I knew I liked you…great response.

Actually, about one of the only government programs I care for is the Fire Department. But even that can easily be privately owned and operated as a form of local insurance. That only requires local property tax, not a single thing to do with Federal taxes at all. Makes sense that each owner of property should pay a little something to keep their property safe from run away fires.

Police department doesn’t need near as many people as it has. Take of 99% of the gun laws and let each and every lawful citizen be armed and the only thing that would need to be done is to write up the crime scene.

“Two wrongs do not make a right.” I love the argument that because Bush was bad, then Obama is good. Bush and Co. grew the government WAY too much. I was disgusted with them. But Obama makes their spending look like dimestore stuff. And not just spending us into oblivion, but taking away any and all our personal freedoms while he’s at it. And BTW, there were congressional hearings on whether or not McCain (whom I would never vote for) was qualified to be prez, but not one question about Obama who has never released any documents that could prove he is a “natural born” citizen. And he has spent approximately 1 million dollars on lawyers to keep his records sealed. Why? What is he hiding?

Well the Republican Governor of Hawaii, please underscore Republican has validated his birth certificate and it has been shown on cnn,nbc, msnbc, cbs, abc but not on the Rep’s faux news channel Fox. It is so funny that 59% of the reps watch that show, murdock has bought and paid for the republican thought process. If it is on Fox they believe it….so sad. Why don’t all you birthers just admit that you are racist and can’t stand a black man being pres. That would be more intelligent and understandable, rather than this crap about the birth certificate. Basically, you are saying that the Reps who vetted him, were incompetent?? Millions were spent by the rnc to try and find the goods prior to him winning the nomination, maybe you should complain to the national party, because they didn’t find anything.

You do realize, that based on investigation, there were four distinct ways of getting a certificate of live birth in Hawaii in the time of 1963? Of those four, only one would prove that individual was actually born in Hawaii. The other three equate to mail-ins with no supporting proof that the infant was actually born in the state. I’m guessing, since B.O. has absolutely refused to present his long form Birth Certificate, it was based on one of the other three. Meaning, he has no proof of being a ‘Natural’ American Citizen. He may be a citizen, but so can someone from Iraq walking in though the immigration ‘gate’. Based just on odds, it is 75% unlikely that Obama can actually prove Natural citizenship. Being that he has gone out of his way to avoid the evidential document, that likely hood goes up to about 99% that he can not prove Natural born Citizenship, which is a Constitutional Requirement for his job position.

It’s interesting what the Governor doesn’t say about the document he reported on seeing. He didn’t say that Obama was a “natural” born citizen, only that he has seen the documents. In any case, remember the rule about politicians: They lie. They lie even when the truth would serve them as well.

I don’t think the Governor swore anything under oath either, so the ‘evidence’ is plainly hearsay, and wouldn’t be admitted to a court of law with any other weight attached, assuming a court will touch the subject, which each and every one is afraid to do, when it is their Constitutional Duty to hear, see the evidence and rule the case.

Oh, I agree we should definately treat him like a dog and ask to see his papers….It wouldn’t matter to any of the radical rt. Did you also know that John McCain isn’t even listed in any hospital paperwork on the supposed day he was born? Was he really born in the Panama Canal?? No records, and there is photocopy showning ommission of his name on date he claims he was born…What were his parents trying to hide? They didn’t file a 240aform to request his naturalization. Must be a conspiracy of some sort. Like I said before, so wise that his parents must have known that a poor black kid was going to be president and had the forethought to lie and plant birth notices in both newspapers. unbelievable…what would it really take?? You have already stated that nothing could convince you. This debate is over for me,,and the Birther’s can’t do anything about it but sound like bad losers. Like I said take it to the RNC they failed you, in more ways than one.

Actually, who said that his parents had to have any idea he was going to go in for politics when he was older? The only thing that they might have wanted was Barack Obama to be a US Citizen with all the benefits. Tris has very little to do with the Politician of today, but of expediency of when he was born.

Don

Whether that is true about Bush or not, then hiding that fact wouldn’t neccessarily have made him ineligible to be President, even though it would have made it difficult for him while he WAS President. I imagine most politicians have skeletons in their closets. It’s just a matter of whether the press or anyone else can dig up the truth on someone that is in the public spotlight. On the other hand, if Obama is not a Naturalized American citizen, then he shouldn’t be the President now. The question then remains, why is he working so hard to hide this information people are asking about?

Don,
“Republicans in secret said”. That’s funny, not much of a secret I guess. Talk about backing your statements up with fact!

you go, the truth never hurts anyone. an i like the entire comment. an i am a conservative and yes i voted for obama.

me too.

Well I am an Independent, & try as hard as I could, I just couldn’t stand listening to him let alone vote for him. I recognized a Snake Oil Salesman when I heard one. I did try, but I just couln’t stomach it and saw him for the phoney he was.

Are you kidding???? John McCain was born on a US base as many military families have had children on US bases all over the world. Are you trying to say that all military families children born on US bases around the world are not US citizens??? That has been the law since troops & their families have served over seas. No one passed a new law in 2009. Tsk, tsk!

No, they are citizens, just not “natural Born” citizens. Untill recent laws changed, parents had to file naturalization papers to insure that they would be considered US citizens. Technically McCains parent were supposed to have filed a 240A form for naturalization, which they didn’t do. Presently legal scholars debate that the Panama Canal was never a sovereign territory and that any aggrieved taxpaper would have the right to challenge McCain’s qualifications if he were elected president. This remains an issue that the Supreme Court should hear and then Congress needs to change the constitution to allow naturalized citizen to run for president.

Thats another Mark Smilee, not me. Ill have to start adding a B to mine.

Now hold on here. I pay taxes to pay the fireman, and agree to. We need them. I pay taxes to fix and repair and upkeep the roads, and agree to, because again, we need them. I buy stamps to pay to deliver my postage, as the US Mail is not the government, they are a separate entity, a business have you, that charges for its service, whether it be mailing a letter or deliverying a big box. They are a for profit business. But I do take issue with them taking my tax dollars and paying for illegal aliens, and paying for those who dont want to work. Yeah, I got a big big problem with that. The church is to take care of the poor, not the government. That is what part of the 10 percent out of every check I tithe to my home church, along with my donations to the local missions help with. The government doing this is stepping in the way of the church, and though we always have the cries of separation of church and state, we need separation of state and church, and the government needs to get out of the hand out business, and let the church’s take care of it, as charged with by God himself. The government taking over health care will be a big mistake, its so easy to see it coming. Its transparent as can be, and it has nothing to do with democrat or republican, its just a bad bad idea. It will be paid for by someone, which will be the working people, and we will be paying for all those who dont want to work, still. And yes, right or wrong, I got a problem with that.

Trouble is Mark, the churches have only done a small portion of taking care of the poor etc. and often require an allegiance to their religious beliefs as well,Sme not all, so how about all those they have not helped that need help. How about the homeless veteran suffering often from the effects of his service to his country. Yes to the old coot, he does pay taxes and cares nothing about those who are unable too. Many are born disabled and I have known many, some have never been able to work, some very limited in their ability to work, their are many legitimate reasons for many who cannot pay for these or their health services. Most countries have figured this out, we as yet have not and Mark it is people like you and this old coot who have worked hard to see this does not happen so you can horde your riches and to hell with those who have not been as fortunate as you. SSI for the disabled pays about $800.00mo, you can have almost no assets and are forbidden to make no more than about $850.00 or you loose your SSI, so we barely take care of these as well and you people have no feelings for these people w2ho through fault of their own have to live this life. Brag on about your tithing Mark, I see it as a guilt offering not as a charitable act given out of love.

