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Foundation aims to challenge gun ban proposal

April 1, 2009 by  

Foundation aims to challenge gun ban proposal The Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) has vowed to sue the mayor of Seattle if he goes ahead with his plan to ban legally-carried firearms from city property.

Seattle Weekly, a local newspaper, revealed the plan sponsored by Mayor Greg Nickels on March 24. The mayor’s office told SW the ban may be enacted as soon as May.

"Mayor Nickels thinks he can enact this ban merely by executive order," says SAF founder Alan Gottlieb. "He’s not even thinking of putting this before the city council as a proposed ordinance, because he knows it would never pass."

He adds that that Nickels’ office has been warned by the state’s attorney general that neither he nor the city have the authority to enact such a ban under state preemption.

Gottlieb also revealed that at a public hearing late last year there was much interest in pursuing a lawsuit if the ban is enacted, and SAF expects to be joined in a legal action by other gun rights organizations.

Founded in 1974, SAF is the nation’s oldest and largest education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the constitutional right to privately own and possess firearms. It has more than 600,000 members and conducts programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.
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  • Paul

    I am 70 years old, and was taught all my formative years that guns are a tool (which deserve proper handling and care training, and require the respect of any dangerous tool). And, yes, I was trained in a sanctioned gun club, and by my grandfather(s) on the ranches in the Pacific Northwest.

    If guns are outlawed/banned from the citizens, then only criminals AND politicians will have guns —- to continued to wreck havoc on the citizens of our ONCE safe streets.

    In my 20 years of growing up until I left home to work in Seattle, we NEVER once locked our doors in house or car — never knew what a hidden key outside was. Opps, there I go showing I’m just some old fuddy-duddy, senile and unaware of current local and national problems that have been allowed to get out of control.

    I am not talking about illegal immigration right now – that is a slightly different subject. But, look at the current Mexican (parts of Canadian border included) border problem of gun running, and an almost open border for illegal gun runners to murder on both sides of the border, and bring into the USA countless guns for criminals to criminally fight the legal citizens of this once self sustaining and self reliant country where everyone watched out FOR each other NOT fearing each other. The government prefers to jail our border guards, and have them say, ‘please sir, please sir, don’t disobey my order to stop or “I” will go to jail’, rather than establish an effective border to reduce criminal’s unabated access to the ‘lawabiding free citizens’ of this (supposedly, once was, sovereign) country. Oh, again my senility and living in the ancient past, I mean the ‘our now global country’ which is AFRAID of it’s responsibility to set an example of a free citizenry of a Republic under the rule of LAW. Why are we condoning, by inaction, street lawlessness and Congressional lawlessness in Washington D.C.? The politicians are condoning these existing and importers of lawlessness by soft pedaling and wringing of hands without ANY actual action implementing LAWs that protect US, the lawabiding citizens. We are becoming only foder for prey. Of course, someone as OLD as I am has lived their useful life (useful TAX life), and doesn’t deserve laws with teeth in them against the lawless. I am just a drag on the government run NON-existant, no money social secerity system. Thank God I can now look forward to and turn to the government take over and run socialized medicine for my medical needs as I become even more frail and dependent upon the politicians for my ‘welfare’. Over and over again, the politician REFUSE to live under the SAME laws they impose on the citizens, and use an armed police force against the citizens, but give themselves a DIFFERENT set of social security laws and benefits.

    Term limits please! ! ! ! !, on those self serving, fat chinned and lying to us Senators, like that will happen. They think we are so stupid —– because we ACT like we are stupid through NON-action, continuing in our ignorance and not applying due diligence of WATCHING the DETAILS of what they are actually DOING rather than simple believing their “words, just words” rhetoric. They say, but don’t really care what happens to our children and grandchildren. They will be long dead, and unaccountable for their actions by then. Throw the bums OUT at the next election. MAKE them accountable NOW. Could that damage our world image, or damage our citizens any MORE than having this ‘refuse to listen’ and ‘unresponsive’ congress-persons we have now? We need to PROFILE our enemies wherever they are, and take ACTION at the ballot box as soon as each election comes up. If you don’t think someone like me, that thinks independently like me (and us that do) is not considered an ENEMY of these liberals who are hell bent upon DESTROYING all individual free thinking and self reliant freedom loving individuals, you are very mistaken. You are a slave to whomever you owe money to, or to whomever owns a gun. Especially if you don’t have one or the other. Quit letting them hide behind teleprompters or prepared speeches. DEMAND accountablilty or get them OUT.

