GregS – Abortion as a means used for birth control is cold blooded murder. But who has a right to demand anyone should live as we want them to live? That is a cancer that affects our society today, every one trying to tell all how to live, how to vote and on and on. God gave us a choice and the decision has to rest with each and every person. They will pay a price for any and all decisions they make and the Gods they worship and especially the Gods with feet of clay.

Dee D,
You’re right let’s not let them tell us how to live our lives!!! Let’s take abortion a little farther and make it legal to kill whom ever we don’t like!!! Let’s drink, drive, and kill people, that’s their tough luck!!! Sounds a little stupid doesn’t it???

JoeH; Yes, maybe sounds stupid to you. I’m not for abortion for birth control, it is murder. I say the killing while under the influence of alcohol is also murder. I say taking a life in man made war is murder.
But we each have been given the free choice by our maker. We all answer for our own sins and not each others. In fact my God tells me to judge not, lest I be judged. Now I can not speak for the ones who has Gods with clay feet. There are laws on the books made by man, but who are in the majority of violating these laws? With enough money people can circumvent any law and do as they please. In fact, you can take almost any law and prove any point you choose to make, because no laws are removed from the books, just added to.

Claire,
Then you mean that if some man raped, murdered, and dismembered your offspring, you wouldn’t judge him? I am a man of God, but I am just a man. I no doubt would take a gun to him and he would ruin two lives, but he wouldn’t ruin another!!!! I’m sorry I’m not a Quaker and I’m vengeful. I’d ask my God to forgive me but if he didn’t then I pay the penalty. I also think God would understand and forgive me!!!

Dadblame it I did it again.. that last post was for Dee D!!

GregS…no, you’re anti choice. You would want the police to come between a woman and her doctor. Men have essentially no right to have an opinion in this debate..women grow babies in their bodies, men do basically nothing, except have some fun during conception.Tough as it is, it has to be the womans decision to carry a baby to birth, partly because it doesn’t work any other way. Are you going to throw women in prison for not staying healthy during pregnancy and endangering their baby?…drinking, drugs, bad food?? Outlawing a woman’s choice over HER body leads to what you think we’re fighting against in Iraq and Afghanistan. Tryanny over women.

denniso,
I hate to inform you, but there are laws already that can put women in jail for drinking while pregnant and also for doing drugs while in that same condition!!! guess you forgot that, right?

denniso,
One other thing. trying to protect an unborn CHILD does not lead to what is going on over in Afghanistan. We are not saying that they don’t have the right to go about uncovered, we are not saying if they get rapeed it’s their fault and they should be stoned to death, we are not saying they can’t get an education or study religion, GET THE PICTURE? Or do I have to list more?

Joe, no, you are just saying that you know what is best for all women, and will be the judge to decide how and what they should do with their own bodies. Tryanny starts with dictating your desires or beliefs to those whom you know nothing about, all in the name of personal religious beliefs. You are the example of why there should be a seperation of church and state.

Eyes,
there is that green hue again I wonder where it comes from????

Joe, I’ll tell you where it comes from. Men who think they know what is best for women. Until you experience an 11 yr old who was raped and forced to have a baby, don’t think that you can even get close to understanding what it is like to be forced to have a child. I am damn tired of men thinking that they have a right to force any women to do what they think is right for her. It is a decision that is between a woman and her God, not a woman and every man in America. She will answer to God and not to you. The Constitution gives women the right to make that decision, not you.

Eyes, it appears from your two posts that you, or somone dear to you, has had a very traumatic experience. As you indicated, there is no way in which I or anyone else could know of the pain and suffering that you or another person may have gone through. I suspect that that is the reason for your strong feelings. But please understand, we are not talking about rape. Furthermore, I’m sure that you are aware that there are a lot of men out there who use abortion as a marketing tool to have sex with women. In fact, many women are pressured to have abortions by their spouses/lovers, but this is seldom, if ever, brought up in the men-vs-women arguments that the pro-abortion crowd uses. Also, please note, with regard to this discussion, the Stupak-Pitts Amendment would cover abortions for rape/incest/life of the mother.

