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Clean Energy is Pure Fantasy

November 18, 2009 by  

Clean Energy is Pure Fantasy

(Part one of a three-part series on energy)

Barack Obama must be thrilled with fellow Nobel Prize winner and former Vice President Al Gore and his just-published book, Our Choice, A Plan to Solve the Climate Crisis. In it, Gore sings the liberal refrain that big government can save the world.

Gore, who is making the rounds touting his book this month, argues there are economic as well as political reasons to be green.

"There is a common thread running through the discussion of climate, (national) security, and the economic crisis, and that is our ridiculous dependence on foreign oil and coal," Gore said.

In other words, clean energy will bring us peace, prosperity and respite from that “End of Days” scenario known as global warming.

Gore thinks we can have peace because America will no longer be dependent on Middle East oil. As a result we can pull out of the region lock, stock and no barrel.

That will save hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on Arab oil. Best yet, that money can be invested into clean technologies—a super-grid to capture and transport wind and solar power.

Gore’s vision is for America to become a world leader in clean technology and export it around the world, correcting one last annoyance—our staggering trade deficit.

Gore’s utopia is green. Soon we can sleep easy in our lavish solar homes with our electric cars plugged in.

If it sounds too good to be true there is a reason for that—it is.

Jousting at Windmills
If you have ever been to Palm Springs, Calif., and driven west you can’t help but notice the forest of wind turbines that pockmark the desert landscape.

As we drove along Interstate-10 years ago my wife Angela said, “How come the windmills aren’t turning?”

“No wind,” I said.                       

That sums up the problem with wind power, a system that currently produces about 1 percent of America’s energy needs.

When the wind blows you get electricity but when it doesn’t blow you get nothing. That is because it is impossible with current technology to store alternating current. Direct current wind power can’t be stored in batteries. As a result consumers need redundant power plants.

Then there is a question of cost and space.

Last year in England, former Industry Secretary and current Labour MP John Hutton announced the British government should build a huge array of giant windmills to meet the country’s future energy needs.

The Energy Tribune said Hutton’s plan would literally change the face of Britain. That’s because Hutton wants the government to build 7,000 turbines—or one every half-mile around the entire coast of Britain.

It’s interesting that as much as the greens hate to spoil the environment they embrace wind power. Turbines not only kill tens of thousands of birds but also use up more space per unit of capacity than any other power source. According to the U.S. Department of Energy each wind turbine requires 40 acres.

Physicist Howard Hayden at the University of Connecticut sums up the situation: “Imagine a one-mile swath of wind turbines extending from San Francisco to Los Angeles. That land area would be required to produce as much power around the clock as one large coal, natural gas, or nuclear power station that normally occupies about one square kilometer.”

And wind turbines don‘t come cheap. One commercial 2 megawatt turbine costs about $3 million installed.

According to Senator Lamar Alexander (R-TN), “At a time when America needs large amounts of low-cost reliable power, wind produces puny amounts of high-cost unreliable power. We need lower prices; wind power raises prices.”

The Sun of All Things
My experience with solar power dates back to that time we drove past the motionless windmills. It was the early 1980s and we were buying our first house. The 1970s energy crisis was still lingering and since real estate was cheap in Spokane, Wash., we decided to spend some extra money and buy a brand new solar home.

It was a nice enough berm house if you didn’t mind dirt piled up against the sides and the back of it. As for the solar panels, they collected energy to beat the band in the summer, which was too bad since we didn’t have an air conditioner. As for its use in the winter, we were in the rainy Pacific Northwest so our solar panels were practically useless.

Nearly 30 years later solar power meets about 1 percent of America’s electricity needs. And solar is still an incredibly costly proposition. It costs up to $80,000 to put in solar technology that would meet the electrical demands of a modest home.

Green Econometrics did the math. In a 2007 article they calculated that solar energy is 10 to 20 times more expensive than fossil fuels for power generation (see graph below). You can read the story at: http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html.


Beam Me Up Scotty
To better understand how ridiculous the prospect of solar energy is, consider a press release sent out by Pacific Gas & Electric Corporation (PG&E) (NYSE: PCG) this past spring.

PG&E announced that it had requested approval from the California Public Utilities Commission to enter into a power purchase agreement with Solaren Corp. in Southern California.

Under the plan Solaren would deploy a solar array into space—yes space—to beam an average of 850 gigawatt hours (GWh) for the first year of the term, and 1,700 GWh per year over the remaining term to PG&E customers.

According to Solaren it has even had talks with Lockheed-Martin and Boeing to build the solar plant and the rockets needed to send it into orbit.

All of which prompted Energy & Capital to write: “The press has gushed about the ‘next frontier’ of solar power, which would collect power ‘24 hours a day’ from the far brighter solar radiation available above earth’s atmosphere from a low-orbit. The energy would be transmitted to a receiver based in Fresno, Calif.”

Meanwhile, it was revealed that the Pentagon had done its own study on space-based solar power. Their report said that a $10 billion program could create a measly 10-megawatt pilot satellite.
 
The scale of the PG&E project is out of this world. Their satellite would have to be hundreds of times bigger than the International Space Station, which can barely sustain itself with solar energy.

Just one final detail: nobody—not even a Nobel Prize winner—has yet figured out a technology that will actually transfer the sun’s rays.

The fundamental truth is that we will, for decades longer, continue to rely on fossil fuels.

Next week, in Part Two of this three-part series, I will touch on more earthly problems, including America’s all too real oil crisis and one rock solid industry that will help ease America’s energy pains and earn you gusher-type profits.

Yours for real wealth and good health,

John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Mike

    I’ll never understand why the greenies don’t support nuclear power as a CO2 neutral alternative? Have you ever seen the Palo Verde plant outside Phoenix, AZ? It’s the biggest we have in this country, and was built in a desert. The price of its power was dictated by the greenies who control the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. They’ve managed to control the process to the point where no two nuclear plants in this country are the same design…..surrendering the cost savings of scale.

    And, as for the radiation issue, most of the greens don’t realize that they are irradiated from space continually (cosmic rays – day and night)and if they ever go somewhere in a jet airplane they really get irradiated.

    • RC

      Palo Verde is San Onofre’s sister plant.
      San Onofre has 2 units operating, Unit 2 and Unit 3, which are identical.

    • American Citizen

      I’ll bet a lot of them bake in the sun in order to look the same skin color as Obama or close to it.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        And the wimpy ones spray it on.

      • eyeswideopen

        I am putting my comment back in. You have shown your racism and now you need to own it.

      • eyeswideopen

        Surprised that you let your racism show so obviously. Sad, to think that you were a teacher. Is that what you taught your kids?

  • Carol

    I am so sick and tired of listening to all these wealthy people just go back home and shut-up.

    • DaveH

      So you’re tired of Al Gore, the Rockefellers, the Kennedys, Nancy Pelosi, George Soros, and many others?

      • American Citizen

        You said it, in spades.

      • eyeswideopen

        Dick Cheney, Bush I, Sheldon Adelson, Dick Armey, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’reily, Rpuert Murdoch, fit right into your little group.

      • JeffH

        TROLL you forgot Hannity and Beck!

      • eyeswideopen

        Didn’t forget them, they are paupers compared to the rest. (Word removed for offensive content)

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Nope. Eyes, Maryland Mom, Curtis Lowe, Norm, Smilee, denniso, and the rest of this ill fated ilk.

      • eyeswideopen

        Bebe, easier to just say, anybody who doesn’t buy the Republican party line. The repubs have become so much like the Dems, that you can’t even tell them apart anymore. Spending during the last admin, should tell you that there is no longer a line they won’t cross. Generalizing and demonizing about view points that are different, is the beginning of a ideology that will only accept one party, one religion. Sounds like a point in history that was very ugly. Do you recall what happened?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        No, what Im saying is anybody that buys into the democrats line of bull is not very smart or America loving. Just give George Soros your money and have fun.

  • DaveH

    Get a clue Liberals:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckksvu-MOIo

    (part 2, etc. are adjacent to this video)

  • Lester Havens

    First; wind power and solar power are a blight on the land, requiring acres and acres of it. What do the environmentalists say about that? Second; the cheapest way to produce energy and to create jobs is to develop the resources we already have, not try to create new ones. This country doesn’t have to be dependent on foreign oil if the government will allow us to develop our own oil fields. This country has more oil in the ground than almost all the rest of the world combined and it’s on-shore and close to the surface. To get at light, sweet crude, which is what we have, is a very cheap process and along with oil comes the natural gas that we also produce more of than anyone else. I was always of the opinion that this country was using so much foreign oil to help deplete the rest of the worlds oil supplies and we, then, would be the top dog in the industry, selling oil around the world and raking in the dough, making our economy grow by leaps and bounds. However, with the environmentalist’s agenda and the apparent willful destructive attitude of our present government, our economy has gone to pot and jobs are going down the tubes. I say again; the best way to go is to develop what we have and in the meantime try to develop the other sources of energy. We are just destroying our country doing what we are doing.

