Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ 

The Debate Over Illegal Immigration Gets Even Crazier

June 4, 2010 by  

The Debate Over Illegal Immigration Gets Even Crazier

Remember the expression, to swallow a camel but choke on a gnat?

That’s how I feel about the reaction of several people who commented on what I recently wrote about illegal immigration. The first column was called Arizona, Si! Obama, No! You can click here read it. The second ran a week later and was titled Anchor Babies and the Illegal 14th. If you missed it, click here to read that one.

The three most important points I made in those two successive columns were:

  1. The Federal government has refused to protect us from an illegal invasion. Because of this failure by our national government, Arizona had a responsibility to its citizens to act.
  2. Of all the crazy aspects of this situation, the most insane is our policy of granting immediate and automatic citizenship to any child born in this country—even if both parents were illegal immigrants.
  3. The justification for this absurd policy—and many others that have allowed the Federal government to expand dramatically and dangerously—is the 14th Amendment. My research has convinced me that this amendment was never legally ratified.

Now those are some pretty big issues, wouldn’t you say? We’re talking about a president who flatly refuses to enforce the law. About an absurd policy that creates instant citizens of the offspring of illegal immigrants. And about a conspiracy—there’s no other word for it—to twist and distort our most important legal document, so it can be used to enslave us.

I thought that most people who read those columns would respond to one of these truly momentous points. I anticipated receiving some interesting, intelligent and well-informed arguments—some agreeing with me, some not.

And while there were many comments that fit that description, there were a surprising number that did not. One of the most mind-numbing replies I’ve ever received to anything I’ve written for Personal Liberty Alerts came from a David Warheit, who argued:

“Has the legality of the 14th Amendment ever been ruled upon by the U.S. Supreme Court? Of course it has, in hundreds if not thousands of cases. Every single case decided by the Supreme Court which cites the 14th Amendment serves as a ratification of its legality.”

How do you like that for circular reasoning? Because the Supreme Court cites an illegal amendment to justify even more unconstitutional encroachments by the Federal government, why of course that means I’m wrong, doesn’t it?

In my United States history courses I was taught that our justice system was one of the most unique in history because both sides to an issue got to present their best arguments in open court. They were encouraged to cite all of the evidence they could find, with the very best witnesses they could subpoena, before an impartial jury or judge rendered a verdict.

But according to Mr. Warheit, we don’t need any of that. Forget any evidence; ignore any arguments. Why, if the Court cites the amendment in a ruling, then it must be legal, proper, and oh-so constitutional. Sounds like an argument by the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, doesn’t it?

But the absurdities surrounding this issue don’t stop here. We also have the incredible spectacle of the most powerful lawyer in the land, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, vowing to use the full resources of his department to get the Arizona law declared unconstitutional—while at the very same time admitting, in sworn testimony before Congress, that he hasn’t even read the law!

That startling admission came during testimony before the House Judiciary Committee. Rep. Ted Poe (R-Texas) offered to loan the AG his own copy of the Arizona law. After all, as he noted, “It’s only 10 pages long—a lot shorter than the healthcare bill.” There’s still no word on whether the country’s top lawyer has read the bill he so vociferously opposes.

Meanwhile, ABC News reported that State Department officials engaged in talks on human rights abuses apologized for Arizona’s tough new anti-illegal immigration law—to the communist Chinese! Yes, you read that right. Continuing President Obama’s policy of apologizing to every tinhorn despot and Marxist dictator anywhere for his country’s “failings,” your country has now officially apologized to the leaders of one of the least free nations on earth for the actions of a state that is only trying to enforce the law.

Adding insult to injury, the administration then arranged to have their dear friend Felipe Calderon, the left-wing president of Mexico, address a joint session of Congress. To no one’s surprise, the Mexican president—whose own country has some of the harshest anti-immigration laws in the world—condemned the actions of the governor and state legislature of Arizona for trying to curb the flood of illegal immigrants pouring into their state from… Mexico.

Insulting as Calderon’s performance was, there were two that were worse. I’m referring to the two most powerful Democrats in Congress—House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.)—who both leapt to their feet and applauded like mad when his diatribe was done.

I have to tell you, I can’t remember a week in which I have been more disgusted with my country’s leaders.

So in the midst of all of this, I was delighted to get a call from an old friend who asked me if I would do a telephone interview with a guy in Phoenix who had the media in a dither because of a T-shirt he wore to a basketball game. Here’s the story.

Do you remember when Robert Sarver, the owner of the Phoenix Suns, announced that the team’s uniform would be changed temporarily from the Suns to “Los Suns?” Since Sarver had previously marched with Al Sharpton and other leftist agitators in opposition to Arizona’s new anti-illegal immigration legislation, he left no doubt what he meant by the change.

The media loved it. Heck, even President Obama gave a shout-out to the new jerseys during a press conference in the Rose Garden.

This was too much for one fan. Jim Clark promptly had some T-shirts made (in the same bright orange of the Suns’ jerseys) that said “Viva los 1070”—the number of the legislation that was causing all the uproar. He and a buddy wore them to that night’s game.

Turns out Jim’s seats were in the front row, right behind the bench of the San Antonio Spurs. So every time TNT, which was broadcasting the game nationally, scanned the bench, Jim and his buddy (and their T-shirts) were on national TV. Same thing when the jumbotron in the stadium showed the Spur’s bench.

This was too much for some wuss in the Suns’ organization. Before too long a couple of burly security agents showed up. First they asked Jim and his friend to remove their shirts. They refused. Then they asked them to turn them inside out. Again, they said no.

It turns out their third choice was to be tossed out of the game. When ordered to leave, they complied. But once outside the stadium, they asked to speak with someone with more authority. After much back and forth and some private phone calls, Jim and his friends were allowed to re-enter the stadium. The crowd around them applauded enthusiastically when they took their seats—proudly wearing their “Viva los 1070” shirts.

So there the story ends, right? Not on your life. Jim and his shirt became a cause célèbre in the local media. He was interviewed on several local talk shows and TV programs. Then Fox News picked up the story nationally. Glenn Beck talked about it on his program. Jim was asked to be a guest (by phone) on radio shows as far away as Portland, Ore., and Minneapolis.

And this being America, orders for that T-shirt started pouring into Phoenix. Jim responded as would any good entrepreneur—he created a website. Now you too can go to http://www.vivalos1070.com and support Arizona by wearing your own personal “Viva los 1070” T-shirt.

So here’s to one patriot who isn’t afraid to stand up proudly for his beliefs. Or, in this case, to sit quietly behind the bench of his favorite basketball team and let his T-shirt do the talking.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

—Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “The Debate Over Illegal Immigration Gets Even Crazier”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • Mick for thought

    A good but heavily one sided article about an important issue that I hope will get addressed more seriously by by both the legislative and executive branches of our government.

    Kind of concerned about the emphasis of the last portion of this article. Leaders and merchants never let a good crisis go to waste. Amazing how may T-shirt vendors have made money over the years. Entrepreneur or opportunist?

    • Claire

      Mick for thought–Opportunist-make money while you can and with anything imaginable.

      • Mick for thought

        Yes anything. I am waiting for oil on dead birds from the left wing T-shirt vendors next.

    • Barb

      Mick, Don’t hold your breath waiting for the government to address this thing seriously or intelligently, EVER! You can die holding your breath that long! Especially with the liberals in charge!

      • Mick for thought

        What scares me is if you get a position as a representative. I have seen you agree with smart people but never saw a smart comment from you.

  • airangel

    Way to go Jim Clark with your Patriotic t-shirts!

    Boo Phoenix Suns for denouncing your Patriotism as an American Team!

    Israel please teach our Homeland Security how to enforce and secure America’s borders!

    Obama step-up as Chief in Commander! Quit partying with your rich friends like Beatles Pauly – there are quite a few crisis going on and it’s your job to act like a leader..if you wanted to hub nub with celebrities and run in those circles, you should have never applied for your job! These wonderful celebs are going to lauch a new Mexican movie right before elections to win votes…DON’T SUPPORT THIS MOVIE! Don’t see it, don’t buy tickets and most of all Don’t believe it! We already know they support the illegals because they live in their mansions and don’t deal with the everyday crime that the border citizens deal with!

    Go Jan Brewer, she med with Obama finally however did not get much in the way of answers like when the fence was going to start getting built but at least for now, she wasn’t threatened with a lawsuit from Obama…

    • http://personalliberty PFFFF

      A police state is not freedom rather a prison itself.

      • airangel

        Well would you rather be broke? The more illegals coming through, the more tax burden to all working Americans to cover all the Government freebies for them…it has to stop NOW, not later

      • Dave

        Not to mention Israels border is a hell of a lot smaller then ours and their wall doesn’t even cover the whole thing? Who would pay for that? Who would pay to maintain it? You all keep saying it’s costing us money because they don’t pay taxes but if they become citizens we can make sure they are paying taxes.

      • airangel

        The wall was already approved and the cost would have been far cheaper than the years of illegals coming in…taxing the education, peace, medical establishments, 3rd world diseases, etc…the wall/border would insure proper entry, medical checks and documentation such as passport or work permits. It would also eliminate the human traffic smuggling…the cost currently year after year for their Title 1 education, medical expenses, trash clean up, law enforcement for the gangs and prisoners, not too mention the cost of the 26% in prisons, lunch programs, housing assitance…all the extra staffing for schoold, public safety, etc…is costing a heck of a lot more than the 50 billion dollar wall to bring the wave of illegals to a trickle…not to mention the threat to National Security…safety is “priceless”!

      • http://aol wayne a

        dave,can’t you take a hint,nobody agrees with you!first all they have to do to protect our borders is to mine it,cheap easy fix! recently newsweek had a article that stated 58% of the illegals are on some kind of welfare,have a anchor baby that gets even larger!so how is it going to pay to make all these illegal leaches legal when 58% plus are on welfare not paying a damn thing anyway.get your head out of your @#$ !

    • Claire

      Obama is not going to threaten her with a lawsuit. He has to think about his image. It would not be feasible for him to do such a stupid thing, but then again, who knows?

      • http://aol wayne a

        obama hasn’t cared about what the polls show or what the majority wants so why would his image be any different?

      • Claire

        wayne a– I think Obama knows what his poll numbers are, and what a lot of Americans think and say about him. I really do not think he wants to add more fuel to the fire. I do not think he will bring about a lawsuit, if he does, it would not be feasible.

  • Special K (NJ)

    Some things defy understanding
    Some folks can’t see forests for trees:
    It’s not good national policy
    To permit illegals to enter with ease.

    No matter how it’s sliced
    Such thinking is … well, so much baloney.
    We should work harder to stop illegal entry
    And make hiring illegal entrants a fel.on.y.

    As to the disposition of the millions already here
    Residing without formal permission
    Let’s invite them to come forward for identification and registration
    Under the aegis of an apolitical immigration commission

    To be issued “temporary residence” permits
    For a variable period, e.g., 2, 3 or 4 years,
    After which they’ll be expected to return to their homeland
    Free of sundry illegal-residency-imposed fears.

    Those who don’t comply with the invitation
    When ultimately apprehended for lack of proper ID
    Will be subject to immediate incarceration and deportation,
    Along lines of legislation passed in the State of AZ.

    These provisions will be accompanied by another
    That imposes very severe sanctions on employing entities
    That include illegal immigrants, their heirs and/or assigns
    On their respective rosters of employees.

    And to meet requirements for labor
    That can’t be met by the local talent pool
    Cohorts of erstwhile illegals and other foreigners
    Could be hired–for rotation according to rule.

    If instituted, rules such as those outlined, above,
    Assuming they’re properly enforced nationally,
    Would go a long way toward removing the burden
    That has been placed on the shoulders of folks in AZ.

    But under the “leadership” of Barack H. Obama–
    At least until a new Congress arrives in DC–
    Anything resembling such common-sense rules
    On his “not to do list” will continue to be.

    Comments on BHO’s attitudes and ambitions
    Could be made more or less continuously–
    But to no effect except for venting of spleen
    That any interested observer might see.

    • Save America Susie

      SK, Clever poem!

    • bp

      Special K;
      Clever. However, we MUST send all illegal aliens BACK to stem the tide of the new ones, or they will never stop coming! We must build a fence (with razor wire and electricity) just like prison perimeters.

  • http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/29/60minutes/main2625305.shtml cemott3rd

    I’m not sure how I feel about the AZ law as I too have not read it, but I have to wonder why this wasn’t a hot topic back almost 25 years ago in ’86 when they passed the last major immirgration law. Under Reagan if they had just inforced the penalty for hiring illegals, that alone would have probably ‘nipped it in the bud’, but now -25 years and millions of illegal and undocumented immigrants later- it is really too late!

    • David

      It wasn’t such a hot topic because the Federal Government just didn’t see the need to enforce it. GEEEEEE sound familiar. The Good State of Arizona finally got sick and tired of getting run over by illegal immigrants and decided to make thier own law which is basically the same as the Federal law except that they made it a state law so they could enforce it themselves and obama didn’t like that because he has other plans. More Change.

      • http://aol wayne a

        david,nothing was done 20 some yrs ago because it wasn’t that big of a problem outside of the border states so it didn’t get the polt. attention.i live 600 miles from the border,10 yrs ago i never heard or seen a hispanic,especially speaking spanish. now i can’t go nowhere not even for 5 min. without seeing and hearing them speak spanish!i have a fleamarket booth and on sundays its 65-70% mex,some people have nicknamed it little mexico.thats 600 miles from the border!

  • Save America Susie

    Chip. I have a copy of The U.S. Constitution in my hands right now, and it states that the 14th amendment WAS RATIFIED on:

    July 9, 1868.

    This is coming from “The Center for Teaching the Constitution”. I don’t know really where you got that info that it was not ratified. That is a pretty shocking statement. Can you tell us why you came to that conclusion?

    • JeffH

      Save America Susie, http://www.civil-liberties.com/cases/14con.html
      THE 14TH AMENDMENT – EQUAL PROTECTION LAW OR TOOL OF USURPATION

      Congressional Record — House June 13, 1967 H7161
      Mr. Rarick…the 14th Amendment–whether ratified or not–was but the expression of emotional outpouring of public sentiment following the War Between Our States. Its obvious purpose and intent was but to free human beings from ownership as a chattel by other humans. Its aim was no more than to free the slaves.

      As our politically appointed Federal judiciary proceeds down their chosen path of chaotic departure from the peoples’ government by substituting their personal law rationalized under the 14th Amendment, their actions and verbiage brand them and their team as secessionists–rebels with pens instead of guns–seeking to destroy our Union.

      Whereas the purported 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution was never lawfully adopted in accordance with the requirements of the United States Constitution because eleven states of the Union were deprived of their equal suffrage in the Senate in violation of Article V, when eleven southern states, including Louisiana, were excluded from deliberation and decision in the adoption of the Joint Resolution proposing said 14th Amendment; said Resolution was not presented to the President of the United States in order that the same should take effect, as required by Article I, Section 7;

      Whereas the Reconstruction Acts of Congress unlawfully overthrew their existing governments, removed their lawfully constituted legislatures by military force and replaced them with rump legislatures which carried out military orders and pretended to ratify the 14th Amendment; and,

      Whereas in spite of the fact that the Secretary of State in his first proclamation, of July 20, 1868, expressed doubt as to whether three fourths of the required states had ratified the 14th Amendment, Congress nevertheless adopted a resolution on July 28, 1868, unlawfully declaring that three fourths of the states had ratified the 14th Amendment and directed the Secretary of State to so proclaim, said Joint Resolution of Congress and the resulting proclamation of the Secretary of State included the purported ratifications of the military enforced rump legislatures of ten southern states whose lawful legislatures had previously rejected the said 14th Amendment, and also included purported ratifications by the legislatures of the States of Ohio, and New Jersey although they had withdrawn their legislative ratifications several months previously, all of which proves absolutely that said 14th Amendment was not adopted in accordance with the mandatory constitutional requirements set forth in Article V of the Constitution and therefore the Constitution strikes with nullity the purported 14th Amendment.

      • Save America Susie

        JeffH, Interesting what I read here….I do understand why Am. 14 was written though…& this site MAY have a valid argument for Amendment 14 not being legal; HOWEVER…. didn’t the South GIVE UP its RIGHTS to the former officials votes when it committed TREASON by SUCCEEDING from the UNION & setting up a ANOTHER government? Couldn’t that be WHY the other new voters were substituted for them? The South had pulled away, and thus disavowed their governmental positions. They were then NULL AND VOID. I wouldn’t trust anyone who did that to then cast a legal vote. They would have needed new officials to cast the votes instead. I understand they were appointed, but perhaps it was a special circumstance due to the chaos of Civil War. Even if the President disapproves of a bill, the Congress can then act. This is all new to me. It is the first time I ever heard of that event in 1967–which was just an argument against it, not a ruling. I am saying the original officials in the SOUTH LOST their right to take up their old posts by reason of TREASON when they SUCCEEDED.

        However, if it still remains an issue–despite Supreme Court rulings to say it IS VALID–Are you saying, JeffH, we should have it voted on now TODAY by the 2/3rds states approval? How do you think that would go? Just wondering….

      • JeffH

        Save America Susie, I certainly believe it should be re-visited and clarified…It was supposedly ratified in 1868 yet the civil war was over in 1865…There were two major issues to be resolved once the Confederacy had been defeated:

        1) Were the rebel States still a part of the United States?

        2) Was the president or the Congress responsible for Reconstruction?

        Former President Lincoln had always claimed that these eleven states had never left the Union. In 1862 he had appointed provisional governors in Louisiana, North Carolina and Tennessee. As early as December 8, 1863, he had already announced a plan of Reconstruction:

        1) Amnesty to all Southerners who would take an oath of loyalty

        2) Recognition of state governments where 10% of the pre-war electorate took the oath and renounced slavery.

        Louisiana and Arkansas took these steps in 1864, but Congress refused to let their representatives sit in the House. President Johnson adopted Lincoln’s plan and recognized the loyal governments in Arkansas, Louisiana, Tennessee and Virginia, which Lincoln had set up. By December of 1865, every Confederate State except Texas had taken the steps. Texas conformed on April 6, 1866 and on December 6, President Johnson announced to Congress that the Union was restored.

        Congress, however, refused to endorse what Johnson had done. A joint committee of six senators and nine representatives was formed instead to oversee the management of the former Confederacy. The committee considered the confederate states to be “conquered provinces” and they were effectively put under the trusteeship of Congress.

        On December 18th, the 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, was ratified by 27 states and formally proclaimed. However, a New Freedmen’s Bureau had to be set up on Feb. 19, 1866 in order to protect freed slaves from the harsh “Black Codes” being enacted in some states. These Black Codes effectively tied the freed slaves to the land, on which they lived and worked.

        The Joint Committee then formulated the 14th Amendment to the Constitution in order to get around the apparent unconstitutionality of the Civil Rights Bill. It passed Congress on the 13th of June and was submitted to the states for ratification. The Amendment defined American citizenship and included Afro-Americans. It provided Federal protection to freedmen whose rights could not now be limited by state governments. Ratification was denied by most of the southern states but was made a requirement for readmission into the Union.

        Meanwhile, Radicals in the Congress were consistently overriding Johnson’s vetoes and placed some important limitations on his Executive power. Johnson was prevented from naming judges to the Supreme Court and deprived of being the “Commander in Chief” of the armed forces. The Covode Resolution of February 24, 1868 passed in the House by a vote of 126-47 and called for the impeachment of the President. The charges included alleged violations of the Tenure of Office Act, the Command of the Army Act and with bringing disgrace upon Congress. The impeachment vote, however did not arrive at the required two thirds majority.

