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North Korea—Brace For Another Phony War

June 2, 2010 by  

North Korea—Brace For Another Phony War

“What difference does it make if it’s true? If it’s a story and it breaks, they’re gonna run with it.”Wag the Dog

Upset by the Energizer Oil Spill, the healthcare bill or our economic ills? Don’t worry; you might not have to fret much longer. Not because anybody is going to fix these problems. Rather because President Barack Obama might be seeding a much bigger problem.

Last week Obama announced United States troops stationed in the Korean Peninsula were going to a war footing. The move came as South Korea announced it was cutting off all trade with the North in retaliation for what it claims is the deliberate sinking of its warship the Cheonan in March. The government in Seoul vowed “immediate” retaliation if North Korea attempted further provocations.

According to White House spokesman Robert Gibbs, “U.S. support for South Korea’s defense is unequivocal, and the President has directed his military commanders to coordinate closely with their [South Korean] counterparts to ensure readiness and to deter future aggression.”

It has even been “leaked” that because of the urgency of the “crisis”, the U.S. has deployed its most advanced air-superiority fighter, the Raptor F-22, to the Korean Peninsula.

Excuse this writer for thinking it all sounds a bit too much like the movie Wag the Dog. In that film a spin doctor sees his President’s polls falling so he employs a Hollywood director to construct a fake war with Albania. It is all an attempt to distract the media and the people.

Of course what is happening in Korea may have nothing to do with growing dissatisfaction over Obama’s handling of the oil spill, the recent 10 percent decline in the Dow Jones Industrial Average or the European debt crisis. North Korea may in fact be a clear and present danger to our national security. But we should consider that the “crisis” with North Korea is a diversion from growing success for the Tea Party and growing criticism of the President. In fact there is precedent.

Gulf Of Tonkin
Pyongyang has denied it torpedoed the Cheonan near the Korean maritime border killing 46 sailors. And it has accused South Korea of trespassing in its waters, saying that the South has sent “dozens of warships” into its waters these past few weeks in "a deliberate provocation aimed to spark off another military conflict."

I am not stupid enough to believe what comes from this reckless government and its midget dictator Kim Jong-il. Then again I am not stupid enough to believe everything the Federal government tells me either. If you are my age or older you might remember President Johnson and the Gulf of Tonkin.

That military crisis was ushered to an unsuspecting public on Aug. 5, 1964, with a headline in The Washington Post that read: “American Planes Hit North Vietnam After Second Attack on Our Destroyers; Move Taken to Halt New Aggression.” That same day The New York Times reported: “President Johnson has ordered retaliatory action against gunboats and ‘certain supporting facilities in North Vietnam’ after renewed attacks against American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin.”

According to Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, There never was a “second attack” by North Vietnam. No “renewed attacks against American destroyers.” Instead these official lies told from the President on down took hold and opened the floodgates for the bloody and useless Vietnam war; a conflict that originally had a huge backing by the American public and swept LBJ into office with the greatest percentage of the total popular vote (61 percent) ever attained by a Presidential candidate.

The same LBJ who just three months before the election had ordered U.S. bombers to "retaliate" for a North Vietnamese torpedo attack; and attack that never happened. In fact a year later LBJ joked: “For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there.” All very funny except for the terrible cost in blood and money that the Vietnam conflict inflicted. You notice I don’t use the word “war” because the U.S.  didn’t declare war, not then and not in the nearly half century since.

Instead Congress passed the Southeast Asia Resolution (the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution) backing the President in taking “all necessary measures to repel any armed attack against the forces of the United States and to prevent further aggression.” On Aug. 10—less than a week after the fabricated fight—Johnson signed the resolution. There were only two dissenting votes in the Senate and not one in the House.

The Uncensored War, a book by Daniel Hallin, indicts the press over Vietnam.* Hallin points out that the media had “a great deal of information available which contradicted the official account of Tonkin Gulf events; it simply wasn’t used.” Just the day before the first incident Hanoi had protested the attacks on its territory by Laotian aircraft and South Vietnamese gunboats.

What’s more, wrote Hallin, “It was generally known that ‘covert’ operations against North Vietnam, carried out by South Vietnamese forces with U.S. support and direction, had been going on for some time.”

Ancient history you say? Not if you count Saddam Hussein and those weapons of mass destruction that never did turn up. That fairy tale gave us $1 trillion conflict with Iraq and a resounding re-election of another incumbent President.

The bottom line is I won’t be surprised if this fearless President stirs the nation into action and gets many of us ready at the ramparts in the face of a foreign horde. It is what General Douglas MacArthur warned us of.

“Talk of imminent threat to our national security through the application of external force is pure nonsense,” said the General in 1951 adding: “Our threat is from the insidious forces working from within which have already so drastically altered the character of our free institutions—those institutions we proudly called the American way of life.”

MacArthur knew what it took to wage and win a real war. He also learned the hard way the politics and economics involved in a modern “conflict”… the kind of conflicts the U.S. invariably falls into when the nation’s economic or political woes grow out of control.

Yours for real wealth and good health,

John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold Report

*Footnote: The Uncensored War: The Media and Vietnam, Daniel C. Hallin, New York, Oxford University Press, 1986.

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • American Liberal

    Are you finally admitting the Iraq war and all the propaganda leading up to it was Phony?….and that those that lost their lives both American and Iraqi died for a another phony cause?… I wonder if the Neo cons that supported the Iraq war would think it’s a phony war if they had got Iraqs Oil reserves…..remember, Iraqi oil was going to pay for Bush and Cheneys personal war of profit in Iraq…. We probley won’t ever know how much Bush , Cheney and the other Pnac war Profiteers made off Iraq….. I’m still holding out some hope Bush & Cheney will face war crimes someday …. One of my biggest complaints is that Obama didn’t go after Bush and Cheney criminally ….and. Is anyone suprised Iran has closer ties to Iraq than Washington has….that’s all Bush war accomplished… They made Iraq Iran west…

    • Meteorlady

      Why not pose the question to the Kurds that are still alive today and to the Iraq people that get to vote in an election?

  • Harry Cauley

    Obama doen’t lie! He actually believes his own warped thining.

  • Raggs

    obama the world dictator….
    Yup this false flag war is just what he needs, the sheeple will never see it coming.

    • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

      I couldn’t agree more. Look how they all lined up with the Weapons of Mass Destruction. Even after the Bush regime admitted there really were none there are still yahoos insisting there were. The so called left wing media has never gone back and seriously corrected that either and that’s because there is no left wing (or even right wing) media. It’s all the corporate owned media and who owns the corporations? Back to square one

  • Norm

    Quotes on Peace and War
    by Thomas Jefferson

    ” I love peace, and am anxious that we should give the world still another useful lesson, by showing to them other modes of punishing injuries than by war, which is as much a punishment to the punisher as to the sufferer.”

    ” War has been avoided from a due sense of the miseries, and the demoralization it produces, and of the superior blessings of a state of peace and friendship with all mankind.”

    ” I value peace, and I should unwillingly see any event take place which would render war a necessary resource.”

    ” Believing that the happiness of mankind is best promoted by the useful pursuits of peace, that on these alone a stable prosperity can be founded, that the evils of war are great in their endurance, and have a long reckoning for ages to come, I have used my best endeavors to keep our country uncommitted in the troubles which afflict Europe, and which assail us on every side.”

    ” I do not believe war the most certain means of enforcing principles. Those peaceable coercions which are in the power of every nation, if undertaken in concert and in time of peace, are more likely to produce the desired effect.”

    ” We love and we value peace; we know its blessings from experience. We abhor the follies of war, and are not untried in its distresses and calamities.”

    ” The evils which of necessity encompass the life of man are sufficiently numerous. Why should we add to them by voluntarily distressing and destroying one another? Peace, brothers, is better than war. In a long and bloody war, we lose many friends, and gain nothing. Let us then live in peace and friendship together, doing to each other all the good we can.”

    ” Born in the same land, we ought to live as brothers, doing to each other all the good we can, and not listening to wicked men, who may endeavor to make us enemies. By living in peace, we can help and prosper one another; by waging war, we can kill and destroy many on both sides; but those who survive will not be the happier for that.”

    ” I abhor war and view it as the greatest scourge of mankind.”

    “The most successful war seldom pays for its losses.”

    “War is as much a punishment to the punisher as to the sufferer.”

    ” War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.”

    • Right Wing

      “Now I shall go and make more peace with my slave women” TJ

    • http://naver samurai

      Isn’t it amazing that when libs start losing they only have about 3 strategies to use, one of which is bringing up Thomas Jefferson. If he were alive and saw what the DEM had turned into, he’d probably be mad as heck and join the TEA PARTY and tell Obama bin Laden to get out and never come back.