    • Kay

      Lester is the first person who has talked with any real intelligence on this whole subject. This country could have been self sufficent developing our own “God Given” resources if our so called “representatives” in Washington weren’t there to better their own wealth by listening to lobbyists who line their pockets instead of using common sense to benefit our country. We used to lead the world in development but now our government is trying to turn us into a third world country of which we have never been. It is truly discusting

      • eyeswideopen

        Kay, that is because our government is being run by the big corporations who don’t want competition from the little guys.

    • JeffH

      Well said.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      The economy will rebound in 2012 when we all vote the tax monsters out of office. This is the reason for things being where they are. Business held their cash to pay the new raised taxes, and they know these liberals are rescinding the tax cuts in 2010, as they have allready said so, and that is going to cost business more in tax dollars, butt will also cost many more, in the millions, of jobs lost. But in 2012, whether we elect a republican or an Independant, such as a Libertarian or a Constitutionalist, business will start to build and hire again. But its not going to happen with a left wing liberal Democrat tax machine at the helm.

  • Lena

    Well I guess we are all screwed then! I have heard recently that we were lied to about how much oil there is left in the world, which makes other sources of energy sound a lot more appealling. Problem is, no one is getting started with any of them. The $10 Billion solar energy program sounds ridiculous. Why can’t they just start trying to make solar power cheaper? The reason it is so costly is because they haven’t put enough time into it yet and there is probably only a few big companies running the show and making the prices (like everything else in the country!) I like what Robert had to say about Nuclear power and tidal generators. Why do the environmentallists not want that? Does it destroy oceans or something? I know Nuclear power could be quite risky with making sure there is no exposure to waste and such but I have never even heard about tidal generators. I agree with some too that even if wind and solar cannot do the job on it’s own, if you combine every possible alternate energy, you will have something to work with. But I have a feeling that instead of people trying to set things right before the big struggle for energy it will all come down in the end to who has the money to afford it. That is why people like Al Gore don’t really care. They know that in the end when some people cannot cook their food or light their homes they will be okay, because they have been taking our money and sitting on it so they can see another day. I guess that is just the way of the world. Instead of working together, why don’t we all just fend for ourselves since it’s more convenient that way? Sure it won’t work in the end but that is just a lesson that will have to be learned.

    • Sir Gareth

      90% of all solar panels are manufactued in China where coal fired electricty provides reliable energy for their production plants.

      They sell them to us (on credit) to help us go out of business faster than we can without their help.

    • DaveH

      Lena,
      There is no more efficient system than the free market. When people are investing their own money in an effort they work a lot harder to achieve their goals. The government, which is investing other peoples’ money in its schemes, really doesn’t need to care if they work or not.

      • denniso

        DaveH…the free market didn’t win WW2, didn’t get us to the moon,didn’t launch all the satellites for you gps and phone..it did give us the great depression and this now great recession. Markets also don’t do well w/ healthcare or education. They need cooperation w/ a gov’t large enough to help and support them and to regulate smartly..unlike what Bush did.

      • DaveH

        We won WW2? Sure, many of the victim countries were turned over to Communist suppression at the hands of Russia for nearly 40 years. What did the Government win?

      • DaveH

        You are so full of bull. You speak your opinion as if it was fact. It isn’t. So how do you benefit from the trough? Government employee? Union member? Welfare recipient? Come clean Donkey.
        Anyone who has half-a-brain knows Government fails in almost all endeavors. Of course that means you don’t know.

      • denniso

        You’re only pointless…

      • DaveH

        Both the Depression and the current Bust were caused by government tinkering with the marketplace. In the case of the Depression, there was too much money creation, followed by protectionism. Our current bust was caused by excess money creation and government coercing banks to lend to unqualified home buyers who later defaulted on their loans causing a cascading effect.

      • eyeswideopen

        I guess all the unfunded war effort, unfunded medicare advantage bills, and all the new government regulations that Bush passed, had nothing to do with the deficit and the bust? What until you see how much and how many new regulations that passed, have cost us. Go Bush, Go!!!
        http://reason.com/archives/2008/12/10/bushs-regulatory-kiss-off

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        As I said earlier, about the oil companies. I like to buy gas to make my vehicle move me around, and I like to buy natural gas to heat my house in the cold Indiana winters. If those on the left really think that the “Big Oil” guys are these evil demons they project them to be, then they need to sell off their cars, move to a warm climate, and buy a million acres and put up thousands of these wind turbines to power their house. Good luck affording it, and good luck affording the repairs to them, and good luck getting enough energy out of them. Ill give them that right to pursue this all they want, but they need to give me the right to buy the gas I want. Me, Ill take gas.

      • JeffH

        Beberoni, what happens with the old batteries that will wear out in a few years? Opps! I’ll drive my 15+mpg SUV until it stops, then pop a few grand into it and drive it another 200,000 miles. Have you ever thought about how nice it is to have the choice of spending your money when and where you like. If you want something, but the price is outrageous, you can shop elswhere or just do without until prices drop. Ahhh! Freedom of choice, I sure like it.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Amen brother. How much are they going to charge for the new batteries, and how much to dispose of the old ones, then where are they going to throw them away at, because they will have to throw them away. So how is that good for the environment. They just traded burning it and the waste drifting away in the air, to burying it in the ground, where it will eventually leech out and get into our drinking water. Hmmm. Makes me think about it.

  • Sandy

    I have friends that live at the 3500′ level above Lake Chelan in Washington State. They are totally self-sufficient. They use a combination of batteries, solar and a small wind turbine. The cost for this was less than $30,000. The house is about 2500 SQFT. They have pretty harsh winters – snow most of the time and temps near 0. Summer is cool with crisp nights. So, looking at what my power bill used to be up there (around $300/350 in winter), they would get paid back in 10 years, not counting the mortgage interest deduction they receive off their income taxes or any rises in future power costs which we all know are coming. So, with that said and Cap & Trade on the horizon, I think they have made a pretty smart investment.

    • Cindy

      I envy your friends! I have researched a similar set-up for our home, for a similar price tag, but unfortunately cannot afford the start up at this time.
      This may be a possible solution…? It would probably be less expensive for the government to finance similar set ups for the majority of the homes/buildings in the country than it would for continued grants and subsidies for developing the big picture solutions. The technology already exists for these set-ups, we know they work, it would create jobs, encourage new research, development, competition in the PRIVATE (as opposed to government)sector. Sounds good to me so far…

      • Joel

        Anything the Government “Finances” comes out of the tax payer’s pockets…

      • Sandy

        You forget that big government is in the pockets of business – mostly oil and gas business. They DON’T want us to be self-sufficient.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Those dirty “Big Oil” guys. Darn them. Sell me a gallon of gas for $ 2.43 so that I can drive 30 miles in the comfort of my Honda CRV. Yeah, those guys are terrible. They are ruining this country, why with letting me heat my house in the winter to keep me from freezing to death. Those dirty evil scoundrels. Selling me a product that is cheaper a gallon than milk. You know you pay more for a gallon of perfume, a gallon of ketchup, a gallon of eyedrops, a gallon of soda pop, and everything else. Some of these 10 times as much. Yet people like you demonize the oil companies. It sure is easy these days to go after the successful. If your interested in the truth at all, its like this. They have a product. They have a product I want. They sell this product. I gladly buy this product. They make money. I get the service out of this product that I expect. I go my way. They go their way. If you dont like them, hey, park your car, move to where you dont need heat, and be happy. But leave me and my rights to live as I please, alone. Thank you very much.

      • eyeswideopen

        Bebe, would be glad to leave you alone. Have you forgotten that all American are subsidizing the Oil companies, and we don’t have a choice? You are aware that when your girl Palin, got that extra money for the citizens of Alaska, by charging the Oil companies more, that the deficit came right from the American tax payers? They write if off on their cost of doing business and we make up the difference. It was also our tax dollars that paid to purchase the land from Russia, and the rest of us don’t get any rebates. You need to do a little more research prior to slaming someone who doesn’t want to provide more money to the big corporations. Government is Force, remember?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I still love my oil. Im not buying what your selling.

      • eyeswideopen

        Beber, that’s because you are selfish. Why don’t you just tell your grandkids now that you want to make all the Arab countries richer and don’t give two sh ts about their future. Just be honest and tell them you have no problem with us giving them 700 BILLION dollars a year for the oil. You Conservatives are funny, claim to hate the Muslims yet you against any changes which would stop the flow of money to them. Hyprocrisy at it’s finest!!!

