegally, They Must Go Back To Their Own Country ! Example : Go Try To Sneek Into Canada, You Will Be Deported
Back To The U.S. No Matter Why You Tried To Imigrate There.
http://?? Joe H.

Dallas E,
Try to sneak into MEXICO like they do here! Jailed, deported or SHOT!!!!
chuck b

kinetic 1

you are a true bleeding heart liberal. you and barry have the same organizing skills. socialism at its best. nobody forced the mexican people to cross the border. if the ranchers hire them at a certain wage, they accepted it. do we have laws regarding the immigration into our country? yes and they broke the law. do they want to assimilate into our society? no, they want to move their culture here. are they interested in abiding by our laws? no, they want amnesty and so called citizenship handed to them. do they care about the history of our society and what it stands for? no. you state: “americans won’t do field labor” i’ll bet they will if you cut off their welfare checks!! this multiculture society will not work when each culture wants it their way and we are seeing the beginning of a collapse as bad as the economy. send these people back or give up the country,
eddie47d

Mr doomsday the sky is falling,blah,blah,blah. It’s already proven that Americans won’t do certain jobs and haven’t for 60 years in the produce business. Up to 90% of all crops are picked by immigrants in California. That the food you eat! It’s 60% in the rest of the nation. Most immigrants don’t adapt because they are temporary workers or they move around so much they don’t have a chance to get citizenship papers. You have to have a permanent address at the time of appling. Here’s a good project for you and I don’t know the answer. Reagan granted amnesty in the 80′s. Go find out how many of them are now legal citizens and how many are still working the fields and orchards. That ought to keep you out of mischief for awhile.
JC

They don’t get citizenship papers because they snuck in here in the first place. They don’t get papers because then they would have to pay taxes.
http://?? Joe H.

edduh,
I’m only 59 years old and I have picked tomatoes, asparagus, apples, grapes, peaches and pears. Don’t tell me that the illegals are the only ones that would do it for the last 60 years. I have also bailed hay, mowed lawns, painted houses, roofed and dug fence poles by hand.
eyeswideopen

JC, you are out of touch, they would not have to pay taxes, as the wages are so low, it qualifies as poverty. Farm workers aren’t making 10.00 an hour silly boy. They are branching out into the construction trades, but they still aren’t making a high salary, and you can thank all those republican owned construction companies who illegally give them jobs.
http://jerrymestes@comcast.net Jerry

My sentiments exactly. Deport them, don’t reward them, and make them take their gang banger punk kids with them! Our neighborhoods and schools would actually be safe again.
marvin

Kinetic1 remember what jesus said render unto cezar that witch is cezars and unto god that witch is gods,cezar is the goverment right,and the immigration laws are from cezar[fed goverment]now cezar wants the help of the church to give amnesty to 20 million law breakers that they have [cezar]said by their own laws are criminal, so think befor jumping to the defence of cezar for he is fickled and will not do as they want you to do obay the laws ,reason cezar wants amnesty for power and votes
Shannon

Marvin,

What the heck? First of all, learn how to spell invest in a dictionary! Second of all, the Lord did say, “give to Ceasar, what is Ceasar’s,” he was referring to taxes you moron, not immigration! Also, this is how you spell “which” it is not spelled “witch!” How’s that liberal democratic education working out for ya?
http://?? Joe H.

Shannon,
If you are going to correct peoples spelling, make sure you are without fault and learn punctuation! there needs to be a comma between spell and invest in your first sentence!
Shannon

Marvin,

I apologize for my comment, that was mean and uncalled for. I could not really figure out what you were talking about, but I reread your comment and realized you are absolutely right! Please forgive me, I can be a butthead sometimes, especially when it comes to more of my money going to support more people; in other words, more government entitlements to help the future new citizens of America!
Ellen

Shannon: I do my best not to rail against those who cannot spell or form coherent sentences because I know that most of them are the products of our public fool indoctrination system. I think it started in earnest after I was in grade school; I watched kids younger than me receiving pretty crappy “education”.

