Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty Digest™ 

A Thanksgiving Lesson

November 20, 2009 by  

A Thanksgiving Lesson

Did you know that our Pilgrim forefathers tried communism when they first landed at Plymouth Rock?

How’s that for a dramatic beginning to a story? Years ago, when I used to give a lot of talks to high school classes, this was one of my favorites. It always got the students’ attention. And I have to admit, I also enjoyed seeing some liberal teachers get so upset with me they almost lost their lunches.

Here’s the story I told those students in those long-ago presentations.

The Pilgrims who arrived at Plymouth Rock in 1620 were incredibly brave and hardy souls. They were motivated by the noblest of virtues. They vowed, each and every one, to be as selfless as possibleto always put the needs of the group first. They agreed to own everything in common and to share everything equally.

And their naïve piety almost killed the entire colony.

We all know how the adventure begins. A group of devout Christians, seeking religious freedom for themselves and eager to "advance the Gospel of the Kingdom of Christ" in the New World, sets sail from Plymouth, England in 1620. An investment consortium known as the Merchant Adventurers of London paid the expenses for the trip, including chartering the Mayflower and its 40-man crew.

The deal was simple: The Pilgrims agreed to establish a colony in northern Virginia where they would plant crops, fish the waters and hunt in the forests. They would return a certain percentage of each year’s bounty to London until their debt had been repaid.

Things went wrong from the start. First, the syndicate changed the deal, drastically reducing the amount they would loan the Pilgrims. The brave adventurers were forced to sell many of their own possessions, and much of their provisions, to pay for the trip. As a result, they landed in the New World badly short of supplies.

Next, the small ship they had purchased in Holland, which was to accompany them to America so they could fish the waters off the coast, had to be abandoned in England.

Shortly after they set sail, the ship, badly misnamed the Speedwell, became "open and leakie as a sieve," as its captain reported. They returned to Dartmouth, where the boat was dry-docked for three weeks as repairs were made.

But to no avail. After leaving Dartmouth, the group sailed less than 300 miles when the captain decided the Speedwell "must bear up or sink at sea." This time the ships put in at Plymouth, England, where it was decided to go on without the Speedwell. On Sept. 16, 1620, the Mayflower set out alone to cross the Atlantic.

A month later, when they had reached the halfway point, fierce storms battered the ship and threatened the lives of passengers and crew. Many wanted to turn back for England. But if they abandoned the journey, they would lose everything they had invested. The Pilgrims decided to trust in God and sail on.

Despite the storms, the hazards, the crowding and the poor food, only one Pilgrim died during the voyage, a young servant. His death was balanced by the birth of a son to Stephen and Elizabeth Hopkins, who named their child Oceanus.

There were 102 passengers on board the Mayflower50 men, 20 women and 32 childrenalong with a crew of 40. The captain set a course along the 42nd parallel, a bearing that would carry him to Cape Cod. From there he intended to swing south and follow the coast to northern Virginia.

A little over two months later, on Nov. 19, land was finally sighted and the captain turned the ship south, toward Virginia. However, they soon encountered such "dangerous shoals and roaring breakers" that they turned back to Massachusetts. It was then that the grumblings of dissent turned into a full-fledged roar. Many of the passengers insisted on landing in Massachusetts, where "none had power to command them."

The Pilgrim leaders decided to meet the explosive situation by asking each male on board, except for the crew, to sign a formal document that would lay "the first foundation of their government in this place." Thus the Mayflower Compact was born.

The Pilgrims were a diverse lot. Many of them were illiterate. Yet in creating the Mayflower Compact they showed an extraordinary political maturity. They agreed to establish a government by the consent of the governed, with just and equal laws for all. Each adult male, regardless of his station in lifegentleman, commoner or servantwould have an equal vote in deciding the affairs of the colony. Of the 65 men and boys on board, all but 24 signed the agreement. The only ones who did not were the children of those adults who did sign, or men who were too sick to do so.

The first decision made under the covenant was to abandon efforts to reach Virginia and instead to settle in New England. The first explorers landed at Plymouth on Dec. 21, 1620.

Weather delays kept the majority from seeing their new home for nearly two weeks. On Jan. 2, 1621, work began on the first building they would erecta storehouse.

Because provisions were so scanty they decided that the land would be worked in common, produce would be owned in common, and goods would be rationed equally. Not unlike the society Karl Marx envisioned of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Unfortunately, thanks to illness, injury and attitude, the system did not work. Pilferage from the storehouse became common. Suspicions of malingering were muttered. Over the course of that first, harsh winter, nearly half of the colonists perished. Four families were wiped out completely; only five of 18 wives survived. Of the 29 single men, hired hands and servants, only 10 were alive when spring finally came.

The colonists struggled desperately for two more years. When spring arrived in April 1623, virtually all of their provisions were gone. Unless that year’s harvest improved, they feared few would survive the next winter. The Pilgrim leaders decided on a bold course. The colony would abandon its communal approach and permit each person to work for his own benefit, not for the common good.

Here is how the governor of the colony, William Bradford, explained what happened then. This is taken from his marvelously readable memoir (if you can make adjustments for the Old English spellings), History of Plimoth Plantation:

The experience that was had in this commone course and condition, tried sundrie years, and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanitie of that conceite of Plato & other ancients, applauded by some of later times;—that ye taking away of properties, and bringing it in communitie into a commone wealth, would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God.

For this communitie (so farr as it was) was found to breed much confusion & discontent, and retard much employment that would have been to their benefite and comforte. For yet young men that were most able and fitte for labor & services did repine that they should spend their time & strength to worke for other men’s wives and children with out any recompense.

Once they replaced communal efforts with individual responsibility the differences were dramaticand life-saving. Men went into the fields earlier and stayed later. In many cases, their wives and even their children (some barely past the toddler stage) worked right alongside them. More acres were planted, more trees were felled, more houses were built, and more game was slaughtered because of one simple change: People were allowed to keep the fruits of their own labors.

The Pilgrims arrived deeply in debt to the London merchants who sponsored them. They worked for more than 20 years, as individuals and as a community, to pay off the crushing burden. In 1627, they borrowed money to pay off the Merchants Adventurers. By 1645, they had paid off the entire debt to the company which had advanced them the sums to pay off the Merchants.

When their debt had been paid in full (at the astronomical interest rate of 45 percent per year), the company that had advanced the sums wrote the Pilgrims:

Let it not be grievous to you, that you have been instruments to break the ice for others who come after with less difficulty. The honour shall be yours to the world’s end.

As we celebrate this coming Thanksgiving Day, some 380 years after the Pilgrims celebrated the first of this uniquely American holiday, let us remember the sacrifices they made… the devotion they showed… and the lessons they learned.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

—Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “A Thanksgiving Lesson”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • Di, Cerrillos, NM

    Did anyone notice that the Pilgrims were headed for Virginia? As though Virginia already existed? If that is the case, then the Pilgrims were NOT the first europeans to settle in America. They were still slaves until they paid off the investors, why didn’t they just tell the investors to come get their money, in a leaky boat! Were there soldiers there to protect the investors money? Also, if people were stealing from the storehouse, that means that some lacked the integrity to understand that they all needed to pull together for awhile until they had established a self sustaining colony. Obviously,I have questions about even this ‘history lesson’.

    • jbird

      You have questions but you are too lazy to research or study it. I could answer for you, and I’m sure Chip Wood could too, but why should you benefit from the fruits of our labor. Look it up yourself!

    • DaveH

      Virginia was established in 1607.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia
      Before you lash out at others, you should do some research.

    • DaveH

      And you wonder if some people might have lacked integrity? Come on, look around you. We are surrounded by people who want to redistribute the wealth (translation: Steal). Do you think people without integrity haven’t existed throughout history?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Im sure there were cavemen that bopped another over the head to steal his food. Judas gave up Jesus for some silver. Cain killed Abel because he was jealous of him. Its been going on since the beginning. And still man doesnt get it. And worse yet, we have leaders that dont get it.

      • DaveH

        Oh, they get it. They know exactly what they’re doing. It’s their blind followers that don’t get it.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      They probably knew that Robert Byrd would come along some day, and didnt want to be associated with him.

    • denniso

      Di, good comment. How is Marc Simmons doing in the pleasant village of Cerrilos?

  • Tom in MI

    I grew up in a socialist paradise and voted with my feet in 1956. One of the great punishments of socialism was the hoplessness: I graduated from college in 1955, had my first job soon after grasuation and was able to project my salary for the next 25 years, no matter how good or below average my performance would be. Showing up for work was rewarded the same way as excellence. The only difference came from joining the Communist Party: that opened doors to graduate programs, job advancements and opportunities to, and recognition of achievements. The first few years in freedom was more difficult than the life I left behind but I knew that by keeping my nose clean, studying and hard work a better life could be attained. My wife and I have not been disappointed. Now we are worried that our savings (wealth?), the result of hard work a modest living, are in danger to be “spread around”. Any suggestion how to vote with our feet when we are in our mid 70-s????

