BigBadJohn I always love your posts. You always mention the “Other side of the story.” Perhaps a Libertarian vantage point allows us to see the flaws on both sides of the idealogical spectrem. And realize the problem lies not in idealogy but within the system itself.

I agree, neither side is fault free.

But in general, Republicans like cheap labor so allow all immigration – including illegal immigration. The democrats way of dealing with this influx is to propose amnesty.

Both sides are to blame, but after 9/11 there was an actual reason to shut down the border. Americans would have been 100% behind it at that time. Bush had both houses in his back pocket, but instead of shutting down the border, Bush opened the flood gates!

I just like showing that narrow minded opinions are just that.

I had an Hispanic female boss – she and I were very good friends back in the 80′s at a New York Times owned newspaper – she was the controller of the newspaper and our standard joke between ourselves was you could get any job anywhere if you were a Black Hispanic Female. Actually she was Spanish, but the NYTRNG Group strongly “requested” she use the word Hispanic.

Those Fema Camps….They’ve been debunked.
One picture being offered as “Proof” was in fact a pic taken of a North Korean facility. The internet is rife with BS.

But say they were real….do you want to spend the rest of your life in one of them?

People really need to stop talking about violence against the gov right now. Because when you do, death or prison are your only options if you act on that notion.

I cannot stand with anyone here, if they continue to insist on taking the Idiot Road….

SW, I’m starting to think that you are a plant. Maybe from the Left, maybe from the government. Don’t know. But for all your being a self-proclaimed authority on everything going on, you sure don’t know very much.

If I’m wrong about that, maybe you should do a little more serious research before making pronouncements about whether something is or isn’t true, because you are only a babe at this stuff.

LOL!
I am a government plant? LOL!
Oh God…
Well I am not a self proclaimed authority. I never said I was. I’m just not brain dead.

I was always nice to you Kate, but with that kind of paranoid outlook, its no wonder you you fall for all the conspiracy stuff. I am sure some has merit, and some doesn’t. Glenn Beck looked into the FEMA Camps and did a piece on his radio show. I get his emails, so I also looked into it out of interest when I got home. Some of those pics were not even from America. The rest of the stuff…..you have no way to know what those places are for.
Funny too, because while people are screaming about FEMA camps, they also scream they want a wall built on the Mexican border….walls also keep people in…

My Libertarian views confuse you apparently. If you cannot recognise something then I guess you just assume its Liberal. LOL!

Although I am certain law enforcement trolls certain sites looking for threats, and perverts…I don’t think they actually pay gov employees to sit and argue with people on blogs…..Thats laughable.

I really don’t think a government plant would be advocating trashing the Patroit Act, nor pushing the 911 Inside Job theory either. Theres a lot of evidence to support that too. Like witnesses, Thermite residue, video footage showing support beams in the basement sheared off at neat 45 degree angles, just like they do in demolitions. Theres tons of stuff……
I don’t say I know this to in fact be an inside job, but I came to the conclusion that its more probable than not. I had a PDF file with over 40 high ranking military and government officials that have stated that something is very wrong with the official story. That it doesn’t add up.

Sorry you don’t like me Kate…

SW, you just haven’t done your research on some of the topics you comment about. Also, most of us recognize that, as much as we like Glenn Beck, he is told what he can and cannot talk about. FoxNews is owned by the elites and they control what is said. He was forced to denounce the FEMA camps, just as Obama’s legitimacy is off-limits. If the news won’t report it, it doesn’t exist.

I have been studying this stuff for a good long time – I daresay, longer than you have. Many people have risked their safety and their lives to investigate things the elites don’t want us to know. Brand me a “conspiracy theorist” and a “nutcase”, I don’t care. Where there is smoke there is most certainly fire, and ridicule is the tactic used to keep people away from things they want to hide.

I’m not saying I know everything either. There is so much deception going on that it would be nearly impossible to ferret out all the facts. But you can put together the pieces and, after a while, a picture begins to take shape.

As long as we can share info without insulting one another’s intelligence, we’ll unravel the truth. But we shouldn’t lord our ideas over others or attempt to marginalize attempts to expose things that are threatening.

There are deliberate purveyors if disinformation around in order to keep us all confused. And SW, some of your posts are confusing.

There may be other reasons you find them confusing Kate…

So when they tell you what you want to hear, they speak the truth.
When they say something that defies your perspective, they are being controled. Is that how it works?

I have warned you that things are not always what they look like.

Like a major company that is selling a new coating for water mains. The coating contains toxic chemicals that will leech out into the drinking water in trace amounts. Toluene is one of them. They faild the first round of safety testing. So they tested again, but this time did not test for these chemicals. They passed.
I think their reasoning is that anycontimination would be so small and dilute, nobody would get sick. There is no safe limit of toluene ingestion.

A conspiracy nut would see this as a sinister plan to poison people. Its not.