      • JeffH

        I just love it when you liberal hacks attach the “hate” word to anything you don’t agree with. You maggots are the only fools that use “hate” regularly. Shouldn’t let your frustrations of life lead you!

    • Sir Gareth

      We have soem neighbors who put a second mortgage on their house to buy their very own wind turbine to both make their own electricity and to sell all the extra power back to the power company – so very green and so very utopian.

      They invested $75,000 in their scheme but I have to give them credit, they funded their windmill folly uniquely – with their own cash.

      Outcome after two years:

      Electricity produced so far: Not even a millwatt

      Status of wind turbine: after mutliple repairs, still broken.

      Status of company who built it, sold it, and “guaranteed” it: bankrupt!

      Status of these former green utopians. In debt for $75,000 for a really swell antennea mast and much much wiser for their “green” losses.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        They can keep their ugly wind turbine fan farms. If they want it, let them buy it. If I want oil to heat my house and gas to drive my car, let me buy it. No one is forcing us. But they so quickly demonize the “Big Oil” companies, and act like these wind farm things are the next coming of Christ, yet time and time again its shown that the return isnt worth the investment. Of course liberals are for this, as they see it, like everything else in their minds, that its the governments responsibility to take care of everything for them. Not me. Give me my car and gas, and Im good.

    • DaveH

      Sandy,
      Money has time value which needs to be factored into the equation whenever there is a large capital investment. Also future maintenance costs would need to be considered. To really find out if their investment was cost effective would take some considerable calculations.
      That being said, I applaud them for their efforts to be energy self-reliant, and hope it works for them.

    • American Citizen

      Three-hundred fifty million people could not do this. Most don’t have that kind of money to begin with to put in all that “green” energy sources. If the government forces us to go solar, etc., we wold have to sell our home as we don’t have that kind of money either. We get just enough to live on in our retirement plus a little to go out to eat once a week. Our main source of entertainment is visiting our children or they come here to visit.

  • Richard Rainer

    For those of you that believe in wind power you should speak to the companies that are forced by the goverment to buy this energy. The power is produced in such lower frequency that the purchasers loses money pulling the power down the lines before they can transmit it to their customers.
    I have a suggestion for all the tree huggers out there. Form your on country and impose all the goverment you want on yourselves and leave me, and those who don’t believe, alone!
    It has always puzzled me that people that believe in these hair brain ideas do not offer to pay for them out of their on pockets. Why must they insist that everone pay for and change their life stiles. While in most cases they don’t practice what they preach. How many politicians that have bought in to this have sold their gas guzzlers and started walking. How many still fly every where they go.

    • Sandy

      Compare Al Gore’s house to George & Laura Bush’s ranch house. See who is the greater environmentalist. Gore is self-serving and egotistical. He has no solution, he only makes selling nothing.

      • Carol

        All of these people make me so ill I really don’t have the words. For the most part they more money than sense.

    • DaveH

      That’s right Richard. As the saying goes “Money talks and BS walks”.

    • http://aviationelevated.com Daniel Smith

      You are on the right track for discussion now. I have been involved in electrical/electronics most of my life. You may recall that recently T Boone Pickens was advertising for alternative energy using wind power. I’m a little vague on this but, I think after ordering a huge quantity of windmill generators, he ran into trouble with the grid delivery system in Texas.

      If you think about it, what ever you generate at the end of the system can only be used in the local area because all of those sub stations step down the voltage for distribution. There is no means of jacking the voltage up without high wattage loss in the process to get it back in at the grid level of power. It’s like trying to take rainwater off of your land and pump it back up stream to the source for redistribution. You would have to generate 265,000 volts to get it back into the grid plus, lose most of the power on the powerlines to “transport” it to where it is needed. I would suspect this is the kind of problem encountered with the grid in Texas.

  • http://none Ken Sabic

    Al Gore and the rest of the green marxist are not about new clean energy. This is about profit for them and control of the American people and world government. Just as the Health Care Bill is not about healthcare, but control of every facet of your life!

    Ken S.

    • Carol

      You are so right I am tired of all of this all of it is hipe no matter who is saying especially BO he is such a liar he can’t even tell us the truth where he was born and that is bottom line if you lie about that can you imagine what else he is lying about.

  • http://papasi57@yahoo.com si

    anybody ever see the size of al gores home?? it’s like the size of a small school or medium hospital …… and he is going to preach on energy !! what a joke ( sadly not a funny one) !! he and nancy pelosi must be neck and neck in the fight for hypocrite of the century !!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      They are Democrats. What do you expect out of them? This is what todays left is all about, hypocrisy. Do as I say, not as I do. They are todays Pharisee’s.

  • Larry Stanley

    I live in the Palm Springs area where we have those beautiful wind mill farms, there is plenty of sun for solar power which is being developed as this article is being written. The tree huggers are going nuts, the energy prices are skyrocketing and Al Gore is like a dirty diaper!

  • Clyde

    Windmills, solar and bio-fuels are already being financed by the tax payers today.

    There is no way that these will ever become self supporting by themselves.

    Each and every one of them consumes more energy than they produce. That includes the full lifetime of the first two.

    • denniso

      Like oil,coal and nuclear are not subsidized by the gov’t? Do some research.

      • JeffH

        You wouldn’t know what the word “research” means! Go back to your trough, It’s feeding time at the zoo.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        That would be the troll trough.

      • DaveH

        As if the board Harpy does any research. Where does such a Donkey get off being so arrogant?

      • eyeswideopen

        Learned from the best, YOU!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Donkette.

      • Curtis S

        It appears in today’s episode JeffH is sneering but not using his usual swear word, ‘liberal’. Way to change things up Jeffy! As usual a JeffH post isn’t complete unless is joined to a DaveH post. (Must be tough being Siamese twins trying to use the same computer.) Ahh DaveH, the guy who thinks his links to a disgruntled libertarian’s website means he’s got the answer to everything. Nice work boys, you always add so much to the discussion. Intelligent debate requires more than these hackneyed responses to everything posted by your friend Denniso. Trying raising the bar, try leading by example, or at least try something different.

      • JeffH

        A new member of the TROLL brigade has made an appearance. He’s not American but he is definately a liberal hack. Also identified by his man-luv affair with the Obama administration and marxism.

      • denniso

        JeffH can’t handle anyone w/ a different view point.You’re automatically wrong and he’ll not listen,let alone think, and then engage in name calling. How bright is that??

      • JeffH

        Maggot! Now how’s that for name calling, coward!

      • eyeswideopen

        LMAO…

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        So, since you didnt slam me, let me interject. You raise your tirade against DaveH and JeffH, but you say nothing useful yourself, just slam them around a bit. Typical liberal sentiment. Bring something useful to the table Curtis Lowe. Maybe buy 5000 acres and put up a couple thousand wind turbines to power your house. Hope the wind blows the day you need it. Maybe the government will pay for it for you, to go along with your welfare and food stamps. You cannot hide it, you are a hands out guy, waiting for the government to take care of you. It shows.

  • Wanda

    I wouldn’t beleive a word that comes out of Al Gores mouth. This is all about him making more and more money. Evidently needs to have lots of attention and this is the only way he has of getting it.

  • Johnnyrite

    One again Myers’ says the only solutions are resources — the very stuff he is selling. Someone needs to tell him it is time to get away from resources. What made America rich was new technologies and money.

    • DaveH

      What made the United States rich was Freedom, which we no longer have.
      How many Liberals, do you think, live their lives the way their neighbor thinks they should? Probably not many. Yet, we send our neighbors to DC and think that they suddenly have become enlightened. They haven’t. They are partying hearty on our tax dollars.

      • eyeswideopen

        How many Republicans live their lives the way they should? I live in a Republican neighborhood, and no one was obeying the watering restrictions, so the water police had to come and force the entire group to obey, by fining them 250.00 a pop. That did get their attention. Very few recycle, can’t be bothered, too much work, and they fertilize their backyards even though we live on a lake. You want to blame only the Liberals for everything, you just don’t make any sense. Everybody is guility, from both parties. You are so biased against one party it is actually funny, since it was brought on due to a personal decision to marry a democrat.

      • JeffH

        Polly want a cracker?

      • eyeswideopen

        (Comment removed for offensive content)

      • coal miner

        Jeffh,

        You can have a cracker.

      • JeffH

        I have crackers for all three of the Parrots. C’mon, Polly want a cracker?