    • DaveH

      My neighbors have had similar life experiences. They escaped from Czechoslovakia about 35 years ago and now they are seeing events very similar unfold here. They are resigned to a Socialistic society now and feel there is no hope. I think they are wrong. With our history of freedom, I am betting that we will pull away from Big Government.
      I think our best bet lies in the Libertarian Party:
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      Libertarians believe in Limited Government, individual freedom, and individual responsibility. I think they would bring peace to this country because people would be able to make the choices that suit their own lifestyles. If their choices were wrong and they failed, then they would have to convince friends or charities that they deserve help. There would be no forceful taking of money from the people that made the right choices. That is the only way people (or companies of people) learn from their mistakes. And imagine how good those people would treat others if they knew they might need friends later to help them out.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        We need to do something. Im all in.

      • Claire

        The Libertarian party sounds great, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty the majority of the people vote for the Republicans or Democrats. How can a Libertarian ever be elected for the Presidency? For the Senate? For the House of Representatives? It would be quite a struggle to acquire this.

      • DaveH

        Claire,
        Right now they don’t get much exposure. Very few people in high places want their high paying jobs to be subjected to the free market. And the media moguls are no exception. Foxnews though is giving an increasing voice to Libertarians (Stossel, Beck, Napolitano).
        The government leaders don’t want them due to the Limited Government platform of the Libertarian Party.
        If more people that believe in the Libertarian concepts would join the party, the media would have an increasingly difficult time ignoring them. Currently very few people even understand what the Libertarians stand for.

      • Claire

        Dave: For the most part, the best things in life do not receive the credit and recognition they deserve. Sometimes I wonder at how people can choose the path they take–there is so much good in the world if we would only find it and use it to the best of our ability. We could create a great nation again and prosperity for all. I can remember my mother’s comments–hellbent for destruction.

      • ’53 Korean Vet

        What’s really a ‘Sad-Truth’ there doesn’t seem to be any wealthy funds for another Independent Party! Just for Obama’s swearing in as Presidents ‘party’, they spent over $100 million bucks–that’s enough to run a candidate for President & the Advertising on National TV-! Both–Democrats & the Republicans have ‘Four-Aces’ or Royal-flushes in this Game of Politics-! You pay big–to play-!
        But about Turkeys, be sure he doesn’t see you coming-! Cheers

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        No struggle isnt attainable if you seek the right power to do it with. Remember a guy named Jesus that was put on a cross? There were 12 guys that carried His name along, and there are millions today. The only struggle one cant win, is the one he isnt willing to fight for and get his hands dirty over.

      • denniso

        Claire..Libertarians can’t get elected except in rare cases. We have a 2 party system…work w/in one of them for the positions you believe in rather than waste your time and energy in a fringe party.

      • Claire

        This is all very well and good, but I have lost respect for the Democrats, the Republicans, and basically all politicians. This last election frustrated the heck out of me! I became very weary of all the mud-slinging. I wanted to see and hear the truth,I wanted to see common sense and candidates that used their brains when they spoke instead of spewing the nonsense that came out of their mouths. The news media was disgusting, a person did not know what to believe, and the corruption here in Illinois this past year was unspeakable. I realize you can’t blame everyone but my gosh, don’t you wish for just once in a person’s lifetime that there would be somebody that would run for an office that would be honest, sincere, a truthteller, upstanding, courageous, thoughtful of America and her people? I guess I live in a fantasy world. Sorry, but right now I am in limbo.

  • Larry

    The lessons of liberty abound and they flow effortlessly because truth lives where lies perish. Unfortunately, we have a lot of liars.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Feinstein, Frank, Dodd, Biden, Obama, Clinton, Emanuel, Daschle, Dean, Bayh, Rangel, Sharpton, Jackson, just to name a few.

      • Claire

        Don’t forget to add Karl Rove, George W. Bush, Joe Lieberman, Joe Wilson, Boehner, Jindal, Guiliani, McCain, Palin, Sanford, just to name a few.
        Republicans and Democrats are of the “same cloth.”

      • DaveH

        We put them in that position thinking they should be able to best manage our lives. They can’t and they won’t. If we don’t care enough for ourselves to take good care of ourselves, then we sure can’t expect anybody else to do it.
        No politician can live up to those expectations, so the ones who get elected are the ones who tell us those sweet sounding lies.
        The only way out of this is to elect people that promise to cut back the size of government and put individuals back in control of their own lives. And if they don’t keep those promises – out they go in the next election.

      • Claire

        Very true–but look how long we have to wait until the next election! They all promise the moon and instead we receive meteors.
        I have always tried to vote for the person I felt would do the best job and be the best–somehow it never works out that way. Democrats or Republicans–never live up to their promises. But then again, sometimes the President’s hands are tied in some ways because of opposition. Look what is happening now. A mess. The elected people are supposed to be “smarter” than us. They were supposed to be intelligent and figure things out. All of their combined years of “experience” amounts to nothing. They certainly have not learned very much in all those years.
        Oh, I notice that Obama looks like his hair is turning grey. You have to admit being President (Republican or Democrat) would have to be extremely stressful and yes, frightening at times. How can they sleep? It is a tough job to have.

      • DaveH

        Claire,
        The first thing people need to realize is that the politicians aren’t ‘smarter’ than we are. They are just our neighbors who have assumed the right to make our choices. And even if they were, could they possibly know what makes each of us individuals happy? Only we know what makes us happiest and we need to get them out of our individual choices.
        One point I’d like to make is that basically the government is like insurance. They insure us against misfortune. But the question is, if we knew how much that insurance was costing us, would we voluntarily purchase it? Think about how much you pay in all taxes each year (roughly about 40% of your income) and then ask yourself how much they actually do for you. It’s like buying insurance for $1000 when the most you can ever get back (having suffered misfortune) is $500.

        This country became great under Limited Government (in the past) and is becoming mediocre under Big Government.

      • Billy

        That’s reason to vote everyone out of office. And not to vote anymore lawyers in.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Sounds very good and wise BILLY.
        But, if past performance records are sealed and hidden anywhere the public has no access to and the so called news media is not willing to investigate and give us no intelligent facts, How are we to know who is a Lawyer, Doctor or any other form of intellect to cast a vote for?

      • DaveH

        Dee,
        Here are two sources to see exactly how your Representatives are voting:
        For the House of Representatives
        http://clerk.house.gov/

      • DaveH

        For the Senate:
        http://www.senate.gov/

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Dave – I do indeed follow the votes taken in all three houses. I do a lot of research myself and some of my opinions I do not declare. If you will notice, I ask a lot of questions. I do not try to influence any one to belong to any particular party. I really want all to research on their own to educate themselves and not rely on hearsay.
        I do not like stupid ideas from people who have done no research when they make it so obvious of whom they are repeating and there is no substance in their remarks. Only mimes playing a game that perhaps they truly believe in. For these people, I pity because when all the roosters come home to roost these very same people are at a loss as to why it happened.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I would agree Billy to vote out the incumbants to send Washington a message, that we are the ones with the power, not them, and if they dont do what we demand, they are gone.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        AMEN Claire – Tell it like it is.

      • ’53 Korean Vet

        For Dee & Claire & Dave–My hard, but helpful information came from a web-site– http://www.discoverthenetworks.org & then click on ‘Individuals’ like Jane Fonda, or Barack Obama– Had Details–the General Voters did not have for this past election… You asked who are the Lawyers? You got the Details on where they even went to School– Cheers

      • Jana

        53 Korean, I went to that site. Wow, I had no idea Keith Olbermann was so bad. I will use this site often.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Shoot, I love all those guys, except for McCain. He is too far left for me. Thats why he lost the election. It was a young lefty versus the old lefty, and the young lefty won. Palin would have kicked his butt.

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      Yes, Larry and when we are not being lied to they are trying their best to get all to hop on board for whatever cause they believe in.
      Everyone must do what they believe is best for themselves without anyone trying to lead them.
      Give me facts that I can check out – who knows, I may jump on board, but in the end it has to be what I want to do and not what you tell me I must do.

      • DaveH

        Dee,
        Read this book. It’s free online and it’s an eye-opener. It was written in the 70s so some of the examples are outdated but the principles are timeless:
        http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

        There are later releases in Libraries, and maybe for purchase online but I haven’t checked that out.

  • Denese

    Wouldn’t it be great if our children learned actual history in schools rather than the liberal re-writing of history that they get in their school books and from their teachers? Everyone should read this to their children and anyone else who will listen. If we don’t learn from our mistakes we will repeat them. Our government leaders should learn this lesson from the Pilgrims instead of trying to take us down the road to Socialism/Communism.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And soon the revisionist history the left writes, will have chapters in their history books about Barack Obama being the greatest thing since sliced bread. Gimme a break. How do they get away with it?

      • DaveH

        We need to push hard for the Voucher System so that people don’t have to send their kids to the Propaganda Schools.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Please don’t contradict yourself Dave.
        What are vouchers but federal handouts?
        Private schools have turned out a lot of one party citizens. Public schools cannot do the same. It’s illegal.

