Taking what Bush did right?? OK, joe, list some things that the biggest fool of a president we’ve EVER had, did right.. I’m waiting!

Denniso,

I’ll start the list with 1) prevented terrorist attacks on our country for 8 years, and 2) got Congress to pass tax cuts that actually did stimulate the economy until the recent financial crisis triggered by the sub-prime disaster…..

George
1. We really can’t equate Bush with the absence or presence of further attacks on the US. Also, how about the shoe bomber? Also, how about he loss of over 4000 service men and women not to mention the trillion dollar price tag.
2. The tax cuts were needed to stimulate a weak economy. But the large tax breaks to the super wealthy did little to help. The huge deficits run up during the Bush years will be with us for a long time, and with interest payments, will offset any gains from the cuts.
Let’s not forget the few good economic years (2004-2007) were paid for by the worse recession since 1929.

Norm,

I might agree with you on point number one if I didn’t know that Bush had our military and intelligence services chasing these terrorists around the world. That kind of aggressive action helped to keep them off balance so that it was harder for them to plan an attack on our country.

On your second point, Bush did do something to fix the situation which worked, unlike the political pay-offs the current administration is doing which won’t stimulate a darned thing. Bush should have been more aggressive in vetoing lavish spending bills coming out of Congress. That’s something you and I might agree on, except that if he had, then I suspect the libs would have accused him of throwing grandma out of her house and starving little children. As to the debt we won’t ever pay-off, a lot of his debt was incurred fighting a war. These kinds of debts do eventually end, whereas debts incurred for things like health care reform and cap & trade probably won’t. And, what’s the connection between the good years during Bush’s term and the current recession? That was triggered by the sub-prime mortgage debacle, a pet program of Clinton, Barnie Frank and other lib pals in Congress.

George,

If everyone in this country were as nice, considerate, & polite & had as much common sense as you do, this country would be a much better place! Thank you for the nice reply to my comment about Bush’s Air National Guard service & pilot training.

The current administration with all its unconstitutional, liberal, progressive shenanigans has made me a person that I barely recognize!

I know Bush & Cheney weren’t perfect, but, as you said, they kept us safe for almost 8 years. Despite what the “other side” thinks, we were in fairly decent shape economically with the tax cuts, until the 2006 elections & the House & Senate became a majority of liberal progressives & the likes of Barney Frank telling Bush that FNMA & FHLMC were in great shape! That’s when the housing market started down the toilet! When you compare Bush & Cheney to the current administration, Bush & Cheney should have haloes!

usmadgirl,

Thanks for your kind remarks. I would hope that sites like this would inspire thoughtful, respectful, and informed debate, rather than childish verbal rock throwing. I just believe it’s very difficult to convince people holding opposing views of your views when you start out calling them incendiary names, like “idiot.” I see that a lot, unfortunately.

Each of us have our biases through which we filter information to arrive at opinions. Sometimes our opinions are totally correct, but more often they are at best only partially correct since we don’t have all the facts on which to base those opinions. My personal bias is based on my Texan, Southern, Christian, conservative background. I freely admit that, and realize it may cause me to arrive at incorrect conclusions from time to time. I think it would be wise for each of us to realize we may not be correct in all of our conclusions because in the absence of facts, we assume things as we attempt to “connect the dots” of information that we do have.

I think it would be good for us to consider that we should be Americans first, before we are liberal, conservative, libertarian, or other political affiliation. And, I believe we all want what is best for America, so I think it would help us get there if we would try to be respectful of each other’s opinions and encourage open, respectful dialogue on these serious subjects. I may disagree with some of the opinions of my liberal colleagues on this site, but I don’t hate any of them, and I hope they don’t hate me.

I will continue to participate in these dialogues as long as I can continue my learning on these topics. Fortunately, so far I have learned useful things from all sides of these arguments, even though I’ve had to frequently hold my nose to get through the information. I ask that we all work together to make this a site where we can civilly air our thoughts, theories, opinions, and facts when we have them.

usmadgirl,

Back to the central subject. Here’s a site I finished reading this morning which may shed some light on why there’s so much corruption in our Congress. This is the transcript of an interview Bill Moyers had with a couple investigative reporters regarding the big banks’ influence over our Congress. I rarely agree with Bill Moyer’s on anything, so the fact that this came from one of his interviews gives me more confidence that it’s mostly correct. If this is correct, it sounds to me like the problem is much larger than either political party, difficult to fix, but very serious for our country. I hope you find this informative:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01082010/transcript1.html?iframe#pt2.

denniso

bush kept this country safe for seven years and this buffoon you and your comrades voted in has turned that around in less than one. i’m not a defender of bush, but, he sure had a lot more class and intelligence than your glorious leader. mccarthy was right!!

chuck b
More intelligence and class????
Surely you jest!

Huh!

Chuck : Where did Jr have his intelligence and uh uh uh uh class hidden? I really searched for it and found nothing to grab hold off.
I did hear him put a wheelchair bound gentlemem down for not standing to greet him at one of his hand picked public speaking tours. And on another time he rediculed a gentleman for wearing sun glasses (never mind he could not tolerate the bright lights) George Jr accused him of being on dope,. Now that’s class Bush style. When you look like as A$$. sound like an A$$ it behooves one to try to make others look the part.

DD,

You mean when Biden told Chuck Graham, who is in a wheelchair, to stand up. Or perhaps its when Obama said that “he didn’t know what something was in Austrian”, which is not a language. Or when he said that he had been in 57 states. Maybe your talking about when Obama said that he “saw fallen hero’s here today” while talking to a crowd on Memorial Day, don’t you just hate it when those ghost show up. Or perhaps its when he accused the Cambridge Police of “acting stupidly” after he said that he didn’t know the facts of the story. Or even when he said that Chavez came into power because of Bush, when in fact, Chavez came to power in 1998 during the Clinton administration.

Yes, all hail the intellectual of partial facts & half truths.♦

Clinton sent very few men to their deaths and was opposed morally to the vietnam war. Bush/Cheny were and are still pro war, for other peoples kids. Kerry served in vietnam and the swiftboaters lied to get Bush elected. Murtha likewise served. It’s one thing to be opposed to unethical or illegal war..it’s another to be a warmonger and hide from it yourself, like Bush/Cheny the cowards did. The term is chickenhawk. I say murdering cowards.

OK, I think I understand. If you’ll just tell me that you put Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Truman, JFK, and Lyndon Johnson in the same category with Bush and Cheney, then I’ll understand that it doesn’t matter which political party is involved, you’re just opposed to war, regardless. Of course, I can’t agree with that point of view, but I’ll respect you for being constant regardless who’s President.

So, Dems-Ho, do you mean the same John Murtha who said that the troops were “killing women & children in the middle of the night” and the same John Kerry who said about soldiers that “‘they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.”.
I suppose you think that we should not have gone into Iraq & just let the UN handle it all. Like we have with the genocide in Darfur, how many friends have we made by sitting on the side lines and letting the regime rape, torture & kill its own people. Maybe the UN will help like they did in Sierre Leone, where they were raping woman & children. And you know that whole “Oil for Food” scandal had nothing to do with opponents in the UN from putting more pressure on Saddam.
Just keep telling yourself, Bush/Cheney are evil & if it weren’t for America everything would come up sunshine & loolypops.