  • ralph douglas

    Jesus Ordered his “Apostles” to sell their cloaks and buys a sword…..this was in direct violation of Roman Law….in fact….the Roman law has “SWORD CONTRL”…how do you think they kept everyone in slavery?……………don’t believe me……I hate to suggest this….but read the BIBLE……LUKE CHAPTER 22…..but then you who want to worship government and its Rock stars…..don’t read it anyway….or…..as our President said in his campaign……..”small town people who hold onto their bibles and guns”……….yes we do…..and they go together………God said …”they thought themselves wise and they became as fools”………..He has the last word….sorry you unbelievers and elitists

  • ralph douglas

    Jesus Ordered his “Apostles” to sell their cloaks and buys a sword…..this was in direct violation of Roman Law….in fact….the Roman law has “SWORD CONTRL”…how do you think they kept everyone in slavery?……………don’t believe me……I hate to suggest this….but read the BIBLE……LUKE CHAPTER 22…..but then you who want to worship government and its Rock stars…..don’t read it anyway….or…..as our President said in his campaign……..”small town people who hold onto their bibles and guns”……….yes we do…..and they go together………God said …”they thought themselves wise and they became as fools”………..He has the last word….sorry you unbelievers and elitists

  • Nick

    If one person had a gun in each of the cases. Columbine where the police were scared to act because some laywer would say excessive force more of the students would be alive today. the mental cases that shoot innocent bystanders like sitting ducks would of gotten maybe two shots off. If you want to ban guns go to Switzerland, they are netural cowards. This country is letting in people that are not checked out we have an inept FBI, CIA and politicians that only think of themselfs. I can not believe my sons and nephews want to go to Italy and bring up their families, good people, good food, good weather. Do you think this country will last 800 years the Romans had it right. But they became ruthless with the Christians so GOD put an end to them. I have faith in the young people they will fix it, just get the old bastards out of Gov. Pass term limitts.

  • Cher

    Join the NRA…more the better. Without guns …we end up like every other country who had their guns removed and before you know it the citizens of those countries were “mass killed”. So many lost their lives….dictators took control. From what I can see concerning Obama and his administration is pure lunatics that have taken over our government through fraud voting and deceit along with big man’s money. Obama is walking the walk of a dictator.

  • Karl John Schubert

    Gun control doesn’t help anybody except criminals who much prefer victims that can’t shoot back. Cities like DC decades ago passed their handgun ban and required that all long guns be inoperable, yet they ended up with the highest crime rate in the entire nation despite having the strictest gun control. Is this an example of how well gun control works? This took over 30 years to change with DC v Heller last year.

    Make another gun control law and it’s just another law that criminals will ignore. Felons aren’t supposed to have guns at all. Well, here’s a shock: they do. Here in my state of Wisconsin concealed weapons are not allowed, but apparently they forgot to tell that to the criminals who carry concealed weapons. It’s illegal to steal guns or buy stolen property, yet criminals use stolen guns. Do you seriously think a felon who isn’t supposed to have any gun and is hiding a stolen gun in his waistband in violation of our state law against concealed weapons is going to be deterred by another law? Especially when he has that gun for the purpose of committing yet other crimes such as armed robbery, rape, murder and the like?

  • PATRICK

    WAKE UP AMERICA! OBAMA AND THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS ARE TAKING YOUR RIGHTS AWAY EVERY DAY!! IT’S SO SAD, I CANT BELIVE I VOTED FOR OBAMA THIS IS NOT THE CHANGE I WANTED.

  • Agnes

    Each of us has the power to pick up the phone and call our senators to protest.
    If you do not speak up, don’t whine about what happens next.
    I can tell you that women in this country are not “Armed and dangerous” but armed and trained. Gun control will only take guns from law biding citizens. Criminals will always have access to guns. Crime is so bad here that someone stole the gun out of the police chief’s car in the driveway of a gated community.
    By the way, those hicks know guns are for shooting dinner, not people, unless they trespass.