      • eyeswideopen

        ditto.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        They are living well off of our backs arent they? Pretty nice pension plan theyve set up for themselves there also, that we have to pay for them the rest of their stinking lifes. What a bunch of baloney. I have to say baloney because C–P gets removed because its offensive.

  • TeresaE

    How anyone in this country, while seeing factories darken and small business be intentionally wiped out, can believe “green” will save us is beyond me.

    We will spend our tax money (ok, borrowed funds)to help develop technology which will then be sent to Asia to be manufactured.

    We have off shored so many industries already, does ANYONE in this country look at tags on their products anymore?

    The one thing I do know will happen is that the current administration is going to drive the prices of fossil fuel energy up so high with taxes and regulations, that alternatives will begin to look cheap in comparison.

    Between forced insurance, more pharm pills, Cap ‘n Tax and forced unionism the average American isn’t going to have any money left to spend on anything else. I am beginning to see Clinton, Gore and Obama’s plans succeed. They are eliminating our middle class to plunge us all into third world poverty.

    • Gale Yates

      The present administration + Gore’s B.S. and Hot air
      may be the cause of global warming. {If it was factual ?? NOT !.}

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Clintons, Gore’s and Obama’s political correctness liberalism baloney if over half the reason we struggle today. Weve got the oil resources here, but they dont want to use them, because we might kill a wooly worm that is buried 6′ down. These guys are bad for America.

  • http://BobLivingstone Retired SF

    It amazes me that the global alarmest are the ones on the taxpayer payroll and the one that say it is garbage are not. I guess if the feds were to give you millions for the “right” answer many of us would change our point of view. Ask Algore how much me makes a year off selling carbon credits to morons.

  • http://N/A Dr. Wizard

    The article is incorrect on several points. Namely:

    1)Alternating current can be stored for future use;
    2)Direct current can be stored for future use;
    3)The cost of solar arrays has dropped to 10% of what it was at the date of reference stated in the article
    4)Geothermal energy extraction was not even touched upon. Very accessible, viable and relatively cheap in several areas of the U.S.

    • Sir Gareth

      There is no economically viable way of storing the gigawatts of energy that industrialized societies need. No, lithium ion batteries will not suffice. Besides they are pu together with made with man made “chemicals” which are “unnatural” and therefore icky

    • Sir Gareth

      Acording to Dr Gore you just dig down a little bit and its millions of degrees down there. Why havent you gotten your shovel out and solved the problem. No “big energy” required for that – just put your abck into it.

      As for fossil fuel driven jet travel for all these globe trotting bureaucrats to attend their gals global warming conventions at world class resorts spas, I have a suggestion: man powered aircraft. Everyone bureaucrat simply peddles hislef accross the pacific in “green aircraft”. After all the concept has already been “proven” with with the appropriately named Gossamer Albatross. We just need to send all of our global warming bureaucrats overseas in them – either singly or in aircraft with 400 sets of peddals. All led by Dr Gore; Id love to see his fat ass do some real work of a change.

      • Cindy

        Just curious (and off topic) but were you in Mojave while Paul McCready was developing his Gossamer series for man powered flight? Exciting days…

    • DaveH

      Mr. Wizard, If it could be done economically the government wouldn’t need to be involved.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        If it could be done economically, the government wouldnt be involved.

    • coal miner

      Dr,wizard,

      What about geothermal energy extraction? I am curious.

  • paulc

    John Myers presents facts. The “green” dreamers respond with their usual pie in the sky dreams. “Cost of solar will be competitive”—no date. “Wind will always blow”—yes, but not necessarily where the turbines are—do we need mobile turbines?

    • Robert

      Put the wind tubines right in front of the White House and the Capital Building. It’s scientifically proven the wind is always blowing in those two places.

      • DaveH

        Good one Robert.

      • American Citizen

        Too bad they can’t harness all the hot air that comes out of that place.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Anymore, our government is like a fan. You stand it front of it and it blows. You stand behind it and it sucks. And when you stand beside it, it doesnt do a darn thing for you.

  • Are you for real?

    John,

    You are speaking the propaganda of Big Energy. In an additive sense Wind + Hydro + Tidal + Solar can more than meet our energy needs. For example: even at $3M installed cost a 3MW turbine will produce energy at 1/2 of today retail electric rates over a 12 year life. This includes service and maintenance AND the projected life of one of these machines is 25 years! So you get 12 years of free energy so to speak. In addition the Army Corp of Engineers together with GE published a report that outlined how America could easily capture more than enough electricity just by utilizing deep-water wind energy in the Atlantic ocean. Not to mention that for every 10 turbines put in place you create 1 full time service job. And oh, more birds are killed annually via commercial air flight than would ever be hurt by us erecting a sea boarding wind farm. (But I guess in your opinion the damage done to our air and water from our abuse of oil & coal, responsible for our nation’s dramatic increase in respiratory illness is ok?)

    Truthfully John, you are so wrong here (especially considering the personal liberty angle) I’m wondering who is behind your site.

    • Sir Gareth

      Why are wind turbines considered “green” They kill millions of insect controlling birds and bats annually.

      GE, which was hated by you Marxists when it operated profitably, but now while its a big loser is the largest manufacturer of these montrosities – is GE “big” or is it like a mom and pop business?

      If people actually wanted these things there would be no mandates from government idiots who dont know a damn thing about profit and loss. Its the same reason all of our jobs are going overseas – the Chinese are not this stupid.

      Despite your stupid clean air rant, its only cheap energy that has made the longevity and the standard of living of Americans the envy of the world. One hundred years ago people heated their homes with coal. My father thought snow was supposed to be grey util he moved to the country. We will be returning to open hearth burning of coal as our primary source of energy, simply because no one will be able to afford your stupid “green energy” Its already happening here. How many carbon credits will you need to burn logs to heat your house?

      • Robert

        You can figure the goverment will make you buy at least 3 million carbon credits at one cent a credit. Al Gore will be more than willing to sell you some of his credits (just a little perk he gets for being a former Vice-President). This way, he’ll be able to take his jets anywhere in the world and pay for it and Tipper can still do her shopping at Saks or Bergdoff.

      • American Citizen

        People around here, (we live in a small town) already use fireplaces and woodburning stoves to heat their homes in the winter. Sometimes you can hardly breathe outdoors for the smoke-filled air. We here are total electric. I dread to think what our bill would be if some of this so-called green energy is put into place. There is not enough wind here for a wind farm, we have a lot of gray days in the winter for solar, so what do we do? I guess we’ll have to start using our fireplace, but I don’t want to unless it’s necessary.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I myself love the smell of wood burning. Reminds me of camping.

    • DaveH

      Let’s see, I could believe Real or I could believe Cato. Tough decision.
      http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-280.html

      • Curtis S

        Thanks for the link to a steaming pile of bias. An oil and gas guy from Texas doesn’t like wind power. Now that was unexpected. Did you notice that all of the statistics that “JR Ewing” was using were all from the early to mid 90s? You post this link like it’s relevant to anything in the 21st century? Couldn’t you google something from Fox News that at least quoted data from after 1995? Did you actually even read it? C’mon Dave, you need to put in a little more effort.
        Here’s some points to ponder… Wind power is not noisy. The second and third generation turbines are more efficient and less deadly to birds. Wind turbines are no uglier and use about as much materials as your average oil rig. Wind turbines were never meant to replace other sources of electricity, it’s meant to take some stress off the overall grid. One last thing, you Americans need to know about wind power, you need to build these turbines in places where the wind actually blows (that’s what makes them work).

      • eyeswideopen

        Curtis, Dave, only recommends web sites that are Libertarian. He will tell you to read, Thomas Sowell, Ayn Rand, Cato Institute, he is just a Libertarian party pusher, looking for new members. As an elitist, he only has one agenda, to make his party look appealing and to incite the opposing parties, by offering the statement government is force to most situations.

      • Curtis S

        I disagree. I don’t think he’s an elitist, more like an isolationist or an anarchist. He just wants to be able to do whatever he wants to do with little or no regard for anyone else while he’s doing it. And while he’s doing whatever he wants, he doesn’t want to pay taxes. Honestly, what’s wrong with that? I like the concept, but when you live in a large city or on a planet with six billion people, isolationism and anarchy just aren’t viable options. I like the way DaveH has a passion for his beliefs, (words removed for offensive content)
        (By the way, didn’t everyone read Ayn Rand in highschool or college? I enjoyed Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.)

      • eyeswideopen

        Curtis, required reading for us and I was in Texas. When you have been here a little longer you will see that he really is practicing ethical egoism, and is totally pro corporations with no regulations. He really meets the criterion of elitist. He is also very angry as he was once married to a Dem, who stole his money. So, if you are a Liberal, run for your life. I don’t sit around saying, oh, I really want to pay taxes. Instead, I sit around and ask why we have those who can avoid taxes using off shore accounts. Why can’t everyone just contribute to our infrastructure and accept that taxes are the reason we are civilized?