No, I pay taxes to participate in all the items listed. Many of those on welfare don’t pay taxes because they don’t work yet they benefit from all these “collective” items you have listed.
“Selfish old coot”…typical liberal personal attack when their argument is weak!

No not as you please but for those things that we can not do for ourselves and today few can no longer afford health care, Many reasons and one is all you have to do is lose your job and few can afford the COBRA premium which is a 102% of the total premium, for a family this could easily be $2000.00 a month when they have little or no income, in 2004 I was on COBRA for myself and it cost me $590.00 a month, I was near retirement and had enough money to pay for it but younger people with out enough money are shit out of luck. Greedy, to me this is when someone who can afford to help, takes the attitude of screw you, I care nothing about you, That’s old coot’s attitude as well as yours and Mark and Mark even claims he is a Christian, of course all Christians do sin too. Health care for a healthy socity that would benefit everyone and is now a necessity. There is far cheaper ways to do this than though Medicaid, Medicare has proven this over forty some years, now if we could reform the funding of it and place all the taxes for it and SS in trusts funds so the congress and president would have to find other places to fund everything else, that would be reform. Remember Al Gore’s call for these monies to be put in a trust fund what he called “LOCK BOXES” which was a damm good idea that Bush totally laughed off during his presidency. Loose your health or wealth and any of us could be in that position at that time in the future and then you will Thank God for those of us that care.

the mark of a good general in battle is to stand back and regrou if the oppisition grows too fierce, and this sob is good ! he is determined to push this health care law because it is as evil as he is. lets push to see his birth certificate

Smilee,

It is typical of the left to castigate, insult, and demonize anyone with an opposing viewpoint. This is particularly evident recently from people in the Obama admistration, as well as the Democrats in the House and Senate regarding anyone that opposes the current Health Care bill. It appears this is how liberals believe they best demonstrate intelligence about a particular subject. Congratulations!! You fit right into this group.

Read the bill yourself Smilee, it’s on the web.

DaveH

I have, and found out that your stories on of it are quite different than the real thing. Second there are other bills as well and none will be the final version voted on and after that the conference committee. The senate does not even have one yet, you conservatives are famous for putting the horse before the cart, you know ass backwards

Smilee,
You won’t believe anything contrary to your opinion, because you don’t want to believe anything contrary to your opinion. Your mind is closed like a steel trap.
Are you a member of Acorn, or SEIU, or some other related organization assigned to this website to spread your party’s misinformation?
Anyone who has really read the bill knows that you are spouting nonsense much if not most of the time.

DaveH says:
August 19, 2009 at 7:50 am

No Dave, You said I was Black but I’m white, Not a member of Acorn or SEIU. here of my own free, think for myself and give only my own opinions, You blew it again didn’t you, your not smart enough to ever figure out who I am, your out of your league with me. Us liberals are that opened minded and because of many on this site yourself included who do not know how to think for themselves they are incapable of understanding so they resort to what you just did, sort of like goosing ghosts in the dark. Lost and confused souls. If you read the bill then it is clear it was beyond your ability to comprehend it and this seems to be the problem with many here. Many objective fact finders who have examined it have come to the same conclusion I have, Your great MS Palin got it totally wrong and you appear to be as ignorant about this issue as she is.

YOUR POST

Smilee,
You won’t believe anything contrary to your opinion, because you don’t want to believe anything contrary to your opinion. Your mind is closed like a steel trap. Are you a member of Acorn, or SEIU, or some other related organization assigned to this website to spread your party’s misinformation? Anyone who has really read the bill knows that you are spouting nonsense much if not most of the time.

I agree again Smilee, we all need to know the truth. Thats why no one here should believe you, believe me, or believe Dave or anyone else, thats why I fully recommend the one week trip to Canada, and go fishing where you are around everyday run of the mill average people, and see what they tell you. My info I got comes from them, and for me, its a lot easier to believe someone when they live there, are subject to it, and have no reason to lie to me when I ask them questions. You and I may attempt to put our political spin on things, but the truth is out there, youve just got to go up there and ask about it, and YOU WILL GET ANSWERS. I did.

The problem is the FDA and the AMA have a cart blanche on being able to say what and what is not legal.

For example, Marinol Oral is a legal drug that a friend of mine has been proscribed. It has a list of bad side effects as long as my arm. It costs $800.00 per month for the prescription. It’s one and only active ingredient is a synthetic verson of the feel good chemical in pot.

His doctor, off the record of course, stated he should just smoke pot and get the needed benifits without all of the side-effects (Such as kidney failure), costing less then a tenth the price. He does, and not only is it cheaper, but the effects are more reliable. (He had a nerve cut, which normally informs you that you are hungry. Without it, he looks at food and just feels sick and can’t eat unless he forces the issue.)

Now the FDA states that Marijuana has no medicinal value, and keeps it illegal as a dangerous substance. If you look at Marijuana related deaths there was one or two in America over the period of a year. When you actually look at those cases, it was not a primary component of the death, just an secondary aspect of it.

In my studying of reforming the Health Care system, the biggest, most effective step we can do is privatize the FDA and AMA and give it NO legal jurisdiction. Instead, make them only sources of information, to allow people to make informed judgments on who and what they want to have for their health care. If a doctor has a history of fouling up, people can find that out and decide if they want him as their doctor or not. If thousands of patients are dying based on a drug (such as what we are going to see with the swine flu vaccinations), make that information public and allow the person to choose!

As more health care professionals are available and prices are no longer fixed, and subject to economic supply and demand, the economy will cause the health care prices to drop. Bad drug companies and doctors will go out of business.

For example, Lasik Surgery is pretty much free from a majority of government controls. Guess what? Lasik eye surgery is now safer and _cheaper_ then it was five years ago! Same thing with cosmetic surgery. It is now safer and cheaper then it was 10 years ago so you don’t need insurance to buy it. Supply and demand is making it cheaper.

You can not state any two businesses, and probably have a hard time thinking of even just one, government has successfully run in the black. Two of the most predominate businesses Federal Government has got their hands in are the US Post Office and AMTRAK. Amtrack was supposed to be bought and sold within a year or so, to start making a profit. It has _never_ made a profit since the fed bought it. In addition, it is illegal to compete against it! US Post office is running a billion in the red every year. Other businesses, such as Federal Express (No it isn’t really Federal) and UPS are making a profit.

Medicare and Medicaid is running DEEP in the red. In fact, so far in debt, that by 2040, it will be the only two programs that the government can afford, no military, not even any money to be able to pay for the government itself. (As published by the American Comptroller General of 2007) Some brain damaged people think that it might be safe to give over health care reform to the government?

ANd of you think it should be just so the government can give competition to insurance companies, well the government has a benefit that no company can overcome. It can lower prices so far, that it would kill off every other company. It can do this because it has the ability to CREATE money to fund it. It doesn’t matter if it runs 10billion in the red every year, because the tax payers will pick up the tab.