Eyes,
If that happened to someone close to you I’m sorry for her. I have been very close to a man that wanted kids from the time he was 16 and at 23 years old his girlfriend got pregnant and had an abortion and he had nothing to say about the murder of his son!!!!! Yes, they could tell it was a boy! She told him later just to hurt him. He died three days later when he walked out in front of a semi!!!!

denniso, your comments are so out-of-context and flawed, it’s pathetic. Let me break this down a bit:

1. “GregS…no, you’re anti choice.”:

O.K., and you are pro-abortion. It’s both of our rights to use the terminology that we choose. That’s called freedom of speech. However, that’s not the context of what I responded to in Robert’s original comment. Robert had a problem with the coupling of the terms “anti-abortion” and “pro-choice” in the article which we are discussing. I agreed with him, because this is supposedly a “conservative” forum. In most cases, conservatives (not fiscal conservatives) are pro-life, and as such, pro-lifers don’t usually couple those two terms in the articles that they write, just as you pro-aborts usually don’t couple “pro-life” and “pro-abortion” in the articles that you write. If this offends you, TOUGH LUCK!

2. “You would want the police to come between a woman and her doctor.”:

The so-called “doctor,” an abortionist, is usually a person who the woman has probably never seen before, and who probably she will never see again after he does the abortion on her. This is no different from walking up to an anonymous clerk in a department store for service. Furthermore, what do “the police” have to do with the article in this discussion, which is about using federal funds for abortions in the healthcare “reform” bill? GIVE ME A BREAK!

3. “Men have essentially no right to have an opinion in this debate..women grow babies in their bodies, men do basically nothing, except have some fun during conception.”:

– This “debate” is not about men vs women. There are just as many women as men (probably more) who are pro-life. Besides, what happens after the baby is born? Should the man be allowed to take that baby away from the woman, just because it is now outside of the woman’s body? Sorry, “location, location, location” applies to real estate, not to human babies.
– Again, this has nothing to do with the current discussion, which is about using federal funds for abortion, and which most people are against.

4. “Outlawing a woman’s choice over HER body…”:

– In addition to what Joe H had to say about this statement, it is medically incorrect to even imply that an unborn child is part of a woman’s body. Any medical textbook will tell you that the unborn child is a totally separate human organism with his/her own genome, sex, blood type, heart beat, brain waves, etc.
– Again, the issue in this healthcare “reform” bill is not whether or not a woman should be allowed to have an abortion. It’s about whether or not federal funds should be used to pay for abortions. Most people do not favor using federal funds for abortions. The Stupak-Pitts Amendment does NOT prevent women from having coverage for abortions. It only prevents federal funds from being used for that coverage.

Greg, you are wrong, the bill prevents a woman from using her own money to purchase a different policy to cover an abortion, if she gets assistance or has a policy covered under the public option. In other words, they will not let her use her own money to purchase another plan which will cover abortions. I read it for an hour, to make sure I understood it. Since it is against the law now for Federal money to be spent on abortions, why is another amendent needed?

Eyes, these are the very points which the pro-abortion crowd (including Obama) are trying to mislead the public on:

1. First of all, it is NOT true that the bill prevents a woman from using her own money to purchase a separate add-on plan to cover abortion, if she receives subsidies. Rep. Nita Lowey (D-NY) put out a misleading statement on this earlier in November, and it was rated as false by the non-partisan PolitiFact.com. According to Politifact, people who choose to receive the subsidies would have to buy a separate, add-on plan for abortion coverage known as a “rider,” using their own money. Here’s the link:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/nov/09/nita-lowey/lowey-says-stupak-amendment-restricts-abortion-cov

Also, I went over the bill myself, and I could not see anything that prevents a woman from using her own money. In fact it explicitly says that nothing shall prevent an individual from purchasing separate coverage for abortions as long as that coverage is paid for by the individual’s own funds.