      • JeffH

        The un-American is hooked to the TROLL brigade now. What hole did you crawl out of to scurrey up a rope and get on the boat to this dreadful America?

      • Curtis S

        When you see www on your computer is means World Wide Web. I’ll type this slowly so you can understand – it means anyone, anywhere in the world can play. I don’t have to be in America to post on this site. Pretty neat concept, eh? You refer to me as “the un-American” like it’s supposed to be an insult. I can’t be an American because I wasn’t born in America and I don’t live in America. I came to this site looking for intelligent debate and discussion and sometimes I have found it. But you(WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) You add nothing. I can’t remember reading anything that you’ve posted that wasn’t derogatory. You are NOT the reason your country’s founding fathers wrote the first amendment. I await your brilliant response.

      • JeffH

        …the thinking of people like you and your ilk is what our forefathers fought to protect this country and it’s future from. You said you wanted a healthy debate when you came to this site, but you have done very little of that. You chose to verbally attack Americans with your socialistic mentality. Your agitation, ridicule, and “I’m smarter than thou” attitude falls right in line with the “liberal extremists” TROLLs you have so graciuosly embraced. You fit right in with them! You might have had no other choice but to accept the cards you have been dealt in life, where I come from, I still have a choice.

      • denniso

        Curtis…Anyone JeffH disagrees w/ is ‘unamerican’, whether one lives here or not. In his mind, nonamericans are as evil as unamericans, because we americans are ‘the best’.
        Welcome to the site Curtis,american or not. As you’ve noticed, there are many blowhards here who spew hate and lies..some of us try to set them straight.

      • JeffH

        …and some like duh!nniso just spew to spew. How ya doin Gabriela? I see you snuck back to the ‘puter.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        If you can afford them, and have enough land to put up enough of them to power your needs. Of course, being a liberal, you think that the government should take care of all that for you. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they dont work efficiently enough. And they cost too much, and they wear out and require very expensive maintenance. Give me a barrel of oil anyday.

      • eyeswideopen

        Will you still be saying that when gas costs $12.00 a gallon like in Europe? No, you will be screaming with the rest of the crowd. We were supposed to have started reducing our oil consumption back in the 70′s but the Oil companies won out and here we are today. Dependent on the Muslim countries you all hate so much, making them richer and richer.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The only way that is going to happen is if the democrats stay in power, and do the continual raise the tax thing like they love to do. Other than that, its not going to happen, so quit being paranoid.

      • eyeswideopen

        Beberoni, where were you last year at this time when gas was $5.00? Sleeping?

  • Billy

    Just like Al Gore and the other politicians, your “facts” are badly distorted. Truth is, the cost of wind power is today competitive with electrical power from coal and oil. Gas and hydro are less costly if you don’t consider the cost of the dams, loss of forests, loss of fisheries, etc. Solar power today is more costly, but that will come down as we discover better ways to harvest it. It is already competitive with coal and oil for heating water and drying clothes in many parts of the world.

    As for your claims about useless power from intermittent sources, you need to consider the entire system of coal, gas, oil, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar, and other sources. None of these can stand alone for the next century, but together, they will provide electrical power needs for a growing world economy.

    • http://none Jim Lowe

      Our energy systems Multiply coal, natural gas etc. and do NOT require nuclear energy although our current systems Multiply power at the receiving source and can use nuclear energy systems power as they exist today. Please be open minded to get the best for You and everyone else.

    • Cindy

      “(Solar power)..is already competitive with coal and oil for heating water and drying clothes in many parts of the world.”
      Are you serious? Did you look the study, or how they arrived at that statistic?
      Of course it is competitive when you heat water in Black containers or bags and dry your clothes on a line in the sun! We can do that here too, but much of the world has no other choice. It does produce good numbers for cheap solar power though.
      I agree with you – solar technology will get cheaper, and we will find new energy sources, techniques, etc. Unfortunately, Algore and this administration would prefer to eliminate the current, reliable sources we have and prematurely push for a total switch to “green” power that we just don’t have – yet. They don’t WANT to use coal and nuclear power to solve the problem of intermittent power from wind and solar, they just want them gone ASAP! Damn the price tag, damn the loss of freedom from suffocating new regulations.
      I sincerely hope someday we can produce mostly “green” energy, but the government’s involvement and control is not the way it will be done fairly or efficiently.

      • BOE

        yeah but Gore and Obama sure will fire up the private jet and air force 1 any time they want!!

    • Sir Gareth

      The problems with wind.

      1) It is terribly destructive of wildlife and the environment – its is very “un-green” chewing up millions of birds and bats annually.

      2) It generates very little energy and then only intermittantly and must therefor be backed up with traditional coal and gas fired turbines.

      3) Wind is not free. My power company owns a huge wind turbine cited at the HQ of its bureaucracy. We paid for it thought our rates. It has been broken for more than 60 days with its blades dismounted and sitting in the parking lot. However they did promise more jobs per killowatt than with any other kind of electricity. Thats like advertising Maytag washers because with Maytag you get more repair jobs per washload so at least they were not lying.

      4) If wind is so cost effective why does congress have to force us to buy it? My rates have gone up to pay for this nonsense. More importantly our remaing manufacturing jobs will be forced to relocate to China where the electricity runs even when the wind does not blow.

      • denniso

        Sir..Ever seen a large oil tanker spill and what it does to wildlife as well as tourism and fishing and jobs?? The area around the huge spill by the Exxon Valdez in Alaska is still not totally recovered after 15 or 20 yrs. Every energy source’s problems have to be looked at in context.

      • Joel

        Really!!!???
        Ever see miles and miles of ugly windmills trespassing over ranges of what were beautiful mountains and fields… Ever see the devistation this causes to wildlife in those areas… Ever wonder if we are actually contributing to species extensions ???

      • JeffH

        duh!nniso is out to save the world, peace love and a sharp knife in your back. Don’t even waste your time argueing with this liberal hack. Watch “it’s” future comments. As has been stated on several other posts, “she is a 9 year old named Gabriela” whose has love for her “world savior Obama” and blind hatred for Bush/Cheney and a short 8 year memory.

      • JeffH

        I live in California and have seen all the windmills on the Altamont Pass shut down. Ugly, expensive and ineffective waste of resources. The same people that pushed for windpower have turned against them and demanded their removal.

      • American Citizen

        People who live close to those wind farms are beginning to have health problems due to the vibrations they send out. Our politicians have never heard of the old saw, “If it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it.” We can be self-sufficient by using our own oil, but no, the pols say. Dumbbutts.

        Private industry is so much better at finding solutions than the government is. Politicians are politicians and that’s all they’re good at doing. They are not business people and don’t have a clue what it takes to become successful in those fields. All they can do is pass taxes to destroy them or force them to leave this country for a better business climate. We need a complete turnover with some business people running for office.

      • Luke

        Even if there were enough oil in the U.S. for us to be “self-sufficient”, we would still have to pass laws banning Americans from buying oil from overseas in order for this to occur. This would be a form of (gasp!) regulation. Furthermore, the law of supply dictates that restricting the world’s oil supplies from reaching our markets would necessarily result in higher prices. I do not think you can drill enough to make up for all the oil coming in from Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.

        So if by “self-sufficient” you mean we don’t have to import oil, you are indeed correct. If, however, you mean that we can not import oil and also maintain the same standard of living as we have now, then you are not correct. This would only be possible in a world in which there were no trade-offs.

        However, since economics is not value-free and not just about money, you might argue that becoming independent of foreign oil is worthwhile regardless of the cost in order to achieve some higher economic, political, or social goal. Just remember that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

    • bbstacker

      the cost of wind power is today competitive with electrical power from coal and oil…

      Cost effective when the wind is blowing, but a total loss of revenue when there is no breeze to offset the cost of hardware, infrastructure, maintenance and liabilities. If those blades aren’t turning, it’s just huge technological artwork.

    • Kurier Radek

      Billy,

      Are you in the wind power industry..are you an expert? I don’t think so. Wind power costs competitive…NO! HUGE government subsidies and political maneuvering in Europe has FAILED miserably in bringing costs in line. In fact..they’ve been doing this for years and are know preparing for regular “brown outs” due to the lack of power available fot its citizens. Withing 8 years consumption will outpace production. Guess what they are contemplating now? Yep…a rapid build up of nuclear power stations. So..who are you to believe?