      • Norm

        samurai
        Or not.

      • Right Wing

        Right on Samurai. Norm do your own homework and quit citing the liberal playbook.

      • http://naver samurai

        Hooaah! For God and country!

      • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

        TJ would be sick alright.. with both parties. and I highly doubt he’d be keeping company with some of the insane right wingers on this group.

  • JC

    I have to wonder…is this yet another false flag operation to distract from domestic events? To take our attention off of the incredible incompetence presently in DC?
    It wouldn’t be the first time and as we know…war is big business.

  • Pat Ridge

    The first US soldiers killed in Vietnam were in 1959,2 years before JFK came to power.I was never a fan of LBJ but to be fair to him let’s say he made a speech in 1964 “Alright we pulling out of Vietnam lock,stock and barrel next week” Reagan,Goldwater,John Wayne etc would be screaming from the rooftops that the Democrats are soft on Communism etc hindsight is 20/20 remember,having said all that John Meyers makes a lot of good points.

    • http://bigal.com Big Al

      Actually, the first american killed in Vietnam happened way back in 1945 when the French first began returning to Indochina. America took over the French Indochina War financially around 1950, and fully took control of the South Vietnamese government and military around 1956.
      LBJ’s Tonkin incident simply was the final step.

  • Chaos factor

    It’s typical that the rightys would try and find a way to blame president Obama for yet another problem that the last Rrpublicans administration just ignored and shoved on down the road…..the Cia and Fbi both said North Korea had sunk the S. Korean ship…..by the way…. President Obamas approval poll has moved up to 54% …. and of course Fox propaganda station and Tokyo Rush didn’t even mention that…I believe the portion of the American public that still has any commonsense sees that no matter what our president does the Anti American rightwing will spin it the opposite of the truth…

    • Right Wing

      Is the portion of America with common sense you refer to sharing your medical marijuana with you right now? Check Rasmussen, “Overall, 46% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the president’s performance. Fifty-three percent (53%) disapprove.”

      • Norm

        Right Wing
        FYI
        Ronald Reagan’s approval rating was 42% at this point in his first term.

      • JeffH

        Normie, Reagan is long gone and your POTUS is to be gone soon (2012) enough.

        FYI 6/2/2010…The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 26% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -14

        Now remember this is O-B-A-M-A’s “strongly approve” poll = 26%? WOW!

      • http://naver samurai

        With his mishandling the oil spill and other things, these numbers will probably don’t more very soon.

  • Right Wing

    War is not the issue, it is the nature of the war and the reason for US involvement that is in question. To claim that America should retract to a protectionist defensive posture is defeatist and absurd. Running a country is a business and the costs and benefits must be weighed for all facets of activity ranging from friendly negotiations to all-out war.

    The real issue here is that the federal government is tasked with keeping a militia to defend the country. It is also tasked with operating as a service to the citizens of this country. The real problem then with military action is when it is not used tactfully to achieve protections needed for the progress of the US. For a greater understanding of the Constitutional importance of protection you need to read the Federalist writings. The intent of trade protection was heavily considered when the Constitution was presented to the public
    for adoption. Our founding fathers clearly recognized the importance of trade controls. Underpinning the Constitution is the need for militia and while I do not advocate that the document suggests we use force to control trade, there are applications where it has been and may again be necessary.

    War for political gain…good for few, bad for many.
    War for love…again…good for few, bad for many.
    War for natural resources…good for many, bad for few/many.
    War for grudge…bad for all.
    War for religion…bad for all….fill in your own.

    • Dave

      War for freedom…good for people, bad for politicians
      War for politics…bad for people, good for politicians
      War on politicians…good for people, good for politicians

      Kick em’ all out!

      • Rob Alexander

        How do you have a war for freedom, unless it’s against the ruling power a la the American Revolution?

        Freedom always contracts, it never expands, during war.

    • Vicki

      Right wing writes:

      “The real issue here is that the federal government is tasked with keeping a militia to defend the country.”

      That would be a standing army. The founders warned us about a standing army. The federal government is tasked with TRAINING all citizens in the art of arms so that we the people, who are the militia, can not be taken over by military force from without nor from within.

  • Barb

    I think John Meyers is right ! Obama is trying desperately to distract us from all the domestic crap going on here and all the rest of the crap he is trying to cram down our throats. Meanwhile he also wants to divert our attention from the mideast and especially what’s going on with Israel and Afghanistan, his war I might add. We had a vested interest in the Iraq war whether you want to believe that, Norm or not! But why should we get involved in Korea again? If they can’t defend themselves by now why is that our problem? We need to butt out and take care of the USA and that means concentrate on getting rid of Obama once and for all. The lying, cheating worthless, illegal that he is!

    • eddie47d

      Barb, Where’s the diversion? Obama hasn’t said anything that another President wouldn’t have said on the Korea situation. Where’s our vested interest in Iraq? That conflict never should have been. Are you just blowing alot of smoke? Is your hatred for Obama that intense that you don’t see any solutions to anything?

      • http://naver samurai

        Don’t forget moron that Clinton hit empty terrorist cams in Afghanistn, an aspirin factory in the Sudan, and went into Bosnia (There was no need to go there) jus to get the press and the average citizen of his white !@#$%^& about the women he was seeing. Study your facts first.

      • Mick for thought

        Your last sentence hit the nail on the head. Barb is a paranoid and believes everything she reads on this and every other right wing website. When I tried to get a rational thought from her she called me a liar and disappeared for a week.

      • http://naver samurai

        Do something a liberal doesn’t have the guts to do and show us some facts and your sources. Then, get ready to have your leader Osaaaaama taken out of office in 2012. Baaaaa! Baaaaa! Baaaaa!

      • Mick for thought

        I do Samurai. Practise what you preach but because I am an independent not a liberal.

  • BigBadJohn

    Like I have said before…. My biggest complaint about Obama is that he is doing EXACTLY the same things that Bush did!!!

    Bush started a phony war in Iraq so he could open the US treasury to his supporters, Obama learned that lesson well…

    • Right Wing

      BBJ, Bush did everything that many other presidents did and more…he caused Katrina. He even claimed responsibility for it! Where did Ray Nagan’s big mouth go after Bush claimed responsibility? Silent.

      No president is immune to the collective strength of a government corrupted past the point of serving the people and this is exactly what most people want to see changed. Government is serving itself by pandering to voter bases. They rub it in our faces and laugh at us while we toil for ourselves. Chew on this for a while…

      “…it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.” ~ Alexander Hamilton

    • Rob Alexander

      I’ve said it many times now, usually to Democrats who mistakenly think they gotten some kind of “change”, for the better no less:

      Obama is Bush on steroids.

      Everything bad Bush did, Obama is doing the same but to a higher degree.

    • Tammy

      Excuse me but Bush did not start a phony war, We the People of the United States of America wanted war, for 9/11, All the news agency held polls asking Americans if they wanted war, Heck I even voted for it, You people seem to forget that those @#@@# came to our home and hit us hard. I for one will not stand still and let you slap me in the face without knocking you on your dairy-air. Doesn’t anyone remember the unity that we all went through after 9/11??????? Am I the only one?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Tammy,
        Getting them to admit that they agreed with going to war at the time would be akin to getting anyone to admit they voted for a bad president, ain’t gonna’ happen!!!

      • BigBadJohn

        Wrong, A vast majority of people wanted OBL’s head on a platter so backed the war in Afghanistan. However, when Bush had Osama Bin Laden cornered in Tora Bora – HE LET HIM GET AWAY! Why? Because Iraq was more important to Bush than actually getting the people that attacked us!

  • Mochona

    The war is helping to keep folks at Rethyon, Hilburton, Martin-Mareata, Blackwater, etc,etc,etc employed. It is a works program.
    What is your take?

    • http://naver samurai

      How much koolaid do you drink a day?