2. Secondly, the current law, which you mentioned, is called the Hyde Amendment. It only applies to CURRENT appropriations to the Health and Human Services that are renewed annually. It does NOT apply any new appropriations or programs that would be created in the healthcare “reform” bill. This is why the Stupak-Pitts Amendment is needed. It merely extends the principles of the Hyde Amendment to apply to any new programs that would be created in the healthcare “reform” bill. Obama, who opposes the Stupak-Pitts Amemdment, is misleading the public when he says that there is currently a law (i.e. the Hyde Amendment) which prohibits federal funding of abortions. What he is NOT telling the public is that the Hyde Amendment does not apply to any of the new programs in the healthcare “reform” bill.

Greg, I’m going to re-read that part of the bill again. It really seemed to me that the wording restricted the women from being able to purchase the rider, if they had main coverage with any federal money. Will do due diligence. If you are right, I will apologize.

si,
I listen to world news stations not in the U.S. like BBC! I then compare what I hear on those to the MSM and FOX. I have found more news and truth on fox than the MSM!!! I also find less special interest stories on Fox. I don’t want to know how Tiger had a spiff with his wife and crashed his car. I want to know how the war is going, how the job market is going, how the housing market is doing, things like that. things that MATTER!!!!!

Joe: I think it is a crying shame that a lot of us have to rely on any other country to get truthful, unbiased and honest news. It’s a shame our own sources for news has to feed us propaganda and lies to try to keep us from learning truthful accounts of what is taking place in our own country.

Dee D,
It goes with the territory!!! You have to WORK sometimes if the problem is important enough to you!!! For the freedom my country offers me I’ll work amazingly hard!!!

Yes, S C, I agree. It’s a terrible shame. What’s even worse is that there are so many people out there that actually believe that “STENCH,” because they don’t bother to question the liberal news media, which bends over backwards to make sure that the truth does not get out.

GregS,
the second amendment guarantees the right to own and carry arms but they are trying to change that daily!! what is to stop them from trying to change or challenge that bill?

Joe H, I’m not sure what you are asking. When you say “change or challenge that bill,” are you talking about the Stupak-Pitts Amendment? If so, you are exactly right: There is nothing to stop the pro-aborts from preventing that language from being in the final version of the healthcare “reform” bill. All I am saying is that they are trying to smuggle federally funded abortions into this bill, under the label of “healthcare.” Since the pro-aborts are acutely aware that most Americans are against federally funded abortions, they are desperately trying to cover it up, as I indicated above with Obama’s remarks.

Greg,
that is exactly what I was talking about, it just came out at the wrong place in the discussion! There is nothing GUARANTEED about ANYTHING when it comes to politics except the liberals and the RINOS are going to screw us if we let them!!!! Take Texas, for instance. Can you imagine what’s going to happen if they ever try to take away their RIGHT to own and carry arms? LOOK OUT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

Joe H: What do you mean when you say the liberals and rinos are gonna screw us?
I believe the Liberals, RINOS, Conservatives, Blue Dogs and the others dressed in sheep clothing have been screwing us for years, with a lot of our blessings.

Joe H, well said!

Dee D, I agree somewhat, but as a conservative, I feel that the liberal politicians and RINOs are probably the biggest threat to conservative principles. The conservatives do make mistakes, but the liberals and the RINOs screw us purposely.

AMEN, AMEN A m e n!!!!!!!

Dee D,
just as soon as you explain how the same people that rail against the death penalty for murderers, serial rapists, Child molesters, can demand abortions!!!!

Joe – Have you read anything in the health care reform package? Which I might add is being watered down a little more each day. There is no where they want to sanction abortion. They in fact want the abortionists to pay their own way and not expect funding for the actions. I think anyone willing to take a life should be sterilized so they can not reproduce.
The major issue is the public option. The main goal is to regulate the costs to everyone and not allow the insurance companies to refuse to cover a person or drop their coverage when they get sick and need the coverage. They do not want the Insurance companies to refuse coverage due to a preexisting condition. They are trying to keep everything priced within reason for all. It’s about competition. If Insurance Companies have any competition they will bargain for the policy holders money.
There is a lot I don’t like, but we have to start somewhere. Over 40 years of allowing the big conglomerates to make their profits at the expense of peoples health is too long to wait. Too many die who can not afford to get sick, see a doctor or purchase the medication they need for survival. And we can’t afford to die either.

