Gay Marriage Divides GOP
June 3, 2009 by Personal Liberty News Desk
A major personality in the Republican Party has once again broken ranks on the issue of same-sex marriage stirring more conflict within the already divided GOP.
Former Vice President Dick Cheney said earlier this week he supports gays’ rights to marry and that states, not the federal government, should make the decision on whether to allow it.
"Freedom means freedom for everyone," Cheney said, adding, "I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish."
His views drew predictable criticism from the leadership of the Republican Party, with RNC chairman Michael Steele reiterating his opposition to same-sex marriage.
Stressing that Cheney brings a personal perspective to the debate, Steele said in his view marriage is between a man and a woman, which is "very much in line with what [President Obama] has said."
The GOP position has also been that marriage should be regulated at the federal level, although currently the issue of homosexual marriages is being decided on a state-by-state basis.
Currently, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Iowa allow same-sex marriages, and three more states have passed appropriate legislation which will come into effect later this year. 
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Actually, it’s Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, Maine, and New Hampshire.
Unless you mean “where they are currently performed” as opposed to “legalized”.
you kind of alien weird freaky butt sniffing “come”hey mom,what do i do with this and more importantly,Dad where do i put it,as for you girls i think that,that is what you are,just tell me one thing.Where the heck do you think that you had come from?Well let me tell you.I have learned not only from learning in school,but as well as my self observation that you did not show up here by daddy sticking a plastic object into your mommy’s uterus.You were born of a farm animal i think i may be giving you way to much credit.What i am saying is that i would not want you as a farm animal.People let yourself are manipulator’s self center self serving as well as self gratified.You take take,rape,rape,molest children,and are disease ridden and have brought A.I.D.S. to the world so go to {h…….}
You actually went to school?
Read what you wrote and see how proud your teachers are about now.
I believe homo’s should have to register just like sex offenders so that we know who’s gay in our neighborhoods in order to protect our children. If we all become gay we’ll extinct the human race you idiots. Grow up and get with the opposite sex…eventually you’ll have too. SMH
Forgive me on what I am going to say.I am a good man.I would not hurt anyone unless provocked.I am a triand soldier is why to protect what is right.
To I say this too it is toward.Its ok to love one another in different ways but not this.First gay means “happy or bright” look it up.Action on how you feel or type of day.We all can relate to this.Good.Now queer means “strange;eccentric person;slightly ill;having mental quirks;slang for homosexual;
and get this to spoil the smooth operation or success of;Wait for it and means counterfiet money how about it Congress stand up and bow.So you want to be married like the rest of us honest and spiritual Men and Women that beleive in marriage as a union to be come one.YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO HAVE THIS UNITY.Live together if you must.Marriage hell no.I do not care if you like it.People like you are screwing up our world because you do not like the rules so we are going to screw up your lives.So we get tired and give in.That is how week we and our government has become.In the day you would of been exterminated.But that is not politically correct.F your feelings.Man rules of today need to be siplified and in stone and Our Constitution rules are to be put back into place PERIOD.I am a man that beleives in working hard;being fair;honest;respecting to all other men and thier belongings for I am no better than he.A man that can work along side another,proud to raise his family and dicipline his chidren when it needs to be.Now we must dicipline our Government.You want change America.Really? do you??Then stop your BS and start reading about these people and vote for whom is going to take care of the future of our nation and to give our future generations a chance to have thier freedom to do what they enjoy.Or Dont and suffer for the rest of your miserable lives.Words are words ACTIONS ARE GOLD.People today are getting to much freedom and sucking the resources out of the rest of us.Welfare is suposed to be for the poeple whom are in poverty and unemployment.Not to have kids and let everyone else pay for it or you just to dam sorry to get off your butt or back and work.Be a street worker if like having kids at least you will be getting paid for it and leave the aid to people that have been honest and need help to get back on thier feet.Your the incumbents like our government.I fought for your freedom and by the Grace of GOD I will fight next to him to keep mine.Time for a change to take back what Our for fathers and all soldiers have fought for decades.VOTE No to queer marriage.It is an insult to a Man and Woman that believes in thier unity.Animals understand this.Look at wolves as close as to humans.They kill because it is not exceptiable.Thats good enough for me.If you people do not like it.People like me do not care of your feelings on this go away or straighten you strange ways and find a male or female.If you can not handle the oppisite sex get help.You have a problem.I am married we fight and laugh and are sad at times.But I like that it makes me a man and human.Love is the strongest power.But it can be used against you as well which is evil works.I know my X-wife is.She tried to wear the pants.She got fooled.Vote in November.GOD BLESS.
Thank you! I needed to laugh, and this comment did it! Being gay is a choice, its also knowing the perverted side of this choice, that causes infections,disease,etc.. yes I also believe gays should register that they are gay.where they live too! too much sex on the televison makes them think sex is available everywhere, and that everyone that is not GAY, wants them and they just don’t know it. Thats what a former gay friend say, YUCK! and to hell with that!
Let me help you with this idea: As children , many don’t remember being molested or raped, while a baby, or toddler, but when they grow up, these things come up ,memories make up these ideas for them, thus begins the confusion. who will admit to doing this to our children ? Priest, parents, family members….Society….helping them unlock what is buried intheir memories may help them identify why they think they ar GAY….
Actually, monkey brought aids. Not gay people. And just because some one is gay or bi, doesn’t mean they want to rape your children. Grow up. Honestly.
Now it’s the monkeys to blame, right! There’s news for you, no, no monkeys, perverts who had sex with them and then with other perverts. There’s no other way!
Please stop, your overwhelming argument is crushing me.NOT!
By the by, the green monkey somewhere in Africa is used as food, cut your finger, get the virus, have sex of any kind, often enough, and HIV ( I think it is AIDS somewhere along the line) is spread. Hepatitis C will kill you a lot quicker and you get it most often from having anal sex. Actions have consequences. Folks have flogged this HIV horse long enough (HIV and/or AIDS) even has or had civil rights.
People may have the right to do as they please, I nor anyone else has to justify it. I don’t have to justify a man and woman getting married, because it is accepted. We would not be here with out it!
To act responsibly is a large part of freedom. Indulging in any practice that does harm to anyone is irresponsible. Indulging in an perverted lifestyle ie,,queers(strange activity)is definitely harmful to the well being of every American. God completelt destroyed two cities because of men and women lusting after one another. Have you noticed the state of affairs in this country lately? We are a Christian Nation, One Nation Under God. Even though we are a Christian Nation, we do not percecute others’ beliefs. Others’ beliefs whatever they may be are not perverted as in lusting man 4 man or woman 4 woman. Your blow hole was created for the release of toxins from your body, that’s it, period. An for anyone to stick their thing in someones’ poo hole is dangerously unhealthy not to mention just wrong. The term as it was coined back in the day,”if it feels good it must be right”, or “if it feels good, do it”, is a lie straight from Hell. Ever wonder why the politicians never talk about queers and how wrong and disgusting it is as a way of life? I do. We should insist that all of them run on a platform of homesexuality is not American!!! And what I have read here today tells me that whomever does will win the 2012 Election. Personally I find your perverted lifestyle repugnant. Thank you, RC
That maybe the most disjointed, awful, paragraph I have ever seen written. No one cares what you say you dumb redneck
A quote from a book written BC: ” 2. For as their laws and their governments were established by the voice of the people, and they who chose evil were more numerous than they who chose good, therefore they were ripening for destruction, for the laws had become corrupted. 3. Yea, and this was not all; they were a stiffnecked people, insomuch that they could not be governed by the law nor justice, save it were to there destruction.”
This is us today . . . we will not be governed except by laws that are to our destruction . . . for example: Abortion, same sex marriage, speech (hate) and gun (safety) control and many other such actions which take our freedom. FREEDOM is a gift from God that allows for our progression, but FREEDOM must be exercised within certain boundaries (laws, commandments). Many, if not most, people desire to set their own boundaries to include their disobedience (sins), rather than conform to the law and order than brings growth and peace. We are choosing to be governed by laws that will act to our destruction.
Darlene – You remind me of the Old Yeller movie. You were probably a lovable decent human being at one point, but there’s a lot of foam coming out of your mouth now. Maybe we need a new category of mercy killing called “Christianicide” to help put you out of your misery and stop infecting others with rabid hateful ideas.
You got most of the letter’s in this name right..because you are a rodent.You and your ilk are sodom and gomarrah hell bound, and i say good riddance.You’re not the solution you’re the problem, take your sodomite mentality & lifestyle back to dailykos et al..
Don’t you just love the so-call tolerance of the fringe far left, except when you don’t totally agree with their brainwashed indoctrinated propaganda, then it’s everyone else that’s intolerant.
You and your ilk’s HYPOCRISY know no bounds!!
Yes, yes, Michael
Michael I am looking for a single white male here with the EXACT same mindset as I have. Are you between the ages of 38-44 with a full head of hair. I hate homos. It says FOUR times in the Bible how bad faggotdom is: twice in the Old and twice in the New.
See Robin is the hateful one. She wants to kill anyone who doesnt agree with her. These people are just so the hypocrites. Everything they say about us they are. All I saw was us not agreeing with them and why. As soon as they get told their wrong they go into a hateful foaming at the mouth rage. Please type more so you can prove our point.
YOU GO, WE SHOULD GET A “CHRISTIAN HATE CRIME” law on the books and let them see how it feels. We are getting tired of of those cry babies. We should write to ACLJ and see how to do just that. The Muslims are trying to get a “Islam or Muslim hate crime law on the books. What do you guys think?
Yes, they are the real haters and intolerant, the proverbial wolves in lamb skin. It’s time America wakws up and see them for what they are. No victims.
You are like a lot of people. Don’t like the truth – just what you like to think to make you feel good about yourself.
Hello, Rodin. Well, I hate to tell you this, but Darlene is right! Here I’m not only a Christian, but also a father of 4 children (3 boys and 1 girl). They know that marriage is between a man and a woman. This is not just because it says so in the Bible, but because that lifestyle is immoral and unethical. You think that America was set up on the “do anything you want to” style of freedom. Well, I also have a masters degree in history and I’m telling you that you are wrong and need to go back to school. Why? It seems that you didn’t read your history books about our Constitution and our Christian aspect of freedom. All 45 of our founding fathers were Conservative Christians and that is how our Constitution was written. The military doesn’t even accept gays into the ranks because of the chance of spreading AIDS and breaking down morale in the ranks. Even Clinton, lo and behold, passed the “Protection of Marriage Act”. I suggest that you stop attacking others for their higher, more moral beliefs and take a good look at you wretched self. It’s people like you that are the problem, not people who believe in God.
Brady “Samurai” Bowe
U. S. Army retired
AMEN BROTHER !!!!!!! Well spoken. I still think we should get a “Christian Hate Crimes” law on the books that we may be protected from these types of people. I’m so sick of being put down because I’m a Christian. I am proud to be accepted by our Father. What do they have to be proud of? They are shameful sinful and lost if they don’t change their ways. I love them but not their actions and hateful evil spirited attitudes.
Wow! A Masters Degree in History? From what backwater college that teaches that the Founding Fathers were Conservative Christians did you get that degree from? Many of the Founding Fathers were agnostics or Diests; many were also Freemasons and Slave Owners (how very Chrisitan of them!). Do you even see the name Jesus in any important writings by Jefferson, Adams (Sam or John), Washington, Hamilton or Franklin? Seems to me they bent over backwards to keep God out of American politics. You NeoCon Christians must not have a lot of faith in yourself, your religion, your marraige, your society or your country to be threatened by the idea of same sex marraige. I have been a happily married atheist for 15 years, and my 3 sons know that Jesus taught to love everyone, hate no one, and that in America, all people are equal and entitled to equal rights under the law. Maybe you should re-read the Constitution and the Bible (focus on the New Testament), and while you are at it, call your alma mater and try to get a refund. It doesn’t sound like you got your money’s worth.
Brady,
I was just wondering if you would give me a reputable source that could back up your claim about the founding fathers’ religious views.
I’m a Veteran and I’ll tell you what I observed: I had 4 outstanding gay guys on the same floor of my dorm as me. I have no idea how many others were in the building- probably a lot more. They were the top of everything they did. They weren’t ignorant hillbillies like most of the other enlisted. The gays rose to the top. Give me a break about spreading AIDS.
How about you focus on the 98% of pedophiles who are HETEROSEXUAL men? How about you focus on the 60% divorce rate in this country and how about you focus on your OWN family. I’m sure a look in your backyard will dig up all kinds of stuff Sergeant.
Get over the gay issue. They deserve the same freedoms as everyone else.
Amen keep up the good work
God bless you, Brady! The liberals have messed things up enough in this country. Especially our schools! They will all have their time in God’s court! No corrupt judges and lawyers there!
Brady,
First, I noticed by your moniker that you are a retired veteran so thank you for your service: may God bless you and your family. I could not agree with your statements more. So many people today want to either deny our history, don’t know our history, or think that we are far “progressed” with our ‘modern’ thinking and way back when they were just a bunch of bigoted, racist, prudes. What people fail to realize today are the following facts: America would have never become a Nation without the direct intervention and hand of God leading; we became the greatest nation on earth because of the Christianity and belief in God of our founding fathers that led them to create the greatest man-made document in this world’s history – our Constitution (Declaration of Independence a close second); this nation has been the greatest test of mankind since the creation of the Jewish people/nation in biblical times. Why were the Jewish people chosen by God? Why were they special? What made them special? Were they better then everyone else back then? No, they were not necessarily better. However, what made them special was the fact that they were chosen by God and He had a definite purpose for them as a people – to show His love, mercy, forgiveness, Holiness, and greatness to other people/nations. To those who are given much, much is required. The USA for a long time now, probably since the end of WWII, has given more money, food, assistance, and manpower, than any other nation on earth, before or since. We have been blessed as a nation and people and we have rightly given beyond our borders to others in need. People can deny God all they want but as we reject Him and His laws as a nation and people then His blessings will be withdrawn from this nation. We can see that this has been happening.
What can we do as individuals to halt this degradation? Love each other. Stand up for those who can’t. Pray for one another. Like you Brady and your wife – be good parents to our children; teach them right from wrong, be responsible, be accountable…we need to find a Ronald Reagan in our ranks again. I don’t care if people may have disagreed with some of his policies but what I can tell you is that he made everyone proud that we were Americans! He commanded respect in the world and foreign leaders thought highly of him. In fact 2 of the greatest leaders in modern history, in my opinion, were Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. God bless America…now we have a lot of work to do.
George Washington, who stopped attending church, referred Deistically to Providence over 1700 times, to Christ 1 time, and not in any way to endorse his divinity.
“More moral” Do you even hear yourself? All of the founding fathers were conservative Christians because that’s the only kind there were at the time. Some of them may not have thought that way but they had to say they did to fit in. Over the time all people, including Americans, eveolved as they became more educated. Back then one of the only ways to get educated was at a religious school and you were taught to be religious, much like modern day Madrasas to Muslims in the Middle East. To assume that this country was meant to be inhabited and governed by only conservative fundamentalist Christians is to make the same mistake that theocracies in other countries with low literacy rates make. Some sects of Chrisianity will even ordain gay ministers now. Our founding fatheys may have been Christian but if they wanted this country to be run as a Christian theocracy they wouldn’t have written the Constitution which guarantees equality regardless of religion. They just would have used the Bible. If you choose to live your life under the letter of the Bible then you have the right to do that but when you say everyone has to then you’re being downright UnAmerican. If someone is gay it doesn’t affect your life one bit. Why do you even care? What if your son was gay? Would you disown him? How is that acceptable? A marriage is a legal arrangement not a religious one so it doesn’t matter what God says in the Bible. The real fair legal thing to do is to make every “marriage” a civil union and let each person’s own place of worship decide if they should be married there.
Rodin & Vincent must be birds of a feather. If I were a betting man I would say they are atheists and hate the very idea of God or any form of normalcy judging by the way they talk. Vincent is correct that some of the founding fathers were deists but that does not take away that most believed in common decency and marriage between one man and one woman. At least they also believed in God! People like Rodin & Vincent spend a lot of time and energy trying very hard to discredit Christianity in anyway they can. I think they lay awake at night gnashing their teeth trying to think of some evil scheme against all normal people people who love this country, God, mom and apple pie. They really do hate and it shows big time. They are truly UN-American because America was not founded on Godless atheism, Sodomy, and other crimes against God and nature. This country was founded upon Godly principles, family, moral values, etc. Where did all of these negative people come from in these later days? If they have their way they will destroy the United States much like countries in past history have been destroyed. These people are puppets of their master satan and don’t even know it!!!
I am a veteran too Brenda! When I was in the service back in the 60’s it was illegal to be a queer. They would be kicked out of the service if found out! Sorry queer is the slang word we used and I think it is still fitting today. I am for freedom for all people no matter what race or religion but when these homosexuals try to force their way upon the normal people in our great country then it is time for normal people to stand up to protect our country and our sacred God ordained marriage between one man and one woman before it is too late. Brenda also made the typical and false comment that 98% of pedophiles are Heterosexual men! Do I detect some slight bias there? Tell us Brenda do you hate men and maybe you are a lesbian? Just wondering? The Truth be known, most homosexuals are pedophiles and most were molested by same sex individuals when they were children. Check out this web site and tell me homosexuals do not prefer children. http://www.nambla.org/ this is the NAMBLA webs site and it is an official homosexual web site that loves children and they are not ashamed of it. Back to Brenda’s false statement about heterosexual men. Well Brenda do the math. It would stand to reason that by sheer numbers yes there would be more pedophiles that are heterosexuals since about 98% of the whole human race is heterosexual….do the math. Now let’s look at it this way. Let’s look at the percentage of groups such as homosexuals. There are far higher percentages of the whole group of homosexuals that are pedophiles….see the difference? It seems these left wing people play games with statistics and numbers, but are not really telling the whole truth. Another thing the homosexual lifestyle is destructive in many ways. The very anatomy of their sex is very unhealthy, not only physically but mentally as well. Homosexuals are committing crimes against God, themselves, nature and the end result is death. It is really a shame.
Brady, I am sorry you are raising your children with such bigotry. You do know that most civilized nations have no limitations on gays serving in the military, don’t you? And I think we have lost out on the service of many fine men and women by our antiquated and bigoted views. We all deserve basic civil rights, and that does include gay citizens. I am a straight married woman with 4 children and I have raised my children to be kind and accepting of differences and not close minded. And if one of them turn out to be gay, I will gladly be at the wedding.
I can give a source that PROVES it. A book that has been out of publication since 1863 and is LOATHED by the American Civil Liberties Union. It can be found on a web site called Patriot Depot. It is by Benjamin F Morris and it is entitled: THE CHRISTIAN LIFE AND CHARACTER OF THE CIVIL INSTITUTIONS OF THE UNITED STATES.
Gays may deserve agency to condemn themselves to hell, but they do not have the right to force their lifestyles on those who are heterosexual or believers of God. They do not have the right to brain wash children in our schools that same-sex is a natural occurrence. To my knowledge baboons and other animal are not attracted to the same-sex (or animals would become extinct). So gay’s morals seem to be even lower than that of all animals. You know what they say about educated gay’s, “They have knowledge, but not wisdom”.
On this subject, you hit the nails dead-on target. Too bad that those nails weren’t on a wooden coffin that we could use to bury (or better yet to cremate) the hypocrisy of liberalism.
While I was growing up, the lines between right & wrong, normal & abnormal and natural & perverted weren’t as blurred as they are today.
The modern educational system and the media.
By the way, according to one survey, over 80% those in the American media don’t participate in regular worship in church, synogogue, temple or mosque.
Back in 1977 (which was the year that I began my 20 years and two days of active duty in the Navy), if you told me that politicians would be pandering to the shrill demands of a homosexual minority, I would’ve told you that you were crazy. Now we are being treated like we are the ones who are out of touch with reality.
As for those who are trying to impose new pseudo-values, such as the “constitutional right” to murder the unborn children and legalize so-called “marriage” between same-sex couples, I’m sure that those who wrote the constitution weren’t thinking about ways to open the doors to the demands of baby-killers and perverts.
I will vote for whom i please. If this canidate is for gay marriage. I will not vote for him or her. It appears to be a life style one chooses, not one that is inherited. I still believe marriage is meant to be one man and one woman. To say other wise is just trying to justify the way homosexuals are living. Wheather one believes in the words in the Bible or not i take God at his word when it says every knee will bend , every head will bow and confess God is who he says he is.The most horrible words to ever be heard will be ” Depart from me , i know you not”
Good Answer! rodin
Mr. Brady Bowe
You are a hater just like the rest of the writers on this website. You can’t stand that there are other human beings that think differently but are entitled to the same rights and freedoms that you supposedly fought for. Retired military … bah…
Did you know that military officers are three times more likely to sexually abuse their children? Frankly I don’t know if it’s true either, but if you’re going to throw around stupid statements like gays would increase aids in the military, then you deserve anything you get. You’re an idiot…. and a Masters degree in history… what’d you do? take seminars from Tammy Faye and Jim Baker?
There is NO basis of freedom in Christian history and theology. Religion teaches exactly the opposite and I defy you to find a single incidence in the the last 2000 years where a religious state was set up with principles of freedom. EVERYTIME religion has become involved, people have been killed, subjugated and enslaved by the priests. Christianity is no different than Islam in it’s desire to enslave and seek the blood of non-believers. The founding fathers expressly understood these concepts so that they made it clear no religion could hold power over the government and the freedom’s of its peoples. Why don’t you go BACK to school and get a little more educated because it’s obvious you did not study very much. Especially, anywhere beyond what you say you supposedly learned. A Master’s degree? LMAO. “All 45 were “conservative Christians”" LOL …. as compared to what?… liberal Christians?, sitting on the fence Christians? just converted Christians? formerly Jewish Christians? Christians that wanted to learn the teachings of Lord Buddha? You crack me up dude. And don’t take too much offence about military officers “diddling their kids” If you want to throw inaccurate insults then learn to take it as well.
As far as political expediency goes, there are far too many Americans holding on to ancient hatreds and bigotry for same sex marriage to be recognized right now. Clinton knew this and he had bigger fish to fry. I do not hold expediency against him.
But I suppose my wretched self is the problem in society. Poor poor me… I so wretched. And by the way asshole… I’m not attacking anybody that doesn’t attack or spread vile hatred and bigotry first. Learn to be a man.
Dear Rodin,
You have taken a lot of heat here. I don’t mean to give you more – just something to think about: You said that there has never been a religious state set up where there was freedom. Unfortunately, in the past, when religions or churches have united with political states or sovreign nations, you are right, there had been little freedom and much tyranny and oppression – even things like torture were employed against citizens. Clearly, TRUE Christianity would not allow such things. Jesus Christ did not approve of those religious states as you call them – of that I am sure.
But, our ForeFathers were a different kind of Christian – much more enlightened. They knew that true Christianity is very tolerant and very much in agreement with the cause of liberty. After all, according to Christianity God gave us this life to test us to see if we would choose good or evil. We cannot choose anything if our choices are forced upon us by an intolerant fascist state. Our Christian ForeFathers knew that and so they created the Constitution and Bill of Rights and our religious freedom or even freedom not to be religious at all.
But as to the question at hand – Gay marriage – here is the best I can do: I am sure you would agree that murder and theft should be against the law cause others are harmed by such. These “sins” are against the Christian/Jewish 10 commandments. Almost all modern law makes them crimes. Christian law – the 10 commandments – does not condone the gay lifestyle at least in most bibles i’ve read, much less legalized gay marriage. Stay with me here: The connundrum for Christians, then, is with their firm belief in Bible teachings, how do they condone gay marriage, while at the same time their Christian beliefs teach them to allow others the freedom to make their own choices and to be tolerant. Remember freedom does not mean that murder and theft are Ok – they are not – they hurt others. The gay person will say that his gay marriage hurts no one, but to a Christian indeed they do feel that they would go against the teaching of their God were they to condone gay marriage in a legal sense. And that hurts them Spiritually because Christians need to be free to say no to that which they believe is against god’s law or they feel they cannot be true to their God or obey his commandments.
To me the only resolution of this is some Christian tolerance in the form of agreement to allow civil unions, but not legalized marriage, which a Christian does not feel free to allow any more than they feel free to allow or condone murder or theft in our secular laws. Christians cannot also allow for the teaching of the the OKness of gay lifestyles in their schools to their children, because to them that would be the same as teaching in school that the lifestyle of a criminal who steals for a living is also OK. A Christian is not FREE to agree that any of that is OK.
But, our Christianity DOES allow us to teach kindness and tolerance to those who are different from us. We just cannot teach that the gay lifestyle is one that is OK for us or for our children. It is a fine line we must tread. We are not fascists and we do not mean to be intolerant, but we simply cannot do it and remain true to our God and His teachings in the bible. If we are forced to make this choice by government then we loose our religious freedom to believe as we do, and you become the intolerant ones not giving us our freedom to live according to our spiritual convictions.
Of course we should be kind, tolerant and cause no harm to gay people, but why can you not agree that civil unions can solve this problem for everyone and allow the most freedom for everyone – both gay and straight.
Our Forefathers were Christians and they knew that true Christianity allows everyone to make their own free choices and does not force anyone to be good, but does allow everyone to live up the highest ideals of their own free conscience. But, for Christians to be free and to live up to their own consciences they cannot condone legallized gay marriage any more than they can conone legal abortion, which to them is just another form of murder.
Then let us all be free by each side giving in a little – the Christians being tolerant of civil unions and being kind to those who live differently than we, and the gays being tolerant of the Christians need to follow the dictates of his conscience and religion and spiritual beliefs by not pushing his agenda too far into the personal lives of Christians, such as influencing what our children are taught in schools, or even forcing us to hire gays rather than that being our choice, after all, small business owners may have their children working for them – say in a restaurant – and they have a right not to hire anyone that they do not want their children to be influenced by. Some christians may choose to hire gays and my not mind their children working with gays in their store, but we MUST BE FREE and have the right to choose. WE MUST TRY TO LIVE AND LET LIVE BUT NOT FORCE OUR VIEW AND LIFESTYLES ON EACH OTHER. Sincerely, Jo Anna H.
Dad was also having sex with men in tents in Vietnam! That was in the seventies before AIDS was recognized.
blah blah blah blah
My personal feelings Gays are sick. God created women for man an from man came a women.
you know it is funny, as in strange, that the “moral debate” here really is connected to what we as a society do in regards to people loving one and other. the strangeness is that this “moral debate” often appears to elicit hate, anger, and intolerance. personally i just don’t think the issue of gay marriage is worthy of that level of volatility. don’t we have more important issues to resolve? if we let people who love each other marry, and don’t fight about it, it will become at least as boring as traditional marriage. as a man lucky enough to be married to a wonderful woman, i feel safe enough to say that marriage is not a hot topic unless we make it so. personally, i think our energies are best spent elsewhere. can’t we all just try to get along?
you go Rogin!
I’m with you man! Hah! These people are idiots.
By the way Jo, Christianity is a cult. I’m sorry you got involved with the hype. Learn to THINK for yourself people.
Why do you hate those who have a differing opinion from your own?
Jo Anna,
I appreciate you tone and you do seem sincere. BUT it does not really makes sense to say that having legal gay marriage spiritually hurts Christians. Christians can believe that no other Christian should have a homosexual marriage because they have the right to believe whatever they want. However, bringing that belief into the legal system goes against others freedom of religion. Why do Christians care what is “legal?” Why would you be able to use a Christian belief to outlaw something. Also, please do not relate being gay to murdering someone. That is pretty offensive. No one else is hurt by being gay. If you are spiritually hurt then go to a church to be healed. “Good Christians” around this country are murdering people for being gay and calling it righteous. How can you condone that? Why would you deny someone a civil right because your religion tells you to? You should think for yourself about civil matters and use your own reason and logic. Times change and there is a reason that people become less fundamentalist as they become more literate. It’s mostly because of the evolution of the ability for one to reason for oneself. I’m not trying to say you can’t reason for yourself I’m just saying you’re not.
I work in a drug/alcohol and trauma rehab and I can tell you from 1st hand experience that homosexuality is a mental illness. substance abusers make up 10% of the population overall and at any given time gays make up 30+% of the rehab . I speak with these individuals on a daily basis and at their lowest most unguarded moments. I have no hate for them. They are just lost people. I was raised christian and believe in god but would not consider myself religious at all. My political views are libertarian.I do not support gay marriage it is like codifying mental illness as a basis for a marriage. the other aspect of this argument is a civil union would protect their rights and not trample on other people’s value system. This is why the militant gays are obsessed with this it is because marriage is sacred to many people and they want to destroy it because they hate being told they are wrong even though they know it themselves. I have nothing against anyone who is not harming others and could care less what they do at home but this issue is about redefining our definition of society. I have had conversations with many gay people and almost all of them were either molested or raised in a fragmented household that there needs as children were not met causing them to reject society overall because they feel society let them down. so basically this obsession with calling something that could not be marriage marriage is a bug temper tantrum to punish their parents and society for letting them down.
To: All Christians Stand up and remember- There are no special rights to “immorality lifestyle”—Do the gays know the meaning of true freedom??? When gays talk about slaves in the Bible—do they really understand that all of us are slaves? And due to ignorance, do they know who is the slave master is? Do the gays know that sin enslaves us all and to regect God and Jesus is in all reality keeping the shackles of sin on them and remain slaves to sin??? Do the gays know what sin is even??? Do the Gays know why the Father(God) turn His Back on the SON while Jesus hung on the cross??? For God so loved the world that he gave His only BEGOTTEN SON that whoever believe on HIM would not perish, but have eternal life…For God sent the SON not to condemn the world but that the world would be saved through HIM. Do the gays know that to regect the sacrifice of Gods SON JESUS MEANS??? Do the gays know what the wages of sin is ??? do the gays know w hat it means to be bought with a price or sold into when it comes to slavery???Freedom of this world is not True Freedom…We do have a choice to be free or slaves–all of it—-the answers start at “The Foot of the Cross”—Forgiveness comes with repentance—not practicing SIN!So do the gays want to be slaves to sin or free from sin?? For what you sow is what you will reap—eternity in Heaven or Eternity in Hell—gays—your choice.
god isn’t real. Get another reason because honestly, it’s getting old hearing sick heterosexuals like yourself use that worthless excuse.
Hey Roden! You act wise beyond your your years when comes to bashing Brady Bowe. You I imagine are a liberal version of Regan, having skin cancer on your nose and rectum at the same time. Word of advice get (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) and start listening to Mr. Bowe. Military men are among the most experienced people in America. Like I said before same-sex marriage is a sin under God and may he have mercy on your soul.
I do not know here this comment fits but …
Republicans are schizzo about states rights. They want abortion and gsy marriage decided by the federal govt. To make it easier for lobbyists, they wany economics decided at the state level.
Just another example where the right wing has no clear principles – just whatever feels good at the moment.
Andrew Klein,
Maybe Rodin is an Atheist. Then he really doesn’t give a damn whether God has mercy on him or not. The last thing I’m sure he cares about is your opinion, nor does he seek you approval. Our soldiers deserve our respect because they risk their lives for our country. However, enlisting in the military doesn’t suddenly make you smarter than anyone else. I know more than one person the armed forces that may be brave but they are far from being rocket scientists.
It’s not a sin under my God. And that Bible you keep thumping? You might consider that it’s less than half of what it was before the Council of Nicea gutted it to produce a cohesive political message, and the Protestant movement then removed several more books to make it suit their political message.
Oh, and let’s also mention that piddly little First Amendment that says the US will NOT have a state religion, nor infringe on the beliefs of others and the free exercise thereof.
If you don’t like homosexual marriage, don’t have one. But as guaranteed by the First and Fourteenth Amendments, others have every right to have one if they so choose.
Andrew
Not sure where your idiocy comes from, but your mother definitely should not have slept with her cousin. As for respecting people in the military, respect is earned…. assuming Bowe was military… he doesn’t have a lot of credibility with any of his claims.
Regarding sinning under god… that’s between him and me.. you stay out of my relationship with him, Don’t tell me what I can and can’t do and god and I will have a chat on our own time. I’m sure he doesnt need you to stick up for him. (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)
bla bla blah blah bla bla bla,your nothing but a perverted windbag!
One, your comment regarding military personnel being more likely to sexually abuse their children is ridiculous. Im on active duty and in my 7 years in the service, I have yet to run into a man or a woman sexually abusing their children. Two, why is it that homosexuals feel like they need to push their agenda down everyones throat even though the majority of Americans believe marriage should be between a man and a woman. If someone is gay, fine but dont force me to accept that persons lifestyle with legislation supporting what most people consider immoral and revolting. Finally, why is it that liberals claim they have tolerance for other people, but do everything in their power to take away personal liberties for everyone that does not agree with them.
i use to not have anything againest guy until they wanted to change our laws to fit their needs and change my needs to not be exposed or forced to be exposed to their crap we need to go back to gay bashing like the old day thay i would not take part in but not i see why people did this the gays themselves have made me a hater not any thing or any thing else STAY OUT OF MY WORLD STAY HOME STAY IN A CLOSET OR GET THE CRAP YOU DO NOT LIKE EVEN GOOD PEOPLE CAN BE IMMORAL AND TOTALLY SCUM OF THE EARTH AND A SAD WAST OF HUMAN SKIN AND SPACE
What is hateful, is to shove your rod up another mans rectum. Dude, that is one hateful thing that I dont ever want to happen to me on my worst day on earth. That is just so hateful, gross, disgusting, vile, perverted, dirty, infectious, and foulest thing on earth. So dont call that girl hateful. That is just a mean hateful thing to do to somebody, and you enjoy doing it. sick.
Right on Mark! You Tell Em! You hit the nail on the head. It is a most disgusting perverted behavior that is very sick and unhealthy. I read something on the internet the other day that about 25 – 30 % of homosexual men actually eat feces from their sexual behavior!!! That is sick!! These people march in parades mostly naked, grapple each other publicly, have bathroom sex, and the list goes on. Now tell me this is not sick behavior? Then these types of perverts are demanding to get married? Give and inch and they will take a mile!!! Stand up people we must not give an inch!! Never!!!
The gays I know consider the pride marchers to be exhibitionist asshats who do more harm than good with their behavior. As for extreme sexual fetishes, that occurs among heterosexuals, too.
In any case, your not liking someone or their behavior is not a valid reason to deny them their rights under the Constitution. I’m sure the homosexuals don’t like your spewing vituperation at them, but I spent a decade of my life defending your right to say it, just as I defend their right to marry as equal protection under the law.
Mark, this isnt about what you like to do in bed with other men or don’t like to do. I don’t care what your sexual practices are. What I care about is whether human beings are being treated with the same secular rights and respect that others are accorded by law. Whatever you find distasteful you don’t have to eat. Personally, I don’t like eating barbecued chicken feet, but to some they are a dim sum delicacy. You may not like certain types of sex and that’s your business but don’t go spreading your vile hatred and bigotry. Learn to accept that others may not have the same interests as yourself. They aren’t hurting you.
Rodin…you want rights now to marry and rights to show off your gayness to straights. Then what you perverts want us to make it legal to have sex in street.,or have sex with children? Where does your A-moral behavior stop??
(COMMENT REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)
Would someone care to tell me the difference between a gay, and a pedofile?? I believe some pedofiles are also gay.Maybe all!! Well anyway they are all very mentally messed up. I sure think you would get tired of wiping brown shoe polish from your screw driver all the time. How you ever gonna get any work done? LOL LOL LOL LOL I crack myself up, and so do you gay people with your ranting and B.S.
57% of Americans do not think that marriages between same-sex couples should be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages. -USA Today/Gallup Poll. May 7-10, 2009.
Before I begin, I would like to state first that I am, first and foremost, a Christian, and a Conservative (not Republican) second. I hold to the doctrines of the true faith and to compromise my beliefs would be to go against my own conscience and the commands of Almighty God. I understand your point, I truely do. But I respectfully disagree.
If marriage were to be declared a fundamental civil right for everybody, what should be done if a church refused to marry a homosexual couple? You cannot deny someone their civil rights; it is the law. If the church were to follow their doctrine and refuse to participate in such a union though, they would risk losing their tax-exempt status. Without this tax-exempt status, a church would cease to be. It would become unsustainable. Essentially, the government would be infringing upon the rights of the Christian church.
The First Ammendment to the United States Constitution states the following. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
They are not allowed, by Constitutional law, to create a state religion (such examples of this are the Roman Catholic Church which fell under the full authority of the Roman Emperor, and the Anglican Church which fell under the full authority of the King of England, respectfully, becoming tools used to oppress the people, rather than to spread the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ). Marriage is, by its very nature, a sacred ceremony, and by Constitutional law, the Government does not have the power or the authority to ordain something as holy and sacred.
As I said before, I respect your opinion, though I disagree with it. But that is the beauty of these United States; that although we come from diverse backgrounds and walks of life, we have the oppourtunity to come together in a civilized manner to debate or discuss such things as these.
Have you ever been with a woman? Just out of curiosity?
Rodin,
Here’s the problem society has today – let’s tolerate every kind of behavior because hey, hey, we are a free people. Each to his own, etc, etc…you can do whatever you like as long as it doesn’t directly affect me…there is no right or wrong any more. Just do whatever man. Please do yourself a favor and study history to determine what is the cornerstone of society? Down through the ages, in any society, the foundation/cornerstone(s) of that society is the family unit. Without this family unit there is no Society. As the family unit concept gets trampled, trashed, and dissed on this leads to a breakdown in society. Homosexuality does not support Society it is rather a parasite on society. Argue all you want but simple logic and physiology/biology dictate these facts. Homosexuals can not procreate, without which, a society will eventually die. As the family unit receives greater and greater destructive forces in the society in which it lives it will eventually fracture and dissolve we see this happening with all too great a frequency in these modern times. Now, please don’t get me wrong I am certainly not saying that Homosexuality is the cause of this breakdown although it certainly is a small part of the bigger picture. It is almost more of a symptom of the times we are living in just as the fracturing of the family unit is. Anyway, I wish you well, but you should reconsider some of your commentary concerning Mr. Brady. I would hope that we could/would all converse like grown adults not emotion/hormone driven teenagers. All the best to you and yours.
Rodin,
I have a gay son. He says and others have said it is not a lifestyle choice. I firmly believe they are born that way. I love my son and his partner and they have a beautiful life together and are more tolerant of other folks that I may be. They are both successful business men and do not hurt anyone. Isn’t this what we all want? To be healthy and happy.What difference does it make to you ?What business is it of someone else’s what anyone does in their bedroom.Why can’t we just accept people for who they are not what they do in the bedroom?
Doomkin1110, no church that has theological objections to gays or gay marriage should be forced to marry them. That would be an unconscionable infringement of that church’s, and its members’, right to free exercise of religion. The Catholic Church does not have to marry divorcees. I therefore see no reason that any church would be expected to perform a marriage that violates its beliefs. Especially when there are other churches, and religions, that have no such objections.
Be careful Rodin. Godzilla is lurking just around the corner. Sperm is not meant to be put into the rectum of another, nor is it meant to be put in another’s mouth, or on the ground. Sperm contains life and is meant to beget life. How one has sex is hardly equivalent to whether or not you like barbequed chicken feet or not. It is not about “certain types of sex” but about the purposes of that action. Fornication and masturbation fall under the same restrictions. Sperm is half the sex act and the other half is the ovum. Go ahead and twist and wriggle until you make what I have said come out like you want it to, but that won’t change the truth of it. We have become a perverted society because we think that we can make whatever is to be something it is not. If a man and woman are married that does not mean that each and every time they have sex they must conceive a child. That will probably be one of your wiggles, but you will know very well that is not what is at issue here. This is about something that is very sacred and at the heart of what makes us human and not animal. Think about these things. Go ahead and scream at me, it won’t be the first time, but that will not change the truth of what I said.
Don’t worry Valverde, I’m not going to scream at you…. merely try to understand where you’re taking your argument. It appears you believe that fornication should only be between a married couple and for the purpose of begetting children. So therefore sex for any other purpose and with anybody else, including oneself, would therefore be sinful, if I understand you correctly. I have no problem if you want to live that way.
Where I have difficulty is where you believe that your morality should be enshrined in secular law and everybody else should be forced to live according to your concept of sin. I mean what are the penalties for masturbation, for adultery, for fornicating out of wedlock…. I’m sure you have an idea of how to punish all the transgressors.
YO,BUTT RANGER,GOD DOES!
I liked what Valverda said back in June 2009,sperm was not ment for the mouth nor the rectum, because it is life and life can not come from either location.
1. Now for you rodin, the wages of SIN is death(not a phyisical death but a separation from GOD-Not allah-in your life. GOD can not look upon sin because HE is HOLIY. To have GOD out of your life is something that no man realy wants. HE(GOD)keeps your heart beating,your eyes to see,your ears to hear,HE is the glue that keeps all of your molecules together as you see yourself and the way others see you.So,may OUR FATHER GOD and LORD JESUS keep you safe and heal your sins.
2.Fornication is when a non-married person has sex with another non-married person.
3. Adultery is when a married person has sex with another person inwhich they are NOT married to.
Both are sin.(it doesnt matter what your preference of life style is.) It is the same,SIN.
I think we have other thing to be more concerned with than either of these two topic.
For example:Wheather or not WE as AMERICANs are going to let ALL of yuor rights to be taken waay from us by alouing islam to take over in our great country.If this happens both of us will loose more than our rights, we will loose our heads.Don’t just believe me check it out for your self. Islam is hatred and means to get rid of anyone that is not muslims.:READ: Who Is this Allah? by G.J.O Moshay:and The Great Jihad,by Andrew C. McCarthy, Then rethink what you are fighting over for your RIGHTS.
PEASE BE WITH YOU ALL>
They used to lock up Americans who committed adultery because it damages the family unit. The old prison in CT had prisoners who had to serve a year. Trobule with us now is that we keep pushing the envelope so things like no-fault divorce makes divorcing eaiser. Believe me divorce hurts children. My husband who is over 50 stiil remembers when he was 8 and his dad told him that he was to take care of his mother. He just took off and never helped his children. Christians can’t change their beliefs that practicing homosexuality is a sin just because the world changes. We are here to live God’s will to eventually be with Him in Heaven. We are supposed to love our neighbors, but we can’t teach our children that homosexual acts, mastubating, sex outside of marriage is normal and natural. It actually has hurt society in so many ways, filled prisons, unwed mothers, STD’s and spreading HIV/AID, high divorce rate,etc. You can live us you want but don’t force me to accept it. Marriage from time immemorial has been when a man leaves his family and joins with a woman to become one. Gays CANNOT consummate or be joined like a relationship of a father and a mother with their unique calling to bring children into the world naturally – into a family unit. Family units are the building blocks of civilization.
It’s time to call same sex attraction exactly what it is; poor mental health. No one is born that way, no one has a specific gay gene etc. It is a matter of nurture or lack of it. Psychology has shown that same sex attracted persons have had childhood relationship issues with one or both parents and as a result of this emotional trauma deviate from the norm. If they choose to stay that way, then it’s their choice. The attraction issue is not a choice but a looking and longing for someone who cares; a nurturing never provided by either parent. At least that was the child’s perception. If the bought and paid for American Psychological Association was inclined to deal in the reality of the situation, they’d admit it is what it is. Just no guts against the politics of being gay.
Just curiously considering ………….. is ‘DOING’ Gay the same as ‘BEING’ Gay? ………. & if one does identify as Gay ……….. what else, today, can he possibly have time to ‘BE’
Mike, I really wish the school system would teach you a little better. You’re either incredibly gullible or incredibly uneducated, and in both cases incredibly stupid. Homosexuality in study after study has been shown to be biological in a small percentage of human beings irrespective of early childhood influences. The fact is that homosexuals in general are “wired” differently. Most would give their eye teeth in their teenage years to be able to fit in and be what society calls normal, but they can’t… it’s a drive from inside their brains. And it’s not psychology,… it is psychiatry. Please get a freaking education. Next you’ll start saying that having dark skin is or oriental features is also an abomination…. Don’t spread any more of your hate fuelled lies.
If there were a pill that would turn gay people straight, Ibelieve, many would not take it. This indicates it is a choice.
rodin here is the problem. Far too many people proclaim to be gay because they think it is ‘cool’. They live for the sitcoms and see an opportunity to be ‘noticed’ and cut free of traditional ties. Thus the gay pride parades, bars, parties etc… Our media makes gay look like a lot of fun. You have Dads leaving their kids and Moms who, after having kids, and living with a hubby decide suddenly they want to be gay. Women go out and have abortions like it is a trip to the mall. A society where nothing is sacred or earned. No consequences for actions that hurt other people. We are in the midst of the ‘free love’ flower children’s left overs. The majority of people in this world are not gay and really don’t feel they should be bombarded by other people’s sexual preferences from all sides. Whether it be gayness or other deviant sexual practices. It should be left up to states whether they want to marry people of the same sex or not, have child molesters walking the streets, prostitution, abortion etc … That way the gays or people with other sexual diviant behavior can all go somewhere with like minded folks and vote for it and people who don’t want that sort of lifestyle can move to a state that doesn’t want it.
Could you please site those studies?
Sorry, Rodin, but Mike’s right. There have been several studies that supported a gay gene, but every one of them has been severely debunked. Last month, after the final results of the human genome study was wrapped up and another commission met, it was announced that there is absolutely no evidence of the existence of a gay gene. Your evidence no longer holds water in the scientific and medical worlds.
In addition, why all the trouble over gay marriage? They already have the right of civil unions that are very close to marriage. Why try and ruin a God created institution by allowing a ceremony for two people that are in direct violation of God’s rules? The answer is simple: it’s just another attempt to rid this country of Christian values. The attack on Christian traditions such as marriage, Easter, Christmas, and the Ten Commandments has been going on for years.
You’re turn, Rodin. Go ahead and call me a few names.
America, land of the free! All Americans have or should have Equal Rights. One group of people do not have authority or power over another, especially those who have an imaginary god. Please keep your close minded, evil and full of hateful beliefs to yourselves. I’m for Peace and Love for all. Marriage, opposite sex and same sex, big deal. Leave your fellow man to believe and live as they wish, if you can’t, you’re truly unhappy!!!
Why is everyone so sure God said all this stuff, 4000, 5000 years ago maybe it was valid for those times. Do you think I am going to take the word of some probable sun crazed lunatik who spent 40 days and 40 nights in a dessert eating bugs trying to come to terms with his own sexuality, no, I am not. The old Testament says nothing about Christianity, the mission of Jesus, son of God or not, was to spread good will, loving kindness, understanding. Homosexuality has always been with us. It is human nature to stick your dick where ever it will fit. How many men have entered their wifes anus, or had oral sex with their wife? You are crazy to want us enlightened folks to believe that you are all as pure as the driven snow. You’re afraid,afraid that someone will find out that you have impure thoughts. Fear is a mind killer. AS for myself, sex is rather disgusting, but it sure does feel good, or it did, at my age it doesn’t happen anymore. Too much emphasis is place on where someone
or how someone gets off. You have your minds in the gutter. Get over yourselves, or start stoning wives who stray. In the bible did you ever hear of a man getting stoned to death for fornicating, no.
There is a lot of hate in the world, to bad I have to watch my back.
I just don’t want Christians telling me how to live my life, You are not Christians, you’re full of hate, you even hate yourselves. God will judge me, not you.
I agree with you Earl and I would like to add that “All are born with a sin nature.” We just don’t run around demanding God make a law that we can sin.
Hmmmmmmmmmm! …………. “sticks & stones” ………… name calling is like swearing or bounding a fist through a wall …….. it denotes a limited vocabulary and a vacuum where substance should be.
The Bible was used to justify slavery. It was used to justify banning slaves from marrying. It was used to justify banning inter-racial marriages. Now it’s being used to justify denying homosexuals equal protection under the law. No, the legal arrangements currently available to homosexuals do NOT have the same protections and legal standing as marriage. Wills, living wills, and powers of attorney have been overturned where the legal protections of marriage would have been inviolate, and this has been proven in case after case.
Your religious beliefs to not trump someone else’s right to equal protection under the law.
Come on guys,It is more than freedom of choice. We by accepting gay marriage are also giving all of the benefits and status that was set aside for a man and women. We get all excited about people that drive without seat belts and who are overweight are and how they are going to be an eventual government expense what about these people? Keep in mind that the fall of the Roman Empire was blamed on diversity and their falling in love with homosexuality and their hedonism.History aways has a way of repeating itself.Read the book ‘THE NEW ROMANS” WHICH WAS WRITTEN A FEW YEARS demonstrating the corollation between the Roman civilization and our own. Its SCARY.
Earl…. nobody said there was a “gay” gene. What I said was that it was biological. Studies have shown that certain areas of the brain are activated more in homosexuals than in straights. There may very well be a combination of genes that give effect to this or it could be part of that chemical stew that brews in our fetal development. Research has shown that there could be several causes including genes, brain structure and prenatal hormones. Suffice to say that it is NOT CHOSEN BEHAVIOUR.
And I really don’t give a flying F@#$ about YOUR Christian values. As far as I’m concerned you use them to support some very un-Christian attitudes. You want to be the Ayatollah and tell everyone how to correctly live according to Christ… then go ahead, but I think I’ll make my own kool-aid.
Poor poor baby… some Americans don’t want to celebrate Christmas? egads – lets put the lot of them in stocks and lynch all the non-believers.
Rodin, you are a child with childish ways. You are resentful of God’s wishes for all of us. To see God is to behave just like him. I know you seek him or you wouldn’t be so contradicting of yourself. All that you have written here is a good teaching tool for all Christians, and a good reminder of who we could be. Everyone has choices, so do you. To be gay is a CHOICE, not biological, or by genes. Pick up a bible (not a guy), a read it with your heart. God will change you.
Homosexuality is a choice lifestyle. It’s narcissistic in that one is only attracted to a reflection of oneself. It’s iconoclastic to our society and especially to vulnerable children who have enough to deal with today without trying to deal with two mommies and two daddies. A homosexual shrink said that he got out of that lifestyle when his own shrink told him one of the pair tries to be the opposite sex, masculine or femine, so why not just be normal and get a wife or a husband as in a real man, and a real woman? Instead of barnyard behavior. Children have even been told by perverted professionals that they are latent homos because of some childhood behaviour that is often normal with children, not a sign of any later perversion. Priests have been known to tell children that, and many priests were finally caught as pedophiles and homosexuals and the church had to pay millions to the abused children. There is a very dangerous situation today, children being kidnapped, abused, murdered, and it has a lot to do with the iconoclastic behaviour. Who cares what people do in their own home? But get out of the faces of the rest of us and children.
I believe as you do. Keep up the good work!
rodin it is chosen behavior. You make it sound like a gay person is a robot with a gene telling them what to do. lol..trust me I know on a personal level men and women leave their families of years because they want to ‘experience’ gay life. What it really boils down to is simply a sexual preference. That is all it is. Someone choses to have sex with a person of the same sex or of the opposite sex. It just isn’t what the majority want to have shoved into their faces and taught to their children. Do you think we should teach kids about other sexual preferences? Well, they are trying to teach them in grade school it is okay to have sex with someone of the same sex. How ironic. If they were teaching them about sex with a man and woman parents still would call them on it. And rightly so. As for Christmas…LOL…no one will take away our Christmas.
(words removed for offensive content)Homosexuality just ain’t right. That is why there is such a controversy over it. Gay marriage has been put to the vote in 31 states, and has lost 31 times, by wide margins. What does that tell you.
Why is it that all you 3 dollar bills, try to find justification for your twisted ways? Face the facts, it is not a biological problem, it is a mental problem and needs to be treated as such.
You all need to be rounded up and taken to internment camps and then treated to a nice breath of cyanide gas. WHy? Because you are all stinkin up the place, spreading disease and are a burden to our health care system.
The brain has a substance no firmer then tofu ………. neurological pathways are formed & reformed faster then we can picture let alone count …… nothing too ‘substantial’ in this ‘evidence’.
gary,
Mental problem? Internment camps and cyanide gas? That’s really interesting, as I’ve seen leftists express the same diagnosis and solution for all Christians and conservatives. Care to take sauce for the goose as sauce for the gander, as well?
Darlene is so right. The Bible, whether you choose to believe it or not, is the handbook God gave us to live our lives. It has been around for 2000 years and nobody has ever disproved anything in it. It shows time and again that as people move further and further away from God, they become corrupt and accept evil for good and good for evil. That is where we are now. God says that homosexuality is a sin, a vile affection: “for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature” and likewise also the men.
And for those of you who think we have evolved and the Bible is outdated, read the last few verses in the Bible. “For I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
People change, God doesn’t. His Word is the same yesterday, today and until the end of time. Do you want to see this nation fail? Turn from God and mighty will be its fall. Read the book!!!!!
Dear Marsha,
Thanks for your well said post. It was said that the founders
gave us a Constitution that has in it the “seeds of its own destruction”. This is the kindness and tolerance of the true Christian! It has also been said that “tolerance is the final virtue of a dying society” which is only true if the overwhelming number
of Christians in America do NOT live the faith they claim to have!
Christians ARE SINNERS! We who ARE Christians KNOW that. That is why we DO WHAT WE DO.
Marsha, you are mistaken about the bible having nothing that has been disproven in it. Each translation and interpretation leaves much misinterpretation and error. As a former 30 year Presbyterian and former 10 year Mormon, now atheist, I realize that there is no sin but laws that protect our society.
There are several scientific differences between homosexual and heterosexual men: ring fingers can be the same size while hetero men’s are larger, language tests show homosexual men communicate like women.
I agree that sexual behavior should stay in private, but the government needs to stay out of private business!
So what we’re saying is that a collection of folk tales that was only haphazardly codified in the 3rd century CE is relevant 2000 years later?
Not a single one of the Gospel writers was alive at the same time Jesus was. Christianity as a religion/subset of Judaism was invented by Saul of Tarsus (a/k/a Paul). The idea of a “trinity” didn’t exist until the Council of Nicea. And Jesus’ birth, which probably happened around 2-3 BCE, was not regarded as miraculous when it happened, but only afterward when it was decided he was a deity. I’m beginning to wonder if any of the so-called “Christians” on this website know anything at all about the history of their religion.
All I know is that when these homosexuals did not get their way on the Proposition 8, and it was defeated, they chose to be violent and destroy publc property and made threatenig calls, thay trashed a church, they deficated and urinated in peoples door ways who voted for Prop 8 and punched someone in a face, and made all kind of death threats, These people are supposed to be so tolerant and teach tolerance, yeah right give me a break, not to mention stupid Mass. schools teaching these kids to cross dress and being bisexual is good and transvestite are normal, this country is being destroyed by embracing perversion, and the peole in Washinton are just as much as fault cause they back all this crap, especially that Moron in the White House Oval Office. Please Gays And Lesibean’s Leave Our Chidren Alone, Or their will be consequences for your liberal actions.
“that which is against nature”
That which happens in nature cannot be against nature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/pf/56958719.html
The hate from a non-beliver is understood.
Hate from a bliever is non- Christian.
The Bible states that world shell hate his people near the end. I’m sorry for those who chose to turn their backs.
I do not, and can’t be their judge. We a simply to try to warn and pray for sinners.
I’m glad I’m saved and sad their not.
your kind is bound for hell! and call me what you want,but i am a christian and your kind digust me.most of you are so demonically bound that you can’t morally see or spiritually dead to sense your hell bound and you’ll answer not only for your sickening perveted sodomistic practices,but for everyone you have infected with your perverseness,the hottest places in hell are awaiting you!
How come animals aren, t gay ,because its not normal,go to san.fran
Animals are gay. Homosexual behavior has been found in 1500 species, including life bonding. If the moderators pass it, my comment just a few above yours will have several links documenting it.
Rodin: To suggest “Christianicide” is in and of itself hateful language. I am not sure how come it made it through this site’s filters. Anyway, my opinion on your comment to Darlene is the following. A true open mind is one that is comfortable with itself. Having the right to marry another of the same sex is already allowed, it is called a civil union. A marriage happens between a man and a woman. Yours in Christ.
Hey “Love is….”
Sorry you took my tongue-in-cheek Christianicide comments so seriously. Chill out dude…. there’s a whole whack of angry pissed off Christo-fascists telling me I’m going to hell and what a pervert I am. Now when a dog feels as much pain as these people appear to…. generally I consider that misery.
So you want to love everyone– I got no objections. Welcome to the wonderful world of people with different ideas.
You want to maintain a religious definition of an English word…. I’m probably OK with that too, but don’t be completely naive and suggest that half the sick f@#$s on this site would accept equal rights for a civil union as for a “marriage”. And that’s assuming that individual states will even recognize civil unions. They don’t all do that now. But equality does take time. It might even be still illegal in one or two states for a black man to marry a white woman. Or did we finally finish with that one.
And as for your idiotic drivel about an open mind being comfortable with itself, are you totally insane or just stupid. The germans were quite comfortable with their minds while they stripped the jews of their property and rights in the 1930′s. Their concentration camp guards slept like babies while they gassed the millions. Your kin was quite comfortable hanging the witches of salem, while the southern lynchings of blacks was not thought of twice by the perpetrators. An open mind has NOTHING TO DO WITH COMFORT.
Sorry to call a spade a spade. You should better watch how you wade into something that you’re ill prepared for. You can be mine in whatever religion you want.
Wow. You sure are hateful…and full of it.
You don’t scare Believers at all so you can shut your trap already. It’s your soul that is going to hell, not ours. You’ll learn about maggots the hard way. By your words, sounds like you live in it already. If you did honest research you’d learn that gays are 10x more likely to molest children. I wouldn’t even allow you around my kids.
Marie.. perhaps you could rattle off a few more STATISTICS while you’re at it. Maybe gays are 100 times more likely to cheat on their taxes or 25 times more likely to desert the army or 50 times more likely to tear the wings off of flies and throw kittens into the microwave. Despite the ludicrosity (sp) of the above statistics AND YOURS, you my dear are much more likely to support discrimination (possibly up to and including physical assault or worse) against an identifiable group of people than I am. BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION!!!!
Rodin, I am so sorry that you have resorted to hating God in order to justify the path you have taken re: sexual pleasure. It is perfectly obvious to any person that our physical bodies were designed to enjoy the natural act of sex between a male and female in that the female anatomy was made to receive a man and the male anatomy was made to give to the female the gift of life as well as pleasure.
The rectum of humans was made to expel waste from our bodies so that we could remain healthy. It was not made to take in anything!! Please consider these basic facts of nature. There are always exceptions to any norm but these exceptions can never be made to be the rule. If that were to happen, we would be on a severe path to the destruction of normalcy for the human race and that cannot be allowed. That would destroy norms that keep a society together and moving forward and that is not in God’s plan for His beloved creation. Please rethink your position because God truly loves you and will help you to get back on track as you lean on Him.
I want to throw my uneducated two cents in. I really don’t mean to sound stupid, but my question is honest and not with a hidden agenda:
If same-sex marriage is allowed, why not any person marry any person? Won’t the next step be to let any age marry? Couldn’t siblings marry? Would that be wrong? WHY? By your rationale, all are supposed to accept your opinion, so would you be willing to accept the father marrying his daughter? Better not say, “No”.
Finally, why have marriage at all? If it is allowed by every one for any one, why marry at all? Heck, a guy could marry his college room mate simply because they get a tax break and then divorce when they graduate. You see, it’s the snowball effect that concerns me. Forget the religious issues.
Sincerely…
Abe,
A) By postulating that allowing gay marriage will lead to allowing anyone to marry anyone, including children, siblings, etc., you’ve fallen into the slippery slope fallacy.
B) Allowing immediate family members is forbidden for a very good reason. Besides the danger of genetic recessives, children need an environment where sex is not the basis of relationships in order to achieve emotional stability. That is why molested children are psychologically damaged.
C) College students, and members of other social demographics, already marry for tax breaks and divorce afterwards.
Believe me some were uncomfortable in Nazi Germany. They came up with the final solution because the soldiers who had to shoot each Jew in the head had to be given alcohol and couldn’t take it. They were only human, too. If they resisted, they were shot.
I agree with Bill completely. There are too many unexplained miracles of people coming back from death and knowing what was going on around them while they were in a coma. Read the book by a little boy who almost died and met Jesus in heaven. There are two of them out. When Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from the dead He told him not to tell anyone where he went. God planted this primordial belief that there is more than just this world in our hearts. That is why so many different people believe in a God or gods. Jesus’s disciples stayed with Christianity after He died, rose from the dead and came back to tell them He was going to the Father. Why would so many people believe in Him if they were thrown to the lions and martyred in horrible ways? St. Stephen saw God and heaven while he was being stoned. He was praying and marveling at the place he would be in after he died. With God, the Son, God, the Father and God, the Holy Spirit. Too bad you don’t believe in God. BTW, there is no sex in Heaven. It is only here so people can go on. He loves everyone! But, you must follow Him like His friends did. Most of them suffered. I’ll suffer now because I am going against the world that reeks of sin. Our Lady says the sky is so black with Satan’s devils and a great war is going on between them and God’s angels. The supernatural is more real to me than this earth. The thereafter will be eternity, but now is just a few short nanoseconds compared to eternity. Choose wisely!
Hell will be full of fools who cannot distinguish the real truth……
Hell is terrible place where poor souls suffer in fire and worms forever! The worse death camp can’t be compared to hell. Once you are there you will be lost for all eternity. That is a very, very, very, very long time! Think about it.
Rodin,
Thanks for setting all these closet gays straight (forgive the pun). They all act as if God had written the Bible. Any person that thinks he or she has the ability to know what God want’s, is mentally ill. If God has the power to create everything around us, how can anyone in their right mind think they can understand or even communicate with the all mighty. On top of that if he created everything, then he designed homosexuals too and no one should have the right to question him/her it.
Omar says the same old tired thing I have read a million times. Trying desperately blaming God for creating so called gay people! BULL S___T! In the beginning God made man and woman period he did not make Adam and Fred to bum F___ each other pervert!!! Once Adam and Eve sinned that is when all of creation was infected with sin! Queering off each other is sin pure and simple no matter how hard you try to color it nice. There is nothing nice about eating feces, spreading aids, molesting children, converting children to homosexuality, invading our schools to train children to be queer, bathroom sex, bath houses having multiple partners with strangers, public sex in California giving each other Blow J___s in public in front of families and cops, and the list goes on. Now you now try to tell me this is normal behavior??? Then you belong in the Nut Ward with a Frontal Lobotomy!
rodin,
as usual, the sickies come out in these blogs. People who know what God wants are not mentally ill, they simply read the Bible. God speaks specifically about homosexuals and the mental sickness it is. Like most liberals, you open your mind so wide, all the crap falls in and you lose control. There’s another promise in the Bible from God, and that’s that EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, AND EVERY ONE WILL CONFESS THAT HE IS LORD. The idea that God designed homosexuals…..does that mean He designed child molestors, and those who murder and rape ? Of course He didn’t, those things are the choice of the sick minded, just like homosexuals. It’s not natural, it has zero value in our sociaty and talk about hate, these people spit and sneer at the thought someone doesn’t accept or agree with their sickness. Face it, those of us with standards are the majority. God Bless
I’m sorry reo guy…. the only sickies that I see are the ones that want to shove a fairy tale down everyone elses throat. I defy you to show how any liberals HATE christians. We think they are misguided, easily led, less than intellectual, certainly not egalitarian in their thinking and some are hateful. They and you would treat a group of law-abiding peaceful people with disdain and disrespect. That’s not being very nice. Liberals on the other hand would let Christians believe in whatever tooth fairy they want to as long as they don’t force their silly little religion on the rest of us. We can live in peace with you but it appears you can’t do the same.
Dear Rodin, You remind me of the guy tied down across a railroad tracks. A train is coming and about to grid him into dirt but he looks at it oh so bravely and screams at it and says “you can’t hurt me, I don’t believe in you.” Needless to say the guy was ground into dirt. It is the same with you God and your soul. You may not believe in him but you none the less you will answer to him. Dear child of God, the train is closer than we know and screaming “I don’t believe in you” is not going to change the outcome. Please rethink your life. Is it worth losing your soul over? Sin can not go through the gates of heaven no matter how much he loved you. It would not be heaven if sin were allowed in. Your are too precious to him. He does not want to lose you. He had plans for you. Please don’t let that happen. I am not any better than the worse sinner in the world. But by Gods forgiveness through Jesus grants me forgiveness. But if I abused that forgiveness he will cast me aside as a lost soul and I too will be ground into dirt. But in this case being ground into dirt would be a blessing compared to what is prepared for those who know not God and Jesus. Eternal punishment is waiting for you and me if we try to fake our way to God. He’s a heart knower and cannot be fooled.. Please at least think about this. Your very soul depends on it.
Unfortunately, Rodin, you’re wrong. Liberals will not allow Christians to exercise their beliefs. They already do not allow it. Every time some liberal/atheist brings a lawsuit against a Christian symbol on a city seal, in a cemetery, on a town hall lawn, in a city park, at a school or public event, they are violating the Christians’ right to free exercise of religion. I have seen innumerable liberals/atheists who have stated that they would involuntarily commit every Christian (and every other religious believer) to mental hospitals (or internment camps) to cure their “mental disorder” of religious belief.
So please speak only for yourself in regard to tolerance, as many of your fellow travelers have expressed the diametric opposite.
Sorry Omar but you have a gotten it all wrong. God didn’t design homosexuals, they are a perversion of what God created. You guys just don’t want to believe god’s word because if you do then you are condemned. But it really doesn’t make any difference whether you believe god’s word or not, because your believing or your unbelief doesn’t alter the facts.
Howard – you are confusing beliefs and faith with FACT. At least learn to use the English language with proper clarity. Just because you want to be a dumb F@#K and believe in a non-existent tooth fairy, doesn’t make it any more factual. If you get 500 million dumb F@#ks together, you haven’t increased the belief’s factuality or credibility one iota. If dumb f@#ks want to belief in a faith for 2000 years, it still doesn’t make it factual.
Grow up and start using your brain or join the minions with lower IQ’s deigned to be led by their nostrils before the latest prophets and tyrants.
I forgot to mention – I’m sure I will be slammed as a HATER for the above comments. However, calling you a dumb F@#k is not hateful, merely factual.
Rodin, I am a Christian, however I didn’t become a Christian until I was 43 years old. My husband was 44 years old. I came home from a Bible Study, and was working on my lesson for that day, when my husband came home from work, and asked me if I was going to study that stuff again. At this point, I looked at him and told him there had to be something more. I was playing my cousins album, The Starlighters, and they were singing, Is Your Name Written In The Lamb’s Book of Life? My husband left the room and I didn’t know what I had done, so I followed him to our bedroom and he was on his knees beside our bed. I knelt beside him. I had a picture of Praying hands above our bed. All we did was cry, we never said a word, but when we got up it was like I was walking 3 feet off the floor. I hear you and others saying bad things about my Lord and Savior, and I feel sorry for you. If you ever experience the love of God, you will never be the same. Since 1995, God has seen us through my heart attack and the death of our 41 year old daughter, at an explosion at a youth camp, which her and her husband were managing. In 2004, my husband had a valve replaced, which he was born with. His surgeon just shook his head and said he didn’t know why he didn’t die at the age of 50, as most do.I told him it was God, and he agreed with me. In 2005, I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer, and started treatments of large doses of chemo, which really was hard on me.I’m still getting check-ups, but haven’t had chemo for 5 months. My husband went through treatments for prostate cancer. During all of this time, we trusted God, and He never failed us once. Yes Rodin, Jesus is real, and yes I have had healings that only He could have done, according to my doctors. Also, do you know something else? God loves you just as much as He does me. Have you ever read the Bible? It wasn’t written by man, but by man under the leading of the Holy Spirit. God’s Word is true. Would you do me a favor? Get a Bible and read the Book of John, with an open mind and also an open heart. I don’t even know why I started reading these blogs, as I had a lot of things to do, but I feel God led me here so I could reach out to you and others like you. Christians should pray for those who are lost, as time is running down. Jesus will come to take His children home. Every knee shall bough and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. I would rather be on the Lord’s side when that time comes, as Jesus will say, “well done my good and faithful servant. We will all stand before God on the final Judgement Day. Those who know Him will be with Him in Glory, but the lost will be told, ” part from me, as I never knew you, and they will be cast into hell, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Satan will never honor those who worked for him, as he will hate them, even if they did his bidding. Life is a choice. We either choose to follow the Lord, or we choose to follow satan. You say God created homosexuality, but as one other person said, they are perverted, as they chose to follow satan. We are praying for you and the others. God does love you and wants you to repent of your sins. Please read the Book of John, for this 76 year old grandma. As I have written this, I can feel the Holy Spirit all over me. God bless you and may you feel His blessings one day. Time is winding down, as the Bible lines up with the things that are going on today. Get ready to go with Jesus. We will be praying for you. Grandma
You are suggesting killing Christians (“Christiancide”) and you think they are hateful??? You sound like a Nazi who hates Christians instead of Jews. May God have mercy on your soul. For the record – I’m a Jew.
LOOSER!!!
You say militery are three times more likley to sexualy assault children,then in the same sentence state you don’t know if it’s true, so why did you ask “did you know” as if you had facts?
P.S.- You just suggested killing someone, not even for having an oppinion, but for being a christian you are the hateful one (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) & you should seek counciling.
Travis
You should go back and finish elementary school. I know that kindergarten was good for your parents but seriously if you can’t read beyond the words, like “satire”, you have no reason to be at a keyboard in front of the public. And just to be absolutely clear to the rest of the troglodyte trash that survived the most recent trailer attacking tornadoes, I DO NOT ADVOCATE KILLING ANYONE, INCLUDING CHRISTO-FASCISTS. I made the mistake of thinking there might actually be intelligent educated people on this website that could read and comprehend beyond 6th grade.
Talk about foam coming out of Darlene’s mouth and her ‘hate’ language, what did you just say about Christianicide. You are a hypocrite. Darlene read from the Gospel. Look, I am a lesbian, very conservative, but I feel it should be at the State level. I don’t condone gay marriage. I know homosexuality, just like any sex outside of marriage is against God. But stop your Christ hate.
First of all if you would have read any of my subsequent comments, you would have seen my comments were tongue in cheek. Unlike the Christians on this website, I have no ill will towards them. They can live their live completely peacefully if they choose. However, when they inflict violence in the name of their religion, then I have a problem.
Now second of all, as for my Christ hate as you so eloquently put it, I have no hate, merely a defense against being attacked FIRST by the Christians. When people steep so low as to use a fairy tale to try and justify public policy and condoned hatred, instead of using logic and values of common respect, then I will attack them back.
Seems to me you have a schizophrenic problem of identity. Who are you really and why won’t you stand up for your own sisters that want and need protection. Your values seem to be a little self-serving.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm ………. “Me thinks the gentle man doth protest too much”
Rodin….you are the one living in misery and probably have infected other with your sick behavior.
the only reason you stay on this sight other than when your (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) is to annoy anyone who is’nt perverted as you,you do nothing but spread your (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) twisted immoral unnatural rheteric and skewed ”logic” to everyone here and as you like a blowfly won’t seem to go away,you delight in trying to squash everybody who doe’snt have your nasty slavering desire to do whats clearly unnatural and spew hate to all,you delight in telling EVERYONE else their intolerance,the only HATEFUL INTOLERANCE IS CONSISISTANTLY COMING FROM YOU!
WHO’S GOT THE PROBLEM???????
You my friend are just a hate filled evil spirited person. You must be a very miserable human being. How do you live with yourself. There is hope for you if you just open your heart and mind.–
YOU GO, WE SHOULD GET A “CHRISTIAN HATE CRIME” law on the books and let them see how it feels. We are getting tired of of those cry babies. We should write to ACLJ and see how to do just that. The Muslims are trying to get a “Islam or Muslim hate crime law on the books. What do you guys think?
I don’t know whether that’s foam or what comming out of your mouth aimed at Darlene, but your words seem to describe yourself, Rodin. Did you write that while looking in a mirror?
Gays wouldn’t care about marriage if there wasn’t a tax shelter for married couples. There should not be tax advantages for anyone, or any group of people. The Constitution says that, to bad our elected officials don’t follow it’s rules anymore. The tax laws are hypocritical. We need a fair tax, not a progressive tax, abolish the IRS, allow legal rights for gay couples, and all would be fair for everyone.
There is nothing hateful about what Darlene said. She is right that freedom to do wrong is self-destructive. She has every right to boldly and politely state her views that she thinks will be of benefit to others and help them toward true happiness. If you call evil “good” you are eventually going to call good “evil”.
Rodin,
John 3:16 teaches us: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Christ and christians DO NOT HATE we love God and people ALL we want is to follow Jesus and God CONDEMS HOMOSEXULALITY. This is why we are against it and if you believe we are wrong than you think God is wrong because we are follower not haters.
They say ignorance is bliss, I say we as a people need to wake up and stand up to the Truth. The truth is : God makes the rules whether you believe or not. #2-The rights come from our Creator (Province) not your selfish whining…#3at a Gay convention a man came out to share on national radio 5 points regarding the gay agenda that was promoted at the convention—–#1—Gays are at war with GOD.(because God condemns their lifestyle–period) #2 Gays are at war with the Church (Church promote Faith in God regarding gay lifestyle as an Abomination) #3 Gays want to promote their lifestyle as normal and acceptable so they place their people in Courts, (Judge walker in Ca., Jennings in education Czar-picked by Obama) to force their perversion to brainwash kids minds in schools across Country–HAPPENING NOW!!! #4 To promote equal respect by legalizing Gay Marriage—HAPPENING NOW!!! To feel Equal(very delusional)#5 TO Tell people That GOD owes Gays and Lesbians an apology for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah….When that happens I believe GODS’ Judgment will be unleashed—The Truth is: God was more angry towards the people who supported the perversion than the people practicing it…WAKE UP AMERICA—This movement needs to be stopped and sent into hospital for mental help—- Truth is YOU DON”T SUPPORT WHAT GOD CONDEMNS IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN GOD–otherwise your Faith is not TRUE.IF you LOVE GOD YOU HATE EVIL!!! YOU LOVE SIN THEN YOU HATE GOD..The ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!!
zappo777 says:
September 14, 2010 at 8:24 pm ADDING TRUTH WITH SCRIPTURE
They say ignorance is bliss, I say we as a people need to wake up and stand up to the Truth. The truth is : God makes the rules whether you believe or not. #2-The rights come from our Creator (Province) not your selfish whining…#3at a Gay convention a man came out to share on national radio 5 points regarding the gay agenda that was promoted at the convention—–#1—Gays are at war with GOD.(because God condemns their lifestyle–period) #2 Gays are at war with the Church (Church promote Faith in God regarding gay lifestyle as an Abomination) #3 Gays want to promote their lifestyle as normal and acceptable so they place their people in Courts, (Judge walker in Ca., Jennings in education Czar-picked by Obama) to force their perversion to brainwash kids minds in schools across Country–HAPPENING NOW!!! #4 To promote equal respect by legalizing Gay Marriage—HAPPENING NOW!!! To feel Equal(very delusional)#5 TO Tell people That GOD owes Gays and Lesbians an apology for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah….When that happens I believe GODS’ Judgment will be unleashed—The Truth is: God was more angry towards the people who supported the perversion than the people practicing it…WAKE UP AMERICA—This movement needs to be stopped and sent into hospital for mental help—- Truth is YOU DON”T SUPPORT WHAT GOD CONDEMNS IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN GOD–otherwise your Faith is not TRUE.IF you LOVE GOD YOU HATE EVIL!!! YOU LOVE SIN THEN YOU HATE GOD..The ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!!—-THIS IS TRUTH—
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:
25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.
28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:
32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, ————-not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.———-real sad Harvey!!! try to learn this lesson Romans chapter 1
Easier translation—-#32 32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them. If you believe in God –you do not do this period.
LOL…well said. When punctuation suffers as it does in so many of these posts – you begin to feel your IQ drop. You can imagine the dialogue sounding as it would passing through their less than plentiful teeth.
Poor Republican party has such a collection of these folks. Pretty pitiful.
Rodin, I feel very sorry for you, because you would say the same thing to Jesus, even if He were standing in front of you, warning you.
It’s sad that you consider what is true to be ‘hate’ speech.
Pretty hard to argue against this young man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q&feature=player_embedded
OH DARLEEEEENE
I can’t believe what you just wrote.
First, this blog is about how the topic of gay marriage had divided the Republican party.
While staying on the subject it has drifted off a bit to the right of gays to marry which is fine. But lets look at what your saying.
YOUR QUOTE
This is us today . . . we will not be governed except by laws that are to our destruction . . . for example:(1) Abortion, (2)same sex marriage, speech (hate) and gun (safety) control and many other such actions which take our freedom. FREEDOM is a gift from God that allows for our progression, but FREEDOM must be exercised within certain boundaries (laws, commandments). Many, if not most, people desire to set their own boundaries to include their disobedience (sins), rather than conform to the law and order than brings growth and peace. We are choosing to be governed by laws that will act to our destruction
REPLY
Abortion.
Darlene you can have 20 babies if you want. You NEVER see any of the people your accusing running up to your face when you go visit your Dr. screaming PLEASE ABORT YOUR BABY, THINK ABOUT DARLENE YOU MUST ABORT YOUR BABY, THE WORLD IS OVER POPULATED AS IT IS, GET RID OF IT.
We wouldn’t think of violating your RIGHT to have as many kids as you want even though we have to pay for them in many indirect ways.
However, many of your folks don’t think twice about hanging out at a family planning clinic harassing women, screaming at them to stop what your doing.
They get up in your face and chant and scream and block the path to the front doors.
Some of them think they have the right commit murder in cold blood on doctors if that makes their point. NOW HOW IS VIOLATING WHO’S RIGHTS?
SAME SEX MARRIAGE
If 2 consenting adults find love and happiness in marriage to gather, and that fulfills their life, how could you possibly object.
Your marriage is what you have make it. No matter who or how many loving adult couples decide their life would be better and more complete married so what.
In all the countries, and now states that have OK ed gay marriage, the sky has not fallen. Their economy’s have improved, and nothing negative has come of it, only good.
They want marriage to be happy and complete.They also feel they should benefit legally just as you do.
Imagine, you have spent your life buying a home,building a finical portfolio for your retirement, and all of a sudden your partner dies.
I don’t care if it took 40 or 50 years of hard work to get where you are, if he died and you were gay one of two things are going to happen.
The state of federal government is going to be knocking at your door, demand a horrific tax on anything he left you. Why? because you are not related to him, therefore you owe the state a huge inheritance tax, even though you paid for what you have. You built your life together.
The second thing that is probably going to happen if the tax man doesn’t get there first, is his relatives who dis owned the both of you years ago because you didn’t fit their personal or religious criteria, will be knocking at the door demanding their share of what he left you.
After all they are the next of kin and you are not related to him because you are not married.
You have no right to his personal savings, social security or pension. Why? because you could not get married if you wanted to.
There are those that fight tooth and nail to stop you from the very same things they are privy to, because some how you don’t fall into their moral or religious perimeters. They don’t even know you, ..doesn’t matter your gay and that’s all they need to know.
SPEECH
I’m not sure exactly what you mean here by the way you wrote it, but here is my take on it. You wrote speech (hate). If you mean you should be able to speak hateful things about other people, there is a consequence for it.
Words do matter. If you walk up to a black person and use the (N) word that is not tolerated, and it shouldn’t be.
If you approach a gay person and scream fagot and beat them down, that is a hate crime. Why? because you approached them with out provocation other than the fact they are gay.
The law works both ways. If a gay person approaches a straight person using a derogatory word and accosted them that too is a hate crime, because the assault was for no other reason then their sexual orientation.
Parents teachers and pastors, should be examples to their children, and not encourage this hateful trait in their children, because that is where a lot of this comes from. Children ain’t born prodigious their taught to be that way.
GUN SAFETY
4000 soldiers were killed in the war since it started what a shame, what a waste, but lets hope they did not die in vain.
Last year in the USA 29,569 died at the end of a gun…and for what?
Last year in Japan 19 people died at the end of a gun.
Last year in Canada 179 people died at the end of a gun.
Last year in the UK 73 people died at the end of a gun
NUF SAID
I understand what your saying, but to bunch it all together in a nutshell, someone that kills someone with a gun, gets their day in front of God. Someone who helps those all their life gets their day in front of God. Someone who selfishly chooses to have 20 kids that they cant possible take care of, or gets help to take care of them, gets their day with God. Someone who choses to violate his man friend by shoving his rod up his anus, gets to have his day in front of God. So in the end, it all gets evened out, we all get to be held accountable for what we do, good or bad in Gods eyes. None of it matters how we see it, for there is a way that seems right to man, and it is the way of death. What matters is the way God sees it. So then all through our lives, if we take a moment before we act on things, to think about what God might think about it, I think the world would be a lot better place. I mean if a young guy is getting ready to get some young girl naked and have sex with her, if him and her would just stop for a minute, and think, “What would God think about this”, there would be a lot of unwanted pregnancies, venereal diseases and suicides go way, just from thinking about it for a minute before you act. I would hope the same would apply when a guy is getting ready to shove his penis up his buddies ass, that he would stop and think, “What would God think about this”. The world could be a lot better place, thats all Im saying.
Oh, crap John, can’t you do something besides rant. Reread what Darlene said and drop your biases and you will be a better man for it.
Sounds like you got your figures for gun related issues from 60 minutes. How many guns kept other people from rape, murder, etc huh? better get your figures straight before loading mouth, your jaws are liable to explode.
Rodin Sounds like you got your figures for gun related issues from 60 minutes. How many guns kept other people from rape, murder, etc huh? better get your figures straight before loading mouth, your jaws are liable to explode.
JohnSounds like you got your figures for gun related issues from 60 minutes. How many guns kept other people from rape, murder, etc huh? better get your figures straight before loading mouth, your jaws are liable to explode.
Get a Bible and read in the New Testament1Romans18-32,Leviticus18:22,and1Corinthians6.God sent his son,JesusChrist to die and rise again to give everyone salvation.We are all sinners.No not one is righteous.That means we all have to repent.I was 16 years old when I heard on the news about men in Mass General Hospital being quaranteened because of an immune deficiency.They suffered terrible deaths because they had annal sex.I don’t hate gay people but I know what God says about their fate if they refuse to repent and turn away from their homosexual lifestyle.God created you to glorify him.But you insist on doing what God hates.God have mercy on your soul.God says he will allow the body to be destroyed to save the soul.
We are duty bound to warn others of impending disaster, this abomination called gay whatever is vulgar, nasty, and most of all…sin…in it’s worst form, We don’t hate the people, just the sin…..
John,
You are clearly one of the sheep. Your arguments have zero value, take abortion for instance, yes, we’re talking about the selfish, unexusable killing of another human, AND YOU LIBERALS EXPECT US TO PAY FOR YOUR RIGHT WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS, then if that’s not bad enough, YOU THEN WANT TO PASS LAWS SO YOU CAN CON OUR 10 YEAR OLD AND 12 YEAR OLD DAUGHTERS INTO HAVING ABORTIONS WITHOUT US KNOWING!
One thing stands true with the liberal sheep, they get sicker and sicker in their thinking.
JohnS, you were doing very well until you got down to “gun safety.” Then you totally screwed the pooch.
1) You have to adjust for per capita, as all those countries you listed have much lower populations than the US does.
2) You ask “for what?” at the end, then do not answer it. A) How many of those deaths were the result of police, self-defense, accident, etc.? B) How many other deaths resulted from the same causes using different implements?
3) As those other countries do not respect their citizens’/subjects’ human right to armed self-defense, you have to include all other methods of murder/suicide/police/self-defense/accidental killings, or you’re making the hypostatization of blaming an object (the gun) for a person’s actions.
Oops, my bad. Meant personification, not hypostatization. That’s what I get for posting at 0420.
Very well said John.
History is a great teach Darlene. It does instruct those who in their heart have a desire to learn. Nothing that I said earlier comments (in general) , do I consider profound or deep. Probably better described as a poor attempt on my part to talk about something much greater than I and something for which I have no experience.
Peter is right, History is a great teach but everything John says about gay marriage is BS. Here’s a History lesson, the founding fathers founded America as “one nation under God”. This phrase forever links our government to the Bible and if I remember correctly, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God. Don’t get me wrong, marriage should not be denied to any human being, as long as it’s between a man and woman. Otherwise it is called a sin.
Andrew. “The founding fathers founded America as “one nation under God”. America had already been founded hundreds of years before your founding fathers by the American Natives. Keep your facts straight. Our Belief of our Creator is that all human beings living on Earth are the most sacred and all should be treated with respect. The two-spirited people were unique and were not treated with hatred. Our Creator gave us the greatest gift of all, the freedom to choose. Our Children were the most important along with our Elders. No one person was given more respect than those who took care of the children and the Elders. I believe Jesus walked that path as well. He did not tell anyone to go into a temple an give praise to the Almighty God. And finally, Jesus said, “for whatsoever you do unto others, you have done unto me”. The American Natives walked with Jesus long before He was born. Marriage belongs to those who believe in living together in love and respect. Take a good look at the number of divorces in the world and how it affects our young people. It takes two to make marriage work. Who the two people are is none of my business or yours. God bless and take good care of your spiritual self.
Amen.
Andrew, you are mistaken and deluded on several levels. First you may correctly state that we are a nation under God, but we don’t tell anybody which god or which interpretation or who is the arbiter of that god. We expressly allow freedom of religion so that we don’t mix up secular law and the “sins” of Christo-fascists. You can call anything you want a sin…. I don’t care…. just don’t mix your version of sinning with society’s secular laws. The bible or any interpretation of it should never be used to justify hate and bigotry in secular laws. We tried that before when we used to argue that blacks were not part of god’s creation and could not be entitled to the same rights. We specifically excluded them from marrying whites.
Sorry, but your version of god doesn’t have a lot of credibility in the love thy neighbor department.
ho-humm,blah blah blah blah blah blah…..
Andrew Klien
The phrase “One Nation under God” was added to our pledge of allegiance during the Eisenhower administration in the 1950′s not by our founding fathers.
Rodin,
Stop trying to compare civil rights with gay rights. It’s not the same and Christians are not racists.
We’re not calling anything we want to a sin – it’s clearly stated in the Bible what is and what is not a sin, and homosexuality is a sin. That’s not being hateful, it’s stating a fact.
Our country was founded on Christian values and the majority of us are not going to allow you and your un-Christian values to change that.
If anyone is spewing hate, you are. Read what you have written.
Homosexuality may be a sin in your bible but so is adultry, eating shell fish and pork none are illegal nor are they particularly condemned. Why pick on homosexuality?
Susan, without trying to sound ignorant, what is the difference between gay rights and civil rights?
Are homosexuals not humans? Because I believe thats what you’re saying.
Listen. all of you. I’m straight as a roman road, although I am not a Christian per-sey I have been brought up a Christian from the age of four. But think about it, would god really approve denying gay people marriage when its for love? There is nothing different about a Man/Woman relationship to a Man/Man relationship. Well. Apart from the obvious. It seems to me that no matter what religion you are, it boils down to the same three things.
Love
Faith
Being a good person to others around you.
Now, Surely if you respect these true rules, and act as a good person for the majority of your life, and look after others, and fight for what you believe in, without trying to impinge, or force your beliefs on others then you’re going to make heaven, and god will love you. That means not gay bashing. that means accepting everyone, Gay, Straight, black, white, yellow, as long as they too are a good person, think about it, whats this acheiving? really? apart from spreading a little bit more hate in the world… can’t you all see that? or is it just me :/
Peace And Love
Hey Andrew, you are right! Liberals like rodin have no valid argument, so like good sheep, they always run to the, don’t hate, and hate is not a family value garbage. What they don’t know is we don’t hate the people, just the destructive act and how it effects America and our families.
I copyrighted the following saying and am completing a book with the same title…”Tolerance is for the Weak……..Compassion the Strong” Non-Christians lack the ability to understand this basic concept. I am completing against allowing the sickness of homosexuals to marry and adopt children, it’s a destructive, hateful lifestyle, however, if I knew of a person WHO CHOSE to live that sick lifestyle and as I was driving home in a major rain storm, and saw them trying to change a tire on their car or bring physically attacked, I would jump in, in a second to help him or her. This is something the liberal sheep mindset doesn’t have the ability to understand, you can hate an act and not the person.
or…..you could let others live as they wish to live and quit worrying about their personal adult lives or to who or who not they’re married. Enjoy your religious beliefs, know that those beliefs are not for everyone and stop expecting laws to be based on a 2,000 year old document written by desert nomads full of inaccuracies and edited history.
God has already stated that he will burn up the earth,sky and planets.This is due to sin.That’s in the bible also that because of sin the land turns into a desert.
or it could happen because someone who believes like this has their hand waaay to close to the nuclear missile buttons. So much prophecy is self-fulfilling prophecy.
I wasn’t sure what type of site this was b/c articles are so well written. However, the comments are very enlightening. All I want to say is that as a Christian, I MUST FREELY SUBMIT myself to the will of GOD. I should not be legislated by a government to do so. Women in America could submit to God tomorrow and end abortion and the law would be meaningless. GOD asks that we CHOOSE to LOVE him and CHOOSE LIFE. GOD does not require that we use MAN’S LAWS to do his will. His will, should be as the disciple wrote, “thy words have I hidden in my heart, that I might no sin against thee.” WRITE YOUR MORAL MARRIAGE LAWS in your HEART. If we are going to be Strict Constructionist, I WOULD MAKE DIVORCE ILLEGAL AS WELL.
Very well said!! If you’re not going to outlaw divorce…then don’t tell people who they can’t marry. (and if I hear one more time about people wanting to marry some kind of animal compared to someone wanting to join their live in society with another HUMAN I’m going to scream!)
Amazing! Somehow Libertarians and Conservatives forget about FREEDOM as soon it goes against whichever religion or belief system that they personally hold dear.
You have your belief system. You are free to practice it. Thank God there is freedom of religion in this country.
NOBODY IS ASKING WHETHER YOU CONDONE THE PRACTICE!!
(I personally think it is disgusting)
This is a FREE country. You can marry who you want, or at least you should be able to. Let’s leave the gay people alone to do their gay, gay, gay things and concentrate on something important….. like all the FREEDOMS we are losing every time we turn around.
Mike you said that “you Libertarians and Conservatives” are for freedom for everybody until it goes against whatever your religious practice may be.
To a large extent that’s true. But, I have been a libertarian since the 70s. I grew up in a Christian household. Early on I saw that the “adults” who pushed their religious beliefs on everybody really had none of the answers to questions I had.
All that being said, I truly DO believe in the rights of ALL hu-man beings. In the liberties and freedoms for ALL. And I keep having to fight with these idiots who think that the ONLY religious views that have viability, AND the onlty people who have religious freedom in the United States ARE the Christians. The rest of us can, simply, go to hell.
The fact is, whether one is hermaphroditic, gay, heterosexual, or even NONsexual, they/we/us are still hu-mans! As such, we have the rights to our own beliefs, thoughts, spiritual pursuits, likes, dislikes, food preferences, vehicle preferences, whatever!
As for gays vs. heteros—isn’t the whole, and important thing, LOVE? So, if two men want to be marriage partners, so what? Or two women? Or the farmer and his backyard oak tree?
But, A certain group of Christians can’t allow that, for (say this to yourself in a deep, roaring, thunderous, echoing voice) “We have read what God hath written, and we know what he wanteth from each of us. And you must follow exactly as we believe or we shall kill you– in the name of God, of course!”
Anyway, at least I wanted you to know that there is at least ONE libertarian who believes, truly believes that we ALL HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS.
‘Course, then, I am not a Christian, and that helps. And only a loud, few Christians believe that they have everything exactly right, therefore, they have the right to dictate to everybody else!
Sorry I came so late to this discussion, but I was dealing with a couple from here on a thread about the “War on Christmas”, and I see that they are here as well!
When we are able to say: ……….. “Our parents did the best that they could do with that which they knew @ the time” …….. We will find ourselves quite grown up & ……….. quite, therefore, able to see beyond our otherwise selfish & self centered preschool if not infantile ways.;)
Amazing! Somehow Liberals and Progressives ALSO forget about FREEDOM as soon it goes against whichever religion or belief system that they personally hold dear. Including such anti-FREEDOM beliefs as anthropogenic global warming, gun control, and “freedom from religion.”
My own father came out in 1991, took his innocent children to drag shows, told us God was gay and that we were gay too and allowed his sons to be molested by homosexual friends. The consequences of his actions have given him AIDS, broke the hearts of his children and wife (a lot of them hid behind wives and husbands already), sent 4 out of 5 of us into mental institutions from the confusion and despair and the innocent will suffer immeasurably by these perverted people. NO CHILD should be exposed to this disgusting display and they will pay on judgement day, especially the one’s who claim to be God’s children who support it to be “politically correct”. WE are called to love them but to NEVER AGREE WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. Cheney has bended to show his love for his daughter but he will be held accountable as she will, just as my own father will.I feel sorry for the kid she’s had. If he decides (there is NO gay gene) to be straight, he will lust for the same sex as his own mothers and that is trauma I’ve lived through. Wake up AMERICA.
Good think I have book coming out soon to tell the truth. I agree with you Darlene.
I’m sorry for your pain. However, you seem to now want to cause more for others.
AIN’T THAT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!
Your father was a pervert. Not all gays are like that. They do not force themselves on others especially children. Your thinking is not normal to condemn all gays because of your father.
agreed…sorry your dad was a freak, but don’t legislate laws that interfere with my family because your father was repressed and finally let it out abnormally. Anyone who allows their children to be ‘molested’ is in dire need of help.
Marie, I’m sorry you experienced that, but what your father did was no different from a straight man dragging his kids to strip joints and porn shops, and allowing them to be molested by hetero pedophiles. Should a child of such a father then blame and hate all straights?
As far as God being discussed by the Godless.(. the fool has said in his heart, “there is no God”.)
Homosexuals have rampant depression, alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide. Not to mention more sexually transmitted diseases. Come up with your own word to describe your right the be perverts in a civil union but marriage is between a man and woman.
Not to mention 50-3,000 “life partners” ………. let see in was that in a year on average? …………. how confusing is that?
these adjectives, all of which are symptoms of repression, can be attributed to victims of abuse. Let’s try minding our own business and not ridiculing these people for something they have no say over and we’ll see more of them live healthy lives. Stop grandstanding and feeling superior to these people whom you have no idea what circumstances under which they live.
The Biblical answer to our cultural devide needs to be published far and wide and I applaud your opinion. God’s word always tempers justice with mercy. I feel most of us agree that gays deserve equal protection under the law as American citizens, taxpayers, and voters. Marriage is a life covernant of a union between a man and a woman which is santified by God. While God cannot sanctify a union between others (than a man and a woman) does not mean that he would be against legal protections for the partnership covenant between two same sex people desiring to formalize the status of their relationship. The Domestic Partnership Act which has been legalized in California can be structured to provide the legal protections the G&L’s want and need as citizens without violating the sanctity of tradtional marriage, confusing our young people, and compromising our time honored traditions of morality. We need to listen to their pleas and find legitimate ways to address the injustices they suffer.
That will work only if those domestic partnerships are given the same force and breadth of legal protection that marriage has. And as history has shown time and again, “separate but equal” never is.
And as for God sanctifying it, it all depends on your concept of God. My religion has no problem with it.
Way to go girl. God’s Word is against sin and it shows homosexuality as sin. All Christian’s are to be like Christ and Christ died for everyone but everyone will not accept Him. You are correct that America is getting ready to reap the hand of God and He has blessed our nation for such a long time. Isaiah states “that which is evil you will call good and that which is good you will call evil”. Stand your ground and pray for those who oppose us as they are defying what God’s Word proclaims.
Darlene, the second person to reply in this column, really hit on “Truth”. others who responded do not like the “Truth”. It’s okay. Christians can not and will not agree with anything other than the inspired written Holy Word of God. Christian’s are commanded to love everyone. We are commanded to pray for those who hate Us and Love those who Hate Us. It is those who chose to disobey GOD, who are unhappy with our choice. We cannot be quite, but we do not do any fighting, we pray for any who are lost, confused or chose not to obey. We have to love the sinners, not the sin itself. No one, in this time period, really cares what goes on behind closed doors in their own private homes and making their own choices. Why does anyone’s life style or choice of life style ,have to be pushed onto others. Has the system really failed anyone for the last two thousand years. Are there some out there in this conference who has really been denied their personal choices. We have a right, just as those who chose to disobey God and His Word, to stand up for what we believe. But some are not happy with the life style that was used to bring life to them in this world and want to force their choice on us. Won’t happen. forced on us and our children. Everyone needs to seek GOD, if you chose not to, that is a personal choice. We Christians do not force God on anyone who does not want Him. GOD, Himself does the same, He has always been a gentleman. GOD Bless America, I read the last chapter and it is going to be so sad.
Well said, Carol. Beautiful.
Freedom is NOT a gift from God. How ludicrous! Freedom is won on the battlefield, in the courts, in the protests, suffering and struggles of men who have the intelligence, commitment and faith in a better way.
It is not sinful or destructive to desire a better life beyond the status quo; it is sinful and destructive to lives in general to live life without equal membership or respect in society. Religious or popular prejudice does not qualify as meaningful reasons for continued inequality, as time and progress have proven.
What James said. And before the Christians get in an uproar that freedom is a gift from God, even their God said that He helps those who help themselves.
if you want to live in a theocracy i suggest you move to one- ihere iran is lovely this time of year
well said my friend
Laws have to be put in place.Rules are needed to keep balance.I do not care what my neighbor does as long as he keeps it in his or her home.Bring it outside to the streets is pollution to the rest of us.If your subdivision has a HOA well it is to keep the price of the housing up and to respect each others rights that we all are entitled too.So you and your family are safe invirement.If I have to go by the rules you are most deffinitly going to abide.I do not like being told what to do at all.But I understand it is for the safety for me and my family and my rights.So I play by the rules.Rule breakers are trouble in my book.My subdivision has gone down hill due to incompident home owners.We have an HOE just 100 dollars annual dues.Poeple are complaing.Unreal.My parents pay 400 dollars annually.they are 4 miles down the road.Thier subdivision looks good.Ours can be super nice.But younger president has given up still cecking on him.These people think rules do not apply to them.Total disrespect.Were moving if it does not straighten up.Its sad.So rules are needed to keep the peace and safety of all.I am a gun owner.I have a right to defend my family and or neighbors.I am also experienced military.So you gun pointers need to let it go.Knives,swords are just as deadly.How about artchery deadly.Sticks,pens,a piece of paper is deadly etc..You laugh.Paper cuts.If made corectly can kill like a knive.We can not get away from this.Just like rules.I might save your life because I am a gun owner and I have a license to carry too.So,do not down us that are.Some I still think do not need to have a gun due to unstable mind sets.Like young and the bad butt attitudes.So, I get where you point your finger.I understand.But I can night fight a gun with my finger.Just a point.Rules are good as long as they are for the right reasons.Bad rules I do not like either.Your not alone.Just respect other peoples stuff and homes.Think if it was turned around you would not like it.So be cool and make friends not enemies.Healthy rules are cool.
later
it’s called spellcheck.
Darlene how dare you speak the TRUTH ! you should be punished for this !
Wall Street, Hollywood, US foreign policy, the Supreme Court, the legal system generally, mainstream media-management, the universities and the radical feminist and pro-abortion and pro-gay movements, are all over-Edomed. A century before the birth of Christ, a people utterly condemned by all the major prophets, the Edomites, were converted as a group to become ‘Jews’. According to Josephus, the Jewish historian who lived just after the time of Christ, ‘They (Edom) were hereafter no other than Jews’ (Josephus Antiquities of the Jews, XIII ix 1; XV vii 9). Roth’s Concise Jewish Encyclopedia (1980) says ‘John Hyrcanus forcibly converted [Edom] to Judaism. From then on they were part of the Jewish people..’ (p 154). The Jewish Encyclopedia (1925) says ‘Edom is in Jewry’ (Volume 5 p. 41). Yahweh the God of Israel, ‘hated Esau (Edom)’, a people ‘against whom he has indignation forever’ (Malachi 1:2-4). Revelation 19:13 describes Christ’s cloak as soaked in blood. Bibles with marginal references and other reference Bibles virtually all link this to Isaiah 63:1-6, so Christ Himself will destroy Edom. Obadiah verse 4: ‘Though you soar like the eagle and set your nest among the stars [referring to Edom’s power at the end of the age - see the US President's official crest with occult, so-called 'Star of David' formed with stars], I will bring you down from there, says the Lord.’ ‘There shall be no survivor from the house of Esau, for the Lord has spoken’ (verse 18). If you study the subject of ‘Babylon’ (Revelation 17 and 18, Isaiah 47, Jeremiah 50 and 51), it clearly refers to the sordid, rotten, sick, corrupt anti-Christian money-power so visible today, manipulating politicians and controlling the media. Edom is linked to this Babylon (compare Isaiah 34:5-15 and Isaiah 13:19-22 with Revelation 19:3).
Ezekiel refers to Idumea (Edom, also referred to as Mount Seir) as taking possession of the land and heritage of Israel and Judah (Ezekiel 35:10, 11, 15; 36:2, 5).The Edomites took control of Judea under the Romans – the evil Edomite Herodian dynasty symbolises this control. Jesus twice accuses ‘those who say they are Jews and are not’ as being a ‘synagogue of Satan’ (Rev2:9, 3:9). Jesus said to these Jews ‘Because you are not sheep of my flock you do not believe’ (Jn10:24-27). True Israel is hidden in the church – the evil modern Jewish counterfeit is anti-Christ (1Jn2:22-3).
The aim of the evil Edomite-Jewish “Anti Defamation League” is to establish the federal government as the pro-homosexual educator and punisher of Christian opponents of homosexuality at every level, even of public schooling. They are fighting for federal endorsement of adolescent homosexuality as a legitimate, normal alternative, to flood government-sponsored educational programs into public schools to promote homosexual self-esteem. Its encouragement of homosexuality on the grade school level will destroy young consciences even before they have been formed. Indeed, the ADL will gain more ground in their attempt to sodomize America..
http://www.truthtellers.org/
Darlene, thank you for your stand on Same Sex Marriage. We both know what God calls homosexuality….. He calls it an abomination. As Christians, it is our duty to LOVINGLY pass this message to all who will listen. If they choose not to listen, I feel so so so sorry for them. All we can do is to tell them what GOD said… and pray that they will “hear” before it is too late for them…
****
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Jer 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
ah, a picture of adam and steve. i’d much rather see a picture of carrie prejean.
God said Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Not many of us are buying this propaganda. We know what we believe in and we know how many of us disagree with gay marriage. Those of us who do not want gay marriage far outweigh those who do. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
In California, there are roughly 18,000 “married” gay couples. Compared to the rest of the population, that’s not a lot. It’s not even the purported “6%”, is it? I’m not “hating”, I’m just stating facts.
Because I do not believe in gay marriage, I will never honor one – ever. If you tell me you are Mr. and Mr. Brady and are married, I’ll laugh in your face. Not that I will mean to, I just find it hilarious.
Please move to one of those states that allows your sin and leave the rest of the country alone. Thank you.
Susan, I agree with you totally but with all due respect Adam and Steve was my joke before everyone else here!
“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”
Bull. First, you have no “needs” in this. Second, that statement is a paean to robbery, oppression, tyranny, and genocide. Third, this is not a democracy (rule by the mob), it is a republic (rule by the law), and the PREJUDICES of the many do NOT outweigh the RIGHTS of the few!
You dear, should definitely not marry a gay person.
‘Civil partnerships for all’ should be the box to tic at the Federal level for both types of unions. Government doesn’t belong in the marriage business. Gay marriage is not illegal, just not recognized. Freedom of speech allows them to call themselves married if they find a place to do so. To force an entire culture to rewrite it’s traditions is vulgar and greatly unnecessary to solve any separate but equal status. Liberals will eventually win this battle if a more intelligent resolve such as ‘civil partnerships for all’ be made and that will be the last bit of separation of Church and State. The conservatives will be just as much to blame.
good. gay marriage should be allowed. it’s there life let them do what they want. and for all you who are all like well god this and god that. well who cares. let god punish them. it’s his job not yours oh and god also gave us the frreedom to do what we please and if they want to marry smae sex let them
This entire episode in our Nation’s history is indicative of the political power of small, but highly organized mutant groups of our society. It is abhorrent, and the deadly issue with homosexuality and many other aberrant behaviors, is that the underlying element is a rejection of God, of His Word, and it fulfills only one thing…it is prophesied to occur when a nation is in its downfall.
It’s time to wear the American flag upside down…the well known military “sign of distress”, for we are well into it now, with perversity abounding and a fiat economy based upon nothing tangible in Fort Knox and the money presses moving like a Xerox machine.
Just A couple of FACTS! I am not going to judge a queer, which means odd, off key, weird, not fitting in because the master of the universe will. This life style goes against everything GOD created. Red birds are not matched to Blue birds and so on. Two, AS bad as the Romans had gotten, they didn’t allow Queer marriages……you cannot name a society that has BECAUSE their main goal is to get their hands on children……first and for most for men it is to molest and rape them; therfore retaining more of a population and/or ruining that little boy’s mind for life. I had a Homo tell me this in Germany in 1987………that’s how he basically enslaves them to prostitution and addictions. Fact 3, if this is NOT the situation, they still want children to raise the ranks of their kind………their minds are so distrurbed that at best they really believe they have the right to actually be a family with children, whom they raise onlty to confuse and ruin that childs life.This is not normal, at the very lease, the child is ridiculed by other children so that the child can and will never be the same as his peers.Fact # 4. Wheither you believe in GOD or not, it does NOT matter. Some higher power or something, whatever you may call it DOES exist. This world is so pefectly created, all the way down to your DNA, that everything is in perfect order…..something maintains this perfect order…….nothing is out of place except things such as these political correctness issues, which is basically being passed to buy votes.YOU do not and CANNOT put a SQUARE in a CIRCLE,,,,,it doesn’t fit. Do yu get it? COMMEN SENCE. Queers know this but they don’t care, so have to come up with some excuse. Whatever holds this universe together, GOD,the master of the universe or whatever yoy want to call it DOES NOT MAKE THESE KINDS OF MISTAKES….PERIOD. YOU ARE NOY BORN THIS WAY…THERE IS NO SUCH SCREW UP…..at lease not in anything living in this world.
Dick Cheney supports gay marriage. Okay, so why does this have to be characterized as a division in the Republican Party? I think Dick Cheney is brilliant, patriotic and a great asset to our country, but do I have to agree with him on everything he says in order for us to be compatable in the same political party? I think not. Dick Cheney – keep speaking up, we need your perspective!
Yes. Unlike the democrats, we the Republicans are allowed to think, and not blindly follow an ideal where no one is allowed to think separately from what the so called elite of the party tells them to think. As evidence that Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Sean Hannity will speak up when the republican party does something they fell isnt right. You will not hear this from the left wing liberals. They will never admit to mistakes, rather they will point fingers at someone else when they know they are the ones that caused it. That is why these days Im a a Republican, when I was a democrat for 40 years. Im an adult. I cant have someone tell me what to think and how to feel about things. Im a human not a pacifist appeasing robot. Sorry, not me.
Mark, What makes you think you are restricted to an opinion just because of party affiliation? I am (and have been) a Dem. for as many years but would not, will not allow anyone to tell me how to vote or what to say. Rebs. have a much more open and friendlier tone about them were as the Dems. have almost adopted a fascist type discipline. That may be the only way they can organize to get elected.
I myself, will listen to ALL sides first and then make my decision.
Thank you for your consideration. You sound like an educated man. I have just found that most dems blindly follow their parties stance, and thats sad. Now I do admit there are some hardball repubs that do the same thing, but like you, Im not one. If they do something wrong, Im as pissed as the next guy. No free passes. They are elected to represent us, and lately, its getting so all they both are doing is representing pointing the finger at the other team, being a part of the problem, rather than a part of the solution.
The democrat party of today seems to almost be cult like.
“Almost”? Well, I suppose there are a few Dems who will occasionally still act like sapient beings instead of D-N-C-programmed monkey-bots, but they are few and far between, and so are the issues they’ll dare to differ on.
And if you look back over this thread, you’ll see a lot more cult-like soundbite-parroting among the Reps here than you’ve credited them with. It seems the more political power the religious right gets, the more they sound exactly like the ideology-bleating monkey-bots of the left.
Mark if you are a free thinking republican you are one of a very rare breed.
I
find most of the republicans all think the same and take their talking points from Limbaugh and Hannity.
I listen to these people now and then I can’t take them much, besides I have a life and cant listen to the right wing preachers every day.
But to make my point (after listening to them off and on for years) I have noticed that the callers never or very seldom add anything to the program.
As you know if you listen to Limbaugh, he takes very few calls compared to the time he is on the air.
That means the callers are hanging on the line for ever. Then when he finally takes them they do one of two things.
They reiterate exactly what he just said, or they reiterate almost exactly what some one else said 30 minutes before.
They bring NOTHING to the table. What they really want is to get Limbaugh to say that’s right, that’s right. In essence they wait on the line forever just to get an adda-boy from Limbaugh.
Hannity’s callers are the same. When they call they always tell Hannity ” Your a great American” though he has no idea who they are he has to tell them they are a great American.
I don’t listen to him much because he rambles on and on, with half truth propaganda that does nothing but put down the one man who is being a real leader.
My point is it’s very hard to believe the lower class republicans are free thinkers.
There are two classes of republicans. Those few at the very top of the party and very rich, and all the rest at the bottom who hang on to every word the few pied pipers have to say. The Jerry Springer show is full of them.
They are the Sara Palin for President croud. Why? because they are just like her, and figure the only way they will ever be on TV is to be the butt of a joke on Saterday Night Live.
I dont know. When I listen to talking heads, I try not to judge them by if they say things I agree with, but by if they speak the truth or not, after first studying the issues they talk about. Funny when you mention Rush Limbaugh, whom I definately do see farther right than the rest, but Ive never caught him in a lie, like say Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden, Barrack Obama, John Kerry, Chuck Shummer and many others. Sean Hannity I have never caught in a lie, nor Glenn Beck, and I have seen them hurl their share of criticism at the Republicans, and rightly so when it was merited to do so. But all these guys, I have never caught them telling a lie, and they all articulate their points with examples, and I really dont see how you can not acknowledge the truth they speak, other than you are a die hard left wing liberal, and you dont like being called out on the things your party does and believes in and practices. The truth hurts sometimes, but its still the truth, and the truth will set you free.
Well john s. You got all the answers. Try giving your top 10 solutions to correcting our country, and bringing back a thriving, creative, family oriented shinning light to the world that raises good honest moral thinking American men and women. Because if we had many more of those people alot more people would enjoy more freedoms.
Whew ………. my ………. how we do digress!
“Lower class Republicans”? You think all the educated ones are rich? And all the rest are dumb hicks who worship talk radio hosts and will hang on a phone line forever to get their voice on a radio for a couple of seconds?
You think you’re so fair and educated, but you spout the same narrow-minded, D-N-C-regurgitated, bigoted soundbites as the rest of the leftists.
I believe you have a false sense of the solidarity of deomcrats. Many democrats were in favour of doing stupid things like going in to IRAQ. Many democrats actually like guns and many do not support gay marriage so I’m not sure you can make blanket ideological statements that there is blind adherence in that party. Methinks you yourself are just plain blinded by ignorance.
I got up and was wondering how people like John and Robin can be so far removed from reality. Theres getting to be more and more. Its sad for them and America and us all. The left is so anti-God in their lives and they try to justify their sin by point their fingers at others and hating everyone that points their sin out to them. Then I remembered the last words of Jesus. It wasnt for just that moment but for all of us lost in sin. So before I move on to different things and let them have their rants I just want to remind us all of what he said. It fits all of us from time to time. Without Jesus we could be just as lost as them. For now on this subject. “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”
To 13th Gen American…I believe the last words of Jesus were,”It is finished”.But that would be the Gospel of John,the one who was there at the cross.It was probably just heresay.John 19:30-NLT
Ignorance is thinking that it was stupid to liberate the millions in Iraq, and let a dictator with Hitler type designs for taking over the world left uncheck. That would have been irresponsible on our part. According to your own thoughts on this, when Saddam invaded Kuwait we should have just let him take it. Then according to you, we should have let him take Iran, Syria, Israel, and many others before we decided to act. Kind of like when Hitler was left unchecked until he had destroyed and taken over all of Europe. If you cant see that, I cant help you. The guy even killed thousands of his own people. I guess what Im saying is I couldnt live with your mentality, that we arent supposed help others out. I am blessed with what I have, but I constantly share with others, I try to right wrongs when I see them, and anything less is just selfishness and wrong. You find fault with the war in Iraq, because it was a republican president who took us there. If this had started while Bill Clinton was president, or Barrack Obama, you would have said nothing. You my friend are politically biased. You also fail to recognize, that is wasnt George Bush that took us to war, it was the democrat controlled congress. You and I both know the President cannot come in and do what he wants to do. Its takes an act of congress. So if you feel guilty, then share in the guilt. I myself, am in daily communication with guys over there, and its a shame that the whole Bush administration, the national media tried to torpedo our efforts in telling the American people it was failing and we were losing. Funny how when I talk to soldiers I know overthere, what they are telling me is a whole different ball game. Me myself, I trust to believe the guy there, not the guy who is writing a story with a political agenda to propaganda against his own country. Time always tells the tale, and one day it will go down what a great man and great President George W. Bush was, sacrificing his favor with the people to do what was right. Of course, again, you and I both know he lost favor with the people, due to the political agenda based lies of the national news media. If you take issue with that, then you sir are lying to yourself.
Mark you are mistaken… I did not infer any of what you supposedly attribute to me. I’m very specific in my condemnations and NEVER said it was wrong for the first Iraq war. I’ve also never complained about daddy Bush. The son is a different matter and I have trouble finding very much good in his entire eight years. You say it’s ok to go to war to liberate people. Fine… which ones do you want to liberate first. How about Rwanda while the genocide was occuring and we did nothing, how about Tibet when the Chinese marched in and we did nothing, how about Chile where we actually created a dictatorship and supported death squads… ok not just Chile but throughout South America. How about right now in Iran, North Korea, Mogadishu, Syria, Ethiopia, How about China itself, why did it take so long to attack Belgrade. The only reason we attacked Iraq was because Bush and his people created lies to make you believe it was more dangerous than it really was. Your comments about liberating IRAQ are painfully ignorant of foreign policy and history.
I don’t know why you insist on putting words in my mouth. I never said I would have agreed if Clinton or Obama did the same thing so why are you trying to assume facts not in evidence. You’re only creating rhetoric instead of dealing with facts. How would you like it if I said you agreed with drowning witches, wife beating, and dragging gay kids behind pickup trucks. You didn’t reference either so I would be very remiss if I said you did. So quit telling me what i do think….I’m pretty capable of communicating it on my own
Well “words in (your) mouth” ……….. probably better n’ soap …….. thanks for cleaning up your expression!;)
Rodin I have no delusions when it comes to party solidarity.
There are back stabbing politicians on both sides, that put their career’s ahead of the good of the country. (the recent vote in NY re Gay marriage is a good example)
Truth be known I am a registered Independent, that has long coat tails leading from the democratic party.
I am a fiscal conservative but strongly adhere to liberal belief in civil rights for everyone. As for the war in Iraq, it was uncalled for and biased on hysteria, and a corrupt administration aging for a fight.
Afghanistan was a far more reasonable target.
This country has a history of long term involvements that were incited by flat out lies. The golf of Ton kin comes to mind, the sinking of the Main in Cuba is another, (Spanish American War)but there are many many more.
Obama’s vote NO was a brave one at the time, and he was right, but 95% of the American public went along with the decision because (1) there was no doubt we truly were attacked, (unlike Tonkin) and everyone clear up to Colin Powell, stiring the cool aid in front of the UN.
Bush rebuked good information warning him with advanced information on the attack.
I admit there are Dems that love their guns, but are far fewer per capita than the right wingers. The same goes for Gay marriage.
When you get the latest poll numbers saying that 67% of Americans think DADT should be abolished, the numbers for gay marriage go up consistently every year, and the case for civil unions is getting close to that of DADT.
No, no one in any party thinks in exact unison, but considering the Presidents numbers are what they are, (dispite the state of the union) and the Republican’s numbers are what they are… “me thinks” one need not squint to see which side of the pit the pendulam is on.
Falce solidarity? Blind asherence? Not quite
I guess I dont understand why in your mind it was stupid to go to Iraq. For one, you dont think Saddam Hussein was a dangerous madman with controlling the world designs? He needed stopped, lest we deal with another Hitler, only this time with him controlling the oil we need. Two, you dont think those people over there needed freedom, or deserved it? You deem yourself worthy of acceptance and freedom because your gay, so what make you better than these oppressed folks who were being killed for wanting to be free? Our government freed you, why not them? Maybe you arent aware of all the weapons we did capture from these guys, and of the list of weapons this guy had that were inventoried during the Clinton administration, when the UN sent inspectors in and produced pages and pages of weapons of mass destruction. Where they went, who knows. Its a big country with a lot of sand. Could be in Iran, could be in Syria. Could be in Saudi Arabia, as I for one dont trust any of them. It was a good thing to go in there. And man, please, stop the writing like the Christians are your enemy and out to get you. Dude, we pray for you and actually give a crap about you allright, even though you hate us. Now the muslims, yeah, those cats hate you worse than my Christian butt. They hate us both, but you a lot more than me. So, get this straight, I dont agree with your lifestyle, you dont agree with mine, but if these cats come over here attacking, I will gladly stand beside you and try to defend you and I both, Ok. Understood?
You’re kidding if you think the Democrats are against gay rights,gay marriage.They have fought to push that agenda for votes.Also abortion.God will bring this country to nothing because of all the sin that’s going on in our nation.
Have you any idea of why we went?Because we sold weapons to Saddam Hussein and he used them on the Kurds.Thank you Senior George W. Bush for selling weapons to the tyrant.
Rodin, its me again. You are right that many Democrats favor stupid thing but my definition of many would be the majority since 1988. Now all Democrats care about is stopping a war in the Middle East, and replace all that killing with the murder of unborn children and and encouraging the spread of HIV via “Rump Wranglers”.
Andrew
First of all there are many free thinking republicans that are against the state turning a woman into a slave and denying her rights to her own body. Second, there aren’t too many republicans left that think it was a good idea going into Iraq and diluting the only real chance of defeating the seeds of terrorism in Afghanistan. We spent a trillion dollars and thousands of our young soldiers lives completely wastedly. Their lives mean NOTHING. They were sold out by a corrupt administration that illegally invaded Iraq and did nothing for America’s safety. It was a complete waste. Oh and how about all those missing arms and legs of the soldiers that came back maimed. How do you feel about that, (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT). Wasted lives for NOTHING except to make a fat old vice president’s friends rich and to make junior feel like he was finishing what his father started. Third… I’m real sorry you hate gays so much, but those kind of comments are idiotic, stupid and useless.
Rodin, anyone who thinks going into Iraq was a waste, or illegal, is either ignorant or a fool. Iraq was a festering sore that needed to be lanced for the US to regain any credibility in that region. Leaving Saddam in power was the second-biggest mistake George H. made. The first was calling a cease-fire in place and allowing the entire Republican Guard to escape through the gap that needed only another 16 hours to close. And Daddy Bush has an entire suite of rooms in Hell waiting for him, for the slaughter he allowed among the Iraqis who rose in rebellion at HIS instigation while our troops were ordered to do nothing. Or worse than nothing, actually turn refugees who’d escaped to our lines over to that same Republican Guard to be murdered in sight of our troops.
Saddam was one of the biggest sponsors of terrorism in that region. His remaining in power after Desert Storm was a heralded as a symbol of Islamic power over the rest of the world. Twelve years of attacks against the troops enforcing the no-fly zones with no significant retaliation were, in that area’s cultural view, proof of the weakness of every country who had troops there. His stalling, spoofing, hindering, and throwing out the weapons inspectors — while still remaining in power! — were taken as more proof of weakness. He was a shining beacon of Islamic Nationalism even to those who would gladly have put his head on a pike in front of their own national mosque. AND!!! The fact that the coalition, particularly the US, had troops in Saudi Arabia — sacred Muslim soil — was one of the reasons Bin Laden gave for Al Qaeda declaring war on the US back around 1996.
Nor was there anything “illegal” about restarting active operations in an ongoing conflict when Saddam had broken the cease-fire twelve years earlier. By the Security Council resolutions, ANY coalition member, unilaterally or in concert with others, could have gone in the first time an Iraqi missile truck targeted one of the aircraft enforcing the no-fly zone. ANY coalition member, unilaterally or in concert with others, could have gone in the first time one of the weapon inspectors complained about Saddam’s stonewalling. It was a cease-fire with very specifically defined conditions, and Saddam broke it practically before the ink was dry. That nothing was done about it for twelve years doesn’t invalidate the provisions allowing something to be done about it.
Frankly, one of the stupidest things George W. did was to ask UN permission to go back in, instead of citing the hundreds of violations and just doing it.
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I am so sick and tired of how distorted and misrepresented the truth is being told. Gods Laws are very clear and not designed to be sorta, maybe, kinda respected. Our Bill of Rights and our Constitution were inspired by a much greater power and written by good God fearing men for all time to be honored. People choose to only do the things and believe in the things that are comfortable and disregaurd those things that come from the narrow path of truth. Our schools removed as much truth as possible back in the 60′s because they new a lie could not stand up to the truth. Living a morally sound life is not easy but the rewards are amazing. Just because you have tendencies toward some one either of the same sex or even if your a man and women married, what separates us from the animals is that we make a choice to honor the truth. God made it very clear that homosexuality and permiscuous behavior would result in NO ETERNAL LIFE. It is a SIN like it or not. Our founding fathers wrote our Constitution based on these truth’s and believed in the one GOD that spoke them in his hand book for us to follow. This makes our country and its laws a Christian nation. We are here to honor his will so that we may injoy eternal life.
We are not here to judge that is for GOD! But we as a Christian nation with our Constitution as it was inspired and written cannot consider any other definition of MARRAGE than between an Man and a Women. If people want anything else for a relationship it cannot be called a Marrage by our Constitution. This is not to be mean, we must live truth and stand on those priciples as a foundation or we have no foundation and we will fall hard as a country and a people. This lifestyle is just that, it’s a lifestyle preference and they are not a nationality, they just choose to live out of GOD’s truth’s in sin. This is their choice. It must not be shoved down our throats and taught to our impressionable children either. School is not the place for this kind of lifestyle to be taught and add confusion to their already difficult growing years. Truth’s need to be again taught daily to our children if we are to have honorable leaders in the future.
Stop watering down the truth. I two men and two women could pro-create and make the most increadable miracle given to man then I might start believing that Homosexuality is ok. But they can’t and they never will and men will never give birth and two women cannot get pregnant and people need to stop watering down the truth. We can love them as a person but we do not have to accept their lifestyle as normal. God does not make you gay he gives you the truth and an opportunity to act on the truth or act in sin. It’s their choice.
Sorry dude…. you been sipping too much kool-aid, not sure what’s worse, the sugar high you’ve got or the rampant disrespect you show to freedom and respect for those who either have a different interpretation of your own religion’s teachings, those that follow a different religion or those that chose not to have any religion. The only way for a society to move forward is to create a set of laws and principles which reflect respect for everyone. Sorry if this means you have to give up some of your bilious hatred.
Wow ! At what point did I make a Hate statement? If two men and two women could pro-create a gift that GOD gives us then I would believe, that lifestyle was honoring GOD. He made us the way he made us for a reason. If we choose to live outside his rules we will be punished. There are rules everywhere in life to keep order and respect. Not to agree that homosexuality is a correct lifestyle is only living in GOD”S will. We do not hate the person , we do not agree with the act. For our kids, ramming this kind of lifestyle down their throats is confusing and will bring this country and our moral values down. Again, just because we may desire something, we choose not to act on those feelings out of respect and honor and that makes us different from animals. We as humans have will to choose the right path or the wrong path. No one said life was easy and we are hear to EARN our way into etetnity. It ain’t free
sheesh…what part of “the rampant disrespect you show to freedom and respect for those who either have a different interpretation of your own religion’s teachings, those that follow a different religion or those that chose not to have any religion. The only way for a society to move forward is to create a set of laws and principles which reflect respect for everyone.” don’t you get?
These ‘God’s laws’ might work for you, your family, your friends, but they don’t work for everyone…freedom of religion guarantees you can enjoy these laws all you want – it also means others who don’t believe in them don’t have to! If you want a theocrazy…go to the Middle East…
So I guess that all the truths and all the laws that were established years ago by very wise and inspired men and women stand for nothing anymore right? They were just stupid people back then and because we now want to progress we don’t need any laws or foundations to launch our futures from. We just need to jump out there and land where ever we fall . Great plan but that is not how America became Great and the one place for so many people around the world to desire to come and be free. We became great because we stood on moral priciples and values and we were able to breed great people from that. We were creative and inventive but now all people want to do is what ever feels good and change and re-write laws and rules to fit into their lifestyles today. You got it all wrong. It’s those rules and laws that are now more important than ever to follow. If we just keep changing the rules then we are on nothing but sand and our homes are going down forever. The only people spitting out hate are the ones living in SIN, being called on it and feeling hurt because they know that way of life will not bring them to eternal life in the end. None of us are perfect but at least for myself I constantly work towards where i want to end up. Im not sorry that someday I will be before my maker and he will say “Well done good and fiathful servant” (i hope and pray)
.Rodin,
In the 17Th century Galileo sided with Copernicus’s discovery that the sun was a placed fixture and that the earth orbited around it, rather than the earth being the stationary planet with the sun orbiting around it.
As we all know when this FACT got to the pope (one of the ALL KNOWING religious figures of the time) Galileo was in very deep dodo. He was forced to recant his facts,
and Copernicus never published his writings until he was on his death bed.
It took 350 years for the pope to finally apologize to the world for their stubborn stupidity, that was premised on religious, theological, ignorance. In the mean time these two genius’s were reduced as blasphemous fools
When the pope took such a hard backward stand on this issue, I wonder just who inspired such thinking. God must have been having a bad day when he advised the pope to stand firm on his ABSOLUTES.
Just wondering if you see anything that reminds you of that in this room?
Absolutes exist whether or not you believe. The early scientists used the fixed points of reference to see the rotation of the earth around the sun. The “Pope” used the Word of God as a reference point of his own interpretation (foolishly, because the written Word states plainly that it is “not of any private interpretation, but is discerned by the Spirit of God”) of fact. He was mistaken because of his own error of relying upon his “own understand”, even though he based his conclusion upon scripture, as it is written that the earth is the center of all creation in the universe. Who knew? Seek and ye shall find. From a concerned, faithful and obedient, Christian Republican.
That’s enough Rodin. It seems to me you are the one sipping too much Haterade.
Andrew
Really – what haterade would make me suggest that all people find a common base of respect for one another. Isn’t that the opposite of hate? Very sad that you want to continue your hatred and not accept that others may not have the same religion. Move to IRAN where you have to accept what the Ayatollahs say. Seems that’s what you want for America.
Rodin,
I do not pretend to know if homosexuality is a gene one is born with, a psycological thing or even a choice. I don’t believe in science, because their research is ever changing (ie. for many years they say eggs give you high cholesterol,then they say eggs don’t and they’re good for you). Who knows, and with us being a fallen people, it’s hard to say. I do know this though…we are all struggling with a reality we don’t want. I am very stubborn. I don’t know why, but I have always been that way. God’s word says we shouldn’t be stubborn, but that doesn’t change the way I am. My husband has a terrible temper. He has always been that way, even as a child. He was angry with everyone all the time, I have been living with abuse throughout our 12 year marriage. God’s word says we should love others as we love ourselves (by the way, he was suicidal as well, so what kind of love shall I receive if he doesn’t even love himself). We are all living with something, we are all infected. This is not something you have to live with though; this does not have to be your curse. I do not hate you for being homosexual; I love you because you are my brother. I pray for you, because I want you to go to heaven. You do not seem happy with your lifestyle. You are seeking acceptance, because you feel you have to live with being homosexual. It’s not your true desire though. It’s not anyone’s business what you choose. I’m letting you know there is love and support for you. Shame on the other posters that are being hateful to you. We should hate the sin, love the sinner. We are all sinners. Thank you Grandma for your love and support. Rodin, no one is better than you. I apologize for all the hate you have been feeling. Give God a chance, He loves you more than you will ever know.
Rodin, really? Seriously, don’t act like a nerd. How is it hateful that we don’t want to allow homosexuals to “marry” in the same sense that traditional couples do? It’s not hateful. Traditional marriage is between a man and a woman and it’s for procreation. Sorry, but homosexuals will never be able to procreate, no matter how much you fantasize about it. It’s not that we hate homosexuals, it’s that we hate the idea of the traditional family being bastardized by you liberal fanatics. I will never recognize a same sex couple as “married”. EVER.
Is that so hard to understand? If it is, you’re a moron.
Susan, there are a lot of heterosexual couples who will never be able to procreate, either, or who choose not to. Would you deny them marriage, as well, because they aren’t going to be procreating?
There is more to a marriage than procreation.
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B-man, Stand back. Shes on a rampage now. You didnt say anything hateful. Just pointing out their wrong makes them nutz. I think we all better keep our computers at arms length because she is so mad and spewing her hate for us that some of that spiddle coming out of her mouth might fly through the screen.
They are like little kids. They want something and you tell them no and why its bad and they have a hissy fit and throw themselves on the ground and say I HATE YOU I HATE YOU. YOUR SO MEAN. Its an irrational thought process they have and there is no reasoning because its all based on what they want without the care of what God thinks. Thats why they want a different system. One that doesnt show them their wrong.Sad for them that it doesnt matter how man changes God doesnt.
Sorry dudez. now there’s two of youze. Just because you both choose to live according to certain rules does not mean that those who choose not to should be deprived of their rights and freedoms. I fail to see how Ellen and Portia, or Elton and David, living together affect you. You’ll probably say something incredibly stupid like you want to protect your children from seeing it. However, all you’re doing is hurting your own children that have a one in six chance of being gay. It’s a whole lot easier and respectful to treat everyone with dignity and equality. I respect the fact that you don’t want to be gay and that’s fine you don’t have to be. But for those that don’t have a choice, why would you want to hurt them, they belong to your god as well.
You’re both unthinking hypocrites spreading the word of HATE and BIGOTRY.
blah blah blah blah blah blah you sound like a broken record!blah blah blah blah…………..
One out of every six ??? Hmmmmmm,Isn’t six the devil’s number? I heard it preached once that Jesus had 12 disciples, and one of them turned out to be a devil(Judas). So, you can figure on about one of every twelve people to turn out that way.
See Robin is the one that wanted to kill christians and she is saying we want to hurt gays. Never said I want to kill them or do anything harmful there sweetie. Again your wrong.
Well it’s pretty sad when you have to find approval from a celeberty. My hero is God and when he says it’s not an acceptable lifestyle choice and that he will not honor that. We have removed the TEN COMMANDMENTS from our lives which make life and how we live it pretty darn clear. This does not make me a hate person, it’s a guild for my life. Im always trying to achieve all 10 but im human. As long as I keep trying we will see in the end who stays up and who gets passed up.
Well since she brought it up lets use her examples of gay couples. First Elton himself joked about how many partners he had and how much fun he had. He has a partner now but has cheated on him. Lets say Melissa E. and her partner at the time Cindy had how many kids? 2-3, with the help of a man of course and then Cindy saw the light and found a man. Gays have less control keeping it in their pants then straight men. Most women make men work for it and pick and choose. Gay men will screw anything that moves. Theres tons of gay men who have so many partners its absurd and because of it all they brought us AIDS.Thank you. Now if they were all so into 1 or even a few partners it wouldnt spread like wildfire but alas it had. Heres a quote from the “Origins of Aids”
“The AIDS epidemic originated, as an at that time unknown syndrome, among young, well-educated, previously healthy, homosexual, mainly white men in Greenwich Village, south of Manhattan, New York in early 1979 (one patient was even retrospectively diagnosed in December 1978). The pattern of the epidemic was rather explosive. Within two years 80 patients had shown clear signs of a yet unexplained phenomen. In autumn 1980 the same pattern was repeated in Los Angeles and San Francisco. For all these three cities there was a common denominator. Young, healthy, educated, homosexual men were enrolled in a trial testing a new hepatitis-B vaccine. These trials started first in New York in November 1978 and in the Californian cities in March 1980. {1,2,3}
“The epidemic was rather explosive.” That in itself proves that gays have multiple to the 50 power partners which then spreads to the blood banks and Bi men and to the rest of us all. So right there yours and all the other just a partner or two, (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) is so wrong. Because of the perversion of gays you all have not only destroyed yourselves to the point people are dropping like flys in africa but to the rest of society. Thank you all very much.
B MAN AND 13TH GEN AMERICAN, A-MEN YOU GOT IT ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!!!
Be careful what you say. Your not allowed to speak the truth of God’s word, lest you be deemed a hater, by hateful people like Rodin. You see, in Rodin’s world, any word spoken against his thoughts and ways are hate. Yet he is so full of hate, just read the words he writes. According to him, everyone including God is wrong and he is right, and nobody else in entitled to have contrary thoughts to his, or to repeat the truth that God has set forth from the beginning of time. It is just unreal how some groups demand to be accepted, but these same groups cannot and will not accept any God fearing groups with God fearing moral thoughts. We are not allowed to have our beliefs, but they are theirs. Isnt this kind of hypocritical on their part. They can be, but we have no right to be. Amazing stuff.
OPPPS SPOKE TO SOON, AMEN TO YOU TOOO MARK
I have a 7th Amendmwent right!That means I can practice my faith and have the free excersize thereof.I don’t see the truth of God’s word as hate.Hitting them or name calling is murder in God’s eyes.So I don’t advocate either.But I know that God created Adam and Eve showing the truth right from the start.God ordained holy marriage.It’s not up for discussion about being available for two men and two women.
God has already stated their fate in1Romans18-32.
the bible is not hard to understand,their is NO grey areas when it comes to sodomy.if you do it then your doomed to hell,no two ways about it,PERIOD! the demons infesting a sodimate will have em LEAVE when confronted with the truth.don’t argue it with em,just tell em like it IS! truth is truth and that is as they say that!
I don’t know or care what the Bible says because it was edited by humans. I do know that the word marriage means taking two opposites and forcing them to work together. How will we use the word in describing cooking if its meaning is diluted by the notion of putting two same things together and having them work together. Big deal, that was easy; no disagreements because they taste/think alike anyway. Have your damn unions so you can suck down health insurance/public trough benefits like married parasites, but pick a different word.
Don’t have sex of any type in public and don’t debase language. And don’t imagine that Dick Cheney has any principles whatsoever other than those that serve him and his inner circle.
Hey Bruce, I know Cheney is a well informed person on the dealings of government and he says he is republican. Here is the problem, we must stand firm on conservative beliefs and laws. This once was the Republican party. You can’t believe parts of conservative values and then believe in other things that don’t follow the same. “ABSOLUTES” . We are not teaching our kids Absolutes anymore and if we don’t stand on our priciples, (popular or not) then we stand for nothing. No foundation, no future. We have a family member that is gay and we love her but we do not accept the lifestyle choice. We have talked many times and they respect our feelings because we respect theirs and do not judge. But we do stand on our beliefs and because we do they aggree that unions between each other is ok and they do not want to disrespect the value of Marriage in it’s correct context. They are choosing their lifestyle and come what may come in the end. We pray for them everyday.
B-Man, I understand what you’re saying and think you make a couple of valid points. Absolutes can be dangerous. If I only support and stand with people who absolutely believe like I do, I may find very few to stand with. Even though I can respect Cheney’s opinion on gay unions, I will never support it with my vote. This doesn’t mean he and I can’t stand together as conservatives and/or Republicans on the bulk of the important issues. I don’t believe we all think that much alike, even though we may consider ourselves part of the same conservative group. We will and do have differences. As a Republican or conservative, Cheney will be in the minority with his stance on gays, and he won’t win the point among that group. His opinion on that one issue doesn’t disqualify him from being a Republican or conservative. However, even with differences, I would rather stand with him and his conglomeration of viewpoints rather than with liberals. Members of my own family, who are all conservatives, have opinions that differ in a variety of ways, yet all our effort continues to be directed toward the overall rise of the values of being conservative.
Dick Cheney is also a sociopath who convinced Bush to go to war with Saddam on behalf of his daddy. Not only that but he used Bush’s moment of weakness to make millions of dollars by placing his company in Iraq to “rebuild” the economy. So your praise of Cheney truly scares me.
I actually sort of agree with you, (the sentiment not the facts) except Bush’s moment of weakness as you so eloquently put it lasted eight solid years.
That is a DNC & Kerry lie.
http://www.factcheck.org/kerry_ad_falsely_accuses_cheney_on_halliburton.html
Andrew, Haliburton had won the contingency support contract on a competitive bid during the Clinton administration. It’s a 10-year contract to support troops wherever active operations might break out. So, no, Cheney did not just conveniently stick his company in there with no bid, as the ignorant dupes of the mainstream media so often contend.
OK, Cheney has voiced his opinion, now he needs to talk about something else.
Why would you even think he has anything important to say…. We just went through 8 years of him f@#$ing up everything he touched. He’s flipflopped on everything and made billions of dollars of taxpayers for his corporation friends.
Really? Flip flop? Can someone say John Kerry? Dick Cheney did fine for 8 years, and his many years before that. As far as making billions of dollars of taxpayers Im not sure what that means. But I do know his party cut taxes and business like where I work were able to hire 35 more guys. Now that they are going away, your boy Obama and his tax monsters are in control, they have all gotten laid off. Millions are getting laid off, as business prepare to pay these huge new tax burden bills the dems have laid on them. Its a Fact. The only reason the economy slowed down Bush’s last year was everyone felt the election of the democrat tax monster coming, and business held back their cash just in case. I guess they were right. Now instead of spending this money on payroll and hiring more people and more production, they are spending it on taxes, so millions and millions are still losing their job. Cheney and Bush didnt tax, and they didnt give millions to their friends, ala Bill Clinton with his Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac collapsing the banks, making millions for his henchman Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelic. All true man, you cant change the facts. You can attack me, attack Bush, attack Cheney, but you know what, you cannot change the facts of History. We were kept safe, and still are until your boy Barrack undoes these safety nets Bush had in place, and he will undo them, just as Clinton before him did. More people were working in the US than anytime ever in history under Bush. Fact. Unemployment was at an all time low under Bush. Fact. So change history if you want, but those that see the truth, will find the truth. Those that seek to change history to hide their party’s failure, ie Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama, then they will lie and point a finger and place blame elsewhere. But the truth, are in these facts I mentioned. The truth will set you free.
I cannot believe how ignorant you are of economics…. First you say that everything would have been fine if Obama had not been elected and then you say that all the problems of the financial meltdown were caused by Clinton. Which one, either we were fine and wouldn’t have had a meltdown or Obama caused it and Clinton was OK too. At least make your stupidity consistent. Some of us actually understand how budgets and taxes and banking work and how bad things can get. Bush was advised by almost economist he met including the chairman of the federal reserve that the tax cuts he was putting forward would cause massive budget deficits and societal dislocations. He did it anyways. Try reading a book sometime…. and no… the bible doesn’t count. The FACT is that George Bush came into office with the biggest budget surplus on record and with his tax cuts and silly wars plunged the American economy into major debtor status that required a recession/ monetary devaluation to get out of. There are a lot of tools we have to mitigate the pain of what we have to face now, and by and large we will come out the other side in better shape. But make no mistake, a simplistic and rhetorical analysis as you provide above is worse than useless… it’s dangerous.
blah blah blah blah blah….blah blah blah
Obama claimshe’s a christian,but he just signed into law tax money to Mexico for abortion for unborn babies and he wants to promote gay rights,gay marriage.Believe me their were instances of gays hitting a preachers windows with hammers and calling up his wife and telling what deviated sex acts they would preform on their children.Now who’s the haters?!!!!
Why don’t you check out how much money Gore and Barney Franks has made. I don’t llike Cheney, but he has the freedom to say whatever he wants to. If you want to talk about someone that has flipflopped, you need to look at what Obama has flipflopped on.
I am a Democrat, but don’t agree with a damn thing that Obama has done.
Hooray!!!!!! Bravo. I like the last comment from Robert. Hello fellow Democrats, time to break away. If a man lost his freedom, taxed to the bones, someone dictates what you can do and can not do… time to break away, stay the course work hard to succeed. Some preachers do not follow what they preached such as killing Babies ( late abortion). Allow Gay marriage. Please kindly define marriage means. I am glad my Dad is a man and my Mom is a Woman otherwise; I don’t exist and so do you. Hey.. Do you think you got it made receiving all that free money from the government or defending everything from the government to take care of you… you are wrong because you are taxed to the bone as well, anything you buy is taxed. Do you know about the value added tax (VAT) Everyone will be taxed to pay the current administration trillions of dollars debt. I have some more to tell you but duh.. I am done. I stop listening to MSNBC, ABC, NBC. I rather spent my afternoon with FOXNEWS, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck. Laura Ingram is one of my favorite too. Attend the TEA Party in your area on July 4th. Adios.
Abe
Well whata ya know. A real Faulx News Tea bagger. Where are you from “Lenningsville” Indiana? Happy “Tea Bagging” with the Ho-Dunks
Im a Republican, but I cant really blame Obama for what they have done so far, or for what they are about to do. He is just the figurehead for the democrat party. These cats that decided what to do feed it to him, and its backfiring right and left, and as the American people get more and more fed up, which they allready are doing, these guys will take Barrack Obama and throw him under the bus to deflect blame from themselves. Mark my words. They cannot be held responsible for what they do, and will have to point a finger. They will point it at him to save their party’s face, dump him to the curb, and try to start again next time with Hillary or someone else. Just watch and see.
Mark, you’re right, Obama is a post turtle. Although I see the Democrat Congress giving him everything he wants. People are saying they were fooled by him, didn’t they listen to what he was saying during his campaign? He was scary then and he’s even scarier now. Leopards don’t change their spots nor tigers their stripes. Some of us said during the campaign that he had a hidden agenda and it’s coming out slow but sure, some of it so fast it’s bankrupting this country.
He’s also a “do as I say” person and doesn’t adhere to it himself.
To American Citizen, dont you find that all the dems are the do as I say type people? You know, like their glitzy hollywood friends like Barbara Streisand that fly across the country in their private jet, then hop into a gas guzzing limo, then stand on the podium in front of the environmental wacko supports and tell them we have to quit using fossil fuels. Seems she just burnt in a day what it takes me 5 years to do, but thats ok, its do as I say not as I do. Mr. Barry says we need to tighten our purse strings, then gives billions to the auto makers who have shown they dont have any idea of how to successfully run a business. They have been rampantly corrupted by greed and the unions for such a long time, and now they want our taxpayer money to bail them out from the bad decisions they have made. I got an idea. How about all those rich (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) that got millions of dollars in bonuses more than once over the years, throw some back in there. How about the union (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) that got paid to sit home and not work, throw some of it back into the pot. No, what do they do, they sell the guys down the road that allready met their part by working all those years, now they want to take thier allready earned pensions, so that they dont have to give up anything. Sorry, those guys are retired and GM should be forced to pay them what is owed to them, and these current workers should have to take a wage reduction down to 12 to 15 bucks an hour. If they dont want the job, leave. There are plenty of people that would like to have them. Barry hasnt a clue, so he blindly follows the left wing liberal pants wetting pacifist appeasers that todays Democrat party is, and we all get to pay for it. Yee Ha. Isnt it fun.
Why did God make Man AND Woman? Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?
IF Homosexual Marriage is ok—–why not let ALL law breakers out of jail?? Why not encourage stealing, telling lies, adultry, multiple marriage partners, or any other SIN?>?????
Where is the “Rule of Law”??????
Right on! Couldn’t have said it better myself!
You have been listening to Rush Blab too much
I hardly ever listen to Rush? It is what I believe.
I love that guy, he always speaks the truth. I guess thats why he has the most successful radio show going. There arent a lot of news outlets these days that talk the truth, only Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck. Good luck trying to get any truth from ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN and MSNBC. Everyone knows they are owned by the rich democrats, and they are the propaganda tool of the left wing pacifist appeasing pants wetting left wing liberals.
TRUTH SPOKEN !!! Fox is the only truth out there any more.
god didn’t MAKE man and woman!!! There are many different processes of procreation which different species evolved into. Some require sex with a different sexed partner, some have both sexual “parts”, some don’t require any sex and some can even “do it” with the same sex.
Just because you believe something doesn’t mean you’re allowed to create a set of hate rules for others that might not have the same belief…. or who are more likely just plain more intelligent and not willing to live their lives in adherence to a fairy tale.
Shes right. I think shes one of the ones that evolved from a (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).
Mr 13. Did you think that one up all on your own or did Tammy Faye help you.
No but I know Tammy, who loved gays but didnt agree with them and they loved her to, would be laughing too..
If we evolved idiot, what happened to our tails?
ROTFLMAO – I don’t know what happened to yours but mine is right where it belongs…. so are the horns on my head.
I assume you are the product of a Texas education.
they got rubbed off from all the butt bumping going on. Oh wait, gay men cant reproduce with each other. My bad, never mind.
Everyone, we can not critize. We can beleive what we want to beleive. God gave us options to choose what we want to become. In addition, it is up to us to choose what is just and non just. However, we will suffer consequences on our decisions that are made.
The topic is controversial. I will let my Heavenly Father, My shepherd, and My King to decide. When the diecisions are finally made, some will agree and disagree and some will cry.
Right now, let us be careful on what we choose and beleive.
So you think God didn’t create Man and Women? Funny how were you born and why can no man ever carry and give birth if your so right. There has never in any historical documentation been any information leading to a man having carried and delivered a 9 month old baby? I would like to know if you have an answer to this question that reflects the truth or whether it reflects your frustration. “What came first the chicken or the egg?
(I’ve never seen an egg lay a chicken)
Keep digging yourself deeper with your ignorance. The rest of the world can ignore the backwoods hillbillies and it probably won’t affect us too much.
Yeah right. A bird crapped on a rock and the sun fermented it and there we are. You keep calling everyone ignorant. You keep blaming everyone for hate. Dude you are all about ignorance and hate, with everything you say. Write what you want in response to this, but after this Im done with you, because I cannot argue with someone so blind that he doesnt even know that God created him in his own image. Believe all that other stuff you want, but you really think that if we evolved from a fish, for one, that with all the science today they could prove it, and two, why did some decide just to stay fish? If they spent 100th of what they spend on science trying to prove evolution, and spent it on researching creation and opening up these sites that are under guard in Egypt and Iran, and also revealed publicy about all these Biblical artifacts that allready have been found, there would be no question. However, satan is the ruler of the earth right now, and will be until the second coming, so its not going to happen. But the fact remains, you choose to be ignorant to the facts, and you are ignorant to others beliefs, thinking that only your beliefs count. You have proved this with your words in every post.
You want to believe in fairy tales…. I don’t give a flying f@#$. You can believe whatever you want. Just don’t try to push it on me. And don’t make me try to conform to some silly rules that you want to justify because your fairy godmother told you. You’re completely free to believe in anything you want…. I don’t CARE. That is not the issue. The issue is that you want to foist your beliefs on ME. That’s why we have individual rights. Both of us get to enjoy the same rights as the other while believing in whatever individual insanity we want to. ALL I’m saying is that WE HAVE TO PROVIDE EQUAL CIVIL RIGHTS TO EVERYONE….
Hey Mark, Love the passion ! Like I told Rodin, We will know the truth in the end and all I know is by and constantly trying to follow God’s principles, (trust me I make mistakes ) and begging for God’s forgiveness, I just don’t want to be grabbing an exhaust pipe when the bus is leaving. I hope Im on it and our goal is to bring one soal with us. I think we can bring more.
To B-Man: What Rodin doesnt get, is that we care for him and want the best for him. But he throws his hate and vile swearing at us, I guess he is unable to return the kindness. I dont need him to approve of my Christian life and ideals, but he seems to need to push the idea that I and you need to accept his. If we dont, we are haters and deserve his vile cussing out. I seek nothing from him, neither his confirmation, nor his cutting down and calling me names. I show him kindness, he shows me hatred. Yet I am the one he attacks. You and I both know it is our jobs as believers, haveing had the binders of satan lifted off of our eyes and ears, to spread the light into the darkness, that Rodin may have the wonderful life God has laid out for him. I hope he still gets it, and still has time. Many plan on doing it later, and never get that time. Either way, now or later, we all get to know Jesus, and are given what we asked for, whether life in eternity with Him, or a life separate from Him in a place where He will no longer bother you. We will get what we seek, so be careful of what you ask for.
I don’t seek anything from the haters, merely for them to stop punishing the 10% of the population that is homosexual. I’m tired of your justification for gay bashing. You can believe in whatever religion you want and profess to love whoever you want… Your christian ideals…. ROTFLMAO… you’re the first to justify the next gay beating or murder because after all they’re sinners… they deserve it. So if you want to continue bashing and hating in the name of your god, then I’m going to call you what you are.
Rodin,how is it that you can live in this country?If Christians are so hell bent on your destruction,then why havent you been irradicated from society?A majority of this nation claims to be Christian.Notice please that I said,”claims to be”.I said that because people who have claimed to be Christians have done some rather bad things throughout history.I do not dispute that fact.But there may be a difference between “claim to be” and really are.That is not for me to decide,nor is it so that excuses can be made.But people often mis-represent themselves in the name of an agenda,right?Let me give you a for instance.Healthcare is proportedly supposed to be a “right”,as used in context with Democratic policy.Yet it has been made mandatory by the President and his constituents that a person will be fined if they do not comply with the new law.Since when is a “right” something that is:A.mandatory,:B.something that you can be fined for not choosing to comply with?That does not make sense does it?That is a clear mis-representation of the term “right”.So since the agenda was to create a single payer system,the next best thing was to make it mandatory.This does not seem like they are looking out for my rights,but that they intend to bilk me out of funds no matter which way I turn.That is what the British crown was pushed out of this country for.Similarly,let us take note that if Christians or at least people who claim to be Christians,were out to get you then chances are you would get got.The fact is that Christian societies protect your rights to be who you are.They may disagree with your stance,but you cant argue that you are not treated much better than you would be in may other nations.Marriage is the act of combining two different parts.The plug and the socket.The hitch and the ball.Have you ever seen anyone marry two hitches together?Nope.The term marriage,as defined in the Christian Bible,is not one of legal importance.Rather it is one of design.For a man and a woman,are two different parts,and can be married together,to create children.So you see that you cannot marry two of the same parts together,physics deny you that as homosexuals.That is why you do not need to be “Married”.It is not the legal aspect that denies you but the practicle one that does.
Darwin renounced his theories on his deathbed.Then he came to JesusChrist.God is the creator but you refuse to listen to the truth.When you die ,you will go straight to God and Jesus.Because you rejected the Saviour,Jesus and din’t turn away from your homosexual lifestyle,you will go to a lake of fire forever to be tormented before Jesus and the holy angels.I warn you so you can repent and come to Jesusbefore it’s too late!
He also said “judge not lest you be judged” and only he knows the heart and will judge him justly, you do not have that ability or do any of us.
Sorry Dear, but if you go to that verse and read what is before and after you will see that it is taken out of context. To the contray he tells us to judge all things all through our lives all throught the Bible.
Are you just asking to be struck by lightning?You really are not too intelligent when you think we came from a puddle of ooze.I know who created me:God Almighty!I am fearfully and wonderfully made!
Just keep holding on to that thought. Doesn’t hurt me at all if you believe in whatever supreme being you want…. as long as you don’t use it to justify hurting people you don’t agree with.
Just one question dear Rodin. Be very careful how you answer this. Your answer could doom you for all eternity. It’s called “ blossomy against the Holy Spirit “ which is unforgivable forever. Are you denying Jesus Christ and God the Father and Holy Spirit? If you say yes I call you a liar. After reading your posts I see you striking out in hurt and anger. This is nothing but self preservation and is understandable we do the same when folks think we should change.. But I also read a need for Jesus. You want him but won’t admit it because you know what you would have to give up. But son, what you would be replacing it with is indescribable. Some of us haven’t acted very Christian here, but just like you, we are scared and angry too. We are losing more and more of our rights every day and you want what you feel ought to be your right and we all believe very deeply in our stands.
If you have time I wish you would go to site of men and women who have turned their backs on that life for the love of Jesus. They could offer all types of information and advice. I know you want to but you also love your life as it is. But please sweet Rodin. Think about this. In the mean time, in just a few minutes I will be on my hand and taking your name up to your Father. He’s been missing you. I know he’ll send you his love and hoping to hear from you soon.,, Blessing, Barb
Sorry Rodin. It’s called “ blasphmy against the Holy Spirit “ Can you tell it is wayyyy past my bedtime. Amd P.S. I have 2 nephews that are also Gay, So the subject is no stanger to me and we love them and they are very heavy on my heart too, Good-night Rodin. Sleep well/ Jesus still loves ya, And please don’t scold me. I would cry my heart out. I’m a cryer and I hurt easily too.
Denise, God doesnt use the lightning anymore for punishment. He throws you into the Clinton cabinet, isnt that punishment enough. You know, my mom used to say, “youll go to hell for lying”. But they changed that to. Now you go to the Clinton cabinet for that also.
blah blah blah blah blah blah….blah blah blah blah…blah blah blah blah….blah blah….
I’m still trying to figure out which law homosexuals are breaking and being kept out of prison for? You’re an idiot…. go home.
Just trying to save your soul. After all the fighting and the words back and forth in the end we will all know the truth. As awsome as the thought of eternal life sounds and as painful as our time here on earth is, all I’ve concluded is the words in the Bible are about love and to recieve Gods love and he has some rules to follow as a small token for us to enjoy Eternal happiness. The 88 books of the Bible have been around and not one book conflicts with the other, for almost 2000 yrs. It is the single most influetial piece on earth. I look at it this way. Nothing written in the Bible has harmed me infact its only enhanced my life and people around me and ” If I’m wrong, then I’ve only lost alittle time, But if your wrong, It’s going to be a big boo-boo.
This isn’t an argument for whether my soul is saved or not… it’s a societal debate about whether it’s ok for one group of Christofascists to intentionally harm another group and deny them equal civil rights.
I’m happy that you are comfortable with your belief system…. I’m very upset that you would use it to justify hatred and bigotry over others.
See see. I love it. She cant even wrap his brain around any of it. WE all get it but not them. I guess were hurting them by not agreeing with them. Not one of us has said we hate him or called him names like fag or dike or any of the names that imply bigotry but he has called Us a multitude of hateful names. What if the word Christofascists caused me great mental anguish? It does imply that I am somehow associated with the left with the fascist part. That name calling does cut me deep man. Like I live in a trailer and I have flees. It cuts me deep. OH and the redneck one. Thats painfull too. How do they know if I dont have a skin condition and it attracts flees? The pain of it all is to much. But in spite of it all were the hateful bigots. JUST because we tell them their wrong. They are so so sad. To be so far removed from God that the very words of truth of Gods words bring about such irrational and enraged response. Just remember its not us he/she is mad at. Its God. It is if Gods very words are convicting their soul and it actually does hurt for them to hear it. I guess the saying “The truth hurts” is most profound with gays. Just to repeat myself I have had a lot of gay friends and have gone out in groups of gay and straight and hung out and partied and had a blast. I talked about Christ and most of them were like whatever but once in a while one of them would get outraged like he was actually being set on fire. I guess the demonic influence was horrified that the words of Christ might actually have an affect and it wasnt about to let go of the person. Some of these gays are just so deep in sin and denial that its going to take more than a few strangers chatting to have them see the light a little. Remember too it shows were at least on the right path. Jesus did say we would be hated for his sake. Its just really sad to see the likes of roden and john.
Oh ya somewhere he goes on in a rant about not to tell him how he thinks of feels but he tells us in almost every comment how we think and feel. Whats that word???He uses it alot? OH YA Hypocrite.
Rodin, you just really don’t get it. IT’S ALL ABOUT SAVING OUR SOALS. That’s it period. We are only here on this planet with all of our skills, disadvantages, handycaps good bad and ugly to search out truth. God gave us a hand book and a history of his walk on this earth with lessons and examples to learn from so we can sit with him in Heaven. It’s not about doing what feels good or I want my rights. Everything in life of value and substance has a foundation and does not stand on sand. That is unstable just like questionable lifestyles.
But Gentlemen. I once heard an old x-marine pastor tell the sheep to.”go fishing for men but don’t beatem’ to death with the anchor.” Now go fishin’ in a new lake. We’ve beat this fish up pretty good, don’t ya think?
See, I see no where in here where you are causing him harm, or denying him civil writes, but that is what Rodin somehow pulls out of your response. How? Can you tell me how this works? There is nothing there. You tell him about Gods love and how the Bible is full of love, and he gets out of it that Christians are hurting an denying him, yet it is us, the Christian, that actually gets down on our knee’s and prays to our Lord Jesus Christ to reveal the truth to him, that he may walk upright in the light, and see and hear the truth, yet his life is revolved around hating everyone that is not like him. Its so sad.
My soul is fine thank you very much… and I’m perfectly fine with my god’s love. What bothers me is not that you say your god loves me but that after he loves me, I’m supposed to accept that some people can’t visit their partners in a hospital because they’re not legally married or that one can pay for insurance their entire life and their partner can be denied the benefits or that property can legally be entitled to pass to the other upon death, or that two people can register as a couple in a hotel on vacation without running afoul of local laws. There are over 200 similar secular “rights” that are completely denied to married lesbians and gay men. This shouldn’t happen in a respectful society where I and them are so well loved.
I have yet to be denied access to visit anyone in a hospital.I am not gay,nor was I related to or married to the people I visited in the hospital.If it is a question of contagion or endangering others,I am quite certain that I will be stooped at some point,but I have yet to be denied access to vist when I was present at a hospital.
Ok, lets put it so even you can understand.
1) 2 men cannot make a baby nor can they carry one.
2) 2 women cannot make a baby together
3) Nature (God) did create the planet and the enviornment in which
we live in with out doubt. Im not going into all the scientific reasons
how if even one tinny thing in our atmosphere was off, or that if the sun
were even 2″ closer we would be toast or all those things. Im sure you
think man created all this perfect harmony with nature and
rain and clouds and even how a forest needs natural fires to regenerate
itself. You guys are the end all to mother earth.
4) Because we all know the chicken came before the egg that God created
us to reproduce for his glory to come and sit with him for eternity.
5) That being said, he provided us with a book called the Bible which has
many testimonies, quotes, laws all and the story of his walk here on
earth to save us from sin ( from sin)
6) One of his very clear laws was homosexuality was an unacceptable
lifestyle and Rome was runining ramped with it. Were are they?
Because of their defiance with nature Africa has major issues, people
here have major issues personally and health issues. It’ not natural !!!
7) We have a set of laws written by great men who believed in what was
written in that book. They gaged their lives by it and wrote the most
amazing Constitution and Bill of Rights that is the envy of the world.
Why do think all these Religious nations are trying to kill us?
8) I had a friend in highschool that after we finished college we got together
and bought rental property and signed a contract and power of attorney
forms so we each could have access to our records. wow! how about
that. Oh my God! isn’t that amazing. Signed a power of attorney form
and we both have access to the books and the land and even ownership
upon one or the others death.
9) Marrage and the sanctity of the word itself and the natural state of nature
and how we all fit into the circle of life does not include 2 men and 2
women doing each other and then raising kids to think like that. I don’t
know how or why these feelings are in gays but I know that ripping apart
moral sociaty and confusing people with words like equal rights and
fairnesss, for a lifestyle choice,is just a stinking lie. Their lifestyle
preference ( and thats all it is) is un-natural and does not fit into natures
circle of life as normal.
10) And a final note: You keep saying that now that God loves me Im
supposed to accept that gays can’t share each others investment and
all the things Married people have. Guess what. Not under the sanctity of
Gods defenition of Marrage. We are a Christian nation by the
Constitution and the Bill of Rights. That is our heritage. Other countries
don’t follow Gods teachings so there are plenty of places to live that
lifestyle.
Not Here.
It’s abnormal to be homosexual.You are breaking God’s law.You think you’d be here if your Dad was gay?!!!
I think the world will continue to populate itself very nicely with the 90% of the population that is straight. I’m not too worried about ensuring that every last person on earth procreates every time they have sex.
You are in danger of hell fire if you call someone an idiot.You are judging yourself by the way.You think that under our government you have a right to any sexual perversion you like?No our preamble to our constitution is very clear where our rights came from:GOD!
I’m ok with your hell fire.. What I’m not ok with is your gay-bashing – you want to put people into different classes of societal worthiness based on your beliefs. Move to IRAN…. they have your theocracy. Ayatollahs rule!
Im trying to understand why you can call me a christofacist, and that is ok with you, and all Ive said is that God has rules we all are held to, and Im a hater? How does that work with you? How can you possibly justify calling me a christofacist, which is a hate crime in my book, and I have called you nothing, just trying to educated you to the point that one day, you, along with I and everyone else, get to give an account of ourselves to God. But why is it ok for you to hate on one group of people like this? Isnt that what I keep hearing you complain about, that people are hating on you because your ideas are different? You feel entitled to your beliefs and desires, and screw anyone who thinks different, and you are allowed to hate on them to your hearts content, yet nobody else is entitled to their wants and beliefs in your world. How stinking shallow can you get man. You want loved, you want accepted, then brother you better start loving and accepting those that are different from you also. By the way, that is a Biblical thing you know, to reap what you sew. To do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Maybe that is why it seems you are under attack by certain groups, when you refer to them as chistofacist? Well, you reap what you sow, so get over it.
I will answer each of your questions. First of all the term Christofascist is not one of hate. It is a simple fact. Regardless of whether you are Christian, the fact is that you would IMPOSE your morality on others, irrespective of their beliefs. That makes you fascist – hence the term Christo-fascist. Not hate… strictly FACT.
I have not shown any hate. I have not expressed any desire to take anything away from you. I have not indicated you should be treated as a 2nd class citizen in society. These are what you and your friends are advocating. I am perfectly fine letting you believe in anything you want to and supporting your right to believe in it, as long as you don’t advocate hurting others, which you are.
You can have all your own desires and live your life the way you want… and you and I will never have a problem, until you decide to fight against one group of the population because you consider them sinners. Their sin, your sin… I dont care about sin…. what you need to do is stop hating and hurting homosexuals. I certainly am not out to take any of your rights away except if you believe you have the right to IMPOSE your beliefs and morals on somebody else.
So then…when the child molester,or the person who engages in beastiality decides they have their rights too,then we should let that form of prversion thrive in our nation by law as well?Is that what you are claiming?Yes by all means let us take everyones claims of sexual deviancy to the task.we have to decide whether there is a right way of doing things or there is a left way of doing things.What the left doesnt understand is that they will be used as pawns in a game just as was done in previous history.Then when they think they have won the day,they will be subjected to their own”Night of the Long Knives”by the same folks they protested side by each with.Yes,you can hate Christians,and line up next to Muslims thinking that they will support your cause my leftist rubes,but dont be surprised when you find yourself next to a Christian who is willing to die for you as a fellow American.We dont call that by a fancy name like “martyrdom”,we just call it love.
It seems to me Rodin seeks to impose his life style upon me, where he wants special treatment and special rights. No where did I try to impose “My” morality on you. I exposed you to Gods truth which you undoubtedly reject, but it isnt my morality. Its Gods, he said it, not me. I trust Him and believe in Him and his words, but I aint the guy that made the rules, and I aint the guy that enforces the rules, and Im surely not the guy who will pass judgement one day on the rules. Ok, lets get that straight. You seek to take from me my right to define Marriage as a man and a woman. What do you benefit? What I benefit is this – Paul said it is better for us to be like him, which was a virgin. But he said, if you cannot control your desires, than you should get married, where God has placed His blessing on a man and wife to be fruitful and multiply. We are born with the desire to have sex, God created it, its great, and the Bible is full of instruction on abstaining from sex until marriage, and hey, I did that. Now ok, I understand your saying you want equality and want to get married to, but when God says what he says about same sex unions, maybe its me dude, but I have a hard time reconciling that he would bless that marriage, no more than he would bless mine if I was running around with other women. It would defile the marriage, and it would be reduced to nothing but a piece of paper, and I do agree with your earlier accessment that a lot of heterosexuals have screwed things up, and yes they have clearly defiled the act of marriage, severely, so severely. But again, I didnt write the Bible, I didnt make the rules, I just try to abide by them, and its hard sometimes, real hard. Some of you think that being a Christian were supposed to be perfect. Right, good luck with that. Were sinners, just flesh and blood. Some think that being a Christian that life is easy now. Nope. Satan kicks up his attack on a Christian married couple more than on anyone. Hey if he takes us down, he gets a two for one cash in. I just know who to turn to when the temptation comes, and only Jesus Christ leads me through the day. I dont impose my morals on you, and I havent. Ive just told you what God says about things, and you my friend can accept them or reject them, and I fully support your freedom to do so. I wouldnt force you or anyone else to do anything. I cant change anyone, only a relationship between God and man can change the way we view things. Thats it. So please stop looking at me as the enemy, because it isnt me, and it isnt God.
Homosexuality isn’t a civil right.It’s a sexual preference!
Every court that has ruled on this issue to date has not come to that conclusion. California changed their state constitution and then the court supported it but not before and the US court has never ruled on and if they ever do and find it a civil right then California’s will be voided.
blah blah blah…at least you kept that goofy rant short…blah blah blah
Multiple marriage partners are not forbidden by God. Solomon had many wives plus over 700 concubines. Our damn government bureaucrats came up with that law.
Ah yes Mr.Klein,but you nust make sure that you tell the rest of the story.Solomon did what was evil in Gods sight.His many wives turned him to Idolatry and led him away from what he was told to do by God.God promised him that the nation would be divided if he went that route.He did,it was,the rest is a matter of Biblical proportion.You see sin may not effect us in the afterlife if God has forgiven us,but there are consequences to every sin that we commit.Some of them may be down the line in our lives,but
Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Every civilization has endorsed this truth. It is a covenant in blood. The first man and woman (Adam and Eve) sinned, a covering of animal skin (the first shedding of blood) was placed upon them. God proclaimed their union “very good” and performed the first marriage ceremony before witnesses, God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
When a man and woman consummate their vows through intercourse, blood is shed within the womb. Children are born in water and blood.
Gays can not reproduce. It is unnatural and against the Laws of God.
I respect the former, VP and his daughter. I believe that if people want to have a commitment/union – call it whatever; anything but MARRIAGE which is elevated to a higher position giving humans a share in divinity by the power of creating another human life. It is sacred and not up for grabs but those who profess alternate life styles. They can do their thing and share each others company, time, wealth, etc….but MARRIAGE and its rights must be kept unmarred by anything other than what is has been defined as throughout all of time…. ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN.
Your post is sure cannon fodder for the rest of us.
Lets take your post point by point.
If Adam and Eve had not sinned then this would have been a nudest camp. Seems sinning was the only they got clothes.
“When a man and woman consummate their vows through intercourse, blood is shed within the womb.”
OK that means there is no such thing as the “CONSUMMATION of marriage to those who are not virgins.
NO CONSUMMATION-NO MARRIAGE. (“Gays cannot produce”) OK that means reproduction is the only way marriages are honored by God. IN THAT CASE every marriage which does not produce a child is mute. It is not a marriage. OK lets “null and void” every marriage that has not produced a child or at least until they do.
I and my 3 siblings were adopted, but that doesn’t count any more than the WONDERFUL GAY folks that are adopting children every where. I guess my parents were not married all those 61 years.
(“I believe that if people want to have a commitment/union – call it whatever; anything but MARRIAGE which is elevated to a higher position giving humans a share in divinity by the power of creating another human life”) YOUR WORDS.
Quite frankly SUSAN we could give a big ca-hoooot what you want to call it
the bottom line is we want legal equality. We’re tired of not having the same rights
all 1000 of them you have.
Gay folks do not want their marriages defined by a bunch of hypocrites who marry and devorice time, and time, and time, and time again, that break homes devide siblings, have kids out of wedlock, abandon them, and scream like hell when gay couples adopt them, and give the best life they could have ever had.
Thats the stupidest point by point to get your point across I ever heard. Gays,and I know alot of them, on whole dont stay with one person either. Especially the men. Yes there are a few who do but come on now . You can cry and carry on like little kids not getting what you want but if its wrong its wrong. Many gays break up and what happens to the kids? And that whole blood shed consummation thing just made me laugh out loud so thanks for that. You have face God just like the rest of us and I hope He lets us see all you argue this point with him. And of course all gays give the kids the best life they ever had. OK so you all are perfect and the rest of us are all hateful hypocrites. ONE big problem with your theory there pal. Without all us people having kids and destroying them and throwing them away, where would you get yours???It seems to me you need a MAN and a WOMAN to have babies. So without GODS most wonderful plan that yes we screwed up there would have been about 4 naked people on earth before human kind died off if your way of thinking is so right. Mr Cheney has a daughter that is gay and a parents opinion can be swayed by love and emotion. We dont hold that against him.
On a side note if you dont agree with us its OK and you all are just enlightened perfect people. But if we dont agree with you we are hypocrites, hate mongers, stupid and mean and God is wrong. You all prove to the rest of the world with your point by point craziness and hate filled rants just who the hypocrite are.
Go for it 13th, some make you want to laugh and some make you want to cry, people will hear, see, believe, just what they want to, No amount of reasoning will change that. God gave people free will, and they sure it. These blogs go to show how much hate there is in the world. It will sure be hard on the ones that hate so much at the end. Love is the only thing that we really have that keeps us sane. Freedom and equality is only provided by love, and as Jesus said, even a sinner has love for his own. We should love our enemies and pray for them, that some day they will see the light,. but it will take God to do that for them. God bless you
Here comes Peter Cottons Tail,
Poppin round the Bun-Bun Trail, YEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
13th Gen. American
YOUR QUOTE
June 5th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Having a progressive administration allows for any body to do anything they like as long as it gets them votes. Every one does deserve to be loved. Go love whoever you want. Just dont justify your actions by making it legal. We dont care about property values. We care about moral values and your way of life and thinking being an infulence to our children. Do whatever you want but dont force it on us to accept it as right when its not.
YES, old trailers don’t have much value no matter what you do to them.
You don’t have to accept anything. But don’t think it’s not going to be legal.
Six states down 44 more to go. There is just no stopping us. Now go back to your trailer, and for Gods sakes get all those dead cars out of the front yard.
He pleads the point that gays can raise children at least as equally lovingly as straight couples, that he is tired of being discriminated against and hurt by all the ignorant bigots out there…. and how do you respond…… by more of the same bigotry and hate. You have no respect for your fellow human beings, you have no capacity to live according to the faith you espouse, essentially you’re bullying hypocrites. And Poppy, WTF was that… are you seriously still in 3rd grade. I understand Mr 13, because he has a lot of hate and probably never emotionally progressed in life, but if you’re going to debate something try to make a reasonable point.
blah blah blah blah blah…..(long winded rant!) blah blah blah blah….
When we do make a reasonable point you dont get it and all you can say your spewing hate. You will never get a reasonable point because nothing you have said is reasonable.Your thought process is on the same level as a small child not getting what she wants. You just have the same rant over and over that if we dont agree with you we are the haters and bigots but it is you with your own hateful words that have proven to us all what you are. Why cant you accept us and let us live and think what we want and live in peace with us? Cant do it can you. You can dish it but you cant take it. Do whatever you like. You have to answer to God just like everyone else but your delusional rants wont work on him either.
This truly does amaze me. I never once spoke a word of hate about it, told the guys that allthough I dont accept this lifestyle, and provided the scriptural verses to show why, and allthough I have clearly stated that I have never hated on a gay, or chastized them, or castigated them, but just treated them as I do anyother human being. Then those like Rodin come back with calling me a hate filled hypocrite and everything else. So I agree with you, as to why they want, demand and need all this special treatment, to be put on a pedestal and given special treatment to make them feel better, but I am slammed on, called a hater, called a hypocrite and am not allowed to have my thoughts, feelings, or preference’s even stated. Another case of the double standard that so many groups cry for. They want accepted, and make a total spectacle of it, shoving their way down everyones throats, yet nobody is allowed to have an alternative way to their way. Sorry, I will reserve my right to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, and I will reserve my right for both myself and the gays and all other walks of life, to all have our day of judgement bowed before Jesus Christ, to give an account of ourselves. I dont make the rules, they dont make the rules, but the one who does gets to make the final call. I believe that to be pretty fair, and if one takes issue with that, then strap on the boxing gloves and go a few rounds with God, but your arms arent going to be long enough. I guarantee it.
to 13th Gen,America:
But Gentlemen. I once heard an old x-marine pastor tell the sheep to.”go fishing for men but don’t beatem’ to death with the anchor.” Now go fishin’ in a new lake. We’ve beat this fish up pretty good, don’t ya think?
Statistically gay couples have more split ups and violence than true marriages. Anger is very evident in gays as well as a get even attitude.
That is such BS
Regardless of the truth of your statement…. how is it relevant to ensuring equal rights.
blah blah blah….
The blood shed thing came from and was a quote from your friend Susan.
Maybe you should read more.
Ya know THE most funniest thing. Every time they call names one of the top 5 is “trailer park” related. Well I met the nicest gay couples and hung out with them for a bit and youll never guess where they lived….Yep thats right. In the trailer park. I myself live in a nice upper middle class neighborhood thank you. Redneck is a big one for them. Went to a gay picknick and it was in PA. BIG party. Guess where alot of them were from….Yep West Virginia. Guess what too. There were 3 roomates. 2 of them have known each other since high school(slept with each other) and for about say 25 years they keep a running count as to who slept with the most people. Last I heard about 7 years ago it was pushing 300. Thats three hundred!!!!! One of them had a son. I thought they were the nicest people. I hung out with them alot for quite a few years till the one died of…..yep you guessed it, aids. So all this bla bla bullshit of how they ALL want to be married is just so ridiculous. Yes it will be the entire country will be all for gays getting married and killing babies and every perversion under the son. ONLY because God said it would. Its all in revelations.You all think your all so self righteous because your changing the laws and america by making it progressive. You only are doing it because God is allowing it to happen to bring upon the second coming of Christ. People like the conseritives are trying to keep it from happening so soon because no matter how shitty life can be it is still a most wonderful ride on this planet we have. We have eternity to be in heaven with God because of Christ. We only have but a moment here and were trying to make the most of it. Thing is, The rest of us have to suffer for your sins and the sins of our leaders. I dont know how long we have left but Pray mercy and blessings on those of us who havent turned our backs on Christ. No body is perfect and none of us get out of here alive but Ill not let my family suffer the same fate as Lot if I can help it.
john S….no matter how much love you feel for your “man” having sex via the rectum where stool is excreted…is not NATURAL or NORMAL!!!
And I am a Christian and I want equal rights, that when someone like you unleashes vitrial hatred towards me, I want the same right you have, that it be considered a hate crime and you go to jail for it. If you want equality, it has to be this way all around. I am totally against hate groups, whether it be gay-straight, black-white, anything. But why is it everyone is allowed to perform hate crimes on the Christian, and we are not afforded the same rights as gays and blacks when someone perpetuates hate upon them. These people should be punished for this, and rightfully so. So should gay groups when they openly assault Christianity. It is no different. Stop hating on me. While you spend your time hating on me, I spend mine praying for you, not that you will become like me, because Im not any better than you. But praying that your eyes and ears will be opened to the truth, because brother, my eyes and ears were closed for 40 years, so I know what its like to be in the dark, and I know what it is like to be in the light. It isnt something my grandmother told me, or a fairy tale as a guy named Rodin calls it. When you receive Jesus Christ, its not an earthly thing, one of the world could possible understand. It is a God thing from the spiritual realm, that I never understood either, like I said for 40 years. I do understand now, and I do see and and hear and believe me, I didnt before. I did a lot of disgusting and vile things in my past, but at the time I was doing them, Id never have admitted to it. No way, no how. I see my old self in Rodin, and its a heartbreaker man. I had so much pain and didnt even know it, and I caused a lot of people a lot of pain. I have been delivered from these demons, and the heavy burden of sin that weighed me down has been lifted, and Im here to tell you, because Ive been there, until you receive Jesus Christ, youll never know how good life can be, and what the truth is.
Thanks for your thoughts Mark, but I don’t hate extremist bigotted Christians, I merely want to protect myself from them. They’re the ones that cast the first stone by denying rights to those they don’t like. I’ve never denied any Christian any of their rights. They can do as they please as long as they don’t try to hurt others.
And I’m very happy you’ve found your own spirituality, but it appears you still retain a lot of your darkness in the way you vilify gays and their lifestyles. If that’s your Jesus then I think he’s changed a little in the last 2000 years. Maybe you need to go back and learn his love instead of imagining his hatreds.
and again!,blah blah blah blah blah….blah blah….blah blah…blah blah……
Rodin, you are extremely wrong on this. Jesus hasnt changed a bit over time. He is the same God of old, never changing, ever loving. He loves you, but dont expect Him to change His views on homo-sexuality. It was decided at our creation that it was to be man and woman. It was decided that it was and is an abomination to Him for a man to sleep with another man like like he would a woman. Dont kill the messenger. I dont make the rules, and I dont enforce them. Im a sinner that breaks them time to time, and believe me I try not to, but Im human, I do. But I do know what is right from wrong, and I do try and I have changed much about the way I live my life and carry myself and the things I do. But I dont expect God to change the design of His things to fit my lifestyle or choices. It is clearly me that needed and still needs change in areas. But no. God clearly HAS NOT changed since then. He is the same God.
Ive probably said enough in all my posts here, but one more for the road. John, its like this man. Its an exit chute. Its mean for exit only, on both man and woman, its an exit only orifice. To want to shove your willy in it is perverted, and with your own sex, its demented. Sorry dude, just the facts.
Mark you have an inordinate interest in what other people are doing with each other. Chill and worry about where you place your own (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).
blah blah blah blah….
whoops ………… can I offer some words to put in your mouth?
Mark
exit only, really, my wife loves it, never thought of her as perverted, it sure makes her happy
are you sure that she isn’t faking it?
Come on Smiley, who else but you would come out and post that. Thanks a lot man. I was just getting to where I thought Id like to sit down and have a beer with you, and bam, there you go. Why you do me like that bro?
The gay lifestyle is perverted sex.It doesn’t honor anyone and especially God.To promote this evil as okay is going to bring down America.Wealth comes from God.Food comes from God.Water comes fromGod.You won’t survive very long without those if God does away with all three.
We’re not hypocrites!We’re stating a God given truth!If you want to argue with God go ahead.But in the end you’ll lose!
Denise – you can believe in God all you want… you can believe every word in the many books of the old testament and follow that up with the new testament. You can branch into Islam, maybe get into some of the teachings based on newer prophets….. I don’t care. We as a pluralistic society of many different peoples have to set up rules so we can all live together respectfully. Unfortunately, you would have us create a theocracy where Christian priests set up all the rules and everyone was a second class citizen. That can’t work.
What can work is if we all realize that everyone has the right to be who they are, believe in who they choose and be granted all the same rights as everyone else. That way everyone gets to meet their own god (or not) and HE or SHE can figure out how good they were. So please just chill and stop telling me how God doesn’t like gays. It doesn’t matter in this argument!
rant rating:8,blah blah blah blah blah….
American Patriot, I admire your desire for peace and unity.
But sometimes, you just have to admit the truth. ON THIS ISSUE, WE ARE NOT UNITED.
And in this issue, the HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY HAS BEEN THE AGGRESSOR by
trying to redefine the Sacred Union of MARRIAGE into something it is not and something that GREATLY MOCKS AND OFFENDS MANY MANY PEOPLE OF FAITH !! You cannot just take something that so many hold to be SACRED and desicrate it’s meaning and not expect to bring anger and condemnation upon yourself.
If I spit on a Muslim’s Koran (and I never would)- would I not deserve his anger and outrage.
The homosexual community has spit on marriage – and acts shocked by the anger THEY have provoked.
Marriage has certainly been held to be the SACRED union of a Man and a Woman in the presence of God – by the Judeo/Christian community for OVER 5,000 YEARS. Think about it. You’re attacking what many believe to be the most basic pillar of civilization – and that belief has been held for OVER 50 CENTURIES. We believe Marriage and the traditional family unit (in as much as it can be lived) to be the basic building blocks of civilization ! If peace and love and unity can be nurtered in the family, it can grow elsewhere. Having a LOVING father AND mother is the most beneficial environment for a child to grow up in. If one parent leaves the family and the other single parent must raise the child, well God bless them and help them to do the best that they can. God is Good, so He will. But we, as a society can still aim for the ideal – BOTH: A LOVING MOTHER AND FATHER.
Gays want to adopt children. Read the previous post above this one. That is one of the main reasons they want to receive all and any rights that a legally married couple has.
And if we, as a society, say OK ? What are we saying ?
We’re then actively destroying the above ideal.
We’re saying, “a child doesn’t need a mom. Mom’s are unnecessary.”
Two men are just as good. What are we doing to that child by forever denying it the love of a Mother. And then that child will be pushed into the homosexual lifestyle.
There are many, good and loving married couples (mother + father), who are waiting YEARS, to adopt a child. There is no lack there of.
But the homosexual is not content to ‘just’ destroy the meaning of Marriage, he wants to also redefine the word family.
To attack those ideals is wrong.
To try to redefine them is a SACRILEDGE TO PEOPLE OF FAITH.
You, yourself, may not believe in God, and that is your right as an American. But my right as an American is to speak out with anger when someone wants to take what I hold as HOLY and SACRED and wants to piss all over it. Excuse the language, but it best defines what they are doing.
THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY GLEEFULLY DESICRATES WHAT IT KNOWS TO BE SACRED AND REVERED BY SO MANY . . . . AND THEN ACTS SHOCKED WHEN IT RECEIVES SUCH STRONG ADMONISHMENT AND ANGER
If you want to live together – go do so, few will bother you.
If you want to call it BY ANOTHER NAME – go do so, few will bother you.
But when you wish to redefine the most basic fabric of our society – marriage and the traditional family – YOU are the one picking the fight.
Make no mistake, WE weren’t the ones to start this.
I pray that people who read this will understand why this is such an important issue and why the majority of people in this country feel so stongly about Marriage being firmly defined as 1 MAN + 1 WOMAN.
Hey Josh, I can’t argue with you on any points you have made. it is as it is. I don’t like being around those people myself. I personally think that they are a sick and disgusting group of people. Catholic Priest’s attacking young children in the church? That was not the church! That was sick “VILE” homosexual’s that were attacking those young children. And, then what made it even worse yet was the Catholic church trying to sweep it under a rug by hiding those people that molested those children. And, I am sure that it is still going on to this day somewhere in our world. and, by the same people. So, yes! I can’t argue with anything that you said. I have to make a point here while we are on the subject of church. It is so watered down in terms of content these days. It’s not even funny. I myself had to get out of that environment. I could see this coming many years ago. I would not allow myself or my family to be a subject of such behavior in our lives. at the same time, I would not give into hating these people. Just their lifestyle. It is not normal. No matter how they might try to water down and convince the world otherwise. They must realize that with every action. There is equal reaction. Yet, They still try and push people into their sick world of depravity. That goes for the church as well. But, not all the people in the church. I’m sure that I will get some flack there on that statement. But, If a person is really honest with himself/herself, They will see that there is a lack of many things that should be in the church. But, “is not”. By their fruits, Ye shall know them. weather it is good or bad. The Gift’s? Remember? The greatest is “LOVE” And, That my friend, is “not” an easy one to grasp/embrace. So, In my mind. A peaceful and quiet resistance is in order. If, the so called Christian’s would stop with the Holier than thou attitude with the T-shirt wearing their religion like a cheap cardboard sign posted on a fence for all to see. And, get back to the basics. then maybe things will turn around for the better for all of humanity. And, as far as the “GAY” people. Let them continue with their hateful attacks. That will only turn more and more people against them. We can stand our ground. And, yet still be loving. It’s all about getting back to the basic’s. Our world history has shown us this time and time again.
Amen. I respect that as human beings we are not perfect, and are subject to sin. I fall quite often. I know that being a homo is a sin, or it would not be written : “for a man to sleep with another man as he would a woman, is an abomination to the Lord.”. Sorry, its wrong, its a sin, and its a perverted thing. When I get angry and swear, its sin. One isnt worse than the other, just a sin is a sin. Robbing someone is a sin. Cheating on your wife is a sin. Murdering someone is a sin. Since all these fall under the sin category in the Bible, why is the government dictating that its ok for gays to marry? What happened to the separation of church and state? You cant have it to rule in favor of the Bible, so you certainly cant have to to rule against it either. How can you take an unholy union, and call it a holy union under God’s eyes. What God has brought together, let no man part. Oh yeah, I forgot they can take God out of everything, because according to them He doesnt exist. What a mess we have made out of society, that men dont even know they are men, and women dont know they are women. Where did we get so far off track? I dont gay hate, or gay bash, and I dont believe in it. But I guess it is just not a normal thought process for me, to go to the beach, and see some guys hairy butt, and think “oh yeah, Im not leaving until I get to know that”. Where does that come from? Holy crap man. Its just not the way God designed us, and yes, I can say that, and yes, I do know that. When I accepted Jesus Christ as my saviour, my eyes and ears were opened, and I do know right from wrong. Deep down inside we all do, but we just chose so much to do the wrong thing. thats the way it is.
Good for You. God only joins His children in marriage, and if one of His children marry outside of the family of God, He will honor that marriage. But all that are unsaved are not children, just part of the creation. You became a child of God when you accepted Jesus Christ. You may email me if you want to.
No, I think we are all Gods children. He made us all. Its just that we all cant share in the inheritance of heaven if we choose not to have Christ as our savior . We all sin and come short of the glory of God. A christian just knows he aint getting there on his own merrit and knows Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Its a free choice to take that gift or not. We are all given the same choice. He loves us all. A person can love all his children but if there is 1 that is rebelous and sinfull the parent can cut him out of the will and he doesnt receive the inheritance that would have been his if he chose to live his life different. God does love us all but if we do not choose Christ we are cut off from the kingdom of God and the inheritance of eternal life with Christ. Also the devil does have run of the place down here and he defends his own and keeps them deceived. Thats why the more we take God out of our society the more control Satan has over it and people and the less freedom Christians will have. I may never meet any of you here on earth but I will look for you all in heaven. Who knows. If we pray enough together for Roden and John maybe we will see them there someday too.
Well said and “Amen”
To 13th, I would like for you to read 1st Corinthians 7 vers 12 – 17; very carefully
Ya that talks about marriage. You said they are not his children just a creation. We are all equal and loved by God. Jesus died for ALL of us. Gay straight liers cheaters murders.etcetcetc. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Right but then, The most important one of all. Most known John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believeth in him shall have ever lasting life. :17 For God sent his Son not into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him may be saved.
I think the words whosoever and world pretty much means everyone. We are given a choice. God gave us all life but through Jesus we have ETERNAL life. The gays are not less human or loved by God. They are just rebelious and have chosen not to believe or follow what he says. Some times I choose not to the right thing but Im not going to justify it by saying its OK . The only real difference between a christian and not is we’re forgiven through Christ and we have that eternal life.
13th, you completely missed the point, yes Jesus came to save ( The world) and all that is in it, only people have that choice. But the point is that Paul said that if at least one was not of the family of God, meaning being saved, that their children would be bastards. And in that case that means that they are not of the Father.
Well Mark, you seem to be equating sin with secular crime. I’m not going to be comfortable with that. Societal and civil penalties belong only to the crimes judged to affect the well being of all of us, including those that don’t follow your own scripture or interpration. You say that murder and stealing are sins, fine, they’re also civil crimes. Adultery a sin… fine in your world, but there’s no way I’m going to stone a woman to death over it. Covetting thy neighbor’s wife… I mean hey she looks really good, but you can’t send somebody to jail for having illicit thoughts… You want to masturbate and feel guilty… that’s your perogative and maybe the guilt is part of the pleasure for you. What I’m saying is there is a difference between sin and crime. If you want to equate the two then I hear Iran and Saudi Arabia try to do that very well.
Sorry pal. A sin is a sin is a sin. Some are crimes, you are correct. But in Gods eyes, not mine, not yours, a sin is a sin is a sin. This comes from reading His word, where it is pretty darn clear on this stuff. One can try to justify their sin, but it doesnt work. I believe thats why it is written “there is a way to a man that seems right, but it is the way of death.”
Mark I dont know why you’re apologizing but you basically paraphrased what I said. Sins are for god to sort out, not us. We can only mete out punishment for crimes. So, be happy knowing that your god will sort everything out on judgement day and let the rest of us live in peace.
rant rating:6,blah blah blah blah blah….blah blah…
Wow, got a question for you Mark, if a sin is a sin and you fall often are you telling us that you are not different than any gay person?? Many of us believe the gay’s sin is of no greater than any of ours and that is why we see them as equals. It is separation of church and state not Bible and state, there are churches/religions who do not use bibles as their spiritual law, remember the Koran etc. The constitution is silent on marriage and to date all the state governments that have ruled on this have found it unconstitutional and so did California until their constitution was changed. The US Supreme Court has never addressed this issue and if they do and agree with the states then gays will be able to get married but that will not mean your church have to honor that just the states.
Exactly. I am the same as any hetero or any gay. Exactly. We are all the same. We all are sinners that fall short of God’s grace. It is a gift He gives us, not something that we deserve. I am no better than any man or woman that walks this earth, so dont think that because someone is a Christian that they feel that way. Quite contrary actually. We know we fall short quite often, and that we are not better than others. In fact, if someone purports themselves to you as a Christian, then tells you they are better than you, then I would have to say that person is either a hypocrite or a liar. While it is true, that we Christians may be better off than you in Gods eyes, having accepted His Son Jesus Christ as our Saviour, but it does not make us better. We are all still walking here on this earth made of flesh and blood, and we are all fallen men, born into sin from when Eve tempted Adam to eat the fruit from the tree he was forbidden to eat from. Since that day men were sentenced to work all their days, and women were sentenced to experience pain during childbirth. All a part of the fall of man as witness in the Bible. But no, I am not better than you, Im not better than a gay man, Im not better than anyone. In the end I may be better off, but for now, no, I am not nor do I think of myself as better.
Mark
You did so well until you made this statement “While it is true, that we Christians may be better off than you in Gods eyes,…” and made the assumption that this Christian may not be as worthy as yourself in God’s eyes, this contradicted many of your other statements and made them appear hypocritical . Christ said Judge not lest you be judged. We would all be better off if accepted everyone as God’s children even the gays as many of them claim to be Christians too. When it became legal in Iowa twenty from my area (a large metro area) went to Iowa to get married and all were married in a church by a pastor. Not all Christians believe as you do and do not judge others by their sins including gays. Therein lays
our dispute you seem to feel you can, and you feel it is OK to make laws to force your feelings and beliefs on others because of their sins whose sins you refuse to accept and to not accept them just as they are and leave this matter between them and God. I think God will bless for accepting his gay children and treating them as anyone else. Remember the golden rule “Love the neighbor as yourself” If you treat him/her, the gay person in a mean spirited and hurtful way are you loving your neighbor as yourself? I think not.
“While it is true, that we Christians may be better off than you in Gods eyes,…”
Question for ya “Smilee”; ……….. Are you the only one really ‘smiling’ @ your house?
“MARRIAGE” as you call it was not even a Christian concept…. People did not start getting officially married to one another for many centuries after Christ. READ your F!@#ing history. Marriage was a CIVIL mechanic created to register the union for CIVIL puposes. Even now most of our legal and tax systems recognize a marriage as a separate entity from the individual…. for CIVIL purposes only. I have no problem with anyone also wanting to perform religious rituals around the union, but as far as legislation goes, the law and fairy tales are separated.
Why can’t you get the truth.In the Bible are God’s words ordaining holy matrimony.
Maybe, but marriage in our secular society, is a registration with the state, and legislation refers to couples registered under state laws, with rights accorded to those registered under state law. I’m not here to take away any of your rights under god, I’m only here to ensure that the rights accorded under state laws are applied fairly to those that don’t buy into your fairy tale religion. Atheists get married to.. so do Buddhists and Taoists and Muslims…. does that mean that we shouldn’t recognize those either because they might not recognize the same intrepreted version of your god.
Shake your head, it’s about state laws… not religion. Quit bringing your version of god into a secular argument or perhaps you want the priests and pastors to start running our country.
Funny how you’re the only one hurling hate speech at others.Calling people God made idiots.Seems you’re the only one with hate speech.
Really… so calling people sinners, and perverts is not hate speech? And I never called you an idiot for believing in your own god. I may have called you an idiot because you can’t see that there are other people in this world with different beliefs that are just as valid as yours. But you are so (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) that you can’t see that.
For myself, Im perfectly willing to concede that there are a lot of Christians in this country, and I’m willing to live alongside them. I’d just like them to respect my ability to live my life without placing any restrictions of my personal rights.
rant rating:4,blah blah blah blah..blah blah blah blah…
You are mistaken dear. Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding. There were marriages being performed back in the day of Abraham. Maybe earlier if we fully checked. Just puttin’ my 2 cents worth.
Susan, keep preaching JESUS to Rodon, and you and I know one day he/she will know the truth, like many others.
Duane – please please please get an education, preferably from someplace outside of Texas. You can preach Jesus all you want, but I don’t see you espousing his most basic principles.
Rodin I have read all of your posts… and their answers.
They are consistant in one way…..that is they never address your point. They always throw the god thing in ……and the… “you’ll find out some day thing. Why can’t they address you head on?
No Rodin, Duane speaks the truth. Him, I, or Susan cannot bring the light of truth, Jesus Christ to you. All we can do is witness He is the light. He will do the work, and the thing is, you can reject, reject, reject to suit rectifying the sin filled life you live in, whether it be gay, heterosexual, a murdered, a robber, a womanizer, or whatever it is. But you cannot escape the fact that sin is sin, and Jesus Christ came and took the nails for you, and I, and all, that all you have done or will do wrong, may be washed away from you by calling on His name. If that isnt Love, then there is no love to be found. Recognize the Love, or have none at all. Dont return hate for this, or accuse me of hating. This is the highest recognition of loving someone we can have, to share the everlasting Love of Jesus Christ with someone. This is truly done in Love, so please accept it as such, or deny it if you choose. But recognize the love that is intended here for you. Have a good day.
Mark…. you have no love. only a desire to hurt others. If you truly loved gays you would accord them every right and respect that you yourself want to receive from others. You instead want to punish. Why don’t you leave the punishment of sin to your god…. I’m sure he’s more capable than you.
Jesus loves you brother. Bottom line, no matter who you are or what you do, He loves you.
First Jesus said,”I and my Father are one and the same!”Get it?Jesus doesn’t condone homosexuality!
I can handle Jesus loving me. Your kind of love I can do without.
Hey! Texas is not religious at all. Haven’t you ever heard that the two things that come from Texas are steers and queers?
Andrew – you really have a problem with drinking too much tonight. Maybe some of your friends will get together and help you out on your gay bashing. Maybe you’re really just a closet fag and you’re upset about not being able to be open with your friends. Don’t worry – when you come out of the closet there’s lots of friends that will help you.
rant rating:3,blah blah blah blah,(only worth 4 blahs),your slipping!
Those of us within the 70% of our electorate unhappy with current political affairs live quite far away from Texas;)
It appears to me like rodin already does know, not so sure about many of you here though, it seems to me few of you are able to listen to rodin and here what he is really saying, it appears to me that you must filter it through your own biases and respond to that and not to what he is actually saying.. Open your ears and minds.
Duane
After reading rodin’s postings,it appears to me he has already found the truth and it is you and those who agree with you who seem to be unable to know the truth, if you all would quit spinning his statements and try to fully understand what he is really saying then you could make responses that address his positions and not answering your spin on what he said. Your responses then become irrelevant to this issue because you are really answering your interpretation of what he said and not what he said. My take is you have misinterpreted most if not all of his statements. It start with listening and having an open mind. Try it.
“Freedom means freedom for everyone,” Cheney said, adding, “I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish.”
I don’t think Mr. Cheney realizes the can of worms this attitude opens. Logically, if we accept this line of reasoning, fathers can marry daughters, brothers can marry sisters, and mothers can marry sons. But, hey, in our “anything goes” society, why not?
I agree with your post. You did however leave out adult/child relationships.
Mr. Cheney is a smart man, but has let his vision be clouded by his daughter and her relationships. These comments will only hurt the GOP, not help it. And the Republican party is so divided as it is, he should have kept those comments to himself.
Marriage should be for a man and woman only. That is how God ordained it to be and that is the way it should be!
I truly hope that we will have a strong 3rd party come forth and pick up where the Republicans left off. They have strayed from their agenda and have gone too far left. We need leaders with morals, values, and good common sense. They seem to be far a few between right now!
Robin here is your quote:
(“Mr. Cheney is a smart man, but has let his vision be clouded by his daughter and her relationships. These comments will only hurt the GOP, not help it. And the Republican party is so divided as it is, he should have kept those comments to himself.”)
Why on earth would you say that?
In other words, if Mr Chaney knows this to be the truth he should remain a hypocrite. His daughter is gay. He raised her. He sees and knows that he didn’t make her that way, she was borne that way.
Even the cold blooded heartless Chaney can see that gay people are like everyone else.
He can see that they need to love and be loved just like you. They have maternal feelings just like you. They want to work and sacrifice for the one they love and children too. But knowing all this he should shut up to placate all the wing-nut, ignorant, bigots, so they have a better chance of winning an election, forcing the rest of us to live under their narrow minded ideology.
Did it ever dawn on you that no matter how many Gays get married and get on with their life, this will never stop you from being as conservative as you like.
If you want to go to church every day you can. If you want to be as heterosexual as you can, nothing will change.
If you want to marry the one you love, you can.
Having a progressive administration allows the conservatives to be as conservative as they want in their lives. However it’s the conservatives their allies want to block and say NO to the wishes of others for their lives.
If your neighbors were a gay couple, the only way it would effect you is raise your property value, because you can bet theirs would be the best looking house on the block.
Having a progressive administration allows for any body to do anything they like as long as it gets them votes. Every one does deserve to be loved. Go love whoever you want. Just dont justify your actions by making it legal. We dont care about property values. We care about moral values and your way of life and thinking being an infulence to our children. Do whatever you want but dont force it on us to accept it as right when its not.
Mr. Cheney’s daughter was not born ‘that way’. Homosexuality is sin. God loves homosexuals as much as any other human being. Jesus died on the cross for all of us. No matter how hard I try, I am never going to be sinless. However, homosexuals openly sin.
You are very defensive. What the gays are trying to do is change the law when the will of people have spoken. It should be a majority rules vote. That is what our country was founded on.
I am not naive enough to believe that homosexuality is going to just go away. Sin is always going to be with us, until Jesus returns. For those who desire to be in that type of relationship, they will have to come face to face with Jesus when they die. That’s when it really will matter.
Pride goes before a fall!
Right. According to this thinking, one should be able to marry his dog. Or one should be allowed to have 6 or 7 wifes, if he is that much a glutton for punisment. I dont see how you can rule for one set of rules, but throw out the other. Is it not as important for a man who wants to do it with a goat, that his wants be met, as much as it is for a man that wants to butt bump another man? You tell me what the difference is? Then you add the adult-child thing. Why should their needs not count if the butt bumpers needs are counted. You start changing God’s design for us, and you open up a whole jar of satanic worms. I dont think we should let them out. But then again, the hollywood scene tells us were haters if we dont bow down and play political correctness with them. How did these immoral drug addicts, sexual misfits ever get to where what they say and think even matters? It is the sickest avenue of society out there. Do we need to be entertained by their movies that much? Unreal.
God you are an ignorant fool. Chaney was talking about ONE adult marring ONE other adult.
How dare you put the polygamy thing on gay folks.
It was you HETEROBITES that were boneing sheep on the farm
It was you HETEROBITES that made the donkey act in Mexico famous.
It was YOU HETEROBITES that made polygamy famous.
You might read your bible and see that all your hero’s like Abraham and Solomon and countless others that had hundreds of wives and concubines.
Some of them screwed their sisters and sold their daughters to lunging perverts for sex and slavery.
You need to rap it up and tuck it in before you make a bigger fool of your self.
Aint got nothing to do with being gay. Its got to do with equality. If you give to one sides wants, you need to give to the others. As much as I see gay being wrong, you want it, and it looks like your needs are going to be met with this. But why are you any better than someone else that wants something different? Isnt this what you are fighting for? Dont be a hypocrite. You cant get what you want, and then screw everyone else and tell them they cant have things there way. Think about it. And no one put polygamy on gays. Did you read it? I said if you are given these rights, should not the polygamist be given his? What the hell makes you or I so much better than them? It is the same argument you are using against me and my heterosexual types. Do you think that high of yourself, that you should be allowed to marry, but that a polygamist isnt fit to? Are they not human beings also? And the goat thing was because, well believe it or not, there are some sick dudes out there that are going to raise this topic. Again, I didnt not say the gays did this, or the heterosexuals did this, but you did. You attacked me all over, when all I did was cite facts. I never once called you a name, and I never called you a polygamist or a goat screwer, but no, you in turn hated on me and called me all of these? Why? Because I dared consider that someone else besides gays and heterosexuals might want to have all their marriage concerns addressed, but according to you, no one else’s feelings about things should be considered. Imagine that, coming from you. And here I just thought you wanted to be treated like anyone else, yet you are not willing to extend that to someone different than yourself. You name call and attack. Now see, if I was afforded the same rights as a gay person, that would be considered a hate crime. But I get no such respect. And in the Bible, those things were not yet illegal or not done, as the earth was being populated in those days. But that all changed in the New Testament. You see, it used to be we couldnt eat pork either, but that changed also. It used to be we had to slaugter sheep and animals for sacrifices all the time, but when Jesus was sacrificed that was it, everything changed. And all these things you attack heterosexuals for, such as boning sheep, donkey acts and polygamy, dont think you are attacking me, because I am totally against these things also, and I would stand side by side with you in fighting against these things. They are perverted and wrong, so you know, dont try to include me in these just because Im a straight. Damn man, your kind of prejudice against me, just because I brought up the point that if gay marriage is considered, lets let other folks have their wants considered. But for some reason, you feel the way you are is better than others and that only what you wants counts. Kind of surprising hearing that from you, thats all.
You are making the biggest fool of yourself dear heart. How many jokes are there of man/sheep love? There are straight perves too but you dont see us trying to make it a law to justify it. You also made our point for us all. So the sheep lovers unite and ask to be married to your most beloved lamb because we know you were born with that love inside you. Donkey lovers of all races must come together and stand up for your right and stop the discrimination. We know its not just the mexicans. They get all the credit. Swedish donkey lovers, Irish,russian, african and all the rest. Its time for you to take credit for your love of all things hoofed. We know you have lusted after them since birth. Muskrat lovers. You know its not just a Captain and Tinneal song. Its the true meaning of your love of those soft furry critters,….. well you know. I say its time for you all to unite and join the progressive movement of “If it feels good it must be right” Why let the gays have all the fun tearing down society and turning it into a free for all. Were going to hell in a handbasked anyway. Might as well join in and well all get there a lot faster.
John S..you may be a very fine person …but for anyone to have sex via the rectum where stool is stored and excreted is not NORMAL or NATURAL!! Also as gay men get older..their anus is so stretched that they are unable to hold the stool and have to wear adult diapers.
You comment on what you truely don’t comprehend.God told the Hebrews to marry within their own tribes.Not to marry foreign wives because it would be a thorn in their eyes.You are the one who will account to God for calling a believer ignorant when you truely are!God help us overcome you.
First off God ordained marriage right from the start with Adam and Eve.It wasn’t Adam and Steve.It takes common sense to figure outthat a man and a woman get together in marriage to have a family.Gay men and women can’t procreate unless they get with the opposite sex to have a baby.
Hey mister rump wrangler, that may have happened in ancient times but not so much anymore. The difference is if heterosexuals ask Jesus to forgive them and they go to heaven. Homosexuals feel no remorse about sinning and they end up humping each other in Hell.
There are some Godly movies:Saving God,Second Chance,My Big Fat Greek Wedding,Kingdom Come,Ushzipin,Broken Wings.
If marriage were to be defined in our laws as between two people there is no discrimination if they are same or different sexes and that is the only question here but to obscure the issue Mark throws out examples that are totally irrelevant to this issue. None of it will ever happen. Can’t you just see the Supreme Court ruling that Mark and the goat and other animals are equals and therefore cannot be discriminated against and if Congress passed such a law as Mark suggests could happen not even liberals would re-elect them. GET REAL, MARK!!
People better be careful, what is next children’s rights to do as they please, We might see toodlers getting married
It used to be we did. As history has progressed, the average age of unions hasa increased.
hasa????you finally lost your thesaurus? rant rating:1,blah blah..
They allready got them. Due to our so called geniuses that think they know everything some parents who know full well how to discipline their child and teach them love and the same time, go to jail because the child has been taught at public school to call social services on them if they get spanked. So now we have government interferring with raising our children at home. They have done such a wonderful job since they took discipline out of our schools, havent they.
No and they will give an account to God for every evil thing they promote in our nation!
That is an insane comment. Biologically, our species is driven to psychologically abhor familial sexual relationships for the purpose of creating diversity in the gene pool. It’s not a moral issue at all.
You are of Satan!I bind you in Jesus name!You will go to hell for your choice of homosexual lifestyle.You’ve been warned.Now your blood is on your own head!
Wow. Do I detect a threat from you? Are you going to be like that insane killer that killed the doctor or the one that walked in to the Holocaust museum. You’re not seriously advocating violence to force everyone to believe in your god are you.
rant rating:3,blah blah blah…..
So now we can have child adult sex?Think of what your saying.It’s not okay to have sex with an animal or a child but the gay men have an organization that wants to promote sex between a boy and or baby boy.Sicko’s!
WTF. Who said that it was ok. Your priests maybe….. Children in our society are protected by law. That is child abuse… has nothing to do with religion except for the fact that every Christian religion seems to have their priests and elders doing it. I’m much happier having secular laws against child abuse than following your warped leaders views and actions on diddling little kids. It’s you that are sheep and blindly follow. Use the limited brain cells you think God gave you, and you can protect your children a lot better than your church can.
You’re a gay man and you don’t know about Namba an association that advocates sex between a boy and men or baby boy.
That’s child abuse too and that’s illegal under our secular laws. And please quit calling me names you know nothing about. I still trust our laws to deal with child abuse more than I trust your church.
rant rating:2,blah blah……(worth only two blah’s!)
I’m not catholic!I don’t condone any sick deviated sex acts.I have told you the truth out of love.If you don’t understand that Jesus doesn’t condone homosexual marriage or lifestyle,you aren’t reading the whole Bible.I don’t want to hit you or do anything to you.I just want you to come to the saviour.For that you call me a bigot.God help open your eyes before it’s too late.
rant rating:8,deserves a LOT of blah’s,blah blah blah…blah blah blah blah…blah…blah…blah…blah..blah…..
Those that oppose freedoms, responsibilites and rights for some, oppose them for us all.
Marriage, in the eyes of big government, is a contract entitling the holders to specific rights.
It is unconstitutional, and immoral, to deny some people those rights based on who they love.
Why don’t we just say, “all those named Judas are not allowed to be married, the bible says so.”
I’m sick of these UN-CONSTITUTIONAL arguments.
This is America and the GOVERNMENT has no right to interfere with PRIVATE contracts.
And a marriage to Uncle Sam is nothing more than a private contract.
God’s law reigns supreme… You don’t have to agree with that, but I guarantee there will come a day that you will. God does not condone homosexual relationships. Our government can and in some states does, but that does not make it right. Marriage is for a man and a woman, end of story. Whatever the homosexuals call it, it is not a marriage. A union, a partnership, whatever, but not a marriage! Marriage is sacred in the eyes of God. Homosexual relationships are not.
Then change the government wording of the contract.
Leave it up to your individual church to decide what they will “bless”.
Keep the bible’s 600 year old discrimination out of modern law.
It is a simple solution, but most don’t want a simple solution.
They want to be right.
And the government wants to be big.
The constitution, and every one of us, loses in the current scenario.
I’m sick of both the atheists and the christians campaigning to take away MY rights.
Neither group is right and both won’t give up.
Which makes it really easy for the fiasco in Washington to continue on.
And Red or Blue, we are ALL to blame for the state this country is in.
TeresaE, you might want to read what the bible says about homosexuality. No we all are not to blame for where we are right now.
Quite I could give a hoot what they call it. Just give gay folks the EXACT SAME rights that other Americans have, or quit taxing them PERIOD. Heterosexuals have made a complete mockery out of marriage. Are you afraid gay folks will have a much better track record?
John, you and I both know, that the statistics show that gay people move on from relationship to relationship much more than straights. And yes, straight people have made a mockery of the marriage system, so so many get married that dont even know God, that it is terrible that some so called Christian churches out there marry people without training. My church and pastor has refused to marry many people, because they either do not know God, dont want to know God, do not want to refrain from having sex until they are married, or they just plain have no reason to be getting married. Marriage is a union that God set up a long long time ago, and most heterosexuals do not want to play by His rules, so you are right on target when you say heterosexuals have made a mockery of marriage. Amen to that my gay brother. I am a heterosexual Christian myself. I just hope that you gays in getting this right, will be prepared for the money the lawyers will be after in gay divorce. Be prepared for those of you who adopt kids, for one of you to get reamed unfairly for child support, once they figure out who the man part is. I guess thats how theyll do it, thats how it works for us, the man gets screwed, so I guess they will have to figure that part out. Then there are some states that have alimony laws, where one of you will be paying the other for the rest of your life. You wont be able to get married and walk in and out without repercussions, so be prepared for that. Sometimes, we need to be careful for what we ask for, we just might get it.
Give me the rights that gays have. When as a Christian I am mocked, not allowed to take my Bible in certain buildings, not allowed to display the cross or talk about Jesus, I am discrimated against, and no law protects me. But your are afforded protection from groups hating on you, but Im not . Its open game on me, and I do wish I had the same protections you get, by law. I dont believe in hating on anyone, but now days, it is totally acceptable to hate on Christians, Jews, and Catholics. Everyone else is off limits. I would just like to know why we are excluded from being protected? Can anyone tell me why we fail to deserve protectionism that all other groups get? Makes me wonder.
You really don’t know the truth.Gays are very violent.They don’t think twice about shattering a beer bottle over someones head if they’re angry.