  • Norm

    Let’s not forget:

    Rep. Alan Grayson
    Posted: May 29, 2010 09:48 AM
    We’ve Always Been at War with Eastasia
    On May 30, 2010, at 10:06 a.m, the direct cost of occupying Iraq and Afghanistan will hit $1 trillion. And in a few weeks, the House of Representatives will be asked to vote for $33 billion of additional “emergency” supplemental spending to continue the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. There will be the pretense of debate — speeches on the floor of both chambers, stern requests for timetables or metrics or benchmarks — but this war money will get tossed in the wood chipper without difficulty, requested by a president who ran on an anti-war platform. Passing this legislation will mark the breaking of another promise to America, the promise that all war spending would be done through the regular budget process. Not through an off-budget swipe of our Chinese credit card.
    The war money could be used for schools, bridges, or paying everyone’s mortgage payments for a whole year. It could be used to end federal income taxes on every American’s first $35,000 of income, as my bill, the War Is Making You Poor Act, does. It could be used to close the yawning deficit, supply health care to the unemployed, or for any other human and humane purpose.
    Instead, it will be used for war. Because, as Orwell predicted in 1984, we’ve reached the point where everyone thinks that we’ve always been at war with Eastasia. Why?
    Not because Al Qaeda was sheltered in Iraq. It wasn’t. And not because Al Qaeda is in Afghanistan. It isn’t. Bush could never explain why we went to war in Iraq, and Obama can’t explain why we are ‘escalating’ in Afghanistan.
    So, why? Why spend $1 trillion on a long, bloody nine-year campaign with no justifiable purpose?
    Remember 9/11, the day that changed everything? That was almost a decade ago. Bush’s response was to mire us in two bloody wars, wars in which we are still stuck today. Why?
    I can’t answer that question. But I do have an alternative vision of how the last 10 years could have played out.
    Imagine if we had decided after 9/11 to wean ourselves off oil and other carbon-based fuels. We’d be almost ten years into that project by now.
    Imagine if George W. Bush had somehow been able to summon the moral strength of Mahatma Gandhi, Helen Keller, or Martin Luther King Jr, and committed the American people to the pursuit of a common goal of a transformed society, a society which meets our own human needs rather than declaring “war” on an emotion, or, as John Quincy Adams put it, going “abroad, in search of monsters to destroy”.
    Imagine.
    Imagine that we chose not to enslave ourselves to a massive military state whose stated goal is “stability” in countries that never have been “stable”, and never will be.
    Imagine.
    “Imagine all the people, living life in peace.”

    • Right Wing

      Norm the more I piece together the fragmented thoughts of your posts you appear to be a liberal seagull…fly in, make a bunch of noise, crap all over everything, and disappear. Alan “Man Without a Mirror” Grayson, seriously? If you want to cite a reference with some history and a track record of (poor) success then Grayson is the “mini-me” to Obama’s “Alinskyesque” agenda.

      Try reaching back to the constitution for a greater understanding of the need for global militia. Try: John Jay, “Concerning Dangers from Foreign Force and Influence”, Federalist 2-5, 1787. There are some big words there and i am sure your lips will be moving for awhile and you might have to use a dictionary…but try.

      http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fedi.htm

    • Ken

      Give me a break with the John Lennon tag line. Let the Koreas eat each other. NOTHING good comes out of North Korea. We don’t need any more cheap crappy cars from South Korea. How about an envoy to China to sign a mutual pact to stay out of this conflict. The Korean peninsula has almost no strategic value, unless you are Japanese. Given that we are Americans, maybe we should leave this problem to the people that MIGHT be affected by it. If that little turd does have an atomic weapon, and he threatens to use it, then crisp the whole place.

      • Norm

        Ken
        We have to be careful with China or they’ll pull our credit card.
        Get in debt with your worse ememy. Another gift from money driven system.

      • Dave

        Norm, please return your credit card

      • http://naver samurai

        Oh I don’t know. China helped Clinton win in 1996 bt giving him money for his campaign.

      • http://naver samurai

        Sorry, but we must keep our promises. America doesn’t cut and run you moron. Grow up and get a life!

      • Dave

        Personally, I don’t even own a credit card… Seriously! I pay my bills and I don’t owe anyone squat! I even have $ in the bank, investments, retirement funds, etc. The reason this is, is because I understand that I CANNOT spend my way to prosperity! I didn’t borrow anything from China! GET IT NOW!!!

    • Meteorlady

      Let me help a little Norm:

      For GWB, energy was first and foremost a national security issue. He had warned in 2000, “As a result of our foreign oil imports skyrocketing, America is at the mercy more than ever of foreign governments and cartels.”

      Also from Bush:
      The best way to break this addiction is through technology. Since 2001, we have spent nearly $10 billion to develop cleaner, cheaper and more reliable alternative energy sources. And we are on the threshold of incredible advances. So tonight I announce the Advanced Energy Initiative — a 22% increase in clean-energy research at the Department of Energy to push for breakthroughs in two vital areas. To change how we power our homes and offices, we will invest more in zero-emission coal-fired plants; revolutionary solar and wind technologies; and clean, safe nuclear energy.
      We must also change how we power our automobiles. We will increase our research in better batteries for hybrid and electric cars and in pollution-free cars that run on hydrogen.

    • 45caliber

      Imagine not doing anything about 9/11 and having the White House, New York, Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, LA, San Francisco and a dozen other cities bombed because they think we are weak.

      Imagine a land where we are FREE and not micromanaged by the government as you suggest.

    • Mick for thought

      I can imagine all the people living all in peace but it does not make the bad guys want to kill me less. Reality is reality.

  • Tom Matuszak

    My brother-in-law was in the Chosin Res. and spoke of the Chinese soldiers that were countless.

    North Korea will ally with China and we will be back in a conflict that is not winable

    When are we going to learn from History , and sweeep Washington out and start over?

    These are all diversions to have the American people look elsewher as the Fox blows down the houses.

    God Bless our men and women who serve but they are but Pawns in the greater SCHEMES for the people in Power.

  • Claire

    “between” I should proofread…

    • Claire

      North Korea versus South Korea:: Forget them, nothing can “fix” what “refuses” to be fixed. These people do not want peace, they never have. This is an ongoing saga that will always be in existence. I say, stay the heck out of it. Stupid is as stupid does if Obama chooses to get involved. Another dang issue to contend with. Is there no end to this insanity?

      • Rob Alexander

        Amen to that!

      • Mick for thought

        We have been involved from the 50s aka nearly 60 years.

      • http://naver samurai

        As long as they are two countries and not one, we’ll probably be there for a long time.

      • Mick for thought

        yep

  • Claire

    I would really hate to see China step in and get involved in a war between N. Korea and S. Korea. Do you realize how many soldiers they have? The amount is staggering. China has always kept their military “beefed up.” I read something awhile back that indicated they had a million or more soldiers? Can’t remember where I read this, does anyone else know?
    We do not need to be involved in this mess. We are already stretched to the max. Obama better keep a neutral stance and use his damn brain for a “change,” or we may very well be on the outs with China. We owe China millions and this is serious business. Don’t get me wrong, I am not afraid of China, I just don’t want America involved in this fiasco, we cannot take on additional wars. If we do, we won’t have any soldiers left here in America. We are so debt-ridden now over Iraq and Afghanistan that it would be foolhardy to step into this trouble bewteen N. Korea and S. Korea. Let them work it out themselves. Heck, they have been fighting amongst themselves for years. It will never be any different.

    • Rob Alexander

      I don’t think it matters all that much how many soldiers they have any more… Wars are fought from a distance with helicopters and planes and missiles now. It’s kinda useless to have a Civil War battlefield full of soldiers when a couple of missiles can toast ‘em all in seconds.

      • Claire

        Rob Alexander–True. But still, the number of soldiers they have is phenomenal.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Claire,
      China has a standing military of over a million men and women. That is why they would just walk over the south. They don’t need nukes to do it. They look at a dead soldier as one less mouth to feed in a country that can’t feed it’s population!
      As for North Korea, they have a two to one advantage in tanks and armor, they have almost a two to one advantage in air power and they already have tunnels under the border that only have to be punched through to use. South Korea would have their hands very full, even with the help of the U.S.!

  • http://yahoo.com AmericanPatrot

    Why not send that Raptor to the border to keep out the millions of illegals crossing it…hell of a lot more important than whats going on in Korea…

    • Meteorlady

      Hear hear!

    • 45caliber

      But that might make the President of Mexico mad at us and declare war on us! Aren’t you trembling in fear?

    • Mick for thought

      back to decades old treaties.

      • http://naver samurai

        I’m pretty sure that our treaties with Mexico are updated by now.

  • Peter Ramsey

    A war in Korea would be a disaster for the entire world.
    However, I agree with you that Obama is capable of anything.
    LBJ was probably the most evil president in my living memory.
    I believe he is directly responsible for the murder of JFK.
    We’re not as free as we believe, the world is run by a clique of banking cartels – most presidents are vetted by the Council for Foreign Relations (CFR) chaired by David Rockefeller.

    • tazio2013

      Wrong again right wing wacko; cheney-bush is the absolute worse potus in history!