DeeD,
You need to read the news a little better. Part of the Dems won’t vote for the plan if there’s a public option, Part won’t vote for it if abortion isn’t covered. Still others won’t vote for it if fines are or are not involved!!!! Read a little closer!!!

Dee D,
I suggest you look up the AP story dated today titled Divided Senate Poised to Start Health Care Debate!!! That will explain my last post to you very well!!!

Joe, it is no different than those who like capital punishment, want to go to war and wanting to kill every Muslim in this country, not wanting abortions to be legal. The word to describe this type of situation is dichotomy. To some of us Christians it is hard to believe that Chrisitians are wanting capital punishment, will go to war too easily, and show hatred towards others, wanting to bomb them off the face of the earth, all the while being so upset about abortions. Dichotomy is the word.

Eyes,
I don’t need a lesson in English or semantics, I asked for a reason how people that rail against the death penalty for convicted serial rapists, murderers, and child molesters/ murderers can demand the life of an unborn innocent!!!!

Joe, you want the right to kill in the name of capital punishment, yet you want to prevent abortions. Some want to stop killing in the name of captial punishment and leave the choice of abortions up to the individual. What makes you think either one is the right choice? Killing is killing regardless of the circumstances.

Eyes, If you can’t see the difference then what someone said on one of the other threades is true. YOU ARE DENSE!!!!GREEN WATER BETWEEN!!!

Joe, I can see that you have your belief’s and want to shove those belief’s down everyone’s throat. In this country we are allowed to believe differently and that right is protected. Abortion is not what I would choose for myself, however I will fight for the womens right to determine what is right for her, without interference from men, and religious groups. This is a free country and freedom of choice regarding your own body is still a protected right.

Eyes,
Quick! tell me the sin, crime, law broken, by the unborn!!!! Now do you see the difference? One is truly innocent and the other is innocent till PROVEN guilty!!!!!

Joe, dead is dead. It doesn’t matter if you are a baby or an adult. Killing is killing and will be judged by the Lord, not you or anyone else.

I do not believe in abortion. However, In cases where the mother’s life is in peril, then yes, I believe in terminating the pregnancy. I also believe in terminating unwanted pregnancy in case of incest, and rape. If I were in that situation, I do not believe I would want the baby of some filthy low-life.

There is so much to think about. For example, look at all the “crack” babies. It is terrible. These women that are on drugs have no business getting pregnant. And a lot of them do. The babies suffer, and are at the mercy of the sicko mother. This sounds harsh, but if women stay on drugs then maybe they should be
“sterilized.” My niece and her husband were foster care parents for about 10 years, then they decided to adopt the last boy and girl they were taking care of. Both were “crack” babies. Their life became a living hell as the two children grew. They had to be watched nonstop. One day as my niece was wrapping Christmas presents, the girl got hold of the scissors and tried to stab their dog. My niece was so upset, because for one split second she got “careless.” Both are on medication, and will be probably for the rest of their lives. My niece and her husband had to literally safe-proof their home. They had to put bars on the bedroom windows so the kids couldn’t get out. Needless to say, my niece and her husband did not get much sleep for a number of years. Now the boy is 16 years old and he is in a “special” home. My niece & husband make the trip every weekend to see him. The boy is worse than the girl. The girl is a little more stablized but they still have to watch her. It is a tough call.

Claire,
I have seen crack babies that have turned into loving well adjusted kids. I am very sorry for your family’s problems,I sincerely am. Please don’t make the mistake of labeling all crack babies as problem children. Yes ALL of them have that propensity, but a good number of them come through. They are all Gods children!!!

s c – Abortion as a means for birth control is a sin and wrong.
If you can explain how any human, male or female can rape, abuse, molest and then kill any innocent baby, child, girl or boy and never pay any consequences for their actions? All double standards are based on who is doing what and the amount of money that can buy them out of an ugly situation.

that has been proven in our media for years by some of the most powerhouse families in the USA !

si,
to back what you say, look at the Kennedys. One drowned a girl and got off , and another raped and murdered a girl and got off due to the sway of the clan!!!!