Since this government can’t run anything well, why in the hell do you people let them run the military? You don’t think they can protect us? Oh, that’s right we did have a small problem, but wasn’t that due to two (Bush Cheney) of our own not listening to the intelligence agencies?? Since you don’t want to grow government, why don’t we reduce our military back to the size of when the Constitution was written? You people are just not living in the real world, this country has 300 million people trying to do the right thing and live a decent life. You rt wingers want to act like we have 20,000 and don’t ever need to grow government,to provide for the additional population..

I don’t trust the government to run the Military either. That is why we have the 2nd Amendment. The founders states that we should never have a standing Army, only a navy. The states can provide the militia (which based on Constitutional law is every able bodied man (probably American now women can fight just as well) between the ages of 17 and 45 make up the militia.

Now as for government growing with the population, that would Constitutionally, legally, be an increase only the Congress, which is directly based on Census.

There is no, none, not any lawfully backing authority for 95% of the statutes, laws, legislation and government agencies to exist. Education? We went from the Number 1 educated nation in the world to thirteenth in line since the creation of the Bureau of Education, and it has only gotten worse as government has gotten deeper into it, such as ‘no child left behind’. If you can find a single educator who considers that travesty a good thing, you can submit them to “Ripley’s Believe it or Not”.

I have to thank the movie “Con Air” for being so accurate on the definition of insanity: To do the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result. Why are we so enmeshed in the tennis match of Demokins vs Republicrats, when both are guilty of lying, cheating, taking bribes and screwing our nation up further and further as the years go by? Lets make a real change, vote in a Libertarian government.

I get confused on the Liberal’s views of Libertarian, that some how Libertarian’s want a “Road Warrior”, no government situation, where people are killing each other at the drop of a hat. This is patently not true. Libertarians want little government, and that government only has one job, to protect your rights as it was placed in the Bill of Rights.

The distinct difference between a Liberal and a Libertarian: A liberal trusts no one to do the right thing unless forced to by power with overwhelming force to back it up. That no one has the right to keep their own property. They believe weapons should only be government controlled to hold up that power. A libertarian trusts his fellow man to do the right thing. He has a right to fully own the property he worked for. A gun is tool for those rare and few times when that trust is broken.

Shain, oh, how I would love to be able to go backwards. Yes, I own a gun and basically believe in some of your points, however the radicals in this country,make it hard to trust in your fellow man. ie. our present war. There was a time when we actually did function as you suggest, but being a realist means that with this large of a population, we can’t function as we did when we had so few. Our education decline is due to parents who refuse to participate. They are too busy making the almighty dollar. But you have peaked my interest and I will be doing more research as my party is using logic and has really grown the government.

Why are people afraid of decreasing the government? Why is it we don’t trust ourselves to make educated choices, or just plain stupid ones and live with the consequences. This is an age of knowledge. Never before has there been such free access to voice your opinions and gain information at the touch of your fingertips. Maybe that is why Senator Rockefeller wants to shut down the freedom of the internet?

The situation in America has never gotten better by increasing the size of the government ant it’s bureaucracy. As matter of fact, I would like to see if any nation on earth, past or present, has benefited the people with out reaching government control.

So government gets bigger, the situation gets worse. Why not try another social experiment and reverse the trend? Let us scientifically find out if shrinking government and it’s controls will make us better or worse. I only ask the government to stick to the simple rules that each of it’s employees swore to defend and uphold. Just reading the documents, including each preface, gives you insight on how they are supposed to be followed.

There are three documents we need to remember-

The Declaration of Independence. Read the preface. Understand that if the government is no longer By the People, For the People we have the right, and the duty to replace it, or at least return it to where it is supposed to be at.

The Constitution. It contains the foundation of powers that our government has. It also controls and limits those powers.

The Bill of Rights. The preface states that the Constitution is a limiting document to the Government. The Bill of Rights shall not be violated by any of the powers granted to the Government. Just the last two, the ninth and the tenth, give cart blanch power to the people and the states over the federal government. You are starting to see a recovery of those two after being exiled for so long. States are starting to stand up to the federal government on medicinal marijuana and the right to bear arms. They are also warning the federal government that succession may occur if it doesn’t back off.

It is up to the states and the people to reserve the powers not delegated specifically to the Federal Government. Lawfully, we have a duty to ignore, or set right, bad laws.

Observe the groups coming together.

Oathkeepers: For those who have taken an oath of office and actually do mean it!

DownsizeDC.org: A group for shrinking of government.

Republic Magazine, for hard hitting articles and great information that the big medial ignores or gets incorrect.

Republic Broadcasting Network: republicbroadcasting.org for online talk radio. My favorite shows are The Dave Champion Show w/Dave Champion, 2A Radio w/Bill Carns, and the newer show, Radio Free Market w/ Michael McKay. (Both Dave and Bill are ex-Police officers so have some good insights on law.)

A solid post! I read it a couple of times and you make some valid points. Your opinions on the FDA and AMA are interesting. Please visit and post more often.

That should have read…

Shain!

A solid post! I read it a couple of times and you make some valid points. Your opinions on the FDA and AMA are interesting. Please visit and post more often.

Thank you for the positive reply. I’ll try to hang around. I’m effective with constructive criticism as well. You never learn any thing more unless required to deal with the weaknesses in one’s debate.

I spent the rest of the nite on Ron Paul’s web site along with the other ones, very interesting talk with husband this a.m. Can you direct me to more websites? thx.

Eyes,
If you like Ron Paul, I think you will like this online book (I’ve posted it above, also, but I think you’re more likely to see it here):
http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

Eyes,
Also try cato.org, mises.org, reason.org, reason.com, and libertarianparty.org

I agree that we need some sort of reform, which I believe to be making the drug companies lower prices, and making the doctors and hospitals stop charging so much. I mean, I had a knee surgery, Im in there under the knife for 30 minutes, 30 minute prep, and they make you stay 1 hour after waking up to be sure your allright, and its 8 thousand dollars. No way. I dont believe the solution is national health care, because of the problems it brings, in that being free, hypochondriacs will be lined up around the block, you will be forced to wait and wait, and I truly believe the qaulity of the care and the doctors will go straight down hill. The solution is that drug companies and hospitals dont need to be making 7000 percent profit, then call themselves a not for profit corporation. Uh, so where does that money go, from their profits? I like my health care the way it is, but yes, it should be a lot more affordable, but I guess Ive just talked face to face with real Canadians in real Canadian cities, over a 20 year period, and all have told me horror stories of why we dont want it here. I have read in some of these post from some who say they are Canadians and these stories are lies, but when I hear it from the horses mouth, face to face, eye to eye, with no reason to lie, I have to believe what Im told, not what I read in here. So if any of you, I would challenge you to go to Canada on a fishing trip for a week, and meet some of the locals, and talk this over, and see what you hear. Dont take my word for it, Im writing words also and could be a liar, though I am not. Go and seek the truth for yourselves, and tell me what you find. Like I said, over a 20 year period of 15 trips, Ive heard the exact same stories from different people in different provinces over and over again, and Im convinced I dont want it and that it isnt good for us.

If I remove from your post the word “ultralibs” from this post and inserted the initials S C this would be a truthful post, and S C you do in fact live in a fantasy world and are out of touch with reality.

SC, I’m dissapointed in you. You could come up with more names than that. Did you fail fourth grade? This is the age where the young really develops name calling. I expect more from you next time. I know you can do it.

Lets see, liberal thought trains brought us Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Hussein, Rev. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Bill Clinton and now Barack Obama. Not my sort to follow. No thanks.