      • DaveH

        Contradiction? Most public schools spend more money per student than private schools do. I am talking about choice and even for less money. How is that contradictory? I thought you Liberal women advocated choice?
        http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp-025.html

      • DaveH

        And to your last sentence Dee, all I can say is “mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama”.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Dave: Maybe you are told that public schools spend more money per pupil than private schools. But I’m in a position to know first hand just how much many teachers pay for supplies out of their pockets to give their students the proper tools to learn with. Parents also lack in this department. They should supply their children the tools necessary for education but first they need to drive home that school is a place to learn, not to play around, pick on other students, laugh at other students for their attire or dirty and smelly clothes.
        Does the private sector have a clue on how a lot of money is wasted on many frivolous and unnecessary programs our school board approves of?
        Does anyone know just how much money is being made at sporting events, concession booths, and rental of the rooms in the schools to different groups for special events. Play’s, dancing recitals etc.?
        How many people really get involved in their childrens activities to try and learn anything?
        If we are unable to get involved at a local level and try to help to improve the situation and hold our administration responsible for the betterment of our future leaders how in heavens name can we expect our voters to truly get involved at a federal level to try to make a difference?

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Dave – I also advocate intelligent choices to be made by all. But who of us are so super intelligent that it is our right to make any decision for anyone other than ourselves? We will be the one to answer for every decision we make,right or wrong.
        To what tune are you mmmmm mmmmm mmmming Barack Hussein Obama to?
        You don’t have to play coy with me. I trust very few politicians but I refuse to kick anyone and profess to have all the answers while they are down.
        I do not want anyone to swear by any opinion I post. Please, don’t take my word for anything. Research for yourself. You may learn a thing or to or maybe get over tunnel vision.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Evidently your schools are different than those here. The public school teachers here want to shove Ritalin down all the childrens throats so that they dont have to be bothered with doing their jobs. I am one parent that was involved in my kids growing up and helping them, and guiding them, but the school system is a total failure. They give work that isnt allowed to be done in the classroom, and the teacher sits there and reads books. Not just one teacher, all of them in every class room I sat in with my child on those days, you know, where you go to school with your child. I was appalled. I remember very clearly when I went to school, to actually being taught. It doesnt happen anymore. Pretty much, the failure of the school system, is a two pronged problem. No discipline, and crappy teachers that just dont care. Thats about it. I know, I was there and watched it first hand, with two children that were 3 years apart. It stinks.

      • ’53 Korean Vet

        Dee D– You said you were in position to know how much Teachers had to pay for poor students’ supplies– My question is this–How much do today’s Teachers have to pay for NEA Dues–in order to be certified to teach, this being controlled by the Union’s Officers, who endorsed giving Dues-Funds to compaigns to overturn the “Defense of Marriage” Amendments in various States! Just think if they didn’t have to pay these Union-Dues–they might have more money for students’ supplies! Isn’t this True or False-!? This isn’t to put you down–just to supply other posters with information–they may not know-!

      • Phil

        Poor Dee contradicts herself within each paragraph she writes. She reminds me of the typical liberal who thinks she knows it all but really knows nothing. But she is ready to push her vacuous views on everyone else.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I would believe that she is of the thought tank to just keep pouring more and more money into it and itll be allright. You and I both know that isnt the solution, but she doesnt get it.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Phil – Please by all means educate me. Show me where I have contradicted myself and I will thank you and blow you a kiss.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        BeBe: No teacher gives any student any kind of medication, not even an aspirin. Fear of being sued by parents who do not educate their children.
        If a student slaps a teacher the teacher is not allowed to defend themselves again a lawsuit.
        A teacher must not try to teach any morality to a student. That’s a parents job. lawsuit
        A teacher cannot even give a needing child a hug – lawsuit and lies about perverted actions. If any of you doubt what I’m saying – volunteer to substitute for even a short stint for any teacher in any classroom and learn for yourself.

      • Jana

        Phil, I have come to the realization that DeeD, although probably a very nice person is still a Socialist. This is what we don’t want for our country, Socialism.

      • denniso

        Dee D is trying to have a civil discussion and you people can only resort to name calling!!Why can’t you resist that tactic? Is it because your own positions are so weak that you have nothing substantive to say, so all you can do is label her and call her names? Grow up!!!

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    Recently we read about the 20th anniversary celebration of the fall of the Berlin Wall and communism. And yes, that was a great moment during the Reagan/Bush era. Whoever dreamed back then that today we would have the antithesis – a leftwing radical Marxist in The White House? It’s amazing to think of how so much of the world has rejected communism and gotten rid of it over the past two decades. But thanks to some 63,000,000 stupid voters on 11/4/2008, we are going in the direction of what Russia and East Germany used to be. If we don’t get rid of this leftwing Congress and administration in 2010 and 2012, we may have a big wall to tear down in our future!!

    • kattie chg.

      Earl, I second that motion! However, I dont think we have that amount of time, to wait, surely we can’t wait for another presidential election.
      Pelosi, Reid, all of them must go immediately! We have to have a clean sweep of the entire administration, NOW…Obama has to go! I dont have an answer or solution..on the web AmericanGrandJury.org, it appears Obama has enough of his cronies in there, we can’t get him impeached.
      Happy Thanksgiving to all, pray for our country!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Im not so sure they were all stupid, as they were ignorant, and hypnotized by the brain sucker in their living rooms saying change-change-change to the tune of millions of dollars. Uneducated people pulled that lever. I hope they have learned now.

  • Robert

    Very nice informative article. Makes one reassess their own life and ponder about their future.

  • Bob

    The majority of Americans under 40 are products of a dumbed down education system that changes history to meet a liberal, anti-God point of view. You can thank the ACLU for that. It is great to hear the Thansksgiving story as it happened vice the political correct version. America must wake up and think before it dies like the ealy Pilgrims did not realizing free-enterprise is what God intents for man. Since the 41st Cogress was seated America has been brain-washed by those who beleive in communism and in 2008 they accomplished a major gaol in their quest to take down America. 2009 could be the end if Americans do not stand up for what has made America great, the knowledge that America exists only because of God’s blessing.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      The ACLU – Anti-Christ-Lawyers-Union. They should be banned from the United States of America.

      • Bob

        The ACLU should definitely banned in America. I like to call it the Anti Christ Lucifers Union

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Thanks Bob. You got it right.

    • James

      Bob, Amen, it could even be argued we are now under God’s judgment.

    • http://www.ourlivingconstitution.com Dennis

      Our Constitution has been under attack since 1860 (election of Abraham Lincoln). Prior to Lincoln Henry Clay was the champion for Strong Cenralized Federal Government. Prior to Henry Clay it was Alexander Hamilton. The work we have before us is an accumulation of 150 years of legislation and thought process that must be turned back. If not for ourselves, then for children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren.

      My wife and I have been writing issue letters to congress based upon concepts documented in the US Constitution. We believe the US Constitution provides us with all the tools required to return our country to it’s greatness.

      We have published our letters at http://www.ourlivingconstitution.com. Please feel free to read the letters, copy the letters, modify the letters, and send the letters to your senators and representatives.

  • s c

    How true. And, how sad it is that our public, GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS continue to teach LIES about what made America great. It needs to be said that budding communists and assorted lowewr life forms don’t quit trying to influence one generation after another is their claim that ‘just because it didn’t work in Russia and China or anywhere else in the world doesn’t mean it won’t work HERE.’ RETARDS!
    Even the rockheads in Russia and China learned the hard way that capitalism works. Capitalism has had a rough time in America recently because it’s been constantly MANIPULATED by scum who should have been put in front of a firing squad. Communism is a self-made curse.
    God bless America and everyone who wants to keep it FREE. As for the rest, their master(s) can take care of them. They sold their souls to the “lowest” bidder. Enough said.

    • DaveH

      Capitalism only goes awry when government steps in with their bailouts, subsidies, and regulations to aid certain favored companies.
      Without Big Government the citizens would determine with their purchasing power which businesses fail and which businesses succeed.
      Big Government is the problem not the solution.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I agree Dave. Let the free market system work. If a company has a product I want, I will gladly pay for it. If they price it too high, I will either not buy it, or I will go to their competitor. If they continually make junk, people will stop buying it, and those companies will go belly up. Until that is, the government gets in the way, and gives certain choice companies billions of dollars to keep operating. I have to ask, why? Why reward failure? Why not reward success? Instead, government punishes those that succeed by taxing them more and more, and rewards those who fail by giving them billions. If they would just back off and let things take its course, business will take care of itself. Those that make a good product tht we willingly buy will live. Those that dont, will die. Why does the government throw good money after bad? Why do they even need to get involved? It is none of their business. Government intrusion screws up everything.

      • DaveH

        They are just buying votes.

      • Claire

        Food for thought: All the companies that moved abroad–were they overtaxed or did their employees demand too much money, benefits, etc.? I sometimes think we became too greedy or the companies became too greedy. Maybe both. The people in foreign countries will work a 12-hour shift or longer for a couple of bucks an hour. We as Americans do demand more, don’t you think? I have often thought about this, I wonder if we shot ourselves in the foot in some ways. I really dislike buying items made in foreign countries. I go out of my way to buy USA-made items. It is tragic, I am very happy when I find something made in the USA. How sad this is.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Claire – Clinton proposed the NAFTA pact to the Republican controlled Senate and it passed. Never mind that it was originally Bush Sr’s baby.
        Since it’s passage, the next twelve years of all three houses have been rewarding our manufacturers for relocating elsewhere for the cheaper labor. Blaming the workers and the unions for all ails. Like dummies we consumers put the icing on the cake. Now, today it is almost impossible to find anything made in America.
        Let’s build more WALMARTS so they can accomplish their agenda and run all our old faithful retailers out of business. Then we will pay their price or do no shopping at all.

