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Democrats And The Politics Of Envy

April 19, 2010 by  

Democrats And The Politics Of Envy

(Part one of a two-part series)

Democrats have long practiced the politics of envy. They preach that their policies help the working man (or woman) whereas the Republicans are the party of the rich.

They like to try and pit the poor against the rich. They promote the notion that if someone earns more than whatever Democrats consider a “living wage” (a despicable term) then that person is somehow evil. And many Americans have fallen for it.

Well, truth be told, both parties have done much more to benefit the rich than the poor. Some of the reasons for that are outlined here.

But how Democrats have managed to maintain the myth that their policies are beneficial to Average Working-class Joe (or Jane) is one of the great mysteries of all time—ranking up there with quasars and how Joe Besser ever became one of the Three Stooges. For Democrat big-government policies have been devastating to the “working” man.

Consider the actions of the 28th President of the United States, Woodrow Wilson. With the help of a Democrat-controlled Congress, Wilson established the Federal Reserve in 1913 and instituted an income tax which necessitated the establishment of the Bureau of Internal Revenue—the precursor to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).

These agencies began the stealth system of “legal” theft from the American people and put us on a fiat paper money dollar system. This means that all who earn dollars and save dollars have depreciating currency with depreciating assets.

This system hurts the poor more than it does the rich. How? As the Federal Reserve prints more and more money, the currency depreciates. Depreciating currency (inflation of prices) slowly reduces the value of their savings and their standard of living. The poor—and the middle class—who often find themselves living hand-to-mouth see a rise in the prices of the things they buy. Since a greater portion of their wealth is spent on living expenses, inflation affects the poor and middle class far more than the rich.

The purpose of fiat paper money is a tax on the population which doesn’t have to be collected or enforced. The state simply has to inflate the currency by printing more paper money. The people are slow to realize the sinister purpose of inflating the currency.

Inflation or depreciation of the currency is a monetary plague that attacks the spenders and the savers. Your wealth is taken without a gun to your head.

Writing in his book, End the Fed, Ron Paul quotes from data from the Federal Reserve of St. Louis that shows how money has depreciated:

“One only needs to reflect on the dramatic decline in the value of the dollar that has taken place since the Fed was established in 1913. The goods and services you could buy for $1.00 in 1913 now cost nearly $21.00. Another way to look at this is from the perspective of the purchasing power of the dollar itself. It has fallen to less than $0.05 of its 1913 value. We might say that the government and its banking cartel have together stolen $0.95 of every dollar as they have pursued a relentlessly inflationary policy.”

That’s the tax that doesn’t have to be collected. The one that is collected is just as insidious.

According to U.S. Census data, the average annual income in 1915 was $687. That year—as in 1913 when the income tax was enacted—there were just seven income tax brackets. The marginal tax rate was 1 percent for people making up to $20,000. The highest rate was 7 percent on income above $500,000.

In 2008, according to Leslie Carbone in her book, Slaying Leviathan, The Moral Case for Tax Reform, a married couple filing jointly paid 10 percent on the first $16,050 of their taxable income, 15 percent on the remainder up to $65,100, 25 percent on the remainder up to $131,450, 28 percent on the remainder up to $200,300, 33 percent on the remainder up to $357,700, and 35 percent on the rest.

That means that if you work and you are one of the 53 percent of Americans who actually pay income taxes, you spend somewhere between one to three hours each day working to pay your tax burden.

The Great Depression And The New Deal
The Roaring ‘20s were arguably the most prosperous decade in American history, writes Robert P. Murphy, Ph.D., in his book, The Politically Incorrect Guide™ to The Great Depression and The New Deal. It wasn’t just that people grew richer. Their lives changed with the growth in the automobile and the spread of electricity and invention of gadgets and appliances that ran off it.

Meanwhile, the Fed was flooding the credit markets with cheap money which led to a speculative bubble that burst in 1929, according to Murphy. On Oct. 28, 1929, the stock market lost almost 13 percent of its value. The next day saw a drop of almost 12 percent. The Great Depression was on.

Unemployment soared, surpassing 28 percent in March 1933. Annual production dropped 27 percent. Republican President Herbert Hoover’s policies didn’t help. Murphy writes:

“The shocking unemployment rates of the Hoover years were a direct, if unintended consequence of his high-wage policy. Hoover urged businesses to maintain wage rates, even though profits were plummeting and prices in general were dropping. With firms desperately trying to cut costs to stay afloat during the Depression, Hoover insisted that the relative price of labor increase. It is no wonder then that this period witnessed the sharpest pullback in demand for workers in American history. FDR continued these policies.” [Emphasis in original text]

Democrat Franklin Delano Roosevelt, like Hoover before him, thought the Depression was caused by underconsumption, according to Murphy. So he sought to raise wage rates (rather than put a floor under them) and he pushed industrial and labor policies through Congress that limited competition and raised labor bargaining power.

Murphy writes:

“One of these policies was the National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA) (1933-35). This act created the National Recovery Administration (NRA), which provided a vehicle for the major players in each industry to create a so-called ‘Code of Fair Competition.’ In reality, these codes were anti-competitive rules that forbade industries from lowering prices. In short, the NRA worked by fostering giant cartels, which made products artificially expensive and punished small businesses trying to compete against big businesses. As a condition for being allowed to form such a cartel, Roosevelt insisted that each participating ‘industry [raise] wages and [accept] collective bargaining with an independent union.’ By 1934, over 500 industries had adopted such codes, covering almost 80 percent of private, nonfarm employment. With these ‘voluntary’ codes in place, big producers could raise prices without fear of losing market share, because the federal government itself would punish any ‘unpatriotic’ upstarts who dared try to undersell large firms.” [Emphasis in original text]

With small businesses unable to set their own prices lower, not only were they unable to compete with larger business, but poor and middle-class citizens were unable to shop around for a good price or purchase as much as they needed.

In 1935 the Supreme Court threw out the NIRA as unconstitutional so Roosevelt used the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) to achieve his goals, according to Murphy. The NLRA granted unions incredible bargaining power by forcing businesses to accept collective bargaining. As a result, union membership more than doubled and the number of “strike days” doubled in one year—from 14 million in 1936 to 28 million in 1937. This surge in union strength—and the high wages it brought—was an important factor in the persistently high unemployment rates of the 1930s. In other words, FDR’s pro-union policies helped prevent people from finding jobs.

Other “highlights” of FDR’s policies that hurt the poor and middle class*:

  • The four-day banking holiday closed all banks—even those that were sound—denying depositors access to their own money. It was mostly small regional banks that failed and they did so mostly because of government intervention in the banking system. The “solution” did not correct the fundamental problems with the banks, but instead took away bank clients’ incentives to monitor bank solvency by saddling taxpayers with losses.
  • The executive order requiring American citizens to surrender all gold certificates and gold, except for rare gold coins, in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes was outright theft. The government compounded the problem when it tied the dollar back to gold—changing the exchange rate from $20.67 per ounce to $35 per ounce (a 40 percent depreciation).
  • Under government coercion, sellers destroyed food in order to raise prices (as depicted in scenes from John Steinbeck’s Grapes of Wrath). While hundreds of thousands of poor and unemployed people went hungry, farmers were plowing their crops under, or leaving them to rot in the field, and slaughtering livestock to comply with the Agriculture Adjustment Act. “[While Agriculture Secretary Henry A.] Wallace was paying out hundreds of millions to kill hogs, burn oats, plow under cotton, the Department of Agriculture issued a bulletin telling the nation that the great problems of our time was our failure to produce enough food.”
  • The Works Process Administration (WPA) hampered the economic recovery. By giving the unemployed an option that paid well enough, the WPA siphoned workers away from truly productive tasks that would have restored the economy to a long-run sustainable condition. In other words, the government paid them not to find a job.

There are many New Deal programs that still exist to this day, though few of them really help the “working man.” One of the worst is Social Security. In Slaying Leviathan, Carbone writes:

“Former Social Security Commissioner Stanford Ross criticized the founders of Social Security for generating public support by advancing the fictitious belief that a worker ‘pays for’ benefits with ‘contributions’ rather than taxes, and has an ‘earned right’ to particular benefits. Ross advised Americans to reject the ‘myth’ that Social Security is a pension plan and accept it as a tax on workers to provide for the ‘vulnerable in our society’.

“Senator Patrick Moynihan went further, calling Social Security taxes ‘outright thievery’ from young working people.”

All in all, Democrat policies during the first half of the 20th Century did much more to hurt the working poor or middle class than to help. This is not to absolve Republicans of responsibility. They were complicit in that they didn’t do enough to try and stop the practices before they were implemented, nor have they done much to try and repeal them. Republicans like big government as much as the Democrats.

The fallacy is that either party, the Democrats in particular, have been able to position themselves as the party of the “working” man.

* From The Politically Incorrect Guide™ to The Great Depression and the New Deal, by Robert P. Murphy, Ph.D.

(Editor’s Note: This is the first of a two-part series on Democrat big government policies and how they hurt the people they are supposed to help. Next week will focus on Lyndon Baines Johnson’s Great Society and the policies of Barack Hussein Obama, including Obamacare and the coming value-added tax.)

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • http://maskedwriter.com al

    Yes, it seems that what Obama is doing now is similar to some of the things FDR did. When will the American people learn that only having the power to vote between two corrupt politicians at a time is not freedom at all. In California they are trying to pass a law where citizens actually vote and approve a specific type of spending law. Why not make it so that now Americans can actually vote their approval or disapproval of all new laws/taxes. As I said, right now we only have the power to vote in another corrupt politician to rob us more. Let’s take away the lawmaker’s power to impose new laws/taxes and give it back to the people.

    • DixieConnie

      Very good Al. I totally agree with you. Power to the people.

  • kate8

    The enemy’s primary tactic is infiltration – conquer from within. The fascist elites first took over the democrat party and have been seeping into the republican party for decades. They’ve infiltrated our institutions (churches, Scouts, charities, EDUCATION, etc.).
    Nothing is sacred nor free from their influence.

    We really need to be vigilant about those running for office. They need to be scrutinized carefully (and SHOW us their birth certificates! And NO sealed records malarky). If we make it until Nov.
    without some false flag event, it is critical that we do this right.
    I don’t think we have any more chances, if, indeed, it is not already too late.

    • JeffH

      kate8, well said and spot on s most of your comments are.
      Thanks once more.

  • eddie47d

    James Graham; You left out the fact that no American Indian names are on the Declaration,U.S. Constition,Bill of rights,Ect. Many Indians welcomed us and ended up with nothing so tell me again who is an American.

    • Jeep

      Hey! What about the Japanese? Or, the Chinese? Were there any Polynesians? Darn…we keep forgetting some group, or another…

      • Debo

        Jeep.
        The only real Americans are the ones that greeted the Europeans when they landed. The Chinese and the Japanese haven’t staked any claims, and the Polynesians were long after when they were annexed. We all came from somewhere else so lets all enjoy this great spot on this earth, and stop the zenophobic bs. It is selfish and unbecoming of a generous nation.

      • Jeep

        Debo, you need to get a life and take some classes on sarcasm.

  • Political Junkie

    After reading the comments above, it seems that no one got the point of the article. Doesn’t anyone see the similarities that FDR did in the 30′s to what Obama and the RATs in Congress are doing today?

    As for voting them all out. First of all, it won’t happen. There are too many people in this country that don’t pay taxes and, as a result, have no vested interest in what handouts cost since they don’t pay for them. In fact, too many of them are receiving those handouts. A couple of contributors did point this out. I’d like to see a Constitutional Amendment passed that says if you don’t pay taxes, you don’t vote.

    What people should do is pay attention to how your Representative and Senators are voting on the issues. If you disagree with them, vote them out. Most RATs are working in lock step to take over this country, they need to go. Some Republicans are almost as bad, e.g. Lindsey Graham, a real RINO. We have to be careful that we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    • Airangel

      I agree, you should have to pay taxes in order to vote – period!

      • denniso

        You guys are way off base and repeating the great Repub lie that 1/2 the country doesn’t pay taxes…
        ALMOST EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY PAYS TAXES! Undocumented immigrants,the poorest of the poor and everyone else. Just because some don’t pay fed or state taxes doesn’t mean they don’t pay. Everyone who buys things in most states pays a hefty and regressive sales tax. Everyone who drives pays a gasoline tax and licensing tax for the car. Anyone who owns a home,even a shack,pays property tax. All workers above a bare minimum pay social security and medicare tax.

        So, quit repeating the lie…

      • Airangel

        why are you getting all riled up? if they work and pay taxes then they vote..it’s simple

      • Palin12

        Your “undocumented immigrants” don’t pay one-tenth what I paid to the IRS.

      • denniso

        And you don’t pay a tenth of what Bill Gates does…so what? Does that mean that you should pay more?

      • Palin12

        No, it means the illegals should go home!

      • http://GOGGLE vaksal

        AIRANGEL THATS A REALLY UNREALISTIC OUTLOOK,WHY? BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE ME THAT WORKED OVER 45yrs OF OUR LIFES PAYING TAXES INTO THIS SYSTEM,AND ARE NO LONGER WORKING,WOULD NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE? WHERE WOULD IT END,OH IF YOU DIDNT GO TO COLLEGE YOU CANT VOTE. PLEASE JUST SAY IT AS IT SHOULD BE SAID,IF YOU ARE IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEAGLY ,YOU CANT VOTE,IF YOU ARE A CONVICTED DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN PUBLIC SERVANT,A FREE TICKET TO SIBERIA WHERE VOTING DOESNT MATTER YOU CANT vote.

      • ted crawford

        You bring up a valid point! This could easily become another unintended consequence! I t seems to point out that any legislation should be well thought out, openly discussed, and very carefully worded! Unlike the healthcare bill!
        I do believe the idea of paying taxes to vote has merit. We must, however, address this issue, and probably more, before we come up with some preposed legislation to address it.

  • Rick Bowen

    Thruout my life I have supported both democrats and republicans, only to be disappointed by both parties. I have been rallying for tax reform since the sixties. Every time we get some kind a reform the taxation gets worse. I own a small business and it cost me $7000. a year to conform to all the tax law requirements. THATs OBSCENE! Not to mention the required Insurances that would put you out of business in a heartbeat when you can’t pay up. I am with the tea party movement throw all the bums out and start over. Obama and all his cronies must go if we are to save our republic.

  • Airangel

    Seriously, we need to research and vote “best person” for the job in 2010, I don’t care their title….even the National Tea Party movement (not just Idaho Tea Party) chose congressman Walt Minnick who is a Democrat in Idaho. They chose him based on his history and values as a strong candidate to run and high in their favor…you need to know what each running party stands for and vote accordingly…a good example of “too much government” is Austria…a total Socialistic country taking 94% of paychecks. People live off of 6%, just enough to sleep, eat and breathe but no way to prosper and grow and really have any quality of life and freedom….we need to not be complacent and educate ourselves and our friends and families…more private sector jobs need to be created, NOT GOVERNMENT JOBS that do not pay for themselves but are soley supported from taxes.

  • angel-wanna-be

    Envy is spelled out very clearly in The tenth commandment, God States,_”You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”__The answer is fairly simple, READ THE BIBLE!

    • Mike In MI

      Hey, Angel – Proverbs 1:10 – 19 is fully revealing is this regard, especially the matter of the enticement that every gang member would draw what each needs from “the same purse”, pool, slush fund, Social Security Trust, Medicare Trust or any other treasure chest available to the leaders in charge of the thieves and murderers trying to fool the youth.

  • kilrntex

    My mother-in-law is a diehard democrat who grew up in the depression and believes that the repubs are for the rich and the dems are for the poor. Yes Virginia, the repubs want to see everyone improve their life and the dems want to make everyone poor except for the elite dems at the top, who want to rule over the rest of us. Most of the rich scum in the world are dems. I’ve never heard any of them give their money to the poor and never heard of any of them paying any taxes! How many lowlifes did obama go through before he found enough dems to fill his cabinet. Many took their names off the list fearing an audit. There’s Charlie Rangels all over the place in government. I understand why obama wants to raise taxes now, none of his people pay any. The dems are all maggots and parasites and many repubs are.