        The Supreme Court played a huge role in determining the legality and constitutionality of many of the laws that were passed during Reconstruction. The court decided that it was unconstitutional to set up martial law where civil courts were in operation. In Texas vs. White, 1869, the court upheld Lincoln’s position that the Union was indivisible and indissoluble. The court also decided that the loyalty oaths were wrong and invalidated them.
        http://www.essortment.com/all/civilwarrecons_rmpc.htm

      • Save America Susie

        JeffH, I will certainly check the link out. HOWEVER, the fact remains that the South DID voluntarily LEAVE the union, & had cut ties with her, and even set up its own government and elected a PRESIDENT. That says a lot.

    • DaveH

      Susie,
      Here is another point of view:
      http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=282

      • Save America Susie

        Thanks DaveH,, I will check it out, just like the other one Jeff sent me. I’ve just never heard of this before.

    • http://aol wayne a

      american liberal,there was an article recently on this very site that showed what states never ratified the 14th,and because not enough of the states offically ratified it,it wasn’t legal.

  • David

    I couldn’t agree more with your article. God Bless the USA and to hell with it’s so called leaders. Leaders enforce the laws, so what do you call Obama and US Attorney General Eric Holder? But what can I say. This is the worst administration that I have seen in my 57 years on this earth. The so called leaders were sworn into office taking an Oath to Serve and Protect it’s People meaning its Citizens and not illegal immigrants. As far as I am concerened and I am a Citizen born in the USA, if you are a Leader you Serve and Protect, anything else and you are not following the Constitution. What’s that say about our so called leaders? But be careful what you say in this Free Country because from what I understand it’s ok with some people in this country to Fly the American Flag upside down beneath the Mexican flag in total disgrace and break our laws but don’t you dare stand up for the Constitution and the laws that are already on the books. What A CROCK. Where the hell are our REAL LEADERS. I see nothing but the Destruction of our Constitution. How do you like the HOPE AND CHANGE?

    • Mary

      Change…there is, but Hope is gone!

      • Claire

        Mary–Hope is gone? Not for me, I will keep plugging away. I will never give up. Americans MUST show the current and future governments a thing or two. We must let them know we will not tolerate any more political game-playing. WE must be the ones in charge. We are paying their salaries to conduct an orderly and honest government. And they are not doing this, none of them have conducted an honest and orderly government. Face it, we are in for the fight of our lives.

    • Claire

      David— I don’t believe we have had any real leaders for decades. Hope and change will not work since America is in such a shambles and has been for years. It took years to get into this mess and years to get out, if ever.

      • DaveH

        This is inevitable, Claire, if we expect Government to do all. If we can’t make the effort to do what is necessary to live a decent life, how can we expect any stranger to make that effort for us? So, the leaders are doomed to failure. We need to get back to the Limited Government that our Founders knew to be the best solution.

      • Claire

        DaveH–I do not expect the government to do it all. I expect governement to be honest and trustworthy, regardless of party. I can and do take care of myself.

      • DaveH

        Claire,
        I wasn’t dissing you. I was just explaining why we don’t have any great leaders. It is impossible for any government to know what is best for all the citizens. They are into too much of our personal lives.

      • Claire

        DaveH– I know you weren’t. I re-read my post and I did sound blunt. You are correct. Too much government intervention in the lives of Americans. I know we all want to keep our freedom and our privacy. Speaking of privacy–get on the Internet and type in your name, I did and I was amazed. My name is on the internet concerning dog shows. And for a fee you can get the scoop on anyone!! Addresses, phone numbers etc.

      • Save America Susie

        Claire and DaveH, It used to be that the Libs were always crying fowl about personal RIGHT to PRIVACY, and now they have surrendered to “Big Brother”. Ironic, isn’t it?

      • Claire

        Susie– In fact, I do not even know why I typed my name in but I did and WOW, there I was. There were several sites that would send you all information about certain individuals for $9.99 or something like that. You get their criminal record if they have one, everything! For some reason, I was surprised. But I guess I should have known better–with the Internet we are all fair game. Our privacy is gone.

    • Pete2sail

      I have been 85 years on this good earth and this great country except for six monrhs spent in France and Germany fighting to preserve your freedom and mine and priveleged to be able to do so. But now we are living under a arrongant leader who does not listen to the people — who bows to our enemies — who bad mouths us to the world and denigrates our troops and our friends in the mid-east the Israelis and is on the road to trying to make is name famous by trying to become the leader of the world and not the leader of a great country. He is a disgrace to his race and shame to his country and will become a failed few words in history. We can and will do better, I have no doubt,– this country has survived worse and it will survive this. And as far as the Constituiton goes. It is a great and historical work — only men can make it bad as they did in the 1800′s when they declared that men and women were property but gee it was not to long ago that even women were legaly Chattels and had few rights. The right things remain and the evil does change — sometime it takes a little longer.

      • Save America Susie

        Pete2sail, Thanks for your comment. I feel your pain! I also agree with what you have said here. Thanks for serving and fighting for this great country!

        “Land of the FREE, BECAUSE of the BRAVE”

      • Angel

        Thank you sir for you service. My dad was in WWII, my brother in Nam, my niece in Iraq. I remember even in the 70′s, women didn’t have the rights they do now. If your husband beat you, police didn’t get involve in domestic disputes!

    • http://aol wayne a

      david,i finally agree with you!

  • Barb

    Chip, I have always agreed with you on all three points. Especially the 2nd point. I still can’t figure out why a baby born to two illegals is automatically a US citizen just because it was born here. That is what draws so many to the US and gives them power to stay. It is absurd and needs to be abolished along with several other immigration laws! Kudos to Jim Clark and all the brave rebels out there willing to take the risk of standing up for our rights and our beloved country! I won’t even comment on Wayne’s drivel, he’s not worth my time. Keep up the great work, Chip!

    • Dave

      Is printing a shirt and wearing it to a basketball game really that brave?

      • Barb

        These days? Yes sir it is! Some people get death threats just for wearing OUR flag on their shirts! Wake up!

      • Dave

        Who got a death threat for wearing an American flag on their shirt? That guy was just trying to be a smart ass when he printed that shirt.

      • DaveH

        Smart Ass? I think you are being a Hater, Dave.

      • Barb

        The Suns Organization were the smart asses and they had at least 2 maybe 3 illegals playing for their team! Go figure!!!

      • Angel

        Excuse me, I am a 4th generation white female American who lives in Tucson. I have a black T-shirt that I got when visiting the moving Viet Nam Wall when I was in Iowa that says “Proud to be American”, with an eagle and the American Flag. If looks could have killed. I don’t go out much for this reason. They would just as soon see me dead as to look at me.

      • Save America Susie

        That’s pretty sad, Angel….America is crumbling! Tolerance is no where. Everyone should have the RIGHT to express themselves especially on a T-Shirt that was patriotic, like the Constitution says in Amendment #1.

      • Angel

        Because of the dirty looks that I get here in Tucson, especially when I wear patriotic shirts, I am even afraid to fly my car flag. That is NOT Freedom! When the people is afraid of the government, that is tyranny but when the government is afraid of the people, that is freedom…and I forgot who said that!

      • DaveH

        “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
        Thomas Jefferson

      • Save America Susie

        Angel & DaveH….LOVE IT when those Founding Fathers Quotes are flying! It is PROOF that what we say is truth. Let’s start a Founders Quote trend. Those quotes show: what the “proof of intent” of the Founders really was.

      • Rod the Other

        DAVE…WHO got a death threat?????!!!! How about the 5 highschool students in Northern California that wore an American flag on Cinco De Mayo? They got suspended from school and mobs of ANGRY YOUNG ANCHOR BABIES marching aroundf town during school hours looking for them….But I bet your going to tell me that that wanted to have an intelligent and respectful debate with them and then give htem kisses and hugs….

        Stop making excuses for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        They don’t want to join and become Americans, THEY WANT TO TAKE OVER THE SOUTH WESTERN USA!

      • Claire

        My gosh, I wear my patriotic t-shirts everywhere. No one says anything to me nor do they give me dirty looks. And if they did, they would sure get a dirty look back. I have a t-shirt with a German Shorthaired Pointer (my breed of dog) and he is holding a stick with a flag on it in his mouth. My family has a lot of patriotic t-shirts because we bought them during Desert Storm. We even put big yellow ribbons/bows on our car antennas. I have a flag on my big old van. I see a lot of patriotic bumper stickers, “Support Our Troops” and “Don’t tread on me.”
        My gosh, I can’t believe some people are so unpatriotic. What is wrong with them? They better stay away from me.
        And don’t make fun of me, I even have a bumper sticker that says: “My Dog is Smarter than Your Honor Student.” I also have bumper stickers that say: ” I Brake For Animals.” “Show Dogs- Do Not Tailgate.” My husband won’t let me put any more on. He said enough was enough. lol

      • Claire

        My post was directed to Angel.

      • http://aol wayne a

        or gets suspened from school like in calif.

      • DaveH

        Yes it is. And fighting to get back into the game after being thrown out by Security is even braver.

  • hflashman

    The 14th being an illegal amendment??? And the basis for this claim is…? Amazing…simply amazing.

    So the speeches go on about punishing some poor slob who is doing nothing more than we preach every day …”Get a job”. And not one post as yet has centered on the reeal core issue. American employers who break the law with impunity knowing whatever fines are levied, the bottom line profits remain.

    The solution is simple…anyone who knows, or should have known, they were employing uncodumented workers…goes to the county clink for 30 days. No suspended sentence on appeal..nada.

    No one will want to suffer the social indignity of jail time.

    No jobs, no reason to come here. So why isn’t this pushed as a solution ?

    So…my challenge to the posters here. Why are you not as rabid in ounishing the Ameicans who blatantly violate the law as you are wanting to punish the poor slob looking for a job?

    • Ed

      Actually, the real problem is our welfare stste. We do not require those on welfare to work. If we did, there would not be jobs for all the illegals. If no welfare then American citizens, who now draw welfare, food stamps, and housing and sit at home would then have to work to eat, have tv, a place to sleep, etc.

      • Dave

        Do you really think everybody could have a job if they just weren’t so lazy?

      • DaveH

        Duh, yes. If the Government wasn’t wasting our financial and material resources for their mostly anti-productive efforts, jobs would available for all who wanted to work.

      • airangel

        @Dave, not everyone…some disabled have truly legitimate reasons for not being able to work, however, a much larger percentage are ABLE TO WORK and choose not to…Welfare needs term limits and requirements for getting funds such as training, weekly check-ins, legal citizenship, e-verification to prove the right people are getting the help, drug testing, etc. With let’s say a 2 year term limit, this would pay for itself as it would not be “indefinite” funds to lazy, unproductive citizens…many would HAVE to work and “pay it forward” if they knew after 2 years their funds would dry up but they would be prepared and trained in a field to get a job…when you empower people to take care of themselves you liberate them rather than keep them dependent and dumbed down.

      • Sally

        Believe it or not, the Repblicans under GWB changed the welfare laws that to receive your check you either had to be in school learning a trade or working to get your check. Guess who wants to change this law back to the way it was – HMMMMMMM let me think. You are right if you selected the Obama congress. In fact it is up for vote as I write. It’s amazing when you et in tune with YouCut put out by Mr. Cantor the Republican Whip in the House. You even get to vote on what you would like cut, every week!!!!!!! there is a list of 5 items. If you sign up, you even get the House Schedule for the week. Man is that an eye opener in itself or the garbage that takes up Congress’s time and energy. I think if I am not mistaken, Congress is on recess now so the incumbents can go home to campaign. You are right —- we are paying for this also. If I ran my business like Congress and the other politicians run this country, I would be out of business and in the slammer to boot.

      • DaveH

        Angel,
        What happens if after two years they still aren’t willing to work? Will you care any less if they are going hungry? Will you then let them starve in the streets?
        I have immense compassion for truly handicapped people, but they should be helped with voluntary contributions, not involuntary contributions from taxpayers. It is not the Government’s money to give. And of course they are going to give our money more freely because it is not their own. So, in many cases the distribution of those funds is done wastefully. If we got the government out of it, and so many other things they are into, there would be plenty of money available from private charities for the truly needy. But in the case of private charities, the donors would expect the money not to be wasted on people who really are capable of working but just don’t want to suffer the negatives of working.

      • meteorlady

        If I ran out of money and had to eat and find shelter I have two options – steal or work. It’s just that simple. If I got no welfare, food stamp, free medical when I am perfectly able to work I would find work. My father worked three jobs at one time to pay for a hospital bill. He never once sought government help as it was considered bad to do that because in his opinion “there were people that really needed those services” and he was able to work. He never once considered declaring bankruptcy and skipping out on his obligations he just paid off the bill.

        Now we have generations like you Dave that believe we all owe each other a living whether we work or don’t work. Maybe you should open you house to those poor unfortunates that have a big screen TV, free food, free medical and all the other services that my government provides. We would have less of a deficit if you and all you progressive/liberal friends did the same.

        A though just occurred to me – why did you change your name to “progressive”? You used to be just liberals – is there something wrong now with that label?

      • mary high

        YOU ARE SO RIGHT ON. ASK ANY INTELLIGENT BLACK LEADER WHO LOVES AMERICA AND IS PATRIOT HOW WELFARE DESTROYED MANY BLACK FAMILIES. NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD. I SEE WELFARE LADIES WITH THEIR HAIR DONE IN BEAUTY PARLORS, THEIR NAILS IN THE SAME PLACE, WEARING RICH JEWLERY, AND DRIVING NICE CARS. MOST OF THESE WOMEN STAY UP ALL NIGHT AND PARTY FOR THEY DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO WORK. THEY PARTY AND IGNORE THEIR CHILDREN. THEY THROW THEM OUT WHILE THEY SLEEP IN THE MORNINGS AFTER PARTYING AND THE KIDS PEE IN THE HALLWAYS AND GOOD PEOPLE WHO SEE THEM OUTSIDE ALL MORNING WITHOUT CARE AND THEN THE MOTHERS WONDER WHY THEIR KIDS ARE KILLING EACH OTHER. I LIVED IN MANY COMMUNITIES WEHRE LOW INCOME HOUSING WAS BUILT AND RUINED THE GOOD, SAFE COMMUNITIES. GOD HELP US.

      • bp

        Absolutely! Not too many years ago, we could choose among job offers! Now, with a 10% unemployment rate, LEGAL Americans will appreciate the jobs illegals will leave behind! Minimum wage is better than no wage.
        It’s all supply and demand. The government is growing, the private sector is shrinking; this is unsustainable; one funds the other.

    • Barb

      hflashman, Most of the illegal immigrants are NOT poor slobs looking for jobs. They are here to sell drugs and set up gangs. Here to cause mayhem and murder period! The ones who want jobs and want to stay come over legally. BIG difference wouldn’t you say????? That’s why the big push to stop it. If they come for other reasons it’s to have their babies here and to get free everything as a result. Either way we don’t need to take care of Mexico’s throw aways. Why do you think Caulderon is so adamant about us taking them in? He doesn’t want to pay for them either. We are not the worlds babysitter and we don’t owe these people anything. If they come legally they are welcome otherwise get the hell out!

      • Claire

        Barb–Good post, and oh so truthful.

      • Mick for thought

        Barb,

        Please check the stats. The vast majority of illegals work for peanuts, live 3 families to a home and send money to family in Mexico. Their kids learn english and do well in school.

      • DaveH

        You can provide us with those stats?

      • Rod the Other

        Mick….YOUR WRONG
        They take any job they can get and the more jobs they fill, the more they get because those occupying a position seek to hire other ILLEGALS. It is the famous SLOW ERROTION that Liberals/Progressives are famous for.

        YOU NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

        How about Fastfood jobs? These jobs used to be occupied by teenagers and 20 somethings looking for their first experience in the job market or college kids working their way through college.
        Who do you see behind the counter at the local burger joint now….? You see middle aged Hispanic women (and sometimes men) that barely speak English.

        In LA, California the DWP (Dpet. of Water & Power) was just caught last year with having numerous ILLEGALS working for them. Many of them were making 6 figure incomes!!!!!! 1 of the Supervisors was making over $250,000!!!!
        THEY ARE STEALING AMERICAN JOBS…THEY USUALLY OBTAIN THESE JOBS WITH STOLEN ID!!!! Try and tell me that they not not having devistating effects on the lives of those whom they steal ID’s from!

      • Save America Susie

        Rod the Other, Good points. If you go to the northern U.S you see all American-born TEENS working these fast food jobs!

      • DaveH

        Mick,
        Your stats have almost nothing to do with your original comment, except perhaps the generic “work for peanuts”. Mind you, I am not one of those who thinks they are taking jobs away. But they are here working for those lower wages because it is better than they can do in their homeland. Nobody is forcing them to work for those low wages. They can’t get jobs in Mexico because Mexico’s economy is heavily regulated, like the Liberals want for our economy.
        Kudos to them for tolerating multi-family jobs to get ahead. The irony is that if they do become successful they will be attacked by those same Liberals who say they feel compassion for them.
        But still, above all, they are currently breaking the law. We either need to make it easier for them to work here or enforce the law. If we look the other way when they come here illegally, we are just encouraging lawlessness, the ultimate result of which is chaos.

      • DaveH

        I meant Multi-family homes (brain lapse).

      • meteorlady

        Please provide me with the link for those stats because in my area of the world that isn’t true at all.

        We are doing Habitat homes in my county. The lots we are buying up are in what was once a drug infested hell hole – mostly illegals living in trailer houses. They didn’t work, they robbed the houses in the nearby housing developments while people were at work. They sold drugs off their porches and the police were shot at when they entered that community. We have now built our 50th house and most all the illegals, drug dealers, home invasion experts, and other criminals have moved on. And guess what Dave and all you liberals – we did it without government help of any kind.

      • Mick for thought

        How they stack up

        Illegal immigrants tend to work in fields that require unskilled labor and little education. Native-born workers are more likely to have jobs that require more advanced skills and education.
        Undocumented workers Native-born workers
        Service occupations 31.0% 16.0%
        Construction 19.0% 6.0%
        Production, installation, repair 15.0% 10.0%
        Sales and administration 12.0% 27.0%
        Management, business and professional 10.0% 35.0%
        Transportion, moving 8.0% 6.0%
        Farming, other 4.0% 0.5%

        Source: Pew Hispanic Center • Print this

        Undocumented workers

        Illegal immigrants make up about 5 percent of the U.S. labor force, but account for 20 percent or more of the work force in some menial occupations, including house cleaners, dishawashers and meat processors.
        Percent of jobs held by undocumented workers
        Insulation workers 36%
        Roofers 29%
        Drywall installers 28%
        Meat, fish, chicken processing 27%
        Brick and stone masons 25%
        Dishwashers 23%
        Mainds, housekeepers 22%
        Cooks 20%
        Laundry workers 15%

        Source: Pew Hispanic Center • Print this

      • meteorlady

        Wait – some of those job you listed were not menial. They used to pay quite well in fact. Where I live they are working as roofers (used to pay around $18/25 per hour, now pays $8/10), bricklayers (used to pay around $30 not pays around $10/12), laying foundations ($15/20 per hour, now $7/10). So, when a US citizens wants that job they now have to take those wages. Add to that the fact that the vast majority of these people are not paying taxes and sending money out of the country. Sorry, don’t feel at all sorry for them, feel sorry for the family man trying to make a living when he has to pay taxes, insurance and licenses in some instances.

        I know that they take a lot of menial jobs, but I have also been working with 27 high schoolers trying to get summer jobs for them to save for college. Can’t find them. After two months, only 2 of the students have found a summer job. Most have given up. There are also adults in my community that will take any job right now just to keep their family afloat so don’t ask me to feel sorry for criminals that knowingly come here and break our laws.

      • del

        Mick have you lost your damn mind. They bring home more than we do on average. You can not not factor in their benefits. They got the best benefits in the world. Do you get free insurance? Hell they get that and free food to boot!

      • Rod the Other

        MICK…What is the point of you post? Are yo trying to say they are virtuous? They are invaders and outlaws and that has the biggest impact as to why the live like they live!