I see it for what it is. This company has no nontoxic solutions that would practicle for making this coating. So they witewash the safety issues, and grease their way to the market. The intent is to profit, not poison.
Its bad either way, but not what it might look like.

Those FEMA camps, again…you have no real way to know what they are.

I understand the tendency and need for immediate answers. I also understand the tendency of certain people, who in the absence of facts, will create facts, to satisy their need for answers.

I think it better, when in the absence of facts, to leave the question open, until more facts are available. Or, one could compare facts available, to theory, and see which seems more probable.

You are not doing yourself any favors….

SAS, I know that I will catch heck for this, but doesn’t it look like the intent was to diminish the caucasian race? We were incouraged to limit our families, while other races and cultures have been reproducing in large numbers.

Think about it. Caucasians have held the ideals of freedom and self-governance for eons. They are the ones who conceived it, fought for it, and designed the system. They hold the spirit of liberty in their hearts, and are the main obstacle to the NWO agenda. Now they are now the bad guys, and seem to be the target of everyone, even many of their own.

The truth is, the cause of freedom is for everyone, not just certain races. But some are more willing to sacrifice for it than others. Just look at history.

With caucasians out of the way, who will step up? We’ll see.

With the example of what America could be at her best, I think anyone can carry on with our flag waving high, if they see the true freedom she stands for. If they lose the VISION of FREEDOM and get corrupt and greedy as we seem to headed toward now, the lamp is only glowing softly. Almost flickering out. Freedom makes it blaze! If people do not adapt to the America Cultural view of FREEDOM for ALL, I am afraid there is little hope to continue. But I also believe there is more at work here than just mere men! There is God who thought of America the Beacon. That makes all the difference.

Kate8, But I see your point….In a way, some people may have been racially profiling Caucasians.

Kate8…I am shocked! I never knew McCain was a member of CFR! And I only found out about CFR last year. (“Shadows of Powers” by James Perloff)

SAS, nearly everyone at the higher levels of government are either members of the CFR, or are somehow affiliated. Even Mike Huckabee!

Any notion that those running for high office and recognized by the media are anything but globalist picks is just uninformed. It is only to make us think we have parties and choices.

I don’t know how we can get out from under the control of these elites, but we aren’t going to like where they are taking us.

When the Federal Reserve Note goes bust, we won’t need the Federal Reserve.
After losing all their savings the American Public may want to call for metals backed Treasury Notes to replace the debt ridden Fed Res Note. . Thats what the Fed Res does NOT want. I am hoping that there is a window of opportunity there, where we could wrench our country back from them.
Bankers control with money.

But nothing will happen if we don’t start speaking up.

Kate8 & SW, It is a scary time and only time will tell what the answer is….I agree with you on the Federal Reserve.

Buried in the Health Care bill is money to reactivate some closed military facilities to be used as interment camps, and controlled by a new and powerful army under direct control of the president, and outside the Posse commitatus act of the 1800′s. Who needs to be interred?? Sick People??

You can never know if a thing is true until it has been officially denied.

Sidewinder you are for a better word a—— obama clone we have a first admen right to speak and if it you don,t like what you read leave as for the tea party and palin it is your right to disagree with us but don,t be stuped and start nane calling thats something obama does on a regular base but from were i set you are in total agreement with him never mind the law just do anything or say anything as long as can get away with but liberals think if you lie and put people down you look better ,wrong it just makes you look small and uneducated like the morrons you are

LOL! Ok Marvin…

Quote from Marvin: “wrong it just makes you look small and uneducated like the morrons you are”

Well Marvin, I don’t think you get it. I never said you or anyone else didn’t have a First Amendment right to speak your mind. What I am saying is I question the WISDOM of advocating violence against your government.

There is a difference Marvin. See if you can figure it out.

And the Tea Party….I didn’t name call, I drew a comparison. See if you can tell the difference. I like the Tea Party, but as it stands, its wide open for trouble. Its too disorganized.

Quote from Marvin: “your right to disagree with us but don,t be stuped and start nane calling thats something obama does.

I am not being “Stuped” Marvin… Oh forget it….I can’t help you…

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The 13 Colonies were not very organized either, Side, when they first encountered the British at their doorstep. It took some TIME and regrouping. Nothing is perfect at first. I say never give up…

I agree Susie, thats why I am hopeful.
I hope thay can manage to make it.

SW, being that liberalism has been wholly coopted by Marxist/communist/socialist idiologues, I’d like to hear your version of the “light” side of liberalism.

Protection of Individual rights Kate. Thats the part of Liberalism I do like.

Sorry, SW. I just don’t see it. I see it more as assigning preferential rights to chose mascot groups, and diminishing rights to the majority.

All they are doing is turning traditional values upside down, and making those who hold to them the marginalized class.

I am talking about Liberalism in principal.
Not the way its being practiced by certain individuals.

And you won’t see it because you are willfully blind.