  • Scott

    I’ve been a Republican all of my life and probably always will be becouse I believe in working, saving and investing my earnings wisely as did my dad before me. That way of life at one time was the American way for both Democrats and Republicans. I was born in 1933. My parents lived through the depression and I saw how rough at times things were.
    I will say this, the depression was going to happen regardless. World war one contributed to it. But mostly as I remember it was the immigration. Too many people, and not enough jobs was the start of it. The country was growing too fast so something had to be done. So Hoover and Roosevelt found themselves with a country full of unemployed people. The author Quotes 28%. As I remember it , it was more like 55%. Maybe a 28% Ave. but that seems low. The WPA and S.S did help a lot of people who other wise would have starved to death, and some did. What Roosevelt did might not have been the right thing, but at least he did something. Unlike now, it wasn’t the Jobs leaving the country, it was too many people coming in for the jobs available. The stock market fell.
    The same thing is happening now, Immigration hasn’t changed, but the jobs have left. Sound familiar? A vicious Circle?
    Many bad decission were made during the depression, but we came through it.
    One more thing about S.S. If it had been used as it was meant to be used, it could have been a good thing. But when politicians were allow to borrow (steal) from it and use for every thing under the sun, than it became useless. 2.6 trillion in I.O.U.’s owed to it at this time, never to be paid back. But that little item sees never to be discussed.

    • Jeep

      Social Security is just a Ponzi Scheme. These schemes entice new investors by offering returns other investments cannot guarantee. The system is destined to collapse because the earnings, if any, are less than the payments to investors. Many high profile people have gone to jail recently (remember Madhoff?) for instigating such schemes. But, I suppose it is a case of the govt saying, “do as I say…”

    • Mike In MI

      Scott – It is appropriate to refer you to the entry by “JEEP” of April 19 at 7:59 AM. He pretty well said all that need be said RE you.
      Before you posted, you should have read the openning article to the point of understanding. Had you done so you would know one of the points proven was that voting for either of the Big 2 results in scant differences in the consequences. That’s why believing any of the propaganda either releases is the height of foolishness.

      • Scott

        Mike: After reading most of your winded responses, I would suggest you try your hand at something you are more adapted to, for instances “hog slopping”.

    • ted crawford

      I believe that Social Security WAS used as they intended, given the way the bill was written! We continuely hear about the “unintended consequences” of their actions, nothing is further from the truth! I’m a simple man, if I can see the consequences, then they did! If not, they should never run for office!

  • working class

    I’ve had enough with both parties. I want honesty a new reality show pitting all would be candidates against a series of lie detector questions; I’d televise the test and results. I’d be fair and ask each person the same questions I’d make them short and to the point. No wavering simply yes and no questions. Then give them an hour after the questions to watch them explain their answers. It’s no different than the government telling the food industry we need to see the labels of ingredients on the food we eat. I’d like to see the same labels on our elected officials we choose. You have the democrat party put in 10 questions and the republican party put in 10 questions. Have each party administer the test for accuracy. Sample questions like these would be great.
    1. Have you cheated on your wife?
    2. Have you ever tried to beat a lie detector test?
    3. Have you cheated on your taxes?
    4. Pro tax increases?
    5. Pro abortion?
    6. Have you ever taken a bribe?
    7. Should we allow illegal immigrants?
    8. Should we Legalize marijuana?
    9. Would you outlaw lobbyists?
    10. Should we drill for our own oil?
    11. Send high school drop outs to the military?
    12. Force welfare recipients to work for their benefits?
    13. Do you support the death penalty?
    14. Have you done illegal drugs?
    15. Could you push THE BUTTON?
    16. Would you send you son or daughter to war?
    17. Should lawyers have to pass an ethics exam every 4 years in order to keep their license?

  • Ronald D Johnston

    Send all the lawyers out to the middle of the ocean and sink the thousands of ships. The ones who can make it back to shore might be pretty good people.

  • Tracy

    Follow the money!!!! The big donors always hedge their bets!!!!

  • Roy

    The statement that we all want freedom is patently false. The Democrats DO NOT wish for everyone to be free, but to exercise absolute control over all aspects of our lives. If you vote Democrat and don’t understand this, you are ignorant. If you do understand this, then you are compliant with their facist policies.

    • BigBadJohn

      Old political saying:
      Democrats want to regulate business, Republicans want to regulate how you live. Absolutely not cut and dried but kind rings true if you look at history.
      Democrats forced companies to fund pension plans, republicans let companies raid those pension funds. Democrats keep trying to limit oil drilling. Unfortunately, Democrats, or at least this administration, now want to take an active stance in your personal choices vis a vis healthcare.
      Republicans want to limit or abolish abortion which is a family planning issue.
      Republicans pushed the whole concept of “war on drugs” and came up with mandatory sentencing. The best way to win that war would be to take the profit out of it – legalize drugs.
      Republicans want to limit what you do behind your own closed doors, gay marriage,pornography etc.
      Read most of the people here, they would love to see Christianity proclaimed the national religion.
      These are personal issue and the government should not have any say in them.

    • denniso

      Roy, if you vote Repub based on that simplistic statement of political philosophy,then you’d better look twice at whose actually ignorant and complicit.
      The Repubs want to force the Christian religion into public life..

      The ‘moralists’ in the Repub party are the most strident and judgemental in backing and promoting the so called ‘war on drugs’,that tells you that you can’t smoke a natural weed and if you do or dare sell it you go to prison,sometimes for life.

      Most ‘conservatives’ want the State to jail doctors if they comply w/
      what their female patients want to do w/ their own body.

      Most ‘conservatives’ have supported the Feds in their pursuit of medical marijuanna patients.

      Most ‘conservatives’ want the Feds to prohibit terminally ill people in terrible pain from gracefully ending their lives.

      All Dems want is a fair and just society w/ civil rights and freedom for all,rich and poor. That goal means that we have to have some degree of constraints on absolute freedom…speed limits,environmental regs,prescription drug regs,laws against child labor,labor safety laws,affordable access to healthcare for all.

      If you want a free for all,survival of the fittest society where the rich and powerful control everyone else,move to Somalia and other countries where the most money and the biggest gun dictates life and death to all.

      • Jeep

        You are such a democratic hack…If you are going to tell a lie, follow Hitler’s advice and make it a big one.

        Reps do not want to make Christianity a “state religion.”

        There are “moralists” in both parties that want to keep illegal drugs illegal.

        Conservatives want doctors to be free to decide on whether, or not to perform abortions. Not to be forced by the “State” to perform abortions just because they are doctors.

        You purposefully confuse “moralists” with conservatives when you talk about “medical marijuana” use.

        Let’s see…you want assisted suicide to be legal…okay. Most conservatives recognize this for the repugnant act of “doctors” who get their jollies in legalized murder.

        Dems want a “fair and just society”? Then, you turn around and say there has to be “some degree of constraints on absolute freedom”. It cannot be both. In your utopian world someone has to be hurt in order to give freebies to someone else. The rich are citizens too. But, you would gladly bring down the wrath of the “State” to force slaves to take your handouts. How about this? A free America where the outcome is not guaranteed, just the opportunity. Otherwise, go to Denmark.

        I’ve been to Somalia, doesn’t look anything like the US.

        I am sure you will have some inane comments, but at least unlock your mind first. Or, don’t take the check from the Democratic Nat’l Committee for your next post.

      • JeffH

        Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as ‘kooks’, ‘right-wing’, ‘liberal’, ‘left-wing’, ‘gun nuts’ ‘terrorists’, ‘conspiracy buffs’, ‘radicals’, ‘militia’, ‘racists’, ‘religious fanatics’, ‘sexual deviates’, and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues

      • Jeep

        Spot on, Jeff.

        “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.” Saul Alinsky

      • JeffH

        Jeep, it so nice to see the people that have done their homework and learned their lessons well. You, my friend, are a quick study. Keep up the good work.

      • Claire

        JeffH— I can remember this old saying “don’t mix religion with politics, if you do, neither wins.”

      • JeffH

        Claire, yes, you are absolutly right.

      • angel-wanna-be

        dennisso, judeao-christian religion has been a part of America Heritage from the get go!_Put down all your REVISED and New Age editions of American History and read the originals. _Our Judicial System as a whole is based on BIBLICAL PRINCIPLE as well.

      • ted crawford

        So true, Angel! This is clear when we recall James Madisons answer to someone who ask how the Constitution might work. He answered ” The Constitution was designed for a people whos principals are founded in Judeao Christian beliefs. It is wholly inadequate to all others”

      • Normal Guy

        Ted can’t find your reference anywhere but religious right sites. Here are a couple of quotes that suddest more support for seperation of church and state.

        June 2, 1779–Thomas Jefferson’s “Bill for Religious Freedom” was introduced; it objected to establishment of religion by law or by required tax support for religion: “The impious presumptions of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavouring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world.” Petitions for and against Jefferson’s bill were drafted.

        1785–James Madison”s “Memorial and Remonstrance” was drafted and circulated as a petition. It protested not only against taxes for religion, but also against the legal establishment of religion: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish, with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects? That the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?” As for Christianity, Madison wrote, “During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” Madison continued, “What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny, in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people.”

      • Average Joe

        Normal Guy says:
        April 20, 2010 at 9:33 pm
        Finally something we can agree upon. Many people confuse what the Declaration of Independence says with the Constitution :
        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.
        vs:
        We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

        While the 1st Amendment does allow us to practice religion of our choosing…it does not infer that any particular religion is recognized as the religion of the nation. It simply means that we are free to worship any diety that we choose to worship or no diety all.

        It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
        Robert A. Heinlein

  • DaleK

    Alfonse, you are probably correct in your assessment that the Republicans need to use short sound bytes and such, as the Democrats have been more efficacious in delivering their message, although full of half-truths, distortions & out right lies (see the meretricious blather coming from the Democrats & their media allies during the health(no)care debate).
    As reported recently, the Tea Partiers tend to be better educated, more well read, & higher earners than the general public at large; they at least bother to educate themselves, rather than many of our fellow citizens, who are content with the pablum they are fed by the Democrat-controlled media and schools. For them, ignorance is bliss, for they can’t possibly fathom that a government that “cares for them” by giving them costly goods & services which, for example is the essence of “free” healthcare, is at the same time, rapaciously seizing our (and their) Constitutional freedoms. I am sorry to say that far too many of our fellow citizens are content in their indolence to see that they in effect, have become wards of the state, or slaves, addicted to those “gifts” of the government, of which the rest of us are paying for.
    Our freedom rests upon information, which this Administration is trying desperately to control through laws & regulations such as the “fairness doctrine” & internet control, which are inimical to The Constitution but they don’t care, because it is ALL about power.

  • Jeep

    To paraphrase sc, we need to identify the common enemy. I would extend the definition of the “common enemy” to include anyone who votes party line, just because. The more people we can get involved in the political process, the better. Let everyone be a part, but don’t show up without your critical thinking cap. As Einstein said, “Information is not knowledge.”

  • http://www.personalliberty.com/news/pediatric-patients-with-chronic-pain-look-to-acupuncture-19609231/ James A Graham

    PASS THIS ON TO EVERYBODY YOU KNOW

    Barack OBAMA, in his Cairo speech, said: “I know, too, that Islam has always been a part of America’s story.”

    AN AMERICAN CITIZEN’ S RESPONSE:

    Dear Mr(?) Obama:

    Were those Muslims that were in America when the Pilgrims first landed? Funny, I thought they were Native American Indians.

    Can you show me one Muslim signature on the United StatesConstitution?

    Declaration of Independence?

    Bill of Rights?

    Didn’t think so.

    Did Muslims fight for this country’s freedom from England? No.

    Did Muslims fight during the Civil War to free the slaves in America? No, they did not. In fact, Muslims to this day are still the largest traffickers in human slavery. Your own half brother, a devout Muslim, still advocates slavery himself, even though Muslims of Arabic descent refer to black Muslims as “pug nosed slaves.” Says a lot of what the Muslim world really thinks of your family’s “rich Islamic heritage,” doesn’t it Mr. Obama?

    Where were Muslims during the Civil Rights era of this country? Not present.

    There are no pictures or media accounts of Muslims walking side by side with Martin Luther King, Jr. or helping to advance the cause of Civil Rights.

    Where were Muslims during this country’s Woman’s Suffrage era? Again, not present. In fact, devout Muslims demand that women are subservient to men in the Islamic culture. So much so , that often they are beaten for not wearing the ‘hajib’ or for talking to a man who is not a direct family member or their husband. Yep, the Muslims are all for women’s rights, aren’t they?

    Where were Muslims during World War II? They were aligned with Adolf Hitler. The Muslim grand mufti himself met with Adolf Hitler, reviewed the troops and accepted support from the Nazi’s in killing Jews.

    Finally, Mr. Obama, where were Muslims on Sept. 11th, 2001? If they weren’t flying planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon or a field in Pennsylvania killing nearly 3,000 people on our own soil, they were rejoicing in the Middle East. No one can dispute the pictures shown from all parts of the Muslim world celebrating on CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and other cable news networks that day. Strangely, the very “moderate” Muslims who’s asses you bent over backwards to kiss in Cairo, Egypt on June 4th were stone cold silent post 9-11. To many Ame ricans, their silence has meant approval for the acts of that day.

    And THAT, Mr. Obama, is the “rich he ritage” Muslims have here in America.

    And now we can add November 5, 2009 – the slaughter of American soldiers at Fort Hood by a Muslim major who is a doctor and a psychiatrist who was supposed to be counseling soldiers returning from battle in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    That, Mr. Obama is the “Muslim heritage” in America.
    EVERY AMERICAN MUST
    READ THIS !!

    Be Sure to SEND IT
    to All . Even Print it out
    and Send by Snail Mail !!

    Obama Must be Stopped

    • Doc Sarvis

      And the Bush family was aligned with Hitler.
      And Timothy McVie of OK City fame was a Christian.
      And George Bush overlooked warnings of 9/11.
      Are you sure there were no Muslim’s that fought for the Union in the Civil War or that fought for the U.S. in WWII? How do you know this?
      And we know that there Are Muslims fighting for the U.S. in Iraq and Afghanistan.

      With these facts and valid questions, I just don’t see your point.

      • James Vincent

        First of all your facts are wrong, which is normal for the social liberals of the left.
        George W. Bush aligned with Hitler is BS and Nazism is a Right wing Philosophy! Both aforementioned are false!

        And Timothy WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN!! And you know it?
        You can stand in a garage all day and this doesn’t make you a car.
        The Fruit of Timothy McVey was murder and death, not forgiveness and love! Mathew 7:17, 18 Jesus said His followers would bear GOOD FRUIT not evil, a good tree cannot bear bad fruit as McVey did… Galatians 5:22 the Fruit of the Spirit which is Love,Joy,Peace,Patience,Kindness,Goodness,Faithfulness,Gentleness and Self Control. Did Timothy McVey show any of these Characteristics? NO!! Just another Liberal Attack on Christianity! Shame, shame!!!

      • libertytrain

        While Timothy may have been raised in a Christian home, he did not carry out Christian teachings —

      • Doc Sarvis

        The same can be said about Muslim Extremists (or any extremists for that matter). Though they may have been raised Muslim, they are not following the Muslim faith but an extremist cause that misuses the religon for awful purposes.

      • libertytrain

        Doc – I think I have to agree with you on that one. Though I am going to get a barrage of attacks launched at me now – Cie la Vie.

      • Jana

        Doc S,
        I agree with you on this for sure. I often speak out against Islamism because there are radicals in this religion that take the killing of infidels to the extreme.(Anyone not believing in their god is an infidel) But there are a lot of truly nice Muslims, and not all of them have evil intentions on anyone. Just like there are these radical supposed Christians. These are the ones who kill abortionists etc. These radicals of any religious bent are not the norm in anything. There has to be something born in them or taught to them from an early age that is not normal, to be so cruel.

