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Arizona Si, Obama No!

May 14, 2010 by  

Arizona Si, Obama No!

Bloodshed! Violence! Riots! Threats!

That’s been the reaction from the racists of La Raza, and a number of other self-proclaimed do-gooders, who claim to be outraged that the good citizens of Arizona have the unmitigated gall to do what their Federal government should be doing for them—protecting them from an alien invasion.

I have a lot to say about this whole contrived crisis, as you might imagine. And I hope you do, too. That’s what the “comments” section at the end of this column is for.

But before I do, I have one introductory item I must mention. And that is to congratulate the law-enforcement officials in New York City and environs who were so quick to identify and arrest Faisal Shahzad, the would-be terrorist who tried to blow up part of Times Square and several innocent civilians.

As many of you know, I’m not a huge fan of our government’s response to the Islamofascists who want to kill us. I sometimes suspect we’d be better off without the Department of Homeland Security, their minions in the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), the unconstitutional abuses of the USA PATRIOT Act and much more. But I have to say the people charged with protecting us seem to have done a great job this time. Thanks, everyone. (And thanks, too, that the only suicidal jihadists our enemies can attract seem to be as dumb as rocks. That certainly helps.)

And now, back to the current crisis.

Do you remember back in 1986, when Ronald Reagan proposed and Congress approved the Immigration Reform and Control Act? That legislation was supposed to solve the immigration crisis once and for all. It granted amnesty to 2.7 million “undocumented workers” then living in the United States. We were told this would set them on the path to becoming law-abiding, English-speaking, tax-paying citizens.

We were also assured that the flood of illegal immigration into this country would be stopped. Congress subsequently approved legislation to build a massive wall along the U.S.-Mexican border and to hire thousands of additional agents for the Border Patrol.

None of this happened. Not a single thing we were promised 24 years ago came true.

Instead, the flood of illegals into this country became a tsunami. Where we once had 4 million to 5 million illegal immigrants, we’re now told the correct number is somewhere between 12 million and 20 million. The number is several times higher than a pessimist’s worst prediction two decades ago. Even more shocking is that responsible authorities can’t tell us the right number to the nearest million—or even the nearest 5 million.

Whatever the correct number, it’s enough to overwhelm our schools, our hospitals, our prisons and our law enforcement officials wherever illegal aliens settle in any significant numbers.

This is not immigration. It’s an invasion. And we need to deal with it as such.

This is not just my opinion. It’s what our Constitution says. Article IV, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution clearly states, “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a republican form of government, and … shall protect each of them against invasion….”

Please note that the Constitution does not specify a military invasion or the use of arms. No, it simply says “invasion.” And if that is not what we are facing, what is it?

Shame on President Obama for refusing to do his constitutional duty to protect us from this unlawful invasion. Shame on Congress for refusing to act to defend us.

And congratulations to the people of Arizona who acted wisely and responsibly (and, may I point out, legally and constitutionally) to do what our Federal government has refused to do—that is, to protect their citizens and enforce the law.

It is amazing to me, and disgusting, too, to see how many liberal do-gooders out there are actively encouraging lawbreakers to break more laws. Sadly, I even put Obama in this category.

Let’s not let them get away with it.

Let’s demand that Congress pass legislation that will stop the invasion and demand the President enforce it. Will that mean hiring 12,000 new border guards, as President Bush once promised to do? Fine. Let’s do it. Hire them, train them and give them all the latest high-tech goodies (and old tech stuff, too, such as the vehicles, floodlights and weapons) to do the job.

Will that mean building a wall along the border with Mexico, stretching from California to Texas? Then appropriate the money and let’s finish building the darned thing.

In addition, we must tell the government of Mexico that we require its cooperation in halting the tidal wave of illegal immigration pouring out of their country—a tidal wave they have been actively encouraging. That must stop. This is not a request; this is a condition for our continuing friendship.

We must also warn the people of Mexico (and their friends, family and allies in our country) that the U.S. is going to enforce its laws. Make it clear that we will no longer look the other way or compromise on enforcing our rules and regulations. There will be no way across the border except legally. Period.

And most important of all: We must demand that our government do whatever needs to be done to secure our borders. No more excuses. No more delays. The time to act is now.

There is much more that could and should be said on this subject. As we move to resolve this crisis, let’s make sure that illegal aliens who knowingly and deliberately broke our laws aren’t given a better deal than all those applicants for entry who have played by the rules.

Let’s make it our choice who gets to come here—when, from where, how many and for how long. If we need more temporary workers, fine. Let’s decide how many can come, how long they can stay and what they must do (and not do) while they’re here.

And let’s also insist that we get to decide what to do about the millions of illegals who are already here. I’ll agree that if they’ve been law-abiding, tax-paying contributors to our society since they arrived, that deserves some consideration. But just because someone got away with a crime for years doesn’t mean they’ve earned a free pass to citizenship.

All of these issues, and more, we can debate and decide later on. For now, there is only one thing that must be done. We must secure our borders.

If you agree, then there are two things you can do. First, forward this column to several other friends and family members. Urge them to read it, to act on it and to pass it on to others.

Two, contact the three people in Washington who have been elected to represent you—your two Senators and one Representative. It takes only a moment to call their office, or send them an email, and tell them, “Before doing anything to fix the immigration mess, I demand that you secure our borders. If you won’t help stop the invasion of our country, I will elect someone who will.”

If you’re not sure how to contact your congressmen (or don’t know who they are), there’s an easy-to-use website called Contacting the Congress that will give you this information in moments. When you get to the site simply enter your address and the contact information for your representatives in Congress will appear.

It isn’t often you get an opportunity to help decide the kind of country your children and your children’s children will live in. This is one of them. So please do it now, while you’re thinking about it. And while we still have time.

Meanwhile, if you live in Arizona, please accept my congratulations on what your government is trying to do. And my condolences on the way you’re being treated by others, from the president of the U.S. to the racist rabble-rousers of La Raza.

If you don’t live in the Grand Canyon State but know someone who does, please tell them they are not alone in this battle. The vast majority of American people share their concerns. Urge them to stand fast while we rally others behind them.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

—Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • vicki

    Living in South Texas, I can see first hand what is happening. No other country in the world leaves their borders open like the U.S. Fortunately, you need an i.d. to be able to vote, and most of the people coming illegally don’t have the intelligence or the courage to try and vote here, for fear of getting deported. But, they are costing us too much money by taking over our schools and hospitals. Our government needs to be voted out of office. We just need to wipe the slate clean. Hopefully we can get people in office who care about this great nation, and will do what is necessary to regain our country.

    • vic 1985

      You need fake papers i,e., s.s.#: I.D. for voting, etc, etc. Throw a little money to the right people and they will get them for you.
      Even the counterfiters need to make some extra money in this economy.
      Their presses are hoping for some kind of new papers required by the illegals.
      Years ago when the people were crying, “get your troops out of Iraq”, the best reply to them is still the best idea to come along.
      Okay, we can pull all of our troops and equiptment back to America and put them to the best use ever. Position them completly around ALL of our borders and prevent ANYONE from entering illegaly.
      It was a good idea then, and it sounds even better today.

    • Vicki

      Interesting There are now 2 Vicki’s posting in this thread cause I do not live in the great state of Texas

    • Hugh Jordin

      Southern California is experiencing the same problems. In some schools it would be a challenge to find a student (or a teacher, for that matter) who speaks fluent English. I was doing some work in a downtown school and the hostile looks toward an old gringo were constant.

      Why must we print ballots in English and Spanish, as well as every other government document?… we spend tax payer dollars for a group that is uninterested in assimilating and considers California “Occupied Mexico”. No other group of immigrants from any other country gets or even asks for this privilege. They want to be here and get with our culture without forgetting pride in their background. They do not want to change our country into where they came from. That’s why they left.

      It seems that the majority of those parading for “immigrants rights” are actually parading to bring more of their own people here, legally or illegally, out breed us, drain our resources, and create the same mess that exists south of the border.

  • Robin

    I agree 100% with Clyde. Obama has an agenda. Let’s add Union’s to the list of voters to reassure his election!
    What seems to be lost by so many people is the fact that entering a country illegally IS ILLEGAL!
    Obama should be facing the nation and helping us to come together. Instead, he adds fuel to the fire by stating that police will randomly stop someone that looks hispanic. That is totally wrong and he obviously does not read nor comprehend the meaning of this FEDERAL LAW that his administration has chosen not to follow. I applaud Arizona for providing for “the common defense” of it’s people.

    • timr

      Robin….Do you mean the same UNIONS that guaranteed a 40 hour work week for you??……..and over-tome pay, and benefits????…….

  • Mick for thought

    I must be up early today to be making the second comment of the day. As I have said previously I am not a liberal just I fella that reads, learns and remembers.
    As I understand this article every administrations since and including Reagan’s has failed to do the job. Seems interesting that this will all fall on Obama’s shoulders after all these years. So, yes sure it is a big problem and needs to be dealt with. I suspect it will be within this next year and by then it will be the 2nd or 3rd major legislation he has taken on that none of his predecessors managed to do.
    As far as the AZ law goes, after the 2 critical amendments made, it is much more tolerable. My only hope is that it does not stimulate some massive vigilante movement that results in the injury or death of an American of Mexican descent because he does not have any papers other than his drivers license and social security card. Under the last iteration of the law I perused that ID is not sufficient for proof of citizenship.
    Good morning to all. I have to get ready for work and may make some more comments late tonight when I get home. By the way, by the looks of some of these frequent posts form a almost a dozen individuals I wonder where they get the time to make all of these posts. Must have great bosses to let them take so many breaks in their work day to type a thousand words on this blog.

    • Mick for thought

      Wow, gues i was not 2nd. Lots of people type faster than I.

      • Right Wing

        The posting order is time dependent and does not account for time zone differences. It confuses the order and really should be organized by time stamp on one time zone.

      • Mick for thought

        Thanks RW. Good night, gotta work this weekend also.

    • Conservative

      Mick:

      Obama wanted the job and knew what he was getting into. The failures of his predecessors are no excuse for his being held to a simple standard: doing his sworn duty. As far as people getting hurt is concerned: I don’t think that’s our problem. Illegals are criminals and must suffer the consequences. If I were president, I’d round up all of the illegals and send them back to where the came from. If their native governments refused to accept them, I’d put them into internment camps and use them for unpaid labor. I’ll bet that would spur them to find a way to sneak back into their own countries.

      In his inaugural speech, Mexican president Calderon threatened the United States. He said that Mexico will not tolerate the mistreatment its citizens in the United States. I would like to see what the leader of that shitty little country would do if my policies were carried out. Invade? With what, the drug dealers? They rule Mexico now.

      • Mick for thought

        Reread my post. i was talking about American citizens of Mexican heritage.

    • larryoh

      YOU HAVE THE LONGEST POST I HAVE READ. I GUESS YOUR UNEMPLOYED.I HOPE NOT, OHDUMBO NEEDS A FRIEND THAT IS STILL WORKING TO SUPPORT HIM.

      • kate8

        The libs posting here are employed by ACORN and/or SEIU to post on more conservative blog sites. The post under several names. They post during business hours, M – F, and their rhetoric and tone are pretty much the same.

        They are paid (by taxpayer money) to be disruptive and to agitate. Usually, I just skip their posts.

      • timr

        So Kate8…you wish only to converse with people who agree with you……….???………Where are you from, Wyoming???

      • JC

        Bogoted statement if ever there was one.

      • Mick for thought

        Nope, just up early. Gainfully employed for 33 years and counting with 20 years as an American soldier. Now my 12 hour day is over and I am gonna head home. Night all.

    • Right Wing

      Leads me to believe that since the liberal antagonists haven’t shown up yet that most are on the “left coast”.

    • JeffH

      …sneaky Mft says: ” My only hope is that it does not stimulate some massive vigilante movement that results in the injury or death of an American of Mexican descent because he does not have any papers other than his drivers license and social security card. Under the last iteration of the law I perused that ID is not sufficient for proof of citizenship”

      It is obvious you are familiar with Alinsky’s 11th rule and doing a little promotion of your own:
      “If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside… every positive has its negative.”

      • Mick for thought

        Not sneaky, just thinking and a little worried. Lot folks trying to read between my lines. I am pretty succinct in my thoughts and writings. Please don’t suppose you know what I am thinking it just makes you look a bit paranoid.

      • JeffH

        Sorry Mick, I just call em as I see em.

    • Sharon

      Mick, your comments are interesting; however you are way off base sir!I have to admit Obuma has pushed through a lot of legislation. The problem is, not too many people want these things shoved down their throats. The government is destroying this country, and when you, and the other far left liberals realize this, it will be too late to do anything about it.Have you ever read a history book? I don’t mean the ones being published now, I mean real history books that were around before they were changed by Woodrow Wilson. I highly doubt it, or you would think before you make the comments that you have made. By the way, I am 68 years and, and have worked hard all my life to earn the right to retire. Have you ever heard of that? The younger generation doesn’t know anything about our founders. I should say the truth about the founders, because history has been so distorted, that they never learned the truth. They were smart enough, and fortunate enough to be guided by divine providence. This country was founded on Christian principles, and they were wise enough to realize that something like what is going on now would happen in the future. That is why the constitution was written in the first place. You better get a copy and read it. The people in power now are progressive atheists, and what they need to transform this country is happening right now. Undermine our faith and religion, undermine our constitution, and undermine our founding fathers. Read it and weep, because our beautiful country is under attack, by sly, ruthless, and heathen people. May God bless all of us, and make them see the light before it’s too late. Praise be to God!!!!!

      • Save America Susie

        Sharon, Good points! I have a good quote for you my friend sent me before the HC Bill passed:

        “Why should they push BO’s HC Bill through in 3 -4 weeks when it took him 6 months to pick out the family dog?”

  • David

    Unfortunately for Arizona most of the country is not living with their problem. So it has gone unnoticed to many for years. I fully support Arizona and their effort to close our border, something the federal government has willfully not done. The more people are dependant on government the more power government has. We have reach a serious tipping point in this nation. Government employees out weigh private employees, SS is paying out more than it takes it for the first time, our money supply has be quadrupled in 1 short year, the entitled out weigh the producers, all this feeds into the majority(now the entitled) looking to the government to solve the problems. Yet the government only serves to make the problems worse.
    I don’t know where this country is headed but Obama is determined in driving it down the wrong road. This November will be the most important election in the history of our country. If we don’t act now to enforce the constitution, our current lawmakers will all but make it just another piece of historical paper. Hoorah for Arizona for taking up the battle to start the wave of change. I hope it catches on.

    • L.B.

      As a senior citizen from Arizona, I hope this new law will keep the coyotes from bringing in illegals. A few years ago, numerous illegals were dumped in my neighborhood in Tucson by a coyote. These people had no water and went from house to house begging for a drink of water. That experience frightened the residents and sent the illegals back to Mexico. The only one who benefited was the coyote who collected money from the Mexican citizens to bring them to the US.

  • http://PersonalLibertydigest Barry Boyce

    I applaud the governor of Arizona for doing what the people have been asking for for years. Having lived in Az for many years & trying to return, I am behind them 100%. All of the people yelling it’s unconstitutional need to go back and re-read the constitution.
    But for those people, have them take in (1) illegal alien for every person in their household and provide and ensure they become lawful…
    bet none of them would do it!

    “GOD BLESS AMERICA”

    • Mick for thought

      If you voted. You put them there. Your elected representative.

    • http://n/a 2WarAbnVet

      Yes, I voted! I voted against the Marxist/socialists. Unfortunately there were so many true believers, starry eyed optimists, and gullible ignoramuses at the polls that my vote meant nothing.

      • Mick for thought

        So, keep voting. Perhaps your man/woman will win. curious how people get so irate when democracy did not agree with their choice.

      • JeffH

        …spewing your liberal bias again…

      • rjg

        Voting is a liberal bias?

      • Mick for thought

        Nope, just observing. Did you see that comment that voting is a liberal bias. Makes me wonder what his option would be to voting? I thought that was what we republics/democracies do.

      • rjg

        Mick

        Agreed. It happens here in canada as well. The conservatives win the liberals get upset, the liberals win then the conservatives are upset.
        And so it goes.

      • concerned citizen

        i agree… keep voting – at least until we all realize that voting no longer works…

      • Vicki

        The problem with democracy is that it is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Or as a very colorful Mel Gibson says in “The Patriot”

        “Would you tell me please, Mr. Howard… why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away?”

        You see Mick, Our forefathers already knew quite well the evils of democracy. To that end they worked to form a representative government with something truly unusual. A Constitution that strictly limits what that government can do no matter how the representatives vote.

        Even that was not enough. So the forefathers added 10 amendments to the Constitution to further emphasize what the government could NOT do. That of course would be the “Bill of Rights.”

        So Tell me Mick. why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away?

        -Vicki-

  • http://Boblivingston Glen in Augusta

    I agree with everything you said in the article, except keep some powder dry, It should read keep all your powder dry, you’ll need it.

  • Michael

    Washington is nothing more then a den of thieves. What is needed is for every State/Country to secede from the union. It’s up to the people in this country to act. The federial goverment is run by a satanic forgein entity and can’t do anything morally right. Our military is not right as well. We can print our own money. This country will fail miserably. God bless the good People of this country.

  • Ron

    I support the action of the AZ governor. If our current president and his admin will not act to make our nation safer, then a State of this country should act to protect itself.

    For those illegal aliens whom want to stay, they should adapt to our country’s ways (i.e. become legal citizens, speak English, pay taxes, etc.). Why should one ethnic group have special priledges than the others?

  • Larry

    I agree with Arizona — enforce the law! Obama’s agenda is to destroy America along with the backing of the Yellow Belly’s in Congress/Senate. No longer do we have men/women in political office in the Federal Government whom have the guts or stamina to stand up for the Constitution and say NO to Obama and his Socialist white house.
    It is time for the Silent Majority to stand up and take our Government back and let Obama know that he can leave, go back to Kenya where he was born!
    And yes, I will keep my powder dry!

  • Loral Orow

    I’m so tired of this administration and their rampant disregard for the citizens voice. They do whatever they want and then say “I listened to the people”, as Obama said after passing the Health Care bill that no one wanted. What can we do except voice our concerns? The man has all the power and his desire seems to be to destroy our country. Outside of writing our Representatives and passing emails, we seem to be stuck with this. The so-called Liberals feel so far above the average citizen that they know what’s right, no matter what we say. I think our country is gone – it’s just a matter of time.

    • Jery Ziemski

      I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here – der Kleine Fuehrer didn’t listen to the American people re healthcare, so why will he listen about illegal aliens? Or anything else?

      Perhaps it’s because he’s part of the movement that wishes to see the US, Canada and Mexico merged as some sort of ‘North-American Union”…

    • timr

      Loral, what bothers you, is that our country is not as WHITE anymore, and it scares you do death…………doesn’t it??

      • JC

        Race Card again! Boy you really don’t have much to say other than being a frothing at the mouth racist your “own” self do ya?

      • timr

        I have plenty to say JC……….and NO, I’m not going to back down and let Red necks take over this country………….All this White Anger with the Tea Partyers nad blogs like this, has been nothing but viceral to this President……..and all because…….he isn’t one of us………..Isn’t that what you people say…….He ISN’T one of us……….????????… personally don’t agree with all of Obama’s policies, but the fact that he’s been attacked the minute he entered office, and, like I said, the WAY he’s been attacked, I truly believe that some form of racism has bubbled to the surface……….JC, have you EVER studied, truly, Race in America?? Or do you just turn a Blind eye to it……….because it’s still there, brother………..I live in perhaps the most segregated City in the Country, and I can tell you firsthand, that it exists…………Is it everything, NO……..but it has reared-it’s-ugly-head, since Obama took office……….

      • libertytrain

        You must live in Boston —

  • valricoslash

    Personally, I think that Arizona should call up the State’s National Guard and send them to the border. This situation is no different than a natural disaster that the Guard would be called up to assit with. And to the cities of LA and Boston. I am sure that Arizona won’t miss your business because the money they will be saving by forcin the illegals out will more than compensate for the few bucks you spend there. In fact, they might start doing more business becuase organizations won’t be affraid to go there due to a reduction in crime by the illegals. So hooray for Arizon and any other state that adopts similar legislation.