I am not a fan of McCain Sidewinder just as you are not a fan of Obama but you give him respect in areas you agree with like “being nice and shaking hands with countries like China and Iran” so in that spirit…I too give credit where credit is due..McCain may be a lot of things but he is not gutless…serving as a POW and fighting for your country with your life takes great courage…we owe him the respect for his service…the humiliation and cruelty they suffer as POW’s is something you are lucky to not endure so keep it above board.

I have worked in Mexico several times. I can tell you first hand that the mexican police definitely profile! They will pull a white boy over in a second and rob you blind. We learned a long time ago to keep enough money in one pocket to convince them that is all you had.

The Governor of one of the Mexican Border states came to Arizona last week and complained that if we sent all the illegals back, it would destroy his state. They have not enough jobs or resources to support them. So he wanted the law repealled.

The US Citizens of all the Border States who want to defend the United States against the Invasion from Mexico must repel the invaders and remove those that are here as did our Founding Fathers when the British invaded or put up signs “Welcome to the Mexican States of America”!!!!

Not if we exploit the economic crisis, and get the public talking about redefining the role of government. The Fed is cash poor. Shrink the size of govt and return to a Free Market Economic System, balancing the budget.

Public pressure is the key. And for those who won’t get on the bus, they perhaps may like the view from under the bus. Support third party candidates.

Well whats he doing Raggs, why don’t you tell me?

What I see, is a president, who has some left leanings. I see a president who is going to run the system as any other Pres would, but when he gets a chance will opt for Liberals solutions rather than Conservative ones.

He may have been hard hard left growing up, but as president, you do not have to fear he or anyone else will turn the country upside down and go socialist.

They do not allow revolution every 4 – 8 years….Haven’t you caught on to that yet?

We do need to change our political and economic system, govt needs to get smaller, and detatched from industry, with its role reduced to that of law enforcement of industry. But everybody needs to be on board. Its not something any president can do by himself.

You fears are unjustified.

SW, You have a lot of good ideas, I have noticed, but can we really disengage from world affairs? Be isolationist? At one time we were, when we first started out on this journey as America, but don’t know if that is possible anymore. Many people around the world still want our bases there, regardless of what the Libs say. Though true, not all. I am sure Cuba would like to get rid of Getmo. I have often thought: “Wouldn’t that be nice and we can pay off our own debts.” But can we really turn a blind eye to those who need our help?

SW, how do you propose to get around those now running the world show? You seem to have all the answers, but you are not in control. I’d seriously like to know how you expect to implement any of your ideas.

We can roll back a percentage of our presence, just like the Soviets had to after their collapse. That would save a ton of money.

I don’t see the Swiss spread out all over the world, starting wars, or even getting attacked. The Swiss play nice as do the Swedes, they don’t bother anyone, and no one bothers them. Much of our so called “help” as in foreign aid, is nothing more than buying influence. Its not charity.

Public Pressure Kate. You get some third party guy, like a Ross Perot to rent an hour’s time on Prime Time tv. Explain our situation in plain English, to the American Public, using easy to understand charts and graphs. Explain how our current system is is causing problems and what those problems are. Then explain the solution. Do this each week. Get the nation talking about it.
Public Pressure.
We have changed our political and economic system before in response to economic trouble during the New Deal era. We can do it again. The Corporatist system requires a gov that is so large it cannot properly fund itself. The level of taxation required to fund the govt properly would have a major neg impact on the economy. So they simply borrow the difference. This cannot go on forever. Most of the world’s governments are some variation of a corportist system, and as witness in Europe, just about all of them are drowning in debt.
our system is flawed and unworkable in the long run.

There is no need to be angry. They are stuck in a rut with this system, its all they know, and they undoubtedly enjoy the power of it. But its not going to last.

We have a unique opportunity here to exploit this economic downturn. We can still have Liberal and Conservatives, every government has them. We just need to redefine the governments role. Redefine their job description.
Public Pressure.

The thing is, we have to really organize to do that.

I’m open to ideas. This is a huge endeavor.

I notice Ross lost. He had good ideas….But Clinton won.

Yes Kate, that means actually getting off your butt and doing something other than complaining.

I gave you the idea Kate.
Why don’t you see if you can think of something?

Yes Ross lost. Ross was supposed to lose. Thats why he dropped out when he was ahead.
His job was to split the conservative vote.

I’m not talking about that.
I was talking about his brilliance as a speaker.

I actually liked Ross.

Well although Ross ran on the United We Stand America party, he was working with the Clintons.
His favor to Clinton was that he would talk conservative and split the Conservative vote.

Ross’s reward, would have been a huge gov contract.
Perot Systems founded in June 1988, is a worldwide provider of information technology services and business solutions, serving the specific needs of its clients in healthcare, government, manufacturing, banking, insurance and other industries.

Information technology services for healthcare and government.
Making any sense?

I too liked Ross..but he had his own interests at heart.
One hand washes the other.

Not the point.

I thought he was a brilliant communicator who could speak plainly to the American public, about complex issues.
We need someone with those qualities.