I know it, you know it, and God knows it. Im not a basher, Im a prayer. I pray for them, and I will treat them like any other person. But it doesnt change the fact that it is wrong. It is not God’s design for us. There are those on that side who will say to me “oh like you know what God wants”. I would reply yes. I know Him, and have a personal relationship with Him. Many things have been revealed to me. But things like this, anybody knows it. It is written “for a man to sleep with another man as he would a woman, is an abomination to the Lord,”. We are also blessed with a conscience. We all know when we are doing right or wrong. We know when we take something that doesnt belong to us is wrong. We know it. It cries out to us that its wrong. When we do wrongful things that hurt someone, we know its wrong. When we have sex out of wedlock, or have extra marital sex, or cheat on a girlfriend, we know its wrong. If its something you feel you need to hide from your parents or friends at any time, you know its wrong. Thats a fact.
Right or wrong, live the way you want to and then when you meet God, see who you can blame. If you give everyone all the freedoms that they want, you no longer will have a country or a home because then there would be no law, and no punishment for crime. You can name call all you want, but you can never win, nor can you change a person or their thoughts. ONLY GOD HAS THAT POWER, fussing back and forth will never get you anything but satisfaction that you have spoken.
Go for it Robbin, right on
Your god’s law may “reign supreme” for you, but there’s no way in hell it should be enshrined in our secular laws.
In the end, it will reign supreme for all. Bet the farm on it. Its coming, I guarantee it.
That’s nice. Your guarantee and 2 bucks will buy me a coffee. It has nothing to do with what our secular laws should look like NOW.
This may be true to you, to protect you from me forcing my ideals on to you, and Im fine with that. However, we have so many secular laws that they dont even bother to enforce that its a joke. Like there is a law against sodomy, but you know what, its never enforced. Like there is a law on Sunday that you cant drive your car down the street without a horse tied in front of it. True law here, but not enforced. Secular law is forever changing, at the whims of man. What is legal today, may not be tomorrow. What was illegal, may be legal tomorrow. It is all at the whim of what ever group of men are in power and what they want to do, or sometimes what will make them money, which is a lot of mens god. However, spiritual law, is constant, always the same, always perfect, never changing or needing tweeking. No, it was set right the first time from the beginning, and always will be.
This isn’t a secular nation!It was founded by christians.If you don’t like it get out of the country because it is a christian nation with christian principles.
Denise, Read my comment very early on about founding fathers having founded america and made it one nation under god. I repeat, the American Natives founded North America long before Jesus was born. United States of America is not a christian nation because very, very few Christians walk the path of Jesus Christ. As I have said in another article, don’t call yourselves americans. Call yourselves correctly – if your ancestors came from Europe, than you’re a European. Another point, the American Natives walked the Truths of Jesus Christ. “For whatsoever you do unto others, you have done unto me.” All human bengs were respected for they were given life through the breath of the Great Spirit, whom you call Jesus Christ. These included the two-spirited people.
Denise – We have freedom from religion to protect us from people like you. Otherwise we’d be just like IRAN.
rant rating;1,blah….worth only one blah….
I was in the US Army for three years.The government owned me.If I got a sunburn I could get an article15.
That’s nice…. They should have turfed you for being crazy.
The only crazy thing is someone having annal sex.It serves no purpose.
First it takes brains to fix microwave,searchlights,minddetectors,gyroscopes and wire equipment.
rant rating:0,worth half a blah….
Freedom to do any sick thing you want?
Freedom to live my life respecting others rights to living their own lives in peace and respect for each other’s persons. I realize you have no respect for my person, and would hurt people that you don’t agree with.
First off I have read about homosexual men who have used hammers to smash windows and called a pastors wife and said what evil sex acts they would perform on her children.Now who’s evil?
rant rating:4,blah..blah..blah…blah blah blah….
I just married a turtle. I am sure it must be legal in Connecticut. I have to go up there on a business trip and my amphibian wife wants to go with me.
Thank goodness for those intellectuals.
I thought about marrying a taco but I am not into short relationships like the gays.
What a stupid foolish argument you make. Why do some of you want to reduce another human being to an animal or object.
Since you didn’t recognize the comment for what it was, I would assume you don’t understand that it is not I, who has reduced those people to being an animal or object. They have accomplished that on their own.
I couldn’t care less what they do privately. They will answer to God for that.They have as their goal the right to adopt so that they can perpetuate their life styles, since they cannot reproduce.
They want children to educate and brainwash into their life style. If you who are straight, have children, who for unfortunate circumstances, had to be put up for adoption, would you want a gay couple to adopt them?
You say gay folks want children to educate and brain wash. Now stop and think about what you are saying. Where do you think all the gay people came from? Gay parents? Are you crazy, it was straight parents that raised most all of us.
Some how the straight brain washing did not wash off on us. So go figure. Do you think loving gay parents are going to brain wash little children?
Could you be brain washed into being gay? Do you see how silly that is.
I know 2 gay couples raising adopted children in California.
There is no doubt these little boys are straight-8. The are attending private school and have the best of everything.
They were adopted from drug dependent parents and have problems that have cost their loving gay parents thousands of dollars.
They will do fine I’m sure, but they will be straight because they were born that way, but they will not be raised to be bigots. That’s all
No.I think it used to be against the law to corrupt the morals of minors.That’s what our government is doing with our tax dollars in public schools across America teaching that the homosexual lifestyle is okay and handing out the pill and condoms so our youth can fornicate(sex outside of marriage=fornication).
You are reducing marriage as it has been for thousands of years for your benefit.
Were not comparing humans to animals. But now you are discriminating other peoples love for their thing that they see is OK. They truly love children. They truly think man/ boy love is natural Its natural to love little girls,so who are you to say your love is OK but to love a child is wrong. Those people are just as convinced in their mind as you are that what they do is OK because thats how they feel and they have felt that way all their life. So whats makes you morally superior. There are a few good people that make good parents but on the whole you cant justify your sin just because your a nice person or your a good parent or by making it law or coming up with crazy excuses. Wrong is wrong.
Marriage was a legal contract created waaaayyyy after Christ. You are also being incredibly hateful by generalizing that they prefer man/boy love. THEY DONT or at least not anymore than your local preacher or neighbor likes diddling little boys and girls. Gay does not equal pedophilia. That is a FACT.
rant rating:3 blah blah blah…
OH YA your right. People didnt get married ever in any country until waaaaaayyyyyafter Christ. What a joke! People all over the world have their own representation of what a legal contract is and the Goveriment of that country upheld it. UM you must be one of those “JAY WALKERS” where Jay Lenno asks a simple question and morons cant answer it right. You are one right? I know you are because I cant believe your comments. Really now?WAAAAYYYY after Christ. OH so those silly little ten commandments that God himself etched in stone Thou shall not commit adultery, was one pretty sure. and your right it wasnt until 1956 when it happened. I think Cecil B DeMille the great documentariest caught it all on tape as it actually happened. Funny thing tho’. Moses look strangely similar to Charlton Heston.
Ya and Im the hateful one. Not the one actually doing the crime. But your right again. Its straight men doing little boys.
So the first recorded marriage was performed by God himself after he made Adam and Eve. I know you probably havnt read it sweetie but its in the bible. Genesis 1:27. and so God created man in his own image, male and female he created them. 28:and God blessed them and God said unto them be fruitful and multiply….. Then theres the Pharaohs who have recorded marriages and as far as I know these and all in between were WWWWAAAAYYYYYY before Christ.
It is sexual perversion. It doesnt make them bad, it doesnt make them dangerous. They are just sexual perverted, as is the guy who sleeps around with 10 diffferent women. So dont come back that Im hating gays. It has nothing to do with gay or gay lifestyle. It has to do with being sexual perverted, and thats what it is. You say, how do I know? Well, Id had the pleasure to hear many couples who were gay and changed, all tell me it was sexual perversion. I chose to believe the word from the horses mouth, not from my opinion or Rodin’s or from societal perception, but from those who have crossed that line, lived it, and changed. They ought to know more than I or someone stuck in it.
It’s not okay to have sex with an infant!
Marriage is a contract
Turtles, and minors, cannot LEGALLY enter into a contract.
This argument is the lowest level of stupidity and a basic misunderstanding of contract law.
The way this country is headed it might not be long before they can, who knows what is next in line
Teresa
Your reply indicates you level of understanding—need I say more. You must be one of those wannabe Lawyers or maybe an inept paralegal
You missed the point.
Well gays getting married is not law or a legal contract and your trying to change it into one so with your theory you have found a lower level of stupidity.
You are soooo wrong on both counts. Marriage itself IS a legal contract and gay’s ARE getting married in several states and other countries including Canada and Europe.
rant rating:1(weak) deserves only one small blah…
But it wasnt until gays tried to change it.AND you also had a huge (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) hissy fit when the majority of people voted against it in California.
Many of you here have indicated that gays are trying to change the defination of marriage. That concept is reduclous.
Example If you have a nice 5 bedroom house and you decide to add a family room to one part of it. Is it not a house any more? Of cource it is. By adding the big family room you have not changed the defination of a house is, you have only expanded it.
So smoke that in your pipe flea bites.
Well there you have it. A great foundation of civilization reduced to the foundation of a house example. Show’s how much they know of the importance of it. Or care. He was worried we were comparing them to animals and he compares marriage to real estate. The difference is its more like having the most beautiful homes you can have and some one who doesnt have the same standards of building moves in the neighborhood and builds one too. May look the same on the outside but the foundation was laid on sand and everything in it is a fake knock off version of the others. That makes the value of the real ones go down. And also they smoke pipes and have flees.
You know, any group of men, at any time in history, can sit down and re-write any laws they want, to fit any interests they have. Mere men. They have ideas that fit their agenda, so they write laws to fit what they want to do. 50 years later, comes another group, that doesnt really like what the first group wrote, so they start changing these laws to fit their agenda. Some laws they choose to enforce, some they dont, its not perfect. But then there is God’s laws. Set from the beginning. Always constant, never changing. Never can be improved by mans thoughts, and they will be the same tomorrow as yesterday, and the same 100 years from now. They were made in perfection, and they cant be improved. There is a way to man which seems right, and it is the way of death, and the scriptures tell us this. We can choose to accept the truth, or we can walk through life convinced that we are smarter than God and we know everything, and we live to our own rules. But then there is that one thing, that one little thing, that one day all of us get our chance to go before Him and give an account of ourselves to Him. Im sure glad that I am not pompous enough to sit there and tell Him that His design for us is wrong and that He didnt know what He was doing. But some will, to which I say, good luck with that.
I tried marrying the taco man. It dont work. At first everyone else wants it, then it starts stinking and rotting, and man what a mess. So now Im thinking about my neighbors goat. But then Id have to hide my relationship from people I know, because I know its wrong. So then I changed my mind and decided I wanted 6 wifes instead, but Im being prejudiced against because they will let a man be with a man, but I cant have 6 wives. Its just not right. What makes them better than me? Why are their perverted needs met and mine arent. This whole jar of worms needs opened now so we can make everyone happy. Yee Haa, Im spinning in circles as we go down the drain.
Mark. Can you believe all this excusing and justifing and crazy off the wall examples they use? and as John has stated Gays never commit crimes or do no wrong and are responsible for saving the world and are smarter than all the other men in the service. They are so good at pointing out the sins of straights to justify their own actions. Good at SCREAMING to get their point across and calling names but never once can they face them selves. God is an offence to them because they are so far removed from Him. There is no reasoning or rationing with any of them. Some of the points are valid void of Gods word but then they dont like it when the same points they use to justify theirselves is used for others who feel the same as them. I dont have the patience as you. I dont like wasting my time on facts because they have heard it all and still use the same ol excuses. I do love how John types the word Homeo whayever in big print like hes yelling it and were suppose to be hurt. I guess straight people have thicker skin coz I actually think it funny. So Ive been working on my computer a lot and have been able to entertain them and let them spew their hate at me. Go to this and see what john thinks of all straights and our military. It is a sad state we are in. Im so glad there are people like you out there who are not willing to turn their back on God just to make a few happy.
http://www.personalliberty.com/news/supreme-court-upholds-law-on-gays-in-military-19215580/
I guess then, the name is Rod-In.
I hope your turtle wife makes more money than you so when you divorce her, she can pay lots of alimony.
Not an alimony state here. And unlike a lot of guys, if my wife made more money than me, more power to her. Im all for it.
But…. what if she were a TURTLE….
rant rating:0 only worth a eigth of a blah…
Americans are creative. Can’t we create a new title that defines the relationship between 2 people of the same sex so that the word MARRIAGE retains its original meaning of a male and a female as it has from the beginning of time? Why are we fighting over one word? We could have a contest and vote!
Are we or are we just stupid. It is none of my business what two other people do, If that makes them happy so be it. What would be a good name for a legal union between the same sex? It sure isn’t marriage, That I think should stay as it has always been. If the christian lives the life as set forth through God’s Word, and did as Jesus did, He did not condenm wrong, He loved the sinner, and not sexually, as the word has come to mean, but taught truth and love and honesty. But He let them live their lives through free will, and He will reward them accordingly. You must choose which way to go yourself and pay the fiddler when it is over!
Kim, I agree that it is not my business what another does if it doesn’t hurt others. All I’m saying is that a homosexual relationship is not the same as a legally binding marriage between a man and a woman. Therefore, come up with another name that gives these people a kind of title so they can have legal privilages that humans deserve. As a Christian, I think it goes against our Creator God. But Christ came to minister to the imperfect humans that He created and loved. He paid a hefty price—its called redemption. I’ll let Him be the judge.
I do agree with you all the way, but let them come up with their on word for their union as long as it is not marriage. Marriage is ordained of God and should only be between a man and a woman
Oh, but he did condemn their sins. He would say ” I forgive you, now go and sin no more”. He didnt say, “Oh well, just keep on sinning, its ok.” No, he said go and sin no more. When the Lord says dont do it anymore, that is a condemnation of what you were doing. Go and sin no more.
Why do you care so much for the exculsionary definition of the word Marriage. It wasn’t your god that created it.
Rodin, I believe God created us with a special design that includes pro-creation. That is a pretty miraculous process which involves a man and a woman. That unity has been identified for many, many years by using the word MARRIAGE.
On a practical level, does it make sense to call a cow a horse? or a nose an ear? They are not the same and it would become confusing.
Connie you may have special sexual apparatus that only opens after the local justice of the peace declares you married according to the law, but most of the rest of us do not . The miraculous process you describe has nothing to do with marriage.
Since marriage is a contract between two people according to the local civil laws, how can i be calling it by the wrong name if i seek to provide equal CIVIL rights for everyone. Are you suggesting we have religious marriages and civil unions?
If God didn’t create marriage, who do you think did?
Why don’t you do some research Robin. Historically human beings have bonded for life, (although funnily enough as life expectancy increases so does the desire to split up), and different societies have had different ways to recognize the bonding. In ancient times it was a matter for families to get together and celebrate, the ring is said to be a symbol of eternity…. Did you know that in the original Trivial Pursuit there was a question asking for what reason the majority of Russians got married during the communist years…. the answer was of course “Love” but very few americans chose that answer. Funny. I digress. Some people think the notion of marriage as a sacrament can be traced to St Paul when he compared it to the relationship between Christ and his church. I digress further. The point is that human beings like some other animals in the kingdom mate for life and it is this process that we celebrate… if you want to do it in a church or a city hall or on a beach… that’s cool. You may be trying to argue that God created the desire within us to recognize our soul mates and if that’s so then I can respect your faith. However, please respect that there are many people out there that do not share your belief system yet still would like to recognize their life partners.
And please do get and education and perform some rudimentary research.
Soooooooooo some of your “facts” come from a parlor game called the pursuit of trivia?
Well Rodin, if God did not create marriage then who did? It goes back to the earliest pages of God’s Word. I don’t care that gays might get the right to a so called legal contract, with all of the benifits of marriage, but it will never be the same as a true marriage between a man and a woman. It may be legalized some day, but don’t expect minsiters of God to preform them. You can argue back and forth about equal rights for all but remember that the government can never get it right. They give rights and in so doing take rights from others. Try getting a job is some states. First in line are the blacks, then the women, then other nationalities, and don’t forget the native americans, in some states they come first, then the white man can get a job if there are any left. I know this last statment has nothing to do with a contract, but just shows how goverment screws up everything it touches when it comes to equal rights. And yes the christians will do everything in their power to make people see 4 themselves what is good, and wholesome, and right in God’s eye. To believe or not, that is your God given right enjoy your life here, for after this life is over, to bad!
Kim,
That’s all that anybody’s really asking, is the right to equality of legal contracts…. nobody is a proponent of making churches do anything they don’t want to do. If you want to have a special ceremony for church weddings and your church doesn’t accept gays, then I really don’t care. But the local JP and municipality and state and federal governments should recognize gay couplings with the same rights as straight couples. That’s all that anybody really wants.
As for my god, I think she’s happy with me.
God gave Adam knowledge!God gave man his intelligence.You are truely brainwashed by man centered thinking.You will give an account to God and Jesus when the Bible is opened at the judgement seat of Jesus.
I’m happy in my relationship with God, and when I meet her, I’ll put in a good word for you too. However, until then, we have to learn to live together with the same rights on Earth.
rant rating:2 would have been a one,but,the utter retartedness of the statement bumps it up to a 2,blah blah blah…..
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah due to gays who wanted to know 3 male angels sexually.Do you think God won’t do it again?!!Watch America burn up.No wonder California’s burning up!
don’t cast your pearls before swine! you can’t argue with these demonically infested people,when you do,your doing so in your own power and the demons relish arguements because then they have YOU to deal with,and the sodimites are so demonically deluded and spiritually dead that they no longer feel the ”taint” or guilt for what they do.they are bound for hell and the demons within them know this as nothing else.just tell it like it is,jesus did’nt argue with them nor did any of the diciples.
you are dealing with someone who is spiritually DEAD and is totally controlled by satan,this is no joke.a demon cannot deal with gods rhema (written word) and will ALWAYS try and get you into a arguement.
for ALL you sodomites outthere,your time is coming and even NOW the wrath of jehova (god) sits upon you and you know it.REPENT,STOP,CEASE,SUBSIST!!!
eternity is a very very very very LLLOOONNNGGGGG time to burn in hell!!!!!!!!
as it says in gods word…….IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF A LIVING GOD!
Wow… they let all the crazies out of the cuckoo’s nest. You got some serious issues dude.
rant rating:0 (3 o’s give you one blah),blah blah blah…
I find this truly astonishing. Convince enough people that it is right (PC) and you can get almost anything you want into being acceptable and calling it constitutional. Moral issues are just that, MORAL issues. From day one, Homo-sexualism has been wrong. Even though I believe that God’s law is the only law, our government has never allowed this to be a constitutional concern or even thought of it being a law for the gays to be married, until recently, not until the “PC” issues and our “Empathy” to not hurt peoples feelings has this come into play.
Our country was founded on certain beliefs (I believe MORAL beliefs) and if we continue to allow these alternative points of view, which alter these moral beliefs, our country will continue to spiral down into a immoral country. We are AMERICANS. Other countries use to look up to the way we live, now I see it faltering quickly. Just my two cents. I could go on forever about this issue. (Sigh)
Where in the Constitution does it say you can infringe on others rights because they are amoral?
Where?
The Christian right is as to blame as the Socialist left for the disaster in America today.
Quit having to be right and start opening your eyes to the truth.
The politicians keep us divided over CONTRACT LAW, while selling your children into slavery.
You may win the battle, but my children will lose the war.
And THIS is why we are DOOMED.
I beg to differ my dear. The Christian Right is the only thing that keeps God from taking this country out right now. But relax, we are dwindling and becoming less and less, and this country keeps pushing God away, and soon His hand will be removed from us, and just like the Greeks, the Romans, and the Medo-Persian empires before us, we will be delivered to the hands of a lesser enemy. Learn from history or repeat it. These were all great civilizations, greater than ours. They all kicked God out, became sexually deprived and full of false gods. They were destroyed. See anything like that going on here in the United States? Thank you. I rest my case.
The Greeks and Romans didn’t forsake your god.
They didn’t “kick god out”.
They did, make lots and lots of laws trying to control behavior using their gods names as the reason.
And it failed as miserably as it will fail here.
Divided we fall.
Look around you, we have fallen.
And it has NOTHING to do with god and his grace.
Try taking responsibility for your own actions and expecting others to do the same.
WE THE PEOPLE kept going back and asking for our government to rule our morals.
WE THE PEOPLE will be the ones that will starve.
The government will be fine.
It does have to do with God and his grace. When we reach the level of decadence and perversion that the Romans and Greek and Medo-Persian empires reach, God will remove Himself totally from us, and deliver us to another enemy as He did these empires. It is all about God and His grace, and if dont know that, your looking in the wrong places.
Theresa… You are a tad too politically correct for me.
I happen to agree with Mark. The Christians are what is keeping this country together. Hello… ever hear of Sodom and Gomorroh?
I don’t hate gays. I even know some gays. I pray for people that don’t know our Lord. And if you truly know God, you will know and understand His written Word and have an inner desire to follow it. I don’t know if there are Christian gays or not. Only God knows a person’s heart. But as a member of the human race, we use God’s Word as a standard. Nobody can lower the bar to a level of their own choosing. We can only draw conclusions on what we observe.
And, if it comes to a vote, which it should, and has in California, will this movement go away? No. It’s not those who oppose it that keep it going, it’s the one that are for it that won’t give up even when it is apparent that it is not the standard we want our morals to be lowered to.
You still don’t see my point.
DIVIDED over contract law.
You are going to lose it all, by not defending the discriminated and allowing people to use their free will to make their own choices (to a point), even if those choices are not in alignment with your good book.
Reality is that asking the government to rule on morality/religious based issues is going to end badly for the religious.
Today it is gays, tomorrow it may be Christians. Reminds me of a sad poem, that starts off, “first they came for the unionists, but I was not a unionist, so I did nothing. Next they came for the Jews, but I am not Jewish and so I did nothing.”
And you are DEMANDING that the government make these decisions.
I’m sorry that you can’t see that demanding every American follow the rule of the bible is the same thing as is happening in the middle east, nor can you see just how badly your fight has changed the course of the country for the worse.
Most Christians I know decry the bigotry, hate and injustice of many of the rules of law derived from the Q’uran.
Yet they cannot see that their own meddling into others personal lives amounts to the same exact thing.
It is sad to see both the liberals and the conservatives destroy everything that once made this the greatest nation on earth.
And as a realist, it is obvious that people are not capable of looking beyond their own judgmental attitudes and see the truth. Sad days
Teresa you can try try try as you like, and you can try your whole life long to deny Jesus Christ came and died on the cross for you. But rest assured, one day, you, like I, and like everyone else, get to bow before Him and give account of ourselves. I know there is a lot of crap Ive had in my past that He was not to pleased with, and there are still things that I do that I know are not pleasing to Him, but I am trying. You see, even though I am a Christian, and I openly acknowledge Him as my Saviour, dont go thinking I should be perfect and dont sin. Im a human being, wearing flesh. As long as Im this way, Im bound to fall to sin. Thats how it is. Any Christian that tells you they are without sin, Teresa you call them out, because they are a liar. But I know Jesus, and you may not understand it, but yeah, He talks to me. He directs my moves. He corrects me when I screw up, but He is always standing there with loving arms open waiting for me to come to Him. The same for you. The sad thing is, so many people never know just how much they need Him, until He is all theyve got. Once you find Him, things become a lot clearer. That gray area fades away into distinct black and white, wrong and right, and you clearly know the difference. I hope He finds you soon. Have a good day.
Mark you’re a hypocrite raising JC’s name as if you have any understanding of his teachings. You’re so filled with hate and bile towards another set of human beings that you would allow them to be treated with less respect than anyone else. I strongly urge you to go back to his central teachings of love first. Everything else is just technicals. Love and respect for your fellow human beings was everything he was trying to teach and you quickly forgot because you saw an opportunity to justify your hatred. Learn to love and respect before you cast any more stones.
rant rating:6 worth 8 blahs blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah….
To Rodin: Where did I show hate? Because I spoke the truth of Gods word, that He says “for a man to lay down with another man like he would a woman is an abomination to the Lord”. Thats makes me a hater because I cite God’s word? Wow. Being that you are attacking me and hating on me shows that you are the hater here. Being I know gays, and have had gays in my family, and I tell you what, they are peaceful and I feel safer around them than I do a lot of so called normal people. I have never forced any malice on them, or hate, or attacks, yet you attack me, because I speak the truth, not my words, but God’s words. So dont box me, go box Him. I dont think your arms are long enough, but go ahead a try. Good luck with that.
How sad for you.
If America is going into a reductive spiral is has nothing to do with gay marriage. By far the greatest moral reduction comes from the way heterosexuals are raising their children. The overpopulation in the criminal institutions are not comprised of gays, they are YOUR HETEROSEXUAL off spring. Some of them for cornering, robbing, beating, and killing decent gay people. The joining of two gay people to build a life, and home togather, and many times rescueing your throw-away children to give them a new lease on life is not part of America’s doome.
John, I agree and disagree. First off, gay unions are wrong, well at least according to God, and being a Christian I follow His word over yours and mine. But secondly, the heterosexual offspring problem, yes sir, you are correct. But again, this comes from Un-Godly alliances mostly, from unmarried people who decided that sex sex sex with everybody and anybody is a good idea. Not. God created sex, and it is a good thing. But the enemy, Satan, has taken it and made a dirty thing out of it. Its design was for it to be enjoyed between a man and a women, IN MARRIAGE. Everyone should get themselves and study guide, and read the Book of Solomon, or Song of Songs whichever you prefer to call it, and it details it all. Three times the woman wanted sex, but the man so no, the time isnt right, because they werent married yet. So yes, all this sex going on is the cause of a lot of our societal problems. Divorce between people who have sex before marriage is 10 times higher than between those who wait until marriage to have sex. Today society tells us this is crazy, but then again so is my God coming to earth to take a beating and getting nailed to a cross to pay for my stupid sins. But He did it. Our whole society is out of control because we have put God on the back burner, and kick Him out of more and more places. Soon we will fall, and all you people who want gay lovers, multiple lovers, both sex lovers, extra and pre-marital lovers, you’ll be able to have them all until He comes again. Have fun.
John, you hit the nail on the head.
Being gay is not the crime that many make it out to be.
Raising conceited, materialistic, never do anything wrong even when caught, full of excuses with no work ethic children should be.
People should have to have a license to have a child.
YEAH,YOU TRY TELLING THAT TO JESUS WHEN YOU FINALLY SEE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO GAYS IN JAIL!!???!!!You sure do crack me up. Seriously now. Im having a blast reading your rants. No really. I hope you join us now more often. I cant wait to pass this along to everyone. Your priceless. Its like your just (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) to say…..ooh sorry.
13 – you really have your head up your arse if you think that rape and sex in prison has ANYTHING to do with being gay. I can see you don’t have a background in sociology either. And BTW the concept of civil marriage arose in medieval Europe to keep track of the population and statistics. Prior to that people took partners and were recognized as being partners. Even in the Catholic church for a time, there were gay marriages… It is historical… you just have to study it. As for your 10 commandments, what does union as contracted through civil marriage have to do with that. If I’ve got a parther, married or not, and one of us strays, that is adultery. Why do you insist on bringing the government into the equation.
rant rating:9! worth MANY blah’s….blah blah blah blah……blah blah..blah blah….blah…blah….
Your the one bringing the government into the equation by trying to use the courts to legalize sodomy. ALSO Hate to tell you this sweetheart but there are men who swing both ways in jails but the straight guys stay as far away from the sisterhood as they can. You dont have to have a degree in anything to know that. Ask any guy who has spent time in there before you speak to which you dont know. So back in the day if you read the bible at all is when God said its wrong for a man to lay with a man. Therefore a union between 2 men is not considered adultery because God considers it a sin. I also know the Jews had a marriage ritual wwwaaayyy before then dearie. Its like having a conversation with a child it is. You can screw the facts any way you like and make them up but the fact is its a sin you are trying to justify with irrational thoughts and It aint gona work. Keep telling yourself all the bullshit you like. I personally could careless what you do in private but Im not going to turn my back on God and let our society fall into the pit of hell.
John S..are you kidding??? Do you really not know what goes on in jails and prisons??? 3 meals a day,not great food..but food,no responsibilties, and all the sex you want!!! Why do you think there are so many repeat offenders?? And while I am at…now don
t think I agree with gay marriage..but HELL I say let them have at!!! Be miserable llike the rest of us...give them half you house,your retirement,gotta split the money in the bank..no matter who worked for it,support the kids..and you might catch a look at that new car you bought once in a while with the new younger boyfriend driving!! Yeah go right ahead ..get married..get all your earnings and property all tangled up. By the time you go thru this a few times...you wont get married again.Debra – you funny!!
rant rating:0!(lost your thesaurus again?) blah and 1/8 of a blah..
And you can bet the lawyers are all for this one. They are going to make a ton of money off the gays in society. All these alimony, palimony, child support, splitting the bank accounts, all of this will apply to you. Hope you arent pissed when you get what you asked for, and I hope some of you get reamed like I did 20 years ago. But you asked for it, so be happy.
Go to the Old Testament.Sodom and Gomorrah ‘s sin of homosexuality was so great it cried out to God.So God sent three male angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for their homosexual sins.Do you think God won’t destroy America the same way?
Morality does not equal law, nor should it where it has the potential to create disharmony between mutually respectful groups.
Without God and morality we would be in dire straights.
no rant rating as you were surprisingly somewhat civil that time(must be on your meds)
It used to be against the law to commit sodomy(annalsex)!
That’s because we’ve elected ungodly men and women to office.We should humble ourselves and pray to God and he will heal our land as he promises.
Denise you got to be the most judgmental person in this discussion. Acting like you know everyone’s relationship with Jesus. No one has that ability not even you. If you know so much about Christ I suppose you know he said Judge not lest you be judged. Be careful! What if he found your sins to be the equal or worse than the gays. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. What would his judgment of you be. This is why I treat gays by the golden rule, if Christ has a problem with their being gay, on judgment day, I’m sure he will make the right decision whatever your opinion, right or wrong. He has commanded us to Love one another, and may I submit that you cannot love anyone unless you treat them with respect. My dad use to say you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. Telling the horse how good the water is might persuade him, disrespecting him will never get him to drink. My advice let your fellow man define themselves and then respect that definition even if you cannot agree with it. You were called by Jesus to witness not to be his judge, jury or executioner.
You confuse the word of God with hate ,judgement is in God’s word.So perhaps it’s you who can’t handle God.I only warn them of what Jesus and the disciples said.Problem with the word that will judge them ,go to God.I’m not judging God’s word does that.You seem to think you are the authority on Jesus.Read the New Testament before you try to argue with Jesus and the vwery word he’ll use to judge you ,me and the homosexuals you claim can do what God plainly states in Leviticus18:22,”A man shall not lie with a man like he lies with a woman,”You want to argue that?!!!You would lose!I don’t argue the word of God which will be used at the judgement seat of Jesus Christ.You call me judgemental.Perhaps you can’t handle God’s very judgement!
Dick Cheney supports gay marraige because his daughter is a Lesbian. He’s an idiot and should shut up.
A few Cheney quotes:
“I had other priorities in the sixties than military service.” –on his five draft deferments, April 5, 1989
“My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.” –March 16, 2003
Go f*ck yourself.” –to Sen. Patrick Leahy, during an angry exchange on the Senate floor about profiteering by Halliburton, June 25, 2004
As far as gay marraige let the voters decide. For those who forgot, this still a democracy.
Its a republic at least that’s what Ben Franklin said when asked what they gave us, and then added if you can keep it. The voters do not decide how most laws are made, your representatives do. The US Constitution is changed that way. Except for California, this method is not used often elsewhere and in some states the legislature has to vote to allow it first. California has gotten a lot of bad laws this way and that is why today its economy is worse that most of the states. They have handicapped their elected officials in too many way. Emotionally enacted laws are usually the worst laws and most referendum etc. have produced many unintended consequences.
You dont see any other reasons as to why California, who used to have one of the best state economy’s, is now about the worse?
Yes, but that is the primary one in the present crises. Some of the propositions enacted handicapped the legislature and Governor from better addressing their issues, does not mean they would have addresses them in the best way but these made it almost impossible.
And when the USA is burning up because God exacts judgement on such evil.Voters may decide but God has the final word!
The Republication Party is not much better than the Demogoges. In the last election I voted for the Constitution Party. Check it out at http://constitutionparty.com.
Fat lot of good that did for you.
rant rating:1 (your meds must be wearing off!) worth two blahs,blah..blah…
Compromising what you have believed all your life because you child has decided its ok, is not ok. Stand on your own beliefs Dick and quit caving. Giving in to the liberal degenerates (Ellen Degenerate)is not gonna make the GOP stonger. It weakens it.
Dick Chaney is not compromising what he believes.
For once in his life he is owning up to what he knows is true.
The sad part of this equation is that he denied the feelings and happiness of his own flesh and blood for political reasons.
I cannot believe he has just now come around to realize the sexuality of his own daughter.
He as many other right wing politicians are the ultimate hypocrites.
Some how I feel the word was coined for them. Though Chaney is personally not gay, there is a documentary soon to be released exposing all the republican politicians who time after time have affairs with guys while being married to women, and have voted time and again to extend the hell gay folks have to deal with.
We must remember a politican’s first duty is to get elected or stay in office.
To hell with the people, just keep your seat.
They even vote against bullying laws to protect children in grammar school form bullies that seek them out to beat them down.
If you read the news you would know of the recent three small gay school children who killed themselves because they felt it was their only relief from their tormentors. Time and time again no one would help them.
Are you telling me these children decided they would rather die than to abandon a “LIFE STYLE” they chose? How insane is that? These children were who they were because they were borne that way.
In the past gay men either married women they didn’t love and had children because of family pressure, only to divorce some years later, leaving a wife of many years hart broken, and children in mental hell with a broken family.
There of millions of examples of this in this country.
The ones that didn’t marry got off the marriage hook by becoming a priest.
We all know how well that went don’t we. The solution to this problem is let people be who they are from the beginning.
Let them find the ONE they truly love and create a life.
Look at the cost to society when we dictate who people must be because that suits us.
This mistake cost the Catholic Church billions of dollars. If many of these guys
could have lived the lives they were born to live they would not have had to run to the priest-hood to hide.
The most basic of human instincts is to love another and be loved in return.
It is embedded in us from childhood.
Now for all you guys out there, imagine you woke up tomorrow, and the vast majority of the worlds population was gay, but some of you were heterosexual. When you met a women you just had to have and love, you had to be together in secret.
Others said the very thought of it was disgusting. For sure it isn’t normal.
You may sneak around in private when no one is looking, but your friends will harass you if they ever find out, and some of your parents would surely beat the heterosexuality out of you if they found you out. Many of your parents truly want you to be happy, but if any of their friends found out about YOU they would be sooo embarrased. This is what most of this is about.
I mean come on guys all you have to do is go to church and the gay pastor will pray for you, and we can send you to a camp ( where you will recieve a verbal labotomy), ( if it’s a high end camp they will surly have electro shock treatment), where you will meet other gay guys and in no time you will see the evil of your ways.
Soon you will meet a great gay guy and in no time get married, and in time if the need for a women comes back, for the love of God, don’t move on it.
Get some more counseling, and pray about it. I’m sure God will change you.
In fact, kill your self if you have to but don’t associate sexually with women. (whoops) I forgot killing yourself is a sin too)
Well there you have boys and girls. Go by the wing nut gay social laws, and live a of a lone some hermit, or tell them to chase them self’s, and love and marry the women you love. To hell with them.
The same goes for you gay boys and girls of cource
Im sorry I made fun of you. I see you have issues. My bad.
Mr 13 – I think you have issues. And yes you are bad….. supporting hatred and divisiveness.
See any time a person doesnt agree with a lib they are hateful. They cant argue facts so they call names. I dont hate gays. I feel sorry for them all.
Hey 13th, dont you know theyve got the right to attack us and hate us. We the Christians have no rights. Its open season on us. We are not provided the protection as other groups, because then they would cry separation of church and state. What a joke.
A quote from a book written BC: ” 2. For as their laws and their governments were established by the voice of the people, and they who chose evil were more numerous than they who chose good, therefore they were ripening for destruction, for the laws had become corrupted. 3. Yea, and this was not all; they were a stiffnecked people, insomuch that they could not be governed by the law nor justice, save it were to there destruction.”
This is us today . . . we will not be governed except by laws that are to our destruction . . . for example: Abortion, same sex marriage, speech (hate) and gun (safety) control and many other such actions which take our freedom. FREEDOM is a gift from God that allows for our progression, but FREEDOM must be exercised within certain boundaries (laws, commandments). Many, if not most, people desire to set their own boundaries to include their disobedience (sins), rather than conform to the law and order than brings growth and peace. We will only be governed by laws that will act to our destruction.
Cheney HAS to say this whether he believes it or not simply because he has a gay daughter.
Who gave you the ability to read his mind.
I guess you know nothing about families?
I know a lot about families, raised four by myself and have 12 grandchildren, my point is that he could very well believe what he said you seem to want believe he had no choice in the matter, not saying your wrong just you can’t get in side his mind and I believe if you can’t prove your point you should not assume you can know in matters that have no proof. Is it not sort of disrespectful to the Vice President to do so to.
I respectfully disagree. Dick has revealed his mind on many occasions as has Newt. Neither has a liberal bone in their bodys. I don’t fault either of them for loving their kin with or without warts. We all have some family member we wish we could “fix”. I have several. In fact my cousin Evelyn once worked in D.C. with the Clintons. She is my cousin and I love her dearly even though she is a liberal loon of the first order. She even attacked me on the abortion issue AT A FUNERAL!
Marriage, Abortion
Whatever our personnel beliefs are we are entitle to it. Who are we to judge and Government should not have the right to enforce or stop people for making life choices they want too. Weather I feel it is appropriate or some politician dose is not relevant.
Everyone should have freedom to make Life Choices.
Its interesting, YAYA that you include the concept of ABORTION in a comment about judging if we are entitled “to have the right to enforce or stop people for making life choices.” How do you use the words “life choices” when talking about allowing abortion? Are you not forgetting about the LIFE OF THE UNBORN? As Ronald Regan said….he noticed that the people who are for abortion were allowed to be born.
You are correct—Everyone, EVEN THE UNBORN should have freedom to make Life Choices. Who is there to protect them from an arrogant society that acts like they have the right to detrimine who lives & who dies—-before they even have a chance to begin life?
Go live in another country and let our country fear God Almighty and not uphold evil:Abortion,gayrights,gaymarriage,etc.
I have a right to say where my tax money is spent,okay!
Don’t I too, even if I want it spent on something you do not want it spent on, the majority decides that and maybe it gets spent on what we want and maybe it does not. How would you run a government if they could only spend each persons taxes but to have each persons permission first. Total Chaos, is, that what you really want??
To help the poor,the widow,the lame.That’s what it should be used for.When someone is struggling and homeless,jobless,in need of help with life’s issues.Paying Mayors,govenors,the prtesident,vice-president,etc.
I very much agree but few conservatives and/or republicans do, this is a liberal belief. Maybe there is hope yet
your reply
To help the poor,the widow,the lame.That’s what it should be used for.When someone is struggling and homeless,jobless,in need of help with life’s issues.Paying Mayors,govenors,the prtesident,vice-president,etc.
That’s why we have representatives:Congressmen and Senaters.That way we can petition our government about our grievences and ask for our taxes to be spent for good and not evil,i.e. abortion tax money to kill unborn babies in Mexico or in the USA or any where in the world.Yes I have great faith this will be rectified by us or God who can bring the economy in the USA to a screeching hault if we promote evil with our tax money.
Killing future citizens isn’t okay.Would you be here today if your mom decided to abort you?
We are entitled to life,liberty,and the pursuit of happiness,not murder(ABORTION),gay rights,gay marriage all causing God’s punishment on our country.Ever wonder why the economy is so bad?Gee,tax money to murder innocent babies in the womb,gay rights,and gay marriage.Even governors confessing adultrous affairs and claiming they have broken no laws.Yes,they break God’s laws daily without remorse or repentance.Something the modern day christian seems to think they’re above repentance.Get real with God before he destroys America with flood ,disaster,and fire.
Ok folks, let’s break it down to the raw basics. Just because the gay movement is growing steam,it doesn’t make it right! Why is it that you go to San Francisco and there are thousands of gay people,yet you go into a place like Oklahoma City,or Kansas rarely do you run across a gay person? Can we say it’s environmentally caused? Is it a pop-fad culture promoted to the young? They say that the majority of human beings at one time or another have mixed feelings of feeling homosexual,that it’s driven by hormones,accept they do not need to act upon it,since they are actually hetorosexual the whole time. However when these humans live in a society,culture,and a city that actually promotes the lifestyle,when these feelings come up they are easily mentally swayed into gay feelings,and then think they are homosexual. The longer they stay there the more likely the will stay there! Tell me how people like the so called lesbian girlfriend of Ellen Degenerous recently decided she was not gay anymore,left Ellen and went back to a man? I personally know high school aged girls who used to be “GAY” while experiencing it in high school,and now laugh at what they did,and actually can’t even believe they tried it,and are happily married now! Luckily they live in KS where it is not pushed in their face on a daily basis,otherwise when they were younger they may have been convinced that somehow they actually were gay! When a man takes his private part and inserts it into another mans waste receptacle it is not physically normal,and furthermore there can be no procreation,same with a female trying to find ways of sexual pleasure with another female can never procreate. This is what the scientists said in the early 70′s,it is a form of mental illness that can actually be cured,which it has been,many times. This was a consenses of all scientists then. I guess if the global warming believers trust the consensus of scientists on global warming then they shoul also believe them on gay relationships!
OK Terry now that you broke it down, lets put it back together again.
” Just because the gay movement is gaining steam that doesn’t make it right”
I’m sure it doesn’t make it right for you but it does for millions of your country men.
(quote)
“Why is it that you go to San Francisco and there are thousands of gay people,yet you go into a place like Oklahoma City,or Kansas rarely do you run across a gay person?”
Terry, I can assure you there are thousands of gay folks there.
The difference is they have to live in the closet.
They are not free to live like gays do in many other parts of the country.
In KS they will run into discrimination in every form of life if they are out and open to who they are . I can tell you and don’t even know you, you personally know more of then than you would ever guess. They just can’t tell you.
Why do you see so many in SF? The answer is easy.
California has been a refuge for gay people for many years especially SF.
All those gay folks there, were not born there, they came from all over the US to escape the small town thinking and the harassment.
There very many talented people in the gay community who can never develop them selves in a small town atmosphere .besides, you always are happier when you are around people who can relate to you.
Blacks do it, church people do it, Mexican people do it everybody does it. So it’s natural and comfortable for them. There are no red necks harassing them.
You don’t go to SF as a straight man to become gay. If you go as a straight man you will leave as one. If you leave gay you were gay when you went there.
As far as most of us having feelings of homosexuality at some time in our life, that is true.
All of us have have feminine and masculine sides to us.
In my life I have known many straight men who have experimented with gay sex.
That does not make them gay. Who they are is what they are after all the experimentation is over.
The true straight guys and women find a partner of the opposite sex. Over the years I have met straight guys that said, after doing their experimentation how ever many times with the same sex said God, imagine getting off that good, and being able to shake out your boots and go fishing with your life buddy.
Being able to go have beers and shoot pool with your life buddy, and not all the nagging damn what a life, the only problem is I really want kids, so I guess I’m going to have to go with the other program.
This is a guy that is straight. He is also very confident about who he is.
If he was a gay guy acting as a straight guy living living in a completely straight environment, he might likely be a bully, calling anyone in his presents especially other gay guys, a fagot.
This is the way straight (really gay) guys cover their tracts in front of their Buddy’s.
This is to make sure their friends never suspect what they are hiding. A man who is sure of who he is doesn’t have the time for such BS. He’s busy looking for women.
He is typically glad to see many gay guys. These are guys who will never compete with him for women.
Why do some girls have lesbian relationships then go to men? The same thing happens to girls who are married to men they never loved in the first place.
But women are made different and are socially raised different in this country.
It’s not uncommon to hear a women say how beautiful another women is. To walk up to a women friend and kiss her on the lips when she greets.
It’s not uncommon for them to go into the bathroom together at a public place or discuss female problems together, or cry at the drop of a hat.
We allow them to vent their feelings on a plethora of subjects, which some say is why they live longer.
Now, on the other hand unless you are only 8 yrs old you may get away with kissing your grandpa or your dad, but not much later in life it is forbidden to show affection in most ways to another male.
If you give a buddy a hug, it better not be for more than a second. If you were in a restaurant and went to the restroom with a buddy like women do, especially in the presents of women, all eyebrows would be raised to say the least when you returned.
Women said OMG that girl is gorges. OK so what. But you say “damn that guy is good looking”, and all hell would break loose.
She would want to know where your are every second for the rest of your life, especially if your attractive your self.
I wont go on and on but you get my point. We are a country of hypocrites with double standards, raised to live in a certain box depending who we are.
Ours is a tiny one, women have one that is an acre square.
Ever wonder why guys act like complete nut cases at a sports event, some times rioting and causing damage beyond belief some times? It’s the only place men can vent. It’s the only men can release pent up anger and tension. Why do women
attend sports events? To keep an eye on their men, and to find one if they don’t have one.
With liberty and justice for all,,,,, is a farce. Other countries are not like as bad as we are. Most of it comes from our puritan back ground. The sooner it leaves the better off we will all be.
John S.
well said and very gutsy for this site.
There is so much wrong with this its sad but the last thing. If it wernt for the puritans making babies, which you cant do, and for all us sad straight people having babies, which you cant do, you yourself wouldnt be here. Fact some of what you said is true to a point and it is because we as humans have a choice to do right or wrong. Given our nature we choose wrong without Gods help. Without God and Christ in us we just do whatever feels good. Were imperfect creatures and left to ourselves we fall into all sorts of sin and perversion. One of which is…..thats right, so without Christ gay or straight we all sin. Im just not going to justify any of it. So you yourself are no better than all of the above stated by yourself. Dude. Jesus loves you. He died because he knew from the begining of time you would be and do whatever. When you get to face God all your pointing fingers at every one else’s sins isnt going to matter to him. Its yours alone and just because others sin doesnt mean your excempt from yours. You will be facing the same fate as all those examples you gave if you continue to justify your actions by whatever excuse. You dont have to try to convince us its OK. We know its not. But keep trying to make yourself feel better about it all anyway you can. You might be deceived in your mind about it all by Satan but so sad for you Gods not.
LMAO – You do a good SNL routine – except I think they already have a Church Lady.
We’ll see who’s laughing when we do face God dear.But thank you I love the complement. Church lady was a hoot.
I agree John, but i fear it is like water off a ducks back with a lot the folks here.
What about butch females who beat up their female counterparts?
What about them????
John, the generalizations you make about men and women are not true. Men are by nature more aggressive than women. Women are by nature more nurturing. Men are supposed to be the protectors, women the nest builders. That’s nature.
Trust is all important in a relationship, whether the couple is married or unmarried. Everybody has a right to have his or her own friends as well as friends of both parties. Men like to get together for various activities as well as women do. And women do not attend sports to keep an eye on their men. They attend because they really like to watch the sports. There is no more greater enjoyment for us grandparents, grandpa and grandma both, than to watch their grandchildren play or perform. I, as a woman, love the game of baseball more than most other sports, although I do enjoy watching others. When I was younger, I enjoyed playing them, too.
Your cynicism and generalizations are what is wrong with this country anymore. Prejudices and stereotyping are becoming this country’s undoing. It’s poor against rich, liberals against conservatives, blacks against whites and other nationalities (if you don’t believe me, just watch the news every day), whites against blacks, etc., ad nauseam. It’s time we all do as Jesus told us to do, “Love one another.”
So now that youve spoken the truth, your going to get attacked. Brace for that. The only exception I took, was when you dropped San Francisco as the reference city for gaydom. Everywhere I go I hear that, but Ive been there 3 times and it was fantastic. My wife and I went everywhere and were never bothered. The gay society is a peaceful lot, as the travel agent put us in the middle of the gay section because of it being the safest area. We didnt mind it at all, just like being around normal people. What I hated, was when I was in San Diego and Los Angeles, for 4 years in the military, I couldnt stand at a corner and wait for a bus without getting approached at least twice on everytrip downtown, and getting propositioned by a gay guy. Sometimes they would come around the block 3 or 4 times, and they seemed to be conviced they could pick you up. It took me back to being a teenager chasing after certain girls, making me wonder if I was that much of a nuisance to them. I hope not. But everyone here in Indiana that hasnt been there, hears San Francisco and thinks “gay”. Its a great party town, with lots to see like Ghiardelli chocolate, Alcatraz, Pier 39, Fishermans Wharf, Dimaggios and the cable cars and all kinds of stuff. They can keep LA and San Diego, but San Francisco is a neat spot.
Mark, your last response to me was wrong on so many levels, but that’s ok, I’ll assume you are like the typical 90% of Americans that have no idea what is going on beyond its borders, who remain blissfully ignorant and afraid of everything “different”.
Let’s start with IRAQ – You argue that it was OK to invade because Saddam was a madman. There’s lots of madmen in the world, why was he so special that we needed to invade? There’s lots of countries living with tinpot despot dictatorships, some of which we actually set up because we didn’t like their kind of democracy. You say he had weapons – yeah so what – so does everybody else. Both Bush and Cheney have now admitted that there was no evidence that he had WMDs. They lied and manipulated your fears. You can keep believing the lie or you can move forward.
As for the people in IRAQ, sure a lot of them are happy we ousted their dictatorship and gave them an opportunity for freedom, however there’s two arguments here…. (1) one are they special considering all the other populations around the world… why don’t we march into North Korea, or Iran or China, or Russia or Saudi Arabia or any other country we don’t believe has the same level of freedoms we have. Why don’t we help the people in Congo, or Niger or the former Rhodesia. Wake up and read a newspaper about what’s going on in the world. 2) immediately after we “freed” them, the factions being held together by Saddam started to fight each other and have so far killed a couple of hundred thousand of themselves. We’ve caused the deaths of more Iraqis in a few short years than Saddam in his entire career.
You also suggest that we needed to get Iraq’s oil – This argument is horrific and could only be justified by Cheney himself. However, assuming I wanted to look at it from a Machiavellian perspective, you’re wrong on this count as well. 1) We don’t need Iraqi oil – We can be almost sufficient with North and South American oil and topping it up with oil from our “friends” in Saudi.
2) Bush and Cheney gave a “pass” to Iraq saying we did not have any “call” on their oil and they were free to sell it to anyone and keep all the profits themselves. So far, going into IRAQ has cost a trillion dollars none of which we will ever see again, that doesn’t count the cost in terms of lives or limbs that American soldiers have lost. How can you be a patriot and suggest that our boys should die and be mangled for Cheney’s glory. IT certainly didn’t do anything for us.
There are way too many reasons not to have gone into IRAQ, but our country was blinded by corrupt, incompetent and ideological leaders. I never want to see us make that mistake again…. and believe it or not but I am not one who believes in policies of staying out of world affairs as we did prior to FINALLY helping out in WWII. I think there are a lot of places in the world that need our help, most especially in Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Korea, but we DID NOT HAVE TO GO INTO IRAQ. It was costly, based on lies and it screwed us up.
Now as for your comments about me. I never said that I was gay, why you would infer that is curious since you seem to want to fight for me. I fight for anybody’s rights and one thing I’ve noticed about America, is that there is a large component of the population that would like to keep rights away from homosexuals. And the vast majority of these morality excusers, use their understanding of Christianity as a justification for their bigotry. This country was founded on principles of freedom for ALL and freedom from religion. WE cannot start enshrining one group’s morality as secular law if that morality does not respect the basic rights of others. There are far too many moral cops on this site who seem to think that who somebody sleeps with is more important than the love and respect they show for their fellow man.
You can pray for me all you want, but I’m certain that my god is very happy with me and I’ll talk to her when I see her.
Cheers
If you read the Holy Bible you will see it in black and white,Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.God will open this at your death.This is what God will use to judge you.No arguement,just a fact!
Just try speaking against their gay agenda and see how quickly they become violent against you.
QUIT CALLING THEM GAY!!! they are SODIMITES! PURE AND SIMPLE! SINNERS DOOMED TO HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE! QUIT BEING TOUCHY FEELY,GOD WAS’NT!!!!!
Republicans are weak, divided, and not ruthless enough to beat out the democrat party.
Winning at any cost will cost us all.
I have a great idea. Put all the gays in California, Oregon, New York City or wherever – let them make their own utopia. Give them enough land, houses, etc…that they need to build their lives. In less than 90 years (probably more like 50 yrs or less) as long as they remain a couple (as they say they do) – in no time they will all be dead and the earth will be renewed. They should do this in every country and that would end the problem. Of course, in many nations, people are killed for such abominations of immorality.
In all seriousness, it is wrong. It is not marriage. They should have remained closeted. Perversion of this magnitude rots the moral fiber of a culture. Civilizations from the beginning of time self destruct when this behavior becomes the norm.
I was a bit harsh, but enough is enough. They are morally bankrupt and need prayer. But they do not need legitimacy governed by law to do their sexual practices in the name of marriage.
Sexual perversion is not good for society. If the tree is planted what kind of fruit will it bring. Will it be pears, apples and oranges, and figs, or thorns and briars.
Goodness will shine forth and evil will perish.
Peter… that is sooo deep. I’m going to have to smoke a joint to reflect on the profoundness of what you’re saying. Between you and Maharishi, I’ll meditate and try to get my inner peace. Then when I meet god, I can say “whazzzup dude”
You a funny man.
Dont mock God Rodin, he wont be mocked. And Im not a betting man, but when you meet Him, and you will, you aint gonna be saying nothing like that. Hopefully, you’ll come around before then, and He will look at you and say “Come on in Dude”. Yeah, thats what its about brother. Be there, dont miss the bus.
Mark… you’re way too serious and you’re straying way off the mark. Try to keep to the topic at hand… I know you’d like to proselytize some more, but what we’re talking about right now is whether certain members of our society should be discriminated against in SECULAR law…. i.e. do we get to remove certain rights from them. I realize you probably would love to bash all those which you consider sinners but please remember we’re here on EARTH right now and any judgement is only for the divine after we leave. I don’t care what you believe in as long as you don’t hurt other people. I’m sick of people like you preaching god and love with one voice and then removing civil rights and privileges from other human beings that you don’t agree with. That’s not your job. Or maybe you’d like it to be in which case why don’t go back to NAZI germany or to the Medieval Europe where people like you get to kill all those you don’t like.
Susan
Being a child of God gives us all legitimacy in his eyes. Interesting concept you have though, sort of similar to how hitler got rid of the jews, but real nice of you to let them at least live, I suppose that is real progress over hitlers solution to getting rid of those each of you despise. I have a hard time seeing Jesus suggesting this as a solution to your gay problem through. And of course so much for freedoms in this county if you were to succeed.
It seems to me that the only ones loosing freedom to speak out against homosexuality are God fearing people who want to live in peace and live lawfully in society.How about our 1st&7th Amendment rights the gays want to infringe upon by passing hate crimes legislation against our freedoms.
Your speaking out here are you not, I’ve not seen any evidence you are in any way restricted in what you can say in our society. Not getting your way is not being discriminated against. Your 1st amendment rights are very much being protected I do not know what the seventh has do with what your talking about. I guess if your gay and being beaten up or killed it is very much an expression of hate, am I to believe you think that is OK if laws are not passed to punish that. Just what does it have to do with your freedoms. It seem to me that you have more trouble living peacefully with yourself than others. Do you think that if your gay and being tortured or being killed is peaceful.. COME ON!!!
The best way to end this ongoing despute is to put marriage question on federal ballot next November and let the majority decide if we accept heterosexual/homosexual marriage or only heterosexual marriage.
The truth is that politician as not going to let US, citizens decide or they would give a bribe method to get elected. Addisionally, everyone knows that as long as majority or USA population is streight, the marriage will be only heterosexual.
Bottom line is that marriage issue is all about taxes. When married people started paying the same taxes are 2 single people – this issues started taking off really fast. And if the tax laws will expire in 2011, when married people pay more taxes than 2 single, the issue of homosexual marriage will die in a heartbeat.
As some pointed out, the courts are already overloaded with people getting married for fun, without any respect for laws and when they have a fight, they immediately divorce as one fight is the end of the world. Do we really need more bitter, divorces in courts and more kids that had their home destroyed by selfish, self centered parents?
Yes, that’s like letting the Germans decide if they should send all the Jews to concentration camps. Sometimes the majority is just plain sick.
Rodin, my man! You must admit that a majority is not always wrong, a majority of Americans decided that the germans under Hitler had to go and were willing to die to make it happen.
Also isn’t it possible that any argument can be made if we are willing to stretch the truth? We can stretch it for good as well as bad reasons. Or we can tell it like it is. I am not a deep thinker, so don’t waste a joint on it. Save your money.
Ha ha,
signed
Funny Man
I did not say the majority was always wrong… I merely said that we must protect ourselves against a tyranny of the majority… usually happens when someone decides a smaller group isn’t as good as the rest and turns it into an us vs them argument. Rights must be universal. If the majority decide that the minority should have any lesser rights then I don’t care how you couch it … that is a tyranny. That’s as simple as I can tell it.
Funny Man
You are right on only one count, you definitely are not a deep thinker.
That was a horrible comment. Do you think that it was the regular working class German that brought about the Holocaust? Hitler was in charge and his decision was backed by his Gestapo. I doubt that the German people even knew what was in store for the Jewish people. I know some did, but there had to be a lot of them in denial if they did know. Chances are they were misinformed and led to believe something totally different.
Robin – please please please get educated before you speak again. I assume you are only talking about the gassing of Jews in the death camps…what about the years of harassment beforehand, what about Cristallnacht, what about the confiscations of Jewish property, what about the laws being changed to deny Jews jobs and property. The german population was complicit and knowing in ALL of these acts. how could they not be. Sure the concentration camps were hidden away and germans could make the argument that they didn’t know the jews were being gassed. But they knew the jews had all been carted away… they knew all the jews property had been confiscated… they knew it was illegal to harbour a jew in their house. How (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) stupid can you be to say they did not know jews were being discriminated against. Do you remember hearing about the shipload of jews that tried to get away from Germany and nobody would take it and allow them in. That history is a dark stain on humanity and no amount of bleach or pleas of ignorance should cover it up. IF you were in Germany it would have been impossible not to see what was happening to the Jews
Hitler was Austrian not German.
Go rent a movie called “Valkarie”
We’re not sending you to concentration camps.
As I read these posts time after time, there is several vains of thought that needs comment. First you people keep refering to the Bible or God’s law. The United States of America is a democracy NOT a theocracy. People of all religions are welcome here and those who prefer not to subscribe to religous doctrine are just as welcome.
This is excately our laws are not baised on religous law. This is not a Christian nation. It is a nation of all religions, that are to be treated equally. Those that might be non belivers are just as welcome.
Point (2) There is NOTHING in the US constitution that deals with marriage in any way. Yes there are a few nut cases that want to amend the constitution and change it, but it has served us well for over 200 years thank you.
Point (3) Half the signers of the constitution were Freemasons as was Francis Scott Key who wrote our National Anthem and Frances Bellamy who wrote the Pledge of Allegiance. There is no established religon or mention of God in our constitution.
So there you have it.
there you said it for over 200 years we didnt have no stinkin sick queer marriage why should we give in to satan and have sick preverted sinful queer marriage now,the majority is against the sinful sick preversion and if left up to the voters and not the evil lawmakers,queer marriage will always lose,just like it did in california and thats where most of your queers are,queers are wrong,always have been wrong and aleways will be wrong you are just sick preverted and full of a sick sinful demon.
We also have the principles within our society to protect the minority from a tyranny of the majority. If you allow a small majority of people to prevent the granting of equality to a minority, you create fascism.
I think you need to refresh your knowledge of meaning of democracy, tyrany, fascism and liberty.
Tyrany is when a small group of people (e.g. Obama and congress) rules over majority. Kiss minority and descriminates majority and this is why they are loosing their support very quickly.
Democracy is what keeps the world going as more people agree on something the more pieceful life can be. America is a perfect example why globalization (like Obama and UK dream about) is a utopian dream.
Monica – your response makes no sense whatsoever. “the tyranny of the majority” is a well worn philosophical concept and one for which we pay deep homage with our system of checks and balances. Please please get an education – you’re grade 3 social studies background is starting to wear thin. You blast Obama and call his government a tyranny while he is the first president I’ve seen to try to bring together all sides.
Your second paragraph is equally obtuse in that the subject and object of each of the two sentences bear no relationship. They’re both pure gibberish designed to show that you might be able to use multisyllabic words. It would help if you understood the concepts first.
Rodin….why do you get up so early in the morning? I noticed time from your postings. Also are you male or female. You seem very intelligent and also funny…..me funny….Debra
debra – LMAO- America has what are called “time-zones”. That means it is earlier in California than it is in New York by about 3 hours. This website time-stamps replies based on a different timezone than my own.. I try not to get up before 7 on a Sunday. For instance if in my time zone it is 9:00 am, then in California it is only 6:00 am and in Denver it is 7:00 am and in Chicago it is 8:00 am. Not sure what time or year it is in Texas.
Poooooor Old Phyllis going off like a bottle rocket.
I only have one piece of advice for you.
If you don’t like queer marriage…………don’t marry a queer.
We can’t even be really sure Phyllis is not married to a queer and maybe they are at the moment in a midst of a big spat??? It does sound a little like she’s venting!!
Ya there might be nothing in there because a bunch of men in frilly shirts and wigs never could imagine in their wildest dreams that a bunch of men in frilly shirts and wigs would actually want to get married.
This country was founded on Judao/Christian ethics. So there you have it.
You’re an idiot. This country was founded by PEOPLE that had a judeo-christian background. Their principles were freedom from tyranny. They specifically allowed for freedom of religion because they recognized that religion itself can be turned into a tyranny. At least get your facts straight or stop trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth.
No really PEOPLE founded it?! Really? (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) You said exactly what I said only different. At least Im talking out of my mouth unlike you who talkes out of her (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).
Mr 13 – How did we possibly say the same thing. You said we have judeo Christian ethics – which ethics, the ones that say we shouldn’t eat shellfish or that we should stone adulterers, or priests should diddle kiddies or Jews and witches tortured and burned at stakes or that we should deny astronomy and throw scientists in jail. So tell me (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) – which ethics would you like to say are judeo Christian and which Judeo Christian ethics would you like to say aren’t.
First off,she’s not an idiot,God created her.She’s correct.The pilgrims crossed the ocean to worship God and Jesus in truth and spirit!My ancesters crossed the ocean on the second set of ships for the same reason.Not to be told by a Queen and King how to worship God and Jesus.That’s where our government came from!Pilgrims!
Slavery was left legal, no bill of rights to start with, only the rich white men where allowed to vote to start with. Of the people, by the people and for the people wasn’t spoken until Lincoln said them at Gettsburg during the civil war. Does this really sound like it was based on Judeo Christian ethics??? Never the less they started something good and it has been envolving ever since. Gradually blacks gained freedom, much later some rights and respects, Indians more than they once had after these so called christian nation almost wiped them from the face of the earth , women got more rights and the right to vote (took only 131 years) and many others and all these groups met with the same type of resistance coming out that the gays now have for mostly the same old reasons.
I said it was FOUNDED, on those principals, Man however is a sinner by nature and leaves the principles behind to do their own thing ie” the gay lifestyle, Second A Christen is someone who is forgiven from their sins. Not perfect but forgiven. It does not mean any one who isnt a Jew. Third there were thousands and thousands of Christians who helped the blacks fight for freedom. The KKK was a part of the democratic party, especially in the south. It was the Republican President and Christians who changed it. Fourth.God did not say it was an Abomination to him to be black. He said it was one to be gay. 5th. The black population is not very happy you lump yourself in with them. You are using their suffering to get your own way. Im sure some gays suffered but has anyone ever made a slave out of you? Didnt think so. And by the way, You know your President is a muslim right? The muslim community accepts him as their own. When he goes over there he goes on and on how he is a muslim and how proud he is of his muslim parents. Do you know what muslims do to gays????? Look it up. So while your crying over your cappuccino and taking your drugs to help with your AIDS thing. Remember this. You have more freedom and tollerance here in America than just about anywhere on the planet. You have more people kissing your sick ass to make you happy. When the Muslim do take over, and they will, you will be Praying for the day when the Christian hate mongers didnt kill you. Chop off your heads. Chop off your hands and all sorts of lovely things. There will be a day and its getting closer when the Lord will take us all out of here. When He does you just try to even sashey a little and your royally screwed.
13
If it was founded on these principals then why did the constitution not then reflect those founding principals, you can’t have one with out the other. Republicans or Democrats what difference does it make, Lincoln a republican set them free and Lyndon Johnson a democrat gave them civil rights. Both parties have been on the right and wrong side of this issue depending what era you are talking about. I did not equate blacks with gays I equated both gays and blacks as well as others as being human beings. You spun it that way to so you could attach what you said and not what I said. OUR President Obama says he is a Christian and you say he is a muslim, why should I believe you? I am sure he knows better than you about that. The muslims may show him respect but do not take him as their own that is just your wishful thinking so you can make yourself believe this lie. Obama got that respect because he first showed respect I am not sure you are capable to understand that given the spin you put on my first reply. You say “When he goes over there he goes on and on how he is a muslim,,” Obama has never said he was of the muslim faith this is an out and out lie on your part and about as rotten as the rest you have said in your reply and that only shows you are devoid of any character. What is wrong with being proud of your parents whomever they are. Got something against that too?? Also judging from your statements you seem to have a huge amount of hate for gays, democrats, Obama, me and everyone else who may disagree with you or does not share in your hateful ways.
I’m sorry but the pilgrims left England because they didn’t want a king and queen telling them how to worship God.That’s who started our government.
Denise
Then you would think that you should not be telling everyone here how to worship God. Why not give these people the same freedoms that your ancestors had if in fact they did have any.
A freedom for sexual perversion isn’t a right.What’s next,sex with children,animals?
A freedom for sexual perversion isn’t a right.What’s next,sex with children,animals?
Child abuse and sexual child abuse is now illegal, are you really afraid someone is planning to change these laws, Ridiculous, you have somewhat perverted fears of your own then. I do not know what you mean by “right”, I can only think what is legal is not and what is illegal is.
Bellamy was a Baptist-fact!
I have been trying to formulate my thoughts to make them clear to all the partisepants of this debat. I hope I will suceed. As always, I enjoy them and agree with parts of all. So without condeming any one inparticular I shall say, it has been my understanding threw listening and reading that all religions believe in something greater then ones self alone. Christians used to condem all non Christian religions this didn’t win any true believers to them and still doesent. When the protestant revolution broke from Rome the Roman church was the only organized Christion church and it had become corrupt. When human kind has free rein over anything including themselves they do generaly become corrupt. Marriage was once a planned thing. The wealthy had many children because the man could provide for his wife and his many children. The poor had many children because they often died long before adulthood, in their case only the strongest survived. Mans job was to provide and protect and womens job was to protect and nurish. I read many years ago a book on human sexuality in it there was a line drawing of a man and a woman capulating. I could not tell who was who because there was no separation between the 2. A line drawing between a man and a man or woman with woman shows 2 people. The ceremony used to end with ” and the 2 shall be as 1, and let no man put assunder what God has joined together”. Also the laws of marriage back in Jesus’ time was no devorce unless cought in adultry. Now we have any number of reasons for devorce. But even then both parties were not to remarry. Marrige is now run by our governments with 60% of them ending in devorce and remarrage and devorce and remarried. I t makes me very confeused about who is the father or the mother of certain children and when a child of the most recent marriage says he is the uncle of an older man wow that realy scrambles me,I can immagine what it must do to the child. I suggest saying they may cohabitate. Adoption only if there is a very strong commitment to one another. No government support of children should one mate die. Since homosexuals own 80% of all the doctorates( I read this somewhere) they should be abble to put money aside to help with maintinence and upkeep of the children and there significant other threw their grief. Love is the key in it all and it seems to have disapeared from our lives. We mistake chemestry for love.
How nice, polite and civil your reply was. One doesn’t have to agree with everything said so it’s a treat to see an opinion done with civility instead of caustic words.
Dear America
No one in his right mind will support gay marriage,it send a message to our children that it is acceptable,it reflects on your judgment and character. As a parent would you want your children to be exposed to any of this?It is man and woman now and forever!Gays are unfit for all walks of life it is shamefull to say the least.There is no cause to deliberate on this issue anymore.
Sorry DUDE, you’re wrong….. There is nothing unacceptable about being GAY…. It’s like saying it’s unacceptable to be left handed. And personally, I believe that your hatred and bigotry is unacceptable. I believe that teaching hatred is tantamount to child abuse and you yourself are not fit to raise children.
You call everyone hateful and a bigot,but what are you?They are telling the truth from God Almighty!If you have a problem with that,take it up with God!
I talk with her all the time! We’ll talk even more the next time we see each other. Until then, I try to live according to principles which reflect everybody’s basic freedoms and respect for physical persons.
How could you possibly consider me a bigot when I believe you should have ALL the same rights that I have. I’m not taking away anything from you or granting another class something that you don’t have.
People who put down any human for any reason is a bigot , rodin is only pointing this when one of you do this, then you all spin this as him calling them that when has used the term to only describe in short what was said, it does not escape me how many are saying hateful and hurtful things about the gays and I admire him for pointing this out. Bigotry on its face is hateful to whom ever it is forced on.
AMEN!
SEPARATION OF RAUNCH AND STATE(It's still legal - and always God-honoring - to air messages like the following. See Ezekiel 3:18-19. In light of government backing of raunchy behavior (such offenders were even executed in early America!), maybe the separation we really need is the "separation of raunch and state"!)
In Luke 17 in the New Testament, Jesus said that one of the big “signs” that will happen shortly before His return to earth as Judge will be a repeat of the “days of Lot” (see Genesis 19 for details). So gays are actually helping to fulfill this same worldwide “sign” (and making the Bible even more believable!) and thus hurrying up the return of the Judge! They are accomplishing what many preachers haven’t accomplished! Gays couldn’t have accomplished this by just coming out of closets into bedrooms. Instead, they invented new architecture – you know, closets opening on to Main Streets where little kids would be able to watch naked men having sex with each other at festivals in places like San Francisco (where their underground saint – San Andreas – may soon get a big jolt out of what’s going on over his head!). Thanks, gays, for figuring out how to bring back our resurrected Saviour even quicker!
If you would care to learn about the depraved human "pigpen" that regularly occurs in Nancy Pelosi's district in California, Google "Zombietime" and click on "Up Your Alley Fair" in the left column. And to think - horrors - that she is only two levels away from being President!
Why are quoting Dr.Seuss on an issue of societal philosophy….. Start using your noggin instead of falling in line with whimsical fairy tales that hold potentially only minor importance in managing current affairs.
It seems as if…Dick has reached the same emotional
conclusion as Colin Powell. Colin Powell must have
felt that since Barack Obama was of like skin then
he must be okay, so therefore he should be President.
Like Powell, Cheney must have thought that since his
daughter is a lesbian and she’s my kin, then it must not
be a sin. Let’s ALL just throw reason, logic, nature
and morality out the window and side with the devil.
After all, it FEELS better to take the EASY road. Many
more cases like this and I’m going to toss my Republican
voters I.D. in the fire and become an Independant,
before we all become a nation of government dependants.
I’m sure you’ll find some kind of twisted logic to prove or rationalize anything. Start instead from basic principles of respect and equality…. then you might see the light.
There isno equality with sexual perverts!
You have much pain in your heart Denise. We try to teach understanding and love as the most important of values. I’m hoping you will find solace in the following teachings and wisdom.
Let’s begin with the Biblical understanding that humankind was created in the image of God.
Let us then extend the Rabbinic claim that the whole Torah and Bible exists for the sake of peace (Gittin).
And let us finally be reminded of the prayer:
“Let there be a truly great peace between every person and their fellow… and let there be no discord between people even in their hearts.”
Denise, if you let the light and love of Jesus into your heart and accept other sinners just as you sin, you will feel some of your burden vanish. I’m hoping some of your pain will be lifted.
Whether people like it or not God did create our world, He made man and took Adams rib and made woman to be his helper.God has made it so easy for us to have a good life and then people screw it up to believe what they want selfishly. It is not what we want it is the way he has made us andhe hasnot made any mistakes so therefor forget what you selfishly want and do as God intended for us, and that is one man, and one woman, and one marraige.Whether you believe it or not the Holy Bible gives us instructions on how we should live our lives, and it denounces, 2 women together and 2 men together. It teaches only One man and one woman to be married to each other.If you believe the Holy Bible as the word of God then there should be no question about this foolishness. I do believe that science has said that these mixed up unfortunate people are self made, and have payed no attention to the way it was intended to be.
Why do so many people on this web site abdicate their responsibility for purposeful thought and replace it with abject blind adherence to a belief system that is not universal. However, you believe that if you say it loudly or often enough then people will think you have the only universal belief system or interpretation of it. Wake up.
No more supposed quoting of GOD or BIBLE … I mean (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) really cares what you think your deity wants.
EXACTLY our point my dear. “(WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) really cares what your deity wants” Thats why there is so much sin and depravity and corruption because people stopped caring what God thinks.They only care about what they feel and what they want.Unfortunately just because you dont care doesnt mean you dont have to answer to him later. Its like if you commit a crime and get caught. Sooner or later your going to have to suffer the consequences for it at some time.
Oh Oh Oh… mr.13. You so wrongfully assume that those who do not share your religion have no values of their own. Personally, I believe your morals are hypocritical…. you espouse some form of Christianity and yet you would seek to hurt fellow human beings that do not share the same belief system as yourself. Criminality has no relationship to religion… some of the most heinous criminal acts are committed by the most religious and religious societies do not have lower levels of overall crime. I fail to see your point except that like spewing hateful rhetoric. Some of us actually respect other lifestyles and see a lot more good than harm in acceptance and respect.
How am I harming you? I disagree and of course you dont get it. If you did there would be no discussion.
Mr 13.
You are harming millions of Americans by denying them rights and treating as 2nd class citizens. When a gay partner cannot visit a dying partner in the hospital because the hospital doesn’t recognize their relationship, when a court sets aside a will and testament where property is passed to a partner and determines that brothers and sisters have a prior claim, when being denied partner benefits for insurance and pensions….. how many rights would you like to deny to gays. And so yes, you are hurting people. I could care less whether you agreed or disagreed with someone being gay…. just don’t discriminate against them.
They have the same rights as anybody under the constitution.No more no less.Why do you need more rights than the rest of us?
Because they can’t have their way in God’s house.Gee,what will they do when God destroys them and creates a new heaven and new earth?They will be tormented in front of Jesus and the holy angels forever.
No one is discriminating against them.All they have to do is get a will to tell where their goods go or a living will to say what they want.
Because we have our right to freedom of speech too!
One day you will die and face the very God you reject.Read Isaiah66 in the Old Testament,Rodin.
Because you’re being warned!God Almighty commands us to warn sinners to turn from their sin or they will die in their sin and go to hell.Accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour and repent(That means to stop sinning,gay lifestyle,adultry,etc..)Yes we all have fallen short of the glory of God.No not one is righteous.So I pray for you ,myself and others to come to the truth.Don’t die in your sins….Repent and come to Jesus and be set free!
A few thoughts on religion from Mr. Jefferson………
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
Why did the pilgrims cross the ocean?Gee was it because they wanted to worship God and Jesus in truth and spirit and not be told by a Queen and King how to worship God and Jesus.
That’s a lie.The pilgrims where here first and set up the main government.Thomas Jefferson had a great amount of Bibles in his library.All of the founding Father’s created the law against giving any religion a national church because we don’t want to recognize pagan beliefs.
Get the point,No laws establishing a national religion or the free excersize thereof…
Jefferson quotes II
Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820
Priests…dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820
“All good gifts come down from the Father of lights,God.”
Homosexuality is a bad choice. Or is genetic…well if it is, that means you could take a pill and cure it. right?? Now how many sodomites would do that i wonder???? And one more thing….When a man has sex with a under age boy (i.e. catholic church, or NAMBLA, nutsey pelosie’s biggest caimpaign donar) why is that not called GAY. Sorry homo dudes you guys are gross on so many levels. but your homosexual mafia attacks and attacks good people in this country and basic tennants that made us great… thanks for destroying the greatest country this mud ball has ever seen….but just remember, You 1% of the population are right and the other 99% are wrong.
Here’s to padded seats. ( I notice even elton j is using one ;-o))))
I think you need a complete padded ROOM.
Isn’t it funny how every christian is wrong and you are right.Gee when you face God ,do you think when the angels bind you and throw you in the lake of fire they’ll be wrong?
I didn’t say your were wrong. I said you weren’t respectful of others that don’t share your belief system. Who knows, MAYBE god WILL send down her angels to bind me and throw me into the lake of fire. Until then, I’ve got to live my life to respect others rights, freedoms and their physical person.
Try a padded room for yourself!
Ooooh… the retort! How sharp thy dagger stings.
You’re a funny lady!
I think God will deal with you!I know my rights1st&7th Amendment!
Red hair and blue eyes are genetic and some times stupidity is too.
If you can take a pill to get rid of it, I suggest you get those meds right away.
Typical homo playbook response, attack,attack,attack. First you missed the opening line”homosexuality is a bad choice” And it IS a choice. just like stealing,murder,lying, abortion and other sick, bad choices.
Bottom line you’re wrong, their is no constitutional protection for sodomy. So go back in the closet, keep it to yourselves and quit trying to get the gov’t indoctrination centers to tell our children your normal, because you’re NOT.
Can’t wait for the homo playbook chapter two response. GET HELP!!!!
OK. Chapter 2
You need help for your vile bigotry, hatred and uninformed ignorance.
hey “(WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)” bla bla bla..shut up and go away.
US Supreme Court decided a few years ago in a Texas case the it is constitutional.
When I first became eligible to vote at the age of 21, I was a registered Democrat. As the years went by and I became older and hopefully wiser, I found the Democrat Party had turned into something with which I could not tolerate. So I became a registered Republican. As time went by, the Republicans also had some ideas with which I could not agree, so I became an Independent.
About 10 years ago, while trolling through the radio stations, I came upon a voice that made me stop and listen. It happened to be Rush Limbaugh. For goodness sakes, here was somebody saying what I believed. Rush is not a voice for the Republican Party, he is a voice for conservatives, of which I am. He criticizes the Republicans as much as he does the Democrats if you listen to him. He is pretty right on with his predictions of what will happen. It’s called using common sense and having the ability to see fallacies in policies. Most of the time, after listening to the politicians, I come to my own conclusions, and find Rush, Sean and others have come to the same conclusions. I rarely hear a Democrat or liberal who will stand up for right and wrong. They have bleeding hearts and I guess haven’t heard that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
DUDE< That could be me exactly how you put it. EXACTLY!. I do believe there are more and more of us every day.
I listen to Rush and Hannity fairly often every time I want a laugh and to renew my motivation to work to see that their kind of politicians never get elected. They and their kind are not conservatives even though they claim to be, they are just greedy and hateful people spreading that with their lies to destroy all rational discourse in the country., they are the problem and not the solutions this country very badly needs.
Is there a problem with being conservative and wanting decency and morality?
It says in the Bible that the arrogant man ‘s house will be brought to nothing.
No, but that is not what Rush and his sidekicks are all about, They claim to be conservative but come across
as phonies. They are incapable of having honest discourse with anyone and that ends up distorting everything they say. People that can use rational discourse don’t lower themselves to name calling and making fun of people they do not like or agree with and truth is important to them, none of these apply to Rush and his sidekicks. People are waking up though only about 21 million now back according to the polls he has really dived.
Yeah, right. toc(tonge on cheek)
I trust you are praying hard for the arrogant Rush and Hannity then and I applaud you for that
Rush Limbaugh quotes for “American Citizen”
“The only way to reduce the number of nuclear weapons is to use them.”
“Screw the world. Do you really think we ought to govern ourselves based on what the world thinks of us?”
This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation…I’m talking about people having a good time, these people, you ever heard of emotional release? You ever heard of the need to blow some steam off?” –on the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal
In 1995: “Too many whites are getting away with drug use…Too many whites are getting away with drug sales…The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them, and send them up the river, too.”
In 2003: “I am addicted to prescription pain medication.”
“Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.”
There is no conclusive proof that nicotine’s addictive… And the same thing with cigarettes causing emphysema, lung cancer, heart disease.”
“The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice
robberies.”
“[African Americans] are twelve percent of the population. Who the hell cares?”
“One of the things I want to do before I die is conduct the homeless olympics…the 10 metre shopping cart relay, the dumpster dig, and the hop, skip, and trip.”
“I may be wrong … Lindsey Graham is certainly close enough to [McCain] to die of anal poisoning.”
You and I know the same Rush Limbaugh. I marvel at the lack of responses to your post on this thread.
Funny how all the Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck worshipers here don’t have a thing to say. Their all obviously in total agreement with Limbaugh.
They are all in tow with the absurd herd’s tail in their teeth. Wow what a conga line. Check out the Sara Palin for president tattoos. there every where.
Right on!
I can’t believe you would publicly agree to what Limbaugh says above. I knew you were ignorant, but this is a little too much even for you. I’ll bet you’re one popular chick around the cornmash campfire.
I see the 1st Amendment only applies to homosexuals.We don’t have a right to have free speech,just you.Real unbiggoted of you!
You call people ignorant because they don’t agree with homosexuality.Gee,I guess everybody’s wrong and all the homosexuals are right?When you face God and he has the angels bind you and throw you in a lake of fire what will you do then?It will be too late because you rejected the truth.
This is America not Russia,not China not Islam.I have a 1st & 7th Amendment right and so does Rush Limbaugh,Hannity and the rest of conservative talk radio.Got a problem with allowing them their rights?
I’m not ignorant.I believe Rush Limbaugh has a right to express how he feels even if I do or donot agree with him.
Because someone is for conservative values you bash them.How sad!They have a 1st&7th Amendment right!
I am responding to Rodin, even though a “reply” was not provided. Being sarcastic (referring to the “apparatus” comment) really does nothing to further the discussion.
If one believes in God the Creator they understand that He instituted marriage at the beginning of creation. Perhaps humans think they know better than God so that marriage is no longer necessary. Its an interesting place to put ourselves—-thinking we know better than God how His created beings function best.
You asked the question—are there civil & religious unions? Yes. There are marriages conducted by a minister or priest & there are marriages conducted by a justice of the peace or whatever. I suspect you knew that.
And now we are back to my original statement—that the word MARRIAGE has referred to a man & a woman for a long, long time. The legality of it is another topic. What we call it is already established & I see no need to change it. Be creative & come up with another word to identify commitments other than between a man & a woman.
Sorry Connie… I didn’t ask any question. However, for the sake of clarity, there is no such thing as a religious marriage. There are only civil marriages that are performed by either a priest or JP. I have no problem with what you’re suggesting, which I believe is a civil union concept. What might make sense is to get the government completely out of the marriage game and let the churches or whoever perform them… They would have no legal status whatsoever. The government could also provide for civil union licenses or set up legislation along the lines of common law in several states.
No such thing as a religious marriage? Are you kidding?
What happens when a marriage is dissolved if it did not have a legal document called a license? As far as unions between same sex persons, a legal document is wise, even if it is only a court document that spells out the intentions. Anything less is foolish.
Sorry, Connie… I think my meaning was not presented properly. What I meant was that there is no meaningful instance of religious marriage in the absence of civil marriages. All the marriages I`ve seen performed in Churches, (including my own) already had a civil marriage license. I am certain that there are instances of certain churches which perform their unions in the absence of state involvement, but as a percentage, the statistic is not meaningful
I agree with all of your thoughts regarding documentation and protections
It’s not a marriage.God ordained Marriage.It’s in the Old Testament and New Testament.Nowhere is there an example of two men or two women being joined in Holy matrimony.
Denise, I agree—a marriage is a union between a man & a woman as ordained by God from the beginning. However, people do choose to form same-sex unions. While that is not a MARRIAGE, it still needs some sort of legal document to keep things in order.
Over the years many unmarried ladies have chosen to share household expenses & duties. It can provide companionship without being a sexual relationship. Here is where legal documents would be drawn up for ownership & to detemine how the property is divided at death—a will, if you please. But its not a “marriage”. Its not kinky to enjoy a lifetime of friendship
The responses to this topic have been all over the map for what is a pretty simple question.
Cheney’s support of homosexual marriage will only split the GOP in the minds of the left-handed liberals. They would have us believe it would have some outcome on the direction or success of the GOP. It is another ploy to have the morally grounded conservatives question their own direction. Cheney is not a spokesperson for the GOP, he is a defender of the Bush administration.
Cheney does not fit into the success or failure of the GOP. His views on homosexual marriage is not a platform for the GOP or conservatives. The mental midget liberals tried to use the choice of homosexuality against Cheney and Bush in the 2004 debates. Can you imagine that five short years ago the liberals took the position that homosexuality was unfortunate, but commended Cheney for the support of his daughters homosexuality. Now the liberals want to stir up ficticious division for the GOP for those that might oppose Cheney’s view.
Did any clear thinking American actually think that Cheney would throw his own daughter under the bus for a political stand opposing homosexual marriage? Not a chance! Betrayal and deceit for political power is the Democratic liberal way.
A reply to Debra YOUR POST
June 6th, 2009 at 2:54 am
John S..you may be a very fine person …but for anyone to have sex via the rectum where stool is stored and excreted is not NORMAL or NATURAL!! Also as gay men get older..their anus is so stretched that they are unable to hold the stool and have to wear adult diapers.
REPLY
Other than the fact that I am a gay you have no more Idea what I do under the covers any more than I know what you do.
Where do you get off lecturing me about anal sex? Are so uninformed you think that is every gay person’s preference? I do know however, that anal sex has become quite common among men and women as a means to avoid pregnancy.
From what I read at least it has become pervasive among high school and college students.
Might want to check that out. When you do, you might want to send some of them a complementary box of Depends just in case
John you are right when you say I don
t know every gay persons preference. and that may be the problem between straights and gays. Straights dont understand!!! We have tried...to understand...but we cant. Im not lecturing..anal sex is what we straights cant understand. And you are right about more men/women relationships performing anal sex. We are and have been seeing an increase in emergency room visits (mostly gay men) from bleeding tears,to bowel obstructions from objects being inserted,mutilations of penis and so on. I think we see it as a perversion. We don`t understand your Feelings…is it a deep lasting love,respect for each other,never to stray…HELP us straight people to understand without getting verbally abusive.DebraWhen your lifestyle brings America to ruin then we who are christians have a right to say something against your immoral sex life.
No you don’t. You only have the right to live your own life. You’re a bigot and a hater.
You judge yourself.You are the only ones who get violent if someone doesn’t agree with your sexual perversion.
I’d say gays who smash windows with hammers and call on the phone and say their going to commit vile sex acts on children aren’t haters,huh?
I am telling you the truth in God’s own words.If you call me a bigot because I tell you the truth,what are you?
I want my country to reflect what God wants.
My God and Jesus don’t allow me to be a hater or a bigot.
Hate is breaking windows and calling on the phone to say what evil sex acts you’re going to preform on someones children.That’s hate.Telling someone how to escape the wrath of God isn’t hate!Try JesusChrist!
I’m not a bigot or a hater.My God and saviour doesn’t allow me to hate.It’s considered murder in God’s eyes(HATE).
How would you know what heterosexuals are doing in their bedroom?Are you God now?
B-Man SAID
June 6th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Well it’s pretty sad when you have to find approval from a celeberty. My hero is God and when he says it’s not an acceptable lifestyle choice and that he will not honor that. We have removed the TEN COMMANDMENTS from our lives which make life and how we live it pretty darn clear. This does not make me a hate person, it’s a guild for my life. Im always trying to achieve all 10 but im human. As long as I keep trying we will see in the end who stays up and who gets passed up.
REPLY
Gee G-MAN,
That is some post you had on the ten commandments. I don’t think there is anything wrong with them. Especially the one that says LOVE THY “gay” NEIGHBOR AS THY SELF.
Now I don’t pretend to be a scholar on the ten commandments, but I can rest assure you that we gay guys take at least one of them very seriously, and NEVER violate it.
It’s the one that says THOW SHALL NOT COVET THEY NEIGHBOR’S “WIFE” Trust me,….. you can never get us on that one.
What about covet thy neighbors husband, you poor sick man!
Hey liberty man, I looked up the 10 commandments, and it doesen’t say a danm thing about coneting your neighbors husband, so don’t worry about. Any of your neighbors that would be sick enough to want to jump your tired old creekey bones has nothing to worry about. Their safe with the 10 commandments. He he.
ROTFLMFAO, hey Johnny what the hell took you so long to reply??? DUDE if i’m going to have flaming blog wars with a flamer, I need you to hold your end up (NO PUN INTENDED.)
It said,”Love thy neighbor as thy self.”
Why don’t you start.
I pray for this nation and it’s leaders and citizens every day!
I am by warning you what will happen if you die in your homosexuality,that’s sin in God’s eyes and a christian’s eyes.
I already have.I’ve told you the truth.Accept Jesus Christ and turn from your sin:Homosexuality.When you do then you will be forgiven by God and Jesus.I will pray for you.
I pray God opens your eyes to Jesus before it’s too late.Homosexuals will burn in hell forever before Jesus and the holy angels.Read the Bible and be enlightened.God has the final word!Not gays ,not man,not woman!
Then read:Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6 as you think you can quote only part of God’s word and not know his whole agenda.
Rodin,
I have no doubt that is a valid argument or view point that you have. Each of us has our life to live and we can pretty much do that in America. It matters more what we think of ourselves that what someone else thinks. I just do not see how anyone can compel someone who does not believe the gay lifestyle is morally right to say that it is. We can accept each other without approving. My Mother and Father accepted my but they didn’t always approve of my choices.
Saving money is a good thing!
Peter, I never asked you to accept homosexuality as morally right. Your morals are your own. What I do require is that you recognize that they are individuals and should not be persecuted because you don’t like them. I don’t like my neighbor on one side, but does that mean that I should try and get his ability to vote removed?
Keep your morals, live your life, go to your own church, hang out with others that say they believe the same things…. just also keep them out of the secular legal system which is supposed to enshrine equality and rights for all, including those you don’t like.
Fair enough Rodin. In the interest of that, we could all be a little more civil with each other (as you have with me). Offensive language just stokes the flames.
Words do have the potential to harm as you know.
Hi, Rodin. I feel you are wrong on this one. Our government at this time is based on what is good and right for the majority and some day we will be walking in your shoes. (Not without a fight of course) It is rapidly becoming a world where what is wrong seems perfectly fine with man: Proverbs 14:12 (King James Version) There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. And because of all this happening I believe you just may be around to see what happens to us only for the love of Jesus Christ and you. So be it. We will go out fighting for you and our Christ.
We all do things in life that others consider immoral. It matters not what they think. I eat pork which would be a sin to about over billion people on the planet. I also kill insects which is abhorrent to Buddhists. I don’t like using recyclable bags which is sinful to all the conservationists…. face it…. we all sin to someone elses morals. What matters is we have a common set of secular rights so that we can live together and respect each others differences while behaving according to our own morals, as long as it doesn’t infringe on others rights.
Well, I can’t argue with that. Just talking about the source of morality in America, it comes mostly from Christianity and Judaism. It was never meant to be enforced by laws or nationalized. Faith doesn’t work like that. When you take faith and try to make a religion out of it, that is where we get into trouble.
So really I have to agree that mutual respect is good. If morality is objective, it will defend itself. If it is subjective then it doesn’t really matter what we within limits of societies requirements.
When homosexuals die of aids/hiv or some other std then it becomes a matter of safety for others in society.Thereby the homosexual lifestyle is endangering others.
The old secular humanist argument. Chap 8 -homo play book..
your argument is not well thought out. by your thinking…how i feel when I get up in the morning is the law of the day—good defence for pedophiles…I can hear it now….. it’s okay because I said so.
Mr Libertyman
I’m sorry you did not understand the gist of the argument. The “law of the land” as you call it must have a basis for recognizing that there will be different “moralities” and therefore must be secular. It must also recognize that nobody has the right to hurt another human or infringe upon their basic secular rights – primary among them is security of the person. I fail to see how that supports pedophilia which by it’s definition is harmful to children.
In one case there is no definition and in the other there is. do you even read back what you write.
your trying to use some sick twisted philosophy to justify your behavior. it’s falling flat. it doesn’t follow any moral guidelines at all.
you argument is….i have the right to be a homo and you better accept it or your wrong….isn’t that just about it…but you offer this red herring of an argument…PULEASE..
and believe me, i understand the bait and switch nature of your argument….btw, you lose
I’m still trying to figure out what all the radical Christian Ayatollahs are arguing for in this space. Most seem to argue that being gay itself is a sin and should be outlawed. That’s not the issue. Gay is not a crime. Bashing is.
Where we are at now is whether they should have the same rights to insurance, hospital access and pensions and alimony and support and all the other things that committed couples have automatically if they’re straight. Forget about arguing whether your god likes gays or not… thats F!@#$ing irrelevant because it’s already been decided by the courts. You can’t go around hurting them.
The ONLY thing that’s relevant is whether society gets to persecute them any more as a couple
This argument is right out of chap 1 – homo play book. attack first, then make some specious argument. then state some unknown right. then claim some damage. well done …homo.
It’s the same old crap and society rejects sodomy
Dude – grow up… this isn’t a kindergarten playground and your attitudes have no place in a civilized society PERIOD.
So you equate growing up with homosexuality… and it’s civilized to practice homosexual sex
what planet do you come from?
so because YOU say it, makes it acceptable and normal…this is how you justify a misguide practice WEEELLLL… o righty than… you convinced me (NOT)
you need a better argument than that..
why don’t you just say it….here i’ll help you—You like homo sex and the choice you made to have it.. THAT’S the truth now isn’t it… at least that’s honest..
Of course when you call christians fascists and ayatollahs you’re not bashing them!
No I’m not bashing…. and I’m not calling all Christians fascists… Only the ones that want to IMPOSE their morality on others. And I use the word Ayatollah because in seeking to impose morality, they submit their secular rights to those of their religion, creating a theocracy, where the religious rules must be interpreted by the religious leaders. How is that bashing. I’m simply using a direct comparison to something else you might understand. You could similarly call me an agnostic or perhaps a liberal or maybe a free-thinker… although I’m sure you can come up with your own verbiage.
If you’d ever like to learn about some of the different cultures that inhabit this planet, it might be a worthy education.
When you reject the truth of God from someone you are rejecting God not them.
Denise
He is not rejecting the truth of God, he just saying that in a free society where there is separation of church and state and you have that right, he never said he rejected it in fact I don’t recall he said one way or the other about himself. He has been defending one’s right to do so and you keep trying to convince us we should not have that right it should be the way you say your God said it should be. God gives a free will and even he does not try to force us to accept him and if that is our choice and he will respect that even while wanting us to accept him. You seem to have trouble accepting that.
You imposing your evil on everyone is okay?
Your own conscience tells you that homosexuality is against nature. Animals know better and you will receive your just reward for spreading that perverted lifestyle and the disease it goes with. It has nothing to do with civil liberties or equal rights. Spreading that perverted lifestyle is in the same category as terrorism, murder, rape and every other evil. Look at it honestly or did you lose that ability also.
I still fail to see how your inept brain fails to see the issue at hand. We’re not arguing about whether people CAN be gay or not. (They CAN and they ARE) We’re not arguing about whether or not they can form households, (They ARE and they WILL).. The issue at hand is whether we as a society can discriminate against their civil rights to obtain the insurance they pay for, or whether they should continue to unwillingly subsidize your taxes, plus about 200 other discriminations that are currently allowed under existing law.
I don’t really care how many names you want to call them. What I care about is whether you get to hurt them or not.
THE PEOPLE SAID NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The people decided to strip Jews of their property and that it was right to inflict mob violence on them in Nazi germany.
The people decided that Blacks should sit at the backs of buses and drink from separate water fountains and not be allowed to marry whites in the US
The people decided that all good HUTUS should hack the TUTSI’s to death wherever they happened to be.
Just because you have a MOB doesn’t make what you do right.
IT’s the old compare blacks and jews to homo’s argument. chap 2- homo play book.
HERE is an interesting fact,, blacks and jews are RACES …homo’s are NOT.
Libertyman
No its not,
Blacks, Jews, homo’s, whites and everyone else have in common that they are human beings and created by God and in every category their are gays. It appears that you can only accept part of God’s creations and reject those you disapprove of.
YOU DON’T GET civil rights because you practice sodomy… but it IS right out of the homo play book chapter 9..
So if I understand your argument correctly, homosexuals are not entitled to any civil rights. Does that mean we get to target them for beatings, possibly make them subject to arrest and imprisonment without trials, burn their houses down…. which civil rights are they not entitled to?
And I know you equate sodomy with homosexuality, but it’s a little known fact in the straight world that not all gay men practice sodomy. What about those that just like a mutual blowjob, or handjobs or …. god forbid just cuddles. And what about homosexual women – are they naturally sodomites as well. OR how about straight couples that like a little spice in their life. Do they lose their civil rights if they try anal sex?
And since you’re writing a homosexual play book… I know some people that might be real interested in getting a copy… sort of a gay version of Joy of Sex. Have you practiced all the plays..tested each for mutual enjoyment.. provided diagrams. Illustrations or photos would really help sales… remember kama sutra.
Hey idiot, you already have the same civil rights as a hetero….you want special rights- which are not given in any guiding document. (except for the homo play book.)
Futhermore you are not a homo unless you have homosexual sex….LOOK the word up. IT’S not a race or a political party….IT’S a sex act.
however it does seem to be forming into a religion…one that has secular humanism at it’s core.
homo sex doesn’t = love and love doesn’t = homo sex.. go to any homo club or bath house.. stranger on stranger sex…ever hear of AIDS
spare me your stupid argument it doesn’t hold water. but it is out the homo play book- chapter 7….. I read your book and reject it.
I have gay friends, and even they say it is rediculous, they are very happy with the same right that everyone is afforded in this country, it is the radical left that is wanting to change the definition of Marriage, whats next? is it alright to marry and have sexual relations with your dog, cat, horse, goat, monkey, whatever?????? whatever feels good do it? its my right? well for now the PEOPLE HAVE spoken and it has nothing to do with blacks OR any other race or religion, when you dont like the way thing are going you call them a “RACIST”, that’s a cop out and everyone knows it. we the people might have to tolorate you but we DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT YOU. you cannot force your beleifs down our throats, they WILL be spit right back in your face.
ooops I misspoke, it does have to do with Religion, sorry folks, I got carried away lol
Courts have held that sodomy is constitutional
NO smillieee. they said it’s not “unconstitutional”….BIG difference…. Look smiilllieee,,, go live with your homo choice and shut the hell up. I realize if you like anal sex nothing anyone is going to say is going to change your choice. So live with it and shut up. And smillllleeee GET HELP.
Please don’t get AIDS and cause my health care costs to go up. their high enough now. (see I do care!!)
Homosexuality isn’t a civil right!It’s a sexual preference!
Denise – you poor soul. All you do is bash away at gays. Tell me do you really want to even share a country with them… or are concentration camps the way to go.
Its sexual orientation no preference to it
Hey “ROD in” I see you’re still coming up with your shallow, clever attacks right out of your homo play book. Don’t be angry at us because you chose homosexuality and your butt’s sore. NOT MY problem.
Hey sssmmmmiiiilllllleeeeeee. no study anywhere has ever confirmed that homo is genetic. but if IT was, then it would be considered a disease.
SO should they come up with a cure? like curing herpes, syphilis or HPV (GOT THEM YET SmmiIIilllEee.)
Can’t have it both ways ( or do u HAHAHAHAH)
First off sexual orientation is an absurd way to put something when you want to promote evil.
Hey Rodin, why the (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) don’t you just go to hell early. I am so damn sick of you (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) pumping buddies trying to sell all of us on your pathetic lifestyle and all your comments will never change the fact that two men will never produce or carry a child and thank God for that. I just am so tired of everyday one more (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) selling one more failer plan for this country. God almighty why the hell don’t all of you just shut-up. I and the majority of this country don;t want you or your lifestyle and we never will. Go back to your closets and stay there you rotten stinking filthy waiste of skin.
You already have rights under the constitution.
You’re right… now it’s a matter of ensuring that legislation follows those rights. Most times it doesn’t which is why unjust laws are usually taken to court. Our system of government has three branches and it’s the job of each to look out for the tyranny created by one of them. Hence you had GWB’s so-called Patriot Act which upon review by the courts was deemed to far reaching and was also cut back by congress.
Hey “ROD in” NOW you’re an expert on gov’t……… why don’t you stick to penis’s or do they stick to you (HAHHAhahahaAHHAHA) Man, I crack me up (OH…. I probably shouldn’t have said crack….) heh hahahaha hehheh
dang,you made laugh untill i had tears in my eyes!darn that WAS FUNNY!!!!!
When God burns everything up just like Sodom and Gomorrah ,then when you are starving to death maybe you will remember who the boss is:GOD!
I think most of you have missed the point.
It is not whether we belie in gay marriage or not.
It is the freedom of people’s rights.
The right to not be discriminated against because of their race, sex, religion, or sexual orientation.
Would you grow up! They use phrases like “we want equality” crap and on and on. This is America. We have Laws, Constitution, Bill of Rights ect. etc. Those writings that we are supposed to honor and defend came from God fearing men who used over 800 references from the Bible to put it all together. They did such a good job that practically the entire world wanted to come here for the things that we believed in and the freedoms we offered. All that stuff came at a cost and you did not pay that cost but you sure do enjoy the life here. Now the terrorists, the gays, the cheating spouses and the porn business and the drug happy idiots all want to change what we already had in place. A very well working Republic system. Why don’t all of them get the hell out of here and go find their own Island and live their progressive lifestyles and we will check up and see how well they do. Oh! my-bad. They will in the end. Tooooo bad.
God already told us that evil men would wax worse and worse.It’s no surprise who they are blinded by-SATAN!The lord rebuke you Satan!
Yep we do have and, This is America. We have Laws, Constitution, Bill of Rights ect. and they are there to provide protections to its citizens and were designed to correct against mistreatment of the minority by the majority in addition to other things and I guess if you and your God differ you seem to think you and go ahead and disregard the constitution. But you will not get to do that.
When you die and face God it won’t be did you uphold the constitution.It will be did you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour?If you don’t you go to hell.Read the New Testament and you will see the truth.Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.Then Jesus will submit everyone to God Almighty!
I agree 100% with what you said but what relevance does it have with my post it sure does not contradict it.
If you disagree with the constitution then do you think it was written by Christians? Many today preach that and when listening to them you would think they believe it is supreme to the word of God.
When the laws support evil acts against someone,what then?
Denise Reply:
June 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
When the laws support evil acts against someone,what then?
You can work to change the law and if you are unable to then you accept that. The gays are fighting against evil acts, but you seem to care nothing about those evil acts, I hope I’m wrong.
What evil acts are the gays fighting?They have acosted an elderly woman carrying a cross demonstrating peacefully against the gay marriage.They have smashed windows in a preacher’s house and called his wife on the phone to tell her what evil sex acts they would perform on her children.Gee,I wonder who has a right to protest against evil gay acts?Huh?
We arenot mistreating them.We are warning them like God has told us to do.
Denise I don’t think SSMMMILLLeeEE gets it. but at least your trying…. Good for you.
Sexual perversion isn’t a right.Do you know that gay men want to have sex with young boys and baby boys?That’s what you’re promoting when you support gay rights and gay marriage.Most gays aren’t monogomous.They have several partners.They are very violent people.I don’t advocate hurting them,but they attack little old woman who carried a cross protesting peacefully.They attacked a preacher’s house by smashing windows and calling his wife on the phone and telling them what evil sex acts they would perform on their children.This is what you are supporting when you support gay rights and gay marriage.
When God destroys the harvest,the land and this country ,it won’t matter what rights you have under the constitution.Wake up and realize we have our government bacause of God and pilgrims who crossed an ocean to worship God,Jesus and the Bible in truth and spirit.Are we so far from that now?We will suffer the consequences of our sins,if we continue to say that anything is okay under the constitution.Watch out.
i am sure the perverted inhabitants of the cities of sodem and gommorah as well as the ones around it thought that way as well before they were crispied by god!
I think most of you have missed the point.
It is not whether we believe in gay marriage or not.
It is the freedom of people’s rights.
The right to not be discriminated against because of their race, sex, religion, or sexual orientation.
There is no sexual orientation “right” you just made that up. it’s right out of chap 2-homo play book.
The courts have not ruled on this and the Constitution is silent on this, but they did rule that sodomy itself is constitutional, you may not like that but it does not change it
Since when is a sexual perversion constitutional?
Who said it was, what I said was the court has not ruled on this as yet, and it is silent on this issue per say, but they have ruled on sodomy and did find it constitutional on a case from Texas and over turned the conviction of the two individuals who brought the suit to the Supreme Court. I don’t remember when but would guess it was about five years ago, time goes fast. It was a big story at the time. You don’t remember it??
Wrong… sodomy is unlawful in 17 states.. what does that mean anyway. IT DOESN’T mean anything. Abortion is “Legal” and both are heinous acts. you’ll not get justification in main stream america. that why you’re trying to get the twisted freaks in the obama administration to justify your sick behaviour.
SO SORRY YOU made the homo choice… SOOO leave me and my family alone …..and GET HELP!!!!
If they rule sexual perversion constitutional,what’s next,it’ll be okay to rape a baby boy because you’re a gay male?
libertyman Reply:
June 25th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Wrong… sodomy is unlawful in 17 states.. what does that mean anyway. IT DOESN’T mean anything. Abortion is “Legal” and both are heinous acts. you’ll not get justification in main stream america. that why you’re trying to get the twisted freaks in the obama administration to justify your sick behaviour.
SO SORRY YOU made the homo choice… SOOO leave me and my family alone …..and GET HELP!!!!
The laws in seventeen states may still have them on their books but the Supreme Court has struck them down so they can no longer be enforced. It a obvious you have a lot of contempt for the law of the land because you do not like the law. There are many who think your behavior is sick too. The help you suggest I can very well do without. Thank you. Obama administration?? It was the courts that determined these were constitutional. Don’t know much about history either do you. Just strike your anger out at anyone innocent or not and you think I need help.
SOOO you never heard of the 10th amendment….. s-dude. what do you do just make stuff up??????????
libertyman Reply:
July 1st, 2009 at 9:01 pm
SOOO you never heard of the 10th amendment….. s-dude. what do you do just make stuff up??????????
What does the 10 amendment got to do with it????? It was the court that ruled that it was unconstitutional thus the states, none of them can have can have laws against sodomy. States can make no laws that are not permitted them by the constitution that is what the 10th is all about. Very familiar with the constitution to bad you aren’t or at least you do not understand it.
You people, like our government, have been and always will be part of the downfall of America. Your pathetic views on morality and how you deserve to live your life, life are of this earth and Satin runs the earth. He has fully intended on taking down as many people as he can, people who fall weak of living for God’s purpose and just like Eve, after she was asked not to touch the fruit of only one tree out of thousands and she couldn’t do it because she was easily decieved like all of you are. You listen to the crap that these morons spit out everyday without one though of Truth. Its The devil working on weak humans and I guess your just to stupid and weak to stand on priciple. Each generation needs the values and consistancy that our founding fathers obviously understood and instead of thinking that because we live in different times all the basic values should change to fit this and future generations. Completely the opposite. Their core values are just starting to make more sence than ever today. Every single successful individual will tell you that as they get more and more successful they need more and more mentorship in their life. But you people think that mans laws and the governments laws mean something. The only laws that mean anything are Gods laws and you will find out. When applied, I have never seen any of God’s laws hurt or harm anyone. There is nothing about God that is violent. He has laws and he has consiquences, just like any good father would teach their child about right and wrong. Not always comfortable but always in our BEST interest long term. (Like Eternity?)
I believe he also said Give on to Ceaser what is Ceaser’s and unto God what is God’s. Does this not tell us all to respect our man made laws as well, that being in the USA as the supreme law, the US Constitution. It appears to me you have a great disrespect for it.
The premis for my statements was based on the perfection of our Bill of Rights and The Constitution. They are perfect just the way they were written and should be honored for all time. But people get it in their heads that, if I don’t like that rule and I don’t believe in that law and are always comprimising what is in those documents to fit the feelings of today, then we are standing on sand and basically we have no truth or foundation to keep us in check. It’s like shooting an arrow with no target. Where do you aim? People do what is convenient not what is right. There are over 800 references from the Bible in both of those documents and in almost every presidents diaries somewhere they referenced a quote from the Bible in speaches or memos. Washington and Linclon were probably the stogest in their faiths. God was so previlent that they put it on our currency and in our Supreme Court. This would most likely make us a very stong Christian nation in values with a melting pot of other faiths and beliefs living here in this country. But the core values of this country were set in stone by our founding fathers and they framed those documents based on what they believed and how they believed our country could withstand for all time. The fact that this administration wants to destroy the rock, change the value system which changes all of the meaning behind our documents to the point that they have almost become trash, is what is making me pissed off. I love those truths and my granfather and father faught for those truths and this group wants to spit in the face of those men. It’s the direction of change and what is being changed that is why Im pissed off. How can we respect what they are doing to our values, documents, morals, finances, takeover of private industries which will eliminate competition, and expect to have a free nation of creative , dreamers , and inovators when we are going to be silenced, and controlled, and taxed to the point that you can’t afford to be in business. It’s not just a Nation of Laws but the substance behind those laws that sustain their value. Why if your married don’t you just go out and cheat on your wife every night or kill someone each day? What holds us accountable, It’s not some stupid peice of paper. We have a moral value behind every law that gives it purpose. Otherwise its just words on a paper that say don’t do that. Without value the words are empty. People are born with those inate feelings inside but where and how they grow up influences them over time. We know right from wrong, or stress, pressure, depression and all those feelings would’nt exist. They are the result of how someone acts on a good choice or a bad choice. Bad ones eat at you and effect other decisions in our lives. I respect our laws in this country, but I do not respect what this administration is turning our laws and values into. We cannot kill babies, we cannot distroy the sanctity of Marraige by tainting it’s magnitude of importance with an immoral and scewed vision of an un-acceptable sexual lifestyle. What they do behind their doors is between their maker and them. But a Country that has a Christian Based foundation ,a Constitution and Bill of Rights that used 800 references from the Bible to frame it’s laws, cannot condone a lifestyle that God himself said very clearly and associated it with adultry, murder (murder?) and stealing under the instituion of Marraige. God talks about the responsibilities of marraige in more than 20 different areas in the Bible. It’s the direction in which our system and it’s laws are changing that I was trying to get out.
Not if they disagree with the word of God.Paul the apostle said,”I will obey God and preach in the name of Jesus rather than obey man and not preach in the name of Jesus.You seem to think that the 7th Amendment doesn’t apply.Our right to our belief and the free excersize thereof.
Denise
I think you mean the first amendment, not to familiar with the US constitution are you , does that also apply to the Bible? I quoted the words of Christ, is that not the word of God. Why is Paul’s words more meaningful to you than Christ’s, Paul is talking about preaching and please feel free to preach all want but we are not talking about what you or Paul preaches or why, we are talking here about laws that force a persons behavior because you refuse to respect those people who have behaviors you despise . I really wonder how God does feel when he watches and see his gay children are so badly disrespected.
Respect the law as long as it respects God.If it promotes sexual perversion it isn’t law abiding.
So if they made a law tomorrow that it’s okay to rape a baby boy would you just agree with it and not fight against it?
Respect the law as long as it respects God.If it promotes sexual perversion it isn’t law abiding. Would you break the law then and go to jail if sentenced??
Denise Reply:
June 25th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
So if they made a law tomorrow that it’s okay to rape a baby boy would you just agree with it and not fight against it?
I will not address such a stupid statement
Paul the apostle of Jesus was told by rulers to stop preaching in Jesus name.He didn’t obey them.Do you think it’s right for the gays to silence christians(1st&7thAmendment).I had to study the US government and the constitution to pass highschool in 11th grade.A requirement.
Yes we’re suppose to obey the law unless it goes against God.Paul was told not to preach in Jesus name but he preached in Jesus name fearing God more than man.
Yes we are to pay tax,but not without representation.
You can't be a true American, you can't be human. Freedom, freedom, freedom? People"s rights?. Right to murder, rape, spread perverted ungodly adulterate, debauchery to our sons, daughters, children and grandchildren? What land are you from? It is Right, I repeat, It is Right to discriminate against all this sick, debase, perverted evil! Purify and purge this evil from your mind and God given land. You only sicken and weaken a nation to bring these evils on U.S. Why do you think your Muslim brothers and sisters strap on bombs and try to do away with these perverted infidels. You think they want these preversions in their land? Animals know better. What happened with our morals and pure thinking? Hide behind "EqualRights" to practice evil? No. No. You wont be cheated one bit from the bountiful reward you will receive for joining hands with that evil.
Ray, I think you have to distinguish between christianity as a religion and being in a personal relationship with God. That is to be born again as Jesus says in John Chapter 3. Not everyone who goes to church, gets married, and is a nice guy is a true believer. Nicodemus was a pretty decent guy. christianity as a religion has been responsible for all kinds of horrible things such as the inquisitions.
The old “christians kill people” argument…Chapter 7 -homo play book.
Interesting you compare murder to sodomy…Hmmmm
Wrong Libertyman. I am not a homosexual, never have been. I am sorry that America is going the way it is but it has been doing so for 30 years. It may not be convenient for you that it is, but guess what, if you read Revelations, you’ll understand what is happening.
Pete, no truer words were ever spoken. I bow to your wisdom.
Pardon me for thinking it was another homosexual quoting scripture to prove a point.
Much like Jesus on the mountain and the temptations.
I have read Rev. and it’s astonishing to watch scripture play out. but scary.
“You will have tribulations,but be of good cheer. Jesus already overcame the world.”
God Bless!
Thank GOD for you and your courage – Glen Beck – and may GOD keep you safe and give you the strength to carry on! P. M. Woods
Glen Beck? Oh for Gods sake. Seems I just saw him at a book signing…..Oh that’s right ….he wrote the homo play book. Asked everyone if they wanted him to sign on any particular picture of him. Did nothing but bitch about the lighting and make-up in all those graphic bedroom seen pics.. One lady said Beck you just proved a point. You can put all the lip stick in the world on an (WORD REMOVE FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT), but it’s still an (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).
Wait….that was Beck wasn’t it? Damn, now that I think of it it could well have been LIBERTY MAN. I mean after all, who knows the HOMO PLAY book chapter and verse better than him.
Hey John, BLA, BLA, BLA, More homosexual hate for the good things in the world.
I know you homo’s all have the play book, so you know what to say tommorow. and you go to your homo propaganda web sites for marching orders.
none of you have the first orginal thought, hell you get your brains pounded everynite..hahahahahahahaha ho ha hee hee.
NOw thAT’S hOmO pride.
I’m tired of you guy’s and your self serving arguments. shut up and go away!!!
“We get our brains ponnded every night” What gets pounded is what’s in your hand right now hand right now.
HeY joHnny you juvenile sick twisted dude—what’s “ponnded” hahahahaha
LooK here JoNNyboy, Go do what ur going to do and shut the hell up about it….OK…main stream america finds your so called “liFestYLe” disgusting…IF you think your going to finD justification here….sadly your NOT . GO AWay..
Libertyman,
Apology accepted. I get it wrong all the time. Is okay. It is hard to see America losing its real purpose to spread the gospel and offer liberty to the oppressed.
Buddy, just because someone ok's homosexuality, murder, breaking our country etc, does not make it right. Look where this "christianity" has brought this "christian" country. Where our so called "Christian leader" and cabinet can stand up and lie, kill, steal, and destroy in the face of the "christian" world in order to make money off weapons, etc etc etc. Jesus is surely going to have a bit to say in due time, since all these so called "christians" are too weak to open their mouths or do any thing about it. "Just believe brother, just Looove." This weak washed up "Christianity" with all the homosexuality, ungodly, debatestable, debauchery. And these weak so called "christians" with no self-control hideing behind Jesus. " Don't go judging me" Buddy, judge and save your ownselves. What does Almighty God say to do with this evil? "Just love brother, just love". What did Almighty God say to do with this evil? You won't listen even if Jesus or an Angel came and told you. "Equal rights"? "Discrimination"? These God given blessings belong to those that submit to Almighty God, not those that continually practice evil. Wake up, think! Love Almighty God, hate evil.
Ray your rantings drive me crazy, but based on your absolute disgust with equal rights, I have a question for you.
In Iraq there is a small area (i could be wrong) but I think it is Mosel that has a population of Arab Christians. These people have been there for a long time.
They have always had the right to worship and adhere to their Christian beliefs and customs in safety even under Sadom. Now we have changed the leadership there these people are constantly harassed and disrupted.
Muslim factions now in power feel there should no tolerance for Christians, and now the Christian population is under siege.
Iraq changed from a dictatorship to a democracy thanks to us, but under the new democracy, these people are living in in utter hell because they are christian
Do YOU think they should have an “equal right” to live and worship how they want? Or, since the majority of the Muslim population sees them as infidels should majority Muslims have a free hand to kill them and or run them out of their city, and banish them to the bare deserts.
I mean come on, the majority thinks they are disgusting infidels. No equal rights for them.
I reject the premise of your argument. How you can compare two men engauging in anal sex to these saints is just sick and WRONG. but… it’s right out of the homo play book chapter 12.
What’s next, teaching our children your normal…oh wait your trying to do that now!!
It used to be corrupting the morals of minors to do this.What’s next,sex with anything you want?
Muslims who respect christians and their belief can remain in our country.But the extremists can go back to Saudi Arabia,Lebanon,Syria,Dubai,Jordan.
Oh!!! the old ‘”dying fag” argument… Chapter 5-homo play book.
The world is not divided into sheeps and goats. Not all things are black nor all things white. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories. Only the human mind invents categories and tries to force facts into separated pigeon-holes. The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects. The sooner we learn this concerning sexual behavior the sooner we shall reach a sound understanding of the realities of sex. ~Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, 1948
Absolute sychobabble.
Thomas Paine: “Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.”
Whats cruel is to justify homo marrige. marrige is a religous function, always has been. a union recognized by God. Is that what the homo community wants????
Yes it is. well society rejects that and you….IT’S just that simple.
Keep your civil unions and shut the hell up—thank you
Libertyman
I’ve been married to the same woman for 40 years. It’s not about me.
Do you talk to God or maybe you just know more.
poet…what’s your point …I read your posts and what are you trying to say. Congrats on your 40 yrs. That’s unusual in todays anything goes society. God Bless you.
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
From the time I was a kid, I have never been able to understand attacks upon the gay community. There are so many qualities that make up a human being… by the time I get through with all the things that I really admire about people, what they do with their private parts is probably so low on the list that it is irrelevant.”
Paul Newman quote
Rodin your comment…. ‘And please do get and education and perform some rudimentary research’.
Hey, I am never to old to learn. I was posing the question to you rhetorically. I know it was God who initiated the covenant of marriage. And He did so between Adam and Eve.
I am not uneducated. I do know that correct English would be ‘an education’ as opposed to your comment, ‘and education’.
You sound narcissistic. You have no tolerance for anyone’s comments, regardless if they are well thought out and articulated in such a way as to not be threatening. As a Christian, I try very hard not to offend. I only take that approach when someone offends me. I guess that makes me human.
I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. I also do not agree with marriages where one partner takes a lover outside of marriage. My list could go on and on. I shouldn’t have to list 50 things to make my point. Nor do I have to be rude and offensive.
God’s Word is my standard. I didn’t create the standard, He did. Any issues you have with my beliefs you will have to take up with Him. The day is coming when that will happen. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. You can believe that! Everyone, including you will be a part of that spectacular moment in eternity.
Robin, I have never said that I am in favor of forcing churches to perform or sanctify marriages if it runs counter to their beliefs. Catholics don’t like to let divorced people remarry and there’s a whole lot of other Christian churches that don’t want to sanctify the bonds of love between two women or two men. That’s fine for the Churches… they can do whatever they like…. I have no bones with your religion or your practices unless you start doing things like marrying off 13 year old girls to decrepit old men.
So what I’m not forcing the churches to marry gay couples, then what am I arguing for? Hmmmm. How about the STATE. What I want to see are secular rights of gay couples made equal to those of straight couples. Regardless of whether you believe in their lifestyle or not, they still have rights.
Now maybe you believe that a non-Christian should not have rights in our society or that a moral transgressor should not be treated the same as your neighbor (assuming your neighbor is not the moral transgressor), but in a civilized society, we need to recognize and respect our differences and have a basic set of human rights that everyone is accorded. Respect first.
You can have your standard and live your life according to what you believe in. Just please please keep it between you and your god and don’t try to spread the hatred and bigotry to the rest of society. As for me and my God, she and I have an excellent relationship.
God is love.It’s like a child being corrected if he sets a forest on fire.He gets reprimanded.God is reprimanding you in Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.You are a child because you refuse to listen to God and Jesus.Jesus said,”I and my Father,God,are one and the same.”That means Jesus agrees with God’s wordin the Old and New Testament.He said,”I have come to fulfill the scriptures not do away with them.”
You can’t respect sexual perversion or witchcraft or anything God hates.God said,”Pagan beliefs will be thorns in your eyes.”God knows better what we need.We’d better listen to God before we’re destroyed.
God Bless you!!!!
Rodin…
I wasn’t given a reply to your last comment to me (under #20).
You said, ‘Robin – please please please get educated before you speak again.’ What puts you in the position of telling me to get educated? All of the hateful and obnoxious things you have written, doesn’t make you better than me.
At least my values and morals top everything you have said on this blog. Once again I will say, my standard is God’s standard. Where did you get yours?
Because your lack of an education is showing through. Most of your comments are ignorant from the standpoint of understanding history, social structures and politics. You appear to believe that the ayatollahs can run this country and have no respect for the secular institutions we set up to protect your rights to believe in what you want while at the same time live peacefully next to a neighbor that may have completely different beliefs. It’s the set of secular rules we generally call rights and freedoms which allow this.
Your values and morals are just that – YOURS- and you’re free to hold on to them, as long as you recognize that the secular rights need to be above them on this earth. Otherwise we get priests telling us that we can’t marry someone of a different caste or race. We get mullahs telling us to kill infidels, we get popes wanting to take back the holy lands, we get Inquisitors killing all the Jews and women, we get the puritans hunting the witches…. the list goes on and on and on. In order for people of different faiths to live together, or even a single faith to live without being subject to a religious tyranny, we need a set of secular rules which overarch our individual beliefs. This allows you to practice your own faith while at the same time riding the same bus sitting next to a lesbian or colored person or Muslim. It comes down to respect and basic human rights.
If your god lets you disrespect others to the extent of excluding them from society or holding away rights and freedoms from them, then that is between you and your god. You two can talk about it when you meet. However, your actions on this earth are subject to secular laws, and these exist so that we all can live peacefully together.
If God burns up and floods every crop and the land becomes barren,then you might figure it out.
I did not say I agree with everything Rush says. But his analysis of government policies are usually right on. He does tend to run on at times about things but he has a 99% rating on what he says is the truth. I don’t mean his opinions on some things that don’t affect us, but on what the government wants to do to us. This Obama administration scares the bejeesus out of me. I fear for our children and grandchildren. Their quality of life is going to go down which is opposite of every other generation.
Furthermore, addiction to prescription drugs is no laughing matter. He admitted it and had to go through rehab. Also, his comment about white people getting away with doing drugs is also right on. There would be no problem with illegal drugs if people wouldn’t use them. Look at the people who die every day because of them, the users and the sellers both as well as innocent bystanders.
Rush is a VERY well paid entertainer. He laughs all the way to the bank. He openly calls his listeners DITTOHEADS as in sheep.
Rush makes no bones about being a bussiness man first, and tries to be as controverial as possible. People love him and people hate him. Most importantly people listen to him and keep his ratings high.
He’s very clever and well informed. Take him with a grain of salt. The Messiah he ain’t.
I know he calls himself an entertainer, but he is also a political analyst. He can see the results of different pieces of legislation if it is put through. He reaches the same conclusions as do most of us who have any intelligence. He is just a voice for conservatives. As he said, he has no power to affect your taxes, or any other aspect of your lives as do those in positions of power in Washington.
Calling us “dittoheads” is just a term of endearment. I hear people call in all the time who are conservative and don’t agree with something he said. And he always puts Dems and Libs at the head of the line to take their calls. I have never been able to get through on the phone, so I send him an e-mail once in a while, especially if he says something with which I don’t agree.
American Citizen you say:
“This Obama administration scares the bejeesus out of me.”
Why??? We all see things differently don’t we, I see Obama as the best administration that has happened to this country in my lifetime, (I’m a senior citizen who has voted for every president since I was old enough and my first vote was for Barry Goldwater) he seems to be able to understand diversity better that any before him and this country is now more diverse that any time in the past and someone who understands this will better guide and lead us as a nation in coming to terms with that issue. Those in our country who do not like diversity will of course not like him. Conservative talk radio spends hours daily trying to reinforce this dislike by promoting their biases and hatred for him and the ditto heads will repeat again and again these words and concepts in hopes that Obama will fail and those they are opposed to these having the same rights they do and repress the rights of those they despise for one reason or another.
Signing tax money to murder the unborn Mexican babies is just okay ,HUH?
There you go again, spinning the words of those you respond to, you again spun mine,I did not address that issue and it is clear that you missed my whole point. Please reread and try and use an open mind so you will know what I said and not what you want to twist my words to mean so it fits your agenda.
SMMMILLLEE you are damaged goods….where did you get all that hate from…..never mind (retorical question.) I hope you get better someday… Don’t bother responding… the bottom line is your wrong…there is no middle ground… even though your ilk is trying to force it on a moral, good world and destroy the basic tennants that made us great.
Also history shows the rise of homosexuality in a society before it’s destruction.. LOOK IT UP.
thanks for the milestone. I do wonder what it’s like to hate everything except a sex act. it’s scary…are you posessed or something. I got to say I don’t get it…… and hope I never do.
Libertyman Reply:
June 25th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
SMMMILLLEE you are damaged goods….where did you get all that hate from…..never mind (retorical question.) I hope you get better someday… Don’t bother responding… the bottom line is your wrong…there is no middle ground… even though your ilk is trying to force it on a moral, good world and destroy the basic tennants that made us great.
Also history shows the rise of homosexuality in a society before it’s destruction.. LOOK IT UP.
thanks for the milestone. I do wonder what it’s like to hate everything except a sex act. it’s scary…are you posessed or something. I got to say I don’t get it…… and hope I neverVDO.
Oh but I will respond, you will not have the luxury of defining me. You are so closed minded that you could not possibly know me or anyone here therefore you are incapable of defining anyone. You can’t respond intelligently to my posts. The only thing you say that is probably accurate is “I don’t get it……” you certainly don’t sir. Not that I think you care but I am very fine, thank you.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!
soooo hear we go again with the homo play book. CLOSE MINDED hahahahaah….. it just gets old. I love this wounded homo act (chap 11.) you are such a homo bot spewing your talking points….. WE HEARD IT and we are over it and your choice. ..so be a nice little homo and go back in the closet….when you go to your homo meeting this month tell them… you homo’s need a new message. the old one is worn out…
Homosexuality is a mental disorder-Dr. Freud…yeah but he was a (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)
libertyman Reply:
July 1st, 2009 at 9:14 pml
libertyman
Apparently you chose not to answer the post I pasted below I have not read or seen your homo bible so I cannot comment on it. My previous post also answers this post of yours. I have drawn my opinion by having an open mind and reading the constitution and trying to understand all sides to this issue. I doubt you will believe this but I a totally heterosexual. You may think you know it all but you don’t, your words make that crystal clear.
Reply:
June 28th, 2009 at 12:31 am
MY REPY TO:
libertyman Reply:
June 25th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
NO sMMIllee. your reaccuring theme is to invoke the name of God to stop opposition to your sex acts….very clever..but it’s right out of the homo play book chap 4…most homo’s won’t use chap 4. but you have no fear of God do you??? you put sex above it all…what a barren life you have…..but your not the first to make that choice and won’t be the last….. unfortunately. we are all sinners but not you, RIGHT ssmmmIIilllleeee.
WRONG, WRONG, I am a sinner and as Christ was the only man on earth without sin I am flattered that you would conclude that I am without sin and thus equate me to Christ on that basis but you are dead wrong and I think it demonstrates your lack of knowledge of the Bible. The homo playbook, I’ve never seen of heard of it but from this and many of your other posts here it is clear it is like a bible to you and you quote it like it is gospel. It’s also clear that it must not have been written by a gay person as I cannot conceive a person with your beliefs would quote so freely from it if it was. My guess its probably written by someone without the background or knowledge to do so as and probably has an biased agenda similar to yours. Being I have not ever seen it much less read it my posts in no way are a reflection of what you allege and my statements reflect only my own beliefs. I can assure you you know knowing of my sexual activities and I I am amused that you would make such a ridiculously stupid statement which says more about your character than than it does about my sex life. I love God. and have no doubt He is completely OK with me and my sex life. I have a very fulfilling and rewarding life and that is the reason why, I also find your name “libertyman” a joke , your post here and the other posts of yours I have read brings me to the conclusion that you care nothing of the liberty of those you dislike or despise and selfishly care only of your own and would exercise that power over those you despise if you had it. I thank God you do not.
Smilee, the present Admininstration scares me and it has nothing to do with diversity. I honestly think Obama is a Muslim at heart. He was raised as one. He is trying to take this country in a direction that will be an America we will not recognize. Our children and grandchildren will be paying for it, not just monetarily, but with the loss of freedoms. When the government is in control of each aspect of our lives, our Constitution will not be worth the paper it’s printed on. If you don’t see the arrogance and narcissism that is in Obama, then you are not a good judge of character. It’s the Liberals and Democrats who are blindly following him as they see him as a Messiah. Beware of smooth talkers.
Right now the ACLU uses our tax money to oppress christians,the Democrats are trying to pass S909(hate bill)and the “Thought Control Bill”thanks to Ted Kennedy.Then christians won’t be able to speak freely against the gay agenda.We’ll be jailed for speaking God’s truth.Gee,that’s real constitutional of them.
Obama was raised as a Christian his dad was a non practicing Muslim but left them when he was two He saw him for a short time when he was 10 and not again, he was killed in a car accident when Obama was a young man. His mother and grandparents raised him as a Christian. You thinking different does not make it so, could it be that believing that makes it easier for you to hate him? I think the rest you think about him is pure fiction but you want so badly to believe it because of your dislike of him. There is no evidence of what you say and because you did not present any I suspect you have none as none exists.
The only ones that say they see him as a messiah are Sean Hannity, Rush and their sidekicks apparently you bought into this BS. I know of noone you refer to as liberals who think so and I ‘m sure I know a lot more of them than you do. As far a judge of character, how would you know, being as far off base you are in your judgment. If you can believe he is Muslin absent any evidence how could you possibly judge anyone’s character. You sure come off as a phoney to me.
Denise I’ll bet your afraid of your own shadow too. What a bunch of fiction and the sad part is I fear you believe it. I feel sorry for you.
I didn’t vote for Obama.He’s not a citizen and should be impeached for that.Even his paternal grandmother said he was born in Kenya.
Well folks, hate is wrong and will never resolve this kind of issue, neither will the government. This kind is a personal issue. I feel that even though the gay life style is wrong and considered a sin, that there is nothing wrong in allowing them the same contractual benifits that are found in marriage, for tax purposes and such. But to call it a marriage is wrong, but then that is my opinion. God will never bless this kind of relationship, but then they don’t want to be blessed in that way, just by secular law. And according to prophecy it has to go this way to fulfill all that is to come to pass. As much as we the christains would like to see them saved and brought into God’s fold, they do not have the sight or hearing to make it. Some where down the road of life it could happen, because God’s word will not come back void, it does what God sent it to do, so all that has been said will be productive some where some time. God bless all of you, even the gays!
And god bless you too Kim…. We’ll respect your right to believe in the teachings you want and we’ll both live respectfully side by side.
NO you WON”T…. YOU’LL keep trying to convince everyone you’re normal …you’ll never be happy. because you know deep down you ARE living a lie….wait for it………THERE it is…but you just keep go ahead it:::: suppress it….. no mental health issues there……
Leave us alone… STOP forcing the issue on us. but you won’t
Enjoy your LIE.
Hate is murder in God’s eyes.But God doesn’t support perverted sex acts.That’s what the homosexual lifestyle is.I love my enemy but I don’t condone their sin.
There is a lot of noise in this comments section.
Let’s get back to fundamentals. Jesus himself forbids divorce (Matthew 19:8), as does the Catholic Church.
Should Christians actively seek to support politicians who advocate making divorce illegal, and actively oppose politicians who want free adults to make their own choice?
Now let’s ask the same question about gay marriage, which is also forbidden by the Bible. Do you have the same answer to the “should Christians actively support…” on gay marriage as you do on divorce? If yes, you are consistent. If no, why not?
How refreshing!!!… a specious, meaningless argument right out of the homo play book and talking points.
What your talking about in your secular humanistic way is SIN. But you have the appearance of logic and the heart of deceit.
GOOD TRY (NOT)
HOMO play book chap 6 a(1) make a stupid argument see if somebody buy’s it, then argue. your goal is to win the argument.. then this will prove everything you say is right..
EXCEPT for one thing, I REJECT the premise of your argument. so NO argument………. yOu lose and homo is still wrong.
silly joNJay.. geez even your name is homo..did mommy make you a homo jOnny
Where do you get the idea that Jesus said he was against divorce.He clearly states that if an unbelieving spouse leaves the believing spouse isn’t bound to the marriage.
I don’t support gay marriage.Why?God shows us in the Old Testament what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah because their sin of homosexuality cried out to heaven.God burnt them up.Even the land in present day can’t grow anything.That’s what will happen to America if the gay agenda keeps going.God is merciful but God has limits too.
AMERICA, AMERICA, ONLY IN AMERICA!! where your Free to pass laws for abortion, gay rights, phornography, drugs and alcohol legal, take pray and discipline
out of schools, colleges, public events,(that is in the name of Jesus prays). Laws that
slap the hands of rapists and child molesters and call it justice, sexually perverted
advertisements on T. V.,sit-up organizations that steal elections and millions of dollars, and are government funded by the American Tax-Payer (Acorn) one of them.
Point is, they use the Freedom of our Constitution, for the freedom to sin and pass
laws to sin. The fault lies on us (the so-called Christians). This used to be a Christain
Nation, and for those who think it is now, what a joke!! We will soon be totally government run and are already OWNED by a communist nation called China. That’s
a fact.
A comment which makes sense. No name calling, cussing or skewed data! Mostly on point. Folks are in for a rude awakening!
I have been to Asia,and although the Gay lifestyle exist there as everywhere else. I do not know of any of them supporting marraige amoung Gays. This kind of marraige is an abomination to what mankind is all about. In acient times Gays were stoned,so why was that done if being Gay was a proper life style? We can not and should not give to such behavior. It is an attack on the moral fiber of mankind. So what are we afraid of? We need to stop giving in to this idea of “Politically Correct”,it is a ruse to further ruin our country.
As for rape and other related crimes,there is only one penalty,(DEATH)I am not sugesting that we do that,but the idea is if you are going to put someone in prison then let’s do it.
Also in the Philippines,if a woman has lied about having been raped then she gets a jail sentence as well. Sometimes a woman will cry rape and the man is ostracised for the rest of his life. This would go a long way to help aleaviate that. Some one who is guilty deserves to pay the price,but they should not have to suffer when they are in fact not guilty. So what do you say,why not penalize the one who cries rape too?
I’m not slandering you but you slander christians by calling them fascists and ayatollahs!
Not slandering… merely calling you what you are. You would impose your morality on those with different beliefs that do you no harm. How is that not fascism? And the Ayatollahs, they believe what you do, that the secular law should be determined by the church leaders.
Again I ask – how is that different than you imagine?
You are slandering!You are going to answer to God and Jesus.As one person said,”Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”Read 1Romans18-32.Then try to argue with God,you’ll lose big time.
Boy It sure is east to pick out the Limbaugh Lemmings on this thread.
Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Just one request to the Chicken Fried Ditto-heads.
I can hear your teeth clicking when speak your words insanity.
Then, there are the other ones who have that annoying whistle when they pronounce (S’s) and (C’s)
I bet that could be fixed if, when you retrieve your teeth from the soaking jar you’d take a channel lock and bend some of the front ones either back a little or forward a little.
Now for the disgusting clicking sound.
Napa Auto parts sells an aerosol spray that puts a rubber coating on tools to keep them from rusting. I’ll bet a little shot of that on the back biters would keep that Morris Code sound to a minimum, especially when you are quoteing those Bible verses.
Now I really don’t expect that to inject much common sense in your out look on life, I’m sure it will be as “SOUR” as ever, but…………..Oh it just dawned on me,… that spray for your teeth I recommended is called LEMMINGS AID.
Tune to Rush Limbaugh tomorrow, for the DITTO HEAD update.
He is offering a coupon for 10% off the tall can of LEMMINGS AID when you buy 3 cans of cat food.
As “rOd in” imposes homo on the world—— homo play book chap 7
And “john s” attacks,attacks,attacks———homo play book chap11
Same old HATE different chapter….SOOOO typical. give it up
(BTW HUSH LIMBOT IS homo neutral) but i’m sure you never listened to him. BUT it doesn’t stop you from talking out of ignorance…kind of like your homo arguments….it’s getting old guys
We aren’t bigots but you are.You wish everyone to accept your evil sex life as okay.It’s not normal.Get the point.If all that existed was homosexuals there’d be no one because it takes a husband and wife to have children.Not two men having sex or two women having sex.
I have not seen anyone here say anything about accepting your sex life, it is you that keeps trying to tell others what their sex life should be, so why is it you want to interfere in other peoples sex lives. You need sex for procreation but not procreation for sex.
homo psychobabble—index, homo play book
You seem to have a brain block.It’s God who will send out the angels and throw all who offend or do evil into the lake of fire.Get it.If you think God is a bigot you are blind.
Denise, I feel your pain. What the world needs now is love. Relax… nobody’s going to hell…… we can all feel the lightness if we rid ourselves of the sins of righteousness.
You’re the only bigot.You will go to hell if you refuse to turn away from being homosexual.
So you’ve just changed the definition of bigotry to include being a homosexual. Regardless of whether I am gay or not, it’s none of your business what heaven I go to. I called you a bigot because you want to discriminate against an identifiable group of people. I don’t discriminate.
Denise, Roden and John are the tag team gays for straight blogs. I do think they get paid to do it. How else could they have the time to reply to so many people. Dont waste your breath. They have a hand book with what to say and words to type bold and big words to use. It has in it few facts to use but it is just all excuses and justifications. All hate spewed leftie lib blablabla. Check out this site below.. Samesamesame. Roden might be pretty decent just doing what she thinks is right but john there is certified sicko.
Here is the blog you can cut and paste their things on both to save time. Oh and to Roden. Jesus Loves you.
http://www.personalliberty.com/news/supreme-court-upholds-law-on-gays-in-military-19215580/
First I don’t imagine that being homosexual is okay with God.I know what Leviticus18:22 states.Want to call God a bigot for stating the truth.
Denise, you are sounding far too hateful. The message is LOVE. Let your Father worry about men’s souls. Preaching your hatred only serves to divide.
I see when we state the truth in God’s word then it’s bigotry.But when you call us bigots and fascists and ayatollahs that’s not hate speech,huh?
The problem is that you seek to justify hatred and bigotry and hurting by using your god’s name. That
s been a pretty common theme throughout history. Everytime the Christo-fascists want something they say that its gods will or that god wants it that way and they justify murder, genocide, war, conquest, discrimination and a whole host of other evil. Your friend that killed the doctor used a similar argument and a whole host ofgood Christiansargued that he was doing gods work in saving a lot of unborn children. Your good christians supported murder.I can live with the vast majority of Christians, they respect my right to live my life, and I respect their right to live theirs. You on the other hand have no respect for anybody that doesn
t live according to your understanding of god. Grow up and realize that other people have as much right to be on this planet as you do. You have way too much hate and you justify it by saying its because god wants you to hate. Great religion you have.Denise
Rodin is trying to live according to Jesus’ teachings of loving his/her neighbor. Please stop your spewing. Love from Jesus is more important than any of the Old Testament words. They were useful until the world needed more love. Your father’s son came down to show the world that love was all that mattered. Trust me…. your heart will be lighter when you accept Rodin joyously and completely.
Exactly the point, Denise, if all accepted God’s word, the Bible as the authority for our lives, we would not have this mess. There would be healing and love and concern for each other. Telling the truth is not hate speech because it is the only thing that can set us free.
No harm?I see breaking a pastors windows in his house for preaching the gospel is okay?Calling on the phone to say what deviant sex acts they’ll preform on their children is okay?
It isn’t my morality,it’s God’s.Want to argue with Almighty God?You’ll lose!
WE are neither fascists or iyatollahs.You misunderstand someone warning you to repent and come to a Saviour who can spare your soul and body from hellfire.
Go Rodin and get some help.You are the only one bashing anyone.
I’m not bashing- you have the right to live your life and follow your own morals. Why you want to infringe upon my right to do the same, I don’t know.
I’m noy infringing on your rights.You are infringing on my rights when you tell me I can’t speak God’s word.My 7th and 1st Amendment rights!I will pray for you.I don’t hate any body.God has the final say so.Anyone who claims God or Jesus and goes against the word in the Bible is a liar.God is love but God doesn’t condone homosexuality.If you have a problem with that,take it up with God!
Denise…Your dealing with ignorant deceit w/ rodin and the john’s (boy that’s funny “the johns” hehe)
All you can do is hope they don’t get some kinda sex disease and cause our insurance rates to go up..
Science has proven, homo’s die early. sooo the problem will take care of itself
Trying to promote a lie that two men and two women can be Mommy and Daddy is a big,fat lie!
Because AIDS/HIV spreads sickness to others in this country and other countries.
To rodin: If she were a turtle, then my friend, Id be in the same boat as you are, having to find some kind of a answer as to why I am doing what I am doing, but no matter what Id come up with, it would fall short of convincing God is was right.
I’m sure it would. She’d be awfully slow too.
Really slow my man.
You can’t be slow in the US Army fixing searchlights,microwave,mindetecters,wireequipment,CVC helmets,and other wire equipment.You run alot too!
It says in the Bible that God has made some people vessels of wrath.Made to be destroyed by God.So perhaps that’s your end Rodin.I’d like to think you would accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour and turn from homosexuality.Then you would be able to live in freedom and know that when you die you would be welcome into paradise.
I see you pick a turtle,one of God’s creations.At least they aren’t stupid enough to listen to the devil and say their gay!
Rodin,get a life.You really are redundent.God help you to see the light like what happened to Saul who became Paul.
Warning: They Are Now Becoming Violent by Perry Stone
In the days of Lot, the young and old men had given themselves over to very vile sexual perversions. This is why the name of the city was called “Sodom.” The Bible tells us that Lot was “vexed daily with the filthy conversation of the wicked” (2 Peter 2:7). We are told in the book of Jasher that there were four judges in the five cities mentioned in Genesis 14:1-2. The judges passed laws that beds could be placed in the streets so strangers entering the city could be laid in the beds and sexual acts could be preformed on them (Jasher 19:3). Thus it was the judges who voted for organized perversion to be allowed in the cities. It doesn’t end there.
When the two men (angels) entered the city, Lot met them at the gate and demanded they stay in his house. At night, the men wanted to go outside and check out the city and Lot told them not to. It was too dangerous. Suddenly, the old and young men came to Lot’s door and wanted the two strangers to “know” which means have sexual relations with them (Gen.19:5). When Lot refused, he shut his door and the man almost broke the door down, burning with their lusts to have these two men! It took a supernatural act of God (blindness) to prevent the rape of two men!Here is the point. When the men of Sodom became violent against the righteous, the following day Lot escaped and the fire fell on Sodom, making this famous city a pile of ashes. Recently in California, the people voted down gay marriage, saying that they believe it should be between a man and a woman. Immediately, the gays began marching, then protesting in front of churches and then in some areas began entering churches, screaming, threatening and throwing bulletins. One older woman in a march for marriage was confronted by gay men, who began shoving her, causing her cross to fall to the ground, where it was stomped on.
I was very disturbed to hear what just occurred in San Francisco. Two women were on the street praying in the gay district. Suddenly they were noticed and hundreds of gay activists rushed on them, throwing a blanket over their heads, taking the Bible and hitting them on the head, and threatening to kill them. As they began to sing Amazing Grace, the gay group began singing “We shall overcome.” Eventually the police were called and told the women to leave because their lives were in danger. As I read this article on World Net Daily, I began to realize that God did not send judgment to Sodom until they became violent against the righteous!
It is either a sign or a strange “coincidence” that when the courts in California passed the gay marriage act in May of 2008, immediately lightning began striking all around the Bay area. In a few weeks there were 8,000 fires burning throughout the state. After the vote in November that banned gay marriage and the protestors began to march, fires began to burn down the homes of many wealthy individuals in California.
Remember, the judgment that came against Sodom was a judgment of fire. Josephus wrote about it when he said;
“Two daughters still virgins…for those that were betrothed (engaged) to them
were above the thoughts of going and deemed that Lot’s words were trifling. God then cast a thunderbolt upon the which and set it one fire with its inhabitants and laid wastethe country…” – Josephus: Antiquities Bk.1; Ch.11
Notice the word “thunderbolt.” Did massive lightning set the city on fire? Whatever occurred, it happened after the Sodomites became violent and threatened the righteous. In the New Testament there is a strong warning about any nation that follows the same patterns of Sodom:
“As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” - Jude 7“And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly.”
- 2 Peter 2:6
We have already seen the devastation of two American cities on the coasts: New Orleans and Galveston, Texas. Do your own research, and discover the hidden clue as to what may have (and probably did) remove the protective hedge from this area. It is sad, because it “rains on the just and the unjust,” and just as Lot lost his home and had to relocate, many good people have had to relocate from these cities. However, God does take care of those who will follow him, despite times of great difficulty.We are in a season where we will see selective judgment. Is the economic crisis a sign of the removing of America’s golden calf? Time will tell! It is time to preach the truth and stand with the Word!
©2008 – 2009 Perry Stone Ministries — Site Design by WinWorld
Amen General…but doesn’t the Bible also talk of “throwing pearls before swine” and what ever happened to that city.. I think you have alot of swine here. All you can do is pray for their misguided souls..I will.
Hey dude. Thanks for the “General” But gen. means generation. My cuz is a general and I dont want to take credit away, even anonymously from any of our men. I have been praying. A lot. Which reminds me. Jesus loves you Roden.
I stand corrected. and I was in the military.
It’s scary to watch revelations play out before my eyes. I pray I have the courage to stay strong.
but it’s tough when you read sick twisted rationalizations for sin but I guess this is our cross to bear.
Here’s hope, “You will have tribulations, but be of good cheer, Jesus already overcame the world”
Thanks for your service. I have a lot of family in there and a son-inlaw in iraq now. I listed some on the gays in military only so people know I might not have gone but I know enough family to know where as I speak. It ois sad to see all this. I like it here for as (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) as it can get. Ill be spending time with my kid and go on some vacations and enjoy the time we have left. I pray you are so blessed and all of you here that keep the faith. And to Roden. Jesus loves you.
It used to be that gay men and women would lie about their homosexuality to get into the military.Now they are telling the truth about their preference.It is a preference.I just hope they don’t assault anyone sexually in the service.Yes,I know heterosexuals are just as capable of doing this too.I was in the Army and encountered heterosexual married men who hit on me.I put them in their place by telling them I would report them to the First SGT.I suppose because of sexual harassment that that is why the military wouldn’t allow gays.I know I would have issues with giving mouth to mouth and being near bodily fluids of gays.I might catch the HIV/AIDS.Yes that is a legitmate concern.
On GOP and gay marriage – doesn’t even nature itself teach us that it is wrong for man to lie with man? That is so clear! The GOP needs to take a stand for what is right. I have been a memeber of the GOP for 39 years but I am really thinking of going Independent just because GOP is too liberal and will not stand up for what is right. Come on GOP! Lets get back to the values of our founding fathers.
I agree completely.God Bless you!
To St.John the Baptist,You seem to think it’s okay to let someone go to hell and not do what Jesus said,”Preach the gospel to all the world.”That means I have a right to warn Rodin and anyone about accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and turn away from homosexuality or any other sin.That’s love!If you argue with the word of God you will lose.That means the Old and New Testament.
You can do nothing to prevent anyone from going to hell, yes I too believe we should witness the gospel but just witness it, we were not called by Christ to be God’s juries, judges or executioners and discriminating against anyone for any reason is not likely to be pervasive in getting anyone turned on to Christ it probably it will drive them further away from him. To witness to anyone you need to first respect them just as they are. Calling down fire and brimstone on anyone if they will not do as you wish will defeat your purpose.
Very true. But whether we get chastized or abused for it or not, we sometimes need to say what people dont want to hear and they will turn on us for speaking the truth. I dont believe in hating on anyone, but I believe in spreading the truth. I am a white guy, and if I see the Ku Klux Klan professing their hate of black people, sorry, Im going to speak up and tell them they are wrong and full of hate. Does that mean Im hating on them – No. Im speaking the truth. If I see gays and tell them God’s word say’s it is an abomination to the Lord for a man to lay with another man as he would a woman, does that mean Im hating on them – No. I am speaking the truth. This is Gods word, and Ill stand by it even if it is unpopular. It has nothing to do with my opinion in either of the above instances. It is wrong to hate someone because of their skin color, because of what they look like, because of who they are or how they dress, or any of it. But it is also wrong to see someone doing something wrong, and not to speak out against it. God calls us to love one another, whites, blacks, asians, hispanics, it doesnt matter. He also calls for the union of man and woman, and refers to same sex behavior as having been “defiled and demented” in their heads. As an abomination to Him. As”being given over to their sexual immorality”. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out. So yeah, Im saying it, being gay is wrong, perverted and immoral. Does it mean I go out and strike down gays? No, hell no. Rather, I pray that God would bring His light into their world soon, that they may know the blessings he has for them. That is love. But as for me, they pretty much would rather strike me down dead. I tolerate them and pray for them, and would even defend them against someone raising their hand upon them, yet they would just as soon strike me down and silence me, and do away with me and my kind. There is no tolerance there. So I have to ask, who is the real haters? Actions speak louder than words.
Gays beating up old ladies carrying crosses.Gee is that hate/assault?
MARK
I have no quarrel with your words and I agree with many, as I said you should witness to anyone God inspires you too, and your right, actions do speak louder than words and it is your actions I oppose for that is the real hate and the pain it inflicts on those you despise. Your proposed actions not your words bring me to that conclusion.
Smiley, my actions as stated would be to defend a gay if someone was trying to beat on them because of what they are, so why do you say my actions you oppose? If they march, I dont go out and confront them, I give them their space to do what they want. I do not oppress them. I do recognize the wrong in what they do in following Gods word, according to Gods word, not my word, not my opinion, but what God said about it. You want to box with Him you go ahead, Im not going to. But dont say my actions hate, because they dont, and no where in here do they. I would defend a gay getting hated on in the same way I would defend a woman getting hated on, or a black getting hated on, or a Christian getting hated on, or a muslim getting hated on, if they were getting hated on for what they are or what they look like. But no, I wont defend their lifestyle because I dont agree with it. But condemning it isnt my job either. Dude, my ex brother in law was gay. Ive probably spent more time in close quarters with gay people than 90 percent of the population, and Ive never felt uneasy about it, or about them. Ive accepted them as my fellow human being, despite the fact that they and I have a different out look and opinions on life. But I am a Christian, and no I cannot accept their lifestyle. That does not mean Im a hater. I give them the same respect I give my own brothers and sisters, or anyone on the street. But I will tell you this, because I am a Christian, I am not given the same respect by most in the gay community, as they look on me as their enemy, which I am not. Actually, truth be told, Im probably their best friend but they wont accept me for what I am. Kind of screwed up deal if you ask me, that I can be kind and outgoing and accepting, but I dont get that returned to me. But like Ive said in other posts, its socially acceptable to hate on the Christian. But unlike others, I dont need to hate back. Understand that.
The old “HOMO”S get beat up argument” chap 6 homo play book.
life is tough dude, stay in the gay bar with your own kind and avoid the crazies in the world.
I’m white and there is neighborhoods i wouldn’t walk thru.
But you don’t hear us normals whinning like you guys.
MARK QUOTE “I don’t need to hate.” NO but you need to ram your apostate life down our throats. and if we complain you break out the homo play book and come up with some stupid argument Like the whole “homophobe” thing. actually you guys got some mileage with that one. it was brillant. so here’s the bottom line marky…homo is wrong and 99% of us normals believe that…
SOOO DEAL WITH IT. and shut up and go away.
Sorry… not MARK…smilee
Also Smiley my man, you are correct about the fire and brimstone stuff. It doesnt work, rather it chases people away from Christianity. A few years back when on vacation, I looked up a local church to go to when Sunday came, and allthough here I attend the Missionary church, I went to this Baptist church in Tennessee, and I was appalled at what I heard. This pastor was yelling at people that they were going to burn in hell if they didnt come up to the alter right now, and I thought “what is this guy doing”. If I were a person on the edge of belief, or a non-believer, Id never step foot in a church again. No, the Gospel is to be administerred in love, plain and simple. But I do have to take issue with what you said about “respect them just as they are”. No, I cant have respect for someone who is doing wrong and tell them its ok”. I can treat them with respect if thats what you mean, ok, yes you are right then, but I wont respect a lifestyle that is contrary to the Bibles teachings and tell them its ok to live that way, whether it be a gay lifestyle, a drug addiction, alcohol addiction, or whatever. I wont tell someone that it is ok they do these things, because it isnt. But I do believe that no matter what kind of sinkhole some may have gotten themselves into, that we are to treat that person with a human respect. I hope that is what you meant. I like your style Smiley, you and I can agree to disagree on stuff, and talk to each other like human beings. Thank you for that.
He’s telling you the truth in the word of God.If you reject the word of God you reject God.If you argue against the word you will lose.
That’s what’s coming to all who reject JesusChrist as Lord and Saviour.
Now you are arguing with God’s word.God states the heaven and earth will pass away but my word will never pass away.
Dang libertyman, until I saw your other post, I was thinking why are you attacking me? Smilee isnt gay, and he is adamant about proposing his side of things, and though I personally think he is wrong, I have to agree to disagree with him. Thats what makes this country great. There are gays. I know it is wrong in God’s eyes. Smilee thinks its ok. He thinks I am wrong, I think he is wrong, but him and I can argue like adults and agree to disagree. We say our say, and move on. I cant regress to the name calling and degrading thing, allthough 10 years ago I was probably one of the worst at it. But I did experience a change in my life when I asked Jesus in to my life, and I try to approach things better now. It doesnt help me to try to help someone change for the better like I did, when Im chopping them up and tearing them down. I had to give that up, and there are those in here that are lambasting me for my Christian beliefs and calling me a hater, well thats on them, because I assure you if I was a hater I wouldnt be praying for these guys and girls. But I am praying, and am praying that I dont become judmental again as I was years ago. But I will cite what Gods words say about things, and if someone turns that into me being judgmental, then thats on them also. Gods word judges, not me.
Yeah Mark. MY Bad.. please forgive
The problem is not that homosexuals have sex. that is between them and God.
The problem is with the homo community and THEIR intolerance and hate toward me and my life style (I hate that term- comes out of the homo play book) They started it, I didn’t. I didn’t care until the homo’s made me care. well I’m not going to lose
And their stance is, they’re right and everyone else is wrong.
WELL I DON’T AGREE!!!! Leave the kids alone, you sick twisted freaks.
The school systems are teaching my children a homo friendly message. Which is against my belief sytem and what I teach my children. What gives them the right!!! that ought to make the homo’s happy to hear that.
I reject their sins and my own.
AnD THEY SAY I DON’T HAVE THAT right. screw them.
The word of God is the judgement.I am only warning as the word of God requires so Rodins blood isn’t on my head like the Bible warns.
Accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour is the only way tobe saved from God’s wrath coming on the ungodly!
I’m not judging them.I’m warning them.Get the difference?If you think Jesus calling the pharisees and saducees brooder vipers was wrong and unchristian,then you are decieved by Satan.I don’t hate homosexuals.I don’t call evil good and good evil.Sexual perversion is evil.
Denise
So, its evil, may I be so bold as to say all sin both yours and mine are evil in God’s eyes and we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So why do you feel you should legally control by man’s law the sin of those who have sin you despise and wish to punish them. Should we make laws so man will have the right to punish all sin even yours and mine. Would you like that? It is OK to hate the sin but it is not your place or mine to force or punish the sinner for his sin and unless it puts you in jeopardy of limb or life. It does appear to me that you view the gay persons sin as different than your own and that is one of my definitions of hate.
OH smmmiillEEee, give it a rest, more homo psycobabble—- Index homo play book
you argument is with God…good luck with THAT.
Denise, I believe we all have stated our case well here, and its time to move on. For it is written, “Do not argue with a fool, lest you become one yourself”. You know, its the old “you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them drink” thing. God has called on one to plant the seed, another to water it, another to make it grow, and one to harvest it and bring it home. You know, to score the touchdown. Ive never gotten the touchdown yet, but Ive planted plenty of seeds and spread a lot of water, and I think that is what He would like most of us to do. Those that get the glory for the touchdown are probably better prepared than I to accept the glory that comes with it. Keep watering girl, and administer the Gospel in Love.
God tells me if I don’t warn someone about their sin and they die in it,God will require my head because I didn’t warn them.I’ve warned them.Their blood is on their own head now.
He never told to us mistreat them in the process and I think your methods are just that. You also got this mixed up and twisted.
I can tell them to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.That’s all they have to do to be saved.Believe on the Lord JesusChrist and you shall be saved.
I’m not judging,God’s word will do that.
To Peter Melville,Accepting Jesus doesn’t mean accepting evil sexual perversion.God hates homosexuality.Read Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.At the judgement these books will be opened.If you think God condones wht he clearly states he hates you are listening to Satan.God is not mocked whatso ever a man sows that shall he reap.i.e.Sowing carnally is death,physical and spiritual death.Sow to the spirit and you reap life eternal.
Ezekial called down fire.You seem to think the two witnesses in Revelation won’t do what it states.You will see the devil come and rule on earth for a short time.Do you think the rapture is a fairytale?Read1Thessalonians4.I’m not twisting your words.You reject the truth.God is love but he doesn’t condone sexual perversion.
Smilee,Do you advocate promoting AIDS/HIV?That’s what gay sex promotes in society.That’s what you advocate promoting in our society.Yes,it affects others through contact of bodily fluids or sharing needles or blood transfusions.I follow God,Jesus,and the word of God.Not laws made to uphold sexual perversion.I don’t hate gays,but I have worked for two gay older men who ran a restaurant,but even they didn’t like flaunting their bedroom habits in front of everyone.They said,”It’s disgusting the way young homosexuals flaunt their sex life in the public eye.”
What??? The majority of AID cases in the world today are with heterosexuals. Homosexuals as well a heterosexuals have this disease. It was first discovered in this country in the gay community but the majority here and in the world is now is in the heterosexual community. Those that still seem to hate gays still insist it is a gay disease and still use it to promote their agenda of discrimination against them.
Guess again.I was 15 years old when Mass General Hospital quaranteened homosexual men because of AIDS.
So, I’m talking about now and this post of your changes nothing I said before
That’s because of sin.
The sad thing is HIV is the only disease with civil rights. It’s against the law to ask any one if they have it. and it’s killing off the homo’s. isn’t that tragic. For instance if your 3yr old child is in a day care. the day care CANNOT ask a parent if their child has HIV.
So lets say this child bites your child. now what happens? Why would the homo community lobby for this…
I’LL TELL YOU WHY. their sex act is more important than you child…THANX HOMO’S
HIV people need to be quaranteed, just like, TB, swine flu,bubonic plague etc. etc. how terrible, these people are selfish children
The only reason that is true is because of the continent of Africa,where there are 60 million AIDS cases.
St.John the Baptist,Do you think God doesn’t want homosexuals to turn from their sinful sexual sins:HOMOSEXUALITY?He’s waiting very patiently for them to come to Jesus and turn from their lifestyle.He waits for drug addicts,prostitutes,drug dealers,etc.to turn from their sin.That’s why Jesus said,”Come boldly to the throne and repent of your sins.”That’s why christians pray every day for their enemies,etc.
That Denise, is the very thing that sets us apart as Christians from the non-believer. We know we are sinners, and we know that from time to time we fail and give into temptation. We know we are not perfect. But we know one who is, and that if we get down on our knees and pray for forgiveness, Jesus will wash us clean of our sins. Some think this gives us a free pass to sin, as they do not understand that to ” Repent” of our sins, doesnt mean to confess them to God, but to turn away from them as much as we can. You and I do not try to reconcile any wrongful deeds we do to exonerate ourselves. We recognize when we have failed, and faithfully acknowledge to the one on high, Jesus Christ, that we are sorry for what we have done, and recognize it was wrong. Those is this post seem to either not recognize what they do is wrong, or they just dont care. Some are one way, where they are in the dark and cannot even comprehend what they are doing is wrong, and some are belligerent towards God and say screw you and do what they want. I myself, dont live in a gray area where everything is allright, do whatever you want to do as long as it makes you feel good. Its not hurting anybody. I cant live there, sue me. I live in a black and white area, where right and wrong, good and bad, holy and evil are as clear as clear can be. Am I perfect? No, not even close. I fail miserably, and I dont mean to, but I do. Sometimes Im not patient enough with others. Sometimes I lose my temper and say bad words when I hit my thumb with a hammer. Sometimes Im not as loving with my wife as I should be. Sometimes I dont give enough time to help someone that needs it, or I see someone with their car broke down and I dont stop to help them. There are many things all of us could do to make it better for others, but we just fail to do it a lot of the time. But I hear from folks that tell someone “you go to hell for this, and you go to hell for that”, and its just not true. One doesnt not go to hell for being gay. One does not go to hell for being a murderer. One does not go to hell for being an adulterer. One does not go to hell for being a thief, or a molester, or a child abuser, or a politician or a lawyer. No, you go to hell for one reason and one reason only – failure to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Thats it. You dont have to do anything. No amount of praying, or giving or working for charity can get you into heaven. You cannot obtain it on your own, let no man boast. It is a gift of the Grace of God. When he stretched out His arms and said “I love you this much”, and took the nails for all of us, it was all done for us. All we have to do is accept Him as our Saviour. All other religions have to chase around and do this and do that to earn your way to somewhere. All those founders and gods are dead and buried in the ground. My God Jesus Christ is alive and well, and judging by the Scriptures, which say in end times you will see more and more floods, earthquakes, tornadoes, fires and destruction, and it says in the end times wrong will become right and right will become wrong, well to me it would summise that its pretty close to that time. This belief in Him is manifested in the fruits we bear, bringing others to Him and witnessing to His name, whether popular or not. To be prosecuted for His sake is a blessing unto us, and as in the letters in this post, we are indeed being blasted for our beliefs, and being called haters by many, because we care about them. We are not returned this care, nor will we be. All these things I cited early, being gay, being a murdered, being an adulterer and all these things, these are the fruits of unbelief. They tell a tale of that person’s belief system. But not I, not you, not Rodin, not my friend Smilee, nor none of us will make the judgment on each other. That is saved for but one, Jesus Christ the Lord on Judgement day. A wise man once told me, that if you werent sure where you were going, you probably werent going to where you want to go. Im sure where Im going, and I dont care what anyone says, I want every last single of one of you do go with me. I dont want anyone to miss the boat. Its going to be a brilliant ride. Please get onboard. Im out.
Smilee,I don’t view their homosexuality any different than any other sin.I state God’s word.Something you seem to object to.You too will be at the judgement of JesusChrist and the Holy Bible ,along with other books will be opened.The only way your forgiven is if your sins are covered with Jesus blood.That can only be if he’s your Lord and Saviour.That means trying to live and be holy.Perfect,no.It means warning those and praying for them.
I will remind you of what Jesus said,”The adultress women was about to be stoned and Jesus said,”Those among you without sin cast the first stone.They all dropped their stones because they knew they were sinners.Jesus said,”Is there anyone here to condem you?She said,”No.”Jesus said,”Go and sin no more!”
Why do you say I object to it, totally false and another inaccurate statement you are making about me. I am a Christan and because of it I respect all of gods children even the gays with the same respect as anyone else. Judge not least you be judged, Christ also said. That will be address on judgment day as well.
Respecting them as a human being is fine.But don’t help promote their evil lifestyle or you will account to God for promoting what God hates.
It’s okay to pray for them but it’s in the Bible,”What does darkness have to do with light?”
If you are a christian,you would agree with God’s word,Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.You wouldn’t uphold the homosexual agenda.Yes we treat them as human beings.We don’t uphold their perverted sex acts that lead to HIV/AIDS.That’s harmful to the rest of society.
You say the scriptures are twisted.I worked for two older gay men when I was 19.They didn’t worry about gay marriage or gay rights.They said,”It’s disgusting the way the younger gays flaunt their lifestyle in public.”
Yes Denice You are right. Gays flaunting their life style in publid is almost as discusting as all the heteros flaunting theirs. The addage that Sex Sells was based on heteros lapping it up in public every where not gays.
I’m not gay.The judge not unless you be judged means I would have to be gay.
I’m not gay!The ascripture states,”Don’t judge if you are doing the same sin.”
No denise, you are wrong again. The scripture you think you know says, “you who are “without sin” cast the first stone”. The second part YOU need to learn is “Judge NOT lest ye be judged.
Smilee,What actions?My words have been out of love.God is very clear about their fate if they commit homosexuality.Are you areguing with God now?
This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.
By Dalai Lama
We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.
By Jonathan Swift
Today, I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
By Adolf Hitler
There is one name under which men must be saved, and that is the name of Jesus Christ the Lord.
GOD
Satan is a liar!Who do you think Hitler represented?Satan!Satan appears as an angel of light.I don’t advocate killing anyone because they’re gay.
Norm do you have a point????or did you just waste those electrons for nothing
Denise,Libertyman
Religious experiences which are as real as life to some may be incomprehensible to others.
opinion, United States v. Ballard, 1944
My point is that your opinion of gay people is a valid point of view. Your hatred of people, woven together with your twisted religious bible belching (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT), is beyond belief. I am a Christian and I am not gay. Your view of Christianity is why Hitler could justify his actions. God is good not evil. Let Him handle sinners not you.
Right on Norm,
I wonder if any of these who disagree with you will ever acknowledge that God will handle the judgment and handle us sinners, It seem they are competing to get the jump on God. Do you suppose they think God will consult with them first. They say they love the gay but from their words and actions it looks more like hate to me.
Norm, i enjoy your mediocrity. I’m sure your a moderate. moderate= no opinion. To associate hitler with todays fight against the homosexual mafia is simply, good time, i’m ok your ok, 60′s, hippie speak. it’s guy’s like you that have let it get this far. you pussy.
yeah, thats hate. I hate the fact that people like you stand by and let things like this happen…kinda like obama and iran. poor Neda, what a shame.
and norm don’t encourage sssmmmilleee boy, he’s disturbed enough…………. no reply needed norm* and norm you will stand by and let evil prosper??… how sad………………………. and ssMMiiLLEEee…. YOU… jumping on the God bandwagon…what a jokE. I’ll pray for both of you
Jim Jones was another liar from Satan who told his followers to drink poison.Jesus already warned against false prophets and false preachers.
Libertyman
I know it’s way off subject, but Obama’s response on Iran was about right.
In case you forgot or maybe never knew:
Iran is not a part of the US and is not our’s to control.
Our sabre rattling only aids the current Ahmadinejad adminstration by showing the US to be an imperialistic power.
Comparing Iran’s situtation with our rev. war or 9/11 is ridiculous.
Mousavi, the election loser, and his wife had an active role in the success of the Iranian revolution. He was imprisoned for organizing street protests against the monarchy of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. As the Iranian revolution neared, Mousavi, whose earliest political hero was Che Guevara, became more actively involved in the struggle. Soon he joined ranks with Mohammad Beheshti, who was a close associate of the revolution leader, Ruholah Khomeini. Some improvement!!
Mousavi also started the nuke program that now threatens our Friend Isreal. Norm you missed the point, obama didn’t stand up for our values. he played politics with it. at least “W” stood up for stuff (even tho he was wrong on some stuff.) I really don’t believe obama has christian values. and I’m not saying that to get you, or anyone mad or make points in some stupid political argument. I really believe that..Am i judging his heart…no… his actions.
I also wonder if obama isn’t setting up the world for the anti-christ return. I have no other explaination for that fits.
But Norm, you got to stand up for something. moderate’s got us where we are today. wasn’t there a scripture that said something along the lines of “if you are lukewarm I’ll puke you out of my mouth.” Please, the fight for biblical values is at the forefront of our lives.
All the shades of grey do nothing but sully the waters in the fight. Bottom line=
It’s a fight between God and satan for our souls. just that simple.
God Bless you and your family. and may God have mercy on the USA
If Hitler had read the real Holy Bible and not a Roman Catholic Bible,he would have known that God states,”Whoever blesses Israel I will bless.Whoever curses Israel I will curse.”
Denise, if it were not for the Catholic Bible, there would be no Protestant Bible.
Norm,Hitler came from Austria and he was a Roman Catholic.The present day pope was a nazi youth in Hitler’s day.I stay away from such evil men.That’s why Jesus went off on the pharisees and saducees who were also hypocrites.Jesus called them brooder vipers.Much like some of todays priests(pedophile priests).I know it states,”No not one is righteous.”It’s by faith in Jesus that we are saved.Not by works lest any man boast.Faith without works is dead.That means like Abraham I walk my life in faith trusting God in everything.
Hitler was born a Catholic but didn’t belong to any church. Germans are about half Catholic and half Protestant.
The pope belonged to the Hitler youth by no choice of his own. I think its unfair to call him evil.
Denise, the German youth in Hitler’s time were forced to join the military. It was just like our young men when they reached the age of 19 were drafted. The only difference was that Hitler’s henchmen forced them to join at a very young age. In other words, they were indoctrinated, much as the public schools are doing to the children here.
It’s like a child running out in front of a car.The parent chastises the child so he be safe.God chastises us through his word and through tornadoes for the wicked.
To St.John the Baptist,If Rodin where following Jesus he wouldn’t be a homosexual.Jesus said,”I and my Father are one and the same.”That means that the word of God applies to Jesus,Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.Do you think Jesus went against God’s word?No he came to fulfill it.That means he hates homosexuality.He doesn’t hate the homosexual,just their sin.
Denise
I don’t think rodin ever said he was homosexual, in fact in one post he talks about the church he was married in nor have I heard him say he didn’t follow Jesus and you do not know weather or not he is a christian unless he tells you so. Remember Christ also said Judge not lest you be Judged.
He hates all sin yours and mine as well, why is it you seemed to be so fixated on the gay’s sin and no other sin?
That’s “Judge not lest ye be Judged!”If you are doing the same sin then you aren’t to judge!
Ok I was working from memory, your right but it means the same, have you not yet come to the conclusion that I will not judge the gay person or treat them with disrespect, who have I judged, I have questioned no ones motives here. I think we should let God judge them and accept them here on earth just as they are. Many here and you by your own admission are not willing to do that, you want to treat them as second class citizens but to do so some judgment about them has to me made about them,
NO sMMIllee. your reaccuring theme is to invoke the name of God to stop opposition to your sex acts….very clever..but it’s right out of the homo play book chap 4…most homo’s won’t use chap 4. but you have no fear of God do you??? you put sex above it all…what a barren life you have…..but your not the first to make that choice and won’t be the last….. unfortunately. we are all sinners but not you, RIGHT ssmmmIIilllleeee.
MY REPY TO:
libertyman Reply:
June 25th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
NO sMMIllee. your reaccuring theme is to invoke the name of God to stop opposition to your sex acts….very clever..but it’s right out of the homo play book chap 4…most homo’s won’t use chap 4. but you have no fear of God do you??? you put sex above it all…what a barren life you have…..but your not the first to make that choice and won’t be the last….. unfortunately. we are all sinners but not you, RIGHT ssmmmIIilllleeee.
WRONG, WRONG, I am a sinner and as Christ was the only man on earth without sin I am flattered that you would conclude that I am without sin and thus equate me to Christ on that basis but you are dead wrong and I think it demonstrates your lack of knowledge of the Bible. The homo playbook, I’ve never seen of heard of it but from this and many of your other posts here it is clear it is like a bible to you and you quote it like it is gospel. It’s also clear that it must not have been written by a gay person as I cannot conceive a person with your beliefs would quote so freely from it if it was. My guess it its probably written by someone without the background or knowledge to do as and probably has an agenda similar to yours. Being I have not ever seen it much less read it my posts in now way are a reflection of what you allege and my statements reflect only my own beliefs. I can assure you you know knowing of my sexual activities and I I am amused that you would make such a ridiculously stupid statement which says more about your character than than it does about my sex life. I love God. and have no doubt He is completely OK with me and my sex life. I have a very fulfilling and rewarding life and that is the reason why, I also find your name “libertyman” a joke , your post here and the other posts of yours I have read brings me to the conclusion that you care nothing of the liberty of those you dislike or disagree with and selfishly care only of your own and would exercise that power if you had it. I thank God you do not.
He made it very clear that he was okay with the sex life of gays.That’s against God and Jesus.
I follow Jesus and I know he said,”I and my Father are one and the same.”That means he hates homosexuality.Jesus would not go against God’s word.
Because this is a site about gay marriage which denigrates God’s word about Holy Matrimony.I’m against the gay agenda.I don’t want them taking my rights 1st & 7th Amendment rights away.If they pass bill S909 and the “Thought Control”then I won’t be able to speak freely about God’s truth in the Bible.Now do you understand what the gays are up to.If anyone is violent,they are.I have seen a gay man smash a beer bottle over another man’s head just for looking at his partner.They smashed windows in a preacher’shouse and called his wife to tell her what evil ,deviated sex acts they would do to her children.If you support their agenda,that’s what you’re promoting.
Why would a christian disagree with God’s word?Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.I don’t argue with God Almighty!If I did,he might turn my mind inti that of an ox and I’d be eating grass like an ox.Nebuchanezzar argued with God and that’s what happened to him.Wake up people!God is calling you to repent and believe on the Lord JesusChrist.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and turn from their wicked ways.Then I will hear them and heal their land.
Do you read the Bible?Sodom and Gomorrah ring a bell?Want that to happen to America?
If he was listening to God:Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6 he wouldn’t argue with God about homosexuality which God hates!
St.John the Baptist,It’s very clear in 1Thessalonians4 where the homosexual is going because of thier evil choices.They refuse to turn from their sin:homosexuality.The example of eternal hellfire on Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality was clear.It’s in the New Testament what will happen to homosexuals for their sin.
Smilee,What is it you don’t get?There are already laws against assault.If they pass S909 and the “Thought Control Bill”my 1st&7th Amendment rights will be infringed upon.Why?Because I won’t be able to quote the Bible without gays claiming I committed hate speech because I quoted the Holy word of God:the Bible!
St.John the Baptist,Better change your name.You seem to think preaching God’s word isn’t okay!I guess you think God isn’t the final say so.He is very clear about homosexuality.Leviticua18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.He’s the same today,yesterday,and tomorrow.God hasn’t changed his stance on homosexual behaviour.He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because their homosexual sins cried out to God above.The same thing will happen in the USA!
We are told to love the sinner but hate the sin. There is a difference and it makes no one a bigot because they hate the sin. Those who know God and try valiantly to keep His Commandments do so out of the spirit behind them which is love. God did set laws to guide us to keep us from falling into the pit. There will be a judgment day for each of us, a personal one and a general one at the end of the world. Then God will divide the sheep from the goats. The sheep He will gather into His arms and the goats will follow Satan into hell. Yes, there is such a place, Jesus told us so. He called it the “nether darkness”. It will be awful because of the absence of God. God does not separate Himself from us, we separate ourselves from God. That’s why we are fearful for those of you who will not follow His will for you. We don’t hate you, we wish you all good, but fear for you if you do not repent. Each of us has to examine our conscience and ask God’s forgiveness for any wrongdoing.
Just a few historical quotes for the bible belchers-
The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense.”
– Thomas Paine
“I have seldom met an intelligent person whose views were not narrowed and distorted by religion.”
– James Buchanan: from Rufus K. Noyes, Views of Religion, also James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief
“The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.”
– Benjamin Franklin: Poor Richard’s Almanack, 1758
Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia
“In no instance have … the churches been guardians of the liberties of people.”
– James Madison
If you believe James Madison’s words will stand,think again.God’s word is the only word that will stand.
I was always tought to Know, Love, and Serve God. Fearing God is more a Jim Jones, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson pile of crap.
If Jones and Falwell are in “heaven” I’m not going.
Lots of men were burned at the stake in England for translating the holy Bible.
Norm you are a very cynical man. even though some of what you say is interesting philosophy. and has some grey truth. There is still a God.
Are you making the argument-there is no God or are you saying people are basicly evil. If it is the latter. I can agree with that. That happened in The Fall of Man–in the garden. The wisdom of man is foolishness to God. And yes mankind can mess up any good plan. I know I’ve worked around gov’t agencies most of my life…can’t wait till they take over health care. IT’S GOING TO BE GREAT. (sarcasm). So Norm, are you a Christian or not. yeah I know kinda personel huh. Know this, secular humanism is the road to destruction.
libertyman,
Christianity, and infact all religion, comes in many forms and versions. I’m an Engineer by education, and I never really liked fuzzy logic. I like to stick as close to the facts as possible.
Religion is faith not fact. I agree with Einstein (I’m no Einstein) and many of our founding fathers and other gifted individuals that religion is a personal thing – God and you. The more twisted crap your handed by self rightous, self proclaimed men of God the fuzzier it gets. Twisting bible passages, which were translated many times in many languages, is not my cup of tea. If God wants me to know something he’ll let me know personally. It’s worked well for me.
Norm there is wisdom in what you said. and the “twisting” comment is well taken. I see this religious guy on TV that knocks people in the head and cures them…and HE’S wealthy….. so that would offer some proof for your position.
But you did acknowledge God..good for you…good luck on your human journey with God on this mud ball.
Peace +
LM
Just claiming equal time here: My rebutal
So start with:
Just a few historical quotes for the bible belchers-
The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense.”
– Thomas Paine
Elohim Says: “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL (“aionial” age-lasting) fire.” (Jude 1:7)
“I have seldom met an intelligent person whose views were not narrowed and distorted by religion.”
– James Buchanan: from Rufus K. Noyes, Views of Religion, also James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief
Jehovah says: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. ” (Leviticus 18:22-23)
“The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.”
– Benjamin Franklin: Poor Richard’s Almanack, 1758
Adonai says: “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;” (Romans 1:26-28)
Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia
El Emunah says: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (NIV).
“In no instance have … the churches been guardians of the liberties of people.”
– James Madison
Ha-Melech Jehovah says: Romans 1:26-27 – “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.” (NIV)
And you know what mankind says about it. You’ve heard our views here. And the views of our God Way Trump the views of a couple atheists.
Anybody remember shaking the dust off your feet because someone won’t listen to repent?
Smilee,There is an association called Nambla,it advocates men having the right to have sex with each other,even baby boys.So when you support the gay agenda,that’s what you are supporting.
Have not heard of them, but I’m sure they are not Representative of the gay population as a whole anymore than the priests doing the same thing are representative of the majority of the priests. You conclusion you make in your last sentence is totally inaccurate you are again trying spin my position and put words in my mouth. To equate this illegal act as being the same as an legal act is ridiculous to say the least. How low will sink??
I’m trying to make you understand that supporting the gay agenda promotes evil.God hates evil.
Unfortunately that is the majority of gay men.They won’t stop until they have all christians in jail.Then where will America be?Like Sodom and Gomorrah their sin will cry out to God.Then God will take action against them.It won’t be a pretty sight.Read Isaiah66.
Denise You should take some of the advice YOU right wingers have shelled out for many years.
You and your ilk have screamed go back to the closet. Well it’s your time to head there now.
The Bible says when you pray enter into your closet, so at least you’ll have something to do while your there.
If you and your religous foundations are teaching folks (young ones especially) to torment and kill gays and treat them like the Christian KKK taught their members to do blacks, then you all need to go to jail.
If you selfrichous bigots have the need to beat up on someone there are plenty of hetroes in your mitst that really do need their clock cleaned. Start with them. Leave the gays alone.
There is wide agreement among historians and anthropologists that slavery predates any existing historical documents. Slavery is reported by many of the earliest available reports from China and Japan, Egypt and the Middle East, Africa, Europe and the Americas. It seems that since prehistoric and primitive times, dominant people have used force and fear to make other people serve them.It was actally a lot of good secular people and the Christians That knew it was the Christian thing to do. That was one of the main reason the Civil War was fought. So please, don’t blame that on us. Stick to true facts if you want to be taken serious.
Smilee,Are you arguing with God?His word is quite clear,Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.If you think you can argue with God,you’ll lose.No my sin isn’t above theirs.I know that I have to repent and change.You think they can go on sinning as a homosexual and God’s okay with that?
Not arguing with God, do not know why you think so
Okay!Don’t promote the gay rights and gay marriage.It will only bring disaster on our nation.
There is scarcely any part of science, or anything in nature, which those imposters and blasphemers of science, called priests, as well Christians as Jews, have not, at some time or other, perverted, or sought to pervert to the purpose of superstition and falsehood.”
– Thomas Paine
God has already stated what will happen to Jew and Gentile who commit wickedness.
Norm,My views aren’t twisted.I quote the word of God.If you disagree you will account to God when you die.
There you go again!! threats threats threats, if he does not agree will you, you will have God judge him for it, I doubt he will consult you first or ever. I see much you say as twists on not only our words by you seem to use the bible’s and twist that and then claim not to. Don’t take that to mean everything you say from us or the bible is twisted just when you use it to promote your personal agenda.
I’m not promoting my personal agenda.
Threats, Threats, Threats, Threats, and more Threats, noone bore false witness against you, WHAT FALSE WITNESS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT NOW!!
The word of God isn’t a threat.It’s just a fact.Live with it.
Denise
The word of God is a belif not a proven fact.
I don’t threaten.But when you bare false witness against me and other christians for telling God’s word,you will account to God.God tells me that my enemies are his enemies.He promises to deal with them.
I don’t threaten anybody.If you feel threatened it’s because you disagree with God’s word.Take it up with God,not me!
God has already said,”Isaiah66.”Read what it states.
Do you understand what it means to warn someone?That’s what God said to do.So that’s what I’m doing.Got a problem with that?Take it up with God!Not me!
If God’s word makes you feel threatened then Pray to God about it.
I f you feel threatened because I quote scripture that’s between you and God.Not me and you.
It makes no difference to me if he agrees or not.He answers to God not me.
The word of God is the judgement.
I don’t twist any thing in the Bible.I know better than that.I give the word of God out of the Holy Bible.If you have an issue with the word of God,go to God in prayer about it.Seek Jesus the son of God who takes away the sin of the world.He is the way,the truth,and the light.No man comes to the Father(God) but through me.
Denise
I’ll take my chances. I believe God is good and I don’t fear him.
Norm, can you tell me where god justifies the act sodomy. If we are misreading or misunderstanding our God and Bible, I for one would like to know as I don’t want to be condemned for teaching falsely
Smilee,I’m not treating them as second class citizens.I don’t want their gay agenda shoved down my throat or corrupting the morals of minors in school by saying it’s okay to promote their sick sexual perversion.I wouldn’t advocate promoting prostitution,or drug dealers.I’m not questioned if I speak out against that evil,or perhaps you love promoting what God hates.
I’m not promoting anything, Thats
just you spinning my position again to advance your agenda. I’m just accepting them as God’s children and let them and God work it out. How are they shoving their agenda down your throat, it appears more to me that’s what you are doing to them with your agenda, None of the rest that you rant and rave about has any more truth about gays that about the hetro community, you see you lump gays in with prostitution,or drug dealers and sexual perversion and there is no more of that in the gay community than in the community at large, but you sure want people to believe that BS don’t you.
God’s agenda is my agenda.God’s word will remain while all this gay agenda passes away!
Annal sex is perverse.If you call that okay then you are perverted too.
I don’t rant and rave.I speak God’s holy word.You will do just like the Bible tells,you would have me put to death just so you can promote wickedness.
I want them to come to JesusChrist and turn from their sin.
I’m not advancing my agenda.This is God’s word,Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.Read it and then you’ll understand what God is telling you.
When you promote the gay agenda you are promoting evil.
How many times do I have tell you I’m not promoting anyone’s agenda here, why is it you cannot get that through your head, telling those lies about me may advance your agenda but I think it is sad you have to sink so low to do that. Again I just will not discriminate against you or OUR equals the gays.
Sweet Denise, As Paul would tell you Denise: Shake the dust off your feet and walk away. You are wise enough to know that to close your eyes to evil is to condone and promote it. If you take a step back and read your post you will see that you have done all you can do here. You have done all you can and still they insist on they call you names etc. I find it sad that they say nothing to the straight secular community. I think it’s because they wouldn’t be as kind to them as most of the post here.
But the rewards are worth all the slander (sometimes beyond evil) and threats that are hurled so hatefully at us and yet we will never stop being about our Fathers business. Hang in there little sheep.
I think they think that we are weak because of out faith. Foolish foolish people. This is the hardest thing we’ve ever done.
First I don’t spin anything.Second if you hate God’s Holy Bible take it up with God ,okay?
Smilee,I’m not promoting any evil.It’s you who claim God’s okay with homosexuals and their lifestyle.He’s not!If you want to bare false withness against me,I forgive you.I also know God will bring the gays to nothing and as the word of God states,I will dance on their ashes.
Denise, I know you feel strongly, and I’m so sorry you feel threatened and afraid. Is there any opportunity for us to help you lighten your load. Can we help you to see the love in god, not just the words that help you to hate and feel pain. There is nothing to be afraid of. You can relax and bring the love into your soul through the very air you breathe. A deep breath is all it takes to start. Nobody wants to see you in such pain as you express. Everybody here will gladly help you.
I don’t feel threatened.I know who the boss is:GOD!
Don’t say God likes evil.You’ll be a liar!Homosexuality is evil.Get it!
My child. We are all sinners before God. It is not for us to cast aside fellow creatures of his loving creation. I feel your pain and anguish. If there is anything I can do to help you feel his love, I would be most happy to help. In the times of Christ, He would wash the feet of sinners. I will gladly wash yours. Remember that judgement belongs to Him and we must live with love for our fellow man even if we disagree with him. Turn the other cheek, we will help you to feel the love to make that possible. Peace be upon you. And may your pain disappear as the cherry blossoms in the wind.
What sinners’ feet did Jesus wash? I must have missed that passage, I remember him washing the feet of his beloved apostles. Who did I miss? Help a girl out here. I would find that very helpful to my search of the scriptures. Thank you in advance.
I’m not in pain!I’m expressing my 1st & 7th Amendment rights.
Read Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.If you have an argument it’s with God.
Smilee,I’m not putting words in your mouth.But you falsely accuse me at evry turn.I will leave you with God.I will never agree with the gay agenda.
I GUESS YOU ARE TO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND I HAVE NO AGENDA AND AM NOT ASKING YOU TO AGREE TO ANY GAY AGENDA AND NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I TELL YOU THAT YOU CANNOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND I HAVE NO GAY AGENDA. I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU BUT I DOUBT YOU WILL EVER GIVE UP YOUR AGENDA TO MAKE GAY PEOPLE FEE AS BAD AS YOU CAN IN THE PROCESS, I REALLY HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING YOU LOVE THEM DESPITE YOUR CLAIMS DUE TO YOUR INFLAMED RHETORIC HERE. I’M OUT OF HERE AND GIVE UP ON YOU. AS PAUL SAID DUST OF YOUR SHOES AND MOVE ON IF YOUR ARE WASTING YOUR TIME. (A PARAPHRASE) THE BEST AND GOO LUCK
I’m not stupid.You seem to think I have some agenda when I don’t.God’s agenda is all I advocate.Do you have a problem with that?
Looks like Rodin has exhausted his diatribe. He reminds me of the “friends” of Job who could only mock and carry on! If he says I am not a deep thinker, then I must be. Ha ha.
Smilee you are not exactly a barrel of laughs.
Denise
What would you do if you had a gay son or daughter like Dick Cheney?
Would crucify him or her?
Denise
Why will you not answer Norm’s question??
NORM Reply:
June 25th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Denise
What would you do if you had a gay son or daughter like Dick Cheney?
Would crucify him or her?
Good if you have no agenda then don’t worry about me!
If gay people feel bad when they hear the word of God,guess it’s because their conscience is bothering them!
I guess you disagree with God:Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6 which Paul would have agreed with.So I’ll shake the dust off my feet concerning you.
If they feel bad it’s because their conscience is bothering them.
Just one question to the gays on here. Exactly what are you try to prove being on here? What are your motives. You see if your trying to help change our minds calling us all bigots and haters and onandobandon does nothing for your cause. All it does is showes us what the lib/gays truly feel and its hate toward any one who tells them their wrong. People see you go nutz and scream and talk crazy (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) and it modivates them to actually go and do something. I really never did much about it till I started going on this site. You all have motivated me to actually do something. Because of your crazy rants I have given 1,000 bucks of my tithes to a legal group that fights this in court. Ive signed a petition and I sent it to everyone I know. Not only am I going to a Tea Party, but when I come back from my trip in 2 weeks I am sending out letters to all the politicians in my place against it and copying the letter and handing them out to family and friends to sign. So whatever you think you wanted to do for your agendas it aint working for ya. I do encourage any one else who feels strongly to act on your words if you havent yet. And better yet kick satan where it hurts and pray for them.
13th Gen. American
If you can afford, or willing to part with 1000 bucks in tithes, your a sheep of the christian religious extremeists. You are no better the than the muslim extremests.
I
There’s a scripture in the New Testament about a man who payed tithes and prayed and thanked God that he wasn’t an adulterer or stealing.Then there was a man who was a sinner and he wouldn’t look up to heaven.He prayed,”God forgive me a sinner.”Jesus said,”The man who humbled himself was right with God ,not the man who tried to justify himself.
Then there was a man who kicked in 15 percent of his paycheck so some idiot pastor could buy a private jet, build a crystal palace, and laugh all the way to the bank. If you have so much money to waste why don’t YOU do God’s work and help the poor and support your country. Your bible quoting nonsense is totally devoid of logic and fact.
Muslims want to chop your head off.All christians do is pray for you and forgive you!Get the difference?
DENISE
Read the history of Christianity. Burning “witches” alive, torture, wars, and mass murder are definately better than beheading.
Ya your right. They blow themselves up to kill you and I give my tithes,15% to God. like a tho each to feed the poor and spread the gospil and awater well in africa and to the Jews for emergency aid in this war. I still have more to go. You see. God be very very good to me. So I give him his part back. then he blesses me for it. Then I get more and am able to bless more people and help fight the demons in this world through the courts and prayers. Then he blesses me for following his word. I always have all I need and more. I want for nothing. Oh ya on top of that Ill give a stranger money and feed them and where ever Im lead. Ive even bought a gay guy a pair of purple heals because he always wanted a pair before he died of aids. So I got them and he was the happiest you wouldnt believe. I also told hin Jesus loved him in spite of his love of all things gay and all the hundreds of men he slept with. He knew it in the end.So as I see it , its better to serve the lord, flaws and all then to mock him. So any way I forgot. Roden. Jesus loves you. 13th
13th gen. American
God has been very good to me as well. I don’t think He’s too upset that I don’t support Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and all the other Evangelical multi-millionaires. You treat God as an evil to be feared. In the end you will face God and it will be only you and Him. All your paid for religious con men, who think they are God’s chosen, will only be a liability.
Only muslims blow themselves up.I don’t give to them.I give to those who preach and do the gospel of Jesus Christ by helping the poor,the homeless,jobless,etc.God help you to do the same.
God doesn’t require more than 10% of what you are given by him to begin with.
so norm what the hell happened to YOU…some priest bend you over or ….someth’in
libertyman
I don’t need to pay my way to heaven. People who get rich from their “special” relationship to God are generally sinners of the worse kind.
Amen to that!
God states that he provides the seed to sow.Wealth comes from God.Read Deuteronomy.
Norm,I would tell them the truth in God’s word,Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.I will not lie to them about the punishment God will render on them if they are homosexuals.I would love them enough to tell them the truth.
To all of you on this page,I’m not afraid!I’m fine.I know who has the final word and it isn’t the gays,it’s GOD!
Norm,the earth your standing on ,the sky you see,the sun,the moon,and the stars-all fact that God spoke into existance!God is in every living thing!Get it!You can’t see him but if he reveals himself to you,then you’ll see him.Like Moses.
You call sexual perverts our equals.No,they aren’t equal because they wouldn’t even exist without Mother and Father.Gee,if their parent was gay ,I suppose they wouldn’t have been born.God intended procreation to be a blessing between a man and a woman.Not two men and two women.Even animals know how to mate and keep their kind going.
Read about King Nebuchanezzar who denied God as supreme ruler.God caused him to have a mind like an ox and eat grass in a field for 7 years.
You all seem to think that the USA is some golden isle that God won’t burn up and destroy like Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of the sin of homosexuality that cried out to heaven.Yes,it’s crying out to God from America just like Sodom and Gomorrah.
Denise… your anger, pain and hatred are blaring forth with your writing and words like hail from a storm cloud and like snow in a blizzard. It hurts that you as one of my fellow creatures on this god given planet should feel that much discomfort. Would that I could erase all your suffering. The road is long and love makes it worthy.
I have no hatred,pain or any animosity toword anyone on earth or in heaven.I only wish them to know Jesus as Lord and Saviour,so they can be with God and Jesus when they die.
Denise, we’re all sinners here. Your righteousness masks your pain. I feel your heartache. Perhaps you’ve lost a love and have become hardened. Finging love again is easy but the heart needs to be open. I pray for your happiness.
I don’t have any anger.But God does and when Revelation occurs all the ungodly will know it.
If you find the word of God offensive then take it up with GOD!
I have no hate,If scripture is hate then you have a problem.I hate evil.If that’s wrong in your eyes then you disagree with God who also hates evil.
If you can’t handle the word of God,what will you do at the judgement seat of Jesus when the Bible is opened and used to judge you and everyone?
amen,PREACH it girl!
Dearest John. All here can vividly see that sweet Denise is defiantly in no pain of her own making. All her pain comes from her concern for you and for that she will be greatly glorified in Heaven and you can share in that with her if you want. Her only pain is seeing you so convicted it is making you (how can I say this without hurting your feelings) not so wise and aware of reality. It you just give your tortured soul to Christ he can relieve you of all your pain and guilt. I can see you have a lot of unseen demons on your back and Christ can take of them too. She knows she is a redeemed sinner and her soul is at piece in the hands of her Father. But you sweet John should really stop tip toeing through the tulips and get your head out poesy garden and put the whacky backy down (or maybe you’ve just been medicated incorrectly or maybe you are just a nut, not judging just discerning which is expected of us.)And realize there is a cosmic war going between good and evil and our souls are the spoils of war. WAKE UP BABY!!!!!!
Reading what I’ve read here … Now I know why this country is so screwed up, and why it is in the final stages of it’s life. The fall of the “American Empire” is just around the corner. All you people are self absorbed morons.
We are blessed with many rights by our creater.No other country has the rights we give.That is a blessing from Almighty God.God Bless!Have a nice day!
self absorbed moron
I’m sorry you feel the 1st Amendment isn’t okay for all.
Do you know what God says about people who call others idiots or moron.You are in danger of hell fire because you are judging who is made in the image of God.
Now Denise, Im with you on Jesus Christ being my Lord and Savior, but I do not for one minute believe hell fire will come down on me if I call, say Joe Biden a moron, because he is. Its not my judgement, not my opinion, its a fact that he has brought upon himself by his words and actions on this earth. The guy is a complete moron, and thats a fact. I fear God myself, but I fear no retribution for saying this, because these guys make me angry with what they say and do, and such as when Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple for prostituting His Fathers house, there is such thing as a righteous anger, and my anger burns against these God-less men in public office. They speak and act as morons, therefore they are.
Amen, Brother, an ole back-woods, backward saying, if it looks like a little duck,
likes water, quacks like a little duck, and got web feet, It wouldn’t be a judging state-ment to say IT’S A DUCK. Just like Joe Biden, he’s a step ahead of a moron, he’s
a fine outstanding, qualified dumb-ass. That’s not judging, it’s a Fact. You will know
them by the fruits, they bare.
Thanx bill.
Marrage was constitued by God to be between a Man and Women and should not be trampled on in any way shape or form. I have nothing against Civils Unions but do not destroy a God given sacrement.
God made Adam and Eve,Not Adam and Steve.
To all those who seek the son of God,JesusChrist as their personal Lord and Saviour,God Bless.To the rest,I pray for your soul to be spared from the wrath of God Almighty.No one God created is a moron!God forgive you for your mean spirit.
Norm,I will worship my God and Saviour,JesusChrist and you will do what you do.
That my dear child is all you can do. Peace be upon you.
Maybe you can explain the trinity to me sometime. One God in 3 devine forms, the father, the son, and the holy spirit.
NoRM, you don’t want an answer… you just want to be a jerk… D has put on the armor of God…. you put on your mom’s dress. (are you wearing her bra too.)
libertyman
If seeking truth is being a jerk, then I’m a jerk.
You hide behind your twisted bible nonsense and pretend your enlightened.
Norm my man, youve still got Satan’s binders over your eyes and ears. I know, I recognize them. I wore them for my first 40 years, so from past experience, I know of which I speak. Doesnt make you bad Norm, you are the same as me, flesh and blood. But there is a Jesus Christ that took the nails for you, that took your sin to the cross with Him. His blood shed to wash it from you. Wont you let Him? Man Im telling you, when that burden is lifted, its a whole new life. Wont you try it out? If Im wrong, youve lost nothing. If Im right, well, thats a different story. All youve gotta do is ask Him that if He is real to reveal Himself to you, and you my friend will see. Try it out Norm. Whats there to lose?
Mark
I congratulate you on your faith.
I too have a basic belief in God.
The bible is an interesting set of books with many translations and many interpretations. There are also many “men of God” who have used deceit, manipulation, and lies to attain wealth and power.
People often abandon their God given intellect and common sense to become sheep to their “pastors”. They fear God and fear science.
The earth is not the center of the universe, human’s are decended from chimpanzees, and medicine can cure many ailments.
Belief in science and living in the sun light only enhances one’s respect for the greatness of God.
Playing with rattlesnakes,drinking poison, and rolling on the ground babbling like an idiot can only offend and disappoint God.
Say Norm, those things you say about rattlesnakes, drinking poison and rolling on the ground babbling. I would run from those thinks myself pal, and I mean run hard. Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God I would say to someone who even attempted to tell me to hold a rattlesnake. Insanity. Drinking Poison? Is that Jim Jones? The cat wasnt a Christian, he was a self appointed Messiah, carrying satans message. There are many false prophets it is written, and many of them are among you now. Dude, Satan has all kinds of hypocrites and Jim Jones’s and David Koresh’s and cats like that all over the earth, for the purpose of appealing to people like you to keep you out of the church, to keep you from finding the real truth, and that is that Jesus Christ loves you and died on the cross for you. Let me tell you something my friend, there are some who would see me drinking a beer and chastize me and tell me “Christians dont do that” . Really, I guess I never read that part of the bible. I did read where it said dont become drunk. I do understand that in all things, too much of anything is bad. And also, there are hypocrites everywhere, another of Satan’s ploys. But Norm, if one knows his Bible, and knows the word of God, these guys stick out like a sore thumb, and you run away from them. Problem is, so many people do not read their Bible, and they are down and out, and here comes these Rev. Jim Jones guys and gives them food and love, but they blindly follow his words, and not Gods words, and brother there is a big, big difference between the two. And Im kind of surprised you didnt bring up the time period when the so called Christians used to round up and kill people that werent Christians. Those guys definately werent following the word of God. The gospel is to be adminsteered in love, not in fear or force. It doesnt work that way. If it did, God would have came and forced Himself on us, but He doesnt, and never will. He is free. My life is better for knowing Him, and so Is everyone else’s that I know. I walked on the other side of the fence for 40 years Norm, and Im not going back. Im no holy roller, or smack you in the head with a Bible guy. No, Im a follower of Jesus Christ, and he loves me warts and all, and brother, whether you ever accept Him or not, He’s gonna love you also. Were both flesh and blood, were both sinnners, and always will be until we die. Dude, I fall way short of God’s grace, but it is His gift to me. I dont deserve it, but He gives it to me. Im not any better than you or anyother guy or gal walking around. Im just another human being trying to survive in this world today. I do have one advantage, and that is I have seen the light to light my daily path. Sometimes Im a dummy, and I stray from it, not meaning to, but hey, Im human ok. Dont judge me to supposedly be perfect because Im a Christian. It doesnt work that way. Anybody who tells you they are a Christian and they are sinless, well my friend, they are lying to you. As long as were wearing flesh and blood, the sin is there. Always will be. I just happen to now know the one who can wipe it off me and lift the burden of carrying it around with me. It used to weigh me down so much, so much. And also, there are some who will act as if their relationship with Christ is a license to sin, because after all He will forgive it. Wrong. This is the wrong attitude and approach to have. To him who knows it is a sin and does it anyways, it is counted as double sin to him, as it is written. Its not all fluff being a Christian Norm. Satan kicks up his attacks on one twice as much after accepting Christ. He wants me back bad. He constantly tries to trip me up, and constantly throws temptation my way. The good news is, Jesus only allows him to tempt me for what I can handle, as it is written. Good luck to you in life pal, I hope the good news finds you. Have a great day.
Read God’s word.Then if you understand that most of those people who burned people as witches were wrong.They were going by the Old Testament chapters that God intended for the Israelites.It doesn’t apply today.All it states is that,”What does darkness have to do with light.Be not unequally yoked.Have nothing to do with those who practice divinationor witchcraft.”God is very specific.The Spanish Inquisition and all tragedies were not of God’s will.God tells us to pray for those who persecute us,bless those who do us wrong.We are to be gentile and meek with all.God bless and may you know Jesus.
Denise
Exactly my point. When good or bad intentioned people decide to interpret God’s will, evil inadvertantly occurs. Believe whatever you like but leave others out of your version of reality. Worry about your salvation, not someone elses; it is not your concern.
According to Jesus I’m called to tell others about him and the word of God.If you can’t handle that get over it.It’s my 1st&7th Amendment right.Get it?
It was the right of good christians to burn witches as well, and for good protestants and good catholics to kill eachother. Get it?
There are a lot of homosexuals in prison and on death row for raping and killing little boy and girls. One was a long time ago in a sad point in history one is going on today. So what does that have to do about this subject, I didn’t want to play this card but my rightouse anger finially got tired of the put downs,
Norm is wrong, you know it and I know it. His salvation is our concern. But all we can do is witness the love Jesus has for him. We cant change the way he thinks or feels, that has to come from him and God. Administer the Gospel in love, without the threat of hell fire and all that. And return a harsh word with a kind word.
The Bible isn’t open to personal interpretation.I give you the scripture.If you disagree,you are disagreeing with God and Jesus.Not me!
Denise
The “scripture” has a multitude of interpretations. Some are honest disagreements and many are frauds meant to increase power and importance of sometimes dangerous people.
I repeat:
There is scarcely any part of science, or anything in nature, which those imposters and blasphemers of science, called priests, as well Christians as Jews, have not, at some time or other, perverted, or sought to pervert to the purpose of superstition and falsehood.”
– Thomas Paine
I know not every preacher is from God ,Norm.I don’t advocate gunning down Indians.They are also God’s people.
All those who do evil will account to Jesus and God at the judgement seat of Jesus.I only hope they repent and turn away from their sin and come to JesusChrist!
Norm,God is very specific about what he wants.Even Jesus went off on the pharisees and saducees(priests) of his day and called them brooder vipers.Why?Because they judged themselves better than others and wouldn’t let others come to God and be forgiven.I don’t blindly lump all preachers together if they have upheld Jesus and God’s words and deeds.Not everyone who calls me Lord is mine.Even Jesus said,”Haven’t we cast out devils in your name,healed the sick in your name,and raised the dead.”Jesus said,”Get away from me I never knew you.”Jesus said,”Not everyone who calls me Lord is of my sheep.”
I am commanded by Jesus Christ to preach the gospel to others.
Yeah NORM non christians NEVER did that StuFF. THE wisdom of man is foolishness to God…..Thanx for sharing…… NORM (fool)
libertygirl
Science also has more truth.
Don’t take it personally, but your obviously an idiot.
Hey NorMY, science has more politics than RELIGION….
Science is full of the biggest liars out there. All these scientist clamoring about global warming, that the left puts on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and MSNBC, and yet there are hundreds of others they dont put on who say its getting colder and the ice caps are growing. They are all political with their own agendas to make money one way or the other. These so called scientist have these guys on the History channel, they present as biblical scholars, and 2 minutes into hearing them talk, its clear they are atheists. Science has spent billions and billions of dollars not only trying to prove evolution, with no results, but also to hide creation, and all the facts and artifacts are there verifying both the people and places of the Bible. There are fenced off and guarded areas in Iran and Egypt and other muslim countries, where there are such things as Noahs Ark remnants that these guys will not let anyone see, lest it blow the lid off their muslim religion and the whole world know the bible is all true, as is Jesus Christ. But science seems to not deem this worthy to make some investment in trying to prove, as it would be very successful, but instead they speculate about black holes, and martians, and evolution, all pure speculation. If there was proof to be found of this, with all the scientific things we have now, it would have been done a long long time ago. You cant prove what isnt true, thus these so called brilliant scientists are forever spinning their wheels, trying to deny the undeniable, that we were created by God. I have lost so much respect for science and scientist in the last 20 years, as they have for the most part become another wing of the democrat party. Lying cheating (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).
Norm,Was Noah’s Ark faith?Yes and No.I know it takes faith to please God.I know that the word of God is a twoedged sword that splits assunder the thoughts.I live by faith every day.God is the final say so.
Denise
Do literally believe in Noah’s ark? He would have needed the following, in most cases times 2:
Animals: estimated 3-30 million species
|
|–Invertebrates: 97% of all known species
|
--+--Sponges: 10,000 species–Arthropods| |--Cnidarians: 8,000-9,000 species
| |--Molluscs: 100,000 species
| |--Platyhelminths: 13,000 species
| |--Nematodes: 20,000+ species
| |--Annelida: 12,000 species
|
|
--+--Crustaceans: 40,000 species–Arachnids: 75,500 species| |--Insects: 1-30 million+ species
|
|
--Vertebrates: 3% of all known species
–+–Reptiles: 7,984 species|–Amphibians: 5,400 species
|–Birds: 9,000-10,000 species
|–Mammals: 4,475-5,000 species
`–Ray-Finned Fishes: 23,500 species
Some ark.
How do you know the exact amount of animals at that time?I just know the Ark sits on top of Mount Arrarat in Turkey.Proof enough that Noah did what God told him to do.
You’re going by present day amounts.That wasn’t the case in Noah’s day.
Denise,
Ulike governor huckabee and most Bible bouncers, you must believe in Darwinism and evolution.
Really. You must believe in the theory of evolution cause that’s the only way the numbers change.
you are forgetting the POWER of god! you don’t think he could have created the space inside the ark? enlarged the dimensions internally? god is unlimitless! you cannot even begin to conceive the power of god with the natural human mind! god cannot be comprehended,only accepted as fact.once you realize that and throw your natural intellect out the window,you’ll understand,the holy spirit will then reveal what he wants you to know.
With men, some things are possible. With God, ANYTHING is possible.
Mark
I still prefer evolution.
My old biology teacher said “a thousand years is but a watch in the night” so maybe seven days were seven God days.
You are entitled to your opinion, and in America, I gladly give you that. But myself, I refuse to believe that a bird crapped on a rock and the sun fermented it and I was born. Or that some fish decided to come up out of the water and grow legs and walk erect, but other ones just decided that being a fish was good enough. Doesnt make sense, and science doesnt support it either, except when they did those scopes monkey trials in Dayton where they said they had the missing link, and had skeletons all the way up the chain, until they found a bunch of them were fashioned out of cow bones. So if science has to cheat to try to get people to buy into what they are selling, I aint buying. Besides that, when I accepted Jesus Christ as my saviour, and I understand fully that you cannot comprehend this, because I used to be where you are at, believe you me, but when this happens, your eyes and ears get opened, and things are revealed to your heart that beforehand one didnt see or hear. Its all true my man, Im here to say.
Please norm, tell me that you don’t actually think there were that many varieties of bird etc back in the day of Noah. I’ll be very disappointed in your intelligence if you answer yes.
To the God,Jesus,and Holy Spirit.The Father is God,the son is Jesus,and the Holy Spirit is God’s 7 spirits.Men of God being filled with God’s Holy Spirit wrote the Holy Bible:Old and New Testaments.God says,”You cannot please God unless you believe that he exists by faith.”Jesus said,”These things I do you will do and greater things than me.”i.e.,Lazarus raised from the dead four days after he died.The ten leppers healed.The 5000 men + women & children fed.The 4.000 men ,women & children fed.His own ressurection witnessed by 500 witnesses.All his disciples seeing him go into heaven.These aren’t fairytales.These are actual events that occured.Jesus will come back in the clouds with the holy angels.Every eye will behold him as lightning flashes across the sky.The beginning of the birthpangs has begone.Wars and rumors of wars,Nation rising against nation.Earthquakes in various places,floods in various places.This is just the beginning of sorrows.We know we’ll be persecuted because we believe in Jesus and God.We pray for those who do that to us.May God draw them before it’s too late.
But there is only 1 God. Jesus, the son of God, is God. The holy ghost is God. God the father is God.
Very confusing.
Get a Bible and go to a Methodist church.Ask the pastor to help you understand the word of God.Ask God to help you understand his word.God states ,ask me for knowledge and I will give it to you.God is no respecter of persons,what he does for one he will do for another.
Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church (“I long to be wading in gore”) had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women and children, gunned down despite the chiefs’ waving with a white flag: 400-500 killed.
There are three spirits in one.They all serve a different purpose.Thet all agree but all do different things.Jesus was the word of God in the flesh.The Holy Spirit does God’s will.God is 7 spirits.Amazing how awesome God is.He states,”My hand isn’t short so I can’t save.”