  • kotoc

    I only wish ALL the border states would follow Arizona’s example and implement the same laws regarding illegals. I read an article yesterday that the president of Mexico is angry because a lot of illegals are going back to Mexico, and it puts a burden on THEIR country. Ha ha!! Oh, if only everyone had the guts to do what should have been done a long time ago… put a STOP to illegal immigrants taking our tax dollars and our jobs. I refuse to learn Spanish to placate them, too. I wish they would ALL go back to Mexico.

  • http://hihdalh@uwstout.edu Rod Hildahl

    All of this makes sense if we realize and admit that the politicians, ( mostly liberal, socialist, demoocrats, LSD) ) want this invasion and the people of Arizona be damned. They want the votes,because I can guarantee that these illgals will be voting Deomcrat this November. And don’t be so gullible to think that would be illegal !!When did the Dems ever concern themselves with the law, be it the Constitution or state laws ? And that idiot, Holder finally got nailed Thursday and admitted he had never read the Arizona bill. And the law suit he wants to launch against the people of Arizona has the full backing and foreknowlege of Obama. These liberal, elitists from DC and NYC have not a clue how the common man and woman outside the Northeast think about this nor do they care. These votes are so desparately needed because the Dems have either aborted their potential voters these past decades or alienated their followers to the point of voting Independent, Republican or dropping out ot the political scene entirely. Even my sister , a rabid Democrat, is against this….however she still fails to make the connection with the radical views of the Democratic party and most of the problems in this country.

    • Jiim

      LOL. … yet imagine had the Internet existed some 160 yrs ago and you would all be writing about all the poor immigrants being brought in for their cheap labor and for their alcoholism, drugs and crime they brought with them. Of course I am talking about the Irish gangs or perhaps the Chinese tongs or is it the Italian mafia?

      You all seem to miss the point as to who is really behind bringing in this cheap labor … it is and always has been Big Business and they don’t nor have they ever cared how this effects the American workers that are already here. So they toss their money at whichever party is in power and just sit back raking in the profits while we all fight over who is to blame. Secure in the knowledge that there scam has been working this long … why worry that anyone will change it anytime soon!

      • gregory

        HEY JIM! I WORK FOR ONE OF THE LARGEST FREE MARKET CORPS IN THE WORLD, AND TO DATE WE HAVE NEVER HIRED ANY ILLEAGLE CRIMANALS, I KNOW BECAUSE IM IN THE POSITION IN THE COMPANY TO KNOW.. SPEW YOUR ANTI FREE MARKET CRAP TO THE PUBLIC SCREWAL SYSTEM, THEY WILL BUY IT..

      • JeffH

        gregory, well said. I to hired for my “free market” company and one requirement was to verify background and documentation. The company moved out of California in 1993…due to over-regulation.

      • Cowboy

        Greg:
        What part of GE do you work for?
        From what I saw when I was at one of the GE plants (that has bee shut down and moved off shore now) they imported 15-20% of the work force (with green cards) to lower the wages of the US citizen workers.

      • gregory

        HOWDY COWBOY, you didn’t even guess close to whom i work for, i would never work for a company like G.E, as they are in bed with the government wich would explain why you have seen there bad business and hiring practices, ya see anytime a company gets involved with the government–they seem to act imoral like the government, thus a agenda to tear down free market busines’s like the one im involved with, the world is verry big and im sire most folks in the free market systems have been preasured by government to go the imoral rout, but our corp has just said NO.. AND FOR THE MATTER OF COWBOY–i grew up on a large ranch and unlike other ranchers we would not ever hire an illeagle, we felt it was not fair to the youth of the comunity to take away the oppertunity of having a summer job and make some change to take there girlfriends out to dinner and a movie, we felt it was right to keep the money in the community and not have it just sent back to mexico, in plain words we would have never hired a non citizen…YA I USED TO BE A BULL RIDER…

      • Cowboy

        Greg:
        I am sorry that I guessed the wrong company that you worked for (I did not mean to offend you). I agree 100% with you about GE and any other company that works with/under the government. As you noted GE is in bed with the past and the current administration. That is one of the reasons I quit working for them. I do commend you on your ethics and very fine background. I tried riding bulls for a couple of years but I was just not any good at it (and I was not any better with bronco’s either). Keep a tight cinch and upright in the saddle.

      • Cathy

        My goodness…I presume that spelling is not something you need for your job.

      • gregory

        yea i love my spell check, not working at this time–so sorry…
        im sure you understand what i was saying as my 4 year old sure does!!
        and thats more important than your crass and smug observation,are you perfect in your spelling? CAST THAT STONE WILL YA, SMARTY!!

        RANCHERS UNITE!

      • Jana

        Cathy,
        My husband is not good at spelling. I am his spell check. However, he has dislexia and has overcome so much. He is truly one of the smartest men I know, and most certainly the wisest man I know. His mathmatical skills are way above mine. The lack of proper spelling does not always indicate someone’s intelligence.

      • Jana

        Cathy,
        And PS, I don’t know Gregory, so he is not my dh. :)

      • DaveH

        First of all, I don’t believe Illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay in this country. But having said that, blaming illegals for our economic problems is just a Red Herring. Hong Kong has one of the highest population densities on this Earth, and yet they have a robust economy. Their total government spending in relation to their GDP is less than half of ours.
        Our problems exist because we have a Big Unproductive Government draining our Financial Resources. And they divert our attention from that fact with all these sideshows.
        We have had tremendous advancements in productivity in the last 20 years, yet we still struggle. Why is that? Why has the purchasing power of our money decreased dramatically in those 20 years? Because, our Government just keeps increasing in size is why. When are folks going to wake up and realize all that Big Government protection is costing us more than it’s saving us?
        Vote Libertarian, the only party with the Huevos to get us back our Freedom and prosperity:
        http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      • Cowboy

        Very well said Dave.
        One thing or area that you missed pointing out is that with the over size goverment (and spending) the PER’s that we the tax payers are also having to pay for. If I remember correctly the last artical that I saw indicated that over 55% of the working public works for the goverment (city, county, state or fed’s).

      • DaveH

        I have seen figures of about 20% that work for government on all levels, but if we consider the fact that Government spending is about 37% of GDP, it stands to reason that they are controlling about 37% of the economy.
        http://www.heritage.org/index/country/UnitedStates

        On top of that there is a great loss of productivity as a result of burdensome regulations that usually don’t accomplish anything more than costing the complying businesses more money.

      • Jana

        DaveH,
        I see what you are saying, but in Hong Kong even though it is super densly populated, they are very productive, and wouldn’t they all pay taxes? The illegals do drain off of us, as they use our pulic school systems, our hospitals, and even housing. Many do not pay taxes, and then they send a portion of their money back “home” wherever that might be. Another thing, they live up to 10 families in a house at a time.
        My neice lives in a neighborhood that has in the past 3 years become a less desireable place to live because of this fact. The neighbors got together and called the Sherriffs office because children across the street were outside playing at midnight and making a lot of noise. This is a small community outside the city limits. They use sceptic systems, and these uhhh neighbors?? sceptic system was stinking up the whole neighborhood as there were 30 people living in this house. The Deputy reported to my neice and told her it was filthy in that house. Commodes had overflowed and no one did anything about it. YUK.

        I hear people say the food industry would go downhill if it weren’t for the illegals. YUK, with their lack of cleanliness skills I don’t want them cooking or cleaning at any restaurant that I would go to, or fast food place. I haven’t been going out to eat recently!
        One thing I do know for sure is that Mexico distributes pamphlets to their citizens telling them “how” to come to the U.S. and “what” they can get for free here as well as “how” to get it for free.

      • DaveH

        I will repeat, Jana, that I don’t condone people entering our country illegally. But I don’t believe they are receiving any more than they are giving (through their labor). Many of those illegals pay payroll taxes that they will never receive the benefit from as they are not documented (illegal’s don’t get tax refunds, they don’t get Social Security, etc.).
        The illegals (again, I don’t condone illegal entry) are not the reason for our bad economy. Big Government is the reason for our bad economy. We need to put the blame where it belongs.

      • Jana

        DavH,

        I do realize that you don’t condone anyone coming into our country illegally, and I do agree with you that our Government is the major problem for our economy being so bad. However I do know first hand that the illegals aren’t helping the matter either.

        Something that a lot of people don’t realize is that the children go by different last names. They often take their mother’s last name as well as their father’s. In doing business with Hispanics, (not all illegal) they would come in and give one set of names and then the next time they come in they give the other set of names. They also do this in registereing for different types of aid from our government. As I said before, they come into this country fully armed with knowledge of their “rights” and how to go about getting them.

        In reality though, if our elected officials would represent us, the citizens of this country instead of the eillegals and themselves, our economy would be in a lot better shape.

        I will repeat, Jana, that I don’t condone people entering our country illegally. But I don’t believe they are receiving any more than they are giving (through their labor). Many of those illegals pay payroll taxes that they will never receive the benefit from as they are not documented (illegal’s don’t get tax refunds, they don’t get Social Security, etc.).
        The illegals (again, I don’t condone illegal entry) are not the reason for our bad economy. Big Government is the reason for our bad economy. We need to put the blame where it belongs.

      • Jana

        DaveH,
        The last part of that post is what I copied from yours (so I could remember what you said without having to search for the post) and I forgot to delete it. LOL

      • Sharon

        Jim, I understand where you’re coming from; however I have to disagree with you. I have first hand knowledge, because my grandparents immigrated here from Italy. They left the country to get away from an oppressive government such as this country is slowly becoming. They were not brought here by big business. The fact is they worked in coal mines, and they worked hard, and earned their way, and they also learned the language. They never got handouts from the government, nor did they expect something for nothing, and by the way they became legal citizens, and, had respect for our government, our flag,and other people. You sound like a young person who has been indoctrinated to believe only what is taught in public schools nowadays. Why would you or any red blooded American think that European forms of government would work here, when it never in the history of the world has ever worked.

  • Melvin Hirtzel

    These people that are raising cane are NOT listening… The legal has no worry if they act like the rest of the citizens of the US. The freebie’s have to stop for Illegals… Plain and Simple… And that is the main problem for the Liberal media and the present in power party…

    • DaveH

      The Freebies need to stop for illegals and legals. It is not the Government’s money to give. Only people at the local levels know who deserves help and who doesn’t. I’m talking about Voluntary help.

  • Wilbert Wahlslanger

    La Raza is indeed a racist and fascist organization. They are behind most of this mischief. I lived on the Mexican border for nine years during which time I served as an immigration officer, both Border Patrol and Inspections at the Port of Entry in Calexico. Many of my colleagues and friends were and are Mexican Americans. If many people think that La Raza speaks for the majority of Mexican Americans, they are being misled by these Marxist advocates.

    • chelo

      and don’t forget mecha, im familiar with those groupies, i joined to learn about mexican culture etc. All i learned was that white people stole our land and we are entitled to it, i don’t know the end of it, because this mexican girl was not part of the team.

  • Dennis Wyman

    In Response to the boycott of Arizona from L.A. Maybe Arizona should stop selling L.A. Power and water.
    D.

  • cheryll

    Make it where they can’t send funds back to Mexico to their families, and then see how many want to stay. They are breaking the law, what part of illegal doesn’t this government understand. If they go through the criteria of becoming a citizen, learn to speak english, I have no problem then.

  • Robin from Arcadia, IN

    A great column! Yes, it is an invasion and Arizona is doing the right thing. Our Federal Government has had this issue on the back burner for too long. We do not need a ‘study’ to find out what needs to be done. Arizona is already on the right path.

    I find it inconceivable that our current administration ignores the will of the people. They passed a health care bill we didn’t want. They are looking to add a VAT to our already taxed too much lives. They want to pass cap and trade, which again will put many into a hardship situation. Now we are saying stop the invasion! Let’s see how they react to this… Anybody want to guess how this will turn out?

  • Bill UpNorth

    Folks, our luck is running out in this Country! We have these idiots trying to light their shoes, panties, SUVs and so on and they all can’t get it right… yet. Problem is that they are persistent and our forces have not stopped them… yet.

    The overflow from the Mexican border has gotten past the crisis stage and has entered the disaster phase. Get your needed supplies NOW before everything is banned due to the signing of an Executive Order by our faux President. Once that happens the only thing left is the pitchfork in the streets!

    Get busy, plan it out, think and get moving. Time is very short. When they pull the plug it’s too late.

    • chelo

      that is right, if someone is going to light something, best be big, and hopefully obama’s a,,,,,is near by….oops

  • William Nitram

    Bravo to the leaders of the people of Arizona. We need people of their character in D.C. If I could afford a vacation I would travel to Arizona to support the people. This is not about racism. This is about upholding the Constitution for legal Americans of any nationality.

    • Robert Wayne

      I couldn’t agree with you more William. I’d vote for Jan Brewer, governor of Arizona in a heartbeat if she were running for president. As for these left wing politicians who are against American citizens and for the illegal invasion of this country, I consider them worthless traitors. And they deserve the same fate as any other traitor, a noose around their collective necks made with some good strong rope. The same goes for business leaders who hire these illegal invaders.

    • chelo

      Illegal aliens are dreaming that one day calif. arizona and texas will be taken back by mexico, poor buckaroos.

  • Roselover

    Citizens of Arizone have shown tremendous courage by passing the immigration bill which as far as I can tell mirrors the federal law. Hats of to the citizens of Arizona. People of each state have the right to expect their government to protect them and it is clear our federal government has no intention of doing this, either from the invasion on our Southern border or the intent of Islamic Fascists to kill or subjugate every American to their Sharia Law.
    Other states should enact their own version of the law Arizona just passed. I understand on the border there are signs saying that Goshen-Elkhart,Indiana are welcoming to illegals, so go there. These two cities are only 30-40 miles from my home. People who want to decry the Arizona law need to stuff it where the Sun doesn’t shine. Being nice here. I am angry and fast becoming enraged at the atitude of these people who think our laws can be broken. If we allow one law to be broken then we lose respect from other countries and it puts the lie to the statement, “We are a nation of Laws”. Aren’t these people aware of the tough immigration laws of Mexico? If they don’t know what happens to illegals in Mexico then they need education. I wish someone would put an ad out stating the immigration laws of Mexico and tell Mexico to tell their people to honor our country and stay out. We welcome immigrants with open arms but only if they come here the honorable way and not sneak in and abuse us. This is what they are doing, abusing American citizens and our country and it needs to be stopped.

  • Rick Benson

    The hypocrisy and stench of Obama’s politics is overwhelming. This imposter-in-chief refuses to do his sworn duty, fans the flames of racism, and assails a state for enforcing existing laws protecting its citizens from anarchy.

    • timr

      ….it’s angry White trash like yourself, who are fanning the flames of Racisism…………Go pur you Hood back on, and crawl back into your Trailer park, or your Ranch in Wyoming…………..

      • libertytrain

        more racist commentary from you?

      • JC

        This guy is yelling racist longer and louder than anyone I’ve seen here. I guess its a personal pursuit for him. Got to keep that ol Racist fire lit eh Tim?

      • timr

        I don’t deny or condone racist remarks, and the one’s being thrown at our President are Racist, many of them…..so don’t pretend it doesn’t exist, because to do so, is insulting………and do you honestly think that flag waving, pretend patriots like yourselves, would admit to ANY racism in this Country??????………NO WAY, not on this “Liberty” blog………..

      • timr

        It’s still there JC, and it’s still lit………..The minute Obama took office…………and it’s the fact that people disagree with his policies…….it’s HOW, they are disagreeing with his policies,and his Race and his backround, and ethnic makeup…………it’s all over, but someone like you wouldn’t notice it, because your’e one of the one’s perpetrating it……..

      • libertytrain

        timr – while racism does sadly still exist the world over, the only people I’ve heard continually crying racist are the leftist. Why, I don’t know. Too young perhaps to remember how many of us labored against it in the 60′s? I don’t know – I can’t begin to imagine what goes through your inexperienced mind.

      • timr

        Hey………For your feebled imagination, I’ve worked for YEARS in inner City and Black neighborhoods………..and maybe the Left cares about race, because the Right has denied it’s exsistence for YEARS…………YOU don’t want to talk about it…….You admit that it’s there, yet you allow your buddies on this blog to perpetrate the hatred……………Walk in the shoes of the African American experience in THIS Country, and then talk to me about “experience”………..

      • libertytrain

        timr – been there, done that – experienced it all.. And understand it.

      • Claire

        timr—I have read most of these posts this evening, including yours. Don’t you realize the more you harp about racism, the worse it gets? You are beating the drum louder than anyone. You sound very angry. Simmer down. Frustration is not good for you. Take a deep breath and post in a logical rational manner. If people disagree with you, so what? They have a right to their opinion just the same as you do. You believe what you believe and they believe what they believe.
        You yourself have said you didn’t agree with all of Obama’s agendas. So how can you rail against anyone else on this site when they disagree with Obama?
        I don’t agree with Obama and his administration either. There were more important things to take care of first, why health care? A whole year was dedicated to health care and what we are getting is not good. Jobs and the economy should have been first and foremost.
        There is no need to call people white trash. And people do live in trailer parks, so what? Does that make them less of a human being? And what is wrong with Wyoming? Why are you bashing this state?
        You have to admit that the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson haven’t helped much either. Martin Luther King, Jr. was the best. He actually accomplished a lot. There is no comparison between MLK and these guys.
        Things have come a long way since the 60s. The past is over and done with. We cannot look back, only for historical thoughts, and now we have to look towards the future. With the world the way it is today, we are all concerned. Regardless of party affiliations, we all have the same basic concern about our country.

      • timr

        Thank you, claire………..I sincerely appreciate your words………and YES, I have seen first hand, racism, and it STILL does exist………Youre; right, that Jesse Jackson and Sharpton, perhaps aren’t MLK, but you don’t know how MLK would have been, if he had lived……..People seem to marginalize, Black Leaders more often……..At least, you can agree, that Obama’s election, has, to a large extent, brought out the bigots again???………Just tell me, that you don’t condome Obama being called an animal, or a terrorist, because there HAVE been viceral comments about him, right on this Blog………..Race has always concerned me, but you’ll be glad to know, that I volunteer alot of time in Pooer neighborhoods, and like YOU, I don’t want to see Obama being marginalized because he’s Black, anfd that his Father was born in Kenya instead of Weschester County, or Billings Montana…………Thank, you Claire………

      • libertytrain

        I think the very fine Martin Luther King would have been pleased to see all that he and so many worked for back in the 60′s has gotten so far that the current president is being treated exactly as all the presidents before have been treated. No special handling cause he has a darker skin than some, just being treated as the guy he is, liked by some, not liked by others – just like the presidents before him.

      • libertytrain

        - And I further believe, Rev. King would be disappointed in the way some of his associates (not all) have handled themselves over the last 25-35 years or so – some that continue to perpetuate keeping their people under their control rather than helping them to continue to advance as Rev. King had started to accomplish. Look back at the old coverage of those days and you will see a much different and strong-willed people under his leadership and guidance than one does under the current leadership. Yes, I do believe the Rev. King would be disappointed with some of his old friends strangling what he set about to do. It wasn’t only about equal rights on the bus or at the diner.

      • Jana

        timr,
        I have a friend that is a police lady. Her husband is also a policeman.

        Her husband worked in the field of abuse, especially husbands abusing their wives. She asked him how many men beat their wives. He told her at least 95% of the men beat their wives. I looked at her and said that can’t be possible. She told me no, that it was not so, but since that is all he worked with, that is all he saw, and therefore thought most of the men beat their wives. They actually had to transfer him out of that unit into another field, as he couldn’t seperate his percepted ideas from reality.

        I can certainly see where you are coming from, since you work so closely with people that are treated badly because of their race. Good for you for working to make a difference.

        I am not naive enough to think their is no racism in this world. I have actually been the brunt of racism in one instance from a black family, and just that one incident bothered me a lot, so to live with it daily is something I can’t possibly fathom enduring.