Yep, American Cancer Society propaganda!

Bang on the money.

Sorry Smilee,
Although my statements are pertinent to you also, I meant to address the previous comment to Foolpatrol.

Dave, sorry for your anger….Our parents didnt have private insurance companies making 200% profit every year. I agree with you, we shouldn’t have Medicare for anyone including you. But when we do that we can’t continue to claim that this party is Christian based or that as a country we take care of our own because we don’t. Don’t you get it? You can’t walk on both sides.
Yes, I’m sure the children will look at the facts and see that us Reps were out of control for 8 years, and that we didn’t have the balls to admit we made mistakes and try to fix energy, education, immigration,banking, or health care…I am already apologizing to my kids for the politicians I put in office. We need term limits for the Senate, those men don’t have the best interest of this country, they just want power, and they have lost touch with the middle class.
Certainly you aren’t saying that we did a good job while holding exclusive power for actually 12yrs are you?? If so, you need to use this internet to look at the facts.

DaveH

Interesting, that now you tell us government was getting involved starting 40 years ago, and today you are telling us you want to keep government out of health care, I think this shows how mixed up you are.

Yes government got involved in Medicare and Medicaid, one is for elderly and disabled and the other for those who can not afford insurance. The rest of the health care system has been on its own and screwed up the majority of our health care delivery, rationing, denials, waiting has been the result. You are also in denial many of the 47 million do not have the resources to afford any kind of insurance, some do, most do not and a large number of them are employed at below a living wage and their employer may not offer it and if they do he does not pay them enough for them to afford to buy it. I am 8 years older than you and well remember when you did not need insurance because the health care itself was affordable and when this went up, Insurance was more necessary but was still affordable and you still could make all the choices. Today with so many HMO’s, PPO’s and managed care plans either self inured corporations or insurance companies, with that people no longer have the choices they used to as they are made by people other than you or your doctor at a cost you cannot afford.

Newsflash Smilee,
The government has been getting increasingly involved in the healthcare business at least since I was a young adult (I’m 60 now). Things were fine 40 years ago. My parents were of modest means, and I never heard them complain once about the high cost of healthcare. If those statements you made are indeed true, they only prove that government involvement is making things worse, not better. A large portion of the 47 million you claim is made up of people, like myself, who recognize that the insurer, except in catastrophic cases, is just an unnecessary middle man who interferes in our health care decisions, thus we don’t buy the insurance. Another large portion is composed of uninsured illegal aliens. And you want a middle-man (the government) who has the power of force to interfere in our health-care decisions?
Liberals like you are just fattening the pockets of the controlling few who enjoy your blind loyalty.
Patrol yourself!

DaveH

Part two

Dave You SAy: “And you want a middle-man (the government) who has the power of force to interfere in our health-care decisions?”

What you fail to understand is you already have a middle man, your insurance companies, HMO, PPO self insured plans, who are denying coverages, rationing coverages, waiting lines in some cases and guess what this does not exist in Medicare and will not exist in the any of these reforms, in fact proposals for regulation to prohibit this in our existing third payers will stop it there too. That is what this reform is about and not what you are ranting and raving about with your misinformation and distortions.

And any government big enough to give you everything, is big enough to take it away. Thomas Jefferson.

I agree with part of your point, that if you believe in something, then put your money where your mouth is, absolutely. But I think it is a sad day, today, the way politics have boiled down to who has the most money, can do the most commercials, and advertise themselves to a victory. Thats what happened, and whether we will be better off or worse off will be told years down the road, but advertisement won the election. There are many good men and women out there, who would and could far better represent us, but they will never get a chance because its all about being a lawyer and having money out the butt, and connections to people with money, and I myself find it sad that we are ruled by money. God is my God, not money, and every stinking election I watch this run for money, who can get the most, who can spend the most, and its pretty sickening, regardless of who wins or loses, that it has come down to this. Pretty depressing.

Smilee,
Can you tell me where all that money came from? Isn’t the Republican party the party of the rich? And doesn’t the Democratic party claim to be the party of the little people? So where did those little people who don’t even have the money to buy healthcare get all that money to donate to Obama?

Lindy says: the current president actually gives a sh!t about the people that elected him

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
Barry is as narcissistic as they come. Look up narcissistic and you will find his picture right there in the dictionary! This man cares about no one but himself. He wants to go down in history as the president that made the most drastic changes. He probably has even convinced himself that these changes are good for the people… HA! He isn’t even fighting for health care reform now. He has changed it to health care insurance reform. It’s business, not what is better for America! Do you think he and Michelle and their kids will opt for this insurance change? NO! and neither will any other of the elected officials. Why do you think they will not want to be on this plan? It’s good enough for the peons, not the elected elite. This administration was elected on lies. I have yet to see where my family has gotten anything he promised. I would be overjoyed to see him propose one bill that wasn’t pork-laden, which he was so against while campaigning. That would be a change I could agree with. I honestly think this whole mess is causing an underground tremor that is waking a lot of people from an apathetic state. We needed to be shook up and really looking at the candidates and all elected officials to sort out the good from the bad. I do think a reckoning is on the horizon!

No Lindy, President Bush was all about keeping you alive so that after he was out of office, you’d still be alive to bitch about it.

“President Bush was all about keeping you alive … .”

Ask the 18,000 uninsured Americans who died each and every long year of Bush’s eight failed years from treatable conditions if the Moran was about keeping them alive?

You are so full of it. I’m not sure where you get your numbers, but people don’t die from being uninsured. I have been uninsured for the past 25+ years and have excellent healthcare. I have had 2 knee surgeries and a c-section as well as a few minor treatments. I just pay for these myself instead of paying an insurance company. I don’t run to the doctor for every little pain or runny nose or scrape. I rely on living a healthy lifestyle instead of drugs and I don’t want someone else extorting money out of me for services I don’t want. The insured tend to visit the docs over every minor thing because they are already paying through the nose for insurance and want to get some return for it– thereby causing costs to rise even more.

Foolpatrol

Doesn’t that calculate to at least 6 times the number in the 9/11 Towers attack. SHAMEFUL!

By the way, it’s MORON, not moran. You HAVE to love the irony there.

How do you know for sure Bin Laden did not make any plans to attack us and because of that Bush would have had to do nothing and that is the most likely probability, but you conservatives have to puff this guy up because he was such a do nothing president and his lack of doing nothing was what made so many problems for the country.

A valid point, but WHAT IF Bush DID keep us all alive and so many liberals have spent so many hours, days, weeks, months, and years slamming him, when all he did was to keep us alive? You can’t be certain that the leaders of your party aren’t feeding you a line of baloney, either. Let’s face it, it’s always been in the best interest of either party to NEVER admit that the other guy or girl was RIGHT. It’s very sad and it makes you wonder why any intelligent person would want to be president. So if the intelligent ones don’t run, who are we left with? Obama?

Scott says:
August 17, 2009 at 5:06 pm

If Bush really had saved us , I’m sure he could not resisted bragging about it and would have proved to us if was true, in the absence of this I think it is a fairly safe bet he did nothing.

MR. BARNEY FRANKS WITH THE HOUSING AND CRIS DOBBS WITH THE BANKING IS WHAT CAUSED OUR PROBLEMS .. REMEMBER THE LAST 2 YEARS OF THE BUSH ADM. WE HAD A DEM. CONGRESS ..