That cuz your stupid NORM….you must be an engineer or management….hey NORM may be you can eXplaIn why a square peg doesn’t fit in a round hole (AND shOw yoUr math)….NORM… Don’t know why any body would cast pearls before swine……. NORM
Whats the matter L-man cant answer Norm directely? You sure do get a lot of miliage out of that god blanket.
johnney, johnney , johnney, Where have ya been…..missed ya …..dude. hey jonnneeyyy if you hate God… tell Him. oh! and good luck with that.
(jjjjjonie…. Mileage is spelled MILEAGE.)
I would explain but, I figure a couple of guys that think an anus is a reproductive device,,,,,PROBABLY wouldn’t get it…….
BUTT thanks for asking. JJJJOOOOHHHNNNIIIIIEEEE.
Also j-boy….. NORM has his secular humanism and new age thinking to comfort him in these troubling times.
libertyman
I guess asking questions is stupid. I didn’t see YOUR answer though.
How about virgin birth – maybe you can explain that one because my doctor can’t.
you ALREADY had your answer and answered it yourself!
It is confusing to those who have not read. I am sure Norm if you read the Bible you could learn to understand it. Please give it a try
To St.John the Baptist,All have fallen short of the glory of God.No not one is righteous.I have no righteousness.I have Jesus righteousness that’s by faith!Not of works lest any man boast.
Norm,I don’t believe in Darwinism.Darwin denounced his theories on his deathbed and accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour.I’m not related to monkeys,apes or any other animal.God gives a clear statement in Genesis about the difference between living things he’s created.Read it and be enlightened.
Noah sure did some work. 3-30 million species is a lot of critters. After all they were made in seven days according to you.
If you can’t see the biological similarities and DNA closeness between mammals (humans are mammals) you are indeed blind. Put down your Bible for a minute and read some Science.
PS We are really off the subject here.
This isn’t according to me.It’s according to God!You can’t argue with God!You’ll lose big time!
God flooded the earth because of wicked people.Now God will burn up the earth because of wicked people!
gor created the foolish things to CONFOUND the wise!
Please norm, tell me that you don’t actually think there were that many varieties of bird etc back in the day of Noah. I’ll be very disappointed in your intelligence if you answer yes.
This is a repeat in case you missed it the first time
Since the invention of the electron microscope the whole evolution thing has been debunked. Now we can see that everything has been designed.
Biological evolution has been experimentally proven many times over. The worth of a theory is measured by how well it is supported by the facts, not by who believes it.
Denise
Did Darwin Recant evolution?
Darwin’s daughter Henrietta has stated that he didn’t. And none of Darwin’s friends (who did visit him) reported any conversionto this end. Darwin’s various biographers are agreed on this.
Putting words in dead men’s mouths is a common practice for Christianity.
I recommend the book The Great Infidels by Robert Ingersoll when it comes to this topic.
ElCamino
?? The electron microscope debunks evolution?? nonsense!
I am sure he has all the answers now. Good-Night Mr. Darwin where ever yuu are!!!
Norm,I don’t burn anyone.If they selfcombust that’s between them and God.
Denise
Christians have always portrayed non-Christian civilizations as backwards, underdeveloped, superstitious, and barbaric. What really underlies all of their criticism is that these cultures do not accept Jesus, the Bible and their western way of life. This is what, in the Christians’ opinion, deems these cultures as needing their help, when in fact their fervor to destroy any theistic conception other than Christianity or any temple other than a church shows that they are really the ones who are showing the qualities of barbarians.
Norm,now you’re arguing with God who told the Israelites to avoid pagans because it’s a thorn in their eyes.I guess you advocate killing a boy and girl like the mayans or incans did to improve their harvests.I don’t follow what God hates.God says that those people are snares to your soul.God knows better than you or me.
God will give them the word of God through his chosen preachers or missionaries.God doesn’t force anyone.You must decide for yourself to serve God or man.I suggest you get a holy Bible and read it through.
I’d like to know where you get your facts Norm, to make such broad statements.
If you’re not a Christian, and it’s obvious that you are not, then you’re not qualified to state what we think or feel about “other” cultures. I don’t feel that anyone needs my help if they are happy with their way of life. I tell them about being a Christian if they do not want to accept it, then so be it.
As you can tell from the tone of my statements, I’m not fervently trying to destroy your theistic conceptions, so I guess that blows that theory out of the water for ya. Sorry.
If your statements are to be believed, they ring of the ancient Spanish Inquisition which was barbaric, but those people were not Christians. Christians are the guys that got fed to the lions. Their king was persecuted and He was crucified. He died for my sins and for yours, too. If that is a mystery to you, I didn’t make it that way. God did.
We offer information, not condemnation. If you choose not to accept it, no one is going to persecute you. Instead, we wish you the best.
Well said Susan
God plainly warns that pagan beliefs are a thorn in your eye.Do you constantly argue with God?
Denise
Why would the personal beliefs of others be a threat to me?
Unless they are meant to harm me, as a very small number of extreme religions(including Christianity) do, I have no ill will towards them.
If God sees it as a thorn in my eye, then let Him save me. Doing evil deeds and harming your fellow man can’t possibly be God’s will.
Do you understand that after the big flood that destroyed everyone except Noah,his wifw,three sons and their wives,plus the animals,they were the only ones on the earth to populate the earth again.All mankind came from Noahand his sons.Then they built a tower and Nimrod wanted to defy God.So God looked down on the earth and saw that men were getting together to defy him.He confounded their language and made them all become different.Yes God is able to do that.
Read Isaiah66.
Smilee,I’m not Libertyman.Quit sending me emails.Get an education and learn how sentences don’t go on and on.
Gez D, why are you slammming me. YOU are casting pearls before swine ….not ME. But I must say you are well read in scripture…but these swine will never agree with you. Pray that God turns their hearts from stone. I will..
To P ,I’m far from a moron.I guess that makes you feel superior to others.Get a reality check,no one is a moron because God created them in his image.You will give an account to God for your mean spirited words to me or others.Get to know Jesus and you will only give them the words of God.I forgive you because my God commands me to forgive!
To all on this page,may you find Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.Peace be on you in Jesus name!
Smilee,Take a stand for God and Jesus.I would preach the gospel and keep telling the homosexuals about Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.Yes,I would like Paul,obey God rather than man.
In the matter of the GOP, I rest my case. If this topic is their #1 concern, the GOP deserves whatever happens. Does the GOP fear common sense? First, our economy is teetering on the brink. Second, those responsible for this mess are not being investigated (that includes certain career swine in Congress). Third, our pork- swilling government is getting bigger each day. Fourth, the Constitution is being strangled. Fifth, the Fed, in its self-made schizophrenia, is getting even stronger.
If these matters aren’t that important to the GOP, then it’s time for the GOP to fade away. At this rate, the GOP will bring PETA into its tent. Then, they’ll welcome the ACLU. In an attempt to be ‘popular,’ these no-talent losers have voluntarily lost their minds.
s c I hope you are wrong…but I fear you are probly right. God help us.
To the person who asked if I answered Norm on my son or daughter being gay.Read the bit under Denise June 25,2009 11:00 a.m.I already answered the question.Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.If you have a problem with that then take it up with Jesus and God Almighty.That’s who gave the words to the disciples.
Arguing about gay marriage is like arguing that a dog’s tail is a leg.
Just because one wants the tail to be a leg does not make it so, irrespective of the passion of the argument.
Rather than argue the dimension of an established millenia old custom and institution, it would be better to ask the instigators why the need to impose what
is admittedly abnormal on what has worked (as mush as can be expected) for thousands of years already.
I believe the bible says Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve or Eve and Mary.
To the one who is qouting the New Testament look up the scripture about “Judge not unless you be judged.”It plainly states that in what judgement you judge if you are doing the same,you are guilty.It doesn’t say we aren’t to call evil bad .I know what the New Testament states.Read it again very closely.
I don’t beat up gays.They beat up little old lady’s who protest peacefully.They attack preachers windows with hammers and call on the phone and tell what deviated sex acts they will perform on their children.Gay rights?I guess that’s what you assist when you say we as christians have no voice!God will definitely bring this nation to it’s knees with all the gays wondering why there’s no work to pay tax dollars to pervert our nation’s youth to believe it’s okay to live such an evil lifestyle.I won’t hit them or harm them.They are doing that to themselves every time they have annal sex!AIDS/HIV!Guess you think it’s okay to spread that to every one in our nation.
When God burns up the whole earth,then maybe you’ll get it HUH?
Out of curiosity today I read through some of the many comments made on here. I am amazed at how much time some of you spend to put forth your ideas on this site. I’m thinking at least one person has way too much time on his or her hands and needs to get a real job or other interests.
Also, I noticed that quite a number of you just do not know how to write and a few of you don’t have any idea of how to get your point across without resorting to name-calling and vile language. It is not productive.
I agree , but it is fun! As far as writing goes, when you are in a hurry you sometimes miss allot of the mistakes. When you preview a post before submitting you usually find the errors.
This is America and we have our right to our freedom of speech and religious belief.If you are from some communist regime,perhaps you have a problem with freedom of thought.God granted us our freedoms.
Out of curiosity I read your blog and then I was amazed that you took allllll the time to read alllllllllll these entries and then took alllllllll that time to post one. Just thought this is what some people might think was sort of silly for someone such you
Had to laugh
We have so many more important issues to worry. Marriage is a civil issue period. If two people want to protect assest, share medical issues, want tax advantages so be it. Anyone who believes in Adam & Eve believes in fairy tales! Supposedly God created this earth for a man! Than, when he felt man was lonely he gave him a woman! Wonder how he came up with these designs. Religion is the biggest myth ever perpatrated on mankind: its sole purpose is to control, gain wealth, and manipulate people. Just how great would this world be if we all just believed in the Golden Rule “treat others as you would have them treat you” which evolved as humans evolved as a good, common sense way to live and we got rid of all organized religion!!
You are truely decieved by Satan.The Bible is God’s very word given to men and women who fear their creater who you deny created you or anything else.When you pass away you will come face to face with God and Jesus.If you die without Jesus,you die in your sins and go to hell(lake of fire).Grasp that concept.It’s real and yes God created it for evil angels,the devil and all liars and unbelievers.Come to Jesus before it’s too late.
Hey Denise, why debate the believer vs the unbeliever? If, there’s
nobody home, knock this dust off your feet, and proclaim your wisdom
of the Lord Jesus to the lost, who may believe, not to those who
decented from the loins of Cain or Judas Iscariot. They come from
below, you come from above.
As for evolution, I mean come-on, seems like if that had any truth at
all, we would still today after 100′s & 100′s of years, see something
evolve into something. Maybe WORLD NEWS, there’s a MONKEY that was
born with a HUMAN HAND. This is something else so damn stupid, it ain’t
worth the time it takes to debate it.
Jim, Were do you think the “GOLDEN RULE” came from? No matter what you believe in, the ten commandments are gods own words.
“[ts sole purpose is to control, gain wealth, and manipulate people.] ” Isn’t this supposed to be the governments job? We don’t deal the cards, we just play the hand.
The founding fathers worked quite hard to make sure that the religous persecution many suffered in Europe would not happen here. I would like to make a few points for consideration:
1) God has never prevented someone from committing a sin. He tells us that there are consequences for sinning, but He gave us free will, including the freedom to sin and he has never, NEVER taken that free will away to stop a sin. For any of us to attempt to is to assume an authority greater than God’s. That is blasphemy. Each of us should worry about our own sins. If you spend all your time worrying about everyone else’s sins, you’ll neglect to deal with your own until it’s too late.
2) God is the judge of our sins. It is HIS authority only. For anyone to assume that they know someone is going to hell is to claim God’s authority for your self. This is also blasphemy. If you got to Heaven and saw someone there you didn’t like (a gay guy), would you get angry with God? Would you curse him for daring to disagree with you? To assume that you know the mind of God is also blasphemy.
3) God already has a Kingdom and it is infinitely greater than any we could create down here. Therefor, I fail to see how God would be interested in our politics or government. The separation of church and state is necessary.
4) To assume that a gay person is automaticall immoral is incredibly narrow minded. The vast majority of serial killers are hetero. The vast majority of sexual assaults are hetero (it’s the gay ones that get most of the press). Some of the responses here make it sound like rape is OK if it’s man on woman?
Perhaps marriage should be left to the church, and the government should only recognize civil unions. I mean, the government should not legislate any religious rite, and if you take religion out of marriage your left with, basically, a civil union.
Just a few thoughts.
Nice, civil, well-thought-out reply.
so you folks practicing sodimy (homosexaulity) don’t think the bible and god is against it,here goes some scripture for you that puts it in clear wordage!
LEVTICUS CHAPTER 20……
verse 7: sanctify yourselves therefore,and be ye holy:for a am the LORD your god.
verse 8:and ye shall keep my statutes,and them:i am the LORD which sanctify you.
verse 9:for everyone that curseth his father or his mother shall shall be surly be put to death:he has cursed his father or his mother;his blood shall be upon him.
verse 10:and the man that commiteth adultry with another mans wife ,the adulterer and the adultereress shall surly be put to death.
verse 11:and the man that lieth with his fathers wife hath uncovered his fathers nakedness:both of them shall be surly put to death;their blood shall be upon them.
verse 12:and if a man lie with his daughter in law,both of them shall surly be put to death:their blood shall be upon them.
*verse 13:if a man also lie
sorry hit the submit by mistake…..
verse 13:if a man also lie with mankind,as he lieth with a woman,both of them have committed an abomination:they shall surly be put to death;thier blood shall be upon them.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………
1 corinthians 6:9 know ye not that the unrightous shall not inherit the kingdom of god?be not deceived:neither fornicators,nor idolaters,nor adulterers,nor effiminate,nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
verse 10:nor theives,covetous,nor drunkards,nor revilers,nor extortioners,shall inherit the kingdom of god.
verse 18:flee fornication.every sin that a man doeth is without the body;but he that comitteth fornication sinneth against his own body.
romans 1:24 wherefore god also gave them up to uncleaness through the LUST of their OWN hearts,to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
verse 25:who changed the truth of god into a lie,and worshiped and served the creature more than the creator,who is blessed forever.amen.
that is only a few,there are many more,oh i’m sure you sodimites and the demons that dwell in you can come up with a myriad of reasons to refute GODS words,(they are not mine,but his),that does NOT change the fact that you are on a one way express trip to hell if you think god and jesus christ will overlook your perverseness.sodomy is a ABOMINATION to the lord! abomination means abhorrid,disgusting,vile,repugnant,foul.once you’ve read this,YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED AND ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE!
there is hope and only ONE way out from eternal damnation,that is jesus christ.he WILL set you free from the bondage that has you bound,both spiritually and mentally.all you have to do is cry out to him,NOW!
ask him to be your deliveror,he can SET YOU FREE! the demons in you can’t stop you,satan can’t stop you,NOTHING is more powerful than the BLOOD of jesus.please i implore you,DO THIS AND YOU’LL NEVER BE SORRY AND THE FREEDOM AND JOY YOU WILL FEEL IS INDISCRIBABLE.
fly or fry
turn or burn
ITS A NO BRAINER!
if you just read that then you have a decision to make,it was no accident that you read that,the lord has his ways and he pre-ordained that you should read HIS word (not mine),he is calling to you,imploring you to come to him,you don’t know when you are going to die,could be you have aids NOW,or die in the next minute.
know where your going to go,if you say heaven then your right,but only to be judged,and then you are going to hell,there to sit in darkness,suffering unbeleivably,burning but not being consumed,screaming for mercy,their will be NONE! your teeth will grind together from the abject pain as you realize after the first minute this your torment will be FOREVER,the minutes will seem like years,the years will seem like ages and that is only the beginning,eternity is forever.WITHOUT END!!!!
THIS IS’NT A JOKE!
is the carnel pleasure you feel worth seperation from god and happiness worth it to you? if so then go ahead.
keep thinking just because you may be a good person that a HOLY god will not judge you for your sin,i assure you he will,there is ONLY ONE THING that will blot out your sins from his memory,and that is to accept his son jesus christ as your LORD and saviour.and not with mere words,but with your WHOLE being,mind,body & soul.god looks at the inner most being and see’s the heart (i.e:soul,he will know whether your for real or not.you can’t pull a fast one on the omnipotant,omnipotant,supreme creator of the universe!
jesus can and WILL deliver you,completely,you will be free of your bondage.satan and the demons which have have you bound DO NOT won’t you to read this!
choice is up to you.
in christ jesus through the holy spirit i write this in love,may you heed it!
here is a prayer you can make right NOW………
oh lord i come to you knowing i am a sinner,that your son jesus christ shed his blood for me and you said in your word,that whosoever shall call upon the name the lord shall in no ways be turned away,i confess my sins right now and lay them at your feet and ask you in the almighty name of jesus christ to forgive me of my sins. jesus right now i ask you to be my saviour and i willingly and unreservidly surrender my life to you and ask you to come into my heart and be the LORD of my life.cover me with your blood.i accept what you did on the cross at cavalry for me.i repent of my sins and lay them before you jesus and ask you to wash me whiter than snow.i praise you and want you to be the absolute lord of my life.
confess your sins to him,this maybe hard to do,but ask the precious holy spirit to help you,he will! you will feel the precense of jesus christ and he will wrap his arms around you and deliver you and show you a love that far far surpasses that of any relationship you have ever known.it is my sincere hope you do this and you’ll never ever be sorry.
john 3:16 for god so loved YOU that he sent his only begotten son to die for YOU,so you may not perish (die),but have everlasting life.
for whosoever calls upon the name of the lord SHALL BE SAVED!
and he shall cast your sins into the sea of forgetfullness (he will remember them no more!),is that not awsome or what!
jesus said,i am the truth,the way and the life,no one may come unto the father except THROUGH me.you can’t go around him,avoid him,side step him,only by the blood of jesus will god even hear your words.
so give your life to him today.i was moved by the holy spirit to write this for someone,you know who you are.
Perhaps John 3:16 needs to be updated to be true in the eyes of the faithful here.
john 3:16 for god so loved YOU(as long as yer not gay) that he sent his only begotten son to die for YOU(but not the homos),so you may not perish (only the fags will die),but have everlasting life(where you git ta watch the fudge packers burn in hell).
for whosoever calls upon the name of the lord SHALL BE SAVED(except gays)!
Like I said (Keith), if you spend all your time thinking about everyone else’s sins, who will deal with yours? When you wrote that list of sins that will result in death, did you think of how many you may have committed? I bet not. Unless, of course, you are sinless and pure as unto God himself, then you have no sins to worry about and all the time in the world to tell everyone else how to live.
You like Bible quotes? How about this one: “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” -Jesus.
i am not a sodimite,and my sins are covered by the blood of christ.if your a homo then your going to hell,sure enough! i know and speak jesus christ and my father everyday.oh boy,that stirred them demons up in you did’nt it? well at least you can’t say you wer’nt warned!
First of all, it is spelled sodOmite, after the city of Sodom. Poor grammar is the first sign of a poor education and refusal to capitalize when typing is a sign of laziness.
Secondly, Christ died for ALL of our sins, not just yours. I realize that it is critically iimportant to you that you believe God only loves you, but He loves all his children infinitely.
As for stirring up demons in me…I think you might be projecting. (Accusing me of having your problems) I know I am going to Heaven because I seek forgiveness and truly repent my sins. I do my best to live my faith instead of just talking it.
It is so disappointing when someone uses God as an excuse to hate people. God loves, Satan hates.
is that all you can do is twist crap around while avoiding the real issue,and trying feebably to make the other person seem like he is the one whos at fault?
you got to be a libral,you got the twist someones words thing down to science.
where did i imply jesus loves me alone?
where did i imply he was crucified for only me?
you avoided the main issue like a true lib.
ARE YOU A HOMOSEXUAL? YES OR NO
answer without all the double talk and word twisting,IF YOU CAN.
and where did i state i hate homosexuals? i don’t like em for sure,but i don’t hate em,as the old saying goes,love the sinner,but hate the sin!
seems to me telling them how to find christs forgiveness and taking the time to do so is a act of kindness and i am doing what i was told to do,go out into all the world and spread the gospel. what theology you adhere to? bet you won’t tell us,will you.i am a penticostal and go to a assembly of god church.straight up truth,no suger coated mamby pamby watered down touchy feely gospel that sounds more like a motivational speech than gods word.we get the whole word,love and judgement,life & death.what denomination are you?
you’ll probably avoid answering i bet and give a no answer reply.
you consider telling someone the TRUTH hate??????telling someone their sin is going to take em to hell hate????? jesus called the sandhedron snakes and a brood of vipers,dead men walking,hypocrites.he went off in the temple consumed with RIGHTOUS ANGER at what they were doing.of course they called him crazy and a radical as well,even his own family and he was accused of having demons,so i expect to be ridiculed by those who DON’T won’t to hear the straight up truth.
jesus stated…the same thing they did to him they would do to me and he said i would be blessed when they did so,without realizing it you blessed me (thanks),
he also said that in the last days they would call wrong right and right wrong.
so to get back to the original theme,ARE YOU A HOMOSEXUAL? YES OR NO?
to just talk about the love of god and not talk about the fear of god is not biblical at all.
it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living god.
the fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom
lean not on your own understanding,but by every WORD that proceedeth out from the mouth of god.
it is appointed unto man once to die and after that face judgement.
the consequences of sin is death,to keep doing it even after being saved is,REBELLION and DISOBEDIANCE.god is not to be mocked or played with.if you go to a church where the consequences of sin is not taught you need to hightail out of there and go to where you can get the whole rhema.
go ahead and play with the LORD.if you don’t tell people the consequences of sin their blood shall be on your hands.
WHAT THINK YE GOOD CHRISTIANS-
Ted Arthur Haggard (born June 27, 1956) is a former American evangelical PREACHER. Known as Pastor Ted to the congregations he served, he is the founder and former pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado; a founder of the Association of Life-Giving Churches; and was leader of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) from 2003 until November 2006.
In November 2006, he resigned or was removed from all of his leadership positions after he admitted soliciting prostitute Mike Jones for homosexual sex and methamphetamine. Initially Haggard denied even knowing Mike Jones, but as a media investigation proceeded he acknowledged that some allegations, such as his purchase of methamphetamine, were true. He later added “sexual immorality” to his list of confessions.
V. Gene Robinson (born May 29, 1947 in Fayette County, Kentucky) is the ninth bishop of the Diocese of New Hampshire in the Episcopal Church in the United States of America. Robinson was elected bishop in 2003 and entered office in March 2004. Before becoming bishop, he served as assistant to the retiring New Hampshire bishop.
Robinson is widely known for being the first openly gay, non-celibate priest to be ordained a bishop in a major Christian denomination believing in the historic episcopate.
A 2004 Gallup Poll found that about one-third of Americans believe the Bible to be literally true.
The same poll found 48 percent regard the Bible as divinely inspired but not always to be taken literally. They say that the Bible contains the word of God and also material that must be rejected because it opposes God’s will. This includes passages that can be read as approving of slavery, torture of prisoners and treating women as property.
This view says God is inseparable from all things and therefore a part of everyone’s experience. So religious truth must be seen against the backdrop of human experience. If Bible passages are morally reprehensible, they may be rejected as a vestige of some ancient writer’s cultural bias.
I’d say your numbers are probably a whole lot larger now in 2009. I think our numbers will be very very low real soon, On this matter you are absolutly correct. But Matthew 7:13 & 14 explain clearly why: 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I’d re-read #14
We are all aware and waiting for it.
Saying Christianity is bad due to a few people in the clergy going bad is like saying because a few homosexual are raping babies therefore all homosexuals are child molesters.
Sounds like hypocracy big time-
Presbyterian Church
Leaders of the Presbyterian Church (USA) overturned a long-standing ban on the ordination of gays and lesbians Friday, providing yet the latest example of a religious denomination struggling with how, and whether, to incorporate homosexuality into church life.
United Methodists
Some congregations, such as Central United Methodist Church in Stockton, have made statements within the church and the community that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people are welcome. These churches could have homosexual leadership.
Unitarian Universalist
The Unitarian Universalist Association was North American’s first large religious organization to allow gays and bisexuals to become clergy. Since the 1970s, the church has been ordaining openly-gay clergy. The Unitarian Universalist’s General Assembly in 1970 passed a resolution opposing laws that discriminated against gays and lesbians and in 1980 passed one urging the church to find posts for openly homosexual and bisexual clergy.
jesus said all this was going to happen,why be surprised? did he not say that in the endtimes,many would be led astray,wanting to hear what their itching ears wanted to hear? he said many would come in his name and that many false prophets and deceivers would come.
that is why he said test the spirits to see if they are of god,any spirit that does not say or will not say,that jesus christ came to the earth and shed his blood to redeem the world and is ruler and lord, is not of god.
he said not everyone who says lord lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven,jesus will say,depart from me cause i never KNEW you.(he knows his own!)
even the very elect he said would be fooled,which is why you have to relie on the holy spirit to show you whats going on.
he (jesus),said satan can come in the guise of light,he said by their fruits you shall know them and whether they strictly adhere to the word of the lord (bible),if they ere from it,FLEE,VAMOOSE,DON’T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) LEAVING!
expect it to get worse and worse,god is pouring out his spirit now bringing in the last harvest,when he is done,WATCHOUT!satan is also busy doing everything within his limited means to deceive and destroy as many as he can,he knows his time is short and his sorry can is about to be chucked in hell where he belongs.
actually it is,jesus came in the flesh and died and is the son of god and his blood has redeemed the world.demons CANNOT and do not like to say it,since they know it is jesus who’s blood has given us the power over them and sealed their fate! (i still think i did’nt exactly word that scripture right).i have seen demons who could not say it and that was when i knew who and what they were and what i was dealing with.
Keith – you do a great Church Lady impersonation. could it be….. SATAN ….(WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).
OK you caught me…. I’m a demon. I carefully file my horns down every night so I can fool everybody. I actually look forward to getting back home to my warm place. It’s cold up here… particularly Wisonson in the middle of winter.
Seriously dude. you need to get back on the meds.
We are aware of this. The Bible warned us about this: Man calls bad good in the last days. But that still does not make it right. If there was but 1 single straight person among billions on this earth, that 1 straight person would be right and the billions would be wrong.
“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them” (Romans 1:26-32).
Let me start by saying sorry.
I am looking for truth and according to the bible KJV if a prophet is of God, and from God then it is the truth.
According to St Mark (ch 13), Jesus is explaining when the second coming will be.
So why then in verse 29-31 does it say “So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, that THIS GENERATION shall not pass till all these things be done.”
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
So the second coming of Christ has already happened. Either that or accoring to the Bible itself we are not to believe it.
Any thoughts…
Again sorry, I am looking for truth.
There are several other verses that lead me to believe that the Bible was written by a flawed few men.
hey,thought i would reply….
jesus was talking about the signs of the times,the immorality,morral decay,rebellion to his word,occults growing more prevelant and so on.
you know,nigh,means close,almost here,at the doors mean,literally right outside,ready to happen as if it was right outside your front door!!!!!!
remember david,jesus said,a thousand years is as one day and a day a thousand years,god who is infinate does not see or veiw time as we do while here existing in our temporary mortal bodies,he was,is and will be forever more,eternal.
you have to remember jesus here was also referring to the sacking of jeruselem by the romans,a lot of times when jesus referred to things that were going to happen in their generations lifetime people get it confused with things thst are predicted and will come to pass in the endtimes.
no the rapture or taking away of the saints has NOT happened yet! see they,(the hebrews) wanted jesus to be a earthly king and he of course had not come to do that,he was telling them that jeruselem was going to be overthrown and the temple destroyed since it was earthly and thereby temperal.the hebrews thought because they were gods people (and they were and are) they would be safe.jesus had come not only to fulfil the law,but to replace the levitical law which was being and had been corrupted by the sanhedron (the ruling preists) so much so that people were in gross error and the law had become grevious and burdensome.
jesus came to remove the law and fulfil it.we are now in the dispensation (age) of grace.we are no longer to be judged by the law but by our obediance to the word and the holy spirit.
GRACE: Gods Riches At Christs Expense had come
we are currently in the age of grace,meaning anybody now can come to god and enter the most holy of holys and come before god through the blood of christ and not have to do it through the old testiment levitical law which was given to moses at sinai.
tried to make this short and to the point.get a good study bible,i use a dakes study bible and a strongs concordance to look up interconnected scriptures.
hope this helped!
the hebrews has become proud,they were originally supposed to show the world the glory of god.they had became decadent and self-rightous and god had had enough.the sanhedron,pharisees and the sajucees had used the law to get rich and had corrupted it,jesus saw and predicted their downfall,which is what he was talking about.he was giving a warning to be alert and watch for it.
read about where jesus was sitting on the mount of olives and was looking at jeruselem and wept and said,if only you had come to me,i would have protected you as a mother hen spreads her wings to protect her chicks.he saw the coming destruction and what the romans were about to do,yet no one beleived him.they all thought he was a kook.
crazy mofo. U sure u didn’t get out too early? Little more group therapy might have helped.
David: How about the fact that there is no indication otherwise.
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
Hi David. If you read stating Matthew 24:32-35 you will see Jesus was talking about Israel coming back into existence. That within a generation of that happening, he will return. Now bare in mind that lengths of gyration’s range from 40-60=80=and even a 100 years in the Bible. Israel came back into existence in 1 day (as foretold in the bible) on May 14, 1948 after over 2000 years. No nation in the world has ever came into being in just 1 day let alone been prophecied that very event over 2000 years earlier.
Ya know… I go away for a few weeks on a nice vacation. Some sun, some sand, a few laughs, some drinks… its all good. And then I come back… and all i see is hate fuelled Christo-fascist anti-gay rhetoric.
Now whether or not I’m going to hell is one issue… and certainly NOT the focus of this conversation. If a few of you feel the need to “guide” me or “educate” me.. I can handle that… maybe I can show you the error of your own ways, but I highly doubt it and again, that’s not the point.
The real point being argued was whether society has the right to restrict the rights of certain individuals based on their sexual preferences… not whether a particular god or tooth fairy says its wrong, not whether one book of the bible says one thing in contravention of another… that’s completely moot here. The issue is society not GOD. We cannot live together as a people if we let one religion dictate how we should act towards our fellow man, particularly when one interpretation of one religion runs completely counter to our secular rights and freedoms.
And I know you’re all going to jump up and say that I’m now going to Hell. I don’t give a flying !@!#$. Again, that’s not the point. I’m seriously wondering if there are any rational people here that can hold a logical argument or if everyone just says GOD and that trumps all discussion. So much for five thousand years of philosophical discourse. Gone like a trailer in a tornado.
Far as I can see, the issue has been completely seconded to a bible study group. So be it… you can all kiss Tammy Fayes over-pancaked face (i’m being gentle her) and bow down with your aquiescent subservient brainless idolatry. Oh yeah, that’s the definition of Islam. Well I guess it means you too.
Now as for the single semi-intelligent response that I received while away… and it was from the ever effusive 13… missed ya… the reason that gays cannot rely solely upon civil contracts, is because these contracts can be set aside, and have been, by the courts with typically sibling family members arguing that the contractor was not of sound mind. Also these contracts do not go anywhere near to rectifying many of the inequities out there. How do you contract so that you can visit a same-sex spouse in a hospital while they’re dying and the hospital won’t let you see them. How do you contract to obtain spousal benefits from job-insurance or pension benefits when they are run by third part companies and governments. I agree with you 13, that if we can create a level playing field recognizing the same basic civil rights for same -sex couples that traditional married couples have, including responsibilities under divorce law and child protection acts, then the issue would be moot. Common law civil structures could be created for non-religious couples and religious couples could use the term marriage. A rose by any other name…..
Again, I know that the Jesus freaks are going to lambast me and tell me how much they care about my eternal soul while it frys in the fiery depths of hell… but while I’m here in this world, I’d like to think that I can love my fellow citizen and live peacably side by side with them while everyone is accorded the same rights and freedoms. A truly un-American dream.
Ahhh Rodin, I see they’ve let you out of the asylum just
long enough to espouse your vile hatred of your fellow
man and become orgasmic at the sound ( or reading )
of your own voice. I know that you don’t believe in any
kind of afterlife, but when you’re no longer here to
regale us with your superfluous wisdom, I hope you
get to meet one of the thousands of accomplished
scientists ( in whatever realm you’re in ) who believed
in that “tooth fairy” of a GOD that you like to tweak us
with. I love how you like to constantly put down people
of faith. But how often is it that scientists who say they
have proven a theory later admit that they got it wrong?
Or years after their deaths new evidence and another
scientist prove them wrong? Scientists and doctors
these days base their “facts” on how much more grant
money they can recieve from creating more concern
among the sheepish masses. How are these science
WHORES any different from the televangelists that
you love to hate? I’m happy for your belief, that your
“faith” is better than mine.
Dale
How very like you. Attack the person rather than address the issues. First of all, my “vile hatred”. For what am I honored with that most extreme of descriptions. I don’t believe I’ve ever expressed hatred for the Christo-fascist mullahs, merely the desire that they stop discriminating against those of different beliefs and not impose their brand of morality through the secular institutions. I don’t believe that’s hatred. Telling somebody that they are evil perverts and should be stripped of citizenship and not be granted any of the common rights that are granted to Christians only… I think that’s more akin to hatred. I don’t espouse taking any rights away from Christo-fascists except those which limit the rights of others. For instance… the point has been made that Christians should have the right not to see any homosexuality at all. They should be able to walk down the street without seeing two men holding hands or two women kissing. Therefore the right to hold hands or kiss becomes an “exclusive” right to whomever the Christo-fascists say should have it. They become the mullahs of society.
Now you and I did not set out to argue the truth of either of our belief structures. You want to call mine faith… that’s ok too. I think that everyone on the planet believes their own thoughts to be “right”. What is needed is the ability to arrive at a common set of rights and principles so that we can all believe what we want without hurting our neighbors. On that tack, you fail. You would espouse a system justifying the ability to hurt one group of people where they do you no harm. Again, I am not espousing hatred towards you by saying that. Merely restating the facts of what you have previously ranted so eloquently.
My point and one that you have failed to make any argument against, is that people in general have equality in our system and that equality is guaranteed through our secular laws. We cannot subordinate these secular laws to a particular interpretation of a particular religion or the rights mean absolutely nothing since they no longer are “rights”. Neither you nor any of the Christo-fascists have addressed this issue except to say (some of your friends) that the secular equity laws should NOT protect people the mullahs don’t like. And then tell me that I’m going to burn in hell fire for eternity.
BTW Rodin, I meant to add that I find it quite amusing
that you and Dick Cheney actually see eye to eye on something. He said that, “Freedom means freedom for everyone,” adding, “I think people ought to be free
to enter into any kind of union they wish,
any kind of arrangement they wish.”
So I guess Dick is okay with plural marriages like one
man married to two women or one woman married to
three bisexual men. How about one man and 50 women?
“Yeah that’s the ticket!” ( to quote another SNL character ), let’s bring back HAREMS! Surely no red
blooded American or Middle-Eastern American male
is going to argue with that. And as long as she is…
“consenting” ;>) ;>) , why can’t a 55 year old man
marry his 12 year old arranged bride? Sure he’s old
enough to be her grandpa, but shouldn’t they have the “same rights and freedoms to enter into ANY kind of
union or arrangement thay want?”
How far would you and Dick like to go with this?
But what really blew me away based on the profundity
of love and respect you have for everyone on these
comment boards was your statement,
“but while I’m here in this world, I’d like to think that I can love my fellow citizen and live peacably side by side with them while everyone is accorded the same rights and freedoms.” NOW you’re Mother Teresa and
Mister Rogers all rolled into one?!? Wow. That vacation
must have really done you some good.
So many arguments… well at least you have attempted some form of rational discourse. You argue that we cannot grant certain rights because that would open the door to have to grant rights to other people. Hmmmm. Now before I completely destroy your arguments, you may want to read some of my previous discourses on the very subjects you speak of.
First of all – polygamy – I neither espouse it nor do think the people involved should be eradicated from the planet. As far as I’m concerned it’s irrelevant EXCEPT to say that those involved in it, and there ARE people currently involved in it – check some of your Mormon sects or some of the Islamic branches, these people should not be deprived of our social structures. A wife that wants to leave an abusive polygamist common-law husband should have the same protections that any wife in any relationship has. She should be able to be protected by society and she should be able to sue for custody and support. I’m not saying we have to create another category for taxation and census bureau information, but these people DO exist and it would be sheer folly to “wish them away”. Better to deal with it out in the open.
As for your second argument of an old man and a minor. Again you are shooting your mouth without thinking first. Nobody is articulating an argument to take advantage of minor children. The only thing I want to see is fair rights for consensual “ADULT” relationships. If you want to grant 12 year old girls the right to pick a sexual and life partner, then you’ve got a lot more problems than I do. Right now children are protected by secular law from people like you. And your friends like to call me a “pervert”. Perhaps my language was a little bit strong and perhaps you didn’t mean to infer that children could enter consensual relationships with 50 year old men… if that’s the case I apologize, but if you want to stick with that tack and take away consensuality from relationships, then all the rights we both espouse mean absolutely nothing. So I’ll let you apologize.
Regarding your friend Dick – I never liked him – thought the vast majority of what he had to say was morally simplistic and … dare I say… self-serving. The war in Iraq was one of the most serious blunders of American policy in the last 100 years and he and Bush are directly responsible for the loss of thousands of American lives and about a trillion dollars of wastage. However, there was the occasional policy that I might have agreed upon, maybe a trade related issue here or there where he was not pandering to an elite financial group,,,, but by and large I am pretty glad those days are behind us.
As for your Mr Rogers analogy… I don’t mind living my life according to principles of right and fairness…. what others would you have?
Hey you bible quoters-
Can all sins be forgiven?
Yes – “Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” (Acts 10:43) “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)
No – “Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (Matthew 12:32) “Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.” (Mark 3:29)
Norm, here’s a reply to:
Hey you bible quoters-
Can all sins be forgiven?
Yes – “Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” (Acts 10:43) “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)
YES,but there is 1 great BIG BUT after that:John 8:1-11 Go and Sin no More
This country is under a spiritual attack because of lack of God and Jesus Christ. God is turning his face against the United states because of all of its Iniquities and sins. Ezekiel 20:32 This Nation was founded Under God. We have turned our backs on him just as Israel had done. We will either repent as a Nation, or be destroyed as a Nation. We must turn from our sins and be obedient to Gods Word…. REPENT
We, as humans like to think of ourselves as special. The idea that we will die and simply cease to exits it a scary thought, and difficult to comprehend. We want to think that this planet is more than a speck of dust in the universe among trillions of other similar planets were there may be billions of life forms more advanced than us. We like to think of ourselves as above the animals and that somehow this planet is special, that humans are special, and that we as individuals are special. Therefore, we are ripe for wanting to believe religions that tell us what we want to hear, rather than what’s true.
i just want to ask this question whom do you fear god or the devil some people dont understand who the devil is yeah hes ugly before he became ugly if you know where he was then you gay people should try to understand this stop letting the devil ride your backs he is indeed very powerful and yeah ugly whom do you fear god or the devil i dont fear him you know why because he didnt put me here on earth its like this i can stray and not obey god but i know that i have to come back to the farther why because he is a forgiving farther do you think that i would turn to the devil for help you couldnt pay me to marry another man you couldnt pay me as a pastor to marry another man to that other man even all the money in the world this is just a test for us human beings its two roads simply saying that we cannot serve two masters it states in the bible clearly that no man can marry another man as no woman can marry another woman we lay down with that woman she gets prenant has two girls she has two boys you cannot lay down in a sexual manner with either child its that simple if your child watched a horror movie and it scared the hell out of him or her then that mother and farther has to do thier best to assure them that its just a movie you can lay with your children but not in a sexual manner how are we going to met our maker man holding hands with another man woman holding hands with another woman again i ask whom do you fear god or the devil i fear god you know why its very simple nobody else bought me in this world except with the help of my parents but god almighty god gives and god takes anybody can sin in this world but we have to come to god whether rich or poor quietly or shouting out to him he hears us the reason why i asked that question about three times is because of this reason it states in the bible that god created the heavens and the earth not a lot of people understand i am not perfect but for those who had nothing but hardships suffering those who was treated wrong the peace makers they are blessed when i said the heavens it means that their are more we as humans must try to stop ourselves from temptings such as the wrong feelings thier is no way that i would be caught kissing another man thiers too many sexy women in this world if you look back on the old testiment it stated that god even gave man the right to marry two women that if one woman should die that man would have that other woman i am tired of hearing you gay and lesbians complain about us straight humans as begots its got nothing to do with us being begots it means that you gay people dont read the bible god is watching let me put it to you this way read the bibles story about job now check out the word job not work pay attention jo-b its a story about a man who never ever gave up on god they say that he was near pefect the devil tried his best to take his soul his wife left him his friends stayed by his side while he was near death read the rest of the story let me tell you something maybe this will open your eyes the devil went back into heaven like i said before not a lot of people know or understand in that story about jo-b the devil even tempted god about jo-b wont be faithful now hear me if the devil can go back to heaven what does that tell you number one before he turned out the be the uglyest thing that ever existed he was second in command in heaven not a angel but archangel the most beutiful angel in heaven but sat down when he saw what god created saying to himself those humans should obey me am gonna take over yeah god gave all his angels a mind to think so the devil created war now who would have thought that thier would be war in heaven the devil got thrown out of heaven along with 199 angels right down to the earth when the devil hit the earth he wandered all over it took time for him to lose his perfect look now do you understand we either obey or else we lose no other power can defeat god even though the devil is still very powerful he is still trying to get everybody to follow him he doesnt care who we are but god does thats why if we dont listen we will be punished thank you
Some of the irrational,inflammatory,supposedly Biblical based reactionary responses are hilarious. Anyone who claims they’re Christian are really UNChristian,bigoted,hypocritical,prejudiced,homophobic close minded fear mongers. This is NOT what Christ taught .And you ALL know it.You’re just hiding your prejudices behind interpretations of Scripture and ALL of them are OUT of context. Shame on ALL of you faux-Christians! You people are frauds and charlatans. And no where near being TRUE Christians.Go to church on Sunday and keep pretending like you always do and think you’re Christian,but you KNOW deep down inside you really ARE NOT!!! Saying anyone “chooses” to be gay ,that shows how completely irrational you misinformed dumb nuts really are.
hoo-boy,yah know,sometimes i know just how jesus felt!
Can you p[ease educate me. Which of the scriptures here are taken out of context? I’m not trying to be combative I’m just curious. If I am interpreting them incorrectly I promise to apologize for myself and everyone on this blog.
Since the radical Christians are right and everyone else is wrong, they are mandated to expand their cult to try to include everyone in the world. They want Christian controlled governments to enforce their way of life on the masses and have the authority to punish the “non-believers”. The idea of personal rights and liberties is contrary to surrendering your life and free will to Jesus and doing “his work” as dictated by the church. After all, if you’re not serving Christ, you’re serving Satan, and you are the tool of the Devil and serving an evil purpose. So the idea of personal liberty and free thinking is the same as giving rights to Satan to be evil. Something God would never approve of, but seems powerless to stop. The omnipotent creator seems to have to rely on us mere mortals to do his work for him, and we, accordingly, have that task of winning souls over to Christ. So it’s ok to repress the heathen non-believers because they are the enemy of God.
That argument would almost be sound except that you forgot the secular part of American that will not tolerate that lifestyle as a norm and becoming legal. You should try all the argument against them. The only reason you don’t is because as you know they would ripe you and you’re reasoning apart here. Be not fooled there are many many many more secular people than Christians against this subject. We like you are just easier targets
Thank you Rodin for being the voice of reason, among the ravings of the likes of Denise and her christian ilk.
You’re quite welcome. Fortunately not all Christians are bigotted fascists. There are many that espouse what Christ was trying to teach. These ranting lunatics are a small fringe minority.
How do other (christian) condone this act. I’d love to hear their reasoning and why aren’t any here backing up the life style? I can promise you I have never in my life heard a TRUE Christan agree to that way of life. If they did they definitely are not CHRIST-men. They may be professing being one but they are not.
Yes it is wrong to practice homosexuality! These people use the excuse that God made them the way they are—–Not true, when people are born into the world,they are born into a world of sin. ( Babies are born with cancer ) God does not make people sick! They cannot practice this act if they expect to go to heaven. Because it is sin and sin will not enter in!
I heard a saying: Two Roosters can’t Make An Egg! So True!
Mark, No body is perfect and we all come short of the glory of Godbut we are suppose to work are way to perfection. That is why you pray everyday and ask God to
forgive you because you may sin and not realize it. Sin will not go to heaven!
Denise, Just keep telling it! The truth will set you free or they can believe a lie and be damned!
If people think the Bible is a fable or just a writing——They should read it and see
what is written is coming to pass!
Brady, A great big thank you!!!
Yes, you can be forgiven for all sin! But Jesus told the woman ate the well to go and sin no more!
Denise, Some people are stiff-necked and hard hearted and will never see what is right. Yes, Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for these reasons. If they would only read the bible with an open mind and see it isn’t a fable or tales. The things that are written ( prophecies ) are coming to pass. They have come too late to tell me it is a fake!!
o Hi James. I think about 99% of the gay population have read the Bible about this and do know it is sinful and an abomination to God. I also think, they think, if they don’t except it they are not responsible for their choices. But in their hearts they all (every last single one of them) are aware because the Holy Spirit would let them be judged and dammed for this without hIm giving them a conviction of evilness. I think some may have silenced the Holy Spirit a long long time ago and they no longer hear him. Sometimes I hear “how could a loving Father send anyone to hell and I try to explain that he is being merciful because they could never be happy in Heaven with all those Christians that they hate so much on earth and also that No one in sin can enter into heaven,not even me. But since Jesus covered my sins with his blood God can no longer see them. They are gone forever into the deepest sea never to be brought to memory again.
Go ahead! Live in sin like you wish—-But don’t try to make sin legal. Marrage is between a man and a woman, Otherwise, god would have created one sex!!!!
Government sanctioning and approval through legislation of amorality has all been tried before, but no one wants to admit that history is a harsh teacher. People who deny the reality of its consequences will inevitably corrupt and corrode it into destruction. But don’t listen to to history, just revel in the arrogance of ignorance of its previous results and come to see your own destruction. Don’t say you weren’t warned. Enough voices have been warning of the spiritual corruption that precedes the inevitable downfall of all human beings who ignore the eternal truths of behavior that violates morality and piety.
Add one more Jesus freak to this site. What is it with you fanatics? Do you smell brimstone? I’m confused by the stupidity of what you ponder. You’re saying we should have the Ayatollah’s running the country and creating our laws.
Sweet Rodin, you really should stop calling us all those names. I don’t think you realize it but with every (what you think is) degrading comment you make about us we as Christian consider them as stripes for Christ… Christ basically told us we would know how well we are doing with our walk with him by the strips we take for him. I know this sounds silly to a non-believer but to us it is GOLD. So sweet rodin, Keepem’ coming. I need an uplift after seeing all you guys throw away your very souls.
He does not realize it but with every (what they think is) degrading comment they make about us we as Christians consider them as stripes for Christ… Christ basically told us we would know how well we are doing with our walk with him by the strips we take for him. I know this sounds silly to a non-believer but to us it is GOLD. So sweet they can keepem’ coming. By them, we know that we are walking in that narrow path.
Rodin said: Add one more Jesus freak to this site. What is it with you fanatics? Do you smell brimstone? I’m confused by the stupidity of what you ponder. You’re saying we should have the Ayatollah’s running the country and creating our laws.
I will not respond to the emotional outburst of your words. Let me rather give you the benefit of the doubt that you are adult enough to have a discourse that recognizes that your opinion is only important to you.
God doesn’t care one whit about your opinion of Him. Neither do I of your evaluation of my post. First let me help you understand where you and the Ayatollah sit in God’s eyes. Ready…you and the Ayatollah do not exist. Since your words keep you separated from Him, the word separated means exactly that. to God you do not exist to Him. So your words, as angry as you can make them fall on deaf ears and you are simply wasting your time.
Man comes to God on God’s terms as proscribed by Jesus Christ in the Gospels or you and the Ayatollah will suffer His justice whether you or the Ayatollah like it or not. Your choice is to come to Him or fry, that your choice. We will see who ends up being the stupid one.
My nephew is gay! My sister told him it was wrong and she didn’t approve. She told him he was her son and she would always love him but she couldn’t believe he would give up god for (him) his lover! Said she would pray for him!! She told him he couldn’t be saved as long as he practiced this act.
Denise, Go girl Go!!!!!!!!!!!!
nogaymarriage.com
To Omar and Rodin:
Omar: God did write the Bible. It is his word sent to us to direct us to Jesus Christ. If you choose not to follow, so be it. I will add you to our prayer list.
Rodin: Just read the first chapter of Romans. This tells exactly what is happening in this world today. God made the rules, God will judge each according to his actions, but in the end, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
I will add you to our prayer list.
I have both immediate and extended members in my own family that have succumbed to the fad of becoming “gay”. Why do I say it that way because I lived with many of them all my life and knew of their personalities from childhood. Then at some point they began to “separate” from everything they had “valued”. It wasn’t suddenly either it took time for this transformation to happen. It started with a noticeable “rebellious spirit” and a rejection of everything dealing with “sexual morality”. Finally they found “acceptance” of their “rebelliousness” with groups whose philosophy and activities were very self-destructive due to the total concentration of their focus on sexual self-gratification and narcissistic aggrandizement of their purpose for living. Like an addiction it makes them sick and enslaved to a way of thinking that completely destroys them. Now I have a brother who is dying from AIDS and cancer. A nephew with AIDS and a cousin who has HIV. I hate Satan and all of his works, not my family members. So don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about.
I am so sorry about all your pain. I can not amagine what you are going through. Have any of them changed their way of thinking about their choices? I pray they do.
I also had two nephews that changed from the norm, getting into drugs and adopting a homosexual life style. One died at 26 from aids, the other at 39 from aids. In addition, their adopted life styles sent my brother to an early grave (61). I have seen first hand what this does to you. It is not a pretty sight.
these people think we hate them. They don’t see you here that have lost loved to the power of satan. Of course we hate the sin not them,
I am sooy about your losses Jim. Did any ofthem rethink their choices?
Would ANY of you “Christians” look in the Bible and find anywhere Jesus said ANYTHING about the sexual behavior of ANYBODY?
If that piece of truth doesn’t terrify you, read chapter 6 of Matthew and absorb the message. Let me know what you read, and post your interpretation.
HINT: there is a heck of a surprise for the ones who get this one right.
John T.
Now apart from the religious babble, let’s take a look at the Pledge of Allegiance, particularly the last 6 words: “With LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL”, with your eyes on that very last word, tell me how it’s Constitutional to separate anybody be sexual orientation.
If you want a government big enough to regulate who is screwing who, you’ll have to be willing to accept a government big enough to micromanage YOUR life. I don’t want that. If you don’t support gay amrriage, don’t marry somebody of your own sex.
Who is being hurt by gay marriage? It’s not like somebody can be gay AT you, they are just living their lives.
When is hte last time a bunch of gays attacked a Christain and drug him behind a truck until he died? When has a group of gays cruised the streets and looked for a Christian to beat with bats?
Is there a Christian who actually knows what is in the Bible? If so, can you provide some balance to the inane rhetoric on this board?
John, do you mind if I ask which verse or verses you are referring to. Many things were addressed in chapter 6. I would be happy to try to address your question if you would permit me to do so. Just let me know which ones you need a response to. And as for all the crimes committed toward any gay person for any reason is an abominable act and should never be tolerated nor go without severe punishment. But in all fairness to both sides of the debate if we were to Google crimes against straights and Christians I believe it would make your argument mute on that point.
John: I have read Chapter 6 in Romans. The last verse pretty well says it all. 23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You obviously do not get it. To sin, or to support a sinful nature is against God. In Leviticus, God states that for man to lie with man as with woman is an abomination.
Do you understand what that means? Jesus spoke of sin many times. He will forgive your sin, but He also tells you to go and sin no more.
As for your question as to who is being hurt by gay marriage. Those that participate in the marriage, those that perform the marriage and those that support the marriage are hurt by it. God created man and woman. Not man and man….
You should read the Bible and STUDY IT. Then maybe you can find some peace.
Jim – as usual you Christo-fascists left your brains at the door before you decided to respond. You equate hurt with being punished by God. That is a “faith based” judgement not one based on fact. The “hurt” only exists if and when your interpretation of a god deigns to punish a sinner. Otherwise there is NO HURT for those involved in the marriage, those who perform it or those that support it. On the contrary there is abundant JOY for all those involved. If you want to support a belief system that demotes JOY to the level of SIN then be my guest…. but it has no basis in reality and the belief system itself will hurt people.
AS for reading, why don’t you read a little more science fiction and get a deeper grounding in humanity’s creative abilities. PEACE be with you in your own interpretations but STOP hurting others.
Facist, boy thats the pot calling the kettle black.
Just remember my communist freinds, Hitler was a socialist.
If you look in your copy of Chairman Mao’s little red book of quotations, you will find that he uses the terms socialist and communist together and interchangeably.
But, maybe Rodin is correct, we should not draw any lines, if it brings Rodin and comrades joy they will support it. Maybe one of them has a donkey they are partial to, maybe they would like to unite in marital bliss.
By the way Joseph Stalin refers to you progressive types as useful idiots. Think about it….
Really? It seems to be in your twisted and warped mind there’s no room for some history facts. Just bc Hitler’s National Socialists have the word SOCIALIST, the Movement and the theory of National Socialism 100% opposite what you and many others think.
In fact, Nationalsocialism (in one word), based on Nature’s and God’s laws, therefore, totally opposite to materialistic and anti-God communist system. After teh democratic election of Adolf Hitler in 1933, the communist terrorists runned amok and murdered anyone – even teenage boys and girls – for being in the anti-communist NS Movement. Hitler therefore was forced to protect his people and the children from these subhumanoids and declared the communist party unlawful. As of me, I would have rounded-up all commies and execute them overnight. No free speech, no rights for a commie. For em it doesn’t matter of 10 MILLION communist would be executed in 24 hours, or only 200. To kill a commie is not a crime, it’s an environmental disease control.
Regarding NS, there’s a huge difference between Nationalsocialism and materialistic (marxist) socialism. Marxism based on talmudian anti-God rhetoric and basically a useless form of “idea”. Marx and his jewish friends dreamed the socialism for taking over and replace the Christian values world-wide, replace the Christian leadership by judeo-bolsheviks.
Hitler was NOT socialist. The communists were his biggest enemies.
Where the heck do you get your analogies from? Do you just reach into outer space and say the first thing that pops into your mind. What the F@#K has Stalin and Hitler got to do with my espousing that we treat everyone respectfully? Or perhaps you see everything through black clouded glasses and can’t freaking read. I’ve not brought up any form of government or philosophy other than traditional western ideals of equality and respect. My economics are pretty much middle of the road, (I’d expand on that if I thought you might be able to understand the concepts but fear your grade 6 education has left you severely wanting and easily led by other bigots)
As for the “WORD” FASCISM – YOU WOULD SEEK TO DISCRIMINATE, DISRESPECT AND HURT A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF OUR SOCIETY and DO IT LEGALLY.. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO USE ANOTHER WORD FOR IT.
I’m not going to argue about Hitler being a socialist or Marx having Jewish friends or the Talmud being Anti-God or any of your other White Trash ideas… they’re irrelevant – you refuse to treat and respect equally others with different lifestyles and that do you no harm. SHAME – I’m sure the KKK and the Aryan Brotherhood or the extreme Christian churches have a place for you. Take your bigotry over to them.
Jim, with all due respect, I believe you missed the boat on this one.
We all are going to die (DEATH), 1st death because of sin in our lives.
True, sin kills us all.The GIFT (FREE GIFT) of GOD is eternal life
through JESUS CHRIST our LORD.
The one who says JESUS is not CHRIST, (REDEMER from our sins, yours &
mine, has condemned himself. 2nd death, eternal hell. We all haved sinned and do sin & fall short of the GLORY of GOD. You, included. That free gift of that precious Blood that covers our sins is where the
rubber meets the road for those who believe.
For it is written: For GOD so Loved the world, HE gave HIS only begotten SON, that who-so-ever believe shall NOT DIE, but have ETERNAL
LIFE.
I am not going to discuss something with you that you obviously do not understand. I will say that in the end, those who disobey God will be severly punished. If you do not believe that, fine. That is the choice God gives you. Only thru the acceptance of Jesus Christ as your savior will you see this. I will pray for you and as I have said before, Omar and Rodin.
Dude – you can pray for me all you want but while you’re here on this earth, I’d appreciate if you stopped hurting and disrespecting others. Attitudes of bigotry and hatred are not excused by any assertion of religious right. Your kind is responsible for ALL the gay-bashing homophobic haters and killers in society. WHAT MORE IS THERE TO UNDERSTAND?
How sweet. Rodin has a heart. You are not as hateful as everyone says you are. I will make sure you get a big mess of flowers at your funeral.
My favorite are tulips, (preferably with a tongue between them).
Im sorry Rodin, There is too much danger involved with that one. The last time I gave a mess of flowers like that I had to carry the lady out to her car afterwards.
i suppose you also have that attitude towards god as well as he has the SAME veiws(read HIS word..the bible)your problem is with HIM!
Rodin said: “Maybe we need a new category of mercy killing called “Christianicide” to help put you out of your misery and stop infecting others with rabid hateful ideas.”
Then said: “some Americans don’t want to celebrate Christmas? egads – lets put the lot of them in stocks and lynch all the non-believers.”
Do as you say but not as you do, eh?
First of all, I understand that in your rabid indoctrination of hate, you probably left your sense of humor at the door. My first comment was that the person was obviously in so much pain here on Earth she would prefer to be living amongst those in the hereafter. Hence the word Christianicide similar to any other form of mercy killing for the sick and suffering.
Secondly, perhaps my writing skills are not up to par as I was trying to attribute the “lynching” comment as a tongue in cheek (possibly) assertion of what the Christo-fascists want to do with the gay community or anybody else that doesn’t believe in their extremist religion. I did NOT mean we should put the Christo-fascists in stocks nor that they should be lynched. AGAIN I was paraphrasing the comments about what the Christo-fascists want to do with others.
I have always maintained that I will respectfully live next door to any neighbor that doesn’t espouse hurting me or anybody else.
“First of all, I understand that in your rabid indoctrination of hate,”
It is becoming apparent that what you “understand” is little more than how best to demonstrate the blind epitome of hypocrisy – seasoned liberally with puerile, tantrum-throwing antics of a child who never learned to take any criticism.
Your raison d’être seems little more than to insult and demean everyone here. Worse, you’re bad at it, attributing quotes, motives, and emotions to people who neither spoke, nor gave any indication of feeling, what you accuse.
If I felt anything, it would be pity, but I simply don’t care enough about the “rabid” ranting of someone capable of expressing nothing but “hate” and hypocrisy to feel anything.
I just don’t care.
Good luck with your hypocritical tantrums. They seem to be winning you plenty of arguments and friends.
You think I’m hypocrital???? Where have I ever expressed any assertion that Christo-fascists should have less rights than gays. You and your ilk are the ones that propose a two tiered society – those who agree with you and those who are to be treated as moral sinners and not accorded the same rights. Your pity I can do without as I do just fine without you. And I’m happy to throw myself into this “lion’s den” if it means I can expose one more Christo-fascist for the hypocrites they all are.
“You think I’m hypocrital????”
No – it’s that you’ve proven you are. I am but an observer.
“Where have I ever expressed any assertion that Christo-fascists should have less rights than gays.”
First, interrogative statements end with a question mark.
Second, I never said anything of the sort – I just pointed out that you, by your own words, contradicted yourself.
“You and your ilk”
You know nothing of me, or my “ilk.”
“are the ones that propose a two tiered society – those who agree with you and those who are to be treated as moral sinners and not accorded the same rights.”
That’s actually what you’re doing. Everyone who agrees with you is welcome to the party; everyone else is a, what, “Christo-fascist?”
I’m an atheist. Have fun with that.
“Your pity I can do without”
Say it ain’t so; and here, through your idiotic assumptions, I thought you thought I was being so gracious!
“as I do just fine without you.”
And without rational thought. Congratulations.
Look at what you just said about needing a new category of mercy killing Christains. Even Rodin the most out spoked supporter you have here has not mentioned or even hinted of wanting to murder anyone. I bet if I google your real name in the future I will find that to had been put to death by the courts for murder or worse.Actually you have more freedom than any secular or Christian in America… If we said that but replaced the word christiancide with fagacide we would be facing criminal charges. I really don’t believe you have a whole to be disgruntled about when you can get away with threatening to murder a particular people and saying something like that to someone does not believe as you… Nobody, NO NOBODY, on this site has in any way threatened or even hinted at doing harm to a single one of your kind and yet you say WE, yep, WE, are the sick ones here. You my friend are the MURDEROUS HATER. But thank you for all the stripes we take for Jesus. That is just most wondrously confirms we are doing what is right in the eyes of our Father. Thank you again for the stripe.
Two roosters can’t make an egg!!!!!!!!!!!
And what has that got to do with the argument of treating people fairly?
Marriage historically is the union of one man and one woman for the creation of, and raising children if possible. If gay people want to have a union of some sort giving them the same legal rights as married people wherever applicable, so be it, just don’t try to call it a marriage which it certainly is not. Two males in a union, by themselves can not create a child. Two females in a union by themselves can not create a child. So there is no way that a homosexual couple of either sex rationally can call their union a marriage. The fact that homosexuals like to suggest that their union is also a marriage is an attempt to convince the rest of us that they are somehow respectable, or acceptable in their relationship. With a homosexual relationship being abnormal behavior, there is no logic in allowing them to raise children who will probably grow up with an inaccurate way of understanding what normal really means because of what they were lead to believe is all right. Is what I have just written a religious doctrine? No it isn’t, it is just plain old common sense if you bother to think about the situation for more than a fleeting moment and do not allow yourself to be intimidated by a few loud boisterous homosexual supporters.
Right on Russ
I know lots of children being raised by homosexuals both as part of gay partnerships and and as part of co-parenting relationships. The FACT is these kids are just as well balanced as any other children with similar values and ideals. YOUR ideas are hateful and based solely on logic borne from incorrect assumptions. (the assumption that an “abnormal” person cannot be a good parent is utterly ridiculous)
And your hate-filled bigotted ideas are borne from rabid religious xenophobes.
1. Rodin, Russ never mentions anything about religion but yet you assumed he was Why is that? Do you not think that the secular population could be in disapproval of that lifestyle? It is not true that only Christians find it unsettling.
Might I add to Russ’ posting, Marraige does not discriminate against homosexuals! A gay man is as free to marry a woman as any other man is, and a gay woman is free to marry a man.
There are groups that marraige does discriminate against: married people, families, children.
As a married man, I cannot get married to another woman.
Nor can I marry my daughter, sister, mother, etc.
Can a five year old get married?
A five your old can only get married if she belongs to a fundamentalist Christian sect. I don’t care about your religious marriage before your God… You guys set up any rules you want… but in terms of the government and civil society, ALL the rights accorded to married couples should also be granted to same sex couples, I don’t care what you call it.
Rodin is a member of the angry, foul mouthed, gay marriage cult. Those folks will never cede a single point. Truth will not prevail with that crowd. This attitude shows that they know that they stand on shakey ground. They try to shout down all opposing views. My message to the gay marriage fanatics. “LIVE CLEAN AND PROSPER” Forgive me Mr Spock.
Humour… I love it. I thought y’all checked your ability to make a joke at the door when you learned the secret handshake of the xenophobic Christo-fascist born-again conspiracy. Instead of always insulting us, why don’t you just learn to live peacefully and respectfully with your neighbors. If there’s one thing that world politics will teach you it is that Religious Fascism never lasts. It always is defeated by cooler headed ideals of societal openness. Even Iran, which I’m sure is the ideal of all good Christo-fascist Ayatollahs, is beginning to feel it’s first crumblings as the people fight back against the tyranny of the religious oppressors.
IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU THINK WE ARE A SMALL NUMBER OF JESUS–
PEOPLE OR FREAKS, AS WE ARE BEING CALLED.. AFTERALL, THERE WASN’T A MULTITUDE THAT FOLLOWED JESUS! IT WONT BE ANY DIFFERENT TODAY!
Jesus preached love…. you preach HATE and BIGOTRY.
Rodin: Jesus also spoke boldly against sin. The gay lifestyle is dangerous and unclean. As is fornication and adultery and any sexual perversion unclean. God rejects anything that harms his children. He is the perfect father. He warns against sin out of love for all of his children. Sin will eventually destroy any chance we have for true happiness if we do not repent. (change) That goes for christian, Jew, gay,black,white. (everyone) If I have provoked you to anger then I have sinned and ask your forgiveness. It is sin in my case because my remarks were not presented in a kind loving manner. We are to warn others, by being “bold but not overbearing” and afterwards showing extra love so that we are not deemed to be the enemy. I do not hate anyone that I see committing sin or having hardships in life but I do feel concern for them and try to help. We will probably never agree on the marriage issue but I thank god that we both have the freedom to express our opinions. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER
Tom
I respect your opinion that you do not agree with the “rightness” of somebody being gay. That’s an opinion and everybody has them. However, you do not have the right to make anybody else feel badly about themselves regardless of what you think your own personal religion tells you. You do not have the right to inflict pain on somebody by telling them that they are “sinners” and therefore subject to scorn or to being demeaned for their life. That is not acceptable in any free society. And your ability to express your own opinions must be subject to the context of not promulgating hatred. You can’t go into a crowded theatre and yell “fire” and you can’t try to destroy others lives and feelings with your words regardless of whether you believe it is in their best interests. It’s a very fine line Christians are going to have to learn to walk if they want to be respectful of others and other religions. From what I can tell on this website, respect and love are subordinated in your religion to autocracy.
rodin, read most of your posts and I agree with you on most all issues. Where did that guy get that all 45 of the signers were conservative Christians? Totally undocumented! Most were Deists and believed Divine Providence was on their side and did not believe in the Divinity of Christ as defined by today’s definition. The “Divinity of Christ” was a political decision of the Council of Nicea in 325 C.E. Those who that doubt, look it up! I have a bachelors degree in social science with an major in American history. Does what’s his name have a masters in history? George W has an MBA from Harvard.
There are obviously two “Toms” on the forum or I am a dual personality.
Things to answer or debate
Jesus did preach love and he loves you very much. But just like all love, it is conditional. If you turn his love away he will reject you too. He also preached of sin and a great punishment. He took a whip of nine tails to people for goodness sakes. As a perfect sinless God he can not allow sin to enter heaven. If it were not for his blood and forgiveness, none of us would make it. But we can not ask for forgiveness and continue in sin. That is not true repentance. Father is a “Heart Knower” and knows if we are sincere or not. Please think about this Rodin.
amen bro,voices crying out in the wilderness!
Thanks, Tom for showing Rodin the love of Christ. Too often we Christians are bound by a demon or two ourselves, just a different one. I know the Lord would not have spoken to Rodin the way some of the above have. He never minced words – sin is sin, but the overarching message of the Holy Spirit is love. He gives us a choice and grieves when we reject Him. My children often go their own way and do not take the advice of one who has made mistakes and can save them the grief and trouble of making their own. The scars are deep and real, and I grieve to watch my children slip down that slippery slope. God must feel the same way about us sometimes. He waits for us to come to Him, then He can show us His redeeming Power. He can not take away our past, but He heals and redeems. He is waiting for Rodin.
jesus said,”i AM the WAY,the TRUTH and the LIFE!
and,the TRUTH shall set you free.
jesus never minced words just to oppease folks nor ”softened” what he had to say,like him(he IS our example after all)tell it like it is,period,the TRUTH is’nt popular and the rebellious WON’T like it,but TRUTH is TRUTH!
JESUS IS LORD!….PERIOD!!!!!!
JUDGEMENT IS COMING AND IT’S CLOSER THAN MOST THINK!
READ THIS
Gay or not gay is the way you are born. That’s my opinion and I respect your opinion but my mind is made up. Having said that, why are ministers engaging in gay bashing, abortion, atheists/agnostics and prayer in public schools? America is drunk! The problem in America is not economic, it’s alcohol, meth, coke and other drugs. if you need drugs go to a trusted doctor, get an rx and take it according to directions and when you get well get a job and get in an ethical based organization, church, synagogue, temple, etc. Look at the obits in your local paper, aren’t most of younger deaths due to drugs and alcohol? Aren’t most crimes due to alcohol/drug abuse? Aren’t most divorces due to alcohol/drugs and kids of divorce have more emotional scars and isn’t destruction of families a social disease? Aren’t most teenage pregnancies due to alcohol/drugs when you are vunerable? BTW, how many obits are due to being gay, abortion, religious practice or no practice or not praying in schools? If you believe being gay is a choice then sober up and choose not to be gay, choose to pray (do you pray more when you are drunk or sober?)
SOBER UP AMERICA AND THEN AND ONLY THEN OUR ECONOMY WILL TURN ON A DIME !!!!!!! In your heart you know I’m right…
To the other Tom. I agree re the alcohol/drugs being a major problem. But when individuals ignore or are not aware of Gods teachings they get into all sorts of jams. That is the root of the problem. I think that abortion is terrible and tragic. I believe that the gay lifestyle is dangerous and wrong. If expressing our heart felt beliefs is now redefined as hate then we are a world full of haters. Given the new definition of hate, it is no longer a bad thing. Long live hate free thought.
Tom (not sure which one)
First of all – SCREW YOUR GOD – That’s not hateful, because God does not exist. How can one hate something that doesn’t exist.
Second – People need rules so they can live together respectfully without hurting one another. Gays don’t hurt anybody. People who treat gays as second class citizens or having something wrong or being sinful, these people hurt other people. Therefore being anti-gay is bad for society. Therefore, Christo-fascists are hateful and bad for society.
Rodin, You need a sip of corn-mash? lol ! How can you say such nasty comments about these peoples god? How do you expect them to respect you. The first step in making this better is when you get up in the morning you must respect yourself. Look in the mirror and say—Im smart enough, hip enough and liberal enough. And by golly—–people like me. LOL LOL LOL LOL
Hey Rodin you can curse God all you want. Lots of people do. That’s their privilege. Of course you have no proof that he does not exist but I can understand you hoping so. God only reveals himself to those who truly seek him and want to change their life for the better.
Second:
It is clear that your agenda depends upon you being hated because you are gay. Sorry to dissappoint you but I feel no anger or hatred toward you or anyone else. If having someone disagree with you hurts your feelings so much, maybe you should seek some professional counseling.
I love all people, gays are people. But I do not love homosexuality as a lifestyle. I Hate adultery but not the adulterer. Love the sinner hate the sin type of thing.There are plenty of other examples available.
Third:As far as marriage goes you have the same right as I do to marry a woman. If I want to join up with a man I can do so but it would not be marriage. The word marriage comes from the bible and applied to Adam and Eve and their posterity. You obviously do not believe in the bible so what is the real agenda of the gay marriage group. Is it to redefine marriage, the traditional family and Christianity?
Probably since you seem unable to find the flexibility to co-exist with anyone that offends you in any way.
The damage done to others by homosexual behavior goes far beyond hurt feelings.
I will not go into the spread of disease related to promiscuous life styles as it is so obvious to any thinking individual.
TO DENIE SOMETHING IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT,THEREFORE BY STRONGLY DENIEING HIS EXSISTANCE YOU ACTUALLY SAY HE EXISTS!why the anger?where does your hate filled rebelliousness come from?why is there in your SOUL?it’s not the HOLY spirit that is making you belch out such blasphamies,you are in rebellion and are a walking dead man,spiritually dead!the wrath of god sits upon you and you don’t even realize it….yet.there is hope still for you while you draw breath,you can still repent and accept JESUS CHRIST AS SAVIOUR,if not,then enjoy what time god has alloted for you here,cause YOU DEFINATELY ARE’NT GOING TO ENJOY WHERE YOUR GOING TO GO AFTER YOU DIE PHYSICALLY HERE!
You are Christian bashing. Doesn’t that make you as sad as you say we are? How come you never say anything about the secular population that don’t approve either? It is not just us that disapprove. It’s because we don’t talk hate or threaten you with harm etc. Is it that you know that we are the only ones out there in the world that actually care about what happens to you? We don’t just stand by and gay bash and make threats toward you and that we forgive everything you say to us and they would not but rather look for revenge against for your actions or are we just easy target for the hate and bashing.
God will not be mocked. We all have sinned and have come short of His Glory however He has provided a way of an escape from His wrath thru repentance thru Jesus Christ. God has spoken to us thru His word (Jesus Christ) and wants us to renew our mind according to His word. ie… He made man in His image and then saw that it was expedient to provide a help mate (Wo-man) and the two were made to propogate the earth. This was His institution of marriage and anything contrary is a mockery before our creator. When this is not followed He places a curse on the land (read Deut 28). When we follow His plan this is considered wisdom. Anything else is one who is double minded and unsettled in all of their ways. What would happen to a nation if everyone thought like those of the gay’s and lesbians. No children would be birthed and would have zero population within one to two generations. To sum this up everyone has an inner man and Jesus said that we must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. We all will stand before God and must answer to Him upon our death. Many are blinded to the truth and that is the way they choose to be led unless the truth is told and one repents and chooses to follow the only one gate to Heaven which is thru repentance and receving Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.
Sorry, can’t follow a god that teaches hatred. There’s a lot of other good ones out there if I was interested. But yours??? not a chance.
Rodin..God does not teach hatred,but explains to us christian values to live by. If we are not aware of our sin,or expectations from God then we don`t know we are sinning. All we can strive to do every day is to be kind to those around us,don`t steal that is not ours,no lieing,just be honest,be helpful to the needy…and for Gods sake just be a happy person that people want to be around,seek pleasure from nature and your suroundings,and be the best person you can be,contribute to society. DeBra
Above in a previous reply you stated that you DID believe in God and that preached Love. Don’t try to wiggle out now. You believe in God and we both know it. It doesn’t matter anyway rather you believe in him or not. He believes in Rodin.
If there is NO GOD, —–You won’t have to worry about sin!!!! If people would read the Bible, they would see all of the prophecies are coming to pass.
I only worry about the sins you wreak on the rest of us.
Why do you cause trouble wherever you go? Every time you pop up on one of these sites, you cause chaos. If you dont believe in god why do you want to talk about him so much?
Because you and all the other Christo-fascists on this site seem to think that your belief in him and your interpretation of some poorly written and translated fairy tale trumps any ability to make a rational argument.
If you ever want to make a rational argument without trying to end the discussion by saying “that’s what God wants”, then I might just have a listen to you. Otherwise you’re just a blithering idiot.
Rodin,
WOW you are one angry hateful guy. Maybe you should try “religion”.
Anyways…. Be gay, be as gay as you want to be. Just quit expecting to be celebrated for it! Quit expecting to get special treatment for it. Look for your own kind of union come on come up with something unique don’t copy off of those hatefull straight people and call it marriage. Be original. The hypocrisy is you are as full of hate for people of faith as you say they are toward gays. Wether you like it or not one day you will die and the truth will be before your face. May you accept it before it is to late.
It is not profitable for people to argue with you because you don’t want to know truth. You are full of hate. It is all over these pages.
Have you considered finding and debating this with a group of atheist or Muslims? Maybe you might be treated better there. If you didn’t enjoy the fight you would have been outta here a long time ago.. Of course they wouldn’t care about you the way we do. You stay here because we will debate with you and still love you and you would not get that from many others. Admit it Rodin, you enjoy a good fight even thought we can’t back as sometimes we would like. I think you think you are superior because we don’t mistreat you. (well most of us) :>)
Rodin, ole boy, that comment you quoted (the sins you wreak on the
rest of us) ain’t going to fly when you stand before the Lord.
That’s like man-kind tellin God Almighty, Duh! Duh! devil made me
do it. No, Bubba, I want be able to do that and neither will you.
Have a great day, seems like you need one.
Well as far as your Almighty God goes, me and HER have a great relationship. She really LIKES me.
As for your asinine conjecture that I worry about HER sins, that is not true… I worry about the sins that YOU and your HATEFUL kind would wreak upon me and the rest of humanity. You obviously want to hurt others that don’t agree with you on everything. Misanthropic ideologues have no place in an evolving society.
Damn-it-boy!! don’t get your panies in a wod. I didn’t say you didn’t
have a wonderful or great relationship with who-ever. All, I was sayin,
some people like to blame everybody else for their short-comings. In
other words just an opinion, that’s all it ain’t goin to bite or get ya
or hurt ya. If that’s being hateful, excuse me, I try to be kinder &
sweeter next time. Like, I said before, Have a Great Day, seems like you need one.
Denise, Thank you for serving our country! Keep up the good work—- You are doing and saying the right things!!!GO GIRL!!!!!! More power to you!!!!
I did notice it seems the major hate words did not come from those who oppose the alternate lifestyle, but those that support them. hose who seem to be angry and are not for gay marriage should vent their anger at the bought politicians and not at gays. However, it must be noted that the only reason one would marry a same sex partner is to gain public approval, which is a dangerous game. Why should gays marry when most straights just shack up? Interesting Nation we have now.. Christian? I look at the planting of the seed and see 3 of the 4 fall away from the faith. I heard a survey on those who believed the Bible and attended church. Only 43% who attended a Christian Church believed the Word. T
Virgil, you may want to revise your statistics… Christo-fascists HATE gays, otherwise why would they like to keep gays in the closet and deny them rights that straights get automatically. Your ability to think is seriously in jeopardy as well – “Why would gays get married?” What a rhetorical question….
At the height of the cold war, a popular quiz game had the question – “What is the number one reason that Russian women get married” The multiple choice answers included 1. Communist Party Status 2. For money 3. A Better Job or 4. Love. Americans were so f!@#ing stupid that only a small percentage guessed the correct answer “LOVE”
Your statement in itself is hatred if you cannot imagine that a gay couple can love one another. This world will be a far better place when all the Christians and Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Sikhs and people of every other religion based in violence denounce their hatred and past violences… I imagine a better place. Course I’m dreaming in technicolor if I think I’ll ever see it.
Its like I have been told when I was growning up God Made ADAM AND EVE NOT BRUCE AND STEVE.God destoryed Sodom for man being with man.LOOK in Genesis 19.
Yes.. I was told a lot growing up too. That fairy godmothers give three wishes, that Cinderella had to be home before midnight and the Hardy Boys always solved the crime. GROW THE (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) UP!
Hey Robin..Did you watch the PBS special on evolution, the debate? A Dow Chemist shattered 2 evolutionists with facts! There was no primortal slime and there is no evolution! It is mathematically and chemically impossible. I use to get Discover Magazine until they supposedly put the apparatus for the making of amino acids in an atricle. It was a lie. The real apparatus is more complex and the amino acids which amount to 2% of the products, had to be removed or would self destruct. Second, life is all left hand amino acids in proteins. So only 1% was viable to combine. But how things are made prevents this from happening. Thus, apparently, there is a God. Which one of the beliefs you choose is your choose.. Read the Book of John to see what it says about the Universe.
So by your logic,disproving one theory means the other one is true? (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) are you stupid.
Look, our nation has gone to hell in a hand basket. Who really, really, really, cares?
Pray is illegal in schools and public events, (in the name of JESUS) millions of unborn
babies have been slaughtered, pornography runs rapid over the net & they call it
Freedom, political and justice systems are totally corrupt and a joke. It’s illegal to
discipline (Spank) your kids or grandkids. Crime, drugs, break-ins, murders are out
of control in the good ole U.S.A.
Now, sense we all really, really care. We all are going to voice our educated and un-
educated opinions on gay marriage. Like it really matters, OH! we can call or write
our politicians, they will handle our problems and make everything right. We would
all be better off, trying to cut a big hog in the hiny.
Fact is, only the Lord Jesus can tell us right from wrong, anymore, because man has
lost his way.
Fact is David, that the US is one of the most religious countries in the world and also has one of the highest crime rates among civilized countries. The two are correlated. If you want to live a safer more peaceable life, the first thing that has to happen is to throw out the Bible from every aspect of public life.
YEP! ROBIN, THAT’S LIKE SAYIN, GUNS KILL PEOPLE, IN REALITY, PEOPLE
KILL PEOPLE, THEREFORE WE SHOULD THROW AWAY THE PEOPLE AND KEEP THE
GUNS. LOOK, MAN THE (HEART OF MAN) WILL BE JUDGED SOME DAY, NOT HOW
RELIGIOUS HE IS OR HOW MANY BIBLES HE OWES. IT BOILS DOWN ON HOW, YOU
AND I TREAT EACH OTHER AND EVERYBODY ELSE WE COME IN CONTACT WITH.
THEM JUDGEMENTAL, SELF-RIGHTEOUS, RELIGIOUS FOLKS MAKE ME SICKER THAT
SOME ONE THAT DON’T BELEIVE IN THE (LORD JESUS). BECAUSE THE ONE WHO
DON’T, I DON’T CARE, AND I’M NOT GOIN TO WASTE THEIR OR MY TIME TRYING TO IMPOSE MY WILL OR BELIEFS ON THEM.
This is a very hot and difficult topic to all Americans with strong opinions on each side. I suggest we have a National vote on the topic and abide with the results and move on to much more important items affecting our collective lives, no matter who you have chosen to live with. I am actually just a little tired of this topic and want to get on with life.
I think they did that in Germany, before they took all the Jewish property and shipped them to concentration camps. A vote… sure!!! LMAO
RULES, RULES, RULES, they are good thing and without them they are indispenable for life, in order that there is order. How could we even blog without rules of conduct and literacy? Homosexual relationships defy normal conduct and should be considered abnormal in a normal civil society. Laws are the rules of the self governing so that order exists without infringing on the rights and freedoms of others. Homosexuals seeking legal marraige should consider which member of the opposite sex they wish to marry. I am not a genius but I have learned that two opposite parts that will form a union is called a marriage or they become married, like a breakshoe and a rotor. They are not of the same kind and unigue union exists in every union. Change your brakes, have your rotor turned for a new surface. How can homosexuals have a union that serves the purpose for stabilty in society when they are of the same part? That defies normalicy. But the order in this society is defined by what we all call normal. Think right. Homosexuals want extra rights by marrying each other, not the same rights of heterosexuals.
I can’t thing of a single “extra” right that is being asked for.
Why don’t we just use a real world “litmus test” here about the idea of “gay” being OK.
Take 3 isolated tropical islands 1000 miles from anywhere or each other.
Island 1; 2 “gay” men
Island 2; 2 “gay” women
Island 3; 1 man and 1 woman “straight”
Come back in 100 years and what do you have?
Island 1 0% chance of human life
Island 2 0% chance of human life
Island 3 at LEAST a 50% chance of human life.
Realize that I hate NO ONE! Not one single person. I hate that anyone’s shameful behaviour endangers themselves and those around them. I hate that anyone’s illusion has overtaken their common sense. I feel sad for anyone that looks at a tree, or nature’s beauty and can’t see intelligent design. I look at a chair, car, computer, bicycle, book, light bulb, paper clip, nail, you name it and it did not just happen. Someone had to design it!
Today it seems people think “God’s Laws” are for ancient people that didn’t know any better… well those people are wrong. They are only common sense laws that keep people free! Free to live, love, and have a happy life.
If people would simply do what is right and just there would be no need for laws!!!
Alas, today most people won’t. When will secular people’s “superior intelligence” determine that it’s OK to murder? They have already thrown out adultery! What is next? The Ten Commandments were not written in order of severity. They are all one and the same level of “badness”.
Well maybe I do hate one person… A LIAR!!!
You are right. The gay community “lies” to promote their own agenda/lifestyle, attempting to normalize it. If it were so normal. there would not be conflict or controversy about it. There is zero possibilty men can conceive (ever) or women without male sperm. As I understand them, neither of these groups likes or is attracted to; the sexual behaviors hetrosexuals engage in. The entire universe runs on procreation in some way or another. If nature worked the way gays did, there would be no trees, flowers, animals, any human life at all in existence.
It speaks for itself…most of us do not care who they love or live with, but imposing acceptance and “normalcy” of this chosen activity is offensive and unwarranted. If they are so happy and convinced of their position, why force it on those who disagree and can see the logic?
When has “normal” ever been a precursor to civility. More than half the wars in history have been fought over religion, both sides believing theirs is more “normal” than the other. Just because somebody falls into a minority is no excuse to demean, degrade or treat them lessor. I assume you do not fall into the 10% or so of the population that is gay. Therefore, it doesn’t affect you or your ability to live your live. It hurts you not, so therefore you have no right to hurt those that are trying to live their lives as best they can based on who they are.
But no war that involved the USA has ever fought over religion and it because we use laws not war to keep the peace here.
I read all this right-wing conservative Bible belt crap here and I have to laugh.
I have travelled around quite a bit and noticed that things which have been settled (legally) a long time ago in other Western countries (such as the Scandinavian countries, The Netherlands and even Spain [despite fierce opposition from that medieval institution, The Vatican], are still heavily debated here in the US of A. (To name the most “controversial issues: gay marriage, public health care and abortion). What a shame, what a pathetic backwards country, this country of ours really is. As far as I can see the America is rapidly becoming the most backwards country in the Western world. Well guys and gals, we oughtta be so proud of this country, were folk are still living in the frigging early 1950s, for crying out loud. Ha, ha, ha, what a waste. I puke on this Third World country the USA. I really do!!!
Hey Freddy, I got a great idea (may be little backward) but, the
Government should split the states up. Yeah! The ole Bible Belt
states could be them ole conservative, Bible believing, Gun toting,
throat-cutting backward folks like me. Maybe they could be called,
the Southern States. Then, the rest of the states could be for
them educated liberals, you know them folks that don’t mine taking
(taking in God we Trust) off our currency, gay folks getting married
and living happily ever after, don’t mine killing a few more million
little unborn babies, You know Freddy educated stuff like that. All
yeah! best of all we’ll never have to debate over them silly issues,
like gay marriage, health-care, abortion, or religion. Freddy, that
would be a way for you educated liberals to do what-ever feels good
to ya, and Freddy you wouldn’t have to get sick a your little tummy
and puke. You would feel good all the time.
I’m so scared, me being all Southern and backward, things keep
goin, like there goin, and Freddy, me and you might be lookin at
another Civil War. That’s scary Freddy, and I’m goin to hide behind
a tree, right now.
They already have a system like what you propose in Pakistan, where the country has degenerated into two societies, the first being a semi-liberal (comparatively) urban population, and the second being a tribal bible thumping taliban controlled frontier. I suppose we could just let you have the south, but you’d be ethnically cleansing a large part of your population if that happens.
Robin, I’m talking about separation between them nice, loving, kind,
liberal folks, from us mean ole gun-toting, throat-cutting, Bible
believing folks like me. I used the Southern States as an example,
because for the most part we vote RED not BLUE.
I’m not talking about hurting anybody, I’m just sayin, if folks don’t
agree they can move up North or West. Folks, that don’t agree up North
or West can move South. I would be happy not to live next door to a
Liberal and I’m sure they would be happy not to live next door to me.
That’s all Robin, just another one of my (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) Southern hill-billy
ideas, that dont’t really amount to do-do.
Well, folks, to get back to the issue in hand, the veracity or rather the validity of the theory of evolution: the evidence for evolution as an explanatory notion is absolutely overwhelming, really devastatingly overwhelming. I’m so surprised that in this day and age people still appear to be doubtful. But alright, given the limited amount of time and space I have at my disposal, I’ll just treat you to four, in my opinion, very strong points to ponder.
1) Evidence from embryology. Already during Darwin’s lifetime researchers established the fact of a remarkable structural similarity in embryonic development between species of (apparently) distinctly diverse nature. Thus, we see that during the first weeks of material development, vertebrate species as diverse as mice, reptiles and humans do share a significant amount of structural likeness, pointing to a common ancestor from which the species as they are known presently, branched off very, very gradually.
2) Evidence from comparative anatomy, the study of anatomy-related interspecies differences and similarities. In line with findings in the realm embryology, investigators established remarkable similarities in anatomical make-up across the ‘ palette of vertebrates’. For instance, the wings of the bat, a mole’s paws, the whale’s pectoral fin and the human hand share a noteworthy (basic) anatomical similarity, featuring a so-called pentadactile (= five finger) structure. Of course, despite the obvious differences in function and size. Once again, this basic, structural similarity points to the high probability of a common evolutionary origin of the various species involved.
3) Evidence from the presence of “rudimentary organs”. These, of course, are “organs” in a state of functional obsolescence. For example the human coccyx and the appendix as well as the rudimentary remains of hind-limbs in whales and reptiles. Well, the presence of such pseudo-organs does most certainly not point in the direction of a special creation or a Special Creator, if you like. After all, why would “God” avail his creatures of such totally useless and obsolete organs? It’s as with an electronic engineer building a whole lot of completely useless and/ or broken parts into his or her machinery; a full waste of time and energy. So, Darwin already noticed that here we’ve got some fine instances of “radical developmental modification”, quite in line with the notion of selective, environmental adaptation. In about a 100 millennia, these remnants will, probably, appear to have gone totally extinct.
4) Evidence from paleontology. Here, of course, we’re dealing with Darwin’s (and post Darwinian researchers’) discovery of a whole load of diverse fossils, offering an opportunity to have a modest peek into the history of the development of species. Thus, the finding of the Archeopterix (during excavations in 1861, in Bavaria) enabled scientists to determine the (existence of ) a missing link between reptiles and birds, as this extinct animal appeared to have been equipped with a set of teeth and a vertebrate tail as well as feathers, wings and a wish-bone. The missing link between ape and man hasn’t exactly been found yet, but the fossil of an ape-like creature ( unearthed in 1983 in Germany), seems to come pretty close. And, I’m sure that the decisive link will be found well within our lifetime. (How many more years to go; 20, 30, 40, 50? So take heart and be brave. You deserve to hear the gret news!).
Well, my dears, you see the theory of evolution is not a doctrine or, as you keep contending, a “religion”, but a body of rational hypotheses steering a program of fundamental research into the origin and development of biological species on earth. Nothing more or less. That bible of yours, or your Koran, or whatever is just a bunch of myths, ancient history, pseudo-history, moral prescriptions and delightful fantasy. Nothing more, nothing less. If that’s enough for you and makes you thoroughly happy, fine, be my guest. After all, you can’t help yourselves. You’re completely obsessed with religion, with warped, delusional thinking in fact and that’s precisely what’s going to bring this pitiable country way down to the level of Babylon and ancient Rome, whose remains rest “peacefully” within the earth’s rumbling bowels. Well, uhm, that is if you conservatives get the upper hand (once again) in Congress and the WH. God, uhm, Darwin forbid.
Oh, finally, if you want to read a really very good book, look for Why evolution is true, by the eminent British scholar Jerry A. Coyne, just published
Evolution is debunked. Get over it.
So Dena, if it’s been so debunked, what theory has taken it’s place, presumably with more evidence.
Faith
I am a conservative lesbian. I don’t care about the issue of gay marriage at this point, as my concerns are the safety of this country and saving it, not only from outside terrorists, but also from the tyranny within our Federal Government. I care more about ridding corruption from those associated with our government. Most people mistakenly assume that all gays and lesbians are automatically liberal, just as they think all blacks are liberal. I am a strong believer in our Constitution which states that anything not appropriated to the Federal Government falls under the States. Many laws have been passed that are unconstitutional, but as for gay marriage, it’s up to the States to decide. As for whether homosexuality is a sin, yes it is, just as any sexual contact with anyone is. But I am a sinner. Divorce, except when adultery is involved, is a sin, yet the courts allow it. There are two laws here. The law of the land (legislatures and the courts) and there is God’s law.
You’re correct that secular law is different from “God’s” law (and of this there are several depending on which interpretation or religion you believe in). My only hope is that the latter never influences the former, otherwise we become the Taliban that you appear to be paranoid against.
Dena- what a breath of fresh air. You state your political beliefs, your personal prefrences and you acknowlege truth. I have to say I have only met one other like you. You have made your choices and are okay with them. You sure don’t sound like ol’Rodin. Please tell me… how does it make you feel to have someone like Rodin defending and pleading the gay case? I think it only hurts things
I wonder why my comment, posted on August 15, 2009, has been deleted. It didn’t contain abusive language or namecalling, neither did it disrespect other participants’ opinions or beliefs. Curiously, it was on for about a day.
Probably some computer glitch.
I hope so. I just wanted to state an opinion, but as this “glitch” put me off placing my comment here again I posted it on my blog.
Evolution debunked??? When, by whom, how??? Come on (wo)man, get real. Evolution has been thoroughly researched and validated over and over and over again during the past century. Debunked? That’s what I call wishful thinking. Read that book by Dr Jerry Coyne, and you’ll see what I mean. I really couldn’t believe my eyes when I read here on the net that millions of so-called evangelicals still think the earth with all its inhabitants was created in six days straight. Good gracious critters, you’d think we were still celebrating the damn 19th century. I’m really ashamed of America, believe me. Religion has been very rightfully called “The American Disease”. When I read stories about evangelical “pundits” being caught in gay bars and repenting their “sins” in public some time thereafter I have to laugh, but in fact it’s truly crying matter. In fact I think the Taliban and the greater part of Conservative Christian America are on a neat par in many, many respects (not the least of which appears to be their love of fancy hand guns). Yes, talk about irony!!!
Frederick – the problem with your argument is not it’s truthfulness or the completeness of your logic… the real problem is that you cannot convince people of faith that their beliefs, no matter how invalid, immoral, illogical, hateful, deceitful, duplicitous and fascist, are wrong with logic. Logic has no place in swaying the portion of the population with IQ’s less than intelligent. For that, you need to appeal to their emotions, with the first magnitude being personal safety. Most non-thinking individuals are scared of change and paranoid against those they perceive as “different”. For them the world becomes an “us” vs “them” argument and the only way to increase the numbers of “us” is to enforce a state religion.
Thank you Rodin, I fully agree with you here. Maybe I’ve been too emotional myself as well, unable to dodge around feelings of strong disappointment and outrage at what I see as a brainless majority, clinging for dear life to a status quo that will quite clearly put America way behind other countries in the Western World. For instance People complain their hearts out about President Obama’s mega spending, without realizing that the very same strategy has been and is still being followed by other governments (Japan, France, Germany, Belgium), whose economies are just beginning to pick up very nicely, lately. The health care hassles the president finds himself in these days have been the nightmare (more or less) of leaders in most of the countries mentioned above, but that was many, many decades ago. Besides, the total hysteria being acted out in our town-halls day by day, seems to be really uniquely American. In practically every civilized, democratic country around the globe social health care insurance has been arranged quite satisfactorily a long time already. But we here in America, “Gods own country”, as the conservatives call it, are still biting each other’s heads off and slap our president in the face over something that should have been made a generally affordable facility without even batting an eye.
Indeed, as you say, this is a country where sheer paranoia and mass hysteria are rampant as nowhere else. In the well-known musical “Evita”, the protagonist sings: Don’t cry for me, Argentina. Well, I can tell you, I’m crying for the US of A, not because of its government, but because of the deep-rooted mentality of incredible gullibility and cheap sensationalism dominating American folk culture. And, particularly right-wing mass media representatives, such as Fox News and Newsmax are thriving nicely on this.
Frederick,
You raise another point on which we agree on 100%. I’ve lived in countries with different medical coverages and I can honestly say the current debate is ridiculous in its hostility and blind rhetoric. We’ve got sub-intelligent morons going to town meetings screaming that the president is Hitler, and they don’t even understand health care economics currently in America, much less in Canada, Switzerland, Australia, the UK, France etc. The opportunity for reasoned debate is impossible with the vast majority of the population as they are too easily swayed by the likes of Lou Dobbs’ish arguments and Fox news pundits that only provide a nub of an argument mixed with negative emotional invective.
A mathematician just debunked some of the testimony from the private insurers before congress. They stated that they rescind coverage on less than 1% of their policy holders, erroneously leading most to believe that they would probably fall into the 99% that would be covered if something “bad” were to happen. However, based on conditional probability, the chance that an insurance company would deny you coverage under a catastrophic event, ie rare cancer with high cost drugs needed, is closer to 50% or greater. They essentially misled the American public.
No country with universal medical coverage is even remotely thinking about getting rid of it. And every country constantly tweaks their systems to try and make them more efficient, (including the US). We’ve taken the current effort at tweaking (albeit a large change) and we’ve ratcheted up the rhetoric to screaming levels instead of just trying to debate the possible changes that could be made. (and there are so many permutations and combinations, that we need to have intelligent debate). The status quo is NEVER a place you want to stay in too long.
This is so old and tired. If someone disagrees with you they hate you? Grow up already. I don’t hate you, I don’t care about you enough to hate you. What you do is disgusting, but FREEDOM is more important than all these things even life. So if you want to queer off with your buddy I say go for it! Is someone arresting you for it? No, thought not. Your problem is you can’t be honest. You want equal treatment under the law? How about a civil union? look at the data almost 3/4 of the people against gay marriage are fine with a civil union giving you the same legal status. But thats not what you want, you want the rest of us to applaud and accept your behavior, which, face it, is not normal to the VAST majority of people in the world. We’re not gonna say its OK and normal. Do you think we care if you approve of our normal relationships? We don’t, and don’t flatter yourselves by thinking we care that much about you to hate you. If you were smart, ha ha, yea right. You would quit trying to change the definition of words that have held their meaning for thousands of years by trying to make everyone else the boogeyman. Be honest, you might not get everything you want, but it will be alot easier, stop trying to change the definition of the word “Marriage” call it something else and you’ll get it no problem. ( union, partnership etc…) If not, stop crying about it, if California ( the most liberal state in the union) wouldn’t go for it, how do you think it will play out elsewhere? Such a huge waste of time, money, and energy.
Enuff – you are pretty close to where the majority of gays want to be as well. Just simple equality regardless of how it is structured or what it is called. I think most everyone could live with what you propose, but I’d prefer if you didn’t use words like “disgusting” when talking about alternate lifestyles. It quickly leads to hatred and a thousand other negative emotions. And yes, people in certain states, have been arrested for so-called queering off. In Texas, police broke into a home erroneously, discovered two men together and arrested them, in their own bedroom!!
Rodin,
Who made you the one to decide what is __________- fill in the blank. You post here as if you are the final word on any given subject that has been discussed. The majority of this country is faith based. If that bugs you so much maybe you should look for another country that is not so faith based. IF that is not your wish then you need to find a way to live in a faith based community/country.
You sit here and tell someone not to say “disgusting” because it brings out hate yet you hypocritically state “the real problem is that you cannot convince people of faith that their beliefs, no matter how invalid, immoral, illogical, hateful, deceitful, duplicitous and fascist,” in your own post. Who is showing hate?
It appears to me that you are the one “stuck” on your beliefs with no tolerance for any other beliefs than your own. Not very democratic of you.
Deb, I have perfect tolerance for “beliefs” You can believe whatever damn fool nonsense you want. You can think the earth is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, or that there is a supernatural creature that looks after you when you’re dead or that you’ll get 40 virgins to screw for eternity….. Believe whatever you want… I don’t care…. What I have a problem with is your ACTIONS. How you treat your neighbor, how you respect them and allow them to live their life without hurting them. And apparently you think it’s just fine to treat those you don’t like as second class citizens.
As for the link:
Texas Sodomy Arrest Opens Legal Battle for Gay Activists
Washington Post, November 29, 1998
1150 15th Street NW, Washington, DC 20071
Online Mailer: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/edit/letters/letterform.htm
By Paul Duggan, Washington Post Staff Writer
HOUSTON — Rarely does a police officer witness violations of Section 21.06 of the Texas criminal code, the section entitled “Homosexual conduct.” And almost never is an arrest made under the 119-year-old statute. So what happened recently to John Lawrence and Tyrone Garner, in the supposed privacy of Lawrence’s bedroom, was highly unusual.
The two men were having sex when a Harris County sheriff’s deputy walked into the apartment on another matter, saw what they were doing and hauled them off to jail.
“In all candor, I don’t believe we’ve ever made an arrest before under those circumstances,” said Capt. Don McWilliams, a sheriff’s spokesman. But the law is the law, he said. “We can’t give our deputies a list of statutes we think they should enforce and a list of statutes we want them to ignore.”
The handcuffing of Lawrence and Garner that night did more than just satisfy the deputy’s obligation to enforce the law. It opened a new legal front in a long campaign by gay activists across the country to do away with such statutes, which they contend are unconstitutional.
Georgia’s highest court issued a ruling Monday that struck down that state’s law against consensual sodomy, but statutes prohibiting the practice remain on the books in Puerto Rico and 19 states, including Maryland and Virginia. Five of the states, including Texas, limit the ban to same-sex couples. Now lawyers have seized on the Houston case as a vehicle to again contest the legitimacy of the Texas statute, which has survived three legal challenges since the early 1980s.
Among similar court challenges in four other states and in Puerto Rico, four are lawsuits, including one in Maryland — where a judge ruled last month that homosexual oral sex is not illegal but refused to declare the sodomy statute unconstitutional. Only two cases, in Minnesota and now Texas, stem from criminal charges. And as gay activists see it, no case more vividly illustrates the threat such laws pose to privacy than the Sept. 17 arrests of Lawrence and Garner.
Answering what turned out to be a bogus report of a man behaving erratically with a gun, Deputy Joseph Quinn arrived at an apartment building east of Houston about 10:30 p.m. and met Roger Nance, 41, who had phoned in the complaint, authorities said.
Nance directed Quinn to apartment No. 833, Lawrence’s apartment. The deputy entered through the unlocked door with his weapon drawn. After finding no one with a gun, Quinn later wrote in his report, he “observed [Lawrence] engaged in deviate sexual conduct, namely, anal sex, with another man.” Lawrence, 55, and Garner, 31, spent the rest of the night behind bars before each was let out on $200 bail.
Nance’s false report, for which he served 15 days in jail, stemmed from “a personality dispute” between him and the two men, the sheriff’s department said.
Lawrence and Garner pleaded no contest earlier this month to violating the anti-sodomy statute and were fined $125 each by a justice of the peace. Now the stage is set for what lawyers predict will be a long appeals process, one they hope will end with the state’s highest criminal appeals court invalidating the law as an infringement on privacy as protected by Texas Constitution.
The arrests in some ways delighted gay activists. They said the case not only provides a long-awaited legal platform to challenge the Texas law, but also has a public-awareness benefit, offering facts that underscore their warnings about privacy. Here, they contend, was an instance of government authority literally reaching under a person’s blankets.
“You can’t get more private than a bedroom,” said Suzanne B. Goldberg, a lawyer with the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, which is representing the men.
In the other criminal case resulting in a legal challenge, a Minnesota bartender was arrested for engaging in oral sex with a woman in the bar after closing time. Minnesota’s law, which applies to all couples, includes oral sex in the definition of sodomy, as does the Texas law. But in Minnesota, police witnessed the offense after the fact, while viewing a videotape from the bar’s security camera during an unrelated investigation.
The Texas case “should really show the public how invasive these laws can be,” said Michael Adams, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, which is handling the Minnesota appeal. “It shows that the police really do intrude into the home. And the fact that people have to live in fear of that is terrible.”
Goldberg said Lawrence, who works in medical technology, and Garner, a shipping clerk, did not want to be interviewed. McWilliams said Quinn also has declined to comment on the arrests.
As they have in other states, conservative groups voiced support for the Texas law on moral grounds.
Cathie Adams, president of the Eagle Forum’s Texas chapter, said the law banning same-sex sodomy helps maintain a distinction between traditional couples and those “who practice homosexuality,” which she called “unnatural and unhealthy.”
In addition to citing privacy concerns, activists have complained that such laws often are used as a pretext for discriminating against homosexuals in employment, child custody and other matters.
In one earlier, unsuccessful challenge to the Texas law, for example, an openly lesbian job applicant sued the Dallas Police Department for refusing to hire her. The department said it could not employ her because it presumed she was routinely violating the law in private, by the nature of her homosexuality. The city now has an ordinance barring job discrimination based on sexual orientation.
Wyatt Roberts, chairman of the American Family Association of Texas, said he favors retaining the Texas statute so it can be used as it was in Dallas.
Homosexuality “speaks for a person’s character,” Roberts said, and ought to be a legal basis for denying homosexuals child custody and certain jobs. “I think most people in Texas respect a person’s right to privacy,” he said, “while at the same time they think homosexuality should be discouraged.”
In an earlier challenge to the now-defunct Georgia law, which banned sodomy by all couples, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the statute in 1986 in a case that focused on the privacy issue. The court said the U.S. Constitution “does not confer a fundamental right upon homosexuals to engage in sodomy.”
But the ruling noted that state courts may strike down such laws if they are found to violate privacy protections that are guaranteed or implicit in state constitutions.
That was the basis for the Georgia Supreme Court’s ruling this week, one that gay activists hope will be repeated in the other state courts. In addition to the cases in Texas, Minnesota, Maryland and Puerto Rico, challenges are pending in state courts in Arkansas and Louisiana.
Citing the U.S. Constitution’s equal-protection clause, activists said they also may eventually begin federal court challenges to the Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri anti-sodomy laws, which apply to same- sex couples but not heterosexuals.
In a federal lawsuit challenging the Texas law on privacy grounds in the early 1980s, a gay man prevailed in U.S. District Court in Dallas. But a federal appeals court reversed the ruling and upheld the statute in 1985, and a year later the U.S. Supreme Court decided the Georgia case.
Two state court challenges to the law, including the case involving the Dallas police force, were dismissed in 1994 by the Texas Supreme Court, which ruled that the legitimacy of a criminal statute in Texas cannot be contested through a lawsuit, that the challenge must arise from a criminal case.
Activists have waited four years for such a case. Now they have it.
Sodomy Laws
Five states prohibit consensual sodomy among same-sex couples only; 14 states plus Puerto Rico prohibit consensual sodomy among all couples.
States with laws prohibiting consentual sodomy among all couples: Virginia, Maryland*, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Minnesota*, Louisiana*, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida South Carolina, North Carolina, Massachusetts, Michigan, Puerto Rico*
States with laws prohibiting consensual sodomy among same-sex couples only: Oklahoma, Texas*, Kansas, Arkansas*, Missouri
* States facing legal challenge.
NOTES: In some jurisdictions, oral sex is included in the definition of sodomy. In the most recently decided case, the Georgia Supreme Court struck down Georgia’s anti-sodomy statute on Nov. 23, ruling that it violated privacy rights guaranteed by the state constitution.
SOURCE: The Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, and the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Gay and Lesbian Task Force of the American Civil Liberties Union
“In Texas, police broke into a home erroneously, discovered two men together and arrested them, in their own bedroom!!”
Can you please provide a link to prove?
Are you satisfied. This type of persecution is what you are espousing.
I espouse nothing.
Just because I believe marriage is a spiritual and religious event with thousands of years of history to support it, does not mean that I treat people the way you assume I do or the way you treat people here.
My neighbors know they can come to me when they need ANYTHING. They know that if there is anything, time, talent or money they need from me that I will be there for them.
You know nothing about me or how I treat people. Yet you judge me based on no knowledge just, because I am a christian.
You assume a lot and that says a lot about you.
The Texas story is sad and should have never taken place. Thank you for the link. Maybe instead of attacking people who disagree with you here… you could better put your time to use in getting these laws changed.
Ah, Enuff Already, so it’s merely a matter of words. If I say, well folks, I’ve been civilly united with my man a couple of weeks ago, all the conservative thumbs imaginable will be raised up to high heavens. But the moment I call my liaison a “marriage”, they’ll raise hell or give me the cold shoulder, so to speak? What a joke. Well, I’ll tell you, I don’t give a (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) what you want to call it. So long as you conservatives (and the authorities, of course) leave me and my man in peace and let us enjoy the very same civil rights you and your birdie so arrogantly claim. Understood???
Not a problem with me. You can have all the civil rights you want. Hell it wouldn’t take but a few hours for congress to write up a bill that gives Civil Unions all the same “rights” legally afforded to marriage. Write to congress. Conservative constituents can not change the law for you.
The point you are not getting is that most conservatives know that marriage is a sacrament and religious not “legal”. That is where the problem lies. Government didn’t get involved until they figured out they could make money off of marriage. No one has to change anything if the government would just grant the same legal standing to civil unions.
Either way there is still POAs, Wills, Medical POAs, joint accounts with rights of survivorship, or Payable on death for that matter. They only thing you can not work around right now is filling married / jointly with the IRS. A visit to Legal Zoom can take care of all of the above, minus the IRS of course.
My wife and I are friends with a few gays and none of them are ‘disgusting’ people. I would like for the so-called marriage issue be handled by each state – further, I’d like to see gays have the right to be ‘married’ under a civil union. The term ‘marriage’ should be applicable to a man and a woman and the term ‘civil union’ should be applicable to those of the same sex. I don’t see where it is any of my business nor do I see how it would affect our lives in any way.
And, NO, neither my wife nor I are ‘liberal loons’ – in fact, neither of us voted for that radical socialist that currently occupies the White House-!
And, once again KerMudJun, the one that occupies the White House presently, as you call him, is neither radical, nor a socialist. Everywhere around I hear conservatives screaming that President is a socialist, whereas probably 99% of those screamers don’t have the slightest clue what real socialism is all about. If we take the whole issue about health care reform, for instance: what the president proposes (the so-called public option) has already been instigated in a whole host of civilized Western countries (Belgium France, Germany, The Netherlands and all of the Scandinavian countries) decades ago. None of these countries is being led by a “socialist” government. Yes, there are social democratic tendencies evident in some of these countries, but that is not the least similar to the classic notion of socialism. In a genuinely socialist state no discussion whatsoever is even possible about options proposed by the central body of power (the president or the Great Leader, if you want, and his comrades). What Obama does, is a far, far, far cry from and doesn’t even resemble the policies displayed in truly radical socialist countries. Chavez, Kim-Jung-Il and Castro rule solely by decree. Obama cannot and will not do that, ever. I wish I could just hammer that into your heads, sometimes. This whole discussion about the president’s alleged socialist mentality, nicely illustrates the extremely tendentious and dishonest nature of the (mostly conservative) public media (such as Fox News and Newsmax). Lame allegations, outright paranoid slander and totally brainless parroting seem to be the trade mark of (most of the) media networks’ information circus. One moment the president is called a socialist, then all of a sudden he’s transformed into a Nazi. Good heavens people, grow up, read up on your stuff properly, begin to educate yourself on the tenets of genuine socialism and stop uttering purely stupid nonsense about political systems (i.e. socialism or “Hitlerism”) you don’t even seem to remotely understand.
I may not agree with you that Obama is not a socialist as I firmly believe and he continually proves that he is, as I believe that all in the Democrat party are socialist, Communists and/or Fascists (not that any of that is bad it is just not how I believe). I will however agree his is not Hitler nor Stalin or any other of the extreme left socialist country leaders of history or current day. But you really should go re-read those governmental styles you’re talking about.
oh by the way here is a link to Wiki on socialism and it fits the Democrats perfectly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism Socialism is the opposite of capitalism NOT Democracy.
Ridh
I think it is you who has the need to reread history as it is you who are confused. wikipedia is not a good source of information as any idiot can give input there and I’m not going there as there are far more reliable sources than this. We just simply are not becoming a socialist nation that is the mantra of the conservatives in the country today to preserve a totally corrupted capitalist system that we have become in this country today, capitalism without rules and regulation creates what some economist refer to as a wild west economy where only the fastest gun can survive,(the richest) capitalism with fair and good regulation works great but starting with the Reagan administration who was opposed to this and good government changed that and planted the seeds that has grown into the economic mess we find our selves in today, the harvest of his seeds of destruction that Obama wants to correct but not sure he has the power to do so and if he does not we will have hell to pay yet. People like you who misunderstand this are a part of the problem we have today.
Smilee,
Go back under your rock as you are the biggest issue as to what is wrong with the world today. You can’t on normal occasions give nor cite any references to your assinine beliefs because your full of hate. Go bother someone else with you childish mentalities that attacking someone is a good thing. Oh your a good democrat alright, when you don’t get your way you whine and complain like a little girl but when your getting your way you attack anyone who disagrees with you not with intelligence because that would be asking too much and something your so obviously in short supply of but with snide remarks ,rhetoric and plain old name calling.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/10/08/will-msm-report-obama-membership-socialist-new-party
It’s not about Socialism with Obama, it’s about GOVERNMENT control over
it’s people, banks, automotive industry, unions, education, energy, health-care, agriculture, 2nd amendment rights, donations, religion, did I leave out anything?
The Government said we will have a 9 trillion dollar deficit over the
next 10 years. Who do you think is going to pay for all this shit? The
tooth fairy? And man, you call us, Gun toting, Bible believing, mean ole conservatives DUMB? Man, you liberals are ate plum-up with the dumb-ass.
Freddy, by the time inflation sets in real good, Obama taxes everything
(excess tax) on what we see, smell, drink and eat, you want have the
money to buy a used condom. That’s a FACT. Somebody has to pay, it’s a
no-brainer, when you spend money, especially money you don’t have, somebody has to pay, YOU GET IT?
Oh Shoot!!! I really had to laugh about the conservatives calling Mr. Obama a socialist. Friend, have you not looked at his ratings lately? Even the people that voted for him are calling him that and are telling blogs they are so ashamed that they voted for him. Don’t blame all that crap on the conservatives. :>)
The time is short. When the rain finally came in Noah’s day and his small family was on the boat, it is written ‘The Lord closed the door’. Right now you can rant, curse, mock and disbelieve. The day is coming when your choice will become irreversible. God Himself can’t help you then. For those of us who have been to hell and back, and got a second chance, we understand that it is not about a political system, nor about whether people think a snail and a whale had a common ancestor, but it is about where you will spend eternity.
Hey Vchristian… I’m not too worried about god or what she’ll do. I’m much more worried about you and your kin. All you’ve done is spew hate fueled invective instead of attempting to live with your neighbors in peace, harmony and respect.
Did you all see that the ELCA synod voted to allow gays to be pastors in their Lutheran churches yesterday in Minneapolis. It is the biggest church in the country to do so. Some Christians do not sit in judgment of their gay brothers and sisters and leave to God to judge them. Tolerance = Love = Christianity
Most Christians don’t judge gay people. It’s between them and God. I think tolerance is needed on both sides of the debate about marriage. Marriage is a sacrament therefore if the gay community wants “rights” then they should petition the government to add those rights to Civil Unions.
Marriage in this country is a civil union for all that do not have it blessed in a religious ceremony but still under the law it is a civil union governed by civil law and not church law as that is unconstitutional under our constitution. The church can do as they like the government cannot and has to treat all people the same under out constitution,. Not sure that is not christian as well as the commandment says “Love thy Lord thy God and thy Neighbor as yourself” Do Christians really treat the gay person as they would want to be treated themselves, think about it.
Yes I do.
Growing up my favorite cousin was gay. He was a wonderful person who just happened to be attracted to men. No big deal. He died from aids. It was absolutely horrible.
My brother is homosexual as well. He was married then when his wife passed away be began living his life as a homosexual. Again no big deal. It’s between him and God. I love him just the same as I did before I knew.
What you don’t get is most Christians don’t care what a person’s sexual preferences are but they do care about the sacrament of marriage.
If all “marriages” in the US are civil unions then why don’t people pressing for these changes just ask for a CIVIL UNION to have the same legal rites.
Again… there is still POAs, Wills, Medical POAs, joint accounts with rights of survivorship, or Payable on death for that matter. They only thing you can not work around right now is filling married / jointly with the IRS. Maybe you should work on changing the tax code.
Well Rich, in my opinion your comment provokes the impression that you haven’t read the Wikipedia entry about socialism very, very closely. If you (re)read the first line really carefully you’ll see that the core issue here concerns the (STRUCURAL) state or collective workers’ ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. In the Wikipedia entry the word STRUCTURAL has been erroneously omitted, because imo this is a crucial characteristic of genuinely socialist administrations. In Cuba, N-Korea, China and (up to a certain point) Venezuela, authentically free, profit based enterprise is ABSOLUTELY out of the question, PERMANENTLY. (So, consequently, you won’t hear anything about fancy bonuses for CEO’s in those countries. In the USA under Obama, fat bonuses are still being cashed freely. Well, talk about socialism under the current administration!!!).
Obama has never advocated the state’s full and permanent control of ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. He has repeatedly made it very, very clear that he effectively doesn’t and doesn’t even want to “own” any company, bank or whatever commercial corporation. The whole bail-out strategy was merely meant as a means to get the economy back on its feet and let it run its own course, so to speak, as quickly as possible. In a whole of host of countries (from Japan to Germany) exactly the same policy has been followed, without anybody in those states accusing their government of slipping into a socialist style of ruling.
Finally, there’s the second part of the Wikipedia definition pointing to a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation.
Now, the problem here amounts to the notion that most religions, Christianity and Buddhism in particular, ascribe to this very same type of social anthropology i.e. “all (wo)men are equal before God”. Furthermore, this conception constitutes one of the cornerstones, if not THE CORNESTONE of democracy. See the “Equality under the Constitution” article to be found on Answers.com (http://www.answers.com/topic/equality-under-the-constitution).
So, to recapitulate, I really don’t see anything clearly socialistic, characterizing the Obama administration. What I see is a president struggling (yes, really fighting) to find 1) a workable Balance of Power between the Federal state (as the Central Ruling Authority and the realm of Corporate Entrepreneurs and 2) a viable and constitutionally correct control of citizens’ freedom of conduct. (An instance of the latter is the president’s public option proposal related to the health care reform bill, presently so heavily debated). And that seems to be the bottleneck in this whole absurd discussion about the president’s alleged socialist mentality. Many conservatives accuse him of vying for maximum control (more or less à la Hugo Chavez), whereas most liberals see a very ambitious (sometimes perhaps overambitious) leader who’s always quite ready to listen to his critics and openly discuss the relevant options dictated by his political (as well as personal) insights. I put myself squarely within the latter league.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/10/08/will-msm-report-obama-membership-socialist-new-party
n June sources released information that during his campaign for the State Senate in Illinois, Barack Obama was endorsed by an organization known as the Chicago “New Party”. The ‘New Party’ was a political party established by the Democratic Socialists of America (the DSA) to push forth the socialist principles of the DSA by focusing on winnable elections at a local level and spreading the Socialist movement upwards. The admittedly Socialist Organization experienced a moderate rise in numbers between 1995 and 1999. By 1999, however, the Socialist ‘New Party’ was essentially defunct after losing a supreme court challenge that ruled the organizations “fusion” reform platform as unconstitutional.
After allegations surfaced in early summer over the ‘New Party’s’ endorsement of Obama, the Obama campaign along with the remnants of the New Party and Democratic Socialists of America claimed that Obama was never a member of either organization. The DSA and ‘New Party’ then systematically attempted to cover up any ties between Obama and the Socialist Organizations. However, it now appears that Barack Obama was indeed a certified and acknowledged member of the DSA’s New Party.
On Tuesday, I discovered a web page that had been scrubbed from the New Party’s website. The web page which was published in October 1996, was an internet newsletter update on that years congressional races. Although the web page was deleted from the New Party’s website, the non-profit Internet Archive Organization had archived the page.
From the October 1996 Update of the DSA ‘New Party’:
“New Party members are busy knocking on doors, hammering down lawn signs, and phoning voters to support NP candidates this fall. Here are some of our key races…
Illinois: Three NP-members won Democratic primaries last Spring and face off against Republican opponents on election day: Danny Davis (U.S. House), Barack Obama (State Senate) and Patricia Martin (Cook County Judiciary).”
You can find the above quote from the scubbed New Party web page at this Internet Archive Organization link. More confirmation of Obama’s membership in the New Party can be found at an article in the November 1996 Progressive Populist magazine:
New Party members and supported candidates won 16 of 23 races, including an at-large race for the Little Rock, Ark., City Council, a seat on the county board for Little Rock and the school board for Prince George’s County, Md. Chicago is sending the first New Party member to Congress, as Danny Davis, who ran as a Democrat, won an overwhelming 85% victory. New Party member Barack Obama was uncontested for a State Senate seat from Chicago.
The Democratic Socialist Party of America also reported on Obama’s New Party membership in its July/August 1996 edition:
The Chicago New Party is increasely becoming a viable political organization that can make a different in Chicago politics. It is crucial for a political organization to have a solid infrastructure and visible results in its political program. The New Party has continued to solidify this base.
First, in relation to its infrastructure, the NP’s membership has increased since January ’95 from 225 to 440. National membership has increased from 5700 in December ’95 to 7000. Currently the NP’s fiscal balance is $7,000 and receives an average of $450/month is sustainer donations.
Secondly, the NP’s ’96 Political Program has been enormously successful with 3 of 4 endorsed candidates winning electoral primaries. All four candidates attended the NP membership meeting on April 11th to express their gratitude. Danny Davis, winner in the 7th Congressional District, invited NPers to join his Campaign Steering Committee. Patricia Martin, who won the race for Judge in 7th Subcircuit Court, explained that due to the NP she was able to network and get experienced advice from progressives like Davis. Barack Obama, victor in the 13th State Senate District, encouraged NPers to join in his task forces on Voter Education and Voter Registration. The lone loser was Willie Delgado, in the 3rd Illinois House District. Although Delgado received 45% of the vote, he lost by only 800 votes. Delgado commented that it was due to the NP volunteers that he carried the 32nd Ward. Delgado emphasized that he will remain a visible community activist in Humbolt Park. He will conduct four Immigration workshops and encouraged NP activists to get involved.
Kudos to Politically Drunk On Power for digging up this information about Obama’s membership in the socialist New Party. The question now is if the MSM will deem his party membership important enough to report on. They sure didn’t hesitate to report on Todd Palin’s membership in the Alaska Independence Party.
UPDATE: Yet more proof of Obama’s close involvement in the socialist New Party from NewsBusters’ Hermano who provided this link to the Chicago Democratic Socialists of American September-October 1995 New Ground 42 edition:
About 50 activists attended the Chicago New Party membership meeting in July. The purpose of the meeting was to update members on local activities and to hear appeals for NP support from four potential political candidates. The NP is being very active in organization building and politics. There are 300 members in Chicago. In order to build an organizational and financial base the NP is sponsoring house parties. Locally it has been successful both fiscally and in building a grassroots base. Nationwide it has resulted in 1000 people committed to monthly contributions. The NP’s political strategy is to support progressive candidates in elections only if they have a concrete chance to “win”. This has resulted in a winning ratio of 77 of 110 elections. Candidates must be approved via a NP political committee. Once approved, candidates must sign a contract with the NP. The contract mandates that they must have a visible and active relationship with the NP.
The political entourage included Alderman Michael Chandler, William Delgado, chief of staff for State Rep Miguel del Valle, and spokespersons for State Sen. Alice Palmer, Sonya Sanchez, chief of staff for State Sen. Jesse Garcia, who is running for State Rep in Garcia’s District; and Barack Obama, chief of staff for State Sen. Alice Palmer. Obama is running for Palmer’s vacant seat.
So Obama signed a contract with the New Party? Verrrry interesting.
Very long and indeed very interesting piece, Jon. But one crucial question stil remains to be answered: what precisely is the New Party or the Democratic Socialist Party’s political agenda? What is it exactly they want for our country and how do they want to accomplish it all concretely? And, of course, does Barack Obama still endorse the gist of their political program? So, in 1996 or thereabout Obama is supposed to have signed a contract with the New Party. And, what can be said about its terms, its factual content? Please enlighten us…..
OK, Gay marriage:
I’ve read several of the comments and replies on the subject and it just confirms my atheism. Religion by it’s very nature is rigid and narrow minded. Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone and everything was in nice, neat and simple packages. Clean and tidy, no complications. The biological world doesn’t work that way. It’s complicated.
Gay people want their unions because of the security you have legally in marriage. Marriage has been a privilege for far too long. The problem with religious straight people is they understand homosexuality as a sin. It is a normal part of the biological world. And yes, gay couples love one another.
I’m truly frightened about the future as we all seem to be these days. For me, it is because with all the scientific advances human beings have made. WE are falling back into the dark ages.
The question should be framed as such `Should we allow rights to a group of people based on an immoral behavior? If yes, then why not pedophiles? Why not murderers? Thieves? This thinking, taken to NMth degree, leads to anarchy. If this is your logic, then so be it. After all, what is law? Legislative morality. Do not steal. Do not kill. Etc. Etc.
Well Philip… I’m so glad that I’ve got someone as learned and wise as you to tell me what is “immoral” Personally I don’t give a rat’s ass what you consider immoral… I consider you to be an immoral person because you would impose a “morality” on me… I call that fascism. And murder is not just morality… how dare you compare homosexuality with crimes that hurt others. You are a very sick individual.
By reason of the force of our history to do as we can/must do whereever possible, I have no problem whatever with your sexual orientation or permissive attitudes toward such habits/births/illnesses (or whatever the hell those causes really are).
That said, I deeply resent the attempts by any one or group of persons of your orientation, to influence the young of my extended family. So, do whatever the hell you choose, but count on me to do as I must to prevent any attempts to so influence my people. If you want to have sex, oral, anal or otherwise, with another person of your gender, get to it, but stay the hell away from me and the impressionable youth of this American family.
One more though; at my age (77), I have seen what happens to no telling how many of you would-be couples; look around yourself, how many of those you know are happy when the sex drive ends?? It ain’t pretty, especially your loneliness.
Paul
Well Paul, maybe you’re really too old indeed to understand that open affirmation of one’s sexual preference(s) does in no way implicate exhibitionistic behavior. Heavy petting, deep kissing and outright sexual intercourse in public places would be unbecoming to any couple or group of citizens, the world over. So, I really don’t see what your warning has to do with being gay,bi or of whatever orientation possible. All we gays are asking these days (rhymes beautifully, doesn’t it?) is an acknowledgement of our absolutely unalienable civil rights, including the right to hold hands, smile at each other affectionately and, yes, marry the person we love. And Paul, loneliness is most certainly not a prerogative of us gays. Step into a retirement home or a nursing home and you’ll quickly see what I mean. Finally Paul, no gay person of my generation (the just over thirties) will probably even notice you. You’re simply too old for us. And your grandchildren are much too young. No, not all gays are pedophiles, Paul. But I gather that you’ve figured that out for yourself a long time ago already…..
Sorry folks, I meant to say inalienable
First of all, the Bible does teach we are to love the sinner, NOT the sin. What Rodin does is no worse than adultery, murder, stealing, lying, etc. Sin is sin is sin in God’s eyes. However, I do have one comment for Rodin. I recently saw pictures from a Gay Pride march in California. There was a man who was totally nude (that’s right his neely wacker was hanging out), there were woman whose breasts were exposed and children on the side of the road watching. Since I was a victim of sexual abuse as a child, I have taught a healing class for the better part of sixteen years and can tell you exposing yourself to a child is a form of child abuse and is unacceptable. Don’t know where you got your statistics on military men abusing their children, but abuse on children comes in all walks of life and in all classes from the poor to the very rich. It has no boundaries nor does it have a select group. I have had judges daughters, police officer’s daughter, regular middle class, lower class, upper crust – you name it. I have even had pastors daughter. You want us to respect your group; however, your public behavior doesn’t warrant respect. Any other adult who would parade in front of child in that manner would have been arrested and thrown in jail. It is not acceptable. The Bible is real clear:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New International Version)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
We are not judging you, the God who created ths world makes it very clear with His two edge sword – His Word! If you are sexually immoral, an adulterer,drunkard, homosexual etc. you will not inherit the kingom of God unless you repent and turn from your behavior. God does love you and so do I, but God is a just God and will not be mocked.
How dare you insult me you (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) self-righteous little maggot. I don’t assume that all christo-fascists wear pancake makeup like TammyFaye, why would you assume that ALL gays like to parade naked. We all have our own individual sense of fashion!! And you’re totally wrong about adult nakedness necessarily promoting or exacerbating child abuse. I’ve seen many children of “nudist” families that are all well adjusted and caring members of society. How DARE you bring child abuse into this argument. The only perversions in this society come from the hate filled churches which propagate the notion that some individuals are not as worthy as others. You are a strange little hater and will use any argument to continue hating gays regardless of it’s logic or lack thereof. Perhaps you should be going back to school and listening to the President extol the virtues of hard study.
hah,your demons got stirred up with that one did’nt they?i am using your demonically inspired words as a teaching tool in a home bible study to witness to the lost,thanks for the revealing look into a very lost soul!
I am very surprised at Dick Chebey or any Christian or would be Christian supporting gays in any fashion. By this they are condemning them to HELL per the Bible. God does not condone gays or gay rights in any way. If people would really read their Bible they would see this. They are an abomination to God and will be punished. In the Old Testament men laying with men is condemned. In the New Testament 1Cor. 6:9-ff it is very clear that gays (homosexuals) will not go to Heaven. Then there is only one other choice…HELL! I will not ignore them but I will try to make them see that they have chosen a lifestyle that is totally against the word of God. They are not born gay…God would not condemn a person to HELL. I pray that they will see the errs of their ways and trun to God for forgiveness.
Yes and if I come up with a religion that says that all buck toothed inbreds are going to hell, I’d have to corral half of Appalachia. And Texas must be running closely behind…. Best to leave your ill conceived notions of God an Hell for sunday school and try to live in the real world the rest of the time.
ah,the ”logic” of the lost!very revealing actually,keep it up!
Rodin, you are right. I AM a hater. I hate all perversity touted as diversity as if I were of such a low intelligence that I can’t tell the difference. You are wrong, however, in assuming that means I hate the people. I don’t, and because I don’t I will do all I can to keep them from making such a huge mistake with their lives. I teach my 4 year old how to behave and he acts just the same as you do when he doesn’t get what he wants. (Whining, crying, and “holding his breath ’til he turns blue”. When that doesn’t work he starts with the name calling and hatred, just as the gays do now.) Yet, somehow I would be remiss if I allowed just any desire that crosses his head to become reality.
You mention Christianicide as if that were a joke. It shows huge hatred towards the people and not their ideals, and that is realls sad, immature behavior.
Even societies that allowed/accepted gay lifestyles (such as ancient Rome) NEVER allowed gays to marry. Marriage was for procreation and the raising of children, not for the fulfilling of carnal lusts. They knew that, why don’t you?
You also state (incorrectly) that being gay isn’t a choice. If that were true then places like exodus international (http://www.exodus-international.org) would not be at all effective, yet they are extremely effective in helping those who recognize their perversity, to change. Go ahead and tell the lies about that group that gays always use (scare tactics about suicides and the like), and go ahead and call me names now. It seems to be all you can do when you have no arguement worthy of rational discussion.
I pity your pathetic perverse lifestyle, and hope some day you will mature enough to realize the harm you are trying to perpetrate by making your sickness the rule of law. Most of us have some kind of twistedness, but we aren’t trying to make them into law. Why do you feel the need to make yours law? How sad you all are.
You are a hater by your own admission. And it’s impossible to dress that up in a pretty little skirt and justify it by saying you hate the “act”, but not the person. The FACT that you say you will do ANYTHING to keep gays from acting in a way that is NATURAL FOR THEM, means that you will HURT other human beings that don’t do anything against you. How far do you want to go… forcibly educate/indoctrinate them, shun them, imprison them, assault them, kill them…. ALL THESE METHODS HAVE BEEN DONE TO GAYS BEFORE BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!! But you’re such a good kind caring soul, it’s perfectly justifiable because you heard that GOD doesn’t like it. LMFAO.
more so called demonic ramblings from a lost soul in bondage,hmmm,interesting!
I’ve enjoyed reading these comments on these heated topics. It amazes
me how some people that try so hard to share their ideas and beliefs
to a certain individual that is a total nut-case & is more lost than a
goose in a hail storm. (not to mention his name, don’t want to seem
mean & hurt his little feelings). If no body is home (in their head)
why keep knocking? Creatures of instinct, are just that, creatures of
instinct that cannot grasp, God’s creation or reason, because there
ain’t nobody home.
David, you’re so full of facts and figures and intelligence in your argument… You must have received a doctorate in philosophy for your skillful dialectic. ROTFL Some of us can actually look at history, analyze politics and understand what it takes for a civil society to remain so, while others of lesser intelligence like to resort to edicts from translated fairy tales they don’t even understand.
Rodin, ole boy, the FACT is, is that I’m about as dumb as a bucket of
worms. That’s what makes this debate, fun. I read all these educated
people’s opinions and get to join in with my Southern, hillbilly,
dirt road common sense opinion, that makes good sense to me, I’m the
one writing it. Educated people, sit back, & read & laugh at dumb folks, like me. And dumb folks scratch their heads & laugh at educated,
folks!! And the sun comes up & the world goes round & round, I THINK!
You know, I really don’t mind peoples laughing at one nuther, but when we set up discriminatory laws, allow for hateful rhetoric that leads to potential physical assaults and stop trying to live with each other in mutually respectful ways… then I have a problem. Maybe that’s what makes me a nutcase.
wow,our bible study group is learning so much from you,keep it up,facinating insight from a demonized lost soul.you are a font of insight!
This is one of the saddest representations of human unconsciousness that I have ever seen.
God loves ALL.
We humans create the “rules” and the “hate”. God loves ALL.
There is no danger to you if others choose to live differently.
What you “hate” is in you…look inside to see the truth.
I confess I stumbled on this thread not usually choosing such diatribe. Once here though I could not move away…much like witnessing a horrible accident.
I hope each of you has a way…for just a moment…to free yourself from such anger and hate.
If you hate…you will be hated.
If you love…
I know. I can’t understand why when we speak of love and understanding they want to murder dismember and slander us. But as always the loves of all that is right with the Father are the bad guys. You know, Kill the messenger. We don’t stand a chance here changing their hearts to Jesus. But we will keep taking the stripes for Jesus. He took enough for you and me. They blame the Christians instead of the entire nation that is against this. I can see why they would want this to be a law. I just wish that they could see as a servant of God we can not condone ie. They have a right to put it to a vote. But they think it is the horrible Christians but if they look around the population is now more secular than ever then they have the Christians are not of Judah. (Rev.biblical term) that don’t walk as true believers of the word of God. So why do they come down so hard on lesser minority that really doesn’t have much say any more, If we did we wouldn’t be killing 5000000 babies a year. Boy, they are beating the wrong dog here. It’s Secular and fake Christians they should be trying convert.
I meant to mention also that “freedom” comes from within. You cannot find freedom by expecting the world to give it to you. It does not exist there.
I don’t understand how a debate on an issue ends on love or hate. How
can you love or hate somebody that you don’t know and have never meet?
Opposite debated issues shouldn’t end in hate. Agreed issues shouldn’t
end in love. Maybe some people believe if, I agree, I love em, if I don’t agree, I hate em. More than I know!! And then, they always want
to tell folks that disagree with them how much God loves them! More
than I know. If, you agree, I don’t really care, if you don’t agree,
I don’t care. Ain’t got nothing to do with love and hate.
Your arguments certainly appear to have a lot to do with hate. ANY necessarily ANTI-GAY attitudes and excuses for actions will ALWAYS be based in HATE.
Rodin, I don’t understand, why you don’t get it? I know and like about
3 gay folks, one worked for me a while, (very good worker) 1 lesbian,
that is the daughter of a dear friend of mine, another gay guy named,
Kenny that is a brother, to a dear friend of mine for 35 years. I LIKE
all of them. Don’t agree with their life-style or gay marriage. I’m not
their judge or their God. And the FACT is, if someone tried to harm any
one of them, just because they were gay, I would come to their defense.
The fight would be on like a pot of neck-bones. I’ll say it again, my
disagreement don’t have a damn thing to do with love or hate.Damn-it-boy!
So David. Let me see if I’ve got this straight (no pun intended). You’ll gladly join the fray if someone is physically hurting a gay person but you have no objections to making laws to discriminate AGAINST gays. You have no objection to taking their tax dollars and redistributing them to the straights.. you have no objection to allowing some churches to vocalize their opinions of hatred towards gays… Sounds a little hypocritical to me.
Rodin, I don’t understand, why you don’t get it? I know and like about
3 gay folks, one worked for me a while, (very good worker) 1 lesbian,
that is the daughter of a dear friend of mine, another gay guy named,
Kenny that is a brother, to a dear friend of mine for 35 years. I LIKE
all of them. Don’t agree with their life-style or gay marriage. I’m not their judge or their God. And the FACT is, if someone tried to harm anyone of them, just because they were gay, I would come to their defense. The fight would be on like a pot of neck-bones. I’ll say it again, my disagreement don’t have a damn thing to do with love or hate.Damn-it-boy!
hmmm,you seem to know all about hate,as your the ONLY one who keeps using the word over and over and over and over.were learning more and more,keep it up,you are a excellent example of a very lost soul and are providing our bible study group with some a+ material,thanks!
Rodin, let me see if I can get this straight. I think it is wrong to
harm or HATE anybody for the sole purpose of them being gay, straight,
black, white, Believer or Unbliever. When an abortion clinic is burned
down or people harmed for having abortions. They should be punished by
the hardest, fullest extent of the law. My adult daughter and one of
my adult sister’s had an abortion. I’m totally against it, and disagree, but I’m not going to harm them or stand by and let anyone
else harm them. I’ll say it again, Im not their judge or their God. I’m
their brother & daddy. I love them both. Don’t PUT WORDS in my mouth, I
have never said anything about churches preaching hate against gays.
Jerry Falewell preached hate against gays, a blind man could see that.
As far as your or my tax dollars, hell, man we’re taxed so much, I don’t know where it is all going & going to be TAXED more. As far, as
you believing I’m being hypocritical, then so be it, that’s your opinion, not mine. That’s the best I can do on where I stand on the issues. If you got it, GOOD, if not, I don’t know how to put it.
Well David. So far you’ve told me how much you “like” everybody and would never hurt anybody. However, by opposing equal rights for gays, you show you have no respect for them merely because of who they are. You blanket define an identifiable group and then determine they are worthy of less rights than yourself. That is the definition of subjugation and when applied against an entire group is the premise for hatred. How better can I explain it. If you’re such a peaceable person then re-examine your premises for the arguments that allow you to justify discrimination. You may be surprised.
Damn, I’m glad we’re not racing, it would be like a turtle tryin to catch a rabbit. You’d win! I never said I like everybody, because I don’t. What I said was based on the simple fact of HUMANITY! Not on
like, dislike, love, hate, agree or disagree. I think it’s WRONG to
try to physically harm some one, just because of them being gay, straight, black, white, or just because you disagree with them or don’t
like them, it’s a thang call LIVE & LET LIVE (HUMANITY). That’s it.
Found something we can agree on!! WELCOME TO MY WORLD, I’m a nut-case
too.
ahh,more ”logical” rhetoric from a lost soul,dang you sure are a veratable font of insight to a hate filled demonized person,where learning more and more,thanks!
RODIN, DAVE HAS BEEN VERY POLITE AND REPECTFUL of YOU. okay, really really tried to. You sure make it hard sometimes though. I could hug a wiccan, Squeeze prostituted till her belly pops. We can love and respect any other person of any habit, color job description, legal or not, religions of any denomination other than our own but what you don’t understand we can not go against Gods teachings, That does not mean we don’t love and respect them, We have to be about our Fathers business no matter the price we may have to pay. You are so true to your beliefs. You should be able to understand. So no matter what horrible names you call us and no matter how much you try to put us down we still can not feel any differently. Don’t you think sometimes it would be just easier to throw the towel in other than to make someone hate because they can’t or won’t even try to understand our side. We like you are hated just for our beliefs. But the stripes are worth it.
Frederick H
I honestly wish I could agree with your argument, which is quite eloquent.
Obama does not discuss anything with his proponents nor opponents on any subject he lectures them through his speeches. He is a socialist which he has proven time and again both before and after the election by his actions, those he surrounds himself with and his limited voting trend in the Senate. I wish I could agree with you, but I trust only the actions and record of any politician because when they speak only half-truths and all out lies are sure to follow. Obama just as John McCain are both politicians, yet both state one thing but do another. I used those two because they are in different parties on purpose. Want proof on John McCain re-listen to his campaign speeches and then go back and look at his voting trends on the same subjects and I bet you will find they don’t always add up.
Back to the subject of this article
Why should a gay not be given equal right to pay for a terribly expensive divorce?
Why should a lesbian not have that same right?
Who is anyone to judge someone else based solely on anything that is considered personal or private, are we NOT a FREE country?
Why should a gay or lesbian not have the right to be legally married under the eyes of the law, notice I am not saying church on purpose because that would be up to each church individually?
We allow people to spew hate filled messages on race or creed on a regular basis in this country from the KKK, Black Panthers or Neo-Nazi groups (there are others these are easy to remember), because they have that right under the first amendment, but is this also not against the bible, at least in the new testament?
Why are there at least 6 different translations of the bible and they are all different as to the message or meaning of the same verse?
Why is it that people are still stating AIDS is the gay disease when anyone can get it who is sexually active with multiple partners?
Why is it that most religions talk of love yet preach hate?
Oh I can go on and on with these types of questions and I guarantee the most religious person in here can not answer these questions satisfactorily. I have spoken with religious scholars on these questions and they too could not answer them, I just happen to live near a Pontifical school where Catholic Priests go, and contracted at it for computers and telephone support for a while. I know because it is all BULL$&*@ as Penn & Teller would say.
Well Rich I can be fairly brief about Obama’s (alleged) socialism and I think this’ll my last shot. For one, if you “accuse” someone of endorsing whatever ism, you should be crystal clear about the MEANING of that particular concept. The point I’ve been making time and again is, that the very term socialism is not even properly defined, let alone illustrated (in the case of Obama) with straightforward, concrete, verifiable facts. If you say the President is merely acting out his agenda without listening to anybody or discussing his points of view with either proponents or his adversaries, where´s the hard proof, the verifiable evidence. It´s as with the whole debate about the existence or non-existence of alien races. There is a whole library available of arguments pro and con, but where is the rock hard evidence? Why can’t anybody come up with even a tiny, tiny collection of really tangible objects, convincing us directly and indubitably of the existence of these critters? We’ve waiting for over sixty years and there’s nothing forthcoming. Well, to me the same thing is happening as to Obama’s surmised socialistic mentality. Everybody seems to be blathering socialism, socialism, socialism these days, but no one has been offering extensive, hard evidence, tying Obama in with socialism as we now it from what? The former Soviet type of government? Hugo Chavez’s current administration? (Spain´s prime minister) José Manuel Zapatero´s brand of socialism (which is quite, quite different from what you´ll find in either Venezuela or Cuba nowadays)? Michelle Bachelet´s socialism, which is quite akin to what´s been practiced in Spain? Yes, what kind of socialism are we considering here?
So, finally my main point is threefold: a) What’s your definition of socialism? b) What type of socialism is at issue and (very significantly) c) How PRECISELY is the socialist political agenda propounded (in the case of our President) affecting the American people here and now? And, mind you, questions are to be answered in this particular order, because the issues are fully `consecutive` (and interdependent), as far as I´m concerned. Yeah, it´s so easy and cheap to label and kick somebody into the corner of some sort of `ism`, but it would seem much more difficult to offer really strong evidence corroborating your position. Ask any honest, well trained sociologist or anthropologist and you´ll see what I mean.
By the way, I FULLY agree with your argument concerning the conservative position on `gayness` and gay culture. It´s all so incredibly hypocritical and misguided, that it makes you wonder whether really properly educated individuals are addressing the issue in hand here.
To clarify what I meant on Socialism, it is not the same as communism which is what the former Soviet Union had, though communism is a socialist style government. Hugo Chavez, yes is a socialist, but he is also along the lines of a dictatorial leader, so I can not say if he believes in that direction as nothing he has said nor done leads me to believe he is that extreme. He has stated for the record he believes in government run health care, which is socialist, he has stated he believes in all of the social programs that FDR enacted which are socialist. I am not comparing him to what many compare to communist, as he has not clearly shown he is all the way to the left as those governmental styles are. He has stated on many occasions as to his beliefs on social programs being government ran, which are socialist views. Socialist is not a bad thing, I just don’t happen to agree with it. I don’t agree with the government take over of GM, as that is socialist. I don’t agree with the takeover of any private business as that road leads to communism through socialism. I clearly gave what socialism and communism are as defined in the dictionary. I am not going outside those lines with Obama as he has not only stated for the record, yes mostly previous to his election as president, as to his beliefs, but shown us through actions taken since becoming President. The rhetoric he states today versus what he has stated since going in office is entirely different with what he said previous to that. Well to be honest I am of the firm belief he believes in socialism, believes it is the best way, weather that road leads to communism or stays in the middle of the road I don’t know, and will not put conjecture on, just as our president Franklin D. Roosevelt believed it was. Is that saying he is wrong, no I just don’t agree that the US needs more socialism, as a matter of fact I am of the firm belief that through those socialist programs we have seen the deterioration of the country, with professional welfare recipients, organizations whose only purpose is to assist people in defrauding the government to unlawfully receive benefits they are not eligible for and so on. I grew up poor but not on welfare and watched as professional welfare recipients went to the grocery store in nicer cars than my parents could afford, buying foods my parents could never afford. I have seen what socialism does to poor communities, it promotes laziness and allows for people to give up their personal rights to those providing for them. So if you want to attack my comments this is where I am coming from on my difference of opinion with socialism. Does that mean that what I wrote will happen 100% of the time under socialism, no it does not. It just is my experience with the style of socialism as done by our government, not to say that the socialism in European countries is the same or any different, I can’t speak to either I have neither lived nor been to those countries.
Yoikes! I’ve stepped in way over my head. All “issues” and “debates” have to do with the very essence of “love” and whether or not it’s there (in fact all of life has to do with love). There are no “issues” or “debates” needed if one realizes that we are all the same. The need to argue and debate come from the false belief that we are “different” and we have to “protect” our beliefs in order to be ourselves. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I’m stepping out of this conversation, although it does intrigue me (wondering why anyone would spend time arguing about something so mundane). I realize this is not the thread for trying to convey what is reality. It’s more a pissing match to see who’s right or wrong.
A hint…neither is right nor wrong.
Enjoy your game.
Yeah, right on Tiffle. In fact this whole thing about gay marriage is a total “non-issue”. Whether gays marry or not will not affect anybody else’s life one way or another. Folk marry everyday all over the globe. Who cares? Our paychecks and/or investment revenues will keep coming, crime rate will most certainly not rise, a lot of totally unwanted children in this horrible world will be adopted and raised with a whole lot of love and understanding, etc, etc. What more do you want? So, let’s get on with our businesses as usual and stop fussing about something that will be common practice within the entire US of A within a decade anyway!!!
Who gives a ducks waddle about what Dick Cheney now thinks. The man is pure evil.
NO marriage but all the entitlements as if married is in my view the way to go.
What is the difference in having all the same benefits and legal marriage? I mean that (legal marriage) is done by a Justice of the Peace, be it Chief of Police, a Judge, the mayor or what not and not by a clergyman.
The root of this discussion should focus on the systematic destruction of everything that reflects morality, ethics and avalue system that anyone would be able to recognize here in America. Relative morality and diversity are the bywords for radical leftist infiltration at every level of our society. A free society accepts a diverse and tolerant approach to alternative lifestyles and diverse religious and political beliefs. What we are facing in this nation now, however, is a direct attack on traditional values. We cannot pray openly without being sued or threatened and marginalized. However, any blatant demonstration of sodomy or pedophilia is cheered and supported by media and govt. from San Fransicko to Cleveland. Daily calls to prayer and selective acceptance of Muslim practices in our public schools and colleges are common, while Christian beliefs and practices are supressed. When my 5 yr. old daughter is subjected to homosexual indoctrination in a public school atmosphere, as many are today, it is time for me to stand up and say no more. Not my kids. You can live and believe or not believe as you see fit folks, but when your lifestyle invaded my space you have crossed a line and that will not be tolerated by many today. There are limits to a person’s so called self expression in any civilised society. When you push those limits someone is going to push back.
Scottcarp, I AGREE! I’ve read many opinions from the left loon-toones
and the right. My question is why waste your time and their’s on morals, your little girl (family), Christianity or family values. These
are subjects that fuel their anger and hatred. Then, they attack by
their little name calling. They should get a spanking for that. My
Daddy, whipped me when I was a kid, for that. Another value, some
folks wouldn’t understand.
Oh yeah (sigh, sigh) Scottcarp, there we go again. Wasn’t America supposed to be a FREE COUNTRY, or as some even contend, the Freest Country of them All? Well, that Freedom includes the right to self-expression within the limits of the Law. Conservative small mindedness is not going to prohibit us gays anymore from standing up for our rights. What business is it of ours what you care to do about your child’s education? If you want to keep your children as ignorant as the next (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) idiot, go ahead, be my guest. I really don’t care a damn. Your child will find out about Reality anyway, sooner or later, whatever you do. You talk about indoctrination? Isn’t the Christian Hogwash many of our children are being exposed to, the lies and deception you’ve been spreading for centuries already, nothing more than pure perverse indoctrination? Come on now, you can haul your daughter over to Timbuktu, for all I care. Your importance will be as negligible as ever before. Just keep that firmly in your corn mush mind.
Freddy, there is a big different between a FREE NATION & a SODOM &
GOMORRAH NATION. Maybe, that’s where your getting a little confused.
Or maybe, all the little name calling you do, confuses you. Lucky,
for you, we live in a Christian Nation and NOT a Muslim Nation, we
wouldn’t be having this debate, would we? If you know, what I mean.
scottcarp,
I agree with your sentiments that no religion should be persecuted in this country, as we have freedom of religion. I also believe that no group should be oppressed for their way of life, beliefs, color, nationality, creed or any other reason. I can’t believe I actually agree with Smille on any point but I agree that homosexuals should not be treated as second class citizens and be allowed the full right of living their life as a citizen of the US with all of the rights therefore given. I also believe that schools that allow for 1 religious act to happen should be required to allow all religious acts to happen to include prayer by any student of any faith. I don’t think the real issue is that Christians are being targeted I personally think it is bigger than that, as all people in a majority role are being targeted and the country is being destroyed by groups like the ACLU, ACORN, SEIU and so on. Do I buy the conspiracy theory they are all the same organization, that is up for debate. I do believe they are systematically targeting majority groups, be it for religion, nationality, ethnicity or what ever to cause friction with the people of minority. I remember in high school literally being told I should feel bad for my fellow black class mates because their ancestors were slaves, really? How do you know this? What proof do you have? Oh and what proof do you have that none of my ancestors were slave? Oh by the way one of my ancestors taught Booker T. Washington to read, did you know that Mrs. Teacher, do you even care? I really don’t care what etnicity, sexual orientation or what ever your life style is, you should not be persecuted, period. If you believe in the bible then you should believe ‘Judge Not, lest ye be judged’ and ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’. Those are the two most basic teachings in the new testament, in all of the versions of the bible I have read.
So really is it just the Christians being persecuted so they are lashing out at the gays or is it that all majority groups in the US are being attacked, causing resentment, hate, and retaliation?
No Davey, this is neither a Christian nor a Muslim country. The USA constitute a secular state, featuring a strict separation of Church and State, remember? And, allow me to instruct you on Sodom and Gomorrah. That delightful story doesn’t address the phenomenon of homosexuality as such at all. No, Davey, what is being conveyed there is the, (perhaps, typically Middle Eastern) issue of the “unpardonableness” of any abuse of (especially “alien”) visitors. The “angels” figuring prominently in the story where highly honored guests, of course, and hospitability should have been particularly observed in this case. So the men outside fighting to have their way with the pretty visitors where obviously violating one of the strictest rules on hand: honor Thine (Neighbor’s) Guests.
And, oh, lest I forget: it’s been reported in that very same chapter that Lot, Abraham’s cousin, used to sleep with his daughters, knocking ‘em up quite nicely. No problem at all, apparently, at that particular time. So, in the 21th century we GLADLY attend gay weddings and around 2000 BC you could mess around with your own sweet daughters as much as you liked. What a glorious evolution, eh, in just about forty centuries. What d’ya say?
Yeah, Freddy, I agree with that, The Romans had no family values, they
burn and rape and destroy. Or the Roman King would put on a big hoe-down feast, eatin, drinking, doping, and last but not least, sex with
anything or anybody, you know if it feels good do it, (kinda a thing).
Boys, girls, or beasts, it didn’t matter.
As far, Lott and his two daughters, after they witness and seen what
they seen, it was a maybe we better get started repopulating the earth, because if daddy dies, we know, we can have all the SEX we want, and we’ll be free to have all the SEX, we want, BUT AIN’T NO WAY
WE CAN REPOPULATE THE EARTH, IF DADDY DIES, GET MY POINT, BUBBA?
Strict separation of church and state is not a constitutional right any more than is anyone’s right to marry–only a unilateral “civil right” as defined by a biased judge or group. Just as the “right” to an abortion as guaranteed to a woman considering that her body is hers to control is avery subjective decision considering that Mr. Holdren yor new healthcare CZAR feels that the constitution does not guaruntee you the right to have children and that your organs belong to the “state” should you become incapacitated. Your children are now becoming wards of the “state’ and as such will be forced into “voluntary” national service–think ACORN/Americorps/Obamaserv.gov. Their only way to be accepted for a “state” run student loan is now to volunteer fora a govt. run Green squad or join the military. No religious services or open display of same willbe permitted in these “campuses” as proscribed by Premier Obama. Even the uniforms are to be selected by the mighty Michelle her magnificence. The small minded “usefull idiots” out there are the ones falling in with the goosestepping sheeple of the YES WE CAN crowd. As for myself I will not go quietly into that good night. As for my girls they are more self aware and coherent than any force fed red diaper doper baby robot spun out of the robot factories we call public schools today. However many of you folks think Che, Castro, and Chavez are the idolic leaders of the future and have elected someone far more dangerous. I will stand up for my freedoms and those of my children until they haul me off to the glag thank you, and I will teach any who care to listen how to find a path that may lead us out of tyranny,If we are very consientious, very aware’ and very very lucky.
Sir, the pot is boiling and been boiling for a while. When it boils over and is burning God Loving, Freedom and Family Loving Americans, the people will stop tyranny by the Gov. same ole way our fore-fathers,
stopped it over 200 years ago. In the mist of recession, and unemployment, Gun and ammo sales are through the roof, in spike of
Obama’s Tax on them. Your not alone in your concerns and worries. There
are millions in the red states, keeping their mouths shut and waiting.
The Obama folks, know this. When the Gov. starts slapping high taxes on
the net and conservative talk shows to STOP COMUNICATION, and it’s coming. Then it will be time to get off the couch.
Yeah, that’s your sole concern, eh, taxes, taxes, taxes. You want security, you want a fancy infrastructure all around the country so as to keep rolling those super polluting cars of yours till doomsday; you want fully affordable health care, clean air, so you won’t die of lung cancer or emphysema one day, but, it shouldn’t cost you one single penny. Everything for nothing. That’s the High Brow Conservative mentality you want us liberals to admire, don’t you? Your Greed and Stupidity has no limits. You call yourselves Christians but your hearts still reside where they’ve always been: in our purse, your bank account, yer precious material possessions and, of course, yer rifles. Very spiritual, very civilized. I can very well imagine Christ and his apostles slapping you on the shoulders, saying: very well done son, great going, I’ve even got a much more sophisticated model for you here, look……
Yeah handgun and ammo sales are through the roof, Scottcarp. Well, it proves my point: Conservative America is the Unsurpassed Example for the rest of this world. The Mexican drug cartel boys will really love you for facilitating the distribution of yer unique weaponry, as will the terrorists in Somalia and (oh splendid irony) Afghanistan and Iraq. It was such a touching sight a few months ago, the NRA convention, where little boys could be seen fondling the latest types of handguns strewn about in that hall of halls. Fantastic civilization, eh. You’re quite right: keep those gay predators miles away from yer children, but let ‘em play with as many tough guns as they like. They’re our future generation, after all, our hope for all times to come. Their love of guns will bring us all the peace we’ve been craving for since time immemorial……
By the way, Davey, I forgot to remind that spanking is being considered CHILD ABUSE in many states these days. I’d check with the authorities if I were you and watch my step, unless you’re really hard up and want to enjoy a few slammer meals to spike your appetite!!!
Finally that story about Lott’s daughters being raped, yes raped, because the region had to be repopulated is just a bunch of BS. It’s what we call a rationalization in psychology. It was common practice in the Middle East and it still is to have your way with yer own girls if your wife happens to have past on or appears to be too ill disposed to have you on top of her once again, as a matter of fact. (You should watch CNN more often!!).
Freddy, I never said Lott’s daughters got raped. The 1st paragraph was
addressed to what took place, over 2 thousand years ago, under the Roman Empire. The 2nd paragraph was directed to Lott and his daughters.
Here’s a simple little lesson for you Freddy, which I’m sure you will
disagree. It’s written in the book, you may hate, which I love.
GOD SETS UP KINGDOMS AND WATCHES KINGDOMS FALL. GOD CREATED THE RICH &
THE POOR. GOD CREATED EVERYTHING IN THE FULLNESS, THERE OF. The Egyptain, Persian, and Roman Empires were set up by the hand of God,
and brought down, by the hand of God. Since, you don’t understand the
benefit and teaching to the child being spanked (CHILD ABUSE), I sure
you want understand that. By the way, I’m the oldest out of 7 kids and
we were born dirt, damn, poor and would fight over a chicken bone. But
none of us blamed God or them mean ole rich republicans for it. When,
your well goes dry, dig another well. By the way, I sure you never got
a spanking.
Oh! Yeah, I almost forgot Freddy, (GENESIS 19:32) addresses, the story
of Lot and his two daughters. I could care less, if you believe it or
don’t believe it.
Bravo Freddie! True Saul Alinski tactics at their best. Never speak to the masses except in a language they understand.$$$$$$$ Identify, isolate, and then mock and humiliate the messanger. Always redirect the discussion to a position in which you can identify yourself as the victim. Well, you are speking to some truly poor people out here who are very disgusted with elitist “rationalization” for their purely selfish and politicly based goals. If we choose to arm ourseves we will. Unlike some, we won’t go into the local nightclub and shoot ourselves in the leg. We have training and more common sense. As for the cartels to the south they are supplied more by east european and Chinese dealers in AK’s and Kalishnakov’s than they are from the US. But that point is diversion. I could’nt care less where they get their weapons. {Here is some real Christian charity for you} After The Left and their druglord cohorts have indoctrinated our culture into a drug induced stupor for years–read your communist manifesto–Maybe they will blow themselves back into the stone age–along with the Islamo-Fascists who support them. Here is a byline for those who consider conservatives to be the warmongers. Your Dear Leader has recently thrown our Czech. and Polish allies under the bus as he permits the Russians to sell AA missles, aircraft, and all manner of weaponry to not just Iran, but to his new found good buddy Hugo Chavez as well. Well keep following the money with this administration. You will find good old Chickago thug tactics turned into international policy. Just like Lenin,Stalin and Mao–they always cut the throats of their allies first.
VERY WELL PUT! Plus, when Israel knocks out, them nuke sites and they
will, because they know Obama sold our allies out, hoping he could get
the Russians on board, with these so-called TOUGH sanctions against Iran. Some believe, it will elevate to world war 3. More than I know.
scottcarp,
That is probably the best put post as a response to someone attacking I have seen thus far. I love how liberals love to say you want to take my money for you x, well no I want you to keep your money and me to keep my money so both of us can afford x, rather than all the redistribution of wealth your party endorses. Oh so you want the government to ‘take care of you medically, financially or whatever’ no that is from your party not my beliefs. How about this do some research on which party tends to pass tax cuts and then which party tends to pass tax increases, I bet the Republicans typically vote for tax cuts whereas Democrats vote for the increase, wow what a freakin concept the conservatives (real conservatives not self-serving politicians) want smaller federal government which in itself would reduce the need to tax you or me for over 40% of our income in total. I will state that I am right with conservatives on these subjects just not when it comes to taking rights away from anyone based on anything be it religious beliefs, political beliefs, race, color, creed or whatever. All people should be able to enjoy the same rights or this country is not truly free!
Rich, I hate to do this, but you are wrong. You can search for the tax increases and cuts and you will see that they were increased in 1916,1917, cut 5 times in the 1920′s increased in 1932, 1940.1941,1942, cut in 1981, increased in 1982, increased 1984,1986,1990,1993 Basically they were increased to support wars, and when the tax cuts in 1981 sent us into a deep recession, they were increased in 82,84,86, from 86-90 due to significant spending they were raised in 93. I will give you these links to review as if identify who raised taxes, I will get blasted. http://www.treas.gov/education/factsheet/taxes/ustax.shtml
The biggest tax increase ever was by Regan in 1982 please see http://www.factcheck.org/treasury_tax_expert_to_bush_clintons_increase.html
It is a bad rap that we have given the Dem’s and I would like you to look at the Republican Party Platform for 1916, it will shock you. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu./ws/index.php?pid=29634
Look under working program number 15 and 16. Then take a gander at the collective ownership section…
Just thought you might like to get the real story.
tried clicking on your first link and it didn’t work.
Liberty, I just tried and first two work fine. the last one, I’m researching again. but thanks for heads up.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu./ws/index.php?pid=29634 working programs #15 and 16. Collective ownership section follows
http://www.factcheck.org/treasury_tax_expert_to_bush_clintons_increase.html
http://www.treas.gov/education/factsheet/taxes/ustax.shtml
http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml
oops, i forgot the hypen after fact. sorry/ it is now correct see below
Scottcarp, I do have a question for you, how do you think that Obama could stop the Russians from selling to anybody? Did someone make him God and not tell us? Hate to tell you but, they really don’t have to do a thing that we suggest. We don’t own them and are you trying to say that you want Obama to try and govern another country when you don’t even want him to govern here?
No, no Scottie, you should really do some valid research into the matter and get your facts straight. The Mexican President Mr. Calderón really begged President Obama to ratify a ban on AK rifle trafficking from the US to his country. But, of course the NRA is putting the screws on the President and Congress, urging them not to comply. No, neither Eastern European, nor Chinese manufacturers figure prominently in this whole wretched business; it’s the USA (the Big Boys up there in the NRA) who’re profiting hugely from arms trafficking to countries all over the globe: so-called devout American Christians who’re making mammoth bucks, billions of dollars year round, selling their garbage to criminals down South.
Here’s a quote from an official Government Accountability Office report released recently, entitled, “Firearms Trafficking: U.S. Efforts to Combat Arms Trafficking to Mexico Face Planning and Coordination Challenges.” It says, about 87 percent of firearms seized in Mexico and traced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) in the last five years originated in the United States; and (that) these firearms are increasingly more powerful and lethal, including “high-caliber and high-powered” AK-47 and AR-15 type semi-automatic rifles”….
And, mind you, particularly these billionaires keep whining about the allegedly “outrageous” tax rates Gov is “burdening” them with these days. Not a gram of social conscience to be found up there in those warped brains. Well, Dave and Rich, I really do hope the Dems screw them with a 70% tax rate shortly. That’ll teach ‘em.
Oh, as for Iran and the “nuclear shield affair”. Of course, the most intelligent (….) thing President Obama could do, would be to keep pestering the Russians with such shield plans (as Bush did) and lose a super state in Europe as an ally. Jeez…. And you talk about our “friends”, the Poles and Czechs? Yeah, friends to allow us facilities for secretly torturing Arabs suspected (often very vaguely suspected) of “terrorist plans or activities”. Great friends, who’ve been cashing in millions of American tax-payer dollars in the past two decades. Here’s by the way, what the Polish President Lech Kaczynski had to say regarding the missile shield matter. ‘In 1939, Iran joined with Nazi Germany to partition our country, and massacred thousands of our officers and soldiers at Katyn Forest in 1940. Even today, the Iranians appear remarkably unapologetic about this. With the Russians, by contrast, we have never had any problems. Coordinating our defenses with the Russians seems like a really good idea”. So, Carpie, it’s all politics as usual. And, you know what? If President Obama had not “given in” to the Russians but had stubbornly installed those damned shields, folk would say: ‘see, he’s putting us all at risk by provoking rage and retaliation from those power-hungry crooks’. Now that he´s done the opposite, the masses begin to scream that he´s betrayed our `friends`. Shame on him”. Great nation, eh, America. Very rational, as you can see!
Anyhow, ten times Hooray to President Obama, who’s made a very, very, very wise move. Of course, we’ll probably never learn much about the cunning machinations behind the curtains to properly appease and compensate our Czech and Polish “friends” out there. Money’s got fantastic healing properties, they say. Just let your imagination speak…..
Oh yes, about those tax cuts, Davie. Know what happened in California, that’s grown broke to the bone now? When yer favorite Ronald Reagan was Governor over there, he decided to be very generous with tax cuts and our friend Arnie Schwarz upheld the ”tradition”, albeit to a lesser degree. But, of course, State expenses kept rising like mad over the decades without Treasury caring to put the brakes on spending or wanting to raise taxes (substantially). So, with the recession kicking in finally, the fancy cake hit the floor like an expertly punctured tire. No stretch of the imagination needed to divine who’re suffering most now: our working class friends who’d already been struggling to make ends meet anyway and are being fired by the thousands lately. So much for sensible conservative Republican financial policy!
Freddie, who said Ronald Reagan was my favorite Governor? I didn’t.
What broke California was spend & tax, the state taking care of all
them illegals pouring in (health-care), (schools & prisons), state &
local pensions. The same track Obama is on! Freddie, you can’t spend
money you ain’t got and prosper. It’s like this, I don’t have 5 nickels, your a nice guy and you loan me 5 nickels, I spend the 5 nickels, knowing I got to pay you, back! All this money, Obama is
spending, Freddie, somebody at sometime, somewhere has got to pay it
back. It’s that simple, whether it’s a Democrat or Republican spending
it. It don’t matter.
By the way, Rich, if you want to learn a thing or two about tax increases by a Republican President (i.e. Ronnie Reagan), then please have a peek at the link provided by eyeswideopen above. And be surprised!!!!!
I can see that you really don’t know much about macro economics Davey. The situation Obama’s been facing since he took office is far from uniquely American, Davey. We’ve got a GLOBAL RECESSION on our hands, remember Davey? So, the measures you take as a leader will have to properly match those taken by your colleagues worldwide, OK? Not only Obama is spending his heart out, so is the Japanese Government, the UK’s Gordon Brown, France’s Sarkozy, Germany’s Angela Merkel (and she’s just BEEN REELECTED, Davey, about 24 hours ago, if you didn’t know).
Perhaps you haven’t given it much thought, but in case Obama had decided to do just nothing, and had refrained from launching a stimulus plan (or more correctly, followed up on Bush’ policy), the recession would have been even much, much deeper, Davey. Thousands upon thousands more jobs would have been lost, small businesses gone totally bankrupt and banks climbing out of the rut right now would probably have vanished forever. So, let your brain do a sensible job for a change and realize that those so-called Big Spenders aren’t buying fancy cars for their relatives or sweets for their children and haven’t been opening fat bank accounts in Jersey or the Cayman Islands with the money flowing out of Treasury, Davey. They’re doing their spending to save your very @$$, Davey – or better even, millions of your poor Fellow Americans will profit very, very nicely from the President’s policies and still spit in his face, Davey!!! Fine nation, eh?
And, Davey, just consider this for a tiny second: the difference between the short- and the long-term effects of your (financial) policies. May I remind you that Obama’s been in office for barely nine months and that he’s inherited a total stinking mess from the previous administration. If he’d still be spending the same huge amount of dough in 2011, WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT REIMBURSEMENT by the erstwhile ailing banks or a major improvement of our national economy in general, there would be cause for a “crucifixion”, so to speak. But by Jove, the man’s not even had a shadow of a chance to prove the point of his economic policy or a whole bunch of conservatives start screaming that he’s “bringing our country down”. No Davey, you’d better turn your face towards the banks you’ve stuffed over the decades with savings cash and blame them for having completely messed up our economy whilst unashamedly picking up their fraudulent bonus practices after having been dragged out of the mud by our government. But, let’s hope the Feds will put the screws on ‘em quite tightly now, considering the Tough Words spoken in Pittsburgh the past few days. Bravo!
And then those “illegals”. Well I’m quite sure your Christian Heart (you’re a real Christian, aren’t you….) is ticking very, very warmly on their behalf. But alas, you can’t do a single thing for them, because you’re not Jesus, after all. Let the corrupt Mexican government take care of those bums. When you appear before your Lord, up there in heaven, he’ll most certainly say: ah, you really took heed and minded the story about the Good Samaritan. You cried your eyes out on account of all those sorry suckers dying in the desert, hungry, thirsty and in pain, unable to provide for their children. And, above all, you donated a substantial part of your income to help those dirty critters out. Yeah, you really deserve a place here, right beside me. Come, have a sit…..
Let me tell you something, Freddie Ole Boy, I’ll NEVER, EVER DESERVE, a
set next to my Lord and Savior, JESUS CHRIST! I’ll never be WORTHY to
WASH & KISS THE FEET of my Lord and Savior, JESUS CHRIST! Now you, got
that ole boy? Yeah, I’m a Christian and probably one of the WORSE, you
would ever see. You got that, ole boy? I’m SAVED BY GRACE, THROUGH
FAITH, by my Lord & Savior, JESUS CHRIST! You got that, ole boy? When
I suck for my last breath and don’t get it, Yeah! I enter into HIS
KINGDOM, by HIS BLOOD, LOVE, MERCY & GRACE, by FAITH, not on what a good or bad little boy, I’ve been. I’M A FREE MAN! Freddie, you’ll
never understand what, I just wrote and I don’t expect you, too. Maybe
you understand this 1+1=2, in the U.S. economy or Global economy. Yes, I understand when Obama BANKRUPTS OUR ECONOMY, IT will effect the GLOBAL ECONOMY. AND FREDDIE, I HOPE AND PRAY, I’M DEAD WRONG ABOUT OBAMA, FOR THE SAKE OF OUR FREEDOM, SAFETY, & ECONOMY. By the way,
democrat, republican, liberal and conservative are really just damn words to me.
what a bunch of utter drivel!talk about DELUDED!i feel pity for you,i really do.you need some serious mental and spiritual help!
eyeswideopen,
Your right, I did say Repubs typically vote for tax cuts, with the word typical being the emphasis. They vote for across the board tax cuts whereas Dem typically only vote yea for low income (sometimes moderate income) tax cuts. Both parties typically vote yea for new taxes, or creative new ways to take monies out of every ones pockets. I am not going into all of the hidden taxes/tariffs/fess congress and senate impose and probably should have been clearer when I stated that so thanks for the clarifications. I was only referring to the straight tax cuts/breaks that are approved or not. Sorry for not being clearer.
eyeswideopen,
I forgot to say, if you look at historical data, which you did. Both parties seem to flip flop from time to time, changing places so the Dems of the early 20th century were actually the Conservatives, whereas the Repubs were the Liberals. I will never go that far back in history in reference to taxes, hell wasn’t it in the 50′s the highest tax bracket was 90%? I will also never go into corporate taxes, or anything other than personal income taxes as I am completely clueless and about as useful as a nun in a whorehouse outside the personal income tax information. The information you provided showed that the taxes were for a specific group of people, I was only speaking to personal income tax, which if I am not wrong any tax on a service a citizen gives is actually unconstitutional. I can’t be sure but I think it is in there somewhere. I really have to remember to be more specific with someone like you around eyes, your well I can’t think of a good enough word but you great. I may disagree on certain subjects with you from time to time, but you keep me on my toes, when I am being too general.
I say let the homos get married, so God will bring judgment, and get this over. When one turns away from the truth God will turn them over to a lie. It has to be this way, in the end times lawlessness will abound, they don’t know it but they the lawless and unruly men and women are prophetic, the Bible talks about them, we have a lawless govenment, unruly lifestyles, back biters, and all that is unholy, its happending right now, the Bible talks about all this, this is a countdown for end of this age. The clock is ticking. The midnight hour is here.
Jesus Christ gives every human the right to make a free will of choice ,but remember He will judge all humans for the choice they make. Anyone and every one that makes the choice not to follow the teachings of “Jesus Christ” and have refused to except His plan of “Salvation” have condemed them selfs into the “lake of fire” foreever and ever. Any man that will lead a Homosexual to think that Homosexuality (and those whom pratice it)will enter the Kingdom of Heaven ,will burn in “HELL” with them. Jesus warned the world that in the last days “women would desire women” and “men would desire men”,well it looks like we are in the last days before “THE RETURN OF JESUS to “RAPTURE” His true believers out of the coruption that people like Homo,s and their supporters are bringing upon earth.The sad part is ,JESUS CHRIST said I AM THE TRUTH and the “TRUTH” will set you free .When people like myself tell you the “TRUTH” you spit in our face and call us “HOLY’ER than THOU”, but you are really “SPITTING in the face of “JESUS CHRIST”. This life on earth(is for only a short time)and only gets us to the next life and it will be the one that will really count. Our next life will be forever (ETERNALLY),do you personally know where you are going to spend yours.You have to make that decision for yourself ,no one else can make it for you. Have you ever set and tried to figure out how long “FOREVER” is. Do you think (that for a few years of fleshly pleasure here on earth ) is going to be worth “BURNING IN HELL FOREVER. If any of you desire to really know the “TRUTH” ,then begin to read the book that is nothing but the TRUTH ,so help me GOD.
yep,JESUS IS LORD…PERIOD…END OF STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, burning in hell??? And you preach the Gospel of Love? You’ve been screaming all this crap about Punishment, Retaliation, Hellfire for ages now, for 2000 years in fact and the world is still a horrible mess. I’ve been hearing about this so-called Second Coming of Christ for decades and in fact the First Christians were already fully convinced he’d be returning on some cloud within their lifetime. What have we seen to date? Nothing, Nada. Merely a whole lot of ENDLESSLY REPEATED DUMBO RHETHORIC, pure Lies and Deception, solely to keep your own Fear of Death neatly at bay, and perpetuate your Sadistic Scare Tactics. But luckily millions of folk are seeing right through your right wing schemes, yes, down to the bottom of your moronic emptiness, the self-deceit that’s at the core of your brainless fuming. God, if (s)he exists at all, will just laugh at you and pity you at the same time for your foolhardiness. Read “A conversation with God” by Neal Walsh and you’ll know exactly what I mean. I’m not a believer at all, but that book really opened my eyes. It really turned me into a VERY HAPPY HOMO.
Oh, and if you want to have some real fun and a good laugh, read “The Gospel of the Second Coming” by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy. Absolutely hilarious !!!!!!!!!!!
ahh,the rambling ”wisdom” from a sodimite,why all the hate?your (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) seem to be full of hate as you folks use the word over and over,no matter how much you deny jesus….HE IS STILL LORD AND FOREVER WILL BE!you folks keep saying he doe’st exist,by the very act of denying his exsistance you prove he does exist,you can’t deny someone who doe’snt exist.just the fact that you get so stirred up about someone who you people say don’t exist you prove without a doubt he does!boy,are you people deluded!
Freddy, one thang for sure, JESUS CHRIST WILL GET THE LAST, LAUGH.
Frederick I would love to try to explain something here. It always bothered me too for the lack of understanding. In the following verse you will find that subject “Fig Tree” is actually Isreal,
If you read stating Matthew 24:32-35 you will see Jesus was talking about Israel coming back into existence. That within a generation of that happening, he will return. Now bare in mind that lengths of generation’s range from 40-60=80=and even a 100 years in the Bible. Israel came back into existence in 1 day (as foretold in the bible) on May 14, 1948 after over 2000 years. No nation in the history of this world has ever came into being in just 1 day let alone been prophecied that very event over 2000 years earlier and utterly and completly distroyed. He was not speaking of the people with him at that vert day.
Just thought you might find it enteresting that the very words you spoke here were Prophecied then also, that migh catch your ear. It’s about exactly what you said would be said just before he comes back. Is something like: Where is your God, we have heard of his coming since the days of ours fathers father day. They didn’t understand it either for they knew not the Lord. Without knowing him all of it is so very strange to us or at least it was to me, Do your soul a great favor and at least think about it. Please. You may not believe or love him but nome the less less he loves and knows Frederick H.
Yeah, keep feeding your DELUSIONS and your warped “Logic”. I’m not denying anything or anyone. The one simple point I’m making is: where’s your evidence, where’s your indomitable proof!!! You’re still waiting for some Second Coming after 2000 long, long, long years. Well, who’s the out and out Fool here? It’s quite alright with me if you want to go on believing in lame fairy tales and worn out myths and stick to the name calling. I’ve just got much better things to do. This is the Only Life I’ll be enjoying, so I’ll savor every single minute of it for as long as I can. If you want to waste your time spewing primitive wishful nonsense about heaven, hell, Jesus and what not, go ahead, be my guest. It’s your life, after all, not mine. We’ll see who’s got the last laugh, pal.
Frederick H. on a very serious note, it is sad to read the words of a
man that would CONDEMN HIMSELF. Good luck, Frederick H. on your beliefs.
know where the guy buddah is?mohhammid?and a host of others,there dryed out remains are STILL here,jesus body is not,when your laying on your death bed wheezing like a dieing animal from aids then you’ll remember your words as the spectere of hell looms before you.your time is coming bub,make no mistake!mock god then!!!i’m tired of you mocking my father and my savior,but as the man said,jesus WILL have the last say,”depart from me and when you find yourself being tormented in hell,you’ll wish a gazillion times you wouldah listened to us ”deluded” people!
This is one of the many reasons why more and more TRUE Conservatives and especially TRUE Christian Conservatives are leaving the GOP in droves. They are welcomed wholeheartedly in the Constitution Party where God’s Law and the Constitution have pre-eminence. Jerome Corsi and Ron Paul voted for Chuck Baldwin, the Constitution Party’s candidate in the 2008 election because there is nothing remotely Conservative about today’s Socialist-Lite GOP. The GOP could not even propose a law at the federal level when they held complete control to sanction only heterosexual marriage. They couldn’t even make English the official language of this nation when they held complete power! They never rolled back ANY of the Democrats’ Socialist agenda created since FDR because they have bought completely into this Socialist system themselves! With Bush’s TARP, 34 GOP Senators voted for it in the Senate (approx. 75%) and 91 GOP Congressmen voted for it in the House (approx 50%). This final vote took place on October 1st immediately bfore the October election recess. It was found shortly thereafter that $53,000,000 dollars made its way stealthily into the campaign coffers of both Democrats and Republicans who voted for that stinking Socialist monstrosity. This money was traced back to banking and securities firms on Wall Street. You can read about it in the book, “Meltdown”, by Thomas E. Woods, Jr., an Austrian economics professor. This book is endorsed by Ron Paul and exposes how both parties in collusion with the Fed and Wall Street have bankrupted this nation and made our recessions far worse than they need to be needlessly by artificially manipulating the free market. BOTH of these Socialist parties are guilty of FINANCIAL TREASON and should be perp-walked to the gallows; they make Madoff look like a novice! Both parties continue to engage in endless senseless wars of empire. We have American troops stationed in over 100 countries; this isn’t what our Founding Fathers ever intended; they were revolting from just such an Empire themselves and strongly encouraged avoiding foreign alliances. They would find both NATO and the UN revulsive. Neither the Dems nor the GOp has done anything about NAFTA; they have shipped over 300,000 American manufacturing jobs and many associated factories overseas, which is mindless insanity. In the event of a major war, could we ever retool in time with these industries gone??? This is suicidal insanity and TREASON of the highest order! Vote for the Constitution Party or continue to watch America slide into Revolution and Suicide!
Yeah Keith Elert, true Christian, man of Divine Love and Compassion. That’s how you fill your days and nights I gather, whishing for your fellow men to sink into your so-called pit of hellfire. Well, I can tell you millions of your fellow citizens are sick to their very bones of the lies and Neanderthal myths you’ve been spreading around for ages. Your Christian brothers are the most vile hypocrites roaming this earth (Remember, for instance, those two fellows Jimmy Swaggart and Jimmy Bakker?). They’re cheating on their wives, they’re the most abhorrent racists America has ever housed within its territory and these wolves are as money hungry and greed ridden as Bernie Madoff himself, to boot. Tell me about conservative Christians. Really the scum of this earth as far as I’m concerned. A disgrace to the country that considers itself one of the most enlightened and civilized places on this planet. You ask where yer Jesus Christ is? Well right up there in your warped mind. J.C.’s body won’t be found anywhere because the man himself NEVER EXISTED in the first place. It’s all fabricated fancy stories stolen from mythical material the Egyptians had already knocked together many, many centuries before the word Christ had even been invented. Go visit your local library and find out about the origins of the Jesus myth. You’ll be spending your time wisely for a change.
Frederick H. This will most likely open up a whole new can of worms! But your right on some of your comments. These holier than thou’s, run
more people away from Jesus, than they ever bring to him. They say they, love the sinner and turn around and tell em, that they are going
to hell. What a message, uh! If, they were people of love, they would
keep their mouth shut, and pray for the unbeliever, to believe. I used
to belong to a Pentecostal Church, for 7 years. Most, judgement people,
this side of hell. There’s more true brother-hood and love in a damn
biker bar, than in some churches and that’s a fact. Frederick, This is
a historical fact, Jesus gave his life (free gift) for all man’s flesh,
(sin),(sins of the world) one time only, for past, present, and future
sins of the believers. For it is written, that HE CASTS OUR SINS AS FAR, AS THE EAST, IS, TO THE WEST, NEVER TO BE REMEMBERED AGAIN.
Frederick, your right about Swaggart and Baker, and some preachers, for
the soul purpose is to make money off, the Blood of the Lamb of God.
If they believe in Jesus, dying and raising from the dead, then their
ticket has been eternally paid in full. Can’t NO MAN, NOR DEMON, NOR
ANGEL CAN CONDEMN ANY MAN. Only the man himself, can condemn himself, by saying Jesus is not the Christ. Frederick, sitting in my truck,
coming back from deer hunting, I said a prayer for you, and I hope &
pray in Jesus’ Name, it wasn’t in vain. No matter, what you say or
other people say, I believe by faith it wasn’t in vain. Have a good
day, Frederick.
actually jesus himself spoke of hell than he did heaven as he knew that it was a real place where many would end up even religious folks,especially religious people,but i guess in this ”politically correct” age hell or judgement is a taboo issue,as people won’t to avoid the issue,they would rather talk about gods love than hell and judgement which is fine to a point,but you have to realize there IS a hell and the judgement of god is a VERY REAL thing!to talk about one and leave the other out is just a sign of the times we are in,jesus said that people want to hear what their itching ears want to hear,jesus said hell enlarges itself daily to make room for those who are going there and he spoke of the FEAR of god very often.matter of fact gods word speaks of the fear of god very much,to not let sinners know that judgement awaits them and what will happen if they blatently ignore gods word and him then they rightfully deserve whats coming to them,the WHOLE WORD both love and judgement must be told,though in these end times the WHOLE truth will NOT be popular at all,people won’t to hear that god is a touchy feely individual that’ll say,”it’s okay,you can do whatever you want to,i’ll keep forgiving you,go ahead sin all you want,it’s okay.”
what a bunch of horse dookie!god is NOT to be played with!he said i am the same yesterday,today and tomorrow,he is STILL the same god who destroyed sodem and gommorah,brought the plagues on egypt and condemes and abhores rebellion in man,he won’t be mocked!yes he loves us,thats understood,but he WILL cast a person into hell for denieing him and rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft which is death!!!the WHOLE WORD must be preached,not PART of it.
SWAMPFOX, THIS IS THE WAY, I UNDERSTAND SALVATION. JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE
UP FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD. YES OR NO, I SAY (YES). THERE WERE TWO
THEIVES ON THE CROSSES, BESIDE JESUS, ONE ON THE LEFT AND ONE ON THE
RIGHT. YES OR NO, I SAY (YES). When you read the story, THE THIEF AT THE LEFT OF JESUS, SAID, IF YOU ARE WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE FREE US, AT
LEAST FREE YOURSELF. I would say the THIEF ON THE LEFT, (DIDN’T BELIEVE) YES OR NO, I SAY (NO). JESUS, NEVER SPOKE ONE WORD TO THE THIEF ON HIS LEFT (UNBELIEVER). THE THIEF ON THE RIGHT OF JESUS, TOLD THE THIEF ON THE LEFT, THIS MAN (JESUS) HAS DONE NOTHING TO DESERVE THIS, WE ARE GETTING ARE JUST REWARD AND THEN HE SAID TO JESUS, WOULD YOU REMEMBER ME? (BELIEVER) YES OR NO, I SAY (YES). JESUS, THEN SAID TO THE THIEF, TRULLY I SAY UNTO YOU, YOU WILL BE WITH ME AND MY FATHER IN PARADISE. I WOULD ASSUME THE (BELIEVER) IS IN PARADISE WITH JESUS.
YES OR NO, I SAY (YES). THEN, THERE WAS THE UNBELIEVER, I WOULD ASSUME
HE WENT TO HELL, YES OR NO, I SAY (YES). SO, MY QUESTION IS, SINCE THEY
WERE BOTH THEIVES, DID THE UNBELIEVER, GO TO HELL FOR STEALING OR HIS
UNBELIEF IN JESUS? I WOULD SAY HIS UNBELIEF. AFTER ALL JESUS WAS SHEDDING HIS BLOOD TO COVER THEIR SINS, YES OR NO, I SAY (YES). ONCE,
A MAN FALLS ON HIS FACE AND REPENTS OF HIS SINS, THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL
CLEAN THAT MAN UP IN DUE SEASON, (GOD’S TIMING) NOT MANS’. JESUS, SAID,
THE MAN WHO SAYS, HE IS WITHOUT SIN, HE IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT
IN HIM. I CAN’T SAY, THAT BECAUSE, I KNOW, I SIN IN SOME FORM OR THE
OTHER. THAT BLOOD COVENANT IS NOT A MINUTE BY MINUTE, OR DAY BY DAY.
IT IS FOR ETERNITY. YES OR NO, I SAY (YES). BELIEVE AS YOU UNDERSTAND, I DO.
BELIEVER, WENT TO HEAVEN WITH JESUS. YES OR NO, I SAY (YES).
i 100% agree with all your yes’s.
where did i say i want somebody to go to hell?well they mocked jesus for saying the truth and he said the same would happen to me and he said i would be blessed when i was mocked,so thanks for the blessing!i don’t expect the world to want the truth,as the world rejected my lord jesus i expect the same as well,so your scathing remarks are no surprise at all.heard it before anyhow many times,but sometimes there are those who…..listen.
Keith, I didn’t mention one name of anybody, telling anybody, they were
going to hell. I wrote, there are many, many self-righteous people out
there, telling people, how much they love and then turn around and tell
em, they’re going to hell. I’ve heard parents, tell their own kids, if
they don’t stop this or that, they are going to hell. Only Jesus, knows
who is a sheep or a goat. Not man. People, can not be saved by hate, fear or law, but only by Grace. I have never recalled, Jesus, personally telling anybody, they were going to hell. He said, go and sin, no more. I can’t speak for the self-righteous and lily-whites, only for myself, but I know, I sin everyday in one form or the other,
and if it wasn’t for the Blood of the Lamb of God and GRACE, I’d bust
hell wide open. The more, I understand, what a holy, sinless, man, Jesus is, and what he done for me, the more, I understand what a unclean man, I am.
As for the rest of the folks, they can believe how and what they wish.
That’s the freedom of GOD. That’s why here in America, we have so many
different churches and doctrines. Each, takes the word of GOD, and puts
their own spin on it. That’s why, I say, there is, only one right, JESUS CHRIST!
amen to that!was’nt bashing you,just explaining some people respond to different things,it was the fear of god that led me to accept jesus as my lord and savior,i have street witnessed many times over the years and spoke to many as the holy spirit prompted me to do so,some had to be told straight up where they were headed and some the holy spirit advised me to go soft.depends on the sinner and what direction the holy ghost leads me in for that particular individual.i have seen sinners accept christ both ways.i just follow what the holy spirit advises!
Keith, Good Deal! your a man of the cause. Jesus, said for us, to go
and spread the Good News, (Salvation). Feed the hungry, and cloth the
naked. That’s Love.
Fredrick if one puts his faith in man or a church he is in for heartache and so is the person that believed in that man who had his faith in the wrong place. In Revelation you find people in a church there that claim to be of Judah but are not. There will be a place resaved for them for all the pain they have brought to others and causing people to feel as you. We can’t make excuses for them the set in pew for reputations sake and people learn what he truly is. But for you not believe because of them I ask who it is hurting the most in the end. God won’t accept the excuse the devil and that fake made me sin. All discussion is over. You are either in the book of life or not. You brought up that Jesus forgive once and that is a pass till the end. But think Frederick If I steal from you and ask God to forgive me dose that mean I can rob you for the rest of my life because I asked him to forgive. Of course not. He forgave the woman at the well but some people seem to forget what his next words were, “go, and sin no more.” So the once saved always saved doesn’t wash with God.
Barbie, with all due respect, you may not be once saved always, saved!
but I am. What does wash with God is the eternal blood covenant, made by His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Once saved, you can’t wash that
Blood off. For it is written: I cast your sins, as far as the East, is to the West, never to be remember no more. As far as the woman at the well and many more, Jesus said go and sin no more. TRUE. I’m sure,
your earthly daddy, told you, you better mine. That, don’t mean he would burn you at the stake, if you didn’t. Point is, belief as you
wish, I do.
FLY OR FRY
TURN OR BURN
IT’S A NO BRAINER!
Guys, oh guys, we’re worlds, planets, galaxies apart. Keith and Dave appear to be staunch believers and I absolutely do not subscribe to any religious dogma at all. To me it’s all so totally speculative and anachronistic I’d really have to force myself to by that stuff. Why should I? I really don’t see the use. That should be hopelessly clear by now. But what the hell? Why should it be quite impossible to (at least somewhat) understand (and above all) fully respect each other? I can’t see the point of committing oneself to the task of bashing someone else (as I myself and you guys have been doing, in my opinion), simply because of their outlook on life. It´s all about reality, guys. Some are believers, some are not, some are straight, some are gay or bi, some are heavily conservative, others (such as myself) incurably liberal, etc, etc. It´s too banal to even consider seriously, I´d think. Anyway, I surmise that God, if (s)he exists, loves everyone of us unconditionally and, thus accepts us just as we are. If you want to tread in your “savior`s” footsteps, you “should” do likewise, don’t you think? That’s all there is to it, sweet guys. Food for contemplation!!!
Frederick, I not going to say, anybody is going to hell. Because, I can’t see the end of their road. But, I can say, hell is full of unbelievers and getting fuller by the second. Man, what you believe or
don’t believe is your bussiness. You, win this debate as far as I’m
concerned. If you feel lucky, throw the dice. I hope you hit the 7 or
11.
Oh, lest I forget: although I’m very critical of some of the content of Neal Donald Walsh’ books, some of the things “God” says in, for instance, “AT HOME WITH GOD”, do appeal to me. There’s no talk about heaven or hell, or whatever afterlife compartment. There’s just the “dictum”, that “EVERYONE WILL FOLLOW THEIR OWN PATH”. And that’s quite alright with “god”. No reward or punishment, but a simple facility to contemplate your past life (or lives) and see what more you want to learn during and from a next “incarnation”. Well, it remains to be seen whether such a thing as “reincarnation” exists at all, but the (fully non-judgmental) idea of life as an ongoing learning experience, appeals much more to me, would seem a much more mature concept than the whole notion of human existence as some sort of contest, at the end of which you’re either kicked into an eternal pit of misery (as if life weren’t fully miserable already!) or led into some sort of eternal garden of bliss (ugh, totally boring!!!). You get my drift, don’t you?
Fredrick though I may disagree with your ideology I totally agree that Religion is as much a path to self destruction as any other form of beliefs. Any form of government from Oligarchy to Monarcy, Theocracy to Dictatorship, Communism to Democracy or any combination of governmental styles can become corrupt, and will without the vigilence of the people to ensure it does not.
I wonder how many people who worship under Christianity know that the modern bible was partially voted on and created by pagan Romans. Oh yes some converted later but they were still worshiping Mars and Jupiter when they cast their votes. To your point Frederick I am with you that God(dess) will come to us in a way we can individually understand him/her, and that relationship we have is based on our understanding and not on the beliefs of any other person.
Too many people use ‘god’ in order to spread hate. Want proof ask any of the radical Muslim’s that want to destroy all of the people not of the Muslim faith why, I bet it is because you’re an unbeliever.
Try to remember that Jesus said to ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself’, once this happens then all your fears of that person go away.
We do love our neighbor. We would have to take this time trying to tell you how concerned we were for you and try to get open up to Jesus. Rather you think it is foolish or not. That is where all this coming from, a love for our neighbor, If we didn’t we would be calling you all kinds of filthy names and wanting to kicks some butts beyond all recognition, wanting to know where you live that we came and drag you out and kill you and hoping every single one of you hurry up and die of Aids and go straight to hell. But we don’t come at you like that. We come with love and all we get is being threatened to start murderous champagne to kill us, called filthy names and we do this all in the name of “LOVE THY NEIGHBOR.”
jesus said to love thy neighbor that dont me having sex with thy neighbor’s husband. if you are so intent on having same sex marriages then all i have to say is that the God you serve is the devil. YahWeh set the order for the union of male and female to reproduction of the human race, not for you people to proform pevertied sex acts. if that the way chose to live it’s your business.but you should not expect the intire population of this nation to go to hell with you. lets be real this country is headed for hell if we dont turn to YAWWEH’S divine order… i feel it’s my duty to tell you the whole Holy truth. the god you people are serving is satan… having sex with a member of the same sex my be pleasing to you and that’s for you to deside to are to be done. but as a civilize nation claming to be the most poweful in the world we are condeming our self when we support things that are not of YAHWEH… i pray every day that this nation will realize that it was YAHWEH that made it great and it will be YAH who will save it from the hand of satan… YAH’S will be done on earth as it is done Heaven. KUMBAYAH SAVE OUR NATION! WILL BE THE CRY OF THE PEOPLE
Fully agreed Rich. Religion has been (ab)used long enough as an excuse to harass, denigrate and persecute people who disagree and refuse to comply with “philosophies” they deem absurd, inhuman and belonging to a pre-modern, primitive, tribal era. Especially in a “enlightened” country such as the US freedom of (sexual) self-expression – within the boundaries of the law, of course – should be fully acknowledged and respected. What’s even more, this is the only option left for us in this country. Trying to force everyone into one and the same barrel amounts to tyranny and outright violent oppression. To me this constitutes the core difference between conservatism and (genuine) liberalism: to anyone their own as long as no OBVIOUS and objectively assessable harm to any party involved is being perpetrated.
To Michael King I’d like to say: Yah is an old Semitic, tribal god, who’s of no significance whatsoever for us 21st century citizens anymore. As the German philosopher Nietzsche once said, (orthodox, biblical) Christianity is a religion meant for slaves, for brain-dead zombies who’re unable to ascertain the quality of a particular doctrine for themselves. Well, Hallelujah, I couldn’t agree more strongly.
What one does in thier own home is their business. Why is it that every minority in the world wants to be recognized with special privledge.
Keep it to yourself and you will be fine!
Special priveledge? What priviledge? No, Sir, it’s quite simple: all we want is EQUAL RIGHTS, just plain and simple Civil Rights. If you yourself belonged to a so-called minority group, I’m sure you would claim and fight for your “Constitutional Rights”. You and I pay our tax dues, we’re hard working citizens, so we’re entitled to the right of lawful self expression. Nothing more or less. Think about it!!!
For thousands of years marriages were arranged by the heads of families to expand relationships and harmonious communities. Sons and daughters were paired off with the responsiblity to produce a family (children). Societies continued the practice of assigning responsibility to couples who could or would be expected to have progeny of their family, nurturing them, training them in skills useful for society and in MORALS needed for harmony in that society. Bills were issued as public notice assigning responsibility. A union of same sex is inherently barren and does not qualify. Marriage is not meant to legalize unnatural and often harmful sexual proclivities.
To quote Barney Frank, the openly gay Congressman: In which century do you actually live,Terence M. Garvey, Sir? Yes? OK, great, it’s the twenty first Century AD, Sir. So, we’re done now with arranged marriages. No more dumb pairing off, no more absurd interference from patriarchs or matriarchs for that matter. This is the USA, remember? Not Saudi-Arabia or friggin’ Yemen, thank the lord. Oh, and furthermore a same sex union is biologically barren by definition, but not (necessarily) psychologically or even spiritually. If you’ve been a lover of ancient history, as I was in higj school, you’ll probably remember the story of Alexander the Great, who was practically (not literally) married to his (male) Lover Hephaistion, but legally married princess Roxanne towards the end of his life. Same with the Roman Emperor Hadrian who was totally devastated when his dearest Lover Antinoüs drowned during a boattrip. So, same sex laisons are far from “unnatural”. On the contrary, they’re quite natural as long as both partners recognize them as an unalienable part of their very lifes. Voilà!
Gay marriage is wrong. If we allow this we are teaching our children that being gay is a normal and acceptable life style. The Bible teaches that this is wrong. In all of recorded time gay marriage has not, to my knowledge, been allowed. Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by God due to their homosexuality. Why is this suddenly acceptable in the last few years? This also explains why people are offended by the Bible and try to pass it off as a fairy tale. As it states in St. John 3:19-20, “And this is the comdemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” If you do things that are against the teachings of the Bible, then you have to pretend that the Bible is a lie, because it comdemns your lifestyle. For the same reason thieves generally steal under cover of darkness. If they are exposed to light someone will see them and they will be exposed and arrested. People want to commit sin and do wrong without feeling condemned, but it is impossible because God has left us commandments and a Bible that tells right from wrong. It is the evil that is in the heart of men that causes these things. Marriage should be between a man and a woman only. If you follow the opinion that anybody should be able to marry whoever they want to, then the next step will be people marrying animals or children. Listen to what God is telling us and live honorably and do the right thing!
To David Hall,
You wrote that Jesus said to “go and sin no more”, but you then stated that you sin every day in some manner. Did you not hear the words of Jesus? You do not have to continue in sin. As it says in 1John 3:8: /Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
George, like poor lost Freddy said, here we go again. George, Jesus said, quote: A MAN WHO SAYS HE IS WITHOUT SIN, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH
IS NOT IN HIM. George, Paul said, quote: THERE IS NOT ONE GOOD THING,
THAT DWELLS IN THE FLESH OF MEN. FOR THE FLESH PROFITS, NOTHING. I would tell you exactly were it is at in the Bible, but I’m not, because
it’s a good thang for folks to read and search for the truth. Sir, the
closer I get to the LIGHT, the more blots and blemishes and unperfections, I can see, in myself. That’s my opinion, I’m sure it is
not yours. AND,FREDDY SHUT-UP! GO DIG YOU A DAMN HOLE AND CRAWL IN IT.
MAN, YOU MAKE ME WANT TO PUKE, YOUR SO SCREWED-UP!
George, I almost forgot, food for thought. THERE IS ONLY ONE,
UNBLEMISHED, SPOTLESS LAMB OF GOD! JESUS CHRIST! NOT MAN.
AND, FREDDY, SHUT-UP AGAIN.
Will it ever stop? (Sigh,sigh,sigh). This endless nonsensical talk about sin, retaliation, repentence and all the other concepts the Churches have invented to keep a tight grip on their superstitious flock’s behavior? You contend that God is a god of LOVE. But all I hear and see you blathering about is sin and eternal punishment. Well, talk about primitive thinking. Maybe God him or herself sinned when (s)he decided to create the universe (including this horrible planet)solely to satisfy his/her own vanity. S(he) saw that all was well,huh, and was very pleased with herself, wasn’t she? And now we sentient beings have to suffer the consequences. Uggh!
Oh great Davey, you make my day. Thanks a billion for the fun. Yeah Davey, hard to stomach, eh, THE TRUTH!!! I’ll just repeat myself here for once and for your convenience: The God you say you’re worshipping SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST. Get over IT. YeS, there is SOMETHING, probably, keeping things running more or less nicely within our universe, but god, jesus, or some such fellow, no, they’re all as dead as doornails, to quote Charles Dickens. Don’t waste yer life with all this lame biblical rhetoric Davey. Please believe me, probably it’s the only life you’ve got. It would be such a pity to let it crumble and dwindle away in a whole lot of NEUROTIC FUSSING about sin and so-called eternal retaliation or reward. Grow up man, come to your senses. The universe is merciless: you’re born, you die and that’s it. Oh, by the way, I’ve got a very fine piece of wisdom for you, nicely connected to the debate we’ve been enjoying here for the past few months. And, Davey, it’s from yer very own Bible. What more do you want? So, here goes. You’ll find it in Ecclesiastes19-22.
* ……the same fate awaits man and animal alike.
* One dies just like the other.
* They are both the same kind of creature.
* A human being is no better off than an animal, because life has no meaning for either.
* They are both going to the same place – the dust.
* They both came from it and they will both go back to it.
* How can anyone be sure that a man’s spirit goes upwards while an animals spirit goes down into the ground?
* SO I REALIZED THAT THE BEST THING WE CAN DO IS TO ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE WORKED FOR.
* There is nothing else we can do.
* THERE IS NO WAY FOR US TO KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN AFTER WE DIE.
Well Davey, you see your very own Holy Book is encouraging to live my liberal life to the full and enjoy every minute of it as much as I can. And that’s precisely what you yourself “should” do, instead of fretting over all that crap about sin, retaliation, rewarding and what not. I’m presently reading a book by the title of “Untrain your Parrot”. It’s about the existential philosophy of Zen and it offers so much food for thought and exercises intended to keep you level-headed and fully “in the NOW”. It also teaches you that most of us are mere parrots, endlessly repeating the conditioned nonsense we’ve been fed during our younger years. I’m really enjoying it. It’s a godsend, so to speak…… See ya!
FREDDY, I’M SO HAPPY, I CAN MAKE YOUR DAY, I COULD GO AND BANG MY HEAD
ON CONCRETE. FREDDY, YOU MIGHT OUGHT TO STOP READING. YOUR LITTLE PARROT BOOK. IT MIGHT MAKE YOU FLY OR WALK BACKWARDS, BECAUSE YOUR SO
MESSED-UP, HELL, YOU DON’T KNOW, WHAT OR WHO TO BELIEVE IN. ALL THEM BOOKS YOU READ, THERE IS NO TRUTH IN THEM, JUST THEORY.
FREDDY, I KNOW, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU, AFTER YOU SUCK FOR YOUR LAST BREATH. WHY, BECAUSE YOU ONLY BELIEVE IN THE
THEORIES OF THE BOOKS YOU READ. IF YOU WOULD BELIEVE IN THE CREATOR,
THE ONE WHO CREATED, MAN, THE BOOKS, THE THEORIES AND EVERYTHING IN THE
FULLNESS, THERE OF. FREDERICK, ON THE CONTRARY, I KNOW EXACTLY, I MEAN,
I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME, WHEN I SUCK FOR MY LAST
BREATH, AND IT AIN’T THERE. IT’S CALLED FAITH, FREDDY. A SUBSTANCE, NOT
SEEN, BUT YET HOPED FOR. FAITH, NOT IN ME OR MAN. BUT FAITH IN THE
ALPA AND OMEGA! THE FIRST AND THE LAST, THE BEGINNING & AND THE END, THE I AM, I AM. YOU’LL NEVER HAVE SPIRITUAL PEACE, UNTIL YOU BELIEVE AND UNDERSTAND AND KNOW THAT, FREDDY, BECAUSE FREDDY, I KNOW WE CAN AGREE ON THIS (AIN’T NOBODY GETTIN OUT OF HERE, ALIVE). YOU KNOW THAT TO BE THE TRUTH.
Freddy, good words, I read Ecclesiates 3rd chapter, verses 18 to 22.
Fredderick this scripture is pertaining to the (FLESH) of men. The (FLESH) is meaningless. It only knows to enjoy (FLESHLY THINGS). The
(FLESH) KNOWS NOT, WHETHER THE SPIRIT OF MAN GOES UP OR GOES DOWN WITH
AN ANIMAL. OR BOTH GOES TO THE SAME PLACE. FOR IT IS WRITTEN: BOTH COME, FROM THE DUST OF THE EARTH AND BOTH WILL RETURN TO THE DUST OF THE EARTH! Here’s the little, (rabbit out of the hat trick) for you,
Frederick, but man’s SPIRIT AND SOUL (HEART) KNOWS THAT ALL FLESH RETURNS TO THE DUST IN WHICH IT CAME, and the SPIRIT AND SOUL OF THE
BELIEVER, RETURNS TO WHICH IT CAME, THE ALFA AND OMEGA, THE FIRST AND THE LAST, THE BEGINNING AND THE END, THE I AM, I AM, BY (FAITH)! Don’t
mock it Frederick, think about it, because when your mocking, your not
thinking.
Sorry to burst your bubble baby but the soul can never be destroyed. Nothing Father has ever created is ever destroyed. Check your science books. Matter can not be destroyed; it can be changed to the smallest particle atoms etc but never destroyed. Father said all souls are his. He made the soul to last for an eternity. The big question is, where will we be.
Barbie Doll, who said your soul can be destroyed, I didn’t. Although, the soul of the unbeliever will go to a place, where the sun don’t
shine. Draw, your own picture. Thank’s, for my science lesson. I agree,
100%, your spirit and soul will last for eternity.
So sorry David, That reply was for Freddie. But at 62 yrs old and kinda new at this blog stuff, I must have clicked on the wrong person. I know exactly where you stand and its Love, Grace and Forgiveness. God Bless You David. As Paul would say, keep up the GOOD FIGHT. We will be judged severely if we don’t try every way possible to try to open eyes to the way of THE LORD. I just wish they would seek the Lord not listen to just us. Father will can explain all show all save all. But until they seek Him they will not listen to us. We are their enemy. We make them think and that is painful to them. We know, we were all sinners once and until the Holy Spirit gave us, what I called, my God head slap, I wouldn’t listen either. They had no right to judge me. I am so thankful that the Holy Spirit didn’t give up on me as man did. It is my prayer today that the Holy Spirit will convict them so badly that they have no where else to turn but to Him. AMEN. That they say: “God I don’t know if you are even there or not but all those nutty sick Jesus freaks out there say you are and if you are I ask that you show me and help me with my life. I don’t want to go to hell. Please father, show me the true way.” Then they and God will take it from there. They think it’s our agenda to get them to see the truth but it is Gods. I can’t believe they could think we and martyrs all through time would go through all the Chris train hate crimes, the crude blasphemes jokes against God and us, spit on, tortured and murdered and many more will be in the future. And knowing this we choose to go on knowing that someday it (not may but) will cost us our very lives just trying to get one of them to the Soul Saver, Jesus Christ…But at the end of days, if I can look up and see just one of these peoples face beside me getting their Crown of Glory, It would be well worth anything we could ever suffer on this earth. AMEN. Getten’ off my soapbox now. Lol Blessings in Christ to you David.. Enjoy The Crown..
Freddy, Sorry to burst your bubble baby but the soul can never be destroyed. Nothing Father has ever created is ever destroyed. Check your science books. Matter can not be destroyed; it can be changed to the smallest particle atoms etc but never destroyed. Father said all souls are his. He made the soul to last for an eternity. The big question is, where will we be.
Barbie, Ma’am, thanks for your kind words. I wasn’t really sure, if your comment was for me, my mistake. Although, I did AGREE, with ya!
Have a Great Day! D. H.
Well Davey this “scriptural passage” is full of irony and mockery itself, if you care to read between the lines. In fact it’s all about those vain, self-righteous believers, who’re boasting about their faith and keep proclaiming the certainty of God’s reward for the “pure at heart” do-gooders. But what Eccl. is saying here is, PLEASE DON’T BE SO SURE about your post-mortem fate. Don’t count on all the stories you’ve been told about your chances to be “saved” and enjoy that so-called eternal bliss. Might very well be TOTAL Illusion, Maya as the old Hindu philosophers wrote in the Mahabaratha.
As it says in that Eccl piece: THERE IS NO WAY FOR US TO KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN AFTER WE DIE.
You’re playing Russian Roulette with yer life Dave. All your pious words are just puffs of empty air, based on purely wishful thinking. This is not mockery Dave, it’s rock hard reality: if you don’t want to reflect critically on what you read, you’re nothing more than a gullible fool who thinks that something most be wholesome and tasty just because it looks so good and tasty. Uh, uh, Dave, use yer precious brain wisely for a change, think for yourself, try to see the relativity and factual uncertainty of all that you’ve been counting on to date. It’ll do you tons of good!!!
(Words Removed for Offensive Content)
ONLY THE UNBLEMISHED BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD. Like, Jesus said, They
only see the speck in someone elses eye and can’t see the blots in their on eyes. Have a Great Day, Freddy.
Well, Freddy, I guess you win our debate. My paragraphs was removed. For what I don’t know. I never wrote one curse word and only called your buddy a nut-case. I guess, it’s o.k. you called me a fool, which it is o.k. with me. I dish it out, and I’m a big boy and can take it.
You, wrote I played russian roulette and I tryed to explain how, I think you play russian roulette. I get all my explanation get wiped-
out. MAYBE, WHO EVER IS IN CHARGE OF WIPING PARAGRAPHS IS AN ATHEIST.
IF NOT, IT IS STILL VERY UNEVEN PLAYING FIELD.
One thing I thought I might find here, I do from time to time from people like eyeswideopen, is logic and thought in their comments, rather than blind faith or lack of thought. All of this talk on what the bible says or does not say is crap. Why? Simply put, what version of the bible are you referring to the King James, the New American, etc etc. They all say basically the same thing I will attest to but being that not all words translate directly from Hebrew or Latin to English and can be taken in different way depending on the translator, they are slightly different in message and theme at times.
Start thinking for yourself rather than quoting a book voted on by pagens in the 2d century AD (may be off a bit but right around that time period) to become the definitive bible. Oh yes pagens had a vote as to what would and would not be in the bible. If you don’t believe that ask a bible scholar or look it up, you might be surprised at what you learn.