        AND WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN THEIR CHILDREN DO WELL IN SCHOOL? That is an out and out LIE! Because they are migrant their children tend to not invest themselves in school. Most of them can’t even get passing grades in a SPANISH class! I know many people that work for school districts and the academic achievement of MOST of these ILLEGAL kids is serioulsy lacking. But of course the MSM wants to make the case that they do well, so they will go find the 1 in a 1,000 that does well and say see this is what they are all like.

      • Mick for thought

        Read Barbs comment about them being murders and drug dealers. That is what I was commenting on.

      • Rod the Other

        MICK …..NO YOU ALSO SAID THEY DO WELL IN SCHOOL….WHICH THEY DO NOT!

        And by the way, I see MINOR flaws in what BARB has written, I give her a 9 out of 10! Anybody who is mildy informed is aware that the primary source of income for an ILLEGAL ALIEN is to engage in crime and smuggling. ALL OF THE MOST VICIOUS AND DANGEROUS LATINO GANGS ARE COMPRISED OF OVER 90% ILLEGAL ALIENS. MS13 (a notorious latin gang) was started in LA, then one of their Head Honchos was caught, extradited to El Salvador, and begin building an empire. Now MS13 spreads from EL Salvador to Los Angles, to NY!
        Do you honestly beleive that most of those that will risk their life in the desert to come here are going to let you or your families life get in their way?

        Did you know that more American Citizens die within our borders, at the hands of ILLEGAL ALIENS, than have died in the last 9 years in Afganistan and Iraq combined?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Mick,
        I suggest you talk to some of the police in Las Vegas NV. There are neighborhoods that they won’t even go into as they are out numbered and out gunned. The Mexican gangs number so high that they control 98% of the crime in that city!!!

      • Save America Susie

        I think its a case of when people don’t see or experience something, it just doesn’t exist for them. Like “see no evil, hear no evil” covering their ears and eyes, because they don’t want to know. They don’t want it to be true.

        It’s the “Ostrich Syndrome”.

      • Dave

        AGAIN, no one is proposing letting drug dealers become citizens. You would have to prove you are here to work and then the INS could spend their time getting rid of the evil doers instead of a family here to work. Where do you get your figures anyway? Is it a generalization? Guess what, most of the people making most of the money in the US off of drugs are rich white guys. Why aren’t they being arrested too? Part of the problem is that gangsters can come here and by guns because of lax regulations but no one cares about that.Let’s separate the illegal aliens that are here for the right reasons frtom the ones that are not and get rid of the bad ones and make sure the others are paying their fair share. Why is that so bad?

      • Pete2sail

        IS THERE SUCH A THING AS GOOD ILLEGAL OR BAD ILLEGAL. I THOUGHT THAT ILLEGAL MEAN’T AGAISNT THE LAW AND THEREFOR ALL BAD??????

      • Dave

        Part of your problem Pete is that the world isn’t that black and white.

      • DaveH

        At least not for Liberals who like lots of laws because they don’t feel they need to comply with them unless they want to. Laws aren’t meant for Intelligent Liberals.

      • meteorlady

        Oh Dave – get friggin real! The INS or ICE doesn’t even come close to having enough people to insure that the illegals are processed and backgrounds are checked. You live in a dream world – our federal government is inept and can’t do anything correctly little loan process some 30 million illegals in this country.

        Here’s a fact for you – 17,500 illegals entered this country last year alone from terrorist countries. Where are they and who are they – don’t know and neither does the government that is supposed to be protecting it’s citizens.

      • Rod the Other

        DAVE…like a typical LIB you make broad claims with absolutely nothing to substantiate it.

        You need to prove that it’s mostly rich white men making most of the money…I think the only way someone can make such a BOLD claim is to have inside info.
        From my vantage point, most of the drugs that are brought into the USA come by way of MEXICO and nothing gets through the crime syndicates down there without the syndicates getting their cut. And if you apply just a little business sense the people closest to the source make the most money….which would mean most of the money is ending up SOUTH OF THE BORDER.
        As far as LAXED gun control laws…Are you suggesting that Americans give up their SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT so M

      • Rod the Other

        SO Mexico doesn’t have to fear American guns in their Country? Did you know that 83% of the guns in Mexico come from places other than the USA? NO, you probably didn’t, because it doesn’t fit your NARRITIVE…i.e. “America is bad and is also the cause of all things bad in the world, if we could just be more considerate of the rest of the world, they might find it in their hearts to hate us a little less, because we caused so much of the poverty around the world”. Do you really understand the impact of how you would have our laws changed?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        rod the Other,
        A very high percentage of the arms in Mexico come from Russia and China via that little pipsqueak of a dictator from South America that Odummer and crew are so enamored with!!!

      • Rod the Other

        JoeH….Yeah isn’t it kinda funny (like not at all) how the MSM and other lefties never seem to mention that little piece of info…Again it doesn’t fit the LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE narrative.

        Also, I stated that about 17% of the guns come from the USA. But even that number isn’t really accurate. The reason it’s not accurate is because although about 17% of the guns that are taken away from the criminals in Mexico do come from the US, about 70% of that 17% (So roughly 12% of the total) come from the Mexican Military. You see, it is common for one of those fine upstanding Mexican citizens the join the Mexican Military to receive training and then not long after they are issued a weapon (Usually an American made M16) they desert the military and go to work for the drug lords, with their Government supplied weaponry and training. SO, long story short…Mexico’s gun problem has nothing to do with AMERICAN gun laws!

      • Rod the Other

        DAVE…HOW THE HELL DO YOU DEFINE AN ILLEGAL THAT IS HERE “FOR THE RIGHT REASONS” VS. ONE THAT IS NOT? If someone’s first act in this Country is to violate our laws, by what stretch of the imagination do you think that they will obey any of our other laws?

        Your justification of allowing open borders is an invitation to allow deseases back into this Country that were irradicated. Whopping cough was all but erased from the countinental US, and now we are seeing an alarming rise in it. And guess where the cases are the highest…That’s right Dave, along the border states where illegal entry is highest…what a shocker huh? But that probably doesn’t fit your narrative of them being “good illegals” does it? Would a “GOOD ILLEGAL” go straight to the doctor for treatment on the taxpayers dime?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        rod,
        Another disease that was completely gone from the US and now since the border is so open ahs seen a comeback is MALARIA!!! If they haven’t changed the treatment for avoiding infection for that since I was in VietNam, believe me you DON’T want to medicate to avoid that!!!
        It would be welcome to a monthly dose of the runs for about three days!!

      • Rod the Other

        This is a serious issue, but you made me laugh joe H…

      • Angel

        I heard it said that Mexico prospers from all the illegals sending money back home to their relatives. That is what Calderon DOESN’T want to stop, the prosperity of Mexico due to our illegals.

      • meteorlady

        Here’s a good one for you. When I worked for Immigration we processed an illegal, put him/her on a bus and sent them home all at taxpayer expense. After they were gone we collected their last paycheck and sent it to them in Mexico. Nice huh? Did you all know that happened?

        They send BILLIONS of your dollars to Mexico every single year so it would stand to reason that the corrupt regime of Calderon wants it to continue.

      • Sally

        Absolutely, just go into any Wal-Mart and go to Customer Service and look what it costs to send a moneygram to Mexico. That is the only foreign country that is listed. Its a big business and the number 1 GNP of Mexico or I should say 2. Dealing in drugs is No. 1 – they don’t want to stop that either because of the revenue. neither side I should add.

      • Rod the Other

        ANGEL…
        This situation is a win-win for Mexico. Noy only do they have Mexican patriots sending money home from the USA, but Govenrment is also saving the cost of having to pay these people with benefits from the Mexican social programs.
        You see, the people from Mexico that come here ILLEGALLY tend to be the poorest and least educated, otherwise they would be able to apply for legal entry. If these people stayed in Mexico, they would be a burden on the Mexican Government. So Mexico is being VERY SHREWD when they encourage IILLEGAL ALIENS

      • Rod the Other

        ANGEL…
        Did you know that Mexican schools teach their students that most of the states the comprise the American South West are theirs?
        They contend that they didn’t cross the border, the border crossed them. They teach something called AZTLAN..look it up…VERY SCARY AND INFURRIATING!

    • DaveH

      Oh sure, we should not punish the law-breakers, but we should punish those who bear witness to the fact that they are breaking the law. So if you have an acquaintance who robs a bank, he should go free, but you should be punished for not reporting him? How logical.

      • Save America Susie

        DaveH, I agree, it is so crazy!!

    • http://aol wayne a

      HFLASHMAN,first the illegal slobs should be punished too!next, until the gov. can come up with a fool proof way of verifying if the documentation the immigrants have is real and not stolen this won’t work.they said fake paperwork is a big issue.

    • Allan

      I think most, if not all conservatives on this site would want to see stiffer punishment for employers. Not sure why you don’t realize this.

    • Rod the Other

      HFLASHMAN…I have been advocating STRONG punishment for employers all along.

      If these companies are willing to seek a competitive edge by breaking the law, then when they are caught the punishment needs to be so severe that it put into jepordy the very existance of the the company.

      I think a fine of a $1,000 per day for every day of SUSPECTED ILLEGAL EMPLOYMENT for every person working for the company illegally. In other words, if they have 5 people that are working there ILLEGALLY and they are SUSPECTED to have been working for the company for 5 days then they pay a fine of $25,000.

  • Richard Brito

    YOU SUPPORT THE WORLD,…I CAN’T.

    • airangel

      @Brito – Why can’t you support “Legal Immigration”? I would really like to know

      • http://aol wayne a

        airangel,in principal,we support LEGAL IMMIGRANTION,but not these illegal parasites and cockroaches streaming across our borders illegally!

      • meteorlady

        I support legal immigration, but feel there is a need to reassess our entrance requirements and quotas. Canada has done so in the past. They did this because they were being over-run with people sponsored by churches that were not capable of making there own way in the new country.

        We have entire populations of immigrants now that still don’t speak English, live in subsidized housing, receive free medial, food stamps and welfare. The have their own communities, their own bankers (don’t have to show income) and they are not assimilating into our society.

        I guess I object to people that come here with their hands out when we have come to the point where we are laying off fire, police and teachers in order to keep supporting the non-productive people that live here. A lot of immigrants have made it through hard work and sheer determination and I applaud them. I hope that they keep coming here, but if the churches want to sponsor them, then the churches should be the ones to support them. Anyone that sponsors an immigrant should be responsible for them, not me as I had no choice or voice in the original decision.

  • Mary

    As a legal immigrant, coming here the right way, learning the language, adopting the culture, I feel insulted by the American government every time I see any illegal immigrant! I did everything right but I don’t have the same privilege that they have. I don’t have free health care, I am not allowed food stamps, my only right is to go to work and pay my taxes, so that these people can live in this country for free and laugh at you and I! I came here for the American dream, for free enterprise, for the pride of the country, but this is fading away so fast, it’s scary! (please excuse my English, but at least I do speak English!)

    • George E

      Bless you.

    • Dave

      Welcome to the US. Everyone here appreciates that you did it the right way. One of the advantages you have in being here is the right to express your opinion. In this country hard work can be rewarded and I wish you success. If hard times were to fall on you and you could no longer work you would be eligible for the same types of social welfare programs as the people you are speaking of. Free lunch and healthcare sound great but that’s not quite the case. You would have to go to an emergency room or clinic for your care and not everything is covered. Also, you have to live in a neighborhood with a very high crime rate and horrible conditions. Those free school lunches are only for the Children in school too, not the whole family. I hope you never need these services. I hope you get the American dream which is much different from welfare. It’s the ability to achieve what you set your mind and work hard to get.

    • DaveH

      Excuse your English, Mary? It’s much better than most I’ve seen on this board.

    • meteorlady

      Thank you Mary for choosing our country. We welcome you and hope you stay long and have a good life here.

    • http://aol wayne a

      mary,welcome to America,you did it the right way.

    • bp

      There’s nothing wrong with your English!

    • American Liberal

      Mary… Who was president when you entered America?.. And what were the requirements to become a citizen.. What a nice story… I’ve seen a couple on other sites just like yours..can. You tell me your native language?…I’m getting feeling this post is a little suspect… You seem to be trashing our government on one side of your mouth and on the other saying you came here for the American dream… I’m not buying your story…

      • libertytrain

        American Liberal – If you had a good or any real understanding of what people go through to get here (the ones that do it legally) you might have a grasp as to why Mary would be chagrined that our government doesn’t give a flying rat’s rear about the illegals coming in like flies – just wants to make it very difficult for those who did it/are trying to do it the legal way -

      • meteorlady

        What a sad person you are. Even if Mary were not for real as you maintain. Let just take fake Mary. Mary had to go through lots to get here LEGALLY. She had to wait in line for a long time. She had to have medical examinations. She had to submit a lot of personal information. She had to forego a cursory background check. I worked at Immigration for 5 years and know the steps. Maybe go and study up on it and see, then look at the quotas, etc. Might help you to better understand your country instead of sticking to one point of view.

        The immigration laws are there to protect the citizens of this country from economic hardship as the result of immigration, terrorists, and to protect the general public from new diseases. Is that aim being served by the mass influx across our southern borders?

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Mary,
      god Bless you and yours! Thank you from the bottom of my heart for using the legal and proper way!!

  • Richard Brito

    CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.

    • Ed

      Then let them go HOME and get their charity.

      • Claire

        Ed–I agree.

      • Barb

        Ed, AMEN!

      • http://personalliberty PFFFF

        Actually that is right on the money!!!

      • Vicki

        I think that was Richard’s point. At least it should have been :)

      • Angel

        And when it is FORCED on the taxpayer, it ceases to be charity!

      • Save America Susie

        Exactly!!!

      • JC

        Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Thus the beneficiaries are spared the shame and danger that their acts would otherwise involve… But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to the other persons to whom it doesn’t belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish that law without delay … No legal plunder; this is the principle of justice, peace, order, stability, harmony and logic.
        Frederic Bastiat

    • del

      Viva Los Deportation

  • Wayne

    From reading the ranting and raving of your selfish,territorialneoconservative agenda I have concluded that you are a “Bigot”.

    • http://personalliberty PFFFF
    • DaveH

      And from your sweeping generalization, I have concluded that you are Ignorant.

    • meteorlady

      I just love it when you talk dirty to me…..

      When all else fails and there is not argument or reasonable explanation use the term “bigot”. Tiresome, and it does not show your superiority, it shows your lack of class and the inability to form a complete and rational comment that makes some sort of sense.

      • DaveH

        Get him, Lady!

      • meteorlady

        Thanks Dave H… I was amused that day I must admit.

      • JC

        It shows that they have no morality and no logic going for them so they resort to that same ol thing…race baiting. It’s about all they’ve got.

  • William Wu

    This country is free because of the Rule of Law. This does not mean everything is correct or wrong. It means everyone has the same right and if challenged has to fight for it in court. Good examples are the Civil Rights challenges, Women Right to vote, and also would you believe the 14th Amendment clause?

    • http://aol wayne a

      WU,the 14th amen. has never been challenged in court yet,but it soon will.lawyers have been working out of loopholes which soon will be closed.next our constitution guarantees american citizen’s rights,AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!!!!!

  • Ken Roberts

    It embarrasses me when someone like that speaks , he is a fellow human being and he is insulting every human on earth when he says that we need no more proof than some judge citing the 14th . the 14th has never been challenged in court and until it is it will remain as law . It being right or wrong has never been decided by the supreme court or any other court, if it has not been ratified it needs to be challenged and soon as we have a large supply of babies that need to go home with mom an dad,. darn I wished I’d thought of the t-shirt; I could use the extra money ,rats.

  • CHUCKY

    I just do not understand why there is any debate over this. What part of ILLEGAL is not understood. The mainstream media will still try to browbeat the public every night on the news in favor of amnesty. If I break the law I must pay fines and/or be imprisioned.What makes ILLEGAL ALIENS ABOVE THE LAW? IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE OF GOVERNMENT IN MEXICO THEN GO BACK THERE AND CHANGE IT. The media will spew their propeganda at us (example:The cute little school girl asking Michelle Obama about her mother not having papers, T.V. sitcom featuring an ILLEGAL ALIEN as a funky fresh cool dude who would not hurt a fly)
    When they do that,All I think about is that murdered rancher’s grandchildren who lost their grandfather. The latest statistics show that 12 AMERICAN CITIZENS A DAY DIE AT THE HANDS OF AN ILLEGAL ALIEN(GOOGLE IT NON BELEIVERS)And while we are at it Where are the womans groups that should be against this for the rapes and sex murders comitted by ILLEGALS. What is the #1 function you should expect from your government. Is it bailouts of banks and corporations? Is it making sure that you eat the right things? or is it protecting it’s citizens from invasion on United States soil? The answer is pretty easy unless you have no common sense left. NO MATTER HOW THEY SPIN IT,NO MATTER HOW THEY SUGAR COAT IT. SETTLE FOR NOTHING LESS THEN SEALING OUR BORDERS AND DEPORTING ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS. If only one American job is given to an ILLEGAL ALIEN instead of an American citizen in our economy now, it is a tragedy.

    • Dave

      No one is saying anybody is perfect. How many Americans are killed by other Americans each day. What some people ARE saying is that if someone who is here illegally has gainful employment and can prove it then they should have the right to a path to citizenship. If someone is a drug dealer or outlaw they would not be able to become a citizen. That way we can separate the illegal aliens who are here for good reasons from those here for bad. There is really no other way to do it. Do you really think we can build a 30 foot fence all the way across the southern border? How do you propose we stop illegal immigration? Should we have 100,00 troops on the border at all times? Should this be a police state? That sounds a lot like East Berlin doesn’t it? Wasn’t that an oppressive communist country? Aren’t we better than that? Are human rights NOT a priority? With NAFTA millions of Mexican corn farmers were put out of work because of how much farmers here are subsidized by the government with tax payer dollars. The corn is so cheap that the Mexican farmers couldn’t compete. Many of them end up coming here to work in horrid conditions just to feed their families. I’m not saying we open the border up as a free for all, I’m just saying that we need to consider all options and think about this rationally instead of emotionally. Remember, we’re all immigrants to this country.

      • http://yahoo.com marc

        Russia built the east berlin wall to keep people in because all were leaving headed for west berlin/life/liberty/pursuits,Dave. We should have built a militarized wall thirty years ago. Instead,president jimmy carter(mommy’s peanut brain)proposed amnesty to all illegal mexiroaches from communist mexico. Illegal entry is what it is. Whether its someone breaking into your home or breaking into our country. I don’t want them here. The federal government gave el president’ calderown the red carpet treatment and I was truly ashamed of obama/democraps and the truly discusting way this commie turd was welcomed. All he did was complain about arizona’s new law. Obama’s speech made me want to puke. Had I been there I would have thrown my shoes at him.

      • DaveH

        If you don’t like the immigration laws, Dave, then work to rescind them or change them so that legal entry isn’t so onerous. But please don’t advocate that people who break them should be rewarded. That is not the voice of reason, that is the voice of foolishness. No good can come from looking the other way when people willingly ignore the laws.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        DaveH,
        Sheriff Joe Aripaio said in an interview that if immigration won’t take the ones arrested in Arizona he won’t worry as he has more military style tents to erect!! He said let this law go into effect in July and have the government say they can’t arrest them. He will still arrest them!! He said he is sworn to serve and protect the people of Arizona and protect them he will!!

      • meteorlady

        Dave you are such a dreamer. Whose going to do all that. In 1986 84% of the people that applied for amnesty did so with false documentation and thus receiving their legal status through fraud.

      • http://aol wayne a

        first dave,i am not a immigrant,i’m a naturalized citizen as is most of us! why should we reward these parasites that broke our laws by coming here? in most countries they would be imprisoned for yrs. or shot! they have taken every freebie that our ignorant gov.will give them and hasn’t gave a damn thing in return.they have depleated our welfare system,our schools,our hospitals,our gov. subsidized housing…..they sent back 32 billion back to mex last yr., pay no taxes,they refuse to speak our language,adopt our customs,conform to our society,increase our crime rate.illegals is one reason the economy and gov. programs have been slow to recover.i’ll tell you how to protect our borders,put up many,many signs then mine it.cheap fix!