Tell that to the thousands that died in 9/11. He sure made them safe.

And tell those thousands that died how the Clintoon administration failed to go after the terrorists after the first attack. How he had him and let him go, Oh yeah and tell the families of those men who were killed in the downed blackhawks how there was an AC130 gunship 10 minutes away that could easily have given all the support necessary to get those men out. Yeah let’s put blame where it belongs. The dumocrats are now and will continue to be spineless weenies owned by Soros and now ACORN

Oh sure Lindy, and you have the corner on intelligence and informed speech? Get real liberal, your name calling and ridicule won’t work with the truly intelligent people. The Obama administration is after nothing less than the socialistic takeover of our government. And Socialism has failed throughout the world. It is all about a minority of the population (the leaders) profiting at the expense of the citizens. They keep the citizens blinded by their promises of greatness and usually get away with it until their economy collapses completely.

The government has been heavily involved in health care (as in almost everything else) at least since I’ve been an adult (I’m 60 now). They have obviously failed miserably by your own admission, and you want more? When do you liberals throw in the towel? Stubborn is not the same as intelligent.

And if health care is your right, then I guess food and shelter must be also, as the latter two can result in death a lot quicker and more surely than the lack of health care. So, you think other people should provide you with all your needs (Communism)?

Liberals seem to think that the Utopia that they are searching for can exist. This Utopia is one where everyone is taken care of and no one is ever hungry, sick, without work, or unhappy. This Utopia exists when a society can exist where we’re all entitled to the same things in life and that there are no divisions of race, religion, or prosperity. Liberals believe this Utopia can exist. If I could truly believe that government around the world (not just in the USA) is honest and incorruptible, now and forever, I might even buy into this Utopian philosophy. But… I guess I’m just not that naive.

Liberals will not be happy until we are all paying 99% of our income to the government to give us all equal measures of food, energy, health care, and prosperity (if you could call it that by then) at the expense of the people that worked hardest for what they achieved in life. Unfortunately, the problem with this “Utopia” is that eventually you run out of other people’s money and as a result the people become enslaved to their government. As this “Utopian” world continues, at some point (if you’re lucky) you will still have the wealth of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet to take care of everyone, because everyone else has no incentive to do anything for themselves. But I doubt these “Rich” people would be so stupid as to hang around that long…

Robert P

You prove only one thing, you have no idea what Liberals are about and in your ignorance of that fact you rave on about this fiction. Anyone who thinks there is not sickness etc. in any culture and under any type of government is delusional and liberal know better than that. Dream on my friend!

The proof is in the pudding. The evidence is written on the Liberal/Socialist walls of history throughout time as to what they believe in of what society “needs” to succeed. How many countries have succeeded in this philosohy? Can you tell me? (Hint: the number is less than 1) Why should everyone be “entitled” to have things that others work hard to attain? I believe in charity and helping your fellow man as much as the next person, but not by a government that extracts it from me by law, and at the risk of loosing my freedom.

If you can explain the meaning of Liberalism, then attempt to enlighten me. It amazes me how people can’t clearly see how pliticians have for years been disguising Socialism as Liberalism just to get people on board with programs they want, and which are meant to eventually enslave and bring power unto themselves and those closest to them. This process has been ongoing and continues, but many don’t see what is happening before their eyes because they are blinded by this devotion to a Leader which promises them the Utopia they dream about, but never will deliver.

I am not a Republican by the way.

Smilee,
The political definition of a liberal is anyone who wants to grow government, as that is the opposite intention of our forefathers and of the constitution they wrote that all politicians swear to uphold.
All you have to do is look at the congressional record, and you will see that the Democrats (very liberal) rarely miss a chance to vote for a tax or spend bill. That is why Democrats are known as the “Tax and Spend” party. And they are certainly living up to their nickname this year.
The Federal Government is limited by the Constitution, 10th Amendment which says “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” It says nowhere in the Constitution that the Federal Government has the power to force the nation to have national healthcare. If our own government can’t obey the law, how can they expect the citizens to be law-abiding?

DaveH

Well, Lindy has demonstrated frequently here she has an over abundance of intelligence and REAL intelligent people get that, those who try to convince us here that they have real intelligence actually convince us they are not intelligent enough to know what intelligence really is.

Oh yeah, that was an intelligent statement.

DaveH

You prove my point, Dave.

No, let’s cancel Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, College grants,etc,,etc..etc. they are all socialist programs. Each of you rt wing conservatives can tell your parents, grandparents or kids, sorry no more money, you have to fend for yourselves!!!! I am positive that each one of you that are spewing such hate, has someone in their familly or is someone who gets some kind of government assistance. We are supposed to be the “Greatest Country in the World”, which means we have compassion for others misfortunes…you know like “Christians are supposed to have for others” bull crap, us Republicans are nothing but hypocrites, Bush passed Medicare Advantage at a cost of 400 BILLION, with no funding, which is now part of our debt, and you people have the nerve to critize the Dem’s?? Get real and get honest, a debt of 1.3 trillion passed to this admin, from us fiscal conservatives was due to us spending like drunken sailors.

eyes,
More like eyeswideshut. You’re right, we will be able to tell our children, and grandchildren “Sorry no more money, you have to fend for yourselves” because you liberals are spending it all. I’m sure they will thank you for the debt you are leaving them!
Don’t give me that “compassion” crap. If you had compassion, you would be spending your own money, not someone else’s.

Dave, why is it so hard for you to admit that the Rep’s did not uphold our ideals? We are supposed to be conservative, in our actions, thoughts and deeds. We spent like crazy with no funding, didn’t balance the budget, didn’t even include the cost of the non-justified war in the deficit, failed to uphold our moral beliefs of not torturing enemy combatants, knowningly let wall street hijack the financial system and didn’t and still don’t even bother to remove from office, those who are guilty of moral turpitude.

Eyes,
First of all, I’m not Republican. Both parties have indeed been growing government. I’m not fond of that fact. But the Democrats have been growing it much faster. I’m not so if the slow growth, which goes unnoticed by the citizens, is less dangerous than the fast growth which may wake people up to reality. If you want to get a real eye-opener then read this online book. I think it’s a fascinating book. Some parts are very wordy, but you can open up a dictionary on your 2nd Explorer tab:
http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

Lindy,

Thank you. I was beginning to wonder if anyone on this site was intelligent, nonpartisan or unbiased enough to understand the the issue.

Nonpartisan? Unbiased? That is a laugh riot coming from you, fool.

Lindy says:Health care is more expenseive than it should be… health care as it exists today is a scam.

Health care in America isn’t really the problem. Health insurance IS the problem. The government control of it IS the problem. And unfortunately B.O.’s plan is NOT about healthcare, only about the government control of health insurance (how much you MUST pay for insurance that will cover what medical services some bureaucrat decides you are worthy to get). Poor Lindy is so engrossed in being a good Democrat, she can’t possibly see over her rose-colored glasses when policy is written by a Dem. She will happily be a sheeple led to her own slaughter.

Maggie… couple of things…

“Health care isn’t the problem health insurance IS the problem.” Okay, maybe you’re right, maybe I should have been more specific. Maybe what should be discussed is the “regulation” of the health iinsurance industry?

As for your other “statements”:
- I’m not really poor.
- I’m not a registered Democrat.
- I do wear glasses, but those glasses are untinted.
- I’m not a she, or a her or a woman.