The trouble, Barbie baby, is that we really don’t know what the “soul” is, if it exists at all. How would you define this (probably imaginary) entity? Is it a clump of energy inside the physical body or surrounding the body? What are its properties precisely and how can we investigate them? You talk about matter that cannot be destroyed. Fully agreed. But, once again, should “the soul” be considered a “material entity”? How do you know this? Besides, matter may be indestructible, but consciousness surely isn’t. As far as the body is concerned, conscious depends on the (anatomical) structure of the brain, the electrical activity surrounding the brain, as well as its biochemical make-up. But perhaps we can safely say that the soul, should it exist must be of a fundamentally different nature and its supposed “consciousness”, if inherent to its existence, must also be quite differently constituted. Now, as a matter of fact the truth about the soul has never been reliably established by scientists. We can merely speculate about its alleged nature. (Particularly orthodox) theologians, of course, are totally convinced of the veracity of its substance. But all they can come up with as to the validity of the notion, is a string of scriptural quotations. Not compelling enough, not by a long shot, I’m afraid. Perhaps the riddle will never be solved satisfactorily. In this connection I’d like to refer to a story included in the book about Zen I’m presently reading. One day a Buddhist monastery novice asked his superior what he thought really happens after we die, to which the master responded, smiling, well, why don’t you asked the dead, they should know, shouldn’t they….
about 35-30 years ago there was a dying man that agreed to go through a science experiment by a very elite research team having very respectful credible credentials. As he was dying he lay on a table with many witness in a hospital hooked up to very sophisticated scales. After the man took his last breath on this earth we saw the weight on the scales go down immediately about 2 or 3 ounces. I can’t remember the exact weight now. But the questions are, what weighed 2 or 3 ounces and where did it go. There may be a logical earthly explanation for that. Other than it could have been the soul but I am not educated enough to come up with any other than what they came up with, the soul left its earthly body. You may find video on the web somewhere; All I can tell you is what I saw, And I forgot your other subjects, Just getten’ too old. :>)
Barbie, your exactly right about that. I believe, it is 4 ounces. Little babies have pass, saying, weighing 5 lbs. 4 ounces. Then, shortly, after reweighing the baby, weighs 5 lbs. Once a pony time,
the wise men of the world, thought the world was Flat, until Columbus,
had a brain-fart and read his bible, then he knew the world was round.
Once a pony time, the wise men of the world thought there was only one
galaxy, (Milky Way). After, God gave them the wisdom to invent a better
more bigger, more gooder, more powerful, tel-le-scope, a scientist stood on world T.V. scratching his head, saying (WOW)! If, he would have bought him a 20 dollar Holy Bible, he could have read when God,
said, Let there be Light, and Light was. God, never said, Light, Stop.
That’s not blind Faith as Nut-case wrote, it’s a fact! The unlearned
men as myself know it and the wise men of the world know. The difference is I’ll admit it, they won’t, it would make them look stupid
in the eyes of the world.
Barbie, I most likely will get these comments WIPED-OUT! It maybe to
HARSH for the unbelievers. I wrote it as sweet as I could.
Thank you David for your comment. I hope nobody takes our comments off. If just one person lets something take root in their heart before they do that would be a glorious thing to Father. Nothing happens by chance not even this blog. I have to believe that our words here will not go on unheard by someone that Father wanted their eyes to see. Father will take care of the rest from there. We’ll take the abuse and continue are prayers for them. . In the mean time we will be about our Fathers business throwing out seed wherever we go.
God Bless you David
If anyone wants to contact me personally they can do so at: hoffman24@hotmail.com
The republican party has both conservatives and libertarians within the tent so that social issues will always have some disagreement, Nevertheless, the party has always stood for traditional values and should stand by their current platform. It is, however, at this point in time, not the major issue facing this nation. The Obama administration with the help of progressive dems in congress, is bent on destroying this country with their health care and cap and trade bills to name a few. The republicans need to stop this nonesense and return the country to a solid footing toward prosperity with sound tax policy to create jobs and an energy policy that will create jobs, address national security issues (drill now here) and move us toward alt fuels in transportation, power generation etc. The dems have drawn a line in the sand regarding the social issues and chosen to be the party of death – let them have it and continue to fight for respect for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as the Founding Fathers envisioned.
Ya know during the 2008 campaigns my husband I (Independent Voters) were really torn as to who to vote for and almost made up our minds for mr obmama. He sounded so good and fluffy etc. Then a few night nights later we saw him turn his back to the cameras and turned looked at the audience behind him and said without any emotion what-so-ever, he would not want his babies to be punished by having a baby and would want them to have an abortion. My husband and I just looked at each other in disbelief and we knew there and then that a man that could murder his own grandbabies would have no problem murdering any body anytime anywhere that interfered with their plans in any way. We saw the evil in his soul and voted Rep. As time went on we saw more and more of the same. God help the USA !!!!
It seems strange to me, That gays are allowed to disrupt church services with vulgar language and actions and anyone who speaks out about it is “intolerant”. I had a cousin who was gay,now dead at 40 years old because of personal choices. I have no problem with someone being a “fruit of the womb” as he used to say, but there is no natural reason for it, if there were they would have the means to reproduce without reverting to heterosexuality. As for marriage,its purpose is to provide a stable environment to raise the next generation which various policies of Governments are making increasingly difficult. Gays can inherit or provide for partners after they die by contract and if they are smart they will.
I know I am getting into this conversation a little late, but I feel that I can still throw in my two cents. I’ve seen a lot of hate being thrown around on this board, and I don’t feel right about that. Hostility isn’t any way to understanding. First and foremost, I am gay. I just wanted to say that so that anyone who reads that knows that I have a horse in the race.
Secondly, so you know where I’m coming from, I don’t think that homosexuality is a disease, an abomination, or a byproduct of a poor upbringing. I don’t think that it can be cured, and if it could, I wouldn’t want to be because I like who I am. Several studies have shown that homosexuality happens all over the animal kingdom, right down to a pair of penguins who raised an adopted chick together. It is not as unnatural occurrence as some would have you believe.
I understand where many people on this board are coming from. With a person holding Christian beliefs and witnessing the way popular culture and legislation have become radically more accepting homosexuality, conflict must inevitably occur. In the context of American history, this is all happening very quickly. It was near a hundred years between the time that slaves were freed and given the right to vote and the time that those laws were actually enforced. The “fine line we must tread,” Ms. Jo Anna H. spoke of at the top of the page, between a Christian’s understanding of biblical text and Jesus’ teachings of tolerance and kindness have created much disagreement and strife within the Christian community. Likewise the Republican Party, to which this board originally pertained.
Dick Cheney should have a particularly difficult struggle with this, as he is a staunch conservative, a right wing Christian, and the father of a lesbian daughter. He, for a time, must have been enormously conflicted between his sense of right and wrong and his love of his daughter and hopes for her happiness. Obviously he has come out of this with an opinion.
Many people have asked on this board if we gays can’t just be happy with the civil unions we can get and leave marriage alone. There are two answers to this. First, most states do not recognize civil unions. Only eleven states and the District of Columbia recognize civil unions. The federal government does not, and the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) specifically relieves states of the responsibility to recognize one another’s civil unions. Secondly, no, we can’t. It is not intended to be an attack on Christianity (unfortunately, some in our camp have turned it into just that), it is a struggle for the rights hat we feel we are entitled to. In order for the desire for same sex marriage to be an attack on Christianity, marriage would have to be an exclusively Christian institution. This is not the case. Marriage was around long before Jesus, Abraham, or any other “Founding Father” I can name. In history, every time an explorer or anthropologist discovered some new tribe hidden on a remote island or nestled between the valleys of nowhere, that tribe would have their own version of marriage.
The issue of same sex marriage has, in the last few years, been somewhat hijacked by people with an anti-Christian mentality. I think that some of this mentality springs up as the result of a perceived persecution by Christians, as other religions have not been likewise targeted. It does need to be said that not all of this perceived persecution is entirely make-believe. Since Christians and gays are two of the most influential voting groups in America, it has resulted in a horrendous clash.
To close, I would like to state that tolerance is a two way street. I’m gay, and you can hold issue with that. I’m OK with that, so long as you can be just as OK with me.
In our marriage vows there is a statement; “What God has joined together”. It’s that line we can not turn over to the gay society as it is ingrained in every true child of God that sodomy is a sin. I don’t see how they could ever ask us to say, No God, They have that right. I can sincerely see why they would want and sincerely believe they fall in true love just as we do. But in the end we can not go against our God. I wish I could cross my arms, nod my head and blink my eyes and all this would just go away. But it won’t. We Christians are blamed for all the negativity against the homosexual but it is not just us. Most of the secular world is against it also but yet the gays attack us as if we were the only villains in town. True Christians are a rare breed anymore so it can not be us holding them back. Shoot, there are gay clergy and churches popping up everywhere so it can’t be us holding them back. Other than you, most have treated us horrible here and they don’t realize that people that may be leaning in sympathy for you they may be turning away completely.
After seeing how the behave. Yes there are a few, a very few, here that were rude toward them but for the most part the others were just explaining why we felt the way we do but most of the time we have to defend ourselves.
Bernie – nice post. Also, don’t forget – women didn’t get to vote either – glad we can now.
Here is just one of thousands of reasons why gay marrage should not be allowed. With this type of behavoir what else could happen if theconcerned voters gave just an inch to this type of behavoir. None of the is sane socialable behavior..Jan 9, 2009 … It was no different at the Toronto Gay Pride Parade. … of public sex on a municipal street while police officers, on foot and bicycle, … and anal sex between men and men urinating on each other, among other activities. … the ‘same-sex marriage’ crusade in California by illegally issuing ‘gay …
stephenboissoin.blogspot.com/…/san-francisco-fest-features-public-sex.html -
3 police officers had to hire attorneys because if they refused to report to a gay pride (which is really stretching the word “pride”. They have absolutely NOT ONE FIBER of pride in them) parade because in the past they had been urinated on spat on and to not start a riot of a group on insane (people?), turn a blind eye to every type pf perversion known to mankind. By the way, THE WON and never had to go lay their eye on such filth again. Praise GOD.
People who are behaving like that in public put a stain on normal gay people everywhere.
Also, I just checked out this Americans For Truth website, and must say that any source of information with such a clear and announced agenda should be beheld with a wary eye.
I agree. But on the blog about the 3 police officers was totally true. Secular people and churches both were taking up collection to pay for their attorneys. You have to agree that when non-gays see such behavior it truly hurts their cause. It’s like in -your-face stuff and that’s wear it stays, right in our face then they expect regular folks to forget that and take them serious. My husband has 2 gay nephews and for the most part they act civilized lol. They know I’d killem’ if they acted like that. Do we love them? YES dearly. Do we ever speak of them negatively? Decently not, not even behind their backs. Why? They show respect and they get that in return. My very default Christian 82 yr old mother-in-law almost took her 25 yr grand daughter outside at Christmas time just for starting a negative sentence about them :>) we don’t mess with Granny Hoffman lol.
Sorry Boys. I mean to type: Do we ever speak of them negatively? Definitely not, not even behind their backs. Why? They show respect and they get that in return. My very devault Christian. My glass, brain, and my silly spellcheck is to darn small lol
Rodin,
America was founded on Christian principles which had been rooted in America’s past for well over 100 years prior to the American revolution. There are many history books which document the Christian culture of America’s religious evolvement into nationhood. I’m not too surprised you’re ignorant of this because as Darlene points out, we American’s are collectively exceedingly ignorant of those values which built the spirit that our nation was founded upon. Gay marriage should pave the way for polygamy, or would you discriminate against polygamy but not gay marriage? Where then after that? The opinion expressed by more than one of our founding fathers was, if we fail to proceed as a Christian valued nation, the great experiment of America will fail. They understood what you can’t grasp. If you could grasp this concept I suppose you’d come to a different conclusion about Christianity. That’s the reality of America today.
Oh Barb, please, do me a favor, please let your precious brain rattle, if only for once. Should something, anything be true, simply because It’s written somewhere? Your bible merely presents PSEUDO truths that is to say, things you endorse and subscribe to solely on account of your faith, your belief in a certain type of authority. As the god you say you worship has no authority for me as a liberal citizen whatsoever, I cannot agree with your point of view regarding the special meaning of heterosexual marriage. Its special meaning rests wholly and exclusively on its agreement with traditional, orthodox notions, which may have been considered of universal significance in the 19th and early 20th century, but not now anymore, as we write November 2009. So, wake up Barb, “What God has united” is nothing more than old and thoroughly worn and tattered rhetoric. Come up with something much more original and up to date, please. The world has indeed changed, Barb, since the 1950s and is still changing, and changing very, very rapidly. If you hadn’t noticed then you’re really getting old, old and weary!!!
Oh yes, as for that “experiment” (35 years ago……) concerning the soul’s weight? You really made me laugh. Do you really consider this single experiment worth the effort of even mentioning? Is this what you call “impressive statistics”. You don’t recall anything about a decent follow-up? Good graciousness, that whole 3 or 4 oz might just have been some gaseous matter that went right up into thin air after that poor man (or was it a woman?) drew his/her last breath. No, no you’ll have to come up with something much more convincing to have me believe that ridiculous nonsense about the soul’s solid weight!
Frederick – the soul’s weight info that I found while looking – just for fun… was an experiment that took place in 1907 and interestingly enough – Dan Brown did a variation of it in his latest book. So perhaps that has become a “fact” rather than a fictional account in a book.
Lol Hi Frederick. I’ll do my darnest to reply to all your comments if I can remember them all, you know, with my old age an all. (1.) As the god you say you worship has no authority for me.>> my God is sorry you feel that way. And someday you can tell him that yourself. (2) I cannot agree with your point of view.>>> I’m not asking you to agree. I know you never could. And that is fine. I am here merely to try to explain why I could not ever vote for it. You have ever right to do the same. (3). So, wake up Barb, “What God has united” is nothing more than old and thoroughly worn and tattered rhetoric. Come up with something much more original and up to date, please. The world has indeed changed, Barb, since the 1950s and is still changing, and changing very, very rapidly. If you hadn’t noticed then you’re really getting old, old and weary!!!>>> I am wide awake thank you and your thoughts do not change reality. Folks don’t want to and probably never except a gay marriage. It’s been voted down time and time again. I know you want it and if I were in your shoes and had no fear of God, I’d probably want it too. But I’m not and I do and I don’t. And I will fight against all that is not the will of my Father till the day I die. Too bad for you. I plan on living a long long time just to make people like Frederick H crazy. lol.
Where was I, oh # (4) forgot there for a sec. lol Oh yes, as for that “experiment” (35 years ago>>>> If you think the human body could ever hold 4lbs of gas then you far far less intellent than I had previously given you credit for. Did you forget to go your grammar school science classes? When you stand in front of your maker I am sure he will give you the education you lack here.
Sorry Barb dear, didn’t mean to offend to in any way, but I do think everyone of us has the right to speak out about what they believe is pure crap and superstition. Of course you’re entitled to your conviction that you’ve been blessed or saved by the lord, or whatever, but then again I’ve always been wondering how you Christians know precisely when you’re being tested by god. For the thing is that whenever hardship befalls Non-believers you’re often very quick to say “it’s god’s wrath, punishment or some such idea”. But as soon as hard times are upon a devout person you come up with the notion that “the lord” is just testing the individual in question. So, once again: how can you be so sure? I don’t suppose believers are still being visited by angels carrying messages from up high, or are they? Well, I gather you just feel such things rumbling there within your bones. Lucky you. For me, who was, by the way raised in a straight-on Methodist home (my father even wore a clergyman’s collar, yes, yes), god, if he exists at all, must be “anything” but some sort of Santa Claus, who’s going to take care of your big, small and middle-sized worries. If that were the case he would have minded those poor children transported off to the concentration camps in Germany during the war or the millions of Christian children and mothers dying in Africa these days, not even from HIV/AIDS, but purely from malnutrition. Yeah, think about it. Go tell those poor Africans (and Latin-Americans, for that matter), that the lord loves them very much and he’s got something glorious for them in store: eternal life in heaven….. If I were in those poor sods’ shoes I would kick you off my dusty yard as quickly as one two three, I can assure you. Think about it.
Oh, about those gaseous lbs you mentioned. Well, if you care to reread my previous post, you won’t find anything about lbs there, dear! I only said the results MIGHT have been caused by emission of some 3 or 4 OZ (=OUNCES) of gaseous matter. MIGHT. And a lb should be quite a bit more than those few ounces Barb. Agreed??? Please forgive my cynicism.
I am sorry about the LBS thing. It was late and I am old. Please forgive the error. B-U-T, SWEET SWEET SWEET Freddy, God has never delivered wrath upon his people anywhere in history. But it does rain and the sun does shines on both the righteous and unrighteous. I was converted way back in the 60,s but a short time later I left and I never look backed. Don’t think for one minute it was due to my age because I almost died in Aug 2001 and was life lighted to hospital. You’d think that would make me a wee bit concerned about my soul. But, Nope, not at all. I woke up one morning, 9/11/2001 saw that plane fly into that building I went straight into another heart attack. (Heartbreak can cause a heart attack.) I used to laugh at Sanford & Son when he used that but never believed it could possibly happen. They could not fly me out that day as it was NO FLY all over the U.S. They finally got me to the hospital 30+ miles away mostly driving in the ditches in the squad as all the roads were backed up due the confusion and panic. I was almost lost again. Did that make me rethink my situation? Not a chance. Father was a million miles away from my thought even after all that. Then an event happened that made me see where I stood. I can’t speak of the people in India etc. All I can do if send up prayers and give some money to help them. You or I can do nothing more. I wish thing were different. But Adam & Eve really had a good thing going but they were not strong enough to stand against Satan. This was not God’s plan for us. We messed it up and knowing mankind as we do if they hadn’t messed it up then Frederick and Barb would have. As I write this my eyes are filled with tears Fred. Because you have no idea how much God loves you and all you have to say is “I’m your Jesus.” He will help you with every other thing in your life. You will never ever walk alone again in this world or the next. Do I believe this? NO, I Know it. I can not prove it to you. No, I can only tell you what and why I believe as I do. Just like you and most every other human being on the earth we’re just trying to get through this life the best we can. You mentioned your parents. Did you ever except Jesus? It’s just you and me here . You can admit it if you did, did any of your father’s teachings tough your heart?
Love, Barb
Well Dave, We’ll just have to agree to disagree. Just please don’t call me fifty names.
You may be right but I’m not gonna hang my salvation on that hook. If I sin against our Father I’ll be on knees before I take my next breath.
God Bless ya all over the place
MA’AM, SAME GOES TO YOU! MAY THE LORD BLESS YOU, COMING IN AND GOING OUT!
FOR DAVE HALL: Hi again Dave. Bible Study Time: Lol About our discussion earlier this month…Gal 5:17-21 where Paul is talking to the new gentle Christians. I see what you say then I read this and now I’m not sure which to believe.
Sorry Frederick, Our Constitution came directly from Mt. Sinai. That is what our laws are founded on. Thou shalt not kill etc. For the record I have not been a Christian all my life. In fact for the better part of it I wasn’t. Even then been part of the secular part of the population I was not in favor of indorsing anything of a gay nature due to their behavior. The ones were very crude and foul in their public actions. You don’t reutilize how that type of craziness sticks with straight folks. Check out my links above. Its pictures like that which makes us not want to put forth any respect for their wishes. Just food for thought.
Sweet Fredrick I do not or ever have claimed to be able to prove to anyone the existence of the soul God or Jesus. I guess dear, that is where faith comes in. But personality things have happened in my long long life that if I were to tell you, you would not believe me. I lost my son 3 times in 1 day when an 83 yr old lady was going the wrong way on RT23 and hit him head on. They told me there was no hope for him. I know Father answered my prayers. They said he’d never ever walk again. He is walking, not well, but he walks. I lost 3 of my
babies and I lived. I lost my first grandson to SIDS and yet I lived. I was molested my more people than I have fingers as a child before the age of 6. I lived I tried suicide 3 times, doctors brought me back. Now if anyone should have the right to believe there is no God, it is I!! But he loved me and had plans for me and many more miracles were yet to happen that you or no one else would believe except my friends and family that witnessed them. So you or no one else on the face of this earth could ever in a gazillion years convince me there is no God and that he doesn’t love us all !!!!.
Freddy, How can a rain cloud, stay up in the air, when it has rain
(weight) in it? I’ve been scratching my head for years, over that one.
Even after it rains, the cloud passes and is still up there. Go figure.
There is weight in a cloud, just like there is weight in my soul.
No, no the reality you describe is not the reality of America today. The reality you picture is that of many, many decades ago as I pointed out above already. The Founding Fathers (how about our precious Founding MOTHERS??) have been dead and gone for centuries now. They’re not of very much significance for us anymore these days. We live in a ‘GLOBAL VILLAGE” as folks say nowadays. It’s over and done with the cozy, provincial America you perhaps were born into. This is a new era, an entirely new Millenium with demands on our hands those Founding Fathers of yours had not the slightest inkling about. Get over ‘em.
Freddy, what is your punch line? Are you saying we should do away with
our U.S. Constitution? Correct me if I’m wrong, but if it is so, that
you’ve made the point, that your are Anti-Christ, Anti-American, Anti-Morals. About the same characteristics as Adolf Hitler. Um! interesting, and YOU KNOW WHAT’S BEST FOR AMERICA. Freddy, have you ever been fishing, and looked down in your bucket of worms and watch em, crawl around, you ought to, very interesting, you might learn something to add to your great wisdom. There’s real hope for ya, boy.
Ah Davey, two of a kind ain’t they, your Bible and the American Constitution, right? It’s god himself who wrote the Constitution, right? Not a letter will have been changed in, say, 500 years from now, right? That is, if mankind (including us Americans) is/are still inhabiting this planet, which I seriously doubt, considering the rate at which, especially conservative Americans are trying to destroy this beautiful planet and its resources with, for instance, their endless drill, baby drill, so in about two decades from now not a drop of oil will have been left.
Well, no Davey I’m certainly not saying we should do away with the Constitution, but as it’s not a text delivered by Gabriel or one of the other Archangels, a partial revision at least should in principle be possible at any time. (Happens every now and then in some civilized, Western countries, Davey, so why not in the US?). Furthermore, Davey, the constitution, any constitution, has little to do with “morals” or morality as such, but much more with the relationship between Government (the State and its rules, regulations and demands) and individual citizens and their needs and demands. The main function of the constitution is to protect private persons (and groups, if you like) from undue interference in their lives by governmental representatives. So, no Davey I’m most certainly not against any constitution, but for me the Constitution is not at all a text “written in stone”, such as the commandments Moses allegedly brought back from Mount Sinai. Every generation can and should, perhaps even, question and reassess its functionality. In our day and age, for instance, the functionality of the Second Amendment (concerning the bearing of arms) is once again heavily disputed (as it has been in the 19th and 20th centuries) and as far as I’m concerned rightfully so. But this is a matter entirely out of order here, I’m afraid. Anyway, Davey, to be sure, I’m glad we do have such a thing as a constitution, but to me it’s most certainly not an Idol (in the original sense of the word, that is).
Well, what do you know Freddy? There is something in this big world, we
can agree on. I tell ya, man, my little brain is out there, I think, I’m having an out-of-my-body experience. Your not against the U.S.
Constitution, and neither am I. I’m going to re-read your comment, you
know I’m kinda slow and probably misunderstood or mis-read you. You, know, I’m one of those ole Christains, so I can call it a miracle. Ain’t that something?
By the way, libertytrain, did you like Dan Brown’s latest? The Davinci Code’s been hopelessly hyped up, so I didn’t even get around reading that one. Now there’s been much talk about The Lost Symbol here in my area lately. A must read, some of my friends are telling me. But I’m not so sure.
Frederick H – I don’t get to read all that much at the moment – but had been looking forward to it. Found it enjoyable for most of it, then near the end, I thought it was too predictable, but I was wrong. So it was fine. I don’t know that it was incredible but as pleasant as his other stuff, just a different subject – sort of.
I am a registered republican, a Christian and consider myself to be very conservative. I’m a white male and have been married to my wife for 20 years. We have two wonder kids, 15 and 18. However, I support Gay rights. Perhaps this is partially because I have gay friends, and gay family members. But ultimately, I view this issue as a matter of basic human rights. I recognize marriage as a binding agreement between a man and a woman, both in the eyes of God as well a legal contract as recognized by our states. That said, can we not be open minded to allow Gays to enter into a similarly legal agreement? It can be called something other than “marriage,” but would give same sex couples the same rights as married couples.
Chaney has a homosexual daughter so it is understandable that he might be sympathetic to gay marriage, thought badly mistaken. One can be respectful of the person and sympathetic to the desires and needs of the homosexual without compromising principles of life and governance. Marriage is and has been traditionally considered a union between a man and a woman. It is recognized by the State because of the legal ramifications of such a union and given tax breaks because of the further recognition that the traditional family is the foundation of a society and should be encouraged. Government can also consider giving homosexual rights and privileges that it deems in the interest of the State and/or the person. However, to change the definition of “marriage” is non productive and disengenuous. It does not add to the life of the homosexual either but does denigrate society. Only the miscreats and their misguided idea of political correctness would consider this kind of distortion of principle on society. These type of misguided and “patent democrat party” consessions do not lead to any advantage for a republican candidate.
As a christian who does not accept homosexuality as anything but a poor choice, I say yes to them marrying. Just substitute the word marriage for a new word. They can have the benifits of heterosexual marriage without misuse of the word. Surely some bright gay guy or lesbian can make up a sound for this new word.
The words “marriage, marry, married”, and so on, are common and defined as a union between one man and one women.
Sexuality (homo-, hetero, bi) is not something you buy in a store or ask a doctor to fix for you Rowbaby, if you didn’t already know!!! You don’t chose your sexual preference as if it were some sort of commodity, OK? So, choice is hardly an appropriate qualification here. Sorry. Furthermore I agree with you that the notion of marriage would seem totally torn and tattered in our day and age. Frankly I don’t quite understand my gay brothers’ and sisters’ motives for wanting to commit themselves to such a total anachronism. I’m thoroughly enjoying my “civil union status” granting me and my lover the right of mutual inheritance and protecting us from the hands of greedy relatives who might be eager to rob the surviving partner of his precious possessions and his late lover’s pension. And, oh yes we’re up now for adoption of one or two children. But don’t worry too much; I think I’ll have second thoughts when x comes to y….. My life is practically filled to the brim with activities which may leave me no time for raising “my” children properly!
Sorry, typo, should be choose
Just a thought, but isn’t the name “Personal Liberty Digest” a little contradictory to the actual content of this site? I mean, gay marriage is considered by many to be a personal liberty denied by the government. Nobody’s liberties would be violated if it were legal. So why is it that everyone on the “Personal Liberty Digest” website is so down on it? I noticed the same thing on the “Nuke the Environmentalists” board. Sure there’s some crazy treehuggers out there, but don’t we all have the right to clean air? After reading a few of these articles and seeing how biased against actual personal liberties, I am starting to believe the name is a joke.
As I talk about on my website,ProudlyMadeInAmerica.com, I am all about jobs and we need to keep from constantly legislating that kills jobs.
Even if you don’t think that homosexuals are evil, the end result is gay marriage will cost our economy jobs. By legalizing gay marriage you will add > 10% instant jump onto the costs of a typical business. This translates in job loss.
Hey, I just checked out this website. I found the link to what you were talking about, which had the link to the original article in the Huffington Post. The article is talking about Michael Steele’s comments on why gay marriage would hurt our economy. His argument is utterly absurd. What he’s saying is that when gay marriage is recognized, companies will be required to provide benefits to their employees new spouses. By this logic, what Michael Steele is saying is that ALL marriage is bad for business. If every homosexual in America were to suddenly turn straight and marry a member of the opposite sex, the result would probably be even more financially devastating, as in most homosexual partnerships, the whole “stay at home mom” thing doesn’t exist and both partners are in the workforce.
Also, where did you come by those numbers? I didn’t see anything in the article about actual percentages, did I miss something?
David,
Not knowing the Bible, but taking verses out of context is one of the biggest problems that people have. Of course everyone has sinned. That is the purpose of seeking God and being forgiven of the sins that you have committed. If there was no sin, there would be no need to be “born again”. I will do as you did and quote from First John 3:5,6: “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin. Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.” Also verses 8 & 9 says “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
So you see, everybody has sinned and needs forgiveness and to be born of the spirit. But once you are born of God, you no longer want to do things that are against God. It doesn’t mean you will not do anything wrong ever again, but you will not do wrong INTENTIONALLY. If you do something unintentionally, God will chasten you for it and your conscience will lead you to not do it again. If you do wrong intentionally,then no more sacrifice for your sins remains. As it says in Hebrews 10: 26 “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.” All you have to do, after finding God, is decide not to do something that you know is wrong. Simple.
Oh boy! Look George, the book of Hebrews was concerning the Jews, some
believed Jesus, died & rose for their sins, some believe that, but still made sacrifices, and still others just made sacrifices. I believe, it was Peter or Paul, trying to teach them, everytime you make
a sacrifice, you’re recrucifing the Son of Man, afresh. He was trying to teach them, you don’t have to do that anymore. Jesus, is the perfect
unblemished, Lamb of God. I would write more, but it is no value, to you. Believe, as you wish and understand, I do.
George one more little thang, I forgot. You are 110% correct, IN HIM,
THERE IS NO SIN! HE’S SEE THE BLOOD, NOT THE SIN! If you think, for
one second, your good works is going to get you there, Bubba, your going to have one hell of a wake-up call! Only the Blood, the Power is
in the Blood! not your good works.
It has always baffled me why in (the three major) monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) the notions of punishment and reward (together with the related notions of sin, repentance, retaliation and damnation) have been assigned such a prominent position. My modest personal hypothesis now is that this may have much to do with the “socio-political agenda” the inventors of these religions (must have) secretly had in mind. Humankind has always had trouble coming to terms with the idea of death, of a definitive end to life. We’re sentient beings, we’re able to envision eternity, why then shouldn’t we use our imagination and create an entire (so-called spiritual) realm populated by mythical beings we cannot possibly observe and, just as importantly even, whose very existence can never be directly verified or falsified. So, in times when mythical thinking and superstition dominated the cultures where the three religions mentioned above originated (and scientific reasoning was only known and upheld by a mere handful of gifted philosophers, it was extremely easy to reinforce the idea of a God and his so-called kingdom, demands and plans for those who believed he existed and bothered about human beings. And, unfortunately this whole idea (of God and everything he wants and doesn’t want) has spilled over to our modern times, which (to my personal horror and many other liberal minds with me) even witness a revival of the fanaticism characterizing the Middle East cultures where monotheism came to life and to power. (See the remarkably vital tradition of fundamentalism in the USA and the greater part of Muslim countries in Asia and Africa!!!!!). But I won’t give up hope and optimism and keep expecting the ultimate triumph of Reason and Scientific Sagacity. Down with Scriptural Primitivism, a million times hooray for Levelheaded Scientific Thinking.
Freddy, I tell man, your a chip off the ole block and a joke plum out of this world! I enjoy reading all your hob-knob!
CORRECTION! First John 8 &9: says “Whosevever is born of God doth NOT commit sin.”
GEORGE, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WHEN YOU AND JESUS ARE JUDGING FOLKS, PLEASE, LET JESUS JUDGE ME. I BELIEVE, HE WILL SEE HIS BLOOD, THAT COVERS MY SIN AND REMEMBER WHY HE WENT TO THE CROSS. FORGIVE ME, AND
PRAY FOR ME AND MY IGNORANCE. I THOUGHT THERE WAS ONLY ONE UNBLEMISHED
LAMB OF GOD, NOT TWO!
Frederick, …Your faith amazes me. To think that the world created itself from nothing, and the sun rises in the east and sets in the west every day without fail. Also, the stars hang in the sky and don’t fall and rain down upon the earth, the ocean keeps its boundaries and doesn’t overun the continents, trees drop seed and reproduce annually, and the earth maintains its orbit all by itself and doesn’t go flying off into space. And all of these things just happen magically. It takes more faith to believe that then it does to believe in God. Amazing!
Thanks a billion for all your fine compliments Davey. I can see that you read your bible daily and that you do love your Enemies (and adversaries as well, of course), as your Jesus demanded. I’m quite sure that your precious Lamb has a whole bunch of very special blessings for you in store, considering your remarkable meekness, your fully non-judgemental interactive attitude and your warmth and forgivingness. Davey I’m sooooo impressed, touched and humbled by all the loving, “Christianly” messages you care to present here time and time and time and again, that I’ll grant you a few lines of special honor in my Secret Diary! Great, eh?
FREEDY, THANK-YOU! BUT REMEMBER, NOW, I TRY DO MY BEST SOMETIMES, BUT
ALWAYS FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. THAT’S WHY MY FAITH, IS IN HIM,
NOT ME, BECAUSE HE KNOWS MY HEART, AND HE KNOWS, I DON’T LOVE MY ENEMIES, I HATE EM! NOT SAYIN, I HATE YOU, BECAUSE I DON’T. WE SEE THE
WORLD IN OPPOSITE VISIONS, THAT’S IT IN A NUT SHELL! HAPPY HUNTIN!
Yeah Georgie, isn’t it amazing? All the things you mention came into existence totally and absolutely spontaneously. One day, maybe even in the near future, we (the scientists) will be very well able to shed more light on this wonderful FACT. Because we’re talking facts here, George, not Faith. By the way, if you can only explain the existence of Material Reality by referring to God, how do you explain the existence of God Him or Herself? How can the god you worship possibly exist at all??? Well, try to explain that now, try to come up with a crystal clear and fully comprehensive answer to that question and you’ll be my man, well sort of….. By the way George look up the terms Big Bang and Singularity in your Encyclopedia and learn a thing or two!!
Bet you thought I died of old age. But I’m still here ole friend. Explaining God.. It would be probably a gazillion time easier to explain the atom to a baby in a crib. We could never understand the things of God but only the ways of God. With your history you know this. Things will be made known to us when our minds are compatible enough to hold more. Being the wise person you are (said with respect not a slam) have you ever wondered why we can only use about 10% of our brains? I don’t have the answer but maybe someday we will be able to utilize the other 90%.
We are a Lesbian couple(ages 61&65) that have been in a 37yr relationship. We believe that marriage should be between a man & woman only. GOD’S Law is not to be changed just because we think it is time to be more tolerant and excepting of other’s views. Our commitment to one another was enough. We haven’t had to broadcast to the world how we live our lives. We have taken care of one another, provided for, protected & built a good solid financial nest egg that will provide for our ‘golden years’. No changing of the law or marriage license could make us any more committed to one another.
The trouble, Linda is, that practically every new generation reassesses the values, norms and solutions created by the previous ones and may opt for radical changes or adjustments. And rightfully so. If that weren’t the case we would still be living in caves or maybe just a trifle better, travelling by way of horses and carts across this country. That’s what’s been astonishing me ever since I decided to participate in these forum debate. Folk seem to accept all the blessings of our modern age (sophisticated electronics, highly effective medicine and all), but when it comes to profound social change they all of a sudden back off completely and it’s as if they want to stick safely and quasi-comfortably with the late 19th or early 20th century at best. Incredible really. But anyway Linda, if you’re quite comfortable with your relationship arrangement that’s fine, great even. But I won’t go for scraps and peanuts. I demand the same (legal) rights heterosexual couples are claiming, for me and my lover. From a partner pension to the right of child adoption. Period. And I’m prepared to fight to get ‘em.
You’re absolutely right DAVE, we do inhabit two totally different planets. The faith you and George subscribe to just goes against everything I believe in in life. It’s so completely alien to my nature as a human being, that I can’t begin to tell you how glad I am to be free of the BURDEN OF ANY RELIGIOUS CREED. I really marvel at the wonders of Material Reality, but as far as I’m concerned we most certainly do not need a God or gods or messengers of god or the gods to treat what we see around us with all due respect and reverence. That’s why I do not own a car, preferably don’t travel by plane and am partly vegetarian. This beautiful planet has been abused so hideously and shamelessly by decadent and greedy Westerners in particular, during the past century, that it’ll take two or three more generations of responsible citizens to put only a fraction right of what we’ve done to this precious place we call Earth or Gaia. That’s why I want to fully support President Obama in realizing his GREEN AGENDA and wish him all the luck imaginable.
David,
I have never thought that good works would save you. Only the blood of Christ. I don’t see how you got that out of what I wrote. “You are saved by grace, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.” I only quoted the Bible, so you are arguing with the word of God, not me. But I do appreciate you input on this page.
George, Sir, I totally agree! These Anti-God, Anti-Christ, God-Haters,
Unbeleivers, LOVE IT, when Christains, want to split hairs on God’s
Holy Word! I’ll write it again, there was, is, only One Righteous, Holy, Pure, Sinless Man, that’s Jesus Christ. Even though, God,
proclaimed, Abraham righteous for his act of good faith, but when, you
read on, Abraham, lied like a dog, and told the king, that Sara was his sister, when indeed she was his wife.
Hi Dave. Sarah was his sister. I believe if I remember right, She was his 1/2 sister.
Blessings to ya
Hi again Dave. Bible Study Time: Lol About our discussion earlier this month…Gal 5:17-21 where Paul is talking to the new gentle Christians. I see what you say then I read this and now I’m not sure which to believe.
Frederick,
The Big Bang is based on the Theory of Thermal Nuclear Dynamics. It states that matter cannot be created from nothing. The Big Bang theory is based on a piece of matter floating out in the universe and exploding. It then expanded at an enormous rate and formed the galaxies, planets, and stars. If matter cannot be created from nothing as stated in the TTND, then where did the piece of matter come from? If you want me to prove that God exists, I think I can. If you see an ant hill you pretty well know that ants exist. If you see a building you pretty well know that builders (or mankind) exists based on your previous learning experience. Therefore, if you see a creation, you can pretty well know that God exists. Of course, I know that you will still not be convinced, but that is your choice. It is beyond my comprehension that a person would try to take God out of the equation, but as it says “men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” Because the Bible condemns a person’s lifestyle they would rather believe it is a fairy tale. They, in effect, become their own god. I would much rather believe the word of God than human beings who constantly lie through their teeth and steal from one another. Do you really think that you will get the truth from men? The Bible also says that “the fool has said in his heart there is no God.” But God has chosen the foolishness of this world to confound the wisdom of the wise.
Jo and George…
Thanks for your replies. I agree with it wholeheartedly! Thanks for standing up for truth and right.
M
I love it when the great minds try to teach that eons and eons ago there was (NOTHING),, but (IT) blew up. and life began. Lol Please old wise ones,, how could nothing blow up and where did the dust or particle or whatever they’re calling it these days come from.
Unfortunately you forget one thing George and that is that is even if you assume that God created matter, God himself will have necessarily had to do this FROM NOTHING!! So, tell me, how could this have been possible, if you surmise that matter cannot be created from nothing??? Besides, there is another very important and crucial point. Even if you have to assert (which I indeed don’t do) that matter was created somehow or another, this is most certainly no direct evidence for the existence of a super creature such as god. Simply because there is no way to gain DIRECT EVIDENCE FOR CREATION BY DIRECT OBSERVATION of the probable entity or entities possibly responsible for the advent of matter. Your God can ONLY BE INFERRED FROM YOUR BIBLE. There is NO OBJECTIVE WAY to DIRECTLY AND CLEARLY get into contact with such an entity as God and say, ah, well, look or listen this is God (AS SUCH). We plainly and simply know that President Kennedy did ever exist because we have a whole plethora of indisputable (video and audio) material to prove it. No such luck with god. Of course not, because if that had been the case we wouldn’t have this debate here at all, never, no way.
So you’ll have to do much better than tell me that there’s any evidence at all for God’s existence because of presence of matter all around us. We’ll still have to show and prove that it’s God who did it all, quite apart from the question (which you haven’t answered at all) how God himself can exist in the first place!!!
By the way, I’m not saying that “there is no God”, as you contend. No, I’m saying that God’s existence has yet to be proven; the arguments for his existence are extremely unconvincing, primitive and thin. So for the time being the burden of proof rests with the Believers and I don’t see any intelligent reason whatsoever why I should subscribe to their tenets.
Oh, one more point, my friends Dave and George. You keep telling us that the Bible is the word of god. But why shouldn’t the Buddha’s Pali Canon not be similarly qualified? How do we know EXACTLY that this scriptures came from God or some such entity??? Well, we really don’t know. For the time being I’ll stick with the notion that a few very fanatic and zealous men (yes men, not women) decided to fill their days and nights with scribbling a whole lot of myths on parchment paper and got a full bunch of folk to ascribe absolute truth to their writing. Nothing more, nothing less!
Sorry, these xcriptures
Just one last one for you guys, George & Dave. Well, precisely because mankind could not adequately solve the riddles of life and death, suffering and decline, (S)HE INVENTED THE GODS AND GOD and all the myths related to their (or his) ALLEGED existence. Yes, maybe God or the gods exist, but then ONLY WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE HUMAN BRAIN, nowhere else, I’m afraid.
Freddy, buddy your almost there! NOT IN THE HUMAN BRAIN, BUT IN YOUR
HEART AND SOUL. Your brain, see things through yours eyes. But, your
heart and soul, believe by FAITH, a substance, NOT SEEN, BUT YET HOPED
FOR! Although, God laid it out in plain veiw for HIS CREATION AND WONDERS AND SPLENDORS to be seen.
Much too vague to my taste, Dave, my friend, and not nearly enough. I’ve reserved my heart for beautiful music, art and sex. The heart works with appeal and personal preferences. I hear a clarinet solo by Miles Davis or the slow movement of Bartok’s second piano concerto and my heart flies wide open. But with God the only thing I feel is whole heap of irritation, sarcasm and cynicism. Not terribly healthy for the heart, I’d think But that’s the way things are. There’s a gorgeous “prayer” called the “Gestalt prayer”, we used to (re)cite back in the nineties and it goes like this:
“I do my thing and you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I, and if by chance we find each other, it’s beautiful. If not, it can’t be helped”.
Well, those final two lines apply to God just as well. It’s hard to meet up with a Zombie, Dave, an Abstraction, an Alien, a Shadow. Maybe you’ve got that special “knack” enabling you to “love” a Distant Phantom, Dave. To me it just sounds ludicrous. A total WASTE OF TIME AND ENERGY.
You know what intrigues the hell out of me? The entire psychological state of affairs, explaining the fact that some folk are clinging so breathlessly, so to speak, to Faith and Hope for a Mythical Future, whilst others, such as myself, are totally put off by the idea of having to worship Someone who probably only exists within the overheated minds of desperados who can’t accept the natural boundaries of life and are, apparently, unable to say: THIS IS ALL WE’VE GOT BABE, THE REST IS JUST THE RESULT OF BLOODY WISHFUL THINKING.
Freddy, Freddy, Freddy, my man, buddy and friend, your beautiful music,
art, sex, fine dine and wine is acts of the flesh, and we both know,
ain’t nobody getting out of here alive. Only! Only, Only, that BLOODY
WISHFUL THINKING, is going to get your Soul and Spirit to JESUS CHRIST.
It’s your so-called BLOODY WISHFUL THINKING, IN HIS BLOOD, is where the
rubber meets the road. Freddy, Freddy, it seems like your dancing in
your soul, all around HIS BLOOD, jump in it, it’s comforting in it! Full of LOVE and FORGIVENESS, that we all need.
You know what keeps amazing me and what in fact has never stopped amazing me is the “average”, if such a thing exists, but OK), conservative Believer’s lack of a sense of critical thinking. They read the bible, or any other “holy” book for that matter and consider everything they find in there “the truth”, merely and only because, well, it’s been put in there. So, take the notion of heaven, that all-time popular phenomenon among believers. It’s all bliss and happiness and harmony and what not. And not just for a few decades, no, FOREVER!!! But now I challenge you to sit down quietly and imagine (for a mere 10 minutes) an existence of SOLELY and really never, never, never ending bliss and harmony!! Well I don’t know about you, but I myself would be bored stiff, really utterly utterly bored to core of my soul in the long run, in such a situation. Compare it to a child’s fantasy about a chocolate and candy store. Of course, on a first thought, nothing else would seem more attractive. But you won’t need to stretch your imagination that strongly to figure out the result of the realization of such a fantasy: nausea to the umpteenth power. So, do people honestly realize what they’re talking about, when they’re blasting the message that that’s all they want for themselves: to be washed in the blood of the Lamb in order to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. No, no vague blathering about bliss and harmony, but very concrete information about what it’s all about up there in that place you Believers dream about night after night. Oh yes, lest I forget: there’s that other point about resurrection. Suppose you’ve been set up nicely in your heavenly house of eternal bliss and all of a sudden the trumpets start blowing your bliss away and summon you to haul yer soul’s @$$ over to planet earth; time to shoot out of yer grave or yer fancy urn. Yes, then what? Ah boy will you be glad to make that mega dive down to Mother Earth and start another round of fruit and nut eating until – in about five billion years – the sun attains the stature of a Red Dwarf and you’ll have to be hauled over once again to those bliss infested fields up there. No, I’m not laughing, honestly…..
Freddy, you may not be laughing, but I am. Maybe, I have a better sense
of humor, hell, I don’t know! But I know this, your gettin surrounded.
Like I said before, Good Luck figuring it all out.
To David: I suggest that you go back and read my first reply from November 12. Read First John and pay special attention to the verses that I quoted. No one could live without sin until Jesus died on the cross and came back on the day of Pentecost. Since that time the spirit of God is what keeps you from sin. The blood covers you just as it did on the doorposts during the Passover. The New Testament and the Old Testament are different dispensations. Jesus did not save you in your sins. He saved you FROM your sins. You can also read chapter six of Romans. Read what the Bible says….not me.
To Frederick: As it says in Romans 8:24-25; “For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.”
I can tell you from personal experience when you receive the spirit of God, you can physically feel it in your soul…and you know, without a doubt, that it is Him. Try seeking God through prayer and just test it out. Ask Him sincerely to help you believe and just see what happens. Test this like a scientific experiment. Ask Him to help you with your unbelief. You may be surprised with the results.
george, Sir, what are we debating? Are you of the Pentecostal Doctrine?
George, I agree with everything you wrote, but you lost me a little bit
about being saved in sin, or from sin. I was a very sinful person. I was saved in sin. The last time I checked, Jesus said to come as you are. If you are sinless in your flesh, then I take my hat off to you. You and Jesus are alot better men than, I am. Good deal. I went to a
Pentecostal Church for about 7 years and they’re the most sinless folks
on the face of the earth to hear them say it. I’ll leave it at that.
George, one more little bitty thing. Your 100% right about the pass-over. God’s wrath passed over every house that had the symbol, that
represented the blood. I guess, the people inside each and every house,
was sinless? Uh?
Also to Frederick:
To add to what I just wrote, if you can see physical evidence of something or prove it, then there would be no need for faith would there? Faith has its place, but only in things that cannot be seen or proven. I appreciate what you have to say and your right to say it, but I totally disagree with you. Just because you have not found God does not mean that He does not exist. I may have had the best pizza in the world and asked you to try it. You may refuse because you have already, in your opinion, had the best pizza in the world. But how would you know if you never tried the one that I recommended? People that HAVE experienced God know that He exists, and do not have to prove it. We know.
Uh, didn’t God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for that? It’s wrote in “black and white” that homo-anything is an “ABOMINATION”, right? So what’s the arguement? America isn’t happy that it’s not COMPLETELY DESTROYED YET? Are you all “really” in need of that? Remember when 9/11 happened and you all thought “God, how could this happen?” and you begged God for help? Well, it hasn’t happened again since, right? So since He heard you and spared this country (it hasn’t happened since), now you’re going to go back to your abominable ways??? If so THEN DON’T COMPLAIN WHEN THE NEXT TIME “IT FLAT OUT DOES DESTROY THIS COUNTRY!!! “Then” you can cry how you want all fags to marry each other- JUST LIKE HOW THE PEOPLE OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH DID, “AND PAID THE ‘ULTIMATE’ PRICE FOR IT!!!” Get it?
Bottom line: God gave marraige to man AS A GIFT, and “yes” that DOES MEAN that it is “SACRED AND HOLY” to Him. Yes, it is as sacred as baptism, so do you all think it would be o.k. to baptise 2 men while they are having sex with each other? DUH!!!! Would you say it’s o.k. to let 2 gay men has sex in a baptismal faunt?- Or do you REALLY want God to COMPLETELY DESTROY THIS COUNTRY!???!!!!! This one isn’t even debatable. All those that fight or want gay marraige, CAN HAVE THE SAME FATE AS ALL OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH AS WELL!!! And that is just FACT!!!
Ezekiel 16:48-50 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
this is why sodom was destroyed these sins lead them into homosexuality, the real problem is described in the ezekiel “pride”
To FERDERICK TOO::I have an entirely different reason to my and many other scholars understanding as to truly why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. If any one wants to hear it please email me at barbarahoffman@gmail.com and I might be able to shed more light on the discussion. It’s too detailed to write down here and I’m tired. Being old (Frederick LOL) and all. Love you guy. But this might help you on this one area. Not that I agree with your life style but I want a fair discussion going on here too. Just put “Sodom and Gomorrah” in the subject box. Take care baby. We Loveth ya.
Frederick, how do you explain thousands of prophecies made thousands of years ago being fore filled right before your eyes?
Over 300+ prophecies were fulfilled by YESHUA ha Mashiah (Jesus the Messiah). Other imposters never even fulfilled one.
Good Heavens, ROBERT CORUM, we’ve had that discussion months ago already. Haven’t you read the oldest posts yet? Well, let me recapitulate for you here. Here goes.
The main point is that the whole story about Sodom & Gomorrah isn’t about homosexuality as such at all. It’s all about insatiability, intemperance and the abuse of strangers. Those men screaming outside Lot’s house were probably in for “every new, fresh and hot piece of flesh” in town. For all we know those “angels” visiting Lot might as well have had female appearances. Those sex hungry men were constantly lusting after fine, lithe, young bodies, so to speak and quite satisfied with their culture of “gang rape”. And, for your information, that’s not what we’ve been discussing here at all. We’ve travelled way beyond the matter of sexual preferences and kicked ourselves neatly into a debate concerning the legitimacy of biblical truth claims. Voilà. Wanna join??? Oh, um, Barb & George, I’ll get back to you shortly, don’t worry!!!! I’ve been very busy catching up with a highly important writing project lately. So, please bear wth me now.
To David:
I guess it depends on how you define sin. Sin is a willful transgression of God’s law. Did you read the parts that I asked you to read? I repeat; it is not me saying this…it is the Bible, God’s word. How many sins did it take for Adam and Eve to fall from the garden? Just one. God made provision for the Israelites to make sacrifices for their sins, but they continued to anger God over and over with their disobedience. He finally gave them up to Babylon and they lost their land and their freedom. You see, David, as it says in Hebrews 10:4, “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.” That is why the Son of God came into this world….to make a perfect sacrifice that would take away sin. If the spirit of God is in your heart, it is a perfect spirit is it not? By your own admission it is. Therfore, it would make your spirit perfect also, wouldn’t it? Once again I repeat…read what the word of God says…not what you have been taught. It is not me saying it. The Bible says it. The entire theme of the Bible is about not sinning against God and those that do will not save themselves. Jesus did not die to forgive your sins…he did that while he was on earth. Just as he said to the sick of the palsy in Matthew 9:5,6:…”But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins, Arise take up thy bed, and go into thine house.” He died to sanctify your soul. That is the spiritual perfection that takes place at salvation. As it says in Hebrews 10:14, “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are santified.” No man is perfect in the flesh, but it is the spirit that becomes perfect. Your spirit will no longer want to sin against God at that point. You will always seek to do the right thing in your heart so that you will be pleasing to God. So if you know that something is wrong, you will not do it. It is a fairly simple example that God has left us, but people twist it all out of proportion. I realize that this probably sounds foreign to you, but it is the truth. I was always raised by the saying, “you can’t do wrong and get by with it.” It will catch up to you somewhere in your life. And by the way,…no, I am not Pentacostal. I am an independent believer.
george, I agree with what you wrote. IN HIM (JESUS) THERE IS NO SIN.
Jesus, said we will surely reap what we sow. Sow a good seed, reap a
good harvest. Our Government has sown bad seeds for decades, spend more
money out, than coming in. That’s why we are just about bankrupt and
obama is just the icying on the cake. He will finish the job into bankruptcy. This is just an example. I do read my bible and have read it complete and read the New Testament about 7 times, not only read, but study. I don’t take to heart NO MANS WORD, concerning GOD’S WORD!
Believe as you wish, that’s your so-called free will. Uh! that’s another big can of worms (free-will). By the way, reaping what we sow,
is our judgement on earth. (Good Works), (Law). And, he who lives by the Law, will be judged by the Law. Oh yeah! that’s not my words, it’s
God’s Word in your Bible. I live my life under Love, Mercy, Grace, & the Blood. You live your life as you wish, same goes for everybody else
on this site.
typo: perfected forever them that are sanctified…not santified.
BARBIE, JUST PRAY AND KEEP ON FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH! JESUS,
WILL TAKE CARE OF THE REST! STAY FOCUSED ON HIM, HE’S OUR FREE GIFT TO
ETERNAL LIFE, NOT OUR GOOD WORKS!
David:
I appreciate your ideas. If we are sincere God will help us all to understand what His will for us is. Keep praying and reading. That is all we can do. Hopefully, God will reveal to us all what we should be doing with our individual lives. Keep the faith.
P.S. David:
While good works will not save you, God did say that “faith without works is dead.”
David:
I was reading your post from Oct. 28th where you stated that A MAN WHO SAYS HE IS WITHOUT SIN, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH
IS NOT IN HIM. You should have read on. The first verse of chapter 2 in First John says: “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.” The verse immediately after your quote says,
“If we donfess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrightousness.”
So you see, David, that all men have indeed sinned. That is the point.
Jesus can forgive us of our sins that we have committed and then he will cleanse us of ALL unrightousness. Just as he told the woman that was caught in adultery to “go forth and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.” There was no sacrifice that would cleanse a man from all sin until Jesus was crucified and risen again. Now there is that perfect sacrifice that was the Son of God that will “perfect forever them that are sanctified.” It took the Son of God to make that perfect sacrifice that the blood of goats and lambs could not do. The spirit of God is a perfect spirit and if it dwells in you, then you also have a perfect spirit.
You say that “there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh of men”.
If you will check Romans 8:8-10, it says “So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of rightousness.”
The first verse of chapter 8 says, ” There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spitit.”
The first verse of Romans, chapter Six, says, “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”
If you read further down to verse 6 it says, “Knowing this, that our old man (meaning the person that we were before we found Christ) is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” Verse 12 says “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
How much plainer could this be? Wake up, David. Read and understand.
george, what in the heaven or hell are you trying to relay to me? If you notice, Jesus told all his people of faith, Go and sin, No More.
He prayed for His disciples, that their faith don’t fail them. When,
you read and study the New Testament, their faith, not His Faith, but
there faith failed them over and over. But when the smoke cleared in their lives, I know, I know, after the day of pentecost, their faith in
Him and His free ticket, was good enough! Faith without Works is Dead, I totally agree! But I believe it’s talking Spiritual Works, not fleshy works, because again Paul wrote, that there is not one good thing that dwells in the flesh of men. So, keep up the good works!
Typos: should read “if we confess our sins” and “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”.
Well folks, thanks for all your arguments and suggestions, but frankly I’ve come to think that with debates concerning religious affinities and affiliations it’s just as with political (party)preferences. It’s really extremely hard to convince your opponents effectively if they’ve invested years and decades of effort and energy to create and/or maintain a certain stance regarding these particular realms (politics & religion). So, true to my point here we see arguments going back and forth endlessly, so to speak, and in no way we’re getting even an inch nearer to each other. I think the main reason for this state of affairs may be found in (the adherence to or the rejection of) a set of BASIC ASSUMPTIONS which keep popping up time and again here. Allow me to give you a few examples of such assumptions.
1) There is a God residing somewhere within a very special Non-material dimension (called “Heaven” or “The Heavens”, or whatever you want to call it) who’s directly responsible for the origin of our material reality and who has very special plans for (the future of) our species (homo sapiens). Now, for practically all of you here this constitutes an indomitable Truth. Not for me, not by a long shot. I keep being doubtful precisely because I can’t see how this hypothesis can be objectively tested (and possibly corroborated) beyond reasonable doubt. In the first place it’s extremely hard if not completely impossible to define the phenomenon “God” itself. If we talk about God, who’re we talking about precisely. Jews, Christians and Muslims keep telling me that “He” is almighty and all loving. Be that as it may, there is no way for us to verify such a statement. Believers do mention “blessings” received within their lifetimes and recognize what they call “the hand of God” in such experiences. But once again this is totally hypothetical, as we’re NOT able to get into contact with God directly and check for the veracity of these assumptions.
2) The delivery of such “blessings” as well as the Ultimate Reward, eternal Bliss, postmortem, that is, presupposes the presence of much Faith and Hope as well as Abidance by a certain number of rules and regulations to be found in one (or more) so-called Holy Book(s). And once more we find ourselves here in rather muddy waters, to say the least. For, the trouble here is that Faith and Hope may – and probably very often will, necessarily, collide with the Believer’s intelligence and “common sense”. Take, for instance the point I made in my pre-previous post above, about the PARADOX concerning resurrection versus (postmortem) entrance into Heaven. The whole construction utterly defies logic and can only be characterized as ridiculously bizarre. Exactly the same can be said regarding a whole host of other stories told and arrangements indicated in both Biblical Testaments. The creation of Heaven & Earth, for instance, within a mere six days straight; that totally crazy story (somewhere in the New Testament) about the healing of the first person to hit the lake’s surface immediately after the special Angel’s appearance near its shore; the full ban on – the consumption of – alcohol in some places, whereas Jesus himself seems to have very much enjoyed this liquid at least once during a wedding in Kana. And I could go on and on and on and on……
3) The dire necessity of Faith and Hope in general, which remains a highly moot point, as far as I’m concerned. To me it all sounds rather palliative and defensive, as if you were saying: “Well, we’re not going to grant you any certainty, because we’ve got every right in the universe to test your sense of endurance. But don’t worry, your Faith and Hope will keep you going very nicely, so what else do you want?” Well, I may be crazy, but that’s what I call FLAGRANT CYNICISM: promise ‘em a pie in the sky, sit back quietly and let ‘em sweat! No my dears, you may be very happy with yer crumbs and scrapings, I’m not buying. After all my momma didn’t raise no fool, as I heard a jazz musician say very pointedly on account of a totally despicable contract a particular producer dared to offer him.
4) Oh yeah, we’ve also been blessed with a whole bundle of “prophecies” to back up our Faith and Hope. But unfortunately these so-called prophecies are nothing more than “predictions after the fact”. Remember, to be sure, that your “Holy Books” were written many decades, if not centuries after the alleged great events took place. Besides, the canonical texts as we know them now are the result of rock hard political battling, bartering , editing and repeated re-editing. So, prophecies? My foot!!! Don’t let yourself be fooled into buying that crap. Try to find out HOW PRECISELY the veracity of the “prophecies” has been established and see what you can come up with!!!!
To Frederick:
What if we are right and you are wrong? We would be okay. Where would you be?
This article just highlights what true Conservatives have been saying for a while now. There is just one party, the Republicrats, or Demoncans, take your pick, and they do not represent us. Cheney’s rationale is easy to see. His daughter is gay.
I’d like to see if Cheney feels it is still up to the States to decide these laws, when one of these decides to outrightly ban these Corrution of Marriage laws, and their recognition, altogether.
That aside, put plainly, the agenda of the political class seems to be the elimination of Christian values on all levels. The Corruption of Marriage laws are just the latest attack in a long sequence.
It is obvious to anyone with the tiniest sense of logical thinking that you can ONLY marry a mad and a woman. The associated legal documentation and public ceremonies are merely an acknowledgement of an existing fact; That a man has joined with his woman with all the reponsibilities that entails.
What you seem to forget RvNYC is that marriage is a CULTURAL PHENOMENON, not a natural one. It’s not like wind or rain or atoms or whatever related to physics or biology for that matter. So, every generation, every century has the full right to review and revise the rules concerning such phenomena as marriage, the number of members in Congress, the length of a presidential term (as has happened in France under Chirac a couple of years ago), etc. Now, remember that this is 2009, the 21st century and not 1909 or 1949 even. In a new century, things which might have been considered totally self-evident (such as marriage entailing the legal bond between a man and a woman) in a former era may be seen as completely outdated in the current one by a certain number of citizens, at least. And that’s precisely the case with gay coupling and gay marriage. The fact that these issues are discussed openly at all, would be quite unthinkable during the McCarthy era, a mere 50 years ago. And, a lot of folk want to see the next big step taken: legalize gay marriage all over the country and make gay couples eligible for adoption. Period. Of course, so-called true conservatives will bawl their heads off in disgust and protest. But what the hell, they’re not the only ones with strong voices in this country, thank Heavens. They also protested loudly in the mid sixties when Blacks stood up for their civil rights, so, nothing terribly new under our precious sun…..
Well George, dear, the point is: how are we going to establish the truth here, reliably, that is. Maybe it’s not even a matter of right or wrong, but simply willingness to think critically and think for yourself instead of constantly parroting lines stolen from a book, supposedly written some 2000 years ago.
It’s been fun. I am signing off now. Frederick…try the experiment and see what happens.
Experiment, George; what experiment? Anywhow, I think I’ll be signing off as well. All relevant arguments have been exchanged by now, as far as I’m concerned. I’ve not been turned into a Believer, on the contrary: my feeling, no my conviction even, that there’s a lot wrong with religion in general has only been reinforced. I do hope to be granted the pleasure of another four or five decades of happy living with my lover. What happens thereafter I’ll leave to the gods, if any……..
David Hall says:
November 24, 2009 at 3:41 am
BARBIE, JUST PRAY AND KEEP ON FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH! JESUS,
WILL TAKE CARE OF THE REST! STAY FOCUSED ON HIM, HE’S OUR FREE GIFT TO
ETERNAL LIFE, NOT OUR GOOD WORKS!
To David Hall: I know we will never be saved by works alone. That was not my Question. I just needed your opinion on those verses stated. Also above you said Abraham lied when he said Sarah was his sister. This is not so. She was his 1/2 sister. If you see the lineage you will find this to be true.
Ma’am, my point was Abraham told a 1/2 lie, 1/2 truth, which in God’s
eye is a lie. The king ask Abraham, why didn’t you tell me, this was
your wife? It don’t matter if she was his cousin, aunt, sister, or
momma. Abraham, lied or try to trick the king in believing Sara was
his sister, and not his wife, to save his on hide. That’s the point,
I was trying to make.
Dear Sir: The bible does not lie. NOT ONE SINGLE WORD OF IT. Abraham loved and feared his Father God and would never have lied about anything. God saw Sarah as his sister also or Abraham would never have been blessed as he was if he was nothing but a lying dog as you stated. They were brother and sister also. I don’t enjoy arguing about Father’s Holy letter to us but when I see something that is so misleading to others I can not stand by without a correction and truth being told. I thinkest thou should do a wee bit more studying before you call one of Gods most cherished Prophets a lying dog. This will be my last word on the subject. God Bless and keep studying. You will be alright. P.S. Father calls me his child, not his adopted child.
Ma’am, I don’t believe, I wrote Abraham was a lying dog. I wrote, He
lied like a dog, misleading the king, because the king asked, Abraham,
why didn’t you tell me, this was your wife? Because the king, kinda
like her, (if you know what, I mean). Abraham, was the Father of Faith,
declared by God, because Abraham did a Faithful act, by taking his son
to the alter, to slay him. As we also, will be declared Faithful and
Righteous, on that day, because of our Faithful act, of Repentance in the Name of Jesus. Even, though we all have lied, just as Abraham, lied
to the king. Belief with the light, you have within, I do. The Bible,
has quoted on more than one occasion, New and Old Testament, that All
Men are Liars, including Abraham. If is wasn’t true, it would make God’s Word a lie, and we KNOW THAT AIN’T SO!
maybe, but Abraham did not lie was my point.
Barbie, God created Adam & Eve, man & woman. On that, we can agree!
David: I will make one more comment. Men sinned and could not live without sin until Jesus died on the cross. The Jews were allowed to make sacrifices to atone for their sins in order to appease the wrath of God. Jesus died on the cross that “he might sanctify the people with his own blood.” From the day of Pentecost forward, people now pray to God to forgive them of their sins and then to eradicate sin from their mortal bodies. As the Bible says, ” God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the spirit, and a belief of the truth.” Jesus died to cleanse of from our sins and to cleanse us of ALL unrightousness. No man can say that he has not sinned, but once you have found God you should “cease from sin”. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice that could perform what the blood of bulls and goats could not do…..cleanse us from all sin. It has been this way since Jesus was crucified. As Paul said, “I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ that liveth in me, and the life that I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”
So, once you have been crucified with Christ, you put off the body of sin, that “henceforth you should not serve sin”. ” The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
As it says in chapter 6 of Romans, “He that is a servant of sin is free from rightousness”; and “He that is a servant of rightousness is free from sin.” I don’t find that hard to understand.
LOOK, GEORGE, THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH, I AGREE, THAT’S WHY WE ALL GOING TO DIE, INCLUDING (YOU)! AND THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE,
TROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, I AGREE! MAYBE, YOU KEEP WRITING COMMENTS
TO ME, TO TRY TO CONVINCE ME, YOU DON’T SIN. IF SO, YOUR FULL OF YOURSELF AND BLIND TO THAT POINT! NO WONDER, NON-BELIEVERS RUN FOR THE
DAMN HILLS WHEN THEY SEE PEOPLE LIKE YOU COMING. YOUR SO-CALLED SINLESS
LIFE COULDN’T LEAD A DYING BLIND DOG TO A WATER HOLE, MUCH LESS A BLIND
MAN TO CHRIST! GET OVER YOUR SELF, BUBBA. I GETTIN ABOUT PUKING SICK,
READING YOUR SELF RIGHTEOUS COMMENTS.
The Bible also says “Blessed are the PURE in heart, for they shall see God.” You can’t have it both ways,David. Either serve God, or serve Satan. You can’t serve both at the same time.
Look, George, man somebody can’t be PURE at heart, and be so judgemental to everybody else. It is also written, Mr. Self Holy,
Judge Not and Ye Shall Not Be Judged!
What keeps intriguing me, for some time now, is how you Christians envision this thing you call Eternal Life”. Because to me it would seem highly improbable that you keep your imagination totally out of the way when contemplating the idea of Life after Death. How do you know that that’s what you’re really, really craving for, if you can’t even be clear and concrete about its precise structure and content. Sometimes during my daydreams I ask myself what it would be like to share such an experience as “Eternal Life” with some of the folk that keep contending that this is the purpose of their lives: to eventually qualify for that Big, Big Prize: Heaven. Well, I can’t come up with anything else than intense boredom and sterility, which logically seen would be definitely connected to “Life” in Hell. Oh Good Graciousness, I think God Him/Herself, if (S)he exists, must be laughing endlessly, watching (a substantial part of) humankind spewing all this nonsense about never ending bless vs eternal suffering in hell. Yeah, it’s what psychiatrists call sadomasochistic ideation, isn’t it?
The masochistic part belonging to fantasies about a so-called Heaven and the sadistic part pertaining to the glee related to yer ideas about folk squirming and screaming their ghostly lungs out there in that pit of eternal suffering….. Yes I know you, you fine Christians! Ugh.
Well Frederick…..In my imagination I would think that heaven would be a lot like earth, but without the misery, pain, and frustration. If God made us in His own image, then maybe He made earth in heaven’s own image. I don’t know for sure, and neither does anyone else. Only one way to find out and that is to go there. Unfortunately, no one will be able to come back and tell us what they saw. It puzzles why you say ugh! to Christians. What is wrong with living a good, decent life?
I’m sorry George, but as far as I can see, a world without Any misery or frustration is A TOTALLY DEAD WORLD, AS STERILE AS A STONE IN THE DESERT. I shudder at the idea of having to live in a merely rosy, sugary reality, surrounded by constantly Hallelujah singing nut heads. Pain and frustration (up to a reasonable degree) do breed CREATIVITY George. Ask any successful writer, painter, composer and the likes. No need to look for negativity as I suppose you’d call frustration, pain, etc. They’re just part of living reality and that, perhaps, is as it should be. You Orthodox Christians wade in a world of fairy tales, George, I’ve come to think. Because what you want and hope for simply doesn’t exist. It’s been invented, as far as I can see, by The Church, just to keep you all on a leash and manipulate you into a dumb sheep- like obedience, which will nicely reinforce their perverse position of power and special privileges. But, hopefully, not for long anymore. You can’t fool people forever, George, however much your Church Leaders would like to maintain the status quo, as they’ve done for the past twenty centuries!!! Wake up, come to your full senses, at last
It always amazes me to listen to all of the narrow minded views on this issue.this issue is not about marriage. It is about greed.There is not one right that married people have that queer couples do not have,except one.The right to social security benifits with rights of survivorship.Other than that gays have access to every law that couples living together have, in regards to seeing that your partner does not loose everthing you have aquired together after one of the dies.
However we were told by the gay community in the Clinton era that they would show the world what true love really was.So I guess that means picking up a new sex partner in gay bars every night.Rosie and Kelly splitting after 5 years Linsey Lohan on her drug induce sexapades.Perez Hilton frothing at the mouth at anyone who does not tell him what he wants hear.Gay rights groups Violatling church sanctuaries during worship service.And the list goes on and on..
Oh ya they have done so much more good than those hatefilled Christians.It not just Christians that dont agree with Queerdome.
Oh and by the way, Courts are haveing trouble trying to figure out how to grant divorces to all of these loving couples WHO ARE JUST NOT COMPATABLE..
So dont give us this bullcrap about how homosexuality is the new moral compass.What this really boils down to SEXUAL FREEDOM…plain and simple.You want ot be free to have sex with anyone or anything that strikes your fancy.
So then lets have a real debate..If the only Issue is how much Love you can generate to those around you.Then tell me this.
Whats wrong with being Gay? Whats wrong with poligamy? Whats wrong with prostitution?Whats wrong with pornography? Whats wrong with a little pot? If we are going to let freedom ring..then LET IT RING.Non of this pussy footing around.
We have Medical Mariuana.How bout Medical prostitution.I havent had sex in 5 years. I would love to be able to have a sex therapist every two weeks or so.What about my rights…I DONT WANT TO BE MARRIED. you gay people are so selfish you only think about yourselves.What about these young chicks that dont mind exposing themselves to the world.We are suppressing thier right to be who they are..(SLUTS)You talk about and economic boom.In no time at all one of these young chicks would be able to buy out Bill Gates with the cash in thier pockets..And there would be thousands of women just like her. Just think of the tax revenue…
And Satan rejoiced, for he had corrupted the whole world.One lie at a time.
And the Lord was sickened in his heart,For what he had created for good works had become corrupted and heartless and without concious or soul.
And the Lord was sickened that the freedom of choice he had placed in thier hearts was used to abuse others for their own selfish desires.
Fredrick: what an angry little man you are.Is that why you are seeing a phychiatrist.The consciounce that God has given you was screaming in your head.So you had to pay another God hater like yourself to help you learn how to tell that voice to shut up.You had to pay someone $150./hr to tell you all is right in YOUR world.Well hows that working for ya now? I see ya learned some pretty big words in your session, so you must have spent quite a bit of time there.That word sadomasochistic ideation.so did you learn how to say it and spell it in the same session? Or did you have to spend $450. before you finally got it? Pretty expensive schooling if ya ask me.So what does it mean? “I AM GOD” If you are god then what are you doing in the phychiatrist office? Arent you all knowing and all seeing.Maybe use should start using drugs. Thats what John Lennon used to learn his communist Ideas.He said it made him a better song writer.We now know that 90% of HIS songs were written by someone else.Same as all the other song writers who said the same thing. So his life was a lie too. What about Curt Cobain? Now theres a brilliant mind.His own little Nirvana caused him to blow his head off with a shotgun,because he was so miserable.He can keep his nirvana..
So you tell me little man.Who fooling who.those who believe in Jesus, or those who belive in themselves???
Well dearest Neil, first of all I’m not seeing any psychiatrist at all. Maybe you’ve forgotten what proper reading means, but if so, there are plenty of interactive courses on the internet to mend your problem.
No, my dear, I am a certified clinical psychologist myself, so I should know a thing or two about psychiatric disturbances. And considering your posts here, I guess you’re a pretty (WORD REMOVED) up guy yourself. Nobody in their right mind would put gays, prostitutes and heavy drug users into the same league, my friend. If you’re not familiar with the term “gay”, well, I’d say just take a short trip to your local library. I’m sure you’ll find a whole lot of material there to educate you on the subject.
Furthermore, this is a FREE COUNTRY indeed. Being gay and acting gay is fully legal here in our precious US of A, thank goodness. And that being the case I demand (mind you, DEMAND; I’m not begging or asking) to be granted exactly the same rights as my heterosexual fellow citizens. That’s what we call DEMOCRACY Neil, in case you’ve forgotten. In a democratic society there is and should quite self evidently be place for Believers, Atheists and Agnostics (such as myself) alike. As there should be for Breeders (aka heterosexuals) and Gay persons on an equal rank. A civilized, (post)modern nation welcomes and, yes, celebrates diversity, because open diversity is the hallmark of a dynamic society, Neil. But I have the impression that a great many of you conservatives hate diversity, Neil. Which in my opinion proves your narrow-mindedness and provinciality. Be that as it may, you won’t succeed in trying to silence us (gays and atheists/agnostics) Neil. We’ve made it crystal clear that we’re here and we’re here to stay, whatever you say or do!!!!!
This is getting interesting. Frederick…I am wide awake. As I told you before….when you find God, there is no doubt that He exists. You asked me in an earlier text (November 27) what experiment I was talking about. It is this….spend 2 weeks calling on God and ask Him to show you if He exists. Ask Him to help you with your unbelief. Just try this as an experiment. Do in sincerely, as if you really want to know. Try it as a “scientific” experiment just for your own knowledge. Seek Him…look for Him, pray every day and night, and just see what happens. I believe you just might be surprised.
correction: Do it sincerely
As A Christian and Republican I believe that Homosexual persons should be allowed the same rights as so-called straight persons. God said that if a man who has a wife sleeps with another man as he does with his wife that’s the abomination. Homosexuality is Genetic not choice as some minsters like to preach. So give it a rest and treat them a you want to be treated.
P.S. I’m a straight man that knows there are circumstances that would turn me or anyone to same sex love and romance. So what’s the problem?
Yeah, great Charles, so you see that a Liberal and Agnostic person, such as I am, can fully agree on such an important matter with a Republican Christian. Isn’t that very encouraging?
I’ve got a (perhaps only slightly) better idea Barb. Why don’t you open a website enabling folk to dive into a healthy debate about this tricky matter. But then again Sodom etc regards merely a tiny part of the story concerning the “truth” of the bible in general. Creation, the stories of Abraham and Moses, Jesus’ life and death, his alleged resurrection, (etc, etc, etc), are all shrouded in endless layers of myth and speculation. So, what’s the point really of singling out that already heavily debated story about the veracity of Sodom & Gomorrah’s “destruction”? Just hop over to your Google or Yahoo box and you’ll be treated to a whole host of sites discussing the liberal as well as the conservative views on this matter. Nice initiative Barb, but will really add anything significant to what scholars have already “found” and published about? Well, um, surprise me with that new website!
That’s okay Frederick. I have put way too time and dedication into these studies to take my time on someone who belittles me. That is so disrespectful when I was only putting a hand out to you. So I will not bother or insult your intelligence again but let me tell you son, you just missed out on something I am sure you could have really appreciated. So God Bless you and have a great life.
Sorry Barb, really did not mean to offend you in any way. But, you know I’ve grown so totally weary with the idea that I should be glad and grateful for more and more and more information enabling me to defend (the legitimacy of) my sexual orientation. In my (current) opinion there is NOTHING to be defended. Conditions are what they are, period. I felt so sad a couple of weeks ago (and eventually mad even) to hear about all the nonsense the Houston City mayor-elect, my “dear friend” Anise, had to endure merely because of her being a lesbian. Conservative Christians were very quick to jump on the issue, totally ignoring the poor woman’s great talents as a public administrator. Aargh! Yeah, this is America in the 21st century. A shame and a disgrace to the civilized world. But OK, you’re right. Let’s put an end to the whole matter now. Attitude change is probably THE hardest task a psychologist could venture upon. So what am I sobbing about here. But like old Martin Luther King I do have a dream that one day it really won’t matter one way or another whatever “creed” one subscribes to: ho, het or bi. And yes, we’ll elect a President who’ll enter the White House with his or her (same-sex) lover and two adopted children. And that’ll bring back Ancient Athens, so to speak, where such an event would surely have been considered totally and absolutely normal. Hooray!!!
Ah, oh yes, have a nice, jolly Christmas and the finest year of your life to date all through 2010.
We find in the writings of his biographers … a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstitions, fanaticisms and fabrications.
– Thomas Jefferson, to William Short, August 4, 1822, referring to Jesus’s biographers, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
Ah, exactly Arti, that’s precisely what I’ve been trying to hammer home to our conservative friends posting here on this debate site. Thank you very much for the quote. But, of course, folk will just go on believing every piece of crap available out there. So long as they can keep their own most painful fears (notably of death and eternal nothingness) neatly at bay.
Why don’t the gay’s start their own ceremony instead of trying to change the true definition of marriage.They could call it garriage or whatever they come up with,then they could campaign for what ever rights they seek?LEAVE MARRIAGE ALONE!! It is not their or anybody elses right to change the true definition of Marriage!!
Here we go again, more sexually confused liberals wanting a same sex “marriage”. He is an idea: Why not have a law that makes it legal for Democrats to “marry” the same sex, as long as the are castrated! This will assure that this sick breed of misfits die out sooner than later! Maybe Obamme will give them an island somewhere they can live, and also set up hospitals for them when they are dieing of HIV.
Talk about a “sick breed of misfits”, Mr Ironman. Very, very “Christianly”, what you’re contending here….. Furthermore, on which planet have you been living the past two decades? Didn’t you know that HIV is not a “homosexual disease” at all? Contrary to what you conservatives so often suggest? Read up on your statistics and you’ll see that the vast majority of HIV patients are full breeders, aka heterosexuals, who kick babies into this world ready to be transported to foster homes and posing a fine burden to governments all over this planet? And, you should take a concentrated peek at the contents of our Constitution, because you don’t seem to know that marriage is most certainly not defined as a privileged, special union between a man and a woman. No, it’s just what you Conservative Christians are trying to ram down our throats, but we’re quite simply not buying. If you can’t stand the diversity (sexual, racial, etc) characterizing our Free Society, then move over to Iran or Saudi Arabia. I’m sure you’ll be able to enjoy your conservative “morals” to the full out there. Don’t forget to tell your wife she’ll be unable to leave her precious kitchen and enjoy the sun’s scorching heat without a male companion. Anyhow, it’ll be good riddance, and we Liberal Gays we will savor our peace here at home, at last. Leave us alone. Whether we want to marry or not is absolutely none of your business. More and more States are acknowledging our right to do so anyway, so as the Nigerians say, “you ah da losah, we ah da winnahs”. Lol.
Gay marriage divides GOP! That is no surprise. The Republican Party has been giving only lip service to conservatives and Christians for a long time. They are only interested in filling their pockets and supporting the really rich. When it comes to their real values money comes ahead of country. I have been a lifelong Republican, but no more. I hear that the Republicans are way down on fund raising from average folks. I guess that means I am not alone in turning away from the Republican Party
A vote for either the Republican or Democratic Party is a wasted vote since you do not get what you voted for. It is time for a party that represents the average working American & our small businesses against Global Corporations & their political servants (our current politicians)
“Majority of HIV patients are full breeders, aka heterosexuals” only because of the statics in Africa where men spend long times away from family in order to earn a living, and as a result heavily turn to prostitution. Here it is primary a homosexual disease. It is the life style in both cases.
A lot of bible beaters here, brimming with intolerance, bigotry, and hypocrisy. Marriage is the legal union between two people … male-female, male-male, female-female. Simple right? Sure is so whats the problem?
Ah, Xen U, another “fellow-liberal” (poor term; for want of better). Welcome aboard. Indeed, it’s so unbelievably simple: two consenting adults should be allowed to have their “existential liaison” rendered legal at any time. Period. All this headless blathering about Sodom & Gomorrah, etc is a thing of the past. Conservative Christian folk should keep their bible thumping neatly within their own circles. Have a very nice day, man.
And perhaps this whole thing is not at all about “conservatism” vs “liberalism”. These are hopeless clichés, which keep us going in circles all the time. Perhaps we’re quite simply dealing with a FAIRNESS issue here. Modern, civilized, 21th century citizens should realize very clearly that we’re not talking about contagious diseases here (homo vs heterosexuality). If that were the case homosexuality would have been virtually nonexistent, as the “straight option” has been very loudly advertised as the only sensible one for ages. Psychosexual development is a highly complex phenomenon and simplistic conservative morals won’t have any inluence whatsoever on its evolution based variability. Believe me.
Holly smokes Frederick get a grip on yourself or better yet have your partner get a grip on you, (no pun intended). Such a big phrase “Psychosexual development is a highly complex phenomenon”. You have a point thou, It’s always been my opinion that when two men poke each other or two woman swap plastic inserts that a psychosexual development has occurred and also a psychosomatic abnormality has taken place. This being very queer (no pun intended) to my simplistic conservative morals you will nether find me politically correct nor supporting your demented visionary evolutionary agenda.
And you can believe me.
Gay marriage will only result in the destruction of the real roots of or society which is the family unit!! One man and one woman!!! Gay marriage cannot procreate they can only clone, invitro fertilize a womans egg or adopt children. Therefore it is unnatural and it becomes a recruitment tool for more gay idealogy and indoctrinating of young cvhildren who are put into this invironment it is nothing more than recruitment not procreation!!!
The Bible is the Truth, the absolute, the standards by which we should live, our instruction book and above all It is The WORD OF GOD.
It is alive.
If you live by THE BIBLE, then you are living right.
If you live contrary to THE BIBLE, then you must be wrong.
Now you must choose the way that you want to live.
So its right to stone to death adulturers, people who shell fish, its right to own slaves. All of this is and more diabolical practices are living by the Bible
Ah yes. Another round of lies by the secular humanists. When will these morons learn? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
I also have to agree with Gerry Glen that if the government wants to give gays rights let the government deal with them and give them legal unions or civil unions not marriages. The only bad thing about this line of thinking is that it could lead to legalization of gay marriage via unions of this type? If gay people get married that is only a perversion of what God intended marriage to be which is between a man and a woman!!! The next thing you’ll see is people wanting to marry their pets, pedophilse wanting their rights to marry children or babies, muslims wanting their right to kill you for not believing in their false religion!!! My point being that there are alot of sick twisted views that people within these groups will try to impose on the majority of people who stand in opposition to these minorities and the furthering of their belifes and ideals within society!
Kill the gays, child rapists, and use them for bio-fuel.
Good graciousness George, one can always turn a line of reasoning into a totally brainless caricature. And IMO that’s precisely what you did. Please let me explain. Now, whether you marry a man of a woman, in both cases you’ll sign a “contract” with someone able to communicate with you on a fully EQUAL BASIS. That will not be the case when you succeed in “marrying” a pet, a child or a tree. I do hope you’re intelligent enough to understand that, right? Furthermore I’ll just repeat a crucial argument I’ve put forward above one more time. All these things you conservatives choose to idolize so stubbornly such as marriage and the bible are purely MAN MADE institutions as far as can be proven beyond any reasonable degree of doubt. You can keep contending that the bible was inspired by God and marriage is a sacred phenomenon (yes Gramps you’ve learned a thing or two here, haven’t you, despite your incredibly advanced age), but for Chrissakes where’s your damn proof? One might as well say that marriage was once invented, merely to protect women (who for ages weren’t allowed to generate their own sources of income) and children, who quite obviously cannot provide for themselves, from the brutal egotism of heterosexual men. But gradually you conservatives have blown the whole thing up to completely mythical proportions. Bible and marriage have been turned into veritable fetishes, one promising you a huge pie in the sky if you care to be as obedient as a herd a dumb cattle out there in the fields. The other promising quiet bliss for the rest of yer natural days. And by now we know what’ll come of it all, eventually…… Oh yes, lest I forget: the only thing you seem to interested in when writing yer filth about gays and lesbians is their sexual activities. So, tell me, who’re the “perverts” here, in fact??? Ah, booddidly’s got a very original and intelligent message for us here. I’m sure he very much admires his friends, the Televangelist Aldulterers who haller hellfire and brimstone behind their mikes just minutes before boarding their fancy cars for a nice, cozy afternoon with their secret mistresses….. Real men and very decent men, after all!
Oh I almost forgot to ask you, BOODIDLY, to donate a few dollars to your Church this month on account of the fact it has lost so many millions of dollars to pay off the parents of sexually abused children they thought were absolutely save with all those fine, kind, ever smiling priests and pious ministers……
For the prospect or practice of same-sex marriage, the issue (for me) remains a question: “why and how has the government become the custodian of marriage?”
In its origin, marriage was never a government institution; but rather, one of the church. No-fault divorce — or the emergence of divorce as a common practice — has so diluted marriage as to leave it vunerable to all manner of possibilities and definitions. Same-sex marriage is just another “marriage of convenience” made so my government custodians and the “licensing” rather than the intrinsic promise of marriage.
Marriage is fast becoming like the politician who tried to be all things to all people and became nothing to no one.
What a wonderful forum this is.Based on the postings in January alone it is nothing more than a bunch of homosexuals expressing their anger by denouncing and name-calling anyone who uses their own philosphy to express their viewpoint.But then again,this is the only way one can defend the homosexual “lifestyle”.Frederick is the worst.I read al of yor comments and have any logic.Like your rant about heterosexuals spreading HIV.How moronic and vicious use that bunch of verbal trash
Well Gilroy, Mr Bunch, I have the following surprise for you regarding heterosexuals and HIV/Aids, from a paragraph to be found in the Massachusetts HIV/AIDS Data Fact Sheet 2009.
• HIV diagnoses with male-to-male sex as the primary reported exposure mode increased from 41% in 1999 to 56% in 2008.
. From 1999 to 2008, the PROPORTION OF HIV DIAGNOSES AMONG FEMALES EXPOSED TO HIV THROUGH HETEROSEXUAL SEX with partners of unknown risk and HIV status (presumed heterosexual sex) increased from 30% to 48%.
So these are facts Gilroy, not dreamed up numbers. FORTY EIGHT PERCENT female heterosexual (non drug addicted) HIV diagnoses, Gilroy, in a State housing the wealthiest and – presumably – best educated US citizens. Think about it. Admittedly about 56% of gay men investigated were found infected, but that is far below the percentage you’re constantly throwing into our faces, i.e. around 100. Now, who’s the stupid moron here?
And one more point Gilroy. What surprises me time and again when conversing with my conservative fellow citizens is their lack of tolerance for criticism, whereas they’re very, very quick to slam others who disagree with their most precious points of view. You seem to find it quite normal for your conservative friends to call us gays “child molesters” deserving a swift death or wanting us to be transported to a far-away island, after having been castrated. And you want us to bow and thank you very much for such highly civilized remarks? Who do you think you are? Well, I can assure you that the “Pre-Stonewall days” are definitely over. (If you don’t know about the Stonewall riots in 1969, just hop over to your Google bar for some nice piece of historical education!). We won’t live any longer by the dictum of “don’t show, don’t tell”. Hypocrisy is for you conservatives who’re apparently still lingering in those nostalgic 1950’s. Wake up baby, this is 2010. You’ll have to get used to it.
Well,Frederick,now that I have your attention Mr. Chip on your shoulder,let me elaborate on facts concerning Aids and it’s transmission.But first,let’s get something straight.I did not use the word stupid, and I did not refer to any political group.If you want to have a debate on comments that you have already written and my response please leave out the rhetoric. Most of your comments that I have read have few facts and are mostly agenda driven misrepresentation of facts and name calling.More and more citizens are getting tired of the tactics that your like-minded friends have resorted to i.e. trying to force your outrageous behavior into parades that have had a traditional theme for centuries,or running through Churches during worship.Your lifestyle can never be forced on the majority.So you get used to it. And yes the majority spoke in California of all places.Citizens voted against homosexual marriage. Oh,but wait.we don’t care what the majority wants in a Democractic society. We will take it to court and hope that our hand picked judges will overturn the will of the people.As for tolerance.Is that something only your opposition is responsible for Mr. Chip. So the behavior I mentioned above is totally tolerant?
If you are still reading Mr. Chip, let me fill you in on a few things.First,I lived in California during the counter culture and sexual revolutions. I was invovlved enough to know everything that went on…i.e. I was there.I talked to everybody about everything, while still keeping my day job. Oh before I obliterate you with the real truth you should know that I never used the word ‘gay’ because, in an act of intolerance, it was stolen from the English language and used to mean something totally different.You’d be surprised at how many others agree.And to re-enforce my believe that it was an act of intolerance, another word was made up to label all those that did not choose to follow your lifestyle.All of a sudden we were “homophobic”. You see people were so tolerant that they tried too hard to accept.Are you still there Frederick? I am going to stop for now and let you absorb this. So talk about tolerance again if you must,but after you do I don’t want to hear it anymore. If you respond I will know that you care about the facts,and if you don’t I will share the facts with everyone else anyway.For forty years the facts have been kept from America. Only because we were tolerant
Well Mr Bunch Gillimore, having read the garbled hodgepodge you cared to leave here on our Forum.I now really begin to doubt you understand the meaning of the word FACT. If you think you blessed us with facts in your bunch of brainless gurgling here above, well think twice. I haven’t found even one single line presenting an objective fact here. I’ve been sooooo nice to gather a few numbers for you concerning the incidence of HIV among your lot (you Fine, Sunday Service attending Breeders), but you (very wisely, I’d dare say) did not dare to respond to my argument. Good for you. You probably are too much of an ignorant coward to reflect on the truth of an argument running squarely counter to your own. So yes, we call ourselves gay these days, but that’s how we feel: proud and gay and bold. Not the least prepared to let ourselves be downgraded by Hillbilly, Bigot Morons. Not anymore: we talk back and if necessary we fight back. Don’t you ever forget that. We’re more and more openly on the Networks, the Streets, the Theatre, the Political Arena, everywhere. Poor you, I’d wear sunglasses, even at night if I were you, so you don’t have to sigh and grind your pretty teeth every time you see gay boys or men walking happily hand in hand in the streets and/or across your TV screen. Well, happy heterosexual dreams my dear. I’ll remember you in my prayers to Aphrodite, rest assured. Bye, bye……
Oh, and come to think of it Mr Bunch, sometimes I really don’t understand why so many gays want to “board the marriage vessel”, so to speak It (i.e. marriage) is such a totally outdated, middle class anachronism, invented by your Church Leaders to get a nice, tight grip on their flock. I’m not married myself, thank Heavens, but thorougly enjoy the civil union the Municipality granted me a decade ago, so you won’t get my savings when I leave this earthly plane. Hooray!
Ah, I forgot to address the point of this whole California circus. But I gather you’ve already figured out that the “unholy” (no pun intended) proposition was massively backed by very conservative Catholic Hispanics who are nothing short of willing slaves of the Roman Church and its priests, notwithstanding the fact that so many of those hypocritical black skirts have raped their daughters for centuries on end. How pathetic!
Well Mr F.H. Chip at least you stopped your whining about tolerance.But I am already King of this forum. Your dribble in your last comments proves to all how insecure you really are. And as far as facts go in my previous comment I said I let you respond to that first.I didn’t want to tax your brain,because it’s already overwhelmed with hatred and moronic thoughts that you call facts.
Now to the real facts.In the early 70′s Californian’s read almost daily about bath houses in San Francisco that were meeting places for homosexuals.Soon the reports were about health issues and concerns at city councel meetings were raised.All public ares are subject to health standards and since there were no standards at these bath houses and after a dozen warnigs and inspections nothing changed, they were closed down(after being fumigated).But it was too late.At this same time reports started surfacing about a new disease spread between homosexuals only.To this day all reports,except those made up by you Frederick,state that this disease started in San Francisco and New York City amongst homosexuals.Most articles go on to say that national and international travel by homosexuals was the main reason for wide spread transmission of AIDS.To make matters worse,it took at least a year for researchers to develope an accurate test for AIDS.By this time it spread to mainsteam America due to drug addicts sharing needles,homosexuals selling infected blood to blood banks,tranfusions,and bi-sexual men.As we know bi-sexual means a homosexual who really doesn’t care who he or she is with.You get the picture folks.For a whole year Aids was spread through the whole soceity before heterosexuals realized that they needed to be tested.Many experts and a whole lot of citizens believe that tens of thousands of people could have been spared the consequences of this disease if homosexuals had followed warnings about it.But no they thought it was just a trick to make them change their lifestyle, and people like Frederick just didnn’t give a damn, because they hate Christians and anyone who doesn’t go along with their lifestyle.They were acually the stnewallers.That is only one true fact,and Frederick can’t dispute it so he’ll respond in his usual vicious way.The report you cited about rise in HIV is a fine example of you using only the facts you want to use.The report I read went on to say that most of the people would probably not tell us if they did drugs, and has no idea how many of them or their partners were bi-sexual.Those are the rest of the facts.Another fact about your ranting about marriage and the Bible. It does say marriage is between a man and woman.Even you have heard about the Ten Commandments. Gosh I think I remember one saying something about Honoring thy mother and father.Maybe you read it to say father and father or even mother and mother.But no, it says father and mother.Facts about the clergy. I’ll start by saying it is too bad that the Church put restrictions on people that they could not ever have sex.And last time I checked the only close contact they had was with other men or boys.So obviousy it was boys that were involved.It doesn’t make it right, but it doesn’t justify homosexuals taking advantage of children and people that suffered some sexual trauma in their life.But how else can the homosexual ‘cult’ get new members.Like you said.All of the homosexuals came out of the closet long ago.If you can’t have children of your own to indoctrinate, I guess you just have to indoctrinate,or molest, other peoples children.Yeah Frederick you are an upstanding individual.Let’s see are there any other myths you have that I can disspell.You can’t win this debate with me because I was there when the facts were made and I will never be a coward to tell it like it is .No Frederick you are the coward when you didn’t say no to the homosexual that molested you. Have a nice life!!!! Gilroy out.
Oh by the way your response to Californian’s denouncing homosexual marrige is typical. Don’t address the issue. Make up some screwed up, moronic trash in an attempt to divert from the facts and denograte anyone you can.You are so transparant.You are not worth further response.You have destroyed all credibility in this conversion.
By the way,my Christian brothers who take the word of the Good Book so literally: The Bible also has a passage that says that thou shall not wear garments of mixed fabrics. So, those of you with mixed knits, Jesus is looking at what you are wearing, and it’s making HIM SICK!!!
So, let him who is without sin to cast the first stone.
I am a member of a welcoming Christian church. We don’t discriminate against people based on their race, color, or sexual orientation. And here’;s a shock: We don’t presume to know and do not always keep in mind what our congregants might do between the sheets.
By the way, where are Denise and Barbee? They were fun comic relief. I think they are Carrie’s mothers reincarnated!
Nice try DC.You just proved you are the one wearing mixed knits.How dare you speak for Jesus. He would never say somebody made him sick.As for your point about discrimination when the heck did sexual orientation get added to that list.When it was politically expediant.There is no way you can compare homosexuality with a race or creed.It is a modern day lifestyle.That’s all. The fact that the majority of Americans said they don’t care what you do in your own home does in no way designate homosexuals as a group deserving equal rights.And no one can change the facts.I am insulted that homosexuals think that they are the same as people who were born in their own country as a race and have struggled to fit into another country.
Holy Heavens guys, first we heard that AIDS was spread right from the lab of some crazy scientist, eager to wipe out of the Black Race completely once and for all. Now it’s the “S.F.-gay community” who did it. Next thing we know it’ll be the Chinese authorities who wanted (and are still dying) to take over the US territory, that decided to treat us to a fine menu of viruses (HIV, SARS flu, etc).
And Gilroy, where did you attend high school? Somewhere in Northern Siberia, or downtown Timbuktu probably. You quite obviously don’t even have the faintest idea about the history of homosexuality. Well for your education I can tell you that it was quite normal in Ancient Greece, Rome, Persia, the Turkish Ottaman Empire, etc, etc. Read up on global social history instead of blathering a clump of backward bullshit here on the Forum. Homosexuality is far from a modern day lifestyle thingy; it’s of all times and all cultures and it’s here to stay, despite all your harassment and conservative babbling. So yes, gays have been and are still claiming their fully legitimate civil rights and they’ll keep doing it as loudly as possible. Let’s be crystal clear about that. If you don’t like it, simply take refuge to a tightly closed Amish commune or, alternatively, the exciting town of Riad. They’ll gladly welcome you there.
And, oh yes, there’s that brilliant myth that gays are significantly more likely to abuse children, has been extensively addressed by scientific investigators with mixed results. But there’s one very, very thorough and also shrewdly critical article I’d like to recommend, offering an overview of studies, each with its own peculiar bias. See
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html
You’ll see that a superficial reading of each of the particular studies could easily lead to the conclusion that, yes, those wretched gays are a bunch of veritable child (or adolescent) predators. But an objective and intelligent analysis will lead you in exactly the opposite direction. As far as I could discern the authors of the overview rightfully point out that “Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as representing a danger to the majority’s most vulnerable members. For example, Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices. Black men in the United States were often lynched after being falsely accused of raping White women”.
The authors of the main, overview article rightfully conclude that,
“The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so”.
Just read the article and be duly informed. So, that’s what surprises me in so-called modern America these days: the ease with which totally banal clichés are being advertised on the internet as well as the right-wing networks. Uggh.
And you say I did not address the California issue. If you think, my dear, I’ll have to conclude there’s something amiss with your eyes or you’re in full denial. I’ll repeat: of course, gay marriage would be denounced in Calif, considering the whole mass of ultra-conservative Hispanic voters, slavishly following Rome’s dictate. But quite apart from the outcome, I really don’t see why a referendum should have been issued in the first place. In Spain and Portugal where, thank Goodness, genuinely modern socialist governments are in office, bills regarding gay marriage were very swiftly passed in Parliament. In backward US it’ll take a few more years to be settled in some states, but sooner or later justice will prevail, rest assured!
Consider: IF homosexuality were normal, in all probability, we would not be having any debate, discourse or other discussion. We simply wouldn’t BE.
Well George, is Health Care Reform normal? Is old-fashioned, orthodox religion normal? Is the possession of handguns normal? A substantial portion of the American people will, probably, say yes to all three questions. Now, as you supposedly know, these are all heavily debated subjects in the US AD 2010! Yet, thousands upon thousands, if not millions of (just “ordinary”) Americans, won’t understand what the fuss is all about. Can you imagine? So, the question whether homosexuality is “normal” or not will probably never be answered satisfactorily for a vast heap of American folk. That’s how things are in this country. It can’t be helped, I’m afraid. And to be really, really honest: I can’t be bothered. I’m not interested in the normality of homosexuality. I’m just claiming my legitimate, constitutional rights to hop into bed or share my precious life with whomever I like, provided I’m not violating any straightforward US law. That’s all. Capice??
Hey Freddie.You just have to fill most of your dribble with personal attacks and idiotic comments, so I will only address two points.Of coarse you’d drag ole Gregory’s research into the conversation. He is as bias toward homosexuality as any researcher/lecturer is on a topic they have made a lifetime of money off of.The big shame here is that the APA did a 180 on their views about a homosexual gene.In May 2009, they rejected the theory of people being homosexual at birth.The sad part is they pushed that BS on us for twenty years. As for the article you referred to he sure is good at fitting his technical and medical definitions to his bias.If he took three months off and played golf and then read what he wrote he would question his own sanity. Again your comments on California voters is filled with delusional junk about Hispanics.You should be more tolerant Freddie.On the history lesson, I only talk about modern times and what pertains to our life here in America.Sure other countries include homosexuals.They also include dictators,drug cartels,socialist forms of government, terrorists.What’s your point? Oh, we have to do it too.By the way.Is Gregory homosexual???
I think the moderator should have pulled the plug on this forum long ago.Just look at the filth and hate thoughout.And it has never followed topic Regardless of how my words sound or you perceive me, I don’t hate anyone. I have my opinions that are based on life experiences and discussion as well as unbiased research.I am real clear about my convictions, and won’t back down because some don’t like it So far nothing,including portraying me and others as hate-mongers,uneducated, and without facts, has changed the debate.Nor can it. Trying to make America change its laws to give rights to a lifestyle based on sexual preference would allow any cult i.e. religious,neo-nazi,atc to demand the same.There’s really no more discussion here. I will check back from time to time, because I don’t want the religius right verbally abusing Freddie, nor do I want him verbally abusing nice people like Barbie.
First, Jesus said NOTHING about same gender love and the Old Testament stuff is fuzzy and irrelevant; lumped in with the Levitican junk about diet and mixed fabric, Be reminded that your homophobic blabbering is perfectly matched in the vile delusions of fundamentalist Islamics. PRECISELY the same ugly and inhumane hatefulness!
We two have been blessed beyond our comprehension with a joyous life together!
Ward and George
54 Years together
And yet,
Strangers before the law!
Being queer is not a alternative lifestyle it is a deviant lifestyle.
here in wissconsin we the people vote are governor an state lawyer said we wrong he made it law made me sick thats how we do things here we vote he does what he whats to.we do not matter but then most people here dont care. no one whats to stand up no guts.
Jeffey, genius, Being “queer” is not a lifestyle at all, my dear, it’s a state of mind. You’ve got one as well. What’s so special about that? A lifestyle, for instance is, sharing your days and nights with someone else. And, once again, who that is or will be is NOBODY’S BUSINESS, provided you honor your state’s laws.
If one is a Christian and studies you will find there is one thing in scripture that makes God Through up (puke) and that is 2men or 2women is sexual relations.It’s really not the way we were created to be.It is althoug an indication of how morally corrupt we have become in the area of sex.
Only our Creator can give us unalienable rights. He alone has that power and prerogative.
People claiming the “homosexual rights”, “NAMBLA child porn and molestation rights”, “abortion rights”, etc. are claiming no one but Satan endorses and gives, but without the right to do so.
Jesus made it clear, in his debate with the Pharisees over divorce, “3 ¶ The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 “So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
God has nowhere joined man to man or woman to woman.
By sexual intercourse two become one flesh. When it goes on and on from one lover to another; heterosexual or homosexual, it creates a major problem; AIDS and other STDs are rampant because of it, as well as divorce, envy, murder and other sins. God was and is right!
Thou shalt not commit adultery!
whta does gay marriage do to you? really? it doesnt affect your life. it just makes those who were born gay uncomfortable. it was how they were born. it’s not like they asked for it. and if you dont like it dont look at it
Sorry for you Wesley, but all that rhetoric about Jesus who said this and God who did that, has been merely put in there (in what you call your bible) by Clerical Politicians in order to get a tight grip on “us” ordinary men and women. Read up on the way the bible was constructed almost two millennia ago. The fierce political wars that have been waged between several factions, each with their own power driven agenda, have definitively shaped the bible’s final contents. The whole hypocritical charade about The (so-called) Truth and Divine Inspiration has been so often exposed by scholars as mere BS to impress the gullible, the needy and the hopelessly desperate. Just enter the words “Bible as Pseudo Truth” and study just a few of the hits presented. I’m quite sure you’ll be shocked by the fact that the ground on which the “truth” of the bible supposedly stands can be said to be incredibly shaky. See for yourself and be surprised. And, stop being a total nuisance to us gays with your endless bible thumping. We’ve heard your stories often enough and indeed, enough is enough. We won’t reenter our age-old closets.
As possibly the only one here who is under 30 I have to say this is a non-issue for us. We belive one should be able to marry the one they love, regardless of sex. The modern age is upon us and these anti-gay rageaholics and their shelf date expired ideas will fade away. Most of the anti-gay comments seem to be religiously based. But just because you ‘believe’ in something doesn’t mean it exists. You are the products of another era that is passing. And the sooner the better.
Very good John U. Your comment is fully in line with feelings and ideas I’ve been trying to get across for months already. America is absolutely obsessed with religion and that – in a sense – proves the poor quality of higher education in many parts of this country. Very, very sad. I do hope President Obama will do something significant about this state of affairs and preferably very soon. Indeed this gay marriage issue is and should certainly be a total non-issue. This a new millenium, this is the year 2010 and this is a fully secular state. Let’s keep that firmly in mind, please.
My morals will not change. Some in our society will change their morals to include an anything goes clause, but my morals will be the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I will side with the everlasting moral code/actions.
Gay, is just another term for an individual that does not have the capability to live in a moral manner or attract an opposite sex. Eliminate the weak. My morals will not change either.
The need for Gays to win in this matter is essentially a narcissistic one.
I read an MSNBC article gauging the reactions of the “community” when California, I think it was California, struck down the so called legalization.
One woman was bemoaning the fact that she and her lover would continue to “suffer” the disdainful judgemental looks in public places that caused great suffering for her, as they were often confused for sisters, or simply life long pals. Imagine the insult! Are you two sisters? Horrors!
She further whined she could not scream to the world the true nature of their relationship and that Marriage would bestow acceptability to their relationship. A kind of mangled father-knows-best world magical thinking mentality. And it is schitzophrenic, because that community completely disavows the tradition from which marriage arises, i.e. a formalized Religious rite whereby a man and woman are given consent by their tribe to rear the next generation. But that is just an unimportant footnote isn’t it.
What gays want is nonsense on its face, as Marriage does not guarantee respectability even in the normal situation.
But, as with the woman in the MSNBC article, the issue is what the world thinks of her. I suspect in every case these folks, who want flout Common Sense, are after just that, forcible acceptance, or public deference, for what ironically, are supposed to be private actions.
after 140 years the same state rights/federal rights. Liberty doesnt state what liberty for who specificaly , it just simply states liberty for all. Dont that mean I can disagree with my government, I can marry whom I choose, I can join the military and lose a limb for libery or worse lose my life,(which many have choosen), and we call them heros. They would agree libery for all. Man and a man or a women and a women or a man and a women isnt that liberty also? We all pay tax’s we all want better then what our parents had isnt that liberty of chose also. Why then cant this nation have what our fore fathers wanted us to have -Liberty for all- and mean all.
Oh ,By the way the mike what belives in liberty for all is a retired military man from viet-nam thru the gulf war and a 100% disable veteran and a repblican/independent if any one wish’s to know. So I have paid my price for liberty for all. Have you?
A marriage license is not an inalienable right. It is a civil right granted by government. Homosexuals should be able to practice perversion in the privacy of their own home between consenting adults. Many citizens still believe that anal sex between two men is a form of degeneracy. I think voting state by state is fair. If not in their favor homosexuals can enter into a contract similar to a prenuptual agreement defining what ther relationship will be. Or as prior to a marriage license write their names in the Bible and the date of the union. That is my viewpoint.
homosexual activity is growing half of all catholic priest are homosexual what are we going to do with them we should treat them with compassion and understanding like all other sinners,we no right to judge any one only our OUR HOLY FATHER can judge us.
I think we need to realize one of the most important freedoms
we have is separation of Church and State. This law is fundamental
to allow us to practice to worship as we wish. There are thousands of different christian denominations. I would hate to see one in control that was not mine and forced their believes apon me. There
was a time when speaking in toungs was a crime.
Hmmm…I see the nasty liberals and souless atheists are here. Well, no matter I will still throw in my two bits. I suppose it is worth more than the usual name calling childishness.
I believe states should decide on same sex marriages, not the Federal Govt. Same as prostitution and the other questionable sexual activities. It can be decided within a state whether the people living there want that or not and thus people can live there or not. By the way I also believe smoking should be allowed if a proprietor wants that in their business, simply because people would decide whether to go there or not. The military does not need to allow gays to proclaim their sexual preferences. Why do that? So gays can actively seek out other gays? I don’t think that is the place for that for all the obvious reasons. It simply breeds trouble and we have enough already. Our society has taken a turn for the worse and it has been coming for many years. This will all come to pass as the majority of this great nation take back the reins. You must remember.. We reap what we sow.
Ah, talk about NAME CALLING, EVE! How would you qualify the terms nasty liberals and soulless atheists then? Very nice compliments aren’t they. You know, it’s so funny to see how easily religious people here in this so-called civilized country accuse Muslims of being intolerant fanatics and look how they themselves treat their Non-believing fellow citizens. It’s precisely this kind of folk who’d love to see our atheist and agnostic heads rolling on the executioner’s block, should this be a country as full of Ayatollahs, high on their “compassionate” (…..) thrones as in Iran and Saudi Arabia. Yes, tell me about those fine conservative Christians worshopping their great god of Love…. And, apparently it’s quite alright to kill thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Irak, but it dead wrong to be openly gay in an army of pathetic losers (anyway). What a joke.
(words removed for offensive content)
Do a search and read the step by step instructions Mr Luntz gives your representatives . You will feel dirty and violated kind of like being embraced by Cantor, But dont worry because church is right around the corner and thats where you should get your information from today on.
As you will read Mr Luntz takes some extreme liberties with facts and reality when developing the strategies that have fooled many. So dont
feel alone everyone fell for it. Let me know what you think after reading it
1) Marriage is social custom, recognition of a relationship, a religious ceremony.
2) There are widows, perhaps each others bridesmaids, who like each others company, want to care for each other particularly in emergencies that need a legal recognition of this state of affairs.
3) There are disabled veterans, divorced with needs that can be met with mutual assistance supported by law,
4) The 1st amendment prohibits “the establishment of religion or prohibits the free exercise thereof; …”
5) Therefore there should be a prohibition of all civil marriages and only civil unions for all. Marriage should be the sole prerogative of your faith tradition. If your faith doesn’t like the idea, great. If your faith supports it, it’s none of our business.
Minor detail but each and every state would require a change to its law recognizing civil union spouses as having the same rights as married couples. Better alternative as Marraige is already a civil status let the religions refer to it as Holy Matrimony, definately has religious conotation to the phrase which non religious people would really want no part of. and as it has no legal ramifications then the churches can impose whatever restrictions each individual sect requires. Same Faith, opposite sex
What this Country and many of its citizens is missing is RESPECT and COURTESY and COMMON DECENCY toward ones fellow man.GOD gave us the choice of being a SAINT or SINNER but many of those religious believers and those who believe that they have holey than tho MORALS demand that you be a saint by trying to pass laws that forces you to be a saint thus taking the right away from us that GOD gave us and they do this by pass hundreds of laws that we must live by but GOD only gave us TEN COMMANDMENTS to live by. With this being said separation of church and state doesn’t mean that you cant say a pray to start school or the pledge of allegiance to the flag what it means is you respect those that do and those that don’t want to. And for this reason I say that there is two parts of separation of church and state 1. Our government doesn’t pick our religious sect for us and @. We don’t make our religious beliefs our political beliefs and force others to live by are own beliefs. What we need to support is the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
If this is a democracy then we the people have decided we don’t want to redefine the meaning of words just to please deviants. “Marriage” has always meant the joining of a male and female… and this is normal and good. Changing the term marriage to mean two guys having abnormal sex no more changes marriage than if we renamed a rose a thistle. A rose by any other name is still as sweet. You hijack the term “marriage” we’ll just come up with a different term for it.
In 200 years people will look back at the 21st century and wonder why those people long ago who had the ceremony of pósadh were called married which is now such an ugly word. I pulled an Irish word for “marriage” out of my hat but if the evil progressives change the meanings of words… we’ll just drop those words and use other words.
Gay used to be a very popular girls name. Homosexuals ruined that name. Where the word once meant happy and lively it now means deviant sex. Is this hate speech? Nope, just the truth. Those that would consider this to be hate speech are the same people who are filled with hate… but have changed the definition of the word “hate” to mean ‘anyone who says bad(naughty) things about the progressive movement.
Lenin called Christians evil, so did Mao, as well as did Hitler, Che, Stalin, and Margaret Sanger. They tried to shut us up as well. Sound familiar?
Good graciousness, MASTER ERIC is telling us something very, very new. Ha, ha, ha. Eric boy, just set your timer for an hour or two and start reading all those posts presented above, from about five months ago on. And be surprised, guy. We’ve had this type of back and forth conversation a thousand times before. But OK, for your information I’ll fill you in on a few points you still don’t seem to understand very well. Your definition of Marriage is a totally anachronistic one, that lost its static meaning sometime during the early 90s of the previous century, my man. So, I don’t know your current age, of course, but if you’re over 70 I’ll forgive you your ignorance. Bye, bye. Furthermore the word gay, in its contemporary meaning, has nothing to do with the act of (homo)sex per se, but with the tendency to both Love & Lust (for) persons of the same sex. But apparently it’s very characteristic of you conservative Neanderthals to associate the term (gay) SOLELY with BARE SEX. Once again for your information: wanting to marry someone or simply wanting to be romantically involved with some other person (of either sex) encompasses much, much, much more than sex alone. Maybe this is quite different for you, but alright shall we consider that your very, very personal perversion, buddy? OK? Great!
You have ALL missed a couple of very important points:
1) Most Christians would be fine with “domestic partnership agreements” or “civil union agreements”. The problem is the gay community is hung up on the word “marriage”. even though marriage and civil unions will produce the same results, gays won’t be happy until they can say they’re married.
2) Marriage originated as a religious custom. Somehow, the government decided to get involved and, just like everything else they touch, they screwed it up. If the government was taken out of the marriage equation, we wouldn’t have this problem. People could marry whoever they wanted to marry and it would be recognized by the church.
I believe marriage is between one man and one woman but I have no problem with civil unions.
actually the earliest known marriages were of political orientation to firm a political alliance and had little or nothing to do with religion
(Almost) Fully Agreed Barry. This whole thing about Marriage being considered so very special by a number of really hysterical gays, totally beats me. Indeed, if doing the “Civil Union” thing will get you exactly the same rights married hetero couples are enjoying these days (INCLUDING THE RIGHT TO ADOPTION!!!), why keep fussing forever about marriage ceremonies and marriage lines for ourselves? Get real, please.
2) But I don’t care a damn about recognition by the Church (which Church, anyway). I really don’t need a preacher or priest waving his arms over mine and my lover’s heads in order to have the feeling of being married at last. Sod off, please. However, if you MUST have some sacred ceremony, there are thousands of Liberal preachers out there willing to do the hocus-pocus for you for a few bucks. Just look them up in yer Yellow Pages. Lotsa luck!
Civil unions (civil marriage) were established in 1989 within Denmark. If the gays want to marry, let them. Today, in every democracy, the civil government does what it wants, based on the politics of politicians, absolutely, nothing doing with the Laws of God. For this reason we have abominable laws that approve, even encourage, evil practices, such as: abortion, divorce, adultery, homosexuality and much more.
In my opinion, homosexuality is a cancer in our society.
Welcome to the veritable replica of Sodom & Gomorrah.
Well, well…here we go again. I also believe the states should be dealing with the gay marriage issue…leave the fed gov’t. out of it. But, in my view, being gay…I have no problem with the word “marriage” being left out of it. Use “Civil Union”…with ALL of the same rights as male/female marriage. Equality, means just what it says. Totally equal. I honesly believe if a gay couple works, pays taxes, goes to the mall, the gym, the grocery store, goes to the park, owns their home, cuts the grass, cleans their house…etc…exactly like ANY straight couple, they should have the exact same rights and equality as a married couple. This is a civil issue, not a christian issue. I see no reason anyone should see gay marriage/civil unions, or whatever you want to call it as anything other than just what a male/female marriage is…nothing but a legal process, that takes a liscense to be legal. You do not have to have a church function at all. Divorces (now resting at 50% for straight couples)are a LEGAL issue, not a church issue, why would any marriage (straight or gay)be anything but a legal issue? Sounds kinda UN-equal to me.
No Mr Davis, I’ll just say one more time: It’s Religion that’s grown to be a Full Cancer in this World. It’s religion that has brought untold amounts of suffering and injustice into this world. Look at what’s happening in Iran and in Northern Ireland. People who dare to call themselves devout Believers are cutting each other’s throats without batting a single eye. Christians, Muslims, Jews, the whole lot. I do hope with all my heart that gradually with the advancement of Human Evolution, religion will be definitely kicked into a thing of the past.
I know Freddie doesn’t need help defending himself, but some of you who use religion in your arguement should really temper your passion.Your belief is important, but quoting relevant passages from the Bible is better in this debate.I have an issue with those of you who still think this is a civil issue.That’s really convenient,but this is a Constitutional issue.If you have read my previous comments and don’t want to believe it google the parts I referred to and read it for yourself.This whole thing will be decided by the Supreme Court and I hope it is soon. As for you Ward in Hawaii I laugh when I hear the word homophobe.That was made up years ago to scare mainstream America into looking the other way.Now it is only used by those that don’t have any other arguement.You don’t hear Freddie calling people that.And I don’t give a dang how many years you and ‘what’s his name’ have been together.It is irrelevant.
Ah, our Gillie’s here again. And he really knows what’s relevant and what not, such as quoting passages from the Bible. I wish he were here to hear my laughing my pants off. You’d think we were still doing horses and carts instead of fast and safe Toyota’s…… No, no Gilman, go meditate on yer mountain top with yer Bible. We’ve got no use for it anymore in 2010. Indeed, let the Supreme Court decide. It’s a secular, not religiously biased (and nowadays mostly Liberal) institution, after all. So I simply can’t wait for them to voice the final verdict. We don’t need so-called mainstream (and very middle class, bible biting) America to interfere. Let the black gowned gods decide; they have been especially educated for such a job, I dare say.
That’s right Freddie.Just go by the law like the Supreme Court will and the voters of California will prevail.And the ruling will stop all these frivolous lawsuits.It is logical that someone like you who thinks the universe revolves around you would ridicule and condescend those that are unselfish enough to beleive in God.I’m not entrenched in religion enough to care about you.You are actually the cave dweller here.Your wierd twisted whining about Christians sounds like something right out of the Old Testiment.How ironic!!!
Yeah Gillie, that hurts, eh, exposing all the misery and deception you hypocritical Believers have bestowed upon us. But as I said before, Evolution will take care of you. Before long your superstitious delusions will have been wiped out by the course of mankind’s necessary development towards that of a fully rational species, devoid of all the genetic garbage that brought about yer religious babbling and ranting during the past forty something millennia. And, unselfish you say? Ha, yes, unselfish enough to think you’ll score a nice chunk of eternal bliss in your so-called heaven after they’ve thrown your body into a hole or an oven. And still, so many of you are hopelessly fearful of death, because deep down you know that you’re deceiving yourselves and the only thing that awaits you after they’ve closed your eyes is EMPTINESS, nothing more, nothing less. Oh yes and about that Supreme Court thing: I gather those men and women up there in DC are fully modern intellectuals and not a horde of illiterate and barely literate immigrants (and their offspring) following the tyrannical dictates of the Unholy Roman Church. Got it? Yeah? Fantastic.
Freddie.You are like a mindless robot repeating the same B.S. over and over when it comes to religion.You are seriously delusional to think the law will change because you think you are part of a new wave. For every one of me there are three grandchildren that don’t believe your BS either.And I haven’t influenced them at all.I have at least thirty years left to my life.More than enough time to see laws passed to assure that there will be no same sex marriage as long as America stands. I call on all who read this that beleive as I do to make sure our brothers and sisters recognize the consequences of the homosexual agenda and make sure Washington does not give in because it is convenient
Look who’s talking about mindless garbage here. Apparently, you’ve done your “objective research”, bothering your grandchildren with your hateful, nonsensical agenda. But I beg you to do some simple counting Gillie (if you’re still able to do so, considering your advanced age): Massachusetts, Iowa, Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine. And now we’ll tickle your “intelligence” for a few seconds Gilboy: what do these States have in common? Yeah, good boy, you’ve got it exactly right. That’s only a very modest start, my dear. I must grant you that one. But meanwhile I urge you to read a (one-page) article on the Supreme Court’s ruling in 1958 regarding the ban on interracial marriage still proudly maintained in Virginia in AD 1958. Well, buster, where do we stand nowadays on that very same matter? Another challenge for your grey matter! So, good Christian man, I’ve got about another 40 years to trot around on this planet and I can tell you that I’m very hopeful about the sense and sensibility of “THE American People”, assuming such a phenomenon exists at all: sexual bigotry will largely be a thing of the past in approx. three(?) decades. Anyway, I’m quietly awaiting my adopted son and son in law’s wedding day in (let’s say) 2035.
Happy reading, by the way. Oh, and did you know that 18.000 gay couples are STILL LEGALLY MARRIED in California? Unbelievable, eh??? I’ll send good old Arnie Schwarzenegger a nice, flaming card for Valentine.
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/does-the-u-s-constitution-already-make-gay-marriage-legal/legal-issues/2009/07/09/4137
Being gay is alright with me. What you do behind closed doors is your business. If a gay man/women would like to serve the Armed forces and die or be a hero for this country, I’m all for it. I don’t care if you’re black, asian, white, or gay.
Frederick H says:
February 10, 2010 at 3:59 pm
No Mr Davis, I’ll just say one more time: It’s Religion that’s grown to be a Full Cancer in this World. It’s religion that has brought untold amounts of suffering and injustice into this world. Look at what’s happening in Iran and in Northern Ireland. People who dare to call themselves devout Believers are cutting each other’s throats without batting a single eye. Christians, Muslims, Jews, the whole lot. I do hope with all my heart that gradually with the advancement of Human Evolution, religion will be definitely kicked into a thing of the past.
As to religion being cancer. When you decide to mix up your church leaders, Warlords, Empire leaders, Country leaders, and so on with the regular people, you even label yourself a cancer to society if you have faith. It really doesn’t make you look good. This issue should be up to the states. read on..
“First Amendment – Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise therof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” We do not promote suffering in the name of ALLAH, GOD Fredrick.
Secondly, Thomas Jefferson wrote on the federal judiciary;
“It is working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing it’s noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall be usurped from the states, and the government of all be consolidated into one.
This plays into the Openly Gay Federal Judicial Nominee. . . Before long this issue will not even be up to the states.
One more thing. The rights of the people of the United States were granted to us as GOD Given rights. Gay marriage isn’t GOD Given. If you do not have faith, fine whatever. Go back to en gram and ridding yourself of them, and pursing your path to enlightenment, “the bridge to total freedom” where each stage your senior member can hook you up to an Electropsychometer, so you can eventually become an operating fat-ton, so that maybe one day you can communicate with animals and ultimately move inanimate objects at will! And do people of Scientology believe that 75 million years ago a galactic evil warlord Xe-nu, dumped 13 trillion aliens from other other planets into the earth volcanoes and then vaporized them with H-Bombs? And the radio active souls from these vaporized aliens continue to enter into our bodies creating engrams causing false ideas about GOD, Psychiatry and Christ and that’s why we have to purge ourselves from all these engrams?
sorry for the spelling.
Or maybe your an atheist… You talk about evolving from religion to being GODS from human advancement. Or at least that was my interpretation.
You know, I do have a problem with gays. And wow, 18k gays in California! Isn’t that the good ol’ state with a $500 billion dollar deficit? Yay! But just remember…
ah he-yuk yuk…California is dead, and progressives like you are destroying this country. I suppose you want the government to bail them out to! Oh, and now the gays can migrate to another state. Stay the F*ck out of mine!
Freddie, Freddie, Freddie
It is so easy to get you raging out of your mind.Chill dude or you will be dead long before you can doctrinate your psuedo grandson. I was totally kidding about talking to my grandkids.They are only eight and I don’t want you or me talking to them about sexuality.I don’t want teachers bothering them either,and thank goodness my kids agree.Yeah Freddie that entire last comment was meant to get you goat.And man did it work.
G.Davis
Progressives will only destroy this country if we let them. That is why it is so important that we stop looking the other way while people like Freddie slowly subvert the law.Last time I read the Constitution homosexuals were in the lowest classification under Equal Protection and they always will be.No Suprem Court will ever classify sexual orientation the same as race,creed,or gender.The people would never allow someone like that to be appointed.By the way you don’t pull any punches do you.
“like I’m John McCaine’ daughter and I’m a progressive republican and I think that the old people are stupid, and only young people start revolutions, and like only the younger people understand what Obama is trying to do and like that’s why the younger generation don’t gel with the old people’s tea party revolution cause they like just don’t get it and so like, now the younger generation should be educating the older generation about what they should know, and how they should think cause like, old people are just dumb…. like ya! Oh, and like, the bible is just so outdated and like we have evolved so much from Jesus that like it should be okay to be gay, because humans evolve, so like so should the bible versus, or like the way we all use to interperate the meaning of marriage as being between man and women as one flesh… Seriously like it should be ok to be one putter and another putter as one hole.”
Ah well, Gil, at least you’ve got a bit of a sense of humor within your conservative bigot skin. Praise your good lord for it. Anyway, you can tell your children grandchildren, nieces and nephews whatever you like, buddy. This boy here just doesn’t care a damn. America already constitutes the back alley of the Western world as far as the level of education in this country is concerned. So, enjoy raising another batch of full dimwits for the glorious future of our “Great” Country. The Talib and Al Qaeda will have a field day with y’all, a couple of decades from now, just you wait and see. The ancient Romans were trampled to pieces by the barbaric Germanic hordes almost two millennia ago. In the same manner the barbarians from the Orient will crush your false pride one day. For centuries on end you oppressed the Indians and the Blacks, even referring to certain scriptural passages to justify your psychopathic behavior. Now you think you can keep harassing the Gays forever. But rest assured, we won’t stop raising our voices for one single day, anymore. We will keep spitting our outrage in your faces and as they, Universal justice will prevail.
“The Talib and Al Qaeda will have a field day with y’all, a couple of decades from now, just you wait and see.”
American’s will not allow the fall of America. We have the baby boomer generation to start up a revolution bro, so, sorry, not going to happen.
But, I’ll play along to your little what if world… So, Bring on The Talib and Al Qaeda twenty years from now! We have weapons. Americans won’t give them up without a fight, and we will win. We have more trained solders in this country, retired, active and reserve than any other country on the planet. Our entire military can be sent to fight far from home without fear of invasion. Other countries are surrounded by potential advisaries, so they always have to leave some combat power guarding their borders, unlike america where civilians are armed to the teeth, just waiting. Now, If Talib and Al Qaeda would like to make there way over to American soil, my little friend will be there just the same saying hello back. Along with the other crazed gun toting American “infidels.” And once the little cowards public bombings get out of control, trust me, Americans will begin taking out Arab’ on sight.
“The ancient Romans were trampled to pieces by the barbaric Germanic hordes almost two millennia ago. In the same manner the barbarians from the Orient will crush your false pride one day.”
We may resemble Ancient Rome so much that if you could take a picture during the period of Ancient Rome you’d see the Statue of Liberty. The difference is that Americans can change what is happening. I lay my faith in the American people to stand up for what they believe and change what’s happening. This Country which I “have a false sense of pride” in, is allowing you to be free to do what your heart desires. Oh, and the right to bare arms. Oh, and the NRA. Oh, and the Crazy gun toting white boys, and the black inner city gangs, oh, and the mafia, oh, oh oh…
“For centuries on end you oppressed the Indians and the Blacks, even referring to certain scriptural passages to justify your psychopathic behavior.”
Yes, America oppressed the Indians and the Blacks. I spent 36 months in prison and I’ve seen enough evil and opression from the American government. But I can still say with all my heart, I’d STILL rather LIVE IN AMERICA then anywhere else in this damned world and I guarentee that If the blacks had that big of a problem with there history with this country, believe me, they’re more than welcome to go back to Africa. I hear life is so much better over there.
“Now you think you can keep harassing the Gays forever. But rest assured, we won’t stop raising our voices for one single day, anymore. We will keep spitting our outrage in your faces and as they, Universal justice will prevail.”
“And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah’s guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.” (Sura 2, verse 120).
“And KILL them (the unbelievers) wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.” (Sura 2, verse 191).
Stoning women and flogging men for adultery are widely practiced in Saudi Arabia and Iran.
Hester on the scaffold in Puritan Massachusetts, America of the 17th century, in The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne, must have felt happy that she was not born among the “believers” in the Arabian Peninsula.
The Koran is filled with contradictions. While in sura 2, verse 256, it says “There is no compulsion in religion,” it urges Muslims to kill those Muslims who convert to other religions.
You think I’m harassing gays!? Gee, I would hate think what Allah has to say about being gay. I guess “The Talib and Al Qaeda” would have a field day with ya’ll to, ******!
well as Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah and YHWH are all the one god of Abraham yeah we pretty much know where he stands
Freddie
Your name sounds German to me.Are you ashamed of your ancesters?I now you are calling ME a bigot.Read your own tyrants and then look in the mirror.If you included me in the oppression of anyone look in the mirror again.You are right there with me, unless you are an alien from another planet.But then again the jury is stil out on that one based on the wierd stuff you have written in just the last several days.Keep it up and the FBI is going to put you on their “watch list”
Either way this issue is up to the states not the Federal Government. Read the Amendments, all of them. If people would just wake the up, they’d remember, and for the ignorant they’d learn that states can nullify unconstitutional federal laws. Gay marriage isn’t up to the Supreme Court, or the Openly Gay Federal Judicial Nominee, it’s up to the “the states”. If a majority people in CA, CO, HI, ME, NJ, NV, OR, WA, WI got together and decided that they wanted to overturn the right to marry, believe me, they can.
unless of course its deemed discriminatory and therefore unconstitutional. Ok Canada has a lot less Religious hatred but its supreme court and constitution were loosely based on the US and the supreme court declared it unconstitutional to discriminate against homosexuals in this manor
the right to civil union*
The constitution doesn’t say it’s illegal or legal for homosexuals to have the right to civil union or marriage. It’s a gray area, that leads down a path toward each state. How many years has prop 8 been on the California ballot? Now, the Constitution, Gave U.S. Citizen Rights based on GOD given rights, in short.
Roger said:
unless of course its deemed discriminatory and therefore unconstitutional. Ok Canada has a lot less Religious hatred but its supreme court and constitution were loosely based on the US and the supreme court declared it unconstitutional to discriminate against homosexuals in this manor
I guess homosexuals will have to pack up and move, because;
1) Our Constitution IS different
2) Marriage laws are federal in Canada and State here.That is one
reason why it passed.We have 39 States with(DOMA) ban on same sex
marriage.That won’t change
3) Canada is way more liberal that U.S. will ever be.We won’t
change much.No matter what Freddie thinks
This is the other reason it passed.
4) Canada is more socialist and government already runs peoples lives
and does most things for you.Isn’t that wonderful.You can move ther and be as mindless as you want to be
Oh I forgot your comment about religious hatred.You are just another fanatic putting a negative label just because their believe(and common sense) causes them to disagree.Oh, sure there are those who hate.But I decided a while ago that I will not let a statement like yours go by without calling you a bigot too.
(words removed for offensive content). You talk about WE? Who’s we? You mean, The American People? And what or who’s that bunch supposed to be.
Apparently you solely watch shows dumped on us by the out and out Neanderthal morons at Fox News. Yeah, my guess is that you do consider these brain-dead screamers, with their endless stream of lame and unfounded allegations, representative of the (Real) American People. Good for you buddy. Of course Gil, these selfish, hardheaded doggies will never change. They’ve been very effectively brainwashed into thinking that the main purposes in life are handgun collecting and finding ways to tax cheat as much as possible. Let the poor and needy take care of themselves. (Remember: AM I MY BROTHER’S KEEPER?) Finger pointing seems to be their finest hobby. The internet is replete with their whining about Government meddling with their so-called freedoms. Well, Tens of millions of folk uninsured or underinsured? Why the hell would they care. Fine Christians they are, these conservative hypocrites. Yeah, and precisely because of their laudable social attitude, America is so tremendously loved around the globe……. Sleep tight!
“Apparently you solely watch shows dumped on us by the out and out Neanderthal morons at Fox News. Yeah, my guess is that you do consider these brain-dead screamers, with their endless stream of lame and unfounded allegations, representative of the (Real) American People.”
I watch both sides of the argument and decide for myself. Including MSNBC, Cspan, CNBC, FNC, etc… I won’t lean either way Fredrick. I’m lucky enough to still have the ability to vote, and I’m sick of both sides. Republican or Democrat? I’m sick of the lies and bullsh*t. I want the umpteenth term senators out. I want new blood in there. These people really p*ss me off! I’m now a registerd Independent. I believe water boarding should be legal. I believe in Intelligence from captives that are deemed a threat to this Nation. I don’t believe in all the tick tack bs that gets in the way. Listen, I do not like you Fredrick. At all. If I could say it to your face I would. I believe in honesty, integrity, and great moral values. I believe in protecting what I love, such as my family and country. I’d die for both if I had to.
“Yeah, my guess is that you do consider these brain-dead screamers, with their endless stream of lame and unfounded allegations, representative of the (Real) American People.”
And MSNBC tells the truth 100% of the time? Look, part of the first amendment was to protect the freedom of the press. Now, do you really think I believe everything from FNC is 100% fact? Do you actually think I am completely unaware that these people are given an agenda from the top and under increased restrictions? I honestly believe that 99.9% of reporters in mainstream are a disgrace to journalism. Shaun Hannity is merely a puppet at FNC. I disagree with O’rielly a lot, including Chris Mathews, and Glenn Beck, and the list goes on… Pass judgment on yourself bud. Look in the mirror, something. I’m not the one playing hide the stick with another man.
“hey’ve been very effectively brainwashed into thinking that the main purposes in life are handgun collecting and finding ways to tax cheat as much as possible. Let the poor and needy take care of themselves.”
brainwashed into being heterosexual for sure Fredrick. Look punk, Arab’ in the middle east wanna be able to go out and party with the same freedom as Americans. To be free just like you and I. They’re being shot and killed during protests. Yeah, Look at America. We Suck, right! Now, it be a lot different when Arab’ start shooting back during protests. But they can’t. They don’t have any weapons to fight with.
Now, as far as the poor and the needy. Take for example, the issue of banning junk food in schools. Kids are overweight. Put a tax on pop and candy. Commercials and campaigns. Educate people on the health issues of consuming high sugar and sodium products, etc. That to me is brainwashing. I will tell my kids what they can and can’t eat, not the government. Now, when Obama wants to “spread the wealth”, I have a problem with that. Not because I don’t want to help the needy or the poor. I just do not need him to take my hard earned money away from me and give it to someone else against my own will. That to me is stealing.
It’s not the Governments job to take care of the poor. The more they get involved the more they hurt us. Take medicare and medicaid for example…The poor had done just fine securing health care before medicaid. The year prior to the introduction of medicaid poor families had considerably higher hospital admission rates than high-income individuals. All that medicaid did was result in a dramatic decline in reduced-cost and pro bono service that doctors had once provided the poor. Do you realise that that most of the government’s medical payments on behalf of the poor compensated doctors and hospitals for services once rendered free of charge or at a reduced price? All that medicare and medicaid did was transfer mincome from the middle-class to middle class health care professionals. Ultimately hyperstimulating the demand created by medicare and medicaid and all that did was raise health care costs. That undermined natural market mechanisms that inevitably lowered the cost and even increased the consumption of medical services.
“Well, Tens of millions of folk uninsured or underinsured? Why the hell would they care.”
Ask Obama that one. He’s pushing the agenda. Even stated he’ll use executive orders if needed to get it passed.
I’m so tired of the hateful banter back and forth. Our forefathers came to this country to avoid religious persecution and now in the 21st century it’s back. We are a country of law and those laws are designed to protect our personal freedoms. Let’s keep it that way. Believe what you want, but allow your fellow Americans to live with all the freedoms that you want for yourselves…that includes a person’s right to marry whomever they love.
“We are a country of law and those laws are designed to protect our personal freedoms.”
We are a country of “laws given to us by GOD”.
Fredrick, you wrote; “They’ve been very effectively brainwashed into thinking that the main purposes in life are handgun collecting and finding ways to tax cheat as much as possible. Let the poor and needy take care of themselves.”
Second Amendment
“A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
This is a well known fact, bud. Outlaw guns and only outlaws own guns. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. You can use a gun and shoot at a shooting range. Using common sense and respect for the gun, no one will get hurt.
If you legalize drugs that doesn’t mean that it’ll prevent crime and killing or robbing, etc…Here’s why. You can’t smoke a cigarette and do no harm to yourself. You can’t use heroine, or cocaine or ecstasy and do no harm to yourself. Big difference.
What the Founders Said
“What is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
-George Mason, father of the Bill of Rights
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes….Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than armed man.”
Gay marriage divides GOP, which is not as important as the Sodomites (gays) life of sin that manifests them to be the children of the devil and divides them from the children of God. The laws of man, so called education, or philosophy does not over-rule GODS law to make sin not to be sin. A nations law opposed to GODS law only will destroy them with double destruction Jer.17:18. Sodomy is to change the natural use into that which is against nature and it is to dishonour their own bodies between themselves therefore God gives them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts. Sodomy is an abomination that brought the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah, with other cities of the plain, by fire and brimstone from heaven because they burned in their lust one towards another. Sodomy is an exceeding great sin that is, contrary to nature, dishonourable to human nature, and scandalous to a people and nation among whom it prevails. It is a sin which generally prevails where idolatry and infidelity do, as among the Pagans of old.
Thus God, because men dishonour him with their evil principles and practices, leaves them to reproach their own nature, and dishonour their own bodies: men with men working that which is unseemly; and of which nothing like it is to be observed in the brutal world: receiving in themselves the recompence of their error, which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Rom 1:28-32
To have a marriage you must have “the man and his wife” Gen.2:25, which you do not have with the same sex and this is by order of GOD not mans law.
To have being, whether it be “matter”, “motion”, or “life” you must have creation and therefore you must have a Creator which our founding fathers recognized. All the evidence declares the glory of God and not “eternal matter” or “spontaneous generation” or “evolution” which only someone deceived by that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world would believe.
The site of Sodom and Gomorrha remains to this day to testify to the judgment of GOD.
It does not matter what any political party stands for about Sodomy, it is still an abomination and will be judged by GOD!
WHO CARES, marry a rock, a martian or a chimp. I fail to see how another’s free choice effects me. All I care about is a return to conservative economic principles and MUCH less government interference in the personal freedoms of Americans to do as they please as long as they don’t interfere with the rights of others to do as they please.
I’ll be outta here (for a while at least). As far as I’m concerned All crucial arguments have been exchanged by now. Considering the latest post (by YANDLE) I see the same old crappo nonsense being delivered time and time and again. Suit yourself. I’ve got much better things to do than react to your Medieval ranting and bible thumping. Happy slapping for you. Bye, bye. Oh, and if you’re a woman, you’d better not wear red stuff, your bible seems to be fiercely against doing so. OK?
Frederick H, I choose to believe The Creator and Sovereign of All Things versus your depraved judgment.
Frederick H, I am so surprised that an intelligent person like yourself referring to a non-existent being as myself (Considering the latest post (by YANDLE)) having only my so-called word as evidence that I exist, considering your way of determining whether there be a GOD or not. I have more than His Word, I have ALL creation, HIS SON, all Providence, and the witness of the HOLY SPIRIT to testify of HIS existence. I think your conscience tells you that you are wrong. May God have mercy on your soul!
Oh yeah Mark let everybody DO AS THEY PLEASE! Great country it’ll be. Ever heard of ANARCHISM? CHAOS? Fine eh, a country of out and out Egomaniacs. Let the Slum area sods over in New York, Chicago, LA, SF, Houston, you name it, do as they please and reclaim and grab the money the wealthy and super wealthy have stolen (and are still happily stealing) from them, by refusing to pay their tax dues. Let’s all do precisely whatever pleases us and see America go further down the drain, while China (yes, Communist China) gets well on its way to becoming THE GREAT SUPERPOWER on this planet. As I said before, Rome was defeated by savage hordes, why should America be spared? Our selfishness will ultimately be our sure downfall. Onward you “Christian” soldiers………
We were founded on principals of personal liberty to do as we please as long as we don’t infringe on the rights of others to do as they please. We used to be a country of rugged individualists that were self reliant and MINDED THEIR OWN BUSINESS instead of endlessly and tediously pointing their fingers at the behavior of others. ANY freedoms of others, particularly ones we don’t like, need to be defended, becuase our freedoms that we do care about are next. For me those would be the rights to own and carry guns, free speech and assembly, the right to own gold and silver, the right to hire and fire based on merit and the right to ignore fundamentalists of all persausions, such as yourself.
Frederick H, You must be looking in a mirror when you say, “I see the same old crappo nonsense being delivered time and time and again”.
Well dude, I am just done saying to my man: ah, well who’s standing here right beside me now? Am I hallucinating? Dunno, he says. And I continue, I’d swear the man called himself Yandle. Or was it a parrot, screaming some inanity he must have heard on Fox News about Freedom, without having the slightest clue what he’s talking about. Yeah, Freedom; Freedom to try and stuff your pocket as swiftly and fully as you can with your “skimmed money” and run to Switzerland or the Cayman islands to deposit the lot in a bank. But luckily, luckily, luckily, President Obama’s got you by the tail now. No more cheating my dear. It’s over and done with y’all, once and for all!!!
By the way, Yandle, “non-existent being” (….), I get the impression you must’ve been smoking some very foul bong today and taken a few shots of the cheapest Scotch to boot, considering your rambling about the Universe, the Son and the Holy spirit, and what not, blah, blah. We’ve seen this type of argumentation so often before on this Forum, that I urge you to read the whole bunch of posts above from the very beginning on, before you even think of dispatching another quasi-message once again. OK?
Frederick H, It is obvious you do not know rambling from Truth, fiction from Fact because I stated Truth and Fact but you are of those Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness, therefore you will not come to the Truth. Your comments are full of denying GOD, therefore saying HE is non-existent so when I say non-existent being you know what I am expressing. With your logic (?) of why GOD does not exist by that logic I would not exist. I did not give any argumentation, I gave FACT. You are for the sin of sodomy therefore you are living in THE SIN OF ABOMINATION. For your information I did read this post from the start before I made a comment. Also you used my name in your comment before I made a reply to you. If you cannot stand the TRUTH, you should not read these posts, nor should you write any more comments because you only show your ignorance.
As far as this issue is concerned. I see 3 votes, “yes” for Proposition 8 (CA)and 1 vote “no”. Assuming we all live in California,
.
Fredrick. This isn’t Ancient Rome. Similar, but Far from what you are led to believe to be the present and future of America. So, why don’t you knock off your creative writing, depicting your little illusions about what “you” think America will look like in the future…or, wait, maybe…Maybe you are a Secret Spy From The Future…?
Frankly, my dears, I’ve grown so totally tired of this whole discussion, that I had to almost literally drag myself over to my pc to come up with a (final?) reaction to your posts Yandle and Davis. But alright, I’ll try to be a real nice guy this time ’round and get back to you now as civilly as I can. So, here goes.
1) Mr G. Davis. Of course, I know that this is not ancient Rome. But that’s totally beside the point. The crucial point here is our false haughtiness, our conceit, our arrogance as a nation. Just as the Romans (and before them the Egyptians, the Greek [or rather the Macedonians] and many centuries later a whole lot of Europeans (notably the British and the Hispanics) did, we, apparently, still think we can dictate our values and norms to the rest of the world. “We” (at least millions of “Christians in this country) look down on the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Communists, etc, etc, etc. And what for? Because we have our bible, full of myths, lies, dreamed up nonsense, contradictions and tyrannical dictates? Come on, don’t let me laugh. Furthermore, democracy is considered excellent for us and so it must similarly be for those poor sods out there in the Middle East. But the majority there simply doesn’t want what we value so very highly here. They want to be left in peace. Well, of course, if they won’t take what we have to offer “peacefully” (killing thousands of them into the bargain) we’ll shove it down their throats one way or another. So Davis, I do hope the message is crystal clear to you by now: we have put huge walls down South to keep the starving hordes from Mexico and Guatemala from invading our country instead of helping them out decently (as devout Christians are supposed to do); we invaded Afghanistan and Irak to punish the terrorists and keep them from bothering us with their suicide bombs. But how long will our “thumbs in these hole(s)” last? Iran is well on its way to the production of nuclear weaponry. Rest assured that the Talib and Al Q. will soon get their hands on a lot of dirty bombs just as well. The rest I’ll just leave to your rich imagination. Understandable enough for you???
2) Yandle dear. I wish you could hear me sighing here at my desk. But OK, I really grant you your medieval opinions my dear (man, woman, what are you, in fact). I really do. The only thing is that the god you apparently believe in isn’t the god I even want to consider believing in. I can’t believe in a god who allows children to be tortured and killed by the millions in concentration camps, who allows girls (and boys, for that matter) to be brutally raped day by day by day all over the world, who looks the other way while seven year olds are maiming and killing children and adults with their machetes and Kalashnikovs. No Yandle I flatly refuse to have even a gram of respect for a cruel and depraved god who’s comfortably sitting on his so-called throne while millions of innocent children are starving or dying from heavily polluted water all over the globe. And please don’t give that crap about the Big Reward awaiting these poor souls in heaven. Ever heard of the word CYNICISM Yandle? Well look it up please, because that’s what your bible is full of. Think about it
Frederick H
First, You do not deserve an answer
Second, This is off the subject of this post
Third, I will give you one anyway
“The crucial point here is our false haughtiness, our conceit, our arrogance as a nation” all that comes from our godlessness. All countries through the many centuries of time lose their freedom, their power and their existence because they reject GOD. Christians do not look down on the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Communists, etc, etc, etc, but we do not follow their Satanic ways knowing “it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve”. Frederick, you say “we have our bible, full of myths, lies, dreamed up nonsense, contradictions and tyrannical dictates” if that be true, give me ONE example from the original greek or hebrew or even the KJV, if you are not lying of course.
Frederick, my opinions go back even farther than medieval times, it goes back to “In the beginning God” and “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” but man disobeyed GOD and has disobeyed God to this day. Man deserves nothing from GOD but JUDGMENT. It is the sinfulness of man that causes “children to be tortured and killed by the millions in concentration camps, who allows girls (and boys, for that matter) to be brutally raped day by day by day all over the world, who looks the other way while seven year olds are maiming and killing children and adults with their machetes and Kalashnikovs” not the lack of mercy on the part of GOD. Many in this world have “had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth” but when “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations”, and the sinfulness of man is full than will the end come.
Consider:
Upon the surface of this earth are incalculable hosts of creatures, varying in size from gnats
to elephants, each requiring its regular food, the total amount of which for a single day defies human computation if not the imagination. Those creatures are not set down in a dwelling-place where the table is bare, but where there is abundance for them all; nor are they furnished merely with a few necessities, but, instead, with a great variety of luxuries and dainties. From whence proceed such ample and unfailing supplies? From Nature, says the materialist. And what or whom endowed Nature to bear so prolifically and ceaselessly? To which no intelligent reply is forthcoming. Only one answer satisfactorily meets the case: from the living God!
“He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle and herb for the service of men: the earth is full of Thy riches. These all wait upon Thee, that Thou mayest give them meat in season. Thou openest
Thy hand, they are filled with good” (Psalm 104:14).
Every bite of food we eat will raise up against us in judgment if we do not use that nutrition for the glory of God!
My last reply to you dear Yandle: read the following book, a book which really, really opened my eyes for what you call The Truth. Title: GOD THE FAILED HYPOTHESIS, How Science Shows that God Does Not Exist. It’s written by Professor Victor J. Stenger. Fascinating stuff. Not very reassuring for the staunch believer, but absolutely enlightening. And now, good bye and good luck. To quote the late Michael Jackson: this is it.
Frederick H, I hate to leave you with those “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them” but if I must I must.
I see you could not give me ONE example to back-up your claim even with Professor Victor J. Stenger’s help. I know that true science testifies to the one true God, so I will not waste my time on Stenger’s book. May God have mercy on you and hopefully by God’s grace you will come unto the knowledge of the truth. No hard feelings and may the God of peace be with you.
I don’t look down at Buddhist, or Muslim. Once again, you are blaming the 545 people in the government that have created the problems today…Not the American people. We are separate from them. And We are a “Republic” Fredrick, not a Democracy. The arrogance once again goes to the Federal Government and the 545 people that created these problems for the rest of the world as you have described, and once again, the American public isn’t at fault for it.
Vote out the old blood and vote in new blood. Stop acting bitter. Don’t tell me you are a communist sympathizer…Are you? You make me sick if you are. Don’t you worry about the middle east… We are damned if we help Israel and damned if we don’t. They at least won’t put up with Iraq. Russia has agreed to more sanctions on Iraq. I suppose you don’t sympathize with the communists decision to impose those sanctions…But then again you sympathize with communists…That’s a laugh.
Christians are supposed to help out, Fredrick. But when you and I, Americans, have nothing to give and nowhere to work, I guess it becomes a good reason to prevent the “Illegal Aliens” from jumping the border illegally to work “illegally” in this country. They steal from the American people. They don’t pay taxes. That is illegal, so stop sympathizing. Matthew 22:17-21 “Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?” – Jesus said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Who’s portrait is this? And whose inscription?” They replied, “It’s Ceasars.” Then Jesus said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is Gods.”
Fredrick you are such a bitter, disappointed, depressed, and completely miserable human being. You are part of the problem. Instead of getting involved with positive energy and motives, you drag yourself and the rest of anyone who has a positive outlook on something irregardless how depressing…Even though it’s so bad, you can taste it, you are supposed to continue moving in the right direction, and continue acting appropriately, walking a straight line…But you gave up bud, and that makes you a coward in my eyes and im sure a good portion of the readers here to. You are a disgrace to the people who died for the freedom of Americans through the history of the pre and post colonies, yet you would rather bitch about the situation then get involved and change things for the best based upon what this country stands for, what your god stands for, yet all you can do is bad mouth anything that would bring light into your chaotic little world you call life. As far as I’m concerned you are nothing but a waste of life. Your tripping if you think you can bad mouth your country, with your your twisted, bitter, cowardly way of thinking,
Fredrick, what happened before the big bang?
“Israel and Iran” not Iraq.
Rather dumb question Davis. It’s quite simple: before the Big Bang was the Big Void, i.e. NOTHING, not even Time or Space. Oh well, not quite. Ever heard of the word SINGULARITY, Davis? If not, Google it up. You’ll finally learn a thing or two. Happy studying.
As to those poor, starving Mexican and Guatemalan sods down South, Davis, if you’re a Christian think about what Jesus did (and would do should he’d be still roaming this wretched planet). Remember how generously he fed the hungry, the real have-nots; how he healed the sick, who most certainly could not afford standard medical assistance? (And think about President Obama fighting to settle the score for millions upon millions of Americans who also can’t afford the medical treatments they need and deserve. But, of course, your precious Insurance Companies are having veritable nightmares, they’re sweating their skins off, precisely because of their constant fear of huge profit losses. And you know Davis, the saddest thing is that untold millions of dumb, greedy, gullible Americans are buying their (i.e. the Insurance Bosses’) scare-tactic stories, while these insurance dogs are laughing their pants off. Great country, eh, that US of A…….
Yes Davis we’re one the WEALTHIEST COUNTRIES IN THE ENTIRE WORLD and look how we’re treating our neighbors (the really poor Mexicans and Guatemalans). We’d rather spend billions of dollars setting up giant walls and paying off guardians, than help out our neighbors effectively. Fine Christian Nation, eh!!! Love Thy Neighbor as thyself . Ha, ha, ha, don’t let me laugh.
We’d also rather call out “Hail Caesar” to the Big Corporate Boys (Big Food, Big Pharma, Big Bank), who’re constantly dumping their garbage (junk food, junk medicine, junk mortgages) on us, than support Washington, because ever since the 18th Century when we succeeded in kicking out the tyrannical Brits, we’ve accumulated heaps of viral material in our bloodstreams called: PARANOIA and HYSTERIA. Let Corporate America exploit us as much as they please, dole out billions of bonus dollars to the wealthiest amongst them. Why the hell would we bother. They’re our Great Examples after all. They can, at least, show us the way to MORE AND MORE AND MORE MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. You’d better relocate your church pews, by the way. They’ll look much more respectable in your corporate (e.g. bank) halls and you’ll feel whole lot better there, facing your CEOS’ well-fed faces, won’t you…….
And, perhaps you’ve been snoring your way through the entire past two decades, Davis. But, didn’t you know that Russia isn’t a “Communist” country anymore? It’s an extremely brittle (still pseudo)democracy, but Communist, no. Read up on your 20th Century history Davy, instead of blathering cliché nonsense here on our Forum.
Fredrick, what happened before the big void?
Jesus would feed all of them with five loafs of bread. That which I cannot do. I can’t tell you how many Russians, Czechoslovakians, french, afghan, arab’ come to this country legally, and gain citizenship, and they even speak our own language and don’t expect us to learn their native language. Yet Mexicans come here illegally and expect to be treated like U.S. Citizens… What the fu%k? If I were Jesus, or a powerful/rich human being, I would do my best to help in all areas of life that involve human suffering, but I can’t.
Insurance/health care: Bring the state walls down and allow insurance companies to compete with each other. That would drive the premiums down for sure…But no, Obama would rather take your money and make you choose a Government Health Care plan. The simple cure for this is for the politicians in bed with the insurance companies to get out of office. I’m a business owner Fred, the more business that I have competing against me the lower I bid jobs, which is best for customers if you think about it.
I hate insurance companies Fredrick, My driving record is stellar. My health is stellar, and I have Kaiser Insurance. I pay $350.00 a month. I get all the care that I need. Let’s say something horrible happens, I’m in an accident, Kaiser will more then likely find a way to drop me, in which I’ll still get coverage, and thousands of dollars in fees in doctor/hospital bills, but you know what, I’ll still be covered, irregardless. With Obama’ plan, I’d be Fubar’. long waits, fewer employees, less doctors, doctors salaries are lower, I might not get the doctor I want…
Now! The giant walls are not only to prevent the Mexicans from coming here, but from drug smugglers. Let’s get into the political area. It’s just as easy for the U.S. Government to spray the poppy fields as it is to arrest a man in the U.S. at the border and charge him for his drug crimes, then earn revenue from the tax payers to keep him incarcerated making a damn lot of money. But why wont’ the government spray the poppy fields,you might ask? Because of all the people employed in various departments that combat the war on drugs would lose their jobs. Police, DEA, Border Agents, Undercover units, etc… Snap, think about all the alcoholics in this country… The states charge some guy $10k+ in fees for a DUI/DWAI/DUID… If you go to Europe, one DWAI/DUI/DUID and you license is banned for LIFE. You take defensive driving/racing classes and drive time before you can get your license, and when you get it, you don’t renew it ever few years, you earned your license for LIFE. No renewal fees, like out here. Think about how many DMV could be closed and employees laid off if we had the same requirements to drive here in the U.S. as Europe… Hmmm… I doubt big brother would wanna do that.
Drug/alcohol classes. It doesn’t take rocket scientist to figure out that if the states ban alcohol, or the government sprays all the poppy fields in columbia the war on drugs would be drastically reduced including the marijuana fields in Mexico, or even legalizing pot in the states. Hell it should be up to the states, but the government has the legalization of pot in a federal web of legislation, the states can’t combat. Think of all the government workers, that would lose there job if the above happened? The government cannot sustain an entire country alone by drastically riding the private sector of it’s uses, unless it’s a socialist or communist country, then all you have to worry about then Fredrick, is how great the good old socialist/communist USA has become… Common, I know thats what you want Fredrick…!
How does Obama build big government, how does he control us… Hmmm… Well if creates National Health Care, he would create millions upon million of additional employees. Now, what the f*ck is that gonna do for Joe Blow, trying to create a business, or get a job, when taxes are about to hit 71% though Obama back door tax increase (bush taxes expire)? How does Health Care help the private sector, how does taxes help the private sector, or high capital gains and real estate investors as myself?
Don’t forget my question, what happened before the big void, Fredrick?
The private sector and the states can govern themselves. The more the government gets involve, ie: LBJ and the “General Wellfare” or Medicare and Medicaid the worse off we are. Freddy and Fannie. Etc, etc… The Federal government should deal with international affairs, and the states should be allowed to deal with the people of the states. The government is in bed with insurance companies… Which as my preceding statement, created more problems.
Good graciousness Davis, I’m being drowned in matters great and small. But OK we’ll see what we can do for you. Daily life’s still tugging at my sleeve, after all. First of all then that Big Void matter. You know, in the old days when I was still roaming the college lecture halls we had this slightly disheveled professor, still in his mid thirties. Delightfully controversial chap. Well, he introduced us to all the ins and outs (games, rules, cunning twists and turns) of Gestalt therapy. Maybe the name sounds familiar to you. Now, one of the major points of this brand of therapy concerns the (most viable) way to handle the patient’s questions. Theory is, that behind practically every question lurks a more or less robust Statement, the patient is reluctant to put forward for fear of having to confront a particular, personal piece of Truth. Best thing for the therapist to do is to urge the patient to change their question into a straightforward Statement. From there you can try to unravel a thing or two he or she is fighting to hide from you (as well as him- of herself, mostly). In your case, with that Big Bang/Big Void issue, I get exactly the same feeling. What you’re saying in fact is, there’s only on possibility: behing the Big B’s stands the one and only chap who arranged it all: God, right? The trouble, however, is that as long as we have no direct (but merely circumstantial) “evidence” of God’s existence, we’ll still have to prove much and much more convincingly and unequivocally that it’s really He or She that’s been waving a friggin’ wand and voila the entire Universe sprang to life. (Remember that famous dictum from Genesis: God said, “let there be Light and verily, verily there was Light”. Just like that!). So, sorry Davis, you can try and go as far back as you want, you’ll NEVER find the Final, totally satisfactory answer everyone in their right mind will (have to) acknowledge. Perhaps we’ll have to evolve from Homo Sapiens to Meta (or Mega) Sapiens to stumble upon the Ultimate Answer you’ve been trying to squeeze out of my poor brain through your last posts.
Now for that whole thing about the miserable state of our National Politics. Well, I’m afraid there’s no simple solution whatsoever for this state of affairs either. As I’ve said earlier, folk here in this country (much more than elsewhere in the “civilized Western World) are constantly complaining about the machinations of our (Fed and State) Governments. And time and again we’re bemoaning the amount of tax, tax, tax we’re forced to pay as well as the way Gov is spending our precious, hard earned dollars. Now I can assure you fully, that if we just thrust over the bulk of our National Affairs from DC to the States’ Administrations we’ll be merely pushed from one pain inducing box into the other. Look at what’s happing out there in California with its huge State budget deficits. Obama and Schwarzenegger happen to be dancing exactly the same tango, my dear. (And there are a lot more Governors desperately trying to make ends meet). Ordinary citizens don’t realize that prosperity needs to earned and more often than not earned the rock hard way. Why are China and the India able to boast about their booming economy? Yeah, precisely because of the ultra cheap labor available (including CHILD LABOR). Do we want to emulate their politico-economic systems? Answer that one for yourself. And mind you, China may be a Communist country, but India is definitely not!!!
So whether our economy is controlled by the Feds in conjunction with a whole army of Corporate Wolves who have their fangs and claws deeply driven into Washington’s flesh or we shove over responsibilities to the Governors and their cronies, the Big Corporate Boys won’t let go. The whole culture of giga-lobbyism and bribery, so typically American (although we could still learn a thing or two from the Chinese and the Russians in this respect), won’t cease to exist. On the contrary, our lobbyists will find ample opportunity to hop into bed with State-based officials and continue collecting their huge, dirty profits at the expense of us , The People.
It all amounts to a radical change of ethics, of (inter)personal ethical standing. Our political system is a “Promise System”. Prior to election day (wherever you happen to be, in DC or one the State capitals), you’ll be inundated with promises, promises, promises. But the questions is, how often and how strongly and reliably are these promises being evaluated? We can keep bawling that the Obama Administration accomplished nothing significant to date or – otherwise – as the “lefties” contend, achieved a whole lot more than the Bush boys in 8 years, but how fair, realistic and objective are our methods of appraisal? Same story with the Governors all around the country. No Davis, you’ll have to come up with something much and much stronger than a simple DC vs. the States “solution”.
If scientists can’t prove what happened before the big void, (or maybe I’m not up to date) or prove the big bang, which “in theory” hasn’t been proven, then why do you believe, A GOD or HIGHER POWER Does NOT exist? Are you not making a decision based on unproven science?
The point is Davis that thinking there was, in fact, something before what I call’ the Big Void amounts to `hypothetical thinking. Might very well be that this `Void`or what astrophysicists call the Singularity is (or rather was) nothing more than a infinitely small package of bare material, containing all the basic elements known to us now: time, space and matter. I´m not a physicist, so I´m really not familiar with the present state of affairs as far as knowledge regarding the origin of the universe is concerned. But, whatever you say in this direction will, in all probability, still be pretty speculative. About 11 billion years backwards would seem like an incredibly impressive span of time to include in your investigations. Don’t forget, on the other hand, that “God” constitutes an Hypothesis, just as well. Taking the risk of repeating myself I’ll still point to the fact that nobody has ever succeeded in EXPLAINING God’s existence satisfactorily. Main problem is that we even lack a rock hard definition of who or what God is. God figures in myths, folk tales, dreams, fantasies, stories within so-called Holy Books and the like. But you’ll have a hell of a time (no pun intended) trying to distill an entity from such material we would be capable of investigating objectively. God has the status of a full-fledged phantom, if I may say so. Maybe he’s just around the corner, but you won’t be able to get into a two-way type of contact with him, simply because the only way he seems to be able to communicate with us, is through age-old Books and through folk under the influence of hard drugs (think of Castaneda’s Don Juan and his fancy mushrooms). Not exactly terribly reliable stuff, is it?
Okay, I smell what your stepping in. And thank you for speaking up the post preceding your recent one. You changed my opinion of you.
You said, “The point is Davis that thinking there was, in fact, something before what I call’ the Big Void amounts to `hypothetical thinking. Might very well be that this `Void`or what astrophysicists call the Singularity is (or rather was) nothing more than a infinitely small package of bare material, containing all the basic elements known to us now: time, space and matter.”
How can anti matter become matter without a higher being, spirit, energy to create it? To believe that hypothetical thinking could debunk GOD and Religion sounds silly to me. An infinitely small package of bare material, containing all the basic elements known to us now: time, space and matter can’t mathematically come from nothing, unless scientists have a theory for that equation…Yet unproven. Obviously it’s beyond human comprehension, and to assume that we spawned from nothing or as you mentioned, an infinitely small package of bare material, containing all the basic elements known to us now which not only contains the perfect mathematical equation to sustain life but gives you faith in a theory that we are the spawn of nothing to something with nothing else in its entirety to create it, develop it, or initiate it. Something came before the package of materials that contain the basic elements known to us now. Something must have created that. That something is documented. with the advancement of science, the only thing science can do for any human being is test the law of physics, nothing more and sometimes a lot less. Science can only tell you what a human brain can interpret from it’s own human education, and past and present knowledge of the universe.
Look, am I correct in saying that if you believe in science when in all actuality is unproven and mostly theories, you then to, have faith in something, unproven. Faith that we do not exist. Not a realization that GOD does not exist, but a belief that GOD does not exist, no?
Yet, science alone can’t create matter from nothing (anti matter), or figure out how everything in this world comes together so perfectly to sustain life. Or answer how air molecules are held in place. Yet, you have faith in something also known as science, when by itself, can’t be as it is without something that created it in all it’s form first.
Disregard the second paragraph from the bottom of my preceding post…
Look, am I correct in saying that if you believe in science when in all actuality is unproven and mostly theories, you then to, have faith in something, unproven. Faith that we do exist but you have a realization that GOD does not exist, but a belief also in something you can’t prove, but would rather only bring to light, nothing became something, alone, and without anything to bring it into existence?
This world and everything in it which protects you, replenishes itself, sustains itself and the life from within from any .5 gravity to 0 gravity space, the stars, and everything around you as perfect as it is, came from nothing, and became something, (that something) being what we and this world and universe is today…And No energy, creator, or GOD exists?
That to me seems harder to believe then a GOD that walked this earth and all the “wisdom” that a person can find in a bible. If GOD exists, why can’t science and all it’s truth, rationality, logic, and knowledge of the law of physics be incapable of proving GOD doesn’t exist? All the knowledge that scientists have and they can’t even tell us how air molecules are held together, then say that we evolved through evolution from nothing that became something and people have “faith” in the teaching of physicists and scientists, etc…?
I LOVE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY DOES THAT MEAN I CAN MARRY IT TO GET AN INCOME TAX CREDIT
Just wanted to say I think it is important to respect the rights of homosexual couples and certainly allow homosexuals to serve in the military. We are in two wars, we need all the good men and women we can get!
I also want to say that I do not think that people should flaunt their religion around as a basis for any type of policy decision, because it just gets silly. What if someone said that their religious beliefs said the U.S. must legalize gay marriage and someone else said their religious beliefs say that the U.S must NOT legalize gay marriage?
You see how crazy it would get?
Kevin,
There is ONE GOD and He made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is, and Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve, and Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or WHATSOEVER ye do, do all to the glory of God. God’s government is the highest authority.
This ONE GOD forbids sodomy, which is an abomination. The ultimate crazy (foolish, imprudent, foolhardy) is to reject eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ha, ha, ha, Glory of God? What Glory? You must be kiddin’, lady. Or you’re merely referring to the “Glory” of child abuse, a whole plethora of natural disasters, horrible diseases, wars, child torture, exploitation of women and members of other minority groups and – not to forget – deadly cosmic radiation!!! Yeah that’s the glory of your God. I really spit on your religion, which is merely a set of endless lies and deception. Dream on woman, it’ll keep you happy till the end of your sorry days!!!!!
Frederick,
I see you are still posting your lies and deception! ALL the things you list come from people like you that reject GOD, but the only thing YOU have to look forward to is that the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Frederick, you said on February 20, 2010 at 8:13 am, that “(at least millions of “Christians in this country)” and You mocking added “Because we have our bible, full of myths, lies, dreamed up nonsense, contradictions and tyrannical dictates? Come on, don’t let me laugh”, than I asked You on February 20, 2010 at 2:14 pm, “Frederick, you say “we have our bible, full of myths, lies, dreamed up nonsense, contradictions and tyrannical dictates” if that be true, give me ONE example from the original greek or hebrew or even the KJV, if you are not lying of course”, Now on March 8,2010, I am still waiting for your example, if you are not lying of course.
I’m still waiting for your reply Frederick.
How can something become nothing in scientific “theory”?
How does anti-matter become matter in scientific “theory”?
You said yourself, “Because we have our bible, full of myths, lies, dreamed up nonsense, contradictions and tyrannical dictates”.
Has science proved that GOD doesn’t exist?
Is it a gun that hurts people or the person pulling the trigger?
Did GOD not give Adam and Eve a fresh start to live in a Garden of Eden?
What happens in the absence of heat?
What happens in the absence of light?
What happens in the absence of good?
Look, there are no “good” people in this world. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that all of us are tainted by and infected with sin (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 6:23; 1 John 1:8). Romans 3:10-18 could not be clearer about the non-existence of “good” people: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know. There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Every human being on this planet deserves to be thrown into hell at this very moment. Every second we spend alive is only by the grace and mercy of God. Even the most terrible misery we could experience on this planet is merciful compared to what we deserve, eternal hell in the lake of fire.
Satan – not God – is evil, and is behind evil deeds. Satan is all about death, but God is all about life.
1 John 3:12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.
Eph 2:2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
Luke 13:16 “And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?”
John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
1 Pet 5:8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
Ezek 18:32 “For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord God.
1 John 3:8 The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
Acts 10:38 “You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
2. God allows people to choose between Him and evil. He does not force us to choose Him. Return to top
God is powerful enough to stop anything, but He operates under certain laws, which He Himself established, that give humans the choice either to submit to Him and obey His commandments, or reject Him and do evil. God created us to love Him and have a relationship with Him. The relationship would not mean anything if we were controlled by God like puppets. So God has given people the freedom to make choices—and to reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of those choices.
Prov 1:29-33 Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD. 30 “They would not accept my counsel, They spurned all my reproof. 31 “So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way And be satiated with their own devices. 32 “For the waywardness of the naive will kill them, And the complacency of fools will destroy them. 33 “But he who listens to me shall live securely And will be at ease from the dread of evil.”
2 Thess 2:10 because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
Jer 2:17 “Have you not done this to yourself By your forsaking the Lord your God When He led you in the way?
3. Sin has consequences
The Old Testament of the Bible has numerous examples of God punishing nations for sin. God blessed the nations when they were humble before Him, seeking to know Him, asking Him to direct their paths, and living according to His commandments. But when they were rebellious against God—trusting in their wealth for security instead of in Him, living in immorality, not seeking Him in prayer, worshipping other gods, disobeying His voice—He allowed them to suffer the consequences of their sin.
Sometimes the consequences would come about naturally, as a result of their deeds.
Prov 1:29-33 Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD. 30 “They would not accept my counsel, They spurned all my reproof. 31 “So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way And be satiated with their own devices. 32 “For the waywardness of the naive will kill them, And the complacency of fools will destroy them. 33 “But he who listens to me shall live securely And will be at ease from the dread of evil.”
Deu 5:29 ‘Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them and with their sons forever!
At other times God would intervene and punish them, but only out of love, for their own good, so that they would change their ways.
Jer 32:23 ‘They came in and took possession of it, but they did not obey Your voice or walk in Your law; they have done nothing of all that You commanded them to do; therefore You have made all this calamity come upon them.
Jer 32:41,42 “I will rejoice over them to do them good and will faithfully plant them in this land with all My heart and with all My soul. 42 “For thus says the LORD, ‘Just as I brought all this great disaster on this people, so I am going to bring on them all the good that I am promising them.
Hebrews 12:10 He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.
Psa 119:67 Before I was afflicted I went astray, But now I keep Your word.
Psa 119:71 It is good for me that I was afflicted, That I may learn Your statutes.
A severe punishment that turns a nation to God and His ways will reap life for generations to come:
2 Chr 7:14 and [if] My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
The crucifixion of Jesus is the ultimate example. God allowed Satan to work through evil people to crucify Jesus. Jesus didn’t deserve it; He was perfectly righteous and totally innocent. But God the Father allowed Jesus (God the Son) to suffer and die in order to bring life to those who call upon Him. Jesus Himself could have used His deity to crush those who persecuted and killed Him, but He allowed the evil to be done to Him for our sakes:
Luke 22:52,53 Then Jesus said to the chief priests and officers of the temple and elders who had come against Him, “Have you come out with swords and clubs as you would against a robber? 53 “While I was with you daily in the temple, you did not lay hands on Me; but this hour and the power of darkness are yours.”
John 10:17,18 “For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
2 Cor 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God.
Hells teeth, Mr/Ms Davis must have worn his fingertips away typing that load of bronze-age b*** S+++. So the Bible is the ‘word of god’ eh? Great, Hope he abides by it in full. Like — don’t wear cloths of different weaves on the Sabbath etc etc — see your wonderful Leviticus. But I bet he does…… I reckon he is a reincarnated Pharisee hypocrite — like most of the bible-bashing guys/gals in this ‘debate’.
Well, enjoy your afternoon tea with Satan G.D. — oh sorry, I forgot -God forgives those that repent doesn’t he?? So carry on wearing your lycra and cotton on sunday dear, then say ‘sorry’ on your deathbed — that way you can have it all ways…
I’ll get back to you tomorrow Yandl. I’m in the midst of a whole lot of work, but I have quite a few examples of strange things in the bible for you, particularly having to do with Jesus’ (alleged) existence.
To you DAVIS I’ll say. The burden of proof lies wholly with the Believers, who contend that God created the Universe. The point being that you just can’t stop at God as a separate entity. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN GOD’S EXISTENCE? Where does God come from? You still haven’t answered that question. And, Why did God decide to create matter, time and space at that particular point, if he did such a thing at all, of course. You Believers take God’s existence for granted, but on what grounds? In my opinion solely because you’re stuck with the idea that SOMEBODY MUST have brought things s we observe them within our reality into concrete existence. That’s what we call anthropomorphism: our brain cannot fathom the reality of an uncaused MATERIAL REALITY (what I called a SINGULARITY a few times above already. And for your information: science doesn’t need to “prove” God’s Non-Existence, simply because it’s impossible to DEFINE God as an entity at all. Where is god? If you say “in Heaven”, that’s just begging the question, because (once again) you’ll have to prove the existence of Heaven itself, etc, etc, etc. What you’re doing is trying to drag me down into the trap of a “REGRESSUS AD INFINITUM”, an endless string of “causes” that’s supposed to lead us into that dreamed of First Cause, but you forget that this so-called First Cause must itself be explained, and explained comprehensively. And, I’m still waiting for that satisfactory explanation!!!
Finally, those astrophysical (and purely technical) matters, such as the transformation of anti-matter into matter (and vice versa) is really way beyond my poor cognitive potential. I’ve heard that a whole lot of alien folk are very well able to do tricks in that direction and I wish them much luck, but I really can’t see what that has to do with allegedly Divine Origins of the Universe (which, once again, is nothing more than a very weak hypothesis : if you can’t come up with something more tangible and rational, there’s always a God or Gods to help you out nicely! Not for this boy here. He’s not that much of a diehard fool.
A people with out laws and commandments will eventually,lead and be lead into to their own destruction__example: the removel of prayer, meditation and pratically all forms of any religion in schools___in it’s place, we’ve moved in medal detectors and the police to enforce law___God says marriage is between a man and a woman, that homosexuality is wrong and I believe in him__yes I surround myself in his words,___If God wanted same sex anything, there wouldn’t be two sexes_therefore no pro-creation__no pro-creation = no society_no society, no reason to have a discussion on sexuality __it’s pretty simple, you don’t need to be a scholar or a genius!___My issue with homosexuals is the need to flaunt their lifestyle__I don’t feel the need to shout to the rooftops, I’m a heterosexual__who really cares?___I dispise the arrogance of the gays__while most folks would say, “Susie’s Mommy and Daddy are coming over for dinner tonight,__I have to ask how would you explain that Tammy’s Mommy and Mommy are going to the movies with us???___What adults do can’t be helped__I worry about the kids_thankfully our kids are grown and have children of their own and each have mommy and a daddy’s__the way it was meant to be__we are blessed
**************************Wake Up Everybody***************************
I’m saying———————————–like this!
When I said gays and lesbians have a mental disorder.
What I was saying was, What is the value of a man sticking his peter up another man’s rectum? Or what value is it, in a woman sticking her tongue up another woman’s vagina? No value whatsoever.
First of all,sex was made for a man and a woman’s procreativity. Otherwise, this world wouldn’t be where it is today. You know what I mean? And anything outside of that is only a dillusion. A homemade desire that thrills you, when it wasn’t even made for that. And the more they do it anyway, the more stupid and retarded they look.
But one thing I like about the male gays. They like to keep their business more private, despite them lesbians, who like to bragg about it, force themselves on others. And make a woman’s life in Prison, a woman’s worst nightmare, when it comes down to sex. About 75% of them be lesbians in female concentration camps.Forcing themselves on each other, constant fights. It ain’t like that in male Prison’s. You might find only 2 or 3 straight up gays in every cell block unit. They only approach them as they see them.
And while men like to keep a low profile on his personal business.That way, gays get respect. You digg? But These proud lesbians or studs are the main ones who are trying to pull everybody out the closet, not letting it be a secret anymore. And it pisses the nations off. Lesbians are the main ones who started these campaigns for gay marriages. I hate lesbians. They are the ones who started this proudness about being gay, where it is not a secret anymore. And causing middle eastern nations to doing crucial things to gays. Them stupid a- hags, (women) need to get themselves some business, and stay out of everybody elses.
Good gracious Heavens Cheesecake, where did you attend elementary school? Somewhere in Timbuktu? But even then….. My goodness, why do I even react to such moronic rambling?
Well Yandl here we go. Let’s start out with four fine examples.
1) The so-called immaculate conception (i.e. the myth that Jesus was born out of a “virgin”). The whole story was meant to illustrate or “prove” the truth of the prophecies regarding (the circumstances surrounding) Jesus´ birth, life and death. Of course you´re supposed to find these `prophecies` in the Old Testament) or the Torah, or whatever you want to call it). Now, it appears that the interpretation of the O.T. verse is the result of a totally faulty translation. But I’m getting a bit ahead of myself. Let’s first consider the two texts of special interest for us here. We have Matthew 1:23 and Isaiah 7:14. In Isaiah we read, …. Behold, a VIRGIN shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name (or be called) Immanuel.
“Matthew” writes, …..Behold, a VIRGIN shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, (etc).
But the trouble is, that the Greek translators of the (“original”) Hebrew text, apparently, made a grave mistake. They decided to convert the Hebrew word ALMAH (original text) into what is known in the English language as virgin. Unfortunately the Hebrew word for virgin is not almah, but BETULAH. The word almah simply means “young woman”. And certainly we can assume that, even in Jesus’ days, not every young woman (about to be married) could or should be necessarily considered a virgin. So here, as in some other places in the so-called New Testament, where the author stooped to the insertion of an OT reference, we see that the person in question nicely adapts the text to be translated to his obvious intention: SEE, I TOLD YOU, IT WAS FORTOLD!!! In plain, modern English we simply call this Deception or cheating…….
2) The story of the Cross. Quite a few weird things have, really astonishingly, been included into the whole mishmash of pseudo (?) facts referred to as “the Passion of Christ”. Let’s take that crazy tale about Barabbas and Pontius Pilate. The story goes that the (Jewish) mob gathered before Pilate was given the choice of amnesty for either Jesus or Barabbas. Now imagine the circumstance that one of the CRUELLEST DICTATORS sent out by Rome to “pacify” one of its conquered provinces, would let himself be intimidated by a random mob of thugs. According to the ancient Jewish historian Josephus one of Pilate’s specialties even included the brutal slaying of local mobs. So it seems totally improbable that this beast, Pilate, would have succumbed to the whim of a bunch of hysterical hooligans. Professor S.G.F. Brandon, in his book, “The Trial of Jesus of Nazareth”, …. ‘the very idea of such a situation is ludicrous in the extreme’. But, of course, once again an Old Testament prophecy had to be (allegedly) fulfilled: the “lamb” of the Lord had to be slaughtered. Because, oh what would have become of humankind, had the mob succeeded in letting Pilate set Jesus free, instead of Barry…..
On a more serious note, in all probability Pilate would have ordered the slaying of the mob as well as a slow death on the cross for Jesus and our friend Barriboy. He had better things to do than to step into a dispute with some pathetic Hebrew mob.
3) The nailing on the cross. This story also beautifully illustrates the fact that the Gospel writers (who went to work decades after Jesus’ supposed death, anyway) weren’t terribly familiar with the way the Romans went about nailing someone to the cross. You’ll find allusions to the whole nailing affair in Luke 24:39 and John 20:25 and 27. John even explicitly points to the nail marks in Jesus’ hands. But closer reading will reveal the fact that both Luke and John refer to reports about marks observed AFTER Jesus’ “resurrection”. We all know the story of Thomas the skeptic, the doubter, who demanded concrete evidence of Jesus’ return from the grave through the signs allegedly still visible in his hands and side (pierced by a Roman soldier). But none of the disciples had been present at Golgotha that particular Friday. So how could Thomas know anything about a hole or puncture in Jesus’ side? There’s no evidence whatsoever concerning the notion that the Romans routinely administered such (peri- or postmortem) sword punctures. Weird, strange! Anyway, driving nails through the convict’s palms wouldn’t have made any sense, because in that case the hands would have split right down the middle and the nails would not have remained in place! (A friend of mine, a biology professor at the University of Leiden, Netherlands alerted me to this circumstance years ago already). And the outstanding New Testament scholar, the late Oxford professor Graham Stanton pointed to archeological material found in Israel in 1970, comprising the bones of a young man crucified during the Roman era in Palestine. In this case nail marks were clearly visible, not in the palm region, but significantly lower, near the wrist bones. This would lend genuinely proper support to the nails in order to keep the body in place. So, all in all we can be pretty sure that the gospel writers made up this story without the slightest clue about the real course of events during a crucifixion. One more indication that the authors could not possibly have been eyewitnesses to the so-called Passion of Jesus.
4) Finally, my dears there is that really totally absurd passage about Jesus’ genealogical register. You’ll find the whole thing described in Matthew 1: 2 to 17 and Luke 3: 23 to 38. Now, the heart of the matter concerns the idea that Jesus’ lineage should be traceable right down to King David himself, as (allegedly) foretold in the OT. But the trouble is that this lineage is supposed to start out, not with Jesus’ biological mother Mary, but his (“step”)father Joseph. And, as we all know (……) Jesus wasn’t begotten by that poor Joseph, but by the very Holy Ghost himself. Great theologians, such as the eminent late professor Karl Barth, have wrestled with this issue, but no one ever succeeded in solving it satisfactorily at all. To me it’s just mythical nonsense, infantile pseudo-history, as so much of the material included in your bible. But as ridiculous as it may sound, undoubtedly millions of conservative Christians, especially here in the USA, still hang on to such absurdities and consider them fully inspired by their Lord himself. Ah well, sleep tight, sweet dreams!
Frederick H__
Thanks Tinkerbell for your lovely interpetation of the bible_It’s a shame you mock the Bibles words_It almost sounds as if you may know the Scripture and the History itself, you just don’t promote it in a good way___Alas a good friend told me a long time ago “Opinions are like buttholes, we all have one”___I could probably stop there but___The gays continue their vigil trying to be accepted into the norm and like children being ignored an going unnoticed, they throw temper tantrums and shout even louder to bring attention to their cause, even spending megabucks to help get BO elected, so he can give them what they want. Which is acceptibility and legal same sex marriage__
We have a lot friends who are gay, my husband and I’ve been married 34 years__I treat gays as having regular everyday people problems__I don’t talk about their sex life and the problems that go with it__homosexuality is a choice and no I don’t believe your born gay, that’s an excuse__if you don’t like how your treated, either stay with your own kind or be what you were created to be __Most of the gays I found are extremly talented and bright, it’s a shame they waste it on bashing christians who don’t believe in their cause and try to disprove christian heritage__Why do you Gays care_what we heteros think?__Why is it sooo important_that we see what and how you choose to live?__That’s my problem with gay anything, it’s the arrogance!!__If you want to sleep with a dog that your business__Don’t come around a bunch a Christians waving your lifestyle under our noses and expect us to accept it, that’s just ludacris and a bit suicidal__but on another note, what I know about the gays they are over the top and like a challenge__You may have attracted the attention of the liberals & BO by waving contributions their way, the gays did help put BO in the White House along wuth the wet behind the liberal college crowds__ and money does talk____but polititions don’t care about the gay cause__it’s only the smell of votes, money & power that attracts them___yes I do hang onto to God and his words__and I sleep quite well, thank you__we are all sinners my friend, but christians don’t flaunt it with rainbow parades, contributions to liberals and flamboyant behavior__we simply believe in God and try to be better people in our own way___it’s when we read things like you’ve written that makes us react__
and quite frankly Frederick, while we still have free speech dispite Liberal attempts to shut us up, I think the only reason your posting your slander on a mainly Christian/Conservative site, it’s another challenge and a way to simply rile up the christian horses
Good for you Angel-wanna-be. Good to read that you’re such a fine Christian, that you’re, ah, sooooo compassionate and caring and tolerant and civilized. We Gays will be grateful to you for all Eternity. Provided you keep your RIFLES (= your God #2, if not #1) nicely in place in your dens and living rooms!! Thank you.
And you’re right: the question is whether it wouldn’t be much, much, much better to bring back those GOLDEN, GLORIOUS OLD DAYS: the quiet, decent, tidy forties, fifties and early sixties.
– When Blacks knew their place and didn’t even think of hitting the streets to protest their White Brothers’ and Sisters’ brutalities. (And dream, mind you, solely dream of ever becoming candidate for the post of President of the US; maybe somewhere around the year 3000……).
- When women knew they were merely supposed to take care of their children, keep to their kitchens and be available whenever their Lords/Husbands wanted to unload the heavy burden between their legs.
– When the Commies knew they should be as quiet as the graves you Conservatives had duly reserved for them. Hooray.
– And, last but most certainly not least – when we, the horrible, filthy Gays didn’t even dream of ever leaving our deep, deep, deep closets.
Gosh, angel, darling, those were the days, huh? But, alas, my angel, those days are DEFINITELY OVER. No more hiding in closets. We’re all over the place right now. We’ll keep prancing and dancing and waving our rainbow flags till doomsday. And, come to think of it: go on, take out your rifles if you like. We really don’t care. We’re ready for a Second Civil War. Rest assured.
Oh yes, uhm, keep idolizing your Bible, your Prayer Books and whatever Fairy Tale collection you care to store in your bookcases. I’m sure your Lord will reserve a very special place for you up their in one of the 7 Heavens. I’ll wave to you from my place near the other side of the fence: the brightly burning hot furnace. Bye bye baby…….
Oh yes, angel-wanna-be, lest I forget and for your information, I’ve been told that the Feds are considering the instigation of a CP (= Copulation Police). Secret bedroom laser equipment will be installed all over the country enabling Government to see to it that ONLY those capable of and intending to procreate are allowed to have sex, ever. So, no more fornication for barren folk, septuagenarians, gays or even young hetero’s (married or otherwise) wanting to merely have some fun with each other between the sheets. Great, eh? Now the USA will at long last earn the status of the “Spiritually Most Advanced Nation Around The Globe”. I’m sure you can’t wait another second to see that glorious bill passed in Congress…………
Frederick H,
“four fine examples” of what, your “rambling” and “if if” so I will try to find your point in all of you jibbing.
1. The Hebrew word `almah is a virgin, a young woman
a)used of marriageable age
b)a maid or newly married girl There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin. (See the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.)
Gen 24:43, Ex 2:8, Ps 68:25, Prov 30:19, Song 1:3, Song 6:8, Isa 7:14
The Apostles did not “stoop” to do anything.
2. Barabbas and Pontius Pilate? Your personal fabrication of history does not change true history. Your opinion of a historical event does not change the accuracy of that historical event.
3. You state, “But none of the disciples had been present at Golgotha that particular Friday”. First who said it was on a Friday but you and the Papists? Why should I believe you when you say “none of the disciples had been present” when the record states the disciples and a great company of people were present? Who are you to state that one of the soldiers did not pierce his side with a sword when the record state it was to occur and that it did occur. You say “A friend of mine…alerted me”, now that is a lot of evidence.
4. Who are you to say “this lineage is supposed to start out”. Matthew records Christ genealogy from Joseph (The regal legal line) back to Abraham. Luke records Christ genealogy on Mary’s side (The natural legal line) back to Adam.
Frederick, you must do better than your rambling, your if if, a friend of mine…alerted me, to discredit God’s Word. You have stated absolutely nothing as usual.
Frederick, YOU STILL have not prove the BIBLE is full of “myths, lies, dreamed up nonsense, contradictions and tyrannical dictates” and you can not do so. ALL you have proved is your hatred toward GOD and a shameful, unmanly, effeminate and a lower life style than fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. You violate God’s Law and you will suffer the consequences.
YOU USE BIG WORDS FREDERICK, BUT I WONDER WHAT YOU’D TRULEY BE LIKE TO TALK TOO IN PERSON, IF NOT HIDING BEHIND A COMPUTER SCREEN__MOST FOLKS TALK BIG WHERE THERE NOT SEEN, ACTUALLY THEY’RE RATHER TIMID__THEY CAN BECOME RACHEL WELCH OR JOHN WAYNE IF THEY WANT, NO ONE WOULD BE THE WISER__IT’S NOT A CRIME__ BUT I’M NOT INTIMIDATED NOR IMPRESSED WITH A LARGE VOCABULARY ON WHY YOU THINK CHRISTIANITY SUCKS,___I WON’T WASTE MY TIME TRYING TO DISCUSS MY SIDE OR YOURS___I’M JUST INTERESTED IN WHY YOU COME HERE TO PEDDLE YOUR UNBELIEFS, TO A PLACE WHERE THERE SEEMS TO BE MOSTLY BELIEVERS__ARE YOU TRYING YOUR HAND AT RECRUITING, PERHAPS?__JUST A GAME?__NOTHING IN LIFE LEFT TO CHALLENGE YOU, SO YOU DO THIS?__A MERE EXCERCISE OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH DOESN’T SEEM TO CUT IT__IT JUST SEEMS TO ME, YOU ENJOY RUSTLING THE NATIVES ___
I’M A BELIEVER, YOUR NOT, AND WE BOTH THINK WERE RIGHT__ENUFF SAID
Oh my, oh my, oh my, I seem to have stirred quite a bit of holy dust here. My dearest dears, I really don’t want you to get too excited and risk a heart-attack or worse. But what’s even more, believe whatever you want, I’m even prepared to bless you for it. We do inhabit a genuinely free country, don’t we. This is not backyard Afghanistan of Saudi Arabia, but our very own US of A. So enjoy yer bible and every other book you want to kiss all day long. That’s really fine with me. Fare thee well Almah (still a young maiden my dear, not a virgin. Take some reading lessons; that’ll do you tons of good. If you don’t know the difference between a maiden and a virgin, just hop over to your local library. I’m sure you’ll find the proper answer right there in front of you.
In short, if you’re not convinced, that’s fine with me, believe me. Delightful stories you’ve got stored up there in your bible. But truth? History? Uh, uh, not as far as I’ve been able to discern. And I still urge you to read that Book by the title of, GOD, THE FAILED HYPOTHESIS. It’ll a be a veritable revelation for you, my dear.
i’M SORRY FOR YOU YANDLE and ANGEL, my dears, but He really does not exist, I can assure you. But if you want to keep burying your face deep down in a heap of sand, be my guest. Enjoy it. Masochism still seems to be a hell of a virtue for some folk. Have a nice day and a very fine weekend.
Oh, and just one other point. It’s most certainly not God I hate. How could I. I don’t even know whether He or She exists at all. It just wouldn’t make any sense. I might as well hate the king of some obscure little country somewhere in Africa. No my dears, it’s really not God I wnt to keep as far away from my life and my personality as possible, but your Orthodox Christian Religion. That’s the thing I hate with every single fiber present in my poor, mortal body. It’s your religion (and the Islamic religion just as strongly) that has (or both have) brought an incredible amount of misery, suffering and violence into this world. Your religion itself is an abomination, with its unrelenting power hunger, scare politics and vile hypocrisy. Oh, I’m so sorry not to be able to peer into the future (a few centuries ahead) and get a taste of its total demise. But OK, I’m fully convinced that human evolution will take its necessary course and eventually wipe out every single bit of your despicable religion (as well as all of the Orthodox Islamic Creed. Amenito!)
Frederick H__if you truly believe God doesn’t exist_Why do you keep bothering to Stew about it?___I hope you don’t think any of your rhetoric will dislodge a true Christian heart, because it won’t__It’s like I’ve always said before__While I think homosexuality is wrong because God clearly says it is__what I find most annoying, is the OVER THE TOP arrogance of you Gays and your inability to tolerate anything except that which you believe, as if the world revolves around you__please, please__ Your gay lifestyle isn’t anything that hasn’t been done before, you didn’t create it, you participate__gays have been around since biblical times, they were’nt accepted then either__sodom?, gomorrah?__Freddie the bible has been spat on, hidden, burned, torn and buried by better men?? than you and for more years you can fathom__It has always emerged unscathed__Even in my 1990 house fire, when all that was left was my Daughters Teddy Bear and her Bible which lay beneath it__The Bible will survive your spitting and desecration of it too__I hope you find some peace my friend__you actually sound intelligent, it seems a waste of time of putting all of your energies into hating Christians & religion.
Thank you so much angel, for your concern and your sincerity. But there’s one thing I really can’t understand. That is the tendency with religious people to think (and act) as if their creed is nothing more or less than THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. May I remind you that the (contents of that) bible you rave about so insistently is the result of a whole string of fierce battles amongst church leaders more than a millennium and a half ago. Many an “average Believer” seems to be totally ignorant about this fact and keeps thinking some Archangel whispered his or her words to the authors of the so-called Holy Books and all they had to do is to commit these “inspired” words to their rolls of parchment paper. This is so terribly naïve, but the Clergy kept feeding their flock with this nonsense throughout the ages and succeeded in keeping a tight control on the average believer’s lives, ascertaining their (the clergy’s) power and bank accounts very nicely into the bargain. And, also consider the fact that as far as your bible is concerned we’re most certainly not talking about original texts, but copies of copies of copies. Just think about this for a few seconds angel and realize in all honesty how relentlessly and cunningly you believers have been deceived throughout the ages. I am so glad to have read a couple of tomes, years ago already that really opened my eyes and saved me from wasting my time and my life on stuff that’s really too ridiculous to even contemplate for two minutes, let alone (for the better part of an hour) on a daily basis, as my poor mother, bless her, used to do. But OK, to everyone their own personal satisfaction and freedom.
Now to address your point regarding the history of gay behavior and the accompanying identity structure. Of course, I fully agree with you: it’s been there for as long as this planet has been inhabited by creatures capable of expressing themselves sexually. What a whole lot of people do not realize that homosexuality is to be found everywhere within the “Animal Kingdom”, from birds (especially geese) to humans. I heard a delightful story the other day on the radio about two male penguins in the Berlin Zoo, who – very obviously – were a couple together and regularly tended to readily available hatched eggs, feeding and protecting the chickens after “birth”. Isn’t that sweet? I listened to that story with tears in my eyes, I can tell you that. To me homosexuality is all about DIVERSITY in nature. It’s been there from the very beginning of (pre)sentient life on our planet and it will be there till the end of Mother Earth (in about 5 billion years, when our sun will have run its natural course). Centuries upon centuries ago in Ancient Greece, Persia and later on in the Turkish Ottoman Empire being and acting gay was quite normal. But as soon as Christianity hit the scene, especially thanks to that halfwit Paul, and in Islam when the fundamentalists gained the upper hand, trouble and misery emerged. To me, conservative religion is the curse of humanity, a unrivalled sign of backwardness and something to be duly banned from a civilized society asap.
Frederick – re your comment “What a whole lot of people do not realize that homosexuality is to be found everywhere within the “Animal Kingdom”…” -
I think you are right – a whole lot of people don’t realize that homosexuality is found everywhere within the Animal Kingdom – nice penguin story.
libertytrain,
A whole lot of people do realize that Sodomites live lower than the animal kingdom of fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. In the Animal Kingdom no animals live a Sodomite life-style.
My Dachshund doesn’t know that apparently.
Let the Democrats be the party of the homosexual and lesbian perverts. In about twenty (20) years of taxicab driving in several major cities, I encountered many self-identified homosexuals, many of whom thought I would be a good recruit. I also encountered quite a few while I was employed in quick printing shops, including my own. By asking them the right questions, I discovered that well over 99 percent of them, including those who claimed to be “born that way,” only “discovered” their homosexuality after they had been successfully recruited. Nobody in his or her right mind can say it is “natural.” Not one child has ever been born to a homosexual couple unless one of then had sex with someone of the opposite sex.
Therefore, laws created to give tax breaks to normal (male and female) couples who marry and are generally likely to have children to sustain or increase the population should not apply whatever to homosexual couples. And, having overheard many conversations, I know that a major reason homosexual couples want to marry is to be able to adopt children whom they can indoctrinate and recruit and this should be forbidden in the strongest possible terms.
I was a substitute school teacher for several years and one high school biology teacher had a video he liked to order the substitute to show that portrayed African hyenas as virtually all homosexual, so I did some research and found the video was bogus, fake. I saw someone writing above trying to say homosexuality in nature is common. Research shows it to be the exception and not the rule.
Finally, as to Republicans and homosexuality, unless we want to try to out “dirty trick” the Democrats and publish last-minute lies that come to late to be refuted, like the Democrats do, the Republican Party needs to maintain a “Squeaky Clean” moral position on both normal, traditional marriage and abortion – the killing of the most innocent humans by hired contract killers for the avoidance of embarrassment or inconvenience of the proven guilty — AND overcome the 100-year-old and thoroughly obsolete cliché that we are the party of the rich and the Dems care for the unfortunate. We need to weed out those who do not adhere to the Conservative principles that call for fiscal responsibility even while doing what will do most to help the most people.
In short, we cannot outspend the deep pockets of the well-heeled Democrats who overall have more to spend than we to do more advertising than they. Our natures are too focused on truth and honesty to try to out lie them. In the natural, in spite of the fiscal mess that the Democrats really caused (Rep. Barney Frank and Senator Chris Dodd in particular). But as He has demonstrated in Haiti and Chile and many unusual places with earthquakes, historic weather variance, floods, drought, and the like, Almighty God is in control. When we stand for righteousness to a level that He is on our side, we cannot lose. Remember the 6-day war when Israel was attacked on their High Holy day yet beat back their attackers and conquered considerable new land area? Or King David the Builder of Georgia who, when attacked by a force of Seljuk Turks at least ten (10) times as powerful in 1189 AD at the Battle of Didgori, preached to his men that they were going out to defend the name of the Lord Jesus Christ against unbelievers. The following morning, when the battle was joined, the outnumbered Georgians drove back the much more powerful Turks and took land close to 30 miles inside Turkey within a matter of hours. Republicans, BE righteous. Don’t compromise our core values. Be “squeaky clean” not only in the voters’ eyes, but in God’s eyes and we cannot lose.
Samual M. Smith__Well said and Amen!
Samuel M. Smith,
Very true article. Thank-you for taking time to post it.
Hers’s something to think about….Homosexuals demanding their “rights” and shouting about how unfairly they are treated by intolerable right-wing Christians. Okay, then dear homosexuals, let’s see how long a society of just homosexuals would last? Answer: one generation. You have to admit that you need new recruits to propagate. That fact alone is a compelling argument against homosexuality. Choose life…choose God, the Giver of life.
Thanks Liberty train. At long last I’ve found a fellow liberal here on this apparently very fanatical conservative Forum. But OK, this being the case I’ll still stress the following point once again: Who said that all (or even most) homosexuals are out to “recruit” anybody (in order to instigate a so-called Homosexual Society. The very idea. Where are your (reliable) statistics??? Reading the posts left on this Forum I really get the feeling that it’s you Conservatives who’re out to turn (Hetero)sexuality into a veritable Ideology of sorts. It’s all propaganda from A-Z. I really don’t see the point of wanting to force anything on anybody (heterosexuality on gays and vice versa). That would be (and simply constitutes) sheer stupidity, I’d say. Just as it would be absolutely impossible to coerce anyone into loving classical music or abstract painting, anybody would be able to force someone else to fancy a member of their own or the opposite sex. The very absurdity of it all. I wouldn’t even know how to recruit anyone, but what’s even more I wouldn’t want to either. Elaborating on the example of musical preference: I grew up in a family where the two senior children (including myself) turned out to be totally classical fanatics, whereas both juniors became jazz and pop fans, quite contrary to their parents’ liking. To me this thing about “recruitment” is such utterly ridiculous nonsense , I had to laugh when I encountered the idea on this Forum. What the hell do I care whatever gender turns on my neighbor or my colleagues at work. To everyone their own. Considering this nonsensical debate about (homo)sexuality as some sort of ideology I can’t help whispering to myself: boy, oh boy talk about PRIMITIVE THINKING. Jeez, gimme a break you conservatives…….
Kindly substantiate your anti-recruitment sentiment in light of the one-generation fact.
FrederickH – I’m not liberal – but that doesn’t change the fact that there are critters of the four-legged nature that aren’t interested in the opposite sex. It’s not always about liberal or conservative – sometimes it’s about facts or non-facts. I do not always disagree with every liberal belief or comment, nor do I agree with everything a conservative believes or says. That would be downright silly wouldn’t it? Of course, there will be those that will then call me a “rhino” because I agreed with something you said. And that too, is silly.
An acquaintance I once felt close to sent me an email about this supposed “personal liberty” website. I decided to check out this gay marriage discussion to assess whether it was a paranoid-wingnut-religious wack job website or it actually was interested in personal liberty. FAIL
THE GOOD LORD NEVER FAILS, BUT HE’S NOT HUMAN EITHER!
And folks, just for your information and enlightenment, here are two books I gladly and urgently recommend to y’all. The first one concerns a volume of scientific essays by the title of: Homosexual Behaviour in Animals, published by Cambridge University Press (UK) and Edited by Volker Sommer (University College London). A very timely work in my opinion, featuring strictly objective scientific articles on research regarding and rational analysis of animal same-sex orientation. From the preface:
Behavioural observations from both the field and captivity indicate that same-sex sexual interactions are widespread throughout the animal kingdom, and occur quite frequently in certain non-human species. Proximate studies of these phenomena have yielded important insights into genetic, hormonal and neural correlates. In contrast, there has been a relative paucity of research on the evolutionary aspects. “Homosexual Behaviour in Animals” seeks to readdress this imbalance by exploring animal same-sex sexual behaviour from an evolutionary perspective. Contributions focus on animals that routinely engage in homosexual behaviour and include birds, dolphin, deer, bison and cats, as well as monkey and apes, such as macaques, gorillas and bonobos. A final chapter looks at human primates.
Although this is certainly not a book for the “average layman”, the Introduction alone should be well worth the effort of reading, if only to offer food for (unbiased) thought on the universal manifestation of homosexuality even in pre- or non-sentient beings.
The other book may appear to be even more important for and much more readily accessible to your lot. Its title: HATE THY NEIGHBOR: HOW THE BIBLE IS MISUSED TO CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY, by Linda J. Patterson. The book straightforwardly tackles the (radical) conservative attitude towards homosexuality, within which the bible apparently figures very prominently. Patterson convincingly portrays the cunning and not so cunning tactics utilized by conservative Christians to slander and degrade erotically active homosexuals. Patterson’s main argument revolves around the idea of many conservatives’ extremely one-sided interpretation of certain scriptural passages. Shoot over to your library or your bookstore and start reading this book (that won rave reviews at Amazon.com). Enjoy and be shocked at the same time.
The books are nothing more than, more propaganda to try to further the agenda of the Gays__I’m always amazed at their arrogance and at their insistance of being right in so denouncing God and trying to prove their behavior is just__I’m also amazed at those who practice homosexuality and claim they are christian as well__God does know us all before birth__Our destiny is created by his hand__but I also believe we do have a choice, a test, to choose, between wrong and right___I beleive homosexuality is choice__And you cannot change who refuse’s to change__it is their choice alone
Comparing human behaviour with animals pales to “being created in the image of God.” I in no way want to be compared to an animal but instead want to reason with the intellect I was given by God. Its easy to justify and revel in self-gratification. Think hard about your life-CHOICES. Those choices ultimately swirl back to just you, square one.
Marilyn,
You are so correct!
Now, Marilyn, Yandle, I’ve got a very interesting passage for you to be found in your very own bible. I’ve posted it a couple of months before here on the Forum, but I’ll just copy a few lines for you here. Will be enough food for thought I suppose. It’s from the book of Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 (New International Version). Here goes:
18 I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Man’s fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath [a] ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal [b] goes down into the earth?”
So, Marilyn, Yandle, my dears, isn’t that abundantly clear: THAT THEY MAY SEE THAT THEY ARE LIKE (THE) ANIMALS….. ALL HAVE THE SAME BREATH…..
You see Marilyn we’re so keen to put ourselves way above the animals. We’re the so-called crown on Creation. At least that’s what a lot of you Christians insist on all the time. But Ecclesiastes brings you way down back to the earth. As did Charles Darwin more than a century ago. We’re just as good as the chimps and the orangutans out there in the fields (and the Zoos, poor critters). And to tell you the truth in some respects those lovely apes outdo us, I do think. They don’t pollute their habitats. They’re not the greedy grabbers, the merciless killers, the gay bashers we’ve become all the way up to the present moment (so many of us, at least).
So, created in the God’s image? Ha, ha, if there is a God, that statement should count as a full offense to this Entity, don’t you think?
By the way, Marilyn, did you know that we share 99 % (yes, ninety-nine percent) of our genetic material with the chimps? Yes Marilyn, this is not some lame speculation, no, it’s cold, rock-hard scientific fact. Think about it. The chimps are our direct cousins and you should be proud of it. They’re lovely, peace-loving critters. We can very well learn a thing or two from them.
It is interesting that you selected a passage of scripture that refers to King Solomon and his contemplations over the “vanity” of life. He is stressing over the fact that all living things meet the same end…DEATH. And that you can’t take it with you. You see, Solomon was a very wealthy man and basically had everything and everything was at his disposal. But he recognized that although he “had it all” he knew that there was more to life and that there was and is someone bigger than him. He acknowledged God. Ecclesiastes 12:13,14.
Frederick, this forum is not about animals and the hierarchy of life but about people and their choices in this life and the impact now and when your gone.
Well, its my turn to quote some scripture from my Bible, by the way, and inerrant Bible.
Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 1:12 But as many received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.
John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.
Quite the contrary to your idea that Christians or God is trying to “bash” the homosexual. You see the Bible really is a wake up call to all sinners and a blueprint for reconciliation and salvation from utter destruction.
Just like you said that you can’t force anyone to like classical or jazz music…christians can’t force anyone to make a personal decision for Christ. It is up to you and God. Just like you would step into stop an assault on a gay person at this point of your life, christians will step into stop sin’s assault on another person.
Now let’s talk about the anti-recruitment sentiment.
Marilyn,
You do as you think best but I have already found that it is a waste of my God given time to share comments with Frederick H. He has been at this post since August 9,2009 using mockery against God and God’s Word. Frederick likes to do as did the devil when he said to Eve “Yea, hath God said” or when the devil saith to Christ “for it is written” then you can give Frederick a scriptural answer, as you could here, and he will use the answer for more scoffing, but as God says “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void”. Frederick has used this posts for months to mock God with comments void of any substance. Marilyn, you have made good comments here and the one-generation fact still has not been answered.
May God bless your soul and body
Thank you.
I read the heading claiming “Gay marriage divides GOP” The only problem is It’s dividing only one GOP, and that’s Chainey. I Don’t see any other name mentioned anywhere. Is Chainey now all off the GOP? He’s right on a lot of things EXCEPT This.. He should keep his mouth shut……
My dear Yandle and Marilyn, you’re absolutely right: I’m a polemicist pur sang as the French so beautifully say. And, Dear Heavens, you mention August 2009: seven months almost already. Time does fly, doesn’t it? But, anyhow, I’m still enjoying this whole Spiel immensely, if I may say so. It’s all vanity, my dears, all pathetic vanity (on both sides). Ah, didn’t lovely King Solomon remind us of this “vile” tendency within all of us? So, I’m certainly familiar with good old King Sol’s very, very wise remarks. Ain’t that fantastic??
Well, on a more serious note: didn’t you read my March 13 (3:37 pm) comment here, a few paragraphs above? If you did, you would have noticed that I consider the very idea of a “Homosexual Society”, as you so colorfully call it, totally and really absolutely absurd and obnoxious. Just as a “Fully and Exclusively Heterosexual Society” (Lord forbid), it would, of course, be a completely sterile and stupid idea. A four year old will readily see that. I really don’t know where you got the impression that even a tiny minority of gays would be interested in such a ludicrous and nonsensical concept. No my dears, nature (or your very own Lord, if He exists) celebrates VARIETY, BIO AND PSYCHO-DIVERSITY. Not the totally static Hetero-only philosophy you seem to want to propagate. You see that’s one of the things in (Orthodox) Religion that abhors me no end: the sterile uniformity strived for. ONLY the classic family unit (pa, ma and their two or three children) should have our total blessing and support. Why? Only because some nut heads who happened to have produced your bible came up with a bunch of anti-gay stories? Come on now. What YOU want would be entirely “Against Nature”. That’s why I included these reports about homosexuality in animals. Everywhere within the Natural World we observe this VARIETY: hetero, homo and bi-sexuality. To me man is nothing more than a (merely partially) evolved natural phenomenon. All this crazy nonsense about the so-called image of God is purely a way of denying your (natural) heritage. We and the apes have a common ancestor. Period. Like it or not.
Oh yes, to get back to your insane idea about a homosexual society. You know, Mr Hitler, the greatest mass murderer in human history had a similar vision almost 80 years ago: an exclusively Aryan Society: no Jews, no Gypsies, no Blacks, no Gays, nothing but blond and blue-eyed “straights”, ready to do the Master’s every bidding. So, my dears what you’ve been suggesting here is nothing new, but it’s just as moronic and preposterous as a world exclusively in habited by Christians, Muslims or folk of whatever other creed.
And if you say homosexuality should be banned merely because of its inherent (biological) sterility why don’t you send off a similar message to all those straight couples who consider the “obligation” to raise a family (with children) absolutely abhorrent? Who choose to remain on their own as a couple and would rather die than take responsibility for the conception of any offspring of their own?
So then….
Oh and finally I’ll repeat it for you here: it’s not your God that I mock and hate, simply because I really wouldn’t know who that is. No, once again, it’s your RIDICULOUS AND ABSURD RELIGIOUS RHETORIC that I feel totally contemptuous towards. It’s an offense to human reason and intelligence, worthy of being thrown on the trash heap of the history of human folly (including Nazism and Soviet Communism).
This Frederick is a real nut case for sure. Very long winded likes to hear himself talk but really says nothing worth anything.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone WHO BELIEVES, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IS REVEALED from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became FUTILE in their thought and their FOOLISH hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man–and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the CREATOR, who is blessed forever. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the women, burned in their lusts for one another, men with men committing what is shameful and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:16-32.
Frederick, you’re outlook is not new. God knew you before you knew yourself but God still LOVES you. He is waiting for you to turn from your wicked ways.
Take a breath and think…Christianity is more logical than your arguments muster.
I don’t think you see past your anger. So be it. The decision is yours, I’ll be praying for you.
The trouble, Marilyn is that most of the things Paul mentions here are not new either. If you read the words of the Buddha, who lived hundreds of years before Paul even kicked around in his mother’s belly, you’ll find quite similar points mentioned, except for the rambling about sexuality and God, of course. You see, I get the impression that Paul himself was a very, very frustrated man, a gigantic fanatic who, after his hallucinations at the gates of Damascus (legend has it that he was an epileptic), changed his focus of (physical) persecution of the Christians to fierce verbal slamming of the Gentiles. But the moralistic fanaticism was quite the same. I hear that he was a hopeless trouble maker, who (probably) fought like a lion to keep his own position of power and prominence within the group of preachers he used to travel with. No Marilyn, I have not the tiniest gram of respect for men such as Paul, a fervent misogynist if ever there was one, (please don’t forget that) and a cynic who had the nerve to contend that whoever married rightfully did so (just because it would be better to marry than to keep the flame of sexual longing burning all too long). However, he who did not marry (and, of course, succeeded in preserving his chastity!!) did even better. You needn’t be a gifted psychologist, Marilyn, to see that this man was really obsessed with sex, but was, probably, once again, too ugly and unattractive to find a woman who’d want to share their life with this kobold. Ugh; reading about this chap and writing these sentences here now, I really feel irritation and the nausea rising rapidly within my poor body. No Marilyn, very sweet of you to want to pray for me, but I’d recommend doing something nice for your neighbors instead. Baking an apple pie would perhaps be a great idea. Lois, the lovely old lady next door here, surprised me and my man with a most delicious one a couple of weeks ago. Yum, yum. Oh, and did you ever happen to read Philip Larkin (the wonderful poet’s) biography? Well anyway, this is what he had to say about the Bible near the end of his life, “ (You know)… it’s absolutely bloody amazing to think that anyone ever believed any of that. Really, it’s absolute balls. Beautiful, of course. But balls’……. Think about it and have a very nice day.
The skewed history lessons are not impressive since you use them to dodge everyone’s questions–poor soul–do you ever look at YOU. The discussion was originally about homosexual behaviour, narcissistic at best!
I’m still praying for you. God doesn’t give up on you just because you give up on Him.