      • Claire

        jana– I have edited many manuscripts on Islam/Muslim/Terrorism and they begin their teachings almost from infancy, the minute they are able to walk and talk. The things I have read are mindboggling. As you already know, the teachings are deplorable especially for the female gender. The girls are married to men of all ages. A lot of these little girls are married by age 6. When these little girls start their menses the marriage is consumed. And when they become pregnant at a very early age, they usually have severe problems giving birth because they are not fully grown. Some of these little girls have a terrible time and end up not being able to control their urine. They just stand there and urinate and they cannot help it. And the torture they inflict on people that do not want to belive in this religion are taken out of their homes in the middle of the night-tying their legs to a camel, and tying the arms to a different camel-consequently splitting the person in half. I could go on and on telling you the things I have read. This is no doubt why I have no use for this culture. Sure, there is good and bad in religions, but I do not want any of them around me or my family. This is a religion that I cannot and will not deal with.

      • Claire

        Jana–a few mispelled words. Sorry, hit the wrong keys. I should have proofread.

      • Claire

        Here I edit for a living, trust me people, I do a good job–at work.

      • Average Joe

        James Vincent says:
        April 19, 2010 at 3:54 pm
        First of all your facts are wrong, which is normal for the social liberals of the left.
        George W. Bush aligned with Hitler is BS and Nazism is a Right wing Philosophy! Both aforementioned are false

        While you may be correct concerning George Bush not being alligned with Hitler, you might try looking into Prescott Bush … Geroge W’s grandaddy…who lost his bank during WW2 when it was charged under the
        “Trading with the enemy” act……sometimes we need to research more than what happened last week….last month … last year….actual history did not begin last year etc…. While you are at it…look into Prescott Bush’s ties to the Saudi/Bin Laden Group……..it didn’t just start……..I cannot stress enough….RESEARCH….RESEARCH….RESEARCH!

      • http://naver samurai

        Doc, aren’t you forgetting that Joe Kennedy was a Nazi sympathiser and was fired from is job as Ambassador to England? How about the Kennedys having ties to the mafia? How about “Osama’s” brother being a leader of a radical muslim group in Kenya and killing people because they are not muslim? How about Jimmy Carters brother Billy spyibg for the Lybians during the 1970′s? If you wish to cast blame on someone, make sure you can cover your own !@# first!

      • Doc Sarvis

        Mine is covered quite well, thank you.
        I am afraid (or glad) that there is not enough room on one website/server to document all of the politician’s evil doings in the world. I believe Kennedy did have some ties with the mob but I don’t know much about Joe K. I can not believe Billy Carter was a spy. That makes me laugh. Anyway, please tell me what radical muslim group President Obama’s half brother is a leader of and proof of them killing people because they are not muslim.
        My point to the above post is the same as yours to me. It is easy to make a laundry list of claims (false or half truths at best) to make a flimsy case.

      • libertytrain

        Doc – I have to admit that when I read the idea of Billy Carter being a spy – I could only think of the old “Get Smart” series of bungling spies. Of course, I suppose someone might have been so brilliant as to pose Billy as the goofy beer-drinking, good-old-boy bro – it was all a ploy to befuddle the Libyans and learn all the secrets —

      • Average Joe

        Didin’t ya know…there was suveillance equipment in all of those cans of “Billy Beer” when he traveled abroad….lol…sorry guys and gals…I just couldn’t neglect the Billy Beer…..

    • V Cox

      Here is James Graham again, with his explosive email pitch to
      STOP OBAMA Anyone who reads and sends this made up stuff is simply a co-conspirator in Mr. Graham’s bigotry.

    • JeffH

      James A Graham, I don’t find your posts offensive at all. Keep them coming. Interesting that they always seem to push somebody’s button the wrong way. Food for thought.

  • Jeep

    In the last presidential election the largest companies in America gave around 2-1 in donations to the Dem party. Corporations and bankers such as Goldman Sachs, HP, Microsoft, etc. To me, some suprising names. I really do not know what this means, but I find it very counter intuitive to the prevailing wisdom. Any thoughts?

  • charles

    a good goal would be to have a republican congress that can over ride veto’s. imagine sending thew fair tax bill to president. he veto’s it. congress over rides veto. the results would be immediately felt through out the economy. would that be enough to discredit this president and all democrats. what if obamacare was repealed using a congress over ride of veto. then send just a bill to allow for purchasing health care across state lines. president veto’s it. congress over rides veto. there would be immediate results again discrediting this president and his policies.his approval numbers would drop and congresses would go up. talk about setting the table for the next republican president. over riding veto’s has been rarely done but i believe it would be good for this time. GOD help us!

    • Jeep

      The current congress has decided to shelf a budget for this year. Apparently, the fear of exposing the costs associated with all the “new” programs and entitlements is too high a political price. (Reps have used this tactic in the past too.) However, I think the best we can hope for in the short term is that we can elect enough conservative/libertarian candidates into the house to just defund health care. The taxes will still be there. But, maybe by 2012 we can carry through to get the senate and abolish this monster.

      • JeffH

        Shelfing the budget is nothing new, as I believe it happened a couple times under Busg also. That said, it is an election year which explains why.

      • JeffH

        Bush

      • Jeep

        Exactly right, Jeff. As they say in the movie industry, “There are no new plots under the Sun!”

    • BigBadJohn

      I have always contended that government just works better when the three branches of government are split. The more even the better, it forces congress and senate to work together to get anything passed and limits either parties agenda.

      • Jeep

        Totally agree BBJ. It seems to me that a Dem pres with a Rep congress does not allow for the “progressive agenda” of the left to even get started, while keeping the wandering Reps on the path.

  • Laura Schlegel

    Regardless of party affiliation, we all want the same things, the freedom for upward mobility for all. So it’s up to US, “We the People” to hold our representatives responsible for policies that keep this dream alive and well. Insted of worrying about size of governemnt, we need to be conerned about a government that works. When we are dumbed down and aren’t actively engaged in sound debate with our representatives, our government is controlled/bought by the corporatocracy, only concerned with profiteering, regardless of what they are exploiting (people, animals, environment, economy), we all lose. Members of both parties have voted for deregulations over the years, that have exploited US all. We all need fight to establish smart regulations that keep US working, educated, humane, healthy and living in safe, sustainable ways to balance the success of people, planet and the corporations. The corporations need to pay their fair share in taxes to the local communities they profit from. When CEOs make tax capped millions, invest off shore, outsource jobs and US workers benefits are being cut or are being laid off, there is something seriously wrong and out of balance. Pay attention to which representatives are fighting for sustainable people and planet right & profits with sound debate and which ones vote for corporate gouging profiteering rights with smear tactics, hate mongering and lies.

    • Hugh Jordin

      Sound thinking.

    • Tone

      Don’t stop there keep going I’m with you brother !!!!

  • charles

    the democrat party was not always like it is. it did not change over night. they were in charge for nearly 40 years and progressed toward what they currently are. socialism by another name is still socialism. first they started the social programs claiming to be the party of compassion to build a voting base then slowly started down the road to socialism. i am obviously a republican but even the republican party has been getting high jacked by some moderate socialist. I feel it would be easier to correct the mistakes of the republican party then to try and start a new party.

  • Alfonse de Lata

    The Democrats still have the upper hand in being able to project the idea that they are the party of the little man or the working man. In order to combat this, the Republicans need to develope a system whereby they can convince people through a sound bite strategy. Many people do not have long attention spans and won t read National Review or any like publications as wonderful as they are. We need one liners and zingers.

    • Sonny

      We don’t need one liners and zingers. If we can make it to the next election things will get better. Over the last 40 years or so the deficit has actually grown durring the terms of Republican presidents I don’t think this is as much about the president as it is the make up of congress at the time. Clintons deficit percentage was far less than any of the Republicans but he had to deal with a republican congress for most of his 2 terms and they didn’t let him get away with some of the spending he proposed. Bush on the other hand had to deal with a Dem controlled house most of the time, 9-11, and Katrina which were all very costly so we are not really comparing apple to apple.
      Soon conservatives will be in control again in the house and more control will be in place to stop the bleeding.
      Besides what does the deficit matter the last president to actively try to reduce it was Andrew Jackson. The U.S. has already passed it on to 6 generations whats another 6 going to hurt we never intend to pay it off anyway.

    • JeffH

      Alfonse de Lata, “The Democrats still have the upper hand in being able to project the idea that they are the party of the little man or the working man.”
      I disagree completely. My case in point is just look at the Tea Party movement and the people that voted for Obama that heve “come out” to admit their mistake. Look at Congress and their approval by the masses. The Democrats only fool the “fools” now.

  • Eternal Vigilance

    While the above reviews address or attack the “heart” of the problem, they do not touch upon the “root” of the problem – which is the individual’s failure to live a responsible life.

    Whether out of selfishness or neglWhile the above reviews address or attack the “heart” of the problem, they do not touch upon the “root” of the problem – which is the individual’s failure to live a responsible life.

    Whether out of selfishness or negligence, the failure of the individual to meet a minimal level of involvement in the workings of this “Representative Republic” shows either a conscious or sub-conscious expectation of “something for nothing”.

    Clear evidence of this is given in the article – for example – lack of interest in monitoring banks once FDIC was enacted, Social Security, or the “Federal Reserve.” With respect to the latter, querying school children to young adults reveal no recollection of being taught the basic economics involved in the competing interests surrounding the effects of inflation.

    One “unrecognized” aspect of the current “Tea Party” activities is that the underlying, basic, sentiments behind the Tea Party “talking points”, are answered if all citizens become actively responsible for both their personal lives, and fulfill the responsibility imposed by their participation in this “Representative Republic.”

    Participation in this sense considers receipt of any benefit conferred as acceptance of the responsibility to constructively participate.

    Eternal Vigilance
    Stockton, Californiaigence, the failure of the individual to meet a minimal level of involvement in the workings of this “Representative Republic” shows either a conscious or sub-conscious expectation of “something for nothing”.

    Clear evidence of this is given in the article – lack of interest in monitoring banks once the FDIC was enacted, Social Security, or the “Fed”

    One “unrecognized” aspect of the current “Tea Party” activities is that the underlying, basic, sentiments behind the Tea Party “talking points”, are answered if all citizens become actively responsible for both their personal lives, and fulfill the responsibility imposed by their participation in this “Representative Republic.”

    Participation in this sense considers receipt of any benefit conferred as acceptance of the responsibility to constructively participate.

    Eternal Vigilance
    Stockton, California

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Eternal,
      Two words cojoined that libs hate……Personal responsiblity!!!!

      • http://naver samurai

        Let’s not forget, christian, church, God, Jesus, praying anywhere, founding fathers, etc., the list is long and distinguished.

      • Jana

        samurai,
        EXCELLENT!!!

  • Lisa Jones

    Me thinks someone is working towards getting more Republicans elected. No partisin politics here. LOL.

    • s c

      There’s a simple rule that lets you know the true quality of your government, Lisa. If the ‘system’ does not make life better, it will make life more complex. In this country, most people refuse to
      think about politics and what makes life complicated. Can you really say that politics has made your life so good that there’s nothing worth examining? You must live in a different world, Lisa. You seem to have a very bad case of ‘itcan’thappenhereitis.’
      Divide and conquer worked 2,000 years ago. It still works. You sound as though you’d rather make it easy for those who will do ANYTHING to rule the world. All it takes is for people to avoid looking into a mirror and asking a simple question. Do you have what it takes, or are you too ‘comfy’ to take a hard look at yourself and answer a simple question?

      • Danna

        To: s c. You sure did read into what she had to say in what, 2 sentences? I agree with her later comment. They ALL need to go. They need a term just like the President. Nothing will change when they all know how to play THEIR game (both sides).

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      You have missed the point, and taken you left wing liberal defensive posture, and formulated an attack, as the dems do when confronted with the truth. The problem is, is that both sides are made up of mostly lawyers, who to me, are the scum of society. They think of themselves as priveleged above the rest of us, and think of themselves as knowing what is best for all of us, and they are all greatly out of touch with the common man. Also, the problem is, is that the democrat voting base is also out of touch with reality and the common man, because they buy into what was mentioned in this article, that the democrats are for the working man and the Republicans are for the rich, and it couldnt be farther from the truth. Making all these social programs and handouts and tax hikes the democrats constantly bring, cost the poor and the middle class so much. The democrats are the richest, slovenly richest people out there. They do not represent the working class and the poor, no, they prey on them. They do all they can do to keep people down and out and depressed and dependant on the government, from which their power comes from. This is not true. The democrats give you these little handouts and keep you down in your place where they want you, and most of you that vote for them are content to let them do this to you. Get educated and see who they are, and what they have done to so many people, which is to keep you down.

      • Barb

        I have to agree with you! The democratic party is the party of hand outs not hand ups. They give a person just enough to barely help and then keep them firmly under their thumb so they can never get out of their hole. Sadly these people don’t see this because all they see is hand outs and it’s up to the working class to keep them going. Meanwhile the top Democrats are the richest people in the world , the elite of the elitists! The lawyers although not all but a lot of them are to blame for our health care trouble too, suing anyone and anything for any reason for astronomical settlements is the root cause of all this. It’s the out of control lawsuits that needs regulation not healthcare or health insurance.

      • Mike In MI

        Barb,
        You’re kidding yourself if you think the lawsuits are without cause or that the medical system is all lilly white, without blame. The disease care system in this country is about the most insidiously evil thing imaginable. Drug companies underwrite and direct the rules and regs in medicine invisibly, behind the screens and under the radar by secretly controlling what gets taught in medical scools and legal manipulation of what can be done or how.
        What they do keeps people in a weak and debilitated condition – “health” maintenance” – and keeps them poor by charging exhorbitant prices which only a pooled fund can pay for (insurance or government coffers). That concentrates and consolidates money to be used for more control over you and everybody under the system.
        They know that if they can induce you to feafully relinquish your dollars they can limit your freedom. They don’t care too much how much you make if they can ge you to give it to them because you are afraid of getting sick. Once they get hold of it they don’t care what you think or what you want because they know you can’t spend it as a free, personally responsible and choosing citizen, You literally become a slave to their commands and expectationsbecause you give them control over how and for what they will spend your money, given to them out of fear you might get a disease. Then they only allow it to be spent on keeping yu sick once they get their hands on you.

      • Mike In MI

        By the way, why do you think the FDA primarily goes after the nutritional supplement, herbs and heathful foods industries? At the same times FDA supports and permits BIGPHARMA’s licencng and distribution of drugs like Vioxx, Bextra, and on, and on that injure and kill hundreds of thousands of people a year while FDA protects the killers? They let them hide the numbers so we know little or nothing about it. That’s what the HIPAA laws do very efficiently because Gary Null, PhD researched the carnage, then wrote “Death By Medicine” to try to reveal to us the perfidy of the medical scam.

        The drugs and medical implements (also enabled by FDA) makers have prostituted and perverted “science” in order to produce and promulgate things that don’t do what the manufacturers say they do. Those things injure, debilitate and manipulate people through spreading disease, suffering and manipulation via physical and mental suppression.

        The net result is loss of freedom to think, act and live in whatever way you see beneficial to you. Government supports nd encourages it all to your detriment. They do everything they can to get you thinking they do it for your benefit – and you, Barb, have sucked it in deep so the hook is in your gills.

      • Barb

        Mike, if you noticed is said not all! AND I agree with you about the Big Pharma Companies too! They are the other leg of the problem. Yes there are legitimate lawsuits but there are a lot and I do mean a lot of frivolous ones as well, those hurt everyone and you have to admit that! So I stand corrected I should have mentioned the pharmaceutical companies too!

      • Mike In MI

        Barbie, You’re a doll (no pejorative intended).
        Fascinating to me – the difference between reasonable, common sense people who ARE able to critically examine themselves and what they think or have said on this site. Then they either admit it or clarify their thought processes. On the other hand, gliberal blabberfaces make unfathomably innane remarks, driven by unsound and insane minds emoting meandering rivers of polluted effluents and they never examine their reprobate regurgitants.

        Babs, I salute you! You’re the blessed.