  • Krystina

    This is the appearance of a “gun toting hick” : I am 20 years old, blonde hair, 5’4″, 103 lbs- SEE WHY I WANT A CONCEALED WEAPON!? So that if a perv comes along I will put a bullet in their head. Anyone tries to rape me and they WILL be dead. So some of you liberals ask WHY we still NEED guns? We still need guns for protection, because without them we are sitting ducks ready to be robbed by the criminals who would get the guns “illegally”. Not only would there be more crime, there would be chaos. The government doesn’t want us to have guns so we are easier to take down when the new world order begins. You libs make me sick, you want petite vulneralbe women who are not strong enough to defend themselves totally defenceless so those damn rapists can go around taking virginity and mans wives’ as much as they damn want. You discust me. Classic case of caring for the criminal over the victim. Typical lib.

  • Trey Norton

    LANCE …(since you left no reply to rebute your ignorant response.) But for your information the 2nd amendment has got nothing to do with defending ourselves against crime or hunting or shooting sports for that matter. Get some history pall.
    The 2nd amendment has but one function, and that is to act as the insurance policy to the Constitution.

    (quote) “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government” – Thomas Jefferson

    And another
    (quote)”This year will go down in history, for the first time a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future.” – Adolph Hitler on his 1938 gun control

    So your anti gun retoric is old and tired been there and does not hold water. The best thing for you to do is buy a good rifle and some ammo and learn to shoot well.

    And the “hick” thing pissed me off. But not the gun toteing part that was good.

  • http://??? Don Peckat

    Just a note on micro-stamping. “IF” that were ever to become law; . . . lets say I’m at
    the range with my .223. After firing about 200 rounds, I leave. What is stopping some-
    one from picking up my brass, taking it home, and re-loading it. To stop that from happening, they would have to make the casing’s as such that they could NOT be re-
    loaded; . . . making this whole idea of micro-stamping very expensive for the average gun owner, which is probably their intent in the first place!

  • milehighguy

    Why is it all these political cowards use “executive order” to decide the will of the people based on thier beliefs. We are a country with a rule of law. If you want to change something, put it in an election and let the people decide. “By the people, for the people” is our hallmark, not “By the government, for the government”. IF the people decide to change the constitution and other laws, then that is the will of the people.

    Time and time and time again, it has been shown that law abiding citizens are not the cause for gun related violence. Our problem is lack of punishment, including the death penalty” for people that commit violent crimes. If it were up to me, Joe Arpio would be in charge of USA prisions and people that commit violent crimes would be punished or killed depending on the severity of thier crime. Don’t use gun control as a means to control lack of punishment for other crimes.

    I do not have and do not currently need a gun, but that will change in the future. We have the right to bear arms and that cannot be taken away by wossy mayors or govenors. Gun sales have sky rocketed since Obama came into power and do not see his administration having the courage to do the right thing and this issue is going to explode across the nation.

  • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

    To Darryl:

    Actually, my exact words were:

    “The only people who have anything to fear from microstamping are the criminals, really.”

    This was intended to mean that law abiding people not intent upon committing crimes with guns would have no reason to fear microstamped guns and ammo, which, as I also pointed out, are still perfectly useful in stopping an intruder – or a fascistic government.

    However, I did preface my remark by stating that, yes, microstamping is an infringement. Thus, it is the law requiring microstamping that must be prevented, in the first place. We are in agreement on this, I believe. My argument about not having anything to fear from it was simply illustrative of the point I was trying to make, which is that, even microstamped guns and ammunition will suffice if there is nothing else to use for our protection and, this Tennessee law prevents that use by Tennessee’s citizens.

  • Cathy

    Oh geez…I just heard goofball Biden say that there has to be a way to end this kind of stuff (or something to that effect). Now they’ll start using this incident as a reason for gun control. Oh yeah, they’d LOVE to take the guns away from us. That way they would be able to totally control all of us.

    This is the reason for the 2nd Amendment…to protect us from a tyrannical government, which we already have.

    I’m going to purchase a rifle and a shotgun to add to my small collection of a .22 Beretta and a .380 (both loaded with stingers and hollow points respectively). I also NEVER leave home without the .22, even when I walk my dogs. I want to be able to shoot back at some nut that’s shooting at ME.

    What part of the 2nd Amendment doesn’t our government understand, including this idiot mayor in Seattle? Sure, like the criminals are going to pay attention to the law.