Dear Marilyn, which question(s) have I dodged here then? I had the impression that, on the contrary, I went out of my way to address the points you made in my direction. I really opened my heart and mind for you to let you know what I think and feel about YOUR OWN AGENDA. And by now it must be abundantly clear to you that our paths differ fully and radically. Is that “narcissistic”, as you now contend? I really don’t think so. I would consider myself a full-blown coward if I would pretend to agree with your convictions, whereas in reality they go against literally everything I believe in and stand for. I’ve said it before I think: I was born and raised within an “average” Methodist family. Both my parents were honest, genuine Christians, my father even wore the clergyman’s collar. And I think you must know what it is to grow up gay in an orthodox Christian environment. Not something I’d wish upon anyone having the bad luck to be kicked into life on this wretched planet.
So yes, in the course of my life I shook the shackles of biblically oriented faith, thank goodness. Much to the disappointment of my parents, of course. But to me, honesty (if that’s what you want to call it) counts as infinitely more worthwhile than (lame) tradition.
I am not a Christian, not a Believer in someone up there in the sky who knows it all and has something fantastic in store for us humans, if only we endorse (and fully endorse) the histories and the rules set there in your bible for all eternity. That, this type of faith, amounts to slavery, to primitive, mindless self-deceit, as far as I’m concerned. We live in a fully enlightened era and above all in a free country. Everyone who’s had a proper (higher) education has the obligation to think for themselves and see through the thin surface of religious dogma and endlessly repeated rhetoric. To me every book in this world having to do with “the philosophy and purpose of human existence” should be fully CRITICALLY examined. Be they called the bible, the Koran, the Pali canon or Plato’s Dialogues, for that matter. I’ve been raised with the bible, I’ve read whole shelves of critical commentary and found its (the bible’s ) contents hopelessly wanting. A collection of very interesting stories, but not nearly convincing enough to take as guidelines for your life on this sorry planet. Oftentimes I highly regret the fact that I came into this world and can only make the best of it. Sad isn’t it. But I find no solace whatsoever in religion. To me it’s a world of total deception and false promises. Well, that’s the way it is. It simply can’t be helped.
I’m sorry to hear you say….”regret the fact that I came into this life and can only make the best of it.” Your life does have value and purpose and you can have an inner joy and peace not this cynicism I hear in your comments.
I’m not asking you to “pretend” to agree with me but to dig deep spiritually with your heart not your head forgetting the past and asking God to reveal(truth)Himself to you. 1 Corinthians 2:14
Read your Bible in a new and fresh way, like your life depended on it. There is nothing wrong with admitting that we (that includes me) can’t save ourselves. Start in the Book of John.
Just a couple of resources you might find interesting…”The case for Christ” by Lee Strobel. And http://www.godandscience.org
Frederick, I wish you all the best, Marilyn
No doubt my comments will draw some hatred from all you loving Christians on this site but here goes: I was raised in a strictly fundamentalist christian household, by a mother and a father who worked hard, loved me dearly and were and are wonderful, upstanding members of their community. I know the Bible backwards and forwards, spent summers at vacation bible school and attended weekly services and during one period in highschool NIGHTLY bible studies. My world (in rural Louisiana) was on the one hand safe, happy, and appropriate for a child…the television stereotype, very white and very middle class.
But there is another insidious aspect to my upbringing that I could not see then. My world was only a perfect place with the Bible as a guidebook with all the answers because it was kept very small, very narrow. Religion and the Bible specifically were used to justify things such as religious intolerance, racial segregation, women’s subjugation to their husbands, xenophobia, homophobia, even American imperialism.
Anyway, my point is this: you angry, angry Christians here who want to hold on to everything you think is rightfully yours and only yours because the Bible told you so, please, expand your view of the world. Get to know a gay person and his spouse and you’ll see that they love each other and fight with each other and worry about their kids just like you. Befriend a Muslim American if you dare and I’ll bet they’re afraid of terrorism just like you are. Heck, have an open, honest discussion with a Democrat and I’ll guarantee you that they too want to see America come out of this recession stronger and with a more secure future for our children.
I know how safe it feels to keep your world so small, so very narrow. To think that all you know is all there is to know. But it’s not a true reflection of the world. If you can accept that you might not be absolutely right about what you thought God commanded of us, I promise, though it’s scary to leave the safety of your black and white world behind, a world of varying hues and truer colors is so much more rewarding.
I’ll wrap up with this final thought– God as depicted in the Bible changes and grows throughout the WHOLE “book”. He makes mistakes that he regrets, he makes covenants, he makes new covenants based on new circumstances. Correct? We as a reflection of him grow just as he grows in the Bible. We are not static as he is not static. And yet, because you cling so closely to the text of the bible, you stop him in time. Making him never changing after the last word of the new testament. Making him static, stuck , as if made of stone. And so I would ask: why you are worshiping the graven image of God as formed by the immutable words of a 2000 year old text and not a living God who no doubt would have grown and changed as he always has?
James-Allen,
You state “I know the Bible backwards and forwards” but your last paragraph shows the contrary. Sadly and most important, from your comments you do not know the God of the Bible, who created Heaven and Earth and All that is in them, not just some “world so small, so very narrow”.
We must hear God’s Word and have it applied to ourselves when He says, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: BUT GOD, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins, That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life, Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” I hope you will.
Yandle, I think you misunderstand me. I didn’t mean to imply that God is in any way small or narrow. Christianity has many wonderful, beautiful teachings that make us all better if we strive to follow them. “Love they neighbor as thyself…” That phrase alone could solve most of the world’s problems.
But if you use the words of the Bible (and by extension your view of God) to support your bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, or anything else that you fear because you don’t understand it, that IS small and narrow. I suppose it’s the same as saying ignorance is bliss…and I get how seductive it is to just accept what you’re told and that growing is hard work. But at its worst that world view is not simply small, but also hateful, destructive, oppressive, etc.
Darn auto-correct! Before someone feels compelled to correct me: “Love THY neighbor…”
James-Allen,
The words of the Bible teach us that “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Rom 3:23); that “by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Rom 5:12) that “He that believeth on him (Christ) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18) that we may be saved “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3:24). Jesus Christ affirmed “But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.” (Luke 12:5) I do understand that SIN brings eternal damnation.
I do not use the words of the Bible to support bigotry, misogyny, and homophobia because those are not part of my life but Peter tells us “Fear God”,(1 Peter 2:17) if we allow SIN that we have not confessed in our life. John tells us “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us”. (1 John 4:18-19) You and I must come to Christ or stay condemned in our sin. I say with Joshua, “but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD”. Josh 24:15 I hope you will say the same for eternal salvation.
Ah, James-Allen, at last we may welcome another person here WITH A SANE SET OF BRAINS. Yes James, the bible is nothing more than a bunch of nice stories mostly produced by fanatics who fought like mad to get THEIR VERSION of the so-called truth between those two unholy covers.
It (= the bible) cannot be and has not in any way been proven to originate with a God (whoever that may be, anyway). I fully agree with you, the God of the Conservatives is nothing more than a wooden statue, an idol, stuck up somewhere in an imaginary heaven. It’s been created by a bunch of power hungry bigots going out of their way to prevent us ordinary folk to think for ourselves and bring our very own intelligence into play whilst reviewing the so-called holy books. Be they the bible, the koran or the Popul Vuh. In short, what those bible beaters are throwing up here amounts to a full affront to human intelligence. Period.
Thank you, Frederick. I couldn’t agree more…and just to elaborate on what you said, it baffles and saddens me that so many cannot apply critical thinking to what they are told is the truth. And that’s really the crux of how religion is used to control. Christianity tells the believer he will not achieve grace without faith–blind, deaf and dumb. He must just accept every word from this collection of cobbled together ancient writings (and don’t even get me started about why some writings are included and some are not or how they were changed to reflect the politics of the church) as more valid than what he can see with his own eyes, because to provide any shred of proof would negate the importance of that faith. That’s a convenient catch 22. Imagine if science were allowed to use such a standard, oh right, that’s the very antithesis of science.
Spiritual discernment is UNattainable to those who reject Christ. You are spiritually DEAD.
The fear of the Lord IS the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 1:7
Amen and Amen
Oh, by the way, a Thousand Hoorays for President Obama, who’s vying to get that total Idiocy by the name of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell banned forever. Great, great, great. Did you know that King Alexander the Great’s army consisted mostly of gay couples? And he and his men conquered all of the then contemporary civilized world, before he even turned 33!!! Not a single battle lost. Think about it! Ah yes, Alexander’s lover’s name was Hephaistion. Lovely man! Died much and much too young.
Are you planning on enlisting? Just curious!
who gives a damm gay devorce court will be a funny show
No, my dear Marilyn, they don’t want me in there. But not because of what I suppose you think (being too much of a flaming ‘fruit cake’). No, no, no: my poor eyesight just isn’t up to par. Quite simple. However, I would have thoroughly enjoyed the experience, considering the presence of all those gorgeous numbers……
What a great idea Andy, those gay divorce courts. Nothing less than a legal counselor’s wet dream, don’t you think so???
A court in Oklahoma already denied a lesbian couple a divorce due to hopeful trickery–ah, soooo admirable.
Hopeful trickery? What’s that supposed to mean? Well, I gather that if this refers to malpractice or malicious intent on the part of the couple, it will certainly not be unique to the judge. That is, as far as couples in general(hetero- or homosexual) are concerned. I’d urge you to consider all the dirty tricks pulled by thousands if not hundreds of thousands of hetero couples with children to get their custody and/or alimony wishes fulfilled. You’re a rather vindictive character Marilyn, to gloat in the misery of your fellow citizens. You disappoint me. I thought you were a real Christian woman. Loads of shame on you!!!!!
Read up on the case and be informed about your own kind before you spew untruths.
Well Marilyn, my dear, the case as such has nothing to do with the essence of my argument. My argument concerns the fact that you’re very quick and very eager to find fault and malicious intent with people who don’t share your own small minded, vindictive way of looking at your ‘neighbors’, your fellow Americans. I’m not speaking in terms of MY OWN KIND or YOUR OWN KIND, because to me that amounts to plain old dumb stereotyping. (Think about the way KKK folk talk about Blacks and Latinos!!!) And reflect on what’s to be found in your very own bible: ‘judge not, lest thou be judged’. Your exhibitionistic religiosity is nothing more than a paper-thin veil of Biblical BS, Marilyn, underneath of which sits a whole world of vile and petty middle class smugness. Remember what Jesus said (or is supposed to have said) about the Pharisees? I’m quite sure you do. Reread Luke 18:9-14, especially 14. Ha, your Jesus might have been addressing you yourself.
By the way, I’m not quite sure which divorce case you’re referring to here. I read an article about the (2008) O’Darling case in Tulsa, but for the life of me I couldn’t find anything depicting an “unlawful” or “immoral” intent on the part of this woman filing for divorce. Well, you know it’s as with reading your bible: ultimately it’s your very own interpretation that counts. You can, of course, take everything you read quite literally; the way four year olds listen to fairy tales. But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and estimate your intelligence at least a bit above that Kindergarten level…….
Sorry, when you blast the Bible, you can’t use biblical references and nonsensical reasoning to substantiate your arguments—doesn’t work and makes you look like your own descriptions. I thought you were an atheist?
Luke 18:9-14 is talking about the doctrine of justification by faith. This parable is about the Pharisees who trusted in their OWN righteousness and Jesus said that even the most fastidious Pharisee falls short of God’s divine standard.
Have you placed your faith in Christ? Or atheism?
Well Marilyn that’s exactly what you do: justify your hate and your bigotry by referring to all sorts of biblical passages. It’s precisely as you find it there within that particular passage: Self-righteousness, Marilyn; it’s a “sin” according to your very own bible. And you know what he said, your Jesus (whom I DO NOT BELIEVE IN, but nonetheless): Let he/she who is without sin, cast the first stone. And that’s what you and your ilk constantly do, Marilyn: stone casting, spitting on your fellow Americans. It’s a bloody shame and you know it. So I’m most certainly not a Christian and the more I read comments like yours, the more my resolve to keep religion as far away from my life is being reinforced. We’ve had (almost) 2000 years of Christianity, Marilyn and about 1400 years of Islam and look at the world: full of hatred, poverty, racial and sexual discrimination, insatiable greed and child abuse. And the irony of it all is that the Believers, those who consider themselves superior to us Agnostics and Atheists, are to a large extend responsible for the misery in this world. Religion? Ugh. So, I’m a happy Agnostic (leaning even towards Atheism, for your information). But I went to school, so I know what’s in their, in that bible of yours! Rest assured.
Sorry, typo: in there
Please stop with the pseudo-theology, its laughable. The Bible is the inspired, inerrant and eternal Word of God. John 1:1
Your problem is with God, not me. Its easy for you to direct your anger at another but heaven-forbid if you really faced and challenged God. You know that the Bible wants us to reason with and test the scriptures. I know that you haven’t really delved into that because of your elementary analogies and your scorn for God. If you really are so convinced of scriptural fallacies then do yourself a favor and truly educate yourself theologically.
FYI-I have a medical education, also my mother. My father was a scientist/engineer. But of course, all that is meaningless in an eternal context.
No, Marilyn it’s not “pseudo-theology”, it has absolutely nothing to do with “theology”. It’s just plain, good, old logic. The bible is really replete with totally nonsensical tall tales. I’m surprised to read that you have a background in medicine. You should know better than to consider the bible the “inerrant, inspired, eternal word of god”. Where’s your hard evidence? How can you be so sure? Your argument is entirely based on your so-called Faith, not on directly and reliably controllable hard-core proof. So stop insulting my intelligence and begin to educate yourself on the topic of “bible criticism”. I have already mentioned the book by professor Victor J. Stenger: “GOD, The Failed Hypothesis”. Very enlightening stuff. And there are so many more. For instance, Bart D. Ehrman’s book, Lost Christianities, The Battles for Scripture and The Faiths We Never Knew, published by Oxford University Press, New York, in 2003. Yes Marilyn, the bible as we know it today is the result of (a history) of purely political power ploys and has, in all probability, absolutely, but really totally nothing to do with a God existing somewhere in a heaven. It’s just a mix of historical tales, pseudo-historical rambling, static existential “philosophy” and contorted plagiarism. Nothing else. Nice to read as interesting “literature”, but a guideline for our lives? No, forget about it. A full waste of time and energy.
Oh, one more thing: what really puts me off put-off completely during faith related debates are those lame pseudo-threats, the blackmailing in the style of, AH, WAIT TILL YOU MEET GOD, YOU’LL HAVE A FINE TASTE OF HIS WRATH AND FULL POWER. You know who that reminds me of: great, old Sigmund Freud, who in his unforgettable book : The Future of an Illusion (about the illusory nature of religion) compares God to the old-fashioned Victorian Pater Familias, the almighty and forbidding bully, ever ready to raise his whip and teach you a lesson you’ll never forget. Talk about sadism Marilyn, you’ll find it right there in your very own bible, especially within the so-called Old Testament (and sado-masochism in the New Testament: the whole story about Christ’s Passion). It’s full of hideous cruelties and paternalistic harassment, Marilyn. If I’d had any children I would have been very careful to read any of those horribly perverse stories to them, I can tell you that. Ameninito!
Certainly, with all your literature brain-busting research, you have learned that defensive posturing is generated by fear. Simply go to the source-God. The Creator and Sustainer of life. Yes, your very breath is given from outside of you. You have No ability to command life, you must succumb to universal laws. I realize that atheist really hate themselves more than they hate God, unable to receive the Love of God in their lives. Maybe it is naive of me to think that God-haters can simply let go of their hatred and see the truth–but sadly, in all honesty, it looks hopeless.
Food for thought…Medical experts cannot explain how and what triggers labor. Does that mean the woman does not experience the pain or that birth follows shortly thereafter?
Yes dear, you’re right: 99 % of the Universe is complete mystery to even the most gifted genius scientist around. How can a certain (genetic, anatomical and chemical) constellation generate a particular type of thinking and feeling or even a certain type of personality. We’re baffled, aren’t we? We barely understand this or not at all, in fact. But does this neccesitate the notion of a “God”? I don’t think so, quite clearly because this amounts well-known problem of “begging the question”. where is God? God doesn’t talk (not clearly anyhow), God isn’t immediately observable, if (s)he he exists at all. In “primitive” societies God or the Gods are just taken for granted. But we’ve been to college, we’ve learned how to think critically, learned to shun magical thinking and not believe in “miracles” anymore. So, I really don’t know what to begin with the concept of God. A couple of years ago I read Neil Donald Walsch’s books and I must say I was impressed. The type of God portrayed within his books appeals much more to me than the God of the traditional testaments. But still, when Neil asked God to define Himself, all we got was a bunch of pure baloney, as vague and evasive as ever imaginable. I was totally put off. Even more so when I tried my hand at one of Neil’s experiments to let God talk to me. Try as I might, God just kept his mouth as ever before. No Marilyn, for the time being I’m finished with trying to find out if God’s really there and who he/she might be really. I think it’s a pathetic waste of time. Sorry.
Sorry for those wretched typos. I’m being too impatient.
God knows your heart…and if your intent at the outset of your inquiry is to discount Him, you bet you won’t find Him. Seems to me that you are sabotaging your own destiny. I certainly wouldn’t begin with another person’s method of spiritual discovery. Begin with the God of the universe. (Even Einstein acknowledged the fact of God.)God’s plan as revealed in the Bible. You need not go any where else for spiritual answers. The God of the Bible is the only God who has withstood the harsh criticism of every century and still remains just as strong as when Jesus Christ was here on this earth. There are many intellectual people, respected people who believe. You just minimize everything to fit into your constrained atheistic box. Much to think about… Put down the verbal artillery and diligently seek God with a PURE heart and some patience.
Well, Marilyn I don’t think we’ll ever truly understand, let alone accept or endorse each other’s arguments and motives. We’re simply talking about two radically opposed universes here: the universe of “blind” faith (yours, as far as I’ve been able to discern) and the universe of radical skepticism (mine) where hard evidence and full reliability have top priority. To me the concept of God as revealed within the traditional scriptures (bible, Koran, etc), appears to me as extremely speculative and arbitrary. Christians and Muslims keep trying to convince us (Non-believers) that theirs is one and only one God. But they’re treading on very thin ice. For all we know there could a whole legion of Gods or none at all. God or the Gods have yet to reveal themselves RELIABLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY to all and sundry. Besides, there is no way, really, to demonstrate that the concept of a God or Gods, for that matter, did not originate purely and solely WITHIN THE HUMAN BRAIN. I’m still waiting for the final proof of the opposite: an veritable, transcendent being out there somewhere!!!
And, once again, Marilyn we’ve had almost TWENTY CENTURIES of Christianity and Fourteen centuries of Islam, and the number of Skeptics (and Pseudo-Believers, those who’re merely going through the motions, but whose “faith” is as thin as is tissue-paper) is growing steadily, I can assure you.
So, let’s say good-bye here and try to respect each other’s choices: I was probably born a Skeptic and will die a Skeptic. You’re a born(again?) Christian and will in all probability leave this vale of tears still steeped in exactly the same position. Happy continuance……..
Yes, I do respect your opinion. But remember all Born-again Christians were not born that way–we were born sinners, separated from God. We took a step of faith and at that moment God promises to dwell with us through the Holy Spirit.
Let me paraphrase…”For God so loved Frederick that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever(Frederick) believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
Faith is not foreign to us…we engage in it all day. From believing that there will be sun and air for us when we wake up ( I doubt you have a oxygen tank next to your bed or a space suit at the ready.) Or trusting that the water you drink is not poison.
God will never force Himself into your life, He gently knocks. “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him and he with Me.” Revelation 3:20
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is Simple. Don’t make it soooo hard. Search out God where He can be found…in His Book–the full revelation of God. The Holy Bible. You need nothing more.
Frederick, its been a lively and interesting debate, you sure put up a fight! But underneath all your verbiage you sound like you are really searching. May you find the peace of God through Jesus Christ—that is my prayer for you. Believe me I will be praying for you.
Marilyn
God has always been the best and truest compass for moral behavior. Homosexual activity is one of many sins we are to overcome. It has been over emphasized and too many people think of it as a right. It is not, no more than child molestation, prostitution,polygamy,or being unfaithful to your spouse. I will pray for you and your sin as
well as my own and pray that we all walk closer to God and His will.
I first qualify that I am a Christian & believe in the in-errant word of the Bible. So my comments are for those who are believers. I believe that every law and word of God is for his glory and for our benefit. I can only note what I have seen in my 50+ years of life. I have watched media and government elitists embrace the homosexual lifestyle whiled putting down the the traditional family, especially fathers along with anything Christian. Adding to the destruction of families has been certain feminist groups, citing that fathers are unnecessary & a woman can go it alone just as well. Tax laws and divorce attorneys put further pressure on marriage today. I also have to ad certain “so called Christian” people who forget that we are to love the sinner but hate the sin. I do not believe “gay bashers” are people who love & follow Christ. Most people who misuse the Bible DON’T search the Scriptures. They simply find a text that seems to support their prejudice and then spend the rest of their lives quoting (or misquoting) that text. The cover ups of pedophile priests, many themselves practicing homosexuality in the Roman Catholic Church certainly did not help achieve moral high-ground. A culture of ever changing rules & even definitions such as marriage confuses those who are not well grounded in faith. All the while this has been going on our culture has suffered greatly. Now for my “even if you are not a believer” speech. As in abortion debate, the issue is about definition. I for one believe that based on the way we are changing & interpreting our laws today if we change the definition of marriage to include those of the same sex, our liberal interpreters of our great Constitution will most certainly push for other non-traditional marriage options. Do I think people should be banned from living a homosexual lifestyle? No, but marriage should be reserved for 1 man & 1 woman & I do not trust Republicans or Democrats to care unless it helps them get elected.
Men and men and women and women can be freinds and leave there wills to each other and also love each other without getting married. Same sex marriage is just plain wrong and is only a slap in he face to christianity. Homosexuality is an abomination to God ! This will be one of many reasons this nation will fail and most homosexuals in there heart know this to be true.
Well Sir Montgomery, Christianity deserves to be slapped and slapped real hard. It’s done nothing to further humanity’s progress towards peace, understanding and justice to all (including the poor and the oppressed). Quite the contrary: it has sided with horrible tyrants, thieves and mass murderers (such as Hitler once and Poetin now). Christianity and Islam constitute a full curse to humankind and should be eradicated as quickly as possible from this shamelessly raped planet Earth. Not homosexuality but the hypocrisy of you Christians is what’s going to bring this country down. Your greed knows no limits, it’s you Conservative Christians who have dumped us into the current economic crisis by promoting the perpetuation of a foul capitalistic mentality in our country. You keep blathering and whining about God this and God that, but in fact you don’t give a damn about the needs of people in real distress in this country (e.g. the horrendously obese children in the rapidly growing number of junk food areas within the US. Children whose parents can’t afford a decent breakfast, let alone a wholesome evening meal for their kids). Think about and worry your butt off about it. Yes, this is what you should be concerned about: the growing number of very unhealthy looking children (and adults) in this country and the alarming rise of cardio-vascular diseases and cancer. Let your God do something about it, at long last.
HATE and INTOLERANCE coming from the mouth of a self-proclaimed homosexual. Shameful—Ha! I haven’t heard one word about any homosexual or atheist groups rushing to help Chileans or Haitians?
Grandma always said, “Think before you speak.”
Christian groups do much to come to the aid of fellow man.
For example, If you remember the school attack that took place in Russia a few years ago, where children and adults were held hostage. Approximately 300 people were killed at the hands of terrorists. My Pastor read a letter from a father who had lost 2 of his children and explained the situation for himself and other families. Facing an unknown future and facing burial expenses and the like. Our Pastor encouraged the congregation to give as the Lord led. The offering plate was placed at the doors upon our exit. The next week our Pastor informed us that 70,000 dollars had been collected and was promptly sent in full to that community.
I don’t see or hear an ounce of greed in that real-life story.
Christianity=compassion.
There we go again Marilyn, SELF-PROCLAIMED HETEROSEXUAL, whatever that may mean. Have you been to Haiti, PERSONALLY to check whether any atheists or agnostics did help out those poor quake victims? No, I don’t think you have. So, I guess you don’t know anything about the real identity of the majority of those brave helpers. Remember those totally insane Christians, those criminals who tried to steal away a whole group of poor Haitian children from their parents? Great, eh?
No need for any propaganda, Marilyn if you want to come to the assistance or rescue of anyone in dire circumstances. That’s what I hate about you Christians, indeed: the entire world should know about your sacrifices in the name of jesus, god, or whatever chap you’ve invented to keep your delusional thinking nicely alive. Get a life Marilyn. If you want to help others, that’s fine enough. We rally don’t need to hear all those stories about your christ or your god all the time. We’ve had more than enough of that, as it is.
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. James 3:13-18.
Don’t you get it? Your anger stalls your progress in every direction. A direct quote from you—”that is what I hate about you Christians.”
Homosexuals constantly bemoan the “woe is me” attitude. Pushing for their supposed rights. Screaming to receive acceptance from a people who truly see past their narcissism and care about their very souls. But seems as though you don’t really want our acceptance just the platform to criticize Christians. Parading and protesting just to stir up reaction.
Go ahead and lecture about hypocrisy–I know you will. But first reread the part about the bitter envy and self-seeking first. Then we’ll tackle the hypocrisy argument later.
People. You are all brainwashed. And obviously ignorant.
Christianity is a cult. There is no Jesus waiting for you in heaven. You will be judged only by your own higher self. But wait a minute…Aren’t you all committing a sin here? Hmm… I thought one of Jesus’ greatest teaching was “Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged.” Oh but that’s right- you only want to pick and choose what you want to take out of the Bible. HAH! All you people who were NOT virgins before marriage, those of you who covet your neighbors wives, get divorced, beat your kids, molest your neices and grandchildren, get a haircut, lie cheat and steal…you are all so holier than thou.
I DO hope there is someone who will judge you because you will all surely go to hell for your sins.
Let those without sin cast the first stone.
Oh yes, absolutely agreed Brenda: “religiousness” amounts to pure brainwashing, the need to set oneself deeply apart from others who refuse to subscribe to heaps of total hogwash. I can only see this drive (to be found in so-called Believers) to try and not only convince others of the “holiness” of their creed, but also of the inferiority of the other person’s stance, as nothing more than a psychiatric condition, a disease, caused by years, nay decades of unrelenting verbal “beating”. We should pity such folk and hope that one day they’ll finally come to their senses and start living in the 21st century, in the first place.
It fascinates me to see skeptics of the Bible all of a sudden become experts of the Bible. Oops, there goes your credibility!
Matt 7:1 This passage of scripture is not condemning all judgment but rather instructing believers to discern between “dogs and swine” and other brethren. Matt 7:6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine; lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.”
Remember, Christian means “follower of Christ.” We did not become Christ/God. Christians struggle as Paul did when he said, I do what I do not want to do and do not do what I want to do. Everyone struggles with sin in this sin-filled world.
Christians just choose to submit to a Just and Righteous God.
Have a good day.
Ah, great Marilyn, so, seeing that you’re such a staunch “Paulinist”, I’ve got the following recommendations for you. 1) You intend to stop doing what you don’t want to do? Well, stop yer fanatic (VERBAL) GAY BASHING, for starters. 2) You want to start doing what you honestly want to (or rather should) do? Organize a swell GAY COUPLES DAY in your neigborhood, collect a plate full of dollars there and then and give that precious amount of cash to the poor, obese mothers populating yer quarter. They’ll adore you for it. Oh, you probably already know that those “wretched” gays usually do have a fair amount of dollars to spend, don’t you……… Have a great party!
I’ll do better than that–witness to a few LOST souls because their eternity depends on it.
Much to your surprise I do tithe and yes it goes to very needy people with no partiality to the recipient’s private lives.
Don’t worry I’m boycotting the DOS as many other people I know.
You are an interesting guy-Frederick…I see that you equate scripture with “gay-bashing.” But really it is your aversion to conviction of your sin. Sounds like you’ll fight to the death. So sorry…
Yes I certainly do equate what you call “scripture” with senseless archaic ranting and raving. You and your cronies have insulted people’s intelligence for ages with your quotations, your threats and lame promises Marilyn, but not anymore now. We, critical readers, see right through your deceptive story weaving and most certainly won’t buy any of your BS these days. We want hard proof, evidence, the truth. No nice bedtime stories anymore. Forget about it. If you want to waste your life and keep burying your head into loads of primitive tall tales, be my guest. But by now you should know where I stand: I despise your conservative Christianity to the bone and want to be left in peace!!!
God’s law TRUMPS man’s law or mans “feelings” of right / wrong.
Absolutes (God’s law) do exist and disobedience to them with impunity cause consequences (reaping and sowing) and Judgement in the next life to come!
We love the sinner because we too are not perfect BUT we hate the sin!
All sin.
Being gay is a life style, choice, desire.
Slice it anyway you want………God shall not be mocked!
Spare the God is love analysis…of course He is BUT He is also judge and if Holy must judge righteously.
Homosexuality is an abomination in His eyes.
An unnatural act. Not what he created us for!
What part of this don’t you understand???????
One more question, my dears: where were you prior to your glorious biological conception? Yes, do I hear you? Yeah, nowhere! And, where will you be after the undertaker has committed your precious body to the grave or the oven? Do I hear you once again? Well yes, nowhere, again. As Brenda said a while ago here above: JESUS WON’T BE WAITING FOR YOU UP THERE, because he’s just as dead as you and I will be one day in the future. Remember that!!!!!
The core issue is sIn, please observe “I” is in the center of my sin. Sin is a “self focused” issue that we are all guilty of, Christian and non Christian alike. No matter who, how or what we believe we are all sinners by any standard outside of ourselves. But herein is a problem, standard; what standard, which standard? Who needs a standard anyway? Answer: we all do! Without a standard of measurement for example, how do we know what size shoe or clothes to buy, how much we weigh or even how much money we make or spend on a weekly basis? The real issue then is not a standard but who’s standard we use. It seems more palatable to use our own “self satisfying” standard to suit our personal needs, wants or desires. And if you disagree with me, you are obviously a hateful, bigoted, homophobic, racist according to “my standard” of belief. Redefining words to suit our own belief system is the major contributor, depending of course on “what your definition of is, is” (example: “gay” used to mean “happy”). We simply redefine pedophile to mean adults who choose children as sexual partners, rapists as a chosen aggressive sexual behavior and serial killers as those who are simply expressing their need to feel superior by eliminating the inferior. They aren’t serial killers, they’re collateral abortionists, yeah, that’s it!
Think about it, if “behavior” defines “who we are”, shouldn’t we simply open the prison doors allowing everyone the “freedom” to express themselves in an openly loving society? After all, I love children and just have a different way of expressing my feelings towards them. I love sex and simply want to share it with anyone and everyone, anytime and anyplace whether private or public, with animals or reptiles, in a group or by myself what difference does it make to anyone but me? I love killing things, insects, animals or people, it doesn’t matter to me except that people which I redefine as things, just happen to be my personal choice. Would it be easier for you if I was a licensed physician working at a planned parenthood or other government sanctioned “healthcare” facility? After all, don’t I have the right or the freedom to express myself in any way that I see fit? Answer: no, I do not!
We all need a standard higher than self. History could be used as a higher standard. Government could be used a higher standard. But the flaw of self is inherently present in any higher standard except… God almighty, the creator of all things! Sin is the problem and Jesus is the answer… Believe it or not…
Thank you guys. Great critical thinking!
The problem Max and Marlyn is that if we follow your reasoning culminating in, (solely?) “Sin is the problem and Jesus is the answer”, this poses the obligation of having to define “Sin” (as you see it) as a Universal Type of Misconduct (and misguided cognition or thinking, if you like). But the point still is, WHO’S GOING TO SET A STANDARD and (b) why should THIS PARTICULAR STANDARD be considered absolutely universal? Should your scriptural body of dogmata, for instance, be considered absolutely superior to the words of the Buddha, Lao-Tse, Plato (who never condemned homosexuality as such, by the way), the Wiccan priesthood, etc, etc, etc? By what (UNIVERSALLY VALID) STANDARD, once again? The problem with you people is that you fail to distinguish between (Dogmatic) Tradition and Universally Valid Ethics. Notions such as “Jesus died for our sins” and “God rewards those that keep his commandments” fall wholly within the first category: they’re fully and indisputably DOGMATIC, bound to the BELIEF SYSTEM of a limited number of human beings, most of whom living within the Western part of this planet. But, for instance, child rape (or rape in general, period) and providing food and shelter for your children could be safely considered Universally ethic and mandatory on account of their functionality regarding the preservation of life (child care) and the integrity of the human body. So, the latter has totally and really absolutely nothing to do with religiosity, God’s laws, Sin or whatever dogmatic “nonsense”. It’s just plain, sane commonsense; logic even a four year old child born somewhere in the Himalaya mountains can readily understand, without ever having heard anything about Jesus, the Buddha or Lord Krishna.
But your Jesus or Krishna for that matter fall within quite another league altogether. These are “invented” entities, bound to a very particular cognitive system (Christianity or Hinduism). The “truths” they claim for themselves have no Universal Validity per se, they are “faith related”, and who will discern that the (dogma of) resurrection is “absolutely true”, whereas the Hindu (or Buddhist) dogma of reincarnation is a lie? HOW precisely are you going to provide any decisive proof that’s going to convince any living human being on our precious planet earth? Yes, how??? Think about it, long and hard; it’ll do you a world of good.
So you see, dear folks, it’s all not nearly as simple as you want Non Believers (Atheists, Agnostics, like myself) to accept. You’ll really have to come up with a whole heap of much more intelligent reasoning to convince me of the Absolute Significance of your eternal ranting about Sin and your Savior and the whole rigmarole you so often throw in people’s faces left and right. It’s just what it is: Dogmatic BS, nothing more or less.
What?????
Yeah, quite a plate-full, huh? Not very, very easy to grasp. I do apologize, my fault entirely. But ok, I’ll try to be more to the point and illustrate my argument with a few simple cases in point. Here goes.
So, we’ve got hard facts and we’ve got pure dogma. That’s the main thing here. For instance, we now know that the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around, as the Church wanted us to believe and preached for centuries on end. Well, as you probably will already have understood, the second point (sun orbits the earth, so the earth is the central celestial body) represents PURE DOGMA. It’s simply not true, but, according to the Church at least, is fully in line with scriptural reasoning.
Now, the concept of SIN falls squarely within the category of SCRIPTURAL OR CLERICAL DOGMA. Sin is a label. You and your (atheist or agnostic) neighbor both see or hear someone behaving in a certain way; you say, AH THAT’S A SIN, your neighbor says, I REALLY DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING about , he or she is simply having a good time, it’s got nothing to do with sin. And, well, of course, you insist, precisely because you’ve found a particular scriptural passage calling that type of behavior a sin. Now let me be even more precise and concrete.
Take the point of drinking alcoholic beverages. To a Muslim that’s a horrible sin, a full abomination to Allah (or God, if you want). But to a Christian it’s fully legitimate, as long as you’re over 18 and you do not abuse or overuse alcohol. So, the Muslim rule here is a typical instance of Dogmatic Reasoning: the Koran says it’s sinful, so it must be sinful, period. Same story with pork: the Koran forbids its consumption, it’s a “sin” to take a nice slice of ham on rye, period. But even a conservative Christian like you yourself will, in all probability, have no qualm here whatsoever. So my point here is, who is (absolutely) right here? The orthodox Muslim or the Christian ham lover? Is there an OBJECTIVE criterion to settle the course here? No my dear, there simply isn’t.
And now we’ve reached our central issue here: homosexuality or rather acting gay. Is it a sin? Yes, according to the orthodox Muslim and the conservative Christian. No, says the Atheist (and the Agnostic). There is no HARD , OBJECTIVE body of knowledge prohibiting gay behavior at all. Ah, but I hear you now: it’s against nature, because of its inherent barrenness. But even that is a BLATANT LIE. Precisely because “nature” (whatever that may be, by the way) isn’t static, but wholly focused on BEHAVIORAL VARIETY and POPULATION BALANCING, that is to say, “homosexuality” contributes to the prevention of overpopulation, as do congenital, heterosexual barrenness, age-related infertility, the outbreak of epidemics, etc, etc. Procreation is anything but mandatory (at least in a modern society such as our own). If it were, our planet would become totally uninhabitable in less than a century, I can assure you.
Well, my dear I do hope I’ve been clear enough or you now. Happy reflection.
So you live in a world of total subjectivity? Then go jump off a cliff! Happy contemplations.
What is wrong with you people? We cannot have an “anything goes” society, or society will fail, which it is doing. We do not need to know what goes on in someone’s bedroom–keep it private. Being gay is merely a SEXUAL attraction to ones own sex–nothing more. Gays are NOT a new race, or gender of people and still have all of the same rights as any other male or female citizen. To allow them to “marry” is ridiculous! Since the beginning of mankind, it has NEVER been acceptable or normal for two people of the same sex to “mate up” or “marry”. If it were the “norm”, mankind would die off. There is obviously a “short-circuit” or glich in the wiring or genetics of a homosexual, and we should be looking long and hard for a cause and CURE. If you are happy with your sexual preference–fine, keep it to yourself. The rest of society does not need to know. GO BACK IN THE CLOSET!! Other than “Gay Radicals”, most gays blend into society and lead normal lives, with their jobs, families, etc., keeping their sexual lives private and do just fine. Quit trying to cram gay “rights” down the rest of society’s throats! The majority rules in a democracy and we make our laws for a reason. If gays want the same legal rights as a married couple, ADOPT each other!
If that’s your conclusion, you haven’t read my comment very carefully. The only thing I’ve tried to clarify is the RELATIVITY of the concept of SIN. I really don’t see why that should amount to the endorsement of “total subjectivity”. That the eartch orbits the sun is not a subjective notion. It can be and has been very clearly and very objectively proven. But you can just as easily establish the relativity of the notion of sin, as I have done here above. Alcohol is a no-no for Orthodox Muslims, it’s consumption a full sin, MERELY because it’s been “blacklisted” by Muhammad, mind you. Do you call that an instance of “objective reasoning”? (Well, I really pity you if you do. So, for the time being I’ll surmise you don’t).
So, in the same vein, I consider the designation of homosexuality as sinful, totally subjective. A man calling himself Paul, the apostle, two thousand years ago, believing to have been directly inspired by Jesus or God or whomever, tried to convince his fellow-believers of the veracity of his writings. But how are we to establish his trustworthiness objectively? He might have been totally delusional for all we know and committed his ideas to paper not long after the occurrence of an epileptic fit. No Marilyn you’ll have to come up with something much and much stronger to convince me that what’s been included in your bible originates with the alleged creator of the Universe. For the time being most of its contents amounts to nothing more than pure hogwash, as far as I’m concerned.
Well Carrie, I’m just plain tired and will not comment further on such TOTAL MORONIC STUPIDITY as you’ve been writing up here. Have nice night.
“Sin relativism”, is just another way of describing existentialism. This philosophy cloaks any objective truth (surprisingly what you are demanding).You subscribe to…Truth that is truth to you.
The Bible is constant, unchanging. Therefore true objectivity is grounded in the Word. Truth is truth for everyone, just not a select few. If you live in a sea of subjectivity and relativism of course your world is chaotic and indecipherable. By claiming that all truth is relative and suggesting that my accusation to sin is relative you violate your own premise.
That explains my “What????”
Oh gracious goodness, there we go once again. Where did you encounter my assertion that, as you say, all truth is relative? I’ll put it down here for the third time, it’s not TRUTH AS SUCH I’ve been talking about, but about YOUR FAVORITE CONCEPT OF SIN, capice??? The idea of sin has nothing to do with truth, as far as I’m concerned. Sin is an archaic and, as far as I can see, totally worn, moralistic concept, tied to a decidedly narrow-minded type of theism. You have your “tried and trusted” vision on the significance of scriptural doctrine, so, of course, sin should be a critical phenomenon for you. Not for me, not the least, as you may have understood by now. I am (or at least try to be) a fully law-abiding citizen, but that’s it, really. You’re right: I’m thoroughly hooked on philosophy (certainly of the neo-existential type), so sin is most certainly not an idea that fits within my type of outlook on life. Oh, there even seems to exist some sort of “existential theology”, with the late, eminent professor Paul Tillich as one of it most gifted proponents. I enjoyed reading his biography immensely. But, by the way, you won’t find anything about the notion of sin discussed within his publications. Otherwise his work would most assuredly not have appealed to me at all. And I’m quite sure he would have been fully tolerant and accepting of my gay lifestyle. So, it’s quite clear now where we both stand, isn’t it?
You’ve got it wrong. I am not advocating that my opinions determine any sin parameters. Only that the written Bible gives us (all mankind) all truth and revelations about life You are not the know-all, end-all. And when you realize that subjective reasoning is your worst enemy you”ll be much better off.
Interesting that you think sin is irrelevant, no cause and effect? You must live in Utopia. Why do you bother to be a law-abiding citizen if moralistic behaviour is worn out and archaic according to you?
I find your arguments dizzyingly circular and self-authenticating. What compels you to abide by the law, by what mandate, authority or self-gratifying law do you subscribe? You must divide your choices by right and wrong in order to abide by the law. A fluid conscious? Not a stellar attribute.
And like those posters before me—no matter how you slice it, homosexuality is wrong when held before the standard of God’s law.
I choose to be “law-abiding” for purely pragmatic reasons, as they say. I’d rather never pay income taxes, to be honest, but I know that trying to dodge my tax obligations will most certainly get me into big trouble. But the point of taking the bible’s contents seriously because not doing so might be detrimental to my personal interests I consider ludicrous and infantile to say the least. As I’ve said earlier the bible is really replete with totally incorrect assertions, or to be even more precise outright lies and ridiculous inconsistencies. About a month ago I already posted four instances of such weird information included in your scriptures and I could provide many more. Now ok, just for the sake of fortifying my argumentation a bit I’ll grant you one more example, a really hilarious one, if I may say so.
It’s the story of Jesus organizing a trip up a certain mountain to pray together with Peter, John and James, apparently his favorite disciples. (You’ll find that “delightful” story in e.g. Matthew 17:1-13 and Luke: 9:28-36). Now, as you undoubtedly know – rather to the disciples’ surprise – the long-dead Moses as well as Elias appeared before their very eyes, but only AFTER they had awakened from a (deep?) sleep, according to Luke. But there are two problematic issues here. 1) why would the disciples have to awaken from a sleep in order to encounter those two Old Testament celebrities and 2) how could Peter, (spontaneously) proposing to build three tabernacles (one for each of the three holy men), immediately after he woke up know that those two oldies were Moses and Elias respectively? Well, my dear, you won’t find an answer to that urgent question in yer bible, I’m afraid. But I do think the answer is quite simple: the disciples were cunningly PUT TO SLEEP, were expertly HYPNOTIZED, in other words, if, of course, this whole event took place at all and wasn’t made up by – for instance – Mark, the oldest of the Evangelists, to help legitimize Jesus’ “holy” mission. Oh, and, as you probably know, during hypnosis the “patient’s” level of suggestibility may, and more often than not, does increase enormously. So, whichever way you turn the story, upside down or from left to right, it’s plain, old DECEPTION from A to Z. So what I think is the case here, is that Mark or someone way before him heard a story about a highly charismatic Preacher (there were scores of them a couple of millennia ago in the Middle East) who allegedly blessed his pupils with an experience such as described above. Yeah, Marilyn, it’s a most delightful bedtime fairy tale, but please don’t insult my intelligence and keep trying to convince me that stories as told by your gospel guys are literally true in any way. It’s all bullocks, balls, Scheherazade and her Arabian nights.
But ok, it’s so clear that whatever evidence of the bible’s totally mythical character comes your way, you’ll just stick to your precious opinions and continue to be blind to any counterarguments. Seems a total waste of time to keep arguing back and forth. Apparently you just HAVE TO HANG ON to what you believe to be true, I assume it keeps all fatal despair in (your) life neatly at bay. It didn’t the least surprise me that you came up with the idea, yesterday, that radical relativism justifies suicide (just jump off a cliff then, as you said). But I choose to be realistic and do not want to waste my short stay on this planet by burying my head in a veritable heap of completely mythical assertions and deceitful and wishful thinking. I’m a child of the 20th and 21st centuries, not of the dark Middle Ages, I can and want to think for myself, formulate my own conclusions. That’s why the bible has no special significance for me whatsoever!
Frederick H,
Since August 9,2009, You have used this Post to tell as many as you can that you live in sin against GOD and because your conscience bears witness to you that you are a sinner, you think your mockery against God and God’s Word can disannul God’s Truth, but it does not work. You still are accountable to GOD.
Frederick, you state above, “About a month ago I already posted four instances of such weird information included in your scriptures and I could provide many more” BUT, you fail to state that I answered your “four fine examples” that had NO FACTS or FORCE in them. You had NO ANSWER except your usual “I said so therefore it is fact”. If you want to ‘prove’ something, write some facts in these comments to ‘prove’ to me that ‘PAIN’ exist. You do not believe in evidence, so with your kind of logic, show me that ‘PAIN’ is real.
Frederick H says on March 31, 2010 at 3:09 pm
“But, for instance, child rape (or rape in general, period) and providing food and shelter for your children could be safely considered Universally ethic and mandatory on account of their functionality regarding the preservation of life (child care) and the integrity of the human body. So, the latter has totally and really absolutely nothing to do with religiosity, God’s laws, Sin or whatever dogmatic “nonsense”. It’s just plain, sane commonsense; logic even a four year old child born somewhere in the Himalaya mountains can readily understand, without ever having heard anything about Jesus, the Buddha or Lord Krishna.” Frederick, you are saying here that by nature man knows right from wrong. Frederick, that is true and it is one of the evidences that prove God and His Word because an opinion or sense of Deity, was “implanted” in the minds
of all men when first created; since he is said to be made in the image, and after the
likeness of God; for the image of God surely could not be impressed upon him, without having the knowledge of him implanted in him; and though man by sinning has greatly come short of this image and glory of God, yet this light of nature is not wholly obscured, nor the law of nature entirely obliterated in him; there are some remains of it as shown when the inspired apostle assures us, that even the Gentiles, destitute of the law of Moses, have “the work of the law written in their hearts”, Romans 2:15 which, as it regards duty to God, as well as man, necessarily supposes the knowledge of him; as well as of the difference between good and evil, as founded upon his nature and will: and though this light of nature is not sufficient to lead men, in their present state, to a true spiritual and saving knowledge of God; yet it furnishes them with such a sense of him, as puts them upon seeking him; “if haply they may feel and grope after him, and find him”, Acts 17:27. These notices of a divine Being do not flow from the previous instructions of parents and others; but from a natural instinct. That there is a Deity nature itself has impressed on the minds of all men; for what nation, or sort of men that has not a certain anticipation of it without being taught it?
Frederick, YOU STILL have not proved the BIBLE is full of “myths, lies, dreamed up nonsense, contradictions and tyrannical dictates. ALL you have proved is your hatred toward GOD and a shameful, unmanly, effeminate and a lower life style than fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Frederick, You say, ” just for the sake of fortifying my argumentation”: You do not have an argument, not one fact, period.
Frederick, It is still TRUE, no matter what you ‘think’ or ‘say’: “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation”. If YOU are so smart, why have YOU not determined a way that men do not die, if GOD does not exist?
The world has lost it’s brains and morality.
The anus was created by God or Nature (ur choice) to excrete waste. Nothing was meant to be inserted into it except for medical purposes. PERIOD end of story. Nothing can spin it. Sure hetros engage in anal sex, because it’s tabu and people love to do what’s wrong just for the act of daring.
The vagina, likewise, was meant to have only a real penis inserted into it, not a replica. End of story again.
Why do queer women dress like men and strap on dildos – because they know that women should be with men. PERIOD, end of another story.
p.s. Cheney was never in favor of Gay marriage until his daughter turned queer. Queer by the way means – odd, different, deviating from the norm (therefore a deviant.)
Thank you Yandle for adding (so eloquently) in this discussion very powerful arguments in defense of our God.
I wish you a wonderful Easter season. May the Lord bless you.
Marilyn.
Yandle dear, you did not address my critique AT ALL. You didn’t even begin to so. You just rambled on about your trust in your lord and merely accused me of having the nerve to expose the lies and deceptions contained within your “precious” scriptures. Particularly the last story I analyzed about Jesus’ funny trip into the mountains with his disciples convinced me that the bible is not much more than a bundle of nice Middle Eastern mystery stories. Reread my comment and be nicely amused. By the way, come to think of it, that very story also reminds of the writings of Carlos Castaneda who found his teacher Con Juan, a magician or shaman in the middle of nowhere in Mexico. And guess what, they had their mountain trips together as well taking fancy drugs such as Mescal to get into that special mystical mood where you can easily come into contact with saints and gods and aliens. In other words, beings from quite other dimensions than ours. So, Yandle and Marilyn, my dears you don’t even need to die first to meet your Jesus, just go find yourself a cut of very special bong or some peyote and Jesus will be there for you for as long as your trip lasts. Happy tripping……
Frederick H,
Get up off your knees and stand on your feet and talk like a man. You write like a spoiled, whining child, which is an insult to children. Your four questions had no substance. My answers were correct; YOU were and are wrong. All you could do is argue with the Greek language; go right ahead. I have no time for your foolish and unlearned questions that only come from your depraved imagination. If you think you have all the answers then answer my questions above.
Frederick, as I said about a month ago, you must do better than your rambling, your if if, a friend of mine…alerted me, to discredit God’s Word. You have stated absolutely nothing as usual.
Frederick, you are lost and undone, you are not playing games with me nor others on this post, YOU are tempting GOD. You are dealing with the ‘danger of eternal damnation’ (Mark 3:29). Scoff if you will, but you do not have the power of one breath. You may think you are being cute but you are only showing the ‘ignorance of foolish men’ (1 Peter 2:15) Every time you hear or read a Bible verse and reject Jesus Christ, you are under greater damnation whether you believe it or not. God have mercy on your soul.
The burden of proof is on you Frederick.
Historical Jesus has already been proven, archaeological findings back the biblical text, numerous prophecies fulfilled. Scientist are stumped at the magnitude and expanding universe.
It is very interesting (and sad) that you would obey the law of man to save you physical being. But disobey the God of this Universe to save your soul.
All the distasteful and foul language that you think has an impact does nothing to sway true believers. You are thrashing at thin air and only multiplies your ignorance about Christianity.
Instead of throwing everything into the mix of your convoluted bag of Christian-bashing. Spend some time really searching the God of the Bible. Your very soul depends on it. Remember, today is the day that Christians recognize as the day Christ died for you.
But my dears, you still HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THE CRITIAL POINTS I MADE. In particular the last argument about that fancy mountain trip. I’m still waiting for your clear, rational counter argument. All I read is this endless ranting about retaliation and damnation and what not. That’s the classical way you conservative Christians (and Muslims alike btw) try to stab and silence Non-Believers. But we live in a fully enlightened, rational age. We Agnostics and Atheists don’t buy that crap anymore. Your type of reasoning has been debunked ages ago already. Ever since someone of the stature of the philosopher David Hume in the 18th century attacked and trampled down the usual argumentation meant to prove God’s existence. Charles Darwin and Sigmund Freud did the rest.
BTW Historical Jesus has not the least been proven. All so-clled proof is purely circumstantial and very, very scanty. There’s no reliable, INDEPENDENT source of information corrobaring the New Testament story of Jesus whatsoever. It’s your wishful thinking and your stubborn superstition that’s keeping the whole block of deceptive tall tales neatly alive.
There’s absolutely no soul to be saved. IF there exists something akin to a soul or a spirit it’ll follow it’s own path through eternity. No God or Jesus or Krishna or whomever has any business interfering re its development. So stop blathering about eternal blessing or damnation. It doesn’t the least affect us anymore.
I do not understand Where does a term “gay marriage” come from. There is no such a thing in a human nature.A marrige is a social org-n for a purpose of a procreation of a human species. There is no any procreation is possible in a gay sex. No human law or even GOD himself can not change that( yes, GOD’s power on Earth has limits)In a reality, any sex, but between a man and a woman, is purely recreational without any natural outcome(like children). A law,that will give a marriage certificate to a woman and a dog will not result in a creation of a hybrid child. It will be a worthless paper, a joke. But by only its existance it will nuliffy any real marriage. Any child can have only one father and one mother(even so a poligamy is a type of a marriage). The only right given to us by nature is a right to live through a procreation, and a purpose of society to create a rules so people can fulfil that nature-given right.
Frederick, I don’t see the point of arguing with you about the passage in the Bible about Christ’s Transfiguration when you are having trouble even knowing the people it involved… Elijah not Elias.
It is really clear to me that you have a very thin understanding of scripture at best and your attempt at dismantling it embarrassingly fail.
So my suggestions before you chime in, please study the Bible under the teaching of a Biblical expositor.
You’ll have to approach your pro-homosexual, atheistic/agnostic viewpoint from another angle. Just blasting one point of view doesn’t elevate your hypothesis.
Just to make things less chaotic for you, leave out all the material from Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism etc.
I’m being soberly serious here, not trying to act superior but honestly pull you from the quagmire you are in.
20th century archaeologist, some who started as agnostic, now believing in the authenticity of the Bible, state that there is no rational way to dismiss the evidence found that correlates perfectly with Bible passages. And in fact, no archaeological find has refuted anything in the Bible.
There is so much information that corroborates the Bible. I believe you are dead-set against finding it. Let me suggest if you were to apply the same amount of arbitrary rejection of other historical persons like Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great, you would have to reject their historicity as myth also.
Marilyn, Your are absolutely correct “There is so much information that corroborates the Bible”. We have so great a witness to our resurrected Lord in the writings from that time in history. As we read “To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” and Him being seen of so great a multitude to testify of these things we can be assured. This was not done in some hidden dark corner because we read those ‘which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar’ and proclaimed ‘These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also’, so this was not done in secret. What other person in all history do we have thousands and thousands of volumes that testify to them as we have that witness to our Lord? We can say with David, “The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is SURE, making wise the simple” (Ps 19:7) and rejoice with Peter, “Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we BELIEVE and are SURE that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God”.( John 6:68-69) God’s blessings be with you in Christ
Frederick H,
Your logic is like that in the children story about dogs that says: “Which dog has the most legs; a dog or no dog; no dog HAS eight legs, a dog has only four legs, so ‘No Dog’ HAS the most legs”. You ask only foolish questions and do not answer any questions. When someone presents a question to you, your respond is always something like this answer you gave April 1, 2010 at 10:01 am, “Well Carrie, I’m just plain tired and will not comment further on such TOTAL MORONIC STUPIDITY as you’ve been writing up here. Have nice night”; as if all your questions (that mostly you get from a book someone else wrote) were not in the same category.
Frederick, when you only have ‘foolish and unlearned questions’, GOD instructs me in His Word saying: “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit”. Proverbs 26:4-5
Oh my dear, dear, dears, I’m enjoying this immensely. Thanks for the correction Mari, oh sorry Marilyn, you’re right it should have been Elijah, not Elias or Elisa or some such thing. But, anyway, does it really matter? I don’t think so. Your desperate ranting has absolutely nothing to do with the ESSENCE of my argument. But as ever, when fundamentalist Christians (or Muslims for that matter) try to ram their convoluted opinions down your throat they’ll mostly refer to unverifiable authority, such as scripture itself or so-called scriptural scholars. You’ll have to come up with something much more intelligent and convincing Marilyn than, I quote, “the evidence found that correlates perfectly with Bible passages”. Which evidence then? And to which biblical passages are you referring here, in fact? Just very curious. I can’t wait to hear about those glorious passages…….
Oh yes, and once again about that hilarious mountain “transfiguration” as you call it. Transfiguration? Ha, into what then, precisely? I’m really not buying that completely ridiculous nonsense. No, no my dear, as far as I can see it’s just plain old DECEPTION, a very obviously induced “altered state of consciousness”, either through hypnotic or drug-related means. Why would Peter HAVE to be put to sleep, awaken and only then experience the encounter with those two Old Testament “ghosts”? To me this is just another instance of the Church’s machinations, merely to (falsely) “prove” the alleged Messianistic character of Jesus’ “mission”. Oh, btw did you know that mountainous regions do facilitate the occurrence of altered states of consciousness on account of the relatively low concentration of oxygen present? Presumably, this may significantly affect regular brain functioning. No wonder Muhammad received his visions, i.e. met up with the Angel Gabriel near the top of a mountain outside Mecca, as the story goes at least. Fasting was another means to reach an altered state, of course (I know that from my own experience), which Muhammad and many other “prophets” utilized (Jesus during his trip in the desert and probably in the mountains just as well). To me the (deliberately induced) altered state hypothesis counts as the most plausible one for the story of Jesus’ so-called transfiguration and the disciples’ “hallucinations”.
To you YANDLE I’d say, if you want to know about “MORONIC STUPIDITY” just allow yourself a long and hard look in your bathroom mirror. And consider your endless and headless biblical quotations, throwing nothing but pure mystical garbage into people’s faces? You can keep your 1Nonesense 3:12-20 to yourself. Nobody’s terribly impressed, I can tell you. I don’t even read those passages closely: too bloody boring.
Finally I have a very fine recommendation for our friend Carrie. I think she’d very much enjoy a journey back to her kitchen and her pots and pans and brooms as well as her nursery room, where she really belongs. And she’d do tons of good by staying there. Likewise, the gays’ll highly appreciate a trip back to the far end of their 1950s closets. Don’t you think?
Congratulations to the happy couple in white!! This is against the Bible and against God and God will judge them and we don’t have to. I don’t like this sort of a lifestyle but the way they live at home is their own business just leave me the heck alone. I don’t think they should be allowed to be married but if they want to they are allowed to in some states, altho I think God will be punishing those states.
Frederick, details do matter, just as you so carelessly dismiss your misspelling of Elijah, so it was found that the Librarian of Alexandria, Ptolemy and Herodotus also misspelled ancient names almost beyond recognition when the respective artifact or monuments were used against them.
In stark contrast, Dr. R.D. Wilson a well-respected archaeologist who said, “that the Hebrew writers should have transliterated the names with such accuracy and conformity to philological principles is a wonderful proof of their thorough care and scholarship and of their access to the original sources. That the names should have been transmitted to us through so many copyings and so many centuries in so complete a state of preservation is a phenomenon unequaled in the history of literature.” Please note that Dr. Wilson was fluent in 45 ancient languages and dialects including Hebrew, Aramaic, Sumerian/Babylonian dialects, Phoenician, Assyrian, Ethiopian and the various Egyptian and Persian dialects, etc. He also had memorized the entire Old Testament in Hebrew and could recite it without missing even a syllable.
Dr. Wilson also stated that the biblical chronological order of the Kings was completely accurate as opposed to the secular accounts.
Archaeologist Nelson Glueck said, ” It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a single biblical reference. Scores of archaeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact historical statement in the Bible.”
Sir William Ramsay another well-respected archaeologist set out to refute the authenticity of the Book of Luke and Acts. But after his digs came up without error he converted to Christianity. Luke accurately named 32 countries, 54 cities and 9 islands. Many skeptics refused to believe that the Governors Luke mentioned never existed but instead were confirmed by the evidence excavated.
Millar Burrows, a Yale archaeologist, has said, “that the excavation of Palestine unquestionably strengthens confidence in the reliability of the scriptural record.
Nations, important people, customary practices, etc have all been verified by archaeological evidence.
And yes, Frederick, this is just a fraction of the information.
There are endless volumes of irrefutable evidence that the Bible is totally accurate. And considering the numerous authors that transcribed the inspired Word of God over several centuries, yes it tends to baffle many. But cements the fact that humanly, the consistent theme throughout the Bible could not have randomly occurred.
So authenticity proved. Do your own research Frederick…maybe you’re the type that needs to keep your hand in the fire until it sizzles and falls off before you conclude that fire destroys.
Biblically that means your heart is hardened. But the message of the Bible is God can change your heart. God can make you anew.
Maybe this Easter Season will be the beginning of a new life in Christ for you.
ANY GOP PERSON WHO FEELS DIVIDED BECAUSE OF THE GAY MARRIAGE ISSUE OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF HIMSELF/HERSELF,
THERE OUGHT TO BE NOT A CHOICE, NOR HESITATION BUT CONDEMNATION OF THIS BEHAVIOR,
CIVIL UNIONS ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH,
GAY MARRIAGE WILL BECOME A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO SAY THE LEAST !!
LET BARNEY FRANKS (FAGS) ESTABLISH HIS OWN CHURCH, SO THAT THESE WEIRDOS WILL MARRY AT HIS SINFUL CHURCH AND BE HAPPY EVER AFTER SMILE….
Marilyn, the very, very, very clear and simple heart of the matter is that archeological corroboration of a certain number of historical facts mentioned in your bible is not nearly enough to validate its spiritual significance. These two aspects of our debate (factual accuracy and spiritual significance of biblical texts) are two totally disparate points of consideration here. Let me illustrate my argument with a couple of examples, once again. The first one regards the story of Sodom & Gomorrah, a story of central interest to the discussion we’re having here. So, all the excavations to date point to the fact that those two cities (and three more in the vicinity, by the way) were destroyed by way of natural, volcanic like eruptions. (See, for instance the following quote to be found at Lexilines educational website http://www.lexiline.com/lexiline/lexi58.htm):
The date for the catastrophe of Sodom & Gomorrah
is very likely the explosion of the volcano Santorini on Thera
dated ca. 1628 BC by modern research. This was accompanied
by earthquakes, tectonic movements and incendiary gases
which derived from them,
as apparently reported quite accurately by Isaiah
But the point is that how accurately Isaiah may have reported the material events at the five cities location, the crucial question about THE REAL BASIC CAUSE (OR REASON) FOR THE CATASTROPHIC OCCURENCES, still remains fully unanswered. We have no OJECTIVE MATERIAL available offering even the slightest evidence for DIVINE INTERVENTION whatsoever. We’re simply considering a completely “natural disaster” here, such as have occurred and continues to occur all over this planet (and probably other ones orbiting other suns, as well). Nothing more or less. The interpretation of the story alluding to grave sins committed by the men of the cities having caused these cities’ total demise constitutes a full “conclusion after the fact”. Particularly laughable I’ve always found that incredibly infantile story about Lot’s wife being transformed into a pillar of salt. Nice story to tell in Kindergartens and let your poor kids tremble to the bone.
Btw, as you may now know, nowhere in the bible is this story being linked to homosexuality per se. No my dear, not at all. I’ve read a highly enlightening article on the matter [online] and was very pleasantly surprised, I can tell you.
And oh, uhm, you’re not attributing the recent earth quakes In Haiti and Chile to the wrath of an angry God, awakening at last from a long, long, long, sabathical sleep, are you? I hope not.
But anyway, to tell the truth, it’s not the easy conclusions fundamentalists draw on account of certain archeological findings that have amazed and irritated me the most during past few decades. No, it’s simply the many, many weird textual inaccuracies that have pushed me farther away from the bible than I could have ever imagined in my glorious younger years. I could give many more examples than I have already done, but I’ve really got too little time at the moment to delve more deeply into the matter. But I’m sure we’ll meet again, one day or night. Bye, bye.
As someone who struggles with homosexuality, I can tell you it is the antithesis of Gods will for mankind. It is wrong on almost every level, which is why it strikes the minds of those who cannot conceive of it as so bizarre and disgusting. It is every bit an abomination as the Bible says. A man or woman practicing homosexuality is choosing Satans path for them, and will miss out on the life that God has for them. Am I a homophobe, or someone who hates homosexuals? Not at all. I feel sorry for them. What God has for them is beyond compare. How deceived they are!
Oh, oh, oh, it makes me so sad Dave, to see how people can be totally deformed, fully mangled psychologically by their upbringing, made into robots by a process of constant brainwashing or rather brain-bashing, you could say. They lead absolutely artificial and well-nigh untreatably neurotic lives, only because they have learned not to think for themselves and not to judge what they read with an open mind and ask themselves, is this really true and why would this be the truth and nothing but the truth? They’ve never learned to think critically to let their intelligence really speak, but merely parrot what has been repeated thousands of times by their parents, manipulative, fundamentalist preachers and certain media who live and thrive by the reinforcement of fear and ignorance. People blather about heaven and hell, but do they really, really know what it all means? A rhetorical question: no, of course they don’t. They believe in the reality of these concepts only because their bible says so. Yes you can train dogs and tigers to sit up and lie down, but apparently you can train human beings just as well to shut off their higher cognitive faculties and merely obey the dictates of perverse fear-mongers: our fundie bible thumpers. No Dave, no need to pity me, I’m honest to myself, I hate hypocrisy and the upholding of false promises (renounce your sexual identity and Jesus will love you no end). It really makes me sick to think how many of my fellow citizens are letting their lives and their personalities be crushed by pure crap, lies and deceit kicked into this world by ruthless religious fanatics. Oh, I’ll stop now before anger gets the best of me, once again.
Interesting that our “dear” Frederick didn’t have time to address real archaeological facts (could it be his dead-end reasoning has his tongue-tied?) Frederick, admit it, you have no intellectual ability to sensibly argue with world renown archaeologist or Biblical scholars, your only forte is lashing out with your tongue.
Only once does God address the atheist/agnostic in scripture… “The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.” All for good reason, it is futile to debate with a fool.
Frederick, you know the truth of the Gospel, I’m sure you’ve heard it many times, but you rabidly refuse to recognize your depravity and make yourself a miniature god, thinking you have all knowledge and power—then save yourself. But if you believe this life is it, then why do you bother to even debate? You are obviously confused and thrashing at anything because of your sinful lust. But if the Christian is right, condemnation and judgment await you. You dance a very fine line.
Sounds like you had a dysfunctional upbringing to say the least, because all the accusations that you throw out here are just reflections of you.
The vile men of Sodom so entrenched in their carnal lust–they nearly broke into Lot’s house to sexually assault the 2 men (angels)that God had sent to warn Lot of the coming destruction. The angels blinded the Sodomite men to deter them, but EVEN THOUGH BLINDED, they still continued to seek out the men to fulfill their uncontrollable, unrestrained lust. The Sodomite men finally fell weary.
Frederick, you will one day become weary of your uncontrollable, unrestrained lust–what then?
Dear Marilyn I think a good reading course will do you tons of good. Please reread my penultimate post. I very, very, very clearly stated that archeological excavations may nicely corroborate the DESCRIPTION of Generally Known historical facts, but that is NOT NEARLY ENOUGH to Proof the bible’s THEOLOGICALLY RELEVANT ASSERTIONS. Well (sigh, sigh) let’s once again take the case of Sodom of Gomorrah. We know for a fact that those cities (and three others with them) were wiped from the earth through a massive (probably series) of VOLCANIC ERUPTION(S). That’s a clear, plain, down to earth, physical FACT. But what is most certainly NOT FACTUAL is the whole INSANE STORY about the angels visiting Lot’s abode and (assuming they were of the male gender) were lusted after by the men of Sodom. Where is your Archeological Proof for this alleged, pseudo-historical Event? Yes, where??? You simply can’t possibly PROVE IT. I’d be very curious to know how archeologists or other hard scientists think they’ll ever solve that problem. Likewise, you can’t reliably ascertain the so-called depravity of (all of or even the majority of) Sodom and Gomorrah’s inhabitants. Is there any, yes any OBJECTIVE AND INDEPENDENT ACADEMIC MATERIAL available corroborating this blunt contention? Come on then, let’s see it!!! Just curious.
Yes Marion, have you ever heard of the other ancient “twin cities”, Pompeii and Herculaneum? Do you know what happened to them? No? Well, about exactly the same thing that occurred within the “Plain Cities’ Area”: total demise by way of a disastrous volcanic eruption. God’s wrath just as well? How will we find out? And, once again, what about Haiti and Chile? Did God, once more, have nothing else to do than severely punish the poor sods in those two countries? Oh yes, and tell me about the “TWIN TOWERS” in New York on 9-11-2001: apparently God had been in a very bad mood for a while and decided to teach those totally depraved New Yorkers (with all their sex theatres and fancy decadent department stores) a fine lesson just as well……. And I could go on and on and on and on. Come to think of it, seems as if that’s the only thing God is very well capable of: punishing mankind (or at least the unlucky part of us) by way of an horrendous natural disaster here and there from time to time….. Yes Marion that tribal god of your precious bible really is a hell of a joker, ain’t he?
By the way, I’ve just ordered a most interesting book written by the eminent professor and Bible Critic Bart Ehrman by the title of, God’s Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question — Why We Suffer. It’s published by Harper and Collins and you can easily get it through Amazon.com or Barnes and Noble. And Ehrman’s most recent book is Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don’t Know About Them).
Oh Marion, I’m going to enjoy those two books, I’m sure and I think you will do the same. Read ‘em.
And finally what do YOU know about any uncontrollable, unrestrained lust, as you so “aptly” say? You see, that’s what I hate so much about you conservative people: the totally dumb clichés you so often kick around about our sexual lives, of which you don’t even know the first real fact. FYI: I have a very, very, very lovely husband, just as you do and that’s quite enough for me, capice?
Oh, dear Marilyn I’ve another nice one for you. Well, you’ve been praying your head off all your life, then you die and what happens? Nothing, no heaven, no hell, nada, njet, nothing. Then what? Yeah, you tell me……
The better question is, why shouldn’t we suffer? You assume that you are entitled.
Like I said, “the FOOL has said in his heart, there is no God.” Ps:14:1
Well Marilyn, first of all, as far I can remember I didn’t ask or beg to be born, you know. And as I’m not exactly a masochist, I really don’t see why I SHOULD consider suffering quite normal as I SHOULD the fact that I’ve been thrown into existence as Jean-Paul Sartre once so beautifully said. No Marilyn, suffering to me is a REAL ABOMINATION, also considering the fact that not only responsible grown-ups do suffer, but innocent children en animals just as well. Think about it: you say God is a loving, caring entity and still he happily allows infants and vulnerable animals to suffer no end. No Marilyn if you deeply realize the full CYNICISM of “God’s” position, the only thing you can do is explode in full anger. But as I’m not a believer and the probability of becoming one is getting lower by the day, I’m still able to (reaonably) keep my cool. And, come to think of it, what else could that “psalmist” have said? Most certainly not that it doesn’t matter one way or the other, whether you’re a fine and pious believer or not. That would have been like peeing into your wine in full few of your customers and trying to sell your stuff happily ever after!!! No Marilyn I’ve really enjoyed our debate to date (rhymes nicely, doesn’t it?), but I’m really through with (particularly orthodox) religion. It’s replete with totally insane paradoxes and I’ve got just enough self-respect left to keep this whole business of religion and its apologists far from my doorstep.
Well, now maybe you are beginning to really see your plight.
“Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because all sinned.” Romans 5:12
But God graciously has provided a perfect sacrifice to atone for our inherent sin.
“Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the FREE GIFT CAME to all (through Faith in Jesus Christ) men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.” Romans 5:18,19.
To help you see the connection between the spiritual significance and factual accuracy as you mentioned before. If we established the biblical accuracy through archaeology and then take what these disciples, patriarchs and kings stated about the Messiah and believed themselves and their willingness to die for their beliefs paints a very strong picture. A clear-cut link to the spiritual significance.
We haven’t even touched on the subject of biblical prophecy and the over 300 prophecies just about Jesus the Messiah that were fulfilled. Just take less than 2 dozen of them and the odds are astronomical (1 chance in a trillion).
Jesus said, “Blessed are those who have seen and believe but even more blessed are those who believe and have not seen.”
Good bye Marilyn, have fun.
Hopefully, the hateful rebuttals coming from you will stop. You see, I will always defend my Christian faith. And like I said before… I continue to pray for you.
And I will most certainly uphold my contempt for the false promises and deception running through the greater part of your scriptures. Rest assured. But not here anymore, as far as I can see now. I’m finished here. Bon soir.
So here is the ironic part… Most of you seem to be either atheist or christians arguing over the religious principle of homosexuality. I was raised druid which is a pagan faith, I was taught that there is a natural order to things, including the fact that same sex relations is an unnatural act. I have known many homosexuals and maybe I just have been unlucky but morals with these people that I knew did not exist. I personally don’t give a f who or what someone is having sex with, unless it is a child then that is different. BUT don’t shove your beliefs, personal sexual choices or anything else down my throat. Keep your beliefs off the tv and out of the courts. The reason why there is such a controversy over gays is because theycan’t shut up and think everyone else owes them an apology or has to bow down and accept what they are. BS. I don’t want to hear about what great things gays have done or how they don’t beat their children. They have sex with the same gender. It’s not natural, it’s sick, and twisted and these are MY PERSONAL beliefs and you have a right to yours. However, If that is their choice let it be but they need to shut up. I think gays should be allowed to marry, maybe they would be loyal to the partners they marry instead of going through partners like they were used napkins. One women I knew went through 15 partners in a year.Wait, cus I know this is coming as well. Heterosexuals can be equally as loose, and heterosexuals commit rape etc. etc, and the ones that do it are equally as messed up in the head as someone who is gay, and this whole you can’t pick who you love is one giant cop out. we are talking about deviant sexual drives. As I said let them get married. Let them have to obey the same legalities as everyone else. Personally having to ask the government for a license to marry someone is idiotic as well. Just one more way the government controls an individuals rights. Well, I’m sure this response will get hate from both sides, and you will tell me how bigoted and stupid I am, and quote scripture to save my poor heathen soul, but in the end the bottom line is don’t ask don’t tell, and get over yourself..
Another Consideration, based on current event of a Single Woman in the USA who adopted a little boy from Russia. She decided he wasn’t what she expected, found someone on the internet who she paid apx $200 to pick him up at the airport in Russia, and airmailed the child, alone, to be picked up by someone he didn’t know. The news reports have not yet told who was picking him up, and where the receiver was to take the child.
This situation should be convincing TO ALL, and acted upon by all American mothers at least, to demand investigation and new laws protecting all children:
1. What agency and what person tested and approved this single woman to take an orphan from Russia to the USA as her adopted child?
2. Obviously this woman is not emotionally or mentally responsible to adopt an orphan. She must not be allowed to skip away without being examined and appropriately assisted in recovery if possible and if not found to have normal capacity, she should be institutionalized for ongoing help.
3. No sane American does this to a child and does not expect personal repercussions.
4. Is she a lesbian who chose not to marry and wanted a child in her life? If she is a lesbian, why did she choose to adopt a boy?
5. If she is a lesbian who hates men, is the adoption the lesbian’s acting out a HATE CRIME against the boy?
6. Russia and other countries need to protect their orphans from the grasp of Americans. Americans have no justification to take children from their homelands when American children are available and longing to be adopted and be in a family. Our Laws prevent foreigners from adopting our American orphans and whisking them away to other lands. Americans who adopt foreign children are by nature, self-absorbed, selfish and unloving people. No two ways about it. Don’t tell me how much love they have for kids they feel sorry for in other countries and feel “moved” to “save” them. Nah, the kid is a unique object for them, not a person with heritage and love for their own culture.
7. USA laws MUST MUST MUST be changed to prevent adoption of foreign orphans by Americans. The people who illegally tried to swoop children from Haiti are an obvious example of Americans with wierd agendas involving children. Ain’t love, baby. Our laws MUST MUST be changed to prevent SINGLE MEN OR WOMEN from adopting ANY child. ADOPTION ONLY BY MARRIED MAN AND WOMAN. Only exception is when children are made orphans by death or incapacity of parents, that would permit relatives or family friends to adopt those children AFTER intense mental and other appropriate testing to ensure the safety and well-being of the children. Wealth/Money has nothing to do with it in those cases. Safety and family love has everything to do with it.
Please contact the news programs, your representatives, your govt depts of child welfare, the US dept charged with regulating adoption of children. PROTECT OUR CHILDREN, AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS LITTLE ABUSED 7 YEAR OLD BOY. THIS you CAN do something about that is important. PLEASE help. Get that woman off the streets or at LEAST punished for child abandonment and abuse, and PREVENTED from ever adopting ANY child ANYWHERE. Where are our BRAINS and our HEARTS and our WILLS? Let’s show the world we WILL do something right to protect CHILDREN.
Your SOUL is sexless. The only reason for a male or female body while on this earth is to procreate. Therefore, to you who are sexually attracted to your own sex, there is obviously a “short circuit” going on. Gays know that their “feelings and urges” go against the natural order of earthly life, yet, instead of trying to find a cause and cure, they’re allowing SATAN to lead them down the wrong road.
Pedophiles are sexually attracted to children. They may not be able to control their “feelings” anymore than a homosexual can, but they know that to act on those feelings is WRONG. How long will it be before Pedophiles are allowed to “marry” children?
As for gays saying that we are “homophobic”, I say Radical Gays are “HETEROPHOBIC”.
I would rather live my life believing in God and die to find out it isn’t true, than to live my life not believing and die to find out that it is all true!
That’s plain old opportunism, CARRIE, hypocrisy in other words. In my book faith is based on trust and love for what (or whom) you (want to) believe (in), not fear or pure calculation. The kind of reasoning you’re presenting here just proves to me that you’re not more than an underdeveloped, infantile and superstitious “barbarian”, carrying a mere and measly coating of “pseudo-civilization”. You haven’t got even the slightest hunch of the real, scientifically investigated course of sexual development , but you keep blathering your nonsense about gays and pedophiles and what not. Go catch up on your reading (if you’ve had the proper amount of education to do so, which to me seems highly unlikely)!!!
The TRUTH hurts, doesn’t it? End of discussion.
Yes, and I guess particularly the truth about the ILLUSORY NATURE of your so-called religion, your Christianity full of lies, obvious deception and false, infantile promises. Think about it, billions of folk around the globe do still consider their brand of Faith (Islam, Hinduism, Druidry, Judaism, etc, etc, etc,) the only one that really matters. Alas, we’ve got no objective criterion whatsoever to decide which one of them constitutes “the truth” or not at all. (Oh, and I’m not even mentioning the atheists and agnostics some of whom have written very intelligently conceived books and articles exposing the full baloney contained within the scriptures central to that whole heap of religions). So, keep wasting your life and your time with all the crap you want to believe in. It’s your loss, not mine, after all.
Religion can be defined as “mans way to God” or his perceived conception of God, which is why there are so many different religions out there to choose from. There is however only one true religion which is “God’s way” to mankind, one way, one truth, one life, through Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son.
Marriage is God’s design for procreation, between one man and one woman for life, until death do they part. Two men or two women cannot procreate (have children). Who then has the right to recreate God’s design for marriage?
God is love and love is God which has nothing whatsoever to do with sex or feelings. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life, for God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.” If one doesn’t have God’s love, then one can only experience their perceived conception of love which is nothing more than a “warm fuzzy” feeling. Once the feeling is gone, the love is gone and we move on from one sexual partner to another, feeling lost, lonely and confused. Man’s ways are self-destructive and sexual sin is the only sin that defiles the body whether heterosexual or homosexual! Homosexual behavior is an abomination to God because it defiles His design for procreation. The US and Canada may well be the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. The reason there is no archaeological evidence for these two cities is because when God damn’s something, it is totally wiped out of existence, so please be mindful of this when you “god damn” somebody or something. The bottom line is: if you choose to keep God out of this life, you choose to keep Him out for all eternity. Choose Him now through Jesus Christ and spend eternity with Him or continue to reject Him and spend eternity without Him in a place known as Hell.
“Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord” “Be not amazed when I tell you, all shall rise from the grave; some to eternal life while others to eternal damnation.” “He that believeth in the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him”
Nobody can be argued into the Kingdom, for God granted us all the freedom to choose. “Choose you this day whom you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”
Max-You It seems that all your “rationales”, “reasons” and “authority” are based on what some human wrote down and you have read. In most cases, we don’t even know who wrote any of that stuff down. In addition, it seems that those who copied this stuff that some unknown person wrote, made mistakes and then had the audacity to add, delete and pass it off as the original.
What if our Constitution had been handled like that? I think you’d be pretty outspoken in your objections.
I’m just searching and have no intent to criticize. I just want to find something real on which I can rely on. I’ll keep reading.
antonio
according to your religion, but were not all you why should we have to prescibe to your beliefs? procreation is overated i think ther are enough people now
PTL!
Ah, Marilyn the debate addict’s back in town. Welcome home, my dear. So, PTL= P(ray T(o) L(ao-tze, if you must, that is. It doesn’t matter one way or another if you praise Jesus, the Buddha, or Julius Ceasar, end of story. Oh, did you know that researchers have reported stories from patients with Near Death Experiences, indicating that Buddhists promptly had an encounter with “Lord Sakyamuni”, Christians saw Lord Jesus, Hindus duly stumbled upon Lord Krishna, etc, etc. So, the bottom-line is, whomever you want or expect to wait for you up there will punctually show up and give you a big, tight hug. Well, provided Near Death Encounters reliably mirror Real Death Experiences. As an Agnostic I’m still doubting the whole show, but don’t worry, there still is SOME HOPE for you up there, postmortem…….
You know this is what I admire sooo much about Taoists and Zen-buddhists: the TOTAL ABSENCE of even the slightest need to preach and to proselytize. No Saviors, no (eternal damnation) threats, no endless blah-blah about heaven, hell, purgatories, etc. No, everyone will follow their own path through eternity with or without senseless “prescriptions” from third parties, period.
I do not understand a person of one sex having a sexual desire for someone of the sme sex; but I don’t understand many things in lfe, so I do not condemn it. What I do not understand is Omama’s Federal Decree that same sex partners have the same rights as married couples. Where does the legally stand in the face of opposite sex couples sex partners that live together, never get married (for various reasons), but have children, own propety, belong to the same Church, but do not have the same rights. Is this not a double standard?
As much as I am against gay marriage, I think doing it on a State level is not only acceptable, but the right way to approach it (as well as abortion). If the State I’m in passes it and I don’t like it, I can relocate; if a gay person doesn’t like the laws in the State they’re in, they can relocate. This gives everyone choices. Trying to do this federally attempts to put us all on the same page, which with these types of highly-charged issues, is impossible.
To John of Jan 2010. I would be glad to provide you with some documents. In fact, I suggest you start reviewing your history instead of the William Ayres version of revisionist history created over the last 50 years. How about looking at the 13 original state constitutions. You need to understand your time line of events for this to mean anything. These State Constitutions were made within less than 10 years after the Declaration of Independence, but only a few years prior to the Constitutional Convention. All Constitutions contained referenced Christianity as being an important part of their society. But, more specifically 2 were based on the Magna Carta. 2 declared themselves as Christian states requiring living according to Christian standards. The remaining 9 required any state office holder to live upright Christian lifestyles, actively participate in church, and take a mandatory oath of office pledging their commitment and belief in Jesus Christ and the Old and New Testaments of the Bible in order to hold any office representing that state. In other words, these were the people the states sent to represent them at the Constitutional Convention that was held only a few years later.
Or, what about the letter that Benjamin Franklin wrote to the people of Europe encouraging them to come to this new land. One of his points of encouragement was that atheism was virtually non existent here.
How could our government have been formed by a bunch of atheists if 1) they weren’t here and 2) the state constitutions wouldn’t allow themselves to be represented by one?
And what about the Northwest Ordinance adopted by the same congress that created the Bill of Rights and ratified the Constitution. This document was to serve as a road map for territories seeking statehood. One of the requirements was that: “religion (defined in Noah Webster’s first dictionary as being the equivalent of Christianity), morality, and knowledge …. shall forever be encouraged.” In other words, this was a specific responsibility assigned to and expected of the states not the federal government. And their territories would not be accepted as a state into the United States if they did not adhere to it.
When we find out that people like George W. Bush and his VP are in attendance at BOHEMIAN GROVE EVENTS while standing before the statue of MOLECH and the psychotic aspect of DULL CARE as well..you must know that we are living in the last days. “YOU ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE !”
“THE MOUNTAINS HAVE ALREADY STARTED TO RUN”… WAKE UP PEOPLE..LOOK AROUND AND SEE THAT THERE ARE FORCES BEYOND HUMAN COMPREHENSION THAT ARE OCCURRING RIGHT BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES AND YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW IT!
Hitler exterminated his brown shirt (SODOMITE) army when he was finished with them….he gave them all a bullet for their “DEBOTCHED- REPROBATE MINDS”. No ARRIAN RACE material here…NIX them.
What do you think MORIAH CONQUERING WIND is going to do to all these SATAN loving people who promote this “DEBAUCHERY” of the flesh when he is finished with them ? The elite NWO Satanists are preparing deep underground cities as we speak in order to hide from the wrath that is yet to come… and they know it. IE;(THE UNDERGROUND DENVER AIRPORT THAT IS TOP SECRET AND OFF LIMITS TO ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT IT !!) THE “USLESS EATERS” are not invited.
Why was Noah commanded to build that ARK ( which can be partially seen in years of hot summer days at the ceiling of the earth from the air)? Why are there sulfur balls still (to this day) found on the ground, and the nearby hills which are pelted with holes from the same- at the site of Sodom and Gomorrah ? It is because your CREATOR made it clear that he will not tolerate this kind of ABOMINATION at any time in the past or the future. The mountain of Moses in not found in Egypt folks… I have seen it in Saudi Arabia (THE MOUNTAIN OF MOSES),where the Word of God tells us it can be found. The entire mountain is burned black as glass- (NOTHING ON EARTH SHORT OF A NUKE COULD DO THIS) and all the points of interest- (as spoken about in the Bible, IE; The rock that split, the cleft in the rock, the alters, etc.) are also found there as well. If you think for one minute that the people who stood before that mountain wanted anything to do with talking to a mountain of FIRE as that which was before them guess again. You will clearly understand why they told Moses to go and talk to HIM. THE PEOPLE WERE SO AFRAID OF WHAT THEY SAW BEFORE THEM THAT THEY COULD NOT HOLD THEIR BODY FLUIDS AND THEY SHOOK WITH HORROR BEFORE HIM ! The days of Noah and Sodom and Gehamoria took place because of transmutation (by disembodied detached entities) which had taken over the body and souls of those people at that time in an attempt to corrupt the DNA of humans.
The same is in progress today as Christ has told us. The last days will be like those in the days of Noah… Will I find faith when I return ? (The book of Joel- Super Solders with the DNA of animals) Get a copy of the book Apollyon Rising 2012 and find out what is happening in the world and why. It might be a wake up call for all who are (OK like Dick Cheney) with a New Age NWO spirituality and the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT THAT IS ON ITS WAY. No more USA folks.
Born once DIE TWICE, Born twice, Die ONCE. You will all need to choose before “The thief in the night” comes to make up your mind for you…but then it will be too late to change the irreversible error of your reprobate minds. REPENT… Get a copy of God’s best selling book (THE OWNERS MANUAL OF LIFE- THE BIBLE)and read it because there will be a test.
Anathema !
Does anyone remember why sodomy was on the law books to begin with? You can cause serious illness or early death to the other male partner. Hetersexuals should learn about this also. In addition to AIDS, there is a term called “gay bowel syndrome” which the medical field applies to a list of diseases caused by a tear (even microscopic) in that area of the body. It results in poison leaking out to other parts of the body, thus damaging important organs in the body.
Maybe that is why insurance actuaries in the oast have givenn male homosexuals a life expectancy in the mid-40′s.
Why aren’t these problems taught in Health Classes in schools across America? Why don’t parents demand this so that their child can be given all relevant information before making such a decision?
It seems to me that the “loving” thing to do is to tell ALL the TRUTH about this behavior so young males can make an intelligent decision about their futures — kind of like giving the facts to cigarette smokers.
All the debate and discussion will not solve the issue. It has all been foretold and must come to pass. Discussion will maybe prolong the occurance but in the end all things will decay and die. It is inevitable and we may get to see it happen within our life time. Whatever one chooses to believe is entirely their choice, there is a perfect justice so be very careful how and what you choose. Your eyes will only behold this beauty for a short period and will then be closed forever. Make the right choices, don’t listen to your mind, listen to your soul. Don’t believe…..KNOW! There is but one way, inside of you knows the way so pay attention. If you feel it is wrong, it is. Don’t make excuses, don’t turn your back because time is short, life is precious. In the blink of the eye what you see will no longer be seen by you what you feel will no longer be felt by you. Make this time on earth your heaven or make this time your hell. It IS your choice. Look inside…all the answers are there and you already know them.
Immorality like sodomy is not protected by the constitution, nor is it something that deserves equal protection. There is a difference in being a minority for religious or ethnic reasons, and wishing that classification because you are immoral. Because of the serious incurable diseases associated with homosexuals, it should be condemned just like smoking.
See Romans 1:25-32
Incurable diseases you say? Well, let me tell you that your Christian religion itself is an incurable Disease with all the hatred, bigotry and medieval ideas being spread by its adherents. We’ve had more than enough of you during the past 2000 years or so. You’ve preached your superstitious nonsense all over the planet and look what this world has come to: wars instigated by you Christians (in Afghanistan and Irak), famine (through your insatiable greed and exploitation of Third World people’s soil, their precious resources and cheap labor), not to mention the irreparable pollution of our unique planet. You should be horribly ashamed of yourselves, instead of keeping up the mindless shooting at gays who have been and still are contributing enormously to your material prosperity and to this country’s high culture. And what a stupid comparison with smoking, which is nothing more than a habit immorally reinforced by the tobacco industry who’re dumping their hideously addictive garbage into the cigarettes that are still being produced. Talk about incurable diseases: what about Chlamydia and intra-uterine cancer (a basically viral disease) spread through heterosexual intercourse ? Come on, you’re a pathetic lot.
Blah…Blah…Blah…
FYI, its cervical cancer not intra-uterine, Mr. Intellectual.
Fact…Homosexual soldiers cannot donate blood to help a fellow-soldier because of concerns of blood borne diseases specifically associated with homo-lifestyle. That is if they “tell.” Maybe “don’t ask; don’t tell” is in their best interest. Heterosexuals are screwed either way. Somehow I think that is exactly what they want, to screw the heterosexual!
Ah Genius Marilyn’s here again. Well, for your infomation, “the cervix is the part of the UTERUS that protrudes into the cavity of the vagina”. Look it up on your browser and learn a thing or two. Yes, Mari my dearest dear you seem to know it all, but as far as I’m concerned you just babble away a lot of idiotic nonsense and nothing much else. One advice: pray for yourself not for me. You need it very, very much. Just because I think you’re precisely the one in need of a fine, nicely extended screw. From what I hear from you it must have been quite a while since you last got, uh, you know……. Happy sleeping……..
And that remark about the ban on blood donation for openly gay military personnel, neatly proves the INCREDIBLE INTELLIGENCE (…….) of our policy makers. Because, mind you, most, if not all, heterosexual soldiers lead perfectly pious lives: never engage in unprotected “freestyle sex”, never visit a “tart”, never cheat on their official partner, wouldn’t dream of having multiple sex partners, etc, etc. Yeah, tell me about the great and unbelievably shrewd American Defense Administration…..
You miss my point…and just a reminder, I’m the one with the medical degree. Oh smart one! Ha!
Your point, dear? What point? Well look at that, you made a point. Holy houses, now you’ll surely qualify for that much coveted Pullitzer P!!! A medical degree, you say? And you don’t even know that the cervix constitutes a crucial part of the uterus? Shame on you. But I’ll pardon your sin for now. Your chances of having to taste the bitter pains of hell will remain negligibly slim……. Yes dear, I’m on a full Crusade against your religion and I’m quite sure that I and my allies are going to win!!!
And, oh yes, a smart one, eh? You can say that again, Hallelujah Enjoy yer evening.
You make me laugh–because your rebuttals are so full of witless, unintelligible nonsense. Oh and go ahead and rant and rave about all the inconsistencies of homosexual and atheistic life, it doesn’t seem to help your thought process. Quite the contrary, I do know the difference between endometrial cancer and cervical cancer and the causes for each–sorry, its above your head.
But my dear, who said I’ve been talking about endometrial cancer? You’re the one who introduced the term here. And perhaps you don’t know this, but, as far as scientists have been able to discern, cervical cancer is PREDOMINANTLY CAUSED BY Infection with two types of human papillomavirus (HPV), which is transmitted (HETERO)sexually. As far as we know now the onset or the basic cause of endometrial cancer does not the least relate to a viral infection. You keep blathering about your medical degree, but you simply haven’t got a clue about the (nature of the real) issue of interest here.
Oh yes and you mention the so-called inconsistencies of homosexual and atheistic live? Do you even know what this word (inconsistencies) really means? What inconsistencies? You’d better take stock of the incredibly moronic absurdity of the scriptural texts that seem to mean so much to you. The complete nonsense about virginal births, nails through convicts’ hands, outright lies about a resurrection, the exorcism of “demons”, etc, etc, etc, etc. Read a few good books about all these idiocies and be shocked. I’ve already mentioned a few titles in my previous posts, look them up, buy or borrow these books and educate yourself properly. You do live in 2010, don’t you? Well, act accordingly!!!
Dah! Then why did YOU state that chlamydia/intra-uterine cancer was “basically a viral disease?”
Don’t YOU know that chlamydia is a bacterium not a virus?
Don’t YOU know that chlamydia does NOT cause “intra-uterine”/endometrial cancer but is associated with ovarian and cervical cancer.
And actually there are at least 4 strains of HPV that are responsible for that viral infection.
Oh yes, homosexuals can and do get HPV and the lovely penile cancer to go along with it.
Think you’ll have to commit yourself to a good reading course. Nowhere did I state that Chlamydia is a viral disease. Just reread my post above. And did you know that the opposite of intra actually means EXTRA? Jeez, talk about nonsensical rambling!!! I’ll repeat: the cervix still constitutes A PART OF THE UTERUS, as you’ll be able to read in every proper encyclopedia available out there. In other words, the cervix may very well be designated as STRUCTURALLY INTRA-UTERINE. Just as the pituitary gland is located way down at the base of the hypothalamus but effectively still constitutes an intra-cranial organ, part of the brain’s formative substance. Does that settle the score? And, ah, you finally recognize the mutual fate of ALL HUMAN BEINGS engaging in UNPROTECTED “PROMISCUOUS” SEX, whether homo- or heterosexual.
Perhaps the main issue underlying human promiscuity regards the nature of MALE sexual motivation. Apparently the masculine part of our species is very easily (and on average pretty often) aroused. So, in societies posing little restrictions on male sexual initiatives, such as in countries all over Africa, S.E. Asia and the Caribbean, promiscuity can very easily thrive and fuel the incidence of HIV and AIDS. Within the Western homosexual community you’ll find quite a similar “social structure”, so to speak. There is very little control on sexual conduct and sanctions for “promiscuity” are practically non-existent. The bottom-line is that there is a high positive correlation between the availability of partners for “non-marital” sex and the incidence of STD’s. In developing countries this is generally the case (also because of the often very low status of women there) as well as in modern gay communities in Europe and the USA. Just check up on your statistics and you’ll see that (exclusively) lesbian women are significantly less at risk for HIV infection than gay men who are – in general – much and much more “polygamous”. It’s interesting to note that in practically all societies allowing polygamy, this is an exclusively male prerogative. And just guess why this would be the case, precisely……
REREAD YOUR POST of April 26th! “Chlamydia and intrauterine cancer, a basically viral disease.”
FYI… intrauterine means inside the uterus. The cervix is not inside the uterus. HPV effects the cervix not the uterus. Example: intrauterine pregnancy.
Cervical, exocervical, endocervical are all part of the “gyn” anatomy but is totally different from the uterus, endometrium, myometrium, fallopian tubes, ovaries etc.
Your analysis is like saying the testicles are the same as the prostate or the urethra or the glans penis.
News flash…they are very different and that is at the heart of a medical education.
You’re winging it, Frederick, just like everything else.
No,no Mari, just take another, really close look at that sentence. I wrote, ….”intra-uterine cancer” (which should indeed have been more precisely designated cervical cancer) IS a basically viral disease”. If I’d MEANT to include Chlamydia, I would have said ARE BASICALLY VIRAL DISEASES. Capice? OK? Not that difficult, eh? Very, very, very simple and elementary grammar, my dear!!! Yes Mari, (close) reading is an art all its own and if you’re full of ill-will, which you seem to be, you can easily twist and turn people’s words and sentences and get away with it nicely, can’t you?
Now, again fyi, here is a literal quote from The BRITANICA CONCISE ENCYCLOPEDIA, “The cervix (or neck of the uterus) is the lower, NARROW PORTION OF THE UTERUS where it joins with the top end of the vagina.”. So, quite logically it (the cervix) is nothing more or less than an albeit crucial PART of the uterus, period. (Typically, in German the cervix is called “Gebärmutterhals”, which literally means NECK of the UTERUS). It’s total nonsense to say that if you consider the cervix and – the main body – of the uterus intimately related, you should say quite the same for the testes in comparison to the glans penis. But the two grand systems you mention here are quite differently structured. If you insist on such a structural similarity between the male and the female systems as described by you, you haven’t understood the first thing about human reproductive anatomy. Well, all comparisons are more or less flawed, of course, but perhaps you can say that the cervix relates to the uterus in the same way the glans relates to the shaft of the penis, not the testes, quite obviously. Glans penis and shaft are simply part of a naturally extended anatomical structure, as are the uterus and the cervix. Now, of course, I gather that you’re much, much, much better informed than the contributors to the Britanica Concise Encyclopedia, so it all magnificently figures………
By the way, you did not at all address the point(s) I made concerning the more fully relevant matter for our discussion here: the parallel structure of sexual conduct in modern gay communities and heterosexual culture in a whole host of developing countries. The relationship to “ the bio-psychological make-up” of the male species is conspicuous and might very well explain the difficulty of introducing effective hygiene regimes in both types of communities to prevent the spreading of STD’s.
Oh, are you familiar with that incredible story in Judges 19:22-29 about another gang rape, comparable to that famous Sodom & Gomorrah tale? Just about a week ago I read the story for the first time in Linda Patterson’s delightful book “Hate Thy Neighbor: How the Bible is Misused to Condemn Homosexuality”. (The story is situated in the town of Gibeah). In this story the men standing outside, scream for the owner’s guest ( a Levite) to come out and let himself be “known” by them, just as in the Sodom tale. Here as well, the householder fiercely resists the defilement of his guest. Finally, the Levite himself throws out his concubine to let the “hungry beasts” outside have their way with her. The poor woman gets raped all night long. In the morning she’s simply left to die and rot at the proprietor’s doorstep. And to top the whole thing off gloriously, the Levite, her “lover”, summons here to get to her feet and prepare for departure, as if nothing serious had happened. Seeing that she can’t, he puts her on the donkey himself and rides back to his residence. There, he takes out his knife and cuts up the poor woman’s body into twelve neat pieces. These he sents over to addresses all over the country. The final result? An army of men from a whole bunch of Israelite tribes sets out for a penal mission to Gibeah (a Benjamenite town). Nearly the entire Benjamenite tribe gets wiped out; only 600 men survive. And, mind you, in Judges 20: 18-48 you’ll find God’s full support for this massacre mentioned as a totally “normal” matter of fact. Great, eh? That’s your God, full of love and compassion! But the crucial point, of course is, whether this whole expedition should be considered an instance of God’s condemnation of HETEROSEXUALITY? Just guess, give it a shot……. Ah, do I hear you say no? Well then, what do you think, would that whole insane story of Sodom point to God’s condemnation of Homosexuality? Guess again and send us your report.
God condemns ALL sin. And if you truly understood the scriptures you’d know that the book of Judges is just that. You would also understand that “everyone did what was right in his own eyes” Judges 21:25.
Remember, promiscuity will always have consequences–doesn’t matter if it’s your self-sanctioned homosexual conduct or heterosexual adultery or fornication.
And one last note, “details do matter,” like I’ve said before. The significant detail that the cervix is different from the uterus is critical with patient care, diagnosis and treatment. Your statement, “incurable diseases like chlamydia and intrauterine cancer are basically spread by heterosexual behaviour,” is incorrect. And your attempt at an encyclopedic education is frail.
If a man or woman has the expected external genitalia,normal blood sex hormones for his or her gender, and the genotype appropriate for his or her apparent sex…then he or she is a man or a woman as these examinations indicate. Like thirst, hunger, and multiple other animal characteristics, sex is just another appetite which can be easily distorted. Homosexuality, pedophilia, and other unusual sexual preferences are merely extremely addictive distortions of the normal sexual appetite, and like smoking, alcoholism, glutony etc., these traits become very difficult to modify. When and exactly how the sexual appetite becomes distorted is hard to know, but it is important to explain this to young people before they become trapped in a very difficult to escape lifestyle.
Gay activists groups have tried to present homosexuality as an inborn trait as fixed as race, but until the scientific evidence is there to confirm there claims, homosexuality should be considered simply a
very, very, addictive distortion of the natural sexual appetite.
Well Mari, of course I knew you’d not be very much impressed by what “the experts” have to say (and show) concerning female reproductive anatomy, which nicely proves your narcissistic attitude towards matters having to do with scientific fact finding. But alright, so be it. Suit yourself. Your rambling about sin and the whole biblical rigmarole related to this notion, doesn’t the least answer my point about the oddities in your scriptures I mentioned in my post(s) above. The `Sodom` and `Gibeah` stories have nothing whatsoever to do with sexual preference as such, but with brutal violence and disrespect of the human body´s integrity. Only creatures belonging to an out and out savage Neanderthal-like species would, probably, ever condone behavior as described in those stories. It´s simply gang rape, i.e. an extremely primitive power game we´re talking about here, nothing more or less. Big deal!!! You must really have the intelligence of a three year old to project a dismissal of homosexuality into the good old tale of Sodom, Gomorrah and the three other cities of the plain. Those cities were simply stricken by a gigantic volcanic eruption. (Happens ever since this planet started orbiting around its sun). That whole gang rape story and the subsequent `punishment` by the tribal god Yahweh, comes across as mere mythical fabrication. Nice stuff to give first graders a full fit, but otherwise as trivial as the imaginary werewolves underneath your toddler´s crib. Please do yourself a favor and read Linda Patterson´s fine book, HATE THY NEIGHBOR . Will do you tons of good. Bon appétit.
Seems as though YOU take Linda Patterson’s title literally. You demonstrate your hate very well, Frederick. Think on that! Evil gushes from your heart and mouth and not a hint of compassion or concern about anyone else but “me, myself and I.” Shame on you! It’s quite nauseating to repeatedly hear your circuitous and long-winded monologues–and frankly, don’t deserve a response. Here is a fickle, inconsistent and capricious homosexual, an angry homosexual–you want acceptance and respect but hand-out intolerance and contempt. Maligning and isolating yourselves against society. So I get your point already-you’re having a temper-tantrum and you want your binkie! Go take a nap and come back when you can act civilly. It’s called, “Love and Logic.”
Hank, thanks for stating the obvious for those who need to be reminded.
Ever dared to take a good, hard look at your precious Christian opinions Mari? Well, considering and analyzing your contributions here, I doubt you ever seriously questioned your sense of realism, Mari. You hang on to a whole bunch of myths, tied to an era which not even remotely resembles the day and age we live in right now. Can you imagine a mob, so desperately hungry for some casual sex with a stranger, they’ll gather around someone’s apartment and start screaming for the poor guest to come out and be raped for hours? Come on Marilyn, you’re not that naive and stupid I do hope. It’s ancient mythology. my dear. Remember Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen and Dachau? Would you say the things that went on right there, were less atrocious than what those primitive, sex-hungry sods in Sodom tried to achieve? Well, we’re still waiting for the total destruction of Germany, aren’t we…..
So, if God really existed and had even a quarter of an inch of a sense of justice, don’t you think he would and, in fact, should have done something to keep all those millions of innocent Jewish children out of the hands of the Nazi beasts, Marilyn? I have Jewish ancestors myself, Marilyn, I do understand personally what it means to be persecuted and discriminated upon. Hitler and many of his mates were devout Christians, Marilyn. Just think about it!!!!!
No, Marilyn, don’t tell me anything about the love of god, Jesus or anyone you say you worship on a daily basis. To me it’s nothing but words, Marilyn. Hollow, empty words, that have been cast to the winds left and right for millennia, without any significantly positive effect to date. Our former president G W B, couldn’t stop boasting about the fact that God himself urged him to invade Iraq for the ultimate sake of peace in the Middle East. Ha, go tell this to all the tens of thousands of Iraqi mothers who lost their husbands and sons and brothers and are still suffering the dire consequences of an insane decision by a “Christian”.
Yes Marilyn, I’m angry; very, very, very angry, and rightfully so. Your Christian religion is a full, bad joke, promising folk nothing but a load of bull, just a bunch of empty pies in the sky and I guess that most of you are very well aware of this fact, but can’t stop trying to sell your crap to folk out there. Well, talk about an addictive attitude! And, oh yes remember Jimmy Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart and Bill Clinton, to name but a few diehard heterosexuals? Just Google up a few fact about their sexual histories and be informed about heterosexuality as a classic addiction!!! Good night.
Your seething anger toward a particular religious group is quite like the Nazi regime and sentiment was, wouldn’t you say?
Frederick, you can be reassured that I am perfectly fine with your decision to live your life as you please. You are responsible for your own decisions and behaviour. I’m not on a quest to blot you out.
Give Christians the same courtesy–I am holding out that you might be able to muster a bit of courtesy. All in all, I feel really sorry for you because you’re unable to realize your own hypocrisy. Lord knows we could all benefit from some empathy for each other.
I consider that a deep insult Marilyn, this mindless Nazi allusion. The Nazis were merely vying for the extermination of as many non-Aryan races as possible. Not so much out of anger but because of a deeply ingrained envy (especially toward the Jews), insatiable greed and sheer sadistic power hunger. What I want, not only for myself, but for my gay brothers and sisters just as well, is to be left alone, not be bombarded with endless, negative scriptural texts and, last but not least, be able to be myself publicly and freely. Nothing more, nothing less. Why this can’t be realized in a modern Western country such as the US of A in 2010, is really far beyond me. I adamantly refuse to live according to the literal interpretation of a book I most certainly do not consider “holy” (whatever that may mean) or inerrant. So, that’s my position. But this must have been clear to you for quite a while already. Anyway, much luck and bye the bye.
Final note: the debate may have generated much, perhaps even too much heat, but in all honesty I really enjoyed it and learned a lot from it. Thank you very much for the opportunity and for the patience on your side.
Thank you Frederick. Deeply held convictions can generate a lot of emotion. That’s okay–yes, we do learn a lot from those moments. I came away from this long conversation with a new perspective even though I have gay friends, I’ve never quite had a debate like this.
As I said before…I wish you well.
We love “most” of the gay population, we just prefer their “activities” be kept in the privacy of their bedrooms rather than in our face. The LAW says a MAN and A WOMAN..NOT a HETEROSEXUAL MAN and WOMAN!!!! SEXUAL PREFERENCE IS NOT IN THERE!!! A GAY MAN CAN MARRY A GAY WOMAN AND HAVE A CHILD RAISED BY A MAN AND A WOMAN. LIBERALS ARE VERY SICK PEOPLE AND MAKE EXCUSES FOR EVERYTHING(EXCEPT WHEN IT COMES TO CONSERVATIVES!) Next will come the SHEEP LOVERS who will demand their rights to marry a sheep…a lot cheaper than women!
the problem with your sheep lovers comment is that the sheep cannot consent to the marriage-so lets be consistent no big government=gay marriage legal, otherwise your just a hypocrite, wheather it is sin or not is for God to decide-those who have not sinned shall cast the first stone-judge not lest ye be judged thyself
Whether a person is gay is their business. However, don’t try and make everyone accept it as normal behavior. Changing all the laws to suit the gay lifestyle is not right, either. God did not intend for same sex to marry and He will never sanction it. I don’t make the rules, God does. A lot of people don’t like to hear that. I don’t like to hear that I lost at lotto again on Sunday mornings, either. thing
The bible and constitution were written by man and therefore have faults just like every human being has. Although the bible has some nice stories about morality and compassion for one’s self and other human beings, it is not the end all to every decision that we make and for the most part, contains fictious stories (we all recognize that there aren’t ghosts and Jonah couldn’t possibly fit inside a whale, right?).
With all do respect to all the christians that don’t judge people, the christians that do judge people really need to take a step back. What could possibly give you the right to believe that “God” did not intend for same sex marriage and that homosexuality is “immoral”. I personally know some gay partners that have raised beutiful and moral children. They do not “ruin” America any more than the racist and biggoted christians in this blog.
There comes a time when people must evolve. You do realize that the bible was written during a MUCH different time than now by imperfect men – and A LOT has changed in our society. Also, who is to say that the bible is the word of God? Does that mean that Judaism, Islam and other religtions are wrong? This is what makes religion in general so preposterous.
One can be moral and kind to other human beings without belonging to a religion. I for one am agnostic – I believe in a higher being that I can just not explain – but I AM also a moral human being. My job as an urban/regional planner helps make cities, towns, and rural areas better and more just for people. I volunteer at homeless shelters and provide guidance to those who ask.
All of those in this blog that truly believe in ghosts and goblins should being psychologically evaluated and should stop spewing their hatred of human beings that are different from them onto others. Thank “God” I have an education and can think for myself instead of roaming with the sheep.
All they want to get married for is the one with the least amount of money wants to get her/his partners money, thats it in a nut shell, and how can a woman married to a man have children etc.etc. suddenly become gay it is perversion and it is total sicko wacko and noone can change my mind, it is SICK, but then again I have a few screws missing myself
Gay marriage is a perversion of what God intended marriage to be which is between a man and a woman! People on the left or of the left are only interested in their selfish agenda which is to get laws passed for their special interests!! In a gay relationship there is no procreation the relationship or as they want to put it “marriage” cannot be consumated whith a child!!! As one famous preacher put it “Gays cannot procreate they can only recruit”. This so called “marriage” is only a recrtuiting tool!!! Beside if gays are given the right to marry where will it stop, farmers will want to marry their sheep, others will want to marry their dogs etc. etc. People of the left are STUPID!!!! They don’t see the future implications of their stupid idealogy they just want their selfish agenda fulfilled now!! There are no standards on the left!!! They think they are morally equivilant to the right and it seems even to GOD but they are not even close!!!!!
wow, a lot of people are going to hell. one guy wrote some stuff from the bible and assumes that because it is in the bible GOD condones it. not realizing that it is history. it is exactly what happened with nothing hidden. GOD did not force his will on anyone. GOD showed himself to be completely faithful even to those who were not faithful to him. how they explain bible prophecy is simply to say that the whole bible is fairy tales. the more and more that Christians are persecuted the closer i know Jesus is to coming back. the left is for the most part a tool of satan. the condone breaking laws to feel good about what they believe. GOD was right in saying that the world will get worse and worse and the left is the driving force. they call evil good andf good evil. gays behind pulpits. the whole church is headed to hell if they condone it. it is a sick sick life style. truly a life style from hell. we were started as a christian nation. their is plenty of evidence. lots of original writings. liberals just keep saying the same old garbage. it does not matter to the libs because they don’t want to know the truth or gays believe what ever they need to for justifying their immoral life style. Jefferson started many churches. congress authorized the printing of many bible for use in schools. the capitol was used as a church for many years. it was the largest for a while. the meaning of deist was changed to fit liberal agenda. but it does not matter what evidence is presented because they just don’t want to see it. even if you have a phd in history then the school was mickey mouse club. could that be a debased mind.
Very nice. I agree 100 percent. I find it completely entertaining when some guy comes along and is clearly a homosexual and he acts just like my girlfriends used to act. It’s a bit confusing and scary and curious all at the same time. I mean these people are here and how does God want us to respond to them? You can’t throw bibles at them, that repells even straights. So what do we do? All their “liberations” are being forced on us and Obama will push and push until he gets gay rights passed through. How are we suppose to act when a trans comes into the women’s restroom at the mall? How then shall we act? What would Jesus do? Any biblical hints?
If and of these —– have a Bible and believe in it (which I doubt) read 1st Corinthians 6/ 9-11. this sums it up.
Gosh, these bible beaters are like mosquitos buzzing around your head during summer nights. Only sane thing to do, liberals: get out your swatters and pesticides, but be carefull not to contimate yerself. Happy swatting!!!
Sorry for the typos. Should be contaminate and careful
John,
You wanted a reputable source on the Deism of our Founding Fathers (except for Alexander Hamilton, a multiple adulterer but a faithful Episcopalian).
Here it is: “The Founding Fathers and the Place of Religion in America,” a book by T by Lambert. Cites many original sources.
That’s such a lovely picture!
Yeah John, ain’t it a scream? Being a multiple adulterer and a Faithful Episcopalian, all at once?? Great, eh? But, ach, does it all really matter? It’s always been like that, it’ll remain like that for as long as our species inhabits this planet. Have a nice day….
It’s time for someone to tell you the truth about the Bible. Don’t you know that the Bible as we know and call it, is a Compendium of Religious Stories? The ‘stories’ were written by men named Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and others. Some are exact duplicates of others, some contradict others. GOD DIDN’T WRITE THE BIBLE and NEITHER DID JESUS!! This Bible does not reflect the “word of God”, it is merely many stories written by different persons. GOD DIDN’T WRITE THE BIBLE and NEITHER DID JESUS!! That’s why there are so many contradictions within it. So, the words “gay marriage” weren’t words then – it is only recently they appear in the printed word.
Apparently you do not know the many definitions of the word marriage. Look the word up in your library’s dictionaries. How is it possible, in your eyes, for the term, when referring to artists paintings, that many colors “Married?”I have not the time at this moment to cite my references but when I can take the time, I will list each one of them. You are dead wrong in legal unions between persons of the same sex!
I have something to say to all the people calling Christians ‘haters’ and hypocrites; If you saw a person about to be hit by a speeding truck, would you warn them to get out of the way thus saving their life?
We are all going to live for eternity, the only question is “what will your address be?”. This is a very important question for all of us as eternity is going to last a VERY long time!
The reason Christians are so passionate about sharing God’s Word is because they CARE about every soul and yes, that includes the souls of homosexuals! We are commanded by God to “hate the sin, love the sinner.” God doesn’t not want even ONE to perish. We are sharing what we know to be true and trying to warn those that have not yet been revealed the truth before it’s too late.
I do not hate gay people, I pray for their souls and the souls of all unsaved sinners! I am not better than you, nor am I perfect. I’m a sinner like every other person on this planet, in need of Christ’s sacrifice to cleanse me so that I can spend my eternity in heaven.
If atheists & non-believers are correct and there is no God, I have lost nothing by my faith & belief.
If we, the Christians are correct and you will stand before God for judgement, you have lost everything for all eternity.
I am not willing to bet my soul or yours on that. Are you?
Salvation is a FREE GIFT, through God’s grace, yours for the asking. It is so simple and it is a Christian’s love (not hate) for all people, that drives us to share & proclaim that Good News with such passion!
If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t struggle so hard to warn those we believe are lost. We would just sit quietly, content that our own souls are safe and not concern our hearts with warning you to “get out of the path” of that speeding truck.
God Bless you all.
Yes, HeavenBound, you’re really telling us something entirely new here….. Good graciousness, give us a break. We’ve had this type of nonsense coming our way for months already. And now you seem to want to start that whole circus all over again? You can’t be serious. The incredibly simple heart of the matter is that HEAVEN AND HELL ARE PURELY HUMAN INVENTIONS, all cooked up by church leaders to keep a tight grip on you and keep enjoying their position of power and special privileges. Nothing else. Ask yourself this question: why am I so convinced that what’s been included in the Bible I’ve been reading for years, decades and centuries is REALLY TRUE and not just a lame concoction of infantile myths? And, oh yes, faith is a game of chance, a gamble. Either we the Non-Believers or you the pathetic Bible Beaters are right. Well keep feeding your illusions (or rather delusions) about eternity and be happy. Good luck. I can already hear the angels’ trumpets sounding up to wake you from the grave………
no country can survive when its citizens cannot purge criminal behavior from elected officials especially at the top.we are waiting for them to pull the handle on the commode.chuck
Well at least one Republican has woken up and realized why the party is having a hard time recruiting young, college-aged people. Every time the Republicans make a big show about what someone wants to do with his penis, the Democrats register one more person under the age of 25. I myself will switch from “Independent” as soon as Republicans acknowledge that someone else’s sex life is none of the government’s business.
just because you or anyone said it does not make it right,god gave man kind freedom of choise to do good or evil something is bad wrong when people have to put their 12 or13 year old girl on birth control the bible has a lot in it on how to raise a child on homosexuals and marrage on hateing and loving thy neighbor it was adam and eve not adam and steve you can agree or disagree but gods word is forever
Where did you attend elementary school, Marvin? Not familiar with that thing called punctuation? But OK, this said, I’ve been wondering How you know PRECISELY that your bible really is “God’s Word”. Did He tell you that Himself, sometime last night or are you just parroting your pastor’s empty rambling? Pray tell!
Frederick, I see that you are repeating the Kindergarten Bible 101 class. You’re having trouble grasping the simple concepts…Creator, created, sin, life, death etc. I really don’t want to go over all this again to a supposed adult educated man.
In one ear and out the other! Your turn…pray tell!
Same sex marriage violates the natural law. The reason for marriage is to procreate the human race. Same sex marriage does not do this.
Soory James C, but marriage is most certainly NOT meant for procreation. If that were the case people over 60 or even over 50 should not be allowed to marry nor barren folk. Understood??? Marriage is very simply a Contract of Mutual Loyalty. Not necessarily sexual loyalty, but general emotional and monetary loyalty!!! So, if I’m down in the dumps or sick or have lost my job I should be able to count on my “spouse” for support and vice versa. That’s what marriage is meant for. So it doesn’t matter what gender you both belong to. Understood????
Dogs and owners have “mutual loyalty.”
Modern forward-thinking homosexuals like you certainly wouldn’t think about “counting on my spouse” as a viable tenet of the 2-income household of today?
Homosexuals are capable of acquiring all their stated “wants” (certainly with effort) in this society without a marriage label–get over it and work on your mutual loyalty, asexual, money-lusting, emotional-healing search without trying to steal the marriage arrangement that God so perfectly set forth centuries ago.
And by the way, if procreation is not part of marriage—you wouldn’t be here!
Oh good graciousness oour dear friend Marilyn is at it again. Well, you’re right: your Bible neatly fulfills the needs of toddlers and half-demented ninety year olds and above. Those poor souls you can keep fooling with your babbling about creation, sin, heaven, hell, etc. Not straight thinking, level-headed folk anywhere in the world. Just keep that in mind. Oh, I’m enormously enjoying Tshuang Tzu’s tales and parables about the Tao, these days. Very enlightening stuff, way and also way and way above what you Christians will ever be able to fathom. Rush over to your local library or bookshop and just browse through the Tao section and be properly educated for a change!!!
By the way, Marilyn, don’t forget to tell us everything about your experiences with the Tao books. I just can’t wait to hear how much you enjoyed them. Don’t you think they’ve got much, much more to offer than that New Testament stuff, that crap you’ve been trying to sell us the past six months? Definitely more subtle and sophisticated than what you’ve become used to, eh? Well, once again, much fun and inspiration with your Tao material. Lotsa luck….
Let’s just focus on the homosexual swiss cheese arguments and see how far you get—so far you’ve failed to present any credible or thought provoking argument to substantiate your opinions, just verbal darts with every poster that disagrees with you. Stay on point–homosexual marriage.
My dearest Marilyn, everything, but really everything one can possibly say about the legitimacy of “homosexual marriage” has already been thrown on this forum, months and months and months ago. Nothing new has been added the past three months. It’s a complete mystery to me, to tell you the truth, why the mods haven’t put the lid on it all a long time ago already. Arguments are being repeated endlessly and we’ve got nothing more than a complete “vanity fair”, a full-blown ego show on our hands by now: I enjoy pestering and you, apparently, can’t stop taking the bait. It’s become a delightful merry-go-round, my dear, a mighty pleasure generating engine, and you must be very well aware of it. You’ve got i.q. potential to spare, so I gather this line of reasoning constitutes a veritable cinch for you!! So Mari, thank you so much for wanting to join me in perpetuating this fancy fair about, uh, nothing, really…..
Really I enjoy seeing how much of a fool you make of yourself by rambling on and on about NOTHING.
The months and months of argument wrangling has washed away the homo sand castle. Your house is built on NOTHING.
Homosexual marriage is not necessary–you can proceed with your lives very comfortably without pestering those who are in a heterosexual marriage. It boils down to a “full-blown ego show” and a “merry-go-round of pestering” by you!
God Created Adam & Eve not Adam & Steve! Take a look at http://www.massresistance.com and forward that to your congressman & representatives. This is what our country is coming to if we let the “innocent” same sex marriage escalate.
Don’t get so excited my dearest Marilyn. Did I ever say that “homosexual marriage” was necessary? Come on, in your dreams maybe. But neither is “heterosexual marriage”. Homo sapiens, the human species has been around for about 100 millennia, during the greater part of which marriage was totally unknown to mankind. And we survived, didn’t we? The whole idea of marriage was originally meant as a means to protect women, who weren’t allowed to earn their own income in the old days and of course children, who, quite naturally exist in a very vulnerable position, biologically as well as socially. And, as you very well know, in the course of history marriage has been bestowed a very special legal status, carrying its own obligations and privileges. Well, in a free and democratic society consenting adults whether of the same sex or otherwise SHOULD QUITE SELFEVIDENTLY be granted equal rights (of marriage and mutual inheritance) under the law. End of discussion. It’s quite clearly a matter of civilization, (post)modern Western Civilization. Period.
And yes, Marilyn the whole point we’ve been discussing here amounts to a total non- issue. Something (i.e. Gay marriage) that’s been declared fully normal in about TEN COUNTRIES around the globe, for years and years already. Only in backward US of A conservative monkeys keep screaming their necks about this matter, because they’ve got nothing better to bother about. Eighty percent of this planet’s population is still starving or grossly undernourished; diabetes and cardiovascular diseases are rampant within this country of ours and you keep blathering about the so-called sin of same sex marriage? You should be horribly ashamed of yourselves. You’re a disgrace to modern 21st century civilization.
And don’t give me that complete crap about Adam and Eve for the umpteenth time. If you want to believe all that mythical nonsense, that’s your business, but leave our congressmen in peace. They’ve got infinitely more important things to worry about these days.
The original intent of marriage was for the woman to be the perfect help-mate to the man.
Perfect in every way…physically, emotionally. A perfect and satisfying completion of man. The human design by God is such that each, female and male is required to accomplish the mandate to multiply. Homosexuals are incapable of multiplying no matter how effeminate they become. Trying to lather on the make-up or put on a dress, castrating themselves surgically or chemically or acting out the female sexual act by being penetrated will never elevate the homosexual to the perfect design of female and male by God.
Secular acceptance has nothing to do with right and wrong. Our society makes that quite clear on many topics. “Just because they do it—doesn’t make it right.”
If you’re so unhappy with the way America reacts to homosexuals then take a trip to one of your aforementioned safe-haven countries. You’ll certainly get to stop pestering the mass-majority of anti-homosexual marriage proponents here.
Marilyn- If you accept the Bible (Gospels) as the INERRANT word of God, where does that leave all those who have divorced and married again? Jesus was far more specific about that sin of adultery than any discussion of same-sex relationships.
My (Episcopal) dioces has a married-couple of priests. SHe’s been divorced twice, remarried three times, and he’s been divorce one and married twice. They have no children together, so they did not marry to procreate. The Gospels and your interpretation of it is much clearer about the nature of their “sin” than mine.
There are log Cabin Republicans that are just shaking their heads. They want to vote republican, but are ignored by the party they support. They will probably still sit on the sidelines supporting their party of less government, less taxes, but get stabbed in the back from the party they prefer to belong with.
You paint them with a broad brush stroke, not knowing anything about the culture… you only see some sort of perversion… that’s all you think it is… Well guess what fellow righties… we work hard, pay our taxes, believe in America, speak English, obey the laws of our state, don’t believe in hate, sing the Star Spangled banner, believe in Mom and apple pie, goto church (amazingly enough), adopt children that straight couples cannot commit to raising. Stick up for the elderly, have compassion, and I can go on and on… but all you think about is SEX.
Your like a perverted man, looking at the magazine rack out of the corner of your eye… that’s all you seem to see…. and that’s such a waste…
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God **Romans 3:23
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness **I John 1:9
Spiritual matters are between God and the sinner and if you desire to make your heart right before God you’ll recognize that you need a Saviour. That requires a repentant heart.
The culpability of sin is not measured by how much scripture is devoted to it but if it is said at all. i.e. “Thou shalt not kill.”
It is human nature to rationalize or create some amount of wiggle-room for our behavior/conscience. No amount of maneuvering around sin will rewrite spiritual truth.
The only thing you do here Marilyn is repeating yourself incessantly. You just copy a few lines from your mythical scriptures and want us to accept them as THE “truth”. But, of course, nobody in their right mind will ever be fooled. You’ve missed the boat Marilyn; I’m sure you’d feel very comfortable and very much at home in that “godforsaken” (pun intended) era of the mid 19th century, when indeed women were (supposed to be) nothing more than so-called perfect help-mates to men, as you so tellingly say. You’re a full betrayer of your own gender Marilyn, a renegade, a cowardly ostrich, hiding her face in a book (i.e. the bible) full of mythical deception and false promises. Your bible itself is a book filled with evil deeds ordained by the tribal god you say you’re worshipping: one massacre after another and totally hideous abasement of women. And you’re right, one would be much better off in countries such as Denmark, The Netherlands or even Argentina. But I’m not a coward Marilyn, I’ll fight for my rights till the last drop of blood left in this mortal body. Rest assured.
So be it.
Quote me quote me…… but alas you are not my judge… but indeed you have judged me without knowing anything about me.
this is about liberty… this website is called “personal liberty”
… just like the Declaration of Independence… as in the right of life liberty and the persuit of happiness…
Keep reading mam…
“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Safety and Happiness.
I am safe and happy at home. I am at peace at home. I obey the law. and keep to myself. If I don’t I have the possibility of getting stoned by someone with a Bible or worse… so it is MY RIGHT as the people of this country to alter or abolish it… Glad to see that FINALLY… VP Cheney decided that we Log Cabin Republicans are like any other law abiding citizen…
If you want to make a stand against the GLBT community, then go ban public displays of indecency… but You cant even ban that on TV…
Look up each of the founding fathers. Ask what Religion was George Washington. What religion was Thomas Jefferson. Ben Franklin and the remainder. These fellows were not Christians. At least most were not. Most were deists and agnostics. It was they who founded this country.
Let’s get away from the power of hate from all religions. Peace, my friend.
John Webb
Absolutely agreed John Webb. Two thumbs up. Yes, (especially conservative) America is totally obsessed with religion. I’ve come to think that in that respect this country is the exact twin of a country such as Pakistan (or Afghanistan, if you like). How ironic! It’s even doubtful whether the USA deserves to be called a modern secular state What with all those hundreds of churches around in every city of some importance. Scares me, you know. Where will this all lead in the long run?
John and Frederick…
There you go Guys…exactly… Conservatives are obsessed with this. If Conservatives just stop being a “personal Jesus” to the GLBT community, they will gain support from those that want to believe the constitution and protect our Country.
We are not wimps. Go after the other party that supposedly “wants to get along” …(sigh)
Geeze… come on..
ya know, i am a christian and i so tire of this back and forth arguing between everyone about everything.
as christian we know what the bible says about SIN. we also know that this is exactly what god warned us about as we draw close to the end times.
so i’m now speaking to the bible believing christians.
why do you care? why do you argue? everyone knows the way to god is thru jesus and no one else. they know they are sinners. they love their sin MORE THAN GOD! that’s it.
the other thing is this, this world, this earth, this country is not our home! period! no questions! our kingdom is in heaven! we are here to tell others of salvation thru christ jesus.
we should be focused on the kingdom of god and nothing else.
stop arguing with people. satan has blinded them to the truth. if they don’t want to listen, then shake the dust off your sandles and move on.
spend time in the word of god, and pray for the sinners. and pray for yourselves. but it’s crazy to argue with anyone about issues on earth.
get focused on god and his word.
Yes Linda agreed, we are just passing thru and of course our focus is on the Lord. At the same time we are enveloped by worldly and secular people and things. We are exhorted to equip ourselves with the Word in our hearts and to be ready to answer in that which we believe. That being said, our witness doesn’t just include a passive non-verbal stance but a ministerial active involvement every day. I’m sure their are many people who unknowingly or knowingly look on this post and a spiritual seed is planted–who knows, only God.
God is able resurrect that which we think is dead. Never cease to pray and be a witness.
God’s blessings to you.
Shake the dust off your sandles and move on.
See you at the voting booth.
You just don’t get it… this is Political…
You either accept us or not. and it looks like you have Judged us to Not.
… shame on you for being the mortal to be the final judge… he won’t be happy with you… lifes too short to take that risk…
Couple of weeks ago I finished reading a delightful little book by “Master” Osho, formerly the Bhagwan, a guru of sorts, who’s been dead for about two decades already but whose taped teachings are still being put in print and published from time to time. Well this little jewel regards commentary by Osho on a whole string of tales and aphorisms by my favorite sage, the ancient Chinese “Master” Chuang Zhu, who lived sometime in the fifth century BC. Now, one of this bloke’s sayings that really hit me right through the heart is as follows, when the shoe fits, you won’t feel your foot. Just like that, so deceptively simple but at the same time so deep and profound, you can’t help seeing its meaning revealed everywhere around you, day by day by day. Take, for instance, the points of concern to all of us here, homosexuality and marriage. Each one can be seen as a shoe that in some cases will fit perfectly and smoothly and in the majority of cases (i.e. with heterosexuals) not at all. It’s as simple as that. As long as NO OBVIOUS AND EVIDENT HARM is being done the shoe that fits should be worn without a second thought. And that’s all we LGBT’s ask, to be left in peace and be granted the opportunity to wear the shoes that fit us and nothing further: no sermons, no scriptural lines, no empty moralism, nothing else. Period. Thank you very much.
DON’T JUDGE OR YE SHALL BE JUDGED. Now where did I see this before hmm.
There is EVIL among us and because humans want a hand out,something for nothing We as a people have allowed this to happen to us.
Should Gays or whoever marry WHATEVER! This is a subject that is a State by State issue only the fed’s have NO constitutional right to abolish or bless. Take it up with your state representatives. And not every State has to recognize that union or actually any union, their call.
I’m not your judge, Lisa–God will be your Judge. Christians love the sinner but hate the sin. You say, how can that be? May I suggest, read the Bible. You see, I’m not making any decisions for you, its all on your shoulders to accept or reject Christ and His Word. As you say, “life is too short to take that risk” of ignoring the teachings of Jesus Christ.
A Log Cabin Republican isn’t a check for the Christian conservative column. Darkness cannot overtake light, but the smallest molecule of light can penetrate the darkness.
See… there you go… judging….
You just dont get it…..
You don’t know me… you dont know anything about me…
I can be someone you know and you may thing I’m a perfectly nice person…
You and countless others think that all we think about is Sex…
I have a mortgage to pay. I have bills to pay… and taxes to pay..
I have seen america go ito the toilet because of people telling me how I should live… and what culture I should assimilate to… and I should let muslims build on a piece of land that mose consider hallo…
you are with sin my dear… just like ANY of us…
You deal with it the way you want… I deal with it in my way…
It’s just not YOUR way…
WELL, AFTER OVER A YEAR OF COMMENTS AND REPLIES ON THIS SUBJECT THE EVIDENCE IS CLEAR, THE UNGODLY HAVE FULFILLED THE PROPHECIES GIVEN CONCERNING THEIR SELF-JUSTIFICATION OF THEIR SIN. PROPHECIES DELIVERED THROUGH MEN TO MANKIND BY THE VERY GOD THE UNGODLY DENY. THEY REFUSE TO SEEK HIM CLAIMING THAT “ENLIGHTENMENT” WILL PROVIDE THEM “TRUTH” WHILE THEIR “EVOLUTIONARY PROGRESSION OF KNOWLEDGE” SATURATES THEIR BEING WITH THE NARCOTIC OF PRIDE. AND YOU BELIEVERS THINK YOUR GONNA TALK THEM OUT OF THEIR CORRUPTION? BETTER TO PRAY WITH FAITH.
In this country, you can get married in a dozen churches, but you aren’t considered “married” by the government until you pay for a “marriage” license. Change the license title to “civil union” for all. Problem solved. Unfortunately, most radical gay activists want the license to remain “marrage” so they can force churches to marry them or rick losing their tax exempt statis.
Yeah, very, very convenient, eh, to hide behind the concepts of god and the bible. Well, the bible is a book, a book doesn’t judge, it’s the people who wrote that book, just ordinary human beings, that should be considered judgmental, as well as folk throughout history calling themselves Christians and Believers. God only exists in their imagination and they know it. If God really resides in one dimension or another, he will take care of things himself. No need for a bunch of conservative Americans to settle the score. And “ungodly” you say? Well you know the term orthodox Muslims have reserved for you Christians: INFIDELS. And a fair number of them would gladly take up their knives to teach you a fine lesson, if you get my drift. Of course you orthodox Christians aren’t really that violent, at least weaponry-wise. But as far your language goes……. Just step into one of those many evangelically oriented churches on Sunday morning. I’m sure you’ll learn a thing or two about Hellfire and brimstone. So, don’t give me that crap about hating the “sin”, not the sinner. Hypocrisy comes in many, many guises!
HELLO FREDERICK H. I HAVE NOT ADDRESSED YOU. BY YOUR RESPONSE YOU AGAIN PROVE THE VALIDITY OF THE “BOOK” YOU SCORN AND THE GOD YOU DENY. TAKE CARE.
The problem with the GOP is they don’t really know what “conservative” is any more (perhaps they never really did know). The GOP needs to become the party of “constitutional conservatism”, i.e., “small Constitutional government; fiscal Conservatism; and personal Liberty!” That is the winning platform (if you leave it at those 3 things only) for our Country and the people.
But for some narrow-minded people that also means throwing their “pet” social/religious issues “under the train”. Many would prefer to see our Country and the Party destroyed before giving up their “unconstitutional”, religiously and/or socially conservative ?principles?. Does the Party really need such people, people who are so narrow-minded that they cannot see beyond their own interests? I tend to think they cause more harm than good to both the Party and our Country.
It is time for the Republican party to become the party of the Constitutional Conservative which means that it must be home to ALL Constitutional Conservatives and not just those who fit a “narrow minded”, simplistic view of the world entertained by their limited belief system.
Religious beliefs have a part in all of us and that is good but that is a personal part, unique to each of us; there should be no attempt to impose any religious belief upon another … share yes; impose no. One must strive to understand what religion is … and what it is not! That problem seems to be at the roots of so many conflicts.
For myself, I proclaim a belief in God in the way that I have personally come understand/know God (or which God has allowed me to know). That relationship is unique to myself and cannot be reduced to words so there is no need to try. “A truth once spoken is no longer a truth.”
The GOP needs ALL true Constitution Conservatives, not just those who proclaim themselves Republican, not just those who proclaim themselves heterosexual, not just those who proclaim themselves Christian (or some particular variant of Christianity for that is certainly the darkness where that road eventually leads).
I am a “right-winger” have been all my life. As A right-winger I believe one of Government’s basic purposes is to protect our civil rights. Since I can see no ill effect to other people, from gay marriage, which warrants Government incursion into people’s private lives we right-wingers should be supporting gay maggiage. We are the people who believe in limited Government introvention in our personal lives, thereforre, when we see Government dening individuals a basic freedom we should be offended and act to correct it. The Federal Government should clear the way by passing laws. rules, etc. yhat make it clear that the national government will honor individual liberties. (P.S. No, I’m not gay; I’m a Right-Winger)
Personally I find homosexuality to be repugnant naturally reagrdless if God is in it or not. I do believe in the Bible being the God breathed word and its clearly stated that honosexuality is an abomination. Humans can figure out all kinds of ways to rationalize their actions and no amount of talk is likely to convince them otherwise. Women are not to be preachers but they do it anyway for instance. Homosexuals, who used to be social pariahs, have attacked social mores with audacity, and have been successful in lockstep with other socially destructive changes such as the murder of unborn children. Something they haven’t changed is the definition of perversion in the dictionary: “a perverted form, the condition of being perverted, an aberrant sexual practice habitually preferred to normal coitus.” I will never accept it for anything else but what it is, unnatural behavior, no less repugnent than beastuality or pediphilic acts.
Marriage should NOT be defined at the federal level. Each state should determine that individually.
From the perspective of liberty, as long as an activity hurts no one else, we have no business dictating belief and lifestyle choices.
But…. it isn’t that simple.
I believe homosexuals are seeking to force acceptance of their lifestyle through the government, which is wrong.
Legalizing homosexual marriage suddenly makes it legal for homosexuals to force orphanages to adopt out to them, preachers to marry them, teachers to teach it to children.
If homosexuals stopped trying to force acceptance on me and my family, I would be far more supportive of their goal of equal rights.
This is something I really don’t understand, Suppose women had not “forced” their need for recognition and equal rights (wages, voting, job opportunities, promotion) upon the community at large and politicians in particular, where would we be today? Same story with blacks and other ethnic minorities. So, I honestly don’t see any “enforcement” on the part of the gays nowadays. Yes, they’re leaving their fusty closets by the dozen these days and rightfully so. We’re not in Iran or Serbia here. Wake up folks this is 2010, not the friggin’ late 19th century!!!
It’s great to see Republican and other conservative leaders embracing their alternative sexual lifestyle at the various “Gay Pride” parades this last week. Chip Wood? Wow! Chuck Norris?? Yes, he was at the Dallas event. It seems the only one missing was Mark Kirk. (His lover was at the one in Chicago.)
Who cares? It is not like they are forcing the rightious into their life style. Keeps them occupied and away from us. All we have to do is educate our children and teach them right.
Come on Frederick—sodomites have no problem with voting, wages, job opportunities or promotions. That analogy is wimpy. FYI ethnicity is not defined by sexuality.
Sodomy has been around for a long time and still hasn’t faired as well as women and their voting right that was achieved quickly compared to your supposed struggle. Hint, hint!
You are obsessed…
Ever heard of the word OBSESSION, dear Marilyn? No, well look it up in your dictionary and be surprised. Anyway, you seem to nurse two (obsessions)yourself, SEX and SIN. As to the former: are you still struggling with some problems in that direction? Well a birdie told me that there are plenty of specialized clinics around to help you out nicely. So, get out your yellow pages and you’ll find one in yer neighborhood swiftly. BTW a “Reading Clinic” wouldn’t be a bad idea for your well-being either. You seem to have read something about “sodomites” in my last post I myself have apparently missed. I gather you’re familiar with that particular word (sodomite) as well? Or not? Ah well it simply regards someone (whether heterosexual, homosexual, bi-sexual or whatever sexual), who’s solely into anal sex. So, the term might even nicely refer to your very own bed-practices, my dear!!! Or are we dealing with a full-blown FRIGIDAIRE here??? Pray tell….. Oh yes, good gracious lord, you’ve even provided us some very important information here: “ethnicity is not defined by sexuality”. What a enormously shrewd observation Mary. I think I’ll print that one on a real big poster, also featuring two gorgeous hunks embracing (one black and the other one white or Latino). Great idea, huh?
Your being real nice or could I say deranged? Wrap your head around that. Assume all you want–you’re missing the mark every time. HaHaHaHa!
Ah, there we are once again. As usual you don’t address the point(s) made, but you just continue your foul name calling (sodomy, derangement and all). Is that what you call a real Christian attitude? That’s what’s been amazing me for a long, long time now. The finger pointing, the accusations, the out and out hypocritical self-aggrandizement you Christians seem to carry the monopoly for. Yes, of course we gays will have to keep fighting for our rights here in what’s so ironically called “God’s own country” (ha, ha, ha, indeed), because people like you with your
self-righteous pseudo-religiosity are keeping this country in a totally backward, medieval position. Harassment of minority groups, massive environmental pollution, worshipping of handguns, all condoned by you conservative Christians. Go on like this, I’m sure your Jesus will grow ever prouder and prouder and prouder of you….
Oh, and I was so glad and proud (and jealous and sad at the same time)to hear that the Icelandic Prime Minister, a Lesbian Woman married her Lover last week. Sad, because I probably won’t ever see the day when a Gay man or woman enters the W H as President holding hands with his or her lover. Yeah, and the German Foreign Secretary is an openly gay man as well, travelling around the globe with his lover. Ain’t that great?
Frederick – we in the USA do have Barney Frank —– doesn’t he count —
The verbal temper tantrums that you throw out here solidify every view I have of a sodomite under spiritual conviction–you can’t handle it.
Oh yes libertytrain, I’ve been thinking about Barney myself, you’re right. Unfortunately he’s not the President or Vice-President and hardly known abroad or not at all, I suppose. However, sure, it’s an encouraging start.
To you Mari, Miss FRIGIDAIRE, I’ll say, aren’t we a mighty fine couple together ? I, a militant “sodomite”, as you say, you a stupidly stubborn fundamentalist, your head deeply stuck into the arid sands of the past, the 1950′s, for instance?
Frederick – we haven’t had much in the way of women being allowed in the top jobs till recent years either – so celebrate the little victories you find – as you find them.
Right again, libertytrain. I tend to feel entitled to have all the freedom folk in countries such as Iceland and Denmark do enjoy. And, in some quarters here at home women and colored people still seem to be struggling their hands off to be allowed into job positions they’re fully qualified for, but aren’t “supposed to occupy”, as they say. I know, but these victories, as you say, won’t come our way all by themselves, will they? We’ll have to keep alerting policy-makers to our fully constitutional rights and to their obligation to assist us with “proper legislation”. So I’ll keep pestering my representatives and continue throwing my outrage on the internet. Some will call me (and likeminded mates) mere troublemakers, pains in the @$$. That’s quite alright with me. To everyone his or her own style of self-assertion.
OH, THE DEAF EARS OF UNBELIEVERS AND BELIEVERS ALIKE.
OK now try to understand this if you cn I am a Christian, and also a republican, I am also GAY to tell others thay don’t have the right to marry who they love to endorse hatred on them for thier PRIVATE lives is no different than HITLER killing of the jews, I am a very productive member of our great society, i work daily pay my taxes and follow the law. why in GODS GREAT name would I have to be put under by the laws saying I can’t marry?
After reading many of the comments here I have decided that I think folks are so wrong to just hate in the name of GOD,the bible,the church, I work in a statts dept for a major law firm and we work with pulling statts together for many causes, suicide prevention,medical decisions etc.
The largest percent of suicide is caused by THE CHURCH NOt the Bible, teens are brought to hate themselves by the CHURCH which is MAN MADE why in the world do we want to keep teaching our children hate? Hate to the point of killing themselves, I do not understand.
so in short I hope and pray that Hatred goes away ALL hatred and may God bless everyone and protect thier souls and teach them HE IS IN CHARGE not the people of the earth.
You sound like a real weirdo preacher-man Manny. Sorry. But I gather you’re very happy that way…..
YES FREDERICK H. HAPPIER IN THE TRUTH THEN YOU WILL EVER BE IN YOUR CORRUPTION. A CHALLENGE: TASTE AND SEE THAT THE LORD IS GOOD.
The gay issue is absurd. First who do you justify the term “gay” to a perverted personal behavior. A behaviour that promotes an all but non curable desease or set of deseases…this make one HAPPY or to suppose gay.
The best solution to the ‘gay’ desease is the one Cuba uses. And that is complete isolation from the rest of the population until ‘deather do us part. Since there are so many in this country maybe we could use ‘Homeland Security’ money and severvices to declare these desease carrying happy(gay) folks a terriorist problem and put them in Guantanamo until ‘death do us part’.
This would solve two peoblems with one stone…by combining the jihadis, and the gayhadis we could with in one genration reduce the cost of treating these freaks and certainly tone down the arab murderers who would not make it to Alah because they are a paria in the 57 Mooslim states.
The both cary the mantel of mass murderes and love to spread their guts all over the persons next to them. And certainly they would not be able to claim descrimination on the basises of not being allowed to marry…they would or could be all burried together….
Oh good heavens, another complete lunatic posting here, who’s not even able to produce one decent sentence in plain, everyday English. And I’m sure this Dave character calls himself a real compassionate Christian, A type of moron that, probably, would have gladly helped the Nazis solve their, allegedly, most pressing problem……
GOD said “Those who do such things are an abomnation to Me”
nuff said
Trouble is “had enough” that the question HOW you can be so sure that it’s really GOD who said all this, has still not been answered satisfactorily. We’re talking about FAITH here (yours and your mates’), not SCIENCE, remember? It’s even questionable whether this being called God in your bible really exists at all. For all we know their could be a million Gods or an infinite number of such entities, or, yes, NONE AT ALL. And please spare me the question, how come we exist if there’s no God, because the counter-question immediately arises, how you (can) explain God’s own existence. HOW can God him or herself ever exist? I’m still waiting for the decisive answer to that question.
How can we be sure that YOU even exist, Frederick?
The call for gay marriage is not about equality, but rather government approval and then acceptance as
normal and mainstream. If it were about equality, any relationship would be about commitment, not any sexual act. A brother and sister or brother or friend or relative of any sort would be afforded all of the tax or
legal benefits or burdens that can come with marriage or with a commitment contract. Marriage is by
history and definition is between a man and a women. Religion doesn’t matter in the argument. Do what
ever you want in the privacy of your home, don’t involve me or ask for my blessing!!!
Oh, oh, oh Mari dear, you disappoint me once again. Shame on you. The very, very simple answer is that you’ve read my posts here and, if allowed, we could chat happily with each other through our ever beloved search engines Google or Yahoo, for instance. What more could you desire as proof of my very existence? Have you ever chatted with your god or had a nice ten minutes of conversation with him on the phone? I for one would be enormously curious to know what his voice sounds like. So, please do inform us…..
To ESCArpenter: Well who are you that anyone would care for your blessing and for what? Did anybody beg for your blessing? Come on dude, you’re as important as any grain of sand found along the beaches of California. So who cares two cents whether you grant your blessing or not? I most certainly don’t. Furthermore the question is WHO did ever define the concept of marriage for you? As far as I’ve been able to discern marriage is nothing more or less than a contract of convenience, offering the parties involved legal protection and security when clearly and unequivocally needed.
So your recorded thoughts here prove your existence…..I see.
Jesus’ words are recorded in the New Testament. He claimed to be God. “I and He are one.”
Nothing has ever disproved the validity of Jesus’ claims.
And just as you believe that the people who post here really exist so it is with the written biblical history.
Remember my entry above in regard to archaeology.
God speaks thru His Word. And until you experience the life-changing transformation that only the Holy Spirit can do you will never understand how God speaks to His.
Listen to Adam Hood’s transformation on Godtube.
No, no, no Marilyn, there we go again. I have already explained to you very clearly that archeology can never, never, never PROVE the existence of spiritual beings, such as God or Jesus or whomever in that imaginary abode you call heaven or whatever. For the quite obvious reason that archeology is an academic discipline focused on the analysis and INTERPRETATION of (the meaning of) Physical Findings. So, archeology and its “sister disciplines” (such as geology and historical science) can offer us arguments strengthening or weakening the plausibility of certain ideas or conclusions related to our own (material) observations, for the time being. But it can NEVER corroborate Spiritual (or spiritually inspired) Assumptions. Archeology was never meant to be used in such a manner. This is what I call Äbuse of Science”. If you contend that Luke mentioned 32 cities correctly that may be fully in keeping with archeological findings. But you’re most certainly not at liberty to conclude that THEREFORE Luke’s rendering of Jesus’ spiritually significant acts and experiences (the “miracles”, the last supper and all that allegedly happened at the occasion as well as his utterances at the cross, to name a few crucial points) should be considered correct. That’s stretching the “truth” considerably. Also, chapter 17 of the Gospel of John is entirely devoted to a monologue by a solitary Jesus to God himself. A truthful report? How are we going to find out, even through archeology? As long as we have no RELIABLE and objective material at our disposal depicting the veracity of these specific occurrences, nothing whatsoever can be said about their universal significance.
Let me give you another example: the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, related, of course to our main object of interest here. There is still no consensus among scholars concerning the real cause of their total demise (and that of other neighboring) cities at that particular point in time. Might have been a gigantic volcanic eruption. But it’s not highly probable that such an event could have had the totally devastating effect to be observed at that particular site. More promising would seem the hypothesis about the occurrence of a meteorite storm which may have not only destroyed S & G and their neighboring cities, but other population centers elsewhere on the planet as well. A fascinating article on this hypothesis is published on the net by Cambridge University (England). You’ll find it at http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc040297.html, second paragraph.
Another hypothesis concerns the idea that a massive earthquake provoking a huge landslide caused the liquefaction of the buildings and other material beneath, as the cities were built on “loosely packed ground that contains lots of water. Shaken up by an earthquake, the water can rush to the surface, and the ground can turn to water – a phenomenon called liquefaction. On a slope, this can become a landslide”. So you can imagine the impact of such an event: nothing directly observable would have been left. All living and building material would have disappeared below sea-level. This might very well have happened to the cities of the plain. Investigators hope to locate more concrete evidence for the existence of these cities through special electronics.
But now back to my main argument. Whatever hypothesis (meteorite storm or landslide liquefaction), in no case the spiritual part of the story will have been corroborated. The alleged underlying spiritual sequence of events, sin – warnings – non-repentance – divine wrath and punishment – remains TOTALLY SPECULATIVE. There is no evidence whatsoever for divine intervention here. It’s all pure mythology belonging to a distinctly low level era of human intellectual development. Nice Sunday school stuff, but nothing much worth considering.
Oh, I’m sure that in about 500 to 1000 years hence religious folk (supposedly still existent) will bother their fellow citizens with the “gospel of 9-11-2001”: and the Lord saw the wicked ways of the New Yorkers and therefore he sent them his preacher (wo)men. On every street-corner they could be found. But folk would not listen, so eventually he granted permission to his dark angels to fly off to that city of untold sins and let their towers of false pride explode into a million burning bits and pieces. Amen…….. Good night Marilyn
Mock God all you want but deep-down in your soul you know it to be true.
Adam Hood saw the futility of his ways….
Homosexuality leads to death and destruction little by little.
Meditate on that for a while.
For I hope you will see the truth before it is too late.
Thank you Marilyn, but it’s certainly not my intention to mock God or anyone else if it hurts them. And no I will not meditate on such negativity. I’m perfectly happy with my homosexuality. It’s the way I as an individual was meant to be. You know, for me the greatest problem with the monotheistic religions (at least the ones I’m familiar with) is their highly static and rigid outlook on life. Everyone must believe in Jesus as their Savior. Every single person MUST be family-oriented and should thus be heterosexually inclined. The denial of variety and diversity in nature is what estranges so many people in the West at least, from religion. For me the denial of one’s own nature leads to self-destruction and death in the end. No need to tell you that there are many, many very happy homosexuals and many deeply depressed ones, even as there are millions of hopelessly distressed heterosexuals and just as many very content ones. Sexual orientation as such has absolutely nothing to do with personal happiness. There is so much more to life than pursuing sexual satisfaction that I find it really preposterous to have to contemplate the question whether my sexuality will bring misery to my life or not. I’m not synonymous with my sexual preference. I love playing the piano, going to concerts, reading good books, cooking for my friends, communicating with my colleagues and clients and doing nice things with my lover. I really don’t see why I should grow to be a totally miserable person because of all these highly creative endeavors. I’ve seen so many unhappy conservative Christians fearing they will earn hell because they haven’t lived up to their sick, orthodox standards. That, in my opinion is sheer psychopathology, really sick, sick, sick. Contemplate this for a few days.
Things don’t bring happiness. Searching and doing more things that gratify the flesh will quickly fade away. I am blessed with much and can do just about anything I want to do—but I realize that “living life” as the world perceives is futile, it could all be gone tomorrow. I am surrounded by people in the entertainment business, movers and shakers you could say–and the only ones who literally and figuratively survive are those who reach out to God.
God loves the wicked you know, its up to the individual to reach out to Him. Knowing the Lord brings the only true happiness. Those like you who just coast along–will journey to the place where worldly just doesn’t do it anymore. You may or may not realize that you are here (exist) for a reason and I can assure you it is not to self-gratify.
Rereading your statement, “I’ve seen so many unhappy conservative Christians fearing they will earn Hell because they haven’t lived up to their…unorthodox standards.” A major oxymoron. Christianity IS the realization that we are UNABLE to EARN any spiritual points to enter Heaven. Jesus took care of that on the Cross, your part…to accept or reject the Gospel.
Wasn’t it Karl Marx who coined the clever term, RELIGION: THE PEOPLE’S OPIUM? Reading your posts, I’m duly reminded of that adage. You see, Marilyn, of course, everyone of us will have to face the fact that one day we, or should I say, our bodies will be nothing more than a heap of dust or ashes. But does that mean we have to hang onto a TOTAL ILLUSION, such as the notion of Heaven, a pie high up in the sky? Once again, HOW can you be so sure that there is such a place or condition or whatever you want to call it as Heaven??? Besides, do you know, for sure, what it is, precisely? How do you know that this is exactly what you’re so heavily craving for? Mind you, the only “evidence” for such a phenomenon (heaven, that is), consists of a few vague references in a book full of completely mythical tall tales. So yes, some entertainment monkeys take cocaine thinking that this is going to keep them rolling on stage for many decades, whilst others take up religion as their “drug of preference”. And I agree, of course, religion (in most cases, supposedly) won’t ruin your body and mind, but its fully illusory nature won’t free you of (what I dare call) the Tragedy of the Human Condition either. Yeah, isn’t it a shame?
By the way, please reread my previous post. I doubt you’ll find the adjective UNorthodox mentioned anywhere. If you do, I think a visit to the ophthalmologist will do you lots of good.
I am afraid this will soon become law in all 50 states and it makes me sick in the pit of my stomach. This is not the kind of law that God ever intended for us and it is even stated in the Bible that He forbids homosexuality. Our country is becoming more and more nefarious nowadays and there are more people in power trying to overturn all the good in our world. Truly sad indeed.
Well Cragsdale man, sorry for you, but I myself am overjoyed. At last, justice for us gays. Oh, I hear that even in Argentina gay marriage has been officially declared fully legal. Great, what a victory, at last!!!
How are you so sure Frederick, that Christianity won’t help the human condition since you are so repelled by it? Have you ever experienced it?
I”m sure I hear a hearty “no” from you. Your words of pseudo-wisdom are null and void of any sense…spare the mockery once again.
Well, Mari, dear, if you’d read my early posts, you would have found a tiny autobiographical note stating the fact that I grew up in real Christian environment. What with daddy being a Methodist clergy man and mommy a devoted churchgoer. And believe me Marilyn, I’ve seen a whole lot of hypocrisy in my younger years, so much so, I could fill a hefty tome with all my tragicomic stories. I think that’s the main reason why I’ve become such an insupportable cynic. I’ve seen preachers from diverse denominations fighting each other like politicians in Congress, and worse. I’ve known pastors sneaking through their mistresses’ backdoors at night., etc, etc.
Sorry, but Christianity and Islam both don’t appeal to me, not the least: they’re just much too loud, too insistent, too speculative and most of all too condemnatory and intolerant. Taoism speaks to my heart precisely because of its non-judgmental stance, its sense of humor and the absence of harsh dogmatic dictates. I’m simply in love with the “teachings” or rather tales, stories containing messages to quietly contemplate. No historical claims, no truth-claims, just stories for you to decide what you want to do with them. To me this means real wisdom: no coercion, but simply a mirror, a hall of mirrors in fact, reflecting your true self if you care to peek deeply enough. These stories bring peace and hope to my heart and mind. Great.
Gays do not need to get married. The idea that this is a “right” is a fantasy. We have a solid framework called the Constitution. This framework is based on the Law of God and the Law of Nature which is why it has worked so well. The Constitution is a miracle that changed the world. Now if we start picking over it to change for every group that wants to do their own thing we are going to get into trouble. Where do we draw the line? After gay marriage, we will see the polygamists want to become legally married to more than one person because they will claim it is a “right”. I say stick to the framework that has worked so well for over 200 years. Marriage is a holy union and God does not recognize gay marriages. Call me names if you will but I go by what God wants us to do, not what man says. A nation without God in it is a lost nation.
Come on buster, Terrie. Mind the following list.
Argentina
Belgium
Canada
Denmark
All of these are countries where gay marriage is fully legal now. All of them, lost countries??
Besides China is a real Godless country. And you know what, their economy is booming as never before. No, Sir, it’s America that’s become the “Lost Country”, backward in every sense of the word.
YES FREDERICK H. HAPPIER IN THE TRUTH THEN YOU WILL EVER BE IN YOUR CORRUPTION. A CHALLENGE: TASTE AND SEE THAT THE LORD IS GOOD. IN HIM. YOURS-7/7/10 HIS-6/23,24 , 7/6 SEEK.
Well maybe your embraced Taoism will, through its “hall of mirrors”, reflect the harsh “condemnatory and intolerant” tone spilling from your heart Frederick.
And by the way, real salvation involves total recreation of your heart. It just doesn’t come from being related to a preacher or raised by a churchgoer. It involves YOU. So there is no doubt you have never been born-again. Your autobiographical description doesn’t tell of any conviction of the Holy Spirit and repentance by YOU. Sadly, you have not experienced true redemption. And any sensible person knows that everyone, including preachers (I’ve known some too) that really miss the mark. That is exactly why we turn to God. Because we see the sinful nature of man.
You don’t have to mock what I say either. When I read what you have to say–it is so incorrect and misconstrued that I really just want to correct some things. I know you’ll never change and thats fine. Just make sure you get it right.
What’s so conspicuous, to me at least, about your posts Marilyn and Manny, is the endless rehash of Biblical Rhetoric. None of the arguments I’ve presented against traditional monotheistic religions you cared to address. Not one. I have pointed out the “perversion” of using (or rather abusing) archeology to defend the pseudo-truths of your religion, but you did not respond seriously to my argument at all. And that’s only one example of the way you (and your conservative ilk) usually treat us (agnostics and atheists alike): no clear, rational argumentation, but solely empty rhetoric, which time and again proves to me that you haven’t the least evolved beyond the stage of early medieval thinking. That’s absolutely fine with me: believe whatever primitive nonsense you want, but don’t try to curb my freedom of expression as a homosexual, bi-sexual, or whatever by dumping your ideas about a so-called God on my doorstep. It’s not god who wants or ordains this or that. We don’t know anything for sure about god, because he’s not been talking to us ever since he was invented. No, it’s you, YOU CONSERVATIVE BIGOTS who want to keep us hiding deeply within our age-old closets. Keep god out of this whole discussion, be honest, take responsibility for your own small-minded opinions. Stop hiding behind god, Jesus, the “virgin” Mary or whatever mythical personality. You’re the ones who want to keep nagging and harassing us till the end of your days. But, unfortunately for you, we won’t be silent any longer, we’ll fight back and let our voices be heard as never before. Keep that in mind.
FREDERICK, I’M SORRY TO HAVE HEARD OF YOUR PAST EXPERIENCES WITH THOSE WHO’VE CLAIMED TO BE “CHRISTIANS” AND SAY THEY KNOW GOD BUT DENY THE POWER THEREOF. FRANKLY, IF NOT BY THE POWER OF HIS SPIRIT DWELLING WITHIN, THERE GO I. RELAX FRIEND. YOUR SPIRITUALLY DEAD CONDITION IS NO WORSE THAN THAT OF PAUL THE APOSTLE. BEFORE HIS CONVERSION HE PERSECUTED EVERY JEWISH FOLLOWER OF CHRIST HE COULD FIND AS SAUL OF TARSUS (A RABBI, HIGHLY RESPECTED AND A ZEALOUS KEEPER OF THE LAW, IN HIS FLESH.)(read that “corruption”.) HE CARED NOT FOR THE GENTILE BELIEVERS FOR THE JEWISH RELIGIOUS HIERARCHY CONSIDERED THE “GOYIM” FODDER FOR SHEOL.(HELL) BUT THE JEWS WHO PREACHED CHRIST WERE AN ENORMOUS THREAT TO HIS “ORGANIZED RELIGION” WHICH INCLUDED LUCRATIVE WAGES AND CONTROL OVER THE JEWISH COMMON FOLK. THIS WAS HIS “SELF-RIGHTEOUS MISSION” UNTIL ON HIS WAY TO DAMASCUS (YES, SAUL REALLY GOT AROUND) TO SQUELCH THOSE PREACHING CHRIST IN THE SYNAGOGUES HE WAS BLINDSIDED LITERALLY BY THE RISEN CHRIST WHO ASKED “SAUL, WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME?” CATCH THAT? SELAH – WHICH IS HEBREW FOR “CONSCIOUSLY MEDITATE, PONDER AND CONSIDER WHAT HAS BEEN LAYED BEFORE YOU”. ASK, AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE. SEEK, AND YOU SHALL FIND. KNOCK, AND IT SHALL BE OPENED UNTO YOU. SELAH.
Manny, As a follower of the Tao, Frederick is probably more spiritual than you’ll ever be. Have you ever read anything other than the Bible?
HELLO KAROLYN. FREDERICK’S TRUE SPIRITUAL CONDITION IS DEAD, JUST AS MINE WAS, EVERY OTHER PRESENT FOLLOWER OF CHRIST WAS, AND EVERY HUMAN BEING EVER BORN IS OR WAS UNTIL THE POINT CONVERSION. ADAM WAS CREATED A SPIRITUAL HUMAN BEING. HE AND HIS WIFE (WHO WAS FASHIONED FROM HIS SIDE AS AN EQUAL, NOT FROM UNDER HIS FEET) WERE CREATED SO SPIRITUAL THAT THEY WERE CLOTHED IN LIGHT. (IN GOD’S IMAGE) THEY WERE WARNED SHOULD THEY PARTAKE OF THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL (OBVIOUSLY NOT AN APPLE TREE) THAT “IN THE DAY” THAT THEY SHOULD TRANSGRESS THIS WARNING THEY WOULD “SURELY DIE”. THEIR FLESH (BODIES) CONTINUED TO LIVE FOR WELL OVER NINE HUNDRED YEARS, (YES, OUR YEARS) BUT SPIRITUALLY THEY HAD DIED. ADAM AND EVE WERE A DIRECT CREATION OF GOD THEREFOR ADAM IS A “B’NAI ELOHIM” (SON OF GOD). ALL DESCENDANTS OF THEIRS ARE B’NAI ADAM, SONS (AND DAUGHTERS) OF ADAM. THE TERM “B’NAI ELOHIM” IS ALSO USED OF THE ANGELIC HOST CREATED BY GOD WHETHER FAITHFUL OR FALLEN AND OF CHRIST PLANTED AND FASHIONED IN THE WOMB OF AN EIGHTEEN OR SO YEAR OLD VIRGIN HEBREW WOMAN. (AS “THE SON OF GOD”) THE ONE OTHER PLACE THIS TERM IS USED IS OF THE SPIRITUAL CONDITION OF A PERSON WHO HAS ACCEPTED BY FAITH THE CLAIMS OF CHRIST. THAT PERSONS SPIRITUAL CONDITION IS MADE ALIVE BY A DIRECT CREATION WITHIN BY GOD. THUS THE TERM “BORN FROM ABOVE” OR “REGENERATED” OR “BORN AGAIN” OR “SECOND BIRTH” ALL REFERRING TO BEING BORN OF THE FLESH (A SON OF ADAM) AND BORN OF THE SPIRIT (A SON OF GOD). CHRIST TOLD A VERY RELIGIOUS RULER OF THE JEWS THAT UNLESS A PERSON BE BORN FROM ABOVE HE WOULD IN NO WAY EVEN SEE, LET ALONE ENTER, GOD’S PRESENCE OR HEAVEN PROPER. AS FOR YOUR INQUIRING OF MY READING HABITS (I BELIEVE THAT WAS A REFERENCE PERTAINING TO THE QUESTION OF HAVE I CONSIDERED OTHER “RELIGIOUS” OR “ENLIGHTENED” WAYS?) I CAN TELL YOU NO. I WAS SEEKING NOTHING AND HAD NO IDEA WHAT TO BELIEVE. OFTEN I WOULD LOOK OUTSIDE OF MY SELF AND WONDER WHY THIS WORLD APPEARED SO BIZARRE AND CONTRADICTORY AT TIMES BUT IT WASN’T UNTIL I WAS BROUGHT TO A POINT IN MY LIFE BY MY OWN HAND THAT IN MY SOUL I FOUND I WAS A DEAD MAN WALKING TO THE STING OF THE GRAVE, AND I DIDN’T CARE. THAT’S WHEN HE SHOWED ME BY HIS SPIRIT THAT I’D BETTER. HE KNEW I POSSESSED TOO MUCH PRIDE TO ALLOW MYSELF TO SUCCUMB TO ANY “SYSTEM” I DIDN’T CARE ABOUT OR “THOUGHT” I WAS ABOVE OR WAS ABOVE ME. BY HIS LOVE AND HIS MERCY HE CAME LOOKING FOR ME. SORT OF LIKE THE “HOUND OF HEAVEN”. HE OFFERED, I ACCEPTED. “I ONCE WAS BLIND BUT NOW I SEE”. SOUNDS CLICHE BUT THERE’S NO BETTER WAY TO DESCRIBE IT. A PERSON WILL ONLY REALIZE REALITY AND TRUTH WHEN THEY CAN’T ESCAPE IT. CHECK OUT THIS LITTLE DIDDY: WHERE CAN I GO FROM YOUR SPIRIT? WHERE CAN I FLEE FROM YOUR PRESENCE? IF I GO UP TO HEAVEN,YOU’RE THERE. IF I MAKE MY BED IN THE DEPTHS YOU ARE THERE. IF I RISE ON THE WINGS OF THE DAWN, IF I SETTLE ON THE FAR SIDE OF THE SEA, EVEN THERE YOUR HAND WILL GUIDE ME, YOUR RIGHT HAND WILL HOLD ME FAST. SELAH FOLKS
DO YA “SEE” YET KAROLYN? OUR FRIEND FREDDY IS AS DEAD AS A BOX OF ROCKS. WHAT’S IN YOUR “WALLET”? SELAH.
In 50 years or so, IMHO Medical advances in genetics will eliminate the need for “Same Sex” anything. Medical technology will provide those people finding themselves in the wrong body an option of becoming what they want to be, totally.
So…im against same sex marriage, marriage is what it has always been and should stay. Let medical science provide the option for a traditional, creater blessed union…
let the state provide an equal right under the law union for those that consider it a lifestyle.
FF
In less than a century from now the need for men as “procreators” will have totally vanished. Women will be able to bring forth offspring without the need for male sperm. That’s what I’ve been told by several (male) biologists. So, heterosexual marriage will then have become fully obsolete and everybody will be legally allowed to marry anybody else, provided they’re over 18 (perhaps even over 16). I’m crying now, because I won’t live long enough to see and celibrate that day!!!
No XY chromosome? Women (XX) wouldn’t be able to “bring forth” any XY’s. Bye-bye male babies. I guess that means no more homosexuals…don’t worry Frederick if you’ll not be around neither will any other males.
No Marilyn that whole damn chromosome problem will have been taken care of by then, as you might have guessed. That’s so typical in your case: you can only envision scenarios in accord with the current state of (scientific) affairs. Well, consider the fact that there’s still a whole school of scientists contending that it’s totally impossible for something (matter and its infinite appearances) to arise from nothing. Absolutely impossible. And yet, here we all are. You believers even maintain that your god has created this whole universe out of nothing. How could that ever be possible? You still haven’t answered that one, remember? So, don’t fret. Our boys and gals in their white coats will come up with a neat solution for your chromosome issue. Dream about it, MALE HATER!!!
And, oh yes, no more Male homos, huh? Only genius dykes. Wouldn’t that be a hell of a screamer?
Oh wait, I thought you conservatives were convinced that homosexuality has nothing to do with genes or genetics. It’s totally a matter of personal choice, isn’t it. So, what will be the point of any genetic hocus-pocus half a century from now????
You’re not God. And its your assertion that humans can be “brought forth” without essential DNA. So let’s be clear…it sounds like you are the “male-hater” since there won’t be a “need for male sperm.” Once again pleasure without consequence defines you.
I’m not God? What has that got to do with anything? So typical for you: just blurt out some inanity and see what comes of it. To me it’s pretty clear now that you simply can’t think in terms of analogies. But ok, suit yourself. Furthermore, I only wanted to present a hypothetical, futuristic scenario. For all we know procreation might very well become a fully lab directed activity, strictly controlled by the authorities. (China with its single child policy has already given us some taste of the near future). We’ve all read Orwell, we all know what’s in store for us in coming centuries. What unscrupulous scientists will be capable of doing with human (and other species’) cellular material, only highly gifted futurologists can convincingly speculate about, n’est ce pas?
BTW, you’re really enjoying this back and forth biting and bickering, aren’t you? Have my blessing!
Air bag.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Fantastic Mari. I wish you could here me howl here at my window overlooking the elm-lined street. Great, I love it. I think you’re a truly good sport now. And you know , that’s what makes interaction really interesting and worth the effort IMO: the creative exploitation of contrasts and divergence. The last time I attended Sunday services (years ago now), I was bored stiff, precisely because of the whole arrangement with practically everyone constantly moaning Amen, Amen and nodding their freshly shampooed heads. No interactive tension, no intelligent exchange of contrasting feelings and insights. The whole format impressed me as totally outdated, sterile and rather futile. If there’s a God, purportedly approving the whole farce, he must have fallen asleep long ago, I thought.
But ok, I’ve enjoyed our “fights”, precisely because they very much sharpened my awareness of what inspires me spiritually. Notably, Zen’s and the Taoists’ relativism and profoundly thought provoking aphorisms and tales. These proved to be the stories I could (and am still able) to relate to strongly. Admittedly not with all, but certainly most of the ones I could lay my hands on. Once again, what puts me off mostly with monotheistic doctrines is their aggressive truth claim. At the end of the day nothing else would be of any significant importance but their core message: give your life to Jesus, follow his rules and you’ll be saved from hell, or in the case of Islam, follow the prophets rules (e.g. five moments of prayer to Allah a day) and you’ll be perfectly save, etc, etc. In other words the only “insurance policy” worth considering is, quite simply, rock solid faith (and no naughty thoughts and tricks during your lifetime). What a relief, ain’t it?
GEE WHIZ FRED. FOR A GUY WHO HAS SUCH A PROBLEM WITH FAITH YOU SURE PLACE A LOT OF IT IN YOUR TRUST IN HUMAN SCIENTISTS TO FURTHER PROPAGATE OUR SPECIES WHEN THEY CAN’T EVEN HONESTLY PREDICT THE METEOROLOGICAL CYCLES OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM LET ALONE REBUILD A SMOOCHED MOSQUITO. IF YOU’D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN TRUTH, HAVE AT IT. I’M ALL EARS-AND ANSWERS. SELAH.
Well Mr Selah (what a gorgeous name), compare all those centuries Christianity has been around to the measly two to three hundred years science is trying to find answers to questions religion has never been able to address properly. You keep contending that “God” created the universe in six days or thereabout, but HOW that could ever be possible, remains a complete mystery. (There are those, btw, who now believe it took Him millions of years to finish the job, but the question HOW and WHY He did it (if he did it) is still not being answered. Religion is all about Promises, Promises, Promises, but nothing significant has been DELIVERED to date. This world is still an incredible mess and Christians are contributing zealously to its condition by supporting wars and hideous dictators who do nothing else but filling their pockets with money belonging to us, the people. Yes one day Jesus will deliver us from all these evil beasts and, of course, we’ve got all the time imaginable. See you in about two million years from now….. No Manny, don’t be a total fool. The ONLY reason you keep spreading the tiresome message about faith and hope is just because you’re impressed by a bunch of mythical stories contained within a 2000 year old book. Grow up now at last. Fairy tales are for toddlers, not for men of a certain age.
O.K. FRED. BEFORE WE GET STARTED I HAVE TO LAY THE GROUND WORK THAT YOU MAY POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND THAT THOUGH WHAT I WILL “PREACH” TO YOU, (THAT’S PROCLAIM AND TEACH, PREACH.) IS FACT, FOR THE MOST PART YOU WILL REFUSE TO ACCEPT WHAT’S LAYED BEFORE YOU TO CONSIDER AND PONDER. (SELAH) AS A BELIEVER AND FOLLOWER OF CHRIST I’M TO FOLLOW THE LORD’S EXAMPLE, THEREFORE IN OUR CONVERSATIONS I WILL NEVER BEGUILE, BELITTLE OR PASS JUDGMENT TO CONDEMNATION UPON YOU. I WOULD APPRECIATE THE SAME IN RETURN. OF COURSE A LITTLE HUMOR AND A POKE OR TWO(TO EMPHASIZE A POINT) SHOULD BE ALLOWABLE FOR GOOD HUMOR MAKES FOR MUCH MORE PLEASANT COMMUNICATION WHEN DISCUSSING WEIGHTY MATTERS. AGREED? FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANTLY YOU ARE DECEIVED BY YOUR PRIDE. (THIS IS NOT A SLAM, IT IS OUR SIN NATURE AND IS THE MAIN ROADBLOCK ON ONE’S PATH TO TRUE SPIRITUALITY). PLEASE DON’T CONFUSE THE TERM PRIDE WITH ONE’S OR ANOTHER’S PRIDE IN ACHIEVEMENTS OR ABILITY’S. THIS PRIDE IS ONE OF A CONDITION OF SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS OR SELF- AGGRANDIZING WHICH BLINDS A PERSON TO THE LORD’S REALITY (WHICH WILL ENDURE FOREVER AS ALL ELSE WILL PASS AWAY ALONG WITH TIME AND SPACE). YOUR TRUE SPIRITUAL CONDITION IS DEAD, JUST AS MINE WAS, EVERY OTHER PRESENT FOLLOWER OF CHRIST WAS, AND EVERY HUMAN BEING EVER BORN IS OR WILL BE UNTIL THE POINT OF BEING BORN OF THE SPIRIT. ADAM WAS CREATED A SPIRITUAL HUMAN BEING. HE AND HIS WIFE (WHO WAS FASHIONED FROM HIS SIDE AS AN EQUAL, NOT FROM UNDER HIS FEET) WERE CREATED SO SPIRITUAL THAT THEY WERE CLOTHED IN LIGHT. (IN GOD’S IMAGE) THEY WERE WARNED SHOULD THEY PARTAKE OF THE FRUIT OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL (OBVIOUSLY NOT AN APPLE TREE) THAT “IN THE DAY” THAT THEY SHOULD TRANSGRESS THIS WARNING THEY WOULD “SURELY DIE”. THEIR FLESH (BODIES) CONTINUED TO LIVE FOR WELL OVER NINE HUNDRED YEARS, (YES, OUR YEARS) BUT SPIRITUALLY THEY HAD DIED. ADAM AND EVE WERE A DIRECT CREATION OF GOD THEREFOR ADAM IS A “B’NAI ELOHIM” (SON OF GOD). ALL DESCENDANTS OF THEIRS ARE B’NAI ADAM, SONS (AND DAUGHTERS) OF ADAM. THE TERM “B’NAI ELOHIM” IS ALSO USED OF THE “ANGELIC”(MESSENGER)HOST CREATED BY GOD WHETHER FAITHFUL OR FALLEN AND OF CHRIST PLANTED AND FASHIONED IN THE WOMB OF AN EIGHTEEN OR SO YEAR OLD VIRGIN HEBREW WOMAN (AS “THE SON OF GOD”). THE ONE OTHER PLACE THIS TERM IS USED IS OF THE SPIRITUAL CONDITION OF A PERSON WHO HAS ACCEPTED BY FAITH THE CLAIMS OF CHRIST. THAT PERSONS SPIRITUAL CONDITION IS MADE ALIVE BY A DIRECT CREATION WITHIN BY GOD. THUS THE TERMS “BORN FROM ABOVE” OR “REGENERATED” OR “BORN AGAIN” OR “SECOND BIRTH” ALL REFERRING TO BEING BORN OF THE FLESH (A SON OF ADAM) AND BORN OF THE SPIRIT (A SON OF GOD). CHRIST TOLD A VERY RELIGIOUS RULER OF THE JEWS THAT UNLESS A PERSON BE BORN FROM ABOVE HE WOULD IN NO WAY EVEN SEE, LET ALONE ENTER, GOD’S PRESENCE OR HEAVEN PROPER. THIS MAN WAS AN EXTREMELY RELIGIOUS JEW AND HE WOULD BE ONE TO KEEP GOD’S COMMANDMENTS (THERE ARE ACTUALLY 613 OF THEM) TO THE LETTER, LITERALLY. IF ANYONE WOULD BE A “SHOE IN” THIS GUY WAS IT. YET, CHRIST TOLD HIM FLAT OUT THAT WHAT HE NEEDED HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN OF (AN OLD TESTAMENT TEACHING) AND SINCE HE HAD NOT-HE COULD NOT EVEN PERCEIVE THIS SECOND BIRTH IN HIS SPIRITUALLY DEAD CONDITION. CATCH 22. THAT ALL BEING SAID, HERE’S A QUICK GLIMPSE OF MY JOURNEY FROM WHAT I DIDN’T KNOW TO WHAT I COULD NEVER IMAGINE IN MY SPIRITUALLY DEAD CONDITION PRIOR TO BEING BORN FROM ABOVE. I WAS SEEKING NOTHING AND HAD NO IDEA WHAT TO BELIEVE. OFTEN I WOULD LOOK OUTSIDE OF MY SELF AND WONDER WHY THIS WORLD APPEARED SO BIZARRE AND CONTRADICTORY AT TIMES BUT IT WASN’T UNTIL I WAS BROUGHT TO A POINT IN MY LIFE BY MY OWN HAND THAT IN MY SOUL I FOUND I WAS A DEAD MAN WALKING TO THE STING OF THE GRAVE, AND I DIDN’T CARE. THAT’S WHEN HE SHOWED ME BY HIS SPIRIT THAT I’D BETTER. HE KNEW I POSSESSED TOO MUCH PRIDE TO ALLOW MYSELF TO SUCCUMB TO ANY “SYSTEM” I DIDN’T CARE ABOUT OR “THOUGHT” THAT I WAS ABOVE OR WAS ABOVE ME. BY HIS LOVE AND HIS MERCY HE CAME LOOKING FOR ME. SORT OF LIKE THE “HOUND OF HEAVEN”. HE OFFERED, I ACCEPTED. “I ONCE WAS BLIND BUT NOW I SEE”. SOUNDS CLICHE BUT THERE’S NO BETTER WAY TO DESCRIBE IT. YOU SEE, A PERSON WILL ONLY REALIZE REALITY AND TRUTH WHEN THEY CAN’T ESCAPE IT. CHECK OUT THIS LITTLE DIDDY: “WHERE CAN I GO FROM YOUR SPIRIT? WHERE CAN I FLEE FROM YOUR PRESENCE? IF I GO UP TO HEAVEN,YOU’RE THERE. IF I MAKE MY BED IN THE DEPTHS YOU ARE THERE. IF I RISE ON THE WINGS OF THE DAWN, IF I SETTLE ON THE FAR SIDE OF THE SEA, EVEN THERE YOUR HAND WILL GUIDE ME, YOUR RIGHT HAND WILL HOLD ME FAST!” GOD IS SPIRIT AND WE ARE TO WORSHIP (ACKNOWLEDGE/APPRECIATE) HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH. SELAH. NOW THAT YOU MAY SORT OF UNDERSTAND WHERE WE’RE COMING FROM, NEXT TIME I’LL COMMENT ON YOUR QUESTIONS AS IT’S BETTER NOT TO CHEW MORE THAN WE CAN DIGEST AT A TIME, “AMEN?” (MEANS “TRULY”,”AGREED UPON”) HOPE THE REST OF YOUR WEEKEND IS GOOD. TAKE CARE AND THANKS FOR THE REPLY. – MANNY OF GOD, (DON’T TAKE THAT THE WRONG WAY. MY BALLS AIN’T THAT BIG!) AKA MOG. HEY, I’M MY OWN BEST FRIEND!
I respected and liked- and still like- Dick Cheney, however he is wrong on this one. His thinking is clouded by his love of his lesbian daughter. No parent wants to condemn their kids, and he confuses condemnation of the act with condemnation of his daughter. The 2 are not the same. You condemn acts and correct offspring.
Homosexual activity is not normal for 98% of the world’s population. Those who life that lifestyle have an average of 125 sex partners annually, 25% to 50% higher rates of sexually transmitted disease, AIDS/HIV infections, hepatitis, and other diseases than the straight population at large. Why promote a lifestyle that leads to more health problems, adding strain to an already stressed health care system or early death? Check with the CDC (incidentally a government agency) in Atlanta, the stats are theirs.
I’ve got another one for you: on a global scale HIV and AIDS appear to be “TYPICALLY HETEROSEXUAL” afflictions, with the virus and the consequences of its presence in all those poor bodies all over Africa, large parts of Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin-America, killing millions of innocent neonates. Look up the stats on your search engine. And the solution: BAN HETEROSEXUAL INTERCOURSE in all those countries for at least half a decade. Let the secret police get to work to keep an eye on folk between twelve and seventy. Or better still: ban that wretched form of sex forever and the planet will fare so much the better, with the greatest predator around (man) out of the way!!!
I don’t see a problem with gays.The largest problem we have facing the planet is too many people. Gays don’t reproduce and it leaves more women me:-)
No Love No Justice No Peace
Know Love Know Justice Know Peace
Duende – You’re right, the world has reached the breaking point with over-population, millions starving and unemployed, and Mexicans pouring in over the border every day. Who’s going to feed all these people or give them jobs? Let’s face it, the gays are not the problem, and they do not contribute to the rising crime rate. Gays might be disgusting if they are effeminate, but they don’t make babies and they don’t rob banks, etc. The normal people have only to look in the mirror to find who is responsible for all the wars, crime, and babies in the world.
This is another one of those stupid situations that occur because people can’t see the cause of the problem. The problem is not “should we allow gays to marry”; the problem is “should marriage be something that is defined by the state, be it federal, state or local. Without government sanction of marriage, people would then be free to decide for themselves what constitutes marriage. This would have a wide range effect on our society.
Things like spousal benefits would be something negotiated between the employee and employer. Churches would be free to decide for themselves if they will sanction same-sex marriage. In short people would be free to choose how they want to live their lives, not have some “one size fits all” solution forced upon them.
Absolutely agreed IMPERATOR03. People fight for their freedom of gun possessiion in this country. Can you imagine? Guns, weapons meant to KILL. Whereas marriage, whether between persons of diverse or the same sex is meant to BUILD (companionship, mutual care and – e.g. financial – security)!!! Now tell me, where’s your logic, where’s your compassion and sense of justice if you keep refusing CONSENTING ADULTS to freely pick their marital partners? Shame on you. Ah, but the Californian Supreme Curt has ruled in our favor just today, hooray, hooray, hooray!!!
FRED,FRED, C’MON MAN! I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU WERE QUITE A WORLDLY INTELLECTUAL PERSON FOR A FELLOW “DEVOLVED” HUMAN BEING. (MORE ON THAT AT A LATER DATE) YOU ARE CELEBRATING THIS JUDGE’S DECISION WHILE THE BIGGER AND MORE FREEDOM THREATENING THING AFFECTING ALL OF US THAT HAS OCCURRED IS THAT THE LEGAL VOTES OF OVER SEVEN MILLION OF OUR FELLOW CITIZENS HAVE JUST BEEN NULLIFIED BY ONE MAN’S PERSONAL BIAS! GAY THIS OR THAT ASIDE, DON’T YOU REALIZE THE IMPLICATIONS OF WHAT HAS JUST BEEN DONE? IF HIS RULING SHOULD BE UPHELD A PRECEDENT WILL HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED THAT BY JUDICIAL FIAT A JUDGE OF ANY POLITICAL OR IDEOLOGICAL BENT CAN NULLIFY BY DECREE ANY LEGALLY POLLED REFERENDUM PRESENTED AND PASSED BY THE VOTERS. THAT’S YOU AND ME! AND THEN WHO COMES AFTER THE JUDGE? A “DULY ELECTED” OFFICIAL PULLING THE SAME CRAP?! LET’S NOT FORGET THAT THE ORIGINS OF VOTER REFERENDUMS LAY AT THE FEET OF THE DEMOCRATS AND PROGRESSIVES OF THE 60′S WHO ARGUED THAT THE MECHANISM WOULD ALLOW MORE OF THE “PEOPLES” WILL TO BE IMPLEMENTED AND THEREFOR STRENGTHEN AND ADVANCE OUR SOCIAL “PROGRESS”. WHAT WILL OCCUR WHEN A LEFT LEANING VOTER DECISION IS STRUCK DOWN BY A LAWYER IN A ROBE? HOPE OR PRAY THAT THIS ASSAULT ON OUR REPUBLIC WILL FAIL OR WE WILL HAVE ULTIMATELY “REAPED WHAT WE HAVE SOWN” IT APPEARS WE’RE FARTHER ALONG IN HISTORY THAN I WOULD HAVE IMAGINED. AS AN ASIDE, I WAS CURIOUS WHY IS IT THAT YOU DECRY THE GOVERNMENT DEFINING MARRIAGE WHILE YOU MIGHT ALLOW THEM TO FORCE ALL AMERICANS INTO A “UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE” MONEY AND POWER GRAB? (AND YOU’VE GOT TO KNOW THAT’S WHAT IT IS.) I HAVE A FEW GLB CUSTOMERS WHO I’VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH. ALSO IF NOT DEFINED, WHAT ELSE SHALL WE SAY CONSTITUTES A MARRIAGE RELATIONSHIP? THREE PEOPLE? FOUR? A WOMAN AND AN INANIMATE OBJECT? A MAN AND HIS DOG? (IF POSSIBLE WOULD THAT LAST UNION BEGAT A MOG? (GOTTA HAVE SOME FUN HERE.) HONESTLY, LET ME KNOW YOUR VIEWS ON THESE TOPICS WITHOUT QUIBBLING OR SNIPPING. ANYHOW, HOPE YOUR DOING GOOD, MANNY OF GOD (MOG) (BARK’S WORSE THAN THE BITE)
(BY THE WAY, YOUR ASSERTION THAT GUN’S ARE MADE TO “KILL” IS BIAS-LY SUBJECTIVE AS IN REALITY THE ULTIMATE GOOD OF A WEAPON IS ONE OF SELF- DEFENSE. WHERE I’M “FROM” FIRE ARMS ARE TOOLS. THE ONLY TIME A PERSON WOULD SEE THE BARREL END AND LASER OF MY GLOCK 27 IN .40 CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON WOULD BE IF THEY WERE “ASK’IN FOR IT.” YOU MIGHT SAY “PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR FIRE POWER”.)
What a bunch of hypocrital BS, Manny. Sorry, self-defense or not, fire-arms DO KILL and LASERS are purely sadistic means to inflict horrible pain and injury. Is this what you call a Christian mentality? Your own “savior” is supposed to have said: WHOMEVER TAKES OUT THE SWORD SHALL PERISH BY THE SWORD.
And spare me that unbelievable stupidity about “A MAN AND HIS DOG ( or even his computer, if you like). I said: CONSENTING ADULTS of the human species, that is, capice???? Good graciousness……
And, oh God, there we go again with that damned health care business! I’ll just say it in one single sentence: if you Conservatives had taken proper measures about a decade ago when your precious George W. Bush was in already in office, not a single Democrat would have to worry about the fact that millions of Americans were un- or underassured and had (and have) to be helped out by CHARITY in the 21st century (I almost wrote the 12th century which would have been much more appropriate!!!).
Uh, sorry for the typo. Any way, btw, suppose the judge had ruled in your (consevatives’) favor, what would you have said? “Ah, see, justice at last. God is great” So, don’t even think about denying it!!!!
THERE YOU GO AGAIN FRED. SEEMS YOU JUST CAN’T CARRY ON A CONVERSATION WITH A FELLOW HUMAN BEING WITHOUT ACCUSING- (DIRECT TRANSLATION OF THE HEBREW WORD “DEVIL”), SLANDERING- (DIRECT TRANSLATION OF THE HEBREW WORD FOR “SATAN”) OR BEING A GENERAL SMART ASS. AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE EDUCATED ENOUGH TO BE MORE CIVIL IN YOUR VERBAL BEHAVIOR WHILE COMMUNICATING YOUR THOUGHTS. SPEAKING OF WHICH AS I’VE PAID ATTENTION TO EACH AND EVERY WORD YOU’VE USED TO COMMUNICATE YOUR THOUGHTS YOU’VE OBVIOUSLY NOT AFFORDED MY WORDS THE SAME RESPECT.TOO BAD AS YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING. FIRSTLY (ONE, THE NUMBER OF UNITY) THE LASER ON MY WEAPON IS A SIGHT, NOT A RAY GUN. SECONDLY (THE NUMBER OF WITNESS) YOUR QUOTING FROM SCRIPTURE THE WORD’S OF CHRIST USED WHEN HE WAS WARNING HIS FOLLOWERS NOT TO INTERFERE WITH HIS BEING APPREHENDED BY THE ROMAN SOLDIERS AT THE ILLEGAL REQUEST OF THE JEWISH HIGH PRIESTS AS WAS FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE CREATION OF EVEN LUCIFER. (HEBREW FOR “LIGHT BEARER”) THIRDLY (THE NUMBER OF THREE AS ONE, HOLY OR UN-HOLY) “CONSENTING ADULTS”? AGAIN I ASK YOU HOW MANY? FOURTHLY (THE NUMBER OF ENCOMPASSING) “40 MILLION PLUS UNINSURED AMERICANS NOT ABLE TO RECEIVE HEALTH CARE” IS AND WAS A LIE. NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY IS EVER DENIED CARE IN A HOSPITAL ER, NOT EVEN AN ILLEGAL ALIEN. I HAVE FRIENDS AND RELATIVES IN CANADA AND BRITAIN – YOU CAN’T SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT THEIR SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE UTOPIAS. I’VE HEARD IT FIRSTHAND. ALSO, MANY OF THE TWELVE OR SO MILLION WHO LACK HEALTH INSURANCE THAT COULD ACTUALLY PAY FOR THEMSELVES INCLUDE THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO BE “UNINSURED” PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF THERE AGE BRACKET WHICH FALLS IN THE 18 TO 26 YEAR OLD GROUP. THEIR REASONING: “I’M YOUNG AND I REALLY DON’T NEED IT.” FIFTHLY (THE NUMBER FOR GRACE “UNDESERVED OR UNEARNED FAVOR”) CONFISCATING A PERSON’S EARNINGS AND RE-DISTRIBUTING IT TO ANOTHER TO BUY THEIR VOTES IN THE GUISE OF “HELPING THEM” IS NOT “CHARITY”. IT IS EXTORTION, STEALING AND PAYOLA ALL OF WHICH ARE “SIN”. (OLD ENGLISH FOR “MISSING THE MARK”) SIXTHLY (OOU, THE NUMBER OF MAN) YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE JUDGES ” DECISION” IS JUST WHAT I MEANT! GO BACK AND READ WHAT I PLAINLY WROTE MAN! SEVENTHLY (THE NUMBER OF COMPLETION) YOU NEVER REPLIED TO MY REPLY TO YOUR JULY 29TH POSTING. C’MON MAN, LET’S GET DOWN TO SOME WEIGHTIER (IS THERE SUCH A WORD?) DISCOURSE. THIS AIN’T NAME CALLIN’ IN THE SCHOOL YARD TIME. HOPE YOU ENJOY THE WEEKEND, TAKE CARE, MOG (ROUF! ROUF!) P.S. EVERY NUMBER USED IN SCRIPTURE HAS DEEPER MEANING BEHIND IT BY DESIGN. FUNNY HOW EACH OF THESE LINED UP WITH THE SUBJECTS AT HAND…..NAW, CAN’T BE.
Well Manny, dear man, you must have heard of the once very famous British writer Rudyard Kipling. This great man coined a saying that, to me at least, seems very fitting to our mutual tangle, You must be familiar with it: EAST IS EAST AND WEST IS WEST AND NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET. That’s exactly what’s going on here, as far as I’m concerned. You biblical spinning and your traditional, conservative attitude to life are as far from my pathetically liberal soul as Jupiter from Venus, I dare say. So what good will it do either of us to continue bothering each other with our convictions. You as softly as Lady Aphrodite herself and I as aggressively as Lord Zeus on one of his worst days. So, I wish you heaps of good luck with your lasers, your Smith & Wesson goodies, your fine health care arrangement and, last but not least, your tried and trusted Old and New Testaments…… Yes, I know it, I’m a hopeless case, with anger written all over mortal face. Well, it simply can’t be helped. Have a swell weekend, bye, bye.
Enjoy the typos…….
When the heat is on, you bow out….
Yes dearest Mari, you appear to be a very, very fine PARASITE: entertaining yourself at the expense of others you don’t seem to able to crush or lure into your vile camp. The real EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN mentality, I’d say. We’ve had 2000 years of that shite; of the biblical hallering an whining, to no avail. We’ve won now in California, we’ll be victorious all over this magnificent country. Just you wait and see. Keep up the bawling and bashing, our skins have grown thick enough to let the spit of you morons trickle off like sweat in a Southern heat wave. Bye, bye, have a sweet weekend…….
Oh, I’ve chanced upon another very timely book for y’all to read and ponder, IRRELIGION: WHY THE ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD JUST DON’T ADD UP, by Professor John Allen Paulos. Buy it, read it, it’ll make you run from your hypocritical, money grabbing pastors and priests like a fowl in a field of foxes, I can assure you. Enjoy yerselves…….
Nothing has been won in California anymore than Hitler’s pyrrhic victory when he danced a jig after the fall of Paris. Truth will defeat the lie in due season. In the meantime continue your rabid, rantings and ravings. get it out of your system. It’s not healthy and remember Cheney and Arnold are with you always(until the next election). PS. Islam has no time or place for this so called “right”. Are there enough gays in the military or the whole world to suppress this relgion. You need the evangelicals like a baby needs milk.
The truth of the matter, Johnny, is that there’s really very little difference between the objectives of (orthodox) Islam and conservative, evangelical Christianity. Basic dictum in both cases is, EITHER BELIEVE OR PERISH, if not within your earthly life-time than most certainly thereafter. So, as far as I know, these ideologies share, at least, one main objective: full global domination to be attained through (either verbally or – in the case of radical Islam – physically) aggressive persuasion. But as with all “sweeping” ideologies on this planet there is an inherently cyclic pattern to their development. Their rise and increasing popularity are inevitably followed by a process of gradual (and in some cases – e.g. Soviet communism – even a surprisingly acute ) decline and ultimate fall. As for Christianity we’ve seen this happening (gradually) in Western Europe from the time of the French Revolution on. IMO Islam will go through a similar process of degeneration, fueled by (especially the younger generation’s) steadily growing (and finally total) disenchantment with the system’s structural authoritarianism, reinforcing abuse of power, financial corruption, poverty for large segments of the population and constant gross injustice. We see this happening right now in Iran, where the totally static system of top-down politics is slowly crumbling to pieces from the inside out. Bottom line here is: you can’t keep fooling the people with fancy stories about the so-called glory of God and Heaven and what not. The emperor’s full nakedness will inevitably be exposed one day, whatever tricks his servants pull out of their deceptive bags.
Oh yes, about that milk, Johnny: it depends; if your baby’s got a lactose intolerance, it won’t do him/her much good. Besides, ordinary, industrial milk is loaded with toxins these days (pesticides, herbicides, hormones, etc, etc, etc. So, beware!!!!!
As a Christian conservative, who finds the divorce rate, multiple partners and promiscuity revolting, I reject the idea that a certain group of people should be denied the Constitutional right to pursue happiness as long as it is not hurting others. It really seems hypocritcal to me with all the other debauchery we are inundated with daily.
The U.S. and the entire world is in chaos, the economy and liberal agendas are stealing our freedoms bit by bit, we are catering to agnostics and athiests by removing Crosses and Christian holidays and yet we have a president who coddles our enemies and sanctions building a mosque on our sacred land thus adding insult and injury to all those who died, their suffering families, etc. I think they should build a brothal across the street from this atocity.
Back to the issue of gays marrying. I think the GOP should be dealing with the economy, jobs, defense and quit quibbling about gay marriage. We just do not have the mind of God and if children are born with any other defect or what we consider abnormal we do not deprive them of seeking happiness during this time on this earth. If I may quote ‘whoever is without sin let them throw the first stone’. Sin as descrivbed in the commandants is “thou shall not commit adultry’. The GOP cannot afford to allow the gay marriage issue cause more division within the ranks. It’s just playing into the Dems plans.
P.S. I am a senior citizen, been happily married with four children so I don’t have an ax to grind except with my party that cannot afford to eat it’s own.
It really is simple. If we take marriage back out of the hands of the government like it was when this country was founded then the church will not be forced to marry homosexuals. Marriage was a personal liberty available to all Americans before the states started regulating marriage. Who am I or who are you to tell another who or who they can not marry? I am an ultra conservative Christian and believe that if Christians truly are concerned about homosexuality they need to follow the pattern of Christ and not try and legislate morality. Laws do not change peoples hearts only the blood of Christ.
Josh No one has or will EVER force the church to marry ANY couple. It is in and of the churches discretion. I’m a Catholic who refused to contractually raise my children Catholic so therefore was married in an Episcopal church. By the way, the “Religious Right” does nothing BUT legislate morality. Christ DIED for my sins, past, present and future. If I choose (to) or (not to) follow “the pattern of Christ” has little to do with my acceptance in Heaven. I’m going, see you there, some day.
Sorry, but there is only one path to heaven and that is believing in Jesus as your personal savior and to follow all his teachings. If you don’t follow his pattern, you won’t get in. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Don’t be too sure that you’ll enter one Heaven or another postmortem, Obamina, man. Nice idea (that one about heaven) to keep you going throughout your lifetime, but I’m afraid that’s about it. No sugary Jesus and his precious mom Mary will be waiting for you up there. It’s simply a convenient lie the church has been forcing down your throats for centuries in order to maintain her position of totally corrupted power. Please, read the book I mentioned above, IRRELIGION: WHY THE ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD JUST DON’T ADD UP, by Professor John Allen Paulos and be educated and surprised.
Gay marriage makes no sense. Marriage has been between a man and a woman from the the beginning and should remain that way. Their cry of equal rights is unfounded. They have the right to marry just not someone of same sex. If they want to pretend they are married then call it something else and not degrade/destroy the institution of marriage.
It’s sad that it has come to this after the gays have been given so much in our society.
I think we need to find out what causes one to be gay and deal with that because it is not in the natural order of things (even the animals know better). Personally, I think it has something to do with a hormone imbalance but I’m not a scientist or a doctor so I really don’t know.
How can a homo get married if marriage was created by God/Allah who hates homosexuality? If the U.S cannot respect marriage for what it is than they ought not use the term or ceremony. Gays should just be life long partners by promise or some stupid ceremony they create for themselves in the bedroom. Don’t use a legitimate, 10,000+ year old Godly ceremony or even use God’s name. That’s reserved for the normal. And homo’s aren’t normal.
Well, I had a nice, long conversation with God/Allah yesterday and he/she told me that about 15.000 years ago gay marriage was already just as “normal” as it is today in Belgium, the UK, Argentina, Denmark, The Netherlands and (very soon) in South-Africa as well. So, that are you blathering about? Besides, who cares about what’s “normal” and what is not in this day and age? About a century ago it was quite normal to hang a negro who dared to give a white woman “the sweet eye”, so……. Just by yourself a time-machine and hop over cozely to the 1930′s. Good luck.
Sorry, should be what i.s.o that, and buy, and cozily, of course.
I’ll take the libertarian stance. Marriage is a religious institution that the government shouldn’t have been involved in in the first place! Around the time of Jamestown, the British opposed any interracial marriages that THE CHURCHES PROVIDED! We were under British rule when the King took (any) marriage, within the 13 colonies, under British Government rule — to stop interracial marriages! “Government is never the solution to the problem, government is the problem.” – (Ronald Reagan). And here we sit, our current government, ruining our lives, I mean, so much for winning our independence! The answer is to give all couples civil unions, regardless of sex, recognized with equal protection under the law. Next, if these same couples want their civil union(s) recognized through their church as a marriage, please do, seeing that it’s a religious institution! And there are plenty of churches to go around for everyone!
No, no, no, ABSOLUTELY NOT SAL. Marriage is NOT A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION AT ALL. Marriage is a SOCIO-CULTURAL INSTITUTION, and has been recognized as such probably since pre-historic times. And in our (post)modern society where there is a SEPARATION OF STATE AND CHURCH (thanks Goodness), marriage should be regulated by the State, not by the Church. The church has lost its authoritative legitimacy in the past century already. The State is there to protect us against the Church’s Medieval Rulings as well as the whims of Corporate America. So, out with the Church. Let the people believe whatever they like, but stay away from the way we want to regulate our personal lives. Finally, I fully disagree with you about Government: it’s not ruining our lives, quite the contrary, is is protecting society from crumbling into total chaos, wherein the BANKS, for instance, can sell us complete garbage and get away with it nicely!!!
Attention Please!!!!
I find it most amusing all the comments being made on a subject that according to the U S Code which in effect is a extended part of the U S Constitution. Here is what the Code says about MARRIAGE and I placed this on my Facebook page yesterday.
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My NotesEdit import settingsEditATTENTION!! Proposition 8 IS CONSTITUTIONAL!!!! WANT PROOF READ THIS NOTE!!!!! THE JUDGE DOESN’T KNOW HIS JOB.by Arthur J Plourde on Monday, August 23, 2010 at 4:04pm
ATTENTION ALL AMERICANS:
WE DO NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THE IMMORAL SEGMENTS OF OUR SOCIETY ATTEMPTS TO CHALLENGE THE SACRED SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE!!!! Rest assured I would not be stating this without evidence to back up my statements.
HERE IS THE PROOF!!!
The California court(s) just did something wrong again and they have wasted your TAX $$$ in giving a decision on a topic they had NO JURISDICTION over. To anyone that wants to challenge the COURTS & MORONS who brought this action on the MARRIAGE issue here is the FEDERAL and OUR state’s definition. Maybe someone like ‘duh’ Jerry Brown should recind the action of the Appeal to the Ninth Circuit since the state has “NO JURISDICTION” !!! Hey, if Jerry doesn’t know the Jurisdiction of this matter, what makes you think he knows anything at all? How can he be an Attorney General? I thought you had to be smart and intelligent to do that job?
Go for broke! God bless
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Located under California Codes?
There presently is no definition to be found of marriage in the CA Constitution (imagine that?).
God bless FAMILY CODE.
FAMILY CODE
SECTION 300-310
SEC 300. Marriage is a personal relation arising out of a civil contract between a man and a woman, to which the consent of the parties capable of making that contract is necessary. Consent alone does not constitute marriage.
Consent must be followed by the issuance of a license and solemnization as authorized by this division, except as provided by Section 425 and Part 4 (commencing with Section 500).
NOTE:
Do you get the picture, no one knows how to read and/or if they acknowledged the LAW on “English” nothing could possibly get lost in translation. Either/Or? Is that too simple?
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You know how they yell, scream, holler about we states not being able to mess with the federal level? Well here is a “gotcha”! Cram it down their throats. God bless
U.S. Code (Extention of U.S. Constitution)
TITLE 1 CHAPTER 1 § 7
§ 7. Definition of “marriage” and “spouse”
In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word “marriage” means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word “spouse” refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.
NOTE:
Agencies (as stated in the statute) can be defined as any of the 50 states and/or U.S.
So now ALL can see just how “MOOT” this subject is. I am afraid that all the states who have voted to allow this Sodom & Gomorah type activity to be sanctioned are “ALL OUT OF ORDER” and the only way this code can be altered is by juridiction of the Congress and 2/3 of the states. This is not going to happen. The immoral society withing the moral society should IMMEDIATELY STOP ATTEMPTING TO RAM THEIR AGENDA DOWN OUR THROATS. THEY ARE OUT OF ORDER AND ALL JUDGES WHO HAVE NEGLECTED TO DO THEIR HOMEWORK SHOULD BE RELIEVED OF THEIR POSITIONS FOR RENDERING DECISIONS ON THIS SUBJECT WHICH THEY HAD NO MORAL RIGHT TO DO. There will never, ever, in this country a code change to give the IMMORALS amongst us the right to marry. It is wrong, indecent, and violates the LAW of Christianity and Humanity.
Wow!, Wow, and more Wow! What part of that do they not understand!
What a heap of rubbish!
Let’s hear where your prehistoric marriages are documented…
Oh, and let’s just praise our government…better yet let’s hear you substantiate the socio-economic mess we are currently in…Go!
Oh holy lord, here we have Miss Parasite once again. If you don’t know what the word PRE-historic means, just look it up in your fancy dictionary. Well, found it? So, you now know that, quite obviously, written statements substantiating the notion of marriage in pre-historic cultures will only ever exist within your fertile imagination. And, surely, you’re not terribly familiar with the word SATIRE either. Poor Mari, a lot of homework for you, huh? But a lovely birdie told me the other day, you haven’t got much else to worry about, so……. Oh, speaking of homework, if you wanna know how the Big Banking Corporations got us into the current economic mess (and not our precious Federal Administration), just hop over to Yahoo, Google or some other search genius and you’ll be quite fine!!! Have a great night, sister Mari!
Well, lets see… you want the government to regulate marriage but embrace the non-existent statement, “separation of church and state.” Dizzyingly double-minded. Frederick you spew out arguments to cut down opposition debaters but when you’re called to make sense of it you can’t and continue to blame the other side with fickle arguments. Trickery…con artist…bipolar?
What are you blathering about? It’s not a matter of merely wanting Government to regulate marriage. The state has already been regulating marriage for ages (all over the civilized world) and the church has no business whatsoever interfering with laws pertaining to the legal union of couples willing to commit their lives to each other and share their assets with one another. I’ll repeat my main point: marriage is a SOCIO-CULTURAL phenomenon the status of which can and should be solely defined by the authorities chosen by the PEOPLE. The church falls fully out of that league. Besides, every era of civilization may completely redefine the meaning and boundaries of marriage. This is 2010, not 1776. Remember?
Ones personal Liberties should in no way provide a one up or a weakening of the Personal Rights of those who would not choose a same sex partner or who does believe in God, or hold life as sacred at conception etc. Because people want what they want is no valid excuse whatsoever for a minor portion of the nation to resort to corruption, fraud lies and embrace an anti-Traditional form of governance and a criminal in the WHite house to get their pathetic wishes. The Church doesnt regulate marriage it sanctions it – One obtains their license to marry in the Church, takes marriage and family life courses there. Because the government does not regulate hearts – Marriage is a Socio-Moral-Agreement between two people – a couple of the opposite sex – in agreement with society to live, conceive, bear, nurture and rear healthy, intelligent, future contributors – Marriages raise healthy children who in turn marry and raise family of their own – not gay, not free-loaders, no burden on society and not to deny the personal Liberties of anyone else – SO why is it that gays feel entitled to have a right to disrupt others social and personal liberties? The GOP needs to reject same sex marriage because the world needs American men and women – Not Chavez’s, Obamas, and Micheles or Hillarys. These names on their own demonstrate how mentally disordered they are. And so is any political party that thinks it has to suck up to the lowest of denominators to win.
SOome of you are as stupid in 2010 as were some in 1776 – what does chronological time have anything to do with Values? You might want to relax but I will resist your attempts to weaken and soften the foundation that this nation is built upon – You are being a coward there – You fail to recognize our nations uniqueness and there is NO ROOM FOR COMPROMISE SORRY – thats what makes many people poor candidates for hetero marriage too willing to easily give up that which is not theirs — Sorry weakling ways or desires to alter this nation? NO way! IT doesnt work that way. Keep wanting I will maintain resisting
Values? What values? Is one of those values the right to oppress, discriminate and terrorize people belonging to particular minority groups? Because that is precisely what you’re propagating here. In 1776 it was quite normal to keep slaves and consider human beings with a certain ethnic background inferior (even in an absolute sense) to others. For many so-called civilized Americans this was still the case in 1876 and will probably still be so in 2076. No need to tell you which type of ethnicity is involved here. So quite obviously the Value of EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW is at stake here. (In other words: consenting adults of whatever sexual orientation should always have the right to marry one another, whatever the circumstances). As far as I’m concerned this (i.e. equality) constitutes an inalienable part of our constitution.
And you’re right: marriage may and should be considered a SOCIO-MORAL AGREEMENT, yes, but as such it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION. Religion represents a particular way of defining morality as well as (the foundations of) human destiny. Unfortunately religion (especially of the orthodox variety) strongly reinforces a HIGHLY STATIC view of society and its institutions and this may be at odds with the development of these same institutions (such as marriage and the division of labor). So, it may be hard for you to endure major changes in our society, but in a dynamic society change is fully inevitable, whether you like it or not. After all, this is not Iran or Saudi Arabia, this is the US of A, capice?
What a bore to read and respont to your whole diatribe. I will stick to the first two lines. While discriminating and terrorizing, an oppressing and everything you said a minority is not right (at least from that minority’s standpoint, or even a Christian’s standpoint. at least is natural, it follows the laws of nature, including human nature. But what we have now is a minority, a very perverse minority, discriminating and terrorizing and oppressing the rest of us. That is unnatural, that is perverted and that is sick. As someone said before, its now the ducks shooting at the guns! and the laws that allow it.
Ah yes, a mental disorder based on a certain family name (or even a first name)? Very original, indeed. I think that the American Psychiatric Association will feel very, very much obliged: a brand new category for the DSM…….
Marriage is simply a Christian institution set up by organized religion to maintain a secure income. I could care less what the church thinks and Religion has no say in my marriage and never will. Therefore I believe in marriage as a legal contract not a religious one. Lets have Christians married in Christian church’s, Mormons……Muslims…..and Gays get married in Gay churches. Also available to everyone is the Courthouse. Now everyone can fight over what GOD recognizes as a true marriage. I really don’t care if you’re Gay and want to be married, it has NOTHING to do with me. If I allow it to affect me I’m playing GOD and I don’t want any part of that.
Two thumbs up, Mike. It’s exactly my idea as well. Religion should be kept out of this whole marriage business once and for all. And as you so rightfully say, marriage (and its consequences, offspring, that is), has been a fine fat cow for the church for ages. Let’s put an end to that state of affairs, for good. There are courthouses enough around to marry folk, if they think they really must. And the Metropolitan Church, a church catering especially to the gay crowd, seems to be still there. So, the whole issue we’ve been discussing here is, in fact a real non-issue. Period!
Thank you for the compliment. I don’t believe I need to be Gay to stand up for your rights. I believe to be the free American citizen that my forefathers died for requires this position. I have not only the responsibility to honor them, but the duty. I am proud to live in a country that will soon honor your rights.
Oh but you are my dear. If you feel their “pain” you are one of them. That line that you feel obligated to be faithful to our founding fathers is as false as a two penny gold coin. Conceals nothing!
Not my vote.