I have talked to you people the last couple of weeks. I hear discontent about the way govt is running.
I see talk of violence. I know violence and talk of violence is rooted on frusteration.
Frusteration is the result of not seeing any options.

In Mondays topic, I posted my best shot at a solution, and how to implement it. It was a long post, and I doubt more than a couple people read it. But its up there for all to see.

I have not seen any other real attempts at solutions on this blog, other than someone who posted a list of laws that they thought should be passed on that same page. Good effort. I applaud them for at least trying.

I have mentioned that both partys do not serve the American public. I pointed out that the problem was not any one politician, or even any one political party.

The problem is our system that those politicians serve.

Anyone has a better idea than the one I posted, I would honestly like to see it. All I see are mostly complaints. Nothing positive.

My solution called for changing the system. Working through proper channels to do so. Not some foolish armed march on Washington.

Changing the system, and redefining the role of government would solve so many problems. It would roll back federal power globally and nationally, saving us a ton of money. To revert back to a Free Market Economy, would reduce the role of government to that of the classical “Night Watchman” role. In that capacity, governments only job would be to enforce the law in the marketplace. Enforce regulation to ensure proper safety standards. And enforce these rules and laws fairly for all.
Thats not what we have right now.

I got a call today that proves this point. 3M a favored corp, has just gotten approval for a coating for water mains. The coating failed safety tests the first time as it contained toxic chemicals that will poison people. A new round of tests were conducted. This chemical was not tested for in the second round of tests. Well what do you know…it passed.
Political favortism at its worst.

Now you will be drinking dangerous toxins, if you drink tap water through new mains. Sucks huh?

We need to end that system. I fleshed out a plan in broad strokes. You can copy it, change it, sign your name to it and take all the credit, I don’t care. Just get it out there.

But you won’t even read it, because you don’t want to waste 2 min of your time.

Come up with something better then.

I think….you people on this site…would just rather complain, and do nothing. You will run in circles like you are programed to.

Well I have already sent my idea out, and I will contim=nue to do so. After that, its out of my hands.

But its a hell of a lot more than you have done.

Piss or get off the pot.
I said this yeasterday, when the interests of the public conflict with the interests of a favored business, the public comes out on the bottom everytime.

The Swiss arm their citizens, and train them all. Can you imagine Obama training all our citizens and giving them arms?

But it works!

Good for you, SW. That’s real progress.

Yeah, well now its your turn Kate.
Take your own advice and stop the bashing and offer some kind of solution.

I have seen nothing in the way of solutions from you.
Only complaining.

Pay… What would you impeach Obama for” giving America healthcare “?…if you didn’t impeach Bush how in he’ll could you impeach Obama…. Abd I know it’s difficult for most republicans to think past their nose…. But if it was even possible to impeach do you know who’d take his place?.. Biden…. And after him would be Nancy Pelosi…. You need t give up trying to think … It’s not working

June, you make some good points. But it won’t make any difference. You are a believer in representative government.

We don’t have that, not really. Our system is set up so business gets representation. When the interestes of business are at odds with the people’s interests, you could say there is a “Conflict of Interest.”
And the people come out on the bottom every time.

Thats not raw cynicism, thats just the truth. Thats how it works under Corporatism, which is the present form of political and economic system we have, at least since the New Deal era.

Get vocal about changing our system to that of Free Market Economics. Do some research…Google is your friend…

Illegal Immigration = Cheap labor for business. Its Don’t Ask Don’t Tell all over again.

There is a reason this was not stopped long ago. Exploitation.

SAS, it is now doubt always a matter of pandering.

Invasion is invasion NOT immigration!!!!

Bargal… Were you this worried about the president protecting our borders during Bushs 8 years in office…. Or only since we’ve had a black president for 18 months?…you should spend less time in the bars…

It was an act of TREASON on compassion — then and now!!!

rwnut…This is what ABE LINCOLN said too. That America was too strong to be overcome by the enemy from outside. If we fell, we would crumbled from within.

And we were clever enough to elect our own poison!

Peter, Good analogy! “One man’s meat is another man’s poison!”

As a senior of 72 I don’t remember a time in my life that I have not carried an I.D and though I have been stopped a few times for minor traffic violations, I have always been asked to show that I.D. When did this law get changed and only apply to those of us that are citizens and not for anyone that MAY BE here illegally?