    Australian politicians are “scratching their heads,” wondering why the crime rate has risen sharply since they took away guns in that country. So, I guess we’re not the only ones who have stupid politicians. :)

  • MIKE

    TO ALL OF YOU! DID YOU NOT HEAR THE REAL THOUGHT, ALL OF THE CONSITUTION EVERY THING IN THE CONSITUTION IS OUR BIRTH RIGHT
    AND SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED WHY DO YOU THINK WE HAVE THE
    SECOND AMENDMENT IT SO THE REST ARE UP HELD AND NOT INFRINGED

    PLEASE GOD HELP US ALL WE DON’T KNOW THE REAL TRUTH HERE!
    THEY ARE SPENDING OUR GREAT GREAT GREAT GRAND CHILDRENS MONEY!!

  • Dave Stiles

    As a Benefactor member of the NRA, I know that they are fully aware of the proposed Seattle ban. I’m absolutely sure that the NRA-ILA will step up with the SAF on this issue. I don’t see Nickels prevailing in light of DC vs Heller, but with the current government, who knows.

    A couple of quotes:

    This one’s by an Italian philosopher in the mid 1700′s:

    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…Such laws make
    things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” –Cesare Beccaria

    And this one:

    “The fabric of American empire ought to rest on the solid basis of THE CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE. The streams of national power ought to flow from that pure, original fountain of all legitimate authority.”

    Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 22, December 14, 1787

    There has never been a more critical time in our history as a country. Now, more than ever before, is the time to stand up for our rights and freedoms and remind the government that it is the servant of the people. The people are NOT the servants of the government.

    Be vigilant. Be informed. Be active in defense of your freedom.

  • lee

    Hello BOB,
    I am writing you to let you know as long as there is a liberal with whacked out thoughts we will have these4 stupid attacks on the 2nd amendment rights. Sadly they just will not wise up and read the bill of rights and stop putting crap into it than what there is. Join the tea party and join the 912 project help out OK?

  • Bob Livingston

    I think that the Second Amendment Foundation has a constitutional right to challenge the Mayor of Seattle to ban guns on city property.

    At any rate Mayor Nickels should not be able to ban guns by executive order. Broader authority is needed via the City Council.

    It is high time that the right to own guns via the Second Amendment to the Constitution become a publicly debated issue.

    • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

      Bob, according to the Second Amendment, NO ONE has any such “authority.” Period. It’s quite clear:

      “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    • fred

      With all due respect Bob a city counsel has no constitutional authority
      either as A LEGAL AUTHORITY, to ban handguns. If any unit of government
      anywhere in any way attempts to impair or denigrate this inalienable right
      such law, ordinance, or any executive order must be challenged in court
      and set aside. That is what the Judicial branch of government was established
      for, to void unconstitutional laws or decrees.

      WE EITHER HAVE RIGHTS ENDOWED TO US BY OUR CREATOR OR
      WE DON’T. THE SECOND AMENDMENT MERELY STATES A PREEXISTING
      RIGHT. THE MESSAGE TO GOVERNMENT IS DON’T MESS WITH OUR RIGHTS. If the courts will not protect our rights then our system of judicial
      review has failed and I am here to tell you now that for the most part, it has
      AND THE CONSTITUTION IS NOW HANGING BY A THREAD.
      The question is WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT, AND HOW?
      Fred

  • http://www.engineeredcontrol.com Harald

    Hello Americans
    The first thing I did when I came to the United States – still the best country on GODs earth, besides all the BS the government has done to screw it – I bought a book with the constitution of the United States. The second was joining the NRA. Because I knew since many years living under communistic dictatorship and later under soft washed socialism, you need both to keep the PEOPLE on power. Your constitution is a unique document, written by your founding fathers with the experience that PEOPLE can’t stand up against a bone crushing government without being armed. The only fear the Transnationals really have – who would rather today than tomorrow put America under the suzerainty of a global government – is that we the PEOPLE armed and well-fortified would chase them out of the country. In the same way the forefathers did with the English.

    • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

      Hi, Harald. With all due respect, I would urge you to read America’s original constitution, the Articles of Confederation, which is by far superior to the document we’ve lived under since 1787. The Articles were the basis for the constitutional republic, not the Constitution you know.

      http://www.usconstitution.net/constconart.html

  • James

    One of the biggest problems I see is that people look at the second amendment as giving us the right to bear arms. It does no such thing. The constitution merely articulates that which is already ours and FORBIDS the government from taking it away. What I mean by that which is already ours is that we have these rights by the mere fact that we exist. Our rights are not given to us by the constitution or government we are born with them. The minute you think from the point of view that the constitution or government give us these rights, you then give them the power to take them away! Every law passed infringing our birthright of owning firearms is unconstitutional and illegal. If you sit down and really read the constitution it is crystal clear how our forefathers meant this country to be. Sadly we have drifted far from our original path.