        I would ask you to be a little more discerning though, as not everyone is a racist, and not everyone means racial slurs by stating certain things. You can’t be on a witch hunt in every single statement that is made. It is not productive and after a few times people turn you off and think you are just a trouble maker when that isn’t what you are trying to do. You are desperately trying to make people aware of how they are coming across.

        We do have some legitimate concerns over Obama’s dual citizenship probability, and how he was raised. Not that he was raised black or white or purple, but that he was raised with Socialistic and Marxist views. Also, in his own book he has stated that he always loved the philosophies of Communism, Marxism, and Socialism and surrounded himself with like minded people on purpose even as a teen ager. He still surrounds himself with these same types of people.

        This is what bothers us. It would bother us even if he were white, or hispanic, or any other race. It is the character of man that we go by. Not his personality nor his color, but his character.

        Actually, at first I honestly thought that if I met you in person I probably wouldn’t like you, but I do see some really nice things about you in some of your posts. I see you have some good ideas and good thoughts, and are really a compassionate individual. All very good characteristics. It is just a shame that you turn people off by allowing your anger to control you. You can do a lot of good, but you can do a lot more good by coming across as a reasonable person, not a person with rage and hatred, but engaging in common sense and pointing out the problems you see as well as the solutions and letting the real you come out.

      • Jana

        timr,
        One more thing. Most of us don’t like or respect Pelosi or Reid either. We don’t like their agenda, we don’t like what they stand for, and we don’t trust them. I think that they are Socialists leaning towards Communism and they need to be outed. And,— they are white.
        This thing with Obama is not personal.

        You think we are calling names when we say Socialist or Marxist, but these are not name calling, these are dangerous philosophies that these people stand for and Pres. Obama surrounds himself with.
        Communism makes everyone poor, with no hope. These other ideologies cause massive deaths to the poor. They are not a good thing.
        Thanks for listening.

      • libertytrain

        Claire – you made excellent points, so well-written. It seems though that timr try that he/she may, still doesn’t get it and still has to use the racist fallback line.

      • tim

        Jana,

        I truly appreciate your kind words, and I too, believe that, if we met in person, we would get along, even as we disagree on some issues…….It might sound strange, but I’m very new on these blog-things, as I prefer face to face communication………..

        Of course not ALL people are racist, but you have to realize, that I should probably give these people the benefit-of-the-doubt, because I don’t think that many of them, don’t realize, when they come across as racist………..

        YES, I react sometimes because what I’ve seen and even read about………….and trust me, when physically confronted with racism sometimes anger and frustration are the only remedies…………

        I understand that those remedies don’t serve well on a Blog like this……..but, I’m convinced, that many of these ethnic rants about Obama, ARE racially motivated…….perhaps not racist, but, racially motivated, and there is a difference at times……………

        Constantly pointing out his Heritage, Jana, is deliberate……….by some of these people, and you might not call it racist……..you can certainly call it ignorant…………..

        As far as your belief that Obama wants to turn this Country in Socialist or Communist……..
        I can’t change your perception or belief on that, but my God, do you actually think that he;s going to bring back the legacies of Chairman Mao……or Fidel Castro??……….THAT is absurd…………

        And you have to be careful in throwing out those terms, and I’ll tell you why……..

        If you think helping to provide Health Insurance to uninsured children, is Socialism, then go ahead and do so, because I will feel better about myself, if those uninsured kids can go to the Doctor, without their Parents filing bankrupcy…………There are too many people getin Rich off of sick people, and to me, THAt is not Christian or Moral AT ALL……………..i that is called socialism then so be it…………

        Why don’t you look at the compassion and intent of Obama, instead of labeling him a Socialist, because he wants to help these people………….In this case, healthcare, Jana…….the Free Market has bankrupted Americans and doesn’t have the capacity, currently or ever, to solve this moral problem…………….

        I have been in that position of almost filing bankrupcy, because I had to fight tooth-and-nail with the Insurance company in my employer sponsored plan……………….

        Keeping people healthy and giving all access to quality healthcare, is fiscally sound as well……….

        Americans are living in a MTV world, because we have short memory spans, and we don’t want to look at the Big picture and solve problems for the Long term………..

        Disagree with the method of Obama’s policies, but don’t use paranoid , ideological terms to define Obama’s or anyone’s intent………….These terms, Jana, have become Buzz words………..an they serve NO purpose at all…………..

        And if you find a way, to provide people healthcare insurance, other than Government intervention, to some degree……I’m all ears……..and PLEASE, PLEASE don’t say Health savings accounts, because , speaking personally………..in 2007, I paid $750.00 a month in my employer premiums…….in addition to…….$10,000.00 more in out-of-pocket bills……….because my son was diagnosed with Chron’s Disease………and I HAD…….Insurance, Jana……..and my son didn’t contract this disease, by eatin double chesburgers or drinking alcohol, or smoking cigarettes………..he was 11, when he was diagnosed………….

        You can probably tell, that Healthcare is even bigger for me, that Race…………..

        I very much respect our dialogue, Jana……….

        Talk to you soon………..

        p.s. Hey Bob Livingston…….was that cordial and succinct enough???????

  • http://outlookexpress frank

    why would bo-bo support arizona? hes as illegal as the wet backs!

    • Mick for thought

      again where is the proof?

      • angel-wanna-be

        MIck for thought____1.8 mills to secure Obama’s info?

      • Mick for thought

        So you believe that none of the security services of America the powerful Bush and Cheney influence, the politically powerful Clintons and the powerful friends of McCain did not try to prove President Obama was ineligible to be president. Please dear Lord place this birther movement to rest.

      • Gail

        Mick for thought— only Obama himself can put this to rest by proving he is qualified to the American people

      • Mike

        Why would congress have hearings for proof of McCain legal citizenship but not for Obama? It is a big coverup paid for by our tax dollars. That is why Obama has spent approx. $2M to his lawyers to coverup his REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE and all other info that has always been released by LEGITIMATE PRESIDENTS.

      • Rob Alexander

        You don’t seriously think Bush, Cheney and McCain actually OPPOSE Obama, do you?

        People think Republican Vs. Democrat is like a football game, but it’s really more like a pro wrestling match. This supposed opposition to each other is nothing more than a play they put on to keep the sheep from paying attention to what they’re really up to.

        Cheney, Bush and McCain are on the same team as Obama. The game is the privileged, politically connected class against everyone else, not R vs. D.

      • Cathy

        Check this out: http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

        He is a mystery and very dangerous. Too many questions, not enough answers.

      • gregory

        hey mick, a verry simple soulution would be for commie obamie to release the seal’d doc’s to a qualified vtr to be verrified, a verry simple thing to do. the question is why does he not do that? is he hiding somthing that may be damming?

      • Jana

        Mick for thought,
        Obama more than likely has dual citizenship, but that is beside the point. The point for me is that he has not been raised all of his life here in the United States. He has been raised in countries that for the most part ‘hate America’, and he has followed that ideology. He is trying to turn our country into a third world country.
        In fact, now Congress is voting on whether to have Puerto Rico become a state, and for the topper of all toppers, we are borrowing money to bail out Greece.
        When does it stop???

      • Save America Susie

        You know, BO “MAY” very well be born here….But the American People have the RIGHT TO KNOW. Pres. Jefferson said the American people own the President when he is in office. He should be public. Which BO is anything but. If he were truly “transparent” as he claimed he would be, that “long form BC” would be nailed-up on every street corner. In other words PUBLIC. After All, we have McCAIN’s long form! It wasn’t a problem for him.

        P.S. Right on Jana!!

      • kate8

        Not a chance.

      • timr

        Jana, stop and think, don’t you think Obama living abroad, has given him some insight into the World around us??……….Turning us into a 3rd world Country……….???….come on, are you serious…………??……..Trade deals like NAFTA, and Corporate sellouts to Foreign Business, will turn us into a 3rd world Country………..Obama is the 1st President, to tell Corporation, that they will get NO…tax breaks for picking up their plants and moving them overseas……………..

      • Jana

        timr,
        No, I don’t think living abroad has given him insight into the world around us. He needs insight in how the United States is to be run, we aren’t like other countries, and we have been the World leaders here. We don’t want to be run by the UN, we don’t want to be run like Kenya, we want our Constitution followed, and our laws followed. In these other countries he has heard nothing but bad about our country and seems to still believe it or he would not have gone all over the world to appologize to these foreign leaders for the U.S.

        Yes, I am serious about the fact that it seems he does want us to turn into a third world country because he refuses to even consider controlling our borders. He had a visit with Mexico’s El Presidente, and he was mad about our trying to control our own borders. Our President agrees with him. Our President even came out and condemned Arizona’s bill WITHOUT even reading it first.
        And, I would be saying this about Bush, or Hillary, or even McCain if they were doing these things. It just so happens, I believe they probably would be doing these same things and I would be complaining just as loudly.

      • Norm Seymour

        Where is the proof he is legal? All oduma has to do to put this question to rest is show a REAL birth certificate, but he refuses, why?Is it not available? Iam not saying he doesn’t have it,I just wonder why, he will not show it.Is he ashamed of it? And if so why? Would also like some answers,how could he travel to a nation,that was not legal to travel to with a US passport,was he an illegal alien at that time? By his own story,he was so broke he couldn’t afford a place to live, yet in a few months he could fly around the world like a celebrity,pretty good I’d say,and then come back and go to an expensive college, nice huh?

      • jcarrollbarnhill

        I believe the real answer to the mystery of who and what Obadma is his biggest LIE of all. He is an IMPOSTER for the real B H Obama. Some where along the time this guy has slide into his identity. A total fraud. The black part is NOT the problem. The Muslim is the problem. He looks to be all black- no characteristics 0f any white blood. How could so many people still be so stupid as to go along with him??? And the American people better wake up and get busy FAST. Let’s all pray to the REAL GOD.

      • http://facebook Leslie Moore

        I have read your comments about Obama and I think you are getting all caught up in the right wing propaganda out there. His birth certificate as posted is real they even have the announcement of his birth that day in the paper that has been posted. I don’t believe it is a conspiracy cover up by Obama. BTW he has announced publicly his Faith! He has stated he is a Christian and follows Christian beliefs. That is enough for me for I know that in the end there is only one God to answer to and He has indicated through Jesus Christ that we are not to Judge. “Judge not lest you be Judged” Obama has moved this Country in some unconventional directions. Good for him the old ways weren’t working? Get up off the internet and go to work in your Communities people, there is much work to be done, things do not fix themselves. Hurray for Arizona!!!!

      • Jana

        Leslie M,

        I think you are right in that he does have a legitimate birth certificate, but I still think he has dual citizenship.

        You also stated acurately that we are not to judge, lest we be judged, but God did give us something called wisdom and discernment.
        This poor man named Obama has been in what kind of churces all of his life? When he was a teenager, he went to ‘church’ with his grandparents who went to the same type of church with the same type of rhetoric that the great Rev. Wright taught, that Obama went to for 22 years. He never had a chance to hear the gospel of Christ.

        By Obama’s own words, he has praised the Islamic call to prayer as the most beautiful sound he has ever heard. He has quoted the Qu’ran many many times. He is telling us very loudly what he believes, all we need to do is put on our listening ears.

        The Bible also tells us that we know them by their fruits. hmmm, you said Obama has moved us in some “unconventional directions” and you think this is good? He is taking us away from the Constitution and you approve? This doesn’t speak well of you, or your credibility.

      • timr

        jccarrolbarnhill…………YOU are part of the racism that is bubbling to the surface now, since the election of Obama………..Not EVERY American President should be Anglo-Saxon, Catholics………..Your’e an imposter…………..

      • timr

        Jana, you are proving your ignorance………You are going after Obama, and claiming he is an avoud Muslim, when he has done nothing but show his religious tolernace to ALL Religions……..So stop trying to define him just because every other President before him were carbon copies……….of each other………”W” was a born-again christian………Did you REALLY know his beliefs………..of course you did, because he was the SAME religion as YOU…………Now, haven’t you EVER wondered why SO many Wars and Conflicts went on, BECAUSE of Religious separatism……..an lack of tolerence and hatred????

      • timr

        And Jana……..How would YOU know wHAT Gospe; Obama has read??……Where do you get off, claiming to know what’s in his heart and mind……????…………Jerry Falwell is DEAD……….can’t we get passed this Religion thing?……Religion is personal between yourself and your creator, and America has gotten so Damn arrogant about it’s Religious History……….it doesn’t suit us, and it never will………..Didn’t you learn ANYTHING from the Crusades……..???, or did you miss that day in class………….??????///

      • Jana

        timr,

        So much for your post from before. Name calling is just something you do so well. I should have realized that someone that is so mean, and is filled with so much anger and rage, as well as racism, and has a garbage mouth could not change his bad habits. Too bad, your own ignorance is showing!

        I do something that you don’t know how to do obviously, I pay attention to what Obama says. I have also bothered to find out about him. Yes, he shows so much tolerance of so many things, including such as having the picture of Jesus covered during one of his speeches, sure, that is religious tolerance. What about his quick judgments BEFORE he even knows all of the facts? Oh yes, you would think that is all right because that is what you do.

        As for the rest, you wouldn’t understand because you are blind to certain truths. If you weren’t you wouldn’t have voted for him in the first place.

        You just lost all of your credibility toward your first post. Because you were nice for a change I was willing to believe you for a minute there, but you couldn’t possibly have any solutions to anything, because you are one of the problems.

        Maybe if this Religion thing bothers you so much it’s because The Lord is trying to reach out to you and you aren’t paying attention to Him.

      • timr

        You know, Jana…you are right………I shouldn’t get so angry in my posts, but I just think that going after what you think, are Obama’s beliefs, are something that the Obama haters are going overboard with…….I will grant you this……you seem like more of a Religious person than I am……..I consider myself a Christian, but I don’t believe in forcing others to believe what we believe………and ALL religions are varying interpretations of the Bible……..WHY all of this hatred towards certain religions……..that is exactly what these Muslim extremists do……….I don’t believe in carrying on Religious Wars………Enough people have died over History, because of arrogance in their Faith……….

        Again, Jana, I apologize…….

      • timr

        Jana, I will not attack you personally…….I just see such viceral hatred towards Obama…….and I have NO problem……NO problem at all, for disagreeing with his policies…….but all this talk about whether he’s a citizen or not, and how he isn’t one-of-us………has everything to do with the fact, that racially, he is so unlike the purely, white, anglo-saxon Presidents…..WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD……..and I’m going to call it out…………..This Country has come too far, to allow this racial B.S. to happen………….Did you ever watch Obama’s speech on Race??……..he was totally honest, and it was the most honest speech on Race in America, I have EVER seen………but that doesn’t stop the “birthers” from spewing CRAP all over the place…………We disagree, Jana, but I respect, and always, will respect your right to express your beliefs…………

      • Jana

        timr,
        I have never hated the man Obama. He obviously has a good personality, and gets along well with people. Barak, Michelle and the children seem like a delightful family in fact.
        I have met a lot of people in my work and in my life that I thought were really nice people, but I did not agree with them politically. Most of the time these people and I don’t discuss politics because we will argue and we don’t want to argue. But, at the same time these people don’t have any major influence over my life.
        Mr. Obama does. I don’t agree with him politically and since he does have a major influence over my life, because he is a PUBLIC official, I have a duty and a right to voice my concerns.
        On the same vein, I voiced my concerns with Pres. Bush too. I did not agree with him most of the time either.

      • timr

        Jana, we can agree, that we differences………..I respect your opinions, whether I agree with them or not………..

      • tim

        JCCARROL…….do you want to run a dna test on him, to make sure he has some “caucasion’ in him…..???

        Obama has expressed his Christian beliefs……and because he was exposed to other Countries, who didn’t happen to be Irish-catholic, where is the proof, that he is some avowed Muslim……???

        As I’ve said, this is nothing but an attempt, NOT to disagree with policy, but an attempt to distancing him, as some Un-American figure, or someone who is “different” than us REAL Americans………

        Does every President HAVE to be a white Anglo-saxon, christian, to truly love, and lead our Country…….???

        i jsut don’t understand the paranoia with him………..I really don’t………

        If you don’t like his policies, then vote him out of office in 2012………but ENOUGH of this paranoid rhetoric, that does nothing but wrile up your fellow citizens, who ahve an ignorance towards people who don’t look like their Neighbors……..(I say ignorance, as a term of just NOT being exposed to any culture other than their own)………..

        Thanks to Kate8, I’m leaving the Anger out of my posts…….but I would really like to find some answers as to this hatred of this Man………..

        respectfully
        tim

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear timr,
        It would be nice if he would prove his citizenship rather than spend millions fighting it. Many would be more receptive to a President Obama if they knew he was constitutionally eligible to serve. Kids have to show their birth certificate to play sports, yet he still hasn’t let his be seen. And don’t try to use that Certificate of Live Birth posted on the internet. It is not a legal birth certificate to receive state services in Hawaii, which requires a long form birth certificate. Admit there are questions: Why no doctor or nurse say they were present? Why did his parents not live at address listed in birth announcements? Why has Michelle and a Kenyan official said he was born in Kenya. Why is he using a Social Security number issued in Connecticut after he reportedly held his first job in Hawaii. How did he travel to restricted countries if he only had a U.S. passport. Why no access to his college records? So many questions (and there are more) and no answers.
        Best wishes,
        Bob
        P.S. timr, rein in the name-calling.

      • Derrick

        Obama’S REAL birth certificate is posted online, google it!

      • gregory

        hey derrick, wich copy are you talking about? ive seen about a thousnd of the so call’d photoshop’d copys and they all have many flaws to the keen eye, the real question is why doesn’t he release the true one that is lock’d away in hawaii?? seems to me that he went to great lenghts to cover this up—WHY? criminals will go to great extreems to hide the truth as to not get caught, why doesnt he stop the madness and just release the origional docs to a qualified vettr, i think you know as well as everybody else!

      • concerned citizen

        how are you so sure that it is not a forged document?

      • Rick C

        There has never been a copy of Obama’s birth certificate posted on the Internet. The document you are referring to is a certification of live birth. It is an abstract of information they have on file in Hawaii. What the information source is, is not disclosed. It is not sufficient to obtain a passport, or even a drivers license in some states.

      • Save America Susie

        It’s only the “short form”….That is the problem. It does not contain the information America NEEDS to know to protect America from impostors. Only the “long form” does. And as I said McCain delivered his for all of us to see. The short form is very skeletal. A CEO of a major corporation has to provide more info than that. The President, more than anyone, should give us the MOST proof, not the least, since it is the highest office in the land. You should have to PROVE it to everyone, since he is applying to be everyone’s President. That’s why it effects ALL OF US.

      • tim

        Bob, I’ve toned down my anger, and name calling, but some of these people on your blog are unreal………

        And with all due respect, you are just another “birther”………No proof of his birth will EVER satisfy you………and do you want him to NOT defend himself against these claims??????

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear tim (timr),
        Sorry, wrong again. PROOF of his birth as an American citizen is just what I’m asking for. He has not yet provided it. Yes, I’m a “birther” if that means that I’d like PROOF that the man occupying the White House is a natural-born American citizen as required by the Constitution. Release of his long form birth certificate (not a certificate of live birth), his college records (which would indicate whether he received special dispensation as a foreign national), an explanation of how he traveled to Pakistan at a time when it was illegal to travel there on an American passport and why his social security number begins with a prefix that was issued only to people living in Connecticut (a state in which he never claimed to live) after he held his first job in Hawaii would go a long way toward satisfying my “birther” tendencies. There are other questions, but these are key. I’m sure my explanation won’t satisfy you. Until you stop viewing things in a simple left vs. right paradigm you will never understand the philosophy espoused on this site.
        All the best,
        Bob
        PS: Thanks for toning down the anger and name calling. Isn’t it refreshing to debate on an adult level?
        PPS: You say, “some of these people are unreal.” There are many who believe that about you.

      • Donna M.