bargel the law has not changed, but i like you have been stopped and it matters not for the reason the first thing out of the officer mouth is can i see some id, but when you have a clown like obama thinking it funny to go on national tv and say if you are hispanish and go out for ice cream it,s adios amigos, ever thing this man does or sez is racist, trying to belittle us stuped white, black,yellow, brown, legal americans that don,t hang on ever word that his subjects do, makes you wonder were obama allegiance is he sworn to uphold the conitution and defend us fron all [enemy foreign and domestic] ,look to me like obama has sided with the illegals and is their for breaking the laws of the united states ,or mabe he is misguided or what he said was taken out of context most people engage brain befor opening mouth, and trying to incite riots by people that have no rights under are constitution are here aginst the will of 70% of the we the people ,have not worked for or earned and are demanding , and are clown in chief makes bad jokes as citizens of arizona are being raped ,murdered,kidnapped,and lossing there lively hood,but as the illegals said phoenix will burn ,i guess thats what it will take be for obama ,holder, nepolitano sez du maybe we better think this over for another year remimber nero ,you can not fix stuped stuped is as stuped does, you got to replace it vote vote vote the bums out in 2010/2012

When one gets stoped,The officer usually says you were speeding, run a red light or what ever. Then ask’s for drivers license, then if you don’t have one they ask for indenfication. And I am as white as white can be. I was just stopped last week.and had left my wallet at home. However I did remember my drivers license no,but after he had put my name in the computer. Of coarse when someone has something to hide, there is a problem with that. As a nephew of mine, found out by giving the wrong name belonging to one of his friend’s.(both of them white) his friend also had a warrent on him. Oh by the way, it was a officer of spanish decent who stopped me,I never thought, but maybe he was profiling me. I’se got to get me’s a lawyer! Gotta Go

So many good points MARVIN! Why doesn’t the Left see this? Why don’t they see what he does?

And ROY, very good revealing of truth! Everyone has to stop and show ID not just one ethnic group! Thanks.

Marvin… What a rambling rant….

This law is racist period.

It only mirrors the Federal law.

Obama surely paid someone to take his harvard finals as well as the bar….

Let him flip flop while he is still in there. Maybe it will get the fing administration to do something

sorry … but while your laughing … try and think about this …

one … obama doesnt care about anything anyone else says … he said … I will have the troops out of there in how many months … did it happen … NOPE …

two … he said he is worried about the poor and the middle class … well this is impossible … because now the poor and the middle class have to pay for someone who is “ILLEGAL” when they go to the hospital … and someone that sits around doing “NOTHING” all day … and then go to jail for it … sounds like a great idea …

three … his admin thought it would be a great econ decision to spend more than all the presidents put together in the first 6 months … and we wonder why we are in debt …

four … while he is spending time dinkin around with countries that are actively and openly wanting to destroy our country he is busy shaking hands with them … his soothsaying wont work on people who for generations have had it out for INFIDELS yes .. thats anyone that is not a part of their religion …

five … he was only a senator for a couple of years … and then elected to president … oh … wait … he was a JR senator … he wasnt even an actual senator … he was on the JV … and the oh so smart dems thought it would be great idea to vote him into the most powerful seat we have in this country … and armed with his JV like experience we are now able to experience the joys of child like decision making instead of an adult …

oh … and the funniest part … ready … is that we will now go to jail for not paying for an illegal alien to get medical care … but also make your chances of getting a job if need be … less … and less … oh … this is sooooo funny … my stomach hurts … and my parents … and family members that fought for this country are now being told that they will have limited health care once they get to a certain age … and that if I have a kid up until they are three they will have limited health care …

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH … its a sad day when being conservative about anything is frowned upon …

conservative by its nature is to say … wait … lets consider this … or lets pause for minute … not for whatever other countries think … forget them … lets consider what the people of this country have to say … lets worry about our own people first … people confuse being illegal with being hispanic … but lets not forget illegal means any other nationality too …

I mourn for our kids because of the carelessness of my generation …

nathan_em….What you are seeing is what happens when someone who has the best intentions goes to Washington, and meets harsh reality.

Obama’s stance on illegals, is yes, softer than that of Conservatives. He is a Liberal, and Liberals by nature care for the downtrodden. Thats what you get when you elect a Liberal. Just tough it out for now…

And he didn’t spend more that all other presidents combined in his first 6 months in office. I agree he spent record amounts, but his borrowing is still not the same amount that Bush borrowed. I agree Obama is spending at a MUCH MUCH faster pace, but again, he’s a Liberal, and Liberals agree with gov interference in economic matters. He has a borrow and spend mentality not unlike his Republican predecessors.

And What Obama is trying to do overseas, I believe is repair relations that were damaged by the last administration. If a handshake will fix things, then why not. We are tapped out now. We cannot afford any more carpet bombing raids on those who don’t agree with us. If we keep it up, they are going to shut off our borrowing. When that happens, all hell will break lose.

And Nathen….I grew up with several muslim kids from 3 different familys. They were very normal kids. We all played on the same baseball team together.

Consider the possibility that your view of muslims may be somewhat distorted.

Nathen….Do you agree with this statement?
Is there any part of this you disagree with?

A *** believes in moderate to high government intervention on personal matters and little to no government intervention on economic matters. They strongly support capitalism as an economic system and tend to support foreign intervention, war and laws restricting personal liberty. They strongly believe in property rights or homestead. A *** believes in protecting economic liberty.

Do you agree with high government intervention on personal matters?
And do you agree with laws restricting personal liberty?