A woman with a brain here, how nice!!!!!

Lindy says:
August 17, 2009 at 5:02 am

My comment was directed to Lindy, so do not want his misunderstood

A woman with a brain here, how nice!!!!!

LINDY’S comments

To bad the first amendment doesn’t ensure intelligent and informed speech. The Karl Rove tactic of debate by misinformation is unfair. Screeching about death panels and socialized medicine doesn’t change the fact the health care needs to be reformed. Too many people don’t have health insurance. Too many people who have health insurance are declined by their insurers after they get sick. Health care is more expenseive than it should be… health care as it exists today is a scam. The president doesn’t stifle critism, it just that after the past eight years, you aren’t used to a President that can debate anyone, openly, intelligently, rationally and respectfully. George Bush was all about making sure that he and his rich country club friends profited at all times at the expense of the American public. The current president actually gives a sh!t about the people that elected him
Reply

Lindy, Tirds who swim together stick together,& you got find ones,smilee,& the worlds biggest fool,Why don’t you read up on the clintons,You discusting thing,He was the one that force the banks to give money to people with no credit or bad credit,No job’s,he & the damn demon-craps,Who put us in the mess we are in now,And you evil traitors, Lied,forge names,& any other corrupt way to put this mulsum terroist,From kenya,a postion,He is in noway fit for,He was a damn lawyer who taught poor ignorant people,How to get something for nothing,They did not deserve,And now has turn his back on them,Satin is a real good talker,And has many faces,Hussein obama,pelosi,reid,kennedy,muthar,boxer,franks,And the rest of the trash parasites,{YOU WAIT,YOU WILL SEE} AS the most corrupt thug losers,In AMERICAN HISTORY! YOU BLIND MICE.

Dickie… WOW. You talk about ignorant people? Before you start calling people “turds” and “disgusting” you should actually know how to spell the words. You may also want to look into the proper use of capital letters and punctuation.

Due to your “grasp of the written word” I found it hard to follow. Who was “…a damn lawyer who taught poor ignorant people…”? Was it Clinton? Are you still upset that missed all the classes?

Lindy

You seem like a nice person & I am sure your concern for the down trodden is genuine. But don’t you see where all these policies that Obama has instigated is going to bankrupt our country? That means you & I. All the paper money that is being printed will make our money worthless. The cost of living will at the same time increase dramatically. Jobs, what jobs? His policies are going to cripple small business & small business accounts for 70% of all jobs. It is true, under a socialistic government, people lose incentives to strive to do better or even a halfway good job. In Russia there were long lines for bread, do you suppose it was because they could not raise their own food? Crops were not harvested as their was no reward in doing so. Yes, we must have a way to help the unfortunate, but we cannot help them if we cannot help ourselves. This country is the greatest country ever in history & it got that way by the American people & the constitution that was formed to grant us life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness. The problem is government has gotten too big & too expensive. There is now taxes on taxes every time we purchase something. Some things are taxed 3 times before it reaches the consumer & then we pay sales tax on those taxes. Under socialism, all are poor & no incentive to get an education or better oneself. Unless you want to be a part of the government. Not all Democrats are ultra liberal and not all republicans are ultra conservative. As for me I am an Independent as I cannot agree totally with either party.

Lindy, you are so right. Cheney entered office with net worth of 24 million, upon exiting it was 98.7 million. No one told me that the VP made an annual salary that could increase by that much… oh, just found out that Congressman can use insider information about stock market deals… it isn’t illegal. Think that’s why they want to stay in power????

Karl Rove has more intelligence and tact in his pinky than you do in your whole body, so seriously, shut up.

Lindsy reply,You apparently haven’t read the bill. The death panels are clearly there, Different wording of course. This is the most frightening bill I’ve ever seen for a number of reasons. I also don’t want to have to pay for someone elses sex-change operation or abortion which will be covered under this bill. I also don’t want to pay for healthcare for illegal aliens who haven’t paid a penny into the system. They have already proven that they don’t mind breaking our laws by being here to start with. They are one of the biggest reasons our country is in trouble economically to begin with. Rationed care will happen and that means only the younger, healthier people will be treated. If you are physically, or mentally disabled, or old the government no longer sees you as viable and will not spend the money on your care. These things are all in the bill. Eziekiel Emmanuel has stated that doctors are taking the hippocratic oath too seriously and that healthcare should only go to people who can make a contribution to society. He is the Presidents healthcare advisor for those who don’t know. I pray to God that this bill never sees the light of day.

Hey Patricia,

Either you haven’t read the bill, you’re brainwashed by Fox and cronies, you can’t read or you don’t comprehend. I suspect that the it’s the Fox brainwashing that has you so passionate abput your misinformation.

Were you aware that Sarah ‘give me free, it’s not my fault, what’s in it for me’ Palin was for the ‘evil death panels’ before she was against them?

For ‘Death Panels’ Before She Was Against Them? Palin Endorsed End Of Life Counseling As Governor!

In recent weeks, right-wing groups have been pushing the myth that health care reform will somehow kill seniors. One of the most high profile voices pushing this lie has been Sarah Palin, who claimed President Obama will institute bureaucratic “death panels.” Today, again on her Facebook page, she continued the attack. Though some Republicans have rebuffed this absurd, inaccurate notion — like Johnny Isakson (R-GA), who called such talk “nuts” — others, like Newt Gingrich, have piled on to agree with Palin.

However, on April 16th 2008, then Gov. Sarah Palin endorsed some of the same end of life counseling she now decries as a form of euthanasia. In a proclamation announcing “Healthcare Decisions Day,” Palin urged public facilities to provide better information about advance directives, and made it clear that it is critical for seniors to be informed of such options:

WHEREAS, one of the principal goals of Healthcare Decisions Day is to encourage hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, continuing care retirement communities, and hospices to participate in a statewide effort to provide clear and consistent information to the public about advance directives, as well as to encourage medical professionals and lawyers to volunteer their time and efforts to improve public knowledge and increase the number of Alaska�s citizens with advance directives.

WHEREAS, the Foundation for End of Life Care in Juneau, Alaska, and other organizations throughout the United States have endorsed this event and are committed to educating the public about the importance of discussing healthcare choices and executing advance directives.
End of Life Care
http://juneau-end-of-life-care.org/
http://thinkprogress.org

Zeke Emanuel on Sarah Palin’s Accusation of ‘Death Panels’: ‘It’s An Absolute Outrage!

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the health-policy adviser at the White House’s Office of Management and Budget — who has been caricatured by conservatives as a “Dr. Death” seeking to pull the I.V.s out of your grandparents’ arms in the name of cost containment — is not happy.
Asked by ABC News in an interview about the thoroughly discredited claim by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to paint his philosophical writings as evidence — along with a provision providing optional end of life counseling in the House Democrats’ health care reform bill — that President Obama wants to set up “death panels” to deny medical treatments to seniors and the disabled, including her son Trig, Emanuel, brother of White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, does not hold back.

“It’s an absolute outrage that you would take first of all a provision written in the bill,” Emanuel says, a provision allowing for “doctors to talk to patients about end of life care, and turn it into the suggestion that we’re going to have euthanasia boards — that’s a complete misreading of what’s there. It’s just trying to scare people.”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/zeke-emanuel-on-sarah-palins-accusation-of-death-panels-its-an-absolute-outrage.html

Hey, we can always blame researching and telling the truth on the evil liberal media, right?