HOWEVER, I think that part of being responsible is to use a dictionary and attempt to communicate more effectively. Some posts are so bad that I just refuse to try to decipher them. It is criminal what has happened to our ability to communicate in this country. Most computers have spell checkers and I notice that when I am typing such posts, my mis-keyings are highlighted.

I’m just sayin’…….
wayne a

SHANNON,congratulations i think you’re the 1st person to admit they’re wrong on one of these sites in the 6 months i’ve been commenting. i’m not being derogatory.lol
DENNIS

YOUR IGNORANCE IS BEYOND HOPE. THESE PEOPLE DON’T COME HERE “JUST TO FIND WORK”. THEY COME HERE TO STEAL OUR HEALTH CARE, STEAL OUR JOBS, LOWERING OUR SALARIES AND STANDARD OF LIVING IN THE PROCESS, SELL DRUGS, TO KILL AND RAPE, CLOG OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEMS, AND OVERLOAD OUR PRISONS, ALL THE WHILE SENDING MONEY BACK HOME. IF THEY HAD TO STAY IN MEXICO, MAYBE THEY WOULD STAY THERE AND SPEND ALL THEIR TIME AND ENERGY FIXING THEIR OWN COUNTRY. THAT POOR EXCUSE OF A PRESIDENT IN THE WHITE HOUSE SHOULD SPEND SOME OF THAT STIMULUS MONEY TO LET “AMERICANS” BUILD THE SHOVEL READY PROJECT CALLED A BORDER FENCE. PRES BUSH GOT IT APPROVED, OBAMA AND CONGRESS JUST NEED TO APPROPRIATE THE MONEY,,, AND THEY STILL HAVE HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS IN A SLUSH FUND JUST SITTING THERE,,,,
eddie47d

Get over your killing and rape crap. Your about as Christian as Charles Manson and a few other loosers.
Anita

Yes some of the immigrants are involved in crimes and should be deported. In Madison, WI there are Latino Gangs. So did they come here to “work”? I don’t think so!!!!
JC

Oh so they DON’T Kill and Rape.
Thanks for clearing that up. So, since they are 100% innocent,
who’s doing it then?
You really are a complete mouthpiece without a shred of morality or decency. YOU need to be deported right along with them.
Al Sieber

eddie47d, your a damn liar,or just plain ignorant. theres major crime going on every day out here by illegal aliens. get your head out of your a$$.
dmp says :

Kinetic1

YOUR IDEAS ARE FULL OF ENERGY LEFT AND RIGHT. YOU CRITICIZED MADELENE, AS YOU SAID, USING DUALITY IN HER COMMENT. BUT I NOTICED YOUR COMMENTS ARE FULL OF MORE THAN DUALITIES, THEY ARE EVEN MORE THAN TRIPLELITIES. YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF ALLOWING THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TO WORK IN THE USA, IF THEY DON’T COMMIT CRIMES AND DO THE WORKS THAT AMERICANS DO NOT WANT TO DO. THEN YOU ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THOSE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WHO COMMIT CRIMES..DO YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE ILLEGAL, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO WORK HERE IN THE USA? DON’T YOU KNOW THAT THE WELFARE RECIPIENTS ARE LIVING LIKE KINGS AND QUEENS HERE? THEY ARE THE ROYAL FAMILIES HERE WHO DOES NOT PAY ANY TAXES.THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE WHY AMERICA IS GETTING BANKRUPT. MAN YOU ARE BLIND OR NOT USING YOUR NOISE VERY WELL. THE SOLUTION TO ILLEGALS IS DEPORTATIONS ALL OF THEM. THEY HAVE TO START FROM THE SCRATCH. THEY SHOULD APPLY FOR IMMIGRANTS LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. WE CAN NOT LEGALIZE THE ILLEGALS. NO AMNESTIES. AMERICAN CAN NOT BREAK OUR OWN LAWS TO ACCOMMODATE ILLEGALS. USING BIBLE PASSAGES IS NOT BAD, BECAUSE WE ARE DEALING WITH TRUTH…BUT TO USE THE BIBLE TO JUSTIFY LIES IS NOT RIGHT. SO, MY FRIEND, LET US USE OUR ” KINETIC ” ENERGIES FOR THE GOOD OF OUR COUNTRY AND ITS CITIZENS, WHO LOVE THIS COUNTRY WITH ALL OUR HEARTS.
Jeep

I would just like to remind you all that we call them “illegal” immigrants (I prefer aliens) because they have already committed a crime by crossing into this country illegally. Thanks!
JC

Ditto.
http://?? Joe H.