    • Allan

      Progressives want to to re-define civilization. They don’t let laws, traditions, productivity, property rights, sovereignty, or you paying for it stand in their way.

  • http://personalliberty PFFFF

    I think USA is the ONLY country to grant citizenship to a newborn child solely because it was born on her soil. Change that.
    Stop hiring illegal immigrants. Change that.
    Received this in the mail:
    Subject: Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

    From a California school teacher – - -

    “As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of.

    I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

    Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

    Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I’m not talking a glass of milk and a roll — but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.

    I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.

    I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America …

    I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students, here in the country less than 3 months, who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them “Putas” (whores) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.

    Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

    To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

    Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I’ll pay more for tomatoes.

    Americans, We need to wake up.

    It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It involves an American third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about “political correctness” that we don’t have the will to do anything about it.

    If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

    CHEAP LABOR? Isn’t that what the whole immigration issue is about?

    Business doesn’t want to pay a decent wage.

    Consumers don’t want expensive produce.

    Government will tell you Americans don’t want the jobs.

    But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase “cheap labor” is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as “cheap labor.”

    Take, for example, an illegal with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an “earned income credit” of up to $3,200 free.

    He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

    He qualifies for food stamps.

    He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

    His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

    He requires bilingual teachers and books.

    He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

    If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicaid. All of this is at (our) taxpayer’s expense.

    He doesn’t worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

    Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

    He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

    Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

    Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!

    THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY. AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON’T DO AS THEY SAY (or what we ask?), WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM .

    Please pass this on to as many as possible. Immigration legislation is to be considered in 2010. This is important to working Americans, our economy and our American culture and heritage..

    • Jim Silva

      AMEN!!!!

    • Smalls Biggie

      Reply to PFFF. Wow! Thanks for sharing and including so much relevant content. I have been a school teacher for over 20 years. In my school system it is against the rules to check for residency status or citizenship of any student at any time for any reason. All student are enrolled who show up at the door. The only things required are a declaration from an adult that they currently live in the district; and a TB test. The status of the adult is not checked. They will wave the first requirement, if an adult will not participate. Name, age, birthplace, and parentage are also not checked or verified.

      The main stated reason for this undocumented policy is that students might not attend if they (and the adults) felt they would be identified and get in trouble; and that it is better for the kids to be in school than to not be in school.

      I would assume this is the policy of ever school system in the nation. As noted by PFFF, the schools are also the conduit for federally funded food programs. Again the reasoning would be that it is better for the nation as a whole for the kids to be well fed, if they are going to be here anyway.

      It is my belief that the main reasons these policies exist is that more money comes into the school systems from the State and Federal levels. It is all based on numbers. More students mean more jobs for teachers, administrators, and support staff. We all know the Teachers Union is the largest, best funded, and most influential in the country by far. They will do anything in their power to get as many students into their systems as possible. If they had their way, they would incourage as much illeagle immigration as possible and as many babies born regardless of the mother’s age as possible.

      It’s job security, and better pay–plain and simple.

      I estimate that about 20% of all the students in my system for 20+ years have come across the Mexican boarder illegally, or were born from parents of illegal status. Our system is on the East Coast-mid Atlantic.

      • JC

        Thanks for the perspective.

    • 2WarAbnVet

      Great read! People on the front lines should have an even greater audience.

    • Factman

      Canada, along with many other countries, also have citizenship by Birthright. Many European countries have modified Jus Soli laws.

      You can read more about it here.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

      • http://personalliberty PFFFF

        I believe this refers to legal immigration not illegal aliens from your cited website. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

        The US says BORN IN or naturalized.

        Thanks.

        Modification of jus soli
        In a number of countries, the automatic application of jus soli has been modified to impose some additional requirements for children of foreign parents, such as the parent being a permanent resident or having lived in the country for a period of time. Jus soli has been modified in the following countries:

      • Jeff

        As a Canadian, you might want to read up again on our laws. We changed them some time back and they are quite specific. We also changed them to read that you must have means of support before you can enter our country. The US is so dumbed down that they are accepting new immigrants that head straight for the social services offices for their handouts. These people are the becoming a drain on you system as well as the illegals that you so opening invite to your country.

      • Sally

        True, my son was born in Turkey and had dual citizenship until he was 21 years of age and if he would have stepped on Turkish soil even as a US citizen when he was between the ages of 17 and 21, he would immediately have been enlisted in the Turkish military. I don’t think we have any problems with the dual citizenship part of the birth what we have a problem with is all the freebees that go along with it – SSI until that child is 18, free medical, etc. etc. etc. None of the other countries that offer dual citizenship rights offer all the welfare benefits – that is the main problem, As the article says “Cheap Tomatoes” is not true.

    • Another Voice

      You’re right about ‘cheap labor’ not being cheap at all. However, the employers who hire illegals do benefit greatly from it. It’s the taxpayers who foot the bill. This is the mantra of the Republican Party – let big businesses make big profits and keep their taxes LOW, while the working class shoulders the financial consequences of theses policies. To me, this idea is just as wrong as allowing illegals to work here in the first place.

      • meteorlady

        Stop witht

      • meteorlady

        Stop with the blame game – it’s been going on forever. The 1986 amnesty just proliferated it because they now all believe that they can come here illegally and get rewarded. In 1986 84% of those legalized were granted that status through fraud because there were not enough people in the government to process the 2 million or so applications.

        Today all the same arguments are being used to persuade us to do it again. The most important argument/promise made in 1986 was they our borders would be secured and this would never happen again. Boy were we lied to on that one. 10 years after 1986 amnesty, most of these legalized immigrants were still receiving at least some type of social assistance and were adding 10 million to our deficit each year (that was in 1986 dollars).

      • http://aol wayne a

        another voice,part of the problem in the US is idiots like you.how in the hell are going to blame this mess on just republicans? both parties are to blame! but lets see,since obama has been in office newsweek said that even with the US’s economy being in a recession,the flow of illegals has continued to increase.reason being,they get free welfare and are banking on obama to give them amnesty and citizenship.why would obama and his croonies do this? VOTES!he has already admitted in interviews that he may be a one term pres. and this is a way to insure he gets re-elected!

      • Dexter60

        Another Voice::
        “However, the employers who hire illegals do benefit greatly from it.”
        That is a bogus bit of assumption: costs to businesses are paid by the consumer, all else is eye-wash.

        “It’s the taxpayers who foot the bill.” bottom line indeed.
        “This is the mantra of the Republican Party – let big businesses make big profits and keep their taxes LOW, while the working class shoulders the financial consequences of theses policies.”
        That is the democrap mantra. There are parasites in all parties.

        I do agree that no matter the song and dance it is “… just as wrong as allowing illegals to work here in the first place.”
        But it is the ‘progressive’ government, with the biggest payroll in the state of California, spending 60 Billion dollars each year on ‘education’ that needs the swollen pond of leeches to put upon the working people and at the same time expand and tighten their grip on the reins of power.
        Getting the picture now? there is not any one handy label that can cover all the variations of these modern fascists in post-racial America.
        Have a nice day.

    • VMCox

      A good portion of this letter from the school teacher is untrue. If you don’t have a social security number, you can’t file for earned income credit. Most illegal immigrants do not receive assistance. Some of the contention that only immigrants will do the work, is true. Recently a very large orchard in central Washington, was subjected to a “papers check” resulting in 1/3 reduction in the population of a nearby town and the loss of many trained workers. The orchardist advertised the jobs at $12 to $16 per hour, with an average production bonus bringing the pay to an average of $18/$20 per hour. No one applied. He is now flying H2-A visa workers in from Jamaca, the first 50 arrived last week. Regular Americans do no want to pick fruit, period, even for $20 per hour.

      • Vicki

        Then offer them $30 hr. There is a price for which there will be US workers. Especially in the current unemployment environment.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Vicki,
        When younger, I picked apples, tomatoes, and asparigus and for a lot less then that. We have college kids here right now working for a lot less to go to college. Pay them the 12 to 20 dollars an hour. Have you seen tuition lately? I have! I have a kid in college going for her bachelors then her doctorate!! I don’t believe his contention that they are paying 20 dollars an hour.12 to 15 maybe, but not 20!

      • Angel

        Had it have been near my daughter, she would have loved it. She is an all American girl who even did corn detassling. So you can’t say ALL!

      • Claire

        Angel–Your statement brought back memories. When I was in my teens I detasseled corn and it was hotter than Hades. But I made some money and that was all I cared about. And I bought all the clothes I could!! lol

      • Save America Susie

        Angel & Claire, I AGREE with both of you. Left-winger people would be surprised that their argument about the Legal people not wanting the lower paying jobs, because its beneath them, is false! The fact is: they have not been given a chance to show they would work, as the illegals OFTEN have these jobs. Look back to the 1930′s when the dust bowl hit. Everyone was starving, and took what work they could. A lot of mid-west whites who were born here, and lost their farms from the dust, were doing these jobs and thanking God for it. Its in the history books! But I wonder if this new crop of kids even gets to read that history of ours. A lot of our history is left out these days!

      • Claire

        Susie–I had to pass a horrific test on the Constitution and Bill of Rights before I could graduate from high school. And I kid you not, there were several kids that didn’t pass and guess what?? They didn’t graduate!! I hear kids nowadays do not even have this type of test before they graduate. The history they learn now must be next to nothing.
        I also remember a whole bunch of us seniors skipped school one afternoon before graduation. We went to the old swimming hole over by Berdan, IL. When we got to school the next morning, we were called into the office. The principal, Mr. Wilson reprimanded us and sent us home! He also told us he was not sure we would graduate! He sure put the fear of God in us!! Talk about squalling and bawling! My Mother was fit to be tied. Boy I sure got into trouble over that one. Needless to say, Mr. Wilson let us graduate because we were “good kids.” I saw him several years ago at the mall here in town–he gave me a hug. Then the next thing I knew, he had died.
        There I go, rambling again! Sorry.

      • meteorlady

        As someone that was born in Washington state and moved out because of high taxes, I can believe what you say. However, with the high unemployment rate in that state maybe the state should make the people accepting unemployment take those jobs? Don’t you find it odd that if they are offering so much money that people on welfare that are able to work would not want those jobs? Don’t you find it odd that those on unemployment might want those jobs?

        Orchard owners make a hugh amount of money. I know that for a fact – but they also take risks that their crops will not turn out well. I believe if you take statistics from the Yakima Valley you will find that the crime rates have steadily risen there, the illegal population has grown and spilled over into the construction trades on the West side, education levels are low, that the welfare roles have increased with the migrant population, that there are drug growing operations now conducted on private land, where automatic weapons have been found, and that there is generally more poverty in that area.

      • WarriorH

        Actually, many do obtain fake SS numbers and if they do receive a paycheck with taxes withheld the government actually is aware of the multiples of the same number being used. They just choose to ignore this fact.

      • Sally

        You are incorrect on the earned income credit. Any good tax preparation service lie Liberty Tax etc., can get you a temporary number and file your taxes as long as you have your passport and papers (not green card or any of those papers) Of course to get the earned income credits, you have had to have income supported by a W2.

      • http://aol wayne a

        VMCOX,where did you get your references from,i want to verify it? lol theres not a bit of truth to what you said.first,have you ever heard of fake or stolen ID’s?according to newsweek at least 58% of the illegals are getting welfare and it increases even higher if they have a anchor baby.two weeks ago in the LA Times there was an article published that said only 2% of the illegals work in the fields!VMCOX,make it up? VMCOX,are you illegal too?

      • GlennAz

        I am 70 and when growing up in the 40s and 50s there was no such thing as a job an American wouldn’t do. We all raced each other to get any job. The only reason there are jobs Americans won’t do is the welfare system pays them more.

      • Vicki

        And punishes the welfare recipient by totally removing the “support” when they earn even a little money. Well it was that way. I have no idea how it is now but that effect caused lots of folk to look at min wage jobs and realize they were better off not working at all.

      • Winnie

        GlennAz, that is so true. Welfare will eventually break the country. It is because of welfare that our young people don’t take education seriously and for that, the government should have some really strict rules. Here in Canada, or rather in Ontario, Canada, if a person has not got a job within three months, then he or she is on their own. Now with teen pregnancies, welfare is stuck with the young mothers until the child is of daycare age. Even though I lean more to the left, I firmly believe that people should take their responsibilities seriously. How much better off we would be if we had no choice but to grow up and become responsible for our actions and our families.

      • Rod the Other

        VMCOX ….YOUR WRONG.
        This notion that these are jobs that Americans won’t do is absurd. This same arguement was used to explain why the Tyson Chicken processing plant was hiring ILLEGALS. AN immigration raid to place and hundereds of their workers were arrested and removed. The next day Tyson put an ad out to hire replacement and they had over 3,000 people respond and the jobs were filled by weeks end.
        This is another one of those LIBERAL lies.

        If we enforced the law and broke the back of any company that hired ILLEGALS these companies would no longer seek the competitive advantage the cheap labor provides and they would once again pay the age that the market place set through fair competition.

        For example:
        In 1980 the market rate for an Electrician was around $20/hr. Today the market rate for an electrician is $20/hr…Why? Because ILLEGALS are willing to do the work for less, usually under the table, and they have suppressed the wages for that skill. This is one of the most devistating effects ILLAGES are having on our economy (NOT TO MENTION HOW THEY ALSO SEND THEIR EARNINGS TO THE MEXICAN ECONOMY AND NOT OURS).

    • Randy Goeman

      Also could be said that I on $1400 a month disability lost a good chunk of medical assistance BECAUSE I make too much. Now I pay more for medical, prescriptions insurance & co-pays. BUT I didn’t get a COLA this year but illegals get it for FREE!!!

  • Bob from Tucson

    I live in Tucson and am outraged with the dis-information about SB1070. I think we should adopt and rigidly enforce Mexico’s Immigration Law on our Southern border.

    • Al Sieber

      I agree with you Bob, i live N.W. of you, it’s the same pretty much over the whole state. we are the only country in the world with open borders, left open for a reason? I applaud Jim Clark for standing up for the 1st amemd. and screw the Suns.

      • airangel

        I think Israel needs to teach Homeland Security how to enforce and control our Southern Border!

      • http://personalliberty PFFFF

        Is that freedom? Not to me!

      • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

        Exactly what is freedom to you?

      • http://personalliberty PFFFF

        It’s not a police state.

      • DaveH

        Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t you support Big Government, PFFFF?
        Government is Force, not Reason.

      • meteorlady

        Not freedom to you? Are you illegals, a criminal? Enforcing the laws of the United States is freedom to me – freedom from drug wars on our borders, freedom for our children to get a quality education in their own language (ENGLISH), freedom to not pay for free loaders and criminal, freedom to be able to walk my property without fear of drug dealers and smugglers assaulting me. Oh heck why argue…. You won’t change your mind anyway.

      • Save America Susie

        I think sometimes it is just that people have not lived long enough to experience WHY we need to enforce our legal laws. They have never had a negative experience to SHOW THEM the necessity for laws. Anarchy = Chaos. Responsible Laws = Freedom. That is why we have a police force. #1 purpose = for protection of the innocent.

    • Angel

      Angel from Tucson…Bob, I agree!

    • http://aol wayne a

      bob,you’re damn right!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Allan

      Exactly…why would progressives want to give rights to a country that won’t give the same rights to us? Answer, give them time, and they’ll try to make other countries just as politically correct.

  • Claire

    The current administration should back Jan Brewer and the bill She and Arizona has passed. No ifs, ands, or buts.
    It is very troubling to me that all past and current administrations did not contend with this problem. Now it has grown considerably and has become an uncontrollable situation.
    Forget being loyal to a party, look what these political parties have done during the past. They did next to nothing. Each administration left this problem to the incoming administration to deal with. None of them had the guts and backbone to do something about this issue. All they thought about was the political aspect, would they lose votes, would they jeopardize their political future? The so-called Democratic and Republican parties have been and are very willing to sacrifice the welfare of all Americans for their own gain. They have already done this. Sure, there may be a few good politicians, but dang few. They are like chameleons, they change the minute they are elected. I don’t believe any of them paid much attention to the Constitution. Oh yeah, they probably checked the Constitution once in a while to see what they could get by with. I don’t trust any of them.

  • Wanda

    Go Jim go I hope you sell so many t-shirts you can hardly keep up with the orders. I’m sick of hearing anything about Mexico and I’m tired of that Mexican government mouthing off about what we need to do here. What he needs to do is take care of Mexico. But that isn’t happening so you wonder what the big pay-off is. We know what the big pay off would be if he could control our country but that will never happen.

  • Buddy

    My hat’s off to Mr. Jim Clark, of course he is just one of some 70 odd percent who know Arizona is right, but he is one with the gonads to parade his belief.
    Thank you too Chip for continuing to speak out for the real USofA.

    • Dave

      All of the USA is the “real” USA. Are we all supposed to have the same opinion? Do you think all of the framers of the constitution agreed with everything in the there to the letter? Do you think there was no debate because they all had the exact same vision? What makes the US the great democracy it is is the fact that you’re allowed to have any opinion here.

      • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

        It is not a democracy!!!!!!!!!! We live in a Constitutional Republic. It is a Republican form of Government. Or didn’t you study Civics (American Government). Democracy is mob rule, and I for one will not live in such a system. Give me Liberty or Give me
        Death.

      • Dave

        This Constitutional Republic is based on Democratic principles. So are you saying that you just want to choose which Mob runs this country? Are you saying you’d rather have a dictator to give you liberty? You have the right to be here and say stupid things, isn’t that liberty?

      • DaveH

        No, he is saying that the Federal Government was given Limited Powers under the Constitution. The rest of the powers were retained by the States and the People.
        By “mob rule” he is talking about the fact that in a true Democracy, the raw majority rules. The other 49% get trampled. Maybe, Dave, we should give you the system you think you want:
        http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2009/51_say_congress_is_too_liberal_22_say_it_s_too_conservative

      • Save America Susie

        Awesome points, DaveH!

      • Rod the Other

        I am so tired of uniformed, uneducated, unintelligent morons trying to substantiate their view by saying “…we live in a democracy”.
        The Constitution was written by mortal men trying to create a document that would provide the maximum amount of freedom with minimum Governmental interferance to support and promote freedom and individual wellbeing and opportunity for those that wished to work for it. This union hall mob mentallity is disusting!

      • Mike In MI

        Dave H. -
        He’s going to get the system he wants – he and all the other God haters who think they know better than God how the world should operate. It’s all explained Bibically in the Book of Revelation and other places.

        No where is it written that making the world more pleasing to the liberals’ theories and expectations is going to make the state of man improve. It says evil men shall get worse and worse, not better and better. So, if anybody thinks it’s bad now…you ain’t seen nottin’ yet.

        God knows how He set up and created the world to operate. The only reason things that work work is because they are in conformity with what He says He’ll bless and support or it fits in the framework of the material realm laws He established. Those laws operate in the physical, mental and spiritual realms universally.

        Evil is anything man does to try to deny, contradict, act in opposition to, circumvent or disestablish. Evil is both the driver and the result. Liberals’ ideals and actions are in almost every case the total reversal of God’s established order. As liberal ideas gain more and more traction in the world the world becomes more confused, backwards and ruined. LIiberal action results in more and more destruction because it is in opposition to God’s wisdom. The world is not on automatic pilot as scientists would have us believe. Our belifs and behaviors matter.

        Opposition to God is simply unbelief.

        Unbelief is sand in the machinery of God’s Universe. Man’s thinking and action is either in harmony or dissonance with what the Universe requires. Quantum theory posits that things done by volition in one location can have multiple effects or exist in various locations or realms of existence simultaneously.