What section of the bill talks about death panels?

Perhaps it’s in the section on Republican lies and fear mongering!

PG 430 Lines 11-15 – The Gov’t will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.
Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The Gov’t will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
PG 427 Lines 15-24 – Gov’t=2 0mandates program for orders for end of life. The Gov’t has a say in how your life ends.
Pg 429 Lines 1-9 – An “Advance Care Planning Consultation” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 – Gov’t provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

Lindy: I know I’m wasting my time, but here goes. What do you think your fearless leader (b o) just pulled in Montana? If you think that staged circus was a fair representation (as opposed to an ‘invitation only’ sideshow), please tell me what you’re smoking. Is it that you don’t get it, or you don’t want to get it?
People like you still don’t understand why conservatives have so little use for ultralibs and their conditional standards. B O wouldn’t have gone to Montana unless he was surrounded by ‘friendlies.’ Just once, I’d like to see him have the GUTS to go to a REAL town hall meeting. He can’t stand criticism, and his 20 gallon ego will be his undoing. You sure know how to pick ‘leaders.’ Get a life. Get real. WAKE UP!

Hey SC… if you want to chat you’re never wasting your time with me. But just to clarify things before we really get into the issue, Barrack Obama is not MY leader, he’s the POTUS. My point was these
townhall clusterf@cks are all sideshows… but unlike George Bush’s love-ins at least Obama had to face a couple of unfriendly questions in Montana. Bush had these hand-picked posers lobbing puff-ball questions that any six year-old that read the daily talking points could have answered. Bottom line, these townhall meetings don’t change opinions, it’s preaching to the choir and if you don’t like the song you just aren’t going to listen.

People like me? You obviously have no idea clue about my poltical beliefs. So I’ll fill you in a bit… I have no use for ultra liberals either, they’re conditional standards are as moronic as those spouted by the ultra conservatives. You see, I’m against all forms of fundamentalism and simple mindedness.

Just once I’d like to see an informed public, ask unscripted questions, to a politician that wants to shake-up the status quo. At least Obama wants to shake things up… it’s up to the American public to come up with a solution… an informed solution, because the status quo just isn’t working for most Americans anymore. What do you want?

Well, you sign your name as “Lindy,” but you sound like “Wrong-way Corrigan to me.(Look it up if you don’t know what I mean) What’s with the Karl Rove thing? He’s history. Deal with what Rahm Emanuel, his brother the doctor who wants to end your life, Van Jones, convicted felon and avowed Communist, and the rest of those Czars accountable to no Congress oversight,only to Obama, are getting away with.
How do you have the guts to come on here with the “Karl Rove” thing?
Not one of those fellows and ladies who served the Bush Adm’n were like the dangerous people who’re incidentally, Obama’s personal friends. “I can tell who you are by your friends.”

Montana, where men are men, and sheep are nervous.

If Old Ted Kennedy was in Obama’s Health care Plan, He would be dead. They would have pulled the plug a L O N G time ago…..Wake Up

Well in that aspect, you make it sound kind of appealing to have it. Hmmm, first good point Ive read towards it.

Come on Lindy, are you serious? He doesnt even have the respect of his own party, or they wouldnt be secretly planning on how to dump him allready. And they are. Watch and see.

I couldn’t look myself in the mirror if I didn’t point out that the guy who’s calling Bush a “Moran” has misspelled the word, “Moron.” It makes me wonder if, when you refer to Bush as an “ignorant F*ck,” you were trying NOT to swear or if you just don’t know how to spell it.

Thanks for the correction. Mine error is a typo (I’ve made several others and must do better at proofreading). Bush is a Moran!

Opps, just did it again. My error is a typo and Bush is still a MORAN!

Hey Footpatrol: Take ten and get off your feet. The blood feeding your brain has been affected by gravity.

There sure are a lot of really angry and stupid people in the world, and I know where they hide. Go in your bathroom Footpatrol, one of them is hiding above the sink in your bathroom.

You Got this Thing about Bush Blaming so What You’re saying is it all these bad things happened on his Watch You need to go back further then 8yrs pal and Bush was on coke i think You got the wrong watchman on that one I think You ment Bubba while he was govener of Ark the demonkrauts do no wrong EVER

Thats all they got is pointing the finger at Bush, because they bring nothing viable to the table. You know, if were going back in time, back to Bubba in Arkansas. Remember the Mena Arkansas drug thing? How come when it started getting tracked back to the governors office, everyone, and I mean everyone – the cops, the witnesses, the gang members, the lawyers, all the players mysteriously ended up dead, even some with bullet holes in the back of their heads, ruled suicides. Yep, thats their Bubba in action. Ask Vince Foster and Ron Brown. Ooops, shoot, I forgot he took them out too.

Ridge: I Was Pressured To Raise Terror Alert To Help Bush Win
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/tom-ridge-i-was-pressured_n_264127.html
“Ridge was never invited to sit in on National Security Council meetings; was “blindsided” by the FBI in morning Oval Office meetings because the agency withheld critical information from him; found his urgings to block Michael Brown from being named head of the emergency agency blamed for the Hurricane Katrina disaster ignored; and was pushed to raise the security alert on the eve of President Bush’s re-election, something he saw as politically motivated and worth resigning over.”

“What Tom Ridge disclosed confirms our worst suspicions,” said Sen. Lautenberg (D-N.J.), who criticized the color-coded system back in 2003. “Just like they did in Iraq, the Bush Administration manipulated intelligence to cause fear in the public to further its political goals.”
The Bush administration was forced to admit in the days after the 2004 alert that it was based on intelligence three or four years old. Officials then claimed there was a previously unmentioned “separate stream of intelligence” that justified the warning — but offered little tangible information to support their new story..

The Federal Government Runs

The Post Office—Which is 8 billion in the ‘Red” so they just keep increasing postage and passing it on to the tax payers. Private firms would make a profit (like Obama said about UPS & Fed X)

Social Security—Which the Federal Government raids every year and has it going broke and the hard working tax payers who paid into this all of their lives will not receive it thanx to the greedy Politicians (who keep their pay and benefits for life) SHAMEFUL….

Medical Benefits—-to the Illegal Immigrants who pay no taxes and are draining the resources that the hard working tax payers pay for. Why work..,,,when you get it for free….

Tax payers are fed up with the self serving politicians and their promises.
Term Limits should be put on all Political Offices to stop the Greed…Waste…Self serving…Power hungry politicians who would sell their souls for a vote….

And you want to run Health Care……Give us a break & TERM LIMITS on all of Congress who got us in this mess .

I got the word that USPS contracts to the private carriers for overnight delivery stuff. Again, your government in action! I suppose we need to subsidize the fees Fedex and UPS charge USPS. There’s your regular price increases! Whenever I go to the PO, there’s always a long line,6 clerk stations, but two weary clerks working. Now they’re pulling mailboxes in my area in the USPS latest economy drive. No more every few blocks in the cities.

First off, if your going to like, you know, lambast someone about not maybe being the sharpest pencil in the box, you should probably learn how to spell. For two, George W. Bush will go down in history as the second greatest president in history behind Ronald Reagan, for freeing millions of people, and bring peace to Iraq. Its you dopes on the left that are more interested in making this fail, so you can point fingers at Bush, that is your interest in making the United States of America a great country. You sacrifice our country and all it stands for, to attack the other political party. To me, that is criminal, and you sir, are a big part of the problem, and all those who think like you.