Alright, Chuck.
And don’t forget Red Grange, Vince Lombardi, Joe Louis, Dimaggio and the Hunchback of Notre Dame?

narvick

you made the toast to the republican party and their cowardly president, so i am saying the demo’s haven’t got a lot to brag about, you better go back and take a second look. apparently you don’t know who got us in ww2, vietnam, korea, yeah! you apparently served in the marines so you say. well there’s a lot of us that served in the so. pacific in ww2, whats that got to do with it? my family lost every male of our family line that was old enough to serve in ww2, marines, army, navy with the exception of me. so!

You’re kidding, right?? Blaming Democrats for getting us into WW 2? You think we should have stayed out and let Hitler take England and all of Europe?? You can’t be serious!!! And, we had advisors in vietnam before Kennedy was elected..who put them there?? Ike, a repub.

What Branch of the Service were you in and where did you Serve or see combat? I Served with the 5th Marine Division and was injured on Iwo Jima. And, Yes, I do say! A fact that I never said had anything to do with anything, as you suggest it did!
You presume, and wrongly so, that I didn’t know who got us in WWII, Vietnam or Korea. I have always held that anyone who “presumes” is either too lazy or too incompetent to verify!
I deeply regret the loss of your family members in the Service of this Country. May God Bless them. What outfit did your Marine family member Serve with and where did he see action? On what ships and in what areas of the South Pacific did your other family members Serve?
Thanks.

I don’t believe that George W. Bush could qualify as a Forklift Operator let alone as a jet pilot.

narvick

why not? you believe obama is capable of running the country.

My statement was about Bush. How did Obama get into it?
I make a statement about my not believing that Bush ever qualified as a jet pilot.
You respond with what I believe about Obama!
I fail to see the connection!

Narvick,
That’s because you are blind after being kicked in the head by the donkey!!!!

chuck b,

You know that’s not true, Liberals don’t believe anything, other than that they are entitle to free stuff paid for by someone else.

Mr. Naas,

George Bush was a pilot in the Air Force Reserve, and he did fly military fighter jets. That’s a fact.

If you don’t think GWB was as qualified as he should have been to be our President, that’s OK. I wish our current President were more qualified as well. Unfortunately, we only had a couple of choices in each election, and the majority of our fellow Americans decided that these were the best qualified candidates. So, as bad as we think these guys may be, they were thought to be the best choices at the time. If we’re not getting the best people to run for this office, then that’s a different problem to deal with.

Take care.

George,
It is Documented that Bush was definitely not a pilot in the Air Force Reserve.
He was in training as a pilot in the Inactive Texas Air National Guard. There is a significant difference. It is also documented that the Texas Air National Guard was closed to enlistments, but Bush chose to utilize family(political) influence to get himself “leapfrogged” over some 150 of those Texans already waiting in line for their turn to join an Inactive, and not likely to ever be Activated, Texas Air National Guard Unit. George was in! With family help, he was now able to Evade and Avoid any Active Military Service!

Political News – July 9, 2004
Pentagon: Bush Military Records Destroyed
WASHINGTON – Military payroll records that could more fully document President Bush’s whereabouts during his service in the Texas Air National Guard were inadvertently destroyed, according to the Pentagon.
In a letter responding to a freedom of information request by The Associated Press, the Defense Department said that microfilm containing the pertinent National Guard payroll records was damaged and could not be salvaged. The damaged material included payroll records for the first quarter of 1969 and the third quarter of 1972.
“President Bush’s payroll records for those two quarters were among the records destroyed,” wrote C.Y. Talbott, of the Pentagon’s Freedom of Information and Security Review section. “Searches for back-up paper copies of the missing records were unsuccessful.”

To Evade and Avoid any possibility of Military Service thru
legal maneuvers and to obtain deferments. This, of course, was the choice of Dick Cheney.

For those who wish to avail themselves of the Facts, they are there for the looking. For those who wish to confuse and confound others as they themselves are confused and confounded, Facts are to be avoided.
For Facts would only reveal just how confused and confounded they actually are!

Narvick,

I’m confused! You bring up a topic of comparison & someone else does the same thing, then you say “I don’t see the connection”! Let’s see if I can make it clear – The connection (that Chuck B was bringing up)is: first, you said you didn’t believe that Bush could qualify as a Forklift Operator, much less be a Jet Pilot. Then Chuck B said “why not, you believe that Obama is capable of running the country?” It’s a comparison! If you actually believe that Obama is qualified to run this country, then you should certainly be able to think Bush could fly a jet, because Obama has never RUN ANYTHING & Bush actually TRAINED to fly a jet.

You called George Bush a “draft dodger”. How do you figure that? After he graduated with a BS degree from Yale in 1968, he enlisted in the Air National Guard. Maybe you think that the Air National Guard isn’t important or maybe a “safe service”. At the time Bush enlisted to become an F-102 pilot, the F-102 was serving in combat in Vietnam. In fact, pilots from the 147th FIG of the Texas Air National Guard were routinely rotated to Vietnam for combat duty under a program called “Palace Alert” from 1968 to 1970. Palace Alert was an Air Force program that sent qualified F-102 pilots from the ANG to bases in Europe or southeast Asia for periods of three to six months for front line duty. Bush was still in training & not yet qualified with his 500 hours of training when he requested to participate in the “Palace Alert” program & the program was winding down & not accepting new applicants. Bush’s flight instructor said he was one of his best students & ranked in the top 5%.

As for Cheney, at least he legally applied for deferments, but I guess you think that it would’ve been more patriotic to dodge the draft by going to Canada like Bill Clinton did! In case you don’t see THIS connection, it’s another comparison! You might be surprised at all the people who filed for deferments. If you want to see more Vietnam draft deferments (not dodgers), go to this site: http//:www.nndb.com/event/806/000140386/

You obviously think that George Bush is an idiot! Why is that? Is it because he’s a Christian with moral values & doesn’t believe in killing the unborn. Or maybe it’s because of his southern accent? I’m from the South & proud of it & although I’m a decent speller & do my best to use correct grammar, you’d think Bush was from the North if you heard me “tawk” (that’s Southern for “talk”), but I’m certainly NOT an idiot!!!

I tend to disagree with your opinion of Bush. Did you know that George W. Bush’s college grades were higher than Al Gore’s? Did you also know that he scored higher on his military IQ Test than John Kerry? I know that comparing him to goofy Al the-sky-is-falling-&- the-Earth’s-core-is-a-million-degrees Gore & flip-flopping-military- troop-bashing John Kerry doesn’t impress ME, but since they are probably YOUR idols, then it should be embarrassing for you to know that Bush, the person you deem to be an idiot, is smarter than both!

usmadgirl,
Right! You are confused!
As would anyone be who tried to make sense of your verbal maundering.

usmadgirl,

That was great! From one Southerner to another, thanks a bunch. I think you made some very well thought out points in your argument.