Jeep,
I prefer just plain illegals!!!
wayne a

KINETIC1,you’re using alot of myths to promote your position.first,two months ago the LA Times published an article that after conducting their research and polling,only 2% of the illegals actually work out in the fields!your other myth that the illegals do jobs Americans won’t do is bogus too.with the economy the way it is many people are desperate enough to take almost anything they can get.let’s see,take an illegal,pay him 4.00 per hr.,he pays no taxes,gets free hospitalization,gets free use of the er’s,even for petty illnesses because they can;t be refused,free schooling,free gov.subsidized housing,welfare,foodstamps,wick……now with all these benefits it’s worth 35.00 per hr! watch our unemployed citizens line up if they could get a deal like that!
eddie47d

Wayne Go out and become a fruit picker if you so enthralled with their jobs or do you prefer cucumbers. I also read that 90% of all those who work in the fields in California are legal and illegal immigrants. If they leave you’ll have multiple choices.
Jeep

Let me add this up…90% are either “legal” or “illegal”. What are the other 10%…dead? Too funny!
JC

Tell you what, eduardo…I’ll go out and become a fruit picker right after you go out and become and American.
eddie47d

JEEP Do I have to explain everything to you> The other 10% are people in the local community. Probably a couple a American willing to do a days work.
http://jerrymestes@comcast.net Jerry

Wayne, none of it is free, you and every Legal U.S. Citizen is footing the bills of these illegal’s and I for 1 am sick and tired of it. But remember Obama needs their votes because this Teamster and his Teacher Wife are voting for anyone that will deport all illegal aliens and not reward them as Obama and the Dummycrats want to do.
eddie47d

Kinetic 1 great post and a relief from the fear mongering I’ve heard over the last few months.
dan burke

i don’t know where you work, but i and many WHITE americans work in construction. i am a roofer and i work in triple digit heat all day long. this country already has a system for the people coming into our country, it’s called a GREEN CARD.
http://?? Joe H.

dan burke,
I worked the upper level screens in a steel shot manufacturer. The dryer ovens were right below us and they dried at 1200*. the upper levels were about 115* and almost 80% humidity. you could only work up there about 45 minutes at a time and you were about to drop. this was in Michigan and the temp in there only dropped about 10* during the coldest days of the winter!

Juanita

Madeleine: I totally agree with you!! Personally,for those in Washington DC, to use the Word of God in an attempt to justify their actions is unacceptable. I have other thoughts, but will not go into them.
RPS

Madeleine, you are correct on at least one point … our children are not allowed to pray in our schools, weither they be Morman, Baptist, Jewish, Catholic and the list goes on, but guess what Muslim children ARE allowed to pray in our schools. Where is the equality in that? If prayer is not allowed in our schools then NO PRAYER IS ALLOWED IN OUR SCHOOLS.

Kinetic1

RPS,
Where are the schools with this double standard? Muslim children allowed to pray in school? Not in any school my kids attend.
JC

Oh no…you’ve reproduced…

Mike

Madeleine, you really really do need to read the Constitution. You will not find any words that read “separation of church and state”. There are those in and out of government that would have you and me and everyone else believe that those words exist. Check it out.

Craig

Yes but the intent of the 1st amendment was exactly that, to separate church and state. The founders even said this was their intent. Freedom of religion as well as freedom from religion.
marvin

Craig only thing i read is the goverment shell not tell you what religion to be ,the goverment shell not astablish religion, as for seperation of church and state,the word seperation is not in the constitution,the seperation of church and state came from a letter jefferson wrote to the babtist
Average Joe

Sometimes one must look beyond the document and into the framers original intent, such as Thomas Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists.
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danbury.html
http://?? Joe H.

