Actually, if you do some research you will find that polio disappeared from the face of the earth at the same time in vaccinated and non-vaccinated areas. Humm!, I wonder what that means?

I’ll tell you what that means, it means some unscrupulous people decided to take credit for it so that it would benefit their business.

I think that the overuse of vaccination and antibiotics has created more problems than it has solved.

In reality our biggest breakthrough has been hygiene.

Eric, no I didn’t do the research. Perhaps you are right, maybe not, I don’t know. Vaccines wiped out small pox.
I do believe that vaccines in many cases give the body immunity, by exposing the body to a watered down, non threatening version of the disease. But that does not mean that I think they are safe in all cases. I have heard of vaccines being contaminated with other viruses, metals, and so on. I think you have to weigh the risks. I would not ever bother with a flu vaccination. Polio and small pox, if there was a major outbreak, I would consider.

But the bottom line with this discussion here is, it should NEVER be mandatory. People should be able to retain their right to choose. I have not had a single vaccination since I was 13. I have refused them for 30 years. Thats my choice, but I am not recommending anyone follow it. Make your own choices.
Rob

Eric,
What you think of as research is called “cherry picking” your facts. Any fool can publish any crackpot theory on the internet (witness the author of this blog.) The old saying that applies here is don’t believe what you read and only half of what you see. There is no serious debate that vaccines work. In the last decade, we have seen the virtual elimination of H. influenza and Pneumococcal meningitis from the children in the U.S. These used to be the most common form of meningitis (brain and spinal cord infection) in children, affecting more 1 in 200 children and leaving many dead or permanently disabled. There have been no major changes in hygeine that I am aware of that have occurred in the last decade. The only change is that we immunize children against these diseases at a young age. The notion that vaccines don’t work belongs in the dustbin of history along with notions like the earth is flat and organisms don’t evolve.

Jumping, you may call Bob Livingston a crack pot, But I have been following him for years and I can assure you crack pots, with their distorted veiws of reality, do not become as rich as Bob Livingston. To become rich, you have to be grounded in reality. Nobody just passes out millions of dollars. I can say since following Bob Livingston from the mid 90′s on, I can say with certainty, that Bob has been 100% right on target with every major financial trend to come our way. Bob told us to buy gold when it was $350. an oz. “Just shut your eyes and buy, buy, buy!! It will go to $1000.” IT HAS. Bob has an uncanny ability to see the trends. If his judgement was that far off, he wouldn’t be right so often, now would he? So with that type of analytical mind, and being so right in financial affairs, do you really believe his research into medicine could be so wrong?
Health and wealth, thats what he researches. Its very unlikely Bob would be so right on one topic, and so wrong on another. Its the same fact finding analysis he uses to make himself rich, that he uses to uncover little know medical facts.
I do not agree with all his medical info, but he is merely sharing what he has found.
I can say Bob is careful to research before he publishes…. It very well could be me thats wrong, when I disagree with Bob… I don’t know.

And Jumping, we are not saying that vacines don’t work. We are saying that there may be a downside to their useage. Aside from contamination of the vacine itself, their may be permanent and excessive autoimmune responses after being exposed to vacines, that extend beyoned mere immunity to a pathogen.
I think some honest research is in order. Key word: HONEST.

Skidmore University, and Saint Joesph College.

Rob…thank you

Because you might not agree with David, there is truth in what he’s saying.
There have been medical reports that now believe that the degenerative diseases we now have are the result of the vacines we had to take to start school.
Maybe the fact that the Govt. has experimentred on people in Institutions and tried to hide it should make people question more and be less trusting.
Talk about stupid: you almost need the Natl. Guards to be called in when a thermometer is broken in the hospital to clean up the mercury and yet mercury is in many if not all the vaccines. Pestilence is another sign of the times and mankind can be the one used to bring it about.

Ah Carolyn, did you actually read what David wrote???

He was being sarcastic when he said that EVERYBODY knows Aids is a military weapon left over from Vietnam…. And everything else he said was sarcasim. He does not agree with me, he does not agree with you.

What do you think David meant when he said, “Are all of you crazy? This site is a joke, right? I’ve never read so many wacky ideas in one place in all my life.”

Wacky ideas….He means vacinations are all 100% harmless.

Me I don’t agree 100% But again, this thread is about retaining our right to make our own decisions, and not be subject to MANDATORY anything.

Didn’t think I would have to spell this one out….

*Rob, I hope you get this as I’m having to reply on my comment here and maybe you will see it.
You’re right about David’s sarcasm but I think he changed directions before he was sure which way he was going. When I said there was some truth*in what he was saying (though way off in left field), he was more than extreme while trying to make his point (Aids the Military weapon).
It’s been said that for every action there is a reaction. Maybe he was striving for a response by upset. You kind of had to read between the lines and then not too sure exactly his point.

“Nuff Said”
Find a new catch phrase Limey, its old, its worn.
Don’t cha think?
Geez

Nope!! It’s NOT old or worn.
Be careful who you call ‘Limey’ — You don’t even know where I’m from — whether I’m British (the one’s most commonly called ‘Limey’ from WWII days), Polish, Jewish, Italian, Hispanic (pick a country here), German or what. So before you go there…..’Look before you leap’ Lemming!!

‘Nuff Said’,

Get over it, BONEHEAD!! (Ist das besser?!)