Let me know….

Because I think you are politically confused.

They also will convert you “infidel” or chop your – that thing that sits above your shoulders with ears!!

SW, It’s not the people….I have had a few Muslims acquaintances and they were very nice. One was a co-worker, one was a neighbor for 5 years, one was a small business owner across the way. Individually very kind and gracious. I am sure your experiences with them were similar. But the fact remains that ISLAM means “SUBMISSION”.

“ALTHOUGH THERE ARE MODERATE MUSLIMS, THERE CAN BE NO MODERATE ISLAM.”

You cannot change the Koran. The Koran says what it says. It is not the people I worry about, it is the thumb they are under–the Religious Hierarchy. It is really more of a worldwide POLITICAL movement, much worse than any socialist state you may wish to avoid.
Again its not the people. I have nothing but good memories & thoughts about them. But I also feel sorry for them. Its NOT Freedom.

Also, I did not notice anything about the economy being that bad, until right before the election of 2008. Maybe the gas prices was all. And the size of ice cream and yogurt containers was shrunk and then we were charged the same price.

Maybe BO thought we’d need help fixing it and then he could step in. I have to wonder if Fannie and Freddie & everything else wasn’t planned just for that purpose. So the Libs could “RESCUE” us.

Sidewinder! I just read this comment of yours,and I see a liberal,who doesn’t consider themself a liberal. Or I see some one trying to find an excuse for the way he voted in the last election. And I don’t care for the Bush year’s along with father,and the one between them. However if you look back at the elections in the last 100 year’s. The voter’s have always had a halfa–ed choice or no choice,or no choice at all. If you didn’t have the money behind you , you didn’t get elected. Now with that behinh us let’s get on with some more of your remarks. This president,has spent more money than the combined other presidents. We were already in debt over our head, and with his spending,he has not had to borrow that money. Kind of a foolish statement .I think ! As for as all the handshakes, and a–kissing,bowing going on with Obama oversea’s. Look at what all of the good it has done,also with backing the musslims. These people laugh at america now. The increased attemps, No problems with North Korea. No problems with Afganistan. No problem’s with Isreal I don’t have the best spelling in the world, I could go on for a week. For once look at Cuba agreeing, doesn’t that worry you? Chaves doesn’t that worry you? When I got out of service in 1967, the american people had signs on their lawns SERVICEMEN AND DOGS KEEP OFF THE GRASS. And I don’t give a dam what any of you think,we did do a good job over there. We did stop the advance of communisum over there. We did do some good in Iraq,Hussien is not there to kill anymore. We done a good job in Japan, but they found another way to beat us buy us, the same with China. But it was known at the time Korea was a bad idea to pull out.And we are still paying for that. I’m going to give up on this,not much need in stressing on this. But believe me all the freedom’s you give up,which it it much easier to give up, than ever get them back. Start making all of the dogooder politicion’s and liberal’s accountable for what they do and take. Sidewinder I’m sorry for using you as the one to vent out on. I didn’t mean for all of these comments to be directed at you, in which they are not.

But the fact remains that ISLAM means “SUBMISSION”.

Submit to God? Allah?

I know too that many times there are no direct interpertations of other languages to English, and many times the intent or fine points get lost.

But I don’t care what it stands for I’m not Muslim, and I’m not about to join them either.

Why don’t we all just learn to respect each others religious beliefs even if we don’t agree with them. If we don’t we’ll wind up with a situation like the Israelis have. Neither side respects the other, and the fighting never ends.

Roy
There are more than just 2 political idealogys. I’m not a Liberal. I’m not a traditional Conservative. Lets see if you can figure it out.
I’m not gonna hold my breath…

Quote from Roy: “Now with that behinh us let’s get on with some more of your remarks”
“This president,has spent more money than the combined other presidents.”

Roy…that second line was something I was quoting from someone else…. Do I think thats a stupid remark? Yes, thats why I quoted it and was responding to it. Didn’t you notice my remarks kinda seemed at odds with that?
Come on Roy…..Read the damn thing.

And this one: “and with his spending,he has not had to borrow that money.”
I don’t know what you are talking about. Obama borrowed a couple Trillion….

Roy, I don’t have to like Obama in order to defend him when he’s being reasonable. Some cultures bow, some shake hands, so what. There is nothing wrong with nations being friendly toward one another. Handshakes cost nothing.
The problem in the middle east, is that there are legions of idiots just like in America, who have no understanding of any other culture but their own. They are as confused about the US as people like you are about them.

Thats just a fact Roy…

And why should Chávez worry me? What he going to do?

Alright, Roy. I am getting it, you are all stressed out over this stuff. Don’t stress, we have no control over these things.

Listen if you want to understand Chávez, Iraq, and how America really works behind the scenes, pick up a copy of Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins. Its like $17.00 Amazon has it.