      • http://naver samurai

        Don’t forget that FDR tried to get us into WWII before 1941. In 1940 he sent our ships hunting for U-Boats and some of them never came back. One of the was the U.S.S. Gordon James, where most of the 900 men aboard were lost. How about a GOP president pulling us out of Vietnam and a democrat increasing the size and scale of the fight? Bush/Cheney can’t even compare with these fools!

      • JO JO HANS

        Could you please give us reasons that Bush/Cheney were the worst poster
        ever. That’s insane. You probably would have like to have Obama or some
        one of his character in there on 911. That’s the mentality of liberals.
        Iran, Korea,Turkey, it doesn’t matter. Nothing will change,war or no war. Protect Israel and let the rest of them kill themselves.
        America is being destroyed within by illegal immigrants and they are from everywhere, not just Mexico. Obama’s agenda was and is to change
        the fabric of this nation and he’s doing it as fast as he can with the
        help of his socialist, liberal, wicked administration. We need to vote
        them out and stop Obama NOW.

      • eddie47d

        Obama hasn’t even started a war yet and you are already accusing him of being the worst. Cheney was the worst,hands down. What an evil man.

      • 45caliber

        He is the worst President. That doesn’t mean he has to get into a war to become the worst. Bush didn’t get us into a war; the terrorists did when they blew up the World Trade Center. If you check, the Dems voted for it. And I think you are giving Cheney too much authority even if I don’t like him.

      • http://naver samurai

        Well siad. 100% agree. For God and country!

      • American Citizen

        I just read this morning that your POTUS, Obama, may be illegally in office after all.

      • Vicki

        ?? How so?

      • JC

        Do tell…what did you read?
        It’s no surprise though, there’s every indication he’s a Kenyan Muslim.

      • Meteorlady

        So give us some facts. By calling names and hurling insults you only demean yourself and show your lack of education, class or moral values and lack the ability to engage in an intelligent discussion.

      • 45caliber

        Facts about Obama? He pushed through his “stimulus” bill that was strictly pork and payback for various groups that supported him while he was running. He pushed through the Obamacare program that saddles us with trillions of dollars of debt and has more flaws than the British version does. He includes everyone paying for abortion whether you like it or not. He insists that all have to pay for health insurance whether you need it or not (except for the illegals, of course. We pay for them for ‘free’.) He wants to put through the cap and trade bill that would REALLY run up the debt while running up taxes and the price of energy without succeeding at anything. He wants to “redistribute” everyone’s pay check – at least all of us who work for a living. Except his own, of course. Shall I go on?

      • http://naver samurai

        100% agree.

      • Mick for thought

        Fact check your facts. They are not.

      • Allan

        100%

  • PBrown

    Obama – You lie.

    • Mick for thought

      Succinct but what are you talking about.

  • 45caliber

    Democrat Actions:

    It has always been a fact that if the Democrats in office have a problem within the country such as economy and are looking bad prior to an election, they start a war somewhere. Johnson did it. Even FDR got involved with one. Clinton did it.

    This is no different. If they have problems here, get involved with a war somewhere and take the people’s mind off the problem by putting their sons and daughters in danger. It works – nearly every time. The big problem with 9-11 was that it happened on a Republican’s time in office. And he didn’t milk it like they do.

    • eddie47d

      Excuse me, Bush was the head milkman or was that Cheney. Both Vietnam and Iraq were sorry excuses for the human mind. What a waste.

      • 45caliber

        Bush was head on 9/11 – when WE were attacked. The other wars were started when we chose to. And that includes our admission into WWI, Korea, Vietnam, etc. We entered WWII when we were attacked but our people decided to allow it so we could get in.

        Quit trying to blame Bush for everything. He’s guilty of some but not all.

      • http://naver samurai

        Show me your enlistment papers and we’ll call it even.

  • http://personliberty Dan

    The North WIll Smoke S KOREA,and they HAVE CHINA AS AN ALLY,They also intercepted our Great JETS 250 Miles off their COAST with 5 Jets,and we didn’t even know where they came from,f22,f9000,aint gonna make a difference,China ALready warned the USA,If any ships go anywhere near the CHINA SEA they will be at the Bottom of it…Its called SUNBURN,You dont even see it coming…….The S will be Glass within 30 Minutes,Most likley SEOUL will be SMOKED SOONER…….

    • Right Wing

      Is this the same Dan that on slithered onto the Memorial Day Message to say, “This will be short before I throw-up. What a bunch of Brain-Washed Conform and Submit Right-Wing Sheep. Baaaa, Baaaa, Baaaa”.

      Like many of the liberals here your posts are largely meaningless and you only get a response to establish a boundary over which We the People do not want you to cross. You are like a lesser form of human wanting heat and food from the fire but unwilling to gather wood or hunt. You compound your own dilemma by shouting criticism at those around the fire for hunting, wearing fur, destroying the forest for wood, etc. At the end of the day you get the dying embers and food scraps that fuel your discord and warped need for blame and “revenge”. The contributing members feel sorry for your ignorance and through a moral dilemma, we cannot let you just die off. So be happy with your scraps of food and wisdom. Support those that do when you cannot or become productive members that contribute to the group and enjoy all that it offers. Otherwise when your numbers become too large and cumbersome, you will be cast off like the load of parasites you are.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Dan,
      don’t be rediculous! do you think China will detonate a nuke that close to their own land without the threat of invasion on their soil? Do you think those inscrutible leaders will risk dying of radiation poisoning? Don’t be absurd!!

  • http://sheltonjames@yahoo.com james shelton

    North Korea is probably trolling the political waters for more money so they’ll bahave. They can’t feed their people with the current socialist policys, a lesson Washington hasn’t learned yet. China is supposed to be their friend so give them the responsibility to take action and force N.K. to stop the crap or else. Maybe if they lose the only friend they have they’ll at least try to behave like nice little children.

  • Curtis

    I agree with EltonJ and Jeryl D we shouldn’t be the world’s peace keepers

    • Mochona

      Hilburton thru KBR, Dick Chenny’s company made a lot of money via the Iraq war.
      Thus, it is not a peace keeping thing, it is ALL ABOUT MONEY making with Our Sons and Daughters as COLLATERAL Damage (Loss).
      People walk up and see thru this.

      • Art Bowie

        It might interest you to know that Halliburton through KBR was used by the US Army during the Bosnia Peacekeeping Mission under the Clinton administration. I guess it only became “evil” when Dick Cheney became Vice President in President Bush’s administration.

      • Mick for thought

        And they have trumped up the bill every time they had a government contract.

      • Meteorlady

        Funny – we have evolved into the world police force because it makes money for our big corporations. What corporation makes the money depends on who is in power. It’s not about oil in Iraq – it was always about the economy and corporations making money.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Meteorlady,
        You nailed it!
        Best Wishes,
        Bob

      • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

        Amen Meteorlady and Bob. and I’m probably what would be called a liberal by many. We really need to find the commonground (sorry about the similarity to the “left wing” website. It seems the problem with the left and the right wings .. they never seem to question their favorite side of the bird. The left wing truly does have a good idea what’s wrong with the right wing.. and the right wingers have a good grip on what controls the left wing. They just need to remove the mote from their own eye first. Peace is possible.. but it begins within.

      • http://none Jeff

        What a remarkable coincidence how many people in the last administration had connections to oil. I would say it was definitely about oil and especiallly in Iraq. However it was also about a gas pipeline from the Caspian sea through Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, and Packistan. Was it also a coincidence that karzai was a consultant on this project and Cheney and Rice represented Oil interests in the region. Wolfowitz had been part of a strategic paper on securing an oil source in the middle-east due to vulnerability of the U.S. in the ’70′s to sky-rocketing oil prices. George Bush was the poster child. I would suggest that it was very much about oil but also other corporations like the ones that make all the U.S. planes and weopons, not to mention the rest of the industrial complex. Anyone need to rent a soldier? Blackwater has everything you need for the occupation force of your dreams and the best thing is there is practically no oversight! If it is subcontracts you need to make sure you don’t have a clue where your money went, we can do that to. And our man in charge of re-building Iraq…he is also working for a company trying to secure money for Kuwait from Iraq for damages done. Nobody has a clue where all the rebuilding money went and not so much as a pit litrine was completed for the billions that was given in aid and no Iraqi’s were hired either. At least 600,000 of Iraqi civillians died. If it was not about oil then America must not have had any influence on contracts or made any money on Iraqi oil right?

      • http://naver samurai

        Koolaid, baaaaa! Blame Bush, baaaaa! War for oil, baaaaa! Cheney, baaaa! Can’t you sheeple come up with some other subject? At least under Bush we are trying to get Osama bin Laden and under Clinton, OMG, he was too much of a “PIMP” to worry about Osama. I’ll bet he does now!