I’m smellin something fruity…..

Your originate from Britian.

You are NOT GERMAN…

Hey lighten up, its your additude I object to.
If you only knew how much British blood was in me….

Its the additude.

I decide when I get the last word, not you.

Actually, I am thinking you are Puerto Rican….
Hows that?

Stevo, you are going to tell me what I believe?
I don’t think its a government plot. I think drug makers researched the upside, and rushed it out for profit, and now have no vested interest in determining if there may be any liability associated with use of their product. Vaccines are not natural to the human body. It would stand to reason that there MAY be a downside to their use. I do not expect the drug manufacturers to to publish research that indicate that their product may be harmful. You cannot expect that. Leave that to others.
Again, though, you have to weigh the pros against the cons. If there is a deadly epidemic raging, the pros just might outweigh the cons. It all depends on context.

Don’t tell me what I think.
Because if you can really do that, you shouldn’t be wasting your time here, you should be investing in the market…

Great! So with that kind of stamina, how about standing up and taking the place of one of the over 4000 dead or over 30,000 wounded young men of the Iraqi war. Most of those have sacrificed life and limb so that seniors can continue to enjoy the lives that they “earned.”

FYI, I am very close to 70, have three wonderful children (41 thru 49) and four grandkids (19 thru 14)who are among the finest kids on the planet. I’ve been retired for five years and I get up when I want and am very active in a grassroots movement that I am passionate about.

Like Kenny Rogers sings, “You gotta know when to hold em and know when to foldem.”

Rocky, Rocky….

Speak not that which you are unaware of. I did serve, proudly for 8 yrs in the United States Marines….

I also lost brothers in that war, they never got to claim thier social security or reach the age of 65. So, my point is, I have earned my right to a happy old age just as my grandmother who lived to be 88.

Now, it seems everyone is concerned with the goverment having to take care of our elderly. What ever happened to the children taking care of thier aging parents. After all, the parents took care of the kids for at least 18 years and if the children in turn need to care for the parent for 10 years, WHATS THE PROBLEM. If children took active responsibility for thier parents, driving them where they need to go, keeping track of med’s thier taking, maybe even moving Mom or Dad into the house with them.

I get really tired of wealthy children “because mom and dad paid for thier education 1,0000′s of $, complaining about the expense of good nursing homes (the true drudge of society)…do they not have room in this 2000 sq ft house to put this parent. I have had friends who live in much smaller cape cod houses who gave up the master for thier parents and moved into another room.

When we decide as a society to once again take responsibility for our aging parents we will regain our self respect and

STOP THIS STUPID CONVERSATION ABOUT KILLING OFF THE ELDERLY.

Oh Rocky..

I forgot one thing……YOU FOLD THEM IF YOU WISH>>>> I’m too busy playing the hand that Jesus Christ handed me<<<<<

To Sandra:

If you would kindly check my original message, I clearly said “voluntary” euthanasia. I was not inferring that a wagon was going to pull up to your house and drag you out kicking and screaming! For god’s sake, calm down or you won’t get to live that long life you want!

Also, what I said was my opinion. Apparently you have a hard time with opinions when they differ from yours. So much so that you blocked any replies to your hysteria.

If you are going to persue further education, you must learn to keep an open mind, read all of the words in a sentence and to respect opinions of others so that your opinion might also be respected.

I wish you a very long life!

I find it strange that anyone would want voluntary euthansia. It’s natural to want to live; not to die.
While you made a remark to Sandra abvout being open minded, I have found some people to be so open minded that they are empty headed so careful with
the open mindness bit.

Educate me, please. I can find nothing in Obama’s health care proposal that puts the government ‘in charge of’ my health care. What specific language am I missing?

The morons of the nation cannot understand that if they have Medicare or Medicaid, they have a ‘government’ run health care program. Who the hell do they think is running these programs. It’s all over the literature they send out. Are ppl blind or just plain stupid?? If it wasn’t for these ‘govt run health care programs’ most ppl would be out on the street since, unlike Cuba, a poor country with free health care for all (because it’s run by the govt…DUH!!!) the average person could not afford the astronomical cost of healthcare. Look at you D___ bill next time and see what you’re charged just for an injection: cost of med, syringe, drawing up med, person who gives shot, environmental cost of disposing of syringe, air expelled from syringe, alcohol swab, bandaid (you didn;t get), MD charge for ordering it, pen to write order, energy to put pen to paper, and on and on and on. What a joke. Be admitted to the hosp. & see how many MDs you have..talk about a rip-off: YOUR MD can’t admit (most likely) has to be a “Hospitalist MD” one of those that knows absolutely NOTHING about your condition but comes around everyday so he can charge you for a visit, your MD, a Pathologist for your lab work, a radiologist for your (usually non-existent) x-rays, a pulmonologist who may or may not manage to get around to listen to you breath sounds – as tho your own MD can’t do this. Heaven forbid you go have a toe nail removed: surgery charge, nurses, set-ups, environmental charges, labs, anesthesiologist, pathologist (again), pulmonologist (again), recovery & all those add-ons, radiologist, surgeon & assistant surgeon (never mind that you never saw him), nurse anesthetist (because surely you know the MD doesn’t stay with you the whole time), cremation of the toenails, I could go on but you get the drift..so your bill is in the hundreds of thousands..no wonder!! Forget pain meds,, the pharmacy forgot to put them into the computer or you were d/c’ed before they got around to it. OR you got them but they were so beyond the experiration date they were ineffective or you got the addict who gave you saline and took your narcotics (happens so much more often than you expect).