Narvick,

Your last several posts had no reply, but in response to your comment to me:

“Right! You are confused! As would anyone be who tried to make sense of your verbal maundering”.

It’s not my fault that you can’t read or understand the comments I made. They’re in VERY plain & simple English! For YOU to call ME ‘confused’ is laughable!

madgirl,
It is widely known that madness seeks relife through laughter.
So laugh as you will!

These Cheny lovers can’t stand the idea that one of their party’s heroes is nothing but a lying and cowardly blowhard..the only thing he’s honest at is smirking and scowling..he’ll go down in history as a pathetic manipulator of his sheep.

No argument there, denniso.

Joe,
I don’t take any exception to your dislike of Democratic politicians or anyone else. It seems that this is part of the game that is played in these forums. I do, however, take exception to your statements about the VA. I have never had other than the very best of care from the VA for the injuries I incurred on Iwo Jima in ’45. This care was extended to me no matter who “was in there”. Care that I continue to receive from the VA for the Disibility that is due to those injuries. Look at the records on how the Bush administration ignored the sub-standard and deplorable conditions our returning wounded and maimed Vets had to endure at Walter-Reed Hospital. Conditions that were finally brought to light, not by Bush, but by an investigative reporter!
I might ask you, Joe, what Branch of the Service were you in and for how long? Also, when and where did you ever seek medical care from the VA that you did not receive it and/or found it to be inadequate?
If anyone “stripped the service to bare bones” and left our Troops under supplied, ill equipped and with vehicles that lacked the proper armor to protect its personel from IEDs, that person, sir, was D. Rumsfeld under Bush!
You presume, and wrongly so, that I support anyone. I do not support anyone that does not have the best interests of this Country and its Citizens at heart.
I would recommend that you do a little “unbiased” research before you start flailing about blindly about events you hold such “biased” and unrealistic opinions on! Your unsupported statements remind me of a quote by Mark Twain: “It is not what one knows that causes problems; it is what one knows that isn’t so that causes problems.”
Tom Nass
5th Marine Division – WWII

kilrntex,
Let’s not forget that mr. O-man “won” the Nobel prize!! Yeah wright!! he was nominated 5 days after taking office!! He sure earned that!!!! Wow! What a man!!! Next they’ll find a way to award him the CMH!!!!

killer…you are in serious need of some good therapy..after that,try reading something other than rightwing crap and watching some actual news..you are really out to lunch…

kilrntex,
I agree with most of what you say however, your name “kilrntex” and the brash way in which you present your arguments provides the likes of Denniso the ammunition he needs to easily disarm you.

With all due respect sir, Neville’s Chamberlain’s country and most other countries in the world stood-up to Nazi Germany LONG, LONG before the United States got involved.

Curtis,

My reading of history is that Great Britain and France declared war on Germany when they invaded Poland in 1939. The United States didn’t declare war on Germany until after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor in December 1941. My original point was that Neville Chamberlain appeased Hitler while the German’s violated the Treaty of Versailles, invaded the Rhineland, invaded Czechoslovakia, and invaded Austria between 1936 and 1939 before drawing the line. This gave Hitler time to build up his military strength and gain confidence that they could challenge other armed forces. Had the UK and France acted earlier, they might have deterred Hitler’s advances before he inflicted the enormous damage that he eventually did. Anyway, that’s my view.

Many western businessmen and gov’s were making money off of Hitler’s arms build up…many were supporting Hitler early because he was the counterweight to growing socialism around the world resulting from the dire straits of the depression, and we know how capitalist biz people feel about socialism…if the western world hadn’t aided and abetted Hitler early on, he would never have become the threat he became. His success and the whole disaster was partly the result of an hysterical reaction to socialism, especially from the great industrialists who got regular people to fight their battle.

Denniso,

Humm……interesting assessment. I had heard that there was a lot of sympathy for Hitler and Germany prior to the war in both the UK and the US. I also heard that there was a lot of sympathy for communism and socialism in the US during the darkest days of the depression. I guess it’s natural for people to open up to alternative ideas when capitalism goes into a negative cycle. However, since FDR was President when we got into the war and he was a socialist, or at least willing to adopt socialist ideas, I have trouble seeing how the industrialist were responsible for getting us into the war.

Sure, lets not forget how France stood up to Hitler. Now what color was that flag? And I’m not sure, but how was that whole WWII thing going for all those countries before we got involved?

Just a piece of info for you. Did you know that the National Bird of France is a Cockerel (which is a chicken) ? Figures doesn’t it.

Not just “Sometimes”, it is “Always” better to stand up to tyranny than to appease, or tolerate, it.
Tom Nass
5th Marine Division – WWII

Amen.

You are so funny, That is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard from a 6 yr. old. How old are you?

OK, so Cheney wants to sell his book and make money doing it. What’s wrong with that? I believe that’s usually what people do when they write a book, isn’t it?

How do you know that Cheney illegally or unethically took money from Enron or Halliburton? Please share this information with all of us so we can get in line to properly criticize him as well.

George,

I can answer that, Dee D doesn’t know anything about what Cheney did with Halliburton. If she did, she would be aware that it is documented that Cheney gave all of his profit from Halliburton to charity (which would seem like a waste if money was all he was after). Nor did she know that in 2006 Cheney gave 7 million dollars, more than any other public official, to charity. And the only thing that Dee D knows about Enron is that the CEO, Ken Lay, had a meeting at the White House, as many company’s have, like GM and all the bank executives have had with the Obama White House. It is just more opinion with no real facts to back them up.

Mr. Nass,

I honor your service in the US Marine Corp. I’m sorry, but I do disagree with you on this one. Maybe we can find agreement on another subject. Best regards.

George Elliott
4th Marine Division – Vietnam

George,
When facts become of no consequence in any discussion, any further discussion becomes of no consequence!
Semper Fi and God Bless the United States Marine Corps and all those who Serve, have Served and will Serve in it!
The 4th Mar Div was with us on Iwo.

Mr. Nass,

Thank you sir. We are Americans first, but just hold different political perspectives. That’s OK, because in the end we both love our country and want the best for it. I have your back Marine, and may God bless you and all US Marines.

Semper Fi

Narvik…great toast to the Bush/Cheny lovers. Doesn’t it boggle the mind that people can be so blind and ignorant at the same time?

George,

You are too nice of a person. As a Vet I respect all that serve & have served to defend our great Nation. With that said though, when someone denigrates what our troops have done by stating half truths & partial facts, just to attack Bush/Cheney, then that’s where I draw the line. All these people who want to say that Bush/Cheney are just War Profiteers & Warmongers, that all they were after was oil, never want to talk about the 300,000 people found in mass graves that Saddam had killed, the Kurds that he gassed, the people that he had tortured by hanging them upside down & beating their feet & body with steel rods, the women that were raped or the people that had their hands cut off. Nor do they want to mention that Saddam invaded Kuwait & killed an unknown number of people for Kuwait’s oil or that he violated sanctions & wouldn’t let UN inspectors in.
How about the 3 million people killed in Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia when we withdrew from the Vietnam War, because of a bunch of Liberal Legislators & Liberal drugged up hippies dancing in the street. They want to point to the 5200 troops killed, which is tragic & my prayers go out to their families, which happened in the 7 years that we have been over there. They never put into perspective with the 209,000 casualties , 125,847 of which were Americans, that we had just during the Battle of Normandy during WWII.
Nor due they want to talk about how that “Evil” President Bush funded, more than triple any other President, aid to Africa to fight AIDS. Nor do they want to mention that Cheney donated more $7 million dollars, more than any other public official, to charity in 2006 or that all of his profit from Halliburton went to charity.
These are the same type of people who will say that soldiers are killing women & children in the middle of the night & denigrate their service by saying that they are fighting an unjust war. No matter that they have brought them out from under the thumb of a murderous dictator. They are just the “Doves” of the world that think that every war must have notorious reasoning behind it. They should just remember that, even if the meek do inherit the world, there will be a soldier behind them to protect it.