      • Rob Alexander

        I have to disagree about lawsuits being the root cause (and trust me I have no love of lawyers). I see the root cause being mainly the 3rd party payor system – the fact that everything is paid for by insurance now.

        People cared about managing costs when they paid for most everything themselves, and were able to cover routine medical costs out of pocket without difficulty. Once the perception that “someone else” was paying the bill took hold, people didn’t care about the cost any more.

        Obviously malpractice lawsuits are out of control, but insurance for EVERYTHING is the root cause of the high costs.

    • The Doctor

      Having read the comments by Lisa above, I am compelled to respond. Lisa, don’t look now, but your “liberal partisanship” is showing! I am an individual who researches economic, political and social issues and have for many years. When I see someone lying, taking advantage of others or outright deceiving their fellow citizens, just to get-a-leg-up, I speak out and I don’t care what political party that individual represents, I’m going to call them out and let everyone know we have a thief and a liar in our midst! Right now, the vast majority of those committing “these sins” against their neighbors happen to be Democrats and anyone with the intelligence of a 5th grader can see it as plain as day. The fact that you state that “someone” is trying to get Republicans elected, shows quite clearly that you are a “shallow partisan individual” and a Democrat who is offended that someone would point out, who it is that is lying and stealing from the citizens of this country! This entire affair that has taken place surrounding all political issues in the past two years was “social engineering” by Democrats to “gain” their “socialist Utopia” with themselves as “absolute rulers”. Time to look in the mirror Lisa and “come clean”! Try honesty, you may even like it!

      The Doc

      • Barb

        Well said Doctor!!!!

    • Average Joe

      Lisa Jones says:
      April 19, 2010 at 5:33 am

      Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
      Which group do you fall into? Time to pick a side.

      • Claire

        Average Joe—Time to pick a side? There are bad politicians in both sides. Forget party affiliations, this is why we are in this mess.

      • Average Joe

        Clair,
        Please re-read my post. I think you missed the point….the sides to choose ….are you someone that wants people controlled or not?I myself have no wish to control anther human beings life….it is not my right to do so…..

        I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
        Robert A. Heinlein

      • Claire

        Average Joe—Whoops- I did miss you point. Sorry, a thousand pardons please. Like you I do not wish to control anyone else, I prefer to be my own person.

      • Jana

        Average Joe and Claire,
        That is what our problem is. We as conservatives want to live and let live. We are not activists so we live our lives working hard to make better lives for our families while those who do have ulterior motives are actively out working to change the laws to control all of us hard working people.

        It is time for us to become aware and to become active and say STOP. These Socialists are working hard to change our country and take it to a much lower level. We must become active too.

      • laura

        Jana I didn’t think we could get much lower OOOOHHHHH BUT WE CAN and they’re taking us there.
        We better start doing something.
        GOD BLESS
        AND GOD BLESS AMERICA

      • Claire

        Jana — And I agree with your post. I am not asking for a “pat” on the back but I have worked hard my entire life, and you have too. I always put out more work than anyone in my office, and I succeeded. I didn’t have to step on anyone’s toes or tromp on anyone. I am not that type of person. I always felt a person should earn their wages fairly and aquarely. I have had a decent good life and I want to keep it. I want to be able to continue this life. And I know the rest of you on this site feel the same way. I am not trying to be egotistical or selfish but we all deserve better than this. Like all of you, I want my kids and grandkids to have the same life I have had, maybe even better. We elected these people to be our representatives of America and most of them have sold us out. To put it mildly and without blasphemy (I really want to curse big time) we have been “had.” I am sorry to say this, but I have had enough. I am really aggravated with both parties. I am to the point that I want them out of my life for good. To be truthful with all of you on this site, I have really changed this past year and a half. For years, I used to try to give politicians the benefit of the doubt but no more. As everyone knows, I voted for Obama. I am disapointed with the people he has surrounded himself with,–Holder, Emmauel, Geithner, Gates, etc.
        I was raised in the sticks, poor as hell and I was used to hearing the music and the hollering from Black churches. It never bothered me, that was the way it was back then so I did not have a problem with Rev. Wright. I still don’t have a problem with him. Because I am USED to this. Believe me, I am not racist, I am just trying to make a point here. There were also tent revivals for the Whites back then and they did a lot of hollering too.
        I truly thought I voted for a person that would make a difference, no lobbyists, no earmarks, no backroom dealings, troops were going to be pulled out in 17 months, etc. Now I could kick myself in the rear. I sometimes think what the hell did I do? I did not make a wise decision and when you consider my age, I should have had the wisdom. I should not have voted at all.

      • Claire

        I am sorry if I offend anyone, but this is how I truly feel.

      • libertytrain

        Claire – your post was wonderful, from the heart and probably encompasses the way most of us feel – though I didn’t vote for him (smile). But I know what you mean -

      • Jana

        Claire,
        I don’t know how that post could have offended anyone. I agree with what you said, and thank you for sharing.

      • Average Joe

        Claire says:
        April 19, 2010 at 7:56 pm
        Gracious apologies are always accepted…..although is really wasn’t needed…Anyone can missread something….happens to me on a regular basis…thnx

      • Claire

        Average Joe– And I thank you for your graciousness.

    • Lisa Jones

      Wow you folks really get on the defense quick. How you can read so much into one or two lines. I was just stating that it looks like Bob is trying to get Republicans elected and that it’s clear he is partisin. I don’t really care as long you change who is there now. But if you think putting all Republicans in is going to solve the problem you are wrong. All those currently up for election in 2010 need to go. Does that sound like I’m a left wing person? You can’t keep electing the same people over and over and expect different results. So get rid of them all, not just the Democrats. You people here are so paranoid and afraid of everything it’s funny. What entertainment to read some of your comments.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Lisa Jones,

        If you think I am a partisan Republican hack you obviously haven’t been paying attention. I suggest you peruse my archives. I’ll direct you to one recent column: http://www.personalliberty.com/personal-liberty-articles/don%e2%80%99t-pin-your-hopes-on-the-party-of-lincoln/

        Happy reading,
        Bob

      • Lisa Jones

        Bob,

        I know in the past you have beat up on the Republicans too, but you come off as being mostly right wing. I’m actually very excited to see what happens in Nov. I’m hoping for 435 new faces in the house and 36 in the senate. The only way to show them we are discusted is to change them out and change them offen. They will never vote for term limits so it’s up to the people to limit their terms.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Lisa Jones,

        I am an ultra-conservative. I have devoted my life to research and the quest for truth. I am a student of history. I believe in personal liberty and freedom. If that makes me right wing in your book, so be it. I’m not sure I would agree with your assessment unless by right you mean the “correct” wing.

        All the best,
        Bob

      • denniso

        Bob,
        I am an unabashed liberal. I have devoted MY life to the quest for truth. I am a student of history,science,economics,philosophy and music. I believe in as much freedom,autonomy and individual responsibility as possible in a modern,nuclear,crowded and complex world. What does that make me?

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear denniso,

        I’m not in the habit of putting labels on people, so you tell me. However, ’tis troubling that you put a qualifier on freedom, autonomy and individual responsibility.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • JeffH

        The price that one pays for refusing to act on the truth as one sees it, is to be led to believe untruth to avoid guilt.

      • denniso

        Bob,
        Just to be clear…liberals want much the same as you do,we just think that our approach is better and more proven over time.

        We don’t want a gov’t any larger than necessary,likewise we don’t want a military any larger than is needed for defense.

        We want as many Americans as possible to live a good life and have the freedom that we all want.

        We want the gov’t out of our bedrooms and no one’s religion dictated to us and our kids in school.

        We know from history that large corporate power can literally take over gov’t and control citizins lives,so we want a gov’t(state and fed) that is large enough to be capable of stemming that power over our freedoms.

        We also know that w/o gov’t intervention and regulations,the private sector can and does inflict actual harm on citizens…bad drug products,faulty consummer products,environmental toxins,fraud and abuse in the financial sector…so we accept that we need a gov’t w/ enough power to combat those actions when most individuals can’t. History is replete w/ examples of private sector abuse of people unable to defend themselves against such power or deceit.

        We want a gov’t large enough to ensure a reasonable level of safety for Americans so we aren’t reduced to the ‘good old days’ of shootouts in the street and the the worst people dominating others w/ brute force and violence.

        We also don’t want a police state to accomplish this,which is why it is almost always liberals defending people if they are abused by police.

        Most of us want an end to the horrific, tragic,ineffective and very expensive ‘war on drugs’. Most of the people pushing the ‘war’ are conservatives who cry about freedom yet lock citizens away for years or life for drug use. The conservatives hero, Ronald Reagan, ramped up the drug war as no previous president had,imprisoning many for life
        for possesion of a pound of pot. I still wonder how the ‘conservatives’ who seem to value freedom can advocate such fascist behaviour from the gov’t.

      • denniso

        Dear Bob,
        To your point above about my putting a ‘qualifier on freedom,etc’…you know as well as anyone that there is essentially no such thing as absolute freedom, in life,society,marriage or work. We agree that we can’t falsely yell fire in a theatre because of the harm it would inflict. We agree to libel and slander laws in speech.
        We can’t own nuclear weapons or even dynamite w/o a permit. I can’t exercise my freedom and autonomy by dumping cyanide in a river upstream from where you drink.

        We have to balance the degree of freedom lost in any society w/ the benefits gained for individuals and the society itself…it isn’t easy and it’s an ongoing fight,but it doesn’t help when the debate is reduced to simplistic statements and black and white answers and labels that pre define us.

      • JeffH

        denisso, if I were to make a comment at all about liberals based on your most recent comments I see someone that lives in a catch 22 society and is totally confused about good and evil. You can’t have it both ways.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        denniso,
        you say all these pretty things that liberals want and what they stand for. how come I’ve never seen more than one or two that practice these ideals?? Your words are very nice but also very empty!!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Bob,
        If you could, how about running a column by Burt Prelutski (SP?)? He has some very good points and will call things what they are good or bad!! I am a very big fan of his!

      • Mike In MI

        It is part of the nature of print media, Lisa, that people don’t hear your tone, inflections and modulations of voice. It is selfish egotism for you to assume that people reading your words know what is in your mind – unless your explanations define your meanings. It is generally expected that folks participating on this site are not paranoid. That is, unless your use of “paranoid” means knowledgeable, informed and reasonable verbally communicative.
        You can’t be understood if you don’t write so as to “communicate”

      • Jana

        Mike in MI,
        My sentiments exactly. When we write something we need to go back over it and make sure it is clear. I have reread a few things that I wrote and had to go back and re-explain what I meant.
        Another point is most all of us realize the fact that it is not just one party that is at fault. There are a few Dems in here that think their party is perfect, however most of us do speak often that we need to get back to the Constitution and Conservatism in this country. We also believe in voting most of them out as soon as possible to stop this ‘career politician’ mentality.

      • Robert

        Lisa, over half the country knows that the Dems are the walfare party
        we don’t even have to ask a person what party they favor.
        If you have ever worked around new emplyee and he\she is a Dem. the 1St thing the do on day two of the job is tell the boss that’ mama say I need a raise. I’ve seen people that don’t have use of their arms and legs do more to help themselves. a Dem is to lazy earn a fare living.

      • Hugh Jordin

        How broadly unfair can one be?

        Every Dem is a leach and every Republican is a saint??!!!

        Get real.

      • Robert

        Hugh, you have it backwards man. have you ever seen CBS, & NBC news?
        They lie I told it like we see it.

      • Mike In MI

        Wow! Hugh Jordin, Thanx for making me look prescient. While I was considering and writing my last entry to Barb above at 4/19 at 11:59
        Hugh accommodated me by posting this.

        OK everybody, read what Baby Hughey has written here in answer to Robert’s post. Then read Rboert’s words carefully and see how accurate and reasonable Hughey’s comment is. Notice any correlation? I really think Hughey ought to look into applying to the Obama teleprompter guild. He’s got the Rules for Progressive propaganda pretty pat. He takes a sentence. Adds a few inflammatory words and phrases. Strikes out some words. Flips the meaning. Takes his self promoting assumption of elitist superiority. Then, informs Robert, Robert is out of touch with reality, needing to “Get real”.

        That’s almost exactly what Eve did with God’s Words in Genesis under the influence of the Serpent. Hughey, of course, writes as thought he is under the influence of the modern day incarnation of the Serpent in the WH.

      • Hugh Jordin

        Mike Mi-

        Talk about misinterpretation???!!!

        You take the prize.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Mike In MI,
        But very accurate!!!!

      • Harold Olsen

        Another thing I’ve noticed about co-workers who identify themselves as liberals or Democrats is that they are the laziest and get into trouble and get fired more often than those who identify themselves as conservatives or Republicans. Most jobs, though low paying, I’ve had I’ve been a supervisor. I had one guy working under me who was a liberal Democrat who actually said to me one day, “Just because I have to be here for eight hours doesn’t mean I have to actually do any work.” That, to me, typifies the work ethic of the left. They just want a free ride and do not want to earn there own way. I have seen very few exceptions of this.

      • Palin12

        I’ve noticed the exact same things, Harold! I worked on swing shift with a liberal coworker. The supervisor from days goes home 2 hours after we get there, and the minute she leaves he takes a 20-minute nap while the rest of us keep on getting the work out. He was not able to focus at work and was eventually fired.

      • Hugh Jordin

        I work with people of all political persuasions and they ALL work very hard or they don’t last. Conservatives and liberals get along because they cordially agree to disagree on politics but all have the same work ethic.

      • Hugh Jordin

        do you think Fox is truthful?

        They are all full of it, they just tell different lies to pander to the paranoias and delusions of their target audiences.

      • JeffH

        They “pander” to the broadest and most informed “paranoids” viewing audiance. FOX must be more truthfull than the other alphabets or else the majority likes the “pandering of paranoia”.

      • Tone

        Take it from someone that has spent the last 25 years working in the factories. We produced more than all of the other industrialized nations COMBINED and the corporations profited more then they ever did. Yet our pay has gone down in relation to the cost of living, our benefits have been cut while the cost of those benefits have skyrocketed, the gap between the rich and the poor has gotten bigger and bigger, and our jobs have been shipped overseas, and now the right has the nerve to call us lazy, the audacity to say we just want had outs, and worst of all we are told if we don’t like it to go move elsewhere! HOW DARE YOU!!

        Try to understand this. We loved Ronald Regan and we believed in his economic policies they made the nation thrive. When he spoke world powers fell. I can’t even begin to explain how great it was to be 20 years old in 1985! The saddest part is that it should have worked and it would have if the corporations had reinvested in America in the same way that the workers produced for the corporations. But the corporations got greedy and tried to take the money and run.

        We wont let the corporations control us anymore then they already do. If it comes down to a choice between corporate slavery or socialism we will chose socialism but we don’t like it anymore then you do. If republicans can’t find a way to get the corporations to reinvest in America then you are useless to us.

        P.S All main stream media is corporate driven and biased toward their favorite political party puppets. The only place to get unbiased opinions is on the internet!

    • Scott

      Right on!

  • s c

    Now, if some amongst us would dare to read and absorb this material, we might be able to confront the common enemy (politicians). Many people refuse to understand the significance of a two-party system that dotes on power and class envy.
    No, I don’t mean the usual ‘this party is good’ and ‘that party is bad’ idea. America has been USED and abused by generations of power-mad monsters who will stop at nothing to get and hold power.
    Americans have let themselves be held hostage by puppets who work for those who wait in the shadows. That makes many of us ‘useful idiots.’ It makes no sense to play a game based on someone else’s rules. The rules change daily, and those who benefit most are the ones who control the “leaders.” Think, people. We were given a blueprint in the 1700s. That blueprint has been manipulated and contaminated, and it is WE who suffer for it.
    We come into this world living under a Wizard of Oz
    plan. Until we see it for what it is, it is the puppet-masters who secretly control America. Our ‘leaders’ are talking heads and empty suits. Wake up, America. If you don’t think, you DON’T exist. The controllers know that. They know America will have to be in utter misery for some to dare to wake up and demand to be FREE. We are getting very close that situation, and the handwriting is on the wall(s).