      • DaveH

        “It’s impossible to find anything made in America” because the Unions have driven jobs out of America. If it wasn’t for foreign ‘slave labor’ many products would be unaffordable for most Americans. Sure the Union workers would be happy as they gouged the rest of us. Without foreign auto competition we would be taking out mortgages to buy our cars. One real factor that could be changed is the amount of our financial resources that are being drained by Government. Let’s cut the size of government and put those former civil servents back to doing something productive. Imagine how cheap our products would be if we had more of our citizens working in productive capacities instead of hasseling people like most government workers do now.

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      BeBe – It isn’t that the teachers do not want to help any student, in fact they all want to have students who are brilliant and can excel.
      For starters they have on the average of 30 pupils to a class.
      Cheney/Bush mainstreamed all students under the NCLB rule and that added to teachers problems and really hurt the brighter students.
      I do not want to say any child is handicapped, so I will say some may be slower than others. When any teacher is trying to educate all students it is impossible to give extra attention to 4 or 5 students who are unable to understand any problem anyway.
      God love all children but there are some who needs extra attention to grasp even trivial problems and yes they need to mix with their peers in many instances, but today most students jeer and laugh at any one who is a little different. That is one reason so many children go off center in many cases, destroying themselves and other innocents. That’s one reason I am for more parents being held responsible for their children’s actions. But alas, it’s easier to blame the teachers who have guidelines they have to follow and teachers have to waste a lot of time (taken away from teaching the 3 R’s) to prepare their students for the all important SAT tests (that are drafted by people who have never taught in a classroom) that means money to the school.
      Thank you for taking a stance for your son – we need a lot more parents like you.

  • DaveH

    What brave people they were. Now many of our citizens want the government to care for their every need (at the expense of others).
    We have gone from a society of rugged pioneers to a society of wimps in just a few hundred years.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And its getting worse. In school, if a male shows one ounce of testosterone, they want to put him on ritalin. The dumbing down and softening of America continues. Thank the politcal correct left for most of this.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Make that the political left. I cut my fingers up today and have band-aids on 4 of them. Makes it hard to type.

      • DaveH

        Sounds like you need some Nationalized Health Care. Just kidding.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        No thanks Dave, Im a working man, I cant afford what they want to do. Now if I was one of those worthless cats sitting on the porch drinking 40′s all day and smoking cigarettes, Id be all for it. I mean, wow, to get workers like me to pay for everything for them. What a deal, eh?

      • Jana

        Boy, you hit on something here that is a raw nerve with me: the feminizing of the men. Men wearing pink ties and pink shirts. Some of them look downright pretty and that is a shame. They need to look handsome, not pretty. They need to look like a man!

        I think I am going to start carrying some pretty pink lipstick and offer it to the next male in pink that I see.

      • Claire

        Jana—I have to disagree with you on this one especially if the men are waering pink for breast cancer awareness. I have a girlfriend that is going through chemo right now. The diagnosis is bleak. I could cry, in fact I have cried a lot lately but not around her. She is my friend and I will support her through this awful situation. Her husband wears pink to his office, and he IS a man to be proud of. Some of the men that wear pink are supporting breast cancer awareness. To me, that is not feminization. That is respect for the women who have this horrible disease from which most of them will die unless caught in time.
        Otherwise, I agree with you about the pink factor for men.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Jana and Claire – Clothes do not make the person. Color does not make the person. All are what they are from the inside out.
        I form opinions that I usually keep to myself about the people I come in contact with. What they are wearing is not the leading factor.
        The smile – bubbly personality – friendliness and warm hearts are the leading factors for me.
        I was watching The View one day when Whoopie was responding to a negative e-mail from a viewer about her dress attire.
        I admire that woman for telling it like it is – She said, I choose the clothes I wear for my comfort and my personal tastes. If you don’t like it you can kiss my a$$.
        That is my kind of person, one so secure they are able to live and dress in the manner they choose without allowing any bimbo to influence them one way or another.

      • Jana

        Clair and Dee D, I truly didn’t expect either one of you to agree with me.
        In the first place, having men become effeminate means women can control them better. Right now men are put down on television in almost every situation. In commercials men play the dumb ones. In movies men never understand anything and it is the females that have to save the whatever. In the movies, the women are also the aggressive ones in sex too.
        Sure men, go ahead and wear your pretty pink clothes and get weaker and weaker in society.

      • Claire

        Ahhhh, the emasculation of men. Jana–you do have a point. But apparently the men don’t mind being portrayed as such, especially in movies–look at all the money they make!

      • Jana

        Clair, You are so right. Now they even have one supposed ‘man’ in a commercial carrying a purse. Oh excuse me, its a European shoulder bag.

        Still makes him look silly, and weak. How sad that we are convincing our children that men are supposed to be weak, and fathers aren’t really that important because they are bumbling baffoons who can’t think for themselves unless the wife or the child tells them how to think, and teaches them that men are probably not even necessary in the family.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Jana and all posters:
        Thought I would give some a little up-dated news for fuel that’s going on and maybe a few laughs as well.

        There are over 100 icebergs drifting toward New Zealand. Is it possible or probable that Gore and Obama traveled North and kicked them loose to prove a point on global warming?

        Could Obama be guilty of going to Central Pennsylvania and cuttin a pipe at the 3-mile Island plant to cause the radiation leak?
        Maybe we need more plants LIKE 3-MILE scattered throughout all of America. That could be a faster way to kill off the residents in greater numbers.

        I wonder if Obama dreamed up 37 more charges for 2nd term Rep. Mark Sanford to face?

        Can we give Obama just a small tad of credit? Home sales rose 10.1% in October. Better not give him the credit, he might get a big head.

        I always figured there was more and deeper reasons for the illegal war in Iraq besides oil and killing Hussein. I just don’t think our Government cares about any citizen in any country based on the way they treat us Americans here at home. I just wasen’t smart enough to connect all the dots. Since Halliburton was given contracts by Cheney in Iraq after Afghanistan the dots are coming together for any interested enough in learning just how all citizens and our country have been sold out for a long time and is still being sold out.
        Pratap Chatterjee done an article on Paying off the War Lords—
        endemic nature of corruption and nepotism also in Afghanistan –
        a case study of what a mess American reconstruction efforts are in that country, established by Cheney/Bush/Halliburton’s army/and a well connected Texas Oil Company, revolutionized the way America makes war. I personally thought Tony Blair was in on it too, but if he has nothing to do with Texas Oil, I was wrong about him. I wonder how many refineries the Bush’s own and operate with illegals? I can see why Cheney/Bush wanted to legalize so many of them.
        If you are interested in learning more about this and even a piece on one of your hero’s – Palin go to CORPWATCH Website and Tom Dispatch.com

        HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL

      • Jana

        DeeD

        Your worrying about global warming does make me laugh. I guess you haven’t heard what the New York Times has uncovered. From the very scientists who are proposing all of this global warming garbage. How they have been twisting the facts to make them come out like they want etc.
        When we see the unemployed go back to work, then we can give Mr. O some credit, until then no. All that is happening right now with the economy is the government is spending all of the money, and printing more money. That is not helping our economy. Get the people back to work. Give incentives to the businesses to hire.
        So far O has failed. His approval rating is going down.

        For the rest of your diatribe which has been debated about with the liberal and Socialists for a long time now, I know it would do no good to even go there with you as you do not want to hear the truth or know the truth.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Dont forget the man purse thing. I see guys with those, and some think themselves to be pretty cool with them. I think, what a gay boy.

      • Claire

        I agree about the Ritalin issue. If a child has any type of behavior problem, doctors immediately put them on Ritalin. It is nuts. My neighbor’s grandson is on the stuff and she tells me he is wackier than ever. A lot of kids are taking this stuff and I have an eerie feeling about this drug.

      • DaveH

        Claire,
        Just my opinion, but I have observed that many of the ADD diagnosed children are extremely intelligent. They can’t sit still in public school because they are bored out of their pea-pickin brains. So the school officials want to drug them so they can be docile well-behaved students.
        I have a better idea. Put them in classes that will challenge them and keep their attention instead of drugging them up.
        Isn’t it ironic in our day and age of drug wars that government officials try to force parents to drug their kids?

      • Claire

        I think you hit the nail on the head! I will have to ask my teacher friends if they have classes for students that excel. Hopefully they do. Our state is in bad shape. We are rated #4, right behind California, therefore no extra funding for education. About 25-30 years ago, they started the Lottery and it was SUPPOSED to be for education. Yeah, right. It went into the politicians pockets.
        I guess the doctors and some parents believe this is an easy way out–keep them drugged and you won’t have to deal with it. It bothers me, because what happens when the kids are taken off of it? To me, it is scary.
        Most doctors want to give prescriptions for anything and everything. My husband has some health issues and I make a point to keep track of his medications-what they are for and what the side effects are. And I question the doctors if I have to.
        Sorry for rambling!