I beg to differ with you as far as your response that not that many Americans want health care reform. There are 85% that don’t want it. The only health care reform needed is to stop the malpractice suits that aren’t even worth the paper they are written on. We need to have more competition and people able to cross state lines to receive the health care insurance that they want. We need to stop with the social programs for the people that don’t care to better themselves because they can sit back and rake in money from the government while they sell drugs, prostitution, and stealing from those that have made a life for themselves. People need to stand up and fight for what they believe in, but not at the cost of other Americans.

Sheilah–it depends on what polls do the reporting. They all have different results. Everyone I know do want health reform with a public option. However, they do not want health reform to cover the deadbeats and neither do I. It will be amended over and over again. Who knows what will happen.

Claire,
And everyone I talked to said they don’t want a public option. Why should I have to lose my coverage to give it to deadbeats that don’t even cover their own kids even when they can afford it? Or the ones that can work and choose not to? My wife and I have worked damn hard for our coverage and are quite satisfied with it! If you want to cover the people that can’t afford it or can’t work, then fine do that but don’t screw people up that have worked all their life for what they have!!! All they have to do is widen the coverage of medicaid and make it federally funded as well and those are covered!! Kids are already covered in most states under, I believe the WIC (?) program,so they are not the problem the libs make them out to be!!!

sheilah – Feel free to differ with me, but please allow me the privilege to believe its what you yourself have researched and believe is your personal opinion and not just something you’ve been told to believe and spew by someone else.
Its not hard to see where a lot of posters get their information as I also listen to all and then remove the authors personal opinion and distortion of facts to form my own opinion. I’m not the brightest bulb but neither am I willing to run off the cliff like the lead buffalo without understanding why I’m willing to go over the edge.
Right or wrong I refuse to allow anyone to tell me how I am to think or vote. Then I have to live with my mistakes, you don’t have to live with my mistakes. We are the government and we’ve done a lousy job and will have to live with the final draft. We are our own worst enemies. Lord have mercy on us.
Stop all programs because people care not to better themselves.
Our manufactures are all jumping ship, leaving our country and being rewarded by our representatives for doing so. We consumers are guilty of urging them to relocate for the cheaper slave labor who works for pennies so their wares can be imported into our country and sold for big profits.
What do we have to look forward to? No jobs, no homes, no taxes to pay to keep our government going because we are unable to make any money. Our whole country going into bankruptcy with only the wealthy at the top of the pyramid who are in control of our economy.
WHAT’S LEFT? Oh I know ONE WORLD ORDER – ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT to be controlled by WHOM? The same ones who’s gotten us into this mess with our blessings? WAKE UP AND REALIZE WHAT WE ARE ASKING FOR.

the wealthy better start worrying about where they are going to go to live after this country goes down the shoot. do you think you will be trusted by the people you helped to sell the USA out to ? they will already know yours and your more powerful friends capabilities, do you think for a minute they will let you run loose to maybe do the same to them someday? i think not ! more than likely when your usefullness is finished so will you be finished!

Dee D,
The reason that pharmas can buy prescription meds for pennies in say Mexico or even Canada is we are the only country paying for the research costs. That is reserved for us only!!! Mexico doesn’t pay it because they are a poor country and can’t afford it(poor babies) so we go there and buy it back at higher prices than the Mexicans pay, but still lower than what we pay here!!! Mexico makes money and they are happy you save money and you’re happy and the happiest one of all is big pharma!!! Take ranitidine, brand name zantac. you buy brand name zantac and its about 20.00 for I believe 14 tablets, I can buy ranitidine which is the same only generic and I can get 65 tablets for about 6.99!!!!The difference is two things one you are still being charged for the research costs tho not as much since they have to compete. Second IS the competition and the generic has no research costs!!!