    • BigBadJohn

      I agree with you s c,

      “Now, if some amongst us would dare to read and absorb this material, we might be able to confront the common enemy (politicians). Many people refuse to understand the significance of a two-party system that dotes on power and class envy.
      No, I don’t mean the usual ‘this party is good’ and ‘that party is bad’ idea. America has been USED and abused by generations of power-mad monsters who will stop at nothing to get and hold power.”

      The only difference between the two parties is who the handouts go to. Republicans favor the rich and cultivate their loyalty through tax breaks and handouts to specific industries. The Democrats use handouts to the poor to manipulate them, but they have their own favorite industries. All the while both parties line their own pocket with millions. The working man is screwed by both parties. Republicans like cheap labor and stop at nothing to control wages. Democrats do throw workers a bone once in while to keep them in line, like minimum wage, but it all about getting reelected.

      The one thing that both parties agree on, and was shown in campaign reform, is that they want to limit third party power. In North Carolina, they dropped the Libertarian party from the ballot.

      With the SC ruling that corporations can contribute as much as they want to election campaign, it is going to be almost impossible to get a third party elected that is for the people.

  • JeffH

    The Democratic Party has become the Lawyers’ Party. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are lawyers. Bill Clinton and Michelle Obama are lawyers. John Edwards, the other former Democrat candidate for president, is a lawyer and so is his wife Elizabeth. Every Democrat nominee since 1984 went to law school (although Gore did not graduate.) Every Democrat vice presidential nominee since 1976, except for Lloyd Bentsen, went to law school. Look at the Democrat Party in Congress: the Majority Leader in each house is a lawyer.
    Who was the last Republican president who was a lawyer? Gerald Ford, who left office thirty-one years ago.
    The “Lawyers’ Party” sees these sorts of people, who provide goods and services that people want, as the enemies of America. And so we have seen the procession of official enemies in the eyes of the Lawyers’ Party grow. Against whom do Hillary and Obama rail? Pharmaceutical companies, oil companies, hospitals, manufacturers, fast food restaurant chains, large retail businesses, bankers and anyone producing anything of value in our nation.
    Perhaps Americans will understand that change cannot be brought to our nation by those lawyers who already largely dictate American society and business. Perhaps Americans will see that hope does not come from the mouths of lawyers but from personal dreams nourished by hard work. Perhaps Americans will embrace the truth that more lawyers with more power will only make our problems worse.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/the_lawyers_party.html

    • TIME

      Jeff,
      Not all that strange when you look at the WWII War Crimes logs, 90% of the SS Gestapo were Lawyers prior to being good little Nazi SS Gestapo guys.

      You just gotta love them, – well not!

      • JeffH

        Ironic isn’t it!

      • denniso

        On the one hand Dems are accused of using the ‘politics of envy’ and on the other they are accused of being too close w/ Hollywood stars…Which is it? If Dems actually envied the richest of Americans and used envy to divide the country,why would they pal around w/ the stars?
        Answer…they don’t envy the rich or play the ‘politics of envy’. They
        don’t begrudge people their wealth,they just want everyone to be able
        to live a decent live and not have to die w/o things like healthcare or good nutrituion for kids.

      • Charles

        What are you talking about. The war on ppoverty has seen a transfer of wealth of over 1 trillion dollars. Has it stopped poverty. Not one bit. I guess my 60% of my earnings that go to the government aren’t enough. And you wonder why people don’t have enough money to buy things wich causes loss of jobs. Can you explain to me what country that has taxed and spent ever had a great economy. The answer is none. All have failed. I am sick of government, taxes, regulation, and wateful spending. But it is people like you that continues to exasparate the problem. Sad isn’t that the governfment can steal, print money but i can’t. Wars are started because there are people like you who think you can defy history but are proven wrong over and over. Sad!

      • Charles

        Hey deniso! Answer these questions for me. 1)How are the dems helping your working poor with all the taxes on gasoline. The so called working poor do drive cars. So consquently the redicuolus taxes most certainly hurt them. 2)The dems won’t allow for energy production in many areas of the US and refineries are not being allowed to be built to keep up with demand. This causes prices to go up. So again how is this helping the working poor. 3)Many inner cities have high sales taxes, high property taxes and all kinds of so called fees that are really taxes. Many of the working poor pay these kinds of taxes like you said. So how does that help them get out of their situation. How about all those taxes on our phone bill, our cell phone bill, energy bill, cable bill. This is not hurting the rich but is hurting millions and millions of Americans each day. That means less money in our pockets to save for our kids education, buy a new car, go to the movies, etc. I have already cut back on many of these things as have many Americans. The result is loss of jobs. But you dems don’t want an economy that expands, because it is unfair. You say you want everybody to live a good life, but you want to control every facet of how when and wear. You even want to decide wether or not if it is fair. Do you understand how we are all different. Some people love making but loads of money. Some people want to make enough to live a good life. Some people love to shop, others want to go vacation, some like me love to compete in bicycling events. Why do you see taxes and government intrusion as good. Dude, it has never worked and it will not work here.

      • shasta

        have your hand out denniso do ya? so again, us middle class that bust our arse for you lazy dems end up paying for your beer, cigs and drugs at the end of the day! YOU want those things you talk about, GO TO WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • laura

        Dear Shasta,
        You sound like-how I felt yesterday. LOL

        GOD BLESS

      • eyeswideopen

        Charles, if you are paying 60% of you earnings to the government, you are the only one who is. Get a tax lawyer and practice being rich…lol

      • Bob

        You need to get out of the fog your in, if you think Obamacare is going to give you better health care and help your children, you deserve him. Lets see how you feel in four years.

      • momof4

        denniso,
        Because just like Hollywood, they are immoral pukes!!!!

      • denniso

        Charles…taxes on gasoline are a very small part of the cost of a gallon of gas, and you ask how those taxes help the poor? The taxes go to building roads and bridges and allow for commerce and jobs that even the poor engage in. Cut those taxes or don’t let them keep up w/ inflation and see what happens to our market system and the jobs that keep all of us going.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        They pal around with the Hollywood stars, because they both share common ground, in being that they are both so out of touch with reality and the common man, that they bond together. They both think of themselves as better than everyone, so they bond together. They both have no morals, so they bond together. They both think screwing everyone and anyone is a good thing, so they bond together. Any more questions?

      • ToolGirLisa

        Healthcare is a privelege, not a right. If you can’t feed ‘em don’t breed ‘em. Ever watch the morons on Maury> Maybe you do come to think of it. Get a job.

      • Normal Guy

        JeffH – Time

        Jeffy – so the logic is lawyers bad – right.

        Here is a list of Lawyers who signed our Constitution:

        Alexander Hamilton, Gouverneur Morris, James Wilson, Charles Pinckney, John Rutledge, Roger Sherman, William Samuel Johnson, George Read, Richard Bassett, Rufus King, Jonathan Dayton, William Livingston, William Paterson, Jared Ingersoll, Gunning Bedford, David Brearly, John Dickinson, John Blair

        So the arguement you are making is what? That lawyers involved in politics has destroyed the nation? Is that it, so all these guys, our founding fathers, these evil lawyers are the problem? Really?

      • JeffH

        Today, we are drowning in laws, we are contorted by judicial decisions, we are driven to distraction by omnipresent lawyers in all parts of our once private lives. America has a place for laws and lawyers, but that place is modest and reasonable, not vast and unchecked. When the most important decision for our next president is whom he will appoint to the Supreme Court, the role of lawyers and the law in America is too big. When lawyers use criminal prosecution as a continuation of politics by other means, as happened in the lynching of Scooter Libby and Tom Delay, then the power of lawyers in America is too great. When House Democrats sue America in order to hamstring our efforts to learn what our enemies are planning to do to use, then the role of litigation in America has become crushing.

      • Normal Guy

        Jeffy

        What?

        Got any data to back up any of the stuff you claim in both responses to me – lots of opinions, zero facts, do you think I can find thousands of legal cases at every stage of this nations history, do you think that maybe law is a great way to create disciplined thinking and thats why lots of intelligent people take law?

        You know that the supreme court justices are the interpreters and the guardians of the constitution right?

        The Marshall Court 1801-1935 declared the Court to be the supreme arbiter of the Constitution (see Marbury v. Madison) and made several important rulings which gave shape and substance to the constitutional balance of power between the federal government and the states. In Martin v. Hunter’s Lessee, the Court ruled that it had the power to correct interpretations of the federal Constitution made by state supreme courts Both Marbury and Martin confirmed that the Court was entrusted with maintaining the consistent and orderly development of federal law. This is paraphrased from Wikipedia, but is accurate.

        What is it with all the extreme absolutism on the site. All layers are evil, lawyers are the reason th

      • Bob

        The problem isn’t with lawyers, the problem is we have taken God out of our goverment. We need Godly people in goverment like the people who signed the Constitution.

      • Normal Guy

        Bob

        Do some research on your beliefs; the founding fathers were not in favour of religious influence on our government. Jefferson’s response to the Danbury Baptists defined the separation of church and state.

        “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”

        Other founding fathers were not all pro religion, especially read Jefferson on this but here are a few appropriate quotes.

        “Lighthouses are more useful than churches” – Benjamin Franklin
        “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it” – John Adams
        “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man” – Thomas Jefferson

      • Jana

        Normal Guy,
        No one said anything about putting religion back in our government, he said to put God back in. The Founding Fathers did believe in God.

      • Jana

        Normal Guy,
        Also John Adams signed the Proclamation of Fasting and Prayer in 1798 of which the following is just a part of:

        “This is the text of President John Adams’ March 23, 1798 national Fasting and Prayer proclamation; as printed in the The Phenix/Windham Herald, April 12, 1798.
        I HAVE therefore thought it fit to recommend, that Wednesday, the 9th day of May next be observed throughout the United States, as a day of Solemn Humiliation, Fasting and Prayer; That the citizens of these states, abstaining on that day from their customary worldly occupations, offer their devout addresses to the Father of Mercies, agreeably to those forms or methods which they have severally adopted as the most suitable and becoming: That all religious congregations do, with the deepest humility, acknowledge before GOD the manifold sins and transgressions with which we are justly chargeable as individuals and as a nation; beseeching him, at the same time, of his infinite Grace, through the Redeemer of the world, freely to remit all our offences, and to incline us, by his holy spirit, to that sincere repentance and reformation which may afford us reason to hope for his inestimable favor and heavenly benediction; That it be made the subject of particular and earnest supplication, that our country may be protected from all the dangers which threaten it; that our civil and religious privileges may be preserved inviolate, and perpetuated to the latest generations; that our public councils and magistrates may be especially enlightened and directed at this critical period; that the American people may be united in those bonds of amity and mutual confidence, and inspired with that vigor and fortitude by which they have in times past been so highly distinguished, and by which they have obtained such invaluable advantages: That the health of the inhabitants of our land may be preserved, and their agriculture, commerce, fisheries, arts and manufactures be blessed and prospered: That the principles of genuine piety and sound morality may influence the minds and govern the lives of every description of our citizens; and that the blessings of peace, freedom, and pure religion, may be speedily extended to all the nations of the earth.
        And finally I recommend, that on the said day; the duties of humiliation and prayer be accompanied by fervent Thanksgiving to the bestower of every good gift, not only for having hitherto protected and preserved the people of these United States in the independent enjoyment of their religious and civil freedom, but also for having prospered them in a wonderful progress of population, and for conferring on them many and great favours conducive to the happiness and prosperity of a nation.
        Given under my hand and seal of the United States of America, at Philadelphia, this twenty-third day of March, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and ninety-eight, and of the Independence of the said States the twenty-second.
        JOHN ADAMS”

      • Bob Wire

        After reading much of these comments, I feel as if I’m at a tractor pull event and sharing moments with people with green teeth.

        Most all politician are attorneys! for christ sakes. Government has “everything” to do with Laws.

        Where did you people come from? and how did you find your way to town?

        That the “rich” only has their “one vote” just like everyone else, they are placed in a position to “entice” people to vote a wealthy man vote, to vote what in “his” best interest.

        This an fine and good if it’s in everyone’s best interest, and often it is.

        But just as often it is not! ~ There is long term gains and short term gains and losses to consider.

        Example; The Health Insurance Providers should be pleased with “more” customers. But they are not! They enjoy anti-trust immunity and was working on short term gains. To heck with tomorrow, tomorrow will take care of itself. ~ But in truth, it wasn’t taking care of “today” much less tomorrow.

        But that all depends on “WHO” was being taken care of doesn’t it?

        So the wealthy employee people to represent them and their self interest. They buy politician, Media of all kinds, to get the word out to all us little people and help us make up our minds. The power of money is very, very effective. It’s propaganda, grains of truth, hidden in buckets of mature.

        If you feel you need to defend the wealthy and vote their vote, that’s your business. For the last 30 years that’s what we have enjoyed. Remember tax cuts to the wealthy generate wealth and more “JOBS”!

        I personally will vote “my” vote and let the wealthy struggle along for himself. From the most recent earnings reports out, I don’t see that he needs anymore help then what he’s already bought and paid for.

        You folks need to be careful about what you swallow.

        Where is William Buckley when you really need him? ~ I miss him.

      • Normal Guy

        Jana

        This practice was very close to violating the constitution.

        Issues of government involvement with religion are often disputed because of the Establishment clause in the First Amendment. While the free-exercise clause allows for this type of event to be organized by non-governmental bodies, the U.S. Congress may not pass any laws enforcing religious observances.[

        Thomas Jefferson comment on Adams proposal. On January 23, 1808 he wrote:
        “Fasting and prayer are religious exercises; the enjoining them an act of discipline. Every religious society has a right to determine for itself the time for these exercises, and the objects proper for them, according to their own particular tenets; and right can never be safer than in their hands, where the Constitution has deposited it. …civil powers alone have been given to the President of the United States and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents.”

        In 1822, James Madison wrote:

        “There has been another deviation from the strict principle in the Executive Proclamations of fasts & festivals, so far, at least, as they have spoken the language of injunction, or have lost sight of the equality of all religious sects in the eye of the Constitution. Whilst I was honored with the Executive Trust I found it necessary on more than one occasion to follow the example of predecessors. But I was always careful to make the Proclamations absolutely indiscriminate, and merely recommendatory; or rather mere designations of a day, on which all who thought proper might unite in consecrating it to religious purposes, according to their own faith & forms. In this sense, I presume you reserve to the Govt. a right to appoint particular days for religious worship throughout the State, without any penal sanction enforcing the worship.”

      • denniso

        Janna and many others don’t understand that a belief in God IS religion. All religions have a belief in some god or ‘deity’…that is what religion is. Many people are confused in thinking that religion is only Catholic,Protestant,Hindu or Muslim,etc, and it’s only specific types that the constitution and the founders wanted to keep out of gov’t. No, religion is a belief in a god or other deity that can’t be seen or touched or identified absolutely or has to be taken on ‘faith’,and is often only accessible through appointed leaders,ministers,priests,shamans…

        Religion is prohibited from the gov’t by the constitution..simple…

      • Jana

        Normal Guy,

        I am answering this because of your statement and I quote,” Do some research on your beliefs; the founding fathers were not in favour of religious influence on our government.— When in actuality they were not in favor of any organized RELIGION to be imposed on the public.

        Of course Congress may not pass any laws enforcing religious observances. And, Thomas Jefferson was correct in this. He NEVER stated he was against any religion, he stated, “ civil powers alone have been given to the President of the United States and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents.”

        You are taking this to think that he was AGAINST religion even in the Government.

        While Jefferson was Governor of Virginia, the Continental Congress sent a circular to the state executives recommending a day of public thanksgiving.[1] Jefferson sent the circular to the Virginia House of Delegates which wrote out the actual proclamation and sent it for his signature.[2] Jefferson signed this proclamation for a day of “Thanksgiving and Prayer” to be held on December 9, 1779. It must be remembered that the governor of Virginia at this time was a relatively weak office. The General Assembly formulated policy, not the governor. This proclamation did not establish a permanent annual observance.
        When Jefferson was President, he expressed some hesitancy to endorse proclamations of this sort. Jefferson wrote in a letter to Reverend Samuel Miller on January 23, 1808, in response to Miller’s proposal that he “recommend” a national day of fasting and prayer: “I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises…Certainly no power to prescribe any religious exercise, or to assume authority in religious discipline, has been delegated to the general government. …But it is only proposed that I should recommend, not prescribe a day of fasting and prayer. That is, that I should indirectly assume to the United States an authority over religious exercises, which the Constitution has directly precluded them from…civil powers alone have been given to the President of the United States and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents.”