      • libertytrain

        DaveH – you might be on to something – education is certainly not challenging anymore unless you are lucky enough to get some good teachers but they too, often have their hands tied as to what they can do – I think the large city schools are probably the worst – small towns are usually a little better – that’s just been my experience – I’m not proclaiming any expertise on education -

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        This hits a nerve with me. When my son was in elementary school, they always made him sit in a grade above the one he was in, because he was bored with the simpleness of the subject matter. And he always got straight A’s. When he got into 7th grade, they would give them an assignment, not let them work on it in the classroom, and were told to take it home and do it as homework. So he was supposed to sit there for an hour in each class, doing absolutely nothing but sit there. He is a red blooded athletic all American boy male. He would get bored and get silly. The school decided he was hyperactive and needed to be on Ritalin. I told them over my dead body. So they made me take him to a doctor and to some A.D.D. tests, that cost me 468.00 because insurance wouldnt pay for it. The results came back, from the doctor, who said no way this child needs to be on Ritalin, he is quite brilliant. The problem was, the teachers didnt want to have to do their job in teaching these children. I was ticked that they do not do work in the classroom, but give it to them to take home. Then what the hell is the school room for? I got into it pretty good about this. There is a generation of children on this Ritalin crap that doesnt need to be, especially males that show any sign of testosterone, they want to feminine them down. Its not right, and I for one stood up and say no. I suggest other parents do the same. Problem is, a lot of this starts at home, where the parent doesnt want to be bothered with being a parent, much like the teachers at school, so they willingly put their kids on drugs so that they can shirk their duties. Man, Im telling you, there ought to be a law against this. Its just not right.

  • James

    Amen, for once we all agree! I would just remind us, that the second great experiment in communism we had was the 12 years of FDR. When he took office in March, 1933, tens of thousands had lost their farms, hundreds of thousands had lost their homes, and 25% of Americans were unemployed. In 1941, 20% were still unemployed. FDR had nationalized the entire economy (6 of his boondoggles were been declared unconstitutional). In U.S. v. Butler, the Agriculture Adjustment Act was declared unconstitutional, wherein the High Court held that Congress lacked power to tax one group for the benefit of another. (The AAA taxed food processors then gave that money to farmers.)
    Sound familiar?

    • Deb

      Then how can they get away with taxing smokers to pay for CHIP?

      Or the current spread the wealth plans they have now?

      Maybe I am being to “general”.

      • DaveH

        Because the people have let them.

      • James

        Deb, DaveH is right, the constitution doesn’t enforce itself. And those who do file lawsuits must have been harmed by the law they are contesting. For example the Health Care bills will tax the rich for the benefit of the poor, that is simply transferring wealth from one group for the benefit of another, but only the rich could contest it.
        Our problem is, most Americans think Congress has power to do whatever they want or can convince people of what they need. But the only powers Congress actually has are enumerated in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution – read it. If that weren’t true their powers would not have been listed.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Because first they tax the smokers until they all quit, and the tobacco farmers are out of work. Then the realized how much tax money they have lost, so next they go after the alcohol users. After they destroy that industry, they will realize a lot of people eat cereal, so they will tax that to death. Then the candy bar eaters, then the twinkie eaters. They will always been searching somewhere to get more money in the tax coffers, when all they have to do is stop all this silly and stupid taxes, and let people and business have most of their money, and they would find that business then would grow, and more people would have jobs, and all these people would have more money to spend in all the stores and business’s around town, and the tax flow would grow and grow. But the left is too damn dumb to see it. I dont know why, they just cant see how their taxes screw things up. Look what just mentioning that a democrat was going to win this last election did to the economy. As soon as it became evident that Obama would win, everything shut down, in order to get ready to pay the tax monsters. Thats just how it is.

      • ’53 Korean Vet

        Yes, Beberoni– Does everyone know that there are over 20 taxes just on Bread-! They’re known as “Hidden-Taxes” because you don’t realize that you’re paying them as they ‘Trickle down’ from each industry! This is why I stand “Opposed” to Obama’s ‘Trap & Trade’, because of the “Fines” on Power-Corporations will double our Utility-Bills, & you ‘Tax-payers’ will “Pay these Hidden-Taxes” even though you make less than $90,000 per year! (That’s a ‘Fair-Trade’, isn’t it!?) Obama said “Let me make it Clear–that nobody will have a tax-increase that makes less than $149,000 per year-!” He’s said it over & over 12 times in his speeches–if you still believe him & his broken promises!

    • s c

      James, thank you much for the info on Franklin D ‘dumb ‘em down’ Roosevelt [progressivism's 'gift' to America]. If people understood FDR better, they might understand how comrade obama is nothing less than FDR-on-steroids.
      History teachers who taught in the late ’50s and early ’60s must be incensed at what happened in American classrooms, and rightfully feel that ‘modern’ history teachers should be washing dishes for a living (in Cuba) – especially scuzzy historical revisionists who attended Harvard and wandered into politics.

      • Another James

        The teachers of the 50′s and 60′s were teaching the students who went to college in the 60′s and 70′s, the liberal arts majors who are now running and ruining our great country. So I agree that those teachers would be appalled at the level of misdirection and misinformation being tossed at our children in the name of education. One solution is for all of us to make sure our children learn ALL of the facts about historical events, especially events we lived through which are poorly represented in their textbooks. Unless parents or a parent have the luxury to send their children to a proper private school that actually readys a student for college, the poor education received in most government schools is pathetic.
        This was an interesting read and my son who is looking over my shoulder said “what is this about sharing everything?” I said it is technically not sharing but redistributing. The ones who work the land to grow food are doing it so everone can eat and then some of the non-workers are doing “pantry raids” stealing food from the rest of the group. So you see redistribution does not now nor has it ever worked for very long. Any government that tried it failed miserably within a few decades, look back in history. The destruction of a country comes when a relatively smooth running system is replaced by government running everything in the futile and foolish attempt at creating a utopian society. A utopian society can only work if there are unlimited resources and a willing worker class to provide the labor for the rest of the group (Willing slaves). That my friends will never happen. So the next best thing (in socialist or statists minds) is what liberals (Democrats) are doing which is taking from one group to give to others, lining their friends pockets in the process. Free enterprise and people having some freedom from unconstitutional taxation is the best way to grow an economy, grow GDP, increase jobs for citizens, and be a strong world leader. The rate the liberals are going China is going to be the next great world power and we will fall just as the Soviet Union did. Imagine the United States as being split up into a few different countries. The south may get a chance at secession after all as a separate country.
        I personally would like to see America as the strong world power that helps the little guys all over the world remain that way. The bowing to communist and terrorist leaders by our new president is an insult tantamount to spitting on the graves of our fore-fathers and everything they planned for this great country as well as all the great men and women who gave their lives in the defense of our liberties and freedoms both here and abroad. Anyway, we need to educate our children so they know the whole truth and not just the short paragraph versions spewed from the mouths of liberal so-called educators.

      • DaveH

        Another,
        Isn’t it ironic that China is learning from the Free Market experiences of Hong Kong and may someday be more free and robust than the United States which pioneered modern freedom?
        As far as being the “world power that helps the little guys”, I think we would be more effective by giving them a shining example of the rewards of freedom and keeping our military home except for retaliation against those who attack us. People resent foreign occupiers even if they otherwise agree with them. Imagine for example how you would feel if Canadian military was policing our country, or if Mexican military was policing our coutry.

      • James

        S C, you’re right, 60 Minutes interviewed president-elect Obama, and the interviewer held up a just-published book “The First One Hundred Days” which listed all the socialist legislation the FDR Administration had sent to their rubber-stamp Congress, and asked Obama if he had seen it. He said “yes” and that he intended to follow it. He said FDR was his hero. Unfortunately that is true with most Americans, any poll ever taken on popular American presidents has always listed FDR in the top three. I believe that’s an example of the major media proclaiming something and the sheeple repeating it.

      • DaveH

        James,
        FDR’s policies kept us in 10 years of Depression. Can you imagine what the left would say about a Republican who kept us in 10 years of Depression?

      • Claire

        OMG–here I was led to believe FDR was wonderful. Now this.

      • DaveH

        Claire,
        Many years ago I dared to tell a co-worker that FDR got our country on the path to ruin. He came unglued. How could I disparage such a hero?
        Believe me though, I am by no means alone in my opinion of FDR.
        http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=49

      • Phil

        Dave is right. Most scolars now agree that it wasn’t FDR’s policies that brought us out of the Great Depression. It was WWII and the jobs that industries created. It it widely believed that the USA would have come out of the Depression more quickly if FDR’s plan wasn’t implemented.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You speak the truth about FDR. We are still paying today for some of the things he did. But to the left, he walks on water. Not true. He did a lot of damning things, and he also out and out lied over and over again to congress and to the American people to get what he wanted to build the Hoover Dam. And then there is that thing about voluntary tax paying, that we are still getting hosed with today. Gee, thanks FDR.