Heres an overview of the book:
Perkins writes that his economic projections cooked the books Enron-style to convince foreign governments to accept billions of dollars of loans from the World Bank and other institutions to build dams, airports, electric grids, and other infrastructure he knew they couldn’t afford. The loans were given on condition that construction and engineering contracts went to U.S. companies. Often, the money would simply be transferred from one bank account in Washington, D.C., to another one in New York or San Francisco. The deals were smoothed over with bribes for foreign officials, but it was the taxpayers in the foreign countries who had to pay back the loans. When their governments couldn’t do so, as was often the case, the U.S. or its henchmen at the World Bank or International Monetary Fund would step in and essentially place the country in trusteeship, dictating everything from its spending budget to security agreements and even its United Nations votes. It was, Perkins writes, a clever way for the U.S. to expand its “empire” at the expense of Third World citizens. While at times he seems a little overly focused on conspiracies, perhaps that’s not surprising considering the life he’s led.

I am just saying there is a very dirty side to the US that American know nothing about.

“Sidewinder I’m sorry for using you as the one to vent out on. I didn’t mean for all of these comments to be directed at you, in which they are not”

Thats alright….

Liberals care for the downtrodden? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

How about, liberals USE the downtrodden to garner votes and gain power.

Liberals care for nothing except power.

listen … as someone that was raised on a pew … I can say … that every group has its extremists … that said … politically confused as far as what … everything I stated is a valid point (and concerned) point of view … and you didnt even respond to the main points I made … like paying for someone that is illegal to go to the doc … and making way for the government to put you (or anyone) in jail because he doesn’t do it … illegals are getting a free ride … at the expense of an already strained country … and shaking hands with those who are by their leadership stance against everything our country has bled for … freedom … do you know what happens when people go against the government in countries like venezuela, columbia, china, vietnam and the like … do we really have anything to glean from countries such as these … their is a saying … even a little leaven will leaven the whole lump … a person becomes like those he associates … oh … and the fact that most people are afraid to speak out against obama … or did you miss the whole smearing of plumber joe …

politically confused is right … how can I begin to understand such infancy in the most powerful office not just in america … in the world …

Susie, sometimes it takes a while for the shoe to hit the floor. The economy was bad under Bush. We were running on consumer credit. Americans were piling up the debt, home equity loans, car loans, new mortgages, tapping out the credit cards. Thats not good….

Now, they don’t have the cash to spend and stimulate the economy. Bush pushed the housing bubble, and the lendiong industry made a fortune.

As far as the koran goes, I never read it. I hear its somewhat violent like, the Bible’s Eye for an Eye mentality. I know there are Christians that completely misinterpret the Bible. Some see the Bible as metaphors, some take it literally. The Koran may be violent, but muslims don’t have to be. Don’t get me wrong, I have no real love for those people, but I think there is a lot of misunderstanding on both sides.

They have always read the Koran, but they did not hate the West until a few decades ago. Much of it has been the result of the Ayetola. He was a Fundamentalist and took a literal interpretation.

That can change.

This jihad crap, its coming from within Western Nations, its not coming from the middle east. That alone makes me suspicious. I think jihad, although real, is window dressing for something else. And most Pakistanis hate Bin Laden. They say he’s CIA….

Geez Kate…
Not all Liberals run for office you know. Most do care about people. Catholics tend to be Liberal. Any idea why so many people are Liberals?
Libralism protects individual rights, that is a part of the appeal.

Before you tell me they don’t, do this…open another browser, get to Google and check it yourself.

“How about, liberals USE the downtrodden to garner votes and gain power.

Liberals care for nothing except power.” That is true when talking about all politicians.

Catholics now often tend to be liberals, since being infiltrated by socialists.

Most of my family is Catholic and, I assure you, they are still very conservative. Many Christian factions have moved away from traditional teachings and have embraced a more liberal mindset, while at the same time moving away from the Sprit of Christ.

I know of which I speak, because I once hung out in liberal circles. My experience is that, for all their talk of tolerance, they are only tolerant of those who agree with their thinking or have an anti-American bias. They are very intolerant of traditional Christianity and conservative thought.

Thank God I snapped out of it.

I think you are the one that is policitally confused. The current White House renter is doing EXACTLY what he promised – He would take this country down to its knees and be EXACTLY like SOCIALIST Europe. With the help of the “AMERICAN AXIS OF EVIL”, namely Pelosi, Reid and guess who – he is doing it.

American Money systems: Destroyed
American Health Care: Destroyed
American Military: in the process of Being Destroyed
American Leadership: Destroyed – (all he can do is apoligize for who we are.)
American Constitution: Destroyed
American Justice system: Destroyed
American Imigration Laws: Destoryed with total amnisity planned for more Atheist Liberal Democrat voters

I could go on, but you get the idea.

And, since you have asked – I am no Bush or Clinton lover either.