    Just my 2 cents worth……………

    • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

      Exactly, James. The Second Amendment acknowledges an existing, inalienable right and is there to guarantee it that it will not be usurped by clearly stating that

      “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

      I’m 56 and, by the time I was ten I understood this. I am amazed and disgusted that most Americans don’t. But then, most can’t even read anymore, so I shouldn’t be surprised.

  • Joe Hooker

    Just so you’ll understand. I can hardly wait until the govt. does outlaw firearms completely!!
    Why?
    Because guns are old technology. While we Americans have always been so incredibly inventive, I’m SURE that within 1 week, we’d have something much better & far more advanced!!!!!
    Joe

    • Sicktoad

      Proven technology, let me ask you this Joe, how old is the revolver? I’m CCW qualified and have several automatic pistols, however my .357 pistol which is a revolver is the most reliable and accurate weapon that I own. Unless they come out with a light saber in the near future I don’t see weapons likes these going away soon.

      • Joe Hooker

        Right now, I much prefer my .45 Colt, SAA Colt revolver to any other firearm at all. Still, if Archemedis could build a laser that burned up ships in the water way back in the B.C. days. Just think what we modern day Americans could come up with if all our other means of self defense were taken away!!
        Joe

  • Tom Fee

    I’ve always been amazed at how our legislators totally ignore the increase in crime that countries suffer when they ban guns. It’s as though those other countries don’t exist! Our right to bear arms is specifically to prevent the corruption that’s going on now in our government. How can a president become a dictator if we’re all armed? When they disarm us, we become slaves, NOT citizens.

    • rpm2hi

      You’re right on target Tom. Interesting how the politicians who wish to have more gun control are the same ones that want higher taxes and a huge, monolithic government controlling us? Could this be just a coincidence?

      The one item I disagree on is the president wanting to be a dictator. I believe it’s more like congress and the president merging into a Politburo…

    • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

      You’ve got it, Tom. To that, I would add that it is our Federalist Constitution of 1787 that laid the groundwork for what is happening now. The original constitution was the Articles of Confederation (which most Americans today know little about, if they’ve even heard of it at all), which was the basis for our constitutional republic, in the first place, for a scant decade before it was replaced by the Constitution we know today. The Federalists (Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and others) were proponents of the Constitution, as well as its principle authors. Unfortunately, they were also agents of the Rothschilds of London, who had an agenda to subvert the young United States of America and to bring it under their own domination via the control of its currency. The Articles of Confederation would have prevented this because, among its several superior aspects, it provided that all executive power was in the congress; there was no President of the United States. The Congress was, in turn, directly elected by and answerable to the people. Secondly, and most importantly, the Articles provided that the thirteen original states shall each coin their own money, thus deliberately avoiding the possibility of a central bank being formed (which would issue a single currency. Sound familiar?). The Anti-Federalists, who opposed the eradication of the Articles and their replacement by the Constitution, fought vigorously against the Federalists and, although the Federalists won their way in the end, the Anti-Federalists managed to get the Bill of Rights and the first ten amendments tacked on to protect their descendants from tyranny. We have them to thank for our rights, but, unfortunately, since history has been written by the victors, we unknowingly celebrate the Federalists as our “founders” and the Constitution is worshipped, even though it has been the basis for the tyranny that has evolved since its ratification in 1787.

  • Donna Bell

    You don’t sound like a “former democrat”. Just because Gary posts a comment doesn’t mean he isn’t doing other things. Are you the only one who can sit at your computer. Funny how the right can criticize when they don’t have all the facts.

    • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

      Thanks, Donna, but one should realize that this isn’t about “left” and “right,” which are phony labels used to distract us and keep us fighting against each other instead of going after the real perpetrators, who are the international banking cartel that effectively seized control of our nation in 1913, via the illegal establishment of the Federal Reserve – a private bank owned by the international banking cartel. Why do you think Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner constantly says “your government,” as opposed to “our government? His allegiance is not to the United States or the people of America, it is to the international bankers who are shareholders in Fed. To learn more, I recommend you watch The Money Masters, which can be found on Google Video or You Tube. It’s very long, but well worth seeing and when you’ve watched it, you’ll have the equivalent of a masters degree in the true history of the world.