        So, the more evil that is acted out the effects are multiplied in manifold ways. The more right actions are carried out the effects are multiplied in the direction of bringing benefits. So, as evil men become worse and worse the effects will become more and more disastrous…until God decides to intervene and put a screeching halt to it.

        The evil people living and causing all the disruption will have the opportunity to partake of the rotten fruit of their evil thoughts and actions. (It is not going to bring the utopian joy they expect.)
        However,the Bible states that people who exhibit Godly desires and actions will be removed before God intervenes by sending His Son, the Lord Jesus, back to claim the kingdom he earned 2000 years ago.

      • Vicki

        Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.

        The US is a Constitutionally LIMITED Republic. As a republic we use certain democratic principles to select who represents us. Such a republic is just as capable of “mob rule” as any “pure” democracy. For that reason in particular the founding fathers created limits on what the representatives were to be allowed to do to the people.

        Since some at the time felt that just stating what powers the government was to be allowed to have, no matter how the people or their representatives voted, the founders successfully added a Bill of Rights to that Constitution thus enumerating SOME of the rights they thought most important to explicitly protect. (See amendment 9 for the rest of the rights of the people and amendment 10 for the powers that are allowed to the states.)

        History has shown us they were correct. Time and again the government has tried to break the bonds and do things way beyond its intended function. Almost all of the attempts have been by use of the power to regulate commerce between the states.

        Imagine where freedom of speech would be today if there was no First Amendment for instance.

        Should we ever manage to get back to the principles of the Constitution and stop being envious of the successes of others we might again experience this rumored “freedom” that our forefathers fought and died for.

      • Save America Susie

        Vicki, I love what you have said here, & I love your quote! I had heard it before, and loved it then. The rest (which I think is terrific)
        is:

        “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.

        > LIBERTY is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!”

        –Ben Franklin

      • DaveH

        “Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.”
        Thomas Jefferson

        “Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.”
        Thomas Jefferson

      • Save America Susie

        DaveH, I love when people actually do their “homework”, and read what the Founding Fathers actually said! It is so important to get back to the Founders vision of America! Those are good quotes I had not heard before. Thanks for contributing them to the group!

      • Mick for thought

        It is a democratic republic.

      • Rod the Other

        WRONG….it’s a Constitutional Republic…..THE CONSTITUTION IS THE CENTER BY WHICH ALL THINGS PIVOT IN THIS COUNTRY!

      • meteorlady

        Sorry to burst your bubble, but we haven’t been a democracy for quite some times and we are slowing and sadly loosing our Republic status also.

      • bp

        Not exactly. High crimes and misdemeanors, traitor, hurting others. The basis for the constitution is a personal moral responsibility before God. That would be the Christian God, not allah or any god.

  • Dustin Saunders

    “But according to Mr. Warheit, we don’t need any of that. Forget any evidence; ignore any arguments. Why, if the Court cites the amendment in a ruling, then it must be legal, proper, and oh-so constitutional. Sounds like an argument by the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, doesn’t it?”
    If the 14th amendment was thought to be unconstitutional, a competent lawyer would use it as grounds for appeal in any verdict that cited that amendment.

    • Walt

      Dustin, you need to think about what you just stated and then read a little bit of what the job of the Supreme court is. The Supreme court only interprets the constitutionality of LAWS not amendments to the constitution, amendments to the constitution become the constitution and are ratified by a 2/3 vote of all the people in all of the states. How do you judge the constitutionally of the constitution with the constitution? The progressives have succeeded in dumbing down the people. Watch the movie Idiocracy I think you were in it.

    • Matt

      The 14th amendment does not enact Mr. Spencer’s Social Statics.

    • David Warheit

      Thanks, Dustin. Also, if a case came before the Supreme Court involving the 14th Amendment (or any other part of the Constitution) and some members of the Supreme Court were at the very least unsettled as to whether that section was lawfully adopted or whether it means what people have been saying it means, they would notify the attorneys on both sides of their concerns and ask them to brief the Court on the matter. In the case of the 14th Amendment, this has never been done.

      The only circular reasoning is that of Mr. Wood: the 14th Amendment was never lawfully adopted. But it must have been, we’ve been told for almost 150 years it was, and besides, if it wasn’t why isn’t the 15th Amendment referred to as the 14th Amendment, which it would be if the Amendment we’re talking about doesn’t exist? Answer: because Mr. Wood says so, therefore, end of discussion.

      • Allan

        Kinda like our President. We’ve been told he’s our President, but is he? Lot’s of liberals didn’t think Bush was their President from day one. I guess, to quote the Beatles…”man see’s what he wants to see”.

      • Don Ramon

        I believe arguement over the 14th amendment is over the fact that the Southern States were at the time control by military governorship. Read up on the reconstructionist period after the Civil War. States that kept butting heads with Union government were told to disband there representative bodies. After which the Union under military governing appointed new state houses. These are the people that voted in the 14th not the elected officials of the states. In which case would be against the State’s constitutions which all clearly define how a state must inact laws.

  • Harold

    The only thing missing in our country in today’s PC world, is a set of balls. We are so worried about telling the truth and having the culprits face the truth, because the truth hurts, that we fear retaliation from the ones who don’t like to hear the truth. When the culprits hear the truth, they feel the only way to react is to riot, protest, or show some kind of militancy towards those who are telling the truth. Here it is…..to those of you who are here in this country illegally…..either go through the process of legal citizenship or face the law and be deported back from whereever the hell you came. If you are here illegally, you are costing those of us who are producers, money that could be spent on things that are so much more important than you are. Don’t go away pissed off, just go away!

    • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

      I’m glad you like the truth Harold. The problem and the root cause to almost all the problems we have is the fact that our government and corporations are being controlled by an elite few. Those few exert their power though their control of our economic system(s) through centralized banking. Mexicans and other illegals are a drop in the bucket compared to the havoc these economic predators create not only in this country but on the planet as whole. Wars to them are a commodity where they can only gain regardless of the outcome (short of total world annihilation through war or environmental catastrophe). So don’t waste your time on some people who for the most part are just trying to get a better life (yes there are some who are looking for a free handout), but like I said.. don;t waste your time on the small stuff. Keep you eye on the prize. The true bandits of the planet, who no politician will even mention.. Republican or Democrat, Tea party or Green.

      • Farming Jimsey

        I agree with you Duende- illegal immigration is a problem but it’s tiny compared to the wholesale theft of money, productivity and resources of the American people (and middle classes the world over). This theft by the Financial sector and their bought and paid for accomplices (governments/politicians)may exceed a quadrillion dollars ($1,000,000,000,000,000,000 !!). People should focus their attention on this fact now because in the eyes of the elite criminals, we are all “illegal immigrants” on this planet.
        People that are still thinking in terms of “conservatives,” “liberals,” “Democrat,” “Republican,” etc., are allowing themselves to be deluded and distracted by the MSM. They are all corrupt and they don’t care on damned bit about you except for how much they can tax you or are you able bodied enough to fight their wars.
        WAKE UP PEOPLE!

      • DaveH

        So true. Big Government is the problem, not the solution.
        The leaders love to distract the citizens with one catastrophe or another so they can build their power and the Government.
        I do think the laws should be obeyed, but there are too damn many of them. We need to cut the number of laws to a much smaller number that are easy to understand and rigorously enforced. And we need to cut the Government to a much smaller size.
        There is only one Political Party I know with the principles and will to do that – The Libertarian Party:
        http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      • Angel

        Have you ever heard of the Constitution Party Dave?

        http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

      • DaveH

        I have, Angel, but they are decidedly bent to the religious side. I’m not sure they would be much better than the Republicans. I have absolutely nothing against religious people. In fact, I embrace their morality for the most part. But true freedom involves recognizing peoples’ right to control their own bodies and property, free from the force of others. Only the Libertarian Party recognizes those rights.

      • http://aol wayne a

        20 million illegals,a tiny problem? lol

      • Rod the Other

        HOLD ON!!!!!
        ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION into the US is by NO MEANS a drop in the bucket or a small time problems that doesn’t deserve our attention.

        Your efforts to turn our eyes from this issue need to be seen for what it is….ANOTHER EFFORT TO BUY THE ILLEGALS TIME TO “DIG-IN” AND BECOME HARDER TO REMOVE.

        ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and all that follows it are the means by which America’s blood will be let from it’s veins. I by no means am holding to ANY corporation and believe if they have broken the law, they need to be PUNISHED for it. But, I will not be lulled into thinking this is a small time issue. What happens when these people’s children grow old enough to vote? After not so long you will have generations of invaders that are voting for surrendering American land to Mexico! Your walking a very dangerous path here. This path will allow the ILLEGAL desease more time to infect and spread!

      • http://alex110539@yahoo.com alex ,sandiego

        whats wrong dave not smart enough to make it on your own?

      • JeffH

        Duende, you’ve pretty much got it covered. I’d like to add that we need to get control(NOV2010) of our own government before we can start the fight against the globalists.

      • Allan

        Welcome to basic human nature. Pretty unproductive to talk about if you ask me. But it’s why religion, Boy Scouts, etc, who at least try to imbue a moral code, are essential in managing chaos and forming character.

    • cheryll

      What part of illegal don’t they understand.. The illegal’s, and our own government need to read the definition. “Not lawful, not sanctioned by official rules”, that is the definition, Mr. President, and all illegal’s.

      • Randy Goeman

        BRAVO!!!!

      • independant thinker

        they cannot comprehend the i and first l. all they can see or comprehend is legal.

  • http://www.lostnation.blogspot.com Jeryl D

    In reality, progressives don’t really care what the Constitution says nor the opinion of the people. Of course, they want the people on their side, but only to legitimize their agenda. Lacking public support, they will simply push ahead with the (erroneous) knowledge that they are the Illuminated Ones looking after the unwashed masses. Whether or not the 14th Amendment was ratified makes no more difference than whether Obama is a natural born citizen or not. As far as they are concerned: the Constitution be damned.

    • Dave

      Can we get passed the Obama is not a citizen thing? Did anyone ask for GWBs birth certificate? I never saw a copy of Dick Cheney’s birth certificate, did you? The one thing you fail to acknowledge is that Progressives are American citizens too who believe in and are protected by the constitution. The theory that people that want to try to make this country into something better and to progress are somehow unAmerican is part of what feeds into the hate and even dehumanization that many of you feel toward progressives. What do you REALLY think the progressive agenda is? Do you think we want to turn this country into Russia? Do you really think we’re trying to ruin this country? Everything evolves, like people from Monkeys. It’s a different world then it was in 1950 and if America doesn’t change then we’ll be the next Afghanistan. That was a real conservative stronghold and look what it got them. Fear of change ruins a country. Fear of immigrants has always happened. There was a time when Irish were descriminated against and everyone said that allowing them to immigrate here was going to ruin this country. The same with the Italians, the Germans, etc. The latest is hispanics. Most of you wouldn’t be here without immigration and many of your ancestors did not apply for a visa and wait months to get into this country. More needs to be done about illegal immigration but can you consider for a minute that maybe part of that will be to bring some of those illegal aliens into the fold so they can be a part of this great country? Then we can really crack down on the border so we’re not chasing down families trying to come and work but stopping drug traffickers, gun runners and terrorists. If they were documented then we could make sure they are paying their share of taxes which would pay for their kids to be educated here and for all of those other services people here always complain about them getting. Sure, it’s less than ideal to feel like you’re “rewarding” someone for breaking the law but it just may be the right answer to the situation if you look at it rationally. Do you think that someone who opposes a government law they think is unjust by peaceful protest where they know they are going to be arrested is unAmerican? There is no one here that has not broken a law at some point in there lives. Although this may seem like a “bigger” law to break wouldn’t you do it to feed your family?

      • TIME

        Dave,
        Hows that Darwin award looking on your wall?

        Progressives = marxist of what fails to = American nor what
        American stands for, that being “FREEDOM.”

        What does the word Illegal mean?
        For you to try and equate someone slipping a 2 cent piece of gum in to thier pocket to a {Federal Class Felony} is as absurd as standing in a bucket of water and pluging in your toster to make sure it works.

        But then again you did WIN the Darwin award, so that explains all your rhetoric.

        Hey Dave as your an expert in pretzel logic let me ask you this.
        If you stick your head in a limb shreader will it make your hair look good?

      • Mick for thought

        Dave made some really good points you just brushed off. Please try to think outside the conservative box for a minute and reread his comments.

      • Dave

        Thanks Mick

      • DaveH

        Please try to think outside the Liberal Box, Mick, and tell us what those great points were.
        Was it “Progressives are American citizens too who believe in and are protected by the constitution”? That is a laugh riot. They are busily trying to redistribute the wealth and could care less about the Constitutional Limits on Federal Power.
        Was it “Do you think we want to turn this country into Russia?”. No, of course progressives don’t intentionally want the results of Russia’s Communism. They are just too ignorant to know that is where they are heading us. They think that this time the results of redistribution of wealth will work, even though it has never worked before. It is intuitively obvious to anybody who doesn’t have their eye on the trough that if you take money from the people who earned it legally and give it to those that haven’t, the results will be less productivity and more poverty. The victims of that theft understandibly will work less thus producing less, and the recipients sure aren’t going to work harder and produce more.
        Was it “Afghanistan. That was a real conservative stronghold and look what it got them”? Afghanistan was a “conservative stronghold”? The Taliban was the epitome of the Absolute Power of Big Government, which the Liberals want to create. True “Conservatives” embrace the freedom which our Founders tried to guarantee. Freedom means less government, not more.
        Was it “There is no one here that has not broken a law at some point in there lives”? Wow, how presumptuous! That is how Liberals think. They want to pass more and more laws. Why not? They don’t need to obey them anyway, because the laws aren’t meant for superior people like Liberals. I guess I could make the sweeping accusation that all Liberals are Liars, and Mick the Thinker will say I’ve made a great point.
        Was it “Wouldn’t you do it to feed your family?”? That reminds me of something my Union Leader brother-in-law once said to me. “If I had to, I would kill people to feed my family”. Nice. Is that Dave’s version of “evolving from monkeys”?

      • Save America Susie

        Mick, Sorry but…I don’t really think MOST people would become murders to feed their family. NO. I disagree. What’s the point of living then?

      • libertytrain

        Save America Susie – my feelings exactly.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        Well said Dave H. I was going to comment but would never have done as good a job as you.

      • DaveH

        Thank you, Bruce.

      • Mick for thought

        I do think outside the liberal box that is why I can understand your points but also see your points are made on assumptions that start at (a) and go to (z) with very few, if any, points connecting the dots.

        Everything between the far right and far left are Americans. I have seen many people in here quoting this reference or that reference for a historical perspective but failing to realize that what they are reading was written by a person with their own inborn biases. History is written by the winners and the people of a region. We flip from conservative to liberal governments every 4-12 years the idea that all the history books have twisted liberal intention is nonsense. Every time I research a topic we are discussing here I find this is true. You are what you read. That is why I read everything to understand the perspective of both sides of a subject. I never agree with everything I read from either side. That is why I recommended you reread his perspective trying see what truth there is.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        DaveH,
        You ever notice that the ONJLY time the liberals support the constitution is when it protects THEM??? Here Dave has been crapping on the constitution all night and all of a sudden since he can use it for gain he supports it!!

      • DaveH

        Of course, Joe. They will slip and slide to whatever side they think will support their arguments. They have no real principles other than their lust for the money of others.

        And Mick, what do you mean we switch back and forth between Liberals and Conservatives? We have had nothing but Big Government loving Liberals in office for the last 30 years. Please don’t confuse Conservatives with Right-Wingers. True Conservatives love the Freedom that was established by our Founders. Big Government is opposed to Freedom.

      • TIME

        Mick FT,
        You just got your new Darwin Award too, now you can all hang and bang the drum while singing ComeO ByO BoO YaO in a cave deep under ground where no one will hear the tune as your now in a special club that few ever get to be in.

        So Hush Hush and mush mush your now a special member in the lacking gray matter club for boys who live in Mommies basement.

      • Matt

        Is “Darwin Award” a diss? You can’t be serious. Every where in this nation, civilized people know Darwin’s theory as fact, because its been proved by science. I classify Republicans into two categaries. The stupid ones with guns who are creationists, and the rich wall street businessmen who at least know that evolution is a fact.

      • Dave

        Matt, you are a complete moron! Do you realize that Darwin himself retracted his own theory? You have absoultely no idea what you are talking about and that’s what’s wrong with this country! Stop being a sheep and pay attention!

      • Dave

        To the other Dave who said that Darwin retracted his theory I just want to let you know that is some right wing misinformation. That never happened. I don’t know where you got your information but you need to start looking elsewhere to educate yourself and don’t believe everything you read.

      • Dan Burke

        I suspect “Darwin Award” is a bit of irony. Haven’t you ever heard of the Darwin Awards? I have, at least the comedy version. It is awards given to those who remove themselves from the gene pool and thus prevent passing on that stupidity to future generations. The fact that this is being used in reference to someone still alive is ironic. I like the bucket and shredder references. These are two events that could be worthy of the comical “Darwin Awards.”

        Here is the sweet comparison. For all you “enlightened” people out there… Progressives are typically equated to believing that evolution can be applied to government and human rights just as it is applied to biological and environmental processes. Unfortunately, there are those of us who point out that the old adage of “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” So how does this apply to progressives. In order to enforce their desired evolution forward of mankind, they need to create a structure with power over the people. Why? Because not all of us share that vision and mankind has a history of defiance. Take even our own life cycle as individuals, quite often we go through several “rebellious” phases. In our “terrible twos” we are often actually just trying to define our boundaries with our parents and “no” is usually our favorite word. My daughter is there and she’ll even say “no” to the cup of juice she just asked for less than a minute before–at which point I make to make good on her “no” and she’ll usually end up correcting herself because she actually does want the cup. Anyways, later as teenagers, we are often rebellious against our parents or other authority because we are trying to become independent. So it shouldn’t be a surprise that we do such as adults and groups when faced what we perceive as repression of our identities. To create a progressive idealic world, these rebellions must be squelched with often dictatorial authority. We see this going on all around us in America, our rights to choose food, education, and eventually employment compensation are all sliding from private controls over to government regulation and laws. This is progressivism. And what happens as government gains all this power? Does it make us free? Well, not is ancient history replete with examples of what happens, but so is modern history. Isn’t the IMF coming in bail out Greece and dictating to the government how to manage the money, what to wages to pay, and so forth? And is Greece listening? Not really. They seem to be determined to continue down their path of overspending. Suddenly their progressive government doesn’t seem so bright. Just like our own politicians. We can show history in America that government regulations and taxes impair business growth and innovation while loosening the noose around business actually can be followed by accelerated growth and greater taxes revenues too. So what do we choose by default? Giving businesses freedom? Individuals freedom? No. We restrict freedoms. We enact new laws and when costs go up do we blame our legislation? No. We blame the businesses we regulated. I am not saying businesses are not corrupt. There are plenty of corrupt businessmen. But when we give our politicians power over us, expect that power to corrupt them. I am wasting all this typing and I realize I could boil it down to one simple reason why a politician must enslave their constituents.

        A free man can vote for anyone who they darn well please. There is no job security for a politician with free men. Progressives cannot control free people just as you can no longer control your children when they have learned to be independent of you.

        An enslaved populace must vote for the politician who supports the government that continues to provide for them. In other words, if a progressive wants the power to mold the people into a brave, new and evolved mankind then it is best for them to enslave the people. Here they have control. There is no freedom here.

        And by the way, Nazi Germany and China are progressive governments, plus many others in recent history, and the price tag for progressivism seem to include lots of massacres. For example, under a progressive government I must either be reeducated or killed. There is no room for anything else because if my thinking is preserved there is the risk that it may gain momentum and actually undo all their efforts to remold the people into their vision of an evolved man.

      • JeffH

        Dan Burke, a mouthfull, but very well said mouthfull.