        Norm, You are on the right track. Take a look at what has been turned up concerning his SSN. It comes from Connecticut during a period after he supposedly worked at a Bask & Robbins in Hawaii. There is no evidence that he ever resided in Connecticut and since it is illegal to have more than one SSN how was he able to work as a teen in Hawaii? There is more than one question concerning his SSN. I would start with how was it issued to him? There is, for those who acknowledge that all documents can be forged, also the taped evidence of his Kenyan grandmother who says she was present during the birth of her grandson in Kenya. Too many loopholes to simply ignore.

      • Susy

        I agree Donna, too many loops, not enough clear answers. As far as I am concerned Barack Hussein Obama is an African until he can clearly demonstrate otherwise. Why would his grandmother lie about being present at his birth? Beyond that he is a Chicago politician with clear socialist inclinations whose real design for the US is to destroy it as fast as he can.
        As to the Arizona law, I fully support it and wish all the states would follow with similar laws. In Mexico illegal aliens are treated with severity and street demonstrations by them is met with jail terms.

      • timr

        Jana, take a look at susie’s rant about Obama being African………TELL me……..please…TELL me, that this isn’t about Race………………

      • libertytrain

        Timr – what’s racist about saying he’s an African? Africa is still a continent? Not a bad word?

      • timr

        Heu Libertarian, it’s the “context” in how it’s used, that is racist………Keep turning a blind-eye………..

      • libertytrain

        timr – I’m afraid, I understand context probably better than you do. And the context she used was fine, you continuously misconstrue and use racist terms yourself. Or is it ok when you do it – because it’s you.

      • Jana

        timr,
        I do agree with Libertrain.
        She meant African as in Kenyan. Kenya is in Africa I do believe. Please do not look so hard for racism, because truly that is not how most of us feel. I have a lot of friends that are of differing nationalities. Great and wonderful people. I have also met some people of differing nationalities including whites, and I don’t like them and they don’t like me, but that doesn’t make me a racist and it doesn’t make them a racist either.
        In heaven there will be no blacks, no whites, no hispanics, no Methodists, no Babtists, just Christians. As Martin Luther King said, we need to judge a person by his character, not his color.
        You have a lot of good character, but you seem to be stuck on racism. Please reconsider this point.
        Thanks.

      • timr

        Jana, there ARE racist remarks about Obama on this Blog………Are you telling me, that when someone blurts out Barrack Hussain Obama, that they don’t have an ulterior motive??……….Perhaps,just saying that Obama’s Dad was born in Kenya, which makes him Kenyan, isn’t harmful or racist, on it’s face………but did people say during the campaign, that John McCain was “”christian”, or John McCain is “Irish”…………Do you see my point here………..There ARE racial references, ans they are for for a reason………..Is race EVERYTHING, NO………but it does matter, and I’ve witnessed friends of mine, African American friends of mine, being treated AS LESS THAN HUMAN…….so maybe the subjest is more touchy with me, when I hear these Ethnic references………and /they ARE here, make no mistake about it…………Jana, I don’t lump you in this group, as you seem like an intelligent, smart person………but I’m NOT going excuse some of the race-bating that still goes on in this Country……….

      • Gary

        Because Obama is patriotically obliged and because it is Obama’s patriotic duty and patriotic obligation as an elected representative “Of The People”, “By The People” and “For The People” to PUBLICLY show us his entire Life inside and outside, leaving and ommitting absolutely nothing and including absolutely everything, beginning from the moment that Obama was born, the solid proof is in Obama’s own moral behavior and in Obama’s own immoral behavior. Obama’s actions and Obama’s inactions and Obama’s personal behavior speaks volumes louder than any words can speak or could ever speak. We do know that Obama is half Black and half White, but that in itself is meaningless, irrelevant and not really important, however, Obama is capable of the human behavior of dishonesty and deceit and lying to anyone exactly the same as every human being who has ever existed on Earth.

      • Barb

        Mick, Why don’t you show us one place where there is legitimate background
        information on Obama! There isn’t any! Begs the question-WHY? The only so called Birth Certificate he produced was a copy of a Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii That is not an official Birth Certificate it just proves that he was born live and not hatched that’s all. You show us some proof!

      • Mick for thought

        That is all some states provide. However the governor of HI has made a written statement that he has seen the hospital copy of the birth and it states he was born in HI. Lastly Obama has produced more verifying information than any president in the past of his birth. Why is that? personally I spent about 60 hour searching this subject and found no credible evidence against his natural born American citizenship.

      • Barb

        How hard would it be to pay that politician off? NOT HARD! Plus as you have pointed out they lie all the time. There is no credible proof and he HAS not produced any period! If you say he has then you are also a liar! Plus I thought you said you had to go to work…. Must be an awful cushy job and nice boss you have to be able to do this on the job!!! Gottcha in another lie didn’t I?

      • Barb

        Mick for Thought: 7:03 AM This Blog: AND I Quote last paragraph:
        I have to go to work & make some more comments late tonight when I get home. By the way, by the looks of some of these frequent posts from a almost dozen individuals I wonder where they get the time to make all these posts. Must have great bosses to let them take so many breaks in their work day to type a thousand words on this blog. Unquote. And Mick you keep insisting that you are not a lib??? Sure sound like one, hypocritical as one. Like my Daddy used to say, “If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it sure as hell ain’t a Gorilla! I don’t believe a word you say, I don’t believe you are a decorated Vet either and I do believe that you are a lying liberal lefty period!

      • Rick C

        That is not all some states provide. Every state will provide a copy of your original birth certificate, a facsimile with all the details, if they have one on file. They sometimes offer a cheaper abstract document.
        I heard the governor of Hawaii say he saw the original documentation on file, but he never said it was an original hospital birth certificate.

      • Pat R

        Mick:

        The Gov. of Hawaii is a WOMAN!!

        Believe it or not—–Money Talks. The amount of $$$$$$$$$$$ that is being to hide obama,s past is totally insane. But, Maurice Strong and George Soros have billions to blow. What really gets me is:__ Why are they constantly doling out mega bucks to cover obama’s arse???

      • JeffH

        …the only evidence available is the Hawaiian certificate of birth (considered valid) that was posted by someone other than the government.

        If Obama has nothing to hide, why is their so much secrecy and so much money spent ($1.4Mil) to protect the “truths”.
        Probably knows it is a better diversion to keep some minds on other things going on.

        Obama’s birth certificate sealed by Hawaii governor
        Says Democratic senator must make request to obtain original document
        Posted: October 26, 2008
        9:54 pm Eastern
        By Jerome R. Corsi
        © 2010 WorldNetDaily

        Gov. Linda Lingle, R-Hawaii

        HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama’s birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii’s Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate’s birth certificate under seal and instructed the state’s Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.

        In Kenya, WND was told by government authorities that all documents concerning Obama were under seal until after the U.S. presidential election on November 4.

        The Obama campaign website entitled “Fight the Smears” posts a state of Hawaii “Certificate of Live Birth” which is obviously not the original birth certificate generated by the hospital where Obama reportedly was born.

        “Fight the Smears” declares, “The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a native citizen of the United States of America.”

        Although the Obama campaign could immediately put an end to all the challenges by simply producing the candidate’s original birth certificate, it has not done so. And the “Fight the Smears” website offers no explanation as to why Obama has refused to request, and make public, an original hospital-generated birth certificate which the Hawaii Department of Health may possess.

      • Mick for thought

        Well barb is calling people liars again. Not a liar barb and would appreciate you not calling me names anymore. Yep this morning I checked in while waiting for things to get going here at work. Now nearly 12 hours later things have wound down a bit. 12 hour days, not bad for a disabled vet. guess the birther thing will never get a rest because even if he provided everything asked for then the birthers would just claim it is all a forgery.
        Speaking of cushy jobs. I see some incredibly long posts from the same people all day long. Where do these guys work?

      • Hugh Jordin

        The only forged Obama birth certificates I have seen are the inept ones using forms from the wrong period in Kenya dome by right-wing extremists (the American equivalent of the Taliban) who refuse to accept the outcome of the election and are desperately looking for any bogus excuse. Like him or not, Obama is the President and a natural born citizen. Get over it and move on to the real problems.

        Conservatives need to focus on serious issues, stop letting themselves be led by lunatics like Bachman, Palin, Beck, and Limbaugh. Find brilliant conservative leadership that will attract rather than repulse independents. Clowns like these diminish the conservative message and make all of us look like nut jobs.

      • Jana

        I am just throwing this out, but what about the statement his own Grandmother said, that he was born in Kenya?

      • Save America Susie

        The reason it is NOT OVER is because it has NOT BEEN PROVEN SUFFICIENTLY. Only 2 people in Hawaii stand in the way of viewing it. They could be easily paid off. Or they could be on his politic side. It’s called “corruption”. Again he “MAY” very well be born here. But we don’t know, because he won’t show. The “crime” is refusing to comply with the American people. (Which he promised.) He may have proved it to the Governor and those two people, but not to the Citizens. Why should he be any different than McCain or Hillary in his compliance? He should not be handled with special “kid gloves”.

      • tim

        Mickforthought…..they don’t want the truth……because instead of discreditng Obama for his Policies, they want to somehow believe, that he never should have been elected legally in the first place…….

        Over 2000 citizens were polled, as to what they know about Hawaii, and almost 50 % of then said, they didn’t think Obama is an American Citizen, because Hawaii is NOT a State…………

        How can one respond to that ignorance???

      • rjg

        factcheck.org verified his birth certificate.

        Isn’t his mother a US citizen? Doesn’t that make him automatically a U.S. citizen? John Macain was born in the Panama Canal Zone to US parents and they decided it was OK for him to run.

        What is so different about Obama that gets under everyone’s skin?

      • Jana

        rjg,
        The magic word here is HIS PARENTS. One was an American Citizen, the other was not. He has in times past boasted he was a Kenyan. He most likely has DUAL citizenship. Unless he renounced it, which was never made public or explained to the American people. At the very least it would just be plain decent of Obama to explain all of this and put this to rest.
        McCain’s paretns were both citizens of the United States.

        the problem is no one knows for certain and since what he does and who he is you know, the PRESIDENT, it would be right if he told us, the ones he is supposed to be working for, all of the facts.
        My main problem with him is, he thinks we are working for him.

      • rjg

        Jana

        Do you have any evidence that he is a dual citizen? It has been verified that he was born in Hawaii by the hawii health director and factcheck.org.

        I’m no expert and you are free to prove me wrong but I believe there are rules that define citizenship requirement for people born outside of the US and with one parent who is a US citizen. And I believe that Barack Obama would qualify even if he had been born outside of the US which i don’t believe he was.

      • Jana

        rjg,
        The only thing I can say is, his own grandmother said he was born in Kenya and again I will say the problem is no one knows for certain.

        I do know he went to Hawaii and spent a lot of money there to do something concerning his birth. What was it he did? For someone having an “open” administration, he sure seems very secretive, and have you ever heard him address this situation? I haven’t. Evidently, we aren’t allowed to ask questions, and he certainly is not forthcoming on any answers.

        Personally, I am sure he does have a statement of birth in Hawaii as his mother was an American citizen (even if in her heart she wasn’t).
        She left her child and went to foreign countries to do her socialistic works.

        My question is does he hold dual citizenships? If he does, then he does not hold total allegience to this country. In my opinion, he acts like he doesn’t hold hardly any allegience to this country.

      • rjg

        Jana

        Ok then

      • http://?? Joe H.

        rjg,
        yeah fact check.org, wow they couldn’t possibly be wrong or duped or even lying!!!! The fact is he could put this to rest himself and doesn’t! he wants us distracted by this so we lose sight of what else he is pulling! As I have said before he is like a magician in that he waves his left hand so you won’t notice what his right is doing! My opine is that he got a foreign student federal grant for school and is trying to hide THAT from us. If he did and he is an American citizen, he is guilty of a federal crime and if convicted of such is not elegible to be president!!

      • timr

        Jana, your’e getting sucked into this Ethnic conversation……….though your words aren’t harmful, but like alot of people on this blog, ethnicity apparently DOES matter, and it’s a way to show that Obama is “different” than …….US…………

      • tim

        RIG, I don’t know what the problem is…..

        Jana…..my Great Grandfather was born in Germany……my other Great Grandfather worked for the King of Denmark, and was born there……….My cousin, researched a Family Tree, and actually found a “Family Crest” of our last name on a House in Germany…….

        Does that make me a Nazi, or is it bad for me to be proud of WHERE my ancestors came from………and ALSO be proud to be an American????????

        My wife is from Puerto Rico, and her Family is VERY proud of their Island roots……..and her Uncles have served in World Wat II, in Korea and in Vietnam………….They have fully assimilated themselves in the U.S………..Should they simply FORGET…….where they came from, and stop making rice & Beans, and jsut eat Hamburgers????????

      • tim

        I think we sould shut down ALL Irish Pubs……….and ALL German restaurants………..and ALL French restaurants……….and STOP drinking Corona, or Heineken, or St Pauli girl……..becuae until we do, we cannot FULLY assimilate into american Culture…….

        Thank God i live in Milwaukee, and we have PLENTY of our own Beer, as LibertyTrain can attest to………….

      • libertytrain

        Timr – remember just the other day you said you lived in an incredibly bigoted place – I guessed Boston. Now do you like it or not – I’m confused — good beer, good custard and all.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear rjg,
        The Certificate of Live Birth–which is what factcheck.org viewed–is not an official birth certificate in Hawaii and can’t be used to prove eligibility to receive state services. A long form birth certificate must be used. COLBs were available to people not born in Hawaii just for the asking. He has not released his long form birth certificate and therefore has not proved his eligibility. His mother, as a minor, could not convey citizenship on him and his father was a foreign national.
        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • gregory

        THE PROFF IS IN THE NEWS PAPER ARCHIVES IN DARISLAM TANZANIA AFRICA, IT SHOWS COMMIE OBAMIES PHOTO WITH HIS MOTHER AND FATHER AND THE DOCTOR WHO DELIVER’D THE LITTLE DEVIL, HIS FATHER WAS A VERRY POPULAR COMMUNIST ACTIVEST IN THE TRIBAL REAGION OF KENYA AND THE NEWS PAPER FELT IT WAS WORTHY TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OF THE BIRTH OF A CHILD FROM SUCH A POPULAR ACTIVEST, THE IMFORMATION CAN BE SEEN BY GOING TO DARISLAM AND PAYING A FEE TO THE GOV THUGS, ALTHOUGH YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO MAKE COPYS OF THAT IMFORMATION AS THE THUGS WANT TO HANG ON TO IT UNTILL THEY GET PAY’D BY THE HIGHEST BIDDER, BE VERRY CAUTIOUS WHEN YOU GO THERE TO LOOK AT THAT IMFORMATION AS THE FOLKS THERE WANT YOUR MONEY AND WILL TRY TO EXTORT YOU BY TELLING YOU THEY WILL REPORT YOU TO THE U.S FOR SEEKING THIS IMFO.. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY PEOPLE FROM THE EURO TRASH REAGIONS AND OTHER COUNTRYS THAT HAVE SEEN THOSE NEWS PAPER ARTICLES AND PHOTOS AND HAVE BEEN HAUNTED BY THERE OWN EUROTRASH GOVERNMENTS FOR DOING SO, DO TO THE FACT THAT THIS YOUNG NEW COMMIE DICTATOR IS IN LINE WITH THERE WAY OF THINKING TOWARDS A NEW WORLD ORDER,ONE WORLD BANKING SYSTEM, AND A ONE WORLD RELIGION, THATS THE REASON WHY THIS THUG HAS BEEN TRYING TO TAKE THIS COUNTRY DOWN TO A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AS TO MAKE ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE FAIR AND LEVEL WITH THE EUROTRASH COUNTRYS. ASK ANY EUROPEAN LEAGLE IMMIGRANT NEW TO THE U.S AND THEY WILL GIVE YOU ALL THE IMFO YOU SEEK ABOUT THIS NEW WORLD ORDER PLAN–BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN FORCED TO LIVE THIS WAY BY THERE OWN GOVERNMENTS TO COMPLY–THATS THE REASON THEY MOVED TO THIS COUNTRY–WE ARE THE LAST FREE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD AND WHEN WERE GONE THERE WONT BE ANY MORE FREE COUNTRYS LEFT AND WE ALL WILL BE THE ONE WORLD SYSTEM THAT F.D.R, CARTER, CLINTON, BUSH,OBAMA,THE FREAK DICTATOR IN SOUTH AMERICA AND OTHER DICTATORS AROUND THE WORLD HAVE BEEN WORKING TWORDS SINCE 1905. ALL THE IMFORMATION IS THERE IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO DO YOUR HOME WORK, THE PROGRESSIVES ATHIESTS HAVE ALL BEEN WORKING TWORDS THIS GOAL SINCE 1905, NOTICE HOW MUCH THEY ARE AGAINST CHRISTIANITY, WE ARE THE THREAT AGAINST THERE ONE WORLD GOAL WITH THE EVIL ONES DRIVING THE AGENDA..GOOGLE PROJECT HAARP, AND NASA PROJECT BLUE BEAM–SIFT THROUGH THE CONSPIRACY CRAP AND LOOK AT THE WHOLE OF THE IMFORMATIONS BACK BONE-THATS WERE THE 10% OF THE TRUTH AWAITS YOU..ITS TIME TO GET BACK TO JESUS AND TELL THE ATHIEST TO GO BACK TO HELL..

        P.S
        SORRY FOR THE BAD SPELLING-SPELL CHECK IS BROKEN!!

      • DaveH

        Forget the bad spelling, Greg, it’s the all Uppercase that is annoying.

      • gregory

        well dave, my computor is verry old and kind of does its own thing somtimes, like right now…lets move beyond that, have you started to investigate the imfo i provided for you?

      • gregory

        sorry dave for annoying you, I LOVE YOU..

      • DaveH

        Sorry Greg, but I haven’t read your all caps comment. I can’t find my earmuffs. So, I can’t answer that question.

      • gregory

        well dave, its alright with me…but I STILL LOVE YOU DEEPLY…

      • Claire

        Good grief. Be careful DaveH! lol

      • gregory

        Geee-Wizzz Claireeeee,

        YOU TOO!
        google nasa project blue beam, and project haarp.
        grasp the math involved and you will find the smug feelings melt away.
        the hardest lesson learn’d is the lesson learn’d the hard way.
        WE ARE NO LONGER IN CONTROLL, we just pray we survive!!

      • http://www.comcast.net louiseanne

        Why does everyone seem to be missing the boat? Why doesn’t everyone know our Constitution inside and out? Why if we do know it do we not demand that the people of this country use the upper hand we were given over the government to make them follow the Constitution to the letter. If we just followed our Constitution and continue to make life better for all our citizens, without predjudice, we could remain the greatest freest country for all of our lifetimes. Why are we arguing amongst ourselves and against ourselves when we together have all the power necessary to change everything including getting rid of anyone in the House and Senate, the White House, and beyond just by rising up, clogging the streets, and voting them all out. Why is it that ordinary Americans do not realize the potential of their power that our Founding Fathers gave to all of us?
        It is your money and my money that makes this government capable of giving back to each state what is necessary to make it all work. When half of the citizens do not contribute then they not only live for nothing but do not contribute either in any capacity. What would happen if the taxpayers stopped paying taxes? What would happen if all homeowners stopped paying on their mortgages? What would happen if we all stayed home for a week and shut our country down? Think about it.
        At least 3 presidents have used the Constitution and the law to remove illegal immigrants from this country to give good hearted and hard working Americans jobs. It states clearly that our government owes us at least that. We should all demand in every state, that we the American unemployed demand any and all jobs before any illegals.
        Why is that so hard for an American citizen to do? Why would an American citizen stop another American citizen from having what is rightfully theirs? What is wrong with this picture when Americans are fighting Americans instead of fighting countries and their citizens they send here to destroy the country? Why is everyone sitting on their hands trying to be politically correct when our country is going down the drain into Mexico? Or Cuba? Or Venezuela. It almost seems obvious that some Americans want us to go the way of Greece.
        Am I wrong?
        There is something to be said about individual pride, honesty, integrity, fairness, etc. that should be the forefront of each American ideally. When we wake up we should already have decided to be true Americans with pride, pride of country, lovers of God our leader of our Nation, (obviouly I don’t want any mortal president trying to play God , and lovers of our beautiful American Flag.
        Don’t you agree? What could be more important than to say you are an American where you live in FREEDOM of choice, FREEDOM of religion, FREEDOM of the right to become a rich man or woman, and the only rules are that you must follow a guideline of laws to protect every citizen from hurting each other. The Ten Commandments is our Creator’s set of LAWS to live by. What is wrong with anyone of them?
        Do you want to abuse your parents? steal, lie, cheat, murder, hate and plunder? SEe how easy it is to just follow some simple rules.
        DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULD WANT DONE TO YOU. That needs no explanation as all Americans understand what they imply and believe me so do all the illegals in this country. They will plunder everything that is right with this country, until they make it just like the country they left. One question? Why would you risk your life to leave a country you hate, to come to a country you say you love, and then try to turn the country you love, into the country you hate? Enough said.