      • Mick for thought

        You got it. Americas number one export is our military and the blood of our kids.

      • http://naver samurai

        Sorry, dude. Our military only goes when it is told to and not one minute before. If you have any real ideas, please post them and put your sources on with them.

      • moody

        Who do you think owned KBR, Could it be a Dem (named Ladybird)?

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        Now it looks like Obama has been paid off by BP along with many other democrats. The bulk of political contributions have gone to the left. Until recently Obama has turned his back on the oil spill and left it up to BP.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    But boy oh boy did Lyndon Johnson and his business buddies ever make themselves millions of dollars off of Vietnam war, while leaving our young men to die over there. It took Nixon to get us out. Kennedy got us in, Johnson escalated it, and there was never a plan to win it, as that is the way the democrats liberals operate. It’s all about money and power with them, and through the Vietnam war, they had both. But we all paid for it. Just like this wanker in office now. He has no plan, but we all pay for it, except the lazy crackhead and the dudes on the porch drinking 40′s all day, who now have free health insurance, while us working stiffs are now paying higher premiums and getting less coverage, and those who didnt buy it before because they coundnt afford it, are now being forced to buy it, and from the democrats own chose insurance company that they are in bed with. I have no doubt that if Obama engages us with Korea, he will have no plan’s to accomplish anything, other that to excert power and make money for him and his big business contacts. They have buffaloed the American public into thinking the Republicans are the ones in bed with big business’s, when the Democrats are even more so, while at the same time taxing the crap out of everyone else but making exemptions for his buddies companies. It will take another Republican or an Independant to clean up after them again.

    • Art Bowie

      “The Wall” web site for the Vietnam Memorial lists Air Force T-Sgt. Richard B. Fitzgibbon Jr as being killed June 8th of 1956. Actually, I believe the first advisors were sent to Vietnam during the Eisenhower administration.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Art Bowie,
        Finally! Someone else gets it right!!! I know this as I have a friend who served there during that time!!!

    • eddie47d

      Poppycock Mr Berberoni, Nixon escalated the Vietnam War. He also made that famous comment “anyone who can’t end this war in 4 years doesn’t deserve to be president” He was re-elected and the war went on and on. Over half the American casualties were under Nixon also. He was full 0f dodo too.

      • http://naver samurai

        I suggest you get your facts straight before posting. More than half of enemy casualties were under Nixon. Don’t forget that 1,100,000 NVA troops died during that war. Also that Nixon was the one who brought our troops home. Johnson didn’t have the BALLS to do it as he was making too much money on the side, war profits you know.

  • EltonJ

    Oh, gosh, that’s just crap. Why don’t we just make a formal treaty of peace with North Korea and just bring our troops home. I’m serious. Just let South Korea and North Korea handle their own petty squabble.

    • Norm

      EltonJ
      Amen. Let’s get all American troops out of all the foreign wars and potential wars worldwide.

      • Meteorlady

        Just one quick question – if we bring all our troops hone where’s the jobs for them?

      • Vicki

        There’s this border to the south you see….

      • Norm

        Meteorlady
        Thanks to drill, drill, drill, money ahead of safety, there are plenty of jobs cleaning BP’s act of terror.

      • Right Wing

        Norm you really are a mindless POS to call an oil rig explosion an act of terror. Just leave and don’t come back.

      • JC

        That’s uncalled for Norm and it makes no sense whatever.

      • http://naver samurai

        Norm, shut the !@#$%^ up and go back to your sheapherd Obaaaaaaama!

      • Allan

        Hey, what a great idea. Let’s stop doing any activity that can involve an accident.

      • Claire

        This post may stir up some comments, but I do not expect everyone to agree.

        1. Deport ALL illegals, and leave no stone unturned until they are all gone.
        2. Bring our troops home, take care of our veterans, with the illegals gone, perhaps there will be jobs, and additional funds since the illegals will be gone–taking care of our soldiers and veterans is a “must do” and definitely a priority.
        3. Keep our military strong, and NEVER cut back on the funding for weapons, planes, etc. All military bases in the US should remain as is, only kept on a “readiness” basis and fully equipped to handle any type of attack. And I include nuclear power. America should not go around looking for trouble, but if it happens, we must be ready and able.
        4. Literally “clean up” the Dept. of Homeland Security, Dept. of Interior, Minerals Management–ALL departments especially since their track records leave a lot to be desired. If a person involved in these departments has not performed well in the best interests of America, then they are fired and replaced with people that will DO the job the way it should be handled. Communication should be improved regarding these departments. Napolitano MUST go.
        5. America must have certain regulations for the oil companies, there should be no offshore drilling until such time the oil companies have the proper equipment, etc. in case of accidents, and accidents do and will happen. The research and technology must be greatly improved. Oil companies must be held accountable for safety measures, no more skimping just to turn a profit. Use our own resources for energy–why isn’t this being accomplished? This administration (Dems and Repubs) should be going gung ho on this issue. Why are they dragging their feet? Get on the ball.
        6. Keep our noses out of foreign countries that continually squabble amongst themselves, most of them return to their “old ways” the minute we leave, therefore, this issue is futile. Why tear up a country and then spend billions to re-build it? Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Heck, Iraq was supposed to be doing better-but they are still bombing each other.
        7. Clean up the Welfare System–if people are shirking their job duties, fire them, this includes the head honchos. Get the lazy people off welfare. No more freebies. This is hard-nose and blunt, but consider having tubes tied and vasectomies. Heck, the government did this to the Native American Women back in the 50s and through the early 70s.
        8. The politicians that run for office must have a squeaky clean record. If they commit tax evasion, and any other type of law-breaking activity then they are dismissed immediately. BTW–what is going on with Rangel? Haven’t heard anything for some time. Also, any politician that spends the taxpayers money for their “fun” should be dismissed. Make them pay for their own hotels, limos, plane rides, etc. And we wonder why they all become so rich? They should have to deal with the real world just like we do.
        9. Congress must be held accountable for every law they pass, especially since they call most of the shots. Americans must have more say is what is being done, somehow. The politicians we elect usually do differently the minute they step into office than what we expect them to do once we elect them. For example, if the subject of “war” comes up, then Americans should have a deciding opinion too. Too many politicians have involved America in wars that were not feasible or in the best interests of America.
        10. No more lobbyists, no more being “in cahoots” with Wall Street, the banks, the insurance companies, big pharma, etc. We must run a tight ship, no room for the old “scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” bull. This will be no easy task. Especially since most politicians depend on these corporations and oil companies to donate to their campaigns.
        I have more comments to add, but do not want to write a book.

    • http://naver samurai

      If we did that, it wouldn’t stay that way for long. Soon Japan would jump in on the South’s side. Then China and Russia would join the North. The U.S. doesn’t want any further Russian or Chinese expansion outside their present day borders, so we would eventually have to join in the war. It may even spred to Europe, the Middle East, and other vital areas of the world. Also, we have treaties with some of these nations and the U.S. doesn’t cut and run you moron. Remember, this nation’s military aren’t a bunch of cowards like you and Norm from Cheers. “Americans, traditionally love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle.” George S. Patton Jr.

      • http://www.roman-empire-america-now.com/Roman-Empire-blog.html Douglas C. Smyth

        China doesn’t want a war in Korea, and neither does Russia, and neither of them are true Communists, either.

        I second the earlier comment: we should get out of Korea and out of the 130+ other countries in which we have military bases.

        I agree that both parties (not necessarily right or left) have fattened on war, and used it politically. An uncle in law was the State Dept. Legal officer who falsified the Tonkin Gulf account to make it look as if the North V’s had attacked us in international waters: it was in their territorial waters. But note: Goldwater was even more hellbent to fight in Vietnam than LBJ, and wanted to use nukes!

        Both the real left and the real right don’t want the US to be the global cop, because both realize that all that money spent on wars could be spent here at home: on people.

      • JC

        I appreciate the spirit of the pure warrior, but if you want to help S Korea…head on over there. But right now our own continent needs our troops at home. Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but there’s commies in the White House. And I don’t know about anyone else…but I’m tired of putting America’s kids in the line of fire for…”book entries” in some accountants ledger.