Sandra you go girl!!! I am enjoying these spirited discussion.. Palliative care is comfort care after being deemed terminal by a team of dr. rn social work and the pt. and family. No one should have to suffer..and palliative care helps the pt. and (family) to have a more peaceful trip.

Thanks Debra
I already knew what Palliative care was, I was just posting for all the others that may not speek up for themselves. But, I do appriciate you posting the meaning for all of them.

And you go girl!!!

Sandra
Thanks for pointing that out to me – you’re right! And I am sorry.

Teresa’

Thanks for responding. I felt I was being too harsh on your post, as you were really trying to get a point across. Just don’t let your passion make you snipent…my kids word…for when I get testy. Please continue trying to educate people to live better lives, waking each day and asking “what can I do today to make the world better for my fellow man” and you will live a blessed life.
And a long life.

I think you missed my point. The current system is wrong and it is bankrupting us. Many people don’t have/cannot afford insurance and the ones that have insurance are misusing it and the doctors/hospitals and insurance companies are letting that happen because they are all in business/bed together.

There are many ways to be healthy and get healthy and the better ones are usually the cheaper ones not currently supported or allowed or reimbursed. Don’t you think that’s a problem? Whys isn’t that even part of the current discussion?

I am not suggesting that someone stands there and decides who lives or who dies. I am merely saying that we need to have an honest discussion about it because like it or not we cannot maintain our current system. It is stupid and not sustainable and we are broke.

As far as going willingly. Yes the more I know about our collective stupidity the more I would want to quickly leave this place. And I am one of those who strongly supports my right to do when I choose to.

Americans are stuck in a mentality of maintaining life at all costs. Maybe that’s flawed thinking. Some economists are now talking about peak capitalism. Realizing that capitalism and it’s needed growth is not sustainable and we may already have reached the point of no return.

We have some serious souls searching to do and we need to change quickly. And I don’t mean change-light like many of you seem to be happy to be getting from Obama. We need revolutionary changes. We need to change our thinking, our lifestyles, our beliefs and our effect on this planet. I don’t think we have much time left.

Ignorance is not a good defense for anything and don’t call me an idiot, you know nothing about me.

My eyes have been open for most of my life. I have always been a rebel. My wife and I do not use/support the current medical system. Even though we have health coverage through our job we choose to pay out of our own pocket for cheaper alternative heath care. We do not live on overly processed foods and knowing that this could be the biggest contribution to affecting the planet one could do (look it up), we stopped eating red meat 35 years ago.

You are not reading everything. Something offended you and you got stuck on just that.

I do believe that if someone behaved stupidly all their life whether through ignorance or some other reason, they have no right to demand anything. We as a society have the right to make decisions as a collective, especially once we provide universal coverage (for all) on what kinds and how much therapy we are willing to and can afford to provide.

Everyone must have basic coverage, that ‘s the first thing we must fix, but it may not include an organ transplant at an advanced age or massive amounts of surgery and treatment for cancer when many know full well that you will only get a few more months or a couple of years.

Hey this America and no one will stop you from buying additional insurance if that’s how you want to spend your money.

What I’d really like to see is that we release information and support the use of more natural therapies and lifestyle changes. The current system likes to hide all statistics about people who were labeled too far advanced uncureable, who found alternatives, got well and never looked back.

You should be more upset about our subsidizing the fast food industry like corn growing/corn syrup that is largely responsible for many of our diseases today.

We need to connect the dots. The health care discussion cannot go on without involving all of the pieces, chemical farming versus organic and local farming; polution and the environment; food production and distribution; , drugs versus natural non toxic alternatives; allopathic versus homeopathic or herbs; stress and meditation and breathing and on and on..

I think we need to apply the following filters to any and all decisions today. Is it healthy, sustainable, ecological.

Elle..i don`t think Eric was making judgements…but our government is discussing this. in particular people who are over-weight or smoked. They are suggesting the 2 groups would pay more. But as we all know there are so many other behaviors that should be included if they pick on fat smokers!!

Terry:

Well, I am becoming more paranoid – - – and evidently with good reason.

It just seems that busybodies have too much time on their hands. What this country needs is a good depression and it appears that’s what’s happening as these very “smart” people are trying their subjective best to screw things up.

Terry..you are so right!! There are discussions about having to pay more for health care if you are a smoker,over-weight,so on and on….But there is no mention about druggies, or people who are involved in deviant sexual behaviors like homosexuals. 97% of HIV infections are the result of behavior like IV drug use and multiple sex partners. Why do they get a free pass??

Debra — ‘They’ get a ‘free pass’ because ‘they’ are the minority and in this world of today it’s a well-known fact (???) that ‘Minority Rules’. Didn’t you know that???

‘Nuff Said’,

P.S. I’m NOT a believer in that. I still hold to ‘MAJORTY RULES!!’