        Normal, you must be careful not to take his hesitancy to mean rejection.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Lawyers are like the unions. They were both good ideas at the onset, but they both went the wayside of crookedness, greed and debauchery. Now they both suck.

      • ToolGirLisa

        Yep. “Modern Day Lawyers!” Ya think???

      • iowaheretic

        To Jana: Thomas Jefferon also said “Question with boldness even the existence of a god, because if there is one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear and faith.” And he also said “Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions any more than our opinions on physics or geometry.” And he also said “The christian god is a being of cruel,vindictive,capricious and unjust character.” And his BEST QUOTE by far is “To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul,angels,god,are immaterial,is to say they are nothings, or that there is no angels, no god, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise…without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and phantams. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence.”

      • Normal Guy

        Time

        Lawyers who signed our Declaration of Independence:

        Caesar Rodney, Edward Rutledge, Francis Hopkinson, George Read, George Ross, George Walton, George Wythe, James Smith, James Wilson, John Adams, John Penn, Richard Henry Lee, Richard Stockton, Roger Sherman, Samuel Chase, Samuel Huntington, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Thomas McKean, Thomas Stone, William Hooper, William Paca

      • JeffH

        We cannot expect the Lawyers’ Party to provide real change, real reform or real hope in America. Most Americans know that a republic in which every major government action must be blessed by nine unelected judges is not what Washington intended in 1789. Most Americans grasp that we cannot fight a war when ACLU lawsuits snap at the heels of our defenders. Most Americans intuit that more lawyers and judges will not restore declining moral values or spark the spirit of enterprise in our economy

      • ted crawford

        Have you ever heard of a man named John Jay, Normal? He was our first Supreme Court Justice. He clearly stated his beliefs when he said ” The Law was ment to serve man, man was not ment to serve the Law”
        It’s very obvious that the Lawyers of that day were far, far different than the Lawyers governing us today!

      • Normal Guy

        Ted

        So the law is enforced inappropriately today compared to how law was enforced in the past. Care to show any evidence on how our rule of law has been eroded? How is the statement ” The Law was ment to serve man, man was not ment to serve the Law” not appropriate today.

        The position that all the lawyers today are corrupt is just plain ridiculous. I happen to think that most Americans are good people, I don’t think that everyone who is a lawyer is a subclass, or that all politicians are a subclass.

        This one dimensional position like most opinions expressed on this site show a great deal of Naivety, do some work confirming your position because frankly it is childishly ignorant.

      • denniso

        Without thousands of lawyers willing to fight gov’t abuse of our rights over the centuries we would look like Nazi Germany by now or be continually involved in bloody revolution…of course, many rightwingers seem to enjoy the prospect of bloody revolution and could get their wish someday if they restrict what lawyers can do in fighting for our rights every day.

      • Average Joe

        Normal Guy says:
        April 20, 2010 at 10:29 am

        Not a problem,Here you go:

        Historical Outline

        1st: Martial Law is declared by President Lincoln on April 24th, 1863, with General Orders No. 100; under martial law authority, Congress and President Lincoln institute continuous martial law by ordering the states (people) either conscribe troops and or provide money in support of the North or be recognized as enemies of the nation; this martial law Act of Congress is still in effect today. This martial law authority gives the President (with or without Congress) the dictatorial authority to do anything that can be done by government in accord with the Constitution of the United States of America. This conscription act remains in effect to this very day and is the foundation of Presidential Executive Orders authority; it was magnified in 1917 with The Trading with the Enemy Act (Public Law 65-91, 65th Congress, Session I, Chapters 105, 106, October 6, 1917). and again in 1933 with the Emergency War Powers Act, which is ratified and enhanced almost every year to this date by Congress. Today these Acts address the people of the United States themselves as their enemy.

        2nd: The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 created a “municipal corporation” to govern the District of Columbia. Considering the fact that the municipal government itself was incorporated in 1808, an “Organic Act” (first Act) using the term “municipal corporation” in 1871 can only mean a private corporation owned by the municipality. Hereinafter we will call that private corporation, “Corp. U.S.” By consistent usage, Corp. U.S. trademarked the name, “United States Government” referring to themselves. The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 places Congress in control (like a corporate board) and gives the purpose of the act to form a governing body over the municipality; this allowed Congress to direct the business needs of the government under the existent martial law and provided them with corporate abilities they would not otherwise have. This was done under the constitutional authority for Congress to pass any law within the ten mile square of the District of Columbia. Follow this link to see the effect of the District of Columbia Act of 1871.

        3rd: In said Act, Corp. U.S. adopted their own constitution (United States Constitution), which was identical to the national Constitution (Constitution of the United States of America) except that it was missing the national constitution’s 13th Amendment and the national constitution’s 14th, 15th and 16th amendments are respectively numbered 13th, 14th and 15th amendments in the Corp. U.S. Constitution. At this point take special notice and remember this Corp. U.S. method of adopting their own Constitution, they will add to it in the same manner in 1913.

        4th: Corp. U.S. began to generate debts via bonds etc., which came due in 1912, but they could not pay their debts so the 7 families that bought up the bonds demanded payment and Corp. U.S. could not pay. Said families settled the debt for the payments of all of Corp. U.S.’ assets and for all of the assets of the Treasury of the United States of America.

        5th: As 1913 began, Corp. U.S. had no funds to carry out the necessary business needs of the government so they went to said families and asked if they could borrow some money. The families said no (Corp. U.S. had already demonstrated that they would not repay their debts in full). The families had foreseen this situation and had the year before finalized the creation of a private corporation of the name “Federal Reserve Bank”. Corp. U.S. formed a relationship with the Federal Reserve Bank whereby they could transact their business via note rather than with money. Notice that this relationship was one made between two private corporations and did not involve government; that is where most people error in understanding the Federal Reserve Bank system—again it has no government relation at all. The private contracts that set the whole system up even recognize that if anything therein proposed is found illegal or impossible to perform it is excluded from the agreements and the remaining elements remain in full force and effect.

        6th: Almost simultaneously with the last fact (also in 1913), Corp. U.S. adopts (as if ratified) their own 16th amendment. Tax protesters challenge the IRS tax collection system based on this fact, however when we remember that Corp. U.S. originally created their constitution by simply drafting it and adopting it; there is no difference between that adoption and this—such is the nature of corporate enactments—when the corporate board (Congress) tells the secretary to enter the amendment as ratified (even thought the States had not ratified it) the Se3cretary was instructed that the Representatives word alone was sufficient for ratification. You must also note, this amendment has nothing to do with our nation, with our people or with our national Constitution, which already had its own 16th amendment. The Supreme Court (in BRUSHABER v. UNION PACIFIC R. CO., 240 U.S. 1 (1916)) ruled the 16th amendment did nothing that was not already done other than to make plain and clear the right of the United States (Corp. U.S.) to tax corporations and government employees. We agree, considering that they were created under the authority of Corp. U.S.

        7th: Next (also 1913) Corp. U.S., through Congress, adopts (as if ratified) its 17th amendment. This amendment is not only not ratified, it is not constitutional; the nation’s Constitution forbids Congress from even discussing the matter of where Senators are elected, which is the subject matter of this amendment; therefore they cannot pass such and Act and then of their own volition, order it entered as ratified. According to the United States Supreme Court, for Congress to propose such an amendment they would first have to pass an amendment that gave them the authority to discuss the matter.

        8th: Accordingly, in 1914, the Freshman class and all Senators that successfully ran for reelection in 1913 by popular vote were seated in Corp. U.S. Senate capacity only; their respective seats from their States remained vacant because neither the State Senates nor the State Governors appointed new Senators to replace them as is still required by the national Constitution for placement of a national Senator.

        9th: In 1916, President Wilson is reelected by the Electoral College but their election is required to be confirmed by the constitutionally set Senate; where the new Corp. U.S. only Senators were allowed to participate in the Electoral College vote confirmation the only authority that could possibly have been used for electoral confirmation was corporate only. Therefore, President Wilson was not confirmed into office for his second term as President of the United States of America and was only seated in the Corp. U.S. Presidential capacity. Therefore the original jurisdiction government’s seats were vacated because the people didn’t seat any original jurisdiction government officers. It is important to note here that President Wilson retained his capacity as Commander in Chief of the military. Many people wonder about this fact imagining that such a capacity is bound to the President of the nation; however, When John Adams was President he assigned George Washington to the capacity of Commander in Chief of the military in preparation for an impending war with France. During this period, Mr. Adams became quite concerned because Mr. Washington became quite ill and passed on his acting military authority through his lead General Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Adams was concerned that if war did break out Mr. Hamilton would use that authority to create a military dictatorship of the nation. Mr. Adams averted the war through diplomacy and the title of Commander in Chief was returned to him.
        (See: John Adams, by David McCullough, this book covers Mr. Adams concerns over this matter quite well. Mr. Adams was a fascinating man.)

        10th: In 1917, Corp. U.S. enters W.W. I and passes their Trading with the Enemies Act.

        11th: In 1933, Corp. U.S. is bankrupt, they force a banking holiday to exchange money backed Federal Reserve Notes with “legal tender” Federal Reserve Notes the Trading with the Enemies Act is adjusted to recognize the people of the United States as enemies of Corp. U.S.

        12th: Some time after 1935, you ask Social Security Administration for a relationship with their program. With the express purpose of generating Beneficiary funds to United States General Trust Fund (GTF) the Social Security Administration creates an entity with a name (that sounds like your name but is spelled with all capital letters) and an account number (Social Security number). They give you the Social Security card and let you know that the card does not belong to you but you are to hold it for them until they want it back. If you are willing to accept that responsibility over the card you activate the card by signing it, which gives you the ability to act as the fiduciary for the cards actual owner Corp. U.S. and you can use the card’s name and number to thus transact business relations for the card’s actual owner. You are also to note that though the card verifies its agency (you as the single person with authority to control the entity so created) it is not for use as identification. On review: notice the Social Security Administration was the creator of the entity, they offered you the opportunity to serve its Trustee capacity (by lending it actual consciousness and physical capacity), they gave you something (the card) that does not belong to you to hold in trust and they reserved the actual owner of the thing (Corp. U.S.) as the beneficiary of the entity—by definition, this only describes the creation and existence of a Trust. More importantly: the name they gave this Trust is not your name, the number they gave the Trust is not your number and your lending actual consciousness and physical capacity to this Trust’s Trustee capacity does not limit you or your capacity to separately act in your natural sovereign capacity in any way—what you do, when you do it and how you do it is still totally up to you.

        13th: In 1944, under the Bretton Woods Agreement, Corp. U.S. is quit claimed to the International Monetary Fund, and becomes a foreign controlled private corporation.

        14th: In 1962, considering the states were forced to carry out their business dealings in terms of Federal Reserve Notes (foreign notes), which is forbidden in the national and State constitutions, out of the necessity the states began protecting themselves from the people by forming corporations like Corp. U.S. Accordingly, those newly formed corporate state administrations began adopting Corp. U.S. suggested uniform codes and licensing structures that allowed better and more powerful control over the people, which thing the original jurisdiction governments of this nation had no capacity to do. Our Constitutions secure that the governments do not govern the people rather they govern themselves in accord with the limits of Law. The people govern themselves. Such is the foundational nature of our Constitutional Republic.

        15th: By 1971, every State government in the union of States had formed such private corporations (Corp. State), in accord with the IMF admonition, and the people ceased to seat original jurisdiction government officials in their State government seats.

        Now, having stated these historical facts, we ask you not to believe us, but rather prove these facts for yourself. We then ask you to contact us and share your discovery with us.

        When you find there is no error in this historical outline, then remember these simple facts and let no one dissuade you from the truth.

        The Bottom Line: when you speak about these private foreign corporations remember that is what they are and stop calling them government.

        Further, it is very important that we cease to attempt to fix them. It is far more important that we learn how to reseat our original jurisdiction government and spread the word about the truth. By reseating our State and national governments in their original jurisdiction nature, we gain the capacity to hold these private foreign corporations accountable. They owe us a lot of money, in fact they owe us more money than there is available in the world. In fact it is impossible for them to pay and that gives us the leverage we need to take back our nation and put things right. The process is a simple one. The difficulty is in getting our people to wake up to the truth. That’s why we ask you to prove the truth for yourself and contact us with your discovery.

        That means that you must stop acting and communicating like you are anything other than the sovereign that God created you to be. And, stop referring to Corp. U.S. or the STATE OF ‘X’ as anything other than the private foreign corporations that they are. And, finally, stop listening to the Bigfoot Patriot Mythology that is espoused by those that only give these facts lip service.

        It’s time to wake up and follow the truth, time to repent and become a moral and honorable society instead of lauding our Piety while we stand guilty of:
        a) not knowing the truth;
        b) not living the truth;
        c) believing God will save us even though we have the tools to know the truth the ability to use the tools but we refuse to live by the truth and use the tools we have to save ourselves and thereby become free.

        The biggest problem with those that get all excited about uniting against the tyranny of Corp. U.S. is that they are blind to the truth having no remedy so they bail out of “the system” hell bent for a rebellion even the scripture says cannot be won with conventional weapons of war. Would that we could instead follow the admonition of the King of Kings and unite with truth to legally, lawfully and peacefully reseat our original jurisdiction government thereby taking back the control our nation in accord with law.

        BTW..the “we” described above is us…patiently waiting for your response…good luck on finding any fault in the timeline of events…and please dont just read for 15 mins and tell us you researched…..we want factual evidence (source material). You come here often, you spew your beliefs…now is your chance to pt up or shut up. Any reply that you make should be in regards to the material presented to you…anything else will be ignored (As you are only trying to skirt the issue). have fun.

      • Normal Guy

        Dim Joe

        Well now that I have stopped laughing and gotten off the floor, you really think that this idiotic cut and past from rightwing, lack of intellect sights, are worth anyone’s time. This pile of trash has been floating around for a long time, it really should just be flushed.

        Joe, Joe, Joe you need to learn that having read something does not make it true, before you post ridiculous garbage and challenge people to disprove it verify whether it is true or not. This crap is beyond idiotic, it is very funny that you think it carries any weight at all.

        Oh just for the fun of it here are a number of pieces disproving point one.

        In the United States martial law must be ordered by the President as commander-in-chief and must be limited to the duration of the warfare or emergency. It cannot result in a long-term denial of constitutional rights, such as habeas corpus, the right to a trial, and to free press. Constitutionally suspending Habeas Corpus requires congress to approve.

        When President Abraham Lincoln and the Union army used Martial Law in various states to restrain behaviour by civilians both in the war zones and eventually in areas far removed from battle such as Ohio and Indiana. This virtual independence of military courts from supervision by civilian courts raised troubling questions; after the war, the U.S. Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan (1866) severely limited its application by the federal government and precluded it where civil courts functioned.

        Justice David Davis, a Lincoln appointee and a longtime friend of the slain president ruled that the administration’s course had been wrong after all. “Martial law cannot arise from a threatened invasion,” but only from a real one. “Martial rule can never exist where the courts are open, and in the proper and unobstructed exercise of their jurisdiction.” This had clearly been the case in Indiana in 1864, as even the government’s lawyers admitted.

        The key to Martial Law is the suspension of Habeas Corpus, this is where your rights to be brought before justice is revoked, it was restored in 1866 with the Milligan decision.
        Just so you are not confused, after the Civil War the implementation of Martial Law was challenged and the courts ruled that it was unconstitutional, this declaration alone would suspend martial law. This incidentally is why Lincoln would not respond to Justice Taney regarding the Merryman case in 1861, if the court was allowed to rule they could have challenged Martial Law and Lincoln felt that it could result in succession succeeding.