Bush will be at the bottom of the heap and Reagan way down the list as well when the last chapters get written forty or fifty years from now and by then it will be clear just now much damage they did to this country.

Yes, he’s definitely skilled. When the healthcare bill first was introduced, Obama said it would save the US money. Now, in that aforementioned meeting in Montana, he admitted that it is going to cost a lot of money. And this is the guy we’re supposed to trust to take care of us? Give me a break.
We have a doctor shortage (which I maintain is a result of government meddling). If that figure of 47 million uninsured is correct (I doubt it), that is 15% of the US population. So 15% more patients will be added to the already over-used doctors’ workload. That’s going to solve the health care problems?
I won’t argue with you if you say insurers are a problem. But it’s not because they are taking advantage, it’s just the nature of paying a middleman to come between you and your doctor. Who pays that middleman? You as a policy holder or your company pay for it of course. For routine medical treatment (as opposed to major medical) you are just paying extra for that middleman on a regular basis. And on top of that, they meddle with your medical treatment. If government gets involved you can count on an increase in both the cost and the meddling.
Again, I can’t say often enough, that the only real winners in bigger government will be the government employees (that includes lawyers and courts). The politicians are using you as a pawn in their power games. By the way, you won’t catch me defending Bush as he too grew the government larger, but Obama is trying to make Bush’s government growth look absolutely wimpy.

If the lawyers and courts are the big winners, then third place is not too bad with the insurance companies making 440 billion clear profit. One problem they make is canceling people who have paid.

Don,
I solved that problem 30 years ago. I don’t buy their product.
Only catastrophic insurance (major medical) makes any sense at all. And that is only because most people (if they suffer misfortune) can’t come up with that kind of money. I can’t either, but I will take the hit if nature calls. And don’t rank me with the excuse that society will have to take care of me, as I didn’t ask for that, and I can’t help it if other crybabies through government have created that condition to give me gift that I didn’t ask for.
In the routine health care cases it would be much cheaper in the long run to cut out the middleman (insurance companies) which will be the government if the health care bill gets passed.

Well, at least he learned how to silence the hecklers when he was shooting dice in the alley back in Chicago.

I love how the liberals all try and make out like Obama is the silver-tongued orator. Every time that man opens his mouth without a teleprompter to tell him what he thinks, a dozen people spend the next 7 days going on television to say, “What he meant to say was…” The guy hasn’t a clue.

I guess you didn’t hear him Saturday. No teleprompter when doing Q&A. Why do people keep criticizing Obama about teleprompter? Is it because Bush always used one, and the Dems criticized him? Now is it your turn to give it back? Or people just like to repeat Hannity?

Because without someone to tell him what to do or what to say, he brings nothing viable to the table. Bottom line. He has proved it over and over. 4 and out. Thats it, his goose is cooked in less than a year, because he has gotten caught in lies allready, and is still shooting by the back of his pants. No plan, no action, nothing. 4 and out.

The Kenyan who won’t provide his real Birth certificate is not my President until he can prove he is qualified to be in office. He has never released a certified Birth certificate.

Put the Meth pipe down! Our president will release his long form birth certificate when Sarah ‘give me free’ Palin releases a high school diploma certifying that she meets minimum 12th grade equivalency standards or passes a remedial English test. You betcha!

Smilee: Lest you forget, one high school boy stood up and questioned Obama in CO. The kid put BHO in short pants, the answer wasn’t available for rehearsal or on teleprompter. All Obama could do was his “Eh,”"Uh,” and “Uhm.” But his voice sounds good as he stammers! Is that what you clowns voted for? How shallow!

Only if the guys writing the stuff on his telestrator are quick enough. If he had all the intelligence so many on the left perpetrate he has, he would have left the democratic party a long time ago, and he would be smart enough to realize that they will dump him, and they will dump him, right under the bus, to save their face, as it is all blowing up right in their faces. Im not going to sit here and point the finger at him when things his admin is doing fails and blows up, because one guy doesnt do it all. Its a party thing, and he is the figure head. You all on the left still sit there pointing at Bush and saying “look what he did”, but it takes the village, not one guy, and Im glad Im smart enough to know that. I dont blame Barack, I blame his party. I sat back quietly, and gave him a chance, but all that his party has acted on so far are all wrong, and are making messes all over. You cannot tell me it was smart to give GM and Chrysler billions, no way. You cannot tell me national health care is good for us. Sure, Id like to have it all free, but its not going to be that way. After it happens, if it happens, when we all see how it is, brother its going to be too late to do anything about it, and I really dont want to get stuck in that boat. When he sent more troops to Afghanistan, hey, I was all for that move, 100 percent with him. But when Bush did it, boy oh boy, it was that war monger Bush and the illegal war for oil. Sorry, I got a problem with that mentality of reporting by our press. But when Barack and his boys make a move like this, and I agree with it, buddy Ill support him 100 percent on it, unlike the left and the leftist press who would never give Bush or the repubs kudo’s for anything they did. Never. Its not right.

Bob: About AARP, I’m disappointed in that organization. It’s no wonder that 60,000 reported, thus far, have canceled their memberships with AARP.

That’s just a drop in the bucket when you look at the total members which is in the millions so not the big deal you want to make it

Fool,
Straight from the http://www.opencongress.org:

SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
31
‘(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of–
‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

I just looked through the bill. There is no section SEC. 59B. The bill starts at SEC 100. Are you sure this section really exists?

Pages 167, 168 of the PDF – of course you need to be a lawyer to understand any of this but there it is….
Title IV Amendments to Internal Revenue Code of 1986
Subtitle A-Shared Responsibility
Part 1-Individual Responsibility
SEC.401. Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage
(a) In General.-subchapter A of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new part:
‘‘PART VIII—HEALTH CARE RELATED TAXES
SUBPART A. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage
Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

Yes Bob,
I’m sure. The section in my comment was cut and pasted from the bill as listed on the mentioned website. I know it is hard to find it in 1000+ pages.

Fool,
I have been self-insured my entire life (60 now). I have also been ill since 26 (flu-like symptoms about 2-3 times a week). But, I worked and paid taxes anyway (including medicare taxes). I and anyone else in my family have never enslaved anyone, yet you want to enslave me (yes it is enslavement to make me pay money for something I don’t believe in) and take away my choices. I have not ever and will never force someone else to carry me. You can placate your conscience all you want with the fabrication that you are more intelligent than others, but the truth is that you are behaving no better than the white southern slaveowners who enslaved the blacks.

Thank you Dave. I am 51 and have always had to pay for my insurance premiums through work, and Ive never ever wanted for any medical care. Sure, it could be and even should be cheaper, but it is still the best in the world, and all these people that want to use political agenda to fight me on it, cannot answer why those in free health care nations come here to have medical procedures, and willingly pay for it, rather than wait in line for the free care in their country. Pretty darn easy to figure that out, and if someone doesnt agree that we have the best, then they have a political ax to grind. I dont care if Abe Lincoln or George W. Bush wanted nationalized health care, I dont, because it isnt good. Hypochondriacs around the world are allready lining up around the block, and those who really need attention arent going to get it in time. Fact. And I allready pay for enough government handouts, without paying for their medical too.