Funny how the whole wretched bunch swore to uphold the Constitution and not a one seems to know what it says.
No where does it tell them to micro-manage people’s personal lives and be their nanny.
They aren’t protecting our borders, our lives or our property; maybe they should go home as they are useless but it’s easy money for them to live off the taxpayer as a parasite. And then some of the Judges go by Int’l. Law; there’s no end to the insanity.

Debra, do not judge everyone by what James says. You do know you are on the front line in hospitals,doing as the doctor orders and then needing to justify to patient and family.

I am one of those trouble family members, but it is not you I am angry with but with the doctor. It is just that if I just let you do anything you are ordered to without question, we become nothing but cattle in the auction pen. If I disagree with the treatment ordered first I must stop you from completing your tast and then I can try to get ahold of the doctors office.

For private reasons I had the need for all the transcripts from my back surgury and the additional 3 hospitalizations following my 1st release. Things that were disturbing (I do understand the terms used in hospital transcripts) was the fact that after a reaction to a new medication, the nurses tried unsucessfully all that day to reach my doctor for orders, to the kind mothering nurse who cared for me when I needed to be restrained (thank you) and then there was the doctors assistance who came in just as I was leaving intesive care (drug indused) and asked me if I wanted to go home….who says No. This is what lead to my addithional hospilizations within days of my release ..stupid women….all this while I had one of the best back surgeons in the area….your doctor may be great but he or her are not the ones coming into see you every day and they are not the ones that care for you when you are released far far too soon

Sandra,

Don’t ever let anyone, in medicine or anywhere else, push you into a decision you are not comfortable with. There are some great doctors out there (I work with some) and like every other profession on earth, there are some that should find something else to do (and I know some of those also, some I wouldn’t send my dog to).
People sometimes expect too much from their doctors and other medical people, seeming to forget that they are human, and thus subject to error, but sometimes people don’t expect enough, and accept whatever they are told without question, and continue going to the same doctor that previously messed them up. It is one thing if the doctor admits the problem, and bends every reasonable effort to fix it, but that attitude is unfortunately uncommon. Too many operate normally in CYA mode, some of it driven by litigation risk, but some driven by a lack of sufficient dedication
to their patients. The lack of coverage that you described is without excuse.

We’re not afraid of you so much as a person or an RN, LPN, etc., but for what you have the ‘capabilities’ to do to US who don’t know that this drug can do this — and be nearly impossible to trace. It (somewhat) falls under the guise of ‘Fear of The Unknown’. You ‘know’ but WE don’t. Then too, it’s (nearly) equivalent to flying…the passengers (and flight attendants) are putting their lives in the hands of the pilot/co-pilot (e.g., patients putting their lives in the hands of doctors and nurses). How do WE know YOU know what you’re doing?? Get the picure??
‘Nuff Said’,

Debra, I don’t know if you can help me but I would like to ask. My beautiful Jenny passed away on the 24th June. She had adenocarcinoma in the right lung and had a small brain tumor removed in December this year. Lung cancer diagnosed in November 08.
Jenny had been doing quite well until around the 10th of June where her pain started to increase and as her oncologist was away her GP put her into a palliative care ward for pain management. Jenny was never the same, they got on top of her pain but her overall health declined quickly. One day one of the nurses told me that they had given her too much medication (oxymorphone) whilst tying to fine tune her doses. The next day Jenny was in a form of delirium. This lasted 3 days and she never recovered from it passing away 5 days after such a downwards spiral. The doctor told me she passed away from Terminal Delirium. I had never heard of this and it had never been mentioned to me. After talking to other doctor’s I am not 100% convinced that I actually know what took Jenny so fast and have some concerns about the too much medication statement. Do you have any knowledge of Terminal Delirium.? I am in a bad place, please help me if you can.
Paul.

Dear Paul..I am so sorry for your pain. I am going to try to explain as best I can. As you know adenocarcinoma is very aggressive and terminal in most cases. It starts in a large organ like the lungs and via large vessel blood supply travels to other organs like the brain,liver. Now..when her pain got worse and was admitted..the nurses/drs. give what they call loading doses to get the pain under control..and Paul it sounds like she was in the dying process..then they give maintence meds. It is tricky sometimes because of pts. weight and their on perception level. Now the delirium-part. As a pt. is dying..the bodily functions slow and shut down. The pt. goes into a coma like state in order to deal with the pain and fear..That is Gods way of helping us thru the dying process. It upsets the loved ones witnessing this. But remember Paul your Jenny did not need to be awake to die. I hope she went as painless as possible and had a nice easy trip to the other side. I wish I could talk with you. You now have a process to go thru also and it will be hard. But do know you helped her to be comfortable in her last days. Seek out a grief support group and if you can silp me a ## I will call.Debra

Thank you very much for your reply Debra. I will take your advice. I would love to speak with you but I live in Australia. If you give me your number I will call you. This is my email add. bempti29@bigpond.net.au

Paul x

I don’t believe that vaccines have been found to be a definitive cause of autism.

Don’t overrule the environment! Since the introduction of oil derivative products and plastics into our daily lives beginning in the 40′s, we are literally surrounded by a myriad of chemicals. Not only do these newly introduced carcinogens interact with us, they interact with each other.

First and second generations are often free of obvious changes to chromosomes until they mutate and take on a life of their own.

The causes of autism and other anomalies could come from any one of millions of engineered processesl.