Hey, Hey, stop the kissing guys. And the government irrupted into the marriage scene when they saw the opportunity to milk that cow too. Let’s follow your line of thought for the sake of the argument. So Marriage is merely a civil contract between two consenting parties, right? Well, then the stated has jurisdiction over its legality, right? Then the people of the state of California has the right to regulate it, right? Well, the people of the state of California by legal and democratic means has enacted that marriage is the union between a man and a woman as we already knew. Let’s accept it, leave it alone and go about our businesses to take care of the poor and the elderly in our communities.
Marriage is a beautiful union between a MAN and WOMAN, who are perfectly designed to come together as one flesh. What God sets together let no man set asunder.
May God bless every marriage. Period!
It now results that teaching your children that marriage is between a man and a woman is bigotry. Wow! How did we get there? Do we need to redefine Gin and tonic? Cofee ans cream? Peanut butter and jelly? Marriage by definition is taking two different things that go well together, Like the elements in a compound. There is certain “chemistry” involved. Mixtures, on the other hand, follow no rules. they can be anything and that is the category same sex marriage falls in. At their best they could be an alloy. (If there is any good in it, that there isn’t).Gays, I know you feel deffensive, but resorting to personal attack has never been a way to win an argument, at least not in the forensics I was taught. Perhaps we need to redefine that too, huh?
Well, you know, STUPIDITY is and will perhaps always be an incurable disease, whether you’re conservative or not. But, as they say, the dogs may bark as loudly as they want, our carvan will move on ever more quietly: we’ve been victorious in California, other states will follow soon. Just you wait and see.
That doesn’t make it right though, and we will continue to opposse it with true and valid arguments, not with sardonic cynicism, whishfull thinking and name calling. By the way, your quote is from Cervantes’ “Don Quixiote.” Did you know that? It’s offensive from you to misappropriate a part of that literature’s monument to characterize your movement.
Yes, it’s from Don Quixiote, so?? As far as I’m concerned this is absolutely fitting. If you conservatives want to keep your faces buried deeply into the world of fifty years ago and earlier, that’s fine with me. But history marches on unrelentingly and will deal you a terrific kick in the butt before long. Prepare yourself for it. Valid arguments you say? Well, I’m still waiting for the first one to appear here on my precious screen. To date I’ve been merely treated to a whole mishmash of endlessly repeated religious twaddle. Is that what you call valid argumentation? Come on, what you need is a fine course on sane and sharp debating. After you’ve committed yourself properly, we’ll talk again.
There is an assortment of sexual preferences, hetrosexual,homosexual,
bisexual and more. Maybe, one group may be more prone to be aggressive and create social problems, but I cannot say which group. What I will say, is that marriage is between a man and a woman. This should not change for many reasons, in my opinion. Civil contracts and how those contracts are legaly enforced by government is another issue. Danger to our children from any group is an issue. The State has a system of reciprocity, where one State must recognize the laws of another. Therefore, the definition of marriage must be Federal, and I suggest Constitutional.
The only political group who currently take issue with Gay marriage seem to be the Tea party. Realistically their not powerful enough to stop it. Too many Republican politicians are seeing that fighting Gay marriage could be detrimental to their election or re election. America’s “silent majority” could care less about the issue and have no time for a politician who would. Gay marriage is going to become legal and will soon become a position candidates exploit for their elections. This isn’t an abortion issue where the American voter seems to be on the fence and our politicians know it.
No it will NEVER EVER become legal. As long as there are Evangelical Christians in America we will fight to make DAMN sure marriage is one man and one woman, the way God and nature intended.
Ha, ha, TAKE BACK AMERICA? It’s the most laughable nonsense I’ve ever encountered. Folk are slowly KILLING their very own children by feeding pure fat junk food day, by day, by day, and all the while they keep whining about abortion. Holy heavens. They say they’re pro-life and without batting an eye they heavily pollute our natural ecological systems, full of LIFE, indispensable for our own survival. Talk bout hypocrisy. But yes, you’re quite right about politicians, they’re the worst opportunists ever born on this sorry planet. Even if they find this whole abortion issue pure hogwash, they’ll continue screaming they’re so fully “pro-life” and against killing so-called innocent unborn beings. AT the same time they’ll gladly start another war somewhere on the planet and let their soldier servants kill tens of thousands of ordinary civilians just as they ordered in Iraq and Afghanistan. The hideous clowns.
You have an interesting way of agreeing with me.
Ha, I can hardly stop laughing. You’ve made my day. The point, I think is, that Conservative America is largely living in the past, the time of the cold war, when it was all so crystal clear: America ruled the West, The Soviet Union was the Master (or Mistress, if you like) of the other side. But now, in the 21st century it’s all over, definitely. China, India, Brazil have already surpassed our precious US of A, economically, anyhow. It’s really like Rome, or more precisely the Roman Empire in its final days. The proud Romans could not believe, let alone accept, that hordes of primitive barbarians, i.e. representatives of dirty, stinking Germanic Tribes were pushing at Rome’s gate and appeared to be very successful. But alas, it was the truth and nothing but the truth. Rome was in rapid DECLINE and so is America now, whatever you want, whatever you do. It’s all about the LAW OF MATERIAL EXISTENCE. Just as all living beings have a limited life cycle, so have the so-called Earthly Superpowers. Remember what happened to the Spanish Empire, the British Empire, the Empire of the Soviet Union: all crumbled away like toddlers’ sand castles. I’m very sorry for you but it’s America’s turn now. You may want to take it all back, but, honestly, try to “take back” a bag of air, open it and see what happens. Good luck, mate…….
The point is that the GOP is recognizing that Gay marriage is no longer the divided issue once thought.
A true American patriot will never support gay marriage. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Dave, regarding your opinion of Marriage, you are either as queer as a mountain billy goat, brain dead or both. Real Marriage is the Union of One Man and One Woman as ordained by our God, no matter what your Religion!!! You Queers can’t stand it because you know that your sick sexual activities are sinful as well as Christians do. I could care less what you do in your bedrooms and would probably throw up if I saw it but nontheless, if you don’t try to stick it in my face by trying to force me to accept you and your partner as a “Normal” Married Couple it’s your business not mine. You’re NOT normal, you’re QUEER and living in SIN so keep your mouth shut about it, DON’T TELL and I WON’T ASK!!!
That’s what’s so amazing about you so-called evangelical Christians, don’t you think? You keep babbling about sin and spluttering your would-be moral indignation about the “gay agenda”, but all you seem to be interested in is our “bedroom culture”. As if nothing else is of any importance when two men or two women who fancy each other meet up for a leisure-time encounter. No deep-reaching conversation, no sports, no music, no cooking, really nothing else. Well, ever heard of the term PROJECTION? If not, google it up and be surprised. As it is said in Matthew 7:3, You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye..
So, don’t you think it’s really you who’s so hopelessly obsessed with sex, you can’t imagine two people who greatly appreciate each other’s beauty, may solely come together for a nice game of chess or a night of fine four hand piano playing? Who’s the sick pervert here then???
You are the hypocrite Freddie. Here is what the NEW TESTAMENT says about homosexuality:
Romans 1:26–28 “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,1 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
The Bible makes this perfectly clear that this is NOT allowed.
If we “legalize” this perversion whats next: the legalization of pedophiles and those who want to have sex with farm animals. I say not only no but HELL NO. We do NOT need America to become some modern day Sodom and Gomorrah here. If these queers want to be in the troops, I say put them in take the straights out and let the Islamics have their way. In Islam homosexuality is a capital offence punishable by death. Queerdom does NOT happen in nature there for it should NOT happen in mankind. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve or Amanda and Eve. There is also a FEMALE version of the man boy free love association.
What the heck do I care about (“St”) Paul’s bigotry? He must have been sexually very frustrated chap, an ugly kobold, who, probably, compensated for his frustrations (a.o. his epilepsy just as well) by committing himself to an extremely rabid type of religious fanaticism. He was a mentally very disturbed man, a first rate trouble maker whose early developmental history must have been full blown mess, indeed. So, out with that total idiot.
And, “queerdom” does not happen in nature? Read up on your stuff “American Patriot”, google up the sentence HOMOSEXUALITY IN ANIMALS” and be prepared for a plethora of articles and books on this subject. Queerdon, as you call it, is present everywhere in nature. Go educate yourself properly for a change!!!!! It’ll do your so-called patriotism a whole lot of good……..
God does NOT create homosexual animals. Animals are NOT homosexual. Scientists who think the contrary are homosexuals themselves and want to show that their perverted, deprived lifestyle is natural when it is not. God told his created order to be fruitful and multiply and homosexuals can NOT do that. Most scientist are atheists if I remember correctly therefor they do NOT have God in their life like you do.
Oh Yes, by the way, these highly civilized (radical) Muslims aren’t solely fond of homo’s, they also dearly love all INFIDELS, especially Christians and Jews. So, try to enter one of those glorious Islamic countries (Iran or Saudi Arabia, particularly) with a couple of bibles or Torahs or whatever you call your holy scriptures and see what happens. They won’t dream of burning your precious books and, best of all, they’ll praise your courage and give you a fine tour of their magnificent prisons and torture chambers. Rest assured. Bon voyage ma cherie……….
WELL, as in the Forest Gump movie, Stupid is as stupid does. Marriage is an institution between a man and a woman, to compliment each other, grow, nuture each other, procreate. If Gay men want to get married, they should not call it marriage just a partnership as in a regular business partnership, that is what it is anyway, how many of them stay together anyway as in business partnerships, they most always split up. Why should American Tax payers pay for their benefits, let them get their own health insurance policy as a business does. You cant fix stupid, and a person cannot argue or reason with closed mindsets, Absolutes are absolutes, situational ethics now mainstream thought is garbage to push the agenda of the more powerful of the two or more in conflicting ideology. Summarizing again, Marriage is between a man and a woman period, anything else is a partnership. And I do not care who disagrees with me. I agree with
MsAmericanPatriot’s comments above.
I’ve said it a million times before, but ok I’ll just say it one more time: MARRIAGE IS A CULTURAL INSTITUTION, not a natural one. Simply because all the “objectives” of marriage can be perfectly fulfilled outside that illustrious type of human partnership: mutual growth, nurturance, procreation, all the points you mention. I myself have several heterosexual friends who’re not married, but are living together with their partners in splendid peace and harmony and raise their children as creatively and decently as you can ever imagine. And, so do numerous gay couples, married or not: they grow together and raise their adopted children as responsibly and lovingly as their “straight” brothers and sisters. I really don’t see any problem here.
And yes, talk about divorce rates: in 2008 the marriage rate (amongst heterosexual couples) amounted to 7.1 (per 1000 inhabitants), whereas the divorce rate was 3.5. That’s a whopping 50% for Chrissakes. Can you imagine that? Especially the fate of all those thousands of poor children torn between the greedy interests of their loving mommy and daddy? Just contemplate this. So, maybe marriage in general is nothing but a hopeless anachronism, a leftover from the Middle Ages, we should shove into an International Museum somewhere in DC, London or Paris, as quickly as possible.
if somone is Gay and they want to live together more power to them. I don’t believe that it’s alright for them to get married, I’m not an avid church goer but I do remember a passage that said “men shall not lay with men and women shall not lay with women” It’s just unnatural to me and by the sounds alot of other people. The government however doesn’t listen to the people when we all say were not for GAY marriage and they pass the O.K. bill. All I can say is that they will have to answer to GOD not me
well OK Bambam, suppose these men and these women don’t lay, but SIT or STAND with each other, would that be perfectly alright??? Jeez!!!
In the Bible it says that “God will confound the intellectuals.” Well, that point is well made in this chat room.
Yeah HOWIE, that’s an incredibly convenient way of perpetuating your closed-mindedness as well as silencing any strong, straightforward criticism, isn’t it? So typical of you conservative Christians!
Howard, the Bible also says that there will come a time when “right will be considered wrong and wrong will be considered right.” Yes, we are seeing prophesies fulfilled. Stand strong in the Lord.
Ah, sister Mari, welcome back. You’ve really made my day, finally. So, if I’ve got it right (pun not intended….) what you conservatives can’t stop calling wrong, i.e. homosexuality and gay marriage, will one day be considered completely right, right? Fantastic sis, I just can’t stop rejoicing in the Lord (and in you, of course) Thank you soooo much for this incredibly comforting revelation…………..
You’ll have to redo your point of reference…the Bible. Your a bit late to want to get in on the revelation.
Let’s just reminisce on the confounding part.
For those that are for gay marriage, think of what happen when the parents have passed on. Usually the problems of childeren that are raised in such enviorment comes much later, even in grand kids. And who wrote the bible ? God or men of God? And who wrote the constitution ? men with Gods help mmm? funny how women or blacks are not included in any of these written documents. I guss if they were written into these documents as equals their would be Peace Right now. It is important to think of what the future will hold after we have passed on. Just a thought for the day (:
And you will have to reread my post regarding this whole “confounding” bit. You see, this line of ” anti-intellectual” reasoning very neatly characterizes the Church’s policy throughout the history of Christianity (and other monotheistic religions, such as Islam, just as well, btw). The main dictum being: don’t think for yourself, we (the Church) will do that for you. After all we’re the absolute experts on morality, cosmology, social politics, etc, etc, etc. The bible is our “inerrant” guide and we’re the ones with the full authority to interpret its contents. But alas, as the Church lost more and more of its power and credibility over the centuries, the argument concerning the “authority” of scripture largely – or even completely – lost its persuasiveness. Remember the story of Galileo Galilei, the famous Renaissance astronomer? The man who had the guts to contend that it wasn’t the sun that orbited the earth, but precisely the reverse should be considered correct? Remember how that poor man was harassed and intimidated by the clerical authorities, just because he dared to challenge their totally nonsensical position on basic astronomy? Remember how poor Charles Darwin and his followers were scorned and ridiculed by Christian fanatics just over a century ago? And now (post) Galilean astronomy and (post)Darwinian biology and philosophy of evolution have been proven correct on virtually every significant point. And I could go on and on and on about our Western intellectual tradition confounding scriptural mythology . So, talk about the ones being (and having been) confounded here: not the intellectuals but quite the contrary, you the religious dummies.
Just the opposite—Scripture continues to confound the unbeliever. You have NO ability to discern. Your eyes and heart are blinded to the Truth.
Waiting for the next long-winded empty monologue…
Think carefully about my words:
Since ‘marriage’ is defined upon its origin, by it’s Creator, by definition these creatures will NEVER, nor can they EVER be ‘married!”
Call their relationship, (sic), whatever you will, but “married” they can not be! No law or regulation of man can re-define an actual definition of anything!
You surely know how to (generously) entertain your forum mates, yer fellow-posters, Mari. Anyway, I’m still waiting to be confounded, but as I’ve got a whole lot of years to go, I’ll just keep up the good spirits.
Oh, and a tiny riddle for Mr Wayne: who the hell was Adam’s best man at that very first wedding party? Curious to learn about the snacks and drinks served as well. Aren’t you?
Homosexuality is a sin plain and simple, not a religious sin or against any church but against the most high. Sin is why we are all facing death ultimately. We have a moral obligation to our heavenly father to worship him in truth and spirit. It is a nieve person that doesn’t recognize that the word “sodomy” didn’t endure all these ages, so as to serve as a reminder, how god will ultimately judge those who do not repent of this sin. (Sodom & Gommora)
Sometimes I really wonder (and in fact even despair) about the bible beaters’ intelligence here. We have already extensively discussed the notion that THE STORY ABOUT THE DEMOLITION OF SODOM & GOMORAH HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY PER SE. There is a reasonable amount of evidence for this contention in the bible itself. Thus, you’ll find a “HETEROSEXUAL PARALLEL to that story in Judges 19: 22-29, Old Testament. Look it up in your bible.
So, these stories really concern (SEXUAL) ABUSE and SEXUAL INSATIABLITY as well as a gross LACK OF HOSPITABILITY. Numerous scholars have pointed to, particularly, the latter aspect. Now, the term sodomy is still alive and well, precisely because of the TABOO ON ANAL INTERCOURSE in general (which, as you may know, isn’t a prerogative of our gay brothers at all!!! If I’m correctly informed heterosexual anal activities are still illegal in a few States here in America, as ludicrous as it may sound). So, forget about the whole nonsense regarding the danger of legalizing gay marriage, because your Lord might be very eager to bless us with a fair bit of fire and brimstone if we endorse gay behavior and culture. If He exists at all, he’s got much better things to do, such as mitigating the fate of the poor and the sick, and protecting children against the vile hands of pastors, priests, bishops and nuns. Have a nice day.
Homosexuals were in Sodom and Gomorah as well. The welcome committee for the village were MEN who wanted to get to know the MALE visitors that came to see a particular resident of the village about getting out of town. When the Bible uses the terms getting to know someone it means SEX. The home owner even offered his two virgin daughters and that did change the mobs mind. They wanted the male visitors PERIOD.
some of the words used to describe homosexuality in various bible translations are…. perversion,abomination,confusion……etc.
how did we ever get to this point…………..by discarding God’s word
Jim also says;
psychiatry and psychology experts of the 70′s, had it right!
Namely that homosexuality is a mental disorder which should be treated with therapy and medications unless an individual can bring themselves to the Lord.
You may be waiting for the revelation of muddle-mindedness but it is immensely evident with every word you post that you are already there.
Wisdom only comes from God. But since you think your brain/intellect comes by evolutionary means, I bet you think your intellect derives from an amoeba or protozoa or the like….
That makes no sense to me but we’re all entitled to our opinion””
my comments however are based on God’s word….not my own wisdom.
Just one point folks: you keep talking about “god’s word”. But the question I’ve been putting to you for months and months already has still not been answered and that is : HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU BE SO SURE THAT YOUR BIBLE REALLY, REALLY, REALLY COMES FROM A GOD OR GOD OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THE ENTITY YOU SAY YOU WORSHIP?? Please tell me. Why would the Mahabaratha, or the Popul Vuh, or the Fine Tao Scripts not be inspired by a “Divine Being”? If such an entity exists at all, that is. Please tell me. You think your scriptures are the ONLY true spiritual message, allegedly delivered to mankind? On what grounds can you ever make such an absurd claim? It’s your narrow-mindedness, your conceit and your provincialism that’ll keep you in the dark for all eternity. Think about it!
Good question.
I would need an entire book to answer it. suffice to say…..I’ll briefly touch onto prophecy…..once again….is the bible really the word of God?
Did you know that the very date of the death of Jesus was predicted in the book of Daniel approx six hundred years before he was even born. That is only one of many many prophecies fulfilled. It is referred to as the “seventy weeks of years prophecy”.
I am happy to say that I have been a Bible student for 40 years and it has proven itself to me many times over. My suggestion to you would be to begin your own study………it will amaze you
sincerely in christ, Jim
The trouble Jim and the simple fact of the matter is that the so-called prophecies you’re talking may all amount to merely pseudo-original information. For the quite obvious reason that we have NO INDEPENDENT MATERIAL corroborating the notion that it was really Daniel who at the time when the book named after him was allegedly written, did in fact write up that stuff. Most important of all, for all we know the “data” included in that book may have been unscrupulously edited at a much later date. But let me be straight with you: I’m neither a biblical scholar nor a historian. I’m a clinical psychologist, trained within quite a different sort of academic community. I think what we need, you as well as myself is to read honestly critical studies by scholars not affiliated with a particular type of “creed”, i.e. neither obvious Christians, nor staunch atheists. Hard to come by I gather. But ok, I’ve got all the time available in this world, so I’ll keep searching. Just half an hour ago I found a whole list books critically examining the claims and contents of your bible, e.g. Randel Helms and John Loftus. So, I’ll start reading my eyes out about your prophecy bit as critically as possible. I must say, however that I have an ocean deep mistrust against all so-called religious prophecy, be it Christian, Hindu, Mayan or from whatever origin. I’m a academician, after all: I tend to believe only that which I have thoroughly studied and analyzed for myself. I hope I’ll fully enjoy those fiercely critical studies.
Sorry again for the crazy typos.
Thank you Fred.
but please don’t misunderstand……I have seen many very inspiring statements in the various religious books of all creeds….but by the same token….I’ve seen some great statements by brilliant poets and statesmen….but I’ve never seen, in any writings the amazing prophecies and their fulfillment in any other book but the Bible of the true God of Israel. Daniel said that the purpose of his prophecy (seventy weeks of years) was to stamp it with the seal of God upon vision and prophet, (Dan 9:24). That is to say, God inspired at it’s fulfilment.
sincerely in Christ, JIM
But you still haven’t addressed the point I made concerning the trustworthiness of these “prophecies” in regard to three issues: 1) The authorship of these texts. How and by whom was it established that the person you call Daniel did indeed formulate this prediction. Is there a reliable, independent source who can vouch for the authenticity of the authorship. Related to this point is the question about the DATE OF AUTHORSHIP. How can we dependably ascertain that the text as we find it in the bible dates from the fifth century BC indeed. How can we be certain that we’re dealing with an original script here instead of a concoction delivered many centuries later? Then, of course, there is 3) the point concerning the EXACT DATE of Jesus’ alleged crucifixion and subsequent death. By whom have these events been originally documented? Have we got any official (and properly carbon dated) material reliably indicating the year and hour of interest to us here??? Well I wish you much luck, but I don’t think you’ll find such rock hard data presented anywhere in this world.
You see, believers are very quick to accept information exhibiting even a fair amount of “face validity”. By face validity we mean APPARENT truthfulness, truthfulness the layman will readily find enough to rely on. But the true academician isn’t that easily satisfied, or fooled, to be sure. They will want to check and countercheck and recheck the validity of their material before presenting it as trustworthy to their peers. Try to write up this whole Daniel and Jesus story for an official academic periodical, send it off to the editors, wait for the peer reviews and be prepared for a fine surprise.
So, I’m sorry Jim, but you’ll have to do much better than present a so-called prophecy as absolute truth, just because it neatly checks out with a story about Jesus, included in the very same bible. To me it’s a nice bedtime story to lull you sweetly asleep, but it’s got absolutely nothing to do with “The Truth”, I regret to have to say.
Btw there are many more “prophecies” about Jesus’ mission shoved into your bible of even more dubious or even ludicrous quality, such as the one presented in Zachary 9:9. But maybe I’ll go into its merits at a later date. Have a nice evening.
Here we go again…. its Zachariah not Zachary. Setting the accuracy spelling bar is hard for you, I know. You have difficulty spelling my name right….it’s Marilyn not Mari. Frederick, so sorry to reveal to you that it’s your responsibility to prove your claims. You are the one that is dismissing the Bible as fallacy–then prove it with hard evidence.
The Bible itself declares that fulfilled prophecy is the unmistakable proof of God’s inspiration of the Bible. Anything less than 100% fulfilled prophecy was the test for passing God’s inspiration to man.
The book of Ezekiel speaks of the rebirth of Israel (Ezekiel’s writings were about 580 B.C.) and does it to the very day that Israel was reborn in 1948, May 15th. I wonder how a humble clinical psychologist might do with prophetic utterances? Its kind of complicated but checking in with an eschatology expert might help you see the facts more clearly.
Maybe Jim has some helpful insight….
The burden of proof regarding the bible’s validity and trustworthiness rests with you, Mari, not with me. That’s what true academic procedure is about: refuting the null hypothesis, meaning, your claim to truth and trustworthiness is completely worthless until proven otherwise.
Furthermore, I really don’t care a DAMN about your opinion on my name spelling. (REmember: WHAT’S IN A NAME???, SISTER MARI !! Besides your spelling of the “prophet’s” name is incorrect as well. It’s Zechariah and not Zachariah, officially. What’s even more: the whole point is so totally IRRELEVANT and beside the point, it only brought a hearty laugh to my lips, honestly.
And now to the point of interest here: your precious biblical predictions. To be honest, I find (most of) them hopelessly tedious and dubious at the same time. Take the issue of the restoration of the Jewish nation. Let me cit the Ezekiel’s words
(Pastor Bill Newman writes),
Probably the most well known of Ezekiel’s prophecies about the rebirth of Israel is found in Ezekiel 37. This chapter tells of the vision of the valley of dry bones, in which the Prophet saw Israel scattered and dead as a nation, buried far and wide in Gentile lands. The Prophet then sees the bones coming together as skeletons. The skeletons are then clothed with muscle and sinew and the corpses are then given breath to be resurrected to life as a mighty army. It was a vision of a miracle, the rebirth of a nation, a miracle that is coming to pass before our own eyes, in our own days.”
Is this an instance, Mari, of what you call a genuine “Prediction”? Come on, this is totally ridiculous. First off, the Jews had been taken into exile on numerous occasions (by the Assyrians and the Babylonians, for instance), so, probably hundreds of thousands of Jews were already scattered and settled (in countries) throughout Asia (and Africa as well). What could our Ezekie (there we go again) do other than WISH for them to return to the so-called promised land and use God (and God’s would-be planning) as a legitimization for his wishful musing and day dreaming, eh??? This whole Ezzie passage has absolutely nothing to do with a restoration of Israel as a modern NATION-STATE. ( And, of course, Ezzie neatly presents the exact date of restoration, doesn’t he?????).
But on a more serious note: in fact this whole “restoration” has been nothing more than the fulfillment of Hitler’s dream. The Nazis wanted the Jews out of Europe in general and Germany in particular; Stalin and his mates persecuted them mercilessly all over the Soviet Union. Not to mention the fact of the pogroms from late Antiquity on. No gal, your so-called prophecies do not the least impress me. And, oh yes, the restoration of your Israel has brought a whole lot of peace and safety to the Jews and their offspring in that holiest of lands……. The Arabs (especially the Palestinians) adore them sooo much, it brings tears to my eyes to contemplate it all for a sec…….. Prophecy fulfilled!!!!
So Mari, that prophecy bit of yours is a real joke to me, a total waste of my precious time. For me SPIRITUALITY is absolutely not about Divine Promises, Predictions, Prophecies, or whatever you want to call them. No, spirituality to me means feeling inspired, comforted, uplifted, respected as a human being for what and who I am. That’s what the Tao (re)presents as far as I’m concerned. For genuine Taoists it doesn’t matter a hoot whether I’m straight or gay, white, yellow or black, a believer or a non-believer. No, the Tao presents its tales and aphorisms just calmly and straightforwardly. If I feel warmed and inspired whilst reading them, fine, if not just as fine. That’s the spirituality I admire and want to keep in my heart and mind as a precious gift. Think about it, Mari.
Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself , is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.
Have a good day Frederick.
DEAR FRED,
iT IS REALLY YOUR OWN BURDEN TO PROVE OR DISPROVE THE
BIBLE. iF YOU FIND IT LACKING, YOU HAVE MY PRAYERS BECAUSE i DO NOT FIND IT TO BE SO. i DO KNOW, HOWEVER, THAT MUCH OF THE
BIBLE HAS BEEN VALIDATED AS AUTHENTIC BY RECENT ARCHEOLOGICAL FINDS SUCH AS THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS. oNCE AGAIN, TO TRULY UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF God, one must be humble and teachable (open-minded). If you lose out on this book—you have missed out on what even atheists refer to as a book of literary genious.sincerely in Christ, JIM
Oh, but let’s get this straight once and for all, Jim: I most certainly acknowledge the bible’s special literary merit. That, however, is not the point here. The crucial point here concerns the whole body of DOGMATIC DICTA. There’s an entire host of claims contained not only within the bible itself, but throughout orthodox Christian commentary just as well, as you may very well know. Now, encountering such claims in nine out of ten cases I feel an incredible amount of irritation or anger even. And this is mostly because of the FULL BLANKET OF COMPULSIVE ABSOLUTISM COVERING much of what I find in the bible itself as well as writings about the bible. And it puts me off enormously.
But you know, gradually I’ve come to think that in this debate about the truthfulness of the bible (or whatever religious creed for that matter), there will never be any definite answers rendering one party the “great winner”. Arguments will keep bouncing back and forth; a full and pitiful waste of time and energy. Precisely because there is an very strong psychological undercurrent present, motivating both parties to cling tenaciously to their point of view. Our convictions are our babies; we won’t kill them for the world or even everlasting life, of which we’ve got no proof whatsoever anyway. But the most important point, perhaps, is the fact that this whole activity of trying to “validate” biblical information (e.g. through the interpretation of archeological material, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls) is highly dubious at best. You may quickly find yourself in a totally circular situation, simply because the material itself must be validated and found worthy of the job, i.e. suitable as a means of “objective” substantiation. Now, in fact I’ve found a website nicely portraying the problems one may encounter when trying to examine the trustworthiness of biblical material by way of the Scrolls. Please read the site’s text and be enlightened and shocked. Good night.
Oh, sorry, forgot to send the site’s URL. Here it is,
http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/cargill2_08261.shtml
hello again fred.
my last blog on this is as follows:
the apoltle said “prove to yourselves the perfect and acceptable will of God”. and incidentally, I do not belong to any org. ism. or anything else—–I am a completely independent bible student because satan is said (by John) to have the entire world deceived.
sincerely in Christ JIM
Dear Fred,
I absolutely love the website. He is a worthy adversary. I’ll probably read every article. thanks much.
Sincerely in Christ, JIM
ps: I love athiests and agnostics—because they haven’t fallen for the fake God that christendom has put forth….and they make the best bible scholars….that is ….when they finally come around.
Ah, very fine, Jim. I’m glad you enjoyed the contents of that site. Fine scholar, huh? This is the stuff I’ve always found a sheer delight to study. Alas I won’t have too much time to examine all the articles for a while, not until the Haloween holidays. We’ll see. Good luck, have a great day
There are some in here who believe that by rationalizing their sin (homosexuality) it will somehow excuse them from that sin. They would be the ones who, if living in Jesus’ day, would have taken part in killing Jesus, either in thought or in deed. We on the sane side must not be afraid of them or their words. Remember…”Do not be afraid though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions. Do not be afraid of what they say or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious house. You must speak My words to them, whether they listen, for they are rebellious”. Don’t be derailed by fierce opposition to the truth. Rather, serve God faithfully and hope in Him. Our “Commander and Chief” overcame the world with overpowering love that neutralizes paralyzing fear. We too can love others with the love that conquers all. And pray that they fear Him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw them into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear Him.
Amen.
Well to tell you the plain truth BEHOLD I’d rather dive right into the blazing fires of hell than be pushed to share eternity with Bigoted Idiots full of Hate and Sadistic, Medieval ideas about the (possible) fate of human souls. You say you worship a GOD of LOVE or rather even a GOD WHO IS LOVE and all you can fantasize about is so-called eternal punishment for those who claim their civil rights and their freedom of self expression. Now, who is the out and out sick pervert here?
Luckily the vast majority of us gays won’t let ourselves be fooled and blackmailed by you nutcases anyway. This is the 21st century, babe. Keep this firmly and deeply screwed into your pea-sized brain. AMEN……
Your decision is tallied, your chosen fate spoken clearly from your own lips. No more be said….Goodbye.
Fortunately, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is merciful and forgiving. Even forgiving the most wicked among us and casting our sins into the depths of the sea, and as far as the east is from the west. Remembering our sins no more. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. Its a matter of ALL human beings making their heart right with God.
God IS love, love is patient (tolerant), love is long-suffering (patient), check it out. Worldly love is conditional—as long as you satisfy me, I’ll love you. God’s love is unconditional in that He loves us no matter what we’ve done. A perfect God, a perfect Heaven where no sin is allowed. We must be redeemed by the blood of the lamb to enter Heaven. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Christ was and is the perfect lamb (sacrifice). No one has to live an eternity in their sin—separated from God. But it is everyone’s individual decision. You either accept or reject God’s gift of salvation.
I would hardly say this is intolerant or narrow-minded. This is the most loving message in the world.
And all said without calling anyone names.
But my dear, as faar as I’ve been able to discern the love of the God YOU say you serve, is JUST AS CONDITIONAL, meaning that as long as you do exactly as the writers of your “holy” books decree, God will grant you a fine abode up their in the sky. But otherwise you’ll just be dumped into the eternal pit of doom. Now tell me, is that what you call “unconditional” love? Come on, be sensible, even for once in your life: your rhetoric is so full of silly contradictions, the only conclusion I can come up with is that you’re totally losing it as soon as you start quoting from your bible or begin to speak in those proverbial scriptural tongues. You know, the more I read posts such as yours and those delivered by the other bible beaters here, the more my conviction grows that your rhetoric has absolutely and totally nothing to do with SPIRITUALITY at all. I’ve been hearing such language for decades already and it’s done completely nothing for me. It hasn’t ever brought me even the tiniest feeling of comfort and it sounds very, very, very INSINCERE to me. Once again, I read the Taoists and I’m filled with joy and optimism and I get the feeling that these guys are speaking directly from their heart. No pompous self-righteousness, no claims to exclusive and absolute Truth. The grinding irritation I feel when reading your stuff, is totally absent when I sit to read my Tao-stories. It’s real, genuine wisdom I’m absorbing and I’m delighted, time and again. A miracle, huh? Yeah, you bet it is. Master Osho, by the way, is one of my favorites just as well. Although I keep my critical faculties rolling sharply when I read his stories. Recommended. Have a nice night.
Time to close the chapter on your Bible bashing decades long expedition Frederick, its old and wrinkled and no one is listening. You have no right to drag anyone else to hell along with you unless you’re on a mission from the Devil himself. You need to cozy up with dear old Tao and meditate until your end of days since it seems to satisfy you.
But I wonder if on your death bed you will cry out to your Tao god or to Jesus. Time will tell.
Jesus conquered death on the cross and paid each believer’s penalty. Bringing direct fellowship with God. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ.
Again its simple and an invitation to all but not everyone will be born-again. Jesus said you must be born-again. There will be many who simply refuse against all love and evidence, stubbornly refuse the good news of the Gospel. Yes, Christians know that, but never give up praying for the family members or friends.
The Love of God transcends all.
When I read posts such as yours here, I realize, very strongly, the true meaning of the word brain-washing, which perhaps should be replaced by brain dyeing. After all that’s the way dye works, or rather some types of dye do: however intensively you soak your fabric in clean water or whatever other type of liquid you choose, you won’t conquer the potency of that damned substance. And, of course it’s very cheap, I know, but there’s a certain word that rhymes very elegantly with that beautiful word dye…..
You know, to me your cynical and cruel portrayal of my possible deathbed situation, very nicely illustrates the basic social attitude of so many fanatic believers. It strongly resembles the way agents of totalitarian regimes address their adversaries: ah, wait till so and so (you name ‘em, Kim Yung-Il, Mugabe, Lukashenko [of Belorussia], etc, etc, get their hands on you). No Marilyn it’s not God’s Love that shines through your bible, it’s tyranny and self-aggrandizement dominating tes that book in my eyes. I think the philosophers and anthropologists who say that God is nothing more than the result of man’s tendency to project his own longing for absolute power into the idea of a so-called supreme being, are absolutely right. No wonder, indeed, most religions (especially the monotheistic ones) are so conspicuously MALE DOMINATED. The bible (and the Koran perhaps even more so) is so full of stories depicting god’s or Allah’s incredible lust for power and barbaric subjugation, you’d think those writers must have had ideas concerning the mentality of many a Middle-Eastern tyrant firmly implanted into their rigid b rain.
Oh yes, for your information Taoism is NOT A RELIGION, but a philosophy of life, which is something different altogether. You won’t find any gods or saviors there, or whatever you care to call your biblical soap actors, thank goodness. And, did you know that soldiers dying on a field of honor don’t cry out for god, but, yes?, for their mothers! That’s what. Quite different “chocolate”, eh?
you say folk aren’t listening?? That’s what YOU want to believe, isn’t it? Believe me, they’re listening, but they simply don’t know HOW to respond. Well, you are listening alright, anyhow. Besides, your Christian community’s teeming with ostriches, constantly gurgling the same boring scriptural passages, whilst the world all around is changing very, very rapidly. Well, happy dreaming. Au revoir.
There is no greater love….that Christ laid down His life.
THE LOVE OF GOD TRANSCENDS ALL!
Couple of days ago I was browsing the spirituality department of a nice little bookstore in my neighborhood when I happened upon a very interesting, recently published book about the nature of the phenomenon of religion. I didn’t buy it yet, just a bit too expensive ($30, but I read the preface and was surprised to learn that this whole thing called must have been around for some 50.000 years already. Can you imagine, fifty odd millennia. Now consider the fact that according to Christians God (the “one true god”, as they contend), only revealed him/herself about four millennia ago when Abraham set out to find that special region god seems to have reserved for him and his loved ones!!! Well, why should we accept this wide, wide gap to be a bare, rock hard fact? Just a coincidence that god decided to wake up at last and let his voice be heard loud and crystal clear to that particular old man somewhere in the Middle East??? Oh, and don’t forget that homo sapiens, according to the vast majority of biologists around the globe nowadays, was already busy polluting our precious planet about a 100.000 years ago. So, I’ve been wondering not only about the privileged position of our dearest Abe and his family, but also about that damned time gap.
Well to tell you the truth folks, I don’t believe a single word of that entire Abe story or whole host of other stories there in yer bible. If God really exists and Abe has ever seen the light of day about four millennia ago, don’t you think He would have made an effort to let himself be known much, much, much earlier. Maybe somewhere in China or the Andes or Turkey, or Africa even??? I, for one, certainly thinks He would’ve. But, who am I…….
Anyway dear folks, who cares. This delightful inconsistency won’t rob me of even two seconds of my sweet sleeping time tonight. Believe me. Bonne nuit.
Actually God spoke to Adam and Eve approximately 6,000 years ago. To whom are you referring to 50,000 years ago. Like you said yourself, there is no prehistoric documentation?
Try studying the Bible….
Ha, God spoke to Adam and Eve? Yeah, IN YOUR SWEET DREAMS! All purely primitive , idyllic mythology my dear Marilyn. I THOUGHT YOU’D HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT by now. I’m very curious, though, to learn more about your proof for the HISTORICAL REALITY of such a phenomenon as Paradise and its inhabitants. And, wanna establish the reality of a God who allegedly fabricated it all and is still enjoying his seventh day retirement period? Don’t even think of trying. (Maybe he’s already re-instated the whole circus for kicks, for his diversion, so to speak, on another planet within or even outside of our precious universe?). Well, who knows? Who cares? Anyway, I gather you’re still listening happily to that nice, little old first grade teacher, aren’t you???
And, yes, of course there is no KNOWN documentation concerning the origins of religious practice so many millennia ago. But, there is a wealth of archeological material available supporting the HYPOTHESIS that religious practices find their origin in primitive societies existing about even 70,000 to 80,000 years ago. I’ve got a beautiful article here for you to read about this matter. Here goes,
http://www2.selu.edu/Academics/Faculty/mrossano/recentpubs/Springer%20chapter.pdf
Enjoy. Oh yes, finally, you say. STUDY THE BIBLE? Ha, ha, I’ve got more than enough endlessly more interesting stuff to read these days, such as several tomes of commentary on the original Tao writings. In fadct, I just finished reading Wayn Dyer’s book of commentary and found it interesting, although not the most literary sophisticated material available, I’d say. But OK. To tell you the truth, a fair part of the Old Testament I find despicably violent and nauseating and most of the New Testament is incredibly boring, really. So, no, no`; no biblical stuff for me anymore, I’ve had my fair share.
Frederick you surely should know by now that I’m not going to spoon feed you doctrinal truth more than I have to because I know you can’t assimilate the data. You are trying to make sense of facts that you can’t understand. And refusing step 1 nullifies the rest of the Gospel for you unfortunately. You continue to make a fool of yourself with every entry. And your diversionary tactics to avoid the homosexual topic is very telling, as you should very well know being a clinical psychologist. Insults, such as you include in your posts really are much to do about nothing and again reveal how caught up you are in squelching the messenger and not the message as you know it to be true. Your struggling with the facts of a loving God who will hold you accountable for your sin.
Struggling with facts about a “Loving God”?
What “Loving God”, pray tell. Well, I gather you’ve stopped reading newspapers, you never watch TV or listen to the radio, so, of course, you duly enjoy the incredibly beautiful world we’re living in now: No wars going on in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Tibet, etc, etc, anymore. No, your God has taken care of ‘em all quite neatly and beautifully. Kept his promise that we would be living in a “perfect world”, soon after our Jesus had flown out to his abode high up there in the skies……. Oh yes, lest I forget: no more diseases and no more racial or sexual discrimination around, any more. It’s been taken care of.
Ah, but wait, sorry, I’m so totally wrong once again. There’s a fantastic kingdom waiting up there for you where you won’t stop waving yer palm leaves and yer rose-buds and vanilla pods and whatnot. Great, eh? Pity, nobody’s ever returned from that place for even a few minutes, to tell us everything about its unbelievable magnificence.
Oh no, wrong again: A fair number guys and gals have been telling us stories about their NDE’s. Absolutely tantalizing, I must agree. Only trouble is it’s all still about NEAR Death occurrences and encounters, practically all of them absolutely positive, So, where’s your hell, by the way? Yes, and those experiences only lasted a few meager minutes. Pity. So now we’d like to hear about the REAL, REAL and FULL Death experiences, ‘first hand’, from all those visitors with return tickets …………
Anyway, Marilyn, the trouble with you (and your ilk) is, you don’t address the critical points thrown at you. For instance, you didn’t in any way go into the issue I raised about religion as such having been found to exist tens of thousands of years already. You’re still running around in endless circles with that insane fairy tale about Adam and Eve in Eden. Well me and my mates we’re REBELS WITH A CAUSE; we’re not buying this tribal nursery room BS anymore. Did you even care to consult the websites I mentioned in my previous posts? No, you didn’t, because you’re too gutless to admit that most, if not all of the biblical stories you so highly revere, are nothing but Kindergarten stuff, nice bedtime tales to keep your profound existential desperation neatly at bay.
Ah yes, about my alleged “diversionary tactics” concerning homosexuality? Please clarify yourself, because you’ve really lost me there. As far as I know we’ve spent many, many months discussing the topic and I really wouldn’t know what more there is to add to that subject. But here again, either you lack the necessary reading skills to understand the points I made, or you suffer from a hopeless case of “denialitis”, if I may say so. Make an appointment with one of my colleagues in you area. I’m sure they’ll be quite able to help you out nicely wit your problem. Fine dreams!
Rest assured I’m very informed and read incessantly about current events. I engage in deep and technical discussions with one of my children who is a computer scientist and works in cutting edge subjects. I grew up, listening to, attending seminars and discussing scientific topics with my father who worked for a high level government agency…..there you have it. I’ve heard a lot of arguments and debates and sorry to say yours just don’t cut it.
You like to lead your reader on multiple tangents that contradict within your rebuttal…its a bore really.
Well, I’m waiting very patiently for examples of those “multiple tangents” that contradict each other”, as you say. You’ve had ample opportunity btw to come up with really intelligent counterarguments to my line of reasoning. But in fact you present nothing, absolutely nothing of even the slightest relevance to our debate here. All I encounter is a whole heap of biblical nonsense and traditional, infantile rhetoric and rambling really. For instance about God talking to Adam 6000 years ago, Adam supposedly being the first human individual, created a mere six millennia ago. What a laugh! And you say you’ve read your stuff and attended scientific seminars??? Well, once again, in your fine, cozy dreams perhaps. Because it seems you’ve been tightly asleep all through those lectures, debates and whatnot. In other words, a complete waste of time and energy. No sister Mari, either you’re pulling my leg here with your seminar fairy tales, or you’ve been horribly humiliated during those assumed debates. All I can say, finally, is: you’re a hopelessly lousy debater, dodging every point your opponent makes like a snake sneaking away into the bushes with lightening speed. Fine snoring……
And, a THOUSAND HOORAYS for our SUPREME COURT who’s had the courage to opt for the annulment of that absurd Don’t Show Don’t Tell (Army) Rule. I’m raising my glass of fine red wine. Congrats!!!
You devote a lot of time trying to prove your point. Here’s just
some of your evidence….
“fairy tales”
“mishmash”
“tyrannical dictates”
“imaginary heaven”
“senseless archaic ranting”
“contorted plagiarism”
“historical tales”
“tribal nursery room bs”
“endless lies of deception”
“pure hogwash”
“pseudo-historical ramblings”
“full waste of time and energy”
“static existential philosophy”
“faith as thin as tissue paper”
“nonsensical tall tales”
“spit on your religion”
“so-called image of God”
“absurd”
This is not evidence or even hypothesis, this is pure whining and whimpering at an elementary level.
There is abundant evidence scientifically, archaeologically and biblically that is out there for all to investigate but you choose to ignore and instead ramble on and on in the above mentioned manner. It’s near useless to offer any conversation to you because of the childlike responses. First of all, get serious secondly, stop with the insults and such. You would definitely be laughed off any debate stage if you represented yourself as you do here.
You should have applied for the post of leading actress in an upcoming soap opera, my dear. You surely would have been nominated for a Big Prize within a couple of years, believe me. Full pity if such a fantastic amount of talent got lost for our great country, don’t you think??
Now, I urge you to look up the meaning of the word CONTEXT, dear lady. If you really knew the meaning of that word, you would have certainly spared us your imbecile laundry list. Those “part-sentences” all represent fragments of our cozy little chats, not of an academic debate, because by now it’s clear to me you’re quite incapable of participating in such an activity in the first place. You don’t answer my questions, you don’t address my arguments ; you merely keep running around in circles whilst spewing your simplistic generalities about archeology and (what you call) biblical “evidence.” But detailed, intelligent argumentation and logically sound presentation of “proof?” I’m still waiting for ‘em.
Some time ago I explained to you – in extenso – why archeological findings cannot possibly be utilized as evidence for the truth of TRANSCENDENTAL ASSUMPTIONS. For instance, even if we could present hard evidence for Jesus’ birth around the year 6 BCE, which we can’t, we would still have NOT VERIFIED the assumption that he was God’s son (whatever that may mean). After all, and I’m very serious here, we can not interview God or one of his archangels, and, as far as I know, there’s no “celestial” birth registry available, offering us direct evidence for our assumption. Period. Jesus’ birth as the son of a Deity is an “article of faith”, not at all an indisputable, historical fact. Sorry for you. Same story with a whole host of (pseudo?) characters and alleged events mentioned in your bible. For example, we know that Five cities of the plains were demolished about 3000 BC, but do we know what PRECISELY caused their demise? Not at all. As I’ve said earlier some scientists THINK it might have been a massive earth (or better still sea)quake, some sort of Tsunami, causing a total, a really radical deluge. Others think a gigantic shower of meteorites literally wiped these cities from the face of the earth. (Remember what happened to the dinosaurs?). But how are we going to ever prove that this was all God’s doing (assuming (s)he really exists), because of the grave sins of the people inhabiting those “poor” places? Please tell me. No, Marilyn it’s all nice mythology, fine material for our friends in Hollywood to earn a fat buck in their spare time. The whole thing also reminds me of stories my maternal grandmother used to tell us, her grandchildren, about the bogey man (the swallower of naughty little boys, who was going to come and get us), in order to keep us quiet after “lights out”. So, dear Marilyn, to me it’s just as if the average conservative believer is still lingering in that delightful “naughty little” stage. And, oh yes, as yu may know, our conquistadores nicely succeeded in selling this biblical stuff to the poor “barbarians” everywhere in Africa and South-America, robbing them of all their precious commodities into the bargain. Great, eh, all done in the name of YOUR LOVING GOD…….. Bon appétit ma petite et bonne nuit.
By the way, you really can’t get enough of ‘em, eh; of our fine little chats. Ah yes, who again dared to compare the game of bickering to a proto-orgasmic romp? I just forgot……..
Take your own assessment of context to heart, Frederick. Place the same standard to your assessment and breakdown to the Bible. It doesn’t take a genius or someone with diarrhea of the mouth to figure. Stop the “Dance of Anger” (which I”m sure you’ve read) and address God. Oh, that wouldn’t work for you since you don’t believe in God. You just make me laugh Frederick….for a guy who adamantly screams the non-existence of a loving God and rebukes all biblical truth you sure use a lot of scripture to make your claims. Its like trying to prove that even though we know the Sun is shining and is indirectly giving us food that we consume and provides the temperature for us to survive, making the ridiculous claim that there is no Sun or benefit from it because one sits in a dark room all his life and never experiences the glow and warmth of the Sun doesn’t make it so. God’s ways are higher than your ways and God’s thoughts are higher than your ways.
Best wishes in your pursuit of the Truth, Frederick
I don’t remember when and where I ever encountered the comparison, but it must have been about a decade ago when I was still working on my dissertation. The guy, a New-Age adept I think, suggested that the relationship between God and Man closely resembles that between a dog and his master. Well, I’m not exactly a dog-lover, to put it mildly, a trait common among gays, I’ve been told, so I don’t know much about dogs and their owners. But from what I see in the streets here in my suburban neighborhood, I get the impression a lot of tenderness and warmth must be going on between those two critters, dog and man. So, I can tell you that I wish with all my heart that I could feel the presence of a (Transcendent) Being, calling Him, Her or Itself God, spontaneously. So, I envy our canine friends. No need for a dog to enter a special building (church, synagogue, temple, mosque) in order to feel the spirit of his master. No need for endless mediation or prayer sessions or for studying any “Holy Book” whatsoever. The Master is just there (especially when you really need him). So often I’ve heard folk say they could feel the presence of God or whatever high spiritual being, practically every time they wanted . I have never, never, never been that “lucky”. Yes, I know all the rhetoric about the need to be fully sincere and open and “expectant” and whatnot. But you can’t simply invoke (or evoke, I’m not quite familiar with the difference) these “qualities” at will. They’re just there or not, period. Fine with me.
Now, I’ve read a few of Neal Donald Walsche’s books depicting his “Conversations with God”. At first I was pretty much impressed: no condemnation of gays, no pestering with commandments, rules, regulations and what have you. Really my type of God. But later on I thought: no, no, no this Guy is much too vague, evasive and glib. Especially when it came to explaining the nature of His own being, the condition of what’s traditionally called “The Afterlife” and the reasons for human suffering. (I haven’t found anything on animal suffering there, btw!). So, God’s much and much too far away for me, psychologically seen. I read passages from the bible and don´t feel comforted or uplifted at all. Once again, all I feel is a lot of annoyance, impatience and anger. Imo I´m being fobbed of with totally empty promises. Sorry. But let´s say that life itself is one long (or short) journey towards `the` truth. And perhaps, perhaps the soul needs several lives to find its own unique truth. We´ll see.
Is anybody reading this drivel from the “god created man and woman” brigade?? _ I managed to get past a few sentences then realised that I had better things to do – like buy my life partner a bunch of flowers. It’s thanks to indiscriminate breeding that the world is facing a potential energy and food crisis, not to mention that homosexual men do NOT target kids — they are called ‘paedophiles’ dears, so get your facts right. IF Danny Crow (two brain cells or more?) and Gabrielle who would have the world crammed to the gunnels with starving millions (“Extinct the human race” ….PLEASE…)are typical of American thinking then the demise of the human race would be MOST WELCOME. (I’m a Brit — and proud of it..and GAY — even prouder….and yes it does mean ‘bright’ and ‘happy’ and I AM.
Top Ten Reasons Homosexuality Is BAD
1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things—like
eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning. If God had meant for us to fly he’d have created
us with wings.
2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay–in the same way that hanging around tall
people will make you tall.
3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may
even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage
contract.
4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed; women are still
property, blacks still can’t marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of
Britney Spears’ 55-hour, just-for-fun (“TRADITIONAL”) marriage would be destroyed.
6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile
couples, and old people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren’t full
yet, and the world needs more children.
7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children–because everyone knows that straight
parents only raise straight children.
8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one
religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in
America.
9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why
we, as a society, expressly forbid single parents from raising children.
10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social
norms, just like we haven’t adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or The Ice Capades.
Observations: Several people try to comment, but cannot type….or cannot spell. I cannot figure out what the problem is, there.
Lots of people quote the bible liberally. It has been my experience in life that quoting the bible to people who do not believe in God, or the bible, does not do much good.
Queers want to get married in order to get insurance and family benefits from employers. Why does anyone care? Employer benefits are going to go away soon, anyhow.
I am a Christian. I don’t care what homos do. It is between the homos and God. There are more important things in life with which to be concerned. Things like the ten million dollar vacation that the current muslim member who lives in the white house is planning to India. That is a problem for me. What homos do does not (usually) cost me any money
That’s what we call a fully opportunistic attitude, Fed up Texan, and a very cynical one, if I may say so. That previous member of the White House, your buddy George W. B. wasted trillions of dollars on a war in a couple of countries (Iraq & Afghanistan) where Christians are still being constantly and unashamedly harassed and killed. Did you ever care? I bet you didn’t. So don’t carry on blathering about Obama, because what he’s been spending the past two years pales totally in comparison to what your Georgie and his Big Boss Dickie Cheney threw out the oval office’s windows. That’s what keeps amazing me about you conservatives: most of you call yourselves Christians, but the only thing you seem to be interested in is tax-cuts and a mighty fat bank account. Yeah, what’s the name of this illustrious God again? Ah, yes Mammon. Open your bible and read what’s said in there about that vile God you’re diligently worshipping on a daily basis. Good luck.
The gay marriage issue needs to remain a strictly political issue. One can believe in God and the the teachings of the bible, but should not try and force this issue anyomore than gays forcing the life style or what ever it’s called these days. Whether one is Christian or some other faith, when it is argued as an absolute above all else, it all starts to sound like the evil that has driven the middle east for so long.
I agree with Cheney. Personally I’ve known some great gay people who happened to be very conservative Republicans. And don’t we have gays in the military eating sand to defend our country and our asses as we speak? It’s about time the Republican party quits disenfranchising gays. I don’t believe gay marriage is a threat to my personal liberties or to the moral fiber of society. Consider that Islam and Shariah Law (Islamic Law) condemns gays to death. In our country the Bill of Rights protects all people.
We’ve got bigger fish to fry, and we need all Americans who love our country, our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and our Western civilization to come together to stand and fight against those who want to subvert our entire nation. We have enough real enemies threatening our lives, our children’s and descendants’ futures, than to consider gay people a threat.
I’m straight, a Christian, and personally, I have absolutely nothing against gay people. Jesus Christ gave us one of the most important humanitarian lessons of all time, when he spoke the challenge,”Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” Every man dropped his stone in shame, because Christ knew their hearts. Think about this. Two thousand years ago stoning was a customary legal process. Two thousand years later the only group of Earthlings practicing stoning are Muslims. They somehow didn’t get the message.
I’d like to add another point regarding this obsession with what other people may or may not be doing in their bedrooms. It reminds me of the Salem witch hunts. As if the behavior of gays is so evil, it endangers anyone. Give me a break. I would say to these witch hunters,–and I don’t give a shit if they justify their bigotry by shrouding it in some version of “Christian puritanism,”–step into the 21st century. This obsessiveness is so akin to what is happening in Islamic countries. Take Iran, for example, albeit an extreme example of this mentality, they have such a relentless obsession to kill impure women. They recently hung a sixteen year old girl for the crime of adolescent sex, IF indeed she was “guilty” of such “offense”. (They didn’t have to prove it, according to their Shariah.)
Ignorance is bliss….. Does being conservative squeeze your brains so tight you are incapable of thinking on your own and opening your eyes and mind to the variety of different people on the planet?
Can you imagine if everyone was so filled with hate as most of those who leave their blogging comments here, how horrible a place the world would really be???
May I quote the bible my conservative friends “love thy Neighbor” and remember it will be God who will accept or condemn his children not the hateful neighbors – so back off and stop being such a hater and an ass!!!!
Rememer Jaklovr IF God exists and you (as an avid bible reader….) know Him or Her to be Love Itself, you should also know that God does not condemn. The two concepts (Love and Condemnation) just do not mix. We’re here to learn, all our incarnations offer us the opportunity to do just that: learn. Even beasts such as Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe were born to learn and will have another chance to learn during their coming incarnations. Amen.
I have just this to say:
Allowing same-sex marriage under the heading of “Their civil rights are being denied” throws the door wide open to legal polygamy, polyandry and polyamory.
Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.
Charie,
Check this website out if you want to see the true consequences of permitting same sex marriage.
Regrettably, there is a host of misinformation, ignorance, bad manners, bad grammar, and illogical arguments on this site. As
for all the “Christian” arguments; please note that there is
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, in word, story line, or concept in the so
called bible that was not copied, plagarized or stolen from
previous cultures, religions, and cultural mythologies. Nothing.
The “bible” is not a book, it is many, contradicting itself in
myriad ways and instances. Only an uneducated and unread
zenophobe would ever believe that anything in the bible is either
inspired, original, or accurate. Only stolen and repeated. Doubt
it? Get a real theological education, not a doctrinal script.
No thanks, sounds to me like more of the liberal effluent floating around in this giant cesspool being socially engineered today.
While I am definately a Christian and agree that homosexuality is a sin, the point of the article is about how this issue is dividing the GOP. I believe that homosexuals have the right to be with that person (I pray for their souls that they will come to know Christ and His forgiveness, lov, & mercy)but should not have the legal rights of marriage. Marriage is an institution established and ordained by God. Furthermore, by allowing legal status of spouse, you allow many other rights such as being a rider on another’s healthcare. This will cause our already expensive health insurance to increase in cost. What troubles me about the article is that so many RINO’s aren’t staying true to the Party Platform. I have seen so much anger directed to the homosexuals themselves but that will accomplish nothing. Where is your anger at Dick Cheney and the rest of the bozos in Congress who run as a Republican and say they will fight for your values and then do the opposite? Where is you anger at the court in California (and other states I’m sure)that overturn your votes such as Prop 8? Where is your anger that despite the past two years and this past election where we have protested with hundreds of thousands of people, crowded ourselves in townhalls; and emailed, called, and faxed our so-called representatives till we were blue in the face and our fingers felt like they werte about to fall off, the GOP still doesn’t get it!
Educated, sane and rational liberals really, really enjoy this
web site. It’s funnier than Saturday Night Live, or any comedy
movie, ever. The opinions expressed here, are for the most part
very ignorant, bigoted, and for extra entertainment, very
bad grammar. Idiocy. Most of the opinions expressed here seem to be written by educationally retarded people. Really retarded. If Sara Palin is your hero, you have some real psychological problems. Get
an education, get a life and intellect of your own, and stop criticizing people much smarter and far more accomplished than you. Find a new enemy to take your insecurities out on.
‘Theological Professor’, my foot! Or did you just nickname yourself with this title? TP or not, your prole reasoning amuses me.
Theology Professor,
Your sentence: “The opinions expressed here, are for the most part
very ignorant, bigoted, and for extra entertainment, very
bad grammar.” is, itself, grammatically incorrect. I believe accusing others of something that you are guilty of yourself is the very definition of hypocrisy. You also qualify as what most people who like this website detest – an elitist. Since by your own proclamation, you are “much smarter and far more accomplished than” those expressing their opinions here.
The British felt the same way about the American Colonists during the revolutionary war. You and those of your ilk are destined to suffer a fate similar to theirs.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well Marilyn. Our fierce debate still Reverberates at the back of my mind from time to time. Nevertheless I think it was good to say goodbye when we did. I’ll drink to your health tomorrow night during our (me and my lover’s) dinner.
IT IS ALL UP TO CHRIST TO DESIDE .
HOMOSEXUALS ARE AS GODS CHILDREN .
Yes homosexual children belong to God, but not the sin of homosexuality.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Do you not know that the UNRIGHTEOUS will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor HOMOSEXUALS, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Ah, “St” Paul’s rhetoric for the umpteenth time. Don’t you ever get enough of this crap, spewed by an out and out neurotic trouble maker? Furthermore, you talk about the so-called Kingdom of God. But do you really know what it entails? And, most of all, once again, how do you know such a thing exists at all. Where’s your indomitable proof? I’m still waiting for that tiny scrap of really intelligent evidence.
As far as I’m concerned, the God you say you worship is nothing more than a projection of your own troubled, vindictive mind. Think about it.
Oh Frederick, you fool—the evidence is all around you—think on that.
Evidence you say? What evidence? Of your so-called Kingdom of God. Well, of course, I’m a fool, so I keep seeing a world full of poverty, gross injustice against women, homosexuals, the physically disabled, infidels, illegal aliens, etc, etc, etc. Is that your precious Kingdom of God? Don’t let me laugh. Oh, by the way, did you that the so-called Sin of Sodom has nothing to do with homosexuality, but everything with violence against (illegal) aliens? Those poor “angels” were aliens in fact, strangers, foreigners, about to be abused by the insatiable men of Sodom. And what do we see here in the US of A today? Illegal aliens being left to die near our borders or in our beautiful desert regions. Great, eh? I gather that’s also part of the Kingdom of God!!! Well have a good, hard look in your mirror tonight and tell me who’s the big, pathetic, self-deceptive Fool here. Sweet dreams to you in your Kingdom of G. Ha.
There you go again with your incoherent tangents.
You know, Frederick, you parallel one of the great FORMER atheist, Antony Flew. He built his whole career on the supposed fact, that our whole world and contents could not have evolved with any help from a Creator. Well, sadly for you, (and where the parallel ends) Antony saw his foolishness and declared the existence of God shortly before he died. Albeit, no acknowledgement of a personal God. He confessed that the pure complexity of DNA was to blame. Once again, I don’t believe your intellect excels that of a well-respected scientific mind. Even though it took him a while to figure it out.
Oh, don’t worry, renegades will always be with us on this wretched planet, purportedly created by your God. Sure. But the main point is not even whether God exists or not. There are several other crucial points, in fact.
1. What precisely do we mean by the word or concept of “God”. How do we define God? To date, no one has been able to provide a comprehensive, logically sound (and, above all, verifiable) definition. Now, how are you going to convince non-believers that our universe was created by your God if you’re not even able to describe the precise nature of this entity or being or whatever you want to call it (him, her)?
2. What’s even more, how do you explain God’s existence itself? How can an entity such as God” exist at all. But, of course, before you can even think of being crystal clear in this respect, you’ll have to properly define your subject. So there you are nicely caught within your pathetic circular situation, my dearest.
3. Now, even if we decide that there must be a transcendental “first cause” as our friends the philosophers of religion say (and our senile coward Flew was apparently loathe to refute) , the question concerning the precise structure or rather the nature of this first cause still remains. Why would or should this be the Judeo-Christian tribal God Jahweh? Why not Zeus or the entire Egyptian or the Hindu pantheon? The alleged superiority of your own God is a total delusion. Take the difference between the God of the so-called Old Testament and the one figuring prominently in the New Testament. Two totally different entities, as far as I’ve been able to discern. One, a hopelessly jealous and vindictive tribal pasha, the other one a soft spoken dear old granddaddy, (Santa in disguise), promising us a place full of fancy goodies, post-mortem that is, if we’re found worthy and obedient enough. Oh, and don’t forget your precious old Allah, who seems to summon folk to shred themselves to pieces amidst the dummy crowds. Now, please, please tell me, what or who’s the real deal, and, above all, how are you going to fully and convincingly prove your point????
Oh, and what is this stupid nonsense about the complexity of DNA, rendering the acknowledgement of a ” personal God” problematic or impossible? That really sounds like completely senile abracadabra. In fact, you could turn the whole thing beautifully upside down and say that precisely because of the complexity of DNA a “personal God” (whatever that may be) should be duly postulated. But that’s another matter altogether.
Ha, much food for thought, eh? Happy studying!!!!!
Why do we need to throw pearls before swine?
Ho-hum!! You sound like a broken record. Borrring!Yeah, I get it that you can’t quite comprehend any god let alone a God. The point is that atheism is dead amongst the landslide of scientific data available—where will you situate yourself? Somewhere in the black hole of astrophysics—Happy computing!
Oh Miss Mary, ever heard of the ad hominem type of argumentation? Well, if not, look it up please. It’s precisely what you do ever so often. So, broken record, you say? Now, how about suggesting a few endlessly repeated points, without elaborating on them properly and extensively. For instance, you’ve made the point of so-called scientific data proving your precious dogmatic contentions correct, but in fact I’m still eagerly awaiting your list of relevant, related literature. And, atheism dead? Wishful thinking, my dear. Just hop over to Amazon.com’s debate site on the position of atheism/agnosticism vs theism today (just type in these three last words) and be fully surprised. No dear lady, the debate is still largely undecided, but if you really carefully follow the discussion you’ll see that we (the atheists and agnostics) are calmly and steadily gaining ground. (I’m just now rereading Christopher Hitchens’ God is NOT GREAT (how true). Fascinating tome, read it!!! And there’s so much to read in this direction, it could keep you busy for the greater part of the next decade. Happy reading. Meet you on Amazon.com!!!
Nothing I say will convince you to believe in a creationist platform. You have recklessly proven how entrenched and imprisoned you are by the atheism mantra. You are just waiting and salivating for the right moment to pounce—-I won’t fall for it.
Even when Christianity reaches out to you, you would cut it down and then have the nerve to say that Christianity is to blame for all the bad things out there.
Funny how your conscious motivates you to act the way you do and science is unable to classify conscious and give it up to spiritual possibilities, yes, maybe a soul. Think.
First off, there’s no such notion that Gay is 2 Q/s getting together to shack up deserves anything more than a so what???
Chances are they’ll end up getting divorced adding to the already plugged up mess we laughingly call our court system Ho HO Ho…
This factor has turned our judges into a bunch of drunks who go to give their confessions heard by someone who even drinks more than he who confesses does; and may even be tooty fruity which drove the judge into that box tryin to get a fixxx in the first place….HO HO HO…and then some…
This whole debate ( gay marriage vs no gay marriage; the relevance of [Christian] religion or, conversely, its total irrelevance to the discussion, etc, etc) will never come to an end. For a whole universe of reasons (most of them purely psychological) folk will stick to their tried and trusted positions. Well that’s the way it is and it can’t be helped I’m afraid. The only serious concern I have here regards the attempts by one party to impose its convictions on the other one and let the latter suffer needlessly. This is what’s happening right now with the voting on Propositions in various States. For the life of me I can’t see how my gay marriage is going to effect my heterosexual neighbor other than through possible tax measures government will have to launch somehow. So, quite clearly it’s all a matter of “pecunia” (money), not of CONSTITUTIONAL JUSTICE and duty. This, imo is a total disgrace in a country that prides itself so loudly on its so-called democratic tradition(s).
Hypocrites, that’s what y’all are, sorry.
Hey Frederick,
Check out this website if you want to be truly honest about homosexuality and same sex marriage. http://www.massresistance.org/
The homosexual pretenders….
pretend to be tolerant…
pretend to have children…
pretend to have the female anatomy
pretend to be effeminate
pretend to have a marriage
And all done with the idea of “imposing their convictions.”
HYPOCRITE!
It really hurts, eh, to see that we, members of THE GAY ARMY are not the least affected by your 1950s McCarthy bigotry. We just keep marching on and on and on, baby. Don’t you forget that. We’re nicely on track and we just can’t be stopped. Before long we may be even in the position of RULERS in this country Already various cities (here and in Europe as well) have fine gay mayors and some States openly gay Governers, if I’m not mistaken. Soon one of us will be heading for the W.H. Just you wait and see. Hullabaloo, Victory Boogie Woogie!!!
Regardless of what inroads you may accomplish, there is a time set for your destruction.Your accomplishments are ephemeral,they will be as a sandcastle being washed away by the sea, but your judgment will be eternal. Check out this website for the truth about homosexuality and its consequences.http://www.massresistance.org/
Just as I expected,but needed to give you the benefit of the doubt.As for being propaganda, I guess tangible evidence of the consequences for allowing this lifestyle to flourish is fodder to the blind. I believe that other forum members will become better informed about this plague and strengthen social resolve in combating its mutation.
You have No concern for this society just your self-centered squat! The true you revealed—narcissistic troublemaker. The homosexual message is riddled with untruths that destroy. So you gloat about your journey to dictatorship over the land. Sorry, my friend you cannot infiltrate those who know the truth and avoid the road to destruction. History reveals the leveling impact of societies gone homosexual. Somehow, that doesn’t surprise me after conversing with you and hearing you declare your selfishness over and over again.
Sickening!
Ah, never too old to learn, I was once told. Well, I never knew before about the existence of “homosexual societies” , as you call ‘em. I’ll certainly include that one in my diary. By the way, did you know that the greater part of Alexander the Great’s absolutely invincible army consisted of homo (or rather bi)sexual male couples? Fantastic, eh? Remember Elizabethan England? Renaissance Italy? (Leonardo, for instance)? Homosexuals all over the place. Times of haute culture, great inventions, unsurpassed art, music, etc, etc . Those were the times of brave and highly intelligent men. And many of them, of those brave gay men and women, who fought and died for your freedom in WWII, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan., who saved your ungrateful, sorry @$$, were born in the 20th century as well, I can assure you. They deserve your respect, but I doubt whether you’re capable of delivering anything in this direction!!!!
Nope,
Sorry but would rather have not been born at all, than to give thanks to some homosexual for their sacrifice.
Sorry to implode your argument—but I descend from a WWII veteran who fought bravely in the European theatre for your freedoms here. It’s clearly you who are ungrateful.
You’re no history teacher. Really a revisionist to suit your homo lifestyle.
Why do batteries have two posts one male(+) one female(-) instead of 2(+) or 2 (-)???
This is an example of the rule in order to have current flow, one must be a (+)plus and one must be a (-) Minus…the law of physics plain and simple…
This results in a marriage to cause current flow, otherwise with two ground posts(-)would result resembling a Boat anchor!!!
If you find this fact to be untrue, try starting your car with a battery which features (2) Ground posts…It’s a No-Go situation…
This mind entanglement produces no off spring and results in society that eventually collapses as amply outlined in the anals of History…
Cuzin Ern,
Very interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing.
Merry Chrsitmas
Holy Heavens, now you’ll have to explain to me what your “descent” has to do with your current despicable attitude, Miss Mary. This is what we call cowardry in plain English Marilyn; to hide behind your great-grandfather’s back and say: wow, look how grateful and tolerant I am. Yeah, and talk about hypocrisy here……… Ugghh…..
And to Cuzin Ern: Gee, never knew that batteries and human beings belonged to the same type of species. I’ll look it all up in my telephone directory: schools, hospitals, theatres and apartment buildings for batteries…… Presumably your Lord created batteries on day eight, correct???
Yea,He was “energized” and “kept on going”. ROFL
Oh, Erin, did you know that in approx 5 billion years our precious Sun will have turned into a Red Giant, who’ll engulf all the plenets in its direct vicinity, such as Mercury, Venus, earth and prbably also Mars?? But rest assured, long, long, long, before that the human species will have gone quietly extinct. The quality of Male sperm is getting weaker and weaker by the decade, so to speak, so, before long human fertility will be a thing of the past anyway. The batteries will have lost their power completely, probably before the great-grandchildren of your great-grandchildren have been delivered somewhere in a remote hospital. Amen!
Sorry, planets…
To really get a thought-provoking and inspirational message about planets, watch The Star of Bethlehem program on either 12/12 or 12/16 at 10:30 p.m. or 4 p.m. respectively on the TBN channel (pacific time) or youtube The Star of Bethlehem with Rick Larsen.
Merry Christmas!
Hey Frederick, I am all for Gay rights but your idea about God are off base my boy. There IS a Supreem Being. Call it what you may, God,Allah,Buda ect. Sorry to say, its the diffrent religion’s that get it wrong. If you could understand what “God” is about, you would be God like and none of us are anything near that. I am a gay man and have no problem with is there, or is there not a God. Like i said, its the churches that get it all wrong, no matter if there Christian,Muslim, Budhist or Jew. God is love, not hate.
Once again George,
You are right about God loving everyone. However, he does love the homosexual as well as the heterosexual, but hates the sin of homosexuality!
To all the rest of you on here, this is America where there is freedom and equal rights for all. Dont give me that bit about the bible says being gay is wrong. The bible also said be just to your slaves and many other way off base things. The bible was written by man, not God. Like i said before, God is love, not hate. Try to practice that. My God is just and full of love. It may be the same God as many of you but your not doing what He wants by spreading hatred. That said, Merry Christmas to you all.
George,
You are right the Bible was written by man,but was inspired by God.
Read Leviticus 20 verse 13 and Romans 1 verses 26 – 28. Then tell me what you think God thinks about gays. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
I would like to be nrief here with what I have to say, so as not to provide any fodder to those of the homosexual community. Kudos to those that have stood their ground in support of traditional marriage and our religious freedom. If you desire to see the true consequences of permitting same sex marriage then please have a look at this website.http://www.massresistance.org/
Bill
and God inspired me to say God loves gays just as much and that there is nothing wrong with being gay. He dosent make mistakes.
George,
My friend,in spite of your alleged revelation from God,I have to claim this to be a falsehood.Not that I doubt God might have spoken to you, but the fact that God is incapable of sin.You claim in your inspiration God told you being homosexual is okay.This is where your argument loses credibility. God hates homosexuality it is an abomination to him. If your claim were true then this would negate God’s omnipotence, making him a liar.Game over, all Christians can go home and stop trying to convince the homosexual community they are second class citizens. However, God is faithful and his nature is unchanging,he still hates the sin,but loves the sinner and gives you forgiveness for repenting your sins. I will be praying for you. Merry Christmas
Sorry George,
The paltry scraps of inspiration claimed by humanity bear no interest for me.If you feel that being gay and adhering to that perversion is acceptable then that is your choice.Rather interesting you have no feed back about the website.Did you even visit it or is the truth to disturbing to face?
Oh gracious Virgins, there we go again. Bill, I’ve visited this website before. To put it bluntly: it’s out and out Ultra Right Wing Propaganda, nothing more or less. The stupidity of it all is really incredible. For starters, why would we HAVE TO DEFEND Family values at all? Did you marry and sired children, just because you happen to endorse family values? Don’t be ridiculous. You met someone, you fell in love with that particular person and after a while you decided to ask a priest or a parson for his/her blessing. It’s as simple as 1,2,3. Got it? Nowhere else in the world where gay marriage is a fact, the whole thing has been turned into a full ideological (non)issue!!! But in America folk, apparently, have nothing better to do than bother us with their so-called moral outrage. Let them worry about the rapidly increasing number of families living below the poverty margin and the really scandalous greed of the super wealthy who refuse to pay their tax dues as well as the banker blood hounds who’re still pocketing their fat bonuses. They’re the ones who’re going to bring this country down and enable China and India to rule the whole damn financial world. Think about it.
You state that nowhere in the world accept America is there a problem with homosexual marriage.Well America is not the rest of the world, we are the leader of the world.The rest of the world looks up to us (or once did) as the beacon of light in an ever darkening world.What you hail as a moral victory is just another note in our death knell.
But in America folk, apparently, have nothing better to do than bother us with their so-called moral outrage. Well if reminding you of the assault on values that have made this country what it is “bothers” you then perhaps you need a little introspection into your beliefs, as well as their source.When is all said and done this comes down to a difference of ideology.The only difference besides what side of the line we are standing on, is where will our souls spend eternity?
Frederick,
There is so much in your post to comment on.Yes,I did marry and have children because of family values.It was not an unconscious act, nor a mechanical one as you believe it to be. It was done with reverence to God and His plan for mankind to be fruitful and multiply.To increase the building blocks of society “The Family” Now can the homosexual community claim the same? I fear not. Any relationship outside the boundary set by God is counterfeit. It lacks the ability to recreate itself,recruitment is not reproduction. So as you can see family values are the glue that hold us together as a society,destroy them so goes society.
Frederick,
You claim the homosexual issue shouldn’t be a focus of concern for society.That the financial extortion being perpetrated on society today by “banker blood hounds” is more relevant. Well that may be true,however my focus and strengths are in preserving freedom of religion and family values.There are others more talented than I that should be using their abilities to combat this practice.Issues other than my area of interest are nothing but smokescreens to me, diverting my energies to the fulfillment of my goals.
Here is an interesting book for those desiring to further understand how the homosexual movement is so successful in furthering the agenda of this social plague. David Kupelian’s excellent book “The Marketing of Evil: How Radicals, Elitists, and Pseudo-Experts Sell Us Corruption Disguised as Freedom”
Ha ha,
Here’s an even better one yet. want a look at what a future Marine will be like? Go to the website below.Just think your tax dollars will subsidize this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zNKVHhMPds
Lets not leave the Army out of this. He he
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARW65OucJnA&feature=related
Yeah, once again those “precious” family values, mon Dieu! Thieves, murderers, rapists, cheating politicians, etc, etc, etc. Know where they’re made? Ah, yes, you got it: in families. As a practising psychologist I’ve heard so many parents whining: oh, we’ve given him/her so much love and so much understanding and look what’s become of ‘em.
As far as I’m concerned the whole hype about so-called family values nothing more than part of the conservative political agenda, meant to tickle folk belonging to the religious right.
And don’t forget: the only point distinguishing hetero- from homsexual couples is the former’s “breeding potential”, in a world, mind you, where overpopulation is THE major problem threatening global peace and energy resources!!! So homosexuals (approx 6%, yes a mere 6% of the total population) constitute a full blessing to the planet. And FYI the so-called homosexual movement is not meant to promote a certain sexual object choice (as psychoanalysts say) but to reinforce freedom of sexual self-expression within the boundaries of the law. It’s you conservative folk who’re trying to discredit its objectives, small-minded and spiteful as you are.
Frederick,
You just sweetened the pot. A practicing psychologist eh? Thank you for the greater depth of your psyche.I have a question for you, I would like your response to be based on your psychological perspective. where do you believe homosexuality manifests itself from? Genetic,environmental, etc. I await your response.
Frederick,
I am not buying into the notion that the overpopulation, decreasing energy sources, are because heterosexuals make up 94% of the population. If I am understanding you correctly, just because the homosexual population is only 6% (your estimate) they are not culpable also? If this is the case what is it that exonerates them? Their being homosexual? You can not arrive at a verdict based on one’s sexual preference vs energy usage. If you feel that homosexuality is a get out of jail card to escape being guilty, then sorry but we are all in this together.In closing I don’t believe in the threat of shortages,over population etc.They are manufactured by the elite to increase control over the masses.
New Congress plans to defund implementation of DADT in 2011 which makes it meaningless. Read details here.http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1259414
Evidence that homosexuals in the military can hurt recruiting. http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1259998
well Billie, here’s a quote for you concerning overpopulation and population policies.
There are several key factors to consider when looking at the question whether or not the United States should pursue population policies to protect our quality of life for future generations. Any decisions based on this inquiry will likely lead to critical and emotional responses from the American people. There is however abundant amounts of information and data that illustrate the fact that the United States population growth is growing at an almost unmanageable rate. Population behaviors, if left unchecked will lead our country down an avenue that will be detrimental to our children and generations beyond.
Now, read the full article here:
http://www.npg.org/winningessays.html
Yes Billie, an unmanageable rate, so it’s high time for the number of gays to start growing substantially, from 6% to a fine 10 to 12%!!! Will do this country nothing but good, but, then a whole lot of gays will have to change their promiscuous lifestyle at least a tiny bit. BTW, you know, I haven’t done or read much about the matter, but I get the impression that promisuity has much, very much to do with masculinity and (a lack of) proper social control as well as an enormous amount of tacit coercion. You see, I do think, that women in general are an extremely sedentary lot, born to serve Kinder, Kueche und Kirche (their children, their kitchen and, last but not least, the Church) as the Germans say. So they won’t feel tempted (easily) to fool around as is the case with so many men, whether gay or straight. It’s our evolution, Billie. It’s hopelessly flawed, it’s a total mess, believe me. Sleep tight.
Frederick.
Thanks for the article it was well supplied with impending scenarios and possible solutions to these problems. First off, I give no credibility to the concept of over population ,dwindling resources.If I were to accept this then I would be denying my faith in God and his ability as our Creator in managing His creation.I am not denying the existence of these problems,just the fact that we need to resort to drastic measures like reducing the population by government intervention.This secular response relies upon man’s questionable abilities, which are inhabited with greed, exploitation and enslavement.Frederick, just what plan do you think is going to exponentially increase the homosexual population? I am curious about your response.
As for the issue of women being limited to the household to curtail sexual exploits, this seems to be a rather prejudicial viewpoint. Aren’t men just as guilty in creating these dilemmas too? My Biblical experience regarding this tells me that women were created as a help mate for man, to be a partner. Someone that walks not behind me,nor in front of me,but beside me. Women that respect themselves and have not been molested or raped seldom have issues of promiscuity, or the need to be housebound. Confronting the question of whether there is a correlation between promiscuity and levels of masculinity, once again I fall back on scripture in reaching a resolution to this question. Biblical fidelity to God and oneself answers this question.Lastly, we live in a world that is bent on self destruction,is demonic influence has perverted our true nature, we fall under the stain of sin.Yes Frederick, it is our evolution,and it is flawed. But this is where our viewpoints differ,we have a choice of whether we are to be prisoners for life , or allow the grace of God’s Son set us free. Well my friend I will sleep well, you do the same. Merry Christmas
This then is the difference between the two of us: I do not the least endorse your Biblical version of Anthropology. To me it’s a bunch of pure HOGWASH, excellent for the gullible and the naive now and 2000 years ago, but totally ridiculous seen in the light of (the results of) scientific research procured during the past century and a half. The very idea that women should be considered the helpmates of men has caused so much injustice, malevolence and towards our sisters that it really makes me want to puke. And your Bible is full of such despicable ideas and related practices. Unbelievable cruelty, laughable superstition, outright lies and totally crazy mythology (such as the story of Adam & Eve); you can find ‘em everywhere in your so-called holy bible. I’m absolutely through with that book. It’s got nothing worthwhile to offer humanity that’s not already been included within the covers of other, much older tomes, such as Plato’s Dialogues or the Chinese philosophers Lao Tze and Chuang Tzu’s work. (I’ve been enjoying Chuang Tzu’s stories and parables for quite a while now. Great stuff).
So, ok, this is a free country, everyone may and perhaps should believe – and even preach – whatever they want. But please, please don’t try to clamp everybody else, particularly the so-called non-believers, the infidels such as myself into the straight-jacket of your “holy” doctrine(s). The communists in Cuba and China are still doing this; don’t let ‘em beat you with the same stick you’re keeping aloft in front of their noses. Merry Christmas to you as well. Of course you’re aware of the fact that Christmas is a fully PAGAN FESTIVITY, aren’t you???
Frederick,
Thanks for your response. If you feel that the Bible is “Hogwash” and that it fails to withstand scientific scrutiny; contains events that offend your intelligence as well as your beliefs then I respect this.But you must realize that any rebuttal from me in future dialogues will based on the Bible as my source (the only source that I believe for humanity)for inspiration/instruction. I agree with you about there being barbaric acts,superstition, and deception practiced.
Regarding women in the Bible, just where are you collecting your information about the practice of maltreatment? Please submit your evidence and we shall explore this allegation together. As for my attempting to straight-jacket unsuspecting,unbelieving persons,I have never and will never push my beliefs on anyone. I will however present the Gospel as a seed to be planted on a plowed field (the unsaved individual)Once planted the destiny of the seed is in the hands of God and the individual. I will never push beyond a reasonable attempt for a spiritual decision to be made.That is something practiced by overzealous Christians today creating animosity towards religion.
Lastly, yes I know about the Pagan aspects to Christmas, the events that gave birth to the Christian Religion and it’s adoption of the date December 25th as being Christ’s Birth to separate itself from the influence of “Saturnalia”. Contemporary Christianity celebrates the date with The Saviors Birth and salvation for mankind being it’s focus. Well once again,Merry Christmas!
Well Bill, I could surprise you with quite a bit of evidence for the “low” status of women in biblical times (as demonstrated in the bible itself), but let’s stick to a few very instructive instances
1) You, as an avid bible reader, will undoubtedly be familiar with the story told in the book of Judges, paralleling the one of Sodom, etc. Just hop over to Judges chapter 19 and be shocked once again. I’ve described the whole nauseating affair in one of my earlier posts already, so I won’t repeat myself here unnecessarily. But ok, as in the original Sodom story a whole mob of men (men again, huh, see!!!!) wanted to have their way with a guest and his male servant staying with an old man at the town of Gibeah. Now, the old geezer wanted to spare his (male) guests the very horror of the mob’s request, so the (Levite) guest threw them his (female) concubine just to ravish and do whatever they wanted to her. She was ravished alright and finished off with a knife the following morning by her “master”, when she couldn’t get to her feet due to the amount of abuse she’d had to endure.
. And what do you think? Did the author of this insane story comment in any way on the horrific injustice done to that poor woman? No way, not directly anyhow. But the outbreak of a beastly war is duly reported (in the following chapter) as a “divine” retribution of sorts. So the message implied (as in the Sodom variant) seems to be: please don’t mess with our male guests, we’ve got women to spare if you’re really that desperate to get yer rocks off right now!!!
2).The apostle” Paul’s take on widows. Please read this delightful passage from a forum on the position of widows as depicted in the bible.
(See: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080211090019AA3GJ6i)
(Beginning of quote):
“Before his conversion Saint Paul was a vicious killer of the followers of Jesus. He had many of them put to death. Now he is writing the rules for Church aid to the widows including the ones that he must have left behind after having their husbands killed.
I Timothy 5:9,11-13 (NIV) No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is OVER SIXTY… As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to* (*Saying that Saint Paul had my husband killed).
He (St Pau;) is very much fond of the Roman authorities who “don’t carry the sword in vain”. He is confessing to them about his past murderous lifestyle, but not to the church (Acts 26:9-11). Saint Paul never repented for his past conduct. He just calls it “dung”.
(END OF QUOTE)
Fine man, huh, that St Paul, that unrepentant, fanatic murderer, who contended that men fancying other men would not inherit the so-called Kingdom of God. He who “ordered” women to just shut up in the presence of men. That’s the great message from your bible meant to comfort us “poor sinners”….. Ha, don’t let me laugh, please
Frederick,
Once again, thank you for your response. I would like to discuss the examples that you focused on. The incident in Solomon focused on revealing the identity of the child’s true mother.Solomon’s method in accomplishing the task was harsh,by our standards.Solomon,rather than deal with endless dramatics,knew that only the true mother of the child would rather give it up, than see it destroyed;where the impostor, lacking any true biological attachment, would allow selfishness to murder the child.This incident occurs in the Old Testament under the period of the Patriarch Rule.Humanity was incapable of obedience to the Law of God,a time where a scapegoat was offered as sacrifice for atonement for sin. The heart of mankind was yet to be pierced by the Divine.
Your statement of abuse against women is a valid one,however your viewpoint is made from modern day morality; which has had the benefit of social refinement and the influence of radical feminism. This was the culture at that period of time, a way of life that was acceptable in the treatment of women.Remember, this was the modern template during this period, there was no other choice which to emulate. Women were resigned to blind obedience, men held a greater value in society. So, referring to the Gibeah incident rather than offend God by committing an act of abomination, a female substitute was offered. Once again, this was a cultural acceptance, so there was nothing wrong with it.
Now in examining the life of Paul. He was a persecutor of Christians and committed unspeakable acts against them. This was an acceptable practice during this period. Once again it was socially acceptable,so no harm no foul. As for Paul repenting about his sin against Christianity, when he was on the road and his eyes were blinded, by what seem like scales,Paul did not have a conversion experience until the other disciples restored his vision. The scales were symbolic of his hardness of heart to God,Paul even commented that “he was blind but now he sees”.Restoration of his sight revealed a repentant, devout servant of God. Paul’s instruction to women was that of being silent, not disrupting/distracting church services. during this time women had not achieved status of service in the church.so, cultural acceptance is the rule here,there is no abuse of women occurring here. To envision there is would mean that one is viewing it from peripheral viewpoints that have yet to be evolved. Once again, thank you Frederick
Hi Bill, your statements concerning the influence of cultural conditioning on the ancients’ attitude towards women (and other “minorities” just as well, btw) is a very interesting one, seen in the light of our current discussion on the “legitimacy” of homosexual lifestyles. This is what I’ve been thinking and saying for quite a while now: the ancient Hebrews and Christians alike seem to have had a VERY “NARROW-BANDED” VIEW of sexuality, contrary to the (pagan or polytheistic) Greek (and Romans) who – openly and tacitly – proclaimed a highly “liberal” stance on the matter. These ancients did not the least bother about sexual object choices, as long as you refrained from corrupting minors. (Plato alludes to this point extensively in his Dialogues).
Now, the trouble is, we have no OBJECTIVE standard or criterion whatsoever enabling us to judge the moral superiority or inferiority of one socio-cultural community against the other. As far as I’m concerned (and a whole lot of “liberals” with me) Biblical mores are just as arbitrary as Greek or Roman or Persian ones, for that matter. Being an agnostic (leaning towards atheism) I do not the least believe that morality has anything to do with God or Gods, residing somewhere in an obscure transcendental “empire”. No Sirree, morals are man-made; let’s please take responsibility for our own contorted fabrications and leave god out of the whole discourse about morality once and for all. Thank you.
Frederick,
There is nothing more that I would love,than to accept responsibility for our contorted fabrications and leave God out of it. However, that is a contradiction within itself. Nothing can exist without God’s presence.Moral principles, being man made, are inherited with the propensity of his evil nature.It is Divine intervention that accommodates man the opportunity to free will – and we know how well that has worked out.
I agree with you about the judgment aspect.No society,race etc.should have the ability to judge another. When it does, it not only diminishes itself, but society as a whole. Only under Divine commandments does man have the right to act in accordance to God’s Will to stand in judgment,not in self-serving motives! I do believe that puts to rest the suggestion of there being no objective standards. As a society we have truly made a mess of things,but there is,always has been, hope for us. Adieu, my friend
Most of the replies here are from Queers. GOD will bring this issue to a damning close in due time. People that engage in perverted behavior, be it incest, Queer or lesbian will burn in hell. I can only judge behavior. GOD will judge the heart and soul.
God loves us all equally and will not punish anyone for being as he made them. The concept of heaven and hell is a fallacy. The Bible holds many truths, yet many fallacies.
I assume you have sources to back up that load of BS you just told? God didn’t make anyone gay, commit incest, etc. Second, Catfish is right. Their ways of doing things lead them down the road to pergatory. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Thank youso much CATFISH. I can see that you’re a very fine Christian, so full of compassion and very, very modest to boot. You seem to know exactly what God will and will not do in due time. I gather you’ve had a nice and cozy conversation with him recently. I’d be very curious to learn what his voice sounds like by the way. Anyway, I’m sure you’ve already been granted a gorgeous little villa up their in heaven. Absolutely nothing to worry about now, have you?. Congrats man (or woman or whatever you are)!!! Great…..
Since we are talking about the gay agenda, that’s what it is an agenda. Not just an immoral lifestyle, but it’s also a group of individuals trying to force their way onto the backs of the average American. Since we’re not just talking about marriage here, but being in the military, history, etc. This is what happened to a gay person 200 years ago in America.
March 14, 1778 – “At a general courts martial whereof Colonel Tupper was president (10 March 1778) Lt. Enslin of Colonel Malcom’s regiment was tried for attempting to commit sodomy, with John Monhort a soldier; Secondly, for perjury in swearing to false accounts. He was found guilty of the charges exhibited against him. Being breaches of the 5th. Article 18. Section of the Articles of War and do sentence him to be dismissed from the service with infamy. His Excellency the Commander in Chief approves the sentence and with abhorrence and detestation of such infamous crimes orders Lt. Enslin to be drummed out of the camp tomorrow morning by all the drummers and fifers in the army never to return; the drummers and fifers are to attend the Grand Parade at guard mounting for that purpose.
So much for the early Americans suppoting this immoral lifestyle. Catfish, I agree with you that God DOES NOT support this lifestyle. Also, if Frederick wants sources just look at Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1 verses 26 – 28. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
So what does the ignorance of 1778 have to do with today? Just what are you trying to say with this? That ignorance existed then as now? What does that prove?
Thank you for trolling the sites, Karolyn. It seems you didn’t understand what I was trying to say. They didn’t like it then and it’s still the same feeling now. What part of Washington greatly detesting this action don’t you understand? Also, back them they were kicked out of the army as they are now. Just wait, soon DADT will be back and you lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxists won’t be able to do anything about it.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1266168
FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Yeah Samurai, you say it remarkably correctly, that was what could happen to a gay person in the EIGHTEENTH CENTURY!!! We’re happy to be 21st century Americans right now. And these days we do have Gay Agenda’s, Feminist Agenda’s, “ Animal Rights” Agendas, Conservative Agenda’s, Liberal Agenda’s and what not. Ain’t that great, ain’t that an incredible blessing. But, of course your dim-witted small-mindedness will continue to dismiss it all. Suit yourself.
And, as for your “bible quotes”. We’ve been fighting over the legitimacy of your bible for well over a year now on this Forum, Samurai. Take your time, remain seated on yer lazy a$$ and read the entries running from approx August 2009 to November 2010. And be enlightened and surprised. I’m not going to repeat myself endlessly here. But ok, in short, your bible is NOT MY HOLY BOOK and your god is not my god. End of story. Just go do your Homework, I’m sure you’ve got time to spare for some very interesting reading. Bon voyage……..
Samurai,
Do not worry about the denial of Biblical Truth, or of God, by those that feel they have an agenda to accomplish. Just remain true to our cause and let God handle the retribution when the time comes. One can only lead a horse to water, but not make it drink.
Very true Bill. Sometimes it’s hard to keep trying to post without some lib talking about how the gay lifestyle is a good thing, but God says differently. I’ll always be true to the cause, because I would like to see this country get back to the ways of our Christian founding fathers. Our Christian founding that they wanted us to go by and not the whims of these libs in office. I’m glad we voted them all out and told them to “get to steppin’” and don’t come back.
Fredderick, remember what George Washington said:
“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.”
“Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society.”
If you’re still waiting on that “hope” that was promised by Obama bin Laden, think about this:
“He that lives on hope will die fasting.” Ben Franklin.
Bill, keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Well Bill, you see, this is precisely why I’ve grown so totally disaffected by the organized Äbrahamitic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam): the incredibly self-righteous arrogance (“we are totally right, they, i.e. the non –believers and the so-called pagans or heathens, such as the Buddhists, are completely wrong”. “We and only we own or possess the Absolute Truth and they are merely pathetic, ignorant heretics”( or whatever you want to call those at the other side of the fence). In the long run this will undoubtedly bring about your downfall, your total defeat, I’m afraid. In the case if the Christians, folk will notice the fact that your Jesus has still not returned to the planet, despite all the overheated, millennia old promises and they will no longer tolerate the lies and the outright insane “philosophy”. As for Islam, well, it’s demise will, in all probability, be brought about by a similar amount of disappointment and insight into its fully obscure and deceptive nature. (In fact it’s already going on very slowly in Iran!). Probably you and I won’t see this happening, I’m sorry to say, but your grandchildren certainly will, in due course!!! Voilà.
Frederick, your hopelessness reveals and totally explains your position. Give us one shred of atheist/agnostic or homosexual encouragement. Yes, your life is a dismal one….so sad.
Oh now I remember, the gloat and mastermind overthrow of traditional and family values is your impetus. Forge ahead!
Frederick,
My friend, hope that you had a Merry Christmas and a good new year.All religions will one day fade away, there will no longer be a need for them. The eternal promise of a New world will have been fulfilled, and Our Savior has returned.I see miracles everyday, I hear from others how God has worked wonders in their lives.I do not claim to set a timetable when God will return, that is folly,but I know that when he has been long suffering in his patience with mankind He will return.
DADT Repeal Not A Done Deal
The recent passage of DADT is not a done deal. Read about it here.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1266168
Very happy New Year to you and everybody else. Yeah, it’s still a mess with DADT, apparently. But, of course, patience, must be the best policy here. Alas, Congress seems to be dominated by conservatives, right now, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed. You, however, seem to quietly await your “victory”. Good luck. I’m quite sure JUSTICE will prevail one day
As to your faith re God’s so-called plans with this world: I keep being amazed how strongly you (and so many conservative Christians with you) claim to be correctly informed about your Lord’s objectives. After all, your ONLY SOURCE is the bible itself and you know what happens when a butcher is asked to It’s nothing but God is going to do this, God is going to do that and what not. All based, of course, on mostly very vague notions and promises to be found somewhere in your bible. To me, as should be clear by now, it’s all lame speculation and wishful musing, as your god him or herself seems to have been quiet as the grave for about 2000 years now. But allright, if it keeps you rolling very nicely through life and means so much to you, apparently, why not keep up your fine delusion. As the wiccan people say, do what thou willt if it harms none. Unfortunately, many of your conservative mates in Congress tend to (want to) mix their religious convictions with their political decision making and that’s where things may go really wrong. Talk about “flaunting” your lifestyle on others – the eternal cliché argument against gays in the military, for instance -, well it’s precisely what your Christian conservative friends tend to do in Congress and elsewhere (e.g. the internet).
Yeah, what a pathetic mess; but I gather they’ve have nothing better to do for the thousands of dollars doled out to them………
And Marylin the “pity” you care to express here is FULLY MUTUAL, my dear. Living by the dictates of a Total Delusion as Richard Dawkins says, must be heavy burden indeed. Lotsa luck with it.
Sorry for the typo devil: a butcher usualy refrains from commending his own goodies, doesn’t (s)he`/
Oh yes, and come to think of it: wouldn’t that gorgeous little sentence “For God and Country” make a marvelous MANTRA. You could go on forever, so to speak, For God and Country, For God and Country, For God & Country, a fine verbal perpetuum mobile. I think I’ll recommend it to my Taoist friends down here. But, uhm, I can even hear our dear sister Marylin producing this genius prattle forever and ever and ever……. Nice dreams everybody,
Question: Can elected officials nullify people’s voice in Prop 8?
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1268010
The point is Bill, an individual’s choice of marriage partner is NONE OF the PEOPLE’S BUSINESS, in the first place. (Provided the partners concerned are consenting adults indeed). I really can’t see the point of throwing the whole thing up for voting, in the first place. Precisely because this a point of honoring every person’s fully constitutional right to LIBERTY. You conservatives keep whining and barking about the `president wanting to curb your precious liberties and look what you yourself are doing right now. It’s so preposterously hypocritical. Ughh. I talk to folk from Western European countries and I can tell I’m really ashamed of being an American when matters regarding the attitude toward gays and the whole health care system come up. We as a nation are remarkably primitive lot, Bill. We ought to be ashamed of ourselves to the bone. ‘Nough said.
Frederick,
Once again thanks for the reply. I would like to point out that the United states is not Europe. what ever tickles their fancy is none of my concern. And regarding the Constitution, I can not once again give credibility to the document. It is a death sentence in itself to the true concept of freedom. It is based on the proposition that man is the ruler of man, and that in itself is a deception. In order for man to truly be his own ruler, it would need to be accomplished by man with the divine belief that God is our True Ruler. And Mankind just hasn’t got the knack yet.I stand on the evidence of the world today, and throughout history, when we abandon our faith in God. There are prolific examples in the Bible where rulers practiced apostasy and the consequences to their kingdoms. As well as the prosperity enjoyed by those rulers that honored God.
Well said.
And so begins the mass military exodus over DADT.
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/10d/brown_dadt/exodus.html
Frederick, I have just one question for you. Since you seem to be atheist, answer this:
“What proof and evidence can you provide the proves atheism is accurate and correct?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtNEeflbhHg
FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! (Not a country of gays, of course!)
why have the entries I delivered today (January 10) (reply to Bill) been deleted? Please respond, moderators!!! It’s been a whole lot of work for me, so please explain!
I have been a part of this battle, working for the Blessings of “GOD”.
Same sex marriage is an affront to “GOD” and His word.”GOD” says for us to multiply. Please explain to me how the same sex relationship can give birth. “GOD” says to avoid sexual relations until you are married.
Therefore what you are doing is a sin. If you refrained from sex until married, you would probably not be gay.
With Love and Prayers Bill
This is really so tiresome guys, and I’m especially addressing W.H. Bill’s Wiggins’ argumentation. We’ve had this discussion concerning the question of the bible being the “word of god” or not, a million times before. Please, please read the posts delivered from August 2009-November 2010 before you come up with a totally worn out point of view. The main point is so deceptively simple: to some the bible represents the word of God, to others this is MOST CERTAINLY NOT THE CASE. (And I do belong to the latter category). You see, it just happens that we cannot even define (the notion of) God, let alone investigate him or her as an entity. Two thousand years ago (yes millennia ago, guys), a handful of men (which in itself is so telling) decided that they had to write up a whole string of sentences ALLEGEDLY dictated or inspired by a divine mind. That was really all. However much we try, there is (and probably never will be) a RELIABLE, OBJECTIVELY SOUND way to prove the validity of this claim, i.e. that these men spoke or wrote on behalf of God or a God, a supposedly eternal, transcendental being. It’s an ASSUMPTION and absolutely not a fact that such an entity exists at all. It’s simply a matter of general logic. If you say that this universe must have been created by someone (as Shakespeare’s works or Beethoven’s sonatas have very clearly been the result of both of these men’s special efforts) you immediately face the problem of having to EXPLAIN God’s existence just as well. And I’ll be very glad to hear from the first human being able to do that in a CLEAR, FULLY COMPREHENSIVE WAY, at once enabling us to RELIABLY INVESTIGATE AND VERIFY its constituent elements. Well I’m waiting very patiently. Good Luck.
So, as soon as someone starts talking about “God’s Word”, I start to sigh. To me it quite quietly remains a totally empty notion as the main player in this whole field (“God”) remains completely obscure and fully unknowable (one way or another). To me that’s the way it is, alas, and I’m afraid it can’t be helped.
Frederick,
My friend, I am sorry that you experienced some difficulty in responding to the post.I also realize that your response was not to me, but W.H. Bill Wiggins. But my Christian inclinations will not permit me to idly sit by and not share my opinion.Your viewpoint as to the Bible troubles my spirit because of your limited acceptance of its origination. To believe that the Bible was the sole composition by man is a fallacy.Obviously,the ideology is beyond human comprehension.I submit as evidence to this claim the concept of Love.Love is not a human quality, as human beings we only know how to hate,exploit,and enslave.So there is a divine impetus beyond our mortal existence,one that loves us so much that it provided a users guide to life. (The Bible)
The existence of other belief systems in our society are inevitable, as were there two different camps of belief at Mount Sinai, which drew the dividing line between Eternal Life or Eternal Condemnation. Although its concepts are ancient, and at times shrouded in ambiguity, the truths remain unchanged and unchallenged to this day. The claim that God is a cosmic fairy tale,a being that created everything and set it adrift, and is laughing at us in some far of corner of creation is another testimony to humanity’s ignorance.Evidence of God’s sovereignty in our daily affairs can be witnessed in the delicate construction of a flower. The perfect selection of color,arrangement of individual petals,and the unique aroma. If that is still not persuasion enough, consider the phenomena of birth. Think about the hundreds of thousands human beings that are added daily to the world’s population. Then also consider the attention level of mankind and how quickly it becomes bored.You would think that after billions of births we would no longer be interested in the introduction of another person coming into this world.But on the contrary everyday there are mothers,fathers,grandparents that beam with pride at their new arrival.This to me echos the presence of God, as well as His ability to transform the mundane into the miraculous.
Respectfully, your friend, Bill
Well, the point we’re discussing here is not about the wonders of nature. The universe itself is something we human will probably never understand for even 0.5 %, let alone completely. Even Evolutionists readily admit to this state of affairs. But that’s another matter altogether. It does not justify the assumption of a divine being who Must be responsible for it all. This is what I call “the cognitive fallacy”. We already see this demonstrated in “primitive man’s” thinking.
In other words our inability to fathom crucial aspects of the reality (or rather realities) we observe and hear about, strongly reinforced (and still reinforces) the tendency to presuppose and even invent transcendental realities. In part, at least, “primitive man” is still residing happily up their within our all-American, European, etc brain structures.
The eminent Dutch neurobiologist, Professor (emeritus) Dick Swaab has recently written a most beautiful book about the influence of various parts of the brain on a whole host of behaviors (including even homo- and heterosexual attitudes!!!!), titled “We are our brain”. Great stuff.
So, the upshot of all this is that the concept of God, such as portrayed in your Bible, to me is hopelessly outdated and very clearly reflects the attitude of primitive, ancient as well as medieval man, who wasn’t prepared or ready, if you like, to pose forceful, critical questions, think for himself, challenge the lame “explanations” of his religious leaders for the state of affairs in nature as well as organized society and his own existence. The great motto always was (and in some quarters still is), just accept your fate, obey God’s alleged laws and regulations and all will be well in the hereafter. As far as I’m concerned you could very well fool the masses in Ancient times (and in a lot of underdeveloped countries around the globe nowadays) with such lame nonsense, but not an intelligent, autonomous, critical thinker in the 21st century. Sorry. The best we can (and perhaps should) do now is to “reinvent” so to speak, the concept of God and stop talking about god as a person, some Gestapo-like Big Brother who’s indeed watching you all the time and will come up with a fine retribution (YOUR WORDS BTW) if you refuse to follow biblical rules. Amen
Oh sooo ignorant to believe that <5 percent of total knowledge as you say, nullifies what Christianity explains 100%. Evolutionist and atheist make gigantic leaps to bridge their theories—true cognitive fallacy! It really takes more faith on your part to cling to an empty hope that evolution will provide total amnesty for your life, let alone to explain life.
Oh dear, oh dear, MARILYN, I totally forgot about the brilliant post of yours, the other day (Jan 11). Well, my dear, maybe you should open your Wikped and look up the meaning of the word “EXPLANATION”. Because if you call that illustrous sentence, “GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH IN SIX DAYS” an explanation, my only sensible response must be a thunderous laugh. Remember that you still can’t tell us HOW he did it, if he did it, let alone enlighten us on the PRECISE Process of creation in all its illustrious details. No Marilyn you’ll have to do much better than that to be convincing to a poor soul such as myself. Bon appétit.
The “if” and “how” of creation has already been answered for me and of course the precision in which it was executed by God is still in effect today. Your body is testimony to that. Glossing over the fact that you experience precision every day and challenging more evidence of precision explains your ignorance. You still don’t get it and continue to bang your head against the wall demanding creation 101 class from someone whom you make fun of…since you act like you have a handle on humankind and this non-created world let’s hear your version of how you got here—–its about time we heard how you explain it all and what it means and where its going.
Awaiting your precise answer!!
Frederick, your silence is deafening.
Oh, uhm, I’ve got another fine book for you to read. Your local library probably will probably have it somewhere on their shelves. Its title: 101
Myths of the Bible: How Ancient Scribes Invented Biblical History, by Gary Greenberg. In it he exposes the contradictions embedded in many of the tales and events in the Old Testament. Greenberg’s analysis of Egyptian myths and ancient versions of the Bible reveals many surprising facts, such as:
– Noah’s Ark did not land on Mount Ararat
– There are at least two versions of the Ten Commandments
– Sodom and Gomorrah were mythical cities that never existed
Incredibly interesting stuff. Happy reading
Oh, and Samurai, my MOTTO would be (FOR) PEACE, PROSPERITY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. (Not just Americans, but every single individual on earth). I think that if political leaders, nay, every single person would sincerely meditate un this mantra, the world would gradually become a much better place to live in. Peace= no more addiction to handguns killing hardworking citizens; Prosperity= no more children starving by the millions annually; Justice= no more discrimination of minorities (women, blacks, Hispanics and gays). Just think about it for a few minutes.
Sorry, but gays aren’t a recognized minority. You know our government goes by religion, race, and nationality, so where do the gays fit into this spectrum? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Frederick,
Thanks for the reference to the books. However, in all honesty I will not be reading them.They are constructed by the limited vision of Man and have the unconscious motivation to disprove the Divine Truth of God. What more effective weapon could the enemy contrive than by creating doubt.Remember, that is what created all this chaos in the first place – Eve doubted God. Even The Son of God, while on the cross, was no stranger to doubt. He knew for an instant what it was to be without God in His life, when His Father turned His head from Him, Jesus cried out”My God why have you forsaken me”? Doubt plagued the Israelites at Mount Sinai, doubting Moses would return from the mountain top. The consequences as a result were the creation of a golden idol. And we are all witness today to the power of doubt, look at what mankind has done to this world. The Bible tells Christians to test the spirits and not believe all is truth, we are to be as innocent as doves, but wise as serpents. So, once again I will fall back upon the Bible and its infallibility.
Your friend, Bill
Oh, Bill, you’re really a doll; very sweet. To tell you the truth, I did not expect otherwise from a taunch believer licke yourself. Hpwever, for your information, my purpose wasn’t to sow doubt, but to provoke, to let you know, that there is a whole library of knowledge available out there for your “education”, so to speak. But ok, to be honest, I’m been acting rather naive as well, because it might have been clear to me that you’re perfectly happy the way you are, with your bible and all. And, rest assured, so am I, without any bible or other related tomes. I thoroughly enjoy reading about the Tao and Zen-buddhism and related oriental philosophies. They’re delightfully relativistic and refreshing. No blathering about sin or retribution or heaven or hell or gods or a god who’s (purportedly) so keen on judging human beings and ought to be feared. The very idea. Oh yes and a couple of years ago I decided to spend some time with Neal Donald Walsch’s books (e.g. “A conversation with God” and “At home with God”). Very interesting stuff and such a far, far cry from what’s included in your bible. Neal’s God appears to be totally, but really totally different from yours. No condemnation of homosexuals or anybody, for that matter. It’s just: take it or leave it, if what I have to say doesn’t appeal to you. Eventually you’ll certainly find the WAY that suits you, that’s in accord with your own soul’s needs. And above all, I don’t need anything from you. Please feel free to accept my words or not. No offense taken”. If he exists at all, this is the “God” I’d like to meet and have an open conversation with. (Not the God portrayed in your bible, who impresses me as extremly rigid and static in nature). Although I most certainly do not agree with everything Neal Walsch reports and “God” contends in these books, I really enjoyed reading this stuff, which is absolutely not the case with (the bulk of) your bible’s contents. To me your bible is a veritable straight-jacket, a thin rope for the gullible to hang on to. The Taost master Chuang Tzu (approx 400 BC) says (and I’ve presented this quote before: IF THE SHOE FITS YOU WON’T FEEL YOUR FOOT”. I’m really in love with that sentence; it’s liberating and comforting. That’s why my “Zen and Tao-shoes” are so delightfully dear to me. And believe me, if they don’t fit anymore, if they’re worn and torn I’ll just as freely throw them away. “Existential systems” are meant to serve human beings and not the other way around. Capice? Have a fine day and night.
O Geez, I really need some good typing lessons. Sorry. (Taunch should be staunch, of course and licke, like and I’m been means I’ve been, of course. Etc. Sweet reading.
Frederick, I am happy that you are content with your exploration of Taoism, Zen-buddhism,and other oriental philosophies. I have done some investigation of these disciplines.However, I have found a flaw in their structure. They are, as you claim, like a comfortable shoe, as well as being capable of being discarded when purpose has been served.But the function of a belief system is not contoured to the pleasure of the believer,but just the opposite. My understanding of these philosophies is that it eradicates the guilt the conscience, that man has been divinely created with, must feel in order for the sinner to repent from. The rose must have its thorns to be a rose,or it is not a rose. This is my justification for my denial in accepting their validity. Although, they are very potent in assuaging the human intellect and spirit,they fail in being proactive to convict,save the human soul, and realign the symmetry of the sinner with his true source of salvation.
Thank you once again, my friend for your perspective.
Trying to pinpoint the essence of the difference of opinion between us, Bill, the “magic word” would seem to be SIN. It (as well as the word SINNER, of course) bristles all through your posts here (and those delivered by other conservative Christians on our Forum). You seem, almost literally, unable to stop repeating yourself in this regard. It’s Sir John the Baptist (hair shirt and all) all over again: “repent, repent, sinners, for the Kingdom of God is upon you now”). So Bill, we’ve been hearing this glorious message for about 2000 (yes Bill, TWO THOUSAND) years already. But wait; what did I just say? Two thousand years? It’s been more like three or four thousand long, long, long years, Bill. Because your unwashed Old Testament Judges and Prophets and what not, screaming at the top of their lungs throughout the region, already tried to get folk to fully comply with your Lord’s rules and regulations. And, has it changed anything in this fantastic world? I think you know the answer to that one: NO, NADA, NJET, absolutely nothing. Jesus spilled more than a bucket of blood on that wretched Israelite soil a couple millennia ago, or so your bible’s seems to be telling us. And, the result? Exactly the same mess humankind has been wrestling with since time immemorial. Or worse, even. At least, two millennia ago we had no nuclear weaponry, household handguns (by the millions) and horrible environmental filth to deal with. But ok, now, in any case, you can be “saved”, as you contend and have your soul dragged into some “heaven”, although you haven’t got the slightest clue what it’ll bring you at all and for all eternity, mind you!!! Never mind those billions of “evil”, unrepentant souls (atheists, agnostics, pagans, half-pagans, you name ‘em) who heard your “Good News” but refuse(d) to comply or bow their sinful heads, or whatever) and will have to sigh and cry for the rest of eternity within that pit of red-hot doom. Yeah Bill, that’s what your Loving God, your Magnificent Big Brother seems to have in store for us and I’m sure many of your Fundamentalist Mates are incredibly proud of it all. Good graciousness, for crying out loud, pffff…….
Please forgive me my sarcasm, Bill, but to me your so-called good news amounts to nothing more than the musings of an unbelievably sick mind. To me it’s mostly PSYCHIATRY, Bill, that bible of yours, plain and simple, except for one single rule: LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. When Jesus fed the hungry, healed the sick and comforted the bereaved, that’s precisely what he did: he acted lovingly towards his fellow-citizens. But so did the Buddha and many, many, many other “Holy” (Wo)men throughout the planet, Bill. Nothing special and something very special at the same time. That’s the way it is and that’s the way it’ll stay, till our specious goes extinct in, maybe, a couple thousand years. Amenito.
Hello Frederick, I’m originally from Korea and have become a proud U.S. Citizen this past July. I want to say that I understand your interest in the religions of the Far East, as my 2 sisters and mother are Buddhists, but I want to ask you some things.
1. What miracles did Confucious, Hindi, etc perform and to whom did they perform them on?
2. Who did they raise from the dead?
3. Which one of them had the power to forgive sins?
None of them! The only person that ever walked on this earth that could do such things was Jesus. You can read Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John in the Bible and count everyone of these things he did. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
It might seem that my comments are off subject but read the whole thing. The issue of gay marriage is the same as legalized pot and back before prohibition alcohol. Heres why; the issue of making gay marriage legal makes me ask the question “why is it illegal”?if you think about it nothing is illegal until legislation is passed declaring it illegal. The interpretation of christians, jews, muslims, etc is a theological one and a religious institution should have the right to decide thier position. That leaves the question as to why it is illegal to begin with, and honestly I don’t have that answer but I do feel that it is a law against our liberty. so is pot being illegal just as alcohol was illegal. The fact of the matter is progressives in thier urgency to “get things done” are the cuase of this. Think about this, most people wouldnt even give a crap about who marries who if all we were working on was having a balanced federal, state and probably most local govt budgets, or securing our natoions borders or making sure our childe=ren were educated with facts not deleted info [at least the nazi's said they were burning the books - we are just silentlky censuring them]. Conversly when the gay community drove the issue to be a referendum and the gay community lost in the vote, the progressive [which to be fair is most] aspect of that group resorted to rioting and violence / protest. They can’t live by the rules they make, you have to. i would rather have 2 women or 2 men or a man and a transgendered women [or vise versa] married than all the divorced amongst our straight people. So if we leave it to states to decide we can have a balance. this is what America is majority rule. With all the bickering back and forth on healthcare the left argued that 15% of Americans had no health insurance. i doubt the number but lets say it was right, doesnt that mean 85% did have insurance. Doesnt that mean that the system works? i do believe that a marriage is between a man and a woman but i cant find the downside of allowing gay marriage compared to the energy we spend arguing about it. How many people would like to have the Federal / state budgets managed according to revenues collected on a fair tax table and a reduction in govt debt in an exchange for legallizing gay marriage? Its a slamdunk in my opinion.
You know in baseball, sometimes you give up a run to get an out. The problem with both sides is we are trying to go undeafeted! In the process we are going morally bankrupt. Would you lose a limb to save your life? Remember the quetion wasn’t “do you want to lose a limb” but “would you to save your life”? Only you can answer that! I suugest waiting until you have to. Food for thought [of course food with less salt, no transfat [is that fat going thru a sexchange?] no MSG [they are having a concert tonight] or cornmeal [we need to have the fuel for our cars].
Uh Rob,
Let me see if I have this right,you want to trade morality for prosperity.I don’t think so.We the people would rather live in poverty than be seen as another nation that has succumbed to the pathology of homosexuality.
DADT repeal exemption gaining support
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1273666
Homosexual soldiers a security risk
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Security/Default.aspx?id=1273732
No need to trade in anything Bill. Morality depends wholly on your own precious perspective, Bill. Your’s (the Christian religion) is based on a TOTAL DELUSION, a fully anachronistic philosophy of false promises, unverifiable assumptions and a very negative outlook on mankind. A philosophy that PROMOTES BIGOTRY and SUPERSTITION and seems to thrive on the reinforcement of fear of retribution (do this or don’t do that, or else). We’re inundated with messages concerning God’s Love, Bill, but this so-called love is nowhere to be found. What I see manifested, Bill is suffering, suffering and suffering, once again. Where is God’s love? Your religion is steeped in sado-masochistic thinking and ditto behavior, Bill. I’m very sorry, but I do not and cannot have the slightest sliver of respect for your preaching. It’s excellent for the gullible and the naïve, not for genuinely modern, independent thinkers.
Frederick,
Thanks for the response. Well, Christianity has been received the same way for thousands of years.The credibility has been questioned,as well as its goals, truth. To expect the human mind,spirit to comprehend the Divine without the Spiritual Enlightenment is absurd. What makes Christianity unique,is that a foundation of faith is need to understand the message of Love Our Creator gave us. Yes, I concur with your appraisal that it promotes bigotry, but only in the context of it being against that which God has clearly manifested as sinful. If people have difficulty seeing God’s Love,the problem rests with them and not God.To make a global assumption because one cannot see God’s Love doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.That is one of the reasons that I am grateful for God,He doesn’t allow His Omnipotence to be seen by the eyes of the unbeliever. So, I fear that your failure to understand God and His Providence rests within your own unbelieving heart, and myopia.Two characteristics of the modern,independent thinker.
Frederick , I will continue to offer you up in prayer that your heart would soften,and your spirit would quicken to know the Love of God,and that your eyes would see His Truth. Well as always your friend, Bill
Transgender’s request a sign of the times
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1275460
The main point is and remains, Bill that so many things are ASCRIBED TO “GOD” that are either totally unverifiable or outright incorrect and deceptive. As to the latter: whole libraries have been filled with information in this direction, but, of course, Fundamentalist Christians prefer to keep their heads firmly stuck into the sands of their Delusion. I urge everyone to read that very revealing book by Gary Greenberg: 101 Myths of the Bible, in which it’s shown that a large part of the so-called Old Testament (anyway) must have been dreamed up; concocted, nothing less than that. When will you Christians come to yer senses at last?
And, as for that “transgender commotion”, well, the usual HYSTERIA in this country regarding “alternative lifestyles” will be with us for a neat while, I’m afraid. But, you’re quite familiar with the old saying about the caravan and the dogs, I gather. Just let ‘em bark to their heart’s content. They’ll get tired at a certain point, I can assure you…….
WOW, This must be the blog for illiterate, illogical, bigoted,
and homophobic misfits. It’s like falling into a forum of
retards.
Too much lib kool aid on a daily basis. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Exactly my idea Lily. Imo it’s so hilarious and sad at the same time that in an allegedly (post)modern and secular society such as ours, raging battles regarding (the legality of) abortion, euthanasia and homosexuality are still being fought so fanatically. Really unbelievable that educated (???) Americans are letting themselves be fooled by the dictates of a 2000 year old tome and folk apparently still use this book as some sort of cookbook. Good gracious Méditerrané.!!!
Frederick,
Hello my friend.well, your focus is on modern secular society and some of the prevailing trends that occupy humanity’s conscience. Those trends being abortion, euthanasia,homosexuality. All being part of the Culture of Death. Frederick, unfortunately my expectation of you seeing the Bible for what it truly is, is an exercise in futility. However,should you choose to envision it as a cookbook,I personally know the Head Chef and can treat you to some delicious entrees! I do find it rather curious that being just a book,it has definitely made a historical imprint on the soul of humanity.
I see that we have another perspective that has been posted. I think the lady,and I use the term loosely, needs to exercise etiquette, civility to those of differing viewpoints here in the forum. Perhaps her irritation to opposing perspectives might possibly reveal a preference for homosexuality (Lesbian,Dyke). She must also realize that criticism of the messenger, rather than the topic being discussed, only serves to diminish her argument as well as credibility to any intelligence.
You all are falling into the “trap” people. The POWERS that be are sitting back and laughing at the mess that they have created through their laws to divide the people. WAKE UP! PLEASE. We all have the rights given and set up by our founding fathers to live free. If we allow them to keep dividing us through our individual convictions. THEY WIN and, WE LOSE. Simple as that. There are a great many things that I do not agree with as far as peoples sexual or religous beliefs. But, It is not my concern regardless. I just want to see our nation free of the tyrants that run it these days. WE ALL NEED TO BE UNITED! Or, DIVIDED “WE WILL FALL” All of us. At every level. Period! Let us not let them get away with dividing us as a nation. Let us all keep them exposed. And, in check. “PLEASE”
American Patriot,
Although your intentions are admirable, there will never be a unity between the difference in convictions.Light will never be darkness, and darkness will never be light. People will choose to be divided and fall, rather than acquiesce to the tyrants empowered today, as well as their divisive agendas.
American Patriot, I admire your desire for peace and unity.
But sometimes, you just have to admit the truth. ON THIS ISSUE, WE ARE NOT UNITED.
And in this issue, the HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY HAS BEEN THE AGGRESSOR by
trying to redefine the Sacred Union of MARRIAGE into something it is not and something that GREATLY MOCKS AND OFFENDS MANY MANY PEOPLE OF FAITH !! You cannot just take something that so many hold to be SACRED and desicrate it’s meaning and not expect to bring anger and condemnation upon yourself.
If I spit on a Muslim’s Koran (and I never would)- would I not deserve his anger and outrage.
The homosexual community has spit on marriage – and acts shocked by the anger THEY have provoked.
Marriage has certainly been held to be the SACRED union of a Man and a Woman in the presence of God – by the Judeo/Christian community for OVER 5,000 YEARS. Think about it. You’re attacking what many believe to be the most basic pillar of civilization – and that belief has been held for OVER 50 CENTURIES. We believe Marriage and the traditional family unit (in as much as it can be lived) to be the basic building blocks of civilization ! If peace and love and unity can be nurtered in the family, it can grow elsewhere. Having a LOVING father AND mother is the most beneficial environment for a child to grow up in. If one parent leaves the family and the other single parent must raise the child, well God bless them and help them to do the best that they can. God is Good, so He will. But we, as a society can still aim for the ideal – BOTH: A LOVING MOTHER AND FATHER.
To attack that ideal is wrong.
To try to redefine it is a SACRILEDGE TO PEOPLE OF FAITH.
You, yourself, may not believe in God, and that is your right as an American. But my right as an American is to speak out with anger when someone wants to take what I hold as HOLY and SACRED and wants to piss all over it. Excuse the language, but it best defines what they are doing.
THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY GLEEFULLY DESICRATES WHAT IT KNOWS TO BE SACRED AND REVERED BY SO MANY . . . . AND THEN ACTS SHOCKED WHEN IT RECEIVES SUCH STRONG ADMONISHMENT AND ANGER
If you want to live together – go do so, few will bother you.
If you want to call it BY ANOTHER NAME – go do so, few will bother you.
But when you wish to redefine the most basic fabric of our society – marriage and the traditional family – YOU are the one picking the fight.
Make no mistake, WE weren’t the ones to start this.
I pray that people who read this will understand why this is such an important issue and why the majority of people in this country feel so stongly about Marriage being firmly defined as 1 MAN + 1 WOMAN.
Bill, my man, Light cannot possibly exist without darkness and v.v., think about it. Besides, “Good” and “Bad” are relative notions Bill. God, for instance, as the All Good Being solely exists in your imagination, sure as daylight changes into night.
And, that is what we call CYNICISM, Bill, your idea of a treat: putting your ticket on a bunch of ancient myths and waste away your life for an imaginary pie somewhere in the sky, a bag of totally stale air!!! Come on, man…..
As for your Culture of Death? Ha, well I’d rather call it the Culture REALISM, Bill. In my book Life and Death are the two sides of exactly the same coin. Death is the consequence of simply being born. Not only plants and animals (such as human beings) die, whole galaxies do, Bill. As Goethe once said: ALLES WAS ENTSTEHET DAS VERGEHET. Meaning: everything that had a beginning will necessarily end one day. As to abortion: I’d rather not be born, than born to someone who doesn’t want me and in all probability will see me as a heavy burden and treat me to a couple of decades of neglect and abuse. Euthanasia, similar story: I’d rather die than be forced to face a life filled to the brim with excruciating pain, loneliness and a feeling of total and really utter futility. No Sir, not for me, thank you very much. Your Christian message I still experience as a message of Deceit and Delusion, Bill, as I’ve indicated so often before. Oh, I’m not saying that I know for sure there’s no transcendental reality out there, but we ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO CLUE WHATSOEVR as to its TRUE NATURE AND “SUBSTANCE”, if it exists at all. Perhaps it’ll be revealed to us one day or night….. Meanwhile I want to keep my own two feet firmly planted in earthly soil!!!!!
Frederick,
Your declaration of light not being able to exist without the presence of darkness reflects the finite depth of human reasoning. Light, and the creation of all matter,has its genesis in the divine thought. As for your perception of the world and life being so traumatic, this can all be traced back to man’s lack of fellowship with God. As a result of our choice to deny God His rightful place in the world. I can hear your chuckling now. If your disagree with this explanation then please provide me with a definitive answer of your opinion.
As for your comment on abortion, I empathize with you regarding not desiring to be born to an abusive parent.But, as we both are aware, we do not have a choice regarding who our parents will be. The Bible is clear on the consequences of a child being abused. Although the child is unloved by his earthly parents, God tells us that He will never leave nor forsake us. This promise includes abandoned children. I am a staunch believer in Pro-Life, I feel abortion is not an option under any circumstance.Yes, I can hear objections forming now.People objecting “What about in the case of rape,or the mothers life is in danger” Neither are justification for abortion,God is the author of life,and He is in control in both circumstances.
Lastly, regarding the transcendental reality,true nature, and substance of things ,I find it incomprehensible that mankind chooses to grapple with the infinite, with a finite intelligence. Metaphorically,this reminds me of a grade school student attempting to comprehend graduate level material. In closing, where would we be if Orville, and Wilbur wright, only desired to keep their feet firmly planted in earthly soil?
I think the main problem dancing through our entire debate here Bill is the difference in opinion regarding the God you say you worship or believe in. I MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT BELIEVE in such an entity or being or whatever you want to call him or her. That should be clear to you by now. To me God as portrayed in your bible is nothing more or less than an IMMORAL TYRANT as there have been and still are in the Orient (particularly the Arab countries). We human beings and animals alike are thrown into this world, without anyone asking us whether we want this or not. But even if we were given a choice the question still remains how ethical it is to push anyone through such a dire process at all. Has your God himself ever gone through such an experience? Jesus ALLEGEDLY did, but first of all, his status as God is still highly controversial and his presumed appearance on our planet is supposed to have been the result of a fully conscious (type of) “gentleman’s agreement”, not a random material event such as your or my birth or the birth of that beautiful moose who’ll be crushed and bitten to death by a hungry cheetah. (Nice TV-scene I happened to fall into the other night. And, nice circumstance your Loving God […….] created for a living critter to experience (the moose, that is), including all the pain and fear and panic. Really fantastic, eh? What an infinitely wise creator!!!).
Oh yes, and it must indeed be a very, very loving God who demands even rape victims, women running an irreversible risk, or women about to give birth to a mental and/or physical “monster” (facing a life of horrendous suffering for multiple individuals), to just let their “pretty baby” be born. (To name but a few very “humane” circumstances………).
No Bill, I’m very sorry, but to me such a God himself is nothing but a monster himself, a joke, an egomaniac, a sadist who ought to be horribly ashamed of the sloppy job he did and, is apparently still doing. Yes, I fully agree with the atheists who contend that such a god not only does not exist, but not even deserves to exist. He is (or rather would be) nothing but a gross DISGRACE to the Universe. But, luckily, EVOLUTION IS TRUE and let’s, please forget about your biblical God for good!! He/she is a waste of time.
Why do you rant on and on about your perception of a non-existent God who so intricately has designed your misery and that of the whole human race?
Frederick, can you prove that God doesn’t exist? Also, what proof and evidence can you provide that proves atheism is accurate and correct? Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
My dear Sook Young, Nobody can prove or disprove the existence of a being we cannot even unequivocally define or describe. Can you prove or disprove the existence or Aliens? Of Leprechauns, elves, trolls? Well, I bet you can’t, nobody can. Yet there seem to be hundreds of thousands of humans, if not millions, who do believe in their existence as well as their incredible power for better or worse. It seems to be an incurable part of OUR EVOLUTION AS A SPECIES: we lack the possibility to radically control our fate (we grow old, we die, many of us are beset by horrible misfortune, etc), so we invented all kinds of extra-terrestrial (or rather supra-material) dimensions, so to speak, populated by entities, able to solve a whole host of our problems. God, apparently, is one of them. Philosophers perhaps rightfully contend that not God created man, but man dreamed up the existence of the Heavens and all the beings up there (God, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, the archangels, angels, governors, and what not; you name ‘em).
By the way: whole libraries in this country have been filled with material on this very matter: The reality of God’s existence. Hop over to your local library or even to Google, Yahoo or Amazon.com on your computer and type in these words. I’m quite sure you’ll be inundated by material that’ll keep you busy for the next couple of years, at least!!!
Satisfied? [I won’t do your homework for you, of course. Sorry!]
Oh yes, and now my dearest Mizz Marilyn. You wanna know why I keep fuming and fulminating here like mad? Well the answer is quite simple: POLITICS. Conservative political decisions seem to be consistently motivated by religious arguments. Didn’t your precious George W. B. say that it was God himself who urged him to invade that wretched country, Iraq? Why did we (gays) have to endure so much harassment and other $h…t? (Remember the whole circus concerning Proposition 8 in Calif?). Well, it’s this damned Christian thing that’s still causing us so much headache. I don’t even have to remind of all your bible beating and quoting here: nauseating, boring, annoying, everything bothersome imaginable.
Ah yes, finally: misery is meant for all of us,indeed, Mari; That’s the consequence of being living, material entities. We all die young or grow very old whilst Alzheimer, Parkinson, arthritis, ALS, MS and what not, are quietly waiting for a nice opportunity to grab you or me, like foxes on a rabbit farm. But not to worry; your Loving god is going to solve it all for you, sooner or later…….
Frederick,
Hello my friend,hope you are having a good weekend. Down to business, I have a question for you. what is your opinion about Free Will and Determinism? Also, I asked you in December about your theory on where you believe homosexuality originates.I asked you to respond from your perspective as a Psychiatrist. Awaiting your reply.
Well then since God is not your source of misery but purely comes from political musings and also by default the evolutionary predicament, I imagine you’ll take responsibility for all the earthly evils and place blame where blame is due…the politicians and evolutionist (that would also include the atheist.)Since God is out of the picture—your lovely evolutionary theory is to blame for all your physical ailments and worldly atrocities. Cheers to healthy living!
Good graciousness, Marilyn, now I´m beginning to believe that you´ve totally lost it, my deaR. Really! Did you, perhaps, just drink a few glasses of strong stuff too many or are you really deliberately playing dumbo here? Just reread what I last said. Nowhere did I say that “God”is out of the picture. Quite the contrary. The point still is that I do NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY OF YOUR SO-CALLED GOD. Capice? Or have you lost the capacity to understand plain English? The ONLY POINT I wanted to make relates to your complaint about my persistently negative stance towards your orthodox religious attitudes. And I keep coming back to this matter precisely because YOU AND YOUR POLITICIANS tend to ABUSE YOUR BIBLICAL FAITH to gain power over others who do not share your opinions. Is that clear enough for you? Good grief, talk about a manipulative mentality. I think you’ve become a veritable expert in twisting and turning someone else’s words in a direction that suits you very well. Get a good night’s sleep now and that toxic garbage in your bloodstream will be broken down by tomorrow morning, I can assure you!!!
aH,Bill I’ll get back to asap. Promise!
Oh come on Frederick!!! You can’t keep your argument straight. You’ve clearly denounced the existence of any god but are quick to blame God for all you find offensive to you. Basically sin in my view but that’s besides the point. You’ve been caught!!
That strong bourbon still whirling and swirling within your system, huh? Or, once again your manipulative brain is playing a bunch of moronic tricks on you. I’ll just give it one more try, my dear. Well, for starters, where did you read anything about, what you call “the denouncement of any god?” Reread my answer to Sook Young, for instance. I’ll spell it out for you once again: “NOBODY CAN PROVE OR DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF A BEING WE CANNOT EVEN UNEQUIVOCALLY DEFINE OR DESCRIBE. “
Neither prove, nor disprove, Marilyn!!!!! Does that amount to what you call DENOUNCEMENT OF ANY god? Come on Mari. I you insist , you’ll either have to realize you use words about the meaning of which you haven’t got even the slightest clue, or you’ll have to admit your utter “insincerity”, your dishonesty, my dear (a Sin, as far as I’ve understood your bible). In fact you’re doing what so many “believers”, at least in my eyes, are doing almost constantly. Our German friends call it “HINEININTERPRETIERUNG” , i.e. `’cunningly” slip your own interpretation of a word, a sentence, an event even into the discourse at hand and try to get away with it nicely. That’s exactly what you’ ve been doing here, my dear, but I’m not buying your fish. I’ll restate my main point here for you: it’s not just any god in general we’re discussing here, because that simply doesn’t mean any thing at all. No, we’re talking about YOUR god, as portrayed in YOUR precious bible. That’ s the one I dismiss, that’s the one totally lacking CREDIBILITY, as far as I’m concerned. The emperor with a whole universe of so-called new clothes. And, sadly, you Christians, Muslims, Jews and whatever you want to call yourselves, are still falling for the “infant’s comforter”, the dummy, after all these MILLENIA. PATHETIC, DON’T YOU THINK?
Anti-Homosexual chicken sandwhiches?
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1278626
Oh yes, and what I even forgot to mention: if I would so fanatically dismiss ALL TRANSCENDENTAL REALITY, would I’ve become such a staunch advocate of Taoist Philosophy and Psychology? I really don’t think so, Marilyn!!!
Oh for the sweet and toxic vacillation of Frederick. Reminds me of the glob of mercury spill on the ground or the game whack a mole. A direct quote from Frederick…”God really does not exist, I can assure you.” But still you expand on the horrific human injustices that currently and historically surround you. Blaming it all on God. And then you continue on your ironic tirade, “but to me, such a God himself is nothing but a monster himself, a joke, an egomaniac, a sadist who ought to be horribly ashamed of the sloppy job he did and is apparently still doing.” And then we get another dose of, but of course God doesn’t exist.
Come on Fred!!!
I really did take you to be much more intelligent than you care to exhibit here, my dear Marilyn. Of course, it would seem obvious that you (or rather I) would have a hard time trying explain high-school stuff to a four year old (particularly to a 4-year old [pseudo?] retard), but OK, what the heck……. Now, here goes. Ever encountered the distinction between AN OBJECIVE and a decidedly SUBJECTIVE PHENOMENON? Yeah?
Well, alright for your information, objective just means that a phenomenon belonging within that very category CAN BE CLEARLY OBSERVED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AND its properties be established INDEPENDENTLY of the BELIEFS of a particular individual or group of individuals. Not so difficult, huh? Well, In the case of a SUBJECTIVE PHENOMENON, the beliefs and (possibly the) feelings of persons defending the validity of the notion in question , fully dominate their “validation” of the phenomenon involved. In psychology we call this “face-validation” as the level of “evidence” we’re dealing with here must be considered extremely weak. The evidence, in other words, only exists in the eye of the beholder: other independent parties cannot in any way, reliably verify its (alleged) substantiality. That’s really the crucial point here: dependable verification. If this is (principally) impossible in a given case, the story ends there, completely and permanently.
Now, this is precisely the case with YOUR (BIBLICAL) YAHWEH OR GOD or whatever you want to call him. He is indefinable, unobservable and, finally, “unresearchable”. In other words a TOTALLY IMAGINARY, MYTHICAL ENTITY.
But, but, but and here comes the point we’ve been fighting over the past few days, IF, IF, IF Believers, such as yourself still maintain that He is as Real as Daylight, THEN YOU’LL HAVE TO REALIZE THAT YOU’VE BEEN WORSHIPPING A VERITABLE MONSTER ALL THESE YEARS. Indeed, as I’ve said so often before a sadist, an immoral tyrant, an irresponsible lunatic. Let me explain to you a bit further why I say this. In your bible, in Genesis, to be more precise, it’s said that on the sixth day of Creation God took a closer look at what he’d fabricated and he concluded that it was all very good, indeed. I already mentioned the hideous cruelty in nature itself (“God’s” fine creation, after all, at least according to you believers): eat or be eaten. Have you ever seen a cat mess around with a helpless mouse or a sparrow? Nice sight, eh? And, to quote Genesis, very, very good. Ever heard of a parasite called “liver fluke” ? A real beauty,eh, wreaking havoc within the bodies of a whole host of herbivores such as sheep, cows, goats, horses. Even human beings seem to be visited from time to time by these miracles of your God’s creation (once again: assuming he actually exists!!!!!). And, of course, I could go on and on and on about your Loving God. Oh yes, I can already hear you squeak, NO, NO, NO, NOT MY LOVING GOD, IT’S ALL THE DEVIL’S WORK, THAT OLD BEAST. Reminds me of a certain serial killer’s defense: NO, NO, NO YOUR HONOR , IT WASN’T ME, IT’S ME GENES THAT MADE ME DO IT. And, we haven’t even mentioned that very well-known one: First Sin. Those two poor critters are to blame of course: Adamo and Evita . Take a bite of some delicious fruit and you’ll score a whole bunch a parasites into the bargain. Ain’t it marvelous?
So the choice is yours, my dear Marilyn: either He exists, your LOVING GOD and he’s nothing but misery and incredible cruelty or He doesn’t exist and it’s all just a totally Random Event, this whole damned Universe and everything included. Allow me to pick option number two. Bonne nuit!
You really haven’t answered my questions. Can you answer, “Prove God doesn’t exist.” Also, “What proof and evidence can you provide atheism is accurate and correct?” I’ll still wait for your answers. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Frederick,
Please allow me to piggy back on the topic between you and Marilyn.You claim that evil, pain, and suffering in this world is allowed to prosper by an disinterested God. But that it only occurs if God is real. I fail to understand how the natural inclinations of a cat to play with its prey can equate to a cruel and unforgiving God? It was only after the Fall of Mankind did the existence of toil,suffering and death come into play. Prior to the fall, the cat knew nothing of the need for prey,it coexisted with the mouse in harmony. I can hear you now. Oh Bill, back to the Bible again are we!
Yes, I am the Lion did lay down with the Lamb in Eden.
Lastly, Frederick, I think that you are to intelligent of a friend to truly believe that all existence is just a random event.The fact that you sat at your computer and typed your post is a miracle! Think about the involuntary processes that contributed to your being able to sit erect for a length of time. Your Spinal Column is not a random composition with an incredible neural pathway which sends the stimulation to the brain to elicit the behavioral response needed to disagree with myself or Marilyn.The fingers that type your responses act independently to achieve their goal, that is not a random event. The eyes which give you a window to the world, their intricate functions are not random events. Can imagine if the pupil dilated at the wrong moment? Or the Iris didn’t allow enough light? I could expound on limitless observations, but my point here is to demonstrate the absence of any randomness in all events, and show the presence of Divine Order. An Order, that I am beginning to believe, you will never accept. Your failure to accept it originates from your attempt to comprehend it with a finite mind ,thus creating a frustration, bitterness, and ultimate denial. Lastly, Frederick that is the reason that I offer you up in my daily prayers, with the hope that someday we may meet in Heaven and have a good laugh at all this human futility!
God is merciful and embraces those who truly believe. Take a step of faith—every Christian started there.
Marilyn,
Yes we did, and I am eternally grateful for that first step.
Well folks, I’m presently rereading the first of Neal Walsche’s books “Conversations with God” and once again I must say that IF (yes, mind you IF, IF, IF) such a God would exist, I would feel rather strongly tempted to believe in her/him, and perhaps even try to come ‘into contact’ with her. What a refreshing and original vision. So totally different from all that’s been shoved into you precious bible. It’s so devoid of that rigid rule pushing, that sterile, archaic biblical language that totally estranged me not only from Christianity but from religion in general, As I said earlier, it’s the “Big Brother (is watching you) mentality” , the “infantilization” so prominent in the three major monotheistic religions, that’s put me off completely. I’ve come to detest that “holy” book fetishism as really few other things in American culture. So, although I (would) still have a fair number of critical questions to pose to Neal’s God, should she really exist, his/her message appeals to me infinitely more than what’s included in your bible. Let me surprise you with a short quote from Neal’s book where God says (I do hope I’m not violating any copyright ruling here),
I find it (so) amusing – a source of continual amusement, actually, that you humans have such a need to break everything down into right and wrong. It never occurs to you that you’ve MADE THOSE LABELS UP ……….. It never occurs to you (except to the finest minds among you) that a thing COULD BE BOTH RIGHT AND WRONG; that only in the relative world are things one or the other. In the world of the Absolute, of time-not time, all THINGS ARE EVERYTHING. There is no male and female, …. No before and after, no fast and slow, here and there, …. Left and right and not right and wrong.” (End of quote).
Oh yes, this so delightfully “Taoistic”. Now you see why I’m such an admirer of Zen and the Tao. No dumb rambling about “ heterosexuality is so absolutely good and homosexuality totally bad. By he way the “God” in Neal’s book appears to be definitely NOT anti-gay, hooray. It’s the absence of DUALISTIC thinking I find so incredibly heart-warming.
Now here’s what this “God” says about sex.
Of course sex is “okay” (Again) if I didn’t want you to play certain games, I wouldn’t have given you the toys. Do you give your children thingx you don’t want them to play to play with?
Play with sex. Play with it. It’s wonderful FUN. Why, it’s the most fun you can have with your body, if you’e talking of strictly physical experiences alone. But for goodness sake, don’t destroy sexual innocence and pleasure and the purity of the fun, the joy by misusing sex. Don’t use it for Power or a Hidden Purpose…….” (End of quote).
Bottom line? Sex, be it homo- hetero or bi, should be fun for all parties involved, should be mutual joy, sharing one of the things that makes Life Worth Living (F. H.). Have fun!!! Tonight I’ll have dinner with a beautiful and lovely man, and we’ll see about, uh, afterwards……
Frederick,
Thanks for Neal Walsche’s perspective. I am familiar with him and have given some consideration to his beliefs. Once again this is implying that we accept the human assumptions that are antagonistic to God’s Will. Assumptions that are flawed from their very beginning, because they lack the acceptance of God’s Omniscience, another drawback is the unbridled Relativism. If God had intended Homosexuality to be acceptable in the relationship of the Sexual Repertoire, and Marriage He would have endorsed it in the Bible, as well as publicly.Why did He create Adam and Eve, and not Adam and Steve,or Eve and Rachel? This was not some oversight on the grand scale of Creation,but a definitive template for humanity to follow.
Being “Gay” is a sickness and we should be treating not condoning.
Ah, our dear Genius Carol is telling us something very new and very intelligent. Congrats gall, you really opened my eyes……..
Military to unveil homosexual indoctrination plan
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1282576
Oh, please Bill this is so incredibly tiresome, once again. FOR YOU AND YOUR FELLOW-CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVES the bible is God’s Word. apparently. NOT FOR ME, as you now may or even must have divined….. You may find comfort and certainty in there, I don’t. Approx 90 % is nothing but hogwash, ancient `Middle-East mythology, outright lies and lame promises, only the very gullible will buy, I won’t. Fine for you to adhere to a “literalist” reading of that Adam and Eve story; at least you haven’t lost your Sunday school innocence. I really envy you, you know…….
Meanwhile I’ll just enjoy the company of my “Steve” for as long as I’m able to do so. Sweet dreams for you as well.
Just as you will have nothing to do with biblical truth, it seems as though you have an intolerance and an aversion to hearing really what is going on with the push of homosexuality in our schools, military, homes, movies, television etc as long as it “suits” you. Yes, you even went after a poster who admitted to his struggle with homosexuality with no compassion at all.
Bill, keep the onenewsnow.com coming. I also receive this info. Informative and factual.
Good heavens, I’ve seen that “military indoctrination” article and I really had to laugh, almost ‘till I ached. What on earth has this whole business of granting gays their FULL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS to do with indoctrination? President Obama said,
“No American will be forbidden from serving the country they love because of who they love.” He added, “It is time to leave behind the divisive battles of the past. It is time to move forward as one nation.”
Really, is this what you call indoctrination? Well, I’m beginning to believe you’re not even familiar with the correct meaning of that word. Look it up if you wanna know, for Chrissakes!!!!! It’s not indoctrination, Marilyn, it’s what we call JUSTICE, putting an end to senseless DISCRIMINATION and encouraging SELF-ASSERTION, at last! AND I DO HOPE THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING. Implement the whole damn thing everywhere: schools, clinics, you name it. I say everywhere. Yes, my dear, down with all that hypocritical closet-business. Time to shout now and shout at the top of our lungs. We’ll keep doing it, whether you like it or not. We’ve been forced to endure your biblical imbecility more than long enough. Off you go.
And, talk about “indoctrination” my dear: if you want to know about all the STUPID NONSENSE you Conservative Christians have been DUMPING ON US (AND ESPECIALLY OUR YOUNG ONES) FOR AGES AND AGES AND AGES ALREADY just go the following websites and be surprised. Enjoy……
thewatch.wicasta.com/?p=1136#comments
alternet.org/media/146033/actor_stephen_baldwin_takes_christian_indoctrination_to_the_xtreme?page=6
‘Gays’ in military – force it, then move on
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1283500
Human hurdle awaits marriage amendment in Iowa
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1283476
Like I said, “NO COMPASSION AT ALL.”
NY’s governor faces uphill battle
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1282496
Who’s the broken record here now? Besides, it’s got Absolutely nothing to do with compassion Marilyn, but with plain truth. That’s the subject matter here now. We adamantly refuse to play “MOUSEY” any longer. What that has got to do with (the presence or absence) of compassion as you say, really escapes me. YOU would be very compassionate by recognizing our right to self-expression, one of the most basic human rights, Marilyn. I’m very glad and grateful to be alive in the West and able to say loud and clear, here I am and I want to be taken for who I am and not forced to live a blatant lie. If you’re a genuine Christian, which I’m beginning to doubt you are, you can’t object to that.
It’s still NONE OF THE (SO-CALLED) PEOPLE’S BUSINESS, Bill, who wants to marry whom, so long as marriage concerns an agreement between two fully consenting adults. Period. I fully agree with The Senate Majority Leader H. Sorry.
Hey Frederick,
Liked the articles. We (Christians) are “On course and marching along quite nicely, and can’t be stopped. Does that phrase sound familiar?
No one is forcing you to live a blatant lie, Frederick. That lies purely in your column. Christians answer to God and not a very small percentage of homosexuals who want to indoctrinate innocent children, hard-working self-sacrificing soldiers and compassionate and tolerant born-again, bible-believing Christians.
And thanks for the chuckle I just had, when you said you doubt that I’m a genuine christian—-coming from you. Ha!
No Marilyn Christians don’t answer to God, they answer to a a cold mythical entity, to a HUMAN INVENTION, once again, my dear. Furthermore, there’s no need to “answer to any homosexuals”, Marilyn, because I gather that most of them do not care a damn what you say or think. They just do what they HAVE TO DO: assert their fully constitutional right to let themselves be heard and seen wherever they are and choose to be. Once more: IT’S YOU RIGHT-WING CHRISTIANS THAT ARE CORRUPTING OUR YOUTH by feeding them total lies about (a.o.) the origins of matter and life and bothering them with the ridiculous myths included in your bible, not to mention the completely false promises and threats your bible writers – and now you yourselves- (cared and) care to throw out into the world. And you dare talk about tolerance and compassion, my dear? Well you should hear me laughing now right here behind my desk. You Right-Wing Christians happen to rank among the MOST HIDEOUS BIGOTS ever to inhabit and pollute this planet. I”m quite sure that if you ever had the opportunity you’d gladly take a seat on an Inquisition Board and sentence us to death at the stake, Sure as daylight, my dear. Tolerant and compassionate? Geez, what a joke. But, anyway, let me assure you, we, the gays, will not let ourselves be intimidated one single second anymore by your lame, bible beating, idiotic yapping. As Bill says, we’re marching on as never before in the history of this country. Your attempts at MASS EVANGELICAL INDOCTRINATION won’t affect us one way or another anymore.
And yes, you are the one defending Christianity, day and night, you know what your lord Jesus is supposed to have said, don’t you : LOVE THINE ENEMIES. And, of course, that’s precisely what you’re doing here on the Forum, aren’t you………… I, for one, am a full witness to it, day by bloody day. Yes, Mizz Marilyn, you’re a TRUE CHRISTIAN. You can be so proud of yourself…….
Fred, you talk with such HATRED about Christians, “You Right-Wing Christians happen to rank among the MOST HIDEOUS BIGOTS ever to inhabit and pollute this planet”
Yet, it is Christians that constantly are at the bed-side of the dying, bringing water to the thirsty, feeding the poor around the world, preaching NON-VIOLENT ways to spread the message of Jesus.
YOU PORTRAY YOURSELF AS A VICTIM OF CHRISTIAN CONDEMNATION, yet the real subject here is that the HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY HAS BEEN THE AGGRESSOR BY ATTACKING THE HOLY SACRAMENT OF MARRIAGE.
MARRIAGE-defined as the SACRED UNION OF A MAN AND WOMAN BEFORE GOD IS A FUNDAMENTAL PILLAR OF OUR BELIEF SYSTEM – AND HAS BEEN FOR OVER 5,000 YEARS IN THE JUDEO/CHRISTIAN FAITH !!!!!! (and I don’t care if you acknowledge God or not, that’s between you and HIM)
YOU DARE USURP WHAT IS HELD SO SACRED, BY SO MANY, PERVERT IT AND THEN EXPECT PEOPLE OF FAITH NOT TO BE OFFENDED ??
WOULD YOU SPIT ON THE KORAN IN FRONT OF A MUSLIM ??
I THINK NOT, HE WOULD PROBABLY DRAG YOU THRU THE STREET BEFORE HE CUT’S OFF YOUR HEAD.
YOU HAVE INSULTED THE JEW AND THE CHRISTIAN TO THE SAME EXTENT !!!
YET, BECAUSE WE ARE CIVIL, WE SIMPLY ‘FUME’ AT YOU IN WORDS.
THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY GLEEFULLY DESICRATES WHAT IT KNOWS TO BE SACRED AND REVERED BY SO MANY . . . . AND THEN ACTS SHOCKED WHEN IT RECEIVES SUCH STRONG ADMONISHMENT AND ANGER – WELL YOU RECEIVE IT RIGHTFULLY SO !!!
If you want to live together – go do so, no one will bother you.
If you want to call it some other name – go do so, no one will bother you.
But when you wish to redefine the most basic fabric of our society – marriage and the traditional family – YOU are the one picking a fight. And the now, not-so silent majority will stand against you.
Make no mistake, WE weren’t the ones to start this fight.
You are the disrespectful aggressors.
I pray you will come to see and understand what I am saying to you.
Fred, you have the right to choose right or wrong, its called free will. Jesus Christ said, Come to me all that labor and are heavy burdened and I will give you rest. Jesus invites you to His table, He doesn’t round you up and tie you to the chair. Christians realize that an individual decision is required to come to God. There is no coercion or enticement. Allowing you the choice to choose is love. That choice will not always be the right one. And consequences will follow.
Both Bill and I have given time to pray for you and suggest a different way to look at the homosexual issue. If that makes you made so be it.
I meant to type mad instead of made in my last sentence.
Ah, here I am, once again, at the end of a very nice weekend together with someone very special! Anyway, the “trouble”, of course, is, dear Marilyn, that being (and living) gay, has absolutely nothing to do with right or wrong imo. A Taoist would say, “WELL, IT JUST IS”. Period. That’s why I also think that your prayers (however sweet of you to include me in your moments of “divine contemplation”), will not be of any consequence at all. My “gayness” as well as all the other conditions of my current incarnation [being a lover of classical music and fine literature a.o.), constitute the “Universe’s Gift” to me, personally. My challenge in life and I’m glad and grateful for it. C’est tout, as the “Russians” say. So, to answer you in particular, Bill, I don’t care a hoot about the so-called real root of (my) homosexuality, genetic, non-genetic or otherwise. Do you wonder how your heterosexuality cam to pass? I don’t think so. Besides, as with all aspects of being human, this one (sexual preference, bi straight or gay), will undoubtedly be the result of biological as well as complex psychological factors. The outcomes of research regarding this matter are still dubious and heavily contested. One researcher (e.g. Professor Swaab) is totally convinced he’s found the “real causal link”: a certain hypothalamic substructure, – supposedly – significantly discriminating bi, gay and straight sexual inclinations. Other researchers scoff it all off as purely speculative musing. I really don’t know and frankly, I don’t care anymore.
Does that answer your question? I do hope so. Have a great night.
LOL….you can really almost tell the literalist/fundamentalists and the progressives apart here on spelling alone. Frederick…your views are as refreshing on this tired post as a cool breeze and your correct spelling and grammar are even more refreshing!
Robert Kennedy jr. is currently leading and sponsoring a campaign against SAME-SEX RELATIONSHIPS BIGOTRY
http://www.care2.com/causes/civil-rights/blog/robert-f-kennedy-jr-joins-hrcs-new-york-marriage-equality-campaign/
Liberal Anglican leanings steer many away
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1284234
Wyoming Senate Advances Constitutional Ban on Same sex Marriage
http://www.care2.com/causes/civil-rights/blog/wyoming-senate-advances-constitutional-ban-on-gay-marriage/
afa.net
American Family Association.
Read here what bigotry and homophobia may bring about in the world today
http://www.care2.com/news/member/100041282/2709880
http://www.monitor.co.ug/OpEd/Commentary/-/689364/1099096/-/13qtci9z/-/
And I’m sure these criminal idiots who killed David call themselves Christians, for crying out loud.
Frederick,
Unfortunately, this is what will occurr when you force a lifestyle that is contrary to society’s belief system.There will be those that feel it is their responsibility to resolve the problem, and will take matters in to their own hands. Do I condone the solution to the problem? Absolutely not! But for you to render an opinion that it must have been Christians that carried out this act is preposterous, and grabbing at straws.Your only motive for making such an accusation is that Christians stand in opposition to this lifestyle, and they are immediately available, so they must have murdered him. My challenge to you, and the homosexual community, is prove it, and bury your dead. I am sure that Kato has had opportunity to reflect eternally on the decision to embrace Homosexuality.
I am no longer concerned with the ebb an flow of the Homosexual battle. I can spend the rest of my days trying to persuade about the futility of this pathology. But I have come to see that it is necessary for the drama to unfold as it will. Christians already know the outcome, our purpose is not to try and steer the course the battle takes,but to influence the destiny of where a soul will spend eternity.
Verdict stands, firefighters win…message sent
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1285772
Service contracts will likely stem mass exodus
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1285608
New policy doesn’t protect everyone
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1285652
Once again, Bill it is YOUR CHRISTIAN RELIGION THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST HIDEOUS PATHOLOGIES AROUND on this planet. Nothing but lies, lies, lies and more lies, intolerance and sick bigotry. You worship a 4000 year old IDOL, all the while trying to shove its alleged message and commandments neatly down our throats. But luckily there are still people with sane cabesas trotting around in this country who refuse to buy any of your empty crap.
Your (apparently) favorite site (that onenews thing you keep dropping here on the Forum), mentions the tragic event of a Rutgers’ University student’s suicide, who took his own life after his “tryst with another man was broadcasted online by his roommate.”, without any comment about the cruel, medieval (conservative Christian) mentality that has undoubtedly reinforced this criminal roommate’s attitude. If it had been quite normal in this country for an adult to have whatever (fully legal) rendezvous with another adult, (as is the case in so many Western countries today), this tragic event would not have occurred. Period. You ought to be horribly ashamed of yourselves.
Frederick,
The only shame that I feel is that of the realization that I might have not been a faithful servant of God and possibly someone may have missed an opportunity to know the Living God and accept His gift of eternal Life. I owe no emotional debt to Mankind.
Bill, I stand with you in regard to your last 2 remarks.
Evangelical chaplains may face ultimatum
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1286384
MD looking to legalize same-sex marriage
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1286238
Keeping my finger crossed re the efforts in MD to legalize gay marriage. Would just be another fantastic victory for us. Oh yes and those idiot evangelical chaplains: they’d better put in more energy to keep handguns out of the reach of children and adolescents. In Arizona, for instance, where that horrendous shooting took place recently, laws have even been past permitting guns to be carried in bars, and to allow the carrying of concealed weapons without a permit. How totally insane and stupid can you get. So you chaplains, get to work, at last!!!
A Christian business in the left’s crosshairs
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1286884
National homosexual group targeting Massachusetts to push new “transgender rights” bill via workplace action
Pushing agenda by applying for jobs as cross-dressers
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11a/hrc_tranny_jobs/index.html
Ah, great Bill, thank you for posting. At last, my transgender brothers and sisters will be granted the JUSTICE they so RIGHTLY DESERVE. A million times hooray!!!
Frederick,
Not so fast on the “hooray”, if it passes in the legislature, it will go to a public referendum where it is sure to be defeated.
Those who named the last 4 Presidents as being “great” ESPECIALLY CLINTON, are GAY and want to MARRY THEIR OWN ABOMINATIONS!!
What same-sex “marriage” has done to Massachusetts
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/effects_of_ssm.html
‘Bullying’ just a front for pushing agenda
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1287108
But really Bill what conservative “Christian” folk are trying to do here is itself nothing but “AGENDA PUSHING”. iT’S SO TOTALLY LAUGHABLE. For, just because you do not agree with someone’s COMPLETELY LEGAL WAY of asserting themselves, nothing more, nothing less, they should be stopped asap? Really, your small-mindedness knows no bounds. As I said so often before: in numerous countries in the West, what you’re constantly yapping about (gays saying here I am, closet time is definitely over whether you like it or not) appears to be totally NORMAL in those countries. Only in BACKWARD AMERICA you keep wasting people’s time with this perpetual nagging and squabbling as if there’s nothing much and much and much more important to worry about in this country: the unheard of economic crisis we’ll be facing shortly; the rapidly increasing poverty; the free range fire-arms misery; the general health situation [with obesity, diabetes and cardio-vascular diseases steeply on the rise], etc, etc. These are the things that should be keeping you fretting day by day, not the truly NONSENSICAL ISSUE about gays demanding open recognition and fully constitutional justice. Good graciousness
Horror stories in the schools
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/info/kbase/horror_stories.html
Fred, the “newsreel” here is at the heart of the real homosexual push nationwide. Why don’t you admit the devious actions here and admit the attempt of the homosexuals to overthrow traditional family life and the civil and moral rights of decent people who just believe differently than you. Really, you are not JUST attempting to have the right to marry!
MassResistance files six strong bills in Legislature to protect parents and citizens!
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/govt11/bills/mr_bills_filed_0111.html
The Home Depot doubles funds to gay activist group
http://action.afa.net/Detail.aspx?id=2147502894
http://www.infowars.com/you-might-be-a-terrorist-too/
American Patriot,
Ya got me! I confess I am a Christian Terrorist. I plan on the overthrow of the demonic powers, kingdom that currently has its grip on mankind. It is my goal to destroy the power of enslavement to sin, and free the captives. I profess a sole allegiance to the One True God and lay down my life in His Service, and remain vigilant to His Will and will not yield in spirit or strength until the battle is over. YAHWEH is Great!! And He loves all!!
Frederick,
Here is a little something for you regarding your prejudicial attitude towards Christianity and its alleged history of violence. Of all the deaths and destruction that were committed in the name of religion,there were three Atheistic regimes that contributed to over 100 Million deaths in the twentieth century. They were Hitler (Nazi Germany, Stalin in Russia, Mao in China). Deaths by Christian rulers over a five hundred year period amount to only 1% of the deaths caused by Hitler,Stalin, Mao in the space of a few decades. So Frederick, which is the least tolerant,most violent religion?
Helping Teens Understand Homosexuality
https://livehope.org/resource:50
Is God a homophob?
http://www.behindthebadge.net/articles/a26.html
Illinois pro-family group to fight ‘civil unions’ bill
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1287272
Chili’s in cahoots with ‘gay’ task force
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1288036
Traditional marriage in trouble in Iowa
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1287800
Hateful Homosexual Attacks on Ex-Gays
http://americansfortruth.com/issues/homosexual-hate/hateful-homosexual-attacks-on-ex-gays
Homosexuals in the military are about three times more likely to commit sexual assaults than heterosexuals
http://americansfortruth.com/issues/homosexual-hate/homosexual-rape
‘H8ing’ the Christians: Video Shows Aftermath of Homosexual Mob Attack on Christians in San Francisco’s Castro District
http://americansfortruth.com/issues/homosexual-hate/homosexual-rape
Oh mighty, heavenly manikins, what a total mess, eh? Those horrible, crazy perverts now manage to invade every single, holy corner of our society. They won’t even stop at our dear primary schools’ doorsteps. Ain’t it a shame, a bloody, bloody shime (as the Irish say)? Well I think now it’s time to get out yer bats and handguns and rifles and Kalashnikovs and teach ‘em a fine lesson. After all, two thousand years of preaching and prayer and bible chomping don’t seem to have helped terribly much. Now we’ll have to do it the hard way, don’t you think? And I’m sure you’ll be able to find a whole closet full of terrific weapons somewhere up there in yer attics! This is AMERICA, after all!!!
But please, hurry up, because these nut-heads are now being clumped up into one nasty mob after another, as our dear Bill already indicated. The upshot: your current HYSTERIA AND PARABOIA seem to be fully justified, my dears………..
Sorry, PARANOIA
Joel Osteen tells it like it is – finally
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1288640
But Bill, really , what’s the NEWS that’s being revealed by Joel Osteen? I’m only reading the same old crap about sin and especially about Sodom and Gomorrah , that’s been strewn about for ages and purely historically it’s entirely MYTHS and LIES and you know it. We’ve had this discussion a thousand times before on this Forum, but people apparently can’t stop coming up with endless repetitions of exactly the same deceptive folk tales. Well FYI I’ll present you a very enlightening article re the so-called remains of Sodom. Read it and be shocked. I was, anyhow. But, of course, I’m not an archeologist and historian and would not say that I’m quite sure this is the (absolutely) final truth on mythical Sodom. But, on the other hand, even if the “real remains” of the allegedly infamous cities were recovered, the biblical account of the crucial “events” may still be considered extremely questionable, at best. How, for instance, are you going to prove that Lot ever existed at all, let alone that he and his “loved ones” were visited by a couple of “angels”, who drew the Sodomite louts’ special attention and interest? Come on Bill, total hogwash, all of it. Here’s the link. Enjoy!
http://www.diggingsonline.com/pages/rese/fall/sodom.htm
Frederick,
Thanks for the article it was very thought provoking. One could very easily begin to doubt their beliefs with the evidence provided here.However ,this is where the separation of Faith, the blind acceptance of God’s Divinity, and Reason, the dogmatic belief based on tangibility, part their ways. Did you forget that Science developed its belief system from Christianity? Examine a majority of the early scientists, and you will find Christian influence.
It is irrelevant to me whether Sodom & Gomorrah are ever found. My faith is not contingent upon the arm of mankind for its validation that this event ever occurred. The Bible said it is so, and that is that. Call me naive,but human opinion is inconsequential to me. The Joy of The Lord is my strength. As always, your friend Bill
Frederick,
You mentioned in the post that the article by Osteen was nothing but recycled revelations. Yes, I agree with you,but they are revelations that have echoed the halls of humanity for centuries, and will continue to echo in the ears of mankind until the end of time. Their relevance can be evidenced in the behavior of society today. We have created a belief system that omits God, so we can appease the appetite of our desires. Then we surround ourselves with theories, Grand Masters of intellect that espouse explanations which reinforce our ability to sin without any threat of consequence.
We have become a disposable society.Somewhere,the idea that it is better to get rid of something and replace it with a new one transfered over to our collective mindset. Marriage doesn’t work out, just throw in the towel and get another one. Ooops unplanned pregnancy – get rid of it,after all it’s only tissue.Financial irresponsibility by Corporate America? Gotcha covered there too, we have the backs of the Taxpayers we can lay on the burden of recovering their debt. And lastly, let’s not forget the impotency of our Government and its elected officals that serve us so well.
So Frederick,the warning signs are all around us,all that is needed is for those that have sight, to see the self-destructive path we are on. Those that are able to hear, listen to the Wee Small Voice that is beckoning us before it’s to late. Repetitious, infective, futile? Not in my opinion,. If it can convince one soul to repent and receive salvation then it has an incomparable value. That,Frederick, is why I do it, and will continue undaunted to do it.
Well, exactly Bill, what you’re bringing up here nicely illustrates and underscores the “ideological gulf” between the two of us, so to speak. You want to live by the dictates of blind faith, and for me the very idea of having to surrender to a whole body of ice-cold dictates by a principally invisible super-entity (=your biblical “God”) really gives me the creeps. As I’ve said so often before, to me this would be the end of my “humanness” , my very existence as a sentient being. Blind faith to me constitutes one of the cornerstones of BIG BROTHERHOOD, of outright dictatorship. This is what tyrants such as Mugabe, Mubarak, Lukashenko (Belorussia) want and Stalin and Hitler demanded. No Sirree, I’m perfectly content with my position of critical (and oftentimes fiercely critical) skeptic. In this respect nothing is “Holy” to me, not the bible, not the Koran, not the Taoist writings, really nothing. None of these “products” (of human imagination, in the first place), would be worth even a single dime without the presence of intelligent beings able to study and review them. Please keep that in mind.
Oh yes, and lastly about the ethics of contemporary culture and society. Nothing new there either Bill. Every culture from the primitive Neanderthal hunters community up to our own postmodern high-tech society will have its major flaws and, most of all, its own LIFE CYCLE. The Egyptians came and went, the proud Babylonians came and went, the mighty Romans came and went, the British Empire came and was duly dissolved, eventually, into the relentless cloud of time. So will the Grand American Wonder Culture, nothing but Nebuchadnezzar’s crumbling feet in the claws of time. China’s already crushing our “hegemony” on practically all fronts, bless ‘em. Nothing to do with our so-called failing government, or our supposedly decadent society. Our time has come; period. And please spare me the lame rhetoric about the “end of times”. I’ve been hearing this nonsense for almost three decades already and our dear planet keeps revolving quite calmly around its fine yellow star as happily as ever. Oh yes, as I’ve said earlier the hum species will most certainly go extinct one day or night. But that has absolutely nothing to do with a God or Gods. Simply the course our collective Life cycle, Bill, that’s what!!!!
Frightening Gay Statistics
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/frightening_gay_statistics.htm
NAMBLA
http://www.nambla.org/welcome.htm
Christian broadcaster gets the Canadian boot
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1288796
Well folks, here’s a very enlightening site about the “perversion” that’s commonly called ‘CHRISTIANITY. Read the introductory article by my dear colleague Dr Valerie Tarico, a counseling psychologist and EX-christian, who wrote a fine book by the title of ‘Trusting Doubt: A Former Evangelical Looks at Old Beliefs in a New Light .’
Valerie (quote) “provides evidence showing how the Bible “contradicts science,” how Biblical commands “oppose each other,” how images of God “conflict with each other,” how the Bible stories themselves “contradict each other,” and argues that the Biblical prophecies
and promises “don’t stand up” to scrutiny.”
Enjoy the article. Site sponsored by Amazon.com
http://astore.amazon.com/exchrisnetenc-20/detail/0977392937
Eat Mor Chikin! Send a word of thanks to Chick-fil-A!
http://secure.afa.net/afa/activism/TakeAction.asp?id=390
Frederick,
Well, there are two things that stand out regarding the book you recommended. It states she is a “former insider” to the Christian Faith.well this is an erroneous claim,because once you become a member of the Family of God you are one for life. No one, can take you from the hand of God, whether Tarico realizes it or not God did not turn His back on her, she turned her back on God.
Lastly, the concept of Christianity subverting “humanity’s shared values”? Please don’t make me laugh,humanity is incapable of sharing, let alone having a set of values that can be followed. If Christianity is opposed to them then they are antagonistic to God.
How about the rights of Christians in military?
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Security/Default.aspx?id=1290210
Anti-conservative liberal rhetoric ‘irrelevant’
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1290318
PS: Frederick, Kato was killed by one of your own.Have your evidence in hand before making unfounded accusations.
LaBarbera: Chili’s Restaurant Funds Radical National Gay & Lesbian Task Force
http://americansfortruth.com/news/labarbera-chilis-restaurant-in-cahoots-with-national-gay-lesbian-task-force.html
I’m very sorry Bill, but exactly the same can now be said of you now. You’re jumping to conclusions, whereas you don’t know anything (I gather) about the TRUTH regarding this case. First off, what do you mean by “one of your own?” IF it’s true that Kato was killed by a man who said he killed K because of a “breach of agreement”, the killer was nothing but a common prostitute, a criminal whore and may not even have been “homosexual” himself. You should read up on your stuff Bill: many male prostitutes serving other men appear to be either heterosexuals or bi-sexuals out for a quick buck or two. This may most assuredly be the case in a poor, developing country such as Uganda. (So, that “one of your own”, is a completely false assumption. I’m not a prostitute, as far as I know).
Furthermore, all that’s been reported on that site you provided is HEAR SAY; totally premature assumptions. Has the police been reporting truthfully here? We simply don’t know. We’re dealing with the police force in a country where corruption and primitive prejudice seem to be an integral part of the nation’s folklore. If I have my doubts about the objectivity of the American justice system, I get the impression that “justice” done on the African continent as a whole, may count as nothing but one big, fat joke. Utter garbage. So, this whole lame anecdote about Kato having been killed by a disenchanted male whore amounts to the proverbial crock a bull imho.
Pending court ruling in this case, all we can do is hope for a truly fair trial. But as you may have already guessed, in regard to a country such as Uganda, where a very primitive macho mentality appears to be rampant, this would seem like sheer utopia.
By the way, an absolutely notorious American Evangelical (Pseudo)Missionary group (representatives of “YOUR OWN”???) seems to have contributed significantly to the current climate of hatred against gays in that wretched country (Uganda). See the following links http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2010/01/ny-times-article-links-u-s-evangelical-christians-to-ugandas-kill-the-gays-bill/
And, lgbtqnation.com/2011/01/ugandan-gay-activist-killed-in-cold-blood-were-christians-accomplices-in-his-murder/
A quote from the latter article: When Christian leaders justify the demonization
of LGBTQ people for their sexual orientation or gender presentation, either by selectively quoting scripture and subsequently distorting its ……. meaning, or by reading their own homophobia
back into church teaching to claim that “Gays and Lesbians are sinners,” these clerics are not only exposing a vulnerable minority to religious,political, and social persecution.
They are also exposing their own theology and
ethics as woefully bankrupt and void of spiritual integrity.
Clerics in Uganda and the United States who stoke hatred against LGBTQ people are no longer messengers of God. They have become a MOB OF THEOLOGICAL THUGS.
Frederick,
It is irrelevant what sexual label you place on this individual. He had homosexual proclivities and whether he charged for his performance or not is not the issue here.He was arrested for the crime, he was homosexual, Kato was murdered by him. If this is not a homosexual on homosexual crime then I don’t know what is. Face it you rushed to judgment and made accusations without any tangible evidence. I at least had the support of a police statement, and local newspaper report prior to confronting you.
Your naiveté surprises me, Bill. It’s Kampala we’re talking about here, Bill, not downtown Manhattan. So, once more, we don’t know ANYTHING FOR SURE about this defendant. The police statement here doesn’t count for much, because we don’t know HOW the police in this country (so well-known for its high incidence of corruption) procured any important data about this man.
See for information on corruption in Uganda,
http://www.u4.no/helpdesk/helpdesk/query.cfm?id=191
But there is another, much more important point in this case: the murderer’s own sexual preference is in fact totally beside the point. Did you ever take the “sexual identity” into consideration of a heterosexual serial killer butchering scores of (heterosexual) women? Would you say, ah, here we go, another heterosexual beast on the loose? No, I don’t think you would, or would you??? Be honest here, for a change!! And, oh yes, allow me to, once again, remind you of the case of that Rutger’s University student who committed suicide after his roommate had plastered his name all over the internet together with an allegation about the poor boy’s date with another man. That roommate may have been (a closet) gay himself and full of envy towards our dead guy and his date. Who knows. But the possibility of, what you call, a homosexual on homosexual incident may count as totally trivial here. What is really relevant in this case (as well that of Kato and his murderer) is the SOCIAL or rather SOCIO-CULTURAL CONTEXT within which such things apparently do happen. Although, and I can’t say this often enough, we DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE MURDERER’S REAL MOTIVE(S) for killing David, we do know quite a bit about the (current?) climate of hatred and bigotry towards gays in that godforsaken country, POSSIBLY (yes Bill, get it straight) fuelled by the activities of a bunch of American evangelical morons who’ve got nothing more useful to do , apparently. The hypocrites; they’d better be much more concerned about the gigantic amount of corruption, the really alarming situation there of HIV-infected children there (with 20.000 children newly victimized each year, Bill and NOT BY HOMOSEXUALS, in case you forgot).
See http://savethechildren.ug/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=4&Itemid=89
One for Bill, zero for Frederick.
Frederick,
You keep commenting on those “American evangelical morons” well, Frederick whether you like it or not they have the right to travel to foreign lands, preach the Gospel and morality. Your problem is that the audience is more receptive to the message, compared to those in the U.S, and refuses to allow the perversion to spread. They refuse to kowtow to the homosexual pressure, where we in the United States have faltered. I believe that the issue will reach a resolution of blood shed here in the U.S. also, quite possibly be a part of that which finally brings about the destruction of this great nation. People would rather face destruction before surrender to this pathological lifestyle.
It’s your precious “evangelicals” who’re displaying what you call a pathological and wholly unethical attitude here, Bill. Setting up what they undoubtedly will call a whole contingent of “dumb blacks” (I’ll not use that infamous n…-word here, sorry), against gays who have the full right of letting themselves be known as such. To me it is nothing but an extension of the age-old COLONIAL MENYTALITY where first the Europeans and later on we the Americans invaded territory purely to satisfy their selfish greed (remember where the slaves came from?) as well as their insatiable power hunger (remember how we’ve supported the most despicable regimes right there in Africa through the ages?). And also remember that all of this has always been done with truckloads of bibles for granted and a big, fat smile on “our” faces. And what have those poor (millions of) suckers gained eventually??? You name it: HIV/AIDS, Malaria (still rampant in those wretched dark regions), perpetual threat of mass famine, hundreds of thousands of children dying annually because of undernourishment, not to mention all kinds of horrendous contagious diseases the names of which we here in the US even have difficulty pronouncing, let alone recalling. Yes Bill, that’s what we’ve accomplished with our so-called Biblical Message of Salvation and the Love of our Great Good God. Geez, don’t make me laugh. Two thousand years of spreading your lies and dumb, empty promises around and all those poor sods have retained is a veritable hell-hole of diseases, endless wars almost all over the place, scores of totally corrupt leaders (some of whom, such as our great friend Robert Mugabe, calling themselves devout Christians, for crying out loud), gross injustice toward women, children and folk belonging to ethnic minority groups. And I could go on and on and on. Yes, Bill, PRAISE THE LORD FOR ALL THIS MISERY. Go ahead, do it!!! Good, gracious ditches, the unbelievable cynicism of all. If there ‘d been a Nobel Prize for Grandiose Cynicism, I’m quite sure you Born Again Evangelical Christians would be the First ones to score a big Bingo. First you’ve gloriously reinforced the full economic exploitation of people trying to survive on that horrible continent and now you’re encouraging them to trample gays, because that’s what your so-called Holy Book is telling you to do. Well, talk about terrorism!! My only hope, meanwhile is for the irreligious Chinese to finally open those African eyes and kick y’all out, bibles, sugary messages and all.
Btw, if you want to read more on the role of American “Christian Fundamentalists” on the Anti-Gay Push in Uganda, please visit this site and be appalled. Have a look at the comments as well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04uganda.html?_r=1
Frederick,
Thanks for the article. Normally, I do not read the Times,I do not consider it to be a reliable source for news.I did read the article out of respect. I agree that the missionaries did stir things up a bit, but the People of Uganda have a right to make up their own minds, and did not have to listen to what was being preached. I too, would adopt the measures that they have if someone was to harm my children.I would kill in a heartbeat, forget arrest and conviction,trial by jury – execution on the spot unequivocally!
The response by the Ugandans is no different that those of the Israelites when they fulfilled their duty to destroy a civilization.How a country decides to enact their laws should be part of their sovereignty, the United states has no business interfering. we will be judged on how we keep playing the role of Universal Policeman.You can not use the same logic here that this is a civil rights violation, because Uganda does not have the same sick Constitutional provisions we have. Actually, I am encouraged that they have the fortitude to combat this evil.How long before they are bullied by other countries to acquiesce? Only time will tell, but I will be praying for them.
City leaders push through special rights for homosexuals
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1292816
Trying to stay away from politics until I start making $$ since my computer & phone both quit after I started going to rallies…….but had to comment on the Gay marriage issue being a Federal law…I definately think it would be very wrong for this to be a federal law. If it stays a state law, at least the people who don’t want to have to try to explain to their child how the baby got there when they are around a set of parents who are the same sex will have a place to go………….
Some people just want their children to grow up in a traditional setting. I don’t see why this would be objectional to gays as since they get to live their lives the way they want. Making it a Federal law to me would be shoving it down our throats…………like Obamacare…….It’s not right.
Buyers Guide to See which Pro-Homosexual Companies to Avoid
http://americansfortruth.com/news/use-hrc-buyers-guide-to-see-which-pro-homosexual-companies-to-avoid.html
God, science not wholly exclusive, astronomer says
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1291698
Gay Group Causes Rift at Conservative Conference
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/2011/February/Gay-Group-Causes-Rift-at-Conservative-Conference/
Ah, thanks Bill; now I can send out a warning to my friends over at the more progressive and gay-friendly forums where I’m also posting, about which companies to SUPPORT and which to avoid as the plague.
So, here you’ll find a list of the companies to ZEALOUSLY AVOID, precisely because of their Anti-Gay or, if you like, Gay-Unfriendly policies.
http://retailindustry.about.com/od/retailbestpractices/a/2010-Worst-Retail-Employers-Work-For-LGBT-Inequality.htm
Oh, and if you want to be informed about the LIES so-called family oriented folk are spreading these days, visit
http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2011/01/the-one-where-michael-geer-lies-about-this-site.html
Oh yes, Bill, about that “science and God” thing you’re alerting us to here so (seemingly) proudly. The point that’s still there to be addressed is, even if we assume that the universe or (even better) the multiverse should be considered “Transcendent” in origin, we’ll still have a hell of a time to prove that YOUR BIBLE’S “GOD” (that Hebrew tribal deity) is the one and only First Cause!!! After all, (s)he’s got a fair number of competitors, you know? Uhm, such as Neil Walsche’s God, The ancient Greek Lord Zeus, the Hindu Lord Brahma or Lord Krishna, or whatever fancy name one cares to propose. So Bill, what (or rather who) will be our pick of the day??? Have a nice and fruitful weekend.
Philadelphia church official charged in scandal
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1293442
Homosexuality & the laws of moral physics
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=408758
Homosexual family law
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=888852
The truth about homosexual sex
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=962774
APA revises ‘gay gene’ theory
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=528376
This whole thing about a “gene” being (wholly and solely) responsible for a distinct (type of) sexual orientation would indeed seem fully premature and rather ridiculous. After all, if there would be such a phenomenon as a gay gene, we should already have an idea about the existence of a heterosexual gene, a bisexual gene, a transgender gene and on and on and on. Laughing matter, really. Because, if after a series of meetings with a man I decide that this is the person I want to be with for the rest of my life, I really don’t see any need for a justification of my decision, neither a genetic, nor a psychological one. And, most of all, I also don’t see how I’m harming society by publicly proclaiming the fact that I and this other man are intending to share our lives, as it is called, as well as our possessions. To me it’s such a total non-issue and such a complete and utter waste of time and energy to fuss over matters such as this one, that the only sane reaction to it all seems to me: singing the mocking-bird song. And that ‘s precisely what I’ve been doing on this Forum for almost 2 yrs already. Maybe it’s time to say goodbye indeed(!?!).
I wholly agree w/ you Frederick. I cannot fathom why gay marriage is such an friggin’ issue! We live in a country w/ freedom of religion, speech, beliefs, etc. As long as nobody is hurting someone else, what’s the big deal?
Too much kool aid! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
French display common sense on marriage
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1293050
Ad Charges CPAC Betrays Conservative Principles and Threatens Conservative Unity
http://www.visionamerica.us/cmedia/cpac.pdf
Conservatives begin to see the light
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=263177
a must read for the truth regarding DADT and its implications as told by Military Leaders
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/305110e6#/305110e6/1
‘Gay conservative’ is oxymoron
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1294306
Was America’s innocence lost … or stolen?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=258385
Gay messages built into school maths lessons for children as young as FOUR
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349816/School-children-taught-homosexuality-celebrate-gay-community.html#ixzz1E2a5xNmj
The calls for me to be killed this week prove the bedrock values of our society are in grave danger
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1352024/Calls-Melanie-Phillips-killed-gay-rights-prove-societys-values-danger.html#ixzz1E2bkaIpt
Bill, I suggest finding some neutral articles and sources. Backing up views like yours with articles that are staunchly in your favour is foolish. I have neither the time, energy or care to find articles to play some silly game with you over who can get the most supporters.
In general, I pity you. The fact you are bothering to post swathes of links when this is an issue which you, being heterosexual, should never, in any circumstance, need to worry about is saddening. Religion is about compassion, and your inability to allow people to be happy within themselves shows a deep lack of Christian love. If you feel this is not God’s way, then that is entirely your opinion, but you must agree that denying them their God-given right to free will would not be His bidding.
Frederick,
As I have mentioned before my purpose in this battle is not to indict,but to present a perspective that challenges,informs,and creates critical thinking.As for God’s approval regarding my actions I have a clear conscience, the truth presented here is done in the spirit of love, with the ultimate destiny of where the soul will rest for eternity, as my true focus. Not whether I am right or you are right.
Couldn’t agree more with you, James. What happens here – with Bill’s endless anti-gay posts and links – is precisely what so many conservatives hate about the so-called LBGT MOVEMENT: the (alleged) pushing of a fully propagandistic agenda, as they call it. So, imho we’re dealing with a typical pot and kettle situation here; not terribly becoming for a purportedly very pious Christian, I’d say.
Cardinal George Responds to Homosexual Activist Protest in Front of Holy Name Cathedral
http://americansfortruth.com/
You Won’t Believe Chili’s’ Radical ‘Gay Task Force’ Agenda
http://americansfortruth.com/
Treatment of Male Homosexuality: A Cognitive-Behavioral and Interpersonal Approach
http://narth.com/2011/02/treatment-of-male-homosexuality-a-cognitive-behavioral-and-interpersonal-approach/
The trouble, Bill, is that I do not the least experience your “Crusade” here as an act of Love. No, the only association I do have here is one of reading the sermons of a hopelessly Fanatic Zealot on a purely Quixotic Mission. Believe me, Bill, as far as I’m concerned, you’re merely playing a n incredibly boring “prayer-wheel game” here. Your message is really crystal clear to us by now: you believe in your bible and your god and you’re convinced that the latter hates homosexuality (yes I know, not THE homosexual, pffft…). Well a lot of people aren’t that convinced AT ALL and I have a strong feeling that your efforts won’t change their minds one single millimeter. Quite the contrary: my anti-Christian attitude and, I presume, that of most of my friends will only be reinforced by endeavors such as yours here. Sorry. Well, now you’ll understand why I’m so happy to be alive and well in a FREE COUNTRY and in an ERA OF ENLIGHTENMENT AND FULL (POST-MODERN) RELATIVISM. Have a great day.
Hawaii eyes gay ceremonies after civil unions pass
http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/9000/35107440/Hawaii_eyes_gay_ceremonies_after_civil_unions_pass/3
Repeal on ‘gays’ in military – ‘a ship that’s already sailed’
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1295858
UK to let gays have church civil ceremonies
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Headlines/Default.aspx?id=1296492
Gay harrassment claim found to be false
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1296670
GLBTQ Targeting Youth and Schools
http://americansfortruth.com/issues/youth-and-schools
Melanie Phillips’ article (2-15-11 post) is very eye-opening to the downward spiral of the “victim culture” presented by the LGBT. Simply for stating a difference of opinion she receives death threats. For sure “rights have nothing to do with the homosexual agenda but only a smothering and snuffing out of those who hold a different view”—she correctly describes the civil society spiraling into Totalitarianism.
Let’s talk about hate
http://www.gcmwatch.com/6454/lets-talk-about-hate
Former Navy chaplain sounds alarm on SOTUS gay military dream
http://www.gcmwatch.com/6282/sotus-gay-military-dream
Gay church says its “not gay”
http://www.gcmwatch.com/4456/gay-church-says-its-not-gay
How gay christians really view Jesus
http://www.gcmwatch.com/4940/how-gay-christians-really-view-jesus
The impact of the false inclusion doctrine 2.0
http://www.gcmwatch.com/4131/the-impact-of-the-false-inclusion-doctrine-2-0
An interesting site on (a.o.) THE TOTAL FUTILITY of current Right-wing Christian Activism against the Gay Rights Movement. Voila. Oh, and don’t forget to read the (oftentimes fantastically hilarious) comments!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-krattenmaker/on-gay-rights-keep-fighti_b_823400.html
Frederick,
Once again, thanks for the article.I deem this nothing more but Homosexual propaganda.True Christians know there must be a shaking,shifting of the wheat to identify the chaff, false churches,leaders,beliefs, etc. True Christians are uncompromising, we remain steadfast to God and His Will. We are not respecters of titles,organizations,or militant perspectives. Good day my friend.
Bill, I fail to see how you can call that “propaganda” when the entirety of your material is exactly that, but from the other side of the coin. Your perspective is *entirely* militant, and the fact you are unable to appreciate that suggests you are being blinded by scripture. Please, goodness. There is a harmonious middle ground that the good people of this world are happy to inhabit. I hope you can find it.
Sorry,Frederick,
There is no middle ground in this battle.If my perspective is militant to you,then so be it. My only concern is what God commands regarding sin and our resolution to this curse.
Question: Will Prop. 8 proponents have legal standing?
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1297198
The Agenda: The Homosexual Plan to Change America
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/theagenda.php
Homosexual Urban Legends
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/urban/
Do Homosexuals Really Want The Right To Marry?
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/urban/eight.php
Bill. Firstly, I am not Frederick.
Secondly, what God commands is entirely open to debate. The Bible contradicts itself many times, and it is up to us, as citizens of the modern world, to try to apply relevant scripture any ignore outdated ones. Are you against allowing the blind to become Christians, too? It clearly states in Leviticus (21:17-18) that they are banned. Following scripture to the letter is not the intention of our holy book. The laws within its pages were created by our Lord for a different society to our own. You must realise this.
James,
Sorry about the mistake with your name. as for your stating that scripture is open to debate, I disagree with you. when you allow ambiguity to rear it ugly head then you create doubt in the word of God. This is analogous to Eve in the Garden of Eden.Satan created doubt in what God told Eve,that “surely He didn’t mean that she was not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge”. Scripture is a Biblical record of God and His relationship with mankind. For us to understand it we require the inspiration of the Holy Spirit,or it is nothing but a collection historical writings by various authors, and their fragile perspectives.
To approach scripture with a finite mind and attempt to understand, accept its meaning, is comparable to doing something the same way all the time and expecting different outcomes. That is the definition of “Insanity” I believe. Lastly, to address your previous comment on my denying someone their right to their sinful choices.I am in no manner denying Frederick, and his fellow homosexuals,his right to chooses to live a perverted lifestyle. what I am doing is providing those that care enough to comprehend just what this homosexual plague is truly about, the information to make an informed decision where they stand in this battle. After all, what they decide will affect them for an eternity!
Then, Bill, I am sure you are against allowing the blind, lame and those with flat noses to join the church, too. Do you agree that a rapist should be forced to marry his victim?
The Bible is full of irrelevant and inapplicable laws, and does not account for many advancements in our society. Should we shun modern technology, like the motor car, aeroplane or computer, because they are not mentioned? Should we allow gas chambers and other forms of genocide? These are things that we must decide for ourselves, using the Bible not as a hard-and-fast book of rules, but as a guide to being fair and just with our fellow man.
Also, if you do not wish people to write off your views as right-wing and extreme, I suggest not using terms such as “plague” to refer to the LGBT community. That is unnecessary.
James,
It is irrelevant to me how people discern my perspective. I only need to please God, not man.To answer your question, the blind. lame, and those with flat noses are nothing but physical oddities. I do not comprehend your argument about not allowing them to become members of the church? Are you implying they be denied because of their disabilities? If so, then yes, because that is what the Bible demanded at that time. As for the rapist, you are really grasping at straws there. what you must be driving at is the cultural imperative of that time. Was it right? Was it wrong? It just was, I cannot personally give proof that it was either,but the Bible is what it is, and who are we to think that we know better than God??
For anyone to have any doubt regarding the practices of the Bible only allows room for the enemy to have victory. Lastly, my definitions of this sinful practice will not change, I will not play the politically correct game. So I will not sugar coat anything, I think the sting of the truth here is better than the eternal flames of Hell in eternity.
I am not grasping at straws. I am making the point to you that the Bible is not a book of laws that modern society should follow. It is, as can be seen from those two chapters, backward and even prejudiced against people who cannot change who they are.
When you say “that time”, that is entirely my point. That time is not this time. They are two distinct and different societies. It is therefore left for God’s spokespeople on Earth to guide us, be it the Pope, bishops, or even our government.
What is this “enemy” you speak of? Perhaps you are against economic decline, or the loss of traditional monogamy. I, too, am against these, but they are irrelevant to the point in question. Homosexuals are only guilty of loving another human being, as God tells us to do. There is no enemy here, except hate and discrimination from such organisations whose articles you link to.
James.
Perhaps the ambiguity that the Bible leave us with is the opportunity that God provides us with to draw closer to in fellowship with Him. Your references for guidance are all dependent upon the arm of flesh which is incapable of governing its people. That is why my sole source of guidance comes from the Word of God. If following God’s edict to spread the news about salvation, and sin is hate and discrimination to you then, I and the organizations that I endorse here, are culpable, but will not cease our crusades.
James,
You say that homosexuals are “only guilty of loving another human being”. well, that is true but what you call “loving” God calls a perversion to the spiritual state that he created it to be. Homosexuals are only capable of “counterfeit” relationships. The love they profess is nothing but an illusion created by the father of lies, and he is attempting to get society to buy into it. Satan is the father of lies, he is a counterfeit and the Homosexual community bears witness to that.
I’m sorry, Bill, but I cannot argue against someone who is unwilling to have views of their own, and not reply as if you are hard-wired to ignore every other viewpoint other than one in an old book that is no longer relevant. If you cannot sympathise with two people loving each other, I very much doubt you are capable of such compassion yourself, so my bothering to argue is futile.
If you have children, or ever have them in the future, I hope they are not raised to be as short-sighted as their father. Good day.
Well my dearest folks, Bill & James, imho the most crucial point, consequently not addressed by Bill and his ilk is, how can we know (for sure) that the bible is “God’s Word”, as it is called? We’re being flooded with whole seas of utterly worn RHETORIC, but nowhere we’re being even remotely blessed with just a mere shadow of evidence that we’re dealing with a book inspired by a so-called Transcendent Being (your “God”). As James so rightfully contends the bible is a book that contradicts itself so strongly and so ridiculously, that it might indeed be considered a full miracle that anyone in our day and age with an i.q. above 80 would be willing to take it seriously from A-Z. (Read, for instance, Bart Ehrman’s very fine book by the title of “Gods Problem”, if you care to be informed about a series of really absurd inconsistencies regarding the bible’s handling of the problem of human suffering). Your bible is indeed so full of veritably insane absurdities that its apparent popularity (at least in America today) may count as a total enigma. Or maybe not, as infantilism (and the need to hang on to the dictates and promises of some form of obscurantism tout court, as the French say), seems to be really rampant here. James is absolutely right, I think: millions of Americans would hardly be able to live without the blessings of modern technology, but at the same time they choose to follow the crazy dictates of a (biblical) system fully in accord with the cultural (tribal) climate of the Middle-East Anno 2000 BC!!! Incredible.
Frederick,
Good to see you again. Well, that is the beauty of the Bible.There is no need for it to prove itself,or for any Christian for that matter. Either you are inspired to accept it by faith or you are not.Criticizing its contents, questioning the practices that it reveals, and attempting to diminish God’s Sovereignty only alienates any possibility of your knowing our Creator. Truth be told,there are more people that cling to a feeble belief in this book than you might be aware of, regardless of how ancient it may be.
Lastly, regarding what you determine to be modern technology is nothing but an illusion to entrap the human spirit, and distract it from the true purpose of our being.I would not expect to you to grasp this concept,Atheism lacks the ability to have intercourse with Faith.
Sex – Right Purpose in a Wrong World!
http://www.worldtocome.org/player.html#!Subject=80
U.K. OK with civil partnership ceremonies in churches
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1297204
The funny thing is Bill that although you dare to “dismiss” modern technology because of its so-called illusory status, you still seems eager to avail yourself of its splendors (the internet, a car [?], electrical and electronic appliances, etc). And, of course, the H-word doesn’t apply here at all….. You know, HYPOCRISY!
Furthermore, Bill, no book, be it the Hindu Mahabharata, the bible or Einstein’s writings on the theory of relativity, can “prove itself”. In and of itself a book is a dead thing. Only by critically inspecting its contents you can establish its real merit for you personally. To recapitulate: blind faith is slavery, excellent for dogs and donkeys, but not for human beings. This is what it means to be human and have a Cerebral Cortex, the upper layer of our brain: being able to INTELLIGENTLY INTERPRET the meaning and quality of sensory input. For me personally your bible is nothing more than the reflection of an ancient (and originally nomadic) Semitic tribe’s struggle to find its own place amidst a whole block of very brutal and power-hungry “Conquistadores” (Assur, Babylon, Persia and in the N.T. era Rome). These “Mega Brothers” may have had their splendid cities and very refined culture, the Hebrew, at least, had their Jahweh, the supposed “creator of heaven and earth”, who, allegedly, delivered them from the tyranny of those beastly foreign powers and granted them a very special status amongst the kingdoms of this world. But as I’ve said so often before this is “SOCIO-MYTHOLOGY”, a clever compensation for the many moments of extreme hardship the Jewish people have had to endure. Christianity integrated this “megalomania” into its philosophy of life and death and now we’re stuck with a plethora of dogmatic rules and regulations “God” is supposed to have dictated. What a pathetic mess.
Sorry, should be “you seem”, of course!
Frederick,
Your argument loses any validity when you begin to compare humans to animals. That in itself is a betrayal because humans have dominion over animals. I don’t know how you feel about being compared to an animal,but God holds me, and all Christians, in a much more divine esteem. Any comparison of man to a lower life only sheds further light on the limitations of science and mankind outside of a relationship with God, all built on the sinking sands of futility.
Frederick,
I omitted the rebuttal about being a consumer of modern technology. I may indulge in technology, but it is because God has provided it to me, and I am not enslaved to the “I gotta have it” mentality, and it is not my god.
Homosexual supporters in Britain call for killing of newspaper writer who criticized homosexual lessons targeting 4-year-olds!
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11a/britain_np_0214/index.html
Gay’ hazing charge disproven – sign of things to come?
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1298690
Flamboyantly gay’ couple turned away
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1298636
Teachers letting science point to Creator
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1298706
The joy of teen sex
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1299176
Fox News compromising ‘fair and balanced’?
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1299178
Recently a middle school in Ithaca, NY, cancelled classes and gave the entire day to lectures and discussion groups on homosexuality. A high point in the program featured an eighth grade girl describing her experimentation with lesbianism and declaring how good she felt about her newfound bi-sexuality.
In places farther afield, many school districts now include homosexuality and bi-sexuality as officially recognized and protected life-styles. Though all kinds of life-styles are now “protected,” we should note this: it is no longer possible in the public classroom to affirm normative heterosexual morality. School has become a social power tool for a new definition of morals and social “justice.”
But is this new tolerance the inevitable product of democracy and civic theory or is something else, much more sinister, at work in once “Christian” America?” Whatever it is, by targeting the kids, the future is assured-but whose future?
“Civil Rights”
The normalization of perversion in the federal education system is merely the rippling of aftershock tremors from a massive social earthquake that already occurred, with little public panic, in the Sixties. Seeking human fulfillment, the intellectual elite rejected authority structures, threw over sexual restraints, and captured the popular culture. Patriarchy was declared the great evil. “I am strong, I am invincible, I am woman,” became the defiant battle cry of the “liberated” woman. In just one generation of social engineering, financed by billions of tax dollars, we have produced feminized men, masculinized women, genderless English, and the myth of androgyny, all done in the name of progress and the noble, non-religious, pursuit of “civil rights.”
But the cost cannot be measured by MasterCard, for some things are priceless. It is measured in the fifty percent divorce rate, the destruction of the family unity, the elimination of forty million unborn children, and the proliferation of pornography and its ugly cousin, sexually transmitted diseases.
Mainline Churches
Changing these deep aspects of our humanity, as the radicals know, cannot be limited to the public square. In the main-line churches significant numbers now wish honor sexual perversion with Christian ordination, and their vocal theologigians declare feminism and homosexuality to be at the very heart of the Gospel. Even in evangelical circles (although the heart of the Gospel, according to John 3:16, is God the Father, the ultimate Patriarch, who gave his Son for the love of the world), some egalitarian brothers and sisters refuse to use the name “Father” for God, and declare that the only way to reform patriarchy is to end it. Has the Church lost her mind? Will she lose her soul?
In meddling with sexuality we inevitably touch the person of God, for the creation of Man as male and female is mysteriously tied to the image of God. A recent example strikingly proves the point. At the very moment in the Sixties when sexuality was “liberated,” radical theologians declared that the true and ultimate form of human liberation was to be found in the “death of God.” The God who died was the God of the Bible.
The proof? These same “theologians,” at that very moment, announced the rebirth of the gods and goddesses of ancient Greece and Rome. These pagan deities returned to the West on a magic carpet of Eastern spirituality, unleashing upon America, the very fortress of Christianity in the modern world, a vast program of pagan religion and sexuality, of which we have only just seen the beginning. Radical feminism made sure this God (the God of biblical theism), not Buddha nor Sophia nor Krishna, would die. With chilling clarity a well-known feminist declared in 1979: “The feminist movement in Western culture is engaged in the slow execution of Jahweh.”
Brave New World
A world without the Creator and the distinctions that remind us of Him constitutes the brave new world of religious paganism. In order that this utopia might come upon the earth, all traces of biblical theism must be eliminated. God as distinct from what he made must be swallowed up in the mystical unity of all the religions and the divinity of all things. The endless array of distinctions woven into the very fabric of God’s creative work (not the least of which is the male/female distinction), must not be allowed to tell their old, old story.
A leading feminist thinker announced with disarming clarity the essential method to bring about the undoing of the biblical God: “…using the titles Goddess and God the Mother is probably the only way to shatter the hold of [the] idolatrous male God on the psyche.”
The sexual/theological agenda is gloriously captured in the tile of a recent book on theology by a Roman Catholic scholar: When God Becomes Goddess: The Transformation of American Religion. In order for the “Christian” God to survive in any sense in the third millennium, the message is clear: He must undergo a sex change, and take up His abode in the pagan pantheon! In other words, lose His theistic, biblical identity. Shocking though this is, an important lesson must be learned: the pagans have understood the deep implications of theology and sexuality. For the Church and the Gospel to survive, so should we.
Conclusion
There is a famine in the land of the knowledge of biblical manhood and womanhood, and behind that, of the knowledge of the loving and redeeming God who created us male and female. The Church must understand that the biblical injunctions concerning heterosexual distinctions are not arbitrary commands or optional extras but have to do with the very nature of God in His works of creation and redemption.
In this time of triumphant paganism, our mandate is thus not only to preserve the sanity of personal sexual identity and the cultural necessity of the traditional family. It is also and primarily to witness through these creational structures to the person of God the Savior and to the Gospel. We cannot shirk this responsibility. The stakes are not only for this life but also for eternity.
Gov’t drops defense of anti-gay marriage law
http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/9000/35599466/Govt_drops_defense_of_anti-gay_marriage_law
Better DOMA defense to come
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1300102
Congressman hopes to preserve, protect family
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1299330
Church group blasts Obama for abandoning Defense of Marriage Act
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Business/Default.aspx?id=1300444
Mitt Romney’s Deception:
His Stealth Promotion of “Gay Rights”
& “Gay Marriage” in Massachusetts
http://www.amycontrada.com/
Honoree protected students from conformity
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1299910
What YOU can do to STOP BULLYING OF GAY STUDENTS NOW
http://www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov/adults/tip-sheets/tip-sheet-33.aspx
Duplicity revealed in DOMA decision?
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1300958
Teens tired of ‘hook-up’ lifestyle
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1300638
Defense of Marriage Act: Obama’s Gay Marriage Backfire
http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/10374903/35727788/Defense_of_Marriage_Act_Obamas_Gay_Marriage
http://www.metroweekly.com/news/?ak=5525
Young Boy (pro marriage equality) Counters (anti-gay, anti equality) Bishop
Very interesting article
What does the Bible say about same sex marriage?
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-f018.html
What does the Bible say about gay marriage
http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html
What I Believe (Very rigorous defense of homosexuality by a homosexual christian) Worth the read!
http://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php
Please read here “Why Evangelicalism is failing a New Generation”!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carol-howard-merritt/why-evangelicalism-is-fai_b_503971.html
Frederick,
There ias nothing in this article that surprises me. The chuch has long ago became a prostitute. She sold herself out to secular ideology by getting in bed with the world under the guise of tolerance, inclusiveness, as well as it’s softening approach to homosexuality.God is in the process of revealing his judgment for her harlot ways.
In the days ahead you shall begin to see first hand how God handles His errant children.Being true to His Word, and hating sin, He will allow the church to suffer without the advantage of His protection. Then, you will see how he deals with those that do not accept Him as Lord and Savior, He will allow them the opportunity to repent if they do not accept it will be their last chance to ever receive Salvation.
So, as wise king Solomon said” There is nothing new under the sun”
You know Bill, my first association whilst reading your last paragraph, featuring the sentences, HE WILL ALLOW THE CHURCH TO SUFFER WITHOUT THE ADVANTAGE OF HIS PROTECTION. THEN, YOU WILL SEE HOW HE DEALS WITH THOSE THAT DO NOT ACCEPT HIM…., etc? Well, brace yourself: nobody other than (his holiness) KOLONEL KHADAFFY, the current “Libyan Leader”. Remember what he said about his opponents last week? “I’ll crush these rats, they’ll beg for mercy, etc…….
This is what we call Tyrannical Power Talk, Bill, nothing but a sick, obsessive-compulsive need for REVENGE, REVENGE,REVENGE AND RETRIBUTION. IF GOD EXISTS AT ALL, (s)he, imo, at least, can be nothing other than PURE LOVE. And, Love and Revenge simply DO NOT MIX!!! It’s that simple
But here, mind this wonderful sentence I just found in Neal Walsche’s Book Conversations with “God”, where “God” says, THERE IS NO SUCH EXPERIENCE……. AS YOU HAVE CONSTRUCTED IN YOUR FEAR-BASED THEOLOGIES”! You “should” read the entire paragraph, Bill, or better even the whole section running from page 40 through 43. Such a far, far, far cry from your Fear and Retaliation saturated, medieval biblical rambling.
Finally, Evangelicalism fails, because she (and all Fear and Power infested Biblical “Sermonizing”, for that matter) appear to be totally out of sinc with Reality, the reality of the 21st century, that is. We’ve been treated to your age-old message of sin and the need for repentance for 2000 years already and nothing ESSENTIAL has changed ever since. For all those long, long TWENTY MILLENNIA the same old drone has been echoing throughout the (especially Western) World and the effect? Well, Orthodox Christianity has traded places with Agnosticism and Atheism in the West and with Islam in the Orient. And, sure as hell, Orthodox Islam will be usurped by Moderate Islam and Atheism just as well. Unfortunately, I won’t be there to see that Glorious Day appear my very eyes.
Frederick,
You continue to amaze me by your refusal to understand the relationship between God and His Justice. For 6,000 years God has permitted mankind to experience the consequences of his own self-government.God has now reached the end of his chosen time table, the fulfillment of His Prophecies are beginning to be witnessed by those with spiritual eyes.
In the coming days issues will be of little concern to the world. Our focus will shift to the reality of human survival as a species. We are going to be challenged economically, spiritually, militarily,environmentally,as never before, without any chance to prevent our subsequent destruction. We will be given numerous opportunities to repent from our arrogance. God will increase the devastation until he finally crushes man’s pride, and there will be very few that accept God’s Salvation.
The time is coming when my focus here will no longer be needed, but until that time I will be” a workman proven to be found faithful to his craft”.
House takes on same-sex marriage legislation
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/bs-md-house-gay-marriage-hearing-20110225,0,4789972.story
Help Stop Radical SSM Activists Obscenity-Laden Attempt to Corrupt our Children
( This is a must see!! The exploitation of children as young as 8 years old being used by the homosexual community, using profanity against anyone in opposition to this lifestyle )
http://nomblog.com/2733/
Oh yes Bill it’s totally ok to let 8 year olds fondle fire-arms, but a deadly sin to tell them the truth about sexual preferences. What a laugh!
I don’t know about where you live, but we let them under adult supervision. We also teach them to fish too! what more can you want,God your gun and a fish on the fire..
Likewise they can very well be educated on the topic of sexual preferences: SOME LIKE WOMEN, SOME LIKE MEN.(The “Gospel” according to St. Marilyn Monroe [Some like it hot], remember?) It’s as simple as that. No harm done at all.
“No harm done” Those words sound vaguely similar to what Satan said to Eve. Sorry, Frederick, that camel will not put his nose in this tent.
And Bill, dear man, what can I say? Really, who could take a man seriously who still believes that 6000 years story? That’s what amazes me so much, Bill about the so-called Born Again Christians: their stubborn refusal to get their sorry heads out of their 2000 year old desert sands and come to their senses at last. Indeed I see and hear intelligent grown-ups still preaching totally ridiculous nonsense about “god” who’s going to put an end to man’s wicked ways and bless us with a whole collection of beastly apocalyptic horrors. An idea which again proves my point concerning the ludicrous assumption of a “Loving God”, apparently terribly eager to let mankind suffer no end because of its alleged unpardonable loathsomeness. It’s as if I’m hearing some ancient psychotic prophet bawling his head off about god’s imminent and final wrath, for crying out loud. And Bill, once again, we’ve heard this so often before, notably at the beginning of both World Wars and, see for yourself, mankind is still here, alive, kicking and fighting as ever before. Well, we’ll see.
Gays Who Don’t Want Gay Marriage
http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/10374903/35880402/Gays_Who_Dont_Want_Gay_Marriage
Boycott growing: 500,000 pledge to boycott The Home Depot
http://action.afa.net/item.aspx?id=2147496231
Comprehensive sex-ed – here it comes
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1301602
Maryland activists lose first found of “gay marriage” battle. But big showdown in General Assembly still coming up.
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11a/maryland_0208/update_0221.html
Liberty Counsel – Obama Betrays America by Refusing to Defend DOMA
http://americansfortruth.com/issues/civil-unions-gay-marriage
Frederick,
My dear friend, remember I told you that my time here in this forum would soon be over? Well God has told me it is time to go. I have enjoyed our fellowship, along with the spirited exchanges we have shared. My departure should not be viewed as futility on my part.
Before I leave, I would hope that someday before you leave this world
that someway you would come to know the love of God, and accept His gift of Salvation. Frederick, none of us knows how much longer we will be here, and how many chances we are going to get to accept God. Well my brother, I love you as a Christian,but will always hate the sin.
Your Friend always,
Bill
Yes, of course, Bill. There’s a time for every creature and every event and activity to “dissolve in the mist of time”. Thank you very much for creating the opportunity to be open and clear about my feelings and convictions regarding “transcendental reality”. It’s quite clear to me now (and has been for a long time already) that your biblical teachings have nothing significant to (me myself, at least) except the invitation to love my neighbor as I do myself. That’s really the only rule or commandment or whatever you want to call it, that speaks to my heart and I gladly try to uphold. “God”,as portrayed in your bible, if (s)he exists at all, is a total stranger to me, whose presumed presence and love I do not feel and thus cannot acknowledge and honor. Sorry. What I believe is that every single soul, assuming the soul is a living entity, will ultimately find its own path and destiny through eternity. No need whatsoever to seek any strict guidance through the bible, the Koran or any other so-called holy book.
The soul creates its own light and chooses its own pace and destiny of evolution. No standard, ready-made “pill” for everyone to swallow, on pain of eternal damnation. For the latter, ETERNAL damnation, would be totally BARBARIC and, most of all, completely USELESS. You’ll find a number of very instructive and beautiful passages on this issue in Neal Walsche’s CONVERSATIONS WITH GOD (book One and book Three and COMMUNION WITH GOD). Read these books and be surprised and enlightened.
Good-by and good luck!
I have the feeling you are the one who will be needing luck…..
Of course, CumIncense. That’s exactly right. And as I take it, you’re a very fine and pious Christian I do hope, or even more, I’m quite sure you’ll pray for me in the weeks ahead, day and night. I’ll be blessed as never before, Mr (or Miss?) Two Cents…… What more can a Man wish for?????
exodusinternational.org
narth.com
You were not born that way, but even if you were, it doesn’t make it OK. You can be changed, but change is difficult when all the media around you enslaves you to believe that you cannot.
Arguments about the beliefs of the founding fathers will be irrelevant after you die. What will matter then is whether YOU believed or not.