CRC

Sidewinder, On Religions that are “Control” driven–Its NOT a question of respecting each other. That is not what I implied. Of course I RESPECT a persons right to choose, IF it is truly a choice. I’m just surprised…as you seem like such a “Free Spirit”, a person who values FREEDOM & wants FREEDOM for them self. And it just SURPRISES me you would be “FINE” with someone who has NO FREEDOM, where something was forced on them, and they can’t leave….And it does not bother you. You have always sounded like you stood for FREEDOM…Just surprising is all.

Roylyn08 The American money system didn’t just get destroyed under Obama. Its been getting destroyed for a long time. Health Care has been in shambles for decades. I don’t see him destroying the military. And we haven’t had decent leadership in decades.

And don’t even talk to me about destroying the Constitution. The constitution has been taking hits for a long time. But the Bush Patroit Act was the biggest assault on the Bill of Rights I have ever seen.

You people are complaining of these things now….but where were you the past 8 -9 years? Asleep at the wheel. Somebody posted recently that they were pissed that now under Obama you can now be arrested and held without being charged for an indefinate amount of time. They are complaining about this NOW? Thats a provision of Bush’s Patroit Act.

Immigration…You’ve got to be kidding me..Fox News Thursday, January 08, 2004:
The massive new immigration initiative unveiled by the White House has Democrats and ethnic identity organizations accusing Republicans of election-year pandering, and has the Republican base wondering whether George W. Bush and the Republican Party has sold them out.

The initiative, which draws heavily on legislation already introduced in Congress by three Arizona Republicans, Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jeff Flake and Rep. Jim Kolbe, has two central components. It would provide a mechanism by which some U.S. businesses would be able to import an unlimited number of low-wage foreign workers, and it would allow most of the roughly 10 million illegal aliens already in the United States a means by which they (and their extended families) would be able to remain legally — and permanently — in the United States.

Advocates of strong enforcement of U.S. immigration laws charge that the new Bush plan is really a massive new amnesty for illegal aliens, in spite of repeated Bush administration assurances to the contrary.

My point is the contradiction among Republicans. When a Dem does it they scream, when their man does it, they go silent.

And Susie…I hear you. But thats their choice. Muslims want to live under that religion and system of government. Its their choice. Not ours. We should not force our beliefs on them, any more than they should force their beliefs on us.
When they want freedom, let them fight for it. Only then after they worked for it will they appreciate it.

People keep sayinghow bd thingswere under G. Bush. And they are right, the last 2 years of his presidency was a disaster. But what people forget is that the President is not in control of the country, Congress is. The best he can do is suggest legislation and veto it once if he does not like it.

He warned nuerous times tht freddie and fannie were a danger to the economy and needed to be restrained. Barney Frank made the statement that Congress should not ever think of getting involved with such companies that were doing so much good for the country. you know the results of that.

During Bushes last 2 years he was opposed on every front by a Democratic congress populated by socialist leaning senators and representatives. it was they who created the mess we are now in, and it’s getting worse even as Obama praises how well things are going.

Unemployment is still rising, and now with the new tax burdens the hung nCompanies for the Health Care bill, they are not going to hire as many people, and in most cases lay off to stay even. I was never hired by a poor person during my working career. So when you make the wealthy part of the poor, they surely wont be hiring anybody.

And buried in the new Healthcare bill in a gem. Any money that an employer puts out for an employee’s healthcare is to be listed on the employee’s W2 form as part of his gross income. So when it comes time to pay the taxman, the employee will have a higher gross income, be n a hgher tax bracket as well and have a big tax bill. So much for Free healthcare. the onlyones that will be getting free healthcare are those that do not contribute anything at all. go figure!!

Yes Bush did warn about that USN-Pops.

But then…

The Bush administration backed off proposed crackdowns on no-money-down, interest-only mortgages years before the economy collapsed, buckling to pressure from some of the same banks that have now failed. It ignored remarkably prescient warnings that foretold the financial meltdown, according to an Associated Press review of regulatory documents.

After that, the FBI warned of massive fraud within the lending industry.

Look it up dude…theres no excuse….
Nothing was done.

LOL!
That was a stupid statement American Conservative…LOL

They are going to “Convert” me? LOL! Well its been 40 something years, I am still in touch with all those guys….nothing yet…

Growing up, we discussed God, but never religion.

Its funny to me when the mentally challanged call others stupid….LOL!

I believe it is called ignorance and stupidity. And there is no known cure for either..

Sidewinder! wheh you said Al, I went back and read the artical again! then foolish me I read the comment from AL. I was thinking about Al Sharpton, who along with Jesse Jackson,and let’s not leave the president out,however with his college professor, he’s not quite as bad,as he was but if you think something,you might as well say it. They are some of the biggest racial profilers around. And if what they do is not racial,you are bkind in one eye,and can’t see out of the other one. I agree with you on McCain. But what they have running in Arizona, I sure as hell put them all in the same catagory. Let’s say if anyone from the last election on, We need to make sure if they talk the talk,they walk the walk!

What did I do to deserve Obama and his care?