      • gwinf

        Well said! It is about agreeing that we have moved away from the correct path and need to move back onto it. I do not currently own a gun, but I believe in the Constitution and will fight for your right to own one. I am becomeing more and more nervous about the current situation. As such, I have decided to join with others with whom I can, for the most part, agree with. We do not have to agree in all things, we only need to find a common ground. That is where the secret lies. I have decided that action must be taken and have joined the912project.com to increase the impact of my beliefs by helping to create a group that shares a majority of my beliefs. Join us, there is great strength in numbers! help us achieve a balance in government again.

      • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

        Thank you. Yes, and that common ground is that we are all Americans.

        I’ve heard of the 912 Project. I tend to not be a group joiner, by nature, and I have found that some of the groups and individuals who appear to be “leading” the 9/11 Truth Movement and the Patriot Movement are, at best, questionable, while others are establishment coadjutors. But, I will look into it. Thanks. Meanwhile, have you heard of Warn the People? http://www.warnthepeople.org

  • Charles R. Sharbel

    Gary is 100% correct! Research of all the legislation having to do with the Second Amendment will reveal the need to fight hard and long against the infringement of this important component of our Constitution. Just look at history. The first thing Lenin did in Russia was to disarm the general population…same in Germany and Italy in the 1930s and 40s. So the solution is to take the fight right to those who would disarm us taking away our ability to take up arms against the tyranny that is building in Washington right now under our very noses.

    • Duane

      Gary and Charles are so right. If we fail to learn from history, we are deemed to repeat it. Study Germany, Italy, Russia, (also look at Cuba, Korea, China) they first thing an evil government does is take away our right to defend themselves. We must fight anyone that try to take away this right as outlined in the 2nd amendment.

  • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

    Why isn’t the Second Amendment Foundation calling for the full and immediate REPEAL of all existing gun laws, as well as the cessation of any new ones? THAT would be defending the Second Amendment. Doing anything less is allowing its infringement to continue unabated. For seventy-five years, the Second Amendment has been infringed and not one so-called “gun rights” organization, including SAF and the NRA, have demanded the repeal of the laws that stand in direct and blatant violation of the Second Amendment. The gun-owning public has been so brainwashed with propaganda from these organizations they actually believe that passing still more laws is somehow “protecting” the Second Amendment. You don’t protect it by ignoring its infringement and adding to that infringement by asking government permission to have a little bit of your freedom back.

    • Former_Democrat

      Gary, why haven’t you done the same thing you are demanding the SAF to do? Is it because, maybe, time, money and other resources? You are a typical whiner who expects people do things for them instead of standing up and doing it yourself. You are what is wrong with this nation. You complain about others not doing enough while you sit back and do nothing. You are a hypocrite of the largest kind. Shut off your computer and do something yourself, otherwise you are turning into something as bad as the liberal whiners.

      • fred

        Mr anonymous, you don’t even have the guts to give your name in
        replying to a very good post from one who has obviously done his
        homework. We simply do not need any laws except the Second Amendment.
        That amendment reflects the inalienable right we all have as members of
        society born with that right. No legislature can or should interfere with
        any of our rights unless they are used to injure others and that is what our
        courts are for. Perhaps what each legislature should do is to reaffirm by
        Resolution what I have just stated and at the same time acknowledge their
        previous errors in attempting to legislate anything on this subject.
        Any previous gun laws which in effect limit our right to use a gun as our right
        should be declared null and void by our courts recognising that you don’t
        mess with our rights, you enforce them.
        Fred

      • Lance

        Why do all the gun toting hicks believe we still “NEED” guns, and I capitalized that for a very specific reason. Your only justification is you need it for “defending myself”, but in all honesty you would be much safer if all guns were illegal. The United States is fourth in the WORLD in homicides and its only because we are one of two, non third world countries that allow its general citizenship to own an infinite supply of weapons with no restrictions and very little in the way registration to know who even has guns. Check the statistics and see for yourself gun homicides comprise more than 85% of all murders, and please keep the stupid “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” quotes to yourself. If you had to stab or beat someone to death with a knife or a bat, you would immediately cut the murder rates in this country by 80%. There would still be those few people who would kill someone but, for the most part, the world is comprised of soft cowardly people who kill with guns because its easy and requires no effort. Pull a trigger and bang its over. Oh there is one thing you need a gun for and that’s hunting, I have no desire to take away someone ability to feed themselves, but no high powered rifles, you can have muzzleloaders. If you want to shoot you have to load the powder, the wadding and the shot. Basically it eliminates the weapon from being used in mass murders like we saw today in binghamton ny, where some coward went in and killed 15 people with two handguns then killed himself. I would love to hear a coherent response from all the NRA wacks whose only argument is the 2nd Amendment says I have the right. Its an amendment, which by very definition is made to be amended itself.