What are drugs if not a ‘form’ of vaccines?? All of which are produced by the ‘mixing’ of chemicals (mostly) and then ‘injected’, ‘ingested’ into our bodies which aren’t made for ‘outside’ chemicals to begin with.

What we’re experiencing is the ‘truth’ to DOW Chemical’s ‘slogan’ of years past of….’Better Living Through Chemistry’. Oh, really!?!? NOT!!!

‘Nuff Said’,

Yes. Drugs could be responsible as well as vaccines.

What I was saying is that vaccines have not been nailed as the offending substance. Much has been linked to vaccines but scientific evaluations have not conclusively proven that vaccines cause autism.

In addition to “drugs” there are millions of other engineered products that should not be ignored until we have learned the precise cause of autism. I have no doubts that they will find the cause. It’s only a matter of time.

Sandra,
You should be more careful about what you read, and at least have the courtesy to not make claims about people you don’t even know. And furthermore, produce your own evidence before you say that what others are saying is wrong. I was only requesting clarification of definitions, and the evidence to back up what was bring claimed. The only true challenge I made was regarding the “use of SIV” in the development of AIDS, which I believe is nonsense, unless the original poster was very sloppy with their choice of words. But as with all the rest, show me the evidence.
And before you repeat to me about a goverment conspiracy, that too is only an assertion. It is not that I am saying it does not or is not happening. The government covers up all kinds of things, and another poster as correctly identified the conflict of interest that occurs when the government does get involved. But if you are saying that the absence of evidence is itself evidence of a cover-up, I am sorry, but that is circular reasoning, and to me, an assertion that cannot be demonstrated isn’t worth making the first place.
If you will read the original post, the claim was that autism was caused by mercury
(thimerosol) vaccines, not vaccines generally, and that it what I was responding to. There exists reasonably clear evidence that some children do develop autism as a
reaction to vaccines, but the link to thimerosol has not yet been established. If you can demonstrate otherwise, please do so. If asking for evidence to back up your assertions counts as intimidation, then I actually feel sorry for you. It must be real tough living in this world. Exactly what part of the solution are you trying to become? How many public hearings onthe subject have you attended, or how many letters have you written to your elected officials in Washington? I do those things, because I think they matter, and even if they don’t, I will still try.
And regarding your not only inaccurate but perjorative comment about my party winning the election, you should find some other website if what you want to do with people with whom you disagree is call them names.
In the first place, I am a non-party voter. I vote issues and character, not parties. And given that I am a conservative, socially, fiscally and politically, there are few Democrats anywhere in this country that I could vote for, and if my choice at the last national election was to vote for Obama or go to jail, I would have taken jail without hesitation. Sadly, there are any number of Republicans that I wouldn’t vote for either, because they are indistinguishable from Democrats or other liberals. My state of Ohio is heading down the tubes as fast as possible. My particular representatives
are George Voinovich, Sherrod Brown, and Marcia Fudge. It could be worse (I could be living in California), but it is pretty bad. The current federal government seems bent on destroying our country as fast as possible, and if more people don’t start demanding something different, they will succeed.

James you are right and to be brief– the govt. is doing something: they are labeling all we sensible people as extremist and terrorist.
Good has become evil and evil good. Talk about nutsville; did they do lobotomies on the elected before they could take their position? If not, they are escapees from an institution.

Elle
You are right but we do have one big problem– the Govt is federalizing everything even the Police so between that and Obama’s private military and people so divided– it will a tough road.
I can’t remember the Pres. or who it was that said “We will die standing on our feet rather then on our knees.”
I still support the saying, “Better dead then Red.”

Hi Terry,

A few years ago, I had an upper respiratory infection that lasted almost an entire year. I went to the doctor and was prescribed three different anibiotics one after another. They did nothing for me, except probably contributed because I found out later that antibiotics are a fungus. I won’t ever use them again. Anyhow, I used natural things like olive leaf extract and oil of oregano, both can be found in capsule form at health food store. I had also lost my sense of taste! It really scared me and was frustrating not to be able to enjoy the flavor of foods. I went on line and searched for help. I got it! There is a website, Sinus Wars – it’s a .com website. They have a number of remedies, homeopathic you put under your tongue. I phoned and talked to a real person. I selected Sinus Wars No. 2 and No. 7 according to their recommendation. When I got them in the mail, I read the instructions and upon taking them (or one – not sure which one actually cured me, because it’s been so long ago) I got my sense of smell and taste back within a half hour. Hallelujah! I was amazed and so happy to finally get relief. I take olive leaf extract on a daily basis as a safeguard and haven’t had any illness since. Anyhow, I just wanted to share.

Regarding the topic, I think too often hospital/doctors are negligent and don’t treat patients as people. I think doctors lose their empathy and become hardened. Of course, there will always be good health care physicians who do actually care. But, unfortunately, I think the elderly get treated poorly just because of their age and all the things that go with it. It’s sad to watch treatment of loved ones – i know because i saw how my 89 year old dad was treated. Don’t want to go into details -too painful. He passed away the day he came home. He and my sister-in-laws dad died from complications of pneumonia they got in the hospital. I think getting pneumonia while staying in the hospital is way to common. There was recently a secret meeting held by several billionaires, all names you’d recognize, regarding population control. hmmmm, wonder how they’ll achieve that?