  • http://honeypapa@gmail.com philip

    GOD BLESS AMERICA THIS THANKSGIVING. MAY WE LEARN FROM THE WISDOM OF THE PILGRIMS EXSPERIANCES. WE NEED NOT FOLLOW OBAMAS WAY OF FAILER AND HIS SOCIALIST MARIXIST AGENDA. THE PILGRIMS SHOWED US THAT SOCIALISM DOSE NOT WORK, AND FREE ENTERPRIZE DOSE. SEND A COPY TO OBAMA, POLSI, REID, AND CONGRESS, AND THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES. THANK YOU BOB AND HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING

    • http://Google Helmut S Lenko

      English is not my “mother tongue”, Philip; in fact our small European country was taken over by Russia, but we were lucky enough to escape to Canada where we had relatives…I cannot believe your level of incompetence in spelling-it’s beyond belief! I suggest you get yourself a cheap dictionary from Walmart; God bless you too, keep trying!{ie expsper-iances,failer,marixist,dose -2x,enterprize,polsi}
      Retired Insurance Agent….

      • libertytrain

        Helmut – tolerance of someone’s spelling would be appreciated – not everyone can easily see the keyboard – or any number of reasons their spelling is not up to par with what some expect – again, find tolerance – -

      • Jana

        Helmut, I am so glad that you were able to learn to read and write English so well.
        Not all are capable of doing so however, as some people have dyslexia, or this may not be his native tongue either, or as was said above, maybe he just can’t see very well.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Especially when they were nice and polite and trying to make a decent factual statement. Now when someone writes in and is just lambasting someone spewing out their vitrial hatred, and mis-spells everything, then you can lay into them. But give this guy a break. He was being nice.

  • Nora Hernandez

    Thank you for this excellent story. A reminder we all need, and one that I will be sure my children read.

  • Ann

    This articled reminded me of a series I had watched recently on one of our local religion channels….the particaular series from “Drive Through History” chronicled the founding of America and began in England with William Bradford, throughout the entire series from the pilgrims through to our Independence, minute references were seeded in that it would do well for our current government to take heed to the past, at the time I wanted to buy the complete series and send it to Washington.

    Good Job on this story and I would encourage all to locate the series I am referring to it is a wonderful history lesson.

  • http://www.tomdphotography.com Thomas D Dittmer

    Great article! Oh should the children of our society be so learned as to understand our government’s welfare state will leave us high and dry with no way to protect us from those who would cause us harm! I will forward this article to many – a great lesson is contained here. Pay back your debts – not bankruptcy. Honor your word. Not likely will a community collective flourish. Just a couple of things I got from this article – should be mandatory reading for all – including those who consider themselves elite and above the rest of us common folk!

  • Rick

    They were obviously anti-SEIU/ACORN people – ahead of their time!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Thank you. You have that one right.

  • Nathan Hale

    This should be required reading for those in power and those that put them there. Unfortunately this bunch will not read and learn from history. They regard history as “just a bunch of dead white guys”. Now because of their ignorance and arrogance we are condemned to repeat history. God help us!

  • Wanda Fournier

    I had never heard this part of history – Thank you for sharing it – I will share it with my family at this year’s Thanksgiving dinner.

  • nilo

    The Pilgrims learned not to be a welfare society where others worked to provide what they could provide for themselves. It didn’t work 380 years ago, and it won’t work today. GOOD ARTICLE.

    America has been conditioned to be a welfare society. Our children have been dumbed down. God is being kicked out, and we now see the fruits of our indifference to these things as we have laid back and taken our ease in materialism. What has been taking place for a long time is about to culminate in a loss of our nation’s soverengnity and the Constitutional guarrantees that our founders put in place. When Ben Franklin was asked after the Constitution was constructed, “what have you given us”, he replied, “a republic if you can keep it”. CAN WE? Only if we turn to God as a nation and stop this moral and political maddness! And only if we become vigilent again. PRAY FOR AMERICA.

  • John Weaver

    Enlightening reminder that we learn from the past as we forge the future

  • Ann N Proffitt

    This is going to all my Grandchildren! Just in case they may be influenced otherwise.

  • linda sandwich

    The AAPS (American Assoc of Physicians and Surgeons) published a pamphlet a few years ago titled, “the first thanksgiving”. You may look them up and request it. We read it at the Thanksgiving table that year and will plan to do it again. Thanks for the reminder!!

  • KAOS

    Great history lesson!!! It is to bad our public schools no longer teach these lessons anymore, it doesn’t fit into thier agenda.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Great point. Our schools are no longer interested in teaching the truth to children. Instead they are hell bent on teaching their liberal agenda. The teach revisionist history, so it can read the way they want it to, instead of how it really was. I dont know where they got off track, but its been that way for quite awhile, and its only getting worse, and costing 10 times a much.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        No LIBERAL agendas is being taught in our public schools – nor CONSERVATIVE agendas either. Except in private schools that our tax dollars and vouchers support.
        Education today is being produced for the biggest amount of dollars that can be had from the government,property owners and any other avenue the incompetent administrators the school board elects to operate our educational programs.
        It’s so very important for our schools to produce healthy and strong sport figures so they can participate in all sports. Forget the education, grade the athletes on a curve so the dummies can participate in sports. Instead of educating the students lets furnish them with workout rooms, swimming pools, tennis and basketball courts and indoor and outdoor tracks.
        Teachers are no longer able to educate their students as they must follow all guidelines established by non-educators who have never spent a day teaching in the classrooms.
        The $$$$$$$$ have become the gods of all in our country (including the reps. in Washington) and to what extent some are willing to go to get all they can get.
        Lord help our teachers, had they realized all the money they payed to become educators (for our future citizens) would only reduce them to nose and butt wipers and not true educators.

      • Claire

        Dee D–You are absolutely correct in what you have posted. I opted to send my two kids to a Lutheran grade school and I have no regrets. Since we belonged (and still do) to the Lutheran church I sent them to Lutheran schools because of the turmoil in the local public schools. And one of the problems was racism. There, I said it but it was the truth at the time. At the time there was a lot of fighting amongst the kids and it scared me. Kids getting beat up and stabbed. I am not not stretching the truth here–it happened. Plus the fact that the economy in my state was so bad they chopped the school day to one-half day!! It is no wonder the kids in this state are not the most knowledgable. The teachers have a hard row to hoe and it isn’t getting any better. I also believe parents should try to teach and help their kids with their schoolwork. I realize both parents work in most cases, but somehow they have to try to find the time.
        Liberal or Conservative agendas are not taught in our schools at the present time nor in the past. You are correct about the “sports” factor. It appears more time is spent on sports and not enough on the good old 3 R’s. Where I live, they post the learning grades and standings–they are not good. The average grade is C-D in most of the subjects and with a handful of students that have excelled. There are fund drives going on frequently, asking for donations to buy supplies for the teachers to use in class. It is pathetic. The state I live in is pathetic. The politicans (Democrat and Republican) have caused one hell of a mess. And now they expect us to vote for them, re-elect them and trust them. The irony of it all.

      • DaveH

        Claire,
        When I was in my 20s, it took only one worker to make a decent living. My wife could stay home and take care of the kids. Then along came Jimmy Carter. Soon it took 2 workers in the family to make a decent living. What a shame.
        Big Government is the problem, not the solution.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Sorry Dave – The mothers started working outside the home in the 40′s, before Carters time. So many of our men had to fight a war that the women had to fill in at the plants to make most of the equipment our men needed to fight with.
        Labor leaders, who up to that time thought that all women needed was to stay in the kitchen, pregnant and barefooted got their eyes open. Not only could the women do the job, but a lot faster, mistake free and for cheaper wages.
        The women learned also – We no longer had to follow our masters and cater to the men who agreed where womens lot in life was to remain. We could become independant. We had a long fight ahead of us but we gained a little ground.
        A working mothers job is 24/7. Work at a job, still do most of the work at home and still see to it our children were taken care of where a lot of males just sat on the couch, guzzling beer and watching their sports on the boob tube.
        There are husbands who do try to do their share but they are in the minority.
        Today, prisons are filled with children who had no guidance from either parent.

      • DaveH

        Dee,
        I have never met a woman who wanted to work if she had a choice. Heck, I don’t want to work, but of course we have to.
        I believe the women’s-lib stuff was started because Carter ruined our economy forcing women by necessity to join the work force. So, they convinced women that they were downtrodden and needed to work to get their self-esteem back.
        While we’re on that subject, if you believe that women need the pride generated by earning their own money, why do you support a political party that tries to make it easy for people to avoid working?

      • Jana

        Dave, I know you are right.
        In fact when I was rearing my children people would say “the workforce is going to pass you by.”
        Like I told them then, I am not stupid. After my children are grown I will pursue a career, and I did. I had a good one too.
        The reason children are in trouble now days is because they have no one at home who is there to listen to them. No one to welcome them home and show them love. Who is on your child’s side in the world if not you? If you aren’t teaching your children your values, they will be taught the world’s values by the other kids and even by the College Professors that are super Liberal Leftists.

        Just because a woman stays home doesn’t mean she isn’t smart. And one more point, if a woman marries a man that has a husband that just sits on the couch, guzzling beer and watching their sports on the boob tube, then that says you didn’t pick very good. It does matter who we pick to be the father of our children.