      • http://naver samurai

        I’ve already served over there for 3 years. If we were to bring our trrops home, where would they go? You libs have had so many of our bases closed that Obama bin Laden would probably give many of them their walking papers. You could put them on our southern border, but “Osama” doesn’t want to offend his hispanic special interest groups. If you don’t believe in service, honor, and duty to country, then you are not a man, nor have you earned the right to be called an American. I really hate bleeding hearts. Peacemakers are OK in my book, but just look no farther than the libs that took this blonde haired bimbo, fueler her anger about her son dying in Iraq, and put her face on national TV just to influence the 2004 elections. I suggest that you libs take a good look at youselves before pointing the finger at people. “Americans have always loved a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans.” George S. Patton Jr. Liberals don’t care about this country or its people. Vote to get them out in 2010! For God and country!

      • JC

        Oh I’m a Lib now? @!&* You!
        That said, you are one psycho that this American no longer supports on any level. Go back to Korea and stay there Please!

      • eddie47d

        You sure like to use the word moron alot. You also seem to love war alot,but that is false patriotism. Remember Ronald Reagan cut and run in Lebanon so that argument get’s real old.

      • http://naver samurai

        I don’t love war, but we have obligations that come first before some sheeple crying after Obama bin Laden. Unlike you, I’ve tasted war and it is not a good thing. I’ll agree to that, but if you give your word to do something, the bigger person always keeps their word no matter what. Its called honor. Something you don’t have.

      • JC

        “WE” have obligations? Based on what? And who the hell are you to decide that “WE” have obligations?

      • http://naver samurai

        Sorry J.C., but you are missing my point. I just wish to say that a treaty is a bunch of promises written on paper. Sure, sometimes they don’t mean anything, but if you give your word you should keep your promises. My parents told me that, I told my 4 kids that, and I’ll tell my grandkids that also. “We should keep our promises to each other, because God has kept his promise to us.” If you don’t believe what I say, fine. I you wish to respond, please do so in good taste. Let’s not fight, especially since I don’t believe in retreating. Just look at my posts. I understand your points, but the right thing to do is for us to keep our promises. If we don’t, what do you think would happen? North Korea has missiles that can reach our west coast and how much longer will it take before he can reach anywhere in the U.S.? I don’t want a preemptive strike, but to only defend the south if it is necessary.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      EltonJ,
      I wlould agree with you if China and a couple of other countries would agree to that as well!

    • Mick for thought

      I guess we just break the promises made in treaties to foreign governments by both right and left wing presidents.

    • http://gmail.com k

      So all you care for is America? You are sick! People in North Korea and the other poor countries are suffering! And you think we should just leave them alone? Just let them suffer and die? We should do something to change the world, make a difference.

  • http://www.lostnation.blogspot.com Jeryl D

    Is there no limit to what Obama will do to remain in power. This is, of course, nothing new since questionable leaders throughout history have used the blood of their people to remain in power.

    • Norm

      Jeryl D
      By questionable leaders of course you are referring to Bush/Cheney. The trillion dollar plus fiasco they started is still draining the US treasury, not to mention the lives of dedicated young men and women.

      It’s amazing how the right wing hawks only approve of Republican wars and cry foul like fools over Democratic wars.

      • 63rdpatriot

        I don’t recall him mentioning either party you left wing idiot.

      • Norm

        63rdpatriot

        Read Jeryl D’s post you moron.
        “there no limit to what Obama will do to remain in power.”

        Incidently, prople who call themselves patriots usually “aint”.

      • Dogma-Free

        True enough about the ‘patriot’ comment…just as the so-called ‘PATRIOT’ Act is also a misnomer.

        Funny, I too was thinking of the Bush administration as I was reading this, especially the part where he mentions Johnson joking about it a year later.

        If Obama was a white Republican, I’m pretty sure this site would be all for starting another conflict to ‘protect American interests’, or whatever catch-phrase they would use to justify such things.

        Then again, maybe America should just bring all its troops home, and let the rest of the world sort out their own problems, instead of trying to control everything.

      • Rob Alexander

        Amen to bringing the troops home and letting the rest of the world sort itself out… What a concept, use our military to defend America, not run the world.

      • del

        Read it again you idiot! This time use your pointy finger on each word. Maybe then you won’t have such a misunderstanding of what he wrote. He was including everyone in politics ( yes even your muslim hero) and excluding no one.

      • Right Wing

        Don’t feel bad 63rd…the left wing idiot acknowledged you.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Right Wing,
        I think that would be brainless idiot. There’s a conspiracy theory that norm traded his brain for a chance to kiss Odummers hiney!!!

      • eddie47d

        Yes he did when he mentioned Saddam and weapons of mass destruction. This site get’s so upset when George Bush’s name is mentioned and I think that is why Meyers left it out . He didn’t want to hurt your feelings.

      • independant thinker

        Bush, white republican, he got mentioned in the same light as Johnson, WHITE democrat, and Obama.

      • GenEarly

        It’s amazing how left wing chickens always blame right wing hawks for war and how right wing hawks blame left wing chickens for starting wars.Notice how a pattern emerges? BOTH WINGS are killing this country and keeping the citizens divided.Let us as citizens at least agree to support The Constitution to LIMIT both WINGS when they are in power.Government must be LIMITED for INDIVIDUALS to be FREE.

      • Art Bowie

        Well said…

      • TDG

        GenEarly, you nailed it when you said the following:

        Let us as citizens at least agree to support The Constitution to LIMIT both WINGS when they are in power.Government must be LIMITED for INDIVIDUALS to be FREE.

        Bravo, Sir!

        TDG

      • Hugh Jordin

        Extremists on both ends of the spectrum keep us dying for their egos. I left a lot of dead friends in Viet Nam and what did it prove?

        Now tourists go there, shirts and hats are made there, things are groovey, but my friends are still dead.

        The wars of today are no different. Bush was a dolt and Obama is a disappointment.

      • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

        Amen Hugh. Things will only get better when all the lefties realize that Obama and his administration are all about one world government and the righties realize their icons are no better. Well meaning people on both sides of the arguments are being duped and there are plenty of em on this board.

      • viktor leben

        Hugh,

        Vietnam was mismanaged by the politicians to a degree ….

        Hugh, don’t ever feel that way. America was LOSING the Cold War. You and your friends bought us time. The WW2 generation thought it was OK to fight Charlie everywhere and for whatever reason.

      • Rob Alexander

        Hear hear! Well said.

      • eddie47d

        Thank You

      • kerston

        Excellent comment JeffH. Now if everyone would just figure it out. :)

      • kerston

        I don’t know why Jeff is who I thought said it. Oh well You get it :)

      • Allan

        The way you limit a wing is by clipping it with term limits.

      • http://naver samurai

        Just remember Norm, if you read our history (A lib read? Don’t think so…) you’ll see that more people died while fighting wars with a democrat in office, than they did with a GOP president. Another thing I’m tired of you talking like our troops are nothing but stats. They, unlike you and Elton, are heroes. They died serving this country and fighting for freedom. You also talk about debt, well, let’s not go there with this “soend what you don’t have” administration. I also wish you would quit talking about the war for oil bit. Don’t you think that you should get some new material and a pair of BALLS and join up? It’ll be a growing up experience for the both of you, you morons!

      • Dr. Mabuse

        LMAO at you !!!!

      • http://naver samurai

        Laugh all you want, but what I’ve said was historical facts. Go look them up.

      • refuse2lose

        It’s amazing how you are so blinded by kool aid that you continue to make things a right vs left argument.You evidently think that liberals are above the crime and corruptness that infests our government.
        Take off the beer goggles and remove the IV,welcome to reality

      • Ann M Szafko

        I don’t see the correlation that Bush attacked Iraq because he needed to bolster his polls. To compare the events that led to the war in Iraq to the reasons for LBJ or Obama to start or escalate a far away confrontation is ludicrous.

        WE WERE attacked on Sep 11 2001 by a terrorist organization that is spread across the Middles East and we had a better chance at fighting it from the region, rather than hunker down and hope it would not be repeated.

        We HAD to unseat Saddam Hussein, who if memory would just serve some right, was a supporter, aider and abetter of terrorists and through his expansionist desire to be the sole power to control the flow of oil in the region, he had to GO! Why him and not another Middle Eastern country, is because at the time he was the weakest domino (condemned by the world and the UN) to knock out and settle in for the long war of fighting terrorism.
        The Chinese wall does not work in modern times, and as a major economic and military power in the world, we will always have enemies (rivals) who want to knock us off our perch.

        What is happening in the Korean peninsula is less important to us as of now (even though an insane leader like Kim Il Jong with nuclear power IS a threat to the world), but Obama and the Democrat Party’s numbers ARE in trouble and the tendency to make a mountain out of a mole hill is justifiably attributable to the Obama administration to use it as a distraction from other major issues his administration faces.