      • gregory

        WE may need to tighten our belts and all quit our jobs for a while–that will stop the tax money comming in to the spoilers, hell of a statement, starve em out and replace em, see how they like that!!
        take it to the streets!!!

      • kate8

        Wow, louiseanne. Great post. You really said it all.

        Only thing is, the illegals aren’t leaving a country they hate. They are here to reclaim our land for Mexico. Just like too many other immigrants, whether legal or illegal, they are able to use our system against us. They get all kinds of free money (ours) for housing and living expenses, take our jobs, and leave us to struggle to live while we support them.

      • Mick for thought

        Sorry I have very little faith in rumors without any evidence to support them. It is kind of like the psychotic who is being followed by the invisible aliens from Jupiter.

      • gregory

        hey mick, how do you know he isnt being followed by the evil ones?

      • kate8

        Mick, again, the proof is so overwhelming that anyone else would have been convicted on half of it.

        Obama is the NWO’s agent, and they are protecting him by dissing everyone who comes forward. When someone brings this before the courts, the judge gets a “visit”, and the case is suddenly dismissed for “lack of standing” on the part of the plaintiff.

        If you don’t know the evidence against him, it’s because you haven’t bothered to look. You are just another empty-headed liberal parroting the ususal liberal mantras. You aren’t interested in the truth. You only want to further your agenda, by any and all means.

      • JeffH

        Mft…prove otherwise…your radical messiah has always fought for the poor underdogs. Re-read the introduction in your service manual!

      • Robert Wayne

        Only an imbecile or an outright communist would think that Obama is a citizen of this country. He’s spent millions hiding his past, including his birth certificate and his wife has been caught on tape letting it slip that he is a Kenyan, not an American.

      • Cathy
      • Barb

        Thank you Cathy!!!!! Dare you libs to read this link!

      • JLC

        Cathy — I just pulled up that link. Is there anything on record, ANYWHERE that he ever denied his Kenya birth at that time? If he were truly American-born, that would have been the logical time to get it cleared up. At least, I would have, but what does a dumb Indian know?

      • Jana

        For anyone that will not look it up, it the headline reads,

        KENYAN BORN OBAMA ALL SET FOR US SENATE. It is from an East African newspaper in June 2004 called before Obama was even a Senator.

      • Jana

        I hit the wrong button,
        This from the an East African news paper in 2004, before Obama was even a Senator. It is called the Sunday Standard.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        East African Standard. go to the home page.

      • timr

        Robert Wayne…..(words removed for offensive content)………….ALL racists are………..

      • Walt

        mick for thought, what a joke of a handle.

        The legal question is prove that he is.

        he can’t.

        You can’t.

        Everyone else has.

        mick for thoughtless, clueless, ignorant rhetoric.

    • http://minnesota MarieElise

      I agree with you Frank .they come from Mexico and he comes from Kenya . same people breaking the law here .!!!!

      • timr

        Hey……..Where do YOU come from…..??……or are you an american Indian??………….if your’e not, stop talking stupid

    • JeffH

      frank, maybe you should throw a towell over your “wet back”…your comment should be censored!

    • http://mah Toby

      Frank:

      Well said!

    • timr

      (Comment removed for offensive content)

    • timr

      Frank, your’e illegal…….and so is the Confederate Flag that is draped oround your neck………….

  • EltonJ

    I think Arizona legislature and governor had done the right thing. Pass an immigration law that enforces current immigration laws. The groups that are reacting wrongly are the Democrat old guard, La Raza, and other groups.

    The Federal government did fail on this, and so it’s up to the individual states to do something about it. United we stand, divided we fall.

    • CJ

      Yes, inforcing the laws is necessary, but the task of inforcement is beyond the ability of those doing it. The only effective way to stop the “flood” is to remove what they are comming into this country for. Take away the incentive and they simply don’t come. It’s the easiest way. We don’t have the money or manpower to do it any other way.

      • Norm

        CJ
        You are right.
        The problem is that many of the people who are protesting the most are the same people who hire the illegals at slave wages to pick their crops, watch their kids, and manicure their lawns. Eliminate their jobs, and prosecute people who hire them, and they will have no incentive for crossing the border.

      • Lee

        Slave wages? I was the one getting slave wages, and I worked for the State of Arizona!
        The field workers get from 8.50 to 15.00 an hour. Irrigators get 20.00, but they earn it!
        Anyone who thinks the migrants aren’t making money, haven’t seen them in stores! They buy 40.00 to 50.00 beef roasts, huge 35.00 hams, at least a dozen packages of multiple steaks, hamburger patties, the more expensive lunch meats, cheese by the enormous chunks, and a good seven or eight packages of bacon and sausage.
        Then, they pull out their “slave” wages! Rolls of cash big enough to choke a bull! They’ll peel off fifties, twenties and a few tens–very little is less than a ten.
        What did I buy with my 6.00 an hour? Wienies when they were on sale. Rarely got real beef, beef roasts were out of the question! Couldn’t afford them! Got the lower grade hamburger, very small packages of cheese, and some of the lower grades of pork.
        DON’T tell me the migrant workers are getting “slave” wages! Follow them around a grocery store, and you might change your mind!

      • Ken

        Lee, Norm, CJ, Elton
        You have it right
        The only thin you left out it the huge strain on our School Systwm and just as improtant is the strain on the Medical System. IE; Emergency Rooms where we can’t refuse treatment.
        We can’t keep this up. We will go broke

      • kate8

        Our government doesn’t really care about any of this. In fact, they want to overtax our system to the point of collapse, and this is just another part of doing that.

        The main reason for uncontrolled immigration, both legal and illegal, is to destroy our sense of unity, our nationalism. By flooding our nation with divergent cultures and languages, we are filled with people who hold no particular knowledge or concern for our American ideals. They are encouraged to keep their own cultural values and practices. Americans are restrained from “imposing” our values on others who are here, both in speech and expression.

        Destroying our sense of nationalism is intended to bring about our collapse as a sovereign nation, so we can be absorbed by the NWO.

        BTW, David Icke has some great videos on YouTube on this subject.

      • DaveH

        Sure,
        Obligate the Business leaders to be the immigration police because the government won’t do its job. That’s a solution?

      • Norm

        DaveH
        Could this be you asking for more government action??
        Surely you believe the “free enterprise” system can handle it’s own problems.
        Let’s see:
        Hugh oil spill due to circumventing proper backup procedures;
        Economic collapse due to greed driven polices so stupid that an average middle school kid could have spoted them;
        Selling out our economy to cheap foreign labor for short sighted profits;
        Illegals entering the US because they provide cheap labor allowing people to become very rich;
        etc. ad infinatum.
        The one, AND ONLY, goal of capitalism is profit. That’s a good thing – it’s been good for me and many other hard working Americans.
        But we need rules to operate by just like any other segment of society.
        And, my friend, I’m afraid only the government is equipped to handle unbridled greed.

      • DaveH

        It is one of the Constitutional Powers of the Government, Norm, to protect the country from invasion. So, yes, it is their job.
        The oil spill was created by a Big Government sycophant company (BP) which has been advertising for years about how “green” it is. So much for the “Green” movement.
        You’re right, the economic collapse was due to greed driven policies – the Government coercing banks to lend to unqualified borrowers and the semi-government Federal Reserve loose money policies. So yeah, the greed of the voters who put Big Government in power for their perceived turn at the trough. By the way, Norm, you make those school kids look downright brilliant.
        Our manufacturers are moving overseas because Government is sucking the finances out of the economy, and unions are demanding exhorbitant wages.
        If you study Hong Kong, with one of the densest populations in the world, any normal person (non-zealot) can see that it is not the increase in the population that diminishes an economy. It is the increase in the size of Government that wreaks an economy.
        http://www.heritage.org/index/country/HongKong

        You have no legs to stand on when it comes to accusing anybody of greed, Norm. You and your Liberal friends have no problem when it comes to voting to take other peoples money away for your own misguided purposes. Those people whose money you want to forcibly take away, earned that money legally. You are the greedy one. Own it.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Norm,
        First Bush and then Obummer in April 2009 gave BP a bypass on those back-up systems!!! sweems we can’t trust big Government either!!!

      • JeffH

        Lest we forget the role of the SEIU for promoting the uncivilized unrest by the “Che” factions that are threatening the core of “legalized” immigrants.

        Obama’s organizing skills are still in practice…

        SEIU Announces AZ Boycott

        Send Arizona Governor Jan Brewer your thoughts about the despicable SB-1070
        Republican Governor Jan Brewer just signed a law that would encourage unchecked racial profiling of anyone “suspected” of being undocumented. The law creates the threat of deportation for lawfully present immigrants and US citizens seeking work if they do not have their documentation on them at all times and punishes local small businesses for working within the rules of the federal immigration system

        In the wake of a blatant attempt to copy the draconian, anti-immigrant legislation recently passed in Arizona, Minnesota Republicans have felt the backlash of fair-minded citizens and leaders unwilling to accept discriminatory laws. State Rep. Steve Drazkowski, the author of the copycat legislation, sees it as “common sense.”
        http://www.seiu.org/immigration/

      • Mike

        We have moved on beyond the descrimination B.S. and now rely on COMMON SENCE.. If they are here ILLIGALLY then they have to GO!!!!!!
        Has nothing to do with descrmination and all to do with being legal. These people cost usmuch more then the average hard working AMERICAN makes. You have no idea how much we pay in taxes to cover their medical, via the emeregency rooms all over the country, and our school system. THEY ARE BREAKING THIS COUNTRY!!!!!
        It is past time for our WORTHLESS GOVERNMENT to do what we pay them to do (PROTECT OUR LEGAL CITIZENS).
        GREAT JOB TO ARIZONA!!!!

      • Rick C

        Jeff,
        Very little of what you said here is true. If SB-1070 is despicable, then you must think the current Federal laws, which this bill mirrors, are even more despicable.

        There is absolutely no threat of RACIAL profiling. Assuming the law is targeted towards Mexican’s, what race do you think they are? Mexican? No, that’s a nationality composed of a number of races. Hispanic? No, that’s an ethnicity that’s composed of a number of diverse Spanish speaking cultures which, also includes a number of races. North American Natives, now that is arguably a racial group, but I don’t think most Illegal aliens coming across our southern border would identify themselves as such.

        Terms like racist, fascist, and Nazi are being misused and abused to vilify people who just want the government to do its job and stop doing everything else under the sun.

        The law is not anti-immigrant its anti-Illegal Immigration. Obfuscation of the true purpose of the law, is nothing more than a lie meant to garner emotional appeal. Draconian, I think not, just a bit hyperbolic don’t ya think.

      • Walt

        You are the despicable one here, jeffh. And you obviously are extremely unintelligent and uninformed. You are attempting to give rights to those who are here illegally. You don’t seem to understand this is a battle for our country, a war. Illegals do not earn or deserve free emergency care on our tab. They do not earn the right or deserve to be allowed to work under the table, while collecting food stamps, or to drive on our streets without a license, or garbage up our neighborhoods. Quite the opposite, all they earn is criminal status. They deserve to be jailed under circumstances that would be befitting of the treatment they would receive in their own country(no air conditioning, t.v., three hots and a cot), and then deported. If or when they return illegally, they should be placed in chains and required to perform hard labor to the benefit of our society. If they return a third time, it’s three strikes your out, chains forever. And by the way, I’ve been jailed in mexico, so I know from what I say. My charge was whispering to my friend, they stole everything I had, my nice shirt, belt, boots, wallet. They incarcerated me for three days and fed me nothing. There were no bunks in the cell, and they gave me no blankets. It is hard to be civil to people like you, jeffh, who don’t have a clue in this world, and will always be too clueless to ever get a clue. You are thankless and oblivious to what this country has provided for you. If this world were fair, as you like to preach, you would be the next one deported.

      • JeffH

        Rick C & Mike…re-read the information I have provided and understand why I posted it…that is what the SEIU IS PROMOTING, not I.
        I’m all in for supporting Arizona and Gov. Brewer and have sent an email of support stating as much.

        The polls Show Overwhelming Support for Arizona’s Law, and I do too.

      • JeffH

        Walt, before I accuse you of being a liberal because of your name calling, stop..read what I posted, go to the website I have linked and try to understand that I am merely pointing out the SEIU’s role in creating civil unrest that affects not only all of us citizens and Arizona, but the “legal” immigrants that speak up in support of the Arizona lay.

        You have let your angry emotions cloud your ability to comprehend the gist of my post.

      • Walt

        My apologies, JeffH. I will re-read.

      • JeffH

        Rick C & Mike & Walt…just an FYI, I am in full agreement with all of you and do understand your quick reactions to my post…not offended at all.

      • Rick C

        Jeff, if you were being ironic, please be a little more blatant about it in the future. People new to the blog might think you were a progressive.

      • Al Sieber

        JeffH, thanks for straighting this out, I knew what you were talking about the first time, I went to that website yesterday.

      • Save America Susie

        I am sure you already know this, but SOME people of Mexican decent are on board to try and get California back as the northern part of Mexico. In the early 1800′s California was part of Mexico. Los Angeles and San Diego were just upper Baja. La Raza is especially pushing this in So Cal. You hear bits of news about it now and then. AZ and New Mexico are no doubt on their dream wish list. Texas also was Mexico before the Alamo era, of course. But boundaries change according to wars and treaties over time. At one time Spain owned this piece of real estate as we know. The French also got into the mix. Before that it was owned by the various central American Indian tribes. Even the Aztecs. It is the dream of SOME to so infiltrate the USA with Mexican illegals, than soon they will be the majority, especially with “anchor babies” and expanding families. If all of these people are given amnesty and then become part of the USA legally, they can then VOTE and decided to become part of Mexico again. (I am not so sure they can legally do that though.) At least they THINK so! Not a shot would have to be fired. I know Texas could do so, as they have that written into their charter that they can succeed from the union. But they may decide to just be an independent country in the FAR future. Who know what the USA will look like in 100 years?

      • Save America Susie

        I might add that many people of Mexican descent (such as my son-in-law) do not feel this way. They are Americans whose families have lived here since CALIFORNIA was declared a state. They don’t even know how to speak Spanish, and feel just as we do about being patriotic about America for the ideas of the Founders. None of them want illegals in this country.

      • Save America Susie

        P.S. I may be wrong about the Aztecs going this far up into the California area. They may just be Central America. But I know Spain and France sure had their wrestlings over the land grabs of Mexico.

      • JeffH

        Rick C, you’re right.

      • Rick C

        I see now, you were posting an article. It wasn’t apparent at first glance.

        Maybe if you could use blockquotes it would make your intentions clear.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        JeffH,
        I too have done this to othere and it’s just a question of reading before before touching keys. I’m guilty of doing it with libertytrain about the troops, forgot that she was the mother of service members!! I have misread a couple of others so it is up to the reader to notice the QUOTATION marks!

      • Gary

        What that very brave, very courageous, very intelligent and very JUST “Iron Lady” named Arizona Governor Jan Brewer did by signing the new Arizona State Anti-Illegal Immigration Laws that are all a mirror image of our current United States Federal Anti-Illegal Immigration Laws(that have not been realistically and have not been genuinely and have not been honestly enforced with full integrity, with full transparency, with full accountability and with complete and total honesty by the current corrupt political power hungry, cowardly and criminally irresponsible, cowardly and criminally negligent and cowardly and criminally abusive U.S. Congress and the Criminal Political Usurper Presidential Imposter and Presidential Impersonater “Manchurian Candidate” Criminal named Barack Hussein Who Is Insane Obama) is the very first step to filling the vacuum and to filling the void that has been created and left by the now defunct, extremely corrupt, decrepit, disfunctional, disconnected, deceptive, deceiving, dishonest, disingenuous and totally derelict of duty Criminal Imposter U.S. Federal Government of fullfilling their sworn obligations and fulfilling their sworn duties and fullfilling their sworn oaths to the U.S. Constitution and to all U.S. American Citizens to always continuously uphold, protect, defend, preserve, nurture and ENFORCE the ENTIRE Constitution Of The United States at all times and with 100% total integrity, 100% total transparency, 100% total honesty and with 100% total accountabilty at all times without any interruptions, without any delays, without any conditions, without any excuses and without any exceptions of any types at any time to the full and to the complete intent of all Constitutional Laws everywhere and at all times. The Honorable Arizona Governor Jan Brewer was only the first person to step forward with the brave gutts, the courageous backbone and the morally decent brilliant leadership to do what must be done, especially in the State Of Arizona by legitimately, honestly and genuinely and LEGALLY ENFORCING the ENTIRE Constitution Of The United States, to begin to save and protect all the U.S. American Citizens within the State Of Arizona and all the rest of our Constitutional Republic Of The United States Of America from absolute anarchy, from absolute tyranny, from absolute foreign national fascist imperialism and total ruin by an Anti-American and Anti-U.S. Constitution motley multi-ethnic collection of ILLEGAL ALIEN Foreign National Ethnic Cultural Terrorist, Foreign National Ethnic Social Terrorist and Foreign National Ethnic Rascist Terrorist Invading Multi-Ethnic Foreign National Civilian Horde Criminal Trespasser Army Of Foreign Occupation and Foreign Invasion at many different locations on United States soil, especially and chronically in the State Of Arizona. The only form of racism that is being comitted is being committed by that ILLEGAL ALIEN Foreign National Ethnic Racist Terrorist Imperialistic Fascist Civilian Criminal Army Of Foreign Occupation on U.S. soil and Foreign Invasion on U.S. soil and by all the shameful and criminal Anti-Constitution and Anti-Constitutional U.S. Federal Immigration Laws U.S. American Citizen Hypocrite Treasonous Sellout Traitors, especially many elected politicians in the U.S. Congress and especially ALL ANCHOR BABY FRAUDULANT-U.S. American PSEUDO-CITIZENS, who are all criminal accomplices to aiding and abetting all forms of illegal immigration and who are all criminal accomplices to aiding and abetting all forms of criminal behavior that has been and is being committed by all foreign national illegal aliens within the sovereign borders of the Constitutional Republic Of The United States.

      • tim

        Rick, how can you say, that Racial profiling won’t occur……….???
        I am ALWAYS an advocate for the rights of citizens, and the legal citizens of Arizona will be singled out as much as the illegals (the legals who might LOOK like an illegal……)………..there’s no way around it……………This issue is difficult, but i don’t believe that legal American citizens should be subjected to this, and THAT is exactly what’s going to happen…………and what about the Police…..this puts them in a no-win situation………..

        As I’ve said to Jana, I don’t live in a border state, so I can’t speak personnally about this subjject, and I’ve even said, that if the police are ok with an organized group of milita people, or better yet, former Soldiers or ex-cops, who are hired to help, I have NO problem with that…………….but “combing” the state for dark-skinned citizens, and asking for their papers……..it will get ugly…………

      • Jana

        Norm,
        The ones I see protesting are the illegals themselves, along with some that come in and instigate these protests.
        The illegals are not allowed to protest in their own country, and most likely would not have protested like this without a political group coming in and working them up and telling them that they would not be deported for protesting.
        In this country, we have paid professional protesters that go in and incite others to protest and even organize these protests.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Jana,
        I couldn’t believe my eyes, but our newspaper reported that 80% of the population were behind this law! Coming from a ewspaper, I expect they didn’t mean to print that!!!