T.D.
USAF – survivor of a terrorist attack, Khobar Towers

Tinwarble,

I do try to be respectful. I think if we can get past the name calling it’s possible that we might be able to sort out what is theory and what is fact. Most of the allegations I read have been thrown out by the libs so many times that they actually believe they are fact and the rest of us are just plain dumb not to see them as such. You can construct theories about anything, and if they are based on logic, there are many people who will believe they are true. That is a useful political and propaganda tool. Unfortunately, everything that’s logical isn’t necessarily true, but I’m pretty sure everything that’s true is logical.

Anyway, that’s for the comments and criticism. You did a great job laying out some of the history for us all to reflect on.

Take care, and thanks for your service.

Tinwarble, Excellent post but I could list off a dozen or two horrors that occur in America every day.With this in mind I don’t think it’s good to lower our selves to the level of Madass Insane(killing-but for freedom) until we deal with our own daily horrors. America could use the resources (financial and human) right here at home to cure our own ills before marching off to police and teach the world.
America can’t afford this “White Night” attitude any longer.

Narvick,
And here’s to the democrat party that gave us such great people as mr. Jimmy Carter that got how many people killed during a messed up rescue attempt using untried aircraft( untried in conditions in the desert) and is now listed as the worst president in history in a close race with the big eared dumbo we have now. Also I would be amiss in not mentioning good ole’ slick Willie Clinton who, along with his beautiful(? wright!!!) wife Hellory demonstrated against this country on foreign soil AND avoided the draft!!! They were also accused of trying to steal everything not nailed down in the White House when they left!! Probably just wanted a few souvenirs, you know like all the GOOD hotels!!!

NOT a very convincing comparison, Joe. Carter was trying to rescue Am soldiers, Cheny was trying to kill them,as he did. Get real…

Dems-HO

Well, how about your buddy Clinton, deciding to bomb buildings with only janitors in them in the middle of the night, on the eve of his impeachment proceedings. What about the 20,000 bombs that he dropped on Serbia & Kosovo, what about all those innocent civilians that were killed.
And, no Carter didn’t send any soldiers to war, he just sides with Palestine & the terror group Hezbollah over the US & Israel.

Denniso, You’re saying Cheney went to war to kill U.S. Soldiers? I would like to see the evidence and proof to back up a serious charge like that one. I know you can because , as you say, you are the voice of sanity and reason amongst us crazy warmongers.

Jim….when you send soldiers into war,you know that some are going to die..when you have no choice,then you live w/ the sacrifice. When you do have a choice,as in Iraq, then you are willingly sending soldiers to their deaths. That’s why you don’t go to war unless you ABSOLUTELY have to and have ABSOLUTELY no other choice…that’s why you don’t go to war for personal vendetta or power plays..our kids lives should be more valuable than that!!

Denniso,

I’d like to jump in before Jim responds to your comments.

I agree that when you send soldiers to war, you’ve got to expect some of them to die. That’s why we shouldn’t send them to war whenever we can practically avoid doing so. Realizing that it’s not always practical to avoid war, that’s why we provide them with the best equipment, weapons, strategies, tactics, leadership, training, supplies, materials, and other support that we can so the fewest number will die in combat. Obviously, we’ve done an excellent job of this since the deaths experienced in recent engagements have diminished enormously from earlier wars. Also, when you train soldiers for war, you have to expect that some will be injured and some will die. The military is a dangerous business, so personnel shouldn’t volunteer without understanding the hazards.

I don’t think you want to wait to go to war until you absolutely have no other choice. When it becomes obvious to your diplomats that military conflict might not be avoided, the strategists need to start developing plans for military engagement. At some point, the President has to make the decision that military conflict cannot be avoided, at a cost we are willing to pay, taking everything into consideration. He/she then has the responsibility of determining the best time and method to begin the engagement to win as quickly as possible with the fewest casualties and least collateral damage. Waiting until there is no other choice, means going to war on the enemy’s terms. This would generally result in more American casualties and cost since the war would undoubtedly take longer to win.

George,

You make a very intelligent & insightful statement.

God bless you!

Tinwarble,

I thank you for that. Take care.

Hi Denniso, The way you worded your statement was that Cheny went to war to kill American soldiers. I asked for evidence and proof that that was his motive. You did not do that. We all know when soldiers go to war there are casulties. Do you honestly believe his motivation to go to war was to kill U.S. soldiers? When Carter sent Delta Force into Iran to rescue The embasy hostages(not other U.S. soldiers) There were also casulties, Using your logic, Did Carter authorize that opperation to get Delta Force personal killed?

Jim…you don’t get it?? If you go to war when you don’t have to,you are willingly sending soldiers to their deaths…when you are forced to go to war it’s quite different. What is so difficult to follow about that??

You said Cheney went to war to get U.S. troops killed. Your words. I said that is a serius charge, show some proof or evidence that shows his motive was to kill U.S. troop. ( it’s not our policy to have the VP declaire war anyhow) You didn’t show me any evidence of that. What part of show facts don’t you get? With your logic any leader who sends troops to war does it to get his countrys troops killed. Not to protect his people from the enemy. Did Jimmy want his Delta Force troops killed?

Joe,
Is that original or did you make it up yourself?

Very well stated Mr Narvick: Truth haters are running rather than face the music.

Narvick, I agree but let me point out that the Repubs and the Dems are both part of a system(UN/NATO/IMF/WHO etc.) that is keeping America and her Allies in a constant state of war and expansion.
Politics is the “SIDE SHOW” that keeps the public divided and busy to distract from the real truths.The general public thinks that with an election (HOPE?)and their favoured party in, things will change.They sometimes do change but it’s usually small details and the big plan stays the same overall.In the future you will be able to say negative things about the present administration just as you listed some of the shames of Bush/Cheney. It is almost as if America needs another revolution to take the country back from an increasingly Facist Ideology!

DD,

Are you talking about the 9/ll attack that was perpetrated by the same people that did the first Trade Center bombing, the attack on the USS Cole & the attack at Khobar Towers. The same people that did those things while Billy Bob was in office & did nothing to secure us from an attack. Hum, that’s curious, you didn’t say anything about how Billy Boy knew for almost 8 years about those people & and did nothing to protect us. Did you forget? Well, here’s your reminder.