        When we question our leaders about “foreign entanglements”, why don’t we just ask ourselves, if not us, who? China? Would all of you think the world would be a better and more peaceful place with a Chinese hegemony over world affairs?

      • Dr. Mabuse

        9/11 = False Flag
        Do you really think a bunch of camel jockeys and towel heads could’ve
        pulled off that attack without any inside help? The terrorists that need to be brought to justice are now protected by the Secret Service.

        Saddam Hussein got his WMD’s from OUR military-industrial complex.
        (much to the chagrin of thr Kurds, I might add).

        Rocky Bama had better entangle us in another war in double quick time, who cares if we kill off a bunch of brown or yellow bastards, if it’ll service the bottom line.
        (I know all you right wingers are in total agreement with my last statement

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Dr. Mabuse,
        Proof please! Show me proof that Saddam got his WMDs from the U.S.! Otherwise zip it!!

      • Meteorlady

        No I am not in agreement with another war you idiot. As for WMD’s I guess the gas Saddam used on the Kurds wouldn’t fall into that category? Lots of them were dead and lying in the streets so how many does it take to die before it’s a WMD?

      • Vicki

        Wait. I thought the democrats are always telling us that there were no WMD’s. Is it now the revision of history that there were and they were gotten from the US?

      • http://naver samurai

        Doc. I don’t know what planet you came from, but hurry up and go back there! Saddam got his weapons of mass destruction from Europe and the Russians. Did the 9/11 terrorists have inside help blowwing up the WTC in NYC? Don’t know, but you saying that they are being protrcted by us you are a fool! Get off the koolaid. You’re probably not even a real doc, just some Obama bin Laden zombie!

      • http://none Jeff

        Here is an article that describes what the U.S. sold to Saddam and Iraq. One of the reasons the U.S. was sure he had WMD’s is because the U.S. sold them to him. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm

      • http://?? Joe H.

        jeff,
        Like I’m gonna believe anything from a progressive website!!! Click on “about us”!!

      • Dr. Mabuse

        Joe H.
        The proof is: when Rumsfeld made a tacit agreement with Saddam Hussein to provide him with weapons for the Iraq – Iran war.

        1. October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. [16]

        2.December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and later Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support.

        3.March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq’s use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq’s use of these weapons.

        4. May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax.

        5. May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq.

        I remain unzipped, so deal with it.

        MeteorLady:

        If you could read and comprehend, I said that the Kurds were decimated by WMD’s.

        Vicki:

        Revisionist history is a disease thats found on both sides of the aisle.

        Samurai: You are incorrect when you state that Saddam got is WMD’s from Europe, I addressed that issue in my reply to Joe H.
        No, I’m not saying that the Secret Service is protecting Middle Eastern terrorists, (use that community college education you have for a minute, ok?) Who does the Secret Service protect?
        Yes, I’m a real Dr. not a kool aid guzzling zombie as you described me, and I’m still LMAO at you.

      • http://naver samurai

        You forgot one thing there “doc”, me and my masters in history will tell you that when the war started in 1980, yes 3 years earlier than what you said in your post, the Iranians were winning at first. Suddenly, they were in retreat, why? Iran was launching SSM’s into Bagdhad and were ready to claim a victory and start the creation of a new Persian Empire(that’s what the Iyatolla wanted.), but what happened doc? What? Give up? Saddam dropped chemical weapons on them, created holes in their lines, and the Iraqi Army (Called the Babylonians) began pouring through the holes in their lines. This cause the Iranians to retreat back to their side of the border. He was also known to use these weapons before 1983 on the Kurds. You’re just a bit too late in the mind, like any other lib. Obama bin Laden, baaaaa!

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        Sadaam Huseien got the mustard from somewhere in Europe and not the USA. It is considered a WMD. Also almost no one would agree with your viewpoint so you have to take responsibility for it yourself.

      • Dr. Mabuse

        Ok Sam, I never said in my post that the Iran – Iraw conflict started in 1983. My reference was to Reagan’s back door methods of international diplomacy. Don’t get it twisted, huh?
        The war began when Iraq invaded Iran, launching a simultaneous invasion by air and land into Iranian territory on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes, and fears of Shia insurgency among Iraq’s long-suppressed Shia majority influenced by the Iranian Revolution. Iraq was also aiming to replace Iran as the dominant Persian Gulf state. Although Iraq hoped to take advantage of revolutionary chaos in Iran and attacked without formal warning, they made only limited progress into Iran and within several months were repelled by the Iranians who regained virtually all lost territory by June, 1982.

        The conflict is most often compared to World War I, in that the tactics used closely mirrored those of World War I, including large scale trench warfare, manned machine-gun posts, bayonet charges, use of barbed wire across trenches, human wave attacks across no-mans land, and extensive use of chemical weapons such as mustard gas against Iranian troops and civilians as well as Iraqi Kurds. At the time, the UN Security Council issued statements that “chemical weapons had been used in the war.” (Mustard gas) However, in these UN statements Iraq was not mentioned by name, so it has been said that “the international community remained silent as Iraq used weapons of mass destruction against Iranian as well as Iraqi Kurds”
        In addition to the Mustard gas Sadaam used on the Kurds he also used Anthrax and botulin(supplied to him by the US)as well as more traditional ordinance.

        The objectives of Iraq’s invasion of Iran were:

        1.Control of the Shatt al-Arab waterway by Iraqis
        2.Acquisition of the three islands of Abu Musa and the Greater and Lesser Tunbs, on behalf of the UAE.
        3.Annexation of Khuzestan to Iraq
        4.Prevent the spread of the Islamic Revolution in the region

        For one claiming to possess a “Masters” in history your scholarship is shoddy and your world view is particularly myopic. Oh, and by the way, In some circles I may have been accused of being a devil worshipping blood drinking necrophiliac, but never a “lib”.

      • eddie47d

        George Bush always said Saddam was the greatest threat over there and not the weakest link. Syria was probably the weakest.Mr Bush did want to bolster his polls and show up his dad and get at the oil.I’d say he didn’t accomplish much. Both Vietnam and Iraq were useless wars and started under false pretenses> The Liberals didn’t want us in either war and no one listened. They might as well have been barking at the moon with our war crazed leaders.

      • eddie47d

        Joe H. Ronald Reagan armed Saddam to the teeth with all kinds of weapons that could be used for mass destruction. I do believe France and a few other nations had a hand in it also especially with the chemicals.

      • Meteorlady

        Excuse me but………. was there a vote taken in congress and the house? How many liberals voted for the war without researching the intelligence?

      • trprj

        Using liberal and intellegence in the same sentence, is just wrong!

      • http://naver samurai

        Don’t forget that it was e democrat who started sending troops to Vietnam and the next one was responsible for thousands more wounded and dead over there. It was a GOP president that pulled us out of that mess. Read your history before you post. Vietnam was fought to stop the spread of communism and Iraq to take out a stalinist dictator who had WMD’s. Both wars had their reasoning, but you living in this country has no reasons.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        edduh!47,
        Show me some proof and facts! and not from some progressive web site like jeff did!!

      • Meteorlady

        Norm – What part of the LBJ fiasco did you not get?

    • refuse2lose

      Does anyone find it the least bit confusing that the Obama administration declares it’s full support for S.Korea but treats our only ally in the Middle East(Israel)like they are second hand trash?It must have something to do with Barry’s ties to black liberation and the Muslim BrotherHood.

      • Meteorlady

        I was thinking the same thing, funny huh?

      • eddie47d

        I support Israel but they commited a dastardly deed this week in the way they attacked those ships. Obama has to use caution for even the good guys do terrible things. Muslims are apart of this world and he has to deal with them just like all presidents.

      • Vicki

        Watch the tv show V episode “Hearts and Minds” for an example of what might be going on with the flotilla that the Israelis attacked.

        Series 1 episode 10 -V-
        http://www.hulu.com/watch/146831/v-hearts-and-minds#s-p1-so-i0

      • http://naver samurai

        Remember dude, Israel is on the defensive 24 hours a day from muslim fools that want to kill them just for being Jews. Israel didn’t fire the first shots, the terrorists did. Wake up and stop doing that liberal crack before it fries what little brains you have.

      • http://none Jeff

        Israel attacked those ships and boarded them in international waters. They have effectively set up an apartheid system in the middle east and many more palestinians are killed than vice versa. The palestines have the right to food water and the ability to travel without being harassed and they should not be kept separated from their work, families, land, crops and churches by a wall.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        jeff,
        If all they were worried about was humanitarian aid, then they could very easily make port in the port that Isriael has set up for just that purpose!! They can bring any aid in they wish and after Isriael inspects the cargo for weapons they will even distribute it for them! these azzholes were just trying to set them up to look bad to the world community and recruit bleeding hearts to their cause! What about the missiles that the palistinians have lobbed into markets at the busiest time of the day? I don’t hear you bleeding any tears for those victims. I don’t hear any tears for the school children that were killed by the palistinians two years ago by lobbing rockets into a school on purpose! yes, isriael did it too, but it was proven that the palistinians were using the school as a launching platform for missiles. Even then the Israelis warned them to cease or the school would become a target due to necessity!