Anne,
Thank you so much…..I neglected to mention but when I lost my sense of smell, most food has tasted like cardboard. I haven’t enjoyed get togethers like Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. while everyone else was raving about the food I couldn’t taste and still don’t. I’ll definitely check that web site out and give those homeopathic remedies a try. Bless you for being kind enough to share.

I’ve been on Medicare for 18 months and so far have found it to be exceptional. Although I do not suffer from any serious illnesses, my doctor does insist on lots of “tests” and I am on a handful of meds.

Along with Medicare Parts A, B and D, I have a supplemental plan that pays for EVERYTHING. It’s an additional $137 a month but I have no co-pays, no deductibles and I see the doctors of my choice.

However, I certainly sympathize with your situation and experience and I wish you luck and improved health!

I’m glad that you are financially able to pay for the extra insurance. I like many others who live on our Social Security check and pay a mortgage heating bills etc and are struggling to keep their homes don’t have the option of buying supplemental insurance – there is no money to live on to begin with let alone buy extra insurance.

That’s the problem many of us face and the only option we have is to hang on as long as we can and refuse to die early. I plan to do just that

Thank you very much for your good wishes — I am doing fairly well at the moment and have resolved to beat this cancer for the second time .

Be careful about all the Meds as usually one will create a problem that you will need another. Your medicine will need medicine.
So many of our problems are diet related and even my doctor admitted it and told me that I was one of his few patients who cared as others just want a pill.
Alternative Medicine is better as they try to find the root of the problem whereas Conventional Medicine will give you a pill to try and help while the problem remains.
I think it was Dr. William Campbell Douglass who gave a good example when he gave an example of an oil light coming on in your car indicating a problem–but if you disconnect the light, the flashing will stop but you still have the problem.
Remember, Pharmaceuticals finance Med Schools so you can see how doctors are being taught. If you check out the medicine prescribed and see the effects it can have, you wonder if you’re trying to get better or kill yourself.
Sorry to be so down on Conventional doctors as there are some that take their profession serious and their patients too. Some I believer are un—
registerd quacks.

Richard, you too see the handwriting on the wall.
What’s happening to our economy and reversed Laws is to bring all the people to their knees and all will be dependent on Govt. (Rome and I might say-Germany revisited). History is repeating itself and what we are seeing happen was planned and will force us into a One World Govt. that we know is coming because the Bible says so. The World Dictator isn’t far off and Satan is so in control of our system that most don’t see what’s happening.
TV has done its part in keeping the masses dumbed down.
Pray for our leaders that their hearts will be changed and for our people who have got caught in the world and forgotten their Maker.

Who are you to tell me if I want to live like that or not? You know what I want? My family might want me dead if I am a burden to them. But Terry’s parents wanted to take her home and care for her and they were not allowed to because of our government’s lawmakers. It was torment for them to watch her suffer as she died. YES, they said they watched her SUFFER. But even if she did not suffer, our government should not be making laws to kill the weak. The medical profession thinks they know so much. I have had a go round with them myself. They don’t even believe what the pt. says if some “expert” says differently. I am not angry with you though. I am dreading this universal health care being forced upon us. The government has historically abused citizens via the medical profession.

I know you are not angry we me Sylvia..We are in very scary times..we cant trust the gov. We are afraid we have put another Hitler in office..and we dont what is going to happen to us. And then to think they want to manage our health care..GEEZ…

I agree with you Sylvia and I too am an R.N. who has cared for thousands of patients not only in the E.R. but in ICU and long term convalescent homes . I learned early on that older patients are NOT given the treatments they need for survival if they have no family. If they have family they stand a small chance of getting treatments but even that is a fight if the patient was given a Living Will to sign and they did it without thinking. The government already feels that they can control many aspects of our lives and it’s because we were either not paying attention when the changes came about or we didn’t think too much of the changes at the time. It is out of control right now, especially with the health care and it will only get worse if Obama’s so called “healthcare reform” takes place – the government has ruined anything they “run” so don’t fall for the socialized medicane he is pushing. I don’t have a good answer for our woes but is NOT letting the federal gov’t get their hands on anything as important as our health care. Terry Sciavo was killed by our government and the nurses and doctors who “cared” for her — her parents could not say or do anything — she was stupid’s wife – not their daughter in the eyes of our gov’t – sad scenario — yes- and totally wrong.

Give her hell Sylvia!

Debra, You are right when you say most people do not understand the dying process, just because you are an RN and have seen people die doesn’t mean you understand it either! How do you know they don’t experience hunger or thirst? If Terry Sheivo could have spoken I am sure she would have said she was hungry and thirsty after her feeding tube was pulled and fluids with held! I hope that if I ever suffer from a terminal disease I will not have the misfortune of having you as my nurse! People are not just flesh and blood! They are not like cars that get religated to the junk pile because their parts break down! They way you describe it makes it sound so logical so scientific So cold! People exist in the Spiritual realm. They are creations of God! Who are you to say what they know or don’t know? It is people like you who justify the cold calculated dismissal of the value of human life! You do it through Abortion because babies in the womb are just tissue, fetuses, they don’t feel anything when their little brains are being sucked out, or their arms torn from their body! You do it to the crippled or mentally retarded or those who can’t speak for themselves because they are helpless to defend themselves! You do it to the old and infirm because their usefullness is run out! And you do it all ever so compassionately! Maybe, it is the intention of God for families to suffer through the dying process with their loved ones because we have something to learn from those who are dying, like real compassion! Compassion that thinks caring for and tending to the needs of those who are weak and vulnerable, is what real love is! It is not about putting them out of their misery for their own good and mostly for our convience! Quit playing God! You don’t know! You only imagine you know!