      • libertytrain

        DeeD – women have been working since the start of time – however, Dave is correct – the biggest changes occurred by necessity during Carter’s administration – at least it did for all the women I knew – whether they wanted to or not, work for both spouses became necessity. Everything changed re pricing during that time frame.

      • Jo

        what rock have you been under????

      • Claire

        Jo–if you are referring to me–maybe I was under the rock right next to yours.

      • Jo

        claire I was speaking to dee d.but now that you mention it we may be neighbors and remember we are supposed to love our neighbors.

      • Jo

        claire iwas responding to dee d’s statement about liberal agendas in schools.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Thank you Jo. But I did not crawl out from under a rock either.
        I also love my neighbors and I love the non thinking imbeciles that my God created. I guess he loves them the best tho because they refuse to use the brains he gave then and he made so many of them.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        PS. Jo – I forgot to mention, they also get to vote.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        By the way Jo- Two of my daughters are school teachers and my mother was also a school teacher in the early 1900′s, in one room school houses. I will repeat- there are no liberal or conservative agendas taught in public education. That’s illegal. It can only be taught in private schools because the same laws do not apply to the private sectors like in the public sectors.
        The powers that be does not want our future leaders to be educated. Too much education and they will lose the power to lead and it may destroy the lifestyles they have grown so accustomed to. What we don’t know cannot hurt them.

      • DaveH

        Can we avoid the personal attacks please?

      • DaveH

        It amazes me that people who do their thinking with their Lizard Brains have the gall to call others “non-thinking imbeciles”. For an explanation of Lizard Brain see this:
        http://www.instantbrainstorm.com/lizard_brain.html

      • Phil

        Dee unfortunately has drunk the Koolaid and bought the same old tired lie, that marxism is good, that it just hasn’t been tried by the right people. Tens of millions of people have been murdered while they try to find the “right” people to make this experiment work. Lo and behold, here comes another far left group to get this right. I wonder how it will work out this time?

      • Jana

        Dee D if you daughters believe the same weird things that you seem to believe, then I feel sorry for their students.

      • Steve B.

        NO liberal agend is being taught in our public schools???? Just what sand-pile is your head buried in, and for how long has it been buried there???!!! Folks, this is the result of the “dumbing down” of America!!!

      • Claire

        I live in a smaller town, and I have several friends that are teachers. One teaches in high school, and the other two teach in middle schools. They claim that the Liberal agenda the Conservative agenda are not taught. When they discuss history, politics in any form, they do not promote any way of thinking, they do not try to impress their ideals on the kids. I believe these women. They are trying to do their best in teaching the kids and trying to instill the importance of getting an education. They are not contributing to the “dumbing down” of America. The main problem here in our town is lack of funds. Now, in larger towns it may be different. And it is certainly different in higher education.

      • Jana

        Clair,
        Even the textbooks for our children have liberal agendas. If your friends/teachers are teaching from the textbooks, then they can’t help but teach liberalism, humanism, as well as a lot of distorted history.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I agree, see my other post explaining the liberal teachings of todays schools.

      • kilrntex

        No child left behind. That is the dumbing of America. It’s meant to slow down the average student so the idiots can catch up. They need two levels in each grade, one for normal students and one for those whose intelligence is subpar. Don’t punish everyone for the stupidity of the few. Drop them down a grade and if they can’t handle that, then they can always pick tomatoes or fruit. We still need those people too!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        So, your saying that teaching them that Johnny has two daddy’s instead of a mommy and daddy is ok, isnt liberal teaching? Or that we werent created by God, that isnt liberal teaching? Or that muslims love us and are our friends, that isnt liberal? Give me a break. And we cant pray in school, or say “One Nation Under God”. Now you tell me that isnt liberal. Unbelievable.

      • Michael

        “Liberal” no longer has meaning. Even so, publicly funded teachers are employed by taxpayers and thus cannot help but be influenced towards feeding the cow that feeds them. They in turn educate a generation of children that expect the cow to not only exist, but to grow as the population grows, and to add ever more social functions to the cow, and to remove from social memory any idea that the cow once did not exist.

        As these children become teachers and college professors they breed a whole ‘nother cycle of the same. Eventually you have brilliant people that are so indoctrinated that they are just plain wrong without being able to see it, so sure of themselves you cannot even engage such a person in rational debate.

        You see this most plainly at Ivy league colleges (google “Princeton” and “Decade of Greed” for an example). These students did not and cannot pay for their own education; someone else paid — OPM — other people’s money. It is a fantasy land, a Utopia, and they really do think they can change the world, but they are going to do it by changing YOU and using your money. It is their American right to TRY, but what is weird is that they really think it is fair, okay, acceptable to use my money for their programs.

        Just as Dee has written, the problem _is_ humanity! Until and unless you change the nature of human beings, make them more like ants, socialism cannot work.

        Religion exists to put bounds on behavior. Socialism is a type of religion, but lacking an absolute final authority it will always mean many things, the result of which is endless conflict and self-cancellation.

        Rosseau argues it very well in “Social Compact” or “Social contract” — there must be a mutually agreeable, transcendent authority for a society to exist. Socialism usually invokes Humanism which denies God, and hence, lacks the mutually agreeable transcendent authority to glue a nation together.

        To a certain extent, the Constitution is a “bible” and, so long as people reverence it, a kind of permanent foundation is given to this nation. However, as people trash the Constitution and change the meaning of its words that reverence will fail and so will the nation itself. People change the meaning of words in order to seek advantage over others. If you cannot change the law, change the meaning of the words and you have just changed the law.

        A test of your Constitution IQ: How many rights did the Bill of Rights create?

        None. It is a list of natural rights, pre-existing the Constitution and enumerated solely for the purpose of preventing the government from infringing upon those rights. There is little doubt that you have your favorites and some that you would like to take away; but don’t be in such a hurry to take away my rights, lest I be in a hurry to take away yours, and then no one has any rights at all.

        That is the fate of Socialism.

  • http://www.freedomspitchfork.com VWmama

    Great article! Thanks for helping us remember.

  • robert bontempi

    how we get people to read this good piece in this impatient society?

    • http://none Chip Wood

      How about forwarding this Personal Liberty Alert to a bunch of your friends — and asking them to send it on to a bunch of theirs? You can’t force anyone to read, of course, any more than you can force them to think — or to take personal responsibility. All we can do is to provide the right opportunities.

      Chip Wood

      • Jana

        I will, thank you.

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      Oh Jana – Me stoopid and bad. I did not say I was an immigrant – What I said was I will type slowly so you can keep up——————
      I AM AN AMERICAN BORN IMMIGRANT – LIKE MY FATHER AND MY MOTHER ALSO.
      The only way you can not be any kind of an immigrant is if you are a full blooded Indian as they were here when the rest of the world, came to and established America.
      Do you understand now?? Did I type slow enough for you?

      • Jana

        DD, you are just using a play on words. Nothing more nothing less.

  • Louis Gurske

    Thank you for putting us back to the beginning. We need very much to remember.

    • Jana

      Call your Senator today on whether you want the Senate to vote on whether or not to have a discussion on this Health Care Bill. They are voting on this tomorrow, Sat.the 21st. If they vote yes, it is almost a positive that it will go through.

    • Jana

      This truly is a great history lesson. I pray that we will not make these same mistakes again, as that is what this administration is trying to do to us.
      It didn’t work then, it won’t work now.

      We need to learn from history because if we don’t then we will have to suffer through some really bad years.

      • http://Yahoo.com Sue C

        Jana! Please do not be so naive! This administration is not communist! America was communist (in the hide) always. The only problem with most people, today, is that they forget, the past, and try to pin all the blame on President Obama. Remember! America is more than 2331/2 years old, and Pres. Obama has been the President of the USA only 10 months, today, 11/20/09. Thank you, Jana!

      • Helen

        You’re the one who’s naïve if you think Obama and his thugs aren’t out to remake this country by “redistributing” the wealth, what little will be left when they’re through spending. Wake up! Is this really the change you voted for?

      • DaveH

        Where do you get that stuff Sue? The US was started as a great experiment in freedom and limited Government. It was through the natural inclination of leaders to assume absolute power that we ended up where we are now. The citizens fell asleep as the leaders gradually increased their control over 2 centuries. This country became the great country it was because free citizens are productive citizens. Now Obama is tearing it apart faster than any past leader.
        You are the one who is naive if you think taking from the producers and giving to the non-producers is going to benefit the country.

      • eyeswideopen

        You want anarchy to rule in this country. Libertarianism is ethical egoism at it’s worst. You are fighting the Chrisitian belief of helping those who need it. The Christian religion is a socialist platform and we will have a hard time giving up our faith to go over to your side. Christians can’t walk by someone who is hurt or starving and keep going, and we aren’t supposed too.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        And this administration seeks to take us back to these trials. Allready they want to take from me and give to those who dont want to work,and this admin wants to baloon this to no end.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Can anyone tell me what the format for the John Birch society was?
        Also, it’s not JUST this administration that is taking us on a downhill spiral. Are we all so forgetful, we have mental blocks concerning all the others who have supposed to have been leading our once great country forward in a progressive manner to benefit all?
        No, lets not think for ourselves – it’s so very much easier and less time consuming to point the finger at one fall guy in particular. To do less would make us all look like the lazy villains we all have become.