      • tim

        As I’ve said before……..BOTH political parties have ignored this issue, and so have the companies who hire these people, without any documentation…….and what about the Large agribusinesses………who meet these people at the border, with the sole intent to hire them????……………

      • http://MSN Bob Steele

        I believe that most of the illegal Mexican immigrants are trying to escape their corrupt government, tyranny and oppression. They are seeking the freedom and opportunity individuals in America have been blessed with thanks to the the founders of our Country. We can not remove this condition to stop the flood of those who choose to come to America illegally. I feel sympathy and compassion for these people just as most everyone does but we must secure our borders and compel these individuals to use the proper legal means for immigration. By not doing whatever is necessary to secure our borders we open ourselves to undesirable drug traffic and terrorist as well as the good citizens of Mexico that swell the labor force at a time of record unemployment. Its a bad situation and by doing the right thing as Arizona did it will seem to some as racist and not humane. I really hope the actions of our government are not motivated to achieve political gain.
        Bob

      • Hugh Jordin

        It is easy to feel sympathetic to illegal residents trying to escape poverty. But the same can be said of a poor man robbing a bank to feed his kids. It still doesn’t make breaking the law right.

        They should be treated humanly but ushered out of the country and told to get on the end of the line like any kid in school who cuts ahead

        Some illegals are doubtlessly wonderful individuals, but they intentionally broke our laws and should be sent home like party crashers and take their garbage with them.

        They are draining our resources at a time when Americans are struggling.

      • Jeep

        Bob, I must take issue with your compassion argument. Check with some websites such as the Center For Immigration Studies. Some of the “interesting” facts you may find include such gems as, illegal immigrants collectively represent a group that is a significant menace to the public. 80% have committed serious crimes in addition to immigration violations, and 40% have violent crime histories. Or, that 25-50% of gansters arrested in Va for gang activity are illegal. I think you should look at that with an open mind.

      • timr

        Jeep, your figures are way off………Arizona themselves, have acknowledged that most of the illegals are here, to find a better way of life………it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t protect the Borders, but I don’t want MY Constitution TRAMPLED on, because all of you wouldn’t feel that way, if you got stopped soley because of you skin color……….

      • Jeep

        Well, Timr, I guess govt studies do not count…but, let’s just say that 100% of illegal’s have committed a crime in this country. After all it is a crime to enter our country illegally. Any arguments with that?

      • timr

        Well, Jeep……NO, I don’t believe those studies, because they are put out there to scare people………I’m not saying that there isn’t a problem, but to say that 80% of illegals from Mexico commit illegal crimes once they get here, I think is B.S………..Most of these people are desparate, nad they want to work………To say that most are criminals, is just plain not true………..We should protect our borders, Jeep, but I’m not going to say that virtually every Mexican who “jumps-the-fence” is doing so to commit crimes on Americans…….

      • Jeep

        Timr, I temper my statements with the fact that, like you, I do not believe that all illegals are here to commit further offenses. Where I believe we differ is in the meaning of illegal immigration. Not the lawer-ese meaning, but what it means for America. Currently, western states spend billions (undisputed) to provide illegal’s with education, health care, etc. By making them legal, this will undoubtably rise exponentially. And, it will not stop another generation from coming over illegally. It makes no sense to not make an effort to secure our border AND attempt to repatriate citizens of a foreign country to thier place of origin. They are simply not Americans. I am all for legal immigration, as our country has benefitted greatly in years past and to the present from those seeking opportunity legally. But, the bottom line is this is not thier home, period.

      • timr

        JEEP, ot’s a difficult issue, and maybe a Fence would work………..but like I told one of our fellow bloggers, I don’t live in a Border state, so I don’t know what it’s like, but I DO know, that there are illegals working right here in Milwaukee……..I guess if they make it this far, they are probably not going to rape or kill anyone…………I agree, though, that something needs to be done………..

      • Jeep

        Timr, I read your post. I am glad to see that you and I, who are probably pretty far apart on the political spetrum, can first have a civil discussion and actually find some common ground. It is quite refreshing. However, I do look forward to future heated debates! Fun, fun, fun. Anyway, I grew up in Az on a ranch near the border south of Tucson. For years illegals crossing the border caused many probelms through theft and trespassing. It was quite frustrating. In recent years the petty crimes have turned more violent with home invasions and the like. I am now living in Va and thought this problem was far away. Boy was I wrong! This state is full of illegal Hispanics and others. Some are laying low and just trying to survive, but gang problems in particular are a real concern. Oh well, Milwaukee is a great town! How are Laverne and Shirley? Just showing my age…

      • libertytrain

        Timr – one quick check about those rapes that don’t happen in your area – while there are more – I just copied this from stoptheinvasionoforegon.wordpress.com – of course it is in Green Bay which is closer to the Canadian border
        On August 19, 2003, two Mexican farm laborers, illegal aliens, committed arguably the most heinous crime in the history of Wisconsin’s Green Bay. They abducted a 26-year-old woman from the parking lot of a Main Street nightclub, drove many miles to a remote area in another county, repeatedly gang-raped her, then doused her with lighter fluid and set her on fire.
        “The woman testified she heard her attackers ‘laugh, get in the truck, and leave.’” Fortunately or unfortunately, she survived but with “burns on 61% of her body”, including her face. She will be grotesquely disfigured for life. She also “suffered” and survived, “respiratory failure”. [Man Enters Pleas In Kidnapping, Rape, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, April 7, 2005]
        In non-diverse Green Bay, the victim, then a mother of two young children, can be assumed to be white, although of course the politically correct Wisconsin newspapers didn’t say.
        The two monsters: Gregario Morales, then 27 with a wife and three children, and Juan Nieto, 24, apparently the more vicious of the two and rumored to have possibly committed a similar rape/burning in Arizona. Morales was offered a plea bargain in exchange for his testimony against Nieto. (more…)
        Two glaring examples:
        Marcelino Rivero
        Heriberto Rivera
        If any of these offenders escaped for example, most people would be on the lookout for “White” men.
        Wisconsin Department of Corrections
        SOR Registrant Information

      • timr

        Jeep like I’ve said before, I haven’t lived in a Border state, so I trust what you say is true…………and don’t worry, I’m 47 so I remember Laverne & Shirley, AND…Happy days quite well……..Actually I lived about a mile from Knapp street, where Laverne & Shirley lived, on the show……………

        I realize that we are far apart politically, but we can have a civil discussion…….I’ve been guilty, I admit, for ranting about Race, but it’s what I see……….

      • timr

        Thanks for the info, Libertytrain……..my point was, we are much father away from the border, so illegals here, are less inclined to committ crimes………with some exceptions , as you pointed out………….

      • libertytrain

        Timr – I’m not on the border or even close to it – yet there probably isn’t a week that goes by without some news report of an illegal alien killing somebody – usually another illegal but not always. It’s everywhere – and the problem is growing.

      • Save America Susie

        Bob, Hugh & Jeep, I can see both sides of it. I am sure there are those who are not basic criminals who are just desperate, except to break the law to come here. But that is still a crime, as Hugh says! But I have also read those stats you presented, Jeep, and it ain’t pretty! Many rapes and murders in So. Cal have happened as well, because of illegals I noted in the news. And more than Mexicans come in. People from all nationalities. A recent news special opened my eyes about middle easterners coming to Central America, and learning Spanish to blend in with Mexican Citizens, and then escaping across our Southern American border.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Susie,
        I can’t remember the site, but there is one that shows a number ofr wanted illegals and their crime. It also shows that a number of them molest and rape children, rape women, murder, then jump back across the border to come back later after the main heat is over. SEAL THE BORDERS!!!!!

      • tim

        Well said, Bob…………..

    • John Handforth

      The actions that Arizona is taking are long overdue. To be truly effective, we need California, New Mexico and Texas to join them.

      We may have to create stronger, time restricting inspections at the border. I am referring to vehicle safety inspections, vehicle insurance examinations, requiring that the insurance be valid in this Country and things like health screenings at the border.

      We should have open southbound access, allowing Mexicans to go home.

      We should charge a $100 entry fee to EVERYONE crossing the border northbound. That would include Americans that took American currency and spent it in a foreign country.

      There are limitations on the amount of cash that can cross our borders. Enforce them. Both ways.

      Those that try to cross the border illegally, should be subject to the same rules, except for higher fees to enter America. If they don’t have the money required, take what they have, fingerprint them and have them deported. If their prints show up again, let them stay in a prison tent in Maricopa County for three months before deporting them. It seems to work on American lawbreakers.

      I used to feel sorry for them, but I’m tired of having to PRESS ONE for English.

      • DaveH

        Sieg Heil!

      • Rick C

        Your childish retort, only serves to diminish the true evil that was perpetrated by the Nazi’s.

      • DaveH

        Do you think the Nazi’s started overnight and without public support?
        It is a much more childish trait to ignore potential danger than to prepare for it.

      • DaveH

        Ignorant enablers are what allows tyrants to take hold. People like yourself, Rick, that turn a blind eye to the growth of government as it takes more of our rights away and harasses us more.

      • Rick C

        I’m not turning a blind eye to anything. My point is, you should try to avoid name calling. The abuse of certain kinds of name calling tends to dilute its seriousness and is otherwise unproductive.

      • DaveH

        Duh, Rick, It was you who started the name-calling.

      • timr

        Never mind the Corporations and the crooks on Wall Street that get away with what they do……….You want a check on government, fine……I agree, but we need a check on our Financial system, too……….

      • Bruce

        Hooray for Arizona who is standing tall as an example to all other states on how to protect our citizens from invasion. Shame on the current administration for making what they should be doing look like racism and inviting more aliens to break the law. Shame on the states that have decided to boycott the state of Arizona because of their stand to protect the citizens of their state. Those that are cheerleading the boycott effort should be exiled to Mexico because they certainly are NOT for the UNITED States of America. We states need to stand together. We states need to applaud and assist the Arizona efforts to stop the invasion that is hurting our countries economy and injuring our citizens. This is a gate that needs closing, people from other coutnries can also come through this gate that the current administration has left open and apparently encourages it to be held open for anyone else who decides to invade. I am disgusted.

    • Gail

      EltonJ- I agree that Gov. Jan Brewer did the right thing and AZ should be applauded on the way they handled the whole thing. It is not a racial issue, it is a legal issue. We must uphold our Constitution. We are fighting a war overseas to protect one country from invading and forcing their will on others, but we don’t lift a finger to protect our homeland from the droves of illegals pouring across our borders. I am sorely disappointed in Austin, TX for boycotting AZ. So childish.
      If you really think that will help, boycott Washington!! They’ve really caused some problems.

      • http://YAHOO LOUISE COOPER

        AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Connie

        Thanks for agreeing with AZ!!! We need all the sopport we can get… Being boycotted is going to hurt our state… What we need is for everyone that thinks we did what is right is come and see what a beautiful state we have and boy cot the boy cotters!!!!! We lived across from a drop house and it is sad as they are brought in at night and they don’t see the light of day till they are moved.. We didn’t see them come and we didn’t see them go but we saw the trash cans!!!! The house is always dark and closed off… We now have a mexican family that lives there and they are a good family… We just want them to come in leagl!!!!!! and work and pay taxes… Learn english!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • kate8

        I say we go out of our way to support AZ, and boycott all santuary cities.

      • kate8

        That’s sanctuary cities.

      • Save America Susie

        I like the idea of “BUY-COTT” instead of BOYCOTT. Counter balancing the boycott by actual buying from AZ as SUPPORT for their choice to stand up for our Federal Laws. The fact that various California city council boards have voted to BOYCOTT AZ is childish. California has no right to punish AZ for her opinion on what is right for the country. That is equal to a child jumping up and down saying “I’ll fix you!”, just because someone made a decision to protect themselves.

      • kate8

        SAS, with liberals it is always “do things our way or we’ll force you”. I for one am really sick of it.

        Pretty much everything about liberalism is childish, absurd, and upside down. They know it, too. They just have to control everyone and everything.

      • Save America Susie

        Kate8–That’s it, its all about control. But that is what the middle east is like: control as apposed to freedom. Sure we must have rules, we are not for anarchy. But there is balance. “Common Sense”. I recently reread the original by Thomas Payne. Very prophetic as well.

      • kate8

        The laws are continually getting more intrusive into our daily lives, health, habits, beliefs, speech, social preferences, etc. You name it, they want to regulate it and control it.

        What they are after is a totally compliant populace. They can gauge how conditioned we are by how much we comply with the most nit-picky rules. That is why I say we must refuse to comply with laws that overstep governmental authority. Otherwise, we will soon find ourselves with no personal choices at all.

        Aside from its just plain toxicity, the reason they put fluoride in water (and medications, foods) is that it affects the brain and makes us more compliant, less able to think for ourselves. I am fortunate to live in an area that has, so far, never fluoridated our water, but we get it in other ways. Fluoride was first used in Nazi Germany, for the same reason.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Susie,
        Just heard on discovery that Miami has twice the murder rate of the rest of the country!! If that’s so, what with the rate of LA county Cal., then they must have one hell of a murder rate. what a mess!!!

      • timr

        So the Patriot Act, wasn’t intrusive??????

        Or have we forgotten???

  • clyde carter

    If oboma can get the mexicans nationalized he will be assured reelection
    next time with the mexican and the black vote.

    • Sidewinder

      Kate8
      Please refer to yesterdays discussion, as I hope I have provided you with better insight as to why I feel the way I do about GWB.

      And I have expanded on why I think armed Militias are a bad idea.

      • kate8

        A couple of things, Sidewinder. First, I hear you about W, and I am the last to defend him. As I said, he was just following orders from the top. I just think your personal vendetta against a puppet is a waste of energy, but if it serves you then, who am I….

        Second, I disagree about the militia. The one’s I’ve known are patriotic, balanced, honest people, many veterans and even ex-law enforcement. They are well-informed and well-connected, and know exactly what they are up against. They are not about to wreak havoc on innocent civilians, as these are the ones they want to protect. They are not going to do something reckless and stupid like storm DC. These people want to preserve liberty, by peaceful means if possible. But they are also prepared to defend it by whatever means available if it comes to that, and only as a last resort.

        These guys will go down fighting rather than submit to absolute tyranny. You know, like Patrick Henry. “Give me liberty or give me death”. Are there the movie versions of crazed red-neck wackos out there? I don’t know. I haven’t encountered any, but then there are all types of people. I suspect that the ones advocating violence are government plants, in order to set them up, like what just happened in Michigan or Minnesota or wherever it was.

        I just feel that these people are living up to their Constitutional obligation. We have a duty to not meekly submit to tyranny, to resist and refuse to comply with statutes that violate our Supreme Law, which was set to protect the people from gov’t. We can only do what we can, and then leave the rest to Divine Providence.

        Lastly, liberalism does not advocate less government intrusion. That is decidedly conservatism. Liberalism has come to mean ever-increasing government intervention in every aspect of life. Conservaitsm is not just about business and property, it is about smaller government and greater personal responsibility.

      • Sidewinder

        Hi kate.
        No….LOL…I think “I” would be the last to defend W. LOL!
        I just want him to gain his rightful place in history.
        Again I see what you are driving at. The bigger picture, and I do agree. Global government.

        Assuming the worst will happen….Global Government…microchips…ect…

        My hope would be that America could save itself, and serve as a kind of haven, during that period. America sports a rather powerful Army and a huge arsonal. We could protect ourselves well. If we became more isolationist, with less global trade we could become more self sufficient. Global sanctions would not hurt us.
        America is our home…we should try to save it.
        Think I know where you are coming from. Its a good place. I am not sure of the timeline, but my hope is to stave off the enevitable for a few years…

        And I do agree there are differences in the stated and unstated purposes of the various Militias. The Michigan Militia, has managed to survive in the post 911 era. I am sure they are fully bugged, but their agenda is different than the agenda of other groups. Some of these groups do in fact advocate terrorism.

        I would never say, not to be a gun owner. But I do say, guns and politics do not mix. Not in this era.

        ” But they are also prepared to defend it by whatever means available if it comes to that, and only as a last resort.”

        Yes…Last Resort. If real voting is eliminated, and we have no say….then the picture changes. I agree.
        My fear is that violence NOW, will only serve to speed up the process. As long as we can still be heard, then violence is not an option. Like I said, Militias/violence will only play into their hands.

        Truth be told, its unlikely they will give us no voice. I believe they will continue to give us the illusion of freedom and in that, they must pretend to listen. A carefully prepared case will have them agreeing. It will take brilliance, but I believe there could be a way to hang them with their own rope. There are so many anti terror laws on the books….and if in fact the government has engaged in terrorism/False Flag Operations, then there may be a way to hang them with those laws….

        Like I said before, you would be squaring off against AbramsTanks, Apachee Gunships, 50 caliber gatlin guns….Its silly to think of violence. You are not effective dead.

        I would never say in good conscience to submit to tyranny.
        I think at our base beliefs Kate, we are on the same page. We differ in methodology.
        Consider the wisdom in the nonviolent approach. I believe its most effective. When you advocate violence you put a target on yourself. Not that you are…but I say cross that bridge if and when we get to it. It shouldn’t be a consideration now. The Republic has recieved a death blow, but its not dead yet.

        You eluded to government plants advocating violence. Yes. Thats why we must be especially carefull NOT to advocate violence and to steer clear of those who may be construed or misconstrued as being such. Its all about how it would look in court or on the news to those lacking the details. Steer clear of violence.

        Concerning Liberalism….Liberals do in fact belive in little or no government interference in personal matters. But they do believe in high government interference in economic matters. Trust me…. Not every aspect of liberalism is bad. But I cannot swallow the whole pill, as there is so much I do not agree with. So I reject it as a political philophsy. But I agree with parts of it. I am a Libertarian.
        Traditional Conservatism does in fact, believe in governmental inteference with personal matters. {Think Abortion….I am opposed to it myself, think Gay marriage..personal matters.} But little in economic matters. And again, although I agree with parts of it, I cannot swallow the whole pill. I don’t want my morality dictated to me.
        My position is to draw the best ideas from both basic ideaologies. Thats what primiarily makes me a Libertarian.
        I am correct on this.

        “Conservaitsm is not just about business and property, it is about smaller government and greater personal responsibility.”
        I do agree…those are the virtues of conservatism I do embrace.

        During the Reagan era, when I first began learning of the European Union, I became alarmed. It seemed all to familiar with what I’d read in Revelations. It got my attention. I began to pay attention to the news, and before long became a news junky. I’ve followed the news ever since. Your concerns are justified.
        But I caution against listening to sensationalists such as Alex Jones. Alex is either a self serving sensationalist or he’s working for the Propaganda Machine. The Great Slip uttered by GHWBush, the term, New World Order may mean many things. It could very well in fact mean Global Government and probably does. It could also be refering to a Post Soviet World where America took a dominient position in world affairs. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, America was the last remaining Super Power. It could mean an era where America is instramental in shaping the world…unchallanged.

        I do not know. There are whole conspiracy idealogies built upon that term…New World Order.
        I am well aware of theorys involving international bankers, decendents of Royalty, Luciferians, Rothchilds, Zionists, ect. All these theorys may in fact be true….

        But…we do not know the timeline exactly.
        Lets focus on America for now, and make it strong, and safe for us.
        If Global Government is a fact…then theres nothing we can do.. We are not allowed to vote or have any say in it.
        We cannot stop it.
        But we still have power here in America, although its fading…

        I sincerely do respect your opinion Kate…I really do.

        Nice to talk to you.

      • Vicki

        There are 4 boxes that we must use to protect our liberty and freedom. Each has a purpose. They must be used in the proper order. Use out of order will not gain us the desired result. Those boxes are

        Soap box: (What we are doing here :)

        Ballot box: The place we elect those we believe will best represent us.

        Jury box: The place where we nullify illegal laws by refusing to convict persons charged with “crimes” under the laws we deem as a society to be illegal (Boy does the government HATE that. See the FIJA – Fully Informed Jury Amendment)

        Ammo box: The place we go when all else but God’s grace and love have failed.