Momsright….how in the world did you get abortion in this dog fight? I am a Christion, a repubician,and consevative. and opposed to abortion. Now back to first ..as a Mom I am sure you know when you look at your child and your eyes meet…you know the connection. That`s the point..Terry was gone.. yes her body was there but her brain was so deprived of O2 that the Terry her parents knew was gone.The spirit had already left. I wish adults were required to take dying classes like when required to givve

I keep getting cut off….what I was trying to say dying classes like for giving birth. And we are educated as RN on the dying process. We help to educate the familys and the pt. as to what to expect. Momsright death is part of our life. We are not here forever..and we have to accept that. I am a very compassionate nurse..and my pts know that. As I said I just hope to make their trip a little easier for them and the family.

Debra, abortion is relavent to this topic. Because this is about “them” deciding who lives and who dies.

Let me tell you something about abortion that I never hear brought up.
An unborn fetus is not a woman’s body, and she has no right to choose if the fetus lives or dies. Its not a cancer tumor.
Heres why.

The fetus has its own seperate genetic code, that differs from both its mother and father. That alone indicates that from the moment of conception, a fetus is a third party. It is not up to the mother, father, or government to decide when a fertilized egg becomes a person.
So put that science in its rightfull place.

If society does not value human life, then we wind up with a society that only values productive human life. We get a society that places no value on those who cannot contribute, or who can no longer contribute. Children are valued, because they have potential. The elderly are not. They have passed their potential, and are no longer of value. Hitler called them, and people like them, “Useless Eaters.”

The slickest stealth killing machine the world has ever known.
The Nazi’s had nothing on us…

You are not God and you have no right to decide who lives or dies-only He does.

I dont decide when a pt dies nor does anyone else. If a tube that is inserted d irectly into the stomach with thick orange colored liquid was not put in the pt s stomach then they would have died..Gods choice right? But me dical stepped in prolonged the life..God did that. My word .What happened back about 50 years ago? Just because medicine can keep someone alive ..doesnt mean we should. I dont mean to make every one angry..please go to the bookstore or you local lib. and check out books on death and dying,the end life..plenty of resources out there.

Debra, nurse or no nurse, I disagrree with you about considering this humane for Terri. First of all, we are all terminal in the sense that some day
we are all going to die.
Terri had some disabilities and she was improving until her adulterous husband wanted her dead so he could marry the woman he was lliving with and they had 2 children.
When food and water (basics in llife) are withheld, death is guaranteed. Dehydration causes much suffering.
And while you mention people not wanting to live in that condition, let me remind you of Christopher Reeves. You and I might say we wouldn’t want to live like that but until you are faced with such circumstances, you might change your mind.
Terri’s husband’s attorney was a Euthansia doctor. Imagine that.
Life is precious and man doesn’t qualify to say who should live and who should die; only the Creator.
So we witnessed Supreme Court Judges making a decision that was out and out murder; they felt qualified to play God. Talk about delusional.
You would do time if this were done to an animal yet human life was treated as nothing.
I followed all the court action and letters from her attorneys and you have no idea of all the details that the Media withheld from the public. Of course that’s nothing new.
Isn’t it strange that the Nat’l. Guard could go in to rescue Elian Gonzeles but they couldn’t rescue Terri. Money talks and her husband had it because after he won the case in court supposedly to care for Terri’s disabilities, he stopped allowing any therapy to be given to her. She lost some teeth, wasn’t allowed to have drapes open, no fresh air, no tv, no radio and no reporters.
Remember, what was done to Terri can happen to any of us. Don’t ever get the idea that because it didn’t happen to you that it doesn’t matter.
We reap what we sow and when Life is no longer respected- it’s all downhill after that.
After watching the bozos in Congress and the President, these are exactly who you don’t want in charge of your health care.
Watching the fast forward downhill destruction of a Free Enterprise system makes you think of a Scripture–”In one hour Babylon is fallen.” Those who love Death, hate Life.
Without repentance and turning back to God, America is doomed. Brought to you by the U.S. Congress and its turncoats.
“What profiteth a man to gain the world and loose his soul?” There are no shopping malls in Hell so don’t even consider compromise.