      • http://naver samurai

        Jeff, the Israeli’s have a right to live in peace without some —- walking into the market, restuarant, board a bus, etc., blowing themselves up for their false god allah. If you don’t think they take their lives into their own hands sometimes by just walking to work, then you are stupid and need to get off this post.

      • Mike In MI

        OK, eddie47, He -obama- has to deal with them…
        If Obama isn’t one of the MusBroHood why doesn’t he deal with them as a President of the United States of America SHOULD? Why do they get MORE than the benefit of the doubt in every single matter, in every single situation and every single (nor confluent) incident?

        Have you got any idea of what the Q’uran has to say about a Muslim who is complicit it the death or conviction of a fellow moslem – unless…the infraction is against other moslems? Read, and learn, what the idiot profit (to the devil) had to say abou jihad and destroying the infidels (any non-moslem). You judge everything by what you think you know about “reality”.
        Well, you great student of what “is” and logical examiner of what “ISN’T” lay your fools logic on muslim “logic” and see where you end up. I Hope you have a great neck protecter.

        ‘Cause if you don’t you’re going to end up screaming like Daniel Pearl, the jewish journalist, who would not not be allowed to submit to muslim rule – because he was a Jew who deserved to be beheaded. But, if you’re not a Jew you will be given a chance to decide:
        1; BECOME A MUSLIM – AND PAY TRIBUTE AND OBEISANCE, or;
        2; “WE shave your head off – at shoulder level – as a sacrifice to
        Allah.”

        You think what you are used to living amidst is the only thing there is in this stupid world. You better grow up fast – or you’re going to lose your mind…at the base of your neck.

      • Allan

        If people were firing several missiles a day at your city, I bet you’d be interested in a blockade too. This so-called “peace” flotilla was anything but. They intentionally provoked an international incident. American liberals seem to be involved.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Allan… I agree. We need to stand with Israel. Our government is capable of making anything believable.

    • Richard Pawley

      Jeryl, it is not Obama, he is just one man and simply doesn’t have the time or even the understanding to do all that he is accused of. No one man does. Americans always seem to blame the president, Democratic Wilson for getting us into WWI when he ran on a ticket of keeping us out of the war (and signing legislation that resulted in the income tax)and Democratic FDR for passing legislation that made the depression into the Great Depression, Democratic Truman for getting us into the Korean Conflict which never ended and has been going on for nearly 60 years and Democratic Kennedy for getting us into the Vietnam Conflict that we never intended to “win” and didn’t. Today and for over half a century we don’t fight wars to win them (which means of course we never can) but for other reasons to long to go into here. The point is that none of these “presidents” from Wilson to Obama could do any of what they did or are doing without the complicity of Congress. Replace Obama with a regular Republican and you change virtually nothing! There is very little difference between Democrats and Republicans anymore. There used to be but both use different tactics to push us towards a one world dictatorship, some knowingly, some in ignorance. If the United States is to survive we need to return to the ideals of our founders, and realize that it is morality that makes the difference. Our founding fathers said that our Constitution and the Bill or Rights would not work for any but a moral people. If we want the anarchy of Marxism to live lives without morality than the United States as we have known it cannot survive. Whether one is a true Democrat (not the socialist wing that has dominated the Democrats of late) or a Republican – both by the way cater to what Big Banks and Big Business want – look at the big Financial or Banking Bill they are trying to pass that does absolutely nothing to reign in the causes of our just-beginning-financial crisis. The owners of the Federal Reserve System and others spent upwards of 300,000,000 million in lobbying in 1999 to get Congress and Bill Clinton to overturn those laws that kept the banks from causing another Greater Depression. Most of those laws were passed in the 1930′s and once rescinded it took only eight years to bring about what will prove to be the beginning of the greatest financial collapse of history if we continue on the same insane path of spend till you drop. You and I can’t do it, what makes Congress think they can? The difference is they aren’t spending their own money, just all they can borrow and all they can tax. This is why gold continues to climb no matter how much effort is made to discredit it. God gave us gold and the Democrats and Republicans gave us Federal Reserve Notes. The point is that we need moral people in Congress, regardless of party, those who don’t want to see the United States pass into the dust bin of history. Few democracies have ever lasted as long as ours. We are at a cross-roads. Some believe we have passed it and that there is nothing that can be done from here on out that will change things. I disagree. The insane spending of the Democratically controlled Congress of the last four years (and the Republican Congress before that) has guaranteed at least two hundred percent more inflation and when the dam breaks food and fuel will triple in price. (If you think the riots in Greece were bad last month wait until you see the ones here in a few years). Congress, living in a world of their own, far from main street and reality, continues to spend all they can borrow and all they can tax. With very few exceptions they must be sent home in November. If we cannot replace the 111th Congress with new people who care about freedom, the US Constitution, Equality and Justice (“equal justice” not the “social justice”) the borders, defense of our country, not every other country in the world, and letting us be about our own lives and stop interfering with social engineering experiments – well, I have a hunch that this November’s election will determine if we survive as a country or eventually break up into several countries as some believe may happen when Congress and their insane spending destroys the economy. We need all new people who are not yet puppets of those pulling the purse strings. We need moral people who cannot be blackmailed and have no secrets to hide. It is not hopeless but if we think sending President Obama home in two and a half years without changing Congress this November is going to change anything but the speed at which we disintegrate then we are sadly mistaken.
      “Wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes in many places, famines (coming) and pestilence and disease, plagues, AND this is not yet the end” said the One whose banner was held high when this great land was claimed for him by the first European to set foot in Virginia in 1607. I hope Americans continue to wake up from their deep slumber but it’s also why I called my last book, “THE LAST DAYS OF THE LATE GREAT UNITED STATES And the Great Famine that Followed”. It is not politically correct but it could save your life if taken seriously.

      • Tammy

        God bless you, you are totally correct and the whole of the United States of America needs to read your message, and let it sink in to their souls, for your message has nailed our problems right on the head.

      • Allan

        Where are you going to find moral people with enough money to run? Getting new people elected (and practically speaking that means Republicans in this coming election) to slow down the socialists in Washington is a stopgap. To get candidates with a significantly higher degree of morality (no one being perfect), the finances of running for office have to be reformed. Also efforts against creeping atheism must be galvanized. Then there’s term limits, and changing the rules of Congress to increase accountability. The 2010 election is just one important step in a very tough challenge.

      • Vicki

        Facebook and other social networking sites. That is the solution to the “costs” of running for office.

        Facebook has over 500 MILLION subscribers. That being more than the population of the US let alone the voting population is a gold mine for business and politics.

        Keep in mind that I don’t have a figure for the US subscribers it is none the less a wonderful opportunity.

      • Allan

        Well, it’s an interesting thought, a way to potentially counterbalance large special interest donors.

    • Mick for thought

      Stepping up the tempo of readiness is what is always done in cases like this. We have done it every place we have troops in the world since WWII. We did it when Russia flexed its muscles during the cold war. We did it when Reagan came to visit South Korea when I was there in the 80s. This has been done by everybody every time. This article is more spin than reality. I expected something more objective.

      • Mike In MI

        OK, Mick, et’s diagnose this situation:
        1. We’re broke;
        2. We’re in hock to China for 2/3 the world’s gross product for the
        next 300 years;
        3. North Korea and China are allies;
        4. South Korea and the United States are allied;
        5. Obama announced we are destroying our nuclear arsenal and delivery
        capacity as fast as possible;
        6. China and N. Korea are building up both their arsenals and
        delivery capacities as fast as possible;
        7. Most of what we use as a culture comes from and can be shut off
        from China;
        8. Obama bows to an Oriental Ruler as a dutiful servant should.

      • Mick for thought

        It looked like you were thinking until you got to line 8 and let your bias hang out.

        – so how we did get broke?

        – who rewarded American companies moving to China?

        – what would happen to China’s economy if they stopped selling to the USA?

        – flexing our muscles behind South Korea spends very little money. All the troops are already there getting paid. So they fly some high-tech weapons system we already own over there with pilots and support elements we already pay.

        Like I said we do this every time, forever. It is not a smoke and mirrors illusion. It is and always has been policy.

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