        That last box must only be opened as a last possible resort.

      • JeffH

        Sidewinder, I enjoyed the read and I pretty much agree with what you said. No one will ever be able to make everybody happy with government, and a pot pourie of ideals can satisfy most. We all want to maintain our freedoms and liberties and not sink like the EUs are doing. We have to get some semblence of order back in our own government before we can concentrate on blocking the globalists.
        The worlds economy as well as the recent stock market slide are all a part of the controlling IMF conspirators. That I do believe. So I say, tighten the belts real tight because, it will get worse before it gets better. The US is the last hurdle for these globalists to have full control of the worlds economy and thustly the world.

      • Vicki

        Groups claiming to be militias but advocating terrorism are clearly not. Militias by design are purely a defensive force. Thus it is easy to spot the difference.

        But pay attention to their actual speech and actions and not just what the media claims. (See Waco, Ruby Ridge for recent historical examples of non violent people that were painted to be bad by the media or government agents.)

      • Sidewinder

        I hear you Vicki…

        But….what about the 6th commandment… Thou shall not kill?

        I don’t see exceptions….
        Perhaps there is a more effective way than placing yourselves in the line of fire of an Abrams Tank or Apachee Gunship?

        I think God opposes suicide. Your life…its not you’rs to take.

        God gave you a brain, I think he expects you to use it. Look to Him to receive brilliance. Brilliance is mighter than a gunship.

        There are Severe Anti Terror laws on the books now. Anyone caught engaging in terrorism, suffers the worst….

        Think about it.

        If those in government have engaged in False Flage, terrorist operations against the American people, then according to their own law, they get the worst.

        Prove the case against them…

      • Sidewinder

        Its a problem of degrees Vicki.
        Labels are a powerful weapon.
        Once the public associates Militias with Terrorism, then “Any” militia is suspect in the court of public opinion.

        I have long known, that some Militias were good in their beliefs, and some were not. The general public is not versed in the differences. The term “Militia” becomes synonomous with ” DomesticTerrorist.”

        And the government has gone all out to asociate Militias with Domestic Terrorists.

        You are not wrong.

        But I think it wiser to steer clear of anything calling itself a Militia. At least for appearances. Disassociate yourselves with Armed Militias.
        A different kind of Militia is needed. One with more effective weapons than bolt action rifles, or even semi automatics.
        One that uses the laws that are still on the books. The laws they haven’t had the guts to remove yet. The very laws that will expose their traitorous deeds for what they are. And Anti Terrorism Laws to hang them with.

        Do you understand?

        Its MORE POWERFUL than guns.

      • Vicki

        Jesus already taught us how to handle the claims that some group is good or bad. We were warned that Satan is the great deceiver. We were warned that there would be many false prophets. Look to the actions of a group to know their nature. We have to teach our children well to not just accept what anyone says but to look for themselves to see the truth.

        As to the severe laws about terrorism that is why we must use the jury box to defend those whos actions are not terrorism.

        As to the power you alluded to the soap box ( the pen is mightier than the sword ) that is why we have these discussions. So that we may always be able to use the first 3 boxes and never have to open the 4th.

      • Sidewinder

        Hi Vicki…I am so glad you and kate stepped up to the plate and provided an opportunity to discuss this most important topic. In my opinion, we cannot discuss this enough.
        My apologies to Chip for being so far off topic…I haven’t even commented on today’s story.

        “The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard”

        We have laws for that. In the State’s veiw, armed militias are a part of the National Guard.
        Thats part of their claim that citizens have no right to weapons themselves. I of course disagree.

        ““The militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, … all men capable of bearing arms;…”
        — “Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic”, 1788 (either Richard Henry Lee or Melancton Smith).”

        I agree, the founders clearly wanted an armed citizen Militia to defend freedom. People like you and me. I agree.

        But again, although the virtues of Liberty are Timeless, we do not live in colonial times. Liberty may be Timeless, but the methods to defend it must change. The methods must enter the modern world in order to be effective.
        You face an adversary who has taken 200 years to perfect his power, has spent billions of dollars to advance weaponary to levels still not understood by most men. Who employs skills in psychological warfare, that you cannot dream of, who has an arsenal of chemical, biological weapons, and nuclear weapons.

        But worse, has 15 different intelligence agencies who work with no oversight, and can commit acts you never thought possible. They manupilate elections overseas, commit assinations, manipulate economies, you name it.
        The reason Ayatola Komeni took those hostages in 1979, was because he feared a US government attack after his rise to power. He came to that conclusion after witnessing years of CIA manipulation in his country. The world hates America, not because of Americans, but because of our behind the scenes activities, that most Americans know nothing about.

        Read Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins
        That book will flesh out a deeper understanding of what you face.

        You are not wrong.
        But I urge you to consider more effective methods.

        Stick with the concept that the pen is mighter than the sword.

        You are out gunned.

        I am with you in spirit on the militia idea. But not an armed Militia. Arms against the government are totally foolish.

        There are more effective ways…

      • Vicki

        It is my belief that the King James version of the bible has a slight mistranslation of the 6th commandment. I can not believe that God would want me allow someone to commit murder upon me or another. It does however make perfect sense to me that I shall not murder. I.E. go kill someone. Also worth noting that I NEVER have the intent to kill an attacker. I accept that they may not survive but my entire intent is to stop their attack.

        http://www.biblestudy.org/question/what-does-thou-shall-not-kill-mean.html

      • Vicki

        Sidewinder says “I am with you in spirit on the militia idea. But not an armed Militia. Arms against the government are totally foolish.

        There are more effective ways…”

        The 3 boxes already mentioned. Just remember this country was founded by folk who tried and tried the “more effective ways”. And the thing to remember about the pen is that the pen works by affecting the hearts and minds of the people both in and out of government. So teach your children well (love that song :) ).

        Now I notice you commented about the National Guard. If you read US 10 section 311- etc you see that the militia is broken up into 2 groups

        (b) The classes of the militia are—
        (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
        (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

        I.E. Every able bodied male. I still find it fascinating that we girls have to be in the organized militia to be in the militia.

        And we need to stop putting an s at the end of militia. There is only 1. And that one is the whole of the people. We need to use our pens to poke at MSM every time they screw up with the word and try to put an s on it.

        Do this vigilantly and often and we will take back the label from those who would oppress us.

      • Sidewinder

        Yes, I agree Vicki, thats a good key point…Actions speak much louder than words. I live by that.

        Unfortunatly, those accused of terrorism find themselves in a different class of laws. The do not even need to be charged with the crime. They can be held as long as the government sees fit, and they don’t ever have the right to a speedy trial, by a jury of their peers.

        We all hate…dislike very much…those who blow up things, and commit mass murder. For them…they deserve the worst.

        But if they never get the chance to go to trial, how will we ever really know if they are in fact guilty?

        It makes no sense what so ever to imprison an innocent man.

        The classification “Enemy Combatents” refers to those “Enemys” caught on the battlefield, not wearing a uniform of any state’s army, and acting in a private capacity.

        The problem is….when the “Battlefield” happens to be the village you live in, and fighting breaks out, and you are taken prisoner by US Forces, what chance do you have to prove your innocence, OR have your guilt proven?

        Thats a huge problem with the rules Bush put into place. It shows little regard for human rights.

        An Afgan kid glaring at US soldiers who just invaded his country and village…..Terrorist? Perhaps his look just pissed someone off? We will never know, as he has no right to prove his guilt or innocence.

        Its wrong. It wouldn’t be God’s way.
        And I do, I put the blame on the man who signed it into law and gave the orders.

      • Sidewinder

        The methods must reflect the times and the situation.
        Those methods workd against the British, because we were able to match their firepower on the battlefield.
        Not so today. Thats just a fact.

        “Just remember this country was founded by folk who tried and tried the “more effective ways”. ”

        But…
        I enjoyed this discussion Vicky..you too Kate.
        I think it was worthwhile.

        Gotta go now…

      • Sidewinder

        I’m sorry…once last quick point.

        Martin Luther King, a man who I consider the last great American Patroit, also found himself outgunned, and outflanked.
        Againsts all odds, this man overcame violence, brutality, and public opinion against him.

        He did it by walking through the Valley of Death, with a smile on his face. He was arrested for commiting no crime, yet he prevailed.
        When you are nonviolent, its very hard for them to stop you, especially if you are right.
        He won…his adversaries lost.
        He carried no weapon but Truth.

      • Sidewinder

        I have to agree with you too. Defending innocent life is not only nobel, it is just. And it is our responsibility.

        Also, when using firearms, you should never shoot someone unless its a life or death situation. If it is….

        Then you shoot to kill.
        I do make that exception as well.

        Good point.

        Vicki says:
        May 14, 2010 at 3:44 pm
        It is my belief that the King James version of the bible has a slight mistranslation of the 6th commandment. I can not believe that God would want me allow someone to commit murder upon me or another. It does however make perfect sense to me that I shall not murder. I.E. go kill someone. Also worth noting that I NEVER have the intent to kill an attacker. I accept that they may not survive but my entire intent is to stop their attack.

        http://www.biblestudy.org/ques…..-mean.html

      • kate8

        Sidewinder, good post. Just for the record, I do not in any way advocate violence. I do, however, think it is a dangerous thing to have guns ONLY in the hands of government. Gun confiscation is always the last phase before tyrannical takeover.

        Also, liberalism is only for government staying out of issues of immorality and decadence. I say “immorality”, because they want to be free to subject us and our children to all manner of immoral behavior and language, even pornography, while doing all they can to muzzle those who advocate decency, parental authority and personal responsibility. They seek to remove all things Christian.

        I absolutely believe in “live and let live”, as long as things I find tasteless and offensive are not shoved in my face, or foisted upon our children. Liberalism has elevated decadence to preferencial status. “What was once called good will be called evil, and what was once called evil will be called good.”

        “Conspiracy Theory” is a term coined by the global elite crowd to ridicule those who ask too many questions. When ideas and people are ridiculed and marginalized, it is time to take notice. “You never know if a thing is true until it has been officially denied”.

        Actually, I enjoy your posts and pretty much agree with you about things. As far as NWO, this has been out in the open for a while now, spoken of by many world leaders such as Henry Kissinger, Gordon Brown, and many others. It is no longer a “conspiracy theory”, but something outright called for on many fronts.

        Yes, we do need to work to save our nation. I, too, hope we can. But we’ve got to be more prepared and determined than the opposition, rather than being forced into a defensive posture. We must get better trained and organized, and go on the offensive.

        Hope for the best, and be prepared for the worst.

      • kate8

        Sidewinder, the Commandment is “Thou shalt not murder”. Defense is not murder.

      • Walt G

        Yes, this country has a big army with staggering power and stunning weaponry. But when push comes to shove, I will be extremely surprised and disappointed if the majority of that military, sworn to protect the constitution against ALL enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC, did not turn against those domestic enemies in support of the nation’s people. This is not colonists fighting the British military. This is a case of sons and daughters in the military who are Oath Keepers fighting along side of their fathers, brothers, cousins, uncles, and friends, all of whom are fellow citizens.

      • timr

        Conservatives want to control your personal beliefs, and Liberals want to use Government, to control economics………….

        AT one point in our Country, we seemed to have a nice balance with our economic system. I know that most Businesses, especially Corporations, usually don’t like ANY regulation on Commerce, but we all know what happens when we have NONE…………although I agree that we can’t have too much…………My feeling on the economy, is that we are in a “correction” period right now, and sometimes, we need it………This Country has lived high-on-the-Hog for over 25 years, and it just got to the point where we became reckless with our Financial Industry……and ther is plenty of blame to go around………

        Too many times in this debate, we get caught up in ideology………and my feeling, is that Americans have never been overly ideological during our History, because we have been more flexible that our counter-parts, in Politics, in Economics, ets……

        And now we here words like Communism and Socialism, and Marxism, and it feels like the 1950′s again……….I just don’t believe that we, as a Country, should feel paranoid right now……..I say with all honesty, that I AM an Obama supporter, but I DID not agree with these bailouts…..I didn’t agree with them when Bush started with them, and I don’t agree with them now…………….

        I have had liberal AND Conservative friends of mine, who like me, did not agree with the Patriot Act……..And the reason why I didn’t, was because, I think we could have captured Osama Bin Laden, and gone after these terrorists,if we really wanted to, but like everything, Business interests usually outweigh National Security, and fighting Terrorism with our Brains as well as our Brawn,without sacrificing (at least, to the degree that we did) our personal Liberties and rights………..

        My point is, is that, we have lost in this Country, the ability to sit down, make tough choices, and work things out, wothout all of theis ideological “shouting”, and paranoia and name calling………I admit, that I was a part of that, and I don’t stand here absolving myself of any blame……….

        I can see why politics has turned off SO many people, and I myself have chose NOT to listen to any Cable news, because, to me, it is ALL junk……..NOT Journalism…………..We need to hold the power of Government in check, and we have hold the power in our Markets in check as well………………

        After all, there was a time, when the American worker AND the Companies they worked for…….ABOTH benefited, by good, quality, work and shared in the Profits………….

        But with sellouts to Manufacuring, and to the American worker in general, we have told our fellow citizens, that we MUST dumb-down OUR Economy, that we built up with sweat and guts, for all of these years………JUST so we can include the World……………and we’ve done this with Corporate sellouts, and Trade agreements like NAFTA (who a Democratic President and a Republican Congress signed off on).

        Our Aoto Industry never adjusted, to what was going on around them……..and, it seems……like we don’t MAKE anything anymore…………..

        We complain, again, ideologically, about China’s abuse of Human Rights, but we allow our Companies to buy cheap goods, at the expence of the average Chinese workers, who are treeated like slaves……treatment that we would NEVER allow in this Country………and at the expense of the American worker especially…..

        Jobs that went to Mexico during NAFTA, are now in China……….Does it help the American worker, when our Jobs and Plants go to Mexico so Companies can pay their workers $1.50 an hour???…..and then when those workers demand a little more, the Companies move the Jobs to China, where their workers will accept $1.00 an hour…………This is exactly what I mean by dumbing down the economy, and teeling our workers………too-bad-so-sad…………Go work at Wal-Mart………

        I was NEVER for Globalization, because, there was once a time, where different Countries were making different things, and they were all good at what THEY themselves produced……………

        Now, it’s ALL about cheap Labor…………

        I have NEVER believed that either Conservatives OR Liberals, are any more or less Patriotic than the other……..and it’s time, that these idiots in Washington STOP trying to “MUG” in front of the Camera, and start doing the people’s business………………….

        And, for the record, I simply ABORE the treatment by some, of our current President……..Just as I never like the name calling at Bush, regardless how I felt about his Presidency…………

        Let’s be Smart Americans again, and stop all this Macho anger, and get back to work……….

        Peace!!!!!!!!

      • Jana

        timr,
        Conservatives do NOT want to control your personal beliefs, as if we even could. However, we don’t want our rights in our beliefs stepped on, laughed at, mocked or riddiculed because they are not the Socialistic beliefs that you hold.
        We have been seeing our rights erroded daily and we are finally stepping up to the plate and saying NO MORE.
        I realize the liberals aren’t used to us standing up to their dictative ways, but we are no longer taking it.

      • Jana

        timr,
        I would also like to add that you have made some very valid points in your post. It’s late and I don’t have the time to read it all, but upon perusing it I certainly liked some of the things you said, and even agree with SOME of them.
        I especially agree with your statement:”My point is, is that, we have lost in this Country, the ability to sit down, make tough choices, and work things out, wothout all of theis ideological “shouting”, and paranoia and name calling………”
        You also stated that you think we are going through a time of correction, I just hope we can get through this corrective time in one piece.
        You are right, we desperatly need to sit down and work things out, and forget the name calling, but I don’t think Pres. Obama has that capability. He doesn’t seem to listen to the people any better than Bush did, and in my opinion, he acts like we are his subjects, not his employers, as does most of congress right now.
        I am open to suggestions on how to stop this road slide to destruction.

      • tim

        Vicki,

        Waco & Ruby Ridge were more like cults…..than militias………….
        One has to realize, that, although Militia’s were started as defensive groups, they have gotten out of control, because they can interpret on their own, what constitutes “defense”………..

        The militia in Michigan who were just captured, were going after Police, because they believed that the Police were an arm of the Government, who were on-their-way, to seize them and take their Liberties and freedoms an right to bear arms………

        It’s the obsessive paranoia of Government that fuels these groups………..Big Bad Government is coming to get them…………

      • Sidewinder

        I can not believe that God would want me allow someone to commit murder upon me or another.

        Once I think about it….I don’t know….
        I cannot see Jesus, blowing away some scumbag. Can’t see it.
        He let them kill him.

        Just something to think about…

      • kate8

        We have a right to defend ourselves, and an obligation to defend our families and others.

        God wills that none should perish. But we are subject to consequences.

      • Al Sieber

        Sidewinder, didn’t Jesus tell his followers to sell their garments and buy a sword? does tho shall kill mean even in self-defense? I don’t know if you’ve ever been shot at before or not, but you get a whole new attitude about staying alive. its happened to me a few times and I don’t hesitate to defend myself.

      • Save America Susie

        Although Jesus was non-violence usually, he did drive the money changers out of the Temple with a whip of cords for defiling the Temple. Then he said: “My Father’s House is a House of Prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves.” Remember that?

        And yes, There is section on the Gospels that talks about the disciples carrying a knife or a sword to go on a special journey. They did not usually do this. Don’t know the reference.

      • kate8

        SAS, Yeshua driving the moneychangers out of the temple is a perfect metaphor for what we have going on today. The Earth is the Lord’s and the moneychangers (banksters) are desecrating it. I believe He is poised to drive them out once again.

      • Save America Susie

        Kate8…Good Example! Because God is a GOD of JUSTICE, not just of LOVE. If there is no Justice in Love, it can’t be real love. Often God must meet out Justice to protect the Innocents. How would it be, after all, if we let the criminals go “Scott Free” after they committed rape or murder? Or never disciplined our children to teach them right from wrong. That there needs to be Consequences to your actions. We would just be perpetuating more deaths of innocent people. (I am thinking of the Amber & Chelsea murders so fresh on or minds here in California–heartbreaking!) There must be a balance. So if we are too lenient, we are actually being “Enablers” to the criminals. Much like that murderer’s mother (which it came out in the trial). We must take a stand. There ARE Consequences for actions.

      • kate8

        SAS, you are exactly right. Justice is absolutely necessary, and God’s Justice is absolutely just. And Scripture promises God’s Justice to His people.

        It’s the law of kharma, reaping what we sow. God created a universe governed by order, and its nature is to always rebalance. It must be so, or it would not endure.

        Many people today reject the Commandments because they see them as limiting their desire to live as they please. What they are is a set of principles that allow us to live with MORE freedom, as we always know the right choice to make in order for our lives to go well. When we violate them, there are consequences brought to bear on us as a natural result of being out of harmony with Life.

        God bless.

      • Jana

        Kate8, Vicki, and Sidewinder,

        On the topic of killing someone,The Commandment is for sure Thou shalt not kill, but if you will go to your concordance it means do no murder. That is to preplan or lie in wait with willful intent to do harm unto death. If someone comes in to your home they are the ones having the willfull intent to do harm, you would be defending yourself, and in no way if this person or people would die would it be considered murder in God’s sight.
        Remember in the Old Testament, God even called men to go to war with each other.
        At one time God even told the Israelites Joshua at Jericho to go in and kill every man, every woman and even every child. He even commanded them to kill all of their livestock.
        People often get this commandment mixed up and think if they kill someone in war then they have murdered. this is not so. In Deuteronomy God even gives us certain things that if committed require the death penalty. Fighting and killing while in battle is not considered murder.
        Often times the Bible has been transliterated instead of being translated, however if we do go by the Standard King James Version, we have tools to look up these words.
        I do not advocate violence either, but feel we cannot back down in fear from anyone using violence against us.

        By the way, I have very much enjoyed reading your exchanges of ideas.