      • Bill Nunnery

        All totalitarian governments since the beginning of recorded history have had one thing in common: the government first disarms their law abiding citizens before taking absolute power. Lance argues that the mass murder in Binghamton would not have occurred if guns had been outlawed. I argue that if those that were senselessly murdered had concealed carry permits the toll would have been much less. In fact if anything will deter a nut like that it would be the fear of an armed citizenry. It is obvious that law enforcement is powerless to stop these types of crimes. They only come in after disaster strikes. Lance, do you really believe that criminals will turn in their guns just because they are illegal. Until recently it was illegal to own a gun in Washington, DC, which has the highest gun related homicide rate in the US.

      • LAConfidential

        Lance -
        I apologize for your lack of confidence in your own ability to take charge of your destiny, because you are too ignorant to do it yourself.

        The first 10 amendments are more than just amendments. Patrick Henry’s buy-off for the constitution was to make these specific amendments special enough to be referred to as the BILL OF RIGHTS. There is no room for arguing the facts where the creation of this government was concerned. The centralized banks did NOT want an independent nation to become successful without having a central bank to charge interest (as a form of illegal taxation in addition to making millions for themselves – then billions – and now TRILLIONS)

        The second amendment goes hand in hand with the preamble to the declaration of independence. You should read these documents and actually put these words into the context they were meant to be rather than just reading the words and acting as though you are so totally removed from the possibility of your country’s leaders selling you out.

        It doesn’t take a hick to own and be confident in his/her ownership of a firearm. If you are too scared – then so be it. That does not allow you and your kind to create legislation that will enable ALL of us to become slaves of the new world order. If becoming a scared little slave is your thing, then go on about your business, quit complaining, and go get your RFID chip implanted so you can be a good little slave. You might want to brush up on your lines – repeat after me…”I love big brother. Big brother is my friend”

        Have a great day!

      • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

        I believe I just did “do something about it,” by posting my message here. My mission in doing so is to raise the level of awareness about this fact and to maybe wake up a few of you who continually go along with whatever you hear and read, like sheep. It is because of people blindly following the NRA and other such organizations that nothing is being done about the problem. I am attempting, in my own small way – because I am only one individual – to awaken gun owners to the facts, in hopes that, in time, there will be enough of us who know that a real gun rights organization might be formed to counteract the status quo. Now, what are you doing here, besides making personal attacks and not addressing what I said at all?

    • Steve

      You couldn’t have spoken more truth than what you have. All the gun laws and restrictions on the private ownership of firearms since our countries founding are unconstitutional. The United States Constitution isn’t a living, breathing, ever changing document. Unless you amend it, it should always remain as it was written. This is why our founders made it so difficult to amend it, requiring 2/3 of the states to ratify any amendment to the constitution. While the NRA and SAF have great intentions, they are fighting the wrong battle. They should be fighting to win the war, not to win another battle. It is amazing to me how so few U.S. citizens are aware of how many of their constitutional rights have been trampled on and taken from them. We have become the ignorant masses that want nothing but to survive, rather than live how God and our founders intended us to live. Good point that I have never heard anyone else bring up.

      • http://www.thefreezone.garyrea.com Gary

        But do the NRA and SAF and other such organization really have “great intentions,” or are they just Establishment coadjutors, there to misdirect the energies of those who sincerely care about our fundamental right to self-defense? You see, this is part of why and how the NRA gets away with what it has been doing for seventy-five years. By making the pretense of “defending” the Second Amendment, they derive huge support from a gullible public who don’t have enough discernment to look beyond the headlines and the sound bites. How many people, for example, are aware that Alabama’s H.B. 225 (now law), which was publicized as a bill that would protect Alabama gun owners from gun confiscations in an “emergency” actually facilitates the confiscation? If you were among the vast majority who didn’t bother to read beyond the hype – who didn’t bother to read the actual text of the law, you would have no idea that is says Alabama residents’ gun can be confiscated “if the officer reasonably believes that it is immediately necessary for the protection of the officer or another individual.” In other words, if the cops come to your door (probably to seize weapons in the first place, if it’s an “emergency”), all they have to do is take your guns and then claim they did it because they “felt threatened” by the fact that you were armed. Mississippi has recently passed an almost identically worded bill, and there are other states passing similar laws – all of them at the same time.