Rob, you make an excellent point about insurance companies looking out for their profits. Just wait until we have a government run health care system! My husband and I owned and opperated our own business and made very good money 750,000 to 1,000,000 a year gross! We have eight kids and work very hard to take care of their needs. We had private insurance that we paid a premium for and for the most part they never went with out proper medical treatment etc. However, over the last two years we saw our business decline and finally fall apart partially due to bad economy and crazy government policies from Washington. Anyhow, the point is we are now broke! We lost everything and have trouble just keeping the electricity on and food on the table! Long story I know but my point is that I had to apply for a government subsidised health care program that just covers my kids. One of my daughters has an abcess in her mouth that causes her a great deal of pain! The only way I can get her seen is to get up at 5:30am to be one of the first 5 people in line at the clinic which opens at 6:30am! Only the first 5 people get to be on the list to be seen that day! Imagine when the whole of America has to stand in line for health care!……. By the way, we have no intention of staying in this level of poverty or to become reliant on the government for our needs. We are entrapeuners and are working now to rebuild our business! This is America! People have an opportunity to be whatever they can imagine! As a side note I believe that every individual is a gift! Everyone no matter age, health, or mental state, contributes to others just by their presence! Even Terry Sheivo, as debra said:…………{ “as a Mom I am sure you know when you look at your child and your eyes meet…you know the connection. That`s the point..Terry was gone.. yes her body was there but her brain was so deprived of O2 that the Terry her parents knew was gone.The spirit had already left”}………..Again who are we to decide who is making a connection or not? To her parents Terry contributed something to them! She was not on total life support! She was only being fed! a kindness that most people would not deny to their dog! So medical advances have made it easier to feed someone in her condition…….Does that mean that we should deny the necessary thing to someone just because we couldn’t have done it 50 years ago!………By the way, I have friends who have taken care of their Anacelephic daughter {no brain} for 15 years now! She was not expected to live through babyhood! Should they stop feeding her because when they look into her eyes there is no connection! No! they love her and her presence in their family is a gift! Just like Terry!……I know Iam getting on a soap box here but it makes me crazy when I hear comments like those from Debra!……..We all need to stand up against this culture of death and start realizing just how demented these ideas are! They are evil couched in what seems like logic and compassion!

PS, Whatever happened to the hypocratic oath? First do no harm…….?

Momsright,
Yeah, culture of death, thats exactly what SOME of these gouls are like.
I am sorry for you’re current financial trouble, almost everyone has been affected to some degree, some more than others.
I have no doubt, that with your additude, you will pull out.
Your situation is just tempory.
Short term, the economy will improve. Long term, I believe we will see high inflation, then the dollar will collapse.
Rob

Lesia, Try Dr. Mercola’s site at http://www.mercola.com I have read several articles about the link between vaccinations and autism and I believe it was on the mercola site. Good luck, and keep fighting for your grandson.

The star Jenny McCarthy, Has a son with autism from shots and she did tons and tons of research from many different doctors. There is alot of info on it if you google Jenny McCarthy/ autusm. youll find something I’m sure.I say get the shots we all got because you never heard of it back in the day. Wait on the others. Good luck.

Lisa, I was watching a program on Thursday on one of the Public broadcasting station and there was a program on this very subject.
There were medical professional, a woman with a military uniform, a mom who wants to be able to refuse this vaccine and a family doctor who has moms who are forming this exact question. The mother was actually called ignorant by one of the women who is advocating every child needs to have this vaccination or she would become the one responsible for any outbreaks. I wish I was able to recall the name of the program but it followed one about baby turtles being saved by moving them to a new location. I will try to remember and post the name of the program if I remember. It was kind of like a round table, everyone sitting in a circle and the commentator injecting his say so whenever he felt the call.
Good luck and remember that is your child and not the goverments. They may have aquired 50% of the auto industry but they can not be allowed to own 50% of our children….

Please writting or call Senator Voinovich regard Healthcare Issue; Below are email sent to him and contact information to his office- Let your voice be heard.

I am for a health care competition or Public Option.
I don’t care for a Democrat Party that much, but it appears you (Republican Party) are more concern of Republican Party’s theology then resolving the health care problem or conduct a politic as usual. Senator you have been represented the Ohio from Governor to senator for long time, yet you appear to represent the Republican Party and a special interest parties than what is best for Ohio’s residents.

It disgusts me to see any party or you play politic with the health care issue. Especially, to a simple concept of opening health care for competition; it should not be distort and play into politic as usual. What is so hard to understand a simple concept of competition or a common sense that a competition will reduce health care price/cost? Please stop using national debt as excuse on the healthcare issue or to say wait until a Republican Party in control again then you will deal/fix the healthcare issue. It’s exactly what you do when only one or none of republican senator vote yes. As Ohio resident I am sad and disgust with any representative played politic over the needing of change and improves of health care.

Again, there should not be politic or any excuse anymore from you, especially, when you/Republican Party had been in control very long time and done none on the health issue; and to continue to be in the way or not willing to work out matter to what the voters have voted for (the change) is a shame.

I understand that we concern of nation debts, however, we spending money on other issues a lot more, example: War and etc… To use debt and/or any other issues to play politic or represent an especially interest on the healthcare is unacceptable, while a lot of Ohio and/or U.S. Citizen needs of a health insurance. There is no doubt both parties will not get what they want, but for a Republican Party to play politic as usual is sickness. I respectfully ask you to work out a competition/public option or do a compromise with the parties in control; I ask you to vote yes for public option.

Dayton, OH Office:
(Based out of Cincinnati)
36 East 7th Street, Room 2615
Cincinnati, OH 45202
Main: (513) 684-3265
Fax: (513) 684-3269

Central, OH Office:
37 West Broad Street
Room 310
Columbus, OH 43215
Main: (614) 469-6697
Fax: (614) 469-7733
Cincinnati, OH Office:
36 East 7th Street
Room 2615
Cincinnati, OH 45202
Main: (513) 684-3265
Fax: (513) 684-3269

Washington, DC Office:
524 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Main: (202) 224-3353