Tinwarble: No I’m speaking of the 9/11 attack that took place on American soil and the Administration that could have possibly done something to prevent it seemed to be sleeping, wining, dining,and entertaining the financier’s family members while the fire and brimstone was falling onto the streets of new york along with the bodies of the dead. bin lauden’s darling family members were flown out of our country on 9/12 – in the early morning hours on our government planes. QUESTION is— Why were they here? Who was entertaining them and for what purpose? Got any answers?????? If so please share.

DD

Soooooooooo, what you’re saying to me then is, NO, you don’t know what you are talking about. If you did you then you would know that the same terrorist group that perpetrated 9/11 were also responsible for the Cole attack, the 1st Trade Center bombing & the attack on Khobar Towers. And that you didn’t know that Clinton was in office then & that he was aware that Bin Laden want to attack America. And apparently you have trouble adding too, because, even though my math may be fuzzy, I’m pretty sure that the 8 yrs. that Clinton was in office not doing anything to secure us, is a little bit longer than the 8 months that Bush was in office. So, you argument that it’s that “Evil Bush’s” fault, falls a little short. Maybe you should stop drinking so much of that Liberal kool aid

And if your counting on Obuttma to protect you from terrorist, you may want to think again. He can’t even keep anyone from crashing the White House parties. Yes, now we have another Gate Crasher.

Tinwarble: Obama is not a magician and it is impossible for him to cover each and every base. At least he doesn’t run and hide in bunkers or get as far away from the rubble as he possibly can. That’s more than I can say about the past administration.

So, you blame Bush for 9/11, but Obuttma gets a pass. Sounds like another uneducated opinion to me. And no, Obuttma wouldn’t hide in a bunker, he doesn’t have to hide from the terrorist because he’s one of them.

Tin..I actually thought you had more sense than to make such a stupid comment…Obama is a terrorist?? I wonder what ‘facts’ you have to back up that asinine and idiotic statement?? None, you fool!!

Hi Dee D,The terrorists who attacked us less than 9 mos. into the Bush admin. were in the country for 14 months before the attack. They snuck in during Slick Willies watch. They wanted to attack us before Bush took office, so you can’t blame it on him. I wonder what Clinton did to make them so mad?

Jim: I agree with you concerning Clinton and Hillary. They were in on the mix with George Sr and the plan advanced full throttle. Look how many trips Hillary made to Chins. See how Clinton doubled the Pres. salary. Alas tho, the voters were too smart. Hillary did not receive the 400,000.00 pay raise. Even some of the best concocked plans can fall along the way. However we will have the OWG shoved down our throat.

George,
Hell no he doesn’t!!! he3 just parrots what he reads on daily kos and Huff and toke!!!!

George…everyone knows what they did, they admitted to it and said it kept us safe. Now, trying to find classified info is a little tough when the gov’t doesn’t release such for decades, but if Shrub/Cheny said they did it for our safety, that’s good enough for me. Maybe you don’t believe your own people??

Denniso,

I guess if they said they did it, it ought to be published somewhere. Can you kindly point me to the document stating that this is the case? I don’t mean to be a Kool-Aid drinker by denying the obvious, but I’ve heard endless allegations from the left like this. This is a very serious charge, and I’d just like to get the “facts” before I agree with you. Thanks.

George,

In other words, No, denniso has no proof. There hasn’t been one, not one case were anyone has sued for a violation under the Patriot Act. It’s just more half truths & partial facts.

Gearge: Not much can be proven concerning performance records about the dirty duo. Since records were sealed and stashed away in Daddy Sr’s archives to be kept from public scrutiney.

Dee,

If you can’t prove your theories, then maybe you should just say “I believe this may have happened because…..”, and make your case. Leveling these kinds of serious charges against anyone, let alone our officials, is at a best very disrespectful, and at worst…..well, I’ll let you fill in this blank for yourself. Suffice it to say, I think this kind of unsubstantiated charge is out of bounds, especially for supposedly well educated people, even if they are liberals……

Denniso, so does that mean that in a few decades we can expect to find Obama’s genuine birth certificate, school records, thesis from Harvard and such and such?

DeeD, You said: “Records were sealed and stashed”
Obama’s secrecy practices make Madoff look like a kid who stole a candy bar.

George: It is very hard to prove any point when the necessary information has been placed under lock and key and kept out of the public eye. Never fear tho – it will surface and then a lot of people will be able to wipe the crow off their face. Then there will be those who will refuse to accept the whole truth even when it slaps them square in the kisser.

When it’s “proved” that we’re wrong about Bush/Cheney, then we’ll get in line to tar and feather them properly. Until then, we acknowledge that these accusations are based on theory, only. Also, until then, I for one would appreciate it if you would simply acknowledge that your accusations are your opinion, not fact. Thanks.

George, if you haven’t kept up w/ the news for the past 8 yrs,far be it from me to start your education now. I haven’t kept a file on the 2 cowards because it’s a waste of time in that you lovers of evil wouldn’t care if the facts were in your hand…you’re true believers and followers of the real axis of evil,Bush/Cheny/Rumsfeld and you won’t be swayed. If you care to look up info on actual news sites,you could learn the truth,but you won’t because it’s difficult and I’m not going to waste my time on you any more than I have already.

Denniso,

I have been pretty attentive to the news for many years, especially as regards the Iraq situation. It has only been alleged that Bush/Cheney lied about WMDs and took us to war for personal reasons. As you know, this has never been proven, much less seriously considered by any lawful authority. This is/was just a political game to discredit Bush/Cheney. Naturally, those who didn’t like Bush/Cheney latched on to these allegations and believed them to be true, but that’s as far as they’ve gotten. But then, you do know this, don’t you?

George. denniso says: If you haven’t kept up with the news for the last 8 years…like you can believe what the news reports any more or any less. It prob gets the real news from The Inquirer. Just as accurate as the MSM new reports.

So, in one post you are all for terrorist & dictators having WMD’s, then in the another you accuse Bush/Cheney of being evil. Hum, I wonder who is really supporting evil?

Tin…either you have no ability to comprehend what you read or you’re just clueless,or both.

George, Drive carefully,get your flu shots and watch your back.
You have demeaned their deaths! The examples you site are accidental or unpreventable by anyone and the soldiers were sacrificed for false
reasons .(don’t site any freedom crap to me)

Rod,

I certainly didn’t mean to demean anyone’s death. I sincerely apologize if anyone thinks that that’s what I did. However, I will point out that our troops were all volunteers, and from what I understand, most think the mission was worthwhile, although the length and number of deployments were tough….. Also, I was really just trying to put the number of deaths into perspective. The way I see it, 4200 deaths over an 8 year period for a worthwhile purpose isn’t all that big a price to pay when compared with 40,000 traffic accidents each year for practically no worthwhile reason. Of course, I wish there were no deaths for any reason, but life just doesn’t work that way. At least that’s my view. What’s yours?

Take care.

George, I have four family members that served or are serving in Iraq!!! ALL have told me it is worth it and they would be willing to go back to “complete the mission. All deaths there are hard on wives, sons, mothers, fathers and such and I will never make light of them and I don’t think from talking to you that that is what you meant to do for one second!!! I have read a number of your posts and I know you feel those deaths just like myself and most other Americans!!!