      • DaveH

        Another Liberal showing his Ignorance:
        http://www.darwinawards.com/

      • Save America Susie

        Matt, In every college and university around the world, It is STILL called The Evolutionary “THEORY”! A theory is somehting yet unproven. Professors still say, “It may have been” or “It may have looked like”, when they teach evolution…I sat in Anthropology class while they passed around some of the evidence and I almost laughed out loud. Whole skeletal structures in many cases were the imagination of some artist based on a single tooth or parcial skull cap. In the 1930′s “Piltdown Man” was declared “The Missing link”. For 30 years the educators taught this as fact. Then in the late 1960′s they retracted that because it had been discovered that it was a HOAX. A man had wired a jaw of an ape to the skull of a man. Many Creationists are brilliant scientists with proven high IQs, so you can’t call them all dumb. It just isn’t so.

        * Type into your Internet space “Piltdown Man Hoax” for the story!

      • Save America Susie

        P.S. I learn about “The Piltdown Man Hoax” in Anthropology class in college from my professor–NOT from the right wingers.

      • Citizen Gram

        I’m sorry but Darwin’s theory has NOT been proven by science. It takes more faith to believe in the evolution of species than it does to believe in GOD by a long shot.

      • Sally

        I cannot believe that someone actually believes that Darwanism is a fact. It has been proven without a shadow of a doubt that it is not true because there are sooooooo many unexplanable holes in that theory however Matt in not to distant of the future it will all be revealed to you and I am sorry to say it will be too late for you and for all people of your same ilk.

      • http://aol wayne a

        matt,i was going to put you in a category with the rest of obama and his croonies but you deserve a category all to yourself! it’s a du@#$%^,fu@#$%^, idiot!

      • BobA

        Hello Matt

        If you knew anything about science, any scientist would tell you that any theory can not be absolutely proven. As for the theory of “Evoultion” you should really do your homework. Evoultion has never been proven true. Even the top biologists in science do not agree with the theory anymore. Some have even come up with alternate hypothesis such as “Panspermia”. The revelation that information or instructions are input into the DNA of living organisms has changed the minds of many scientists. It takes an intelligence to input instructions into the DNA code. It did not happen by chance: it is stastically impossible.

      • TIME

        Matt,
        This post is why your now a Darwin Award winner.

        One word that proves it wrong; Dinosaurs.

        Thank you please leave a tip for the bar keep, and I will be here all year, Try the PorkO bag Samwitch.

      • TIME

        Dan Burke, A well thought out post. Thanks,

      • meteorlady

        Dan – thanks for the lengthy and very correct post. Nice to know there are still thinking people left in this country.

      • Dave

        Nothing you just said makes sense. It kind of sounds like you’re not thinking rationally which is really the root of the problem.

      • Cathy

        First of all…it’s “past” not passed… Why should we get past this BO birth certificate thing? We don’t know ANYTHING about him except for the fact that he’s had many associations with nefarious characters and his mentor was Frank Marshall Davis, a communist. Duh…

        Secondly, if you progressives don’t like the way America is, why don’t ya all move somewhere else and start your own country?

      • http://personalliberty PFFFF
      • DaveH

        It’s “get past”. To get past something is to “get over it”. Past is being used as an adverb. To “get passed” would be using passed as an adjective. To “get passed” would be used when something or someone has been passed by another object or person, such as “getting passed” in a race.

      • WarriorH

        I’m just trying not to “get pissed” at liberals/progressives but I believe that may not be possible.

      • bp

        No, it’s PAST, as in “get past it already”! Not as in “Obama has passed the buck” already! One must read IN CONTEXT. Why should we give him a pass on the “birth certificate thing?!” Pun intended:-)

      • Dave

        We’re fine with the way America is. We’re trying to make sure we keep making it stronger. It kind of sounds like you people on here whimpering about things are the ones who don’t like America. I think it’s all of you cry babies that need to go elsewhere. I think you have every right to be here an complain but if you hate it so much you are free to leave. I here there are job openings in Afghanistan. That’s a great conservative fundamentalist country you can go live in.

      • DaveH

        That’s rich. A Liberal cry-baby accusing others of being cry-babies. The Freedom lovers in this country would be quite content taking care of themselves. It is you Liberal cry-babies who are constantly seeking protection from reality at the expense of others.

      • DaveH

        Wah! Feed me. Wah! Clothe me. Wah! Shelter me. Wah! Doctor me.

        What a bunch of Liberal Whiners!

      • Save America Susie

        That is what makes America great! The FREEDOM to WHINE if we want to. That’s called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I would worry about someone who did not complain. Those who did not complain were on the side of the English in the American Revolution. The Rebels against England were the “whiners” who cause America to be born into this great nation of ours! So are you saying the Founding Fathers were whiners? Yes, and proud of it!

      • Save America Susie

        Both sides have that RIGHT to complain. We should have been a fly on the wall at the discussions over writing the Declaration of Independence! The complaining was fast and furious. That’s the America way! Debate! If there is no debate, then you must worry that you are in a county that is NOT free!

      • Claire

        Save America Susie– Thank you for your unbiased approach to whiners. Debate is necessary.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Save America Susie,
        I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when Odummer first found out about Arizona’s new law!!! I’ll fet the language was real fluent!!!

      • Save America Susie

        Good one Joe H! Made me smile.

      • Tracy

        Most illegals have one goal in mind. To come here make money send it home and leave. No love for our country no allegiance no loyalty NOTHIN!!!! I know some of these people as I actually lived in Mexico for a few years. It is much harder to become a citizen there and you NEVER get teh right to vote or protest. A hypocritical travesty.

      • kate8

        Yes, Tracy. And that means making money any possible way they can, including the commission of crimes against the American smucks. A great deal of their “business” is criminal activities, including murder and mayhem, and lots of illegal drugs.

        Let them stay home and fight for their own countries, like we did. Our prosperity and freedom was hard won, paid for with the blood of people who would not accept tyranny. Being compassionate does not mean being suicidal. We are rapidly losing our way of life because of third-world invasion.

        Our country was great because of the Christian morality held by our founders, our system and our people. We have degenerated as a nation as we’ve lost our integrity, our faith, and our accountability. Reading the liberal comments gives a fine sampling of why we are collapsing as a culture.

      • Save America Susie

        At least McCain gave us his long form B.C., with much data on it, verifying he was born on the U.S. military base in Panama–which is legally considered part of the USA. At least we had some facts to go on. The issue for me is NOT whether he was born here–he may have been–Its that he claimed “transparency” and then hid everything! If someone is your president, the American people have a right to see it. Not just take the word of 2 people that said they saw it. Even a CEO of a major corporation shows more proof. It hangs on his wall behind his desk! Its matter of TRUST, more than anyhting.

      • JC

        Dave says:
        June 4, 2010 at 7:42 am
        Can we get passed the Obama is not a citizen thing?

        NO!

      • American liberal

        Dave… Awesome post… And very well put…thanks…

      • DaveH

        Not!

      • airangel

        DOUBLE NOT!!

      • Save America Susie

        Love that DEBATE! Its a sign we are still a FREE country!!!

      • American Citizen

        TRIPLE NOT!!!

      • Citizen Gram

        All of those you mentioned have provided a birth certificate when asked to do so as part of the vetting process because they have nothing to hide. (Obama side-stepped that one somehow.) And the birth certificate would have been legal, unaltered, and official. I think the question is valid and if the president wanted to instill more confidence he would provide a valid birth certificate. He would also surround himself with moral, tax paying, honorable men and women and not use Chicago style strong arm tactics that make us all worry and doubt his ability to govern this great nation. I’m really concerned about or current administration and you should be too. If you are not asking questions, I would ask you why not?

      • http://aol wayne a

        dave,you need to take some modium ad,there goes that diarrhea of the mouth again,on and on and….why in the hell should we make 20 million illegals that broke our laws citizens? they’re the uneducated and unskilled poor that mex is glad to get rid of.they put a strain on our schools,strain our welfare systems,abuse our hospitals and er’s,,strain our gov.subsidized housing system.they refuse to speak our language,adopt our customs or conform to our society.they raise our crime rates,they’re uninsured and unlicensed so OUR premiums go up!HELL NO,NO AMNESTY,HELL NO,NO CITIZENSHIP!!!

      • Sharon

        Dave,
        I am left speechless by your idiotic rambling…you are sorely uninformed. You are however correct on one point. Yes, the Constitution of these great United States of America protects Progressives, unfortunately you do not return the favor.

      • meteorlady

        While you make some interesting points, here’s what the current nominee for the Supreme Courts has stated:

        In one of her legal writings, Kagan cited Marshall’s assertion that the Constitution, “as originally drafted and conceived,” was “defective.” This view is consistent with President Obama’s contention that the Constitution “is not a static but rather a living document and must be read in the context of an ever-changing world.” That is so scary to me that a legal judge would deem to interpret the law in whatever manner their belief system dictates. The law is the law, period. Their job is to rule on points of law, not rule with their hearts, values, beliefs or any other skewed ideas they might have.

        And that is what we are afraid of. Progressives are selfish in that they take other’s money by force and coercion and give it to someone else, then take credit for doing something good. We were established as a country of laws. We believe in those laws. For the Federal Government to REFUSE to enforce those laws as a means of protection of it’s citizens is in itself criminal.

        A progressive thinks more and bigger federal government is the answer. A conservative believes that less federal government is better for everyone. The STATES have RIGHTS and the Federal Government should butt out and let the state handle their own business. Stop the federal funding bribes and revenue sharing, and then pulling the money if the states don’t perform per expectations. Stop the interference in our school systems and give the authority back the communities. I don’t care if you want “to make things better” it’s up to you personally to do that, but do it with your own time, effort and money.

        I’m going back to what I have said to you time and time again – I work for charities in my county and not one single progressive/liberal has showed up to help, because they are spending their time campaigning on issues that will get them noticed, adored and generally thought to be helping the interests of my county. The rest of us conservatives and middle of the road Americans are pitching in and helping with time, money and our own energy. That my friend is the difference between you and me – I do something, you just throw out ideas and more bloated government programs for me to pay for.

      • Rod the Other

        I would like everyone to keep in mind something that one of our greatest founding fathers said, “If it does not pick my pocket, nor break my leg, it is of no concern to me…”. The founder who made this statement was Thomas Jefferson and it goes straight to the heart of what believing in the Constitution and being a good American means.

        To all of you open-borders crowd….ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION does both. It not only picks OUR pockets by way of the social programs that the ILLEGALS TAKE and the jobs they occupy. It also breaks OUR leg by weakening the beleif of and adherance to the Constitution and commitment to our Nation.

        Any person that does not have allegance to the Amercian flag (nation) is not an American and is BY DEFINITION IN HOSTILE OCCUPATION OF ANY AREA THAT THEY INHABIT.
        To me any illegal, of any color, or of any nation is an invader and a threat to OUR nation. Those who seek to allow this are giving aid and comfort to the enemy and should be considered enemies as well.

        When patriotic Americans speak of illegals Aliens we get called RACISTS….Why? How does race become part of the debate? American immigration laws make no such reference to any persons ethnicity! I’ve yet to hear ANY person that is against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION say that we need to stop the illegal entry of one race but encourage or even allow the ILLEGAL entry of another.
        The reason is actually pretty easy to see. Over 70% (some say nearly 90%) of those who enter the USA ILLEGALLY are Hispanic. So when law abiding American citizens say, “We want the destruction that the ILLEGAL ALIEN invasion is bring upon the American citizens stopped”. It is heard by the pro-ILLEGAL ALIEN crowd as “We don’t want Hispanics in the USA”. AND it is through this twisting of the debate that the pro-ILLEGAL crowd seeks to gain validity to their arguement. Take notice that when you see protester ralling for immigration reform, who do you see in the crowd?…does it look like the same mix of races that you would see anywhere else? This debate is being altered through semantics. It is allowing people that aren’t legally entitled under the Second Amendment to protest in OUR streets, against OUR laws, and these invaders are being given credence by OUR (supposed) political leaders as having a VALID voice in the policies of OUR nation.
        They want to position this debate by saying that those coming here illegally are just hard working people looking to better their lives and that they are an asset the nation…THE INTENTIONS OF THOSE COMING HERE FROM MEXICO ILLEGALLY ARE! NOT! THAT! INNOCCENT!!!!!!
        do a web search on these topics: Aztlan, Mecha, LA Raza, Reconquesta.
        http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

        I have been aware of a MEXICAN movement called “La frontera del norte” since the mid 80′s. In this movement the objective is to RE-conquer the northern frontier (or to put it another way, reconquer former Mexican lands) by OUT BREEDING AMERICANS and pushing us out.

        MAKE NO MISTAKE, WE ARE NOT HAVING A SIMPLE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHO GETS TO COME TO AMERICA, WE ARE VERY MUCH IN A FIGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY. IF WE DON’T GET OUR HEADS ON STRAIGHT AND WAKE UP TO WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON IN THIS DEBATE, WE MAY WAKE UP ONE DAY AND FIND THAT THE SOUTH WEST PORTION OF NORTH AMERICA IS UNDER CONTROL OF THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT.

      • Jana

        Rod the other,
        Very excellent post. Thank you.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Amen!!!!

      • American Citizen

        Well said. The truth shall set us free.

      • grendal

        good reply rod,i agree totally we are at war for the south west states.

      • mary high

        I AGREE VERY MUCH WITH ROD ON THE BORDER PROBLEMS AND THE RADICAL MEXICAN GROUPS WHICH ARE LED BY THE TERRORISTS THE MUSLIMS WHO ARE CONDITIONED TO KILL THE INFIDELS, WHO ARE US, THE JEWS, ISRAEL, THE CHRISTIANS AND ALL WHO WILL NOT ACCEPT THE PHONEY MOHAMMED, THE CHILD MOLESTER AND PEDIPHILE. DO YOU THINK GOD WOULD CHOOSE A MAN WHO HAD HAREMS FILLED WITH ALL COLORS AND RACES OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN? DO YUO THINK GOD WOULD CHOOSE A MAN WHO OWNED AND SOLD SLAVES? THE HOLY PLACE THE MUSLIMS CALL MECCA WAS THE LARGEST SLAVE MARKET IN THE WORLD. THE RADICAL MUSLIMS AND THE RADICAL AFRICANS BEGAN THE SLAVE MARKET. IT IS IN THE BOOKS OF WORLD SLAVERY. EVEN AFRICAN KINGS OF THOSE DARK AGES HAD MANY SLAVES AND MANY HAREMS FILLED WITH ALL COLORS. WE BOUGHT CALIFORNIA, ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO FOR $10MILLION IN 1853 AND IT WAS NAMED “THE GADSDEN PURCHASE.” WE PAID FOR ALL THE LANDS WITH MONEY, BLOOD AND SWEAT. WHY DIDN’T THIS HALF BREEDS, WHICH MAINLY ARE PART SPANISH, THE CONQUERERS, AND PARAT INDIAN WHO LIVED IN THE LANDS IN MANY TRIBES AND LANGUAGES JUST LIKE IN OUR LANDS IN AMERICA. MANY COUNTRIES CAME HERE TO FIND RICHES FOR THEIR KINGS AND QUEENS. I, AS A CHRISTIAN AND BROUGHT UP IN A ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND FOUGHT FOR RIGHTS WITH MANY SAINTLY PRIESTS, SUCH AS FR. KILLGALLON, THE FAMOUS AUTHOR WHO WAS THE FIRST TO PUT MARTIN LUTHER KING INTO THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM AND WAS ALMOST MADE A MARTYR. I KNOW BECAUSE I WAS THERE WITH HIM. I CAN GO ON AND ON WITH THE NAMES OF SO MANY GREAT CHRISTIANS SUCH AS THE ONES DURING THE CIVIL WAR. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO BE CALLED NAMES BECAUSE JESUS WAS CALLED A DRUNK AND EVERY OTHER NAME IN THE BOOKS OF HATE AND IGNORANCE.

      • American Citizen

        It seems you don’t understand the difference between legal and illegal. We can’t take in the whole world. Look at our situation now, massive unemployment, the dollar worth practically nothing, crime rampant in those state along the Mexican border, etc. Wake up!

      • Save America Susie

        American Citizen….One thing that concerns me is that in 50 years when my grand kids are my age, and my great-grand kids are young adults, this country will not be the same AMERICA possibly as the country we remember & love. I have read, and seen videos on YOUTUBE about demographics changing, that talk about the population explosion of certain groups that would want to threaten our way of life (because they prefer their own alien culture & just want to live here). Certain groups that have about 5 to 8 kids per family.

        Because the traditional groups, from European ancestry that founded our great country, are only having about 1 or 2 kids now per family. They are disappearing over time. That is NOT enough reproduction for our AMERICAN Culture to survive. It is not just about politics and voting now, it will BECOME about mathematics! Do the math.

        ONLY IF the LEGAL Immigrants (of various ethnic groups) follow in our foot steps & ASSIMILATE into our Culture, Adopt out Value System, and carry forward with our Constitutional Principles, can AMERICA (& FREEDOM) make it. In 50 years, European peoples will be the minority. AMERICA (if it is still called that by then) with be mostly Arab Muslims and Mexicans. History has proven to us that they tend to RESIST adopting our AMERICAN Cultural Values. (In the old days, the Mormons would have also played a part in the demographics increases due to their large families. But many now-a-days are not as prolific as they once were.)

        Will AMERICA still adhere to the CONSTITUTION then with these new demographics? Or will she become ruled under some oppressive Tyrant BECAUSE the Immigrants resisted our Constitutional values?

    • Angel

      Jeryl D…that is EXACTLY it. They are looking for the masses to control. It is a global takeover of the Illuminated Ones (Illuminati) and they think the progressives are on their side when in fact, it came about in the 1930′s to “do away with” inferior races which was the beginning of planned parenthood. Who does Planned Parenthood target the most? Blacks and then? This is why the government does nothing. They are being used by the federal government to advance their agenda and can’t even see it for their lower IQ and lack of education.

      They let their emotions stand in the way of their thinking. Having them here illegally, with their fraudulent practices of identity theft, social theft, and their flagrant disregard for the laws, only serves to take American jobs, make America fall to her knees (which is happening at a very rapid pace), making it so Americans cannot even put back into the system as they have no jobs for the cheap illegal labor, then in turn, more government entitlements which result in even more government control A vicious circle that never ends until A) the Lord comes back or B) the Illuminati is in complete global control and has depopulated the inferior races leaving the rest slaves to their whims. God help us all!

    • Allan

      I think the psychological makeup of liberasl renders them more susceptible to peer pressure. Combine that with “education”, and you have a dangerous brew.

      • Rod the Other

        I think what makes them suseptable to peer pressure is their desire to show how (in their minds) superior their “social justice” beliefs are and how morally superior they believe liberalism to be.

        It makes me laugh then gets me mad when I think about how Liberal politicians are able to “Play” the emotions and sympothy strings of the Liberal voters with the same old tired rhetoric. They claim to be “all about fighting for the little guy” and “we’re going to fight for the working family”. All the while the politician is acting in ways that are counter to the voters best interest. Take for instance how cities that have been democrat controlled for decades comprise something like 18 of the poorest 20 cities.
        See this link: http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/witterpitters/54877

        Now those same democrates (other wise known as Congress) are passing healthcare legislation that the country doesn’t want! I beleive even more are against Amenisty (Otherwise known as Comprehensive Immigration Reform) and yet the liberals in Congress are pushing to have them legalized!….Why…because they get a larger voting base.

  • Bruce

    I just ordered my T-shirt from here in Minneapolis and will wear it proudly! Good old American ingenuity at work! Viva! Jim Clark!

    And as far as that moron Warheit…well, let me just say that he is one of the “idiots” that Glenn Beck referred to in his book.

    • JeffH

      …well said Bruce and a loud “kudos” goes out to Jim Clark and” viva los 1070″.

    • bp

      I would order one, too, if it was in ENGLISH! Long Live the U.S.A.!!!