        The courts imposed restrictions on Martial Law after Milligan making Martial law much more restricted. In short we are not living under Martial Law. You are funny – in a pitiful kind of way Joe.

      • Average Joe

        So, in other words…you didn’t do the research…and cannot prove me wrong….your “opinion” has nothing to do with facts…period.In the future…as you tell everyone here….do the research…show me your sources….or continue to talk to people that actually believe your factless bantor…As usual…you spout off with nothing to back up your claims….everything in my post can be verified …unlike your post…..skirting the issue…just as I predicted… you call people names and insult thier intelligence….while having none of your own…nice job….. I guess if that is the what you have to do to feel better about yourself, go right ahead.I have come to the conclusion that you…are a waste of my time…a valuable commodity that can never be replaced…I feel robbed

      • Normal Guy

        Dim Joe

        So I guess that you did not read where I completely disprove point 1 regarding Martial Law. Sorry I guess more than one paragraph is beyond you. I’m sure that your time is to precious to read for more than two minutes. $6.00 an hour?

      • Average Joe

        Normal Guy says:
        April 20, 2010 at 10:30 pm,

        Mr. Knowitall has spoken again….bow down all yea unworthy to wash his feet. I have noticed that you answer everyone here with you usual condesending attitutde. You my friend (Term used loosely…very loosely) are a legend…in your own mind.
        Actually I make considerably more than that as a Registerd Land Surveyor.Should I venture to guess that you are either a lawyer or someone in banking? That would explain your beliefs….you know everything about everything and the rest of the world are complete idiots…..go pound your chest in front of the mirror…maybe you’ll feel better about yourself.Some of us ain’t buying the BS…Narccism is a sickness….seek help….Go ahead…I know as usual…you have to get the last word in….

      • Average Joe

        Normal Guy says:
        April 20, 2010 at 10:30 pm,
        BTW, You know as well as I do that there hasn’t been a constituionally recognized court in this nation ( except in Hawaii) since 1938 (Erie Railroad Co. v. Tompkins, 304 U.S. 64 (1938), was a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States in which the Court held that federal courts did not have the judicial power to create general federal common law when hearing state law claims under diversity jurisdiction. In reaching this holding, the Court overturned almost a century of federal civil procedure case law, and established the foundation of what remains the modern law of diversity jurisdiction as it applies to United States federal courts.
        Of course this was done in reponse to our NEW colorable money….since Article 1 sec. 8 did not appy to fiat currency. We must have colorable law to deal with colorable money. All actions since 1938 have been dealt with under “public policy”…not Law. Please tell us what three types of courts are recognized by the constitution?
        Next, tell me what type of courts exist in the US at this time. Good day sir…..May you someday find the peace you seek.

      • Normal Guy

        Joe

        Where did you find this little gem of misconstrued conclusions?

        The case exists of course but your linkage to “no federally recognized court in the land”??? Fiat currency had nothing to do with this case or this decision. What does your nonsense sentence mean?? “All actions since 1938 have been dealt with under “public policy”…not Law”. Come on Joe this is beyond naive, who told you this?

        I have had enough of your ridiculous statements and questions just go and do you own research. Erie simply redefined how the federal courts deal with the law. The result state laws of the location the court sits in, I understand what this means you clearly don’t – go look it up it has nothing to do with fiat, there are federal courts this just applies to diversity cases (go look this up, hint it means that if the litigants are not from the same state). Just to show you, again how ridiculous what you state is, the Erie case was about an injury, Harry Tompkins was hit by an object projecting from a train, diversity applied and The district court, following the federal law at that time, applied neither New York nor Pennsylvania common law, but instead applied federal common law, the decision was that that was wrong.

        Therefore, the federal court was required to apply the law of whichever state it was sitting in, as though it were a state court of that state. Of course, this was a very difficult decision for the Court because overruling Swift (the previous precedent) meant a huge number of opinions by the lower federal courts were no longer valid law.

        However, the Court did not declare the Rules of Decision Act itself unconstitutional. Instead, it reinterpreted the Act so federal district courts hearing cases in diversity jurisdiction had to apply the entire law, both statutory and judge-made, of the states in which they sit.

        Thus, although the Erie decision itself does not identify specific provisions of the Constitution violated by Swift, the language of the decision implies that Swift had stolen powers reserved to the states, in violation of the Tenth Amendment.

        Now I have a business to run and as much fun as it is to see all these completely unfounded fears based on complete misunderstanding and, sorry Joe, but ignorance, I have to go. See you later.

      • Normal Guy

        Time

        Lawyers who signed our Constitution:

        Alexander Hamilton, Gouverneur Morris, James Wilson, Charles Pinckney, John Rutledge, Roger Sherman, William Samuel Johnson, George Read, Richard Bassett, Rufus King, Jonathan Dayton, William Livingston, William Paterson, Jared Ingersoll, Gunning Bedford, David Brearly, John Dickinson, John Blair

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Ok, so you know some old history, good for you. You can look things up, Im proud of ya. Lawyers who screwed things up and got it all wrong – Marvin Miller, Johnny Cochran, F.Lee Bailey, and many more. How many murderers did these guys set free? How many millions of dollars must we pay our atheletes, to where I myself cannot afford to go watch a game? Lawyers, the armpits of society. One hundred of them at the bottom of the ocean – Well thats a good start.

      • Normal Guy

        B.

        What is your point? All lawyers today are bad. Is that it, so what should we do all lawyers up against the wall?

        What is it you are saying?

        All the laws of the land are wrong. No one to interpret the constitution, etc. maybe we should leave all the legal stuff up to you, sounds to me like you are the genius that could make it all work. No courts, no contracts, no lawsuits… easy right. You can make it all better, I feel so much better now.

    • Mike In MI

      So-o-o right, JeffH,

      It sort of puts the old saw about, “We are a nation of laws,” in a new – dark – light. I propose that we should demand a law that Congress be able to meet no longer than six months from May to October. The less they are allowwed to be in session the less damage they can do.

      • denniso

        ‘Politics of envy’??? No, the Dems and liberals believe that we shouldn’t have a society(like most 3rd world countries)that has a small percentage of extremely wealthy people at the top and a large
        percentage of working people scraping out a subsistence living at the bottom. A huge income gap w/ millions living in poverty does not result in a healthy society,even for the few at the top. Violence, expence for prisons,court systems and larger police forces all visit themselves upon the entire society as well as the rich.
        So no, it isn’t class envy that drives us to work toward a more fair and just system, it’s pragmatism about what can work for all and concern for those much less fortunate than most of the rest of us.

      • TIME

        I will take this one;

        Dennis, oh dear Dennis, what do you call the middle class, are they the ones scrapping out a living?

        I think not, but are going to be – as thats what your sweet little BarryO wants to do to us in the Middle class, {as in remove us.}

        Think of it as – so there is a “Working Class” thats the nice way of saying “SLAVES” to the State, and the Ruling class, thats your sweet little BarryO’s gang of marxist.

        Thats your two class man you think is so special, per your post day after day about BarryO’s ~ NESS.

        But be that as it may – The facts are that at this point in time the Government is the single largest employer in the United States.

        Yet these employes make an average of $129.900.00 per year, thats more than the persons working in the privet sector with an average of $49.500.00 per year.

        let alone the fact that Government employes have an average benift package of $41.900.00,
        YET – the persons working stiffs in the privet sector have an average benift package of $4,250.00.

        Now the whats and whys;
        The PRIVET sector pays the TAX’S so that the Government can hire employes. Yet the persons who are working in that area are making less than Government employes in both yearly wages and benifit packages. So hows that going work out in the long run? Its not!

        So your bud – BarryO wants to increse Government jobs, the question is who is going to pay for them?

        You rail on and on about the wealthy, yet the “wealthy in the US have less money than the mass combined sum of the Middle class” in the US.

        As in if you were to take every cent that the wealthy have it would not cover the “Governments payroll for a single year.”

        And as for all the special entitlement gang, well I have said this before and I will say it again, {90% of them if you gave them a million dollas} – “they would be broke in less than 12 months”.

        So rather than the Vitriol you post – day in and day out, please learn of what you speak.

      • Harold Olsen

        I’ve never been sure exactly what was middle class. I always thought I fit into that category, but I guess I don’t. I make around $25,000 a year, give or take. I noticed that, here in Seattle anyway, if you make less than $40,000 you qualify for low income housing. So, I guess that means I am low income–in other words, poor. However, during the Clinton years, it was pretty much established that there was no middle class,only wealthy and poor–though he did raise taxes on the middle class and then blamed the Republicans for “forcing” him to do it. If you had a job and paid taxes, then you were wealthy. The poor were those who didn’t have a job or pay taxes. One member of his administration defined it even more. The wealthy was anyone making twenty thousand dollars or more.

      • shasta

        THANK YOU TIME, Well said!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Time,
        One thing missing from your post. How many of those government employees got laid off last year? I’m not talking city government, I’m talking national government. How many millions from the private sector got laid off last year and took a lower paying job and by doing so, are helping pay the salaries of these government workers?? Why should these people be the only ones immune to being laid off???

      • Claire

        JoeH– I thought this info was interesting– 6 IDOT employees were fired because they had porn on their computers at work. They deserved what they were dealt, especially since I am a taxpayer.

      • John

        But it is politics of envy and a pandering to a progressive populist notion that the system is somehow not fair. I’m sure glad that the people who built this great nation weren’t restricted with such socialistic ideas. Why are the rich rich, and why are the “less fortunate” as you call them such? In America anyone can be what they want to be given our freedoms, but those are freedoms with responsibility. If one is responsible and has the drive, there is no reason they can’t have what they want. Your Utopian view destroys incentive and innovation, why strive if we all are to be equal? We all have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results. Thomas Jefferson said, “Everyone has a natural right to choose that vocation in life which he thinks most likely to give him comfortable subsistence. No thanks denniso, I”ll rely on myself to determine my lot in life.

      • denniso

        You’re just repeating the same old simplistic mantra of Repubs and it’s essentially meaningless. The rich? Something like 1/2 of the wealthy in this country are so through inherited money,not hard work.

        You want to rely on yourself? No one, Bill Gates nor anyone else creates their wealth in a vacuum. W/o the structure of the whole society that has been paid for by most Americans, you couldn’t create wealth. Roads,police protection,courts,national defense,the labor pool,education,hospitals,university research and more all create a reasonably civil,educated and safe society that allows for us all to work,save and create some degree of wealth. Almost all of the wealthy
        like Gates and Buffet say exactly that.
        Think about it rather than just condemn the point out of hand.

      • John

        denisso, I doubt that you realize it but you proved my point. The points you make about our society being open to anyone to “create some degree of wealth” certainly doesn’t sound like the socialist model you propose. Wealth in this country was indeed created, not in a vacuum as you implied I said, but by the hard work and responsible actions of those wanting to make a better life for themselves. I have to wonder how the “less fortunate” made it back during America’s early years? They worked and created wealth without government intervention and brought to this land a country that the world envied. As in any society, there are those who progressives label as “less fortunate” who would rather exist off the labor of others, the “doers”, “the evil rich” of our society. It’s not some political mantra I cite and your attempt to paint with broad strokes is very revealing. It rather comes from viewing life from my personal perspective. Through the years I have watched as the government has become more intrusive, demanding more from my labors to give away to those who feel entitled to my modest wealth. I’ve worked hard all my life and am proud of what I have accomplished, and it galls me to see others reap from my labors through yet another entitlement. Instead of being determined to be accountable for my own life, perhaps I should just lay down and become another entitlement leach. There would be parity if everyone were to do that, but America as we know it would be long gone. No incentive, no innovation. Take the easy road and live off the rich mans wealth until his money is gone or he leaves the country. Call everyone “Comrade” and stand in line with them for my government hand out. I believe that has been tried before…

        The Soviet Union has fallen, not through military action but rather economic action. Communist China is becoming more capitalistic by the day. Europe and the Euro is in shambles because of socialistic economic policies. Look at the states within our country who are failing. California, New York, Michigan to name a few. All having been governed for years by Democrats who have overloaded the system with entitlements and excessive taxation to pay for those entitlements, all in the name of “fairness”. Social Security is broke, Medicare is beyond repair, progressive programs…

        Take away the incentive and you break the will to succeed. Poor people cannot hire anyone, and that parasitic segment of our society which you call “the less fortunate” are fast becoming more numerous thanks to the very entitlements you and progressives hold dear. My question to you is are we really helping them or shackling them with the yoke of a repressive government in the long run? No shackles for me denisso……

      • MikeC

        Great post, John!

      • laura

        John,
        Very well said.

        GOD BLESS AMERICA

      • denniso

        John…you don’t sound like a ‘compassionate conservative’. You begrudge the pittance of a handout to the poor and imagine it shackles them to a repressive gov’t.I’ve asked this of ‘conservatives’ before w/ no rational response,but I’ll ask again.
        Do you complain about and brand as a shackle the billions of $$ of your and my tax dollars going to corporate welfare? Rich ranchers and farmers,defense suppliers,airlines(all of whom wouldn’t exist w/o gov’t subsidies),giant mining corporations who get our land and minerals for virtually free,nuclear power plants that get cheap liability insurance,again w/o which they wouldn’t exist since private ins would be prohibitively expensive….

        No, you and all ‘conservatives’ don’t complain about the billions in corporate welfare, because it’s subsidizing business and corporations,the lifeblood of ‘conservatives’. But you sure can complain and scream about a repressive gov’t shackling people when it tries to help them and their kids live a slightly improved life w/ the hope the kids will escape the actual shackles….deep poverty and no ‘American dream’.

      • Average Joe

        denniso says:
        April 20, 2010 at 9:49 am
        John…you don’t sound like a ‘compassionate conservative’.

        It is just that most of us believe that charity comes from the heart….not from the barrel of a gun (figuretively speaking). Most of us do not belive in corporate welfare. Most of us believe that a man should be able to start a business and build it without any interference from anyone and then either succeed or fail based soley on how he runs his business. What the *government? does , is to stifle business and inovation by “leveling” the playing field…you cannot compete if everyone is playing handicapped.We would just as soon they stay out of the private sector and allow the state and local governments handle “regulation” of business. At least that way…if you aren’t happy doing business where you are…you can always relocate to someplace better suited. When regulation happens on a national level….there is no place to go….because everyone has to play by the same rules…Federal=Bad=Stagnation…….State and Local=Good=innovation/competition. I don’t know about you, but I would rather see my “tax” dollars spent locally, on local projects rather than have the Federals allotting a portion of it back while keeping the rest for themseves….how about cutting out the middleman…the Feds…..Then after we have taken care of our own, we can send them the scraps…instead of the other way around…..
        Get involved locally, elect constituional people in your city…county…state etc……work from the inside out if you truly want to see change in this nation…the answer is a near as your next door neighbor….spread the word! Try looking into Sheriff Richard Mack and the Oathkeepers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJgPuNAh60

      • denniso

        Average…you want voluntary charity,OK, then how about we make it voluntary to donate to the military if we feel like it? How about voluntary charity for police protection? Maybe voluntary payments to medicare and social security?
        Most gov’ts have decided after centuries of experimenting and trial and error that it makes practical sense to help the poorest people
        in order to have a healthy society that benefits all…lower crime rates,lower drug use,lower costs for prisons,and a generally stronger and more productive society.
        It isn’t rocket science…societies have figured this out way before you started complaining about it. If we leave too many people at the rock bottom of society living in slums and ghettos and raising kids
        who repeat the pattern, it comes back to bite us all in the butt…not to mention the Christian ideal of helping the poor,and voluntary charity has never been enough help.

      • JeffH

        A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true.