      • Save America Susie

        Kate8 & several others, on this subject of murder vs killing for a defense of innocents–Interesting exchange! I also think Jesus did not fight because “His Kingdom was not of this world” (it was a spiritual Kingdom), as well as the fact He was ready to lay down His life for our sins. What would be the point of postponing that if the the “fullness of time” had come? As the song says: “He could have called 10,000 Angels to destroy the world and set Him free. But He died alone, for you & me.” He was not an ordinary man. So He had different capabilities. He was able to escape from the crowd a few times when they sought to Kill Him for claiming to be God. It was supernatural in nature.

      • Jana

        Save America Susie,
        I don’t think there is a defense for murdering an innocent person. I do think there might be a defense for the killing of an innocent person in cases such as an accident, as it was not done on purpose. The rest is up to God to judge. Thank goodness.

      • Save America Susie

        Jana, I wanted to CLARIFY, (just in case anyone ever reads this post again later), what I meant by “killing for defense of the innocents” means “defending the innocents”–similar to self-defense. If someone were trying to murder an innocent person (like maybe your next door neighbor has a burglar who breaks in, and you rush next door and intervene) and you stepped in to save your nieghbor, and the murderer was killed by you in the process. That is what I mean by “defense of the innocents”.

      • Patrick

        I would just like to say that the by the tenth Amendment the state of Arizona has the right to make the laws for its own; consequently, the rights of the sovern people of the this state trump those of the state according to the ninth Amendment. This was not given to the people to decide for ourselves, only poloticians, who aragetly believe that they know what is best or better for because they do not live my live yet they are smarter. Right!!! sounds familiar right. History repeats itself, so when do we start rounding up latinos and put them in GETTOOs like the Germans did to the Jews!!! Like Germany ,

      • Jana

        Patrick,
        No one wants to round up anyone and put them in ghetto’s. I am for legal immigration, not Illegal immigration. If people would stop hiring them and the government would stop giving them freebies, then they would self deport. Meanwhile Arizona was forced to take this action for self preservation.
        GOOD FOR ARIZONA.

      • tim

        Kate8….These Militia’s are NOT government plants………There has always been these Militias………..I would agree with you, though, that many of these so-called border militas are different than those hiding in the Woods in Michigan and forming a compound………….

        You might be surprised, that I supported, building an electrical fence…………..

      • Vicki

        An unarmed militia is a bunch of slaves. Now who is the militia? let me quote.

        “The militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, … all men capable of bearing arms;…”
        — “Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic”, 1788 (either Richard Henry Lee or Melancton Smith).
        ——————————————–

        “When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually…

        I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor…”

        George Mason, Virginia Constitution Convention

        ———————–
        “Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American…[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”

        Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
        ———————–

        “Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.”

        Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts
        ————————-

        http://www.constitution.org/mil/cs_milit.htm

        Even the US Code identifies the militia 10 U.S.C. § 311 says
        “The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard”

        So that would be most of the male population and we females that join the National Guard. (I think that is silly cause we can fight just fine without being members of the NG :) )

        Note that the founders made no silly limits based on age. Just on race, sex and ability to handle weapons. We have since gotten a little smarter and removed the “race” element and if you properly translate “people” it would remove the sex element. But then again guys have always been over protective. Not their fault. It is hardwired into their biology. :)

      • kate8

        Thank you, Vicki. You presented the case well.

      • Vicki

        You’re welcome :)

    • Al Sieber

      The majority of the blacks I know are against illegal aliens, and they’re called racist. our media lies to us.

      • Robert Wayne

        Yes, but blacks are easily swayed by left wing troublemakers like Sharpton, Jackson and their hero Obama. And it’s obvious that all three are on the side of illegal mexican invaders and against Americans. Sharpton, Jackson, Obama and other black troublemakers start yapping in favor of the illegal mexican invaders and you can bet your bottom dollar that the ordinary blacks in this country will all be in favor of the destruction of this country at the hands of the illegal invaders too.

      • timr

        Robert…just like Whites are swayed by Rush Limbaugh and Michelle Malkin……………Some people say that blacks were unduely swayed by Martin Luther King Jr and Malcolm X…………….I wonder what those two were fighting for???? (or do you need to be reminded?)………..I suggest to you, to not do what many Liberals do, and that is, claim to know what’s best for Black people…………

        Let’s face it, both the Dems and the Republicans have catered to the Latino vote by caving in on Real immigration reform………..and as much as I don’t like the recently passed bill in Arizona……..maybe it will get Congress to finally do something………..

      • JLC

        Al, whether we like it or not, illegal immigration IS a racist issue. The name “La Raza” means “The Race.” And the name that they use for us is “Gringo.” which means. literally, “Foreigner.” Foreigner, mind you, in our own country. Black Americans, quite rightly, object to the use of the “N” word. I, for one, equally as rightly, object to use of the “G” word, especially by one who is not a citizen of my country.

        There is, in Mexico, an organization known as “La Reconquísta” whose professed objective is the “re-absorption” into Mexico of the territories ceded to the U.S. by the treaty of Guadeloupe-Hidalgo (1848); this to be accomplished by “re-population.” Is there a possible connection here with the current illegal immigration problem?

        The territories referred to are not just a strip along the present U.S-Mexican border. They include the entire states of Texas, Mew Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah, and Colorado, as well as the Oklahoma Pandle, and the southwest corners of both Kansas and Wyoming. Quite a chunk of ground.

      • Al Sieber

        JKC thanks, I’m aware of what you’re talking. Aztlan, Mecha are other racist mexican groups also. it’s just a lot of people don’t know it. I think the “Brown Berets” are the worse, you can see the hatred in their eyes, and I hate being called “GRINGO”. I think this is part of the plan for the North American Union to divide us. like Ancient Rome. over extend our military, debase our currency, and flood us with foreigners.

      • http://minnesota MarieElise

        thank you JLC for reminding that fact to the people .it is true and everyone should know this and start fighting it seriously and wake up before it is too late .

      • timr

        No connection, there JLC……….just paranoia

      • Joe W.

        The blacks are realizing through their pockets what the illegal aliens are doing to them. Because of low skilled, low paying jobs, employers are opting to hire illegals who’ll work for even lower pay. This is not only affecting adult African/Americans but the teenagers too with even higher un-employment rates.

    • Radio UpNorth

      Of course, it isn’t just the Dimocrits playing politics with this. The Repugtards are right there with them.

      As much as I debate Wood on issues, I totally agree with him on this. And to call any of us racists is race-baiting is the lowest form or racism. It is a cheap and stupid reply to requiring everyone, across the board, to obey the laws of this country, ALL OF THEM!! I am not going to accept being a 2nd class citizen in my own country obeying the laws while others are so free to break them!

      We’ve got way too many Cathlicers, neo-protestant wimpy fanatics and others who don’t have the fog-free abiity to realize the economic and social costs of these ILLEGAL immigrants, whether they come from Mexico, South America or some other country. Consider these fanatics from Pakistan whose supporters of the Time Square bomber supposedly came from, illegally staying here beyond their legal visa time period.

      These naive nabobs should try, try very hard, to understand that if the United States collapses because of all of these sippy cupped views, such as being outraged that High-Schoolers wear shirts with the American flag at a school with heavy Hispanic students on Cinqu Du Mai, Mexican independence day, and yet fall silent when Mexican flags and Hispanic parades are held on July 4th, then the good old U.S. won’t be able to stand without collapse and ending their naive world view existence.

      The militia may have a role here. With this invasion, there is a real threat to U.S. Independence. This is just like Texas during the very early 1800′s, when white settlers were invited to settle Texas by the Mexican government, then later tried to quell a rebellion by these settlers due to the 2nd class citizenship treatment of these settlers that led to Texas independence.

      If the U.S. Government, due to incompetence and lack of courage of our Congress to support and strengthen law enforcement at the southern border, both against illegal immigration and terrorists, then the armed militias should be encouraged and even provided with State and Federal funds to stop this invasion in it’s tracks.

      • kate8

        Radio, I think this is about the first time I agree with you. Aren’t you usually in the lib camp?

        Way to go.

      • Steve

        Ditto Kate, I never thought Radio would agree with any conservative viewpoint.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Steve,
        careful, a leopard doesn’t usually change it’s spots!!! Be ever watchful of libs that try to incite you to violence so that Obummer can declare martial law!!! We don’t need that!

      • Steve

        You’re correct about a leopard and their spots Joe. I’m not believing that Radio will be in our camp anytime soon, but I don’t read his post as advocating violence. He mentions federal or state funding of the militias on the border which would infer that the militias would be state sponsored and legal.

    • Ruth Hart

      The American citizens have NO RIGHTs /to complain of the violence,the drugs,the abuse of OUR constitution and Laws.I have several neices & nephews that are waiting for their Documents to come here LEGALY and they have a great respect and love of all we have to offer here.
      These Illegals have no respect or honor of the USA and are NOT here to “feed the dear ones at home” they come to pillage ,plunder and cause as much DESTRUCTION to our cities as they can.It’s no longer the mom or dad that needs to help family “back there” its drug traffickers,murderers,child molesters and just plain NASTY people.
      GOD BLESS ARIZONA,I will stand with them any time !!

    • patricia

      Unfortunately, this is true. And the Arizona vote is keeping him from getting it…hence the fireworks!!
      Kudos to Governor Jan Brewer for having a real backbone. She did whatshe HAD too…AWESOME!!!!!

    • Gary

      A new Federal Law should be written by Congress, enacted by Congress and signed by a REAL, GENUINE, and Openly and Publicly Factually Proven Natural Native Born Legitimized U.S. President, that should require that any U.S. American Citizen who is arrested on suspicion of knowingly illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing any illegal alien for any form of illegal employment anywhere and at any time, should be prosecuted in a U.S. Federal Court, and if found guilty and convicted of knowingly illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing any illegal alien or illegal aliens for any form of illegal employment anywhere and at any time, should immediately have their U.S. American Citizenship officially abolished, rescinded, cancelled, nulled, negated, revoked, etc., etc. permanently and forever and should be required to pay a substantial fine for each individual illegal alien that they knowingly illegally hired and that they knowingly illegally employed and the convicted U.S. Federal Felon non-citizen should also immediately serve a required and mandatory long term incarceration prison sentence in a maximum security U.S. Federal Prison doing hard labor, perhaps on Guam Island or on Pitcairn Island in the Pacific Ocean or on Diego Garcia Island in the Indian Ocean or on some other God forsaken U.S. island territory, for several years with absolutely NO early release and with absolutely NO parole and with absolutely NO pardon or later aquittal(unless proven 100% completely innocent of all charges and 100% exonerated as a result of new and credible, legitimate and factually verifiable evidence discovered and presented later) and after completing their required mandatory prison incarceration sentence, the convicted U.S. Federal Felon non-citizen is immediately banished and deported from the United States permanently and forever to any other nation or country on the planet who will, after prior international negotiations, accept the convicted U.S. Federal Felon non-citizen even to the continent of Antarctica as a last resort. The convicted U.S. Federal Felon non-citizen will NEVER be allowed and will NEVER be permitted to set foot on any U.S. soil anywhere at any time and will NEVER be allowed and will NEVER be permitted in any U.S. coastal waters anywhere at any time. Knowingly illegally hiring and illegally employing any illegal aliens for any illegal employment at any time should be a U.S. Federal Felony Crime. Perhaps a required mandatory prison incarceration sentence to serve a minimum of a one year prison sentence for each Federal Felony Crime of knowingly illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing each individual illegal alien who was knowingly illegally hired and employed by that U.S. American Citizen, perhaps 50 years for knowingly illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing 50 illegal aliens, 100 years for illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing 100 illegal aliens, 500 years for knowingly illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing 500 illegal aliens, 1,000 years for knowingly illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing 1,000 illegal aliens, 5,000 years for knowingly illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing 5,000 illegal aliens, 10,000 years for knowingly illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing 10,000 illegal aliens anywhere and at any time and for any length of time or any duration of time and so on and so on. A U.S. Federal Law like this would definitely have all small, medium and large U.S. American Citizen private business owners and operators and all CEO’s, Company and Corporate Presidents, Company and Corporate Chairmen and Company and Corporate Chairwomen and all other Company and Corporate Executive Officers of all small, medium and large companies and corporations pleading, begging and screaming for a required mandatory National U.S. Federal E-Verify Legal Employment Law to be enacted and to be very strictly enforced and completely enforced everywhere and at all times. The risk of immediately and PERMANENTLY losing your U.S. American Citizenship forever which will be the first mandatory requirement of formal U.S. Federal Punishment for comitting and being found guilty of and being convicted of knowingly hiring and knowingly employing any illegal aliens for any form of illegal employment anywhere and at any time for any length of time and for any duration of time, a required mandatory substantial fine that will be a mandatory requirement, the required mandatory incarceration in a U.S. Federal maximum security prison doing hard labor, and after serving the required mandatory incareration prison sentence, the mandatory requirement of being immediately banished and immediately deported from the Constitutional Republic Of The United States Of America permanently and forever with absolutely NO permission ever being granted to return to the United States for any reason at any time is just simply too terrifying to not have a required mandatory E-Verify Legal Employment Law STRICTLY ENFORCED AND COMPLETELY ENFOCRED EVERYWHERE AND AT ALL TIMES.

      • Gary

        A brief addendum to be added to my own previous post. Unfortunately, the politically incorrect and extremely very traditional conservative ultra pro-Constitutional Congress will need to be voted into office before there is any real chance and good opportunities to write some Constitutional Laws that have real sharp teeth and a bite that will be more stubborn and powerful than a bulldog or bull terrier knawing on a bone. Actually the hopefully future anti-illegal alien illegal employment Law should be so terrifying and sublime that even some stupid bozo and unpatriotic greedy cheating U.S. American citizens who knowingly illegally hires and who knowingly illegally employs 3 Mexican Foreign National ILLEGAL ALIENS at the local Homeboy Depot Parking Lot, excuse me, I meant to say the local Home Depot Parking Lot Slave Auction Market, to buy a Mexican illegal alien slave for a day labor, where Mexican Foreign National ILLEGAL ALIENS are deliberately selling their own bodies to perform back breaking slave labor for an illegal under the table no reported taxes cash only token salary of a few dollars like throwing chicken feed at a few chickens just to keep them alive for future consumption, should result in the conviction of a U.S. Federal Felony Crime and the required mandatory sentence of serving a minimum of no less than 3 years incarcerated in a maximum security U.S. Federal Prison doing hard labor for knowingly illegally hiring and knowingly illegally employing those 3 Mexican Foreign National illegal aliens for even only one solitary hour of home repairs or out door yard work. In other words, if you knowingly illegally hire and knowingly illegally employ 3 illegal aliens for only one or two hours, you are sentenced to a minimum of 3 years in prison, and 5 years in prison for knowingly illegally hiring and employing 5 illegal aliens, 9 years in prison for knowingly illegally hiring and employing 9 illegal aliens, 17 years in prison for knowingly illegally hiring and employing 17 illegal aliens, 24 years in prison for knowingly illegally hiring and employing 24 illegal aliens, 32 years in prison for knowingly illegally hiring and employing 32 illegal aliens, 74 years in prison for knowingly illegally hiring and employing 74 illegal aliens, and so on and so on. God help you if you are stupid enough to knowingly illegally hire and illegally employ 472 illegal aliens because it will be a mandatory requirement that you will serve the absolute minimum of no less than 472 years in a maximum security U.S. Federal Prison doing hard labor. That seems only fair. A new Federal Law should have a mandatory requirement that each convicted Federal Felon non-citizen should serve exactly one year for knowingly illegally hiring and illegally employing each individual illegal alien. A required mandatory prison sentence of one year for each illegal alien who was illegally hired and illegally employed. This is a very fair Law and it is not rocket science. Simple, Fair, Just and to the point. And of course you lose your U.S. American Citizenship permanently and forever, you pay a fine for each illegal alien who was knowingly illegally hired and employed and of course, you will be immediately deported and banished from the after serving your required mandatory prison sentence

    • Carl Hatton

      Mr. Clyde,
      1) Publish names of anyone that boycott AZ or any connection to AZ so we can boycott them.
      2) Tell us how we can stop Obummer numics. We always hear that we need to stop him, and we call/fax our local congressmen, but we all need a plan of action to stop this craziness.
      3) Let’s start a list of businesses that hire illegals so we can boycott them. If I knew that a certain company were hiring illegals, I would let them know that I would not do business with them. If enough of us did that, it might make a difference.
      4) We have to find the most conservative and electable people we can and get them elected, locally all the way to the Presidency. And we have to continue to do that forever.
      5) I support those few that are trying to make a difference. We need to continue to let them know that we are behind them.
      6) We need to either send massive support to the border or have the AZ local sheriff deputize thousands of volunteers to patrol the border with a license to shoot first and ask questions later. That would get national attention.

      • Sheila

        So far, I know that the cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco have voted to boycott Arizona. I am blown away. WHO ARE THEY SPEAKING FOR? Certainly not those of us in CA paying state taxes, now at 10%, for our bankrupted state, which would be in the BLACK if we weren’t paying through the nose for all the illegals here, who have put us in the RED for over a decade now. I am disgusted with Los Angeles for voting for this, and I live here.

      • Jana

        Sheila,
        So is the City Council in Austin, TX. This is so sickening. They need to keep thier nose out of it unless they have lived it!

    • Mooneyman

      i agree with JeffH about applauding Gov Brewer’s actions regarding immigration.

      The answers to the immigration problem already has Federal laws passed to address them.

      1. Complete building the border fence once and forall.

      2. Go after employers who hire “illegals”. Fine these companies
      and/or close them down if they don’t comply.

      3. Deport those who don’t possess the proper green cards. (Per the
      Federal law.)

      4. Change the Federal law that allows illegal females to drop their
      infants on U.S. soil and claim citenship. (Germany finally did
      this in the 60′s or 70′s. Mothers’s baby father’s maybe.)

      5. Allow all companies to use the “E-Verify” computer checks on all
      employees to determine if they are legal citizens.

      And above all, please vote this November and help to remove some of the Progressive Liberals from Congress.

    • Mooneyman

      i agree with JeffH about applauding Gov Brewer’s actions regarding immigration. She had no choice since the Bush/obama Feds have done nothing too date.

      The answers to the immigration problem already has Federal laws passed to address them.

      1. Complete building the border fence once and for all.

      2. Go after employers who hire “illegals”. Fine these companies
      and/or close them down if they don’t comply.

      3. Deport those who don’t possess the proper green cards. (Per the
      Federal law.)

      4. Change the Federal law that allows illegal females to drop their
      infants on U.S. soil and claim citizenship. (Germany finally did
      this in the 60′s or 70′s. Mothers’s baby father’s maybe.)

      5. Allow all companies to use the “E-Verify” computer checks on all
      employees to determine if they are legal citizens.

      And above all, please vote this November and help to remove some of the Progressive Liberals from Congress.

      Also, has anyone viewed the YouTube video on a movie called “Machete”? This is scary. The film shows the mexicans going after U.S. citizens. It’s a progapanda film that equates what Nazi Germany did against the jews in WWII. Please view this. The anarchists and Progressive Liberals are behind this. There is even a claim that Texas State funds are being used to fund this film.

    • Hugh Jordin

      You all may find this interesting:

      New Immigration Laws: Read to the bottom or you will miss the message…

      1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
      * * * * * * * *
      2. All ballots will be in this nation’s language.
      * * * * * * * *
      3.. All government business will be conducted in our language.
      * * * * * * * *
      4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
      * * * * * * * *
      5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office
      * * * * * * * *
      6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
      * * * * * * * *
      7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at
      least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
      * * * * * * * *
      8. If foreigners come here and buy land… options will be restricted.
      Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens
      naturally born into this country.
      * * * * * * * *
      9. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or
      his policies. These will lead to deportation.
      * * * * * * * *
      10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted
      &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All
      assets will be taken from you.
      * * * * * * * * *
      Too strict ?
      The above laws are current immigration laws of MEXICO !

      • Jana

        Hugh J
        And should be practiced this here at home too.

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