  • Bambi

    “But according to Mr. Warheit, we don’t need any of that. Forget any evidence; ignore any arguments. Why, if the Court cites the amendment in a ruling, then it must be legal, proper, and oh-so constitutional.” Using that reasoning, I see no reason they should be removing any mention of God from our government. All along, people have had to swear, “So help me God”, when going in front of a judge. And they can stop talking about separation of church and state, it was never in there. They’ve been mutilating our constitution for years. I’m sure our forefathers are miles from their graves, from all the spinning.

    • Dave

      There is also no mention in the constitution that you can’t urinate on someone elses home. Does that mean we should allow that too? Do you really think the founders of this great nation wanted this to be a Christian only country? A majority of people here were Christian and since you couldn’t swear on your devotion to a king or something they had you swear on a bible because it seemed effective. It wasn’t because Christian ideology was supposed to be intertwined with politics. Quite the contrary. Don’t confuse the influence of the majority with the will of the country. I’m not Christian but I’ll agree that the PC thing goes too far sometimes. It’s hard to draw the right line though so people do the best they can. Why do they do it? Out of respect for their fellow countrymen. Every citizen of this country should be respected equally and feel welcome. I think sometimes people get carried away with the their precise interpretation of the Constitution in the same way that following the bible as a fundamentalist can be misleading. It is a fact that the writers of the constitution knew they couldn’t possibly cover everything in this one document. They knew it would have to be left open to some interpretation. As for Chip Wood, by the way great name, it’s funny how every thing he doesn’t agree is illegal. It’s unconstitutional when it’s not their precisely and if it’s an ammendment well then that must have happened illegally because he knows exactly what this country needs and what the founding fathers meant. Also, does anybody here notice that he always steers things towards gold and his how to books that he sells. Like any good entrepeneur he is trying to influence you into buying what he’s selling by feeding into your emotions.

      • Another Voice

        Dave, you hit the nail smack dab on the head!

      • dmp says :

        DAVE/ANOTHER VOICE :

        DAVE, IF YOU COME IN THIS HOUSE AND INSULT THE PEOPLE LIVING HERE, YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE AND YOU ” ANOTHER VOICE,” IF YOU WANT TO VOICE YOU OPINION BY INSULTING THE OWNER OF THIS HOUSE; YOU TOO ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. CHIP IS A VERY PATRIOTIC MAN ANY ONE CAN BE. HE DOES NOT WRITE HERE TO SELL A BOOK TO YOU. HE WRITES TO GIVE ENLIGHTENMENT TO THOSE WHO ARE CLOSED-MINDED AND BEING BLIND-SIDED LIKE YOU TWO OBAMATIC FANATICS. SO IF YOU HAVE NOTHING GOOD TO SAY; ZIP YOUR MOUTH AND GO TO WHERE YOU BELONG. WE DO NOT WANT TO HEAR YOUR LIBERAL AND OBAMATIC STYLE OF LANGUAGE. THEY ARE FULL OF LIES AND FLOWERY WORDS. WE DON’T BELIEVE YOU LIKE THE ” KENYAN BORN ” SOCIALIST DICTATOR “.

      • DaveH

        And what are you trying to sell, Dave? Apathy? We should just sit down, shut up, and never question authority? You would please any potential dictator.

      • barb

        Okay, here goes. I don’t normally reply to “blogs”. As an aside, I just also happen to be a LEGAL, naturalized U.S.A. citizen. However, my point is this. There’s good news and then there’s good news. The United States of America is a CHRISTIAN nation.(Thanks to David Barton for keeping the memory of our Founding Fathers alive!)That’s the GOOD NEWS. If you don’t like it, the other good news is; your American passport is honored in almost every other country in the world. ‘Bye!
        (Let Me Help You Pack:http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=x2G3wGVAnlQ)

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Barb,

        Kudos! Superbly stated…..exactly the point!

        Fed Up Gal

      • http://none Alex

        barb–you are an idiot. This is not a Christian nation. Would Christ drop atomic bombs on sleeping babies TWICE in THREE days? No, of course not. Would Christ genuflect to the Evil Dollar or the flag of our Evil Country? Of course not. Would Christ support the private ownership of assault weapons? Of course not. Can you “denaturalize” your fake citinzenship and get the heck out of here?

      • DaveH

        Alex,
        If everybody was Christ-like, we wouldn’t need weapons. But you Liberals who can rationalize stealing money from those who legally acquired it and giving it to those who didn’t, prove that we do indeed need weapons to protect us from evil people who can rationalize any amount of immoral behavior.

      • bp

        Evil flag? Evil Dollar? Evil Country? You’re against private ownership? What are YOU doing here? Go live overseas for a spell (funny how no one is sneaking OUT of the U.S.A.)and see if you don’t come back a Patriot. While there, brush up on your English! Yes, we are a prosperous, Christian nation! And the impeachment of the imposter is imminent!

      • linnie

        Alex
        You should be greatful that you are here, than in Europe (Muslim country) Maybe you should go there and see their freedoms
        they would have you in prison or dead for speaking about their country as Evil.
        We are a Christian Country and our Founding Fathers were very smart men, not racist, not evil.

        linnie

      • http://?? Joe H.

        lex,
        I suggest you go to live in Iran for about two years, if you last that long. Then stand on the corner on any street in that wonderful country and talk against their form of government. Really! Please do us a favor and do that! PLEASE!!!

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        I enjoy the asian cultures including Japan. But if you are going to bring up the bomb let’s not forget that the Japanese butchered 200,000 Chinese civilians along with the most brutal torture practiced the world has ever seen or will ever see. The same most likely would have been in store for America. Wake up Alex and stop the unjustified hatred for America. A lot of American babies lost their father in that war.

      • TIME

        Alex, From your post alone I see your deluded by perversions of pretzel logic, Thus I grant you the Darwin Award for your efforts.

        The Mental Midgets seem to be growing here in leaps and bounds. So I am sure that more Darwin Awards will be granted very soon.

        I think I will start a new method for these awards, It will be called As the “lacking gray matter turns.” Hey a new Soap for day time viewers!

      • American Citizen

        Have you ever heard the expression, “War is hell”?

      • rwnut

        God and America…..There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a universal language pervading them all,having one meaning;they affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation. These are not individual sayings,declarations of private persons:they are organic utterances;they speak the voice of the entire people….that “THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION”.
        U.S. Supreme Court,
        Church of the Holy Trinity vs.U.S.,1892

      • dmp says :

        ALEX :

        YOU ARE INSIDE THE HOUSE OF A CHRISTIAN; UNDER THE CHRISTIAN COUNTRY; THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. YOU ARE INSIDE A WEBSITE OF A CHRISTIAN NETWORK. IF YOU THINK AMERICA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION, THEN YOU ARE THINKING OF YOUR OWN RELIGION THAT IS ” MUSLIM?” OUR FOREFATHERS WERE ALL CHRISTIANS AND IT’S HARD TO THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO ARRIVED HERE AND LIVE HERE THINK AMERICA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION JUST BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES ARE NOT. YOU CAN NOT CHANGE AMERICA LIKE YOUR OWN RELIGION, BECAUSE ” WE THE PEOPLE ” WILL STOP YOU FOR SURE. WE ARE WARNING YOU TO STOP MOCKING OUR BELOVED COUNTRY OR ELSE WE WILL DEPORT YOU TO WHERE YOU BELONG.

      • Samuel

        Alex, you appear to have never read the Bible. You say that Christ would not kill sleeping babies. Of course He would. He promised his love to anyone who would follow and obey Him. He further promised death to anyone who wouldn’t. Then He gave us time to choose. Since you don’t even know this much about Him and instead have invoked His Name to foment your lies, I know what He will do with you when He returns and claims His Kingdom.

      • patriot

        Humm………..since you are asking what the Christ would do……would he call another an “idiot”? “first remove the log in your own eye, before you offer to remove the speck in your brothers eye”!

      • mary high

        DAVE, I CAN TELL YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GOD. GOD DESTROYED HE WORLD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH EVIL IN THE WORLD AND THE ONLY PEOPLE HE SAVED WERE THOSE WHO BELIEVED AND LISTENED TO HIM, SUCH AS NOAH AND HIS FAMILY. REMEMBER WHEN HE HAD DAVID KILL THE GIANT GOLIATH? REMEMBER WHEN HE DESTROYED THE ARMIES OF THE EVIL PHARAOH? REMEMBER WHAT HE DID WHEN THE PHAROAO WOULD NOT LISTEN TO HIM THROUGH MOSES? PEACE IS NOT THE ABSENCE OF WAR. PEACE IS THE ABSENCE OF EVIL. GOD DOES WHAT HE FEELS IS JUST AND RIGHT. DID HE NOT INVENT ALL? DO YOU KNOW MORE THAN GOD NOW? READ YOUR BIBLE AGAIN, ESPECIALLY THE WORDS OF JESUS THE JEW. DO NOT FOLLOW BLINDLY BUT PRAY FOR KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. IF YOU DO NOT, YOU WILL NOT KNOW GOD. YOU ARE ONE OF THE BLIND FOLLOWING THE BLIND. A FOLLOWER OF JESUS THE JEW AND A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. PRAY MY MAN, PRAY FOR GUIDANCE FOR YOU ARE ON THE WRONG ROAD.

      • guest

        In reply to ‘christian nation’s. don’t drop bombs on sleeping babies. Yes it is tragic our country used such destruction. What ppl. forget is Japan started that ugly war.Those caught under the japanese occupation were tortured..starved.the treatment of prisoners was horrific. And it would have continued had we not done something. Do you not remember or know that the usa WARNED JAPAN? jAPAN was duley warned that if they did not cease in their mayhem and destruction the usa would use this bomb.The japanese made a choice and ignored the warning. And what nation after winning a war goes in the defeated country and GIVE AID AND COMFORT? We did! Japan after the war thrived because of that aid and comfort.When ever i hear how other’s denigrate our country because of the bomb..i never hear the other side of the coin. The immense suffering of our ppl at the hands of the japanese. What were we suppose to do..allow the war to continue at the expense of more american..british lives?
        Illegal aliens? Those who wish to let them in are not the ones feeding and housing them.They always insist others pay for these ppl..never them! Those who want to allow them into our country..why don’t YOU OFFER your home and dinner table to them? I have to laugh at the obama’s..michelle obama claimed that america was a mean country and also americans need to give up their piece of the pie so others can have more. Yet when she was working at a chicago hospital she was responsible for turning away those who could not pay!And while we are to give up so much..they refuse to do so themselves. Their own family lives in poverty. I just can’t understand the obama’s and the micheal morries of the world. They are worth millions yet refuse to give up their money and houses and food.

      • Brad

        Dave, that is really a brainless argument. For one thing, we don’t have groups of people running around shouting “Urinate on people’s houses! Urinate on people’s houses!” And if we are not to precisely interpret the Constitution, then why have one? As a matter of fact, why have any law at all if we are not to precisely follow it? That would in very fact, nullify any law or document of law. WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS TODAY! Politicians from the president down who choose to ignore the law, let alone “interpret” it are ruining this country.

        You, Dave miss the obvious point: To ratify a constitutional amendment requires ratification by the states. NOT A US Supreme Court ruling(s)!

      • kate8

        Well said, Brad. I do so appreciate a voice of reason.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        Actually Dave I disagree with just about everything you said. For one pissing on other peoples’ property is covered in the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. The Federalist Papers covers a lot and there are other works that you have just not been interested in reading because you prefer your own interpretation to that of the ‘Founders’. God is mentioned just about everywhere including the Bill of Rights and The Supreme Court building. Everyone should own some gold and if you bought it a few years back you would have tripled your money.

      • daughterofthenewamericanrevolution

        Bruce, on Sunday I watched the idiotic Bill Maher because he had Tea Party guests. The former guest is one they call “Dr. Doom” Dr. Nouriel Roubini who is a professor of economics at NYU I believe. He predicted in 2006 the coming housing bust, the hedge fund scams, the coming recession, etc. His advice was funny but not – “instead of buying gold, buy Spam – you can’t eat gold”! Although I detest Spam, I get the meaning. Just a little nugget of something worthwhile from Maher!

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        I like your name and I also like spam. I can remember years back someone laughing at me for eating it. He said he never saw any one eating spam before but knew there had to be people who ate it. I do not feel it will come down to eating spam for survival but America is on the path to self destruction with Obama. If our bond rating drops like predicted who knows how bad it could get.

      • American Citizen

        You didn’t mention there is an “official” minister who opens Congress’s sessions with prayer. There is no strict separation of church and state in the Constitution. It only says the Federal Government cannot force us all into a religion approved by the state. Saying a prayer is not religion as such. Every one who has faith in God prays. If you don’t, close your ears. Nobody is forcing you to listen. We are allowed to pray anywhere as the First Amendment states, “the free practice thereof.”
        Oh, by the way, atheism is a religion. It’s a belief in the non-existence of God. Practice it to your heart’s content. Just don’t force it on the rest of us which is what you all try to do.

      • Mike In MI

        American Citizen – You are so-o-o-o right, and “Selah” (Which means: “Consider these words.”).

        If any of you thinks atheism isn’t a religion you need some educating. Years ago, I considered myself one one of those beasts. And, that’s exactly what I was – worse than an animal, actually. Why, worse than? Well, if humans are supposed to be sentient beings then you must force yourself into an unconscious or semi-conscious state (oblivious to a whole lot of stuff going on in the world) in order to hold such an egotistical opinion of yourself and those like you. No doubt about it in my mind anymore, it’s pure selfishness and self- worship. In my experience and from what I see in those who practice atheism they are the most evangelical, devoted, self-glorifying slugs you’ll ever run into, as a rule.

        But, thankfully, things happened in my life that bounced me out of my mental torpor that I HAD to get some answers for. It took a wartime experience to shake me up. But shake me it did. In order to get the answers I had to admit that the science teaching I had been indoctrinated with was not sufficient to deal with all the matters that one can run into in the course of living. I knew that if I didn’t get the answers I needed there was absolutely NO reason to live. I got really quite ready to consider suicide as a better option than living if there was no reason or purpose for life. If everything was just a bunch of dead physics and chemistry and que sara sara (sp?) pain, sufferring, fighting and encroaching misery then the hell with it. “Atheism” boiled down to that for me.

        At just the right moment someone asked me to come to a Biblical fellowship with them and I accepted – against my deeply considered judgment. The teacher was truely a man of God who spoke directly to my needs and deepest thoughts like I was the only one in that group and we were having a one-on-one talk. He showed me the way out of the mess I had come up against.

        I could have walked out, walked away, refused the offer God extended or spit in His eye ’cause at that point it really made no sense given the madness I had been inculcated with. But, I decided to stick around with this Jesus Christ stuff and see where it might lead.

        I’m still here learning, being blessed and enjoying the difference. You libs ought to try it. Anything’s better than what you’ve got now (I’ve been there.)

        At just the right time

      • http://aol wayne a

        dave,i never seen sure a long comment that said nothing!talkling about spinning your wheels and going nowhere! maybe just a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth.

      • Jana

        Dave didn’t have to use the aside that “He isn’t a Christian.” That is quite obvious. It’s also quite obvious he doesn’t have or use common sense. That however is not a surprise coming from such a liberal.

      • meteorlady

        Dave – I suggest that you open your house up to illegals. That you support them because they need “help”, that you send their children to school at your expense, that you pay for their medical bills, that you pay for their food and clothing. After all they will work around your house cleaning and doing yard work because you don’t want to.

        People from Mexico and South American know exactly what they are doing when they cross our borders. They are embarking on criminal activity otherwise they would not sneak around in the dessert. I am sick to death of supporting the world when we can’t even educate our children property anymore. I am sick to death of seeing my taxes go up and up for social programs that are bloated and riddled with waste and fraud. If you like that I suggest that you head for Mexico – oh wait, their immigration laws are too strict and you won’t get in.

      • WEM

        Yes…Why are ready to support ILLEGAL ALIEN? Citizenship should be given to them, they are born in this Country to parents without residency, Social security should be given, free health care should be given…yet let me share something with you: My ex-wife a born citizen of this Country could NOT GET social security benefits, was not given disability, eventhou she is phsysicaly disabled to work, only because she DID NOT WORK FOR A MINIMUM OF 10 years? And yet we are so concerned about illegal Alien’s rights?
        The same issues concern Retired folks. I work in the Medical profession. on a daily basis you should see how many folks can not afford the prescribed treatment becasue the “medications” are too expensive to buy yet… lets give free health care to ILLEGAL ALIENs.
        Do you not wonder what is happening????

      • Silence DoGood II

        You are sooooo right. God Bless America. p.s. the next time we talk to the man upstairs ( no. I am not referring to the CHOSEN ONE, Barack Hussein OBAMA ) we should ask him to grant Barry ” O ” the presence of mind to remember where his momma put his BIRTH CERTIFICATE !

      • WarriorH

        Everyone here is missing the point. You can’t send national guardsman down to police the borders. They aren’t union!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        WarriorH,
        Yeah, but they would cross the illegal mexican picket lines!!!!

      • George E

        I’d bet the SEIU is planning to try to unionize our military folks. After all, service personnel are employees of the state……ugh. God forbid that ever happens!

      • Beepster

        The North American continent, of which the United States is a part, was basically settled by foreigners from UK, France, Spain. Now, these countries were Christian. Is it any wonder that Christianity is the predominate religion? Is it any wonder that laws are more involved with Christian teachings? The vast majority of the people in the North American continent has teachings involving Christianity. Whether you are a Christian or nonreligious doesn’t really matter to how laws are made or enforced.

      • http://none Alex

        Why doesn’t Chip Wood rail against the illegally “ratified” Second Amendment—surely the Floundering Fathers had no idea that it would be used to allow every nutjob in the country to own assault rifles and other non-defense weapons. Eye say let’s overturn the Second Amendment and help save lives in this nation, we can join the rest of the civilized world.

      • Allan

        Without weapons, we’d have become royal subjects. I’m not sure England is encouraging more of those right now given its economic problems. The founding fathers (your term “floundering fathers” is hate speech to me) supported personal possession of weapons as a defense against the tyranny of government.

      • Cathy

        Allan, you are one of the few who understand the Second Amendment. It was put in place to protect us from a tyrannical government, you know, like the one we have now.

        Hitler took away the guns, and then look what happened.

        Also, the Japanese did not invade the US during WWII because they knew we had guns. I’m not making this one up. They admitted to this fact.

        When will the anti-gun idiots understand that if you take away the guns, the criminals will still have them? Hint: guns are illegal in Mexico. Also…the countries that have “outlawed” guns have experienced sky-high crime rates. Statistics do not lie. Get it?

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        Allan calling our ‘founding fathers’ ‘flounding fathers’ is hate speech to me also. I am glad you pointed that out as it shows how low some people have sunk and gives the rest of us an better idea what we are up against. There are people out there who truely hate what this country is and the principles is was founded on. I am noticing on this site that the left also hates Christianity along with it. They seem to champion free speech up until the point it disagrees with their political goals.

      • Right Wing

        Allan, you sound mildly intelligent but a bit disgruntled with America. Do yourself a favor and read some history. I know the constitution has some big words in it but there is another book called the dictionary that serves to “translate” the meaning of larger words into digestible bits for you. For a real teaser…try the Federalist Papers. They provide a greater understanding of the founders intent. It is almost like a lesson in civil lineage which might make you feel a bit more…American. Of course you may be too set in your ways to truly appreciate this great country but don’t be discouraged. You can apply for a Visa to travel abroad and explore new countries that better fit your ideal. After deciding to settle in to your new country you can then join arms with your new countrymen and feel good that you left America in the dust.

      • Allan

        You call yourself Right Wing? I said weapons were necessary for the birth (and maintenance) of this country. I also said “floundering fathers” is hate speech. If you disagree with those concepts, you are the one who is obviously unhappy with America.