      • Average Joe

        denniso says:
        April 20, 2010 at 8:55 pm,
        I believe that if you READ the U.S. Constitution, you will find that Defence of the Nation is covered in that document. As for police,firefighters etc….they are paid for with your local taxes…or are these things of which you know not? Medicaid and medicare are TAXES…which believe it or not….the government has the right to impose (what if I do not wish to participate in medicaid and medicare?….I still have to pay the tax…whether I use the services or not, because it is a tax). When you are talking healthcare….you are in a whole different ballgame. Nowhere in the Constitution is congress given the power to force anyone to purchase anything that they to not wish to purchase. Nowhere in the Constituion is the congress given the power to decide your health care choices and nowhere in the Constituion does it say that you have the right to health care or the right to someone elses labor. But of course I can’t expect the hopey feely left to understand the difference between “Rights” and “Needs”. Everyone NEEDS health care, but no one has a RIGHT to it…unless they pay for it.Does everyone have a right to free carcare? Free Gas?(after all we are guaranteed the right to travel).When you force someone to buy something under threat of fine, jailtime or both…that amounts to coersion…AKA Strong armed robbery… which would be a crime for most of us…that is NOT charity.

      • JeffH

        Time & John, so eloquent and direct. I suspect that you both will be met with a barrage of negatives, with talk of Bush, Reagan and the party of “NO” and quite possibly Cheyney and Palin. I doubt, though, that there won’t be any negative remarks about the Marxist or the Democratic Socialist Party’s intent to destroy free markets, demonize anyone and anything that doesn’t get on their their bandwagon, government expansion, bank takeovers, control of industry and the control of the nations health care with 1/6th of the nations economy, 400% rise in out of control spending and, last but not least, bankrupting America and Americans. I realize these points could be meaningless to some here and the attitude that two wrongs “DO” make a right.

      • Chaos Factor

        I laugh everytime I hear the talking point” I want to go back to our founders constitution”…. The constitution of our founders said Black people and women were not allowed to vote or be in politics….in other words rights weren’t equal…

      • laura

        C.F,
        I’m not understanding your point!!!
        You speak of a different time where people thought differently.We do not think that way now and yet you keep bringing up the very distant past, for what?

        GOD BLESS AMERICA

      • http://naver samurai

        CF (certain foolishness) here we go again. What would be wrong with getting back to the ways of our founding fathers? What’s the matter? Would your monthly welfare checks stop coming and you would have to work for a living? I’ll tell you what, if you can give me a factual source to back up what you’re saying I’ll believe you.

      • ted crawford

        A thought, perhaps worth your consideration Chaos. Our Founders were intelligent men, they did their best to establish a quality government to meet the needs of the people. They weren’t, however, narsasstic! They understood that they would not be able to anticipate all future needs of the society,so they included Artical 5. As a result of their vision we have 27 amendments to their original document. All of the issues you mention were corrected by these amendments. This is the proper way to address any grievance we have.

      • Mike

        The big falacy in this assessment is that the slices of American society by income or wealth is not static as presented as dogma by the left.

        The low tax, free market model that has served the US so well over the decades has in fact resulted in lots of migration among the 3, 4 or however many “classes” of society the left like to propose. Immigrants come here not to go no the dole, they take great risk to make the trip from Vitenam, Peru or whereever, for a chance to build wealth for themselves.

        Buffet and Gates are Democrat supporters so like Soros they pitch a different view but for the real story just look around you. There are countless Vietnamese and Hispanic immigrants in your communities who in one generation becaame successful small business oweners, as a minimum. Look at your own families. For some of us the first guy off the boat didn’t even know english and showed up with the equivalent of a backpack and no ticket home. Read the book titled the Milionnaire Next Door. It blows away the myth that we live in the stratified society pitched by the left.

        The escalator in a free economy goes both down and up. Its almost a cliche that some of the children of hardworking wealthy parents never learned the lessons of hard work, thoughtful risk taking and frugality that led to their parents success. So, in another generation or two that wealth has been dissipated foolishly and these individuals now are counted in a much lower “class” than their parents. They are also likely to be leftists wanting to be taken care of by those like their parents who lived productive lives. Poverty to wealth then back to poverty in 3 – 4 generations.

        OK, let’s use the Death Tax to confiscate the wealth of the hardworking family to prevent it from being passed on to undeserving children. Don’t you love that one – the central government is doing something the Founders never envisioned stepping in to protect children from their parent’s generosity.

        No wonder the notion of Death Panels can be envisioned as the end state of Obamacare. It makes such good sense. . . unless you grew up in America.

      • John

        Well said Mike…

      • TIME

        Mike, Some very strong points.
        If you don’t have a “Dream and DRIVE” or “the very will to make it” no one will or can make it.
        When you do the work and earn the reward it makes it all the better. You also have to know that its a 50/50 and anything can happen.

        You have to see the big picture, you have to find something that you do well, something you LOVE to do, and work it.
        If you work it hard and stong, you will get your slice of the pie.

        Never envy anyone. Just DO IT on your OWN.

      • Claire

        Time– I agree with what you say. If a person has the determination, and they are doing something they love to do, then the sky can be the limit. It will take some work, but it will be worth it in the end. A person only lives once, and it is up to that person to be the best they can be, and live life to the fullest. Enjoy the beauty and majestic grandeur of the earth and all that God has given us. Material things mean nothing, it is “life” that is so important and once it is over, it is over. I thank God for my precious husband who has been by my side for 50 years, for my son and daughter, for my family, my friends, and my dogs. (Can’t leave out my dogs) I am able to look back and think “Thank you God, for my life and all you have given me. I am not the richest person in the world moneywise but I am rich in the things that count in life.

      • Rob Alexander

        3rd world countries are NOT “3rd world” because their governments don’t redistribute wealth – they are like that because their governments DO – and as ALL governments who are allowed to do this do, including ours, they progressively redistribute more and more of it to themselves and their cronies.

        The worst off countries are simply the ones whose governments redistribute the most wealth, and the best off ones are the ones whose governments redistribute the LEAST – and protect the RIGHTS of their citizens the most – especially their right to live free and right to own what they secure for themselves (property). For clarity’s sake, that’s rights as in “the right to live unimpeded by others as long as you do not impede others”, not entitlements to receivership.

        Even in the best case scenario, there will always be a very small wealthy class comprised of the most successful, sometimes lucky, and innovative people – AND there will always be a very poor class comprised of mentally ill and incompetent people…. and EVERYONE ELSE ~should~ be middle class – not rich, not destitute, but able to live comfortably through some kind of productive work.

        Before the socialist Democrat** policies of over-regulation, wealth redistribution and racial warfare took hold, America had the largest and most prosperous middle class in the world – in terms being used here, this means a very high percentage of those who SHOULD be middle class actually WERE “able to live comfortably through some kind of productive work.” **The RINO class of Republicans are just as responsible for this as democrats.

        Now, that trend is reversing and gets worse with every new redistribution they come up with. It’s high time for intelligent people to recognize this clear and obvious pattern and reverse their thinking. Redistribution of wealth simply DOES NOT WORK and actually has the complete opposite effect of what is claimed – it redistributes people who WOULD be middle class on their own into the poor class. The only thing that works and has ever worked is when the government enforces contracts, and protects rights to person and property and otherwise stays out of the way – THIS is when societies as a whole become richer.

      • denniso

        3rd world countries have an extreme gap between the very few wealthy and the vast majority who are very poor,living in slums. How is it that wealth is distributed to the slum dwellers yet apparently not enough to get them out of those slums and scavenging in landfills for their living…you’ve got to be kidding w/ your little theory.

      • Rob Alexander

        It’s not a theory, doll….

        If you look at the biggest ****hole countries of the world, for example in Africa and the middle east, their governments DON’T redistribute wealth to the slum-dwellers, they steal and redistribute most it to themselves and their cronies…. Which is really where most of the redistribution in all countries, including ours, actually goes – ours obviously steals less than the worst of them do, but both the percentage of our incomes they steal AND the percentage of what they steal that gets diverted to “other recipients than the claimed purpose” has gone up and continues to, while our standard of living goes down.

        Ask yourself “why do the countries that redistribute the most have the worst standards of living, while the ones that tend to leave the people alone and simply provide a ‘safe and predictable environment’ for them to help themselves have the highest standards of living?”… This is an absolutely rock solid, provable correlation – not a theory – the only question even worth asking is “why is it that way?”…. Another worthwhile question you should ask is “how and why did the country whose government had the least power over its citizenry of any in the world surpass every other country in wealth, technology, and overall standard of living in WELL under 200 years?”.

        Really, it’s pretty ridiculously obvious to anyone who actually THINKS about it openly.

      • denniso

        Rob…haven’t you ever looked at a list of countries and where they are on quality of life? Look it up if you haven’t. America lags behind all the more ‘socialistic’ countries in all measures…life span,infant mortality,murder rates,rape,drug use,mental health,environmental protection,child murders and more. Sure we lead
        the world in overall economic activity, we have the 3rd largest population and a large country w/ huge natural resources. Not surprising that we lead the world in money made.

      • Rob Alexander

        Those statistics are too easy to slant to fit an agenda. Look at home size, acreage of land owned, number of vehicles in a household, luxury items owned, etc. Americans live FAR better than the average Euro by those standards. I do not consider living in cramped city dwellings and relying on public transportation to be an upscale life.

      • K D M

        Um er yeah, but if you look at the Democrats what they are actually doing is pushing down the middle class and pushing up the politicians and big business that helps them keep down the middle class like Unions.

        You are going to get an even smaller group controlling all the money and a much larger group of poor with no middle and no opportunity to better yourself.

        I’m sick of giving much more of my money to the poor and needy than our president does and hear him talk about taking care of the poor. The government can not take care of everyone. They need to stop trying to do it all and focus on what is needed to promote honest business and a good market economy where entreprenuers are rewarded for good products and services and everybody benefits. Are you willing to pay more for a good product? Shouldn’t you get more for doing a better job? Let’s stop villianizing people who make a honest profit. (I’m not suggesting that all businesses and entreprenuers are honest and do the right thing and should be able to do so – we need laws and regulations to prevent abuse – but not to control the market.)

      • JeffH

        K D M, if the Dems and Obama get their wishes, a family of four, making $125,000 will see their tax increased approx. $5800/yr.
        A family of four making $75,000 will see an increase of approx. $2800/yr. These are just projected 2015 figures based on the repeal of Bush tax cuts, govt. mandated health care, and other tax exemptions being repealed plus new taxes. So much for “NO NEW TAXES”!

      • Mike In MI

        denniso – a response to his post at 8:30 on 4/19 way bck at the top of this line

        The development of the 2 caste system

      • Mike In MI

        denniso – a response to his post at 8:30 on 4/19 way back at the top of this line

        The development of the 2 caste system in this country that you decry so bitterly above is a relatively recent phenomenon. The third world nations are already just what ours is being purposely turned into – two tiered. The thing that we have in common which is the primary cause of two tiers is a devilish bunch of goons controlling a top-down-authoritarian, centralized government system. The things the extreme liberal philosophies say they try to discourage (one caste of elite rich people at the top and subsistence grovellers’ caste on the bottom) is exactly what they establish in actuality BY THEIR PROGRAMS. It has happened repeatedly in history so they have the theater production down by now. The only thing that changes is the players. Today’s star is B.H. Obama leading a caste of millions.

        Traditionally in our nation we have had a thin veneer of rich people at the top, a poorer lower group of variable thickness and a very large middle class because they could (and did) start out wherever they were and build up from there to as high as they could go or wanted to rise. They worked together in their communities to achieve together – ever hear of a guy called de Toqueville (sp.). He travelled throughout the colonies and was amazed at the community spirit in early America. Large representations of middle class people have always been the rule in this country, except in the larger cities with aggregations of new or vulnerable immigrants, large Catholic or authoritarian church denominations and crooked city and state government power cliques. Progressive Obamaism has decimated America’s middle class, producing a largely two caste social system. So, you are about as wrong as you can be, denniso.
        Your problem denniso is you love the romantic idea of being able to say, “I’m searching for the truth.” It probably worked good in college to flop the flippin’ floozeys but it don’t work in the real world. Why? It has been said by someone who knew the Truth, “Seek and you shall find.” The “YOU SHALL” makes it absolute. So, if you were really searching you would have found it, denniso. Maybe I can say it plainer, “You’re a fraud, denniso.” But that’s not news to the regulars here.

      • JeffH

        Mike In MI…I’m bent over in pain from laughter…amd well stated.

      • Rob Alexander

        Thank you, that’s essentially what I was saying and it’s nice to see someone else who truly “gets it”. -Rob

      • denniso

        Mike…you say that progressive Obamaism,whatever the hell that is, has decimated the middle class. Wow! He’s been in office for 15 months and he’s already wrecked the middle class. Of course,Bush’s 8 yrs and economic collapse didn’t hurt the middle class,did it?

        Have you noticed that Obama gave you and almost all Americans a $400 tax cut and $800 for a couple?

        Most of your comment is too unintelligible and convoluted for me to follow,or is it just meaningless? So, no further response from me.

      • JeffH

        Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
        Ronald Reagan

      • denniso

        Mike…so do you actually believe that Jesus is the only guy who ever searched for the truth in life? Out of the billions who have lived on this earth,only Jesus looked for answers and the truth?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Do you not know denniso, that what Obama and the dems just did with healthcare, made the insurance companies billions upon billions more dollars than they ever had before. This wasnt for the so called poor people, it was for the choice insurance companies that the dems are in bed with, so dont you be fooled. And it is the working man like, me that are going to pay more for my premiums, and have less coverage. It is people like my 85 year old father, who will get less medicare or medicaid, and have less coverage now. It is the single working mother, who never could afford insurance before, now being forced to buy it, and if she doesnt, she will receive a huge fine. If you dont believe me, then you are fooling yourself, because this is exactly what these lepers have done. It benefits their rich insurance cronies, who dump millions in their pockets, and the rest of us pay for it. Oh yeah, it does benefit the crack dealer down at the corner, who now can get it all free, since he doesnt have a job, but for the working class, its going to suck. Watch and see, this is how it is.

    • Harold Olsen

      I wonder if it’s just a coincidence that the word “lawyer” sounds similar to “liar.”

      • Palin12

        Know what you get when you cross a crooked lawyer with a crooked politician? Chelsea!

      • JeffH

        OOOOOH! Low blow! Accurate, but still a low blow…

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I thought it was an unsatisfied politician who preyed on every woman that came by because the crooked lawyer was ugly.

    • Tone

      Take it from someone that has spent the last 25 years working in the factories. We produced more than all of the other industrialized nations COMBINED and the corporations profited more then they ever did. Yet our pay has gone down in relation to the cost of living, our benefits have been cut while the cost of those benefits have skyrocketed, the gap between the rich and the poor has gotten bigger and bigger, and our jobs have been shipped overseas, and now the right has the nerve to call us lazy, the audacity to say we just want had outs, and worst of all we are told if we don’t like it to go move elsewhere! HOW DARE YOU!!

      Try to understand this. We loved Ronald Regan and we believed in his economic policies they made the nation thrive. When he spoke world powers fell. I can’t even begin to explain how great it was to be 20 years old in 1985! The saddest part is that it should have worked and it would have if the corporations had reinvested in America in the same way that the workers produced for the corporations. But the corporations got greedy and tried to take the money and run.

      We wont let the corporations control us anymore then they already do. If it comes down to a choice between corporate slavery or socialism we will chose socialism but we don’t like it anymore then you do. If republicans can’t find a way to get the corporations to reinvest in America then you are useless to us.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        No sir. The corporations had the living life taxed out of them by Bill Clinton, while he enacted NAFTA and shipped all their jobs to Mexico. Had he left the business’s alone, they would have had cash to keep expanding and hiring more people, but the democrats screwed that all up. Clinton rode the success of Reaganism for 6 years before it caught up to him, as the last two were a hell hole. Off course, when youve got the liberal media in your pocket, what with being owned by the democrats and all, none of this truth was reported, so you uneducated point your fingers in the direction the media tells you. One day maybe you will be interested in the truth, and you will seek it, and you will find it, and see what damning things Bill Clinton did to this country.

    • H Lee Poteet

      Except for the curious fact that both Barack and Michelle have been forced to give up their law licenses. Fancy that! But they and those like them are going to do everything they can to protect lawyers before they consider any other group of Americans.

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