      • Sandy

        I live in Texas. We have a choice as to our power provider. You can go to a website called Power to Choose and actually see the electricity rates per kilowat. The power companies list percentages of wind, solar, nuclear and gas. Two years ago wind and solar were quite a lot more, now they are coming down. Still not as cheap as natural gas, but coming down. I wonder why we don’t convert more things to natural gas – we have a hugh supply and our transportation system should be able to convert semi-trucks to natural gas.

      • eyeswideopen

        Sandy, you are lucky. We only have monopolies controling the electric here in Florida. You are stuck with a provider, much like healthcare insurance, same deal here on that also.

    • DaveH

      Billy,
      If what you say is true (it isn’t) then government wouldn’t need to be involved. Those ideas would sell to the public on the free market. These alternative energy schemes need the force and monetary backing (taxpayer money) of the Government to exist. This might not always be the case. I think some economically viable technologies will someday be designed. We need to wait until that is true. If we pursue the current Liberal course, we will be too impoverished to create those technologies when they are needed in the future.

    • eyeswideopen

      Billy, come on, don’t you want to just rely on the oil of our ancestors? How do you think Bush and Cheneys fortune will stay intact without the gazillions they make on the oil deals they cut? It is nice to see that some have the ablility to look into the future and embrace the change to stop us from making all the middle eastern countries filthy rich from our gluteous comsumption of oil.

      • JeffH

        The PARROT returns with Bush/Cheney Bush/Cheney Bush/Cheney
        Polly want a cracker?

      • eyeswideopen

        Hey (words removed for offensive content) how are you??? Been sticking close to DaveH?? How are the gun issues going? Any bills I need to know about that aren’t moving or has that issue been beat to death? I see you both are into the name calling again. Can’t just use your intelligence to win a point? Too bad. Hope everything is going well for you.

      • JeffH

        Hi, didn’t miss you at all. Thanks for the vacation. Saw your name and I immediatley thought of sewage and waste. Sorry I can’t join you in you underground lair. Hope you understand, I can’t handle the stench. My guns are locked and loaded waiting for hunting season to open. Not sure what gun legislation you’re talking about? I’ve always been up to date on that stuff, you know, with my membership in the NRA and Gun Owners of America. They keep us informed of the truth and facts, unlike your sources.

      • JeffH

        What is a ditto head? Doesn’t ring a bell with me.

      • coal miner

        Jeffh,

      • coal miner

        JeffH,

        You just stuck your foot in your mouth again.Nancy Polosi is a descendant of jews.How could she be a Nazi?I am running out of crackers,please gon easy onn them.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Well I will say this, that this wind power is very effective, if you have like 5 million acres of land to place one of these every 10 feet apart. Other than that, your not going to get squat from them. Ive seen the studies, and they cost more than they create.

      • JeffH

        …not to mention the cost of tearing them down when the enviros decide they do more harm to the poor little birdies.

  • http://none Jim Lowe

    ps to my previous comment. We do NOT want to reach in the pockets of American taxpayers taxes to do it either.

    • DaveH

      Good for you Jim.

  • Scarlet4America

    Gore is making millions touting global warming and he is far from an expert. He could care less about protecting the environment, nor does Obama. It is all about control, manipulation, power and greed. If we would just develop our energy sources in this country we would not have to rely on other nations like we do now. People need to be asking our congressional leaders why they are not pursuing this more urgently instead of continuing to sell America downstream. They don’t care about the deficits. Obamacare will further devastate America’s job base and make more people reliant on government without taking any personal responsibility. What a better way for Obama and crew to create their loyal followers…make them so dependent on government that they can only say yes, sire! Whatever you say! Cap and Trade will further break all American’s and business. Can’t you see the writing on the wall? Doesn’t this resemble a communistic environment they are attempting to create? People need to wake up or it will be too late.

    • George S. Saliga

      Right on great comment! I would love to know who is really behind Obama so people could see the truth!

      • Old Salt 1965

        Who’s behind Obama, et al? My studied guess would be George Soros via ACORN. I would like to see an organization like WND do a close investigation into how many federal workers have gotten into the federal government through the help of Soros/ACORN. My bet is that there are many in the top levels of all branches that were recruited and employed that can be linked back to these sources. Soros has been at work for a very, very long time to infiltrate our federal, state, and local governments and educational systems with people who are loyal to his global vision.

      • JeffH

        Without question, George Soros, an avowed Anti-American.
        Soros and Obama: http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/soros-and-obama/

      • JeffH

        This article link has a lot of information;
        http://www.examiner.com/x-16146-Wilmington-Religion–Politics-Examiner~y2009m11d10-Barack-Obamas-friend-George-Soros?cid=exrss-Wilmington-Religion–Politics-Examiner

        Consider Obama friend and confidant George Soros; far left radical, admitted Nazi collaborator, and billionaire investor who recently bought an $811 million chunk of “Petroleo Brasileiro,” making the Brazilian state-controlled oil company his investment fund’s largest holding.
        The fact that the Obama Administration has pledged to bankroll oil drilling on behalf of Brazil seems to have gone unnoticed and/or under reported by the toadying media. Yet the U.S. is lending billions of dollars to Brazil’s state-controlled oil company, “Petrobras,” short for “Petroleo Brasileiro,” to explore and extract a huge offshore discovery in Brazil’s Tupi oil field located in the Santos Basin near Brazil’s largest tourist magnet Rio de Janeiro.

      • JeffH

        Try to understand how the American people might raise a collective eyebrow since Obama’s friend Soros has been to the White House 4 times in the first nine months of your presidency and just happens to have a huge stake in the Brazilian interest”?

      • denniso

        George…’who’s behind Obama’? Let’s see…millions of Dems,independents,liberals,even a few repubs!!

      • eyeswideopen

        denniso, Jeff, has a conspiracy phobia about Soros. He thinks if Soros would die, everything would be fine… but then he would have to find another conspirator to blame. Every time he says Soros, just say, Sheldon Adelson. He is the Republican counterpart to Soros. Obsession is a habitual addiction.

      • denniso

        EWO…good to ‘see’ you again. You’re right about JeffH, but you know most of these people are as bad in their scapegoating of others who are actually trying like hell to fix things. They think it’s a handful of evil doer leaders and they don’t seem to understand that there are millions of smart,committed people working their butts off looking for solutions to huge problems that have been building for decades. I guess things are too complex for most of these people so they overly simplify the issues and lower themselves to name calling and silly talk of impeachment and threats.

      • JeffH

        A reunion of the TROLLS. I keep posting proof about Soros, and your attempts to counter with Adleson don’t refute my “conspiracy theories” in any way because my facts are just that, facts. Like duh!nniso likes to toss out, “do the research”. DO THE RESEARCH!

      • eyeswideopen

        Yes, Jeffie, we can see that four visits in 10 months means that Soros input is really needed, and Obama just can’t live without him. Did it ever occur to you that he is visiting someone else? Don’t make me ask the Bush Admin for the records on Sheldon Adelson’s visits, they probably tried to burn the records anyway. Here’s a clue, most business can been done on the secret, phone, without anyone knowing. lol

      • JeffH

        As much as you would like to, you can’t escape the Soros link, it is everywhere you look on the internet. Of course, if you don’t “fact check”, you wouldn’t find them. Sheldon who?

      • eyeswideopen

        Sheldon Adelson….the Republican George Soros.

      • JeffH

        Sheldon who?

      • Thurman Marcum

        Eyes,

        Jeffh.and Beb shouldn’t be too hard on George Soros,they said he betrayed his fellow Jewish neighbors,he did it in order to save his family from the nazis.A lot of Jews did the same thing.Would they do the same,if they were in that situation? You better believe they would.

      • JeffH

        Well ole Thurm buddy I don’t think so! Have you ever checked out Soros credentials? I didn’t think so! Stick to what you do best, critiquing Palin’s moose knickle and watching Prajean videos. By the way, I would have died to save my compadres. Your explanation says a lot about your character!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        George Soros bought and paid for the Democratic Party a long time ago. They are in debt to him big time, and are willing to to damning things to this country to pay him back, as he hates America. Tells you something about this party, that they would willingly and knowingly get into bed with this anti American guy.

      • JeffH

        Beberoni, be careful of the facts on Soros. These two liberal hacks have jumped into the same sack of denial.