      • Right Wing

        Alan sorry about that…my comment was directed at Alex.

      • bp

        Alex,
        For the second time, what ARE you doing here? “Floundering Fathers?” Please read David Barton learn their true history, no longer taught in government-run schools. Without the United States of America, there WOULD BE no civilized world (think WWII)!!! May God Save HIS nation.

      • Jana

        bp,
        What’s he even doing living in the United States? It obviously disgusts him to do so. He is sure showing his colors, YELLOW.

      • Rod the Other

        Alex…
        I find that people that follow your train of though (usually liberals/Progressives) fall into 2 categories:
        #1 ignorant and uninformed, but well intentioned.
        or
        #2 pushing an agenda.

        The fact is that were gun control laws are the strictest, crime is the highest. Enacting gun control laws only serves to provide a criminal with a safer victim to molest.

        http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp

      • TIME

        Alex,
        See this is why you won the Darwin Award, Please do keep up the mindless post’s it really highlites your mental ability’s.

        Whats your shoe size again. Size – 6? Wow a IQ of 6. Good for ya.

      • rwnut

        Alex….”Those who pound their guns to plow,will plow for those who do not”. Thomas Jefferson.
        Alex,as long as I have my guns,you can’t make me plow for you!(or YO MAMA OBAMA)

      • Mike In MI

        Alex – Poor little punki-headed zombie, hm, m, m.

        The day they allow Hillary to bring the U.N. Small Arms Treaty to the Senate and then to Obama for his signature your life is going to take a notable downturn. If we “join the civilized world” as you envision it, the only right you will be given is the right to agree with whoever is in power…or else.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Alex,
        Yes, let’s join the “civilized” world, where political scientist Rudy Rummel estimates that the 15 worst regimes during the 20th century killed 151 million of their own citizens, which works out to 1.5 million victims per year. That would be 151 million mostly unarmed citizens.
        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Silence DoGood II

        It follows the playbook, every time an issue that is on the socialist agenda is exposed, the rank and file Democrats attack the 2nd. Amendment. If’OBAMA-ALEX’ wants to give up his ability to defend himself, that is his RIGHT. If I do not want to give up MY ability to defend myself against all enemies, FOREIGN OR DOMESTIC, that is MY right . I will not join the slaves of the WORLD ! If ALEX desires to be enslaved by his OBAMA BUDDIES, leave the U.S. for one of the countries that has a ban on the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS ( how about KENYA ? ) What does ALEX’s reply have to do with ILLEGAL ALIENS invading the U.S. ????

      • Allan

        So what you’re rationalizing is that individuals (and the supreme court) should support the provisions they agree with and interpret the ones they don’t. The Constitution is a legal document. Words matter. As for “everyone should be respected equally”, legal citizens may start with equal rights, but to be respected for actions and opinions, you have to earn it.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy

        DAVE, funny you should ask that question because the answer is ‘YES’, they did want this country to be a ‘Christian’ country. But don’t believe me, do some reading on all the founders writings and you will have no iota of a doubt that is what they wanted and tried to do by requiring every public school to teach religion, ‘Christian’ religion, but no certain denomination. Dave how can you liberals be so ignorant about this fact when you claim to know everything about our country and what the majority wants, knows, and needs. You truly showed how ignorant you really are by asking a question that anyone with a minutia amount of knowledge about the history of the beginning of this country and what the founding fathers wanted and tried to do for us to enable this country to survive. Unfortunately you liberals have destroyed much of their beliefs and the ‘Constitution’ which they wrote. If you really want your question answered (don’t believe what I say, because I don’t believe what you say), then purchase the book ‘The 5000 Year Leap’ by author W. Cleon Skousen about the 28 principles the founding fathers used to write the ‘Constitution’. When I started reading it I couldn’t put it down. A delightful book about the founding fathers and their reasoning of how and why they wrote the ‘Constitution’, which I read from cover to cover. It is well documented by foot notes from all the founding father’s papers that they wrote for the posterity of the people of this country. You can purchase the paper back version for $5.95 plus shipping from WND on the internet. Please do it so you can become well informed and not ask these stupid questions.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        There were a few that were Deists who believed in a higher power but were not sure about the details. Even they could see the common sense taught is the Bible and embraced those parts of it. Much of the Old Testament is about political guidelines. There certainly was never the anti-Christian sentiment you see coming from the left today.

      • Mick for thought

        Thomas Jefferson was not a christian and he authored the constitution.

      • http://none Alex

        Tom Jefferson was WORSE than a Christian: he owned human beings, betraying all the pretty words he wrote about freedom and equality. Jefferson, like all slaveowners, is being raked over the coals in hell as you read this.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        Thomas Jefferson was one of the greatest ment to ever live. People seem to forget that slavery was an excepted practice in the world for thousands of years. Thomas Jefferson, who inherited the slaves he had from his parents, and others at that time were some of the first slave owners who began to question the justification of slavery. Up until that time only slaves questioned slavery. England also had white slaves and America had indentured white servants. Many wanted slavery outlawed but stettled for a ban on the importation of slavery in the constitution in order to get it radified by the South. Thomas Jefferson did have slaves who looked he treated well. They looked up to him and admired him. Maybe the most brutal part of slavery was to sell some and split up the family. Thomas Jefferson did not do that although it wasn’t benefical to keep more than you owned. Jefferson laid the ground work for abolishishing slavery in America. Your hatred for America clouds your judgement Alex.

      • Mick for thought

        So were many of the constitutional congress. We were talking about the supposed christian base to our constitution.

      • Save America Susie

        The fact that every president (except Obama, & possibly Jefferson who was not wild about organized religion, but still believed in God) has prayed in a government meeting says something about a Christian basis for our great nation.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        I think part of the hatred the left has for America is that they have been miseducated. James Madison is the father of the Constitution. Jefferson was a minister to France at that time. Mick you should try to have an understanding of what you are trying to critize. Jefferson was a deist but unlike you he was not a Christian hater. There were many things in the Christian Bible he liked and wrote a book about it.

      • Mick for thought

        Where did you get christian hater from anything I said.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        Mick I only know of Franklin and Jefferson as Deist. The debate about religion was more along the lines of what Christian denomination you were from. There were a few Jews in that time period but there was never anti-Christian like you see today as 99% of the population was Christian.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        I should have directed my ant-Christian comment to Alex. My apologies Mick and thank you for taking the time to correct me on that.

      • Mike In MI

        Bruce D. – That is a down-right decent, wonderful thing to do. It’s one of the great things I love about this site. The majority are mannerly, reasonable, temperate folks who understand communication takes personal discipline and concern about being clearly understood. Words are important; and most take time to use the education and decorum they’ve been taught to keep or make things right. Blessings on those of you who do.

      • Rod the Other

        DAVE…I have long been a beleiver that if you want a FOOL to expose him/her-self, all you need to do is let that fool talk. And with the opening line of your post, youv’e placed a neon sign over your head that says “OPEN FOR BIZNUS” (the incorrect spelling is intentional).

        Quote,”There is also no mention in the constitution that you can’t urinate on someone elses home. Does that mean we should allow that too? Do you really think the founders of this great nation wanted this to be a Christian only country? A majority of people here were Christian and since you couldn’t swear on your devotion to a king or something they had you swear on a bible because it seemed effective.

        There’s no mention in the Constitution that you can’t urinate on someone elses home…”. WHAT!!!! I have certain Inalienable right, namely the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (which by the way first read, “property”). And inherent to these rights, I have the right to defend that property. In accordance with that right, if someone were to urinate on my home I assure you that I would defend my property and that individual just might wind up with their little buddy shot off.

        “Do you really think the founders of this great nation wanted this to be a Christian only country?”
        The Founders never made such statements, or sought to exclude other religions, but most of them were some version of Christian and based most of their thinking in Christian values. But, they also didn’t have a problem with calling a duck a duck. Like today. While it may be true that not all Muslims are terroists, it is true that all terroists are Muslim. (and I’m talking about within the last decade, don’t waste you time with the IRA).

        “they had you swear on a bible because it seemed effective”….Because it seemed effective?????? WHAT!? Do you make this up as you go along or is there a website your getting this from? For believers swearing on a bible was no different than swearing on your soul. Believers aren’t willing to gamble thier souls!

      • Richard Marqua

        1. Someone said that this was not me to be a christian nation. Evidentually his grasp of history was lost long ago. Religion was one of the priorities of the day. The Constitutions separtation of Church and State was to prevent another Church of England from occurig in the US. Other tha tht religion and the faith in God was a top priority.
        2. Illegal immigration. Immigration is the lawful entry into this country through major points of immagration following the laws of immagration. These are invaders, not immagrants. Look at the definition of both. The same porblems affected Rome in the same way. Only then it was the gulls, tutons, franks, etc. These people came into rome in the manner as the mexicans. Cheep labor, manpower, etc… In the end these groups, rather than assimulating with Rome, kept separate. When the countries bordering Rome finally moved on Rome, they had their cells already intact to open from withing. Red Dawn was a movie that follows that theme.
        3. The powers to be do not wat to change the flow of illegals into this country for they see votes to keep them in power. I call this high treason.
        4. This is a mute conversation for those that believe the illegals are in fact immagrants and should be allowed to enter the US in any way possible will never see it any other way until it is their family member who gets killed or worse as a result. By then, it wlii be to late.

      • Silence DoGood II

        TO OBAMA DAVE; This country will survive the illiterate ramblings of the ill informed such as you. The Constition was written as to protect the CITIZENS from the GOVERNMENT ! It took a while, but the domestic enemies ( liberal, marxist socailist ) have managed to circumvent the INTENT of the CONSTITUTION which was to SPECIFICALLY DEFINE the powers that were delegated to the GOVERNMENT. The 14th Amendment was not written to allow the socialist to manipulate IMMIGRATION to gain VOTES….. OBAMA-DAVE, WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL ALIEN DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND ???? Maybe you and BARRY, along with Harry and Nancy should do lunch tomorrow.

    • ml

      You might say “who are you” to comment, living safely in Connecticut as far from Arizona as you can get! But, my friend living in Phoenix has had to install metal bars on her windows to protect her from the bands of Mexican marauders who get intoxicated and raid her neighborhood nightly, stealing and looting. She can’t even sell her home and move away from this toxic danger! Arizona owes this protection to its law abiding, taxpaying citizens. BRAVO Arizona!!!

      • James Andrews

        You guys hit it right on the nose……the Feds are NOT doing their job. Their primary job is the defense of the nation, and the security of our borders. What is happening in Arizona is sad, but they are doind what they need and have to do, in order to try to protect their citizens and their way of life. And as far as people having to put bars in their windows, I can’t blame them. Fortunately, Arizona is a state that still protects and upholds its citizens second Amendment Rights as well-so they can own firearms to defend themselves and their property should the need arise. This country is in quite a mess right now, and things have gotten too “politically correct”. It is time to turn it around, while we still can!

      • Matt

        No human being is illegal, no matter how much rascism there is against them. The United States quota laws need changing, anyone should be able to be any where they please, as long as they pay their fair share of taxes.

      • DaveH

        That’s great Matt. I assume you will soon be putting an ad in your local classified to let the illegals know they can live in your house if they please as long as they pay a fair rent.

      • Claire

        DaveH–I am with you on this. Good grief is all I can say.

      • Save America Susie

        Dave H, Touche!!!

      • Save America Susie

        P.S. Having no laws regarding this is akin to anarchy.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Matt,
        s your last name Laurer??? He’s another liberal idiot! You sound just like him. I suggest you look up the gumball theory on immigration!!

      • JC

        Oh Look! The “Race Card” again.
        Look Matt, feel free topost a sign on your lawn welcoming all of those legal human beings to help themselves to everything you own.
        I’m sure you won’t mind being robbed blind and possibly murdered by people who have no respect for American law…in fact I’m sure you’d welcome the opportunity and so would your wife and daughters.
        It ain’t about “race” man! It’s about justice. Wake up!

      • Brad

        Matt, you not only “choked on a gnat” but you retched on a molecule! Yes, no human is “illegal,” but the human’s CITIZENSHIP in a country can very well be! (Just ask any nation–except the US, of course.)

        And please tell us, Matt–how many of these “non-illegal” humans of yours are really going to “pay their fair share?”

        Chip, I’m rolling my eyes with you and trying to be as civil as I can reading comments that lack gray matter.

      • airangel

        uh Matt, you would be wrong…anyone NOT from that country naturally or pledged to stand for and with that country through LEGAL due process is ILLEGAL!…This is not just Americas laws but that of Mexico, Germany, France, Russia, etc…you name it you are ILLEGAL IN ANY COUNTRY BUT YOUR OWN!

      • Citizen Gram

        Well Matt, that is the issue – you said it. It is about being a US citizen and being honored as a human being is a broader discussion. The law (immigration law) is in place to protect US citizens and we need protection. There is a way for those who are not US citizens to become part of our culture – yes our culture while bringing their heritage along. The point is to become a contributing member of US society and not a burden to it. If our borders were completely open, our way of life as a free country would be gone forever.

        This is not about honoring human beings in general, it IS all about becoming a contributing member of American society where human beings are honored, and US citizens are honored and protected. This is about doing things right and that is becoming legal US citizens. GO ARIZONA and other concerned states.

      • http://aol wayne a

        matt,thats the biggest bunch of crap i ever heard!what do you mean no human being is illegal.WEBSTERS RIVERSIDE DICTIONARY:ILLEGAL-PROHIBITED BY LAW.so what part of the definition doesn’t fit the illegals streaming across our borders breaking our law?and people have a right to live anywhere they want? lol matt are you an adult? try going to live in another country and don’t do it legally and see how many yrs you spend in prison.without controling our borders the US couldn’t survive.how long do you think it will be before terrorist cross our open borders with dirty bombs or even worse, nuclear bombs!maybe we’ll get lucky and one will be your neighbor.as far as paying taxes,the latest study said 79% of the illegals PAY NO TAXES!

      • meteorlady

        Matt – how old are you? 12?

      • marvin

        matt what you said is as long as i pay my fair share of tax i can go any where i want hell i been misguided all my life you mean i can just go to the white house and stay for free if i pay my tax, but it is more likly the i would go to the nut house or jail or grave

      • Todd

        Good answer Matt. When you have no logic to support your viewpoint, toss the racism label out, that way you can not only show your hypocrisy, you can also appear enlightened to the liberal minority.

      • bp

        Where do you come from, Disneyland? Try entering any other country illegally, demand that they speak, and interpret everything into, your language, “sponsor” all your aunts, uncles and cousins, and see what happens!!!

      • Allan

        Since virtually every country doesn’t just let people in if they’re willing to pay taxes, I’d say your idea is completely unrealistic, like many liberal ideas.

      • American Citizen

        Just try to emigrate to any country you want to and see the hoops you have to jump through in order to become a citizen. Every country has borders they protect except the U.S. Our government refuses to do its job, its main reason for being.

      • Silence DoGood II

        Matt is a typical product of the liberal government education machine that is undermining our LIBERTIES and FREEDOM by corrupting the minds of the young and vulnerable with the goal of creating GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS ( SLAVES ). I moved away from California because my family and I could not tolerate the violent racist and arrogant behavior ( ever hear of THE EME, NUESTRA FAMILIA or the TEXAS SYNDICATE Matt???? ) of these ” good people who are INVADING our country so they can find a better life “. In MANY areas of California, the American Culture has been totally displaced( by A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY) by the masses of ILLEGAL MEXICANS that flooded the state during the CLINTON REGIME and have no intentions at all of becoming AMERICANS!!!! Instead, these people have flooded into areas and have TAKEN CONTROL of large cities ( a Prime example is LOS ANGELES ) through sheer population numbers. These arrogant, violent ILLEGAL MEXICANS.. These CRIMINALS destroy every area that they overpopulate. With the U.S. TAXPAYER FORCED to provide these ILLEGALS with housing, education, welfare checks ( CASH ), food stamps, social security,workers comp. benefits, free legal assistance to break our immagration laws and many more benefits that have bankrupted the U.S. and States economies. THe ILLEGALS MUST BE DEPORTED NOW!!!!!

      • Tom Davis

        You ar simply nitpicking Matt. Every human individual who crosses into The United States of America ‘illegally’ is an illegal alien and in common parlance is ‘ILLEGAL’ andshould be captured, jailed, given a hearing and then tossed out on his illegal butt. Thank God for people like Governor Brewer.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        ml,

        I hope for your friend’s sake and that of every legal citizen in Arizona….that the state is successful. I’m in NM and could not agree with you more! Too bad our current [NM] governor (Bill “Hollywood” Richardson) and our current Atty General (Gary King) doesn’t have the courage to do the same as Arizona is doing.

        I wish Arizona would start deporting all illegals to U.S. states that are promoting boycotting Arizona and any other state in the country that is trying to play the “shame” game. In fact, I think it’s shameful that those in non-border states have the audacity to criticize a state for upholding what is already “Federal” law. Wonder how they would feel if their own states had to cover all the costs (financial and otherwise) they expect border states to cover….so they can continue to look “supportive” of human rights….give me a break….guess they don’t think Arizona’s “legal” citizens are entitled to the same rights they want afforded on illegal residents.

        Fed Up Gal

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        On second thought…..maybe AZ should just deport the illegals to Matt’s parents’ house (seeing how Matt’s only 12 like MeteorLady suggested)…..and bill Matt’s parents’ for the cost of transportation, health care, feeding, etc). Seems Matt would think that’s would be his parents’ fair contribution….heh heh.

        Fed Up Gal

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Fed UP GAL IN NM,
        I was gonna agree with you on your statement of sending all the illegals that Arizona arrests to the states that are boycotting Arizona and then I had a second thought. The governments of those states aren’t necessesarily reflecting the wishes of the majority of the people so why punish the people that don’t agree with them? I would rather see them sent to Calderone’s hacienda!!!! It would almost be worth the transportation costs!!!

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Joe H,

        Well said….you might be right about that…..since my own state (NM) is one of the states’ whose elected officials don’t seem to support Arizona’s stance (and NM is also a border state). So, while it would increase problems for our state (and other states who had to receive the deportees)…maybe that’s what it will take to get people off their butt’s to make a “real” change we can “really” believe in. :-)

      • daughterofthenewamericanrevolution

        Tell your friend to definitely not move to Texas then. I live in S. Padre Island, which is only a few miles from the Mexican border. They are coming across the border “legally” and kidnapping American citizens and returning them to Mexico to be held for ransom. Last night I was minding my own business taking a nice walk and got jumped by 5 Mexicans who couldn’t even speak English! Please don’t get me wrong, I love many LEGAL Mexicans. They are nice people and cook awesome food. It’s the gangs that fill our prison systems to overflowing. Check out the stats on L.A. County Jail systems. Send them back. I don’t even want them doing time in my country. I am afraid now to take a walk. All illegals, regardless of their country of origin need to be treated the same – SENT BACK HOME.

      • Save America Susie

        DOTNAR–How awful! How did you get away?

      • Mike In MI

        Good grief… Kidnapping, gangs roaming around assaulting and terrorizing people at will, murdering ranchers, stealing whatever isn’t nailed down, forcing American citizens to raie steel bars on their homes, drunken crazies with all their noisy fights and disturbance, police unable to mete out justice – - -??? Are these the jobs they come here to do that U.S. people won’t do?

        Our governmental paralysis is going to result in vigilantism and piles of corpse if something isn’t done and done soon.

        Maybe it isn’t “paralysis”. Maybe it studied indifference to

      • Mike In MI

        (cont’d) studied indifference in expectation of untenable conditions arising that lead to worse lawlessness than now is occurring…in order to oppress regular citizens??? That’s how tyrants get things done.

    • http://unitelc.com w mackay miller

      You might check on California’s penal code 834(b)(c). I received this via Email today. It sure is easy for the president to screen about Racism and anything else he can think of even though he hasn’t even read the law as enacted by Arizonia.

blog comments powered by Disqus
Bottom