Average Joe,
This may be true, but Jefferson was only ONE man among many that framed our constitution!!!
eyeswideopen

JoeH, you have obviously forgotten that our founding fathers left England due to religious persecution!!! Their goal was to insure that the new government could not dictate what religion beliefs would be mandated to the population. If they wanted this to be a Christian nation, they would have specified that in the Constitution. Do you see the name Christ anywhere in it?? Why do you right wingers continually try and rewrite history??

Mike

The founding fathers stated government should stay out of the church, but nowhere did the fathers state that God should stay out of government. Again, check it out for yourself.

Craig

God is a myth, fool.
marvin

Craig,, you better hope your wrong, i have saw people that like you on their death bed ask god for help,must be fire insurance
Jeep

Craig, so nasty. Or, is it that you just have no respect for the belief of others? The First Amendment covers your rights, as well as the rights of every other American, pro or con.
Anita

Craig You are the fool!!!Remember when you are on your death bed- don’t say “Oh God” He will not hear you.
eyeswideopen

Anita, how do you have the gaul to interpret how God will judge someone?? You haven’t figured out that it is not up to you or anyone else to judge others, that right is reserved for God. Do you even know what the word redemption means??
Michael J.

EWO,
Don’t you think that’s a little harsh? I think Anita is correct. If you disavow God till your dying breath, he may not hear you.
As far as being judged by others goes, I thought that right was reserved for Obama these days.
And ya, I know what redemption means, that’s what happens when you hand your food stamps to the clerk at the Walmart.
JC

What’s your point?
Always right

Craig is amusing. He thinks that everything was created from nothing by nobody by random chance. Now THAT is FAITH!!!! Hey Craig, if God didn’t do it, explain how it happened (this should be hysterical!!!)

Heidi Vogtman

I am curious whether any of them mentioned the horrific situation in which human beings are placed as human trafficers use our open boarders to kidnap and enslave people. There are so many reasons for securing our boarders and allowing the process of immigration to occur legally.

http://google Leonard W Giddens Jr.

Another good reason not to have these so called religious leaders have any input in what this government, or any other for that matter,in policy making. If they had thier way, people would be sleeping on top of one and then the other, and starving to death while they pray and tell you God will provide. You can set back and pay attention to these folk if you want. When you can not find a job to provide for you and you family, the only thing the do gooders will offer you is prayer. They will continue bot have what they need because you help provide it for them.

ChuckL

Sorry Leonard, but you need to take a remedial course in the colonization of America and the founding of the United States, with emphasis on how the Constitution was written. You will find that God was very much considered in the whole process. You can start with the Declaration of Independence which lists the inalienable rights granted to each of us by our creator (aka: GOD)

If you research the history of care of the indigent and those with needs, you will find that until the government took over and crowded the churches out, welfare worked much better than it does now, was not a tax problem, did not create a dependency on government, and usually resulted in the recipient obtaining a new job.

The problems that we now have were created directly by government intervention in what should be a NON-GOVERNMENT problem. I will grant that originally the idea may have been good hearted, but it has become a means to get re-elected by unscrupulous politicians, mostly Democrats, or Progressives masquerading as Democrats.

Welfare is not a government duty. It is not authorized by the Constitution. It is used by governments to create dependency. And don’t try to use the “Welfare” clause in Constitution as your justification. That clause also includes the adjective “general” immediately befoe “Welfare”. The meaning of “general” in this usage is “non-specific”. Therefore any specific welfare, including my and other’s, Social (IN)Security is not Constitutional. It could however, be completely replaced with a real Personal Retirement Account, owned by the recipient without any harm to those now dependent upon it in approximately 25 years.

The current system could be transferred to the states, who do have a constitutional authority for welfare.

John Naples

To emigrate illegally is the whole point. Those coming over the border, especially from Mexico, are not interested in doing it legally. What most people currently participating in this debate are missing is that Mexico in particular has an interest, on a deep cultural level, in the American southwest which they feel needs to be reclaimed, or “reconquered”. The plan is to get as many, particularly Mexican, aliens here and when there is a very significant majority, re-claim the land by whatever means is possible….and it won’t be pretty.

Immigration Debate Reveals Philosophical Gap In Congress

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