George…Rod James is right, and you of course didn’t count the more than 100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths, babies,women,old men,and it’s not over yet. You also didn’t count the 100,000 or so maimed and scarred for life American soldiers.

Denniso,

You are correct in that the Iraq war, like most wars, was a complicated situation. I didn’t count all those other people and casualties in my figures, but then I could have counted the number of Iraqi’s that might have died under Saddam’s rule (like the thousands of Kurds he killed before we entered the country). There’s probably no absolute way of knowing whether our going into Iraq had a better or worse long term outcome for the people of Iraq and the US, so I guess we’ll each just have to believe what we chose to believe.

Joe,

Thanks for the kind words. Also, thanks to you and your family for supporting this country like you do. This is how I think of patriotism. As usual, you and I are on the same page. Take care.

George…you say there’s no way to know whether our going into Iraq will be good in the long term or not….Well,the country has been bombed back to the stone age,car bombs all over the country,religious strife that kills and maims,no substantial oil revenues,no manufacturing to speak of,corruption galore,women being forced into burkas and afraid for their safety and forced out of the workplace,the country totally dependent on us for essentially everything…oh,but it’s been ONLY 7 years,right? Maybe in 20,30 or 50 yrs it will be able to stand on it’s own. Is that what you call good??

Denniso,

I don’t know how long it’s going to take for Iraq to get back on its feet. Actually, it’s my impression that Iraq is making pretty good progress right now. It seems to me that the biggest problems they’ve had since we’ve been there are political strife and infrastructure failure caused by insurgent attacks. It’s my understanding that this has already largely abated, so hopefully it won’t be necessary for the US to be engaged in combat missions there or have to spend a lot more money supporting the Iraqi government. The Iraqi people will have to find ways of dealing with their problems from here on. It’s pretty much up to them to success or fail now. I don’t think there’s a lot more we do for them now.

George,Afganistan,Iraq,Iran,Yemen war on terror has been planned as
far back as the 1980′s.For the Council on Foreign Relations Zbignew
Brzezinski (Top US political scientist) co-authored an article outlining the redrawing of the maps of the middle east.The plan was to keep the US the top world power(not freedom) and control any stratigic or resource rich country in these areas (including invasion).
This plan was refined (early 90′s)in the (Paul) Wolfowitz Doctrine which brought outrage to the American public when leaked to media and had to be reworked by Cheney.
George, To me there is no justification for war as it is the Ultimate FAILURE OF HUMAN KIND.The way the world is looking it’s going to take a few more million years of evolution before man learns live,love and let be.

Good comment Rod James…And to George, we bombed Iraq into oblivion and opened up horrendous religious division that had been kept under control. We will need to stay there in some capacity for decades and we should feel morally responsible for helping them recover…Why isn’t the rightwing screaming about the money drain there that will continue for years??

George: Is there any difference in the eyes of sane men between accidental killing and cold blooded murder based on nothing but lies?

Dee,

Well, of course there is a difference, but they are all unfortunate, regardless of the situation.

Again, I challenge you to either show “proof” of your theory that we were lied to by Bush/Cheney, or revise your statement to say “I believe we were lied to because….” and make your case. So far as I know, this is still just a theory that can’t be proven. I’m aware that we were told by our officials (including Hillary Clinton) that they thought Iraq had WMDs and that was one of the reasons for going into Iraq because terrorist might obtain them and use them against us. Our troops did not find large stockpiles of these weapons. However, for this to be a lie, Bush/Cheney would have had to know for sure that there weren’t any WMDs in Iraq before invading. From everything I’ve been able to discern, every intelligence organization in the world thought Iraq had these WMDs, so I think this was unfortunate, but not a lie.

George: Would it be possible for you to believe that CHENEY send our troops into a illegal war in a country to maybe dispose of the bombs, arms and ammunition that George Sr supplied to Hussaine ,who then turned the weapons on his own people? We would not want the world to even farhem Daddy-O had the blood of many innocents on his hands, – HUH.?????

Yes, I can acknowledge that, “IF” you can show me the “FACTS” to support that theory. Until then, my opinion is that this did not happen.

Narvic,
And besides being an indiscriminate liar O-man is a racist AND a divider who has NO experience what so ever at leading anything but an angry mob!!!! 114th assault helicopter company Vinh Long, Viet Nam!!!

What has that got to do with Cheney.
I fail to make the connection. Thanks.

Narvick,
yeah you wouldn’t see that it’s ok to call one a liar and not ok to call the other a liar!!!! O-man has told more lies in the past year than Cheney did the whole time he was in office!!! Is that clear now!!!!

Those poll numbres are not looking to good right now. And he would have never been POTUS without Soros, Acorn and a bunch of dead peoples votes.

Michael: We certainly did see a lot of dead peoples votes in 2000 and it was so unnecessary since the stacked courts put the male they wanted into office for us. Hey, we did not even need to go to the polls.

Are you justifying the fraudulent voting practice because you didn’t agree with the Supreme Court’s decision?

Now quit telling the truth. Well said.

KKK? Do you mean Robert Byrd? I know he is still standing, but is he alive?

Michael: You really should know it all. Since you spread so much disinformation in heaven that my God displaced you, gave you a new moniker and told you in advance that you will lose. Why do you refuse to see the truth and come into the light? Your very own salvation is at stake here.

What did Michael say this is incorrect?

DeeD, Thou who wouldst worship the false messiah devil, shall not preach redemption.

Why do you friggin’ liberals have to hide behind the race card…I find you comments repulsive and unwarrented. Obama has zero leadership qualities and it shows evrytime he spouts out his lies. Heck, foreighn governments are now openly critisizing him and his indecisiveness.

Just the opposite but I’m refering to people who I would trust to take care of a problem. Has nothing to do with growing government or increasing national debt.

ab-norm,
Yup and I still learned more than you did repeating grades like you did!!!!

USmadgirl,
you said a mouthful lady!!! And all true.

The name usmadgirl fits. You do sound quite mad!

Narvick,

To quote your response to several posts, “What has that got to do with Cheney. I fail to make the connection.” By the way, you forgot the question mark after Cheney.

And NO, I WASN’T “mad” until your Marxist leader proceeded in collapsing our economy & leading us toward a world government. If that’s what YOU want, then you just enjoy the heck out of it, but I don’t want ANY PART OF IT, but at least, for a little while (until your great “Savior” takes that away) I still have every right to express my opinion!

usmadgirl: George Bush Sr bought into the OWG and said so at a summit meeting with NK in attendance. I believe Clinton and the rest of the Administrations have bought into the concept and is pushing forward full throttle. I also feel if we get lucky all the top head honchos will take care of themselves for us. With a little luck they’ll kill each other off each wanting to be the BIG FROG in the POND. Now that could be considered poetic justice.

Narvick,

Also, what in my above comment deserved your response to consider me “mad”! I merely stated my opinion! Like I said, until your leader takes that right away, along with all the other Constitutional rights that your dictator took an oath to uphold & has disregarded from day one, then I can express anything I feel! In comparison to this radical administration, Bush & Cheney are saints!