        Tennessee has passed a recent law that would supposedly ban microstamping of guns and ammo in Tennessee. Sounds great, if that’s all you know about it, right? That’s exactly how it was publicized before being passed. This bill, along with the two mentioned above, had the full support of several “gun rights” organizations, including the NRA. But, if you examine the actual bill itself, you’ll find that it bans the sale of microstamped guns and ammo in Tennessee. Now, that might not sink in right away, unless you have enough discernment to consider that the gun grabbers’ long-term agenda is to have all new guns and ammo microstamped. If and when this happens, anyone who wants to buy a new gun or ammo in Tennessee won’t find any on the store shelves to buy, because they’ll all be banned. Pretty clever ploy, eh? Another thing most will not realize is that, while microstamping is being promoted by the NRA as an infringement of the Second Amendment (and, to be sure, it is), the fact remains that microstamped guns can still be fired and microstamped ammo can still be used to take out an attacker. The only people who have anything to fear from microstamping are the criminals, really. Yes, it’s possible someone could be framed for a crime via the use of evidence consisting of a microstamped bullet and/or gun, but how often would that occur? The point is, Tennessee’s legislature voted to effectively disarm its own citizens. Interestingly enough, like most of the states “declaring sovereignty” right now, Tennessee is among those doing so and, at the same time, passing laws that are in direct contradiction to a declaration of sovereignty.

        Then there is Montana, which recently passed H.B. 246, a bill that would “protect” gun Montana gun owners from any new Federal laws that infringe the Second Amendment. Sounds great, on the surface, doesn’t it? But, again, if you bother to read the actual law, it plainly states that only those who own guns and ammo made in Montana will be protected from these new federal laws. I did some research into how many gun and ammo manufacturers there are in Montana and found only two manufacturers of hunting rifles (not suited to use as self-defense or combat weapons, according to most military and police weapons experts) and the two or three ammo manufacturers in the state are only small volume reloaders. Besides this, the fact is, like everywhere else, most Montana gun owners have guns and ammunition made elsewhere, including foreign countries. So, who in Montana will really be “protected” by H.B. 246?

        These are but a few examples of what is going on behind our backs, folks. Wake up and take a very close look into what your state has been up to. You can find the full text of all federal laws going through the Congress at http://www.govtrack.us and each state has a website where you can find similar information about bills going through your state legislature.

        I’ve spent two years researching all this and much, much more about about what our government is up to. I’m a freelance investigative writer. It’s what I do. I also maintain a website of my own about various aspects of the New World Order (you may have heard about it, by now) and I do a weekly podcast on the same. So, Mr. Former Democrat might want to re-evaluate his response to my first post here.

      • Darryl

        Hi Gary,

        Good exchanges of your thoughts, which I am in agreement with. I just wanted to point out to you, though, that you ignored your own argument (pretense of defense – for confiscation purposes) in arguing that “the only people who are afraid of microstamping are the criminals”.

        “Microstamping” is a form of registration for confiscation. Criminals will always be able to secure “stamped” brass to point a finger at, perhaps, even you. Criminals will always be able to steal your microstamped weapon to commit their crime with. Again, both scenarios will lead the law to your door. You best fear that fact. By the way, once the law is at your door over a “weapon” they may feel it their duty to relieve your home of your other weapons till all is sorted out (refer to your article – HB 225 – Alabama). Please, do not believe government reasoning when they try to lure you into a lull over their tactics of incremental advances against your freedom and Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

        I’m in law enforcement and I have a real healthy fear of any type of recordkeeping as they all serve for purposes of confiscation. Cling to your freedom while you still have it. Resist any efforts that infringe upon it!

      • s c mailen, jr.

        Gary, you are right to have grave doubts about any behavior that would interfere with the Second Amendment. If there was any practical way we could get straight answers from Congress, Americans would understand WHY the Founding Fathers gave us the Second Amendment and WHY it is so precious. Those in Congress who hate the Second Amendment should have been born about 235 years ago, when they would have met their fate as enemy soldiers or spies. These people hate freedom, and they have no use for anyone who wants to be free.

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