Joe, the NIH gives grants and subsidies to the Universities who do the actual research for new drugs. Our tax money is being spent for these grants and then the Universities are allow to patent the drugs and receive all the benefits. Do you see anything blantly wrong with this wonderful circle of capitalism? Seems as though it is socialism for the rich (corporations) and capitalism for the poor. Big Pharma companies do very little R&D, however they show it on their profit and loss statements, it is combined with their marketing $$ spent to entice us to ask our doctors to prescribe the newest drug they are making. Hidden accounting is killing this country. Enron showed how to beat the system and most are taking advantage of the process.

Eyes,
you don’t work do you? Or if you do, you don’t like how much you are paid, right? I have not seen you say one good thing about any company in the two months I’ve posted or read here!!!! Would you wish us to be more like China? Slave wages and long hours? Or, I know lets all get 30.00 an hour and see how long we have any jobs left!!!! Is it possible you made a pass at your boss and he turned you down? GET A LIFE LADY!!!!!

Dee D, in case you don’t know, or if no one has told you yet, DOCTORS make LOTS of easy MONEY performing abortions. The bottom line of that procedure is MONEY. It has NOTHING to do with making life better, and it has NOTHING to do with medical ‘ethics.’ An ABORTION is a form of POPULATION CONTROL.
Abortion is a desensitizing process. Remember that a baby is always a baby. A baby is NEVER ‘just a piece of flesh.’ If you don’t know how an abortion is performed, look it up. If you can stomach it, watch one. Then tell me how ‘caring’ and ‘compassionate’ or ‘humane’ an abortion is.
Is it not strange that we can “justify” doing this to a baby, BUT a death sentence for a serial killer or others who deserve the death penalty is not considered the ‘right’ thing? The hypocrisy is incredible! Abortion is a money-making industry.
Those who condone it have opened a door that is almost impossible to shut. Please see abortion for what it is. See abortion ‘fans’ for who they REALLY are. Their compassion and love are served up via ‘compliments’ of Adolf Hitler and Margaret Sanger (the queen of eugenics). NEITHER of those two made ANY country better – ever.

I’m in total agreement s c. I have seen some pictures of abortions and it makes me sick.
My only sister,9 years my senior had a miscarriage when I was a teenager. The doctor said she was in her first trimester (approx. 6 weeks along). He would have been a little boy, all appendage there to see, every finger and toe, eyes closed. He was so transparent I could see his little spot of a liver being formed. I could place him in my small hand and cup my fingers over his toes. I have no knowledge of when the soul enters the body but if he has so very many human traits at only about 6 weeks, I personally and truly believe this is human life. I however do not feel I have the right to dictate to anyone how they are to live. I will not pay for nor stand in judgement of any ones actions but my own. My God will judge and condemn the sinners. That is his job, not mine. I wish I had some control over a lot of things, I do not and I will not pretend to be able to do so.
As far as criminals locked away on death row for their crimes, I plead hypocrisy.
I am pro life but at the same time I believe in capitol punishment. I would never push the button to kill them out of fear of maybe killing an innocent human being. The bleeding hearts do not take into account the victims some of these monsters leave behind. When we allow criminals to sit on death row for years to file appeals at the taxpayers expense and then put them to death. Something is wrong with our system. A lot of prisoners live a better life than the blue collar workers who used to have jobs to support this once great nation. No more.
I like my meat and potatoes, but if I had to kill the meat to prepare and cook for my family, my family would become vegetarians. I respect all forms of life with the exception of snakes, flies, mosquitoes and carpenter ants. Haven’t figured what they are good for yet.

Dee D,
May you NEVER have to see a starving deer. I have and it’s not a pretty sight!!! An animal that could once jump a six foot fence like it wasn’t even there now having to struggle to put one foot in front of the other. I would rather hunt for meat than see that again. When food can only support say 20 deer and the herd is say 40 deer, nature takes over with starvation and disease. Disease like they have in Wisconsin called wasting disease the deer form of mad cow disease. They have to test each and every deer harvested to assure they don’t have it and sooner or later it will pass on to other animals. Managing the herd by selective hunting is the best, least costly way!