Just because someone has a different opinion than you, doesn’t give you the right to violate my rights by defaming my character!

You go usmadgirl: Tell it like it is and when a few zombies are called on the carpet for being so dense between the ears and refusing to use their God given brains , then we shall see true anger.

I figured that if you chose to have yourself known as “mad girl”, you must consider yourself “mad”. I was just trying to accomodate your name choice. No offense intended beyond that.

There appears to be no hope for you. Whoever you are.

You know there’s so little hope for so many on this site,it’s frustating and pitiable at the same time…

KILLER IN TEXAS, Your a physcotic whack job!!

Yep, killer, there’s a reason why gun sales are through the roof, the purchasers are panicked that we have a black president and they’re uneducated fools and kooks being led by the nose…who’s making all the $$ on these sales?? gun stores and manufacturers…pathetic!!

No, No, Dems-HO, remember we are all just a bunch money grubbers, we like people of all colors to spend money, that’s just more to put in our pockets. The reason we are stocking up on guns is because sooner or later their going to let all you crazy nuts out of the loony bin and we’ll need something to defend ourselves with. Also, when everybody becomes cannibalistic, like your good old buddy Ted Turner said, then we need some way to keep from getting eaten or at least if I have to be cannibal, I’ll be able bag me a big’un.

Oh, in case you didn’t get the whole “money” comment, that’s to say, NO, we are not afraid of blacks nor a black president, his ideology & agenda, now that’s a HORROR STORY. Also, I forget, what color is the Republican Party Chairman? And which party elected, as their Majority Leader, the Exalted Cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan, Sen. Robert Byrd? And to which party did Abraham Lincoln, who freed the slaves, belong?
WHA, WHA, WHA! Sorry times up.

Answers:
Black
Democrats
Republican Party

Tinwarble: Take a red ,yellow, black or white human being, Line us up in a row. Cut each of us on the arm with a knife – behold we all bleed red blood. We all feel the same pain. To me this is human beings who deserve to receive the same respect we hope to receive from them.

DD,

Then why do you Liberals take the side of Republicans being racist & bigots. Yet in history, it has been Democrats that have perpetuated racism. You talk about respect, yet you will denigrate anyone who you don’t agree with, like saying that Cheney drove his daughter to hate men. You show no respect when you make statements based on your hatred for someone with no facts to back up your statement.
You push out opinions as though they are facts, regurgitating some lie you found on a Liberal website as though it were your own thought. You can’t acquire knowledge for yourself, so spew the incoherent thoughts of others.
When you able to put facts down with your opinion, come on back to the Adults table, until then sit down & eat you vegetables.

DeeD, snakes bleed red also, so what’s your point?

Denniso…see you are still useing the out of date race card! How about the comments by you mentors Reid and Willie boy? Opps! Forgot they are on your side.

Kilrntex: Has Halliburton payed back the money he charged our representatives in Washington for the meals he’s supposed to have fed our troops yet? Place our troops in harms was in an illegal war and starve them at the same time while raking in bogus figures at the same time. Yes – indeed these past scum bags showed us every day of just how low life characters they were, are. will always be, but fear nor there will be justice handed out and I’m very sure the supporters of these scum bags will get their share also. Could not happen to a more deserving low life class of people — AMEM.

“Illegal war?” According to what legal entity?

JohnB,
The real fact is we have gotten very little oil from the ground in Iraq!!! The pipeline has had all kinds of problems and the Iraqi government is balking at letting any of its natural resources go!!!

Denniso,

We lost one of our young men in Iraq a couple of years ago, so that war brought a sense of reality to our family. However, I haven’t heard one person in our family or circle of friends say they thought the war was wrong or that GWB/DC took us to war unnecessarily. We all regret that this happened, but we feel like this young man voluntarily served honorably and died trying to do something worthwhile for humanity. The fact that this country stayed long enough to see it through just reinforces the feeling that this sacrifice was not in vein.

George I am so sorry for your loss, but am so proud of your attitude. You are the type of people that makes America strong.
Thank God for people like you and Dick Cheney, who stands up for their convictions and are honorable.
God Bless America

George, Your son was a brave man fighting for what he believed in.
All the troops are the bravest of the brave unlike Cheney who is a war profiteer with his investments and payoffs from Haliburton and the like. Cheney and the Bush family are all war profiteers (check the library of congress on the history of Bush Sr. and his father in laws ties to the Nazi Bank).

Rod,

Thanks for your kind thoughts and words. However to be honest and fair, this young man was not my son, but the son of my wife’s cousin. Nevertheless, his death was very untimely and a shock to the whole family. We saw this young man soon after he was born, and watched him grow up and get engaged to be married, and then attended his funeral. He was a true American hero. He was shot twice by enemy snipers while helping to save the life of a fellow Marine.

Back to the subject, do you have any evidence, other than allegations, that either George Bush or Dick Cheney profited from the Iraq war? If so, I’d sure like to hear it. I’ve heard the allegations, but have never read, heard, or seen anything that I’d classify as real evidence. Still, I welcome anything that supports your statement. I think that truth and our future demand we get the facts. Best regards.

George, Dick Cheney has not been convicted of any crimes but I think one would have to be naive to think that he is not guilty of conflict of interest especially in regard to Haliburton.With US government it is sometimes impossible to tell where corporations and government separate.Paulson/Ex.Goldman Sachs,Geithner/Ex.GoldmanSachs, Summers/Wall St. the list goes on and on. In 93 Sec of Defence Cheney set up a PAC for a presidential run and the CEO of Haliburton was a contributer.This was after Cheney had given exclusive contracts to rebuild Iraq and supply troops(Haliburton has been fined numerous times for over billing the government). N. Schwarzkopf warned Cheney about Iraq and said they had 1500 tanks/250,000 troops on the Saudi border but satellite imagery from that period showed none,all false reasons to justify invasion.Cheney after Sec of defense gig was then hired by Haliburton during which time they sold products to Iran in violation of embargo.They also sold nuclear products to Libya and were fined 4 million.With these actions (many more as well) that could be seen as imoral and with his 30 million “hand shake” and retirement package(no strings?)from Haliburton I think you could call him a WAR PROFITEER.The Bush family please check Library of Congress on Prescotts
directorship of the US Branch of Nazi Bank Thyssen.He had 23 companies seized for TRADING WITH THE ENEMY.His profits were passed to G.W.Bush also a Union employee who then put in trust for Dubya millions of WAR PROFIT.The Bush’s have been under more than one law suit from Holocaust survivors for lost millions and lives.

George…I’m sorry for the young man and his family, but the way his family feels does not change the fact that Bush/Cheny lied and manipulated intel to convince us that war was necessary w/ Iraq…we have known for yrs now that it was a lie and utterly unnecessary and the loss of American kids and Iraqi civilians is terrible, especially so given the lies. Cheny and Bush should be in jail for the wasted lives and trillion dollars of our tax money blown. Iraq is not over with…we’ve torn the country to hell and people are still being blown to bits. Parents of course don’t want to think their child died in vain, but look at the facts.Parents should be the first in line calling for Cheny’s head.