      • JeffH

        Beberoni, thought you might like to read this article.
        George Soros
        If It Quacks, It Must Be A Marxist
        http://www.thenextright.com/category/blog-tags/george-soros

        Today, an American – a white knight – has charged forth to expose the brutish attempts to wreck our country. He is working hard to help with the recovery of conservatism and lead the counterattack to save the former “United” States of America. That knight is Glenn Beck.
        Beck has repeatedly pointed out that Obama’s message has been unambiguous with respect to his revolutionary intentions. Beck’s exhortations were not innuendo or speculation but direct, factual quotes and video footage of then candidate Obama which would hold up in any court of law. But Americans, largely shielded by the utopian fantasies of the leftist media, did not, or wished not, to hear or see the truth.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Dont mention Glen Beck to the liberals. They are scared to death of him because he exposed the truth about them, you know, the kind you cant get on the national news channels.

      • Curtis S

        It’s not just liberals, it’s intellectual people all over the world. We can’t figure out how seemly rational people can watch Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin and not realize just how boringly average and generally “just-not-smart” these two people are. You’d think some of you Jeezo-Freaks thought they were the second coming. It’s both funny and sad and scary all at the same time, like that ride at the State Fair.

    • John

      I swear Gore’s nose is growing. Between he, Pelosi, and Obama you could almost bet the farm that we’re on an energy doomsday mission. Maybe so, but only at the hands of that formidable group of liars. Energy? Boy! Have we got some! Everybody’s love child O says the US has only 3% of the worlds supply of oil. Sounds like the “Peak Oil” scare from a few years back has taken hold. It’s time to change our minds and political leaders. Google “Bakken.” It’s the new little “Oil Patch” (little if you listen to the terrible trio) in the Williston Basin of North Dakota. Originally surveyed at 503 billion barrels in three separate shale layers, a fourth layer was located at a 12,000 depth (called the Three Forks – Sannis), and is believed to contain an equal amount if not more. If so, that’s one trillion barrels, and that’s ten times larger than Saudi Arabia’s original 106 billion when ARAMCO preceded OPEC – 40 years ago. And we’ve got it right here at home. All totaled, say a few hundred years at our current consumption rate. Natural gas, a by product of oil production, could not be contained in ND this past winter, so oil producers had to burn it off. So much, in fact, that the burn off could have heated every home & business in ND (for nothing). So if anyone tells you we can’t get oil out of shale, tell them you know all about “fracking” (the lasted production technology) of oil shale deposits. Actually, tell them to go pound sand! Then tell them you’re aware of the other trillions of barrels in Wyoming, Colorado, and most specifically in the oil sands of Utah. Lied to? You bet! And it’s far from being over with that group of Chicago thugs. If you don’t believe this – ask a Liberal. They’re so smart, and usually have all the answers without any research to support the growth of their own noses.

      • DaveH

        Yep, we have the Climate Calamity, and the Healthcare Calamity (if you believe the Liberals). We need to hurry and solve these problems no matter how much in debt we become. Bull.
        The only real Calamity I see was caused by the Real Estate Bubble which was spurred on by government involvement in bank lending practices and too much money creation.
        And (correct me if I’m wrong) I’ve heard that much of the stimulus money is going to state governments that have gotten themselves into trouble with their wild spending and high taxation of their citizens.
        Big Government is the problem, not the solution.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Undoubtedly to liberal hotbeds that are bankrupt and in trouble like California and New York, where liberalism rules. That is the new norm, reward those for bad behavior, and punish the successful. Our Indiana governor, Mitch Daniels has balanced our budget, after taking over from a Democrat, Frank Obannon who had us loosing money hand over fist. Im surprised Obama doesnt make Indiana pay California, because in the lefts mind, it isnt right that we have, and they dont.

  • http://none Jim Lowe

    A science inventor group I work with approached Al Gore with the intention of letting him participate in proven inventions we have. He blew us off and would not look at them. They meet and exceed all the criteria of wind and other present energy saver and creation devices including air and water pollution. They involve magnetism, friction, gravity and other energy sources. We see Al Gore has taken many millions of dollars for foreign auto operations out of everybody elses’ tax money though. Too bad though because we would of made Al Gore more money then he is stealing from US the American taxpayer.

    • George S. Saliga

      Would be interested in the magnitic generation you are talking about. I have heard of this tech. even bought plans to build a small magnetic generator but plans were not complete or very poor at best. Do you have a workable prototype?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I wouldnt invite Al Gore to eat earthworms. The guy is all about himself and how much money he can get. Thats it.

  • Robert

    Here are two green alternatives that the liberals wont even consider. Nuclear Power being one and a proven alternative. The second is building tidal generators. The second is a constant. As long as we don’t blow up the moon, tides will always rise and recede. We have the technology but the environmentalists have blocked every attempt to get it off the ground. Or how about using some of the stimulus money to build and extensive light rail system thoughout the US. Why doesn’t the geniuses in Washington earmark money for a study on that? Oh yea! They might not get their kickbacks if they actually tried to reduce oil consumption in this country.

    • DaveH

      Robert, I have heard of no Government transportation scheme that has paid for itself. They exist only because the Government has deep pockets (the taxpayer’s pockets).

      • denniso

        DaveH…nuclear can’t exist w/o gov’t support..too expensive,too dangerous to be insured,too much extremely toxic waste!

      • DaveH

        Did I say anything about Nuclear, Donkey?

      • eyeswideopen

        Dave, MIT study in 2003, found that in deregulated markets nuclear power is not now competive with coal and natural gas. Carbon emissions credits if enacted by government can give nuclear power a cost advantage. For you to have your nuclear, our government which you hate, would have to step in and assist.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Dave does not hate our government. He hates the way it grows and grows itself and sucks the live out of us. I understand that, dont you? Its not the concept of government, or government itself, it is the selfish corrupt people that run it these days that only care about the next box of dollar bills someone is going to give them to do something. They have lost their way. And whether its nuclear, oil, coal or anything else, there will always be waste to deal with. Id rather burn up the oil now and the waste is burnt up. With nuclear, allthough very efficient, there are barrels and barrels of stuff that they bury deep in Nevada and other places, that one day will find their way out of the containers they are in, then where does it go?

    • Peter

      Robert, you are correct, all forms of clean energy must be produced in order to guarantee baseload, however this will require not only huge initial investment, but absolute cooperation between the states in allowing the interconnectivity of all energy production, so that energy produced by all renewable sources can be directed to any area across the country that needs it. What I mean is, if the wind drops in one area and they need to draw from California’s grid where the wind is strong on the coast, or they have tidal energy, that can be directed via a truly national grid, to where it’s needed. I believe also there is one MAJOR reason no coal or oil companies want renewables to succeed, and that is purely because there is zero ongoing fuel load to be charged on to consumers. This reduces their capability to expand profits on an inflationary basis as has been the custom for many years. They can only charge for the initial infrastructure costs and ongoing maintenance. This reduces profitability significantly, so they talk down the whole renewable energy debate for purely selfish reasons.

    • denniso

      Nuclear is not even close to ‘green’. Mining uranium is full of environmental problems and the waste issue is no ‘green’ process. The generating plants only have a 25 yr or so lifespan…the plant then has to sit idle for 10,000 yrs guarded against entry because of high radiation levels..the power generation uses huge quantities of water every day of operation. Not very ‘green’!

      • JeffH

        Nuclear would easily be the way to go. Nuclear energy generates 20% of US electricity. Nuclear powerplants produce clean, reliable and affordable electricity. As of 2004, nuclear power provided 6.5% of the world’s energy and 15.7% of the world’s electricity, with the U.S., France, and Japan together accounting for 57% of nuclear generated electricity. There are 104 commercial nuclear generating units that are fully licensed by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) to operate in the United States. Of these 104 reactors, 69 are categorized a pressurized water reactors (PWRs) totaling 65.100 net megawatts (electric) and 35 units are boiling water reactors (BWR) totaling 32.300 net megawatts (electric). Nuclear power is the only energy industry which takes full responsibility for all its wastes, and costs this into the product.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        But these wastes are generated, and from the shows Ive watched on this, they are put into containers and buried deep in the Nevada desert and other places. You and I both know that someday, these things will seep out and get out of their containment packages. My question is, then what happens? It might not be pretty. But you do have a point about the power it creates, quite a bit of energy. But its not really clean, as the by product it leaves behind is much worse that the smoke from my cars exhaust.

      • JeffH

        Waste Management in the Nuclear Fuel Cycle
        (Updated June 2009)
        Nuclear power is the only large-scale energy-producing technology which takes full responsibility for all its wastes and fully costs this into the product.
        The amount of radioactive wastes is very small relative to wastes produced by fossil fuel electricity generation.
        Used nuclear fuel may be treated as a resource or simply as a waste.
        Safe methods for the final disposal of high-level radioactive waste are technically proven; the international consensus is that this should be deep geological disposal.
        http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf04.htm

      • kathleen

        JeffH…’Happy Thanksgiving’…You said that the nuclear industry takes responsibility for it’s waste…hardly! Your tax dollars go to the multi billion $$ WIPP in Carlsbad,NM to store rdioactive waste for the next 10,000 yrs…the federal gov’t has spent more billions of your tax $$ on the Yucca Mountain,Nevada, debacle for nuclear waste storage..you are paying for it in taxes..I’m paying for it..we’re all paying for it inhigher taxes.