That Christianity provides more freedom than atheism or other religions is obvious: compare Saudi Arabia, the former U.S.S.R., and the U.S. This does not mean that all the freedoms in the U.S. are from Christianity, but all the freedoms that make the U.S. great are from Christianity.
However, freedom is not man’s chief end. If you spend your life searching merely for freedom, you will be a slave to someone.
•Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”1
•Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them”
•1 Cor. 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
•Rom. 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”
Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
On sex issues in elementary school: “Goal is to reach kids before they absorb their parents values,” says school administrator!
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11a/herald_sex-ed_032411.html
The Homosexual Classrooms Act
http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/2011/03/homosexual-classrooms-act.html
Unbelievable: US Marines preparing to indoctrinate soldiers to accept homosexuality
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11a/DADT_marines/index.html
Hoosier State at risk until Senate acts
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1318228
Up from Homophobia. It’s possible: an army sans bigotry, allowing gays to successfully integrate (within the army or anywhere else)!!!
http://reason.com/archives/2010/12/06/up-from-homophobia
Radical “transgender” bill being rushed through Maryland legislature
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11a/maryland_tranny_bill/house_0326.html
Homosexual indoctrination bill advances in CA
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1319544
Arkansas case: Children’s needs vs. adults’ wants
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1319426
Read here how it’s done in TAIWAN: the integration of gay issues into the curriculum of elementary and junior high schools. Yes, that’s what I call a really civilized and highly developed country, an example for the USA!!!
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2010/03/08/247310/Gay-issues.htm
Also, Taiwan isn’t a Christian nation either moron! You are very ignorant and don’t care about how others may feel about this or about subjecting their children to something that isn’t necessary for them to learn in the classroom. Just another lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist. Don’t forget to read these:
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Romans 1:26-28
1 Timothy 1:8-11
Jude 1:7
James 14:7
Pick up a Bible for once and read it or you’ll feel some serious heat in the end (literally). FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Samurai,
Greetings my Brother in Christ! we must remember where these individuals are coming from with their misguided beliefs. They are lost, separated from God, and cling to the lies of Satan that they believe to be truth. They live under the delusion that Humanism will be the world’s savior, the day will come when their killing Christians will seem like they are doing God a service, only on judgment day will they realize their deception of their actions, – removing the only source that truly cared about them that could lead them to God’s gift of Salvation!
True that! True that! You should check out the rant he gave me a postings down. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Yes, a truly civilized and highly developed country that has chosen the wide gate with the broad road that leads to destruction. I am so thankful that I serve a loving God that has revealed to me ahead of time the destructive ideology that mankind will choose, I am so grateful that I may be privileged to see the spiritual dynamics unfolding that will ultimately seal the fate of Satan and his followers! – To our Blessed Messiah be the Glory !!!
Support for ‘gay’ rights rising among Catholics
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1320132
In-flight movie offensive, insensitive
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1319938
Incarcerated parents’ treatment ‘appalling’
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1319986
Exclusive: AFTAH Interview with Liberty Counsel’s Matt Barber (Truth Academy Speaker)
http://americansfortruth.com/news/exclusive-aftah-interview-with-liberty-counsels-matt-barber-truth-academy-speaker.html#more-9007
Homosexual Lobby Angry At Public Advocate’s Eugene Delgaudio for Victory March Into Maryland
http://publicadvocateusa.org/news/article.php?article=6687
Oh good Heavens, our IDIOT SAMURAI “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY” is at it once again. What the hell do I care whether Taiwan is a Christian country (whatever that may mean, anyway) or not. Your narrow-minded, primitive and stereotyped way of reasoning just makes me shake with laughter. Sorry for you mate, but the train of our liberation is right on track and no conservative Neanderthal tax cheater and planet polluter is going to stop us from claiming our fully Constitutional Rights. Yes, I’m a lib and you’re a con; so what? You’re not going to impress me anyway whith your cheap name-calling, mate. Just grant yourself a very good look into that bathroom mirror or yours and see how much of a Christian you yourself really are. LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, remember? That’s precisely what you’ve been doing here, time and again, ha! Your bible beating is just as ridiculous as your ignorance about the “real” meaning of those bible verses you cared to mention. Hop over to your public library and catch up on your reading. See, for instance, Linda Patterson’s well documented book, Hate Thy Neighbor: How the Bible is Misused to Condemn Homosexuality and be educated at last!
Well, well, well, what do we have here? A person from another country who thinks he knows our country and founding better than we do. Not in this case. We were founded a Christian nation and will be forever such. You talk about freedom? What can you possibly know about freedom? The freedom that you libs talk about leads to nothing more than being slaves to the powers that be at the time. I’ve helped people fight for their freedom while serving in the military, how about you? What? Didn’t have the “nads” to do that? Another coward on this site. Second, you say things about the verses that I’ve posted? Well boo hoo! We both know that what the Bible says is truth and has never been proven wrong, though some people argue otherwise. You talk about other countries accepting gays, but those countries are just shadows of their former selves. Many nations in Europe are much weaker than they used to be. Their morals and ethics they lived by have decayed and their economies are almost broke. This sounds like God punishing them for their ignorance, now doesn’t it? Third, a Christian (no matter who the person is) is to be unwaivering in their beliefs. Times may change, governments may change, and secular humanist beliefs may change over time, but the Bible doesn’t. As far as the book you cited, I’m not even going to waste my time reading trash like that. I’m a historian and tend to read books that are factual in nature. In fact, you have told so many lies on this site that it would be hard to rebut you on all of them. The only one that has told more lies than you are satan, demons, and Obama bin Laden. Take your false beliefs and get lost! Stop telling us that gays are an acceptable way of life when they are not! You wonder why so many of us are against you? Are you ignorant enough not to know that when you do something that is against the norm, or isn’t normal, you are always bound to encounter resistance. You think we Christians are being bad concerning gays, just look at the muslims. If you are gay you are dead meat. Christians don’t kill people because they are gay, we just want them to take their reprobate lifestyle and get lost. Just remember these sayings:
“It is religion and morality alone, which we can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand.” John Adams.
“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” George Washington.
“I have always said, and will always say, that studious perusal of the sacred volume will make us better citizens.” Thomas Jefferson.
FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Ah, our hero Samuraji. Well, where did your exhibit your incredible heroism? In Vietnam? Well, hop over to the site here below, to see what your mighty heroism, causing our troops to gloriously and proudly retreat in ’75 (….), brought the poor Vietnamese people eventually: Lord AGENT ORANGE
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4494347.stm
Fine Christian War, eh? Exactly what your Jesus would have ordered: slay ‘em all with your magnificent chemical filth. Very Christian-like indeed!!!
Freedom, you say? What Freedom? Oh yes freedom to further cultivate the glorious chaos and ongoing sectarian war in that poor, wretched country, instigated by your all-time conservative “hero” George W. B. …..
pinione.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-bush-administration.html
And yes “freedom” especially for women over there, whose position within Iraqi society has significantly deteriorated since the invasion in 2003. Bagdad Professor of political science Maha Sabria, for instance, makes a direct link between the deplorable status of women in Iraq to the lack of infrastructure, political and economic stability, and security. She believes that women bear a “double burden” as they have lost many of their freedoms due to, and under, the US occupation!!! See the following site
english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/03/201031965344341860.html
And, not to forget, “freedom” to be stricken by hideous birth defects due to the deployment of highly poisonous (a.o. phosphorus based) weaponry by our fine AMERICAN TROOPS. Here’s your site
english.aljazeera.net/programmes/rizkhan/2010/03/20103107149294910.html
And I could go on about that fantastic war in Afghanistan, dragging on for almost a decade now, where, in fact, the Taliban are still causing and encouraging the abuse and murder of scores of women and peace loving men, particularly.
Oh yes, lest I forget, of course you acknowledge the fact that all these “great” wars, generating thousands upon thousands of casualties, have been lavishly endorsed by you and your buddies, the CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS. Quite clearly to honor GOD AND COUNTRY……. My dear man, you should hear me laughing behind my desk right now. Really unbelievable. But anyway, I’m quite sure your next president the honorable moron Glenn Beck aka Mr. Cro magnon will surprise you one day with a very special medal on account of your unsurpassed heroism shown somewhere on the planet. I’ll drink to this tonight, my dear.
Finally, your bible, a veritable miracle in itself, eh, with all its lies, myths (many of which were stolen from the Babylonians and the Egyptians, anyway; read Gary Greenberg’s book “Myths of the Bible” and be in for a shock), as well as really outrageous absurdities, such as the story of Jesus and the fig tree (Mark 11: 12-14), a totally insane episode Mark or someone else who wrote this so-called Gospel must have dreamed up after a few cups of strong wine too many.
So Mr Samu, aka Agent Phosphorous, I won’t keep you much longer as I’ve been told you’re preparing for a trip to Libya to, once again, teach those hard-headed Arabs a fine heroic lesson or two. Bon voyage; I’m sure the NYT will do a fine article on you one of these days. Rest assured………
Gay use to be a wonderful word for happy.Now it signifies an aberration.The notion that gays can marry is a queer one indeed.In fact there is something very queer,very strange and odd,about the entire situation.
This is a massive movement to have legitimized something they “desire” but it is self evident to any who can reason that it is a crime against nature and for anyone who understands the function and purpose of the generative powers there is no word to describe its gross moral evil.
What if the federal government said they can marry and the States or some of them said they couldn’t marry.Or what if the Federal Government said they could marry and all or some of the States said they couldn’t?It is easy to see the state of affairs we are in.The Federal Government said what marriage is under DOMA.However the conclusion or inference to be drawn is that homosexuals and lesbians can’t marry.Enforce it.
The Federal Government has said that such unions are unlawful.
There is nothing lawful about them at all.And the civil so called non marital unions should not be recognized by cooperations or anyone else for purposes of pension or benefit claims.
Yes there is something very queer going on and it is what lies behind this aberration and encourages it and finances it.
Now who do you suppose that could be?
I wouldn’t waste my time mentioning morals or religion.
And if you are going to argue against this grave moral evil and crime against nature then don’t bring up any so called religious arguments.The pants can be beat off them from numerous fronts.They have the money,the lobbying,the courts and legislatures,and the powers that be behind the scenes who constantly wage war on the moral foundations of this country.Obama is a good example.In fact you couldn’t find a better one.
Homosexuality is just another LIE that normal society must confront and do its best to eliminate and eradicate.
This will eventually end up in the SCOUS.I can’t wait.
You talk about “reasoning”, but I have not been able to find even one single rational argument included in your ranting. It’s all completely arbitrary and emotionel babbling, you cared to share with us here. Take, for example, the point you make about the “unnaturalness” of homosexuality. Where is your proof? What do you mean by “unnaatural”, or as you put it “a crime against nature? Numerous studies and books have been published presenting evidence for the existence of structural homosexual object choices within the animal kingdom. Homosexuality can be found everywhere in nature and constitutes a fully natural phenomenon in scores of species across this planet. So, to me it’s just brainless blathering to contend that homosexuality is a lie. What is that supposed to mean anyway? You very obviously do not know what you’re talking about. Have you ever read anything about ancient GREEK culture, about the ost civilized era in Western history, when really very great philosophers such as Socrates, Plato and Aristoteles were still around? Well, right then and there homosexuality was a completely “normal” social phenomenon, probably, not a single soul batted an eye about. Problems began, really, really began with the advent of the Jewish religion and later on Christianity, as a matter of fact. As I’ve said earlier, the main probleme concerning this entire issue is not homosexuality as such but RELIGION; the poisonous influence of religion. And we all know how strongly CONSERVATIVE AMERICA is obsessed with religion. An incurable disease, religion, that is.
Transgender bill unlikely to pass senate
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/2011/03/transgender_bill_goes_to_senat.html
No ENDA in sight
http://www.onenewsnow.com/
Indiana marriage amendment makes progress
http://www.onenewsnow.com/
‘Homosexual wedding’ charge upheld
http://www.onenewsnow.com/
Michael Brown: “Something Queer Happened to America http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/2011_04_01_archive.html
White House “safe schools” czar Kevin Jennings: How he pushed the homosexual agenda to kids in America’s schools
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/issues/kevin_jennings/index.html
Have a peek at this site warning us gays (and especially the young among us) against this very deceptive “wolf in sheepskin” site with a lot of misleading “sweet talk” addressed at gay youngsters.
Gay brothers and sisters, expecially, Read This!!!!!
http://www.ralliance.org/FreeToBeMe.html
2 male Marines publicly kissing each other
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=283225
Consistently POSITIVE EXPERIENCES with gays in the military. Read here about the results of Scientific Research!!!
What Does the Empirical Research Say about the Impact of Openly Gay Service on the Military?
Research on openly gay service is extensive, and includes over half a century of evidence gathered by independent researchers and the U.S. military itself, as well as the study of the experience of foreign militaries. The U.S. military’s own researchers have consistently found that openly gay service does not undermine cohesion, and the military has repeatedly sought to condemn or suppress these conclusions when they emerged. Yet no research has ever shown that open homosexuality impairs military readiness.
http://www.palmcenter.org/publications/dadt/what_does_empirical_research_say_about_impact_openly_gay_service_military
How would you know? Since you’ve never been with the military, you don’t know what you’re talking about (just like a lib). Where did I show my courage? The whole 20 years I served this country, something that you weren’t honorable enough to do. You say the Bible is full of lies, yet the sources you’ve posted are full of nothing but rhetoric, inuendo, and bald faced lies. No one has been able to prove the Bible wrong. Look up these verse and you’ll know what I’m saying:
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Romans 1:26-28
1 Timothy 1:8-11
Jude 1:7
You can also look at this cite:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qre8bfz4drA&feature=related
This will help correct some of your misguided beliefs about their immoral and unnatural lifestyle. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
(offensive comment removed)
You’re lucky your lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist comment was removed. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Homosexuality: Nature, Nurture and Compassion- (I enjoyed reading it) Comprehensive examination of the possible explanantions for homosexuality
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/homosex1.html
‘Gay’ activism — the antagonist in culture war
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1324048
PA pro-family group in the fray to protect military
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1324046
Marching in lockstep to a radical agenda
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1324768
Dems ‘flush public schools farther down the toilet’
Family group warns of consequences of ‘sexual brainwashing’ billhttp://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=283849
California Bill SB48: Would require public schools & textbooks to portray homosexuality and transgenderism in positive light!
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11b/CA_bill_SB48/index.html
Oh, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT Bill, very good news indeed about the imminent passing of California’s Bill SB48. At last, justice for Gays in the sunny state. “Prayers” answered!!!!! Bravo!
Ministry urging Pentagon to ‘pause’ on LGBT law
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1324770
Study: US has 4M gay adults; 1.7 pct. of populace
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1325374
Nashville law protects contractors’ ‘gay’ workers
http://www.personalliberty.com/news/gay-marriage-divides-gop-19201739/#comment-408395
A very courageous and encouraging PRO GAY YOUTH speech by Forth Worth, TX City Councilman Joel Burns . Watch, cry and be hopeful A very POSITIVE MESSAGE!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stefan-sirucek/texas-city-councilman-tel_b_761659.html
Christian Right Leaders Return to War Room over DOMA
http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-right-leaders-return-to-war-room-over-doma-49711/
Archaeologists find ‘gay caveman’
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8233884/archaeologists-find-gay-caveman
Ark. court strikes down law barring ‘gay’ adoptions
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1325532
DAY of SILENCE WALKOUT – April, 15 2011
http://www.doswalkout.net/
(Stephen Bennett Ministries) has been helping individuals for over 11 years to understand the truth about homosexuality from a biblical and practical perspective. SBM provides clarity and truth on a politically charged and driven social and sin issue.
http://www.sbministries.org/members/sbm
Homosexual influence = ‘tyranny of the minority’
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1325552
Read here how so-called reparative gay ministers are EXPLOITING AND ABUSING GAY MAN for their own Financial and/or sexual gain. Really shocking hypocrisy by sick “Christians”.
http://www.thegaymanifesto.com/2011/03/22/ex-gay-ministry-destroys-more-lives-reparative-therapy-pastor-rapes-8-young-men/
Sorry, should be MEN
And, just shocking, maybe even more hypocritical:
Gay & Lesbian Community Confronts Paid “Ex-Gays” In Colorado Springs Vanguard Church
Vanguard Church, a Christian bastion of homo-hate in Colorado Springs, hosted a discussion between volunteers from the Pikes Peak Gay and Lesbian Community Center and paid “ex-gay” employees of the international corporate Christian hate groups Focus on the Family and Exodus International.
http://www.thegaymanifesto.com/2010/04/13/gay-lesbian-community-confronts-paid-ex-gays-in-colorado-springs-vanguard-church/
Congress told ‘gays’ won’t change military much
Rep tells service chiefs: Forget political correctness, ‘you can stop this still’
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=284741
Child psychiatrist and former “transgender” give bold testimony against radical California bill SB48
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11b/CA_bill_SB48/senate_0405.html
This weekend’s “Truth Academy” in Columbus OH featured all-star lineup of speakers
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11b/truth_academy/index.html
‘Day of Silence’ Walkout – Parents, Don’t Feed the Pro-Homosexual School Beast
http://americansfortruth.com/
APRIL 15th, 2011 – Remember Every Student Absence Costs the District MONEY !!!!
GREAT NEWS: Gay candidate James Cappleman wins Chicago City Council Race (March 25th). Let’s hope many other cities will follow
http://www.gaypolitics.com/2011/04/05/breaking-gay-candidate-wins-chicago-city-council-race/
LISTEN: AFTAH Interview with Barb Anderson — Discusses Radical Sex Ed and School Promotion of Homosexuality
http://americansfortruth.com/issues/youth-and-schools/glsen/day-of-silence
Transgender men housed with women in slammer
‘Sexual anarchists’ forcing female detainees
to be jailed with ‘seriously confused’ males
http://www.wnd.com/
Outrage as top Italian history professor blames fall of Rome on rise of homosexuality
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374823/Outrage-Italian-history-professor-blames-fall-Rome-rise-homosexuality.html
‘Free-speech zone’ not really free, says pro-life preacher
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1326184
New campaign sets goal of restoration of marriage
Ministry leaders say Obama abdicated responsibility by abandoning federal law
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=284809
Coed showers coming? Lawmakers push ‘equality’ plan
Would ban ‘discrimination’ against men using women’s public facilities
You would think with the way the world is that our politicians would have more relevant issues to deal with. No wonder our world is in the shape it is in.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=283877
Genuine imitations
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=284801
Oh yes, of course, there we go. An Italian history professor lays the claim: the gays have done it again. They are to be held accountable for Carthage’s downfall. And, my friends, don’t forget Babylon, Rome, Greece, colonial Britannia, Spain, Holland, you name it. All of ‘em went down the drain because gay men were perpetually engaged in sex orgies. Great, eh? Very convenient scapegoats, don’t you think? Never mind the mega-corrupt governments and merchants, the perverse, power-hungry military leaders, permitting their footmen to rape and then kill thousands upon thousands of women and children where-ever they landed and torture and kill the men or turn them into slaves.
Yes, and mind you, this so-called academician, is from a country (Italy) practically and structurally ruled by the MOB. Where the prime-minister , the “honorable” Signor Silvio Berlusconi has recently been dragged into court because of allegations regarding sexual orgies with minors (girls under age, that is) as well as on accusations of major fraud, all of which he flatly denies and connects to foul intentions and ill-will from the liberal lefties in parliament as well as the judicial system. A full-time clown this man, a joke of a statesman. But I’m sure the professor adores the man for his fundamentally right-wing positioning and his alliance with the Vatican. Talk about Christian hypocrisy!!!!
Officials won’t let past haunt new employeehttp://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1326206
Dumbing down for the Day of Silence
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=285601
Bible scholar ‘exposes’ Christian fraud
Eminent scholar, Professor Bart Ehrman has written an explosive book about a lot of lies and forgeries to be found in the New Testament. Book’s title is FORGE. Really shocking and revealing. Read it!! See website below for details
http://freethoughtnation.com/contributing-writers/63-acharya-s/504-bible-scholar-exposes-christian-fraud.html
Future of coed showers decided by lawmakers
Vote determines future of ‘equality’ plan that bans ‘discrimination’
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=286105
How Did this Happen? Why Same-Sex Marriage Makes Sense to So Many
Same-sex marriage is not an idea that emerged from a vacuum. The project of normalizing homosexuality has deep roots and ideological momentum.
http://www.albertmohler.com/2011/02/28/how-did-this-happen-why-same-sex-marriage-makes-sense-to-so-many/
Love In Action
Finding Freedom in Jesus Christ from sexual and relational sin.
http://www.loveinaction.org/
PFOX Day of Silence Supports Ex-gays
http://www.vcyamerica.org/crosstalk
Why homosexual adoption is not a right
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/why-homosexual-adoption-is-not-a-right
J.Crew Ad Showing Boy With Pink Nail Polish Sparks Debate on Gender Identity
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/11/jcrew-ad-showing-boy-pink-nail-polish-sparks-debate-gender-identity/
Geez, for crying out loud, Bill. Doesn’t hysteria abound in America these days? A 7 year old boy lets his toenails be painted pink by his mom and half America goes, more or less, berserk over the whole thing. If he turns out gay or transgen in about a decade mom will have to bear the blame, no doubt. I’m sure there’ll be a warning hidden somewhere in that bible of yours, the poor woman should have heeded. Mon dieu…..
Beware who you sleep with: herpes symptoms not always visible
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/health/2011/04/beware_who_you_sleep_with_herp.html
Shock blogger Perez Hilton to pen children’s book
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/12/perez-hilton-childrens-book-antidote-poison-pen/?page=3
What’s next for marriage in California?
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1328570
Service chiefs encouraged to avoid additional ‘risk’
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1328736
Pronouns — ethics commission’s main concern
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1328478
Breaking: Homosexual GLSEN-’Day of Silence’ Facebook Page Linked to Pornographic Gay Male Hook-up Site
http://americansfortruth.com/
The Gay Agenda Marches On
http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/2011/04/gay-agenda-marches-on.html
And so does the “Christian Hate the Gay Cause” Agenda, but see this below, thank heavens
Anti-Gay Adoption Bill Shot Down In Illinois Senate Committee
A bill that would have allowed religious organizations to deny gay couples adoption and foster care services was voted down in (Illinois) Senate committee Wednesday!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/13/antigay-adoption-bill-sho_n_848685.html
Simple solution to this is merge with agency that is not dependent on public funding.
Facebook kids campaign links to ‘full frontal nudity’
You won’t believe what children have access to via social media
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=286657
‘Gay’ safe-schools czar on way out?
Deficit reduction proposal simply cancels $1.8 billion for office
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=227529
EDITORIAL: Obama’s risky-sex czar
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/09/obamas-risky-sex-czar/
Breaking: Homosexual Group GLSEN Yanks Links to Pornographic ‘Gay’ Hook-up Site Off its ‘Gay-Straight Alliance’ Facebook Page
http://americansfortruth.com/issues/the-agenda-glbtq-activist-groups
Homosexual Infighting
White House Issues Statement Opposing ENDA as Threat to Religious Freedom
http://americansfortruth.com/issues/the-agenda-glbtq-activist-groups/gay-culture/homosexual-infighting
DADT repeal — done deal, or not?
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Security/Default.aspx?id=1329262
The dark secret behind America’s sexual revolution
After 30 years of research, renowned expert reveals shocking truth
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=212497
Speechless: Silencing the Christians Book
http://store.afa.net/p-10000332-speechless-silencing-the-christians-book.aspx
The following examples are some of the tactics of “tolerance” used by liberals/Homosexuals in their pursuit of silencing Christianity.
SPEECHLESS…Silencing the Christians 14 Episodes
Episode 101 “Season Premiere”
Americans are at greater risk of losing their basic freedoms today than ever before. In
this episode of “Speechless. . .Silencing the Christians,” renowned author and
commentator Janet Parshall takes you on a journey across the country. You’ll see how a
liberal minority and a misguided concern for political correctness are undermining the
morals and values of mainstream America. You’ll meet citizens who have been arrested
for speaking at a public rally. You’ll hear from students who have been required to learn
verses from the Koran (while Bible reading is banned). You’ll learn about activists
pushing social tolerance to such an extreme that the Bible is being labeled “hate speech.”
Follow these cases and learn how you can take action to stop the erosion of your personal
freedoms.
Episode 102 – “Is This Thing On?”
The concept of “separation of church and state” has become a hammer aiming to silence
Christians and eliminate the Bible from our public life. But the fact is that this phrase is
not even part of the Constitution. Yet a few loud voices, ignoring historical evidence,
continue seeking to reshape our laws. On this episode of “Speechless. . .Silencing the
Christians” you’ll learn how Christ is being kept out of schools while Islam is being
promoted. How students have been prohibited from speaking their personal beliefs,
violating their Constitutional freedoms. Best-selling author, Ann Coulter, sits down with
host Janet Parshall to discuss how hypocritical and intolerant the “tolerance” movement
has become toward Christians. You’ll learn how to make a difference, and reverse these
dangerous trends.
Episode 103 – “Grandmas Behind Bars”
“Hate crime” is the new buzzword in law enforcement. But how is “hate” being defined?
And what would these laws punish? On this episode of “Speechless. . .Silencing the
Christians,” you’ll learn how this legislation targets thought and freedom of speech that
could make it illegal to believe in “Truth” or even quote the Bible. Already, in the name
of “tolerance,” 75-year-old grandmothers face life in prison for comments at public
rallies. Homosexuals and transsexuals receive expanded protection, while Christians are
treated as criminals. You may be next! Host Janet Parshall shows how public school
students are forced to view pro-homosexual propaganda (and may be suspended if they
object on religious grounds). We’ll go in depth on the “Philadelphia 11” case and reveal
how it was resolved. An expert on hate crimes laws in Canada explains what we can
expect in the United States if these laws are passed on the federal level. Don’t miss this
important program.
Episode 104 – “Olivia’s Song”
Kids learn firsthand that freedom takes a backseat to political correctness on this episode
of “Speechless. . .Silencing the Christians.”
A young girl learns she’s not allowed to sing a song about God in an after school talent
show. The Boy Scouts of America in Philadelphia face losing their home of 80 years in
an attempt by the city to force the group to accept homosexual scout leaders. A veteran’s
hospital “neutralizes” its chapel by removing all symbols of Christianity. And
discrimination expert Dr. Gary Cass talks about violence and harassment aimed at
Christians in recent months.
Episode 105 – “Vows on the Boardwalk?”
Places of worship become the latest victims of the pro-homosexual movement on this
episode of “Speechless. . .Silencing the Christians.”
A New Jersey church association finds itself in a legal battle when lesbian couples sue for
the right to use the church’s seaside worship pavilion to hold a civil union ceremony. A
mother in Pennsylvania is told that reading a passage from the Bible to her son’s
kindergarten class is against the law. Instead, she is encouraged to read a book about
witches. A Canadian pastor faces a hate crimes tribunal for writing a letter to the editor
of his local newspaper: a chilling precursor to what Americans will face if similar laws
are passed.
Episode 106 – “Lone Star Justice”
Public school students in Texas are told they can’t mention Jesus in discussions about
Christmas or Easter on this episode of “Speechless. . .Silencing the Christians.” A
superintendent in Plano admits his plans to “shut down religious speech” in school. The
myth of separation of church and state is exposed. The state of Texas becomes the first in
the nation to pass a law designed exclusively for the protection of students’ religious
liberties. Be heard. Don’t be Speechless.
Episode 107 – “The Fairness Doctrine”
Opponents of free speech work to reinstate the 1949 Fairness Doctrine on this episode of
“Speechless. . .Silencing the Christians.” Efforts are aimed at silencing the voice of
conservative radio and television programs. The nation’s leading experts weigh in on this
fight and how it’s being fought in the federal government. Be heard. Don’t be
Speechless.
Episode 108 – “Isabella”
A mother who left the lesbian lifestyle faces losing her daughter to her former partner forEpisode 109 – “Christians Need Not Apply – Part 1”
Three cases of employees losing their jobs as a result of the practice of their faith
Episode 110 – “Christians Need Not Apply – Part 2”
A human resources executive and a corporate fraud investigator are fired for writing
opinion columns critical of the homosexual social agenda while they were at home on
their personal time.
Episode 111 – “The Ivory Tower”
Public university employees face discrimination and threats to their careers for holding a
Christian worldview.
Episode 112 – “The Hallowed Halls of Tolerance”
A Georgia Tech student faces death and rape threats for opposing liberal feminist policies
and a social work student is told she must violate her conscience to complete her
program.
Episode 113 – “Whispering Christians”
U.S. Senator Jim DeMint and Clemson University professor J. David Woodard discuss
their new book Whispering Christians, Restoring Our Right to Say it’s Wrong. A
California church is denied use of a public facility because of the faith content of their
meetings.
Episode 114 – “Defending the Faithful”
Agencies that assist victims of faith-based discrimination are featured.
teaching the girl that the Bible calls homosexuality a sin.
Oops! Episode 108 should read when corrected.
Episode 108 – “Isabella”
A mother who left the lesbian lifestyle faces losing her daughter to her former partner for
teaching the girl that the Bible calls homosexuality a sin.
School not the place for politics (Day of Silence-April 15, 2011)
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1329766
Highly interesting and timely book “Christ in Egypt: THE HORUS-JESUS CONNECTION” by (female) Dr D.M. Murock shows that Christianity is anything but an original religion, but, on the contrary, is firmly rooted in the ancient Egyptian Cult of Horus. Practically all the well-known “dogmatic points”, such as the virgin birth, Jesus walking on water, the Baptism and Jesus’ alleged death on the cross between two criminals, were already known to the ancient Egyptians, long, long, long before the advent of Christianity!!! Read that book and be shocked.
See the following website for further details
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/christinegypt.html
Do you really think Bill would have the courage to read any websites you might include? Christians have too much fear to even read anything against their dogma. I know; I was one and had the fear put into me.
Karolyn,
Thank you my Sister.It is hard for those that walk in darkness, or without spiritual inspiration to comprehend God and the Bible; therefor they miss out on His Love and the benefits of being in His Family.
Wow!
Then the Ancient Egyptians are further prophetic evidence to the coming Christ and His spiritual divinity and legacy. Isn’t it amazing at the collaboration of civilizations that provide peripheral evidence to God’s omnipotence throughout history!! Thanks Frederick
Law School Dean: Judge Walker’s admission warrants vacating Prop 8 ruling
http://www.nomblog.com/7316/
Breaking News: Virginia AG Cuccinelli Advises Proposed Adoption Regs Illegal !!
http://www.nomblog.com/7392/
NOM Responds to News Judge Walker Violated Judicial Rules, Released Video in Defiance of Supreme Court
http://www.nomblog.com/7368/
HRC pressures 200 top law firms to not defend DOMA in court-(Sounds like HRC is afraid to face the legal outcome, because they know they will loose !! )
http://www.nomblog.com/7265/
North Carolina Marriage Amendment Introduced in House!
http://www.nomblog.com/7253/
RI Minority Leader Lays Down Gauntlet to Speaker Fox: Let the House Vote! Typical Homosexual tactic – if we can’t have our way nobody can!
http://www.nomblog.com/7348/
Court to atheists: Gee, sorry about your ‘hurt feelings’
Tosses challenge to ‘National Day of Prayer’ based on ‘offense’
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=287101
‘Incredible’ victory for marriage, family
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1330056
PFOX: Ex-’gays’ have rights too
(And the Homosexual community claims they are tolerant)???
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1330002
Barber: If the Judge Ain’t Straight You Must Vacate
http://americansfortruth.com/
OUTSTANDING Maryland victory! Last-minute surprise revival of Transgender Bill met with defeat!
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11a/maryland_tranny_bill/senate_win_0411.html
AUDIO: Listen to excerpt from pro-family testimony against transgender bill and the harassment from Committee members
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11a/maryland_tranny_bill/senate_win_0411.html
Watch video as Linda Harvey discusses “What’s wrong with the Day of Silence?”
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/10b/day_of_silence/videos.html
“Dare to Stand”: A church confronts the “Day of Silence” with powerful video (This powerful, professionally produced video, created by a church in Illinois, has infuriated the homosexual movement with its penetrating message!)
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/10b/day_of_silence/videos.html
Anti-Day of Silence resistance by students (Very compelling video made by students for students against the Day of Silence)
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/10b/day_of_silence/videos.html
No, no Bill, you’re twisting things in your favorite direction. Murdock neatly shows that the whole biblical story concerning your Jesus and his cronies can be safely designated BLUNT AND BLATANT PLAGIARISM; THEFT, in other words. Just one bunch of Myths (originally Egyptian ones) twisted and turned into a whole string of so-called Christian Gospels. So, good news, you say? Don’t make me laugh: bedtime stories, to lull your toddlers sweetly asleep. Well, maybe not quite; I wouldn’t for the life of me have bothered my poor children with the gruesome and utterly sado-masochistic stories about the nailing on the cross and the alleged horrors of “hell”, which especially the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Lukashenko (Belorussia) and Mugabe have undoubtedly always found quite inspiring, don’t you think???
So,
It is better to trade the illusion that you call reality for the real truth? That is a good argument of why God has given us(Heterosexual) the natural right of selection to marriage and children, compared to your voice wailing in the background to your percieved attempt of your counterfeit relationships not having legitimacy? Oh Please!
Upon reflection of your post, I see three dangerous areas that need addressing. The first would be that of concealing “the gruesome and utterly sado-masochistic stories about the nailing on the cross and the alleged horrors of “hell”. To deny a child the history of the Cross and Hell would be condemning them to an eternity in Hell. The Cross is where Jesus offered up His life for all mankind’s sin, and those believing in Him and accepting His death, burial and resurrection receive the Gift of Salvation. This would be a very important omission in the life a child, but it is easy to see why the Atheistic Perspective would want to leave it out of the child’s upbringing.
The next important matter would be that of “Hell”. Telling a child about the horrors of a soul spending eternity separated from God’s Love would be a very crucial event in that child’s life , because when they reached the age of reckoning they would have conscience to the consequences of their actions and the ultimate resting place of their soul.
Lastly, I am glad that, over all, the homosexual community is denied the right to adopt children.Because it prevents them from the exposure of not being given the opportunity to know about God’s Love, His Son’s sacrifice for mankind’s sin, and the consequences of Sin. A brutal form of child abuse, I would say, but I wouldn’t expect you to be in agreement.
VIDEO: NYC Archbishop on 60 Minutes: “Attraction…doesn’t entitle you to Marriage
http://www.nomblog.com/6649/
Vatican tells U.N. that critics of gays under attack (More evidence of “homosexual tolerance” )
http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE72L4XU20110322
Video: Julea Ward on being forced out of counseling program for her Christian views
http://www.nomblog.com/6566/
Attorney General Bill Schuette: EMU’s student’s religious beliefs against homosexuality violated
http://www.freep.com/article/20110315/NEWS06/103150369/Attorney-General-Bill-Schuette-EMU-s-student-s-religious-beliefs-against-homosexuality-violated?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
Remaining firm on faith pays off- A major victory against Home Depot!!
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1330042
“Ex-Gay” Activists Want To Crash The Day Of Silence
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ex-gay-activists-want-crash-day-silence
FRC: Obama Pushing Gay-Rights Opponents “In The Closet” Through Anti-Bullying Programs
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/frc-obama-pushing-gay-rights-opponents-%E2%80%9C-closet%E2%80%9D-through-anti-bullying-programs
Jackson Subject of Gay Harassment Complaint
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/jackson-push-bennett-lawsuit-119861339.html
Garlow: African Americans Have Saved Us From The “Bondage and Enslavement” of Gay Marriage
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/garlow-african-americans-have-saved-us-bondage-and-enslavement-gay-marriage
Barber: Suicide Rate High Among Gay Youth Because They Know “What They Are Doing Is Unnatural, Is Wrong, Is Immoral
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/barber-suicide-rate-high-among-gay-youth-because-they-know-what-they-are-doing-unnatural-wro
Santorum To Beck: States Should Be Allowed To Criminalize Gay Sex
http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201104140009
‘Angry atheist’s’ Facebook attack
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1330078
Yes Bill, stupidity manifests itself in many guises. One of them is your entire religion. You contend that you’re out to offer the world a message of truth and hope. But all you’re throwing up on stage (pun not intended) is a whole collection of stolen myths (your bible is chock full of them), outright ridiculous lies (one of the most conspicuous ones being the hideous allegation about the Jews (my great-grandfather on my mother’s side was Jewish btw) who’re said to have betrayed your Jesus and handed him over to the Romans to be tortured and hanged. There’s not one single shred of evidence for this assumption, Bill, not a tiny, single one. And don’t forget that stories such as the story of the so-called Calvary cross contributed heavily to the suffering of the Jewish people throughout history. Your Christian religion is a beastly, poisonous doctrine of pure evil, Bill, I’m sorry to say. In the old days you relentlessly persecuted and burned “witches” and so-called heretics, nowadays you’re out for the blood of gay and transgender folk (albeit not literally, thank goodness, although I’m convinced many of you would certainly enjoy torturing and killing the us en masse, if they had the chance). I really pity your children who have to go through the process of constant indoctrination with all the preposterous superstitions about heaven and hell you care to shove down their throats day by bloody day. I’ve had to endure this nonsense throughout my precious tender years, so I know precisely that I’m talking about. Your religion (along with the Islamic faith) is the one big curse that’s been laid on our planet, alas. But ok, I keep being hopeful about the basic rationality of the human species, who one day will come to its real senses. The process of human evolution will only end with the arrival of another type of sentient (and much more profoundly philosophical and intelligent) beings, period.
Frederick,
You continue to criticize religion, but you offer nor personal evidence that you have ever attempted to make an attempt to know the Living God. The only evidence that you supply is references to authors of books, that allege they are experts on defusing the lies of Christianity. Fine, but where is the substance of your personal experience? If you have never made an honest attempt to be intimate with God, then you lack any authority to try and convince me about how my beliefs are futile.Lastly, I love how you end you post with a belief in a more “sentient being” . Sorry, but this is advanced as mankind will ever achieve, sad isn’t it?
An Amazing Testimony – How God Transformed the Life of a Drag Queen ‘Star,’ Trace McNutt
http://americansfortruth.com/news/an-amazing-testimony-how-god-transformed-the-life-of-a-drag-queen-star.html
After viewing this I would recommend it to any young person struggling with the issue of Homosexuality. It shows the power of God and His ability to transform us, and let us experience His unconditional Love!!
Dr. Ablow: J. Crew Advertisement Is An “Attack On Masculinity”
http://equalitymatters.org/emtv/201104140011
Shhhh: Judeo-Christian Culture Is Actually…Superior
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/04/shhhh_judeochristian_culture_i.html
On Anti-Bullying ‘Day of Silence,’ the Religious Right Cheers on the Bullies
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-b-keegan/on-anti-bullying-day-of-s_b_849569.html
‘Gay’ Prop 8 judge called “direct beneficiary” of ruling
His long-term homosexual relationship a clear conflict of interest, say lawyers
http://www.wnd.com/
The death of a conscience (What the homosexual effort is attempting to do with society to legitimize their lifestyle) Be forwarned and Beware!!
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=287585
Local Boston Fox-TV affiliate intimidates convenience store over gay “kiss-in” incident
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11b/FoxTV_prohomo/index.html
Bill, I didn’t realize that this site was YOUR blog. I thought it was Bob Livingston’s website. Since homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with your personal life, as far as we know, why ARE you so obsessed with it? How often do you interact with a real person and not just with a computer keyboard?
Stew,
Well let’s see, last I checked this forum was still open for public opinion for people to express their viewpoints about this pathological lifestyle.A lifestyle that concerns not just me, but everyone that values the institution of marriage.To defuse your next rebuttal on how perfect the state of marriage is, I will agree that it is not the covenant that God intended to be, but regardless,God made it to be the union between one MAN and one WOMAN.
Lastly to satisfy your ignorant remark about my association with real people,unfortunately I do interact with the lost souls of this world. I do find better companionship with my keyboard,it doesn’t cling to the futile rationale of attempting to discredit an opinion presented to it, or demonize the messenger, ridicule another’s beliefs, like some do!
Thank you for proving my point.
Anytime my Brother.
Good comment and I agree with you. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Samurai !!
Greetings my brother! May our Father bless you. It has been a bit since you have graced us with your presence. Hope to see you soon.
In His Love,
Bill
Exactly Stew! The point you’re bringing up here about Bill has been bothering me for quite a while now. I fully agree with you that our Bill seems to be totally obsessed with the subject of “homosexuality”. As if to compensate for something that’s hidden somewhere deep, deep, deep down there. Oh, and this suddenly hits my mind, a sentence from Shakespeare’s Mac Beth, if I’m correct: THOU DOST PROTEST TOO MUCH, ME THINKS, Right? Wasn’t Mac Beth’s wife also constantly occupied with hand-washing, as our Bill seems to be constantly on the look-out for sites ready to slander and belittle gay and transgender folk? What a waste of time and energy, as we all know that LGBTQ’s will always be there, whatever you do or don’t do. Despite all the persecutions throughout history (notably by the Nazis) we’re still here, and here to stay my dear!!! Rhymes nicely, doesn’t it.
Have a nice day, oh, and give my warmest regards and love to your pastor. It’s Sunday, remember??? Well, naughty, naughty, forgot to attend morning services? Couldn’t leave that Johnny Walker bottle in peace last night? Shame on you, Bill…….
And you consider yourself a healer of the mind? Truly, is the heart of man like a stone, is dark and filled with conceit, the spirit is anguished when confronted with the light of God’s truth. It scurries to hide in the shadows of it’s own lies believed to be truth,finding distressed refuge in the attack upon another. Yes, I will continue my crusade here as long as values are in jeopardy.
Creators of ‘Fireproof’ announce new film on fatherhood
Producer says movie geared to ‘call out the man in men’
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=238325
Church of England tries to block sham marriages
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1329114
Presbyterian congregation votes to change denominations ( GO Presbys!)
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1329108
NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MARRIAGE RESPONDS TO NEWS JUDGE VAUGHN WALKER BLATANTLY VIOLATED JUDICIAL RULES, RELEASED VIDEO IN DEFIANCE OF U.S. SUPREME COURT
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=omL2KeN0LzH&b=5075187&ct=9352891¬oc=1
Barton: Everything Should Operate According to Biblical Principles
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/
Ha, values? What values? Those dictated by your petty biblical bourgeois rhetoric? Don’t make me laugh. You Christian right-wingers are so totally unimaginative; the only strategy you seem to be able to come up with is an endless repetition of totally worn out archaic blah-blah out of the BOOK OF FLAGRANT THEFT, LIES & VIOLENCE (i.e. your bible). Yes Bill, talk about an agenda, talk about “hate-mongering”. You’d think that miserable whack-job McCarthy and his cronies are still “ruling” this country, spewing their sick, paranoid idiocy about so-called Un-American activities, every which way their criminal boots were dragging them. Keep strewing your “pearls” of hate and self-righteousness here on the web if that’s your way of giving your precious EGO a nice extra boost. Very Christian-like I’d say.
What Will People Think?
http://moshesharon.wordpress.com/category/politics/
Nobel scientist has new spin on ‘original sin’
Says Bible gets it right, mankind has inherited fatal character flaw
http://www.wnd.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=270961
Levin bred: Can D-MI make it rain a DADT repeal?
http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2010/05/levin-bred-can-d-mi-make-dadt-repeal-rain.html
The Top Ten Harms of Same-Sex ‘Marriage’” Defies Logic
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/family-research-councils-top-ten-harms-same-sex-marriage-defies-logic
Prop 8 Leader Supports Thrice-Married Adulterer
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/prop-8-leader-supports-thrice-married-adulterer
The following Book is A must-read for every intelligent, critical thinker imho, it’s
Disproving Christianity: Refuting the World’s Most Followed Religion
By David G. McAfee
http://astore.amazon.com/exchrisnetenc-20/detail/1451555334
Ckeck it out on the “EX-CHRISTIAN.NET. Much fun!
Save California Urges Parents To Pull Kids Out Of School Over History Bill – Excellent argument for Home Schooling your Children !!
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/subjects/anti-gay
Scott Lively Rails Against “Sodomites,” Claims Gay Rights Are The “Antithesis” Of Human Rights
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/scott-lively-rails-against-sodomites-claims-gay-rights-are-antithesis-human-rights
The Homosexual Agenda in South Africa
http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles/homofascisminsa.htm
Well, let this moron Lively first study the horrors caused by most of the so-called World Religions (their connections with incredibly sadistic regimes) and look at The African, Asian and Latin-American continents where the vast majority of AIDS victims is QUITE OBVIOUSLY fully HETEROSEXUAL.
Africa: Make those homosexuals disappear!
http://www.afrik-news.com/article17241.html
Africa, AIDS, Homosexuality, Pedophilia
“When President Yoweri Yuseveni of Uganda spoke at the 15th International AIDS Congress in Bangkok last July, he witnessed to the world’s only real success story in fighting the terrible scourge of HIV/AIDS. For the past 20 years he has presided over the only country in the world that has cut its AIDS prevalence rate by three quarters (from about 28% of the population in 1991 to less than 7% today), and the way the Ugandans have done it is by the simple application of the message of the Gospel and of common sense: chastity outside marriage and fidelity within marriage.
http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=2322
History of HIV & AIDS in South Africa – Very detailed fact filled history of the epidemic
http://www.avert.org/history-aids-south-africa.htm
“Technology can’t replace God”: Pope
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/17/us-pope-idUSTRE73G0FA20110417?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true
A Branded Man- Gays have been granted a fundamental constitutional right to abuse their bodies in the privacy of their own bedrooms. But they don’t have a right to do so in public and at the expense of honest taxpayers and scarce police resources.
http://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/2011/04/18/a_branded_man
No religion? No license
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1330470
Yes, Mugabe dares to call homosexuals pigs and dogs? The man is a full-time thief and a murderer, for Chrissakes. His “administration” has solely brought indescribable poverty to hundreds of thousands of Zimbabweans, causing about the same number of folk to flee that wretched country and bring South-Africa to the brink of total bankruptcy!!! A vain old fool, a complete disaster in regard to a country whose inhabitants once proudly called their home-land Southern Africa’s “granary”. The man should be quiet as the grave. He’s nothing more than a predator, an insatiable, power-hungry beast, fit for the gallows himself. A pathetic criminal, that’s what he is. Out with that scabby hound dog. Oh yes, and he calls himself a Christian, a devout Catholic. Well, of course, that figures…… What did I tell you about Christians here before?
Is MRSA The New Gay Plague? The human body is quite callous in how it handles mistreatment and the perversion of its natural functions. When two men mimic the act of heterosexual intercourse with one another, they create an environment, a biological counterfeit, wherein disease can thrive. Unnatural behaviors beget natural consequences.
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/is-mrsa-the-new-gay-plague
What the “Dutch Study” Really Says About Gay Couples? – recent study on homosexual relationships finds they last 1-½ years on average — even as homosexual groups are pushing nationwide to legalize same-sex ‘marriages.’ The study of young Dutch homosexual men by Dr. Maria Xiridou of the Amsterdam Municipal Health Service, published in May in the journal AIDS…found that men in homosexual relationships on average have eight partners a year outside those relationships.
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,003.htm
Are Gays A Threat To Our Children?
A discussion of gay sexuality and homosexual molestation
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 57% of men who had sex with another man did not consider themselves to be homosexual or bisexual.20 A recent random survey of 4,193 men in New York City revealed that while 91.3% claimed they were straight, 9.3% of those “straight” respondents had sex only with other men in the previous year, while another 0.8% reported having sex with both men and women.21 When the authors included gays and bisexuals, they noted that among men who have sex with men, 73% identified as straight. Another representative survey found that more than 20% of all men have had a homosexual experience.
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,002.htm
African myths about homosexuality – A political spat about gay rights in Zimbabwe is symptomatic of the homophobia prevalent in many African communities
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/23/homophobia-africa-gay-rights
NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MARRIAGE SLAMS CUMMINS, INC.’s MISLEADING TESTIMONY AGAINST INDIANA MARRIAGE AMENDMENT
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=omL2KeN0LzH&b=5075187&ct=9284687¬oc=1
Homosexuality, families and forgiveness (HR 1913)- Although its dated, we can reflect upon the implications of the message then, and see where we are now! A VERY DANGEROUS POSITION
http://www.examiner.com/conservative-christian-in-columbia/homosexuality-families-and-forgiveness-hr-1913
The cure for homosexuality: solution that brought him out of ‘gay’ life
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/720747/posts
EAT DA POO POO – Yes my friends it is real. HEARING is believing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euXQbZDwV0w
Forgiveness and the Gay Community – Not a bad site, but lacks any mention of REPENTANCE.
http://www.createdgay.com/forgive2.html
Homosexual Conduct – “but nowhere does Scripture suggest that loving, committed relationships of ANY KIND can turn sin into righteousness. God does not permit mankind to reinterpret the clear teaching of Scripture to justify personal sinful desires.”
http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/relations_11_homosexual.cfm
Homosexuality and Hope
CATHOLIC MEDICAL ASSOCIATION – Some of the web site topics
1. Not born that way
2. Same sex attraction as a symptom
3. Same-sex attraction is preventable
4. At-risk, not predestined
5. Therapy
6. Goals of therapy
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0039.html
Homosexuality: Nature, Nurture and Compassion – Has some interesting perspectives on the cause of homosexuality.
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/homosex1.html
aND YOU bILL ARE SPREADING HALF “TRUTHS”. Read this sentence from the MRSA-article you brought up above.
The USA300 variant of MRSA is already widespread in the general population. And gay men, who are in the general population, had little to do with it. If the medical literature is any indication, it’s the “general population” that’s responsible for spreading MRSA into the gay community. Voila!!!
where did “I” say that the homosexual population was responsible for this? All I did was present an article, the reader is to draw their own conclusions from the facts.
What leads gay, straight teens to attempt suicide?
http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/8459870/39307817/What_leads_gay_straight_teens_to_attempt_suicide
Very instructive and hilarious article on the “handling” of “BIBLIOLATERS”, i.e. folk who think, – or rather, are convinced – the bible is inerrant and thus beyond intelligent criticism. Happy reading, this piece will brighten up your day, I’m sure.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/delos_mckown/bibliolaters.html
Hey!
Then I am a “BIBLIOATER” Give God the Glory !!! By His Stripes “I AM HEALED” !!
were there two “Biblioaters” on the Ark? Must have been, cause we have really prospered with God’s Blessing!
“But his parting remark to this adulterous woman was the firm admonition, “go, and do not sin again.” The gift of wholeness Jesus granted to this previously broken woman required that she mend her ways and lead a different lifestyle thereafter.”
http://thetruthsetsyoufree.wordpress.com/jesus-and-the-homosexual/
Catherine Brown was married to a homosexual pedophile. Read her story …
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/homosexuality.htm
Puberty blocker for children considering sex change – Satan’s fingerprints on our children! A MUST READ
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8454002/Puberty-blocker-for-children-considering-sex-change.html
THE SOCIETY OF FRIENDS (QUAKERS)
AND HOMOSEXUALITY – Very informative site which reflects a moral outlook society seems to have forgotten – Has an ABUNDANT reference section .
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_quak.htm
THE ILLOGIC OF HOMOSEXUALITY: While I spoke to a lesbian she said her partner was pregnant. I asked “How can that be since you don’t have the ‘plumbing’?” She said: “It is complicated” I said “It can’t be natural”. She said her egg was fertilized by a man and implanted in her partner. I asked what are you going to say when the child asks who is their father. She said the neighbor will be the “father”. I said “That’s not natural” No reply. Ironically, this twisted logic is growing. Why? Apathy, lethargy, moral paradigms and absolutes have ground to sand leaving a moral void.
If the marriage amendments do not pass, the public perspective of homosexual endorsement and legal protections will spread. Moral relativism will continue.
http://cedarsfoundation.com/?cat=4
Jackson: Gay Marriage Part of a “Satanic Plot” to Destroy the Family
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/
The Health Risks of Gay Sex
JOHN R. DIGGS, JR., M.D.
I. Differences between homosexual and heterosexual relationships
A. Promiscuity
B. Physical health
1. Male Homosexual Behavior
a. Anal-genital
b. Oral-anal
c. Human Waste
d. Fisting
e. Sadism
f. Conclusion
2. Female Homosexual Behavior
C. Mental health
1. Psychiatric Illness
2. Reckless Sexual Behavior
D. Life span
E. Definition of “monogamy”
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html
Exposed: The Myth That Psychiatry Has Proven That Homosexual Behavior Is Normal – WOW a must read to understand how the homosexual community intimidated the APA into changing homosexuality to a”normal behavior”. SHOCKING!!
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/urban/eleven.php
EXPOSED THE TRUTH ABOUT PFC.BARRY WINCHELL – A further deception by the homosexual community that created the imposition of the DADT
Homosexual activists have long claimed that the murder of Pfc. Winchell at Fort Campbell, Kentucky was the result of anti-homosexual bigotry. The truth is finally emerging. Winchell appears to be the victim of homosexual jealousy and rage.
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/urban/six.php
Homosexual Urban Legend: False: The Claim That 6-14 Million Children Are Reared In Homosexual Households
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/urban/twelve.php
Do Homosexuals Really Want The Right To Marry? DON”T BET ON IT! READ ABOUT THEIR REAL AGENDA
The truth is, however, that the drive to gain legalization of so-called “gay” or “same-sex” marriage is part of a larger sexual agenda. Homosexual activists are now beginning to openly admit that they don’t want to marry just to have a normal home life. They want same-sex marriage as a way of destroying the concept of marriage altogether-and of introducing polygamy and polyamory (group sex) as “families.”
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/urban/eight.php
Good graciousness Bill, can you still find time to eat, drink, sleep ( and, uhm, you know…..) with all your acting out regarding the vicissitudes of being gay? Now I really begin to believe you’re some reincarnation of “Mrs. Mac-Beth. But not to worry, of course, it keeps you very busy and happy as well, apparently!!! Some play the piano in the free hours, such as I myself, you seem to thoroughly enjoy unearthing negative material concerning gays and gayness. I’m sure your Lord is becoming prouder and prouder of you by the day. Happy slapping……
And good day to you Sir!
And here is another article on the Abrahamitic religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) as “Blood Religions”, entitled, BLOOD RELIGION: A BLOODY SHAME. It’s to be found on the FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION’S wewbsite. Revealing and hilarious. Please join me in becoming a donating supporter of the Foundation. Warmly recommended.
Ah, forgot to forward the URL, sorry. Here goes
http://www.ffrf.org/publications/freethought-today/articles/blood-religion-a-bloody-shame/
Too funny,
You have yet to realize that collective efforts by the homosexual community will be in vain. Your ideology is frail and contaminated with failure,accompanied by the unconscious fear of never attaining your dream goals of replacing God’s Divine state of Marriage.There will be a bloody resolve to this plague,I fear that will occur before the homosexual community ever spends one night of counterfeit marital bliss. God is already unleashing His wrath even now, if you cannot see the current evidence, just stay tuned the best is yet to come. I will continue to pray for those that are lost, ignorant, and prideful that they may seek and receive repentance from God.
Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse
Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.
Some homosexual activists defend the historic connection between homosexuality and pedophilia: Such activists consider the defense of “boy-lovers” to be a legitimate gay rights issue.
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/urban/one-a.php
The Top Ten
Myths About Homosexuality
by peter sprig
Myth No. 1:
People are born gay.
Fact:
The research does not show that anyone is “born gay,” and suggests instead that homosexuality results from a complex mix of developmental factors.
Myth No. 2:
Sexual orientation can never change.
Fact:
Thousands of men and women have testified to experiencing a change in their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Research confirms that such change does occur—sometimes spontaneously, and sometimes as a result of therapeutic interventions
Myth No. 3:
Efforts to change someone’s sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual are harmful and unethical.
Fact :
There is no scientific evidence that change efforts create greater harm than the homosexual lifestyle itself. The real ethical violation is when clients are denied the opportunity to set their own goals for therapy
Myth No. 4:
Ten percent of the population is gay.
Fact:
Less than three percent of American adults identify themselves as homosexual or bisexual.
Myth No. 5:
Homosexuals do not experience a higher level of psychological disorders than heterosexuals.
Fact :
Homosexuals experience considerably higher levels of mental illness and substance abuse than heterosexuals. A detailed review of the research has shown that “no other group of comparable size in society experiences such intense and widespread pathology.”
Myth No. 6:
Homosexual conduct is not harmful to one’s physical health.
Fact:
Both because of high-risk behavior patterns, such as sexual promiscuity, and because of the harm to the body from specific sexual acts, homosexuals are at greater risk than heterosexuals for sexually transmitted diseases and other forms of illness and injury.
Myth No. 7:
Children raised by homosexuals are no different from children raised by heterosexuals, nor do they suffer harm.
Fact:
An overwhelming body of social science research shows that children do best when raised by their own biological mother and father who are committed to one another in a lifelong marriage. Research specifically on children of homosexuals has major methodological problems, but does show specific differences
Myth No. 8:
Homosexuals are no more likely to molest children than heterosexuals.
Fact:
The percentage of child sexual abuse cases in which men molest boys is many times higher than the percentage of adult males who are homosexual, and most men who molest boys self-identify as homosexual or bisexual
Myth No. 9:
Homosexuals are seriously disadvantaged by discrimination.
Fact:
Research shows that homosexuals actually have significantly higher levels of educational attainment than the general public, while
the findings on homosexual incomes are, at worst, mixed.
Myth No. 10:
Homosexual relationships are just the same as heterosexual ones, except for the gender of the partners.
Fact:
Homosexuals are less likely to enter into a committed relationship, less likely to be sexually faithful to a partner, even if they have one, and are less likely to remain committed for a lifetime, than are heterosexuals. They also experience higher rates of domestic violence than heterosexual married couples.
http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF10F01.pdf
How Did the Early Christians of Rome Defeat Pagan Sexuality?
Over the past century Western Civilization, including the United States, has experienced profound social, culture, and sexual changes. Many of these changes run counter to deeply-held Christian moral teaching. – Eye opening video covers the early Christian Church and it’s exposure to PAGAN SEXUALITY very interesting to watch.
http://www.frc.org/university/how-did-the-early-christians-of-rome-defeat-pagan-sexuality
Christian Chastity vs Sex in the City: America’s Future
Christianity has built Western Civilization, building on Jewish and Greek foundations
http://www.frc.org/university/christian-chastity-vs-sex-in-the-city-americas-future
Ha, ha, Ten myths, huh? Ten blatantly pathetic fabrications by another HOMOPHOBIC CHRISTIAN FUNDIE LIAR, you could rather say.
Read here on the site concerned what (Dr) Alvin McEwen says: ‘Top Ten Myths About Homosexuality’ is a huge homophobic fraud
http://www.investingcontrarian.com/index.php/financial-news-network/alvin-mcewen-top-ten-myths-about-homosexuality-is-a-huge-homophobic-fraud/
And Bill, more and more I’m getting the impression that you yourself are a decidedly fanatically obsessed and troubled man, who’s trying to compensate for his own serious psychological problems through this uninhibited and unending slanderous blog activism. No need to call in a psychologist or psychiatrist to come up with such a hypothesis. But okay, if it helps you keep your “sanity” reasonably well intact, keep up the Great Work. Dream on, my man. I’m sure you’ll score your Lord’s special blessing into the bargain!!!
Hate Crime Law Misapplied to Ex-homosexual
Homosexual activists and liberals have become angered in regards to ex-homosexual events and activities.] In addition, the Center for Reclaiming America cited the following account of how a hate crime statute was egregiously applied to an ex-homosexual:
“ In Madison, Wisconsin, a recovered homosexual who had left the “gay” lifestyle to start a family got into a heated discussion with an open homosexual about homosexuality at a gas station. The ex-“gay” man, David Ott, was holding his child in his arms during the entire incident, and neither man touched the other. The homosexual activist later told police he had felt threatened by Ott, and local prosecutors charged the man with “disorderly conduct” with a “hate crimes” enhancement.
The “hate crime” aspect, stemming from Ott’s belief that homosexuality is morally wrong, raised the potential fine from $1,000 to $10,000, and jail time went up from a possible 90 days to one year. Fearing the possibility of substantial jail time, Ott settled, and received 50 hours of community service plus a mandatory attendance at “tolerance” sessions conducted by lesbians at the University of Wisconsin at Madison. A ground rule for the session was the premise that homosexual behavior is not immoral.
The entire process cost Ott almost $7,000 in legal fees.[
SODOMY: A PUBLIC HEALTH RISK
MEN:
- A 1997 study in British Columbia found the life expectancy of men who engage in sodomy to be comparable to that of the average Canadian man in 1871. Researchers estimate that nearly half of the 20 year old men currently engaging in sodomy will not reach their 65th birthday.1
- Ninety-five percent or more of the AIDS infections among gay men result from receptive anal intercourse.2
- The risk of anal cancer “soars” by nearly 4,000% for men who have sex with men. The rate doubles again for those who are HIV positive. A Michigan homosexual newspaper admits there is no such thing as “safe sex” to prevent this “soaring” cancer risk. Condoms offer only limited protection.3
- Homosexual men face a significantly higher risk of HIV/AIDS, hepatitis, anal cancer, gonorrhea and gastrointestinal infections as a result of their sexual practices.4
- Men who engage in sodomy are 860% more likely to contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD), increasing up to 500% their risk of contracting HIV/AIDS. Men who commit acts of sodomy with men have large numbers of anonymous partners, which can result in rapid, extensive transmission of STDs. Control of STDs is a central component of HIV infection prevention in the United States; resurgence of bacterial STDs threatens national HIV infection prevention efforts.5
- Anal Human Papillomavirus (HPV) infection is nearly universal among HIV-positive homosexual or bisexual men and about 60% in HIV-negative men exhibiting the same sexual behavior.6
WOMEN:
- Many innocent victims suffer the health consequences associated with sodomy as a result of blood transfusions, rape and having normal sexual relations with those who have committed unnatural relations with others. While men of all ages who commit sodomy with other men remain at an alarming risk, young bisexual men are said to be a significant “bridge” for HIV transmission to women.7
- Women who commit sex acts with other women face a significantly higher risk of bacterial vaginosis, breast cancer and ovarian cancer than heterosexual women.8
- The spread of Human Papilomavirus (HPV) is not prevented by condoms. The persons most susceptible to cancer associated with HPV are young women (under 20) and people who practice anal intercourse.9
- Women who engage in receptive anal sex are at a higher risk for contracting anal cancer. In fact, in the U.S. general population, anal cancer is more prevalent among women than men — between 1.5 and 2 times more common, perhaps because more women than men engage in receptive anal sex.10
- The following chart provides a broad synopsis of medical problems related to sodomy:11
Sex Practice: Potential Consequences:
1. Close Body Contact 1. Pubic lice
2. Scabies (mites)
3. Fungal Infections
2. Performer of Oral Sex 1. Oral gonorrhea
2. Oral lesions from herpes, HPV (warts), chancroid, lymhogranuloma venereum, or granuloma inguinale.
3. Nongonolococcal pharyngitis from chlamydia, other STD’s
4. Syphilis
5. Hepatitis B
6. Enteric (intestinal) infections
3. Receptive Anal Intercourse 1. Traumatic proctitis
2. Rectal gonorrhea
3. Anal warts
4. HIV/AIDS
5. Nonspecific procitis (from chlamydia and other STDs)
6. Anorectal herpes
7. Anorectal syphilis
8. Hepatitis B
9. Rectal trichomoniasis
10. Lymphogranuloma venereum
11. Anorectal granuloma inguinale
12. Anorectal chancroid
13. Cytomegalovirus
14. Anorectal candidiasis
4. Receptive Manual-Anal Intercourse 1. Enteric (intestinal) infections
5. Receiver of Oral Sex 1. Physical abrasions
2. Bites
3. Herpes
4. Urethritis from various STDs
6. Insertive Anal Intercourse 1. Nongonococcal urethritis
2. Genital herpes
3. Molluscum contagiosum
4. Genital warts
5. Syphilis
6. Trichomoniasins
7. Epididymitis and/or proctitis
8. Fungal infections
9. Lymphogranuloma vencreum
10. Granuloma inguinale
11. Chancroid
12. Hepatitis B
13. HIV/AIDS
7. Oral-anal Intercourse 1. Enteric (intestinal) infections
2. Shigellosis
3. Campylobacter fetus (bacteria)
4. Enterogenic E. coli bacteria
5. Hepatitis (A, B, and others)
6. Amebiasis
7. Giardiasis
8. Salmonellosis
9. Enterobius vermicularis (parasite)
10. Oral warts
11. Oral gonorrhea
12. Syphilis
13. Lymphogranuloma venereum
14. Oral granuloma inguinale
15. Oral chancroid
16. HIV/AIDS
17. Herpes
18. Anorectal meningococcal infection
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/22SxSo/PnSx/HSx/StatsSdmy.htm
Facts and Statistics About Homosexuals
One study reports 70% of homosexuals admitting to having sex only one time with over 50% of their partners (3).
One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6).
The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime. Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7).
Many homosexuals don’t pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles: “Knowledge of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to sexual behavior”.
Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. “Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence”.
Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels “subjective distress”.
Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States.
They make up only 1-2% of the population. Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the “gay bowel syndrome” (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus.
73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization.
25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics.
Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film “The Castro”, one minute stands).
Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to “cruisy areas” and have anonymous sex. 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDS).
Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, “Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities”.
Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, “30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals” .
50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals.
Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist, says, “Homosexuality by definition is not healthy and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best, will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the sexually normal person”.
For other psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is wrong, please see National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality. It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us.
Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population. Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne .
37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism.
41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs.
Depending on the city, 39-59% of homosexuals are infected with intestinal parasites like worms, flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy third world countries.
The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75.
The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8). Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by another homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19 times more likely to die in a traffic accident .
21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide or traffic accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who die of these thing.
50% of the calls to a hotline to report “queer bashing” involved domestic violence (i.e., homosexuals beating up other homosexuals .
About 50% of the women on death row are lesbian.
http://www.believershomepage.com/homosexual_stats.htm
Homosexuals aren’t discriminated against in employment, so why should they be a protected class?
The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which is disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of the general population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks is $12,166.00 (24).
59.6% of homosexuals are college graduates. 18.0% of the general population are college graduates (24). Too bad they aren’t smart enough to listen to God. “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools” (Romans 1:22).
49.0% of homosexuals hold professional/managerial positions. 15.9% of the general population hold such positions (24). Where’s the job discrimination?
http://www.believershomepage.com/homosexual_stats.htm
In David Kupelian’s book, ‘The Marketing of EVIL’, he says;
“AIDS – originally named GRID (gay-related immunodeficiency disease) until activist homosexuals pressured the medical establishment to switch to the generic acronym AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) – was the ultimate public relations nightmare. It gave society a brand-new reason to fear and shun homosexuals – namely, concern over becoming infected with a nightmarish new disease.
And AIDS did something else. In order for the medical establishment and news media to communicate to the public how the disease was being transmitted, it became necessary to focus publicly on the one thing homosexuals most wanted to downplay – the sometimes-bizarre sexual acts in which they engage and their often astronomically high numbers of sexual partners. (A widely cited 1978 study by Alan P. Bell and Martin S. Wineburg reported that 43 percent of homosexuals had more than five hundred sex partners during their lifetime.) Alan P. Bell and Martin S. Wineburg, Homosexuality: A Study of Diversity among Men and Women (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978), 308
http://www.believershomepage.com/homosexual_stats.htm
12 Reasons Gays Shouldn’t Be Allowed To Marry
1. Homosexuality isn’t natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.
2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can’t legally get married because the world needs more children.
3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all; women are still property, blacks can’t marry whites, and divorce is illegal.
6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.
7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in America.
8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets, because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms, because we haven’t adapted to things like cars or longer life spans.
12. Civil unions (providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name) are better, because a “separate but equal” institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages for gays and lesbians will.
It appears the “BILL” has absolutely no orginal ideas to present. However, he does have a knack for copy and paste!
Comparing the Lifestyles of Homosexual Couples to Married Couples
“Commitment” in Male Homosexual Couples
Even in those homosexual relationships in which the partners consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, the meaning of “committed” or “monogamous” typically means something radically different than in heterosexual marriage.
· A Canadian study of homosexual men who had been in committed relationships lasting longer than one year found that only 25 percent of those interviewed reported being monogamous.” According to study author Barry Adam, “Gay culture allows men to explore different…forms of relationships besides the monogamy coveted by heterosexuals
http://lgfonevolution.blogspot.com/2010/11/comparing-lifestyles-of-homosexual.html
Same-sex relationships in the Bible
Conservative and Liberal Views: Standard Disclaimer
We will attempt to give interpretations of key passages of the Bible from both a conservative (Fundamentalist and other Evangelical) and from a liberal position. Speaking generally:
• Conservative Christian theologians tend to accept English translations of the Bible, such as the New International Version (NIV) and the King James Version (KJV) as authoritative. They generally accept the inerrancy of the Bible. They interpret passages literally, unless there is a good reason not to. They consider all Bible passages as instructive in today’s society. When they see any same-sex activity condemned, they believe that this applies to all homosexual activities. All homosexual behavior is sinful, regardless of the nature of the relationship. Homosexuality is a chosen, unnatural, abnormal, changeable, and perverted lifestyle, which is hated by God.
• Liberal Christian theologians tend to follow a wider variety of translations, and to be more concerned with instances of copying errors in the original Hebrew or Greek, of forgery, and of biases among the translators. They consider some passages (e.g. those referring to slavery, burning some hookers alive, raping female prisoners of war, etc.) as not being valid today, as immoral, and against the will of God. They differentiate among various homosexual and heterosexual sex practices, treating some (rape, prostitution, temple sex rituals) as immoral and some (within committed relationships) as positive. Homosexual orientation and behavior is seen as a normal human sexual expression among a minority of adults. It is not changeable or chosen. Like all sexual behavior, it can be a sin if it is exploitive or manipulative or not carried out safely within a committed relationship.
Summary:
The Bible describes three emotionally close relationships between two people of the same gender. They appear to have progressed well beyond a casual friendship. There is, however, no unmistakable evidence that they were sexually active relationships.
The individuals are:
• Ruth and Naomi
• David and Jonathan
• Daniel and Ashpenaz
Ruth and Naomi
Ruth 1:16-17 and 2:10-11 describe their close friendship Perhaps the best known passage from this book is Ruth 1:16-17 which is often read out during opposite-sex and same-sex marriage and union ceremonies:
“Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me.” (NIV)
Ruth 1:14, referring to the relationship between Ruth and Naomi, mentions that “Ruth clave onto her.” (KJV) The Hebrew word translated here as “clave” is identical to that used in the description of a heterosexual marriage in Genesis 2:24:
“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” (KJV)
This book was probably included in the Hebrew Scriptures because King David was one of the descendents of Ruth. Although this same-sex friendship appears to have been very close, there is no proof that it was a sexually active relationship.
David and Jonathan
Passages in 1 Samuel & 2 Samuel describe, among other events, a extremely close bond between David and Jonathan. Jonathan was the son of King Saul, and next in line for the throne. But Samuel anointed David to be the next king. This produced a strong conflict in the mind of Saul.
Interpretation:
• Religious conservatives generally view the friendship of David and Jonathan as totally non-sexual. They find it inconceivable that God would allow a famous king of Israel to be a homosexual.
• Some religious liberals believe that David and Jonathan had a consensual homosexual relationship – in many ways, a prototype of many of today’s gay partnerships. 7 Some important verses which describe their relationship are:
• 1 Samuel 18:1
“…Jonathan became one in spirit with David and he loved him as himself.” (NIV)
“…the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul” (KJV)
Most translations use the term “soul” rather than “spirit” to describe the bond. They speak of an “immediate bond of love”, their souls being “in unison,” their souls being “knit” etc. Genesis 2:7, as written in the original Hebrew, describes how God blew the spirit into the body of Adam that God had formed from earth, so that Adam became a living soul. This means that “soul”, in the ancient Israelite times, represents a combination of body and spirit. Thus the two men appear to have loved each other both physically and emotionally.
• 1 Samuel 18:2
“From that day, Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his father’s house.” (NIV)
David left his parent’s home and moved to Saul’s where he would be with Jonathan. This is a strong indication that the relationship was extremely close. It echoes the passage marriage passage in Genesis 2:24: “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”
• 1 Samuel 18:3-4
“And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.” (NIV)
Since people in those days did not wear underwear, Jonathan stripped himself naked in front of David. That would be considered extremely unusual behavior (then and now) unless their relationship was sexual in nature.
• 1 Samuel 18:20-21
“Now Saul’s daughter Michal was in love with David, and when they told Saul about it, he was pleased. ‘I will give her to him’, he thought, ‘so that she may be a snare to him and so that the hand of the Philistines may be against him’. Now you have a second opportunity to become my son-in-law” (NIV)
In the King James Version, the end of Verse 21 reads:
“Thou shalt this day be my son-in-law, in the one of the twain.” (KJV)
Saul’s belief was that David would be so distracted by a wife that he would not be an effective fighter and would be killed by the Philistines. He offered first his daughter Merab, but that was rejected, presumably by her. Then he offered Michal. There is an interesting phrase used at the end of verse 21. In both the NIV and KJV, it would seem that David’s first opportunity to be a son-in-law was with the older daughter Merab, and his second was with the younger daughter Michal. The KJV preserves the original text in its clearest form; it implies that David would become Saul’s son-in-law through “one of the twain.” “Twain” means “two”, so the verse seems to refer to one of Saul’s two daughters. Unfortunately, this is a mistranslation. The underlined phrase “the one of” does not exist in the Hebrew original. The words are shown in italics in the King James Version; this is an admission by the translators that they made the words up. Thus, if the KJV translators had been truly honest, they would have written:
“Thou shalt this day be my son-in-law, in the twain.”
In modern English, this might be written: “Today, you are son-in-law with two of my children” That would refer to both his son Jonathan and his daughter Michal. The Hebrew original would appear to recognize David and Jonathan’s homosexual relationship as equivalent to David and Michal’s heterosexual marriage. Saul may have approved or disapproved of the same-sex relationship; but at least he appears to have recognized it. The KJV highlight their re-writing of the Hebrew original by placing the three words in italics; the NIV translation is clearly deceptive.
• 1 Samuel 20:41
“After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with is face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together – but David wept the most.” (NIV)
Other translations have a different ending to the verse:
• “…and they kissed one another and wept with one another, until David exceeded.” (KJV)
• “…and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David got control of himself.” (Amplified Bible)
• “and they sadly shook hands, tears running down their cheeks until David could weep no more.” (Living Bible)
• “They kissed each other and wept together until David got control of himself.” (Modern Language)
• “They kissed each other and wept aloud together.” (New American Bible)
• “Then David and Jonathan kissed each other. They cried together, but David cried the most.” (New Century Version)
• “Then they kissed one another and shed tears together, until David’s grief was even greater than Jonathan’s.” (Revised English Bible)
• “…and they kissed one another and wept with one another until David recovered himself.” (Revised Standard Version)
The translators of the Living Bible apparently could not handle the thought of two adult men kissing, so they mistranslated the passage by saying that the two men shook hands! This is somewhat less than honest. The original Hebrew text says that they kissed each other and wept together until David became great. The word which means “great” in this passage is “gadal” in the original Hebrew. The same word is used elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to King Solomon being greater than all other kings. Some theologians interpret “gadal” in this verse as indicating that David had an erection. However, the thoughts of David becoming sexually aroused after kissing Jonathan may have been too threatening for Bible translators. They either deleted the ending entirely or created one of their own.
• 2 Samuel 1:26
“I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.”
In the society of ancient Israel, it was not considered proper for a man and woman to have a platonic relationship. Men and women rarely spoke to each other in public. Since David’s only relationships with women would have been sexual in nature, then he must be referring to sexual love here. It would not make sense in this verse to compare platonic love for a man with sexual love for a woman; they are two completely different phenomena. It would appear that David is referring to his sexual love for Jonathan.
Daniel and Ashpenaz
Daniel 1:9 refers to Ashpenaz, the chief of the court officials of Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon.
Various English translations differ greatly:
•”Now God had caused the official to show favor and sympathy to Daniel” (NIV)
•”Now God had brought Daniel into favor and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs” (KJV)
•”Now God made Daniel to find favor, compassion and loving-kindness with the chief of the eunuchs” (Amplified Bible)
•”Now, as it happens, God had given the superintendent a special appreciation for Daniel and sympathy for his predicament” (Living Bible)
•”Then God granted Daniel favor and sympathy from the chief of the eunuchs” (Modern Language)
•”Though God had given Daniel the favor and sympathy of the chief chamberlain…” (New American Bible)
•”God made Ashpenaz want to be kind and merciful to Daniel” (New Century Version)
•”And God gave Daniel favor and compassion in the sight of the chief of the eunuchs” (Revised Standard Version)
•”God caused the master to look on Daniel with kindness and goodwill” (Revised English Version)
Interpretation:
•Religious conservatives generally view the friendship of Daniel and Ashpenaz as totally non-sexual. It is inconceivable that God would allow a famous prophet of Israel to be a homosexual.
•Some religious liberals detect the possibility of a homosexual relationship here. The Hebrew words which describe the relationship between Daniel and Ashpenaz are chesed v’rachamim The most common translation of chesed is “mercy”. V’rachamim is in a plural form which is used to emphasize its relative importance. It has multiple meanings: “mercy” and “physical love”. It is unreasonable that the original Hebrew would read that Ashpenaz “showed mercy and mercy.” A more reasonable translation would thus be that Ashpenaz “showed mercy and engaged in physical love” with Daniel. Of course, this would be unacceptable to later translators, so they substitute more innocuous terms. The KJV reference to “tender love” would appear to be the closest to the truth. One might question whether Daniel and Ashpenaz could sexually consummate their relationship. They were both eunuchs. Apparently, when males are castrated after puberty, they still retain sexual drive. It is interesting to note that no other romantic interest or sexual partner of Daniel was mentioned elsewhere in the Bible.
Nice try,but God is NOT the author of confusion
Ah Bill, I’ve got a fine title for the book you’re about to write, considering the unbelievable ‘creativity’ you’ve been displaying here on the Forum. So here we go: GRAVE DANGERS AND MISCONCEPTIONS IN REGARD TO HOMOSEXUALITY. Well mate, aren’t you going to thank me? And you know, I just can’t wait to see the fruit of your phenomenal mind being rendered in print. I’ll even drink to the occasion tonight, albeit a wee bit prematurely, to be sure. Johnny Walker’s already beckoning, to tell you the truth……..
And here is a very nice article for you, to be included in your upcoming groundbreaking book…..
Its title? Gay and Lesbian Parenting: Child Development Concerns Debunked
A few quotes to whet your appetite
‘The American Psychological Association published a report in 2006 as part of a partnership with the National Association of Social Workers and the American Psychiatric Association. Authors noted in the publication that children raised by same sex couples were no more likely to present with developmental problems than those raised by male / female parents. In addition, researchers went on to state that any child raised by two parents, no matter the gender or sexual orientation, fared better than a child raised by only one parent’ !
‘G.M. Herek, a professor at the University of California, has completed extensive study on the effects of gay and lesbian stereotypes and legislature on adults and children. According to Herek, same sex couples have the same developmental issues as heterosexual couples. There is no known impact of gay and lesbian parents on child development.’
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5569316/gay_and_lesbian_parenting_child_development.html?cat=25
Enjoy and shudder……
Pro-’gay’ legislation ‘a waste of time’
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1331922
Immoralism, Homosexual Unhealth, and Scripture
A Response to Peterson and Hedlund’s
“Heterosexism, Homosexual Health, and the Church”
Part II: Science: Causation and Psychopathology, Promiscuity, Pedophilia, and Sexually Transmitted Disease
by
Robert A. J. Gagnon, Ph.D.
http://www.robgagnon.net/HeterosexismResponsePart2Science.htm
Homosexual community, gay marriage, sexual and family values
Why Are There Homosexuals?
-There are also a lot of peripheral issues that could be discussed here, but are not within the scope of this discussion. If a true exclusively homosexual/lesbian cohabitation and/or marriage were practiced, there would be no babies being born and within 100 years there would be no human beings left on this earth. SCARY HUH?
http://www.angelfire.com/in/HisName/homosexuality.html
Exactly right. I’ve come to the same conclusion and have said the same thing elsewhere. What gays don’t get is this:
We don’t give a flying f**k what you all do. But what we DO give flying f**k about is how you insist on pushing your behaviors in everyone’s face. You can’t have children of your own (two men, two women) so the only way to perpetuate your “behavior” is to indoctrinate our little ones. We don’t like that. Get it?
You LOVE to say we hate you. We don’t. Again, nobody really cares what you do. A person who looks, acts, dresses like the opposite sex is NOT, I repeat, is NOT normal! This is confusion.
Look at Chastity “Chaz” Bono. She once was a beautiful girl. Now she/he looks like an overweight gay man. The change is nothing short of astounding.
I have a male cousin who is gay. As a kid who understood nothing, knew nothing about sex, I KNEW there was something NOT RIGHT with him but didn’t know exactly what. I was only a kid younger than 6 and knew something was “off”.
Never the less, my sister and I loved playing with him. He played rough and we enjoyed it! My mom didn’t want us playing with him but didn’t stop us. We are cousins, after all. He did have some nasty habits, like spitting on people.
He was raised by his grandmother and his dad (her son) was hardly around…in and out of jail. My cousin was the only child. His bloodline will die out when he leaves this world. Being gay he has no natural children, so that branch of the family tree has withered, will eventually die and be cut off.
This is what happens and just as you have said, Bill, the human race would be eradicated within 100 years if all adopted this lifestyle. That is why homosexuality is a very dangerous road to travel and is not commensurate with life. Look what will happen to my cousin’s bloodline. It will CEASE to exist, wiped out!
So, somebody tell me again why this lifestyle choice should be accepted as “normal” behavior? Those thinking this is acceptable and normal are wanting the destruction of the human race.
The Fantasy Of The Homosexual Lifestyle
Comment:
Apart from any theological arguments, or any morality arguments, the societal value of “gay marriage” must be measured as a negative value by those who are responsible guardians of our contemporary society.
When a man refers to another man as his “wife” or a woman refers to another woman as her “wife,” it startles reality, doesn’t it? What is being tacitly stated is that there is a make-believe “marriage” which, statistically, will be a relationship of short duration, with both people having multiple sexual partners, that any commitment to such a “marriage” is lip-service only to satisfy an unstated heterosexual societal code, a horribly artificial and contrived method of incorporating babies into the “marriage” (in those very few instances where children are in such a household), an on-going scenario of mental health problems working themselves out in day to day living, many of which will turn into verbal aggression and domestic violence. And all the while living in a shroud of fear of contracting deadly sexually transmitted diseases.
Does this qualify as an ugly self-deceiving “let’s pretend” “fantasy” or not? GOT MY VOTE
http://www.angelfire.com/in/HisName/homosexuality.html
CDC Official: AIDS Rate is 50x Higher in Homosexual Men
– Although dated the statistics reveal the scope of the epidemic then. One can only wonder what they are NOW!
“The dangers of homosexual behavior have been long known to anyone with eyes to see them and ears to hear them, despite the “mainstream” media’s efforts to sweep this information under the rug and pretend it doesn’t exist; they are, after all, willing and eager participants in the effort to WHITEWASH homosexuality in the eyes of the public”
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/08/cdc-official-aids-rate-is-50x-higher-in-homosexual-men/
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 02:53:14 EDT
……………………………………………………………..
There is also some very important research just out from Dr. Anthony
R. D’Augelli at The Pennsylvania State University that adds to the
bleak statistics:
- 25% chose a family member as the first person to tell about their
sexual orientation.
- Only 11% said their family members “knew” and were supportive.
- Over 50% received professional counseling.
- Over 50% were “very troubled” by depression, anxiety, and wrory
about HIV infection.
- 30% said they had sometimes or often thought about killing
themselves.
- 42% had one or more suicide attempts.
- 24% had two or more suicide attempts.
- Profile of suicide attempters: aware of sexual orientation earlier,
lower self-esteem, more alcohol and drug problems, more out as
lesbian or gay, and lost more friends due to sexual orientation.
He has some other interesting data, as well (the following are all
averages):
- First aware ness of sexual orientation: age 10
- Self-labelling: age 15
- Told a parent: age 17
- First same-sex serious relationship: age 17
His works are:
“The Impact of Victimization on the Mental Health and Suicidality of
Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Youth”, Scott L. Hershberger & Anthony R.
D’Augelli. Department of Human Development and Family Studies, The
Pennsylvania State University. Currently in press.
“Victimization of Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Youth in Community
Settings”, Neil W. Pilkington, Department of Psychology, McGill
University. Anthony R. D’Augelli, Department of Human Development and
Family Studies, The Pennsylvania State University.
“Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Youth in Community Settings: Personal
Challenges and Mental Health Problems”, Anthony R. D’Augelli and Scott
L. Hershberger. Currently in press.
Chris Kryzan
National Coalition for Gay, Lesbian & Bisexual Youth
Comparing the Lifestyles of Homosexual Couples to Married Couples
A Canadian study of homosexual men who had been in committed relationships lasting longer than one year found that only 25 percent of those interviewed reported being monogamous.” According to study author Barry Adam, “Gay culture allows men to explore different…forms of relationships besides the monogamy coveted by heterosexuals.”
http://lgfonevolution.blogspot.com/2010/11/comparing-lifestyles-of-homosexual.html
Easy 10 Points the statistics of contracting a virus among homosexuals?
1. The danger of AIDS. The average age of men dying of AIDS is 39 11
2. Homosexuals usually have multiple partners, quickly spreading the AIDS virus
3. The average of gays dying of all other causes is 41
4. Only 1 % of men who practice homosexuality live to 65 or older (average heterosexual men live to be 65 plus)
5. Homosexuals are three times more likely to have alcohol or drug abuse problems
6. Homosexuals are 14 times more likely to have syphilis, and 23 times more likely to contract venereal disease.
7. In San Francisco, the rate of infectious Hepatitis A is twice the national average
8. The murder rate is 15 times higher among homosexuals than heterosexuals 12
9. The suicide rate among homosexuals is much higher than the national average. 20% of practicing homosexuals have attempted suicide. 13
Wildmon pointed to health statistics which estimate that 30% of all twenty-year-old homosexual males will be HIV-positive or dead of AIDS by the time they are 30. Similarly, in a study published in Oxford University’s International Journal of Epidemiology, researchers found that, at age 20, the life expectancy of homosexual and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men.
The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention report that men who engage in homosexual behavior are 860% more likely to contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD), increasing up to 500% their risk of contracting HIV/AIDS. Men who have sex with men “have large numbers of anonymous partners, which can result in rapid, extensive transmission of STDs,” the CDC warns. “Control of STDs is a central component of HIV infection prevention in the United States; resurgence of bacterial STD threatens national HIV infection prevention efforts.”
Gay Health reports that men who have sex with men are 320% more likely than heterosexuals to have unprotected sex without telling their partners they’re HIV-positive.
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080515091521AACC5X0
Bill, why is it that you have such an unhealthy obsession with homosexuality and disease. If it is something you are so against, why such a focus on it? Has something happened emotionally to you in your life to cause such negativity? Are you in a loving marriage with children? I always thought that when someone has the love of God in their heart they find a more positive way of using their time on Earth.
Pro-Homosexual Researchers Conceal Findings:
Children Raised by Openly Homosexual Parents More Likely to Engage in Homosexuality
By Trayce Hansen, Ph.D.
“Findings from the best and most recent twin studies have found that homosexuality, unlike eye color, is not genetically-caused. But there are a number of non-genetic mechanisms through which homosexuality could be transmitted from one generation to the next. Those mechanisms include role-modeling, social learning and differential reinforcement, as well as outright encouragement of non-heterosexuality by parents or others. ”
http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_prohomo.html
My Genes Made Me Do It! – A Scientific Look at Sexual Orientation.
Table of Contents
Introduction
Chapter 1. Can genes create sexual preferences?
Chapter 2. The genetic implications of SSA population percentage
Chapter 3. Are heterosexuals born that way?
Chapter 4. How strong are our instincts?
Chapter 5. What produces the sexual identity of intersexes?
Chapter 6. What do different cultures tell us about homosexuality?
Chapter 7. Pre-natal hormones? Stress? Immune attack?
Chapter 8. Are brains gay?
Chapter 9. The “discovery” of the “gay gene”
Chapter 10. Twin Studies: the strongest evidence
Chapter 11. Path Analysis – social factors do lead to homosexuality?
Chapter 12. Can sexual orientation change?
http://www.mygenes.co.nz/download.htm
Gay activists acknowledge severe health risks of lifestyle- AT LEAST THEY ARE HONEST!
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/090313
Mitt Romney: the man who gave us homosexual marriage
This is just one of several huge vulnerabilities Mitt Romney has as he tries to convince the members of his own party that he is conservative enough to claim the Republican mantle for 2012. His flip-flops on abortion, RomneyCare in Massachusetts, and the unorthodoxy of Mormon theology are just three of the other hurdles he will have to clear.
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/110415
Diversity, Homosexuality and Education
“If there is no God and we are all products of chance, with no ultimate purpose and probably no real choices, then it does not matter. And it is hard to convince anyone without hope to give up any pleasure when the alternative is complete despair.”
http://www.rossolson.org/homosexuality/diversity_homosexuality_education.html
VIDEO: Denise Jones – Ex-Drug Addict, Ex-Criminal, Ex-Lesbian
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” (2 Corinthians 5:17)
http://americansfortruth.com/
NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MARRIAGE APPLAUDS SPEAKER BOEHNER’S SELECTION OF PAUL CLEMENT AS ATTORNEY TO DEFEND DOMA !! -Bring it On!
“Thanks to Speaker Boehner’s actions, President Obama’s attempt to sabotage the legal defense of DOMA is not going to work.”
- Brian Brown, President of NOMhttp://www.nationformarriage.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=omL2KeN0LzH&b=5075187&ct=9355777¬oc=1
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=omL2KeN0LzH&b=5075187&ct=9355777¬oc=1
Bull about bullying
People who say that we should learn from other countries almost always mean that we should imitate what other countries do. But one of the most important things we can learn from other countries is to avoid the mistakes they have made.” – TRUE, HOW VERY TRUE. But there are those that insist that we in the United States are archaic, behind times, we should do as other countries do! Yea RIGHT!
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=288725
R
Florida court has struck down the state’s 33-year-old ban on gay adoptions (September 23 2010), ruling that the law is unconstitutional and there is “no rational basis” A very fine example to other States!!!
http://www.newser.com/story/101248/florida-court-strikes-down-gay-adoption-ban.html
Small, but significant victory for us same-sex lovers, nonetheless
This is how CHRISTIAN CHURCHES try to dodge our Tax Laws!!!
http://www.ffrf.org/news/releases/ffrf-calls-on-milwaukee-to-deny-tax-exemptions-to-faux-churches/
The Essence of Change and the Nature of Time
“For example, let’s say you are working or reading in a room by sunlight and you are reaching the end of the day. You will notice that there is a gradual dimming. It takes a while for the darkness to permeate. When you realize that you need more light you flip on the switch and get immediate results. You don’t have to wait for the light to fill the room. Even if all you did was light a match, you can immediately see everything around you. Also, when you compare sunset to sunrise you will notice that the transformation from night to day happens much faster. Thus you can now see that the darkness creeps in as the light wanes but as long as the light source remains unblocked, darkness has no existence” – A truly DIVINE CONCEPT Christians can relate to!
http://moshesharon.wordpress.com/category/philosophy/
Ex-Homosexual, Yes Ex-Homosexual (For young people with the homosexual struggle this video provides you hope there is an ESCAPE!!)
You have likely seen the Ex-Series T-shirts. There have been sightings of Ex-Atheists, Ex-Hustlers, and Ex-Slaves. Now, this is the most bold ministry launched by the Passion for Christ Movement, but it might also be the most necessary. We have among our number a sister who is an Ex-Homosexual and she’s been led by God to reach out to those still in bondage to that lifestyle.
With that, we have launched the Ex-Homosexual ministry. Listen to Larell as she explains why
http://www.p4cm.com/p4cm/events/ex-homosexual
FREEDOM from homosexuality is possible! Read JUSTIN’S testimony powerful evidence that change IS possible!! PRAISE GOD!!
“Sins like homosexuality were tied around my neck like a noose, waiting to fulfill the destruction they had planned for my life. I was proud of it, and not even slightly ashamed. Why would I be? I didn’t view it as a choice. “Who would choose this life?” I would often ask people. I believed that God had made me that way, and loved me for who I was. I didn’t know at the time that I was worshipping a god that I created for my own comfort. I was okay with all of my sins, so “my God” must have been okay with it too. Of course, that’s not really how it works, but many people have deceived themselves into thinking so. ”
http://awesomepurpose.com/
The preaching of the Word of God is not a subjective, experientially-based abstract. While we may approach different people different ways, any gospel which cannot be personally applied to the condition of the sinner is no gospel at all. The drunkard must hear what the Lord says about drunkenness; the adulterer must hear what the Lord says about adultery; the murderer must hear what the Lord says about murder; and the homosexual must hear what the Lord says about homosexuality.
In our earnestness to see the false gospel of the sodomite movement refuted, let us be careful not to preach a false gospel of our own. In our desire to see homosexuals saved and brought into the kingdom of God, let us be careful that we do not fall into a false compassion which encourages sin (A MESSAGE OF WARNING TO CHRISTIANS) !!
http://www.pccmonroe.org/Homosexuality/exhomosexual.htm
I Do Exist! — New Video Focuses on Ex-Homosexuals’ Stories
While organizations like the American Psychological Association (APA) are throwing their considerable weight behind the homosexual movement, a handful of notable members of the mental health field are countering with the truth about sexual orientation.
One of those professionals is Dr. Warren Throckmorton, director of college counseling and an associate professor of psychology at Grove City College, a private Christian college in Pennsylvania. His research on the possibility of changing sexual orientation was published in the June 2002 issue of Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, an official publication of the APA.
Supplementing the ex-gay testimonies are interviews with Throckmorton himself, Dr. Mark Yarhouse of the Regent University Department of Psychology, and Dr. Robert Spitzer, professor of psychiatry at Columbia University.
In 1973, Spitzer was one of the men who was instrumental in getting the American Psychiatric Association to officially remove homosexuality from its catalog of mental illnesses. He has since come to the conclusion that some homosexuals can change their sexual orientation, and last year released the results of a study to that effect.
Here is the link:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1207729/posts
Testimony of Ex-Gay Alan Chambers says Leaving Homosexuality is not about heterosexuality but rather holiness
“For so long I’ve heard gay activists say to me, “You’re just in denial. You’re not grasping the reality of the situation. You’re just denying who you really are.” The truth is, I am in denial, but it is self-denial. I’m not in denial of who I used to be. I’m not in denial of the temptations that I could still experience. I am denying the power that sin has over me.”
http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2009/07/testimony-of-ex-gay-alan-chambers-says.html
The Ex-Gay Myth—-Truth Wins Out
Gay rights activist & author Wayne Besen made a stop in Oklahoma City at the Church of the Open Arms as part of an 11 state tour. Most famous for his book “Anything but Straight” which exposes the fallacies of the ex-gay movement, he is also well known for political columns and work with various organizations including being a spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign.
Still an activist in many areas, his main focus is exposing true facts about changing sexual orientation. During the late 1990s many fundamentalist religious organizations changed from fire and brimstone scare tactics about gays and began focusing on reparative therapy to change gays and lesbians into heterosexuals through counseling, prayer and various types of questionable therapy.
One of the leading organizations in this movement was Focus on the Family and one of their success stories was James Paulk, who had been living a homosexual lifestyle and claimed he was changed. He had married a former lesbian in the movement, his wife Anne, and appeared to be successfully converted to a heterosexual living a straight Christian family life. He made the cover of Newsweek and had appeared on Oprah, making him the premier poster boy for this cause.
This changed one fateful night in the year 2000 when Wayne spotted and photographed Paulk at Mr. P’s, a gay bar in Washington D.C.
Paulk claimed to be using the restroom. Wayne didn’t buy that story nor did the public, and neither did Focus on the Family for whom he is no longer a spokesperson.
This encounter gave Besen excellent material for “Anything but Straight” which he was working on at the time, and the book features a cover photo of Paulk fleeing from the bar.
Although this has been followed by other scandals of high profile supposed ex-gays caught backsliding, failure to permanently change sexual orientation has almost always proven to be the rule rather than the exception.
Techniques include prayer, teaching men to play football and giving lesbians makeup lessons, which sometimes creates gay football players and lipstick lesbians but almost always fails to change sexual orientation. The results frequently are tragic.
Many who attempt this change have left partners and/or entered into doomed marriages resulting in broken families. As for the individuals themselves, most prove the American Medical Association correct in their statement that attempts to change sexual orientation often result in “severe anxiety, depression and anti-social behavior.” Many of the unchanged turn to drugs, alcohol or even suicide to escape the pain of what they feel is a personal failure.
Among the many ex-gay organizations are People can Change, Homosexuals Anonymous, Courage, and probably the best known and oldest, Exodus International (who’s two founders, Michael Bussey and Gary Cooper left their wives to marry each other).
Exodus has held seminars called Love Won Out to promote reparative therapy to change homosexuals into heterosexuals, including one held in Oklahoma City in 2003.
Since Besen finished his book, he has done numerous television appearances and personal speaking engagements on this subject, including a previous appearance in Oklahoma City in 2003 that coincided with the before mentioned Love Wins Out seminar held there. Since then much has changed including a shift in America towards greater acceptance of the LGBT community.
Gallup polls show over 50% of Americans believe homosexuality is OK, (with even more so with those under 30) and the repeal of the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy of the U.S. Military.
But far from running from the fight opponents are, as Besen puts it, “fighting back tooth and nail, getting more shrill, getting angrier, and they will not give up. Into this mix comes the ex-gay movement. “
Besen pointed out that their increased intensity recently is due to two factors: They see the increasing acceptance of the LGBT community by American society, and also find fewer homosexuals and lesbians seek change as society becomes more accepting. The ex-gay movement, by portraying homosexuality as a choice, is used as a justification for discrimination.
He pointed out since the Religious Right is losing support in America they are promoting their anti-gay cause overseas particularly in eastern Europe and Africa, especially currently in Uganda.
In Uganda, legislation is pending to make homosexuality a capital crime and to imprison those who are supportive of gay rights or even those who don’t report homosexuals to the government.
As Besen puts it, “Their whole goal is to create a situation where there are anti-gay countries all around the world surrounding the United States and western Europe.”
In closing he stated, “We have to move forward, particularly in churches, and speak the truth. We have to send our message across this country, expose what is going on, and counter this misinformation and sometimes hatred with love. Not their phony, sugarcoated type of love or their two-faced version when they talk to the media, but very general genuine love. But only through speaking out, saying ‘No this isn’t right! No this isn’t sinful!’ will we move forward.”
The Ex-Gay Myth – An awful con game?
Ex-Gay Ministries? Is what they offer myth or genuine reality? If you’re gay and Christian, you’ve probably been through the struggle or are now going through the struggle to become heterosexual. You know their scam.
They tell you the Bible condemns homosexuality and you can’t be saved and gay and happy in Jesus. You trust them because they’re older and wiser and they’re supposed to know what they’re talking about.
You try to pray away the gay. You strengthen your resolve and positively affirm, “I’m not gay!” You struggle to change. You read anti-gay propaganda. You visit anti-gay websites. And if you or your family has enough money, you join an Ex-Gay program and struggle in community.
And soon you’re $10,000 poorer
and still gay.
So you struggle with disappointment and disillusionment and decide you have to back off from your Christianity. After all, God wanted you to change – that’s what all the smart Christians told you – and you couldn’t change – even after spending $10,000 on an Ex-Gay program specifically designed to help you change.
And inside you a conflict grows. Some of the people who ran the Ex-Gay program were sincere Christians. Yet what they taught didn’t work for you. And it didn’t work for the others who endured an Ex-Homo or Ex-Lezzie ministry.
Never bought into the myth?
If some of you who never bought into the Ex-Gay myth and never spent the $10,000 trying to change are feeling a little superior at this point, I don’t blame you.
gay christians
Years ago, some of us bought into the lie that you can’t be gay and Christian. Some of us bought into the additional lie that if you’re gay, you have to reject the Bible as infallible truth and be a liberal (Bible rejecting) “Christian.”
For some of us, the hard work of trying to become heterosexual seemed worthwhile because it was pitched as God’s will. Preachers told us that gay is always wrong and God doesn’t bless “the sin of being gay.”
Discouraged, alone, confused, I began to read and study the Bible and the clobber passages. I determined to find the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
It was not an easy road. But God had a secret weapon to show me His way. God’s secret weapon was the Holy Spirit. As I studied the Bible, the Holy Spirit began to make things clear to me in the written word of God. He pointed out the context of the clobber passages and taught me to interpret scripture beginning with the situation it originally addressed.
A moment of wisdom came when
I started recognizing the red flags.
amazing grace
1. I started avoiding ministries which parroted anti-gay rhetoric while refusing to read the clobber passages in context.
2. I started avoiding the false claimers – the Ex-G ministries which promised change from homosexual to heterosexual.
3. I became wary of Ex-G ministries which subtly stopped promising orientation change but continued to charge thousands of dollars for their programs.
Although I never enrolled in their programs, I did read their literature and books and earnestly tried to put into practice what they taught.
4. I started noticing that the people leading the ex-gay ministries, even the ex-gays now heterosexually married – publicly claimed to still have homosexual longings and attractions.
It was like a light bulb went on in my head.
If these people had really changed
from homosexual to heterosexual,
wouldn’t their sexual temptations
now be heterosexual?
free in jesus
If their sexual temptations were still homosexual, wasn’t that proof positive that they were still homosexually oriented?
Think about it.
Heterosexuals don’t go through life struggling with homosexual temptation.
Homosexuals don’t go through life struggling with heterosexual temptation.
I changed my views about the ex-gays industry. I realized that if I bought into their lies, I would become like them. I would have to participate in their Ponzi scheme.
I would have to pretend to be changed, knowing all the while that I was not changed. Having come out of the closet once, if I followed the ex-gay rhetoric, I would have to go back into the metaphysical closet and spend the rest of my life there.
As an ex-gay I would have to follow ex-gay methodology. I would have to promote change while knowing deep in my heart, that I had not changed. I would have to live a lie with a smile on my face and despair in my heart. I would have to join the scam, promoting the same wicked lies to other gays and lesbians. And frankly,
the thought of doing that sickened me.
It dawned on me that the Holy Spirit did not bear witness in my heart to the truth of the ex-gay lies. I wanted an honest life, lived in the power of the Holy Spirit, without subterfuge and deception.
I didn’t want to embrace the false hope of change so that Christians who refused to read the Bible in context would like me again.
I didn’t want to soothe their feelings
to gain their acceptance.
God’s truth never goes along to get along. If God’s truth makes you uncomfortable, the problem isn’t with God’s truth. The problem is with you and you need to change because God’s truth will not change.
Things didn’t improve right away.
Spiritual life continued to be difficult while I studied and learned and grew in knowledge of God, the Bible and myself. Friends I had known for years began to drift away, quietly breaking fellowship. Most of them never had the courage to say why they broke off our friendship but I know it was over the gay issue.
I began to make new friends. And I noticed that God still blessed me and still answered my prayers. The attitude of some of my Baptist friends toward me had changed but God’s loving attitude toward me never changed. God was always there, faithful and consistent.
Christian testimony of a former homosexual- Excellent read for CHRISTIANS!!
What follows is the testimony of an individual who previously practiced the homosexual lifestyle before accepting Jesus Christ as savior. This is the story of one who gave up a life opposed to God’s law, and by God’s grace became a believer and a follower.
http://themasterstable.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/christian-testimony-of-a-former-homosexual/
The Damaging Practice of Conversion or Reparative Therapy
Rather than resolving conflicts, reparative therapy programs create new ones by falsely promising gay people who are unhappy with their sexual orientation that they can become heterosexual. When gay men and women find that they can’t change, they end up with feelings of guilt and failure that lead to depression, loss of friends and social support, addictive behaviors, and substance abuse. – CRISIS – 40 Stories Revealing the Personal, Social, and Religious Pain and Trauma of Growing Up Gay in America
Reparative Therapy is a serious matter.
The practice has caused much physical and emotional damage to LGBT people by organizations who wrongfully say they can cure homosexuality.
Too often, young people are forced to undergo Conversion Therapy by parents and ministers who refuse to accept that they are gay. Parents need to understand that being gay is ok and that their child was created this way in God’s eyes. While some religions wrongfully condemn homosexuality, many embrace it and believe it is part of God’s natural order.
Parents also need to understand that you can’t change a person’s sexuality by forcing them to go through the damaging practice of conversion or reparative therapy. And understand the serious emotional and psychological damage they will cause their son or daughter if they put them through this process.
Who You Are is a Great Thing
Being gay is a great thing – don’t let anyone tell you differently. Gay people lead normal, happy and productive lives and you can too. Do not let anyone tell you that because you are gay, you are a sinner or immoral. You are not.
Some will describe being gay as a lifestyle choice. They are wrong. Homosexuality is no more a choice than heterosexuality is. The argument that being gay is a lifestyle choice creates a false hope in the minds of parents that their child’s sexual orientation can change.
It also creates a feeling amongst gay youth and adults who feel they must try to change their sexual orientation to be accepted by family, friends and society.
Don’t let them tell you that sexuality is a choice.
One of the central claims made in defense of religion-based bigotry is that sexuality is a choice – a choice that can be changed with prayer and professional guidance. This mistaken belief has lead to the creation of this disturbing practice. Conversion or reparative therapy promotes the myth that a same-sex attraction can be lessened or cured.
Extremist groups such as Exodus International and Love in Action prey on the insecurity and self-hate created in the minds of LGBT people by religion-based bigotry. These groups promise to lead people out of the “darkness” of homosexuality.
Every reputable health organization in the country condemns conversion or reparative therapy, including the American Psychological and Psychiatric Associations, the American Medical Association, and the National Organization of Social Workers, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Psychoanalytic Association.
Below you will find statements from these organizations on why these therapies do not work and why they cause great harm:
American Academy of Pediatrics (1993)
“Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation.”
American Medical Association (2003)
“Our AMA opposes the use of ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy that is based on the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation.”
American Psychoanalytic Association (2000)
“Psychoanalytic technique does not encompass purposeful efforts to ‘convert’ or ‘repair’ an individual’s sexual orientation. Such directed efforts are against fundamental principles of psychoanalytic treatment and often result in substantial psychological pain by reinforcing damaging internalized homophobic attitudes.”
American Psychiatric Association (1998)
“The American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as reparative or conversion therapy, which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the priori assumption that a patient should change his/her sexual homosexual orientation.” The APA removed homosexuality from its list of disorders in 1973.
American Psychological Association (1997)
“No scientific evidence exists to support the effectiveness of any of the conversion therapies that try to change sexual orientation.” The association removed homosexuality from its list of disorders in 1975.
National Association of Social Workers (2000)
“People seek mental health services for many reasons. Accordingly, it is fair to assert that lesbians and gay men seek therapy for the same reasons that heterosexual people do. However, the increase in media campaigns, often coupled with coercive messages from family and community members, has created an environment in which lesbians and gay men often are pressured to seek reparative or conversion therapies, which cannot and will not change sexual orientation. Aligned with the American Psychological Association’s (1997) position, NCLGB believes that such treatment potentially can lead to severe emotional damage. Specifically, transformational ministries are fueled by stigmatization of lesbians and gay men, which in turn produces the social climate that pressures some people to seek change in sexual orientation. No data demonstrate that reparative or conversion therapies are effective, and in fact they may be harmful.
“Ex Ex-gay”
While the practitioners and promoters of conversion or reparative therapy tout its success, many leaders of the movement have either voluntarily left the practice and now live as openly gay men and women or have been forced out of their organizations when it came to light that despite the claims that it is possible to change a person’s sexuality, they were secretly leading double lives.
The link below will take you to a site founded by former leaders in the ex-gay movement who are now happily and openly gay and wished to apologize to all of the people hurt by the false premise of conversion or reparative therapy.
http://www.beyondexgay.com/article/apology
It is not our goal to target or denigrate people of faith who are opposed to homosexuality. However, it is important for the public to be aware of the deep, lasting harm caused by conversion or reparative therapy and the ex-gay movement, even to its most devoted and vocal members.
John Paulk – Chairman of the Board of Exodus International, John Paulk was featured as “Ex-gay” on the cover of Newsweek Magazine and was later spotted in a popular Washington, DC gay bar.
George Rekers – Rekers helped found the Family Research Council and is a former officer and scientific advisor of the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), an organization offering conversion therapy intended to change homosexuals into heterosexuals. Rekers has testified on the allegedly destructive and sinful nature of homosexuality, and the unsuitability of gay and lesbian people for parenthood, in a number of court cases involving organizations and state agencies working with children.
In May 2010, it was widely reported that Rekers had hired a young travel companion who offered male prostitution through a website called Rentboy.com to travel with him, carry his bags, and provide daily one-hour nude massages during a ten-day trip to Europe.
Michael Bussee – One of the original founders of Exodus International, Bussee eventually left the organization and married his partner, Exodus International co-founder Gary Cooper.
Michael Johnston – Johnston is an HIV-positive man who is featured in the film It’s Not Gay, promoted by the American Family Association. He had frequently been interviewed on U.S. television and radio regarding his own claimed change in sexuality, and even featured in a national television advertising campaign in 1998 stating that Jesus Christ empowered him to leave his homosexual past. In 2002, he resumed having sex with men, admitted to having had unprotected sex with multiple male partners without disclosing his HIV-positive status, despite knowing he was HIV-positive, for over a period of two years.
Terrance Lewis – A minister and former counselor at Providence Bible College in Winnipeg, Canada, Lewis was found guilty in February 2008 for sexually assaulting a young man who sought counseling to make him heterosexual. The victim testified that he started meeting Lewis for counseling sessions in early 2000 after his parents caught him viewing gay pornography on the family computer. The man said Lewis started a program of “touch therapy,” which included the two kissing and fondling each other and engaging in sexual role-playing.
Allan Downing – Downing, the lead therapist for the ex-gay group Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality (JONAH) is accused of making clients undress and touch themselves in front of him as part of his “therapy.”
Absolutely revealing Burton. Thank you so much for posting about the shameless FRAUD and the MISINFORMATION related to this so-called EX-GAY MOVEMENT, so loudly revered by gay-hating Religious Right-wingers. It’s nothing short of criminal, of course, to give false hope to those poor fools who think they can be “cured” of their gayness and end up wriggling themselves into marriages doomed to fail miserably sooner or later. Poor wives, poor children. I think it’s high time for the Departments of Public Health to initiate an investigation into the legitimacy and above all the dangers of these “therapeutic” practices, notably to clients’ mental health status. These idiot-therapists, these psychopaths MUST be stopped, at last.
AFA supports Boehner’s defense strategy
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1332516
A Lesbian’s Deliverance
“After 29 years as a gay activist, former lesbian magazine publisher Charlene Cothran stunned the homosexual community when she announced she had become a Christian.
She has renounced her homosexuality, and changed the format of her magazine to spread the Gospel to the gay community.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/180565.aspx
Exodus International Offers Christian Ministry to Homosexuals
Exodus International offers referrals for those desiring to leave the homosexual lifestyle to ministries that may either be lay or nonprofessional ministries, professional counseling ministries, or church ministries. Exodus International is the largest Christian referral and networking organization in the world that deals with homosexual issues. The organization also offers a monthly newsletter that includes testimonies from those in the “ex-gay movement,” book reviews, video reviews, prayer requests, testimonies of healing, and more information
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/348892/exodus_international_offers_christian.html
Journey Into Manhood is a 48-hour immersion in intensive emotional-healing work, designed specifically for men who are self-motivated and serious about resolving unwanted homosexual attractions.- 4 OUT OF 5 REPORT REDUCTION IN SSA!!!!!! GIVE GOD THE GLORY !!!!!!!!
Journey Into Manhood is a 48-hour immersion in self-discovery, catharsis and emotional healing. We create a highly supportive yet challenging environment designed specially for men who are serious about resolving unwanted homosexual attractions. It is an experiential weekend – meaning you won’t just sit and listen, you’ll experience, actively participate, connect and explore.
Journey Into Manhood is offered at camps and retreat centers about eight times a year throughout the U.S. and in England.
It is not a religious retreat, although we do teach the spiritual principle of surrender to a Higher Power. It is not professional therapy; it is a peer-led experience run by men who have been where you are now.
http://www.peoplecanchange.com/jim/
“Gender-Affirmative Therapy” Can Help!!!
Call it “gender-affirmative” therapy: learning to experience at last, in non-sexual ways, the masculine love and affirmation we had secretly longed for all our lives. In many ways, that is what those of us who sought out reparative therapy or inner-child therapy experienced.
Gay activists have lambasted and politicized reparative or sexual re-orientation therapy and persuaded the major therapeutic professional associations, out of political correctness, to vilify and condemn it. Deliberate mis-characterizations of reparative therapy abound.
But those of us who went through reparative therapy found it to be a deeply healing experience. It helped bring us out of shame. It helped us release anger. It helped us heal lifelong hurts and emotional wounds. It taught us how to “repair” childhood yearnings for male affirmation and acceptance by fulfilling them, often with new heterosexual male friends and mentor-father figures, instead of repressing them. Instead of focusing on our sexual orientation, reparative therapy focused on healing with other men (especially our fathers and peers) and with ourselves as men
http://www.narth.com/docs/website.html
Our Solution: A M.A.N.S. Journey – VERY PROMISING EXPERIENCE!
In his book, Growth Into Manhood (Harold Shaw Publishers, 2000), Alan Medinger writes (page 239) that homosexuality is not a single problem or conflict, but a group of problems that together produce homosexual attractions. Each of these problems must be dealt with individually, he writes. So it was that we found that reducing or eliminating homosexual feelings and causing heterosexual desires to develop required life changes in four broad, overlapping areas:
Masculinity
Authenticity
Need Fulfillment
Surrender
http://www.peoplecanchange.com/change/mans.php
Christian testimony of a former homosexual- GOOD READ FOR CHRISTAINS!!
What follows is the testimony of an individual who previously practiced the homosexual lifestyle before accepting Jesus Christ as savior. This is the story of one who gave up a life opposed to God’s law, and by God’s grace became a believer and a follower
http://themasterstable.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/christian-testimony-of-a-former-homosexual/
IS HOMOSEXUALITY A SIN OR IS IT PERMISSIBLE? (Interesting site)
Question – I have often been told that the gay lifestyle is wrong and that one has a need to change. Whereas it is difficult to believe such a story when one knows that to be gay is not a choice but is a matter of what and who you are. Surely a gay person who loves God and follows him will be loved by God and still counted as one of his Children.
Can anyone out there give me some biblical truth to back this up? This is a matter that I have been meaning to ask someone for some time now but never know of this place and since I am here now, perhaps some of you will enjoy this little bit of homework. I have been told that there is somewhere in the Bible where it is found, that it is ok to be homosexual, but I don’t know where it is! Can you help?
ANSWER:
Unfortunately, whoever has told you that the Bible condones (thinks it is ok) people continuing in the practice of a homosexual lifestyle has sadly misled you.
To clarify your question, there are at least four matter which the bible clearly affirms:
1. God loves all people.
2. God hates and condemns the sin of homosexuality.
3. Homosexuality is a choice, a sin we have chosen to commit.
4. In order to be saved, one must turn from this and from all sin.
http://bibleman77.webs.com/homosexuality.htm
Homosexual high school clubs increase risk of suicide says parents and friends of ex-gays & gays… DO YA THINK??????
“What the article failed to describe,” said PFOX Executive Director Regina Griggs, “is the danger of young sexually confused teens self-identifying as gays at an early age. Research has shown that the risk of suicide decreases by 20% each year that a person delays homosexual or bisexual self-labeling. Early self-identification is dangerous to kids.
http://www.tldm.org/News12/HomosexualHighSchoolClubsIncreaseRiskOfSuicide.htm
Mike Goeke – Homosexual Confusion in Marriage EXCELLENT TESTIMONY!!
Mike shares his story of growing up gay and the understanding that God has since given him concerning the factors in his family and school environment that created the confusion. He also tells the story of what homosexual confusion can do to a marriage.
http://vimeo.com/2643035
Sy Rogers – Freedom from Homosexuality and Transsexualism
Sy Rogers tells his story of a broken relationship with his parents and the sexual brokenness that evolved from that, including sexual identity confusion and transsexualism. Sy also describes how God has set him free, healed his broken sexuality and has given him a wife and a son.
http://vimeo.com/3273904
Jayson Graves – Sex Addiction, Porn, Child Sex Abuse, Homosexuality
Talk about the power of GOD to heal and forgive us all !! WOW!
In this episode, “Pure Passion” co-host Jayson Graves tells his story of being sexually abused by both a male and a female and the consequent sexual addiction, porn use, masturbation and homosexual confusion that ensued.
http://vimeo.com/2530780
Bill, you are an extreme closet case. Come out!
Former Homosexual Says ‘No one is born gay’ Read interview with 700 Club reporter LEE WEBB
Stephen Bennett is a former homosexual, who lived the “gay” lifestyle for 11 years. Today he’s married and has two young children. He’s also a born-again Christian who has a ministry to men and women who want to be set free from homosexuality. Whenever he’s invited to appear on television news programs, though, Stephen says most won’t let him tell his story truthfully. And they won’t let him say that he’s a former homosexual.
I lived the gay lifestyle until I was 28 years old, probably for about 11 years. Well, with over 100 men sexually, many of whom are dead today from AIDS. I’ve buried countless boyfriends in the ground because of AIDS.
I was in love with another man who was going to be my partner for life, until a Christian woman showed up at my door one day with a Bible and said that I could be set free from my homosexuality. That was back in 1990 and my life has never been the same again.
http://www.albatrus.org/english/potpourri/homosex/former_homo_says_not_born_gay.htm
Bill, you need to stop your self-loathing and just come out of the closet! You can take your computer out with you.
Homosexuality On Trial – 3. Prosecution Charge: Homosexuals Are Sinful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h58RR1a–So
Watch and you’ll see the answer
What same-sex “marriage” has done to Massachusetts
It’s far worse than most people realize
“marriage.” Six months later, homosexual marriages began to be performed.
The public schools
The homosexual “marriage” onslaught in public schools across the state started soon after the November 2003, court decision.
•At my own children’s high school there was a school-wide assembly to celebrate same-sex “marriage” in early December, 2003. It featured an array of speakers, including teachers at the school who announced that they would be “marrying” their same-sex partners and starting families either through adoption or artificial insemination. Literature on same-sex marriage – how it is now a normal part of society – was handed out to the students.
•Within months it was brought into the middle schools. In September, 2004, an 8th-grade teacher in Brookline, MA, told National Public Radio that the marriage ruling had opened up the floodgates for teaching homosexuality. “In my mind, I know that, `OK, this is legal now.’ If somebody wants to challenge me, I’ll say, `Give me a break. It’s legal now,’” she told NPR. She added that she now discusses gay sex with her students as explicitly as she desires. For example, she said she tells the kids that lesbians can have vaginal intercourse using sex toys.
•By the following year it was in elementary school curricula. Kindergartners were given picture books telling them that same-sex couples are just another kind of family, like their own parents. In 2005, when David Parker of Lexington, MA – a parent of a kindergartner – strongly insisted on being notified when teachers were discussing homosexuality or transgenderism with his son, the school had him arrested and put in jail overnight.
Second graders at the same school were read a book, “King and King”, about two men who have a romance and marry each other, with a picture of them kissing. When parents Rob and Robin Wirthlin complained, they were told that the school had no obligation to notify them or allow them to opt-out their child.
•In 2006 the Parkers and Wirthlins filed a federal Civil Rights lawsuit to force the schools to notify parents and allow them to opt-out their elementary-school children when homosexual-related subjects were taught. The federal judges dismissed the case. The judges ruled that because same-sex marriage is legal in Massachusetts, the school actually had a duty to normalize homosexual relationships to children, and that schools have no obligation to notify parents or let them opt-out their children! Acceptance of homosexuality had become a matter of good citizenship!
Think about that: Because same-sex marriage is “legal”, a federal judge has ruled that the schools now have a duty to portray homosexual relationships as normal to children, despite what parents think or believe!
•In 2006, in the elementary school where my daughter went to Kindergarten, the parents of a third-grader were forced to take their child out of school because a man undergoing a sex-change operation and cross-dressing was being brought into class to teach the children that there are now “different kinds of families.” School officials told the mother that her complaints to the principal were considered “inappropriate behavior.”
•Libraries have also radically changed. School libraries across the state, from elementary school to high school, now have shelves of books to normalize homosexual behavior and the lifestyle in the minds of kids, some of them quite explicit and even pornographic. Parents complaints are ignored or met with hostility.
Over the past year, homosexual groups have been using taxpayer money to distribute a large, slick hardcover book celebrating homosexual marriage titled “Courting Equality” into every school library in the state.
•It’s become commonplace in Massachusetts schools for teachers to prominently display photos of their same-sex “spouses” and occasionally bring them to school functions. Both high schools in my own town now have principals who are “married” to their same-sex partners, whom they bring to school and introduce to the students.
•“Gay days” in schools are considered necessary to fight “intolerance” which may exist against same-sex relationships. Hundreds of high schools and even middle schools across the state now hold “gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender appreciation days”. They “celebrate” homosexual marriage and move forward to other behaviors such as cross-dressing and transsexuality. In my own town, a school committee member recently announced that combating “homophobia” is now a top priority.
Once homosexuality has been normalized, all boundaries will come down. The schools are already moving on to normalizing transgenderism (including cross-dressing and sex changes). The state-funded Commission on Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Youth includes leaders who are transsexuals.
Public health
•The Commissioner of the Massachusetts Department of Public Health is “married” to another man. In 2007 he told a crowd of kids at a state-sponsored youth event that it’s “wonderful being gay” and he wants to make sure there’s enough HIV testing available for all of them.
•Since homosexual marriage became “legal” the rates of HIV / AIDS have gone up considerably in Massachusetts. This year public funding to deal with HIV/AIDS has risen by $500,000. As the homosexual lobby group MassEquality wrote to their supporters after successfully persuading the Legislature to spend that money: “With the rate of HIV infections rising dramatically in Massachusetts, it’s clear the fight against AIDS is far from over.”
•Citing “the right to marry” as one of the “important challenges” in a place where “it’s a great time to be gay”, the Massachusetts Department of Public Health helped produce The Little Black Book, Queer in the 21st Century, a hideous work of obscene pornography which was given to kids at Brookline High School on April 30, 2005. Among other things, it gives “tips” to boys on how to perform oral sex on other males, masturbate other males, and how to “safely” have someone urinate on you for sexual pleasure. It also included a directory of bars in Boston where young men meet for anonymous sex.
Domestic violence
•Given the extreme dysfunctional nature of homosexual relationships, the Massachusetts Legislature has felt the need to spend more money every year to deal with skyrocketing homosexual domestic violence. This year $350,000 was budgeted, up $100,000 from last year.
Business
•All insurance in Massachusetts must now recognize same-sex “married” couples in their coverage. This includes auto insurance, health insurance, life insurance, etc.
•Businesses must recognize same-sex “married” couples in all their benefits, activities, etc., regarding both employees and customers.
•The wedding industry is required serve the homosexual community if requested. Wedding photographers, halls, caterers, etc., must do same-sex marriages or be arrested for discrimination.
•Businesses are often “tested” for tolerance by homosexual activists. Groups of homosexual activists often go into restaurants or bars and publicly kiss and fondle each other to test whether the establishment demonstrates sufficient “equality” — now that homosexual marriage is “legal”. In fact, more and more overt displays of homosexual affection are seen in public places across the state to reinforce “marriage equality”.
Legal profession
•The Massachusetts Bar Exam now tests lawyers on their knowledge of same-sex “marriage” issues. In 2007, a Boston man, Stephen Dunne, failed the Massachusetts bar exam because he refused to answer the questions in it about homosexual marriage.
•Issues regarding homosexual “families” are now firmly entrenched in the Massachusetts legal system. In many firms, lawyers in Massachusetts practicing family law must now attend seminars on homosexual “marriage”. There are also now several homosexual judges overseeing the Massachusetts family courts.
Adoption of children to homosexual “married” couples
•Homosexual “married” couples can now demand to be able to adopt children the same as normal couples. Catholic Charities decided to abandon handling adoptions rather submit to regulations requiring them to allow homosexuals to adopt the children in their care.
•In 2006 the Massachusetts Department of Social Services (DSS) honored two men “married” to each other as their “Parents of the Year”. The men already adopted a baby through DSS (against the wishes of the baby’s birth parents). According to news reports, the day after that adoption was final DSS approached the men about adopting a second child. Homosexuals now appear to be put in line for adopting children ahead of heterosexual parents by state agencies in Massachusetts.
Government mandates
•In 2004, Governor Mitt Romney ordered Justices of the Peace to perform homosexual marriages when requested or be fired. At least one Justice of the Peace decided to resign.
•Also thanks to Gov. Romney, marriage licenses in Massachusetts now have “Party A and Party B” instead of “husband and wife.” Romney did not have a legal requirement to do this; he did it on his own. (See more on this below.)
•Since homosexual relationships are now officially “normal”, the Legislature now gives enormous tax money to homosexual activist groups. In particular, the Massachusetts Commission on Gay Lesbian Bisexual and Transgender Youth is made up of the most radical and militant homosexual groups which target children in the schools. This year they are getting $700,000 of taxpayer money to go into the public schools.
•In 2008 Massachusetts changed the state Medicare laws to include homosexual “married” couples in the coverage.
The public square
•Since gay “marriage”, annual gay pride parades have become more prominent. There are more politicians and corporations participating, and even police organizations take part. And the envelope gets pushed further and further. There is now a profane “Dyke March” through downtown Boston, and recently a “transgender” parade in Northampton that included bare-chested women who have had their breasts surgically removed so they could “become” men. Governor Patrick even marched with his “out lesbian” 17-year old daughter in the 2008 Boston Pride event, right behind a “leather” group brandishing a black & blue flag, whips and chains!
The media
•Boston media, particularly the Boston Globe newspaper, regularly does feature stories and news stories portraying homosexual “married” couples where regular married couples would normally be used. It’s “equal”, they insist, so there must be no difference in the coverage. Also, the newspaper advice columns now deal with homosexual “marriage” issues, and how to properly accept it.
•A growing number of news reporters and TV anchors are openly “married” homosexuals who march in the “gay pride” parades.
Is gay marriage actually legal in Massachusetts?
Like everywhere else in America, the imposition of same-sex marriage on the people of Massachusetts was a combination of radical, arrogant judges and pitifully cowardly politicians.
The Goodridge ruling resulted in a complete cave-in by politicians of both parties on this issue. Same-sex “marriage” is still illegal in Massachusetts. On November 18, 2003 the court merely ruled that it was unconstitutional not to allow it, and gave the Legislature six months to “take such action as it may deem appropriate.” Note that the Massachusetts Constitution strongly denies courts the power to make or change laws, or from ordering the other branches to take any action. The constitution effectively bans “judicial review” – a court changing or nullifying a law. Thus, the court did not order anything to happen; it simply rendered an opinion on that specific case. And the Legislature did nothing. The marriage statutes were never changed. However, against the advice of many, Gov. Romney took it upon himself to alter the state’s marriage licenses to say “Party A and Party B” and order officials to perform same-sex “weddings” if asked, though he had no legal obligation to do so. Technically, same-sex marriages are still illegal in Massachusetts.
Nevertheless, we are having to live with it. And furthermore, this abdication of their proper constitutional roles by the Legislature and Governor has caused a domino effect as “copycat” rulings have been issued in California and Connecticut, with other states fearful it will happen there.
In conclusion
Homosexual “marriage” hangs over society like a hammer with the force of law. And it’s only just begun.
It’s pretty clear that the homosexual movement’s obsession with marriage is not because large numbers of them actually want to marry each other. Research shows that homosexual relationships are fundamentally dysfunctional on many levels, and “marriage” as we know it isn’t something they can achieve, or even desire. (In fact, over the last three months, the Sunday Boston Globe’s marriage section hasn’t had any photos of homosexual marriages. In the beginning it was full of them.) This is about putting the legal stamp of approval on homosexuality and imposing it with force throughout the various social and political institutions of a society that would never accept it otherwise. To the rest of America: You’ve been forewarned.
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/effects_of_ssm.html
Homosexual Marriage: Much to Fear
by Burman Skrable
First, one must consider why societies
recognize marriage in the first place. This involves specifying
certain needs which societies have, which societies consider to be
satisfied by marriage. Second, having identified the needs, we
must consider what characteristics marriage should have to fulfill
that role. Third, we consider how extending the privilege of
marriage to same-sex couples would affect the ability of marriage
to do what societies need it to do.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/HOMOMARR.TXT
Prop 8 Ruling Could Criminalize Christianity, Leaders Warn (THAT WILL BE THE DAY!!)
“Let me spell it out for you, If they say that telling what the Bible says about homosexuality is hate speech, and cannot be allowed — we will be arrested in our pulpits. We will obey God rather than man,” he told CNSNews.com
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/71107
Homosexual Adoption – RECRUITMENT VS REPRODUCTION
“If God intended for homosexual couples to have and raise children he would have made it possible naturally. There are some cases that heterosexual couples adopt because they are unable to have children”
http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/46261.html
Homosexuality and the Truth: Is it Just Another Lifestyle?
By Alan P. Medinger
– Society has two views of homosexuality. The traditional view holds that homosexuality is an aberration, the orientation is a disorder, and the behavior is pathological. The opposing view is that homosexuality is a normal variant in the human condition, that it is determined before birth, and homosexual behavior is natural for those so oriented. This view, however, rests on a number of questionable premises which, if false, lead us back to the traditional view.
http://home.messiah.edu/~chase/h/articles/regenera/4.htm
LEGAL RECOGNITION OF HOMOSEXUAL UNIONS
Mons. Angel Rodríguez Luño
Pontifical University of the Holy Cross
“Yet it can be observed, as Aristotle said, that in addition to things which are just by nature, there are things which are just by legal convention. Given that homosexual unions are not suited to playing the social role which in the nature of things is played by the marital union between a man and a woman, one might wonder whether the State still has the leeway legitimately to create one or more forms of legal recognition of homosexual unions.”
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/RECOGHMO.HTM
Why Should US Citizens Be Required to Pay for Same-Sex Marriage Benefits?
1.There is no Federal Constitutional Right to enter into a same-sex marriages
2.US law reasonably reserves marriage and its benefits to opposite sex couples so as to promote both responsible procreation of children and the raising of those children by their biologically-related mother and father
http://www.thomasmoresociety.org/2011/0118/domafiling/
Bill, same-sex marriage is legal in Canada and the country is just fine with it. People are a lot more respectful, loving and accepting of others. There is even a thing called the Charter of Rights, which protects the freedoms of all.
Why do the personal lives of strangers, which have absolutely nothing to do with yours, matter to you? Is it because you don’t have a life?
It is truly sad when a person such as yourself, is void of love for all people. Why must you choose to be a judgmental, finger pointer?
Bill, why are you a homophobic bigot? We you molested as a child and this is how your acting out?
Same-sex marriage would be harmful to society
Social science research has now documented what societies throughout human history have learned from practical experience about the importance of marriage: children do best by far on every measure of health and welfare when they are raised by their married biological parents. No other arrangement works nearly as well. This body of scientific evidence is now so overwhelming there can be no argument about this fact.
Children are literally the future of any society. A society that fails to do everything it can to protect and support children is literally risking extinction. This is why societies have always given marriage special status and benefits. They have found out the hard way that anything that encourages men and women to have and rear children within the bounds of a married family benefits society. Anything discouraging that relationship harms society.
http://new.bangordailynews.com/2009/09/01/opinion/samesex-marriage-would-be-harmful-to-society/
Bill, not all the info you’re posting is 100% the truth. I believe that would be in accordance with ‘THE 9th COMMANDMENT’ “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour”. You should be ashamed of yourself!
There are plenty of things prohibited in the Bible that are legal. I don’t hear many Christians agitating for laws against blasphemy, falsely professing to be a virgin at marriage, or picking up sticks on the Sabbath (all punishable by death). Why do you obsess over gay marriage and want to write a constitutional amendment prohibiting it but ignore all these other things? How about an answer for that, Bill?
Countries that allow gay people to serve in the military
* 1.1 Albania
* 1.2 Argentina
* 1.3 Australia
* 1.4 Austria
* 1.5 Belgium
* 1.6 Bermuda
* 1.7 Canada
* 1.8 Republic of China
* 1.9 Colombia
* 1.10 Croatia
* 1.11 Czech Republic
* 1.12 Denmark
* 1.13 Estonia
* 1.14 Finland
* 1.15 France
* 1.16 Germany
* 1.17 Greece
* 1.18 Republic of Ireland
* 1.19 Israel
* 1.20 Italy
* 1.21 Japan
* 1.22 Lithuania
* 1.23 Luxembourg
* 1.24 Malta
* 1.25 The Netherlands
* 1.26 New Zealand
* 1.27 Norway
* 1.28 Peru
* 1.29 Philippines
* 1.30 Poland
* 1.31 Romania
* 1.32 Russia
* 1.33 Serbia
* 1.34 Slovenia
* 1.35 South Africa
* 1.36 Spain
* 1.37 Sweden
* 1.38 Switzerland
* 1.39 Thailand
* 1.40 Uruguay
* 1.41 United Kingdom
Update on AIDS Statistics
We received from Frank Joseph, M.D., the following update of statistics on homosexuality he had sent us sometime ago. He forwarded to us this interesting article with some links worth reading at the bottom.
54% of U.S. HIV Infections Caused by Homosexual Activity among Men
Alex Bush
June 18, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) – The U.S. Center for Disease Control has issued a fact sheet which says that 54% of HIV infections among males, aged 13-29, were caused by homosexual contact in 2006. This is opposed to 34% of infections caused by heterosexual contact in the same demographic.
“From 2001 through 2006, male-to-male sex was the largest HIV transmission category in the United States and the only one associated with an increasing number of HIV/AIDS diagnoses,” the fact sheet said.
The article further states that 77% of HIV positive homosexual men between the ages of 15 and 29 do not know that they are infected.
The demographic of young adult homosexual males between the ages of 13 and 29 is the only noticeably growing demographic in terms of HIV infection. The other age demographics seem reasonably stable in comparison says the CDC.
See the CDC Fact Sheet here
See related LifeSiteNews.com coverage:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B279_HomoStats.html
I like to wear women’s panties and nylons while I do my fact checking on same-sex marriage.
Gee whiz, can’t you keep that to yourself! It does explain things.
Burton,
Don’t you have some therapy you are late for? Bill really struck a nerve didn’t he? Good work Bill! I have been watching the exchange here, Bill looks like you have them on the run.Keep it up.
WhiteLighterNY,
I didn’t realize that mental patients got to use the online computer at the Manhattan Psychiatric Center. It appears your medication therapy is having a positive enough effect to allow them to remove your straight jacket.
No nerve struck. I’m just curious why someone, such as Bill who is clearly straight, would be so obsessed with homosexuality. I’ve never seen anything quite like it. I would think someone with the love of God in their heart, would focus on something of a more positive and loving nature.
Spot on Burton! This whole string of Defensive (and Offensive) Tirades by our friend Bill, neatly proves my point about the bulk of Conservative Christians: tons of biblical blah-blah 24/7 but not a micro ounce of COMPASSION, ever. They’re serving a Loving God, we keep hearing time and again and the main mantras they’re bawling on every occasion available is, GOD HATES FAGS and THE DAY OF WRATH AND FINAL RECKONING IS UPON YOU (our Bill’s specialty, this one) !!! For nearly twenty centuries folk have been fooled and intimidated with this idiotic nonsense, but not any longer my dear: free thinkers and atheists are letting their messages be heard ever so loudly. Brace yourself, Billy. Your cheap and silly games are fully missing their intended effect. Sodom & Gomorrah have (allegedly) been demolished, Pompeï, that other haven of sexual liberties has been crushed by a fine helping of your loving Lord’s fire & brimstone, and those damned PHAGS are still scurrying about, for Pete’s sake. But this time ‘round……… Lots of success, Billy Boy!!!
California Homosexual Organization Admits HIV/AIDS is “Gay Disease
”According to a report by the Los Angeles Times, the Center is trying to address rapidly increasing HIV infection rates among the homosexual population by rallying the gay community to increasing vigilance against exposure to the disease. Activists for the homosexual lifestyle have, until this current development, strongly, and sometimes vehemently refused to admit that the disease is predominantly generated among homosexual
men.http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2006/oct/06100404
Appeals court: Louisiana not forced to recognize out-of-state homosexual privileges
Liberty Counsel chairman Mathew Staver called the ruling “an incredible victory” against activists’ attempts to force legal recognition of homosexual relationships on states in a press release Wednesday. “The Full Faith and Credit Clause can no longer be used as a club to beat states into submission to the activist homosexual agenda,” he said
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/appeals-court-louisiana-not-forced-to-recognize-out-of-state-homosexual-pri
Senate sees ENDA again
Though some believe there is little chance that it will pass, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) has been reintroduced in the U.S. Senate.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1332446
‘Illicit, illegal’ use of Prop. 8 trial tapes
“I have to speak to this as a former homosexual. This is part of the pathology, the arrogance of the narcissism of homosexuality, because Judge Walker is himself a homosexual and proud to say so,” the Pro-Family Network president explains. “So this is the issue that we have here. We have the elitist arrogance of the homosexual political movement who are making…rules as they go along. This is illicit and illegal what he did
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1332470
Medical Journalist Says Reliance on Condoms Spreads HIV/AIDS- (SO HOW ABOUT THE PRACTICE OF FIDELITY OR ABSTINENCE? Aw, that would be circumventing the rights of others in spreading this plague!)
A report from the UNAIDS agency in 2003 confirmed the dangers of relying on condoms to protect against the HIV/AIDS virus. The report showed that condoms are ineffective in protecting against HIV an estimated 10% of the time. That estimate, although itself a major blow to population control activistsÂwho have consistently claimed condoms to be 100% effective, is still far lower than some studies which have shown more than a 50% failure rate.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2006/jun/06062304
Federally-Mandated ‘Bully-Proofing’ Programs Coming to a School Near You- They can make all the laws they want it WILL NOT and CAN NOT change the way THE PEOPLE respond to degenerate behavior forced upon them!
“Feel-good ideologues cling to the fantasy that government intervention through “bullying-prevention policies and programs” can create a bully-free society.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/04/federallymandated_bullyproofin.html
Why Did Gay ‘Anti-Defamation’ Group GLAAD Give Award to Hateful Homosexual Blogger who Demonizes and Mocks Christians?
GLAAD holds itself up as the arbiter of tolerance and recently announced its partnership with the Los Angeles Lakers to create “positive,” pro-homosexual messaging in the wake of Kobe Bryant’s use of an anti-homosexual slur during a game.
http://americansfortruth.com/
Cardinal asks Ricky Martin to stop pushing sodomy, sexual promiscuity on young people
“I personally admire Ricky for the great artistic gifts which the Lord has given him, but I ask that, for the love of his children, for whom I imagine he wishes the best, to try to give an example to our young people of the great values that all share, apart from sex,” the prelate said, and also clarified that the Catholic Church “does not reject the homosexual but rather the actions and conduct that are against morality”.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/cardinal-asks-ricky-martin-to-stop-pushing-sodomy-on-young-people
Tackling Homosexual Feelings: Supplication, Repentance, and Going Cold Turkey
Now it has come to a stage where he is complelty frustrated and doesnt know what to do. He is misrable and sometimes thinks of ending his life. He feels if something is not done with it soon he might get too much into homosextuality and it may make his whole life hell.
http://seekersguidance.org/ans-blog/2010/08/30/tackling-homosexual-feelings-supplication-repentance-and-going-cold-turkey/
Great is Repentance!!
AT MY REFLECTION IN A NEARBY MIRROR, I ASKED MYSELF, WILL MY EYES ONE DAY BE DARK AND EMPTY LIKE THEIRS?
http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/vc/sexe/bergner_e.htm
Through Bill, we know some people will believe anything. It’s so sad!
Repentance
By Glendol McClure
Repentance is turning away from the wrongful action with the resolve to conduct one’s life in a different way. We cannot return to the old way of life and say we have repented. We seem to understand the following situations:
The DRUNK must give up the alcohol and stop drinking.
The GAMBLER must stop placing bets and pulling handles.
The LIAR must stop lying and start telling the truth.
The DRUG ADDICT must stop taking drugs.
The HOMOSEXUAL must leave the homosexual lifestyle.
The SEXUALLY IMMORAL person must stop practicing sexual immorality.
The person who CURSES must clean up his language and begin talking without using curse words.
The person who has a BAD TEMPER must gain control of his emotions
http://www.knollwoodchurch.org/yr2007/i06_repentance.html
The Truth Sets You Free
Homosexuality, Repentance, Change and Love
A history of homosexual activity does not prevent a person from coming to Christ and being saved. Yet homosexual behaviour must not continue for the person converted to Christ. Take it from Paul: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
http://thetruthsetsyoufree.wordpress.com/homosexuality-repentance-change-and-love/
Contrary to Nature: The Identity of the People of God
Acts 11:16-18
“To chose someone of the same sex for one’s sexual activity is to annul the rich symbolism and meaning, not to mention the goals, of the Creator’s sexual design. Homosexual activity is not a complementary union, able to transmit life; and so it thwarts the call to a life of that form of self-giving which the Gospel says is the essence of Christian living. This does not mean that homosexual persons are not often generous and giving of themselves; but, when they engage in homosexual activity, they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent. As in every moral disorder, homosexual activity prevents one’s own fulfillment and happiness by acting contrary to nature and to the creative wisdom of God.”
http://www.sanctuarycollective.org/page/contrary-to-nature-the-identity-of-the-people-of-god/
“I was Born this Way”
While informed Bible students who rightly divide the word understand God’s teaching on this subject, there is a real danger for those who have not been so grounded. Gay supporters will use catch phrases such as “equality” to generate an emotional response in support of their agenda. It is important to remember not to respond to evil with evil, but with good (Romans 12:20). It is also important to not allow yourself to be taken in by such diversions. Those who would please God must stand on God’s teaching.
http://fpcc.org/?p=1982
Bill, you weren’t born the way you are now. It is only by learned behavior that you believe the way you do. Your teachers got it wrong.
The Bible is corrupt, full of contradictions, and scientific absurdities
http://www.answering-christianity.com/contra.htm
There are 31,273 verses in the Bible,
Yet all we hear about are 6 that are pulled out of context! Let’s take a look at them:
1. Genesis 1-2 (The Creation Story): The authors of Genesis were intent upon answering the question “Where do we come from?” The creation story in Genesis does not pretend to be a history of anthropology or of every social relationship. It does not mention friendship, or the single state. The creation story is not a paradigm about marriage, but rather about the establishment of the human society and most importantly that God created, and that He saw that it was good.
2. Genesis 19 (Sodom and Gomorrah): In every instance in the KJV where the term “sodomite” is used, the reference is to male prostitutes associated with places of pagan worship. The sodomites in this context are condemned not because they have sexual relationships with men but because they serve the alien gods of the Canaanite and Babylonian fertility cults. Sodomites were rich and didn’t share what they had with the poor. Sodomites had plenty and wanted more. While millions are hungry, homeless and sick, Sodomites rush to build bigger homes, buy bigger cars, and own more property–putting their trust in safer stock portfolios and more secure retirement accounts. So, by this biblical understanding of Sodomites, anyone living this kind of attitude whether gay or straight has the potential of being a Sodomite.
Some other passages that back up the reason for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah are:
Ezekiel 16:48-49
“As surely as I live, says the Sovereign Lord, Sodom and her daughters were never as wicked as you and your daughters. Sodom’s sins were pride, laziness, and gluttony, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door.”
Matthew 10:14-15
“If a village doesn’t welcome you or listen to you, shake off the dust of that place from your feet as you leave. I assure you, the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah will be better off on the judgment day than that place will be.”
Jesus connected inhospitality that the apostles came up against with the inhospitality of Sodom and Gomorrah. This was about rape. Whether it be about homosexual or heterosexual rape- it is never to be condoned.
Check out Judges 19:1-30. It’s another story like Sodom and Gomorrah but God didn’t destroy them. (Why not?)
3. Leviticus (The Holy Code):
Leviticus 18:22 (New Living Translation)
“Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.”
Leviticus 18:22 (King James Version)
“Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.”
Leviticus 20:13 (New Living Translation)
“The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have committed a detestable act and are guilty of a capital offense.”
Leviticus 20:13 (King James Version)
“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
If we read this (using the literal interpretation) it seems like the fellows are out-of luck, but lesbians can go for it! So what is really being said here? Again, we need to look at it from a historical and cultural perspective.
Actually, God is concerned with establishing a holiness code so as to keep His people pure and separated from a people who are impure. The chosen people are going into a land that does not acknowledge God, but practices impure acts according to the worship of many gods. In Leviticus, we are dealing with what God wants of his people- purity of heart.
If we are going to follow the EXACT letter of this law then we will also have to follow these as well: Lev. 1:9, Ex. 21:7, Lev. 25:44, Ex. 35:2, Lev. 11:10, Lev. 21:20, Lev. 19:19, Lev. 24:10-16, Lev. 20:14.
So we can see the importance of correct interpretation in understanding God’s Word. It is important to interpret the scriptures from a Historical-Critical perspective: a perspective that lifts people up and brings them closer to God, not farther away by condemnation.
Let’s take a look at some of the other passages: Romans 1:25-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10
4. Romans 1:25 “Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen.”
Romans 1:26-27 “That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.”
It is a dangerous thing to take passages out of context. We can see in verse 25 that the people of God were not worshiping the one true God but things that God created or idols of some kind that man made. Because of this He abandoned them (verses 26-27) and they continued to get worse. Even with the “natural” way in which they were created, they did the opposite. Anything that they participated in was sinful because they were doing these acts as part of their worshiping of other gods. This is the sin that they were committing-the breaking of the first commandment- “Thou shall have no other gods before Me.”
5. Cor. 6:9 “Don’t you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, or homosexuals…” (‘homosexual’ replaced the earlier term ‘effeminate’ found in the 1611 KJV Bible). The Greek term for this description of effeminate is
Mal-ak-os -which means a catamite. According to Webster this is a young boy kept by a pederast. This literally means lover of boys, one who practices anal intercourse especially with a boy- a Pedophile.
((Obviously, these are NOT the same)
6. 1 Tim. 1:10 “These laws are for people who are sexually immoral, for homosexuals, (1611 bible uses “male prostitute or fornicator”), someone who is being unchaste, or not in a monogamous relationship,
or the condition of one who is involved in idolatry, and slave traders, for liars and oath breakers, and for those who do anything else that contradicts the right teaching.” (Again blatant mistranslating.)
Just as there is hetero-genital sin mentioned in the scriptures there is also homo-genital sin mentioned in the scriptures. It is not a sin to be a heterosexual any more than it is a sin to be homosexual. It is a sin to have sex with someone who is married to someone else, it is a sin to have sex outside of a Holy commitment, just as it is sinful for men to have genital sex with young boys, to prostitute yourself or to be involved in homo-genital sexual acts for idol worship.
Once again, I will say “God is not the author of confusion”. SIN is SIN- and one can not serve two masters. God is unchanging, yesterday, today and tommorow.His commandments remain the same STEADFAST without any room for liberal interpretation. So if your choice is to accept lies and deception then so be it,I have presented you with God’s perspective on this sin, you are rolling the dice for YOUR soul, not MINE!
You’re so right. God is unchanging, yesterday, today and tomorrow. His commandments remain the same STEADFAST without any room for liberal interpretation. However, there are but 10 of them. I accept that historical facts, stated from my previous comment. The words “homosexual” and “homosexuality” do not appear in the Bible-at least they are absent from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. The authors of the Bible did not understand sexual orientation; this term was only developed in the late 19th century. The writers had comprehension of same-sex relationships, or sex with persons of the same gender. Thus, when you see one of these terms in an English translation of the Bible, it is accurate. The word “homosexual” first appeared in an American Bible in 1973.
You have chosen your own perception, not God’s. Your arrogance does not serve you well or God.
So be it then. Go in Love and Peace.
You too!
But, once again, my friends, my questions regarding (your INTERPRETATION of) Scriptural Texts have still not been answered. I keep hearing you contend that God is unchanging, today, yesterday, etc. how can you know? You cannot even provide a clear, logically coherent definition of “God” as a (presumably substantive) being or entity. Let alone present a description of his/her/its (objectively established) core characteristics. Your only referential source for any knowledge about “god” is your bible, a book chock full of totally absurd contradictions. It is really a full mystery to me that anyone in their sane mind (and living in the 21st century) can ever maintain the notion of your bible’s trustworthiness. For instance, in the so-called Old Testament we encounter a “god” whose main objective seems to be controlling the Jewish People’s compliance with his rules, regulations and special wishes. (Nicely count in circumcision as well as a whole bunch of dietary laws; all of them dismissed “Post penticostically”). And, let’s not forget the shamelessly vindictive and hopelessly jealous “god”, as portrayed in Genesis, notably; i.e. your garden variety Middle-Eastern dictator. (A la Khadaffi, Assad, Ben-Ali and all the other jokers making headlines these days all over the globe). Then, in the New T. god neatly changes into an adorable wise old granddaddy. But who, of course, would still demand his “blood sacrifice” at Calvary.
And, oh yes, I almost forgot, “all of a sudden”, at the end of the sixth century AD, “god” sends out his messenger, Archangel Gabriel to inform Mr Muhammad of his unique position vis à vis the Lord Allah (Jahweh’s twin-brother, the evolved Jahweh himself??): M may, as of now, consider himself to be “gods” most revered “prophet”…….
Yes guys, it’s a miracle in itself: we build highly sophisticated space-ships, we store incredibly powerful nuclear weapons, cure diseases considered to be totally incurable only about six to seven decades ago, but we ( at least millions of us) still believe all that MYTHICAL CRAP included in your so-called Holy Scriptures. Yes really, really unbelievable. So now we can – perhaps – safely say that it’s not god who’s to be considered unchanged and unchangeable, but you stubborn, stiff-necked Conservative Christians, Muslims and what have you. Amen…….
IT DOESN’T DIVIDE REPUBLICAN, JUST THE GOP OR THE ONLY ONE YOU REFER TO DICK C. AND I REALLY DON’T THINK ONE MAN DIVIDES THE WHOLE PARTY. HE’S ALOUD TO BE WRONG SOMETIME
The state should never get involved in personal matters like marriage and religion etc, unless others are getting hurt. It’s like making doggie style illegal lol
Things like this are personal and between one and God, not the big broher that wants to be a god. We want to be free right?
NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MARRIAGE PRAISES MOTION TO VACATE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE RULING
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=omL2KeN0LzH&b=5075187&ct=9362861¬oc=1
‘Gay’ ex-NJ governor’s path to priesthood blocked
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1336568
Battle heats up over lesbian activist judge Barbara Lenk nominated for Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11b/lenk_nomination/battle_heats_up.html
‘Outed’ cadet ineligible to servehttp://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1341002
Where teachers shouldn’t tread
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1340932
Beautiful example of (VERY DANGEROUS) CHRISTIAN STUPIDITY in America today. Read this and be shocked. But,of course, I’m not surprised
http://www.thegaymanifesto.com/2011/01/11/christians-scapegoat-gay-and-lesbian-equality-for-bird-deaths/
Families worry over lesbian activist on high court
Vote soon on Lenk’s nomination to Massachusetts bench
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=294805
Blame ‘gays’ for anorexic models Too funny, but true!
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104165&EmbedC=7a7caf80-a826-4f2b-b53c-71b295c27e0d
National Organization For Marriage Launches “We’re There Until You Need Us” Information Campaign Aimed at Law Firm Who Abandoned US House Defense of Marriage Lawsuit
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=omL2KeN0LzH&b=5075187&ct=9380103¬oc=1
Wow!!! Great, great, great VICTORY for Gays in Brazil. Read this,
Brazil’s Supreme Court has voted OVERWHELMINGLY in favour of allowing same-sex couples the same legal rights as married heterosexuals.
The decision was approved by 10-0 with one abstention!!!!!!
I’M OVERJOYED and (somewhat) more optimistic about the future forLGBT’s here in our own hardheaded country. Well, my Love and I will let those champagne corks fly tonight.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13304442
When Christians get involved in politics…. PRAISE GOD ALMIGHTY !!!
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1342300
Yes, and that’s why I’m so glad for the Brazilians that their judicial decision making isn’t contaminated by all kinds of bigoted religious reasoning, as with us her in de US. Very good for them. I’m so envious of these guys. Really.
Sorry, should of course be, here in the US.
Very touching story. These guys are worth their weight in gold. This is genuine “spirituality”, not the hate-filled, so-called born again hypocrisy we see exhibited all over this country, day by sorry day.
Gay Arizona dads adopt 12 children
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/05/06/gay-arizona-dads-adopt-12-children/
Frederick – nice story. Takes a lot of courage to adopt children and 12 is unbelievable – reminds me of the DeBolt family.
The Duggars(Jim Bob and Michelle) have them beat with 19 of their own natural children!
Bill – I’m not sure if it’s all that remarkable to birth all those children but I do feel it’s remarkable to take in 14 handicapped children – that people generally “don’t want” and make them your own.
Sears admits they were wrong; finally pulls website materials
AFA told the truth, despite Sears telling customers otherwise
http://www.afa.net/sears/index.html
Lawmaker’s ‘Gay is Holy’ Argument Goes Viral- YAHOO! Minnesota (VOTERS) to Decide on Marriage Amendment in 2012 !!******
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2011/May/Lawmakers-Gay-is-Holy-Argument-Goes-Viral-/
NOM-Rhode Island Critiques New Civil Union Legislation in Rhode Island
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=omL2KeN0LzH&b=5075187&ct=9386405¬oc=1
Yeah this is RI, and now I’m reminded of Brazil’s Supreme Court ruling a couple of weeks ago: full legal recognition of committed same-sex couples. Yeah, so this is America in the 21st century; a full disgrace, in other words.
National Organization for Marriage Launches $500,000 Ad Campaign in New York; Pledges $1 Million in 2012 Elections
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=omL2KeN0LzH&b=5075187&ct=9458165¬oc=1
“In Maryland and Rhode Island we just won great victories for marriage. Our opponents tried to claim that same-sex marriage was inevitable in both of those states. They were wrong,” said Brian Brown, NOM’s president. “Once our message got out and legislators heard from their constituents, same-sex marriage was stopped dead in its tracks. We expect the same to happen in New York.”
NOM has defeated every pro-gay marriage Republican we’ve ever targeted, and we’re quite confident we will do so in New York, should that become necessary.”
Retired general warns of ‘rush’ to end ‘don’t ask’
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/9/retired-general-warns-of-rush-to-end-dont-ask/
Catholic group shuts down adoption services
As a result, the city’s Catholic Charities has closed its adoption services and is no longer placing children with any family.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1343950
Protecting marriage in Pennsylvania
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1344118
Sex change of minor = ‘criminal abuse’
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1344680
Holder puts hold on deportation of ‘gay’ man
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1344122
Navy halts move to allow ‘gay’ unions by chaplains
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1345018
Hey Bill, what do you think about this site:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qre8bfz4drA&feature=related
Straightforward eh? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Samurai!!
Greetings my Brother! May Our Father Bless You!! Thfirstrt site was exceptional! It touched on all areas that I believe in and focus upon when revealing the truth regarding sin to the homosexual, including the most important reason that of the forgiveness of sin,loving the sinner but hating the sin!
In His Love
Bill
How about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D529HBoHW1c&feature=related
I see a negative response comming from the libs on this site. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Samurai,
The second site is a bit controversial, but I look at it this way better some controversy than a one way ticket to Hell for eternity!Keep up the good work my brother.
In His Love
Bill
ah, Samou’s here again. Welcome back. my brother. So the battle goes on, as nicely as ever before? Too exciting to give up, huh? Well ok, I’ve got another very interesting site for you to feast your eyes on. It’s all about? Yeah, yeah, almost got it, here it comes,
It’s about, How to Fight the Religious Right
(A guide to defending yourself against Fundamentalist Christians)!!!
http://www.elroy.net/ehr/fighttheright.html#homosexuality
Oh, and, um, Samou, my man, don’t forget to study the points indicated throughout the column on the left of this gorgeous site. You’ll be treated to musings about a whole set of your all-time favorites, such as
Homosexuality as a (so-called) sin
Abortion as a “sin”
Porn as a “sin”.
Well ok, you name it. It’s all in there.
Happy reading Mr Samou. I’m sure you’ll love it and consider yourself a very lucky man as of now. And, I know you’re going to thank me profusely, So, see ya.
Frederick!
what were you thinking when you recommended this site? I haven’t laughed so hard in so long that I needed to stop 3/4 the way through it. Any “Fundie” can easily see through this feeble attempt to try and arm the secular individual to combat the Christian witness. There are so many holes in this approach – I am surprised it is taken seriously! Actually, what it does do for the Christian is provoke a greater passion when they are ridiculed, rebuffed,belittled etc. We are stronger in our convictions, knowing that “By His Stripes We are Healed”.
It is impossible to defeat an enemy that grows in conviction, courage, and numbers when persecuted in the Lord. So, have at it my Brother! I will be praying for you.
Frederick, you may be surprised by this, but I did take the time to look at your site. I will say that there is so much nonsense in it that I had to rush through the last half of it. It was so full of holes that it looked like a pop up target after a day on the range. So many lies that I couldn’t possibly rebut them all, as it would take up too much space on this site.
“Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God?” Thomas Jefferson.
Sorry, but I cannot accept this unnatural lifestyle as anything but a perversion of what God has created. Disagree as much as you want, but I’m not changing my mind. Bill, sorry about the second one being controvertial. I’ll try better next time. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Samurai,
There is no need to apologize for the contents of the website. The truth is what it is, this is not an issue that needs to be sugarcoated.
Obama banking on homosexuals’ money
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1344740
Forecast: PC(USA) will ‘suffer’
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1345124
Gold medalist resigns, thanks to pro-’gay’ criticism
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1344772
Hey Frederick, let’s see how smart you are. I’ve actually been on this site since the first day it came out, but under a different name. Let’s see if you’re smart enough to find out. That’s all I’ve got time for now. My wife’s calling me. I’ll try to post something else tomorrow. Bill, you’re right. This is a serious issue and I stand tall next to you in this good fight. I’ll be back tomorrow with some new ammunition for this fight. Sorry, did 20 years with the infantry. God bless you, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Tennesee Bill Model for U.S.Congress And Nation -”Don’t Say Gay”
http://publicadvocateusa.org/news/article.php?article=6777
VIDEO: Pro-Homosexuals at Brown University Respond to Peaceful TFP Rally with Violence
http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/what-we-do/street-campaigns/video-pro-homosexuals-at-brown-university-respond-to-peaceful-tfp-rally-with-violence.html?utm_source=sm&utm_medium=email&utm_content=SAE0055_Split1&utm_campaign=MainNewsletter
THEOLOGY PROFESSOR, my foot. Or did you merely nickname yourself with this title? Your vapid comments are too boring for reasoned response.
Being a historian, Samu, you are, or you should, at least, be familiar with the academic rule of (the mandatory) falsification of hypotheses and conjectures. If, for example we say that planet earth is as flat as a pancake, as some folk used to do before the launch of space ships, we have the obligation to prove our point as clearly and unequivocally as possible. Now, as far as the “treatment” of homosexuality (or any “moral” question conceivable) in you’re your conservative community is concerned, there are a few fundamental problems at issue which have yet to be addressed satisfactorily and exhaustively. First of all we have this illustrious point (presented in the article I just uploaded) regarding the phenomenon of (massive) “selective judgment”, meaning, that for instance, adultery and “homosexuality” are put on a par as grave sins, but at closer inspection adultery appears to be a far more complex and moot issue than is commonly presumed. Thus, a veritable (verbal) “war” has been waged over the biblical passage where Jesus contends that someone lusting after a woman (from a distance, quite obviously) has already committed adultery with her. (Matthew 5:27–28). Some interpreters maintain that it’s not “lust” per se, but “covetousness” that’s meant to be the core issue here. I had to laugh when I first encountered this cunning viewpoint. What a joke. What precisely is the difference, for Chrissakes (no pun intended)? Some street workers whistling after a beautiful girl during lunch hour will probably act out their macho game merely to stay in line with the social code concerned, but others (married and all) may very well fantasize extensively about the splendors of having that poor girl’s body ready for “consumption”. Fine candidates for your eternal Hellfire, I suppose??? Well, now you must have an inkling about my main point: it’s all so totally absurd and laughable, a lot (or even most) of what’s included in that bible of yours, that I presently even ask myself why I do bother at all.
So, finally there’s that other core issue, I just can stop bringing up here: the authority of the bible in general. God’s word? Give me a break, please. As I’ve said so often before, we have no objective information concerning God’s existence as such, at all. Absolutely Nothing substantial. Let alone, any, really any certainty about the (Supposed) Transcendent Origins of that book. It’s all myth, speculation, wishful thinking, plagiarism and fraud, as far as I’ve been able to discern. Out with it all. Good luck with your feelings about homosexuals, they probably suit you very well. I’ll just stick with my idea about your bible: a big bunch of baloney, not worth the effort of bothering for even a single second. As far as I’m concerned Christianity has absolutely nothing special to offer the world anymore. We’ve heard everything about the “good news” by now; keep your empty promises to yourselves and leave us alone. At least science is delivering truthfully: look how strongly the world has changed within the past century. No need for your hollow religious rhetoric anymore. Enough is just enough. Voila: For the advancement of SCIENCE and Prosperity for every single person on our PLANET.
Samurai,
Please do not bother replying to him, there are countless examples here in this forum of being supplied with the truth,and his same atheistic response. speaking of which, his being an Atheist means that he believes that “Nothing created Everything”. Now that is a trick I would LOVE for him to explain! I await the answer, but so far nothing but dead silence. One can only hope.
See what Home Depot donated in support of – then Sign the Pledge
http://www.afa.net/Detail.aspx?id=2147506207
Now answer this one Professor Bill: How do you EXPLAIN (really Explain) the existence of God him or herself? How do you account for the fact that at a certain point (practically all of a sudden) your “God” decided to get to work and push the universe out of his/its hat? And then we’ve not even addressed the question HOW he/it, him or herself could have ever created SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING!!! No Bill, you’ll have to do better than that. Have you ever considered the possibility that MATTER contained within a SINGULARITY has ALWAYS EXISTED, did not need anyone to turn itself into a whole constellation of observable forms? Of course, nobody has been there (least of all your bible writers) when it all started to churn and burst open into what we now call the universe, featuring time, space and matter??? Oh, and then I even forgot to mention the fact that physicists have now even presented the strong plausibility of the existence of an INFINITE NUMBER OF UNIVERSES. (Where in your bible anything in this direction is even hinted at?). Oh yes,I gather each one of them’ll have their very own deity??? Don’t you think???
Ah Bill and Samu I’m now reading an excellent book , well a collection of essays, in fact, by the title of 50 VOICES OF DISBELIEF, subtitled, WHY WE ARE ATHEISTS. I urge you to read it and educate yourselves. You’ll find many answers to the question concerning the (IM)PLAUSIBILITY of a God having created the universe and all that is therein. Unputdownable for me!!!
Frederick,
I too would be an atheist if it weren’t for the omnipotence of God. There was a time in my life where I was angry and demanded explanations,concrete evidence of why all this mattered, and for what purpose we are put here! God knew ahead of my birth that I would question Him in doubt (As any rationale being should) about my life and why He allowed things to happen. Through His love and patience with me, He gradually won my trust. Winning my trust is an IMPOSSIBLE thing to do, well in my past anyway.
I know exactly where you are coming from Frederick,that is why I can understand your reluctance to truly venture beyond your comfort zone;however I know what lies beyond taking that step of faith.There is a far greater life than you can ever imagine, but you will neveexperiencece it unless you casuppressss what yoperceiveve to be your truth, which provides your protection that keeps you from reaching out to God!
BOY!
Spellchecker not doing its job tonight. This is suppose to say.
I know exactly where you are coming from Frederick,that is why I can understand your reluctance to truly venture beyond your comfort zone;however I know what lies beyond taking that step of faith.There is a far greater life than you can ever imagine, but you will never experience it unless you can suppress what you perceive to be your truth, which provides your protection that keeps you from reaching out to God!
Frederick,
The definitive answer for God was given by Him when HE replied to Moses, when Moses asked “who do I say sent me?”. God replied tell them “I AM” That is the definition of God,it is impossible to limit the undefinable to human terms, or put another way we can’t comprehend the INFINITE with a FINITE mind.
As for science and the universe, they are just beginning to grasp how little they truly know of God and His Creations. Just recently,I saw an update on the complexity of universe,there are countless galaxies that are just now being discovered. So just when mankind begins to puff his chest believing that he has taken one step up to God, He changes the playing field! Regarding your question about where in the Bible it mentions the “INFINITE NUMBER OF UNIVERSES” Gotcha covered there too, God is the creator of all things SEEN and UNSEEN, Nothing comes into existence WITHOUT HIM!!
Lastly,there is only ONE GOD, any thought contrary to that is a device of the enemy, he is the father of lies, deceit, and destruction. who better to benefit from the confusion of there being muldeitiesieties? Or who better to keep the truth about how much God loves us all and wants us as His children in His family? I will keep praying for you Frederick,hopefully one day you will accept God’s invitation. In His Love, Bill
Oops!
That is suppose to say ” multiple deities “
God bless you, Bill and Samurai.
Thank you very much Marilyn. I guess you can say from 21 – 38 years old, I was an atheist. I was a soldier, killed many people, had very bad language, and no one would want their kids around me. I didn’t attend church, though I married a Christian woman, but our marriage remained strong. In 2004, after returning from Iraq with a silver star, bronze star, and 2 purple hearts, my wife finally convinced me to come to church with her. I haven’t stopped since. To see my wife’s face light up and have tears in her eyes by me going was all that God needed to show me to continue going. The Lord moves in mysterious ways, this was one of them. I’ll keep fighting the good fight for this country and for what is right in the eyes of God. Frederick, and his ilk, will never stop me in this mission. I was given the name Samurai by LTC Constanguay at Fort Carson, Colorado, for how I would fight to the end during war games. I still continue to do this till this day. Let’s keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! GOD BLESS AMERICA AND YOU ALL!
Small-scale victory in a larger battlehttp://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1346086
Committee pacing president
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1346388
National Organization for Marriage Joins Rally in the Bronx to Defend Marriage
http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=omL2KeN0LzH&b=5075187&ct=10036931¬oc=1
HOMOSEXUALS RAISE MONEY USING CHILDREN TO HURL OBSCENE CURSES AT TENNESSEE LEGISLATORS
http://publicadvocateusa.org/news/article.php?article=6785
Breaking News: Gov. Cuomo says SSM May Not Have the Votes in NY!
http://www.nomblog.com/8428/
AG Eric Holder Refuses to Enforce Federal Immigration Rules on Marriage, Invites NJ to Redefine “Spouse”
http://www.nomblog.com/8300/
Homosexuality invades another mainline denomination (My Bags were packed long ago as I shook the dust from my feet!)
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1346586
Fine Victory for the GAY LIBERATION CAUSE,
Apple Dumps ‘Gay Cure’ iPhone App After 150,000 People Sign Petition Calling For Its Removal
http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2011/03/15518/
Otherwise Apple would have to be sued, period!!!
The publics loss and any troubled youth searching for answers to their sexuality. Actually the app did nothing to criticize homosexuals if a person was in that lifestyle. It did offer solutions that would assist in getting help with homosexuality ;however we know how sensitive the homosexual community is to any type of change back to heterosexuality. There are still plenty of other options out there for help with this abnormality.
This nonsense about (the possibility) of a (so-called) change back to heterosexuality MUST be stopped IMMEDIATELY. Apple’s app onhly reinforces the fundamentalist ostriches’ IDIOTIC EFFORTS TO TRY AND MISLEAD OUR GAY YOUTH. WE gay adults should and in fact will do everything possible and legal to get you FUNDY CHRISTIANS off our backs, and off for good. Rest assured!!!
Let’s see, less than 1% of this nation are queer and 75% have said they were Christians. If I played the numbers game, you would be losing big time right about now. Christianity is misleading gay youth? Care to cite some sources that would back up that obvious lie? We do have a victory as the navy has overturned the act of having to perform gay marriages on naval bases. Another victory in the name of God and a loss for you god Satan. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Frederick,
You,homosexual adults, do what you have to do, but as long as there is evidence to the contrary proving that reversal to heterosexuality is possible,we Fundies, heteros, etc. will persist in our efforts to assist those seeking relief from this pathological lifestyle. This includes the prolific effort to patronize all available resources,including personal testimonies, from EXODUS, PFOX and all avenues that we deem beneficial.
Ha ha, evidence? What “evidence”? You mean ANECDOTES, mostly from fundy sources featuring some short-term monitoring of so-called conversions? Don’t make me laugh. No, what I want to see are the results of solid, independent, long-term academic research. Not some hysterical, pathetic tales from fundy idiots trying to convince us a homosexual here or there had really given their heart to Jesus and left (what you call) the gay lifestyle. No sirree, you’ll have to do much better than that. I’m not buying your tendentious crap here. Now, read this, for starters, it’s taken from the following website
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_changing.html
“In response to recent public debates about interventions intended to change individuals’ sexual orientation, the American Psychological Association created a Task Force on Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation which reviewed the relevant research literature.
In 2009, the Task Force reported that it found “serious methodological problems in this area of research, such that only a few studies met the minimal standards for evaluating whether psychological treatments, such as efforts to change sexual orientation, are effective” (p. 2).
Based on its review of the studies that met these standards, the Task Force concluded that “[E]nduring change to an individual’s sexual orientation is uncommon. The participants in this body of research continued to experience same-sex attractions following SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] and did not report significant change to other-sex attractions that could be empirically validated, though some showed lessened physiological arousal to all sexual stimuli. Compelling evidence of decreased same-sex sexual behavior and of engagement in sexual behavior with the other sex was rare. Few studies provided strong evidence that any changes produced in laboratory conditions translated to daily life. Thus, the results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE” (pp. 2-3).
In addition, the Task Force found evidence to indicate that some individuals experienced harm or believed they had been harmed by these interventions.
In response to recent public debates about interventions intended to change individuals’ sexual orientation, the American Psychological Association created a Task Force on Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation which reviewed the relevant research literature.
In 2009, the Task Force reported that it found “serious methodological problems in this area of research, such that only a few studies met the minimal standards for evaluating whether psychological treatments, such as efforts to change sexual orientation, are effective” (p. 2).
Based on its review of the studies that met these standards, the Task Force concluded that “[E]nduring change to an individual’s sexual orientation is uncommon. The participants in this body of research continued to experience same-sex attractions following SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] and did not report significant change to other-sex attractions that could be empirically validated, though some showed lessened physiological arousal to all sexual stimuli. Compelling evidence of decreased same-sex sexual behavior and of engagement in sexual behavior with the other sex was rare. Few studies provided strong evidence that any changes produced in laboratory conditions translated to daily life. Thus, the results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE” (pp. 2-3).
In addition, the Task Force found evidence to indicate that some individuals EXPERIENCED HARM or believed they had been harmed by these interventions”.
End of quote.
So you see your crazy efforts to change people’s sexual orientation because of what that Fool Paul says in your bible, may be highly detrimental to your victims’ mental health. I think it’s high time for the Public Health Authorities to do some serious investigation into the matter concerned.
And you seriously expect me ,or anybody looking for truth, to accept the credibility of the APA? That ship sailed when they let themselves be intimidated by the homosexual rabble to change this disease into an acceptable practice. You will have to do a lot better than that, in the mean time we will continue to convert victims.
Yes, they stopped classifying it as a mental distorder (APA) in 1973. A mental disorder is when someones cays or pretends to be something, but they aren’t. I should rimind Frederick about what happens when his ilk get to be too much of the population and they take over, like Genesis 13:13. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Tried to post a long and beautiful rebuttal, but I’m afraid the MODERATORS weren’t terribly appreciative. Sorry.
perhaps you did multiple links – that can throw comments automatically into a moderation mode sort of limbo on many sites
Well I’ll take the short road. Many experts, not only those affiliated with the APA, harbor the opinion that what (e.g.) EXODUS is doing is to be considered totally unethical and (in many cases) definitely harmful. See, for instance this website
http://michael-in-norfolk.blogspot.com/2011/03/misquoted-scientist-calls-on-apple-to.html
A McDonald’s worker has taken credit for filming and uploading to YouTube the latest viral video to capture a brutal assault at a fast food restaurant.
……as seen above, in a Facebook posting, Hackett has contended that the woman seen getting beaten in the video was actually a male cross-dresser who got into a confrontation with female patrons when he refused to leave the women’s bathroom at the Baltimore eatery.
Hackett claimed that the victim faked a seizure and, when cops arrived at the restaurant, “he got right up.”
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/mcdonalds/mcdonalds-employee-filmed-brutal-beating-640128?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Catholic appeal won’t be heard ( A good example of why we should no longer have trust in our Judicial System to resolve social issues!! What a circus our court systems are.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1346300
Richard Dawkins accused of cowardice for refusing to debate existence of God
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8511931/Richard-Dawkins-accused-of-cowardice-for-refusing-to-debate-existence-of-God.html
Frederick,
Another revealation of His mystery of being God!
Biologists Announce Discovery of an Entirely New Branch of Life
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/05/13/biologists-announce-discovery-entirely-new-branch-life/
Read here about the grave dangers of so-called reparative therapy for Gays. I’m now considering writing a couple of Congress(wo)men to alert them to this insanity.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-13417.html/
Go to Texas to divorce…without being married
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1346626
Ah, at last. About time,
Wealthy Republican Donors Support Same-Sex Marriage in New York
http://www.care2.com/causes/civil-rights/blog/wealthy-republican-donors-support-same-sex-marriage/
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/14/nyregion/donors-to-gop-are-backing-gay-marriage-push.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1305378711-jhoWP+VR+EtJCFQqz01aiQ
Don’t pop those champagne corks just yet.Cuomo knows he doesn’t have the votes to pass it. New Yorkers are not allowing this travesty to marriage to happen – we are not as gullible as other misguided states and their corrupt governments are!
It seems Frederick fits that description. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Can We Please Just Start Admitting That We Do Actually Want To Indoctrinate Kids?
http://www.queerty.com/can-we-please-just-start-admitting-that-we-do-actually-want-to-indoctrinate-kids-20110512/
Officials to blame for bullying
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1346800
Ha, indoctrination? Look what the Fundies are pumping into our poor schoolchildren’s heads, with their lame creationist fairy tales and lies.
Please, also pay attention to reader’s’ comments on this site
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/creeping-creationism-in-chicagoland/
The problem is that a certain sect of society wants to spread this garbage of evolution as being the only explanation to mankind’s existence. when we know that science has PROVED that Creationism is a viable evidence for explaining man’s existence,but the secular perspective has just one hang up- GOD!
Truth is when comparison is made Creationism is a more definitive explanation of LIFE, there are no missing links to explain. Life began in the divine breath of God,it’s destiny began and completes itself in the divine thought of God. There are too many holes in the scientific theories,realities to even begin to give birth to the concept of life itself. Any school childreunencumbereded by adulpersuasionon would easily see creationism in it’s simplistic manner provides the keys to the Kingdom of Life explaining the complexity of all God’s creation. Oops, there’s that “G” word again- that is where the secular mind self-destructs itself, and denies itselaccessss to the Divine Truth.
Last part should read:
Any school children unencumbered by adult persuasion would easily see creationism in it’s simplistic manner provides the keys to the Kingdom of Life explaining the complexity of all God’s creation. Oops, there’s that “G” word again- that is where the secular mind self-destructs itself, and denies itself access to the Divine Truth.
Olympic Gold Medalist Peter Vidmar Should Not Have Resigned under ‘Gay’ Pressure: LaBarbera
http://americansfortruth.com/news/olympic-gold-medalist-peter-vidmar-should-not-have-resigned-under-gay-pressure-labarbera.html
What honoring Milk entails ( Just another piece of DUST that wasted his gift of life on an IMMORAL lifestyle) It would be interesting to know what his opinion is now to the pathological choice he made while alive!
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1348032
Edmond Lutheran church changing denominations (Another example of common sense being spiritually executed)
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1348620
Inauguration Prayer Challenge Turned Away by U.S. Supreme Court
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-16/inauguration-prayer-challenge-turned-away-by-u-s-supreme-court.html
PA To Tennessee: “Pass BILL 49 And Prohibit Obscene Advocacy To Children”
http://publicadvocateusa.org/news/article.php?article=6797
You really should catch up on your reading and spend a couple of hours on some instructive literature. There appears to be really overwhelmingly abundant evidence for the validity of the Science of Evolution. Read Professor Jerry A. Coyne’s brilliant book on the matter by the title of WHY EVOLUTION IS TRUE and be properly educated, for a change. And, oh yes, enjoy this delightful little book, “ Unintelligent Design” by Robyn Williams, subtitled “Why God Isn’t as Smart as She Thinks She Is” …..
Sorry, but is that the best you have? I will stick to my archaic, outdated, system of beliefs rather than put my trust in the arm of flesh. Anyone with common sense can weigh the evidence of random creation vs intelligent design and see the indisputable truth- well almost anyone…
Modern love
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1348726
This is a good thing Bill. We alraedy have the right to pray, read our Bibles, and do other Christian things in our schools by the Northwest Ordinance of April 7, 1789. “Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the meams of education shall be forever encouraged.” Written and signed by George Washington. I also believe in what Samueal Chase, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court said in 1803, “Religion is of general public concern and on its proper support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people. By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty.” This would mean school prayer, yes. No gay, bi, or other abnormal lifestyles, and no arresting Christian for praying at gay rallies. We will forever be a Christian nation. Glod Bless America and thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Sook Young,
Thank you for sharing the quotes. They reveal just how far we have deteriorated as a nation, we have allowed the stench of liberalism to fill the land. we have become so accustom to it that we no longer recognize the sweet aroma of freedom we once breathed. America has forsaken values for tolerance and inclusiveness,incivility .
This country has entered a phase where God is going to bring us to our knees, He is going to punish this nation for its apostasy,He will place this once great nation in bondage.
Our government has been rendered impotent, we can no longer agree on issues that run this country,lost our ability to balance a budget,corruption runs rampant from the top to bottom of our politicians. Our military will be chastised for the decision to allow open homosexuality. Our educational system is a joke,students suffer from the pathetic quality of education they receive, while the system remains riddled with incompetent educators that siphon their pay off the taxpayers.
Our financial system is littered with a cancer of greed that feeds the ego of corporate crooks – that inevitably leaves the taxpayers holding the bag for some new bailout. Our religion- excuse me while I laugh- serves the purpose of filling the pews and the collection plates. It has lost its love for the Head of the Church, no longer can see itself as the Bride of Christ- must be difficult to see ANYTHING when you climb in bed with the world!
Yes, your quotes seem so distant,but they are what we must fight for with our dying breath. So, Sook Young, thank you and Samurai, for your courage and faithfulness in defending our values.
In His Love,
Bill
Thank you Bill. It’s hard trying to fight against the enemies of our nation and of God. There seems to be so many of them out there. I’ve found a site with the first prayer said in the Continental Congress on September 7, 1774. I hope you enjoy it.
http://www.keepgodinamerica.com/firstprayer.asp
Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Sook Young,
Thanks for the prayer it was spiritually invigorating. It reflects an intimacy with God that I fear we Christians have lost. Please do not become fatigued in your efforts, we must remember that the battle is not ours ,but God’s. We know that we have already won this battle because God has foretold us of the outcome.
Our enemies serve a defeated god, he knows that his time is short and he will take as many with him into the eternal pit of Hell as he can. So do not become disheartened by the wickedness that has gripped the human heart- REJOICE because we know this must occur to fulfill God’s Prophecy!! AND WE HAVE A FRONT ROW SEAT…
Video: Massive Bronx Rally Featuring Brian Brown, Rev. Diaz and Supporters Like You!
http://www.nomblog.com/8782/
Once again, for the umpteenth time: Gay marriage (and/ or civil unions)have been sanctioned in numerous, numerous countries. Have societies in those countries fallen apart? Do heterosexuals stop marrying up or down there? No, quite the contrary: these so-called liberal societies are the most prosperous an peace celebrating around the globe (Denmark, the Netherlands, Brazil; you name ‘em). And look at the countries fiercely opposed to (directly visible) homosexuality, such as Uganda, Iran and so many Eastern European countries: it’s all unsurpassed corruption, totally shameless nepotism, constant violence against women and other minorities, etc. To me, Bill it’s nothing but hysterical small-mindedness and clinging to “values” dictated by a book (your bible), full of lies, logical absurdities and mindless violence itself. You only keep bawling and barking because you know that you’re really, albeit very gradually, losing this crazy, farcical, Yankee-doodle battle. The gays are here to stay and sooner or later everyone of them who wants to marry will be able to do so, in spite of all your senseless whining and whimpering.
Is that all I can do, you asked. Well, I take the liberty to ask, have you actually READ any of these (or similar) books, espwcially the book by professor Coyne, on the merits of evolution in comparison to (so-called) intelligent design? I’ll bet my entire salary that you haven’t. But, of course, you’re very quick to judge and condemn. You see, this is one of the things I hate so much about FUNDAMENTALISM (whether of Christian, Muslim, Hebrew or whatever origin): the harsh, fanatic, fiery inclination to condemn, thrash and trample down EVERYTHING that’s not in accordance with its grossly “fetished” pack of medieval values. You Conservative Christian worry your heads off and keep whimpering about the alleged moral decline in America, but look the other way when confronted with the incredible poverty still observable in this very wealthy country (in 2011 for Chrissakes). Not to mention the deplorable state of folk begging for work (not pennies, but work) to able to feed their starving offspring. Let them settle their own affairs and stay out of our precious country, is what I’m hearing time and again. Because that’s what really counts at the end of the day: GOD AND COUNTRY. As if we were still living in the 1940’s. Animal species are going extinct day by miserable day (among which even the bees, indispensable for our daily bread). Do you conservatives care? Yeah, I bet you do…….
Tropical rainforests are disappearing at an alarming rate, causing horrifying floods as well as killer droughts, precisely within the poorest regions around the globe. Who in America cares? The Christian conservatives?? Yeah, you bet……
No, Bill, it’s not homosexuality that’s going to bring your highly coveted Apocalypse to our doorstep, no, it’s “our” carelessness (“why should I go green, it’s all a liberal conspiracy anyway!!!!!), “our” cynicism and hypocrisy that are now turning this country (or have already turned it) into a veritable “Sodom”. If you didn’t already know, “Sodom” had everything to do with abuse of aliens (“let those illegal aliens sweat for peanuts or kick ‘em out”: it’s happening right here and now) and brutal violence and intimidation (kill ‘em all, those brown-faced Muslimi bastards, they’re all guilty [literally the words of an Iraq veteran].
So Bill, Sook-Young, I’m very proud to be GAY and a fighter for PEACE AND PROSPERITY AROUND THE GLOBE.
Study: Homosexuality, celibacy didn’t cause abuse
http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/9000/41510384/Study_Homosexuality_celibacy_didnt_cause_abuse
Divorces decline but cohabitation rises
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1349454
‘Candy cane’ case: Free speech on chopping block
Let’s give God THANKS and the GLORY that we have such Brothers and Sisters in the faith that are willing to fight for our religious freedoms!!
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1349624
Baptist Responds to Don Lemon’s ‘Born Gay’ Remarks
http://www.christianpost.com/news/baptist-responds-to-don-lemons-born-gay-remarks-50295/
Girl Scouts, No Longer a Family Friendly Organization for 2 Sisters
http://www.christianpost.com/news/girl-scouts-no-longer-a-family-friendly-organization-for-2-sisters-50284/
Lawsuit filed over Obama strategy to abandon marriage
Details sought on influences that produced White House decision
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=300097
MassResistance helping in battles around the country this week in Rhode Island & New York. Also Minnesota, Illinois, California
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11b/current_0518.html
Sorry for you Bill, but there is still hope for the gay marrying kind. Look at this,
http://www.observer.com/2011/opinion/marriage-equality-now
Yes, justice WILL PREVAIL. The Fundamentalist Idiocy WILL BE DEFEATED, if not now then soon. Rest assured. We’re in a mighty forceful fighting mood
“We’re in a mighty forceful fighting mood”. Yea, so WAS Goliath!
Another beautiful one for you Bill
When (BRITISH) civil (GAY) partnerships passed into law in 2004, the military immediately recognized the rights of same-sex civil partners in military service to the same allowances and benefits as their married colleagues. In 2006, Royal Navy personnel marched in the London Pride Parade, and in 2009, the front cover of Soldier, the British Army’s monthly magazine, featured an openly gay soldier for the first time.
The example of the U.K. military sheds light on what the United States can achieve now that “don’t ask, don’t tell” has been repealed and lends queer cadets at the academies hope for a more equal future
So, this is what I’m praying for now and Oh, praying like mad…..
See http://www.qmagazineatyale.com/uncategorized/across-the-pond-and-into-the-future/
Frederick,
Once again your wishful thinking and your vacant gaze focus upon foreign shores when referring to the homosexual agenda. I guess a reminder is in order for you that AMERICA is not the rest of the world. We DO NOT take our moral cues from the rest of the world, we DIRECT the world.
Regardless, of how much a “mighty forceful fighting mood ” you may think that you are,God’s Will and the will of the people will ALWAYS prevail. Idle speculation on my part? No,just unyielding faith in God to deal with sin as He always HAS,DOES, and WILL DO. Nothing will satisfy me more than to watch the homosexual pathology dissolve when confronted by the presence of the Living God’s Will.
God will ask for repentance, if not accepted then eternal judgment is given. So, as I have said before, it matters not what trivial victories you may win now and in the future.Because I know the war has ALREADY been won, and who the VICTOR is – God and His People!
More honor for deceased ‘gay’ activist?
(I am still curious as to Milk’s response about his decision to practice the homosexual lifestyle, now that he knows what ETERNITY really is!)
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1349622
Oh yeah? Does he know now what “ETERNITY” REALLY IS? And how do YOU KNOW? Your arrogance seems to be really boundless. Dear man, there’s NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, POSTMORTEM. Get Real, grow up, COME TO YOUR SENSES, AT LAST!!! Your primitive, medieval musings about eternal retaliation are so typical of Fundamentalist America today. Keep dreaming your infantile dreams, if you must. The world is changing and changing very fast. But as deep-seated masochism seems to be an incurable disease, indeed, I’m sure you’ll enjoy your total isolation even more than ever before within a few years. Fantastic, huh?
And your point is??
Well, lets see here.How do I know there is an eternity? I can answer this with the same proof of asking you “how do you know there is life?” Save all your scientific explanations, you know that I WON’T accept them anyway.I know there is an eternity because God has said there is. Oh! but you are such a fool Bill. How can you just accept the fact because “God said so?” Well, lets examine the facts we see tangible proof of LIFE- don’t we? God said that He CREATED life we verify its existence by our own being, so it must be a FACT then.
On to the next piece of evidence. We see the physical presence of DEATH in our lives daily right? God said we are mortal because of sin did He not?(Wages of sin is death) Then our ephemeral existence ceases and we are no more. So far we have established two facts God created life, our lives end in physical death.
Now for the grand finale. Proving eternity should be no problem, considering we have proven life,death,we now move on to eternity. God said He created life and proves it to us daily. Death is a reality too,its presence is ubiquitous.God so far has proven His omnipotence in the arena of Life, Death, He has been faithful in His Word up to this point, so why should we doubt His claims regarding eternity? Can I offer tangible evidence as proof? NO! The evidence I(all Christians) have sinners are not privileged to see or understand. But, we accept on FAITH (The evidence of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen Hebrews 11:1) God’s Word and that is how we know there is an eternity, and the Hell that goes with it for those who choose a lifestyle that leads to a an eternity without Christ. FAITH BABY! That is all I got so mock me, ridicule- WHATEVER!!
Beautiful and very informative article about the Real Reasons behind the Fundamentalists’ Opposition to gay marriage and equal rights for gays in general. I Really enjoyed the crystal clear argumentation.
http://www.bidstrup.com/marriage.htm
1.Marriage is an institution between one man and one woman. Well, that’s the most often heard argument, one even codified in a recently passed U.S. federal law. Yet it is easily the weakest. Who says who marriage is to be defined by? The married? The marriable?********* I will tell you who defines Marriage- GOD DOES
2. Marriage is for procreation. The proponents of that argument are really hard pressed to explain why, if that’s the case, that infertile couples are allowed to marry. I, for one, would love to be there when the proponent of such an argument is to explain to his post-menopausal mother or impotent father that since they cannot procreate, they must now surrender their wedding rings! That would be fun to watch! Again, such an argument fails to persuade based on the marriages society does allow routinely, without even a second thought.*******
This one is a no Brainard, does the fact that God chose Abraham and Sarah to enforce His concept of Marriage and Proliferation of His People through the institution of Marriage??
3. Same-sex couples aren’t the optimum environment in which to raise children. That’s an interesting one, in light of who society does allow to get married and bring children into their marriage. Check it out: murderers, convicted felons of all sorts, even known child molesters are all allowed to freely marry and procreate, and do so every day, with hardly a second thought by these same critics. So if children are truly the priority here, why is this allowed? Why are the advocates of this argument not working to prohibit the above categories of people from raising children?************************
This is easily explainable too. If the status of people were identifiable prior to conceiving children then there would be provisions prohibiting their having them in society . In the case of the homosexual their status is known before hand, since most militantly out themselves before hand)and society disapproves of this environment for child to be raised in.
4. Gay relationships are immoral and violate the sacred institution of marriage. Says who? The Bible? ********* NO, not the Bible,but GOD like it or not-something the homosexual ideology can’t seem to erase from the psyche of society!
Oh,let’s cut to the chase here. This article is WEAK, it lacks the conviction to motivate Chacceptns to accpet this as beingsourceEDIBLE souce to provide serious argumentation in the battle for traditional mapremiseThe premeise of using REDUNDANT attacks on Christian beliefs,Bible,and the Constitution reveal the pathetic desperation to persuade changing opinions for marriage, and fence sitters, by the homosexual movement as they attempt to “SOFT SOAP” this issue.
When in reality the issue of homosexuality, SSM, is nothing but a coffin with a rotting corpse inside. It is being disguised as a white washed tomb by the homosexuals, hiding the stench and decay inherit with the wages of sin- DEATH
Should say:
Oh,let’s cut to the chase here. This article is WEAK, it lacks the conviction to motivatChristiansns tacceptet this as being a CREDIBLE
source to provide serious argumentation in the battle for traditional marriage Tpremiseise of using
Don’t understand why this is happening but will try again (Third time is a charm?)
Oh,let’s cut to the chase here. This article is WEAK, it lacks the conviction to motivate Christian to accept this as being a CREDIBLE
source to provide serious argumentation in the battle for traditional marriage The premise of using REDUNDANT attacks on Christian beliefs,Bible,and the Constitution reveal the pathetic desperation to persuade changing opinions for marriage, and fence sitters, by the homosexual movement as they attempt to “SOFT SOAP” this issue.
When in reality the issue of homosexuality, SSM, is nothing but a coffin with a rotting corpse inside. It is being disguised as a white washed tomb by the homosexuals, hiding the stench and decay inherit with the wages of sin- DEATH
Young Adult Christians Urged to ‘Collide’ With Pop Culture
http://www.christianpost.com/news/young-adult-christians-urged-to-collide-with-pop-culture-50314/
NYT: Mike Long, Conservative Party Stands Firm Against SSM in NY
http://www.nomblog.com/8890/
Swallowed a parrot, Bill? One would certainly think so, reading your headless rambling here. All you do is throwing in the same lame argument post after post, after post: the Lord this, the bible that, etc. What the ef do we care about your faith and all its brainless ramifications? You put up an entire act as if we’re dealing with hard facts here. But, in fact, neither your joker Abraham, nor your god herself, for that matter, can count as historical figures, can they?
Read here what the OT scholar Dr Claude Mariotinni says about Abraham, “the biblical texts are the only witnesses available that declare that there once was a man called Abraham. Without the biblical texts, no one would ever know that Abraham existed, and thus, no one would be able to write anything about him”……
http://doctor.claudemariottini.com/2006/02/ur-and-abraham-rejoinder-to-tim.html
Yes, and mind this guy is not some agnostic or atheist pain in the neck, such as myself, but a professor teaching at the Northern Baptist Seminary. So, what are you blathering about Abraham and Sara and “the Lord”. Nice bedtime tales, but history? Uh,uh. Ah yes, one particular story that made me laugh till I almost ached is the story about “God” paying Abrahamito his dear wife Sarita a visit, fully clothed and all. And guess what, aunt Sarah came out of her humble abode and asked her husband and her Lord whether they would care for a nice plate of freshly baked pancakes. And off she went to her stove to prepare a whole stack of yum-yums. Can you imagine this? The Lord of the entire Universe letting herself be treated to a plate of tasty, fatty Aunt Jemima’s? An atheist friend of mine alerted me to that joke of a story and we just couldn’t stop hollering.
No Bill, your biblical stories may constitute delightful bedtime stuff for your first graders, but historical material? Uh, uh, not by a long shot. So spare the crap about your god having established the institution of marriage as a liaison between a man and a woman, it’s just a bunch a laughable BS; that’s just what it is, nothing else.
Your apostasy is amusing. Even the fact that you believe God to be female is even more side-splitting! From what ERRANT source do you arrive at that conclusion? Never mind, I should know by now that you are so blinded by your futile belief system, and are beyond reason. You are the one that will be accountable for how you handled God’s Truth come judgment day – NOT ME.
Marriage: Illinois hopes for chance to weigh in ( Didn’t they pass SSM a short time ago?) Go Illinois!!
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1350286
Americans Still Choosing Marriage, Census Figures Show
In 2009, more than half of currently married couples (55 percent) had been married for at least 15 years, while 35 percent had reached their 25th anniversary. Six percent had even passed their golden wedding anniversary
http://www.christianpost.com/news/americans-still-choosing-marriage-census-figures-show-50331/
Kirk Cameron: Why Should Anyone Believe Hawking’s Writings?
“Professor Hawking is heralded as ‘the genius of Britain,’ yet he believes in the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything and that life sprang from non-life.”
http://www.christianpost.com/news/kirk-cameron-why-should-anyone-believe-hawkings-writings-50323/
Ah Bill, thanks a million for your compliment. I’d never have considered myself to be amusing. But I do realize, once again, that Life can be so full of fine surprises. Oh yeah! Still, what doesn’t come as surprise to me, of course, is the confrontation here with your conception of “god” as a real ‘HE-MAN’, always quite ready to judge and condemn and punish relentlessly. That’s what’s keeping your “faith” rolling so nicely, isn’t it? The idea that the day of reckoning is very, very near now. Never mind the fact that it seems to have been upon us for about two millennia already. Your very first Christian Friends already had their hearts, minds, bodies and what not, wide open for descent of your good lord Jesus. And I’m sure, they were gloating like toddlers on a Christmas morning over the idea of the Infidels and Heretics writhing and screaming and begging for mercy on that glorious day. Yeah Bill, nothing terribly new under our beautiful, yellow sun.
And then I read this in Neal Walsche’s delightfully lucid creation, COMMUNION WITH “GOD” (my parentheses) about the ILLUSIONS OF JUDGMENT and CONDEMNATION.
In fact these illusions constitute only a (relatively small) portion of a whole set of Ten (Grand) Illusions, all of which characterize (what I myself have designated) the basic fabric of Traditional Theistic Thinking. The most fundamentally characteristic illusion is the Illusion of (Divine) Need. God (or the gods) need(s) to be honored and served and praised. Now, in order to have this need fulfilled human beings, particularly, were created. So it would or should have been the Ultimate Glory for god or the gods to see their basic need(s) met by sentient beings, prepared to act according to THEIR WILL. (Talk about Divine Narcissism!!!!!). But along came our damned friend SATAN, necessitating your God to “play the COURT CARD”: Judgment and (ultimately) Condemnation became THE crucial concepts within the Big (especially monotheistic) Religions. Mighty weapons to keep the flock neatly aboard. Your bible is filled to the brim with stories depicting this curious constellation.
And this is what Neal Walsche’s God says about this state of affairs,
……. so has it come to pass that humans have gone through life demanding perfection (= full compliance with so-called Divine requirements, Fred. H) of those whom they themselves have called imperfect – namely, humans. First they do this to themselves. This is their initial, and often most costly, error. Then they do it to others. This is their second mistake. They have made it impossible for either themselves or others to ever (fully) meet The (Divine) Requirement(s).
End of quote. Yes, Bill this is what I call the SADOMASOCHISM of your Religious Belief System: an Illness, a perversion, a travesty and an incredibly horrible one at that. I’m totally through with it. Believe whatever you want, however much nonsensical, but leave us LGBTQ’s alone, we’ve got no use for you whatsoever.
Ah Bill, thanks a million for your compliment. I’d never have considered myself to be amusing. But I do realize, once again, that Life can be so full of fine surprises. Oh yeah! Still, what doesn’t come as surprise to me, of course, is the confrontation here with your conception of “god” as a real ‘HE-MAN’, always quite ready to judge and condemn and punish relentlessly. That’s what keeps your “faith” rolling so nicely, isn’t it? The idea that the day of reckoning is very, very near now. Never mind the fact that it seems to have been upon us for about two millennia already. Your very first Christian Friends already had their hearts, minds, bodies and what not, wide open for descent of your good lord Jesus. And I’m sure, they were gloating like toddlers on a Christmas morning over the idea of the Infidels and Heretics writhing and screaming and begging for mercy on that glorious day. Yeah Bill, nothing terribly new under our beautiful, yellow sun.
And then I read this in Neal Walsche’s delightfully lucid creation, COMMUNION WITH “GOD” (my parentheses) about the ILLUSIONS OF JUDGMENT and CONDEMNATION.
In fact these illusions constitute only a (relatively small) portion of a whole set of Ten (Grand) Illusions, all of which characterize (what I myself have designated) the basic fabric of Traditional Theistic Thinking. The most fundamentally characteristic illusion is the Illusion of (Divine) Need. God (or the gods) need(s) to be honored and served and praised. Now, in order to have this need fulfilled human beings, particularly, were created. So it would or should have been the Ultimate Glory for god or the gods to see their basic need(s) met by sentient beings, prepared to act according to THEIR WILL. (Talk about Divine Narcissism!!!!!). But along came our damned friend SATAN, necessitating your God to “play the COURT CARD”: Judgment and (ultimately) Condemnation became THE crucial concepts within the Big (especially monotheistic) Religions. Mighty weapons to keep the flock neatly aboard. Your bible is filled to the brim with stories depicting this curious constellation.
And this is what Neal Walsche’s God says about this state of affairs,
……. so has it come to pass that humans have gone through life demanding perfection (= full compliance with so-called Divine requirements, Fred. H) of those whom they themselves have called imperfect – namely, humans. First they do this to themselves. This is their initial, and often most costly, error. Then they do it to others. This is their second mistake. They have made it impossible for either themselves or others to ever (fully) meet The (Divine) Requirement(s).
End of quote. Yes, Bill this is what I call the SADOMASOCHISM of your Religious Belief System: an Illness, a perversion, a travesty and an incredibly horrible one at that. I’m totally through with it. Believe whatever you want, however much nonsensical, but leave us LGBTQ’s alone, we’ve got no use for you whatsoever.
We have hashed out this Neal walsche issue before. I have about as much respect for this false prophet as I do for a pile of dog crap on the ground. He will reap his judgment for his apostasy as well as those sucked in by his false teachings.
Let’s see because you don not believe in my religious beliefs that makes them an illness, a perversion, and travesty? Well considering the source of those comments I am WELL PLEASED in my efforts. Jesus told us that the world did not know Him or accept Him either, and to be of good cheer when ridiculed, mocked etc. because He OVERCAME the world!!
As for leaving the LGBTQ’s alone that will not happen. Christians have a Biblical mandate to spread the Gospel and teach about Sin, Repentance, and Love and God’s Forgiveness. Contrary, to what you may think, in your vision of a world without the Christian influence being the perfect world – it would not be.
There is a name for such a world like that it is called “HELL” It would be an impossibility for mankind to existence without a spiritual influence in the world. Every attempt( in human history)to try it HAS failed, WILL fail to accomplish it. OH NO! I am parroting again! BETTER GET USED TO IT
Very fine VICTORY for NON-Believers/Freethinkers in Georgia,
Freedom From Religion Foundation letters of complaint on behalf of Georgia members about government involvement in the Cobb County Prayer Breakfast led to corrective action by the county
Hooray!
http://www.ffrf.org/news/releases/georgia-county-drops-prayer-breakfast-phone-line/
I’ll be posting regularly about the Victories of the FREEDOM FROM RELIGION MOVEMENT!!!
Yes, Moon was overzealous in his activities. But, I do not think it is as deserving of the fanfare that you are raising. Must be a slow day for Homosexual victories eh? Look forward to your future endeavors with the FFRF!
Ah Bill, you’ve really made my day, mentioning that “genius” Bergler’s book, a very recent tome, of course, as it was published in 1962 !!!!! Well, I can tell you, my lover and I just could hardly stop laughing after we’d read the review to be found on Amazon.com and presented here below. An even more entertaining piece than that fantastic story about your (biblical) friend Abraham enjoying a plate-full a pancakes with your “Lord”. …. So here goes, yum,, yum, yum……
“ [Bergler] contends that a baby regards his mother as a witch who is trying to kill him. When the mother feeds the baby milk, the baby thinks she is trying to choke him. When the mother bathes the baby, the baby thinks she is trying to drown him. If a boy becomes fixated on this stage, homosexuality results”. End of quote.
Well, Billy man, what an absolute genius, eh, that “scientist” Bergler of yours!!!
Yeah, it’ll not only be a slow DAY for gay victories, I can assure you it’ll be a slow ETERNITY if the majority of your Conservative Friends happens to be blessed with the same level of INTELLIGENCE as that half-wit “Dr” Bergler! What an incredible joker. I’ll give my mom a call when I’m done here: you know what you are mummy, a damn witch….. So, maybe you can help us out, Bill; who’s to be considered the Real Moron here: that Bergler character of yours, or our Bill himself????
come on Bill, enlighten us…..
Newspaper Names Effort to Redefine Marriage in NY a “LOSER” This Week
New Yorkers United for Marriage — The coalition working so hard to pass a gay marriage bill has spent major money trying to flip Republican Senate votes. But with weeks left to go in the session, all their celebrity endorsements will pale against the reality that Republicans will vote how Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos and Conservative Party Chairman Mike Long want, money and lobbying be damned. Long threatened this week to withhold the Conservative line from Republicans who vote yes, which could be the kiss of death for some who got their margin of victory on Row C. Marriage activists still have time, but the coalition once considered unstoppable may end up STOPPED after all!
NOM Ya gotta love them—-
http://www.nomblog.com/8943/
Prepared remarks for the Judiciary Committee of the Minnesota State Senate, hearings on same sex marriage
Same sex marriage redefines parenthood, as a side effect of redefining marriage. Up until now, marriage has made legal parenthood track biological parenthood, with adoption for exceptional situations. The legal presumption of paternity means that children born to a married woman are presumed to be the children of her husband. With this legal rule, and the social practice of sexual exclusivity, marriage attaches children to their biological parents.
Same sex couples of course, DO NOT procreate together. So called Marriage Equality requires a dubious move from “presumption of paternity” to the gender neutral “presumption of parentage.” This sleight of hand transforms the legal understanding of parenthood. The same sex partner of a biological parent is never the other biological parent. Rather than attaching children to their biological parents, same sex marriage is the vehicle that SEPARATES children from a parent.
http://www.ruthblog.org/2011/05/02/dr-morses-testimony-to-mn-senate-judiciary/
Well Bill, here comes one of those VERY NICE VICTORIES for us Gays. Not exactly the Big Prize, but still, read this
“The Rhode Island House has voted on civil unions and the bill passes 62 to 11.
Democrats voted 56 yes; 8 no; 1 not voting
Republicans voted 6 yes; 3 no; 1 not voting
The bill will pass now go to the Senate where its passage is certain and then it will be signed by the Governor. In the immortal words of Gavin Newsom, it’s going to happen whether you like it or not.”
End of quote.
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/05/19/33381
So there ya go. Great, huh, this “slow day” for us ????
Dr. Morse’s testimony to the Rhode Island legislature yesterday re: SSM
Are you really prepared to accept responsibility for the consequences of detaching legal parenthood from the natural moorings of biology? Do you really want a world in which children may have three or four legal parents?4 Are you ready for contract parenting, in which adults parcel out parental responsibilities amongst themselves? That is the world you are bringing into being.
http://www.ruthblog.org/2011/02/10/dr-morses-testimony-to-the-rhode-island-legislature-yesterday-re-ssm/
People need to be reminded that it is THUS SAYETH the LORD GOD that DETERMINED and has GIVEN the LAW about MARRIAGE . YOU NEED REFERANCE???? IN THE OLD TESTAMENT the INCIDENT AT LOTS VISTING GUESTS that GOD SENT TO DESTROY the CITY BECAUSE OF DEPRAVITY> NAMELY HOMOSEXUALITY AMONG OTHDER THINGS. SODOM AND GOMORRAH.. SODOMY IS UNATURAL SEXUAL ACTS. According to the WORD THEY CAME WANTING SEXUAL ACTS WITH THOSE GUESTS OF LOT. MEN CAME TO WANTING SEX WITH MEN UNATURAL ACCORDING TO THE LORD AND HIS WORD!!!! not mine or
THEN IN THE NEW TESTAMENT all one must do is read the First chapter of Romans about the UNATURALK ACTS OF MEN and WOMAN HAVING UNATURAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH MAN TO MAN HOMOSEXUAL MEN and I believe it SAYS: THE UNATURAL USE OF WOMAN.. LESBIANS Of Course ALL HOMOSEXUALS and LESBIANS CHOOSE TO IGNORE GODS LAW ABOUT MARRIAGE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN. HE REALLY HGAS MADE ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN I BELIEVE THE DIFFERENCE IOS APPARENT FEMALE AND MALE EVEN TODAY!!!!!!!
A courageous therapist blows the whistle on her profession
In Unprotected, you will be shocked to learn:
* which popular Ivy League university’s health Web site gives a thumbs-up to risky, fringe behaviors such as sadomasochism, “swinging,” and bestiality;
* that there’s proof that most therapists ignore the significant health benefits of church attendance and religious observance, and are actually prejudiced against people of faith;
* why campus health centers hound students to stop smoking, eat right, get enough sleep, and wear sunscreen, but tacitly approve of promiscuity and whitewash the consequences of sexually transmitted infections and abortion;
* how HIV education is distorted, and what that does both to students at no risk for infection, and those who are.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1595230254?tag=jenniferrobac-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=1595230254&adid=0NDZTHBYYGZ580TZCB4K&
Life without Father: Compelling New Evidence That Fatherhood and Marriage Are Indispensable for the Good of Children and Society
Every unhappy family may be unhappy in its own way, but a common denominator of familial misery is an absent father. To convert doubters of that proposition, sociologist Popenoe offers conclusions pulled from empirical studies, which overlay his frequent enunciation of the child’s viewpoint: don’t most kids in single-mother households prefer, if given a choice, also having a good father in the family? That 40 percent don’t have one occupies Popenoe’s search for the root of the problem, which takes him on a historical excursion through the American family from Puritan patriarchy to contemporary patterns of self-defined families. In contemporary patterns, Popenoe detects a source of fatherlessness in “radical individualism.” Lest some readers recoil from that thesis, Popenoe takes pains not to idealize the Victorian or the 1950s nuclear family: he admits their stifling aspects but also insists that the responses to them–easy divorce and the elimination of social sanctions against illegitimacy–ineluctably lead to current rates of fatherlessness. Stern but readable analysis similar to David Blankenhorn’s Fatherless America (1995). Gilbert Taylor –This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0674532600?tag=jenniferrobac-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0674532600&adid=0ZWRWNE2TC31VSR4EKW9&
Analysis: Gay Marriage in NY Hits Stumbling Blocks
Now the opposition has a $1.5 million fund of its own from a national group [i.e. NOM]. There was even some shakiness in the ranks of gay marriage advocates, while Republican senators on the other side, rather than wilting, appear emboldened. A new “defense of marriage” bill has been introduced that wouldn’t recognize gay marriages sealed in other states.
http://www.nomblog.com/8953/
Married Women – Better Sex, More Money
Actress Cameron Diaz recently called marriage a “dying institution.” Then, she declared, “I don’t think we should live our lives in relationships based off old traditions that don’t suit our world any longer.” Miss Diaz, in case you didn’t know, is a big Hollywood star who has had high-profile NON-MARITAL relationships with other big Hollywood stars like Justin Timberlake and Matt Dillon.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/married_women_better_sex_more.html
I fully agree with these actors: inmho marriage constitutes a total anachronism, indeed. Who wants to marry should be able to do so, of course, but in this day and age the institution has completely lost its “compulsory” status. Formerly, marriage derived its functionality through and from a whole set of legislative stipulations. Wives as well as children could and would be protected from poverty and other material misery, etc. But all this was largely, it not completely, based on more or less fixed role-positioning: women took care of all menial household affairs (including child care); messieurs, their husbands, were supposed to earn the family’s daily bread, etc. The whole set-up, quite obviously, neatly sanctioned by “The Church”, or religious institutions, tout court. And then, everything changed in the course of our dearest 20th century (thank heavens). At least within the greater part of the West. Reread your sociology textbooks for proof. Religion has lost its precious hegemony, thank goodness; freedom prevails. I couldn’t be more grateful!!!!!
Web Site for the preceding article:
http://www.robgagnon.net/articles/homosexIncestPolyAnalogy3.pdf
Again Bill, this Rob Gagnon nonsense of yours would be worthy of recitation by a college freshman stand-up comedian. Consider the following quote from that genius’s article,
“If in a heterosexual union two sexual halves unite to constitute a sexual whole, the logic of a homosexual union, by analogy, is that two HALF-MALES unite to form a single WHOLE MALE; or two HALF-FEMALE unite to form a single whole female. A half unites sexually with its complementary half. To regard one’s self, if male, as completed sexually by another male is to make an implicit statement that one does not regard one’s particular gender as being intact apart from such a union.”