Denniso,

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

The situation did change after we went into Iraq, but I can’t agree that Bush and/or Cheney lied to us. I realize there have been many allegations that they lied, but I don’t think the evidence supports that conclusion. The intelligence wasn’t great in some cases, but that would have been the case regardless who was President. I imagine if Bush had gotten better intel, he might have made different decisions, but that didn’t happen. Given the situation as it actually was, one might say that he could have been more reluctant to go to war. That’s fair, but I think we’ve seen cases in history when that kind of reluctance has gotten us into trouble as well. I might also agree that Bush could have done a better job of executing the war effort to get us out quicker, but again that has the benefit of hindsight as well. What I can say is that Bush acted decisively to protect our country and didn’t bow to public pressure to pull out too early. He and the Republicans paid a big political price for this, but I for one think they acted in our best interest. I do wish the war effort hadn’t cost so much, but then I guess I’m not willing to deprive our troops anything they need, nor was I willing to pull them out before the job was done, nor was I willing to take Iraq’s oil to pay for the war. At first, I thought that would be the right thing to do, but later decided we needed Iraq to get back on their feet quickly if we were to ever to get out of there. They needed the money to rebuild their infrastructure which had been allowed to run down by Saddam Hussein prior to our arrival, then the damage from our weapons, and finally the damage by the insurgents all took their toll. I can’t see a perfect solution to this situation, but I think it could have been much worse.

The Iraq war was a preemptive invasion,nothing defensive about it. Saddam had not indicated he would attack us and the only threat was to our aircraft enforcing the no fly zone over parts of Iraq that we declared after the Gulf war. We said that Iraq could not have
WMD’s even though we have more than anybody in the world,and we think we have the right to tell any other country that they can’t have what we have…why is that?? Do we rule the world?
Then we decide we have the right to invade a sovereign country based upon faulty intel and w/ Bush/Cheny whipping up a war fervor around the country. How can you legally invade a country w/ no provocation and no overt threat to our safety?? For that to be legal in any ethical sense at all, you would have to have absolute proof of an imminent attack on our country. The rule of law requires that…we didn’t have 100% certainty of an attack,since we had no indication that Saddam was planning an attack at all.
Everyone w/ any sort of open mind knows that Cheny/Bush wanted to redeem Bush 1 and finish the job w/ Saddam that had been left incompleted. Some think that it was all about oil in the greater region and Saddam was a potential threat to the stability of that very important oil producing area. Both ideas probably played a role,but it was still an illegal,preemptive invasion. I wonder if there are countries that imagine that they are in danger from us and may decide to do the same thing??

So Dems-Ho, what you’re saying is that America is just an evil, imperialistic nation that wants to impose it’s will on every other country. And that we should just have a live, let live policy towards murderous dictators. I mean after all, what did they ever do except try to invade other countries so that they could expand their own power, or starve, torture and oppress their own people. And how would they make their people live in fear and there by ratify their own power without being able to use those WMD’s, that they have every right to, to kill thousands of their own people. I know, I know, those tyrannical dictators aren’t evil, their just misunderstood, like Hitler was.
And I know, that poor innocent Saddam, he didn’t have any WMD’s, we shouldn’t even worried about the terrorist that he was harboring or that he was paying $25,000.00 to the families of Hezbollah suicide bombers. He just did that out of the kindness of his heart because he didn’t like to see anyone suffer, unless they were a Kurd or a Shi’ite.
Besides, you know that we could have used the UN to keep him from doing anything bad. Never mind all those countries that could have forced him to comply with the sanctions imposed on him were getting paid through the “Oil for Food” scandal.

Oh, you crazy Liberals! Your just like kids, you never know what you will say next.

Denniso,

I’m not going to rehash every point you’ve raised here. I think we’ve already gone over most of them, and the fact is, we just disagree. I respect your opinion. I hope you can respect mine.

There is one thing, however, that I would like to ask you. Do you think we should “not” have attacked Iraq after they occupied Kuwait, since Iraq had not attacked the US first? If you don’t think we should have freed Kuwait of Iraqi occupation, please explain your reasoning. Thanks.

George, your being respectful,thanks…There is plenty of evidence that Bush 1 implicitly allowed Saddam to think he could have Kuwait,so that he would then have a good excuse to demolish Saddam’s army,which he did. Kuwait was carved off by the British decades ago and Saddam wanted to have it back and have a seaport. Saddam had been growing his army to become the largest in the area and was perceived as a threat to that vital oil region. It was probably a war that didn’t have to occur. Sad…

With all due respect, you need to read and think independently.

Typical elitist additude, talks down to anyone who disagrees with him.

There are lies and their are opinions..she’s spouting all lies and paranoia..simple fact.

Denniso, She has the same right to speculate as any of us. Just because you disagree, doesn’t make her or anyone else a liar. You and your liberal elitist cronies think you know better and seek to supress oposing viewpoints. This is not only un-American, it’s not even original. It’s been done and remains to happen in Iran, Iraq, Cuba, China, Russia, Venezuela, etc., etc.
The cards are all on the table now, the jig is up. Time for you and your ilk to jetison the life boats. This country will be free from tyranny again soon regardless of the cost. Whether by ballots or bullets it will happen.

Michael J…just for the record and for my own education,can you tell us when this country was sufficiently ‘free’ for you?? What block of years did it meet your standard so that you and others here wouldn’t be calling for armed revolution? I’m serious, when was it??

Denniso, I’m afraid education is not possible for someone like yourself who has been so completely indoctrinated. Just hope that it is not genetically transferred to your offspring.
“At what time was this country sufficeintly Free” you ask?
Just the fact that you ask that question proves beyond a doubt that you just don’t get it.
“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance”

So,you can’t answer a simple question? When was the country ‘free’ by your definition?? Let me guess,we have been free under all Repub presidents and enslaved under all Dems. Is that how you measure ‘freedom’??

Shirley – I feel the only thing CHENEY stands up for is his personal personna. He respects no one that I’m aware of. I may be wrong but I have a deep seated feeling he made his older daughter hate men. I think he is an abuser and I feel sorry for his wife. He has leaky watery sneaky snake like eyes and I would trust him about as far as I can see in a big sand storm. He pulled every dirty deed possible and was such a whimp he allowed George Jr to carry full blame for every act he committed.
No, we do not need another scum bag like him and I would suffice to say he would be much better off keeping his mouth shut and allowing all to think he is stupid as to blabber utter nonsense and convince the world of how really stupid he is. He’s gptta peddle his book so the zombies can help make him richer.

Typical liberal tripe. No debating the issues, just character asasinations. Saul would be proud of you.

Thank you Michael for your opinion. I like to call it my opinion also and not necessarily tripe. All opinions have four sides and if we can shuffle through the garbage we may uncover a few facts to lean on. Worth a try for me.

Since you’re an eye expert, why don’t you look into Obumma’s eyes and tell me what you think? They are cold, black and evil. Enough said!

Dee,

I have no problem with you disagreeing with Cheney’s politics. However, I think your other personal characterizations are out of bounds for this forum. That’s my opinion.