      • eyeswideopen

        Kathleen, thank you for pointing that out. If I did it,they would just assume that I was trying to deceive them. Happy Thanksgiving to you!!

      • American Citizen

        There is also the danger of a nuclear accident with those plants. Look what happened at Chernobyl. The plants they were building here in this country were stopped because of what happened at one plant in, I believe, Pennsylvania or Ohio. I know Duke Energy was building one on the Ohio River and was forced to stop, losing tons of money and forcing our rates to go up.

    • eyeswideopen

      Robert, love the tidal generators idea. Here in Fl, we passed a rail bill which the Republican legislators are avoiding funding. Nuclear is a costly source, 6-10 billion and it takes approx 15-18 years to build. One of our major electric companies is going to build one, and are charging the customers in advance for the cost. Can’t wrap my brain around why customers should pay, when they may not ever use that service… may move or die prior to completion. Once again the consumer is underwritting the Corporations cost of doing business.

      • NMOilMan

        Eyeswideopen, To Quote you:

        “Once again the consumer is underwritting the Corporations cost of doing business.”

        Welcome to the free market. If you want energy you must pay for it. You either pay for gas, oil, coal, or electricity. If you do not want to pay, then get yourself a wagon and axe and proceed to the forest and cut down some trees if your conscience will allow.

        The existing “Green” technologies are not GREEN. Each windmill takes huge amounts of energy to produce. From smelting & refining the metals, to actually standing the finished product upright. Solar cells, which are very inefficient, are very energy intensive to produce. You must purify silica into molten ingots, and then make the cells, and the finished products. All these are very energy intensive processes.

        Corporations exist for profits, not the average person’s benefit. When people realize this, they realize how to use the corporations to benefit their own needs. Corporations are not the enemy.

        Also, expecting the government to fix all problems is ridiculous. The average American forgets that he is responsible for his own life and needs, not the government. We live in a federal republic, not a socialist or welfare state. Take responsibility for your own needs. If you do not like a product, such as gas or diesel, then switch to another mode of energy. If enough like minded people make the decision to move away, then new forms of energy will become economically viable and displace oil and gas.

        Stop blaming companies, they exist to make profits for their owners/shareholders, not be sub-servant to your wishes. Stop expecting the government to provide your every need. The government was not created to provide your every need. If you want the government to provide for all your needs, move to some other country.

        With respect to nuclear energy:

        Fusion – decades away. The technology is not even close to making a viable reactor.

        Fission – is a great source of reliable energy. Yes, mining the uranium and making the fuel rods is a messy process. The waste is an issue that needs to be settled. But it does work, and is viable now. Also, we need to build commercial breeder and recycle reactors to reprocess the existing used fuel rods into new rods.

        With respect to fuel cells: years away, and still lacking the energy density and output for widespread adoption.

        Just for your information and to stop all those from asking: I presently work in oil & gas refining, I have previously worked in nuclear waste, fuel cells research and production, solar cells research, and battery research. And if you need more, I have also worked in nano materials development and production. I have a B.S. in Chemistry, and a M.S. in Chemical Engineering.

      • eyeswideopen

        NM Oil man. at least you admit your bias. I don’t expect the government to underwrite corporations. I expect a business to pick up the cost of doing business. This country has gotten to the point that we are giving IBM 400 million subsidies for their retired employees pharmaceutical needs. Why should my tax dollars help underwrite Ibm retired employees? Subsidies to corporations is not what any normal taxpayer wants to participate in. You obviously want and condone that type of activity. I bet you just loved the bail out too didn’t you? This country is presently being run by Big Corporations and not the citizens. The companies who donate and lobby the congressmen, purchasing their votes, are those who are dictating the laws. We have no representation. The American people are now seeing the corruption involving the major corporations and they don’t like it.
        I don’t expect the government to do anything for me, other than to prevent the corporations from becoming monopolies preventing freedom of choice, like what has happened with the Health Insurance Industry. I don’t want my government involved in big business and I don’t want big business involved in government. Is that asking too much? What type of subsidies does your company receive?

      • Prometheus

        Nmoilman,

        I never had much faith in wind mills,the more houses and the more factories you build,the more wind mills.I think it is a no win situation.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Blame it on the republican legislators? Come on man. The dems get what the dems want. Quit pointing fingers allready.

      • eyeswideopen

        Beber, dude the state of Florida is owned and run by Republicans. Which is sad but true. We desperately need some Independents, but they can’t win against the Repubs. Our governor has spent more time on road, campaigning for others, and himself, than he has spent in his office working. Now he is running for Senate, so we see him more, and less work gets done.

      • JeffH

        Gee, that sounds awful familiar. Who else could have done that?

  • http://MYACTATBLOG Earl Troter

    John, it is my firm opinion that you are wrong and that along with what we have
    now future technologies will improve and expand current ideas for GREEN
    ENERGY! With all of your background and experience I suggest that you THINK
    AND RETHINK the situation for your own personal future benefits.

    THANKS FOR YOUR TIME!

    • TxMom

      Earl you say that he is wrong but do not counter with the supporting information you used to base you opinion.

      Will you please expand on how John is wrong and the information that helped your form your view?

    • DaveH

      John forgot one important factor. The wind generators are a blight on our environment. So much so that one of the green promoters, Ted Kennedy, was throwing a fit because a proposed wind farm would blight the view from his estate. Had wind generation farms been a conservative idea, the Liberals would have had a hissy fit.
      It is not about the environment. They want complete control of our lives and our wallets. And they will use any sweet sounding lie to accomplish that.

      • eyeswideopen

        Dave, drill baby drill, is not the solution for the east coast. You may live inland, where the appreciation for water not blighted by sand oil is not even given a thought, but there are many on the coast who do not want their beautiful beaches ruined and their tourist industry slaughtered. Those big corporations that you so love, and which we are totally dependent upon for our energy, hopefuly won’t be allowed to put further states at risk.

      • JeffH

        DaveH, the liberal hack didn’t waste any time jumping on your back.
        If we allow Obummer to have his way, nobody will be able to afford to enjoy the beach and pristine waters. She’ll be cuddling up to that DONKEY soon enough.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      You must be democrat Earl. My case in point. You critize and tell him to re-think, thus insinuating he is wrong, but you offer no solution, just your opinion that he is wrong. You have to be a liberal, as this is straight out of the liberal playbook. If someone disagree’s with you, they are wrong and it’s the end of the story. Makes me want to go driving around tonight and burn up a tank of gas in your honor.

    • paul

      Good one Txmom, because it’s typical of the liberals to avoid the answers for everything, just that it is so, because they say so.

      And for eyeswideopen, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Where do you think Brazil drills? In the mountains? You just keep buying all the propagonda the left wing media and people like Gore sell. I haven’t heard of any oil spills lately in Brazil and for you liberals that push technology, well technology also works for improving oil digging machinery and other safety measures too. And don’t tell me about people who live near the East coast not wanting it. I live 3 blocks from the beach! So stop talking for everyone, another typical liberal move.

    • L.E. Mc Ginnis

      John Meyers is correct. All you commenters can opine all you want, but Science & Thermodynamics are on the side of Mr. Meyers. All the name calling doesn’t change the Science. The only viable alternative clean green energy source is hot Fusion, and we ain’t there yet. Its even worse than the article states. Hydrogen technology won’t work either. You can’t win if you use electricity for the electrolysis of water to make hydrogen to make electricity to make more Hydrogen etc. etc. If you make hydrogen by any of the other viable processes from steam,you generate as much CO2 as as you do hydrogen. There is no Wizard with a “magic fix” behind the curtain.

    • Jon Willey

      Earl, in typical liberal speak you have questioned evidence that is clearly supported, but in opposition to your misinformed, illogical opinion. Yet offer no sound scientific or engineering proof to substantiate your opinion. Glittering generalities and unscientific gobbledygook are the trademarks of snake oil salesmen. Grace us with the proof that indisputably supports what you espouse.

  • Marilyn

    Thank you for such a simple concise explanation of this problem. I have ALWAYS questioned for an answer to the “no wind” solution. You explained it very well.

    • Jana

      Call your Senator today on whether you want the Senate to vote on whether or not to have a discussion on this Health Care Bill. They are voting on this tomorrow, Sat.the 21st. If they vote yes, it is almost a positive that it will go through.

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