      • Jo

        but dee obama is the one that took the job.it’s his repoonsability now! he promised change so how’s that hope and change comming along?Don’t be a sheep being led to slaughter be alamb who knows her master’s voice.

      • DaveH

        You’re right Dee, it’s not just one person, it’s Big Government in general. But Obama is campaigning hard to make it even bigger. Many of the very same people, who think Obama will save them, are being kept in poverty by policies that keep them from breaking free with hard work. The key to a good economy is to discover what it is that makes people want to work hard. Taking their rewards away is not one of those motivating factors.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Jo – I am not a sheep. I also take responsibility for my actions, right or wrong. I do not drink from the Kool-ade trough and I positively know that Fauxx is propaganda and not news. I think for myself.
        Obama’s platform promised an improvement to health care. With little co-operation from the other houses and the NO and Blue dog members he has accomplished more in less than a year than any other administration has accomplished in over 40 years. So far it has not been shelved like the many other times an administration has tried to dust it off and try again. Just who has been guilty of it’s failure for so many years and why? Why aren’t we entitled to reap some benefits for our financial support of our so called reps?
        Yes, Dave – I agree Government is too big. We people are the Government, so why do so many voters keep putting the same bums and wanna get rich scum bags into office election after election? So few do a little research and vote accordingly.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        PS Jo – Who has been fighting anything and everything Obama has tried to do. The man is damned if he does and if he doesn’t. Someone fights him on every and all issues. Yes. he took the job and I want to believe he took it in good faith to try to improve America’s lot in life in every aspect we all encounter. But liars, rubble rousers, haters, trouble makers and many many school yard bullies are out to see to it he fails.
        Obama is not a magician and he can’t improve everything the last administration left for him to clean up overnight or the first year he’s been in office. After all it took the last administration 8 years to get us in this mess.

      • DaveH

        What Obama has accomplished is an increase of $2 Trillion dollars in the National Debt, a takeover of many of our banks, and a takeover of GM. And now, he wants to take over our health care choices.
        He has grown government faster than any past president. And he has done this in 10 short months. I disagree Dee that Congress has been no help. Without the help of Congress, Obama would be powerless.
        This is what your children and grandchildren are inheriting, Dee, thanks to the “accomplishments” of Obama:
        http://usdebtclock.org/

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        If you would have taken the time to read my post, I didnt point the finger at one person as you accuse. I pointed it at the whole democratic party, and that is, as you know, more than one person. It is a congregation of liberals who seek to take from my middle class hard earned paycheck, and give to to these guys sitting on a porch everyday drinking 40′s and smoking cigarettes, instead of looking for a job. Yes, Im not pointing the finger at one man, Obama whom you think I am. No, its not just him. Lest you forget Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Feinstein, Daschle, Dodd, Dean, Rangle and more. The whole lot of them like to give to those who wont work, you know, with their big social programs, so that these so called down and outs, can remain down and out, and dependant on the government, so that the left can continue to get their votes. All these people who claim to be held down and have nothing, continue to live there year after year after year, and never advance, yet they keep voting for the democrats who give them these little handouts that keep them down in their place, dependant on the government. Unreal. But no, read my post. I never pointed at one guy. Its the whole democratic party to blame.

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      Chip – Was Communism even around before 1776?
      It’s easy for us to label any activity as we choose, however may we maybe label it as it truly was? Together we can, meaning for the survival of all, each must do their part.
      Could that not be a healthy aspect for us now?
      Take two mules behind the plow pulling in opposite directions – very little plowing can be accomplished.
      In Washington, today we have so many different directions our so called eloquent, all inspiring, intelligent representatives have been leading us and we are so eager to do their bidding – we are accomplishing nothing for anyone the world over.

      • Jana

        Dee D, did you bother to read the article? They tried it, and it did not work. Plain and simple. When you take someone’s personal responsibility away from them and they lean on the other person doing all of the work we get Russia. We get Welfare. We get lazy.

        Ok, Dee D. I don’t want to work any more. I want you to go out and work and give me half of what you make. I might just complain if you don’t work hard enough and give me more money, but that will be your problem.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Yes Jana, I read the article and even tho one chooses to label it Communism, so be it. But on the other hand would it benefit everyone if they choose to work together and help each other all the time?
        Communism in it’s true form is a better form of Democracy for all. It’s only polluted and made crooked by the men who want it all at everybody else blood and sweat except their own.
        Is it any different now than it was a few decades ago? Has it improved any or is it getting worse as time marches on?
        Mankind is the spoiler of everything. The uninformed and the do nothings but crtich about it are the enablers.
        Can we ever learn from past mistakes?

      • Jana

        DeeD, Exactly.
        Mankind is the spoiler of everything. There are too many gimmees out there for communism to work. Too many lazy people. So, you answered your own question.
        If you like Communism so much go and live in a Communist Country for 2 years. See how much you like it then.
        Just like Liberalism was really good, until it got perverted, just like Communism has.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Thank you for your input Jana.
        But I am an American born immigrant and I think I will stay here if you don’t mind.
        You prove a point I try to make. Nobody’s opinion matters but the posters. You say if I like Communism I should leave America and go to a Communist block country.
        I would like any form of Government that would better the lot of every citizens life. As for saying I like Communism – I don’t think I said that. It was your interpretation of my post, which proves another point.
        I also have been guilty of misinterpreting comment made by other people and there we have the origination of screwed up dialog,
        ideas and in many cases out and out lies.
        It would be a utopia if all of us were perfect, alas none are, and yes a greedy person can take any issue and spoil the whole concept.

      • Jana

        Dee D,
        I did not say leave America, I said “If you like Communism so much go and live in a Communist Country for 2 years. See how much you like it then.
        That is not inviting you to leave! It’s inviting you to try before you buy. Another point, if you didn’t say you liked Communism you sure implied it. You bet I interpreted it that way, maybe you were trying to be deceitful is that it? You were sure doing a lot of bragging about something that you seemed awfully proud of.
        Capitalism has always made us a great Country. When bailouts of all of these corporations started, then Capitalism started going under.
        We would be starting to come out of the recession instead of still being smack dab in the middle of it. The government should not own or run any business.

      • Cribster

        Dee D says:
        November 22, 2009 at 3:35 pm
        “Thank you for your input Jana.
        But I am an American born immigrant”………..

        What the heck is an American born immigrant?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Understand this Dee. It is not the job or the position of the government to take care of the so called poor and needy. This is the job of the church. It is not the job of the government. It is the governments job to run the military, the police force and fire departments, the city halls and such to keep things in order. It is not their job to take my money, and give it to whom they deem worthy. The more they get involved in it, the worse it gets.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Cribster – An American born immigrant is a baby born here in America to other American born immigrants.
        The only way any American citizen can be a full blooded American is if they belong to an Indian tribe, since the Indians were here before the white man came and done their dasterdly to them.
        If you check and you are not an full blooded Indian, I’ll wager your ancestors were immigrants — thus making you an American born immigrant.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Think Jana- For me to live even one year in a communist country I would have to leave America – wouldn’t I? Or do you know where I may find a communist country here in America?

      • Jana

        DeeD, How long did it take you to figure out that we are NOT a Communist Country?
        You know the more you talk, the more weird you sound. You are one mixed up lady.
        Where ever did you get the idea that you were an immigrant. You have to be joking right? You do speak English and comprehend English don’t you? Something must happen somewhere between your brain and your fingertips.
        The definition of immigrant is as follows, although I realize you have made up your own definition LOL AY:

        Main Entry: im·mi·grant
        Pronunciation: \ˈi-mə-grənt\
        Function: noun
        Date: 1789
        one that immigrates: as a : a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence b : a plant or animal that becomes established in an area where it was previously unknown
        — immigrant adjective

        You know the more you write the more you show that you are a Socialist. A true blue Socialist.

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        Jana – I still love you like a sister. Have a very happy Thanksgiving.

    • denniso

      The Pilgrims didn’t come here to have religious freedom. They came here to exercise their religion and quickly suppressed others…sure, religious freedom for them, but not for anyone who didn’t agree w/ them. Not exactly my idea of ‘religious freedom’.

      • ’53 Korean Vet

        dennniso– In your post–where you said “the Pilgrims did not come to have religious Freedom-! You’re confused by the “Puritans” who 1st arrived in 1630 with Winthrop to north MA–they were members of King Henry’s Church–the Anglican Church, with rules written by said King, actually an atheist, not a “man of God”! These people dis-embarked from England–not from Holland! They had the ‘Salem Witch Trials’ & burned their victims at the Stake! The Families called the ‘Pilgrims’ did indeed move their families to Holland–away from England, because they disagreed in King Henry’s order, “that all other Relgions were outlawed in England, especially the Catholic, for the Pope threatened King Henry if he Divorced his Wife, Katherine–with excommunication!! The Pilgrims belief that the Bible was God’s Word, & King Henry said different–so they exiled themselves to Holland & finally decided to migrate to America–where they’d be free to worship as their belief! Now,you know the Truth, it’s a big difference in Pilgrims & Puritans!

blog comments powered by Disqus
Bottom