So, what I would do as that comedian, would be to ask a male partner to join me on stage and then I’d say: You know, darling, we’re not supposed to have sex tonight, because each one of us happens to be a half male. Sorry, honey: you’ll HAVE to get rid of that nasty thing between yer legs, whereafter you’d be a (W)HOLE female, at last. Got it? See, together we’re nothing but a whole male and a whole male absolutely needs a whole female to properly execute the sex act.
But wait, wait, wait, my partner would say, you’ll have to help me out here. Wouldn’t a straight (whole) female in fact be half a sexual mate, according to your definition? So wouldn’t we need two females, who would constitute one WHOLE female, fit for the act with a WHOLE MALE (in fact two males, who, of course, would be two half-males)…… And I’d have to run behind that stage for fear of wetting my pants after having tried to keep my face neatly straight for over 15 min.
Really Bill, your quite a piece a work, you’re You should really try your hand at a long, long satirical novel and start cashing in those six figure checks!!!
Frederick,
Your attempts to muddy the waters are TEMPORAL at best – they eventually return to their NATURAL state.
“Muddy the waters”? Is that all you’ve got to say? What waters? No, Bill imo it’s pure “DEBILITAS MENTIS” Gagnon’s been displaying here. Nonsense, garbage. But, of course, no matter how nonsensical and idiotic a line of reasoning appears to be, it must be good, very good even, so lang as it’s anti-gay. That’s how far you’re prepared to march on your road to really nowhere. How Pathetic: this naked emperor and his false trumpets.
Fantastic and “Funny” UK report. Should be emulated by gay couples in the USA, suffering similar types of harassment
http://purpleroofs.com/gay-travel-blog/2011/01/uk-gay-couple-wins-lawsuit-against-christian-hotel-owners.html
Gay Couple Wins Lawsuit Against Christian Hotel Owners
The Christian owners of a seaside hotel who refused to let a gay couple stay in one of its double rooms acted unlawfully, a judge ruled Tuesday. Peter and Hazelmary Bull, of the Chymorvah Hotel, near Penzance, said allowing Martyn Hall and his civil partner Steven Preddy to share a bed would have been “an affront to their faith”.
But a judge at Bristol County Court found that they were breaking the law when they denied the couple a double room in September 2008. Hall and Preddy were each awarded £1,800 in damages!!
Seems to me that Hall and Preddy place such a CHEAP value on their souls, oh well one needn’t be surprised by such arrogance, as well as ignorance, displayed in the world today – which will be brought ACCOUNTABLE come judgment day.
Oops! here is the web site.
http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147506487
Arrogance by two citizens, legally united and asking very politely for a room to stay?? You must be kidding me, Bill. It’s those small-minded Christian morons that deserve to be called arrogant. That’s what. Come on. My lover and I just drank to that judge’s health. Sue these bastard hotel owners. Who do they think they are? Sod off with ‘em all.
Having TOO much fun today! Forgot to give web site again.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/from-chastity-to-chaz-thou-shalt-not-criticize-50419/
Ah stand-up comedian Bill is at it again. Well, what YOU are displaying here are the symptoms of what we call HYPOMANIC DISORDER. Put a monkey in front of a slot machine and you’ll see what I mean. That poor critter won’t be able to let its paw (sorry, arm) stop slamming that poke back and forth. So, you get the picture: I close my eyes and see you in front of your precious laptop, TAP, TOP, TAP, TOP, TAP, TOP, all day long……
Yes, my friend, this monkey will TAP, TOP, TAP, TOP, TAP, TOP, all day long…… provided there are newsworthy articles to share- and today is a BONANZA!!
In His Love,
Bill
And Now for This. Read all of it. You’ll see that there’s still SOME INTELLIGENCE AND RATIONALITY left in the USA today, thank THE LADY….
Poll: Majority in US back same-sex marriage
Gallup shows 53 percent say it should be legal, up from 44 percent last year
More than half of Americans say same-sex marriage should be legal, garnering the same rights as traditional marriages, according to a newly released Gallup poll showing for the first time since Gallup began tracking the issue in 1996 support by a majority of Americans.
The increase since last year — when 44 percent versus this year’s 53 percent supported legalizing same-sex marriages — came exclusively among political independents and Democrats. Views of Republicans didn’t change from last year, with 28 percent supporting gay marriage both years.
The results are based on Gallup’s May 5-8 Values and Beliefs poll, which has tracked attitudes toward legalizing same-sex marriage every year since 2004, adding to its initial polling on the topic in 1996 and 1999
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43110820/ns/today-today_health/t/poll-majority-us-back-same-sex-marriage/
C’mon Frederick,
I had you pegged less GULLIBLE than that – oh well. I guess I will have to PROVE it to you in the coming days ahead that this article is a sad misrepresentation of the TRUE sentimentnt of this country- JUST WATCH.
Yeah, hooray, hooray, hooray
(Openly Lesbian) Barbra Lenk Confirmed To Mass. High Court
There goes my last champagne bottle…..
See, Bill, patience, patience, patience conquers all, Eventually!!!!
http://www.wbur.org/2011/05/04/lenk-sjc-vote
Sorry, Frederick, old boy but that is days old. You’ve got to be faster on the TAP, TOP, TAP, TOP, TAP, TOP for it to be NEWS!
Gee Bill, maybe you can explain this to me: I walked into my kitchen this morning and my calendar said May 1311. I thought: huh?? A veritable shocker!!! But then I read your post and I finally realized that the entry was absolutely correct. What with the massive incidence of the PLAGUE, killing millions all over the planet (not to mention our dearest friend AIDS/HIV, of course: still no medication available whatsoever….). Oh yes, and, indeed, what to think of all these fine tornadoes and floodings, etc, etc. And you’re sooo right: we can quietly keep our cars and industrial plants and houses spewing even more Co2 and other pollutants than ever before; what does it all matter? Nothing of course, nothing at all. Fish going extinct all over the globe, because of all the terrific stuff we’re dumping into our oceans, lakes and rivers? Why should we care? Those poor black and brown bastards in Africa and Asia are cutting each other’s throats day by holy day, anyway. So, we (….) are just helping them keep their populations within at least somewhat reasonable boundaries by our environmental policies (as well as the reinforcement of theirs). It’ll put a lot of extra dough in our pockets (and those of THEIR financial, industrial and political ELITE), after all.
What more would we want, now? Praise our VENGEFUL LADY (oh sorry, um, LORD, of course), who’s LOVE ITSELF from head to toe…….. (S)he sends folk surviving in our glorious developing countries so much delectable poverty, fantastic diseases, violence against women and other disobedient minority sods, I now even feel tempted to attend Sunday services once again and pray for hours at a stretch…… Praise ye the Ladylord!
Oh, btw, Bill, don’t forget to take your Lithium today, helps excellently against bouts of mania.
New HRC Poll: Majority of Christians in US Oppose the Defense of Marriage Act
So, here you go: not all Christians go through life with i.q.’s below the .75 mark,apparently!!!
http://www.gayapolis.com/news/artdisplay.php?artid=8879
http://www.christianpost.com/news/focus-on-the-family-were-losing-fight-against-gay-marriage-50445/
I gather you’ve already been appointed MASTER AFTERLIFE FIRE POKER by your LadyLord. Dream on Billie boy, keep those masturbatory engines up there in your cabesa rolling as frantically as you do now. The only regret I have is, that I, probably, won’t be able to observe the look on your spirit’s “face” when you discover the fact that you’ve been conned all along by your illustrious bible writers: no sugary pastoral heaven, no fiery hell: nothing, just nothing at all. Poor, poor Billie: all that fanaticism, all the useless effort, all those hours, tapping away like a real schizo incarcerated somewhere in a clinic uptown. All for nothing at the end of the day. What a waste.
Oh, btw, I’m still waiting for your (hard) evidence, – no anecdotes, please- refuting the conclusions of the polls I cited above.
Well,
No doubt there may some truth to what the poll indicates,I mean when one views the present state of mankind and his search for solutions to this insane drama we call” LIFE”- only for him temporarily leave his confusion to find a CORRUPT Church- it is no wonder why we are a CONDEMNED people. And to remind you that if your accusations regarding my faith prove to be true, it is still my right to believe and live what I choose. How typical of you (homosexuals) to respond with criticism of my faith, attacks on my character,deriding anything that I present that doesn’t agree with your doomed agenda.
As I have reiterated in the past there is NOTHING that you – or anyone on this planet- can SAY,or DO to me that will change me one iota in my beliefs- NOT EVEN DEATH CAN.So, you see why it is futile to try and degrade me, affect my faith etc. You CAN’T defeat that which is already destined for Eternal Glory- I am IN the world but I am NOT of the world!
The point is Bill, that you and many of your (ultra)conservative friends are just as culpable as “we” (the Agnostic/atheist Homosexuals) are. You won’t miss a single opportunity to defame and deride us as fiercely as you can. I’m not a masochist, Bill. I abhor your (type of) “activism”, precisely because it’s based on a totally delusional sort of thinking. The idea that there is a “God” hiding somewhere (and perpetually present here at the same time), wanting us to follow rules committed to a bundle of paper thousands of years ago, this, Bill, borders on the totally insane, as far as I’m concerned. How can I take someone seriously who’s very existence is highly doubtful, at best? Your Jesus is supposed to have said that we human beings should love “God” with all our hearts and minds, etc, etc. But how can I love someone who doesn’t communicate with me, who remains as obscure as the next alien race, living billions of light years away from our planet? Absolutely impossible, Bill, simply the epitome of absurdity. So, to me the idea of a god out there watching and judging us tacitly all the time is nothing but a figment of human imagination. A concept meant to help us come to grips with the mysteries of life, death and the universe at large. But it’s quite obviously not working for me, at least.
God and his/her kingdom to me have the status of a phantom and its alleged virtual “reality”. The notion of a god such as you portray here so ofte, merely instills irritation and impatience in me. Not a shred of comfort or hope, in other words. That’s why I can become so angry when people tell me that homosexuality runs contrary to “god’s will”. Our only source for such a conception is your bible (and the Koran, of course), but those I find totally unreliable. Documents concocted by human beings, men living hundreds to thousands of years ago. They depict a reality, or realities rather, that doesn’t (or don’t) speak to my heart at all and which I therefore have to dismiss. Sorry.
The idea that there is a “God” hiding somewhere (and perpetually present here at the same time), wanting us to follow rules committed to a bundle of paper thousands of years ago*****************
Frederick, just because you aren’t cable of experiencing God’s presence doesn’t mean that He doesn’t exist or is unapproachable because He is HIDING somewhere- I know that He exists and experience Him daily. As for His Word, The Bible, it is the ULTIMATE source for all KNOWLEDGE – contains the answer to every question mankind will ever ask – has the solution for EVERY problem to confront humanity.
Because you do not have faith is the reason that you will never understand why we (CHRISTIANS) cling so tenaciously to our beliefs. Trying to explain to you what experience is like two people speaking different languages to one another – unless a common ground is reached, all the dialog between them is wasted.
So you will never understand the Christian Faith because of your failure to make an honest attempt to connect with God and accept His Love and gift of Salvation- you will be on the outside looking in until you make a commitment – and continue to doubt,criticize that which fail to understand.
I know for a fact that you have never given any serious consideration of trying to read the Bible. It is a book that takes a lifetime to truly begin to scratch the surface of – even the most accomplished Minister, Pastor etc. today with their years of study is in their infancy of understanding God’s Word.
It is much easier for the unbeliever to criticize, mock, ridicule that which they don’t understand – than it is for them to make an honest attempt to confront the Word of The Living God – keeping them in permanent ignorance.
Ferderick,
Upon further reflection I must respond to your claim regarding attacking you (Agnostic/atheist Homosexuals).It has NEVER been my attempt to attack you personally in my response to this sinful practice – and I hope to have remained faithful to that.
The contrast in my response to yours, is that I react from Biblical Truths which you deny. Your response is from an offensive position to attempt to silence or discredit me out of rage,hate – something that you know by now is futile to do.
I have never attacked you, your character, intelligence etc.- the focus has ALWAYS been, and will CONTINUE to be -the CULTURAL ABYSS between those that believe in the tradition of Marriage and the Family – vs those that support Homosexuality. So, despite ANY ignorance you may cast my way I will ALWAYS respond in CHRISTIAN LOVE.
Please don’t attempt to access the web site the link is not working.
Oh Bill, please, please (sigh), I have already reported extensively on the totally insane absurdities contained within the covers of your bible, but ok, here we go just one more time. I’ll give you two examples of, what I consider, the fully unethical mentality running through a substantial part of that despicable book.
1) The story of the prophet Elisha and the 42 “thugs” (“devoured” by two she-bears)
‘…as he (=Elisha) was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.” (2nd Kings 2:23-24)
Well, of course, a fair number of “scholars” and pseudo-scholars have thrown in their 2 cents trying to interpret this story in line with an ethically acceptable standard (of conduct). See, for instance, http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/970792. Here is what Roger Kovacini says:
“In the first place, it doesn’t say the bears tore them “to pieces,” but only mauled them”.
My comment: Now what might have been meant by MAULED here? Only a few scratches here and there? One eye or pairs of eyes clawed away? What? Can you imagine those bears, probably in a foul mood anyway, merely “caressing” these youths with their pretty paws to scare ‘em off? Come on, don’t be ridiculous. These critters might have just found a whole lot of juicy meat to fill their bellies and those of their cubs for well over a week. Mauled? Don’t make me laugh.
In the second place, the word “children” was used of Joseph when he was 28 years old, so it’s a mistranslation. They weren’t children; this was a gang of toughs.
My comment: Oh, how can we be sure this is a “mistranslation”? After all, there must be a correct word available in Hebrew for CHILDREN (in general). What would that be then? Furthermore, surely a gang of 12 year old toughs (or thereabouts) can very well be just as frightening as a whole pack of 28 year olds trying to grab you for a fine old-fashioned romp? Go ask the little old ladies scurrying the alleys of the Bronx in NY or downtown L.A.!
Etc.
So, as far as I’m concerned this story is so typical of your biblical OT: it’s violence, violence, violence all the way up and down, left and right. An (atheist) acquaintance of mine, for example, alerted me to the content of many of the Psalms: I was thoroughly shocked to see how much senseless violence has been strewn about within those pages. A veritable heap of bloody battlefields, worthy of conversion into a nice folder of modern computer games, excellent the education and amusement of our young ones!!!!! (Yes, and you conservatives complain about gays trying to educate our school children about gay life and gay marriage??? Shame on you, you hypocrites!).
Oh, I wanted to present an analysis of a curious New Testament story that shocked me just as much as that hideous Elisha tale: the story of Jesus healing a man who’d been begging for help for about 38 years!! Unfortunately, I’ve got no time left right now. See ya next time.
Frederick,
I regret that all that you can discern about the Bible is its violence, but it does reflect the truth about the Human condition- we are a violent race. As for the bears and their treatment of the victims – you must remember they are under the control of the Creator of ALL -if it is His desire to have them GENTLY MAUL, then so be it.
That is what the Bible is about FAITH -to understand it, you have to have it. I can only tell you that all other sources published by human hands DO NOT even come close to explaining the Grand Scheme of things, or providing consolation,comfort, etc.
Absolute rubbish, Bill, I’m sorry. You csn twist and turn your biblical “Testaments” whichever way you want, they remain full of horrific types of violence, FULLY, FULLY, FULLY SANCTIONED BY YOUR GOD. Don’t try to hide behind the notion of “a violent race”, because it’s your God him or herself who’s constantly reinforcing that brutal mentality all through your so-called Scriptures. I do not find such brutality displayed in the Taoist writings, which for me represent the epitome, nay, the essence of spiritual civility, depth and ethical standing. Your bible, in my view, bespeaks the heart and mind of “primitive man”, with savagery, power-hunger and relentless blood thirst as central characteristics, right up to the whole bloody Calvary scene on the cross representing its nauseating “apotheosis”. And today you see such mentality neatly displayed in the Middle East (the cradle of your biblical scribbling): bloodthirsty egomaniacs, killing off thousands of innocent citizens, who happen to be completely through with these characters’ sadistic power games.
The so be it, according to Frederick.
“A patriot without religion in my estimation is as great a paradox as an honest Man without the fear of God. Is it possible that he whom no moral obligations bind, can have any real Good Will towards Men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of society?…The Scriptures tell us “righteousness exalteth a Nation.” Abigail Adams, November 05, 1775). You should understand that you fit this category, Frederick. You and your kind are undermining our society and must be stopped. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
First, Frederick you are worng. Could you please show me where it says seperation of church and state in the Constitution? It’s not mentioned anywhere in there. So why do you lie? Second, I forgot to mention some other things:
“It cannot be emphsized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775.
This is why you are allowed to be here and no other reason.
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” John Jay, October 12, 1816. This means no gays or other immoral groups. Also means no atheists.
“The highest glory of the Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams, 1860. Sorry but gays and atheists don’t fit our founding.
“The Smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a Nation that disreguards the eternal rules of Order and Right, which Heaven itself Ordained.” George Washington. This is something that your kind should try to understand, as you are trying to undermine them. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
The USA still constitute(s) a modern, seculare nation, celebrating a full seperation of church and state, thank goodness. I’m very happy to be able to confirm my agnosticism/atheism. Religion imho can and should never be imposed upon anybody. Really NEVER. I am not urging or coercing anyone to step up the road I have chosen for myself. Doing so (“forcing” others to share my convictions) would not only be unethical but stupid just as well. Convictions happen to reside in one’s heart and can therefore be considered absolutely unalienable. That’s precisely why I’ve always detested missionary activities: believe whatever you want, but do not try to shove anything down another person’s throat. You wouldn’t want to be treated likewise. Oh btw, Sook Young, Patriotism doesn’t mean anything to me. I consider myzelf a pretty enlightened GLOBAL CITIZEN. I would, probably, be able to live in any country where HUMAN RIGHTS are duly honored, be it the US, Japan, Australia, Brazil or Belgium. No sweat. Freedom is the highest good “available” on this planet. Have a very nice day.
There is no seperation of church and state in the Constitution and we were founded a Christian nation. Even our Constitution is Christian,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HS1GY30lcY
This will prove you wrong. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Here’s one telling about our Judeo-Christian Nation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpQ0Cvthw-o&NR=1
Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
You sound almost like the pretender in the White House. No patriotism? How can you call yourself a good American and have no patriotism? I only became a citizen last year in July, but it seems that I have more patriotism then you do. BTW we were founded a Christian nation and anything immoral or unnatural really has no place here. I know I sound like I’m attacking you, but I’m not. I just don’t like the lifestyle you live and glorify as if it were acceptible in this great country. Why should it be? It’s not acceptible in my home country either. No we are not muslim, but the ways of buddhism doesn’t accept it either. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Fred, you ARE the poster child for your “so-called primitive man.” Take a good look in the mirror, but alas that would require you to stop the continual barrage of verbal attacks. Well, maybe that’s why you incessantly spew so that you don’t have to take a look at your own depravity. A psychological nugget in the wake of Oprah’s farewell…..
God mentioned in every state Constitution:
http://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.html
Very good referencing about God in our nation’s founding and the founding of all 50 states. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Here is one about our American Christian Heritage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UBaTpdyC48
Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
I found a video stating the accoplishments of Christianity for the benefits of the world called “Thank God for Christianity.” These are more than any atheist or other religion has ever accomplished.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEiLOXIHuCk&feature=related
Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Her is a true song I found from 3 years ago and makes sense today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpheZUB90Y&feature=related
Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
I know these postings don’t deal with gays, but Frederick said some lies about being a secular state and seperation of church and state. I hope these sets him straight. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Sook young,
Please I have come to the conclusion that trying to persuade Frederick to a more comprehensive viewpoint is futile. Obviously,he is set in his ways-he believes that building his house on sand will preserve himself when the coming floods begin.That is his right, I will fight to ensure that he has clear title to his choice of fate -after all – this is still AMERICA!
His pride in the sinful lifestyle and his delusion of thinking he is right unfortunately will be a lethal choice.I have made the decision to no longer “Throw pearls before swine”. I will continue to present articles in the forum when I deem necessary – but beyond that I will put my efforts into more SPIRITUALLY productive endeavors for God’s Kingdom.
Oh no, Sook Young, please I’m not going to start a whole discussion with you now about the seperation of church and state in this country. I’ve got no time for such nonsense. Please, go EDUCATE YOURSELF PROPERLY on this matter, if you like. I really don’t care a hitch. But I see you’ve got a whole universe of time on your hands, so study these documents and be informed correctly.
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States
Jefferson wrote, “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their “legislature” should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building A WALL OF SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his NATURAL RIGHTS”…..
End of quote.
Yes, this is what I believe and endorse and I consider it my Natural Right to be and remain an Agnostic leaning toward Atheism and shall fight against any attempt of whatever religious group(s) ti interfere with my rights regarding marriage and FREE SPEECH, period.
2) And read this about all kinds of myths related to the (alleged consequences of) the separation of church and state
http://atheism.about.com/od/churchstatemyths/p/Hostility.htm
3)No, Sook Young we most certainly do not need another Iran-like state here on this continent or even one resembling Italy, the SLAVE of the Vatican. Ugh!!!
Looking for a Parenting Article for Homosexual Parents !!!
http://kids-and-parenting.com/looking-for-a-parenting-article-for-homosexual-parents/
Sorry Frederick, but the 1st Amendments clearly states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” But it doesn’t say separation of church and state anywhere in the Constitution. I have my copy of it on hand, do you? Please dont lie about things like that. What proof and evidence can you provide that proves atheism is accurate and correct? Don’t use your crutch of science. It is impossible for science to accurately and factually describe such issues. Since you say you are gay and don’t care, well, I’ll have to pray for you before it is too late. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
“It is impossible for science to accurately and factually describe such issues.” Could I ask how religion can “accurately and factually describe such issues”??
Good Heavens,Sook Young, can’t you read properly? No, you won’t find these words, “THUS, CREATING A WALL OF SEPERATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE”, included (literally) in the First Amendment, but Thomas Jefferson, the erstwhile President, remember?, did very clearly indicate the IMPLICATION (look up this word in your dictionary) of these words, “make no law respecting an establishment of religion”….. So, tell me, if religion should be kept out of a formal legislature, how is the RELATIONSHIP between government and religion to be envisioned? Yes, tell me how, considering these words, “make no law respecting the establishment of religion”? Why would Jefferson have deemed it necessary to explicitly stipulate this condition? And in the letter to the Baptist Church officials (cited in my previous post), mention (the) WALL OF SEPERATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE? Try to answer that question for yourself……
Now here’s another article – taken from the Washington Post – neatly elaborating on this whole point concerning the separation of state and church. If you’re able to understand the article you’ll see that I’m not lying!!! It’s title? ‘ First amendment includes separation of church and state’.
Enjoy
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/charles_c_haynes/2010/10/separation_of_church_and_state_is_in_the_first_amendment.html
Oh yes, you’re considering prayer for me, to attain what? A cure for my “gayness”? Please, dear lady, I really do think there are much more important things for you to tend to. There is absolutely nothing to be cured.I feel perfectly happy and healthy, well, except for a nagging stomach condition and rather weak eyes, I couldn’t be in a better shape these days. So, thank you, but, um, no, thank you!
You’d better see a gastroenterologist for that “gayness” disease.
Ah, the good doctor Marilyn is making her rounds once again. Well doctor, I can tell you, it’s not what you think. And I know what you think, I happen to be clairaudient – if that’s what it’s called -, namely, I’m sure the Bastard’s contracted an STD. But no, I’ll have to disappoint you, it’s “simply” G(astro)E(sophagus)R(efflux)D(isease). Great, eh???
So, I now I think it’s nothing but your LadyLord’s doing: (S)he’s delivered a pretty sloppy job on that eighth day of creation. Must have been very, very tough on Her, that last day before the Great Holiday, because – as my biologist friends tell me – She would never have been awarded the Big Nobel Prize for the construction of the Human Eye either. What a mess. Have a great weekend, Doctor Mary!
Frederick, are you still on drugs? What my wife said was true and cannot be disputed.
“Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ.” Rev. Jonathan Dickinson, First President of Princeton University. Get the point, hmmm?
“Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise. In this sense and to this extent, our civilizations and our institutions are emphatically Christian.” Illinois Supremem Court, 1883, Richmond V. Moore
I could go on, but what would be the point? As you stick to the lib ways and not the ways of our country. In fact, I challenge you to find the 3 places in the Constitution that refer to God or Jesus. Soory boy, but atheists and gays have no part in our founding, nor are they any real part of this nation. Remember what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah? They weren’t destroyed by God for idol worshipping. Take the hint. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
My dearest SAMOU, you’ll never give up, will you, huh? I do hope you’ve read that Washington Post article, and, above all, understood it at least reasonably well. (Although I seriously doubt your capacity to come close. But ok…..). Anyway, imho the most pressing problem with you and your conservative ilk is the almost total inability to think, for even a couple of seconds, beyond the confines of your absolutely witless provincialism. The only thing you’ve set your pea-sized brain on is the total take-over of this nation in order to kick us back into the DARK AGES OF FULL IGNORANCE AND SUPERSTITION. You neatly prove my point by coming up – once again – with that myth about the demise of Sodom & Gomorrah. Please, there is considerable dispute and disagreement among scholars considering the historicity of these cities in the first place. Let alone the matter of their alleged “destruction” and the possible reasons involved. Furthermore, these places are repeatedly mentioned even within New Testament texts, but NOWHERE an allusion regarding HOMOSEXUALTIY as such is even remotely presented. So, it’s all nonsense you keep blathering here.
Oh, and what is this stupidity about drugs? Where did I ever indicate anything about drug (ab)use? Now I’m really beginning to think you’ve got a serious problem with “the bottle”, that’s pretty much letting you ramble on here like you did recently.
Your ignorance is very amusing. When are you going to answer my questions about the 3 places where God and Jesus are referenced or related to in the Constitution? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Everyone have a Happy Memorial Day!
What’s the point of this very tendentious description of the “Manning case”? That an openly gay man should be considered “unfit for service”? Don’t be ridiculous, Bill? Have you ever tried to find out about the number of straight soldiers messing up in combat? Come on, this is so dishonest and infantile, Bill. I had really taken you to be a more intelligent and considerate “Christian”. And, you dare talk about gays being full of hate? Take a real hard look in your mirror first.
It’s obvious that Frederick didn’t read the psychological eval the army did on him. He was one of those that his relationship was on the rocks and became mentally unfit for combat. In fact, he was unfit for service. One of his officers said that an NCO chewed him out so bad that the soldier wet his pants. If a person wets their pants just for getting yelled at, does Frederick really think the person is ready for combat? How about when is batallion commander called him into his office to “discuss” things with him, he became so irate that he started throwing chairs around his office and had to be restrained. Does this sound like a soldier you would send into battle in Iraq? Ooops! I keep forgetting that you weren’t good enough to serve. Keep up the good fight Bill. Frederick just doesn’t understand that we will win the good fight in the end and his side will lose everything, to count their souls in the firey furnace of hades. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Oh yeah, Bill, do you think there really are “Pink Therapists” around offering a cure for Christianity? Ah well, what’s keeping you from applying…….. Might help you lead a pretty useful life the coming decade, don’t you think?
Come to think of it: I could even start up a great new movement: PFOEC (pronounce P-Folk), i.e. Parents and Friends Of Ex-Christians. wouldn’t that be a marvelous idea? What a genius, eh?
What genius? You’re too late. they already have a group like that out there called atheists. Maybe we can create a group called the true patriots, where they would have the Bible be the only book dealing with our laws and everyday way of life. This country would become a utopia. No more gay nonsense, atheists, bi’s, etc. If this happened, just think of all the blessing that would come down on this country from heaven. Could happen. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Samou, your bible as our ultimate guide? You should hear me laughing out loud here behind my desk. What about all those 4000 years you’ve already had to set things straight on this planet? It’s been you Christians who killed millions upon millions of innocent women and children all through the ages; who endorsed slave-trade and ordered and supported the horrifying decimation of the Amer-Indian people on this continent, who instigated and supported mass colonization all over the planet, who failed to eradicate perpetual poverty around the globe. And I’ve not even mentioned the support lent to mass murderers such as Hitler (who was a devout catholic, mind you), Mussolini and Pinochet and Videla. Come on, Samou, you must be totally out of your wacko with your bible. It’s one of the most horribly and perversely violent books ever written. Down the sewer with that loathsome book. Once and for all times. Amen.
FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE AND THE WELL-BEING OF ALL CREATURES INHABITING GAIA, OUR DEAR PLANET EARTH.
Samurai,
How quickly they forget that in a former post I stated the facts regarding the Atheistic Religions are the ones that have committed more violence and death than the Christian religions did in their brief crusades.I must remind myself that we are dealing with secular liberalism, and have compassions on their ignorance. Anyway, here is a copy of the original post :
Bill says:
February 3, 2011 at 8:59 pm
Frederick,
Here is a little something for you regarding your prejudicial attitude towards Christianity and its alleged history of violence. Of all the deaths and destruction that were committed in the name of religion,there were three Atheistic regimes that contributed to over 100 Million deaths in the twentieth century. They were Hitler (Nazi Germany, Stalin in Russia, Mao in China). Deaths by Christian rulers over a five hundred year period amount to only 1% of the deaths caused by Hitler,Stalin, Mao in the space of a few decades. So Frederick, which is the least tolerant,most violent religion?
DADT (DON’T ASK DON’T TELL) STUDY LEAK: Repeal Will Not Undermine Military During Time Of War
More than 70 percent of respondents to a survey sent to active-duty and reserve troops over the summer said the effect of repealing the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy would be positive, mixed or nonexistent, said two sources familiar with the document. The survey results led the report’s authors to conclude that objections to openly gay colleagues would drop once troops were able to live and serve alongside them….
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/11/10/dadt-leak-2/
“Conservatives’ attack on DADT repeal affecting “unit cohesion” not supported by facts”
See this site http://mediamatters.org/research/201002030010
Yes, it’s you Conservatives who’re blowing things concerning the effect of openly gay men and women in the military, way out of proportion.
The ONLY people who should be concerned about Gay Marriage are gay people. They are the ones entering into it. If you don’t support Gay Marriage, then don’t marry another consenting adult of the same sex. It’s really more of a common sense solution.
If you are one who is concerned about the sanctity of heterosexual marriage, then help straight people from getting divorced. The divorce rate is higher than 50%. Straight marriages are really the ones straight people should be focusing on. This issue has only to do with marriage and nothing else. It had nothing to do with having sex, raising children, spreading disease, abortion, politics, religion, polls, or statistics. It only has to do with two consenting adults who are in love and want to get legally married. That’s the bottom line. It is only about their lives and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the lives of heterosexuals.
Wanna bet? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
Absolutely correct Will, “It is only about ‘the lives of gays’ and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the lives of heterosexuals”. this is exactly what I’ve been trying to get the HARD-HEADED FUNDIES posting here, to understand. But, of course, the Laws of Logic must be way beyond their grasp!!!
These, to me, are really RESPECTABLE CONSERVATIVES. UK folk btw!!!
“EU aid to African countries must be reciprocated with progress on gay rights, one of London’s Conservative MEP has said.
The demand follows the death of Ugandan gay rights activist David Kato following a newspaper campaign which published his name and photograph next to the headline ‘hang them’.
Charles Tannock, foreign affairs and human rights spokesman for the UK Conservative delegation, said he brought up the case at in the European parliament last week.
“This is the direct result of the hatred and hostility towards Uganda’s LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual] community, whipped up by certain hard-line parliamentarians in that country,” he told politics.co.uk.
“Twice in the past year we have lambasted the outrageous attempts by some MPs in Uganda to mandate the death penalty for the so-called crime of same-sex activity.
“I am sure that many of my London constituents are deeply concerned about the European Union giving financial aid to a country where such disgusting sentiments are not only tolerated but sometimes apparently officially condoned,” Mr Tannock added”
Thumbs up for the UK Members of Parliament.
See, http://www.politics.co.uk/news/foreign-policy/eu-african-aid-should-depend-on-gay-rights-progress–$21387414.htm
Wow…… Home Depot is already having to closes stores around the country and now your calling for a boycott? More jobs down the tubes, another American company gone! It’s to late for this country, it’s already passed the event horizon of the black hole to economic oblivion!
Are YOU prepared?
Study Shows Born-Again Christians Have Smaller Brains
“Born-again Christian who have been wondering all these years just why they are so different from the rest of the crowd may now have an answer via a new study out of Duke University Medical Center. Researchers funded by the National Institutes of Health and the Templeton Foundation found that individuals who identify themselves as “born-again” Christians tend to have smaller brains than Protestants who claim no such experience.”
Well, see, I told you so, a long time ago already. Isn’t it a scream, isn’t it just totally HILARIOUS???
http://thenewamerican.com/culture/family/7653-study-shows-born-again-christians-have-smaller-brains
That is because we can get MORE done with LESS- you fool!
Ha, ridiculous pea-brained cave man, what have you Christians accomplshed then, in the course of thousands of years of exactly the same old lies and deceit, over and over and over again? Nothing, absolutely Nada. You’ve got nothing to show for yourselves but a whole lot of empty rambling about everything your Lady’s got in store for you and for us who happen to look and see right through your Idiotic Fairy Tales. Don’t make me laugh; you know very well that you’re going nowhere with your endless whining and yapping about the sorry state of our country and the world at large today. You can always jump off one of those bridges around town if you’re so fully dissatisfied with your life right now. Get on with it!
Remember Frederick, we all love you – so does God!
Amen and Amen.
Right on!
Ha…… I want some of what your smoking! It’ll take a world ending event to pry the american sheeple away from American Idol!
Illinois Gay Families Celebrate Start of Civil Unions
AND WE GLADLY, GLADLY CELIBRATE THIS OCCASION WITH THEM. Good work Guys and Gals
http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=120286
Great, Great, Great news,
Worldwide Trend: Gays Gaining Acceptance
See here,
http://www.edgeboston.com/news/international///120198/worldwide_trend:_gays_gaining_acceptance
This (AFP) article says that the study identified 27 nations where acceptance of sexual minorities had increased, and four–Russia, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, and Latvia, (almost) all formerly part of the now-defunct Soviet Union–where anti-gay sentiment had intensified.
Let’s be grateful for those 27 positive countries!!!
Yup,
Hell has plenty of vacancy!
Are you sure you are not insane? Are you an ostrich? Do you have your head buried in the sand? Did you ever look and see what those countrues are like these days? They are shells of their former selves. Those countries have fallen by the wayside as they accept immoral things, like being gay, and not sticking to their moral values, they take them from Christianity. I’m glad I live in this Christian nation, where gays aren’t accepted as the norm or a good lifestyle. I know they aren’t here in Indiana. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
“They lie, they cheat, they deceive, they vilify, they ridicule, and they fear monger …” (???)
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, the really unbelievable irony of things. Have you (re)read your own beautiful and very Lovingly Christian one-liner, here above? No? well, here ya go once again: “HELL HAS PLENTY OF VACANCY! Fantastic, eh? A very loving, civil (…..) statement, fully in line with the very compassionate mentality characterizing that pearl of yours: your bible…… (Remember that hilarious story we discussed a while ago about the she-bears “MAULING” those 42 young louts? How incredibly compassionate, eh, of your LadyLord to temporarily render those predators tooth and clawless………. Btw, that “Mauling” still brings a nicely thunderous laugh to my big mouth. What a joke.
Oh yes, lest I forget, those 27 gay-friendly countries undoubtedly represent the 21st century SODOMS AND GOMORRAHS, don’t you think? So, what will it be this time around? Fire and brimstone didn’t help terribly much, because now we’re still stuck with a whole bunch a Sodoms. But ok, what the hell (pun not intended, well just a tiny bit….), if you’re still enjoying your 7th day of rest and peace, you won’t be too strongly inclined to come up with something truly imaginative and effective, of course! But perhaps your LadyLord will invite both of you, Billie and Sookie, aside for a fine piece of creative advice!!! After all, Uncle Abe (i.e. good old Abraham) shared a plate full of the tastiest pancakes with the LL, sharing insights with Him/Her regarding the then current state of the universe. So, why shouldn’t you be THE CHOSEN, right now, right? Well then……. I’ve already bought my prayer rug, you know……
Very interesting site bearing the title of Internet Infidels. Here is part of their “Mission Statement,
Life is short. Nevertheless, billions of people invest incalculable hours making fruitless pleas to nonexistent gods, participating in lavish rituals with no tangible effects, and whittling away tight budgets to support extravagant religious institutions or “spiritual advisors.” Worse still, antiquated religious ideas lead people to impose needless hardships on themselves and others, to rationalize discrimination and other forms of mistreatment, and to hasten environmental destruction because they believe that “the end of the world” is imminent anyway. And for every outward manifestation of wasteful, counterproductive, and even downright harmful activity motivated only by religious belief, there are countless instances that are not nearly so obvious.
Religious belief has exacted a toll on people’s emotional well-being as well. Just how much energy has been drained searching for meaning where none is to be found, or been squandered on false hopes and unwarranted fears? How many believers have agonized over the uncertain destination of their loved ones after death? How many have struggled to discern exactly what they did to displease God after falling victim to a natural disaster? How many have been tormented trying to make sense of why God allows terrible things to happen to good people? In the absence of any clear revelation about what God wants us to do, how many have fretted about whether their own actions or beliefs, or those of the people dearest to them, are enough to avoid hellfire?
How many of those who have lost their faith in old age have looked back at all the missed opportunities, the roads not taken, the life that could have been, had they not been born in a religious household, or had they abandoned religion in their younger days! Imagine how deep the regrets must be for the former missionary, seminary student, or long-time minister after realizing that this life is probably the only life that one will ever have
http://www.infidels.org/infidels/
You’ll also find numerous links to highly timely and interesting sites advocating the AGNOSTIC/ATHEIST cause. ENJOY, ENJOY
Atheist Teen Overruled by Majority on Graduation Prayer
Read about this very courageous ATHEIST teenager who had to deal with Christian “bloodhounds”
http://www.freethunk.net/articles/uncategorized/atheist-teen-overruled-by-majority-on-graduation-prayer-2220
As with any situation PERSPECTIVE plays an important role in establishing truth. The REAL hero here was senior Laci Rae Mattice who apparently broke protocol and started reciting the Lord’s Prayer. She said, “I respect the beliefs of other people, but I feel that I can’t go on without giving glory to my Lord today.” And my friends, truth be told this is just the beginning of the momentum, Christian students around the country are defying directives,threats by Atheists,ACLU. So, Lets’ give glory to our Lord today!!!!
So, come on all you Christian “Bloodhounds” – let’s bark so we can be heard from one coast to the other!!
Why is this even a issue? My bible say one man and one woman.
Bob,
My friend, the Bible also tells us that there will be a time where the god of this world uses DECEPTION to pervert natural sexual inclinations of men and women- making it appear NATURAL. Man will forsake logic for the pursuit of what he perceives to be freedom – when it reality – it is nothing but BONDAGE. I could go on… but I think you know the rest of the story.
Religious Liberty? Ha, no, it’s not simply “Liberty” that’s the main and decisive issue here. It’s (the threat of) COERCION that’s been bothering both parties (the Gay Liberationists vs the Christian Fundamentalists). Both parties claim their so-called Constitutional Rights, but quite obviously there’s a deeply and rigidly rooted conflict of interest here. The Fundamentalists act as if we’re still smack into the 1950’s, as if American – or say, even Western Culture at large – hasn’t changed a single bit since then. They’re, apparently, taking the technological revolutions fully for granted and gladly and greedily accept the realities of the space age, the age of (ultra-rapid and ultra-sophisticated) information and communication, the age of unheard-of progress in medicine and other exact sciences. But our social (or rather socio-cultural) policies should still be totally rigidly guided by the dictates of a two thousand year old book (!?). Well, this is precisely where the (Feminist, Gay and Ethnic) Liberation Movements part company with the Fundy Dinosaur Community. But sadly, the total absurdity of this state of affairs: trying to press and push and force 21st century American citizens into the stifling mold of an completely archaic Middle Eastern morality, will take centuries to seep through the Fundamentalists’ thick and heavy skulls. So be it.
To my gay friends I say: brothers and sisters, keep those war drums beating as loudly as possible. Keep in mind that we’ve demolished our damned closets decades ago already. Not a single moron can force us to rebuild ‘em, ever. Let these doggies yep as desperately as they do now, we won’t be fazed anymore. Those days are definitely OVER, thank goodness.
sorry, yap
Apparently anything goes. Life is just a bowl a cherries. I like cherries. Can I marry a bowl of cherries? I think it was in Pakistan a man was forced to marry a goat because he was having sex with the goat. NAMBLA types have sex with their own sons and pass them around to their friends apparently! Does that mean they can marry their own sons? There are pedophiles that prey on children. In some Arab countries and anywhere else, Muslims marry children( well under the age of seventeen (It’s OK check their Koran) If they have period they are old enough to marry. Does this mean we can marry children? Where does the insanity stop? Does anyone know that often the root cause of homosexuality is caused by rejection? Sons don’t bond with their Fathers, Daughters don’t bond with their Mothers. They spend the rest of their lives trying to fix their rejection by doing something the causes even more rejection. Some are confused and coerced by others. Others it is just any port in a storm. Just because someone is delusional doesn’t mean we have to agree with them and justify their delusion.
*****”Just because someone is delusional doesn’t mean we have to agree with them and justify their delusion.”**************
Couldn’t have said it better myself Mike.
Oh, one has to laugh and cry almost at the same time when contemplating this really totally Imbecile Controversy over the issue of Prayer or no prayer in Public Schools. It’s all such typically Middle Class American Brainlessness. Good grief, if someone doesn’t want to pray allow him or her to leave the class-room or just look “the other way” or out the window, or whatever. Is there any other country in the West, where such an issue is ever publicly raised? The only relevant point, of course, is that no one can EVER be FORCED to pray or pledge or do anything related to any type of faith. It’s a Free Country, after all, or isn’t it???
‘Oh that Thou would bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast [territory], and that Thine hand might be with me, and that Thou would keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me!’ And God granted him that which he requested.” 1 Chron 4:10
Well, well, well, Billie, our dearest Professor of Nonsensicality, now I’m really beginning to believe you must be suffering from some tox induced delirium or a group of Super Wealthy, Totally Outraged Fundies is paying you thousands of precious dollars to spew all your ramblings here on this Forum. So, um, quite understandably, you really don’t need a job, like the rest of us! Oh, I’m so jealous, that you still manage to find a few minutes a day to eat, drink, sleep, do your fitness exercises, PRAY (UHUM……), play with your (grand)children, etc, etc! Yours must be an ultra modern (…..) household indeed, with mommy GLADLY doing all the hyper challenging (…….) chores [beds, meals, dishes, laundry], whilst pops’s tapping his dear Christian life away all godforsaken day long. Quite obviously, to safe our great country from all those damn Liberal Sodomites there in DC … Phfewwww, wow!!!
Btw, Billie, did you know there’s still a whole lot of hope for our country, if not this whole damned planet, because I’m quite sure you’ll run for OFFICE in 2012. Oooooh, what a relief will that be: at long last we’ll see someone scurrying about in the “Oval Room”, who really, really, really knows his stuff: a Master Macro-economist, an unbelievably brilliant administrator and negotiator and diplomat, you name it. Oh yes, how could I forget: a champion of strictly biblical Mores. Before long, we’ll be delivered from all the immoral Fags, Illegal Immigrants and Big Mouth Pro-Choice Feminists thanks to the Crisp New Secretary Of Stoning, who’ll undoubtedly teach these scumbags a fine lesson, once and for all Hooray, hooray, hooray…….
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Billie our SAVIOUR for President……..
Oh yes, one more thing, I’ve already picked your dreamed of Vice P for you: The one and only Great Hero-Patriot Dr. Samurai. Oh, what a glorious Inauguration Day that’ll be!
I’m already shedding buckets full of tears Billie and I haven’t even read this paragon of Great American Literature and, of course, lest we forget, Sound EMPIRICAL Research. Oh, I can’t wait for this undoubtedly fantastic book to pollute (um, sorry, grace) my mailbox and coffee table………
Myths about LIBERALISM cherished by many Right Wing Conservative Christias
http://atheism.about.com/od/godlessamericaamericans/p/GodlessRight.htm
” Christian Right v Godless Liberalism: Why Do Christians Attack Godless Liberals?
Myth (#1):
Are all atheists just communists? Does atheism cause communism?
Response:
A common complaint made by theists, typically those of the fundamentalist variety, is that atheism and/or humanism are essentially socialist or communist in nature. Thus, atheism and humanism should be rejected since socialism and communism are evil. Evidence indicates that bigotry and prejudice towards atheists in America is due in no small part to anti-communist activism by conservatives Christians in America, so this claimed connection has had serious consequences for American atheists.
Perhaps the first thing we should note is the automatic and almost unconscious assumption made on the part of such Christians that their religion is somehow equivalent with capitalism. Any observer of America’s Christians Right will not be the least bit surprised by this because conservative Christianity and right-wing politics have become almost synonymous.
Many Christians today act as if certain pre-specified political and economic positions are necessary in order to be a “good Christian.” No longer are faith in Jesus and God sufficient; instead, one must also have faith in market capitalism and small government. Since so many of these Christians carry the attitude that anyone who disagrees with them on any one point must disagree with them in everything, it isn’t surprising that some assume that an atheist or humanist must be a communist. This isn’t helped by the fact that Communism in the Twentieth Century has been almost entirely atheistic in nature
Communism is not, however, inherently atheistic. It is possible to hold communist or socialist economic views while being a theist and it isn’t at all uncommon to be an atheist while staunchly defending capitalism — a combination often found among Objectivists and Libertarians, for example. Their existence alone demonstrates, without question, that atheism and communism are not the same thing.
But while the original myth has been refuted, it is interesting to look and see if perhaps the Christians who made it have gotten things backwards.
Perhaps it is Christianity which is inherently communistic? After all, there is nothing in the gospels which even so much as suggests a divine preference for capitalism. On the contrary, quite a bit of what Jesus said directly supports many of the emotional foundations of socialism and even communism. He specifically said that that people should give all they could to the poor and that “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Oh no, not that false dumbass Ann Coulter again, please. Never see or heard a more superfiial moron ever in my life. She knows everything about the military, of course. She’s been there and, above all, she’s thoroughly done her research…… This woman is such a totally laughable idiot, with her idea, for instance, that women shouldn’t be allowed to vote. What a piece of absolutely despicable crap this joke of a human being is, really. No, if this piece of garbage proves one thing at all, than it’s the hopeless poverty and the complete lack of conceptual creativity of the current “Conservative Movement”. Uggh, in fact the very sight of this pseudo-intellectual chunk of outhouse waste makes me want to puke! Down with her, once and for all
Wanna have a mighty good laugh? (Well, laugh…….). Just take a peek at this wiki site,
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ann_Coulter
sorry, I must have been so outraged: should be seen and superficial
Oh yes, and consider this incredible Coulter stupid nonsense.
” The soldierly bond gets confused if some guys think their comrades are hot or if they suspect their superior is having a relationship with a fellow soldier.
End of quote
Duhh, the point, of course, is not the effect of “being attracted to someone.” The core issue here is REVEALING ONE’S “SEXUAL IDENTITY”, which is something totally different altogether. Because, Miss Einstein Coulter, attractiveness is a mental phenomenon, not a behavioral one. Whether one chooses to be open or not, one’s sexuality or sexual feelings will – in all probability – not the least be affected. So, this Coulter nonsense is really too ridiculoous to even consider for two seconds. Besides, look at the Israeli army which is totally, but really totally relaxed about this whole issue of “sexual preferences”. Ever heard of any problems down there? No, of course you haven’t. The issue is a typically Conservative American headless triviality, nothing else.
This is only a partial list of President Obama’s accomplishments in the past 2½ years.
And he did it all despite the massive animosity and boycotting by Conservative Racist Whiners.
http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments/
From Robert P. Watson, Ph.D. Coordinator of American Studies, Lynn University.
“I thought it was a good time to give him the kudos he deserves after the slug fests he’s been through over the past year”:
1. Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending
2. Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices
3. Instituted enforcement for equal pay for women
4. Beginning the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq
5. Families of fallen soldiers have expenses covered to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB
6 Ended media blackout on war casualties; reporting full information
7. Ended media blackout on covering the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB; the media is now permitted to do so pending adherence to respectful rules and approval of fallen soldier’s family
8. The White House and federal government are respecting the Freedom of Information Act
9. Instructed all federal agencies to promote openness and transparency as much as possible
10. Limits on lobbyist’s access to the White House
11. Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration
12. Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date
13. Phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren’t even used or needed in Iraq/Afghanistan
14. Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research
15. Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research
16. New federal funding for science and research labs
17. States are permitted to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards
18. Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants) after years of neglect
19. Funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools
20. New funds for school construction
21 The prison at Guantanamo Bay is being phased out
22. US Auto industry rescue plan
23. Housing rescue plan
24. $789 billion economic stimulus plan
25. The public can meet with federal housing insurers to refinance (the new plan can be completed in one day) a mortgage if they are having trouble paying
26. US financial and banking rescue plan
27. The secret detention facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are being closed
28. Ended the previous policy; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with theGeneva Convention standards
29. Better body armor is now being provided to our troops
30. The missile defense program is being cut by $1.4 billion in 2010
31. Restarted the nuclear nonproliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols
32. Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic
33. Reengaged in the agreements/talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions
34. Visited more countries and met with more world leaders than any president in his first six months in office
35. Successful release of US captain held bySomali pirates; authorized the SEALS to do their job
36. US Navy increasing patrols off Somali coast
37. Attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles
38. Cash for clunkers program offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars; stimulated auto sales
39. Announced plans to purchase fuel efficient American-made fleet for the federal government
40. Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children
41. Signed national service legislation; expandednational youth service program
42. Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return home to visit loved ones
43. Ended the previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions
44. Expanding vaccination programs
45. Immediate and efficient response to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters
46. Closed offshore tax safe havens
47. Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals
48. Ended the previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back
49.. Ended the previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry’s predatory practices
50. Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources
51. Lower drug costs for seniors
52. Ended the previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings
53. Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel
54. Improved housing for military personnel
55. Initiating a new policy to promote federal hiring of military spouses
56. Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals
57 Increasing student loans
58. Increasing opportunities in AmeriCorps program
59. Sent envoys to Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy
60. Established a new cyber security office
61. Beginning the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force; this includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc.
62. Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts
63. Ordered a review of hurricane and natural disaster preparedness
64. Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient
65. Students struggling to make college loan payments can have their loans refinance
And now,read this and be surprised
Fewer couples embrace marriage; more live together
By Haya El Nasser and Paul Overberg, USA TODAY
Updated 3d ago
Marriage is losing ground to a grinding economic slowdown that has prompted more couples to live together without tying the knot.
The share of couples who are not married has risen in many places but is highest in areas that offer many people grim prospects for a better financial future: old industrial cities and the Mississippi Delta.
Unmarried couples made up 12% of U.S. couples in 2010, a 25% increase in 10 years, according to Census data out Thursday.
Two-thirds of the cities with the largest shares of unmarried couples were in the Northeast and Midwest, up from about half a decade earlier.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2011-05-26-census-unmarried-couples_n.htm
“Has the state legislative fight for marriage equality lost momentum?
No, not according to Evan Wolfson, executive director of the National Freedom to Marry Group”,
http://www.dallasvoice.com/york-recognize-gay-marriage-1075498.html
Let’s see, the date of your article is May 5, 2011. as of today there is a count of 7 undecided votes – there were 8 as of today,one switched his vote to NO. So I do believe that puts the odds more in favor of New Yorkers defeating it again!
Rodin, You are a sick SOB.
What stupid nonsense is this again about raising taxes, or redistributing (billion dollar) wealth, for that matter? being “unbiblical?” Did not your own saviour Jesus once say: Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s? And,” in Matthew 19:23–24 (NKJV)Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
So, material wealth (and most assuredly extreme wealth) and what you call “God’s Kingdom” do most certainly not mix very well!!!
Tax burdening has absolutely nothing to do with “Theft”, but with correct governing and SOCIAL JUSTICE (not socialism!!!!!). It’s been done all through history, as you should know!
See this site about “Redistribution of Wealth in your Bible”
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71846
And remember: it’s better to give than to receive (ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS)! It’s right there in your much admired bible.
“Gay Teen Suicide
Is Teen Suicide a Bigger Risk if You are GLBT?
Teen suicide is a pretty heavy subject. Sadly GLBT adolescents may be even more likely to commit or attempt suicide than are straight teens.
However, it is important to realize that being GLBT itself is not a risk factor for suicide. Rather, the negative treatment that many GLBT teens endure can lead to suicidal feelings.
The GLBT suicide prevention organization, the Trevor Project explains that, “Sexual orientation and gender identity alone are not risk factors for suicide. However, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning (LGBTQ) youth face many social factors that put them at higher risk for self-destructive behaviors, including suicide.”
http://gayteens.about.com/od/sexuality/f/suicide.htm
Study, educate yourselves. consider this,
50 Awesome Atheistic/Agnostic Blogs
Simply put, atheism is the doctrine or belief that there is no God. Agnosticism holds a very similar definition, and promotes the belief that one can neither prove nor disprove God’s existence. In a world where religious belief and the sanctitiy of deities are the driving force behind culture and social policy, it is not surprising that so many people are unfamiliar with the atheist and agnostic perspectives.
This list of blogs was created for individuals interested and learning more about atheists, agnostics, what they believe, and what they don’t believe. The blogs included on this list provide great information while also offering a unique and interesting perspective. These blogs were chosen because they are updated frequently, are easy to navigate, and provide an open and honest opinion.
http://www.onlinecourses.net/best-atheistic-blogs
I really don’t see much confidence in your promoting this Atheistic Blog site, when ,”NOT ONE” of your Atheistic elite (including you) has responded to at least one of the “10 Questions for Thinking Atheists” ,I posted on June 2,2011 @ 9:03 PM. Still waiting…..
CORRECTION: Should read June 2,2011 9:03 AM
And, These are particularly interesting and timely
DEBUNKING CHRISTIANITY
: Debunking Christianity combines philosphy, atheism, and a secular view of the world to create a blog that provokes critical thinking and deep questioning. The blogger’s expressed intent is to change the religious landscape, one person at a time
DWINDLING IN UNBELIEF: An unbeliever shares his thoughts about the Bible (the principle text of Christianity), the Qur’an (the principle text of Islam), and the book of Mormon (the principle text of Mormonism). The blogger goes pretty in-depth in his analyses of the texts, and he presents both religious and scholarly debates.
DEEP THOUGHTS (VERY,VERY GOOD, THIS ONE): Deep Thoughts is an atheist blog that explores religion, atheism, clergy sexual abuse, hypocrisy, and a number of other topics that the blogger finds interesting. The blog has a tab called “Pedopastors” in which the blogger highlights a running list of clergymen who have been arrested for suspicious sexual activity with children. This section of the blog was created to emphasize the ILLEGITIMATE AND HYPOCRITICAL NATURE OF CHRISTIAN MORALITY
ENJOY!!!
And Now For This, Backward Conservative Americans
The Story About Gay Marriage in Canada: There is No Story
(i.e. GAY MARRIAGE WAS INSTIGATED WITHOUT MUCH ADO!!!!!!!). This what I call a REALLY CIVILIZED COUNTRY)
“The United States is still twisted in paroxysms of social angst over the issue of family equality for gays and lesbians, but our neighbors to the north have long since settled the issue, granting marriage equality to all–and then getting on with life, with little hue and cry and no great social disruptions.
Although anti-gay factions in the U.S. charge that marriage equality would present a long list of dangers to religious freedom, families, and civilization itself, Canada has proven that with sensible and equitable laws in place, everyone’s rights can remain intact.
Such was the gist of a Mar. 11 Vancouver Sun article titled, “Note to Americans: Canada resolved the contentious issue four years ago and the sky did not fall.”
The article noted, “With almost four years having passed since we resolved the same-sex marriage question, it’s hard to remember there was controversy in the first place.”
THE CANADIANS, AT LEAST, AND MANY OTHER CIVILIZED NATIONS AROUND THE GLOBE, DO LIVE IN THE 21st CENTURY!!!
I have emphasized before, AMERICA is NOT other countries. We DO NOT follow the lead of other countries and their predilection to perversion. If anything, other countries follow ( or at one time they did) our leads. Homosexuality may never find a comfortable resting place on our shores – despite how militant the homosexual voice gets. As for those Canadian proponents of SSM – Hell doesn’t discriminate when it comes to ones nationality!
And, as we all know, it’s been raining FIRE AND BRIMSTONE all over Canada the past seven years………..
” A wise man sees evil coming and is prudent, a fool rushes headlong and dies.”
Yes, and an intelligent, COURAGEOUS and creative man sees evil (such as Conservatism) coming and FIGHTS it! A different plate of goodies altogether, eh?
ANOTHER CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE IDIOT MERCILESSLY EXPOSED
Read this:
Michele Bachmann’s Stance on Evolution Demolished by High School Student
Michele Bachmann, as virtually everyone knows, is currently deciding whether she’s going to make a run for the Tea Party, oops, I meant to say, Republican, nomination for president. What most don’t know, though, is that her educational policies are being challenged by an amazing high school student from Baton Rouge, La. You should get to know this student, Zack Kopplin, and his efforts because he’s likely to make a difference.
I’ve written about Zack previously because both his story and his commitment are incredibly impressive. As I first noted, he recently began an effort to repeal an atrocious stealth-creationism law in Louisiana. The law, the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008, encourages attacks on evolution to be taught in Louisiana’s public schools under the banner of critical thinking. This is the only state law of its sort in the country and, as Zack so well points out, Louisiana students interested in science are being done a huge disservice by its very existence.
Zack hasn’t been content to simply complain about an educationally irresponsible law, however. His organizational skills have been nothing short of phenomenal and he’s gathered a collection of supporters second to none. His repeal effort has been endorsed by the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the largest general science organization in the world with over 10 million members; the National Association of Biology Teachers, the country’s main organization for biological educators; The Clergy Letter Project, an organization of more than 14,000 clergy and scientists recognizing that religion and science need not be in conflict; as well as a host of other scientific groups including the American Institute for Biological Sciences, The American Society for Cell Biology, the Society for the Study of Evolution, The Society of Vertebrate Paleontology and The American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. Additionally, the New Orleans City Council voted unanimously to support the repeal.
Zack’s work didn’t stop there. He wrote a petition that was adopted as Change.org’s featured one of the week where it has amassed more than 65,000 supporters. And, as I reported in April, in his most extraordinary effort, he collected the endorsement of 43 individuals who won a Nobel Prize in Science.
Which brings me back to Michele Bachmann. Not only is Bachmann a fan of creationism and its anti-intellectual offshoot, intelligent design, she’s made some outlandish claims about the pseudoscientific subject. For example, she’s asserted, “there is a controversy among scientists about whether evolution is a fact … hundreds and hundreds of scientists, many of them holding Nobel prizes, believe in intelligent design.”
(High School Student) Zack has now challenged Bachmann on her claims. Using a poker analogy and the huge number of scientists who have endorsed evolution, in general, and his repeal effort, in particular, Zack has written, “Congresswoman Bachmann, I see your ‘hundreds’ of scientists, and raise you millions of scientists.”
Given the strength of the hand he has, he doesn’t stop there.
For the next hand, I raise you 43 Nobel Laureate scientists. That’s right: 43 Nobel Laureate scientists have endorsed our effort to repeal Louisiana’s creationism law. … Congresswoman Bachmann, you claim that Nobel Laureates support creationism. Show me your hand. If you want to be taken seriously by voters while you run for President, back up your claims with facts. Can you match 43 Nobel Laureates, or do you fold?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-zimmerman/michele-bachmans-stance-o_b_868771.html
Sorry,Zack, but you are trying to compete against the Creator of the Game. YOU LOSE – son, don’t you realize that your arms (as well as the rest of humanity) are to short to box with God!
A MUST READ
42 Nobel Laureates Work to Replace Creationism With Science in Louisiana
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-zimmerman/41-nobel-laureates-work-t_b_851821.html
On 15 April, State Senator Karen Carter Peterson introduced SB 70. Her bill is as simple as it is critically important. If enacted, SB 70 would repeal the embarrassingly misnamed Louisiana Science Education Act (LSEA), a piece of legislation that was enthusiastically endorsed by creationists and that has opened the doors of Louisiana’s classrooms to pseudoscience.
Senator Peterson’s efforts to repeal LSEA have just received a huge boost: 42 Nobel Laureates from across the various fields of science have sent a letter to the Louisiana legislature urging them to vote to repeal LSEA. They state their case clearly right from the opening paragraph:
As Nobel Laureates in various scientific fields, we urge you to repeal the misnamed and misguided Louisiana Science Education Act (LSEA) of 2008. This law creates a pathway for creationism and other forms of non-scientific instruction to be taught in public school science classrooms.
Their letter continues by noting that attempts to bring creationism into Louisiana schools are not new, and that opposition by Nobel Laureates is also not new. Indeed, an equally impressive array of Nobel prize winners signed an amicus brief in the Edwards v. Aguillard U.S. Supreme Court case. In that case, the Supreme Court sided with the Laureates and ruled Louisiana’s “Balanced Treatment for Creation-Science and Evolution-Science in Public School Instruction” act unconstitutional.
It is amazing that now, 24 years later, with the evidence supporting evolutionary theory having grown exponentially with major advances having occurred in genetics, molecular biology, developmental biology and paleontology, to name just a few fields, the attacks on science education from non-specialists remain unabated.
The current letter by the Nobel Laureates ends as persuasively as it began:
Scientific knowledge is crucial to twenty-first-century life. Biological evolution is foundational in many fields, including biomedical research and agriculture. It aids us in understanding, for example, how to fight diseases like HIV and how to grow plants that will survive in different environments. Because science plays such a large role in today’s world and because our country’s economic future is dependent upon the United States’ retaining its competitiveness in science, it is vital that students have a sound education about major scientific concepts and their applications.
We strongly urge that the Louisiana Legislature repeal this misguided law. Louisiana students deserve an education that will allow them to compete with their peers across the country and the globe.
The Nobel Laureates are not alone in calling for repeal of LSEA. With SB 70 not even a week old as of this writing, it has already been endorsed by the Louisiana Association of Biology Educators as well as their “parent” organization, the National Association of Biology Teachers.
Aw, seems to me that someone is nervous about their clay god of science not being able to stand the heat of the kiln of creationism’s competition – perhaps the students would get an EDUCATION and we can’t have that! Can we?
Proposed bill would effectively ban US Catholic adoption agencies
Very good legislative proposal!!!!!
A proposal in Congress would ban Catholic adoption agencies and undercut the needs of children by prohibiting discrimination on the basis of marital status or sexual orientation, two legislative experts say.
http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/US.php?id=3291
Read more: http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/US.php?id=3291#ixzz1OdFKGhAK
Common sense still goes on, as well as same sex couples, still in loving, healthy, monogamous, mature and long lasting relationships. Love is a wonderful thing. It something we need to share and show to everyone on the planet. May everyone be loved and feel loved no matter who you are.
Healthy? Monogamus? Long lasting? Strike three Tanner, you’re out!
I guess you’re way too busy with your particular brand of research to be aware of the fact that it’s true. I’ve been in one for 17 years and legally married in Canada for 5. However, you’re right about one things…I am out.
Peace!
June 7
Ex-GOP chief supports gay marriage in NY state
Ex-chairman of Republican National Committee pushes for gay marriage bill in NY state
(AP) — The former chairman of the Republican National Committee is pushing GOP senators in Albany to legalize gay marriage.
Former Chairman Ken Mehlman, who presided during the administration of President George W. Bush, says he met privately with several senators on Monday. But he wouldn’t say how many or who he spoke with.
The coward! But, anyway my GAY BROTHERS AND SISTERS: reason for HOPE. The GOP won’t let us down (?!)………..
http://www.newsday.com/news/ex-gop-chief-supports-gay-marriage-in-ny-state-1.2936227
I guess a false hope, is better than no hope.
And just what IS your purpose for posting all this information. Who are you trying to convince?
Ah yes, consider the following quote from the “essay” above,
“Forbidding debate about homosexual behavior in schools attacks our country’s rich tradition of encouraging the open examination of ideas. Sometimes that discourse is uncomfortable and even offensive, testing the very foundation of our identity. But in the end, it is the only way for the truth to prevail”………
Well now, here we’ve got a very interesting PARADOX, by implication. For, Conservative Christians are constantly reminding us that (school)children can (and will) be severely harmed through confrontations with material of a so-called lewd sexual nature. And, according to their logic, homosexuality is quite “self-evidently” tied in with “immorality”. So, how are we supposed to discuss homosexuality (as the author suggests), if we’re not allowed to bring the concretely sexual aspects of this phenomenon into our special discourse? Remember that children, in all probability, will keep asking questions directly related to the details of sexual conduct . Besides, children in our day and age aren’t the “ innocent and naïve cherubs” our parents and grandparents were involved with fifty to hundred years ago. Come on! Many, if not the majority of these critters, will bully their more or less “effeminate” playmates, precisely because they know exactly what’s going on in our clean American bedrooms. And, because their parents and/or other adults have been strewing innuendos concerning the (allegedly) “sick” or “disgusting” nature of homo-sex.
So please don’t insult our intelligence by suggesting that the instigation of “anti-bullying” measures (whatever these may be), will reinforce any unwarranted silencing strategy. One (= bullying) has absolutely nothing to do with the othe,r i.e. neutrally and respectfully debating a major socio-cultural issue: the reality of homosexuality.
Homosexuality as such is not even the main point here. No, it’s claiming the FREEDOM TO CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY OR NOT (in the classroom). And then the question arises whether teachers are free (or rather supposed) to be moralists. Well, as far as I’m concerned,
teachers aren’t pastors. A teacher is hired to inform, not to preach.
It’s quite the same as with science (particularly biology) education. Students “should” be informed about the various conceptions regarding the origin of nature, without being FORCED to choose between alternatives. But to be honest, I’m glad not be a biology teacher, considering the fact that I’m such a staunch advocate of the science of evolution. Amen.
Very instructive article about one of Christianity’s favorite concepts, HELL.
A must read imho
Article by Renoliz writing on Ex-Christian.net
http://new.exchristian.net/search/label/Renoliz
I did a couple of articles on the concept of Christian hell awhile back: “Hell – Revisited” and “Hell- Roots” and I said I wanted to do an article on why hell is such an abusive concept. Dr. Marlene Winell recently sent in a video where she discussed that Armageddon and the Rapture are terrorism. And they are. So is the concept of hell.
In the article Hell – Roots I said:
My beef is with the Christians who use eternal Hell- THIS IRRESPONSIBLE AND IMMORAL concept – and use it to great effect. Christians who do not believe in Hell are sent packing. They are scorned by most Christians. Most of Christianity wants Hell as a doctrine. They can’t give it up. It is a tool of control; a weapon to keep those who join the Church from leaving; a motivator to get the sheeples to do as the pastor/preacher/minister/priest desires. I have no doubt that there are sincere Christians but I also have no doubt that Hell is a baseball bat aimed at the knee caps of anyone who would dare walk away. It is this concept of Hell that makes so much of Christianity a destructive cult. And it is this concept of Hell that makes so much of Christianity an abusive cult. That is what I want to talk about the next time we meet on the topic of eternal Hell.
I stand by those words. Christianity is essentially a death cult. Christianity is a cult that glorifies human sacrifice. Christianity is a cult that focuses on the negative attributes of humans and forces reliance on invisible, imagined forces to mold us and our lives. Those invisible, imagined forces include Biblegod and Satan, hosts of angels and leagues of demons, holy spirits that must not be blasphemed and dark forces that pursue us.
The concept of eternal hell is irresponsible and immoral. It is just plain harmful to children and the adults they turn into. There is no evidence for an actual place of hell nor is there any evidence for its opposite, heaven. We have learned that under the earth are rocks, dirt and molten lava. There is no chamber where souls go to be tortured night and day for ever and ever. In the skies above there is only the planets, star and a whole host of amazing phenomenon like quasars, black holes, galaxies filled with stars with, presumably, planets orbiting many of those stars. No heaven with a god on a white throne.
Very good news,
Thomas DiNapoli (New York State Comptroller) Supports Legislation to Legalize Same-Sex Marriage in an HRC Video
Website http://www.osc.state.ny.us/press/releases/may11/052611.htm
The Human Rights Campaign (HRC) today released a video featuring New York State Comptroller Thomas P. DiNapoli expressing his strong support for legislation to legalize same-sex marriage.
“Common decency, human dignity and basic equality are still in short supply in New York,” DiNapoli said. “Until the relationships of gay men and lesbians are respected and recognized by New York State, we cannot call New York a true democracy. Gay couples should not have to jump through legal hoops just to protect their loved ones and their property. New York should legalize same-sex marriage now.”
“We’re very grateful to Comptroller DiNapoli for joining the mainstream majority of New Yorkers who endorse marriage equality,” said HRC’s Senior Strategist for New York, Brian Ellner. “Now is the time to get this done and let all loving and committed couples marry the person that they love.”
DiNapoli is a long time supporter of marriage equality and has repeatedly demonstrated his support since becoming comptroller in 2007. The New York State Common Retirement System recognized same-sex marriages conducted in Canada under the principle of comity, a legal doctrine that has been followed by New York State for many years. In September 2007, DiNapoli directed the Retirement System to recognize same-sex marriages conducted in any jurisdiction where they are legal.
As Comptroller, DiNapoli is sole trustee of the New York State Common Retirement Fund. He has consistently advocated for corporate recognition of same-sex partner rights in the work place and protection from corporate discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender. In addition, DiNapoli created a section of his Your Money New York Web site that provides lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) New Yorkers with essential resources to help achieve financial stability. The section offers access to reliable information on legal rights, on domestic partnerships and programs of interest to the LGBT community, and on other resources that can support individuals through tough economic situations.
For more information or to view the video, visit http://www.hrc.org/ny4marriage.
The Human Rights Campaign represents a force of more than one million members and supporters nationwide. As the largest national lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender civil rights organization, HRC envisions an America where LGBT people are ensured of their basic equal rights, and can be open, honest and safe at home, at work and in the community”
Sorry, Dinapoli’s political weight isn’t enough to motivate New Yorkers in this fight.
Read this about THE CRIME AND LIES OF “EX-GAY THERAPIES”
‘Sissy Boy’ Experiment Should Cause Reassessment of Reparative Therapy
June 8th, 2011
Conservative Christian psychologist Dr Warren Throckmorton says that the story of Kirk Murphy, aka “Kraig,” should provoke “a serious re-examination” of gay-to-straight therapy.
Yesterday, Box Turtle Bulletin and CNN broke the true story behind the “Sissy Boy” experiment, during which Kirk, then five, underwent psychiatric treatment intended to turn an effeminate, “gender-confused” homosexual-in-waiting into a masculine, heterosexual boy. That was in 1970. In 2003, aged 38 and gay, Kirk committed suicide. The experiment — which George Rekers hailed throughout his career as an “ex-gay” success — was a failure.
Now Throckmorton, a former advocate of reparative therapy, says the revelation calls all ex-gay therapy into question. He found that the “classic” reparative therapy volume A Parent’s Guide to Preventing Homosexuality, by Joseph Nicolosi, refers to Rekers over 20 times and cites the 1974 paper about Kirk — renamed “Kraig” — as evidence that such therapy can change children with “Gender Identity Disorder,” or GID. Nicolosi writes:
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2011/06/sissy-boy-experiment-should-cause-reassessment-of-reparative-therapy/
(YES BILL, THIS IS A REPORT FROM ONE OF YOURS: A CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE PSYCHOLOGIST, NOT A LIBERAL “GODLESS” IDIOT PSYCHOLOGIST, SUCH AS I AM……
Excellent point Frederick H! It is so sad what the “Professionals” did to Kirk. George Rekers was a total closet case according to his male escort. Rekers hired him to “help him with his luggage”. Maybe if Rekers had been true to himself, Kirk would still be alive and well.
Fredrick, I don’t find you “Godless” at all. I find you possess compassion and understanding without judgment. Bill on the other hand…..is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. I must say, he IS excellent at copy and paste! It appears he also has a lot of free time on his hands to find all these articles he posts. It make me wonder if Bill is even in a stable, committed relationship or just single, sad and alone. It’s just like with the “Sissy boy” article, it shows many are way too focused on how others should live their live and lose the focus on their own. I guess that’s what it mean when someone needs to “Get A Life”!
Peace and be well!
I find it interesting that someone such as Ann Coulter, who is a conservative, dresses unlike a conservative, in her slutty, short cocktail dresses. Maybe she is really a closet liberal. She liberally give her opinion. Just curious.
Very Telling Example of CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN HYPOCRISY
Read all of it here and laugh and cry
I for one really screamed with laughter when I read the final section of this report. Such typically Right-Wing Christian Stupidity and Insincerity. Really a Total Scream
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/05/george-rekers-anti-gay-ac_n_565142.html
George Rekers, Anti-Gay Activist, Caught With Male Escort ‘Rentboy’ [UPDATE: Escort Says Rekers Is Gay]
George Alan Rekers, a prominent anti-gay activist who co-founded the conservative Family Research Council, was caught returning from a 10-day trip to Europe with a male escort he found on Rentboy.com, which is exactly what it sounds like.
[UPDATE: The escort now says Rekers is indeed gay, and that Rekers paid him to perform daily nude body rubs during their European jaunt. "It's a situation where he's going against homosexuality when he is a homosexual," the young man told the New Times, adding that Rekers -- who repeatedly asked for a move he dubbed "The Long Stroke" -- ought to divorce himself from his many anti-gay associations.
Rekers has a new explanation for the trip. "I deliberately spend time with sinners with the loving goal to try to help them," he said in a statement posted on Facebook.
The Miami New Times promises more details and a profile of the escort, whom they codenamed "Lucien" but whose identity has been revealed elsewhere.]
Not to worry, Rekers told the Miami New Times, which broke the story: He claims he learned his 20-year-old companion was a prostitute only midway through their trip, they had no intimate contact, and he hired the young man only because recent surgery means “I can’t lift luggage”….. Read on and laugh!
(Ha Bill, did you enjoy this as much as I did? What a pathetic Don Quixote, eh?)
Frederick, the only thing that Rekers was concerned about when learning his 20-year-old companion was a prostitute is that he would probably have to pay him extra for “packing’ his luggage, as well as carrying the cases in and out and in and out and in and out of the hotels rooms.
Oh, Trever, great. Especially that bit about “LEARNING” that the boy was a whore. What a mighty Joker, this Rekers character. But I’m sure he’ll kneel before the altar, confess his horrible sin (…..) to the pastor, be absolved and see if he can find another altar boy to accompany him to his car, the poor, poor thing. Yeah Trever, sometimes those Christian Fundies (or whatever they call themselves) are much, much funnier than those so-called comedians you see on cable tv. Have a nice day, my friend.
“Oh that Thou would bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast [territory], and that Thine hand might be with me, and that Thou would keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me!’ And God granted him that which he requested.” 1 Chron 4:10
Wow! 4 more postings within 20 minutes. You have been a busy little beaver!
In all sincerity and kidding aside, peace to you and yours! May you possess understanding and compassion toward all others.
And to you too my Brother, may God’s love surround and protect you and yours!
In His Love,
Billl
ANOTHER SAD STORY FROM THE EX-GAY THERAPY SCAM FRONT
“Ex-Gay” Preaches “Freedom from Homosexuality”; His Eyes Tell A Different Story
Posted June 7th, 2011 by Evan Hurst
http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2011/06/16867/
This is Aaron Barton, a purported “ex-gay,” telling his story. The unedited video is here if you want to see it, but commentary has been added, to rebut every single one of Barton’s “ex-gay” talking points/lies, within the video, so that’s handy. If you know someone who is caught up in the “ex-gay” scam — perhaps you’re coming out of it and still know people on the inside — share this video with them. Here’s part of Matt Algren’s reaction:
I feel bad for Aaron Barton. He’s so sad, so bottled up, so ashamed. Really, this video, and his act of accepting applause for lying about who he is, is a form of mortification. The only difference between him and the medieval monks is that instead of flagellating his flesh, Barton abuses his soul.
Perhaps that’s the only way he can feel.
This is his life, the life he chose instead of standing up to his family’s shame and his church’s bigotry. And for that, I feel pity for Barton.
We do feel bad for people like Aaron. But as Matt points out, at this point Aaron is choosing to harm himself AND OTHERS by spreading this crap. He may be truly brainwashed into believing that what he is saying is true. He may be so terrified of the imaginary hell that people no more informed than he have passed down as a torture myth for generations upon generations. I don’t know. But the blood is still on the hands of any of those who try to pass off these sorts of lies. We already know there’s a bodycount involved. And this being Truth Wins Out, we also know what happens to people who have been through the “ex-gay” wringer,
Look at the screen cap for this video. His eyes look almost dead. That’s what “ex-gay” scams do, as they convince people to repress their very souls and replace all that with code words and catchphrases, talking points and lies. And now, having seen that, hit play and see if the eyes come to life.”
One would expect the Liberal viewpoint to (as it frequently does) miss the mark. So, let me connect the dots for you. The eyes are not of consequence to God – it is what is in a mans heart that counts!
Hmm,I wonder if God’s patience with our ignorance has worn a little thinner and He has finally removed the veil of protection from the United States???
Please visit the web-site and sign the petition presented to try and stop the Southern Baptist Convention continuing it filthy activities against the LGBT community.
http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/06/16922/
PHOENIX – A new coalition announced that it was starting a petition drive today on the GetEQUAL website calling on the Southern Baptist Convention to apologize for the harm its teachings have caused the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community.
The petition will be hand-delivered following an 8 A.M. ‘Teach-In’ outside the SBC’s annual meeting in Phoenix on Wednesday, June 15, a day that marks the 16th anniversary of that religious group’s historic apology to African Americans for supporting slavery and Jim Crow laws.
“We call on the Southern Baptist Convention to stop misusing the Bible to promote religion-based bigotry and start recognizing the enormous pain and suffering caused by its mistreatment of LGBT people, particularly vulnerable youth,” said Dr. Jack McKinney, a former Southern Baptist minister and spokesperson for Faith in America. “History has not been kind to the Southern Baptist Convention’s record on minorities and it is making the same awful mistake today by perpetuating abuse against gay people.”
“The anti-gay teachings of the Southern Baptist church NEARLY LEAD ME TO SUICIDE ,” said Dr. Jerry Stephenson, a former Southern Baptist minister and board member for Truth Wins Out. “I entered an ‘ex-gay’ ministry that falsely claimed I could change my sexual orientation and this led to a deep depression. Only after I accepted my true self was I able to reconcile my faith and sexual orientation. The Southern Baptist Convention needs to apologize because its policies are hurting real people.”
YOU totally miss the mark here, my dear. God has nothing to do with the issue concerned. You flaunt your MEDIEVAL MYTHS about God and her so-called loving attitude toward the human race, in order to keep your perverted grip on the gullible and the naive. But as you may very well know the Sick Emperor (your Conservative Christian Community) can show off his bloated, cancerous body just for so long. Activities such as this scandalous ex-gay nonsense are being exposed as completely fraudulent and misleading day by day. My only hope is for the State authorities (all over the country) to come up with some really effective measures so as to put an end to this absolutely pathological and criminal movement that’s especially harmful to our (LGBT) youngsters . Doesn’t your very own bible warns readers that the “devil” is prone to letting herself be cunningly known as an “Angel of Light”? Well, it looks like you and your ilk are fulfilling that “prophecy” really wholeheartedly!!!
Oops! Sorry about the extraneous list- “I’m FORGIVEN not PERFECT.”
Very moving and really intelligently conceived article regarding the much debated subject of “choice” in sexual orientation, by the novelist Patricia Nell Warren. Please pay special attention to her remarks related to the Stupid Conservative Idea that Sexual Orientation is more or less akin to choice of diet and (type) of exercise regime. (“Just follow our recipes and you’ll be fine, believe me”……..).
http://www.whosoever.org/v2Issue2/warren.html
Here’s an excerpt,
“After two decades of trying and failing to fit into heterosexuality, I finally chose a different way — that of coming out at age 37. Nobody actually held a gun to my head at any given moment. I had freely chosen to submit to the prevailing heterosexual pressures in our country. And I finally chose to end that submission.
Thirty-seven years of heterosexual indoctrination, and 16 years of experiencing heterosexual sex, did not fundamentally “change” me, in spite of my desperate efforts as both a Protestant and a Catholic to submit my will. Was there something innate in me — natural, genetic — that made me different, and helped me resist change? Whatever it was, it survived. When the prevailing winds bend a young tree long enough, it stays bent…but it doesn’t change its species. I was still that “different” being who became self-aware at age 13. But two decades of living as an adult heterosexual did powerfully “bend” me and give me the sensibilities of a bisexual. I am not the same kind of person as a young dyke of today, age 13, who discovers her love of females and boldly comes out in junior high and states that she likes only women.
When we talk about “choice” in sexual orientation, we have to distinguish between a PERSON’S FREELY CHOSEN, DEEPLY ABIDING, EXISTENTIAL SENSE OF “WHO I AM,” AND A PERSON’S CHOOSING TO SUBMIT TO SOCIAL PRESSURE IN ORDER TO SURVIVE. Over the centuries, many gay men and lesbians and bisexuals were coerced into functioning as heterosexuals, and they fooled everybody — church, family, friends, children, perhaps even themselves. If homosexuality has a genetic basis, then it would seem that these people passed so well because they discovered the power of changing a leopard’s spots.
People can be coerced in the opposite direction as well. Extremes of sexual re-conditioning can be seen in American men who go to prison young and spend 10 or 20 years there. When they get out, many are what the activist organization Stop Prison Rape calls “functioning bisexuals.” For years, they have conformed to the sex system in men’s jails and prisons, which includes “married” cellmates, gang rape of new young inmates, and systematic brutalization of gay inmates. These men were straight when they were first sentenced, but in prison many reach the point where they like sex with men. The film “American Me” gives us a graphic portrait of this type of man.
These grim facts of prison life create a nasty irony for the conservatives and church people who demand that young male criminals be put in adult prisons and punished by longer sentences. On the one hand, prison life shows that some homosexuals and bisexuals can be made, not born. On the other hand, in recent years, our prisons are responsible for massive coercive change in sexual orientation. Today the U.S.A. has the highest rate of incarceration for young males of any nation in the world. So we shouldn’t be surprised to see growing numbers of bisexuals — men who were the victims or perpetrators of savage sexual violence behind bars. When they get out, these men may never “identify” as active members of the gay community. But they may choose to go on seeking sexual and emotional satisfaction with other men, and they may do this in covert, even violent ways.”
Very Beautiful, MY CREDO,
What is Taoism’s view on homosexuality?
http://personaltao.com/taoism-library/questions/taoism-homosexuality/
QUOTE
“It doesn’t matter what Taoism or any other “religion” says about homosexual behavior. Religion doesn’t stop people from being people. People will always contain in their nature: all the Yin Yang aspects of humanity itself. Some people will embrace with acceptance homosexual activity as being natural. Others will find homosexual activity to be a threat to their own ego, their own sense of self and hence attack the behavior.
Some people will embrace a religion just to support their personal views and justify their feelings as right or wrong. Taoism steps away from this and reminds us we are human first. That in being human, we will have this wide range of nature to accept. THIS ISN’T A RELIGIOUS ISSUE NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS… HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN INTERPERSONAL ISSUE. PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS PEOPLE FOR BOTH GOOD AND BAD… LEARN TO UNDERSTAND PEOPLE, NOT RELIGION, TO HELP FIND PEACEFUL ANSWERS TO SUCH QUESTIONS.
Taoism is a practice of acceptance. People make the mistake to think that since Taoism is a religion of acceptance, that Taoism must declare a universal standard of acceptance. Taoism cannot declare such a single answer, since acceptance is a personal journey for each seeker to resolve, in their own terms for finding wholeness.
Questions such as acceptance of homosexuality are rooted in ego in scope. Ego based questions cannot be answered from a universal perspective: despite ego’s insistence that it’s universal in nature. So in the end, “ego” based questions must be answered by each person. Giving any single general answer would always create interpersonal conflict. To a Taoist this problem is easily avoided by leaving the question unanswered from a larger perspective. To recognize this question is personal in scope for each individual to balance in their life”
“And the wages for SIN – is still DEATH!”
I would be remiss in my efforts here if I didn’t extend credit to Procter & Gamble too- for their contribution to make Family Night such a success- here’s a “Job well done” to P&G !!!
And seeing that you yourself, Billie, are such a staunch champion of Straight, Old-Fashioned Christian Virtue, Death is surely not meant for you. Very lucky circumstance, as we, as well as coming generations of Americans would otherwise have to live without your untiring ranting and raving against Contemporary, Nationwide Decadence and Moral Decline. Think your lord’s already reserved a extra Special Treat for you up there, oh, sorry, down here, because the Angel of Death is going to trot way past your humble abode, forever.
By the way, I don’t what is come over me but reading your incredibly enlightening analyses……, I keep being reminded of that peculiar parable, somewhere in your bible, Luke 18:10 – 12, right?
“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: `God, I thank YOU THAT I AM NOT LIKE OTHER PEOPLE: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.`I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ Etc…..
Yeah, you know, I even begin to shake all over my frail, mortal body now, because I have the strong feeling the Second Coming of (Y)our Dear Lord has already been Gloriously realized with your very birth: Billie’s our New Savior. Don’t despair folks, He’s right here among us. Ain’t that fantastic!!! I’ll have a healthy glass of red wine tonight to celibrate. Thank you Billie!!!
Sorry for the typos, they’re coming from a humble heart…….
From Rochester Business Journal
Yeah, still more hope for a nice Victory for us gays on June 20 in N. Y.
Majority supports legalizing same-sex marriage in N.Y.
By – 6/10/2011
By a margin of 57 percent to 43 percent, respondents to this week’s RBJ Daily Report Snap Poll want New York to legalize same-sex marriage.
The state Assembly has passed marriage equality legislation in previous legislative sessions, but when it was put to a vote in the Senate in 2009, the measure was defeated, 38-24, with all Republicans voting against it. Gov. Andrew Cuomo has made marriage equality a legislative priority this session, but he has yet to introduce a bill.
Cuomo and other supporters say barring marriage equality denies same-sex couples and their families more than 1,000 federal and 700 state rights that are afforded to millions of New Yorkers.
A group of business backers says that aside from considerations of fairness, marriage equality is a matter of economic importance to the state. Nearly half of Snap Poll respondents—48 percent—say legalization of same-sex marriage in New York would have no impact on the state’s economic competitiveness, while 39 percent think it would increase competitiveness.
Opponents of the proposed legislation include New Yorkers for Constitutional Freedoms and the National Organization for Marriage, which argues that “gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose, (but) they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us.”
In a statewide Quinnipiac University poll conducted this month, voters supported legislation allowing same-sex couples to marry by the biggest margin ever, 58 percent to 36 percent.
More than 1,015 readers participated in this week’s poll, which was conducted June 6 and 7.
Should New York legalize same-sex marriage?
Yes: 57%
No: 43%
http://www.rbj.net/print_article.asp?aID=187811
That is old news, isn’t moving anybody to change their minds – sorry.
Oh gosh, of course, I forgot, sorry: you’re awfully near the source of it all, you’re “in the know”, as they say up here. But as far as I’ve been informed we’re still groping, we’ll just see. Everything is still undecided. Anyway, you can’t go on denying people their rights forever. Our train’s rolling annoyingly slowly (well, perhaps not even quite), but it’ll keep rolling, whatever you Fundies do. (Oh yes, I can already hear you saying, rolling on its way to hell. And you know what? I’m feeling that scorching heat right here and now behind my precious desk. Ain’t that a miracle?????).
I apologize for the length of the preceding article.But let’s remember that a pearl’s DESTINY originates as a minor irritation -which inevitably creates a thing of BEAUTY!
I, for one, have never put much faith in any polls, rumors,or amount of payoff monies when it comes to the public’s opinion on a political issue – the only thing that REALLY matters is the “VOTES”- a true reflection of “public sentiment”!
Patrick McAlvey: “I Was Harmed By ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy”
Watch this video rec. about a man who felt totally abused by a so-called Reparative therapist, who put him through all sorts of weird and in fact fully anti-therapeutic measures. Strongly reminds me of the Rekers story I posted about here a couple of days ago. Once again, this Ex-gay Idiocy is really harming a lot of men who are often under pressure from their (mostly conservative Christian) families and friends to do something about their sexual preference. An outrage, really. People can’t be warned strongly enough against the criminal activities of these fraudulent Christians, who, following their out and out sick religious agendas take advantage of particularly the desperate and the gullible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViaMczTmrkA&feature=player_embedded
McAlvey, only reaped what he sowed. Live a DEVIANT lifestyle then you should accept the consequences, which includes putting oneself at risk by placing your life in another persons care – so tell your sob stories to someone that CARES, because your really wearing the Reparative issue out. The only LEGITIMATE objection that you truly have, is that it is an ANTIDOTE to the homosexual poison infecting social morality today – thus creating a defection of your FORMER partners!
You Bill are such a totally hypocritical @..h… And you call yourself a Christian? Not a single micro-ounce of compassion. The only thing you have to offer here is Judgement and Condemnation. Finger-pointing ad nauseam. But, of course, that’s indeed fully in line with the Delusional Stinking Carrot you dangle in front of your Fellow-Americans, many of whom are either too stupid or too desperate to see right through your deceptive rambling, anyway. Yeah, talk about a message worn thin to the very marrow: your Fundamentalist Christian Mantra ranting: hell this, retaliation that, sin , sin, sin, a million times over. Your Holy Trinity, apparently. Jeez, what a pathetic, brain-dead heap of Bull you keep spreading and boring us with day by day by day. Reminds me of that mad German Doctor, Dr Mabuse, who filled his psychotic days with scribbling pages full of hallucinatory and conspiratorial memos. Well, in the same manner your verbal vomiting here is of no consequence at all and seems to solely contribute to the never-ending inflation of your already hopelessly bloated EGO. Because, that’s what it is, my dear, you do expertly display here: EGOMANIA, pure and simple. Think about it for a little while. It might do you tons of good.
Btw, excellent advice you provided: I like to hang onto thin ropes, so you’ll be blessed with many more EX-GAY stories, henceforth. Don’t worry………..
Jealous?
WOW!
Just finished watching “Field of Vision”( Walmart and Procter & Gamble Movie Night selection ) and must say that is was an excellent experience once again – Ya did it proud boys! If you missed it – “shame on you!” It brought out those nostalgic feelings of the family, all gathered around the tv viewing entertainment worth watching, that is, without the worry of some inevitable ( these days anyway ) obscenity rearing its ugly head.
There were noticeable virtues such as respect for one another, authority, teamwork,faith – and the courage to do what is right even when the cost for doing so is great. More people need emulate the common existence that was portrayed in this movie,if they did – “there would be less swords in the world and more hugs”. Well, I am looking forward to the next movie night – next time you bring the popcorn! LOL
Ha, this is a really beautiful piece about this Rick Perry character, the ultimate US Clown. It’s from The Friendly Atheist and brilliantly depicts the Genius Type Intelligence of our Next, Great President……… Laugh and Enjoy. Yeah Bill, I do think Obama should be very much afraid of this Absolute Genius, who’s about to change the designation US of America nicely into the Medieval States of America (if not Africa)………….
“Governor Rick Perry Wants Texans to Pray to Stop the Fires
As wildfires race across Texas while a drought continues, Governor Rick Perry has figured out a way to put a stop to Nature’s wrath:
… throughout our history, both as a state and as individuals, Texans have been strengthened, assured and lifted up through prayer; it seems right and fitting that the people of Texas should join together in prayer to humbly seek an end to this devastating drought and these dangerous wildfires;
…
I, RICK PERRY, Governor of Texas, under the authority vested in me by the Constitution and Statutes of the State of Texas, do hereby proclaim the three-day period from Friday, April 22, 2011, to Sunday, April 24, 2011, as Days of Prayer for Rain in the State of Texas. I urge Texans of all faiths and traditions to offer prayers on that day for the healing of our land, the rebuilding of our communities and the restoration of our normal way of life.
Got that, firefighters? Texas doesn’t need you anymore. God’s going to make everything better. (And don’t even THINK about praying on Monday. That’s outside the Prayer Window.)
I don’t know which is worse — the fact that the governor has no real solutions at all, or the notion that he actually believes he found the answer. Would it be better if he really believed this s–t or if he was just trying to pander to his base?
He must have gotten the idea from former Alabama governor Bob Riley, who did the exact same thing back in 2007. (***Update***: Former Georgia governor Sonny Perdue did the same thing in 2007.)
At some point in the future — hopefully, the near future — rain will fall again. And it won’t have anything to do with who’s praying for it.”
http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/04/22/governor-rick-perry-wants-texans-to-pray-to-stop-the-fires/
Oh yes, lest I forget, how about these comments:
- And when it finally does rain, which it will anyway, prayer will get all the credit. Oh, and lets not use any federal resources to help with the fire – that would be socialism.
-Wait? How can he (Perry) do that? He is usurping Jesus’s zombie day! How can you allow such a thing? We need to celebrate Zombie Day! I think Jesus will be mad at him and not let it rain if he is taking attention away from his glory at becoming undead…..
Read here Billie, what “one of your own”, Conservative Commentator Mark Vogl, says about Rick Perry, our unbelievably honest and very intelligent Presidential Candidate………
“Texas Governor Perry – a fraud on illegal immigration
________________________________________
Last year Arizona had the courage to pass law enforcing US law – Texas has not followed!
________________________________________
by Mark Vogl
(conservative)
Monday, March 14, 2011
“Former Governor Mike Huckabee was in East Texas yesterday, in Tyler, to promote his book, and his possiblerun for the GOP nomination.
But like Governor Rick Perry, Huckabee is not tough on illegal immigration or on sealing the border. And this has to be a litmus test for the GOP nominee.
Down here in Texas, and in the other states along the US – Mexican border private property rights are all but non-existent along the border as Mexicans cross the border to set and control routes for illegal drugs, immigrants and anything else. The action taken by Arizona last year was because the federal government has absolutely abandoned its responsibility to protect our border. This abandonment has been the same whether Republican or Democrat is President!
We are at war in two nations across the globe because of the threat of terrorism, but we can’t protect our own border! If it were up to me, the first money spent on defense of America would be at our borders and coastline. Defense starts from border,
Rick Perry, who is a dark house aspirant for the GOP Presidential nomination has falsely pretended to the nation that he is tough on the border! Nothing could be further from the truth. Perry has done nothing! He did nothing during the great controversy over Arizona’s law. Did he stand up with the Arizona governor when she was under national public scrutiny about their law? No…he was soooo far away he could have been with Obama on vacation in Hawaii!
Perry was an advocate of the Trans Texas corridor, a plan to build a New Jersey Turnpike type road from Mexico through Texas towards the center of America. This would provide a high speed ground avenue from Mexico to settle the heartland of America with Mexicans!
The plan died a long death when both the Republican controlled State Senate and House would NOT SUPPORT it. The average Texan was adamant in opposition. So to win re-election as governor, Perry abandoned his support…at least for now!!! But Perry is Bush picked globalist. He is not what we need in terms of national leadership on these issues”
http://www.nolanchart.com/article8451_Texas_Governor_Perry__a_fraud_on_illegal_immigration.h
Ah yes, another “Rick Perry Gem”
Please read this editorial article from “the statesman.com”, depicting (that secession idiot) Rick Perry’s CONSPICUOUS HYPOCRISY
“Federal funds help save the state’s (ESPECIALLY THE STATE OF TEXAS’) hide”
“The old caution about looking gift horses in the mouth doesn’t apply in politics. Gov. Rick Perry, for example, saddles up and rides away after looking in the horse’s mouth and complaining loudly about what he sees there.
During the session, the all-GOP legislative leadership team would grudgingly admit that if it weren’t for the federal government’s stimulus money, Texas budget cuts would have been wide and deep.
But that didn’t keep the governor and others from criticizing Washington for its wasteful ways. At one point, Perry mentioned secession in stoking up an anti-tax crowd.
It was tough talk but as is usually the case in politics, the gap between rhetoric and reality was as wide as the gap between the state’s income and demands for services. Without the federal assistance, Texas would be in a tough financial fix.
According to a report released last week by the nonpartisan National Conference of State Legislators, Texas led other states in using stimulus money to plug the holes in its 2010 budget. The stimulus that the governor reviled on stump helped Texas legislators avoid tax increases and kept them from reaching into the state’s rainy day fund.
According to the report, federal money provided 96.7 percent of funds required to close Texas’ budget gaps, the highest of any of the states. Nebraska came in second at 88 percent.
The percentage might have been even higher had not the governor quite ostentatiously turned down federal money to bolster the hard-hit Texas Unemployment Insurance Fund. Republicans in the legislature urged him to take the money in the face of rising unemployment claims that were fast draining the funds. Like Horatius, Perry stood firm on the bridge. Then.
Now, he’s budging a little but still defiant. His commentary on this page speaks for itself. Texas employers will see an increase in taxes and state government will have to ask the feds for a loan to keep the unemployment insurance fund afloat, the governor writes. He nonetheless defends the decision to turn down the stimulus money.
The governor reminds us of people who complain about an obnoxious table companion whose volume is exceeded only by bad table manners. But what the heck, he picks up the tab.
Anyone who can read knows by now that Perry’s derisive use of the word “Washington” is a double shot: one aimed at Democrats in general and U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, in particular. Hutchison has announced that she will challenge Perry in the March 2010 Republican primary.
The party’s hard-right base has been reliable for Perry, and the anti-Washington talk is what they want to hear. It would all be very amusing little political operatta if it weren’t for the fact that real people with real lives are getting chewed up the machinations.
Don’t expect expressions of gratitude or even an acknowledgement that if it hadn’t been for the stimulus package, Texans would have mighty sore feet because there would be no gift horse to ride
http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/editorial/stories/2009/07/27/0727stimulus_edit_.html
Well then, now we know how our friend Perry managed to “create” those jobs down there near the Mexican Border: Obama (a Muslim???) just extended his friendly hand and this allegedly Fundy Christian Perry sne
Sorry, hit the button way too early. Here’s the remainder: sneakily snatched those billions of dollars away to stuff the State’s frighteningly shrinking vaults. What a Genius, eh??????
What about the dirty conservative tactics vis a vis Obama, then? Senseless slander, name calling, just about everything the gutter has to offer. Come on B, don’t be ridiculous. Act like a real hetero man, not an old nanny in her rocker…….
Gosh folks, I’m growing so hopelessly tired of this endless, endless, endless whining over and over again about the alleged detrimental consequences of that damned DADT-repeal. Jeez, man, come up with some really reliable EVIDENCE, instead of spreading your verbal diarrhea here till doomsday coming. Real scientific evidence is what we need Mr B, not that spiteful Fundy blathering you and your conservative Christian buddies seem to have a very special talent for.
Now study these reports, for starters.
1) What Does the Empirical Research Say about the Impact of
Openly Gay Service on the Military? A Research Memo
By Dr. Nathaniel Frank, Senior Research Fellow, Palm Center
March 3, 2010—Research on openly gay service is extensive, and includes over half a century of evidence gathered by independent researchers and the U.S. military itself, as well as the study of the experience of foreign militaries. The U.S. military’s own researchers have consistently found that openly gay service does not undermine cohesion, and the military has repeatedly sought to condemn or suppress these conclusions when they emerged. Yet no research has ever shown that open homosexuality impairs military
readiness. This fact has been acknowledged by the Government Accountability Office and by the Pentagon, which has said in response to evidence suggesting that openly gay service works that its policy is “inherently subjective in nature” and is the result of “professional Military judgment, not scientific or sociological analysis. ….. [See] the major research studies on service by gays and lesbians presented on the site.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/32085909/What-Does-Empirical-Research-Say-About-Openly-Gay-Service
2) Assessing the integration of gays and lesbians into the South African National Defence Force
January 12, 2011
Abstract
During the apartheid era, the South African military maintained a dual policy on homosexuality – prohibited among members of the permanent force, homosexuality was officially tolerated among conscripts. When the regime fell, the new government committed itself to human rights considerations, and after the South African Constitution adopted a provision of non-discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in 1996, the South African military followed suit. In 1998, the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) implemented the Policy on Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action that declared that there would no longer be discrimination against gays and lesbians. This article draws together military and government documents, secondary research, press coverage and interviews with individuals with knowledge on this topic to assess the effects of this policy change. The evidence suggests that the integration of gay and lesbian personnel has not had a negative impact on recruitment and retention, morale, unit cohesion or operational effectiveness in the SANDF.
http://www.palmcenter.org/publications/dadt/assessing_integration_gays_and_lesbians_south_african_national_defence_force
The problem, then, doesn’t seem to be “being openly gay” in the military, but (having to endure) the attitude of CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS (Fundamentalists or folk leaning towards fundamentalism, in other words) toward homosexuality. But, of course, that need not surprise anyone of us!!!
I’m not a believer, but I still found these passages from your bible very interesting. They’re warning you believers (or pseudo-believers, for that matter) not to indulge in self-righteousness, slander and mud throwing (most certainly not in regard to authorities, such as our President and his Cabinet ministers). You’ll not inherit that much coveted “Kingdom of God” (whatever it may be, of course)!!!
Psalm 101:5
Whoever SLANDERS his neighbor I will destroy. Whoever has A HAUGHTY look and an ARROGANT HEART I will not endure
1 Peter 2:1
So put away all malice and all deceit and HYPOCRISY and envy and all SLANDER.
These two are especially meant for the Superwealthy Conservative Tax dodgers
Hebrews 13:5
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Titus 3:1
Remind them to be SUBMISSIVE TO RULERS AND AUTHORITIES, to be obedient
(This last one should be particularly interesting to those who take pride in dragging The President through mud and dirt!!!!!!).
So, Beware Billie, you’ll have to account for your “sins” of Arrogance, Slander and Mocking our President. Big Brother up there in heaven is watching you!!!!
I welcome any judgement or discipline that God has for me.Can you say the same with a clear conscience?
Yes Bill, your words only prove my point. You’re really totally shameless and without any potential for honest self-evaluation. I don’t believe in your god and your Delusions, so as far as my sexual preference is concerned, I am not liable to any accusation of morally reprehensible behavior. But you are (or at least seem to be ) a staunch defender of Conservative Biblical Text interpretation and pretend to live fully according to “Scriptural Principles”. Well, not as far as I’ve read your “holy” book. As I’ve already said in my previous post your personal attitude of smear, slander and condemnation (and telling half truths) is wholly contrary to what is written right there in that book of yours. But, quite evidently, you’re the paragon of typically conservative hypocrisy. When the story concerns sexuality (homosexuality and, I suppose, “premarital sex” as well) you’re very, very quick to condemn and bash your neighbor as much and as fiercely as you can. Very, very much in accordance with you so-called savior’s demands, I dare say.
But when the debate regards the social responsibility of the wealthy and super-wealthy towards the poor, then suddenly you start spitting on administrators (such as President Obama) willing and courageous enough to drag these tax-cheating criminals by their predator’s tails and remind them of their obligations vis à vis the poor. Read what your bible says about these dogs:
Luke 12:33. “SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS and give to charity….
Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, “Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none…..
( OBAMA’S [RE]DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, REMEMBER???).
If the wealthy and super-wealthy were indeed as generous as your bible demands, would Obama or any other administrator for that matter, ever have to consider any measures to force the “super have’s” to share their assets much more lavishly than they’ll be prepared to do spontaneously in a million years?
Oh, I can hear you bawl your head off now: no, no, no we don’t want government to take anything extra from us. We want to give freely; besides, what we spend on the poor and unemployed is more than enough already…… (Tea-party mentality par excellence!!!).
Well, according to your much revered scriptures it’s not enough by a long shot. Keep that in mind,
As one commentator says,
“The message is continuous. It’s in the Torah; it’s in the Prophets and Psalms; it’s in the Gospels; it’s in the Epistles. How many churches emphasize serving the poor as much as the Bible itself does? Would the world look the way it does if all believers followed these commands?”
It is the unbelivers that have made the world the way it is today.
That should be “unbelievers”
Yes, don’t take your responsibility, blame it on the unbelievers. So typical of you Conservative Christians. You fully endorsed the invasion of two countries in the Middle East with totally disastrous results. (Your GWB even contended that it was “god” himself who ordered him to do so). Dubya, the born-again fraud with his lame lies about weapons of mass destruction….. Gimme a break. It’s you Christians who endorse the total corruption of this planet’s many unique eco systems, causing the extinction of an unimaginable number of plants and animals. Just a few hundred years ago you almost brought about the total demise of the Amer-Indian race. Blacks suffered horribly on your account. And I could go on and on and on. You praise and idolize free market capitalism, but it is precisely this horrifyingly deceptive system that’s causing mass unemployment in Europe as well as the US. (Started with your hero Bush, to be sure). (See this website under the heading of Capitalism Creates Poverty http://capitalism-creates-poverty.blogspot.com/2011/01/free-market-corporate-domination-means.html).
So, please don’t give me that crap about unbelievers. I’m grateful every day of my short life that you Fundies aren’t in power in this country. I think I would very, very seriously consider emigration, to Canada, for instance, should you manage to grab power sometime during my lifetime. Ughhh
Do you prefer English or French?
I do believe that it is time society begins to address the injustices that are being committed by liberals, that are quickly eroding the fabric that has made us such a great society in the first place. We need to roll back the judicial activism that recognized the homosexuals as being “special”. Remove any special rights, privileges,etc. that grants autonomy based on “sexual preference” – and certainly deny any right to adopt children!
Employers should have the right to decide if they want a homosexual. trans-gender, or whatever representing their business.Schools should not be allowed to enforce the agenda of the homosexuals, nor should parents be denied their God-given right to OPT OUT their child from such harmful indoctrination. As a people – this is OUR world- NOT the small percentage of homosexuals that are demanding to change it! DENY! DENY! DENY! That is our battle cry, in ANY, ALL attempts to alter our world-save our children,the future of our world.DO IT TODAY!
Oh Heavens, we’ve got a case of reincarcation on our hands now: Billie the Baptist on the Loose. Instead of repent, repent, it’s deny, deny now. Ever heard of the word PSYCHIATRIST, Billie? Looks as if your affliction is getting worse by the hour. But lucky for you, you’ve still got your Good Old Private Insurance Card lying somewhere in yer kitchen cupboard. I’d rush if I were you, Billie, now that Obamacare is not yet in effect. You’ve still got a fair chance of being admitted for treatment. Good luck ma boy!I
Very good news Bill, about that Christian Neanderthal Student. They should treat many more Christian Nutheads quite similarly
Oh Billie, I think it’s gonna happen. Think I won’t sleep the coming five nights. I’m “praying” like mad, just like you, I s’pose!!!!
Oh, if we LGBT’s win, I’ll make a very fine donation to? Well, what would you suggest????
http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/06/13/new_york_gay_marriage_state_senate_poised_to_legalize_same_sex_m.html
Gay Marriage Bill Finds Momentum in New York
New York appears to be inching closer to becoming the latest state to legalize same-sex marriage.
The New York Times reports that three wavering Democratic state senators have agreed to support the proposal, leaving gay marriage advocates only three votes shy of the total they would need for passage.
Those three lawmakers had previously voted against the measure, and their reversal gives Senate Democrats a near-unanimous voting bloc heading into a possible vote later this week. (The party’s lone holdout, Rubén Díaz Sr., is one of the most vocal opponents of the bill.)
Advocates, however, still appear to have their work cut out for them. They will need to find the three remaining votes they need within the chamber’s Republican majority, which voted unanimously against the effort two years ago.
Whether it happens or not, it will not alter society’s opposition to this plague. We will fight the spread of this perversion every step of the way to make it legitimate lifestyle. I know that subsequently that this pathological practice MAY become accepted by most of society; however, I do not think that God in his infinite wisdom will allow it to flower to its destructive pinnacle!
No, I believe that He will pull the plug on this “Tower of Babel” , and the gnashing of teeth will become the anthem of “lost souls” destined for eternal judgment. So bring on your temporal victories, as I have said before – it matters not to me their outcome. The outcome of this battle has already been decided and it is a glorious feeling to be on the winning side of the cosmic scoreboard!!!
Very interesting article about the connection between DEATH ANXIETY and the Reluctance to Accept the Science of Evolution as Fact (especially rampant in the USA).
Why do people still reject the theory of evolution?
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/death-love-sex-magic/201104/why-do-people-still-reject-the-theory-evolution
Finding the meaning in evolution.
Published on April 18, 2011 by Clay Routledge, Ph.D. in Death Love Sex Magic
Despite an overwhelming amount of convergent empirical evidence across a number of scientific disciplines, many people, especially in North America, still refuse to accept the theory of evolution. If the evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming, why is this so?
There are, of course, a number of possible explanations. For example, many have argued that our education system has done a poor job properly teaching kids about evolution. As someone who teaches college courses, I know I have had discussions with students who clearly have false beliefs about the theory. Similarly, there are individuals and organizations (primarily religious in nature) that are misrepresenting evolution in a strategic effort to dissuade people from accepting it and teaching it in schools.
A MUST -READ.
Until you,or any of your atheistic elite, can answer my 10 questions for a thinking atheist that I posted earlier, don’t try to convince me about the futility of evolution – it’s no contest when compared with Creationism.
How can you believe in something that was refuted at the person’s deathbed as lies? Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
Ten questions, Bill??? What questions? I (or you??) must have been dreaming at the time, because I honestly don’t recall any ten questions you posed. No, my memory only tells me about a question concerning the so-called missing link. But, to my knowledge I have already addressed that point elsewhere. To recap: the crucial issue is: look at the structure of excavated skulls “we” have found to date and the ONLY CONCLUSION POSSIBLE WILL LEAD YOU IN THE DIRECTION OF EVOLUTION.
The issue has been settled quite a while ago already. It’s such a pity I can’t show you the chart Professor Jerry Coyne presented in his brilliant book, WHY EVOLUTION IS TRUE. But why don’t you hop over to your local academic bookstore (or your library) and grab a copy right there. Now, to find your answer, look at the arrangement of skulls depicted in Fig 25 (page 198). And, read this excerpt from Coyne’s book (pages pages 207-208).
Looking at the whole array of bones, then, wqhat do we have? Clearly, indisputable evidence for human evolution from apelike ancestors. Granted, we can’t yet trace out a (NEATLY) CONTINUOUS LINEAGE from an apelike early hominin to modern Homo sapiens. The fossils are SCATTERED IN TIME AND SPACE, a series of dots yet to be genealogically connected. And we may never have enough fossils to join them. But, if you put the dots in chronological order (as in fig 24), you see exactly what Darwin predicted: fossils that start off apelike and become more and more like modern humans as time passes. It’s a fact that our divergence from the ancestor of chimps occurred in East or Central Africa about seven million years ago, and that bipedal walking evolved well before the evolution of large brains. We know that during much of hominim evolution, several species existed at the same time…… Given the small population size of humans and the improbability of their fossilization (remember that this requires that a body finds its way into the water and be quickly covered with sediment), IT’S AMAZING THAT WE HAVE AS GOOD A RECORD AS WE DO. It seems impossible to survey the fossils we have (look at fig 25), AND DENY THAT HUMANS HAVE EVOLVED.
Yet some still do. When dealing with the human fossil record, CREATIONISTS go through extreme, indeed almost humorous, contortions to avoid admitting the obvious. IN FACT THEY’D PREFER TO STEER CLEAR OF THE ISSUE. But, when forced to confront it, they simply sort hominin fossils into what they see as two distinct groups – humans and apes –and assert that these groups are separated by a large and unbridgeable gap. This reflects THEIR RELIGIOUSLY BASED VIEW that although some specious may have evolved from others, humans did not, but were the object of a special act of creation. But the whole folly is exposed by the fact that creationists can’t get agree on exactly which fossils are “human” and which are “ape”. Specimen of H. habilis and H. erectus, for instance, are classified as “apes” by some creationists and humans by others. One author has even described a H. erectus as an ape in one of his books and human in another NOTHING SHOWS THE INTERMEDIACY OF THESE FOSSILS BETTER THAN THE INABILITY OF CREATIONISTS TO CLASSIFY THEM CONSISTENTLY. (= very strong evolutionist argument, don’t you think, Bill?).
I think Professor Coyne’s book should be obligatory stuff for High School and College students!!!
Finally, I’ve got ten questions for YOU to break your head over. See this,
Ten questions creationists can’t answer (without resorting to the supernatural)
1. The Genesis flood: Where did all that water come from? Where did it go? more flood information
2. How could the Genesis flood form the Grand Canyon? more information on the Grand Canyon
3. How do you explain the universally consistent radioactive dating results obtained with different radioactive elements, and the consistent correlation with objects of known age? more radioactive dating information
4. What scientifically factual information can you supply to support your contention that the universe is only a few thousand years old?
5. How do you explain the astronomical evidence that the universe is billions of years old, without resorting to the preposterous assumption that the speed of light was millions of times faster in the past than it is now? more information
6. What mathematical proof can you supply, based on the known equations of thermodynamics, that order can not spontaneously arise from disorder? more thermodynamics information
7. If your claim that thermodynamics will not permit the evolution of complex living structures is true, then how do you explain, without resorting to make-believe special mechanisms that have no basis in thermodynamics, the development of a chick in an egg?
8. If creationism is scientifically valid, then why is it necessary to emphasize that the sectarian religous dogma of the Book of Genesis is the ultimate scientific authority?
9. If you believe that God can override nature to create living things as described in the Book of Genesis, then what reasons do you have, other than your religious beliefs, that God could not have created living things through a process of evolution?
10. The standard creationist explanation for the distribution of fossils in geological strata, with most primitive life forms in the lower strata, and mammals and humans in the upper strata, is that clever mankind was smart enough to climb to higher ground to escape the rising flood waters. How do you explain the fact that thousands of persons drowned in the recent Central America floods, in an area contiguous to higher ground? How do you explain the position of the fossils in the geologic layers, with small fossils below large fossils, which is contrary to hydraulic sorting in which large objects settle deeper than small objects?
http://www.fsteiger.com/questions-for-creationists.html
Enjoy and learn something, at last!!!
Check the post on June 2,2011 9:03 AM
Once again you overlook the obvious.There can be no explanations for the answers that you seek except “GOD” He is “ALL”. No matter what your brain can conceive,it can’t comprehend it without it being first from the thought of God. There is nothing material or immaterial that exists without coming from God. Even the physical processes that you so diligently seek me to answer are created by Him too.
I do not need to worry about searching for answers to creation,I have them already in the Genesis explanation; however, I wouldn’t expect such an obstinate mind as yours to comprehend this,so I just do the best I can with you and leave it at that. Most likely, the answers you seek were never meant to be revealed to the secular mind,kind of like God’s way of toying with you. Reminds me of a cat chasing its tail- LOL
I am content with my acceptance of Creationism,you however, are the one on the endless journey for truth and continue pressing on in unsuccessful frustration – not me.
Oops! So overcome with excitement that I somehow double posted. Sorry!
Of course, Billie, we’ll dump all those “unaborted”, unwanted children on your doorstep. You care so much about them, you’ll provide for proper care, food and education. In line with your bible’s dictates you’ll sell your posessions and encourage your Fundy buddies to do exactly the same. Yeah, it’s so easy to bawl about abortion and leave it at that, behind your fancy flatscreen tv and your computer, eh????
Let me tell you pal, if it were God’s will to dump all the “unaborted,unwanted children on my doorstep, there is NO doubt that they would be taken care of. God doesn’t give us more than we are capable of dealing with, and He provides a way out of our dilemma. So, mock on my friend.
Gay marriage is dividing the GOP. So what! That must mean half of them support it. I’m gay and legally married here in Canada. No one gives a rat’s butt about it. We all have much more important things to concern ourselves about than worrying about who marries whom. Why people waste so much of their time fighting about an issue that has absolutely nothing to do with them is a mystery to me. I can’t remember a single thing negative from anyone who personally knows about my marriage. People know and love my partner (64) and I (53) for our character, how we contribute to our community and society in general, as well as the kind of people we are. They don’t focus on the sexual aspect of our lives. Most normal people don’t. That’s because our relationship is NOT based on sex. It’s based on love, respect, friendship, companionship, and building a life together, as with any other mature adult couple. Yes, we have our sexual side. Humans do. We’re all sexual beings. Regarding me focusing on other people’s sex lives – It’s none of my business.
Whatever statistic, article, or video link that is copied and pasted on this page is only the opinion of that person. It will never change me or my life. So paste away!
And remember…we’re also ALL homos….
Scientific classification:
Genus: Homo
Species: Homo sapiens
Thom,
If you choose to live under the delusion of Canada not having any objections to the homosexual perversion that is your choice. The comment of us all being : Genus: Homo Species is a divinely given attribute; however the classification of being Homo sexual is NOT. There is an eternity of difference between the two choices,one leads to a divine residency,the other to a Christ less eternity in Hell. But, I have the feeling that you are so comfortable living in sin that nothing will convince you of any difference.
Bill said: “If you choose to live under the delusion of Canada not having any objections to the homosexual perversion that is your choice.”
No Canadian delusion. It’s a right for all, which it protected under the Canadian Constitution. But it is my choice as an American & Canadian citizen to enjoy those rights.
Bill said: “The comment of us all being : Genus: Homo Species is a divinely given attribute; however the classification of being Homo sexual is NOT.”
The “HOMO” thing was meant as a bit of humor because many people enjoy throwing around the word. You don’t see to have a sense of humor.
Bill said: “There is an eternity of difference between the two choices, one leads to a divine residency, the other to a Christ less eternity in Hell. But, I have the feeling that you are so comfortable living in sin that nothing will convince you of any difference”.
By your statement you are judging me. That is contrary to God isn’t it? The thing is, I believe in God. I don’t believe in you! I don’t believe loving another person is a sin. I’ve studied some of the earliest translations of the Bible. There is NOTHING that says same-sex relationships are a sin. The many translations over the centuries have been changed to serve certain persons of power – to suit their purposes – keeping the lay people dumbed down and powerless. Also, ‘guilt’ can be a powerful weapon against the weak.
Bill, you should have a look at the page from this link: http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
It may show you that there are other possibilities. Maybe not, since you seem to think you’re always be right about everything you believe.
Sorry Thom,
But I am well aware of the Biblical paradigm for humanity. Now where does the Bible say that God tolerates homosexuality,matter of fact there are very specific instructions regarding this plague. The homosexual community has chosen to twist the biblical edicts to favor them. God has also warned about any alteration to His word. Do not attempt to convince me that just because two same- sex people love one another that it is an acceptable relationship in God’s eyes – it is not. This is contrary to God’s will,it is SIN and God hates sin because He can’t look upon sin. So, I suggest that you invest more time in prayerful repentance, as well as learning your Bible.
PS: You are in a fighting a losing battle – Just like your Vancouver Cannots, oops! I meant Canucks the cup comes back where Hockey rules
the U.S.A. !!
Meant to say “you are fighting a losing battle”.
The words “homosexual” and “homosexuality” do not appear in the Bible-at least they are absent from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. The authors of the Bible did not understand sexual orientation; this concept was only developed in the late 19th century. The writers had little or no comprehension of same-sex committed relationships. Their languages had no words for these concepts. Rather, they assumed that everyone was heterosexual, but that some heterosexuals engaged in sex with persons of the same gender. Thus, when you see one of these terms in an English translation of the Bible, it is important to dig deeper and find what the original Hebrew or Greek text really means. The word “homosexual” first appeared in the New Revised Standard (RSV) Bible in 1946.
Traditional Church teaching falsely misuses the Bible to judge the homosexual lifestyle. True Biblical theology begins not with Church tradition and dogma but with the biblical texts themselves. Biblical theology seeks to understand how the biblical authors expressed themselves in the Koine Greek of the time (not expanded by later modern greek meanings), in terms of their culture. Only with this understanding is it legitimate to define biblical sexual ethics of the NT and find implications for today.
There is little said in the bible about homosexuality because it was no big deal! It occupied a prominent and respected position in most Greek and Roman cities at all levels of society and among a substantial part of the population. There are only 4 scriptures that are taken to say anything about homosexuality; the Leviticus laws, I Cor 6:9, Romans 1:26-27, and the story of Sodom and Gomorrah – and none address loving, consenting homosexual acts as we know them today.
There are over 600 individual “laws” in the Levitical code, the breaking of anyone of which would make the sinner unclean and unacceptable to God. It is an abomination to eat pork, etc. The law is no longer in effect and its purpose was to show that man could never follow it. The sins of Sodom and Gomorrah, likewise have nothing to do with homosexuality.
And this has to do with Gay Marriage Dividing the GOP, how?!?
I’m married and happy. Are you? Care to answer or post more articles?
Well, Thom,
First off for the record,I do not need to justify myself to ANYONE. If you read the posts on this forum you would have your answer to your question- only goes to prove the disadvantage one places themselves at when the just jump into something half-cocked and show their ignorance, eh?
You answer like the typical politician – you won’t answer a simple question: “Are you married?”. Your response is so typically arrogant: “I do not need to justify myself to ANYONE. If you read the posts on this forum you would have your answer to your question”. That’s right – evade the question and try to change the subject. And in response: No one has the time or interest in reviewing every single one of your endless posts. Unlike you, I HAVE a life!
I guess the answer to my question about you being married would then be NO? I have someone to have and to hold in my life. Do you? I have someone who loves me unconditionally. Do you? I have built a long and lasting married relationship with my partner of 17 years. What do you have? An answer or more acid tongued judgment for me?
You provoke mockery, my dear Billie, quite simply and clearly, with your brain-dead Fundy rambling like a machine gone awry. It’s people such as you, clinging to totally outdated, backward ideas about social justice, that are reinforcing the state of practically complete stagnancy we’ve been slipping into since GWB took up office. Brazil, for instance, has seen a steady increase in upward social mobility, since the SOCIALIST PRESIDENT (yes a socialist, Billie) Mr Lula came to power. Not so in the US. This is how Professor Kathryn Wilson, associate professor of economics at Kent State University, summarizes the main finding of [an empirical] study [in 2009; see website below]:
“People like to think of America as the land of opportunities. The irony is that our country actually has less social mobility and more inequality than most developed countries” !!!
http://understandingsociety.blogspot.com/2009/08/social-mobility.html
So ThOM, VERY GOOD OF YOU TO EMIGRATE TO CANADA, a country so much more civilized and gay-friendly than the US ,where the TYRANNY OF CHRISTIANITY is causing nothing but totally unnecessary suffering and social backwardness!!!!!
And Frederick, as long as their are individuals that remain in the state of sin “Christianity” will remain a thorn in their sides!
Gee Bill, you must be the very first person from the 20th century and on planet earth without sin. Oh wait, we are ALL sinners, so we are told by God. So stop your holy than thou crap! Love is not a sin. You’re judging of others is.
I also get such a kick out of the stuff you post, because it has so much more substance than you could ever hope to posses. But keep trying.
Well Thom,
Seeing the time-stamp on your post I am guessing that you are feeling a bit irritated about the performance of the Canucks and Canada’s missed opportunity. as for the sin aspect, we are ALL sinners my boy- even Frederick.
Holier than thou? It is all a matter of perception – I guess? I have no problem with my conscience and my actions when approaching God in prayer. I feel no conviction, or need to confess anything or repentance,so that means it all rests upon YOUR perception; which would mean you are standing in judgment of ME! Also,I do not conform to the criticism of others, nor do I place any value in them either. I answer only to God!
And you realize that the “suffering and social backwardness” is a two-way street. Right?
A very interesting book has recently been published depicting Religion, particular the Christian Faith as a Virus, A POISON, infecting so many strata of our society. A great Read.
Book is by Craig Thomas and titled: The Religion Virus: Why we believe in God: An evolutionist explains religion’s incredible hold on humanity
Can be ordered via Amazon.com
Especially helpful, perhaps, for you, Thom, if you want to free yourself of the Burden of Religious Nonsense.
Yes Bill, a thorn that needs to be extracted and crushed as thoroughly as possible. A continuous mission, my dear!
Nice pair of states, eh: The happy state of sin and the State of Brain-dead Futility…….
I’ve heard the presence of criticism in place of honest intellectual dialogue is the hallmark of weakening offensive….. Hmmmmm
To all Canadians hetero and homo – you played a good series but the better team won!
As a male, I’m not gay, but my husband is!
Sometimes, the difference between a gay cowboy and a straight cowboy is a six-pack of beer. Alcohol may also cause straight men to tap their foot in an airport washroom. Kind of like Larry Craig who actually had to read his statement instead of just saying it: “I am not gay, nor have I ever been gay”. He’s could be at the least bi-sexual, as opposed to buy-sexual (a rent boy), like George Rekers hired from a known gay website. Yeah, he’s not gay and gasoline at the pump is currently at 50 cents a gallon….NOT!
Mundane,
Who am I to try and deny the reality that you percieve in YOUR world? God loves us ALL regardless of our predilection to SIN!
Slander Billie, Slander. As the French say: Frappez, frappez toujours. A SIN, BILLIE, ACCORDING TO YOUR “HOLY” BOOK OF LIES AND DECEPTION. YOU’RE A SLANDERER, HELL-BOUND IN OTHER WORDS. You deny it, but it’s the BARE TRUTH, ain’t it??? Your God hates “Finger-pointing slanderers”……
Well, apparently you’re so totally obsessed with (homo)sexuality that you can’t see ”THE BEAM IN YOUR OWN EYE” (Your very own Matthew 27:4 & 5). No, Billie you’re the prototypical “Quixote” chasing windmills all day long here on the Forum. But alas some afflictions (such as chronic self-deception) will remain incurable till “doomsday” come.
You betcha. ( yawn )
Yes, yawn: what did I tell you about Fundy Hypocrisy????
Well, I’ve been yawning for ages already re your endlessly repeated: homosexuality is an abomination. So, Billie, we’re riding exactly the same boat, we’re on a par!!! Aren’t you going to celibrate that with me? Come on Billie, get out yer bottle of champaign. Hooray1 See ya in Hell…
Great News re the Full-time Hypocrite Rick Perry
Report: Perry’s religious giving below average
© 2011 The Associated Press
June 12, 2011, 6:07PM
SAN ANTONIO — Gov. Rick Perry, who often displays his faith at prayer breakfast speeches and has called the nation’s governors to a prayer meeting, has fallen far short of the scriptural mandate for financial support for the church, according to a published report Sunday.
The Perry family’s income tax return shows Perry gave $90 to his church in 2007, a year in which he reported an income of more than $1 million, the San Antonio Express-News reported in Sunday’s edition. Tax records from 2000, when Perry became governor, through 2009 show he earned $2.68 million and gave $14,243 to churches and religious organizations, about a half percent, the newspaper reported.
Perry reported no religious contributions in 2000 and 2009, according to his tax records.
Americans averaged giving nearly 1.2 percent of their income to churches and religious groups in 2004-08, according to the Illinois-based research firm Empty Tomb Inc., which tracks church-giving trends.
Tithing customarily calls for contributing at least 10 percent of income to churches and other religious organizations.
PERRY DECLINED AN INTERVIEW FOR THE EXPRESS-NEWS STORY, ACCORDING TO THE NEWSPAPER.
(THE COWARD)
“He never talks about his faith,” Perry spokesman Mark Miner said.
(THE BAREFACED LIAR, LIAR)!!!!!
However, he addresses faith often in public.
Perry announced last week that he had proclaimed Aug. 6 as “a day of prayer and fasting for our nation to seek God’s guidance and wisdom in addressing the challenges that face our communities, states and nation,” according to a statement issued June 6 by the governor’s office.
Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/7607420.html#ixzz1PR4Q8AUL
The last time I checked, a man’s conscience regarding his actions were a personal matter between them and God – NOT the scrutiny of human opinion- I could be wrong though…..
Homoskeptick? must be a gay “tick” for a gay “dog”. LOL Suppose to be “Homoskeptic”.
Read here about the OUtright Lies and the Typically Right Wing Conservative Hysteria N(ational) O(rganization) (for) M(arrigae) is displaying on the net.
Really outrageous
NOM’s attempt to exploit ‘gay indoctrination’ lie backfires
by: Alvin McEwen
Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 08:05:37 AM EDT
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/19387/noms-attempt-to-exploit-gay-indoctrination-lie-backfires
Thus, says Frederick. The real issue here is that the homosexual community is not gaining the sacred ground they thought they would- so let’s try and DISCREDIT NOM (the primary roadblock to their perversion in the SSM Battle in New York)- because time is running out for the rats on this sinking ship!
Keep the prayers coming! God is greater than the Homosexual movement.
“Greater is He that is in me,than he who is in the world”
Isn’t it ironic that man such as Barry, would end up in the most powerful position in the world; where,(if one wanted to) they could make a real difference in the world. But suffering from a combination of Father-Hunger,and the need for self-validation, it is no wonder that he forgoes the social morality that has held this country together – only to appease the moral degenerates that feed his fragile ego.
Barry reminds me of the Pied Piper of Hamelin , and the homosexual community are his lock-step rats. Little do they realize that he might appear to be playing their song as they march so merrily along – both benefiting from the symbiosis – but both soon will reap the malevolent rewards that await them. Barry – his days will come to a lonely awakening the power is gone – he will be left with nothing but the surrealistic vision of the path of destruction his legacy left upon society. Meanwhile the rats have long since died off en-mass because they joyfully marched off the cliff of their dreams. believing they finally won their hard fight for equality- when in reality- the price they paid ultimately cost them their lives.
larumas,
Ah, I was wondering how long it would be before the voice of ignorance echoed again in the forum , been pretty quiet since the SSM issue has lost momentum for the homosexual community.
Hey Thom,
Surprised that you would show up here after the way your Vancouver “Schmucks” choked . Oh well, I told you the cup would come home – the BETTER team won! Then the after game display of “sportsmanship??” WOW! Yea, I know they weren’t hockey fans (allegedly), but still – ya didn’t “stand on guard for thee”.
He must be, Iarumas; where would a hard-working “familiy man” find ALL that precious time he’s spending on his anti-gay crusade? But, of course, mom, dad and some of their offspring may be taking turns spewing their headless homo hate here on the net, instead of doing a bit of really useful work within their community.
Or, as you suggest, he may still be a Decent (…….), Fundy mommy ‘s boy, sitting on his potty behind that keyboard 24/7. Mommy’ll take care of all the dirty chores anyway. She’s one of Eve’s daughters, after all, and according to the Book of Lies (dear old “Bibelo”), she’s meant to be nothing more than a “help mate”. So, it just figures nicely, eh???
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God, that is, for those who are called according to his purpose, all things are working together for goo
Aha, “for goo?” should read “good”,but for those that are familiar with the Bible you already knew that.
Ah, my last post (June 17, 2011 at 9:08 am; see above) got “displaced” a bit. But I’m sure you’ll be happy to read it, anyway.
Ef those “unholy” religious liberties. This preposterous nonsense about Fundies feeling threatened by LGBT’s demanding their full rights must be stopped immediately. These pathetic whiners have terrorized us more than long enough. I really don’t understand why any gay person would want to be affiliated with any orthodox religion in the first place. It’s all purely medieval crap anyway. Let ‘em worry about the poor and the needy and stop bothering us gays with their endless drivel about heaven, hell, god and all other fairy tale Bull. Get off our backs. Geez.
Very insightful comment from American Atheists on that Fraud and Liar Rick Perry
AN ATHEIST CIVIL RIGHTS GROUP is suggesting that Gov. Rick Perry
of Texas should read his Christian Bible, specifically Matthew 6:6
which orders the faithful:
“But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou
hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy
Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”
Perry, a possible hopeful for the GOP presidential nomination,
is organizing a massive “prayer and fasting” event for August
6, 2011 at the Reliant Stadium in Houston, TX. The project is
endorsing the platform of the American Family Association, and is
described by Perry as an “apolitical Christian prayer service”
to provide “spiritual solutions to the many problems we face in
our communities, states and nation.” Perry has challenged leading
politicians, including many Republican candidates vying for their
party’s nomination, to show up for this public display of piety.
“This is not a prayer service, it’s a political rally draped in
public religiosity,” said David Silverman, President of American
Atheists. “It’s a signal to government leaders and politicians
everywhere that if they want votes, they must bow down to the
religious right and adopt its social agenda.”
Silverman added: “This is the perfect epitome of a government
official using religion for political gain. It was bad governance
that allowed America to slip into this recession, and only good
governance, not imaginary gods, that will get us out. We invite
all religious and nonreligious Americans to tell Governor Perry
to concentrate on real solutions to our real problems, instead of
diversions and dogma. ”
Joe Zamecki, Texas State Director for American Atheists, said that
atheists, freethinkers, secularists and even religious people who
disagree with
Gov. Perry’s pulpit-politics will be protesting on Saturday, August
6 near
the Reliant Stadium.
“We have no problem with the governor saying a private prayer,”
said Mr. Zamecki, “But by turning this into a political event,
Perry is insulting
the OVER 3,000,000 RESIDENTS IN THE LONE STAR STATE who profess ‘no
religion,’ and many more who are not Protestant evangelicals. He is
SUPPOSED TO BE GOVERNOR OF ALL THE PEOPLE, NOT THE STATE PREACHER.
http://www.atheists.org/press_releases/atheist_group_denounces_perry_
Perry is honoring his TRUE earthly obligation,that being a Christian. The position of being Governor is a God-given privilege of which he is honoring his faith and the great commission that ALL Christians do too.So,it is to bad if the secular world can’t comprehend this, because we DON’T believe in “separation of church and state.” – so protest all you want we WON’T change.
Being Governor is NOT a God-given privilege. It is a privilege given by the people of that state who democratically voted for him. It’s good he is honoring his faith. However, millions of people DO believe in the “separation of church and state.” It has nothing to do with a person’s faith. Faith is of a personal nature between them and God. It does however, have to do with the government imposing a certain religion on the population. The same way England did to it’s people at one time. That’s why so many immigrated to America, so they would no longer be oppressed by the Church of England. Some things need to be protested. Change can also be for the better.
Sorry,
but their emigration to this country was to escape the tyranny they were subject to.They sought the freedom to EXPRESS their worship of their Divine Saviour;which meant that it was NOT exclusive of any occupations,geographical boundaries,or specific times.Society has become so bombarded by the liberal interpretation of their being a separation of church and state”, that they believe the lie – repeat something enough times and the people begin to ACCEPT it as truth. There is NO evidence in the Constitution of there being a “separation”.
We are a Christian nation despite what people may think – the Supreme Court back in 1892 even declared it in a case U.S. vs. Trinity Church – how convenient most seem to overlook this! The supreme Court itself is filled with engravings of Christian Patriarchs (including Moses and the Ten Commandments!) – even the wooden doors leading into the judicial courtroom has Moses on them!
This case involved the Church of the Holy Trinity, which hired a pastor from England. Federal immigration officials attempted to block the hiring of the pastor based on a federal statute which prohibited importing foreign laborers. The U.S. Supreme Court held that this statute could not be applied to pastors because this is a Christian nation.
Some secularists have claimed that Court’s lengthy discussion of the issue of America as a Christian nation doesn’t really count, because it is mere “dicta.”
All of this history had a profound influence on the Founding Fathers. Nobody at the time the Constitution was being ratified believed that the Constitution was intended or would have the effect of transforming America from a Christian nation to an atheistic nation. Civil Government is always the legal enforcement of religious values. Had the Constitution been understood to be converting us from “a religious people” to a secular people, it would have been a matter of intense debate. There was no such debate.
The debate was whether the federal government had the power to make the Presbyterians or the Episcopalians (etc.) a state church. The outcome of this debate is far different from that of the [non-]debate on “separation of church and state,” whose outcome has been imposed on us by the courts
Sorry,
Once again your opinion is faulty. Faith is not just a personal thing between oneself and God,but Faith is something that is lived daily by believers. It is not an “isolated” relationship, nor is it something that is practiced when convenient – meaning it won’t be offensive to anybody. If it proves to be offensive, then the victim is the one that needs to examine their conscience- NOT the believer!
Faith is not something that is practiced by the utterance of words alone,or a belief in something supernatural that can’t be detected by human sight- it is a relationship with the Creator of All and is carried out in ACTION too!
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
BILL, AND DON”T FORGET ABOUT THE HETEROSEXUAL PORN INDUSTRY!
How Big Is Heterosexual Porn?
Dan Ackman – Forbes.com
Recently, much attention has been lavished on the heterosexual pornography industry–as a business–and many have claimed it is large and profitable, especially on the Internet. Many of the claims are cut from whole cloth, but are accepted without question by the legitimate press.
Skepticism is in order, though, because as David Klatell, associate dean of the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism notes, “[Heterosexual Pornography] is an industry where they exaggerate the size of everything.” The fact is pornography, or “adult entertainment,” is as marginal now as it ever was.
Take for instance the New York Times Magazine: It ran a cover story on May 18 called “Naked Capitalists: There’s No Business Like Porn Business.” Its thesis: Pornography is big business–with $10 billion to $14 billion in annual sales. The author, Frank Rich, suggests that heterosexual pornography is bigger than any of the major league sports, perhaps bigger than Hollywood. Porn is “no longer a sideshow to the mainstream…it is the mainstream,” he says.
The idea that heterosexual pornography is a $10 billion business is often credited to a study by Forrester Research. This figure gets repeated over and over. The only problem is that there is no such study. In 1998, Forrester did publish a report on the online “adult content” industry, which it pegged at $750 million to $1 billion in annual revenue. The $10 billion aggregate figure was unsourced and mentioned in passing.
For the $10 billion figure to be accurate, you have to add in adult video networks and pay-per-view movies on cable and satellite, Web sites, in-room hotel movies, phone sex, sex toys and magazines–and still you can’t get there.
According to Adult Video News (AVN), an industry trade magazine, Americans spent just over $4 billion to buy and rent adult videos last year. This figure is baseless and wildly inflated. From there, the numbers get even more obscure.
Tossing in the Internet will add less than $1 billion to the total porn pie. The 1998 Forrester report pegs the online adult content market at $750 million to $1 billion, which was an increase from its initial estimate of $150 million. When a study admits that its initial result was off by at least 80%, it’s hard to be confident in the new result. In any event, Tom Rhinelander, a Forrester research director, says they have given up trying to put a price on porn–either on the Internet or otherwise.
Its rival research outfit, Net Ratings, tracks the number of visitors to porn Web sites. It says that in April 2001, there were 22.9 million unique visitors to porn sites. This says nothing about how long each visitor stayed or whether they spent a dime. In any event, the number of visitors is less than the number who visited news sites (41.1 million), finance sites (34.2 million) or greeting card sites (25.5 million). When was the last time you heard anyone talk about how greeting card sites dominate the Net?
The Business Of Smut: What Is It Worth?
Adult Video $500 million to $1.8 billion
Internet $1 billion
Pay-Per-View $128 million
Magazines $1 billion
Total $2.6 billion to $3.9 billion
Sources: Adams Media Research, Forrester Research, Veronis Suhler Communications Industry Report, IVD
It is often said that heterosexual pornographers are the only ones making money on the Internet. Certainly, there are a lot of porn sites and many assume that they wouldn’t be there if they weren’t profitable. But that assumption is baseless.
Playboy (nyse: PLA – news – people ), which calls itself a men’s magazine rather than an adult magazine, lost money last year, as did New Frontier Media (nasdaq: NOOF – news – people ). There are thousands of e-commerce sites that still exist despite never having made a profit. There are millions of personal sites and fan sites whose publishers have no intention of ever profiting. Why are porn sites, of which there are an untold number competing fiercely with each other, necessarily any different?
What about pay-per-view? The entire legitimate “a la carte” movie business, including satellite and cable pay-per-view, was just $642 million last year, says Tom Adams, president of Adams Media Research, which tracks video sales for the industry. If sex movies get 20% of the legitimate movies, that adds $128 million to heterosexual pornography’s gross.
Adding pay-per-view to the Internet and video sales and rentals, the sum total is about $2.9 billion. Is it possible that adult magazines add another $7 billion–which would have to come in sales since they have minimal advertising? Hardly, when you consider that the entire consumer magazine market in 1999 grossed $7.8 billion (sales plus advertising), according to the Veronis Suhler Communications Industry Report.
The Times Magazine concludes there may be no other product in the entire cultural marketplace that is more explicitly American, going so far as to call it “mainstream.” We have no idea how “explicitly American” it is, though we suspect men in other countries like to look at naked women, too.
What heterosexual pornography lacks is cultural resonance, it also lacks in financial clout. The industry is tiny next to broadcast television ($32.3 billion in 1999 revenue, according to Veronis Suhler), cable television ($45.5 billion), the newspaper business ($27.5 billion), Hollywood ($31 billion), even to professional and educational publishing ($14.8 billion).
When one really examines the numbers, the porn industry–while a subject of fascination–is every bit as marginal as it seems at first glance.
SHE WOULD HAVE REACTED IN THE SAME MANNER IF SHE HAD ATTENDED AN ADULT NOVELTY EXPO. (minus the fisting part, yuck!) I’LL BET SHE WOULD BE DISGUSTED BY A PLAYBOY MAGAZINE.
I am well aware of the heterosexual porn industry’s perversion too. I do not ever recall an article that was so revealing exposing the sub-human display of sexual debauchery – combined with such arrogance that is anchored by impunity! I am executing equal judgment on both industries (heterosexual/homosexual)both are purveyors of garbage that undermine the social values of society exacting a toll on us all!
Exit Camelot, Enter Dante’s Inferno.
armyblue,
Well put.
Returning to that Hysterical Perry Prayer Circus: I couldn’t agree more with you Koos-Koos. It’s nothing but a Right-Wing political road show, meant to “honey-up” the hearts and minds of the primitive, superstitious masses, who believe that prayer is going to change a whole lot in this country and put an end to the “culture war(s)”.
Yes, talk about pushing your silly agenda on millions of citizens who (thank goodness) strongly believe in and want to uphold the Separation of Church and State. Would be very nice of you, Mr. Perry to substantially curb your vanity and your gross obtrusiveness. (Same story with that ridiculous college gun campaign of yours: a disgrace to America as a purportedly civilized country. See the website: “Dangerous Texas Guns On Campus Bill Dies, Thanks To Pressure From Gun Violence Prevention Groups”
http://handguncontrol.com/media/press/view/1394/
Oops! cut to early here is complete sentence.
“The American male is going down. Are we just going to just stand there and let it happen?”
Oops that should be “lose his wife”
Wrong again, Marriage is a relationship between one man and one woman anything else is damaging to society. To attempt to destroy marriage in this manner is wrong for families and wrong for the country. While you are making up words, how about Homosexism the worst attack on the stability of American culture? GOD BLESS AMERICA!
And on and on and on and on and on goes Dr Bill Mabuse, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
Aw,c’mon Frederick – Jesus loves you and so do I!!!!
Will God judge two men for loving, or one man for hating those even though they did nothing to harm him?
Whatever happened to “Love thy neighbor?”
How about we stay out of other people’s bedrooms and just enjoy what we get to enjoy. We all get one life, it is short and won’t really be remembered after our grandchildren die. So in this short and bleak existance, let’s do what has yet to be done.
So two men kiss? Not my problem.
Two women love each other? Not my buisness.
If we don’t like it, let’s overlook it and end this incessant debate. Instead of yelling at two people for loving one another, let’s all go outside and enjoy the air while we can. Tomorrow could be your last day. Is arguing over who puts a ring on who’s hand how you want to enjoy it?
Hello Moderators, what’s going on? could you please do something about the placement of our latest posts? June 21 appears right above June 17. Not what you had in mind for us, correct???? Oh, and, um, once upon a time the “ITALICS”an BOLD-FACED buttons functioned beautifully. We would very much appreciate a proper “reset”. Thak you SOOOO MUCH!!!!!
My opinion, about two things, will absolutely never change.
First, “Gay,” is the wrong word for those people, who are about the most miserable people around (if you ever stand on the streets where the, erroneously-called, Gay Bars are and there’s a firehouse, nearby, you’ll see the ambulances leaving, on a regular basis, to go to suicides and they’re drug addicts and alcoholics…simply because they’re so unhappy!
Secondly, if we give them the right to marry, effectively destroying yet another of God’s intended ways in the USA, they’ll just want something else and it’s anybody’s guess what that will be.
My comparison to this fact is simple: In 1963, Maddalyn Murray-O’Hare demaned Bile reading and prayer be removed from the public schools. That was given her, by a very liberal Supreme Court and, within a few years, the system wanted to institute Sex Ed. classes, though not teaching that sex should be ONLY between a married man and woman. They, also, wanted to teach very young children, whose emotions aren’t ready for sex ed, in the first place, that homosexuality is an alternate lifestyle, so it’s obvious they’re only interested in a sinful reign of terror!
Then, they wanted to teach evolution, alone, as how man originated – although no one .. not even Darwin, who renounced his own theory on his deathbed, can prove it and, pretty soon, the text will probably demand that no God exists.
I know, all too well, how those, who are in the wrong, and are exalted can change the landscape. I was deafened at the age of ten and, when I entered the Georgia School for the Deaf, a bunch of idiots demanded those Deaf kids, who had never heard and, therefore, didn’t know how to sound out words, were “bad” if they couldn’t get to the level I was on.
The idiots, now, are probably demanding that children of Christian parents are not educated properly, because their parents’ faith. And, when the parents’ faith demands that their own children obey the Word of God, which has absolutely NEVER been proven false and the system demands the opposite, the system is leading those little children into a lifetime of confusion.
In the same Scirpture, Paul wrote, “…God is not a God of confusion, but of peace…” So, if He’s not causing this confusion…Who is?
Gary,
Sir, you are a man of vision and conviction. My prayer would be that you are enriched by our Heavenly Father: that your steadfastness to His Will would be like an ANCHOR to protect you in the raging sea of social confusion that society is experiencing!
In His Love,
Bill
OK, let’s settle this SSM issue once and for all. If God intended for homosexuality to be a “LEGITIMATE LIFESTYLE”, then why did he empower a “MAN” and “WOMAN” with the gift of “REPRODUCTION?” Not “MAN and MAN” or”WOMAN and WOMAN.If I am wrong show me the first “PREGNANT” male, or the first female that can “INSEMINATE” herself naturally. Homosexuals know that without “RECRUITMENT” their goose is cooked,so they spread their perversion in our schools,churches,etc. That is why we MUST crush all attempts everywhere this plague rears itself. We must call upon God and His wisdom,seek His guidance in this battle to preserve the institution of marriage/family – remember Our God is GREATER!
Yeah, stupidity, really DEEP STUPIDITY, knows no bounds, eh? Well, if reproduction must be considered such a crucial issue in the perpetuation of homosexuality, how come this phenomenon had survived the MILLENNIA? The ancient Greek as well as the Babylonians and Canaanites were already quite familiar with homo- and bi-sexuality. So, what are you rambling about? In fact homosexuality can be seen as a fully natural regulative “mechanism”, completely in accord with nature’s struggle to keep the explosive population growth we’ve seen during the past few centuries at least somewhat in check. Just use your pea-sized brain a wee bit properly for a change!!!!!
Yes, you are many, so were the Unclean Spirits your own Jesus drove into a herd of swine……..
Ferderick says:
Well, if reproduction must be considered such a crucial issue in the perpetuation of homosexuality, how come this phenomenon had survived the MILLENNIA?
If Satan is to reap his “ETERNAL CROP”,his demonic seed needed to be planted somewhere in the framework of time – so that come harvest time he would have a “FULL BOUNTY.”
Very sad and alarming news from the general health care front
UNITED NATIONS — Nearly two-thirds of deaths in the world are caused by noncommunicable diseases such as cancer, diabetes and heart and lung disease which are rapidly increasing at a cost to the global economy of trillions of dollars, according to U.N. estimates and preliminary results of a new study.
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said in a report circulated Monday that while the international community has focused on communicable diseases such as HIV/AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis, the four main noncommunicable diseases “have emerged relatively unnoticed in the developing world and are now becoming a global epidemic.”
According to the report, 36 million people died from noncommunicable diseases in 2008, representing 63 percent of the 57 million global deaths that year. Nearly 80 percent of deaths from these diseases were in the developing world, and 9 million deaths were of men and women under the age of 60, it said.
Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06/21/1288806/un-deaths-up-from-cancer-diabetes.html#ixzz1Q5cay1f9
So, KUDOS, NOTHING BUT KUDOS to Michelle Obama who’s trying to let us realize the importance of educating youngsters on the advantages of HEALTHY DIET RULES.
So, lets see if I understand this properly. It is better to feed a child with materialism -and “CONDEMN”- their soul for HELL; rather than feed them with the Word of God and give them “ETERNAL LIFE?” Yep, this sounds like Barry’s Philosophy alright, but in this instance – it’s the Queen of the Food Police!
OK, got my calculator out and let’s see here……. $35,800 X 600 that comes out to $21,480,000.00 – provided my math is correct. WOW! Just think of all the “POSITIVE THINGS” that could be accomplished with that amount of money. But wait, I seem to recall a liberal comment on this forum regarding how us “Fundies” waste money to change the world. So, you mean to tell me that this extravagant amount being raised for: despicable,destructive, debauchery is money – “WELL SPENT?” ….. I rest my case.
Eternal Life? ETERNAL DELUSION you’ll rather mean!!! Come up with a really intelligent argument, if only for once, Bill. Your constant rambling about hell and eternity in a totally imaginary land of the Elves has become so completely worn out and boring, it’s as if you’re expertly hooked to an endlessly looped drone tape-machine: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Yes, I can hear you whining, Sorry Folks, it’s really the only song my dear mom taught me. I’ll have to make do……..
The queen of the food police? Well, shall we call you the King of the Medieval Hate police (calling homosexuals RATS; I’m sure you’ll have earned a few extra bonus points for your eternity in “heaven” with your lordy…. Michelle isn’t slandering anyone or forcing anybody to live a healthy life and honor what you Christians call a “temple of god”(?): the wonderful human body. It doesn’t mean a thing to you, huh, that millions upon millions of Americans are stuffing their bodies with pure junk food, day by unholy day; gorging trans-fatty acids by the truckloads; salt, enough to turn practically everyone of our precious rivers into veritable “inland seas”, etc. In Europe folk have been calling obesity “the American disease” for decades already. Couple of years ago a Frenchman pointed out four ladies to me strolling along Boulevard Saint Michel in Paris . Ah des Américaines, sans doute, hein? He was merely referring to their huge, tubby-like behinds, as fat as an elephant’s.
Not to mention the billions of dollars spent annually (and spent quite unnecessarily) on barely middle-aged cardio-vascular SODS. Well, it’s you backward Conservatives who, apparently, wholeheartedly endorse and reinforce this sorry culture of (fully premature) deaths. But, um, Mr. McDonald’s & Friends & Collueges will undoubtedly feel very much obliged………..
Oh MODERATORS, the POSTS-DISPLAY MESS is bothering us once again. The latest posts show up way above much earlier ones. Could you please, please, please mend this nagging error situation asap???? Thank you very, very much!!!!!
Gay Marriage will now be legal in New York State, and the only people effected by the new law will be the gay people wanting to get legally married. I am happy for them. The only marriage a person should concern themselves with is their own.
Peace and happiness to all!
VICTORY, VICTORY, VICTORY. We’ve won, we’ve won, we’ve won. I’ve been jumpin’ up and down here in my room practically all afternoon. New York’s Sodomatown now: HOORAY,HOORAY,HOORAY. What a relief. Oh, I’ll be celebrating the occasion with a whole bunch a friends tonight ’till the wee hours. Maybe we’ll hop over to the baths for an extra treat. Aren’t you going to open a couple a champagne bottles, Billie, to show your empathy and your gratitude (albeit vicariously)?? Come on man, be a good sport, stop blubberin’ and complainin’, get over it, take a real strong sleeping pill tonight; will do ya worlds of good!!! Wow, we’ve won; California here we come, woootch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been a Republican my entire political life and that has been a long, long, time. However if they are getting confused as to the parties traditional beliefs and are starting to waver and cave in on these issues then goodbye GOP., Hello Tea Party. I want a party that stands for something and is not afraid to stand up and be counted.
For the last few years republican citizens have been maligned,made fun of,(especially in the south), and ridiculed by the Democrats who have fired at will in the news papers and on the television while our Republican leadership has either caved in,turned the other cheek, or in the worse case scenario joined the opposition.(ie. RHINOs). Please. What kind of leadership and representation is this?.
Right now I feel like a man without a party, but that could change very soon.
Well, lotsa luck with your so-called Tea Party, but as far as I’m concerned, those “Tea Partyists” belong wholly in the backward, White Protestant Hetero Male Dominated 1950′s. Those days are long gone, my friend. America isn’t the great leading country anymore, as I’ve said so often before. Brazil, China and India have already surpassed this country beyond belief. I’m very sorry, but you simply can’t turn back that fast moving clock. The Tea Party is nothing more than a society of lame DINOSAURS, screaming at the top of their lungs, but in fact as anachronistic as you can imagine and belonging – in fact – in a Natural History Museum’s showcase. Period.
I think there is a lot of confusion regarding the whole “gay marriage” issue. First let’s look at the issue from a pure, absolutely natural perspective, so as to get religion, fanaticism and politics out of the argument. Hysterical hetero-phobic or homo-phobic ranting, raving and name calling are not arguments.
I’ll summarize a lot, to keep it simple and as short as possible.
Going back way before Darwin, I think we can safely say that the basic mission of any species is to SURVIVE. Without survival, there is nothing. To survive, a species must REPRODUCE. And nature is very specific and picky about this. It stipulates, given our nature, HOW we reproduce and survive. And it is SO picky about this that, nature, not being obliged by “politically correct” rules and/or regulations, has a stiff penalty for not following its rules. The penalty is EXTERMINATION.
The DNA of the species that, through some defect, takes it in a direction counter to nature’s mandate is EXTERMINATED. It ends with the entity’s death. PERIOD. DO not pass go, do not collect $200. It stops there. Why? Because nature has no use for defective species members. It wants to insure the survival of the fittest. And the fittest must be able to reproduce fit species members.
Remember, nature doesn’t have to be politically correct. Natural law transcends the somewhat childish games politicians play when they think they know what they are talking about.
Now these defective members of the species don’t view themselves as such. They see themselves as “OK”. They “chose” their behavior. So now they are driven to prove themselves right. Their paradigm forces their “data inputs” to fit their model. And they still feel the “urge to reproduce” – as a matter of fact, they have to, since not doing otherwise would prove their model wrong.
So many become predators, sexual predators, in an effort to “create” or “reproduce” their kind. Many try to replicate the experiences in others that they experienced and which originally moved them to their abnormality (in nature’s terms). Others, being more meek, seek to legitimize their relationship with a significant, and equally defective (in nature’s terms)”other”, and use that as the internal process of justification.
Now, the “problem” arises when the issue is taken to the political arena. Politicians, in general, are “power whores” (if you’ll pardon the accurate expression). They seek power and once achieved, they will do whatever they can to retain it. There are some exceptional, ethical souls, but they are few and far between. To the extent that they spot a population segment they feel they can exploit in order to retain power, they will look for what they can offer that population segment and offer it, regardless of the rationality, or lack thereof, or ethics, or lack thereof, behind their offering.
Different interest groups are aware of this and will feed these politicians money, support, propaganda and what have you, in order to buy whatever legislation they feel serves their needs. This includes all kinds of defective interest groups: from pharmaceutical special interest groups to homosexuals.
So we will see provisions for marriage between people of the same sex discussed, and approved or rejected depending on the circumstances. Now, before going on the the next observation, we need a clarification… specially when discussing the human species.
Under the system of laws established by our Forefathers, the concept of equality among men and the concept of men as the possessors of rights (as opposed to the state) was forefront. We know that it took some time (and a civil war) for that to get really implemented, but the seeds were there, and without the seeds the fruit would have never arrived.
So all our people are the possessors of rights. And they should be treated as such, unless they engage in actions against the rights of others. So even if our defective (in nature’s view) friends have their failings, they need to be respected, and treated humanely. They have every right to humane treatment.
Now, we get to the interesting point. Should the state sanction defective behavior? Should the state sanction behavior which does not promote survival of the species?
We know the DNA chain is exterminated by nature. That’s the way of nature. SO should the state attempt to reject natural law? We can argue that it has done that in many other areas, but that does not make it right. It is just as wrong in any other area. So why keep making the situation worse?
It is wrong for the state to sanction defective behavior. It is wrong, for example, for the state to sanction wanton murder. It is wrong for the state to sanction violence by one citizen against another. And it is wrong for the state to sanction behavior that results from a psychological defect that can have other consequences, all leading to a situation contrary to the natural law of survival and reproduction of the species.
I realize some will argue that they “chose” the abnormal lifestyle they did. Well, denial helps cover up reality but it does not change it. And I think we should treat those defective members of our species with compassion and understanding – as long as their behavior is not of a predatory nature. But we would (and should) reject ANY type of predatory behavior anyways. But absent that, compassion and understanding should be the rule. But this compassion is personal in nature. It does not the role of the state to condone or sanction the defects. To the extent it does, it harms the society it governs and eventually leads it to self-immolation.
So there is no need for name calling or insults. There IS a need for understanding… understanding the REAL nature of the situation and the NATURAL consequences of these actions. Start analyzing things more objectively and we may get somewhere.
As for the politics of the issue, forget about any kind of meaningful discourse from the major political parties and movements. Search deep enough and you will find that there are no FUNDAMENTAL philosophical differences among them. That’s why they always have people on all sides of an issue. The only safe route now is to pick your issues, analyze them using the premises used by the nation’s founders and take a stand.
And for those who are quick to dismiss the premises used by our nation’s founders, be advised that when the pilgrims arrived on our shores, their progress and technology was not all that different from the Egytians who organized their society nearly 5,000 years before. Yet with the founder’s premises, the few descendants and many immigrants who built this nation based on them, were able, in approximately (and ONLY) 200 years, put a man on the moon.
Don’t knock what you don’t understand.
The trouble with your argument, Tony is, that homosexuality need not be considered a “defect” at all. Quite the contrary. It even enhances the survival of our species, by `(at least somewhat) balancing the by now really explosive population growth, worldwide. Did you know that around 2030 the global population count will have reached the impressive number of 10,2 billion? We’re already practically unable to feed, house and medically treat 6,7 billion bodies, let alone 10,2 billion critters!!! Horrendous wars will be fought over territorial rights, water and food supplies, etc. No, it’s not at all homosexuality that’s a threat to our species and, besides, our planet as a whole. It’s our greed, our selfishness and (mostly religious) fanaticism that’s going to be our undoing at a certain point. Look how we’re demolishing our preious and unique rain forests and other natural resources, for purely perverse, materialistic reasons. And I’m not hearing a single Consevative Christian raise his or her voice in protest. On the contrary even, as far as I’ve been able to discern.
No Tony, it’s very easy to find a vulnerable scapegoat to ease your own very neurotic conscience, but it simply won’t work. Not at all
Freddy, you should be screaming at the abortionists, they’ve already beaten you on the “explosive population” front.
Way to go Tony! No wiggle room for any perverted narcissist to rebut to your post.
laughable to read “Tony” attempting to hold court on matters of Science. absolutely all actual research on the matter has demonstrated that homosexuality is a naturally present subset of human sexual orientation (it is NOT chosen) and that it is a behavior to be found throughout the multicellular animal kingdom, across every level of scale.
there’s no need to immerse further into this debate *here*, as these established facts are best targeted to the Courts, the Legislatures and the Mass Media. let those who share Tony’s ridiculously unscientific view save it for those “alternative museums” where Jesus is shown riding dinosaurs…as that view can not sustain itself at all in the community of ACTUAL scientists.
if you want to hold court about scientific matters, some scientific literacy is called for.
Spot on, Jeton, so now you see what I had to put up with the past couple a years on our Forum: Ignorance and Provincialism beyond belief. How can you ever succeed in trying to convince folk who have practically invested their very lives into a whole bunch of hopelessly outdated and totally ridiculous ideas about (homo)sexuality? You’d have to be some sort of Baron von Munchausen reincarnated!!!
By the way, are you serious about Jesus ridin’ Dinosaurs? An absolute scream, by Jove. Yeah, lord oh lord, this is America in AD 2011. Incredible!!!!
Got proof? Purely human homosexual union procreation? Come on…?????
Proof of what ma dear? That Jesus rode Dino’s or that there’s a Natural History Museem somewhere (DC, perhaps or Phoenix, Arizona??), featuring an item especially constructed for Creationist Fundy Morons?? I even watched a tv-show, years ago, presenting shots from a museum somewhere in the US where children could listen to stories about Dino’s being alive and well about 3000 years ago…….. So, I gather Daddy Abraham or Moses must have been able to cuddle up cozily with a nice little Dino beauty. And Jesus? Well, you know about that one: if he could walk on water and raise a man from the grave, why not raise a Dino Sweetie for his trip through the gates of Jerusalem?? Peanuts, really…….
Oh darlings, I’m having sooooo much fun here, since our triumphant ride in New York, Saturday 25. The party’s still ringing in my ears.
HELLO!!! Do you not even see your own demise?
Alas, you are too caught up in your so-called-isms amd fundy-isms.
Just as Tony explained…. the road to extermination.
As the Bible clearly states, you are blind in your sin.
Get real Freddy, instead of hiding behind your politically correct ahh I mean incoherent rants.
Sorry Marilyn, but you’re a “SINNER” JUST AS WELL: a “SLANDERER”,; JUDGING and CONDEMNING as readily and harshly as possible. According to your own bible you’ll be denied access to your so-called Kingdom of God as definitely as I myself. On the other hand: do you even know what you’re talking about, when blathering about that illustrious “Kingdom”? HOW can you be so sure that this is the “place” you’d want to enter into post-mortem? You babble and rattle about god this and god that, Jesus A to Z, but have you got ANY, really ANY PROOF, yes, even a shred of evidence that what’s written in that book of yours about the Transcendental “reality” you say you covet so dearly, isn’t ENTIRELY BASED ON THE FEVERISH IMAGINATION OF A GROUP OF MIDDLE-AGED TO VERY, VERY AGED MEN SUFFERING FROM VERY, VERY SERIOUS PSYCHIATRIC AND/OR NEUROLOGICAL DISEASES? Take, for instance, that “St” Paul of yours and his so-called Reclamation (or, if you like, conversion from a fanatic “Christian killer” to a, just as fanatic, Idolizer of “the Christ”. A very interesting story, I must tell you, from a LOGICAL POINT OF VIEW: full of really laughable contradictions. Here’s my main point: you’ll find three Remarkably DIFFERENT VERSIONS of exactly the same “event” right there in your bible. Compare Acts 9:7 to Acts 22:9.
In Acts9:7 we read: “And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, HEARING A VOICE, but SEEING NO MAN”. Did they see “a lightning bolt”? Not mentioned.
Acts 22:9 says: “And they that were with me, saw indeed the light, but THEY HEARD NOT THE VOICE OF HIM THAT SPAKE TO ME.
Now, can these two accounts be equally true??? Hardly, to say the very least.
(Oh yes in Acts 26:13-18, you’ll find yet another account, where the other men’s experiences aren’t even mentioned. They fell to the ground as did Paul, but this might very well have been from a start because of Paul’s “strange” behavior).
No Marilyn, to me these are the words of a very confused and “sick” man, an out and out religious fanatic, who, probably suffered from a disease we now know pretty much about: EPILEPSY. Read the “article” below, if you please.
In old Ireland, epilepsy was known as ‘Saint Paul’s disease’. The name points to the centuries-old assumption that the apostle suffered from epilepsy.
To support this view, people usually point to Saint Paul’s experience on the road to Damascus, reported in the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament (Acts 9, 3-9), in which Paul, or Saul as he was known before his conversion to Christianity, is reported to have a fit similar to an epileptic seizure: ‘…suddenly a light from the sky flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him: ”Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute me?”…Saul got up from the ground and opened his eyes, but he could not see a thing… For three days he was not able to see, and during that time he did not eat or drink anything.’
Saul’s sudden fall, the fact that he first lay motionless on the ground but was then able to get up unaided, led people very early on to suspect that this dramatic incident might have been caused by a grand mal seizure. In more recent times, this opinion has found support from the fact that sight impediment- including temporary blindness lasting from several hours to several days-has been observed as being a symptom or result of an epileptic seizure and has been mentioned in many case reports.
http://www.epilepsiemuseum.de/alt/paulusen.html
So, to recapitulate, not only does your bible not inspire me even a bit (except for a few passages concerning Jesus’ “fights” with the hypocritical Pharisees and his words of comfort for the sick and the bereaved. But mostly I find scriptural language totally unappealing and some of the myths amusing but not at all enlightening or comforting. No, give me my Tao stories and Zen koans, they’re non-judgmental and full of delightful relativity, as are many of Neal Walsche’s tales and comments. No blathering about sin and damnation, but very wise words of hope and optimism for the future. Quite enough for me.
Your post just proves how unwilling you are to address the main issue brought up about the IMPOSSIBILITY of procreation by homosexual relations.
Once again Freddy—get real and stop hiding behind the rants of disgust you hold for the Bible.
FYI- I’m very secure in my salvation and don’t need you to interpret something you despise—think about that!
Oh, please, please, please, Marilyn, we’ve had this discussion a million times before, so to speak. Why are you so hopelessly insistent? Of course I’m aware of the impossibility of procreation through homosexual intercourse. Well, yes, so what? Despite the fact of their “(gay)relational” barrenness, gays have very well survived the millennia. The phenomenon simply won’t go away. (As is the case with religiosity just as well, mind you!!!!!). And FYI, many women suffering from severe endometriosis will appear to be permanently infertile . Should they be deprived of their constitutional right to marry? Should (openly declared) voluntary childlessness be (similarly) “punished”?
As I said so often before homosexuality, probably, constitutes a fully “natural” regulative” mechanism, contributing to the balance of our species-specific birth rate. But so do a (small) number of physical afflictions, as do epidemics, pandemics and the occurrence of natural disasters. It’s the way our universe is – or, at least, seems to be – wired. No Buddha, Jesus or God appears to be willing or even able to change all that. You’ll have to learn to live with the fact.
Homosexuality WILL BE HERE FOR AS LONG AS SEXUALLY ACTIVE BEINGS EXIST. We’ve been hearing the message for ages: God will soon put an end to it all, and it’s still not happening.
Your right Freddy, homosexuality and homosexuals will exist just as the Bible explains—sin will abound. And just as the repeated truth here explains, God provides a way to redeem and restore the sinful man. Natural law provides common sense to the ordered and perfectly created blueprint for the human race to continue, that is offspring through heterosexual relations. Sadly, your doctrine requires siphoning-off the heterosexual population for selfish pleasure and then even bashing the heterosexual population for standing up to you. It’s the “natural selection” union that provide the offspring. So why am I sickened by the absolute fervent “push” by homosexuals to jam educational diversity down the innocent minds of 5 year old children or televising shows with alternative families as if its normal, forcing junior high and high school students to attend Harvey Milk indoctrination assemblies, etc, etc. It’s because that is the only way for homosexuals to add to their defective population. Kind of like stealing the chicken from the coup and expecting the egg to be there in the morning. Totally moronic thinking. And the death of a perverted society.
So keep up your nonproductive behaviour and let nature dictate your future. In the meantime, keep your distance from our children. And parents keep your children young and old protected from all the predatory manipulations of the homosexuals. (at all cost!)
Well, my dear, YOU are jamming your BIBLICAL NONSENSE, your LIES and your LAME MYTHS down the throats of all and sundry. And you dare talk about indoctrination? Come on, Mater Mary, don’t make me laugh. Your perverse scare tactics with all your endless drones about hell and eternal damnation will, of course, be of special significance to the out and out GULLIBLE, not to properly educated folk, I can assure you. Oh yes, about that (homo)sex education: you’re really wasting your time warning your “disciples” about the so-called (Gay) predators. To quote your own bible: (S)he who has ears will hear [our message of truth anyway, namely: the GAYS ARE HERE AND THEY’RE HERE TO STAY.] Period.
We will scream our message from every damned rooftop in town; it’s our constitutional right and we’ll avail ourselves of it wherever and whenever possible. Yes folks, we conquered New York, now we’re on our way to Calif (no not the Bagdad one, just the one out West. Oh, oops, it’s Caliph, of course)……….. Oh yeah, I can hear you laughing, don’t tell me otherwise, don’t lie to me!!!!! Have a great weekend. Ah, we’ll be throwing an AFTER-PARTY, come Sunday, and we’ll drink to your health. Great, eh?
YES FREDERICK GAYS ARE HERE TO STAY. SO ARE EVERY OTHER KIND OF PERVERTED SICKO. YOU HAVE ONLY GAINED GROUND BECAUSE OF SICKO FEDERAL JUDGES WHO WERE NOT ELECTED BY THE POPULACE. THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE HAVENT FALLEN FOR YOUR PROPAGANDA OF VICTIMHOOD. YOUVE MANAGED TO
CONVINCE WEAK MINDED IDIOTS THAT YOURE STRUGGLE IS THE SAME AS THE
BLACK CIVIL RIGHTS STRUGGLE OF DECADES AGO. WHAT AN INSULT TO BLACKS.
WE WHO THINK THAT GAYS ARE LIKE DOGS SEEKING THEIR OWN VOMIT DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TRY TO BASH YOUR HEADS IN OR HARM YOU IN ANY WAY, BUT WE DO HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO SCREAM OUR MESSAGE OF OPPOSITON TO YOUR AGENDA FROM EVERY DARN ROOFTOP IN TOWN. ALSO THE RIGHT TO CAMPAIN AND VOTE FOR EVERY PROPOSITON 8 THAT COMES ON A BALLOT.
Yes “Newton”, you are a really dignified representative of 21st century American Civilization, of Conservative America that’s perpetually shaking its finger at others (Muslims, Communists. Socialists, Liberals), supposedly because of their extremely violent or “freedom-hating” attitudes. And now look at yourself, look at your own BARBARIC MEDIEVAL MENTALITY, WANTING TO – IF YOU COULD- “BASH [OUR] HEADS IN OR HARM US IN ANY WAY YOU CAN”. Yeah, that’s precisely what you did to the Blacks 50 years ago (listen to Billie Holiday’s song STRANGE FRUIT!!!) and now you raise your OUT AND OUT Hypocritical voice to try and sweeten our colored brothers’ ears.
You’re a totally pathetic lot, I can tell you, only worth spitting at, as gay youths are rightfully doing these days during your lame anti-day protests. Go ahead scream as loud as you please, we’ll answer your wolf’s howl fully in kind. Don’t worry. Oh yes, and in case you didn’t know, this is a REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY, meaning that our legislators are fully entitled to bring central social issues up for voting, without consulting the so-called people on every damned occasion.
Women, Blacks and Gays have suffered more than long enough under your senseless (White Conservative Male) tyranny. THOSE DAYS ARE DEFINITELY OVER MY DEAR!!!!!! PRAY FOR COMFORT AND PEACE OF MIND IF YOU MUST……..
LIKE I SAID FREDERICK, I AND OTHERS HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO OPPOSE YOUR PERVERTED GAY AGENDA BUT NOT TRYING TO BASH YOUR HEADS IN OR TRYING TO HARM YOU IN ANY WAY. THE GAYS HAVE DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB OF PORTRAYING THEMSELVES AS VICTIMS. BUT THEN AGAIN NOW DAYS ANYONE CAN CLAIM VICTIMHOOD. AS WE KNOW GAYS CAN , BLACKS STILL CAN, WOMEN, MUSLIMS, SOCIALIST,COMMUNIST,FAT PEOPLE, SHORT PEOPLE, BALD PEOPLE,
UGLY PEOPLE,CONVICTED CRIMMINALS,JEWS CATHOLICS, EXHABISHONIST, NUDIST,
PHYSICALLY CHALLENGED,MENTALLY OR SOCIALLY CHALLENGED,PEOPLE, ATHIEST
EVEN BLONDE BLUE EYED WHITE PEOPLE WHO ARE CHRISTIANS CAN. EVERYBODY
WHOEVER THEY MAY BE CAN CLAIM VICTIMHOOD. I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT HAVING MENTIONED THEM , BUT I COULD GO ON FOREVER.
This concept of two people of the same gender marrying is madness. Cheney says, “I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish.” Really? How about incest, paedophilia or polygamy. Should not a woman be able to marry her own daughter as long as the daughter is age of consent? Why not? I could a thousand times see polygamy as a movement, but Homosexuality? If truth be known, I think the formoer vice-president is trying to hide the pain of what his daughter has become. This has been, in the past, termed as the vice of the rich; the indolent, those with more time on their hands than they ought to have; those who have rejected maturity. “Playing doctor” for youth is natural. It is the exploration of sexuality with another child and trusted friend. However, as one grows older, maturation should take place. Affluent societies such as our own, where pornography and sexual titilation of every sort, too many have exercised the option of rejecting responsibility and maturity. Thus, this essential growth is short-circuited. As the world’s most affluent society, we are most susceptible to this degenerative practice. One’s thoughts out be brought back to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. The aggressive and pernicious evil that consumed these two places should speak volumes. The God upon whom we draw our natural rights and is the Arbiter or right and wrong, has, in no uncertain terms, defined sodomy as moral tirpitude. This is where we are heading as a society in our continual “Slouching Toward Gomorrah.” One may excuse this vice as being genetically hard-wired. If so, precisely what is the gene that switches on the behavior, and, if the gene be discovered, ought the parents of such a child be permitted to abort the child in the whomb? Jewish Radio talk-show host, Dennis Prager, has rightly said, “We are becoming a nation of moral idiots.” Those who know this highly intelligent, wise and gracious man, know he is not name-calling; he is stating a fact. Ideas have consequences. Somebody is going to have to be “in the closet.” It is either homosexuals or those who believe it to be moral tirpitude. Choose now and speak clearly and be prepared to live with the consequences of your choice.
Also, in response to a prior comment by by Fredrick H where he states that opposition to homosexual marrige is primarily from, THE FEVERISH IMAGINATION OF A GROUP OF MIDDLE-AGED TO VERY, VERY AGED MEN SUFFERING FROM VERY, VERY SERIOUS PSYCHIATRIC AND/OR NEUROLOGICAL DISEASES.” So, he defines people with epilepsy as people with this “very, very serious psychiatric disease.” Let us not forget that some of the more noteable minds of man, such as Socrates, Napolean and Julius Caesar, et al, had epilepsy. Those of us with loved ones who suffer from epilepsy know that Fredrick H’s remarks are ugly, mean-spirited, bigoted and reprehensible. He doesn’t need to make life more painful for those who have suffered enough pain in life as it is. May people like Fredrick H join their ranks some day. To be dismissive of another’s views because they have epilepsy and to alienate them from the marketplace of ideas and the social discourse is cruelty.
That being said, the primary reason for this response was to address Fredrick H’s anti-Christian screed against the Apostle Paul and Christianity. In it he states, “In Acts9:7 we read: ‘And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, HEARING A VOICE, but SEEING NO MAN’. Did they see ‘a lightning bolt’? Not mentioned.
Acts 22:9 says: ‘And they that were with me, saw indeed the light, but THEY HEARD NOT THE VOICE OF HIM THAT SPAKE TO ME.’
Now, can these two accounts be equally true??? Hardly, to say the very least.”
Yes, they most certainly can both be equally true. Frerick H is one of those of whom the Scriptures describe as one who “wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction.” I don’t like saying, “Well, duh, but… isn’t it about time we put on our thinking caps? It isn’t very diffifult to figure out that those who travelled with Paul saw some luminious phenomenon and heard an indecipherable voice.” If Fredrick H knew the slightest thing about epilepsy, he would know that those around the one having a seizure do not themselves see see bright lights and hear unintelligble voices. Mr. Fredick’s conclusion is an anti-intellectual and specious argument indeed. And as for the practice homosexuality, a specie or society that cannot or will not reproduce itself is invariably and unarguably headed for extinction. Now tell me about how scientifically or morally innocuous homosexuality is. It is no small matter. To cut us loose from our Judeo-Christian moral understanding is to philosophically strip us naked and without any foundation to protect the rights of either ourselves, our fellow citizens or our posterity. Without God, “inalienable rights” cannot exist. They then become very alienable and the province of those who can impose suffienct force to gain control of that government power. The “Lord of the Flies” impulse then comes to the fore. To take Fredrick H’s position, you must sooner or later come to the conclusion that indeed, might makes right. Thus, who can condemn a Stalin, Mao or Hitler? It’s merely a matter of your biased opinion. Moral understanding then becomes a phantom that moves about in the mists of the mind of man; catching glimpses but having nothing definitive or objective to hold onto.
CARICATURIZATION? No? Well, it’s derived from the word CARICATURE, which in plain Russian (……..) means comic exaggeration, a travesty. And that’s exactly what you’re doing here: blowing up the whole point of interest here way out of proportion. Of course, everyone (from teachers to prostitutes to evangelical fanatics) can claim a big, fat “sorry-status” for themselves. Yeah, but then what? Do all these categories you mentioned share (an even remotely) equal standing of social vulnerability? Ever heard of a League of Blondes organizing sit-ins, street protests or state-wide flyer campaigns to bring their “cause” to the attention of the populace at large? Well I bet my feet you haven’t. No my dear, you’re really comparing horses to stones here. Besides, “victimization” is not even the main point here. As far as I’m concerned the core issue simply concerns the right of any ADULT to marry another (CONSENTING) ADULT, regardless of their gender, race, mental health condition or whatever demographic characteristic. Period. That’s all there is to it. So, I really can’t see the Big Problem here. What’s even more, America is THE ONLY ‘FREE’ COUNTRY IN THE WEST where this whole thing (i.e. open homosexuality and gay marriage) has been kicked into a point of well-nigh perpetual social debate.
No better things to keep yourselves wide awake over Fellow-Americans? Think about the twenty million non- or badly insured, the alarming spread of cancer and cardio-vascular diseases, due – predominantly – to our very unhealthy dietary habits; heavy environmental pollution, etc, etc. No, homosexuality should really be the least of our concerns these days. That’s for sure.
Sorry Newt, I forgot to include “EVER HEARD OF (CARICATURIZATION)?
And to MED BOW, Jeez man, I really have no time for your lame rebuttals. I’ve got much, much better things to do now. Sorry. Bye, bye; a kiss from Freddie…..
Surprise, surprise, here I am, against all expectations, with my own “lame rebuttal”. So here goes.
1) Please reread my note about Paul’s account and reread it carefully. You’ll see that our man recounted an event on two INDEPENDENT OCCASIONS, FULLY, BUT REALLY FULLY CONTRADICTING EACH OTHER. I’m sure that had this been a court case actually, the prosecutor would have grilled our friend (Paul) to shreds. You just can’t contend on one occasion that your companions had SEEN something but heard NOTHING and on quite another occasion that they’d HEARD A VOICE (or whatever) BUT SEEN NOTHING. It absolutely does not ad up at all. And, of course you can speculate (as you do) that these men had seen as well as heard something, but that’s not what’s been reported here. Bottom line? As far as I’m concerned (but who am I?): our buddy Paul appears to be a totally unreliable source of information here. PERIOD. Sorry.
2) Oh yes, I really had to laugh out loud about your contention that homosexuals may (or even will), eventually, bring about the extinction of our species, considering the principally non-productive nature of same-sex intercourse. Yeah sure, that would undoubtedly be the case if a substantial percentage of individuals restricted themselves to exclusively homosexual activities between the sheets. But you know very well that that’s the case with barely 2 to 3% of the population. Hardly a significant percentage to endanger the perpetuation of our species, to say the least, once again. No Med B, the real threats to our species are to be sought quite elsewhere: massive environmental pollution (and we’re well on our way in this regard), devastatingly detrimental behavioral patterns (junk food ingestion, smoking, drinking, drug abuse), shortage of food and water supplies and, last but not least gigantic natural disasters (on a planetary or even a fully cosmic scale: remember what happened to the Dinosaurs???).
3) So, it’s about time to stop this endless and senseless whining about homosexuality. As I said before, the phenomenon has survived the millennia and it simply won’t go away for a long, long, long while. Spend your energy on some really important (social) issues, such as the growing tensions between the “haves” and the “have-nots” right here in the US of A. Good luck.
frederick, federick. the scriptures say without any doubt that homosexuality is bad. you can try to justify your behavior all you want. anyone with any other deviant behaviors can justify their behavior also. youll never be happy. you already have the law on your side. plus the intimedation of millions who are afraid to tell you that your behavior is wrong. noone cares if you want to use another man as a normal man would a woman or if a woman wants to use another woman as a normal woman would use a man.but you want the right to flant your behavior in our faces, you want acceptance and legitamacy to your deviant behavior. besides the law you got hollywood on your side. i personally never will accept homosexuality as okay or normal.
for me personally and iam sure i speak for others if we were ever to meet the question of your orientation need not come up in any conversation. dont ask dont tell was one of the few things that bill clinton came up with that are good, you and i might could be friends if we play dont ask dont tell. you seem to be angry ,iam not angry with you. you are a son of god. he loves you, he loves all his sons and daughters but hates all deviant behavior of any and all of his children. to show you my sincerity i will nolonger answer you with what you call my rebuttals or caricaturizations and will only agree to disagree with you where homosexuality is concerned.
To act responsibly is a large part of freedom. Indulging in any practice that does harm to anyone is irresponsible. Indulging in an perverted lifestyle ie,,queers(strange activity)is definitely harmful to the well being of every American. God completelt destroyed two cities because of men and women lusting after one another. Have you noticed the state of affairs in this country lately? We are a Christian Nation, One Nation Under God. Even though we are a Christian Nation, we do not percecute others’ beliefs. Others’ beliefs whatever they may be are not perverted as in lusting man 4 man or woman 4 woman. Your blow hole was created for the release of toxins from your body, that’s it, period. An for anyone to stick their thing in someones’ poo hole is dangerously unhealthy not to mention just wrong. The term as it was coined back in the day,”if it feels good it must be right”, or “if it feels good, do it”, is a lie straight from Hell. Ever wonder why the politicians never talk about queers and how wrong and disgusting it is as a way of life? I do. We should insist that all of them run on a platform of homesexuality is not American!!! And what I have read here today tells me that whomever does will win the 2012 Election. Personally I find your perverted lifestyle repugnant. Thank you, RC
Oh yea! I can just see fredericka’s talking with his(her’s)(its) hand on his or hers or its hip…smoking a viginia slim…
What’s really perverted is your mind for believing in the crap about people you have absolutely no knowledge of or know anything about. Every person is an individual, not lumped into a group that you paint with the same brush.
And yes, I’ve noticed the state of affairs in this country lately. It’s not all messed up because of gay people. The straight majority is doing a bang up job. And since we are a Christian Nation and One Nation Under God, we need to start acting like it and treat one another with love and respect! That would make a huge difference in this world. I believe Jesus would suggest the same thing.
Peace be with you!
Oh guys this really is so incredibly tiresome. We’ve had this sort of “discussion” a million times before here on the Forum (for the past couple of years, actually). Well, enough is enough for me now. You’re entitled to hang on to your opinion, I am entitled to believe and endorse whatever I want. If you want to keep your stereotyped 1950′s point of view on this issue, please, go ahead, be my guest. I’m sure your precious lord will bless you a thousand fold for it…… OK? Bye bye and lotsa luck. I’ve got more intelligent things to tend to now. Adios.
When the Gay’s can Produce a Human Life as do a man and Woman then I will accept Gay Marriages but not before.
Troy, with the state of the planet’s over-population, as humans, we need to slow down in producing more babies. Marriage isn’t for the sole purpose in creating more babies, it’s two people coming together to share a lifetime commitment. I would respect marriage between a man and a woman a lot more if they were to stay together for life instead of 50% of their marriages ending in divorce. Sometimes, one man and one woman enter into marriage and aren’t mature enough to do what it takes to keep it going. If half the straight world can’t get it together when it comes to marriage, maybe gay people would do a better job.
I do not support gay rights in any way shape or form!
Furthermore, I am very upset at the states for gay rights, gay marriage,
supporting illegals, etc. These issues are the problem
with America, and the people are taking it on the chin. It
will end soon.
As a WWII Vet I watched what was going on in the world. In the 1950′s the communist party was unable to make headway in taking over America. To correct this they decided to take over one of the major political parties. They chose the democratic party to take over. Then they put out the word to their party members to “Take over the Robes.” They then worked guite succesably to take over the education system, and the legal system, Our youth are out of control because when they took God and the Bible out of the schools, the devil went in. Taking the Bible out of the school was like taking the speed limits off the roads. Disasters follow. The American birthrate is not sufficiant to sustain a nation. How are queers going to reverse that? We have murdered our taxpayers in the womb along with our workers. Our gay, marxist, islamist, illegal pres. is trying to bankrupt us into communism under sharia law. Unless things change we are in deep dodo. Our leftest education system is turning out a bunch of leftest dummies. When Japan came over here to build an Auto assembly plant They had a position that was filled with a highschool student. They could not find a highschool graduate to fill the job. They could not find a college grad, a masters grad. They had to hire a Phd to do what a highschool student was doing in Japan. We need to get back to our Godly roots that made this the greatest nation on earth.
JON, WITHOUT MEANING TO BE DISRESPECTFUL TO YOU OR TO INSULT YOU AND KNOWING YOUR RIGHT TO EXPRESS WHATEVER OPINION THAT YOU HAVE, I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU ON YOUR OUTLOOK OF GAY MARRIAGE IN COMPARING IT TO STRAIGHT MARRIAGE. SIN AND ABOMONATION DO NOT SEEM TO EXSIST IN THE VOCABULARY OF MODERN SOCIETY. IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF 99.9% OF ALL STRAIGHT MARRIAGES ENDED IN DIVORCE. TWO PEOPLE OF THE SAME SEX GETTING TOGETHER TO USE EACH OTHER AS TWO PEOPLE OF THE OPPOSITE SEX GETTING TOGETHER IS AN AMBOMINATION,LEGITIMIZING GAY UNIONS AS A MARRIAGE IS AN ABOMINATION,SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS AN ABOMINATION, ADULTRY IS, SEX WITH CHILDREN AND MINORS IS, SEX WITH ANIMALS IS ALSO. I CANNOT NAME EVERY SIN THAT THERE IS THAT IS OFFENSIVE TO THE LORD EXCEPT TO SAY THERE ARE MANY KIND LOVING HUMAN BEINGS WHO INDULDGE IN HOMOSEXUALITY, FORNACATION, ADULTRY, INTIMATE RELATIONS WITH ANIMALS AND OTHER ABOMINATIONS, BUT THEY WILL NOT RECIEVE FOGIVENESS IN THIS LIFE OR THAT TO COME UNLESS THEY REPENT. THE RULES OF REPENTENCE APPLIES TO ALL OF US.
Oh my, oh my, oh my, Our genius Reverend Newton is really presenting us GREAT, GREAT NEWS HERE. Yes, I’m truly impressed, very much impressed indeed. I also do think he’s got a special hotline with our Lordie up there, considering his knowledge concerning the consequences of our “unrepentant attitude” as LGBT ‘s. One day he’ll sit right there near the Hell/Heaven fence, a fine-smelling cigar glued to the corner of his mouth and snarl in the direction of the raging flames, AH SEE, I WARNED YOU BACK THEN, BUT YOU WOULDN’T LISTEN.
Oh Newt I’m already trembling my pants off, I really do………..
Ah, btw, I mustn’t forget this: You say that basically they’re all the same, homosexuality, bestiality, thingiality, you name it. So I’ve been thinking and finally found another, interesting “block” of basically highly similar phenomena: FUNDAMENTALISTIC HINDUISM. JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY and (last but not least) ISLAM. (And probably a whole string of other – scripturally inspired – religions). The details may be different, but the basic mentality is exactly the same, wherever you look within this particular “block”; meaning there is,
1) A total lack of creative intelligence guiding the reading of the foundational scriptures. Every word, every letter, is to be taken literally, so to speak.
2) The “truth” as presented in the so-called holy books (be they the Torah, the Bible, Koran or Bhagawat Gita) is to be considered of absolutely exclusive significance. No other text should or could be seen as (equally) divinely inspired.
3) In academic circles we say, Publish or Perish, well, “True” (i.e. Fundamentalist) Believers say: “Relish” (tremble and obey) or Perish. So, of course, dismissal of the alleged scriptural “truths” carries devastatingly detrimental consequences, or so we’re being told on every damned occasion.
Now, it’s precisely this moronic, medieval and totally unimaginative type of thinking that has completely alienated me from traditional religion. There’s no genuine comfort, joy or any awe-inspiring insights whatsoever to be found there, as far as I’m concerned. Period.
FREDERICK. ALWAYS WAS ,ALWAYS WILL BE PEOPLE WHO THINK THEYRE ENLIGHTED, SMARTER THAN THE PROPHETS OF OLD, IGNORE DEVINLY INSPIRED SCRIPTURE TO FIT THEIR LIFE STYLES OR AGENDAS WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. YOURE NO EXCEPTION. BUT FREE WILL OR AGENCY IS WONDERFUL WE ALL HAVE IT.
Ah, of course, it’s here once again: Free Will, the tried and trusted central pillar of you Believers. But, unfortunately, free will is not at all the core issue here. What’s at stake here is just plain, good old TRUTH, the truth of your biblical accounts to be more precise. So, as has been demonstrated on several occasions here on the Forum, particularly New Testament fanatics (notably Paul, the apostle) have come up with a whole list of “vices” (fornication, homosexual behavior, slander, larceny, etc, etc) carrying the penalty of exclusion from the so-called kingdom of god. Now, quite apart from the question what this is precisely, the Kingdom of God, the point is, whether you’d even want to inherit a niche “up” there, if you knew what it really amounts to.
The only “evidence” available, gleaned from the bible or the Koran cannot count as even remotely reliable. Because, in all honesty, direct, independent and unbiased verification is impossible. Of course, we all know about the “Near Death Experience-literature”. But quite literally these experiences regard the “brink of death”, not the state of (physical) death itself. What is even more, should or could all or even most Near death “travelers in spirit” be considered nicely virtuous in a biblical sense? We simply don’t know. Perhaps they’ve had a fine glimpse of the “Kingdom of Heaven”, whatever that maybe, but we haven’t got the faintest clue about their morality prior to their illustrious spiritual experience.
So your “ heavenly kingdom”” may be a great place to be, if it exists at all, but for the time being the only status I’m able to ascribe to it is a total imaginary and mythical one. Your “St” Paul couldn’t get the facts pertaining to his own seminal experience at the gates of Damascus straight, let alone any “fact” about the reality of the coveted kingdom of god. Give me a break, please! Your precious kingdom might be just as delusional as the phenomenon of God him or herself. Richard Dawkins is my hero.
Freddie, your theological musings are soooo off base, no wonder you live the way you do. When you (and only when you) get serious about your mortality and your relationship (or non-relationship) with God, will you embrace some civility of respect for others and maybe yourself. Oh, no need to attack Christians supposed attack on your chosen lifestyle, you are doing just fine yourself with these psychotic outbursts. So sad.
And by the way, your back! Contrary to your own declaration just a few days ago.
FREDERICK. FREE WILL IS THE CORE ISSUE HERE, CONCERNING THE SUBJECT OF THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFE STYLE. YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT REALLY IS.I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFE STYLE IS AN ABOMONATION IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD. AS IVE SAID THERE ARE MANY OTHER SINS OR ABOMONATIONS. FREE WILL IS EVERY SON AND DAUGHTER HAVING THE RIGHT TO CHOSE IF THEY WANT TO FOLLOW THE LORDS COMMANDMENTS OR NOT. THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS LIKE A CLUB BUT IN ORDER TO ENTER IT NONE OF US CHOSE THE RULES. IF WE WANT IN. WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE COMMANDMENTS. IF YOU OR I DONT WANT TO DO THAT WE WOULD BE IN LITERAL HELL TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD AND OTHERS WHO EARNED THEIR WAY IN IF WE WERE NOT WORTHY TO BE THERE. PEOPLE WHO DRINK AND DO DRUGS GENERALLY GRAVITATE TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO DO THE SAME THINGS. PEOPLE WHO CURSE EXCESSIVLY AND DO OTHER BAD THINGS GENERALLY GRAVFITATE TO OTHERS LIKE THEMSELVES. LITE ATTRACTS LITE AND DARKNESS ATTRACTS DARKNESS. IN THE END OUR ENTERNAL DESTINY WILL BE WHERE WE WOULD BE MOST HAPPY, AND HERE IN MORTALLITY EVERYONE OF US ARE DECIDING WHERE WE MOST WOULD LIKE TO BE. BY THE WAY FREDERICK IAM A SENESTIVE GUY, I WOULD FIND NO PLEASURE IN THIS LIFE OR THAT TO COME TELLING ANYONE I TOLD YOU SO.
Yeah Newt, it’s apparently that difficult (for you)to address a very simple and straightforward argument. See, you keep repeating your Biblical Rhetoric time and time and again. But there’s really no need to do so for me here, because I can assure you that I’m quite familiar with that DRONE by now. So please spare me your Caps Lock Mantras, please. No, for me the real issue still is (1) the REALITY OF AFTERLIFE as you care to depict it here and (2) a way of finding REAL HARD EVIDENCE for its validity (i.e. its VERY EXISTENCE!!!!!). You still have not addressed these points and, of course, I’ve been teasing you all along, because I very well know that you can’t provide the evidence I’ve been begging for, for such a long time. But let me inform you why I keep bringing up this point. You know, I do think you Fundamentalist Christians are absolutely incapable of even a modicum of HONEST OBJECTIVITY. Your endlessly repeated core mantra seems to be: yes, it’s included in our bible, so it must be true. Now, this is precisely what I’ve been trying to drive home all along. You keep coming up with a typically MOOT POINT. For, as you probably very well know, your bible is not the only book around displaying ideas about a so-called AFTERLIFE. Take the Hindu Bhagawat Gita and the Buddhist Pali Canon. Both of them do try to convince us that the life we’re living right now should not be considered the only one we’ll ever experience. To our Hindu and Buddhist friends Reincarnation is a hard fact (and that’s even so according to a fair number of empirical scientists). To them the Christian notion of life as a “one-shot affair” is really pure NONSENSE, and a hopelessly STUPID kind of nonsense to boot. The human life span would seem to be much too short to count as a setting for the “soul” to learn its transcendental lessons.
So there are (at least) THREE POSSIBILITIES to be pondered seriously here:
a) The whole rigmarole about Heaven and Hell as permanent abodes for either obedient or disobedient souls.
b) The idea of Reincarnation as an opportunity for the soul to learn new lessons every-time it enters the realm “of the flesh”. (Yes, even Hitler and Stalin will get a chance to make amends for their beastly manners on earth).
c) This (one and only) earthly life is all there is. Everything transcendent amounts to purely wishful thinking and primitive mythology. Our atheist friends will definitely nod yes here.
Now, please tell, HOW ARE WE GOING TO DECIDE OBJECTIVELY which one of these alternatives constitutes the “Real Truth”. To me This is a point of utmost importance, considering endlessly repeated argument that the gay lifestyle, as it is called, should not be granted a respectful status as it runs contrary to biblical teachings. Well, I’ll repeat myself for the sake of our discussion: we haven’t got any RELIABLE EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that these “teachings” HAVE BEEN DIVINELY INSPIRED at all. Several other texts of, what is called, a transcendental nature, notably the Taoist writings, Krishnamurti’s teachings and Neal Walsche’s Conversations with “God”, do not refer to the “sinfulness” of gay life in any way. How are we going to establish (the true level of) their trustworthiness? We just can’t and neither can we objectively determine your bible’s dependability (at least as far as its depiction of “transcendent reality” (heaven, hell, etc) is concerned. It’s all just pure speculation and ancient mythology. We might as well start worshipping Zeus, Apollo, Aphrodite and all the rest.
Congrats, All Newly Wed GAY and LESBIAN COUPLES in the New York Area. Many, many happy and prosperous years together. We all love you!!!
I have never seen so many uneducated hicks brag about their ignorance all in one place before! One woman even brags that she doesn’t “believe in science.” This means she sees no need to keep feces and corpses out of her water supply, no reason to cook or wash the worm larvae out of her food, doesn’t listen to radio, use a phone or a car? What an uneducated, prideful idiot. What is she doing using a computer and not being dead of dysentery? Hilarious.
Great, Rockin, exactly my idea. This is what “blind” faith does to infantilw aoula (all over the globe, of course). People who never learned to read critically, to think for themselves, to dig deeper into the background of their precious orthodox doctrines. It’s a bloody shame, really. The bible is quite clearly so chock full of the most unbelievable absurdities and inconsistencies, that only someone who barely made it through fourth grade, should be expected to have more than the tiniest scrap of faith and trust in what’s written in there. Yeah, this is America AD 2011, a veritable example to the rest of this planet How pathetic.
FREDERICK . FOOLS MOCK. DOUBT NOT BECAUSE YE SEE NOT. YE RECIEVE NO ANSWER UNTIL AFTER THE TRAIL OF FAITH. ABOUT THE NEWLY WED GAYS IN NEW YORK . I TOLD YOU FREDERICK YOU HAVE NO WORRIES. YOU GOT THE GOVT ON YOUR SIDE AND HOLLYWOOD ON YOUR SIDE AND YOUVE INTEMADATED ENOUGH PEOPLE NOT TO OPEN UP THEIR MOUTHS IN OPPOSITION. AND IF IT MAKES YOU HAPPY IAM GLAD THAT YOUR HAPPY ABOUT THE GAYS MARRYING IN NEWYORK.
Sorry, should be ‘infantile souls’, of course.
Oh, thank you Newt, thank you so much for acknowledging the fact that this is a free country indeed, where believers and non-believers, atheists, agnostics (like myself) and staunch Christians (like you yourself), gays and bi-sexuals and straights alike, share equal civil rights (well, at least, up to a reasonably acceptable point). Of course, we all know that there are countries out there where folk enjoy even more, much, much more Freedom (such as Norway and The Netherlands, bless their hearts), but ok, I may and should be grateful for what I’m being granted even here. And yes, kudos, kudos for Hollywood and our Government(s). They, at least, know how to honor the shining glory of a postmodern era. Hallelujah.
FREDERICK. YOU ARE REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT NORWAY THE NETHERLANDS [ JUST TO NAME A FEW AS IDEALISTIC FREE COUNTRIES]? I BELIEVE YOU ARE SERIOUS. COUNTRIES WITH SOCIALISTIC GOVERNMENTS, NANNY STATES HIGH TAXES. KNOWN AS SOCIETIES WHERE ANYTHING GOES WITH RESPECT TO BEHAVIOR. NOT JUST HOMOSEXUALITY, BUT FREE LOVE HIGH ILLEGITAMATE BIRTHS. DRUGS PROSTITUTION.HOW MUCH HOMOSEXUALITY, FREE LOVE, DRUGS, THAT A SOCIETY ACCEPTS IS THE MONDERN DEFINITION OF WHETHER A COUNTRY IS TRULY FREE OR NOT.WITH RESPECT TO HOLLYWOOD. ITS RUN BY PEOPLE WHO STAND FOR NOTHING BUT STAND FOR EVERYTHING. BUT ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE BUYING IT MAKING EVERYONE THERE INVOLVED VERY RICH. RIGHT NOW IN HOLLYWOOD GAY IS THE WAY. IT MATTERS NOT, I TAKE SOLACE IN PSALMS 37.
ANYTHING GOES WITH RESPECT TO BEHAVIOR?
Oh Newt, come on, please, give me a break. These are typical Fox News, and cheap Tabloid style allegations, as far as I’m concerned. Have you done your research? Have you visited these countries? Have you seen with your own two eyes what’s going on in these places? I bet a full month salary that you haven’t. Well, I have been there myself, on several occasions even. I know for a fact, that in Amsterdam, for instance, one Town hall alderman’s been doing a very forceful job ridding the Red Light District of a lot of “mob-induced” prostitution, to the total dismay of female exploiting mobsters (I almost wrote “monsters”, which they are in a sense). But that’s not even the main point here (i.e. publicly condoned prostitution). You see, you’ll find prostitution everywhere around the globe. Even in a super heavy (pseudo)theocracy, such as Iran, where btw, it’s said that corruption by government officials abounds.
And, FYI, have a peek at this website, concerning (child) prostitution right here in the US.
http://www.darylwhicker.com/child-prostitution-growing-in-the-u-s-a/
Child Prostitution Growing in the U.S.A.
Human trafficking or otherwise called child prostitution is an American problem most people don’t even know about.
Most People think this only happens in other countries when in fact early statistics show more than 400,000 child prostitutes are in the U.S. alone, over 800,000 in the world.
According to the FBI the money in child prostitution is much higher than adult prostitution and this problem is getting worse!!!
So stop pointing your finger at other countries and cultures so sharply, because the sting of massive “illegal vices” is to be found right here in our oh so “Christian” land of Hope and Glory, where hypocrisy is surrounding us like the air we breathe till the end of our days, as I’ve said so often before….
Oh yes, and may I remind you that The Netherlands are ruled by a moderately Conservative government, as of 2010, most certainly not a bunch of Socialites. And in Norway the Social Democrats are in office nowadays, distinctly liberal thinking folk according to US standards, but their basic political philosophy is not even remotely akin to the classic Eastern European socialist tradition. You see, you Conservatives love to think and speak in terms of utterly black and white schema’s. Either you’re a staunch conservative free market capitalist or you’re a liberal socialist promoter of Government dominated socio-economic and socio-cultural policies. Not a shred of reality would seem to able to reside somewhere in between. Not a terribly intelligent way of conceiving or rather interpreting social realities worldwide, don’t you think?
Freddie, so you continue to whine about the imperfect worldly state of affairs…your temporal utopia is nowhere in sight but it seems as though you wallow in it. The gap for perfection remains forever unattainable for you. Either get over it or settle into the fact that they human race is intrinsically sinful. Once you hit bottom the only way to look is up.
And let’s not forget the man-boy club (a form of prostitution) NMBLA.
Oh good gracious heavens! There we go again with your eternal sin, sin, sin, sin, sin. Unable to come up with a really original refrain, my dearest Maryhon??? Anyway, what the hell do I care about your obsession with sin. Jeez. You know what I would call sin, if I were you? The beastly mentality of Super wealthy Conservatives, BILLIONAIRES really, who don’t give a damn about children starving by the millions all over the planet (especially in Africa) and keep whining endlessly about our so-called high tax rates. Yes, and most of these suckers call themselves Christians, born again and all. A disgrace to the Western World, if ever there’s been one to bemoan.
Oh, um, by the way, I do think you’ve been playing with those bottles of bourbon you’d left for the weekend, just a couple of minutes too long. Because nowhere in my last post above I’ve been able to find ANYTHING about “the imperfect state” of this world, as you call it. I was solely trying to get our friend Newton to use his Einsteinian brain just for once, at last. So Miss Mary Sin, either pay a visit to your ophthalmologist asap or try and practice just a wee bit of restraint with those “sweet bottles” of yours.
Instead of whining about worldly injustices, do something about it!! I do. I suppose your contribution is vile verbiage, yeah that probably makes you feel good, cloaking what you’re really contributing. Move on Freddie, this is old……
Exactly the same applies to you and your ilk, my dear. Instead of blathering perpetually about sin and all the things your fellow-citizens care to enjoy (sexually and otherwise), mind your own business, pray till you see blue, green and purple in the face and, finally, pay your dues to the community of the poor, the feeble and the vulnerable worldwide (as I do and as your lordie’s said to have commanded). Well, you’re a “born again Fundy”, so this shouldn’t be too much of a hassle for you, should it???
By using the term “gay marriage” I am assuming what is meant is hmosexual marriage. There is no such thing as gay marriage. A marriage is the union of a man and a woman.
No, it’s the union of a cat and a horse. Okay???
This country is doomed. If the power structure cannot discern the differance between right and wrong. as GOD sees it we are indeed ripe for judgement. The perverted lifestyle of homosexuals in GOD’s eyes is an abomination. I pray for America to repent. before it is to late.
Well Dr Lawrence Ekdahl, how are we supposed to be punished then? Oh, by the way, in Gospel according to Luke there’s an interesting verse: “SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS AND GIVE TO CHARITY”. And, mind you, it’s not a “socialist” President who’s said this. No, it’s to be found right there in your precious bible. So, if you don’t sell your possessions asap, Lawrence, you’ll be judged and judged severely! Do you hear me? You’ll land into that same pit of doom as all those “perverted” homosexuals, I can assure you…….. So, off ya go…… Nice Sunday sermon……
Homosexuality is a violation of natural law of the creation. They cant just complain about Christians ,because this is more than that.It is also a universal law issue.
Why do you assume you’re an expert in universal and natural law? No one is, but God. By the manner in which you express yourself, the meaning is convoluted at best. Also, your ability to write the English language is atrocious. With so much of your mental energy spent focusing on the lives of others and not our own, you may have lost the ability to think clearly. You will get further in life through LOVE. The alternative of judging others could hold you back.
Peace!
Why don’t we adopt the free-market and Biblical view of marriage (as it relates to marriage) and privatize it? Get the Feds, states, and local governments out of it altogether, and let the various families take responsibility for their marriages? Nowhere in the Bible did God EVER give a non-Covenant entity the authority to enforce His Covenant Law, so to allow the Feds or the states to define, legalize, and regulate anything to do with the institution of marriage is to violate the spirit of the Law.
Privatize marriage.
Actually, what I MEANT to say in my first sentence was “Why don’t we adopt the free-market and Biblical view of marriage (as it relates to civil government) and privatize it?”
I personally thing that (Homo’s) actual name being Queers, have a mental illness and needs to be dealt with regardless if people think or know that or not. Even if you disagree with me does not matter a homo truly has a mental illness of some kind, HIV or Aids resides mostly in Homo’s,Gays,Fruitloops,Queers,Transgender,Transvetites,you get the point, Why in the h*ll do they like playing in a Sewer Plant? That is just so so Gross! It Screams help me I have a mental illness!
By observing the manner in which you write, misspell, and implement the English language, you appear to be lacking in the mental department. Homosexuality is one of the three main categories of sexual orientation, along with bisexuality and heterosexuality, within the heterosexual-homosexual continuum (with asexuality sometimes considered the fourth). The consensus of the behavioral and social sciences as well as the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality is a normal and positive variation in human sexual orientation. You are evidently NOT a mental health professional. Being better educated on a subject will get you further in life than the baseless statement you made. Perhaps additional life experience will help to open your eyes and your mind to the reality of how a segment of the population actually lives and isn’t as twisted as your mind. In addition, it would also be beneficial to you in articulating a more mature expression of thought. You will then realize, being a thoughtless jerk doesn’t work for you as well as you assumed it would. Lastly, just because YOU think something is a certain way, doesn’t make it so.
What a gay occurence.There was a time when that word had some real meaning.Now it’s been wiped out of the dictionary and its original meaning destroyed.
There is something very odd or queer about this behaviour.It use to be considered to butt in or stick your face where it doesn’t belong was wrong; butt today there is nothing wrong with it.
Everyone knows this act is wrong and ultimately hate God for prohibiting these actions.All believe in God but do not believe that what He says He means or is necessary. And unfortunately there is such love of this world one denies a future world.Once this state is reached then you can figure it out.
These faculties are obviously directed towards generation or reproducing the human race and its continuation in existence.This is the primary purpose of these powers.Any other use is an aberration and unnatural or contrary to nature.
Just because one desires something does not entitle one to it nor does it become a right.
This act is contrary to nature and right reason and no one has a right to this.
This lust disorders the reason and the will.
If one centers one’s life on this kind of self love one is in grave danger for the world one must answer to is the Spiritual.
One can lust for many things besides those in the sexual order.But this kind of lust and others,such as money,power,material goods, is a kind of idolotry of self where one ends up worshipping self with a disordered self-love eventually excluding God or unltimately and willingly denying His existence or simply forgetting it.
It is not the material order where our hearts should rest.
As of today you can ASK, TELL and still safely STAY
No more HYPOCRITICAL games to play
So you vile Fag haters sorry to say.
Useless to try and chase gays away
Thank you, thank you, thank you a million times, President Obama
Sorry Frederick, but Obama did an injustice to our military. This will negative effects on our military. Here is a video of a strong woman confronting a homosexual pervert.
http://www.patriotupdate.com/videos/bristol-palin-responds-to-angry-homosexual
If these are the people you support, then I feel sorry for you. I hope you get some psychlogical help. Thank you.
Sook Young
Wife of the Samurai
P.S. William, you are wrong! Read Leviticus 20:13. It is wrong and a sin in God’s eyes.
Oh no Sookie, please, please, please, give me a break. A strong woman? What’s so strong about this TOTAL IDIOT, doing her moronic thing , (virtually) abusing a bull? She’s setting a fine example with this dim-witted “bull ride” isn’t she? If her dear little brother Trig had surprised us with such a delightful trick, I’d say, uhm, well , you know, he’s not exactly what you’d call a genius, but our Bristol will surely know much better. But no, once again the internet presents us the real truth. It (you know what I mean) truly runs in families. ……
Oh yes, about that homosexual pervert bit of yours. Well, don’t make me laugh. Talk about perverts. Have you seen auntie Sarah gunning wild (and endangered) animals (wolves, polar bears) from an airplane? Very, very brave woman, eh? Once again a great example for our youngsters!!! Yes, I’m so proud of this highly intelligent woman; what a genius, indeed…….. Read here what she said about the historical character Paul Revere’s ride in 1775 and have a great, thundering laugh http://www.politicususa.com/en/sarah-palin-paul-revere
Yes, yes, this woman’s really going to save our poor country and, above all, definitely improve the quality of our educational system………
Well, well, well, here we have our Professor Sook Young again, who has meticulouly studied Leviticus 20. And now,at long last, it has become clear to us that Leviticus exclusively discusses homosexuality, nothing else, really! So, Sookie, now we know why you’re such an admirer of auntie Sarah (Palin)!!!
HEY FRED! WELL, AFTER A YEAR OF PRAYER FOR YOUR ASS I CHECK IN AND FIND YOUR STILL HEADIN’ FOR THE PIT?! MY KNEES ARE GETIN’ SORE. I WONDER HOW LONG DANIEL PRAYED FOR NEBUCHADNEZZAR? BETTER WATCH OUT, YOU MAY WAKE UP IN A FIELD CHEWING CUD. STILL LOVIN’ YA, MANNY
Thank you so much Manny. You really deserve HEAVEN. Do hope for ya that it exists, indeed, although I still find the idea pretty ludicrous, to say the least…. Anyway, thanks and take care.
Oh, btw, the mods removed a very nice message I sent you a couple of days ago. Pretty cool and sympathetic of them, huh? Really 21st century folk, I dare say……..
GIVE IT ANOTHER SHOT, MOG
Why did de Forum stop?